**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 17 02:59:57 2009 Jun 17 03:07:41 my images are always missing the /etc/init.d/rc* files Jun 17 03:07:49 any ideas how to fix this? Jun 17 03:41:28 fredrin: hah, claro - do i need to say more ? ;-) Jun 17 03:41:47 wpwrak: nope :) Jun 17 03:41:55 claro es simple, not Jun 17 03:42:38 fredrin: before, they called themselves CTI. i guess they had ruined that name well enough that they had to change it ... Jun 17 03:42:56 wpwrak: i know, the gprs settings are for CTI Jun 17 03:43:18 where in buenos aires do you live? Jun 17 03:43:44 fredrin: in the center, near pza. libertad Jun 17 03:44:02 ah, i know more or less, i stay in almagro Jun 17 03:44:36 DocScrutinizer: Wolfgang just took off a few minutes ago Jun 17 03:45:15 fredrin: should be a nice area, too. a friend of mine moved there a few weeks ago, and she loves it Jun 17 03:45:45 yeah, more argentinians living, middle class Jun 17 03:47:41 wpwrak: you know how to do the buzz fix? Jun 17 03:48:04 DocScrutinizer called me from germany to test, i need a buzz fix, hehe Jun 17 03:48:16 fredrin: in general terms, yes. i've never actually done it, though Jun 17 03:48:43 hmm, but you got the tools? Jun 17 03:49:31 fredrin: yup, i have a soldering iron, although i don't sharpen it, like paul suggests :) Jun 17 03:52:01 wpwrak: i'm sure you have decent tools already, no need to sharpen anything :) Jun 17 03:52:48 * wpwrak wonders how precise r4303 has to be ... Jun 17 03:53:31 PaulFertser: yeah, with modern tips, they warn quite strongly against filing off the surface coating :) Jun 17 03:54:37 PaulFertser: though mine has reached that age where a replacement wouldn't be such a bad idea ... always needs a few more degrees to get the job done Jun 17 03:55:03 r4303? Jun 17 03:55:39 fredrin: the resistor that needs to be added for the buzz fix Jun 17 03:56:27 fredrin: for 0402, i only have the E1 scale :) Jun 17 03:56:33 DocScrutinizer: what don't you like about digital tv? Jun 17 03:59:13 would be nice to have the buzz fix, but i go back to norway on friday, got things to do Jun 17 04:03:31 fredrin: i just looked through my component stock. a capacitor i have, 100 uF 6.3 V tantalum. a bit overkill for the buzz fix, but it should fit. for the resistor, all i have in 0402 size are 1 k or 10 k, no 2.2 k. Jun 17 04:05:09 so it wont work? Jun 17 04:05:18 * fredrin is a bit ignorant about the buzz problem Jun 17 04:06:12 what will happen if i use a 10k resistor? Jun 17 04:07:45 fredrin: that's what i'm curious about too :) Jun 17 04:07:55 lol Jun 17 04:08:38 it's one way to find out.... Jun 17 04:08:52 wpwrak: 1k should be ok Jun 17 04:09:04 yup Jun 17 04:13:04 yes? Jun 17 04:15:01 cool, so i have the parts. the cap is huge, but it should fit. at lest in theory :) Jun 17 04:16:00 theory :) Jun 17 04:17:04 but i think my Neo will survive Jun 17 04:18:10 fredrin: the one joerg used has only about half the volume. same capacity, but different voltage rating. his also seems to be ceramic (?) while mine is tantalum. cer is a bit more compact. Jun 17 04:19:40 but if it fits it fits Jun 17 04:21:37 fredrin: yeah. the thing i'd be mainly worried about is the clearance to the plastic case. if it touches the plastic, vibrations or shock may tear it off. Jun 17 04:22:24 seal it with some glue? Jun 17 04:24:25 fredrin: naw, probably doesn't help. besides, super-glue and soldering don't go along well. and i don't have the sort of glue they use for smt Jun 17 04:25:21 k Jun 17 04:26:42 then i don't know Jun 17 04:27:12 fredrin: well, we can try. you're able to reproduce the buzz easily, so that there's a way to control the result ? Jun 17 04:27:50 people complain about my phone, DocScrutinizer heard it, we can call him to verify Jun 17 04:27:52 fredrin: (i didn't observe it on those of my devices that i tried) Jun 17 04:28:04 fredrin: ah, good :) Jun 17 04:29:09 wpwrak: how's your timezone? :) Jun 17 04:30:26 you follow argentinian sleeping schedule? Jun 17 04:30:28 fredrin: hmm, i think it would have to be this afternoon. tomorrow, constructions workers may show up to tear up my apartment Jun 17 04:31:01 fredrin: naw, i tend to be even more nocturnal than the argentines. so if i'm up in the early morning, then that's because i didn't go to sleep yet :) Jun 17 04:31:04 eh? Jun 17 04:31:25 hehe, i know Jun 17 04:31:50 i got the same schedule Jun 17 04:32:07 this afternoon, like that is tomorrow or what? not it's like 01:32 Jun 17 04:32:13 now Jun 17 04:32:17 fredrin: there are some repairs that need to be done, some ceiling damage after a broken pipe. and they'll have to redo a pretty large part of my living room, and will also fix a few more things. so my place will looks quite nasty for the next two weeks or so Jun 17 04:33:06 fredrin: yeha, today's afternoon == ~12 hours from now :) Jun 17 04:33:41 k, then i have to get up early.... like 12:00 Jun 17 04:33:42 haha Jun 17 04:34:14 later is good as well :) Jun 17 04:34:58 :) Jun 17 04:35:22 lets do it, vamos Jun 17 04:37:51 fredrin: so, what hour ? for me, anything that's not earlier than 14h is good Jun 17 04:38:55 what fits you the best, i'll just jump into a taxi Jun 17 04:40:08 15h then ? location is here www.almesberger.net/contact.html Jun 17 04:40:40 bueno dale Jun 17 04:41:20 i know more or less it is now Jun 17 04:41:24 i can even take the subte Jun 17 04:42:51 fredrin: yup, get our at tribunaes and then head north along talcahuano Jun 17 04:44:27 i got the Neo GPS too and i've been 1.5 years more or less here in Buenos Aires Jun 17 04:44:35 i'll ping first here Jun 17 04:44:43 fredrin: since you have a cell phone, you can give me a ring in case i don't hear the doorbell. (it's a little faint) Jun 17 04:45:06 sure Jun 17 04:45:06 you have osm installed ? Jun 17 04:45:29 just flashed paroli T5 so i need to install stuff Jun 17 04:46:54 i'll find my way Jun 17 04:48:12 fredrin: yeah, it's not too hard to find :) Jun 17 05:53:16 morning Jun 17 07:51:15 SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-settings * r72690f7cf31c 10/ (TODO shr_settings_modules/shr_battery.py): Little cleanup. Jun 17 07:53:42 lindi-: are you here? Jun 17 07:53:45 dos1, I hate you :P Jun 17 07:54:02 budfive_: partly Jun 17 07:54:36 budfive_: (at work now) Jun 17 07:54:37 lindi-: looked at https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2295 any more? Jun 17 07:54:49 lindi-: I just looked at it for a bit, and have one data point Jun 17 07:55:24 budfive_: aha, please add :) Jun 17 07:55:37 after you suspend and resume, am I right in assuming that your GSM dies also? Jun 17 07:55:51 budfive_: did not test, probably it affects both serial ports yes Jun 17 07:56:21 I ran a very quick test (didn't have time for a lot), and it looks like the serial registers in general are hosed Jun 17 07:56:41 mrmoku: you don't have to rebuild :P Jun 17 07:56:56 mrmoku: that's just little whitespaces cleanup Jun 17 07:57:31 lindi-: I wrote a quick thing to peek in /dev/mem. Before the suspend, 0x5000000 contains 0x3. This corresponds to the ULCON0 register, and according to the docs indicates 8N1 serial settings Jun 17 07:57:38 mrmoku: of course only if you rebuild before ;) Jun 17 07:58:18 lindi-: I take this to mean that I'm correctly reading ULCON0, since 8N1 makes lots of sense. Suspend/resume makes the same registers read garbage Jun 17 07:58:22 dos1, k :) Jun 17 07:58:44 dos1, I synced it to the feed just 30s before I saw your commit :P Jun 17 07:59:31 lindi-: I wanted to know if your gsm dies to confirm this. Anyway, I'll look at it a bit later. Do you want my little program that pokes /dev/mem? Jun 17 08:00:19 lindi-: The simple action of reading it with open,seek,read doesn't work for some reason (any insight appreciated). But if you mmap it, it works. Jun 17 08:13:45 mrmoku: rebuild intone. it's broken with new EFLSRC Jun 17 08:23:28 dos1, hmm... there might be other stuff broken too... somehow it does not rebuild all depending packages on EFL update :( Jun 17 08:24:52 * mrmoku wonders what would be the correct thing to do for that problem... Jun 17 08:25:33 dos1, just rebuilding is not enough... because it needs bumping the PR, no? Jun 17 08:25:38 otherwise it won't update Jun 17 08:26:12 mrmoku: for new image rebuilding is enough, for upgrading also bumping PR, yep :x Jun 17 08:27:49 which is a pain... to do manually Jun 17 08:36:41 dos1, ebrainy, enotes, intone, libframeworkd-phonegui-efl*, libeflvala, shr-config... something else? Jun 17 08:37:21 hi there Jun 17 08:37:27 and that's just the packages depending on elementary Jun 17 08:40:42 budfive_: thanks, i'll write this down to my todo list Jun 17 08:41:45 Ainulindale, ping Jun 17 08:42:19 mrmoku: omoney? Jun 17 08:42:42 mrmoku: not only elementary - e libraries at all Jun 17 08:43:46 dos1, as I said... and that's only the ones depending on elementary Jun 17 08:44:25 I need some way to get a list of packages I have to bump the PR for... and that automatically Jun 17 08:46:40 ok. lets check if my patch now works as it ment to be Jun 17 08:48:31 mrmoku: pong Jun 17 08:48:42 dos1: for the conf file I'm still waiting for what you settings guys want Jun 17 08:49:03 mrmoku: not only elementary - e libraries at alle for now :P Jun 17 08:49:03 mrmoku: correct thing for that would be to make them depend on EFL_SRCREV Jun 17 08:49:43 The way I did with e-wm stuff in themes Jun 17 08:50:37 mrmoku: and there's no other proper way but a specific tool for that Jun 17 08:50:41 See gentoo and revdep-rebuild Jun 17 08:53:03 Ainulindale, hmm, to make them depend on EFL_SRCREV would be highly preferred by me (lazy bastard) :P Jun 17 08:53:26 we should discuss that with nytowl... and maybe some other OE folks... Jun 17 08:53:27 And I quite agree with you Jun 17 08:53:44 Well we can do that for our core stuff for now anyways Jun 17 08:54:09 yeah... but it will make cherry-picking stuff around more dificult Jun 17 08:54:25 we should try to find a 'common' solution for that problem Jun 17 08:54:47 Well there is none Jun 17 08:54:49 None practical at least Jun 17 08:55:07 I think it should depend on EFL_SRCREV, it's quick, painless, and somehow logical Jun 17 08:55:26 ok, will take a look at what you did for the e-wm config then... Jun 17 08:55:33 first 5 min fresh air though ;) Jun 17 08:55:58 budfive_: btw, you better send that info to the bug report so that others can wonder about it tii Jun 17 08:56:01 too Jun 17 08:56:16 mrmoku: fresh smoky air ? Jun 17 09:03:33 mrmoku: http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2008-June/005494.html Jun 17 09:07:37 Ainulindale, hmm BB_STAMP_POLICY... though it won't solve the problem for updates Jun 17 09:07:47 That was what I was asking about in #oe Jun 17 09:17:03 Ainulindale, ok, so I try to catch all packages depending on e and add EFL_SRCREV to PV? Jun 17 09:25:45 mrmoku: Well two solutions Jun 17 09:25:51 Three in fact Jun 17 09:26:01 1) We do that, add EFL_SRCREV to PV or something similar Jun 17 09:26:20 2) We do the whitelist stuff and build an update script Jun 17 09:26:34 3) We eventually patch opkg to handle post_install stuff and modify the e recipe Jun 17 09:26:53 (which will queue stuff to reinstall packages depending on it) Jun 17 09:28:30 mrmoku: I already now how to patch opkg in order to handle that Jun 17 09:28:32 +k Jun 17 09:29:06 mrmoku: I'd say, for now, we should do 2, it's the quickest way Jun 17 09:34:51 Ainulindale, what do I have to do for 2? Jun 17 09:36:06 Well if you're willing to do it, then it's the same structure such as the former update script Jun 17 09:36:18 And whitelist to rebuild packages Jun 17 09:36:20 I'm looking for that Jun 17 09:37:43 Hmmm no info on BB_STAMP_POLICY locally Jun 17 09:37:51 Could you ask on #oe please? I'm a bit busy at the moment :-/ Jun 17 09:47:06 Ainulindale, me too busy... and lunchtime now... will check after lunch Jun 17 09:49:26 mrmoku: no problem Jun 17 09:49:32 k, later Jun 17 10:33:08 anybody an idea why make image works well, but "bitbake -c compile e-wm" complains about "ERROR: Please set the 'PERSISTENT_DIR' or 'CACHE' variable."? Jun 17 11:32:20 Ainulindale, I'm writing a small script now... to gather the packages depending on efl stuff... Jun 17 12:07:45 is there a sms module for shr? Jun 17 12:08:08 SMS Module? You mean something to write SMSes? Jun 17 12:08:13 no Jun 17 12:08:31 a module i can place e.g. in a shelf Jun 17 12:08:38 no there isn't Jun 17 12:08:48 which shows me 2/12 messages unread Jun 17 12:09:24 i wrote a small patch which pops up the gadgets with the aux button Jun 17 12:09:46 and gadgets are only placed on the top layer Jun 17 12:19:20 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfc1ede3994bf 10/framework/objectquery.py: objectquery: use dbuscache.dbusInterfaceForObjectWithInterface Jun 17 12:19:22 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r4993a0cff2a0 10/framework/resource.py: resource: add exception logger Jun 17 12:19:22 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra4ef5d51eb7d 10/framework/frameworkd: frameworkd: don't fail if loophole can't be launched Jun 17 12:30:31 playya: is patch needed? i think it can be set from key bindings... Jun 17 12:30:51 moin Jun 17 12:31:18 dos1|school, yes you can set it Jun 17 12:31:41 but its only changing one line to change the default keybinding Jun 17 12:32:09 but the important thing is the default on top option Jun 17 12:32:29 or you'll have the module under illume Jun 17 12:32:34 moin DocScrutinizer Jun 17 12:32:44 oh, right Jun 17 12:35:00 now i need to know where to find the config for the modules Jun 17 12:40:22 dos1|school, any ideas where they are located? Jun 17 12:50:10 playya: sounds damn useful. Considered to keep it generic in a way so user can change the set of gadgets shown? Jun 17 12:50:37 yes Jun 17 12:50:48 its using the normal add action Jun 17 12:51:15 but maybe this should be rewritten for illume Jun 17 12:51:40 because you can only resize/move them after a right klick Jun 17 12:52:25 max_posedon: didn't you tell we get RMB eventually? :-) Jun 17 12:52:38 RMB emu that is Jun 17 12:54:35 mrmoku: thanks again for the nice toolbox :-) Jun 17 12:55:34 * DocScrutinizer needs to think about a different MOTD than "I *HATE* BUSYBOX" now ;-D Jun 17 12:57:38 DocMobilizer1, Xorg+xf86-video-glamo + xf86-input-tslib Jun 17 12:57:47 x86-input-tslib now has RMB emulation Jun 17 12:57:59 mrmoku: considered to consolidate coreutils, bash, less et al, to form a convenient single package e.g. named antibusy or true-linux-ressurection or geeks-delight? Jun 17 12:58:22 this patch may be can't be included in Xglamo Jun 17 12:58:33 DocScrutinizer, so, yes, it was I, but... Jun 17 13:00:00 DocScrutinizer, not a good idea. remember what happend when ubuntu switched to dash instead of bash? Jun 17 13:00:29 DocScrutinizer, hmm... strange thing is... I did nothing :) Jun 17 13:00:46 I built a list of packages needed to replace busybox Jun 17 13:00:53 but did not build anything on the buildhost Jun 17 13:00:54 playya: hmmooh Jun 17 13:01:00 errks Jun 17 13:01:04 so the packages must have been already there for a while :P Jun 17 13:01:05 mrmoku: ooh Jun 17 13:01:32 * mrmoku takes beers anyway though ;) Jun 17 13:01:42 ))) Jun 17 13:02:01 max_posedon: yes, you get a beer too ;-) Jun 17 13:02:18 DocScrutinizer, you remember, I don't drink bear) Jun 17 13:02:24 DocScrutinizer, what I'm wanting to do is to write a script that does the replacement Jun 17 13:02:32 (any kind of alcohol too) Jun 17 13:02:53 mrmoku, yep, will be nice Jun 17 13:03:31 but... now, I most interested in xf86-* instead Xglamo Jun 17 13:03:42 max_posedon: so chose a clubmate or any beverage of your choice then ;-D Jun 17 13:04:42 DocScrutinizer, let it be orange juice, but no idear when you can give it to me. Jun 17 13:04:54 at f9N'10 maybe) Jun 17 13:05:40 DocScrutinizer, better may be if you explain me once more, how to have good sound with my Synhaizer HD555 Jun 17 13:06:31 max_posedon: on FR? ;-) Jun 17 13:07:00 yes Jun 17 13:07:04 you'll need C4110/11 bassboost-fix Jun 17 13:07:37 any link with short description? Jun 17 13:07:47 or this fix will still doesn't do the best Jun 17 13:08:01 and I need external mobile amplifier Jun 17 13:08:02 tracfeed: Ticket #523 (Notifier app not launched when X starts) created Jun 17 13:08:20 because on my Solo3 sound is good) Jun 17 13:09:16 max_posedon: nah, WM8753 is a rather decent amp for that purpose. You need to do the bassfix like e.g. PaulFertser described it, and you need to short R4405/7 Jun 17 13:10:24 (why I forgot about this on F9N?!) Jun 17 13:10:28 ok, thanks Jun 17 13:10:35 maybe remove U4401 ;-) Jun 17 13:11:25 hm.. what it will break? Jun 17 13:11:32 I'm sure it will break smth Jun 17 13:11:53 yeah, breaks GSM logging by hs-jack Jun 17 13:12:06 calypso debug log Jun 17 13:12:46 for some reason I'm still prefer mobile amplifier, Jun 17 13:13:12 ok. I'll think about it Jun 17 13:13:15 thanks for info. Jun 17 13:13:34 (removal of U4401 that is) and it breaks factory GSM_DL calib procedure ;-) Jun 17 13:13:36 max_posedon: without hardware mod you won't get any decent sound even with amplifier. Jun 17 13:13:45 yup Jun 17 13:14:27 max_posedon: and a simple usb-audiocard dongle probably is better solution than a DIY amp for hs-jack Jun 17 13:14:46 PaulFertser, I don't belive jou Jun 17 13:15:01 I hear quite good sound from Microlab Solo mk3 from neo Jun 17 13:15:48 max_posedon: i don't believe you, it's impossible. Jun 17 13:15:55 DocScrutinizer, is there anu usb-audiocard which works via usb1.1? Jun 17 13:16:06 PaulFertser, hm... strange... Jun 17 13:16:34 PaulFertser, could you describe which problem with sound may be I have? Jun 17 13:16:56 max_posedon: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-March/001996.html Jun 17 13:18:36 oh.. ok Jun 17 13:20:00 PaulFertser, could you give a link to your fix? Jun 17 13:22:22 max_posedon: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_bass_fix#Rework_performed_by_Paul_Fertser Jun 17 13:23:07 now I need find person who will do it for me. Jun 17 13:23:11 DocScrutinizer: wow, you're fast. Thanks! :) Jun 17 13:23:40 max_posedon: to be honest i've never tried to listen to FR before the fix. So i can't even compare. Are you really satisfied with the sound quality? Jun 17 13:24:34 with *any* headphones - bad Jun 17 13:24:45 with external audio sustem, quite good Jun 17 13:24:53 I think I'll record today smth Jun 17 13:24:58 and try compare Jun 17 13:25:20 (may be upload some files somewhere and you will also will compare) Jun 17 13:25:37 (laptop vs neo) Jun 17 13:28:15 max_posedon: if you look at the schematics you'll see that it seems like decent audio is impossible even with an infinite Z amp. Jun 17 13:28:54 I'm very stupid with schematics.. so I can only trust/doesn't trust Jun 17 13:30:12 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r63a9ad025034 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: fso_actions: add state logic to the OccupyResource action Jun 17 13:33:06 max_posedon: if you do a real-life test, prefarably resulting in amplitude-frequency plot, i think it'd be quite interesting. Jun 17 13:35:52 max_posedon: PaulFertser: `sox original.wav crippled.wav highpass -1 2k` for 33R headphones. s/2k/300/ for 1kR load impedance Jun 17 13:37:35 DocScrutinizer: yes, but that doesn't explain why max_posedon says that the sound is ok for him. Jun 17 13:41:26 nor will a recording ;-) (except if done with a head-dummy / ear-dummy) Jun 17 13:43:30 depending on type of earphones (some have a considerable bass-boost), type of music (some simply don't have relevant low freq), and quality demands of listener the low-cut might go unnoticed Jun 17 13:44:08 * max_posedon just send mail to boss, that I want leave job Jun 17 13:44:08 also earphones have quite different impedance Jun 17 13:44:17 sorry my mind busy now with other stuff Jun 17 13:44:26 duh, why that? Jun 17 13:45:20 I don't want continue do crap blood-enterprise-projects , support C++ MFC Windows killing me Jun 17 13:45:23 My kingdom for a bed Jun 17 13:46:29 hey Ainulindale, isn't it too hot for bed right now in Paris? ;-) Jun 17 13:48:27 Yes it is Jun 17 13:48:32 And that's mostly why I intend to sleep Jun 17 13:48:59 I can't bear hot weather Jun 17 13:49:10 Ainulindale: take a blanket and go find a nice place in a park Jun 17 13:49:16 I'm at work Jun 17 13:49:21 Plus I don't like parks Jun 17 13:49:28 Or anything green with leaves & such for that matter Jun 17 13:49:34 lol Jun 17 13:49:44 I'm an indoor guy Jun 17 13:49:50 I just refuse to eat such stuff Jun 17 13:50:31 (green leaves) Jun 17 13:51:44 usefull for preparing infusion to drink (aka tea), for smoking, for extracting drugs, but for sure NOT for eating Jun 17 13:51:48 ;-) Jun 17 13:52:46 otherwise I'm quite comfortable with sitting under a nice big old tree in the shadow Jun 17 13:52:58 and for decoration of a steak Jun 17 13:52:59 Nah it's hard to find RJ45 there Jun 17 13:53:17 Plus it's usually messy Jun 17 13:53:20 And not comfortable Jun 17 13:53:28 bah, I got GPRS flat. Even HSPA if FR could do that Jun 17 13:53:31 I'm fine in my bed with books & sheets & beer Jun 17 13:53:49 and GF ;-) Jun 17 13:53:54 i suggested lan cables for the lake next to the university Jun 17 13:53:58 Yeah DocScrutinizer Jun 17 13:54:29 DocScrutinizer, what do you pay for the flat? Jun 17 13:55:04 25€ / month prepaid. 5GB limit Jun 17 13:55:11 so no real flat Jun 17 13:55:47 O2 loop. INTERNET L Jun 17 13:56:01 but 5GB is enough for email, surfing and chatting Jun 17 13:56:11 sure - plenty Jun 17 13:56:41 vodafone only has some crappy contracts Jun 17 13:56:42 with gprs it's probaly impossible to hit the limit anyway Jun 17 14:00:00 playya: the nice feature: I pay 30€ each month, and I get the 25€ dataplan, 5€ left, plus a bonus of 30€ (or was it 20€) on top for usage with any kind of call or sms. My account has a credit of ~120€ by now, due to all the "pay 30, get 60" boni Jun 17 14:00:34 nice Jun 17 14:00:48 wow. 45 tequilla in 30 mins Jun 17 14:01:07 eeeeek Jun 17 14:01:30 I'm rather sure you don't talk about yourself Jun 17 14:01:59 no. about the pupil who died a few months ago Jun 17 14:02:07 yup Jun 17 14:02:10 i have 2 contracts. i got prepaid cards for the base fees Jun 17 14:02:11 stupid Jun 17 14:02:23 for one contract Jun 17 14:02:39 so i had a bill like: you have to pay -250€ Jun 17 14:02:40 ouch, sorry for ^ :-/ Jun 17 14:02:53 or, WTF... ignore me :) Jun 17 14:03:00 now i pay about 70€/month Jun 17 14:03:43 playya: yup, that's annoying detail I can't get twin-cards for O2-Loop Jun 17 14:04:37 so if I like to use the data cntingent e.g. with UMTS-stick at laptop, I need to switch off my phone Jun 17 14:05:20 Ainulindale, hmm... I don't know if I like the update script idea Jun 17 14:05:21 well, it's a *really* _old_ SIM, so I could try to simply clone it Jun 17 14:05:29 (or maybe I did not understand that correctly) Jun 17 14:05:58 i had to extend my contract to get a new phone. and i needed a sim for my FR. the second one is nearly for free Jun 17 14:05:59 DocScrutinizer, what will O2 say if you book in twice? Jun 17 14:06:06 and i got my n95 Jun 17 14:06:08 * DocScrutinizer greps backscroll for "update script" Jun 17 14:06:31 DocScrutinizer, we're having a problem with all apps linked against the efl libs Jun 17 14:06:41 they do not get automatically rebuilt Jun 17 14:06:49 ouch Jun 17 14:07:01 how come? Jun 17 14:07:17 there is no such mechanism in OE Jun 17 14:07:19 automake borked? Jun 17 14:07:25 and normally is not needed Jun 17 14:07:36 s/automake/autotools/ Jun 17 14:07:40 though raster & co decided to change sonames on every freeze Jun 17 14:07:47 which makes all apps fail Jun 17 14:08:03 hehe, .so- name hell. Jun 17 14:08:08 yup Jun 17 14:08:08 ah. thats reminds me to sth Jun 17 14:08:35 i had a line to link the lib*presvnfoo.so to the .so files Jun 17 14:09:13 maybe i have it somewhere. just a suggestion for shr image to make packages from opkg.org usable Jun 17 14:10:34 mrmoku: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html Jun 17 14:10:47 Ainulindale, http://pastebin.com/d5ee0a1e2 Jun 17 14:11:48 mrmoku: "" Jun 17 14:11:50 3.6. Incompatible Libraries Jun 17 14:11:51 When a new version of a library is binary-incompatible with the old one the soname needs to change Jun 17 14:11:53 "" Jun 17 14:12:35 mrmoku: well, probably this should go to raster then ? Jun 17 14:14:31 DocScrutinizer, well it was discussed with him... what e people want to avoid is bugreports for apps that are linked against an older version of a lib but running with a newer lib Jun 17 14:14:36 or something like that Jun 17 14:14:56 * DocScrutinizer found a lot of so-lib devels have no decent idea about how to handle ABI compatibility issues and .so name revision / version bumps Jun 17 14:15:40 libecore_x-ver-pre-svn-01.so.0.9.9 Jun 17 14:15:43 old one Jun 17 14:15:52 libecore_x-ver-svn-02.so.0.9.9 Jun 17 14:15:53 new one Jun 17 14:16:06 ouuuuuuch! Jun 17 14:16:43 and somehow I can understand them... even if it creates lots of pain for us Jun 17 14:16:49 thing is e is like shr Jun 17 14:16:52 still unstable ;) Jun 17 14:17:20 and as we don't care that much about upgrade paths for unstable, they don't care about soname stability Jun 17 14:17:58 mrmoku: there's ne big diff though: THEY are LIB Jun 17 14:18:15 but not yet stabilized lib Jun 17 14:18:23 and that is declared as such Jun 17 14:18:28 guess we have to live with it Jun 17 14:20:01 I had a nasty argue with some lib-devels of a .so used by twinkle. They broke ABI but didn't bump correctly. Then another time they change name completely instead of bumping (similar to above) Jun 17 14:20:57 lib devel *have* to care about apps using their libs Jun 17 14:21:23 well, my 2 cent Jun 17 14:22:10 anyway... we have to deal with it :( Jun 17 14:22:39 OE offers a possibility to get the packages rebuilt Jun 17 14:22:43 but not PR-bumped Jun 17 14:22:51 so they would not update correctly Jun 17 14:23:01 if they broke the ABI completely, then prolly a total namechange like libecore_x-ver-pre-svn-01.so.0.9.9 -> libecore_x-ver-svn-02.so.0.9.9 is ok Jun 17 14:23:26 Ainulindale's preferred solution would be to use that to get the packages rebuilt and provide an update script Jun 17 14:23:30 Ainulindale, ping Jun 17 14:23:44 as you would need to fix all references to the lib in apps code anyway Jun 17 14:24:21 if ABI did NOT change, a name break is *BAD* Jun 17 14:24:55 s/ABI/(semantic of) ABI/ Jun 17 14:24:55 DocScrutinizer meant: if (semantic of) ABI did NOT change, a name break is *BAD* Jun 17 14:25:44 I think they don't want to use their resources to ensure that SONAME changes only on ABI changes... as long as their code is still fluxing around Jun 17 14:26:26 slothfulness and arrogance Jun 17 14:27:25 ABI continuity is a core feature of any lib. Dealing with it *that* way means putting a "don't use!" tag to the whole lib Jun 17 14:29:23 :) Jun 17 14:29:41 DocScrutinizer, spank raster then if he passes :) Jun 17 14:29:59 well we can't do much about it, except of nag. Either live with it, or discard lib all together Jun 17 14:29:59 Ainulindale, its just 11 packages... will bump the PR manually this time Jun 17 14:30:13 discarding it is not an option :( Jun 17 14:30:18 there is no alternative Jun 17 14:30:28 providing something similar Jun 17 14:30:48 regrettably. That's where my "that's arrogance" notion comes from Jun 17 14:31:53 and, as they *could* do better, that's where the "slothfulness" is from Jun 17 14:34:57 anyway - if they go nasty, probably a nasty script to deal with that is ok then as well. No idea how to handle that in a decent way Jun 17 14:36:48 FSCK .jpg spam! >:-((( Jun 17 14:37:02 * DocScrutinizer bbl Jun 17 14:40:33 (ok, I'll be fired on 12 or 17th july.) Jun 17 14:40:40 PaulFertser, how can I make a plot?) Jun 17 14:41:01 DocScrutinizer, what that test will do? Jun 17 14:41:33 sox? Jun 17 14:43:18 yes Jun 17 14:43:41 e.g. it should prove me that sound is bad? Jun 17 14:45:54 max_posedon: creates a crippled.wav from orig.wav that should have same bad bass you will get with headset on FR. It applies a highpass for that which aiui should be same as the one formed by C4410/1 Jun 17 14:47:49 something funny: http://echochamber.me/download/file.php?id=15666 Jun 17 14:52:14 wow, you should try this kb :D http://www.opkg.org/package_232.html Jun 17 14:52:59 after playing with it looks mandatory to remove borders on illune kb and make it transparent :) Jun 17 14:54:47 Sharwin_F, looks awesome Jun 17 14:55:04 someone should add transparency to illume keyboard as well! Jun 17 14:57:08 btw, how can I disable frameworkd or whatever does it setting a wrong timezone on booting time? Jun 17 14:57:13 someone should remove the bold useless header bar of terminal kbd Jun 17 15:01:13 someone should remove all layouts and keep only terminal Jun 17 15:01:35 after few month I can type on that terminal keyboard with fingers) Jun 17 15:03:40 max_posedon, it took me less than that. ;) Jun 17 15:04:00 though unfortunately, my screen is broken and the lower left portion doesn't work well ;\ Jun 17 15:04:11 :( Jun 17 15:11:11 * Sharwin_F agrees on remving non-terminal kb layouts Jun 17 15:11:32 Sharwin_F, why do you care? Jun 17 15:11:38 I mean, just let them be Jun 17 15:11:49 you can suggest changing terminal to keyboard Jun 17 15:11:53 *default Jun 17 15:11:59 that would be a good suggestion Jun 17 15:12:04 TAsn, yep, that's enough for me Jun 17 15:12:08 * Weiss has an evil master plan involving accelerated graphics drivers and transparency to make a LARGE keyboard Jun 17 15:12:15 is someone using predictive kb? Jun 17 15:12:34 Weiss, that's that package from opkg.com Jun 17 15:12:40 Sharwin_F, I sometime use it Jun 17 15:12:42 yeah. Jun 17 15:12:55 Sharwin_F: yep Jun 17 15:13:01 with custom dictionary Jun 17 15:13:05 sms writing rocks Jun 17 15:13:12 good, then let it be :P Jun 17 15:13:12 but you need bigger kees Jun 17 15:13:30 but still think terminal should be default one Jun 17 15:13:31 -e +y Jun 17 15:13:50 qwo has potential but needs bigger keys Jun 17 15:14:00 s/keys/bigger areas/ Jun 17 15:14:00 bumbl meant: qwo has potential but needs bigger bigger areas Jun 17 15:14:34 TAsn: yes indeed. perhaps it can be made faster using Glamo acceleration (which can do blitting with alpha transparency just fine, and quickly (one pixel per clock AFAIK, i.e. the same speed as solid fill/blit), provided we target the right operations Jun 17 15:15:04 Weiss: btw, could you make xserver-xorg-video-glamo issue FBIOBLANK? Jun 17 15:15:14 Weiss: or should some other part of Xorg do it? Jun 17 15:16:22 TAsn: (i confess to not having done my homework properly. Literki looks fantastic) Jun 17 15:17:24 lindi-: hmm.. what does that do? Jun 17 15:18:10 Weiss, :) Jun 17 15:18:18 Weiss, I think we should still use illume keyboard Jun 17 15:18:21 Weiss: http://paste.debian.net/39406/ Jun 17 15:18:21 and not literki Jun 17 15:18:28 Weiss: shortly put: save energy Jun 17 15:18:30 though improving illume keyboard should be considered. Jun 17 15:20:25 and maybe do something which is a mixture of paroly and the shr-home app Jun 17 15:20:31 make shr-home persistant Jun 17 15:20:46 and not closeable Jun 17 15:20:57 so it will really be the default page Jun 17 15:21:14 and the current home will be the app broweser Jun 17 15:21:24 got what I mean? Jun 17 15:22:56 well i think Jun 17 15:23:03 lindi-: very interesting... what does, say, SHR do at the moment when the screen blanks? it just turns the backlight off? Jun 17 15:23:06 the illume keyboard area should be bigger Jun 17 15:23:24 and better adapt to xrandr -o 1 Jun 17 15:24:04 bumbl, aye. Jun 17 15:24:49 illume keyboard is not really actively developed (or so I think) Jun 17 15:25:33 what i had in mind was something where you press a button (probably a hardware button), and a transparent keyboard superimposes itself on the screen, quickly, a la fatfingershell/literki Jun 17 15:26:13 yes, with AUX button :D Jun 17 15:26:59 i think literki does all of this though... if it's transparent, the current window doesn't get resized? Jun 17 15:27:17 Weiss: frameworkd issues that ioctl i think Jun 17 15:27:28 Weiss: but i don't use frameworkd Jun 17 15:29:37 TAsn: yeah Jun 17 15:29:49 although illume has real potential Jun 17 15:31:13 bumbl, I know. Jun 17 15:31:22 I send patches when I can Jun 17 15:36:09 I have a dream that one day we have an Open Phone Foundation which has enough sponsors to hire some developers Jun 17 15:36:24 to put forward the open phone ui and kernel development Jun 17 15:36:31 that one day we all stay here united Jun 17 15:36:41 and know there is a better freerunner for everyone of us Jun 17 15:36:56 * Weiss is in favour of people taking on HARD projects which challenge them and help them grow Jun 17 15:37:32 that all the burdens of buzzes and echos equally got abolished Jun 17 15:38:05 lindi-: hmm, after a bit of a poke around, it looks like GlamoCrtcDPMS() calls fbdevHWDPMSSet() which ends up doing that same ioctl.. Jun 17 15:39:32 Weiss: really? Jun 17 15:39:52 Weiss: did you check with pmu command? Jun 17 15:40:22 lindi-: i'm looking at xserver/hw/xfree86/fbdevhw/fbdevhw.c Jun 17 15:40:57 Weiss: odd. i did read the source of fbdev but I also did measure consumption Jun 17 15:41:24 Weiss: so can you please do the "pmu test" as described by paul? Jun 17 15:46:27 lindi-: what do 28 and 29 correspond to? Jun 17 15:46:38 pmu test? Jun 17 15:47:05 Weiss: i don't know, ask paul :) Jun 17 15:47:25 DocMobilizer1: http://paste.debian.net/39406/ Jun 17 15:48:43 mickey|lunch: is that oeventsd/odeviced bug (requesting resourse while resuming from suspend) fixed now? Jun 17 15:49:13 lindi-: after 29=1, i see a black (but backlit) screen Jun 17 15:49:50 lindi-: oh, actually white when i turn the level (28) up Jun 17 15:49:56 lindi-: hmm, sorry. clicking url sucks on fr irc Jun 17 15:52:56 lindi-: hmm.. if i do 28=80, the display goes off, then i have to do 29=0 then 29=1 to get the picture back Jun 17 15:53:59 did i crash jbt6k74? Jun 17 15:55:06 * Weiss invokes PaulFertser Jun 17 16:00:00 actually Jun 17 16:00:05 * Weiss invokes the schematics Jun 17 16:01:32 Weiss: Jun 17 16:01:35 28 LEDOUT R/W STBY reserved led_out Table 67 Jun 17 16:01:36 29 LEDENA R/W STBY reserved led_ena_act led_p3c led_p2c led_p1c led_on Table 68 Jun 17 16:01:53 PCF50633UM2.00.pdf Jun 17 16:02:35 p.114 Jun 17 16:04:22 8.10.5 Software interface Jun 17 16:04:22 DocMobilizer1: where's that pdf? Jun 17 16:04:23 Table 67. LEDOUT - LED output voltage select register (address 28h) bit description Jun 17 16:04:56 dos1: which bug number? Jun 17 16:05:02 DocMobilizer1: http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/GTA02/datasheet/PMU/PCF50633UM_6.pdf? Jun 17 16:05:07 hmmm, dunno. should be some pointer somewhere on wiki. My copy is /home/jr/Documents/OpenMoko/PCF50633UM2.00.pdf Jun 17 16:05:20 mickeyl: #435? checking Jun 17 16:05:29 mickeyl: yep, 435 Jun 17 16:06:40 fsousaged definitely brings a major improvement here and I found no problems in Zhone. SHR and Paroli may behave differently though, that's why i need to do more tests before I can close the bug Jun 17 16:06:51 building a paroli image atm. Jun 17 16:07:10 lindi-: yup, nearly identical document Jun 17 16:07:49 mickeyl: so now... do you know why some of libgsm0710 libraries doesn't build in shr/import branch? Jun 17 16:08:10 no, they build in fine in ms5.5 Jun 17 16:08:16 how do they break? Jun 17 16:12:15 mrmoku: i've just sent mail with patch for OE. could you commit it? (second one with bumped PR :P) Jun 17 16:12:22 mickeyl: checking Jun 17 16:13:04 dos1: you considered checking dbus-patch on NAND? Jun 17 16:13:30 DocScrutinizer: no. i don't have NAND working now :P Jun 17 16:14:01 DocScrutinizer: is there perhaps a typo on the first line of table 68? (s/ON/OFF/?) Jun 17 16:14:06 I know, and I tld ya my nand rootfs still seems borked wrt dbus Jun 17 16:14:31 DocScrutinizer: is it new instalation, or not? Jun 17 16:14:55 dos1, just saw the first... wanted to complain about missing PR bump... then saw the next one :) Jun 17 16:15:00 yeah, will apply it Jun 17 16:15:48 Weiss: I don't see a clue why there should be a typo. Jun 17 16:16:05 mickeyl: ERROR: Task 369 (/var/www/build/shr-unstable/openembedded/recipes/freesmartphone/libgsm0710mux_git.bb, do_compile) failed Jun 17 16:16:06 dos1: yup, rather new install. some 4 days old Jun 17 16:16:22 mickeyl: http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/builds/160269/ Jun 17 16:17:14 DocScrutinizer: ah, never mind - i misread Jun 17 16:17:25 k Jun 17 16:17:38 dos1: is your libgsm0710 recipe inheriting vala? Jun 17 16:17:50 if so, how does your vala.bbclass look like? Jun 17 16:18:17 mickeyl: looks like no Jun 17 16:18:28 mrmoku: could you sync that recipes with ms5.5? Jun 17 16:18:55 Weiss: please carefully notice table67,[2] Jun 17 16:19:39 mickeyl, hey. really sorry about the slow work on the time subsystem... I got a day job recently, so am a bit busy with that.. however, I will still be able to do some work for FSO.. :) Jun 17 16:20:12 Sup3rkiddo: glad to hear (both with the job and with FSO :) Jun 17 16:20:13 DocScrutinizer: yes.. and also i needed to pay attention to the values going into 'pmu' being hex.. Jun 17 16:20:47 anyway, I think we got sysfs nodes to handle that stuff Jun 17 16:20:52 yeah Jun 17 16:21:51 mickeyl, thanks :D Jun 17 16:23:23 lindi-: ok, having got the hang of this PMU register twiddling.. i'm definitely seeing the pixel clock as disabled when the screen auto-blanks in SHR-testing+Xorg(DRI). i.e. white screen of fluffy happiness when the LED is turned on manually (28=1,29=3f) Jun 17 16:25:17 Weiss: odd Jun 17 16:25:20 lindi-: the same when i do "xset s activate" Jun 17 16:25:51 is that not what you expected? Jun 17 16:26:23 tracfeed: Ticket #523 (Notifier app not launched when X starts) closed Jun 17 16:28:28 mickeyl: how long will the paroli image with fsousaged take? Jun 17 16:33:59 mrmoku, Ainulindale, it seems that gst-plugins-good is missing a depency for esd Jun 17 16:34:51 I really wonder who's using esd Jun 17 16:35:45 bitbake complains that esd.h is missing Jun 17 16:36:17 so it should be enough to add --disable-esd? Jun 17 16:36:18 tracfeed: Ticket #524 (SDcard IO Error and FS corruption when receiving call (unstable image)) created Jun 17 16:37:06 anybody an idea why make image works well, but "bitbake -c compile e-wm" complains about "ERROR: Please set the 'PERSISTENT_DIR' or 'CACHE' variable."? Jun 17 16:39:06 Frank1, take a look at you conf/site.conf Jun 17 16:39:27 and sometime . ./setup.env might be useful Jun 17 16:42:41 @playya, cache is defined in site.conf. setup_env was run before starting bitbake Jun 17 16:44:48 did you use . ./setup-env or only ./setup-env? Jun 17 16:44:49 tracfeed: fr_dmesg attached to Ticket #524 Jun 17 16:46:35 sh ./setup-env Jun 17 16:46:49 hrhrhr Jun 17 16:46:57 use . ./setup-env Jun 17 16:47:07 :D Jun 17 16:47:13 nice Jun 17 16:47:17 or you're executing the script in a new shel Jun 17 16:47:19 l Jun 17 16:47:23 damn Jun 17 16:47:45 and alle envs are only visible in this shell Jun 17 16:48:23 well you learn everyday something new. Jun 17 16:48:34 so now i can go back to my fix Jun 17 16:48:50 gl && hf Jun 17 16:51:54 Frank1: see `help source` Jun 17 16:52:18 ("." is an alias for "source") Jun 17 16:52:43 Weiss: that's written in the datasheet, when you put 0 to 28 you have to reenable the backlight. And 80 is too much for that value, so it's equivalent to 0. Jun 17 16:54:23 Weiss: kernel never writes 0 to register 28. Jun 17 16:54:24 0x80 & 0b00111111 = 0x00 ;-) Jun 17 16:54:31 Exactly Jun 17 16:55:31 Weiss: please carefully notice table67,[2] Jun 17 16:55:38 mickeyl: hey, is there any reason why screen blanking (FBIOBLANK ioctl) is optional in odeviced? Jun 17 16:59:40 heh, time for gprs lease expires due to 24h timeout Jun 17 17:00:38 * DocScrutinizer wonders how to correctly handle this annoyance. Need to unconnect/connect every day :-/ Jun 17 17:01:01 of course I could set up a mdbus cronjob Jun 17 17:02:28 I had zhone, openBmap, potamus (simple gtk music player) running. After receiving and incoming call it became so slow that i couldn't kill any app, just completely unresponsive. Even an hour of waiting did nothing. Back home but can't connect via ssh too. Jun 17 17:02:53 eeek Jun 17 17:03:41 Probably WM should nice all the app it starts... Jun 17 17:04:05 hmm, gprs doom seems to take another few minutes Jun 17 17:04:26 (nice) ack Jun 17 17:04:54 DocScrutinizer: don't you reboot your freerunner within 24h? Jun 17 17:05:09 nope, why should I? Jun 17 17:06:13 I usually reboot on flashing and on fatalities like the one paul encountered Jun 17 17:06:40 which easily might take a week to occur Jun 17 17:07:04 i.e. my FR stays up for days and weeks Jun 17 17:08:04 well it used to. currently dbus borks much too frequently to follow that scheme Jun 17 17:09:10 fredrin: ping Jun 17 17:09:24 hey wpwrak Jun 17 17:09:37 fixed FR buzz ? ;-) Jun 17 17:09:37 DocMobilizer1: howz lyf ? Jun 17 17:10:02 too digital Jun 17 17:10:07 naw, not yet. appointment is in about 50' Jun 17 17:10:16 aah Jun 17 17:10:54 meanwhile, I'm tweaking my little mill controller Jun 17 17:11:28 wpwrak: mill your own coins ;-) Jun 17 17:12:05 DocScrutinizer: hmm, why not. it's probably incredibly expensive, in terms of machine wear and such, but hey, anything to beat the system ;-) Jun 17 17:13:14 hehe Jun 17 17:18:41 do we have wireshark for FR? Jun 17 17:19:01 tcpdump Jun 17 17:19:10 fair enough Jun 17 17:19:55 * DocScrutinizer is now known as DocMobilizer1 Jun 17 17:19:56 there's a recipe for wireshark Jun 17 17:20:15 ngrep might be nice, too Jun 17 17:21:37 though I might want to wait scrutinizing GPRS lease expiry behaviour til tomorrow same time ;-) Jun 17 17:21:39 bbl Jun 17 17:35:08 hmmpf, at least gprs lease expiry is reproducable - and pidgin segfaults Jun 17 17:36:46 great opportunity to give xchat another try Jun 17 17:55:32 next question, how can i get the gsm gadget for testing to the phone without playing over the whole rootfs everytime? Jun 17 17:56:07 PaulFertser / DocScrutinizer: thanks.. figured out what i was doing wrong shortly before your reply.. Jun 17 18:05:14 DocMobilizer, why not irssi? :P Jun 17 18:12:52 wpwrak: aii, woke up now Jun 17 18:13:29 fredrin: so you're not into worms then :) Jun 17 18:13:58 worms? Jun 17 18:14:16 * fredrin is stupid in the morning Jun 17 18:16:04 fredrin: early bird catches the worm. if you prefer a different breakfast choice, sleep in. Jun 17 18:16:26 facturas is my style Jun 17 18:16:45 yeah, i prefer them over worms too :) Jun 17 18:17:11 fredrin, as long as its only in the morning ;-) Jun 17 18:17:34 wpwrak: i thought about the game worms for a sec... Jun 17 18:19:38 tracfeed: Ticket #524 (SDcard IO Error and FS corruption when receiving call (unstable image)) updated Jun 17 18:19:48 fredrin: yeah, running around, hitting walls. that can happen on a bad morning as well :) Jun 17 18:21:26 wpwrak: i need to get some ciggs, take shower and have a couple of media lunas, and i'll be on my way for the BøzzFix. k? Jun 17 18:23:07 fredrin: so when do you expect to arrive at my place ? Jun 17 18:23:36 16:30 should be possible Jun 17 18:24:40 hmm, maybe make this later then. i should get some batteries and the shops close around 18h Jun 17 18:25:12 if i go now, i should be back at 17h Jun 17 18:25:13 i can do later Jun 17 18:25:21 18? Jun 17 18:25:26 wtf, shops clos1800? Jun 17 18:25:41 it's argentina, you're luck if they're even open Jun 17 18:27:04 wpwrak: but is 18 ok for you? Jun 17 18:27:09 DocMobilizer: electronics shops ... most of them close at 18h and 18:30, some 19h Jun 17 18:27:21 fredrin: 18h is good, yes Jun 17 18:27:31 cool Jun 17 18:27:35 fredrin: (those shops are quite reliable :) Jun 17 18:27:42 PaulFertser: hi. I had a look at using KML in marble Jun 17 18:28:07 PaulFertser: KML can be netork link. They give an url of another kml, and so on, until having a real kml Jun 17 18:28:14 PaulFertser: the url can be local Jun 17 18:28:48 PaulFertser: marble does not seem to handle network link. but if you dig until getting the kml of cell from our website, then marble display the coverage area Jun 17 18:29:05 onen|openBmap: Hi again! 1) any changes of making the processing of data to be triggered automatically (to make the stats etc more interesting..) 2) any preview versions of new client available? Jun 17 18:30:27 rhkfin: hi! 1. the server is still in recovery mode. Nick told me today, it let it run every 6 hours after the end of the preceding processing. So no tight schedule for now. Jun 17 18:30:59 onen|openBmap: oh, too bad.. Jun 17 18:31:09 rhkfin: there is 8-) but this is mostly a work for distutils and debian packaging. there is not much changes you would get interested in Jun 17 18:31:31 onen|openBmap: like count of cells ..:? Jun 17 18:31:53 rhkfin: look at CHANGELOG diff here: http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition;a=commitdiff;h=d71f63ee345fee0c77f4c374ccb97c6d5c2fa084 Jun 17 18:32:24 "+* New GUI first attempt. Hidden for now." ha! Jun 17 18:32:26 rhkfin: not yet. I spend too much time taking notes of demand from users :-P Jun 17 18:32:34 onen|openBmap: okay :) Jun 17 18:32:44 rhkfin: yes, this is what I showed you on obm wiki page Jun 17 18:33:04 ok. Thanks for this, we're waiting for new releases :9 Jun 17 18:33:25 * rhkfin is still ahead of zorkman but afraid he'll pass me soon... Jun 17 18:34:01 rhkfin: if you want to help, talk about the project on Linux sites and communities, OSM, etc. ;-) Jun 17 18:34:17 rhkfin: I plan to do so, but it takes time Jun 17 18:34:33 onen|openBmap: ok :) Jun 17 18:35:21 * onen|openBmap hunts a crash reason of the logger :-( Jun 17 18:58:52 rhkfin? onen? Jun 17 18:59:21 mqy: hi! onen|openBmap ping Jun 17 19:00:11 mqy: hi :-) Jun 17 19:00:19 hi Jun 17 19:00:20 rhkfin: thanks for the ping :-) Jun 17 19:00:37 onen|openBmap: np :) Jun 17 19:02:47 I'm reflashing SHR, need sometime to test openbmap-logger Jun 17 19:03:12 mqy: have you had a look at openbmap.org too Jun 17 19:03:40 yes, but not too much Jun 17 19:03:58 I'll finish this soon Jun 17 19:04:33 ok Jun 17 19:05:45 rhkfin, you said " Jun 17 19:05:47 I hope you'll get it in to openembedded feeds Jun 17 19:05:48 at some stage so it'd be easy to install in OM2009 Jun 17 19:05:57 I'm just thinking about this Jun 17 19:07:26 my plan is (1) push omgps to public in 1 ~ 2 days, (2) get farmiliar with openbmap Jun 17 19:07:33 mqy: ok, nice. Is there anyone here who knows stuff about openembedded? Jun 17 19:07:34 mqy: nice! Jun 17 19:08:02 mqy: what do you mean by pushing omgps to public? Jun 17 19:08:17 mqy: 2. it should not take to much time ;-) Jun 17 19:08:17 for now, you can parepare your plan/docs at the same time Jun 17 19:08:47 mqy: rhkfin: I feel like passing an exam, I need to prepare my docs ;-) :-D Jun 17 19:09:17 but don't know howto about openembeded Jun 17 19:09:20 rhkfin: OE, I would say Ainu, mrmoku, etc... Jun 17 19:09:50 anybody? at least a example ;) Jun 17 19:10:00 mqy: I got in touch with people here, interested in my app. They proposed to package it for me. Jun 17 19:10:57 that's fine, before now I've thought about builltin updator, but that locks omgps to a fixed distributor -- myself Jun 17 19:11:11 mqy: you should ask rhkfin to find someone for you. He is very active here ;-) Jun 17 19:11:13 so I'm eager to push that work to others :) Jun 17 19:11:48 ok, rhkfin? your hands Jun 17 19:12:12 mqy: I definitely say no to this approach. One of the beauty of the distribution, is that you have all the package management, which install, updates, you app. Jun 17 19:12:12 onen|openBmap: what do you mean find someone? mqy so what do you want me to do? Jun 17 19:12:36 mqy: and for people, as simple as: opkg install omgps...... opkg upgrade Jun 17 19:13:00 rhkfin: he he, just joking Jun 17 19:13:15 rhkfin, about push omgps packaging to distributors Jun 17 19:13:26 mqy: as I said, Ainulindale, mrmoku, stefan_schmidt, are OE guys, AFAIK Jun 17 19:13:47 mrmoku: ping Jun 17 19:13:55 onen, I see. but as an open project, I don't agree you totally Jun 17 19:14:07 mqy: ? Jun 17 19:15:18 onen, I mean just like other distributions -- ubuntu, debian, etc. distributor can push soruce codes and built with there tools chains and put into various repositories Jun 17 19:15:53 of couse, I'll periodially ipkg latest binaries and put links to omgps homepage :) Jun 17 19:16:15 %s/push soruce/pull source/ Jun 17 19:17:13 mqy: the problem is that all user need to go to the homepage to find the latest version.. Jun 17 19:21:08 mqy: -> having it in OE would make it available to both SHR and OM2009. In addition to that you might need someone to push it to debian to get a good coverage and easy installation for all Freerunner users, no matter what's the distribution. Jun 17 19:21:33 rhkfin, agree Jun 17 19:21:49 before now, I'm not sure if omgps is welcome by users Jun 17 19:21:56 mqy: well yes, maybe I miss your point. But I feel we say the same. Just propose your code in a way that distributions can grab and package (tar.gz, git), OE or deb, or anything else based Jun 17 19:22:12 mqy: it does not prevent you from packaging "unstable" version as you wish... Jun 17 19:23:00 mqy: er... so you think it's not good enough to be pushed to feeds? Yes it is, and that's the way to get more users to contribute and use it! But I also understand if you want to keep developing some weeks before 'going public' and pushing to feeds. Jun 17 19:23:35 mqy: for example, so far I put a tag.gz of source code on my website. I ping OE people, they update the OE recipe (build script), and my app goes to OE feeds Jun 17 19:23:56 onen|openBmap, pong Jun 17 19:23:58 sure, I'm expecting freerunner to be more instersting and useful. but stable is important Jun 17 19:24:00 mqy: I don't have to put the files where it should be for every distribution or so. packagers does it for me Jun 17 19:24:12 onen|openBmap: btw do you have any idea how long does it take to come from OE to SHR (or OM2009?) Jun 17 19:24:26 release plan is a kind of art ;) Jun 17 19:24:46 mqy: I showed up on fso/debian ML, and asked for help. Someone grabed the task and we are readying a debian package. Jun 17 19:25:16 onen, that's fine Jun 17 19:25:34 mrmoku: Abend :-) mqy is looking for good wills for packaging his app. Where should he ask? om ML? Jun 17 19:25:59 mqy: and currently there are 3 apps to do the same omgps does on freerunner: tangogps, omgps and bikeator. I think tango needs a competitor and omgps is pretty much there to beat tangogps. bikeator doesn't work for me.. Jun 17 19:26:02 mqy, where do I find the source? Jun 17 19:27:05 mmoku, http://code.google.com/p/omgps/source/checkout Jun 17 19:27:23 rhkfin: I will ping Stefan about this. I know he is busy, so I did not want to be on his back after 2 days ;-) Jun 17 19:27:35 mqy, will take a look :) Jun 17 19:27:40 It has basic build scripts, on top of om tool chain Jun 17 19:28:16 onen|openBmap: no problem, just curious. Jun 17 19:28:36 mrmoku: do you have any idea how long does it take for an app to come from oe to shr/om2009? Jun 17 19:28:58 hehehe, we just confirmed 850-devices can operate on 900MHz as well, though with really poor RF sensitivity Jun 17 19:29:22 rhkfin, depends in which branch of OE and if we can easily cherry-pick Jun 17 19:29:28 mrmoku: ok Jun 17 19:29:31 I build with "om-conf omgps" then "om-make-ipkg omgps " Jun 17 19:29:32 if there is a recipe usually time is very short :) Jun 17 19:29:33 DocScrutinizer: oh, not bad! Jun 17 19:29:36 i.e it works for Germany T-Kom, it is near to unusable with Vodafone Jun 17 19:29:50 mqy, will try to make a .bb recipe Jun 17 19:29:56 and get it in OE Jun 17 19:31:00 this is particularly great news for US TKom customers roaming to Germany (or EU for that behalf) Jun 17 19:31:16 mqy: about packaging in feed. I for one, test my app, and only when stable push to feeds. reason is: people must use only stable versions of my app. But maybe you could push "live" your code to an unstable feed? And the last stable version to "stable" feed. Jun 17 19:31:41 DocScrutinizer: he he, neat :-) Jun 17 19:32:01 bbl Jun 17 19:32:36 onen, unstable of couse, it's just 0.1 Jun 17 19:33:54 mqy: no, it's not that unstable! I think it works nice! Jun 17 19:34:05 one thing to mention, works have to be done when version changes, configurations have to be merged/upgraded. So I have to learn how to wirte scripts for installation :) Jun 17 19:35:03 I found serveral urls about how to use ipkg, any official links? Jun 17 19:35:10 mqy: yes I guess that's something you need to know anyway, no matter if there's a feed or not, people will anyway upgrade their installations. Either from feeds or from google code.. Jun 17 19:35:10 what about this? http://qtextended.org/modules/developers/qtopia.php?linkFile=developers/IPKG_Howto Jun 17 19:35:24 * rhkfin doesn't know and needs to go. See you! Jun 17 19:35:39 rhkfin, thx Jun 17 19:36:26 mqy: no Jun 17 19:36:29 problems Jun 17 19:38:13 I just released a new version, you can see changes from http://code.google.com/p/omgps/wiki/ReleaseStatus?ts=1245267445&updated=ReleaseStatus Jun 17 19:38:31 with two bugfixes, it that so stable ? haha Jun 17 19:40:06 mqy: my app is 0.3.0 version. But I consider it stable. Because it is stable. It is tested. It does not mean everything I plan is implemented, neither it is bug free. Jun 17 19:40:24 mqy: nice! Jun 17 19:40:33 mqy: well I let it up to you to lable your app as stable or not ;-) Jun 17 19:40:44 * rhkfin installs new omgps :) Jun 17 19:41:46 * mrmoku tries to build new omgps :) Jun 17 19:43:17 jc: ping Jun 17 19:43:26 roh: ping Jun 17 19:43:58 could any of you please aprove my msg to [hw]/[community] Jun 17 19:44:22 DocScrutinizer: pong Jun 17 19:44:32 mail list? Jun 17 19:44:52 jc: [hw]/[community] Jun 17 19:45:27 jc: wtf, I probably shouldn't do BCC Jun 17 19:45:45 mqy: you might want to have a look at http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/01/building-community-around-your-foss.html if you wish other people to contribute to omgps too. Jun 17 19:46:07 jc: Jun 17 19:46:09 The reason it is being held: Jun 17 19:46:10 Message has implicit destination Jun 17 19:46:33 what's the subject? Jun 17 19:46:41 rhkfin, can't access that page Jun 17 19:46:50 jc: US triband vs EU triband Jun 17 19:47:16 mqy: huh? Jun 17 19:48:35 jc: many thanks :-) Jun 17 19:48:37 rhkfin, that site maybe blocked by China great wall Jun 17 19:49:57 DocScrutinizer: done. Jun 17 19:50:03 mqy: no way, that's boring. I'll copy the text to pastebin for you.. Jun 17 19:50:12 jc: many thanks :-) Jun 17 19:50:18 no problem. Jun 17 19:50:20 rhk, fine, email to me? Jun 17 19:50:30 I didn't see that in HW, but community. Jun 17 19:51:12 jc: yeah [hw] probably went trru, but [c] held back for BCC Jun 17 19:51:54 comm one is go through:) Jun 17 19:52:09 mqy: http://pastebin.com/m14e0f4ae (saved there for a month). The writer is a KDE main developers, I think he knows what's he talking about. Jun 17 19:53:04 jc: anyway nice body, no? Jun 17 19:53:37 jc: FR finally made it to 3.5-band Jun 17 19:53:55 rhkfin, good Jun 17 19:54:27 3.5 band? Jun 17 19:56:08 DocScrutinizer: you mean, the 850 FR could work in 900 environment? Jun 17 19:56:20 jc: yes Jun 17 19:56:58 jc: and probably vice versa Jun 17 20:00:59 jc: well, all FR can use 1800/1900 bands, but if you got a SIM that doesn't allow roaming to the operators holding those bands, common notion was you are out of luck when e.g. roaming from US to EU Jun 17 20:02:13 jc: now it seems you can use 900MHz-band with a 850-device as well - though with poor sensitivity, thus effectively restricting operation range to areas with very good 900-coverage Jun 17 20:02:52 which is all urban areas in Germany, for T-Kom Jun 17 20:02:58 3.5-band :) Jun 17 20:03:04 :-) Jun 17 20:03:46 tracfeed: Ticket #524 (SDcard IO Error and FS corruption when receiving call (unstable image)) updated Jun 17 20:07:28 jc: a nice incidence is a lot of US customers got a US TKom SIM, which is supposed to work for roaming in EU TKom networks which are 900 Jun 17 20:08:22 going yo flash my FR within days. Jun 17 20:08:38 s/to/yo/ Jun 17 20:10:25 DocScrutinizer: time to sleep, ciao ciao. Jun 17 20:10:45 jc: NIGHT :-) Jun 17 20:24:49 mqy: ping Jun 17 20:25:36 mqy: omgps always speaks m/s no matter what's the selected unit to show Jun 17 20:25:49 mqy: skymap is cool Jun 17 20:27:18 rhkfin? Jun 17 20:28:00 "omgps always speaks m/s no matter what's the selected unit to show"? I'll have a test now Jun 17 20:28:09 mqy: ok Jun 17 20:28:33 i see km/h but hear m/s Jun 17 20:29:25 rhkfin, your are right Jun 17 20:29:56 thanks. i like the speech :) Jun 17 20:30:00 I forgot upgrade sound file :) Jun 17 20:30:25 mqy, I'm having a problem with the python part while building Jun 17 20:30:39 first thing is... OE does not like absolute include paths Jun 17 20:31:04 that one is easy to solve... I replaced /usr/include with $(includedir) in the Makefile.am Jun 17 20:31:04 mrmoku, yes, python is a problem it took me times to build Jun 17 20:31:09 :) Jun 17 20:31:20 which packages did you install into your toolchain to make it build? Jun 17 20:31:55 mrmoku, let me see from opkg.org Jun 17 20:32:05 wpwrak: che i go soon, will be at your place at 18:00 Jun 17 20:32:19 i'll call you so you can hear the buzz, hehe Jun 17 20:32:55 python-pygobject libgthread-2.0-0 libdbus-glib-1-2 gtk+ Jun 17 20:33:35 ok, will try that Jun 17 20:39:00 rhkfin? I double checked omgps-sound module, no speed units any more Jun 17 20:39:42 I guess your are amongst the first N users, and did not upgrade omgps-sound package, right? Jun 17 20:39:58 mqy: track start&stop time is the same for 2 of my 3 tracks. Jun 17 20:40:55 rhkfin, do you mean start time == stop time for each record? Jun 17 20:42:40 mqy: yes, start = stop time, see scap.linuxtogo.org Jun 17 20:42:44 the start time is actually the time of first valid fix Jun 17 20:43:31 i installed both omgps and sound some 40min ago Jun 17 20:43:33 !a Jun 17 20:43:37 whoops Jun 17 20:44:10 rhkfin, ok, I'll check that Jun 17 20:51:03 theme of SHR changed a lot, one thing to mention: the font size gets a bit larger than before Jun 17 20:52:49 I think we should start making design choices Jun 17 20:52:59 mrmoku, got anything to say about this idea? Jun 17 20:53:13 (by design I meant graphic design) Jun 17 20:53:51 mqy: ok, back at desktop again (was using fr earlier :) -> I mean that if I move 10m/s and see 36km/h in the main view, the audio says "speed ten" instead of "speed thirty six". Jun 17 20:54:29 I think we need a new e17 theme and desktop background. Jun 17 20:54:46 fredrin: back. ok. Jun 17 20:54:52 mqy: but I have to say that I'm impressed by all features you have there, map offset, map layers and everything! I don't know how to use it all but it's far more what tangogps does so I think you have nothing to be ashamed of that should stop you from releasing! Jun 17 20:56:57 rhkfin, you are so kind :) Jun 17 20:57:07 TAsn, hmm... to be honest that's not on top of my priority list :P Jun 17 20:57:19 not on mine's either Jun 17 20:57:32 though it seems that users like good looks Jun 17 20:57:39 take the iphone for example Jun 17 20:57:44 I agree though that we need enhancements in there Jun 17 20:57:45 yeah Jun 17 20:57:48 shitty device with a decent look. Jun 17 20:57:50 users are easy to blend ;) Jun 17 20:57:55 omgps was not tested well by me, that's why I don't consider it stable Jun 17 20:57:59 mrmoku, aye ;) Jun 17 20:58:16 but choosing a background isn't hard Jun 17 20:58:47 and doesn't consume a lot of time. Jun 17 20:59:02 I'm not saying we should stop everything and design the whole system from scratch Jun 17 20:59:09 but at least choose a default nice looking background Jun 17 20:59:22 so people will start feeling shr is more "user aware" Jun 17 20:59:24 TAsn, and decide for some logo Jun 17 20:59:31 and not only a product in development. Jun 17 20:59:45 mrmoku, maybe we should write a blog post requesting for a logo design? Jun 17 20:59:46 TAsn, bring it to the core :P Jun 17 20:59:54 mrmoku, will do. :) Jun 17 21:00:18 (to tell you the truth, it's the exam period and I'm barely active, but sec, I'm writing the mail...) Jun 17 21:00:28 good thing :) Jun 17 21:00:30 I want this semester to end already! Jun 17 21:01:02 at least you have something which will end at *some* point in time... work is going on forever :P Jun 17 21:01:05 Please help me choose a descriptive topic Jun 17 21:01:14 mrmoku, hehe yeah ;) Jun 17 21:01:30 'graphical user experience enhancements' Jun 17 21:01:37 mrmoku, you rock. Jun 17 21:01:54 all I had in mind is design decisions which is too ambiguous :) Jun 17 21:01:55 nah... its quite some time ago I was in a disco ;) Jun 17 21:02:05 ;] Jun 17 21:02:24 TAsn, can you tell me what to depend on if a package needs Python.h? Jun 17 21:02:39 hmm... maybe just as easy as python? Jun 17 21:02:53 looks write to me ;) Jun 17 21:03:10 maybe python-dev ? Jun 17 21:03:16 or actually Jun 17 21:03:17 tried that one... does not exist Jun 17 21:03:20 python-native Jun 17 21:03:28 or something like that. Jun 17 21:03:34 ahh... python-native... yeah Jun 17 21:03:36 because it's buildhost stuff. Jun 17 21:03:37 ;) Jun 17 21:03:38 * mrmoku tries Jun 17 21:04:45 what to opkg kickass to get rid of predictive kbd? Jun 17 21:06:11 DocScrutinizer, http://pastebin.com/m1a798e94 Jun 17 21:06:18 (not the solution for your kbd prob though) Jun 17 21:06:47 there is one package which cannot be installed with busybox in parallel Jun 17 21:06:48 findutils Jun 17 21:06:55 which makes me sad Jun 17 21:07:07 mrmoku: nice though :-D Jun 17 21:07:37 mrmoku: (find) how come? Jun 17 21:08:32 because busybox does not go the 'alternatives' way for those Jun 17 21:09:16 SHR, I have a question about font, I set found size with gtk-font-name = "Sans Bold 14px" and parse it with gtk_rc_parse_string(), but font size differs much Jun 17 21:09:36 I mean SHR I installed weeks ago with current unstable Jun 17 21:10:00 mqy, don't know if that's related... but we changed the gtk theme some time ago Jun 17 21:10:19 mrmoku: dump busybox all together? Jun 17 21:10:29 marmoku, that's strange, because the font size is absolute Jun 17 21:10:30 hmm, if that was buzz, then we should have marketed it as military-grade scrambling ... Jun 17 21:10:50 wpwrak: lol Jun 17 21:11:22 23:57 < TAsn> though it seems that users like good looks <-- I agree! Jun 17 21:11:34 wpwrak: seems a small bit is missing to make this a success story: the descrambler Jun 17 21:12:00 rhkfin, :) Jun 17 21:12:04 DocMobilizer: yeah :) so close ... Jun 17 21:12:11 steve jobs knows his work ;) Jun 17 21:12:22 (Although I actually don't like the apple ui) Jun 17 21:12:25 mqy, hmm... we have a similar problem with some elementary fonts... Jun 17 21:12:40 maybe it came by updating e-wm Jun 17 21:13:50 mrmoku, I just flashed latest image, and did none updating Jun 17 21:13:56 TAsn: http://risto.kurppa.fi/blog/paroli-background-images/ - trying to fight the 'simple is beautiful' -thing :) Jun 17 21:14:08 mqy, latest image from today has the new e-wm Jun 17 21:14:10 mrmoku, sent. Jun 17 21:14:26 rhkfin, actually I don't like the new paroli backgrounds ;\ Jun 17 21:14:27 * mrmoku fires his kmail Jun 17 21:14:55 mrmoku, my installation is shr-shr-lite-image-glibc-ipk--20090615-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 Jun 17 21:14:58 mrmoku, yuck, you are a kde user. Jun 17 21:14:59 ;\ Jun 17 21:15:16 oh right we already had this talk Jun 17 21:15:17 do you mean I should reflash ? Jun 17 21:15:35 you like the 3d globe as the desktop Jun 17 21:15:36 ;\ Jun 17 21:16:37 mrmoku: is there any doom waiting for those opkg-installing a pkg twice? Jun 17 21:16:45 TAsn: well to ease your pain, Paroli doesn't have backgrounds (by default), I made some to give it a touch of colour :) Jun 17 21:17:00 rhkfin, I don't use paroli anyway Jun 17 21:17:05 TAsn: :) Jun 17 21:17:08 I just said I think they are too complicated :) Jun 17 21:17:18 maybe they work for paroli, but for shr with all the icons Jun 17 21:17:21 that just won't work. Jun 17 21:17:22 ;\ Jun 17 21:18:51 mrmoku, didn't think about that! (what you said in mail) Jun 17 21:18:51 * DocScrutinizer hates wallpapers Jun 17 21:18:52 good idea ;) Jun 17 21:18:56 DocMobilizer, sh.. Jun 17 21:18:57 :) Jun 17 21:19:53 wallpapers love DocScrutinizer :) Jun 17 21:20:09 though I have to admit Zhone pic is rather cool Jun 17 21:20:17 DocScrutinizer, no it will just say that it is already installed and uptodate Jun 17 21:21:10 TAsn, I think there are lots of them out there... wanting to help but can't code Jun 17 21:21:24 find with me :) Jun 17 21:21:25 mrmoku: k, so I somehow manage to toss it to my FR and fire&forget while going for dinner and spilling my ts with sauce ;-D Jun 17 21:21:30 me actually need a lot of designers Jun 17 21:21:37 and IT guys Jun 17 21:21:51 and even package maintainers Jun 17 21:21:52 :) Jun 17 21:22:02 maybe we should post something about that as well Jun 17 21:23:08 python Jun 17 21:24:53 mrmoku: (find) a pity as bybo-find is as borked and crippled as the whole rest of this crap Jun 17 21:24:57 DocScrutinizer, don't know how coreutils react when being spilled with sauce... but apart from that yeah Jun 17 21:25:25 DocScrutinizer, hmmm maybe it can be installed with some -force-overwrite param... don't know Jun 17 21:25:35 * mrmoku --> shower Jun 17 21:25:44 I'll give it a shot. Will report Jun 17 21:25:49 enjoy Jun 17 21:26:04 cya fellas Jun 17 21:44:04 fredrin: buzzfix going on, cross your fingers Jun 17 21:44:52 grrrrr, ^c on opkg-script froze FR Jun 17 21:51:50 DocScrutinizer, ouch... hope it recovers Jun 17 21:51:59 anyway... I'm off to bed Jun 17 21:52:01 gnight all Jun 17 21:55:42 night mrmoku|away Jun 17 21:55:52 rhkfin, did you report this bug? http://code.google.com/p/omgps/issues/detail?id=6 Jun 17 21:57:29 mqy: no Jun 17 21:57:32 mrmoku|away: recover==reboot ;-) Jun 17 21:59:54 rhkfin,I don't see this issue, plus to the one your reported before. I'm wondering why google code does not display reporter information, I can't get touch with them Jun 17 22:01:39 it does, above the issue. 'reported by...'? Jun 17 22:03:04 rhkfin, "Reported by unachievable" :))) Jun 17 22:04:55 mqy: yes, are you not sure that his @gmail.com is not unachievable..? Check the one I reported.. Jun 17 22:07:21 DocScrutinizer: problem with speaker always on solved Jun 17 22:07:30 rhkfin, I'm sorry, I can't see any reporters's information other than mine Jun 17 22:07:37 DocScrutinizer: fucking speech-dispatcher.. Jun 17 22:08:08 ack Jun 17 22:08:08 http://code.google.com/p/omgps/issues/list?can=1&q=&colspec=ID+Type+Status+Priority+Milestone+Owner+Summary&cells=tiles Jun 17 22:09:06 mqy: http://code.google.com/u/unachievable/updates - believe me, just email unachievable@gmail.com! Jun 17 22:10:48 is that you? Jun 17 22:11:23 my God, that name is really interesting :D Jun 17 22:13:36 mqy: no, it's not me, its his username :) Jun 17 22:19:43 mrmoku|away, just don't press^C and everything great :-) Jun 17 22:20:26 rhkfin, I see, thx, it's almost a joke :D Jun 17 22:21:49 rhkfin, I've thought that's google's privacy to protect users who don't want to open their information Jun 17 22:24:22 mqy: nope :) Jun 17 22:27:03 mrmoku|away, installing findutils threw error. Nevertheless `find --help` looks *good* Jun 17 22:36:03 rhkfin, I'd like to verify the issue you reported before about track time Jun 17 22:36:13 mqy: yes Jun 17 22:36:24 rhkfin, would you please open the track file to see saved data? Jun 17 22:36:42 ok, wait a sec.. Jun 17 22:37:15 just "head xxx" Jun 17 22:37:19 the format is Jun 17 22:37:21 start time: 1243665434 Jun 17 22:37:22 end time: 1243668532 Jun 17 22:37:24 record count: 2261 Jun 17 22:37:25 40.225826 116.213452 0 Jun 17 22:38:24 mqy: http://pastebin.com/d5b1a4e44 Jun 17 22:38:47 what's the third column?`time in seconds? Jun 17 22:39:17 yes, offset Jun 17 22:39:32 ok Jun 17 22:39:51 strange, why that much 0s Jun 17 22:40:09 indeed.. Jun 17 22:40:51 can you verify that your system time is valid? time zone? Jun 17 22:41:33 but, the time offset is calculated against GPS fix time. Jun 17 22:41:58 how do I verify it? Jun 17 22:43:14 nothing, let me check. Jun 17 22:43:41 ok Jun 17 23:36:30 so .. a little less buzz in this world. that stuff is really nasty. first time that i heard it. Jun 17 23:39:19 wpwrak: joh Jun 17 23:39:45 1k ok? Jun 17 23:42:12 DAMN! opkg keeps postinstall scripts that throw error :-(( Jun 17 23:42:48 opkg install -force-overwrite findutils threw error on postinstall Jun 17 23:44:45 DocMobilizer: 1k seems good, yes. he had some big problems with echo, but that may be the alsa state Jun 17 23:45:25 now when `opkg install mc` I get ""opkg: (null): Bad address\n (*2)\n configuring mc-extfs\n configuring findutils (*!!!*).... "" Jun 17 23:46:07 wpwrak: (echo) AT%N0187 Jun 17 23:46:41 wpwrak: iirc he has some strange distro Jun 17 23:47:17 DocMobilizer: it's some recent "testing" ... something with paroli. looks actually pretty decent. Jun 17 23:47:28 hmmm Jun 17 23:48:59 wpwrak: you know AEC depends on "unmangled" echo, as the algo works on subtracting a delayed output signal from mic input basically Jun 17 23:49:05 wpwrak: Om2009 testint 4 or 5 :) Jun 17 23:49:17 wpwrak: so wrong statefiles can easily spoil AEC Jun 17 23:49:29 wpwrak: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2009 Jun 17 23:50:09 DocMobilizer: yeah, it sounded as if the signal was running ahead of itself. very strange effect. Jun 17 23:50:35 wpwrak: especially when routing mic thru PGA and enabling ALC n mixer Jun 17 23:50:47 rhkfin: yup, must be that one, thanks Jun 17 23:51:10 DocScrutinizer: The echo doesn't to seem to be stable: during one call it sometimes echoes sometimes doesn't (when I'm quiet and the other end talks). To me it sounds like the noise gate doesn't work fully but the background noise (be it the voice of the other person or background noise like bus, computer fan, whatever) is amplified a lot.. Jun 17 23:52:23 hmmm, so maybe reducing control.5 a few units may help a lot then Jun 17 23:52:56 also I'm not quite sure OM2009 handles AT%N correctly Jun 17 23:53:49 the echo reduction? Hmm.. I really hope it doesn't and when it's fixed things get easier.. I'll ask nytowl later.. Jun 17 23:53:51 and if OM2009 has borked statefiles, everything may happen, even feedback inside mixer Jun 17 23:54:15 DocScrutinizer: I'm using the -new (-based I've tried to fix further a bit myself) Jun 17 23:55:51 aah, ok. Then just reduce control.5 until you get decent sensitivity for far end hearing you loud but without ambient noise penetrating noisegate Jun 17 23:55:53 DocScrutinizer: Do you think the -new statefile should work for all FR's or are there small differencies in the component values that cause the need for a little tuning for each unit? (well, depends on the operator etc... Hmm.. ) Jun 17 23:56:42 rhkfin: for sure you need to adjust according to your particular buzzfix situation Jun 17 23:56:59 'mono playback volume' is the volume of signal from my microphone sent to calypso? Jun 17 23:57:14 *sigh* mompl Jun 17 23:57:27 numid=5,iface=MIXER,name='Mono Playback Volume' Jun 17 23:57:32 yes Jun 17 23:59:32 during call open amixer, adjust "mono pl.b. vol", then do a `alsactl store .../gsmhandset.state` Jun 17 23:59:45 *then* finish call Jun 18 00:00:23 probably you prefer to do this from a decent PC via ssh Jun 18 00:00:33 yes, understand and can do that, just want to understand the behaviour.. Jun 18 00:01:14 mono playb. vol is the signal that I hear from my speaker, isn't it? Jun 18 00:01:39 alternatively write a script you call in FR terminal that does the amixer invocation and after amixwer returns does the alsactl store thingie automatically Jun 18 00:01:54 reducing it reduces the changes of the mic picking up the signal - but also at the same time makes it harder for me to hear the other end? Jun 18 00:02:10 rhkfin: nope, control.5 is mixer-to-gsmMicInput Jun 18 00:02:19 oh, ok.. Jun 18 00:02:46 it's the sensitivity of your handsets microphone Jun 18 00:03:02 ok, understand. Now it makes sense. Jun 18 00:03:17 How can I play with the gate level? Jun 18 00:03:46 see wiki for description of AT%N valid numeric arguments Jun 18 00:04:02 so the gate is in calypso, not alsa. ok Jun 18 00:04:03 sorry no pointer ATM, you have to search for it Jun 18 00:04:15 np Jun 18 00:04:20 yup, gate and echo cancellation in modem Jun 18 00:04:36 ok, got it.. Jun 18 00:04:54 Thanks for this, let's see if i'd be able to improve it a bit again.. Jun 18 00:05:13 mixer is a simple preamp for mic from modems POV Jun 18 00:06:13 This is the one, I guess: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands#Echo_Suppression_and_Noise_Reduction Jun 18 00:06:44 yup, exactly Jun 18 00:06:57 what's short & long AEC? Jun 18 00:07:08 I think it's n some of FSOs config-files Jun 18 00:08:04 I guess it'S about signal delay from output to input, I.E. how long the sound needs thru the air from speaker to mic Jun 18 00:08:31 not sure about that though, mere guess Jun 18 00:08:37 ok.. Jun 18 00:09:23 might as well be sth about how long it takes the AEC to recalibrate from silence to voice and back Jun 18 00:11:04 and noise cancellation is the gate? Jun 18 00:11:07 rhkfin: check mailing lists, there has to be a better more comprehensive explanation of AT%N Jun 18 00:11:14 yup, Jun 18 00:11:31 ok, thanks for the pointerst! Jun 18 00:11:41 the dB value is probably the level where it kicks in Jun 18 00:11:51 right Jun 18 00:12:41 be aware there's lots of confusion about exact semantics of AT%N Jun 18 00:13:28 ok.. I'll try to find my way through the nasty poisonous AT-spikes shot at me from the Fortress of Calypso.. Jun 18 00:13:50 I even seen statements these commands are accumulative, like "AT%N293; AT%N105" Jun 18 00:15:22 long AEC -12dB and nose reducion is active.. Jun 18 00:19:27 mompl, started search across *all* my OM-mail Jun 18 00:19:45 may take a few minutes (no quadcore here ;-) Jun 18 00:24:13 i'd have to call the CIA to do that ... Jun 18 00:25:41 sheeesh, 80.000 msgs searched, no success to find the code sniplet I know I've seen long ago :-/ Jun 18 00:25:57 start agin with more fuzzy searchstring Jun 18 00:26:19 start agin' - yeah, true ;-) Jun 18 00:29:54 kmail search eats swap like hell Jun 18 00:32:39 ooooh my.... Jun 18 00:33:16 * DocScrutinizer considers to install a beowulf with all the FR around here ;-) Jun 18 00:34:18 though kmail using threads for search would help a lot to exploit full power of dual cores Jun 18 00:34:53 * DocScrutinizer considers using grep instead Jun 18 00:36:11 mutt can also search mail bodies Jun 18 00:50:17 rhkfin: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-June/001240.html Jun 18 00:51:36 wpwrak: thanks again for the buzzfix :DD Jun 18 00:52:58 rhkfin: be aware though nobody knows exactly what's the meaning of ""reset trigger for AEC / SPENH "" Jun 18 00:54:06 rhkfin: I strongly suggest to OR the bitmasks for the desired settings, and send these to calypso as a single AT%N command Jun 18 00:55:22 DocScrutinizer: Do i need to use the AT command to fix the echo? how? Jun 18 00:55:49 the meaning of bit0 ""ACK bit : set to 1 in order to warn DSP..."" is completely up to anybody's guess Jun 18 00:57:40 depends on your distro, and on your config. please read backscroll of this #chan, starting with ""[2009-06-18 01:44:45] DocMobilizer: 1k seems good, yes. he had some big problems with echo, but that may be the alsa state"" Jun 18 00:58:01 fredrin: you got backscroll? Jun 18 00:58:16 don't think so Jun 18 00:58:24 let me check Jun 18 00:59:18 ~log Jun 18 00:59:22 ~logs Jun 18 00:59:41 backlog? Jun 18 00:59:46 :) Jun 18 01:01:23 fredrin: you're welcome :) of course, considering how expensive alcohol is in the north, you've now lost a cheap way to get a good buzz ... Jun 18 01:03:35 ~backlog Jun 18 01:03:40 pfff Jun 18 01:03:56 nslu2-log: ? Jun 18 01:04:30 SHR, unable to change gtk-font-name by gtk_rc_parse_string() or ~/.gtkrc-2.0, any ideas? Jun 18 01:05:41 but it works by changing in file /usr/share/themes/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtk-2.0/gtkrc Jun 18 01:07:05 I can confirm it works (change from within program) in SHR distribution released two weeks ago Jun 18 01:10:59 ~log is at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel.txt Jun 18 01:10:59 okay, DocScrutinizer Jun 18 01:11:09 ~logs is at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel.txt Jun 18 01:11:09 okay, DocScrutinizer Jun 18 01:11:10 wpwrak: lol Jun 18 01:11:32 ~tell fredrin about logs Jun 18 01:11:56 :p Jun 18 01:30:46 damn, I feel kinda naked without a suraya/iridium phone for emergencies Jun 18 01:32:03 another cool option for gta04 we were playing with the idea Jun 18 01:32:27 plugin sat modem Jun 18 01:35:00 what about shortwave radio, lol or support for the NEXTEL system, it's popular her in south american and is free to use Jun 18 01:46:58 DocScrutinizer: where are you? Jun 18 01:47:18 on IRC? At home? Jun 18 01:49:14 shortwave isn't the solution for mobile low power get-connected-to-everybody systems Jun 18 01:49:28 I don't know about NEXTEL Jun 18 01:50:38 not sure quite how it works, but i guy from mexico uses it here in argentina to talk to his family in LA for free... but it's more like a walki- talki Jun 18 01:51:15 but you can get with GSM aswell Jun 18 01:52:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialized_Mobile_Radio Jun 18 01:53:32 you know about it? Jun 18 02:03:33 is it possible to have an app that adds like realtime effects to the outgoing sound, like echo, hehe or like helium voice or something Jun 18 02:17:56 oops, s/suraya/thuraya/ ;-P Jun 18 02:17:59 http://www.thuraya.com/en Jun 18 02:49:04 fredrin: NEXTEL won't help any better than plain GSM on nationwide power outages, nasty Ayatollas shutting down all communications, or on really remote locations Jun 18 02:49:44 ah, true Jun 18 02:50:41 fredrin: iridium can be stopped by CIA only, and if that ever happens the Thuraya will say "thank you very much" ;-) Jun 18 02:51:22 i guess mores code is the last resort :) Jun 18 02:52:11 Thuraya even has data plan :) Jun 18 02:52:33 :D Jun 18 02:52:42 dead slow but hey - for twitter it's enough Jun 18 02:53:31 and all this doesn't rely on far end savvy of morse :-P Jun 18 02:56:34 good morning **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 18 02:59:57 2009