**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 05 02:59:58 2009
Sep 05 03:04:53 <DocScrutinizer> are we sure to handle modem uart wakeup correctly, if there is such a think for gprs data channel? probably not
Sep 05 03:05:16 <DocScrutinizer> s/ink/ing/
Sep 05 03:05:17 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer meant: are we sure to handle modem uart wakeup correctly, if there is such a thing for gprs data channel? probably not
Sep 05 03:05:41 <DocScrutinizer> s/ink/ing/
Sep 05 03:05:41 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer meant: are we sure to handle modem uart wakeup correctly, if there is such a thing for gprs data channel? probably not
Sep 05 03:15:23 <AlexC> how do i mount my fr's /dev/mmcblk0 on my desktop?
Sep 05 05:49:51 <blindcoder> alexxy: with a cardreader, or mount it on the fr, then export via nfs
Sep 05 05:50:09 * blindcoder misses Pascals "File of foo" :-(
Sep 05 06:39:31 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: my guess is that "usb charging limit" in SHR Settings is actually usb current limit, so if one switches to 100, all that 100mA go to power the running device itself.
Sep 05 06:56:06 <dcordes> morning
Sep 05 06:59:29 <dcordes> I want a program for freesmarthphone.org 's framework (ogsmd) which does the following: save sms, incmoning calls to file. run entirely in command line mode. run rock stable so you miss nothing. maybe (at some point) have ncursuses gui to browse sms, call events in a way that works well with gnu screen
Sep 05 07:02:31 <dcordes> it must be independent of any X based application so that it can still operate while you have to restart your Xserver or it fails, or you simply use command line only
Sep 05 07:09:30 <PaulFertser> dcordes: probably opimd does what you need?
Sep 05 07:09:44 <PaulFertser> dcordes: and there's opimd-cli interface to it.
Sep 05 07:10:16 <dcordes> PaulFertser, hello
Sep 05 07:10:23 <PaulFertser> dcordes: hi :)
Sep 05 07:10:39 <dcordes> PaulFertser, I will look into this, thanks. is opimd any modem specific?
Sep 05 07:11:02 <dcordes> PaulFertser, I want to operate this on msm7201A based htc kovsky (using qualcomm_msm modem type)
Sep 05 07:11:46 <PaulFertser> dcordes: no, opimd is frameworkd subsystem that is fully modem agnostic.
Sep 05 08:01:09 <khiraly1> hi
Sep 05 08:01:22 <khiraly1> Package util-linux-readprofile wants to install file /usr/sbin/readprofile
Sep 05 08:01:22 <khiraly1> 	But that file is already provided by package  * busybox
Sep 05 08:01:36 <khiraly1> ^^how to solve this?
Sep 05 08:09:49 <khiraly1>  --force-overwrite
Sep 05 08:21:50 <dcordes> PaulFertser, perfect.
Sep 05 08:41:21 <blindcoder> short question, what is the the default BPP in SHR? 16 or 24?
Sep 05 08:42:21 <khiraly1> 24
Sep 05 08:43:22 <blindcoder> thanks
Sep 05 08:43:47 <blindcoder> is there any speed penalty if SDL apps are started with 16 bpp?
Sep 05 08:48:48 <khiraly1> penalty?
Sep 05 08:48:52 <khiraly1> dont think so
Sep 05 08:49:02 <khiraly1> but speed improvements are expected;)
Sep 05 09:31:13 <blindcoder> khiraly1: currently brickshooter runs at roughly 1fps :/
Sep 05 09:31:22 <khiraly1> ;))
Sep 05 09:55:37 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: hey, i've just bought a soldering iron made in Velikie Luki :D
Sep 05 10:20:27 <blindcoder> hrm
Sep 05 10:20:45 <blindcoder> in brickshooter, I now need to do chgrp on installed files
Sep 05 10:20:58 <blindcoder> what is the correct way to do it in the .bb file?
Sep 05 10:21:09 <blindcoder> or should I run bitbake build brickshooter as root?
Sep 05 10:25:28 <blindcoder> okay, bitbake doesn't like being run as root
Sep 05 10:35:52 <soltys> anyone with gta01 here ?
Sep 05 10:38:25 <rhkfin> ANyone know if somewhere int he wiki are instructions how to share internet connection (wlan or gprs) of Freerunner TO laptop over USB?
Sep 05 10:41:10 <blindcoder> rhkfin: I guess mokonnect can do that
Sep 05 10:41:27 <rhkfin> blindcoder: oh, nice
Sep 05 10:41:40 <rhkfin> blindcoder: what are the requirements on the laptop?
Sep 05 10:41:50 <DocScrutinizer> shr-crew: what was the sad storry why shr-full-0808-image vanished from server??
Sep 05 10:42:04 <blindcoder> rhkfin: I guess you need to be able to setup your ip address and default gateway
Sep 05 10:42:18 <rhkfin> blindcoder: ok, thanks
Sep 05 10:44:08 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: do you know how to run chown correctly with bitbake?
Sep 05 10:44:28 <DocScrutinizer> no idea bout bb here
Sep 05 10:44:36 <blindcoder> okay
Sep 05 10:44:49 <DocScrutinizer> never touched that beast
Sep 05 10:45:02 * blindcoder hands Doc a SAN+1 medal
Sep 05 10:45:38 <blindcoder> bitbake doesn't like being run as root, but chmod to another user requires it obviously
Sep 05 10:46:21 <DocScrutinizer> hehehehhehe lol
Sep 05 10:46:38 <blindcoder> http://pastebin.org/15145
Sep 05 10:46:55 <DocScrutinizer> now we finally found reason for *everything* is root on FR
Sep 05 10:47:06 <blindcoder> I tend to believe that
Sep 05 10:47:07 <DocScrutinizer> chown doesn't work
Sep 05 10:47:36 <blindcoder> it's one of the reasons why we just didn't cross compile everything in rock linux :P
Sep 05 10:48:24 <blindcoder> I guess as long as everything in shr is run as root, I can just skip that out of the makefile
Sep 05 10:48:37 * blindcoder wonders, though, what happens once this is fixed?
Sep 05 10:48:46 <DocScrutinizer> sorry for me being sarcastic, but I even thought OE was the first big failure for a basically non-embedded device like FR
Sep 05 10:49:05 <rhkfin> so is the problem that chown is broken and doesn't change the owner or that it need root to be run?
Sep 05 10:49:24 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: I thought the first failure was enlightenment, when there's so many small and fast WMs
Sep 05 10:49:58 <blindcoder> rhkfin: that's not broken, that's what prevents me from making something suid user and then chown root on that file
Sep 05 10:50:25 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: the next was python + gtk, which is... well, none of them are known for speed :P
Sep 05 10:50:57 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: I have a small pygtk script with three buttons that takes 13 seconds to load
Sep 05 10:51:04 <rhkfin> blindcoder: hm - so sorry, didn't get it, what should be different from the current situation? (except the user being non-root) Is something needed to be changed in chown or what?
Sep 05 10:51:53 <blindcoder> rhkfin: basically, the chown command should be replaced by something that doesn't actually run chown, but stores the changes that chown would do and then apply those changes when creating the .ipk file
Sep 05 10:52:07 <rhkfin> blindcoder: ah, ok, understand
Sep 05 10:52:29 <lindi-> blindcoder: is it dynamic uid or static uid?
Sep 05 10:53:21 <blindcoder> lindi-: chgrp games and chown games.games
Sep 05 10:53:43 <lindi-> blindcoder: what defines what uid 'games' user has?
Sep 05 10:53:53 <blindcoder> lindi-: /etc/group
Sep 05 10:53:59 <lindi-> blindcoder: who puts it to /etc/group?
Sep 05 10:54:30 <blindcoder> lindi-: probably the package that /etc/group belongs to
Sep 05 10:54:54 <lindi-> blindcoder: please check if it is always going to be the same uid or not. if you hardcode the uid then your package will break when it changes
Sep 05 10:55:15 <lindi-> blindcoder: (The final binary package is only going to talk about the numeric uid)
Sep 05 10:55:51 <blindcoder> lindi-: I see. Is there an opkg command to search for which package contains a specific file? or do you know which package contains /etc/group?
Sep 05 10:56:49 <blindcoder> lindi-: got it, opkg search
Sep 05 10:57:42 <lindi-> blindcoder: debian docs on the issue are at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s9.2
Sep 05 10:59:27 <blindcoder> lindi-: the uid for games is defined in /usr/share/base-passwd/group.master which is provided by base-passwd
Sep 05 10:59:34 <blindcoder> lindi-: so I'd assume that that uid is always the same
Sep 05 10:59:45 <blindcoder> lindi-: the site you mentioned supports that
Sep 05 11:00:05 <lindi-> blindcoder: well it's debian policy, the distro you use might have different policy
Sep 05 11:01:07 <blindcoder> lindi-: well, the 'games' group has existed on every linux system I've seen so far :)
Sep 05 11:01:33 <blindcoder> lindi-: and as shr also uses a base-passwd package, I assume that this id is not going to change anytime soon
Sep 05 11:02:01 <blindcoder> also, it doesn't really matter if the uid changes
Sep 05 11:02:18 <blindcoder> what I need is write access for everyone running the binary to the highscore file
Sep 05 11:02:50 <blindcoder> so I make the executable chmod 2755 and chgrp the executable and the highscore to the same gid
Sep 05 11:03:21 <blindcoder> it doesn't even matter if the group is mentioned in /etc/group as that is only used for displaying 'userfriendly' names anyway
Sep 05 11:03:51 <blindcoder> what I need is a way to have this group change reflected in the .ipk file
Sep 05 11:03:58 <blindcoder> and the question therefor is: is there a way to do it?
Sep 05 11:04:09 <khiraly1> lindi-: do you have an idea why mount -t nfs does not work under shr unstable?
Sep 05 11:04:13 <lindi-> blindcoder: in debian you just use chown during package build-time
Sep 05 11:04:27 <lindi-> khiraly1: no, "does not work" is also not very good description :)
Sep 05 11:04:28 <blindcoder> lindi-: hrm, but I guess the debian build system runs as root?
Sep 05 11:04:28 <khiraly1> it works fine with om2009, so its clearly shr's fault. But cant investigate more
Sep 05 11:04:33 <lindi-> blindcoder: yep
Sep 05 11:04:36 <lindi-> blindcoder: but you can use fakeroot too
Sep 05 11:04:42 <blindcoder> lindi-: see, bitbake doesn't like being run as root
Sep 05 11:04:50 <khiraly1> lindi-: I can give you any comment output, what you want, just dunno how to debug it more
Sep 05 11:04:53 <lindi-> blindcoder: bitbake probably has its own solution to that
Sep 05 11:05:05 <blindcoder> lindi-: yeah, and that's what I'm looking for :)
Sep 05 11:05:06 <lindi-> khiraly1: i'm not sure I have too much time in that either :/
Sep 05 11:05:32 <khiraly1> I also spended about 4-5 hours on it yesterday (I suspected the bug is on my laptop). But today I reinstalled om2009, and it works great with my laptop, so the bug is on the neo side
Sep 05 11:05:35 <lindi-> khiraly1: nfs works fine in my distro (tm) :P
Sep 05 11:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> what was the sad story why shr-full-0808-image vanished from server??
Sep 05 11:05:52 <blindcoder> khiraly1: which direction do you want to mount?
Sep 05 11:06:03 <blindcoder> khiraly1: fr filesystem on desktop or desktop filesystem on neo?
Sep 05 11:06:08 <lindi-> khiraly1: i am very sure it is not a hardware bug, maybe your kernel or mount are broken in this
Sep 05 11:07:08 <DocScrutinizer> bah, use fuse! ;-)
Sep 05 11:08:07 <DocScrutinizer> for the rest use sftp
Sep 05 11:08:35 <khiraly1> blindcoder: desktop dir mounted on the phone
Sep 05 11:08:48 <khiraly1> DocScrutinizer: there is no fuse or sshfs installed on the phone
Sep 05 11:09:10 <blindcoder> khiraly1: I assume portmap is running on the desktop, so check your dmesg output
Sep 05 11:09:11 <khiraly1> blindcoder:   mount -t nfs 192.168.0.200:/home/lama/Asztal/down/openmoko/paroli  /usr/share/nfs-paroli/
Sep 05 11:09:16 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, no reason. there's opkg ;-)
Sep 05 11:09:22 <blindcoder> khiraly1: is mount  just hanging and doing nothing or is it returning with error?
Sep 05 11:09:35 <khiraly1> blindcoder: it hangs for 5 mins, and returns with no error
Sep 05 11:09:51 <khiraly1> but it works if I reboot into om2009. So the problem cant be on the pc (laptop) side
Sep 05 11:10:03 <DocScrutinizer> kick out dropbear for a decent sshd was promised long ago anyway
Sep 05 11:10:07 <ChristW> Anyone here with whom I can discuss the SHR-U phone gui?
Sep 05 11:10:50 <blindcoder> khiraly1: anything in dmesg about it on both sides? if it works on om2009 I assume portmap is running
Sep 05 11:11:06 <DocScrutinizer> the SHR guys are all hiding. I asked an embarrasing question to them :-P
Sep 05 11:11:38 <bumbl> DocScrutinizer: what did you ask?
Sep 05 11:11:47 <DocScrutinizer> what was the sad story why shr-full-0808-image vanished from server??
Sep 05 11:12:48 <blindcoder> khiraly1: I can reproduce the error here
Sep 05 11:12:55 <blindcoder> khiraly1: I'll try a few things
Sep 05 11:13:28 <khiraly1> DocScrutinizer: I also installed util-linux (replacing busybox's solution), but no help
Sep 05 11:13:51 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly1: for fuse?
Sep 05 11:14:01 <ChristW> It seems that the last 2 days, nothing new has been installed when I run opkg update && opkg upgrade. That seems almost unlikely...
Sep 05 11:14:12 <ChristW> (But that's only a side remark...)
Sep 05 11:15:09 <khiraly1> DocScrutinizer: dunno others suggested, I did it, but no help. If you suggest another package, I will try it
Sep 05 11:15:10 <khiraly1> ;)
Sep 05 11:15:21 <DocScrutinizer> ChristW: I did a list-upgradable yesterday and it showed it plans to install a completely new system (at least thats what it looks like)
Sep 05 11:16:03 <ChristW> DocScrutinizer: I ran update just this minute, and it only installs a new version of Navit (+ speech dispatcher. Grumble.)
Sep 05 11:16:13 <blindcoder> khiraly1: you need to install portmap
Sep 05 11:17:02 <DocScrutinizer> ChristW: well, my last upgrade is some 6 days or more in the past
Sep 05 11:17:25 <ChristW> Ah, ok, this weeks it _did_ almost a full update. So, no worries then...
Sep 05 11:17:29 <blindcoder> khiraly1: you need to install portmap and start it on the neo, after that mount works fine
Sep 05 11:18:02 <DocScrutinizer> ChristW: sorry for the stupid comment: you did a update first?
Sep 05 11:18:08 <blindcoder> khiraly1: portmap seems to not be in the shr-feeds, I built a package here: http://pallas.crash-override.net/~blindcoder/portmap_6.0-r3_armv4t.ipk
Sep 05 11:18:20 <blindcoder> khiraly1: opkg install that, then /etc/init.d/portmap start then mount
Sep 05 11:20:11 <DocScrutinizer> ChristW: opkg update; opkg upgrade
Sep 05 11:20:55 <ChristW> DocScrutinizer: Yes, I have a shell script that also does a swapon/swapoff (Navit upgrade needs it...), so no problem there. Here it is: http://pastebin.com/d293b6715
Sep 05 11:21:29 <DocScrutinizer> ChristW: heh :-D
Sep 05 11:22:26 <ChristW> DocScrutinizer: I named it 'u' to be able to quicly run it in the terminal when using WiFI to connect.
Sep 05 11:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, same here
Sep 05 11:23:06 <khiraly1> blindcoder: thanks, I will try out asap
Sep 05 11:23:15 <khiraly1> and we also need to force shr people to include it
Sep 05 11:23:29 <blindcoder> khiraly1: indeed
Sep 05 11:24:03 <ChristW> WiFi works quite reliably these days. Just after a reboot I am almost always able to connect to my AP and connect to the Internet! SHR Settings -> Connectivity: Wifi: On, and then Mokonnect.
Sep 05 11:26:00 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: mickey framework * r93edef6673e1 /framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: fix org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.GetInfo() implementation
Sep 05 11:26:59 <blindcoder> ChristW: aiui you don't have to enable wifi. as long as mokonnect is running, wifi is enabled
Sep 05 11:27:22 <CIA-53> SHR: david shr-settings * r88d6e639d01b /data/po/gl/ (shr-settings.mo shr-settings.po): [po] update galician translation
Sep 05 11:27:30 <CIA-53> SHR: soltys shr-settings * re7fe54dde7b6 /setup.py: [setup] Galician translation should install now
Sep 05 11:27:31 <CIA-53> SHR: gmary shr-settings * r320c5ad4b63b / (4 files in 3 dirs): [data] Add french translation
Sep 05 11:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> blindcoder: aiui wifi won't even be shut down when you stop mokonnect. That's a false design for sure if it's true
Sep 05 11:31:13 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: not necessarily. but it doesn't include a 'shutdown' button, and THAT is false design
Sep 05 11:31:31 <blindcoder> shutting down mokonnect obviously releases ressources (mem, cpu)
Sep 05 11:31:58 <blindcoder> but it should have a 'shutdown' button for each interface it can manage as well as a 'shutdown all' button
Sep 05 11:33:58 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: mickey specs * rb1d851c40f9f /org.freesmartphone.Device/org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.xml.in: org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.xml: add expected tuples for org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.GetInfo
Sep 05 11:34:29 * ChristW whacks himself around the head with a large trout.
Sep 05 11:34:57 <ChristW> 'The /tmp folder is _not_ a safe place to store files...'
Sep 05 11:35:11 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: personally I'd like to have the shelf buttons toggle the interfaces on/off
Sep 05 11:35:27 <DocScrutinizer> blindcoder: ack
Sep 05 11:35:51 <ChristW> blindcoder: The ones that (can) appear next to the 'qwerty' button?
Sep 05 11:37:35 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: mickey framework * r1648a4afff8b /framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: add list of available scenarios in org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio
Sep 05 11:39:45 <blindcoder> ChristW: yes
Sep 05 11:39:52 <blindcoder> and next to the clock
Sep 05 11:41:13 <ChristW> Having them there would be _very_ nice at least. And enabling WiFi should connect (using wpa_supplicant, probably, since it supports multiple scenarios out-of-the-box (IIRC?)) to the nearest WiFI as well...
Sep 05 11:43:46 <blindcoder> yes
Sep 05 11:44:11 <blindcoder> you jsut define the scenarios to wpa_supplicant.conf and it tries to connect to each one in order of priority
Sep 05 11:45:18 <ChristW> Is there a suggestions page for SHR?
Sep 05 11:46:18 <blindcoder> bug tracker
Sep 05 11:46:19 <ChristW> I can open a ticket in Trac, ofcourse...
Sep 05 11:46:45 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: mickey libeflvala * r6b2cd00f4199 /vapi/elm.vapi: elm.vapi: add Spinner object and additional Scroller API as of upstream SVN rev 42202
Sep 05 11:56:18 <ChristW> blindcoder: Yeah, I pressed 'enter' just as I saw your comment... Trac ticket (#627)  created.
Sep 05 11:58:24 <blindcoder> root@om-gta02 ~ $ file /usr/bin/pstree
Sep 05 11:58:24 <blindcoder> /usr/bin/file: line 142: syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution
Sep 05 11:58:27 <blindcoder> *grunt*
Sep 05 11:58:31 <blindcoder> got this problem recently
Sep 05 11:58:44 <blindcoder> is it a problem because I don't have sim card and contacts to SD card are loose maybe?
Sep 05 11:59:23 <blindcoder> fun: http://pastebin.org/15152
Sep 05 12:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> blindcoder: how could 'file' or '/usr/bin/pstree' relate to sim card or sdcard in any way?
Sep 05 12:11:35 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: shr lives on my sd card
Sep 05 12:11:45 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: and since this happens regularly and to ALL binaries
Sep 05 12:11:51 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: and is fixed after a reboot
Sep 05 12:12:01 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: and the display also goes fubar from time to time
Sep 05 12:12:22 <blindcoder> I thought it might be because contact to sd card isn't good and read errors from fliesystem occur
Sep 05 12:14:52 * blindcoder inserts a sim card for testing
Sep 05 12:15:31 <DocScrutinizer> blindcoder: possible, though you might think the system should fail much more dramatically then when running off a storage device with frequent read errors
Sep 05 12:16:04 <khiraly1> blindcoder:
Sep 05 12:16:08 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: not necessarily. most stuff is in ram already
Sep 05 12:16:25 <khiraly1> /etc/init.d/portmap: line 47: pmap_dump: not found
Sep 05 12:16:25 <khiraly1> /etc/init.d/portmap: line 47: pmap_set: not found
Sep 05 12:16:34 <khiraly1> ^when I start portmap
Sep 05 12:16:38 <blindcoder> o_o
Sep 05 12:16:57 <khiraly1> but it works at least
Sep 05 12:18:14 <blindcoder> hm, I don't have these files either, but they should only be run when /var/run/portmap.upgrade-state exists, which doesn't here
Sep 05 12:18:41 <khiraly1> ok
Sep 05 12:25:45 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: nope, same problem with sim card
Sep 05 12:29:35 <blindcoder> hrm, okay, some more force then: root@fuzzy:~# badblocks -n -v -o badblock.sdb3 /dev/sdb3
Sep 05 12:30:57 <blindcoder> hmm, maybe I can also try putting shr on internal memory (not on SD)
Sep 05 12:33:57 <khiraly1> edje_cc is found in which package?
Sep 05 12:46:47 <khiraly1> edje-utils
Sep 05 12:49:46 <blindcoder> hrm... shouldn't dfu-util be a little faster than 100kB/s on linux?
Sep 05 12:51:54 <khiraly1> blindcoder: dunno, it takes age to finish
Sep 05 12:52:29 <khiraly1> scary thing happened to me. Some things smelled like frying, burning. And maybe it came from the freerunner ...;-\
Sep 05 12:52:41 <khiraly1> dunno, exactly, I cant see nothing suspecious, and dont smell anymore
Sep 05 13:03:15 <DocScrutinizer> blindcoder: something in dfu-util is slow like hell. No idea what it is though, probably the implementation of dfu-protocol and/or NAND-flashing in uBoot
Sep 05 13:05:52 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: okay, so it's not a problem with me doing sth wrong :)
Sep 05 13:06:05 <blindcoder> it's at least WAY faster than when I last flashed on windows :)
Sep 05 13:08:17 <khiraly1> blindcoder: do not flash too often
Sep 05 13:08:19 <khiraly1> ;)
Sep 05 13:08:27 <khiraly1> ahh, your sd card does not work. I see...
Sep 05 13:08:53 <blindcoder> khiraly1: I _assume_ it's the sd card, so I'm trying nand now while doing a badblocks -n scan on the sd card
Sep 05 13:09:16 <khiraly1> Usually it takes 20min to me flashing nand with a distro
Sep 05 13:09:20 <khiraly1> abuot
Sep 05 13:09:34 <blindcoder> if that works, I can use nand and symlink /home/root to sd card for tangogps maps
Sep 05 13:10:00 <khiraly1> blindcoder: would be find the root cause in your case
Sep 05 13:10:08 <khiraly1> if it is really your sd card, which is fucked up
Sep 05 13:10:14 <khiraly1> ie. having badblocks on it
Sep 05 13:10:18 <khiraly1> some kind of proof
Sep 05 13:10:28 <blindcoder> then I can just get a new one for a few euros
Sep 05 13:10:31 <blindcoder> yeah
Sep 05 13:10:44 <blindcoder> or maybe the freerunner just doesn't like SDL :)
Sep 05 13:10:48 <khiraly1> blindcoder: and how can you proove it?
Sep 05 13:10:52 <khiraly1> SDL?
Sep 05 13:10:59 <khiraly1> for me Kingston is working fine
Sep 05 13:11:09 <blindcoder> khiraly1: my freerunner is dying when I play brickshooter
Sep 05 13:11:16 <blindcoder> which uses SDL
Sep 05 13:11:23 <blindcoder> for graphics and sound
Sep 05 13:11:36 <khiraly1> there where some games which used SDL and worked quite nicely
Sep 05 13:12:00 <khiraly1> like  mokomaze
Sep 05 13:12:02 <blindcoder> yeah, well, brickshooter is a bit different. paxed hacked it together in 4 days and I just compiled it for the freerunner ;)
Sep 05 13:12:10 <blindcoder> so basically, it sucks performancewise :)
Sep 05 13:13:07 <blindcoder> okay, rootfs flashed, now kernel
Sep 05 13:13:40 <blindcoder> okay, now booting
Sep 05 13:15:16 <morphis> heyho
Sep 05 13:16:59 <bumbl> hi
Sep 05 13:23:18 <dos1> Slyon: ping
Sep 05 13:23:25 <Slyon> dos1: pong
Sep 05 13:23:44 <dos1> Slyon: i made some changes in shr-today
Sep 05 13:23:48 <dos1> Slyon: but you did too ;)
Sep 05 13:23:52 <Slyon> jap
Sep 05 13:23:58 <dos1> Slyon: so i had merge conflict
Sep 05 13:24:11 <dos1> Slyon: and i don't know how to easly send patches to you
Sep 05 13:24:22 <dos1> Slyon: so i'll send whole files instead of patches, ok?
Sep 05 13:24:41 <dos1> i already merged your stuff inside those files ;)
Sep 05 13:24:49 <Slyon> dos1: are my changes included in the patches? or shall i merge them manually?
Sep 05 13:24:53 <Slyon> ah okay
Sep 05 13:25:20 <Slyon> s/patches/files
Sep 05 13:26:08 <Slyon> dos1: ok, send the files
Sep 05 13:31:28 <UberNeo> is there any bug in A7 except the #1024
Sep 05 13:31:56 <khiraly1> UberNeo: bass fix also required too
Sep 05 13:32:11 <khiraly1> if you want to use your freerunner as a music playe
Sep 05 13:32:14 <khiraly1> r
Sep 05 13:32:34 <UberNeo> but i think with earphones ..there no problem with bass
Sep 05 13:32:53 <khiraly1> no handset -> no problem
Sep 05 13:33:03 <UberNeo> bass prob is only with the speaker
Sep 05 13:33:41 <khiraly1> you are not supposed to expect any bass from the phone speaker
Sep 05 13:33:51 <khiraly1> it is something like a 0.5W speaker
Sep 05 13:33:52 <khiraly1> ;)
Sep 05 13:35:04 <DocScrutinizer> bass problem is with headphones\headset
Sep 05 13:35:05 <blindcoder> so no metallica on my handset? *snif*
Sep 05 13:35:20 <UberNeo> i have heard that A7 have low call volume
Sep 05 13:36:03 <DocScrutinizer> there is the 1uF "0R" problem for earpiece as well, yes
Sep 05 13:37:20 <DocScrutinizer> which is limiting the maximum volume you can have on earpiece
Sep 05 13:37:59 <UberNeo> is there any software fix for low call volume in A7
Sep 05 13:38:01 <tag8tag> does anyone have packaged portmidi lib ?
Sep 05 13:38:21 <DocScrutinizer> this one is almost the easiest fix though: just short the 2 1uF. E.g. with silver varnish
Sep 05 13:38:56 <blindcoder> alright, really seems to be a sd card issue
Sep 05 13:39:08 <blindcoder> doing the same I did before I don't get an error so far
Sep 05 13:39:08 <blindcoder>  2609 root      20   0 19336 6996 2316 R 66.2  5.8   1:41.63 brickshooter
Sep 05 13:39:12 <blindcoder> :-)
Sep 05 13:39:19 <DocScrutinizer> UberNeo: everything that has a sw-fix isn't considered an issue at all. I'm talking about hw issues here
Sep 05 13:39:52 <UberNeo> ok ..so does A6 have this low call volume problem
Sep 05 13:39:56 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: mickey framework * rd53fca8d933f /framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py:
Sep 05 13:39:56 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: odeviced: kernel26: always use ioctls for talking to the realtime clock
Sep 05 13:39:56 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: Warning: API change: This commit brings the exported interface in line with the FSO specs
Sep 05 13:39:59 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: mickey framework * r721044618a57 /framework/subsystems/otimed/alarm.py: otimed: alarm: catch up with API change in kernel26_rtc
Sep 05 13:41:45 <DocScrutinizer> mickeyl: duh! API change of RTC? sounds severe
Sep 05 13:42:44 <mickeyl> not really, just consistency
Sep 05 13:42:51 <mickeyl> the api specs told something else than the implementation
Sep 05 13:42:54 <mickeyl> which is now corrected
Sep 05 13:42:55 <DocScrutinizer> mickeyl: could you elaborate on *which* interface changed exactly, and *how* it changed?
Sep 05 13:43:28 <mickeyl> org.freesmartphone.Device.RealTimeClock changed into org.freesmartphone.Device.RealtimeClock
Sep 05 13:43:34 <mickeyl> and the location of the objects changed from
Sep 05 13:44:00 <mickeyl>  /org/freesmartphone/Device/RealTimeClock/0 into /org/freesmartphone/Device/RTC/0
Sep 05 13:44:29 <mickeyl> fsodeviced did that already
Sep 05 13:44:41 <mickeyl> and i hope that SHR moves to fsodeviced sooner than later
Sep 05 13:44:47 <mickeyl> match now
Sep 05 13:45:03 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, probably fsoatd and ffalarms would want to adopt?
Sep 05 13:45:37 <mickey|sports> yes. and by that chance, i want to look into these two utils, perhaps "adopting" them to ship as part of fso
Sep 05 13:45:49 <mickey|sports> [at least the console utils]
Sep 05 13:45:50 <mickey|sports> bbl
Sep 05 13:45:56 <DocScrutinizer> cya
Sep 05 13:58:55 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: why was full-image-0808 removed from dl site?
Sep 05 13:59:17 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: it was broken
Sep 05 13:59:22 <DocScrutinizer> how?
Sep 05 13:59:28 <dos1> some packages weren't installed correctly
Sep 05 13:59:33 <dos1> files were missing
Sep 05 14:00:06 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I used it all the time since, and seen no severe problems yet - at least wrt that
Sep 05 14:01:42 <blindcoder> hrm
Sep 05 14:01:59 <blindcoder> anyone ever tested what SHR does if a process hogs the cpu? in terms of stability?
Sep 05 14:02:00 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: I really wonder what image users are suggested to use right ATM
Sep 05 14:02:19 <DocScrutinizer> for just "flash and test"
Sep 05 14:02:44 <blindcoder> because that's exactly what brickshooter does right now
Sep 05 14:03:04 <blindcoder> while (SDL_PollEvent(&event)){ ... redraw_screen(); }
Sep 05 14:03:12 <blindcoder> fun :)
Sep 05 14:03:16 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Sep 05 14:03:19 <blindcoder> yeah
Sep 05 14:03:31 <blindcoder> I now added a SDL_WaitEvent(NULL); before most PollEvents
Sep 05 14:03:41 * DocScrutinizer sets brickshooter on the blacklist
Sep 05 14:03:45 <blindcoder> hehehe ;)
Sep 05 14:04:04 <blindcoder> well, it WAS a 4-day hackjob originally
Sep 05 14:04:27 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: shr-lite :P
Sep 05 14:04:30 <blindcoder> now brickshooter doesn't do anything until there is an SDL event
Sep 05 14:08:26 <blindcoder>  2751 root      21   1 19336 6996 2316 S 13.0  5.8   0:18.36 brickshooter
Sep 05 14:08:30 <blindcoder> when doing nothing
Sep 05 14:08:36 <blindcoder> 13% cpu, 5.8^ mem
Sep 05 14:08:53 <blindcoder> down from 68% cpu :P
Sep 05 14:12:14 <Slyon> dos1: what about the files?
Sep 05 14:12:59 <dos1> Slyon: heh, i was 2 days offline
Sep 05 14:13:11 <dos1> Slyon: i'm still reading mails :D
Sep 05 14:14:35 <dos1> Ainulindale, mrmoku|away: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-July/051593.html
Sep 05 14:15:35 <Slyon> dos1: ok^^ i'll have to leave soon. btw what do you think about the default config of shr-today, i think the guy on shr-user ML is right.
Sep 05 14:15:59 <dos1> Slyon: sending it now
Sep 05 14:17:10 <blindcoder> hrm, I really should make a brickshooter-data and separate brickshooter package
Sep 05 14:17:22 <blindcoder> removing and installing a 2 MB ipk always takes ages
Sep 05 14:17:58 <DocScrutinizer> wtf is shr-today? esp wrt default-config?
Sep 05 14:18:27 <dos1> Slyon: sent
Sep 05 14:18:39 <dos1> Slyon: place png files in data/ ;)
Sep 05 14:18:52 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: if i get it right, it's a screenlocking 'today' application
Sep 05 14:19:10 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Sep 05 14:19:14 <DocScrutinizer> thnx
Sep 05 14:19:37 <Slyon> dos1: thanks
Sep 05 14:20:40 <dos1> Slyon: and i don't agree about config
Sep 05 14:20:47 <dos1> actual one is the best for me :P
Sep 05 14:21:14 <DocScrutinizer> and I tough we might actually see a up-to-date image built "today". Alas I'm wrong
Sep 05 14:21:35 <blindcoder> hehehe
Sep 05 14:21:46 <blindcoder> come on, you're not usually THAT optimistic ;)
Sep 05 14:21:52 <Slyon> dos1: actual one is best for me, too. But i think for a user it isn't the best. if aux would be free, it could be used for sth else
Sep 05 14:22:05 * DocScrutinizer doewn't even dare to ask what are plans with shr-texting 
Sep 05 14:22:39 <dos1> Slyon: for user it's best, as "typical user" won't use aux for anything else
Sep 05 14:22:45 <dos1> Slyon: power user can disable that in config
Sep 05 14:22:52 <DocScrutinizer> shr-testing even
Sep 05 14:23:54 <Slyon> dos1: ok, i'll let it like it is
Sep 05 14:26:49 <blindcoder> okay, now off to find out why brickshooter has <1 % cpu on my laptop but ~15% on the freerunner when waiting for event
Sep 05 14:27:55 <DocScrutinizer> blindcoder: perhaps because your laptop is much faster?
Sep 05 14:28:15 <blindcoder> DocScrutinizer: that's my first idea, but when it's basically just waiting for something to happen, 15% still seems much
Sep 05 14:28:43 <DocScrutinizer> when just waiting, everytjin >0% is too much
Sep 05 14:28:48 <blindcoder> exactly
Sep 05 14:31:32 <blindcoder> meh
Sep 05 14:31:40 <blindcoder> " - internally, it's not event-driven, but *really* poll-driven, with a small sleep to make it not a full-on busy-wait, compromising between eating the CPU alive and increasing the latency of event delivery
Sep 05 14:31:48 <blindcoder> guess there's my 15% coming from
Sep 05 14:33:30 <Slyon> dos1: pushed the changes, i also cought up with the latest rtc api changes from mickey ~1h ago, so it needs newest framework to work
Sep 05 14:33:43 <dos1> Slyon: i'll build whole feed soon
Sep 05 14:33:44 <dos1> ;)
Sep 05 14:33:54 <Slyon> dos1: perfectly :)
Sep 05 14:37:48 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: build an image!
Sep 05 14:38:31 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: i tried some time ago, and it failed ;P
Sep 05 14:39:02 <DocScrutinizer> so that's satisfactory then?
Sep 05 14:39:31 <DocScrutinizer> s/factory/fying/
Sep 05 14:39:31 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer meant: so that's satisfying then?
Sep 05 14:42:35 <UberNeo> does anybody have #1024 fix pic
Sep 05 14:43:01 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: then bug mrmoku|away to return earlier :P
Sep 05 14:43:10 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: or Ainulindale to not being busy with other things
Sep 05 14:43:12 <dos1> ;)
Sep 05 14:43:51 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: for sure I won't bug Ainu with anything. He wouldn't listen anyway
Sep 05 14:44:26 <DocScrutinizer> and that's just the best of my options for response I might see
Sep 05 14:51:37 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: i'll start building images overnight
Sep 05 14:51:49 <dos1> but i'm rather sure it'll fail :P
Sep 05 14:52:49 <tag8tag> I don't know if its ok but make image reports a lot of 404
Sep 05 14:52:53 <UberNeo> can anybody explain me this pic http://people.openmoko.org/werner/1024-done.jpg
Sep 05 15:01:33 <dos1> Ainulindale: what about giving me access to patchwork? there are patches for shr-settings and opimd-utils
Sep 05 15:08:24 <PaulFertser> UberNeo: what exactly?
Sep 05 15:24:21 <khiraly11> hi
Sep 05 15:24:23 <khiraly11> dos1: ping
Sep 05 15:32:27 <dos1> khiraly11: pong
Sep 05 15:33:28 <khiraly11> dos1: opimd documentation is at PIM API?
Sep 05 15:33:33 <khiraly11> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.PIM.Source.html;hb=HEAD
Sep 05 15:33:34 <khiraly11> ^^
Sep 05 15:33:51 <khiraly11> so is opimd org.freesmartphone.PIM ?
Sep 05 15:34:24 <alexxy> dos1: hi
Sep 05 15:34:42 <alexxy> dos1: can you add Surname field for opimd-contacts by default?
Sep 05 15:35:00 <dos1> alexxy: it's already supported by default
Sep 05 15:35:13 <dos1> khiraly11: yup, but there are few new methods missing
Sep 05 15:35:23 <khiraly11> aham
Sep 05 15:35:23 <alexxy> its supported but only after i add it for newly created contacts
Sep 05 15:35:49 <alexxy> dos1: also i created ru translation for soem parts for opimd-utils
Sep 05 15:36:13 <dos1> khiraly11: it just needs to be updated
Sep 05 15:37:07 <khiraly11> dos1: does it make sense to have a daemon which executes jobs based on events (gprs, wifi, usb, battery inserted, timeout (ie. alarm))
Sep 05 15:37:21 <khiraly11> it would launch simple script files when an event occure
Sep 05 15:37:24 <dos1> khiraly11: no
Sep 05 15:38:14 <khiraly11> elaborate please
Sep 05 15:38:49 <dos1> khiraly11: frameworkd already can do that :P
Sep 05 15:39:03 <khiraly11> continue...
Sep 05 15:39:05 <khiraly11> im listening
Sep 05 15:39:32 <khiraly11> the goal is having simple dbus unaware scripts to be launchable based on some events
Sep 05 15:44:34 <dos1> khiraly11: that's just cutted rules engine
Sep 05 15:44:58 <khiraly11> cutted rules engine?
Sep 05 15:45:01 <khiraly11> what is it?
Sep 05 15:45:19 <dos1> i know oeventsd isn't perfect, but we need its successor :P
Sep 05 15:45:42 <dos1> khiraly11: cutted.. well, my english isn't good ;P
Sep 05 15:45:55 <dos1> i mean something limited
Sep 05 15:46:17 <khiraly11> ok, how can it be done the above exercise?
Sep 05 15:46:25 <khiraly11> writing an fso daemon?
Sep 05 15:46:33 <khiraly11> using some rules to launch a dispatcher script?
Sep 05 15:46:47 <khiraly11> and write rules for launch this script for almost all events?
Sep 05 15:47:36 <blindcoder> GRAH, why is ssh on the neo so crappy...
Sep 05 15:48:23 <blindcoder> whenever there's more than little text output, my session gets disconnected
Sep 05 15:48:39 <dos1> khiraly11: you can do that in oeventsd (rules.yaml) at the moment ;P
Sep 05 15:49:24 <khiraly11> so I write rules for events, and it launch my script. Then I decide all the remaining things in that script
Sep 05 16:07:55 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: what do you want to decide more than oventsd already did?
Sep 05 16:08:23 <khiraly11> I want to have directories like this
Sep 05 16:08:46 <khiraly11> events/gprs/firsttoexecute.sh
Sep 05 16:08:57 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: maybe time-of-day, for starting different ringtone, or what?
Sep 05 16:09:01 <khiraly11> events/usb/executemyscripttoo.sh
Sep 05 16:09:13 <khiraly11> DocScrutinizer: nope. I have two usecases
Sep 05 16:09:53 <khiraly11> 1. My gps app does not have some of the tiles, and he is currently offline (but could be online too). So I put a script containing all wget commands with the tilenames to fetch next time when the device is online
Sep 05 16:10:42 <khiraly11> 2. Intone want to request some lyrics and albumart. I have a script (already done) which can download lyrics. So just put into the dir, to execute it when we are connected
Sep 05 16:11:05 <khiraly11> so thats way, on the program side almost no effort is required (ie. does not need to write a daemon to handle these kind of things)
Sep 05 16:11:17 <khiraly11> just create a script and put into a predefined folder
Sep 05 16:11:35 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: seems if-up.sh is the right place to insert things like these
Sep 05 16:11:59 <khiraly11> DocScrutinizer: not really. I want to distinguish between gprs, wifi, usb
Sep 05 16:12:14 <khiraly11> And also I do want some script to be launched when timeouts happens
Sep 05 16:12:35 <khiraly11> like the cron, just with fso. It has an alarm interface
Sep 05 16:12:38 <DocScrutinizer> timeouts?
Sep 05 16:12:47 <khiraly11> just I want to write some plain dbus unaware scripts to be launched
Sep 05 16:12:59 <khiraly11> yeah, launch a script in 7 hour
Sep 05 16:13:30 <DocScrutinizer> what's wrong with fsoatd for that?
Sep 05 16:13:44 <khiraly11> why not one daemon to handle all the above usecases?
Sep 05 16:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> why not invent a kernel to do all that generically ;-P
Sep 05 16:14:56 <DocScrutinizer> why not build airplanes out of ice?
Sep 05 16:15:00 <khiraly11> ok. bbl
Sep 05 16:19:04 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: if you really want an answer to that: a deamon probably needs to run as root, and your actions *are supposed* to come from NON-root (as map tiles and lyrics are userland issues - at least eventually the will be, or so I hope)
Sep 05 16:19:47 <khiraly11> there is no root vs. non-root issue on freerunner currently ...
Sep 05 16:19:58 <DocScrutinizer> also it's not best practice to write such a basic thing like a daemon for your custom tailored needs
Sep 05 16:20:04 <dos1> khiraly11: currently.
Sep 05 16:20:39 <dos1> "let's do something wrong, because it doesn't matter if it's good or bad with current situation"? :P
Sep 05 16:20:53 <DocScrutinizer> (not currently) yeah, and it's devels like you who will complain most and whine once this major issue is finally getting a fix
Sep 05 16:21:09 <khiraly11> DocScrutinizer: it is not really custom tailored, as I already gave you three valid usecase. Two for intone and one for gps app
Sep 05 16:21:51 <blindcoder> as a user, I like the idea of auto-downloading missing maps later
Sep 05 16:21:58 <blindcoder> as personally, I don't have a data plan
Sep 05 16:22:04 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: and we told you there are means to handle that generically, not the customed way you suggested though
Sep 05 16:22:34 <khiraly11> DocScrutinizer: and what would be the generic way:,
Sep 05 16:22:35 <khiraly11> ?
Sep 05 16:22:52 <DocScrutinizer> ovenetsd, fsoatd
Sep 05 16:23:34 <DocScrutinizer> and the whole pppd and siblings / childs
Sep 05 16:25:44 <khiraly11> but for them I need to write a program which listen on dbus, no?
Sep 05 16:28:06 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: see mdbus and fsoatd specs/docs, yaml-rules for (fs)oeventsd, and if-up/down etc pp scripts
Sep 05 16:28:41 <khiraly11> I would like to find a document which explain the difference between fsoeventsd and oeventsd
Sep 05 16:30:17 <DocScrutinizer> first one is new (vala), second one old (python) version - aiui
Sep 05 16:32:08 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: if all that isn't enough for your demanding needs, have a look at ologicd. I heard it's even a better place to accomplish tasks like the one you described (or will be eventually)
Sep 05 16:40:33 <dos1> there is no fsoeventsd now
Sep 05 16:40:48 <dos1> there is ptitjes' ologicd
Sep 05 16:41:04 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: why not simply start a script that: sleeps 1 min, checks if there are download requests, if no restarts; pings a welknown URL, on failure  restarts; on success starts all your downloads, resets the requests, and restarts ?
Sep 05 16:41:22 <khiraly11> DocScrutinizer: because I dont want to download on expensive gprs
Sep 05 16:42:02 <khiraly11> and why start an another daemon? (what you wrote is a simple daemon)
Sep 05 16:42:03 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: oh man! then include a test if you're on gprs
Sep 05 16:42:26 <khiraly11> if fso is already running all the time, why write an another daemon?
Sep 05 16:42:59 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: because fso seems not the tool you like to use
Sep 05 16:43:22 <khiraly11> i do like to use, if its suits the above usecases
Sep 05 16:43:41 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: please backscroll, using fso was exactly what we suggested to you
Sep 05 16:44:05 <DocScrutinizer> but seems you are allergic to it
Sep 05 16:49:54 <khiraly11> hehh
Sep 05 16:50:21 <khiraly11> (17.38.48) dos1: khiraly11: frameworkd already can do that :P
Sep 05 16:50:21 <khiraly11> (17.39.03) khiraly11: continue...
Sep 05 16:50:21 <khiraly11> (17.39.05) khiraly11: im listening
Sep 05 16:50:46 <dos1> khiraly11: hmm?
Sep 05 16:50:47 <khiraly11> ^^ Im not allergic at all
Sep 05 16:50:54 <dos1> khiraly11: i already described it
Sep 05 16:51:57 <khiraly11> yepp, write rules to launch my script what decide after what to do
Sep 05 16:52:03 <khiraly11> ok. Understood.
Sep 05 17:00:33 <Q-Master> hi all!
Sep 05 18:02:31 <khiraly11> dos1: ping
Sep 05 18:02:40 <dos1> khiraly11: pong
Sep 05 18:02:40 <khiraly11> dos1: could you please update opimd interface docs?
Sep 05 18:03:04 <dos1> well, i think i have other things to update firstly
Sep 05 18:03:16 <dos1> and it isn't so important, as the same data you can get with mdbus
Sep 05 18:03:19 <khiraly11> or how can I browse this docs?:
Sep 05 18:03:21 <khiraly11> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.PIM.Source.html;hb=HEAD
Sep 05 18:03:42 <dos1> khiraly11: http://docs.freesmartphone.org/
Sep 05 18:03:59 <khiraly11> yepp, I was there. Is it the latest?
Sep 05 18:04:24 <khiraly11> because it redirects to: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/index.html;hb=HEAD
Sep 05 18:07:11 <dos1> khiraly11: so? that's ok
Sep 05 18:07:16 <dos1> latest written down :P
Sep 05 18:07:24 <khiraly11> is it the latest?
Sep 05 18:11:15 <dos1> larsc: latest written down
Sep 05 18:11:21 <dos1> larsc: sorry, not for you
Sep 05 18:11:23 <dos1> khiraly11: ^^^
Sep 05 18:11:34 <khiraly11> ok
Sep 05 18:13:44 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: Velikie Luki is shit :(
Sep 05 18:14:27 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: the thread used for the screw that holds the tip in place is fubared...
Sep 05 18:14:52 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: now i'll probably use traditional russian method: make there another, bigger thread, find another bigger screw...
Sep 05 18:17:17 <khiraly11> solderin iron?
Sep 05 18:17:21 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: yes
Sep 05 18:17:27 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: i paid ~$10 for it
Sep 05 18:18:41 <khiraly11> http://www.hqelektronik.hu/info/hu/sold_iron_n.html
Sep 05 18:18:45 <khiraly11> I have this one for 10$
Sep 05 18:18:57 <khiraly11> it is a weller replica, and works great
Sep 05 18:19:26 <khiraly11> however I needed to build a station for it (temperature controller. It displays digitally the temp of the soldering iron)
Sep 05 18:19:53 <khiraly11> ok, its 12$, but anyway
Sep 05 18:32:53 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: well, if i come to hungary, i'll buy that one..
Sep 05 18:33:30 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: is it compatible with some tips i can easily obtain?
Sep 05 18:33:38 <khiraly11> the beauty of this, is the tip is excellent quality.
Sep 05 18:33:48 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: I think weller is compatible with
Sep 05 18:34:24 <khiraly11> i have bought all kind of tip for it, but none of them weared out
Sep 05 18:34:28 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: do you have a link to temp controller schematics? Probably that's way to go.
Sep 05 18:34:49 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: because in my local shop i can also buy something very similar to that.
Sep 05 18:34:51 <khiraly11> cheap soldering iron have only a bimetal in it
Sep 05 18:35:19 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: ok. I'll search for it. There is also an atmega for measuring the temp
Sep 05 18:35:46 <khiraly11> but you can build without it (then you will not have feedback of the temperature)
Sep 05 18:35:57 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: the one i bought is ceramic
Sep 05 18:36:03 <UberNeo> where do i find the circuit diagram for GTA02
Sep 05 18:36:15 <khiraly11> UberNeo: on the wiki
Sep 05 18:36:15 <PaulFertser> UberNeo: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/
Sep 05 18:36:23 <khiraly11> ceramic?
Sep 05 18:36:31 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: yes
Sep 05 18:36:42 <UberNeo> it has only 1
Sep 05 18:36:46 <khiraly11> the point is, you need four wires. two for heating and two for temperature feedback
Sep 05 18:36:48 <UberNeo> any other place with details
Sep 05 18:36:54 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: so?
Sep 05 18:37:08 <khiraly11> ok, I didnt understand the ceramic part
Sep 05 18:37:15 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: the thing you bought had already all that four on the jack, right?
Sep 05 18:37:27 <khiraly11> yepp
Sep 05 18:37:47 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: how did you calibrate the temperature readings?
Sep 05 18:37:53 <UberNeo> GTA02 Circuit please in detail..
Sep 05 18:38:11 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: and what is the main principle of controlling current in your thing?
Sep 05 18:38:16 <PaulFertser> UberNeo: i gave you the link with that.
Sep 05 18:38:23 <PaulFertser> UberNeo: go to the schematics directory there
Sep 05 18:38:50 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: I have a digital multimeter what can have a temperature reading device for it (dunno the exact english term. a small metal point at the end of cable)
Sep 05 18:39:03 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: yes
Sep 05 18:39:09 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: temp sensor
Sep 05 18:39:13 <khiraly11> yepp
Sep 05 18:39:30 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: most probably thermistor
Sep 05 18:39:30 <khiraly11> so I calibrated the station using the temp sensor
Sep 05 18:39:39 <khiraly11> so its more or less accurate
Sep 05 18:39:55 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: oh, so your sensor can sustain ~300C, that's nice
Sep 05 18:40:02 <khiraly11> yepp
Sep 05 18:40:12 <khiraly11> its metal
Sep 05 18:40:20 <khiraly11> http://www.hqelektronik.hu/info/hu/sold_sl_sr_621.html
Sep 05 18:40:25 <khiraly11> http://www.hqelektronik.hu/info/hu/sold_sl_sr_623.html
Sep 05 18:40:33 <khiraly11> http://www.hqelektronik.hu/info/hu/sold_sl_sr_626.html
Sep 05 18:40:39 <khiraly11> I bought tips like this^^
Sep 05 18:40:54 <khiraly11> 0.4mm at the end! its pretty small
Sep 05 18:41:03 <khiraly11> each costs 2$
Sep 05 18:41:17 <khiraly11> weller's one costs 7-8$ here
Sep 05 18:41:30 <khiraly11> and it is durable about the same
Sep 05 18:41:46 <khiraly11> one of my friend built this, because the tip is cheaper then for the weller;))
Sep 05 18:42:03 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: and you say you don't have proper smd equipment after all ;)
Sep 05 18:42:25 <khiraly11> because for smd I need smd paste
Sep 05 18:42:28 <khiraly11> not plain solder
Sep 05 18:42:39 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: that's wrong assumption
Sep 05 18:42:54 <khiraly11> I said, if I use normal solder its really pain to remove it
Sep 05 18:43:03 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: even leaded solder will do (though professionals advice against it)
Sep 05 18:43:22 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: soldering paste is just solder pre-mixed with flux
Sep 05 18:43:34 <khiraly11> but has a lower melting point
Sep 05 18:43:35 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: after the part is soldered it's no different
Sep 05 18:43:54 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: leaded solder has a lower melting point, led-free has the same melting point as the paste.
Sep 05 18:44:16 <DocScrutinizer> UberNeo: what's wrong with http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/gta02 ??
Sep 05 18:44:33 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: and even if you have only leaded solder you can still warm up the iron the melting point of lead-free, with that you'll melt both leaded and lead-free obviously.
Sep 05 18:44:39 <UberNeo> no i got it ..
Sep 05 18:44:42 <UberNeo> its gud
Sep 05 18:44:50 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: so, what's the main principle of controlling heat in your station?
Sep 05 18:46:16 <DocScrutinizer> there's another principle, which is using a PTC for heating as well as sensing temp. Needs only 2 wires
Sep 05 18:47:27 <khiraly11> http://www.hobbielektronika.hu/kapcsolasok/forrasztoallomas.html
Sep 05 18:47:33 <khiraly11> http://www.hobbielektronika.hu/kapcsolasok/forrasztoallomas_digitalis_homerseklet-kijelzessel.html
Sep 05 18:47:43 <DocScrutinizer> basically you can do this with about every iron, as each simple wire is a PTC
Sep 05 18:47:48 <khiraly11> original and the one with digital display of the temperatur reading
Sep 05 18:48:16 <khiraly11> http://www.hobbielektronika.hu/kapcsolasok/files/83/kapcsolasirajz.gif
Sep 05 18:48:25 <khiraly11> ^^ schematic for the heating part
Sep 05 18:49:04 <khiraly11> there is ready made pcb printings, you simply need to iron it and etch in FeCl solution
Sep 05 18:49:58 <khiraly11> on the schematic: 'BE' = IN, and 'KI' = OUT
Sep 05 18:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> grrr, forumnokia newsletter announces N900 for 2009-09-27 @ 500€, but nokia webshop says 2009-10-01 and asks for 599 bucks ;-((
Sep 05 18:51:05 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: here is the pcb for ironing it: http://www.hobbielektronika.hu/kapcsolasok/files/83/panel3_3.pdf
Sep 05 18:51:16 <khiraly11> any other questions?;)
Sep 05 18:51:45 <khiraly11> in the hungarian article there are many high quality photos. So worth of reading it
Sep 05 18:52:13 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: well, now i need to contact guy who's already mastered what we call "iron-laser technology".
Sep 05 18:52:34 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, what's kapcsolasok ?
Sep 05 18:52:52 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: what's wrong with using leaded solder in case your soldering iron is set to the melting temperature of a lead-free one?
Sep 05 18:52:56 <khiraly11> kapcsolasok = schematics
Sep 05 18:53:20 <khiraly11> printing out on laser printer and ironig it to the pcb, and etching finally
Sep 05 18:53:26 <khiraly11> thats the method what I use myself
Sep 05 18:53:32 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, I've been told you shouldn't do that
Sep 05 18:53:53 <DocScrutinizer> probably it's a minor issue
Sep 05 18:54:28 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: i know that, we use it all the time. Just i've never tried
Sep 05 18:54:40 <khiraly11> I can give you advises
Sep 05 18:54:43 <DocScrutinizer> lead tends to oxidize with too high iron temp
Sep 05 18:54:48 <khiraly11> especially what paper to use
Sep 05 18:55:02 <DocScrutinizer> flux burns (quicker)
Sep 05 18:55:06 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: can you confirm that for reworking smt one don't need SMT paste? khiraly11 is concerned about it.
Sep 05 18:55:31 <DocScrutinizer> nah, never seen anybody use paste for reworks
Sep 05 18:55:52 <khiraly11> DocScrutinizer: I think paste has a lower melting point. Can you confirm?
Sep 05 18:55:59 <DocScrutinizer> except if you are going to reflow
Sep 05 18:55:59 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: yeah, yeah, all that are minor issues... i've never seen regular leaded solder oxidized that too much and flux... Well, you need the flux anyway.
Sep 05 18:56:19 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly11: not to my knowledge
Sep 05 18:56:20 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: you'll need flux if you're soldering QFN in a reflow oven.
Sep 05 18:58:01 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: s/flux/smt paste/
Sep 05 18:58:14 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Sep 05 18:58:40 <DocScrutinizer> you don't want to use paste with iron anyway
Sep 05 18:58:59 <DocScrutinizer> cya
Sep 05 18:59:04 <alexxy> dos1: does opimd-messages suports long sms?
Sep 05 18:59:06 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: you can even use a small injector to apply it instead of special template.
Sep 05 18:59:10 * DocScrutinizer ->dinner
Sep 05 18:59:16 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: enjoy your meal :)
Sep 05 18:59:57 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: I use this paper for ironing: http://www.avery.hu/avery/index.nsf/v_data_by_id/AID76U83U193U82U54U66U84U70U75U88U?OpenDocument
Sep 05 19:00:07 <khiraly11> cant find it in english;-\
Sep 05 19:00:32 <dos1> alexxy: no
Sep 05 19:00:33 <khiraly11> normally you use it to address many letters... I use the back cover of it
Sep 05 19:00:39 <dos1> alexxy: that's opimd who supports it :P
Sep 05 19:00:47 <dos1> alexxy: and opimd-messages gains it for free
Sep 05 19:00:51 <alexxy> realy?
Sep 05 19:00:56 <dos1> alexxy: (for incoming messages)
Sep 05 19:01:05 <alexxy> then why i cannot send long sms?
Sep 05 19:01:19 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: i'll ask somebody to do the pcb for me anyway
Sep 05 19:01:22 <dos1> alexxy: as it's about 4 lines of code, and i'm too lazy to write it ;P
Sep 05 19:01:31 <dos1> alexxy: and sending has nothing to do with opimd
Sep 05 19:01:49 <dos1> alexxy: well, your question was bad
Sep 05 19:01:58 <dos1> alexxy: as that's opimd_reply who sends messages
Sep 05 19:02:03 <dos1> alexxy: opimd-messages only displays
Sep 05 19:02:09 <alexxy> i know =)
Sep 05 19:02:38 <dos1> and well, when i'll think "hey, dos, sending long smses is necessary for you!" then i'll implement it :P
Sep 05 19:02:41 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: if you decide that you want to do yourself, I can teach you;)
Sep 05 19:02:44 <dos1> ~opimd-utils
Sep 05 19:02:45 <bzzbot> i heard opimd-utils is not phone suite, it's only set of test scripts for developers. You can use it as phone apps, but without any warranty. Many things are not implemented, *AND THEY PROBABLY WON'T BE*.
Sep 05 19:02:46 <alexxy> i think opimd-messages works much better then shr-messages
Sep 05 19:02:50 <dos1> ;)
Sep 05 19:02:55 <khiraly11> pcb with through hole components is childplay
Sep 05 19:03:52 <alexxy> dos1: but opimd-utils are much better then shr-contacts and shr-messages
Sep 05 19:03:54 <alexxy> =)
Sep 05 19:04:39 <dos1> alexxy: that's only side-effect :D
Sep 05 19:04:45 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: ok, thanks.
Sep 05 19:05:05 <alexxy> that they realy need is dialler app =)
Sep 05 19:05:29 <alexxy> also i cannot send messages with opimd-utils to contacts that not in adressbook
Sep 05 19:05:53 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: why is that scheme uses AC for input? Is it the requirement of the iron or just it can work both on AC and DC and so you don't need to make a high-power rectifier after a traditional transformer 220<->18-24?
Sep 05 19:06:01 <dos1> alexxy: dialer app in opimd-utils? why for? :P
Sep 05 19:06:12 <dos1> opimd isn't placing calls ;P
Sep 05 19:06:26 <alexxy> because standart shr one doesnt works with opimd contacts
Sep 05 19:06:33 <dos1> alexxy: read it:
Sep 05 19:06:35 <dos1> ~opimd-utils
Sep 05 19:06:35 <bzzbot> i heard opimd-utils is not phone suite, it's only set of test scripts for developers. You can use it as phone apps, but without any warranty. Many things are not implemented, *AND THEY PROBABLY WON'T BE*.
Sep 05 19:06:36 <dos1> ;P
Sep 05 19:06:39 <alexxy> dos1: also another qustion
Sep 05 19:06:53 <alexxy> can i add ore then one phone number to opimd contact?
Sep 05 19:07:17 <dos1> and sending messages to people outside contact list won't be implemented by me ;P
Sep 05 19:07:35 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: the problem is: i'm very bad at making decent cases for equipment. I can easily implement the scheme on a prototype board (for soldering) but i can't make a case... Also is the connector for that iron was easy to get for you?
Sep 05 19:07:36 <dos1> as i don't need it and it's not necessary to tests at all
Sep 05 19:07:46 <alexxy> dos1: opimd-messages render long sms as its parts
Sep 05 19:07:50 <dos1> alexxy: about more than one number: just try it
Sep 05 19:07:55 <dos1> alexxy: hmm?
Sep 05 19:08:00 <dos1> alexxy: here it works
Sep 05 19:08:06 <alexxy> not for me
Sep 05 19:08:18 <dos1> alexxy: what about opimd-notifier?
Sep 05 19:08:30 <alexxy> may be becaus sms contains unicode characters?
Sep 05 19:08:39 <alexxy> dos1: same for opimd-notifyer
Sep 05 19:08:42 <dos1> hmm, i don't think so
Sep 05 19:08:56 <dos1> alexxy: try to restart opimd-messages
Sep 05 19:10:18 <alexxy> after restart all are the same
Sep 05 19:10:57 <dos1> alexxy: how did you send that message?
Sep 05 19:11:11 <alexxy> its providers message with some info
Sep 05 19:11:26 <dos1> alexxy: is it rendered correctly in other phones? ;P
Sep 05 19:11:38 <dos1> (correctly = merged into one message)
Sep 05 19:11:38 <alexxy> it consists of 4 parts
Sep 05 19:11:53 <dos1> well, if it's not CSM, then it won't be merged into one sms
Sep 05 19:11:59 <alexxy> yep it renders correctly on my old siemens
Sep 05 19:12:25 <dos1> then that's probably something different with that messages from operator
Sep 05 19:12:34 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: also i can buy some chinese soldering station for ~$50. For a self-made soldering station i'd need a good board, a case, an LCD or led display to set/control temperature, a knob, a switch... To calibrate it etc. And my case would end up really crappy and i'll need some decent holder for iron etc etc. But if i buy chinese station it'll work out of the box and if it brakes i'll just rework it.
Sep 05 19:12:36 <dos1> and fso can't recognize it as csm
Sep 05 19:12:49 <dos1> alexxy: can you dump all fields of those messages with opimd-cli?
Sep 05 19:12:54 <dos1> and send it to me?
Sep 05 19:14:02 <PaulFertser> Man, that fucking soldering iron i bought today demotivated me :( shit
Sep 05 19:15:25 <UberNeo> does ceramic capacitor also have positive and ground
Sep 05 19:15:37 <UberNeo> or we can use anyside as ground
Sep 05 19:16:46 <alexxy> dos1: ok i can try
Sep 05 19:17:33 <khiraly11> (21.12.34) PaulFertser: khiraly11: also i can buy some chinese soldering station for ~$50.
Sep 05 19:17:54 <khiraly11> doh, you can buy the above brand for 50$
Sep 05 19:17:54 <khiraly11> http://www.hqelektronik.hu/info/hu/sold_sl20n.html
Sep 05 19:18:02 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: so why did you made one yourself?
Sep 05 19:18:37 <alexxy> dos1: http://dpaste.com/89978/
Sep 05 19:18:49 <alexxy> i saw this in frameworkd.log
Sep 05 19:19:12 <khiraly11> PaulFertser: because it has only a led bar display;)
Sep 05 19:22:09 <khiraly11> i thought I can make it cheaper
Sep 05 19:23:59 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: funny thing i can buy any soldering station, even original welleman for its stock price and most probably it won't change anything in my life.
Sep 05 19:24:01 <dos1> alexxy: message nacked... hmm
Sep 05 19:24:07 <dos1> alexxy: is it repeatable?
Sep 05 19:24:11 <alexxy> yep
Sep 05 19:24:19 <roh> get a weller temptronic. either 24V or 230V directly.. as you please
Sep 05 19:24:42 <roh> like this: http://www.pkelektronik.com/index.asp?ProductID=1634
Sep 05 19:24:50 <khiraly11> it won't change anything in my life. <-- hmm?
Sep 05 19:24:58 <roh> <80E and it 'works' forever
Sep 05 19:24:59 <khiraly11> what you expect from a soldering station?
Sep 05 19:25:27 <PaulFertser> khiraly11: i mean i won't need to eat less or something like that
Sep 05 19:25:29 <roh> no 'play' in mechanics, available, good and longlife tips, and availabe spareparts.
Sep 05 19:26:21 <khiraly11> roh: the tips are really expensive for weller imho
Sep 05 19:26:31 <roh> worth the money
Sep 05 19:26:52 <alexxy> http://pastebin.ca/1555190
Sep 05 19:26:56 <PaulFertser> roh: tried downloading pdf from that site, it requires a password :-o
Sep 05 19:27:02 <roh> i even do smd works with mine and that one is older than me
Sep 05 19:27:04 <alexxy> dos1: full frameworkd.log ^^
Sep 05 19:27:54 <PaulFertser> roh: how to control temperature with that one?
Sep 05 19:29:35 <roh> http://www.coopertools.eu/page/showPage/lang/en/pageId/45/p/4631/
Sep 05 19:29:40 <roh> PaulFertser change the tips
Sep 05 19:30:07 <roh> the tip has a small magnet welded to the end. that one 'looses' its mageticity at a defined temperature, so the switch opens
Sep 05 19:30:36 <PaulFertser> roh: i see
Sep 05 19:30:41 <roh> simple and reliable concept. and one can get even a burned out heater or temperature-switch as sparepart
Sep 05 19:30:45 <PaulFertser> roh: i can read wikipages, thanks ;)
Sep 05 19:31:00 <PaulFertser> roh: cool novel approach
Sep 05 19:31:06 <roh> i usually use a '7' tip, which is 370°C
Sep 05 19:31:16 <md2k7> wow, cool
Sep 05 19:31:24 <md2k7> altough not very convenient to switch hot tips
Sep 05 19:31:45 <roh> mine is a 24W volt version which got several spare parts within the last 15 years or so using it.
Sep 05 19:31:54 <roh> eh 24V, 50W
Sep 05 19:32:23 <roh> md2k7 happens not often. basically one can solder 99° of what even a workshop for electronics needs with the same tip.
Sep 05 19:32:32 <roh> eh 99%
Sep 05 19:32:47 <md2k7> probably...
Sep 05 19:32:59 <md2k7> but a weller (i ordered one recently with 80 W) is much cooler
Sep 05 19:33:18 <md2k7> u usually use the same temp, but when you have large ground connecions etc, you push it up to 450 °C
Sep 05 19:33:21 <roh> i replace mine less than once a year with an new one and exchange it basically never.. did that for some 'removing shielding cases' sometimes, but thats not a typical problem
Sep 05 19:33:57 <roh> md2k7 thats where 50W come in handy, even with small sized tips. got the power to push more heat in.
Sep 05 19:34:02 <PaulFertser> roh: weller w61 seems to be not easily sourcable here :(
Sep 05 19:34:10 <roh> the solder melts at much lower temperatures already
Sep 05 19:34:48 <roh> PaulFertser oh.. no local mass-distributor like reichelt or conrad in your country?
Sep 05 19:47:13 <khiraly1> hmm
Sep 05 19:53:56 <PaulFertser> roh: looks like that :(
Sep 05 19:56:08 <PaulFertser> roh: W-61 costs $220 from one of the conrad partners here.
Sep 05 19:58:29 <PaulFertser> fuck the "partners"
Sep 05 19:59:26 <khiraly1> conrad is the most expensive electronic shop
Sep 05 19:59:30 <khiraly1> at least here
Sep 05 20:00:42 <dcordes> mickey|sports, ping
Sep 05 20:09:28 <PaulFertser> Hm, looks like i still can desolder 0402 caps undamaged even with that 25W POS without any temperature control whatsoever (tried it on broken videocard with plenty of tiny components).
Sep 05 20:11:24 <PaulFertser> Hm, looks like i still can desolder 0402 caps undamaged even with that 25W POS without any temperature control whatsoever (tried it on broken videocard with plenty of tiny components).
Sep 05 20:11:32 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: ;)
Sep 05 20:11:42 <khiraly1> i have read on the first try too
Sep 05 20:12:27 <khiraly1> hmm. I have no sound in paroli, when picking up the phonecall
Sep 05 20:12:27 <CIA-53> freesmartphone.org: seba.dos1 dos/opimd-tracking * rc3bef78a590e framework/framework/subsystems/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git@git.freesmartphone.org:framework into dos/opimd-tracking
Sep 05 20:12:29 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i wasn't sure that (posting) worked because my irssi showed lag ~40 seconds and i knew my fucking isp disconnects me at about the time.
Sep 05 20:12:34 <khiraly1> dunno what is the route cause
Sep 05 20:13:12 <khiraly1> some freesmartphone interface changed?
Sep 05 20:13:22 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: wanna photo of that POS iron? Or do you want to dismount something more fancy than 0402 caps?
Sep 05 20:13:41 <khiraly1> yeah, show me
Sep 05 20:16:16 <dos1> could someone check paroli package in shr-unstable?
Sep 05 20:16:20 <dos1> it should be fixed
Sep 05 20:17:43 <khiraly1> DBusException: org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.PlayerError: Could not open audio device for playback. Device is being used by another application
Sep 05 20:18:03 <khiraly1> dos1: no way. There were a massive merge in paroli code, and seems broken in all way;-\
Sep 05 20:18:20 <dos1> ah :D
Sep 05 20:18:32 <dos1> well, i fixed recipe to provide tichy stuff
Sep 05 20:18:47 <khiraly1> DBusException: org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.PlayerError: Could not open audio device for playback. Device is being used by another application
Sep 05 20:29:31 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/pos_iron.jpg
Sep 05 20:30:12 <khiraly1> dos1: http://friendpaste.com/18IyWYr69aMevBTowKVkik
Sep 05 20:30:24 <khiraly1> line 26-60
Sep 05 20:32:28 <dos1> khiraly1: hmm?
Sep 05 20:32:33 <dos1> i don't know anything about ophoned
Sep 05 20:34:56 <khiraly1> is there an fsoophoned too?
Sep 05 20:37:07 <dos1> no
Sep 05 20:37:14 <dos1> but i don't think there is any app using ophoned yet
Sep 05 20:37:18 <dos1> i have it disabled :P
Sep 05 20:39:20 <khiraly1> is there a replacement?
Sep 05 20:39:43 <dos1> no
Sep 05 20:39:50 <dos1> but if it's making troubles, just disable it
Sep 05 20:40:03 <dos1> (well, i don't think those tracebacks are real problems ;P)
Sep 05 20:41:06 <dos1> ok, leaving now
Sep 05 20:41:09 <dos1> good night!
Sep 05 20:43:37 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: yes, exactly. ophoned is supposed to be a high-level interface, like pyneo or ophono. Nobody uses it yet and yes it gives me occasional tracebacks too and nobody cares.
Sep 05 20:44:04 <khiraly1> ahh, ok
Sep 05 20:44:25 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: btw, this solder iron looks really cheap. It wears out the tip in no time
Sep 05 20:48:02 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: the tip is just 4mm copper
Sep 05 20:48:15 <khiraly1> it wears out fast
Sep 05 20:50:26 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: not really, if the tip becomes bad i just take flat file and "fix" it. And i do not solder much anyway. For the whole my life i've never worn out any tip like that.
Sep 05 20:51:20 <khiraly1> with a real tip what weller has for example, it practically does not wear
Sep 05 20:52:00 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i solder too little to care :-/
Sep 05 20:53:13 <khiraly1> its much better experience
Sep 05 20:53:20 <khiraly1> it flows the solder much better
Sep 05 20:54:14 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i have access to different decent soldering stations at work
Sep 05 20:55:01 <dcordes> PaulFertser, I also tried to "fix" a tip with a file one day and ended up buying a new one because it didn't heat up any longer
Sep 05 20:56:05 <PaulFertser> dcordes: ceramic tips can't be fixed that way obviously
Sep 05 20:56:26 <PaulFertser> dcordes: but we were talking about 4mm copper wire used as a tip.
Sep 05 21:08:30 <dcordes> PaulFertser, ok I use one with ceramic heat thing which has metal tip
Sep 05 21:10:35 <PaulFertser> dcordes: not all metals are created equal ;)
Sep 05 21:17:14 <dcordes> PaulFertser, I know that it works well and that it's bad to destroy the surface that's enough.
Sep 05 21:18:00 <PaulFertser> dcordes: i'm back to my file tool to sharpen my pos iron even more. :-/
Sep 05 21:18:28 <dcordes> :)
Sep 05 21:20:06 <PaulFertser> Not funny, somehow i got upset today
Sep 05 21:20:57 <mickeyl> dcordes: pong
Sep 05 21:24:27 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: hey, do you like to be a king? Is that `@' your crown? ;)
Sep 05 21:25:34 <mickeyl> heh
Sep 05 21:25:42 <PaulFertser> s/like/prefer/
Sep 05 21:25:42 <bzzbot> PaulFertser meant: mickeyl: hey, do you prefer to be a king? Is that `@' your crown? ;)
Sep 05 21:25:53 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: you look like a secret agent;) https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/paul_fertser_docu.jpeg
Sep 05 21:25:59 <mickeyl> dunno, that's an artefact from registering the channel
Sep 05 21:26:04 <khiraly1> or a serial killer. Pick one
Sep 05 21:26:59 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: ~18 years old photo, now i look weirder.
Sep 05 21:27:48 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: you can drop the op and regain it whenever you need, at least that's the usual practice ;)
Sep 05 21:28:13 <khiraly1> mickeyl: could you help me a little? In paroli when I call somebody, it does not have any sound (not in speaker not on the other side)
Sep 05 21:28:15 <mickeyl> i know, but i didn't even see it
Sep 05 21:28:21 <mickeyl> i don't bother much about these things
Sep 05 21:28:24 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: http://www.flickr.com/photos/deubeuliou/3555567388/in/set-72157618763376128/
Sep 05 21:28:25 <mickeyl> but if it offends you...
Sep 05 21:28:34 <khiraly1> when incoming call happens, the ringing is fine, but no sound after picking up the call
Sep 05 21:28:36 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: nah, i'm not easily offended :P
Sep 05 21:28:38 <mickeyl> feeling better?
Sep 05 21:28:44 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: a bit
Sep 05 21:28:48 <khiraly1> there is no error message on either side. (paroli vs. frameworkd)
Sep 05 21:28:54 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: it was a great symbolic act -- mickey did something for me ;)
Sep 05 21:28:58 <mickeyl> heh
Sep 05 21:29:13 <mickeyl> khiraly1: sounds like your rules or your scenario(s) are wrong
Sep 05 21:29:13 <khiraly1> could you please explain how is supposed to be a calling? (what dbus command should I issue, etc)
Sep 05 21:29:34 <khiraly1> mickeyl: shr telephony apps works great
Sep 05 21:29:35 <mickeyl> check docs.freesmartphone.org, you can use the org.freesmartphone.GSM.* interfaces
Sep 05 21:29:51 <mickeyl> might also run cli-framework, which gives an interactive python prompt to dbus debugging
Sep 05 21:29:59 <mickeyl> then you can call all kinds of methods
Sep 05 21:30:07 <mickeyl> also run mdbus -s -l
Sep 05 21:30:10 <mickeyl> to see signals arriving
Sep 05 21:30:14 <mickeyl> so you can find out what's (not) happening
Sep 05 21:30:22 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: yeah you need a razor.
Sep 05 21:30:30 <PaulFertser> For my fans another great photo: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/paulncat.jpg
Sep 05 21:30:44 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i'm afraid i'll cut myself if i get a razor
Sep 05 21:30:57 <PaulFertser> veins
Sep 05 21:33:11 <khiraly1> mickeyl: http://pastebin.com/m1f9b1c73
Sep 05 21:34:58 <mickeyl> yeah, no signals from scenario
Sep 05 21:35:05 <mickeyl> is oeventsd active?
Sep 05 21:35:10 <mickeyl> are the rules loaded?
Sep 05 21:35:15 <mickeyl> are the scenarios present?
Sep 05 21:36:37 <khiraly1> the scenarios are present
Sep 05 21:37:00 <khiraly1> root@om-gta02 ~ $ ls -l /usr/share/shr/scenarii/
Sep 05 21:37:13 <khiraly1> http://pastebin.com/m4384146b
Sep 05 21:37:20 <mickeyl> hmm, that's a non standard path
Sep 05 21:37:37 <khiraly1> on shr this is the "standard" path
Sep 05 21:37:42 <khiraly1> pretty weird I know
Sep 05 21:37:48 <khiraly1> Ainulindale: changed it
Sep 05 21:38:00 <mickeyl> then check whether oeventsd is active
Sep 05 21:38:06 <khiraly1> how to do?
Sep 05 21:38:08 <khiraly1> ps -e?
Sep 05 21:38:37 <mickeyl> no, it's all running in one process
Sep 05 21:38:39 <mickeyl> mdbus -s
Sep 05 21:39:40 <khiraly1> yepp, its listed
Sep 05 21:39:59 <khiraly1> http://pastebin.com/m44f3c121
Sep 05 21:40:01 <mickeyl> any traces of oeventsd in the log?
Sep 05 21:41:13 <khiraly1> http://pastebin.com/m6eeab8ae
Sep 05 21:41:19 <khiraly1> ^^ var/log/frameworkd
Sep 05 21:42:27 <mickeyl> i'd disable ophoned
Sep 05 21:42:29 <mickeyl> it errors out
Sep 05 21:42:34 <khiraly1> which line?
Sep 05 21:42:47 <mickeyl> [ophoned]
Sep 05 21:42:49 <mickeyl> disable=1
Sep 05 21:43:03 <mickeyl> perhaps this is enough to make it work
Sep 05 21:43:08 <mickeyl> i'll be back tomorrow
Sep 05 21:43:13 <mickeyl> need to sleep now
Sep 05 21:43:43 <khiraly1> hmm, ophoned is disabled of cours
Sep 05 21:43:44 <khiraly1> e
Sep 05 21:44:05 <khiraly1> (22.32.29) dos1: khiraly1: hmm?
Sep 05 21:44:05 <khiraly1> (22.32.33) dos1: i don't know anything about ophoned
Sep 05 21:44:05 <khiraly1> (22.34.56) khiraly1: is there an fsoophoned too?
Sep 05 21:44:05 <khiraly1> (22.37.07) dos1: no
Sep 05 21:44:05 <khiraly1> (22.37.14) dos1: but i don't think there is any app using ophoned yet
Sep 05 21:44:06 <khiraly1> (22.37.18) dos1: i have it disabled :P
Sep 05 21:44:36 <zuka> PaulFertser: is bootsrap method better than prebuilt stage
Sep 05 21:45:53 <mickey|zzZZzz> org.freesmartphone.ophoned
Sep 05 21:45:56 <mickey|zzZZzz> in your pastebin
Sep 05 21:46:00 <mickey|zzZZzz> so it's definitely not disabled
Sep 05 21:46:43 <khiraly1> mickey|zzZZzz: which line? search does not find it
Sep 05 21:53:42 <khiraly1> hmm
Sep 05 21:59:30 <khiraly1> where is the sourcecode of shr-dialer app?
Sep 05 22:20:27 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: have you found already?
Sep 05 22:20:36 <khiraly1> yepp
Sep 05 22:21:16 <khiraly1> what I dont now, is how to find which daemon is corresponding to a specific interface in freesmartphone?
Sep 05 22:21:28 <khiraly1> self.ousage = self.bus.get_object('org.freesmartphone.ousaged',
Sep 05 22:21:28 <khiraly1>                                           '/org/freesmartphone/Usage',
Sep 05 22:21:28 <khiraly1>                                           follow_name_owner_changes=True)
Sep 05 22:21:31 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i can't say for shr but with zhone it worked like this: a special rule in oevents config just switched scenario when the call was active.
Sep 05 22:22:14 <khiraly1> so how to determine /org/freesmartphone/Usage is providing by what daemon?
Sep 05 22:22:18 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: there's a convention in fso that brings bus names and interface names together. /org/freesmartphone/Usage --> org.freesmartphone.ousaged
Sep 05 22:22:42 <khiraly1> yes, but how do you know from the interface name the bus name?
Sep 05 22:23:08 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: Usage -> ousaged
Sep 05 22:23:11 <khiraly1> org.freesmartphone.Phone.Call
Sep 05 22:23:15 <khiraly1> ^^ ok, this one?
Sep 05 22:23:18 <PaulFertser> Phone -> ophoned
Sep 05 22:23:30 <khiraly1> and fsousaged?
Sep 05 22:23:47 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: it's part of cornucopia, provides org.freesmartphone.ousaged bus
Sep 05 22:24:32 <khiraly1> I need a summary table all this interface, busname and program name
Sep 05 22:24:45 <khiraly1> because for example ophoned can be launched from command line
Sep 05 22:24:49 <khiraly1> so it is a separate app
Sep 05 22:25:59 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: can it really?
Sep 05 22:26:08 <khiraly1> dunno
Sep 05 22:26:20 <khiraly1> Im really lost
Sep 05 22:26:21 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: cornucopia apps are started automatically by means of bus activation afaik.
Sep 05 22:26:37 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: you shouldn't care about all that stuff
Sep 05 22:27:16 <khiraly1>  /usr/bin/ophonekitd looks like a binary
Sep 05 22:27:26 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: that's completely unrelated
Sep 05 22:27:31 <khiraly1> doh
Sep 05 22:27:34 <khiraly1> what is it then?
Sep 05 22:27:44 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: ophonekitd is SHR-specific central daemon handling telephony for SHR apps.
Sep 05 22:28:02 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: notice the "kit" in the name, no relation to ophoned whatsoever.
Sep 05 22:28:12 <khiraly1> the thing is
Sep 05 22:28:45 <khiraly1> If I enable ophonekitd, I can call paroli and I have sound while talking. (but brings up the annoying shr white screen with a tiny phone number in the middle)
Sep 05 22:29:00 <khiraly1> if I dont run ophonekitd, I dont get any sound
Sep 05 22:29:06 <khiraly1> Just ringing when I receive a call
Sep 05 22:29:16 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: looks like a decent hint
Sep 05 22:29:27 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i just don't know what does it mean ;)
Sep 05 22:30:10 <PaulFertser> yet
Sep 05 22:35:00 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: where's your rule to set "gsmhandset" scenario? I don't see it in the log!
Sep 05 22:35:19 <khiraly1> frameworkd.conf: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/138246/
Sep 05 22:35:34 <khiraly1> frameworkd.conf back in om2009 days: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/138247/
Sep 05 22:35:46 <khiraly1> a diff between the two: http://paste.pocoo.org/compare/138247/138246/
Sep 05 22:35:54 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: back in om2009 paroli activate scenario by itself most probably?
Sep 05 22:36:41 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: rules are not in frameworkd.conf, they're in rules.yaml
Sep 05 22:37:22 <khiraly1> I dont find anywhere gsmhandset in paroli source except rules.yaml
Sep 05 22:37:29 <khiraly1> ok, a sec, I'll post rules.yaml too
Sep 05 22:38:38 <agg1n> hey, is dos1 already in bed or what??
Sep 05 22:38:47 <PaulFertser> agg1n: in bed
Sep 05 22:38:51 <agg1n> damn
Sep 05 22:40:16 <khiraly1> shr's rules.yaml: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/138248/
Sep 05 22:40:29 <khiraly1> paroli old rules.yaml (om2009): http://paste.pocoo.org/show/138249/
Sep 05 22:40:36 <khiraly1> diff between the two: http://paste.pocoo.org/compare/138249/138248/
Sep 05 22:42:56 <khiraly1> hmm, it seems it was set by rules.yaml
Sep 05 22:42:58 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: uncomment lines 44-50 in shr rules.yaml
Sep 05 22:43:05 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: and you'll hear the sound obviously
Sep 05 22:43:29 <khiraly1> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/138249/ <-- line 57
Sep 05 22:43:58 <khiraly1> hmm
Sep 05 22:44:08 <khiraly1> i'll try
Sep 05 22:44:21 <khiraly1> and why the hell shr-dialer does not need this?
Sep 05 22:44:33 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: that's something i'm trying to find out at the very moment
Sep 05 22:44:35 <khiraly1> should I set the state file via application logic?
Sep 05 22:45:30 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: that's controversial topic i'm afraid
Sep 05 22:45:55 <khiraly1> controversial?
Sep 05 22:46:18 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: can you tell me which package provides rules.yaml in shr?
Sep 05 22:46:47 <khiraly1> root@om-gta02 /usr/share/nfs-paroli/paroli-scripts $ opkg search /etc/freesmartphone/oevents/rules.yaml
Sep 05 22:46:47 <khiraly1> root@om-gta02 /usr/share/nfs-paroli/paroli-scripts $
Sep 05 22:46:53 <khiraly1> not really. How to find out?
Sep 05 22:46:59 <khiraly1> oh, I know!
Sep 05 22:47:05 <khiraly1> dos1 told me yesterday
Sep 05 22:47:07 <khiraly1> a sec
Sep 05 22:47:24 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: no need
Sep 05 22:47:30 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: found already
Sep 05 22:47:38 <khiraly1> shr-...config..
Sep 05 22:47:40 <khiraly1> something
Sep 05 22:48:12 <khiraly1> frameworkd-config-shr
Sep 05 22:48:18 <khiraly1> ^^?
Sep 05 22:52:26 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i don't care, i've already found the proper sources
Sep 05 22:52:50 <khiraly1> link?
Sep 05 22:53:53 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=shr.git;a=commitdiff;h=144f74896742feb05ea1ffabf395332bdd8af69d;hp=9667b5bce4175008def57434a6a68bae894de0f5
Sep 05 22:55:39 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: btw, it'd be nice to have c_c's launcher and intone to shr feeds with autorev, is it already done?
Sep 05 22:55:59 <khiraly1> no idea at all
Sep 05 22:56:16 <m0nt0> it's normal that tangogps isn't loading the map and it gives me a lot of "(tangogps:2612): GdkPixbuf-CRITICAL **:" ??
Sep 05 22:56:18 <khiraly1> intone is really great
Sep 05 22:56:18 <khiraly1> I use it as a learning platform
Sep 05 22:56:18 <khiraly1> aka dictionary with sound
Sep 05 22:57:31 <khiraly1> +                       odeviced_audio_push_scenario("gsmspeakerout", NULL, NULL);
Sep 05 22:58:34 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: I may know a reason why shr-dialer sets itself the state file
Sep 05 22:58:55 <khiraly1> (and not set via the rules.yaml file)
Sep 05 22:59:24 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: yes, because currently fso doesn't provied any decent way to manage all that and the dialer wants to be able to switch e.g. handset/speakerphone.
Sep 05 22:59:35 <khiraly1> yepp, exactly
Sep 05 22:59:52 <khiraly1> it has a 'speaker' button
Sep 05 23:00:45 <khiraly1> thank you very much your help by the way
Sep 05 23:00:54 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: what do you use as telephony app?
Sep 05 23:01:01 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: zhone :(((
Sep 05 23:01:02 <khiraly1> zhone?
Sep 05 23:01:08 <khiraly1> never tried out
Sep 05 23:01:15 <khiraly1> do you have some screenshot?
Sep 05 23:10:25 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: it's test app from FSO, extremely uncomfortable to use
Sep 05 23:10:43 <khiraly1> PaulFertser: did you ever tried others, like paroli?
Sep 05 23:10:44 <khiraly1> ;)
Sep 05 23:11:26 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i tried paroli once, wasn't able to start because it required elementary bindings not packaged in debian iirc
Sep 05 23:11:52 <khiraly1> aham. Its not really good time to try it now
Sep 05 23:11:56 <khiraly1> in a week or so
Sep 05 23:12:21 <khiraly1> And we have a developer who want to run paroli on debian. So will be definitely possible to try it out
Sep 05 23:12:54 <PaulFertser> khiraly1: i know, emdete is using debian for quite some time for all his work.
Sep 05 23:13:06 <khiraly1> and vmx too
Sep 05 23:24:42 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I don't like paroli that much
Sep 05 23:27:15 <khiraly1> DocScrutinizer: ;)
Sep 05 23:27:52 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i bet it's still better than zhone
Sep 05 23:27:57 <khiraly1> DocScrutinizer: you dont like the gui, the look, the slowiness, the 'it cant upload my contacts to gmail's calendar', or what exactly?
Sep 05 23:28:19 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly ;-P
Sep 05 23:29:46 <khiraly1> btw, I can define what I dont like at all in shr telephony apps. They are stock elementary windows, and are very limited guis (for example the dialer has three buttons at the bottom because there is a *table*), and the very inconsistent gui. (the buttons are always at other place)
Sep 05 23:29:55 <DocScrutinizer> basically I don't like the monolitic design/concept
Sep 05 23:29:57 <khiraly1> so for me its all about the gui
Sep 05 23:32:40 <khiraly1> DocScrutinizer: I dont really care abot lowlevel stuff. But it gets changed in these days
Sep 05 23:33:41 <khiraly1> and I personally do like monolitic design for *core* applications. (phonebook, message, phonelog, etc)
Sep 05 23:35:56 <khiraly1> if you understand under monolitic, that paroli dont really communicate with other apps, like opimd for storage, then I agree. And definitely need to be fixed
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 06 02:59:57 2009