**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 16 02:59:59 2012
Apr 16 05:45:40 <mrmoku> moin
Apr 16 07:23:24 <rudola> now, that could make me buy a android phone: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android/comments
Apr 16 08:27:36 <morphis> heyho
Apr 16 09:01:03 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r6a41cf54f449 10/scripts/gitlog-to-changelog: scripts: add gitlog-to-changelog script to easily generate changelogs from git history
Apr 16 09:01:03 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r8a7ca61612a6 10/msmcommd/configure.ac: msmcommd: bump required version of fso-glib to 2012.02.14
Apr 16 09:01:04 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rd9f00319b381 10/scripts/ (list_components.sh release_distcheck.sh update_changelog.sh): scripts: add several scripts for release management
Apr 16 09:01:05 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rec3ba8e5fdca 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Update ChangeLog files of all components
Apr 16 10:43:57 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r0a4ed72764d8 10/fsogsmd/src/plugins/lowlevel_gta04/plugin.vala: fsogsmd: lowlevel_gta04: force a two seconds sleep for the whole daemon until dev nodes are available
Apr 16 11:25:15 <mrmoku> yo morphis 
Apr 16 11:25:20 <morphis> mrmoku: heyho
Apr 16 11:25:23 <mrmoku> do latest images boot for you (on gta04) ?
Apr 16 11:25:33 <morphis> mrmoku: I have currently 046 installed
Apr 16 11:25:37 <morphis> it boots but e17 segfaults
Apr 16 11:25:55 <mrmoku> hmm... 046 does not boot for me
Apr 16 11:26:13 <morphis> and a earlier one?
Apr 16 11:26:30 <mrmoku> latest synced one does boot
Apr 16 11:26:35 <mrmoku> but has X problems
Apr 16 11:27:12 <mrmoku> ahh... hmm
Apr 16 11:27:12 <mrmoku> no
Apr 16 11:27:29 <mrmoku> does not boot anymore on second boot :/
Apr 16 11:27:47 <morphis> hm
Apr 16 11:27:55 <morphis> is your boot.scr correct?
Apr 16 11:28:11 <mrmoku> I took the one from our installation page
Apr 16 11:28:13 <morphis> I had problems causes I used the wrong boot configuration
Apr 16 11:28:14 <morphis> ok
Apr 16 11:28:17 <morphis> I have that one too
Apr 16 11:28:49 <mrmoku> ok, will veryify my boot.scr
Apr 16 11:28:54 <mrmoku> maybe I did something wrong there
Apr 16 11:29:19 <morphis> and MLO was copied as first file to the boot partition?
Apr 16 11:30:43 <mrmoku> yeah, well it starts to boot 
Apr 16 11:30:45 <mrmoku> [  189.114959] libertas_sdio: failed to find firmware (-2)
Apr 16 11:30:45 <mrmoku> [  189.121093] libertas_sdio: probe of mmc1:0001:1 failed with error -2
Apr 16 11:30:57 <mrmoku> maybe I have firmware problems... did the firmware change lately?
Apr 16 11:31:12 <mrmoku> or is more firmware needed these days?
Apr 16 11:31:26 <morphis> I don't know
Apr 16 11:31:36 <morphis> I never installed the firmware files on my gta04 since I got it
Apr 16 11:31:46 <mrmoku> ok, yeah. It should boot anyway
Apr 16 11:33:02 <morphis> yes
Apr 16 11:33:18 <morphis> but currently I am busy with getting cornucopia 0.10 out
Apr 16 11:35:13 <mrmoku> ok :)
Apr 16 11:37:28 * mrmoku --> kid's taxi
Apr 16 11:37:29 <mrmoku> bbl
Apr 16 11:40:22 <morphis> ok, removing shr-wizard fixes e17 segfault
Apr 16 16:34:13 <PaulFertser> Hi there :) is there any current recommended e17 illume theme? I'd like plain 2d battery indicator and digital clocks, i used to have dos1 blue theme before but now i had a nasty dist-upgrade.
Apr 16 16:41:55 <PaulFertser> dos1: Hi there :) is there any current recommended e17 illume theme?
Apr 16 16:48:28 <pespin> PaulFertser, you could try detourious, it's somehow similar to iOS one if you like that
Apr 16 16:51:50 <PaulFertser> pespin: i can't really remember how iOS looks but i doubt i like it. I'm of a hardcore "gimme green-on-black POSIX sh now!" type, so i'd prefer something really minimalistic and not "fancy".
Apr 16 16:53:40 <pespin> PaulFertser, http://art.bodhilinux.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&w=474&h=423&media=bodhi_e17_bodhi_detorious.png
Apr 16 16:54:02 <Alex[sp3dev]> PaulFertser: http://shr-project.org/trac/attachment/wiki/Illume%20Theme/nEo9.png
Apr 16 16:54:21 <PaulFertser> pespin: that's not Illume, is it?
Apr 16 16:54:44 <PaulFertser> Alex[sp3dev]: \m/
Apr 16 16:54:48 <pespin> PaulFertser, it's standard e17 with detorious theme
Apr 16 16:55:02 <pespin> I guess it could work for illume too
Apr 16 16:55:02 <PaulFertser> pespin: yes, but standard e17 is not that useable on FR afaik.
Apr 16 16:55:48 <pespin> PaulFertser, I don't know if illume is using a separate edj file from standard e17
Apr 16 16:56:21 <PaulFertser> But that theme is so old that it's probably not working on current e17 anymore.
Apr 16 16:56:22 <pespin> there's a theme for elementary too
Apr 16 16:56:36 <pespin> PaulFertser, detorious old?
Apr 16 16:56:40 <PaulFertser> I think i do not use any elementary app anymore.
Apr 16 16:56:48 <PaulFertser> pespin: no, that green-on-black shown by Alex[sp3dev] 
Apr 16 16:56:53 <pespin> ah yes
Apr 16 16:57:40 <slyon> hey
Apr 16 16:57:55 <PaulFertser> Yo
Apr 16 16:59:27 <pespin> PaulFertser, if you like black themes you can use efenniht
Apr 16 17:00:00 <pespin> I used for a while in my neo too, but was too blackish and was difficult to see stuff under the sun u.u
Apr 16 17:00:31 <PaulFertser> All i care is about an understanable battery and digital clock.
Apr 16 17:01:22 <PaulFertser> In fact i'm almost exclusively using Emacs and rxvt on it, so everything else is a non-issue (except that i'd like a terminal keyboard without that predictive bar that's of no use when prediction is not used).
Apr 16 17:02:19 <mrmoku> hey slyon 
Apr 16 17:02:24 <dos1> PaulFertser: SHR's default theme has digital clock and (for me) understantable battery
Apr 16 17:02:33 <PaulFertser> That's why i'm asking here about what is useable for sure right now on FR with current e17 version.
Apr 16 17:02:40 <PaulFertser> dos1: nice, good for the info.
Apr 16 17:03:07 <PaulFertser> s/good/thanks/ :)
Apr 16 17:03:52 <dos1> PaulFertser: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/6fe5313e0856c7ddff35f5f2063a2c54.png
Apr 16 17:04:21 <PaulFertser> dos1: excellent!
Apr 16 17:05:39 <PaulFertser> BTW, are you guys aware of the "mosh" remote control project? It uses ssh to authorise and exchange an AES key and then a custom UDP protocol that allows for local echo (good bye huge annoying latency for most of the keystrokes) and roaming (i.e. even after you change ip of the client your session is still working).
Apr 16 17:06:07 <lindi-> PaulFertser: yeah but I haven't seen any kind of security audit
Apr 16 17:06:16 <PaulFertser> That was my motivation to apt-get my Debian a bit. Now i can not use it at all due to the customness of my installation.
Apr 16 17:06:34 <PaulFertser> lindi-: seeing it getting so much traction it looks like it'll appear rather soon.
Apr 16 17:07:22 <PaulFertser> And it's a real boost to the usability of the GPRS links.
Apr 16 17:10:39 <PaulFertser> lindi-: btw, i just did full dist-upgrade to the current armel unstable/experimental and i'm facing a rather weird issue: Emac's minibuffer has "invisible font" (but visible cursor) in the bottom line. But probably it's something e17 specific, i'm yet to find that out. But still utterly weird.
Apr 16 17:23:24 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: interesting (mosh)
Apr 16 17:32:01 <PaulFertser> dos1: what about a "better" terminal keyboard?
Apr 16 17:32:14 <PaulFertser> Without the bar that's not needed in terminal?
Apr 16 17:37:20 <PaulFertser> Whom to report a problem with SHR git server? ping6 git.shr-project.org
Apr 16 17:37:20 <PaulFertser> unknown host
Apr 16 17:38:40 <morphis_> PaulFertser: so they should add ipv6 support :)
Apr 16 17:39:11 <PaulFertser> morphis_: that's what i politely implied :)
Apr 16 17:39:25 <PaulFertser> morphis_: btw, i hope you do not mind that comment on the ticket.
Apr 16 17:39:28 <morphis_> PaulFertser: maybe ask in #bearstech
Apr 16 17:39:39 <PaulFertser> It was opened 14 months ago and is most probably still not fixed...
Apr 16 17:39:55 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: hmm... unknown host is a dns problem?
Apr 16 17:39:58 <morphis_> PaulFertser: it's not fixed, yes
Apr 16 17:40:13 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: well, AAAA record is missing that's for sure :)
Apr 16 17:40:23 <morphis_> PaulFertser: thats why I moved it to the 0.11 release where I will take care about those bugs finally
Apr 16 17:40:27 <mrmoku> well... then bearstech is not responsible
Apr 16 17:40:36 <PaulFertser> morphis_: oh, so there's hope finally. Great!
Apr 16 17:40:52 <morphis_> at least all bugs mentioned for cornucopia in trac will be fixed in 0.11
Apr 16 17:41:02 <morphis_> PaulFertser: yes
Apr 16 17:41:08 <morphis_> PaulFertser: I need to get 0.10 out first
Apr 16 17:41:16 <PaulFertser> Oh, so my tickets will finally get some love. morphis_, huge thanks!
Apr 16 17:41:18 <morphis_> but 0.10 is just a snapshot of the current state
Apr 16 17:41:33 <morphis_> PaulFertser: I hope I can meet your expectations :)
Apr 16 17:43:28 <PaulFertser> morphis_: btw, is dbus interecations themselves now rock-solid? I've been told that move to gdbus improved that but are the problems really solved now?
Apr 16 17:43:55 <morphis_> PaulFertser: I don't know about any real problems with dbus itself in FSO
Apr 16 17:44:11 <morphis_> PaulFertser: you have something special in mind?
Apr 16 17:45:49 <PaulFertser> morphis_: there were issues with losing signals and that's unfortunately was very bad for the way FSO is supposed to work afair.
Apr 16 17:46:18 <morphis_> PaulFertser: I know mickeyl was thinking about implement agents in favour of using dbus signals
Apr 16 17:46:44 <morphis_> but I don't know currently about any situation where I dealt with lost signals
Apr 16 17:46:50 <morphis_> (since switch to gdbus)
Apr 16 17:47:23 <PaulFertser> morphis_: well, thinking and architecturing is one thing and delivering something rock-solid is another. Currently dbus signals a bit udp-like, but in case of FSO it's really important to get them. (the best thing about udp jokes is that i do not care if you get them or not ;) )
Apr 16 17:48:03 <PaulFertser> Good to hear, so i should really upgrade to FSO git HEAD sometime soon.
Apr 16 17:48:11 <morphis_> PaulFertser: yes
Apr 16 17:48:24 <morphis_> PaulFertser: my plan is to get FSO2 solid and usable
Apr 16 17:48:34 <lindi-> isn't the repo called cornucopia or something?
Apr 16 17:48:41 <morphis_> lindi-: it is
Apr 16 17:49:04 <morphis_> PaulFertser: I will not concentrate on porting anymore
Apr 16 17:49:19 <PaulFertser> morphis_: what will be you main target though?
Apr 16 17:49:36 <PaulFertser> btw, your RE effort is amazing.
Apr 16 17:50:21 <morphis_> PaulFertser: RE: yes, it is
Apr 16 17:50:36 <morphis_> PaulFertser: my main effort will be for the first to get regular release out and fix bugs
Apr 16 17:50:44 <morphis_> which are in our trac for a long time now
Apr 16 17:51:10 <morphis_> there was nobody taking care about the software quality, I will step in here
Apr 16 17:51:50 <morphis_> development was just minted from fast development to support new devices in time
Apr 16 17:52:40 <morphis_> people can do this, but their will be no more hacks in the stack just to support one platform like we did in the past
Apr 16 17:55:08 <morphis_> PaulFertser: and finally there will be some new features like connman support
Apr 16 17:55:21 <morphis_> and maybe some agent style API
Apr 16 17:56:57 <PaulFertser> morphis_: connman... You know, honestly...
Apr 16 17:57:08 <PaulFertser> morphis_: what i'm personally missing is a high-level telephony API.
Apr 16 17:57:11 <PaulFertser> And SIP integration.
Apr 16 17:57:17 <PaulFertser> connman is meh
Apr 16 17:57:29 <PaulFertser> I see no usecase for it.
Apr 16 17:57:42 <mrmoku> :)
Apr 16 17:58:34 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: I'm still interested in SIP integration too... quite crucial thing to have for me
Apr 16 17:58:44 <PaulFertser> morphis_: also, that opimd is suboptimal, there's no good way to sync it with anything and it's still in python and probably somewhat slow because of that etc.
Apr 16 17:58:46 <lindi-> SIP over internet sounds quite wrong to me
Apr 16 17:58:48 <mrmoku> but I'm soooo undecided about what is the good way to do it
Apr 16 17:59:07 <mrmoku> lindi-: make it SIPS then or SIP tunneled in some VPN
Apr 16 17:59:49 <PaulFertser> morphis_: so i honestly can't see the reason to work on fsotdld, fsonetworkd and friends while basic things such as: 1. stability, esp. handling GSM modems 2. proper high-level call api 3. bluetooth handsets are missing.
Apr 16 17:59:58 <lindi-> mrmoku: yeah if you run your own pbx
Apr 16 18:00:43 <mrmoku> lindi-: sure
Apr 16 18:01:21 <morphis_> PaulFertser: you're right, highlevel telephony API is something we need, too
Apr 16 18:01:24 <mrmoku> lindi-: are there SIP providers out there offering something secure?
Apr 16 18:01:40 <mrmoku> at least the one I'm using for my private phone does not :/
Apr 16 18:01:56 <PaulFertser> dos1: btw, do you know that if you swap Ctrl and capslock in the terminal e17 keyboard the usability considerably improves?
Apr 16 18:01:59 <morphis_> PaulFertser: but about opimd there are better solutions than doing it on our own, there is aconadi, evoluation-data-server, folks, ... which are doing PIM already quite nice
Apr 16 18:02:35 <mrmoku> reuse ... reuse ... REUSE :-D
Apr 16 18:02:38 <PaulFertser> morphis_: probably so, but something lightweight and sane enough need to be choosen and integrated, and that's helluva work.
Apr 16 18:02:55 <lindi-> mrmoku: I don't know. SIP as a protocol just does not feel like something that I'd like to use outside the local office
Apr 16 18:03:01 <Alex[sp3dev]> take kde. stick in a dialer ui. profit?
Apr 16 18:03:03 <PaulFertser> Also, i've read e.g. kmail started to be unbearably slow after switching to an akonadi storage backend.
Apr 16 18:03:10 <morphis_> mrmoku: yes reuse, don't do anything on our own
Apr 16 18:03:32 <PaulFertser> Alex[sp3dev]: FR is too constrained for "kde bloat" i'm afraid.
Apr 16 18:03:38 <morphis_> PaulFertser: that are details, I am not happy with akonadi in real life too
Apr 16 18:03:56 <lindi-> mrmoku: also FR does not have enough cpu power to do echo cancellation in software afaik
Apr 16 18:03:59 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: indeed... my akonadi/kmail2 experiences ported me back to mutt... fortunately ;)
Apr 16 18:04:03 <PaulFertser> morphis_: and opimd basically works fine for me everyday
Apr 16 18:04:05 <morphis_> but people, don't think so much about new features before we don't have the base to work on something like this
Apr 16 18:04:10 <morphis_> PaulFertser: ok
Apr 16 18:04:14 <mrmoku> lindi-: yeah, but gta04 has :)
Apr 16 18:04:19 <PaulFertser> Fine and fast enough.
Apr 16 18:04:21 <morphis_> PaulFertser: when time is coming we have to collect ideas and decide then
Apr 16 18:04:43 * pabs3 is reminded of Telepathy
Apr 16 18:04:43 <PaulFertser> lindi-: echo cancellation might be unneeded if you do auto-halfduplex which might be useable.
Apr 16 18:04:56 <morphis_> let's do me the first two release 0.10 and 0.11 and then let's see whats next
Apr 16 18:05:09 <lindi-> PaulFertser: auto-halfduplex?
Apr 16 18:05:17 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: what architecture would you choose... if you were to implement SIP integration in FSO land?
Apr 16 18:05:25 <PaulFertser> morphis_: btw, what's the plan for n900 support, is it anywhere close to being useable?
Apr 16 18:05:54 <morphis_> PaulFertser: I can't say anything about n900, I don't have one
Apr 16 18:06:03 <morphis_> PaulFertser: ask mrmoku
Apr 16 18:06:06 <PaulFertser> lindi-: yes, when linphone basically stops emitting any sounds if it detects mic activity.
Apr 16 18:06:25 <lindi-> PaulFertser: odd, I used linphone in my tests and the echo ruined it all
Apr 16 18:06:49 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: it is quite unchanged since we talked last time :/ I was off the first quarter of this year due to private reasons
Apr 16 18:07:26 <mrmoku> starting to come back... and I still would like to work on n900... but my priority is on gta04
Apr 16 18:07:43 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i'm talking about "echo limiter" from http://www.linphone.org/eng/documentation/dev/tuning-linphone.html
Apr 16 18:13:23 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: n900 needs some serious low-level hacker's love...
Apr 16 18:26:33 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: you mean inside kernel? yeah that is true too... not something I will be able to do though. But what I can do is try to make basic phonecalls and SM work
Apr 16 18:27:55 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: audio routing seems to require some low-level expertise too.
Apr 16 18:32:06 <mrmoku> yeah, damn audio routing everywhere... 
Apr 16 18:43:29 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: even if it all works, is power-saving and other important features in the upstream kernel are ready to be used on a daily phone?
Apr 16 18:51:08 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: I have no idea... but we will never know if we don't get to the point where the basics work to actually try it
Apr 16 18:51:19 <mrmoku> probably battery life won't be wonderfull
Apr 16 18:51:34 <mrmoku> and that is something we won't be able to fix by ourselves
Apr 16 18:51:56 <mrmoku> but at least being able to do a phone call and send a message is something I want to achieve
Apr 16 18:53:54 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: phone functionality is not that important. Do you know anybody using n900 with sane upstream software as a PDA?
Apr 16 18:54:50 <Alex[sp3dev]> one thing to note about upstream kernel is that suspend almost never works out of the box there on most SoCs, unfortunately
Apr 16 18:55:27 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: with SHR?
Apr 16 18:55:45 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: with anything non-maemo.
Apr 16 18:56:15 <mrmoku> no, I don't know anybody
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 17 02:59:59 2012