**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 04 02:59:59 2012
May 04 04:26:29 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rd9853077a749 10/libmsmhll/msmhll/Makefile.am: libmsmhll: refactor automake logic
May 04 04:26:30 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r669a8d9d0570 10/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Update autogen.sh scripts for all components
May 04 04:40:02 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * r7c98b72374ef 10/packages/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/ (48 files in 48 dirs): packages: Build 201205040231 of shr 20120504 for machine om-gta02 on opmbuild
May 04 07:49:39 <morphis> heyho
May 04 07:50:05 <JaMa> heyho
May 04 08:36:11 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r40842357a535 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/at/atnetworkmediators.vala: fsogsmd: lib: atnetworkmediators: take care that mandatory keys/values are always available
May 04 08:36:11 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r7cca42a1d13f 10/fsogsmd/ (8 files in 6 dirs): fsogsmd: modem_phonesim: add basic modem plugin for phonesim support
May 04 08:36:11 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r677ba6a13710 10/fsogsmd/conf/default/Makefile.am: fsogsmd: conf: correct destination folder for default configuration
May 04 08:36:12 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rb65fc05e230e 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/at/atnetworkmediators.vala: fsogsmd: lib: atnetworkmediators: take first result of +CREG? for network registration status and mode
May 04 08:36:12 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * re9a2a9588305 10/fsogsmd/ (7 files in 6 dirs): fsogsmd: lib: atcommandsequence: rework AtCommandSequence to inherit from a common interface
May 04 12:20:45 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rf9578f1ae360 10/fsogsmd/tests/Makefile.am: fsogsmd: tests: rework makefile
May 04 12:20:46 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rfa9cdf0455a5 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/at/ (atchannel.vala atcommands.vala atnetworkmediators.vala): fsogsmd: lib: at: configure network registration report type on channel initialization
May 04 14:38:33 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * re713a506a86a 10/fsogsmd/ (7 files in 6 dirs): 
May 04 14:38:33 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: Revert "fsogsmd: lib: atcommandsequence: rework AtCommandSequence to inherit from a common interface"
May 04 14:38:33 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit e9a2a958830596d7125843cc10062fd5bca9b6cb.
May 04 14:38:33 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: Conflicts:
May 04 14:38:33 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org:  fsogsmd/tests/Makefile.am
May 04 16:14:25 <alabd> Good day all , have flashed these Uimage http://bit.ly/KvDpAf and rootfs http://bit.ly/ILOtvK on Nand , but shr does not boot and at first of boot it returns > debugfs dir creation failed -19 ..argh.No free space left for GC ...Error garbage collecting mode at 02220000! ... of course should say have installed android on Nand BEFORE in this way  > http://www.pastie.org/3859709  ...is the problem related to prev android installation ?
May 04 16:20:06 <JaMa> maybe not.. some people have problems with systemd and NAND with new shr-core images if that's what's hiding in those bit.ly links
May 04 16:25:25 <alabd> JaMa: how to fix it 
May 04 16:25:56 <alabd> how to solve it ?
May 04 16:26:05 <alabd> it means , can't use shr-core?
May 04 16:27:39 <alabd> which version do you advice for daily use ?
May 04 16:29:26 <JaMa> shr-2012.01 
May 04 16:29:54 <alabd> testing ? unstable ? ...
May 04 16:34:48 <JaMa> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-2012.01/
May 04 16:35:46 <alabd> thanks but when usb cable in plugged in and then battery is connected to fr ...it tries to boot shr
May 04 16:37:09 <alabd> but hangs on udevd : staring version 182 
May 04 16:41:12 <alabd> unable to enumerate usb device
May 04 17:29:04 <gnutoo-gta02> hi mrmoku 
May 04 18:08:34 <morphis> JaMa: /tmp is volatile in SHR, right?
May 04 18:25:03 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07morphis/sms-rework * r2f44acacb941 10cornucopia/fsogsmd/src/lib/fsogsm3rdparty.vapi: 
May 04 18:25:03 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: lib: sms: use md5 hash of complete pdu as hash for single part SMS messages
May 04 18:25:03 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: Should fix bug #568
May 04 18:25:04 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07morphis/sms-rework * r880d2e9d2cc8 10cornucopia/fsogsmd/ (8 files in 5 dirs): fsogsmd: lib: complete rework of our sms handler/storage classes (still unfinished)
May 04 18:44:27 <nschle85> JaMa: hello, thank you for the example wpa_supplicant configuration but it also does not work. Do you have time to test Wifi/WPA2 with your N900 ?
May 04 19:43:58 <DocScrutinizer> all hail to systemd :-S
May 04 19:45:42 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: ?? I dont understand
May 04 19:46:16 * DocScrutinizer records there's been no change at all in SHR roadmap and paradigm since legendary 0808. Instead of consolidating it rather constantly adds new construction sites introducing new highly annoy^Winteresting bugs
May 04 19:47:32 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: what are construction sites ?
May 04 19:47:56 <DocScrutinizer> ...while delivery on original aim to provide a reliable OS for every-day-phone stalls somewhere ~75%
May 04 19:48:52 <DocScrutinizer> nschle85: [2012-05-04 18:20:05] <JaMa> maybe not.. some people have problems with systemd and NAND with new shr-core images if that's what's hiding in those bit.ly links
May 04 19:51:09 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: changing to to systemd was plannned since fsoshrcon11 and other distros has similar problems too 
May 04 19:51:45 <DocScrutinizer> well, a pretty good argument for those hoping to use SHR on their productive devices
May 04 19:52:45 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: for me (its my feeling) SHR is not productive since it moved to new OE-core
May 04 19:53:18 <DocScrutinizer> OM and SHR always suffered from all the devels heading forward joyfully to break new land, while nobody cares about consolidating things and eventually shipping a stable version
May 04 19:54:16 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: i think its a problem how oe and oe based projects are developed
May 04 19:54:32 <DocScrutinizer> even with gta02 I was the last man fighting for ironing out bugs from gta02A7/A8, while verybody else thought about gta02 as already obsolete and they focused on gta03
May 04 19:55:16 <DocScrutinizer> and I fully agree that this problem comes with basing on OE, which I always thought was a flawed concept 
May 04 19:55:46 <DocScrutinizer> OE is a bleeding edge moving target
May 04 19:55:59 <DocScrutinizer> you can't base stable products on it
May 04 19:56:45 <Alex[sp3dev]> why was shr not based on debian or gentoo from the start? 
May 04 19:58:30 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: the main problem is that oe is focused on source code, independent on working features behind
May 04 19:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> no idea, this been done before my time, or besides my focus
May 04 19:59:51 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: what is now much better is the compile time riliability
May 04 20:00:12 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: shr does always compile
May 04 20:00:27 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
May 04 20:01:01 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: I remember times where shr did not compile for several days
May 04 20:01:25 <DocScrutinizer> to describe this awesome fact appropriately, we need to reinvent the german saying "operation gelungen, patient tot"
May 04 20:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> maybe like this: "operation automated now, results 100% reproducible fatality"
May 04 20:03:07 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: what i want to tell is that there is some stability for compiling source, now the features needs to be stabilized
May 04 20:03:29 <DocScrutinizer> jeeeez
May 04 20:03:50 <DocScrutinizer> seems I heard similar last bold words like 3 years ago
May 04 20:04:11 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: the problem I have is, i can install the latest OM image on gta02 and it works better than shr now 
May 04 20:05:32 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: but how should development be done ?
May 04 20:06:13 <DocScrutinizer> since I'm sure evrery devel involved in SHR knows damn well about all this, and nobody feels encouraged by my rant, I'll simply shut up and hush for the next 2 years before I start again on it
May 04 20:06:15 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: at the moment there is some kind of tracking and testing 
May 04 20:08:10 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: you should NOT shut up, but how should the development process look like ?
May 04 20:08:54 <DocScrutinizer> it actually seems as if this particular problem is immanent to all community driven FOSS development - on each project there are always the devels that are eager to include bleeding edge and usually have compelling arguments why it should be done
May 04 20:09:09 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: why not just make a repository with kernels and fso for debian? OE and ipkg is ways shittier than debian, and not everything is prebuilt
May 04 20:09:29 <DocScrutinizer> the net result though is a decline of stability
May 04 20:10:08 <DocScrutinizer> and projects entering an infinite state of re-convalescence
May 04 20:10:21 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: it might be that people knew how OE worked but did not know how debian worked
May 04 20:10:28 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: which debian ? SID ? its comparable to oe dev :-)
May 04 20:10:41 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: testing
May 04 20:11:02 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: note that if you make crappy packages then ipkg won't be much worse than apt
May 04 20:12:08 <Alex[sp3dev]> lindi-: true
May 04 20:16:18 <DocScrutinizer> nschle85: I think on people.om.org/joerg there's still legendary golden 0808 as of >2 err 3, 4(?) years ago. I bet it works better still than most current version
May 04 20:17:35 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: JaMa: changed a lot in SHR, now we have independent branches from OE, we have testing images and the possibility to assing bugs to images.
May 04 20:18:19 <DocScrutinizer> great! did it result in current version > 0808?
May 04 20:19:00 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: no, but what was your success ?
May 04 20:19:08 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
May 04 20:19:45 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: what is the difference in development from history (0808) and now ?
May 04 20:20:03 <DocScrutinizer> I had great success, I'm now on a OS that works extremely reliable, and I'm working on LTE hardware for a living
May 04 20:20:49 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: which os is it ?
May 04 20:23:26 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: but i dont have any idea how to make shr development process better.
May 04 20:24:12 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: i know what is going wrong but i dont know how to solve it
May 04 20:26:10 <nschle85> but in my oppinion shr is alive, on meego or nemo channel i dont get any response of my problem
May 04 20:29:03 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: but anyway do you know how to solve the wifi/wpa2 problem on n900 ?
May 04 20:39:27 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: i dont know... i  guess most embedded developers are more active on oe so cchnaging patches is much easier here than importing into debian package ?? but i really dont know. But second guess is that oe supports more devices than debian... and ipk is designed for small devices and deb is for full computers with a lot of memeory 
May 04 20:40:53 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: using debian on xbox was sometimes ahorror because it has so less memory 
May 04 20:42:06 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: you know, i'm not an oe/shr developer, but i've been porting linux to my PDAs since 2007. i have tried opie/gpe for ui, but what i don't like about OE is that it has less prebuilt software than debian. as a user i want just a destkop distro like ubuntu, but optimized for touchscreen (i.e., virtual keyboard). dunno how others feel, but i personally do not like the idea of OE at all. sorry
May 04 20:43:34 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: next pro for oe is: an  image / init system / boot loader can be configured for the machine as like you want
May 04 20:44:38 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: using ubuntu pins all machines to the same infrastructure, true ?
May 04 20:45:11 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: i guess you can always create a package for the device. actually having per-machine code sounds like a bad idea,everything should be moved to configs. but again, i don't want to offend anyone. i hope i can find some time in june to put up my repository and try to automate building debian+fso for my sgs2
May 04 20:46:08 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: sgs2? 
May 04 20:46:15 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: samsung galaxy s2
May 04 20:48:10 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: which features are not working at the moment ?? (i am asking because  iam looking for the next phone)
May 04 20:49:27 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: do you use an own build kernel ?
May 04 20:49:35 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: it is not supported by fso at all. basically, someone (me?) needs to implement modem, it should be similiar to nexus, but i'm just busy with real life. sound works via alsa, wifi works via bcm4330 module (iwlist scan works)
May 04 20:49:39 <Alex[sp3dev]> oops ;)
May 04 20:50:22 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: yes, i've made a branch based on cm9 one, disabled androidisms and fixed touchscreen to work in X
May 04 20:51:02 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: i also tried to port everything to linaro kernel but failed to debug suspend and make mali driver work so decided to put that aside and work on userland
May 04 20:51:19 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: https://gitorious.org/i9100-proper-linux here is my project where you can get kernel and u-boot
May 04 20:51:50 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: but how far is galaxyS2 from N900 and gta04 ?
May 04 20:54:39 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: again, there was no fso integration done at all. basically, touchscreen, wifi, bt, audio (alsa) work. camera is v4l2 with some quirks. so, what needs fixing is suspend (it resumes if i do echo on to sysfs node, but not when i press the power button. maybe some androidism in kernel) and writing the modem plugin (there's already fw loading code, just need to put it all together)
May 04 20:55:21 <Alex[sp3dev]> i guess N900 has a proper OS from the factory, i would not even bother with OE if i had n900...
May 04 20:57:36 <Alex[sp3dev]> my plan is actually to fix cm9 kernel to work with uboot (or fix uboot to boot android kernel) and dual-boot then. if i could dual-boot, i'd probably not care about GSM at all and use it as a PDA
May 04 21:04:25 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: but N900 maemo is no longer supported, so i hoped to install some "standard linux" to gain new features and support shr
May 04 21:06:33 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: since maemo has X, you can install anything in chroot. besides there's mer nemo.
May 04 21:08:12 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: but kernel is old and has to work with it
May 04 21:08:43 <Alex[sp3dev]> isn't mer using some recent kernel?
May 04 21:09:00 <nschle85> no its using 2.6.37
May 04 21:09:09 <Alex[sp3dev]> that's not too old
May 04 21:09:20 <nschle85> later kernels doesnot work
May 04 21:11:35 <Alex[sp3dev]> the problem is that you can't work alone on both userland and kernel. kernel side takes a lot of time. i personally would love to see meego/ubuntu on sgs2, but shr would be ok as well. i guess that if you want to work on shr, everyone should be using the same device so that work could be distributed 
May 04 21:12:13 <Alex[sp3dev]> another problem is that devices get obsolete/slow/broken long before someone adds full support for them to OSS projects
May 04 21:13:54 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: the Phonet (HSI?) did change in kernel so the N900 needs adaption and does not work
May 04 21:14:35 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: but Gnutoo knows a lot more about that
May 04 21:15:08 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: that should not be hard to port if there exists working code for older versions. but i don't have neither of n900,gta02 and nexus s
May 04 21:15:48 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: and on which device are you running shr ?
May 04 21:16:38 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: i'm running it on sgs2 some times. since gsm is not working and it is not integrated to fso, i'm only using it during development sessions and then go back to android
May 04 21:18:25 <Alex[sp3dev]> so when i have time, i'll try to add gsm support for sgs2 to fso. i guess i can even create conf files for fsodeviced and alsa and bitbake recipes for kernel if someone takes care to commit them to relevant projects.
May 04 21:19:56 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: i think that everybody takes care :-)
May 04 21:21:45 <Alex[sp3dev]> ok, now i just need to find time for that
May 04 21:26:24 <DocScrutinizer> Alex[sp3dev]: well, N900 indeed has a "proper OS" from factory. And I don't feel any need for more recent kernels, since all I ever want to do on N900 can be done on this kernel as well. That'S basically why I got 3 N900 now, and am looking for getting a 4th new one when I can find
May 04 21:27:45 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: so i can hope of working wifi ?
May 04 21:28:14 <DocScrutinizer> hm? wifi worked like a charm on N900 fremantle ever since
May 04 21:28:35 <Alex[sp3dev]> DocScrutinizer: the only reason i didn't get an N900 is because it seemed to have a bit outdated hw. but on the other hand, it at least doesn't have tons of crap in kernel like my samsung
May 04 21:29:07 <Alex[sp3dev]> maybe i should buy an N9 and live a happy life
May 04 21:29:22 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: but its not working on shr :-)
May 04 21:29:29 <DocScrutinizer> you'll hate N9
May 04 21:29:55 <Alex[sp3dev]> DocScrutinizer: is it influenced by fedora and their lead developer Mr. P?
May 04 21:30:35 <DocScrutinizer> ~aegis
May 04 21:30:36 <apt> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
May 04 21:30:52 <Alex[sp3dev]> but it can be disabled, right?
May 04 21:30:57 <DocScrutinizer> nope
May 04 21:31:16 <DocScrutinizer> basically disabling it means installing an alternative OS
May 04 21:32:09 <DocScrutinizer> e.g. your ssl certs are stored in aegisfs
May 04 21:32:32 <DocScrutinizer> which means you can't disable aegis without losing access to all certs
May 04 21:32:45 <DocScrutinizer> lots of similar issues
May 04 21:32:47 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: can you fix my wifi problem ?
May 04 21:32:57 <DocScrutinizer> how could I?
May 04 21:33:13 <DocScrutinizer> I've never touched SHR since >2 years
May 04 21:33:34 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: you know a lot of linux
May 04 21:33:40 <DocScrutinizer> a bit
May 04 21:34:08 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: but who can help me ?
May 04 21:34:12 <DocScrutinizer> but definitely I have no clue what's WiFi problem in SHR
May 04 21:34:46 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: http://shr-project.org/trac/ticket/1979
May 04 21:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> nschle85: sorry, I don't know who feels responsible for N900 SHR WiFi
May 04 21:34:55 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: if that can make you happier, i had xperia x1 (which is a winmo phone with htc dream hw and wvga screen). it had wl1251. and with linux 2.6.35 and wl1251 from linux 3.0 wpa2 worked under android
May 04 21:35:31 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
May 04 21:35:35 <Alex[sp3dev]> so you should try 1.the wifi driver from mainline kernel and 2. wpa_supplicant with nl80211
May 04 21:35:51 <DocScrutinizer> there shouldn't be much special in N900 wl1251
May 04 21:36:15 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: scanning networks works
May 04 21:36:41 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: Alex[sp3dev]: but i cannot connect
May 04 21:36:41 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
May 04 21:36:49 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
May 04 21:37:05 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like a wpa_supplicant problem then
May 04 21:37:43 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: yes but who can help then ?
May 04 21:38:32 <DocScrutinizer> nschle85: I'm actually sad about it, but I don't know
May 04 21:39:18 <DocScrutinizer> seems wpa_supplicant is a but anyway
May 04 21:39:31 <DocScrutinizer> s/but/bitch
May 04 21:42:11 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: the other problem is that nobody knows when it worked last time 
May 04 21:43:11 <nschle85> DocScrutinizer: so i asked on nemo and maemo channel but nobody is answering me
May 04 21:44:20 <nschle85> i think i should leave shr and buy a iphone and all is good
May 04 21:45:28 <Alex[sp3dev]> indeed. my new laptop can last all day without charging so i wonder why i need a phone at all
May 04 21:47:24 <nschle85> Alex[sp3dev]: i free and open and well doccumented phone hardware will be a dream ....
May 04 21:47:36 <nschle85> s/i/a/
May 04 21:47:37 <apt> nschle85 meant: Alex[sp3dev]: a free and open and well doccumented phone hardware will be a dream ....
May 04 21:50:00 <Alex[sp3dev]> nschle85: yes, open hardware would be good. with closed hardware there's nothing we can do except having to rewrite shitty code and reverse-engineer every driver. although i personally don't care if the phone is free and open as long as the carrier network is not. i'm more interested in having a linux-based pda than a linux phone
May 04 21:51:50 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: what do you do with a pda if you can't even browse the web?
May 04 21:52:51 <Alex[sp3dev]> lindi-: huh? i can use wifi or an usb wimax/lte network card. i'm not using 3g anyway
May 04 21:54:08 <nschle85> so i have to go to bed, my son will wake me up in 6 hours .........
May 04 21:54:16 <nschle85> bye
May 04 21:54:26 <Alex[sp3dev]> see you
May 04 21:54:36 <nschle85> bye
May 04 21:55:05 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: network card?
May 04 21:55:21 <Alex[sp3dev]> lindi-: a wimax dongle,just like a 3g dongle. never seen one?
May 04 21:55:29 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: what's the power consumption?
May 04 21:55:43 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: can you use it while you talk?
May 04 21:55:55 <Alex[sp3dev]> i'm forever alone and i don't talk
May 04 21:56:00 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: does it stick out of the device so that you can't put it to your pocket?
May 04 21:56:24 <Alex[sp3dev]> either way, for internet i use wifi. 3g is boths slow and expensive
May 04 21:56:40 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: I guess it depends on where you live
May 04 22:01:20 <Alex[sp3dev]> my point is not that we don't need open telephony. my point is that i personally can accept some binary blobs if reverse-engineering them is going to take longer than i'm planning to use the device. and also i think that with firmwares security is more important than openness and therefore i would not trust a modem firmware when the modem can access system ram, but i would not care about a usb/mmc device firmware since it does not have dma a
May 04 22:03:54 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: your irc client seems to send too long lines ...
May 04 22:04:30 <Alex[sp3dev]> lindi-: what do you mean? are you not receiving them?
May 04 22:04:57 * DocScrutinizer idly mentions he just did a 10min SIP call via N900 and WLAN, sipgate.de account
May 04 22:05:18 <DocScrutinizer> excellent audio
May 04 22:05:26 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: yeah it was cut at "have dma a"
May 04 22:05:27 <Alex[sp3dev]> voice calls without gsm? impossible. i don't believe you
May 04 22:05:46 <Alex[sp3dev]> lindi-: ok, i'll try to avoid such long phrases
May 04 22:06:01 <Alex[sp3dev]> lindi-: the end of the phrase was "have dma access to all system hw"
May 04 22:06:24 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * r3c30c732e33e 10/packages/ (2465 files in 2465 dirs): packages: Build 201205040641 of shr 20120504 for machine om-gta02 on opmbuild
May 04 22:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> this shared RAM approach is not used on all devices
May 04 22:08:38 <DocScrutinizer> and honestly it's quite a PITA from "inside the modem" as well
May 04 22:09:19 <Alex[sp3dev]> DocScrutinizer: could you explain that last sentence?
May 04 22:09:54 <DocScrutinizer> I'm working on LTE modem firmware in my dayjob
May 04 22:10:07 <DocScrutinizer> I see the world from "inside" the modem
May 04 22:10:38 <DocScrutinizer> shared RAM is a pita for me as modem firmware guy as well
May 04 22:11:11 <DocScrutinizer> the device builders do it for just one reason: save a component (RAM chip for modem)
May 04 22:12:12 <Alex[sp3dev]> what problems does shared ram bring? you could hardcode the memory layout and always use the same area for modem
May 04 22:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 04 22:12:36 <DocScrutinizer> I guess that's what's actually done
May 04 22:13:45 <lindi-> Alex[sp3dev]: you can't turn the RAM off when you suspend the main CPU
May 04 22:14:17 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 04 22:14:41 <DocScrutinizer> though nobody suspends main CPU nowadays
May 04 22:15:03 <DocScrutinizer> but you switch RAM to low power mode
May 04 22:15:51 <lindi-> I do suspend the CPU :)
May 04 22:15:58 <DocScrutinizer> some RAM chips allow to segment the RAM and switch power mode for each segment
May 04 22:16:09 <lindi-> I guess you don't use openmoko though
May 04 22:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, OM idea of suspending device been a dead end idea from beginning
May 04 22:17:06 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: isn't that a general property of the chipset?
May 04 22:17:38 <DocScrutinizer> I guess what you mean is "can all SoCs do zero-clock?" - no 
May 04 22:18:01 <lindi-> yeah, I understood that many phones still need to suspend
May 04 22:18:07 <lindi-> no statistics though
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