**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 17 03:00:00 2012
May 17 07:36:36 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07shr-makefile * rd11f92ea9f93 10/conf/shr-core/bblayers.conf: bblayers: add meta-systemd layer
May 17 09:06:47 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * rffabaa48f5d6 10/packages/ (380 files in 380 dirs): packages: Build 201205171016 of shr 20120517 for machine om-gta02 on opmbuild
May 17 09:49:54 <ayaka> it seems the autogen.sh of android in shr git
May 17 09:50:06 <ayaka> it can't finish its work
May 17 09:53:50 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * rf33f15765a53 10/packages/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/ (23 files in 23 dirs): packages: Build 201205171135 of shr 20120517 for machine om-gta02 on opmbuild
May 17 10:49:59 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * rd4f77b356e5a 10/packages/ (403 files in 403 dirs): packages: Build 201205171200 of shr 20120517 for machine nokia900 on opmbuild
May 17 11:13:17 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07shr-makefile * r017dd32e150f 10/ (Makefile conf/shr-core/bblayers.conf): replace meta-mozilla and meta-chromium with meta-browser
May 17 11:13:27 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * rcc7f4459b2b2 10/packages/om_gta04-oe-linux-gnueabi/shr-version/ (latest shr-version/latest): packages: Build 201205171257 of shr 20120517 for machine om-gta04 on opmbuild
May 17 11:38:25 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * ra473cc70300a 10/packages/palmpre-oe-linux-gnueabi/shr-version/ (latest shr-version/latest): packages: Build 201205171323 of shr 20120517 for machine palmpre on opmbuild
May 17 12:00:12 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * ra232a2c8273a 10/packages/palmpre2-oe-linux-gnueabi/shr-version/ (latest shr-version/latest): packages: Build 201205171345 of shr 20120517 for machine palmpre2 on opmbuild
May 17 12:17:07 <PaulFertser> why the hell not only Sean-the-weirdo is silent but also our friends Roh and Gismo?
May 17 12:19:28 <JaMa> looks like plan C :/
May 17 12:21:32 <PaulFertser> Hm, i've an idea. Can SHR issue a press-release to be aggregated on planet openmoko that states that the SHR team is rather unhappy with Sean being silent?
May 17 12:22:59 <PaulFertser> I think he finally deserved some shame. :/ 
May 17 12:24:41 <JaMa> I don't have account on http://blog.shr-project.org/, but pespin was blogging there, we can ask him to update it
May 17 12:24:53 <JaMa> well state of SHR team is also a bit shame :)
May 17 12:30:14 <PaulFertser> SHR+FSO is still doing quite good.
May 17 12:31:36 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * rb0d4f86b6171 10/images/om_gta02/eglibc/shr-image/ (5 files): images: Build 201205171406 of shr 20120517 for machine om-gta02 on opmbuild
May 17 12:35:40 <pabs3> JaMa: I note there is some spam on the SHR blog too
May 17 12:35:49 <pabs3> http://blog.shr-project.org/2011/02/free-platforms-go-on-despite-former-giants-nogo.html
May 17 12:36:17 <JaMa> pabs3: yup :/
May 17 12:36:43 <ayaka> it seems the bootloader or second bootloader cause my problem, I do a test today
May 17 12:38:07 <ayaka> A image with useable initramfs(from android), test A: let fastboot it , test B: let fastboot boot it with cmdline(root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 rootwait noinitrd)
May 17 12:38:39 <ayaka> it shows different in screen( but test B failed as before)
May 17 12:39:07 <ayaka> it seems the SPL load the initramfs, not the kernel
May 17 13:04:02 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * r4ebbc45184f4 10/images/nokia900/eglibc/shr-image/ (5 files): images: Build 201205171439 of shr 20120517 for machine nokia900 on opmbuild
May 17 13:26:15 <ayaka> Is there anyway to change SPL or bootloader, I can't compile lk_bootloader
May 17 13:27:35 <GNUtoo-desktop> ayaka, don't touch the bootloader because:
May 17 13:27:41 <GNUtoo-desktop> 1) it can brick your device
May 17 13:27:48 <GNUtoo-desktop> 2) your problem is the kernel
May 17 13:28:06 <ayaka> GNUtoo-desktop do you know today test
May 17 13:28:10 <GNUtoo-desktop> unless you want to chainload a bootloader
May 17 13:28:24 <GNUtoo-desktop> today test???
May 17 13:28:30 <ayaka> only when I said today test, you were not here
May 17 13:28:54 <ayaka> my problem, I do a test today
May 17 13:28:54 <ayaka> [20:40] <ayaka> A image with useable initramfs(from android), test A: let fastboot it , test B: let fastboot boot it with cmdline(root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 rootwait noinitrd)
May 17 13:28:54 <ayaka> [20:41] <ayaka> it shows different in screen( but test B failed as before)
May 17 13:28:54 <ayaka> [20:41] <ayaka> it seems the SPL load the initramfs, not the kernel
May 17 13:28:54 <ayaka> [21:06] <CIA-17> SHR: shr-devel buildhistory * r4ebbc45184f4 /images/nokia900/eglibc/shr-image/ (5 files): images: Build 201205171439 of shr 20120517 for machine nokia900 on opmbuild
May 17 13:28:55 <ayaka> [21:28] <ayaka> Is there anyway to change SPL or bootloader, I can't compile lk_bootloader
May 17 13:29:33 <GNUtoo-desktop> ok
May 17 13:30:06 <GNUtoo-desktop> if spl loads the initramfs you must tell or teach the kernel not to use it
May 17 13:30:16 <ayaka> sorry, i paste too much log
May 17 13:31:53 <ayaka> in test A, i only see tux log, then only show a word--android(in fact I don't use the current roms' initrmafs, so don't boot in android) in test B, i saw the kernel message then restart auto
May 17 13:32:19 <ayaka> but maybe the hboot in kernel part cause that problem
May 17 13:32:38 <GNUtoo-desktop> did you remove the watchdog already?
May 17 13:33:34 <ayaka> I can't remove it, if i disable it, I can't compile kernel, the same as ashmem
May 17 13:33:52 <ayaka> in today test, i enable initramfs support
May 17 13:33:53 <GNUtoo-desktop> remove it and fix your kernel build
May 17 13:34:09 <GNUtoo-desktop> (for watchdog)
May 17 13:34:32 <ayaka> GNUtoo-desktop it seems htc don't modify kernel src properly making me can't disable it
May 17 13:34:52 <GNUtoo-desktop> as I said remove it and fix your kernel build
May 17 13:34:59 <GNUtoo-desktop> that means you vim the sources
May 17 13:35:03 <GNUtoo-desktop> you fix the error
May 17 13:35:09 <GNUtoo-desktop> and you recompile it
May 17 13:35:18 <ayaka> I see, I wish I have that ability
May 17 13:35:30 <GNUtoo-desktop> you need that ability
May 17 13:35:30 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * r574b9cdc3f96 10/images/om_gta04/eglibc/shr-image/ (5 files): images: Build 201205171511 of shr 20120517 for machine om-gta04 on opmbuild
May 17 13:35:36 <GNUtoo-desktop> else you won't go far
May 17 13:35:39 <ayaka> but why it is watchdog's problem
May 17 13:35:49 <GNUtoo-desktop> watchdog makes the system reboot
May 17 13:36:15 <GNUtoo-desktop> maybe you have to write to /dev/watchdog or something like that
May 17 13:36:44 <GNUtoo-desktop> are you aware that htc android kernel and the standard linux kenrel are very different?
May 17 13:37:04 <GNUtoo-desktop> for instance I'm not sure that you have alsa on your htc device
May 17 13:37:10 <ayaka> i see I know the htc kernel is different
May 17 13:37:15 <GNUtoo-desktop> which means no sound under debian unless you adapt a driver
May 17 13:37:28 <ayaka> I have alsa on kernel, and android need alsa
May 17 13:37:36 <GNUtoo-desktop> ok
May 17 13:37:54 <GNUtoo-desktop> then it may not work properly under debian
May 17 13:37:55 <ayaka> but it is not watchdog make reboot
May 17 13:37:56 <GNUtoo-desktop> not sure
May 17 13:38:03 <GNUtoo-desktop> ah?
May 17 13:38:07 <GNUtoo-desktop> what is it then?
May 17 13:38:36 <ayaka> Thread-68(parent:zygote): Restarting system with command 'bootloader'.
May 17 13:38:49 <ayaka> zygote is an android program
May 17 13:38:59 <GNUtoo-desktop> that's the case where you run android's init
May 17 13:39:14 <GNUtoo-desktop> I meant about the log where it doesn't run android's init
May 17 13:39:32 <GNUtoo-desktop> it restarted because of the msm_watchdog? right?
May 17 13:39:49 <ayaka> but I also see zygote_oneshot=off in kernel  cmdline
May 17 13:40:01 <GNUtoo-desktop> don't bother about zygote
May 17 13:40:18 <GNUtoo-desktop> it sound't run at all
May 17 13:40:47 <ayaka> GNUtoo-desktop yes it run android init, but it is the case i met, once config_vt=y, the initramfs will be loaded, and the init in it will be runned
May 17 13:40:53 <ayaka> it seems SPL do it
May 17 13:41:04 <GNUtoo-desktop> spl just does that:
May 17 13:41:10 <GNUtoo-desktop> it copy the initramfs in memory
May 17 13:41:18 <GNUtoo-desktop> then it's up to the kernel to use it or not
May 17 13:41:28 <GNUtoo-desktop> maybe it tells it to use it trough atags
May 17 13:41:30 <GNUtoo-desktop> check that
May 17 13:41:33 <GNUtoo-desktop> in the board config
May 17 13:42:07 <ayaka> but it in today test, kernel has used noinitd, and it show different when without it
May 17 13:43:10 <GNUtoo-desktop> let me look something
May 17 13:45:18 <GNUtoo-desktop> do you have the working config
May 17 13:45:34 <GNUtoo-desktop> the one that boots debian fine?
May 17 13:45:48 <ayaka> which working config? kernel?
May 17 13:46:00 <GNUtoo-desktop> the one that boots debian
May 17 13:46:16 <GNUtoo-desktop> try again to boot debian
May 17 13:46:18 <ayaka> booting debian fine means the one without config_vt?
May 17 13:46:30 <GNUtoo-desktop> 23_4
May 17 13:46:38 <GNUtoo-desktop> I guess so
May 17 13:46:44 <GNUtoo-desktop> try to make debian boot
May 17 13:46:48 <ayaka> yes
May 17 13:47:49 <ayaka> the kernel config about 23_4 can be found in 20_4
May 17 13:48:13 <GNUtoo-desktop> can you try something clean
May 17 13:48:18 <GNUtoo-desktop> just to be sure
May 17 13:48:32 <GNUtoo-desktop> let me look
May 17 13:49:34 <GNUtoo-desktop> you try to reproduce the debian boot
May 17 13:49:37 <GNUtoo-desktop> and we go from here
May 17 13:50:21 <ayaka> what shall I try
May 17 13:51:12 <ayaka> boot debian without config_vt, like what i do in 23_4, and use an empty initramfs ?
May 17 13:51:21 <GNUtoo-desktop> yes
May 17 13:51:26 <GNUtoo-desktop> whatever makes debian boot
May 17 13:53:01 <ayaka> ok, is there any added order? I have to do it tomorrow
May 17 13:53:18 <GNUtoo-desktop> ah?
May 17 13:53:25 <GNUtoo-desktop> if so:
May 17 13:53:29 <GNUtoo-desktop> 1)try to boot debian
May 17 13:53:30 <ayaka> like  kebrel based on config-1  20_4
May 17 13:53:37 <ayaka> kernel
May 17 13:53:38 <GNUtoo-desktop> cp .config defconfig_debian
May 17 13:53:45 <GNUtoo-desktop> then add CONFIG_VT
May 17 13:53:51 <GNUtoo-desktop> and try to boot it again
May 17 13:53:53 <GNUtoo-desktop> and then
May 17 13:54:09 <GNUtoo-desktop> diff -u defconfig_debian .config
May 17 13:55:29 <ayaka> ok, shall i use an empty initramfs or not, shall i enable initramfs in kernel or not
May 17 13:56:11 <GNUtoo-desktop> no idea
May 17 13:56:24 <GNUtoo-desktop> try to replicate the configuration where debian can boot
May 17 13:56:31 <GNUtoo-desktop> I don't know what you did at the time
May 17 13:58:42 <ayaka> before today test, all the initramfs i used is an empty initrmafs
May 17 13:58:48 <GNUtoo-desktop> ok
May 17 13:59:05 <GNUtoo-desktop> just try to replicate the setup when you had debian booting
May 17 13:59:42 <ayaka> i see, without any special request ？
May 17 13:59:59 <GNUtoo-desktop> no special things
May 17 14:00:05 <GNUtoo-desktop> special things comes after.....
May 17 14:00:21 <GNUtoo-desktop> the special things are:
May 17 14:00:22 <GNUtoo-desktop> <GNUtoo-desktop> cp .config defconfig_debian
May 17 14:00:25 <GNUtoo-desktop> <GNUtoo-desktop> then add CONFIG_VT
May 17 14:00:28 <GNUtoo-desktop> <GNUtoo-desktop> and try to boot it again
May 17 14:00:31 <GNUtoo-desktop> <GNUtoo-desktop> and then
May 17 14:00:34 <GNUtoo-desktop> <GNUtoo-desktop> diff -u defconfig_debian .config
May 17 14:01:10 <ayaka> I have seen it, i means except that , any others request ？
May 17 14:02:50 <GNUtoo-desktop> not yet
May 17 14:03:04 <GNUtoo-desktop> basically I want to be sure about the diff
May 17 14:03:11 <GNUtoo-desktop> because usually you select an option
May 17 14:03:21 <GNUtoo-desktop> and it causes other options to be selected automatically
May 17 14:03:31 <GNUtoo-desktop> because they have default y in Kconfig
May 17 14:03:58 <ayaka> I see, I will do that
May 17 14:05:17 <ayaka> GNUtoo-desktop thank you very much
May 17 14:05:25 <GNUtoo-desktop> np
May 17 14:06:03 <ayaka> but I want to also know some avaliable bootloader, i will chainload they
May 17 14:06:40 <GNUtoo-desktop> ok
May 17 14:06:58 <GNUtoo-desktop> I don't know about chainloaded bootloaders on qualcomm devices sorry
May 17 14:07:02 <GNUtoo-desktop> maybe ask #htc-linux
May 17 14:07:12 <GNUtoo-desktop> or Alex[sp3dev]
May 17 14:09:02 <ayaka> well, i think i can use normal bootloader to be chainloaded
May 17 14:10:00 <ayaka> sadness, Alex[sp3dev] is not present
May 17 14:11:25 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * r9ac998d8a38d 10/images/crespo/eglibc/ (8 files in 2 dirs): images: Build 201205171543 of shr 20120517 for machine crespo on opmbuild
May 17 14:11:36 <CIA-17> SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * r9891540cd07e 10/packages/crespo-oe-linux-gnueabi/shr-version/ (latest shr-version/latest): packages: Build 201205171543 of shr 20120517 for machine crespo on opmbuild
May 17 14:19:39 <ayaka> GNUtoo-desktop shall i modify kernel first, or boot debian first
May 17 14:19:59 <GNUtoo-desktop> ayaka, boot debian first
May 17 14:20:12 <GNUtoo-desktop> ayaka, if you want to succeed we must do it the scientific way....
May 17 14:20:23 <GNUtoo-desktop> else no one will understand a thing anymore
May 17 14:20:31 <GNUtoo-desktop> like if you change 10 things at once
May 17 14:20:38 <GNUtoo-desktop> how do you know which one broke it
May 17 14:20:40 <GNUtoo-desktop> etc...
May 17 14:21:48 <ayaka> GNUtoo-desktop i see, thank you
May 17 15:04:50 <rah> apparently Sean is "working with Harald Welte now on a solution"
May 17 15:05:07 <rah> which will happen when it happens
May 17 15:14:31 * rah is skeptical
May 17 15:25:24 <rah> DocScrutinizer: nobody is going to remove /home files
May 17 15:25:54 <rah> DocScrutinizer: nobody is going to be provided access to files that they shouldn't have access to
May 17 15:26:08 <rah> DocScrutinizer: nobody is going to do silly things
May 17 15:26:19 <rah> DocScrutinizer: nobody has proposed doing anything silly
May 17 15:32:34 <rah> DocScrutinizer: acting in a way that is reasonable, responsible and sensible is implied in any discussion of change by rational and mature adults
May 17 15:32:43 <rah> DocScrutinizer: you have nothing to fear
May 17 15:57:45 <PaulFertser> Status quo is changing and that's something that should always be taken seriously. Especially when it's in the hands of Sean who apparently behaves like an asshole now :/
May 17 17:04:08 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: 03GNUtoo 07cornucopia * rd3d9fbdec591 10/tools/mterm2/src/terminal.vala: 
May 17 17:04:08 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: mterm2: adjust for recent changes to libfsotransport about delegate handling
May 17 17:04:08 <CIA-17> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli <GNUtoo@no-log.org>
May 17 20:06:58 <jo4n> Hello
May 17 20:07:26 <DocScrutinizer> hi
May 17 20:07:37 <jo4n> I like vala, but im struggling with my "ide"
May 17 20:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> I haven't found any reason yet to like vala
May 17 20:09:02 <jo4n> i have a git remote repoitory stored local, my make is bitbake but i have alter bitbake recipe scrrev at every commit
May 17 20:09:11 <jo4n> why you dont like it?
May 17 20:09:41 <DocScrutinizer> see last post
May 17 20:10:00 <jo4n> it is fast..
May 17 20:10:05 <jo4n> my post or yours?
May 17 20:12:20 <PaulFertser> jo4n: you can use AUTOREV feature to always build the latest commit.
May 17 20:13:24 <jo4n> nice, thx ill try that
May 17 20:16:33 <jo4n> a reason could be: garbage collection ;)
May 17 20:18:56 * DocScrutinizer hates the concept of garbage collection
May 17 20:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> that's what ~destructors are for, no matter in which language you implement them
May 17 20:21:14 <DocScrutinizer> garbage collection vastly introduces indeterministic behavour to processes
May 17 20:21:59 <DocScrutinizer> or rather, unpredictable behaviour - given a CPU should always be a deterministic machine
May 17 20:27:18 <jo4n> i thought vala carbage collection  is deterministic, but i might  be wrong.
May 17 20:27:30 <DocScrutinizer> I dunno
May 17 20:28:13 <DocScrutinizer> I managed to avoid vala mostly, toldya I haven't found any reason yet to like or love or even use it
May 17 20:29:24 <DocScrutinizer> since I lost track with counting the languages I had to use in my life, it's not even for the guinness book of records I'd consider looking into yet another one
May 17 20:30:12 <jo4n> i like object oriented static typed compiles to c
May 17 20:30:29 <DocScrutinizer> 2158 reinventions of the wheel
May 17 20:32:35 <DocScrutinizer> and heck, I used the wording >>~destructors, no matter in which language you implement them<< by a reason. I coded OO in assembler, years before stroustrup(?) invented C++
May 17 20:34:20 <jo4n> there arent c++ bindings to elementary..
May 17 20:41:40 <DocScrutinizer> I know there are people who learn new (natural) languages just for the fun of it - even exotic shit like Latin or Esperanto. I guess a similar mindset will make some developers try another new coding language every 3 months. I'm not one of that crowd however, I think I can code whatver I need to, with 3 or 4 languages. Only amateurs need a huge toolbox, the real professional is happy with a small set of really good tools he knows 
May 17 20:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> each nasty detail of and can do amazing things with them
May 17 20:43:19 <misc> every 3 months seems to be too fast 
May 17 20:44:04 <jo4n> you are a pro. I want a support if i look at shr i can  "easy" use c, valla
May 17 20:44:09 <jo4n> or python
May 17 20:45:42 <DocScrutinizer> sure, since Mickey introduced it in FSO, vala is a core component of SHR
May 17 20:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> so nothing wrong with learning it, if you're interested in SHR
May 17 20:46:43 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not using SHR on a regular basis anymore (and no, not really because of vala)
May 17 20:47:24 <jo4n> there is nothing else
May 17 20:47:45 <DocScrutinizer> a pity though is I wasn't able to push FSO e.g. into mer, mainly because everybody frowned at vala
May 17 20:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> so that's the downside of picking an 'exotic' language for your foss project
May 17 20:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> esp when this languge isn't only exotic but also so new that you have to wait for language devels to implement stuff you need for your project 
May 17 20:50:55 <jo4n> my motivation:i like to have smartphone to do my stuff for me thats mostly email and calendar
May 17 20:51:06 <DocScrutinizer> AIUI FSO/SHR played guinea pig for vala
May 17 20:51:17 <jo4n> vala is late in my opinion
May 17 20:56:06 <jo4n> email and calendar isnot good on any platform i have looked at yet
May 17 22:20:34 <GNUtoo-desktop> jo4n, hi, I'm reading what you said
May 17 22:21:11 <GNUtoo-desktop> ok
May 17 22:21:19 <GNUtoo-desktop> jo4n, where are you stuck?
May 17 22:21:23 <jo4n> hi, i said to much
May 17 22:21:54 <GNUtoo-desktop> it's ok
May 17 22:22:03 <jo4n> i got help already: autorev works
May 17 22:22:07 <GNUtoo-desktop> ok
May 17 22:22:14 <GNUtoo-desktop> nice
May 17 22:22:43 <jo4n> you guys are great
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 18 02:59:58 2012