**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 02 02:59:59 2013
Jan 02 14:40:18 <ayaka> GNUtoo-x60,  have you heard this project ? https://gitorious.org/freedreno/
Jan 02 14:41:05 <GNUtoo-x60> yes of course
Jan 02 14:41:31 <ayaka> does it can work?
Jan 02 14:41:42 <ayaka> can it work? sorry
Jan 02 14:43:42 <GNUtoo-x60> no idea
Jan 02 14:44:34 <ayaka> maybe I can have tried, shall I, I will find a way to cross compile it
Jan 02 14:46:27 <GNUtoo-x60> yes however it might need a compatible kernel
Jan 02 14:46:45 <GNUtoo-x60> xf86-video-msm was hard to compile last time I tried
Jan 02 14:47:42 <ayaka> and the kernel can't work on my mobile
Jan 02 14:52:30 <xrmx> ayaka, upstream moved to github https://github.com/freedreno/freedreno
Jan 02 14:53:12 <ayaka> xrmx thank you I don't know that
Jan 02 15:23:08 <ayaka> what does that project need, kgsl?
Jan 02 16:21:08 <ayaka> I have another problem with mtd, do those nor flash whose size are among 2 to 8 MB used in router are CFI or JEDEC compliant
Jan 02 16:24:41 <PaulFertser> ayaka: many routers use SPI NOR flash.
Jan 02 16:25:07 <PaulFertser> ayaka: some others are using CFI flash, sometimes it's JEDEC-compliant.
Jan 02 16:56:45 <ayaka> PaulFertser so for SPI NOR flash , they are neither CFI nor JEDEC
Jan 02 17:03:06 <PaulFertser> ayaka: those are "m25p80-compliant" (i.e. they're supported by the in-kernel m25p80 driver, but they actually are using JEDEC IDs to detect the particular chip).
Jan 02 17:04:22 <ayaka> or I see
Jan 02 17:05:29 <ayaka> yes their's model number always contain w25
Jan 02 17:07:27 <ayaka> so if their size is 64Mbit(8MB) it is m25p64
Jan 02 17:07:59 <PaulFertser> ayaka: m25p64 doesn't tell everything about the chip.
Jan 02 17:08:37 <ayaka> sorry, I meant for NOR SPI flash
Jan 02 17:09:12 <PaulFertser> ayaka: yes
Jan 02 17:09:56 <PaulFertser> ayaka: it's important whether the flash supports 4k erase sectors or not.
Jan 02 17:10:35 <ayaka> then could you tell me the correct way to describle
Jan 02 17:14:56 <PaulFertser> ayaka: to describe what?
Jan 02 17:16:27 <ayaka> a flash model
Jan 02 17:17:16 <PaulFertser> ayaka: inside the m25p80 driver there's an array where you need to specify the model id for that chip, the size, the erase size and an optional SECT_4K flag.
Jan 02 17:17:38 <PaulFertser> ayaka: man, your questions are really cryptic and tbh ill-formed.
Jan 02 17:20:16 <ayaka> ok, sorry I don't know how to say that, but I thing I have know that, the necessary info for a SPI flash are size , erase size and erase sector size
Jan 02 17:21:35 <PaulFertser> ayaka: can't even parse that sentence, sorry. Is it a statement or a question?
Jan 02 17:23:42 <ayaka> ok, sorry I don't know how to say that, but I thing I have know that, the necessary info for a SPI flash are size , erase size and erase sector size, is it correct
Jan 02 17:25:40 <ayaka> sorry, becuase in chinese the diffence between staement from question is just a word"吗"
Jan 02 17:25:59 <PaulFertser> ayaka: ni hao ma :)
Jan 02 17:26:31 <ayaka> oh, you can speak chinese
Jan 02 17:26:33 <PaulFertser> ayaka: i strongly suggest you to work on actively improving your English grammar knowledge, it'll help a lot those trying to understand you.
Jan 02 17:27:07 <PaulFertser> ayaka: no, i can't of course. I just know the word ma :) You can substitute it with the question sign (?) in English ;)
Jan 02 17:27:12 <ayaka> yes, I know that, and I have tried, but sometime I forget
Jan 02 17:28:11 <ayaka> I know how importance the english is as chinese can't help me in computer
Jan 02 17:28:25 <PaulFertser> ayaka: i really recommend "English Grammar in Use" self-study FCE book.
Jan 02 17:30:34 <PaulFertser> ayaka: the answer to your question: http://lxr.linux.no/linux+*/drivers/mtd/devices/m25p80.c#L88
Jan 02 17:31:04 <ayaka> I see thank you
Jan 02 17:31:47 <PaulFertser> ayaka: hm, http://lxr.linux.no/linux+*/drivers/mtd/devices/m25p80.c#L599 this one is correct, sorry
Jan 02 17:34:46 <ayaka> it doesn't matter, I even don't know where to read it
Jan 02 17:35:37 <PaulFertser> ayaka: i've sent you a URL, it's accessible via the internet.
Jan 02 17:35:38 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, can SPI NOR flash be flashed with flashrom?
Jan 02 17:35:54 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: of course, i thought you've done it yourself, haven't you?
Jan 02 17:36:09 <ayaka> I have SPI flashrom using ch341a chip but only has windows software
Jan 02 17:36:28 <ayaka> it can work with 25 and 24 chip
Jan 02 17:36:36 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: all those SPI flash chips are NOR
Jan 02 17:36:36 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, not for NOR flash, I flashed BIOS chips
Jan 02 17:36:46 <GNUtoo-x60> ah ok
Jan 02 17:36:46 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: i'm almost sure those were NOR chips.
Jan 02 17:36:49 <PaulFertser> :)
Jan 02 17:36:54 <GNUtoo-x60> I didn't draw the connection
Jan 02 17:36:56 <GNUtoo-x60> thanks a lot
Jan 02 17:37:04 <GNUtoo-x60> I've also a pomona clip
Jan 02 17:37:12 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: np :) btw, congratulations with getting the rotation working!
Jan 02 17:37:26 <ayaka> GNUtoo-x60 I think it can, wait a moment, brb
Jan 02 17:38:06 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: btw, is it true one can reflash an SPI memory chip without desoldering it? What's the trick?
Jan 02 17:38:54 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, thanks
Jan 02 17:39:08 <ayaka> search ch341a, it is very cheap
Jan 02 17:39:18 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, yes it's true, it depend on how it's setup
Jan 02 17:39:31 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, s/setup/wired on the mainboard/
Jan 02 17:39:49 <GNUtoo-x60> basically I powered the x60 down, wired the pomona clip normally and flashed it 
Jan 02 17:39:51 <GNUtoo-x60> that's all
Jan 02 17:39:54 <GNUtoo-x60> it worked out of the box
Jan 02 17:40:21 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: but wouldn't it power the CPU too? Wouldn't the MOSI signal go both to the flash and to the CPU or the chipset IC?
Jan 02 17:40:35 <ayaka> it can flash 25 and 24  chip , but only can detect 25 chip , size up tp 32MB(unstable) 8M(very stable) but just slow
Jan 02 17:40:55 <PaulFertser> ayaka: flashrom flashes everything :)
Jan 02 17:40:58 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, here's the page with safety information:
Jan 02 17:41:15 <GNUtoo-x60> https://www.coreboot.org/Lenovo_x60x#Howto
Jan 02 17:42:57 <ayaka> PaulFertser I don't know what is flashrom exectly, but I have used to save my router, it can only support chip size in DIP8 and SOP8
Jan 02 17:44:56 <GNUtoo-x60> http://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom
Jan 02 17:45:05 <ayaka> GNUtoo-x60 you are also interested in coreboot too, but my cmos chip seems not be DIP8 or SOP8 size
Jan 02 17:45:30 <GNUtoo-x60> I've 2 coreboot computers:
Jan 02 17:45:33 <GNUtoo-x60> -> the x60
Jan 02 17:45:44 <GNUtoo-x60> -> the M4A785T-M(I did the port)
Jan 02 17:46:06 <GNUtoo-x60> https://www.coreboot.org/ASUS_M4A785T-M
Jan 02 17:46:45 <ayaka> that is what I used flashrom cryptic
Jan 02 17:46:59 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: i do not think it's that easy. The chipset is getting powered by the MOSI line most probably. But the CPU is probably not so if your programmer is capable of supplying enough current via the MOSI pin to power the chipset then i see how it can work. 
Jan 02 17:47:12 <ayaka> sorry the link http://a.m.taobao.com/i14581882621.htm
Jan 02 17:47:34 <ayaka> cryptic is what I copy for ditionary
Jan 02 17:48:30 <ayaka> PaulFertser my flashrom can flash tp-wr841n
Jan 02 17:48:44 <ayaka> I think bios is not  a problem
Jan 02 17:49:18 <PaulFertser> ayaka: flashrom is the name of a free software utility.
Jan 02 17:49:41 <ayaka> sorry, I think it is a machine
Jan 02 17:50:07 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: do you know that when you apply voltage to a digital pin of an unpowered IC then you'll most likely power it up via that pin (due to parasitic diodes)?
Jan 02 17:50:22 <ayaka> I think utility is a tool, so it is a machine
Jan 02 17:51:52 <GNUtoo-x60> flashrom is a command line program
Jan 02 17:52:14 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, I guess it's dangerous?
Jan 02 17:52:17 <ayaka> I have known
Jan 02 17:52:45 <GNUtoo-x60> PaulFertser, I had no choice, I had to reflash because some coreboot dev gave me bad advise for flashing the x60
Jan 02 17:52:56 <GNUtoo-x60> and the computer didn't boot
Jan 02 17:54:02 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: i do not think it's dangerous, but it might not work if the programmer is not capable of supplying big enough current via its GPIO. 
Jan 02 17:54:21 <GNUtoo-x60> ah ok right
Jan 02 17:54:47 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: also, this is probably unlikely to work on soho routers as it's likely the power supply rail is common for the chip and the SoC and so the SoC will get powered and will try to override your MOSI etc.
Jan 02 17:55:24 <ayaka> I thought that only embedded system use GPIO before
Jan 02 17:55:34 <PaulFertser> All systems do
Jan 02 17:55:36 <ayaka> I think x86 use smbus
Jan 02 17:56:15 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 02 17:56:20 <PaulFertser> ayaka: do you know what GPIO is?
Jan 02 17:56:33 <GNUtoo-x60> GPIO are available on chipset for instance
Jan 02 17:56:39 <GNUtoo-x60> like mainboard chipsets
Jan 02 17:56:48 <GNUtoo-x60> and they are sometimes connected to chip enable
Jan 02 17:56:51 <GNUtoo-x60> of the BIOS chip
Jan 02 17:57:10 <ayaka> I think GPIO is a bus
Jan 02 17:57:15 <PaulFertser> Also, i was talking about the GPIO pin of the programmer.
Jan 02 17:57:17 <GNUtoo-x60> http://people.freedesktop.org/~libv/flash_enable_bios_reverse_engineering_(FOSDEM2010_-_slides).pdf
Jan 02 17:57:21 <GNUtoo-x60> see that ^^^
Jan 02 17:57:30 <PaulFertser> Luc ftw
Jan 02 17:57:47 <GNUtoo-x60> indeed
Jan 02 17:58:02 <GNUtoo-x60> he does mali reversing nowadays I think
Jan 02 17:59:58 <PaulFertser> Yes, he wrote he got back to doing it. I've no clue what he was doing for the previous two months though.
Jan 02 18:00:24 <ayaka> so GPIO is not a bus?
Jan 02 18:00:42 <PaulFertser> Of course not :)
Jan 02 18:01:18 <ayaka> it is just like a pin to set status, don't it
Jan 02 18:01:24 <PaulFertser> Yes
Jan 02 18:02:17 <ayaka> then I fail to confuse, how doesn't my router's cpu connect with ethernet switch(it is a NIC)
Jan 02 18:03:06 <PaulFertser> ayaka: some have embedded ethernet switch, some are connected via RMII to a PHY (with switch capabilities).
Jan 02 18:03:57 <ayaka> ok I learn some some word, I will search they tomorrow
Jan 02 18:04:46 <PaulFertser> Then go transformers of course, and then the RJ45 sockets.
Jan 02 18:06:12 <ayaka> are there another bus used in moble
Jan 02 18:06:19 <ayaka> in mobile I meant
Jan 02 18:06:40 <PaulFertser> I2C, PCM
Jan 02 18:06:44 <PaulFertser> UART
Jan 02 18:07:02 <PaulFertser> Two-ports RAM
Jan 02 18:07:23 <PaulFertser> SDIO
Jan 02 18:07:32 <PaulFertser> Internal USB connections
Jan 02 18:08:05 <ayaka> about UART, I think it is something like serial port
Jan 02 18:08:22 <PaulFertser> It is a serial port :)
Jan 02 18:08:40 <GNUtoo-x60> what's the difference between UART and USART?
Jan 02 18:08:42 <ayaka> how about they speed, maybe let me do a search tomorrow
Jan 02 18:09:01 <GNUtoo-x60> I saw both them in the atmega something manual
Jan 02 18:09:09 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-x60: USART is a SoC/uC module that has some extended capabilities. Depends on the SoC model.
Jan 02 18:09:13 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 02 18:09:16 <GNUtoo-x60> like SPI?
Jan 02 18:09:39 <PaulFertser> Like sync communication or something like that, i do not remember exactly.
Jan 02 18:10:00 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 02 18:13:04 <PaulFertser> The regular NAND interface can be considered a bus too.
Jan 02 18:15:28 <ayaka> thank you too much, it is good leason today, let me bouncer record it when I will be off
Jan 02 18:16:39 <ayaka> oh, about coreboot, does it support boot from gpt patition?
Jan 02 18:16:44 <PaulFertser> ayaka: good luck :)
Jan 02 18:16:57 <PaulFertser> ayaka: i hope you'll find the place to download the FCE book for free ;)
Jan 02 18:18:24 <ayaka> yes, that is a big problem, but if it cheap, I will buy iy
Jan 02 18:18:26 <ayaka> it
Jan 02 18:25:05 <GNUtoo-x60> thanks
Jan 02 20:36:11 <Alex[sp3dev]> hi fellows
Jan 02 20:49:51 <GNUtoo-x60> hi
Jan 02 20:50:04 <Alex[sp3dev]> GNUtoo-x60: how's it going? 
Jan 02 20:50:27 <Alex[sp3dev]> GNUtoo-x60: happy new year btw. and it looks like we got a 30-minute time slot at FOSDEM :)
Jan 02 20:58:31 <GNUtoo-x60> Alex[sp3dev], happy new year
Jan 02 20:59:26 <GNUtoo-x60> do you have details on FOSDEM?
Jan 02 21:00:52 <Alex[sp3dev]> GNUtoo-x60: https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/track/microkernels_and_component_based_os/ Vasily is giving a talk on microkernels and I'll probably have a chance to speak or prepare the slides
Jan 02 21:01:22 <GNUtoo-x60> ok wow
Jan 02 21:02:50 <Alex[sp3dev]> I still need to get a schengen visa. i'm coming back to moscow on jan 15th so got only 2 weeks for that. and gotta prepare the demo :)
Jan 02 21:04:00 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 02 21:51:53 <GNUtoo-x60> JaMa, hi
Jan 02 21:51:58 <GNUtoo-x60> does midori configure for you?
Jan 02 21:52:07 <GNUtoo-x60> for me it's blocked on configure
Jan 02 21:52:15 <GNUtoo-x60> Checking for header locale.h                : 
Jan 02 21:53:01 <GNUtoo-x60> I'll stop the build and restart it
Jan 02 22:04:23 <JaMa> GNUtoo-x60: sometimes waf does that, I haven't seen it since I've fixed it last time
Jan 02 22:04:42 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 03 02:59:59 2013