**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 02 02:59:58 2015 Mar 02 19:23:44 is there an affordable smartphone that is sensibly open enough so I could run not-android on it without major regressions? Mar 02 19:24:20 or is that a pipe dream still Mar 02 19:49:53 run not-android.... unless it's a old n900? Mar 02 19:50:11 zipit z2? Mar 02 19:50:28 not a phone but runns openwrt with gui Mar 02 19:50:46 with usb 1.1 host via diy addaptor Mar 02 19:50:59 + 5v power boost Mar 02 19:51:17 but for the wifi firmware runs only free software Mar 02 19:51:26 n900 is sorta cool, with real keyboard, usb host etc. Mar 02 19:51:35 add gps via serial or usb Mar 02 19:52:05 But I'm still with my gta02. Mar 02 19:52:15 but with only 32mb ram apps like navit could only calulate remote routes and not city roads Mar 02 19:52:39 if it can manage to do any route calculation Mar 02 19:52:48 hmm might need a swap Mar 02 19:53:17 was it that navit needed 64mb ram... for country routes Mar 02 19:53:31 someone has got navit working anyway Mar 02 19:53:48 i digress, zipit is £20 including postage Mar 02 19:53:56 £20 or less Mar 02 19:54:23 personal i bought a 2rd hand gta04 :D Mar 02 19:54:58 n900 software is old and stuck Mar 02 19:55:05 no more updates right? Mar 02 19:55:20 but theres keen n900 users Mar 02 19:55:42 i really don't know of another options Mar 02 19:55:54 another= any other Mar 02 20:05:27 there are updaes (cssu) .. but yeah, things are getting old fast Mar 02 20:13:03 arossdotme: no voice calls with z2? Mar 02 20:27:41 CcxCZ: maybe jolla? Mar 02 20:28:33 depends on your definition of "sensibly open" Mar 02 20:29:24 no real way to reflash the thing when you completely bricked it, incl the rescue system on a separate partition Mar 02 20:31:20 plus "sensibly open" doesn't imply "reasonably secure" - jolla's sailfish OS basically runs "under control" of the closed blob radio stack firmware that shares the RAM and CPU with the linux system Mar 02 20:31:43 arossdotme: had n900… nice except for all the proprietary vendor-locked-in & abandoned things Mar 02 20:32:18 in that regard it's basically identical to the average android, it actually even exploits the android RIL afaik Mar 02 20:32:56 "proprietary vendor-locked-in & abandoned things" in N900? Mar 02 20:33:51 you'll hardly find any commercially sold phone which has less of them, in system critical tasks Mar 02 20:34:42 actually SHR and other completely FOSS OS run on N900 Mar 02 20:34:47 yeah, many many of them. all of the gui. and the audio subsystem that runs nokia-altered incompatible-with-anyting archaic version of pulseaudio (and yes you need it, since PA drives the volume knobs directly) Mar 02 20:34:48 and there's Mar 02 20:34:50 ~fptf Mar 02 20:34:51 i heard fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 Mar 02 20:35:08 the GUI is completely FOSS Mar 02 20:36:04 and you don't really need PA, you need it in maemo, yes Mar 02 20:36:16 SHR comes completely without PA Mar 02 20:37:21 actually there's very little in PA that's closed blob and really needed for maemo Mar 02 20:37:55 some of the OHM and policy enforcer stuff is closed prolog(!) stuff Mar 02 20:38:08 heh, <3 prolog Mar 02 20:38:17 and some PA plugins for audio enhancement in voice calls are somewhat "needed" Mar 02 20:38:34 I'm really looking forward to neo900, but now I'm more looking for replacement for my dying Nokia 6300 Mar 02 20:38:41 ~#maemo closed Mar 02 20:38:42 i heard #maemo closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages Mar 02 20:39:15 http://elinux.org/N900 Mar 02 20:39:24 and wondering if I should go for second-hand featurephone again or if there is anything bit more hackable which won't make me barf coffee beans Mar 02 20:41:13 ~#maemo closed is also http://elinux.org/N900 Mar 02 20:41:14 DocScrutinizer05: okay Mar 02 20:41:19 ~#maemo closed Mar 02 20:41:20 methinks #maemo closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 Mar 02 20:42:21 ((anything bit more hackable)) don't know of anything Mar 02 20:42:25 I know, there's also this nice chart http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture but I haven't come to discuss that Mar 02 20:43:03 well, that's really old Mar 02 20:43:33 it#s still correct for the structure, but not for the (lack of) openness it implies Mar 02 20:44:09 cssu and fptf did a hell of a job already Mar 02 20:44:40 and GUI for example never been closed proprietary Mar 02 20:45:11 some *apps* are, like calendar, phonebook Mar 02 20:46:00 good to hear that Mar 02 20:47:11 PaulFertser: nope, unless you add a usb mob modem and the software, someones been working on diy voip/video chat Mar 02 20:47:47 CcxCZ: pleased to hear you like Neo900 Mar 02 20:48:46 o/ afk Mar 02 20:49:27 Yeah, it'd be my pocket computer of choice. I try to keep the "phone" functionality on a separate device though :] Mar 02 20:51:32 mmh a neo900 would be nice.... i can see the attachion of the keyboard and bigger screen with my gta04 Mar 02 20:51:42 attraction Mar 02 20:52:21 I've also pondered openpandora before neo900 was a thing Mar 02 20:52:32 but i'l still like my gta04 but should a few £££ come my way i might manager to invest ;) Mar 02 20:52:42 in a neo900 as well :) Mar 02 20:52:46 arossdotme: does it have an internal connector or something to connect a modem module via uart and attach headset directly to it? Mar 02 20:53:10 you can solder in wires for uart Mar 02 20:53:35 worl on mic suport has been down latey and its tested and working Mar 02 20:54:47 you can get mic and headphone via the breakout conntect or the back or headphone via the 3.5mm jack and mic+remote control via the wired socet nextto the headphone, don't know of any plugs to get the mic + remote via that conntector though Mar 02 20:54:54 arossdotme: hm, so that thing is just 20 gbp? Where do you recommend to buy it? Mar 02 20:54:55 or=on the back Mar 02 20:55:15 socket Mar 02 20:55:48 so for mic you might want to get it via the breakout connector but that sticks out Mar 02 20:56:18 PaulFertser: hmm idk, depends on your needs, while the zipit is cheep it's all the extras that add up Mar 02 20:56:36 arossdotme: what extras? Mar 02 20:57:53 the breakout conntect is £4 *each* from farnnel. a new batt is what £!0 +/- as the current one is several years old and only got a few mins of life Mar 02 20:58:03 £10 Mar 02 20:58:13 more of less Mar 02 20:58:24 roughly Mar 02 20:59:03 adafruit 1A+ usb power boost £144 Mar 02 20:59:05 opps Mar 02 20:59:08 £14 Mar 02 20:59:15 not 144 :P Mar 02 20:59:33 £4 or less for a usb hubfrom china Mar 02 21:00:08 the zipit z2s battery chager is setup for fast charging so your batt will want a theomistor Mar 02 21:00:25 arossdotme: I see :) so where to best get the device itself? Mar 02 21:01:05 Hm, or probably I should projectgus if he still needs his and buy from him :) Mar 02 21:01:17 but it also means that it can change a big battery like a 6600mah as the chrager outputs 800ma Mar 02 21:02:53 i expect to get a 3days non stop from such a huge batt :) or at least a hole day with wifi won't be a problem :) Mar 02 21:03:08 but yea the best place to get them from is the #zipit irc Mar 02 21:03:16 from hiv and Mar 02 21:03:31 opps i mean hinv Mar 02 21:03:34 and Mar 02 21:05:06 anarsoul i think it was Mar 02 21:05:17 Thank you for the advice. Mar 02 21:05:36 i got mine off evil bay which i regreat Mar 02 21:06:18 i was impation and lost hope that the guy of a forum still had some, i later leant of the 2two pepole on irc that had them Mar 02 21:08:51 PaulFertser: for someone in europ i got a email back form this guy /media/EmcBak4T/Broadchurch.S02E08.720p.HDTV.x264-ORGANiC.mkv Mar 02 21:09:00 opps Mar 02 21:09:20 http://boards.dingoonity.org/other-game-systems/zipit-z2-wireless-messenger/msg40101/#msg40101 Mar 02 21:09:37 you didn't see that file path i opps just posted... shoot Mar 02 21:09:49 dam logs Mar 02 21:10:08 dam pidgin on debian stable being old and wil a buy that i can't see what i'm typing Mar 02 21:10:14 buy=bug Mar 02 21:11:08 is anyone perchance aware of some open-source dumbphone implementation/design? say Cortex+GSM breakout board or something in that style Mar 02 21:12:43 idk Mar 02 21:13:55 coudl the load of the log and do me a big favour and remove a few lines from the log :) Mar 02 21:13:57 I really wish there was something like that with OsmocomBB, but it seems that the only way to get hands on relevant chips is to rip them out of old phones. Mar 02 21:14:29 i guess there might be a de board somewhere Mar 02 21:14:48 laod=Lord Mar 02 21:19:42 de=dev Mar 02 21:50:36 https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/RF/MOD-GSM-EDGE/ looks rather interesting wrt. that. open board design, includes battery & charger Mar 02 22:03:38 with the olimex lime board things will get big and bulky by the time you have conntected things together Mar 02 22:05:09 well, http://www.wmshop.cz/en/Modules-GSM-3G-LTE/?cur=1&lang=1&&redirected=1 Mar 02 22:05:53 if using the lime use a diy felexable cable to access the urat connections , as the little cables to connect to there adaptor break very easily so make a diy one wiht felxy wire, like i did using the olimex urface mount accontors Mar 02 22:06:08 it's not like a modem module would be hard to find Mar 02 22:07:58 also such modem module doesn't mean much regarding "openness" of the "phone" you plan to build Mar 02 22:10:14 DocScrutinizer05: Yeah, I'm afraid the best one can do atm is the neo900 way: isolated single-purpose black box chip you can turn off. Mar 02 22:10:19 there's probably a modem board for every ${ACME}-board DIY MC *berry*-$greekletter and ${animal}board out there Mar 02 22:11:07 (the best) that's why we do it this way, yes Mar 02 22:13:59 getting bulky by using dev boards is rather guaranteed, but it suprised me that with olimex stm32-lcd+mod-gsm-edge you get 80x60mm thingy sans connectors, which is not that bad Mar 02 22:14:01 iirc even gumstix came with one Mar 02 22:14:15 gumstix? Mar 02 22:15:05 gumstix ... meh Mar 02 22:15:56 I'm not sure they had a gsm board Mar 02 22:16:12 I think they did Mar 02 22:18:31 really building a featurephone with a module is neither new nor infeasible. A few months ago they did a 3 day workshop doing exactly that, where every participant went home with his powm selfmade phone after 3 days Mar 02 22:22:05 http://www.fablab-hamburg.org/diy-phone/ Mar 02 22:24:18 s/powm/own/ Mar 02 22:25:10 building a good usable smartphone is another story though Mar 02 22:27:31 heh, nice one Mar 02 22:27:33 as I mentioned above, I'm not really after a smartphone :-) Mar 02 22:39:42 CcxCZ: the only thing not using an Android layer is Tizen. however, the only Tizen phone available so far is locked down, and surely comes with blobs too... Mar 02 22:40:30 you could look for the (very few) devices supported by Replicant -- but probably none of them works 100%; and it's still Android, so porting anything else would be a pain Mar 02 22:49:53 I don't know of any featurephone even worth hacking it Mar 02 22:50:48 android only running on smartphones Mar 02 22:51:00 not on featurephones Mar 02 22:52:38 every modem module is a complete featurephone already, running whatever proprietary OS inside. Only lacking keyboard and display, earpiece, mic, antenan, battery Mar 02 22:53:09 nothing to hack Mar 02 22:54:51 well, checking backscroll I'm puzzled now: [2015-03-02 Mon 20:23:44] is there an affordable smartphone that is sensibly open enough so I could run not-android on it without major regressions? [2015-03-02 Mon 23:27:33] as I mentioned above, I'm not really after a smartphone :-) Mar 02 22:57:04 to answer your initial question: there are several smartphones that already run on something else than android. E:G jolla, all the winphones (Lumia), blackberry, iPhone. Mar 02 22:58:13 android smartphones are all similarly non-open. Some got hacked to run cyanogenmod or replicant or other alternative OS Mar 02 22:59:07 none came with this option as announced product feature Mar 02 23:00:00 except of Neo900 I don't know of *any* phone that offers to run alternative OS on the hardware Mar 02 23:14:48 thanks. I guess I worded that rather badly. I'm indeed looking for a smartphone (or, looking at it as an option), it's just not what I dream of. But one does not usually get that, so yeah. Mar 02 23:16:06 I'd love, say, FOSS&HW feature phone & music player in wristwatch format, but seems I'd have to design one myself :] Mar 03 00:42:07 CcxCZ: there was a hackable pocket computer watch thing. i forget what it was called **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 03 02:59:58 2015