**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 26 03:00:00 2016
Nov 26 03:27:48 <pabs3> https://projects.osmocom.org/news/60
Nov 26 07:24:03 <PaulFertser> "open sources + reproducible builds + signed updates" is better than proprietary indeed. But why should FSF be pleased if it's not free software? I think if we ask those in power there they all will agree. But it's not the point. FSF is promoting free software, the one that gives users power. CopperheadOS doesn't give users more power but it does make them more secure. Good thing. But 
Nov 26 07:24:09 <PaulFertser> unrelated.
Nov 26 07:27:30 <PaulFertser> And FSF logic is clear: "so far we can't really push for free hardware. So free software + closed hardware is ok. So immutable firmware on proprietary hardware is essentially proprietary hardware, so it's out of the scope."
Nov 26 07:28:18 <PaulFertser> I'm sure they'll agree that "open sources + reproducible builds + signed updates" is better than proprietary hardware.
Nov 26 07:28:29 <PaulFertser> But since it's not free software it's out of the scope either. 
Nov 26 07:30:04 <PaulFertser> FSF promotes free software. Let Joanna Rutkowska et al. promote reasonably secure systems.
Nov 26 07:30:11 <PaulFertser> I do not see why sighing.
Nov 26 07:32:17 <PaulFertser> And Copperhead doesn't say anything at all about threats from the baseband processor, they just ignore it.
Nov 26 09:14:03 <antrik> PaulFertser: I'm sighing because of the FUD from these guys
Nov 26 09:17:53 <PaulFertser> antrik: good, so we agree here.
Nov 26 09:19:04 <PaulFertser> I can't answer them as am I not on twitter.
Nov 26 13:43:19 <rah> what firmware are they talking about that has "open source" but isn't free software?
Nov 26 13:43:39 <rah> s/"open source"/"open sources"/
Nov 26 13:43:39 <apt> rah meant: what firmware are they talking about that has "open sources" but isn't free software?
Nov 26 14:15:09 <rah> 14:13 <@strcat> anyway GPL is proprietary, it hinders freedom compared to BSD/MIT
Nov 26 14:15:16 <rah> from #copperhead on OFTC
Nov 26 14:16:27 <rah> those guys have their heads firmly inserted into their respective rectums
Nov 26 14:22:21 <rah> http://settrans.net/~rah/misc/%23copperhead.log.txt
Nov 26 14:25:12 <PaulFertser> rah: I think by "open source" they literally mean that source is available for reading. But one is not legally allowed to use it anyhow.
Nov 26 14:29:37 <rah> PaulFertser: possibly
Nov 26 14:30:53 <PaulFertser> Well, you can also do reproducible build with that to be able to compare with what they offer, then they digitally sign it and only then your device can actually boot it.
Nov 26 14:33:28 <rah> aye
Nov 26 14:34:07 <rah> I couldn't take listening to that guy any more; I'll leave them to it :-)
Nov 26 14:35:05 <misc> the real interesting part is that why he seems to be so annoyed by the fsf position, given this will not impact much (besides marketing of copperhead, I guess)
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