**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 28 03:00:00 2016
Nov 28 04:33:07 <DocScrutinizer05> mickeyl: I guess that guy is trumping
Nov 28 04:34:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ooops, misc: ^^^  I didn't make up that term, it's actually already a 
Nov 28 04:34:35 <DocScrutinizer05> lesson in american theatre schools
Nov 28 04:35:04 <DocScrutinizer05> acting schools?
Nov 28 04:35:15 <DocScrutinizer05> trumpism
Nov 28 04:37:20 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc the main characteristics were: angry and agressive, overly self-esteemed, populist
Nov 28 04:50:09 <DocScrutinizer05> pabs3: thanks!
Nov 28 08:42:22 <mickeyl> grrr. he beat me to it :)
Nov 28 08:42:39 <mickeyl> well, the year is not over yet. will post my own anthology later next month
Nov 28 08:42:56 <pabs3> pls mention it here when you do :)
Nov 28 08:43:16 <mickeyl> will do. now that my IRC bouncer is working again, I plan to lurk for a bit longer ;)
Nov 28 08:43:26 <pabs3> cool :)
Nov 28 08:43:39 * pabs3 surprised this channel lasted so long :)
Nov 28 08:43:49 * mickeyl too
Nov 28 08:43:58 <PaulFertser> s/anthology/obituary/ :(
Nov 28 08:44:21 <mickeyl> *nod*
Nov 28 08:48:41 <PaulFertser> Harald wrote too little about why exactly it all lost traction. AFAICT there was plenty of it, huge interest among experienced developers, custom projects were based off it etc etc.
Nov 28 08:51:04 <PaulFertser> It certainly was not iphone that made people (those who were contributing professionally, not those who were just buying the device) look away.
Nov 28 08:52:43 <mickeyl> yes. perhaps I can make this clearer
Nov 28 08:52:53 * mickeyl makes a mental note
Nov 28 08:53:12 <PaulFertser> It's easy to explain why Openmoko failed in the big market. But I still have absolutely no clue why they failed in their own niche market of tinkerers and custom designs.
Nov 28 08:57:03 <PaulFertser> It's a hot topic nowadays, trying to build a developer community around their cool new IoT boards. I think a talk detailing how to fail that would be welcomed on many conferences.
Nov 28 09:02:52 <PaulFertser> One thing that was clearly lacking IMHO was a better low-level I/O expansion port and other means of embedding. But was it a deal-breaker? I'd guess not. Ancient calypso and slow SoC? Hm, I'd say they were sort of OK back then too. Lack of HW keyboard? In my experience, resistive touch is okish, so not again.
Nov 28 09:03:51 <PaulFertser> Why gta02 wasn't choosen as a platform for some e.g. mobile terminal in commercial settings?
Nov 28 09:07:45 <PaulFertser> Plenty of lessons to be learnt, heh.
Nov 28 09:15:52 <PaulFertser> Switching between middlewares and GUI stacks was an obvious obstacle to mass adoption (among free software supporters) but was it a real problem for professionals? Judging by my own experience it wasn't terribly hard to get it to work for a specific usecase, and that's without any funding. So the software was sort of OK too, useful enough as a basis for building a custom system. 
Nov 28 09:17:20 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: I'm sure you know plenty of inside info regarding business inquiries from many niche players. Learning why and how OM failed to address _those_ demands would be interesting and I guess useful to a very wide audience.
Nov 28 09:32:09 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: yes. thinking about it, I might even have an interview with Sean (if I can get him to it) to get me filled up with some more details
Nov 28 09:35:41 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: tbh, I wouldn't trust his judgements too much (he seems to be a kind of guy who'd be able to rationalise just about everything, his own mistakes included, of course), but for getting some additional facts that would certainly be useful.
Nov 28 09:48:45 <PaulFertser> I have to admit his letters were much more inspiring (for me) than the usual marketing BS.
Nov 28 09:49:48 <PaulFertser> He seems to be really skilled in writing nice letters.
Nov 28 09:54:08 <mickeyl> he is certainly a craftsmen of word :)
Nov 28 19:21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I received complaints why Neo900 wasn't mentioned
Nov 28 19:25:43 <DocScrutinizer05> (OM fail) I guess the *main* reason been the focus on big market, failing to accept that at this time it already was niche rather than mainstream
Nov 28 19:26:23 <DocScrutinizer05> >>we remove WLAN to differentiate from iPhone, since iPhone has WLAN<<  :-/
Nov 28 19:26:54 <DocScrutinizer05> then the VC bailed out eventually and that's been it
Nov 29 00:57:12 <antrik> I don't think there is a single reason why the project failed. for a successful smartphone business, there are like a dozen or so different factors, which *all* have to be covered reasonably well. I believe there were shortcomings in several of them
Nov 29 02:32:12 <DocScrutinizer05> of course
Nov 29 02:36:54 <DocScrutinizer05> as easy as it is to state this on hindsight - at that time it probably was already impossible to cover all factors implied by the targeted customer group aka market. 
Nov 29 02:41:01 <DocScrutinizer05> PaulFertser: the dealbreaker for GTA02 was the buzz issue
Nov 29 02:42:07 <DocScrutinizer05> and for sure also the ID
Nov 29 02:43:36 <pabs3> ID?
Nov 29 02:44:37 <DocScrutinizer05> industrial design
Nov 29 02:45:01 <pabs3> ah, the screen inset for eg?
Nov 29 02:45:25 <DocScrutinizer05> for example. the complete case and form factor and all
Nov 29 02:46:25 * pabs3 wonders if any clamshell smartphones exist
Nov 29 02:46:34 <DocScrutinizer05> not afaik
Nov 29 02:48:14 * pabs3 finds http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_w999-4660.php
Nov 29 02:48:45 <pabs3> and http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Samsung-Galaxy-Golden_id8563
Nov 29 02:50:28 <DocScrutinizer05> HAH! dual screen
Nov 29 02:52:28 <pabs3> I suppose the Pyra counts too :)
Nov 29 02:52:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hardly
Nov 29 02:53:41 <DocScrutinizer05> pyra not even claims to be a smartphone, or a phone at all. And in fact it isn't, just as much as an arbitrary tablet with LTE or UMTS isn't a phone
Nov 29 02:55:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I've been not involved deeply enough into Pyra design / EE to judge, but I doubt it been designed with standby time being any top priority
Nov 29 02:55:31 <DocScrutinizer05> the Pyra clearly is a device designed to be either active or shut down
Nov 29 02:57:18 <DocScrutinizer05> sure it has suspend2ram and suspend2disk, and it probbaly even has a lot of zeroclock technology, but still I'm not sure this was a uniquitous madatory and important design goal to have minimal standby power consumption
Nov 29 02:57:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ubiquitous*
Nov 29 02:59:26 <DocScrutinizer05> the gta02 (/04) approach to suspend2ram and resume on inbound calls simply is not sustainable
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 29 03:00:00 2016