**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 28 03:00:02 2017 Jan 28 23:32:55 antrik: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html >>If you build any kind of embedded device, a server system, or even user systems, you frequently do your work based on complete system images, that are linearly versioned. You build these images somewhere, and then you replicate them atomically to a larger number of systems. On these systems, you don't install or remove packages, you get a Jan 28 23:32:57 defined set of files, and besides installing or updating the system there are no ways how to change the set of tools you get.<< Jan 28 23:33:16 **THIS** is what systemd cabal is all about Jan 28 23:35:27 hijack, take over, and transform FOSS linux into something *the community* has no saying anymore Jan 28 23:46:21 antrik: so yes, in my book (and the notion of *many* others as well, most of them highly qualified to judge) systemd IS EXACTLY a nasty sneaky business tactics plan of RH to "take over dominion in linux" Jan 28 23:46:57 s/systemd/systemd cabal activity at large/ Jan 28 23:46:57 DocScrutinizer05 meant: antrik: so yes, in my book (and the notion of *many* others as well, most of them highly qualified to judge) systemd cabal activity at large IS EXACTLY a nasty sneaky business tactics plan of RH to "take over dominion in linux" Jan 29 00:06:34 I can't help but continue _just_ quoting that crap: >>The current Linux distributions are not particularly good at providing for this major use-case of Linux. Their strict focus on individual packages as well as package managers as end-user install and update tool is incompatible with ***what many system vendors want***.<< Jan 29 00:08:02 the focus on commercialization and monetizing linux at large couldn't be more glaring Jan 29 00:11:27 >>The classic Linux distribution scheme is frequently not what end users want, either. Many users are used to app markets like Android, Windows or iOS/Mac have. Markets are a platform that doesn't package, build or maintain software like distributions do, but simply allows users to quickly find and download the software they need, with the app vendor responsible for keeping the app updated, secured, and all that on the vendor's Jan 29 00:11:29 release cycle.<< Jan 29 00:12:51 UTTER BULLSHIT! when I want that, I get me those OS -- NOT linux! Jan 29 00:14:47 and systemd is the trojan horse to introduce so many inter-app and middleware dependencies that in the end there simply remains no other way that just the monolithic OS image update they call their ideal future linux architecture Jan 29 00:15:18 no other way than* Jan 29 00:20:57 one faint hope I keep: the *devels* to implement that shit for sure wil _not_ want to install a system "RedHat development linux -- now with gcc" and click-install a few more tools from a appstore Jan 29 00:22:22 mind you, I been there seen all that, with Nokia Harmattan (aka maemo6) which was designed with similar goals in mind Jan 29 00:22:45 ~aegis Jan 29 00:22:45 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Jan 29 00:24:47 call me a tinfoil hat but I think there's a really strong movement in whole industry to turn everything from a "buy it, own it" into something that's basically a leasing system where you never really own the hardware and software you pay for Jan 29 00:28:41 FOSS and here particularly GNU/linux traditionally was the counter approach to that. Now TH and many others try to assimilate linux into their top-down commercial approach and monetize it - after all it's FOR free Jan 29 00:29:46 Tivo started(?) it, the first and largest scale take over was android. Now they target core linux Jan 29 00:29:56 ~tivoization Jan 29 00:30:08 duh! Jan 29 00:30:13 ~wiki tivoization Jan 29 00:30:17 At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Tivoization' {{IPAc-en|ˈ|t|iː|v|oʊ|ᵻ|ˌ|z|eɪ|ʃ|ən}} is the creation of a system that incorporates software under the terms of a copyleft software license (like the GPL), but uses hardware restrictions to prevent users from running modified versions of the software on that hardware. Richard Stallman coined the term in reference to TiVo's use of GNU GPL licensed software on ... Jan 29 00:30:54 systemd is software tivoization Jan 29 00:33:53 "android is linux" they always keep telling me. So when the systemd cabal is so keen to get all the shiny crap the android OS and eco system 'offers', WHY THE HELL they mess with linux instead of improving android to their liking? -- of course because android is already owned by google, while til now linux is owned by community and thus available to hostile takeovers Jan 29 00:35:19 there are Android distros that use systemd btw: https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/my-watch-runs-gnu-linux-and-it-is-amazing/ https://asteroidos.org/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 29 03:00:00 2017