**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 06 02:59:57 2006
Dec 06 09:24:42 <CM> Someone (Sean?) should mail the author of this article and tell him about OpenMoko: http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2006/12/05/mobile_linux_ecosystem/print.html
Dec 06 09:26:34 <koen> Is sean the only one with a emailer?
Dec 06 09:27:54 <mickeyl> CM: just go ahead and tell him please
Dec 06 09:28:00 <mickeyl> (the author, not Sean)
Dec 06 09:28:05 <CM> Ok, np
Dec 06 09:28:11 <mickeyl> thanks for noticing, btw.
Dec 06 09:28:24 <CM> Just not sure what I should say or not, since I don't feel like I know all details
Dec 06 09:29:20 <mickeyl> neither do we ;)
Dec 06 09:29:30 <mickeyl> just point him to the OpenMoko initiative 
Dec 06 09:29:34 <CM> Hehe.. I'm writing a mail now
Dec 06 09:29:43 <mickeyl> the press release and the presentation should give him a clue
Dec 06 09:37:07 * CM sent this to Rob: http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/om.txt
Dec 06 09:37:18 * CM gets back to work
Dec 06 09:45:21 <mickeyl> work is overrated ;)
Dec 06 09:45:34 <mickeyl> good mail btw., thanks
Dec 06 09:52:11 <CM> mickeyl: Thanks. I do my best to spread some OpenMoko awareness. I think it's a great initiative :)
Dec 06 09:52:40 <mickeyl> thank you. it really is. I'm all excited and not just because I'm paid to work on it
Dec 06 09:52:53 <mickeyl> I would even do the same unpaid if I had time ;)
Dec 06 09:52:58 <mickeyl> but ssssh... don't tell FIC :D
Dec 06 09:53:11 <CM> Hehe.. 
Dec 06 09:53:29 <CM> I just hope it will be some easy devkit availible later on
Dec 06 09:53:44 <mickeyl> definetly.
Dec 06 09:53:50 <mickeyl> i'm all ears to make it supersupereasy for devels
Dec 06 09:54:03 <mickeyl> just a matter of time
Dec 06 09:54:18 <CM> great! I'll be happy to test some beta stuff :)
Dec 06 09:54:39 <CM> Any plans for some kind of emulator?
Dec 06 09:54:48 <mickeyl> yep. two fold
Dec 06 09:55:01 <mickeyl> one way is going the x86 route and using Xoo/Xeypher
Dec 06 09:55:06 <mickeyl> other way is testing via qemuarm
Dec 06 09:57:19 <CM> Sounds good, can't wait to get something to play with
Dec 06 10:01:58 <CM> Here's another guy that will get an OpenMoko-awareness mail: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/71
Dec 06 10:02:44 <mickeyl> yeah
Dec 06 10:03:32 * CM posts a comment
Dec 06 13:32:48 <LaF0rge> re
Dec 06 13:33:14 <hrw|work> hi LaF0rge 
Dec 06 14:56:52 <noidd> wb
Dec 06 14:59:27 <mickeyl> thanks
Dec 06 14:59:33 <mickeyl> went out to city with my mum
Dec 06 14:59:40 <mickeyl> got a bag full of presents
Dec 06 14:59:41 <noidd> how was it?
Dec 06 14:59:41 <mickeyl> :D
Dec 06 14:59:45 <noidd> haha, cool
Dec 06 14:59:51 <noidd> See, my wife hates buying presents for me
Dec 06 15:00:00 <mickeyl> hehe, sounds familiar to me :)
Dec 06 15:00:07 <noidd> she says "You're really hard to buy for unless you have several thousand dollars"
Dec 06 15:00:20 <mickeyl> she has a point there though hasn't she? :)
Dec 06 15:00:24 <noidd> she can name 10 things I want but they're all devices
Dec 06 15:00:25 <noidd> heh
Dec 06 15:00:39 <noidd> Don't buy me software, 'k thx.
Dec 06 15:00:59 * koen is happy with his new toys
Dec 06 15:00:59 <mickeyl> i got a new leather business bag with a cool laptop compartment, a sports bag and a new squash racket.
Dec 06 15:11:19 <noidd> what new toys you got?
Dec 06 15:13:36 <koen> a fisheye lens and an efika
Dec 06 15:25:17 <noidd> nice
Dec 06 15:28:25 <hrw|work> none
Dec 06 15:42:53 <robtaylor> mickeyl: i missed teh comment a while back, but yes, i do know DCE ;)
Dec 06 15:43:04 <mickeyl> hehe
Dec 06 15:43:12 <noidd> ewww
Dec 06 15:43:18 <robtaylor> mickeyl: it still has the threading issues corba has
Dec 06 15:43:22 <robtaylor> *ick*
Dec 06 15:43:41 <noidd> I stopped using DCE when IBM removed it from AIX and required it to be an additional licence purchase
Dec 06 15:43:48 <noidd> I've i've not missed it since :-P
Dec 06 15:44:27 <noidd> is there even a DCE implementation for Linux?
Dec 06 15:45:52 <noidd> http://linas.org/linux/corba.html ## Huh, interesting.
Dec 06 15:46:06 <robtaylor> noidd: openDCE, iirc
Dec 06 15:46:28 <robtaylor> awful unavigable webpage though
Dec 06 15:46:43 <noidd> http://freedce.sourceforge.net/
Dec 06 15:46:46 <noidd> too
Dec 06 15:47:56 <robtaylor> anyhow, the mian thing that needs doing for dbus atm is to make the glib bindings usable and sane
Dec 06 15:48:28 <robtaylor> i'm hoping to get some time later this month to have a look at doing some work on that
Dec 06 15:48:29 <noidd> dbus is the defined ipc/rpc mechanism for oe?
Dec 06 15:49:10 <robtaylor> i don;t think OE defines anything like that ;)
Dec 06 15:49:29 <robtaylor> noidd: but it is getting to be the one for GPE, i guess
Dec 06 15:49:59 <noidd> why not ORBit?
Dec 06 15:50:07 <noidd> since that's the "standard" for gnome
Dec 06 15:50:21 <robtaylor> noidd: no, GNOME is dropping bonobo 
Dec 06 15:50:30 <noidd> oh really, didn't know that.
Dec 06 15:50:38 <robtaylor> and everythings moving to dbus, slowly but surely
Dec 06 15:50:48 <noidd> I should do some reading.
Dec 06 15:51:14 <robtaylor> the whole bonobo stack was just too damn thorny to use, so it just didn't get used much
Dec 06 15:51:20 <noidd> "I am proud to announce the release of D-Bus 0.92, the \u201cHanging By A Thread\u201d release."  ## Pun-tastic.
Dec 06 15:51:34 <noidd> I've been out of the Gnome world for a long time.  
Dec 06 15:51:35 <robtaylor> usual corba problems ;)
Dec 06 15:51:36 <robtaylor> heh
Dec 06 15:52:06 <robtaylor> dbus is now at 1.01, btw
Dec 06 15:52:24 <noidd> I'm browsing dbus.freedesktop.org
Dec 06 15:52:30 <noidd> looks like I have some catching up to do.
Dec 06 15:52:35 <robtaylor> cool :)
Dec 06 15:53:09 <robtaylor> the java,c# and qt bindings are all nice
Dec 06 15:53:21 <robtaylor> and the python ones, when 0.80 gets finished
Dec 06 15:53:30 <koen> openmoko doesn't use any of those
Dec 06 15:53:49 <robtaylor> koen: yeah. i hope itgets java at somepoint though :)
Dec 06 15:54:04 <koen> java, schmava
Dec 06 15:54:05 <noidd> perl bindings are for dbus v0.34 
Dec 06 15:54:08 <robtaylor> esp as using Jazelle is stupidly easy to hack in :)
Dec 06 15:54:09 <noidd> bwahaha
Dec 06 15:54:26 <koen> robtaylor: arm920t lacks jazelle :)
Dec 06 15:54:32 <robtaylor> noidd: no, the per bindings versio is 0.34, it works with current release
Dec 06 15:54:36 <robtaylor> koen: aww, suxor
Dec 06 15:55:06 * robtaylor see t b loosin character
Dec 06 15:55:07 <koen> I wonder if that sun dude comes through with bitbake recipes for java
Dec 06 15:55:35 <robtaylor> that'd be nice
Dec 06 15:56:12 * koen looks at sun-cvm_1.01-r1_arm.ipk
Dec 06 15:56:19 <koen> not allowed to share, thanks to sun
Dec 06 15:57:02 <robtaylor> ?
Dec 06 15:57:22 <koen> that's a build of the sucky licensed cvm
Dec 06 21:13:00 <Daft> I just saw the website and presentation stuff. looks nice but.. why no wifi?
Dec 06 21:18:14 <stefan_schmidt> Daft: no wifi in the first generation. It's a question of vendors allowing to gpl their wifi driver...
Dec 06 21:18:32 <buz> http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9270308590.html <- developping on the greenphone, and some more rambling about how it0s not ready for use
Dec 06 21:18:50 <buz> "My suggestion is this: Run a contest. That's exactly what VMWare did when they released the VMWare player, and now they have several hundred "virtual appliances" on their web site. Give a nice cash prize for the best application, and a phone each to the top runners up."
Dec 06 21:18:56 <buz> this should work for openmoko as well
Dec 06 21:19:05 <buz> (then again, the phone is half the price of the greenphone)
Dec 06 21:20:28 <buz> i like the idea of having a vmware image you can instantly develop in
Dec 06 21:20:42 <stefan_schmidt> buz: Contest sounds good, but hacker discount sounds better. :)
Dec 06 21:20:51 <buz> well, yes
Dec 06 21:20:58 <buz> but how do you judge who is a hacker in advance?
Dec 06 21:21:13 <stefan_schmidt> good question, don't know
Dec 06 21:21:16 <thedaniel> buz: you ask them to show you what OSS projs they've worked on in the past
Dec 06 21:21:30 <buz> oh i have worked on some 
Dec 06 21:21:41 <buz> still i wouldnot be able to hack much on gtk stuff
Dec 06 21:22:16 <buz> and as they say for mutual funds: "past performance is not indicative of future performance" ;)
Dec 06 21:22:18 <thedaniel> buz: that's the key - if someone has contributed to or maintained a project that dealt with tools / technologies similar or related to openmoko, you figure they can probably do something cool with openmoko
Dec 06 21:22:47 <thedaniel> if they just have general programming skills, they are on the second tier for the hacker discount (in my imaginary world wher ei control the proj anyway)
Dec 06 21:23:26 <buz> well one could give discounts for version n based on the past releases
Dec 06 21:24:06 <stefan_schmidt> buz: They need much hacker on the first version to get it going.
Dec 06 21:24:19 <buz> sure
Dec 06 21:24:27 <buz> they'd have an easier time with wifi ;)
Dec 06 21:24:36 <buz> but still interest
Dec 06 21:24:38 <buz> is tremendous
Dec 06 21:25:02 <buz> adn compared to say an ipod it's not even expensive
Dec 06 21:25:40 <koen> I do get the feeling that a lot of people on the mailinglist want a dev board instead of a phone
Dec 06 21:25:45 <buz> yes
Dec 06 21:25:50 <buz> the FPGA crowd for sure
Dec 06 21:25:52 <koen> fpga! wifi! usb3! agp!
Dec 06 21:26:08 <koen> speaking of dev boards...
Dec 06 21:26:09 <buz> well i do see the point wrt to wifi and usb2
Dec 06 21:26:13 <buz> less so for FPGA
Dec 06 21:26:17 <koen> I should dismantle my a780 soon
Dec 06 21:26:36 <buz> that rokr e6 looks neat
Dec 06 21:26:45 <koen> and fpga would either be too small or draw too much power
Dec 06 21:26:55 <buz> as does software radio
Dec 06 21:27:03 <buz> i rather get a cam or wifi than fpga
Dec 06 21:27:19 <buz> maybe there should be a pcmcia sled of some sort
Dec 06 21:27:28 <buz> then people could stick all kinds of weird stuff onto it
Dec 06 21:27:41 <koen> people that want software radio should get a USRP
Dec 06 21:28:01 <buz> i think many of them simply think software is easy to change so it's gotta be neat
Dec 06 21:28:36 * stefan_schmidt would like to the simple DECT on it.
Dec 06 21:28:39 <buz> but integrating a fpga in any flexible way will be nearly impossible
Dec 06 21:28:51 <koen> "And, its touchscreen dial-pad suggests the E6 was designed for the Chinese market, where technical flash is valued. In contrast, U.S. and European customers value the convenience of hardware phone buttons."
Dec 06 21:28:54 <buz> gimme wifi over dect any day
Dec 06 21:29:01 <stefan_schmidt> koen: Dismantle A780 would be nice. We still need pictures of the PCB. :)
Dec 06 21:29:03 <koen> gimme bluetooth over dect anyday
Dec 06 21:29:25 <buz> i already use hardware voip 
Dec 06 21:29:34 <buz> if i could run it on my phone even better
Dec 06 21:30:10 <buz> as for dect, that's just obsolete technology leading to even more interference
Dec 06 21:30:23 <stefan_schmidt> koen: Of course bt has hiogher prio, but I still like DECT in it.
Dec 06 21:30:52 <stefan_schmidt> buz: DECT is not dead. Just working instead of VoIP.
Dec 06 21:31:01 <buz> my voip works just fine
Dec 06 21:31:18 <koen> there's still a scary amount of dect hw in use
Dec 06 21:31:29 <buz> yeah i have a dect phone around here too
Dec 06 21:31:36 <buz> but only because wifi phones suck and are way too expensive
Dec 06 21:31:43 <stefan_schmidt> buz: Home network or network with 100+ APs and 1000+ pc's?
Dec 06 21:31:54 <buz> home network
Dec 06 21:32:07 <stefan_schmidt> buz: OK, that should work.
Dec 06 21:32:09 <buz> but afaik, eth zurich has a voip setup with over 20K users
Dec 06 21:32:16 <buz> every student gets a number
Dec 06 21:32:39 <buz> spread over two campuses and a lot of off campus pkaces
Dec 06 21:32:56 <stefan_schmidt> buz: Hmm, perhaps our NOC should contact them. :)
Dec 06 21:33:00 <koen> stefan_schmidt: btw, I used eduroam last weekend
Dec 06 21:33:13 <koen> stefan_schmidt: I could use the credentials from my uni
Dec 06 21:33:35 <buz> http://www.polyphone.ethz.ch/
Dec 06 21:33:47 <stefan_schmidt> koen: Ah, nice. We still have no working setup for it. *sigh*
Dec 06 21:33:50 <stefan_schmidt> buz: Thanks
Dec 06 21:34:11 <koen> it was pretty neat, I didn't have to use the conference wifi :)
Dec 06 21:34:15 <buz> currently 2000 users
Dec 06 21:34:25 * xorAxAx has voip and dect :)
Dec 06 21:34:29 <buz> but the idea is to scale it to whatever number wants to use it
Dec 06 21:34:29 <xorAxAx> fritzbox does voip for me
Dec 06 21:34:36 <xorAxAx> cheap and easily available
Dec 06 21:34:38 <buz> linksys PAP2 for me
Dec 06 21:34:59 <buz> saves us 30? each month
Dec 06 21:35:18 <buz> and cost 60? once ;)
Dec 06 21:35:21 <xorAxAx> oh, chatty wife? :)
Dec 06 21:35:38 <buz> actually, that's just for the baseline lines
Dec 06 21:36:09 <xorAxAx> ah, here, you need to buy a phone line if you want internet
Dec 06 21:36:09 <buz> swisscom fixnet charges 25 CHF per analog line
Dec 06 21:36:20 <buz> here it's either that or cable
Dec 06 21:36:33 <xorAxAx> cable is not widely available in .de
Dec 06 21:36:42 <buz> yeah well DSL is cheap in .de
Dec 06 21:36:54 <buz> our 5mbit cable is nearly 50?
Dec 06 21:38:47 <xorAxAx> EUR?
Dec 06 21:40:05 <buz> yes
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 07 02:59:57 2006