**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 15 02:59:58 2007
Jan 15 05:54:39 <rlozier> any guarantees the phone wont be delayed past feb?
Jan 15 06:02:10 <aloril> I don't there are any guarantees, but I except it to be available then myself (I'm not associated with FIC any way, just guessing)
Jan 15 06:02:30 <aloril> s/ there/ think there/
Jan 15 06:02:30 <apt> aloril meant: I don't think there are any guarantees, but I except it to be available then myself (I'm not associated with FIC any way, just guessing)
Jan 15 06:06:55 <aloril> based on talk on this channel I think one reason for it being delayed is that they wanted bluetooth (again partially guessing)
Jan 15 06:09:20 <Matt_H> they needed some sort of networking 
Jan 15 06:16:26 <aloril> there is frequent argument about "iPhone can't have 3rd party apps because that would lead to frequent crashed"
Jan 15 06:16:40 <aloril> well.. is OS running on iPhone that fragile? ;-)
Jan 15 06:17:21 <aloril> at least Neo1973 has robust OS so I don't think is any good argument
Jan 15 06:18:28 <cbpage> all the signals are produced by the gsm radio which is running in a seperate processor
Jan 15 06:58:43 <Matt_H> the iFaithful will be the only ones buying the iPhone 
Jan 15 06:58:50 <Matt_H> suckers
Jan 15 06:59:43 <Matt_H> now DRM is dying Steve had to come up another way to lock them into the platform ...
Jan 15 07:04:23 <xkr47> Matt_H, like these maybe ?-) http://cache.consumerist.com/assets/resources/2007/01/iphoneinabox.jpg
Jan 15 07:04:55 <Matt_H> wankers
Jan 15 07:07:16 <Matt_H> daddy will have to buy those kids hat phone 
Jan 15 07:11:58 <xkr47> "can I, please daddy? all my wanker friends have one!"
Jan 15 07:13:56 <Matt_H> the ipod is a fad now iPod users are waking up to the fact they got locked into itunes they are like whoa
Jan 15 07:16:30 <Tv> whose locked into itunes? I'm happy with mp3s on my ipod nano
Jan 15 07:16:39 <Tv> who's
Jan 15 07:17:08 <Matt_H> and in most countires you break copyright laws to get those mp3s 
Jan 15 07:17:21 <Matt_H> including format shifting 
Jan 15 07:17:41 <Tv> I can do anything with data I own in finland..
Jan 15 07:17:42 <thedaniel>  Tv - you put mp3s on Nano? Does she complain?
Jan 15 07:17:49 <Tv> thedaniel: ha-ha
Jan 15 07:18:02 <Tv> thedaniel: I can imagine the doggie saddle bag with an ipod pocket
Jan 15 07:18:24 <thedaniel> and the other one can cart around speakers
Jan 15 07:18:48 <Matt_H> the RIAA still contends format shifting is agaist the law 
Jan 15 07:18:59 <Tv> they don't set the law over here..
Jan 15 07:19:11 <Tv> also, RIAA doesn't do anything directly here.
Jan 15 07:22:06 <benJIman> "Sean Moss-Pultz, the project's architect, expects the first samples of OpenMoko hardware to ship in March 2007." March now :(
Jan 15 07:22:17 <Tv> jan always was a pre-release
Jan 15 07:22:22 <Tv> small group of hackers
Jan 15 07:22:23 <Tv> but yeah
Jan 15 07:22:31 <cbpage> at announcement that was dec.
Jan 15 07:22:32 <cbpage> :P
Jan 15 07:22:37 <Tv> hah
Jan 15 07:22:44 <benJIman> Tv: yes but recently said febuary, now march
Jan 15 07:23:01 <Tv> "Sean Moss-Pultz, the project's architect, hopes the first samples of OpenMoko hardware to ship." ;)
Jan 15 07:23:22 <thedaniel> "Sean Moss-Pultz...hopes."
Jan 15 07:23:53 <buz> so they got two months time to add wifi and a v8
Jan 15 07:23:54 <buz> gooood
Jan 15 07:24:19 <benJIman> what's v8?
Jan 15 07:24:25 <thedaniel> a big car engine
Jan 15 07:31:51 <m1uvVZHVd> hi matt
Jan 15 07:32:06 <Matt_H> damn firefox 
Jan 15 07:32:28 <m1uvVZHVd> Hmm.. ok
Jan 15 07:33:00 <xkr47> Tv, are you ordering a moko too? or was I speaking to you about it already..
Jan 15 07:33:12 <xkr47> Tv, at least I spoke with some finn about sharing the shipping costs..
Jan 15 07:33:13 <Tv> I want one.
Jan 15 07:33:16 <m1uvVZHVd> I can't wait for this phone to be avail! It is such an obvious step in the right direction, yet noone has done it yet!
Jan 15 07:33:19 <Tv> xkr47: that'd be mjr, probably
Jan 15 07:33:23 <xkr47> ok yeah
Jan 15 07:33:26 <Tv> xkr47: I might be in the US when it ships
Jan 15 07:33:30 <xkr47> ah
Jan 15 07:33:39 * Tv waves at thedaniel
Jan 15 07:34:16 <thedaniel> Tv: we'll get a crate of them shipped to the office
Jan 15 07:34:30 <thedaniel> and expense the hell out of it
Jan 15 07:34:49 <m1uvVZHVd> how much are these?
Jan 15 07:35:26 <xkr47> buz, so they're not putting a V12 anymore ?-D
Jan 15 07:35:42 <buz> we might get a turbo 
Jan 15 07:37:38 <xkr47> sorry, no V8, but the current plan is you get this external diesel engine instead
Jan 15 07:38:00 <Tv> WILL IT NEED USB POWER???!!!oneoneone
Jan 15 07:42:26 <Matt_H> This iPhone publicity can only be good for openmoko and the neo
Jan 15 07:42:58 <thedaniel> This iPhone being massive crippleware can only be good for the neo
Jan 15 07:43:25 <Matt_H> that also 
Jan 15 07:56:26 <cying> i should remind folks that
Jan 15 07:56:33 <cying> iphone still has a full blown web browser
Jan 15 07:56:39 <cying> and will probably support dashboard widgets
Jan 15 07:56:55 <cying> so as far as web apps go, iphone will still have a bunch of 3rd party web apps
Jan 15 07:57:09 <Matt_H> well you can only do so much with javascript
Jan 15 07:57:24 * cying ducks from the onslaught of pending doom.
Jan 15 07:57:37 <Matt_H> its still an outward looking device 
Jan 15 07:57:39 <cying> true, but you can still do a lot
Jan 15 08:00:14 <Matt_H> theres some great features the ipod could have if it had wi-fi 
Jan 15 08:00:50 <Matt_H> word on the street is that the next ipod might have wi-fi and be touchscreen 
Jan 15 08:01:15 * xkr47 wants a doom screensaver in his moko
Jan 15 08:01:21 <xkr47> just for show-off :)
Jan 15 08:01:59 <Matt_H> wants doom on his moko
Jan 15 08:02:29 <iiz> is openmoko only going to be available for the Neo1973 or any smartphone ?
Jan 15 08:02:32 <thedaniel> well Matt_H - if i can play doom on my windows mobile phone i'm sure you can play it on the moko
Jan 15 08:03:17 <Tv> iiz: it'll work on Neo1973, you can make it work anywhere.
Jan 15 08:06:07 <aloril> benJIman: where did you get that March comment?
Jan 15 08:06:09 <Matt_H> shame the video specs are low on the Neo ARM
Jan 15 08:37:35 <freeeak> hi
Jan 15 08:37:57 <freeeak> oh i see Eta changed to february
Jan 15 08:43:07 <greentux> 2 weeks ago...
Jan 15 09:11:18 <Stephmw> oh dear... openmoko hits TheRegister
Jan 15 10:13:40 <glommer> under which license is your framework released? 
Jan 15 10:14:36 <benJIman> freeeak: march according to el reg
Jan 15 10:15:42 <freeeak> what?
Jan 15 10:16:08 <freeeak> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/01/15/open_phone/
Jan 15 10:16:17 <benJIman> "< freeeak> oh i see Eta changed to february"
Jan 15 10:16:42 <freeeak> there they say march 2007
Jan 15 10:16:53 <benJIman> That's what I said.
Jan 15 10:16:57 <freeeak> ok
Jan 15 10:17:05 <freeeak> ty
Jan 15 10:18:21 * koen believes statements from FIC more that the reg
Jan 15 10:20:13 <Stephmw> mickey|berlin: hiya mickey
Jan 15 10:20:17 <mickey|berlin> morning guys
Jan 15 10:20:23 <koen> hey mickey|berlin 
Jan 15 10:20:33 <hrw|work> hi here mickey|berlin 
Jan 15 10:50:50 <koen> mickey|berlin: any new and exciting news?
Jan 15 10:57:28 <mickey|berlin> I'd say "soon", but then I'd sound like ljp :D
Jan 15 10:57:41 <mickey|berlin> seriously, there will be an announcement tomorrow or so
Jan 15 10:57:58 <mickey|berlin> giving more details about the time plan for this year
Jan 15 10:58:36 <koen> sean was happy with the new and improved(TM) touchscreen?
Jan 15 10:59:12 <Stephmw> mickey|berlin: :)
Jan 15 11:00:12 <mickey|berlin> very :)
Jan 15 11:00:39 <hrw|work> koen: the one which finally work?
Jan 15 11:02:11 <mickey|berlin> yeah, that one
Jan 15 11:02:25 <mickey|berlin> now we finally can enjoy the slowness of Gtk+/X11
Jan 15 11:02:28 <mickey|berlin> cough
Jan 15 11:03:38 <mickey|berlin> when I'm back I will create an OpenMoko image for my SL6000 and do some tests there as well
Jan 15 11:03:53 <mickey|berlin> VGA portrait, so no need to touch anything
Jan 15 11:16:44 <hrw|work> http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/13/nbc-and-npr-feature-iphone-humor/
Jan 15 11:38:00 <marcellus> No activity on the mailing list the last two days?
Jan 15 11:48:31 <mickey|berlin> dunno. will ping the server master in a couple of minutes
Jan 15 11:57:49 <seaLne> i tried to subscribe on saturday and never received anything back from mailman
Jan 15 12:02:49 <mickey|berlin> yeah, we run out of file descriptors on the box
Jan 15 12:02:51 <mickey|berlin> fixing it atm.
Jan 15 12:13:32 <seaLne> thanks got my confirm subscribe now
Jan 15 13:10:14 <koen> wtfh?
Jan 15 13:10:14 <koen> http://tweakers.net/nieuws/45921/Eerste-samples-open-Linux-telefoon-in-maart-verwacht.html
Jan 15 13:10:23 <koen> it even caught the news in .nl
Jan 15 13:11:54 <mickey|berlin> heh
Jan 15 13:12:11 <manos> hi, does it run java and is any dev pricing estimation available?
Jan 15 13:12:38 <koen> "it will take a while till the fanatics port helix, banshee, mplayer and maybe the gimp"
Jan 15 13:12:42 <Stephmw> manos: no Java unless you join the hopefuls and help put it on there
Jan 15 13:13:02 <Stephmw> koen: no way it'll do the gimp without the V12
Jan 15 13:13:54 <manos> stephmw: i believe the micro edition for v6 went OS by sun last month or so 
Jan 15 13:14:05 <koen> Stephmw: one of the gimp developers said the gimp is so slow on 'embedded' hardware because it keeps all layers in memory 2 or 3 times
Jan 15 13:14:22 <koen> Stephmw: so maybe with the 128MB we only need a v8 :)
Jan 15 13:14:30 <manos> stephmw: but i'd fall too short in making this work on the device i believe
Jan 15 13:15:27 <Stephmw> manos: the work needed will likely be integration at the LCDUI peer level, it's not insurmountable, but it's also not something that'll be done quickly
Jan 15 13:15:38 <Stephmw> manos: Java devs seem to be in the minority atm :)
Jan 15 13:16:04 <Stephmw> koen: bah, there's so much the gimp can do without layers... let's remove them
Jan 15 13:16:06 <koen> Stephmw: vocal, but lazy ;)
Jan 15 13:16:25 <Stephmw> koen: it's easy to me lazy without SDKs
Jan 15 13:16:35 <koen> :)
Jan 15 13:16:39 <Stephmw> my particular problem is actually apathy
Jan 15 13:16:51 <Stephmw> I do too much coding at work and CBA to do any in my free time atm
Jan 15 13:17:25 <manos> stephmw: wil the SDK include some kind of emulator or will i have to wait for the actual HW?
Jan 15 13:17:43 <koen> I was not getting at you, but all the other people shouting "java!" and going quiet when being pointed to doing some work
Jan 15 13:17:45 <leventhal> i can live without java if it does python
Jan 15 13:18:01 <Stephmw> koen: oh, I realise - I just have a go at myself
Jan 15 13:18:52 <manos> keon: most java devs are not really the type of folk that make linux distros :-/
Jan 15 13:21:46 <Stephmw> manos: are you looking to do development, or just as a user?
Jan 15 13:21:53 <Tv> I hate all the java apps on my symbian..
Jan 15 13:21:57 <Tv> give me native over java any day
Jan 15 13:22:03 <Tv> it's frigging open source, we can recompile
Jan 15 13:22:12 <manos> keon: dev, but on app level, not the OS
Jan 15 13:22:13 <Stephmw> Tv: I hate all native apps on my symbian... give me Java any day :)
Jan 15 13:22:28 <benJIman> Tv: java can be faster
Jan 15 13:22:31 <leventhal> Sun opensourced the libraries not the VM i thought
Jan 15 13:22:34 <manos> s/koen/stephmw/
Jan 15 13:22:45 <benJIman> leventhal: the me jvm is open now, and the other will be soon
Jan 15 13:22:54 <leventhal> oh.. sweet
Jan 15 13:23:04 <Stephmw> manos: feel free to hang around #classpath as well then :)
Jan 15 13:23:13 <Stephmw> manos: app devs are always welcome
Jan 15 13:23:50 <Stephmw> manos: we always need more victims^W testers^W fellow java devs :)
Jan 15 13:24:03 <manos> stephmw: LOL
Jan 15 13:24:18 <leventhal> heh
Jan 15 13:27:02 <manos> any idea on the device retail cost? also, will direct be the only channel?
Jan 15 13:37:40 <koen> Stephmw: would jamvm+classpath make you happy?
Jan 15 13:38:35 <Stephmw> koen: not when there's a VM+JIT coming soon
Jan 15 13:39:00 <koen> Stephmw: I wouldn't want anything but gcj-x
Jan 15 13:39:09 <koen> which now works on ARM
Jan 15 13:39:28 <Stephmw> you absolutely want it natively compiled?
Jan 15 13:39:38 <koen> why not?
Jan 15 13:40:18 <koen> it's not like you can drop in a jar and expect it to work, you need some gui wrapper
Jan 15 13:40:35 <koen> and when you are doing a wrapper for the neo, why not skip bytecode and go native
Jan 15 13:41:33 <Stephmw> the whole point is to get a J2ME VM... and those accept dropped-in jars :)
Jan 15 13:41:47 <benJIman> koen: because native would be slower probably
Jan 15 13:42:05 * Stephmw tickles benJIman 
Jan 15 13:42:17 <koen> someone drank the kool-aid
Jan 15 13:42:18 <Stephmw> benJIman: no stiring - we've done well without language wars so far :)
Jan 15 13:42:29 <manos> j2me is the way to go, we poor devs just want stuff like midlets to work when we drop them in
Jan 15 13:42:53 <manos> with a normal VM what would our GUI options be?
Jan 15 13:43:55 <benJIman> Stephmw: Not stirring, but with a VM it will generally perform better
Jan 15 13:44:15 <benJIman> optimisations can be performed later, rather than guessing in advance, compiled java will have to load huge libraries etc
Jan 15 13:45:12 <koen> a whole gallon of kool-aid even
Jan 15 13:45:57 <benJIman> gcj compiled stuff is nearly always slower than running with JVM, except for SWT
Jan 15 13:51:46 <benJIman> http://www.shudo.net/jit/perf/ some benchmarks of various vms with gcj as comparison
Jan 15 13:51:51 * Stephmw pulls the breaks
Jan 15 13:52:04 <Stephmw> guys. let's do this when we have a VM on the device.
Jan 15 13:52:14 <Stephmw> no sense mathturbating before
Jan 15 13:52:45 <Stephmw> *ahem*
Jan 15 13:53:07 <Stephmw> anyway, there are some nice games written for J2ME that I'd like to play
Jan 15 13:53:26 <koen> so add a recipe for it to OE
Jan 15 13:53:39 * koen wonders what is stopping those java wimps
Jan 15 13:54:40 <Stephmw> koen: for a start... a new shiny toy
Jan 15 13:54:48 <Stephmw> koen: gotta get something to work up the enthusiasm
Jan 15 13:55:08 * koen hires some cheerleaders
Jan 15 13:55:19 <Stephmw> <-- married
Jan 15 13:55:21 <Stephmw> :)
Jan 15 13:56:25 <koen> <-- not married, but taken
Jan 15 14:00:09 <manos> OK, i took a look around sun, looks like the sources for the CLDC HotSpot VM are or soon will be available
Jan 15 14:01:31 <manos> this is supposed to be much faster than KVM and targets 16/32 bit RISC like ARM, see  http://java.sun.com/products/cldc/
Jan 15 14:02:31 * koen points to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000884.html
Jan 15 14:03:39 <Tv> I want a pony.
Jan 15 14:03:48 <Tv> With multitouch.
Jan 15 14:05:03 <manos> rght, what OE? 
Jan 15 14:06:01 <koen> the first URL in the mail
Jan 15 14:07:17 <manos> ur build broke due to caffe?
Jan 15 14:07:53 <Stephmw> an existing VM is needed to bootstrap Sun's builds
Jan 15 14:08:07 <manos> i suppose i can try to build according to your email and sun's PDF but where would i run and test the thing?
Jan 15 14:08:13 <Stephmw> their build system is foobar'd
Jan 15 14:08:29 <manos> heh "In their infinite and infallible wisdom Sun decided that you need java to build java, so please have j2se installed"
Jan 15 14:08:35 <koen> I thought Ur was destroyed long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur
Jan 15 14:09:42 <koen> ah, the lunchbox will have jtag
Jan 15 14:09:53 * koen hopes it includes a bdi2000 as well
Jan 15 14:10:37 <stefan_schmidt> koen: heh, that would be sweet. :)
Jan 15 14:11:32 * koen waits for mickey|berlin to hint at the time and location of the announcement(s) 
Jan 15 14:12:05 <manos> this thing costs 2.5 k?
Jan 15 14:12:34 <stefan_schmidt> manos: The bdi200, yes. Of course it will not be included.
Jan 15 14:13:07 <koen> stefan_schmidt: some other kind of usb<>jtag thingy would be neat
Jan 15 14:17:33 <stefan_schmidt> koen: yes.
Jan 15 14:18:49 <stefan_schmidt> koen: I think it will be some kind of daughter board. Perhaps a usb connection to the whole board
Jan 15 14:59:25 <manchicken> Is openmoko free software under the GPL?
Jan 15 14:59:54 <Sencer> IIRC it's GPL and LGPL
Jan 15 15:00:09 <koen> and one closed source piece
Jan 15 15:00:19 <manchicken> What's that?
Jan 15 15:00:53 <manchicken> The GPS thingy?
Jan 15 15:01:20 <manchicken> I don't understand why that one is non-free.  Does anybody have time to explain that?
Jan 15 15:01:31 <noidd> 'lo
Jan 15 15:01:44 <noidd> because GPS emphemaris data isn't free
Jan 15 15:02:12 <manchicken> Is there any free GPS data?
Jan 15 15:02:24 <noidd> as I understajnd it, basic GPS functions will work without the non-free userspace daemon
Jan 15 15:02:55 <noidd> if you want added accuracy of the phone tower triangulation thingy, you need to run the non-free userspace daemon.
Jan 15 15:02:59 <noidd> users choice
Jan 15 15:03:07 <manchicken> Ah.
Jan 15 15:03:18 <so_solid_moo> noidd: that's apparently not correct; the gpsd is always needed.
Jan 15 15:03:48 <noidd> I'm prepared to be corrected
Jan 15 15:04:21 <Zer0Her0_> 2 questions, is there a ballpark that the device is gonna go for? and is any of this code available yet?
Jan 15 15:04:44 <manchicken> Does this so far only run on this phone by FIC?
Jan 15 15:04:47 <noidd> $350 and yes
Jan 15 15:04:47 <so_solid_moo> noidd: Sean said in December I think, on the list, that it was needed
Jan 15 15:05:16 <noidd> openembedded works on a metric tonne of devices
Jan 15 15:05:25 <noidd> the FIC phone is just another platform.
Jan 15 15:05:53 <manchicken> Is there a list of supported platforms?
Jan 15 15:06:16 <noidd> <manos> heh "In their infinite and infallible wisdom Sun decided that you need java to build java, so please have j2se installed"
Jan 15 15:06:25 <noidd> Meh, you need a C compiler to complie gcc
Jan 15 15:06:30 <noidd> it's not really that different
Jan 15 15:06:47 <seaLne> manchicken: http://www.openembedded.org/
Jan 15 15:08:40 <Zer0Her0_> sorry was grabbing some coffee, $350 USD?!?
Jan 15 15:09:03 <leventhal> for an unsubsidized phone with GPS that's cheap
Jan 15 15:09:07 <Zer0Her0_> oh i know
Jan 15 15:09:16 <Zer0Her0_> my amazement is at the cheapness actually
Jan 15 15:09:20 <leventhal> yeah me too
Jan 15 15:09:37 <mitsuhiko> woa. apple sucks
Jan 15 15:09:43 <Zer0Her0_> mitsuhiko: hehe ;)
Jan 15 15:09:58 <mitsuhiko> Zer0Her0_: just read that apple sues bloggers for iphone like skins...
Jan 15 15:10:05 <mitsuhiko> not for making them: for showing off them
Jan 15 15:10:11 <Zer0Her0_> ouch.
Jan 15 15:10:11 <marcellus> Isn't writing a language's compiler in itself every language designer's first goal, anyway.
Jan 15 15:10:32 <Zer0Her0_> *sigh* i'm worried apple is gonna lose their "cool" this year
Jan 15 15:10:57 <Zer0Her0_> where is the source located?
Jan 15 15:22:26 <jthomas> anyone know about the Neo's colour choices, when it goes on sale?
Jan 15 15:22:59 <so_solid_moo> pink and lime green.
Jan 15 15:23:13 <leventhal> is it p!nk pink or just regular kind?
Jan 15 15:23:22 * so_solid_moo is playing with you guys :)
Jan 15 15:33:33 <mickey|berlin> orange/white
Jan 15 15:33:38 <mickey|berlin> black/gra
Jan 15 15:33:38 <mickey|berlin> y
Jan 15 15:33:43 <mickey|berlin> these two combinations
Jan 15 15:34:39 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|berlin: And the brushed metal version? ;)
Jan 15 15:35:28 <mickey|berlin> nah (RF... ya know)
Jan 15 15:35:37 <mickey|berlin> the black/gray case looks good
Jan 15 15:38:00 <stefan_schmidt> ok, that's even the one I prefer.
Jan 15 15:40:54 <jthomas> :( i want orange/black or orange/grey... white looks too lame
Jan 15 15:41:03 <so_solid_moo> jthomas: spraypaint?
Jan 15 15:41:09 <xkr47> hi mickey!
Jan 15 15:41:16 <xkr47> any updates?
Jan 15 15:41:57 <Zer0Her0_> yea i second Orange/Black
Jan 15 15:41:57 <leventhal> i think i have till august left on my contract.. once that's over i'll pick up the neo1973
Jan 15 15:42:27 <leventhal> oh who am i kidding.. i'll probably buy one a couple months after its out
Jan 15 15:42:38 <leventhal> i just won't move my SIM
Jan 15 15:42:38 <Zer0Her0_> same here
Jan 15 15:42:48 <mickey|berlin> xkr47: no updates, but an announcement tomorrow
Jan 15 15:43:08 <xkr47> ok, take it easy :)
Jan 15 15:43:10 <sannes> the question is.. when tomorrow :P
Jan 15 15:43:20 <mickey|berlin> no idea
Jan 15 15:43:34 <mickey|berlin> it's not written yet :)
Jan 15 15:43:52 <jthomas> here is red/white (or is that orange?) and green/white  http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/fics-linuxbased-smartphone-213016.php
Jan 15 15:44:34 <mickey|berlin> these are not the final cass
Jan 15 15:44:35 <mickey|berlin> cases
Jan 15 15:46:36 <koen> the final case will have a 40" plasma screen
Jan 15 15:46:46 <koen> for watching HDTV decoded by the FPGAs
Jan 15 15:46:56 <prpplague> koen: hehe
Jan 15 15:47:24 <Tv> any "final case" is a coffin ;)
Jan 15 15:47:33 <mickey|berlin> indeed
Jan 15 15:47:34 <mickey|berlin> heh
Jan 15 15:47:35 <prpplague> koen: i'm kinda interested to find out if FIC will oem the guts for the moko
Jan 15 15:47:51 <mickey|berlin> ?
Jan 15 15:48:16 * sannes is wondering about the hackers lunch box ...
Jan 15 15:48:21 <koen> BYC - Bring your own case
Jan 15 15:48:44 <prpplague> mickey|berlin: basically to use the core components(i.e. the lcd and main board) in other OEM products
Jan 15 15:49:03 <mickey|berlin> ah
Jan 15 15:49:13 <mickey|berlin> no idea
Jan 15 15:49:43 <prpplague> mickey|berlin: alot of manufacturers will do that to increase their production volume and get better prices
Jan 15 15:50:12 <koen> mickey|berlin: with abiword 2.5.0 we can do colabrative sms writing :)
Jan 15 15:50:29 <prpplague> is there a wiki up for the moko yet?
Jan 15 15:51:09 <sannes> prpplague: think that is coming out the same time as the phone? or was that the community site?
Jan 15 15:51:36 <prpplague> sannes: i think thats the .org site that was listed to come out at the same time as the phone
Jan 15 15:52:01 <prpplague> the phone is suppose to retail for around $350USD right?
Jan 15 15:52:21 <koen> prpplague: http://linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko?highlight=%28moko%29
Jan 15 15:52:37 <prpplague> koen: ahh thanks
Jan 15 15:52:41 <koen> till wiki.openmoko.org goes live
Jan 15 15:52:58 <mickey|berlin> koen: very good :(
Jan 15 15:53:02 <mickey|berlin> sorry
Jan 15 15:53:04 <mickey|berlin> :)
Jan 15 15:53:04 <prpplague> koen: someone should add that to the topic
Jan 15 15:55:14 <prpplague> so has anyone here actually got dev hardware or are most people just doing software dev at the moment on similiar hardware?
Jan 15 16:00:25 <prpplague> koen: greetings btw
Jan 15 16:00:41 <prpplague> koen: hows the boss lady doing?
Jan 15 16:19:47 <koen> prpplague: doing very well
Jan 15 16:23:29 <koen> prpplague: how's your boss lady doing?
Jan 15 16:24:16 <prpplague> koen: hehe, good, but ready to get back to the states
Jan 15 16:24:29 <prpplague> koen: should be coming up with the kids around the middle of feb
Jan 15 16:27:04 * ciastek misses multitouch :(
Jan 15 16:37:37 <parag0n> Is the design for the openmoko phone done yet, or is it more a framework thet can run on multiple differend phones?
Jan 15 16:38:01 <stefan_schmidt> framework
Jan 15 16:38:15 <stefan_schmidt> Once the code is out guys will make it fitting for other phones.
Jan 15 16:43:01 <parag0n> It looks pretty neat
Jan 15 16:44:59 <parag0n> VGA Screen *drool*
Jan 15 16:45:49 <ciastek> what happend to the multouch? i have read wiki yesterday and it was there.
Jan 15 16:46:29 <Zer0Her0_> joys of software patents
Jan 15 16:46:42 <so_solid_moo> the hardware doesn't support it
Jan 15 16:47:06 <parag0n> pity about wifi :(
Jan 15 16:47:13 <ciastek> not nice :(
Jan 15 16:49:04 <mitsuhiko> so_solid_moo: no?
Jan 15 16:49:08 <mitsuhiko> i thought it was just a patent issue
Jan 15 16:50:25 <so_solid_moo> mitsuhiko: apparently the hardware would be capable, but it isn't wired in to do multitouch and there would be driver issues too (is what I heard)
Jan 15 16:50:38 <so_solid_moo> personally, I don't see that as being a big loss
Jan 15 16:50:54 <leventhal> Would be very handy for maps
Jan 15 16:51:21 <parag0n> yyou can ddrag round with your finger, and have a virtual slider down one side of the screen for zoom
Jan 15 16:51:34 <parag0n> thats how i'd do it anyway
Jan 15 16:51:45 <so_solid_moo> i prefer things like my touchpad, where you have sliders on the edge of the pad
Jan 15 16:52:00 <leventhal> Yeah.. I'd like to be able to twist the map with two fingers rather than rotate it with two sliders though
Jan 15 16:52:10 <parag0n> aye, that would be neat
Jan 15 16:52:20 <parag0n> but why would you need to twist the map?
Jan 15 16:52:33 <so_solid_moo> to turn it upside down, of course
Jan 15 16:52:35 <so_solid_moo> ^_^
Jan 15 16:53:01 * prpplague wonders why you'd turn a map upsidedown
Jan 15 16:53:06 <leventhal> I like making the direction I'm going on a street point to the top
Jan 15 16:53:12 <parag0n> turnthe phone upside down!
Jan 15 16:53:21 <leventhal> Hard to read the text then
Jan 15 16:53:27 <parag0n> hmm
Jan 15 16:53:40 <leventhal> anyhow.. not a big loss
Jan 15 16:53:43 <leventhal> still would be cool
Jan 15 16:53:47 <parag0n> ok, i'm going to design the best single-touch map software ever
Jan 15 16:53:51 <prpplague> leventhal: that's not good map skills, hehe
Jan 15 16:54:01 <leventhal> prpplague: no it isn't, and my sense of direction is pitiful
Jan 15 16:54:24 <parag0n> can you detect the movement of a finger on a normal touchscreen?
Jan 15 16:54:30 <leventhal> but its led to me finding a lot of good bars through serendipity
Jan 15 16:57:46 <parag0n> hmm, are there *no* wifi chipsets that are fully open source?
Jan 15 16:58:23 <prpplague> parag0n: not a one
Jan 15 16:58:35 <Sencer> parag0n: apparently yes, at least when it comes to embedded (low-power) chips. Lots of discussion on the mailing list in the past weeks
Jan 15 16:58:41 <leventhal> not even atmel?
Jan 15 16:59:27 <prpplague> leventhal: if there is one, no one has found it yet
Jan 15 16:59:54 <prpplague> the most work is going into marvell's chipsets due to it's usage in the OLPC project
Jan 15 17:00:32 <parag0n> thats a pity. What about orinoco? too high power, or am i missing something?
Jan 15 17:00:55 <parag0n> looking down the ideas list... i want one of these so much!
Jan 15 17:01:49 <mitsuhiko> so_solid_moo_: for me it's a loss
Jan 15 17:02:04 <mitsuhiko> multitouch is something i am/was really looking forward too
Jan 15 17:02:53 <Tv> mitsuhiko: remember how the touchscreen vendor said that it's a *driver* issue
Jan 15 17:03:04 <Tv> mitsuhiko: get cranking, find the chipset, find the docs, ..
Jan 15 17:03:14 <mitsuhiko> Tv: if it's just a driver issue we can fix that
Jan 15 17:03:29 <parag0n> so is the touchscreen actuelly capable of multitouch?
Jan 15 17:03:35 <Tv> read the mailing list
Jan 15 17:03:57 <parag0n> hate mailing lists :'(
Jan 15 17:04:27 <Tv> yes, pointless jibba-jabba on irc is much more useful
Jan 15 17:04:40 <parag0n> hells yeah ;)
Jan 15 17:04:47 <leventhal> much better for sapping my work productivity
Jan 15 17:04:48 <parag0n> well, i prefer forums, but you know ;)
Jan 15 17:04:54 <parag0n> or a wikikiki
Jan 15 17:05:43 <mitsuhiko> Tv: i don't find the mail
Jan 15 17:05:47 <mitsuhiko> *can't
Jan 15 17:06:03 <kabturek> hello openmokos ;)
Jan 15 17:06:17 <Zer0Her0_> i'm with parag0n 
Jan 15 17:06:30 <Sencer> mitsuhiko: download the tar.gz and grep
Jan 15 17:07:49 <Tv> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.openmoko.general/581/match=driver+touch
Jan 15 17:07:50 <Tv> so fscking hard
Jan 15 17:45:08 <jthomas> Tv: so the multitouch images posted here aren't going to be implemented?   http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/fics-linuxbased-smartphone-213016.php
Jan 15 17:45:26 <Tv> jthomas: did you read the email?
Jan 15 17:46:51 <jthomas> yeah :(
Jan 15 17:47:10 <jthomas> just wondering if there has been any changes to that line of thinking
Jan 15 17:47:56 <Tv> somebody needs to look at the driver first
Jan 15 17:48:05 <Tv> see if it can be done with neo v1 hardware or not
Jan 15 17:48:29 <Tv> instead, people just do drive by wishing
Jan 15 17:50:20 <prpplague> i've done several designs with the s3c2410 and have not seen any support for multitouch 
Jan 15 17:50:28 <koen> both tslib and x can't handle multitouch (yet)
Jan 15 17:50:47 <Sencer> Tv: well, it means that the device it getting more and more mainstream attention. ;)
Jan 15 17:51:26 <koen> more importantly the hardware doesn't support it
Jan 15 17:51:59 <Tv> koen: the email I linked sort of leaves that open
Jan 15 17:52:05 <Tv> and claims to be a statement from the vendor
Jan 15 17:52:59 <koen> that's an old email
Jan 15 17:53:25 <koen> FIC employees have stated later the neo hardware doesn't support it
Jan 15 17:53:33 <koen> even if the panel might
Jan 15 17:53:36 <Tv> ah
Jan 15 17:53:54 <koen> hence the note in the topic
Jan 15 17:54:31 <Tv> koen: there are levels of "no" here
Jan 15 17:54:48 <Tv> the "no" I was looking for was "not out of the box, not easily, but maybe"
Jan 15 17:54:52 * prpplague wonders how hard it will be to order one from the states
Jan 15 17:54:54 <Tv> the "no" you've offering is a "hardware no"
Jan 15 17:55:36 <mickey|berlin> the gizmodo source is misinformed. they merged stuff from different products. 
Jan 15 17:55:43 <kabturek> hardwar no are a no god 'no' ;)
Jan 15 17:57:20 <koen> mickey|berlin: could you whisper 'gstreamer' in sean's ear a few times?
Jan 15 17:57:27 <kabturek> man this keybord sucks .. s/hardwar/hardware  s/god/good ;)
Jan 15 18:10:59 * sannes is looking forward to ordering it, then five minutes later he'll be back in here saying "omg! just ordered and I still havn't received anything what is this? vaporware?!?!" .. 
Jan 15 18:12:17 * sannes bored
Jan 15 18:17:25 <parag0n> i've been sat here, vibrating, with my credit card in my hand since i found out about openmoko earlier today
Jan 15 18:17:50 <rboehme> join the club
Jan 15 18:17:52 <leventhal> ease back on the caffeine
Jan 15 18:18:03 <parag0n> i dont drink caffiene
Jan 15 18:18:12 <parag0n> hmm, maybe thats the problem...
Jan 15 18:18:14 <leventhal> well. um. try valium.
Jan 15 18:20:26 <spikebik1> heh
Jan 15 18:20:40 <spikebik1> crap I thought there was some news today
Jan 15 18:21:31 <rob_w> what is a multitouch ??  
Jan 15 18:21:46 <ciastek> :>
Jan 15 18:22:07 <parag0n> where a touchpad can detect two or more fingers touching it at once
Jan 15 18:26:49 <rob_w> ah that 
Jan 15 18:27:23 <rob_w> hmm thats interesting .. quite a feature for a phone i think, normally only industrial thingi 
Jan 15 18:31:33 <Melkman> multitouch seems to need a special touchscreen, see http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirsense/ and so prolly won't be doable on the neo
Jan 15 18:34:41 <xkr47> maybe some emulation..
Jan 15 18:41:44 <nyc_ktm> nothing to see here?
Jan 15 18:43:42 * Zer0Her0_ blinks and stares at nyc_ktm 
Jan 15 18:44:25 <nyc_ktm> I was hoping to gain some insight into Neo1973....
Jan 15 18:47:06 <mickey|berlin> what do you want to know? ask the right questions and I may answer three of them before continuing to work :)
Jan 15 18:50:21 <WilldRover> Answer me these questions 3!
Jan 15 18:51:25 <Zer0Her0_> haha
Jan 15 18:52:29 <mickey|berlin> heh
Jan 15 18:56:44 <Sencer> what is the sound of one hand clapping?
Jan 15 18:56:51 <cbpage> :)  can gprs and voice run simultaneously?
Jan 15 18:56:54 <cbpage> and what class gprs is it?
Jan 15 18:57:02 <nyc_ktm> ha. 
Jan 15 18:57:02 <nyc_ktm> ok
Jan 15 18:57:11 <nyc_ktm> my biggest question is about a keyboard interface
Jan 15 18:57:27 <nyc_ktm> assuming it is on the screen? touch based?
Jan 15 18:57:36 <cbpage> yeah it'd have to be - that or bluetooth
Jan 15 18:57:41 <cbpage> you could also do something t-9 like
Jan 15 18:58:42 <ciastek> can i use bluetooth headphones to listen to the music?
Jan 15 18:58:50 <nyc_ktm> bluetooth would not be good. for me at least. want mobile-ness (??) and keyboard...treo-ish but with a usable keyboard for those of us with larger fingers. :)
Jan 15 18:59:14 <Zer0Her0_> is t-9 licensable?  i know goes against open philosophy but alot of friends are fast with it.
Jan 15 18:59:40 <cbpage> who owns t9?
Jan 15 19:00:03 <nyc_ktm> what is t9?
Jan 15 19:00:14 <mitsuhiko> cbpage: nokia?
Jan 15 19:00:37 <mitsuhiko> nyc_ktm: text input for retarded
Jan 15 19:00:48 <nyc_ktm> ha. ok.
Jan 15 19:00:59 <kabturek> lol
Jan 15 19:01:32 <mitsuhiko> cbpage: tegic
Jan 15 19:01:41 <mitsuhiko> according to wikipedia
Jan 15 19:01:48 <ciastek> google says that tegic comm owns t9
Jan 15 19:02:28 <nyc_ktm> so is there currently no keyboard interface at this point? meaning, no way to type ON the device?
Jan 15 19:03:10 <mickey|berlin> yeah. early access release will use a simple on-screen keyboard that can be shown/hidden using a panel applet
Jan 15 19:03:16 <ciastek> and its great, because keyboards not good. at least steve says that...
Jan 15 19:03:26 <mickey|berlin> BT keyboard is on the agenda
Jan 15 19:04:02 <nyc_ktm> ha. nice
Jan 15 19:04:12 <ciastek> specification says that there are two hardware buttons. i assume that one of theme is power button. and the second one?
Jan 15 19:04:31 <nyc_ktm> at what point will others get to see what this thing will do?
Jan 15 19:05:15 <kabturek> the second one is just like an ordinary one but is used for the whole alphabet  :) you pres it 8 times for an "i" ;)
Jan 15 19:05:46 <ciastek> :D
Jan 15 19:05:55 <mitsuhiko> kabturek: wrong
Jan 15 19:06:06 <mitsuhiko> the first button is used to shift one bit
Jan 15 19:06:10 <mitsuhiko> the second to unshift one
Jan 15 19:06:21 <kabturek> but it will probably use t9 to know what you wanted to write ;)
Jan 15 19:06:23 <mitsuhiko> hold both buttons to go to the next char
Jan 15 19:06:29 <kabturek> hehe
Jan 15 19:06:32 <ciastek> mitsuhiko, is it something like undo-redo?
Jan 15 19:06:43 <mitsuhiko> ciastek: no. more like brainfuck
Jan 15 19:06:53 <mitsuhiko> </joke>
Jan 15 19:07:02 <mitsuhiko> i have no idea what the two buttons are for :)
Jan 15 19:09:52 <mickey|berlin> power button
Jan 15 19:09:59 <mickey|berlin> dialer button
Jan 15 19:10:10 <mickey|berlin> both featuring one tap action
Jan 15 19:10:19 <mickey|berlin> and one tap-and-hold action
Jan 15 19:11:27 <koen> ugh
Jan 15 19:11:43 <koen> short-press long-press is a horrible UI
Jan 15 19:11:59 <koen> the "press start to shutdown" for handhelds
Jan 15 19:12:52 <ciastek> what does 1973 stands for? :]
Jan 15 19:13:06 <koen> the price for v2 ;)
Jan 15 19:13:34 <mickey|berlin> hehehe
Jan 15 19:14:15 <mickey|berlin> right
Jan 15 19:14:18 <marcellus> yen
Jan 15 19:14:26 <mickey|berlin> EUR
Jan 15 19:14:33 <koen> gbp!
Jan 15 19:14:51 <marcellus> lbs!
Jan 15 19:14:51 <thresh_> rur
Jan 15 19:14:58 <koen> no, 1973 bottles of Leffe Brun
Jan 15 19:15:15 <mitsuhiko> ciastek: the year the mobile phone was invented
Jan 15 19:15:21 <Sencer> 1973 years of linux
Jan 15 19:15:21 <mickey|berlin> the amount of bottles to drink before v2 will see the light of day
Jan 15 19:15:26 <mitsuhiko> Sencer: ???
Jan 15 19:15:38 <buz> yikes
Jan 15 19:15:38 <Sencer> the romans invented it IIRC
Jan 15 19:15:39 <buz> i wont buy leffe
Jan 15 19:16:26 <marcellus> I would, if I got WiFi and a card slot.
Jan 15 19:16:38 <ciastek> mitsuhiko, wiki says none about that
Jan 15 19:17:03 <ericthefish> ciastek: 1973 was the year of the first mobile phone call
Jan 15 19:17:04 <buz> dark beer is waste of the ingredients
Jan 15 19:17:34 * marcellus throws Guinness bottles at buz
Jan 15 19:18:00 <buz> thats even worse
Jan 15 19:18:08 <ciastek> hehe, and not 1946? http://www.corp.att.com/attlabs/reputation/timeline/46mobile.html
Jan 15 19:18:13 * mitsuhiko throws murphy's bottles at buz
Jan 15 19:18:28 <mitsuhiko> .oO( r2 will be called 1984 then )
Jan 15 19:18:55 <mitsuhiko> and the first one who mentions that that was the year the mac was introduced gets kicked!
Jan 15 19:19:02 <philippe> buz: pilsener beer is a waste of water
Jan 15 19:19:07 <cbpage> nope, 1984 is taken by iPhone already
Jan 15 19:19:08 <mitsuhiko> .oO( i don't have op rights here... )
Jan 15 19:19:12 <marcellus> waste water?
Jan 15 19:19:15 <marcellus> :D
Jan 15 19:19:20 <buz> mhh i prefer unfiltered
Jan 15 19:19:30 <buz> or wheat beer
Jan 15 19:19:57 <WilldRover> Is it a coincidence that the iphone looks so much like the Neo 1973?
Jan 15 19:20:08 <ciastek> mitsuhiko, why 1984?
Jan 15 19:20:10 <marcellus> Does it?
Jan 15 19:20:18 <kabturek> v2 - 1984 couse the users will be watched by the big brother :)
Jan 15 19:20:29 <ciastek> :D
Jan 15 19:20:30 <mitsuhiko> WilldRover: is it coincidence that the iphone supports multitouch?
Jan 15 19:20:44 <mitsuhiko> kabturek: v2 of the microsoft phone?
Jan 15 19:20:47 <ericthefish> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones  see the bit about Dr. Martin Cooper
Jan 15 19:20:48 <mitsuhiko> guess i missed the v1
Jan 15 19:20:58 <koen> hey philippe 
Jan 15 19:21:14 <Sencer> don't basically all wince phones look as much like the iphone as the Neo1973?
Jan 15 19:21:41 <Sencer> wince ~ windows mobile
Jan 15 19:21:58 <ciastek> ericthefish, thank you
Jan 15 19:22:06 <ericthefish> size and weight are all that matter to me really, don't care what it looks like it'll spend most of it's time in my pocket
Jan 15 19:22:06 <buz> mhh there are a few special winmob
Jan 15 19:22:18 <ciastek> i lake meaningful names :]
Jan 15 19:22:26 <buz> well i'd still prefer it not to be pink
Jan 15 19:22:41 <buz> tho if it came with wifi, i might just bought pink edition ;)
Jan 15 19:23:11 <ericthefish> heh I'm with you there
Jan 15 19:36:54 <mickey|berlin> wifi is overrated :D
Jan 15 19:39:31 <kabturek> im not falling on this one ;)
Jan 15 19:41:08 <mitsuhiko> mickey|berlin: hmm. tell that my wii and nintendo ds
Jan 15 19:42:19 <koen> nintendos are overrated
Jan 15 19:42:45 <Demitar> The bluetooth however was is a real boon. :)
Jan 15 19:42:58 <Demitar> s/was //
Jan 15 19:42:58 <apt> Demitar meant: The bluetooth however is a real boon. :)
Jan 15 19:43:18 <stefan_schmidt> koen: wii is cool. But wifi is only used for internet access. They use bt for controller. And internet is overrated, which brings us back to wifi is overrated. ;)
Jan 15 19:44:15 <nyc_ktm> so...again...when might we actually know what this device will do? be able to see it doing something? :)
Jan 15 19:44:18 * koen wonders why a wallsocket based computer needs wifi
Jan 15 19:45:08 <xkr47> to extend the internets
Jan 15 19:45:09 <xkr47> ;)
Jan 15 19:45:16 <stefan_schmidt> koen: No idea.
Jan 15 19:45:16 <kabturek> koen, hmm i used mine for internet access :)
Jan 15 19:45:24 <mitsuhiko> xkr47: using tubes?
Jan 15 19:45:39 <koen> especially since a wii is near a tv, which has a zillion cables already
Jan 15 19:45:45 <leventhal> looks neater than having wires held to walls and less effort than running cables through cielings and walls
Jan 15 19:46:20 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: What do mean with waht the device will do? It's a phone
Jan 15 19:46:29 <kabturek> you know the standard - antenna outside the window, wardriving , free internet ... ;)
Jan 15 19:47:16 <nyc_ktm> so...you are saying this is NOT something I can replace a treo/bb/whatever with?
Jan 15 19:47:32 <nyc_ktm> in terms of inet connections and doing things other than talking?
Jan 15 19:48:09 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: Of course you can use it as PDA, too. Music player should even work. Not sure about video.
Jan 15 19:48:28 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: Internet over gprs, bluetooth or usb.
Jan 15 19:48:34 <nyc_ktm> I'm more interesting in things like, being able to ssh to my boxes if need be and being able to pop email from a server
Jan 15 19:48:44 <nyc_ktm> (hence my keyboard questions)
Jan 15 19:48:56 <nyc_ktm> :)
Jan 15 19:49:31 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: It's linux, why it should not work? But the first phones will have a bare software setup.
Jan 15 19:49:49 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: Anyway, you can add all the apps you like.
Jan 15 19:50:09 <nyc_ktm> stefan_sch: understood. I guess I should be asking how 'bare' it will be for v1
Jan 15 19:50:54 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: dialer, sms, contacts and app manager. Something like this.
Jan 15 19:51:18 <nyc_ktm> cool.
Jan 15 19:51:53 <nyc_ktm> www.openmoko.com is a little sparse...where will soeone be able to purchcase one when it is available?
Jan 15 19:52:17 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: The most work is done in the framework for gsmlibrary, widgets framework and stuff
Jan 15 19:52:43 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: Subscribe to announce ml or poll the website.
Jan 15 19:52:54 <nyc_ktm> already ahve. :)
Jan 15 19:52:58 <ciastek> what about bluetooth headphones?
Jan 15 19:53:27 <stefan_schmidt> nyc_ktm: Then you have done everything to get the official announcements.
Jan 15 19:53:40 <nyc_ktm> :) cool. thanks
Jan 15 19:53:56 <stefan_schmidt> ciastek: No idea. I guess normal headphone should work. No Idea about stereo.
Jan 15 19:54:12 <kabturek> so it will have the usuall mini jack ?
Jan 15 19:54:25 <ciastek> kabturek, afaik there is no jack connector
Jan 15 19:54:46 <stefan_schmidt> kabturek: You mean 3,5mm headphone jack?
Jan 15 19:54:54 <kabturek> stefan_schmidt, yes
Jan 15 19:55:12 <stefan_schmidt> kabturek: I heard about a 2,5mm version. Standard for cellphones.
Jan 15 19:55:44 <kabturek> stefan_schmidt, will do :)
Jan 15 19:56:30 <stefan_schmidt> kabturek: It's in the primary spec: http://openmoko.com/press/index.html#preliminary_specification
Jan 15 19:57:24 <ciastek> nice
Jan 15 19:57:30 <kabturek> stefan_schmidt, oh yeah i must have missed that , thx
Jan 15 19:58:03 <ciastek> but why usb1? :(
Jan 15 19:58:42 <stefan_schmidt> ciastek: The Chip only offers usb1
Jan 15 19:58:47 <ciastek> ok! :]
Jan 15 19:59:36 <kabturek> the memory card will be hot swapable ?
Jan 15 19:59:41 <mjr> it won't
Jan 15 20:00:15 <stefan_schmidt> kabturek: The card is under the battery
Jan 15 20:00:54 <ciastek> everything is better than 3,5mb in my 7650 :>
Jan 15 20:04:36 <Laibsch> mitsuhiko: re your nick.  Interested in Japanese?
Jan 15 20:06:09 <mitsuhiko> Laibsch: haha, why the question?
Jan 15 20:06:19 <mitsuhiko> maybe i would be interested but i have no time to learn another language :)
Jan 15 20:07:54 <Laibsch> mitsuhiko: mitsuhiko is Japanese name.  I guess you are into Manga, then?
Jan 15 20:08:15 <xorAxAx> Laibsch: hi, he is only reading hentai :)
Jan 15 20:08:39 <kabturek> gits rocks :)
Jan 15 20:08:39 <mitsuhiko> Laibsch: yeah. i was two years ago
Jan 15 20:09:17 <mitsuhiko> I've chosen that nick after one of the characters in meitantei konan
Jan 15 20:09:34 <xorAxAx> mitsuhiko: what is it about? :)
Jan 15 20:09:51 <_ASK> hi
Jan 15 20:09:55 <mitsuhiko> xorAxAx: a detective who was morphed into a 8 year old kid
Jan 15 20:09:55 <buz> so implementing wifi in neo would cost >150$
Jan 15 20:09:58 <buz> i sure dont believe that
Jan 15 20:10:18 <xorAxAx> buz: it would cost more than that :)
Jan 15 20:10:30 <buz> per shipped phone
Jan 15 20:10:32 <xorAxAx> buz: hehe
Jan 15 20:10:45 <buz> "
Jan 15 20:10:45 <buz> . This is
Jan 15 20:10:45 <buz> the _only_ way I could sell a device in the sub-$500 range.
Jan 15 20:10:45 <_ASK> does someone know the actual specifications of the phone?
Jan 15 20:11:23 <mitsuhiko> _ASK: on the ml
Jan 15 20:11:35 <_ASK> ml?
Jan 15 20:11:45 <_ASK> mailing list?
Jan 15 20:11:55 <stefan_schmidt> _ASK: It's still: http://openmoko.com/press/index.html#preliminary_specification + bluetooth
Jan 15 20:12:24 <_ASK> no wifi...
Jan 15 20:12:25 <mitsuhiko> _ASK: yes
Jan 15 20:13:06 <jjazz> _ASK: There's more up-to-date spec info at http://lwn.net/Articles/217020/
Jan 15 20:13:09 <jjazz> _ASK: But no wifi
Jan 15 20:13:57 <Sencer> buz: it has been said that the cost is so low, because the "same" device is being manufactured in high numbers for other customers (running windows mobile IIRC). Maybe that's why adding wifi would have been so expensive.
Jan 15 20:13:59 <_ASK> i have a treo 650 right now; i don't really have complaints about it; when i saw the idea for an open phone i thought it was great, but the actual phone doesn't convince me...
Jan 15 20:14:19 <buz> Sencer: i know that
Jan 15 20:14:32 <buz> but i also know that you can build pcb without actually using all the features in every model you ship...
Jan 15 20:14:47 <_ASK> for example, the Treo has a built in keyboard, which saves you for putting stress on the touchscreen all the time
Jan 15 20:14:58 <buz> _ASK: touch screens are really durable
Jan 15 20:15:08 <buz> my 3 year old p900 only recently started to act up
Jan 15 20:15:19 <buz> which is much better than most keypad based phones
Jan 15 20:15:28 <_ASK> yeah, but you are saying it yourself
Jan 15 20:15:34 <Sencer> I second that
Jan 15 20:15:57 <jjazz> _ASK: The advantage to the keyboard is faster input, not durability.  The problem with keyboards is that they take up space (i.e. the Treo has a small screen) and they're expensive.  So it's a tradeoff.
Jan 15 20:16:13 <_ASK> that's for sure
Jan 15 20:16:15 <jjazz> _ASK: I'd like a keyboard too, but I'm not sure where on the device they could put it.
Jan 15 20:16:31 <_ASK> i'm seeing VGA screen... sounds a tradeoff for keyboard
Jan 15 20:16:51 <_ASK> but 640x480 is really a gorgous resolution for a phone...
Jan 15 20:17:23 <mitsuhiko> jjazz: on screen keyboard
Jan 15 20:17:25 <_ASK> that's what my first computer monitor had =)
Jan 15 20:17:46 <jjazz> mitsuhiko: It won't be as fast a thumboard.
Jan 15 20:18:03 <Sencer> yeah, high resolution, but the screen size is still somewhat smaller than on a p900.
Jan 15 20:18:10 <_ASK> and again, you always risk damaging it.
Jan 15 20:18:16 <mitsuhiko> jjazz: that's true
Jan 15 20:18:41 <mitsuhiko> if they would remove those strange handles on the top and bottom of the neo, they could add one
Jan 15 20:18:47 <jjazz> _ASK: Don't you always risk damaging *any* screen?  I don't see how lack of a keyboard leads to more screen damage risk.
Jan 15 20:18:49 <_ASK> by the way, there is plenty of space both on top and bottom
Jan 15 20:19:13 <_ASK> have you ever dissasembled a pocket pc?
Jan 15 20:19:24 <Sencer> it's not plenty for a qwerty keyboard
Jan 15 20:19:31 <jjazz> _ASK: I've taken apart the Treo and various older palms, but not a pocket pc
Jan 15 20:19:46 <_ASK> there is the TFT screen and over it an extremelly thin touch panel
Jan 15 20:20:11 <jjazz> _ASK: Have you ever had one go bad during normal use?
Jan 15 20:20:22 <_ASK> yes
Jan 15 20:20:28 <buz> define normal use
Jan 15 20:20:40 <_ASK> it's the reason why i bought the treo
Jan 15 20:20:40 <jjazz> I've been using touch screen pocket devices for a long time and never had the touchscreen be the thing that dies.
Jan 15 20:20:57 * greentux wonders why they used no ralink wifi. ralink is very "open"
Jan 15 20:20:59 <Sencer> on both of my p900 the keypad went bad, and the touchpads kept working (after being dropped a few times)
Jan 15 20:21:05 <jjazz> buz: Normal use means stabbing the thing repeatedly with a sledgehammer. :P
Jan 15 20:21:13 <buz> the p900 screen even survives the common breaking of its horribly badly engineered frame
Jan 15 20:21:20 <_ASK> hahahaha
Jan 15 20:21:29 <_ASK> well, i don't know if i just had bad luck
Jan 15 20:21:29 <prpplague> greentux: ralink is "open" only if you aren't an oem
Jan 15 20:21:32 <yacc> greentux: is it open and power saving?
Jan 15 20:21:34 <_ASK> but mine stopped working
Jan 15 20:21:53 <buz> touchscreen is well understood
Jan 15 20:21:56 <buz> any halfway decent asian phone has one
Jan 15 20:22:22 <greentux> ralink has open drivers as far as I know. no closed binary blobs etc
Jan 15 20:22:23 <jjazz> _ASK: Well, obviously *some* will fail.  It's a question of how many per thousand.  Touchscreens are considered pretty durable.
Jan 15 20:22:24 <buz> i had actually been wondering for a hwile why the ipod didnt simply go towards touchscreen
Jan 15 20:22:39 <jjazz> buz: Because you have to look at a touch screen to use it.
Jan 15 20:22:47 <buz> na
Jan 15 20:22:55 <buz> you could easily do the ipod interface on a touchscreen
Jan 15 20:23:11 <ciastek> so you say, that touchscreen is less expensive that keyboard?
Jan 15 20:23:16 <_ASK> well, whatever, i think there is enough space to built a phone very much like the treo
Jan 15 20:23:25 <jjazz> buz: What about no-look volume adjustments and track skipping?  What about sticking it in your pocket while running and it bounces around generating touches?
Jan 15 20:23:40 <_ASK> if you look at the pictures they waster quite a bit of space both on top and bottom
Jan 15 20:23:40 <jjazz> ciastek: generally, yes
Jan 15 20:23:46 <buz> capacitive touchscreen (same thing goes for the touchwheel)
Jan 15 20:24:04 <buz> (and furthermore, the shuffle has a normal button thingy which enver did anything it wasnt told for me)
Jan 15 20:24:23 <buz> jjazz: as for commands, switch to gestures instead of buttons
Jan 15 20:24:34 <buz> anyone should be able to remember 5 gestures
Jan 15 20:24:46 <jjazz> buz: I admit I've never touched an ipod, but I mechanical controls.
Jan 15 20:25:00 <ciastek> gestures sounds great
Jan 15 20:25:11 <noidd> we'ew going to have our work cut out beating iPhone at its own game
Jan 15 20:25:12 <_ASK> by the way, i thought the treo screen had a diminute dot pitch already, how are you going to handle the VGA one?
Jan 15 20:25:13 <buz> the mechanical ipods are said to have suffered of dirt invasion rather quickly
Jan 15 20:25:13 <jjazz> I *prefer*, even
Jan 15 20:25:22 <noidd> out-perty apple
Jan 15 20:25:23 <noidd> heh,
Jan 15 20:25:24 <buz> more dpi==better
Jan 15 20:25:36 <_ASK> well, if you have an scalable UI
Jan 15 20:25:41 <buz> dpi is one of the things you cant have too many of
Jan 15 20:25:48 <_ASK> because, on the treo, the smallest text on documents to go is barely readable
Jan 15 20:26:02 <kabturek> touch wheel rocks , so say i ;)
Jan 15 20:26:05 <ciastek> of course touchscreen have to be operated with stylus?
Jan 15 20:26:11 <buz> ciastek: no
Jan 15 20:26:14 <_ASK> no
Jan 15 20:26:17 <buz> they work with fingers in general
Jan 15 20:26:19 <ciastek> wow!
Jan 15 20:26:22 <_ASK> you can use your finger
Jan 15 20:26:25 <ciastek> great! :]
Jan 15 20:26:27 <buz> (except for the tablet pc ones, but there it's a good thing)
Jan 15 20:26:30 <jjazz> noidd: Apple is going to spend a lot of money creating a market for devices like these.  The Moko doesn't have to be the next ipod to be a success.  And with more software and lower costs, it will compete.  Hopefully, it will win for stability too.
Jan 15 20:26:33 <_ASK> altough i recommend not using your pocket knife.
Jan 15 20:26:36 <buz> means you can rest your hand on the screen
Jan 15 20:26:56 <buz> not that i ever use my tablet pc as tablet
Jan 15 20:26:56 <noidd> I'm looking at my own definition of success.
Jan 15 20:27:01 <jjazz> _ASK: Yes, you use a sledgehammer.  Hence all your touchscreen troubles.
Jan 15 20:27:14 <noidd> I want my local iPhone owning fanbois to crave my openmoko
Jan 15 20:27:19 <_ASK> nah, i take care of my phones really well
Jan 15 20:27:34 * buz wonders if a saphire coated touchscreen could work
Jan 15 20:27:37 <_ASK> the first phone i had lasted me 5 years and i dropped it because some keys started to fail
Jan 15 20:27:40 <noidd> I wonder how these phones will stand up to being dropped on concrete :-)
Jan 15 20:27:44 <_ASK> never dropped it, not even once.
Jan 15 20:27:46 <buz> my saphire watch glass still is unscratched after 7 years
Jan 15 20:27:55 <buz> noidd: my p900 fell plenty times
Jan 15 20:27:57 <buz> didnt hurt it
Jan 15 20:28:14 <noidd> my treo, blackberry and other misc phones all bounced tens of times
Jan 15 20:28:23 <noidd> my Zaurus 5000 and c750
Jan 15 20:28:23 <_ASK> i've never dropped the treo in more than a year, it still looks new.
Jan 15 20:28:25 <buz> now as for that sony phone i jumbed into the lake wiht, that's a different story really
Jan 15 20:28:25 <noidd> all bounce
Jan 15 20:28:31 <jjazz> I don't drop things.
Jan 15 20:28:50 <buz> if you drop things, add silicone skin
Jan 15 20:28:55 <buz> (i call the things device condoms)
Jan 15 20:29:02 <noidd> over a touchscreen?
Jan 15 20:29:07 <buz> around it
Jan 15 20:29:11 <_ASK> they are made so you can use the screen
Jan 15 20:29:22 <buz> unless you drop the thing onto an edge, the touchscreen will be fine 
Jan 15 20:29:35 <buz> it's not like it protrudes from the case
Jan 15 20:30:17 <kabturek> if you drop things use some kind of neck strap etc :)
Jan 15 20:30:22 <buz> mhh fic finally links to openmoko
Jan 15 20:30:26 <buz> i guess thats a good thing
Jan 15 20:30:26 <jjazz> kabturek: And wear a helmet.
Jan 15 20:31:34 <_ASK> i'm going to buy one only if they make something with keyboard and wifi.
Jan 15 20:32:04 <buz> mhh you could try convinve tech faith wireless to put linux on their phone
Jan 15 20:32:08 <Sencer> _ASK: as has been stated, the main target group currently developers
Jan 15 20:32:22 <Zer0Her0_> did they drop wifi?
Jan 15 20:32:24 <_ASK> yeah, that's what i thought
Jan 15 20:32:37 <buz> Zer0Her0_: there nevewas wifi
Jan 15 20:32:38 <xkr47> Sencer, so much better chances for me to get one ;)
Jan 15 20:32:44 <Zer0Her0_> oh :(
Jan 15 20:32:45 <Zer0Her0_> boo
Jan 15 20:32:49 <_ASK> i just hope they don't lower the resolution on future models
Jan 15 20:33:00 <xkr47> 640x480 sounds nice
Jan 15 20:33:00 <jjazz> _ASK: I'd be surprised if they went in that direction.
Jan 15 20:33:31 <xkr47> I can either have 80x49 or 106x36 with a 6x13 font :)
Jan 15 20:33:31 <prpplague> do any of the FIC people show up in here?
Jan 15 20:33:31 <_ASK> one question
Jan 15 20:33:42 <_ASK> for those who know the details about such platforms
Jan 15 20:34:01 <ciastek> no keyboard is fine
Jan 15 20:34:02 <_ASK> persistent memory is done by hardware or software? i thought dynamic heap on palms was software
Jan 15 20:34:10 <jjazz> prpplague: They're aware of the channel.  Haven't seen anybody from FIC pipe up, though.
Jan 15 20:34:48 <_ASK> either that or they don't say it openly
Jan 15 20:34:54 <buz> jjazz: there are a few devs around, occasionaly
Jan 15 20:35:23 <buz> but i guess we should be happy that they work on developping instead of wasting time on irc as we dod
Jan 15 20:35:30 <jjazz> buz: I've never spoken to any that I'm aware of, but then I drop in only sporadically.
Jan 15 20:36:44 <_ASK> 128MB of RAM
Jan 15 20:36:48 <_ASK> that sounds good.
Jan 15 20:37:27 <prpplague> jjazz: ahh ok
Jan 15 20:38:16 <Zer0Her0_> where does one find the source code?
Jan 15 20:38:21 <buz> no where
Jan 15 20:38:29 <buz> itll be released when the hardware is ready
Jan 15 20:38:46 <Zer0Her0_> ah
Jan 15 20:39:34 <buz> mhh eten is supposedly building 3G wifi qwerty sliders with VGA screen
Jan 15 20:40:07 <jjazz> buz: Does it run linux?
Jan 15 20:40:13 <buz> winmobile
Jan 15 20:40:41 <buz> now maybe if fic sells enough neos, eten could possible be convinced to port linux to their phoens?
Jan 15 20:40:48 <buz> (HTC is a lost cause)
Jan 15 20:41:01 <_ASK> sliders wear out.
Jan 15 20:41:10 <_ASK> mechanical stress is bad.
Jan 15 20:41:21 <buz> says he who wants a keypad
Jan 15 20:41:37 <_ASK> yeah, mechanical stress on the screen is bad also.
Jan 15 20:41:43 <buz> qwerty slider is the only way to get reasonably sized keyboard on a phone
Jan 15 20:41:51 <jjazz> buz: clamshell?
Jan 15 20:41:55 <_ASK> Treo's keyboard is usable
Jan 15 20:42:05 <buz> usable!=good
Jan 15 20:43:26 <_ASK> the best design i've seen is the motorola A780
Jan 15 20:43:55 <_ASK> except that it still has phone keys instead of a full keyboard
Jan 15 20:43:56 <pike_> virtual keyboard. red laser projected on desk built into phone would be nice
Jan 15 20:44:39 <_ASK> it is clamshell, which protects the delicate screen (no need for a case)
Jan 15 20:44:56 <_ASK> you can use it as a regular phone when not using the PDA
Jan 15 20:45:17 <_ASK> something like fast tap would be great...
Jan 15 20:45:31 <kabturek> oh i think that you people need an 
Jan 15 20:45:33 <kabturek> PDA
Jan 15 20:45:50 <kabturek> its a phone :) its main usage is phoning
Jan 15 20:46:03 <koen> otherwise it's a phony phone
Jan 15 20:46:03 <_ASK> you say that because you don't have a treo
Jan 15 20:46:04 <buz> not for me
Jan 15 20:46:07 <kabturek> and its great that it will have linux and stuff  so it will be enhancable
Jan 15 20:46:57 <kabturek> for me it will be a great phone ... if i woulg like to ssh to my server i would by mysel a umpc etc
Jan 15 20:46:57 <_ASK> i always wanted a PDA, but it was carrying the phone and the PDA at the same time
Jan 15 20:47:02 <_ASK> charging both devices
Jan 15 20:47:05 <_ASK> etc
Jan 15 20:47:10 <_ASK> too much maintanance
Jan 15 20:48:19 <_ASK> on the treo you can use it all the day like a phone
Jan 15 20:48:32 <_ASK> and then use it as a PDA at any time, without having to do anything
Jan 15 20:49:08 <kabturek> i think that it will be great because it will be possible to expand it - and write stuff , it will allow writing apps that will do the thing that you need ssh to do ;)
Jan 15 20:49:21 <kabturek> _ASK, i think you must wait for the v2 then :)
Jan 15 20:49:31 <_ASK> but it's not a tooy for geeks
Jan 15 20:49:33 <_ASK> it's a PDA phone
Jan 15 20:49:42 <kabturek> or v3 - dont know which will be the 'beast' ;)
Jan 15 20:50:03 <_ASK> if they intend to reach anything, they will have to start thinking on usability
Jan 15 20:50:15 <kabturek> v1 is a toy for geeks / developers imo
Jan 15 20:50:34 <kabturek> im not saying that ordinary people wont know how to use it :)
Jan 15 20:50:39 <_ASK> make the phone the smallest and lightest possible, integrating lots of connectivity, ergonomics and input methods, i don't know
Jan 15 20:50:51 <_ASK> everything that makes a phone that you can slip into your pocket and forget about
Jan 15 20:51:10 <kabturek> yeah ... definitly v.3 ;)
Jan 15 20:51:14 <_ASK> =)
Jan 15 20:51:19 <ciastek> i cant wait to play with neo
Jan 15 20:51:28 <ciastek> to _play_, not to call with it :]
Jan 15 20:51:37 <kabturek> ciastek, no kidding ? ;)
Jan 15 20:51:47 <mjr> of course, a phone's not for calling
Jan 15 20:51:49 <mjr> it's for ircing
Jan 15 20:51:54 <ciastek> :D
Jan 15 20:52:01 <xkr47> yeah
Jan 15 20:52:09 <xkr47> I heard there are two buttons only on the phone
Jan 15 20:52:24 <xkr47> I guess is "open #openmoko support channel fullscreen"
Jan 15 20:52:24 <buz> that's ok
Jan 15 20:52:28 <xkr47> I guess one is*
Jan 15 20:52:30 <buz> you can type binary
Jan 15 20:52:38 <kabturek> yeah and no mic ;) who wants to call ? ;)
Jan 15 20:52:38 <mjr> that is a bit suboptimal, I'm thinking bluetooth keyboards
Jan 15 20:52:41 <mjr> (bluetooth!)
Jan 15 20:52:42 <xkr47> you only need one button to type binary :)
Jan 15 20:52:53 <mjr> well yes, one will need a morse code input
Jan 15 20:52:56 <_ASK> and to carry a full keyboard whereever you go.
Jan 15 20:53:05 <mjr> (I happen to know morse code, even ;)
Jan 15 20:53:06 <Sencer> am I the only one who gets constantly reminded of the Simpson episode where Homer met his brother and designed "The Homer" car for the average american?
Jan 15 20:53:18 <_ASK> hahaha
Jan 15 20:53:22 <_ASK> i remember that one
Jan 15 20:53:31 <xkr47> mjr, - - -  · · ·  · · ·
Jan 15 20:53:37 <xkr47> :)
Jan 15 20:54:30 <_ASK> since it's open source it could be implemented a speech recognition
Jan 15 20:54:52 <xkr47> _ASK, yeah.. "you sound too drunk.. phone access denied"
Jan 15 20:55:05 <xkr47> and then when you read the system log in the morning you think "thank god"
Jan 15 20:55:05 <_ASK> yeah, as a safety rule =)
Jan 15 20:55:36 <kabturek> hehe
Jan 15 20:55:45 <_ASK> i saw some time ago an experiment in an university of Germany
Jan 15 20:55:45 <buz> mhh if it could stop me from sending drunken sms. now that would be a feature
Jan 15 20:55:50 <xkr47> time for some food ->
Jan 15 20:55:55 <_ASK> that they had developed a system which followed the movement of the eyes
Jan 15 20:55:58 <kabturek> buz, ++
Jan 15 20:56:08 <_ASK> there is a loox model which as a camera on top of the phone
Jan 15 20:56:17 <_ASK> i was wondering if your could point by just looking.
Jan 15 20:56:26 <buz> irc'ing drunk is fine
Jan 15 20:56:34 <buz> it's not like anyone actually cares what you say ;)
Jan 15 20:56:46 <kabturek> _ASK, hmm but how the dman thing know when i want to click ?
Jan 15 20:56:59 <_ASK> it doesn't guess, it has a button :P
Jan 15 20:57:11 <_ASK> you point, but to press it has a simple button
Jan 15 20:57:18 <kabturek> blink to click :D
Jan 15 20:57:32 <_ASK> it would be a mess =)
Jan 15 20:57:44 <buz> lets do a really simple phone
Jan 15 20:57:47 <buz> with ONE button
Jan 15 20:58:02 <ciastek> "do what i want" button
Jan 15 20:58:04 <_ASK> and keyboard.
Jan 15 20:58:11 <_ASK> oh.
Jan 15 20:58:27 <buz> as long as the keyboard has just one button, that's fine
Jan 15 20:58:49 <_ASK> i just wish they clone the treo
Jan 15 20:59:01 <buz> oh give it up
Jan 15 20:59:07 <kabturek> hehe ;)
Jan 15 20:59:11 <buz> the treo is not even the neatest of the qwerty devices
Jan 15 20:59:20 <_ASK> to me it is
Jan 15 20:59:26 <kabturek> motorola q ? ;)
Jan 15 20:59:27 <_ASK> and i've used quite a few
Jan 15 20:59:38 <_ASK> too wide
Jan 15 20:59:56 <_ASK> 240x240 screen
Jan 15 20:59:58 <buz> has no wifi, no decent cam and all but newest editions even come with a frigging antenna
Jan 15 21:00:03 <buz> that's like from the last centurey
Jan 15 21:00:15 <kabturek> ehh im not ito such phones .. im buing motorola e2 couse it has linux onboard :)
Jan 15 21:00:16 <basti> Is there any other good OS mobile phone out there?
Jan 15 21:00:26 <_ASK> come on guys
Jan 15 21:00:39 <_ASK> how good is to have a large screen if you have to have an on screen keyboard?
Jan 15 21:00:48 <kabturek> basti, motorola e2 ! ;)
Jan 15 21:01:21 <buz> look i would like qwerty as well
Jan 15 21:01:24 <buz> but bigger screen is more important
Jan 15 21:01:34 <_ASK> treo screen is 2.2 i think
Jan 15 21:01:36 <ciastek> _ASK, because you can hide onscreen keyboard
Jan 15 21:01:39 <buz> besides, the best keyboard is on the nokia e61
Jan 15 21:01:42 <_ASK> the screen on this phone is 2.8
Jan 15 21:01:44 <buz> is wide, but goooood
Jan 15 21:01:46 <ciastek> and you cant do that with hardkeyboard
Jan 15 21:01:48 <_ASK> very similar in size
Jan 15 21:02:00 <basti> is there an sdk for the e2 and has it wifi??
Jan 15 21:02:16 <_ASK> but you have to use the stylus...
Jan 15 21:02:28 <_ASK> the idea of having a keyboard is that you don't need to use both hands...
Jan 15 21:02:36 <buz> there is a moto phone with wifi????
Jan 15 21:02:55 <stefan_schmidt> no
Jan 15 21:03:01 <buz> so i thought
Jan 15 21:03:02 <basti> i don't know
Jan 15 21:03:03 <_ASK> i am starting to belive that you play with the phones more than using them
Jan 15 21:03:16 <Vegar> isn't that the point?
Jan 15 21:03:17 <buz> ROTFL
Jan 15 21:03:25 <buz> you mean you can use them for real stuff?
Jan 15 21:03:35 <buz> gadget are toys
Jan 15 21:03:53 <_ASK> to me it's a phone which can dual as a mini computer at times
Jan 15 21:04:09 <buz> to me, it's the other way round
Jan 15 21:04:13 <Vegar> now that's a pretty large phone
Jan 15 21:04:15 <_ASK> i installed a program called card reader on the phone, now it's an SD card reader
Jan 15 21:04:20 <stefan_schmidt> _ASK: if (kernel_hacking == playing) {kprint("You're right.");}
Jan 15 21:04:51 <_ASK> i installed annother program to turn it into a remote control trough the IR port
Jan 15 21:05:00 <_ASK> i want it to do useful things
Jan 15 21:05:17 <basti> what do u guys think about the greenphone?
Jan 15 21:05:34 <basti> is it slow?
Jan 15 21:05:54 <Melkman> hmm, just read on a dutch website that the neo will be released in march... http://tweakers.net/nieuws/45921/Eerste-samples-open-Linux-telefoon-in-maart-verwacht.html
Jan 15 21:05:54 <stefan_schmidt> _ASK: This is the developer lounge.
Jan 15 21:05:56 <Stephmw> basti: the software could do with optimising :)
Jan 15 21:06:03 <Stephmw> basti: but the hardware is fine
Jan 15 21:06:08 <_ASK> yeah, i noticed...
Jan 15 21:06:19 <Melkman> basti: but is almost twice as expensive as te neo
Jan 15 21:06:20 <_ASK> can i send a formal request to FIC to build a damn treo clone?
Jan 15 21:06:39 <Stephmw> Melkman: they probably got that from TheRegister... and *they* plucked it from some random arse walking by
Jan 15 21:07:02 <Melkman> Ah, pfew. Ws getting worried already
Jan 15 21:07:48 <stefan_schmidt> _ASK: heh, no idea about a formal request. There were already suggestions for a qwerty phone.
Jan 15 21:08:03 <buz> _ASK: sure
Jan 15 21:08:12 <buz> (i have my doubts if they will care but...)
Jan 15 21:08:16 <_ASK> ha
Jan 15 21:08:25 <buz> i would buy a vga qwerty wifi phone any seconds
Jan 15 21:08:26 <_ASK> i mean
Jan 15 21:08:33 <basti> but the neo doesn't have wifi 
Jan 15 21:08:38 <_ASK> what kind of idiot is in charge of the design teams anyway?
Jan 15 21:09:01 <_ASK> just when computers start having SD slots as standard
Jan 15 21:09:04 <_ASK> they switch to micro-sd
Jan 15 21:09:32 <_ASK> they switch to micro-sd and they don't add wifi
Jan 15 21:09:45 * stefan_schmidt is away. To many whining people here. Face it: Hardware for v1 is fix.
Jan 15 21:09:54 <marcellus> Idiot? Nice.
Jan 15 21:09:58 <buz> any ops here?
Jan 15 21:10:00 <benJIman> _ASK: wifi would be pointless on a phone, you'd have like 15mins use before the battery runs out
Jan 15 21:10:12 <_ASK> i had a tungsten c
Jan 15 21:10:15 <buz> actually no
Jan 15 21:10:19 <_ASK> and it was far from 15 minutes
Jan 15 21:10:25 <buz> friend of mine has a nokia e60
Jan 15 21:10:30 <buz> gorgeous screen, wifi works quite well
Jan 15 21:10:38 <basti> but u could use it as a voip phone 
Jan 15 21:10:41 <buz> (well reception isnt what one would hope, but it does work)
Jan 15 21:10:43 <_ASK> i mean, if SD is standard they should keep it that way
Jan 15 21:10:56 <buz> SD is NOT standard in mobile phone industry by any means
Jan 15 21:11:01 <benJIman> 3g would be more useful than wifi
Jan 15 21:11:03 <buz> microsd is fast approaching standard
Jan 15 21:11:08 <jthomas> if this phone is more geared to geeks and devs, should a desktop-linux-user steer clear?  Or would they have success with the phone too?  I am tryiong to determin if I should get one and if I should be promoting it to normal people...
Jan 15 21:11:09 <_ASK> it is standard across the board
Jan 15 21:11:22 <benJIman> jthomas: it won't have much software at launch.
Jan 15 21:11:26 <_ASK> it is used in most hand devices, computers, digital cameras and such
Jan 15 21:11:32 <buz> but NOT in phones
Jan 15 21:11:36 <buz> guess why
Jan 15 21:11:48 <buz> there is hardly ANY phone with SD in it
Jan 15 21:11:51 <marcellus> I can find open wifi networks free of charge - not so with 3G.
Jan 15 21:11:51 <Stephmw> jthomas: I'd say it's a little early for regular users
Jan 15 21:11:58 <buz> (yeah i know you're trolling, never mind)
Jan 15 21:12:13 <Stephmw> jthomas: esp ones used to Nokia usability, or java games, etc
Jan 15 21:12:23 <_ASK> wifi means not only browsing trough internet, but also sharing data in your network
Jan 15 21:12:41 <buz> so does bluetooth PAN
Jan 15 21:12:45 <_ASK> i have a server running 24/7 on my home, where i store most of my files
Jan 15 21:13:00 <jthomas> hmmm... would there be enough apt-get updates to make it usable within a month or so?  or might it still be too wild?
Jan 15 21:13:00 <_ASK> so i don't have to carry a copy in each laptop and hand device i have
Jan 15 21:13:34 <Stephmw> jthomas: problem is, regular users expect full integration
Jan 15 21:13:53 <Stephmw> jthomas: apt-gettable stuff is unlikely to be tailored for mobile devices in the first iteration
Jan 15 21:14:26 <_ASK> i have  4 laptops, one desktop and two treos on my home, it's really a pain in the ass to coordinate it all
Jan 15 21:14:26 <jthomas> lol...  well i guess there will be some youtube videos of this when its released and i can guess at the usability from there...
Jan 15 21:14:38 <buz> WTF does one have 4 laptops
Jan 15 21:14:48 <_ASK> i have two
Jan 15 21:14:59 <Stephmw> buz: gadgeturbation :)
Jan 15 21:14:59 <_ASK> one dell precision m70, one thinkpad t41p
Jan 15 21:15:03 <jthomas> buz sometimes life demands it ;)
Jan 15 21:15:08 <_ASK> i don't take out the m70 because it's too large
Jan 15 21:15:11 <Stephmw> buz: ... which is why I'll be getting a neo as well
Jan 15 21:15:28 <_ASK> my sister has a thinkpad 600x, my mom a T43
Jan 15 21:15:29 <jthomas> Stephmw: that was my home, too
Jan 15 21:15:32 <buz> i weaned myself of gadget addiction
Jan 15 21:15:35 <buz> just to expensive
Jan 15 21:15:39 <jthomas> sorry, that was my HOPE, too
Jan 15 21:16:06 <marcellus> My Samsung Z500 has micro-SD (trans flash).
Jan 15 21:16:07 <_ASK> i have to keep it all runing
Jan 15 21:16:16 <Stephmw> jthomas: you'll probably do fine if you survive the daily desktop-linux usability hiccups
Jan 15 21:16:25 <_ASK> just imagine my frustration about not having WIFI on the treo.
Jan 15 21:16:34 <jthomas> yeah i can do THAT, there aren't many these days...
Jan 15 21:16:34 <Stephmw> jthomas: regular users are different :)
Jan 15 21:16:38 <jthomas> lol
Jan 15 21:16:39 <kabturek> soon-my moto e2 will have SD ;)
Jan 15 21:16:45 <Stephmw> jthomas: we're 'special'
Jan 15 21:17:11 <jthomas> hmm i tend to pretend that we're not, and that they could be good too if they opened their eyes a bit...
Jan 15 21:17:28 <_ASK> with SD you can take out the card from the camera, plug it on the handheld and transfer it over WIFI to the server
Jan 15 21:17:36 <_ASK> but... that's theorically speaking.
Jan 15 21:17:51 <marcellus> _ASK: get an adapter then
Jan 15 21:18:06 <_ASK> treo doesn't work with SDIO WIFI
Jan 15 21:18:15 <Stephmw> jthomas: wrong end of the usability equation :)
Jan 15 21:18:20 <jthomas> if the phone comes with Dialing and SMS built in, but little else, then *some* progs must be apt-gettable, right?  within a few weeks at least?
Jan 15 21:18:49 <Stephmw> jthomas: if it's not usable by some dumb twit... either it's the wrong function (why is he even looking at it, hide it) or it's not simple enough
Jan 15 21:19:00 <_ASK> besides, using the SDIO card denies you to use the SD slot.
Jan 15 21:19:21 <kabturek> _ASK, you can have an adaptor to put microSD cards in it and act like an SD card
Jan 15 21:19:55 <buz> in fact, microsd cards generally SHIP with one of those
Jan 15 21:21:15 <Melkman> yup, put adapter and microsd in camera, take shots, tak out microsd and put it in the phone... no problem
Jan 15 21:22:15 * Melkman thinks anyone who buys normal SD these days is doing a serious desinvestment.
Jan 15 21:22:18 <_ASK> microsd is not below the battery?
Jan 15 21:22:24 <_ASK> under
Jan 15 21:22:45 <Stephmw> Melkman: normal sd --> digital cameras
Jan 15 21:23:09 <_ASK> nah
Jan 15 21:23:09 <buz> thats why you put an adapter into it ;)
Jan 15 21:23:25 <_ASK> there is minisd, microsd and god knows what else
Jan 15 21:23:46 <Stephmw> buz: naw, don't think you'll find 133x microsd
Jan 15 21:23:52 <_ASK> have an SD and you have access to all
Jan 15 21:24:11 <_ASK> besides, SD goes up to like 8GB right now
Jan 15 21:24:15 <_ASK> and MSD like 1GB
Jan 15 21:24:19 <buz> no, it does not
Jan 15 21:24:23 <buz> SD goes to 2G
Jan 15 21:24:27 <_ASK> 8
Jan 15 21:24:31 <_ASK> i've seen them
Jan 15 21:24:32 <buz> SDHC maybe
Jan 15 21:24:41 * greentux notice that 10 days before fosdem is GSMcongress, so the moko will be the star there...
Jan 15 21:24:51 <buz> Stephmw: corsair makes 120X micros
Jan 15 21:24:52 <buz> d
Jan 15 21:25:11 <_ASK> second, how good is to have 133 or whatever fancy x number
Jan 15 21:25:12 <kabturek> i just want the damn phone :D
Jan 15 21:25:15 <_ASK> if the phone is usb 1.1
Jan 15 21:25:35 <Stephmw> buz: that's interesting... how does sticking it into an sd adapter affect the speed
Jan 15 21:25:49 <buz> i'd guess not at all
Jan 15 21:25:53 <buz> AFAIK those adapters are passive?
Jan 15 21:26:00 <Stephmw> no idea ;)
Jan 15 21:26:03 <_ASK> i think so
Jan 15 21:26:10 <Melkman> Stephmw: If I look at my adapter it is purely mechanical
Jan 15 21:26:12 <Stephmw> my camera takes CF cards
Jan 15 21:26:13 <_ASK> just a strech on physical dimensions
Jan 15 21:26:25 <Stephmw> micro-sd are so easy to lose
Jan 15 21:26:31 <_ASK> true that
Jan 15 21:26:42 <_ASK> even SD are
Jan 15 21:27:14 <ciastek> k in OpenMoko stands for KDE? :)
Jan 15 21:27:16 <buz> Stephmw: generally you dont take them out of their devices
Jan 15 21:27:26 <Melkman> Hmm, they should put bluetooth in camera's...
Jan 15 21:27:40 <_ASK> i bought a laptop on eBay some time ago and the seller forgot a 1GB SD on the package; when i called back he said "well, what's one going to do, consider it a gift..."
Jan 15 21:28:03 <Stephmw> :)
Jan 15 21:28:44 <_ASK> USB 2.0 is a must for god sake
Jan 15 21:29:02 <ciastek> but chip doesnt suppot usb2
Jan 15 21:29:06 <basti> isn't it gtk based?
Jan 15 21:29:10 <_ASK> which chip?
Jan 15 21:29:13 <ciastek> (dont ask me what chip ;) )
Jan 15 21:29:17 <_ASK> oh :P
Jan 15 21:29:20 <cbpage> the samsung thingie.
Jan 15 21:29:26 <cbpage> the new samsung chip isn't in full production yet
Jan 15 21:29:28 <buz> S3C2410
Jan 15 21:29:28 <_ASK> que chafa.
Jan 15 21:31:27 <Melkman> I don't think USB2 is that big of a miss. The phone only got 64MB of flash. It will take about a minute to transfer that.
Jan 15 21:31:45 <Sencer> wie jetzt?
Jan 15 21:31:51 <cbpage> yeah but who isn't going to stuff a 1gb in their phone?
Jan 15 21:32:01 <cbpage> ;)
Jan 15 21:32:04 <_ASK> it is for transfering data to and from the SD card...
Jan 15 21:32:13 <_ASK> warum?
Jan 15 21:32:14 <cbpage> if there was usb2 you could also do some snappy VNC'ing
Jan 15 21:33:11 <buz> 12mbit is enough for vnc
Jan 15 21:33:12 <Melkman> Err, I can do snappy VNC-ing over 10Mbps ethernet with a lot bigger screens....
Jan 15 21:33:27 <kabturek> 2gb is a must in my phone ;)
Jan 15 21:33:43 <_ASK> USB2: check, SD instead of MSD: check, qwerty keyboard: check; wifi: check
Jan 15 21:33:58 <_ASK> it's a large phone for god sake.
Jan 15 21:34:07 <meyerm> Hi. Does anybody know if the accu in the phone is easily exchangeable and in some standard format?
Jan 15 21:34:14 <_ASK> they can do that and still be early to dinner
Jan 15 21:35:03 <Melkman> _ASK: I had a HP iPaq hw6917 with all the features you name. Ditched it because it wouldn't even last a day with my use.
Jan 15 21:35:18 <Melkman> plus I can't get used to windows mobile
Jan 15 21:35:45 <_ASK> nah, because no windows phone has VGA screen
Jan 15 21:35:54 <_ASK> and none can be customized
Jan 15 21:36:02 <cbpage> usb 1.1 is more like 6Mb irl... but point
Jan 15 21:36:29 <_ASK> i know programming, assembler and such, is just that i no longer spend my time on it
Jan 15 21:37:00 <_ASK> having a phone that you can easily write code for, sounds tempting.
Jan 15 21:38:25 <_ASK> are you russian Melkman?
Jan 15 21:38:38 <Melkman> nope, dutch.
Jan 15 21:52:15 <basti> i just read that there will be a neo version with wifi. Is that true?
Jan 15 21:53:09 <mjr> probably _at some point in the far-off future_
Jan 15 21:55:39 <basti> but there is nothing official?
Jan 15 21:56:16 <buz> no
Jan 15 21:58:11 <basti> thank u 
Jan 15 21:58:17 <basti> and good bye
Jan 15 21:58:41 <kabturek> probably there will be even a version that will suit _ASK ;)
Jan 15 21:58:51 <_ASK> i hope
Jan 15 21:59:09 <_ASK> i do not think what i want is that off
Jan 15 22:00:20 <kabturek> yeah but i think that its too much for the first one
Jan 15 22:01:09 <Stephmw> kabturek: there's a current request for it to have this V12 under the hood, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/
Jan 15 22:01:23 <Stephmw> kabturek: we hope its inclusion will make everyone happy
Jan 15 22:02:38 <kabturek> hehe  i will wait for v2 of the v12 ;)
Jan 15 22:15:01 <_ASK> are you interested in engines?
Jan 15 22:15:12 <_ASK> this is mine
Jan 15 22:15:14 <_ASK> http://mikemex.t35.com/anim.gif
Jan 15 22:27:52 <xkr47> hope the moko doesn't panic as often as my workstation seems to do :P
Jan 15 22:29:38 <_ASK> mmm
Jan 15 22:29:46 <_ASK> maybe it's smaller than what i thought
Jan 15 22:29:48 <_ASK> http://solsie.com/first-28-vga-screen-windows-mobile-device-sharp-w-zero3-es/
Jan 15 22:29:58 <_ASK> this one uses the same screen and looks much bigger
Jan 15 22:34:23 <xkr47> wow, it took 2 days to subscribe to the community mailing list
Jan 15 22:34:57 <l4rs> _ASK what is smaller than you thought? the neo or the screen?
Jan 15 22:35:13 <_ASK> the openmoko phone
Jan 15 22:37:28 <l4rs> hm... but it has only 1cm less height... maybe the very round edges let you think so...
Jan 15 22:41:04 <_ASK> yeah, bigger than the treo
Jan 15 22:42:58 <_ASK> and yeah, this is mostly to make people do the dirty job for them
Jan 15 22:43:05 <_ASK> it doesn't even has a camera
Jan 15 22:44:48 <_ASK> once they have the free software to run it, they will probably release a consumer phone
Jan 15 22:45:19 <marcellus> If you don't want to do their "dirty job" then don't.
Jan 15 22:47:12 <_ASK> if they are going to make people to work for them, they should at least pay attention to what people requests...
Jan 15 22:47:35 <_ASK> palm, for example, is literally frozen now
Jan 15 22:47:52 <_ASK> the newer treos are almost identical to the ones released almost three years ago
Jan 15 22:48:21 <_ASK> they increased RAM, ROM and such, but those are minor upgrades
Jan 15 22:48:33 <_ASK> they still don't add WIFI for example
Jan 15 22:48:35 <marcellus> Still you want a Treo clone.
Jan 15 22:48:38 <xorAxAx> wasnt there a treo with win ce? or was it a normal palm device?
Jan 15 22:48:48 <_ASK> not treo clone
Jan 15 22:48:56 <_ASK> but treo format is quite good
Jan 15 22:49:06 <_ASK> you can use the phone one handed
Jan 15 22:49:20 <_ASK> it has keyboard, 5 way control and shortcut keys
Jan 15 22:49:34 <xkr47> "openmoko requires three hands to operate"
Jan 15 22:49:40 <_ASK> it is small enough to carry in the pocket yet it does all the PDA stuff
Jan 15 22:50:11 <_ASK> how are you going to type text?
Jan 15 22:50:20 <_ASK> finger the screen all the way?
Jan 15 22:50:25 * xkr47 used to have a palm in his pocket
Jan 15 22:50:39 <xkr47> it had a stylus but the software I made could be operated with the thumb
Jan 15 22:50:54 <xkr47> it was a hit
Jan 15 22:50:55 <xkr47> :)
Jan 15 22:51:09 <xkr47> I'm sure considering porting it to the bigger screen format
Jan 15 22:51:12 <_ASK> yeah, and the size neccesary to handle with fingers made it to occupy all the screen
Jan 15 22:51:19 <xkr47> I get nine pixels instead of 1 on moko :)
Jan 15 22:51:36 <xkr47> hmh ?
Jan 15 22:51:53 <_ASK> or how you avoid pressing the neighbor keys?
Jan 15 22:51:58 <xkr47> no, it was more like "if you start dragging here, you get this kind of response
Jan 15 22:52:16 <_ASK> text, you want to type simple text
Jan 15 22:52:22 <xkr47> yeah yeah
Jan 15 22:52:23 <_ASK> a, b, c and such
Jan 15 22:52:36 * xkr47 has left the discussion [not qualified]
Jan 15 22:53:29 <marcellus> Using the screen seems to work just fine on the iPhone.
Jan 15 22:53:47 <_ASK> how big is the screen of the iphone?
Jan 15 22:54:53 <xkr47> I would guess the pixel size is roughly the same, only slightly bigger resolution
Jan 15 22:55:01 <xkr47> but hey, I'm only guessing :)
Jan 15 22:55:46 <_ASK> i think the screen on the iphone is much larger
Jan 15 22:56:04 <marcellus> It is, but with less resolution.
Jan 15 22:57:29 <_ASK> is real world size and not resolution what makes an onscreen keyboard to be usable with fingers...
Jan 15 22:57:43 <_ASK> otherwise you have to use a stylus
Jan 15 22:57:55 <_ASK> unless you can move the stylus with the force of your mind
Jan 15 22:58:07 <_ASK> you have to use the other hand...
Jan 15 22:58:18 <marcellus> the horror
Jan 15 22:58:51 <_ASK> the damn treo has four diminute buttons on bottom
Jan 15 22:59:06 <_ASK> that allows you to change between day, week and month in the calendar
Jan 15 22:59:28 <_ASK> try to switch them using the fingers and you'll understand why i am not fond of on screen keyboards
Jan 15 23:00:45 <l4rs> you are not forced to buy the neo ;) :p
Jan 15 23:01:25 <_ASK> yeah, but that doesn't prevent me for throwing crap at it hahahahaha
Jan 15 23:02:05 <_ASK> i want a decent phone, is that too much to ask? all phones lack something, like if they did it on purpose
Jan 15 23:02:28 <stefan_schmidt> Ah, 2 hours later and still the same troll.
Jan 15 23:02:37 <_ASK> i'm a troll?
Jan 15 23:02:40 <stefan_schmidt> _ASK: Nobody stops you building your own phone.
Jan 15 23:02:46 <stefan_schmidt> night all.
Jan 15 23:03:51 <l4rs> _ASK, yeah you're right. even the neo is not perfect... ;) but i think it's an step in the right direction
Jan 15 23:04:22 <_ASK> true that
Jan 15 23:04:41 <cbpage> i could see a simpler openmoko phone with a small screen and a standard keypad
Jan 15 23:04:51 <cbpage> but there's less "oh, wow" in that which is bad for a first product ;)
Jan 15 23:05:04 <cbpage> nothing's had a vga screen before :D
Jan 15 23:05:38 <_ASK> heck, i complain because i do not own a fucking factory, otherwise i would build my own phone.
Jan 15 23:06:44 <cbpage> i wonder if you could put pure gsm voice codec data over bluetooth
Jan 15 23:06:52 <cbpage> and then have it encoded/decoded by a lapto
Jan 15 23:06:53 <cbpage> p
Jan 15 23:07:06 <l4rs> it would be great if we could build our own phones, or at least choose the parts we want to be inclued. but i think it will take some time towards this... and it will be more expensive...
Jan 15 23:07:14 <cbpage> then you could make the phone itself almost disappear - it would just be a bluetooth gsm device
Jan 15 23:07:15 <cbpage> yeah
Jan 15 23:07:24 <cbpage> also remember fcc stuffs.
Jan 15 23:07:28 <marcellus> You don't need a factory. Get your soldering iron and go to work on the components.
Jan 15 23:07:30 <cbpage> (and equiv in other countries)
Jan 15 23:08:06 <noidd> So, 12 mins to the openmoko announcement?
Jan 15 23:08:06 <noidd> :-)
Jan 15 23:08:21 * noidd redefines impatience
Jan 15 23:08:21 <benJIman> what anouncement?
Jan 15 23:08:47 <marcellus> That Britney Spears will be the Neo1973 spokesperson.
Jan 15 23:08:51 <xkr47> mickey|party, said he'd give some update on tuesday
Jan 15 23:09:02 <xkr47> s/,//
Jan 15 23:09:03 <apt> xkr47 meant: mickey|party said he'd give some update on tuesday
Jan 15 23:09:03 <ozamosi> benJIman: we don't know, but it's supposed to be cool :)
Jan 15 23:09:16 <cbpage> lol
Jan 15 23:09:16 <benJIman> Where was the announcement announced?
Jan 15 23:09:23 <xkr47> apt, if you know sed, I already fixed that  :)
Jan 15 23:09:35 <xkr47> benJIman, live @ irc!
Jan 15 23:09:38 <noidd> its an announcement of a comming announcement :-D
Jan 15 23:09:50 <kabturek> hmm as far as i see he is on a party :)
Jan 15 23:10:05 <xkr47> nicks can be deceitful.. ;-)
Jan 15 23:10:16 <kabturek> i herad about those .. they drink alcohol there and stuff ...
Jan 15 23:10:26 <kabturek> s/herad/heard
Jan 15 23:10:26 <marcellus> He will come back announcing that the Neo isn't beer resistant.
Jan 15 23:10:48 <kabturek> it isnt ? damn :> got to make my own phone then ;)
Jan 15 23:12:24 <cbpage> lol
Jan 15 23:14:03 <cbpage> the missing feature i most want to see is edge and perhaps 3g data [that said i'll def. be buying it even with just gprs]
Jan 15 23:14:13 <benJIman> Isn't edge obsolete?
Jan 15 23:14:30 <leventhal> not in Canada
Jan 15 23:14:48 <meyerm> benJIman: And also not in Germany :)
Jan 15 23:14:49 <ozamosi> well... Around here, edge was rolled out after 3g, so it's actually newer to us consumers :)
Jan 15 23:14:59 <xkr47> the missing feature I want to see is a foldable 30" touchscreen!1!
Jan 15 23:15:22 <xkr47> trolled out after 3g
Jan 15 23:17:21 <cbpage> how bout one of those laser dlp projectors? ;)
Jan 15 23:17:25 <meyerm> EDGE is also the only feature I'm really missing... :-/
Jan 15 23:17:41 <cbpage> seriously the second feature i'd want is a faster cpu with media+2d acceleration so it'll play videos good
Jan 15 23:17:45 <cbpage> then maybe a full-sd slot on top
Jan 15 23:18:04 <cbpage> put all those in and i'll snag the second openmoko phone too ;)
Jan 15 23:19:01 <ozamosi> cbpage: what about shrinking the phone, making the screen bigger? :)
Jan 15 23:19:17 <cbpage> humm - a 4" 854x480 screen would rock too
Jan 15 23:19:53 <cbpage> maybe 5" - esp if h264 480p playback would work
Jan 15 23:26:52 * xkr47 would like a programmable dsp coprocessor
Jan 15 23:28:49 <noidd> heh, a mini-projector would rock - truely
Jan 15 23:28:50 <meyerm> Subscribung to the mailinglists is not possible <whimper>
Jan 15 23:29:50 <xkr47> yeah, I'd love to read my smses from the wall of a public transportation too!
Jan 15 23:30:21 <xkr47> better yet, I'd join the giggle and laughter from fellow passengers ;-)
Jan 15 23:30:34 <spikebik1> crap I thought there was some news today
Jan 15 23:36:59 <marcellus> meyerm: it isn't?
Jan 15 23:37:57 <kabturek> so
Jan 15 23:38:07 <meyerm> marcellus: mailman return a "bug" when I try to subscribe.
Jan 15 23:38:08 <kabturek> will it support full hd ?;)
Jan 15 23:38:38 <meyerm> marcellus: When confirming my subscription
Jan 15 23:40:57 <Zer0Her0> i keep hearing rumors of an announcement, what was supposed to be announced?
Jan 15 23:42:52 <kabturek> Zer0Her0, if anyone knew - what would be the purpose of the announcement ? ;)
Jan 15 23:43:35 <Zer0Her0> true, but was it FIC or who that's supposed to announce stuff
Jan 15 23:43:45 <Zer0Her0> :-P
Jan 15 23:58:42 <rwhitby> I'm formally announcing that I have nothing to announce.
Jan 15 23:59:33 <cbpage> heh
Jan 16 00:01:43 <marcellus> rwhitby: when do you expect nothing to be released?
Jan 16 00:01:51 <rwhitby> marcellus: immediately
Jan 16 00:02:11 <rwhitby> look, I was correct!
Jan 16 00:04:12 <kabturek> "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" (subscribing to lists)
Jan 16 00:31:46 <parag0n> site just died :/
Jan 16 00:32:46 <Zer0Her0> which site?
Jan 16 00:37:40 <ozamosi> To many people reloading it to get to see the rumored anouncement first :)
Jan 16 00:39:20 <Zer0Her0> haha
Jan 16 00:39:37 <libervisco> did OpenMoko exist before Apple iPhone?
Jan 16 00:40:00 <libervisco> I'd just like to know whether Apple can rightfully claim to have reinvented the phone or not :)
Jan 16 00:40:23 * libervisco is writing a story about it
Jan 16 00:40:38 <libervisco> favoring OpenMoko
Jan 16 00:41:24 <Zer0Her0> well Apple has reinvented reinventing
Jan 16 00:41:28 <Zer0Her0> so they can reinvent ANYTHING
Jan 16 00:42:04 <libervisco> heh 
Jan 16 00:42:16 <kabturek> libervisco, how long is before ?
Jan 16 00:42:54 <libervisco> well OpenMoko surfaced about the same time Apple iPhone did so I'm not sure..
Jan 16 00:43:11 <libervisco> who was the first with the idea of such a multifunctional phone?
Jan 16 00:43:28 <Sketch> openmoko surfaced a few months ago
Jan 16 00:43:37 <kabturek> libervisco, but what date are we talking about ? the date of stevie showing the phone ?
Jan 16 00:44:22 <libervisco> kabturek, yeah, though there was talk of it long before..
Jan 16 00:44:52 <libervisco> hm but I guess there is one thing Apple didn't invent, open hardware based phone :)
Jan 16 00:45:03 <kabturek> the press releases with the mockups are from 2006.11.7
Jan 16 00:45:07 <libervisco> with Linux running it and ability to extend it with free applications :)
Jan 16 00:45:11 <mjr> well, preliminary neo press images have been there since last autumn. Probably been pretty much coinciding development though
Jan 16 00:45:13 <kabturek> http://openmoko.com/press/index.html
Jan 16 00:45:45 <libervisco> ok, thanks
Jan 16 01:07:41 <PirateHead> libervisco, still around?
Jan 16 01:09:18 <libervisco> yeah, writing :)
Jan 16 01:10:43 <parag0n> make sure to link us when you're finished
Jan 16 01:10:58 <libervisco> parag0n, sure
Jan 16 01:27:48 <libervisco> Is OpenMoko already available for sale somewhere?
Jan 16 01:29:21 <jjazz> libervisco: read the topic
Jan 16 01:29:28 <jjazz> libervisco: Not on sale yet
Jan 16 01:29:47 <jjazz> libervisco: Not even preorders yet
Jan 16 01:29:47 <libervisco> oh sorry
Jan 16 01:29:49 <jjazz> np
Jan 16 01:29:50 <libervisco> thx
Jan 16 01:29:58 <jjazz> Just a good source of info.
Jan 16 01:33:14 <libervisco> ok here is it http://www.libervis.com/article/forget_iphone_hail_openmoko_the_true_revolution :)
Jan 16 01:33:26 <libervisco> not very big, but doesn't have to be
Jan 16 01:37:51 <parag0n> i keep looking at pictures of the neo1973, and whimpering because i want one so much :/
Jan 16 01:38:20 <libervisco> hehe
Jan 16 01:38:34 <libervisco> I'll be buying one as soon as it is available here :)
Jan 16 01:38:40 <libervisco> if the price is not *too* high
Jan 16 01:39:52 <parag0n> well, $350 pits it at around £200 for me, which is pretty cheap for such a good looking phone
Jan 16 01:40:12 <parag0n> especially when my palm TX cost me 125, and has no phone features at all
Jan 16 01:40:16 <ozamosi> I wonder how much shipping from asia would cost... Sounds expensive :)
Jan 16 01:41:18 <libervisco> indeed, it's not too much..
Jan 16 01:41:50 <libervisco> there are even more expensive ordinary mobile phones today that don't go near the functionality of this
Jan 16 01:42:04 <parag0n> considering my last phone, samsung e900 would have cost ~250 if i hadn't got it on contract
Jan 16 01:42:23 <parag0n> and thats justa normal slide phone
Jan 16 02:12:53 <spikebik1> booo
Jan 16 02:13:06 <spikebik1> boo, news article says march 8-(
Jan 16 02:13:39 <ciastek> where? what?
Jan 16 02:23:34 <summatusmentis> it's gonna be GSM right? no CDMA?
Jan 16 02:28:10 <noidd> what news article?
Jan 16 02:29:26 <jjazz> libervisco: I think your article misses a chance to be really useful
Jan 16 02:29:40 <jjazz> libervisco: A side-by-side spec and feature comparison, would be awesome.
Jan 16 02:34:18 <det> jjazz, comparison of what?
Jan 16 02:34:47 <jjazz> det: He wrote a piece about why the Neo beats the iPhone.
Jan 16 02:34:48 <summatusmentis> det: iPhone vs. Neo1973 I think
Jan 16 02:34:58 <det> Oh, I see.
Jan 16 02:35:05 <det> I think I read a comparison on the wiki.
Jan 16 02:35:18 <jjazz> det: Ah, I'll go take a look.  Thanks.
Jan 16 02:35:26 <libervisco> jjazz, yes, but the whole point is that the reason OpenMoko really beats iPhone doesn't lie in its current tehnical specification, but it being *open*
Jan 16 02:35:41 <libervisco> in that sense, specs are much irrelevant
Jan 16 02:35:54 <det> Great point.
Jan 16 02:36:02 <jjazz> libervisco: Yes, I agree.  But specs are important too, and comparing them is a niche that needs filling.
Jan 16 02:36:21 <jjazz> Specs can't be irrelevant.  They're a huge part of the equation for most people.
Jan 16 02:36:41 <jjazz> I would never buy a closed device, but I still want to know how my open device stacks up against the state of the art.
Jan 16 02:36:54 <vitaminmoo> I am looking forward to the possibility of a teeny usb keyboard (with batteries in it) so I can use the openmoko as a 640x480 console to ssh around with >:)
Jan 16 02:37:21 <libervisco> jjazz, I agree.. I'm just not sure the comparison would fit there.. 
Jan 16 02:37:30 <libervisco> is there even enough info to do it?
Jan 16 02:37:55 <jjazz> libervisco: I don't know, which is why I was hoping you'd do the work for me. :P
Jan 16 02:38:05 <libervisco> hehe :)
Jan 16 02:38:17 * libervisco takes a look at the specs table of both..
Jan 16 02:39:08 <jjazz> det: Do you have a link to the wiki?
Jan 16 02:41:20 <lukas> Hey, are nexels GSM?
Jan 16 02:41:37 * leventhal goes to deliver coffee to the roommate who's camping out for the apartment's supply of Burning Crusade
Jan 16 02:42:20 <Zer0Her0> haha
Jan 16 02:42:26 <ciastek> btw vitaminmoo, can i use bluetooth keyboard with neo?
Jan 16 02:43:00 <Zer0Her0> i really don't understand this time in mass production how we still can't meet demand
Jan 16 02:43:11 <jjazz> lukas: Some nextel phones contain GSM radios, but nextel's network isn't gsm.
Jan 16 02:47:07 <jjazz> libervisco: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone has the table I was looking for
Jan 16 02:47:32 <libervisco> oh
Jan 16 02:47:43 <libervisco> I just started doing it.. I guess I'll just link to it then :)
Jan 16 02:47:44 <libervisco> thanks
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 16 02:59:57 2007