**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 24 02:59:58 2007 Jan 24 03:44:49 counter Jan 24 03:44:49 2 weeks, 3 days for source availability and devices for selected developers; 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers; 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market Jan 24 03:45:00 mailing list now less busy, not anymore 100 mails waiting ;-) Jan 24 04:29:41 just wanted to say cheers and good luck, let's do this :) Jan 24 05:45:26 noidd: I think routing from microphone to GSM subsystem is done in software, so you can do whatever you want between them Jan 24 05:59:45 Morning Jan 24 06:00:03 CM: morning Jan 24 07:37:19 * rwhitby successfully connects to the Treo650 using mokoslug 1.0-alpha, and nslu2, and a usb bluetooth adapter. Jan 24 07:38:20 counter Jan 24 07:38:20 2 weeks, 3 days for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market (2007-09-11) Jan 24 07:38:44 rwhitby: can one abuse a nslu as wlan gateway? Jan 24 07:38:50 (with a wifi stick, obviously Jan 24 07:40:17 buz: we're working on getting zd1211 sticks to operate. Jan 24 07:41:10 mhh looking at it i might get a asus router with usb2 instead Jan 24 07:41:36 buz: and run openwrt on it? Jan 24 07:41:43 for example Jan 24 07:41:52 i now run openwrt on a wrt54 Jan 24 07:41:54 that works just fine Jan 24 07:42:18 with a bluetooth stick? not sure if they have support for them yet (I could easily be wrong) Jan 24 07:42:18 or maybe i'll build a miniitx box more space, more cpu and lot more ram Jan 24 07:42:34 shouldnt be very hard to get bluetooth runnnig Jan 24 07:43:24 also looking at that new linksys dual hd NAS Jan 24 07:43:41 yeah, I want someone to buy me one of those to play with. Jan 24 07:43:56 not yet shipping are they? Jan 24 07:46:21 what id like most is a 4sata 1gige embedded board at a sane price but that doesnt seem to exist Jan 24 07:47:31 anyway gotta go Jan 24 08:01:11 hi there. Jan 24 08:01:29 morning Jan 24 08:24:47 any news about the developer launch? Jan 24 08:25:12 counter Jan 24 08:25:12 2 weeks, 3 days for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market (2007-09-11) Jan 24 08:25:23 :) Jan 24 08:25:55 hrm, that counter is boring, where are the minutes and seconds? :) Jan 24 08:27:03 Hehe.. I think days is too detailed. ;) Feb 11th is a sunday, and March 11th too Jan 24 08:31:03 morning Jan 24 08:52:21 counter Jan 24 08:52:21 2 weeks, 3 days 12:36:55 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market (2007-09-11) Jan 24 08:52:41 counter Jan 24 08:52:41 2 weeks, 3 days 12:36:35 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market (2007-09-11) Jan 24 08:52:59 * XorA chuckles Jan 24 08:53:21 now its there without using too much space ;-) Jan 24 08:53:49 anyway, its EET ;-) Jan 24 08:54:30 el Jan 24 08:54:30 el Jan 24 08:54:42 who select developers? Jan 24 08:55:33 coreteam Jan 24 08:56:21 ah, ok Jan 24 08:56:38 so just openmoko internal developers Jan 24 08:56:42 yes Jan 24 08:56:53 pay mickeyl $$$$$$$$$$ :-) Jan 24 08:57:23 btw, i'm willing to contact some developer to ask if someone in openmoko is involved in EU 7th FP... Jan 24 08:57:58 bedboi: I failed to grep that last bit Jan 24 08:58:35 http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/home_en.html Jan 24 08:58:55 * aloril wonders which one will happen first: counter claiming source is released or actual source release Jan 24 08:59:34 ehehe Jan 24 09:15:30 bedboi: How are you related to that fp7 thing? Jan 24 09:16:46 bedboi: in which project exactly? Jan 24 09:16:54 FP7 is large :) Jan 24 09:17:48 dropping in to check what I can do for and with openmoko Jan 24 09:18:26 xorAxAx: Wow, 32 billion Euros is a lot.. Jan 24 09:18:40 what_nick_: Welcome :) Jan 24 09:19:01 yeah, huge is a better term Jan 24 09:19:19 I have worked on RealTek Soc's and Embedded linux on them Jan 24 09:19:29 COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES - Budget: ? 9.1 billion (2007 - 2013) Jan 24 09:20:32 I went to uni with mithro from open embedded Jan 24 09:20:55 what_nick_: It's not much to see yet when it comes to code. It's not released yet, but will be in a few weeks Jan 24 09:21:04 Good if you know openembedded :) Jan 24 09:21:27 ya ... Jan 24 09:21:38 okay with uClinux etc as well so .. Jan 24 09:21:56 lets see ... Jan 24 09:22:13 Questions regarding AGPS .. Jan 24 09:22:14 The only "real devs" right now, afaik, is mickeyl and LaF0rge Jan 24 09:22:31 and koen Jan 24 09:22:52 aloril: is he on the openmoko team already? :) Jan 24 09:22:54 It will require support from the carrier ? Jan 24 09:23:23 CM: isn't koen something like head of openembedded which openmoko is based on? Jan 24 09:23:38 aloril: thats primarily irrelevant :) Jan 24 09:23:39 what_nick_: not really, just use unlocked SIM Jan 24 09:24:46 what_nick_: I've been thinking about that too. Don't know for sure how it works. Maybe all carriers support it by default? Jan 24 09:25:09 ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS Jan 24 09:25:34 no AGPS requires base stations to have support for Assitanse Jan 24 09:25:46 *Assitance even Jan 24 09:26:09 Assisted GPS describes a system where outside sources, such as an assistance server (Mobile Location Server) via a network, help a GPS Jan 24 09:26:11 ... Jan 24 09:26:59 AGPS chips are toned down GPS chips with less processing power and depend on the base station to compute locations Jan 24 09:27:16 aloril: koen is one of OE devels Jan 24 09:27:32 aloril: but he is not openmoko devel (yet) Jan 24 09:27:41 Some mobile phones will accept converted data streams to compute a position themselves. Jan 24 09:27:57 aloril: I'm one of OE core developers but not openmoko one (yet) Jan 24 09:28:17 ok so it is possible to capture the stream from the AGPS chip and solve the location on the secondary processor on the phone Jan 24 09:28:27 but will take longer to lock on Jan 24 09:28:49 there area a number of OE developers here. Some nslu2-linux (also based on OE) developers too. Jan 24 09:28:51 anyway ... just checking if anyone was thinking along these lines Jan 24 09:29:01 hrw|work: OK Jan 24 09:29:38 what_nick_: It has, quite a lot I think. Mentioned both in the mailinglist and the unofficial wiki Jan 24 09:29:51 just to introduce myself my base project is Nasa Worldwind ... Jan 24 09:30:09 * what_nick_ goes to search mailing list Jan 24 09:30:12 what_nick_: I have seen speculations of replacing binary agps daemon with free one and no doubt it will happen at some point Jan 24 09:30:15 * rwhitby flashes the new mokoslug firmware distribution (based on OE) onto an IOMega NAS100d to see if it will also make a good companion server for the Neo ... Jan 24 09:31:03 rwhitby: how many OE powered devices you have?? Jan 24 09:31:51 hrw|work: 2 slugs (nslu2), 2 nas100d's, 1 fsg-3 (waiting on a serial cable for that before hacking it), and an Asus wl500g (which may run OE after the fsg-3 becomes the new internet gateway) Jan 24 09:31:54 what_nick_: agpsd being software it should be easy to capture input/output from it and reverse engineer meaning of raw data AGPS chip emits (and how its controlled) Jan 24 09:32:29 each of the slugs is a bluetooth to internet gateway (1 at home, 1 at work) for my Treo650, and will do the same for the Neo. Jan 24 09:32:45 i believe OE runs on some linksys wlan stuff as well Jan 24 09:33:10 aloril: yep Jan 24 09:33:26 but the SoC will need to solve the GPS position Jan 24 09:33:42 which is usually slower that using dedicated GPS hardware Jan 24 09:35:16 get authority from cell providers and network operators for Jan 24 09:35:17 AGPS to go through them Jan 24 09:35:18 (Note the "own" position fix for MS-A above: you could get Jan 24 09:35:22 between an operator Jan 24 09:35:22 and $$, a dangerous place to be!) Jan 24 09:35:26 from the mailing list Jan 24 09:35:28 i like that :) Jan 24 09:35:37 get between the operator and $$$ Jan 24 09:35:43 bad place to be :) Jan 24 09:35:56 sorry for the spammage :( Jan 24 09:35:58 eek Jan 24 09:47:40 * XorA needs more OE machine Jan 24 09:51:12 XorA: three are not enough? Jan 24 09:51:38 hrw|work: nah, they are all PDAs Jan 24 09:51:55 hrw|work: although one day maybe someone make full WRT router support Jan 24 09:52:54 hrw|work: my next device I need is something that can sit behind my HDTV and play stuff off my network Jan 24 09:52:57 XorA: wrt support need spending too much time Jan 24 09:53:06 XorA: dreambox? Jan 24 09:55:30 hrw|work: already got a satelite receiver Jan 24 09:56:52 XorA: http://www.ewayco.com/51-embedded-systems-100-PC-mini-ITX-low-cost/100-TU-low-cost-pc-thin-client-embedded-system.html can be probably a bit too slow? Jan 24 09:57:48 hrw|work: I was think http://mini-itx.com/store/?c=27 Jan 24 10:24:53 eeeps Sean looks like a total nerd :-) Jan 24 10:25:13 XorA: proper looking manager is good thing ;D Jan 24 10:26:23 hrw|work: he needs to grow a beard if he gonna mess with linux :-) Jan 24 10:27:06 XorA: beard you say... Jan 24 10:27:30 * XorA has seen the linux beardies :-) Jan 24 10:27:43 I stopped shaving at end of November and bought beard trimmer Jan 24 11:04:32 hi lrg Jan 24 11:04:44 hey greentux Jan 24 11:12:38 hard working these weeks lrg? Jan 24 11:23:01 yo, i heard about this project today from a friend. could any1 gimme some links that i could read more about the projects? Jan 24 11:23:14 rd_: in the topic Jan 24 11:23:34 im an experience linux kernel developer btw, wanna to see if i can help anything in the project Jan 24 11:23:45 dottedmag, check those links already Jan 24 11:23:58 is it the code avaiable to test? Jan 24 11:24:09 counter Jan 24 11:24:10 2 weeks, 3 days 10:05:05 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market (2007-09-11) Jan 24 11:25:37 so the source will be available on Feb 11? Jan 24 11:25:52 devs say so Jan 24 11:26:53 ic, so at this point, no any other information beside the wiki page & mail list archive? Jan 24 11:29:13 Nope, nothing significant at least Jan 24 11:29:47 That announcement in the topic is a good summary of what's going on Jan 24 11:31:02 i see, thanks CM Jan 24 11:35:47 greentux: very busy Jan 24 11:37:23 lrg: same here... soft winter... Jan 24 12:38:57 rd_: you can download openembedded though, its build on top of that Jan 24 12:43:58 is mono already ported to the openmoko ? i mean will mono run once openmoko ships or does it still require work ? i would like to port it if it's not already done :) Jan 24 12:44:56 i think it will need to be compiled to the platform Jan 24 12:45:04 Eblis: need to be added Jan 24 12:45:13 check the openembedded package selection Jan 24 12:45:49 Eblis: it's ported to the Maemo, and I know some others have talked about getting it working in openmoke too Jan 24 12:46:29 s/moke/moko/ Jan 24 12:46:30 CM meant: Eblis: it's ported to the Maemo, and I know some others have talked about getting it working in openmoko too Jan 24 12:47:37 mono was in openembedded, but was removed due to lack of maintanence Jan 24 12:52:06 it was obsolete version Jan 24 12:52:28 aha Jan 24 12:52:38 i was just browsing through openembedded and i noticed mono Jan 24 12:52:42 in one link Jan 24 12:52:56 but it was 1.0 i think Jan 24 12:53:23 i assume python is already available, no ? :) Jan 24 12:54:01 Eblis: we would love someone to make latest mono available Jan 24 12:54:13 Eblis: and yes python and perl are both in openembedded Jan 24 12:54:24 i'd love to have mono too :) Jan 24 12:55:32 Eblis: feel free to file patches to bugs.openembedded.org :-) Jan 24 12:55:32 and ruby Jan 24 12:55:42 we lack php but who cares? Jan 24 12:55:46 hrw|work: ruby working now? Jan 24 12:55:48 heh Jan 24 12:56:00 XorA: it builds Jan 24 12:59:36 i wonder what i wil do on a phone with ruby Jan 24 12:59:38 :) Jan 24 13:00:03 ruby on rails on rails Jan 24 13:00:39 * what_nick_ rails at the idea Jan 24 15:17:13 /show Jan 24 16:00:53 oops, forgot to be here Jan 24 16:07:04 Hello Jan 24 16:10:03 hey guys Jan 24 16:10:03 cheers lrg, good to see you here Jan 24 16:10:03 sup Jan 24 16:11:11 hey mickeyl Jan 24 16:11:12 mickeyl: do you have alsa working on neo already? Jan 24 16:11:51 hrw|work: playback is working Jan 24 16:12:38 heh Jan 24 16:12:51 guess by now we no longer bother to keep it a secret that you guys are involved, right? Jan 24 16:12:52 *g* Jan 24 16:12:55 * stefan_schmidt like to set a bet which company is doing audio work right now. ;) Jan 24 16:13:13 * XorA knows nooooothinnngggg Jan 24 16:13:16 lrg: record not yet? Jan 24 16:13:19 heh Jan 24 16:13:36 hrw|work: in progress atm, XorA is debugging Jan 24 16:13:38 * hrw|work does not know any developer which get phase0 phone Jan 24 16:13:45 hrw|work: you ask the wrong person Jan 24 16:13:45 * mickeyl formally announces Wolfson has a prototype and is doing ASoC work. Jan 24 16:14:18 how about video like corecodec will it work on a Neo Jan 24 16:15:03 or is the ARM not powerful enough to do 24fps video ??? Jan 24 16:15:16 hrw|work: congrats on your new job :) Jan 24 16:15:29 Matt_PI: s3c2410 @ 2xx MHz is slow Jan 24 16:15:36 Matt_PI: I have mplayer on s3c2410, I shall be testing Jan 24 16:15:39 _very_ slow Jan 24 16:15:40 Matt_PI: Not powerful enough. Think about 640x480 Jan 24 16:15:40 "slow" Jan 24 16:15:44 I'm sure it can play back video _of some quality_. Planning to do some testing when I get mine. Jan 24 16:15:52 it takes 22% cpu load to play mp3 :-( Jan 24 16:16:02 bummer Jan 24 16:16:06 ~lart Samsung Jan 24 16:16:06 * apt changes Samsung's permissions to 0777 and tells the world Jan 24 16:16:19 XorA: glue on a vfp :) Jan 24 16:16:24 * stefan_schmidt dreams about SoC for v2... Jan 24 16:16:48 stefan_schmidt: dual i.MX31? Jan 24 16:16:52 any cool news on the neo since saterday? Jan 24 16:17:08 it's been discontinued Jan 24 16:17:11 ;) Jan 24 16:17:32 hrw|work: Would be nice, but only dual core. :) Jan 24 16:29:00 ~lart penny stock spam Jan 24 16:29:05 * apt judo chops penny stock spam Jan 24 16:29:05 ~lart penny stock spam again Jan 24 16:29:05 * apt installs PocketPC on penny stock spam again's PDA Jan 24 16:29:14 ~lart openmoko users that can't google Jan 24 16:29:15 * apt beats the living hamstercrap out of openmoko users that can't google Jan 24 16:29:24 oops, that was a pleonasm Jan 24 16:30:20 Is there any video scaler in the chip? Jan 24 16:30:26 nope Jan 24 16:30:35 I.E. can you play 160*120 video scaled Jan 24 16:30:38 a 1:1 scaler :) Jan 24 16:30:40 google for the s3c2410 datasheet to see all of the "glory" ;) Jan 24 16:30:44 Ah. Jan 24 16:30:48 Pity. Jan 24 16:34:14 mickeyl: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/poky/trunk/meta/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive/hide-cursor-and-ppm-root.patch?rev=1191&view=auto Jan 24 16:37:10 mickeyl: why is there no stylesheet for planet openmoko? Jan 24 16:39:25 because the designers just finished it Jan 24 16:39:28 we didn't advertise the planet yet Jan 24 16:39:40 i think tomorrow it'll be there Jan 24 16:40:14 mickeyl: do you think that o-hand patch is usefull to openmoko? Jan 24 16:40:29 * koen|gprs suspects mickeyl has a slightly different version of that patch Jan 24 16:40:44 which one? Jan 24 16:40:48 oh Jan 24 16:40:53 * mickeyl reads Jan 24 16:41:26 oh that's cool Jan 24 16:41:30 definitly useful, yeah Jan 24 16:42:17 * koen|gprs heads towards a place that sells food Jan 24 16:43:33 hello Jan 24 17:26:38 hey Jan 24 17:26:43 doh wrong window Jan 24 17:27:09 :) Jan 24 17:27:44 i hate when text input doesn't shift focus with window focus. Jan 24 17:42:25 it looks like the hardware has 'agps' but not ordinary real 'gps'; is agps just assisted gps that requires cell towers and carrier cooperation? Jan 24 17:51:41 you can use real gps too Jan 24 17:52:01 and most likely someone will hack the thing to use agps from any source Jan 24 17:54:14 oh, it has a real gps also; or does agps mean 'assisted gps and real gps' ? Jan 24 17:55:35 its still not 100% clear to me that the sucker has gps in any case; these caveats and qualifiers like the 'a' in front of 'gps' always make me suspicious... Jan 24 17:56:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS Jan 24 17:57:29 * LaF0rge listens to some olschool trance on his neo1973 ;) Jan 24 17:57:47 kudos to xora and lrg Jan 24 18:00:31 I am green with envy Jan 24 18:01:01 as I compile minisip with the embedded targer Jan 24 18:01:07 target Jan 24 18:01:44 LaF0rge: :) Jan 24 18:01:46 LaF0rge: any idea if fic is interested in OEM the motherboard and lcd? Jan 24 18:03:16 LaF0rge: all working now then? Jan 24 18:04:46 is the wiki dead? Jan 24 18:04:58 it is requiring username/passwd Jan 24 18:05:05 xora: yeah, both headset and the stereo speakers Jan 24 18:05:11 (the official one) Jan 24 18:05:13 dougt: It's not open yet Jan 24 18:05:13 dougt: there is no public wiki before feb 11 Jan 24 18:05:19 LaF0rge: cool Jan 24 18:06:04 thanks. :) Jan 24 18:06:19 dougt: making minimo work? Jan 24 18:27:54 bloody GNU zealots Jan 24 18:28:11 Eh? Jan 24 18:28:11 wheres a zealot, will jump on them Jan 24 18:28:19 would they shut up if we manage to compile OE with tendra and use bsd's libc? Jan 24 18:28:39 or dietlibc for that matter Jan 24 18:28:47 XorA theres a few on the mailing list Jan 24 18:29:00 dietlibc is broken, why not ulibc? :) Jan 24 18:29:08 yeah whatever Jan 24 18:29:15 just not gnu ;= Jan 24 18:33:53 Do we have an anti-GNU zealot here or what? Jan 24 18:34:22 b_lindeijer: the mailing list has a couple of people pushing the gnu/linux thing Jan 24 18:34:24 just anti zealot Jan 24 18:34:42 usually when i get pushed to something i do the exact opposite ;) Jan 24 18:34:47 (just ask my gf) Jan 24 18:35:41 I see. Jan 24 18:35:51 so, you let'em get to you :] Jan 24 18:35:54 I thought these things had been already decided, heh. Jan 24 18:36:22 gnu/linux wont ever be decided Jan 24 18:36:31 that's religion++ Jan 24 18:36:32 and unfortunately, i can't auto-filter them, because i'm getting the list via digests. Jan 24 18:36:43 No, I mean whether to use Linux and glibc on the OpenMoko. Jan 24 18:36:51 gnu/linux doesn't have to do anything with religion Jan 24 18:36:53 oh linux and glibc it is, afaik Jan 24 18:37:51 Ah, ok. Jan 24 18:38:42 BTW, I'm itching to start coding something. Is there any needed sub-projects I can start working on? Jan 24 18:40:16 My skill set is mostly in low-level C, utilitites, etc. Not much skill in gui's (although I can aquire them as needed) Jan 24 18:41:28 tchuladdiass: Itching me too, but I think waiting is the best way to see what stuff is needed. Jan 24 18:41:44 tchuladdiass: Once the svn repo is open we shall see what is needed Jan 24 18:58:06 w Jan 24 19:41:50 damn Jan 24 19:41:58 I wish that thread would just die Jan 24 19:42:24 Nice theme. It's public from now: http://planet.openmoko.org/ Jan 24 19:43:07 looked CSSfree yesterday Jan 24 19:43:15 Very nice. Jan 24 19:43:51 http://planet.openmoko.org/ seems to me all css'd and nice now Jan 24 19:44:00 oh damn you beat me to it Jan 24 19:44:12 The last post which seems to be anonymous talkes about having a real physical device Jan 24 19:44:30 Glad they're almost in the wild :-) Jan 24 19:44:32 counter Jan 24 19:44:33 2 weeks, 3 days 01:44:39 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 5 days for mass market (2007-09-11) Jan 24 19:45:58 noidd: It seems LaF0rge has to fix up his weblog setup to show his name. ;) Jan 24 19:46:16 heh, nice Jan 24 19:48:51 I have a big display in my cube showing the days counting down Jan 24 19:49:08 people kept asking me why I was leaving (they see a countdown they assume why) Jan 24 19:49:20 so I end up giving the whole "This is openmoko" schpeil every day Jan 24 19:49:23 hehe Jan 24 19:49:39 I work with Time Warners corp cellphone / email / PIM people Jan 24 19:49:44 so I'm hoping to convert them Jan 24 19:49:52 we have an obscene number of blackberrys Jan 24 19:52:49 noidd: just imagine a custom app for timewarner Jan 24 19:52:59 fitting the time warner needs, running on all time warner devices Jan 24 19:53:13 i have never thought about this cooperate dimension Jan 24 19:53:35 gps tracking the time warner drones to make sure they are really on a sales trip and not on the beach Jan 24 19:54:34 manipulating the gps data send to time warner... :) Jan 24 19:55:16 ...No, I _must_ have done this job. It's on the computer. :) Jan 24 19:57:03 noidd: when I worked as an installer for time warner we used palm devices to check in with the headend an dispatch Jan 24 19:57:11 this could work for that as well Jan 24 19:57:34 and the biggest problem we had was always terrible software Jan 24 19:57:53 well that and our ticket system: remedy which was terrible Jan 24 19:59:01 I hated that software more than installs on 100 year old homes Jan 24 19:59:42 http://planet.openmoko.org/ now has a huge neo picture :) Jan 24 20:00:56 Ah, LaF0rge has fixed the weblog name entry. Nice. :) Jan 24 20:02:58 if anyone opens it: please make high-resolution pictures! ;) Jan 24 20:06:35 So, has anyone put together a plan for how to intice folks to buy the current Neo, when a lot of features that interest them are in the second version coming out in Sept? Ie, a discount for trade-in or so? Jan 24 20:07:29 the neo coming out in sep. is "the current neo" Jan 24 20:08:22 WEll, I got that from the announcement, where it says: Jan 24 20:08:24 "The 2nd generation OpenMoko device will also be introduced at this Jan 24 20:08:24 time. We have something special in the works, but again, you will Jan 24 20:08:27 help shape this device." Jan 24 20:08:49 right after it it mentions Sept Jan 24 20:09:59 well, apple has introduced the iphone Jan 24 20:10:04 it'll be available in the US in the summer, maybe :] Jan 24 20:10:44 And maybe not called the Iphone. Jan 24 20:11:01 Hmm. That's an idea. Contact cisco, for permission to use the name Iphone :) Jan 24 20:11:01 Did you hear that the Cisco iPhone has GPL violations in it? :) Jan 24 20:11:11 Sigh. Jan 24 20:11:28 andreychek: by "introduce", I think they mean "publish the first information about" Jan 24 20:11:35 so_solid_moo, doh Jan 24 20:11:36 ok Jan 24 20:11:40 IMHO, Cisco doesn't care about the iPhone name; they just want to get something from Apple. Jan 24 20:11:43 * koen|gprs says "OMG GNU!!!" and sighs at the ml Jan 24 20:11:43 andreychek: not "make available for purchase", since that's when the neo 1973 goes on sale Jan 24 20:11:44 so_solid_moo, I guess I misunderstood that part Jan 24 20:11:51 specifically, VoIP support. Jan 24 20:12:01 i don't understand this admiration for apple's devices. they're overpriced and no better than any other device... Jan 24 20:12:11 and anyway, I can't wait to get my hands on the Neo, regardless of the fact that it could be even spiffier ;) Jan 24 20:12:22 The design can be quite clean. Jan 24 20:12:27 LittleIdiot, image is everything, seems :] Jan 24 20:12:39 But not worth the price, or the general lack of features. Jan 24 20:12:57 "general lack of features"? *looks at a MacBook Pro* Jan 24 20:13:13 In some cases at least. Jan 24 20:13:23 Heh, hacker camp at old military airport. Funny, isn't it? http://events.ccc.de/2007/01/24/chaos-communication-camp-2007/ Jan 24 20:13:27 dell was more expensive for the same features of my mbp and powerbook Jan 24 20:13:42 Ipod is the main point I suppose. Jan 24 20:13:45 Features are over-rated as inherently good. Usability is important. Jan 24 20:13:52 by the way - wo'll be on the camp? i will ;) Jan 24 20:14:01 I saw one MP3 player, 1" cubed. Had a tiny but bright display. Jan 24 20:14:02 * stefan_schmidt hopefully, too. Jan 24 20:14:08 SHowed something like 8 characters of your current track. Jan 24 20:14:13 and, the bit rate of the track. Jan 24 20:14:38 how many % of ordinary users care about bitrate Jan 24 20:14:42 Just cause, you know, you need to know that when you're playing it. Jan 24 20:14:42 ? Jan 24 20:14:53 I've been annoyed for a while that I simply ca't get OLED displays in onesies. Jan 24 20:15:00 koen|gprs: they need to know how good the music they're listening to is! Jan 24 20:15:02 Even sillier, when you paused it, it stopped showing you the bit rate. :) Jan 24 20:15:20 Also, the e-ink people are spectacularly unhelpful in providing samples of e-ink imaging film. Jan 24 20:15:29 perfectly logical; the bit rate of silence isn't that interesting ;] Jan 24 20:15:34 My point with this example, though, is that it's not uncommon for people to say, "show the user _everything_!" Jan 24 20:15:50 Customisability is the win. Jan 24 20:16:14 SpeedEvil: I agree, _comletely_. Jan 24 20:16:31 However, there are many devices which are not properly customizable. Jan 24 20:16:41 Yeah like my mobile phone! Jan 24 20:16:44 SpeedEvil: oled of what size? Jan 24 20:16:45 I do not (yet. :) have the $$$ to design all my own toys. Jan 24 20:16:53 One area which I simply don't understand no MP3 player hitting is audio cues. Jan 24 20:17:02 For when you can't see the display. Jan 24 20:17:11 For example if the player is under your shirt. Jan 24 20:17:39 SpeedEvil: what size oled are you looking for? Jan 24 20:17:43 So, until then, I have to select from what's on the market. and I think Apple tends to do very well in figuring these things out. Jan 24 20:17:43 track back/forward sounds, speak the name of the track and album Jan 24 20:17:45 SpeedEvil, I smell a rockbox suggestion? :] Jan 24 20:17:56 Small - 10*50mm or so. Jan 24 20:18:08 SpeedEvil: sorry i mean in resolution? Jan 24 20:18:14 I just mean in comparison. There are _lots_ of cheap spare LCDs popping up on ebay. Jan 24 20:18:19 And no OLEDs. Jan 24 20:18:28 Err - maybe 16*100? Jan 24 20:18:49 SpeedEvil: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=712 Jan 24 20:19:32 Any idea what sort of apps will be on the neo1973 at launch? Jan 24 20:20:10 it will still be aimed at developers for a while, so probably not that much Jan 24 20:20:27 prpplague: interesting. Jan 24 20:20:36 basic phone, addressbook, e-mail/sms messaging app have been mentioned, and something about a media player Jan 24 20:20:39 I'm wondering if I want one, or if I want to use my E70+770. Jan 24 20:20:58 Do you know if the CPU will actually be operating all the time or not...? Jan 24 20:20:59 Is there a hardware MP3 chip? Or is it software only Jan 24 20:21:03 SpeedEvil: did a couple of prototypes for "proof of concept" designs with those Jan 24 20:21:13 Not seen that source, thanks. Jan 24 20:21:34 hi stefan_schmidt Jan 24 20:21:35 SpeedEvil: you mean in the neo1973? Jan 24 20:21:45 SpeedEvil: Software only Jan 24 20:21:48 hi greentux Jan 24 20:22:19 I think a port of OpenMoko to the 770 / N800 would be really interesting. Jan 24 20:22:21 prpplague: yes Jan 24 20:22:22 Does GNU anyone GNU know GNU what GNU the GNU hole GNU in GNU the GNU front GNU of GNU the GNU phone GNU is GNU for? (GNU) Jan 24 20:22:33 You could control the phone via AT commands over bluetooth. Jan 24 20:22:41 i imagine it's for a tie strap Jan 24 20:23:00 probably NON-FREE straps!!!! Jan 24 20:23:03 Thats all I can think of too but that just seem silly Jan 24 20:23:08