**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 20 02:59:57 2007 Feb 20 03:03:14 Elrond, I think adding categories could maybe be flagged as "minor edit".. :) Feb 20 03:04:11 whoa mokomakefile is still going Feb 20 03:04:13 i'd forgotten about it! Feb 20 03:05:41 that's linux! Feb 20 03:27:27 rwhitby, Checked out revision 8 Feb 20 03:28:09 jebba: give that one a go - I tested it on 1041, but mickey|zzZZzz has checked in some more stuff since then and I haven't done a new build yet. Feb 20 03:29:04 jebba: Feel free to check in any fixes required to get it to build latest. Feb 20 03:33:15 nice, wifi? was tripped automatically twice and both in right context Feb 20 03:34:17 rwhitby: thanks for mokomakefile, finished now here (it fixed some problems automatically, wiki had some, I fixed rest) Feb 20 03:34:44 aloril: great. Feb 20 03:35:25 * aloril is wondering if this is unique problem for him locally: Feb 20 03:35:27 arm-linux-gcc: /usr/local/src/htmlpp: No such file or directory Feb 20 03:35:40 for rxvt-unicode-7.9-r0 Feb 20 03:36:11 (fixed by editing Makefile and removing last part of ...aging/arm-linux/lib -lXpm -lX11 /usr/local/src/htmlpp ) Feb 20 03:36:12 aloril, i didn't have a problem with rxvt but i do remember someone mentioning issues with it.... Feb 20 03:37:06 * aloril had 2 problems: source position had moved and above Feb 20 03:38:20 config.log had this: PERLLIB='/usr/local/src/htmlpp' Feb 20 03:39:06 * aloril did have directory like that, but even after renaming it and restarting from scratch it tripped same error, haven't digged deeper Feb 20 03:42:29 last 2 nick count records: 261 2007-02-16; 263 2007-02-19 Feb 20 04:01:38 rwhitby, build 200702200115: completed Feb 20 04:02:02 that was quick Feb 20 04:02:13 what rebuilt? Feb 20 04:03:03 (note that mokomakefile currently removes all the SRCDATE="now" stuff to stop everything rebuilding every time, but that might cause some things not to rebuild if the moko folks have not updated PRs. Feb 20 04:12:10 rwhitby, openmoko-devel-image-qemuarm-20070220041540.rootfs.* Not much directly rebuilt with the makefile (a few openmoko-*) as I had been running a `bitbake openmoko-devel-image` while waiting for makefile svn (and I had already resync'd to oe/om). Feb 20 04:12:27 nod Feb 20 04:12:37 ya, I saw that patch. I didn't get why it was there (SRCDATE), but now it make sense. Seems like that may come bite us sometime though. Feb 20 04:13:25 yeah, I'm not sure how to handle that yet. We definitely don't want to rebuild everything every time, but we do want have a way to force the rebuild of all that stuff that they set to "now" Feb 20 04:35:11 openmoko: 03werner * r1050 10/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Experimental splash screen support. Feb 20 04:58:07 ok newer image, ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/blag/developers/jebba/openmoko/qemu-r1049/ Feb 20 05:27:22 Heh. Where do I put bugs related to the openmoko sites? bugzilla does not seem to contain 'infrastructure' project or component. Feb 20 05:39:30 jebba: cool. Feb 20 05:39:38 except for the sideways display :) Feb 20 06:18:36 jebba: what version of qemu are you using? Feb 20 06:18:47 (and is there a pre-packaged deb for debian etch?) Feb 20 06:27:20 I am currently running 0.9.0 (just released a couple weeks ago) on my "fc6" laptop. The debian-etch buildbox has qemu 0.8.2 (apt-get install qemu...), which I believe is fine for this. Feb 20 06:27:46 rwhitby Feb 20 06:28:07 sweet, installing that now Feb 20 06:33:10 rwhitby: 0.9 is in debian experimental Feb 20 06:36:37 * rwhitby tries 0.8.2 and jebba's image Feb 20 06:38:08 hi everyone jebba what image are you emulating ..this..ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/blag/developers/jebba/openmoko/qemu-r1049/openmoko-devel-image-qemuarm-r1049.rootfs.ext2.bz2..? Feb 20 06:38:41 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r9 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/openmoko-mainmenu.patch: Refreshed the openmoko-mainmenu patch - it still requires the -lmb: addition Feb 20 06:39:53 * rwhitby edits /etc/X11/Xserver sideways ... Feb 20 06:40:27 ah, "-M versatilepb" was that magic missing thing .. Feb 20 06:41:14 * rwhitby reboots openmoko for the first time Feb 20 06:44:46 jebba: know any keybindings to make up for the lack of a visible mouse? Feb 20 06:47:32 Aha - Alt-F4 exits an app. Feb 20 06:50:59 hey koen Feb 20 06:52:05 * rwhitby will plays with the qemuarm image on the way home on the bus ... Feb 20 06:52:13 * Paavo just saw a Neo1973 live yesterday :) Feb 20 06:52:35 Paavo: spill ... Feb 20 06:53:39 Didn't have the chance to try any of the software, but the device felt nice in your hand. Sturdy. Not too big. Feb 20 06:53:45 morng Feb 20 06:56:02 one question i have is ... what's with the "handle" like thingie at the bottom? Feb 20 06:56:13 the loop? Feb 20 06:56:18 you don't need a loop that big do you? Feb 20 06:56:31 ever seen asian people with cellphones? Feb 20 06:56:35 neck strap goes there :) Feb 20 06:56:38 unless there's an antenna there i dunno about ... Feb 20 06:56:40 aahh Feb 20 06:56:41 lol Feb 20 06:56:44 there is an antenna too Feb 20 06:56:44 figures Feb 20 06:56:57 looks sturdy enough to hang oneself from Feb 20 06:57:21 ...bad joke but the japs seem the have that demographic cornered ... Feb 20 06:57:41 those phone straps are coming.. Feb 20 06:57:48 we have the cellphone jewelry now too Feb 20 06:57:53 wow Feb 20 06:57:54 that was hot in 1999 Feb 20 06:57:56 in korea Feb 20 06:58:07 we totally follow asia in this crap Feb 20 06:58:08 um, do we have any female hackers here to try them on? ;) Feb 20 06:58:18 cuz i'm not ... :D Feb 20 06:58:36 I am sure there are "dude" versions too Feb 20 06:58:45 well, it's lost on me Feb 20 06:59:13 even while i was working in asia, i never went for eyecandy...if it fit in my pocket it's the model i bought Feb 20 06:59:40 a friend lives on tokyo Feb 20 06:59:46 he has ~2 hour commute to work Feb 20 06:59:53 * glm2k whistles Feb 20 06:59:57 the cellphone is his communication device Feb 20 07:00:02 he does mail etc there on the train Feb 20 07:00:05 chat etcetera Feb 20 07:00:12 you dont keep your phone much in your pocket :) Feb 20 07:00:20 hehe, agreed Feb 20 07:00:33 and thus the neck strap does make a lot of sense in that kind of situation Feb 20 07:00:38 its there when you need it Feb 20 07:02:32 can't wait for march Feb 20 07:02:48 It's fun to see 50 year old business men in japan take out their phone from the suit pockets and it has a big pile of hello kitty and furry trolls and stuff hanging from it :) Feb 20 07:02:57 yep Feb 20 07:03:04 that stuff is not just for girls there Feb 20 07:03:08 haven't been this excited since buying an ipaq years ago...just to run linux on Feb 20 07:03:13 glm2k: :) Feb 20 07:03:19 the device is cute Feb 20 07:03:22 i saw Feb 20 07:03:23 hehe Feb 20 07:03:33 anyone with a black/silver graphic? Feb 20 07:03:40 japanese girly style Feb 20 07:03:40 for comparison? Feb 20 07:12:28 hey rwhitby Feb 20 07:17:08 CM: its nice that people have started to put comment by default too (Buying_Interest_List) Feb 20 07:17:39 aloril: Yes, nice to know what people are interested in doing :) Feb 20 07:37:20 openmoko: 03werner * r1051 10/developers/werner/splash/imghs.pl: Raw framebuffer image converter, with HWSWP enabled Feb 20 08:18:05 * rwhitby wonders if qemu on windows for arm works ... Feb 20 08:19:09 Is the wiki a bit slowish just now? Feb 20 08:19:38 (specifically the "recent changes" page) Feb 20 08:22:35 Elrond: it seems that way Feb 20 08:28:00 I wonder if the fix designers realize that pixels are atomic Feb 20 08:28:17 * koen looks at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Finger_01_dialer_2.png Feb 20 08:31:13 * koen stares some more at that image Feb 20 08:31:38 10.329 is not 10 1/3 pixels, but a coordinate! Feb 20 08:31:55 yeah, since a good gui is not pixel based Feb 20 08:32:01 but point based Feb 20 08:33:00 and rendered with subpixel accuracy? Feb 20 08:33:16 and the question is, to which pixel does 10.329 map Feb 20 08:33:23 (X.Y, WxH) Feb 20 08:33:24 which is depending on the dpi Feb 20 08:33:27 and res Feb 20 08:33:55 at least a modern UI _should_ be that way Feb 20 08:35:03 but in this image Feb 20 08:35:08 10.329 might mean Feb 20 08:35:11 x 10 y 329 Feb 20 08:35:33 or it pretty sure does Feb 20 08:35:49 but still might be point based, not pixel based Feb 20 08:35:50 .-) Feb 20 08:35:56 but I doubt that Feb 20 08:36:06 * koen has never seen a coord system that uses '.' as a seperator Feb 20 08:36:26 :-) Feb 20 08:36:41 european? Feb 20 08:37:26 anyway, how far is gtk+ regarding resolution independence? Feb 20 08:40:04 anyway yes it might be european Feb 20 08:40:16 hmm but wait it's not :) Feb 20 08:40:30 '.' is being used as thousands separator Feb 20 08:40:38 like 10.000,00 Feb 20 08:40:41 that is 10 thousand Feb 20 08:40:53 coordinates are always with ',' Feb 20 08:41:06 i ment if koen is Feb 20 08:41:13 lol Feb 20 08:41:17 no idea, but i am :) Feb 20 08:41:22 since in europe you would use , or ; Feb 20 08:41:26 yeah Feb 20 08:41:51 isn't the mockup designer in asia? Feb 20 08:41:54 chinese? Feb 20 08:42:02 taiwanese? Feb 20 08:42:16 if you talk to a chinese there is no difference Feb 20 08:42:18 *g* Feb 20 08:42:23 actually no Feb 20 08:42:27 i spent one year in asia Feb 20 08:42:36 they're all different .. be it korean, japanese, chinese, vietnames Feb 20 08:42:39 that was a "political" remark Feb 20 08:42:42 haha Feb 20 08:42:42 ok Feb 20 08:43:25 since the "peoples republic" of china does not accept Taiwan as a state Feb 20 08:43:36 yeah damn those communists :-D Feb 20 08:43:43 same for hong kong Feb 20 08:43:52 those with the wildest capitalism you can imagine Feb 20 08:43:55 :-) Feb 20 08:44:18 hehe the strangest kind of communists Feb 20 08:44:23 money changed them ;-) Feb 20 08:44:43 but still better than those real in north korea Feb 20 08:48:44 Harlekin: shall we normalize the coords and take a bet how long it takes for the designers figure it out? Feb 20 08:49:07 Kaco: there are some chinese in this channel, i.e. me :) Feb 20 08:49:56 eugene, but you're not in government right? :) Feb 20 08:50:05 Kaco: lol :) Feb 20 08:50:09 eugene, anyway I know what I am speaking about... Feb 20 08:50:21 eugene, we were controlled by russians and had communism till 1989 Feb 20 08:50:29 eugene, then we kicked them out :) Feb 20 08:50:33 hehe Feb 20 08:50:52 maybe you heard of slovakia (or czechoslovakia) in europe Feb 20 08:50:58 yes Feb 20 08:51:02 ok Feb 20 08:51:26 well i guess it's not that bad in china, except so called freespeech Feb 20 08:51:36 hehe, true, very true. Feb 20 08:51:39 :) Feb 20 08:52:02 ups, my ISP just upgraded my dsl connection Feb 20 08:52:13 Harlekin23, increased speed? :) Feb 20 08:52:26 yes Feb 20 08:52:40 now 17690/1183 Feb 20 08:52:52 wtf? :) Feb 20 08:52:53 not bad Feb 20 08:52:58 i'm on 1024/256 Feb 20 08:53:05 ... Feb 20 08:53:10 only 512/224 here Feb 20 08:53:13 :-( Feb 20 08:53:20 i'm only 512/128 Feb 20 08:53:22 ... Feb 20 08:53:23 hmm max with DSL here is probably 2048 Feb 20 08:53:31 1M/128 iirc here Feb 20 08:53:40 when i was in korea i was on 70000/15000 Feb 20 08:53:43 at home :) Feb 20 08:54:02 and it was really cheap ... i wish i can get it here Feb 20 08:54:11 especially 1 mbit upload is nice for video conferencing Feb 20 08:54:21 yeah Feb 20 08:54:30 256 upload sometimes sucks even for Skype Feb 20 08:56:05 hello there Feb 20 08:56:08 Kaco, was that 70mbit/15mbit? Feb 20 08:56:51 * koen used to be on 100M/100M :( Feb 20 08:57:00 :o Feb 20 08:57:04 koen: how? Feb 20 08:57:21 LuitvD: by living on campus Feb 20 08:57:31 ah, nice :) Feb 20 08:57:51 koen: a friend of mine has 10M/10M at home :) Feb 20 08:57:56 Psi, yes :) Feb 20 08:57:58 i just upgraded to 4.6mbit/700kbit from 1mbit/256kbit Feb 20 08:58:30 Psi, every apartment there had such connection ... in fact this was minimal available Feb 20 08:58:46 heh Feb 20 08:59:19 for $10/mo Feb 20 08:59:35 nice Feb 20 08:59:37 usually it was part of rent Feb 20 09:00:04 well south korea is the most wired country in the world ... around 70% of people have broadband at home Feb 20 09:00:41 i'm wondering if Neo1973 will work there, since they're not using GSM Feb 20 09:00:56 but CDMA, but that is what they've got in US too right? Feb 20 09:01:07 is Neo GSM/CDMA? Feb 20 09:01:13 neo1973 is gsm-only Feb 20 09:01:18 so no US? Feb 20 09:01:25 only europe/asia? Feb 20 09:01:46 US has two large GSM providers plus a load of smaller ones, from what I've heard Feb 20 09:01:52 ah ok Feb 20 09:02:15 AT&T / Cingular and T-mobile were the names, I think Feb 20 09:02:26 hm Cingular ... so iPhone is GSM too? :) Feb 20 09:02:27 T-mobile i'm certain about :P Feb 20 09:02:36 yes t-mobile is GSM, even in my country Feb 20 09:03:03 Kaco: iPhone is GSM (us version Feb 20 09:03:05 ) Feb 20 09:03:14 Kaco: in all of europe T-Mobile is GSM (+ 3G in some places) Feb 20 09:03:26 so then you can use it in their network; no fancy 3G, but the first neo doesn't do 3G anyway Feb 20 09:03:42 who is their Feb 20 09:03:49 all network carriers in the netherlands do GSM and GPRS :) Feb 20 09:03:49 ok Feb 20 09:03:51 T-Mobile, apparently Feb 20 09:03:55 3g is not that wide spread in the US Feb 20 09:04:06 we've got 3G here Feb 20 09:04:12 Kaco: where? Feb 20 09:04:16 and even that faster .... was it HDSPA? HDSCA? Feb 20 09:04:18 Slovakia Feb 20 09:04:25 NL has about 50% coverage of HSDPA Feb 20 09:04:25 Kaco: 2.5G Feb 20 09:04:42 Harlekin: no, 3,5G Feb 20 09:04:46 :-D Feb 20 09:04:48 hsdpa is 3,5G Feb 20 09:04:56 LuitvD: ups. yes Feb 20 09:04:57 well i'm not using it, i would prefer if Neo had wifi :) Feb 20 09:05:04 :P Feb 20 09:05:13 * LuitvD looks at apt... Feb 20 09:05:22 hmm, script doesn't trigger... Feb 20 09:05:31 LuitvD: was thinking about EDGE Feb 20 09:05:40 Harlekin: ah :P Feb 20 09:05:55 was somehow still in the iPhone context Feb 20 09:06:07 shame on you :) Feb 20 09:06:26 yeah, real life sometimes interferes Feb 20 09:06:50 good morning Feb 20 09:07:44 bluh, I hope my PDA and cellphone are still worth some money... Feb 20 09:08:00 going to sell both and buy a Neo ASAP Feb 20 09:08:51 LuitvD: so you do not need a reliable phone? Feb 20 09:09:11 hi folks, is the Neo already available? Do you insider guys know when a Wifi + BT enabled version will hit the market? Feb 20 09:09:11 When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess Feb 20 09:10:25 aloril, that will work, but it's not very convinient Feb 20 09:10:48 and probably not very mobile Feb 20 09:10:50 counter? Feb 20 09:10:51 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 2 days 02:15:21 (3.094 - 9.094 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 2 days (25.094 - 40.094 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 2 days (193.094 - 223.094 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (366) Feb 20 09:10:57 zoolooc, im pretty sure they said they plan to keep the current distribution cycle, so, following the current one, you should be able to buy the next neo model march 11th 2008 Feb 20 09:11:39 thats a pretty big extrapolation tho, there are many factors to consider Feb 20 09:11:39 alright, thanks Psi Feb 20 09:12:00 about wifi version: either september or next year (guesses) Feb 20 09:12:11 yeah Feb 20 09:12:16 guess so.. I hope that openmoko will be usable on other pda-phones, too Feb 20 09:12:35 what open-source GPS app is supposed to be used? Feb 20 09:12:48 how is the map material situation? Feb 20 09:12:58 no idea Feb 20 09:13:00 [x] openstreetmap Feb 20 09:13:07 the young man is asking tough questions :) Feb 20 09:13:13 heh Feb 20 09:14:17 zoolooc: and gpsdrive was available for zaurus too. it might work as well. and it also supports openstreetmap data in newer versions afaik Feb 20 09:14:25 heh Feb 20 09:14:30 gpsdrive suckls donkey ass Feb 20 09:14:38 I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole Feb 20 09:14:50 maemomapper would fit nicely I guess Feb 20 09:14:51 koen: yeah, but do you have a better one? :> Feb 20 09:14:52 its nice and small Feb 20 09:15:00 and I know of no sane person that wants to work on it after seeing the source Feb 20 09:15:05 d0tslash: yes, maemo-mapper Feb 20 09:15:13 i have seen the source when i tried to fix some bug ... Feb 20 09:15:20 i was ... shocked Feb 20 09:15:25 but it works after all O_o Feb 20 09:16:22 thanks for the hint, i'll have a look at maemomapper .. Feb 20 09:18:23 Harlekin: reliable? what do you mean reliable? Everything I run has open-source software in beta-testing fase... Feb 20 09:18:48 LuitvD: you might want to consider to keep your other phone while doing development on the neo Feb 20 09:19:28 Harlekin: I'm not going to develop my own kernel or gsmd... so I guess it'll always be able to make a phone call... Feb 20 09:20:01 phase 2 phone probably has some hardware changes from phase 1, but don't know if those changes will include wifi; also developers byuing phase 1 phone will get discount Feb 20 09:20:09 LuitvD: if you hack something, there will be times when it won't boot or such Feb 20 09:20:35 aloril2: what kind of discount? :O Feb 20 09:20:43 "rm /sbin/init" oopos Feb 20 09:20:49 -o Feb 20 09:21:11 haveing both p1 and a p2 device would be nice :) Feb 20 09:21:35 what's the difference between those? Feb 20 09:21:38 tigert: if I hack the wrong something then I won't be able to boot... Feb 20 09:21:54 koen: what aloril2 said... Feb 20 09:21:59 LuitvD: that was not specified Feb 20 09:22:13 koen: a possible difference... Feb 20 09:22:29 koen: if the p2 device has wifi, I'd love to have that one too :P Feb 20 09:22:32 LuitvD: maybe a small board layout change, that's it Feb 20 09:22:35 no wifi Feb 20 09:22:40 ah, okay Feb 20 09:23:01 yeah, id be very surprised if they added wifi to p2 Feb 20 09:23:07 me too :) Feb 20 09:23:10 added *anything* Feb 20 09:23:37 there was something about a external jtag connector that i read somewhere Feb 20 09:23:45 that's in p0 as well Feb 20 09:23:53 from recent mails it looks like they will add few i2c pins available Feb 20 09:24:05 anyways, I'm off to install linux on a friend's computer Feb 20 09:24:08 bye all Feb 20 09:24:13 isnt p0 jtag an internal connector? Feb 20 09:26:58 yes Feb 20 09:27:11 but why on earth would FIC make it external? Feb 20 09:27:41 i can imagine that undoing the phone every time you want to use jtag might be quite annoying Feb 20 09:27:56 * aloril2 might have read that mail wrong and maybe Sean refered to v2 instead of phase 2 (or maybe even both?) Feb 20 09:28:01 how many times do you want to use jtag? Feb 20 09:28:09 you wont have to use JTAG very often unless you're working on the bootloader Feb 20 09:28:28 or maybe some linux driver development Feb 20 09:28:30 * XorA has used Neo JTAG a whole once Feb 20 09:28:41 vmaster: even bootloader can be tested inside of bootloader Feb 20 09:28:51 isn't jtag also used for general debugging of applications? Feb 20 09:29:02 Psi: no, you can use gdbserver for that Feb 20 09:29:02 vmaster: you can load uboot into ram, jump to it from uboot/flash and do testing Feb 20 09:29:03 Psi: no, that's gdb Feb 20 09:29:04 aloril2, IIRC it's been clear enough that phase 2 may change a bit (though I also doubt very much there will be large changes like wifi) Feb 20 09:29:05 if hardware is same in p2 than p1, why would you needto buy new? just reflash new software ;-) Feb 20 09:29:08 ah, ok Feb 20 09:29:43 fair enough then Feb 20 09:29:43 hrw: well, if I have JTAG available I would use it for bootloader development, as it makes things easier, but that's probably a matter of personal taste Feb 20 09:30:18 vmaster: I wonder why people likes to work on bootloaders... if it works dont fix it Feb 20 09:30:25 I'm trying to run openmoko under xoo, but it looks for openmoko-footer which doesn't exist Feb 20 09:30:34 hrw: s/fix/broke/ Feb 20 09:30:37 * koen suddenly remembers he does have jtag equipment avaliable: the ep93xx board Feb 20 09:30:39 Does this mean I need to do a native build? Feb 20 09:30:41 anyway as said I'll probably buy p2 too so I'll use that and my SO will get my p1 and we'll be able to use all the nifty communications apps that you guys have developed at that point ;) Feb 20 09:31:03 koen: that never worked afaik Feb 20 09:31:34 mjr: what about p0/p1/p2 collecting? Feb 20 09:31:46 If so, does a native build mean setting MACHINE=x86? Feb 20 09:31:50 vmaster: oh well, I managed to avoid bricking stuff the past 4 years, so I'll manage it another few years from now as well :) Feb 20 09:32:34 koen: heh, yeah, but with the number of developers openmoko is attracting i believe it's quite likely that at least some of them manage to brick their phone Feb 20 09:33:14 i agree Feb 20 09:33:15 vmaster: the people on the mailing seem capable of bricking their precious emulator Feb 20 09:33:46 hrw, yes well. Not getting a p0 *snif*. I'll have to buy one used it seems... Feb 20 09:33:56 * XorA waits for the first mke2fs run on /dev/mtdpart1 Feb 20 09:34:12 XorA: part0! Feb 20 09:34:51 right, part0 - because why waste it Feb 20 09:35:19 hehehe Feb 20 09:36:09 hrw: right, how needs a bootloader when the BIOS can boot linux just fine Feb 20 09:36:15 s/how/who/ Feb 20 09:36:15 koen meant: hrw: right, who needs a bootloader when the BIOS can boot linux just fine Feb 20 09:38:11 * XorA does wonder who the first person to do crazy shit like 3.3V -> DCDC -> 5v -> USB is gonna be Feb 20 09:39:03 getting the 3.3v wont be easy Feb 20 09:39:16 its not like there is an external 3.3v plug on the phone Feb 20 09:39:34 Psi: or Vbatt -> DCDC -> 5v as thats easy Feb 20 09:39:49 it won't be hard, since the connectors are visible when you open the back Feb 20 09:39:57 ah, do you mean, put a little dcdc inside the phone casing? Feb 20 09:40:22 Psi: yeah, I expect someone to do the mod to get a wireless dongle running :-) Feb 20 09:40:58 looking at the pics of inside the phone there doesn't look to be much room Feb 20 09:41:12 Psi: it would have to be an extended back Feb 20 09:41:23 that would work :) Feb 20 09:42:56 * Psi is away: nite Feb 20 09:43:32 XorA: you have case for neo or not? Feb 20 09:43:38 hrw: I do Feb 20 09:44:04 XorA: so you can tell does it fit or how much it will not fit Feb 20 09:44:40 hrw: there is no way it would fit with the back as is, but any plastic bender should be able to fit a new back Feb 20 09:45:00 hrw: also note, its not the real case I have Feb 20 09:45:10 hm I have to check dimensions of phone to compare with current one Feb 20 09:45:50 i'm sure theres enough room in there for a smt linear reg + thin wires Feb 20 10:00:33 XorA: do you know what host distro the core team members such as yourself, mickey|zzZZzz and LaF0rge use? Feb 20 10:01:02 (i.e. is there a "standard" host distro config that you guys have chosen) Feb 20 10:01:31 hi Feb 20 10:01:38 rwhitby: Im not core, I work for Wolfson, I personally use openSuSe Feb 20 10:02:15 XorA: do you know what the others use? Feb 20 10:02:43 rwhitby: debian Feb 20 10:02:59 * rwhitby is thinking Phase0 developer VMWare image ... Feb 20 10:03:14 rwhitby: I beleive mickey|zzZZzz is a Mandriva man Feb 20 10:03:36 rwhitby: as in you're thinking of making one? Feb 20 10:03:57 robtaylor: gathering info to see whether it is possible to converge on one. Feb 20 10:04:21 rwhitby: the easieast way to do it would be a debian chrootable/vmwareable image Feb 20 10:04:29 (i.e. there is no point in making one if it's not the same as the majority of the core devs are using) Feb 20 10:04:32 rwhitby: i was actually going to look at doing a vmware/livecd developers environ today Feb 20 10:05:36 rwhitby: really, it doesnt matter Feb 20 10:05:47 rwhitby: oe isn;t very distro-dependant Feb 20 10:06:09 robtaylor: I'm thinking things like software like on this page, not OE: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board Feb 20 10:06:13 and everyone just uses terminal windows and vim :) Feb 20 10:06:31 i.e. making sure it has the right ftdi drivers and stuff. Feb 20 10:07:54 and qemu, and xoo, .... Feb 20 10:09:31 and openocd Feb 20 10:11:10 or at least have all those things buildable natively (with the right configurations and patches) in OE ... Feb 20 10:17:33 rwhitby: but... noone's going to be using the debug boards Feb 20 10:18:43 rwhitby: i'd vote debian or ubuntu. I can always package the tools up as and when they're neede Feb 20 10:18:46 d Feb 20 10:18:51 robtaylor: all phase0 devs get a debug board apparently Feb 20 10:19:12 oh, thats a new one to me :) Feb 20 10:19:14 robtaylor: I use Debian Etch here Feb 20 10:19:52 yeah, etch is probably the right thing. Feb 20 10:20:47 robtaylor: on openmoko-devel, I asked Werner "Is a debug v2 board included in the Phase 0 dev package?" and the response was "Yep. It'll be optional for phase 1, though." Feb 20 10:20:48 rwhitby: any good at packaging? :) Feb 20 10:21:17 robtaylor: I use VMWare with Debian for all my development, but have never tried to package anything ... Feb 20 10:21:46 rwhitby: ok, i'll get openocd and ftdi packaged up then Feb 20 10:22:01 if noone's already done it Feb 20 10:24:23 they are packaged, but need bleeding edge patches it seems. Feb 20 10:26:03 rwhitby: already in etch? Feb 20 10:27:32 rwhitby: where's the packaging you've seen? Feb 20 10:27:50 http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/dpkg Feb 20 10:29:21 cool Feb 20 10:29:59 hmm, badly packaged, actually :/ Feb 20 11:11:40 yo Feb 20 11:15:14 crapola there are a lot of peeps in here Feb 20 11:22:13 thanks to put photo of the neo without case Feb 20 11:32:56 does anyone had problems with intltool and openmoko-dates package? Feb 20 12:06:02 robtaylor: I wonder if openmoko could run on scratchbox? Feb 20 12:08:12 tigert: why would you want to do that? Feb 20 12:08:58 tigert: OE's the build environment, so there's not much point in using sb Feb 20 12:09:20 robtaylor: to use my existing sbox :) Feb 20 12:09:26 (and OE is a lot nicer a build env than sb ;) Feb 20 12:10:08 tigert: its a bit like asking about building linux without gmake Feb 20 12:10:28 :) Feb 20 12:10:36 I tried building emacs on IRIX Feb 20 12:10:37 once. Feb 20 12:10:52 indeed =) Feb 20 12:49:55 counter Feb 20 12:49:55 P0: a week, a day 22:36:16 (2.942 - 8.942 days); P1: 24.942 - 39.942; P2: 192.942 - 222.942 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (367) Feb 20 12:50:56 A week is a long time in politics. Feb 20 12:51:11 s/po/p0/ Feb 20 12:51:11 SpeedEvil meant: A week is a long time in p0litics. Feb 20 12:51:49 39.942 would suit me perfectly Feb 20 12:52:03 ? Feb 20 12:52:07 not 39.963? Feb 20 12:52:19 certainly not!! Feb 20 12:52:20 :) Feb 20 12:52:37 I'm busy with moving to a new flat in march so.. :) Feb 20 12:52:43 better not have any distractions :) Feb 20 12:52:54 Ah. Feb 20 12:53:55 as a regular consumer not afraid to hack, should I buy an openmoko now or wait? Feb 20 12:54:29 0/j #linux.conf.au Feb 20 12:55:27 andrerav, it's like asking an investor whether to invest :) Feb 20 12:55:42 hm :) Feb 20 12:55:42 INVEST!! is the only answer you can get :) Feb 20 12:55:53 you got one? Feb 20 12:56:04 in 39.9 days yes Feb 20 12:56:09 not yet Feb 20 13:02:30 xkr47: I'm editing the 1-wire suggestion - USB is high power and there isn't a spare port in the phone. I2C is daisy-chainable. Adding 1-wire suggestion (as one app of an externally accessible I2C bus) Feb 20 13:03:46 so there is i2c-to-1wire also ? Feb 20 13:04:18 careful with that i2c bus Feb 20 13:04:37 SpeedEvil, thanks.. it was just an idea after all.. 1wire has some nice easily usable, quite small parts that can be used for a lot of stuff Feb 20 13:04:49 XorA, elaborate ? Feb 20 13:05:26 xkr47: remeber that the chips internally are controlled, so dont fsck the bus or the phone will cease to work/damage itself in interesting ways Feb 20 13:06:30 1 wire has lots of nice small parts. Feb 20 13:06:30 yeah.. some diodes etc should be placed on the 1wire side to protect the stuff Feb 20 13:06:37 But the interface chips are quite large. Feb 20 13:06:57 It'd make more sense to bring out I2C, if possible, and use an I2C - 1-wire bridge. Feb 20 13:07:05 SpeedEvil, is 10x15mm too large? Feb 20 13:07:21 SpeedEvil, I was more thinking of fitting it inside somewhere.. Feb 20 13:07:27 at least the temperature sensor Feb 20 13:07:38 Compared to 1*2mm for a stand-alone I2C sensor, yes. Feb 20 13:07:58 the ds1820 is quite reactive and certainly would beat the current nokia temperature meter which is ~5-10 degrees off :) Feb 20 13:08:00 Which does not need an interface chip, and just sticks on to the I2C bus somewhere. Feb 20 13:08:26 SpeedEvil, I'm not into i2c, sounds from you like there are temp sensors already directly for i2c.. Feb 20 13:08:32 Yes. Feb 20 13:08:49 Also I2C - 1wire bridges. Feb 20 13:09:02 but I think XorA's point is valid.. some protection is needed if i2c is going out from the phone Feb 20 13:09:43 SpeedEvil, thanks for updating the article :) Feb 20 13:09:57 or if you didn't, for the discussion :) Feb 20 13:10:22 True. Feb 20 13:12:04 how about the debug card, where does it get it's usb port from? does it take over the onboard usb port ? Feb 20 13:13:23 AIUI - it doesn't have one. Feb 20 13:13:33 The USB port is to talk to the debug board. Feb 20 13:13:35 AIUI? Feb 20 13:13:39 As I understand it? Feb 20 13:13:42 As I Understand IT. Feb 20 13:13:57 daxxar is fast on the keys, slow on the brain bandwidth :) Feb 20 13:13:58 xkr47: I will also point at http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/i2c-permit_invalid_addrs.patch and swear about chips that dont follow i2c spec Feb 20 13:14:12 good point Feb 20 13:14:13 xkr47: xD Feb 20 13:14:17 True Feb 20 13:14:27 no worries, I'm like that too Feb 20 13:14:32 Oh, can't wait for the phone. Feb 20 13:14:32 * SpeedEvil tries to remember who said that. Feb 20 13:14:43 counter Feb 20 13:14:43 P0: a week, a day 22:11:27 (2.925 - 8.925 days); P1: 24.925 - 39.925; P2: 192.925 - 222.925 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (368) Feb 20 13:14:50 Wish I had prior experience with embedded development so I could get one of those developer-prereleases. Feb 20 13:14:57 I'm pretty sure it was one of the people with existing hardware. Feb 20 13:15:06 Horrendous pain being a simple C-developer ;P Feb 20 13:15:21 You diddn't need embedded skills really. Feb 20 13:15:27 daxxar, heh Feb 20 13:15:34 Just a sort-of-relevant history. Feb 20 13:15:43 Hm, I recall reading something about prior embedded experience Feb 20 13:15:53 That's a plus, of course. Feb 20 13:16:06 However, too late now. Feb 20 13:16:12 Yepyep Feb 20 13:16:39 regarding debug: I found the wiki entry for the OpenOCD with the list of known bugs - I think I fixed the libftdi initialization in revision 131, would be nice if the person who reported that bug could check if this works now Feb 20 13:17:21 speed: there's no usb on the debug connector Feb 20 13:17:29 What's the protocol between a cellphone and the BT earpiece? Feb 20 13:17:42 DukeOfURL: depends on the earpiece Feb 20 13:17:42 Is there an IP stack on both sides? Feb 20 13:17:48 Bluetooth Feb 20 13:17:50 It's not IP. Feb 20 13:17:52 Wouldn't IP be a bit overkill? :o Feb 20 13:18:07 you can run IP over bluetooth Feb 20 13:18:13 s/IP/ethernet/ Feb 20 13:18:16 that's what PAN and NAP do Feb 20 13:18:17 Sure - but the headsets don't. Feb 20 13:18:19 as well as BNEP Feb 20 13:18:36 koen: Does that change the fact that using it for 1:1-communcation with a headset would be overkill/bloat? Feb 20 13:18:43 Is it ethernet, or is there a different protocol? Feb 20 13:18:48 newer headsets do a2dp, no idea what older ones use Feb 20 13:19:02 daxxar: no idea Feb 20 13:19:02 a2dp? Feb 20 13:19:35 koen: you dont normally run GSM over A2DP Feb 20 13:20:11 is Bluetooth another MAC layer with discovery capabilities? Feb 20 13:20:15 XorA: a2dp is the hifi thing? Feb 20 13:20:39 koen: yeah, lossy comrpession running over the data link Feb 20 13:21:10 DukeOfURL: http://www.bluetooth.com/Bluetooth/Learn/ Feb 20 13:21:34 Yea, I'm looking at the wikipedia now Feb 20 13:22:00 Koen: thx Feb 20 13:22:56 man, some of my fellow students really are ignorant Feb 20 13:23:31 huh? Feb 20 13:23:31 "I discovered this site abread (russia I guess) with all the answer to our assignments" Feb 20 13:23:37 the link: http://www.sm.luth.se/csee/courses/sms/028/engelska.html Feb 20 13:23:43 ... Feb 20 13:23:46 lol Feb 20 13:23:53 Yes, because .se means russia, you see. Feb 20 13:24:39 se=Singapore? Feb 20 13:24:46 .sg Feb 20 13:25:12 sweden Feb 20 13:25:51 se = sweden Feb 20 13:25:55 oops Feb 20 13:25:59 it was an example of how saying less can make you seem more intelligent Feb 20 13:26:20 and I did the opposite example as well Feb 20 13:26:38 nah, you were just making sure :) Feb 20 13:27:08 * koen thanks the swedes for using PDF instead of Word Feb 20 13:29:15 * koen goes back to cursing simulink for lacking a proper delta function Feb 20 13:29:56 So it looks like BT has a lower media layer with 27 upper layer "profiles", one of which is a2dp Feb 20 13:30:14 Probably a different API for each profile. Feb 20 13:37:20 DukeOfURL, are you adding a2dp support to openmoko so it will be more on par with iphone ?-) Feb 20 13:38:38 I would like to develop a headset emulator, over the USB cable as well as over BT. This is all a learning experience for me. Feb 20 13:40:16 the Neo would be the headset and the PC would run the softphone program. Feb 20 13:40:38 So when you're at your PC you wouldn't be using GSM Feb 20 13:41:36 nice Feb 20 13:41:38 you could (ab)use pulseaudio for that Feb 20 13:41:57 that already has network capabilities and should be installed on your desktop Feb 20 13:42:17 http://pulseaudio.org/ Feb 20 13:42:22 looks like the audio stream to a BT headset is 8KHz. would that be uLaw or aLaw? Feb 20 13:42:43 koen: had you problems with intltool while building openmoko-date? Feb 20 13:42:59 I had, and I solved them, see bugzilla Feb 20 13:43:05 ok Feb 20 13:43:20 thx Feb 20 13:45:27 I read somewhere that the Bluetooth organization tightly controls the name--that before you can say your device is BT compatible it must be blessed by the organization. Is this true? Feb 20 13:46:10 I remember that megabucks were involved in product certification Feb 20 13:46:36 correct Feb 20 13:47:02 koen: bugzilla.openmoko.org? Feb 20 13:47:21 Magon: yes Feb 20 13:47:31 cannot find it Feb 20 13:51:12 call it cyanjaws? :) Feb 20 14:15:36 counter? Feb 20 14:15:36 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, a day 21:10:35 (2.882 - 8.882 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, a day (24.882 - 39.882 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, a day (192.882 - 222.882 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (369) Feb 20 14:16:33 a month, a week, a day and many hours for upper limit of phase 1 Feb 20 14:17:12 * aloril2 wonders when preorders will be available Feb 20 14:23:26 * xkr47 didn't get the pc-based compilation going last time he tried Feb 20 14:23:54 but I was pretty tired and I think it was some cvs server of some matchbox-panel-2 or so that didn't answer Feb 20 14:23:59 might even be my firewall blocking :P Feb 20 14:34:02 * SpeedEvil also wonders when preorders may be available. Feb 20 14:34:18 If they are available early enough, they could speed up the second batch. Feb 20 14:34:33 Unless FIC get the prediction right (or wrong the other way) Feb 20 14:34:57 * prpplague is gonna order a couple as test platforms Feb 20 14:35:13 I can only afford one ATM. Feb 20 14:35:20 I'm going to be playing with adding hardware. Feb 20 14:36:06 I think first off is a torch, fitted next to the GPS antenna. Feb 20 14:36:40 * xkr47 wonders what to do if the phone bricks itself for example if the battery runs out or something Feb 20 14:37:11 Why would it brick itself then? Feb 20 14:37:28 SpeedEvil, maybe one of those torches with this magnetic thing - if you shake it, it generates electricity Feb 20 14:37:34 so you can charge your moko by shaking it :D Feb 20 14:37:50 SpeedEvil, I've heard my friends n800 did it just by battery discharging Feb 20 14:38:01 s/I've heard // Feb 20 14:38:01 xkr47 meant: SpeedEvil, my friends n800 did it just by battery discharging Feb 20 14:38:13 Yes! Let's call it the Free Alternative Power Moko Feb 20 14:38:19 Or FAP-Moko. Feb 20 14:38:23 :D Feb 20 14:38:43 To recap a post I made over on candlepowerforums. Feb 20 14:38:46 SpeedEvil: blue or white led ? Feb 20 14:38:55 The arm + moko weighs a couple of kilos. Feb 20 14:39:18 not to mention the leg! Feb 20 14:39:19 The magnet moving weighs maybe 20g, or 1% of the total weight. Feb 20 14:39:41 no blue leds! :P Feb 20 14:39:45 that are overused :) Feb 20 14:39:45 I think an external generator would be quite nice Feb 20 14:39:46 The efficiency of extracting the energy is perhaps 10% - for .1% overall efficiency. Feb 20 14:39:55 can we have one of the photon led colours? : Feb 20 14:39:58 So to charge at .1W, you need to provide 100W. Feb 20 14:39:58 if anyone know any sold online, let me know :) Feb 20 14:40:00 Personally. Feb 20 14:40:07 I'm going with a 1W Cree LED. Feb 20 14:40:18 As bright as a 4W halogen bulb. Feb 20 14:40:35 SpeedEvil: interesting, wonder what the current draw is Feb 20 14:40:42 1W, 3.?V Feb 20 14:40:49 350mA Feb 20 14:41:15 SpeedEvil: ahh had to do a double take, didn't realize you had 1W there Feb 20 14:41:26 SpeedEvil: not enough coffee eyt this morning Feb 20 14:41:36 I have a 12V 100mA 18-led halogen-cased light Feb 20 14:41:53 LEDs vary a hell of a lot though. Feb 20 14:41:54 SpeedEvil: hehe that's more than the entire rest of our 2440 system Feb 20 14:42:04 I put it on my bicycle, it works great, much brighter and less power Feb 20 14:42:12 You can easily get 10* variations in efficiency. Feb 20 14:42:26 The cree is nice in that at low powers it gets even more efficient. Feb 20 14:43:02 hi Feb 20 14:43:03 I'm probably wiring it across the vibrator motor, with a extra transistor. Feb 20 14:43:07 Hi. Feb 20 15:41:11 hello Feb 20 15:43:42 hey LuitvD. IIRC you were asking about the qemu images yesterday. i mailed the list. They're here: ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/developers/jebba/openmoko/ Feb 20 15:44:24 jebba: thnkx Feb 20 15:44:33 that was me :) Feb 20 15:45:14 I think the domain is a bit overbranded :) Feb 20 15:45:15 jebba: doesn't qemu need a .img file? Feb 20 15:45:35 .ext2 works Feb 20 15:46:17 oh wait, now I see how XD Feb 20 15:46:34 yeah, directly passing the ext2 file to the kernel Feb 20 15:48:22 thanks a lot :) Feb 20 15:48:54 does anyone know how to solve intltool problem in openmoko-devel-image? i cannot find the bug in bugzilla Feb 20 15:49:51 Magon: if there's no bugzilla report... then maybe it's an unknown bug? Feb 20 15:50:13 LuitvD: koen saied that he made a bug in bugzilla Feb 20 15:50:16 or you didn't search good enough Feb 20 15:50:37 lol Feb 20 15:51:05 koen: like I said... "if there is no ..." not "if you can't find a ..." Feb 20 15:51:24 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=intltool&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&c Feb 20 15:52:20 that's a nasty url :P Feb 20 15:52:20 i see just first 126 bugs....why?? Feb 20 15:52:26 btw thx Feb 20 15:53:52 openmoko: 03werner * r1052 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-splash.patch: Feb 20 15:53:52 openmoko: include/configs/neo1973.h: remove #if 1 ... #endif around video definitions Feb 20 15:53:52 openmoko: common/cmd_mem.c: new command "unzip srcaddr dstaddr [dstsize]" to unzip from Feb 20 15:53:52 openmoko: memory to memory, and option CONFIG_UNZIP to enable it Feb 20 15:54:57 koen: my pardon....i had choosed wrong status ;-(( Feb 20 15:57:36 I hope werner tries to get his stuff upstream too. Feb 20 15:57:38 Magon: filters, lol Feb 20 15:58:04 LuitvD: i have not noticed that filters Feb 20 15:58:26 btw: simply adding intltool to dependency is not solving this Feb 20 15:59:47 openmoko has too old intltool iirc for some stuff Feb 20 16:00:15 it have 0.35_rcXX Feb 20 16:00:41 and it is sufficent Feb 20 16:18:52 <_-InFeRnO-_> it seems that OpenMoko is considered to be ported to Greenphone Feb 20 16:19:47 openmoko: 03thomas * r1053 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-alignment.c: Feb 20 16:19:47 openmoko: * Remove access to private parent struct Feb 20 16:19:47 openmoko: * Don't set the padding in the size request. Fixes bug 186. Feb 20 16:19:57 _-InFeRnO-_: it would be nice... though I'd prefer to buy the FIC-neo1973 instead of the greenphone Feb 20 16:20:21 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes, but i find stylus and touch screen very unconfortable Feb 20 16:20:29 <_-InFeRnO-_> and VGA screen is way too big Feb 20 16:20:37 <_-InFeRnO-_> (i want to put it in my pocket) Feb 20 16:20:57 (featuring WiFi and a keypad doesn't make it 2x as expensive...) Feb 20 16:21:12 err... want to fit in in your pocket? the screen is 2,8" IIRC Feb 20 16:21:31 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes but its touchscreen Feb 20 16:21:36 <_-InFeRnO-_> it's very fragile Feb 20 16:21:40 not really.. Feb 20 16:21:47 <_-InFeRnO-_> i must remove it from the pocket Feb 20 16:22:22 my PDA is now being used without any extra pocket or case, and it's been that way for months Feb 20 16:22:26 without any problems Feb 20 16:22:30 touchscreens usually mean protective membrane...oh and don't keep your keys in the same pocket Feb 20 16:22:35 <_-InFeRnO-_> at least if i want the device to live atleast 3 yrs Feb 20 16:22:40 _-InFeRnO-_: and the Greenphone features a touchscreen too Feb 20 16:22:53 _-InFeRnO-_: then you should treat the device well :P Feb 20 16:22:59 smartphone-class device ==> touchscreen these days Feb 20 16:23:06 _-InFeRnO-_: there's a thing called "screen protector" Feb 20 16:23:18 <_-InFeRnO-_> even so, i find keypad more familiar Feb 20 16:23:30 _-InFeRnO-_: and the greenphone has a touchscreen too Feb 20 16:23:32 :) Feb 20 16:23:35 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 20 16:23:45 and is twice as expensive as the Neo1973 Feb 20 16:23:48 more then twice Feb 20 16:24:20 and less free Feb 20 16:24:28 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes, but a Neo1973 model with a keypad (with softkeys) and a TS protector i find very nice to have Feb 20 16:24:37 and the SDK of the greenphone is another FIC Neo1973 :P Feb 20 16:25:03 _-InFeRnO-_: a touchscreen protector is just a regular piece of adhesive plastic Feb 20 16:25:24 _-InFeRnO-_: universal screenprotectors work on every touchscreen device you know... Feb 20 16:25:31 <_-InFeRnO-_> maybe this is the case only with IPAQ Feb 20 16:25:47 <_-InFeRnO-_> (it says "remove device from pocket before sitting) Feb 20 16:27:18 jebba: the /etc/X11/Xserver you refer to in the README... is that in the .ext2 file? Feb 20 16:29:13 koen has a weird face Feb 20 16:29:43 <_-InFeRnO-_> people are different Feb 20 16:30:46 :P Feb 20 16:30:53 loufoque: wth? :P Feb 20 16:32:13 <_-InFeRnO-_> i wonder if N1973 is available in PRC Feb 20 16:32:13 or maybe I just confused a tree with his ear. Feb 20 16:32:20 <_-InFeRnO-_> (FIC is taiwanese) Feb 20 16:34:48 where to search for SRCDATE...just conf/site.conf or is there another location? Feb 20 16:38:02 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'm sorry for the stupid question, but is Neo1973 made by request of OpenMoko, or by initiative of FIC Feb 20 16:45:43 _-InFeRnO-_ - FIC. Feb 20 16:46:03 _-InFeRnO-_ - But FIC listens to the OpenMoko people for hardware design issues. Feb 20 16:48:25 So how does the OpenMoko community direct development? Is the Wiki a living design doc or is something else in use? Feb 20 16:50:17 pretty much. Feb 20 16:50:41 That, and the mailing lists. Feb 20 16:50:53 And project.openmoko.org Feb 20 16:51:33 At the moment - the number of devs with hardware is 4? In a weekish, it rises to 50 Feb 20 16:51:35 s/project/projects/ I think. Feb 20 16:51:40 yeah Feb 20 16:51:45 well - 54 Feb 20 16:52:00 So I expect discussion to rise at that point. Feb 20 16:52:02 Is the initial run only 50 units?! Feb 20 16:52:11 For phase 0 developers Feb 20 16:52:23 In phase 1 - late march, ayone can buy. Feb 20 16:52:26 for $350 Feb 20 16:52:38 and that'll presumably be several hundred units. Feb 20 16:52:54 Yea thats when I plan on nabbing one Feb 20 16:53:02 With further batches if those all sell in 6 weeks. Feb 20 16:53:45 I just wish GSM was cheaper here ;) Feb 20 16:54:25 here=? Feb 20 16:54:52 Texas/USA Feb 20 16:55:03 Ah. Feb 20 16:55:18 Here it's relatively cheap - but GPRS is still pounds/meg. Feb 20 16:58:55 SpeedEvil - BTW: is the usb connector at the neo side (mini-usb-dunno) hutplug-able? Or only the side to the PC? Feb 20 16:59:26 * Elixir- thinks it looks hotpluggable Feb 20 16:59:47 Elixir- - Yeah. I'd assume so too. Just want to be sure. Feb 20 17:00:15 For example the device side of magellan units definitely is not hutpluggable. Feb 20 17:00:15 <_-InFeRnO-_> here (bulgaria) UMTS is 5 leva per MB Feb 20 17:00:20 <_-InFeRnO-_> 5 leva = 2.5 EUR Feb 20 17:00:30 <_-InFeRnO-_> it's relatively cheap Feb 20 17:00:35 ~change 5 leva to eur Feb 20 17:00:39 5.00 Dollar (ZWN) makes 0.0152180 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 20 17:00:50 hoho Feb 20 17:01:05 apt, cluehammer yourself Feb 20 17:01:10 <_-InFeRnO-_> ~change 5 bgn to eur Feb 20 17:01:15 5.00 Lev (BGN) makes 2.55401 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 20 17:01:21 <_-InFeRnO-_> ha ha Feb 20 17:01:28 *G* Feb 20 17:01:41 <_-InFeRnO-_> actually Feb 20 17:01:46 <_-InFeRnO-_> ~change 4.9 bgn to eur Feb 20 17:01:51 4.90 Lev (BGN) makes 2.50320 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 20 17:01:57 <_-InFeRnO-_> exactly Feb 20 17:01:58 Elrond: what do you mean hotpluggable? Why would it not be? Feb 20 17:02:28 Acting as a device - certainly, it's just a cable. Feb 20 17:02:29 *munch* *munch* Feb 20 17:02:55 Acting as a host - it's rather more complex, as some hubs don't like hosts with no power. Feb 20 17:03:05 In no case should the neo catch fire. Feb 20 17:03:09 SpeedEvil - I think, usb hotplugability (at least for devices without battery) depends on the right order of pins getting out, etc. Feb 20 17:03:49 Generally Feb 20 17:04:09 it seems to work just fine - if you pretend that 5V is always connected Feb 20 17:04:18 For the neo that is. Feb 20 17:04:27 The data line connection order is not specified Feb 20 17:05:29 I'm basing this off experience with plugging other stuff into powered-all-the-time adaptors. Feb 20 17:06:14 Some magellan units specifically note, that you first should unplug at the pc, then at the unit (the connector at the unit are big connections plates at the back. Much like a mini-docking-station. You can't guarantee ordering there.) Feb 20 17:06:35 That's pretty irrelevant - none of the USB wires care. Feb 20 17:09:35 is a regular 3-wire 2,5mm jackplug dangerous in the 4-wire 2,5mm jackplug socket of the neo? Feb 20 17:09:47 no. Feb 20 17:09:56 the connections are the same. Feb 20 17:10:13 it's only the 'end' connector whihh is used for the headset IITC Feb 20 17:10:13 IIRC Feb 20 17:10:13 So you basicly say "It might not be spec'd for hutpluggability, but it generally works out good"? Feb 20 17:10:29 (for usb) Feb 20 17:10:30 USB is specced for hotplug. Feb 20 17:10:55 The Neo isn't quite USB compliant. Feb 20 17:11:03 But in general, mostly works. Feb 20 17:11:03 Doesn't the spec require pin-order for unplugging to be compliant? Feb 20 17:11:33 It may require it - the worst that'll happen is a slightly unclean shutdown. Feb 20 17:12:05 Hmm. Feb 20 17:12:09 I doubt even that though. Feb 20 17:12:32 And if the USB stack gets notified in 50ms later than it should after an error timeout, it doesn't really matter. Feb 20 17:14:06 Good evening. I'm new here - just want to say hi. I have a small question: is the Neo1973 still going to be available within the next month if you're interested in developing to it? Feb 20 17:14:25 yes Feb 20 17:14:29 counter Feb 20 17:14:29 P0: a week, a day 18:11:41 (2.758 - 8.758 days); P1: 24.758 - 39.758; P2: 192.758 - 222.758 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (370) Feb 20 17:14:33 mikl-dk - Try: "/msg aloril2 counter?" Feb 20 17:14:41 sometime next month Feb 20 17:14:50 mikl-dk - Try: "/msg aloril counter?" Feb 20 17:14:54 That way. Feb 20 17:14:57 ahh, cheers, SpeedEvil and Elrond Feb 20 17:16:04 SpeedEvil - What is not usb compliant on the neo? Feb 20 17:16:39 how many "specially selected developers" are there - just wondering :-)? Feb 20 17:17:44 mikl-dk - The rumours say 50. Feb 20 17:19:05 Elrond, okay :-) Well, I look forward to being able to order this little bastard of a mobile beauty :-) Feb 20 17:21:33 I will wait at least until some people have done some basic testing.(How robust is it? How long does the battery life in the real world? Is the gps really comparable to a sirfIII? That sort of questions) Feb 20 17:22:42 "does the software actually do anything?" is also a good criteria Feb 20 17:22:49 yeah - maybe; but I hope to have the money to get one to "play" with - but I'm studying so the money are not just floating around :-) Feb 20 17:22:52 hmm, what would be the best option... €2,38/MB, or €0,24/min? Feb 20 17:23:00 criterium even Feb 20 17:23:11 koen - Oh you mean like "Does it at least work as a normal phone?" ;o) Feb 20 17:23:16 (for GPRS+EDGE+HSDPA) Feb 20 17:23:27 (and UMTS) Feb 20 17:23:38 Elrond: right now the addressbook and calender app don't work Feb 20 17:24:05 well, they display, but you can't add, edit or import stuff Feb 20 17:24:15 Oh well. Feb 20 17:24:20 and building head image is a bit pain ;-) Feb 20 17:24:53 Whose your carrier? The company I work for has a decent unlimited HSDPA/UMTS/EDGE/GPRS plan. Feb 20 17:25:14 * koen has never used the svn bbcollection, too many bugs Feb 20 17:25:21 Well, for the mum-dad-phase, this all has to become rockstable. Feb 20 17:25:58 koen: i have fixed the eds-dbus to prodide right header, but still get dates.desktop no rules...how did you solved this one? Feb 20 17:26:14 maybe when people get their heads out of their ass^W^W^Wemulater they might start bugfixing Feb 20 17:26:25 high-rez: t-mobile has an unlimited-internet plan too... 9,50 on top of the normal costs Feb 20 17:26:46 i am just trying to build it..than start bugfixing Feb 20 17:26:57 but i need at least compileable head Feb 20 17:27:06 I fixed it OE, and mickeyl fixed it in svn Feb 20 17:27:08 Luitvd: Are you .eu or .us? TMobile hasn't deployed a WCDMA network (hsdpa/umts) in the US yet. Feb 20 17:27:09 koen - Yeah. I hope, that P0 will give lots of bug fixes. Feb 20 17:27:44 i am updating eo... Feb 20 17:28:15 Magon: updating OE won;t help if you use the svn bbcollection Feb 20 17:28:23 high-rez: europe... the netherlands does have HSDPA coverage of nearly 50% i guess... Feb 20 17:28:59 high-rez: though, I won't be able to use it for my to-be openmoko device Feb 20 17:29:01 Elrond: if people need the 'real device' placebo to start developing I don't have high hopes for the amount or quality of bugfixes Feb 20 17:29:15 koen: i use svn..so where is it fixed? Feb 20 17:29:49 but is €2,38 / MB a decent GRPS traffic cost? Feb 20 17:30:12 Sounds high to me, I'd rather pay the 9.50 for unlimited. Feb 20 17:30:14 LuitvD: no Feb 20 17:30:20 koen - I can't convince myself to setup the buildenv for my desktop yet. So the placebo might get me to do it ;) Feb 20 17:30:30 koen: why not? Feb 20 17:30:35 * koen pays €17,50/month for 1GB Feb 20 17:30:39 :O Feb 20 17:30:41 koen: where Feb 20 17:30:47 koen: which carrier? Feb 20 17:30:48 wirelesscircle.nl Feb 20 17:30:57 kpn/telfort Feb 20 17:31:25 Is telefort any good? They would let my device register (cosmote) but I could never figure out how to make a call while I was in the .nl on telefort. Feb 20 17:31:35 koen: that's a nice one :D Feb 20 17:31:58 thanks Feb 20 17:33:43 Man, I wish you could buy prepay sims at schipol. ;( Feb 20 17:34:53 high-rez: lol, found a shop :) Feb 20 17:35:01 found ... euhh... create? Feb 20 17:35:46 LuitvD: Come again? Feb 20 17:36:21 LuitvD: Are you sayin there's a shop in schipol (airport) that sells prepaid sims? :D Feb 20 17:36:23 high-rez: you should start a shop for prepaid cards at schiphol :P Feb 20 17:36:36 <_-InFeRnO-_> BTW why you have chosen GPRS and not EDGE or UMTS Feb 20 17:37:03 _-InFeRnO-_: you mean for the device? Feb 20 17:37:11 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 20 17:37:12 EDGE == gprs Feb 20 17:37:15 :P Feb 20 17:37:21 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 20 17:37:21 really? Feb 20 17:37:24 <_-InFeRnO-_> but edge is faster Feb 20 17:37:38 multislot gprs, e-gprs, edge all the same thing Feb 20 17:37:52 <_-InFeRnO-_> ok, and why not UMTS Feb 20 17:38:03 "we need a different word, it's FASTER!!" - gsm marketing dude Feb 20 17:38:04 LuitvD: Hey, I'm sure it would be great business. I bet the airpor has a regulation against it though, otherwise one of the 10000 electronics stores in the airport would sell em. ;) I was through schipol 6 times last year. Feb 20 17:38:40 high-rez: you sure they don't? Feb 20 17:38:50 high-rez: hmm... maybe the electronics stores don't know there's a market in prepaid-sims :P Feb 20 17:38:54 * koen ponders about buying a prepaid sim at recife airport Feb 20 17:39:07 recife? Feb 20 17:39:38 UMTS (wcdma) considerations would be cost for the chipset (due to all of the patents involved), battery life associated with it, and the fact that it's a fairly segmented market at the moment. Feb 20 17:40:25 LarstiQ: Man I looked all over for one. I don't think they sell them as it would compete with the communications desk / phone card provider. It's truly lame though. Feb 20 17:42:14 high-rez: I'll look around in ~3 weeks when I'm at schiphol Feb 20 17:42:24 that reminds me.... Feb 20 17:42:44 vaccination against yellow fever Feb 20 17:42:45 * LuitvD has never been near any airport :) Feb 20 17:42:49 high-rez: weird, I'd expect them to be sold alongside power plugs Feb 20 17:43:08 koen: where're you going then? Feb 20 17:43:12 koen: Let me know if you find one there. My wife is going to be roaming through schipol. The Cosmote sim I had would roam onto the providers there, but didn't seem to be able to make a call. Feb 20 17:43:48 LuitvD: http://www.bossaconference.org/public.php Feb 20 17:44:19 high-rez: schiphol does have *really* bad reception with any network Feb 20 17:44:51 it could be your antenna wasn't beefy enough Feb 20 17:44:55 hmm, another approach for crosscompiling? Feb 20 17:44:59 koen: I was going a voice recording, but i couldn't understand what was being said when I tried to dial out. Feb 20 17:45:10 ah Feb 20 17:45:28 I hate those Feb 20 17:45:33 koen: That said, I can understand the but about poor reception. Additionally, I only have a 850/1800/19000mhz device - so I wasn't able to try the 900mhz providers. Feb 20 17:45:36 they are always in a language I don't understand Feb 20 17:46:10 koen: Yeah, in this case it was in dutch. :) My dutch skills are lacking. :) Feb 20 17:47:23 I love going to .eu but the 10 hour flight to schipol sucks. Feb 20 17:48:19 schiphol is a mess behind the scenes Feb 20 17:48:29 especially the MPs guarding it Feb 20 17:49:04 koen: I never left the "international area". I really need to one day and go see amsterdam. Feb 20 17:50:47 schipol is amsterdam right? Feb 20 17:50:58 close Feb 20 17:51:28 noidd: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=nl&q=schiphol,+nederland&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.900485,74.970703&ie=UTF8&z=11&ll=52.349183,4.774933&spn=0.15561,0.810928&om=1 Feb 20 17:51:39 I vaugly remember that through my sex + drug induced haze Feb 20 18:05:05 I jumped onto a United flight in Dallas, just as they were closing the doors. Thought I was going to Frankfurt. The flight landed at Schipol. Had a great time in Holland! Feb 20 18:11:43 DukeOfURL: You're lucky you didn't get shot ;) Feb 20 18:14:39 Heh. I almost did get shot once at Zurich airport. I grabbed my suitcase off the cart while walking on the tarmac and into the terminal building. They *really* didn't like that... Feb 20 18:15:08 Those Swiss guards with the machine guns sure are big! Feb 20 18:15:31 Aye, I wouldn't try that with the French ones either Feb 20 18:15:52 openmoko: 03laforge * r1054 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: Add headphone insertion GPIO to list of gta01kbd resources Feb 20 18:17:10 openmoko: 03laforge * r1055 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: Feb 20 18:17:10 openmoko: Implement suspend/resume for those registers of the PMU that don't survive Feb 20 18:17:10 openmoko: STANDBY mode. This might be bogus, since we can't switch the PMU to standby Feb 20 18:17:10 openmoko: in Power_off CPU mode anyway. Anyway, it doesn't make things worse to have it ;) Feb 20 18:17:52 openmoko: 03laforge * r1056 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-inputdevice.patch: Feb 20 18:17:53 openmoko: * add HOLD key support to gta01kbd Feb 20 18:17:53 openmoko: * make both HOLD and 911 key events wake-up sources Feb 20 18:18:29 Gotta reboot for the new OSX security updates. Feb 20 18:19:34 openmoko: 03laforge * r1057 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-mmc.patch: Feb 20 18:19:34 openmoko: cosmetic cleanup, as requested by u-boot folks Feb 20 18:19:34 openmoko: * use 'debug' function rather than custom macros Feb 20 18:19:34 openmoko: * fix indentation Feb 20 18:20:44 openmoko: 03laforge * r1058 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch: Incorporate cleanup as per u-boot developers reviews Feb 20 18:21:45 openmoko: 03laforge * r1059 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-neo1973-resume.patch): add (not yet working) suspend/resume from/to RAM support (Ben Dooks) Feb 20 18:24:53 Hmmm. I don't feel any more secure. Feb 20 18:25:37 re Feb 20 18:38:22 Hi, I have openmoko running in qemu-arm, but is there a quick/easy way to get a cursor? Feb 20 18:39:02 alt-tab to rxvt and you can see it on that screen. ;) It really is there, you just can't see it. Feb 20 18:40:16 jebba: thanks, that's one way to do it :) Feb 20 18:44:43 Two or three years ago I read where a Japanese company was offering cat translation--it supposedly translated your pet cat's meows into human speech. Was this a put-on, or is there really such a device? Feb 20 18:45:06 such a device exists; whether or not it actually works is an exercise to the buyer Feb 20 18:45:24 they also have devices that can supposedly translate dog barks and baby noises Feb 20 18:45:26 If it was for real, can you imagine how many Neos we could sell with this application... Feb 20 18:49:24 DukeOfURL - *lol* Feb 20 18:50:10 Not kidding. One must be a cat/dog lover to realize the importance of knowing what your pet is telling you. Feb 20 18:50:45 A portable device like the Neo would be perfect. Feb 20 18:51:07 yeah. Feb 20 18:51:12 'Take this damn phone off me, it's heavy'. Feb 20 18:51:14 Just give your cat a Neo and she can call you whenever she wants. Feb 20 18:51:16 I wonder, wether the builtin mic is good enough. Feb 20 18:51:31 [OT] http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/03/24/tech.dogs.language.reut/index.html Feb 20 18:51:45 A BT dongle hanging from the cat collar... Feb 20 18:52:00 :=) Feb 20 18:52:08 SpeedEvil - *g* :-)) Feb 20 18:52:29 I see I'm driving people off the IRC. ok, enough cat talk Feb 20 18:53:34 Next the cat will use the neo to open the bt-powered door. ;) Feb 20 18:54:19 With my cats, it would be the refridgerator door... Feb 20 18:56:02 On a serious note... Feb 20 18:56:32 Wont be long until they rule the world. :) Feb 20 18:56:36 Cat claws are bad for touchscreens. Feb 20 18:57:09 I've lost a lot of my hearing, and hearing aids don't filter the ambient (background) noise. The ambient noise is a problem when trying to understand speech. Feb 20 18:57:28 SpeedEvil - They'll control the neo by meowing anyway. ;) Feb 20 18:58:01 With the Neo and some signal processing, one could filter the ambient noise without having to purchase a $2500 hearing aid. Feb 20 18:58:47 DukeOfURL - Don't expect too much from the CPU. It's like a Pentoum at 200MHz or so. Feb 20 18:59:39 Heh. Are you odl enough to remember the Z80? We did a lot of stuff on that one. Feb 20 18:59:46 old Feb 20 19:00:18 z80? Feb 20 19:00:23 hehe Feb 20 19:00:27 koen_ - yeah. ;) Feb 20 19:00:28 almost every highschool kid has one nowadays Feb 20 19:00:28 koen_: zx81 Feb 20 19:00:41 koen_: i have a whole box of those, hehe Feb 20 19:00:44 with those TI83 graphing calculators Feb 20 19:01:02 the only assembly I enjoyed writing :) Feb 20 19:01:41 address space was 64K Feb 20 19:01:46 Hmm. In those days I playd with 8890 (370 clones) running VM/ESX ;o) Feb 20 19:02:03 yup. 1ms cycle time. Feb 20 19:02:24 s/1ms/1us/ micro sec Feb 20 19:03:05 DukeOfURL - Hmm... an order 20 IIR should work out, yes... Don't know if that is good enough filtering. Feb 20 19:05:18 maybe, is there's any room left on the board, sean could give us a signal processing IC Feb 20 19:06:26 Seriously, how many hearing disabled persons would like to use a cell phone? Feb 20 19:06:45 I have no idea. Feb 20 19:07:30 Who would tune the IIR for them? Feb 20 19:12:03 ? Feb 20 19:14:36 The CPU can be put in both sides. Feb 20 19:14:41 And can do pitch bending. Feb 20 19:14:59 So if you can't hear high pitched, it can reduce frequency. Feb 20 19:16:06 SpeedEvil - Yeah. Feb 20 19:16:41 tihi, the neo can be used for voice obfuscation ;) Feb 20 19:17:13 uhm Feb 20 19:17:26 isnt the gsm module connected to the microphone directly Feb 20 19:17:31 No. Feb 20 19:17:39 buz - No. Feb 20 19:17:40 It's connected through the sound mixers. Feb 20 19:17:47 but analog yes? Feb 20 19:17:58 The gsm is analog, yes. Feb 20 19:18:03 yes. Feb 20 19:18:04 window show 2 Feb 20 19:18:11 Which is a bit annoying. Feb 20 19:18:16 So for any "through CPU", it's always ADC->DAC. Feb 20 19:18:34 It'd be nice if we could throw raw 'GSM' data to it. Feb 20 19:19:26 I note that voice codec data is 13K, which with FEC and lots of error coding could be fun. Feb 20 19:19:52 FEC? Feb 20 19:20:04 Forward Error Correction Feb 20 19:20:12 Ahh. Feb 20 19:20:23 Basically - you add correction bits, in the knowledge that there will be errors. Feb 20 19:20:32 Rather than correct afterwards. Feb 20 19:20:38 Yeah, I know. Feb 20 19:21:01 Shouldn't libgsm do all that fun for us? Feb 20 19:21:10 (not libgsmd) Feb 20 19:21:22 No - the modem does all of this on its own. Feb 20 19:22:19 Yes, I know. Feb 20 19:22:50 But IF we could send raw data, libgsm should do the encoding for us. So it should be easy. Feb 20 19:23:04 In theory Feb 20 19:23:13 the modem may not let us Feb 20 19:27:22 if we could send raw data there would be no purpose to the proprietary libgsm Feb 20 19:27:50 loufoque - libgsmd is not proprietary. Feb 20 19:28:37 At least I would be very surprised, if it was. That would really kill the base point of the phone. Feb 20 19:28:40 I didn't write libgsmd Feb 20 19:29:47 loufoque - libgsm is in debian main. Feb 20 19:29:57 Anyone tried native (i686) builds? MACHINE=fic-gta01 and qemuarm worked fine with the fixes from the wiki. Feb 20 19:31:18 Elrond: I don't know what the components of the gsm stack is, I just meant that we couldn't send raw data since there was some proprietary things somewhere trying to control what's being sent Feb 20 19:32:43 loufoque - _inside_ the gsm module. Which is outside the cpu. Feb 20 19:33:37 ubuntu seems a wee bit weird Feb 20 19:33:44 where did qemuarm get lost Feb 20 19:36:00 counter Feb 20 19:36:00 P0: a week, a day 15:50:09 (2.660 - 8.660 days); P1: 24.660 - 39.660; P2: 192.660 - 222.660 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (371) Feb 20 19:37:04 Elrond: dont expect more then 2400bit/s thru speech gsm channel. under best conditions. Feb 20 19:38:01 hm, that little? I got ~9600 off tdma back in the day Feb 20 19:38:23 leventhal: via data channel yes. but they talked about the gsm speech channel I assume Feb 20 19:38:25 I really doubt 2400. Feb 20 19:38:44 The GSM codec is an encryption - for all purposes. Feb 20 19:38:58 It converts bit errors mostly into things that sound similar. Feb 20 19:38:58 SpeedEvil: no that is also some compression Feb 20 19:39:44 If you then try to reverse what it sounds like to reconstruct what the non-errored wavelenth was, it gets horribly complex. Feb 20 19:40:12 non-errored bitstream Feb 20 19:40:31 its complex yes. Feb 20 19:41:05 there is a modem on the market. 2400 bit/s. max. Feb 20 19:41:14 Oh - in that case... Feb 20 19:41:29 I'm not arguing with extant hardware, that'd be silly :) Feb 20 19:41:53 "people saying it's impossible should not interfere with people doing it" Feb 20 19:42:14 2400 is quite an achievement. Feb 20 19:42:26 SpeedEvil: you need some DSP or a powerful cpu Feb 20 19:42:34 Lots of. Feb 20 19:42:41 and all these a/d d/a converter are not very helpful Feb 20 19:42:46 True. Feb 20 19:43:04 You have to do the 56K - alike thing. Feb 20 19:43:08 stefan_schmidt: I saw your post at planet-openmoko. On HTC universal we have Openmoko running. I have also managed to receive a call, but we havent got the sounddriver ready yet so there where no sound. Feb 20 19:43:32 Especially if you don't have greater than the output of the GSM board A/D than D/A Feb 20 19:44:04 goxboxlive: Neat. You really need a complete sound driver or only audio routing. Feb 20 19:44:14 I have also tried to make calls, but it dies when trying. I have to look further in to it, but anyway openmoko runs ok Feb 20 19:44:40 goxboxlive: On EZX it seems we only need audio routing. BP handles audio on is own. Feb 20 19:45:06 goxboxlive: Anyway, one more reason to play with a HTC device at some point. :) Feb 20 19:45:09 I know, cr2 is looking in to it, and some other guy is trying to make a asoc driver. Feb 20 19:45:23 goxboxlive: nice Feb 20 19:45:29 goxboxlive: I merged in htc-universal support into the xserver startup scripts openmoko uses, so if you're building for the universal, don't use the OE stuff from openmoko svn Feb 20 19:46:03 SpeedEvil: in german: http://www.virtualuniversity.ch/telekom/modem/20.html Feb 20 19:46:09 koen: ok Feb 20 19:46:25 goxboxlive: We'll perhaps try a small audio-routing-only hack first and start porting to ASoC afterwards. Audio drivers are still a bit scarry for me. :) Feb 20 19:46:39 cr2 says the same Feb 20 19:47:12 goxboxlive: ASoC is the right way, but I never done audio stuff before.:) Feb 20 19:47:29 we had the same problem with gomunicator and uucp. The soundchip is quite complex on uni Feb 20 19:47:35 i c Feb 20 19:48:14 goxboxlive: Seems sounds chips on phones are always strange. The EZX stuff is... eh ... strange. Feb 20 19:48:43 goxboxlive: What would be the best HTC to play with? Feb 20 19:48:43 yes i have heard that Feb 20 19:48:52 goxboxlive: Will you be at FOSDEM? Feb 20 19:49:04 Well if you ask me i think the HTC Universal because of it's screen Feb 20 19:49:40 no, i will not join the FOSDEM. Feb 20 19:49:52 ok, 640x480? Feb 20 19:49:55 yes Feb 20 19:49:57 It's a pity Feb 20 19:50:00 and querty Feb 20 19:50:06 usual price? Feb 20 19:50:35 SpeedEvil: leventhal : in english http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/N.Katugampala/pubs/iee03.pdf part 2 Feb 20 19:50:37 very interesting Feb 20 19:50:38 i dont know now, but i guess ebay is a goos place. It's still expensive here in Norway Feb 20 19:50:46 * stefan_schmidt just kicks of a native build for openmoko. Feb 20 19:50:56 I mean the only think Universal is missing is gps Feb 20 19:51:05 goxboxlive: OK, I'll take a look. Feb 20 19:51:20 I have just bought a A780 now Feb 20 19:51:27 Got it on Ebay Feb 20 19:51:28 goxboxlive: In one week I'll have two GPS phones anyway. ;) Feb 20 19:51:33 :-) Feb 20 19:51:43 goxboxlive: Ah, with GPS this time? Feb 20 19:51:47 yes Feb 20 19:51:49 :-) Feb 20 19:51:56 sweet Feb 20 19:53:02 goxboxlive: Is that the one you mean? http://cgi.ebay.de/VPA-IV-HTC-Universal-Qtek-9000-neuwertig_W0QQitemZ190085029743QQihZ009QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Feb 20 19:53:34 yes thats the onbe Feb 20 19:54:12 It comes as diffrents branding, QTEK 9000, I-mate JasJar and so om Feb 20 19:54:46 goxboxlive: Not that cheap. Seems I have to wait . :( Feb 20 19:55:13 goxboxlive: A search for QTEK 9000 gives some cheaper results. Feb 20 19:55:30 goxboxlive: Some times branding is funny Feb 20 19:55:48 oh, even umts. cool Feb 20 19:55:48 :-) yes still expensive. It's succesor is just about to enter the market (with 5" and gps) so i guess it will drop in the next months Feb 20 19:56:02 everything beside gps and edge Feb 20 19:56:37 nice Feb 20 19:56:47 I'll have a look at it. Feb 20 19:57:06 http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Universal Feb 20 19:57:39 well, Prison Break is calling. bbl Feb 20 19:57:59 bye Feb 20 20:00:41 openmoko: 03laforge * r1060 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01_2.6.20.bb: bump to 2.6.20.1 kernel to get nfs bugfix Feb 20 20:04:48 openmoko: 03laforge * r1061 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 2.6.20.1 gets a different bbfile and defconfig Feb 20 20:13:48 jebba: do you think both mounting the .ext2 file and using it in qemu can go wrong? Feb 20 20:14:13 yes, yes it can Feb 20 20:14:44 mjr: ah, okay :P Feb 20 20:15:26 if you want it available on both, use nfs or something over the simulated network Feb 20 20:15:45 :P Feb 20 20:16:15 or just edit the settings in the virtual serial terminal Feb 20 20:21:56 anybody else using the qemuarm build of openmoko? Feb 20 20:22:09 if so, how do I rotate the screen? :P Feb 20 20:23:04 * cjb would be using the openmoko build of openmoko if he could get the battery to charge. :) Feb 20 20:24:44 * buz grumbles about building qemu by hand Feb 20 20:25:39 LuitvD: see the developers lists Feb 20 20:25:42 cjb: you have a device already? Feb 20 20:25:49 koen: okay... Feb 20 20:25:51 LuitvD: mickeyl answered that a few hours ago Feb 20 20:26:01 good, Feb 20 20:26:07 * LuitvD starts to google for answers Feb 20 20:26:37 lists.openmoko.org -> devel -> by date would be faster Feb 20 20:27:52 LuitvD: yeah, a friend has one and brought it into work. Feb 20 20:29:47 * LuitvD wants one too... Feb 20 20:30:14 you and the rest of the channel Feb 20 20:30:32 cjb: did you see the screen in action yet, or was the battery completely dead? Feb 20 20:31:05 koen: dead so far. apparently it works if you hack the requisite voltage onto the other end of a USB cable, so we'll do that. Feb 20 20:33:39 cjb: yeah, it should trigger the charging circuit if no communication was received in ~30 secs Feb 20 20:33:51 so any 'dumb' usb charger should work Feb 20 20:34:08 like one for a blackberry? Feb 20 20:35:56 the ones with a wallsocket plug and a usb plug Feb 20 20:36:40 too bad i have one of those Feb 20 20:36:44 cjb: does the olpc have bt? Feb 20 20:37:44 * koen reads http://laptop.org/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml Feb 20 20:38:05 koen afaik not Feb 20 20:38:17 it's missing from the spec page Feb 20 20:38:25 last i heard you need a usb dongle for it Feb 20 20:38:43 what do you need BT for on OLPC Feb 20 20:38:55 to use the neo for internet access :) Feb 20 20:39:12 well, you can do that with usb too :] Feb 20 20:39:19 rofl Feb 20 20:39:33 that thing is harder to come by than neos ;) Feb 20 20:39:40 * koen is too lazy to remove phone from pockets most of the time Feb 20 20:39:51 especially if I'm stuck in a small seat Feb 20 20:39:57 i.e train and bus Feb 20 20:40:26 koen but as long as http://www.golem.de/0702/50615.html is true... i think it will be a big flop Feb 20 20:41:35 heh Feb 20 20:41:41 * koen loves kill-switches Feb 20 20:44:54 so... mickeyl built a patch for the qemuarm rotation config... and it needs to be rebuilt to use that? Feb 20 20:47:23 haha, wtf, sg1 are using alienware laptops Feb 20 20:47:37 wrtong room Feb 20 20:47:41 but still :P Feb 20 20:51:13 :)_ Feb 20 21:06:47 Any thoughts on an FSK modem on top of GSM? For short bursts of data? Feb 20 21:12:18 is the TI GPRS module a class-A GPRS device? Feb 20 21:14:05 apparently B Feb 20 21:14:13 not sure though Feb 20 21:14:45 class A would be nice :) Feb 20 21:14:51 well Feb 20 21:14:55 * mjr doesn't speak much with phones :] Feb 20 21:16:21 DukeOfURL: seee the earlier refereenced PDF Feb 20 21:16:57 today? Feb 20 21:17:07 yes Feb 20 21:17:11 4 hours ago? Feb 20 21:17:15 /last pdf Feb 20 21:17:16 oops Feb 20 21:17:26 2024] SpeedEvil: leventhal : in english Feb 20 21:17:26 http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/N.Katugampala/pubs/iee03.pdf Feb 20 21:17:26 part 2 Feb 20 21:19:46 got it, thx Feb 20 21:23:40 lol, I wonder ... would a USB HSDPA modem work on the gsmd? Feb 20 21:25:40 Just out of curosity, was the previous discussion about encryption or about data over GSM? Feb 20 21:25:50 speech encryption? Feb 20 21:28:02 speech encryption I guess... Feb 20 21:29:21 It's generic data over GSM voice. Feb 20 21:29:32 You can put voice there if you want. Feb 20 21:31:10 What about DTMF? How does DTMF handle it? Feb 20 21:31:22 How does GSM handle DTMF? Feb 20 21:31:34 Yes, it can do DTMF Feb 20 21:33:25 counter? Feb 20 21:33:25 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, a day 13:52:44 (2.578 - 8.578 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, a day (24.578 - 39.578 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, a day (192.578 - 222.578 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (372) Feb 20 21:34:10 * LuitvD loves Beryl :) Feb 20 21:48:46 win 26 Feb 20 21:48:53 loose 38 Feb 20 21:51:00 win 42 Feb 20 21:51:13 * al3x won Feb 20 22:00:10 dtmf is only via signalling channel done. Feb 20 22:21:58 hi Feb 20 22:24:45 I'm wondering if you can access the serial console via Neo-USB <-> Debug Board <-> Notebook or if you need to take apart the neo and use the "debug-port connector"? The wiki isn't entirely clear on this part. Feb 20 22:25:01 Serial via usb works fine. Feb 20 22:25:21 SpeedEvil: excellent, thanks =) Feb 20 22:25:21 The debug board is only for when you _really_ have problems. Feb 20 22:26:50 so one can indeed access kernel messages and similiar things via Neo's normal USB port? Feb 20 22:27:04 I presume so, and do other USB-serial stuff over it. Feb 20 22:27:18 I mean serial-console Feb 20 22:27:35 righto Feb 20 22:27:36 I don't know if you get the messages before the USB subsystem comes up. Feb 20 22:27:59 That's what I was wondering ;) As USB is usually brought up quite late Feb 20 22:28:16 Remember - it's a USB gadget, it's not a USB host. Feb 20 22:28:24 I don't know where that's brought up. Feb 20 22:28:39 s/where/when/ Feb 20 22:28:39 SpeedEvil meant: I don't know when that's brought up. Feb 20 22:28:57 yeah, well, we'll see heh Feb 20 22:29:14 * SpeedEvil ponders how much a debug board is. Feb 20 22:29:32 And if extra debug flex cables'd be available. Feb 20 22:30:52 * LuitvD might want a debug board too Feb 20 22:31:21 Someone hinted the P0 phones ship w/ one Feb 20 22:31:33 Someone stated flat out that they did. Feb 20 22:31:47 I don't remember if it was here or the ML. Feb 20 22:31:48 CoreDump|home: it was stated by Werner on the list as a direct answer to my direct question :-) Feb 20 22:31:57 Optional extra for P1. Feb 20 22:32:02 * CoreDump|home cheers Feb 20 22:33:14 hmm Feb 20 22:33:30 but for how much? with the P1 devices... Feb 20 22:33:48 in most cases you wont have to use the debug board Feb 20 22:33:59 it is of zero use for application development Feb 20 22:34:09 people have done driver development without JTAG debugging for ages Feb 20 22:34:18 righto Feb 20 22:34:44 What's brought out on the debug board? AIUI, there is JTAG, and a serial port. Is it more than that? Feb 20 22:34:49 of course, using the OpenOCD is the right thing (tm) ;) - but maybe I'm biased Feb 20 22:35:41 SpeedEvil: a USB hub I guess... Feb 20 22:36:07 I meant on the connector Feb 20 22:36:24 the board has - IIRC a parallel port - sorta - and a serial port and hub. Feb 20 22:36:56 counter Feb 20 22:36:56 P0: a week, a day 12:49:12 (2.534 - 8.534 days); P1: 24.534 - 39.534; P2: 192.534 - 222.534 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (373) Feb 20 22:37:25 the parallel port talks to the JTAG bits, and the serial port to the internal serial port. Feb 20 22:37:38 SpeedEvil: Only v1 Feb 20 22:37:54 SpeedEvil: v2 uses a ftdi chip for jatg and serial Feb 20 22:38:02 Ah. Feb 20 22:38:07 SpeedEvil: USB connection to host Feb 20 22:38:15 SpeedEvil: Power over usb Feb 20 22:38:17 I'd forgotten aout the spiffier FTDU chips Feb 20 22:38:31 Will P0-people get that board? Feb 20 22:38:35 SpeedEvil: and a usb hub the psb Feb 20 22:38:48 Elrond: I hope so. :) Feb 20 22:39:02 00:05 < rwhitby> CoreDump|home: it was stated by Werner on the list as a direct answer to my direct question :-) Feb 20 22:39:10 Elrond: Not complete sure. But I think it is included. Feb 20 22:39:23 rwhitby gave that answer 8 minutes ago Feb 20 22:39:24 hi vmaster Feb 20 22:39:28 hey stefan_schmidt Feb 20 22:39:28 ah Feb 20 22:39:41 So it should be in Feb 20 22:39:50 Will see in ~a week Feb 20 22:40:00 counter Feb 20 22:40:00 P0: a week, a day 12:46:08 (2.532 - 8.532 days); P1: 24.532 - 39.532; P2: 192.532 - 222.532 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (374) Feb 20 22:40:04 vmaster: Promoting OpenOCD or just hanging around? Feb 20 22:40:14 lets hope the hardware is ready in days =) Feb 20 22:40:16 a week + shipping + fun at customs. ;) Feb 20 22:40:52 stefan_schmidt: waiting for someone to mention the list of known bugs that's on the wiki - I believe I fixed the libftdi initialization bug, and I've never heard about the CP15 problem mentioned Feb 20 22:40:53 * LuitvD hopes the P1 will be there in a month or less... Feb 20 22:41:54 stefan_schmidt: well, and a bit of hanging around, as openmoko seems to be /really/ interesting Feb 20 22:42:41 vmaster: hmm, LaF0rge and werner doing most of the system level stuff. Would be best to ask what the bugs refer to. Feb 20 22:42:41 LuitvD - I guess for the full 40 days... they will only ship, when the base software on the phone is stable enough for the average hacker. Feb 20 22:43:08 Elrond: well... what makes you think the P0 isn't 'stable' ? Feb 20 22:43:45 LuitvD: I'm not even sure if I need to flash the first image myself. :) Feb 20 22:43:57 :P Feb 20 22:44:04 * stefan_schmidt hopes at least the bootloader is preloaded. :) Feb 20 22:44:18 stefan_schmidt: you mean flash through the development-board? Feb 20 22:44:59 openmoko: 03werner * r1062 10/developers/werner/notes/ (. openocd): My OpenOCD setup and usage notes. Feb 20 22:45:02 LuitvD: Perhaps. I will see when the box arrives Feb 20 22:45:29 vmaster: heh, werner reads our minds... Feb 20 22:45:52 stefan_schmidt: heh, do you happen to know where /developers/werner/notes/ is? Feb 20 22:46:07 https://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/notes/openocd Feb 20 22:46:07 please do take many pictures :) Feb 20 22:46:22 thanks Feb 20 22:46:36 LuitvD: http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/ is not enough? Feb 20 22:47:01 btw, we not even know which color we'll get Feb 20 22:47:21 stefan_schmidt: last time I checked there were no images with both the lid on and the screen on ;P Feb 20 22:47:42 that's what I'm waiting for, a picture of the hardware and the software together Feb 20 22:47:48 puuulleeeeezz not the orange thingy Feb 20 22:47:52 LuitvD: I'm pretty sure the will be *many* images once the first boxes arrives. Feb 20 22:47:54 ;) Feb 20 22:48:07 * SpeedEvil passes LuitvD a can of black paint. Feb 20 22:48:22 SpeedEvil: already have good black paint... Feb 20 22:48:23 the black one looks sexy Feb 20 22:48:27 yeah... Feb 20 22:48:34 it looks awesome Feb 20 22:48:40 LuitvD - Well: The average hacker probably will not have the devel-board. Take this into account. Feb 20 22:48:42 though the white-orange is nice too... Feb 20 22:48:51 right Feb 20 22:49:00 and the hardware is the same... Feb 20 22:49:06 it's the inside that counts :) Feb 20 22:49:19 yeah. Feb 20 22:49:28 shiny new hardware =D Feb 20 22:49:34 (just like my desktop computer... it's ugly as hell, and I'm very happy with what it does :) Feb 20 22:50:15 My desktop is currently in an advanced composite ceramic case. Feb 20 22:50:29 (AKA on top of a floor tile, on some bits of wood) Feb 20 22:50:38 hehe Feb 20 22:50:39 if there'll be no black devices before P2 I guess I'll still buy a P1 device, and paint it myself :) Feb 20 22:50:50 SpeedEvil: lol Feb 20 22:50:50 hihi Feb 20 22:50:52 Paint sucks though. Feb 20 22:50:59 stefan_schmidt: heh, that's a serious case of mind reading - he ain't in this channel Feb 20 22:51:00 Leather might work. Feb 20 22:51:01 SpeedEvil: not if you buy the right paint Feb 20 22:51:13 SpeedEvil: or suede :D Feb 20 22:51:20 LuitvD - I guess, they will offer both for P1. If you pay bugs, they can really offer some color. Feb 20 22:51:36 Elrond: yeah, guess so... but what if ;) Feb 20 22:51:43 Through coloured is always better. Feb 20 22:51:45 IMO. Feb 20 22:51:51 Even though you don't get metallic. Feb 20 22:51:59 Well - unless it's stainless. Feb 20 22:52:02 vmaster: heh Feb 20 22:53:04 Are there more pics on the wiki? ;) Feb 20 22:53:16 hmm, it could be cool to have uncoloured plastic fronts... Feb 20 22:53:25 Uncoloured has issues. Feb 20 22:53:37 The colourant tends to mask 'functional' additives. Feb 20 22:53:37 why? Feb 20 22:53:53 That add strength to the plastic, impact resistance and stuff. Feb 20 22:54:03 Ahh. Feb 20 22:54:04 That's why you tend to get translucent at best. Feb 20 22:54:14 i mean blank, not transparent... Feb 20 22:54:19 Or really scratchy - polycarbonate. Feb 20 22:54:23 blank? Feb 20 22:54:30 just plain white, or some other easily dyable color Feb 20 22:54:33 Oh. Feb 20 22:54:39 yeah, blank, no added pigments Feb 20 22:54:45 Plastic doesn't really dye. Feb 20 22:54:48 so you can dye it yourself.. Feb 20 22:55:02 SpeedEvil: candypaint works good enaugh for me :) Feb 20 22:55:03 It doesn't have pores for the dye to sink into generally. Feb 20 22:55:47 SpeedEvil: if you heat up the plastic a little, it'll become soft Feb 20 22:56:10 (not all plastics, only some) Feb 20 22:56:33 Yes, there are ways to paint plastics. My problem is that it always wears off, then looks horrible. Feb 20 22:56:41 Maybe I just abuse stuff too much. Feb 20 22:57:23 lol Feb 20 22:57:33 hehe you guys should see my poor Collie Zaurus Feb 20 22:57:36 anyways, everybody likes the black+silver version Feb 20 22:57:37 :P Feb 20 22:57:44 There basically no color left =) Feb 20 22:57:50 CoreDump|home: show us :) Feb 20 22:57:57 no cam Feb 20 22:58:01 hmm Feb 20 22:58:18 maybe tomorrow I'll make a picture Feb 20 22:58:24 my Palm T|E2 has a kind of bare patch on the back :P Feb 20 22:58:42 I had bad experiences painting a 486/75 laptop. The oven I put it in to dry the paint malfunctioned, and melted most of the case. Feb 20 22:58:42 the paint ruffend up, and finally chipped off Feb 20 22:58:56 SpeedEvil: lol, too hot Feb 20 22:59:13 * SpeedEvil goes back to reading the wiki. Feb 20 22:59:27 * CoreDump|home goes back to hack his slug Feb 20 22:59:36 * LuitvD goes back to sleep Feb 20 22:59:44 bye :) Feb 20 22:59:53 n8 LuitvD Feb 20 23:00:04 WAve. Feb 20 23:01:03 i read about the flash partitioning and the BBT (bad block table) in the wiki. why is it desirable to distinguish between factory-bad flash blocks and worn-out flash blocks? Feb 20 23:02:17 aevin - I wondered that too. Have no answer. Feb 20 23:03:46 i guess there is a reason since the partitioning uses the last working blocks for BBT rather than storing the non-working blocks in the OOB. Feb 20 23:04:08 Weee... I didn't know, there is a standard for firmware update in usb devices... Cool! Feb 20 23:04:54 you mean on all usb devices? do you think most devices implements it? Feb 20 23:05:03 I'll have fun and kick some stupid vendors at it and ask them, why they don't support a standard. ;) Feb 20 23:05:16 aevin - Not many implement it. sadly. Feb 20 23:05:20 IIRC the factory bad bad blocks are marked specially at the factory - the whole block is locked off. Feb 20 23:06:43 aevin - See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_DFU Feb 20 23:27:48 ~change 60 usd to eur Feb 20 23:27:54 60.00 United States Dollar (USD) makes 45.6498 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Feb 20 23:28:00 openmoko: 03werner * r1063 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (7 files): Feb 20 23:28:00 openmoko: split uboot-s3c2410-splash.patch into its components: raise-limits.patch, Feb 20 23:28:00 openmoko: set-hwswp.patch, enable-splash-bmp.patch, splashimage-command.patch, and Feb 20 23:28:00 openmoko: cmd-unzip.patch Feb 20 23:32:49 stupid question, why not power the usb port? Feb 20 23:43:22 pirulo - Because that would need 5V and 100mA. The battery has only 3.7V. Feb 20 23:44:26 Anyway. Good night people. Feb 20 23:46:32 Elrond - thanks, I'll just carry a battery around, Feb 20 23:51:24 openmoko: 03werner * r1064 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series splashimage-command.patch): Feb 20 23:51:24 openmoko: Changed order of patches: enable CONFIG_UNZIP only after it's actually Feb 20 23:51:24 openmoko: supported. Feb 20 23:56:19 ohh ciabot here too. cool :) Feb 21 00:01:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC :: Compiling sample apps -- there isn't an autogen.sh in OM-2007/examples . there isn't even a configure.ac/configure.in for autoreconf to use Feb 21 00:01:46 how can i build the example applications? Feb 21 00:17:48 CoreDump|home http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader - serial questions anwsert Feb 21 00:19:59 In other words: the debug board provides a true serial port Feb 21 00:21:25 * CoreDump|home is off to bed, n8! Feb 21 00:24:19 Just got the March issue of Linux Magazine...there is an article about Motorola and their Linux phones. Feb 21 00:24:25 openmoko: 03werner * r1065 10/trunk/src/host/splash/ (. README splashimg.pl): Splash screen image converter with usage and install instructions. Feb 21 00:25:10 I cannot believe the gushing that was in there. No mention of other truly open efforts like OpenMoko Feb 21 00:25:28 jaebird_: Who is the author? Feb 21 00:25:47 Elizabeth Millard freelance tech writer Feb 21 00:26:08 * stefan_schmidt wrote two article for the german linux magazine last year about it Feb 21 00:26:13 jaebird_: I have an openmoko here and a bunch of people have no idea what it is. The publicity hasn't been *that* good. Feb 21 00:26:36 jaebird_: hmm, never heard. Is the article available online? Feb 21 00:26:43 She talks a bit about motodev initiative...but moto does NOT want people coding on their phones...must use Java :( Feb 21 00:27:17 cjb: It's still a pre developer device. I hope for better marketing in September Feb 21 00:27:18 jaebird_, write in Feb 21 00:27:45 Here is a quote... "In addition to being the open source phone king of the hill, Motorola also wants to be a major part of driving Linux adoption and development within the industry" Feb 21 00:27:58 :) Feb 21 00:28:03 aargh Feb 21 00:28:10 bullshit detector Feb 21 00:28:18 Isn't it Montavista...not motorola Feb 21 00:28:28 Both bullshit Feb 21 00:28:32 heh Feb 21 00:28:35 motorola doesn't do kernel development, unless it is ther power mgmt hack Feb 21 00:29:15 i mean that motorola didn't start anything...they got an old kernel from montavista and proceeded to poop on it some more. Feb 21 00:29:21 jaebird_: They have done kernel dev. They changes the mad to the *2.4.20* kernel have moto copyright and moto email addresses Feb 21 00:29:37 :) Feb 21 00:30:17 if seen some of the threads at motodev begging motorola to release an sdk so people can actually do stuff (full disclosure... I have an E2) Feb 21 00:30:25 s/if/I've/ Feb 21 00:30:25 jaebird_ meant: I've seen some of the threads at motodev begging motorola to release an sdk so people can actually do stuff (full disclosure... I have an E2) Feb 21 00:31:06 Indeed they have a native linux SDK, but only for cooperate partners... Feb 21 00:31:29 it just burns me up...and I WILL write in. There are several telecom articles in this issue...I have not seen any OpenMoko reference yet. Feb 21 00:31:54 stefan_schmidt: yes ofcourse...we take visa or mastercard! Feb 21 00:32:01 * stefan_schmidt offered an artcile to german linux magazine a month ago. No feedback. Feb 21 00:32:02 augghh Feb 21 00:33:04 I should write an alternate view article highlighting OpenMoko as the "King" of Mobile...yadayada Feb 21 00:33:30 heh Feb 21 00:34:30 one more quote and I'll stop..."Some hurdles that will likely have to be jumped include policies on how security is implemented. Making the phones absolutely rock solid and unable to be cracked is a possibility, but not yet a reality." Feb 21 00:35:16 At least not if they have a root shell without password open. Feb 21 00:35:41 This is quoting Mark VandenBrink, Senior Director and Chief Platform Architect of Motorola Mobile Devices Feb 21 00:35:54 man that is a long title! Feb 21 00:36:12 Why should a author write something about locked down phones in a linux magazine. It's all about freedom. sigh Feb 21 00:36:23 people do NOT get it. Feb 21 00:36:47 I don't know how many times I try to get it across it is like talking to a "deer in the headlights" Feb 21 00:37:02 Ah, and I'm Lead architect system level of OpenEZX Feb 21 00:37:03 openmoko: 03werner * r1066 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-neo1973-resume.patch: http://www.fluff.org/ben/openmoko/uboot-neo1973-resume5.patch Feb 21 00:37:33 Kinda like Steve Balmer blaiming pirates in China and Russia for Vista's slow sales...what about the 2 gig of ram and 256mb video card requirements? Feb 21 00:37:58 He said they will have to increase WGA lock downs Feb 21 00:38:43 the debian repos on http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro won't work with apt-get :-\ Feb 21 00:39:06 I want to see FIC make a billion dollars on their Neo hardware platform to prove to the world that this is not a joke Feb 21 00:41:15 I doubt that. But we can help by spreading the word. Ask people what they hate about their mobiles, etc... Feb 21 00:42:05 Not if they stick with it long enough. If FIC is committed to this market that should be doable in some years Feb 21 00:42:43 MacNorth: deb http://www.openembedded.org/dl/ packages/ works fine here Feb 21 00:43:17 238 yrs if they sell 1000 per month :) Feb 21 00:43:26 heh Feb 21 00:44:47 Err http://sicherheitsschwankung.de unstable/main Packages is 404 for me Feb 21 00:46:32 http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/~jluebbe/debian/unstable/ Feb 21 00:47:26 nope: E: Malformed line 19 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (dist) Feb 21 00:47:38 it wants main|contrib|non-free Feb 21 00:48:59 MacNorth: moment let me test. Feb 21 00:49:00 stefan_schmidt: can you point me to the gpl violation issue that motorola had/has? Feb 21 00:49:22 deb http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/~jluebbe/debian/ unstable/ should work just fine Feb 21 00:49:36 /should// is the operative word, apparently :) Feb 21 00:50:48 deb http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/~jluebbe/debian/ unstable/ Feb 21 00:50:56 works for me, just tested on SID Feb 21 00:50:58 MacNorth: It works. Just verified. I use this repo for a long time now. Feb 21 00:51:22 note the [space] before unstable Feb 21 00:51:26 jaebird: It's a bit complicated Feb 21 00:51:55 space noted and used, trailing unstable slash noted and used, no dice in etch app Feb 21 00:52:17 jaebird: They don't sell the A780 in germany anymore. Means Harald is not able to make pressure on them. Feb 21 00:52:49 nice... Feb 21 00:53:02 jaebird: The code shoudl be mostly there, but normally they need to release the code for every firmware version. And it should build. Feb 21 00:53:33 agreed...and the spirit of the law would say there should be someway to get that onto the phone! Feb 21 00:53:37 jaebird: ATM you still need fixes for the released code. Feb 21 00:53:49 jaebird: right Feb 21 00:53:57 MacNorth: http://rafb.net/p/lPSsLN23.html <- my working sources.list Feb 21 00:53:59 thx Feb 21 00:54:34 jaebird: Thy getting better with opensource.motorola.com, release for every firmware, directly when phones came out... Feb 21 00:55:01 i have lines 3 & 5 verbatim. i dunno Feb 21 00:56:16 jaebird: If they came to us we could work it out. But I doubt they will ever. Feb 21 00:56:18 MacNorth: I'm out of ideas =) Feb 21 00:56:37 me too, i'll just wait a few days. weird flukes like this usually sort themselves out Feb 21 00:56:43 yeah...i'll mention openezx in my email too Feb 21 00:58:00 has anyone had any luck with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC ? Feb 21 00:58:21 Compiling sample apps -- there isn't an autogen.sh in OM-2007/examples . there isn't even a configure.ac/configure.in for autoreconf to use Feb 21 01:02:00 stefan_schmidt: I'll send you an email of my response...you can comment if you like and reply back. Feb 21 01:02:47 jaebird: ok, thanks. But first I go to bed now. It's already 2:30 am. cu Feb 21 01:02:50 night all Feb 21 01:02:56 <[g2]> stefan_schmidt night Feb 21 01:02:58 sure Feb 21 01:03:06 no hurry for me! Feb 21 02:18:39 openmoko: 03werner * r1067 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (dynenv-harden.patch series): Feb 21 02:18:39 openmoko: common/cmd_nand.c: globalized arg_off_size Feb 21 02:18:39 openmoko: include/util.h: new header to convenience functions, such as arg_off_size Feb 21 02:18:39 openmoko: common/cmd_dynenv.c (do_dynenv): use arg_off_size to sanity-check offset and to Feb 21 02:18:39 openmoko: allow use of partition name Feb 21 02:18:40 openmoko: common/cmd_dynenv.c (do_dynenv): indicate in no uncertain terms when an update Feb 21 02:18:44 openmoko: would not work due to Flash bits already cleared Feb 21 02:26:02 Hello. Where's the source of libgsmd? Feb 21 02:26:38 openmoko: 03werner * r1068 10/developers/werner/TODO: Feb 20 updates Feb 21 02:51:09 claudio_: have you checked the tree in svn ? Feb 21 02:53:40 claudio_: it may of course be work-in-progress, i don't know. but here: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 21 02:59:57 2007