**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 22 02:59:58 2007 Feb 22 03:07:31 so offhand my guess is that it will do it, but slowly Feb 22 03:21:13 best page so far is http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/special-sd.html , found via wikipedia Feb 22 03:30:53 morning Feb 22 03:34:08 morning (goes looking for where P0 date delay is mentioned) Feb 22 03:36:42 aloril, you rule our fate. Make P1 soon :) Feb 22 03:37:09 hey rwhitby. I've been kicking svn makefile recently... generally fine :) Feb 22 03:37:36 jebba: feel free to add patches as required - do you know/use quilt? Feb 22 03:38:38 jebba: ah, there is no news yet? Feb 22 03:42:26 * aloril notices "This supports cards up to 2Gb. It does not support SDHC" in wiki, so this is hardware limitation? Feb 22 03:44:32 rwhitby, i have definitely quilted, but not with software. I can probably figure it out, but I must defy the inertia of laziness to write a patch. Perhaps /msg will do./ Feb 22 03:45:21 jebba: here's what I do: Feb 22 03:45:28 1) determine which file needs to be changed Feb 22 03:45:31 2) cd openmoko Feb 22 03:45:39 3) quilt new name-of-patch.patch Feb 22 03:45:53 4) quilt add path/to/file/that/needs.changing Feb 22 03:45:57 5) edit the file Feb 22 03:46:02 6) quilt refresh Feb 22 03:46:15 7) notice that quilt has added the patch, and updated the series file for you Feb 22 03:46:18 8) cd .. Feb 22 03:46:20 9) make setup Feb 22 03:46:25 10) make openmoko-devel-image Feb 22 03:46:45 aloril2: that was me - that may not be strictly accurate. Feb 22 03:46:49 and if you want to change/update an existing patch: Feb 22 03:46:52 1) cd openmoko Feb 22 03:47:06 2) quilt pop name-of-patch-you-want-to-change.patch Feb 22 03:47:07 It sounds like it probably will support some 4G cards. Feb 22 03:47:10 3) edit the file Feb 22 03:47:37 (do a quilt add first if you need to edit a file that is not already touched by the existing patch) Feb 22 03:47:41 4) quilt refresh Feb 22 03:47:42 or quilt edit Feb 22 03:47:51 SpeedEvil: yeah, I thought you had heard something, well some 4GB micro SD announcement by industry said that it would be just firmware update in most mobiles, so I'm still hopeful then Feb 22 03:48:02 jebba: and that's about all you need to know to operate quilt. Feb 22 03:48:07 Clint: nod Feb 22 03:48:52 jebba: OK, so no news and no need to yet update P0 counter, it could still be right (probably not for lower limit, but upper limit might be (counter doesn't include shipping)) Feb 22 03:51:30 4G - maybe. Feb 22 03:51:34 8G - no. Feb 22 03:51:52 4G - there is the option of using standard cards with larger blocksizes Feb 22 03:52:09 Though they can be SDHC too - which probably won't work. Feb 22 03:52:50 I'm unsure if it will in fact work in 'compatibility' mode - which is somewhere around 1.5 megabytes/sec. Feb 22 03:54:47 * SpeedEvil tweaks the language on that page. Feb 22 03:57:13 SpeedEvil: ah, so there are incompatible hardware wise, not just software? Feb 22 03:57:29 "Engineering samples are now available for evaluation, as mobile phone makers will need to upgrade the firmware in their handsets so that memory slots can support the new card." http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3711 Feb 22 04:00:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card seems to imply driver problem too: "... some device drivers do not handle the larger block size ... " Feb 22 04:02:44 (uups, it talks about SD, not SDHC in what I quoted) Feb 22 04:03:49 Seems so - yes. Feb 22 04:04:15 regular SD cards can - sort-of-incompatibly be 4G. Feb 22 04:05:32 * aloril guesses question is this: is this hardware or driver change?: "... sector addressing vs byte addressing ... " Feb 22 04:06:45 for closed devices this is same, but not for Neo1973 ;-) Feb 22 04:07:59 * aloril notices speculation references from wiki that N800 might support SDHC, just kernel driver change (which would raise hopes for Neo1973 too) Feb 22 04:09:08 I'm trying to see if I can find someone with the SDHC spec. Feb 22 04:17:30 rwhitby, thanks for quilt crashcourse :) /me looks manana.... Feb 22 04:24:00 * aloril notes that http://www.openmoko.com/pixels/main_menu_press.png has better resolution than http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/27/Neo1973-doll.pdf Feb 22 04:25:09 so if you base screen resolution feeling on print, then you might be pleasantly surprised with actual Neo1973 ;-) Feb 22 04:37:04 SpeedEvil: so what I read seems to say that looking at the CSD (Card Specific Data) will get you the block size you're supposed to use, as well as (for SDHC) the cluster size, and if that's so, then it just requires a driver smart enough to handle those kinds of settings Feb 22 04:40:17 I'm unsure, I'm trying to get more info. Feb 22 04:40:33 And what sort of crack-monkey introduces a new standard limited to 32GB. Feb 22 04:52:50 I think that's due to trying to be FAT32 compat Feb 22 04:53:00 but I still agree with the sentiment =) Feb 22 04:59:49 hmm.. according to wiki its "format" command limitation, not actual limitation, though bigger problem might be 4GiB file size limit Feb 22 05:00:35 * aloril wonders what will be used as standard for 64 G(i)B flash memory cards Feb 22 05:52:29 aloril: People are going to backlash against this 'must be smaller' thing, and go with CardBus. Feb 22 05:56:02 nah, compactflash Feb 22 05:56:10 being ide it's good for at least 138gb Feb 22 05:56:11 ;) Feb 22 06:06:24 average (lowest) prices for 2GB using http://www.mbnet.fi/hintaseuranta/tuote.aspx/26304 : Feb 22 06:06:30 CF: 55 EUR (22 EUR), Memory Stick (cheapest type): 59 EUR (40 EUR), xD: 68 EUR (44 EUR) Feb 22 06:06:35 MicroSD: 66 EUR (31 EUR), Mini SD: 35 EUR (16 EUR), MMC: 53 EUR (51 EUR), SD: 38 EUR (14 EUR) Feb 22 06:08:35 4GB: CF: 104 EUR (45 EUR), SD: 66 EUR (32 EUR) Feb 22 06:10:05 Annoyingly. I had a nice script to pull all of http://www.ebuyer.com/ and graph price versus media type. Feb 22 06:10:38 Unfortunately, it broke, and I realised that I have no idea what each bit does. Feb 22 06:10:51 it looks like SD is now cheaper than CF (while in past it was other way around) Feb 22 06:10:58 yep. Feb 22 06:13:21 what would it take to buy 256 4GB SD cards and combine them to 1TB flash memory? (other than costing probably more than 10000 EUR ;-) Feb 22 06:13:48 or maybe more realistically 32x4GB for 128GB about 2000 EUR Feb 22 06:14:44 Wouldn't it be cheaper using 2GB? Feb 22 06:15:25 yes, but 2x bigger Feb 22 06:15:55 umm.. actually for average price 4GB is cheaper Feb 22 06:15:57 True Feb 22 06:16:06 for cheapest price difference is small Feb 22 06:16:43 A while back, I did sums. Feb 22 06:17:02 The volume/capacity is about the same for top-end 3.5,2.5, flash Feb 22 06:17:52 Hm, the neo1973-UI looks sleek Feb 22 06:18:43 I meke it a couple of hundred CC for a terabyte of microSD. Feb 22 06:20:39 external mobile harddrive 160GB: 1MB/1mm^3 http://www.lacie.com/fi/products/product.htm?pid=10868 Feb 22 06:22:41 2.5MB/1mm^3 for 4GB SD, 12MB/1mm^3 for 2GB microSD Feb 22 06:23:22 however if you took just SD as such then you need extra space of course, if you create from raw, then ... dunno what is possible Feb 22 06:26:13 external USB harddisk seems to be about 0.7MB/1mm^3 (500 GB model) (not including power source ;-) Feb 22 06:27:51 I think when I did the numbers, microsd wasn't around. Feb 22 06:28:15 MicroSD + near field would be iteresting. Feb 22 06:28:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Field_Communication Feb 22 06:28:35 Nobodies made one yet though. Feb 22 06:30:08 anyway, considering these: http://most-expensive.net/cell-phone-mobile http://www.geckoandfly.com/2006/09/09/vertu-diamond-cellphone-world-most-expensive-phone/ Feb 22 06:30:19 WinCE .... ;-) Feb 22 06:30:28 on million dollar phone Feb 22 06:31:15 I mean if you are going to pay million bucks, wouldn't want to get in features also more than just standard phone? Feb 22 06:31:46 No. Feb 22 06:31:47 if you had million bucks, what kind of phone you would make? Feb 22 06:32:00 I want a pretty phone, and I want a flunky to make calls for me. Feb 22 06:32:31 hehe Feb 22 06:32:49 I dunno. There are hard tech limitations. Feb 22 06:33:11 You can't push much beyond the state of the art, without spending _huge_ sums. Feb 22 06:33:18 yes, developing new tech is *very* expensive Feb 22 06:33:20 And a million bucks really isn't a lot. Feb 22 06:33:40 So you're pretty much limited to really fancy cases, and maybe new software. Feb 22 06:33:59 so yeah, you can't get much more than what is offered in standard top of line phone anyway.. Feb 22 06:34:37 well I think memory might be a bit exception: bluetooth (or wifi..) + big flash memory could be both expensive and make difference Feb 22 06:34:40 I think to - say - halve the volume of a small phone and keep all the features you'd be looking at hundreds of millions. Feb 22 06:34:57 Well - maybe half might just about be doable. Feb 22 06:35:02 Much more not. Feb 22 06:35:24 lets assume current size and that you don't need to have all inside case because of wireless Feb 22 06:35:29 well - ten prolly. Feb 22 06:35:56 Pretty much problematic. Feb 22 06:36:02 Large screen or buttons Feb 22 06:36:10 actually, phone itself can be small if you use belt to house actual stuff Feb 22 06:36:12 there are all the usual compromises. Feb 22 06:36:33 hmm.. well.. still limited Feb 22 06:37:06 A phone with 'smart' fascias might be interesting. Feb 22 06:37:21 Where the pop-off bits contain various sized LCDs Feb 22 06:37:34 and different button arrangements. Feb 22 06:37:52 So you could pick between hardware qwerty and large screen Feb 22 06:37:57 what kind of bandwidth you need between SoC and LCD on cell phone? (too much for wireless?) Feb 22 06:38:06 Pretty much. Feb 22 06:38:17 Wireless raises the other horrible issue - power. Feb 22 06:38:35 You can't have power over wireless, and you need power hungry devices at either end. Feb 22 06:38:40 and HMD displays are too immature Feb 22 06:40:07 It's more the mounting that's the problem. Feb 22 06:41:05 Magnets that worked on bone or flesh would solve so many issues. Feb 22 06:45:03 hmmm.. lets assume traditional display for now with touch screen: Feb 22 06:45:21 and 2 unit design (belt + hand) Feb 22 06:45:36 when you put phone away in belt, it would automatically charge Feb 22 06:46:13 hand unit: display, CPU, wireless, at least some local memory (RAM + flash), battery Feb 22 06:48:11 belt: more flash (up to 100 GB at least, maybe 1TB?), much bigger battery (like 10Ah LiPo?) Feb 22 06:48:22 sounds expensive, especially that flash part ;-) Feb 22 06:49:00 Hmm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_memory_cards starts at compactflash. Feb 22 06:49:06 It should really have PCMCIA Feb 22 06:51:55 And actually - punched cards wouldn't be inappropriate. Feb 22 06:51:57 SpeedEvil: IIRC, adapter CF<->PCMCIA is just mechanical Feb 22 06:52:02 Yes. Feb 22 06:52:18 SpeedEvil: punched cards? :) Feb 22 06:52:19 But PCMCIA cards were used as camera storage before CF arrived. Feb 22 06:52:47 yup Feb 22 06:52:58 well. they are also memory cards as well :))) Feb 22 06:53:06 there were some industrial pcmcia memory cards for a while Feb 22 06:53:10 *quite a while Feb 22 06:53:21 I can't think of an earlier read-write solid-state memory card. Feb 22 06:53:37 DEsigned for mass market use than PCMCIA Feb 22 06:53:42 yeah Feb 22 06:53:53 i think ibm even used pcmcia ram cards for a while! Feb 22 06:53:54 There were game cartridges. Feb 22 06:54:03 Those weren't PCMCIA Feb 22 06:54:07 But JEDEC Feb 22 06:54:18 Which had the pins in a zigzag, not two rows. Feb 22 06:54:19 IIRC Feb 22 06:54:30 I think most of custom job would be that huge flash memory, I wonder how much extra cabling, control logic, etc. you would need to create 128GB flash memory module using microSD cards Feb 22 06:55:01 I think it's reasonable that you could get double the volume. Feb 22 06:55:10 With optimised sockets. Feb 22 06:57:55 135*75*15mm^3 / (11*15*1mm^3 * 4) * 4GB -> almost 1TB in same size as mobile hard drive: http://www.lacie.com/fi/products/product.htm?pid=10868 Feb 22 06:58:15 or if double, then 2TB in same space Feb 22 06:59:37 of course for part of $million you would have freeNX connection to some reasonably powerful supercomputer too ;-) Feb 22 07:05:04 so.. I do see 'useful' use for lots of money even without using *huge* research budget Feb 22 07:05:29 like that has ever been an issue Feb 22 07:05:31 finding use for money Feb 22 07:09:17 buz: yes, I was just thinking more 'useful' usage of $million for mobile phone than diamonds + standard phone + WinCe ;-) Feb 22 07:09:30 ah yes Feb 22 07:09:38 i can see uses too ;-) Feb 22 07:10:05 hire some assistant to carry it for you Feb 22 07:11:05 as for 128gb flash, that should be more in the 4 digit range Feb 22 07:11:26 for the flash alone, obviously Feb 22 07:11:56 yes and for 1TB in 5 or 6 digits Feb 22 07:12:05 5 should be enough Feb 22 07:12:26 at <10usd per gb of flash Feb 22 07:13:10 might even just about get it in the last 4 digit region ;) Feb 22 07:13:10 yeah, but you need to assemble it into one module, wires, controllers, etc.., custom job might not be very cheap ;-) Feb 22 07:13:10 but do you want your data in yet another device? Feb 22 07:13:40 i rather take a fast always present net connection than lots of storage Feb 22 07:13:41 tigert: faster access than over wireless Feb 22 07:13:55 mhh wires and all? stick it on a pcb for chrissakes Feb 22 07:14:04 well, sure for movies maybe Feb 22 07:14:25 but with that screen, maybe not :) Feb 22 07:14:52 all these mobile devices rock with good connectivity Feb 22 07:15:32 Google Beta makes it mandatory Feb 22 07:15:38 its a whole new way of thinking it though - the internet is your storage. Feb 22 07:16:13 not even with 5mbit at home i like that idea Feb 22 07:16:29 and if google is involved it could as well be 1gbit and i still wouldnt use it Feb 22 07:16:47 it depends what you want to do Feb 22 07:17:24 i have been chatting with this N800 while my laptop fscks its disk Feb 22 07:17:43 its not like that needs any major amount of storage ;) Feb 22 07:17:46 i streamed podcasts on the commute drive over 3G Feb 22 07:18:02 but yea. some storage of course Feb 22 07:18:29 but the connection is what makes handhelds interesting for me Feb 22 07:19:06 an ipod is nice but thats pretty specific use case Feb 22 07:19:47 this connectivity + gps location is what is really interesting Feb 22 07:20:43 ooh. fsck is done :) Feb 22 07:39:25 openmoko: 03mickey * r1077 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-dialer_svn.bb: oe/openmoko-dialer: add missing eds-dbus dependency (from OE) Feb 22 07:48:05 iam getting this meaage suring "make openmoko-devel-image" http://pastebin.com/886417 . any idea whats worng Feb 22 07:48:59 iam getting this message suring "make openmoko-devel-image" http://pastebin.com/886417 . any idea whats wrong (with typo corrections) Feb 22 08:17:42 counter Feb 22 08:17:43 P0: a week 03:08:16 (1.131 - 7.131 days); P1: 23.131 - 38.131; P2: 191.131 - 221.131 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (382) Feb 22 08:38:17 hi Feb 22 08:43:46 tomorrow fosdem. I hope that there will be atleast one phone Feb 22 09:07:23 welcome, my friend Feb 22 09:07:57 hrw: You mean just a device, or a working device? Feb 22 09:08:12 working Feb 22 09:09:07 lol... the pictures I've seen were all with either a non-working device, or a working one without the case :P Feb 22 09:09:24 hrw: define working :-) Feb 22 09:10:29 hi there. Feb 22 09:10:48 XorA: ;;) Feb 22 09:11:03 XorA: something which is not a mockup ;) Feb 22 09:15:02 to me, working is when the device is fully assembled, and some software/firmware is doing something with the LCD... preferrably showing the openmoko desktop Feb 22 09:16:37 whoops Feb 22 09:17:02 hrw: I guess you have to ask mickeyl to play with his toys then Feb 22 09:18:25 XorA: time will show. mickeyl has more important thigns then openmoko today Feb 22 09:18:57 well receiving this error while making using mokomakefile http://pastebin.ca/367394 any hints ? Feb 22 09:20:02 don't use the svn bbcollection, it's broken Feb 22 09:26:11 does this phone have a camera? Feb 22 09:26:11 There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Feb 22 09:26:31 yay for aloril's scripts Feb 22 09:26:45 no camera? that sux Feb 22 09:27:00 a 21st century phone without a camera? Feb 22 09:27:29 it's not a 'phone' ... Feb 22 09:27:31 i can hardly believe it, and at that price....geez...they're not making supporting an open-source initiative easy then Feb 22 09:27:38 :P Feb 22 09:27:44 * XorA wonders if it is some strange compulsion people have to come to this channel, ask a question that they already know the answer to and then bitch about the answer Feb 22 09:27:52 some people have real cameras and don't need useless toys in their phone Feb 22 09:28:00 XorA, no, ididn' talready know Feb 22 09:28:13 koen, its not a useless toy Feb 22 09:28:36 it is for many people... Feb 22 09:28:37 a 1MP camera with no optics is a fairly useless toy Feb 22 09:28:40 now just coz this camera falls short on functionality no reason to rationalize Feb 22 09:28:54 empty_mind: see the patch sent to openmoko-devel recently. Feb 22 09:29:07 rwhitby, ok Feb 22 09:29:12 XorA, no because it fulfills the funtion to take pictures of a quality that is sufficient for certain things Feb 22 09:29:54 like on the street; accidents, in london with the bombings quick snaps from mobile phones was very useful in getting information out Feb 22 09:30:53 fact is every phone has a camera now, if openmoko are competing then they should also have a basic camera. It does serve a function, especially in emergency situations Feb 22 09:31:12 livingdaylight_: Not every phone has one Feb 22 09:31:37 livingdaylight_: And I's say 50% never use their phone, and 90% of the others barely use it Feb 22 09:31:50 lol, in the few days i've been idling this channel i've seen people complain about a lot things, but you're the first to complain about the missing camera Feb 22 09:31:58 *of Feb 22 09:31:58 livingdaylight_: there are companies which does not allow employers to use phones with camera etc Feb 22 09:32:05 * koen looks at his nokia 6021 Feb 22 09:32:07 no camera Feb 22 09:32:18 * LuitvD looks at his phone... Feb 22 09:32:26 I'm not allowed to have a camera here.. (Volvo Cars factory) Feb 22 09:32:27 0,3Mpixel... useless Feb 22 09:32:48 * XorA has two camera phones, neither takes a puicture worth looking at :-) Feb 22 09:32:55 CM: right, there are a lot of work sites where I'm not allowed to have a cameraphone either Feb 22 09:32:58 I have 3 phones at home. two with cameras (2.0Mpx in my se k750i, 1.3Mpx in Ania's se k510i) Feb 22 09:33:06 and the one on the HTC Wizard is fucking annoying Feb 22 09:34:27 koen: If I'd take a pic of the new XC70 or XC60 jeep or so I'd get a hefty fine, besides banned forever for doing any work here Feb 22 09:34:45 :) Feb 22 09:35:26 it's a good thing the Neo doesn't have a cam then isn't it? :P Feb 22 09:35:36 Definitely Feb 22 09:36:26 I even considered the SE M600 phone for a while. Feb 22 09:36:35 lol, the neo should be able to fit a SID chip :D Feb 22 09:36:36 No cam, nice screen.. Feb 22 09:36:43 Xora, well my phone takes picutres worth looking at that do the job Feb 22 09:37:08 hrw, is that to protect industrial secrets? are you talking of communist China? Feb 22 09:37:18 I hope there's some nice sid-files to be used as ringtone Feb 22 09:37:22 CM: if you really wanted to take pic, could they actually prevent/detect it? Feb 22 09:37:23 CM: wow, that's a really nicedevice Feb 22 09:37:31 koen, is that an old model? Feb 22 09:37:38 CM: why not create .sid files? Feb 22 09:37:47 aloril2: No, and security here sucks Feb 22 09:37:53 CM: mickey|defence was in "the scene" for making those sid files :) Feb 22 09:38:04 CM: years ago there even were sid composers... Feb 22 09:38:23 * koen should find his .mod files Feb 22 09:38:28 you could get a career in the game-audio business by then already Feb 22 09:38:28 koen: I noticed that in some of his old blog posts Feb 22 09:38:37 I suspect I need a floppy drive... Feb 22 09:38:44 doink doink doink doink weepoo weepoo weepoo weeepoo Feb 22 09:38:53 and repeat :-) Feb 22 09:39:03 well, this is their first project like this. In future they will surely have camera function on their phone like everyone else now too. I shall have to wait till then to support this open-source phone Feb 22 09:39:05 * CM is missing DaisyChain.mod and Aerodyn.mod... My old favourites Feb 22 09:39:39 http://bff.netswarm.net/mods/Muzak/ Feb 22 09:39:47 livingdaylight_: Wait a year for version 2 of the Neo :) Feb 22 09:39:50 CM: think daisychain is in that too Feb 22 09:39:55 :D Feb 22 09:40:19 daisychain and daisychain2 Feb 22 09:40:31 Sweet! Feb 22 09:40:36 koen: Mickeyl was amiga musician so protracker/med rather then sid Feb 22 09:40:46 CM, yes, thank you. The current model is not good enough for me, not at that price Feb 22 09:40:57 Don't expect to find Aerodyn though.. The full name is far from PC Feb 22 09:41:09 hrw: get soundtracker on your progear and get mickey|defence to do some live stuff at FOSDEM :-) Feb 22 09:41:09 And in swedish.. Feb 22 09:41:31 * koen remember screamtracker3 and visual player Feb 22 09:41:32 where does aerodyn come from? Feb 22 09:41:49 * LuitvD is now playing loads of .mod files Feb 22 09:41:57 keygenmusic :D Feb 22 09:42:15 * XorA remebers using Octamed and then typuing the same commands into FastTracker and making a mod with a bpm of 20000 instead of a nice arpegeo Feb 22 09:42:38 LuitvD: The full name was "Aerodynamisk Neger" wich is both strange and somewhat racist.. :/ Feb 22 09:42:46 :P Feb 22 09:44:58 XorA: first have to get x11 starting nice on it Feb 22 09:45:03 * LuitvD starts to down them all Feb 22 09:45:18 * aloril2 's Neo1973 will have nice camera, actually better than any other phone includes ;-) Feb 22 09:46:03 :) yeah Feb 22 09:46:47 nice to see the channel filled with demosoceners ;) Feb 22 09:47:44 Hi all, can anyone help me in building the library lips_im-0.1 Feb 22 09:48:40 Anyone there? Waiting for your responses............... Feb 22 09:49:05 * CM hides like all the others Feb 22 09:49:42 sureshkuma1: I think you need #gpe or #oe for that Feb 22 09:49:58 CM: lol, that site contained 300 .mod files :D Feb 22 09:50:09 koen: ok Feb 22 09:51:22 LuitvD: try scene.org Feb 22 09:51:45 LarstiQ: what's that? Feb 22 09:51:58 LuitvD: the demoscene archive Feb 22 09:53:49 stereoprimer is cool :) Feb 22 09:55:38 CM: so why didn't you buy that SE M600i ... it's quite a nice phone... Feb 22 09:56:00 LuitvD: I got a k750i for free.. ;) Feb 22 09:56:10 CM: :O nice Feb 22 09:56:42 And some crappy siemens I can use at work, but I just switched sim-cards and use the k750 here anyway ;) Feb 22 09:57:29 CM: that k750i is soo much cheaper :P Feb 22 09:57:41 the m600i is 370 euro's :P Feb 22 09:57:49 (including dutch taxes...) Feb 22 09:57:53 * rwhitby laments that so many people think openmoko is about the hardware, not the software ... Feb 22 09:58:37 rwhitby: Well, that screen sure is shiny.. ;) Feb 22 09:59:05 But I agree, the whole thing is that it's open and you're free to do what you want :) Feb 22 10:00:05 right - pick your favourite hardware with your specific set of must-have features, and port openmoko to it. Feb 22 10:00:34 rwhitby, this error comes after applying the patch http://pastebin.ca/367450 Feb 22 10:00:59 who cares if the first hardware target has this or that feature. openmoko is not about the first piece of hardware that it happens to run on. Feb 22 10:01:29 go to #neo1973 if you want to complain about the hardware. this channel is about openmoko. Feb 22 10:02:03 empty_mind: the solution to that has been posted to openmoko-devel a number of times. Feb 22 10:02:04 rwhitby: does that exist? :O Feb 22 10:02:36 * rwhitby hopes anonymous svn is fixed on projects.openmoko.org soon, so people can actually use all the patches that I've put there ... Feb 22 10:03:00 rwhitby, ok Feb 22 10:03:25 LuitvD: I guess not, but it will if you join it. Feb 22 10:03:41 Point is that OpenMoko != Neo 1973 Feb 22 10:03:47 CM: true... Feb 22 10:08:01 we all should resolve to just point anyone who starts complaining about the Neo1973 hardware to #neo1973 ... Feb 22 10:08:22 CM: http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi/A/AERODYN.MOD Feb 22 10:08:32 LuitvD: Cool! :) Feb 22 10:08:52 CM: http://www.modarchive.com/A/index6.shtml has so many more :D Feb 22 10:08:55 Thanks :-) Feb 22 10:16:10 bleh. as expected, everything I want to see at FOSDEM somehow clashes Feb 22 10:16:28 <__doc__> hm, the first openmoko capable phone will have only bluetooth right? Feb 22 10:16:33 <__doc__> no wlan Feb 22 10:18:13 wifi? Feb 22 10:18:14 When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Feb 22 10:18:17 <__doc__> ya Feb 22 10:18:46 __doc__: depends on how hard the htc-universal people write support for gsmd Feb 22 10:18:57 <__doc__> koen: huh? Feb 22 10:19:20 any phone that runs linux is openmoko-capable in principle Feb 22 10:19:36 <__doc__> hm Feb 22 10:20:10 <__doc__> it's kind of a bummer to buy a device for about $350 only to spend that money a year or two later to get one with wifi Feb 22 10:20:36 __doc__: then do not buy it Feb 22 10:20:39 __doc__: if you don't like it, then don't buy it... Feb 22 10:20:43 <__doc__> but I want it! :) Feb 22 10:20:43 damn, beaten :P Feb 22 10:20:56 <__doc__> but I don't want to buy it twice Feb 22 10:21:01 __doc__: then do not complain? Feb 22 10:21:12 <__doc__> huh Feb 22 10:21:14 hrw: damn, you're too fast for my typing :P Feb 22 10:21:28 <__doc__> what's that a philosphy? Feb 22 10:21:40 if you want it, then don't complain.. if you want to complain, then don't buy it :P Feb 22 10:21:46 <__doc__> hm Feb 22 10:22:03 <__doc__> wherever it's stated that you can't want something and desire something else too Feb 22 10:22:30 __doc__: I mean... to not be idiotic... Feb 22 10:22:57 * __doc__ .oO(and then you're idiotic, gets better by the minute) Feb 22 10:23:05 * LuitvD looks for the right proverb... Feb 22 10:23:24 <__doc__> stfu? Feb 22 10:23:58 <__doc__> (or at least that's what I have learned would be an appropriate degradation of conversionalist quality at such a point) Feb 22 10:24:20 <__doc__> (next up l33tspeek and aoltalk) Feb 22 10:24:37 * __doc__ fetches popcorn Feb 22 10:24:39 what I mean is... you can't have everything, and you'll have to be able to accept that Feb 22 10:24:40 ... Feb 22 10:25:05 * LuitvD takes back the "idiotic" part... Feb 22 10:25:24 <__doc__> LuitvD: not beeing able to have something and wanting it nevertheless are not the same things Feb 22 10:26:12 __doc__: not really... it's about having priorities... Feb 22 10:26:46 if you want something that has too much downsides to really do/get/fix it, then you don't really want it... Feb 22 10:27:11 __doc__: now you have two options: buy neo1973 (bt, nowifi) in 2007 or wait year more for next version Feb 22 10:27:37 <__doc__> but both options are crap :D Feb 22 10:27:49 meh :P Feb 22 10:28:06 <__doc__> one means I don't have it for too long. the other means I don't have wifi and possible buy it again next year. Feb 22 10:28:20 <__doc__> I want the 3rd option Feb 22 10:28:23 both options are not exactly as you'd like it to be... but that doesn't mean it's all crap... Feb 22 10:28:42 <__doc__> can I get an Y? Feb 22 10:28:58 <__doc__> orno wait, I take the joke phone Feb 22 10:29:04 <__doc__> joker Feb 22 10:29:11 3rd option: try to get an e2881 and hope someone will get openmoko working on that... Feb 22 10:29:30 <__doc__> lotsa potential downsides to that too :) Feb 22 10:29:35 <__doc__> like buying, hoping, not getting it to work Feb 22 10:29:53 the downsides to that device: it's not really as open as the Neo, and the screen has a quarter of the resolution of the neo Feb 22 10:30:01 <__doc__> hmmm Feb 22 10:30:03 __doc__: 3rd option: grab other phone which runs linux and run openmoko on it Feb 22 10:30:34 <__doc__> I don't actually need gprs, I could consider grabbing an e-ink display, a gumstix and a battery pack and gluing together the device I want :D Feb 22 10:30:36 hrw: my 3rd option is part of that :P Feb 22 10:30:48 __doc__: good luck... Feb 22 10:31:23 __doc__: I'd like to see you do that :P hell, I might even buy one device off you if you'd succeed... Feb 22 10:31:42 sound awfully like an iRex Illiad Feb 22 10:32:50 <__doc__> it's the 22nd century, devices are no longer produced, they're mashed up ;) Feb 22 10:33:50 lol Feb 22 10:34:03 LuitvD: did you email e28? Feb 22 10:34:33 buz: I'm first trying to contact a person who lives in hong-kong to let him check for the price Feb 22 10:34:43 buz: you're interested aren't you? :P Feb 22 10:34:44 oh i have friends in HK Feb 22 10:34:57 can get them to check Feb 22 10:35:15 currently noone i know is in shanghai Feb 22 10:35:18 I'm already having someone to check :P Feb 22 10:35:23 ok Feb 22 10:35:38 * __doc__ .oO(on a second thought, maybe I should save my money for the neuron fibre mesh interface to plug into my gumstix) Feb 22 10:35:42 might even be able to get someone to check in shanghai too :D Feb 22 10:35:55 i'd be more interested in seeing what kind of source they'd provide Feb 22 10:36:05 or if they flat out violate gpl, maybe Feb 22 10:36:11 :) Feb 22 10:36:19 i don't think they do... Feb 22 10:36:20 <__doc__> nobody violates the gpl Feb 22 10:36:22 would seem kinda stupid if you go on and on about it being linux based Feb 22 10:36:33 __doc__: oh you'll be surprised... Feb 22 10:36:35 __doc__: ask LaF0rge about that ;) Feb 22 10:36:41 <__doc__> no really Feb 22 10:36:59 <__doc__> nobody violates the gpl, it's just all a big missunderstanding, everybody interpretes it as they want to Feb 22 10:37:00 __doc__: what, do you think you can do anything you want with GPL'd code? Feb 22 10:37:17 <__doc__> no Feb 22 10:37:18 __doc__: you clearly never had a look at the GPL and LGPL Feb 22 10:37:22 <__doc__> I had Feb 22 10:37:24 <__doc__> :) Feb 22 10:37:36 the GPL is quite uniform... Feb 22 10:37:47 <__doc__> ever read RMS and rosenlaw? Feb 22 10:37:54 nope, sorry Feb 22 10:37:57 <__doc__> well Feb 22 10:38:22 <__doc__> both are opensource advocates, both have written about the gpl, both at the same time, both take diametrally different stances to it's application Feb 22 10:38:24 ever seen RMS eat soup? Feb 22 10:38:35 <__doc__> mercy? :D Feb 22 10:38:54 pray you never have to witness that Feb 22 10:39:00 XD Feb 22 10:39:23 <__doc__> so if two people from the same camp can't agree how the GPL is to be interpreted, what makes you think corporations, courts and the average joe will interprete it as? Feb 22 10:39:25 (and the fact that RMS lacks basic social skills and is anooying) Feb 22 10:39:50 <__doc__> he doesn't lack them Feb 22 10:39:55 <__doc__> he just optimized them away Feb 22 10:40:34 <__doc__> (somebody please disengage that RMS -o option again, please...) Feb 22 10:41:17 heuh... what happened... Feb 22 10:41:27 <__doc__> rofl Feb 22 10:42:17 thank you Fletch Feb 22 10:43:23 can anyone connect to openmoko.org? Feb 22 10:43:31 seems like hetzner is seriously f***** up Feb 22 10:44:34 buz: what do you mean? Feb 22 10:44:45 i cant even get a traceroute beyond my own net Feb 22 10:44:51 but other than those hosts there, my net works Feb 22 10:44:52 oh wait... I see... Feb 22 10:45:00 dns lookups work Feb 22 10:45:04 but other than that, nothing at all Feb 22 10:45:05 it's on it's nose here too Feb 22 10:45:12 very interesting traceroutes indeed Feb 22 10:45:15 lol Feb 22 10:45:20 * LuitvD tries that too Feb 22 10:45:21 just beyond my isp, theres a blackhole for that route Feb 22 10:45:36 <__doc__> about diametrally different views of the gpl. see http://www.rosenlaw.com/html/GPL.PDF Feb 22 10:45:53 and from another isp, i get 2 hops then nothing at all Feb 22 10:46:15 I get four hops Feb 22 10:46:28 and after that no reply anymore Feb 22 10:46:30 there is something seriously wrong Feb 22 10:46:39 from hongkong i get 5 hops (til the us) then nothing Feb 22 10:46:53 oh no til germany Feb 22 10:46:57 guys finally managed to compile opnemoko. How should i proceed ? i want to write apps for openmoko Feb 22 10:47:01 dtag is fucked Feb 22 10:47:35 mine 's going straight through nl.euro.net for about 4 hops, and then get's lost Feb 22 10:47:44 i think decix is fucked up Feb 22 10:47:59 i get through to 11 free.157.110.193.in-addr.arpa (193.110.157.154) 71.942 ms 75.351 ms 75.765 ms Feb 22 10:48:12 which is one of the ips wiki.openmoko.org resolves to Feb 22 10:48:19 but the site wont load Feb 22 10:52:10 weird thinsgs going on in german internet it seems Feb 22 10:52:56 buz: dutch internet too... Feb 22 10:53:13 switzerland seems to work Feb 22 10:53:18 vmaster: ofcourse it resolves... the DNS servers you connect to are caching ;) Feb 22 10:53:40 and strato still works Feb 22 10:53:45 (which is nothing short of a wonder) Feb 22 10:54:26 LuitvD: you should check chinese prices for the e28 if you can Feb 22 10:54:31 usually that stuff is much cheaper there Feb 22 10:54:41 buz: yeah... probably Feb 22 10:55:07 tracepath of openmoko.org is lost, tracepath of wiki.openmoko.org reaches destination... Feb 22 10:55:34 that's just the weirdest thing ever... Feb 22 10:57:35 hmm, wiki has the same IP adresses in DNS, though in a diffrent order then www Feb 22 10:58:13 no, wait, ignore that... dig replies in random order... Feb 22 10:58:22 :) Feb 22 10:58:30 LuitvD: not only could i resolve it, i could also trace it Feb 22 10:58:46 vmaster: trace what., the wiki? Feb 22 10:58:50 wiki, www Feb 22 10:58:56 both the same ips Feb 22 10:59:23 www doesn't reach, doesn't trace beyond nl.euro.net, wiki does reach, does trace Feb 22 11:00:12 guys, enter deutschland "space" into firefox google search thingy and wait for suggestions to turn up Feb 22 11:00:18 so THATs google's hidden intention Feb 22 11:15:27 hmm, so it was just a glitch? Feb 22 11:16:14 Aha, svn.openmoko.org is working now, wasn't a few minutes ago. Feb 22 11:17:09 Lazerdye: a few minutes ago nothing worked... from www to wiki, from svn to planet Feb 22 11:29:24 buz: do you think you can choose? between QVGA + more features or VGA + a bit less? Feb 22 11:30:05 it'd be really nice if the neo's screen would fit in the e2881... Feb 22 11:42:28 i'm leaning towards QVGA IF it can run openmoko Feb 22 11:42:50 you want to exchange screens? Feb 22 11:42:54 good lukc with that hehehe Feb 22 11:43:04 koen: building openmoko-image, fails in udev-092-r15 Feb 22 11:43:10 ERROR: QA issue: libvolume_id.pc failed sanity test (reference to /usr/include or workdir) Feb 22 11:43:41 buz: yeah :P Feb 22 11:43:51 robtaylor: I have a fix for that, bit I am waiting on feedback Feb 22 11:44:04 koen: i'll hapilly try it :) Feb 22 11:44:16 buz: it should be possible to build a QVGA front-end for openmoko Feb 22 11:44:24 robtaylor: you can get around it by removing "insane" from INHERITS in conf/distro/includes/angstrom.inc Feb 22 11:44:49 LuitvD: like http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=197 ? Feb 22 11:45:15 koen: i don't mind testing or finding a real solution Feb 22 11:45:37 koen: exactly... Feb 22 11:46:09 i'm more worried about actually getting openmoko stack on there Feb 22 11:46:12 robtaylor: I have a real solution: setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH in OE to lib/pkgconfig instead of share/pkgconfig, since Xorg doesn't honour it... Feb 22 11:46:28 that openmoko will be ported to QVGA i take as a given, considering that the OpenEZX devices all have qvga Feb 22 11:46:55 robtaylor: but it requires everyone to do 'mv /share/pkgconfig/* /lib/pkgconfig' Feb 22 11:47:09 koen: whu? xorg doesnt honour PKG_CONFIG_PATH? Feb 22 11:47:40 well, i can fix that, i'm sure, but why does that cause udev build to fail? Feb 22 11:47:48 robtaylor: it puts the .pc files in ${prefix}/lib/pkgconfig regardless of PKG_CONFIG_PATH Feb 22 11:48:26 robtaylor: it checks all pkgconfig files, not just the one from udev Feb 22 11:49:17 koen: well, standard thing is to use $(libdir)/pkgconfig Feb 22 11:50:39 koen: so yeah, share/pkgconfig seems very wrong to me Feb 22 11:51:31 well, it could be umbaumba/foo/bar/ for all that matters Feb 22 11:51:39 packages should obey PKG_CONFIG_PATH Feb 22 11:52:01 but since almost every package doesn't..... Feb 22 11:52:13 koen: no, PKG_CONFIG_PATH is just for configure-time Feb 22 11:52:19 koen: not for install time Feb 22 11:52:28 weird Feb 22 11:52:35 I'd expect it to be symmetrical Feb 22 11:52:52 koen: not really, its meant for if you've got sepearete prefix's you're using Feb 22 11:53:01 LuitvD: we need to figure out how linux support for omap 730 is Feb 22 11:53:31 koen: it'd be non-trivial to use it for install-time Feb 22 11:53:31 buz: linux.omap.com Feb 22 11:53:35 buz: i reckon it's just like for arm... Feb 22 11:53:39 buz: omap730 is supported Feb 22 11:53:45 oh thats good Feb 22 11:53:47 also in x? Feb 22 11:53:57 (says it has 2d accelerator) Feb 22 11:54:08 uhu Feb 22 11:54:18 buz: if machine has working framebuffer then it has working X too Feb 22 11:54:32 hrw: why use framebuffer if you can accelerated x... Feb 22 11:54:40 but ack, framebuffer would be enough for starters Feb 22 11:54:58 buz: the magic word 'if' Feb 22 11:55:23 koen: well, tbc, it'd require every project to do AC_SUBST(PKG_CONFIG_PATH) in configure.in and pkgconfigdir = $(PKG_CONFIG_PATH) in the makefile.am Feb 22 11:55:38 koen: butthat may well break existing build systems Feb 22 11:56:10 and of course require multi-lateral agreement ;) Feb 22 11:56:12 the gsm module in neo is from TI right? Feb 22 11:57:03 buz: yes, TI calypso Feb 22 11:57:06 yeah, docs on getting uboot running on a the omap1610 dev board Feb 22 11:57:37 OMAP v3 is nice... Feb 22 11:58:01 i mean... OMAP generation 3 Feb 22 11:58:24 koen: so is the problem that insanity is checking that the pkgconfig it being put in the right(wrong?) place? Feb 22 11:59:05 koen: oh, the other problem with obeying PKG_CONFIG_PATH, is that it'd override make install DISTDIR= Feb 22 11:59:11 koen: which would really suck Feb 22 11:59:11 mhh if pricing isnt too out of reach i just might buy a e2881 Feb 22 11:59:11 and see if it works Feb 22 11:59:44 if not, maybe the integrated firmware can be put to use Feb 22 12:00:03 and if that one sucks badly, its not the first useless gadget i bought ;) Feb 22 12:00:24 lol, same here Feb 22 12:00:59 tried to hack linux on my PDA, which worked a little... getting your own distro running on a linux phone should be easier... Feb 22 12:01:05 robtaylor: the problem is insanity checks all .pc files, which in the the sanitized ones in share/pkgconfig and the broken ones in lib/pkgconfig Feb 22 12:01:13 LuitvD: SHOULD Feb 22 12:01:19 should, yes :P Feb 22 12:01:26 i dont even care so much for actual the distro Feb 22 12:01:34 koen: well, have i convinced you that share/pkgconfig is just plain wrong? Feb 22 12:01:36 robtaylor: have a look at classes/pkgconfig.bbclass to see what OE does to unbreak pkgconfig files Feb 22 12:01:36 openmoko userland would be good for starters Feb 22 12:01:37 sure hope it is... coz' I used some nasty hacks to get linux running on my pda... Feb 22 12:01:43 robtaylor: yes Feb 22 12:01:47 koen: cool Feb 22 12:01:55 i just wonder what happens when you brick those Feb 22 12:02:14 buz: a Palm PDA? or that e2881's? :P Feb 22 12:02:22 both, really Feb 22 12:02:28 lol Feb 22 12:02:35 robtaylor: I'm testing a build with http://rafb.net/p/u3fpPS66.html to see how much breaks Feb 22 12:02:35 just my thoughts Feb 22 12:02:40 i think only more recent kernels can load another one on top of them right? Feb 22 12:02:49 koen: cool :) Feb 22 12:03:07 sort of like "chain booting" Feb 22 12:03:35 if you can get the phone to boot from sd card, perfect Feb 22 12:03:54 buz: for my PDA, it required nasty hacks :P Feb 22 12:04:00 to simply bood off SD Feb 22 12:04:06 s/bood/boot/ Feb 22 12:04:06 LuitvD meant: to simply boot off SD Feb 22 12:04:12 i know for winmob it needs haret thingy Feb 22 12:04:26 it's a palm pda Feb 22 12:04:27 :P Feb 22 12:05:01 it required garux, a specially partitioned SD card, and early swap allocation Feb 22 12:05:15 koen: i don't understand why you need get_pkgconfig_mangle, can you explain? Feb 22 12:05:20 is there like loadlin for linux? Feb 22 12:05:36 ... Feb 22 12:05:38 chroot? Feb 22 12:06:08 well can you replace the kernel in flight? Feb 22 12:06:20 dunno... Feb 22 12:06:24 buz: kexec syscall. dunno whether it works. Feb 22 12:06:27 think it'll panic if you try that... Feb 22 12:06:48 robtaylor: -I/usr/include -L/usr/lib is not something you want during crosscompiling Feb 22 12:07:17 kexec is 2.5.48 plus i think Feb 22 12:07:19 koen: usually its prefix=${pcfiledir}/../.. Feb 22 12:08:07 pcfiledir is the place the pkgconfig is picked up from Feb 22 12:08:46 LuitvD: some (old sites) say kexec is x86 only Feb 22 12:08:46 koen: so as long as the pkgconfig files are in {STAGING_LIBDIR}/pkgconfig, it should just work Feb 22 12:09:00 buz: kexec works on arm as well Feb 22 12:09:07 buz: it's in 2.6.21 Feb 22 12:09:27 yeah like we have 2.6.21 on an off the shelf phone ;) Feb 22 12:09:27 robtaylor: sadly it isn't that simple :( Feb 22 12:10:29 oh ? Feb 22 12:10:49 not with the old pkgconfig we use in OE Feb 22 12:11:00 and newer versions don't compile Feb 22 12:11:13 i'm sure i can come up with a patch ;) Feb 22 12:11:17 (who's idea was it to fork glib and put it in pkgconfig?) Feb 22 12:11:26 ?? Feb 22 12:11:41 you didn't know? Feb 22 12:11:48 glibc comes with its own private glib Feb 22 12:11:48 ehm Feb 22 12:11:55 s/glibc/pkgconfig/ Feb 22 12:12:17 interesting =) i guess that was due to KDE glib-hatred ;) Feb 22 12:12:53 course, everone has glib installed nowadays, so it could probably change Feb 22 12:12:59 * dottedmag don't understand why pkg-config can't be shell script after all. Feb 22 12:13:17 koen: but pkgconfig 0.15 should work like i just described Feb 22 12:14:39 Is 2.6.20 out yet? Feb 22 12:14:51 daxxar: yes Feb 22 12:14:57 i'm running it on my desktop ;) Feb 22 12:14:58 It has kvm, right? <3 Feb 22 12:15:03 should have Feb 22 12:15:25 buz: running your own kernel on that e2881 should be possible with some u-boot hacking... if that's possible on that device Feb 22 12:15:45 i guess the whole question is: can you get root Feb 22 12:16:07 koen: anyhow, i'll try addinf a pkgconfig_0.20.bb and make some patches. I know tollef pretty well, so i'm sure i can get him to apply them ;) Feb 22 12:16:21 LuitvD: unless you are reaaaaly adventurous and just reflash the damn thing ;) Feb 22 12:16:30 :) Feb 22 12:16:40 sweet, it's payday Feb 22 12:16:50 buz: and simply face the risk of bricking it? Feb 22 12:17:02 thats why you need to be adventurous Feb 22 12:18:52 :) Feb 22 12:18:59 it really comes down to what kind of sources you can get from e38 Feb 22 12:20:17 buz: are you going to ask them? or is it my turn? :P Feb 22 12:20:30 lets wait for a price ;) Feb 22 12:20:42 or maybe i can ask both Feb 22 12:20:48 whom shall i ask, hk, shanghai or us Feb 22 12:21:21 err... ask the e28 CEO :P Feb 22 12:22:11 buz: i guess contact@e28.com Feb 22 12:22:25 the HK email is really just about sales... Feb 22 12:25:54 buz: it'd be great if you had access to a JTAG port on that e2881 Feb 22 12:26:16 buz: are you mailing or am I? :P Feb 22 12:26:26 writing the mail right now Feb 22 12:26:29 :) Feb 22 12:36:09 what uC is in that e2881? Feb 22 12:36:18 counder Feb 22 12:36:28 s/nd/nt/ Feb 22 12:36:29 SpeedEvil meant: counter Feb 22 12:36:41 counter Feb 22 12:36:41 P0: 6 days 22:49:17 (0.951 - 6.951 days); P1: 22.951 - 37.951; P2: 190.951 - 220.951 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (383) Feb 22 12:36:58 vmaster: omap730 Feb 22 12:37:06 :) Feb 22 12:37:07 buz: thx Feb 22 12:37:10 which is ARM Feb 22 12:37:30 i interpret it to be single chip actually Feb 22 12:37:39 d'oh Feb 22 12:37:56 arm7 for the baseband, arm926 for applications Feb 22 12:45:11 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11979&contentId=4696 Feb 22 13:45:14 counter Feb 22 13:45:15 P0: 6 days 21:40:43 (0.903 - 6.903 days); P1: 22.903 - 37.903; P2: 190.903 - 220.903 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (384) Feb 22 14:00:58 koen|uni: ok, got pkg-config 0.21 building :) Feb 22 14:01:08 koen|uni: just failing QA now Feb 22 14:01:37 koen|uni: http://rafb.net/p/mrTtno94.html Feb 22 14:12:00 robtaylor: that's unrelated QA (fakeroot and stuff) Feb 22 14:27:34 does anyone know if the moko supports 2gb MicroSD cards? Feb 22 14:28:04 parag0n_: depends on hardware which runs it Feb 22 14:28:10 heh Feb 22 14:28:32 but yea, the neo1973 has been tested with at least one model of 2gb microsd Feb 22 14:28:37 wasit sandisk or something Feb 22 14:29:42 List of supported microSD cards: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards Feb 22 14:29:47 i'm assuming there'll be microSDHC cards soon, hope we get support for them :D Feb 22 14:31:29 hi Feb 22 14:31:49 Yah, there's been some indications that sdhc _might_ work with a driver upgrade. But I don't know for sure. Feb 22 14:32:15 I'll probably settle for the default 512M card for a while, see how much extra space I yearn Feb 22 15:07:10 the kingston 1gb is pretty cheap at newegg - like $13 w/shipping Feb 22 15:11:06 ok $15 Feb 22 15:30:36 ol Feb 22 15:34:14 how much ram is left once teh basic stack is loaded? Feb 22 15:36:26 and does openmoko run on 64MB's of ram... Feb 22 16:30:26 cbpage: is that SD - not microSD though. Feb 22 17:08:30 i emulating jabba's rootfs in qemu and when i kill x and want to start the x session by startx s won't run Feb 22 17:10:30 startx? Feb 22 17:10:32 what's that? Feb 22 17:10:56 http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1599/49593615jx2.png Feb 22 17:11:06 startx is a little oldsKool :) Feb 22 17:11:38 so how can i run x session? Feb 22 17:11:42 xinit is older Feb 22 17:11:49 except startx? Feb 22 17:12:51 univac: you might want to try adding "127.0.0.1 qmuearm" to /etc/hosts Feb 22 17:13:24 err, qemuarm even Feb 22 17:13:30 excuse my two left hands Feb 22 17:13:37 .. and 10 thumbs Feb 22 17:13:41 did you configure xorg ? Feb 22 17:13:45 xorg? Feb 22 17:13:51 what's that? Feb 22 17:13:58 * Stephmw pokes koen Feb 22 17:14:24 Stephmw: giving the answer people need is so boring ;) Feb 22 17:14:52 koen: typing on IRC never will be that exciting ;) Feb 22 17:16:20 lol @ koen Feb 22 17:17:24 oh, works by init.d/xser.. script Feb 22 17:35:00 tagchen Feb 22 18:10:29 ~botmail for xkr47: http://www.openembedded.org/viewmtn/diff.psp?id1=4b0e693188daff03f827e74d152209f6c65eed49&id2=de732b9edab14596e25612f268a89373d0b775ab Feb 22 18:22:07 hi all Feb 22 18:23:00 hello Feb 22 18:43:26 counter Feb 22 18:43:27 P0: 6 days 16:42:29 (0.696 - 6.696 days); P1: 22.696 - 37.696; P2: 190.696 - 220.696 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (385) Feb 22 19:29:14 ich brauche dringendst ein neues tel. ... beeilt euch mal ;) Feb 22 19:30:50 i agree Feb 22 19:32:17 oh no! Feb 22 19:32:23 the feared german cipher Feb 22 19:32:29 * koen attempts to decrypt Feb 22 19:32:43 means LoDown is a hott hott man Feb 22 19:32:46 ::grin:: Feb 22 19:32:56 koen? Feb 22 19:33:07 höö? Feb 22 19:33:51 try to decrypt cipher ;) Feb 22 19:34:06 for me it's easy Feb 22 19:34:28 * koen lives ~4 km from the german border Feb 22 19:34:45 ahh unsere nachbarn aus nl *fg* Feb 22 19:35:53 koen, u can send me some coffee-pads ;) Feb 22 19:36:15 my sanseo needs lots of them Feb 22 19:38:15 * LuitvD goes downstairs for some chocolate Feb 22 19:38:23 ^^ Feb 22 19:38:57 chocomel is echt lekker Feb 22 19:39:21 especially warm with some rum Feb 22 19:39:48 i could go for some rum Feb 22 19:49:10 lots of .nl in here Feb 22 20:59:00 openmoko: 03laforge * r1078 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/ (13 files in 2 dirs): initial (unfinished) version of new DFU utility (dfu-programmer just sucks as something generic, device independent) Feb 22 21:02:35 openmoko: 03laforge * r1079 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/ (configure.ac m4/): add missing configure.ac and 'm4' directory Feb 22 21:09:34 ~last QVGA Feb 22 21:09:37 ... Feb 22 21:10:14 stefan_schmidt: so, say i build openmoko-image for a780, what do you reckon the chances are it'll wrok in the slightest? ;) Feb 22 21:11:19 that motorola thing? Feb 22 21:11:23 Hi - I wanted to know what would be the best way to get support for OpenMoko in Ubuntu... I work at Canonical Support, saw the OpenMoko at the last Ubucon - tx. mako :) Feb 22 21:12:02 robtaylor: what's the resolution on that thing? Feb 22 21:12:11 MagicFab: what do you want to know? Feb 22 21:12:20 I mean what resources would OpenMoko need / make available. I'd like to volunteer to make any needed contacts within Canonical Feb 22 21:12:28 robtaylor: First of all you need the qvga theme from bug 197. If you have luck it will be useable as PDA. For phone functions you need to *flash* the kernel and port our mux_cli to the new TS07.10 infrstructure. Feb 22 21:12:46 magicfab? Feb 22 21:12:47 This is a personal initiative, BTW, although many people here are excited and follow OpenMoko Feb 22 21:13:00 fic sponsors openmoko Feb 22 21:13:15 maybee best is you write sean an email Feb 22 21:13:28 robtaylor: If you wait some weeks we will do all these for you. :) Feb 22 21:13:29 stefan_schmidt: cool, i'll have a try at the 1st bit then.maybe we can hack a bit on the last bit at fosdem ;) Feb 22 21:13:44 robtaylor: Would be cool Feb 22 21:13:55 damn, i want to go to fosdem... Feb 22 21:13:58 but I can't... Feb 22 21:13:59 robtaylor: koen already has build openmoko for a780 Feb 22 21:14:02 stefan_schmidt: are you staying in hotel astrid as well, ooi? Feb 22 21:14:16 robtaylor: Poor student. I'm in a youth hostel. Feb 22 21:14:41 robtaylor: http://www.linuxtogo.org/~koen/index.php?path=a780/ Feb 22 21:14:48 stefan_schmidt: damn, you'd think someone would have stumped up for a hotel for you ;) Feb 22 21:15:28 robtaylor: I stucked for me at the ts calibration. Somehow the ts had not worked. Feb 22 21:15:54 robtaylor: Nobody wrote me about that, so I took the youth hostel. :) Feb 22 21:16:21 woglinde, do you have an email for "sean" ? There's no contact info at http://openmoko.org/ Feb 22 21:16:21 stefan_schmidt: ah well, maybe next time :) Feb 22 21:16:32 Today I got a openmoko x86 build and forst xoo stuff working. Feb 22 21:16:42 cool :) Feb 22 21:16:44 robtaylor: Jep, perhaps. :) Feb 22 21:16:57 http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/tmp/OpenMoko-x86-xoo.png Feb 22 21:16:58 magicfab -> http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html Feb 22 21:17:21 i need to remeber to pick up a new transflash card on the way to bruge.. mine's died horribly Feb 22 21:17:54 ok, we have our Neo working here. but the image on it doesn't have X working. how can I log in/throw a new OE build on it? Feb 22 21:17:56 robtaylor: I plan some hacking for fosdem. Not sure if I can really do it. Chatting with people could be more interesting Feb 22 21:18:09 Maybe bluetooth networking or something? But I don't know if that comes up by default. Feb 22 21:18:17 stefan_schmidt: yeah, it is the real reason we go Feb 22 21:18:24 robtaylor: exactly Feb 22 21:18:27 MagicFab: hah :) Feb 22 21:18:45 stefan_schmidt: whenever i plan hacking, it never happens, even last guadec, when there was loads of spare time Feb 22 21:19:00 mako_: dude! Feb 22 21:19:07 sweet! Feb 22 21:19:18 cjb: ah.. did you get it to charge or are you just running it off 3.7v? Feb 22 21:19:28 robtaylor: hey there Feb 22 21:19:31 robtaylor: hmm, guadec. When was it again? Feb 22 21:19:54 cjb: can you get it to show up as a usb device properly? Feb 22 21:19:55 stefan_schmidt: last june Feb 22 21:19:59 mako_: We're just running it, but also looking at hooking the battery up to the power supply. Feb 22 21:20:11 cjb: it was giving me address assignment errors Feb 22 21:20:22 Clint: oh, that's no good. Feb 22 21:20:31 robtaylor: ah, and this time in july. I see. Feb 22 21:20:48 stefan_schmidt: yeah, you coming? Feb 22 21:20:51 cjb: you may be able to get the bootloader to pop up over usbtty.. i'd try that first if you can Feb 22 21:21:32 mako, :) I was asking about supporting the OpenMoko in Ubuntu - I am not really familiar with the project but it was suggested I contact Sean Mosko Feb 22 21:21:53 robtaylor: hmm, never thought about it until now. Feb 22 21:22:15 MagicFab: i think support in ubuntu will be pretty good.. i wouldn't worry about that until its working at all :) Feb 22 21:22:23 magicfab uh I thought you want to make contact with canonical Feb 22 21:22:24 MagicFab: Best would be to have it supported in all distros Feb 22 21:22:29 Clint: ok, do you know how? Feb 22 21:22:30 who wants to help me send a request to E28? Feb 22 21:22:30 magicfab now thats diffrent Feb 22 21:22:32 *sigh* Feb 22 21:23:09 LuitvD: For code? Feb 22 21:23:19 stefan_schmidt: for anything... Feb 22 21:23:25 cjb: no, i didn't get that far Feb 22 21:23:25 stefan_schmidt: for some info basically... Feb 22 21:23:36 woglinde, I *am* at Canonical :) Feb 22 21:23:41 stefan_schmidt: we can't just mail them about code at first contact... Feb 22 21:23:45 * stefan_schmidt would only be interested in how they handle the GPL code they use Feb 22 21:23:52 cjb: the other option was serial over the debug board. i'm not sure if it's an either/or setting Feb 22 21:24:20 stefan_schmidt, I know, but the one I can help is Ubuntu. Just preparing for future support calls asking about OpenMoko :) Feb 22 21:24:22 stefan_schmidt: that's one of my questions too... Feb 22 21:24:38 Clint: We still don't have a debug board. Feb 22 21:24:43 stefan_schmidt: but wouldn't you like to see an e2881 run moko? Feb 22 21:24:46 cjb: i figured Feb 22 21:24:55 cjb: yeah... working on that Feb 22 21:25:21 LuitvD: Get press address and ask about how to download the code. You can't find something on the www. Mention that not providing the code is illegal. Feb 22 21:25:42 mako, I imagine you're still involved with Ubuntu / not sure about that. In any case I offered contact info to Sean Mosko. I'd personally like to see it officially supported the day it comes out, seing the current state of painful setup/support for most phones. Feb 22 21:25:55 LuitvD: I like to see it running on every phone with enough power for it. :) Feb 22 21:26:12 tx. to all for the answers Feb 22 21:26:26 stefan_schmidt: I've set up a part of a draft... I don't intent on getting everything right away... maybe if we treat them nice, they'll help us... Feb 22 21:27:00 LuitvD: Perhaps, but I doubt that. Anyway you can try it. Feb 22 21:27:15 stefan_schmidt: we should get first contact anyways, and if that all goes well, we can always get the core team involved in possibly getting more info... Feb 22 21:27:17 robtaylor: Is guadec nice? Feb 22 21:28:24 LuitvD: Go ahead and keep me informed.:) Feb 22 21:28:53 stefan_schmidt: I mean... I know I want one of those devices, and I want it to run moko... so I could first find out more about the availability of the device for european countries... and try to get them to say I can reflash u-boot or something :P Feb 22 21:29:42 stefan_schmidt: for what I've seen so-far the newer e28 devices are awefully similar to the system the Neo uses... Feb 22 21:30:41 LuitvD: Ask them and hope. Feb 22 21:30:45 :) Feb 22 21:31:33 yeah... hope, pray, scream for mercy and go through any emotion I can find... Feb 22 21:31:42 anything for a device like that :) Feb 22 21:31:54 * stefan_schmidt has mostly bad experiences with 'linux' phones. Most of the time just marketing bullshit. And you have to do the work on your own. Feb 22 21:32:28 greenphone Feb 22 21:32:43 should I talk to them as an individual, or as a member of the openmoko community? (which I'm not really completely... actually...) Feb 22 21:33:27 (I mean... I'm here a lot the last week... but I haven't really done anything for openmoko yet... so far ...) Feb 22 21:33:41 (I'd do anything to get moko running on that thing though...) Feb 22 21:33:45 LuitvD: like probably most of people here Feb 22 21:34:01 yeah... Feb 22 21:34:01 counter Feb 22 21:34:01 P0: 6 days 13:51:54 (0.578 - 6.578 days); P1: 22.578 - 37.578; P2: 190.578 - 220.578 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (386) Feb 22 21:34:38 hrw: will I become a hero here if I can get E28 to collaborate with openmoko inc. ? Feb 22 21:35:07 (or just the openmoko community) Feb 22 21:37:07 guess it'll piss FIC of if E28 limited gets too involved at this stage... Feb 22 21:37:29 s/of/off/ Feb 22 21:37:30 LuitvD meant: guess it'll piss FIC off if E28 limited gets too involved at this stage... Feb 22 22:02:59 damn, it's as if the national railsagency in the netherlands never heard of redundancy... two hardwarefaillures in rotterdam and utrecht delayed trains for hours... Feb 22 22:03:08 :S Feb 22 22:04:48 at least it takes 2 failures Feb 22 22:05:57 cu Feb 22 22:06:09 nite hrw Feb 22 22:07:00 woglinde: cu @fosdem or not? Feb 22 22:08:03 hi Feb 22 22:11:20 hi coredump Feb 22 22:12:00 counter Feb 22 22:12:00 P0: 6 days 13:13:55 (0.551 - 6.551 days); P1: 22.551 - 37.551; P2: 190.551 - 220.551 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (387) Feb 22 22:12:10 days go by slow Feb 22 22:13:41 coredump *g* Feb 22 22:15:58 openmoko: 03werner * r1080 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): preliminary checkin of small start.S changes Feb 22 22:43:47 at least it takes 2 failures Feb 22 22:43:58 that was one faillure in rotterdam, causing delays Feb 22 22:44:04 and one in utrecht causing delays Feb 22 22:46:07 haha, crap Feb 22 22:52:33 re Feb 22 22:53:44 mxn: that's why I said... it's like they never heard of redundancy... coz' it's one computer (per location) that froze/broke Feb 22 23:52:50 * LuitvD starts a new draft mail for e28 Feb 22 23:53:50 Is Joe Friedrichsen here? Feb 22 23:56:36 who is Joe Friedrichsen? Feb 22 23:56:55 could I be Joe Friedrichsen? Feb 22 23:57:51 only if you let him be you Feb 22 23:59:54 where's the openmoko wiki Feb 23 00:00:32 LuitvD, *gg* Feb 23 00:01:43 :) Feb 23 00:02:04 MichaelKthx: your guess is as good as mine ;) Feb 23 00:03:45 * LuitvD is still working on his second draft e-mail for e28 Feb 23 00:04:03 I just want to do it right :) Feb 23 00:06:03 mailto e30-turbo ;) faster Feb 23 00:06:33 sixfeet: I don't think I understand you, and I think it's the same the other way around... Feb 23 00:06:42 e30-turbo? Feb 23 00:07:02 not only faster pc's *fg* Feb 23 00:07:10 bmw e30 Feb 23 00:08:05 booh... don't need that... Feb 23 00:08:43 I just found the wiki Feb 23 00:08:48 looks awesome Feb 23 00:09:24 try youtube some nice vids Feb 23 00:09:53 Since this is an open soruce phone, I'm guessing it will work fine with my ubuntu machine Feb 23 00:10:32 Which would be awesome Feb 23 00:10:53 as oposed to the iphone which is limited to "Mac and PC" Feb 23 00:10:53 is it gsmd >> daemon or deamon... Feb 23 00:11:30 d Feb 23 00:11:52 gsm +gps Feb 23 00:12:00 sixfeet: I've come that far myself, thanks :P Feb 23 00:12:08 gsm daemon or gsm deamon Feb 23 00:12:11 which of those... Feb 23 00:12:23 (the software controlling the GSM module) Feb 23 00:12:35 MichaelKthx: err. "would work fine with my ubuntu" is not nessessarily true... That's all up to you :) Feb 23 00:12:53 is there an option to gpsdrive ? Feb 23 00:13:01 MichaelKthx: but it's GNU/Linux, so it should be able to support many FOSS Feb 23 00:13:17 sixfeet: what do you mean? Feb 23 00:13:56 the gps modul of the FIC Feb 23 00:14:25 sirf3 ? i don't know the specs Feb 23 00:16:21 hammerhead Feb 23 00:20:21 Infineon PMB 2520 IIRC Feb 23 00:20:48 (hammerhead based indeed) Feb 23 00:20:56 or wait... Feb 23 00:21:35 it's simply called "Hammerhead" ... :| Feb 23 00:21:51 i have to google Feb 23 00:22:02 sixfeet: no, look at the wiki ;) Feb 23 00:22:09 ^^ Feb 23 00:22:15 sufficient amount of info there... Feb 23 00:22:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Agpsd Feb 23 00:22:30 that one... Feb 23 00:22:30 what a surprise LuitvD Feb 23 00:23:02 oh n1 thx Feb 23 00:23:05 and a lot of answers there: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS Feb 23 00:23:07 :) Feb 23 00:23:17 (that last one has many answers) Feb 23 00:24:20 lol, it's as if I'm writing an essay... Feb 23 00:24:30 got 350 words already... Feb 23 00:24:41 * LuitvD is still working on that draft for e28 Feb 23 00:25:04 now at exactly 2k characters Feb 23 00:26:21 hehehe, I love it when the spell checker wants to change my last name into van Drunken :D Feb 23 00:31:20 hehe Feb 23 00:34:06 that sure gives me a good excuse :) it's in the name Feb 23 00:35:33 woo, we have X up on our Neo Feb 23 00:35:43 is there a terminal app by default? Feb 23 00:36:14 ok, I have a terminal Feb 23 00:36:18 but I don't know how to type in it Feb 23 00:38:17 :) Feb 23 00:38:20 and, how do we talk to it via usb? Feb 23 00:38:38 dilinger: err... through usb I guess? Feb 23 00:38:43 i see usb0 shows up as an interface, and cdc_ether is loaded Feb 23 00:38:48 using an usb cable... Feb 23 00:38:54 and a computer with the right drivers... Feb 23 00:39:10 :) Feb 23 00:42:55 right.. you're not actually helping Feb 23 00:43:25 let's see, cdc-acm + patch? Feb 23 00:45:35 dilinger: no that's right, how am I supposed to help... I don't have an Openmoko-capable device yet Feb 23 00:45:48 :) Feb 23 00:46:29 * LuitvD just finished his draft, and is now checking it thouroughly Feb 23 00:48:42 nearly 500 words... quite an essay that is... Feb 23 00:49:09 never before wrote that much english in one document just for fun :) Feb 23 00:53:02 dangit, is it 2:30 am already? :| Feb 23 00:53:11 gotta get some rest... Feb 23 00:53:35 good luck with y'r usb dilinger ;) Feb 23 01:04:34 aww Feb 23 01:04:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 Feb 23 01:07:04 excessive guidelines there :) it's left as a TODO for the first p0 dev that needs help getting started, right? ;-) Feb 23 01:07:37 not RTFM but WTFM. Feb 23 01:12:32 well, they have to ship p0 phones before the lack of info on that page becomes a problem. Feb 23 01:12:52 *nod* Feb 23 01:13:03 yea, i didn't realize they hadn't shipped yet Feb 23 01:54:24 i wonder if the connectior engineers are back from new years yet Feb 23 02:00:17 cbpage: there are other hardware bugs that are going to delay further - seen planet.openmoko.org? Feb 23 02:07:04 http://blog.printf.net/articles/2007/02/22/unboxing-the-openmoko-phone Feb 23 02:09:40 rwhitby: they didn't sound serious "delay -wise" Feb 23 02:10:14 well, they are delaying it into march last I heard, and maybe to well into march. Feb 23 02:15:52 late march for P1, yeah Feb 23 02:18:03 I heard march for P0 now Feb 23 02:18:19 that would suck Feb 23 02:18:26 ah? where? Feb 23 02:18:52 it was here in IRC. from XorA|gone or hrw|gone (don't remember which) Feb 23 02:25:43 openmoko: 03laforge * r1081 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: this is now 'barely working', after having hunted down a number of bugs. Feb 23 02:25:52 hmm... hrw hard to say if that was informed guess or having some extra knowledge Feb 23 02:26:14 depends on how hard to fix those hardware problems are I guess, will see it in few days I guess ;-) Feb 23 02:26:45 http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.20070222.txt, around 17:50 ... Feb 23 02:27:16 * aloril did notice notice by jebba about it, but didn't go looking for further back for what hrw said .. Feb 23 02:28:05 (day ago that is) Feb 23 02:29:05 this is kind of a stupid question, but say you wanted to learn to program for an openmoko, what you want to go about learning? Feb 23 02:30:19 yellat: GTK2, GNOME. Feb 23 02:30:22 depends what application you want to write. Feb 23 02:30:50 general stuff, maybe for syncing, networking, etc Feb 23 02:30:51 if you're going to revamp the bluetooth<->usbnet<->gprs back-end handover code, then you might not need GTK or GNOME at all :-) Feb 23 02:31:31 learning C is good idea (if you don't already know it ;-) Feb 23 02:31:44 rwhitby - i seriously doubt i'd be doing that inside, a loooong while Feb 23 02:32:16 aloril - c is already on the list when i have some time, lots of school right now Feb 23 02:33:17 aloril - ubuntu already has a c compiler correct? Feb 23 02:33:51 yellat: if Python is bundled then learn it first (if its not bundled, it will be easy to install and probably soon have bindings for most functionality (for a lot it already has) Feb 23 02:34:51 yellat: sure, gcc includes C, C++, etc..: however I don't think its installed by default, Python most likely is installed by default in ubuntu Feb 23 02:35:16 if you need to learn programming, learn Python first and then go to C Feb 23 02:36:34 (installing gcc of course is easy ;-) Feb 23 02:37:35 I've tried python before, it was not too hard to pick up but it has been a few years. If it isn't to much to ask, what would be the differences between what you could do with gtk2/python/gnome/c Feb 23 02:38:18 in short: you can code faster in Python, but code runs faster in C Feb 23 02:38:20 aloril - i'm not worried about installing it, just not sure what it was called Feb 23 02:38:38 gtk2/gnome is the gui basicly? Feb 23 02:38:47 (you can use C code fro Python too) Feb 23 02:39:00 gnome is not bundled, only gtk2 + openmoko additions Feb 23 02:39:06 yellat: you can do gtk2/gnome in Python, but Python may not be shipped on the device. Feb 23 02:39:07 gtk2 already has python bindings Feb 23 02:39:20 aloril: there are some GNOME technologies in there, e.g. evolution-data-server. Feb 23 02:39:37 cjb: OK Feb 23 02:39:45 so learning c would carry over to the python/gtk2 productively Feb 23 02:39:50 yes. Feb 23 02:39:54 cjb, you gotta write up some more in your blog as you're nearly the only person to have actually held one of these things! :) Feb 23 02:40:12 yeah, I think it's the photo with it actually turned on. Feb 23 02:40:13 cjb you've handled one Feb 23 02:40:20 how was it? Feb 23 02:40:54 in fact, it may be the only photo with it actually running the current software and not a mockup that i've seen.... Feb 23 02:41:16 yellat: good. Feb 23 02:41:39 yellat: you mention of having picket up Python already, go for C then (just install gcc, gdb and maybe some IDE of your choosing) Feb 23 02:42:42 cjb - thats very exciting to hear Feb 23 02:44:09 cjb: If you know how to get positions out of the GPS, a strace of agpsd getting a lock from cold, then positions every half an hour would be interesting to put somewhere, for those of us interesting in cracking the hammerhead. Feb 23 02:46:16 aloril - thats pretty much what i'd decided to do, was curious about other options though. off to install gcc and such Feb 23 02:46:26 yellat: to install the C compiler gcc and all the other things you need to getting started with C, just install the "build-essential" package, which will also include gcc, g++, make, libc6-dev etc. Feb 23 02:46:38 k Feb 23 02:46:45 thanks for answerings my questions Feb 23 02:47:34 all you need after that is to decide upon a good editor/IDE to code in. Feb 23 02:48:18 aevin - i'm open to suggestions there as well Feb 23 02:48:37 free or cheap is the only real limit there Feb 23 02:50:55 yellat: you can just develop for PC (just keep in mind of 480x640 280dpi screen), but once you want it on phone, you need to set up OE (for cross compiling, etc.., unless you install gcc in phone ;-) Feb 23 02:50:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Feb 23 02:51:25 (ie.. above is really relevant once you have actual hardware ;-) Feb 23 02:51:43 aloril - pc probably compiles a lot faster though Feb 23 02:51:48 (though you can do it now too if you want, but its not needed) Feb 23 02:52:17 yellat: yep and you can test on PC easier too than on phone/emulator and things should run just fine on phone Feb 23 02:53:00 its pretty normal Linux distribution after all, on small device Feb 23 02:58:08 i probably could, i doubt anything i write for awhile will be very intensive. is the size of sd card it can work with limited at 1/2gigs or is that unclear/driver/? related **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 23 02:59:57 2007