**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 24 02:59:58 2007 Feb 24 03:44:11 * rwhitby moves the mokomakefile svn repo to svn.nslu2-linux.org ... Feb 24 03:51:06 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r10 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (openmoko-dates.patch series): Added openmoko-dates svn repo patch Feb 24 03:51:17 ok, that works :-) Feb 24 04:07:36 rwhitby, nice :) Feb 24 04:09:58 jebba: please don't commit anything to projects.openmoko.org. MokoMakefile has moved. Unfortunately, I can't give you write access on the other server, but at least you'll be able to get the patches by anon svn from there. Feb 24 04:10:13 I'll move it back as soon as anon svn works on projects.openmoko.org Feb 24 04:11:38 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r11 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Moved MokoMakefile to svn.nslu2-linux.org until anon svn access is fixed on projects.openmoko.org ... Feb 24 04:12:43 "make update-makefile" and enjoy the head-building goodness .. Feb 24 04:12:58 gn Feb 24 04:13:21 (jebba: you'll need to move away the patches dir, and run "make setup-patches" to get it from the new location) Feb 24 04:28:55 rwhitby, i'm not really comforable committing directly at this point. i'll just run it by you or bugzilla first. Feb 24 04:29:49 openmoko doesn't have a bugzilla (it's not part of official openmoko), but you can certainly raise the real bugs (the ones that mokomakefile works around) in the openmoko bugzilla. Feb 24 04:45:16 who/what is CIA-7? Feb 24 04:51:56 cia.navi.cx Feb 24 04:52:35 e.g. http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/openmoko Feb 24 05:08:24 openmoko: 03werner * r1093 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (boot-menu.patch console-ansi.patch default-env.patch series): Feb 24 05:08:24 openmoko: default-env.patch: provide a central "reset to default environment" function Feb 24 05:08:24 openmoko: console-ansi.patch: add basic ANSI escape sequence processing to cfb-console Feb 24 05:08:24 openmoko: boot-menu.patch: add a boot menu Feb 24 06:07:56 cool, dillo works in qemu image ;) Feb 24 06:36:55 openmoko: 03werner * r1094 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (8 files): First experimental version of the device bringup tool. Feb 24 06:37:42 hah Feb 24 07:59:28 hmm some hardcoded url in openmokomakefile that's wrong? Feb 24 08:05:17 it fails with 404 Feb 24 08:34:30 hello? :P Feb 24 09:17:37 DesktopMa: what is the MokoMakefile problem you were referring to? Feb 24 09:18:54 two secs I'll get the error message Feb 24 09:20:09 it connects to openembedded.org, sends a http request, and get 404 in return Feb 24 09:20:10 bbiab (kids to bed) Feb 24 09:20:14 no other output really Feb 24 09:20:35 what is the output of mtn --version ? Feb 24 09:22:09 where's mtn? Feb 24 09:22:54 oh, it tries to fetch snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-.mtn.bz2 Feb 24 09:23:01 I assume that's not correct :) Feb 24 09:26:18 MTN_VERSION is empty Feb 24 09:26:25 so the macro that fetches it must be failing Feb 24 09:27:48 did you complete step 1? Feb 24 09:31:03 after adding a symlink to usr/bin/monotone (it's not called mtn here) Feb 24 09:31:07 it outputted version .024 Feb 24 09:31:09 err, 0.24 Feb 24 09:31:17 so too old i guess Feb 24 09:32:31 yep, way too old. Feb 24 09:32:41 says "monotone is already newest version" though Feb 24 09:32:42 hmm Feb 24 09:32:45 something's up Feb 24 09:34:49 0.24 is newest in ubuntu Feb 24 09:34:50 hmm Feb 24 09:38:05 ok replaced it manually Feb 24 09:38:06 does stuf Feb 24 09:38:07 :) Feb 24 09:39:32 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r12 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added check for MTN_VERSION not defined, with helpful error message. Feb 24 09:39:56 might be a note somewhere? Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) requires manual install of newest monotone Feb 24 09:40:14 DesktopMa: Please add your note to the web page referenced in step 1. Feb 24 09:40:25 will do Feb 24 09:43:03 or perhaps just move the note that is already there to somewhere where you would have seen it ... Feb 24 09:43:56 lol Feb 24 09:44:14 Ubuntu note: Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) requires manual install of newest monotone, Get it from Feb 24 09:44:14 http://packages.debian.org/testing/devel/monotone Feb 24 09:44:21 that's pretty much it Feb 24 09:46:58 I don't have a wiki user, but I'll change it once I wake up (if someone hasn't already) Feb 24 09:47:03 I'll be back later though :) Feb 24 09:57:42 hmm one of the biggest problems for the neo seems to be memory Feb 24 09:57:50 DeVol: why? Feb 24 09:58:09 64mb flash is hardly enough to put some mp3 or maps on, if you're thiking mp3 player or navigation device Feb 24 09:58:29 and only usb extension? Feb 24 09:58:40 high volume data have to be on miniSD Feb 24 09:58:43 i'd have to walk with a neo with a usb memory stick plugged in ? Feb 24 09:59:01 there is miniSD ? Feb 24 09:59:07 yes Feb 24 09:59:15 dual SIM, miniSD Feb 24 10:06:24 hello Feb 24 10:08:43 hooray for minisd - glad it's not microsd/transflash Feb 24 10:09:14 minisd? Feb 24 10:09:22 isn't it microsd in the neo? Feb 24 10:10:07 think so Feb 24 10:10:17 but isnt one of the SIM slots used for your GSM card ? Feb 24 10:10:40 ... Feb 24 10:10:59 err. you have a SIM slot for the SIM card, and a MicroSD slot for the MicroSD card... Feb 24 10:11:07 or isn't that what you mean? Feb 24 10:12:34 neither dual sim nor minisd Feb 24 10:12:37 normal sim, microsd Feb 24 10:13:00 up to 2Gb Feb 24 10:13:09 most likely Feb 24 10:13:20 at least up to 2GB Feb 24 10:13:23 + you can add a usb stick i guess Feb 24 10:13:35 but that makes it even uglier than it already is :) Feb 24 10:13:37 yeah, if you add power to the usb plug Feb 24 10:13:48 oh yeh its unpowered usb :(\ Feb 24 10:13:53 the USB host controller is unpowered Feb 24 10:13:53 yeah Feb 24 10:15:34 but who cares... you can transmit data using BT2.0 Feb 24 10:15:44 or GPRS for that matter... Feb 24 10:33:46 good luck finding BT access point on the road tho Feb 24 10:34:03 mhh so when is chinese new year holiday over Feb 24 10:34:06 monday? Feb 24 10:34:27 counter Feb 24 10:34:27 now Feb 24 10:34:27 P0: 5 days 00:51:17 (-0.964 - 5.036 days); P1: 21.036 - 36.036; P2: 189.036 - 219.036 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (394) Feb 24 10:34:49 buz: a friend of mine in hongkong is back at work today Feb 24 10:35:12 buz: and he told me he hasn't seen an e2881 device yet... Feb 24 10:35:31 well i think they arent shipping Feb 24 10:35:46 as well as any other e28 device Feb 24 10:35:53 that is rather bad Feb 24 10:35:58 so I think he isn't interested.. :P Feb 24 10:36:09 I think he just doesn't look at those device Feb 24 10:36:10 s Feb 24 10:36:18 then again it is a somewhat obscure device Feb 24 10:36:28 http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k90/crunchgear/February%202007/IMGP0218.jpg Feb 24 10:36:29 lol Feb 24 10:36:33 it's held upside-down Feb 24 10:37:38 why the curved sides Feb 24 10:37:42 seems like a waste of space to me Feb 24 10:38:19 yes Feb 24 10:38:50 i want that e2881 so bad Feb 24 10:39:12 meh... I'm not even sure anymore Feb 24 10:39:18 why Feb 24 10:39:27 if it could run openmoko, it would be the perfect device Feb 24 10:39:32 yeah Feb 24 10:39:36 but Feb 24 10:39:43 we're not even sure about that yet Feb 24 10:39:53 and we don't know what happens if we brick an e2881 Feb 24 10:40:06 (the neo1973 can be unbricked by JTAG) Feb 24 10:40:08 we must find a way to boot from sd without bricking it Feb 24 10:40:20 kexec would help Feb 24 10:40:28 why kexec? Feb 24 10:40:33 it most likely uses u-boot Feb 24 10:40:34 cause you can replace kernel on the fly with it Feb 24 10:40:48 yeah but you wont have sd support in uboot Feb 24 10:41:01 are you sure? Feb 24 10:41:07 i very much doubt it Feb 24 10:41:08 the neo has... Feb 24 10:41:14 are you sure? Feb 24 10:41:18 yeah :) Feb 24 10:41:26 quite sure Feb 24 10:41:36 u-boot can do quite much... Feb 24 10:42:11 actually it seems it can do it Feb 24 10:42:55 how do they get the firmware on the device in the factory, anyway? Feb 24 10:43:01 I hope the e2881 can load it's kernel and initrd from microSD Feb 24 10:43:02 temporary jtag? Feb 24 10:43:34 I think they flash it using either a normal flash programmer, or a jtag programmer Feb 24 10:44:37 can you even connect to current nand flash chips without soldering them first? Feb 24 10:44:54 err... Feb 24 10:44:56 not sure Feb 24 10:45:16 and when they are soldered in, the flash programmer probably wont work Feb 24 10:45:23 so there is probably jtag Feb 24 10:45:25 ... Feb 24 10:45:27 not true Feb 24 10:46:14 you can design the pcb so you can access the needed pins to flash it Feb 24 10:46:37 in any case, there should be a way to reflash the damn thing Feb 24 10:46:45 and usually they can be updated, anyhow Feb 24 10:46:53 yeah... Feb 24 10:47:04 probably the same way the neo can be reprogrammed Feb 24 10:47:07 through USB Feb 24 10:48:21 then again, do we really need to mess with the kernel? Feb 24 10:48:25 all we really need is getting root Feb 24 10:48:43 ... Feb 24 10:48:46 not sure Feb 24 10:49:08 i wonder if openmoko could run on 2.4 Feb 24 10:49:18 it should, but not sure Feb 24 10:49:33 ... Feb 24 10:49:44 we'll see... or we won't :P Feb 24 10:49:51 damn right Feb 24 10:51:09 nooow, if we could get openmoko onto toshiba g900 Feb 24 10:51:18 that would be a worty cause Feb 24 10:51:26 :) Feb 24 10:53:07 i wonder if there are any specs for other toshiba phones Feb 24 11:28:25 counter Feb 24 11:28:26 P0: 4 days 23:57:19 (-1.002 - 4.998 days); P1: 20.998 - 35.998; P2: 188.998 - 218.998 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (395) Feb 24 11:29:18 + counting ;) Feb 24 11:43:13 hello xkr47 and Fletch Feb 24 11:43:36 yo LuitvD Feb 24 11:44:01 are you one of the 50 lucky basterd waiting for p0? Feb 24 11:44:10 s/terd/terds/ Feb 24 11:44:11 LuitvD meant: are you one of the 50 lucky basterds waiting for p0? Feb 24 11:46:17 hello Feb 24 11:46:31 good afternoon Feb 24 11:46:46 Good evening :) it is 19:20 here in BKK Feb 24 11:47:08 good morning.. :) Feb 24 11:47:31 Regardless of what time it is, I figure it is probably hottest here. Feb 24 11:48:48 LuitvD: no, I'm one of the lucky 10000 bastards waiting for p1 :) Feb 24 11:48:57 lool Feb 24 11:49:07 I don't know, it is only 31C now Feb 24 11:49:07 I'm also a lucky bastard because I bought my first own flat yesterday! :) Feb 24 11:49:14 Earlier today it was like 37C Feb 24 11:49:19 good for you! how big is it? Feb 24 11:49:22 Anyway, I have checked out openmoko a little bit... Relevant background is many years of linux experience incl with moto ezx phones Feb 24 11:49:26 47m² :) Feb 24 11:49:31 niiice Feb 24 11:49:43 And I am interested in what separates openmoko from openezx type work? Feb 24 11:49:44 my nick knew that 10 years ago already :) Feb 24 11:50:18 c5jr: if you want to find out more about moko, look at the wiki :) Feb 24 11:50:37 xkr47: where did you get the 47 from then? Feb 24 11:50:45 I've done that a bit. Feb 24 11:50:58 c5jr: then do some more :) Feb 24 11:51:05 my nick is entirely random keystrokes Feb 24 11:51:16 Thank you for being so welcoming to potential contributors :) Feb 24 11:51:30 after a few attempts, I got xkr~47.. I removed the ~ because irc doesn't allow it :) Feb 24 11:51:32 c5jr: most of the more important people are at FOSDEM... so ... Feb 24 11:51:40 meh lucky them Feb 24 11:51:40 xkr47: lol, that's odd Feb 24 11:51:56 c5jr: yeah... maybe I'll just drop by too... Feb 24 11:51:59 :) Feb 24 11:52:03 IDK I'd still rather be here in Bangkok Feb 24 11:52:11 why? Feb 24 11:52:19 Good weather, good food, and so on. Feb 24 11:52:23 Great chicks, too. Feb 24 11:52:24 random nick is great, a google search only shows stuff really related to you (and some few base64 encoded texts :) Feb 24 11:52:26 If you swing that way. Feb 24 11:52:29 :) Feb 24 11:52:50 Decent work, if you can stand some of the things about Thai culture. Feb 24 11:53:06 Such as coups, and martial law. Feb 24 11:53:24 Anyway, maybe I'll try back once FOSDEM is over. Feb 24 11:55:22 can anyone help me a bit with OE? Feb 24 11:55:32 xkr47: my brother had something similar :) he somehow got to the word "glbebr" Feb 24 11:55:45 i have builded openmoko-devel-image for x86 and now seeking for the binaries Feb 24 11:55:55 xkr47: the only google hit by that time was a GLass BEad BRacelet :) Feb 24 11:56:01 but cannot find any..it builds just ipk files or rootfs also? Feb 24 11:56:22 Magon: how are you building? Feb 24 11:56:38 bitbake openmoko-devel-image Feb 24 11:57:21 Magon: I think the anonymous subversion server won't work properly... does bitbake exit correctly? or does it leave you with an error? Feb 24 11:57:32 exit correctly Feb 24 11:57:40 all is builded Feb 24 11:57:44 how odd... Feb 24 11:57:56 i had corrected few bugs Feb 24 11:58:06 ie openmoko-dates Feb 24 11:58:23 hmm... i have no idea... Feb 24 11:58:37 what does it make for you? Feb 24 11:59:08 it doesn't :P Feb 24 12:00:03 it doesnt build? Feb 24 12:01:01 Does anybody know if there are some other pictures available of the Neo except the new ones from http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/af9aa618ea7c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html ? Feb 24 12:01:29 I know the Gizmodo ones Feb 24 12:01:48 but pictures comparing the size of the Neo to other phones would be nice Feb 24 12:03:03 those popsci pictures are the only new ones I've seen... Feb 24 12:03:13 oh wait, linuxdevices had some new ones I guess.. Feb 24 12:03:17 of the orange one? Feb 24 12:03:25 not sure if those were new pictures though... Feb 24 12:03:52 I really like those first and second pictures of popsci Feb 24 12:04:26 stefan|embeddedr: embedded what? Feb 24 12:04:52 hmm, could take pictures here at fosdem I guess. Feb 24 12:05:09 LuitvD: Fosdem embedded room Feb 24 12:05:19 :) Feb 24 12:05:20 Waiting for 'porting driver to 2.6' talk Feb 24 12:05:33 how is fosdem sofar? Feb 24 12:05:45 yeah that would be cool LarstiQ . Some shots which show the Neo next to another Smartphone would be nice. Feb 24 12:05:47 * fluffs has lack of usb a->b cable :( Feb 24 12:05:57 stefan|embeddedr: have you been to the beerparty? Feb 24 12:06:21 LarstiQ: yeah, please do :D Feb 24 12:06:24 LuitvD: :) Feb 24 12:06:37 LarstiQ: try to change my mind with magic pictures :) Feb 24 12:06:52 fluffs: You can fetch one in the embedded room from me if you like. Feb 24 12:06:55 LuitvD, whats your mind ? :D Feb 24 12:06:58 xkr47: http://www.tibetana.com/images/glbebr.jpg << those are the glass bead bracelets, the first glbebr :) Feb 24 12:07:03 LuitvD: Yes Feb 24 12:07:20 denis^da: I'm doubtful about buying a neo1973 Feb 24 12:07:40 denis^da: I still can't choose between Neo1973 and E2881 Feb 24 12:07:56 LuitvD: now I just need to acquire a photo making device ;) Feb 24 12:08:05 stefan|embeddedr: which belgian beer did they serve? Feb 24 12:08:18 LarstiQ: lol :) Feb 24 12:08:25 * fluffs will have to find where that is, not sure aobut the porting tlak, but i'll want to go and see the openmoko talk Feb 24 12:08:48 LarstiQ: then try to combine http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/af9aa618ea7c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd/2.html and the previous picture :) Feb 24 12:08:49 fluffs: that's at 17:00, right? Feb 24 12:09:13 fluffs: It's in the other building. Feb 24 12:09:17 LarstiQ, you will find a photo camera at FOSDEM for sure _D Feb 24 12:09:39 hmm... if I'd leave now, I might be able to be there for the openmoko talk... Feb 24 12:10:07 fluffs, LarstiQ: Be carefull with the openmoko talk. Perhaps they move into another room. To many people like to see the talk. Not sure yet. Feb 24 12:10:23 :) Feb 24 12:10:28 stefan|embeddedr: figures Feb 24 12:10:34 fluffs: If you enter the building just always ro right. Feb 24 12:10:47 stefan|embeddedr: it's easy to tell why so many people want to see it :) Feb 24 12:11:06 right Feb 24 12:11:50 stefan|embeddedr: can you check, and if needed make sure, that one of these will be at the openmoko talk? http://www.fosdem.org/2007/announcement/video Feb 24 12:11:53 :) Feb 24 12:12:00 then I can see the talk too Feb 24 12:13:16 LuitvD: If I understand correctly they only make videos in the both main rooms Feb 24 12:13:30 lol, stefan|embeddedr: the beer-evend was flooded I hear? Feb 24 12:13:48 total bill of 3k euros? Feb 24 12:14:10 LuitvD: 5,1K Feb 24 12:14:16 :D Feb 24 12:14:17 LuitvD: And yes, totally flooded Feb 24 12:15:04 widow size 30 Feb 24 12:15:07 lol, did you do the fosdem dance yet? Feb 24 12:15:11 sigh. Feb 24 12:15:24 :P Feb 24 12:17:02 SpeedEvil: what? Feb 24 12:17:04 Koen train? :-) Feb 24 12:18:45 LuitvD: I was trying to type /window size 30 Feb 24 12:18:53 :P Feb 24 12:18:59 To make the Openmoko window 30 lines high. Feb 24 12:19:25 can anyone please make sure there's someone video-ing the moko talk? :( Feb 24 12:19:53 looking at fosdem 2006 video's now... wanna see the right ones this year Feb 24 12:21:45 hi Feb 24 12:24:10 I hope there are free seats in the moko talk. Feb 24 12:25:18 openmoko: 03laforge * r1095 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): split 'MISCCR' definitions to separate patch Feb 24 12:26:08 LaF0rge: patching from fosdem? :P Feb 24 12:27:03 Laforge seems to be not here Feb 24 12:27:32 ah, okay... Feb 24 12:27:52 openmoko: 03laforge * r1096 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410_udc.patch: Feb 24 12:27:52 openmoko: * add proper handling of control write transfers Feb 24 12:27:52 openmoko: * use u-boot standard 'debug' function instead of private macros Feb 24 12:27:52 openmoko: * introduce 'neo1973 udc pullup' command Feb 24 12:29:06 openmoko: 03laforge * r1097 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: * bring DFU code to a state where it reliably supports UPLOAd from all partitions and download into RAM Feb 24 12:29:33 openmoko: 03laforge * r1098 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-neo1973-resume.patch: remove MISCCR definitions in resume patch Feb 24 12:29:46 openmoko: 03laforge * r1099 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/series: comment out all 'suspicious' patches Feb 24 12:29:59 :) Feb 24 12:30:15 probably got of the plane or something Feb 24 12:31:43 have anybody a answer to the thread about the Schematics/PCB? Will the be availableß Feb 24 12:31:52 *available Feb 24 12:32:19 There have been no answers yet. Feb 24 12:32:23 i doubt it Feb 24 12:32:26 I suspect probably not. Feb 24 12:32:28 but i dont know Feb 24 12:32:45 There is little that's really needed IMO. Feb 24 12:32:54 What were you thinking of? Feb 24 12:32:59 they've never said they would be. the schematics are owned by FIC, not OpenMoko Inc. Feb 24 12:33:32 i ask only, because one have ask on the mailinglist ;) But it would be nice ;) Feb 24 12:34:02 yes, it would be nice. but don't hold your breath waiting :-) Feb 24 12:34:16 Personally, I don't much care, as anything interesting - I2C - is going to be easy to pull off the LM4857 or whatever. Feb 24 12:34:59 a few geeks would be use the hardware access to many interesting things so i hope that will be available Feb 24 12:35:06 Yeah. Feb 24 12:35:07 :D Feb 24 12:35:43 our Multimedia-Geek-Phone ;) Feb 24 12:35:53 The only thing I'd really like as an external connector would be: I2C, USB, bat V+, Ground, brought out to a socket in the back. Feb 24 12:36:12 yes that would be very nice :D Feb 24 12:36:13 Maybe ... 9, 10 lines. Feb 24 12:36:21 stefan|embeddedr: where are you sat? Feb 24 12:36:29 * fluffs is just by the door, second row back Feb 24 12:36:36 we have a usb mini connector in Feb 24 12:36:53 There is one, but it's not really accessible from an add-on back. Feb 24 12:37:13 because it is unpowered? Feb 24 12:37:26 or what you mean? Feb 24 12:37:28 no because its at the side Feb 24 12:37:29 No, because it would mean a stubby cable going round the side. Feb 24 12:38:15 I'm meaning a simple replacement back cover, that's 5mm or so thicker, and does 'stuff'. Feb 24 12:38:52 ah ok you mean that ^^ Feb 24 12:40:42 the developers become the phone without the case, or? Feb 24 12:41:24 noo... Feb 24 12:41:30 The phone comes with a case. Feb 24 12:41:37 With a 'flat' back. Feb 24 12:41:43 it's just that some people want extra functions in it Feb 24 12:41:51 I'm wondering about a modified back, with extra functions. Feb 24 12:41:56 and are planning on developing a special backplate Feb 24 12:42:01 why give it than only so less photos? Feb 24 12:42:03 SpeedEvil: lol, sorry :P Feb 24 12:42:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back Feb 24 12:42:25 yeah :) Feb 24 12:42:35 SpeedEvil: so what would you like to have in there? Feb 24 12:42:45 Personally. Feb 24 12:42:50 SD card fullsized slot. Feb 24 12:42:53 all that's in [[Expension Back]]? Feb 24 12:42:59 at least. Feb 24 12:43:12 :P Feb 24 12:43:13 Probably several switches, and an LED or two. Feb 24 12:43:18 why leds? Feb 24 12:43:22 Status. Feb 24 12:43:23 just for status indication? Feb 24 12:43:34 status of what Feb 24 12:43:36 And to do a knight rider impression :) Feb 24 12:43:49 what would you like to read out of 2 or 3 lights? Feb 24 12:44:06 email status, wifi/bluetooth/gprs/... Feb 24 12:44:16 actually... it'd be hard to get a whole bunch of leds in there, but it should be possible Feb 24 12:44:17 Of course a small USB wifi dongle. Feb 24 12:44:28 the capacity of the accu for example Feb 24 12:44:39 With I2C, you can trivially put hundreds on there. But the battery is an issue. Feb 24 12:44:42 if the PCB design allows you to acces the I2C bus, then you're practically done already... Feb 24 12:44:49 A small flashing LED is not a large power draw. Feb 24 12:45:01 If it's annoying, then worst case, USB can be used. Feb 24 12:45:14 Or the vibrator motor output. Feb 24 12:45:24 yeah... probably... Feb 24 12:45:43 openmoko: 03laforge * r1100 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/series: re-enable obviously unrelated patches Feb 24 12:45:44 why give it so few photos of the neo1973, when any developer get the case? Feb 24 12:45:57 There are currently very few cases. Feb 24 12:45:59 maybe some people would like dip switches to configure certain things ... Feb 24 12:46:10 very small switches... Feb 24 12:46:14 SpeedEvil: how you mean? Feb 24 12:46:29 only Sean have a case? Feb 24 12:46:41 openmoko: 03laforge * r1101 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/series: too early :( back out bootmeny due to default_env() dependency Feb 24 12:46:46 PBeck: not all the current prototyping devices have cases... Feb 24 12:47:09 PBeck: the real prototyping devices (the Phase 0 devices) will be ready in a week Feb 24 12:47:13 LuitvD: I want to try a thumbstick on the back. Feb 24 12:47:26 14:15:45 < SpeedEvil> The phone comes with a case. Feb 24 12:47:28 SpeedEvil: yeah, that'd be cool :) Feb 24 12:47:31 that have confused me Feb 24 12:47:47 PBeck: the current devices aren't actual release devices Feb 24 12:48:10 PBeck: within 5 days the first real (complete) prototypes will be shipped Feb 24 12:48:22 and in a month, you can order one yourself Feb 24 12:48:30 for $350 Feb 24 12:48:31 i thought the developers get the phone already Feb 24 12:48:42 some do Feb 24 12:48:57 very few - 5? Feb 24 12:48:58 some more important people, and some lucky basterds Feb 24 12:49:07 ok but the official phase 0 begin at the 11 March? Feb 24 12:49:12 SpeedEvil: that'd be my estimate too Feb 24 12:49:33 PBeck: that's not certain yet... there were some hardware issues found a couple of days ago Feb 24 12:49:42 PBeck: but most likely within 5 days Feb 24 12:49:57 ok thats good :) Feb 24 12:50:17 PBeck: 50 of those phase 0 devices will go out to 50 developers for free... :( Feb 24 12:51:10 i will order a phone too, and hope that it will be a success and FIC works on addition phones :) Feb 24 12:51:39 lol, the mokomakefile created over 250 000 files :D Feb 24 12:51:52 PBeck: oh they will... Feb 24 12:52:33 LuitvD: how many were you expecting? Feb 24 12:52:40 LuitvD: i hope they make a good job, that i can use the phone as i like ;) Feb 24 12:52:59 LuitvD: that sounds good, i hope you are right ;) Feb 24 12:53:00 rwhitby: how many files? Feb 24 12:53:19 rwhitby: not a quarter of a million files :) Feb 24 12:53:25 Hmm. Stick on back actually seems to work quite well. Hold the phone as you would to make a call - with your fingers and thumb round the edge. The finger next to the thumb easily moves over to the middle of the device to run a stick. Feb 24 12:54:47 which color should the phone have for you SpeedEvil ;) Feb 24 12:56:22 http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/af9aa618ea7c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html <= grey is anyhow nice too ;) Feb 24 12:56:41 but orange too :P Feb 24 12:56:45 argh thats a problem ;) Feb 24 12:57:18 PBeck: you like the white-orange version? Feb 24 12:57:48 i think that version nice too ;) Feb 24 12:58:02 i think many versions cool :P Feb 24 12:58:41 I'd love to see graphite+orange :) Feb 24 12:59:05 graphite? Feb 24 12:59:23 Camo! Feb 24 12:59:30 PBeck: black! Feb 24 12:59:46 ok Feb 24 12:59:51 PBeck: graphite = a slight bit lighter then black Feb 24 13:00:04 which the 'black' FIC Neo1973 is Feb 24 13:00:26 http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_neo1973_orange_4views.jpg <= orange-white :) Feb 24 13:00:42 seen that :) Feb 24 13:00:46 Those are just renderings though, I'm pretty sure. Feb 24 13:00:58 I think the only actual case shot in detail is the one at popsci. Feb 24 13:00:59 but I'd still like that orange on the black device Feb 24 13:01:10 LuitvD: sound nice, but i musst look first at the device ,) Feb 24 13:01:52 http://www.engadget.com/photos/openmoko-neo1973/ Feb 24 13:01:55 LuitvD: have you seen a photo allready or a rendering? Feb 24 13:02:11 popsci has nice pictures of the black device Feb 24 13:02:18 http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/af9aa618ea7c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html Feb 24 13:02:51 that one :) Feb 24 13:02:55 yes that pictures are very nice :) Feb 24 13:03:00 and the next picture, showing the device booting up Feb 24 13:03:12 I'd like to see a more graphic boot procedure though... Feb 24 13:04:19 LuitvD: yes that would be nice. Have you read the post to the thread with the screens? ;) Feb 24 13:04:23 It'll happen. Feb 24 13:05:51 i think gradually that the grey-version is cooler ;) Feb 24 13:06:30 but i musst seen all pictures, than can i decide which i will buy ^^ Feb 24 13:07:18 btw is my english very bad? corrections ever welcome ;) Feb 24 13:08:55 hello can i install openmoko on nokia 6630 !? Feb 24 13:09:38 Chapay: you can try... Feb 24 13:11:03 Chapay: if you can brick your 6630, then you can probably make it run some sort of linux Feb 24 13:11:24 And who be tried?! Feb 24 13:12:02 LuitvD: yes it be so cool ^) Feb 24 13:12:02 I have a 6630 :D Feb 24 13:12:06 LuitvD: yes it be so cool ^) Feb 24 13:12:10 LuitvD: yes it be so cool :) Feb 24 13:12:36 gandoo: :) And still it was not tempted!? Feb 24 13:12:39 openmoko: 03laforge * r1102 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series wakeup-reason-nand-only.patch): merge and activate wakeup-reason-nand-only.patch, it's not the culprit Feb 24 13:14:23 sorry? Feb 24 13:15:41 can openmoko run on 6630???? Feb 24 13:15:47 yes Feb 24 13:16:01 you can !& Feb 24 13:16:02 you can !? Feb 24 13:16:04 there is a tutorial or similar? Feb 24 13:16:48 gandoo: sorry ? Feb 24 13:17:41 sorry but am italian and I don't speak and understand english very well... ok? :( Feb 24 13:18:41 gandoo: but i from russia :) and not whery well understand english to :) Feb 24 13:18:48 Excuse but it is time to me to run on a meeting of LUG Feb 24 13:18:57 ok Feb 24 13:19:04 see you soon Feb 24 13:19:07 bye :D Feb 24 13:19:10 by Feb 24 13:25:42 +n Feb 24 13:26:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List <= i am number 100 :P Feb 24 13:27:18 haha;> Feb 24 13:29:19 :) Feb 24 13:30:07 where the shipping start? Feb 24 13:30:59 Peobably some time very late march. Feb 24 13:31:09 I assume im taiwan Feb 24 13:31:33 ok, thank you :) Feb 24 13:42:14 <_-InFeRnO-_> hello Feb 24 13:42:19 <_-InFeRnO-_> anyone give me the configure for Feb 24 13:43:03 <_-InFeRnO-_> *searching* Feb 24 13:43:22 <_-InFeRnO-_> openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery Feb 24 13:43:24 <_-InFeRnO-_> thanks Feb 24 13:43:36 <_-InFeRnO-_> autoreconf is useless on FreeBSD Feb 24 13:44:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> pleasew Feb 24 13:44:58 why is it useless? Feb 24 13:45:11 <_-InFeRnO-_> it doesn't work Feb 24 13:45:19 <_-InFeRnO-_> it creates an useless makefile Feb 24 13:45:27 <_-InFeRnO-_> only at the second run Feb 24 13:45:33 <_-InFeRnO-_> configure, not makefile Feb 24 13:45:36 configure creates makefiles Feb 24 13:45:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 13:45:55 <_-InFeRnO-_> i know Feb 24 13:46:04 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'm not that stupid ;) Feb 24 13:46:08 openmoko: 03laforge * r1103 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-neo1973-resume.patch): Feb 24 13:46:08 openmoko: * we always have to configure UPLLCON when reconfiguring MPLLCON (!) Feb 24 13:46:08 openmoko: * re-enable uboot-neo1973-resume.patch Feb 24 13:46:15 <_-InFeRnO-_> what i need is, configure Feb 24 13:46:56 <_-InFeRnO-_> it's a 1 minute job to fetch from SVN and generate the configure Feb 24 13:49:51 openmoko: 03laforge * r1104 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-cmd_s3c2410.patch: * we always have to re-configure UPLL when reconfiguring MPLL Feb 24 13:53:30 <_-InFeRnO-_> please Feb 24 14:00:09 <_-InFeRnO-_> please Feb 24 14:06:51 <_-InFeRnO-_> ne1 Feb 24 14:09:11 I have no idea how to get you that Feb 24 14:09:13 sorry Feb 24 14:33:02 <_-InFeRnO-_> I need the configure file generated by trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/autogen.sh Feb 24 14:33:27 <_-InFeRnO-_> anybody who has the source code can do this Feb 24 14:34:27 which files are generated by that script? Feb 24 14:34:44 <_-InFeRnO-_> configure Feb 24 14:34:49 <_-InFeRnO-_> i need only it Feb 24 14:35:00 only ./configure? Feb 24 14:35:03 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 14:35:09 I have that I guess... Feb 24 14:35:19 <_-InFeRnO-_> 10x Feb 24 14:35:23 oh wait... Feb 24 14:35:27 configure.ac only... Feb 24 14:35:35 it hasn't ran yet... Feb 24 14:35:55 <_-InFeRnO-_> well you can run it without the last line Feb 24 14:36:05 <_-InFeRnO-_> (which starts configure itself) Feb 24 14:36:17 <_-InFeRnO-_> run autogen, i mean Feb 24 14:39:28 <_-InFeRnO-_> is there any problem? Feb 24 14:40:25 just trying some other things first Feb 24 14:41:11 <_-InFeRnO-_> ok Feb 24 14:41:12 <_-InFeRnO-_> np Feb 24 14:42:57 ./autogen.sh: 2: autoreconf: not found Feb 24 14:43:03 :( Feb 24 14:43:20 something strange happening here.. Feb 24 14:43:22 <_-InFeRnO-_> hm Feb 24 14:43:33 <_-InFeRnO-_> i had the same Feb 24 14:43:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> it turned out to be autoreconf259 Feb 24 14:44:10 I guess the mokomakefile will bump into it eventually... Feb 24 14:44:15 cant see any photos/screenshots with keyboard Feb 24 14:44:23 thresh: keyboard? Feb 24 14:44:38 what keyboard do you mean? Feb 24 14:44:38 osd one, i assume Feb 24 14:44:39 <_-InFeRnO-_> the autogen way is stupid - it adds redundant dependancies Feb 24 14:44:46 thresh: ah, that... Feb 24 14:45:08 thresh: I haven't seen any pictures of the graphic interface on a real device yet... Feb 24 14:45:16 only terminal shots Feb 24 14:46:33 right.. Feb 24 14:48:48 i hope many developer will make photos :D Feb 24 14:49:47 or one make a lot of photos ^^ Feb 24 15:00:29 number 101 on the Buying Interest page :) when was that page launched? Feb 24 15:00:48 about a week ago? Feb 24 15:00:53 look at the history ;) Feb 24 15:01:33 february the 16th Feb 24 15:01:45 a week and one day ago Feb 24 15:02:47 then 101 ppl doesn't seem very many ? Feb 24 15:03:38 not? Feb 24 15:04:32 worldwide? Feb 24 15:04:56 otoh, it's phase1, not mass-market :) Feb 24 15:05:06 yeah Feb 24 15:06:37 Kero: cool 101 ;) Feb 24 15:06:43 101 people - of those that have actually looked at the wiki in reasonable depth. Feb 24 15:06:54 Not just skimmed it - as it's not _that_ prominent, Feb 24 15:07:02 s/./,/ Feb 24 15:08:14 SpeedEvil: yes but it is also officiall Feb 24 15:08:21 *official Feb 24 15:08:28 +not Feb 24 15:08:31 It's not official. Feb 24 15:08:33 lol Feb 24 15:08:36 SpeedEvil: actually, I search for a page to put my name on, because of the topic in this channel :) Feb 24 15:08:54 Had looked at the wiki somewhat in depth already. Feb 24 15:09:04 SpeedEvil: my typo :P Feb 24 15:09:12 :) Feb 24 15:09:25 SpeedEvil: two in one sentence ahhh :P Feb 24 15:09:52 and its only a interest list Feb 24 15:10:16 no commitments Feb 24 15:14:38 certainly. so some ppl on that list won't buy, others not on the list will buy. Feb 24 15:14:44 I'm on that list too, and not even sure anymore, because of the e2881 Feb 24 15:15:26 I have real doubts that e2881 will be helpful. Feb 24 15:15:34 me too Feb 24 15:15:36 I mean, look at the Motorola A1200 announcement. Feb 24 15:15:44 All fanfare, little substance. Feb 24 15:15:44 but it's fun to try anyways :) Feb 24 15:17:51 it's ARM based, has aGPS too, does have WiFi, has a camera... Feb 24 15:18:01 I'd really like to see that run openmoko... Feb 24 15:20:12 yeah the E2881 is cool and have a great design Feb 24 15:20:16 <_-InFeRnO-_> it doesn't have touchscreen Feb 24 15:20:21 it does Feb 24 15:20:32 and it's thin, has a nice design Feb 24 15:20:42 wifi and camera are cool Feb 24 15:20:47 <_-InFeRnO-_> i talk about the A1200 Feb 24 15:20:53 wish for the Neo1973 :( Feb 24 15:20:59 <_-InFeRnO-_> Camera is a must Feb 24 15:21:07 <_-InFeRnO-_> and untill Neo1973 has it Feb 24 15:21:10 the only thing that's worse, but not exactly 'bad', is that it's QVGA instead of VGA (e2881) Feb 24 15:21:14 _-InFeRnO-_: we talk about the E2881 Feb 24 15:21:19 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 15:21:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> it will be light years behind it Feb 24 15:21:51 :( Feb 24 15:21:56 <_-InFeRnO-_> well, VGA is way overkill Feb 24 15:22:12 <_-InFeRnO-_> (tiny screen with relatively large DPI) Feb 24 15:22:39 <_-InFeRnO-_> QVGA is fine Feb 24 15:22:57 yeah... Feb 24 15:23:00 but VGA just owns Feb 24 15:23:03 I think there is a borderline somewhere between QVGA and VGA where the limit is. Feb 24 15:23:08 nah Feb 24 15:23:11 VGA is awesome Feb 24 15:23:17 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 15:23:23 <_-InFeRnO-_> but it's useless for a phone Feb 24 15:23:58 not really... Feb 24 15:24:00 well Feb 24 15:24:02 How often do you use 5*7 fonts on your normal computer. Feb 24 15:24:11 for a phone it is, but the neo is so much more then a phone Feb 24 15:24:14 _-InFeRnO-_: it is not Feb 24 15:24:20 :) Feb 24 15:24:25 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 15:24:30 <_-InFeRnO-_> but it's overkill Feb 24 15:24:35 and I have no problems with 200+ dpi... Feb 24 15:24:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> qvga would have done just fine Feb 24 15:24:43 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 15:24:49 * LuitvD is glad he's nearsighted, not farsighted Feb 24 15:24:49 <_-InFeRnO-_> but testing Feb 24 15:25:05 i'd love 285dpi Feb 24 15:25:15 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'd love 90 dpi Feb 24 15:25:23 though i'd love to have that on the e2881 Feb 24 15:25:36 and since I can't have it all, I'll have to choose Feb 24 15:25:47 openmoko: 03werner * r1105 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) Feb 24 15:25:47 openmoko: series: enabled all backed out patches Feb 24 15:25:47 openmoko: wakeup-reason-nand-only.patch: Feb 24 15:25:47 openmoko: cpu/arm920t/start.S: manually applied failing hunk Feb 24 15:25:47 openmoko: cpu/arm920t/start.S: brought back #ifdef around booted_from_nand variable Feb 24 15:25:47 openmoko: uboot-neo1973-resume.patch: Feb 24 15:25:51 openmoko: cpu/arm920t/start.S: moved hunk "patch" applies to wrong spot (offset 33 lines) Feb 24 15:26:02 I'd love 190dpi, 480*640. Feb 24 15:26:11 4.2" Feb 24 15:26:15 nah, that's too big... Feb 24 15:26:20 aren't those the actual specs SpeedEvil ? Feb 24 15:26:24 No. Feb 24 15:26:28 3" is just ideal for a smartphone Feb 24 15:26:31 285dpi, 2.8" Feb 24 15:27:06 if you used real measurement units maybe I could figure out the size you're talking about Feb 24 15:27:31 * Kero thinks 480x640 gives you a small _readable_ font Feb 24 15:27:54 err... font size doesn't matter Feb 24 15:27:58 detail is what matters :) Feb 24 15:28:02 the smallest font on my iPAQ qvga looks crappy, but otherwise I can't fit much text on it Feb 24 15:28:05 thankfully I always have my calculator around, I see now Feb 24 15:28:07 <_-InFeRnO-_> mwahahaha Feb 24 15:28:16 <_-InFeRnO-_> (font) size matters Feb 24 15:28:30 It only really has great advantages with very small fonts - it does the antialiasing in hardware. Feb 24 15:28:32 (eyes) Feb 24 15:28:47 Get /.'d often? Feb 24 15:28:48 oops Feb 24 15:31:16 I have an A780 that I have been using regularly for nearly a year, a screen of it's size is fine for most things IMO. font size is changable... Feb 24 15:31:52 Font size is changable, but small fonts are much more readable at a font size of 9*7 or more. Feb 24 15:32:16 It isn't my LCD at work, but I don't expect to write reports or anything major like that on a phone yet. Feb 24 15:32:33 If you drop much below that - readability suffers, even with antialiasing at the same font sie. Feb 24 15:32:44 Tell me about it... Feb 24 15:32:46 size. Feb 24 15:32:48 Try Thai fonts. Feb 24 15:32:51 <_-InFeRnO-_> nobody needs very small fonts Feb 24 15:33:05 <_-InFeRnO-_> the scrollbar has been invented Feb 24 15:33:13 * SpeedEvil looks at his 80*59 term on his 600 high monitor... Feb 24 15:33:28 Well, not enough words per line can get annoying Feb 24 15:33:42 <_-InFeRnO-_> i didn't talk about huge fonts Feb 24 15:33:47 <_-InFeRnO-_> just normal fonts Feb 24 15:33:49 And his 5*7 1*160 status line. Feb 24 15:33:53 hah Feb 24 15:33:54 <_-InFeRnO-_> like this one Feb 24 15:34:08 Which one? Feb 24 15:34:15 Or huge fonts like this! Feb 24 15:34:21 <_-InFeRnO-_> this, which you see Feb 24 15:34:22 haaha Feb 24 15:34:22 With italics, that flash! Feb 24 15:34:53 <_-InFeRnO-_> a normal 10 px font (except if you have overly weird settings) Feb 24 15:35:20 I am about 3m from my display you better believe my font is larger than 10px Feb 24 15:35:37 Different sizes for different needs Feb 24 15:35:48 <_-InFeRnO-_> no you are nearsighting lol Feb 24 15:36:06 Nah I'm just drinking a beer and watching a movie too Feb 24 15:36:21 <_-InFeRnO-_> and posting on #openmoko, huh Feb 24 15:36:35 <_-InFeRnO-_> you're multitasking? Feb 24 15:36:46 Stranger things have happened. I didn't think #openmoko was a clay tablet. Feb 24 15:36:49 It happens. Feb 24 15:36:57 * gw280 waves from the OpenMoko talk at FOSDEM Feb 24 15:37:17 :) Feb 24 15:37:26 is that talk now? Feb 24 15:45:08 Does that wave include a streaming URL? :) Feb 24 15:45:17 <_-InFeRnO-_> no Feb 24 15:45:31 <_-InFeRnO-_> they use analog modem Feb 24 15:52:11 still no reply Feb 24 15:52:29 <_-InFeRnO-_> of what Feb 24 15:52:38 e28 Feb 24 15:52:49 neither Feb 24 16:01:09 i wonder if i should try it at toshiba Feb 24 16:01:23 but that one will cost at least a kidney Feb 24 16:02:51 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/22/o2_preps_flame_pmp_phone/ who makes this one? Feb 24 16:05:53 thats a sane screen Feb 24 16:05:57 3.6" vga Feb 24 16:06:51 lol, expected price 1100USD Feb 24 16:08:32 Mad cheddar. Feb 24 16:09:36 I tell you what, though: Thais will buy it. Feb 24 16:09:51 ? Feb 24 16:09:55 That is the single most important luxury item here, as far as I can tell. Feb 24 16:10:20 There are so many insanely expensive cellphones that people who cannot afford them buy. Feb 24 16:10:52 mhh so you mean if i stick neo in a new case and sell it for 1000usd they will buy it? Feb 24 16:10:55 now that sounds like business plan Feb 24 16:11:07 You could, if you could provide a few special features for them. Feb 24 16:11:14 Namely, support for their demands. Feb 24 16:11:24 special feature: very high price Feb 24 16:11:28 This is very much a service society. Feb 24 16:11:39 (works for vertu, anyway) Feb 24 16:11:41 I cannot make my own food, I have to purchase the service of food preparation. Feb 24 16:12:39 what do you mean you cant Feb 24 16:12:44 Nah, you can. Feb 24 16:13:19 It's just something to consider.. Namely, support languages. Feb 24 16:14:26 The cellphone market is giant here, all the makers know that.... I can see a big Nokia building out of my windoiw. Feb 24 16:15:16 Status is important.. Gold is passe, cars are impossible to drive most places, cellphones go with people and are social tools for social status establishment. Feb 24 16:16:13 I swear they're like plumage... The well-off make like peacocks. Feb 24 16:16:32 http://www.road-gmbh.de/pdf/ROAD_Prospekt_Prod_ENG.pdf so it really does run qtopia, would be a nice device, shame about the price Feb 24 16:16:38 * fluffs got there too late to get into the fosdem talk Feb 24 16:19:49 That does look like a nice phone. Feb 24 16:21:17 more like a really tiny notebook Feb 24 16:21:27 supposedly it does cost 1500EUR though Feb 24 16:21:34 (which is MORE than a really tiny notebook ;) Feb 24 16:21:37 touchpen? Feb 24 16:21:41 yes Feb 24 16:22:19 Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks 'stylus' sounds strange. Feb 24 16:22:35 gimme that for 500EUR and i'll order it today Feb 24 16:22:41 I mostly use my finger on my phone's touchpad. Feb 24 16:22:57 haha yah looks nice. Feb 24 16:23:19 but maybe they should add a wvga screen Feb 24 16:23:29 especially if they are really going to charge 1500EUR Feb 24 16:23:49 That is a high price for the listed resolution. Feb 24 16:24:10 But, still nice. Feb 24 16:24:11 yeah they wont sell money Feb 24 16:24:13 many Feb 24 16:24:23 Not at that price. Feb 24 16:24:42 Maybe Japanese will pay that much for cellphones. Feb 24 16:24:49 not for big ones Feb 24 16:24:52 All of their cellphones were insanely big. Feb 24 16:24:56 srsly Feb 24 16:25:05 All flipphones that were freakin giant. Feb 24 16:25:43 that xscale 263 is kinda anemic for a device like that Feb 24 16:25:49 Except for one that was designed for old people who wouldnt be able to figure out the features Feb 24 16:28:27 Yeah. Feb 24 16:29:21 I'm surprised there haven't been more directed efforts towards properly encrypting cellphone traffic. Feb 24 16:29:43 for grps its straight forward Feb 24 16:29:46 Seems like there might be room for third party services, or other things. Feb 24 16:30:13 how would encryption SERVICE work? Feb 24 16:30:20 I'm not quite sure Feb 24 16:31:30 i think you need software Feb 24 16:31:32 not services Feb 24 16:31:58 Could involve calling a number (or otherwise accessing a service) that tied into VOIP and then dialing an actual destination, with encryption between the handset and voip service. Feb 24 16:32:24 Software and services together, right? Feb 24 16:32:34 back Feb 24 16:33:47 and gone again Feb 24 16:40:34 <_-InFeRnO-_> ne1 has screenshots of openmoko's desktop Feb 24 16:44:08 <_-InFeRnO-_> ? Feb 24 16:44:18 <_-InFeRnO-_> I'm interested how it looks Feb 24 16:47:54 The mokn talk was overloaded :) Feb 24 16:48:40 250 people in a room for 80. Feb 24 16:49:47 did they record videos like last year? Feb 24 16:50:22 I think not. But not sure Feb 24 16:52:01 There will be a phase 1+ in june. Feb 24 16:52:31 Some minor hardware updates Feb 24 16:56:08 _-InFeRnO-_ http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ Feb 24 16:57:11 wz pingu^ Feb 24 16:59:37 <_-InFeRnO-_> Does the Desktop contain icona Feb 24 16:59:40 <_-InFeRnO-_> icons Feb 24 16:59:58 <_-InFeRnO-_> (i can't figure out which screen shot is of the desktop) Feb 24 17:01:06 <_-InFeRnO-_> what the heck is this http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/6ffe3cb7a9026c4d25fed1abead9c67c.png Feb 24 17:01:16 <_-InFeRnO-_> is is along other OM screenshots Feb 24 17:01:48 <_-InFeRnO-_> it's linux http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0ec33ebb982ba435582309dcd10b1754.png Feb 24 17:03:18 <_-InFeRnO-_> ne1 knows? Feb 24 17:04:46 The first link you posted is gpephone Feb 24 17:05:06 also the .2 link Feb 24 17:05:25 The brown one's is openmoko Feb 24 17:05:39 <_-InFeRnO-_> ...i wanted to hack OM into something like... gpephone? Feb 24 17:05:47 looks like this http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/02/13/orange_super_sim/ Feb 24 17:29:17 hi Feb 24 17:39:44 rwhitby this Makefile does take a while. Feb 24 17:40:08 lol Feb 24 17:40:43 I've just returned from grocery shopping, and it's still runnning. Feb 24 17:48:07 what are the best resources for a noob with openembedded Feb 24 17:48:09 it ran for several hours here, before crashing Feb 24 17:48:23 no no don't crash Feb 24 17:48:41 i did have to install quilt, but that's the only hiccup so far Feb 24 17:49:43 :) Feb 24 17:49:52 did yours crash because of Rob's Makefile of because the underlying instructions don't work? Feb 24 17:50:21 where did you get the mokomakefile from, and do you have access to the real svn? Feb 24 17:50:58 s/Rob/Rod/ Feb 24 17:50:58 DukeOfURL meant: did yours crash because of Rod's Makefile of because the underlying instructions don't work? Feb 24 17:51:01 coz' rod told me building won't work on anonymous svn access Feb 24 17:51:38 http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cjb/moko.jpg Feb 24 17:51:39 :D Feb 24 17:51:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Feb 24 17:53:27 hmm... not sure if that will work out... Feb 24 17:57:12 crashed: svn: PROPFIND of '/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches': Server certificate verification failed: issuer is not trusted (https://svn.openmoko.org) Feb 24 17:57:37 thought that was the anonymous subversion problem... Feb 24 18:00:36 why aren't projects shown in the actual project tree? Feb 24 18:00:47 (on projects.openmoko.org) Feb 24 18:04:11 pretty sparse Feb 24 18:05:32 does it download all revisions or something? takes quite a while Feb 24 18:18:51 I want this sensor: http://www.topgold.cn/en/oem/Sensor.asp Feb 24 18:20:36 plain noodles?? Feb 24 18:20:43 :) Feb 24 18:21:28 Bill Murray could figure it out Feb 24 18:22:53 page doesn't load... Feb 24 18:23:35 Awww. It's a camera page, with some odd language :) Feb 24 18:25:18 it's weird... no response from that site at all Feb 24 18:26:20 as if I got no route to that host... Feb 24 18:27:06 it makes over 15 hops... Feb 24 18:27:27 400ms ping already, after 16 hops Feb 24 18:27:36 20 hops Feb 24 18:27:41 and there it halts Feb 24 18:28:08 very strange Feb 24 18:29:08 It's not really worth bothering about - it's just a camera page with terrible english. Feb 24 18:29:09 do you have a loop in your network? Feb 24 18:29:35 lol Feb 24 18:29:42 .cn... that's china right Feb 24 18:29:43 ? Feb 24 18:29:49 yes Feb 24 18:31:13 heheh, hops: adsl.wanadoo.nl (my host) >>> euro net (4 times) >> Opentransit Amsterdam >>> Opentransit London >>> Opentransit Ashburn >>> Opentransit LosAngeles >>> Opentransit China Feb 24 18:31:26 and after that nothing but unidentified hops Feb 24 18:31:38 MI0360 is the Micron sensor, it is 1/4 inches that the chip sense plain noodles are accumulated, there are few result good color result Feb 24 18:31:48 oh comeon not even babelfish is THAT bad Feb 24 18:31:56 tho noodles and chips sound good Feb 24 18:31:56 :) Feb 24 18:32:13 i wanna see one of those liquid lense cams Feb 24 18:32:17 you didn't want to go to China, anyway, now did you? Feb 24 18:32:29 not really Feb 24 18:32:33 not live there anyway Feb 24 18:36:25 * buz is wearing a tinfoil hat and trying to figure out how to send backups to non trusted hosts... Feb 24 18:38:25 Encryption. Feb 24 18:38:39 What do you mean by non-trusted? Feb 24 18:38:42 :) Feb 24 18:38:52 yeah but how do you efficiently do incremental backups then Feb 24 18:39:12 (technically, duplicity solves that issue but that one is so buggy its rather dangerous) Feb 24 18:39:27 SpeedEvil: i trust it not to delete my stuff, but i dont trust the admin not to read it Feb 24 18:39:31 Ah. Feb 24 18:39:43 think amazon s3 or something like that Feb 24 18:40:13 rsync does not transfer the raw files to diff. Feb 24 18:40:30 you cant do rsync without plaintext files on the other side Feb 24 18:40:35 If you encrypted the files by 1K blocks, and taught rdiff about how to checksum like you wanted. Feb 24 18:40:40 (technically, that's what duplicity tries to do) Feb 24 18:40:56 then you still leak number of files and their approximate sizes Feb 24 18:40:56 Instead of checksumming the 'plain' file. Feb 24 18:41:03 True. Feb 24 18:41:12 :) Feb 24 18:41:20 There is the obvious solution to a 100% mirror. Feb 24 18:41:22 you could also just run rsync on the base data of encfs Feb 24 18:41:26 why not just backup to trusted media? Feb 24 18:41:32 because houses burn down Feb 24 18:41:37 lol Feb 24 18:41:38 Simply encrypt the drive, and then sum each block in the encrypted state. Feb 24 18:41:48 Then transmit the diffs. Feb 24 18:41:49 and what non-trusted medium doesn't burn down? Feb 24 18:41:57 SpeedEvil: i thought about that Feb 24 18:41:59 Stone circles. Feb 24 18:42:06 but it means you transmit a lot of garbage Feb 24 18:42:10 The bit density sucks though. Feb 24 18:42:16 True - metadata, ... Feb 24 18:42:27 and you cant do any compression Feb 24 18:42:44 LuitvD: somehow it is unlikely that datacenters on different continents all burn down at the same time Feb 24 18:42:58 apocalypse? Feb 24 18:43:04 now? Feb 24 18:43:15 eh i wanna go surfing first Feb 24 18:43:18 damn napalm Feb 24 18:44:25 i'm leaning towards chunks of encrypted tar.gz and a db to store where files are located Feb 24 18:45:23 The most efficient way would be for the phone to keep a journal of changes. Feb 24 18:45:29 And then just send the journal. Feb 24 18:45:42 This requires kernel hooks though. Feb 24 18:45:45 i was thinking more general filesystems Feb 24 18:45:58 if it was just the 64mb of neo, i'd really just backup the whole image Feb 24 18:46:03 Yeah. Feb 24 18:46:12 thats like 60s on usb Feb 24 18:46:17 And it's almost never going to be 60M. Feb 24 18:46:25 yeah Feb 24 18:46:34 As the first 55-60 is going to be stock packages. Feb 24 18:47:00 cryptphone Feb 24 18:47:03 i want that Feb 24 18:47:18 jffs2 on dmcrypt hehee Feb 24 18:48:50 I was able to 'svn co https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches', so why doesn't the script like it? Feb 24 18:49:06 Not especially bad - especially when you think that only the 'user data' partition needs crypted. Feb 24 18:49:25 then its easier to use encfs Feb 24 18:49:42 cause the user partition will likely have apps as well Feb 24 18:49:57 which you dont need to encrypt either Feb 24 18:50:07 there's no crypto hardware is there? Feb 24 18:50:10 No. Feb 24 18:50:39 I'd expect a few hundred K/s AES. Feb 24 18:52:00 rsync? Feb 24 18:52:17 rsync doesn't know about encryption though. Feb 24 18:52:34 (you can't encrypt on the far side) Feb 24 18:55:12 if both are mounted then it's clear from rsync viewpoint; Feb 24 18:55:40 looking in the logs, I see '/home/moko/build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-linux/gta01-kernel-2.6-200702241832/temp/run.do_deploy.8159: line 591: uboot-mkimage: command not found' Feb 24 18:56:20 aloril2: if you mount it on the other side, it might as well not be encrypted at all Feb 24 18:56:25 also if reading from microSD is not too slow, just rsync encrypted image Feb 24 18:57:04 Mounting it on the other side only gives metadata information though, not the files. Feb 24 18:58:08 buz: I mean both sides are stored on disk encrypted, but yeah this assumes you trust other machine (until its stolen) Feb 24 18:58:21 if you trust the other side, it's trivial Feb 24 18:59:13 The nice way - if you have space - is to use a journal IMO. Feb 24 18:59:18 if you use file level encryption, then no need to trust other side for file content Feb 24 18:59:23 thats true Feb 24 18:59:33 metadata however Feb 24 18:59:36 That you can short-circuit bits of, if the journal contradicts. Feb 24 18:59:48 then just send that. Feb 24 18:59:58 for a custom app, that's perfect Feb 24 19:00:25 File level encryption does give sizes though. Feb 24 19:00:30 for a fs based solution, only with a very special filesystem Feb 24 19:00:50 (dragonflybsd fs might potentially pull that one off) Feb 24 19:02:12 you could trust other side for metadata for backup time, but keep that encrypted too other times so thief would get nothing (and snooper during backup would get metadata only) Feb 24 19:02:25 yes Feb 24 19:02:45 or you just tar up files and encrypt the archives Feb 24 19:02:48 no leaking at all Feb 24 19:02:51 You also really don't want the other side being able to frob your metadata. Feb 24 19:02:59 so it's gotta be signed somehow. Feb 24 19:03:14 openmoko: 03laforge * r1106 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-dfu.patch): Feb 24 19:03:14 openmoko: * DFU now actually can do flash updates, within limited conditions Feb 24 19:03:14 openmoko: ** no transfer size % 8 allowed Feb 24 19:03:14 openmoko: ** only one upload, then USB is dead Feb 24 19:03:14 openmoko: * update series file to move u-boot to the end Feb 24 19:03:15 openmoko: test this with something like 'dfu-util -a 4 -t 4093 -D /etc/passwd' which will put your /etc/passwd from the hsot into the splash partition ;) Feb 24 19:03:48 Tar works, but suffers from having to download all changes since a full backup. Feb 24 19:03:50 mhh encfs over some network filesystem Feb 24 19:04:10 mhh no Feb 24 19:04:12 that doesnt work either Feb 24 19:04:20 it might Feb 24 19:04:54 encfs on fuse over sshfs on fuse, thats gonna be veeeery performant Feb 24 19:05:45 as for having to download everything: thats not such a big constraint for me, i keep local backups, remote ones are really the last line of defense Feb 24 19:05:54 in case the liion battery burns the house down ;) Feb 24 19:06:37 * SpeedEvil designs a keychain microSD fire-safe. Feb 24 19:06:54 Space for 10 micro-SDs. Feb 24 19:07:09 yeah, treat other side as raw disk, it will only now only amount and raw disk position: no data, no metadata Feb 24 19:07:42 <[g2]> SpeedEvil that's a good idea :) Feb 24 19:07:57 Hmm. Feb 24 19:08:04 Have a virtual local one-time pad. Feb 24 19:08:29 Now you can do things on the remote host like say 'flip bit 54 of block 399333' Feb 24 19:08:50 rather than having to send whole blocks. Feb 24 19:09:25 I tried encfs over sshfs once, didn't work, but maybe they've fixed that... Feb 24 19:10:10 * [g2] was referring to the microsd fire-safe :) Feb 24 19:10:44 It's problematic though - realistically - as you need a large thermal mass inside, and some decent thickness of insulatioin. Feb 24 19:11:04 <[g2]> or really good insulation Feb 24 19:11:09 A firesafe with a 1cm cavity won't be much smaller than one with a 10cm one. Feb 24 19:11:41 The problem is that at high temperatures, you run into problems with IR radiation being an efficient energy transport. Feb 24 19:12:10 Which means that most of the nice room temperature insulators don't work. (never mind that tehy melt) Feb 24 19:14:27 * SpeedEvil goes back to trying to convert GPS and fuel injector data into a physics model for his car. Feb 24 19:15:09 if you trust local pc, then just rsync to that same sized encrypted partition, then rsync that partition as whole to remote place Feb 24 19:17:19 SpeedEvil: i was just thinking about firesafe stuff this afternoon Feb 24 19:17:23 tho i was thinking about a usb stick case Feb 24 19:17:32 It doesn't scale. Feb 24 19:17:34 * aloril2 means, neo <-> local trusted pc is clear, stored as encrypted partition same size as microSD, then rsync that partition to remote place Feb 24 19:17:49 You need x cm of insulation to withstand heat for y time. Feb 24 19:18:08 Same if that insulation is round a 30cm or 3cm cavity. Feb 24 19:18:24 how much insulation do you need Feb 24 19:18:28 physics is a long time back Feb 24 19:18:30 And you've got to have the thermal capacity to not melt while the heat percolates through. Feb 24 19:18:44 then again, if this is a keychain Feb 24 19:18:48 Look at how thick firesafes for magnetic media are, then double it. Feb 24 19:18:48 resistance need not be very high Feb 24 19:19:00 :P Feb 24 19:19:02 slightly higher than human capacity for enduring heat Feb 24 19:19:31 maybe you actually want the thing to melt Feb 24 19:19:31 In that case, just a metal case will work. The SD won't fail before 125C (for a while) Feb 24 19:19:33 that absorbs heat Feb 24 19:20:18 a thing i was thinking about for a while Feb 24 19:20:23 a microsd compartment in your watch Feb 24 19:20:27 i never take mine off Feb 24 19:20:54 (there are watches with integrated usb sticks but they are buttugly) Feb 24 19:21:13 To be nice, it'd need to be waterpoof. Feb 24 19:21:22 watches generally are waterproof Feb 24 19:21:31 now you simply need a sane way to open and close it Feb 24 19:21:32 the compartment Feb 24 19:21:50 i wonder if there would be a market for that Feb 24 19:22:33 have any of you managed to get openmoko working in xoo and will help me a bit? Feb 24 19:23:23 i've got it running in qemu... Feb 24 19:23:25 not in xoo Feb 24 19:23:46 LuitvD: do you have an image that actually works correctly? mine spat out weird graphics Feb 24 19:23:53 :P Feb 24 19:24:01 I've got jebba's Feb 24 19:24:11 maybe mine got corrupted somehoe Feb 24 19:24:12 jebba built it for qemuarm Feb 24 19:24:16 i have a problem..cannot find the image it made Feb 24 19:24:23 it = bitbake Feb 24 19:25:14 <_-InFeRnO-_> where is jebba's Feb 24 19:25:19 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'm interesred Feb 24 19:25:48 lol Feb 24 19:25:57 I'll go look for the images Feb 24 19:28:56 lol there is a milspec 1g usb stick Feb 24 19:29:04 looks like a bomb and cost 700USD Feb 24 19:29:23 must be fun at the airport Feb 24 19:29:55 <_-InFeRnO-_> yes Feb 24 19:29:57 <_-InFeRnO-_> very fun Feb 24 19:30:03 <_-InFeRnO-_> especially for the owner Feb 24 19:30:19 <_-InFeRnO-_> the moment where he's deported to police is just... hilarious Feb 24 19:30:26 * LuitvD is downstairs for some candy :) Feb 24 19:30:50 good idea, tho i think i'll substitue candy for beer Feb 24 19:32:31 hmmm...beer Feb 24 19:33:37 <_-InFeRnO-_> now if i can compile Xoo on FreeBSD, my life would be easier Feb 24 19:34:04 <_-InFeRnO-_> LuitvD where did you download the image? Feb 24 19:35:18 anyone here was at the fosdem talk about openmoko? Feb 24 19:35:31 ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/developers/jebba/openmoko/ Feb 24 19:35:40 the place was extremly crowded! Feb 24 19:36:05 toi, greentux, gw280 - according to logs Feb 24 19:36:11 :) Feb 24 19:36:26 in some ways, this is the last gadget that previously wasnt available with open source on it Feb 24 19:36:36 Cars. Feb 24 19:36:44 and vibrators Feb 24 19:36:48 ::grin:: Feb 24 19:36:53 i dont consider cars as gadgets Feb 24 19:37:06 and personally have no use for vibrators (i assume most geeks dont) Feb 24 19:37:12 <_-InFeRnO-_> no Feb 24 19:37:20 <_-InFeRnO-_> they use it for nuclear synthesis Feb 24 19:37:21 haha Feb 24 19:37:21 <_-InFeRnO-_> lol Feb 24 19:37:27 http://www.megasquirt.info/ DIY fuel injection :) Feb 24 19:37:37 wow Feb 24 19:38:07 i see cars as appliances Feb 24 19:39:00 <_-InFeRnO-_> i see cars as obsolete Feb 24 19:39:11 <_-InFeRnO-_> ;0 Feb 24 19:39:13 Me too - but when one goes wrong, I do _not_ want to see 'code 54' or something. Feb 24 19:39:33 I want to be able to wander over the logs with freely available tools to figure out what went wrong. Feb 24 19:39:38 Trust me, in Texas everyone has a car Feb 24 19:39:45 They are ubiquitous rather than obsolete. Feb 24 19:39:49 Much like phones. Feb 24 19:40:07 Eh, at least some people can use mass transit =P Feb 24 19:40:37 Nasty derailment in the UK - astonishing there were not more deaths. Feb 24 19:40:53 100MPH, off the tracks, and it diddn't fall over. Feb 24 19:41:22 Yikes Feb 24 19:41:34 <_-InFeRnO-_> i know Feb 24 19:41:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> it was a joke Feb 24 19:41:54 <_-InFeRnO-_> but nuclear engines with tritium fuel are cool Feb 24 19:42:07 * SpeedEvil waves his tritium keyring. Feb 24 19:42:13 <_-InFeRnO-_> a must have for a self-respecting geek Feb 24 19:42:28 <_-InFeRnO-_> in bulgaria trasers aren't sold ;( Feb 24 19:42:43 <_-InFeRnO-_> else i would repeatedly break them and take the tritium Feb 24 19:42:52 I'll hollow out some chocolate, and send you one :) Feb 24 19:43:00 <_-InFeRnO-_> (with it i will blow the world hahahahahahah) Feb 24 19:43:11 <_-InFeRnO-_> ha ha Feb 24 19:43:30 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'm trying to run OM on Qemu Feb 24 19:43:33 <_-InFeRnO-_> pray Feb 24 19:43:49 <_-InFeRnO-_> it will help Feb 24 19:47:20 <_-InFeRnO-_> noooo Feb 24 19:47:27 <_-InFeRnO-_> it wants me to touch some crosshairs Feb 24 19:47:34 <_-InFeRnO-_> and i can't see the mouse pointer Feb 24 19:47:36 <_-InFeRnO-_> damn Feb 24 19:48:35 openmoko: 03laforge * r1107 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates_svn.bb: fix svn repository path at svn.o-hand.com Feb 24 19:50:49 <_-InFeRnO-_> crap Feb 24 19:50:51 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'm stupid Feb 24 19:50:53 <_-InFeRnO-_> i did Ctrl+Alt+Backspace Feb 24 19:51:08 fell for that one myself Feb 24 19:51:29 <_-InFeRnO-_> but what is that touch the crosshairs Feb 24 19:51:35 <_-InFeRnO-_> how to pass it Feb 24 19:51:45 Use the force. Feb 24 19:52:00 <_-InFeRnO-_> give me a howto for the force Feb 24 19:52:07 <_-InFeRnO-_> i'm taught to rtfm Feb 24 19:52:42 <_-InFeRnO-_> no seriously i don't know how Feb 24 19:53:17 <_-InFeRnO-_> ne1 help Feb 24 19:54:10 <_-InFeRnO-_> plzzzzz Feb 24 19:54:33 <_-InFeRnO-_> g1v3 m3 73h infoooo PLZLZLZZZL Feb 24 19:54:51 <_-InFeRnO-_> i couldn't say it in any other dialect/language Feb 24 19:55:53 <_-InFeRnO-_> ne1? Feb 24 19:56:38 <_-InFeRnO-_> i guess the speed of text is too low Feb 24 19:57:49 <_-InFeRnO-_> crap Feb 24 19:57:53 Or nobody has a clue. Feb 24 19:58:04 Try guessing? Feb 24 19:58:37 <_-InFeRnO-_> let's use the Auto Clue Maker... Feb 24 19:58:41 <_-InFeRnO-_> *poof* Feb 24 19:58:46 <_-InFeRnO-_> nothing Feb 24 20:00:42 openmoko: 03werner * r1108 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: Feb 24 20:00:42 openmoko: Removed ram/nand distinction. (NOTE: this changes output file names !) Feb 24 20:00:42 openmoko: Added generation and deployment of lowlevel_foo. Feb 24 20:01:24 <_-InFeRnO-_> http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5062/ohnoxp9.png Feb 24 20:01:45 <_-InFeRnO-_> i told the bull not to excrete on my PC, but... Feb 24 20:03:25 <_-InFeRnO-_> anyone remembers this horror movie Feb 24 20:04:27 <_-InFeRnO-_> devs, where are you Feb 24 20:04:32 <_-InFeRnO-_> i don't spam alone Feb 24 20:04:37 <_-InFeRnO-_> ;0 Feb 24 20:05:55 <_-InFeRnO-_> bump Feb 24 20:06:24 "Touch the crosshairs to calibrate the screen" Feb 24 20:06:29 To get around this: Feb 24 20:06:29 1) ctrl-alt-3 Feb 24 20:06:29 2) `ps` to find the processes "/bin/sh /etc/X11/Xession.d/30xTs_Calibrate" & Feb 24 20:06:29 "/usr/libexec/xtscal.bin" and kill them. Feb 24 20:06:29 3) mv /etc/X11/Xession.d/30xTs_Calibrate ~/ Feb 24 20:06:29 4) ctrl-alt-1 to get back to GUI Feb 24 20:06:37 RTFM indeed Feb 24 20:07:31 mh how about someone uploads an image wherethis is done ;) Feb 24 20:10:29 <_-InFeRnO-_> crap, my mouse still doesn't work Feb 24 20:51:12 damn this build takes ages :) Feb 24 20:52:25 DesktopMa: did it crash? Feb 24 20:52:36 it errored once Feb 24 20:52:44 just ran it again and it continued Feb 24 20:54:15 Mine got to do_deploy where it crashed, Feb 24 20:56:18 can't find uboot-mkimage Feb 24 21:07:25 buz, i do have images uploaded where that is done. I've decided to upload "unmodifed" openmoko images to the openmoko dir and my own modified ones here: ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/developers/jebba/iBLAG Feb 24 21:12:39 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r13 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/series: Removed the openmoko-dates patch, as upstream has fixed it. Feb 24 21:22:36 jebba: thanks, i'll give those a shot Feb 24 21:32:12 still building :D Feb 24 22:33:39 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r14 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (linux-gta01.patch series): Added patch to the full executable path for uboot-mkimage. Feb 24 23:32:03 openmoko: 03laforge * r1109 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: Feb 24 23:32:03 openmoko: * Atomic download of u-boot image now working Feb 24 23:32:03 openmoko: * Non-Atomic download of all other partitions now working Feb 24 23:32:03 openmoko: * Final USB reset after MAINFEST state switches back into usbtty mode Feb 24 23:32:03 openmoko: * Known bugs: Feb 24 23:32:03 openmoko: ** no transfer size % 8 Feb 24 23:32:07 openmoko: ** second download fails after a previous download Feb 25 00:07:43 openmoko: 03laforge * r1110 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: fix --help printout Feb 25 00:07:56 openmoko: 03laforge * r1111 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/sam7dfu.c: add 'Done' message at the end of a transfer Feb 25 00:07:59 lol Feb 25 00:08:02 what a patch :P Feb 25 00:08:16 hi *, Feb 25 00:08:16 does that really need a new revision number? :P Feb 25 00:08:19 how do i tell bitbake make uImage instead of zImage in kernel package ? Feb 25 00:08:28 I have no idea... Feb 25 00:08:35 ask one of the devvers ;) Feb 25 00:08:57 LaF0rge: you just had to have revision 1111 didn't you? :P Feb 25 00:12:08 LuitvD: numbers are cheap. Feb 25 00:12:08 LuitvD: actually he is aiming for 1337 today =) Feb 25 00:12:27 heheh Feb 25 00:12:34 yeah, I'd want that one too... Feb 25 00:12:50 226 revisions to go then :) Feb 25 00:19:57 rwhitby: now how do I get the right mokomakefile + sources? Feb 25 00:20:01 :P Feb 25 00:20:42 LuitvD: follow the mokomakefile web page instructions Feb 25 00:20:49 where... Feb 25 00:20:56 rwhitby: can't find any content Feb 25 00:21:16 LuitvD: where have you searched? Feb 25 00:21:18 no mokomakefile in the "Files" page of GForge Feb 25 00:21:35 try wiki.openmoko.org Feb 25 00:21:37 haven't found any info on the projects.openmoko.org Feb 25 00:21:41 rwhitby: okay :) Feb 25 00:21:45 how obvious :P Feb 25 00:23:05 * LuitvD is deleting the many many files once again... Feb 25 00:24:26 rwhitby: "This page has been accessed 1,377 times." Feb 25 00:24:26 :D Feb 25 00:26:47 LuitvD: 1378! Feb 25 00:27:29 aevin: lol, let's just keep it at "nearly 1500" ;) Feb 25 00:28:00 rwhitby: do you know how u-boot works in general? Feb 25 00:28:22 rwhitby: simply explained? is it somewhat like what grub does? or is it way more complicated? Feb 25 00:30:07 LuitvD: what do you need to know over and above what Google can tell you? Feb 25 00:30:32 ~google u-boot Feb 25 00:30:36 rwhitby: i can't find much simple 'user experiences' of das u-boot project... Feb 25 00:30:54 rwhitby: can the bootloader process be easily interrupted? Feb 25 00:31:05 (that's the only thing I really want to know for now) Feb 25 00:33:08 rwhitby: I want to know if I can interrupt the e2881's boot procedure if it's using u-boot, so I want to know how it works for the Neo... Feb 25 00:33:19 or don't you know how it works? Feb 25 00:33:37 LuitvD: I expect u-boot is heavily modified for each device it is used on. It is for the Neo, for instance. Feb 25 00:33:58 hmm Feb 25 00:34:13 so that's why I can't find that much info I can use... Feb 25 00:34:34 hope I won't have to modify the e2881 too much to boot off micro-SD Feb 25 00:35:21 but does the Neo build of u-boot need a JTAG or serial connection to interrupt the boot sequence? Feb 25 00:35:37 (dev-board, USB, ...) Feb 25 00:35:42 LuitvD: when I have a device in my hands, I'll be able to tell you. Feb 25 00:35:48 ah... Feb 25 00:35:58 until then, you can read the source code as well as I can ... Feb 25 00:35:59 okayu Feb 25 00:36:14 rwhitby: you can read it... i can only look at it :P Feb 25 00:36:54 LuitvD: if you can't read the source code, then your project to boot the e2881 from SD is going to be a big learning curve ... Feb 25 00:37:07 hehehe Feb 25 00:37:21 rwhitby: not sure if I can't read the current source code... Feb 25 00:37:23 i mean... Feb 25 00:38:07 I can see structure in programs, but my C isn't what it's supposed to be :) Feb 25 00:38:22 need some time to dig it up again Feb 25 00:38:59 and I'll first have to see how u-boot works (in general) to see how I can interrupt it or do anything similar... Feb 25 00:39:05 well, that's the place to start if you want to sucessfully hack the e2881. Feb 25 00:39:28 rwhitby: already working on that :) programming a robot since last week Feb 25 00:39:49 (in C for the SDCC compiler, for a PIC16 device) Feb 25 00:40:20 (that's even worse, because of the PIC's structure, and limited but complicated instruction set) Feb 25 00:41:14 I bet the ARM core's instruction set is broad enough for a programming language like C... but the PIC actually shouldn't be programmed with anything higher then ASM :P Feb 25 00:41:50 (although Microchip tells me the PIC16 chip's instruction set is optimized for C) Feb 25 00:42:47 (optimized, my ass... the compilers do need very complicated tricks to get it running well enough) Feb 25 00:43:48 (a C compiler on some 60 instructions ... I wonder what the ARM core can do...) Feb 25 00:48:39 LuitvD: have you read the OM wiki pages about the bootloader (U-boot) ? Feb 25 00:49:32 aevin: a bit... will read it more as soon as I know more about u-boot Feb 25 00:49:41 (looking at the manual pages now) Feb 25 00:50:24 e.g. NAND_bad_blocks may be interesting for a simple overview of how it works. Feb 25 00:51:02 s3c2410_boot_usb is interesting too :) Feb 25 00:51:05 ah, if you're reading the U-boot manual, i guess you'll be digging deeper than the OM wiki. Feb 25 00:51:27 aevin: not really... Feb 25 00:51:37 I'm reading the "how to use" pages first Feb 25 00:51:44 then the "how to modify" pages ;) Feb 25 00:52:38 i really should be sleeping now... Feb 25 00:53:36 * LuitvD is noge Feb 25 00:53:39 gone Feb 25 02:40:25 hey hey, freedom for the win :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 25 02:59:58 2007