**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 05 02:59:57 2007 Mar 05 03:37:27 Anyone know if it'll be possible to use the phone to record conversations? Mar 05 03:46:28 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1244 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-footer/src/ (callbacks.c footer.h main.c): use DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM bus connection instead of DBUS_BUS_SESSION Mar 05 03:47:26 is it really only about a month till phase 1? Mar 05 03:47:28 dang! Mar 05 03:50:13 what is the number of developer units that will be made? Mar 05 03:50:23 I hope I can get a few. Mar 05 03:50:47 jipi: i think those have already been assigned Mar 05 03:51:10 LoDown: if that is the case, can we request now? Mar 05 03:51:25 jipi: unknown...you best bet is Phase 1 Mar 05 03:53:24 LoDown: Phase 1 is end March? if it is then it's ok. But if it's September then it's a long wait. Mar 05 03:53:32 counter Mar 05 03:53:33 P0: 16:03:13 (0.669 +-0.7 days); P1: 32.338 +-10.0 (see faq) (466) Mar 05 03:53:40 counter Mar 05 03:53:41 P0: 16:03:09 (0.669 +-0.7 days); P1: 32.338 +-10.0 (see faq) (467) Mar 05 03:53:54 looks like 32 days puls minus 10 Mar 05 03:54:16 LoDown: i get it now. thanks. Mar 05 03:55:11 LoDown: another question, how do we get it? shipping charges? online? what type of payment methods etc.? Mar 05 03:55:31 jipi: i don't think that has been announced... Mar 05 03:55:40 i'm sure more info will be put out closer to ship date Mar 05 03:56:14 most likely it will be online from FIC's website Mar 05 03:56:35 LoDown: ok. I just hope I don't miss it. (e.g. out of stock or sosmething..) Mar 05 03:56:48 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1245 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (callbacks.c dbus-conn.c mainmenu.c mainmenu.h mokoiconview.h): Use DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM bus connection instead of DBUS_BUS_SESSION Mar 05 03:56:50 Thanks for the valuable info. Mar 05 03:56:54 paulproteus: why couldn't you do it? Mar 05 03:57:00 ::grin:: just keep up with the Wiki Mar 05 03:57:06 jipi: no problem Mar 05 03:57:07 paulproteus: you just need to write the software for it Mar 05 03:59:56 It would be really cool if all conversations were auto-saved to ram, and at the end you have the option of storing the previous conversation to flash. Mar 05 04:22:45 Sargun: it does give it if you say just "faq?" ;-) Mar 05 04:22:57 faq Mar 05 04:22:58 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Mar 05 04:23:02 wowowow! Mar 05 04:23:12 haha Mar 05 04:36:45 cool: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Mar 05 05:22:03 counter Mar 05 05:22:03 P0: 15:18:58 (0.638 +-0.6 days); P1: 32.276 +-10.0 (see faq) (468) Mar 05 05:22:50 counter Mar 05 05:22:50 P0: 15:18:35 (0.638 +-0.6 days); P1: 32.276 +-10.0 (see faq) (469) Mar 05 05:22:51 strike! Mar 05 05:22:53 lol Mar 05 05:23:59 'lo Mar 05 07:00:51 "The topmost patch u-boot-20061030-qt2410-gta01.patch needs to be refreshed first." reported when openmoko building Mar 05 07:05:41 i manually applied the patch, but how to continue? Mar 05 07:07:51 Readon: are you using the MokoMakefile? Mar 05 07:08:29 rwhitby, yes Mar 05 07:08:54 i followed the instruction on openmoko website Mar 05 07:09:16 patching file board/qt2410/u-boot.lds Mar 05 07:09:17 patching file common/Makefile Mar 05 07:09:17 Hunk #1 FAILED at 28. Mar 05 07:09:17 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file common/Makefile.rej Mar 05 07:09:20 uboot built fine for me this morning. I'll try it again now Mar 05 07:10:04 NOTE: Applying patch 'u-boot-20061030-qt2410-gta01.patch' Mar 05 07:10:05 Command Error: exit status: 1 Output: Mar 05 07:10:05 Applying patch u-boot-20061030-qt2410-gta01.patch Mar 05 07:10:05 patching file Makefile Mar 05 07:10:05 Hunk #1 succeeded at 1934 (offset 21 lines). Mar 05 07:10:25 two errors were returned Mar 05 07:10:48 Readon: best to pastebin a full log, rather than pasting bits of it into the channel ... Mar 05 07:11:05 NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svn20070302-r2: task do_patch: completed Mar 05 07:11:10 no problems patching here. Mar 05 07:12:30 http://rafb.net/p/an8IsM62.html Mar 05 07:13:31 uboot-gta01-0.0+cvs20061030 tells me you're not using latest MokoMakefile Mar 05 07:14:23 Readon: can you pastebin from the start, i.e. when you type "make" or "bitbake" ? Mar 05 07:15:18 (including where you type "make update" to make sure you had the latest patches) Mar 05 07:16:07 it's the first time i make it Mar 05 07:16:47 ok, pastebin from "make setup" onwards then Mar 05 07:16:51 i use bitbake openmoko-dev Mar 05 07:16:58 i use bitbake openmoko-dev-image Mar 05 07:17:09 are you using MokoMakefile or not? Mar 05 07:17:21 i did not use "make setup" Mar 05 07:17:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Mar 05 07:17:33 sep 4 is make setup Mar 05 07:17:35 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 Mar 05 07:17:36 s/sep/step/ Mar 05 07:17:37 rwhitby meant: step 4 is make setup Mar 05 07:17:44 i made this Mar 05 07:17:49 Readon: try the other then. Mar 05 07:17:56 followed this Mar 05 07:18:37 rwhitby: Maybe add some more make targets to that wiki page? I mean update and makefile-update and so? Mar 05 07:18:47 CM: please do so :-) Mar 05 07:18:48 I can do it, but I'm not sure exactly what to do when Mar 05 07:18:59 Readon: why did you follow that page? Mar 05 07:19:03 Ok, I'll add then ask if it's ok :) Mar 05 07:19:58 CM: much better - I find it easier to fine tune other's documentation contributions that to find the time to do it myself :-) Mar 05 07:20:29 NP, I had thought about adding this last friday, but got stuck at some "after work" ;) Mar 05 07:21:42 i think it is official stuff for building Mar 05 07:23:08 Readon: the page you referenced is official, but out of date and does not build. I would recommend using the MokoMakefile, which still builds the official way, but works too. Mar 05 07:23:37 anyone have ideas that how to continue when i modified patches manually? Mar 05 07:23:42 (but I'm biased, cause I wrote it) Mar 05 07:23:54 did you use quilt? Mar 05 07:24:04 rwhitby, my network is very poor i can't restart it. Mar 05 07:24:30 Readon: sorry, I can't help you then, and I expect that no-one else here is building that old way either. Mar 05 07:24:33 yes, it asked for it Mar 05 07:25:32 why not remove the link from the mainpage? Mar 05 07:25:57 the one that is after the MokoMakefile link? Mar 05 07:26:22 yes, Mar 05 07:26:53 well that link was put there by a core developer, so I prefer to let them decide whether to remove it or not. Mar 05 07:26:59 it cost me 2 days, and i don't want to restart it Mar 05 07:27:22 you can reuse the OE.mtn file, and the svn checkout (you'll need to svn update that to the latest version) and your sources directory. Mar 05 07:27:50 read the MokoMakefile, put those things in the right places, and you should have a much smaller network download. Mar 05 07:28:17 do you mean that i can continue and only remove build dir? Mar 05 07:28:19 (and you can report in the bugzilla that the link you followed doesn't work, and ask the core developers to remove the link) Mar 05 07:29:39 ok Mar 05 07:29:43 Readon: yes, if you get everything in the right place for the MokoMakefile (I think it should all be in the right place anyway if you have followed the manual instructions) Mar 05 07:30:42 Readon: perhaps (if the MokoMakefile works better for you) add a note to the page which doesn't work, advising others that it didn't work for you but the MokoMakefile did ... Mar 05 07:32:59 rwhitby: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Mar 05 07:33:35 i will try it first Mar 05 07:34:24 rwhitby: It's now recommended by 3 out of 3 new devs ;) Mar 05 07:40:10 the same errors reported. Mar 05 07:45:59 CM: thx Mar 05 07:55:01 4GB is open question: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93 Mar 05 07:59:32 (CM - the change was to run update-makefile first, in case the "update" target has changed, in which case you want it to run the latest one. Mar 05 07:59:56 Readon: I doubt that you got the same errors using the MokoMakefile. Mar 05 08:00:16 please pastebin the full log to show if that is the case, including where you run "make update" Mar 05 08:02:39 make update Mar 05 08:02:40 ( cd bitbake ; svn update ) Mar 05 08:02:40 At revision 786. Mar 05 08:02:40 ( cd patches ; svn update ) Mar 05 08:02:40 svn: '.' is not a working copy Mar 05 08:02:40 make: *** [update-patches] Error 1 Mar 05 08:03:32 Readon: you will need to move away the patches dir, so the MokoMakefile can get the latest from svn Mar 05 08:03:55 (BTW, that wasn't "the same errors" reported) Mar 05 08:04:34 rwhitby: I noticed that, thanks. :) Mar 05 08:05:03 i will rebuild it totally Mar 05 08:14:01 * CM watches http://video.google.it/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 (How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People) Mar 05 08:22:04 * rwhitby bookmarks that video Mar 05 08:39:33 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1246 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/mokoiconview.c: change item activated function: item, which has been selected, will be activated Mar 05 09:04:17 * rwhitby looks at adding devirginator build support to mokomakefile ... Mar 05 09:08:05 maybe even add an OE recipe for it ... Mar 05 09:11:52 * aloril guesses P0 has not yet shipped? (at least nobody has gotten mail with info about that having happened?) Mar 05 09:12:03 * koen checks mail Mar 05 09:12:05 e Mar 05 09:12:08 nope Mar 05 09:13:15 they have five hours left in my day to ship it on the 5th :-) Mar 05 09:13:53 I hope it arrives before friday 08:26 Mar 05 09:14:42 counter Mar 05 09:14:43 P0: 13:22:38 (0.557 +-0.6 days); P1: 32.115 +-10.0 (see faq) (470) Mar 05 09:15:27 I just need mine by the 19th, cause I have a local linux user group talk scheduled for then Mar 05 09:16:11 hmm.. its 18:16 at Taiwan now I think? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 05 09:21:25 2007 Mar 05 09:46:53 morning Mar 05 09:47:03 * hrw want it before next tuesday Mar 05 09:49:47 heh heh, its like a nest of ants in here, that people keep poking a stick in Mar 05 09:53:38 * aloril wonder how many reviewers are going to review P1 developer phone like it was P2 mass release phone and don't realize they got development phone 5-6 month early before actual release ;-) Mar 05 09:57:21 aloril: 7 Mar 05 09:57:27 It should come in a locked box that they have to call in, and get someone to explain in detail the features of the phone as it now and will be, before they get the combination. Mar 05 09:57:51 koen: 42 Mar 05 09:58:53 * aloril thinks (pre)order page in minimum should contain text from FAQ ;-) Mar 05 09:59:21 aloril: maybe openmoko should go the trolltech way Mar 05 09:59:35 display a "this is not a phone, but a development device" at every boot Mar 05 10:00:40 it could help. Mar 05 10:02:24 you mean reviewers read output? Mar 05 10:02:25 i doubt it Mar 05 10:02:25 koen: and get you to hit the "select" key? Mar 05 10:03:04 i guess as aloril said, there's a potential that people will think the P1 phone reviews are relevant for the P2 september edition and hence be not interested. Mar 05 10:05:02 openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1247 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Mar 05 10:05:02 openmoko: Add realsize mode. At this mode, the sizes and locations of each keys Mar 05 10:05:02 openmoko: are geting from the config file. Mar 05 10:05:30 at least if both phones will be named Neo1973, but with different revisions. articles (and hence people) tend to ignore revisions and other small print details to stupidify the content adequately. Mar 05 10:05:58 I've been doing 'login and comment' on all the misinformed articles I find. Mar 05 10:06:01 we'll see. Mar 05 10:06:09 How many people actually read the comments though... Mar 05 10:06:20 detect when "clueless reviewer" is ordering P1 phone and supply alternate case with big "development version" text prominently in case ;-) Mar 05 10:06:34 SpeedEvil: have you found many of such articles? Mar 05 10:06:45 There are assorted ones. Mar 05 10:07:08 $250 for release phone, RAM expandable to 4096M, ... Mar 05 10:07:12 aloril: perhaps FIC could supply some huge sticker on the box for every P1 shipment. Mar 05 10:07:34 lol. 4 GiB RAM sounds nice! Mar 05 10:07:43 aevin: yeah, got same idea... maybe even put it to case directly as long as you can remove it easily without trace Mar 05 10:08:25 that way "clueless reviewer might leave it on" even and reader can see from pictures it ;-) Mar 05 10:08:54 true. Mar 05 10:09:31 /yeah. Mar 05 10:09:37 A slide show whenever you turn on a P1 phone - 'This is not a device for end users' 'It is a development platform that sort-of-works as a basic phone'... Mar 05 10:09:56 yeah splash with handwritten THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT DEVICE Mar 05 10:10:04 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r40 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (dfu-util-native.patch series): Removed dfu-util patch, as it was incorrect. Mar 05 10:10:15 IF YOU REVIEW IT AS FINAL PHONE, GOD WILL KILL A KITTEN Mar 05 10:11:06 or perhaps rename the P1 phone to something like "Neo1973 preview edition" or something to avoid using the same name as the final (assuming Neo1973 is the final marketing name, which i don't have any reason not to think it will be) Mar 05 10:12:04 buz: yes :) Mar 05 10:16:58 Why not call it Neo1876 - "Mr. Watson, come here, I want to see you." ;) Mar 05 10:19:31 morning :-) Mar 05 10:20:32 hi Mac Mar 05 10:20:40 well, all the phase0 devs have the opportunity to implement such a reviewer chastity belt ... Mar 05 10:20:50 hmm.. even treating it as beta version would be wrong, its long time before software will be in beta Mar 05 10:21:34 Hmm - speaking tubes hit in 1800 or so. Mar 05 10:21:40 so the phase0 phones are shipped ? Mar 05 10:21:52 perhaps. Mar 05 10:21:57 TRIsoft: not according to my mailbox Mar 05 10:21:57 No reports thought. Mar 05 10:22:18 Just read the planet entry from Harald... Mar 05 10:22:27 I suppose a semaphore is a clear ancestor to SMS. Mar 05 10:25:37 I wonder where you'd find a credible history of drums as communication. Mar 05 10:25:55 inthe jungle, the mighty jungle Mar 05 10:26:22 koen: do you have dfu-util-native packaged in OE ? Mar 05 10:28:08 rwhitby: not that I know off Mar 05 10:28:12 morning Mar 05 10:28:20 rwhitby: don't have hardware to test on Mar 05 10:28:46 ok, the openmoko dfu-util-native recipe is broken. see http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=226 Mar 05 10:29:09 I need to work out how to force a static build as LaF0rge describes. Mar 05 10:29:26 (as the current recipe doesn't do it, and I want to have devirginator packaged before the device arrives) Mar 05 10:29:54 (devirginator depends on openocd and dfu-util-native) Mar 05 10:30:11 rwhitby: and my OE buildbox is in a lab and my preferred 'flashing' device runs osx, so even with the neo, I couldn't test it Mar 05 10:31:51 rwhitby: feel free to add it all to OE Mar 05 10:43:14 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r41 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (dfu-util-native.patch series): Added a new dfu-util patch, which correctly builds dfu-util staticly linked. Thanks to zecke for the tip. Mar 05 10:44:37 rwhitby: :) Mar 05 10:44:41 and of course we don't add it to OE to make koen's merging job harder...... Mar 05 10:44:50 sure Mar 05 10:45:16 koen: nice attitude. keep it to yourself please. Mar 05 10:51:32 dfu-utils patch reported upstream at http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=226 Mar 05 10:51:54 (upstream == openmoko core devs in this instance) Mar 05 10:53:19 Looks like openocd will need the same treatment, looking at the files that devirginator downloaded from http://buildhost-old.openmoko.org/snapshots/gta01-20070301/tmp/deploy/images/ Mar 05 10:58:48 ETel report (2 images): http://www.uberpulse.com/us/2007/03/fic_wants_to_rewrite_the_rules_with_open_moko_mobile_phone.php Mar 05 11:05:31 I'm fascinated by that name... wonder who thought it up Mar 05 11:26:43 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r42 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (openocd.patch series): Patch to fix building of openocd-native, and to deploy the native build instead of the cross build (cause devirginator needs the native build). Mar 05 11:30:15 reported as http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235 Mar 05 11:37:52 cjb: ping - what other tools have you needed to use in your first few days with the device? Mar 05 11:38:52 'devirginator' - why isn't is called 'deflowerer' then? Mar 05 11:38:52 wildfire: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 05 11:40:29 newbee question here: will it be possible with phase 1 devices to read the GPSA data via a say an NMEA protocol? or what kinda of protocol will the openmoko will be using? Mar 05 11:40:29 dspstv: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 05 11:45:58 briefly - yes. Mar 05 11:48:26 seems that no page contains term NMEA at wiki.openmoko.org (or I'm doing something wrong with search) Mar 05 11:50:01 The phone will have a plugin for the hardware, for the open-source gpsd Mar 05 11:50:07 so, to clear it, the gpsa will be working in phase 1 and developer will have access to read the data via protocols like NMEA Mar 05 11:50:19 ok Mar 05 11:50:47 http://gpsd.berlios.de/xgps.html Mar 05 11:50:48 hmm.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko#GPS indirectly tells it Mar 05 11:50:59 cool, now i need to find out where to put place my order, and that not to visible in the wiki Mar 05 11:51:11 dspstv: no place yet Mar 05 11:51:14 Yes, it'll be working in phase 1. Mar 05 11:51:32 The 'Buying Interest List' is _not_ official. Mar 05 11:51:45 i understand that Mar 05 11:52:15 Maybe a _little_ hype in that last news article - 'This phone is like God in your pocket, it follows you everywhere. ' Mar 05 11:53:07 I wonder if it's a jealous god? Mar 05 11:54:24 * aloril assumes this would be correct edit: s/It will export the standard gpsd interface./It will export the standard gpsd interface using NMEA./ Mar 05 11:55:20 No. Mar 05 11:55:29 GPSd supports many output methods. Mar 05 11:56:05 SpeedEvil: OK, maybe it should still be mentioned here one way? http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=OpenMoko&action=edit§ion=23 Mar 05 11:59:54 I'll read up on gpsd, and add the details. Mar 05 12:02:56 * aloril adds link to [[OpenMoko]] from [[FAQ]] (twice ;-) Mar 05 12:04:04 hmm.. [[Hardware:AGPS]] is related page for [[OpenMoko#GPS]] too, but not same thing: former is about specific hardware while later is about software Mar 05 12:09:54 * SpeedEvil searches for all mention of GPS, and sees if it's right. Mar 05 12:11:00 They are right. Mar 05 12:11:59 blog about delay: http://blog.matthewgast.com/2007/03/03/good-luck-openmoko/ Mar 05 12:12:11 (nothing new there) Mar 05 12:14:44 Hello Folks Mar 05 12:15:15 hi derka Mar 05 12:15:21 Most of the stuff seems still to refer to agpsd - which is wrong. Mar 05 12:15:26 Welcome! Mar 05 12:15:38 Thanks folks Mar 05 12:15:41 i got a dumb question :) Mar 05 12:16:03 Shoot. Mar 05 12:16:04 who hasn't :) Mar 05 12:16:10 we collect them ;) Mar 05 12:16:13 will openmoko neo1973 provide wifi ? Mar 05 12:16:13 When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Mar 05 12:16:40 aloril, it should prefix with nick Mar 05 12:16:41 :) Mar 05 12:17:29 aloril: I wonder if you could send these lengthy messages in /msg? Mar 05 12:18:15 CoreDump|afk: or I could just leave link to faq Mar 05 12:19:06 right Mar 05 12:21:21 toobad for wifi :-( Mar 05 12:23:31 derka: v2 next year most likely will include wifi and P1+ this summer *might* have wifi (they will try to get wifi to it, but no guarantee of success) Mar 05 12:25:32 ok Mar 05 12:25:42 who are you aloril Mar 05 12:29:02 CoreDump|afk: if aloril sends them as /msg, then the channel won't know if question has been answered (if the script triggered or not). Mar 05 12:29:05 derka: no official relation, just lurker developer Mar 05 12:30:34 is it possbile to buy a dev version in june or juli? or will dev version sales stop some time after sell start? Mar 05 12:30:50 Dev sales continue Mar 05 12:30:58 k Mar 05 12:30:58 the devices may change as dev goes on Mar 05 12:31:19 software continues being developed till and through masss market release in Sep. Mar 05 12:39:05 mornin Mar 05 12:42:11 hi noidd Mar 05 12:43:15 hows it going man? Mar 05 12:43:47 Is the wiki very slow? Mar 05 12:44:56 lemme lookie here Mar 05 12:45:11 fast here Mar 05 12:48:10 Odd. Mar 05 12:48:28 Occasionally horribly slow. Mar 05 12:48:49 It was on day 1 for me but I'll forgive that :-) Mar 05 12:49:07 I'm just excited about the whole project Mar 05 12:49:15 and patiently waiting for the fixes Mar 05 12:49:17 SpeedEvil: good comment at http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/03/openmoko-details-pricing-availability-for-neo1973/ Mar 05 12:49:56 Was that the double post? Mar 05 12:50:10 Silly system posted it, then emailed me saying I had to confirm. Mar 05 12:50:14 yeah, its double here too Mar 05 12:50:22 I confirmed, and it posted it again. Mar 05 12:50:28 hehe Mar 05 12:51:41 btw, did you see that microsoft have patented two-tone colouring on mobile electronic devices Mar 05 12:51:45 I shit you not. Mar 05 12:53:12 ... Mar 05 12:53:25 * SpeedEvil kills all patent examiners. Mar 05 12:53:31 noidd: Source ? Mar 05 12:53:36 sec Mar 05 12:53:58 I'll find it for you now, one sec Mar 05 12:54:16 noidd: Thanks.... one more thing to investigate :-( Mar 05 12:54:35 http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/04/zune-watch-out-apple-patented-doubleshot/ Mar 05 12:54:41 it may not be the same thing Mar 05 12:54:47 but it may be, I don't know Mar 05 12:54:56 it rang alarmbells in my head when I read the summary Mar 05 12:55:26 SpeedEvil: your errata are almost bigger as the original post :) Mar 05 12:55:43 noidd: Hmmm. Unbelieveable. Mar 05 13:00:45 <_buz> these moko means snot in spanish posts are kinda superflous Mar 05 13:01:01 and redundant Mar 05 13:01:02 <_buz> the spanish are used to weird product names, just think of the pajero SUV Mar 05 13:07:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS#Q:_Is_an_open-source_GPS_daemon_able_to_be_distributed_by_FIC.3F wow, what a bunch of silly problems we'll have to solve, all thanks to the U.S. of A. Mar 05 13:10:15 aevin: :( Mar 05 13:10:23 It's not actually a horrible problem. Mar 05 13:10:43 All it means is that FIC may not be able to distribute a fully open source GPS daemon. Mar 05 13:10:53 (depending on legal advice). Mar 05 13:11:02 It does not mean that users can't install one. Mar 05 13:14:50 * xkr47 just hopes the binary gps daemon has a good support team that fixes bugs promptly Mar 05 13:20:17 here are questions I'm looking answer to once P0 arrives (I'm not one of recipients): microSD speed (depends on card though, but there do exists reasonably fast 1GB cards (SanDisk ultra II for example)) Mar 05 13:20:36 SpeedEvil: i know, but it's sad if it's gonna be like most GNU/Linux distros and patentable media codecs, only a hassle for the new inexperienced users. Mar 05 13:21:01 2) touch screen feel/etc.. (raw dump of it would be nice... but probably not likely) Mar 05 13:21:19 3) closeup of screen Mar 05 13:21:29 Why? It's a screen? Mar 05 13:21:47 It's a touchscreen. They are all pretty much alike, apart from DPI andbrightness. Mar 05 13:23:24 SpeedEvil: I meant raw dump of from s3c2410-ts device Mar 05 13:23:32 Ah. Mar 05 13:23:39 as you move finger, stylus, etc.. Mar 05 13:23:54 You mean noise, ... 'in practice' ? Mar 05 13:23:58 * aloril guesses you really need device to get feeling Mar 05 13:24:00 aloril: you better write a wish list to the P0 devs. Mar 05 13:24:05 yes, noice, etc.. Mar 05 13:24:43 closeup of screen: no real reason, just one more image of it ;-) Mar 05 13:24:49 Ah. Mar 05 13:25:08 how many dpi was it ? Mar 05 13:25:11 curious to see actual pixels compared to traditional big LCD's ;-) Mar 05 13:25:19 280dpi vs normal 90-100dpi Mar 05 13:25:28 aloril: neo screen is nice Mar 05 13:25:32 They look ... Smaller! Mar 05 13:25:37 ah, sounds great. Mar 05 13:25:55 high definition mobile phone :) Mar 05 13:25:58 hrw: I believe that, just want to see image of letter a in both neo screen and normal screen and paper compared Mar 05 13:26:12 * xkr47 has 112dpi 19" crt :) Mar 05 13:26:29 (a letter being physically same size in all mediums) Mar 05 13:26:30 my 20" lcd has 98 dpi Mar 05 13:26:37 xdpyinfo | grep dots Mar 05 13:27:29 hrw: it's exactly 100dpi, surely? Mar 05 13:27:40 hrw: 20" is 16" wide and 12" tall, and they're 1600x1200 Mar 05 13:27:40 why would it be :) Mar 05 13:28:02 gw280: 1680x1050 20" Mar 05 13:28:08 hrw: ah Mar 05 13:28:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T221 Mar 05 13:28:20 hmm.. could compare microSD speed on card reader vs neo Mar 05 13:28:21 14:09 hrw@home:git$ xdpyinfo | grep dots resolution: 98x98 dots per inch Mar 05 13:28:42 aloril: neo: slower, good card reader: faster Mar 05 13:28:49 hrw: perfect for gnome then Mar 05 13:28:52 aloril: enough compare? Mar 05 13:29:01 XorA: why gnome? Mar 05 13:29:06 hmm. my 15" screen has 133.3dpi, but X thinks it is 96dpi... Mar 05 13:29:07 anyway, about that sd speed: no sense to buy more expensive ultra II cards if it can't do that speed, if it can, then there is dilemma: get fast 1 GB or slower 2 GB ;-) Mar 05 13:29:12 96dpi is gnome default? Mar 05 13:29:14 hrw: gtk+ has many hardcodings to 96 dpi Mar 05 13:29:18 on my 12" (1024x768) thinkpad: resolution: 104x108 dots per inch Mar 05 13:29:29 XorA: you know what I think about gtk ;D Mar 05 13:29:29 hrw: read/write speeds would be nice.. Mar 05 13:29:32 hrw: yeah, but how much slower? Mar 05 13:29:43 hrw: you worship the ground it deploys on :-) Mar 05 13:29:56 aloril: depends how good reader/card will be used Mar 05 13:30:11 wiki says "Smallest Visible Pixel Size for a Hand Held Device" is ~350dpi Mar 05 13:30:36 do you know what brand of the SD card that will be bundled? Mar 05 13:30:39 aloril: on the hi-speed cards the faster read/write speed is noticable even if you cant make full use of it Mar 05 13:31:04 * XorA needs a 4Gb 160x card Mar 05 13:31:52 hmm.. so maybe question is better phrased like "What is speed with various micro SD cards?" Mar 05 13:33:00 neither of my microSD cards have speed listed Mar 05 13:34:50 you're lucky to max usb1(.1) to em Mar 05 13:36:31 XorA: yeah usually only fast cards list speed, thus testing with reasonable card reader could indicate speed to some degree Mar 05 14:02:50 openmoko: 03thomas * r1248 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c): Mar 05 14:02:50 openmoko: 2007-03-05 Thomas Wood Mar 05 14:02:50 openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (field_button_add_cb), Mar 05 14:02:50 openmoko: (make_widget), (update_ui): Keep a reference to the GtkSizeGroup for Mar 05 14:02:50 openmoko: adding later fields with Mar 05 14:15:21 counter Mar 05 14:15:22 P0: 10:52:19 (0.453 +-0.5 days); P1: 31.906 +-10.0 (see faq) (471) Mar 05 14:15:30 a half day... ok :) Mar 05 14:28:19 Or 1 hour ago. Mar 05 14:30:49 SpeedEvil: :) Mar 05 14:31:33 end of today in theory for P0.5 Mar 05 14:35:15 P0.5 makes no sense. scrap that. Mar 05 15:01:46 OM mentioned briefly, old picture: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/03/eight_great_lin.html Mar 05 15:02:00 Neo1973 mentioned I should say.. Mar 05 15:24:44 rwhitby, openmoko-dates.patch fails Mar 05 15:33:33 dspstv: yes, you can get NMEA data out of gpsd. The simple way is apparently 'gpspipe -r' which outputs NMEA sentances. Mar 05 15:33:48 (added to wiki too) Mar 05 15:34:14 * paulproteus reads http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm Mar 05 15:36:46 The right way isn't to use that though, it's to use the libgpsd functions in your program directly. Usually easier. Mar 05 15:37:46 Damn, I gotta go - hot water heater blown so gotten deal with flooding Mar 05 15:37:47 later Mar 05 15:38:03 Wave(s). Mar 05 15:42:16 yay! Mar 05 15:42:22 p0 devices are shipping Mar 05 15:42:28 :) Mar 05 15:42:52 Maart 05, 2007 21:51 Taipei - Taiwan Vertrokken van DHL vestiging in Taipei - Taiwan Mar 05 15:43:03 * SpeedEvil wishes for a slip-of-the-hand on an address label. Mar 05 15:43:52 !! Mar 05 15:44:10 SpeedEvil, That's very exciting news. (-: Mar 05 15:44:16 how long ago did that email hit koen? Mar 05 15:44:32 noidd: no email :) Mar 05 15:44:44 they were shipping when I logged on a 9am GMT this morning Mar 05 15:46:04 how did you get notification then if not by email? Mar 05 15:46:33 noidd: got given a tracking number Mar 05 15:46:36 noidd: magic :) Mar 05 15:46:49 wtb tracking number :-P Mar 05 15:47:26 * XorA will now stalk DHL Mar 05 15:49:46 time to plan some staying-at-home-for-dhl Mar 05 15:50:12 * XorA wont bother as depot is on way to work Mar 05 15:51:29 iirc the dhl dude passes my house at ~11.00 each day Mar 05 15:51:53 * alphaone knows someone who works at DHL in Brunswick... Mar 05 15:52:03 Need to give him a call Mar 05 15:52:27 alphaone: hmm, goes my package to brunswick, too? Mar 05 15:52:39 stefan_schmidt: I believe so Mar 05 15:52:40 s/to/through/ Mar 05 15:52:40 stefan_schmidt meant: alphaone: hmm, goes my package through brunswick, too? Mar 05 16:04:28 np: Oleta Adams - Get Here. Mar 05 16:40:41 <_buz> maybe i should print those openmoko screenshots at 300dpi ;) Mar 05 16:41:12 <_buz> on overhead slides then put it in front of a light source ;) Mar 05 16:41:29 or just bring the phone Mar 05 16:42:27 <_buz> if i had one Mar 05 16:42:40 you want one? Mar 05 16:42:49 counter? Mar 05 16:42:49 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; 09:38:35 (0.402 +-0.4 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-03-04); a month (31.804 +-10.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-05); 6 months, a week, 3 days (194.804 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (472) Mar 05 16:43:08 <_buz> actually i want the summer refresh Mar 05 16:43:11 <_buz> whatever it brings ;) Mar 05 16:43:20 cool Mar 05 16:43:42 * Neo1973 GSM Smartphone rev. GTA01Bv3 (Color: Black and Silver) Mar 05 16:43:44 YES! Mar 05 16:44:07 CoreDump|afk: It seems we don't get the cool lunchbox case, but do get the contents of it (debug board, torx, etc) Mar 05 16:44:29 * Guitar Pick (for case/housing disassembly) Mar 05 16:45:06 guitar pick !? Mar 05 16:47:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_pick Mar 05 16:47:20 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/phase-0-is-shipping Mar 05 16:47:27 A guitar pick is a type of plectrum designed for use on a guitar. And we will use it to open case Mar 05 16:47:31 "plectrum" Mar 05 16:47:47 reminds me of the tenacious D movie :) Mar 05 16:48:20 SpeedEvil, tx again for clarifying the status of gpsd, i added myself to the buyers list, i guess thats good for nothing, will have to wait til the "phones" arrive to europe Mar 05 16:48:48 "Extra heavy Jim Dunlop Stubby pick is exactly 2.0 mm thick, measured by precise instrument" Mar 05 16:49:18 * koen hugs calipers Mar 05 16:50:13 hrw: I know what a guitar pick is. Mar 05 16:50:29 source of the detailed report? :-) Mar 05 16:50:30 I just don't understand how you play guitar with the neo 1973 Mar 05 16:51:23 the pick is to taake the case apart Mar 05 16:51:25 noidd: dhl.com Mar 05 16:51:48 Well, you had the advantage of a tracking # Mar 05 16:51:54 * noidd greps his mailbox Mar 05 16:53:19 counter Mar 05 16:53:19 P0: 09:33:20 (0.398 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.796 +-10.0 (see faq) (473) Mar 05 16:53:27 ehh Mar 05 16:53:51 it is out 3days before my birthday;) Mar 05 16:53:59 noidd: they shipped 36 devices today, maybe you're #37? Mar 05 16:54:29 MetaMorfoziS: when is your birthday Mar 05 16:54:30 koen: Isn't the carrying case the cool lunchbox? Mar 05 16:55:07 03.09 Mar 05 16:55:20 alphaone: I have no idea Mar 05 16:55:29 alphaone: I'm trying not to get my hopes up Mar 05 16:55:48 im 123 :( Mar 05 16:55:59 koen: that number is significant. Mar 05 16:56:04 MetalMorfoziS: we have the same birthday :) Mar 05 16:56:21 koen: If we assume the initial run was 500 items, 36 is 7% Mar 05 16:56:22 koen: Right Mar 05 16:56:28 which was the initial failure rate. Mar 05 16:56:33 third of november of ninth of march? Mar 05 16:56:35 well, success rate Mar 05 16:56:40 We can always celebrate even more afterwards :-) Mar 05 16:56:45 s/of ni/or ni/ Mar 05 16:56:45 loufoque meant: third of november or ninth of march? Mar 05 16:59:10 It's been said that P1 will be different hardware though. Mar 05 16:59:18 hi folks, i'm trying to build the openmoko devel image.. roughly how long does it take? Mar 05 16:59:19 With a new PCB. Mar 05 16:59:39 So if the 36 was true, then there are 460+ sort-of-working boards out there. Mar 05 17:01:01 p1 is p0 with few PCB fixes Mar 05 17:01:03 I'm hypothisising and probably completely wrong Mar 05 17:01:04 3/6/2007 12:42 am Arrived at DHL facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong Mar 05 17:01:06 :-) Mar 05 17:01:11 gratz alphaone Mar 05 17:01:13 bbl Mar 05 17:01:18 jipi: ten minutes Mar 05 17:01:42 loufuque: sounds great... compared to the nslu2 or zaurus Mar 05 17:01:43 just a wild guess Mar 05 17:01:54 loufoque:!!! Mar 05 17:02:46 you compile it for x86 right? Mar 05 17:03:40 counter Mar 05 17:03:40 P0: 09:28:09 (0.395 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.789 +-10.0 (see faq) (474) Mar 05 17:07:19 loufoque: openmoko? or nslu2 or zaurus? Mar 05 17:07:46 openmoko Mar 05 17:08:32 nslu2? Mar 05 17:08:39 isn't that the NAS-thing? Mar 05 17:09:13 loufoque: i am at make setup... not there yet... it is still pulling some OE.mtn.bz2 frm seomwhere Mar 05 17:09:29 daxxar: ya Mar 05 17:10:13 ok need to zzz.. i'll jut leave it running and see. Mar 05 17:14:11 3/5/2007 9:27 pm Arrived at DHL facility. Taipei, Taiwan Mar 05 17:14:15 shiny! Mar 05 17:14:27 Now we wait to fight with Customs Mar 05 17:17:19 np: The Killers - I predict a riot. Mar 05 17:33:44 counter Mar 05 17:33:44 P0: 09:13:08 (0.384 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.768 +-10.0 (see faq) (475) Mar 05 17:43:33 i just read the community ML thread "Idea: Mass Text Messaging". Mar 05 17:44:45 i don't know how the state is with current up-to-date mobile phone software (I still use a nokia3310!), but i know that on semi-old phones (like SE T610) there was a problem ... Mar 05 17:46:05 if you mass sent to a list of receipients and the sending somehow failed to some individuals, there was no way to identify which individuals that got the message and who didn't. Mar 05 17:46:24 but this is mostly fixed in nowadays phones, or what? Mar 05 17:47:17 anyways.. at least it will be fixed on our open Neo1973 :) Mar 05 17:47:18 that is not phone's problem I guess Mar 05 17:47:36 operators problem in somehow Mar 05 17:48:20 no. a mass text messaging is just implementing an automated way to send several individual messages in series, rihgt? Mar 05 17:48:42 so the software should be able to tell how far it managed to get through the list. Mar 05 17:49:09 yup, it send over to the operator by a Q, FIFO Mar 05 17:49:39 you mean, like in a burst. so that you only get one collective report of a failure for the whole Q ? Mar 05 17:49:46 if so, that sounds like stupid. Mar 05 17:50:00 i've always thought it was a software flaw. Mar 05 17:50:31 the message did not go through because it was rejected by operator's transmission Mar 05 17:50:55 those transmission received messages and sent messages automatically Mar 05 17:51:21 all messages are operated in memory most of time Mar 05 17:51:35 it called mem database something. Mar 05 17:51:54 i don't think i understand you. Mar 05 17:51:59 haha Mar 05 17:52:11 :) Mar 05 17:52:53 that is ok. Just let you know that if you have some failures on sending mass messages, it is very normal. Mar 05 17:53:06 not just your phone's problem, also be your operator's problem too. Mar 05 17:53:58 operator has a max. capacity for messages. Mar 05 17:53:59 jackey: shouldn't you get an individual error report for each SMS / receipient ? Mar 05 17:54:39 or do you say that mass messages uses an other protocol than sending individual messages quickly in a series? Mar 05 17:54:47 s/series/row/ Mar 05 17:55:02 aevin meant: or do you say that mass messages uses an other protocol than sending individual messages quickly in a row? Mar 05 17:55:15 i really do not think so. Mar 05 17:55:54 Operator does not care about that. At least, I am sure that China Mobile does not care. Mar 05 17:56:35 we'll find out when the Neos are around :) at least we can write the software to check it out. Mar 05 17:56:42 Let me give you a short example. I have a 4M memory, I can only store 2000 contacts with 4M. Mar 05 17:56:46 maybe , as you say, it's network/carrier dependant. Mar 05 17:57:01 in order to add new contacts, i have to drop some old ones first. Mar 05 17:57:09 -dEnt Mar 05 17:57:35 yup, it is network/carrier thing Mar 05 17:57:36 jackey: so you say there's an upper limit? Mar 05 17:57:38 ok. Mar 05 17:58:12 en, messages will not store in hard drive, it is transmited in memory Mar 05 17:58:36 i don't know how it's like with your operator, but according to your experience you get charged the same as for sending X individual messages, right? Mar 05 17:58:37 you get a failure response because your message is timeout in Q Mar 05 17:59:28 that is something that i do not know. 99% people does not care. Mar 05 18:00:15 During Chinese New Year Festival, people like to send greeting to everyone they knew. Mar 05 18:00:22 i was just wondering if your operator had some special mass messaging support implemented and if we were talking about the same thing. Mar 05 18:00:41 Messages were lost or sent one week later. Mar 05 18:01:58 My english is not that good. But I am confident that operators have their limitation. Mar 05 18:02:13 jackey: your English is rather good, really Mar 05 18:02:27 Especially in China, 52M new mobile users every month Mar 05 18:04:03 I worked with operators. Since may be different when you have to handle over too many mobile users, e.g. 5 billion. Mar 05 18:04:45 China Mobile made 11 billion in Chinese New Year Festival (only a week) Mar 05 18:05:29 english billion? as 10^9 Mar 05 18:05:50 just for mobile messages, 11 billion RMB close 1.x Billion USD Mar 05 18:06:13 an english billion is 10^12 Mar 05 18:06:40 each message is less than $CNY 0.10, 11B / 0.10 = lots lots Mar 05 18:06:41 a billion is a thousand millions Mar 05 18:06:51 loufoque: it depends.. Mar 05 18:06:58 lots lots of messages Mar 05 18:07:12 loufoque: in Polish we have milion (10^6), miliard (10^9), bilion (10^12) Mar 05 18:07:28 hrw: same in .nl Mar 05 18:07:45 in English, a billion is what you would call a miliard Mar 05 18:07:52 last experience, they had at least 20% drop off ( failed to send messages ) Mar 05 18:07:53 hrw: but in europe we understand the metric system :) Mar 05 18:07:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion Mar 05 18:08:07 hrw: same in .no :) Mar 05 18:08:22 thanks, good to know loufoque Mar 05 18:09:45 hey, anyone here had a neo? Mar 05 18:09:59 not yet Mar 05 18:10:04 it's being shipped Mar 05 18:10:14 from taipei Mar 05 18:10:21 you ordered? Mar 05 18:10:25 how? Mar 05 18:11:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales Mar 05 18:12:02 jackey: I played with two protos Mar 05 18:12:06 aevin, your problem will also depend on the base station served your mobile. Mar 05 18:13:20 aevin, if you are taking about GSM network. I am pretty sure that some base station will drop messages somehow. Mar 05 18:13:32 yes. i think you earlier might have been thinking of the case when the network is congested when there may be a long delay until the message is delivered. Mar 05 18:14:27 i was more thinking of the case when you have low SNR and the transmission partly failed (with ~instant delivery through the network). Mar 05 18:14:38 that is right. >= 60 % mobile were designed in China, especially in Taiwan. Mar 05 18:15:27 Mobile hardware vendors are doing pretty good jobs in last decade Mar 05 18:16:29 yup Mar 05 18:16:38 hrw, p0 and p1? Mar 05 18:16:59 jackey: no. p-1 both Mar 05 18:17:36 jackey: prototypes. p0 is first non-prototype, p1 is/will be first usable phone Mar 05 18:17:38 hrw, wow. P1 is ready to make/receive a call? Mar 05 18:18:04 jackey: p0 is ready but has sidetone during call which make it unusable Mar 05 18:18:13 too loud sidetone Mar 05 18:18:15 counter Mar 05 18:18:15 some shipped P0: 08:50:52 (0.369 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.737 +-10.0 (see faq) (475) Mar 05 18:18:22 every unit will have some sidetone Mar 05 18:18:47 sidetone? noise from the power supply ? Mar 05 18:18:53 how is UI looks like? Same as pics on website? Mar 05 18:19:05 hmm, P1 date got moved into the future? Mar 05 18:19:35 I think GTK is a better solution for mobile linux, less license problems Mar 05 18:19:52 jackey: better than ... ? Mar 05 18:20:41 than nothing, hehe. Mar 05 18:20:58 i agree ;-) Mar 05 18:21:13 hrw: I am French, and we avoid the problem very easily : we don't use the words "billion" or "trillion". Mar 05 18:21:25 btw, better than nothing may perhaps be misinterpreted... :) Mar 05 18:22:14 aevin, No comments on that. :-) Mar 05 18:22:35 aevin: then Qt Mar 05 18:22:55 :-O Mar 05 18:22:56 hrw: i think i still agree :) Mar 05 18:23:10 No comments on that too. Mar 05 18:23:23 Qt == GPL or pay Mar 05 18:24:30 you know that guy (knut yrvin, trolltech) asking questions after about 29 mins into the video from the OpenMoko presentation at FOSDEM... Mar 05 18:25:03 ... he had a presentation about greenphone at my univ approx two weeks earlier. Mar 05 18:25:38 then i asked him if he'd heard about openmoko and if he regarded it as a serious competitor vs their qtopia. Mar 05 18:25:41 LarstiQ: lower limit is still 2007-03-25, but yeah, its probably a bit later Mar 05 18:26:26 aevin: what did he answer? :P Mar 05 18:26:34 he mostly laughed and said he didn't want to specify too much on who was considered to be the biggest competitor and that he thought FIC was crazy being too open about things . Mar 05 18:26:59 aloril2: where do you update that information from? Mar 05 18:27:46 and then he mentioned that he thought FIC would have trouble to get permission to sell them, with that FCC/some operators doesn't allow open source phones due to risk of sabotage to the network etc. Mar 05 18:28:21 but that was kind of weird that he said that, because he just had been us that the greenphone had been running into the same "problem", of course. Mar 05 18:28:59 and they too went for a solution with a seperate radio/GSM chip running proprietary sw and using AT commands etc. Mar 05 18:29:10 honestly, openmoko has a long way to go. Mar 05 18:29:52 but i think he/trolltech had understood it as they were only allowed to sell it (after some debate with some carriers) since they marketed it as a developer phone, and not for end user. Mar 05 18:30:35 and that openmoko/neo1973 would run into more trouble because it was supposed to also be marketed for end users/mass market. Mar 05 18:30:52 In my viewpoint, Mr Yrvin laughted: Go ahead, you will be ... down anyway. Mar 05 18:32:11 besides that he also said that openmoko was a kind of confirmation that they were doing the right thing, as sa credit to them, by using linux on the mobile phone (but it's not that trolltech tries to free the phones, most of their customers develops for locked linux phones, i guess) Mar 05 18:32:55 ... and that he thought linux on mobile would grow enourmously Mar 05 18:33:05 Actually, i think that openmoko is good for them in many ways. Mar 05 18:33:10 -u Mar 05 18:33:42 aevin, he is right. Mar 05 18:33:49 jackey: yes, since the phone is free there's nothing stopping them from starting their own Qt-based DE / distro. Mar 05 18:34:26 i am thinking that may be we could run qtopia on neo and show to him. Mar 05 18:34:33 it mostly depends on the commmunity, if someone really want a Qt phone. Mar 05 18:34:42 See, it works with Qtopia, can we sale it now? Mar 05 18:37:27 Qtopia 4.2 Phone Edition is much better than 2.2. Unfortunately, most of applications running on 2.2 will not work on 4.2 Mar 05 18:39:35 LarstiQ: ml, fosdem video/slides and irq Mar 05 18:39:56 irq? Mar 05 18:39:57 aloril2: ho hum Mar 05 18:40:17 aloril2: I thought I've been paying attention to all of those Mar 05 18:41:50 jackey: but i don't think yrvin was raising those questions and being skeptic about things _just_ because the OM distro will use GTK+ instead of Qt. Mar 05 18:42:53 counter Mar 05 18:42:53 some shipped P0: 08:38:33 (0.360 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.720 +-10.0 (see faq) (476) Mar 05 18:43:07 haha, you are right. Biz is biz Mar 05 18:43:24 i think (at least i hope) he was trying to be sincere with his concerns, based on their experiences by moving open source phone into the market. Mar 05 18:44:25 Lots of design houses are moving their focus onto Linux. ACCESS did so. Mar 05 18:44:37 btw, it seems like there won't be much choice between possible operators if you live in the US. (but I don't really know the whole american market) Mar 05 18:45:15 American Market is small compare to Chinese market. Mar 05 18:45:28 if AT&T/cingular requires the Neo1973 to be white-listed, will there only be T-Mobile, or is there other GSM (virtual) operators to choose from? Mar 05 18:45:36 p0 shipped woot. anyone know in what quantity? Mar 05 18:46:04 Rogers maybe Mar 05 18:46:18 in Canada Mar 05 18:46:30 "white listed"?! What's that? Mar 05 18:47:12 Elrond: only approved phones can make calls Mar 05 18:47:13 Elrond: i think i read it on the community ML. i assume it is that only phones approved by the operator is allowed access to the network. Mar 05 18:47:25 based on what identifier? Mar 05 18:47:31 Elrond: they add your imei to /etc/ethers ;) Mar 05 18:47:49 aevin, for biz, profit is a must Mar 05 18:48:00 That's another way of vendor lock in. C00l. ;o) Mar 05 18:48:08 jackey: yeah. let's hope FIC will succeed (too). Mar 05 18:48:54 Another reason not to move to .us ;) Mar 05 18:49:03 when the 2.6 port is finished we can run openmoko on the greenphone Mar 05 18:49:45 koen: zecke is making good progress? Mar 05 18:49:50 koen: they're upgrading the kernel from 2.4 ? Mar 05 18:50:07 aevin: no, zecke is doing a 2.6 port on his own Mar 05 18:50:18 aevin: Not trolltech, your friendly neighbour hacker. :) Mar 05 18:50:27 cool :) Mar 05 18:52:33 btw, in that greenphone presentation with Yrvin, he complained some about their kernel supplier (was it a company in australia? i don't know) mentioning some difficulties to collaborate with them and hinting that they _might_ perhaps look for a new kernel supplier. Mar 05 18:53:36 but he couldn't say anything (but he wasn't hard to read) as nothing was official and they're a public company etc. lol. Mar 05 18:53:39 So I guess it's not very likely that we'll see a phone doing cdma and evdo this year in the US. Mar 05 18:53:40 there are 17 binary only modules in the greenphone kernel Mar 05 18:54:05 so the next person that says "open" needs to think about what it really means Mar 05 18:54:30 don-o: 36 phones shipped yesterday Mar 05 18:56:33 LarstiQ: latest change is mostly influences by hrw's estimate of 4-6 weeks from last week in this channel (hrw has been right about delays earlier too), also I think at fosdem it was said late March or early April too Mar 05 18:58:08 aloril2: thx for having faith in me ;D Mar 05 18:58:18 or how it will be in english Mar 05 18:58:32 * CM thinks it's correct Mar 05 19:00:33 cu Mar 05 19:01:21 aloril2: ok Mar 05 19:27:44 hi Mar 05 19:31:16 hi Mar 05 19:46:21 openmoko: 03laforge * r1249 10/branches/oe/: oe branches Mar 05 19:47:23 openmoko: 03laforge * r1250 10/branches/oe/pre-20070305/: branch off the old pre-20070305 'oe' bb collection, 'trunk' will update to current OE. Mar 05 19:52:01 <_buz> http://www.meizume.com/showthread.php?t=852 i dont believe the price Mar 05 19:52:34 openmoko: 03laforge * r1251 10/trunk/oe/ (32 files in 26 dirs): Mar 05 19:52:34 openmoko: update our 'oe' recipie collection to upstream OE. This is known to build with Mar 05 19:52:34 openmoko: upstream OE mtn version 'e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded' from 20070305 Mar 05 20:59:49 StylusEater: Great nick :-) (Btw, you know there's no stylus holder on the Neo?) Mar 05 21:01:14 Is there already a wishlist filed for the stylus holder? Mar 05 21:01:45 Don't know, maybe in the "holder" or what it was.. Mar 05 21:02:38 is the developer phone going to be limited to any particular group besides those willing to pay $350? i.e., can I buy one? ;) Mar 05 21:02:39 BrianHV: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 05 21:03:04 ~change 416.5 usd to eur Mar 05 21:03:10 416.50 United States Dollar (USD) makes 318.110 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Mar 05 21:03:30 BrianHV - You can buy one. Mar 05 21:03:38 nice. Mar 05 21:03:40 ... provided you wait approx a month. Mar 05 21:03:51 I don't have any free time until april, anyway. Mar 05 21:04:10 and seeing as I'm on CDMA, it would only be to tinker, so no rush. Mar 05 21:04:20 * rwhitby wakes and see phase0 email Mar 05 21:04:30 CDMA? Mar 05 21:04:43 rwhitby - So your phone is also in transit?! Mar 05 21:04:49 the cell protocol in the US that isn't GSM Mar 05 21:05:01 They sent 36 yesterday Mar 05 21:05:45 CM - Ahh. Using a carrier with online tracking? Mar 05 21:06:03 3/6/2007 3:55 am Depart Facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong Mar 05 21:06:12 :) Mar 05 21:06:25 Ahh. :) Mar 05 21:06:30 Which timezone is that? ;o) Mar 05 21:06:43 Elrond: DHL. LaF0rge said that it was 36 units shipped earlier in #oe Mar 05 21:06:52 3/6/2007 2:43 am Depart Facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong Mar 05 21:06:54 Also, nice that they're merging with oe Mar 05 21:07:13 Yes. Mar 05 21:07:19 I hope they merge with u-boot too. Mar 05 21:08:27 " They sent 36 yesterday" NICE! Mar 05 21:10:27 hopefully someone will do a blog entry about the actualy p0 units. Mar 05 21:10:35 s/actualy/actual/ Mar 05 21:10:35 don-o meant: hopefully someone will do a blog entry about the actual p0 units. Mar 05 21:10:44 * don-o laughs Mar 05 21:11:00 * rwhitby is taking a camera to work ... Mar 05 21:12:38 rwhitby - Take pics of the box before opening it. Please resist the immediate "I need to open it NOW" pressure. :) Mar 05 21:12:50 heh Mar 05 21:13:05 * LoDown agrees with Elrond Mar 05 21:13:20 * stefan_schmidt guesses there will be *many* photo stories Mar 05 21:13:58 * CM can picture koen already polishing lenses ;) Mar 05 21:14:08 hopefully enought to hold me over until I can afford a unit Mar 05 21:14:15 stefan_schmidt - Yeah, I guess so too. But seldom they have "boxes before opening" ;) Mar 05 21:14:18 speaking of the devil Mar 05 21:15:17 Elrond: Can be. Personally I have no camera at all. :) Mar 05 21:15:49 CM - hehe, "show pix" ;o) Mar 05 21:17:35 266 ppl here.. Quite popular :) Mar 05 21:17:54 apt: And you Mar 05 21:17:55 * koen starts polishing lenses Mar 05 21:17:55 i'm a broken bot Mar 05 21:18:08 koen: :P Mar 05 21:18:39 apt: botsnack Mar 05 21:18:39 Elrond: :) Mar 05 21:19:57 I'm sure koen will have much better photos than I - I'm not really a photography enthusiast like he is. Mar 05 21:20:21 but I expect I won't get it for 24 hours at this rate anyway. Mar 05 21:20:46 rwhitby: I still haven't managed to capture my toys as nice as you did with yours Mar 05 21:21:13 koen: you mean "SlugCentral" ? Mar 05 21:21:33 yep, that one Mar 05 21:21:35 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/slug-central Mar 05 21:26:35 * CM thinks LaF0rge rocks! Mar 05 21:35:16 * rwhitby sees that is overnight complete mokomakefile rebuild from scratch worked nicely. Mar 05 21:35:31 rwhitby: must be a bug somewhere Mar 05 21:36:25 thresh_: yes, there always is - no such thing as bug-free software Mar 05 21:40:59 hmm - cathay pacific (dhl partner flying out of hong kong) only flies direct to adelaide on mon,wed,..., so I won't get it today. Mar 05 21:44:35 Neo1973 GSM Smartphone rev. GTA01Bv3 (Color: Black and Silver) Mar 05 21:44:39 black and silver. yes!! Mar 05 21:45:01 has anyone pastebin'd the phase0 email for you guys yet? Mar 05 21:45:33 ooh, black and silver? Mar 05 21:45:48 I think the orange on mine goes better with OLPCs than silver :) Mar 05 21:46:00 * SpeedEvil wants octarine and infra-violent. Mar 05 21:46:08 cjb: What, no black silver OLPC? Mar 05 21:46:09 ;) Mar 05 21:46:26 http://pastebin.ca/382747 <- phase0 email Mar 05 21:46:34 stefan_schmidt: maybe, maybe :) Mar 05 21:47:14 including the torx bit is a nice touch. Mar 05 21:47:17 one of the reasons to use pastel colours is that we want the laptops to be as childlike as possible, to avoid people stealing them Mar 05 21:47:23 cjb: You know something about the deal with buying 2 OLPC get one for you and one for a child. Would be more then happy to do so. (Need a edu pc for my godchild anyway. :)) Mar 05 21:47:50 stefan_schmidt: It's just an idea that someone unassociated the project proposed, so there are no concrete plans to do it. Makes sense to me, though. Mar 05 21:47:50 OLPC? Mar 05 21:48:33 For the moment, I think US people who want one should just get a $350 Dell laptop instead. The OLPCs are pretty specific to problems people in the developing world have, like no power or network infrastructure. Mar 05 21:49:03 cjb: OK, I can wait. Would be a nice idea IMHO. I know many people would like to help children and get one for hacking. We shall see. Mar 05 21:49:27 daxxar: One Laptop Per Child project Mar 05 21:49:42 ah Mar 05 21:49:48 Heard of that :) Mar 05 21:50:02 cjb: Indeed I can buy another pc with more power, but I like the children friendly design and ideas. Mar 05 21:50:57 * stefan_schmidt has to gos back to openmoko work. cu later Mar 05 21:51:46 :) Mar 05 21:55:57 rwhitby: there seem to be asterisks where your trackling number should be :-) Mar 05 22:05:04 noidd: indeed :-) Mar 05 22:22:21 stefan_schmidt - Without any idea of it or any implied warranties (I just was pointed by someone at it and I have NOT yet looked a lot at it): www.koolu.com. As I understand it, this wants to be this "one pc for you, one for a someone who needs it) Mar 05 22:25:52 when can I get the 1973 ? Mar 05 22:26:01 see topic Mar 05 22:26:22 shwag: say 'counter' Mar 05 22:26:28 counter Mar 05 22:26:28 some shipped P0: 06:46:45 (0.282 +-0.3 days); P1: 31.565 +-10.0 (see faq) (477) Mar 05 22:26:41 shwag: 31 days left. Mar 05 22:26:51 whats P0 and P1 ? Mar 05 22:26:55 phase.. Mar 05 22:26:59 P0 = shipped dev devices Mar 05 22:27:02 shwag: see the faq :) (they are hardware revs) Mar 05 22:27:07 P1 = to-ship dev-user devices. Mar 05 22:27:14 P2 = mass market (Sep) Mar 05 22:31:21 ../../src/share/tools/javazic/sun/tools/javazic/Time.java:164: sun.util.calendar.CalendarDate is abstract; cannot be instantiated CalendarDate date = new CalendarDate(year, month, day); Mar 05 22:31:26 args Mar 05 22:34:37 woglinde: Date date = (new Calendar().set(year, month, day)).getTime() ? Mar 05 22:34:54 b_linderje sorry wasnt meant in this channel Mar 05 22:35:21 b_lindeijer its from the phonme mr2 Mar 05 22:35:21 Hehe. Mar 05 22:35:44 Also, I noticed now that Calendar() is protected, and you probaly should use GregorianCalendar. :) Mar 05 22:36:11 he its not my code Mar 05 22:36:33 Alright, just trying to help out. Mar 05 22:37:13 dont know why they release such crappy things Mar 05 22:41:13 woglinde - *duck* "Because the community will do the work for free"? ;o) Mar 05 22:41:45 elrond yes Mar 05 22:42:03 w000t Mar 05 22:42:24 "(Color: Black and Silver)" Mar 05 22:42:54 * SpeedEvil sighs. Mar 05 22:43:36 * CoreDump|home does the neo dance Mar 05 22:44:25 hm its in a function called getLocalTime Mar 05 22:44:32 nice, it's even an express shipment Mar 05 22:44:38 coredump hehe how long last the akku? Mar 05 22:44:40 CoreDump|home: Could you document that on the wiki? Mar 05 22:44:56 woglinde: At the worst, 2 days. Mar 05 22:44:57 I don't have it yet Mar 05 22:45:04 lol Mar 05 22:45:06 Just saying =) Mar 05 22:45:08 woglinde: actual numbers have not bee published. Mar 05 22:45:14 3-4 hours of video. Mar 05 22:45:22 they will be very bad for p0 devices tho Mar 05 22:45:28 Yeah. Mar 05 22:45:43 speedevil this the reason I suspended it Mar 05 22:45:45 However, they should be accurate in normal mode. Mar 05 22:45:54 suspended what? Mar 05 22:46:14 CoreDump|home Put it on [[Neo1973:Dance]] Mar 05 22:46:22 SpeedEvil: hehe Mar 05 22:46:26 no cam here Mar 05 22:46:29 speedevil the phone Mar 05 22:46:38 would look rather stupid anyway hehe Mar 05 22:46:49 How can you suspend a phone you don't have? Mar 05 22:46:54 woglinde: so you are one of the 14 ;) Mar 05 22:46:59 Oh. Mar 05 22:47:04 * SpeedEvil feels silly. Mar 05 22:47:24 speedevil no problem Mar 05 22:47:27 :) Mar 05 22:47:35 Shipment Reference: ENGINEERING SAMPLE Mar 05 22:47:36 =D Mar 05 22:47:37 What wakeup sources does it support? Mar 05 22:47:46 I thought it couldn't wakeup when suspended. Mar 05 22:48:03 no no Mar 05 22:48:10 I will get it later Mar 05 22:48:14 thats all Mar 05 22:48:21 next hw-revision Mar 05 22:48:37 The first hardware revidsion you can buy will not thave those bugs. Mar 05 22:48:55 It's only the P0 phones that are going out to core developers that have bugs. Mar 05 22:49:01 woglinde: while tax might be a bitch, It rocks to have one phone for hacking and one for err "Phoning" Mar 05 22:49:28 coredump we will see Mar 05 22:49:39 but my actual cellphone is broken Mar 05 22:49:55 woglinde: ah :\ Mar 05 22:50:15 * CoreDump|home looks at his battle-worn k700i Mar 05 22:50:23 battle? Mar 05 22:50:41 it looks like it has been two both world-wars =) Mar 05 22:50:55 s/two/to Mar 05 22:51:04 at...whatever Mar 05 22:51:48 hm you set it on fire? Mar 05 22:52:39 I always carry it in my pants. It has scratches all-over and is missing color in some spots =). The backplate is kinda dented as well Mar 05 22:53:58 hmmm, I can't find the specs of International Express on DHL.com Mar 05 23:09:48 hm Mar 05 23:10:31 I think I have the java error, the jvm loads its own Classes for some Classes instead of the phoneme classes Mar 05 23:15:58 LaF0rge: for MokoMakefile, should I freeze at the new OE revision, or let the OE revision float? Mar 05 23:18:17 * rwhitby freezes at new revision until he hears otherwise. Mar 05 23:19:17 * CoreDump|home wished someone would "freeze" kernel and u-boot... Mar 05 23:20:01 jebba: there is no openmoko-dates.patch any more in mokomakefile - you need to update Mar 05 23:21:17 CoreDump|home: with mokomakefile it only builds once per day. and LaF0rge has a cunning plan for fixing that permanently too. Mar 05 23:21:46 yeah, I read about it. Nifty idea Mar 05 23:22:50 pity the initial reaction from OE was "how come you didn't talk to us" instead of "great, let's all work together on this, since you have the cash to pay someone to do it" Mar 05 23:23:24 hmm, but i did update. There is one in patches/openmoko-HEAD/openmoko-dates.patch "At revision 10" (`make update-makefile && make update-patches`) Mar 05 23:24:12 jebba: we're at revision 42 now. Mar 05 23:24:23 could be easily done w/ a bbclass Mar 05 23:24:24 peculiar Mar 05 23:24:39 (you must have missed the move from projects.openmoko.org to svn.nslu2-linux.org due to anon svn not working on proj.om.org Mar 05 23:25:55 jebba: grab a new copy of the Makefile from www.rwhitby.net and move away the patches dir to get a new one Mar 05 23:29:32 ah, ok. Ya, now it's giving me rev 42.... (i was wondering what had happened there....) thanks :) Mar 05 23:30:29 wait for a couple of minutes before you kick off a new build Mar 05 23:31:57 jebba: you'll want the next rev which will appear soon Mar 05 23:32:21 ctrl-c Mar 05 23:32:52 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r43 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Removed freeze on OE revision, and reinstated update-mtn and update-openembedded dependencies, as per latest OM core dev usage. Mar 05 23:33:01 give that a go Mar 05 23:36:37 REMINDER: For the students here: If OpenMoko should attend Google summer of code we need more ideas. Please add, serious one, to the wiki until 2007-03-09. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code Mar 05 23:36:56 `make update` ... good so far. We're gonna have one helluva polished build system by the time we actually get fones ;) Mar 05 23:37:24 jebba: I'm working on adding devirginator build assistance to mokomakefile next Mar 05 23:38:53 * don-o gives the mokomakefile a try Mar 05 23:39:10 stefan_schmidt: added one Mar 05 23:39:16 don-o: three out of three new developers recommend it ... Mar 05 23:40:05 cjb: thanks Mar 05 23:41:00 stefan_schmidt: added another :) Mar 05 23:41:05 heh Mar 05 23:41:17 cjb: what other tools have you needed in your first week with the neo? what should be added to mokomakefile to make it easier for phase0 devs? Mar 05 23:41:31 stefan_schmidt: Let me know if OpenMoko would like help running/mentoring SoC; I was one of the admins for GNOME's SoC last year. Mar 05 23:42:46 so, is there a p0 device yet? Mar 05 23:42:47 rwhitby: Did a great job for me; I've only needed the uImage, u-boot and NAND image, and it creates all of them. Mar 05 23:42:49 counter Mar 05 23:42:49 some shipped P0: 06:08:35 (0.256 +-0.3 days); P1: 31.512 +-10.0 (see faq) (478) Mar 05 23:42:50 cjb: I think they could need help. I talk to mickey|austria about it and send you a mail. What's your address? Mar 05 23:43:06 LuitvD: Shipped yesterday in .tw Mar 05 23:43:08 stefan_schmidt: cjb =at= laptop.org Mar 05 23:43:10 nice Mar 05 23:43:11 LuitvD: http://pastebin.ca/382747 Mar 05 23:43:16 cjb: nice one :) Mar 05 23:43:54 rwhitby: printed version of both GPL and LGPL? lol Mar 05 23:44:13 cjb: I hope to mail you on sunday. Mar 05 23:44:29 nice package... debugboard and all :| Mar 05 23:44:31 stefan_schmidt: Sure. Mar 05 23:45:31 cjb - BTW: Did you find out about the partitioning? Mar 05 23:46:21 cjb: did you try out devirginator? Mar 05 23:46:34 Elrond: looks like I need a u-boot update Mar 05 23:46:45 rwhitby: no, because my debug board has no JTAG populated Mar 05 23:46:53 ah Mar 05 23:46:58 we have our own JTAG hardware here, but I haven't used it with OpenOCD. Mar 05 23:47:06 so I'd rather just flash u-boot from inside u-boot Mar 05 23:47:19 and then do the kernel/NAND updates in u-boot too Mar 05 23:48:25 cjb: no FTDI chip on your debug board? Mar 05 23:49:26 cjb - Didn't the debug board work? I thought you already got the serial console using it? Then openocd should work. Mar 05 23:49:39 cjb - But updating u-boot from inside u-boot should work. Mar 05 23:49:50 Elrond: the serial comes over the debug ribbon. I think JTAG goes over J10, which is a different port on the debug board. Mar 05 23:50:06 and my J10 is unpopulated; it looks populated in the photo on the wiki. Mar 05 23:50:20 cjb: that's just if you want to use the debug board for a non-Neo target Mar 05 23:50:38 oh! that's awesome. Mar 05 23:51:05 cjb: the jtag signals go through whatever that flat plastic cable is called Mar 05 23:51:10 cjb: the ftdi chip on the boards gives you both jtag and serial. Both over usb Mar 05 23:51:11 the FTDI chip does the JTAG Mar 05 23:51:25 awesome. thanks both. I'll try the devirginator instructions tonight, then. Mar 05 23:51:27 cjb - The big ribbon is jtag + serial console (+ spi + i2c + .... for the v04 phone) Mar 05 23:51:46 cjb: vmaster is the guy behind OpenOCD. He should be able to give you some hints. :) Mar 05 23:52:04 :) Mar 05 23:52:05 Ahh. Mar 05 23:52:38 I presumed from the actual port being unpopulated that our debug board v2 was like a debug board v1 (which didn't have JTAG). That clears it up, though, thanks. Mar 05 23:52:38 * stefan_schmidt should start more name project mappings in this channel ;) Mar 05 23:53:32 stefan_schmidt - You should ask aloril to put it in his scriptlets ;o) Mar 05 23:53:37 the OpenOCD doesn't allow you to flash the NAND though, so you would still use u-boot Mar 05 23:53:56 Elrond: heh Mar 05 23:54:02 you really only /need/ JTAG when you killed the u-boot in the NAND and in RAM Mar 05 23:54:33 to load an u-boot image that then does the flashing Mar 05 23:55:20 vmaster: I'm not sure about the NAND flashing offhand, but the devirginator app allows you a complete *reflash* of the device. Of course using openocd and all the other tools. Mar 05 23:55:47 s/complete *reflash*/*complete* reflash/ Mar 05 23:55:49 stefan_schmidt meant: vmaster: I'm not sure about the NAND flashing offhand, but the devirginator app allows you a *complete* reflash of the device. Of course using openocd and all the other tools. Mar 05 23:55:49 vmaster - (probably asking the wrong, but it seems you might know) Can u-boot load itself into ram and start itself? (which I would do, when I wanted to upgrade u-boot: First load into RAM, start to see, if it works, then flash it.) Mar 05 23:56:45 that's how it's used by the devirginator as I understand it Mar 05 23:57:09 jup Mar 05 23:57:17 I just browsed the SVN, and they're using the OpenOCD to load u-boot to RAM, which then does the flashing, but you can also use u-boot to load a new u-boot to RAM Mar 05 23:57:31 I thought devirginator would use sjf2410-something to flash u-boot and then reset the thing... Mar 05 23:57:47 Ahh. Mar 05 23:57:50 that only works with the parallel port JTAG of the v1 debug board Mar 05 23:58:09 Elrond: sjf2410 is old cruft. :) Mar 05 23:59:34 Ahh. Mar 06 00:00:06 Please remove the link to it from the Main Page then (if it's still there... my browser is closed, my bed waits.) Mar 06 00:00:28 Elrond: good night Mar 06 00:01:42 hihi. ;) I'm closing my apps. irc is last ;o) Mar 06 00:03:21 * SpeedEvil never closes apps, me just has intermittent long response times. Mar 06 00:05:11 SpeedEvil - Well, this terminal is next to my bed. ;) Mar 06 00:05:15 Anyway: Good night. :) Mar 06 00:05:44 Night. Mar 06 00:27:29 Anyone able to get MokoMakefile to work? Mar 06 00:27:43 yup Mar 06 00:28:20 vmaster: Right, you only *need* JTAG in that situation, but the devirginator uses it for all of those things anyway. Mar 06 00:28:29 Which is why I was kinda reluctant to use it. Mar 06 00:28:38 ah, ok Mar 06 00:28:56 well, you should be fine with your debug board, if it's got the FT2232D on it Mar 06 00:29:26 3/6/2007 7:28 am Arrived at DHL facility. Singapore, Singapore Mar 06 00:29:44 vmaster: Yup, it does. Mar 06 00:30:03 ok n8 alle Mar 06 00:30:35 my neo arrived in singapore 1 hour ago Mar 06 00:31:22 rwhitby: where do you live? Mar 06 00:31:29 Adelaide, Australia Mar 06 00:31:34 ah... Mar 06 00:31:42 so still a ways to go until it gets to you :( Mar 06 00:31:48 I doubt I'll get it today. But definitely first thing tomorrow morning. Mar 06 00:33:57 pjz: many people. pastebin your full log if your having problems Mar 06 00:35:19 rwhitby: will od, I'm retrying to get a 'fresh' failure :) Mar 06 00:37:42 mtpaint failure in ./configure Mar 06 00:37:47 | http://pastebin.ca/382940 Mar 06 00:39:10 pjz: perhaps your /bin/sh is not bash? Mar 06 00:39:29 omfg, stupid stupid ubuntu! Mar 06 00:39:36 cjb: good catch Mar 06 00:40:01 huh. so what *is* ubuntu's sh? :) Mar 06 00:40:08 'dash' Mar 06 00:40:13 haha Mar 06 00:40:14 whatever that is Mar 06 00:40:35 don't you mean stupid, stupid, unportable shell script? Mar 06 00:40:40 * rwhitby considers adding a 'stupid ubuntu' test to mokomakefile ... Mar 06 00:40:44 honestly, it's really.. yeah Clint Mar 06 00:40:52 yeah Clint is right Mar 06 00:40:59 in openwrt we just use bash for compiling all the packages Mar 06 00:41:11 hmm - now that OM is tracking OE, we should be able to fix that. Mar 06 00:41:22 * pjz quotes: in theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice they're different. Mar 06 00:41:31 it's very simple to make that line posix-conformant Mar 06 00:41:51 pjz: nice theory :) Mar 06 00:41:58 dash - The Debian Almquist Shell Mar 06 00:42:04 never noticed I was using that :) Mar 06 00:42:14 heh Mar 06 00:42:44 yeah, sorry, i'm newish to ubuntu though I've been running debian since 0.9 or so Mar 06 00:42:54 pjz: if you don't hack MokoMakefile, please update the wiki page at least. Mar 06 00:42:58 Clint: can you create a patch? Mar 06 00:43:13 we can patch it in OE now Mar 06 00:43:32 cool. (though we don't know that that's the only non-conformant script) Mar 06 00:44:13 (it's probably not, but that's the correct place to fix it (as well as upstream)) Mar 06 00:44:25 yup. Mar 06 00:44:39 you could test with a virtual machine instance someplace Mar 06 00:45:42 pjz: what actual file has that bad line? Mar 06 00:46:46 rwhitby: looks like mtpaint's ./configure Mar 06 00:46:51 dunno if that's generated or shipped Mar 06 00:47:02 which line? Mar 06 00:47:09 49 Mar 06 00:47:20 did you see the pastebin link? it's in there. Mar 06 00:47:57 ok, see it now. Mar 06 00:48:26 well, if someone (i.e. someone who wants to use ubuntu dash) wants to create a patch to fix that, I can add it to OE. Mar 06 00:49:04 rwhitby: it's not that someone wants to use dash as much as it is that by default ubuntu's /bin/sh is a symlink to dash, not bash. Mar 06 00:49:34 right, so we need someone with that (who hasn't changed it to bash yet) to create and test a patch Mar 06 00:49:58 ack, I just fixed it Mar 06 00:50:25 and IIRC it takes a few hours from blank to get there Mar 06 00:50:26 the configure script looks hand written, not generated. Mar 06 00:50:51 though if you can tell me what parts of oe to delete to make it get rebuilt I could do that Mar 06 00:51:14 I believe it is mentioned in step 1 of http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro <- did you not read that? Mar 06 00:51:15 some set of stamps and subdirs I'm sure would do the trick Mar 06 00:51:48 (step 1 of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile, which points to http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro) Mar 06 00:52:21 hrm, not since that was added, apparently Mar 06 00:52:38 or I missed it if so; I first tried this about 3 wks ago Mar 06 00:52:58 (cd build ; source ../setup-env ; bitbake -c clean mtpaint) should do it Mar 06 00:54:26 okay, did that, now retrying the make Mar 06 00:54:31 (which should fail) Mar 06 01:21:16 okay, it failed, and I replaced the "if [ foo ]" with "if test foo" Mar 06 01:21:30 is there a better POSIX construct I should use? Mar 06 01:21:54 Clint ? Mar 06 01:22:07 i don't understand why there is a need for ideas here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code when this page already exists: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List Mar 06 01:22:17 can't we just pick from the existing list? Mar 06 01:22:46 I think Google SOC projects have to be within the realms of feasibility ... Mar 06 01:23:22 (i.e. any wishlist items which cannot be done with phase1 hardware would be excluded Mar 06 01:23:34 and there needs to be a mentor too Mar 06 01:24:38 ah, I hadn't seen that list Mar 06 01:24:50 sure, items from that list that can be done in three months should go on the SoC list Mar 06 01:24:57 and the SoC list page should link to that page Mar 06 01:27:00 jebba: my rebuild is up to uboot Mar 06 01:27:31 rwhitby, mine died on: CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/X11/Xtrans Mar 06 01:27:32 | cc1: internal compiler error: in add_path, at c-incpath.c:362 Mar 06 01:28:12 jebba: which recipe? Mar 06 01:28:18 libx11-X11R7 Mar 06 01:28:46 do you have the libx11-dev package installed on the host? Mar 06 01:28:50 I haven't looked into it yet though, i just see it stopped there. x86_64 on etch, fwiw Mar 06 01:29:17 yes, version 1.0.3-5 Mar 06 01:29:38 hmm - dunno then Mar 06 01:30:12 that'd be one for #oe (once you've debugged a bit further), since it's not an openmoko-specific package Mar 06 01:30:30 ya, i can completely blow things out too...and start fresh Mar 06 01:31:53 * jebba doing: make clobber && make update && make all Mar 06 01:39:03 rwhitby: http://paste.debian.net/23151 Mar 06 01:39:04 pjz: ^ Mar 06 01:40:15 how about the 'function' stuff? Mar 06 01:40:45 oh, that's bad too Mar 06 01:41:56 rwhitby: http://paste.debian.net/23152 Mar 06 01:42:25 should i yell at mtpaint upstream? Mar 06 01:44:26 also >& is bad.. was that in 3.02? Mar 06 01:45:02 yeah Mar 06 01:45:06 what should it be? Mar 06 01:46:01 >/dev/null 2>&1 Mar 06 01:46:25 Clint: yeah, getting it fixed upstream would be great. Mar 06 01:46:57 okay, testing those fixes with dash Mar 06 01:47:18 actually, an easier fix might be just to add "#!/bin/bash" at the top of the configure script Mar 06 01:47:35 (until upstream fixes it) Mar 06 01:47:41 rwhitby: okay, i'll email a patch to mtpaint-devel for 3.10 Mar 06 02:02:44 does anyone know what sort of processing power would be required for realtime ogg encoding? if it is feasible? would not have to be very high quality. Mar 06 02:03:09 guess you mean vorbis. should be entirely feasible. Mar 06 02:03:23 yeah ogg vorbis Mar 06 02:03:56 robtaylor: ping Mar 06 02:04:46 does openmoko make use of the new ASoC kernel feature ? Mar 06 02:05:00 peepsalot: what's your realtime speecs like? Mar 06 02:05:44 Clint: those mods make it work fine under dash Mar 06 02:05:45 jipi, i don't know what you mean, i just was thinking for recording conversation, because uncompressed wav would fill the ram very quickly Mar 06 02:05:55 loufoque: what's ASoC? Mar 06 02:06:10 loufoque: openmoko's synced up with upstream, so I suppose it will, if the feature's relevant/supported. Mar 06 02:06:16 ALSA System on Chip Mar 06 02:06:27 rwhitby: pong Mar 06 02:06:59 rwhitby: I just verified that clint's mods make mtpaint work under dash Mar 06 02:07:00 peepsalot: i mean how realtime, or how much time between start encoding and end decoding for streaming Mar 06 02:07:20 mp3 at 64k is just fine Mar 06 02:07:29 robtaylor: just had a discussion with LaF0rge about the "end-user prebuilt image" idea we were talking about the other day. Mar 06 02:07:39 the take-aways are: Mar 06 02:07:57 1) no proprietary software, so make it a chroot rather than a vmware image Mar 06 02:08:16 2) use debian sarge and updated svn/monotone where required (cause that's what the OM autobuilders will be using) Mar 06 02:08:19 UML? Mar 06 02:08:51 rwhitby: sounds sensible Mar 06 02:09:01 hmm, sarge isn;t sensible though] Mar 06 02:09:11 3) he's has no opinion on MokoMakefile, but is not negative towards it Mar 06 02:09:44 Signed image? Mar 06 02:09:48 rwhitby: this is to run on hardware, or normal desktops? Mar 06 02:09:58 from experience I can say that something MokoMakefile-ish is very helpful in general Mar 06 02:10:00 cjb: normal desktops, for end users. Mar 06 02:10:03 I'd prefer to be demoing open embedded, rather than the openmoko svn Mar 06 02:10:13 ah. Mar 06 02:10:34 robtaylor: as of today, mokomakefile is tracking latest OE head (and openmoko svn head) Mar 06 02:11:22 ooh, rock Mar 06 02:11:27 * pjz lets the mokomakefile build keep going to see if dash breaks anything else Mar 06 02:11:32 ok, lets just ignore mokomakefile Mar 06 02:12:13 robtaylor: right - whether or not you use mokomakefile to set up the environment will be irrelevant to the end-user of the environment. Mar 06 02:12:49 yeah Mar 06 02:13:06 (obviously, I think MokoMakefile will be useful for end-user maintenance of the environment, and for easy updates of the environment source for subsequent releases of the image) Mar 06 02:13:09 we'd be talking a chroot with OE already checkedout and built Mar 06 02:13:21 rwhitby, could be kvm image easily enough too Mar 06 02:13:47 robtaylor: CoreDump|home might have a present for you Mar 06 02:13:52 whatever's easiest for users to get going fast Mar 06 02:13:55 rwhitby: oh? Mar 06 02:14:39 I'll let him talk to you about it :-) Mar 06 02:14:40 my setup is openmoko in a vserver. A copy of that is basically a chroot too. Mar 06 02:14:54 rob I have debian testing chroot running oe and compiling OM and SlugOS running here Mar 06 02:15:22 if you are not in a hurry I could probably upload it Mar 06 02:17:13 <[g2]> CoreDump|home / rwhitby any status on qemu version of OM ? Mar 06 02:17:55 [g2]: people were already build qemu images for the neo in the past Mar 06 02:18:28 <[g2]> CoreDump|home I'm wondering if that's in the current OE build Mar 06 02:18:43 * rwhitby goes to lunch Mar 06 02:18:44 <[g2]> i.e. not already folded into the borg yet Mar 06 02:19:09 <[g2]> rwhitby have a good lunch Mar 06 02:19:54 [g2]: I have not looked into qemu yet I'm afraid. As koen|away nicely put it: Running OM on an emulator is rather pointless (as OM can be compiled for x86) Mar 06 02:21:29 <[g2]> CoreDump|home it depends on whether one is trying to debug the target or the x86 environment. Mar 06 02:22:10 koen|away: So maybe we get the cool "lunchbox" box after all? "* Carrying Case" Mar 06 02:22:31 [g2], you can build for a qemuarm MACHINE in OM/OE easily enough Mar 06 02:22:46 there was a rather insightful email on the mailinglist about emulators and developing stuff Mar 06 02:25:40 pjz: cool Mar 06 02:26:15 Clint: so send that to whoever :) Mar 06 02:27:58 * Psi reads new announcment email Mar 06 02:28:14 well. new to me, only just checked my email :P Mar 06 02:30:12 Psi: http://pastebin.ca/382747 Mar 06 02:30:59 so it looks like the bluez-libs got upgraded on the source site, thereby breaking the build; what do folk do when this happens? it's got to be fairly common Mar 06 02:31:25 rwhitby, nice Mar 06 02:32:02 CoreDump|home: wow, brilliant :) Mar 06 02:32:39 hehe must be the first-time-ever any cellphone company shipped tools with the product so people could take it apart :P Mar 06 02:33:02 not a product yet Mar 06 02:33:08 true Mar 06 02:33:36 but people are still going to want to add things to the phone even when it is a product Mar 06 02:33:46 has anyone seen the phone in person? Mar 06 02:33:55 CoreDump|home: no hurry at all, btw Mar 06 02:34:13 mitcheloc: sure. Mar 06 02:34:15 obviously not everyone though Mar 06 02:34:34 robtaylor: ok, I'll let you know when the upload is done Mar 06 02:34:44 i was just wondering, i saw it last week Mar 06 02:35:17 interesting, they shipped a 128mb sdcard instead of 512mb Mar 06 02:35:39 not that it matters, id imagine everyone will be going and buying a 2gb anyway :P Mar 06 02:36:06 CoreDump|home: rock :) Mar 06 02:36:07 anyone who wants more than 128 i mean Mar 06 02:38:21 jebba: libx11-X11R7.1-1.0.1 failed for me too - will debug later Mar 06 02:38:44 ok. glad i can shirk that one ;) Mar 06 02:44:15 how do I find a recipe to deal with bluze 3.9 instead of 3.4 ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 06 02:59:56 2007