**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 06 02:59:56 2007 Mar 06 03:05:28 have you seen http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ChangeLog ? Mar 06 03:07:18 which time zone is LaF0rge in, since he's already writing March 8 -- or perhaps he's just writing the changelog before doing the actual changes? ;-) Mar 06 03:08:01 ... minor details, i know :) Mar 06 03:44:50 based on http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-March/000006.html Mar 06 03:44:55 counter Mar 06 03:44:55 P1: 3 weeks, 5 days 08:15:05 (26.344 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (479) Mar 06 03:44:56 counter? Mar 06 03:44:56 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 5 days 08:15:03 (26.344 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 3 days (194.344 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (480) Mar 06 03:46:21 (moved P1 estimate 5 days sooner than previous one and reduced uncertainty from +-10 to +-7) Mar 06 03:46:46 this is sample quantity though... Mar 06 04:08:41 when can we start to preorder for phase 1? Mar 06 04:11:32 jipi: dunno Mar 06 04:11:48 1-3 weeks from now? (wild guess) Mar 06 04:12:32 aloril: thanks Mar 06 04:13:42 phase 1 == september mass distrobution phase? Mar 06 04:15:51 kmeyer: that is Phase 2 Mar 06 04:16:17 oh, whoop Mar 06 04:16:18 s Mar 06 04:17:15 from mail linked above: "We have finalized the next revision called GTA01Bv4, which we expect to Mar 06 04:17:15 be available in sample quantities roughly at the end of the month. Mar 06 04:17:15 Let's hope this time we got everything right and can immediately proceed Mar 06 04:17:15 to producing larger quantities." Mar 06 04:18:06 ==Phase 1 Mar 06 04:21:28 jipi: note that I have no access to internal information, just making 'sensible' guess ;-) Mar 06 04:22:30 (lower limit: maybe want to have P0 out so reviews, upper limit: closer to availability is not that much pre-order) Mar 06 04:22:55 but I guess real reason for pre-order not being available is that they aren't yet sure when they can deliver Mar 06 04:48:55 hopefully the next spin'll work out of the box! Mar 06 05:00:06 this was already known, but "...and of course the OpenMoko phone being shown. I forgot about the first two and there wasn’t anymore room in the rather small auditorium, since everyone wanted to see the Neo1973." from http://www.kjoller.eu/?p=10 Mar 06 05:00:14 (FOSDEM 2007) Mar 06 05:02:06 (in case you haven't followed http://planet.openmoko.org : http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/03/05/my-neo1973-has-been-sent/ ) Mar 06 05:02:23 other new link from there was already pasted by koen here earlier Mar 06 05:05:36 * aloril wonders if he should start page that would be kind of both irc and blog: ie.. 1-3 line updates frequently Mar 06 05:06:12 a bit like doing here at IRC, but a bit more 'permanent', but more discussion like than blog Mar 06 05:14:55 openmoko mentioned among predictions: http://www.todaysten.com/2007/03/top-10-predication-of-new-uses-for-your.html Mar 06 05:21:32 Hmm still "3/6/2007 7:28 am Arrived at DHL facility. Singapore, Singapore" Mar 06 05:21:35 aloril: interesting :) even second place! Mar 06 05:24:04 * aloril is interested on all updates on shipping Mar 06 05:24:33 pjz: did you figure it out? Mar 06 05:44:04 rwhitby, you are gonna be pulling your hair out if you login and it says "3/7/2007 9:28 am Package Stolen!. Singapore Police, Singapore" :P Mar 06 05:44:40 you bet! Mar 06 05:45:21 once I was getting a package shipped to me by dhl, and it kept saying that Mar 06 05:45:23 it's been in singapore for over 5 hours. Mar 06 05:45:26 and then the package just arrived Mar 06 05:45:37 and I checked the website and it still said that Mar 06 05:45:44 after I had the package in my hand Mar 06 05:45:46 I hope they are just waiting for an overnight direct flight from singapore to adelaide. Mar 06 05:45:47 hehe Mar 06 05:46:02 (rather than going through sydney) Mar 06 05:46:21 mine was stuck in the sydney one Mar 06 05:46:22 heh Mar 06 05:46:29 but I am in sydney Mar 06 05:46:59 do we know what the final neo will sell for? Mar 06 05:47:05 yeah, the local office I can understand, cause the courier downloads the results at the end of the run probably. Mar 06 05:47:12 or even a rough idea Mar 06 05:47:59 rwhitby: they could have said "despatched to courier" Mar 06 05:48:00 or something Mar 06 05:48:06 so I could expect a courier Mar 06 05:48:17 yeah Mar 06 05:49:49 would be cool to put a camera + roaming cellphone into a cardboard box and send it around the world. So you could browse to its web address and view what it sees at any time Mar 06 05:52:20 expensive, but cool Mar 06 05:53:38 you could start up a website thing, explain the camera idea, and ask for people to volunteer to receive the package and post it to the next person Mar 06 05:53:42 probably illegal due to rf laws while on the airplanes Mar 06 05:53:47 so the idea is, you send it to one person Mar 06 05:53:57 and they send it to another person somewhere in the world Mar 06 05:53:59 and so on Mar 06 05:54:12 and each person can show things with the camera Mar 06 05:54:14 or whatever Mar 06 05:54:16 that could work Mar 06 05:55:20 you would want a camera on all 6 sides so you can always see out no matter how they pack the box Mar 06 05:59:35 I don't think you're going to see much while it's in transit Mar 06 06:00:46 night vision cameras :P Mar 06 06:01:05 no, I mean, if it's inside a courier truck, or a plane, or whatever Mar 06 06:01:27 with gps you could get a nice readout of exactly where the box is Mar 06 06:01:56 there are two major problems to this idea Mar 06 06:02:19 1) what sort of phone or phones do you use to guarantee connectivity and sufficient bandwidth everywhere Mar 06 06:02:38 and I just forgot what 2 was Mar 06 06:02:40 hang on Mar 06 06:02:52 right Mar 06 06:02:52 so Mar 06 06:02:58 2) the cost of the phone service Mar 06 06:03:38 and 3) there will be laws as to what you can post Mar 06 06:03:40 would gsm (thus an openmoko) phone be sufficient? Mar 06 06:03:42 yeah Mar 06 06:03:45 well Mar 06 06:03:47 im sure anything emitting rf would be bad Mar 06 06:04:54 oh, and power Mar 06 06:05:06 though I guess you'd have a big batter pack or something Mar 06 06:05:16 there might be laws against shipping battery packs which are active Mar 06 06:05:18 heh Mar 06 06:05:18 dont think power would be too much of a problem Mar 06 06:05:27 it would be picked up as a bomb most likely Mar 06 06:05:31 yeah Mar 06 06:18:25 more accurate tracking: bundle phone with actual shipping Mar 06 06:19:45 might actually become common once phones get enough cheap Mar 06 06:32:14 counter Mar 06 06:32:14 P1: 3 weeks, 5 days 05:27:45 (26.228 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (481) Mar 06 06:32:26 aloril, more likely some sort of rfid tag on every item and they just put sensors at all the points along the way and the package just has to come close to it to be registered Mar 06 06:34:00 so you would know in realtime where any package is because there would be a rfid receiver in the warehouse which would know what boxes are there Mar 06 06:34:15 same with the vans etc.. Mar 06 06:52:45 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r44 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added fallback option for OE.mtn.bz2 download if monotone version is not yet supported. Mar 06 07:18:53 moin @ll Mar 06 07:30:06 openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1252 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Complete changing layout when user push the "changer" button. Mar 06 07:32:55 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1253 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-taskmanager/ (13 files in 2 dirs): update licenses Mar 06 07:40:14 * sixfeet ♫ Disturbed - Liberate Mar 06 07:40:25 tag denis^da Mar 06 07:45:54 guten morgen ;) sixfeet Mar 06 07:46:30 bist ja auch ständig hier *g* .. warteste auch auf den release? Mar 06 07:46:39 counter Mar 06 07:46:39 P1: 3 weeks, 5 days 04:13:20 (26.176 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (482) Mar 06 07:47:12 when we buy the new phone and if there is hardware failure or ehnacement after one month, will that will be replaced? Mar 06 07:51:36 sumasuma, 2 years warranty Mar 06 07:54:03 ERROR: Nothing provides dependency openmoko-devel-image Mar 06 07:54:03 make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 Mar 06 07:54:08 how to fix it? Mar 06 07:57:22 Never seen that one Mar 06 08:04:16 Readon: Without phone you are just working with software alone ? Mar 06 08:05:10 no, i am building it. Mar 06 08:05:45 building ? the phone ? or the kernel image ? Mar 06 08:09:04 the whole image Mar 06 08:09:10 all of it Mar 06 08:17:06 sixfeet, yeah I'm always here. But it is just the autojoin :). When I start working I am automatically here. Mar 06 08:18:08 denis^da, hehe so you are in an office Mar 06 08:18:38 most traffic in the job is caused by privat things Mar 06 08:21:17 no no really I am at home but working at home for university at the moment, sixfeet Mar 06 08:21:21 +t Mar 06 08:21:39 so it's my traffic :D Mar 06 08:21:59 ahh ok ... my job was to limit it (admin) gg Mar 06 09:12:48 openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1254 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/src/ (7 files): Mar 06 09:12:48 openmoko: The background, changer ground and pictures of each keys only save Mar 06 09:12:48 openmoko: as file name in the memory. They will be created when need, and Mar 06 09:12:48 openmoko: will be free after using. Mar 06 09:15:28 openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1255 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/main.c: Make sure messages will only have one instance in memory. Mar 06 09:34:59 still "3/6/2007 7:28 am Arrived at DHL facility. Singapore, Singapore" :-( Mar 06 09:35:24 rwhitby: mine is still in HongKong Mar 06 09:36:25 10 hours in Singapore so far ... Mar 06 09:37:15 mine departed hong kong Mar 06 09:38:25 mine departed hk 15 hours ago, and arrived at sing 10 hours ago Mar 06 09:38:37 March 06, 2007 10:29 Amsterdam - Netherlands, The Processed for clearance at Amsterdam - Netherlands, The Mar 06 09:38:43 March 06, 2007 03:55 Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong Departed from DHL facility in Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong Mar 06 09:38:44 only 150km away now :) Mar 06 09:38:54 No! Mar 06 09:39:08 Mine is still in depart facility Hong Kong Mar 06 09:39:18 Which probably means still in the air Mar 06 09:39:22 I hope that they do not want for plane HK -> PoznaÅ„ ;D Mar 06 09:39:48 alphaone: mine arrived in .nl only 20 minutes ago Mar 06 09:39:55 when I ordered zaurus it went to Amsterdam, then Frankfurt, then somewhere else in Germany, then London, then Edinburgh :-) Mar 06 09:40:28 koen: Well, I'll have to be a little more patient Mar 06 09:40:46 * XorA will just have to play with phase -1 a little longer Mar 06 09:45:56 N-button mouse using touch screen: put finger down, tap with another at any direction, direction defines 'button' Mar 06 09:46:13 (single touch screen should be able to detect sudden jump from and back) Mar 06 09:48:11 aloril, you are on to something good there, that should really be possible Mar 06 09:49:39 actually, not only tap with second finger, also could do gestures: select directly entry from right mouse button menu Mar 06 09:50:41 the different mouse buttons paradigm is a bit lost on touchscreens Mar 06 09:50:55 and OE patches gtk to use tap&hold for RMB Mar 06 09:52:12 koen: ah, OK, though tap, add another finger to right might be faster than tap&hold? this needs experimenting though Mar 06 09:52:59 that needs to hands Mar 06 09:53:15 and on a 2.8 inch screen that will suck Mar 06 09:54:01 NOTE: Running task 17 of 2584 (ID: 1935, /home/hrw/devel/oe/org.openembedded/packages/m4/m4-native_1.4.4.bb, do_fetch) Mar 06 09:54:10 yeah, 2 hands, no thumb only usage then Mar 06 09:54:19 openmoko-image has long list of tasks to do... Mar 06 09:54:37 aloril: this phone is too small for two hands Mar 06 09:55:10 hrw: yes, I meant you need to hold phone with one hand and do 2 finger stuff with another Mar 06 09:55:51 actually maybe possible to use one hand only and 2 finger, but probably too cumbersome Mar 06 09:57:17 its possible to use one hand and 2 fingers for a lot of things :P Mar 06 10:17:01 I'm booooooooooooooooooooooooooooored. Mar 06 10:19:32 Stephmw: search for a nice open source project that needs help ;) Mar 06 10:43:19 florian: meh, wouldn't be able to work on it from work :( Mar 06 10:44:16 Stephmw: too bad... Mar 06 10:44:37 Stephmw: hum, but why... you can use irc so why ot coding? Mar 06 10:51:48 florian: because I code for a living ;) Mar 06 10:52:06 * Stephmw points to the various NDA tatoos Mar 06 10:52:35 Stephmw: well... that does not neccesarily means to have a conflict there :-) Mar 06 10:52:48 * florian points at himself Mar 06 10:53:45 I'm also a contractor ;) Mar 06 10:54:13 I don't think my current client would be all that happy if I started hacking on someone else's stuff while being paid for something else... Mar 06 10:54:16 * Stephmw goes to ask Mar 06 10:54:30 :-) Mar 06 10:55:15 it's bad enough I can't start hacking on Sun's open sourced J2ME :( Mar 06 11:07:00 * rwhitby builds from mokomakefile on the lab machine at work, ready for hooking up the debug board tomorrow ... Mar 06 11:09:25 someone here know exim4? Mar 06 11:09:57 hrw: nope, I always replace it with postfix ;-) Mar 06 11:10:25 * XorA shudders at exim4 Mar 06 11:10:41 rwhitby: the problem is that I need MTA which wil have local delivery and transport everything outside via other smtp/ssl with smtp auth Mar 06 11:10:56 hrw: postfix can do that Mar 06 11:11:02 hrw: as can courier Mar 06 11:11:47 as can exim4 ;) Mar 06 11:12:50 but the ubuntu installation configured it for me, so i wont be of much help Mar 06 11:13:14 years ago i configured it on debian, and all i remember is that i didn't like it Mar 06 11:13:23 XorA: as exim and other MTAs Mar 06 11:13:39 hrw: then whats the problem? Mar 06 11:14:30 XorA: crap docs, lack of good debug output etc Mar 06 11:15:46 hrw: so switch to postfix which has good docs and good debug output :-) Mar 06 11:17:19 2007-03-06 12:17:21 1HOXfS-0002kb-SO Completed Mar 06 11:17:40 fixed finally Mar 06 11:35:04 Okay, I should stop staring at the DHL tracking page and start working Mar 06 11:35:25 haha Mar 06 11:35:46 So, lets play a game of "Where's Moko" :-) Mar 06 11:35:59 anyone got theirs yet or is everyone still a day or two away? Mar 06 11:36:04 still in hong kong Mar 06 11:36:16 in flight Mar 06 11:36:16 12 hours there so far ... Mar 06 11:36:53 my only hope is that they are waiting for the overnight commercial passenger flights direct to adelaide which leave hk about 23:00 Mar 06 11:37:00 8:09 pm Clearance processing complete. San Francisco, CA Mar 06 11:37:08 The Moko should be turned on. Then it could send me it's position :-) Mar 06 11:37:18 s/it's/its/ Mar 06 11:37:19 alphaone meant: The Moko should be turned on. Then it could send me its position :-) Mar 06 11:37:20 that was the only thing that scared me. Mar 06 11:37:40 looks like it made it through in one piece Mar 06 11:38:01 alphaone: I suspect it won't have the gpsd :( Mar 06 11:38:02 going to call dhl now and find out what (if any) duty is due Mar 06 11:38:14 koen right.. Mar 06 11:38:33 3/6/2007 3:55 am Depart Facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong Mar 06 11:38:37 ... Mar 06 11:39:12 someone should googlemap the route each Neo taks Mar 06 11:40:24 and yay for dhl not getting their timezones right Mar 06 11:40:46 What timezone is that anyway? Mar 06 11:40:48 Local? Mar 06 11:40:57 dunno, they are not saying Mar 06 11:41:03 I've been assuming they are all local times Mar 06 11:41:08 (like airline flights) Mar 06 11:41:21 but: now == 3/6/2007, 3:39:14 am pt. Mar 06 11:41:31 "Times given are local to the service area in which the shipment checkpoint is recorded. " Mar 06 11:41:47 They don't know about duty yet - they'll send me an invoice if any is due in a few days. Mar 06 11:42:03 but the phone is due at my door within 17 hours. Mar 06 11:42:29 noidd: Cool .-) Mar 06 11:42:38 FIC did 2 day delivery Mar 06 11:42:41 FIC++ Mar 06 11:42:42 are you camped out on your front yard with a laptop and a sleeping bag waiting for it :P ? Mar 06 11:42:56 mine's being delivered at work :-) Mar 06 11:43:16 my wife is going to drive it to work for me tomorrow lunchtime Mar 06 11:43:21 she just doesn't know it yet :-D Mar 06 11:43:26 haha Mar 06 11:43:26 :) Mar 06 11:43:32 * rwhitby goes to bed, to do the moko dream. Mar 06 11:43:42 if I lived in SF I could just go and pick it up Mar 06 11:43:59 I would say "Road Trip!" but its 4500 miles :-P Mar 06 11:44:16 i wonder if anyone actually did pick it up from FIC Mar 06 11:44:52 I have to be honest, I've been toying with the idea of going to .tw on vacation the last few weeks ;-) Mar 06 11:44:56 I wanna know if we get the cool lunchbox ;) Mar 06 11:45:09 I don't think so. Mar 06 11:45:27 did anyone else notice that the cool lunchbox looks suspiciously like a suitcase nuke Mar 06 11:45:40 * Carrying Case Mar 06 11:45:48 noidd: hehe Mar 06 11:45:53 noidd: that's ok, you can't board a plane atm anyway Mar 06 11:46:56 oh, you heard about my little misunderstanding at the airport then :-P Mar 06 11:47:25 I'd only heard about an expired passport... is there more to the story? ;) Mar 06 11:47:40 Oh, forget I mentioned anything ;-D Mar 06 11:48:37 confiscated? Mar 06 11:48:38 noidd: ? Mar 06 11:48:58 I accidentally brought a banned item into the secured area and got caught Mar 06 11:49:16 and, to give you an idea of scale. Mar 06 11:49:32 I thought I was going to make international news and end up at camp gitmo Mar 06 11:49:41 noidd: lol Mar 06 11:49:52 noidd: Ouch Mar 06 11:49:58 What item? Mar 06 11:50:03 wth did you carry? Mar 06 11:50:03 A sharp pencil? Mar 06 11:50:09 No, something serious Mar 06 11:50:12 Water bottle Mar 06 11:50:12 a nail clipper? Mar 06 11:50:20 dope? Mar 06 11:50:24 No. Mar 06 11:50:27 laptop battery? Mar 06 11:50:41 Let me put it this way. Mar 06 11:50:43 noidd: ok, I'm out of witty ideas Mar 06 11:50:51 Sony laptop battery :-) Mar 06 11:50:58 my laptop bag doubles as a (gun) range bag Mar 06 11:51:05 LOL Mar 06 11:51:07 HEHE Mar 06 11:51:12 oh Mar 06 11:51:16 noidd: forgot the thing was in there? Mar 06 11:51:17 and I hadn't completely emptied it. Mar 06 11:51:31 weapon or ammo? Mar 06 11:51:40 noidd: don't they x-ray stuff before entering the secure area in the US? Mar 06 11:51:41 Wasn't the gun, just ammo Mar 06 11:51:50 No constitutional right to defend yourself at the airport? Mar 06 11:51:51 yeah they did - and that's where they caught it. Mar 06 11:52:33 "Deep cavity search" Mar 06 11:52:41 alphaone: US constitution is all about property rights. Mar 06 11:52:50 And you live to tell. Mar 06 11:53:00 airport property owner says no fun things, then no fun things. Mar 06 11:53:09 I never felt so sick in my life Mar 06 11:53:10 hehe i once went to Australia forgetting i had about a teaspoon of gunpowder wrapped up in my wallet Mar 06 11:53:10 heh Mar 06 11:53:15 I thought that it was the end of my life. Mar 06 11:53:25 didnt get caught though Mar 06 11:53:27 =D Mar 06 11:54:12 If I was in any other part of the US other than the south I would have been history Mar 06 11:54:19 well, I know _someone_ who will tripple-check his bags before entering an aitport now Mar 06 11:54:26 noidd: How long did it take you to convince them you didn't want to capture the plane? Mar 06 11:54:28 bah in the EO even water is banned, just in case all 500 passengers bring some and flood the cockpit Mar 06 11:54:34 s/EO/EU/ Mar 06 11:54:34 XorA meant: bah in the EU even water is banned, just in case all 500 passengers bring some and flood the cockpit Mar 06 11:54:34 I buy a new set of bags every time I travel :-P Mar 06 11:55:00 XorA: that's just on US routes, isn't it? Mar 06 11:55:05 alphaone: about 20 mins, they they confiscated the ammo and mailed the magazine back to me in the post. Mar 06 11:55:13 XorA: Well, I think they are afraid of water bombs :-) Mar 06 11:55:29 moo_tang_clan: no, we are limited to 100ml bottles and only the number which will fit in a 1L plastic bag Mar 06 11:55:39 the funny thing: Fly to US: unlock your bags Mar 06 11:55:48 Fly to anywhere else: lock your bags Mar 06 11:55:50 some people just tick every box on the declaration form because they cant be 100% sure its not in their bag :P Mar 06 11:55:52 I think they could tell by the way I was vomiting that I was telling the truth Mar 06 11:55:53 a well placed waterbomb could probably bring a plane down =) Mar 06 11:56:02 noidd: Wow. I thought you'd never see these things again Mar 06 11:56:12 the wierdest thing is buy 1L vodka bottle inside secured area, take into bog, cut into glass knife Mar 06 11:56:20 someone may have teleported a small hamster into my bag, better tick that box Mar 06 11:56:45 The security people were awesome tho. Thorough, but awesome. Mar 06 11:57:11 I've never seen so many heavily armed police arive so quickly in my life tho Mar 06 11:57:17 hehe Mar 06 11:57:33 They kept asking "Where's the other half of this" Mar 06 11:57:54 noidd: what a day huh? hehe Mar 06 11:57:57 I kept saying its at home in the safe, I know that for sure although right about now I want to go home and double check!" Mar 06 11:58:06 and you said, "where i thought this half was, at home" Mar 06 11:58:08 I'll never forget it. Mar 06 11:58:37 * XorA knew an american who flew with a handgun from USA to UK and managed to totally avoid customs Mar 06 11:58:49 noidd: perhaps get a separate range bag now? :) Mar 06 11:58:56 Did he fly it back? Mar 06 11:58:56 XorA: private flight? Mar 06 11:59:27 Stephmw: no, she landed in london then connected with edin, and between the two airports they forgot to send the foreigners through customs/passport control Mar 06 11:59:54 Well, I'm a Brit who moved to the US and honestly, I'm never moving back. Mar 06 12:00:27 noidd: that that you could ATM HEHE Mar 06 12:00:38 s/that/not Mar 06 12:00:40 I love it here, everyone in the South is so friendly and heavily armed. Mar 06 12:00:44 I feel so comfortable here. Mar 06 12:01:09 * XorA chuckles Mar 06 12:01:18 There is going to be another civil war in the US btw, I really believe that. Mar 06 12:01:36 it may be 20 years away, but you can feel it. Mar 06 12:01:48 and its going to be North vs South again Mar 06 12:01:55 with armed bears? Mar 06 12:02:08 except this time the midwest will join the South and CA will just get stoned. Mar 06 12:02:37 noidd: is that twenty years with or without hillary? Mar 06 12:02:54 that will never happen Mar 06 12:02:59 no way on earth Mar 06 12:03:10 She is too polarizing. Mar 06 12:03:27 they'll vote for a communist black lesbian before they vote for hillary. Mar 06 12:03:49 a communist black lesbian named Mohummed Mar 06 12:04:23 heh Mar 06 12:04:53 ok, I gotta go to work Mar 06 12:05:02 and keep hitting Reload on the dhl page :-) Mar 06 12:05:16 its 1am here, im going to bed Mar 06 12:05:17 * Psi is away: sleep Mar 06 12:05:24 later man Mar 06 12:05:28 later Mar 06 12:12:18 noidd: konqueror has plugin to do autorefresh ;D Mar 06 12:19:26 counter Mar 06 12:19:26 P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 23:40:33 (25.986 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (483) Mar 06 12:19:49 Huh, has P1 been timewarped?! Mar 06 12:24:19 * XorA takes a jump to the left Mar 06 12:26:46 counter doesn't say no preorder - does this mean... ? Mar 06 12:27:54 counter? Mar 06 12:27:54 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 4 days 23:32:05 (25.981 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 2 days (193.981 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (484) Mar 06 12:28:09 oh Mar 06 12:34:12 "With delivery courier" :D Mar 06 12:40:15 Elrond: update counter based on http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-March/000006.html Mar 06 12:40:27 s/update/updated Mar 06 12:40:33 counter Mar 06 12:40:33 P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 23:19:26 (25.972 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (485) Mar 06 12:40:43 (earlier today, not now ;-) Mar 06 12:44:17 aloril - Hmm, reading that mail, it seems 2007-03-31 is the date for "v4 in sample quantities"? Mar 06 12:45:36 Elrond: yes, see above "counter?" incantation ;-) Mar 06 12:49:49 * aloril wonders if adding message to front of counter would be useful (by anybody in channel (just prefix by however added it)) Mar 06 12:50:01 then anybody could 'update' counter Mar 06 12:50:32 example: pre-orders become available: add url Mar 06 12:52:38 apt: pre-orders Mar 06 12:54:14 of course topic can be updated ;-) Mar 06 12:55:19 ~neo1973 Mar 06 12:56:55 apt: feed itself Mar 06 13:09:48 added it: Mar 06 13:10:04 counter_msg test message foo://bar Mar 06 13:10:04 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: test message foo://bar) Mar 06 13:10:09 counter Mar 06 13:10:09 (aloril: test message foo://bar) P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 22:49:51 (25.951 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (486) Mar 06 13:10:16 counter_msg Mar 06 13:10:16 aloril changed counter prefix message to Mar 06 13:10:18 counter Mar 06 13:10:18 P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 22:49:42 (25.951 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (487) Mar 06 13:22:32 counter? Mar 06 13:22:32 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 4 days 22:37:27 (25.943 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 2 days (193.943 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (488) Mar 06 13:23:09 hmh, have the P0 guys already got their devices? Mar 06 13:23:43 Hadaka: we are all desperately watching DHL tracking website Mar 06 13:23:50 Hadaka: closest is "2007-03-06 13:42:03 but the phone is due at my door within 17 hours. Mar 06 13:23:50 " Mar 06 13:24:16 <2h ago Mar 06 13:24:54 please do a lot of photos and videos of the device in action :) Mar 06 13:25:01 -do +take Mar 06 13:25:27 counter_msg P0: first device arriving < 1d Mar 06 13:25:27 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: first device arriving < 1d) Mar 06 13:25:35 * SpeedEvil wonders how he might obtain one of the 14. Mar 06 13:25:52 * SpeedEvil will prolly just wait for P1. Mar 06 13:26:18 SpeedEvil: P1 will rock Mar 06 13:26:20 with some luck my neo will be here in <1h Mar 06 13:26:36 koen: on the van then? Mar 06 13:26:51 XorA: yep, since 81 minutes ago :) Mar 06 13:26:52 * SpeedEvil logs off the wireless internet connection, and goes back to hiding under a bush with a balaclava on. Mar 06 13:27:00 koen: sorted Mar 06 13:27:20 counter_msg P0: with some luck my neo will be here in <1 Mar 06 13:27:20 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: with some luck my neo will be here in <1) Mar 06 13:27:29 counter_msg P0: with some luck my neo will be here in <1h Mar 06 13:27:29 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: with some luck my neo will be here in <1h) Mar 06 13:27:50 everyone, KOEN is the guy to mug :-D Mar 06 13:27:59 hehe Mar 06 13:28:09 koen: Your mother was calling me. You have to go on a long ride....now ;) Mar 06 13:28:11 P0 Mar 06 13:28:35 p0wned Mar 06 13:28:45 koen: Yeah, come visit Brunswick :-) Mar 06 13:29:42 whee! rock on guys, soon the sweetness beings Mar 06 13:29:44 mine still seems to be in the air Mar 06 13:30:19 that will make my series of phones P-2 P-1 P0 :-D Mar 06 13:30:29 heh Mar 06 13:30:46 Where on the wiki would a 'things for people with hardware to do' be appropriate? I.E. Run this binary with profiling, take a zoomed picture of the GPS antenna, ... Mar 06 13:31:29 Wishlist:P0_Review ? Mar 06 13:31:46 (doesn't exists at the moment) Mar 06 13:32:44 Sounds reasonable. Mar 06 13:39:17 koen - No issues with customs? Mar 06 13:40:05 SpeedEvil - So you're going to play customs officer at koen's door? ;o) Mar 06 13:41:55 I'm waiting for P1 on reflection. Mar 06 13:42:51 SpeedEvil - So why are you still hiding under a bush? ;o) Mar 06 13:43:39 Delivery before noon tomorrow Mar 06 13:43:42 I'm stoked Mar 06 13:45:47 noidd: so you are second in the race currently Mar 06 13:49:21 try to get some sleep, guys :) Mar 06 14:01:40 koen: lucky bastard ;D Mar 06 14:02:20 mine is somewhere between hongkong and next place Mar 06 14:03:27 Maybe it wanted to go exploring and parachuted out of the plane? Mar 06 14:06:47 * koen clears throat Mar 06 14:06:51 NEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 06 14:06:53 inz - It was hacked by BT and escaped? ;) Mar 06 14:07:24 * CM listens Mar 06 14:08:23 koen: not arrived yet, no? Mar 06 14:08:27 shame. Mar 06 14:08:30 counter_msg P0: NEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 06 14:08:31 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: NEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Mar 06 14:09:26 who is first? Mar 06 14:10:15 noidd - koen tries to. But all neo-fanatics except us are waiting in front of his door ;o) Mar 06 14:10:18 noidd: sounds like koen's Neo arrived Mar 06 14:11:08 ooooooh Mar 06 14:11:13 a laser stylus Mar 06 14:11:22 :) Mar 06 14:11:40 so koen has one already? Mar 06 14:11:48 Allegedly. Mar 06 14:11:58 guaqua: definitely sounds like it ;-) Mar 06 14:12:13 bitch Mar 06 14:12:22 can you make a call with it, koen? :) Mar 06 14:12:33 wtf is a laser stylus Mar 06 14:12:36 np: Blondie - Hanging on the telephone. Mar 06 14:12:37 koen: I would love to see a piccy Mar 06 14:12:39 oh and can you make a picture of it Mar 06 14:12:47 It's a stylus, with a laser pointer in it. Mar 06 14:12:50 oh Mar 06 14:12:51 nice Mar 06 14:12:51 that's cool. Mar 06 14:12:55 but still no place to store it Mar 06 14:12:58 I don't know. Mar 06 14:13:04 It means it's quite large. Mar 06 14:13:28 and needs batteries Mar 06 14:13:57 koen: Sweeeet Mar 06 14:14:27 I guess koen has just logged off to play with his cool new toy Mar 06 14:14:35 I know I would have :-) Mar 06 14:14:50 * SpeedEvil waits for koen_neo to login. Mar 06 14:15:32 koen: Is it a green laser? :-) Mar 06 14:15:34 now we will see if it is droolproof Mar 06 14:15:42 lol Mar 06 14:16:05 maybe fic should ship a surgical mask with it Mar 06 14:16:05 Green lasers are considerably more expensive and current consuming. Mar 06 14:16:34 Blue lasers are just silly, as are violet. Mar 06 14:16:36 i want a laser that cuts stuff in my stylus ;) Mar 06 14:16:47 SpeedEvil: I know. Mar 06 14:17:44 Okay, so we have two uses until now: Laserpointer and stylus. Or did I miss anything? Mar 06 14:18:00 now if it can also write.... Mar 06 14:18:10 buz :-) Mar 06 14:18:29 i think i once saw a combo palm/pen/laserpointer Mar 06 14:18:52 and since you cant store it in the device anyway, it better be unsmall Mar 06 14:19:16 it better be unbreakable. Mar 06 14:19:46 like the one in naked gun Mar 06 14:19:53 unbreakable except when wet Mar 06 14:21:07 keon: did it arrive? Mar 06 14:21:26 http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412590339/ Mar 06 14:21:41 koen wins Mar 06 14:21:45 hehe Mar 06 14:21:46 Of course "unlosable" would also be cool. But I guess, they haven't yet found a way to add this attribute during production ;) Mar 06 14:21:57 koen: your neo arrived? Mar 06 14:22:02 Elrond: That's trivial. Mar 06 14:22:05 lets see it then Mar 06 14:22:07 And flickr is going down :-) Mar 06 14:22:09 Chain it to the user. Mar 06 14:22:43 prpplague: koen can't answer. He's too busy playing around and taking photos I guess :-) Mar 06 14:22:49 hehe Mar 06 14:23:12 the picture that you all want to see is uploading now Mar 06 14:23:16 koen: that an aquapad in your photos? Mar 06 14:24:01 I have no idea what an aquapad is Mar 06 14:24:36 its there Mar 06 14:24:39 ohh, shiny! Mar 06 14:24:49 http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ Mar 06 14:25:21 that's a big stylus. Mar 06 14:25:44 koen: the webpad from FIC Mar 06 14:26:00 koen: yea its a progear Mar 06 14:26:00 koen: whats the serial#? :-) Mar 06 14:26:02 are those real inear (think shure like) headphones? Mar 06 14:26:13 * stefan_schmidt realize that he already has such a stylus/pen combo Mar 06 14:26:19 exactly the same. :) Mar 06 14:26:20 counter_msg P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ Mar 06 14:26:20 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/) Mar 06 14:26:28 This looks soooo sweet Mar 06 14:26:47 if that is everything you get for 350$ this is really good value Mar 06 14:26:50 counter_msg P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ Mar 06 14:26:50 aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ ) Mar 06 14:26:52 usually you have to buy that stuff Mar 06 14:26:59 I definitely want the plectrum Mar 06 14:27:20 buz: debug board is not part of $350 Mar 06 14:27:23 the pen looks huge Mar 06 14:27:29 aloril: ah well yes Mar 06 14:27:31 but aside of that Mar 06 14:27:47 nice pic .. cool that we get black ones Mar 06 14:27:59 those little black thingies in the plastic bag are in ear pieces right? Mar 06 14:28:45 well, torx drive neither, etc.., but then 512MB instead of 128MB card (and probably some other differences) Mar 06 14:29:05 well but headset, pouch, lanyard... Mar 06 14:30:18 theres little dots in the pen case? batteries??? Mar 06 14:30:41 yeah Mar 06 14:30:59 so koen can the pen write on paper? Mar 06 14:31:06 buz: yes Mar 06 14:31:15 whoa neat Mar 06 14:31:16 twist left -> stylus, twist right -> pen Mar 06 14:31:16 Stylus/pen/light/laserpointer combo Mar 06 14:31:23 omg Mar 06 14:31:33 i can nearly forgive not being able to store it in the device ;) Mar 06 14:31:38 just realised due to a local strike I probably not get a P0 neo until Saturday Mar 06 14:31:50 XorA: Oh man, that sucks. Mar 06 14:32:02 XorA: Your new career as a mediator beckons. Mar 06 14:32:37 Now I can update two sites: DHL and koen's flickr stream Mar 06 14:32:49 noidd: I already have P-2, P-1 x 2 so not too upset Mar 06 14:34:22 That charger thing does not look like it will work in .de ;o) Mar 06 14:34:34 Elrond: just needs a hammer Mar 06 14:34:39 the P0's are for developers? Mar 06 14:34:49 yes Mar 06 14:34:49 looks us'ian Mar 06 14:35:06 Elrond: it's just a USB charger. Mar 06 14:35:27 which are 1$ on ebay Mar 06 14:35:33 plus 12$ shipping, of cours Mar 06 14:35:39 I'd recomment the 'swiss travel' charger. Mar 06 14:35:42 SpeedEvil: so will the hackers lunchbox still be available with later phases? Mar 06 14:35:45 US/EU/japan/... Mar 06 14:35:47 yes Mar 06 14:35:50 $200 more though Mar 06 14:36:04 * buz is swiss and has never heard of that Mar 06 14:36:40 SpeedEvil: yea thats pretty high Mar 06 14:37:05 http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/106335 Mar 06 14:37:42 The debug board for P1 will probably be different to the P0 one though. Exactly how is an interesting question. Mar 06 14:38:53 As with many 'swiss' products, I suspect the company has little to do with there. Mar 06 14:39:07 SpeedEvil: yea, i'd simply use my ft2232 based jtag board myself Mar 06 14:39:31 The connector may be a problem. Mar 06 14:39:41 However. Mar 06 14:39:50 For 99.99% of stuff, you don't need JTAG. Mar 06 14:40:10 99.9%. If you screw u-boot, you need it. Mar 06 14:40:17 True. Mar 06 14:40:25 Or you send it to someone with one. Mar 06 14:40:37 The main reason I want the debug board is for access to console over serial Mar 06 14:40:48 I just like having that seperate. Mar 06 14:40:54 What's wrong with usb-serial? Mar 06 14:41:09 going to be using usb for network Mar 06 14:41:22 noidd: serial over debug baord diables GSM. Just as a note. Mar 06 14:41:40 I have admin'd boxes over the net for 13 years... so usbnet/usbserial is fine. I just have to be careful not to touch u-boot ;) Mar 06 14:41:57 ... so I hope, they P1+ phones have a "no need to update"-u-boot. Mar 06 14:43:00 Oooh - Koen has pics of it on. Mar 06 14:43:28 koen: Nice pics! (The lens polishing worked.. ;)) Mar 06 14:43:38 SpeedEvil: its just an fpc connector right? Mar 06 14:43:44 Do the JTAG kit used with linksys-routers fit? Mar 06 14:43:44 Obitus: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 06 14:43:45 SpeedEvil: based on the photo koen posted Mar 06 14:44:06 Obitus: jtag is jtag, just gotta connect the wires Mar 06 14:44:06 yes, it's FPC Mar 06 14:44:29 It's detailed on the hardware disssasembly page on the wiki Mar 06 14:44:41 ok thanks, I'll go read that :) Mar 06 14:44:45 Obitus: only think is you have to make sure the voltage levels are the same, and in the case of the s3c2410 its 3.3v Mar 06 14:45:07 Obitus: my suggestion is if you don't have alot of jtag experience, buy the hackers lunchbox Mar 06 14:46:15 SpeedEvil: yea, when i finally get around to getting a neo, i plan to drop uboot and go with apex instead Mar 06 14:46:30 who wanted a shot of the gps antenna? Mar 06 14:47:13 That was an example. Mar 06 14:47:14 koen - SpeedEvil probably ;) Mar 06 14:47:16 I don't. Mar 06 14:47:17 S/N: 000176 Mar 06 14:47:34 koen, can you shoot the device while the ui is visisble ? Mar 06 14:47:42 I really want pics of the upper side of the case, from the inside :) Mar 06 14:47:56 Though only if you are dissasembling anyway. Mar 06 14:47:58 rob_w - http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412601697/ Mar 06 14:49:05 Stupid question: Is there any pic on the wiki, where I can see the aux(911) button? Mar 06 14:49:49 ok cool Mar 06 14:51:24 SpeedEvil: wish i could find a vendor that had that WM chip at a reasonable cost Mar 06 14:51:25 Elrond: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412598318/ in bottom corner is iirc 911 button Mar 06 14:52:34 looks mor like power Mar 06 14:52:38 Elrond: it's shown sort-of on one of the hardare dissasembly pages. Mar 06 14:53:50 alphaone - Yeah, I always see "the button next to usb". ;) Mar 06 14:54:06 Elrond: :-) Mar 06 14:55:06 koen, you killeds it! Mar 06 14:55:23 Who do you set the 911 number? Mar 06 14:55:35 s/Who/How/ Mar 06 14:55:36 CM meant: How do you set the 911 number? Mar 06 14:56:18 so font is in physical size similar to size 4 or size 5 on regular LCD? Mar 06 14:56:49 (about 1.5-2mm) Mar 06 14:56:59 Hm, is a physical 911 button required by law? Mar 06 14:57:31 Powerbook-2:~ koen$ cu -l /dev/cu.usbmodem00000001 -s 115200 Mar 06 14:57:31 Connected. Mar 06 14:57:31 In: usbtty Mar 06 14:57:32 Out: usbtty Mar 06 14:57:32 Err: usbtty Mar 06 14:57:32 GTA01Bv3 # Mar 06 14:58:50 koen: create new photoset from those pictures Mar 06 14:58:51 "neo1973 charger status" ;o) Mar 06 14:59:13 gah Mar 06 14:59:21 it suspends while being in uboot Mar 06 15:00:00 koen you have to shoot a video of the whole device :) Mar 06 15:00:53 hrw: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/sets/72157594573486523/ Mar 06 15:04:11 CM in gsm-land 112 is the emergency number, whereever you are Mar 06 15:06:47 amarsh04: Aha, thanks :) Mar 06 15:07:07 even in us ? Mar 06 15:07:18 updated http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:P0_Review (last item already has been practically answered) Mar 06 15:07:20 xkr47: I just checked on WP Mar 06 15:07:29 Yes, all GSM networks Mar 06 15:07:51 It's rerouted to the correct local emergency number Mar 06 15:11:22 (paper seems to have better resolution as black/white as excepted) XorA, koen: I wonder how does it compare in practice to paper? Mar 06 15:13:30 koen: do you have a SIM card to put in it ? Mar 06 15:14:54 not yet Mar 06 15:16:00 Date code: 20070207: yeah, seems like almost month delay because of cable Mar 06 15:16:14 that's a shame :/ Mar 06 15:16:54 koen - Any issues with customs? Mar 06 15:17:06 moo_tang_clan - That's "industry reality". Mar 06 15:17:09 Elrond: not that I know off Mar 06 15:17:23 * koen adds some more notes to http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/in/set-72157594573486523/ Mar 06 15:17:24 Elrond: oh, indeed. it's just a bit of bad luck, and it's a shame it happened. Mar 06 15:19:17 Ahh, those notess answer my "questions you wanted to ask, but didn't try"-section ;) Mar 06 15:19:44 koen - Nice. :-) Let's see, how customs in .de will work. ;) Mar 06 15:20:20 koen: can you get even closer image of screen? (including some text too) Mar 06 15:20:45 aloril: not in this light Mar 06 15:20:56 it will either be too blurry or too grainy Mar 06 15:21:03 Elixir-: They refer to engineering on the box. It should be fine. Mar 06 15:21:51 koen: ah, OK (so screen itself is not enough bright?) Mar 06 15:22:51 IMHO the lanyard has too many logos on it. Mar 06 15:22:52 aloril: to bright for the ambient light Mar 06 15:23:49 Eh, did the guitar pick and screwdriver came in the same package? Mar 06 15:24:06 koen: yes, getting screen and case at same time is hard, what about closeup of screen only? Mar 06 15:24:26 I'll try to get a shot after cooking and dinner Mar 06 15:24:37 Lumpio- - Yes. Mar 06 15:25:22 Lumpio- - But only for P0 people. Mar 06 15:26:02 koen: cool Mar 06 15:26:20 Once I get my phone and have verified I know how to reflash it I will put it online and let y'all ssh into it.\ Mar 06 15:26:52 oo Mar 06 15:27:11 But... but... I want a cool MAIKURO DORAIBAA too Mar 06 15:27:20 Nowait, I already have a T6 :I Mar 06 15:27:24 noidd: With a valid ISM card? :-) Mar 06 15:32:38 <-- getting home now. Mar 06 15:35:50 incidentally closeup of screen will give also answer to "how bright it is?" (by looking at Exif data) Mar 06 15:36:22 alph: sure Mar 06 15:36:32 :-D Mar 06 15:38:10 OMG Mar 06 15:38:12 http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-users/2007-March/000078.html Mar 06 15:38:25 this guy can't be serious Mar 06 15:38:57 about 120dpi (128x128 pixel) Nokia screen: can get about to about 15x15 pixels in image for each screen pixel (f/3.7, 1/10s, ISO 100) Mar 06 15:41:45 HP L1940T LCD is 1/50s Mar 06 15:42:19 koen: people dont read errors they just report them Mar 06 15:44:25 that mail is awesome btw :-) Mar 06 15:45:34 aloril: picture of screen coming up Mar 06 15:45:41 cool, congrats on the Neo recipients :) Mar 06 15:46:34 :)) Mar 06 15:47:26 guitar pick ?--) Mar 06 15:47:27 * XorA is still waiting for his to be booked in somewhere in the EU Mar 06 15:47:51 xkr47: for opening the case, I think. Mar 06 15:48:11 it's in the message Mar 06 15:48:33 i demand openmoko drumsticks ;-) Mar 06 15:48:36 * koen hints people to http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/phase-0-is-shipping Mar 06 15:51:28 aloril: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412663954/ Mar 06 15:54:30 koen: hrm... obviously there are no direct cargo flights to germany... my one is in Hongkong Mar 06 15:57:55 koen: thanks, quite nice screen! Mar 06 15:59:41 (also about same brightness as HP L1940T screen and about 4x more bright than this screen in older Nokia phone) Mar 06 16:15:39 koen: the DPI on the screen is nice, huh. Mar 06 16:15:52 it is Mar 06 16:16:07 although the new casing made a bigger impression Mar 06 16:16:21 you like it? I like the orange. Mar 06 16:16:45 did you get one with the new 'soft' plastic? Mar 06 16:17:18 guess not, I just have the orange one you've probably seen pics of. Mar 06 16:17:37 I think we didn't ask for first-round p0 phones 'cause we can do plenty with the orange until fully-working hardware appears. Mar 06 16:17:37 yeah, I handled one of those at fosdem Mar 06 16:18:52 * XorA has the red one Mar 06 16:20:29 the code is total and utter bullshit. It definitely falls into the Mar 06 16:20:29 category of "lets blindly write code without any reference to what is Mar 06 16:20:29 actually required" and "test? what's that? you must be mad, I don't Mar 06 16:20:29 test the code I write!" Mar 06 16:20:34 * XorA chuckles at RMK Mar 06 16:21:33 * stefan_schmidt moves mutt to a-l-k Mar 06 16:22:06 hi Mar 06 16:22:34 on black and white printer 'clearly' wins, but on color photos might be comparable (and maybe on some printers worse)? Mar 06 16:27:18 Am I missing like... a huge block of context here? ;) Mar 06 16:28:56 counter Mar 06 16:28:56 (aloril: P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ ) P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 19:31:04 (25.813 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (489) Mar 06 16:53:11 (Sean gave talk here) "F2C: Freedom to Connect Day One Highlights": http://blogs.nmss.com/communications/2007/03/f2c_freedom_to_.html Mar 06 17:20:35 ohh mine is still in Hong Kong Mar 06 17:21:58 same here :) Mar 06 17:22:06 mine isn't even sent. Mar 06 17:22:18 * pH5 forgot to answer that mail in time Mar 06 17:22:24 pH5, thats bad Mar 06 17:26:16 rob_w: records aren't always updated Mar 06 17:26:42 rob_w: I have received a lens... 4 weeks ago, but the courier still says it's in transit over the US somewhere Mar 06 17:27:22 the "unboxed" photo shows the phone's motherboard outside of the phone. does it come with "some assembly required"? Mar 06 17:27:51 don-o: disassembly tools provided in package Mar 06 17:27:51 oh nm, the photo notes show it as the 'debug board' Mar 06 17:28:17 guitar pic? :) Mar 06 17:28:36 No, the first pics show it cased. Mar 06 17:28:41 DHL... my package nearly 22h ago left hongkong and still nowhere.... Mar 06 17:29:15 drat Mar 06 17:29:21 dfu-util doesn't work on sx Mar 06 17:29:30 * koen stabs 'Bus error' Mar 06 17:30:33 Stephmw, hehe nice Mar 06 17:31:27 * koen tries to locate a linux box Mar 06 17:32:08 koen: where is your phone? Mar 06 17:32:16 next to my OSX laptop Mar 06 17:32:30 so you received it? Mar 06 17:32:43 counter? Mar 06 17:32:43 P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 4 days 18:27:16 (25.769 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 2 days (193.769 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (490) Mar 06 17:32:47 yes :) Mar 06 17:34:04 isn't the stylus a bit big? Mar 06 17:34:31 It doesn't fit in the phone, and is a laser+pen+stylus+phase plasma rifle in the 40w range. Mar 06 17:35:03 ask steve jobs, styluses are out. Mar 06 17:35:06 phase plasma rifle? Mar 06 17:35:18 Sorry, bad terminator reference. Mar 06 17:35:49 * don-o laughs Mar 06 17:36:30 * stefan_schmidt has exactly this stylus/pen/laser pinter/light as a ad from a company. :) Mar 06 17:39:05 * koen dfu-util -a 5 -R -D Angstrom-openmoko-devel-image-test-20070305-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Mar 06 17:39:26 hmmm Mar 06 17:39:39 * koen stabs neo turning off after 30 seconds in bootloader mode Mar 06 17:40:15 is there something i should know about using a P1 device in the USA? something about carrier whitelists? Mar 06 17:40:24 koen: think about the time it takes for shipping, that should refrain you from stabbing it Mar 06 17:41:26 loufoque: it also helps that the neo is in another room :) Mar 06 17:43:41 hehe Mar 06 17:46:19 cu Mar 06 17:49:32 EABI works on the neo :) Mar 06 17:58:30 i'd change the "Bad block table found at page..." message to "Bad-block table" or "BBT" Mar 06 17:58:41 otherwise it looks like an error message Mar 06 18:05:31 do i send a diff? Mar 06 18:06:09 koen - How robust does the neo feel? Mar 06 18:06:49 Elrond: like a regular phone Mar 06 18:07:17 tried irssi on it yet? Mar 06 18:08:13 i tried moon-buggy over UART :) Mar 06 18:09:13 there's no hardware keys for playing anything in console :( Mar 06 18:09:52 balrog-kun - You got a neo?! Mar 06 18:10:25 a virtual one Mar 06 18:10:32 but i touched a real one once :P Mar 06 18:10:47 hehe ;) Mar 06 18:19:33 koen - dfu-util from linux works? Mar 06 18:19:37 Google-video neo1973 page now has 13400 hits. Mar 06 18:20:28 i add +1 where is that , can you link that? Mar 06 18:20:43 http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3742589179435830945http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3742589179435830945 Mar 06 18:20:49 thanx Mar 06 18:20:50 http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3742589179435830945 I mean. However. Mar 06 18:21:14 http://rapidshare.com/files/18781887/rect.avi is a much better quality one. Mar 06 18:21:19 Of the talk at FOSdem. Mar 06 18:24:15 * vmaster waits for koen to mention the pdf slides ;) Mar 06 18:25:57 I think he's busy. Mar 06 18:26:08 http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3076348385043013605 Mar 06 18:26:36 vmaster: heh Mar 06 18:29:17 any ideas web browsers for neo? Mar 06 18:29:24 firefox? :) Mar 06 18:29:31 lynx Mar 06 18:29:56 I did some testing, and firefox actually works OK at 480*640. Mar 06 18:30:00 SpeedEvil: wouldn't that be heacy? Mar 06 18:30:07 heavy i mean, for neo? Mar 06 18:30:17 And I did use it with a 128M machine PII/300 for ages. Mar 06 18:30:26 well a non chrome browser would likely be faster Mar 06 18:30:30 w3m. ;) Mar 06 18:30:43 I've now updated to 192M, but the processor is only 3-4 times faster. Mar 06 18:30:44 isnt galeon gecko+gtk? Mar 06 18:30:52 Elrond: :) Mar 06 18:31:11 SpeedEvil: personally i find it barely bearable on a 1G machine with 1,6ghz pentium m Mar 06 18:31:12 It's probably a bit silly, but the main concern would not be slowness, but battery life, due to comparatively high CPU usage. Mar 06 18:31:27 Oddly, it seems to slow down disproportionally on faster machines. Mar 06 18:31:28 SpeedEvil - I use it on a regular basis on a PII/350 with 256M. (and used to have 128MB on it, running qemu next to ff.) Mar 06 18:31:31 I have _no_ idea why. Mar 06 18:31:50 my main problem with firefox has been with the latency of the gui Mar 06 18:32:03 At the moment, I have 192M RAM in my PII/300, and some 30 tabs open. Mar 06 18:32:05 it's been horrible Mar 06 18:32:11 lol and here i am looking for ajustification to buy a core 2 duo machine ;) Mar 06 18:32:24 10010 is06 15 0 98136 81M 15652 S 0.0 43.3 242:03 0 firefox-bin Mar 06 18:32:34 i dont even use firefox very often anymore Mar 06 18:32:38 usually i just stick to konqueror Mar 06 18:32:46 that one is in ram anyway Mar 06 18:32:47 I like the extension options. Mar 06 18:32:52 yeah so did i Mar 06 18:33:01 but unless i actually develop web apps i dont really need any of them Mar 06 18:33:02 i prefer opera over firefox - and then konqueror when opera doesn't work for something Mar 06 18:34:37 which engine would you choose if you were to develop a new mobile browser, gecko or khtml? Mar 06 18:34:43 webkit Mar 06 18:34:54 khtml would need qt Mar 06 18:35:02 then again that will eventually end up on openmoko anyway Mar 06 18:35:22 (can you run kde in 128mb?) Mar 06 18:35:30 what about minimo? (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minimo/) Mar 06 18:35:35 Remember also, swapping. Mar 06 18:35:36 i'm just thinking of how light it is and also how does it conform to the standards? Mar 06 18:35:52 when i think 128mb i dont think plus swap myself ;) Mar 06 18:35:54 Swapping to flash is comparatively a bad idea. Mar 06 18:35:55 rwhitby, it built for me this time around so x11-dev issue was fixed somehow/somewhere Mar 06 18:36:26 mikesh: minimo looks promising Mar 06 18:36:32 is minimo even alive? Mar 06 18:36:46 <_ASK> bad idea = flash degrades with use Mar 06 18:36:56 Well... Mar 06 18:37:04 with 100000 writes, you can swap for a while Mar 06 18:37:05 minimo looks like a pure windows ce app Mar 06 18:37:11 100K writes per block. Mar 06 18:37:15 opera is free as in bear, right? Mar 06 18:37:17 guaqua: i think it is a pure wince app Mar 06 18:37:21 <_ASK> no, you can't, it's swapping man. Mar 06 18:37:22 Elrond: only for desktop Mar 06 18:37:30 oh, damn :/ Mar 06 18:37:38 buz: sure about that= Mar 06 18:37:42 quite Mar 06 18:37:44 i didn't pay any for my mobile version Mar 06 18:37:54 but the opera guys will surely release an openmoko version Mar 06 18:38:00 i guess sooner rather than later even Mar 06 18:38:04 yep Mar 06 18:38:07 minimo exists outside of windoz, but i don't think it has seen much devel recently. Mar 06 18:38:19 you can get opera mini for free for mobiles Mar 06 18:38:20 there's dillo... Mar 06 18:38:31 opera isn't free (speech) Mar 06 18:38:39 you can swap to an SD card, i've done that on a Palm PDA Mar 06 18:38:46 or you can use it for free Mar 06 18:38:46 For 100 swaps/sec, Mar 06 18:38:57 you get 10 million swaps per day. Mar 06 18:39:01 guaqua, then why bother with a project like openmoko? Mar 06 18:39:02 we dont have java so far Mar 06 18:39:03 <_ASK> exactly Mar 06 18:39:05 that's 100 blocks worth. Mar 06 18:39:29 jebba: ... Mar 06 18:39:42 SpeedEvil: which isnt that much Mar 06 18:39:43 jebba: i'm not the dark jedi here, just checking the alternatives Mar 06 18:39:48 but speed will suck badly Mar 06 18:39:50 If the wear leveling works properly, you can do this for 10000 days, or 300 years. Mar 06 18:39:54 <_ASK> without mentioning that you never know when to stop using the blocks because individual bits will start to fail prematurely Mar 06 18:40:01 you will never get 100 swaps/sec Mar 06 18:40:14 Why not? Mar 06 18:40:17 _ASK: the flash controller should deal with that Mar 06 18:40:39 jebba: dillo does look good for the platform, at least as a starting point Mar 06 18:40:40 linux only swaps memory that's not used too much, Mar 06 18:40:40 <_ASK> yeah, but what about the FS sctructure? Mar 06 18:40:47 besides, you dont even need to swap everything, if your vm is smart enough code should not ever swap Mar 06 18:41:01 cause you can always get the code from the fs Mar 06 18:41:25 You can wind up memory pressure until it gets slow. Mar 06 18:41:27 <_ASK> wish they had MRAM ready. Mar 06 18:41:38 This will depend on the app load. Mar 06 18:41:38 * aloril2 hopes that FIC needs to increase serial number size in Neo1973 from 6 to 7 numbers Mar 06 18:41:58 <_ASK> nah, they sold one million phones last year Mar 06 18:42:02 well, OPIE runs fine on 16 MB of RAM devices without swap Mar 06 18:42:07 <_ASK> more than one million neos is unlikely. Mar 06 18:42:18 especially P0 ones Mar 06 18:42:26 FIC don't care about >1 million neos. Mar 06 18:42:38 i wonder if the P0 edition will stop shipping once P1 version arrives Mar 06 18:42:46 They care about being able to ship devices running OpenMoko selling to end users. Mar 06 18:42:57 Because on that market, they can compete with nokia. Mar 06 18:43:11 Rather than being one of a large number of subcontractors that gets peanuts. Mar 06 18:43:32 fic will likely still prefer being subcontractor to not selling anything at all Mar 06 18:43:38 True. Mar 06 18:43:52 (tho i have known companies who dont think like that) Mar 06 18:44:00 However, if they can get into the selling direct to end-users model, then they do not _nearly_ need to sell the same volume. Mar 06 18:44:05 <_ASK> OPIE looks nice Mar 06 18:45:47 <_ASK> if they produce a good phone, be sure that Mexico will be among first adopters Mar 06 18:46:02 <_ASK> TELCEL is buying and rebranding chinese phones Mar 06 18:46:07 seems kinda expensive for mexico Mar 06 18:46:24 <_ASK> no way... they annouce the treo 680 Mar 06 18:46:30 <_ASK> they sell it for like $600 Mar 06 18:46:43 LOL Mar 06 18:46:49 i wouldnt buy it for half Mar 06 18:47:07 <_ASK> well, i tell you, good phone and i'm sure they'll sell it Mar 06 18:47:48 i doubt i'll see subsidized neos in switzerland anytime soon Mar 06 18:50:12 In Sep, I'll make local carrier phone shops crazy by asking for the neo ;o) Mar 06 18:50:24 elrond *g* Mar 06 18:50:27 <_ASK> come on... in switzerland, at $350, and you still need subsidy? Mar 06 18:50:56 _ASK - add customs and VAT. Mar 06 18:51:09 <_ASK> oh, that. Mar 06 18:51:22 VAT is actually humane in switzerland at 7.6% Mar 06 18:51:32 however, competing against mostly free with contract phones is hard Mar 06 18:51:50 and you can get the like of sony ericsson KG800 for free these days Mar 06 18:52:03 buz - I should import my neo via switzerland ;) Mar 06 18:52:21 i doubt that works Mar 06 18:52:54 <_ASK> well, VGA screen and a decent os, is worth paying a bit for the thing Mar 06 18:53:07 <_ASK> although... well, i would like to see openmoko in my treo. Mar 06 18:53:41 _ASK: have you tried? Mar 06 18:53:51 now wtf happened just now Mar 06 18:53:53 _ASK: it is for me Mar 06 18:53:57 i gladly shell out 350$ for it Mar 06 18:54:06 in fact, throw wifi into the mix and i'll go higher even Mar 06 18:54:10 but for most? no Mar 06 18:54:25 <_ASK> they'll release new models later Mar 06 18:54:30 <_ASK> this is mostly for development Mar 06 18:55:00 the kernel does run on the Treo 650 and 680, you should be able to boot openmoko off the SD Mar 06 18:55:41 <_ASK> i'll try when it's a bit more stable Mar 06 18:55:59 <_ASK> http://www.clubimate.com/ultimate/ <- tough competition Mar 06 18:59:16 I hope they will keep selling openmoko with the current setup Mar 06 18:59:24 at a lower price if possible Mar 06 18:59:31 and then keep inventing new models with more stuff Mar 06 18:59:58 <_ASK> well, it's better, economically speaking, to add more deatures than to sell the old model for less Mar 06 19:00:04 <_ASK> more features doesn't cost that much Mar 06 19:00:21 well.. there have often been SX processors, celerons etc Mar 06 19:00:44 people buy them because they are cheap Mar 06 19:00:47 <_ASK> yeah, but they charge offensively for the high end models, which i doubt FIC does on the neo Mar 06 19:00:55 true Mar 06 19:00:59 well, let's see Mar 06 19:01:21 <_ASK> hope they release a phone like the ultimate 8150 Mar 06 19:01:29 <_ASK> 94mm x 50mm x 11mm with 2.6 VGA... =) Mar 06 19:02:02 I'd like openmoko to have screwholes along the sides Mar 06 19:02:14 That's easy to do. Mar 06 19:02:15 so there could be 3rd party hardware that you could just screw on :) Mar 06 19:02:23 See [[Expansion Back]] Mar 06 19:02:37 * cworth shudders in horror at "monotone db migrate command fails on some updates" Mar 06 19:02:44 It's actually pretty much possible to do quite a lot with just a replacement back. Mar 06 19:02:49 SpeedEvil, :) Mar 06 19:03:06 Why would people trust source code to a tool in that state? Mar 06 19:03:09 <_ASK> do you guys know fastap? Mar 06 19:03:11 yeah.. I'd like a typical 12-button keyboard for speedy sms typing with thumb Mar 06 19:03:21 I'm unsure. Mar 06 19:03:56 I don't really need the feel of the buttons for texting so much. Mar 06 19:04:03 <_ASK> i think in Asia they underestimate the value of a decent keyboard Mar 06 19:04:28 Yeah - as sequential char selection may take weeks per char in some sets :) Mar 06 19:04:35 _ASK: "decent" is quite unavailable at this form factor of course... Mar 06 19:04:56 <_ASK> well, yes... by decent i mean one key per letter Mar 06 19:05:36 _ASK: Go binary! Only two keys needed! Mar 06 19:06:02 (Though, yes, in general, the more physical buttons the better as far as I'm concerned.) Mar 06 19:06:07 i'd like to see a good morse code input ;) Mar 06 19:06:16 And LEDs---clearly the neo1973 could use some LEDs. Mar 06 19:06:19 <_ASK> i can type nearly as fast on the treo as i can on my laptop Mar 06 19:06:32 traditional style here, no fancy two-button automatic keyers ;) Mar 06 19:06:47 guaqua: Perfect. The neo does give you exaclty the one button you need. Mar 06 19:07:03 cworth: but the software, that's more complicated :) Mar 06 19:08:01 just hook up a wiimote, lots of buttons :P Mar 06 19:12:20 cworth - I don't really care for LEDs. Having the lcd transflective might be nicer. Mar 06 19:16:16 philippe: How was my bottle of beer? :) Mar 06 19:17:00 * prpplague perks up after some said BEER Mar 06 19:17:10 hi stefan Mar 06 19:17:10 stefan_schmidt: what kind of beer? Mar 06 19:17:18 hi stefan_schmidt Mar 06 19:17:18 hi woglinde Mar 06 19:17:36 stefan_schmidt: I expect it to be good. Had no time yet to drink it :-) Mar 06 19:17:55 But if you come next year again I will make up for it and pay you some. Mar 06 19:18:24 prpplague: No idea. It was my speaker gift at fosdem, but I forget it. Mar 06 19:18:37 philippe: I'll will be there. No question. Mar 06 19:18:47 prpplague: Achel trappist Mar 06 19:18:49 philippe: Was a nice event Mar 06 19:19:08 * philippe wishes he had more time. Mar 06 19:19:22 I missed a few people and would have liked to hang out a bit more at the OE booth Mar 06 19:19:53 philippe: That's the problem doing a job at the fosdem. But somebody has to do it and you did it well Mar 06 19:20:42 hmm, 270 people here. Would be interesting when we get the 300. Mar 06 19:21:09 Anyway, I have a long night of openmoko work in front of me. cu later. Mar 06 19:21:42 philippe: oh lovely Mar 06 19:24:16 stefan_schmidt: you lucky guy... mine is somewhere in Germany atm... Mar 06 19:25:31 philippe: ah, no. I don't have it yet. But there is enough other stuff to do. I like to be prepared when it arrives. Mar 06 19:29:49 philippe: FOSDEM was almost insanely hectic. I had hoped to meet a lot more openmoko/openembedded people there than I had time to. Mar 06 19:31:15 cworth: those things happen... and with an estimated 4500 to 5000 people that can happen... Mar 06 19:46:16 Ah, nice. The phone isn't orange after all. :-) Mar 06 19:47:33 But I'm feeling too stupid to figure out how to put the microSD card in... :-} Mar 06 19:47:57 previous nick count record was 270 at 2007-02-26 (a bit ago was 272) Mar 06 19:48:22 you got one? Mar 06 19:48:33 the microsd card goes under the SIM doesnt it? Mar 06 19:48:33 parag0n: Yes, just arrived. Mar 06 19:48:59 luxureh! Mar 06 19:49:16 can;t wait5 until p1 starts ^__^ Mar 06 19:50:39 I thought I was going to buy a p1 phone but then I realized the hardware was gonna be improved a while after that Mar 06 19:50:41 cworth: yeah, the micro SD slot does come up if you pull hard enough. Mar 06 19:50:53 I made a coworker do it. ;-) Mar 06 19:51:10 parag0n: I admit that I'm somewhat embarrassed to be singled out for early access. Mar 06 19:51:24 cjb: Oh. So clearly I wasn't daring enough... Mar 06 19:51:28 well, if you dont want it... ;) Mar 06 19:51:56 huzzah, p1 will have SPI on the debug header Mar 06 19:52:02 harware modding ftw Mar 06 19:52:03 http://www.varioptic.com/res/products/AFCM-MI285-Camera-Module-v2.pdf one should fit that into neo's hole Mar 06 19:52:30 parag0n: ooh. is there a PLCC socket or something? Mar 06 19:52:44 I wanted SPI/USB/VCC on a connector next to the battery - inside,. Mar 06 19:52:48 no. Mar 06 19:52:52 or do you just get to write SPI and lose horribly if it goes wrong? Mar 06 19:52:58 A flat circuit cnnector. Mar 06 19:53:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_top.jpg <-- top left of there Mar 06 19:56:14 so maybe SPI is the thing everyone wanted? Mar 06 19:57:18 The Neo1973 has one microSD aka Transflash slot. This supports cards up to 2Gb. It does not support SDHC, so will not support some cards over this. No card of over 4G will work. Mar 06 19:57:30 shouldnt it in fact read no card over 2G will work? Mar 06 19:57:48 speed: no usb Mar 06 19:58:03 who states that it doesn't support sdhc? Mar 06 19:58:10 the wiki Mar 06 19:58:10 stop spreading rumours! Mar 06 19:58:22 buz: It support sdhc just not tested Mar 06 19:58:31 thats what i thought Mar 06 19:58:32 buz: micrSD starts at 4GB Mar 06 19:58:42 microsdhc yes Mar 06 19:58:42 true is: we don't know if it supports SDHC. we have not yet been able to obtain a 4GB sample Mar 06 19:58:53 buz: right Mar 06 19:58:56 even FIC can't find one in taiwan Mar 06 19:59:10 LaF0rge: i think they dont actually exist yet Mar 06 19:59:30 (its hard enough to get minisdhc) Mar 06 20:00:18 :) /me goes to correct the wiki. Why not simply take a 4G card and an adaptor? Mar 06 20:00:30 fullsize -> micro Mar 06 20:00:34 i dont think i've seen big to small adaptors yet Mar 06 20:00:38 buz: If the wiki stated no microSDHC could you please fix this? Would be nice. Mar 06 20:00:53 * SpeedEvil fixing. Mar 06 20:00:55 must create account first ;) Mar 06 20:01:15 SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973_Hardware&action=edit§ion=11 Mar 06 20:01:17 buz: SpeedEvil does it for you. :) Mar 06 20:01:20 SpeedEvil: thx Mar 06 20:01:55 i have some interesting adaptor picture, but its in the internal wiki :( Mar 06 20:01:56 neov2 must have 5.1 sound Mar 06 20:02:05 (not sure what for, it just needs it) Mar 06 20:02:29 (just like we all need to upgrade 5.1 homecinema to 7.1 for some reason) Mar 06 20:02:29 and a projector! Mar 06 20:02:40 parag0n: THAT would actually make some sense Mar 06 20:02:48 and bluray / hddvd playback at 1080p Mar 06 20:02:54 of course Mar 06 20:02:55 could we add popcorn machine and a beer cooler? Mar 06 20:03:05 and that samsung 7inch 1080p lcd Mar 06 20:03:12 have you read about those really small projectors? Mar 06 20:03:17 yes Mar 06 20:03:24 seem kinda useless with current light output Mar 06 20:04:18 The Neo1973 has one microSD aka Transflash slot. It should support SDHC, but this has not been tested. If this works, cards >2G should work with no problems. As there are no microSD cards over 2G at the moment, it hsan't been tested. Mar 06 20:04:32 sigh Mar 06 20:04:37 * SpeedEvil typofixes. Mar 06 20:05:58 there probably will be regular microSD 4GB cards sometime soonish Mar 06 20:06:10 Yeah. Mar 06 20:06:11 since you can get 4gb SD cards Mar 06 20:06:20 It's a trivial adaptor to make though. Mar 06 20:06:45 i'm not sure about those regular SD 4G cards Mar 06 20:06:52 they are beyond the standard in any case Mar 06 20:07:07 Iit's the 2G cards that can be beyond the standard AIUI. Mar 06 20:07:13 starting at 4G, you are in SDHC territory Mar 06 20:07:17 The 4G ones are all SDHC Mar 06 20:07:26 AIUI. Mar 06 20:07:31 actually there are some that dont say a thing of SDHC Mar 06 20:07:37 Yeah. Mar 06 20:07:39 but maybe thats just the vendor being especially daft Mar 06 20:07:51 2G is covered by SD standard i believe Mar 06 20:07:52 Or perhaps not wanting to pay the extra fee. Mar 06 20:08:00 those have been shipping for along time now Mar 06 20:08:08 I assume there is an extra fee. Mar 06 20:08:33 So, Michael S is claiming first neo in the wild Mar 06 20:08:33 Did I hear that right, that the P1 will include a 512M microsd? Mar 06 20:08:37 yes. Mar 06 20:08:42 do we know who got it first - him or Koen? Mar 06 20:08:44 IIRC koen said 512 came. Mar 06 20:08:45 who cares Mar 06 20:08:57 1G is now about 6EUR Mar 06 20:09:03 It's a bit of fun - hardly serious :-P Mar 06 20:09:04 Not micro Mar 06 20:09:08 I heard sean saying p1 will have 512 Mar 06 20:09:09 sure Mar 06 20:09:14 micro is a bit more. in ones. Mar 06 20:09:17 1G kingston microsd is 10CHF Mar 06 20:09:23 which is roughly 7EUR Mar 06 20:09:26 K. Mar 06 20:09:37 Maybe my vendor just sucks. Mar 06 20:09:45 be nice if we could pay abit more for p1 and get a 1gb card with it Mar 06 20:09:48 buz - In the normal "next door reseller store"? Mar 06 20:09:50 "3/6/2007 10:42 pm Depart Facility. Singapore, Singapore" :-( Mar 06 20:09:57 Elrond: lowest price online Mar 06 20:10:04 in next door store probably 3 times that Mar 06 20:10:05 saves having a 512 card left over Mar 06 20:10:13 I want the 512 card to have a 'restore from backup' option on it. Mar 06 20:10:21 hehe\ Mar 06 20:10:22 Keep it in a keyring case. Mar 06 20:11:14 cheapest price shipped is more like 12EUR though Mar 06 20:11:26 I like the current hardware choosing. Only thing I dislike curenntly is the logos all over the lanyard. I'm probably not going to use it. ;) Mar 06 20:11:29 (from a reputable source even) Mar 06 20:11:41 does anyone really wear a phone around their neck? Mar 06 20:11:48 i dont even do that with usb stick mp3players Mar 06 20:11:55 I wear a torch - that's about 1/2 the weight. Mar 06 20:12:06 And have worn mp3 players there. Mar 06 20:12:08 the neo is rather heavy as far as phones go Mar 06 20:12:11 I wear my monocular. ;) Mar 06 20:12:16 Typically under a t-shirt. Mar 06 20:12:17 i wear a shuffle at my collar Mar 06 20:12:47 but honestly, i have never seen anyone wearing a PHONE Mar 06 20:13:09 For pocket wear though, it'll need a hardcase. Mar 06 20:13:55 i have carried my p900 for 3+ years without any case in my pockets Mar 06 20:14:03 Yeah, a hardcase would also be nice instead of the lanyard. My current phone is rugged, which I like a lot. Mar 06 20:14:09 sure, the silly silverish makeup wore off, but it still lives Mar 06 20:15:00 more important: if it gets a cam, it should have a sliding lenscover Mar 06 20:15:22 hehe. I don't want a cam on it. :) Mar 06 20:15:38 I want a cam that can be removed from the back. Mar 06 20:15:59 get an usb webcam and stick it into the hole Mar 06 20:16:04 i'm thinking a cam can only be useful when it has edge/3g Mar 06 20:16:13 Of course not. Mar 06 20:16:22 a good cam would be eminently useful Mar 06 20:16:23 so that it can be used in video calls Mar 06 20:16:27 but good cams are very rare Mar 06 20:16:32 video calls is one truly useless feature Mar 06 20:16:33 You can use the cam for gesture interfacing, taking pictures of things , ... Mar 06 20:16:42 barcodes Mar 06 20:16:46 ... women ... Mar 06 20:16:49 note-taking. Mar 06 20:16:59 taking pictures Mar 06 20:17:05 Gesture interfacing, heh, sounds like a way of saying "Please steal my phone" Mar 06 20:17:11 And the stereotypical 'pictures of drunk friends' use. Mar 06 20:17:40 hehe. Mar 06 20:17:41 heh alcometer-by-gestures Mar 06 20:17:43 well the pictures of drunk friends is the most useful thing in a cam Mar 06 20:18:05 or moreso the stunts they pull Mar 06 20:18:22 for that video is more useful Mar 06 20:18:47 Also - radom stuff, like pictures of price labels in shops, when looking round for prices. Mar 06 20:19:12 SpeedEvil: how many times have you actually done that? Mar 06 20:19:14 Or for stuff that the label has fallen off, you take a picture of the shelf label, to make it so that they don't have to go back and look. Mar 06 20:19:21 Quite commonly actually. Mar 06 20:19:31 i did it once and then ended deleting the pictures cos they were of so bad quality Mar 06 20:19:37 i dont buy stuff that lacks labels usually Mar 06 20:19:37 DIY stuff, comparing prices for stuff I'm considering buying on ebay. Mar 06 20:20:03 I must admit that I'm using the stylus more than the neo Mar 06 20:20:04 guaqua: these days there are decent cams Mar 06 20:20:07 not many but a few Mar 06 20:20:08 I mean stuff like expanded metal mesh, that the barcode label falls off of. Mar 06 20:20:08 laser! Mar 06 20:20:23 mhh now we only need some sharks Mar 06 20:20:39 USB-interfaced sharks. Mar 06 20:20:53 bluetooth Mar 06 20:20:53 With waterproof neo cases. Mar 06 20:21:12 Don't be silly, bluetooth doesn't penetrate water. Mar 06 20:21:19 It'd be no use for controlling sharks. Mar 06 20:21:24 some sort of cover for the display is my number one addition Mar 06 20:21:56 A protective film is vital - but even with that, breaking a touchscreen is easy. Mar 06 20:22:07 i dont think so Mar 06 20:22:19 i regularly break all kinds of stuff Mar 06 20:22:23 never broke a touchscreen Mar 06 20:22:23 easy for carelss people. Mar 06 20:23:20 a bluetooth watch to go with neo Mar 06 20:23:23 ow that would be neat Mar 06 20:23:38 haven't been able to break my nokia, but considering it's keypad works at about 50% rate (not half the buttons, but most buttons half the time) i don't think i'm taking risks with good hardware :) Mar 06 20:24:49 SpeedEvil - What should one avoid? Mar 06 20:25:01 ? Mar 06 20:25:18 ... so not to break the touchscreen. Mar 06 20:25:20 Sitting on it is bad. Mar 06 20:25:28 avoid putting the phone in your pocket when there are other things in there Mar 06 20:25:30 lol Mar 06 20:25:37 dont put your phone in the back pocket Mar 06 20:25:44 give your phone its own pocket :P Mar 06 20:25:46 Putting the touchscreen face-out is even worse than face-in. Mar 06 20:25:52 and maybe not in the same pocket as pointy things Mar 06 20:25:55 If you're in confined spaces. Mar 06 20:26:54 Hmm, my current phone lives in its own trouser pocket. Mar 06 20:26:54 my old palm used to have a flap Mar 06 20:26:55 * rwhitby will be populating J1 on the debug board so he can use it on his other XScale devices ... Mar 06 20:27:12 ive always kept my phone in my left pocket where nothing else is, so ill just keep doing that Mar 06 20:27:13 which actually worked and didn't take too much extra space Mar 06 20:27:56 Psi: yeah that works good Mar 06 20:28:36 Psi - Yeah, ilke me... We need a screen lock. ;) Mar 06 20:28:42 just leatherman and phone doesnt really mix very well Mar 06 20:28:58 it will have a screen lock by the time its a real product Mar 06 20:29:02 i have no doubt of that Mar 06 20:29:03 buz - keys and phone nicer. Mar 06 20:29:19 s/nicer/neither/ Mar 06 20:29:19 depends on the keys really Mar 06 20:29:19 Elrond meant: buz - keys and phone neither. Mar 06 20:29:21 it'll have a screen lock by the time it is actually used by someone :) Mar 06 20:29:28 most modern keys we have here are totally rounded Mar 06 20:29:39 heh Mar 06 20:29:56 buz - I still have lots of old style keys. Mar 06 20:30:06 only car is old style here Mar 06 20:30:15 and i never carry that one unless i have the car Mar 06 20:30:41 none of my keys are rounded Mar 06 20:31:04 I still wonder, how rounded keys look. Mar 06 20:31:13 yes Mar 06 20:31:45 http://www.kaba.ch/produkte/schliesssysteme/mechanik.html?&L=1 like this Mar 06 20:32:46 (8 and 20 are very common here) Mar 06 20:33:14 * SpeedEvil notes that key copys can be made from pictures of some keys. Mar 06 20:34:15 SpeedEvil - Yeah. ;) Mar 06 20:34:18 <-- gets food. Mar 06 20:34:34 i doubt the manufacturer will post actual keys on their page Mar 06 20:35:17 i want that meizu m8 to be for real Mar 06 20:35:22 and able to run openmoko Mar 06 20:35:35 wasn't there a voting machine for which they successfully manufactured keys just using pics from the web? Mar 06 20:39:03 counter Mar 06 20:39:03 P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 15:20:56 (25.640 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (491) Mar 06 20:39:36 cool pics :D Mar 06 20:41:37 man i can't wait to get one Mar 06 20:43:16 is the pen with laser and so on, in every basic kit? Mar 06 20:43:47 i mean the combi stylus ^^ Mar 06 20:44:07 the case is nice too :) Mar 06 20:44:14 an of course the phone ;) Mar 06 20:44:17 *and Mar 06 20:47:03 sean was hinting at a "very nice stylus" Mar 06 20:47:09 so i think this is the standard one indeed Mar 06 20:48:06 those sell for 1.60$ on ebay btw ;) Mar 06 20:48:39 http://cgi.ebay.com/4in1-PDA-Stylus-LED-Light-Torch-Laser-Pointer-Pen-h7_W0QQitemZ280089656134QQi Mar 06 20:48:43 looks rather similar Mar 06 20:49:36 i'd forget that i had it on the pen and write on my screen... Mar 06 20:50:06 yeah i think its the same Mar 06 20:50:10 possibly minus the led light Mar 06 20:50:26 http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=412593301&size=l looks identical Mar 06 20:51:01 (and the thing is huge compared to the phone) Mar 06 20:53:58 buz, you have a neo? Mar 06 20:54:03 comes with a guitar pick? Mar 06 20:54:03 no Mar 06 20:54:11 :< Mar 06 20:54:18 but koen does Mar 06 20:54:26 can someone who has one take a photo of it next to a coke can? Mar 06 20:54:38 i need to get some perspective on the size ;) Mar 06 20:54:49 i have a coke can but no neo :) Mar 06 20:54:59 i have neither Mar 06 20:55:04 It almost entirely fits in a coke can. Mar 06 20:55:10 2-3mm sticks out the top. Mar 06 20:55:26 And it's a little shorter than the diameter. Mar 06 20:55:35 narrower I mean. Mar 06 20:57:06 it looks like your common S60 phone size Mar 06 20:57:30 or SE's walkman phones Mar 06 20:57:31 slightly thicker maybe Mar 06 20:57:41 mhh the walkman phones are smaller i think Mar 06 20:57:50 Get a bit of cheese, and start whittling. Mar 06 20:58:07 ? Mar 06 20:58:22 cheese + measurements + picture. Mar 06 20:58:27 = model neo. Mar 06 20:58:42 LOL Mar 06 20:58:47 i keep my p900 as reference Mar 06 20:58:51 cheese is too tasty Mar 06 20:58:53 slightly wider and slightly higher Mar 06 20:59:21 maybe SpeedEvil is referring to what is sold as cheese in the us Mar 06 21:03:11 hm its only so big how a walkman phone from se? Mar 06 21:03:20 slightly bigger Mar 06 21:03:31 think small pda Mar 06 21:04:08 btw to my dicussion above: The pen/laser/stylus are cool :D Mar 06 21:04:21 buz: that sounds good Mar 06 21:04:40 we need a paper modell, how the iphone ^^ Mar 06 21:04:48 i think someone did one Mar 06 21:07:11 wow - someone translated the MokoMakefile wiki page into russian. thanks! Mar 06 21:07:13 http://www.iphonecountdown.com/iphone_readymech.pdf <= hehe Mar 06 21:07:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile/ru Mar 06 21:07:44 so what does 1973 symbolize? the year? Mar 06 21:07:53 first cellphone call. Mar 06 21:07:56 good lord. http://www.micronovae.com/CSP.html Mar 06 21:08:32 first cellphone call costed $1973? that's a hell of an airtime Mar 06 21:08:56 disq: it was to a premium rate number Mar 06 21:09:20 that explains it Mar 06 21:16:42 * cworth waits, and waits, and waits for monotone... Mar 06 21:17:37 It's somewhat surprising we aren't all using the same NAND image. Mar 06 21:18:34 http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=412663954&size=l wow that one is really impressing Mar 06 21:19:43 wonder if anyone's managed to actually use the GSM yet. Mar 06 21:19:52 or is that one of the broken hardware parts? Mar 06 21:20:07 half broken anyway Mar 06 21:20:28 D'oh. How? Mar 06 21:20:32 the neo is to thin how my w800i Mar 06 21:21:08 but its a big wider and longer Mar 06 21:21:21 makes weird noise i believe Mar 06 21:21:29 huh. Mar 06 21:21:41 s/to/so Mar 06 21:21:59 cjb, buz: loud sidetone. Fixable with a firmware update for BP Mar 06 21:22:32 what's BP? Mar 06 21:22:44 baseband processor Mar 06 21:22:51 as opposed to AP, application processor Mar 06 21:23:03 ah. can you do that on p0 units, in the field? Mar 06 21:23:22 cjb: good question Mar 06 21:24:16 cjb: The problem is the windows firmware flasher from TI and the distribution of the firmware itself. Mar 06 21:24:38 cjb: There is no clear statement about it right now. Mar 06 21:24:48 yuck. they didn't give you redistributable firmware? Mar 06 21:25:16 cjb: hmm, perhaps I'm wrong here. Mar 06 21:25:48 stefan_schmidt: that's my understanding as well, from what LaF0rge said Mar 06 21:25:49 i think you cant do it in the field Mar 06 21:25:54 (from what i understand) Mar 06 21:26:05 you can, but are not allowed to, is my understanding. Mar 06 21:26:10 always thought you'd need to sign some kind of faustian deal to get anywhere near GSM baseband Mar 06 21:26:16 cjb: Should be mentioned on the wiki or ml when we have something definitiv about it. Mar 06 21:26:57 vmaster: Right. I'll take a long look at the NDA before signing it. :) Mar 06 21:27:08 rwhitby: yes, can, but must not do it Mar 06 21:27:09 vmaster: Not baseband but other docs Mar 06 21:27:21 stefan_schmidt: heh, ok Mar 06 21:27:42 so managed to call anyone yet? Mar 06 21:27:42 koen: bastard. mine is still in flight. Mar 06 21:27:50 lol Mar 06 21:28:09 mean everyone should switch to .nl hahaha Mar 06 21:28:12 All P0 devs with such a phone get another one without this bug anyway. So it should not be such a big problem. Mar 06 21:28:40 And for a hacking only phone the sidetone should be ok Mar 06 21:29:01 stefan_schmidt: does sidetone affect what the other party hears, or what you hear in bluetooth headset? Mar 06 21:29:13 rwhitby: no idea Mar 06 21:29:15 * rwhitby thinks bluetooth->gsm fixed gateway. Mar 06 21:30:24 has anyone tried following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks ? how's u-boot supposed to know where the environment is located after reboot? Mar 06 21:39:51 balrog-kun - Search for dynenv. Mar 06 21:40:23 balrog-kun - The block of the env is stored in the first block. Mar 06 21:41:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Product_IDs Mar 06 21:42:10 Why does the kernel need different IDs for different services?! Mar 06 21:43:51 Elrond: Because the application on the host detect the service on the ID Mar 06 21:44:01 so the host can know what to do? Mar 06 21:44:11 buz: Yes Mar 06 21:44:19 lol Mar 06 21:44:23 i was too slow Mar 06 21:44:34 heh Mar 06 21:44:34 I think, USB can have more than one "function" per ID/device. Mar 06 21:44:54 Elrond: It can Mar 06 21:45:21 Elrond: oh ok, it appears u-boot knows where the environemnt is, it was just failing crc comparison (now checking why) Mar 06 21:45:53 stefan_schmidt - So hosts get confused by that? Mar 06 21:46:25 balrog-kun - You got a neo?! Mar 06 21:47:30 Elrond: Every usb config can have different interfaces (which has again endpoints) Mar 06 21:48:07 Elrond: But it's cleaner to have a different ID anyway Mar 06 21:49:04 Elrond: a virtual one :P Mar 06 21:49:21 I don't understand, why this is cleaner. It's one phone, one usb connector. One ID should be the right thing. Mar 06 21:50:54 Elrond: Some of the ID ranges are already used in drivers. Mar 06 21:51:15 Elrond: Driver for usbnet, usb-serial... Mar 06 21:51:42 They have openmoko specific IDs already in there? Mar 06 21:52:04 Elrond: If you like to get all the deep technical details you have to ask LaF0rge Mar 06 21:52:42 stefan_schmidt - tihi. I wonder, if he has a little more time, as the p0-stress has stopped. Mar 06 21:53:13 Elrond: Even more stress. There is *a lot* to do for P1 Mar 06 21:53:36 I guessed that. Mar 06 21:54:01 Can the neo talk 'directly' to two different bluetooth headsets, without going through the audio path? For example, for them to act as an intercom? Mar 06 21:54:45 SpeedEvil: i would think that would be dependant most upon the BT chip in the phone Mar 06 21:54:54 SpeedEvil: huh, no idea. There was not much bt testing yet. Mar 06 21:56:16 It's more a generic question on the protocol - I'm wondering how much hardware and how much is software in the stack. Mar 06 21:56:30 I suppose I should do more reading. Mar 06 21:59:55 Is the included headset BT or wired? Mar 06 22:00:01 wire Mar 06 22:00:22 From what I saw in the pics. Mar 06 22:01:18 One of the wishlist ideas is to turn the neo into a BT headset emulator. ;) Mar 06 22:02:06 Yeah. Intercom between multiple BT headsets might be cool too. Mar 06 22:04:41 hehe, you mean like in the movies? ;) Mar 06 22:04:49 yeah - wired http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/in/set-72157594573486523/ Mar 06 22:05:07 use neo to emulate a bt headset? like to use with another phone? why? Mar 06 22:05:39 To make it so that you can have another phone on your person, and not need to take it out of your pocket. Mar 06 22:06:00 peepsalot - Like to use with your BT enabled sound equipment. ;) Mar 06 22:06:05 Or that. Mar 06 22:06:23 speedevil: lol, i guess. who carries around two phones though, and if you already had the neo out, why not just call from it Mar 06 22:06:51 Because the other phone is for your $work/$company. Mar 06 22:07:09 ok. i guess it would be neat to use as a PC mic Mar 06 22:07:20 Or transparent VOIP, ... Mar 06 22:07:28 Yeah. Mar 06 22:07:35 But for that BTnet would suffice. Mar 06 22:08:03 Hmm. BT mic for winblows apps. ;) Mar 06 22:08:07 I was meaning for a headset for a VOIP phoneset. Mar 06 22:08:50 SpeedEvil - Ahh. Well, the neo could do voip via BTnet too then. :) (of course, if you mean voip phone at $company. Yeah.) Mar 06 22:15:50 Hmm, if the neo-bt really does like 50m or so, it could be a nice 2way radio. :) Mar 06 22:16:28 Alas - no. Mar 06 22:16:37 It's been stated earlier that it's 10m or so only. Mar 06 22:16:44 Oh, okay. Mar 06 22:17:00 It would be very nice if that's wrong of course. Mar 06 22:17:48 koen can try, IF he has some other BT equipment... or much later, when he gets the p1 one. Mar 06 22:18:00 That true. Mar 06 22:18:24 I don't know what BT's status is now. Mar 06 22:19:17 i never saw BT bigger then 10m .. really i mean Mar 06 22:19:41 It's got to have the high power on both ends is the problem. Mar 06 22:19:57 So headsets/... won't work to long distances. Mar 06 22:20:21 rob_w - I always hear those stories of people in conferences (on security) starting their BT eqipment and getting the phnoe in the other rooms. Mar 06 22:20:27 there supposedly is high powered BT Mar 06 22:20:30 never seen it though Mar 06 22:20:51 Metal does wierd stuff to BT. Mar 06 22:20:59 Elrond: well that might be special BT equipment there Mar 06 22:21:06 not your average USB dongle in any case Mar 06 22:21:37 for walls like in germany , with concrete , you hardly will get 10M wifi connections if there are 2 walls in your direct path Mar 06 22:21:41 If you've got a metal corner, it can act as a reflector, for example. Mar 06 22:21:54 and i meant 802.11x Mar 06 22:21:57 I can lose my wireless AP from 4m away. Mar 06 22:22:06 1m stone walls. Mar 06 22:22:36 this kinda radio is notbe reflected .. your data will go crazy and you actually cant establish i think Mar 06 22:22:43 800Mhz GSM works well. Mar 06 22:22:50 SpeedEvil - Where do you live, that you have 1m stone walls? Mar 06 22:22:57 1.2, or 2.4, not so well. Mar 06 22:23:09 in an autralian cave Mar 06 22:23:11 It's the middle-chimney wall of a small cottage. Mar 06 22:23:22 It used to have fireplaces on both sides. Mar 06 22:23:42 Ahh Mar 06 22:23:56 I think it's from the 1600s, the original shell. Mar 06 22:24:30 Left to ruin around 1940, then refurbished then, 1960, and 1980. Mar 06 22:27:03 There is something wierd going halfway up the neck. Mar 06 22:27:05 oops Mar 06 22:27:33 SpeedEvil: I hear it's known as "the head". Mar 06 22:28:37 Err - no. It was a question in another channel. Mar 06 22:29:04 is there another OM or Neo channel? Mar 06 22:29:12 no? Mar 06 22:29:59 no. Mar 06 22:31:54 well yes, #openmoko-fi with 3 finns in it ;) Mar 06 22:32:02 lol Mar 06 22:33:18 #openmoko-de is empty ;o) Mar 06 22:33:45 hi Mar 06 22:50:57 SpeedEvil: does anyone know if FIC is going to make the neo1973 available as OEM modules? Mar 06 22:51:08 I don't know. Mar 06 22:51:17 Practically speaking. Mar 06 22:51:20 the case costs nothing. Mar 06 22:51:41 If you want the device to build into a new box, you may as well just buy one. Mar 06 22:51:45 SpeedEvil: yea, but the case is not acceptable for our needs Mar 06 22:51:57 Rip it off and start again. Mar 06 22:52:03 It's only a couple of torx screws. Mar 06 22:52:17 SpeedEvil: yea well, be difficult to do with 2500-3000 at a time Mar 06 22:52:43 Not really, but if you're talking that sort of volume, ask a question on the mailing list. Mar 06 22:52:53 They might well be interested. Mar 06 22:53:02 if you're buying that many, i'm sure they would Mar 06 22:53:21 Would you just be wanting the board, or the board + LCD? Mar 06 22:53:44 SpeedEvil: probably board+lcd Mar 06 22:53:49 It should be possible to change the LCD a bit, within reason. Mar 06 22:53:54 SpeedEvil: yea Mar 06 22:53:59 All you'd need is another cable. Mar 06 22:54:13 SpeedEvil: the lcd is small than what we normally use Mar 06 22:54:34 It's a shame that generic small USB screens are not available. Mar 06 22:54:54 An USB screen... Mar 06 22:55:01 That would really be really handy at times :\ Mar 06 22:55:15 SpeedEvil: most of the newer tft's come with SPI support Mar 06 22:55:30 ...or well Mar 06 22:55:48 True - occasionally it'd be nice to get a nice little canned 'case badge' sized LCD/OLED, with a USB cable on it though. Mar 06 22:55:59 wow Mar 06 22:56:05 USB screen hmmmm Mar 06 22:56:06 What about a small portable VGA screen Mar 06 22:56:13 For fixing headless servers that have totally borked Mar 06 22:56:20 Without having to lug a whole monitor around Mar 06 22:56:20 SpeedEvil: about what size? Mar 06 22:56:22 I was more meaning 1 or 1.5". Mar 06 22:56:27 :P Mar 06 22:56:33 Wait, 1.5"? o_O Mar 06 22:56:35 What would you use that for Mar 06 22:56:38 Just basically a replacement for 2*10 line char displays. Mar 06 22:56:43 Ah Mar 06 22:56:44 SpeedEvil: ahh Mar 06 22:56:53 SpeedEvil: that darn easy to do Mar 06 22:56:55 Well I was thinking slightly larger, not a full-size monitor though Mar 06 22:57:11 It's easy to do. It's not especially cheap to do in ones. Mar 06 22:57:39 SpeedEvil: qualify cheap Mar 06 22:58:07 As cheap as the MP3 players with the same size of OLED would be nice. Mar 06 22:58:11 actually that should be quantify Mar 06 22:58:40 SpeedEvil: you could do a 128x128 color display with a usb interface for about $35.00 Mar 06 22:58:54 At the moment I'm looking for a couple of 'guages' for my car. Mar 06 22:59:02 SpeedEvil: ahh Mar 06 22:59:19 There isn't really a good solution for this, yes you can get nice 2.5" composite monitors. Mar 06 22:59:26 SpeedEvil: i assume you've seen the ones on sparkfun Mar 06 22:59:34 Driving multiple composite monitors isn't easy from laptops. Mar 06 22:59:35 yeah. Mar 06 22:59:50 Then there is the whole issue of writing the driver. Mar 06 23:00:15 In the end I gave up, and compromised on a large 4*20 alphanumeric screen. Mar 06 23:00:20 SpeedEvil: hehe, thought about grabbing some juiceboxes? Mar 06 23:01:09 i think overstock.com still has a ton Mar 06 23:01:53 yea looks like they still have a bunch Mar 06 23:02:20 I only see a strokes single. Mar 06 23:02:40 SpeedEvil: ? Mar 06 23:02:54 SpeedEvil: http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=2192839 Mar 06 23:03:04 Ah - space in the middle. Mar 06 23:03:46 SpeedEvil: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBox Mar 06 23:04:15 SpeedEvil: uses the s3c44b0x , the s3c2410's little arm7tdmi cousin Mar 06 23:05:58 No interfaces though. I'd need it to somehow talk to a laptop. Mar 06 23:06:15 SpeedEvil: its got rs-232 and lots of gpio Mar 06 23:06:23 I diddn't see the GPIO. Mar 06 23:06:41 SpeedEvil: not directly listed, but all the pins are available on the board Mar 06 23:06:55 Anyway. I can hack one together. I was just bemoaning that they are not actually available as a commodity product. Mar 06 23:07:04 SpeedEvil: yea Mar 06 23:07:24 As if I decide I want another one later, I'm then faced with trying to source the same hardware again, and going through an annoying process. Mar 06 23:07:31 Rather than simply buying one. Mar 06 23:07:57 yea, seems like crystalfontz has some, but they are really expensive Mar 06 23:08:36 SpeedEvil: http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/index-usb.html Mar 06 23:08:43 One key from the 'Optimus' 3-key keyboard would almost be reasonable at that price. Mar 06 23:08:48 at a third of sticker. Mar 06 23:09:38 In the end the one I got had RS232 + VT100, 1cm high chars, for not much on ebay. Mar 06 23:09:51 Anyeay, I'd better stop wibbling off-topic. Mar 06 23:10:00 SpeedEvil: yea, sorry Mar 06 23:11:18 SpeedEvil - We're also here for OT fun. :) Mar 06 23:11:30 indeed Mar 06 23:11:34 But people do read the backscroll. Mar 06 23:11:44 For actual neo-related information. Mar 06 23:12:31 So we should include big markers? "**** OT start ****" and "**** OT end ****"? ;o) Mar 06 23:13:26 :) Mar 06 23:14:12 Or some stop logging, we want to talk private command to the logging bots ;) Mar 06 23:15:31 like on enterprise "computer, stop eavesdroping, this is private" ;) Mar 06 23:15:32 * rwhitby arrives at work, and there is *no* DHL package :-( Mar 06 23:15:39 rwhitby: :\ Mar 06 23:15:52 so maybe this arvo, or tomorrow morning at latest. Mar 06 23:15:53 I'll get mine tomorrow =) Mar 06 23:16:37 Hey, don't complain. You get one for free, you'll be able to wait another few hours. Mar 06 23:16:58 * SpeedEvil ponders what'd happen if they stuck the 14 on ebay. Mar 06 23:19:59 SpeedEvil - They'd go up, quite well. ;) Mar 06 23:21:28 wait, so they have 14 spare phones just sat around? Mar 06 23:21:56 indeed they have =) Mar 06 23:22:13 Yes. Mar 06 23:22:23 There were 14 insane people chosen to be devs. Mar 06 23:22:23 I imaging LaF0rge is flooded w/ emails about these 14 devices =) Mar 06 23:25:24 Yeah. Mar 06 23:25:34 Wont be long until they're on ebay. ;) Mar 06 23:27:51 * SpeedEvil has an ebay search for neo1973 Mar 06 23:28:00 speedevil *g* Mar 06 23:29:55 hmm Mar 06 23:32:21 you'd hope the p0's wouldn't end up on ebay until the p1's had shipped at least Mar 06 23:32:49 P1 shipment is supposed to continue for some time. Mar 06 23:32:59 s/./0/ Mar 06 23:32:59 SpeedEvil meant: P1 shipment is supposed to continue for some time0 Mar 06 23:33:06 P0 Mar 06 23:33:10 Err Mar 06 23:33:15 I was right first time. Mar 06 23:35:04 Hmm. "Engeenering sample" do not need to pay customs/VAT? ;) Mar 06 23:36:07 (On koen's thing it's "enginnering sample") Mar 06 23:37:08 usually that cost is based on the declared value... regardless of content Mar 06 23:38:14 Stephmw - I heard -- for .de -- that it also depends on wether you have a financial win by getting the thing. Mar 06 23:40:11 Elrond: interesting - I've not come across that before, but I'm in the UK Mar 06 23:40:38 Importing stuff up to 17(?) pounds value attracts no duty into the UK. Mar 06 23:40:52 i managed to import a gps from the USA for nothing extra :D Mar 06 23:40:59 it's pot luck if customs catch you Mar 06 23:41:00 Stuff over that may get hit with 6% import duty, and then 17.5% VAT. Mar 06 23:41:29 And 'samples' can be charged too. Mar 06 23:41:32 It's pot luck. Mar 06 23:41:35 IME. Mar 06 23:41:41 hell i managed to post a machete home :) Mar 06 23:41:58 Express shipment tends to be more likely to attract customs. DHL IIRC collect it for customs. Mar 06 23:42:06 It may vary. Mar 06 23:42:25 if it's a gift it's exempt usually Mar 06 23:42:38 No, it's not. Mar 06 23:42:44 Only if it's under 17 quid. Mar 06 23:42:48 AIUI. Mar 06 23:42:52 also i thought they had (in the uk) varying different duties, you can be charged upto 90% depending on what it is, IIRC Mar 06 23:43:49 Any goods purchased from outside the EC are liable for duty and in some cases VAT. If you have been sent a gift and the value is under £36 you will not be liable, over that amount you will be charged depending on the product. For purchases bought by yourself with a value over £18 you may have to pay duty depending on the product; it may also be liable to VAT. Under that amount you will not be liable. Mar 06 23:44:09 http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageImport_FAQs&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD_008654 Mar 06 23:44:16 what happened to the daily builds at https://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/gta01/deploy/images/ ? Mar 06 23:44:38 they were quite useful Mar 06 23:44:54 balrog-kun: try buildhost-old as hostname Mar 06 23:45:12 arent the european ones shipping from within the EU though? Mar 06 23:45:12 balrog-kun: Hardware troubles and new machine Mar 06 23:45:27 stefan_schmidt: oh, thanks Mar 06 23:45:30 parag0n: Not P0, this should start at P1 Mar 06 23:45:37 this worked Mar 06 23:45:37 ah Mar 06 23:45:53 * stefan_schmidt moves back to reading g_serial code Mar 06 23:46:48 Hmm. How's duty/VAT from within the EU/EC? Mar 06 23:47:09 Non-existent :) Mar 06 23:47:28 however this host doesn't have the 20070302010255 :p Mar 06 23:47:37 20070302010255 build Mar 06 23:48:14 Goods travel freely, but you do pay taxes to the country you're buying from, as if you were in the country. Mar 06 23:50:38 So, if fic is sitting in the uk, we have to pay 17.5% VAT? Mar 06 23:51:04 Yep Mar 06 23:51:37 uk seems to have one of the better rates of VAT Mar 06 23:51:49 it's just the other taxes you have to watch out for ::) Mar 06 23:51:50 It's always better than importing, though you can always end up lucky like koen. Mar 06 23:52:02 It's 19% here since 2001. Mar 06 23:52:52 It's also 19% here since this year. Mar 06 23:53:20 it was 16% before 2007 in .de ;) Mar 06 23:53:37 ~change 411.25 usd to eur Mar 06 23:53:44 411.25 United States Dollar (USD) makes 313.132 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Mar 06 23:54:14 Hmm. + S&H... Mar 06 23:54:39 is xe based off of the forex, or what you would get as a peon? Mar 06 23:55:02 grgehunt - I have no idea. Mar 06 23:56:24 SpeedEvil: FedEx also collect for customs Mar 06 23:57:30 * stefan_schmidt thinks 14 hours work on one day is enough. Time for an episode of simpsons and sleep. Mar 06 23:58:04 *G* Mar 06 23:59:36 3/6/2007 11:00 pm Processed for clearance Cologne, Germany Mar 07 00:00:10 :) Mar 07 00:00:10 hopefully tomorrow Mar 07 00:01:02 i guess german customs is very thorough and efficient :) Mar 07 00:01:48 grgehunt - Yep. They kept the gps module of a friend, until he went to the customs and free'd it... Mar 07 00:02:02 "free your phone. It's kid'napped by customs" ;) Mar 07 00:02:21 In .nl it's very random, some packages get intercepted, others travel freely without getting inspected. Mar 07 00:02:34 * stefan_schmidt is confident that the 'engineering' phrase will make it good Mar 07 00:02:37 Your Neo1973 Has been kidnapped by ninjas, are you a bad enough dude to rescue it? Mar 07 00:02:48 i've been fairly lucky with most packages, including one sent to the .nl Mar 07 00:04:55 peepsalot - Is that the first game on the neo? Mar 07 00:05:52 well, maybe if someone makes an NES emulator for it... ;-) Mar 07 00:06:53 * Elrond imagines kids sitting in the bus, holding the neo landscape and touching like mad on the screen to fight the ninjas. ;o) Mar 07 00:07:10 lol Mar 07 00:08:02 stefan_schmidt: I hope for you too Mar 07 00:08:16 stefan_schmidt: I usually find out a week later whether I've escaped extra charges Mar 07 00:08:16 hmm, i guess multiplayer games could be played over BT, hadn't considered that before Mar 07 00:08:21 If the neo overlives that, it's robust. ;) Mar 07 00:08:27 peepsalot: it's pretty common ;) Mar 07 00:08:36 * SpeedEvil ponders. Mar 07 00:08:48 What games could you do with multiple BT headsets? Mar 07 00:08:56 (and people) Mar 07 00:09:04 music-based ones I guess Mar 07 00:09:07 most games would not work well with the Neo's lack of buttons though Mar 07 00:09:23 SpeedEvil - All sorts of fun at public places like railway stations. ;) Mar 07 00:09:24 I can see 1D flyers. Mar 07 00:09:30 SpeedEvil: as well as telephone-type games 'he-said, she-said'... Mar 07 00:09:44 with the control along one edge. Mar 07 00:10:41 PONG! Mar 07 00:10:57 Breakout. Mar 07 00:11:47 wrt BT games... I tried my hand at doin' BT on an old TapWave... it was a painful experience Mar 07 00:11:58 Tapwave? Mar 07 00:12:15 I've yet to try again with the Nokia 770 Mar 07 00:12:21 Well, the screen can be abused like a normal laptop touchpad... and we have two buttons. ;) Mar 07 00:12:28 doing BT from J2ME is fairly nice, but that's a good way away for the Neo Mar 07 00:12:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapwave Mar 07 00:12:41 it was a PalmOS device Mar 07 00:12:52 laid out like a PSP or NNintendo DS Mar 07 00:13:10 Cool technology, bad marketing Mar 07 00:13:34 Ah. Mar 07 00:13:38 is PhoneME same as J2ME? Mar 07 00:13:50 But... Bluez seems to be stable, though a middleware component for net/bt/zigbee games would be cool.. Mar 07 00:14:10 D'oh! everyone else took one step back and left me to volunteer! Mar 07 00:14:30 I guess that's what you get for hanging out on IRC channels related to open source projects Mar 07 00:14:35 but seriously Mar 07 00:14:38 mhamrick - For what did you volunteer? Mar 07 00:15:32 a simple connection library that can work over BT/Zigbee/Net without the app (game) programmer having to worry about the details Mar 07 00:16:00 I'm currently doing some low-level DBUS hacking Mar 07 00:16:11 what's zigbee? Mar 07 00:16:33 Hm, a Zodiac, sounds like an appealing device still. Mar 07 00:16:42 so a DBUS service that manages such things is on my roadmap Mar 07 00:16:52 peepsalot: a wireless standard somewhat like bluetooth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee Mar 07 00:16:53 though mostly for key management instead of games Mar 07 00:17:18 yeah... I don't think the Neo1973 is going to have Zigbee Mar 07 00:17:35 mhamrick - Ohh... now I know, who to ask, if/when I start at dbus. ;o) Mar 07 00:17:36 but one of the HBMobile phones under design now will. Mar 07 00:17:49 feel free to ask Mar 07 00:18:11 my answers may be "oh... it's obvious... just look at the source!" ;-) Mar 07 00:18:42 Actually... enough has happened with DBUS that entirely new tutorials and manuals are probably in order Mar 07 00:18:49 does the Neo have a zigbee capable device in it? Mar 07 00:18:57 You mean s/just look at the source/RTFS Mar 07 00:18:57 nm Mar 07 00:19:10 If I ever get a free cycle Mar 07 00:19:39 mhamrick - If BT and zigbee are compatible: Yes. Otherwise: No. Mar 07 00:19:56 peeps... I don't think the Neo's going to have Zigbee, but I hear of people talking about Zigbee SD cards Mar 07 00:20:09 whoah Mar 07 00:20:14 And I'm going to integrate Zigbee into my myPhone design Mar 07 00:20:29 openmoko is a whole lot more responsive than GPE or OPIE on the same device Mar 07 00:21:04 yeah... I've unfortunately only seen an old version of hte software working on modern Neo hardware Mar 07 00:21:15 Hm, what's different to openmoko compared to GPE? Mar 07 00:21:30 It was "not bad" in terms of responsiveness, but I hear a lot of UI work has gone down recently Mar 07 00:21:34 * balrog-kun is testing a Sunday build Mar 07 00:21:56 cool... I've got to hurry up and get some hardware Mar 07 00:22:09 SuN: the whole interface is.. well, like on a phone, rather than a PDA Mar 07 00:22:23 I mean performance-wise. Mar 07 00:22:28 buttons are huge and few Mar 07 00:22:34 All in all GPE is just an x server with a bar and a desktop. Mar 07 00:22:43 performance wise it's hard to tell but it makes an impression of being a lot faster Mar 07 00:22:49 In my day job I use a HTC Apache to test our app, I keep thinkging about putting OPIE, OpenMoKo, GPE, or something on it Mar 07 00:23:43 but I'll probably just wait until I have "real" hardware. Mar 07 00:24:52 now i just need to figure out these ECC errors before boot... Mar 07 00:28:50 can apps use the full screen if needed? including top & bottom panels? Mar 07 00:29:00 is there a defconfig for neo1973 somewhere? Mar 07 00:29:05 peepsalot: yes. Mar 07 00:29:11 there's none in the patchset Mar 07 00:29:58 balrog-kun: there must be, since mokomakefile builds a kernel.. Mar 07 00:31:13 peepsalot - It's plain X11. You could run xlock and be screed. ;o) Mar 07 00:33:43 cjb: ok, there seems to be one in a separate directory in the svn Mar 07 01:27:58 are the bottom bar icons (two squares and three squares) supposed to do anything? :p Mar 07 01:29:18 oh that's footer area Mar 07 02:12:40 sup all Mar 07 02:12:48 i am very interested in this phone Mar 07 02:12:54 and i been readin the wiki Mar 07 02:13:01 :) Mar 07 02:13:06 but like where will it be avaiable to buy? Mar 07 02:13:06 ghostisgray: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 07 02:13:13 late march Mar 07 02:13:24 where though? Mar 07 02:13:30 $350 - for the development version, Sep for end-user. Mar 07 02:13:42 from the website - not announced yet. Mar 07 02:13:48 direct ship. Mar 07 02:13:52 from a 7-11 near you :) Mar 07 02:13:57 September, it may be in shops. Mar 07 02:14:02 Depending on things. Mar 07 02:14:10 i want the devolop version Mar 07 02:14:18 want to play with it =] Mar 07 02:14:34 ghostisgray: join the club :) Mar 07 02:14:39 That's late march then, purchased online from the store that will prolly open soon. Mar 07 02:14:44 im interested in multiuser, bluetooth apps Mar 07 02:14:47 There is a link to mailing lists on the wiki. Mar 07 02:15:05 ghostisgray: say 'counter' to see how long until you can buy one Mar 07 02:15:09 and there is an 'announce' list, whihc will announce when it is ready to buy Mar 07 02:15:19 counter Mar 07 02:15:20 P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 09:44:40 (25.406 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (492) Mar 07 02:15:26 hot Mar 07 02:16:14 its time to give the openmoko makefile another try. i always seem to have to leave before it finishes Mar 07 02:16:56 don't use the: make haste option then Mar 07 02:17:29 make haste? is that makefile-nerd humor? :) Mar 07 02:17:35 barely. ;) Mar 07 02:17:48 Makefile humor ftw! Mar 07 02:18:00 If you ever release something, don't forget funny targets from the makefile Mar 07 02:18:05 im so salavating at the picture Mar 07 02:18:07 hot Mar 07 02:18:19 < phone geek Mar 07 02:19:01 ghostisgray, if you're a phone geek, you might like http://phonelabs.com/prd05.asp Mar 07 02:19:10 i think if you're in the channel, you're pretty much a phone geek Mar 07 02:19:35 * newmedian is waiting for my Dock-N-Talk to arrive this week Mar 07 02:20:39 quick stupid question that pic on flicker, thats what the devoloper version comes with? Mar 07 02:21:50 only a few ship w/ a debug board and adapter, but besides that, yes Mar 07 02:22:25 don-o: I'm around if you're trying out MokoMakefile ... Mar 07 02:22:30 * newmedian wonders if the current debug board will work with the slightly newer hardware revisions over the coming months, or whether a different debug board will be required Mar 07 02:22:38 rwhitby: cool, thanks. Mar 07 02:22:58 rwhitby: doing make setup now, this is an ubuntu laptop. Mar 07 02:22:59 it built from scratch for me last night with no errors. Mar 07 02:23:11 watch out for /bin/sh linked to dash then Mar 07 02:23:51 rwhitby: yes /bin/sh is linked to dash. ive never heard of dash before. Mar 07 02:24:03 your build will fail if that is the case Mar 07 02:24:11 what should it be Mar 07 02:24:24 do a google on it - you will see lots of discussion Mar 07 02:24:41 should it link to bash? Mar 07 02:24:44 it "should" be dash, but needs to be bash for anything much to build. Mar 07 02:25:04 ghostisgray, if you go to http://planet.openmoko.org/ and scroll down a little bit to where the "Phase 0 is shipping!" entry is, it has a packing list of items included in the Phase 0 shipment. Mar 07 02:25:10 (not only moko stuff, anything that assumes /bin/sh is actually bash - bad assumption, but lots of stuff assumes it) Mar 07 02:26:01 rwhitby: thanks for the tip. ive changed it to point to bash Mar 07 02:29:43 the monotone pull takes forever. Mar 07 02:32:42 "revs in" is 24/2,914 at what looks like 1 rev every 5 seconds! Mar 07 02:33:04 do you have an old monotone version? Mar 07 02:33:15 (the older version snapshots are old in time too) Mar 07 02:33:31 my net connection is pretty good, got 253kbytes/sec downloading OE-...0.31.mnt.bz2 Mar 07 02:33:37 checking the version Mar 07 02:33:42 0.31 Mar 07 02:34:01 monotone 0.31 Mar 07 02:34:03 latest is 0.32 - you will need to incur the big pull once, and will be fine after that. Mar 07 02:34:21 howcome if I do 'make' I get | ERROR: Nothing provides dependency openmoko-devel-image Mar 07 02:34:28 ? Mar 07 02:34:31 pjz: no idea. Mar 07 02:34:36 ever since I did a 'make update' with mokomakefile Mar 07 02:34:53 pastebin a log of everything from "make update-makefile ; make update ; make setup ; make" Mar 07 02:35:04 ahhh, needed to do a make setup I buet Mar 07 02:35:05 bet Mar 07 02:35:09 trying that now Mar 07 02:35:43 rwhitby: if i do a make setup on a different machine and copy the /moko directory to the laptop, would that work? Mar 07 02:36:00 yep, should do, if the paths remain the same. Mar 07 02:36:22 (and the monotone version remains the same) Mar 07 02:36:46 hmm - there is a subversion working directory discontinuity at version 1.4.0 of subversion too Mar 07 02:37:01 so "it should work" :-) Mar 07 02:43:46 3/7/2007 11:59 am Arrived at DHL facility. Adelaide, Australia Mar 07 02:43:58 * rwhitby jumps in the car to drive to the airport to pick it up ... Mar 07 02:47:16 oh my gosh. go rwhitby! Mar 07 02:49:58 Doh! I just remembered I caught the bus to work today! Mar 07 02:50:19 oh noes! Mar 07 02:50:26 denied Mar 07 02:50:40 p0wned Mar 07 02:58:46 hmph: Mar 07 02:58:54 learn:cjb~/devirginate-20070301 % ./tmp/openocd -f ./tmp/openocd-debugv2.cfg Mar 07 02:58:54 Info: openocd.c:84 main(): Open On-Chip Debugger (2007-01-31 12:00 CET) Mar 07 02:58:54 Error: ft2232.c:1351 ft2232_init(): unable to open ftdi device: device not found **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 07 02:59:57 2007