**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 15 02:59:59 2007 Mar 15 03:06:07 Hey there. Mar 15 03:07:41 While I can't really provide much in terms of direct development, I'd love to supply testing and feedback. I'm rather good at that... Mar 15 03:08:41 hey Draconicus, fancy meeting you here Mar 15 03:09:26 Hehe Mar 15 03:09:45 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1367 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (callbacks.c mokoiconview.c mokoiconview.h): bug fix: add mokoiconview cursor move up and down functions to avoid call sinal 'move cursor' cb function Mar 15 03:09:58 Well, one important question is: How will the phone system work in terms of providing? Mar 15 03:09:59 Draconicus: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 15 03:11:13 providing?? Mar 15 03:12:45 Well, how do you intend to make this work as a phone if it's entirely open? You can't sell the design to cell phone providers... Mar 15 03:13:20 there is a phone linked to the project, the FIC neo1973 Mar 15 03:13:20 user buys phone Mar 15 03:13:40 Yeah... Mar 15 03:13:47 I mean service, though... Mar 15 03:13:47 which is available at the end of the month direct from FIC for developers, just add a GSM SIM Mar 15 03:13:53 Oh. Mar 15 03:14:33 or you can wait till september, when it'll go on sale to the general public, through carriers Mar 15 03:15:43 Gotcha. Mar 15 03:16:40 the developer branch wont have completed software on it when it ships, it'll be an incremental upgrade over the next few months Mar 15 03:17:05 but apparently it'll have phone & sms functionality Mar 15 03:18:43 What I need most is the ability to set schedule alarms that displays its purpose in a text notice, but I imagine that sort of thing is wishlist material at best. Mar 15 03:18:52 yes Mar 15 03:19:04 If somebody ports cron onto it I can mess around with that, at least. Mar 15 03:20:41 No need to port Mar 15 03:20:45 Oh? Mar 15 03:20:48 It's a linux computer Mar 15 03:20:58 it just looks like a phone Mar 15 03:21:00 Right... I thought maybe for the architecture. Mar 15 03:21:05 Wasn't sure. Mar 15 03:21:13 So... does it have a local compiler, I imagine? Mar 15 03:21:17 You just compile. Mar 15 03:21:22 Not usually Mar 15 03:21:38 No reason you couldn't thiough Mar 15 03:21:44 Well, how do I go about compiling for it, anyway? Mar 15 03:21:58 cross-compile. Mar 15 03:22:05 Look on the wiki Mar 15 03:22:14 Eh... I'm not very experienced with that. Oh. Good. Wiki. Yeah, I'll look it up. Thanks. Mar 15 03:22:26 This is great. Perfect timing for me to start needing one badly, eh? Mar 15 03:23:04 It recently occured to me that I've become horribly disorganized and need something portable that can help with it. Mar 15 03:23:12 Linux based, though. :P Mar 15 03:23:26 Anyway, I must try to avoid off-topicness Mar 15 03:26:44 Hmm... For the sake of convenience, I think my first action will be trying to compile gcc for use with this device. Will I be running into any unusual dependencies? Mar 15 03:28:34 have a look at mokomakefile Draconicus Mar 15 03:29:50 Ah. Handy. :D Mar 15 06:01:23 counter Mar 15 06:01:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 05:58:36 (17.249 +-7.0 days) (541) Mar 15 07:02:29 * rwhitby runs devirginate from an NSLU2 to reflash the neo Mar 15 07:03:13 hmm, what do you mean ?-) Mar 15 07:03:31 do they have the same flashing interface? Mar 15 07:03:45 or.. does the same software work for both? Mar 15 07:04:28 I mean instead of plugging the debug board and neo into a linux desktop, i have cross-compiled all the tools (ftdi, openocd, dfu-util, etc) to arm, and have run devirginator on the nslu2 to reflash the neo Mar 15 07:04:43 this means that you could use a neo (which is also an ARM) to reflash another neo. Mar 15 07:05:20 :D Mar 15 07:05:31 (the flashing interface for the bootloader is the debug board, which has a usb interface, and the flashing interace for the kernel and rootfs is direct to the neo via usb. the nslu2 has two usb ports :-) Mar 15 07:05:32 but you still need the debug board.. Mar 15 07:05:38 only for the bootloader. Mar 15 07:06:10 yeah Mar 15 07:06:13 the rest you could do from neo to neo with just a cable (and maybe a powered hub in between - dunno yet, cause I don't have two neos) Mar 15 07:06:25 I already thought you meant you could do without the debug board.. :) Mar 15 07:06:58 rwhitby, maybe you could have neo flash itself if you had a cable from neo to its own debug board :D Mar 15 07:07:50 for flashing root filesystem you might want to have it in microSD Mar 15 07:08:18 (current one that is, usually not good idea to change active filesystem at low level ;-) Mar 15 07:15:24 any openmoko enthusiasts in aussie? Mar 15 07:15:43 yup, there is a phase0 device here in Adelaide. Mar 15 07:19:05 your one of the lucky ones Mar 15 07:22:19 openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1368 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/layouts/ (4 files): Remove old config file Mar 15 07:26:16 U-Boot 1.2.0-moko6 (Mar 15 2007 - 07:11:11) Mar 15 07:26:54 rwhitby: cool Mar 15 07:27:31 ... built by MokoMakefile of course, on a CentOS 4 box. Mar 15 07:27:57 Linux version 2.6.20.2-moko8 (rwhitby@ ... Mar 15 07:29:19 OpenMoKo .dev-snapshot-20070310 fic-gta01 ttySAC0 Mar 15 07:30:02 what does this output?: Mar 15 07:30:03 time dd bs=1k if=/dev/mmcblk0p1 of=/dev/zero count=100000 Mar 15 07:31:18 * aloril will update wiki of course Mar 15 07:34:52 is there an openmoko emulator like TT ships with the greenphone? Mar 15 07:35:23 Does the greenphone run full X? Mar 15 07:35:39 faq? Mar 15 07:35:40 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Mar 15 07:35:40 no Mar 15 07:36:17 Ok. You can test openmoko with Xoo/Xephyr on regular X :) Mar 15 07:36:52 But I don't think there's any finished package or setup yet Mar 15 07:37:15 aloril: that command took real 27.71s (user 0.1s, sys 24.96s) here. Mar 15 07:38:04 pH5: cool, quite fast, a bit below 4MB/s Mar 15 07:38:10 aloril: is the phase0 review page linked onto the main page? I can never find it Mar 15 07:38:38 * rwhitby praises aloril for putting the microsd quick start on the phase0 review page :-) Mar 15 07:38:51 hmm.. probably not, its linked from FAQ and Neo1973 pages though Mar 15 07:40:47 real 0m 38.18s, user 0m 0.18s, sys 0m 35.96s Mar 15 07:41:27 rwhitby: running at 200MHz? Mar 15 07:41:28 pH5: do you have bundled card or some other? Mar 15 07:41:36 aloril: bundled 128M sandisk at 266MHz Mar 15 07:41:54 200MHz here Mar 15 07:41:58 does the sd controller frequency change with the cpu frequency? Mar 15 07:42:00 (debug board connected) Mar 15 07:45:53 * rwhitby sees if an ipkg upgrade completes successfully now ... Mar 15 07:47:20 added link to [[Main Page]] below "Neo1973 Phase 0" Mar 15 07:47:26 aloril: thx Mar 15 07:47:31 * rwhitby is sooo lazy Mar 15 07:48:47 [[Neo1973]] page too surprising amount of time, will try to keep it up to date (a bit wiki presence to counter) Mar 15 07:48:58 s/too/took Mar 15 07:49:21 * aloril too lazy too, should have done [[Neo1973]] update long ago ;-) Mar 15 07:49:53 * aloril wonders if being connected to debug board has effect on speed? Mar 15 07:52:45 aloril, wasn't it so you could run openmoko at max 200MHz with debug board connected Mar 15 07:52:53 * xkr47 doesn't otoh know whether it goes to 266 by default otherwise Mar 15 07:53:53 no, it's 200 by default, but you can bump that up to 266 with a u-boot command. But 266 is apparently unstable when debug board is attached (I haven't tried it myself). Mar 15 07:54:54 okay :) Mar 15 07:55:03 xkr47: hmmm.. speed_difference_ratio / (266/200) = 1.036 Mar 15 07:55:25 so.. if it has extra effect, its not big but might be there? Mar 15 07:56:12 I'm glad that the latest kernel is much quieter now. Mar 15 07:56:40 is that a general 2.6 feature or some moko-specific ? Mar 15 07:57:14 there was just a whole lot of continuous kernel debug stuff being printed to the console for P0 devices (pcf50606 stuff). It's now gone. Mar 15 07:57:31 oh Mar 15 07:57:33 yeah :) Mar 15 07:58:25 now I just need a second neo to really test the self-hosting for bare-metal reflash assertion, Mar 15 07:58:35 counter Mar 15 07:58:36 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 04:01:24 (17.168 +-7.0 days) (542) Mar 15 08:00:01 hmm.. I will add new autotrigger at some point: blurb here if www.openmoko.com changes Mar 15 08:00:43 maybe blurb for announce mailing list mails too? Mar 15 08:01:22 (btw.. added SD read speed results to wiki) Mar 15 08:01:54 read speed was faster than I thought, always nice surprise Mar 15 08:07:51 aloril: and I have this in my log: Mar 15 08:07:54 <4>mmc0: Problem switching card into high-speed mode! Mar 15 08:07:58 <6>s3c2410-sdi s3c2410-sdi: running at 16625kHz (requested: 25000kHz). Mar 15 08:09:51 usually small cards are slow, so I guess not surprise Mar 15 08:10:25 but still interesting, ultra II could be 1.5x faster? Mar 15 08:13:19 aloril: I guess. ultra 2 is advertised with min. 10M/s read speed. theoretical max. would be 12M/s instead of currently 8, so a factor 1.5 doesn't sound entirely unreasonable. Mar 15 08:14:38 that poses dilemma: get 1GB Ultra II or 2GB normal? (though I guess 2GB normal might already be enough fast) Mar 15 08:14:50 aloril: get 2GB ultra II ;) Mar 15 08:15:05 * aloril goes checking availability Mar 15 08:16:48 it is available (just not locally yet) Mar 15 08:31:27 Hi guys. Just checking out the Wiki about the WiFi question... Mar 15 08:31:44 I see the AR6K is mentioned there as one of the possibilities. Mar 15 08:32:24 How about the AR5006 chips? Anybody know the difference? Mar 15 08:35:08 Does anyone know if they have GPL drivers for it? Mar 15 08:37:15 I don't know for sure but I researched a bit last night and it seems the AR5006 chips work with madwifi. Mar 15 08:42:43 it's not 100% open source Mar 15 08:42:48 there's a bin hal Mar 15 08:46:50 Hrmm Mar 15 08:47:43 and for what it says on the web page i gather it's meant for laptops etc Mar 15 08:48:08 looks like it yeah, while the AR6K chips aren't. Mar 15 08:49:01 I wonder if for any of these chips you could even get near the source of the firmware. Mar 15 08:49:33 would be kinda fun to be able to put your Neo in host mode :P Mar 15 08:50:00 you can do that, i think Mar 15 08:50:17 well I mean access point host mode. Mar 15 08:50:28 mm Mar 15 08:50:40 and you can't do that yet as there's no wifi chip in it yet. Mar 15 08:51:38 yeah Mar 15 08:53:58 well I'd be thrilled if it could do WPA-E... Mar 15 08:58:26 hmm check out http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS3141723896.html Mar 15 09:00:18 so the neo might have wifi after all? Mar 15 09:01:22 if a proper chip is found...that's the consensus at the moment Mar 15 09:02:33 wow, very cool! Mar 15 09:03:25 you read that page guaqua? Mar 15 09:03:30 nothing's certain, however Mar 15 09:03:38 fredl: the one in sean's e-mail? Mar 15 09:03:52 no the URL I just pasted. Mar 15 09:03:58 yes Mar 15 09:04:04 also its for P1+ (June or later) Mar 15 09:05:13 LaF0rge, there ? Mar 15 09:05:36 do you already have any pricing indications for the Wifi chipset? The STLC4420 is $9 each for 100.000 units. Mar 15 09:06:50 planned for Q4 2006, I wonder if they're available already and if they truely support Linux. Mar 15 09:07:20 most importantly, the drivers need be gpl Mar 15 09:08:17 *nod* Mar 15 09:08:25 good morning Mar 15 09:08:33 the zcomax and embeddedworks modules could work Mar 15 09:08:44 but not at the current pricing Mar 15 09:09:01 buz: strictly GPL or BSD is also ok? :) Mar 15 09:09:13 i dont see why BSD should not be ok Mar 15 09:09:21 iirc, you can simply GPL BSD stuff so... Mar 15 09:10:34 so, mokomakefile actuelly worked last night! Mar 15 09:10:58 buz: just nitpicking Mar 15 09:13:32 hmm ST microelectronics is headquartered in Switzerland. Mar 15 09:14:18 I could call them and ask about the STLC4420 having a GPL driver, would that be helpfull? Mar 15 09:14:58 i think it wouldn't hurt :) Mar 15 09:15:11 you should also write about your efforts to the wiki Mar 15 09:18:03 fredl: ST is in France, Italy, Switzerland, UK. Mar 15 09:18:11 but writing it down on the wiki first is a good idea Mar 15 09:18:12 fredl: at least for their dev centers. Mar 15 09:19:20 asking for votes of which autotrigger features I should add: Mar 15 09:19:24 a) blurb here if http://www.openmoko.com changes Mar 15 09:19:29 b) blurb here if new announce mail Mar 15 09:19:33 c) blurb here if new mail from Sean Moss-Pultz to community,openmoko-devel Mar 15 09:19:38 d) blurb here if new mail from Harald Welte or Michael 'Mickey' Lauer Mar 15 09:19:43 e) blurb here if new mail from Mike or Renaissance Man Mar 15 09:20:20 aloril, f) none Mar 15 09:20:31 :) Mar 15 09:21:46 I added the STLC4420 to the wiki, I might get a chance today to ask them if they have any GPL'ed drivers. Mar 15 09:21:46 rd_: that is easiest thing to add ;-) Mar 15 09:21:48 brb Mar 15 09:22:04 e) is joke of course ;-) Mar 15 09:22:20 what, a joke? aww.... Mar 15 09:23:10 anyway, no opinion reallly Mar 15 09:24:35 aloril, update here on every single wiki change Mar 15 09:25:40 parag0n: hmm.. yeah, I guess that makes sense (though bundle them if many of course) Mar 15 09:26:03 and not for 'm' Mar 15 09:29:07 maybe once an hour provide links to all the hour's changes Mar 15 09:29:20 grouping anything thats been edited multiple times Mar 15 09:31:39 or alternatively react immediately, but then go to 15 min 'sleep' and bundle all updates (if any), also group for same page (maybe filter out translations/user pages) Mar 15 09:32:18 well, as long as wiki mods won't be popping up every minute :) Mar 15 09:32:31 mjr: yeah Mar 15 09:32:38 mornin' Mar 15 09:33:59 maybe just list pages that have been edited last hour (and be quiet of course if none) Mar 15 09:54:54 Hey, the name and physical details of the graphics chip are all well and good, but how does it perform? What can it do? Can somebody give me a rough benchmark? Mar 15 10:00:41 add some test request here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review ? Mar 15 10:02:03 morning mickeyl Mar 15 10:02:08 morning Mar 15 10:04:34 Draconicus: in general, its dumb framebuffer device though Mar 15 10:05:24 Hmm.. Well, I was hoping I might be able to get an SDL based SNES emulator working on it. :P Mar 15 10:05:24 hey mickeyl: did you see the devirginate from a slug? Mar 15 10:05:31 this is not autotrigger, but you might be interested on this change: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&curid=1&diff=6504&oldid=6499 Mar 15 10:05:41 rwhitby: yes, that's a nice achievement! Mar 15 10:05:49 Draconicus: yes, it should work i think Mar 15 10:07:03 mickeyl: got the debug board reset button hooked up to a serial controlled relay too (which also controls the power to the slug), so it's a fully remote test rig. Mar 15 10:07:10 (+8 hours) Mar 15 10:07:51 http://www.flickr.com/photos/rwhitby/sets/72157594574977123/ Mar 15 10:08:26 Has anybody made voltage measurements for bug #255? I'm considering to let my battery run out, recording battemp/battvolt to sd. Mar 15 10:08:26 (having the jtag header pins on the debug board saved me having to solder to the actual switch) Mar 15 10:09:23 * balrog-kun did a similar experiment on Palm T|E when adding APM support some time ago, Mar 15 10:10:02 basically a bash script that sleeps 5 secs and then makes 5 measuremens and echoes them to a file on the SD, in a loop Mar 15 10:11:22 you can make a nice gunplot graphic afterwards :) Mar 15 10:15:21 It would be nice if I could have a functioning Neo over the summer, to bring with me on vacation! Mar 15 10:15:46 dang that'd be cool. Are there european maps available already? Mar 15 10:17:02 fredl: umm.. anywhere there is GSM? Mar 15 10:17:52 If you mean for GPS - well, no. Mar 15 10:18:14 yeah I mean GPS. Mar 15 10:18:16 Theere are no free maps of most areas. Mar 15 10:19:10 Hmm Mar 15 10:19:50 Tomtom may be a solution, if they decide to release one for the neo. Mar 15 10:20:45 also look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ Mar 15 10:22:03 of course you all realise that GPS doesn't work yet, right? Mar 15 10:22:50 nope. Mar 15 10:22:55 didn't realize that. Mar 15 10:23:00 no driver? Mar 15 10:23:13 No. Mar 15 10:23:19 They are working on it. Mar 15 10:24:25 They being the GPS vendor Mar 15 10:24:31 that's a nice mapviewer they have on that site aloril. Mar 15 10:24:38 reminds me a fair bit of google maps. Mar 15 10:25:40 Google has tons of maps, hmm. Mar 15 10:26:19 couldn't google maps somehow be used I wonder. Mar 15 10:26:25 Not legally. Mar 15 10:26:44 You can't legally download whole regions and use in your own mapper Mar 15 10:27:18 what if you get a permission from google? Mar 15 10:27:23 You won't. Mar 15 10:27:25 ok Mar 15 10:27:34 information wants to be free right? :) Mar 15 10:27:38 Because their map providers won't let them. Mar 15 10:27:44 unless you have boatloads of money maybe ;-) Mar 15 10:27:49 Map information is _expensive_ to buy. Mar 15 10:27:50 :p Mar 15 10:27:58 i think viking caches google maps images (viking.sf.net) Mar 15 10:28:44 read the googlemaps eula Mar 15 10:28:52 well you could, say, do some sort of spot loading. When you want to find out where the heck you are, through your phone connection you could download some area centered around your GPS readings. Mar 15 10:29:32 should be a hell of expensive to dl stuff via gprs Mar 15 10:29:46 Depends. Mar 15 10:29:54 In some cases it's free Mar 15 10:30:04 well, here it's ~0.25$ / Mb Mar 15 10:30:09 flat rates are available in some places cheap - $us15/mo Mar 15 10:30:19 Here it's $90/mo++ Mar 15 10:30:25 (UK) Mar 15 10:30:26 here is $5/MB Mar 15 10:30:44 Or around that per meg if you don't go flat. Mar 15 10:30:50 5 Mar 15 10:30:59 rwhitby: you're in adelaide right? im guessing it'd be the same all around australia Mar 15 10:31:01 hmm, coffee time. Mar 15 10:31:43 Is OpenID used by anything currently? Mar 15 10:31:51 SpeedEvil: I pay £7.50 a month Mar 15 10:32:05 In the UK? Mar 15 10:32:08 SpeedEvil: yes Mar 15 10:32:09 Good Midday, people. ;-) Mar 15 10:32:15 SpeedEvil: Web N Walk tariff Mar 15 10:32:16 Who with Mar 15 10:32:21 Isn't that 3G only? Mar 15 10:32:27 SpeedEvil: nope Mar 15 10:32:31 who with? Mar 15 10:32:36 SpeedEvil: t-mobile Mar 15 10:37:14 Or in total a 30 quid/mo contract. Mar 15 10:37:32 I don't really make enough calls to make a contract worthwhile otherwise. Mar 15 10:38:00 So that'd realistically put it all onto the net pricing. Mar 15 10:38:03 :( Mar 15 10:38:09 * SpeedEvil checks their PAYGoptions. Mar 15 10:39:05 Hmm. Mar 15 10:39:43 7p/K capped at a pound per day. Mar 15 10:40:27 Realistically, that'd be around the same - as I'd be hitting the cap every day. Mar 15 10:42:56 SpeedEvil - You do a lot gprs?! Mar 15 10:43:17 Elrond: I do around 100M a month Mar 15 10:44:12 No. Mar 15 10:45:00 On that plan - the PAYG data - you get a capped price (1 pound) at over 14K Mar 15 10:45:07 Which isn't really hard to hit. Mar 15 10:47:07 ahh Mar 15 11:08:10 openmoko: 03laforge * r1369 10/trunk/oe/packages/openocd/ (4 files): we want to have the _native_ openocd in the deploy directory, not the target crosscompiled one (Noted by XorA) Mar 15 11:14:20 LaF0rge: i reported that one as http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235, including a patch. Mar 15 11:17:35 LaF0rge: I think you'll need to add FILESDIR to openocd-native_svn.bb, so it can find the openocd-link-static.patch (since it's in an openocd subir, instead of a common 'files' subdir) Mar 15 11:35:05 counter Mar 15 11:35:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 00:24:54 (17.017 +-7.0 days) (543) Mar 15 11:41:34 hi, is there the responsable of http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html ? the "Neoforms" link near the bottom is broken Mar 15 11:46:40 http://www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Neologics.pdf is ther ight link Mar 15 11:46:53 dunno whp's the site maintainer. Mar 15 11:48:28 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r56 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (openocd.patch series): Removed openocd patch - an equivalent patch has been committed in OM svn. Mar 15 11:48:35 God... why do houses in this country need to be SO futtbucking ugly! Mar 15 11:48:40 Mar 15 11:49:22 it's no better in the UK Mar 15 11:49:32 it's WAY better in the UK Stephmw Mar 15 11:49:42 give me some examples ;) Mar 15 11:49:56 I dispair here, the insides *and* the outsides are utter trash Mar 15 11:50:12 well II can't right now, what triggered me was a mailing that I get, being a company, for a combined home/office. Mar 15 11:50:47 so I don't have an URL now, but damn, it's rectangular, gloomy, and incredibly overpriced. Mar 15 11:51:27 I looked at the BBC this morning, and there was one of those new homeowner/buyer shows. Mar 15 11:51:43 ehr watched, what's happening with my english. Mar 15 11:52:09 those were fairly nice homes, relatively nice chunks of land in the country side. Mar 15 11:52:14 openmoko: 03dodji * r1370 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/src/ (today-events-area.c today-events-area.h): Mar 15 11:52:14 openmoko: Expose meaning signals, support on demand page switching Mar 15 11:52:14 openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c,h: expose signals Mar 15 11:52:14 openmoko: event-added, event-selected, page-switched. Mar 15 11:52:14 openmoko: Make the internals use these. Mar 15 11:52:16 openmoko: added today_events_area_switch_to_prev_page() and Mar 15 11:52:20 openmoko: today_events_area_switch_to_next_page(). Mar 15 11:52:29 yeah, there are nice houses around Mar 15 11:52:49 they're not the majority though Mar 15 11:53:24 I imagine it's like here, when you get to the country side where nobody can afford to live because of commuting expenses, all of the sudden the houses look like *houses* again Mar 15 11:54:20 but when it's near the work opportunities it quickly starts to look like some idiot architect felt he needed to make a rectangular gloomy point again, demonstrating his/her 'leet home designing skillz. Mar 15 11:54:26 aye Mar 15 11:55:19 I've been looking into moving just over the Dutch/German border. Mar 15 11:56:10 at least the Germans have some decent looking homebuilding skills, nicer bigger lots, less taxation, and friendlier people. Mar 15 11:56:34 well okay, the latter being debatable :P Mar 15 11:57:44 or just tell socialist Europe to go screw itself altogether and move to Oz or something. Mar 15 11:58:15 and as I need to be within easy commute of London, it means: shitty looking house (or flat!) and outrageous prices... the average now has gone above 250k GBP Mar 15 11:58:54 that's insane isn't it? Well from what it looks like in the US, the housing bubble may soon burst. Mar 15 11:59:59 problem is, timing is everything. I used to live in California, moved back to Europe just before I thought the housing bubble would burst... Mar 15 12:00:32 But the couple that bought my house must've made a killing out of it coz the prices went up even faster after we moved. Mar 15 12:01:37 * Stephmw sighs Mar 15 12:08:49 It's only a killing if you sell the house and buy in a lower priced region, or don't need a house any more. Mar 15 12:09:50 Houses as investment is an evil concept. Mar 15 12:11:02 openmoko: 03thomas * r1371 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/src/ (today-events-area.c today-main.c): Mar 15 12:11:02 openmoko: * openmoko-today/src/today-main.c: Pack the event area without an extra icon and Mar 15 12:11:02 openmoko: set some size and theme properties. Mar 15 12:11:02 openmoko: * openmoko-today/src/today-events-area.c: Set an appropriate widget name for the Mar 15 12:11:02 openmoko: left hand side area (for use by the theme) Mar 15 12:26:48 openmoko: 03thomas * r1372 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/ (4 files): * Add images and a gtkrc for openmoko-today Mar 15 12:34:36 Well if you can afford to buy a house in a cheaper region, rent it out, and let it increase in value before you sell it, what's wrong with that? Mar 15 12:34:43 Hy guys, I just tried to build OpenMoko (with the makefile); but I get this error: cp: cannot stat `/opt/moko/openembedded/packages/linux/linux/defconfig': No such file or directory Mar 15 12:37:36 fredl: Nothing - for you. It kind of screws those in that area though. Mar 15 12:38:00 why? They could buy a house themselves couldn't they? Mar 15 12:38:01 Especially as it's likely to be a low wage area. Meaning they now can't buy homes at all as the prices have shot up. Mar 15 12:38:21 Hmm Mar 15 12:38:24 SpeedEvil: aye, buy-to-let inventors should be shot. Mar 15 12:38:36 I keep being told to move to CA where I'd get paid 20% more Mar 15 12:38:51 Also means that women are forced to work, even if they don't want to, as staying at home to look after the children won't keep a roof over their heads. Mar 15 12:38:59 yeah but as it is you won't be able to buy a home in CA. Mar 15 12:39:08 thing is, I bought a 2100sq ft house for $130,000 - that's four times the size of the house I had in the UK for half the price Mar 15 12:39:14 As average male income in many prices won't cope with a house. Mar 15 12:39:27 which area do you live noidd? Mar 15 12:39:28 the same house in CA is in the $800,000's Mar 15 12:39:46 I live in Charlotte, NC - USA. It's awesome. Mar 15 12:39:57 oh near Redhat? :) Mar 15 12:40:12 High standard of living, low cost - second largest banking city in the US so a ton of UNIX jobs. Mar 15 12:40:28 bout 4 hours away Mar 15 12:40:49 Hmm sounds interesting. I've been looking into Texas. Lots of IT jobs there as well and reasonably priced homes. Mar 15 12:40:57 Thing is my wife wouldn't want to live there. Mar 15 12:40:59 that's also true Mar 15 12:41:11 Where are you living now? Mar 15 12:41:38 I've never been there, but she says it's hot as Hades over there, and even flatter than the Netherlands, where I live now. Mar 15 12:41:48 Yeah, it's pretty hot. Mar 15 12:41:59 Thing is, everything and everywhere is air conditioned Mar 15 12:42:13 well I remember that from living in CA. Mar 15 12:42:17 AC in house, Car, Work etc. Mar 15 12:42:20 towering energy bills.... Mar 15 12:42:39 oh, and Charlotte doesn't have rolling blackouts :-) Mar 15 12:42:50 Canada also still seems like an attractive country to move to, as does Oz. Mar 15 12:43:22 nobody can help me with the build process ? Mar 15 12:43:32 Jkx: what problem are you having? Mar 15 12:43:50 sorry Jkx, didn't mean to ignore you, I just haven't set up any build environment yet. Mar 15 12:43:58 with the makefile; but I get this error: cp: cannot stat `/opt/moko/openembedded/packages/linux/linux/defconfig': No such file or directory Mar 15 12:44:38 In fact I'm not getting anything done, as my dog died on Sunday and I'm kinda drained still :/ Mar 15 12:45:29 poor Zorro :/ Mar 15 12:45:33 Hmm, did you make any edits to the makefile before you ran it? Mar 15 12:45:39 I'm sorry man. Mar 15 12:46:03 thanks. He has been my family's pal for nearly 7 years. Mar 15 12:46:31 When our dog died he knew it was comming and was ok with it. Mar 15 12:46:43 Dogs almost seem more aware and mature when it comes to such things Mar 15 12:47:09 well Zorro died far too young and he had every reason to live, but heck it didn't work out that way. Mar 15 12:47:30 what did he die of? Mar 15 12:49:25 we don't know for sure. Most likely a heart attack or aneurism. Mar 15 12:50:06 openmoko: 03dodji * r1373 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c): Mar 15 12:50:06 openmoko: Emit the events-added signal Mar 15 12:50:06 openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c: don't forget to emit the signal Mar 15 12:50:06 openmoko: events-added, when edited. Mar 15 12:50:21 he had an infection on his chin, we had been treating it for a week or so and it was nearly gone. On sunday we woke up, he had barfed on the floor, well dogs do that sometimes... Mar 15 12:50:55 but shortly after we woke up he started barfing so violently that we think something might've popped. Mar 15 12:51:40 poor dog :( Mar 15 12:52:00 yeah, and poor kids, poor us too. Mar 15 12:52:16 sudden departures are always traumatic Mar 15 12:52:37 * Stephmw comforts fredl+household Mar 15 12:53:02 may be kinda hard to understand if you don't have pets... Mar 15 12:53:34 but they become part of the family, particularly Zorry, he had travelled all over the world with us, he was born in the US. Mar 15 12:53:41 * Stephmw nods Mar 15 12:53:50 we currently have a cat, she's the family baby Mar 15 12:54:18 http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephmw/117758971 Mar 15 12:55:15 *smile* I like cats too, we used to have a deaf albino cat before and while we had Zorro as a puppy. Mar 15 12:55:40 and Zorro would sneak up on her from behind and jump on her back with his big labrador puppy paws. Mar 15 12:56:17 lol, must've scared the poor thing Mar 15 12:56:51 nah, she knew she had nothing to fear from him. Mar 15 12:58:12 my wife put some pictures up on her livejournal, http://torenheksje.livejournal.com/ Mar 15 12:59:04 openmoko: 03laforge * r1374 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/setup.sh: always explicitly indicate the usb vendor/product id of the neo1973 to prevent accidential use with other DFU capable devices Mar 15 13:02:56 fredl: he was a cute dog :( Mar 15 13:07:29 tnx. Mar 15 13:07:44 German only: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html Mar 15 13:12:20 Hi all, can anyone help me with the information of the expected march 11th release of openmoko? Mar 15 13:13:40 somebody's *giving* away a 3 year old golden labrador because his kids are allergic to the dog.... Mar 15 13:13:43 fool. Mar 15 13:13:55 fredl: yeah ditch the kids Mar 15 13:14:22 make 'em wear masks. Mar 15 13:14:31 ;) Mar 15 13:14:50 get them de-sensitised Mar 15 13:15:12 my dear mother got herself desensitised from her cat allergy... drat. Mar 15 13:15:22 sorry guys, I'm just rendering the final frames of my TV show Mar 15 13:15:33 aww this is a cutie... http://fotos.marktplaats.nl/kopen/c/d8/z.b91e6471cd84a74cbddff861f83e2960.jpg Mar 15 13:15:43 sureshkumar: I'm not aware of a release at that date Mar 15 13:15:51 counter Mar 15 13:15:52 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 22:44:08 (16.947 +-7.0 days) (544) Mar 15 13:16:10 that's so freaking adorable.. Mar 15 13:16:20 sureshkumar: the next big thing is planned to happen in roughly two weeks Mar 15 13:16:41 but I couldn't stand just going and buying another dog so soon after ours has died. Mar 15 13:19:43 sureshkumar: read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 too Mar 15 13:39:22 stefan_schmidt: thanks for the ccc link, very nice interview Mar 15 13:39:48 vmaster: yeah :) Mar 15 13:52:25 hi, where can I get a openmoko/neo1973? Mar 15 13:52:25 nocloud1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 15 13:53:32 you can't yet - 350$, late march. Mar 15 13:54:56 ok. thanks. Mar 15 13:55:11 The wiki explains it all. Mar 15 13:56:27 actually you can get first part: OpenMoko (FAQ has links) Mar 15 13:56:50 yeah Mar 15 13:56:56 faq? Mar 15 13:56:56 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Mar 15 14:23:21 openmoko.com, mailing list and recent changes trigger in effect... Mar 15 14:23:46 (recentchanges is once/hour) Mar 15 14:24:00 hi Mar 15 14:24:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]] Mar 15 14:24:20 hi joss193 Mar 15 14:24:27 possible to send fm radio signal to radio reciever with openmoko neo ? Mar 15 14:24:28 joss193: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 15 14:25:20 joss193: not with default hardware, but using some USB gadget maybe? Mar 15 14:25:30 (needs powered USB hub) Mar 15 14:25:56 openmoko: 03rob * r1375 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/ (openmoko-contacts_svn.bb openmoko-dates_svn.bb): Mar 15 14:25:56 openmoko: Import the openmoko-{dates|contacts} bb files from OE since they include fixed Mar 15 14:25:56 openmoko: dependency info. Mar 15 14:26:04 perhaps bluetooth gadgets available also to do that? Mar 15 14:26:34 would be nice to have :) Mar 15 14:26:44 ah, that could work with stock Neo1973 I guess Mar 15 14:27:08 with drivers for the purpose Mar 15 14:27:39 alaril: has not anyone thouught about it? Mar 15 14:28:21 bluetooth->wifi thing? Mar 15 14:28:40 or are we talking FM radio? Mar 15 14:28:58 Vegar: yeah the one that ipod has Mar 15 14:29:03 fm transmitter Mar 15 14:29:17 we could fight ipod! :> Mar 15 14:29:36 it's not impossible to build a usb device to do that... Mar 15 14:29:55 just to do a wireless connection with a car amplifier and radio reciever Mar 15 14:29:56 isn't a headphone out all you really need for those fm transmitters? Mar 15 14:29:59 joss193: its possible somebody has thought about it, just doesn't come to my mind now Mar 15 14:30:13 * aloril refers to irc and mailing lists ;-) Mar 15 14:30:25 aloril: ok with default hardware? Mar 15 14:31:21 it's not possible with default hardware Mar 15 14:31:29 and i doubt it will be Mar 15 14:31:34 err Mar 15 14:31:36 there is no fm transmitter Mar 15 14:31:37 i think it's not gonna be Mar 15 14:31:57 but maybe there is suitable bluetooth gadget? Mar 15 14:33:01 (random etel report which mentions openmoko too: http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2007/03/etel-open-source-phone-crowd-talks-to.html ) Mar 15 14:34:07 the funny thing with business people is that they sometimes have no idea, how the products they sell are linked together Mar 15 14:35:01 omg gimme that with openomoko http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/101888788/ Mar 15 14:40:32 buz - $800+ ?!?! Mar 15 14:40:48 the Neo1973 was in the latest Mac|life compared to the iphone & prada phone Mar 15 14:40:59 2.5 neos ;-) Mar 15 14:41:04 the features stacked up comparably but was $150 less than the iphone & less than half the prada Mar 15 14:41:19 and *doesn't* require a 2-yr life-binding agreement :) Mar 15 14:41:41 buz: I guess v2 will be what you really want Mar 15 14:41:56 i also dont want to wait Mar 15 14:42:02 hehe Mar 15 14:42:02 ajturner, have u check N800? :) Mar 15 14:42:35 so far no spamming by script .. hopefully it stays that way Mar 15 14:43:06 guys, where can I get gsmd source code? Mar 15 14:43:06 Ryback_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 15 14:43:16 :-) Mar 15 14:43:17 360USD for N800 and u get alot of things Mar 15 14:43:28 Not a V12. Mar 15 14:43:31 but no gsm Mar 15 14:43:38 rd_ I have an N800 Mar 15 14:43:48 ajturner, how is it? Mar 15 14:43:55 it is nice, but lacking real s/w Mar 15 14:44:05 which I think is OpenMoko's (Sean's) worry Mar 15 14:44:09 great hardware, lacking what to do with it Mar 15 14:44:10 IMO, unless you can use the hardware for what you want, you can't really cout it fully. Mar 15 14:44:16 count Mar 15 14:44:21 there are many cool project coming up for it, but it's def not consumer-ready Mar 15 14:44:39 For example, cameras that you can only send pics as mms, and can't save them to computer. Mar 15 14:44:42 rd_ and it still requires a phone for GPRS :) Mar 15 14:44:42 i would have wished to have n800 sceen on neo Mar 15 14:44:54 Or ringtones that you can only purchase. Mar 15 14:44:58 buz - the neo has the highest rez phone of the iPhone & Prada which was another + Mar 15 14:45:12 i haven't seen an neo in person, but sounds like it will be comparable Mar 15 14:45:26 the N800 does have Wifi & bt, which is a plus, but no built-in gps Mar 15 14:46:20 I think the N800 & the Neo will make a great pair Mar 15 14:46:31 esp if they can sync ;) Mar 15 14:46:35 me too! Mar 15 14:46:49 or the neo can serve it's GPS over BT to the N800 Mar 15 14:46:53 well, ofcourse they can sync, we'll just make them :) Mar 15 14:47:10 Hadaka, well, exactly, when that happens - I added some notes on that to the SoC wiki page Mar 15 14:47:13 re: SyncML support Mar 15 14:47:14 and ofcourse neo can serve it's GPS over BT to the N800, because there should be no hardware limitation to that - only software Mar 15 14:47:33 Hadaka - still a big leap Mar 15 14:48:04 well, work Mar 15 14:48:12 having the Neo act as a "standard" bluetooth GPS appliance is such a common use case, that I'm betting 1 month tops before someone does it Mar 15 14:48:18 openmoko: 03rob * r1376 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates_svn.bb: Remove old build fix patch that is no longer needed. Mar 15 14:55:50 bluetooth can actually work on linux? Mar 15 14:56:11 sure, why not? Mar 15 14:56:49 hi Mar 15 14:58:31 because bluetooth is a mess Mar 15 14:58:32 btw - wasn't there a link to a VMWare image for OE? Mar 15 14:58:38 I can't find the link Mar 15 14:58:44 a qemu image rather Mar 15 14:59:12 loufoque - found that, was trying to convert it to a vmware image :) Mar 15 14:59:21 thought I saw an VMWare one as well Mar 15 14:59:24 loufoque: in my experience the linux bt stack is a lot more stable than any other - windows drivers were a mess, my nokia phone is just horrible, but on linux it just works Mar 15 14:59:31 had trouble converting it (or running it) on mymac Mar 15 15:00:14 vmaster - the bt stack on my nokia 6600 (series60) is great Mar 15 15:00:43 i've got a 6230, and it regularly locks up Mar 15 15:00:51 but then, the whole firmware isn't really that great Mar 15 15:01:12 it's one of the first though, and maybe an upgrade could solve that Mar 15 15:02:13 well my 6600 is wonked in other ways, won't run nokia widsets, opera, and others, but the BT always works! :) Mar 15 15:02:39 hehehe Mar 15 15:03:25 Hi! Mar 15 15:04:03 does anyone know the solution for this fm media transmission? Mar 15 15:05:46 openmoko: 03rob * r1377 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates_svn.bb: Add missing '"'. Mar 15 15:13:31 openmoko: 03mickey * r1378 10/trunk/oe/packages/images/openmoko-image.bb: oe/images: add missing openmoko-image.bb. NOTE: require doesn't work across COLLECTIONS Mar 15 15:26:09 my battery voltage is down to 3630mV after 5h of running idle at 200MHz with full display brightness... Mar 15 15:28:25 Ok, I now have two job offers and I'm torn between the two Mar 15 15:28:31 what the hell do I do. Mar 15 15:28:53 both local? Mar 15 15:28:54 does the irc announcer take data from svn? Mar 15 15:29:01 if so how does it work, I'd like that in my project Mar 15 15:29:02 yeah, 1 block away from eachother Mar 15 15:29:11 one is with my existing company and they've moved me already Mar 15 15:29:14 the other just came through Mar 15 15:29:40 DesktopMa: http://cia.navi.cx/ Mar 15 15:30:36 great! thanks Mar 15 15:31:01 hmm can you keep the project private? Mar 15 15:32:01 that I have no idea Mar 15 15:32:08 I just knew where to google :) Mar 15 15:32:31 :) Mar 15 15:38:08 openmoko: 03dodji * r1379 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c src/today-events-area.h): (log message trimmed) Mar 15 15:38:08 openmoko: Properly set widget name to get proper styling Mar 15 15:38:08 openmoko: * applications/openmoko-today/src/today-events-area.c: Mar 15 15:38:08 openmoko: today_events_area_get_nb_pages(): new function Mar 15 15:38:08 openmoko: When events get added, compute the widget name accordingly. Mar 15 15:38:12 openmoko: The widget name depends on wheter there are multiple event Mar 15 15:38:14 openmoko: pages in the widget or not. Based on that name, the widget Mar 15 15:52:44 pH5: any actual confirmation that that is the real battery voltage? Mar 15 15:53:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Summer_of_code]] Mar 15 15:54:42 aloril2: Is this a rss feed to IRC script? Mar 15 15:55:19 There is a RSS feed of recent changes to the wiki? Mar 15 15:55:36 Or does it just poll [[special:recent changes]] Mar 15 15:59:06 * Stephmw starts a checkout before leaving for the day Mar 15 15:59:07 ... should be finished by tomorrow Mar 15 15:59:13 SpeedEvil: it's the BATVOLT adc reading from the pcf50606. Mar 15 15:59:33 pH5: True - it'd be nice to get actual confirmation that it's sort-of-right. Mar 15 15:59:57 Anyway - the curve tells you lots. Mar 15 16:00:11 * SpeedEvil hugs gnuplot. Mar 15 16:00:35 * SpeedEvil looks up his estimates. Mar 15 16:00:40 stefan: it polls recentchanges once/h using lynx -dump and notes certain new links and lists up to limit changed topics Mar 15 16:01:15 aloril: oh, isn't there a rss fed function in mediawiki for recent changes? Mar 15 16:01:36 also announce mails and sean/forge/mickey mails to community/devel trigger it Mar 15 16:01:59 also www.openmoko.com changes trigger it Mar 15 16:02:12 aloril2: cool :) Mar 15 16:02:36 Being optimistic, idle with display fully on should last some 10 hours. Mar 15 16:03:01 If GSM is off. maybe half an hour less if it's on. Mar 15 16:03:15 SpeedEvil: it just died, didn't even last 20000 seconds Mar 15 16:03:25 Oh well. Mar 15 16:03:33 Guess that's too optimistic :) Mar 15 16:04:00 mail is polled every minute and openmoko.com every 15 min Mar 15 16:04:42 What did it start out at? V=? 4.2? Mar 15 16:13:08 SpeedEvil: 10 hours? on a 850mAh battery? Mar 15 16:13:12 1200 Mar 15 16:13:32 SpeedEvil: yes. http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=255#c1, that's the gzipped text file. Mar 15 16:13:52 200mW or so for the backlight. 150mW for the published idle current of the CPU, for a total of 350mW. Mar 15 16:13:55 SpeedEvil: even for 1200, all of our designs use at min of 2200mAh batteries, and we just barely get 10 hours Mar 15 16:14:54 you get about 4000mWh out of the battery after an efficient converter, so 4000/350 = 11 hours. Mar 15 16:16:11 SpeedEvil: our cpu board with flash+sdram+cpu runs about 140mA idle Mar 15 16:16:15 To get to 5.5 hours, you have to come up with 770mW or so of load. Mar 15 16:16:31 At what voltage? Mar 15 16:16:46 SpeedEvil: 7.2v input Mar 15 16:16:47 * SpeedEvil wonders if he got mW and mA mixed up. Mar 15 16:17:03 SpeedEvil: i think you might have Mar 15 16:17:08 * SpeedEvil checks Mar 15 16:17:48 there is a minor difference between the two :) Mar 15 16:17:57 indeed Mar 15 16:18:05 I'm pretty sure I diddn't - but... Mar 15 16:18:30 SpeedEvil: our total current draw with 802.11b max peak is about 425mA Mar 15 16:18:50 SpeedEvil: with typical around 280mA Mar 15 16:19:15 with what hardware? Mar 15 16:19:46 SpeedEvil: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/M5900 Mar 15 16:19:52 pH5: the bat discharge curve looks nominal. Mar 15 16:19:54 SpeedEvil: easier to just give you an url Mar 15 16:20:10 I.E. there isn't much energy left in it. Mar 15 16:22:55 SpeedEvil: thats our low end device thats available, the high end is still in development phase Mar 15 16:23:07 http://blogs.gnome.org/view/lucasr/2007/03/15/2 Mar 15 16:25:59 SpeedEvil: for the high end device we are looking to use a battery design similiar to this - http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3120 Mar 15 16:27:42 SpeedEvil: with power supply optimizations along with running everything at 3.3v or below, we are getting around 20 hours of continuous(not idle) use Mar 15 16:35:45 'typical idle power mode' is given as 124mW Mar 15 16:35:49 at 200Mhz Mar 15 16:37:20 typical normal power mode at 200Mhz, as 259mW, 'playing matrix2.wmv' Mar 15 17:02:07 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Makefile Issue Mar 15 17:06:47 counter Mar 15 17:06:47 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 18:53:13 (16.787 +-7.0 days) (545) Mar 15 17:28:16 \\ Mar 15 17:28:29 I didn't change anything! Mar 15 17:28:49 Anyhow, how does u-boot find the kernel image? tftp? Mar 15 17:44:16 MokoMakefile success :) Mar 15 17:58:15 Hey, reporting the bug worked. Autobuild failed :) Mar 15 18:04:43 SpeedEvil: thats at 3.3v? Mar 15 18:05:47 SpeedEvil: if so, thats pretty darn good Mar 15 18:06:39 Err - I think 2.5V core Mar 15 18:07:48 1.8V at 200Mhz, 2 at 266 Mar 15 18:07:53 and 3.3V IO Mar 15 18:20:49 Heya, everyone. Mar 15 18:21:48 Hi, Pavel. :) Mar 15 18:24:19 pavelm: your scratchbox toolchain is not true EABI :) Mar 15 18:25:17 zecke: I have to admit I know very little about EABI/OABI. Mar 15 18:25:26 zecke: Anyway I have new and working toolchain by now. Mar 15 18:27:24 ...and got dialing working, using touchscreen :-). Mar 15 18:27:54 pavelm: is tui using gpm as a input device? Mar 15 18:31:00 zecke: I use rxvt mouse handling as an input devices. It stays text mode :-). Mar 15 18:34:43 SpeedEvil: thats actual measurements made from the neo ? Mar 15 18:38:18 Hi, helb ;) Mar 15 18:38:43 Does anyone know what will openmoko gsm part do on sms reception? Mar 15 18:38:48 ...automagically store it on sim? Mar 15 18:39:03 ...forward it to ARM CPU, sms is lost when CPU can't handle it? Mar 15 18:39:10 ...reject sms at GSM level? Mar 15 18:42:12 pavelm: if I'm not entirely mistaken, this can be configured via AT+CPMS commands Mar 15 18:43:22 anybody in germany got a neo already? Mar 15 18:45:42 atla: sure, look at planet.openmoko.org Mar 15 18:48:33 what did they pay in euros? Mar 15 18:48:48 they got them for free Mar 15 18:49:15 once they're available for purchase (first week of april), they'll be 350$ + shipping + tax Mar 15 18:49:20 ph5; Ok, I'll take a look. I just hope that default is something reasonable Mar 15 18:49:25 ph5: ...like reject. Mar 15 18:53:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/de]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 15 19:07:12 is the pcf50606 chgcur reading supposed to be always zero in the p0 devices? Mar 15 19:12:05 counter Mar 15 19:12:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 16:47:54 (16.700 +-7.0 days) (546) Mar 15 19:12:11 pH5 - I don't think so. Mar 15 19:14:15 Hm. I can see battvolt increase (slowly) - after 12k sec I'm now back at 4100mV - but chgcur is 0 all the time. Mar 15 19:27:30 uhm Mar 15 19:27:48 is there any plan about opengl stuff on openmoko? Mar 15 19:28:00 I doubt the graphics hardware supports GL. Mar 15 19:28:10 atla: It's a phone... Mar 15 19:28:14 there is no graphics hardware in v1 Mar 15 19:28:32 hardware accelerated 2D in the endproduct? Mar 15 19:29:51 atla: Even if you managed to configure it I doubt the battery would hold out on anything powerful Mar 15 19:30:14 k Mar 15 19:30:33 what toolkits would games use on the moko? Mar 15 19:30:47 there's no 2D acceleration in the graphics chip, other than for full-screen scrolling Mar 15 19:31:11 atla: I'd guess gtk or sdl, mostly. Mar 15 19:31:23 k Mar 15 19:32:05 samsung LCD controller allows you to scroll the whole framebuffer in any dirction by moving the start of the framebuffer in memory and this costs nothing, other operations are not accelerated Mar 15 19:44:39 (pavel is back) Mar 15 19:45:12 (got answering calls working in tui/openmoko in the meantime, and I needed sim card from gprs modem for testing) Mar 15 19:45:33 ...openmoko kernel does not seem to include ppp support, that's probably something that should be fixed. Mar 15 19:55:03 are the openmoko libs more C++ or C based? Mar 15 19:55:15 s/libs/toolkits Mar 15 19:55:21 it is gtk+... Mar 15 19:55:25 c based afaict. Mar 15 19:55:50 zecke has done some basic python bindings for all moko libs too Mar 15 19:56:08 ewww Mar 15 19:57:46 is openmoko bugzilla down? Mar 15 19:57:51 wiki too Mar 15 19:57:53 seems so Mar 15 19:57:57 :-( Mar 15 19:58:20 scheduled downtime Mar 15 19:58:37 k Mar 15 19:58:47 aha, when is it expected to go back up? Mar 15 19:59:17 Today. Should hopefully take not longer then one hour Mar 15 19:59:30 :-) okay, good luck. Mar 15 19:59:38 thanks Mar 15 19:59:54 Does anyone have a kernel with ppp support for openmoko? Mar 15 20:00:40 counter Mar 15 20:00:53 Is the OpenMoko going to be as user friendly as, for example, the iPhone? Are we going to be compiling kernels on the market erelease? Mar 15 20:01:18 userfriendly as iphone? Mar 15 20:01:33 How do you know the iphone is userfriendly? Mar 15 20:01:38 rbs: I'd expect kernel compilation on _developer_ release, but not for endusers. Mar 15 20:01:52 rbs: I certainly hope it is _more_ user friendly than iPhone. Mar 15 20:02:32 pavelm - How went your "get my toolchain to create something, that the neo runs" odysee? Mar 15 20:03:34 elrond I got scratchbox with 4.1.X gcc, and it works okay. Mar 15 20:03:45 elrond: So now I have tui working on neo, can dial and accept calls :-) Mar 15 20:05:32 how about sms? Mar 15 20:06:11 that are the two things (plus powersave but thats partly hardware) that absolutely must work for p1 Mar 15 20:07:32 normal calls are not even ready to use yet and you're worrying about SMS already :) Mar 15 20:07:55 i don't think SMSing should be difficult to implement Mar 15 20:07:56 pavelm just said he can call with his Mar 15 20:08:02 buz: You'd not want to use _my_ hacks for p1 Mar 15 20:08:11 buz: How do you like pressing invisible buttons on touchscreen? Mar 15 20:08:20 sounds like fun Mar 15 20:08:30 makes sure nobody uses your phone without asking Mar 15 20:08:34 buz: You are welcome to download tui and help improve it Mar 15 20:08:37 buz :-)))))))))))) Mar 15 20:08:44 i dont have a neo Mar 15 20:08:53 buz: You can run it on your pc :-) Mar 15 20:09:06 buz: I had sms reading implemented in _very_ hacky way. Mar 15 20:09:30 balrog: sms are ugly can of worms. SMS, long sms standard, EMS, configuration SMS, picture SMS, animations, ... Mar 15 20:09:42 balrog: But basic support is indeed quite easy. Mar 15 20:09:48 is there a library to handle all these somewhere? Mar 15 20:10:07 balrog: No _good_ library I know of. Mar 15 20:10:23 balrog: I cut©&pasted from scmxx. Mar 15 20:10:51 buz: Unfortunately with current state of things noone can use my phone even _after_ asking :-) Mar 15 20:11:56 still i don't think it's more complicate than getting, say current kernel drivers to work and someone managed to write all of this Mar 15 20:12:41 i think we're past the worst part Mar 15 20:13:58 balrog: No, it is not nightmare. agreed about "past the worst part". Mar 15 20:15:16 balrog; It is just... I'd expect sms support to be 2+ weeks of work (in one person) to do properly. Mar 15 20:15:49 that's a lot Mar 15 20:15:56 but i have no experience with modems Mar 15 20:18:13 balrog: to do _properly_. I did it over weekend :-) Mar 15 20:18:21 balrog: But I did not have to deal with gtk+ etc... Mar 15 20:20:56 pavelm: i think the gtk+ part will be separate from gsmd Mar 15 20:21:28 counter Mar 15 20:21:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 15:38:31 (16.652 +-7.0 days) (548) Mar 15 20:21:36 Did anyone ever get anything from the gps? Or is it some bulk, which might break for P0 or P1 owners? Mar 15 20:22:30 elrond: gps protocol is undocumented :-( Mar 15 20:22:54 is the wiki down BTW? Mar 15 20:23:03 root@fic-gta01:/var/tmp$ ipkg update Mar 15 20:23:06 Downloading http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/20070301/ipk/Packages.gz Mar 15 20:23:06 wget: server returned error 404: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Mar 15 20:23:10 balrog-kun - Yes, documented downtime. Mar 15 20:23:18 ...is there way to switch to working ipkg feed? Mar 15 20:23:35 balrog-kun: I guess outage is still in progress (or update ;-) Mar 15 20:23:45 pavelm: hi, all *.openmoko.org are down Mar 15 20:23:56 mikesh: downloads is up & running. Mar 15 20:24:15 mikesh: Nice nick ;-) Mar 15 20:24:15 www.openmoko.com too Mar 15 20:24:19 outage is in development Mar 15 20:24:22 pavelm: oh, ok :) Mar 15 20:25:31 ...heh, getting mp3s working was really easy. Mar 15 20:25:32 madplay 05-Pysna_ruze.mp3 Mar 15 20:26:07 pavelm: play an mp3 into the call speaker and dream of that voice quality :) Mar 15 20:27:07 with umts it might work Mar 15 20:27:15 with gsm, not really ;) Mar 15 20:27:25 buz: with edge, it might work. Mar 15 20:27:34 yeh edge would do Mar 15 20:27:39 ...but you are probably limited by mic quality. Mar 15 20:27:53 can the neo encode mp3 in realtime? Mar 15 20:28:03 buz: actually probably gprs 4+2 would do... thats 32kbit/sec in both directions. Mar 15 20:28:11 buz: probably depends on quality. Mar 15 20:28:15 i remember it taking well, forever, on pentium class hardware Mar 15 20:28:24 and pentium is about my reference for neo Mar 15 20:28:31 i bet it can't do 128kbps in real-time Mar 15 20:28:40 probably not Mar 15 20:29:01 then again 32kbit speex would beat the living shit out of just about any voice solution in current use Mar 15 20:35:29 GPRS has shit latency. Mar 15 20:35:45 So it'll beat it - for push to talk applications. Mar 15 20:35:47 aye Mar 15 20:35:50 Not bidirectional. Mar 15 20:35:59 hi Mar 15 20:36:06 What is openmoko? Mar 15 20:36:07 yos87: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 15 20:37:20 woglinde: hey Mar 15 20:37:39 he zecke Mar 15 20:39:02 I did not understand Mar 15 20:39:44 Openmoko is software or harware? Mar 15 20:40:01 there is no spoon Mar 15 20:40:37 hi Mar 15 20:40:49 can someone give me archive with devirginator? Mar 15 20:41:01 yos87: software Mar 15 20:41:04 hi, hrw. Mar 15 20:41:19 hi pavel Mar 15 20:41:47 can someone give me archive with devirginator? whole package used to fill phase0 devices Mar 15 20:42:02 Is there way to do ipkg update on openmoko.. to pull zaurus packages or something? Mar 15 20:42:08 copy of (unreachable) http://people.openmoko.org/werner/devirginate-20070301.tar.gz Mar 15 20:42:40 pavelm: you probably need to change feeds to proper ones as they moved theem Mar 15 20:43:19 hrw: where to download the Openmoko platform? Mar 15 20:43:28 yos87: read the FAQ - openmoko is an open source phone platform. Mar 15 20:43:41 The Neo1973 is the first phone designed for this. Mar 15 20:43:44 hrw: people is up again Mar 15 20:43:49 Again, in the FAQ. Mar 15 20:44:06 stefan_schmidt: THXX Mar 15 20:44:19 There are assorted ways to do it, depending on if your aim is to make something that'll run on a phone, or on a PC. Mar 15 20:44:28 34 minutes.... argh Mar 15 20:44:35 ~lart hotel network Mar 15 20:44:36 * apt wallops hotel network with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long Mar 15 20:44:39 cu then Mar 15 20:44:43 SpeedEvil: or some other type of handheld, hehe Mar 15 20:49:02 ...any ideas how to do the switch to proper feeds? Mar 15 20:49:33 pavelm: Why not use the offcial one? Mar 15 20:49:38 official even Mar 15 20:50:01 stefan: I'd like to: Mar 15 20:50:03 Downloading http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/20070301/ipk/Packages.gz Mar 15 20:50:03 wget: server returned error 404: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Mar 15 20:50:04 :-( Mar 15 20:51:22 pavelm: Oh. But it's better to fix this instead trying other, perhaps incompatible, feeds. I ping Harald about it. Mar 15 20:52:08 Thanks, stefan. I did not think such option exists :-) Mar 15 20:52:46 Hello Mar 15 20:53:29 just to let you guys know that mobiLiberty.com is launched: http://www.mobiliberty.com/libervis_network_joins_open_mobile_revolution :) Mar 15 20:53:34 it's all inspired by OpenMoko Mar 15 20:53:43 thank you :) Mar 15 20:54:40 hrw - BTW: Did you unbrick your neo? Mar 15 20:55:13 pavelm: Empty downloads is correct. Harald suggest to use http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/ instead. We don't have real releases yet. Mar 15 20:55:28 pavelm: The feed should work anyway. :) Mar 15 20:58:10 stefan: Not sure... so what should I do if I want to install packages? Mar 15 20:58:22 stefan: Or are all the supported packages already installed? Mar 15 20:58:29 stefan: I was hoping for mutt, etc. Mar 15 20:58:50 hihi ;) Mar 15 21:00:08 stefan_schmidt: why did you try to run at fb at 8bit? Can you save power this way? Mar 15 21:00:16 Probably. Mar 15 21:00:35 My laptop actually uses measurably less power at 4 bit, than 24 Mar 15 21:00:36 pavelm: No mutt yet. If you like other packages you should try building them. Mar 15 21:00:54 4 bit? Mar 15 21:01:03 16 shades of grey. Mar 15 21:01:07 Just fine for ebooks. Mar 15 21:01:35 stefan: my toolchain is not up for compiling mutt, I'm afraid. Mar 15 21:01:43 zecke: Power saving and a 320x240x8 mode. Mar 15 21:02:13 zecke: We add a option to switch to real qvga on the LCM later. Mar 15 21:02:18 Every little bit is important. Mar 15 21:03:04 Any knowledge on if the LCM can in fact draw/refresh from SPI? Mar 15 21:03:17 Not video rate of course. Mar 15 21:03:53 SpeedEvil: We can switch to real QVGA via SPI.:) Mar 15 21:04:07 Yeah - however. Mar 15 21:04:16 The LCM has RAM. Mar 15 21:04:34 SpeedEvil: I don't have the docs yet. And when I have, I have signed a NDA. :( Mar 15 21:04:39 The sony (toshiba) chip has no docs available Mar 15 21:04:40 ah Mar 15 21:05:08 :( Mar 15 21:05:47 ~lart NDA issues Mar 15 21:05:48 * apt shoots NDA issues in his sleep Mar 15 21:05:51 All we really need is 'self refresh' 'plot pixel(s)'. Mar 15 21:06:15 SpeedEvil: I hope the source we can provide gives you a good overview over the LCM handling. ;) Mar 15 21:06:22 :) Mar 15 21:06:45 That would be nice - as it means that the LCM could be used with low backlight in 'dim' mode. Mar 15 21:06:46 how much power do the leds need on minimum brightness? Mar 15 21:06:56 My guess was 200mW or so. Mar 15 21:07:10 based on similar displays. Mar 15 21:07:15 thats not gonna last long then Mar 15 21:07:24 Err - rather, with the CPU in 'slow' mode. Mar 15 21:07:42 CPU in slow mode (50mW) backlight at half is a total of 150mW or so. Mar 15 21:07:59 Gives you over a day. Mar 15 21:08:28 oh so 200w is max power Mar 15 21:08:32 not minimum Mar 15 21:08:47 IYes. Mar 15 21:09:15 Minimum power is - IIRC 50uW. Mar 15 21:09:25 Which is 1/4000 brightness Mar 15 21:09:31 which won't usually be visible. Mar 15 21:09:58 speed: Brightness set to 200 is still somehow visible. Mar 15 21:10:04 ...but it should be better night. Mar 15 21:10:19 ...anyway, Some displays work even without a backlight...? Mar 15 21:10:24 Alas, not. Mar 15 21:10:29 There is a compromise. Mar 15 21:10:29 transreflective ones Mar 15 21:10:31 but only barely Mar 15 21:10:32 ...like collie display, which is very readable on sunlight. Mar 15 21:10:44 You either have a reflective layer at the back of the display, and lose half the backlight light Mar 15 21:11:02 Or you don't, and have twice the backlight for the power Mar 15 21:11:17 can you read neo screen in bright sunlight? Mar 15 21:11:35 (because with transreflective ones you can) Mar 15 21:11:46 The display is _not transreflective_ Mar 15 21:11:52 i know Mar 15 21:11:57 which is why i ask ;) Mar 15 21:12:04 Oh - if you ramp up the backlight. Mar 15 21:12:43 speed: Actually collie had frontlight. Mar 15 21:12:52 :) Mar 15 21:12:58 The idea is: Maybe does *something* reflect anyway, despite not designed to do so. Mar 15 21:13:10 Apparently not. Mar 15 21:13:16 It's like notebook displays. Mar 15 21:13:24 If the backlight goes out, you see nothing. Mar 15 21:13:25 ok, "modern" displays are nicer, but tend to suck in daylight. Mar 15 21:13:39 ...which is why I love olpc. Mar 15 21:13:44 Unless you press a flashlight right up against the screen, and look round the edges. Mar 15 21:14:11 That is one nice facet of the OLPC. Mar 15 21:14:33 Though I've never seen one in the flesh. Mar 15 21:15:13 speed; It is not as nice as e-paper, but it is good enough. Mar 15 21:15:28 The e-ink people are bastards though. Mar 15 21:15:48 They only want to talk to _large_ manufacturers. Mar 15 21:16:06 I had interesting ideas for a _cheap_ ebook type device. Mar 15 21:16:14 Which was basically an electrostatic printer. Mar 15 21:16:30 open the display, and drag the film past a write head, to 'print'. Mar 15 21:16:40 close the device, and it erases. Mar 15 21:17:15 strip down the olpc Mar 15 21:17:42 This is better than the OLPC in some ways for simple ebook reading. Mar 15 21:17:58 sounds like it could fail quickly Mar 15 21:18:04 moving parts and all that Mar 15 21:18:14 Not really. The parts are all simple. Mar 15 21:18:28 And the printer has no moving parts. Mar 15 21:18:40 plus people are lazy Mar 15 21:18:48 they dont want to drag stuff ;) Mar 15 21:19:12 People are lazy - but this would be a _cheap_ solution, as well as pocketable. Mar 15 21:19:20 later Mar 15 21:19:27 wave. Mar 15 21:21:59 Elrond: I'm unbricking it now Mar 15 21:22:11 Elrond: now I have smiley face on screen Mar 15 21:23:03 hrw - Cool! What did you change? Mar 15 21:23:10 hrw: new device or new technique? Mar 15 21:23:12 Elrond: charged battery Mar 15 21:23:29 rwhitby: charged battery (in other neo1973) Mar 15 21:23:39 * hrw has 2 neo1973 on desk now Mar 15 21:24:01 hmm - maybe I should "say" my neo is bricked to get a second one too ;-) Mar 15 21:24:31 Hey, send one to me! ;o)) Mar 15 21:24:52 rwhitby: second one is from other Polish developer which also is on conference Mar 15 21:25:00 he will talk about openmoko tomorrow Mar 15 21:25:13 hrw: what conference, btw? Mar 15 21:25:23 * rwhitby remebers that he has to work out what to say at his openmoko talk on Tuesday ... Mar 15 21:25:27 pavelm: Pingwinaria - near Slovak border Mar 15 21:25:46 rwhitby: It's got to start off with an obscure chaos theory bit. Mar 15 21:25:47 rwhitby: I need to prepare presentation for my OE talk on saturday 17:00 Mar 15 21:25:58 hrw: sounds close enough to me. Mar 15 21:26:05 rwhitby: MokoMakefile success last night :) Mar 15 21:26:14 SpeedEvil: yeah, I'll probably just use those slides as-is. Mar 15 21:26:15 pavelm: Krynica Zdroj Mar 15 21:26:19 MacNorth: sweet Mar 15 21:26:21 Maybe 'Openmoko will be the butterfly that causes hurricanes to sweep through the mobile market'... Mar 15 21:26:23 always good to use the right one ;) Mar 15 21:26:57 MacNorth: yeah, sorry about that - I forgot you were the other one with old svn access. Mar 15 21:27:59 hrw - Use the newest u-boot, it has updates for charging. Mar 15 21:28:02 no worries, here's hoping projects.om.org gets updated in this maintainence cycle Mar 15 21:28:36 in that case neo's hostname should ready katrina Mar 15 21:28:40 read Mar 15 21:28:44 And it needs to be fully slashdot capable. Mar 15 21:29:20 Elrond: GREAT Mar 15 21:29:40 Elrond: can you remind me proper url? Mar 15 21:30:01 hrw - Huh... The wiki (down currently) has the links on the front page. Mar 15 21:30:05 Elrond: working environment dump would be great too Mar 15 21:30:22 ok, I got link Mar 15 21:30:48 hrw - This one? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images Mar 15 21:31:01 yes Mar 15 21:31:47 could i get that devel image working straight in a qemu? Mar 15 21:33:56 guaqua: rather not Mar 15 21:34:01 :> Mar 15 21:34:06 meaning :< Mar 15 21:35:20 http://digg.com/gadgets/Libervis_Network_joins_the_open_mobile_revolution -) Mar 15 21:38:22 does anyone have details on phase 0 pm problem? Mar 15 21:38:39 GSM is not wired to resume cpu from suspend? Mar 15 21:38:47 pavelm: bug #212 Mar 15 21:41:13 pvanhoof - wiki -> Neo hardware -> Errata. Mar 15 21:41:17 huh. Mar 15 21:41:24 pavelm - wiki -> Neo hardware -> Errata. Mar 15 21:44:52 hrw: #212? That's battery charging problem. It should not cut standby time to 5 hours or so. Mar 15 21:46:44 pavelm - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Stand-by_time_extremely_low Mar 15 21:47:46 Elrond: can you share uboot environment dump from device? Mar 15 21:48:13 hrw - What do you mean? Mar 15 21:48:28 hrw - You mean, "transfer from one device to another"? Mar 15 21:48:44 dfu-util -a 2 -U uboot.env Mar 15 21:49:12 Yeah, that's used to put the env on the neo. So what? Mar 15 21:49:29 It is portable ASCII. Just edit to your taste. Mar 15 21:49:56 Elrond: -U == get from neo not put Mar 15 21:50:04 Ahh. Mar 15 21:50:14 I don't know, if dfu supports this yet... Mar 15 21:50:18 I somewhat doubt it. Mar 15 21:50:50 it is used by devirginator Mar 15 21:51:20 IT BOOTED!!!! Mar 15 21:51:27 Cool! :) Mar 15 21:52:01 tomorrow I will use neo as geek factor increase device Mar 15 21:52:06 Huh, -U is really "backup". Fun. Mar 15 21:52:35 hrw - Remove the battery, now that it's loaded. Reading the errata, it feels like it will discharge even if the phone is off. Mar 15 21:52:37 hrw: Congrats. Mar 15 21:53:28 Elrond: I have charger and laptop here so it can charge now Mar 15 21:53:29 elrond: No, I still don't get it Mar 15 21:53:37 we have poor standby time. Mar 15 21:53:46 ...because 30mA power drain. Mar 15 21:53:52 ...but 30mA is 40 hours Mar 15 21:54:04 ...and our standby time is 5. Mar 15 21:54:13 Huh, that's strange. Mar 15 21:54:28 ...gsm can't wake us from sleep. Mar 15 21:54:35 ...maybe that's the bad problem? Mar 15 21:54:49 brb Mar 15 21:54:51 ...could we work around it be sleepig for second, picking up any GSM messages, sleeping for second...? Mar 15 21:54:53 Well, it means, that you wont ever notice a call, if the CPU gone asleep. ;) Mar 15 21:55:25 elrond: we can "poll" the GSM, no? Mar 15 21:55:43 Yeah, might work. I don't know, what the gsm's UART does, when the CPU's UART is down. Mar 15 21:56:02 pavelm - The GSM is a simple modem after all. Nothing more. Mar 15 21:59:44 ...hehe, 'PMU rtc alarm' can't wake the cpu from sleep, according to same page :-( Mar 15 21:59:50 ...is there another timer that could be used? Mar 15 22:00:39 Hmm, very good question. Mar 15 22:04:29 divirg* really downloads the env, modifies it and uploads to device. Fun! Mar 15 22:05:21 Elrond: and it does not work when environment is empty on device ;) Mar 15 22:05:31 Elrond: now I have env fixed Mar 15 22:08:11 but now it discharged battery so much that reset loop came... Mar 15 22:11:14 cu guys Mar 15 22:11:19 time to finally sleep Mar 15 22:13:43 good night, hrw Mar 15 22:14:06 Huh, that discharging was quick. Mar 15 22:15:05 Is there any AT command that takes _long_ time to complete? I'd like to test that "just poll gsm once a second" theory. Mar 15 22:15:15 ATZ? Mar 15 22:15:33 atz returns ok immendiately Mar 15 22:15:44 Put SIM in and call the neo. ;-) Mar 15 22:16:19 elrond : Not enough SIMs there to do that and still keep irc up, but will do that if there's no other chance. Mar 15 22:19:04 AT+CFUN takes long enough. Mar 15 22:19:40 ...the neo headset is annoying. I can hear slightest touch of the cable :-(. Mar 15 22:19:54 ...and I can't hear anything around me :-(. Mar 15 22:24:31 openmoko: 03dodji * r1380 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Mar 15 22:24:31 openmoko: Add proper GObject properties for all the getters/setters Mar 15 22:24:31 openmoko: * applications/openmoko-today/src/today-events-area.c,h: Mar 15 22:24:31 openmoko: add a bunch a GObject properties for all the getters/setters. Mar 15 22:24:31 openmoko: Use g_object_new() in the constructors. Mar 15 22:24:35 openmoko: Add a today_events_area_new_from_events() for better convenience. Mar 15 22:24:37 openmoko: * applications/openmoko-today/src/today-main.c: use the Mar 15 22:25:31 what OM will never be short on ;) http://youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE Mar 15 22:36:42 Is the binary-only module for gps available somewhere? Mar 15 22:36:51 It's not a kernel module. Mar 15 22:36:57 It's a userspace daemon. Mar 15 22:37:14 cjb - Or a userspace loadable module for standard gpsd, I hear. Mar 15 22:37:15 it isn't available afaik, even the FIC doesn't have it yet Mar 15 22:37:25 Waaa. Mar 15 22:37:34 So P1 phones come with untested gps? Mar 15 22:37:36 cjb: it could easily be made into a kernel module i believe Mar 15 22:37:59 balrog-kun - Nobody wants a kernel module, if it can be done in userspace. Mar 15 22:38:11 the bianry you get from the manufacturer is not an executable in any known format, you have to wrap it in a lot of your own code Mar 15 22:38:54 mickeyl - May you tell use, if the GPS in any neo revision has been tested at all? Mar 15 22:38:57 balrog-kun: I don't want it to be a kernel module. Mar 15 22:39:03 s/use/us/ Mar 15 22:39:03 Elrond meant: mickeyl - May you tell us, if the GPS in any neo revision has been tested at all? Mar 15 22:39:18 Elrond: yes and no Mar 15 22:39:38 yes: the GL people worked together at the FIC manufacturing plant to make this working Mar 15 22:39:43 yes, you may tell and no it hasn't? :p Mar 15 22:39:49 no: we don't have any code yet so we can't reproduce their results :/ Mar 15 22:40:12 * SpeedEvil stabs NDA writers. Mar 15 22:40:19 So there is a slight chance, that P1 ships with broken gps? Mar 15 22:40:32 not p1 Mar 15 22:40:41 we won't ship p1 until we had a chance to test GPS Mar 15 22:40:47 p0 has a minimum chance Mar 15 22:40:52 Will this delay P1? Mar 15 22:41:01 Beyond 'late march' ? Mar 15 22:41:23 Is there a way to kick gps so that it at least sends it binary blobs my way? Mar 15 22:41:32 can't tell atm. there will be a one week meeting in Taiwan starting w/ Saturday, so I'm confident a lot of issues will be resolved after that Mar 15 22:41:35 Not public Mar 15 22:41:39 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: [oe] Why EABI matters Mar 15 22:41:46 IOW - nobody has worked out how to. Mar 15 22:42:06 Apparently connecting to it after the power is on, and sending it lots of 0x80's will sync the UART Mar 15 22:42:10 train the UART Mar 15 22:42:19 then it may respond in some manner. Mar 15 22:42:34 I'd try cat /dev/urandom >/dev/ttySwhatever to see. Mar 15 22:42:34 It shall respond to 0xfa, I think. Mar 15 22:42:37 speed : do you remember how to turn on the power? Mar 15 22:42:42 No. Mar 15 22:42:52 And I have unfortunately just lost all my logs. Mar 15 22:43:01 Due to a really annoying dual hardware failure. Mar 15 22:43:10 pavelm - /sys/..../gta-something-gps-pm.0/ cat power_on > something. Mar 15 22:43:29 mickeyl: hey, is "Trained Monkey" an appropriate title for the gforge account? Mar 15 22:43:41 zecke: sounds very good to me :D Mar 15 22:43:58 iirc you reset the chip by either powering it off through the pcf50606 or just resetting through a gpio Mar 15 22:44:27 balrog-kun - Right. But the reset pin implementation in the kernel is possibly broken. Mar 15 22:44:52 At least *I* think it's broken. Mar 15 22:44:59 i haven't looked at all the _pm things yet Mar 15 22:46:52 What would be interesting to many of us would be a canned 'this is how to turn on the GPS' 'This is how to initiate the GPS sending a packet' without any format at all might be interesting. Mar 15 22:47:11 balrog-kun - My review. *Any comments* appreciated! http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2007-February/000000.html Mar 15 22:47:17 Sigh - 80 char compose window and lack of short term memory sucks. Mar 15 22:48:09 SpeedEvil - Yeah. Mar 15 22:50:41 Elrond: this is suspicious to me too Mar 15 22:51:55 balrog-kun - Okay, thanks! This tells me, that I'm not asking complete *censored*. :-) Mar 15 22:52:35 Elrond: well, i wouldn't know if it was something censored :p Mar 15 22:53:01 echo power_up > power_sequence Mar 15 22:53:03 mickeyl: Does 5.5 hours - idle with the backlight full on seem reasonable for P0? It's significantly over the simplistic estimate that might be gotten from the datasheets. Or is it P0 problems? Mar 15 22:53:25 5.5 idle sounds pretty good for p0 Mar 15 22:53:28 under - timewise Mar 15 22:53:28 i can hardly believe that Mar 15 22:53:32 SpeedEvil: my understanding as a P0 receipient was it was more like 2 hours. Mar 15 22:53:32 i.e. with backlight full Mar 15 22:53:49 LaF0rge managed 4 hours without backlight Mar 15 22:53:52 (i.e. I've never run it on batteries :-) Mar 15 22:53:52 speed: It is less than 10 hours with backlight off. Mar 15 22:54:06 K. Mar 15 22:54:14 Sigh - I can't find the quote. Mar 15 22:54:20 * SpeedEvil stabs double failures. Mar 15 22:54:28 It was 20000 seconds. Mar 15 22:55:44 *arg* The power-on sequence of the GPS has the "nRESET"-pin in, two times. Before even starting to give power to the gps, and close to the end. Mar 15 22:56:10 And as the nreset pin IMHO is not at all changed from the kernel on Bv03... the gps wont do anything. Mar 15 22:56:25 It may well power on reset. Mar 15 22:56:34 what kind of functionality is there at the moment on the phone? Mar 15 22:56:43 Basically no end user. Mar 15 22:56:44 it boots and gives out the menu, and there's the today-app? Mar 15 22:56:50 Other that 'ohh shiny' Mar 15 22:56:54 hi Mar 15 22:57:10 + /* nRESET must be asserted low */ Mar 15 22:57:10 + gps_rst_set(0); Mar 15 22:57:11 ... Mar 15 22:57:25 The dialer does not work, and it's not usable. Mar 15 22:57:26 ... apply power here, apply power there ... Mar 15 22:57:42 + msleep(3); /* Is 3ms enough? */ Mar 15 22:57:46 At the moment, it's basically a small linux box, with some very prototype software. Mar 15 22:57:52 + /* De-asert nRESET */ Mar 15 22:57:52 + gps_rst_set(1); Mar 15 22:58:06 + /* Switch power on */ Mar 15 22:58:07 + gps_pwron_set(1); Mar 15 22:58:13 That's the power-on sequence. Mar 15 22:58:20 That sounds bogus. Mar 15 22:58:33 If it resets before power on. Mar 15 22:58:38 Igps_pwron_set is setting a gpio, that goes to the gps chip. Mar 15 22:58:54 gpr_rst_set() being a nop for the GTA01Bv3_SYSTEM_REV Mar 15 22:59:13 balrog-kun - Right. And I think, this is a bug. Mar 15 22:59:39 And assuming, that the crazy chip needs an edge on the reset pin while getting power... it wont init ever. ;) Mar 15 22:59:49 Most hardware power on resets just fine if the power comes up fast. Mar 15 22:59:52 maybe a forgotten line in gta01_pm_gps.c? Mar 15 22:59:52 However. Mar 15 23:00:06 If it's not set, and the initial state is reset active, then... Mar 15 23:00:29 Hmm, I don't know, what the gpio's default is. Mar 15 23:01:05 The easy way would be to simply expose it in /sys or /proc Mar 15 23:01:26 Long enough to find out if it helps. Mar 15 23:02:16 SpeedEvil - Oh, you mean expose *all* GPIOs there. Mar 15 23:02:19 No Mar 15 23:02:22 just the reset one Mar 15 23:02:28 * balrog-kun wishes he could play with this and try to receive some bytes from the gps Mar 15 23:02:30 so you can do echo 1 >gps reset Mar 15 23:02:32 Hmm. Wait. Mar 15 23:02:33 It is! Mar 15 23:02:54 may be even easier in u-boot Mar 15 23:03:07 But the gps_rst_get is also b0rked. Mar 15 23:03:33 So the /sys interface to the reset-pin is also not useable. Mar 15 23:05:31 The fix is simple. Add a "case TA01Bv3_SYSTEM_REV:". Mar 15 23:06:47 We need an official comment on this ;o))) Mar 15 23:07:12 that's the forgotten line i was thinking of, but we don't know if it's orrect Mar 15 23:07:25 Right. Mar 15 23:07:32 pity i can't make much sense of schematics Mar 15 23:07:48 Are the schematics public?! Mar 15 23:07:53 Post them on the wiki! :) Mar 15 23:07:59 public, nope Mar 15 23:08:31 for the record, I could not make the gps reply to stream of 0x80s or 0xfes. Mar 15 23:08:45 pavelm - 0xfa. ;-) Mar 15 23:09:57 the stream of 0x80 has to be sent immeditely after reset as i understand it, and the 0xfa once, when the UART is configured Mar 15 23:10:26 the specs don't say if it responds to 0xfa if the chip is awake, but it looks like it always should respond to it Mar 15 23:10:32 they only talk of the SLEEP mode Mar 15 23:10:56 balrog: I assume this specs is not public...? Mar 15 23:11:02 it isn't :( Mar 15 23:11:04 Are the software specs of the GPS basically Global Locate only? Mar 15 23:11:41 Ok, this needs small app, not me doing cat file_full_of_whatever > /dev/ttySAC1 Mar 15 23:13:08 i don't know Mar 15 23:14:16 This makes me want to cry: according to their pages, hammerhead is "Standards compliant" :( Mar 15 23:14:42 SpeedEvil, I've the impression that openmoko (inc) has the lib source, if that's what you mean; they just can't release Mar 15 23:14:50 (and that's just my impression) Mar 15 23:15:29 balrog-kun - The s3c2410 should have some GPIO pin labeled "C0". Can you try to walk the line and see, if it meets the gps chip? Mar 15 23:16:25 lemme see what version of the GTA this is in the first place.. Mar 15 23:17:05 Bv03. Mar 15 23:18:14 This pin should be wired to the gps starting in GTA01v04 (no B). And probably never changed afterwards. Mar 15 23:18:54 ok the documents are all for GTA01Bv03 too Mar 15 23:19:47 Good, right one. Mar 15 23:20:59 If the gps has any useful labels, you might want to start at its reset pin. ;-) Mar 15 23:26:30 * balrog-kun writes down the names of the pins Mar 15 23:26:38 they start on one layer and end on some other layer Mar 15 23:29:37 Which means? Mar 15 23:31:09 PCBs are made up of a sandwitch of copper and insulator layers Mar 15 23:31:34 To route dense PCBs - with lots of connections, you need 4 or even 6 layers. Mar 15 23:31:50 yuck. Mar 15 23:32:05 So balrog-kun is lost in some pcb maze now? Mar 15 23:32:09 Connections are made between these layers, and wires often dip up and down layers. Mar 15 23:32:23 It depends on what you have as information. Mar 15 23:32:57 It can be a nice connection list, or a hard to interpret maze of coloured lines that you can sort-of-understand with a very large magnifying glass. Mar 15 23:34:09 nick Stephmw[Zzzzz] Mar 15 23:34:50 ;) Mar 15 23:35:32 SpeedEvil - Oh well. So balrog-kun is doing that latter. :-| Mar 15 23:36:17 Elrond: i was looking at it like at an abstract painting Mar 15 23:36:24 SpeedEvil: not even colored :( Mar 15 23:37:28 I completely underestimated the complexity of the pcb. :-| Mar 15 23:37:33 so, POWERON or GPS_PWRON is GPB1 (which is also TOUT1 which means you can wire a timer to it, if you want), which is the pin F1 on the cpui Mar 15 23:37:37 *cpu Mar 15 23:38:06 RESET (active low) ot GPS_RST is connected to GPC0 Mar 15 23:38:33 whose othe name is LEND:STH and it's the pin I4 on the cpu Mar 15 23:38:42 i don't know what LEND:STH means Mar 15 23:39:13 so you were right about C0 Mar 15 23:39:31 Cool! Mar 15 23:40:12 there are 16 layers (possibly not all one a single PCB) Mar 15 23:40:41 16 layers would be _RARE_. Mar 15 23:40:53 Maybe exotic microwave stuff with buried waveguides. Mar 15 23:41:12 6 or 8 is a likely limit. Mar 15 23:42:06 balrog-kun - Can I cite you? Or can you write a response to my posting and note, that according to the schematics, the pin is still connected? Mar 15 23:42:24 it's probably different parts on the same layer split into separate pages, for readability Mar 15 23:42:31 it's much more readable than i was expecting Mar 15 23:42:52 Elrond: i would prefer no Mar 15 23:43:19 what you can do for sure, is submit a ptch to bugzilla Mar 15 23:43:21 (You're aware, that this channel has publicly available logs?) Mar 15 23:44:35 yeah, i'm not sure if what i'm doing is ok, but i've seen guys on the official OMAP mailing list paste whole chapters of NDAed documents when asked Mar 15 23:45:05 with people from texas instruments being subscribed to the same list Mar 15 23:45:26 Generally. Mar 15 23:45:41 *G* Mar 15 23:45:52 Passing out information from the datasheet is different from copying chunks and making them publically available. Mar 15 23:45:57 This varies of coursel Mar 15 23:45:59 rwhitby: Does MokoMakefile really need to check out the complete OpenMoko Subversion repository? I currently dont have a good overview of the build process, but I think only /trunk/ is needed... Currently this won't save much, but later branches and releases may make the checkout much longer and bigger... Mar 15 23:46:26 balrog-kun - For the wiring, I don't think, that FIC would be very angry. You basicly said "yes" to my question about reset being wired to GPC0. :) Mar 15 23:46:29 TobiX: you are correct, and at some point I might change it. The initial plan was to replicate the official build instructions. Mar 15 23:46:33 the kernel sources (also openmoko patches) are full of information that is only in NDAed documents other than in code Mar 15 23:47:00 rwhitby: Ah, ok. Then I won't give it too much though at the moment :) Mar 15 23:47:01 (also MokoMakefile might do things like building trunk/src/target without using bitbake for xoo or something) Mar 15 23:49:51 But the MokoMakefile and BitBake look much more polished then the hell that is the Agenda toolchain... Mar 15 23:50:09 Maybe I should try to port OpenMoko on the Agenda just for fun ;) Mar 15 23:50:31 But then, that may not be so much fun at all... Mar 16 00:03:19 tobix: you have that old linux pda? Mar 16 00:03:20 pavelm-goingtosl: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 16 00:03:33 aloril: YOu are annoying Mar 16 00:03:41 *grml* does anyone have the debug port pinout at hand? somehow cant find it in the wiki. Mar 16 00:03:55 It's not public Mar 16 00:04:00 pavelm-goingtosl: Yes, It's sitting on my desk. Got it last year from a friend who had no use for it... Mar 16 00:04:03 and is changing for V4 Mar 16 00:04:16 (which is the phase 1 hardware) Mar 16 00:04:34 tobix: Poor you.. that's even slower hardware than collie (sharp zaurus sl-5500), right? Mar 16 00:04:59 pavelm-goingtosl: Yes, it's awfully slow... Mar 16 00:05:26 SpeedEvil: damn. ive got the board, but harald forgot the FPC. and id like a hard reset. ;) Mar 16 00:05:35 Ah. Mar 16 00:05:54 You have the debug board? Mar 16 00:05:55 prom: What is FPC? Mar 16 00:06:03 Flat connecotr wire Mar 16 00:06:19 pavelm-goingtosl - flexible printed circuit. Mar 16 00:06:30 One of the test points next to the connector isn't labelled 'reset' is it? Mar 16 00:06:58 pavelm: literally flexible printed circuit. just a cable in this case. Mar 16 00:07:27 prom: Aha, yes, that stuff near the debug board that I hope I'll never have to use. Mar 16 00:08:15 SpeedEvil - BTW: Part of the debug board port seems to be a standard 20pin ARM JTAG thingy. Mar 16 00:08:33 ... or maybe the 20ping standard thing is _also_ on the debug board. Mar 16 00:08:47 SpeedEvil: there are labels, including reset. but i dont know how they correspond to the TPs. the counts dont match. ;) Mar 16 00:09:31 pavelm-goingtosl: 43,32 BogoMIPS, 66MHz mipsel Mar 16 00:09:44 but never mind, this can wait. thanks for the help. Mar 16 00:09:59 tobix: 66MHz is quite okay (it has mono display, iirc?), but 8MB ram or something is not. Mar 16 00:10:32 the 20 pin empty header spot on the debug v2 board is a standard arm 20 pin jtag port. Mar 16 00:10:33 tobix: port openmoko to _that_ and you can be sure it will be _very_ fast on neo ;-). Mar 16 00:11:17 Yes, only 8 megs RAM, totally sucks. Awfully slow with Kernel XIP from Flash and RAM totally full with Kernel loaded to RAM... Mar 16 00:12:22 tobix: Ouch. If you managed to get palmos running there.. maybe it would improve its usability :-) Mar 16 00:12:52 tobix: Would like to see agenda some day. Its really grand-grand-father of pretty much every linux pda. Mar 16 00:13:16 pavelm-goingtosl: But PalmOS is closed... On the other hand I have a Palm m505 as a "real" PDA here... Mar 16 00:13:58 tobix: aha... (That palmos was pretty much joke) Mar 16 00:14:13 PalmOS got much right. Mar 16 00:14:25 tobix: Does agenda have some halfway-reasonable productivity apps? Mar 16 00:14:32 tobix: Calendar/contacts/notes? Mar 16 00:15:32 pavelm-goingtosl: Yes, they are there. It can even rotate the screen, if only by restarting the X server ;) Mar 16 00:15:42 tobix: It has X server? Mar 16 00:16:07 tobix: wow. Someone should port them to openmoko Mar 16 00:16:15 ...anyway, I have to sleep now. Good night. Mar 16 00:16:17 pavelm-goingtosl: Yeah, the Tools are all written in fltk... Mar 16 00:25:00 Good night people. Mar 16 01:22:56 evening all Mar 16 01:26:26 hello everyone Mar 16 01:26:32 binutils-2.14.90.0.6-r0/binutils-2.14.90.0.6/libiberty/regex.c:132: error: previous declaration of `malloc' Mar 16 01:26:43 anyone meet before Mar 16 01:26:44 hello Mar 16 01:37:43 NOTE: package glibc-2.5-r5: task do_install: started Mar 16 01:38:08 *wait* ... somehow the buildsys doesn't really bring this machine to its knees Mar 16 02:38:46 Does anyone here have one yet? Mar 16 02:38:46 whiskeydrinker: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 16 02:39:03 several people - not me do. Mar 16 02:39:15 There artew a total of 36 with hardware outside the core team Mar 16 02:39:45 Speed, don't you ever sleep? Mar 16 02:39:55 I sleep at unfortunately irregular times. Mar 16 02:40:42 Hey does anyone have any video sources besides the one on youtube? Mar 16 02:41:15 on the wiki Mar 16 02:41:34 hyperlink please? Mar 16 02:41:44 wiki.openmoko.org Mar 16 02:42:10 no to the actual page with the video sources Mar 16 02:42:16 SpeedEvil: I'm glad I didn't stay up last night waiting for the Makefile to complete... Mar 16 02:42:34 heh, it's not that hard. if you can irc, you can read :) Mar 16 02:43:13 Thanks :) Mar 16 02:43:15 whiskeydrinker: click on "videos" Mar 16 02:45:05 Thanks loufoque Mar 16 02:46:02 I hope openmoko can support active sync for the exchange server Mar 16 02:47:06 It's pretty irrelevant at this stage. Mar 16 02:47:21 You're asking where the plane will fly to before it's been built. Mar 16 02:47:48 It is possible to submit feature requests on the wiki though. Mar 16 02:48:00 DukeOfURL: how long? Mar 16 02:48:47 openmoko: 03werner * r1381 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (openocd.in setup.sh): Mar 16 02:48:47 openmoko: setup.sh: pass USB ID cleanly Mar 16 02:48:47 openmoko: openocd.in: increased wait_halt timeout from 300 sec to 500 sec (ouch !) Mar 16 02:48:56 SpeedEvil: At least 12 hours on an old Athlon i386 system. It wouldn't work on the super duper Opteron X86_64. Mar 16 02:49:38 where can I find the file with the image? what is file OE.mtn? Mar 16 02:50:16 Are any of you guys here system admins? Mar 16 02:50:25 i3? Mar 16 02:50:41 * SpeedEvil winds back the mists of time. Mar 16 02:51:03 I thought AMD started out with i486 compatible chips. Mar 16 02:52:00 DukeOfURL: build/tmp/deploy/images, monotone database Mar 16 02:52:40 rwhitby: How will the Neo find this? Does u-boot use tftp? Mar 16 02:53:16 DukeOfURL: dfu-util Mar 16 02:53:40 (or you can use tftp from u-boot if you want to do it the hard way) Mar 16 02:54:32 rwhitby: I'll have to research dfu-util. Thanks. Mar 16 02:55:29 * rwhitby likes DukeOfURL's research-it-yourself approach :-) Mar 16 02:56:22 rwhitby: Always something new. I bought an Embedded Linux book today, but it doesn't talk about OpenEmbedded :-( Mar 16 02:57:19 rwhitby: the other day you said the GUI was the stumbling block? What are the problems with the GUI? Mar 16 02:57:47 DukeOfURL: the theme sucks Mar 16 02:58:32 DukeOfURL: I don't remember saying anything about that. I haven't even looked at the GUI yet. Mar 16 02:59:04 (remember, my neo is sitting in a test rig which is usually between 10metres and 15km away from me) Mar 16 02:59:09 Someone was talking about the core developer group and the problems they had. Mar 16 02:59:49 15Km is a long way **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 16 02:59:57 2007