**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 18 02:59:56 2007 Mar 18 03:06:15 hmm, OKing each packet seems excessive for some apps. maybe OKing all packets for a particular app for a time period Mar 18 03:06:26 or a transfer limit Mar 18 03:08:00 i have a phone with a java google maps app on it. By default i had to approve each connection. so every time I adjusted the map in any direction, I would have to approve the connection again Mar 18 03:08:06 got annoying real fast Mar 18 03:08:16 Yeah. Mar 18 03:08:37 had to seem edit IIRC to make it accept the app for the whole session Mar 18 03:08:53 In some cases though, people are paying $(us).5/K, which is when that might be appropriate. Mar 18 03:09:32 so is there a way to limit connections depending on what process is asking for them? Mar 18 03:09:46 You're asking meaningless questions at the moment. Mar 18 03:09:54 :( Mar 18 03:09:54 The phone is basically a small linux PC. Mar 18 03:10:13 with some sort-of-functioning prototype software on it. Mar 18 03:10:53 It's going to be a fairly long time - months - before these questions really become relevant - when there is a sensible range of mostly working software on it. Mar 18 03:11:29 Wander over the wiki wishlist, and apps pages, and if you see important features missing, add them. Mar 18 03:11:55 yeah, i guess i'm just wondering if that software or something close to it exists. or if it will need to be built from scratch. isn't OM taking and using a lot of things that already exist in OE? Mar 18 03:12:03 But asking 'can it do' isn't really relevant at the moment - as it can't. Mar 18 03:12:14 It depends. Mar 18 03:12:41 The phone apps are really pretty custom wrappers over in some cases more general apps. Mar 18 03:12:52 Some will be just ported versions of more general apps. Mar 18 03:13:16 * peepsalot still isn't sure what OE encompasses Mar 18 03:14:23 OE is mostly a tool to make a 'distribution' for an architecture not on your PC. Mar 18 03:15:10 So you can easily download it, and suitable scripts, hit 'go' and out pops an image you can load onto the neo. Mar 18 03:15:26 It's not got end-user software on. Mar 18 03:54:11 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] Mar 18 04:55:11 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Game]] [[Footer]] Mar 18 05:31:01 counter Mar 18 05:31:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 06:28:58 (16.270 +-7.0 days) (560) Mar 18 05:34:30 one more day and counter is back to where it was Mar 18 05:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Talk:Main_Menu]] Mar 18 06:41:30 hi everyone..whom do i contact for the Google SoC? Mar 18 06:41:31 Sup3rkiddo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 18 06:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] Mar 18 07:26:04 hi all..who is incharge of SoC? Mar 18 07:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] Mar 18 08:19:04 counter Mar 18 08:19:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 03:40:55 (16.153 +-7.0 days) (561) Mar 18 08:24:16 hi Mar 18 08:26:50 heh Mar 18 08:26:56 http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/gsm/files/gsmd?rev=1394&view=auto Mar 18 08:27:07 counter Mar 18 08:27:08 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 03:32:52 (16.148 +-7.0 days) (562) Mar 18 08:27:13 why does FIC think people can make calls with a GPS??!?!?! Mar 18 08:30:07 lol what Mar 18 08:30:11 koen|lisboa: nice mixture of ${GPS_DEV}, ${GSM_DEV} and /dev/ttySAC0 :) Mar 18 08:30:23 koen|lisboa: gsm not gps ... Mar 18 08:30:38 PBeck: that's not what that file says Mar 18 08:30:44 :) Mar 18 08:30:54 "echo "No ${GPS_DEV} device, aborting gsmd startup."" Mar 18 08:31:09 must be a pretty cool AGPS chipset ;) Mar 18 08:31:50 koen|lisboa: ok my mistake :P Mar 18 08:32:17 fixed in OE Mar 18 08:32:36 people still building from svn will continue to get broken stuff Mar 18 08:33:07 GSM_DEV="/dev/ttySAC0" Mar 18 08:33:15 thats only a typo, or? Mar 18 08:33:31 no, that one is actually correct Mar 18 08:33:44 serial device names on ARM will get fixed in kernel 2.5.x Mar 18 08:34:01 (no, that's not a typo) Mar 18 08:34:08 the variable is right Mar 18 08:34:21 but we have a typo in the phrase you posted Mar 18 08:35:11 good morning Mar 18 08:35:24 hi Hopscotch Mar 18 08:36:21 lets see how many bugs I can fix while waiting for my plane Mar 18 08:36:31 5 hours and 54 minutes left... Mar 18 08:37:47 koen|lisboa: :) Mar 18 08:38:18 bluetooth on the neo will get fixed in ~2 weeks Mar 18 08:38:54 as soon as Marcel is back in .de Mar 18 08:39:27 guys...a box with amd xp 2000+ and 768 megs of RAM is enough for poking around openmoko..right? Mar 18 08:39:30 koen|lisboa: what is broken? Mar 18 08:39:46 pH5: every neo has the same MAC address for starters.... Mar 18 08:41:46 Sup3rkiddo: the more power, the faster the builds...but there's no reason that shouldn't work for dev Mar 18 08:41:49 * koen|lisboa ponders about an open source google phone Mar 18 08:42:08 guaqua: oh ok..thanks Mar 18 08:42:27 koen|lisboa: check userfriendly today...theres a protoype Mar 18 08:44:11 koen|lisboa: I see. Mar 18 08:45:16 pH5: xorg 7.3 will use D-Bus and HAL for hotplug and config stuff Mar 18 08:45:37 open source google phone? Mar 18 08:46:32 koen|lisboa: yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Mar 18 08:47:00 has anybody tried to use avahi-autoipd for IP address configuration yet? Mar 18 08:47:08 not yet Mar 18 08:47:27 * koen|lisboa was trying to get connection forwarding to work with OSX first Mar 18 08:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Parag0n]] [[Wishlist:Games]] Mar 18 09:11:11 ok... some beginner question here: Mar 18 09:11:25 i want to build oe with the openmoko overlay Mar 18 09:11:39 is there some page in the wiki were the whole setup-process is explained... Mar 18 09:11:52 either i'm blind or most of the pages are out of date, etc... Mar 18 09:12:49 Hopscotch: try MokoMakefile Mar 18 09:12:50 mokomakefile Mar 18 09:13:25 ah, i see - someone else had the same problem :) Mar 18 09:14:15 ok - let's start over: rm -Rf oe Mar 18 09:19:05 Hello :) Mar 18 09:19:37 Eo SpeedEvil Mar 18 09:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] [[Talk:WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] Mar 18 10:01:41 pH5: and the bluetooth <> audio connections are not setup right in the driver yet Mar 18 10:02:23 :? Mar 18 10:42:55 uhms... Mar 18 10:45:48 mickey|guests: as of python-openmoko. I think python works fairly well on ARM, and we have plenty of modules in OE. So this is more like a documentation project :) Mar 18 10:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] Mar 18 10:58:25 fg Mar 18 10:58:45 oops. Mar 18 11:08:48 <_buz> counter Mar 18 11:08:49 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 00:51:11 (16.036 +-7.0 days) (563) Mar 18 11:09:16 oo, not long Mar 18 11:09:25 <_buz> mhh my birthday is in second week of april Mar 18 11:09:46 so it's probable to get the phone in time :) Mar 18 11:10:11 <_buz> well i'm much more tempted by P1+ neo Mar 18 11:10:34 jejeje Mar 18 11:11:09 <_buz> i guess it depends on the discount they will give for p1+ Mar 18 11:11:34 mickey|guests: ping - typo in gsmd init script 'if [ -e "${GSM_POW} ]' Mar 18 11:11:44 (missing terminating '"') Mar 18 11:13:50 Hadaka: where are you from? Mar 18 11:13:55 mandarino: finland Mar 18 11:15:06 uh :P Nokiero :P Mar 18 11:15:28 mandarino: heh, well I *have* worked there when I was young Mar 18 11:16:18 In wich department? Mar 18 11:17:32 mandarino: NMT, AD side, was like 10 years ago Mar 18 11:18:04 but alas, I gotta flee, going swimming Mar 18 11:18:04 ta ta Mar 18 11:18:21 Cool! Mar 18 11:36:39 Res Mar 18 11:40:05 counter Mar 18 11:40:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 00:19:54 (16.014 +-7.0 days) (564) Mar 18 11:40:26 help Mar 18 11:40:44 terrex: eres español? Mar 18 11:40:53 si Mandarino Mar 18 11:40:57 xD Mar 18 11:41:01 rLz Mar 18 11:41:01 por? Mar 18 11:41:02 xDD Mar 18 11:41:10 Hi Mar 18 11:41:17 La DNS de Ono te delató xD Mar 18 11:41:44 JaJaJaJaJaJa Mar 18 11:42:15 Qué te trajo por aquí? Mar 18 11:44:05 pos una noticia en barrapunto jajja Mar 18 11:44:18 esk kiero un pda movil gps que no tenga windows X-D Mar 18 11:45:02 Probaste el A780 ? Mar 18 11:45:10 nop Mar 18 11:45:17 de ke marca? Mar 18 11:46:08 mickeyl: do you have a minute? Mar 18 11:46:13 sure, go ahea Mar 18 11:46:14 d Mar 18 11:46:35 Motorola Mar 18 11:46:51 you have mentioned that for SoC is also suitable some openmoko-libs work Mar 18 11:47:11 yes, we have some missing features that would need to be implemented Mar 18 11:47:31 if you can propose interesting new features we're all ears as well Mar 18 11:48:00 my problem is oposite Mar 18 11:48:09 mickeyl: you are always all ears :P Mar 18 11:48:13 i want to code something for openmoko using SoC Mar 18 11:48:22 but i doesnt know what exaxtly is needed Mar 18 11:48:44 so if you point me to something i will be glade t odo it Mar 18 11:49:19 and do the To-Do later..i need good todo for my personal use Mar 18 11:50:04 i found a bug with glibc-intermediate package is it gnulibc? or something else? Mar 18 11:50:57 Magon: have a look at the bug tracker Mar 18 11:51:04 see openmoko-libs product Mar 18 11:51:24 mickeyl: i found there just 6 bugs...let me have better look Mar 18 11:51:54 :) Mar 18 11:51:59 there is something like Mar 18 11:52:02 add dbus API Mar 18 11:52:05 add statusbar API Mar 18 11:52:06 etc. Mar 18 11:52:13 * CM cheers; first finished mokomakefile build! Mar 18 11:52:23 i am a bit more familiar with trac than bugzilla Mar 18 11:54:39 mickeyl: btw: are you considering being mentor? Mar 18 11:55:12 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 18 11:55:30 Magon: I'm afraid I need to, yeah Mar 18 11:55:41 :-) Mar 18 11:56:34 ok..all of the bugs are from you...so let see Mar 18 11:56:46 mickeyl: any ETA on merging svn completely into .dev? I'm getting a bit tired of seeing random people checking in broken stuff into openmoko svn Mar 18 11:57:37 btw: openmoko head is in openmoko tree or in OE already? Mar 18 11:59:16 Magon: it's in OE Mar 18 11:59:27 koen|lisboa: thx Mar 18 11:59:38 if you want a working gsmd, don't use svn Mar 18 12:00:15 koen|lisboa: no need for that one, i need head for developing and bugfixing Mar 18 12:01:51 mickeyl: footer with dbus api seems promising Mar 18 12:02:09 koen|lisboa: I'm afraidsorry, but this won't happen soon. Mar 18 12:02:39 mickeyl: ok, I will continue to cherrypick the few good bits Mar 18 12:02:39 i don't have time to start the discussion now, but we can't track a floating .dev now Mar 18 12:02:42 thanks Mar 18 12:02:56 we really try to merge frequently until the complete merge Mar 18 12:02:57 you might want to fix gsmd in svn Mar 18 12:03:06 mickeyl: I don't have a strong opinion on python-openmoko and 'bindings'. I think OE offers a great amount of python modules already Mar 18 12:03:07 is it broken? Mar 18 12:03:24 mickeyl: severely Mar 18 12:03:24 mickeyl: so his project will be more documenting how to ipkg install them and how to do development Mar 18 12:03:58 mickeyl: have a look at http://www.openembedded.org/viewmtn/diff.psp?id1=65373f0b51c390a7fb00a61b6a92e0f30d2c1eda&id2=dc7b99f90d2f57f9c74a1f48545658b2d9fd46a4 Mar 18 12:04:16 mickeyl: unless you want to tell me the gps chip can do gsm ;) Mar 18 12:04:47 heh Mar 18 12:04:49 that's our new super chip Mar 18 12:04:50 *cough* Mar 18 12:04:51 mickeyl: marcel and brad will start working on bluetooth as soon as they get near their neos Mar 18 12:04:52 thanks Mar 18 12:04:54 * mickeyl catches up Mar 18 12:05:06 hmm Mar 18 12:05:10 marcel should already have one!? Mar 18 12:05:10 mickeyl: also a typo in gsmd init script 'if [ -e "${GSM_POW} ]' Mar 18 12:05:11 * koen|lisboa waves to bmidgley Mar 18 12:05:22 mickeyl: marcel will be in .br for another week Mar 18 12:05:28 ah Mar 18 12:06:24 does anyone think that StatusBar(Footer) app is not worth of SoC? Mar 18 12:08:04 i think it's worthy. it's not that trivial. the client side API in libmokoui is probably easy, however since the footer app needs to keep do the demultiplexing, it's an interesting task Mar 18 12:08:54 interesting is that i would have to write a lot of dbus bindings Mar 18 12:09:09 mickeyl: is it just me, or have the latest OM builds lost rxvt running on boot, and no panel thingos for keyboard and battery and stuff. Mar 18 12:09:30 rwhitby: yeah. while i was away, LaF0rge changed the matchbox session file for some reason ... Mar 18 12:09:38 i'll put this all back asap Mar 18 12:09:47 right now my focus is gsm and dialer though Mar 18 12:09:52 mickeyl: IOW, you will sync with .dev ;) Mar 18 12:10:00 yes ;) Mar 18 12:10:31 hmm Mar 18 12:10:39 * mickeyl can't find how to add mentors to SoC Mar 18 12:10:59 mickeyl: AFAIK a mentor has to apply and the admin needs to approve Mar 18 12:11:04 * Magon looking how to apply for soc Mar 18 12:11:05 koen|lisboa: still traveling? Mar 18 12:11:05 ah, that way Mar 18 12:11:15 bmidgley: stuck at lisbon for 8 hours..... Mar 18 12:11:27 ouch Mar 18 12:11:41 bmidgley: yes Mar 18 12:13:47 and all the bookstores here only have stuff in portugese Mar 18 12:14:05 2500 words abstract...that is crazy Mar 18 12:15:01 Magon: editing it is pretty tedious, so get it right the first time Mar 18 12:15:16 * koen|lisboa spent too many hours cursing at the webUI last year Mar 18 12:15:40 ok...but do i need to write 2500 words? Mar 18 12:15:53 characters.... Mar 18 12:16:17 last year it was a 'hint' not a 'rule' Mar 18 12:16:30 haven't looked at this years version Mar 18 12:17:37 mickeyl: speaking about gsm and dialer, did the collabra guys contact you yet? Mar 18 12:17:45 no Mar 18 12:18:23 * mickeyl mumbles something about having the first device with working GSM for one day now Mar 18 12:19:00 does the devices of phase0 have working GSM? Mar 18 12:19:01 mickeyl: Robot101 had some ideas about how to implement sms Mar 18 12:19:54 (inside the telepathy framework) Mar 18 12:20:06 Magon: my phase0 gsm works fine. some don't apparently. Mar 18 12:20:51 wont some one write me an abstract? it seems to be more difficult than the application Mar 18 12:21:30 koen|lisboa: sounds good. i have no idea who is in charge of SMS at this point of time, IIRC one in fic.tw, so best throw this via openmoko-devel or bugzilla Mar 18 12:22:08 Robot101: now you know what to do :) Mar 18 12:27:19 http://www.ms.mff.cuni.cz/~kupem6am/abstract.txt - good so far ? Mar 18 12:28:59 Magon: the first sentence is missing an 'a' Mar 18 12:29:28 koen|lisboa: better? Mar 18 12:29:38 yes Mar 18 12:29:57 problem..what next? :-) Mar 18 12:30:07 interactions has only one 'r' Mar 18 12:30:25 reloa Mar 18 12:30:26 d Mar 18 12:30:46 i am not native speaker..it is probably easy to notice Mar 18 12:30:56 and there's no plural of information Mar 18 12:31:12 vmaster: oh..good point i completly forgot that Mar 18 12:31:12 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Reminder: Google SoC application deadline in 6 days Mar 18 12:31:39 'switching between the two most-' Mar 18 12:32:04 'catches events from the environment' or 'catches environmental events' Mar 18 12:32:18 displays current status Mar 18 12:32:22 of the device Mar 18 12:32:48 SpeedEvil: ok the i got the second..but have no idea what is wrong in the former Mar 18 12:33:03 sorry - which one? Mar 18 12:33:23 13:31 < SpeedEvil> 'switching between the two most-' Mar 18 12:33:52 you have "switching between two most-recent applications' Mar 18 12:34:02 to me, it flows better with 'the' in the middle. Mar 18 12:34:04 o i see Mar 18 12:34:35 Also 'most of the interactions >are< through d-bus services' Mar 18 12:35:02 that was stupind mistake.... Mar 18 12:36:01 you can get good image of you school system...i have best marks in english :-) Mar 18 12:36:19 Also - indications is not a commonly used word. Mar 18 12:36:19 next problem..what to add? Mar 18 12:36:34 "displaying specific information" - do you mean 'application specific information'? Mar 18 12:36:35 dialogs? I dunno. It's not incorrect. Mar 18 12:36:55 vmaster: yes Mar 18 12:37:16 and there's still a "the" missing in "current status of device" Mar 18 12:38:11 after each note reload pls Mar 18 12:38:43 vmaster: that was not to you...i hadn't is corrected Mar 18 12:38:44 I'd lose the 'also' before 'provides an API' Mar 18 12:39:29 ok..but what next..i have 2500 characters to use..that seems like 200 at most Mar 18 12:39:42 but do anyone know what is this for? Mar 18 12:40:19 mickeyl: do you need even more specific detailed info ?(displayed only to mentors) Mar 18 12:41:12 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Reminder: Google SoC application deadline in 6 days Mar 18 12:41:31 sorry, I can't afford time to read now Mar 18 12:41:43 you'll be able to refine it afterwards if it shouldn't be sufficient Mar 18 12:41:48 so just go ahead for the first run Mar 18 12:41:50 :) Mar 18 12:42:14 mickeyl: i am jsut writting the public part..and have no idea what to write to the private one Mar 18 12:42:26 i wish i could remember from last year Mar 18 12:42:29 you probably know more than me what i will be writting Mar 18 12:42:46 btw: it is my first time at SoC Mar 18 12:43:08 welcome on board. i've been a mentor before, but never was a student :) Mar 18 12:43:18 :-) Mar 18 12:43:20 (at GSoC at least) Mar 18 12:43:43 i suppose you have been a student..at some school at least :-) Mar 18 12:43:58 yeah Mar 18 12:44:07 1993-2001 Mar 18 12:44:12 :-) Mar 18 12:44:19 8 fun years w/ computer science Mar 18 12:44:38 yes...i am having something like that now Mar 18 12:44:59 but as always..students are always short of money Mar 18 12:46:13 SpeedEvil: Good morning :P Mar 18 12:52:48 vmaster, SpeedEvil: what about that(just one sentence added to end) Mar 18 12:53:08 who is in charge of the Google SoC for OpenMoko? Mar 18 12:53:22 i have no idea ;-) Mar 18 12:53:39 but i probably found my mentor Mar 18 12:56:10 koen|lisboa: fwiw, no neo here still. hoping it would be waiting for me Mar 18 12:56:24 bmidgley: ah, too bad Mar 18 12:57:57 * koen|lisboa wonders why http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko lists some vendors twice Mar 18 12:58:40 so you says that the abstract is correctable? Mar 18 12:59:46 how the proccess of choosing projects work? Mar 18 12:59:57 Magon: iirc it was last year Mar 18 13:07:30 there is easy way for changing abstract...but how the hell change detailed info? Mar 18 13:12:31 mickeyl: Back in the AI group, Dr. Rojas turned in abstracts to make us/his students write the paper for conferences. Don't you want to write my abstract? :} Mar 18 13:12:51 heh Mar 18 13:13:03 at this point of overload you shouldn't even consider asking me Mar 18 13:13:09 hehe Mar 18 13:13:11 right Mar 18 13:13:59 <_buz> koen|away: i think double listing is partly because nobody really knows what is truly gpl friendly and what blob Mar 18 13:14:38 mickeyl: application send Mar 18 13:17:37 who are the mentors in the moko community? i'd be interested in backup solutions and with contact syncing etc? Mar 18 13:19:29 <_buz> i think sync is being tackled by funambol Mar 18 13:20:23 okay Mar 18 13:20:49 how about that mapping application? Mar 18 13:21:47 how many students can openmoko have? Mar 18 13:22:02 i think it's about mentors Mar 18 13:22:09 google pays the bill Mar 18 13:22:13 :-) Mar 18 13:23:49 guaqua: is there any free provider of map data? Mar 18 13:24:37 openstreetmaps is one, i think Mar 18 13:37:18 i'd really like to do a lot for the openmoko project, but i've mostly done programming in python and java Mar 18 13:37:37 and at the moment python bindings are on the todo-list :S Mar 18 13:39:30 heh, might be the right time to learn a real programming language ;) Mar 18 13:39:50 http://openlayers.org/gallery/ Mar 18 13:39:55 real :F Mar 18 13:40:03 i've done some c and c++ Mar 18 13:50:15 heh Mar 18 13:50:38 it seems the python-openmoko dude started a project without checking the existing stuff and now gets all pissy about it Mar 18 13:51:24 so it's on par with the java-openmoko project Mar 18 13:51:34 no code, just lots of noise Mar 18 13:53:01 what would work on the bindings involve? writing a python module? Mar 18 13:53:39 guaqua: extending the work zecke already did Mar 18 13:56:12 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: python bindings Mar 18 13:56:50 openmoko: 03mickey * r1395 10/trunk/oe/packages/gsm/ (files/gsmd libgsmd_svn.bb): oe/gsm: fix remainders of gpsd start script. taken from OE upstream Mar 18 14:11:07 aloril: counter? Mar 18 14:11:08 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 2 weeks, a day 21:48:51 (15.909 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-02); 5 months, 4 weeks (181.909 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (565) Mar 18 14:11:16 \o/ Mar 18 14:18:46 muahahaa. this is hilarious (at least my point of view) http://scuba.kapsi.fi/temp/SneakPictureOfAslidePresentedAtMotorola.JPG Mar 18 15:09:30 guaqua: don't be shy ask here Mar 18 15:10:07 okay Mar 18 15:10:30 well in general, what does the python-openmoko do in practice? Mar 18 15:10:44 guaqua: libmokoui is the framework library used to create OpenMoko applications. Each widget/class is a GObject Mar 18 15:10:45 provides python bindings to the gtk? Mar 18 15:11:01 so libmokoui is the python library? Mar 18 15:11:14 guaqua: GObjects can be easily wrapped into other languaged like Python (http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-wrap/) Mar 18 15:11:37 does the work basically mean adding more gobjects then or? Mar 18 15:12:15 guaqua: it is mainly documenting the classes, keeping track of the libmokoui development and writing python examples Mar 18 15:12:24 mm Mar 18 15:12:24 okay Mar 18 15:13:40 so is python-openmoko-0.2 already usable? Mar 18 15:14:29 guaqua: I was able to show a MokoWindow, I have 0.3 which wraps every mokoui class Mar 18 15:14:41 and I'm waiting for the svn to work to import it then Mar 18 15:14:50 okay Mar 18 15:15:53 guaqua: the main issues are: Writing examples, making the wrappers more Gtk'ish, and keeping track of libmokoui changes Mar 18 15:16:45 and documentation Mar 18 15:17:23 how hard is it too get started with openmoko? Mar 18 15:17:28 s/too/to Mar 18 15:17:36 the sw dev environment Mar 18 15:18:41 get started and you'll see Mar 18 15:18:51 gambler: see mokomakefile Mar 18 15:18:56 it's not hard Mar 18 15:28:41 guaqua: how long did it take u in hours Mar 18 15:30:06 maybe 6 Mar 18 15:30:18 this is not a high-end machine however Mar 18 15:42:52 counter Mar 18 15:42:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, a day 20:17:07 (15.845 +-7.0 days) (566) Mar 18 16:14:20 <_buz> is it normal that monotone sits there for like 5minutes at a time during make setup in mokomakefile Mar 18 16:17:42 buz: Seems that way as I experienced similar behavior Mar 18 16:18:14 <_buz> mhh maybe OE SCM is overloaded or something like that Mar 18 16:18:20 <_buz> cant be my cpu or bandwidth Mar 18 16:21:04 will openmoko available in India? :) Mar 18 16:21:05 kart_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 18 16:51:57 Does anyone have experience with rendering svg on a device like this. I want to write an app that would ideally use SVG for it's main display, but I don't know how much processor is necessary for this Mar 18 16:53:02 mainly i need to be able rotate an svg image without it looking too jerky Mar 18 16:53:36 i'm just wondering if going that route would be wasting my time Mar 18 16:53:48 ...if the processor can't handle it Mar 18 16:53:59 <_ASK> well, it's probably going to be CPU expensive, because SVG allows for non regular shapes Mar 18 16:55:34 i'm guessing a lot of FP operations are involved in rendering svg too Mar 18 16:56:58 <_ASK> well, i suppose you would use an already written SVG engine, will you? Mar 18 16:57:23 <_ASK> because i don't think you're going to write your own; if you were to, you could do it with fixed point math Mar 18 16:57:31 yes, i was thinking cairo Mar 18 16:57:39 that is the only one I really know of anyways Mar 18 16:59:26 was hast du noch vor? Mar 18 16:59:27 carrumba: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 18 17:01:08 <_ASK> wer? Mar 18 17:03:35 <_ASK> peepsalot: you can try using a web browser Mar 18 17:04:20 _ASK, what do you mean? using it for what? Mar 18 17:04:31 <_ASK> the speed of SVG rendering Mar 18 17:04:52 well, i don't have a device to test it on Mar 18 17:04:59 peepsalot: I think cairo uses 16.16 fixed point internally (mostly). Mar 18 17:34:29 pH5: generally, did cairo have 3d accelerated backend? Mar 18 17:40:28 The u-boot NAND is separate from the 64MB NAND Flash, correct? Mar 18 17:41:04 Moo^^^: the glitz backend uses opengl Mar 18 17:41:16 DukeOfURL: incorrect :) Mar 18 17:41:43 pH5: thank you! I wasn Mar 18 17:41:59 pH5: thank you! I wasn't sure whether I head survived from the yesterday's relaxing Mar 18 17:42:39 The SoC docs say "NAND Flash bootloader". How does that fit in with the Neo design? Mar 18 17:43:08 Or is it the same NAND flash? Mar 18 17:43:54 no, it's the same NAND, there's only one chip Mar 18 17:44:38 So we'll be using the NAND flash controller on the SoC chip to access NAND? No internal flash on the SoC? Mar 18 17:47:29 Java is like C++ without the guns and knives. I realize Java has a huge footprint for embedded devices. What are your thoughts on programming languages for user-space apps? Mar 18 17:47:55 DukeOfURL: there's no internal flash Mar 18 17:49:58 Duke: bash, baby ;) Mar 18 17:50:07 heh Mar 18 17:50:18 why not C? Mar 18 17:50:52 C is nice; C++, too Mar 18 17:51:06 I can do C, but what higher level languages do you like? Perl? Python? Mar 18 17:51:20 DukeOfURL: what's your definition of 'huge' and which Java? J2SE? J2ME? Mar 18 17:51:31 J@SE Mar 18 17:51:36 i like python Mar 18 17:51:47 J2SE. Never user J2ME. Mar 18 17:51:49 perl is so hackish Mar 18 17:51:57 perl is so cute Mar 18 17:52:02 DukeOfURL: ok, then yes, it's too big. J2ME is better suited Mar 18 17:52:05 python rocks Mar 18 17:52:10 Perl is so everything. Mar 18 17:52:11 it can do anything so easily Mar 18 17:52:19 Awk is good for quick hacks. Mar 18 17:52:22 python is nice but I don't like whitespace languages Mar 18 17:52:24 perl _is_ so everything Mar 18 17:52:27 For text processing. Mar 18 17:52:30 Perl can do everything... 1000 different ways. Mar 18 17:52:39 999 of which can't be maintained Mar 18 17:52:43 * Stephmw hides Mar 18 17:52:43 I've even done realtime DSP in awk - that was silly :) Mar 18 17:52:47 Stephmw, :D Mar 18 17:53:04