**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 21 02:59:56 2007 Mar 21 03:42:28 openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1451 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (detail-area.c detail-area.h main.c): Fix gtk critical in detail area. Mar 21 03:43:20 empty_mind: cyborg Mar 21 03:51:56 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[File_Open_Dialog]] Mar 21 04:12:31 sumasuma, What model? (URL?) re: Motorola phone Mar 21 04:33:46 aloril, Mar 21 05:21:43 Hi Mar 21 06:50:11 counter Mar 21 06:50:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 05:09:48 (13.215 +-7.0 days) (582) Mar 21 06:52:59 tick, tock. Mar 21 06:54:05 :-) Mar 21 06:54:42 what I'm hoping for is wifi in Phase 1+. Mar 21 06:54:50 It will be nice to be able to add auto reconnect GPRS functionality for the IP storage bit. Mar 21 06:55:12 I have not quite figured out how to do that with the Rokr E2. Mar 21 06:56:04 Also the 128 MB of system memory means you can actually many more things than compared to 48 with the Rokr E2 as well. Mar 21 06:56:32 Plus a Linux v2.6 kernel helps alot. :-) Mar 21 06:56:49 I guess we'll get some info about possible wifi very soon Mar 21 06:57:19 Although the 64 MB on the 770 pretty much sucks unless swap on the MMC is used. Mar 21 06:57:26 s/770/Nokia 770 Mar 21 06:58:06 apt: morning Mar 21 06:58:08 Good morning! Mar 21 06:59:40 So lets see.. Mar 21 06:59:58 I think I would most like to see a camera and voice recording. Mar 21 07:00:53 But unless the device is plugged in with usbnet the entire time, you will probably want wifi with that. Mar 21 07:01:08 There is only one sane add-on. Mar 21 07:01:11 A pony. Mar 21 07:01:15 Hehe Mar 21 07:01:34 You can put lead-acid batteries in the saddlebags, and a USB hub with everything hanging off. Mar 21 07:01:39 I think a kick-ass media player that is "optimized" to play over both GPRS and Wifi speeds. Mar 21 07:01:55 * SpeedEvil is getting into OSM. Mar 21 07:01:57 Really this is just pre-buffering magic for the most part from the player. Mar 21 07:02:09 SpeedEvil: Saw an article about a family here in Sweden who had 2 cats, 3 dogs and a pony in their 3-room apartment. ;-) Mar 21 07:02:09 Ah yes. Mar 21 07:02:17 GPRS mp3. Mar 21 07:02:24 that's gonna be a winner :) Mar 21 07:02:44 Having a 128 MB system memory and optional SD swap will also the buffer cache to do its job.. :-) Mar 21 07:02:46 Actually. Mar 21 07:03:12 * SpeedEvil has mapped the 10Km or so round his house. At least more than it was. Mar 21 07:03:15 One of the biggest things I have noticed from working with iSCSI on the Rokr is the need for progress bars on everything related to struct file. Mar 21 07:03:50 For example, sometime there are long delays with the EZX filemanager when it does a stat() on each file in the framebuffer (typically six) Mar 21 07:03:50 Does the gps on the P1 neos work at all? Mar 21 07:03:59 Yes. Mar 21 07:04:02 However. Mar 21 07:04:09 the maker is anal. Mar 21 07:04:14 And won't release source. Mar 21 07:04:19 So over tri-band GPRS speeds this can back a bit.. Mar 21 07:04:23 :( Mar 21 07:04:28 So, they are having to work it out themselves. Mar 21 07:04:41 They allegedly have had the hardware working on P0. Mar 21 07:05:02 ~lart sneaky hardware vendors Mar 21 07:05:03 * apt pours gasoline all over sneaky hardware vendors, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Mar 21 07:05:03 However, nobodies worked out how to turn it on by themselves. Mar 21 07:05:08 Having a progress bar within the filemanger and all of the typical image, audio, video players and recorders will really help the end user to use these services. Mar 21 07:06:09 Most stuff will simply not usually be used over the network. Mar 21 07:06:24 And of course, it will be less problematic on the buffer cache page eviction on the Phase1 with the extra memory it has. Mar 21 07:06:58 I'll get the biggest uSD card I can (2 or 4 GB?) and fill half with mp3's Mar 21 07:06:58 If only as it all must be isolated as much as possible. I don't want apps touching the outside world unless they have to at a couple of pounds a meg. Mar 21 07:06:59 SpeedEvil: Yep, I remember alot of the early commerical stuff was based on the speed of the CD-ROM. Mar 21 07:06:59 :-) Mar 21 07:07:44 But actually, as long as a media player can accept the # of seconds to prebuffer and do its thing, things go quite well. Mar 21 07:08:02 Espically when we are talking about the wifi and usbnet cases. Mar 21 07:08:18 nab: File transfer over gprs just sucks Mar 21 07:08:36 CM: I am not talking about file transfers Mar 21 07:09:04 This is block level storage access over multiple communication links forming a multiplexing nexus. Mar 21 07:09:04 :-) Mar 21 07:09:05 nab: Then what? :) Mar 21 07:09:11 Aha Mar 21 07:09:19 Hehe Mar 21 07:09:30 In the typical general purpose GPRS usage case, the user has read-only filesystem mounts. Mar 21 07:09:39 No he doesn't. Mar 21 07:09:43 For thinks like the pre-indexed audio library, etc. Mar 21 07:09:46 Not unless he's barking mad. Mar 21 07:09:50 s/thinks/things Mar 21 07:10:11 Caching metadata off a read-only filesystem is an insane solution. Mar 21 07:10:22 Nono, that is just for your media library. Mar 21 07:10:41 It's a nasty workaround to simply getting the file over an efficient streaming protocol from a server on the machine. Mar 21 07:10:43 There are smaller R/W filesystem mounts used for different purposes. Mar 21 07:11:03 Nasty workaround..? Mar 21 07:11:32 How else do you suppose to move packets effitively for dataout operations..? Mar 21 07:11:41 A nasty workaround to the sillyness of pretending you've got a local block device when you are really connected to it over a very slow link. Mar 21 07:12:19 Think about it, if you want to get the photos off of the device over the GPRS, what other protocol would be used to safely get data on a remote host. Mar 21 07:12:33 And which point said photos can be uploaded to a hosting site. Mar 21 07:12:47 FTP, HTTP..? Mar 21 07:12:53 What happens with the GPRS link goes away..? Mar 21 07:13:05 It retries. Mar 21 07:13:15 It goes over a different route to the VPN server. Mar 21 07:13:16 What happens when the device's wifi PHY comes online..? Mar 21 07:13:23 It retries? Mar 21 07:13:31 How? Mar 21 07:13:38 :-) Mar 21 07:13:39 Multiple IP routes to a VPN server. Mar 21 07:13:57 The route that is preferred is chosen on a metric of cost and reliability. Mar 21 07:14:10 So the application saving said photo is expected to make HTTP or FTP retry? Mar 21 07:14:18 Nono. Mar 21 07:14:39 You don't do insane things like save photos remotely. Mar 21 07:14:49 You save them locally unless you have a high speed link. Mar 21 07:14:52 I am talking about on the client side for resuming interrupted transfers of data and/or taking advantage of wifi and usbnet when available. Mar 21 07:15:08 SpeedEvil: Who doesnt? Mar 21 07:15:19 Speak for yourself. :-) Mar 21 07:15:48 The point is that you want the application to not have to worry about taking care of any of that stuff. Mar 21 07:16:11 It just makes things harder for the application developers to get their own pieces up and running. Mar 21 07:17:07 Having a standardized protocol that defined things like multiple communication paths (MC/S) and active-active connection recovery (ERL=2) and being able to put this on an open platform is where the real benefit lies. Mar 21 07:17:10 I have to go to sleep now anyway. Mar 21 07:17:18 Feel free to code. Mar 21 07:17:19 Nice talking with you again Mar 21 07:17:42 SpeedEvil: That is what is happening. Mar 21 07:18:08 Progress is happening on linux-iscsi.org Mar 21 07:18:26 Hehe Mar 21 07:18:36 So you're the iscsi guy :) Mar 21 07:18:43 The Phase1 software package for IP services will be located at this page. Mar 21 07:18:53 CM: Hello Mar 21 07:18:55 :-) Mar 21 07:19:06 nab: I've heard you mentione before Mar 21 07:19:20 CM: It is fun to get back on IRC! Mar 21 07:19:43 It is great to see so much progress and interest is being made. Mar 21 07:20:21 I am really getting excited to get my hands on the Phase1 devices, and have a long list of work items for improvements to the research with the Rokr E2. Mar 21 07:21:00 The more open the phone is, the easier it is to do something really interesting and new :) Mar 21 07:21:04 There are also a few other devs working on a GTK based UI on the maemo.org platform, and are planning on getting this up on the Phase1 devices as well. Mar 21 07:22:34 There will also be instructions posted for developers on how to build the software for their devices, as well as using other open source iSCSI target software for their development environments. Mar 21 07:23:26 Being able to access lots and lots of storage over usbnet, and being able to manage a smaller amount for typical daily usage is one of the key goals. Mar 21 07:23:39 now..i happen to see the page at downloads.openmoko.org/sources...whats apps like abiword doing there...and do i have to build it as well for my toolchain? Mar 21 07:24:17 One of the very first milestones will be breaking the typical 32-bit LBA addressing limitation of 2 TB on a block device. Mar 21 07:24:33 And go from there. :-) Mar 21 07:25:26 The key piece to make the software usable by everyone will be the integration of human readable iSCSI aliases into the filemanager and application framework. Mar 21 07:25:53 As well as a simple to use iSCSI and iSNS software interface written in GTK. Mar 21 07:26:50 I looking to spend time on mockups for these pieces Mar 21 07:27:29 Actually, we should probably setup a mailing list for this. Mar 21 07:27:32 :-) Mar 21 07:28:02 There has been updates to the iSCSI/GSM and Rokr_E2 entries on linux-iscsi.org Mar 21 07:28:47 Espically on the former, there are a bunch of Q/A items for those folks interested. Mar 21 07:29:14 counter Mar 21 07:29:14 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 04:30:45 (13.188 +-7.0 days) (583) Mar 21 07:29:19 Very exciting. :-) Mar 21 07:32:09 I am thinking that the first openmoko.org / linux-iscsi.org project could be mobile audio library and GPS map import using iSNS and SLP discovery. Mar 21 07:32:38 CM: hmm..did that screen have touch recognition or did it have camera too? (referring to "With all your spell weaving handwaving talk you must love this screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jLmwjN4wwE ;) ") Mar 21 07:33:08 For the former, the question really becomes tuning on the application side and enough virtual memory to make the whole thing work. Mar 21 07:33:56 And when we are talking mp3 or equivant audio, this is not a huge requirement to play successfully. Mar 21 07:34:20 Espically when the media player can prebuffer up next audio tracks in the playlist continiously. Mar 21 07:34:35 aloril: I don't really know how it works, but it's "touch" senstitve within 15cm or sor Mar 21 07:34:45 s/sor/so./ Mar 21 07:34:46 CM meant: aloril: I don't really know how it works, but it's "touch" senstitve within 15cm or so. Mar 21 07:36:27 nab: I think yacc did the math and ended up saying that gprs as in neo1973 can't stream mp3 fast enough Mar 21 07:38:12 Tv: that's right ;) Mar 21 07:38:17 CM: there was no multitouch demo, anyway could be interesting start Mar 21 07:38:30 Tv: basically, the best you can expect is a slow POTS-style modem performance. Mar 21 07:38:38 Correct Mar 21 07:38:45 Tv: That's to slow for mp3. Mar 21 07:38:54 I have seen 3k on tri-band GPRS with the Rokr E2. Mar 21 07:39:01 so all you can do is ipod-like sync when home Mar 21 07:39:14 Combined with the small built-in flash, you cannot even buffer enough to make sense. Mar 21 07:39:19 doesn't need plugging in, just bt Mar 21 07:39:36 nab: I've seen up to 5K download in perfect conditions. Mar 21 07:39:38 well the SD can do 2GB, right Mar 21 07:39:41 yacc: That is where the players come in. Mar 21 07:39:41 :-) Mar 21 07:39:57 As long as you can wait for the first track, and the players can keep buffering, you are good to go Mar 21 07:40:16 We are only talking a few MB of buffer cache here. Mar 21 07:40:49 Keep in mind again, the audio case is one that does require a fair amount of tuning. Mar 21 07:41:15 But it has been done already on the Rokr E2. Mar 21 07:41:15 :-) Mar 21 07:41:19 nab: Well, 5KB/s is in perfect situations. And mp3 are usually encoded at 128kbps == 16KB/s or more. Mar 21 07:41:50 The only problem with that platform is that: Their player (at least as far as I can tell) based on Helix cannot change its 'seconds of prebuffer' Mar 21 07:42:06 So even with a perfect download which you won't have if you start moving around downtown, you'll still need 2.5 real-life seconds to fetch one second of music. Mar 21 07:42:28 nab: yeah, you can try reencoding with something more aggressive than mp3 ;) Mar 21 07:42:45 That combined with the fact that the Rokr E2 only has the 48 MB of system memory, so the buffer cache page eviction gets triggerd very fast, not to mention with the overhead of having to keep opera open for the GPRS link, et al. Mar 21 07:42:46 but at that point I'm just going to use my ipod.. Mar 21 07:42:51 yacc: :-) Mar 21 07:43:06 yacc: That would be an ideal solution as well. Mar 21 07:43:29 I'll use the Neo instead of an iPod Mar 21 07:43:39 But that might be hard for non-tech folks unless the software package does all of this for them. Mar 21 07:43:55 So I think that we need to plan for worst case with mp3s and go from there. Mar 21 07:44:16 nab: Worse the package must support MacOS, Windows and Linux for an reencoding host, PLUS you might have to watchout for patents that are dense in this area :( Mar 21 07:44:51 yacc: Yikes, it would have to be a better iTunes than iTuns. Mar 21 07:44:59 er iTunes, tough act to follow. Mar 21 07:45:08 what I see could happen Mar 21 07:45:14 Lets see, what else. Mar 21 07:45:26 is a 500MB song library that automatically changes all the time Mar 21 07:45:29 slower than realtime Mar 21 07:45:38 but still nicer than having to sync an ipod all the time Mar 21 07:46:02 Tv: The device would be updating its media index when it is plugged at home. Mar 21 07:46:07 Tv: that persumes an MicroSD add-on, plus a data flatrate. Mar 21 07:46:25 yacc: both doable for me at least in .fi, dunno about US Mar 21 07:46:27 Tv: you do know that you can count the countries with data flatrates available on the fingers of your hand? Mar 21 07:46:34 .fi! Mar 21 07:46:36 10 EUR/mo! Mar 21 07:46:41 all move in ;) Mar 21 07:46:46 .de: 39EUR/mo. Mar 21 07:47:04 btw, I had the impression that you are building yourself a flat in ca? *g* Mar 21 07:47:14 yah Mar 21 07:47:17 Yes. ;_0 Mar 21 07:47:32 Otherwise development would be going alot slower. Mar 21 07:47:41 OTOH there seems to be flatrates in the US too, see the mailing list ;) Mar 21 07:47:52 .ch now has data flats too, 2EUR for every day you transfer any data Mar 21 07:48:25 if you dont transfer any, you dont pay Mar 21 07:48:32 sort of day flat ;) Mar 21 07:48:48 So lets see.. Mar 21 07:49:22 as for interface, amarok 2.0 will run on win,osx,linux Mar 21 07:49:42 and easily talks to just about every mp3 player i have seen Mar 21 07:50:00 The original iSCSI tests used a 60 second Nopout + NopIn keep alive mechinism containg 48 byte header + 4 byte payload and 48 byte header respectively. Mar 21 07:50:16 Well, you should start first with an encoder that can give you sensible sound with say 3-5KB/s. Mar 21 07:50:29 there is no such encoder Mar 21 07:51:03 Take into account the realtive response, and you have 200 bytes transfered of application later traffic per second with no active data IO. Mar 21 07:51:04 buz: Really? Define "sensible" as on-the-run headphones quality in a busy subway Mar 21 07:51:14 For voice only there is, but not music I think.. Mar 21 07:51:23 even 128kbit mp3 sounds lousy Mar 21 07:51:43 buz: Well, that depends upon your encoder, and probably on your hearing. Mar 21 07:51:48 I imagine when you are not using the iSCSI storage, some logic could be added for 'on-demand' usage to save on the packet cost. Mar 21 07:51:55 yacc: well i have sennheiser deep in ear headphones, they just about halve the outside noise Mar 21 07:52:24 buz: yeah, but I'll do a bet: These won't come with the standard Neo package ;) Mar 21 07:52:26 even at best lame settings, 128kbit sounds somehow i don't know, unsharp? Mar 21 07:52:36 yacc: actually they have insulating ones on the pic Mar 21 07:53:08 ok, guys, I still need to pick up my laptop now, and drive to BMW ;) Mar 21 07:53:33 And that means a 400km drive :( Mar 21 07:54:08 i thought BMW - "Freude am Fahren" Mar 21 07:54:17 yacc: Have a good one! Mar 21 07:54:30 Actually, I suppose it is getting late here on the west coast.. Mar 21 07:54:46 buz: Well, first I drive a Passat. ;) Mar 21 07:55:46 Second: the weather is not perfect. (yacc, world champion in understatements, excluding Politicians ;) ) Mar 21 07:56:03 Well, bye for the moment. Mar 21 07:57:06 good trip then Mar 21 07:57:30 i wonder if expansys, purveyor of all things mobile, might be EU distributor? Mar 21 07:57:37 after all, they are shipping all over europe Mar 21 08:16:05 good morning Mar 21 08:23:42 gug Mar 21 08:28:12 'morning, Hopscotch Mar 21 08:28:51 openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1452 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (7 files): Mar 21 08:28:51 openmoko: Create a new message membership window instread of hide the original Mar 21 08:28:51 openmoko: Remove some compile warnings Mar 21 08:30:17 morning Mar 21 08:30:22 hi pavelm Mar 21 08:30:28 Hello, hrw Mar 21 08:30:50 pavelm: can you create release of tui? I will add it into OE then Mar 21 08:30:57 counter Mar 21 08:30:58 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 03:29:02 (13.145 +-7.0 days) (584) Mar 21 08:31:20 wow. 2 weeks +/- Mar 21 08:31:44 yeah.. 2 weeks to get neo without sidetone Mar 21 08:32:47 hrw: Really? I can make a tarball, but are you sure you want to make it go anywhere? Mar 21 08:32:59 yes, that's GTA01Bv4 or whatever it's called? Mar 21 08:33:05 aevin: yes Mar 21 08:33:40 pavelm: so it is not usable tool? Mar 21 08:34:20 and later there'll be GTA01BWVv1 !! -- the first Neo with bluetooth, wifi and V12!! Mar 21 08:34:29 ;DDDD Mar 21 08:34:43 hrw: It is usable tool -- for me anyway. Mar 21 08:34:57 hrw: Ok, I'll create you a tarball. Mar 21 08:35:22 pavelm: and makefile without '-static'? Mar 21 08:36:37 I never compiled it without -static; but I guess that is not its biggest problem. Mar 21 08:37:05 ...it works on openmoko, but you have to imagine rxvt screen split to 9 buttons, and control it by pressing them. Mar 21 08:37:22 so thats how it works.. Mar 21 08:38:09 ....still interested? Mar 21 08:40:19 pavelm: first will test recent openmoko-dialer then Mar 21 08:40:26 ;D Mar 21 08:41:20 hrw: If you get openmoko-dialer to work, let me know. So far it crashed on me when trying to press "dial" button. Mar 21 08:44:31 pavelm: I think mickeyl used it to call yesterday Mar 21 08:45:43 CM: does it work with gsmd, as originally designed? Mar 21 08:46:11 I think so, but with some ugly hacks Mar 21 08:47:48 * CM waits for mickey|zzZZzz to tell the facts. Mar 21 08:48:01 anyway tui is at http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/outgoing/tui-0.0.tgz Mar 21 08:50:55 pavelm: why you do not use sf.net release stuff/ Mar 21 08:50:57 ? Mar 21 08:51:21 hrw: I have not figured out how to use it :-( Mar 21 08:51:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Mandarino]] [[FAQ/de]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] [[Neo1973_Battery/de]] [[Battery/de]] Mar 21 08:53:45 ;( Mar 21 08:54:19 pavelm: which thinkpad you have? Mar 21 08:56:42 hrw: x60. Mar 21 08:58:02 pavelm: no one at suse.cz want to sell x31/x32? :D Mar 21 08:58:55 hrw: We have one nice x32 there... but it is suse's. Mar 21 08:59:10 hrw: but we are still searching for hackers ;-) Mar 21 09:00:15 pavelm: I like debian Mar 21 09:00:34 hrw: that's okay, I run debian, too... ;-) Mar 21 09:01:00 hrw: (On my primary machine, anyway, but don't tell anyone :-) Mar 21 09:01:15 hrw: If you want _nice notebook_, get olpc. Mar 21 09:01:26 hrw: oe on it is going to be usable, unlike sugar. Mar 21 09:05:59 pavelm: too small keys Mar 21 09:06:31 hrw: okay, keyboard is ugly, but maybe good enough on the road. Mar 21 09:06:40 hrw: and you connect usb keyboard on desktop. Mar 21 09:13:03 mokomakefile breaks when you are behind a proxy ! Mar 21 09:13:03 I'd like to add rxvt to home screen on openmoko... Mar 21 09:13:23 ...where do I find the file hierarchy describing it? Mar 21 09:14:56 ...got it, /usr/share/applications/ Mar 21 09:15:41 pavelm: install gpe-terminal Mar 21 09:15:56 sumasuma: what break? Mar 21 09:16:41 hrw: I do not think this openmoko is in state where installing ipkg would be good idea. Mar 21 09:17:04 hrw: I just installed some snapshot from downloads.openmoko.../tmp Mar 21 09:17:19 hrw: I wonder how wise it would be to just take spitz userland and run it there? Mar 21 09:18:25 it is not wise Mar 21 09:18:55 sumasuma: no it doesn't Mar 21 09:19:22 sumasuma: You didn't read GettingStarted on how to use it behind a proxy Mar 21 09:20:19 hrw: Okay, given that I'm too impatient to wait for phase1, and not enough hacker to get mokomakefile to work... what should I do? Mar 21 09:20:43 w8 Mar 21 09:20:51 :-) Mar 21 09:23:57 Any idea when oz-3.5.5 is expected? Mar 21 09:24:10 never? Mar 21 09:25:32 hrw: Can you elaborate? I guess someone should update http://openzaurus.linuxtogo.org/wordpress/ page, then. Mar 21 09:25:45 hrw: Time to update to oz-3.5.4.1 on my spitz, then... Mar 21 09:29:17 pavelm: due to lack of time 3.5.5 has no test release Mar 21 09:30:35 hrw: no test release, or you scrapped plans to do 3.5.5 altogether? Mar 21 09:31:14 (I guess I should say "thank you" for oz work). Mar 21 09:32:21 shit. my neo stuck on generating key for dropbear for too long... Mar 21 09:51:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Current_events]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 21 09:56:29 morning Mar 21 09:56:40 hey TRIsoft Mar 21 09:56:44 hi Mac Mar 21 09:57:49 Hi koen and hrw. Missed something important in the last two days ? Mar 21 09:58:07 we can actually make phonecalls now :) Mar 21 09:58:23 From console or is the dialer app running ? ;-) Mar 21 09:58:28 dialer Mar 21 09:58:30 see http://planet.openmoko.org/ :) Mar 21 09:59:11 Hey, looks nice. Good job ! Mar 21 09:59:47 that guy which designed power button should be shoot Mar 21 10:02:37 koen: with angstrom images I do not see a way to add onscreen keyboard Mar 21 10:02:52 ? Mar 21 10:02:57 it's present by default Mar 21 10:03:19 koen: in mb-panel2?? Mar 21 10:03:28 yes Mar 21 10:03:42 hrw: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/images/neo-calling.png Mar 21 10:03:47 it's the white rectangle Mar 21 10:04:07 koen: not here ;( Mar 21 10:04:22 matchbox-panel --start-applets=showdesktop,systray,windowselector --end-applets=openmoko-panel-demo-simple,openmoko-panel-battery,o Mar 21 10:04:32 thats what I got Mar 21 10:04:43 matchbox-panel --start-applets=showdesktop,systray,windowselector --end-applets=openmoko-panel-demo-simple,openmoko-panel-battery,openmoko-panel-clock,openmoko-panel-gsm & Mar 21 10:04:46 to be exact Mar 21 10:04:49 scroll down a bit in the session file Mar 21 10:04:57 mbinputmgr & Mar 21 10:05:16 it does not work here Mar 21 10:05:44 *lightbulb* Mar 21 10:05:50 do you have matchbox-keyboard installed? Mar 21 10:06:22 nope Mar 21 10:06:31 it was not present in tasks Mar 21 10:06:50 RDEPENDS_task-openmoko-demo = "\ Mar 21 10:06:50 matchbox-desktop \ Mar 21 10:06:50 matchbox-keyboard \ Mar 21 10:07:16 ok. Mar 21 10:07:21 hrw: ah, I figured it out Mar 21 10:07:31 hrw: I have installed openmoko-devel-image Mar 21 10:07:56 which has task-openmoko-demo Mar 21 10:08:06 I have my version of openmoko-image (with added stuff) Mar 21 10:08:24 ipkg install task-openmoko-demo Mar 21 10:10:27 ~lart usbnet Mar 21 10:10:27 * apt wallops usbnet with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long Mar 21 10:11:38 hrw: ok, I 'fixed' openmoko-image in OE Mar 21 10:11:47 thx Mar 21 10:11:54 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-demo: libcairo2 (>= 1.4.2) Mar 21 10:11:57 ;D Mar 21 10:13:07 koen: can you? Mar 21 10:13:34 looks like pyhton on openmoko is a hot property, every second guy i talk to wants to port python on openmoko Mar 21 10:13:53 hrw: working on it :) Mar 21 10:14:30 one question, if google SoC selects pyhton porting as a project, do i get to mentor the kids ? Mar 21 10:15:08 empty_mind: join SoC as mentor? Mar 21 10:16:31 hrw, i am already mentoring a second year engg. kid who has joined the project as junior developer Mar 21 10:20:46 hrw: try now Mar 21 10:21:25 hrw: and could you ask the o-hand dudes to fix (openmoko-)dates so they don't depend on each other? Mar 21 10:21:41 koen: I will look at it as OH guy Mar 21 10:22:27 koen: its bug in packaging probably Mar 21 10:22:38 I'm checking now Mar 21 10:23:08 empty: Yep, python is important... for "scripting with gui". Mar 21 10:25:38 time to exchange battery... Mar 21 10:26:18 hrw - Hi! :) Mar 21 10:28:19 non-original batteries roxx Mar 21 10:29:28 hrw: I did not have good experience with them. Mar 21 10:30:47 pavelm: neo charging is .... or .... Mar 21 10:33:30 empty_mind: has someone applied for the python work as soc project? Mar 21 10:33:49 hrw: I guess using nokia as a charger is nice ;-). Mar 21 10:34:19 pavelm: I use 3rdparty battery charger Mar 21 10:34:28 guaqua, i got personal email asking for help in drafting the SoC application for python porting Mar 21 10:34:42 okay Mar 21 10:34:56 guaqua, as i have no experience of SoC i could not him him much Mar 21 10:35:09 Packaged contents of libgtkdatesview into /home/hrw/devel/build/openmoko/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/libgtkdatesview_0.3.1-r2_armv4t.ipk Mar 21 10:35:31 guaqua, sadly SoC started the year i finished the college, so i could never make money through SoC or join Google Mar 21 10:35:43 :( Mar 21 10:36:28 hrw: Such thing exists for nokia batteries? Wow Mar 21 10:38:06 counter Mar 21 10:38:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 01:21:52 (13.057 +-7.0 days) (585) Mar 21 10:39:32 aloril, what is 585 ? number of orders ? Mar 21 10:39:42 number of times the script was called Mar 21 10:41:44 pavelm: I paid <2 EUR for it Mar 21 10:42:12 koen: dates<>openmoko-dates is more complicated even Mar 21 10:42:33 hrw: Be sure not to leave it plugged in when you are not watching it, then :-) Mar 21 10:42:37 hrw: that's why I asked you :) Mar 21 10:42:44 ;D Mar 21 11:19:48 hi zecke Mar 21 11:20:10 * florian loves Nokia for their Neo battery chargers Mar 21 11:20:55 lol Mar 21 11:21:02 which power jack size? Mar 21 11:21:36 Stephmw: its not the jack, i use my nokia bluetooth GPS as a charger :-) Mar 21 11:22:54 LaF0rge: thaks I received the data Mar 21 11:23:23 florian: I'm gonna need a photo to understand - can't get my head round that ;) Mar 21 11:24:22 hi Mar 21 11:24:33 Stephmw: its trivial... the battery is almost the same Mar 21 11:24:36 hi greentux Mar 21 11:25:36 florian: AHHHH Mar 21 11:25:43 florian: now I get you Mar 21 11:25:52 florian: I do the same thing at work Mar 21 11:26:07 florian: number of protos' software just have buggy charging Mar 21 11:26:22 unfortunately moko battery does not work in nokia cellphone :-( Mar 21 11:26:48 pavelm: oh Mar 21 11:26:48 my nokia battery is old and broken, while moko has nice, new 1200mAh battery ;-) Mar 21 11:27:28 luckily my ld-3g charges it even if it is flat... in contrast to the neo Mar 21 11:28:21 aye, occasionally you have to re-calibrate the handsets Mar 21 11:28:52 * pavelm is probably fortunate, because my neo seems to charge ok. Mar 21 11:29:36 pavelm: discharge neo and then talk ;) Mar 21 11:30:14 hrw: It was so dead it entered the reboot loop, already. I do not want to kill my neo on purpose, but I think I was lucky. Mar 21 11:51:25 openmoko: 03thomas * r1453 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/gtk-stock/ (63 files): * Rename files to match gtk+ stock filenames Mar 21 11:51:52 openmoko: 03thomas * r1454 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/gtk-stock/gtk-clean.svg: * Remove bogus file Mar 21 11:51:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Summer_of_code]] Mar 21 11:59:48 does someone have an idea what the LM4857 may be returning when you *read* from it through i2c? Mar 21 12:00:10 there's only writing described in the datasheet Mar 21 12:03:22 or will it not ACK the address at all if you try to read? Mar 21 12:04:50 openmoko: 03thomas * r1455 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/gtk-stock/ (94 files): * Rename more files to gtk+ stock names Mar 21 12:05:02 balrog: Hard to say. i2c chips are usually ugly hacks... Mar 21 12:05:22 balrog-kun: in the best case you will get back what you wrote. Mar 21 12:06:34 Anyone has a guess what kind of battery time to expect for a P1 device? Mar 21 12:07:18 i could check it if i had an u-boot cmdline access to a Neo :/ Mar 21 12:07:21 CM: 2 or 3 days standby iirc Mar 21 12:07:29 i will go for the not ACK option i guess Mar 21 12:07:32 koen: Oh, nice :) Mar 21 12:13:48 . o O ( Only 4 SoC applications for OpenMoko? I'm surprised... ) Mar 21 12:22:14 * koen gives up on figuring out how to close dates and files a bug Mar 21 12:23:44 koen: you found how to create events? Mar 21 12:24:24 hrw: yes, rsync ~.evolution/ from your host Mar 21 12:24:26 hrw Tap and drag Mar 21 12:31:09 * pavelm updated his zaurus to latest version... now I have mp3 player, but my carefuly setup bluetooth connectivity is (of course) broken :-( Mar 21 12:33:49 openmoko: 03thomas * r1456 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/ (209 files in 5 dirs): * Move stock icons into icon theme Mar 21 12:37:25 Yay! my Neo finally arrived! Mar 21 12:37:34 philippe: congrats Mar 21 12:38:14 I hope customs did not lose stuff as they opened it. Mar 21 12:43:36 i think mine got sent to my old address, i had no idea it would be delayed so much that i'd be moving out Mar 21 12:46:13 ohh... no debug board :-( Mar 21 12:46:37 philippe: some devs did not get it Mar 21 12:47:13 philippe: too bad that you got marked as such ;( Mar 21 12:47:42 hrw: I know. It might have been very useful as I am probably the only one in Finland to have one... Mar 21 12:48:28 philippe: pester coreteam to send you debugboard with p1 phone Mar 21 12:49:20 hrw: that's an idea :-) Mar 21 12:49:46 the sidetone isn't too bad Mar 21 12:51:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Documentation]] Mar 21 12:55:27 Wow! I am impressed by the screen.. Really sharp. Better than my n800 Mar 21 12:55:40 50 more dots per inch Mar 21 12:55:49 you guys are making me jealous ;( Mar 21 12:56:22 counter Mar 21 12:56:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 23:03:38 (12.961 +-7.0 days) (586) Mar 21 12:56:58 :( - I can't wait... Mar 21 12:57:53 oo, two weeks Mar 21 13:28:45 I'm trying to run openmoko on x86 arch, but got error: "GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Can not open pixbuf loader module file '/etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders': No such file or directory" Mar 21 13:31:55 DenisBY: sounds like you need to install some pixbufloaders Mar 21 13:32:35 yes, but I'm in chrooted env in openmoko :) Mar 21 13:33:21 koen: ping Mar 21 13:33:33 prpplague: pong! Mar 21 13:33:49 koen: hey, i need your opinion on something Mar 21 13:34:12 koen: working with a less than perfect documentation Mar 21 13:34:34 koen: where an address is listed as "8030_807f" Mar 21 13:34:54 koen: would you take that to be 8030 thru 807f ? Mar 21 13:35:13 koen: normally i see that kind of notation with a "-" or ":" Mar 21 13:35:21 - or : would be better Mar 21 13:35:21 koen: never seen one with a "_" Mar 21 13:35:48 koen: yea Mar 21 13:36:16 * prpplague curses bad documentation Mar 21 13:36:27 koen: i suspect that it was translated badly Mar 21 13:37:49 I would prefer : Mar 21 13:38:18 koen: yea, thats what i prefer seeing as well, the question is what these people intended to say Mar 21 13:38:47 openmoko: 03mickey * r1457 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (files/session openmoko-common_svn.bb openmoko-session_svn.bb): Mar 21 13:38:47 openmoko: oe/openmoko-session: launch dialer in background within session file (taken from OE) Mar 21 13:38:47 openmoko: NOTE: starting dialer from main menu is just a workaround until the AUX button handling is done Mar 21 13:39:18 so AUX will call dialer? Mar 21 13:39:19 openmoko: 03mickey * r1458 10/trunk/oe/packages/sysvinit/sysvinit_2.86.bb: oe/sysvinit: bump PR Mar 21 13:40:18 hrw: yes Mar 21 13:40:27 aux tap Mar 21 13:40:31 aux hold will open menu Mar 21 13:40:49 with "open dialer, change profile, and some additional things" Mar 21 13:40:52 mickey|zzZZzz: should the dialer be launched by default? Mar 21 13:41:12 you mean the dialer UI? Mar 21 13:41:12 receiving calls is a bit hard without :) Mar 21 13:41:17 ah Mar 21 13:41:19 yes, of course Mar 21 13:41:26 we consider it being a daemon Mar 21 13:41:42 it will always handle most of the phone part Mar 21 13:41:45 so it needs to run Mar 21 13:42:07 on incoming call it should bring itself into the foreground Mar 21 13:42:10 dunno whether it does that yet Mar 21 13:42:16 Mickey is able to answer while sleeping :-O Mar 21 13:42:23 morning TRIsoft Mar 21 13:42:27 morning :D Mar 21 13:42:40 mickey|busy: no chance to get better power button? Mar 21 13:42:52 hrw: -> bugzilla Mar 21 13:42:53 Hardware Mar 21 13:43:00 Button Quality Mar 21 13:43:02 please add Mar 21 13:43:04 ok Mar 21 13:43:11 I will support this request Mar 21 13:43:40 there might be a chance left to get this in the p1 devices Mar 21 13:43:55 mickey|busy: ho, I will commit the rss reader tonight Mar 21 13:44:01 zecke|study: cool! Mar 21 13:44:14 mickey|busy: for the bindings I will wait until gforge is fixed Mar 21 13:44:17 zecke|study: let's show the shanghai devels how a real app using the framework can look like :) Mar 21 13:44:21 zecke|study: agreed Mar 21 13:44:49 mickey|busy: and I need to look into the concept of boxing or add a method to moko_tree_view to resize my columns properly Mar 21 13:44:58 mickey|busy: gtk_tree_view_columns_autosize is stupid... Mar 21 13:45:14 mickey|busy: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=296 needs to get solved before p2 Mar 21 13:45:43 koen: you bet Mar 21 13:49:28 my neo freezed again Mar 21 13:49:40 hrw: froze :p Mar 21 13:49:49 Sup3rkiddo: okej Mar 21 13:50:06 root@fic-gta01:~$ uptime Mar 21 13:50:06 13:50:01 up 23:37, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Mar 21 13:50:27 uptime suxx Mar 21 13:50:34 14:49 hrw@home:~$ uptime 14:50:20 up 2 days, 4:26, 1 user, load average: 0.25, 0.45, 0.70 Mar 21 13:50:47 machine was enabled 6h ago Mar 21 13:50:53 heh Mar 21 13:51:48 hrw: How did it freeze? Mar 21 13:51:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[Talk:Translation]] Mar 21 13:52:10 alphaone: no reaction to screen or usbnet Mar 21 13:52:11 Never had that after the 64M bug was fixed Mar 21 13:52:17 Ouch Mar 21 13:52:30 alphaone: 64M need uboot update? Mar 21 13:52:47 yes Mar 21 13:52:58 then you know why Mar 21 13:53:11 * hrw do not want to fight with devirginator again Mar 21 13:53:25 One of the address pins for the ram wasn't configured as such Mar 21 13:53:26 uboot + dfu-util does not match for me Mar 21 13:53:55 hrw: devirginator won't work Mar 21 13:54:12 koen: really? I rescued two phones with it Mar 21 13:54:35 hrw: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245 Mar 21 13:54:40 That's the bug Mar 21 13:54:50 hrw: the new uboot reports different partition names Mar 21 13:55:27 FYI: I took two hires photos of a silver/black Neo1973 and uploaded them to http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/images/ Mar 21 13:56:17 koen: no way to get a new uboot flashed without debug board I guess... Mar 21 13:56:31 DFU flashes new uboots very nice Mar 21 13:56:32 philippe: dfu-util is what I use Mar 21 13:56:46 hmm, my phone is missing icons :-) Mar 21 13:56:54 ah ok. Then it should be okay, Mar 21 13:57:31 the only caveat is that older uboots have the timeout bug during dfu Mar 21 13:57:39 so you need to regularly press aux until you have a newer uboot Mar 21 13:57:42 which is kind of ok Mar 21 13:57:58 since uboot is transferred in 2 seconds Mar 21 13:58:05 mickey|busy: higher-res: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/sets/72157594573486523/ ;) Mar 21 13:58:06 mickey|busy: pressing aux? I guess the powerbutton? Mar 21 13:58:12 no, aux Mar 21 13:58:23 power selects a menu item, aux scrolls Mar 21 13:59:12 hmmm, let's find some info on that aux button. Don't immediately see it Mar 21 13:59:33 philippe: black you have? Mar 21 13:59:40 koen: your camera is better. can you take a photo of a neo w/ dialer in action and the neo being on a white non-textured surface? (reason: we need it as image for a book cover) Mar 21 13:59:41 There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Also see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Mar 21 13:59:43 philippe: Left top. It's not irda. :) Mar 21 14:00:09 hehe Mar 21 14:00:18 aloril: looks like you need to teach the script a bit more intelligence Mar 21 14:00:19 stefan_schmidt: just found it on the wiki. Idd thought it was irda too :-) Mar 21 14:00:35 mickey|busy: sure, give me a few minutes Mar 21 14:00:37 hrw: black yes :-) Mar 21 14:00:39 thanks a lot! Mar 21 14:02:46 OK. I have 20070321 u-boot Mar 21 14:04:05 mickey|busy: moko-themes broke Mar 21 14:04:28 why/how? Mar 21 14:04:54 mickey|busy: Book cover... (/me makes a note about looking on opensource press about new books in the next months) Mar 21 14:06:57 stefan_schmidt: don't hold your breath. i'm starting to write in April Mar 21 14:07:04 release not before 2008 Mar 21 14:07:24 mickey|busy: heh, ok. Mar 21 14:08:44 mickey|busy: Bug 300 has been added to the database Mar 21 14:09:38 mickey|busy: #297,#299 (harald did not yet update svn on buildhost-old) Mar 21 14:10:08 ah, icon-theme Mar 21 14:10:11 that's something else Mar 21 14:10:22 i guess thos is currently working on that Mar 21 14:11:02 zecke|study: would it be possible to get the log.do_ output w/ the bug entries? Mar 21 14:11:12 (as attachement) Mar 21 14:11:40 so we could easily (more or less) see what's wrong Mar 21 14:11:59 hrw: thanks Mar 21 14:11:59 mickey|busy: I will check why the code fails to do that Mar 21 14:13:10 * zecke|study adds this to the pile of stuff Mar 21 14:13:47 thanks Mar 21 14:13:50 commented on #300 Mar 21 14:14:22 hmm Mar 21 14:14:33 thx Mar 21 14:14:40 mickey|busy: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=252 hmm attaching logs worked there Mar 21 14:17:46 right Mar 21 14:17:49 it stopped doing that Mar 21 14:19:41 hi all! i want to participate in the google SoC program, and I'm currently considering the possibilty to write something for open moko Mar 21 14:20:50 i personally think that 'Wishlist:context based to-do list' task is very interesting one. however, i haven't touched anything related to openmoko up to now. Mar 21 14:20:53 I would like to but I'll have to wait till next year! Mar 21 14:22:14 any hints for some startup read? the task seems intriguing... but all i have worked with until now is kde/c++/qt development (and some basic c programs which don't count) Mar 21 14:22:15 h_ivanov: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 21 14:25:32 so everything you write is gtk (pure c), right? Mar 21 14:25:49 gtkmm will be also accepted I think Mar 21 14:26:11 h_ivanov: as long as it works on an ARM and has not too many dependencies it will be acceptable Mar 21 14:26:37 h_ivanov: e.g. objective-c or c++ are acceptable choiches, C is preferred though Mar 21 14:27:05 when I get mine I'm getting guile + gnome-guile up Mar 21 14:27:07 i've been using qt for up to 2 years now, can someone tell me if there are some frapant differences with gtk? Mar 21 14:27:36 from what i've seen from the tutorial it's not such a big deal to learn the 'other side' Mar 21 14:27:36 openmoko: 03thomas * r1459 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/scalable/ (Makefile.am stock/Makefile.am): * Add missing makefiles Mar 21 14:28:21 h_ivanov: both mickey and me are Qt hackers Mar 21 14:28:40 zecke|study: so, is there any hope in running qt things on moko? Mar 21 14:28:41 or not? Mar 21 14:28:49 short-run: no Mar 21 14:28:51 mid-run: yes Mar 21 14:28:54 h_ivanov: I'm just learning Gtk+ Mar 21 14:29:34 h_ivanov: gtk is quite easy mate Mar 21 14:30:00 ok, that's learnable, from what i've seen, there are so many similarities Mar 21 14:30:20 just i haven't used to program graphical things in pure c Mar 21 14:30:36 technically it's pure C, conceptually it's OO Mar 21 14:30:37 however, as i said before, the idea seems very intriguing Mar 21 14:30:43 so the difference is not really far Mar 21 14:30:48 s/far/huge/ Mar 21 14:30:48 mickey|busy meant: so the difference is not really huge Mar 21 14:31:30 h_ivanov: not a big deal....if you are from qt, gtk should be a piece of cake... Mar 21 14:32:57 ~change 350 usd to eur Mar 21 14:33:03 350.00 United States Dollar (USD) makes 263.108 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/) Mar 21 14:33:13 so, how can you folks make me think of working for open moko the most fun and enjoyable thing to do in my spare time? :) right now i'm trying to find out the following things: Mar 21 14:33:28 can anyone tell me give me a rough estimate about the number of packages getting downloaded for the toolchain Mar 21 14:34:20 first, are there any parts ready (besides some widgets)? the ideas for functionality suggest a pile of code should be written (gps-based positioning is the most scary part of all) Mar 21 14:34:39 (the other functionality won't be so hard to implement, though) Mar 21 14:35:09 someone already used neo usbhost? Mar 21 14:36:07 hmm...the MokoMakefile seems to be skipping packages that didnt install cleanly the first time Mar 21 14:37:52 Sup3rkiddo: the makefile doesn't skip anything Mar 21 14:39:36 koen: hmm...for example the last time it didnt compile gtk but complained about some missing patch...i did the usual routine when such things happen, and now it has started work with uboot...fine with me if thats normal :D Mar 21 14:40:06 Sup3rkiddo: the makefile is only a tool to aid you setting up your environment Mar 21 14:40:11 nothing more, nothing less Mar 21 14:40:40 koen: ah ok...maybe i should do RTFM first ;P Mar 21 14:41:12 Sup3rkiddo: if you can read the wiki, you don't need the makefile Mar 21 14:41:41 koen: oh!..i will take a look...thanks Mar 21 14:42:03 like I said: "the makefile is only a tool to aid you setting up your environment" Mar 21 14:42:17 Sup3rkiddo: Also, the makefile will redo things like kernel and uboot when svn is updated, then continute where it stopped last time Mar 21 14:42:21 koen: yup... Mar 21 14:42:27 CM: ah...ok.. Mar 21 14:42:29 At least that's what happened for me Mar 21 14:42:48 CM: I think that's the bitbake patch openmoko uses, not the makefile Mar 21 14:43:13 vow..Makefile causes confusion ;P Mar 21 14:44:06 koen: Guess I should say "When the makefile calls bitbake.." instead ;) Mar 21 14:44:57 mickey|busy: any short term plans for a 'moko-launcher' that initializes gtk+, fontconfig, pango, etc? Mar 21 14:45:41 CM: any idea about the number of tarballs getting downloaded in the 'sources/'...curious to know my progress "Setting up my environment" Mar 21 14:46:13 koen: you mean quick-launch-style? yes, some plans in the back of my mind, but nothing concrete yet Mar 21 14:46:22 Sup3rkiddo: I can check :) Mar 21 14:46:26 koen: would you like to add a feature-wish bug entry for that? Mar 21 14:46:32 koen: we could brainstorm a bit there Mar 21 14:46:35 bbiab Mar 21 14:46:37 CM: great Mar 21 14:46:42 mickey|busy: there's a thread on the cairo list discussing a small program to initialize stuff Mar 21 14:46:48 * koen heads to bugzilla Mar 21 14:48:15 it's ok if rootfs is mounting as ro? Mar 21 14:48:34 I'm trying to run it under vmware Mar 21 14:48:46 what sort of battery life are people seeing so far? (I know the standby consumption is being improved, but ...) Mar 21 14:48:47 jaytee: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 21 14:49:06 The current version has major hardware bugs. Mar 21 14:49:16 That affect the standby time. Mar 21 14:49:20 Sup3rkiddo: I seem to have 216 files in the /sources/ folder and a few more in the svn and git folders in there Mar 21 14:49:23 mickey|busy: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=301 Mar 21 14:49:28 Currently it lasts around 5.5 hours with the backlight on. Mar 21 14:49:29 that's what i had read Mar 21 14:49:40 CM: 216? okie dokie..thanks a million Mar 21 14:49:41 and the processor running. Mar 21 14:50:05 hmm... continually backlit? Mar 21 14:50:06 CM: wierd..i have 257 Mar 21 14:50:21 Sup3rkiddo: That's just counting .md5 files, and I do have duplicastes of several soruce files Mar 21 14:50:41 CM, ack Mar 21 14:50:56 ls -l | wc -l in the folder gives 486 :) Mar 21 14:51:08 CM: half way then..almost Mar 21 14:51:23 SpeedEvil: any data on battery life as mp3 player? Mar 21 14:51:25 koen@bitbake:~/OE/monotone/org.openembedded.dev/packages/apt$ ls -l ~/OE/downloads/ | wc -l5924 Mar 21 14:51:31 almost 6k Mar 21 14:51:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Kernel]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Input_Method]] Mar 21 14:52:00 15:51 hrw@home:~$ ls devel/sources/dl_dir/|wc -l Mar 21 14:52:00 5991 Mar 21 14:53:26 6,8G devel/sources/ Mar 21 14:57:06 9.3G /home/koen/OE/downloads/ Mar 21 14:57:09 ~lart git Mar 21 14:57:09 * apt strangles git with a 9-pole serial cable Mar 21 14:57:32 buz: /me has no hardware. Mar 21 14:57:59 buz: If you run the power consumption numbers of the various subsystems, it comes to some 20h. Mar 21 14:58:10 thats neat Mar 21 14:58:22 so it actually is usable as a mp3 player Mar 21 14:58:29 some phones aren't really due to poor battery life Mar 21 14:58:53 can mp3 decoding be done in 50mhz mode? Mar 21 14:58:57 No. Mar 21 14:59:02 Well - almost certainly not. Mar 21 14:59:09 SpeedEvil: technically yes Mar 21 14:59:19 not in realtime Mar 21 14:59:22 * SpeedEvil stabs XorA for being pointlessly correct. Mar 21 14:59:35 sub realtime mp3 decoding is kinda useless ;) Mar 21 14:59:41 SpeedEvil: 23% cpu at 200Mhz, that leaves a couple for overhead Mar 21 14:59:44 can you get ogg decoding chips? Mar 21 14:59:53 slow is 12Mhz. Mar 21 14:59:57 yes, you can. Mar 21 15:00:07 i think i read about a 50mhz mode Mar 21 15:00:09 somewhere Mar 21 15:00:10 OGG decoding chips tend to use comparable amounts of power. Mar 21 15:00:41 to the CPU decoding at full rate, for 1/4 of the time, and playing back in slow mode. Mar 21 15:00:54 yeah that is the obvious solution Mar 21 15:01:14 but if you could run the cpu in a mode where it just kept up with mp3 that would probably be even better Mar 21 15:01:22 Maybe. Mar 21 15:01:42 The CPU maker does not provide figures for speeds other than 12Mhz. Mar 21 15:01:46 and 200/266 Mar 21 15:01:59 IIRC, it can't run faster than 40MHz in the 'direct' mode. Mar 21 15:02:04 might have been another cpu then Mar 21 15:02:12 power figures. Mar 21 15:02:22 oh but there are modes like that? Mar 21 15:03:31 No, you need to enable the PLL as I understand it for speeds of over 20, or maybe 40Mhz Mar 21 15:03:37 and the PLL uses lots of power. Mar 21 15:03:43 On reflection, I think it was 20. Mar 21 15:04:08 then again 20h of mp3 playing is more than good enough for me Mar 21 15:05:17 Or was it 40h. Mar 21 15:05:28 Search the wiki for power estimate Mar 21 15:06:15 * jaytee was just there ;-) Mar 21 15:06:35 i'm browsing the wiki right now Mar 21 15:06:47 not sure what the idle mode does though Mar 21 15:07:51 In this mode, FCLK to the CPU core is switched off. This reduces the power consumption to about half the typical 'Normal mode' consumption: 177mW Mar 21 15:08:29 Look at teh bottom Mar 21 15:08:37 why rootfs is mounting as readonly? Mar 21 15:12:14 for anyone thinking of travelling to the UK... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/03/citizen_counter.html Mar 21 15:12:22 "Have you seen someone with large quantities of mobiles?" Mar 21 15:14:00 * hrw has only 2 mobiles Mar 21 15:15:39 "Tip #12: If someone asks you to deliver a trailer to the parking lot underneath a large office building and run away very fast, always check with your supervisor first.)" Mar 21 15:16:04 are these guys for real? Mar 21 15:16:14 * philippe travels with two mobiles and also an openmoko probably... Mar 21 15:17:19 Tip #13: People buying electronic components used to make timers should be reported to the terrorist units." Mar 21 15:17:39 * philippe just wanted to get an a good old 555 Mar 21 15:19:07 for people who do not know the 555 ( http://homepages.westminster.org.uk/electronics/555.htm ) Mar 21 15:19:23 NE555 - universal timer making chip Mar 21 15:20:54 I know that one! Mar 21 15:21:13 I have them at home ;) Mar 21 15:21:39 and a trailer? Mar 21 15:21:45 no Mar 21 15:21:50 xkr47: You terrorist!!! Mar 21 15:21:59 but you can download trailers from the internet, duh! Mar 21 15:22:09 philippe, yeah! Mar 21 15:22:24 philippe, unless I make bistable timers! Mar 21 15:22:49 or astable maybe, I forget Mar 21 15:23:06 xkr47: too hard to understand for people who make those rules... Mar 21 15:23:49 I wonder what happens if someone crams a trailer full of electronic components, cell phones and filled water bottles and then tells someone to go park it in some building's parking lot Mar 21 15:24:11 grrr.. I hate code like this : d0 = Exp_1 | y >> Ebits -k; Mar 21 15:24:59 I know what it does after having to look up the precedence of the operators, but somehow don't think it does what they intended. Mar 21 15:25:28 I guess brackets aren't everybody's friends after all Mar 21 15:26:09 abraxa__: worst is that the compiler actually warns you about crap like this. Mar 21 15:27:25 * xkr47 recalls pin 4 and pin 8 were Vdd, pin 1 was Vcc and pin 5 should be connected to ground through a 100nF capacitor.. in a astable setup pins 2 and 6 are connected togeter, and a resistor is connected between 8 and 7, another one between 7 and 6/ and finally a charging capacitor between 6/2 and pin 1 Mar 21 15:27:32 then pin 3 is the output pin Mar 21 15:28:10 and I think the frequency was 0.707 * r_7_6 / (r_7_6 + r_8_7) * c_6_1 Mar 21 15:28:33 and this I recall from having read the ne555 product sheet 15 years ago ;) Mar 21 15:29:00 xkr47: so when is that bomb of yours going to explode? Mar 21 15:29:08 every 5 seconds Mar 21 15:29:10 :) Mar 21 15:29:14 Too bad this kind of knowledge doesn't get you laid... I'd envy you if that were the case. Mar 21 15:29:34 * philippe waits for the first programmer being jailed for writing a fork-bomb Mar 21 15:29:57 abraxa__, if you make a blinking heart symbol using leds with that, you might have a go :) Mar 21 15:30:23 philippe, it's happened already.. :) Mar 21 15:30:40 philippe, just install a jail environment at your local linux computer and run ssh 1.0 in that jail env :) Mar 21 15:30:50 xkr47: I did not know you had internet access in guatanamo :-) Mar 21 15:30:58 lol Mar 21 15:31:40 : () { :|:& }; : Mar 21 15:31:52 abraxa__: a flashing heart on an openmoko phone might be more successful actually. Mar 21 15:32:00 Har, now try to jail me! :) Mar 21 15:32:14 ~jail TobiX Mar 21 15:32:26 TobiX, will you get lured by accidental password-in-irc pastes ?-) Mar 21 15:33:15 philippe: If that openmoko phone is a gift to some girl then maybe Mar 21 15:33:25 xkr47: Since your are asking that way: Obviously not! Who am I? A dirty cracker? Mar 21 15:34:34 :) Mar 21 15:35:16 Hmm... I re-found my first Linux installation media, let's try to set it up in a VM... Mar 21 15:35:41 TobiX, I have it too.. slackware on diskettes A1-A6, B1-B4, C.. :) Mar 21 15:35:53 there's approximately 3-8 tgz files one each disk :) Mar 21 15:37:31 Oh, floppys... My original DOTT floppies got damaged :( - F***ing magnetic media... Mar 21 15:37:52 But CD-Rs and DVD-/+Rs are even worse... Mar 21 15:38:39 punch-hole tapes ftw Mar 21 15:41:27 thanks for reminding.. I need buy DVD discs for back-up Mar 21 15:44:49 hi Mar 21 15:47:52 IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/openembedded/tree/openembedded/packages/gtk+/gtk+-directfb-2.10.9/./directfb_pixbuf_deprecated_fix.patch' Mar 21 15:47:55 any idea? Mar 21 15:48:29 * mickey|busy mumbles something about the reason why OpenMoko doesn't track .dev Mar 21 15:48:57 this issue is in both OE and openmoko Mar 21 15:49:04 i can hardly believe that Mar 21 15:49:11 since openmoko recommends a certain revision Mar 21 15:49:20 oh...it is head Mar 21 15:49:21 which doesn't has that bug Mar 21 15:49:23 *nod* Mar 21 15:49:26 that's the root of your problem Mar 21 15:49:44 use PREFERRED_PROVIDER_ = "gtk+" Mar 21 15:49:44 mickey|busy: lack of PREV_PROV for gtk? Mar 21 15:49:49 ya Mar 21 15:49:51 probably..i can work around that, but shouldn;t someone fix it ? ;-) Mar 21 15:49:59 use angstrom Mar 21 15:50:20 with one should i use? Mar 21 16:02:51 cu Mar 21 16:07:02 mickey_away: PREFERRED_PROVIDER_gtk+ = "gtk+" ? Mar 21 16:07:41 I have some suggestions for http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#FM.2FDigital_Radio.28DAB.29_Reciever : can also be included MW radio, and if possible make the radio integrated? Mar 21 16:08:17 * florian wants a shortwave receiver Mar 21 16:09:11 there is no more shortwave stations, isn't there? Mar 21 16:09:30 nonickatm: what makes you think that? Mar 21 16:10:58 because here there SW hasn't got any emissor Mar 21 16:12:39 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Hard_Drive omg the most annonying suggestion ever Mar 21 16:12:57 there is line Mar 21 16:12:58 PREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10" Mar 21 16:13:12 so why it tries to install gtk+-2.10.9? Mar 21 16:14:08 someone tried to run openmoko in vmware? Mar 21 16:14:30 I suspect the directfb stuff is guilty - everything seems to default to directfb now (sdl, gtk) and there is no gtk-directfb 2.6.x Mar 21 16:15:00 can't get Xfbdev run in proper resolution Mar 21 16:15:06 ok..so how to force it to doesnt use directfb? Mar 21 16:15:40 DenisBY: should be quite easy if you use a bigger resolution and Xoo - i made the same for G(PE)^2 Mar 21 16:15:54 Magon: how many parse errors did you get? Mar 21 16:16:03 no Mar 21 16:16:35 just errors in compile after not finding patch file Mar 21 16:16:38 florian, no, I'm not using Xoo. I'm just copy rootfs to separete drive and boot from it Mar 21 16:17:20 and Xfbdev just run in 640x480 in 4 colors only Mar 21 16:17:58 DenisBY: set video=788 or something like this in the kernel command line Mar 21 16:18:12 if I define more, for example 8, it complain about memory allocation Mar 21 16:18:43 ok, I'll try Mar 21 16:18:51 i convinced bitbake to use gtk+ :-) Mar 21 16:19:06 srashed again Mar 21 16:25:09 ERROR: log data follows (/opt/openembedded/tree/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/gtk+-2.6.10-r8/temp/log.do_configure.15998) Mar 21 16:25:12 | /opt/openembedded/tree/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/gtk+-2.6.10-r8/temp/run.do_configure.15998: line 314: storcenter-image_do_configure: command not found Mar 21 16:25:17 what is that? Mar 21 16:26:05 Magon: there is something broken with your configuration Mar 21 16:27:20 i did nothing..it works again.... Mar 21 16:29:56 also I can't understand why rootfs is mounting readonly... Mar 21 16:38:47 robtaylor: I had to cancel the upload due to too many aborts / disconnects :\ Mar 21 16:39:19 hi Mar 21 16:48:04 mh, after reading the backlog i'm not the onlÃy one with gtk+ pobs atm? Mar 21 16:52:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 21 16:54:18 DerCorny: i have solved that Mar 21 16:56:45 Magon: how? i think my problem is slightly different, it cant find certain patches Mar 21 16:57:00 IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/corny/moko/openembedded/packages/gtk+/files/./disable-tooltips.patch' Mar 21 16:57:12 it is the same Mar 21 16:57:25 put somewhere this Mar 21 16:57:25 PREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10" Mar 21 16:58:27 where "somewhere" is my local.conf? Mar 21 16:58:40 ie Mar 21 17:01:05 crap, still fails :( Mar 21 17:05:56 * Magon thinks that it is much more easier to build openmoko-devel-image now that before 3 weeks Mar 21 17:06:26 no clue, i started yesterday Mar 21 17:07:17 you have still the same error? Mar 21 17:07:30 you are probably usin mokomakefile, yes? Mar 21 17:07:57 download makefile ; disable brain Mar 21 17:08:37 koen: best thing about it is that it have patch set.... Mar 21 17:11:00 seems like it tries to build an old version of gtk+-directfb Mar 21 17:11:50 it still tries gtk+-directfb ? Mar 21 17:12:20 http://rafb.net/p/J6d0b795.html Mar 21 17:14:09 ok..still problem Mar 21 17:15:47 * koen hints at line 1 and line 2 in that paste Mar 21 17:16:15 and do you have in openmoko.inc PREFERRED_VERSION? Mar 21 17:17:45 * pH5 thinks that's a bitbake bug. if item ("gtk+") itself is in providers_list ("gtk+-directfb","gtk+"), it should default to that. Mar 21 17:18:55 pH5: it is Mar 21 17:19:08 pH5: hrw|gone and I suggested that a while back Mar 21 17:20:00 pH5: hehe Mar 21 17:21:07 Magon: there are a couple of PREFERRED_VERSIONs in there, but none for gtk+ Mar 21 17:22:14 I think just reordering providers_list at that place in taskdata.py could be sufficient. Mar 21 17:22:17 what about line like that Mar 21 17:22:18 PREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10" ? Mar 21 17:24:34 oh noes, it wouldn't. Mar 21 17:25:01 Magon: not in there, added it, still faails. i'll edit taskdata.py now Mar 21 17:31:23 is nonickatm a troll? Mar 21 17:31:23 TF_Void_Ptr: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 21 17:31:31 no Mar 21 17:31:43 why? Mar 21 17:31:46 why do you hate the hd suggestion? Mar 21 17:31:52 seems plausible to me. (I didn't post it, btw) Mar 21 17:32:14 I see it quite useless Mar 21 17:32:20 in essence it makes the device capable of being an integrated media and music player Mar 21 17:32:29 can dump ipod and whatever else Mar 21 17:32:51 you can do the same thing with a hotswappable sd card Mar 21 17:32:59 except sd cards have limited size Mar 21 17:33:13 I'm thinking something like 60gb flash micro-drive type thing Mar 21 17:33:16 u dhe, dont have that file Mar 21 17:33:51 AND in current design of case, the sd card is anything but hot-swappable. ;) Mar 21 17:34:14 koen: hmm. this bug is already fixed in bitbake trunk? Mar 21 17:34:52 pH5: dunno, gtk+ was already built before gtk-directfb was added Mar 21 17:36:30 I think it is. I can't reproduce it here with dummy packages. Mar 21 17:36:55 one more reason to switch to bitbake 1.8 soon. Mar 21 17:37:37 openmoko: 03thomas * r1460 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): Mar 21 17:37:37 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: Add support for icon themes, and assign applications to Mar 21 17:37:37 openmoko: the remaining launchers Mar 21 17:37:57 besides, other problem is size, how do you pretend a 60gb hdd in a mobile phone? it should be enourmus Mar 21 17:38:59 not necessarily Mar 21 17:39:13 seen latest solid state drives? or holographic? Mar 21 17:39:29 nokia n series has got mini hd and those are 4gb ones Mar 21 17:39:37 you will soon (within 2-3 years) be able to store .5tb on something the size of a thumbnail Mar 21 17:40:04 don't underestimate how tiny these things will get before too long Mar 21 17:41:27 what will the connectors look like? Mar 21 17:41:44 <-- doesn't have a crystal ball Mar 21 17:41:58 Magon, DerCorny : as a temporary workaround I removed the directfb bb recipes. Mar 21 17:42:11 philippe: it works for me already :-) Mar 21 17:42:17 I'm just saying having something larger than 2gb for storage of movies and music is desirable. Mar 21 17:42:26 and possible. Mar 21 17:42:35 btw: how do you try openmoko apps? compile for x86, or qemu? Mar 21 17:42:58 x86 over here Mar 21 17:43:06 and xoo? Mar 21 17:43:47 * philippe thinks we should have some MokoSdkMakefile.... Mar 21 17:44:07 Magon, either; native compilation seems the more preferred solution Mar 21 17:44:14 (native for x86) Mar 21 17:44:43 my problem is how to jail it? Mar 21 17:45:41 philippe: hehe, good idea, seems to work Mar 21 17:46:49 DerCorny: dirty and easy. No gtk+-directfb recipes, no provides... :-) Mar 21 17:51:58 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]] Mar 21 17:55:08 sweet, i'm past the gtk+ part. thx everybody Mar 21 18:08:27 k-s[WORK]: did you really mean to link to http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2001-April/016483.html ? Mar 21 18:10:31 * koen hopes that patch was applied 6 years ago Mar 21 18:13:02 http://rafb.net/p/DAASTs32.html *sigh* no luck for me Mar 21 18:13:15 is the makefile not the recommended way to build the image? Mar 21 18:18:19 DerCorny: That depends on who you ask ;) Mar 21 18:21:41 lol Mar 21 18:21:59 CoreDump|home: hey, how big is it? Mar 21 18:25:12 koen: yep Mar 21 18:25:31 koen: evas doesn't operate on 16bpp, but 32bpp Mar 21 18:26:02 koen: showing them people use it since that time may help :-) Mar 21 18:26:06 brb Mar 21 18:26:22 mickeyl: as you might have guessed, k-s[WORK] is working on making evas fast on ARM :) Mar 21 18:27:41 back Mar 21 18:28:44 CM: he, i see you ran into the same bug Mar 21 18:29:11 DerCorny: Was it the perl one? Mar 21 18:29:32 http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1765 (probably, checking the fix atm) Mar 21 18:32:17 in general i found adding BUILD_SYS=i686 and doing the uname trick a necessity to get stuff built on x86_64 Mar 21 18:32:40 doesn't 'linux32' do all that without OE hacks? Mar 21 18:33:15 no idea Mar 21 18:33:19 i don't own such a thing Mar 21 18:33:23 i just happen to build on it Mar 21 18:33:35 it did for me, when I ran OE in 64bit userspace Mar 21 18:33:50 in summer i'm going to use a Mac Pro Mar 21 18:33:56 hopefully we can build natively on that Mar 21 18:34:02 else it would suck a bit Mar 21 18:34:06 mickeyl: we can Mar 21 18:34:08 in parallels *shrugh* Mar 21 18:34:14 we can? good! Mar 21 18:34:23 mickeyl: if you fix bitbake's path escaping Mar 21 18:34:41 will look into that then Mar 21 18:34:56 my FW disk has spaces and ' in its name Mar 21 18:35:12 ah Mar 21 18:35:14 Koen's disk Mar 21 18:35:21 right Mar 21 18:35:24 i remember Mar 21 18:35:30 is there some sort of gps application on the drawing board? is it a project of the core team, or should a project be started? Mar 21 18:35:30 ok, i see what i can do Mar 21 18:35:33 (valid dutch, invalid english) Mar 21 18:35:41 guaqua: maemo-mapper Mar 21 18:35:44 and what is the general state of the gps code? Mar 21 18:36:03 guaqua: a project should definitly started, however i would seriously recommend taking a look at all existing solutions (there are at least 4) and trying to contribute to either one or merge 'em Mar 21 18:36:05 i.e. can you actually get readings from the gps? Mar 21 18:36:14 hmm Mar 21 18:36:15 the state of gps Mar 21 18:36:19 how should i say Mar 21 18:36:21 broken! Mar 21 18:36:25 Buggered! Mar 21 18:36:26 "not yet working" is the official answer Mar 21 18:36:29 Not yet working! Mar 21 18:36:29 harald said to ask again in ~2 weeks Mar 21 18:36:36 "a negotiation nightmare" is the inofficial answer Mar 21 18:36:58 reason i'm asking is because i'm thinking of SoC project relating to it Mar 21 18:37:29 guaqua: proper hildon/gtk/moka abstraction for https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-mapper would be nice Mar 21 18:37:34 moko* Mar 21 18:37:58 negotiation nightmare? Mar 21 18:38:18 Global locate are closed source Mar 21 18:38:24 they have never done open source before. Mar 21 18:38:26 sannes: IPR Mar 21 18:38:34 koen: basically thinking of just porting maemo-mapper to run on openmoko and using libmokoui & friends? Mar 21 18:38:41 will be possible to listen fm radios via wifi and mms://? Mar 21 18:38:52 As a main asset is the way they convert from the raw hardware signals to the final position. Mar 21 18:38:55 guaqua: yes, but in a sane way :) Mar 21 18:38:57 Which is all in software. Mar 21 18:39:22 So it's ending up as a binary plugin to gpsd Mar 21 18:39:57 koen: Intellectual Property? :P Mar 21 18:40:08 in plain english, not a new application, but alternative bindings Mar 21 18:40:10 yep Mar 21 18:40:18 * sannes lols .. Mar 21 18:41:49 so, anyone know what kind of data that they read from the gps? because I bet (no money, they are all going to P[123]) I can make an algorithm to give me a position .. Mar 21 18:42:48 mickeyl, guaqua: worth taking a look at GeoClue, a project that got started at gnome bosten summit Mar 21 18:42:56 sannes: the plan is to make is use gpsd, so you can assume it will give nmea in some way Mar 21 18:43:04 http://live.gnome.org/GeoClue Mar 21 18:43:10 robtaylor: 'bitbake geoclue' :D Mar 21 18:43:20 some guys from garmin were involved... Mar 21 18:43:44 koen: heh :) Mar 21 18:45:31 robtaylor, koen: geoclue actually looks exactly what may people would like to see in openmoko Mar 21 18:45:42 guaqua: yep! Mar 21 18:51:58 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:KayHH]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 21 18:58:00 hi. in the openmoko wiki I read, that the Neo mobile phone will be available at 25th march. is this information still up to date? Mar 21 18:58:00 thomasg_gpm: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 21 18:59:03 counter Mar 21 18:59:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 17:00:56 (12.709 +-7.0 days) (587) Mar 21 18:59:25 u need to wait ;) Mar 21 18:59:44 hehe Mar 21 18:59:47 I want to have it! :) Mar 21 19:00:15 u r not alone :) Mar 21 19:01:30 hopefully it will be available in europe in quantities Mar 21 19:07:53 if the neo is ready, it will be the last of my devices with a open os. :) on my pc, my laptop and my DAP I already use open systems. Mar 21 19:09:00 it's a bit ehm... Mar 21 19:09:06 'unpolished' right now Mar 21 19:09:28 but the development pace is picking up Mar 21 19:10:01 well, its very new. I'd like to support FIC so they can release even better phones in future Mar 21 19:10:01 I'm not expecting to be able to use it as my everyday phone for quite a while Mar 21 19:10:37 CM: my guess is early 2008 Mar 21 19:10:38 hm, I have about 5 sim cards, so it is no problem for me to use it as 2nd, 3rd or 4th mobile phone Mar 21 19:10:50 i'm hoping the python bindings got to be usable and there was an easy way to run openmoko either in virtualized environment or through xoo Mar 21 19:10:52 koen: I'm hoping for christmas ;) Mar 21 19:11:04 I hope that enlightenment DR17 will run on it in future :) Mar 21 19:11:35 thomasg_gpm: it runs on it *right now* Mar 21 19:11:42 really? Mar 21 19:11:42 bitbake e-wm ; ipkg install e-wm Mar 21 19:11:50 cool :) Mar 21 19:12:11 I heard that e17 is not running on Kdrive right now Mar 21 19:12:21 nonsense Mar 21 19:12:27 hm, good to know Mar 21 19:12:31 I've been running it on kdrive for the past year or so Mar 21 19:12:43 kdrive is a normal xserver Mar 21 19:12:53 openmoko: 03zecke * r1461 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (19 files in 3 dirs): Mar 21 19:12:53 openmoko: openmoko-rssreader: Add the RSS Reader as announced on the mailinglist Mar 21 19:12:53 openmoko: This application requires libmrss for feed reading. The application Mar 21 19:12:53 openmoko: will eventually hang or segfault if you have at-spi running in your Mar 21 19:12:53 openmoko: desktop as ATK/Gail/Orbit is not thread safe. Mar 21 19:12:58 koen: yeah :) Mar 21 19:13:00 yay Mar 21 19:13:05 do you own a phase0 device koen? Mar 21 19:13:11 zecke: what about the python bindings? Mar 21 19:13:16 thomasg_gpm: yes Mar 21 19:13:22 pH5: hehe, I just wanted to say something Mar 21 19:13:33 pH5: bindings will go gforge once fixed Mar 21 19:13:48 pH5: I think I have talked mickeyl into using svn:external for integrating projects from gforge Mar 21 19:13:51 how fast is the device? and is there a good video showing some apps or something like this? I only know the video which shows the basic call function Mar 21 19:14:15 zecke: great! Mar 21 19:14:35 pH5: this allows easy ACL and more people contributing Mar 21 19:14:40 anyway, I will get some food now Mar 21 19:14:47 bbl Mar 21 19:15:54 hello mikesh Mar 21 19:15:56 :P Mar 21 19:16:07 counter Mar 21 19:16:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 16:43:52 (12.697 +-7.0 days) (588) Mar 21 19:16:09 hi LuitvD Mar 21 19:16:34 stop that counter! :) Mar 21 19:17:06 WHY?? Mar 21 19:17:11 double the speed Mar 21 19:17:13 not stop Mar 21 19:17:16 hehe, ok :) Mar 21 19:17:27 btw. koen, a screenshot/photo of the Neo with e17 would be great ;) Mar 21 19:17:30 actually waiting for P1+, not P1 Mar 21 19:18:10 thomasg_gpm: it would, but I like the phone to be useable as a phone ;) Mar 21 19:18:40 or for a response from e28 Mar 21 19:18:43 Has anyone spoken with Sean about the availability of P1 phones? Are they on schedule? Mar 21 19:20:15 you guys are much too stressed about dates. it will be there when its done and working. we don't want any buggy hardware for the price of a few days Mar 21 19:22:34 Except that today I'm writing a development plan... Kinda tough to do development without a platform. Mar 21 19:23:27 DukeOfURL: depends on the kind of development Mar 21 19:23:36 Uh, software Mar 21 19:23:57 <_llll_> cant you use qemu for the software stuff? Mar 21 19:24:01 Also writing a marketing plan. Kinda tough to execute without a product. Mar 21 19:26:13 _llll_ you can actually.. but its note done yet Mar 21 19:26:42 My marketing window is starting to close (competition). Should I be looking at Motorola EZX or wait for Neo? Mar 21 19:27:32 DukeOfURL that depends on your timeframes and your requirements on hardware/software Mar 21 19:29:09 I'd like to begin marketing in the 4th quarter. For hardware I need GSM/GPRS, AGPS, and Linux with VGA display. Mar 21 19:30:57 If the Neo is slipping for, say, six months then I'll need another platform. What other platforms will run external apps? Mar 21 19:33:39 does the EZX have gps? afaik it only has 320x200 or so as displayresolution Mar 21 19:34:02 the european a780 has gps Mar 21 19:34:09 but as you say, qvga Mar 21 19:35:17 DukeOfURL 4th quarter should be fine when you develop the software before the mass-production runs fully Mar 21 19:37:05 as far as i'm informed the P1 devices which we all await should be hw-bug free (at least of all bugs we currently know of) so they are the primary test-targets for app-development from my view (p0 is more system-level development) Mar 21 19:37:18 does the openmoko draw less energy when using a lower resolution on the display ? Mar 21 19:37:26 xkr47: yes Mar 21 19:37:29 unless it's buggy Mar 21 19:37:43 RAM takes a fair bit of power. Mar 21 19:37:44 * xkr47 wonders if some screensaver could Mar 21 19:37:48 lol, less processing power should ensure less use of power... Mar 21 19:37:52 säp Mar 21 19:38:00 säp? Mar 21 19:38:07 and 640*640*16*60Hz uses a lot of RAM bandwidth Mar 21 19:38:18 säp == oops :) Mar 21 19:38:24 60Hz refresh rate? really? Mar 21 19:38:25 among my friends :) Mar 21 19:38:52 wow, I need irc in my shower, too. Mar 21 19:39:08 heheh Mar 21 19:39:33 hoho Mar 21 19:40:14 interresting question.. how much power we can save there.. but i'm afraid you can save much more by just dimming the display brightness a bit Mar 21 19:40:16 lpksofkogusapifiusDA Mar 21 19:40:29 It may be a fair bit. Mar 21 19:40:50 For example, IIRC I get 10% of extra battery life on my PII/300 notebook in X in 4 bit mode than 24. Mar 21 19:41:20 and a bloody ugly bit of graphics Mar 21 19:42:43 pH5, you just need a water-resistant openmoko, that's all Mar 21 19:42:44 :) Mar 21 19:43:40 OpenEZX doesn't look to be that far along. Mar 21 19:52:58 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] Mar 21 19:53:32 Yuhú :) Mar 21 19:53:56 counter Mar 21 19:53:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 16:06:03 (12.671 +-7.0 days) (589) Mar 21 19:58:34 Anybody will go to fostel? Mar 21 20:07:55 what do you guys think about gpsd? Mar 21 20:09:11 specifically this: http://gpsd.berlios.de/ Mar 21 20:11:02 at moment preordering is not possible, correct? Mar 21 20:11:54 correct Mar 21 20:18:15 the gps will be based on gpsd Mar 21 20:18:19 with a binary plugin Mar 21 20:18:50 okay Mar 21 20:23:35 have you folks looked into geoclue btw? Mar 21 20:23:48 http://live.gnome.org/GeoClue Mar 21 20:23:59 tigert: yes, it doesn't compile at the moment Mar 21 20:24:03 its sorta preliminary thingy but I think we need a location framework Mar 21 20:24:09 koen: duh, so keith broke it Mar 21 20:24:10 duh Mar 21 20:24:26 gps is no good indoors Mar 21 20:25:51 tigert: wait for sift7 ;) Mar 21 20:25:57 koen: it builds okay for me Mar 21 20:26:29 but the idea is to build a framework for all things geolocative Mar 21 20:26:55 tigert: did you see the slashdot story about the wifi db? Mar 21 20:26:59 ie, "I am in N 60° 10' 32''E 24° 56' 3''" - what city is this?" Mar 21 20:27:16 koen: no, but I heard there were some things Mar 21 20:27:24 there is of course plazes.com too which is nice Mar 21 20:27:35 GPS used to be no good indoors. Mar 21 20:27:39 It now depends. Mar 21 20:27:42 yeah Mar 21 20:27:52 but wlan is one good way to locate you Mar 21 20:28:07 My GPS12 (ancient garmin unit) is 10dB less sensitive than the one on the neo. Mar 21 20:28:10 thus geoclue's idea is to have many backends so one of them at least should tell you some idea where you are Mar 21 20:28:13 do we have a working gpsd for neo yet? Mar 21 20:28:18 which would make it dolid location inside. Mar 21 20:28:21 s/dol/sol/ Mar 21 20:28:21 SpeedEvil meant: which would make it solid location inside. Mar 21 20:28:24 CoreDump|home; no Mar 21 20:28:30 (inside here at least) Mar 21 20:28:30 to bad Mar 21 20:28:40 tigert: http://rafb.net/p/pUtD1271.html Mar 21 20:28:44 it depends on your idea of "inside" too Mar 21 20:28:48 Well - 'we' being the community that is - global locate may or may not. Mar 21 20:28:50 some buildings block more than others Mar 21 20:28:53 tigert: could be the usual gspd is broken thingy Mar 21 20:28:54 inside my house. Mar 21 20:29:05 It will not work inside many large buildings. Mar 21 20:29:40 koen: oh, I built on x86, hmm Mar 21 20:30:21 SpeedEvil: yeah, where many people work Mar 21 20:30:29 where the location service would be useful Mar 21 20:30:35 thus, the idea to start geoclue Mar 21 20:30:54 the idea was to have one dbus service to ask for where you are Mar 21 20:31:04 and it'd try to give you the best guess it has Mar 21 20:32:25 wireless networking isn't really great either. Mar 21 20:32:31 The signal varies horribly. Mar 21 20:32:40 Even without taking into account body position. Mar 21 20:33:15 and for a phone, you're going to see a factor of several differnence depending on body and phone orientation. Mar 21 20:33:28 tigert: could you convince the geoclue people to drop the gnomepanel dep? Mar 21 20:33:43 tigert: gnomepanel pulls in half of gnome Mar 21 20:33:56 and orbit, which we loathe and replaced with dbus for most stuff Mar 21 20:34:50 koen: oh, its the panel applet Mar 21 20:34:56 koen: I guess one could make it optional Mar 21 20:34:57 right Mar 21 20:35:05 will mail keith Mar 21 20:35:28 thanks Mar 21 20:35:58 (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte Re: FeedReader for OpenMoko Mar 21 20:36:39 SpeedEvil: I was part of a indoor mapping project using the wifi accesspoint strenght to triangulate a location. Bad thing is we had to build a map for it by walking around each floor and storing reference points. Mar 21 20:36:54 At the uni that is.. Mar 21 20:37:29 CM: in MIT? Mar 21 20:37:31 I read about this Mar 21 20:37:49 koen, CM, others btw: we have #geoclue in gimpnet (irc.gimp.org) if you are interested Mar 21 20:38:09 the idea is to make this framework something useful for many of us Mar 21 20:38:17 tigert: Naaa, was Umeå university in my home town, 4 years ago or so Mar 21 20:38:21 CM: yeah - for a phone, you've got the whole body interaction thing. Mar 21 20:38:22 CM: ok Mar 21 20:38:26 MIT had something similar Mar 21 20:38:26 Which sucks. Mar 21 20:38:37 Yes, they did :) Mar 21 20:39:58 CM: results? What were you surveying with? Mar 21 20:41:15 SpeedEvil: We just used a standard orinocco wifi card and polled the signal strength from all accesspoints we could reach. Wrote all code ourselves Mar 21 20:41:31 * CM looks around in the old university code Mar 21 20:42:18 tigert: I know about #geoclue, trying to cut down of the number of irc channels I'm in Mar 21 20:43:26 yeah :P Mar 21 20:43:48 I have 79 windows in irssi (most of old queries though) Mar 21 20:43:52 I know what you mean Mar 21 20:44:03 urgh Mar 21 20:44:09 i don't even know how to use that many Mar 21 20:44:36 yea, I just clean up when I get over some annoyance threshold Mar 21 20:47:56 Why in the buying list appears people comments about 8 GB+ Storage :? There are some new improvement? Mar 21 20:48:13 I think perhaps confusion. Mar 21 20:48:37 There was mention of 1GB upgrade to the NAND in P1+ Mar 21 20:48:50 This was 1 gigabit Mar 21 20:48:51 SpeedEvil: Heh, I just read our old report.. It's in swedish :P Mar 21 20:49:49 1. Aloril With Multi-touch and 8GB+ Storge]] Mar 21 20:50:03 8. KayHH With Multi-touch and 8 GB+ Storage Mar 21 20:51:03 * SpeedEvil wonders if they are just being silly. Mar 21 20:52:08 xD Mar 21 20:52:58 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Phase_0]] Mar 21 21:03:33 has someone already been thinking of the olpc mesh and how to implement it on openmoko? :) Mar 21 21:03:37 SpeedEvil: probably a hint at the iphone Mar 21 21:03:51 guaqua: kinda hard without wifi Mar 21 21:03:53 8 GB+ :D Mar 21 21:03:59 that plus :D Mar 21 21:04:15 koen: wifi is going to happen one day Mar 21 21:04:37 sure Mar 21 21:04:52 * koen like UWB better Mar 21 21:04:53 I finished building the OpenMoko image and would like to build an automake-based program using the build environment that was used for the OpenMoko image as well - namely the one in build/tmp/rootfs. Can anyone give me a hint how I can do this? I tried various approaches but none worked unfortuantely. Mar 21 21:05:02 there is so much potential in this. i just wish the foundation got ready :) Mar 21 21:05:03 less range, but lower power and more bandwidth Mar 21 21:05:10 guaqua: the only driver that supports that is libertas, for the marvell 8388 chipset. Mar 21 21:05:30 it could possibly be implemented in other Free drivers for softmac cards Mar 21 21:05:32 abraxa__: write a recipe and bitbake it Mar 21 21:05:36 koen: true true. wifi is the standard anyway Mar 21 21:05:55 orospakr: so there is hope? (i know nothing about these things) Mar 21 21:06:28 they are meeting with wifi vendors this week I heard Mar 21 21:06:29 guaqua: depends on the chipset the FIC guys choose! Mar 21 21:06:48 orospakr: okay :) Mar 21 21:07:08 koen: I thought there had been a common method for this like giving the configure script some neat param - but thanks, I'll try that then Mar 21 21:07:50 you can do olpc meshing with any chip, you'd just consume more power by doing routing in the CPU instead of wifichip Mar 21 21:08:55 I think this could be an idea for the Neo: http://javierperez.eu/bloqueo-y-desbloqueo-de-pantalla-por-detector-de-presencia-en-ubuntu-con-bluetooth-aimtooth/ Mar 21 21:08:59 speech synthesizer stuff again: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ Mar 21 21:09:36 hm Mar 21 21:09:43 * tigert wonders how much better than flite this is? Mar 21 21:10:16 tigert: i actually asked a blind person, and he gave me this one :) Mar 21 21:10:43 it sounds quite much like flite judging from the sample ogg Mar 21 21:10:52 this isn't supposed to sound as natural as flite, but he said this is easier to listen to for a longer time Mar 21 21:11:08 i didn't listen to it yet Mar 21 21:12:10 it sounded quite artificial though Mar 21 21:12:27 there are pretty amazing commercial ones too Mar 21 21:12:36 i can't make anything out of the sample on the website Mar 21 21:13:28 mickeyl: could we switch to a different sf.net mirror to make dejavu fetchable? Mar 21 21:15:19 like you need UWB bandwidth on neo Mar 21 21:15:28 for what, streaming 1080p video? Mar 21 21:15:35 MPEG2 encoded, no less Mar 21 21:17:44 raw mped :> Mar 21 21:18:15 640k is enough for everyone! Mar 21 21:18:42 there are going to be 4 to 5 computers in the world in 2000 Mar 21 21:19:30 stuffing UWB into neo is like putting 8mb ram into a PC XT Mar 21 21:20:17 it will give you WiNet and WiUSB Mar 21 21:20:19 I am wondering if will be possible listen radio via gprs / wifi Mar 21 21:20:39 it will be Mar 21 21:20:40 WiNet without access points is mostly useless Mar 21 21:20:52 gprs is enough for radio stream. mostly Mar 21 21:20:53 gprs: not really, wifi when it comes definitely Mar 21 21:21:02 bluetooth too Mar 21 21:21:08 not good quality over gprs though Mar 21 21:21:16 32kbit yes Mar 21 21:21:59 if you're really lucky 56 Mar 21 21:22:12 i've listened to virgin radio stream on my nokia 6600 Mar 21 21:22:26 i'd prefer FM to 56kbit mp3 myself Mar 21 21:22:27 it has to buffer from time to time, so it's not very usable Mar 21 21:23:18 what about the rumours of faster GSM for P1.5? Mar 21 21:23:35 * nibbler_de listens to radiofg's 128k stream on his E70 - works like a charm Mar 21 21:23:36 EDGE would be more than enough for IP radio Mar 21 21:23:51 nibbler_de: your e70 is a umts phone ;) Mar 21 21:24:01 looks like i have to wait for the next moko in deed, yeah Mar 21 21:24:13 edge would be ideal Mar 21 21:24:15 no umts really is somewhat of a showstopper Mar 21 21:24:21 not for me Mar 21 21:24:23 there's no real addition from umts in my book Mar 21 21:24:37 i dont really see the use case for UMTS Mar 21 21:24:39 guaqua: what do you mean by that? Mar 21 21:24:46 EDGE, sure Mar 21 21:24:50 buz: streaming video? less latency? Mar 21 21:24:56 but watching streaming video on 2.8"??? Mar 21 21:24:59 at the moment you can't play video well Mar 21 21:25:11 besides, UMTS doesnt necessarily have less latency Mar 21 21:25:12 there's no decoding chip etc Mar 21 21:25:17 some reports say quite the oppposite Mar 21 21:25:46 i wouldn't object to umts, off course Mar 21 21:25:57 truth to be told, i dont care for video on 2,8" Mar 21 21:26:11 buz: i've been using various umts and gprs equipment for some years now - in almost all cases umts has less jitter and less latency Mar 21 21:26:18 heck i consider 32" tv to be too small (TM) Mar 21 21:26:57 next tv i buy must be at the very least 40" Mar 21 21:27:23 the question is... what resolution ;) Mar 21 21:27:55 they still sell TVs over here that don't do at least 720p on >20" Mar 21 21:28:13 for most tv, 720p is good enough Mar 21 21:28:23 at 40" there would be just one reasonable resolution: 1080p Mar 21 21:28:25 once you come into 50" territory 1080p is ok Mar 21 21:28:36 (actually, my beamer currently does about 70" at SVGA) Mar 21 21:28:44 still beats the shit out of 95% tv outthere Mar 21 21:29:02 svga really isn't acceptable >12" ;) Mar 21 21:29:15 for computers, SVGA is NEVER acceptable ;) Mar 21 21:29:36 but considering that HDTV content is still rare, the SVGA beamer does good enough for now Mar 21 21:29:37 even for movies etc. Mar 21 21:30:04 (for political reasons i cant get sat tv, so hdtv is out for now) Mar 21 21:30:24 then again - i really enjoy watching stuff like family guy on my k800i or E70 Mar 21 21:30:29 but not at home ;) Mar 21 21:30:42 buz: you have internet, right? why bother sat tv then? ;) Mar 21 21:31:23 * buz will wait for the 50" 6000:1 full hd lcds for 700EUR Mar 21 21:31:40 10 years? ;) Mar 21 21:31:41 until then, the beamer+crt tv will do fine ;) Mar 21 21:31:56 i'd expect about 2 Mar 21 21:32:22 50" 720p should be there in short time ;) Mar 21 21:32:45 * CM is very happy with 42" 720p plasma Mar 21 21:33:38 plasma still suffers of burn in Mar 21 21:33:57 not as badly as a few years ago, but still Mar 21 21:38:24 * buz scratches head about adobe's flash licence Mar 21 21:45:16 Is there anybody, who can tell me, how can i get neo from budapest? Mar 21 21:45:55 just a question, actually:/ Mar 21 21:46:06 you can't, at the moment Mar 21 21:46:41 can anybody tell me how I can make sure all the openmoko programs get build? Mar 21 21:46:57 I tried adapting the tasks, but it seems to ignore my changes. Mar 21 21:47:03 interesting. is the gpsd really closed source? Mar 21 21:48:09 mitsuhiko: just the plugin talking to the gps chip i believe Mar 21 22:10:17 counter Mar 21 22:10:17 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 13:49:42 (12.576 +-7.0 days) (590) Mar 21 22:10:33 mitsu yes Mar 21 22:13:07 Aha found out why... patching file trunk/oe/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb ...in mokomakefile... Mar 21 22:32:51 philippe: already having headache with new toy? :) Mar 21 22:41:35 hmm the moko theme is slow over remote X... Mar 21 22:42:10 * zecke should propose an alternative GSoc project and write a lean and mean style engine... Mar 21 22:43:46 Google DXPC Mar 21 22:43:52 differential X protocol compressor. Mar 21 22:43:55 Works fairly well. Mar 21 22:44:26 SpeedEvil: well, it looks like the moko theme is uploading all images into the server... Mar 21 22:44:37 oh - it generally does that (X) Mar 21 22:44:48 which is slow, as for cairo it is likely that these images are downloaded again :) Mar 21 22:45:00 ~seen cworth Mar 21 22:45:44 cworth was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 7d 5h 49m 23s ago, saying: 'apaulsen: Would it be better to just get newer gconf into OE ?'. Mar 21 22:45:58 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Calculator for OpenMoko Mar 21 22:46:37 apropos X, how Do I get a non US keyboard layout with Xephyr? Mar 21 22:50:12 morning Mar 21 22:50:23 cheers rod Mar 21 22:51:51 mickeyl: hi :) Mar 21 22:51:51 hey mickeyl - did an OpenMoko talk at the Linux SA users group the other night. Mar 21 22:52:06 did a demo of a GSM call of course :-) Mar 21 22:52:12 :) Mar 21 22:53:20 mickeyl: I never heard back from Sean :( Mar 21 22:53:30 hi high-rez Mar 21 22:53:32 sorry bout that Mar 21 22:53:33 this man is so overloaded it's crazy. Once all the most pressuring hardware issues are sorted out (two or three weeks from now), things should calm down and he will be more open to anything else Mar 21 22:53:54 same here ,btw. Mar 21 22:53:58 working on two projects atm. Mar 21 22:54:01 bad timing Mar 21 22:54:10 ~lart mickey for prematurely signing contracts Mar 21 22:54:10 The 800lbs gorilla wants his attention. Mar 21 22:54:11 * apt holds mickey to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails for prematurely signing contracts Mar 21 22:54:35 mickeyl: make sabine start hacking! Mar 21 22:54:43 zecke: hehe, yeah Mar 21 22:54:48 actually she once hacked Mar 21 22:54:49 mickeyl: she should be more capable than both of us Mar 21 22:54:57 oh she would be, but she absolutely hates it Mar 21 22:55:06 she was hacking crypto libraries for about 1 year Mar 21 22:55:10 and boy she really really loathed it Mar 21 22:55:50 the fun part was that we actually had some cool discussions Mar 21 22:55:58 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: FeedReader for OpenMoko Mar 21 22:55:58 gcc, -ldl and stuff Mar 21 22:56:46 that script is nice Mar 21 22:58:39 ~hail mickeyl for not crumbling under the pressure Mar 21 22:58:44 mickeyl: now that my LUG demo is over, I can finally switch the Neo to the latest builds :-) Mar 21 22:58:48 * apt bows down to mickeyl for not crumbling under the pressure and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Mar 21 22:58:54 :)) Mar 21 22:59:21 rwhitby: how was your talk received? Mar 21 22:59:33 very well - were about 30 or so people there. Mar 21 22:59:41 mickeyl: I hate autosize of GtkTreeView Mar 21 22:59:55 mickeyl: either I hardcode for VGA, or I subclass GtkTreeView :} Mar 21 23:00:00 zecke: me too, can we override that somehow in MokoTreeView ? Mar 21 23:00:09 we had a projector for the ssh session, and a video camera showing the neo screen. Mar 21 23:00:19 slick Mar 21 23:00:32 and you used the dialer to call? Mar 21 23:00:38 and then the neo got passed around so everyone could feel the alien technology of the case. Mar 21 23:00:38 mickeyl: yes, I'm searching for something like a QResizeEvent Mar 21 23:00:50 no, I was using Phase0 software. Mar 21 23:01:06 counter Mar 21 23:01:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 12:58:53 (12.541 +-7.0 days) (591) Mar 21 23:01:12 Yuck. apt has a cat-o-nine-tails? Mar 21 23:01:21 (cause the day before the demo I flashed latest, and gsmd hung, so I backed out back to something I knew worked - cmdline gsm Mar 21 23:01:38 high-rez - BTW: I also got no answer from Sean on my last mail to him. ;) Mar 21 23:01:56 * philippe can finally start experimenting. Got my neo today. Mar 21 23:01:59 please bear with Sean, he really gets about 500 mails per da Mar 21 23:02:00 y Mar 21 23:02:11 a number of people got to play with the neo at pizza afterwards too - all people thought it was cheap at USD$350. Mar 21 23:02:18 atm. due to the guys visiting Taiwan hardware engineering all is very busy Mar 21 23:02:20 Now I can do something more than just some bugzilla work Mar 21 23:02:26 Elrond: I was really hoping to introduce to our future technologies group. Mar 21 23:02:50 rwhitby: i agree. it's really a good price -- even if the SoC is so slow Mar 21 23:03:03 P1+ hw will even improve the price/performance ratio Mar 21 23:03:24 mickeyl: I presume sean has factored in the hw upgrade pricing into the $350, so the $350 won't change for P1+ or even P2 perhaps. Mar 21 23:03:47 no idea actually Mar 21 23:03:56 pricing and marketing is outside my department ;) Mar 21 23:04:04 but you could be right Mar 21 23:04:10 it shouldn't get more costly Mar 21 23:04:17 yeah, pricing usually has no correlation to actual hardware cost in *any* company :-) Mar 21 23:04:48 * zecke just found pango_parse_markup Mar 21 23:05:21 yeah Mar 21 23:05:30 the BOM's are actually well kept secrets Mar 21 23:05:39 Does that mean, that P1 hw will get cheaper or just "run out"? Mar 21 23:05:59 Elrond: no one here would be able to answer that, even if they did know. Mar 21 23:06:31 rwhitby - hehe, some speculations and rumours would also work. ;) Mar 21 23:06:58 if i learned one thing during all these years, it's not holding off a purchase due to future stuff. even if that meant that sometimes i was irritated. but most of the times i bought when i actually had use for the device, and so it was ok ;) Mar 21 23:07:59 Well, "use"... I don't _need_ a phone. ;) Mar 21 23:08:13 development fun is also a use ;) Mar 21 23:08:17 So I can purchase the neo whenever I feel like it. Mar 21 23:08:20 hm.. i can never find my way from the wiki to the page that list all the dates for P0 P1 P1+ P2 etc.. Mar 21 23:08:20 yep, you either buy something *now* according to features you can hold in your hand today, or you wait forever. Mar 21 23:08:47 I just wish the Neo had 850/1900/2100mhz wcmda. Mar 21 23:08:47 rwhitby - Hey, I already wait for months for the neo ;o) Mar 21 23:08:59 * high-rez ducks Mar 21 23:09:00 rwhitby: I'm holding back any purchase and waits for slug's with quad core ARM core :) Mar 21 23:09:19 zecke: hehe Mar 21 23:10:03 And holding back a purchase of a costly garmin gps. ;) Mar 21 23:10:09 rwhitby: two core's for one USB slot :) Mar 21 23:10:30 * zecke feel's joy and ping's his slug Mar 21 23:10:51 mickeyl: So what's the long term plan? Do you guys expect to have resellers subsidize the device and resell, or are you going just after direct-consumer sales? Mar 21 23:11:55 hehe, that question is probably on the same "secret"-level as mine. ;) Mar 21 23:12:27 Alternatively, FIC / Openmoko Inc. doesn't even know it themselves ;o)) Mar 21 23:13:09 high-rez: sorry, marketing is out of my scope Mar 21 23:13:28 mickeyl: and I bet you want to keep it that way too :-) Mar 21 23:13:34 yeah!!! Mar 21 23:13:39 :) Mar 21 23:13:59 it's hard enough for me as a technician sometimes having to argue about why the world needs an open phone Mar 21 23:14:05 Outside of the US, GSM awareness is such that a good percentage of the population buys their device seperate from their plan, anyways. The US market, however, is pretty much driven by teh carriers (although that's changing, i see a lot of devices we don't sell using our systems). Mar 21 23:14:10 where can i buy the Neo1973 kaufen. Mar 21 23:15:45 morpheus - a) buy and kaufen are the same verb ;o) b) See FAQ Mar 21 23:15:46 faq? Mar 21 23:15:47 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Mar 21 23:16:24 Elrond: :-) I know -> copy paste ;-) **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 21 23:22:38 2007 Mar 21 23:26:00 off to sleep. Night all Mar 21 23:26:16 Does the new charger include an usb-host-chip or what?! ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Phase_0#Solution_5 ) Mar 21 23:27:57 g'night philippe Mar 21 23:28:40 no Mar 21 23:28:46 this is about usb-gadget Mar 21 23:28:53 or rather usb low level protocol Mar 21 23:29:00 to negotiate charging current Mar 21 23:29:20 mickeyl: Gtk+ is not as evil as Windows Mobile work :} Mar 21 23:29:30 hrh Mar 21 23:29:33 if you say so :D Mar 21 23:29:38 that makes me even less motivated to look at WM Mar 21 23:29:47 thank god i have enough jobs that i don't need to Mar 21 23:29:56 mickey: Do you get the digital gsm/fr/hr/arm stream to/from the radio chip, or are you using a DAC to sample the audio for call recording etc? Mar 21 23:30:20 mickeyl - That usually works via "SET_CONFIGURATION". which implies, that the charger can talk that?! Mar 21 23:30:39 high-rez: TI calypso is connected via analog lines Mar 21 23:30:47 so if you want to record, you need to AD Mar 21 23:30:51 on the host processor Mar 21 23:31:21 Elrond: hmm sorry, that's way beyond my depth. please ask LaF0rge when he's back from .tw Mar 21 23:31:22 s/host processor/WM* audio codec, then postprocess digital on host cpu/ Mar 21 23:31:34 mickeyl - Okay. Mar 21 23:33:45 mickeyl: Can't wait to get asterisk working on it. :D Mar 21 23:33:54 *G* Mar 21 23:40:48 openmoko: 03mickey * r1462 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (13 files in 2 dirs): Mar 21 23:40:48 openmoko: openmoko-panel-gsm: add non-GPRS signal strength images and use them Mar 21 23:40:48 openmoko: NOTE: The GPRS signal strength images are only to be used when a data connection is active Mar 21 23:40:48 openmoko: NOTE2: _please_ watch your svn:executable properties **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 21 23:43:25 2007 Mar 21 23:45:34 Night people. :) Mar 21 23:45:41 n8 Mar 21 23:52:58 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 22 00:11:27 hi Mar 22 00:11:58 openmoko: 03mickey * r1463 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/data/Makefile.am: openmoko-panel-gsm: remove bogus stuff Mar 22 00:13:23 ??? O-o Mar 22 00:13:23 mewshi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 22 00:14:01 openmoko: 03mickey * r1464 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-usb/ (15 files in 3 dirs): openmoko-panel-usb: add skeleton Mar 22 00:14:55 openmoko: 03mickey * r1465 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-bt/ (16 files in 3 dirs): openmoko-panel-bt: add skeleton Mar 22 00:17:11 hi there :\ Mar 22 00:17:33 CIA-16 isn't particularly social. Mar 22 00:18:04 openmoko: 03mickey * r1466 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gps/ (15 files in 3 dirs): openmoko-panel-gps: add skeleton Mar 22 00:18:32 so... anyway Mar 22 00:18:34 how is everyone? Mar 22 00:18:45 mapping. Mar 22 00:18:57 shortly before bed Mar 22 00:19:03 just adding a couple of skeletons Mar 22 00:19:14 skeletons? O-o Mar 22 00:21:13 openmoko: 03mickey * r1467 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/devel/qmake/openmoko-include.pro: qmake: no longer need libmb Mar 22 00:23:14 what's a skeleton? Mar 22 00:24:09 a bunch of files to get a new applet or program build, but without functionality Mar 22 00:25:09 openmoko: 03mickey * r1468 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/ (11 files in 10 dirs): openmoko panel-plugins: misc. cleanups Mar 22 00:25:31 ?? Mar 22 00:25:33 ok :\ Mar 22 00:25:45 so, anyway, this was on slashdot, right? Mar 22 00:26:17 occasionally Mar 22 00:26:26 It hasn't really been slashdotted in a major way yet. Mar 22 00:27:09 wait for the channel userlist to double, and the intelligence to halve :) Mar 22 00:27:55 That would imply that /. users have exactly 0 IQ. Mar 22 00:29:10 SpeedEvil: isn't that a well-known fact? Mar 22 00:29:31 * SpeedEvil reads /. occasionally. Mar 22 00:29:39 yeah, but you're in the noise :-) Mar 22 00:29:41 do you comment on it? Mar 22 00:29:44 yes. Mar 22 00:29:52 Generally positive ratings. Mar 22 00:30:05 * greghunt boggles Mar 22 00:30:17 I tend to try to comment on things that are contrary to physical reality. Mar 22 00:30:22 have you had your iq checked before and after? Mar 22 00:30:40 /. hasn't hurt me. Mar 22 00:30:56 I notice that *chan has _really_ hurt my spelling. Mar 22 00:31:14 Well - occasionally. I tend to lapse into phonetic spelling. Mar 22 00:33:13 openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1469 10/trunk/oe/packages/ipkg/files/is-processing.patch: Fix "Size" field missing while installing local ipk file. Mar 22 00:38:03 openmoko: 03mickey * r1470 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/libmokoui.pro: openmoko-libs: yank libmb dependency Mar 22 00:41:26 g'night folks Mar 22 00:41:33 mickeyl: is OM forking ipkg? Mar 22 00:41:46 no, we submit patches Mar 22 00:42:06 ok, so a temporary svn overlay - no probs. Mar 22 01:04:18 openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1471 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/Makefile.am: Change the matchbox to openmoko Mar 22 01:04:40 openmoko: 03zecke * r1472 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/src/main.c: Mar 22 01:04:40 openmoko: openmoko-rssreader: At least stop the TreeView columns from growing Mar 22 01:04:40 openmoko: Give 1/2 of the space to Subject and the other to the Date. Normally Mar 22 01:04:40 openmoko: one would give more space to the subject and less to the date but this Mar 22 01:04:41 openmoko: is not as easy. Mar 22 01:12:45 openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r1473 10/developers/sean_chiang/gsm/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mar 22 01:31:13 oooh - zecke with OM svn access :-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 22 02:59:58 2007