**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 27 02:59:56 2007 Mar 27 03:51:53 aloril: help Mar 27 03:51:57 * cw666 wonders Mar 27 03:53:04 aloril is only semi-bot Mar 27 04:07:56 hmm... Mar 27 04:11:57 help Mar 27 04:11:57 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) Mar 27 04:16:10 (prefixing with aloril: works too usual) Mar 27 05:20:22 hi, the initial compilation of the openmoko development image is done Mar 27 05:20:36 can anyone please let me know how can i add my applications to openmoko ? Mar 27 05:59:02 Hi ppl! Mar 27 05:59:03 counter Mar 27 05:59:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 06:00:56 (10.251 +-7.0 days) (642) Mar 27 05:59:32 hi Mar 27 06:21:07 Good morning to all in eastern hemisphere and good "don't know what" to others. Mar 27 06:21:24 good afternoon Mar 27 06:23:23 japan? Mar 27 06:24:08 its always "good morning" when you join Mar 27 06:24:39 Singapore ! Mar 27 06:25:13 tigert: join in a channel or converstation ? Mar 27 06:25:54 ohooho in singapore you hade 1G internet plan. Mar 27 06:27:09 tigert, it always good, but morning? Mar 27 06:29:04 1G internet plan through mobile ? Mar 27 06:29:07 funny, I'v forgotten to unmount /dev from rootfs & night build failed. have to rebuild now Mar 27 06:29:26 sumasuma, no Ethernet Mar 27 06:29:53 Any_Key: yes, they have all funny plans over here ! Mar 27 06:30:16 OMG I'v imagined 1G plan trough mobile! Mar 27 06:30:36 ~ugt Mar 27 06:30:38 from memory, ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Mar 27 06:31:03 1G plan yes available, don't know what to do with that ! :( Mar 27 06:31:03 So morning everyone ;) Mar 27 06:31:29 morning Mar 27 06:31:53 sumasuma, I dunno filesharing? Mar 27 06:33:16 Any_Key: Doing file sharing for the past 4 years, with open source to someextent is good. How does that benefit me? Mar 27 06:33:22 sumasuma, wait to Internet sites to open before you clicked on link? Mar 27 06:34:19 Any_Key: for the speed which we browse 512kbps is too high. May be movies acceptable, but the connections on the server end is not as much as the speed we have Mar 27 06:35:25 I use videophone still full BW is not used, let us change our discussion to openmoko :) Mar 27 06:35:35 I'v just was exited about opportunity don't really know what to do with such a plan, the only thing that comes to my mind is VOD Mar 27 06:35:41 sumasuma, yep Mar 27 06:36:32 sumasuma, openmoko is much better topic Mar 27 06:37:31 How to add new applications to openmoko ? Mar 27 06:39:48 Dodji: ping Mar 27 06:41:20 rwhitby, hello. Sorry for yesterday. I was struggling to compile omoko with the mokomakefile and was looking for help Mar 27 06:41:37 rwhitby, I have it compiled now. Thank you for the mokomakefile :-) Mar 27 06:42:11 rwhitby: i faced problems with svn before, i did svn update manually and it got fine Mar 27 06:43:53 Dodji: ok, great. Mar 27 07:41:49 counter Mar 27 07:41:50 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 04:18:09 (10.179 +-7.0 days) (643) Mar 27 07:42:30 tick, tock, tick, tock Mar 27 08:20:21 counter Mar 27 08:20:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 03:39:38 (10.153 +-7.0 days) (644) Mar 27 08:20:46 in 3 weeks it's my birthday, hmm hmm hmm :) Mar 27 08:27:10 next phone (that after neo1973) will have led Mar 27 08:27:15 ;D Mar 27 08:27:17 morning Mar 27 08:27:50 a led that blinks every 5 secs? Mar 27 08:27:54 :) Mar 27 08:27:59 morning Mar 27 08:30:15 xkr47: openmoko bug 300 Mar 27 08:30:56 !ombug 300 Mar 27 08:30:57 * * Bug 300, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown Mar 27 08:30:58 * * openmoko(AT)hrw.one.pl: Mechanical quality of Power button and AUX button Mar 27 08:30:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=300 Mar 27 08:33:54 openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1516 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/ (17 files in 2 dirs): Add contact window to choose contacts. Mar 27 08:38:50 my post about wifi in neo hit one of bigger Polish linux news sites ;D Mar 27 08:39:37 will have to write more about it Mar 27 08:46:01 morning Mar 27 08:46:30 oi Mac Mar 27 08:46:43 waves to hrw Mar 27 08:49:18 i meet this question, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-March/004534.html Mar 27 08:49:55 do this solve Mar 27 08:59:10 how is the GSM modem interfaced with a connected Desktop ? Mar 27 08:59:11 modzilla: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 27 08:59:53 ERROR: Error in executing: Mar 27 08:59:54 > /home/go/Projects/openmoko/openembedded/packages/gtk+/gtk+-directfb_2.10.9.bb Mar 27 08:59:54 > ERROR: Exception:exceptions.IOError Message:[Errno 2] No such file or Mar 27 08:59:54 > directory: Mar 27 08:59:54 > '/home/go/Projects/openmoko/openembedded/packages/gtk+/files/./no-xwc.patch' Mar 27 09:00:04 anyone know why? Mar 27 09:00:22 argh Mar 27 09:01:35 ping_tu: update Mar 27 09:03:32 hrw: update makefile? Mar 27 09:03:45 make update Mar 27 09:04:13 OK, thanks Mar 27 09:04:40 assuming you are using the mokomakefile Mar 27 09:04:48 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Mar 27 09:06:40 yes, i use makefile Mar 27 09:08:31 how do u interface GSM modem of a Neo with a desktop device ? Mar 27 09:14:35 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Technil]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] Mar 27 09:15:54 I have successfully compiled openmoko for x86 and fic-gta01 platform, and tested it on Fedaro Core 6 using Xoo&Xnest. There are some icon or menu items, Did Openmoko only display these icon at this phase ? Mar 27 09:29:30 mornin' Mar 27 09:56:35 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: jffs2 crc failures on Phase0 device Mar 27 10:21:44 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: No stylus on V1 release? Mar 27 10:23:54 prom, you here? Mar 27 10:25:46 * greghunt wishes amazon would stop telling him what he likes Mar 27 10:25:53 or what they think i like :/ Mar 27 10:26:50 had too much of fluffy kitten calendars? Mar 27 10:26:59 * Stephmw reports greghunt as a kitten fancier Mar 27 10:27:27 apparently i like some guy call kieren Mar 27 10:34:57 * WiggleCat wiggles Mar 27 11:03:08 hmmm has a wifi solution been choosen yet? Mar 27 11:16:34 KimuSan^,not yet, http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/03/25/#20070325-returning_from_taipei Mar 27 11:38:52 anyone using xoo & xnest who doesn't have a 90 foot display? Mar 27 11:45:47 90foot pr0n viewer, bloody hell Mar 27 11:48:39 Displays of that size rarely have good resolutions Mar 27 11:49:54 What's the best projectors at ? 1200*1000 or so? Mar 27 11:51:08 openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1517 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/ (moko-gsm-conn.c moko-gsm-conn.h openmoko-panel-gsm.c): fix lgsmd connection problem, success to get the value of gsm signal quality Mar 27 11:55:11 naa.. the default xoo 'skin' is too big... Mar 27 11:55:27 and I cna't resize the screen... Mar 27 11:55:30 :( Mar 27 11:59:09 Sure you can. Mar 27 11:59:20 * SpeedEvil passes WiggleCat some back to front binoculars. Mar 27 12:01:42 * WiggleCat thinks that objects may appear closer than they actually are Mar 27 12:03:23 More seriously, simply backing up a lot can work. Mar 27 12:04:17 .. my screen is 1280x800 the default skin is 600x129569059659695 Mar 27 12:05:21 well ok, 660x1278 Mar 27 12:06:18 ... and then the penny drops... :) Mar 27 12:17:51 has anyone tried distcc with the build? Mar 27 12:19:01 WiggleCat: we rather suggest icecream rather Mar 27 12:20:41 looks interesting hrw Mar 27 12:25:10 counter Mar 27 12:25:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 23:34:49 (9.983 +-7.0 days) (645) Mar 27 12:32:04 Ennio? Mar 27 12:43:15 hi Mar 27 13:10:30 openmoko/openembedded/packages/gtk+/files/./no-xwc.patch ... is still a problem Mar 27 13:14:43 WiggleCat: well i just commented it our in bb Mar 27 13:14:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Neo1973_Hardware]] Mar 27 13:14:48 *out Mar 27 13:16:42 WiggleCat: down grade to bitbake1.6 or update org.oe.dev... Mar 27 13:21:48 Sup3rkiddo, remove gtk+-directfb receipe Mar 27 13:22:42 empty_mind: but..will it affect my toolchain in the end? Mar 27 13:52:14 * _buz curses his isp Mar 27 13:52:23 <_buz> the third outage today (that i know of) Mar 27 13:55:46 _buz: I'm really surprised by mine. Only one outage for about 5 minutes in 2 years (no brownout or blackouts either) Mar 27 13:56:00 <_buz> so far i could say that about mine too Mar 27 13:56:18 <_buz> (looking at such that i noticed, anyway, i dont run any real stats Mar 27 14:03:28 hi folks, check with you... does openmoko want an open-sourced wifi chipset firmware or just open-sourced kernel drivers will do? Mar 27 14:04:50 there's no wifi chip Mar 27 14:05:03 i want free firmware Mar 27 14:05:10 WiggleCat: I mean the next-gen Mar 27 14:05:21 Clint: for? Mar 27 14:05:28 for my wifi chips Mar 27 14:05:47 As I understand, free kernel driver is the minimum acceptable. Dunno really the position on firmware. Mar 27 14:05:58 The gps firmware isn't open either is it? Mar 27 14:06:12 CM: I think so. Mar 27 14:06:21 open firmware is mostly a total waste of time anyway Mar 27 14:06:25 no.. Mar 27 14:06:40 WiggleCat: no what? Mar 27 14:06:51 gps firmware not open Mar 27 14:07:05 WiggleCat: thanks Mar 27 14:07:39 yes, considering the other closed chipsets one would assume that a closed firmware would not be wifi-killer Mar 27 14:07:40 <_buz> closed firmware is ok i think, preferably without the need to load it into the device Mar 27 14:08:18 <_buz> i think ar6001 is having good chances Mar 27 14:13:13 ok, thanks folks Mar 27 14:16:48 _buz: yea the ar6001 looks good, problem i see with it right now is i can't seem to find any embeddable modules currently available Mar 27 14:17:01 Does anyone here have a Neo1973 that can answer a question posed by my wife? She wants to know what prevents the touchscreen from being pressed when the phone is bouncing around in her purse. Mar 27 14:17:56 purses are evil Mar 27 14:18:04 kdean06: nothing Mar 27 14:18:20 the fact that she doesn't own one :P Mar 27 14:19:08 doesn't the design lend itself to being on a lanyard Mar 27 14:19:16 kdean06: normally the phone would be is suspend mode while in pockets/bags Mar 27 14:19:35 kdean06: requiring a button press or incoming call to wake it Mar 27 14:20:19 Hopscotch, I agree. hrw, is it sensitive enough that carrying it in a purse would trigger keypresses (by default) often? WiggleCat, She doesn't own one, but I really want one, and she thinks it's cool. I've learned to do eveything possible when my wife is willing to drop money on Free Software projects. Mar 27 14:20:33 XorA, Thank you! That's a perfet solution. ;) Mar 27 14:20:53 kdean06: the current P0 phones have a bug preventing this happening Mar 27 14:20:57 aye kdean06 Mar 27 14:21:58 XorA, Bugs get squashed in time. :) Mar 27 14:22:26 Wait a second. :P Mar 27 14:23:21 I just re-read that... What prevents a pack of gum from bringing the phone out of standby... Hrm... Maybe I need to make a cover, or a purse-friendy lanyard... Mar 27 14:24:11 <_buz> kdean06: what preents a normal candybar from coming out of standby??? Mar 27 14:24:26 <_buz> in fact, the nokias are notorious for that Mar 27 14:24:43 kdean06: can gum press a button? Mar 27 14:25:02 * lock Mar 27 14:25:37 my windows phone is always taking itself out of standby, and worse it almost always goes straight into reset mode Mar 27 14:25:45 XorA, If by "button" that means something on the touch screen, yes. Just as my cats can use my computer by jumping on the keyboard. :) Mar 27 14:25:51 no, that's just how windows works Mar 27 14:25:52 :P Mar 27 14:26:06 kdean06: no button I mean one of the two actual clickable buttons on side of case Mar 27 14:26:26 _buz, My wife HATES candybars, which is the point. She owned one, and it sucked, so she'd demanded flips since. Mar 27 14:26:34 XorA, That works then. That's unlikely to happen often. :P Mar 27 14:26:56 openmoko: 03laforge * r1518 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: Mar 27 14:26:56 openmoko: * cosmetic fix of debug statement Mar 27 14:26:56 openmoko: * correct NTC reading algorithm to compensate for 10kOhms parallel resistor Mar 27 14:26:56 openmoko: * print charge current as milliamperes (rather than integral amperes which are deemed to be 0) Mar 27 14:26:56 openmoko: * implement charge mode printing Mar 27 14:26:59 openmoko: * use sysfs_{create,remove}_group() Mar 27 14:27:00 kdean06: well the buttons are hard to push at normal times Mar 27 14:27:08 this one's not ready for consumers yet kdean06 ... devs yes.. but not your average joe Mar 27 14:27:23 yay, charge current! :) Mar 27 14:29:19 WiggleCat, I understand. I'm very interested in having a Neo to start hacking. My wife, however, is interested in us having the same phones (like we do now) and since we've also both broken them at the same time... Mar 27 14:29:41 Any excuse to drop $700 on gadgets. :) Mar 27 14:30:06 kdean06: hopefully all your wife does is phone people :-) Mar 27 14:31:03 We got the RAZR for all the snazzy stuff, and found out after three days that we'd rather use our phone to make calls only. ;) So I think if it looks shiny and can make calls she'll be happy. Mar 27 14:31:44 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: jffs2 crc failures on Phase0 device Mar 27 14:31:45 kdean06: thats good because the dialer seems to be the only working bit of openmoko so far Mar 27 14:33:51 ehehhehehe Mar 27 14:35:01 Dialer being command line, essentially? Or does X also run? Mar 27 14:35:13 It's a little X box Mar 27 14:35:14 basically Mar 27 14:35:18 the dialer works Mar 27 14:35:26 and is actually usable. Mar 27 14:36:18 Okay. As long as it functions as a phone, cool. Immediatly, that's fine. Mar 27 14:36:44 * _buz wonders if there are any really cheap phones with gps Mar 27 14:37:03 Would you guys feel comfortable giving your wife one? I mean, do you think that it WILL be usable in September, based on the progress of the project, or do you wonder? Mar 27 14:37:16 Well... Mar 27 14:37:16 <_buz> in september? sure why not Mar 27 14:37:23 <_buz> i wouldnt call winmobile particularly useable Mar 27 14:37:29 <_buz> and surely not motorola Mar 27 14:37:34 LMAO Mar 27 14:37:36 In september, it should at least be as bad as a winmobile. Mar 27 14:37:45 For most tasks. Mar 27 14:37:48 <_buz> and thats already better than moto and samsung Mar 27 14:37:52 I'd give my fiancée one. She's a Linux geek, to be sure... Mar 27 14:38:37 <_buz> in that case it's kinda mandatory ;) Mar 27 14:39:14 Lucky man. Mar 27 14:39:31 yes, I do believe I am Mar 27 14:39:40 (-: Mar 27 14:39:47 <_buz> my gf's father has a kubuntu box ;) Mar 27 14:39:54 My wife couldn't care less, but she cares that i care, which works fine. :) Mar 27 14:40:12 <_buz> thankfully i decide my self what i do with my money ;) Mar 27 14:40:21 kdean06: unlocking could require specific gesture which would be very unlikely to happen randomly Mar 27 14:40:38 Í've said it before, but let's say it again; she'll get my p1 phone after I upgrade, her enthusiasm doesn't quite warrant buying two p1's Mar 27 14:41:05 <_buz> depending on the actual discount, that might be what i do, too Mar 27 14:41:57 :) My wife is currently syncing a Motorola "smartphone" with Outlook -- she'd be happy with anything that works better (which leaves lots of room). I too plan on a staggered two-phone purchase. Mar 27 14:42:44 <_buz> battery life will have to be better than 48h though Mar 27 14:43:00 kdean06: just add a big button the interface for wife, "Phone Mum" Mar 27 14:43:37 <_buz> and for the guys "ignore wife/mum" Mar 27 14:43:50 _buz: heh heh Mar 27 14:43:51 That's easy. Just build some quick-dialer that pops up when you push the hardware button :) Mar 27 14:44:05 _buz: Every good phone should have a mute button ;) Mar 27 14:44:18 <_buz> TobiX: i was thinking selective mute Mar 27 14:44:26 hmmm, a couple of oggs of you saying yes dear, that sounds ok dear, mmmhmmmm and your phone can handle 90% of calls Mar 27 14:44:27 s/phone/woman Mar 27 14:44:39 <_buz> yeah that would be a neat feature Mar 27 14:44:54 <_buz> if we ever get to genetically engineered humans, that will be in high demand Mar 27 14:45:35 _buz: its already invented, its call Ben and Jerrys Phish Food Mar 27 14:45:40 http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20051209/woman-remote-control/ *ducks* Mar 27 14:45:44 _buz: with the addition of a genetically enhanced fear of shopping Mar 27 14:45:58 <_buz> i was going to say jessica alba looks Mar 27 14:46:26 :wq Mar 27 14:46:31 ooops Mar 27 14:46:35 wrong window Mar 27 14:47:21 WiggleCat: Yeah, "We vi users never make mistakes :wq" Mar 27 14:49:17 :P Mar 27 14:51:45 why is the a minus on boobs? Mar 27 14:52:05 <_buz> perhaps to stop other guys from hitting on her Mar 27 15:10:59 hmm. gsmd somehow doesn't parse CMS ERROR messages correctly. they always end up being interpreted as unsolicited extd replies. Mar 27 15:14:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Higher_level_language_options]] [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] Mar 27 15:23:51 Hello Mar 27 15:26:27 What is the relative accuracy of the GPS unit? For example, if the unit were placed in a stationary position, how much movement would it report? (ion Mar 27 15:27:23 ionosphere changes, etc.) Mar 27 15:27:38 Around 2-5m Mar 27 15:27:47 that mich? Mar 27 15:27:51 yes. Mar 27 15:27:54 that much? Mar 27 15:28:02 hang on - I have a graph! Mar 27 15:28:16 SpeedEvil: I'm curious about the error distribution too ;) Mar 27 15:28:22 more time, better accuracy? Mar 27 15:29:08 http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.geo.satellite-nav/msg/dd900d6dc51d227c?dmode=source&hl=en Mar 27 15:29:23 this is a post I made some time ago, with my GPS12 Mar 27 15:29:32 it is going to be essentially similar. Mar 27 15:29:37 Maybe a _very_ little better. Mar 27 15:30:30 * SpeedEvil realises he hasn't paid that ISP in most of a decade... Mar 27 15:31:56 I diddn't end up with doing more averaging. Mar 27 15:32:01 does anybody know which ETSI standard contains the CMS error code definitions? Mar 27 15:35:55 So we could probably assume the unit was stationary when it's on the charger, but we can't make that assumption based on GPS... Mar 27 15:36:52 dmc Mar 27 15:37:25 ah, got it Mar 27 15:37:41 well... Mar 27 15:37:57 you can - pretty much - if the phone is in a stationary location. Mar 27 15:38:17 but charger is probably safest metric. Mar 27 15:39:16 not if I'm charging it in my car Mar 27 15:39:23 SpeedEvil: hows the audio so far with the neo? Mar 27 15:39:38 well - it's very rare that you'll be going slower than the GPS error drift Mar 27 15:39:49 which is some millimetres per second generally. Mar 27 15:39:56 * SpeedEvil does not have hardware :( Mar 27 15:40:13 SpeedEvil: oh Mar 27 15:43:16 openmoko: 03thomas * r1519 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c): Mar 27 15:43:16 openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c: (update_paging_info): Set page numbers Mar 27 15:43:16 openmoko: rather than number of events on pager widget Mar 27 16:03:19 funny funny, i've been trying to find someone that is a distributor for the WM8753 for weeks now, can't seem to find anyone Mar 27 16:06:22 gtg cu Mar 27 16:06:50 you want to order the chips? Mar 27 16:08:31 balrog-kun: yea, we are considering using it Mar 27 16:09:06 prpplague: have yout ried the ordering instructions from the last page of the datasheet? Mar 27 16:09:20 btw, it was designed specifically for the Neo1973, Mar 27 16:09:26 but i'm sure it will work in other applications Mar 27 16:09:50 balrog-kun: yea, getting samples hasn't been a problem, its been getting pricing for 1000 qty at a time Mar 27 16:11:11 i see Mar 27 16:12:58 balrog-kun: the 8573 was specifically designed for the neo? Mar 27 16:13:48 prpplague: yep, according to Liam Girdwood Mar 27 16:14:16 interesting Mar 27 16:14:47 balrog-kun: well we'd like to use something that has pretty good linux support, not really interested in spending alot of time on the audio support Mar 27 16:14:56 there's lots of things that neo doesn't use (unwired pins) but i guess they are left from the 8756 Mar 27 16:15:21 i get this error while building openmoko for x86 "build/tmp/work/x86-linux/sysvinit-2.86-r33/sysvinit-2.86/src/bootlogd.c:150: undefined reference to `openpty'" Mar 27 16:15:40 prpplague: wolfson microsystems maintains the drivers for all their chips themselves, so i think they have good linux support Mar 27 16:15:55 what could be wrong. I have glibc and glibc-dev installed on ubuntu edgy box Mar 27 16:15:59 balrog-kun: yea, we are just doing the basics, just want some support for playing some audio responses and support for voip headset Mar 27 16:16:09 the whole ASoC framework is Liam's work Mar 27 16:16:20 balrog-kun: yea from what i've heard they have several linux developers on staff Mar 27 16:18:57 counter Mar 27 16:18:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 19:41:02 (9.820 +-7.0 days) (646) Mar 27 16:19:33 prpplague: will it be a phone too? Mar 27 16:19:51 balrog-kun: no, industrial handheld device Mar 27 16:20:34 as i understand it the chips above 8750 are for phones (probably not all of them) with outputs and input for gsm Mar 27 16:21:04 8750 and below are for things like PDAs Mar 27 16:21:55 balrog-kun: right, we need to have support for voip with the use of a headset Mar 27 16:39:16 holy lemmings! 18 hours later it completes Mar 27 17:07:23 re Mar 27 17:12:43 koen|work: greetings Mar 27 17:18:51 hey prpplague Mar 27 17:18:58 * koen still hasn't located his driver license Mar 27 17:19:16 koen: i see you will be speaking at CELF Mar 27 17:19:24 koen: I bet you lost it in brazil. Mar 27 17:19:26 * WiggleCat sells koen a fake one Mar 27 17:19:29 prpplague: yes Mar 27 17:19:36 koen: congrads Mar 27 17:19:37 zecke: I didn't even bring it to brazil :( Mar 27 17:19:51 koen: aren't your parents in CA? Mar 27 17:20:00 and it is kinda embarrassing since I have to drive to work Mar 27 17:20:08 and work is at a _police_ station Mar 27 17:20:24 koen: that is just plain funny Mar 27 17:20:56 zecke: today I drove into an army base without ID or drivers license Mar 27 17:21:16 they were pissed off when I left and couldn't find my entry :) Mar 27 17:21:18 koen: I did not read about it in the news, what did you do there? Mar 27 17:21:32 I was working there :) Mar 27 17:23:09 * koen waits for mickeyl to come online Mar 27 17:23:35 koen: hehe, are you waiting for your SoC judging? Mar 27 17:24:24 zecke: I didn't participate in the SoC this year Mar 27 17:24:32 too much stuff to do in the summer Mar 27 17:24:49 koen: so you won't write the web proxy in php? that is bad Mar 27 17:33:41 counter Mar 27 17:33:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 18:26:18 (9.768 +-7.0 days) (647) Mar 27 18:07:15 koen - You worked for the army? Mar 27 18:08:15 Elrond: dutch army, they don't do anything anyway Mar 27 18:08:42 Elrond: for a contractor for the army (http://bsst.de) Mar 27 18:09:06 * mwester considers an army base without license -- and notes that in Chicago he a drivers license to get into an Insurance company for a meeting the other day... Mar 27 18:09:23 s/he a/he needed a/ Mar 27 18:15:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] Mar 27 18:18:06 zecke - You mean, they wear funny uniforms and have a nice day? ;o) Mar 27 18:33:50 is it possible to pull and build any stable version of openmoko ? i.e not the bleeding edge thing but working thing for rnd Mar 27 18:34:07 there's no such thing yet :) Mar 27 18:34:23 guaqua_, :-( Mar 27 18:34:48 guaqua_, actaully dev version gives a new bug everyday Mar 27 18:35:32 you probably have to build it by hand if it's that way Mar 27 18:35:58 guaqua_, by hand ? Mar 27 18:36:09 manually Mar 27 18:36:18 guaqua_, how ? Mar 27 18:36:19 tinker with options and stuff...i don't know :) Mar 27 18:36:26 guaqua_, thnxs Mar 27 18:36:27 Not with the moko makefile, but using bitbake directly Mar 27 18:36:31 i've only built it with the mokomakefile Mar 27 18:36:59 You can find how to do it manually in the wiki :) Mar 27 18:37:00 guaqua_, i built it successfully with mokomakefile couple of times. But facing problems for past 2 weeks Mar 27 18:37:13 empty_mind: Other way around for me Mar 27 18:37:27 It failed the first weeks, but no problems at all the last days Mar 27 18:37:38 Haven't build it today, but I'll try tonight Mar 27 18:38:06 CM, i am hitting weird bugs. Like 'xdmcp' package not found Mar 27 18:38:25 or openpty not found (while building x86) Mar 27 18:38:39 Ok, I haven't tried that yet Mar 27 18:38:58 * CM thinks about trying x86_64 tonight just for the sake of it ;) Mar 27 18:39:04 fed up of al this, i decided to build everything from scracth today in a seperate dir, lets hope how it goes Mar 27 18:40:09 hi Mar 27 18:40:20 Hello Mar 27 18:41:46 I'am new to openmoko. Are there any quickstarter for developer guides available ? Mar 27 18:41:46 barmeier: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 27 18:42:03 empty_mind: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko the build from scratch works, following the information from the wiki (e.g. to be used OE mtn revision) Mar 27 18:42:52 OMG!!1 software marked as unstable and under development has bugs!!! Mar 27 18:42:54 OMG!!! Mar 27 18:43:30 koen: the price for frikandel raises, zecke is confused and mentally disturbed Mar 27 18:43:55 frikandel :F Mar 27 18:44:02 what's that? Mar 27 18:45:18 zecke|zZzzZZzzzZ, point is my build used to work for till 2 weeks ago, untill libX11 failed to compile Mar 27 18:45:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frikandel (very good, btw) Mar 27 18:47:16 mmm Mar 27 18:47:22 i'd like to get some of those Mar 27 18:48:57 <_buz> sounds very healthy, deep fried fat ;) Mar 27 18:50:25 I've just had dinner, and now I'm hungry again.. :P Mar 27 18:50:58 CM: same here Mar 27 18:51:07 i think i've gotta heat up some more Mar 27 18:51:20 so THANK YOU, for bringing up the frikandels :< Mar 27 19:27:50 wiggle wiggle Mar 27 19:46:04 gah! Mar 27 20:09:40 I think there needs to be a disclaimer on the openmoko Mar 27 20:09:42 http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/27/faith-in-gps-sends-mercedes-downstream/ Mar 27 20:14:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] Mar 27 20:15:10 So... Does her GPS also keep track of other cars and people? Since she obviously wasn't watching the road, she must have had another way to avoid crashing into someone/something. Mar 27 20:24:33 ozamosi, normally she has a chauffeur Mar 27 20:31:19 Here on Hwy 285 in Denver, I observed a woman applying her mascara while talking on a cell phone. She was oblivious to the cars around her. Mar 27 20:31:40 In the case of uboot on these things, does it call directly into some specified memory location to what is essentially main() in the kernel? Mar 27 20:32:22 yes Mar 27 20:32:26 Thanks. Mar 27 20:33:28 (I found a SoC student to do a Plan 9 port :D) Mar 27 20:33:38 ! Mar 27 20:33:48 :S Mar 27 20:34:33 The last ARM appliance I worked with used some other boot loader, but I don't remember what it was called anymore Mar 27 20:34:37 koen krop or something Mar 27 20:38:22 dho: linux booting is standarised, all bootloader do it the same way Mar 27 20:39:05 I'm not going to be booting Linux, hence the question Mar 27 20:39:21 (Also, I don't use Linux, so I wouldn't know in the first place) Mar 27 20:39:26 are plan 9 kernels in ELF format? Mar 27 20:40:28 most modern OSes except Linux have kernels in ELF format, which is also standard and i'm sure u-boot has an ELF loader Mar 27 20:40:34 * WiggleCat2 calls ELF and saftey Mar 27 20:40:43 No, it's not ELF Mar 27 20:40:44 s/ey/y Mar 27 20:41:10 dho: can grub boot it? :p Mar 27 20:41:23 on x86 that is Mar 27 20:41:38 Dunno, I've never tried. Mar 27 20:41:45 oh ok Mar 27 20:41:45 I don't use GRUB either Mar 27 20:42:07 Anyway, if it just says 0xabcdef and expects machine code to be there, it should work fine Mar 27 20:42:17 That's what the other loader did, and it loaded Plan 9 just fine Mar 27 20:42:46 yeah, there's "bootm " command in u-boot Mar 27 20:43:20 Cool, should work dandily then Mar 27 20:43:35 mhh, bootm expects to find a uImage iirc Mar 27 20:43:54 at least i use bootm to load my uImage from Mar 27 20:44:56 Hm, I guess I don't see a reason why a uImage can't contain any generic kernel then Mar 27 20:45:00 but "go" might be what you're looking for: Mar 27 20:45:01 go - start application at address 'addr' Mar 27 20:45:31 Since the creation script seems to take an address to start execution Mar 27 20:45:46 yeah, guess it's used for "u-boot" applications, too Mar 27 20:46:30 oh, i thought bootm just jumps Mar 27 20:47:23 it also checks the CRC Mar 27 20:47:47 and i guess it also examines the image type Mar 27 20:49:15 and probably sets up the commandline, ATAGs and machine ID Mar 27 20:51:42 SpeedEvil - BTW: Do you remember, what happened to the discussion of only switching a few LEDs of the backlight on instead of all of them? Mar 27 20:52:17 It basically needs backlight mods. Mar 27 20:53:05 Elrond: most tft led backlights can't be controlled for individual leds Mar 27 20:53:20 yes, there are probably three LEDs. Mar 27 20:53:36 SpeedEvil: with individual lines for each led? Mar 27 20:53:36 you'd want a smaller than nominal output LED in addition to the three. Mar 27 20:53:41 It depends. Mar 27 20:53:46 I suspect not. Mar 27 20:54:24 SpeedEvil: from what i've seen, and we are doing in our design, is running the leds with a pwm so we can control the brightness Mar 27 20:54:25 three is just worked out from brightness and efficiency numbers. Mar 27 20:54:38 yeah - that's not the same idea. Mar 27 20:54:51 the idea is to have a 1*1cm or so patch of the display illuminated. Mar 27 20:54:52 SpeedEvil: right i understand that Mar 27 20:55:12 SpeedEvil: oh? to what end? Mar 27 20:55:38 This would only make sense if the display chosen can in fact draw pixels over SPI - as some can in addition to the framebuffer interface. Mar 27 20:56:00 ooo, selective lighting and painting? Mar 27 20:56:11 SpeedEvil: but to accomplish what? Mar 27 20:56:14 or are you going to strobe the thing? Mar 27 20:56:19 so you can keep the CPU either in slow mode, with the minimal backlight on, or turning the CPU on and off every once in a while. Mar 27 20:56:37 Basically to keep status/clock/whatever setup. Mar 27 20:57:11 SpeedEvil: basically to just show that the system is on Mar 27 20:57:30 No - on, 'message recieved', clock, signal icons Mar 27 20:58:12 Of course, an extra (trans)flective display would also do ;) Mar 27 20:58:28 That would work too - though it makes the display dimmer, or use more power. Mar 27 20:59:47 If the display uses 200mW or so to backlight at full power nominally, 1cm^2 at the same brightness, neglecting lots else would be 10mW. Mar 27 21:00:33 Well, and extra display without backlight would probably take less, right? Mar 27 21:00:47 yes. Mar 27 21:02:09 The only advantage the main display has is colour, and the fact that it could almost be 'free', once the extra LED desigh has been done. Mar 27 21:02:43 Oh - night too. Mar 27 21:03:37 Yeah, it work at night. ;) Mar 27 21:11:26 SpeedEvil: interesting idea Mar 27 21:12:08 counter Mar 27 21:12:08 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 14:47:51 (9.617 +-7.0 days) (648) Mar 27 21:12:15 mmm. so close. Mar 27 21:15:00 hmm, when the battery is inserted into the neo, does it automatically power on and boot? Mar 27 21:15:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] Mar 27 21:17:47 prpplague: no Mar 27 21:18:55 rwhitby: so when does the device actually power on? Mar 27 21:19:09 when you push the power button for five seconds Mar 27 21:19:58 rwhitby: the power button connect to the pcf50606 ? Mar 27 21:20:15 dunno. I presume so. Mar 27 21:20:45 rwhitby: so you don't know for sure then Mar 27 21:21:49 I know that you have to push the power button. I don't know for sure what that button is connected to (cause I don't have the schematics). I assume it's connected to the pcf50606 due to the code in the kernel driver source and u-boot. Mar 27 21:24:37 rwhitby: yea, looking at the specs for the pcf50606 now, looks that way Mar 27 21:39:08 "It will probably include an upgrade to 1GB on-board flash." Mar 27 21:39:13 yuuuummm :) Mar 27 21:42:24 1GBit I think. Mar 27 21:43:14 Where is that info from? Mar 27 21:44:39 I read here on IRC that the 1GByte was a misunderstanding by the reporter and it was actually 1Gbit (cause flash chips are sold in Giga-bit, not Giga-byte, sizes) Mar 27 21:45:25 (i.e. a doubling of flash space from 64MB (512MBit) to 128MB (1GBit) Mar 27 21:46:12 Will the RAM then also be increased? Mar 27 21:46:52 More ram than flash is good, because it allows to load flashupdates into ram, then let the phone put it into flash on its own. Mar 27 21:46:59 that would be a separate decision - the two are not linked. Mar 27 21:47:33 (could check for enough battery first. That way the update wont break due to power outages / PC errors) Mar 27 21:47:34 dfu-util allows you to write directly to flash - no need for RAM staging. Mar 27 21:48:03 Anyone who flashes on battery deserves to have their phone broken. Mar 27 21:48:15 That's almost as bad as flashing over wireless. Mar 27 21:48:33 On battery and usb. :) Mar 27 21:48:51 staging to RAM is good. IMO. Mar 27 21:48:57 And I think, current dfu-util goes through RAM. Mar 27 21:49:22 Elrond: why do you think that? Mar 27 21:49:23 One could also apply some sanity checks in-RAM. Mar 27 21:49:29 Yeah. Mar 27 21:49:44 Like crypto signatures if the user has set that up. Mar 27 21:50:09 SpeedEvil - Yeah, that would be even better. Mar 27 21:50:35 I don't want the government trojaned u-boot on my phone. ;) Mar 27 21:50:40 Or maybe it might be better to ship by default only allowing 'unblessed' tools. Mar 27 21:50:47 err - blessed kernels. Mar 27 21:51:00 You need to do something to enable any kernel getting loaded. Mar 27 21:51:05 how often do you expect to be flashing, once the phone is mainstream, as opposed to "ipkg upgrade" (which can also write flash for a new kernel if necessary, and doesn't need more RAM than current for that) ? Mar 27 21:51:18 Very rarely. Mar 27 21:51:52 If I think someone may have been screwing with my phone. Mar 27 21:52:14 though simply reading back from u-boot may be as good. Mar 27 21:53:04 ipkg install needs crypto verification. flashing doesn't (check the pedigree of the image on the host before flashing it to the device) Mar 27 21:53:19 DFU goes through RAM: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_DFU#Type_of_DFU_Download Mar 27 21:54:37 Elrond: that's only for the uboot partition (which is much much smaller than current RAM, and won't get any bigger no matter what the flash size). If you read further, kernel and rootfs are flashed directly. Mar 27 21:55:02 NAND size and RAM size are not linked. Mar 27 21:55:20 Yeah, did so. Mar 27 21:55:46 BTW: I still have not found any docs on how partitioning works on the neo, any pointers? Mar 27 21:55:58 (I don't mean BBT. Just the plain partitioning) Mar 27 21:56:35 partitioning of flash? it's all done in software by uboot and the kernel. there are no physical partitions. Mar 27 21:56:55 you can't partition NAND/jffs2 properly anyway. Mar 27 21:57:17 So u-boot has hard coded sizes for the "partitions" and tells them to the kernel? Mar 27 21:57:40 Or how does the kernel know, where the rootfs is? Mar 27 21:57:41 Elrond: look in devirginator source, "environment" file. Mar 27 21:59:17 rwhitby - http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/devirginator/environment.in That one? I can't see anything close to "hard coded partition sizes" there. Mar 27 22:00:52 ${mtdparts} is what does it. Mar 27 22:01:14 <_ASK> who has purchased the phone? Mar 27 22:01:34 rwhitby - So where is that set from? Mar 27 22:02:32 upi cam Mar 27 22:02:33 er Mar 27 22:02:36 you can't yet? Mar 27 22:04:47 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r59 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: If there are multiple heads, then just choose one for update Mar 27 22:15:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[Current_events]] Mar 27 23:15:44 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[User:Barnasc]] Mar 27 23:25:17 http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/032607/four-second-dick.gif Mar 28 00:15:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List]] Mar 28 00:20:13 openmoko: 03laforge * r1520 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c: fix GSM signal strength parsing (Closes: 291) Mar 28 01:15:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 28 01:27:38 My build is failing on openmoko-devel-image, it seems like it's trying to write a few of the things to the actual /etc. (http://www.pastebin.ca/412945) Mar 28 01:31:18 # Mar 28 01:31:18 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-debug: Mar 28 01:31:18 # Mar 28 01:31:18 | fstests Mar 28 01:31:21 that's the problem Mar 28 01:32:00 the postinst is a problem too Mar 28 01:38:39 So, would make clean-package-fstests and try again be likely to help any? Mar 28 01:38:40 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) Mar 28 01:39:32 how to add an application to openmoko ? Mar 28 01:40:35 does help in any question trigger you? Mar 28 01:42:36 MacNorth_: is that for me ? Mar 28 01:43:00 heh, no; it looked like your question triggered aloril's bot-response Mar 28 01:50:28 Ah, I see. fstests-0.0+svn20060814-r1/temp/run.do_install.4966 uses a find -perm -755 to do the installing, but the files are actually 750 due to my umask. Mar 28 02:16:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Hcblue]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Mar 28 02:32:20 openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1521 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/data/ (Makefile.am SignalStrength25g_00.png): delete gps connect error image, which is only for test and useless **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 28 02:59:56 2007