**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 30 02:59:56 2007 Mar 30 03:01:45 rwhitby: Well, it's actually some kind of init hang. The kernel boots, init boots, starts up udev, bluetooth stuff, everything like that Mar 30 03:01:59 and during all that, it's printing "hub: Cannot enable port 1. Maybe the USB cable is bad" Mar 30 03:02:15 and eventually init stuff stops happening, and I'm just left with that message repeating Mar 30 03:02:28 I'm using the 20070303 devirginate stuff, nothing else Mar 30 03:02:31 ah, dunno then. Mar 30 03:16:05 Hi all, Im new here.. what new features can I expect from the openmoko ? Mar 30 03:16:05 Sanjeewa: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 30 03:16:25 cheers Mar 30 03:39:34 d'oh! I upgraded kernel without upgrading modules. What's the normal way to upgrade modules? Mar 30 03:41:37 make modules_install Mar 30 03:41:42 oh Mar 30 03:41:49 no idea about openmoko Mar 30 03:41:50 hahaha Mar 30 03:42:04 that'd work on regular linux, should work... :) Mar 30 03:48:18 yeah, different story. for one thing, I need to get the modules tarball to the device.. Mar 30 03:48:43 * MacNorth completed another successful mokomakefile run today :-) Mar 30 03:53:19 anyone know how to get a terminal in latest nand images? Mar 30 03:56:01 nice, last 3 faq triggers where spot on Mar 30 03:57:38 huh? why isn't there a prompt on u-boot or a getty on serial anymore? Mar 30 03:59:50 !counter Mar 30 03:59:54 counter Mar 30 03:59:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 08:00:06 (7.333 +-7.0 days) (678,132) Mar 30 04:06:17 cjb: getty on serial conflicts with gsm uart Mar 30 04:06:38 cjb: only way to get a terminal is to ssh in via usbnet and start rxvt Mar 30 04:07:15 rwhitby: you mean someone hasn't made a menu icon for that yet? Mar 30 04:08:23 init_alx: not in the standard image, no. Mar 30 04:08:28 wow Mar 30 04:08:29 ;) Mar 30 04:08:35 y'all are slow Mar 30 04:09:05 i Mar 30 04:09:27 init_alx: no, we all just ssh in - using a touchscreen terminal for development is crazy Mar 30 04:10:11 rwhitby: well still, it'd be cool to be able to ssh from it Mar 30 04:10:22 or does ip routing over gsm/gprs not work yet? Mar 30 04:10:38 gprs isn't up yet Mar 30 04:10:45 awww Mar 30 04:10:57 it's bluetooth or usbnet at the moment. Mar 30 04:11:02 hehe Mar 30 04:11:28 I use the keyboard on the Treo650 to ssh into the Neo via bluetooth and start rxvt if I need to. Mar 30 04:11:36 :D Mar 30 04:42:10 night all :) Mar 30 05:21:23 cjb: where are you building openmoko kernels? Mar 30 05:21:28 cjb: grinch? Mar 30 05:50:10 Hi :) Mar 30 06:01:26 uboot build is broken Mar 30 06:09:30 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=331 Mar 30 06:11:43 <_ASK> rwhitby: a keyboard is a must, isn't it? Mar 30 06:12:32 it is for me, for other's it's not. it's an individual choice I think. Mar 30 06:41:37 counter Mar 30 06:41:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 05:18:22 (7.221 +-7.0 days) (679,132) Mar 30 06:43:33 good morning Mar 30 06:44:34 what does (679,132) means? it's a phone number for orders? Mar 30 06:45:00 i think, it's a broken counter Mar 30 06:45:58 total and unique requests for the counter Mar 30 06:58:46 ok Mar 30 07:04:34 counter Mar 30 07:04:34 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 04:55:25 (7.205 +-7.0 days) (680,132) Mar 30 07:09:02 morning Mar 30 08:16:42 morning Mar 30 08:20:13 Morgen alle. =P Mar 30 08:27:06 hi all Mar 30 08:36:56 mornin' Mar 30 08:43:41 counter Mar 30 08:43:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 03:16:18 (7.136 +-7.0 days) (681,132) Mar 30 08:56:04 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: Wifi Mar 30 08:57:45 Q4/2007 Mar 30 09:01:04 hey rwhitby Mar 30 09:01:15 so wifi in v2 Mar 30 09:01:20 hm.. build is broken by haralds new uboot patches Mar 30 09:01:47 roh: yeah, I've submitted a bug on it Mar 30 09:02:03 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=331 Mar 30 09:03:05 heh Mar 30 09:03:21 somehow this autobuilder spamming the bugzilla must be workaroundable Mar 30 09:37:00 !ombug 333 Mar 30 09:37:02 * * Bug 333, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Mar 30 09:37:03 * * openmoko(AT)hrw.one.pl: OM-messages 20070330 does not build Mar 30 09:37:03 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=333 Mar 30 09:42:39 heh. NetworkManager on my laptop drops my wlan connection when I plug in the neo1973 because it favours the usb network connection. Mar 30 09:43:10 Hehe Mar 30 09:44:44 *g* ... nm is somehow still unusable for geek-computers (which have more than one ip-connection to the outside more than not) Mar 30 09:46:28 so not for laptops at all... Mar 30 09:50:30 hmmm... i run out of usbports Mar 30 09:51:00 especially ones which allow to supply 500mA ;) Mar 30 10:00:00 <_ASK> i hate closed source devices Mar 30 10:00:09 <_ASK> i have a CDMA treo 650 that is locked Mar 30 10:00:28 pH5, if you add the usb connection to /etc/network/interfaces , networkmanager shouldnt be able to see it Mar 30 10:01:20 parag0n: thanks, I know. Mar 30 10:02:14 <_ASK> i'm cracking the code, but have no idea how resources are saved on a PRC Mar 30 10:03:00 nm is useless to me, it refuses to support WPA on my rt61 card Mar 30 10:03:24 Just do the VPN thingy, Mar 30 10:03:25 i had to write a bunch of pre-up scripts to connect :< Mar 30 10:05:53 _ASK: part of the treo650 drivers have been reverse engineered already Mar 30 10:06:12 _ASK: check the linux drivers and the hackdev.org wiki Mar 30 10:06:19 *hackndev.org Mar 30 10:06:20 <_ASK> oh no, the problem is the master subsidy lock Mar 30 10:06:29 ah ok Mar 30 10:06:38 <_ASK> i bet it's embeded in the CDMA module Mar 30 10:07:02 <_ASK> it's locked and I'm trying to modify the phne application in palm os to reset it Mar 30 10:07:15 i think it would be in some pdb Mar 30 10:07:35 btw there are programs for browsing the non-code resources embedded in prc and pdb files Mar 30 10:07:40 <_ASK> it's just a matter fo "NOP" the routine which cheks the code Mar 30 10:08:28 <_ASK> it's not in any PDB, i checked already Mar 30 10:08:37 <_ASK> i'm almost certain that it's inside the CDMA module Mar 30 10:09:15 isn't it different on every phone? Mar 30 10:09:24 the code i mean Mar 30 10:09:29 <_ASK> yes Mar 30 10:09:48 <_ASK> MSL is generated by ESN number and some random algorithm Mar 30 10:10:03 so they would sheep a different prc with each single device? Mar 30 10:10:26 <_ASK> nope. what they do is to lock the phone manually before shipping it Mar 30 10:10:58 <_ASK> software is the same in each phone, it's just some piece of ROM which contains the lock code Mar 30 10:11:13 <_ASK> the configuring application needs the proper code to change settings Mar 30 10:11:36 <_ASK> that the code is valid or not is irrelevant; what matters is that the application can change the settings Mar 30 10:12:16 <_ASK> i already found the program which does the check, i dissasembled it, extracted resources Mar 30 10:12:30 <_ASK> i even found the exact resource which contains the "not valid" string Mar 30 10:12:43 <_ASK> what i have no idea is how to NOP Mar 30 10:14:15 <_ASK> i must find the procedure call which shows the dialog on the screen Mar 30 10:14:32 <_ASK> and trace backwards to find the instruction which compares the codes Mar 30 10:16:13 <_ASK> oh, I'm getting old; I used to do this all the time. Mar 30 10:19:14 You're assuming it's a simple code, and not a way to answer a challenge from the network though. Mar 30 10:19:34 <_ASK> it's a simple code Mar 30 10:19:41 k Mar 30 10:19:42 <_ASK> you can get it activating passtrough Mar 30 10:19:50 <_ASK> but i don't have the cable Mar 30 10:20:01 <_ASK> and i'm trying to disable the code just by software Mar 30 10:22:34 If it was me, I'd put the comparison in the network, and the dialog simply prints the result of the comparison in the network. Anyway, we have no CDMA here. Mar 30 10:24:32 <_ASK> if it was you phones would run linux =) Mar 30 10:25:43 <_ASK> we are talking about lazy private company coders Mar 30 10:25:55 <_ASK> they simply put a number expecting nobody will ever know Mar 30 10:30:44 <_ASK> and in fact, i don't think there is so much people out there with the knowledge to crack such codes Mar 30 10:49:55 if someone built openmoko packages yesterday or today - prepare for break Mar 30 10:50:12 <_ASK> damn, I'm stuck. Mar 30 10:50:13 if you built 2 days ago then you will not notice Mar 30 10:58:31 counter Mar 30 10:58:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 01:01:28 (7.043 +-7.0 days) (682,132) Mar 30 11:01:04 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Wifi Mar 30 11:01:19 hrw: what kind of break? Mar 30 11:01:52 ah, nm Mar 30 11:01:59 splitting out of -journal Mar 30 11:18:24 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r61 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (series uboot-remove-extra-boards.patch): Remove extra uboot boards which don't build properly yet Mar 30 11:19:15 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r62 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added setup-openmoko-developer target. Mar 30 11:24:16 NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r4_6db7d0af2336c126e4d4b2f248cc23516bdd46a8_1557: task do_build: completed Mar 30 11:24:34 * Stephmw applauds Mar 30 11:24:39 what changed since 1511? Mar 30 11:24:58 rwhitby :) Mar 30 11:25:59 hrw: that reminds me, I need to set up RSS from cia.vc openmoko project Mar 30 11:26:36 sigh svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused Mar 30 11:26:59 http://cia.vc/stats/project/openmoko/.rss Mar 30 11:28:40 openmoko: 03dodji * r1567 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c): Mar 30 11:28:40 openmoko: Fix a potential crasher when calendar or adressbook could not be open. Mar 30 11:28:40 openmoko: * applications/openmoko-today/src/today-events-area.c: Mar 30 11:28:40 openmoko: (today_events_area_set_events_auto): don' t g_object_unref() NULL Mar 30 11:28:40 openmoko: objects. Mar 30 11:28:42 openmoko: 03dodji * r1568 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog configure.ac libmokojournal/moko-journal.h): Mar 30 11:28:44 openmoko: Started the libmokojournal API draft Mar 30 11:28:46 openmoko: * openmoko-libs/configure.ac: add libecal as a dependency. Mar 30 11:28:48 openmoko: This is used by libmokojournal. Mar 30 11:28:50 openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/moko-journal.h: started to draft the Mar 30 11:28:52 openmoko: obvious part of the API. Mar 30 11:44:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:AGPS]] Mar 30 12:17:41 counter Mar 30 12:17:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:51:09 (6.994 +-7.0 days) (683,132) Mar 30 12:19:27 !ombug 335 Mar 30 12:19:28 * * Bug 335, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Mar 30 12:19:29 * * openmoko(AT)hrw.one.pl: Annoying typo in dfu-util Mar 30 12:19:30 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=335 Mar 30 12:19:45 in about 4.5 hours uncertainty should be 6.9 days ;-) Mar 30 12:51:15 counter Mar 30 12:51:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:34:22 (6.982 +-7.0 days) (684,132) Mar 30 13:03:35 Hello, everyone Mar 30 13:06:32 counter Mar 30 13:06:33 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:26:43 (6.977 +-7.0 days) (685,132) Mar 30 13:06:37 Hello, quickdev Mar 30 13:06:43 hello :) Mar 30 13:07:26 It seems pretty empty here... Mar 30 13:07:39 ...was there any success with GPS on openmoko? Mar 30 13:07:44 no. Mar 30 13:07:48 Not as yet. Mar 30 13:08:03 Global Locate are still being slow apparently. Mar 30 13:08:32 Too bad. Thanks for info, speed. Mar 30 13:08:45 No further delay information. Mar 30 13:09:03 I suspect they are concentrating on getting them shippable. Mar 30 13:10:01 * mjr just wonders if how difficult are GL being, like "what, we didn't know you were shipping this on an open OS computer, no code for you" difficult or just annoying Mar 30 13:10:23 AIUI, just slow at actually generating the binary blob. Mar 30 13:10:42 ok Mar 30 13:13:03 Hello, magon, send greetings to Troja Mar 30 13:13:16 hi pavelm Mar 30 13:13:35 Hi, hrw! Mar 30 13:13:57 pavelm: ? Mar 30 13:14:25 I got dialer somehow working, by using snapshot from buildhost Mar 30 13:14:26 pavelm: are you going to matrix? Mar 30 13:14:31 magon: Yes. Mar 30 13:14:45 pavelm: maybe see you there :-) Mar 30 13:14:45 magon: Not sure if I want to carry openmoko with me, though. Mar 30 13:14:53 pavelm: you have already one? Mar 30 13:14:54 magon: Which team? Mar 30 13:15:04 pavelm: Brumici Mar 30 13:15:05 magon: Yes. Mar 30 13:15:07 grr Medici Mar 30 13:15:14 magon: Sedma beruska z deviti. Mar 30 13:15:27 i have seen you there Mar 30 13:15:56 pavelm: how have you got neo? Mar 30 13:16:26 magon: They were sending out few of them as "phase 0". But it has some severe hw problems... Mar 30 13:16:52 pavelm: i know..but it was quite hard to be one of them Mar 30 13:17:04 magon: I made it ;-) Mar 30 13:17:18 you are hacking kernel on it? Mar 30 13:17:45 ...no wonder dialer does not work on it... gsmd asks for pin, and apparently there's no gui for that. Mar 30 13:18:15 pavelm: disable pin or write script which will echo pin to gsm modem Mar 30 13:18:35 magon: I was getting tui to work on that, because kernel was actually pretty usable Mar 30 13:18:41 hrw: I was able to enter pin from gsmd Mar 30 13:18:43 ok Mar 30 13:18:55 hrw: But then gui got confused, and I stare at blank screen. Mar 30 13:19:22 pavelm: if everything goes well i will write the Footer app Mar 30 13:19:53 hrw... ok, I ran another dialer, and this one asks for pin. ... but I entered pin already. Mar 30 13:20:33 is gsmd expected to handle commandline client (libgsmd-tool -m shell) and graphical fronend at same time? Mar 30 13:21:02 no idea Mar 30 13:22:27 hrw.. it seems to somehow work. But still no sound, and alsamixer complains alsamixer: function snd_mixer_load failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device Mar 30 13:22:39 ...which probably means mismatched kernel and userland. Mar 30 13:22:48 magon: Footer is status bar? Mar 30 13:23:29 libgsmd-tool and gui dialer do work at the same time Mar 30 13:23:50 pavelm: yes Mar 30 13:24:03 ...wow, now I got gsm call working. But still no sound. Mar 30 13:24:33 pavelm: you need proper alsa config for it Mar 30 13:25:11 e.g. http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmhandset.working.state Mar 30 13:25:18 or http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmheadset.working.state Mar 30 13:30:00 I tried playing with alsa, but no luck yet. Mar 30 13:32:09 pavelm: sounds like OABI alsa running on EABI kernel Mar 30 13:38:55 xora: Hopefully not. Mar 30 13:41:36 openmoko: 03laforge * r1569 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-license.patch): add patch to display license (GPLv2) at commandline prompt Mar 30 13:43:36 What is the best way to get gsmd/dialer/etc sources? Should I pull them from svn? Mar 30 13:45:03 yes Mar 30 13:45:52 Are there svn pull instructions somewhere? I do not see them in the wiki :-( Mar 30 13:47:10 use OE Mar 30 13:47:12 ;D Mar 30 13:47:37 hrw: I'd acutally like to get it working on PC, for debugging. Mar 30 13:47:44 hrw: And OE scares me ;-) Mar 30 13:48:09 hehe Mar 30 13:48:16 pavelm: you are not alone ;) Mar 30 13:48:22 There needs to be an OE chrootable image for the scared. Mar 30 13:48:46 Where are gpsd sources? Not in projects.openmoko... Mar 30 13:49:59 gpsd.sourceforge.org IIRC Mar 30 13:52:00 Oops, sorry. I meant gsmd... and did wrong search, too. Mar 30 13:52:16 ...but neither gsmd is on projects.openmoko Mar 30 13:53:00 dunno Mar 30 13:53:21 pavelm: svn.openmoko.org Mar 30 13:53:56 pavelm: projects... is for projects around openmoko not the base system Mar 30 13:54:24 counter Mar 30 13:54:25 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:02:47 (6.960 +-7.0 days) (686,132) Mar 30 13:57:08 stefan: What is the magic command for pulling svn repository? Mar 30 13:57:24 ..aha, I know now. Mar 30 13:57:55 ...svn checkout http://svn.openmoko.org/ Mar 30 14:05:56 ...I created the page on openmoko svn. Mar 30 14:07:23 is the openmoko purchasable at the end of march? Mar 30 14:07:24 primz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 30 14:08:11 primz: Probably not. Mar 30 14:11:46 counter Mar 30 14:11:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 22:54:06 (6.954 +-7.0 days) (687,132) Mar 30 14:13:34 hi Mar 30 14:13:44 cool, six days Mar 30 14:15:33 six plutonian days :-) Mar 30 14:16:00 * SpeedEvil tries to remember what the plutonian day is. Mar 30 14:16:08 It's one-faced with Charon IIRC Mar 30 14:16:16 couple of days? Mar 30 14:16:28 153 hours Mar 30 14:16:34 sucks there is no wifi yet Mar 30 14:17:46 primz: Wifi is cool but this is supposed to be a phone... And it has bluetooth. Mar 30 14:20:02 yeah. i think of it as more of a blackberry type thing Mar 30 14:21:23 i think of it as the future Mar 30 14:21:43 the public transport is installing wlan here in helsinki, finland Mar 30 14:21:57 so the opportunities to use it are increasing all the time Mar 30 14:22:05 still no preorders Mar 30 14:22:07 there are city-wide networks aswell Mar 30 14:25:23 wifi is good for finding hotspots and skyping off of them Mar 30 14:25:32 ok. my neo will get simcard Mar 30 14:25:46 i pine for the day when phones dont have simcards or need carriers. they'll just be wimax handsets :) Mar 30 14:26:02 Wimax is unfortuantely hyped. Mar 30 14:26:39 If everyone used it, you'd get horrible interference between the AP you want to talk to, and the hundreds you diddn't. Mar 30 14:27:33 primz: i'm waiting for the day we are all in huge wireless meshes and the ap's move according to the meshes ;) Mar 30 14:28:33 Meshes don't work very dense at 2.4Ghz. Mar 30 14:28:56 The basic problem is that as you go out, the sum of distant nodes have a noise sum that goes to infinity. Mar 30 14:29:23 You need some sort of absorbance - which works very well at 60Ghz for example. Mar 30 14:29:58 nothing wrong with properly deployed umts networks ;) Mar 30 14:30:24 And meshes have the fundamental problem that if you have an average path length of 100 nodes, the best-case bandwidth is 1% of the nominal bandwidth, due to the other nodes. Mar 30 14:30:30 And it never gets that good. Mar 30 14:30:35 SpeedEvil: yeah, a friend of mine woeked at Vivato, who did phased-array antennas for wifi, and the protocol actually broke down once the ranges got big because of the number of nodes that could be seen Mar 30 14:30:53 60Ghz is an interesting case. Mar 30 14:31:02 As it's half absorbed in 400m. Mar 30 14:31:15 so you can get a finite number of nodes in distant view. Mar 30 14:31:29 phased array - properly done - helps too. Mar 30 14:31:59 SpeedEvil: I don't think that's a fundamental problem of meshes; I mean, what you said is true of course, but a smarter mesh would cut out intermediate nodes, and it seems unlikely to me that it'd take 100 hops to get to a hardwire Mar 30 14:32:08 speed: 10% of 54Mbps wifi is still 540kbps. Thats very good. Mar 30 14:32:55 The problem then arises that the nodes next to hardwires get swamped. Mar 30 14:33:20 speed: That "noise background" in wifi. ... I don't think thats big problem. Mar 30 14:33:31 Umm - yes, it is. Mar 30 14:33:42 It raises the power needed to talk to your local AP. Mar 30 14:33:47 or nearby node. Mar 30 14:33:54 speed: people are not distributed evenly over earth Mar 30 14:34:01 which means that everyone else needs to raise power to be still able to talk. Mar 30 14:34:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_svn]] [[Gsmd]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] Mar 30 14:34:11 No, it's only a town/city problem. Mar 30 14:34:36 And only then if you try to swap all wired for wireless - as some without understanding advocate. Mar 30 14:35:11 There simply isn't the bandwidth over the air to cope with demands. Mar 30 14:35:24 Unless it's managed carefully. Mar 30 14:36:38 The problem is that for 'nearby' nodes - you can do the collision avoidance thing. But once a node gets over a certain distance, you can't recieve it, so can't avoid collisions. It's just noise to you. Mar 30 14:37:00 Keeping some wires certainly makes sense. Mar 30 14:37:17 ...but these days my country is pretty well covered with wifi. Mar 30 14:37:36 Unfortunately most of that is not publicly available Mar 30 14:38:05 The problem only really arises when you get it publically available, and used. Mar 30 14:38:50 speed: people are still limited by battery power of their gadgets. Mar 30 14:39:37 speed: so I do not think people away from home can consume any big ammount of bandwidth. Mar 30 14:40:07 Wifi at the moment consumes some 10-20 times more than it could with more evolved hardware. Mar 30 14:40:15 for the same power out. Mar 30 14:40:50 The problem only gets very bad when you try to connect many fixed points with wifi. Mar 30 14:41:30 Has there been any discussion about which web browser would be appropriate for the Neo? Mar 30 14:41:55 anyone else having problems getting to svn.berlios.de? Mar 30 14:42:10 er, getting svn access to it? Mar 30 14:42:42 DukeOfURL: Firefox! :) Mar 30 14:44:33 speed: you want something smaller.minimo? Mar 30 14:49:22 I wonder if FIC should send Mozilla Foundation a P1 phone? Mar 30 14:50:37 DukeOfURL: Why? Firefox needs 1GB RAM at least for working. :) Mar 30 14:51:00 Not Firefox, Minimo. Mar 30 14:51:22 Still developed? Mar 30 14:51:23 We don't need all the XUL stuff on the Neo... Mar 30 14:51:28 * XorA has run firefox on 64M zaurus many times Mar 30 14:51:33 minimo is dead anyway Mar 30 14:51:40 why? Mar 30 14:53:04 oh, looks like someone woke the project again cool Mar 30 14:54:34 XorA - My home box used to have 128MB, worked with firefox and seamonkey. Mar 30 14:54:43 To be semi-serious, I've actually used FF for some months on 128M Mar 30 14:54:54 And still use 1.5 on 196 Mar 30 14:55:16 I use 2.* on 256 and run lots of other stuff in paralell. Mar 30 14:55:35 And with 'mousegestures' it even will work fairly well with a touchscreen. Mar 30 14:55:49 webkit ftw! Mar 30 14:56:03 * XorA refuses to do any more mozilla debugging though to get minimo/firefox working on openmoko Mar 30 14:56:06 Ok guys 1GB was unfair, but it still sucks a lot of ram. :) Mar 30 14:56:10 it makes my eyes bleed Mar 30 14:57:55 Fundamentally - it's not a bad idea - a JS browser. Mar 30 14:58:05 The problem is there are no working dev tools. Mar 30 14:58:17 does someone got imei from his neo? Mar 30 14:58:28 you can't find out how much memory your change is actually using. Mar 30 14:58:40 hrw: most phones have it under the battery cover Mar 30 14:58:47 dunno... Mar 30 14:59:00 Isn't there an AT-command for it? Mar 30 14:59:47 and again, more about the mesh idea. i believe it will be done in the future, and it will be the standard. the technology just isn't there yet. and also, i'm not saying it's done with any specific technology Mar 30 14:59:50 bye, heading for matrix. Mar 30 15:01:43 Elrond: it is. Mar 30 15:01:59 Elrond: but I'm getting "" instead of imei Mar 30 15:02:16 hrw - *ARG* Mar 30 15:02:41 hrw: well that stops someone cloning it :-) Mar 30 15:02:41 hrw - *duck* Get a 10GHz logic analyser ;o) Mar 30 15:02:59 hmm.. someone remember AT to set pin? Mar 30 15:03:03 of the form 350600/80/338251/7? Mar 30 15:04:42 nice.. Mar 30 15:04:47 AT+CFUN=1 Mar 30 15:04:47 +CME ERROR: 10 Mar 30 15:05:00 CME ERROR 10 == Sim not inserted Mar 30 15:05:22 Huh. Mar 30 15:05:25 What's CFUN? Mar 30 15:06:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Mar 30 15:17:39 hmm.. I need gammu on neo ;) Mar 30 15:24:31 hello, who from russia !? Mar 30 15:31:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo/ru]] Mar 30 15:31:51 aloril :) It`s my work ") Mar 30 16:17:32 ,/48 Mar 30 16:17:43 gtg cu Mar 30 16:28:04 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC/ru]] [[Main_Page/ru]] Mar 30 17:06:19 counter Mar 30 17:06:20 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 21:26:50 (6.894 +-6.9 days) (688,132) Mar 30 17:19:23 Quiet eve here today Mar 30 17:31:31 ETA==uncertainty (uncertainty just has less digits ;-) Mar 30 17:33:54 counter Mar 30 17:33:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 21:13:02 (6.884 +-6.9 days) (689,132) Mar 30 17:35:00 i assume counter means how long until the phone is released? Mar 30 17:35:01 gonnafail: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 30 17:35:16 yes. Mar 30 17:35:19 In theory. Mar 30 17:35:38 now thats a release only for testers and programmers correct? Mar 30 17:35:57 Anyone can buy it. Mar 30 17:36:22 gonnafail: It will be possible to call with it, but it will be far from finished Mar 30 17:36:28 it is not still deployed for mass market Mar 30 17:36:51 oh i am fine with that, i am basically looking for a dev platform to play with Mar 30 17:37:06 Same here :) Mar 30 17:37:25 is it going to be sold off the site? or where? Mar 30 17:37:57 yes - details in the announce Mar 30 17:38:09 I think mickeyl or LaF0rge said they were working on the shop pages right now Mar 30 17:38:21 Not "they", but the web design guys Mar 30 17:39:22 ok thanks, i first read about this probably a year or so ago and kinda forgot about it, just came back to me today so have been readin through the site for about an hour now trying to catch up on whats going on Mar 30 17:39:52 Was a few delays with the first hardware, but now things seem to be working ok Mar 30 17:40:24 http://planet.openmoko.org/ is a good news source Mar 30 17:40:54 i coulda sworn when i first read about it there was wifi on it, but now it doesnt. did it ever have wifi or am i imagining that? Mar 30 17:41:13 you imagined that Mar 30 17:41:24 I guess they always wanted wifi, but no one wanted to sell it to them Mar 30 17:41:26 I think you confuse the neo with the ROAD Mar 30 17:41:37 haha, allright thats what i figured Mar 30 17:41:41 since the news about the neo isn't a year old Mar 30 17:41:49 November last year? Mar 30 17:41:56 the ROAD? Mar 30 17:41:57 e.g. nothing was know in november last year Mar 30 17:45:19 so anyone know why they chose to leave out wifi? Mar 30 17:45:56 gonnafail: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko Mar 30 17:47:27 thanks that answered all my questions Mar 30 17:49:24 counter Mar 30 17:49:24 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 21:05:18 (6.879 +-6.9 days) (690,132) Mar 30 17:51:28 hmm, 6.879 days with a tolerance of 6.9 days? Mar 30 17:51:29 kiney: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Mar 30 17:51:43 that's strange Mar 30 17:57:27 Not strange, just a high degree of uncertainty. Mar 30 17:58:35 heh, well, it's certainly not going to be 6.879 - 6.9 days ;) Mar 30 17:58:38 kinda brokenish though Mar 30 17:58:42 right Mar 30 17:58:53 and it was originally +- 7 days Mar 30 17:59:34 the problem is that it needs to recompute the +- part now that we're inside it Mar 30 17:59:43 Oh come on - rounding. I'd agree it's broken if it said 6.879 +- 6.900, but it's 6.9; there's a diff. Mar 30 18:00:12 but the 6.9 already is not exact Mar 30 18:00:25 I think what's meant was "less than 7) Mar 30 18:00:43 tomorrow it shouldn't be 6 +- 7, it should be 6.5 +- 6.5 Mar 30 18:01:33 lol Mar 30 18:02:02 I guess given the tolerance is so high, one can safely argue that the precision of the fist figure is waay to high; my old engineering professor would take a letter grade off for that mistake. Mar 30 18:02:04 (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte Re: Asterisk on Openmoko Mar 30 18:02:29 s/fist/first/ -- my english prof would have taken a letter grade off for that speeling misteak. Mar 30 18:03:24 "misteak"? Mar 30 18:03:46 ... Mar 30 18:03:58 So it should be 6.9 +- 6.9. Can we get a standard deviation with that stat? Mar 30 18:04:46 it probably shouldn't recalculate the error margin Mar 30 18:05:04 it's not like the uncertainty is decreasing Mar 30 18:05:17 mwester at? Mar 30 18:05:35 yes, the uncertainty ist decreasing Mar 30 18:05:54 all the time that is passing now, for shure ist NOT the release-date Mar 30 18:06:04 so the time-window is getting smaller Mar 30 18:06:14 sure, but it's not like in 6.9 days the uncertainty is zero Mar 30 18:06:20 no Mar 30 18:06:27 then ist -0 +6.9 Mar 30 18:06:37 it's not symmetrical Mar 30 18:06:42 the Q is, is it really max two weeks! :) Mar 30 18:06:43 woglinde: at what? Mar 30 18:07:25