**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 06 03:00:00 2007
Apr 06 04:37:15 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r78 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (4 files): Removed obsolete patches
Apr 06 04:47:05 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: ping
Apr 06 04:47:36 <rwhitby> You've forgotten to commit the definition of CHR_IOCTL_MODEM_SET_AFC in vl.h
Apr 06 04:47:47 <rwhitby> So qemu-neo1973 fails to build now.
Apr 06 04:47:55 <rwhitby> Let me take a stab at fixing it ...
Apr 06 04:48:37 * rwhitby guesses at "#define CHR_IOCTL_MODEM_SET_AFC       9
Apr 06 04:48:38 <rwhitby> " assuming they are just allocated monotonically as required.
Apr 06 04:52:08 <rwhitby> mickey|zzZZzz: could you please grant me commit write access to the qemu tree?  balrog-kun asked me to commit directly while he was away, and the build is currently broken.
Apr 06 04:53:31 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r79 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (qemu-fix-missing-ioctl-definition.patch series): add definition for CHR_IOCTL_MODEM_SET_AFC (guessing that it should be 9) to fix the broken build.
Apr 06 04:54:16 <rwhitby> ok, mokomakefile will fix the build until it's fixed upstream (either by balrog-kun or by mickey|zzZZzz giving me commit access to that area)
Apr 06 05:14:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[Input_Method]]
Apr 06 05:34:47 <CoreDump|afk> !ombug 406
Apr 06 05:34:49 <cdbot2> * * Bug 406, Status: RESOLVED (DUPLICATE), Created: Unknown
Apr 06 05:34:50 <cdbot2> * * eric_liu1(AT)fic.com.tw: neo1973 isn't trun on ,because battery volt low.(Use it some time later)
Apr 06 05:34:51 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=406
Apr 06 06:01:29 <high-rez> counter
Apr 06 06:01:29 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 14:59:15 (9.624 +-9.6 days) (768,147)
Apr 06 06:12:34 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r80 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (qemu-flash-alternate-location-fixes.patch series): qemu: Fixed flash.sh to work properly when given an alternate image directory
Apr 06 06:15:03 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r81 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added download-images, flash-qemu-official, flash-qemu-local, run-qemu and run-qemu-snapshot targets
Apr 06 06:16:03 <rwhitby> ok, that completes qemu support in MokoMakefile.  "make qemu" will build qemu, download the latest official images, flash those images, and run qemu - all without further user intervention (assuming lynx and netpbm are installed).
Apr 06 06:20:28 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: oops, i had forgotten to commit one small change (hence the missing definition)
Apr 06 06:20:39 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: very nice
Apr 06 06:20:56 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03andrew * r1673 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/s3c2410.c: Send MODEM_HANDSHAKE ioctl when AFC is enabled for an uart.
Apr 06 06:21:13 * balrog-kun really goes now
Apr 06 06:21:17 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: do you want to pick up the flash.sh patch now too?
Apr 06 06:21:27 <rwhitby> it makes the alternate image location actually work :-)
Apr 06 06:21:42 <rwhitby> (it just symlinks the alternate location files into the local openmoko dir)
Apr 06 06:21:50 <balrog-kun> ah
Apr 06 06:22:04 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: why is it needed? had i messes up some paths?
Apr 06 06:22:34 <balrog-kun> i'll try checking out the makemokofile tree
Apr 06 06:22:38 <rwhitby> yeah, some stuff was only looking in script_dir_relative for files that were in the alternate image directory given as the argument.
Apr 06 06:22:57 <rwhitby> Look in http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/
Apr 06 06:23:32 <rwhitby> I also made flash.sh symlink the kernel to "openmoko-kernel.bin" so the makefile's run-qemu target could find it easily.
Apr 06 06:24:28 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: also, it turns out I only have svn write access to the trunk/oe tree, not the trunk/src tree.
Apr 06 06:24:49 <rwhitby> (I'll need to talk to mickey|zzZZzz about that)
Apr 06 06:25:32 <balrog-kun> oh, right
Apr 06 06:27:01 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r82 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (qemu-fix-missing-ioctl-definition.patch series): Removed qemu ioctl patch - fixed upstream
Apr 06 06:27:35 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: if you think the openmoko-kernel.bin addition is a good one, you could change the message that flash.sh outputs (it would make it easier for people to type in or script the starting command)
Apr 06 06:29:17 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: okay, good idea
Apr 06 06:41:01 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: i'm unable to test if the flash.sh parameter works at this moment, but i'll commit
Apr 06 06:42:11 <rwhitby> I've tested the parameter, and you should be able to see that the patch is non-intrusive for the non-parameter case.
Apr 06 06:43:48 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03andrew * r1674 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/flash.sh: Merge changes from MokoMakefile (Rod Whitby) - fix the flash.sh parameter.
Apr 06 06:44:12 <balrog-kun> yeah, but i could have broken it :p
Apr 06 06:44:20 <balrog-kun> ok, really gotta pack things and run
Apr 06 06:46:02 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: testing now
Apr 06 06:46:21 <rwhitby> if there's any problems, I'll just patch it again anyway.  Have fun, wherever you're going.
Apr 06 06:48:30 <dotme1> counter
Apr 06 06:48:30 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 14:35:44 (9.608 +-9.6 days) (769,148)
Apr 06 06:48:47 <Any_Key> morning palls
Apr 06 06:48:56 <dotme1> mornin'
Apr 06 06:49:39 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: looks good
Apr 06 06:50:53 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r83 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (qemu-flash-alternate-location-fixes.patch series): Removed qemu patches (applied upstream)
Apr 06 07:06:54 <rwhitby> | make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svnnow-r1_1669/openmoko-rssreader/data'
Apr 06 07:06:54 <rwhitby> | make[3]: *** No rule to make target `RSS.png', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
Apr 06 07:07:13 <rwhitby> anyone else seeing that?
Apr 06 07:08:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]]
Apr 06 07:29:18 <sannes> counter
Apr 06 07:29:19 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 14:15:20 (9.594 +-9.6 days) (770,148)
Apr 06 07:40:20 <PBeck> hi
Apr 06 07:49:14 * rwhitby blogs about how to build and run the emulator with one command.
Apr 06 07:50:56 <nibbler_de> rwhitby: where? may you /msg me the url when you're done?
Apr 06 08:00:15 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 06 08:07:18 <aloril> (script) planet: Rod Whitby: OpenMoko Emulator ready for general use http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/openmoko/openmoko-emulator.html
Apr 06 08:20:42 <empty_mind> when i try to execute download.sh for qemu-neo1973, i get an error saying "lynx: Invalid Option: -listonly" and it fails to download any images too. ANy idea whats wrong ?
Apr 06 08:21:49 <rwhitby> Hmm - I thought balrog-kun fixed that.  Sure you got the latest update?
Apr 06 08:22:07 <rwhitby> nibbler_de: I assume you got it at planet.openmoko.org
Apr 06 08:22:26 <nibbler_de> ah, ok ;) sure.
Apr 06 08:51:55 <pxpt> I am quite excited by this phone
Apr 06 08:52:38 <pxpt> I have been using Windows Mobile based phones for a couple of years and I am totally fed up with the lack of response and crashes etc
Apr 06 08:52:44 <XorA> :-D
Apr 06 08:54:34 <pxpt> In my opinion Windows Mobile is a totally unsuitable OS for a phone.
Apr 06 08:55:32 <pxpt> There are only two things going for it - the amount of software available and the ease in which Outlook can syncronise its data
Apr 06 08:55:58 <pxpt> (although the less I say about ActiveSync the better)
Apr 06 08:56:13 <XorA> and NetFront
Apr 06 08:57:08 <pxpt> I use Opera
Apr 06 08:57:16 * XorA shudders
Apr 06 08:58:00 <pxpt> Well with a 640x480 sized screen the horizontal scrolling is not a problem
Apr 06 08:58:31 <pxpt> (I have an MDA-Pro - and a Mio A701)
Apr 06 08:59:11 <hrw> mdapro == which HTC?
Apr 06 08:59:43 <pxpt> I think it is the HTC Universal
Apr 06 08:59:54 <hrw> ok
Apr 06 09:00:35 <hrw> in Linux world it is easier to tell "HTC thiS" then 'mda pro 7, xeten m202' etc
Apr 06 09:00:56 <pxpt> Ok :-)
Apr 06 09:02:14 <pxpt> I'll have to download the OpenMoko Emulator and have a play sometime this weekend
Apr 06 09:03:31 <buz> i get /home/buz/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/configure: 363: Syntax error: Bad fd number when trying make qemu with mokomakefile?
Apr 06 09:04:06 <Hopscotch> for me it explodes with compiler errors
Apr 06 09:04:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Meet_the_Core_Team]] [[Main_Page]] [[OpenMoko]] [[Development_resources]]
Apr 06 09:04:31 <pxpt> Hmm - so it looks like there are problems
Apr 06 09:04:39 <rwhitby> buz, Hopscotch: full pastebin please
Apr 06 09:05:51 <goxboxlive> Any one remeber the name if the rotate applet suplied in gpe? It also where suplied in opnemoko for a month or so (angstrom)
Apr 06 09:06:21 <buz> rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/426626
Apr 06 09:06:37 <buz> (i have gcc-3.4 installed, on ubuntu feisty)
Apr 06 09:08:17 <koen> goxboxlive: matchbox-panel-hacks iirc
Apr 06 09:08:34 <goxboxlive> koen: gracias
Apr 06 09:08:58 <koen> I'm not sure if it will work with matchbox-panel-2, though
Apr 06 09:10:18 <goxboxlive> me neither, but i want to use it in x11-image. It seems like openmoko-dialer work bether in x11 image than the openmoko one. starnge though
Apr 06 09:10:26 <goxboxlive> should be the same
Apr 06 09:11:22 <rwhitby> buz: no idea - try changing /bin/sh to /bin/sh -x on the first line of the configure script, and then run again.
Apr 06 09:13:40 <buz> mhh maybe that is one of ubuntu's dash screw ups
Apr 06 09:13:42 <Hopscotch> rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/426637
Apr 06 09:13:48 <buz> i'm gonna dump dash one day
Apr 06 09:14:30 <buz> yeah with bash it works
Apr 06 09:18:06 <Hopscotch> rwhitby: that's for make qemu
Apr 06 09:22:05 <rwhitby> buz: bound to be dash
Apr 06 09:22:22 <Hopscotch> the next is for make update-makefile; make update; make setup; make openmoko-devel-image:
Apr 06 09:22:29 <buz> i still dont entirely understand wtf they use dash
Apr 06 09:22:37 <Hopscotch> | make[3]: Entering directory `/mnt/devel/cd/Projekte/openmoko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svnnow-r1_1669/openmoko-rssreader/data'
Apr 06 09:22:41 <Hopscotch> | make[3]: *** No rule to make target `RSS.png', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
Apr 06 09:22:47 <rwhitby> buz: just to irritate their users and prove a point.
Apr 06 09:23:02 <rwhitby> Hopscotch: yeah, I got that one too - looks like someone forgot to check in a file.
Apr 06 09:27:27 <Hopscotch> ok, then i'll retry in a few hours
Apr 06 09:29:49 <buz> ok qemu is booting
Apr 06 09:32:12 <hrw> buz: dash is smaller and faster
Apr 06 09:32:22 <rwhitby> Hopscotch: dunno about the qemu error.
Apr 06 09:32:34 <buz> hrw: and hopelessly incompatible
Apr 06 09:32:48 <rwhitby> Hopscotch: can you try with gcc 3.4? (that's what I used)
Apr 06 09:33:40 <hrw> buz: no. dash is POSIX sh compatible
Apr 06 09:33:53 <buz> hrw: yeah, but nobody really uses posix sh
Apr 06 09:33:55 <buz> most use bash
Apr 06 09:33:57 <hrw> buz: its not dash fault that for most of people sh == bash
Apr 06 09:34:15 <buz> but it's ubuntu's fault for using something known to cause all sorts of issues
Apr 06 09:34:17 <rwhitby> yeah, people should put /bin/bash at the top of their script
Apr 06 09:34:19 <Hopscotch> rwhitby: hmpf - my gcc32 is a fake: gcc32 -v -> gcc version 4.1.2 (Gentoo 4.1.2)
Apr 06 09:34:39 <rwhitby> Hopscotch: heh - how on earth does that happen?
Apr 06 09:35:13 * rwhitby knew that you can never trust a Gentoo installation to have anything remotely standard about it.
Apr 06 09:35:24 <Hopscotch> i think the idea is that gcc32 is a gcc for 32bits...
Apr 06 09:35:56 <Hopscotch> burn, gentoo, burn
Apr 06 09:36:18 <aloril> (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: qemu-neo1973
Apr 06 09:40:44 <rwhitby> ok, so core team is using frozen OE version.
Apr 06 09:40:56 <rwhitby> now to work out how to reliably go backwards with an OE checkout.
Apr 06 09:42:17 <koen> rwhitby: you can't do that reliably without deleting everything
Apr 06 09:46:17 <DukeOfURL> hello
Apr 06 09:49:04 <DukeOfURL> build fails on target RSS.png
Apr 06 09:49:49 <DukeOfURL> what am I doing to catch this?
Apr 06 09:52:23 <zecke> DukeOfURL: fix  the Makefile.am, send a patch, be happy
Apr 06 09:55:09 <buz> counter
Apr 06 09:55:09 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 13:02:25 (9.543 +-9.5 days) (771,148)
Apr 06 09:55:22 <buz> any word on the schedule for the summer upgrade?
Apr 06 09:55:31 <rwhitby> summer is finished
Apr 06 09:55:42 <rwhitby> (in the southern hemisphere at least)
Apr 06 09:55:54 <rwhitby> I'm not gonna wait another 9 months for an upgrade.
Apr 06 09:56:49 <drath> hehehe
Apr 06 09:57:54 <MetaMorfoziS> is the hardware changing after p1?
Apr 06 09:59:32 <drath> there should be an upgrade after P1, called P1+, which might bring a faster CPU and possibly WiFi, but none of this is certain
Apr 06 10:20:49 <SpeedEvil> The CPU speed is more certain.
Apr 06 10:21:15 <koen> 600024789230GHz!
Apr 06 10:23:08 <mjr> the cpu has been talked about in fairly certain terms, yes
Apr 06 10:23:36 <ewon> ONE POINT TWENTY THREE GIGAWATTS
Apr 06 10:24:06 <mjr> isn't it 1.21?
Apr 06 10:24:57 <ewon> possibly
Apr 06 10:25:04 <ewon> I'm on a lot of drugs
Apr 06 10:25:09 <ewon> wisdom teeth removal is for winners
Apr 06 10:25:12 <mjr> I see
Apr 06 10:25:13 <ewon> I'll be quiet now
Apr 06 10:25:23 <mjr> winners use drugs, yes
Apr 06 10:25:38 <mjr> as xevil tells us
Apr 06 10:25:42 * SpeedEvil slurps his coffee, and decrys those that use drugs.
Apr 06 10:26:25 <DukeOfURL> SpeedEvil has never been to the dentist?
Apr 06 10:26:50 <SpeedEvil> That was a joke - coffee is a drug.
Apr 06 10:26:56 <DukeOfURL> The real meaning of pain,,,,
Apr 06 10:27:07 * SpeedEvil should probably make use of the <joke> tag.
Apr 06 10:31:37 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03zecke * r1675 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/data/Makefile.am: openmoko-rssreader: Adjust the Makefile.am to the renaming of the application icon to fix #427, #428
Apr 06 10:59:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]]
Apr 06 11:37:03 <empty_mind> rwhitby, you have built qemu target in mokomakefile ?
Apr 06 11:40:56 <XorA> got P0 phones need a CPU boost
Apr 06 11:43:15 <Elrond> XorA - Huh?
Apr 06 11:45:43 <XorA> s/got/god/
Apr 06 11:45:43 <apt> XorA meant: god P0 phones need a CPU boost
Apr 06 11:46:38 <thomasg__> XorA, why?
Apr 06 11:46:45 <koen> XorA: more than that
Apr 06 11:46:56 <DukeOfURL> has anyone tried PyGTK on P0?
Apr 06 11:47:04 <XorA> that fancy gtk+ interface is painfully slow
Apr 06 11:47:06 <koen> XorA: the dialer is even slow on a 600MHz armv5 cpu with an accelerated X server
Apr 06 11:47:23 <hrw> thomasg__: it is too slow to use
Apr 06 11:47:50 <thomasg__> hm, hoped 200 mhz would be enough for this device
Apr 06 11:48:11 <Elrond> Hoped so too.
Apr 06 11:48:31 <Elrond> That's about a Pentium at 133MHz, right?
Apr 06 11:48:36 <thomasg__> currently I have a n7710 with 640x320 and 200mhz arm9. it is really slow, but thats symbian
Apr 06 11:49:50 <koen> thomasg__: 200MHz is enough is you leave at the zillion pixmaps
Apr 06 11:51:16 <thomasg__> so you dont recommend to get a p1 device?
Apr 06 11:52:00 * XorA suspects it will work nicely with a optimised theme
Apr 06 11:52:36 <Elrond> Anyone knows, what speed the RISC-PC's arm used?
Apr 06 11:53:25 <roh> Elrond similar clocking.. 60-233mhz afaik
Apr 06 11:53:48 <hrw> Elrond: "CPU: Dual-processor slots, accepting the following chips on a special daughterboard: ARM6 at 30 MHz or 33 MHz, ARM7 at 40 MHz, StrongARM at 203 MHz, 233 MHz or 300 MHz+. 486 and 586-based co-processors at up to 133 MHz, and DSP chips (third party) were also available. A "Hydra" multi-processor development system from Simtec allowed an extra four ARM6 or ARM7 CPU cards, mainly using the Linux OS." (wikipedia)
Apr 06 11:54:39 <Elrond> hrw - Ahh. :)
Apr 06 11:55:08 <Elrond> Hmm, when I saw those thingies in the shop, they seemed quite fast (okay, they have a dedicated graphics card).
Apr 06 11:55:31 <XorA> RiscPC was quite a cool toy, pity Acorn were a bunch of hairy acorns
Apr 06 11:55:38 <Elrond> roh - Thanks too.
Apr 06 11:56:20 <XorA> although my friends RiscPC with 486 card did make my pentium owning friend cry
Apr 06 11:56:53 <hrw> XorA: did riscpc were available outside UK?
Apr 06 11:57:52 <XorA> hrw: probably not, Acorn were morons
Apr 06 11:57:58 <Elrond> hrw - They sold it in a normal computer retail shop here in Germany. They even had some acorn sales people explaining things.
Apr 06 11:58:17 <XorA> Elrond: there was german version of BBC Master as well?
Apr 06 11:58:58 <Elrond> XorA - I don't know. I never saw acorn before. I only read in some computer mag about the archimedes.
Apr 06 12:00:22 <thomasg__> hrw: apples old ppcs was also risc machines
Apr 06 12:00:45 <hrw> thomasg__: I know what CHRP was ;D
Apr 06 12:01:28 <Elrond> I even liked the GUI at the risc-pc days. it was quite nice. Hey, that cmdline at the buttom was also fun. ;)  (one could play in the retail shop with the toy.)
Apr 06 12:01:30 <XorA> I heard rumours that some UK company still makes RiscPC boxes and still sells RiscOS
Apr 06 12:02:16 <Elrond> XorA - I've read something like that on wikipedia. try to search for risc-os. There even seems to be some opensourcing idea for risc-os.
Apr 06 12:07:37 <Elrond> So instead of linux we should use risc-os on the phone ;o)
Apr 06 12:08:12 <XorA> Elrond: god no
Apr 06 12:08:44 <xkr47> LOAD "UBOOT",8,1
Apr 06 12:10:06 * XorA wonders if it even has a working tcp/ip stack yet, when I stayed in a flat where one of the girls owned a RiscPC is caused havoc
Apr 06 12:10:47 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1676 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-calculator/autogen.sh: add autogen.sh script
Apr 06 12:12:20 <Elrond> XorA - ;o)
Apr 06 12:12:42 <Elrond> mickey|zzZZzz - Greet Sean from the channel. :-)
Apr 06 12:19:38 * koen reads http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.kernel/30970
Apr 06 12:56:23 <tigert> Sean needs to irc :)
Apr 06 12:58:19 <koen> he did at one point
Apr 06 12:58:38 <drath> heh, I'm sure he'd get a lot of work done that way ;)
Apr 06 13:02:24 <Elrond> irc is the best way to distract one from work. ;)
Apr 06 13:02:48 <Elrond> Guess why I go in the library, when I have some non-pc work to do. ;o)
Apr 06 13:03:40 <Elrond> koen - That article suggests, that there is a third device on the road?
Apr 06 13:04:49 <koen> Elrond: it suggests harald is doing kernel work for more devices
Apr 06 13:05:47 <koen> I wouldn't be suprised if their mediaplayer will start using kernel 2.6 as well
Apr 06 13:06:11 <Elrond> mediaplayer?
Apr 06 13:06:50 <koen> they have mediaplayers as well
Apr 06 13:06:55 <koen> mips based
Apr 06 13:07:52 <Elrond> Ahh
Apr 06 13:19:17 <hrw|gone> koen: think about v2?
Apr 06 13:19:36 * hrw|gone cannot tell more about >p1 devices
Apr 06 13:20:44 <Vitaly> counter
Apr 06 13:20:45 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 2 days 11:19:37 (9.472 +-9.5 days) (772,148)
Apr 06 13:21:34 <koen> hrw|gone: it can be anything :)
Apr 06 13:40:32 <Elrond> koen - Oh, you mean the openmoko washing machine, right? ;)
Apr 06 13:40:58 <koen> yes :)
Apr 06 13:42:30 <Elrond> counter washing machine
Apr 06 14:51:08 <neostrider> hello folks
Apr 06 14:54:22 <neostrider> is openmoko supporting SDL apps?
Apr 06 14:54:23 <aloril> neostrider: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 06 14:54:55 <mjr> yes, sdl is available
Apr 06 14:55:04 <neostrider> great
Apr 06 14:55:15 <neostrider> im doing games for maemo and I want it to run on openmoko too
Apr 06 14:55:28 <mjr> nice
Apr 06 14:55:30 <neostrider> how is the toolchain like?
Apr 06 14:55:43 <mjr> haven't had time to check that yet
Apr 06 14:55:58 <mjr> openembedded
Apr 06 14:56:08 <mjr> anyway, off now
Apr 06 14:57:51 <neostrider> ok
Apr 06 14:57:53 <neostrider> thanks
Apr 06 15:55:20 <filippo> I  get an error in mokomakefile making qemu can i post it here?
Apr 06 15:55:20 <aloril> filippo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 06 16:46:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[Hardware]] [[Main_Page]] [[Category:Hardware]]
Apr 06 16:52:15 <PBeck> servus
Apr 06 16:54:14 <neostrider> hello folks
Apr 06 17:06:37 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1677 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (3 files in 3 dirs): oe: refine openmoko-base and tasks to include more stuff
Apr 06 17:07:12 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1678 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-rssreader_svn.bb: oe: bump openmoko-rssreader PR
Apr 06 17:11:55 <Anandir> Hi everyone.
Apr 06 17:13:07 <noidd> hey ananananandir
Apr 06 17:13:36 <Anandir> :)
Apr 06 17:13:52 <Anandir> Did you know if, and how, OpenMoko will be shipped in Europe?
Apr 06 17:13:52 <aloril> Anandir: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 06 17:14:47 <SpeedEvil> They are going to use trained storks.
Apr 06 17:15:04 <SpeedEvil> They drop them on little parachutes, when the GPS makes them go beep.
Apr 06 17:17:13 <alphaone> So we'll have a decline in new babies then since they will be busy otherwise?
Apr 06 17:17:53 <Anandir> OpenMoko, will be shipped in europe?
Apr 06 17:19:30 <koen> Anandir: read the faq aloril linked
Apr 06 17:19:50 <Anandir> Done. But i'ven't find it.
Apr 06 17:22:10 <noidd> anan: yes to Europe.
Apr 06 17:22:28 <Anandir> noidd: That's a good news :).
Apr 06 17:23:44 <noidd> with the exception of Italy, there is a law in italy which prohibits the sale of hardware which specifically runs open source software.  Something about old labour laws I think.
Apr 06 17:24:11 <neostrider> noidd, how there is such a law?
Apr 06 17:24:13 <Anandir> noidd: D'oh >_>.
Apr 06 17:24:14 <neostrider> lobby?
Apr 06 17:24:18 <noidd> Just kidding
Apr 06 17:24:20 <noidd> :-D
Apr 06 17:24:34 <Anandir> noidd: xD
Apr 06 17:24:42 <neostrider> its already april 6th =-P
Apr 06 17:24:59 <Anandir> neo: Maybe he see I'm italian ;P
Apr 06 17:25:22 <noidd> *** Anandir is n=Anandir@host202-127-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it (Giacomo)
Apr 06 17:25:31 <noidd> yeah - I looked and felt evil ;-)
Apr 06 17:25:32 <Anandir> ;P
Apr 06 17:25:41 <jeddy3> hehehe
Apr 06 17:25:48 <Anandir> noidd: Are you English :P?
Apr 06 17:26:54 <noidd> No, Welsh
Apr 06 17:27:01 <noidd> but I live in the US now.
Apr 06 17:27:04 <Anandir> noidd: :).
Apr 06 17:27:09 <Anandir> noidd: Ooooh^^
Apr 06 17:27:17 <noidd> which is why my english grammar is going to hell.
Apr 06 17:27:41 <Anandir> noidd: Ahahahahahah xD. The america's grammar it'sn't the best one :P.
Apr 06 17:28:03 <noidd> I'm picking up gramatical patterns which are common in the South
Apr 06 17:28:13 <noidd> eg:  "I'm fixing to be"
Apr 06 17:28:13 <Anandir> noidd: Anyway. I'm glad to know OpenMoko also come in Italy :).
Apr 06 17:28:22 <Anandir> noidd: Lol xD
Apr 06 17:28:46 <noidd> anywhere in the World my friend, and there will be a European reseller so you won't need to deal with customs like the P0 peeps
Apr 06 17:30:14 <Anandir> noidd: :). I hope the price don't grow so much in the process >_>. Usually that's what happen :S
Apr 06 17:31:31 <jeddy3> Anandir, so true
Apr 06 17:31:58 <noidd> I have faith that the price will remain the same
Apr 06 17:32:04 <Vegar> uhm
Apr 06 17:32:10 <noidd> although their costs have gone up hugely I'm sure.
Apr 06 17:32:11 <Vegar> what about non-EU european countries?
Apr 06 17:32:24 <noidd> You can buy it anywhere Vegar
Apr 06 17:32:32 <Vegar> I was thinking about customs
Apr 06 17:32:36 <noidd> the question is whether you'll have issues with customs
Apr 06 17:32:45 <noidd> I got my P0 phone through customs with no issues
Apr 06 17:32:49 <noidd> as did 99% of devs
Apr 06 17:32:57 <noidd> I think one dev in .fi had issues
Apr 06 17:33:04 <Vegar> ok
Apr 06 17:33:08 <empty_mind> what is a proper way to add a package to openmoko?
Apr 06 17:33:26 <Vegar> noidd: any idea if there will be hardware changes between P1+ and P2?
Apr 06 17:33:27 <cjb-> I've known a few Australian 'dealers' who like to charge AU$900 for a US$240/AU$320 device. :/
Apr 06 17:34:35 <DukeOfURL> isn't capitalism wonderful?
Apr 06 17:35:15 <theholyduck> yay usa yay captialism
Apr 06 17:35:18 <theholyduck> ?
Apr 06 17:35:18 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 17:38:00 <cjb-> (I was all excited at finding a local dealer for the Alphasmart Dana 'PalmOS laptop' here in AU... Until I discovered the guy who runs the business from his garage and supplies the Dana to Education Depts was taking advantage of their local-dealer policy in a very gross way... :/)
Apr 06 17:38:21 <Anandir> :S
Apr 06 17:38:55 <neostrider> palmos laptop?
Apr 06 17:39:24 <cjb-> neo: http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html
Apr 06 17:40:41 <cjb-> It's pretty-much a Palm M105 w/ full-keyboard, more RAM, and 2 SD card slots..  I'm a long-time Palm weenie.. (My interest in the 'Moko came after the disappointing&crippled Treo680..)
Apr 06 17:42:03 <neostrider> cool
Apr 06 17:42:27 <neostrider> much like my good 'n' old Cassiopeia A-11
Apr 06 17:42:46 <cjb-> "Who needs an OLPC?" :)
Apr 06 17:42:57 <Stephmw> Kids!
Apr 06 17:43:06 <neostrider> cjb...its too expensive for what is is
Apr 06 17:43:08 <Moo^^> geeks!
Apr 06 17:43:12 <neostrider> no no
Apr 06 17:43:18 <koen> Stephmw: that would skew the statistics
Apr 06 17:43:19 <neostrider> OLPC is not a tech project
Apr 06 17:43:25 <koen> Stephmw: "one kid" ;)
Apr 06 17:43:36 <Moo^^> neostrider: it isn't. but every good will order one in any case :)
Apr 06 17:43:44 <Stephmw> koen: didn't you like the proto they were showing around FOSDEM?
Apr 06 17:44:08 <koen> Stephmw: I didn't see the proto at fosdem
Apr 06 17:44:15 <koen> but J5's one was pretty nice
Apr 06 17:44:16 <neostrider> I would love to have one
Apr 06 17:44:26 <neostrider> but I guess its better to leave it to the kids
Apr 06 17:44:51 <Stephmw> koen: shame, I got to see it
Apr 06 17:45:07 <Stephmw> koen: it fitted really well with the Neo's toy appearance :)
Apr 06 17:45:30 <cjb-> neo: it's like the old Tandy M100-- doing a simple job well can be worth the (tax-deductable work-expense..) price. imho the Dana could do it for me at $300.. but not the $900 the parasite was wanting. 
Apr 06 17:48:09 <empty_mind> what this error means http://pastebin.ca/427210
Apr 06 17:51:40 <Stephmw> coding question... what's the most efficient way of storing a large number of words? (as in a dictionary)...
Apr 06 17:52:04 <Anandir> In memory?
Apr 06 17:52:20 <Stephmw> and disk
Apr 06 17:52:26 <Stephmw> but memory first :)
Apr 06 17:52:35 <Anandir> Stephmw: Well
Apr 06 17:52:57 <Anandir> Stephmw: An Hashtable is the data structure with the best search speed.
Apr 06 17:53:04 <XorA|gone> libsqlite3
Apr 06 17:53:20 <Anandir> Yep. For the disk, but for the memory?
Apr 06 17:53:32 <DukeOfURL> list of pointers
Apr 06 17:53:39 <cjb-> sequentually or randomly searched?
Apr 06 17:53:40 <XorA|gone> Anandir: that covers both, I would assume it does caching
Apr 06 17:55:47 <Stephmw> a b-tree implementation has been suggested elsewhere
Apr 06 17:56:17 <Stephmw> cjb-: search-time is the only important measure
Apr 06 17:56:23 <Stephmw> cjb-: the list is unlikely to change
Apr 06 17:56:35 <Anandir> Stephmw: The fastest structure is the hashtable.
Apr 06 17:56:36 <Stephmw> cjb-: but I do need to find nearby hits
Apr 06 17:56:58 <DukeOfURL> fastest would be binary search
Apr 06 17:57:26 <DukeOfURL> after the list was sorted
Apr 06 17:57:33 <Anandir> DukeOfURL: An hashtable perform a search in O(1) {where O is the cost of a search}
Apr 06 17:57:55 <DukeOfURL> how many buckets?
Apr 06 17:58:11 <DukeOfURL> how many items?
Apr 06 17:58:15 <Stephmw> I'm expecting ~500k entries, 2-15 characters each
Apr 06 17:58:40 <DukeOfURL> on the Neo???
Apr 06 17:59:00 <DukeOfURL> yikes!
Apr 06 17:59:04 <Stephmw> :D
Apr 06 17:59:20 <Stephmw> well, on the Neo I'd probably use ispell
Apr 06 17:59:49 <jgm> Anyone have experience with the mokomakefile?  I'm hitting an error during setup...
Apr 06 17:59:49 <Stephmw> I wouldn't expect the whole wordlist in ram at any one time anyway
Apr 06 18:00:07 <Anandir> Just a stupid question (another)... In the future will be avaible a cam on OpenMoko?
Apr 06 18:00:20 <DukeOfURL> then you'd index the keywords in SQL
Apr 06 18:00:45 <DukeOfURL> let disk cache take care of in-memory keys
Apr 06 18:02:45 <Stephmw> that was my first answer, wasn't sure if it was the best, so I'm checking :)
Apr 06 18:04:48 <Stephmw> thanks for the help!
Apr 06 18:18:37 <Mandarino> Hi
Apr 06 18:19:02 <maxamillion> does openmoko come with a ssh client?
Apr 06 18:19:24 <ewon> I would presume so
Apr 06 18:19:29 <ewon> given GPE ships with one
Apr 06 18:19:31 <ewon> ssh is ssh
Apr 06 18:19:44 <maxamillion> didn't know GPE ships with one
Apr 06 18:19:46 <maxamillion> thanks ....
Apr 06 18:19:53 <maxamillion> also, any word on a web browser?
Apr 06 18:20:42 <goxboxlive> Anyone with a NEO phone here now?
Apr 06 18:21:57 <XorA|gone> me
Apr 06 18:22:59 <goxboxlive> Xora|gone: Are you able to send/receive sms yet?
Apr 06 18:26:27 <XorA|gone> goxboxlive: never tried
Apr 06 18:26:42 <XorA|gone> goxboxlive: I dont think the software even runs on mine
Apr 06 18:26:46 <goxboxlive> koen told me i there where no code for it yet
Apr 06 18:26:52 <goxboxlive> ok :-)
Apr 06 18:31:35 * aloril2 notes that FAQ did answer buying from EU question
Apr 06 18:32:04 <koen> aloril2: duh... I checked before saying that :)
Apr 06 18:35:17 <Anandir> See ya guys. Thanks for everything :)
Apr 06 18:36:16 <aloril2> koen: hehe
Apr 06 18:41:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:Hardware]] [[Hardware_Developer]] [[Neo1973]] [[Gsmd]] [[Neo1973_OpenOCD]] [[Development_resources]] [[Main_Page]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[LM4857]] [[I2C]] [[Hardware:AT_Commands]] and other changes
Apr 06 19:14:57 <jgm> rwhitby: you around?
Apr 06 19:17:49 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03dodji * r1679 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Apr 06 19:17:49 <CIA-16> openmoko: Begin implementation of the Journal entries creation.
Apr 06 19:17:49 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/moko-journal.c: started to
Apr 06 19:17:49 <CIA-16> openmoko:  implement the obvious, to see if there are hidden stones
Apr 06 19:17:49 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/moko-journal.h: abstract
Apr 06 19:17:52 <CIA-16> openmoko:  icaltime completely in MokoTime
Apr 06 19:17:54 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/moko-time.h: provide headers
Apr 06 19:17:56 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03dodji * r1680 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (16 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Apr 06 19:17:59 <CIA-16> openmoko: Can now save a log entry of type email into the journal
Apr 06 19:18:01 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/*: moved what
Apr 06 19:18:03 <CIA-16> openmoko:  was in openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/ into here.
Apr 06 19:18:07 <CIA-16> openmoko:  openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/test will then contain test
Apr 06 19:18:09 <CIA-16> openmoko:  functions.
Apr 06 19:18:11 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c: implemented
Apr 06 19:18:46 <zecke> Dodji: hey, can MokoTime parse RFC822?
Apr 06 19:19:09 <Dodji> zecke, hey
Apr 06 19:20:43 <Dodji> zecke, it is related to time for ical stuff, like in RFC2445
Apr 06 19:21:02 <Dodji> zecke, but support for RFC822 can be added I guess
Apr 06 19:21:19 <Dodji> zecke, why I use underneath is icaltime.h from libical
Apr 06 19:21:32 <zecke> okay
Apr 06 19:25:09 <Dodji> zecke, do you need to parse RFC822 style dates ?
Apr 06 19:25:47 <zecke> Dodji: yes, RSS uses RFC822
Apr 06 19:26:19 <hrw|gone> happy easter everyone (or have a nice weekend for !christians)
Apr 06 19:27:23 <Dodji> hrw|gone, same to you
Apr 06 19:27:41 <Dodji> zecke, well if you need it, we can add it I think
Apr 06 19:28:56 <Dodji> zecke, MokoTIme is stored in a iso 8601 format friendly manner, and can be timezone friendly so it should only be a parsing problem
Apr 06 19:29:07 <hrw|gone> bye
Apr 06 19:29:31 <zecke> Dodji: okay, I need to finish some work and hope to hack on Moko by tomorrow :}
Apr 06 19:29:58 <Dodji> zecke, okay no problem :-) just get in touch and we will see :-)
Apr 06 19:30:22 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1681 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add qmake infrastructure for libmokojournal
Apr 06 19:30:31 <Elrond> Isn't there some glib stuff for dates?
Apr 06 19:30:41 <zecke> Elrond: yes there is
Apr 06 19:31:12 <Elrond> So what is MokoTime good for?
Apr 06 19:31:58 <zecke> Elrond: compared to QDateTime it is rubbish, also for using it in a GtkTreeView it is rubbish. I'm viewing this from the RSS Reader pov
Apr 06 19:32:49 <Elrond> Ahh.
Apr 06 19:34:07 <zecke> Elrond: you want something that stores Date+Time, provides fast compares (for sorts) and allows you to easily format textual representation (e.g. print today, yesterday as dates). GDate doesn't offer anything in this respect
Apr 06 19:35:10 <Elrond> Huh, okay. I thought, they had done more...
Apr 06 19:36:16 <zecke> Elrond: It is possible that I missed something :)
Apr 06 19:37:25 <Elrond> I'll do a quick look later. I need to review some docs first (and watch Shrek ;o) )
Apr 06 20:07:10 <rwhitby> jgm: yep
Apr 06 20:07:21 <jgm> Hey
Apr 06 20:07:48 <jgm> Hit an issue with mokomakefile when running setup for the first time, let me go dig out the error...
Apr 06 20:08:11 <rwhitby> full pastebin.ca please
Apr 06 20:14:21 <jgm> rwhitby: hmm... so of course it works this time around.  The pastebin is http://www.pastebin.ca/427473
Apr 06 20:14:31 <jgm> And the error was that there were multiple heads and it couldn't work out which one to use
Apr 06 20:15:35 <jgm> I did a local patch of my makefile (in another directory) so that the automate heads was passed the branch of org.openembedded.dev and that seemed to fix it
Apr 06 20:16:08 <jgm> (i.e. changed the `mtn --db=OE.mtn automated heads| head -n1` to `mtn --db=OE.mtn automated heads org.openembedded.dev|head -n1`)
Apr 06 20:16:27 <rwhitby> thx - I'll commit that fix
Apr 06 20:19:01 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r84 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed initial checkout when multiple heads are present. Thanks to jgm for finding this.
Apr 06 20:19:14 * rwhitby likes bug reports that have fixes attached :-)
Apr 06 20:21:48 <rwhitby> Anyone tried the "make qemu" target in MokoMakefile overnight?
Apr 06 20:22:01 <jgm> Just trying it now, seems to be working :)
Apr 06 20:22:17 <jgm> I have the emulated openmoko up, anyway, although I haven't done anything with it yet
Apr 06 20:24:40 <rwhitby> empty_mind: read up on DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS for adding stuff to your local rootfs build.
Apr 06 20:29:24 <jgm> So if I want to make changes to the code checked out by mokomakefile can I just edit openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/whatever and then rerun 'make qemu' or is that target pulling a full image from elsewhere and so ignoring any changes I make?
Apr 06 20:30:35 <rwhitby> make flash-qemu-official flashes from official images
Apr 06 20:30:43 <rwhitby> make flash-qemu-local flashes from your latest local build
Apr 06 20:30:56 <jgm> Okay cool
Apr 06 20:31:02 <rwhitby> then run "make run-qemu" (or the simple command line it runs) to run it
Apr 06 20:34:22 <rwhitby> jgm: be aware that "make update" will forcibly revert any local changes - so you will want to use quilt or something to keep those changes separate from the svn checkout tree.
Apr 06 20:34:59 <jgm> Thanks for the info, I'm a CVS person so will have to look in to how svn handles this stuff
Apr 06 20:35:30 <rwhitby> it's the MokoMakefile which does the revert
Apr 06 20:36:06 <jgm> Ah fair enough, might just hack that so it has a 'make merge' target or similar
Apr 06 20:37:02 <rwhitby> I'd suggest using the quilt support that's built in, and managing local patches under patches/openmoko-HEAD - they will not be reverted, and they will be automatically applied.
Apr 06 20:37:03 <jgm> BTW I know that some people were asking about it on the list but I'm running qemu on Ubuntu Edgy (6.10) on VMware workstation 6 (whatever the latest beta is) on Vista (phew)
Apr 06 20:37:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GTA01_Hardware]] [[FAQ]] [[GTA01Bv2]] [[WM8753]] [[Hardware]] [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]] [[%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0]] [[Main_Page_test]] [[Main_Page/ru]] and other changes
Apr 06 20:37:26 <theholyduck> lol
Apr 06 20:37:27 <theholyduck> jgm
Apr 06 20:37:28 <jgm> And it all seems to work okay (cursor and the likc)
Apr 06 20:37:29 <theholyduck> lol indeed
Apr 06 20:37:34 <rwhitby> jgm: I run Debian on VMWare on XP :-)
Apr 06 20:37:39 <jgm> s/likc/like/
Apr 06 20:37:40 <apt> jgm meant: And it all seems to work okay (cursor and the like)
Apr 06 20:37:47 <theholyduck> well vmware is pretty decent
Apr 06 20:37:50 <theholyduck> and quemu too
Apr 06 20:38:01 <theholyduck> so it shuld work
Apr 06 20:38:16 <theholyduck> even soo... why windows :P
Apr 06 20:38:18 <theholyduck> at all
Apr 06 20:38:27 <jgm> rwhitby: if that's the way that patches should exist in harmony with the rest of the environment I'll do it that way.  Thanks
Apr 06 20:38:55 <rwhitby> my tip is to hold the mouse button down for an extra quarter second when clicking on the touchscreen - that seems to make them reliably register.
Apr 06 20:39:02 <rwhitby> theholyduck: work laptop.
Apr 06 20:39:11 <theholyduck> hm...
Apr 06 20:39:12 <theholyduck> still.
Apr 06 20:39:21 <theholyduck> id make a multi partion usb pen with grub..
Apr 06 20:39:28 <theholyduck> and install linux on that...
Apr 06 20:39:36 <theholyduck> use that on the work laptop
Apr 06 20:39:44 <jgm> Why Windows?  With Vista I'm having to ask myself the same question.  Mainly due to Office 2007, which I need for work.  And yes I could go XP/VMware/Ubuntu but rebuilding my whole system (again) is not something I feel the need to do right now.  Maybe next time Vista annoys me too much, or some piece of hardware explodes...
Apr 06 20:39:54 <rwhitby> well then I wouldn't be able to work and hack at the same time, would I?
Apr 06 20:40:00 <theholyduck> true
Apr 06 20:40:00 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:40:18 <theholyduck> but i mean... why work somewhere where you have to use windows?
Apr 06 20:40:26 <rwhitby> dual-booting is overrated in my opinion.  Run a VM under one OS to get the other.
Apr 06 20:40:35 * theholyduck works for ideals and fun.. not for money
Apr 06 20:40:36 <SpeedEvil> theholyduck: Filthy money?
Apr 06 20:40:52 * rwhitby is a pragmatist, not a zealot.
Apr 06 20:40:58 <theholyduck> i mean if i enojoy doing something... who cares if get paid almost nothing
Apr 06 20:41:04 <theholyduck> i can live on bread aslong as i have fun
Apr 06 20:41:19 <rwhitby> theholyduck: got kids yet? :-)
Apr 06 20:41:26 <theholyduck> well im 16... so
Apr 06 20:41:29 <theholyduck> i still got a job
Apr 06 20:41:36 <theholyduck> i quited school for a half year time
Apr 06 20:41:48 <theholyduck> school was too easy and boring .(
Apr 06 20:42:07 <theholyduck> so i just dropped out and got into a new harder line next year
Apr 06 20:42:07 <rwhitby> heh - make the most of your idealistic existence while you have the chance - most people wish they could not have to work for money either :-)
Apr 06 20:42:22 <theholyduck> so in the mean time i work
Apr 06 20:43:08 <theholyduck> seriously though... i wouldent want to work for a computer company that uses windows.
Apr 06 20:43:19 <theholyduck> or if they did...
Apr 06 20:43:23 <theholyduck> naw i wouldent
Apr 06 20:43:24 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:43:34 <theholyduck> id rather work at burger king
Apr 06 20:43:35 <jgm> Ooh, the idealism of the young
Apr 06 20:43:41 <theholyduck> P
Apr 06 20:43:48 <theholyduck> well...
Apr 06 20:43:49 <jgm> And I bet *that* quote wouldn't hold if you were put to it
Apr 06 20:43:56 <theholyduck> im not planning on having kids
Apr 06 20:44:05 <theholyduck> im not sure if im ever gonna have a girl friend
Apr 06 20:44:05 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:44:16 <theholyduck> my life is my computer...
Apr 06 20:44:25 <theholyduck> and books
Apr 06 20:44:26 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:44:35 <jgm> There's a lot more out there, go try it some day
Apr 06 20:44:44 <jgm> (But come back if I have a question you can answer, okay? :))
Apr 06 20:44:47 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:44:48 <SpeedEvil> Or make money, and order one from the internet!
Apr 06 20:45:02 <theholyduck> i dont like real people...
Apr 06 20:45:04 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:45:08 <theholyduck> i enjoy sitting on irc
Apr 06 20:45:16 <theholyduck> its enough social interaction for me
Apr 06 20:45:42 <jgm> Some of the people on IRC are real, too (or so I hear)
Apr 06 20:45:50 <theholyduck> sure..
Apr 06 20:45:54 <SpeedEvil> Real people don't come with non-consequencial off-buttons.
Apr 06 20:45:59 <theholyduck> but i dont have to Meet them in rl
Apr 06 20:46:21 <theholyduck> also if i there is somebody very annoying on IRC
Apr 06 20:46:25 <theholyduck> i can always type /ignore
Apr 06 20:46:26 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:47:03 <koen> moko-journal looks quite interesting
Apr 06 20:47:13 <pjz> whuzzat?
Apr 06 20:47:14 <theholyduck> hm... my ears..
Apr 06 20:47:23 <theholyduck> stupid huge stereo
Apr 06 20:47:25 <pjz> koen: link?
Apr 06 20:47:25 <theholyduck> at this lan
Apr 06 20:47:26 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:47:30 <theholyduck> its playing rap music
Apr 06 20:47:47 <theholyduck> http://webcam.tg07.gathering.org/current.jpg
Apr 06 20:47:49 <theholyduck> im here
Apr 06 20:48:44 <jgm> Wherever you are it has pretty bad bandwidth to the rest of the world...
Apr 06 20:48:47 <xkr47> I'm here
Apr 06 20:49:20 <xkr47> theholyduck, sounds like you have proper stereos then
Apr 06 20:49:24 <koen> pjz: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/
Apr 06 20:49:39 <xkr47> back in 1996, assembly used to allow music, and everybody brought their own stereos :)
Apr 06 20:49:51 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:49:54 <theholyduck> well im just saying
Apr 06 20:50:00 <theholyduck> inside a 10 meter radius to me
Apr 06 20:50:00 <xkr47> and earplugs.. :)
Apr 06 20:50:02 <theholyduck> there is about..
Apr 06 20:50:07 <theholyduck> 3
Apr 06 20:50:08 <theholyduck> or 4
Apr 06 20:50:10 <pjz> koen: omg. why reinvent syslog?
Apr 06 20:50:11 <theholyduck> stereoes
Apr 06 20:50:18 <theholyduck> and the HUGEST of them all
Apr 06 20:50:22 <theholyduck> is 2m away
Apr 06 20:50:24 <xkr47> that's nothing..
Apr 06 20:50:27 <theholyduck> playing rap at full blast
Apr 06 20:50:34 <koen> pjz: syslog logs your emails?
Apr 06 20:50:37 <xkr47> 10m radius.. that's probably 20 stereos back then :)
Apr 06 20:50:40 <theholyduck> well my keyboards is shakeing for the bass
Apr 06 20:50:46 <theholyduck> i mean literaly
Apr 06 20:50:47 <theholyduck> vibrating
Apr 06 20:50:57 <xkr47> sounds nice
Apr 06 20:51:00 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:51:05 <theholyduck> it would have bin if liked rap
Apr 06 20:51:10 <pjz> koen: with a sufficiently verbose email client, yes
Apr 06 20:51:20 <koen> eeew
Apr 06 20:51:52 <xkr47> theholyduck, do you have stereos too ?-)
Apr 06 20:51:57 <theholyduck> nope
Apr 06 20:51:59 <xkr47> doh
Apr 06 20:52:11 <theholyduck> but a pair of ear protector style headset
Apr 06 20:52:11 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:52:19 <theholyduck> so i can still hear my own music and anime
Apr 06 20:52:24 <theholyduck> clear above the stereoes
Apr 06 20:53:17 <xkr47> hope you don't get permanent ringing in ears
Apr 06 20:53:25 <theholyduck> i wont
Apr 06 20:53:29 <theholyduck> iv heard louder things than this
Apr 06 20:53:43 <theholyduck> like...
Apr 06 20:53:44 <xkr47> it's the cumulative effect
Apr 06 20:53:46 <theholyduck> a jetplane takeing off
Apr 06 20:53:51 <xkr47> lol
Apr 06 20:53:56 <SpeedEvil> Earplugs are cheap.
Apr 06 20:53:58 <theholyduck> or brazil winning a football match in vm
Apr 06 20:54:03 <theholyduck> inside a brazilian bar
Apr 06 20:54:05 <xkr47> ok that's a good one :)
Apr 06 20:54:07 <theholyduck> with 200 people
Apr 06 20:54:11 <theholyduck> and a thiny bar
Apr 06 20:54:19 <theholyduck> that hurt my ears
Apr 06 20:54:24 <theholyduck> this is nothing
Apr 06 20:54:24 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:54:34 <theholyduck> anyways... we have 5200 people here.,..
Apr 06 20:54:35 <SpeedEvil> Ear damage is cumulative.
Apr 06 20:54:38 <SpeedEvil> You only get 2.
Apr 06 20:54:42 <theholyduck> not many have ear damage
Apr 06 20:54:43 <theholyduck> if any
Apr 06 20:54:50 <theholyduck> its just 5 days
Apr 06 20:54:53 <theholyduck> and the nights are quieter
Apr 06 20:55:03 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:55:06 <SpeedEvil> In modern societys many do.
Apr 06 20:55:17 <theholyduck> well i already have a ringing in my ear...
Apr 06 20:55:20 <theholyduck> its nothing serious
Apr 06 20:55:21 <SpeedEvil> Listening to loud music has cumulative easily measurable effects.
Apr 06 20:55:25 <theholyduck> i mean i can ignore it
Apr 06 20:55:30 <theholyduck> but its there
Apr 06 20:55:36 <theholyduck> iv had it since i was like 10
Apr 06 20:55:53 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:55:56 <theholyduck> but i mean so what
Apr 06 20:56:01 <theholyduck> my ears are ringing a bit
Apr 06 20:56:16 <theholyduck> oooh that really ruins my life
Apr 06 20:56:24 <theholyduck> i mean.. totaly....
Apr 06 20:56:28 <theholyduck> a slight ringing in my ears
Apr 06 20:56:37 <MacNorth> heh, by the time you actually need a fix, folks may have just figured out a better cochlear implant
Apr 06 20:56:50 <theholyduck> well im more worried about my eyes
Apr 06 20:56:57 <theholyduck> i have poor eyesight
Apr 06 20:57:04 <theholyduck> and my eyes dont co operate
Apr 06 20:57:09 <theholyduck> so i have no depth perceptionj
Apr 06 20:57:17 <theholyduck> thats much more annoying than a thiny ringing in the ears
Apr 06 20:57:18 <theholyduck> :P
Apr 06 20:58:54 <theholyduck> anyways
Apr 06 20:59:04 <theholyduck> its time to put on my contacts and go do something
Apr 06 21:02:02 <pjz> koen: well, you get the advantage of all the extant tools for syslog management and etc
Apr 06 21:02:30 <koen> syslos is for the system, not for the session/user
Apr 06 21:04:20 <pjz> LOG_USER ?
Apr 06 21:57:03 * rwhitby works out how to detect and move backwards to a frozen OE version for openmoko
Apr 06 21:59:05 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r85 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Move MokoMakefile to the official frozen OE version. Unfortunately, this will force everyone to rebuild everything.
Apr 06 21:59:45 <rwhitby> Can someone (who has the time to rebuild everything) grab the latest MokoMakefile version, and test that it detects that you're not using the frozen OE version, and tells you what to do to clobber and rebuild with the frozen version?
Apr 06 22:03:30 <Elrond> Is it me, or is the wiki slowish?
Apr 06 22:08:26 <rwhitby> Elrond: probably all those MokoMakefile rebuilds hammering the server ...
Apr 06 22:08:28 <neostrider> hello folks
Apr 06 22:09:12 <Elrond> Generated Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:10:54 GMT by mahavidya.openmoko.org (squid/2.6.STABLE5)
Apr 06 22:25:01 <xkr47> is the wiki working for you guys ?
Apr 06 22:27:12 <Psi_> hm.. its talking a while to load here
Apr 06 22:27:44 <Psi_> i think i'll say, "no, it's not working"
Apr 06 22:28:10 <xkr47> :|
Apr 06 22:31:53 <SpeedEvil> ""
Apr 06 22:34:04 <drkludge> I received a Connection timed out on the wiki.  Is this just my connection to the site or is the wiki down?
Apr 06 22:34:04 <aloril> drkludge: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 06 22:34:39 <Psi_> haha
Apr 06 22:34:48 <SpeedEvil>  np: Down down, deeper and down.
Apr 06 22:35:04 <SpeedEvil> Can't see a slashdot or other.
Apr 06 22:35:07 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Hi ... I'm wondering if anyone has gotten the compile env working under FreeBSD (OE/openmoko)?
Apr 06 22:35:07 <aloril> HistoryOnTheRoad: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 06 22:35:14 <drkludge> That was funny wasn't it
Apr 06 22:35:23 <SpeedEvil> Alas, no.
Apr 06 22:35:59 <HistoryOnTheRoad> What is the recommended distrib? (Or do you think porting the env would be straightforward)?
Apr 06 22:36:29 <drkludge> SpeedEvil, Mmmm...does that mean you are the one in the hot seat?
Apr 06 22:37:10 <SpeedEvil> Nope.
Apr 06 22:37:35 <SpeedEvil> I've got no official position with FIC - I've just been screwing with the wiki a lot.
Apr 06 22:38:00 <drkludge> Well plant and the openmoko.com are available.
Apr 06 22:38:17 <SpeedEvil> plant.openmoko.com?
Apr 06 22:38:26 <drkludge> Yes sorry
Apr 06 22:38:27 <SpeedEvil> They are going into open source bioengineering?
Apr 06 22:38:33 <drkludge> LOL
Apr 06 22:38:47 <drkludge> With a phone noless!
Apr 06 22:39:17 * SpeedEvil goes back to fixing his lint errors in openstreetmap.
Apr 06 22:50:33 <DukeOfURL> rwhitby:  build-qemu crashed while compiling neo1973.c  
Apr 06 22:50:49 <DukeOfURL> do I need to redo the Makefile?
Apr 06 22:54:29 <rwhitby> DukeOfURL: pastebin.ca the full log please
Apr 06 22:54:37 <rwhitby> Makefile shouldn't affect it
Apr 06 22:59:36 <orospakr> hey, is anyone working on a SIP (or preferably IAX) softphone for OpenMoko?
Apr 06 22:59:56 <Robot101> you could use telepathy-sofiasip as a basis :)
Apr 06 22:59:57 <SpeedEvil> GPRS doesn't really have the bandwidth.
Apr 06 23:00:08 <SpeedEvil> Err - latency I mean.
Apr 06 23:00:24 <SpeedEvil> BT or Wifi of course would work.
Apr 06 23:00:29 <orospakr> SpeedEvil: for when the machine gets Wifi, of course.
Apr 06 23:00:35 <orospakr> for use within an office, for instance.
Apr 06 23:00:39 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Apr 06 23:01:34 <DukeOfURL> rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/427689
Apr 06 23:01:54 <orospakr> Robot101: heh! ;)
Apr 06 23:02:08 <orospakr> (yeah, I would totally prefer something on Telepathy)
Apr 06 23:02:42 <Robot101> we're looking into it :)
Apr 06 23:02:50 <Robot101> definitely want to get our hands on some kit
Apr 06 23:03:30 <DukeOfURL> rwhitby:  I blew-away the entire directory, downloaded http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile and rebuilt before I started on qemu
Apr 06 23:03:33 <rwhitby> DukeOfURL: WARNING: "gcc" looks like gcc 4.x 
Apr 06 23:03:53 <rwhitby> Another idiotic Gentoo installation where 'gcc32' actually means GCC 4.x
Apr 06 23:04:02 <rwhitby> (Gentoo is idiotic, not you)
Apr 06 23:04:26 <DukeOfURL> gcc --version = 4.1.1
Apr 06 23:04:42 <rwhitby> yep, you need gcc 3.x for qemu
Apr 06 23:04:55 <DukeOfURL> k thanks
Apr 06 23:05:00 <HistoryOnTheRoad> orospakr: I am mulling the idea over for an IAX phone. I have to get the env working first, though :))
Apr 06 23:05:45 <Robot101> HistoryOnTheRoad: please help us write a telepathy IAX backend! :)
Apr 06 23:05:46 <orospakr> Robot101: it would be pretty wicked if the Telephony interface of OpenMoko sat on top of Telepathy, and Telepathy did some abstraction magic to make the GSM stuff look like another connection manager (even if the actual audio isn't passing through it).
Apr 06 23:06:00 <Robot101> orospakr: yes, also thought of this. :)
Apr 06 23:06:32 <mjr> that _would_ be nice
Apr 06 23:06:33 <orospakr> Robot101: you guys need to get a contract with the FIC guys. I suggest lots of pestering ;)
Apr 06 23:06:40 <mjr> hopefully someone does that ;P
Apr 06 23:06:44 <orospakr> and spike solutions!
Apr 06 23:06:53 <Hadaka> hmh, has the phone been released or why are *.openmoko.org sites difficult to reach? ;)
Apr 06 23:07:13 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Telepathy is the b/e that openmoko is using?
Apr 06 23:07:19 <philippe> Hadaka: I guess they have server issues atm
Apr 06 23:07:52 <rwhitby> probably all the MokoMakefile rebuilds
Apr 06 23:07:54 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Hadaka: heh ... someone was complaining earlier. Just pre-releases so far :)
Apr 06 23:08:14 <rwhitby> and lots of people with spare time over Easter ...
Apr 06 23:08:36 <Robot101> HistoryOnTheRoad: telepathy is an abstraction for VOIP/IM protocols
Apr 06 23:08:44 <HistoryOnTheRoad> rwhitby: Do you know if the OE/openmoko stuff would work on FreeBSD? (or OS X, for that matter)
Apr 06 23:09:00 <rwhitby> HistoryOnTheRoad: no idea.  ask on #oe
Apr 06 23:09:05 <Robot101> actually a neat idea from FOSTEL this week in Paris was to hook up a Telepathy <-> Woomera backend
Apr 06 23:09:16 <Hadaka> oh well, hopefully the devs still manage to have a decent easter despite all the time schedule issues
Apr 06 23:09:16 <Robot101> IAX and H.323 support
Apr 06 23:09:19 <rwhitby> (cause the answer will be based on whether OpenEmbedded works on those build hosts)
Apr 06 23:09:35 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Robot101: Wouldn't we want the calling interface too? (not just IM)?
Apr 06 23:10:01 <Robot101> HistoryOnTheRoad: hm?
Apr 06 23:10:13 <Robot101> HistoryOnTheRoad: which calling interface?
Apr 06 23:10:45 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Robot101: You said it's an abstraction for IM/VoIP ... but it would need (or should) include GSM/cell voice too
Apr 06 23:10:59 <HistoryOnTheRoad> rwhitby: Thanks for the pointer :)
Apr 06 23:11:25 <Robot101> right, actually it's not limited to IM/VOIP, the calling API splits out the call control from the actual streaming stuff
Apr 06 23:11:56 <Robot101> so if you had eg GSM hw to control, the API will work for that
Apr 06 23:12:08 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Ah, cool :)
Apr 06 23:13:13 <HistoryOnTheRoad> rwhitby: What do the openmoko devs use? (might be easier to fiddle with that first, in any case)
Apr 06 23:20:21 <rwhitby> HistoryOnTheRoad: I think some use Debian, some use Suse, ...
Apr 06 23:20:37 <rwhitby> I use Debian Etch and RHEL4, and OE and OM work fine on both.
Apr 06 23:21:20 <rwhitby> You'd be safest with Debian Etch I'd think, but that's just my experience working with OE for two years.
Apr 06 23:21:23 <HistoryOnTheRoad> I'm reading the reqs for OE on the wiki
Apr 06 23:21:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad> (for FreeBSD) ... it still needs GCC 2.95?
Apr 06 23:21:55 <rwhitby> I doubt the FreeBSD requirements are up to date.
Apr 06 23:22:17 <rwhitby> (since they still refer to bitkeeper, and that stopped being used two years ago)
Apr 06 23:22:47 <HistoryOnTheRoad> It's now bitbake, right?
Apr 06 23:23:21 <rwhitby> monotone replaced bitkeeper
Apr 06 23:23:26 <HistoryOnTheRoad> I'll probably end up trying debian then. I have to for another project, in any case
Apr 06 23:24:39 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Well, we do have monotone in FreeBSD :P
Apr 06 23:24:44 <HistoryOnTheRoad> So there is hope
Apr 06 23:25:10 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Maybe I'll make it a dual boot box :)
Apr 06 23:29:23 <rwhitby> Just use a virtual machine.
Apr 06 23:32:32 <HistoryOnTheRoad> hrm ... that's an idea :)
Apr 06 23:32:42 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Thanks for the help and pointers, btw
Apr 06 23:33:15 <HistoryOnTheRoad> Robot101: I will be back later or tomorrow, we should chat more about IAX :)
Apr 06 23:39:14 <roh> *sigh*
Apr 06 23:39:46 <roh> yes. there has somehone (dho) built openmoko on fbsd, but it reqired some hacks
Apr 06 23:40:00 <roh>  .oO(tell him if he comes back later)
Apr 07 00:35:08 <Elrond> Someone in here uses the 2410 in another project in his company. Who was that?
Apr 07 00:43:41 <_ASK> hi guys
Apr 07 00:44:23 <Elrond> And morgaine is also not anymore here. :-|
Apr 07 00:58:45 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko/2007/March/20070331_openmoko.log#[20070331%2020:07:19] ?
Apr 07 01:06:48 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - No, I think, I meant fluffs.
Apr 07 01:07:08 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - But thanks for the hint. :)
Apr 07 01:07:16 <CoreDump|home> np
Apr 07 01:08:10 <Elrond> Night people. :)
Apr 07 01:08:26 <CoreDump|home> g'night
Apr 07 02:37:59 <empty_mind> is openmoko.org down ?
Apr 07 02:38:29 <madewokherd> seems to be
Apr 07 02:38:31 <rwhitby> svn.om.org seems to be
Apr 07 02:38:58 <rwhitby> they're trying to tell everyone to go have easter.
Apr 07 02:39:14 <MacNorth> a bit ethnocentric
Apr 07 02:39:23 <CoreDump|home> hehe
Apr 07 02:40:42 <rwhitby> very true.  I hear you don't even get public holidays for easter in the US.
Apr 07 02:40:58 <rwhitby> (we get a four day weekend in Australia)
Apr 07 02:41:34 <MacNorth> even fewer when i was in japan
Apr 07 02:41:45 <MacNorth> tho, the autumn equinox got was holiday :)
Apr 07 02:42:18 <MacNorth> was in perth for anzac day, that was nice :)
Apr 07 02:57:20 <empty_mind> rwhitby, i cant even access svn.om.org
Apr 07 02:57:56 <empty_mind> (we have got four day weekend in Delhi too)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 07 02:59:57 2007