**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 09 02:59:56 2007
Apr 09 03:56:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Dr_kludge]] [[User_talk:Xkr47]]
Apr 09 04:12:22 <peepsalot> counter
Apr 09 04:12:22 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, a day 03:53:48 (8.162 +-8.2 days) (788,151)
Apr 09 04:12:32 <peepsalot> hmm
Apr 09 04:34:58 <kmeyer> building openmoko sort of requires downloading a lot of stuff :)
Apr 09 04:53:01 <MacNorth> and patience :)
Apr 09 04:57:57 <kmeyer> nah, the slow downloading bit is the part that bugs me... wait, I think I see your point :P
Apr 09 04:58:14 <kmeyer> NOTE: Handling BitBake files: - (4290/4324) [99 %]
Apr 09 04:58:25 <kmeyer> it logarithmically approaches 100%
Apr 09 04:59:54 <kmeyer> supertux ported to openmoko could be pretty awesome
Apr 09 05:01:22 <peepsalot> i think the controls are not conducive to good gameplay
Apr 09 05:01:58 <kmeyer> oh?
Apr 09 05:02:15 <kmeyer> you mean the hardware of the neo?
Apr 09 05:02:17 <kmeyer> riiight.
Apr 09 05:02:42 <peepsalot> yeah, i guess some future hardware with real buttons will be nice
Apr 09 05:04:32 <kmeyer> yep
Apr 09 05:04:54 <peepsalot> i mean, a touchscreen doesn't seem to be a good input device for games like that.  i think some games will work well though, just depends on the gameplay style
Apr 09 05:04:59 <peepsalot> sidescrollers, eh
Apr 09 05:05:47 <kmeyer> perhaps that one helicopter game where you hold either hold up, or let it fall with gravity
Apr 09 05:06:26 <peepsalot> anyways, there is a screenshot of supertux running on the neo.  i think they said there was no input or working sound yet though
Apr 09 05:06:38 <kmeyer> ah
Apr 09 05:06:47 <kmeyer> resolution is great enough?
Apr 09 05:07:02 <kmeyer> 6 "BitBake" files left
Apr 09 05:07:06 <kmeyer> how slow are these things?
Apr 09 05:07:17 <kmeyer> 5...
Apr 09 05:07:27 <peepsalot> http://www.sicherheitsschwankung.de/post/jan/2007-03-12/supertux-neo
Apr 09 05:10:46 <kmeyer> thanks
Apr 09 05:10:51 <kmeyer> ahhh parsing finished
Apr 09 05:10:55 <kmeyer> I guess build time now?
Apr 09 05:11:06 <kmeyer> download then build time!
Apr 09 05:13:10 <Psi_> anyone got dosbox to run on the neo :P
Apr 09 05:13:58 <kmeyer> whoah, I can see why the build process takes ages. 
Apr 09 05:14:10 <kmeyer> you'd think the downloads and builds could run in semi-parallel
Apr 09 05:32:39 <rwhitby> kmeyer: with bitbake 1.8.x I believe it can.
Apr 09 05:33:11 <kmeyer> ah, I only have 1.6.2
Apr 09 05:34:10 <rwhitby> yeah, OM has to port it's svnnow stuff to 1.8.x ...
Apr 09 05:34:38 <kmeyer> I'm using my distro's package I think
Apr 09 05:35:12 <rwhitby> I never install bitbake - it changes too often and is too tightly coupled with OE.
Apr 09 05:37:58 <kmeyer> heh
Apr 09 05:38:11 <kmeyer> I have no knowledge of it other than that my distro ships it
Apr 09 06:28:28 <kmeyer> woot, getting a whole 9kiB/s from OEorg
Apr 09 06:28:42 <kmeyer> 12!
Apr 09 07:00:45 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 09 07:01:28 <kelvinn> morn'
Apr 09 07:49:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973/ru]]
Apr 09 08:19:11 <Koffa>  /join #wordpressmu
Apr 09 09:05:23 <anticw> counter
Apr 09 09:05:24 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, a day 01:27:17 (8.061 +-8.1 days) (789,151)
Apr 09 09:21:38 <kiney> counter
Apr 09 09:21:39 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, a day 01:19:10 (8.055 +-8.1 days) (790,151)
Apr 09 09:56:03 <Mandarino> Re
Apr 09 10:12:27 <thresh> ~counter
Apr 09 10:12:32 <thresh> eheh.
Apr 09 10:14:02 <drath> counter?
Apr 09 10:14:02 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, a day 00:52:58 (8.037 +-8.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-15);  5 months, a week (160.074 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (791,152)
Apr 09 10:14:12 <thresh> thanks :)
Apr 09 11:41:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[Look_%26_Feel]] [[Search_Widget]]
Apr 09 11:52:32 <PBeck> counter
Apr 09 11:52:33 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, a day 00:03:43 (8.003 +-8.0 days) (792,152)
Apr 09 11:59:24 <Elrond> Hi mickeyl! :)
Apr 09 12:00:03 <Elrond> counter
Apr 09 12:00:03 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 23:59:58 (8.000 +-8.0 days) (793,152)
Apr 09 12:05:07 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1713 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/ (buttonactions.c mokodesktop.h stylusmenu.c): openmoko-panel-mainmenu: show popup menu, if power button is held for more than 1 second
Apr 09 12:05:35 <mickeyl> cheers
Apr 09 12:05:35 <mickeyl> bbl
Apr 09 12:05:41 <mickey|BBQ> :D
Apr 09 12:08:32 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1714 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: add DEBUG guard
Apr 09 12:10:31 <Magon> mickey|BBQ: what about ranking SoC?
Apr 09 12:11:00 <Magon> 2 day left
Apr 09 12:13:28 <wooKieface> counter
Apr 09 12:13:28 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 23:53:15 (7.995 +-8.0 days) (794,153)
Apr 09 12:46:21 * ninHer is away: Ausente por ahora.
Apr 09 13:37:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Search_Widget]]
Apr 09 13:51:13 * ninHer is back.
Apr 09 14:01:55 <dho> counter
Apr 09 14:02:17 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 22:58:51 (7.958 +-8.0 days) (795,153)
Apr 09 14:32:18 <aloril> (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: qemu-neo1973
Apr 09 14:34:11 <hrw> did someone here used Dell D400 laptop?
Apr 09 14:34:14 <hrw> morning
Apr 09 14:41:43 <mwester> I was talking about buying one some weeks ago, but I think that was on one of the nslu2 channels.  Could that be it, hrw?
Apr 09 14:43:46 <hrw> mwester: it was not me
Apr 09 14:53:33 <ewon> thinking about a thinkpad x40 myself....
Apr 09 14:54:57 <hrw> ewon: x40 use 1.8" hdd which are harder to get then 2.5" ones
Apr 09 14:55:20 <hrw> ewon: I am thinking about x31/x32 but d400 looks interesting..
Apr 09 14:55:36 <hrw> similiar hardware as in x31 but cheaper
Apr 09 14:58:21 <buz> x31 is ooold
Apr 09 14:58:28 <buz> i'm looking at the t60 myself
Apr 09 14:58:52 <buz> if you buy a x31 from ebay, add the money for a new battery to the price
Apr 09 14:59:12 <hrw> buz: I know that battery is a must to buy
Apr 09 14:59:36 <hrw> buz: but I need light laptop for conferences, not mobile tool for everything
Apr 09 15:00:24 <hrw> for everything I have amd64 desktop
Apr 09 15:01:53 <ewon> small size, battery life, and reliability are the priorities
Apr 09 15:02:05 <ewon> for me anyway :)
Apr 09 15:02:19 <ewon> have a thinkpad t42 at present but want to go smaller :)
Apr 09 15:02:45 <hrw> ewon: availability of accessories are also worth to consider..
Apr 09 15:02:54 <Elrond> [OT] Can I tell an usb device to power-down?
Apr 09 15:04:13 <ewon> hrw: what kind of accessories? all I need the machine to do is act as basically an ssh client / web browser / trivial compile box
Apr 09 15:05:19 <hrw> ewon: batteries and docking stations (but DS are not as needed as batteries)
Apr 09 15:05:38 <ewon> hrw: 6 cell batteries on ebay :)
Apr 09 15:10:37 <hrw> ;D
Apr 09 15:13:57 <hrw> need to go - cu
Apr 09 15:33:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[Community_Events]]
Apr 09 16:36:47 <PBeck> re
Apr 09 16:45:32 <jebba> counter
Apr 09 16:45:33 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 21:37:13 (7.901 +-7.9 days) (796,153)
Apr 09 17:00:08 <buz> laptop batteries from ebay?
Apr 09 17:00:16 <buz> i'll buy that when i own an over insured house
Apr 09 17:01:08 <PBeck> hum is the counter higher?
Apr 09 17:01:53 <PBeck> who set the counter?
Apr 09 17:02:19 <MacNorth> the counter is at this point, a guess
Apr 09 17:03:28 <SpeedEvil> 2-3 centuries is the current best guess.
Apr 09 17:03:51 <buz> i'm quite sure it will be released before hell finally freezes over
Apr 09 17:03:59 <buz> then again, that happened quite a few times in the past years
Apr 09 17:04:05 <MacNorth> that assumes that hell exists ;)
Apr 09 17:04:43 <buz> oh i'm quite sure about that
Apr 09 17:04:49 <buz> talk shows must be produced somewhere
Apr 09 17:04:53 * ninHer is away: Ausente por ahora.
Apr 09 17:05:32 <MacNorth> the US certainly isn't the best place to live
Apr 09 17:05:34 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1715 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-inputdevice.patch gta01-pcf50606.patch): 
Apr 09 17:05:34 <CIA-16> openmoko: kernel: fix input_report logics for KEY_PHONE and KEY_POWER (was vice versa)
Apr 09 17:05:34 <CIA-16> openmoko: NOTE: Harald, please check for the remaining input_report calls as well
Apr 09 17:06:33 <buz> if you believe hugo chavez then the us is lead by the devil
Apr 09 17:08:02 <MacNorth> heh, more than one person thinks the country is lead by not the right person
Apr 09 17:08:41 <buz> yeah but i wouldnt say hugo is any better really
Apr 09 17:08:53 <buz> different kind of evil really
Apr 09 17:09:13 <PBeck> buz: the hell will freeze ^^
Apr 09 17:09:29 <buz> why?
Apr 09 17:10:09 <PBeck> i dont know, you mean that :P
Apr 09 17:10:48 <rob_w> hugo chavez thinks there is live on mars
Apr 09 17:11:03 <SpeedEvil> There probably is.
Apr 09 17:11:15 <SpeedEvil> If only from contamination on the assorted landers.
Apr 09 17:11:27 <SpeedEvil> it'll be in hibernation of course.
Apr 09 17:12:00 <PBeck> i hope i can buy a neo with wlan on september ;)
Apr 09 17:13:30 <buz> i hope i can do so in july
Apr 09 17:13:40 <buz> but believe so? not really
Apr 09 17:13:48 <tuxmaniac> Hello gang
Apr 09 17:14:14 <tuxmaniac> I have ben getting this error for couple ofdays now and am unable to resolve it. any pointers? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14746/
Apr 09 17:14:53 <cjb> tuxmaniac: tried from a fresh build directory?
Apr 09 17:17:06 <tuxmaniac> yes
Apr 09 17:29:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]]
Apr 09 17:44:38 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1716 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/ (buttonactions.c mokodesktop.h): openmoko-panel-mainmenu: add preliminary actions for AUX button, fix power button menu positioning
Apr 09 17:48:09 <Elrond> mickeyl - BTW: Will you "blog" on your Sean meetup?
Apr 09 17:48:16 <mickeyl> absolutely
Apr 09 17:48:20 <mickeyl> just didnt have time yet
Apr 09 17:48:25 <mickeyl> will do later tonite
Apr 09 17:48:27 <mickeyl> :)
Apr 09 17:48:34 <Elrond> Good. :-)
Apr 09 17:48:43 <buz> any timeframe for the p1.5 announcement yet?
Apr 09 17:49:48 <Elrond> mickeyl - May you tell us about the instability issue?
Apr 09 17:50:48 <mickeyl> I'll address both in my blog
Apr 09 17:50:55 <mickeyl> (only briefly)
Apr 09 17:50:57 <mickeyl> :)
Apr 09 17:51:07 <mickeyl> bbl, need to spend some time with wifey now
Apr 09 17:51:09 <koen> "rule #1: never talk about instabilities"
Apr 09 17:51:33 <SuN> Straight from the Windows Developer's manual, I assume.
Apr 09 17:52:01 <buz> great now i need to stay up all night
Apr 09 17:52:06 <buz> waiting for the blog post
Apr 09 17:53:44 <koen> root@fic-gta01:~$ uptime
Apr 09 17:53:44 <koen>  17:53:58 up 20 days,  3:42,  5 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.05, 0.07
Apr 09 17:53:49 <koen> what instability?
Apr 09 17:53:50 <koen> ;)
Apr 09 17:54:17 <buz> with builtin multiday ups we can finally have uptime in years ;)
Apr 09 17:54:22 <buz> even without diesel generator
Apr 09 17:54:35 <mmp> koen: nevery try to prove that instability doesn't affect you:)
Apr 09 17:54:41 * mmp learned that the hard way
Apr 09 17:55:13 <koen> it's still at 200MHz, though
Apr 09 17:55:45 <mmp> that old machine, or that tuned powersavings? :)
Apr 09 17:56:26 <koen> p0 ran at 200MHz when I got it
Apr 09 17:56:37 <buz> mmp: that new, doesnt yet run faster ;)
Apr 09 17:56:40 <roh> koen i also only know of problems which cannot happen with the late versions or which i only saw on really old devices where it was obvious why
Apr 09 17:56:48 <mmp> ahaa:)
Apr 09 17:57:08 * koen points to the ';)'
Apr 09 17:57:12 * mmp did not realize he is at #openmoko and that the CPU could be just another hardware than x86 :)
Apr 09 17:57:32 <mmp> hmm, but anyway, shouldn't "the new" run at 266?
Apr 09 17:58:21 <koen> the old as well, if you poke uboot the right way
Apr 09 17:58:32 <koen> but I don't upgrade uboot everyday
Apr 09 17:58:34 <mmp> :)
Apr 09 17:58:39 <koen> pretty much 'never'
Apr 09 18:00:12 <mmp> same here, just the component just after bootloader had just yesterday maybe 10 changes at me:)
Apr 09 18:00:37 <mmp> but I'm not speaking about p0, of course:)
Apr 09 18:04:09 * mmp wishes he will soon be able to speak about p1, though :)
Apr 09 18:05:56 <DukeOfURL> the battery is 1200Ah.  at 3.7V, does that mean 4.4Whr?
Apr 09 18:08:17 <kmeyer> hmm
Apr 09 18:08:30 <kmeyer> my compile is failing because an ftp server is down or something?
Apr 09 18:08:56 <kmeyer> portmap-5-26 failed to download
Apr 09 18:09:15 <DukeOfURL> mine failed on portmap as well
Apr 09 18:09:25 <Stephmw> is it hosted on sf.com?
Apr 09 18:09:29 <DukeOfURL> yesterday and today
Apr 09 18:09:30 <Stephmw> err, sf.net
Apr 09 18:09:42 <kmeyer> no, some debian server
Apr 09 18:09:51 <kmeyer> ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/portmap/portmap_5-26.diff.gz
Apr 09 18:10:17 <kmeyer> http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/portmap_5.orig.tar.gz
Apr 09 18:10:28 <Stephmw> iirc debian's just had a release, so the debian one might well be out of date
Apr 09 18:11:32 <kmeyer> ahh
Apr 09 18:11:43 <kmeyer> the ftp connection times out for me, because of some PASV/PORT problem
Apr 09 18:12:12 <kmeyer> (I think0
Apr 09 18:14:25 <kmeyer> ah
Apr 09 18:14:27 <kmeyer> http works tho
Apr 09 18:19:24 <kmeyer> if you have Monomakefile simply download the http://<same server/path> instead of ftp:// for portmap_5-26.diff.gz, you're fine
Apr 09 18:38:40 <kmeyer> heh, OM uses busybox? Seems like it has a hell of a lot of other packages to be using it...
Apr 09 18:41:12 <CoreDump|home> kmeyer: you are of course welcome to replace BB w/ "the real deal" if you manage to stay keep the rootfs size near-identical ;)
Apr 09 18:42:32 <kmeyer> :-)
Apr 09 18:42:44 <kmeyer> nah
Apr 09 18:43:01 <kmeyer> I was just thinking that there are a lot of packages used that aren't in BB
Apr 09 18:43:12 <kmeyer> how big is the rootfs size anyways (what's the limit)?
Apr 09 18:43:26 <CoreDump|home> max is 64MB IIRC
Apr 09 18:44:01 <CoreDump|home> http://rafb.net/p/yGDKWV50.html 
Apr 09 18:48:52 <pjz> counter
Apr 09 18:48:52 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 20:35:33 (7.858 +-7.9 days) (797,153)
Apr 09 18:50:13 <SpeedEvil> a week or two prolly.
Apr 09 19:03:37 <Basheri> counter
Apr 09 19:03:38 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 20:28:10 (7.853 +-7.9 days) (798,154)
Apr 09 19:04:32 <Basheri> oomg, didn't see that upper one
Apr 09 19:04:42 <Basheri> the one above
Apr 09 19:25:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Main_Page/fr]]
Apr 09 19:29:49 <kmeyer> are all packages properly stripped and sstripped?
Apr 09 19:31:12 <koen> kmeyer: depends on how you setup your OE environment
Apr 09 19:32:49 <kmeyer> k]
Apr 09 19:33:18 <kmeyer> why is it fetching libXau?
Apr 09 19:34:44 <koen> because it needs to build it
Apr 09 19:35:34 <aevin> counter
Apr 09 19:35:35 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 20:12:12 (7.842 +-7.8 days) (799,154)
Apr 09 19:39:33 <aevin> any news whether the issues with latest rev (GTA01v4) is resolvable in sw, or if there'll have to be another hardware spin before P1?
Apr 09 19:40:05 <koen> aevin: micekyl said he'll make a brief comment about it on his blog tonight
Apr 09 19:40:24 <aevin> okay. good. thanks for the info, koen.
Apr 09 19:40:36 <kmeyer> koen: could you link me to the blog?
Apr 09 19:40:49 <koen> planet.openmoko.org
Apr 09 19:41:00 <kmeyer> thanks
Apr 09 20:22:25 <Elrond> Koffa - Do you have a recent kernel (<= 2 weeks) on your p0?
Apr 09 20:22:28 <Elrond> Huh
Apr 09 20:22:54 <Elrond> koen - Do you have a recent kernel (<= 2 weeks) on your p0?
Apr 09 20:29:20 <koen> Elrond: 2.6.20 from OE
Apr 09 20:29:22 <koen> Elrond: and how would I have a 2 weeks old kernel running if the uptime is 3 weeks?
Apr 09 20:29:24 <koen> :)
Apr 09 20:31:25 <Elrond> Oh, right. ;-)
Apr 09 20:32:08 <CoreDump|home>  15:36:06 up 5 days, 15:36, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Apr 09 20:32:10 <Elrond> I'm looking for someone having the latest (2 weeks old) gta01-power_control.patch . (it fixes, what I posted months ago.)
Apr 09 20:32:11 <CoreDump|home> hrmm
Apr 09 20:32:26 <koen> openmoko svn recipes are to unstable for me
Apr 09 20:32:38 <koen> and I use OE .dev...
Apr 09 20:32:59 <Elrond> koen - Ahh.
Apr 09 20:33:04 <CoreDump|home> Elixir-: fwiw, my P0 runs a 5 day old rootfs and kernel from OM buildhost
Apr 09 20:33:34 <koen> 6 week old rootfs upgraded via the angstrom feeds :)
Apr 09 20:33:40 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - Ahh. :-) Would you be willing to give the gps another try for me?
Apr 09 20:33:55 * ninHer is back.
Apr 09 20:34:23 <CoreDump|home> koen: =D
Apr 09 20:34:52 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: well, what do you want me to try? AFAIK gps is still non-functional
Apr 09 20:35:00 * koen discovers a bug in kdrive 1.2.0
Apr 09 20:35:45 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - echo "power_up" >/sys/..../gps/power_sequence  (You'll probably find it quicker in /sys than I can dig it up in the wiki)
Apr 09 20:36:16 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - Then feed /dev/ttyS1 with 0x80 and see, if anything comes back.
Apr 09 20:36:24 <Vegar> how's the boot time on the p0 devices?
Apr 09 20:38:27 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: hmmmmmm
Apr 09 20:38:47 <CoreDump|home> Vegar: bloody fast as currently it isn't starting anything worth mentioning =)
Apr 09 20:39:13 <Vegar> CoreDump|home: how fast is that in minutes?
Apr 09 20:39:21 <Vegar> 0.5, 1, 3?
Apr 09 20:39:28 <CoreDump|home> Vegar: IIRC ~1m
Apr 09 20:39:34 <Vegar> ok
Apr 09 20:39:54 * mmp smells udev starting
Apr 09 20:41:19 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: nothing
Apr 09 20:41:27 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: I don't even have ttyS1
Apr 09 20:41:53 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - Hmm, ttySAC1 ?
Apr 09 20:42:10 <CoreDump|home> right
Apr 09 20:42:45 <Elrond> It's long ago we tried this. I just today noticed, that GPIOs for the gps power_up-cycle were fixed.
Apr 09 20:43:40 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: no respond from ttySAC1 after  ~20 0x80
Apr 09 20:43:48 <CoreDump|home> *response
Apr 09 20:44:11 <Elrond> Hmm, and a 0xFA ?
Apr 09 20:45:05 <CoreDump|home> nothing again
Apr 09 20:45:09 <Elrond> :-(
Apr 09 20:45:13 <Elrond> Okay, many thanks. :-)
Apr 09 20:45:36 <CoreDump|home> np
Apr 09 20:47:30 <CoreDump|home> bbiab
Apr 09 21:04:26 <asdfadf> counter
Apr 09 21:04:26 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 19:27:46 (7.811 +-7.8 days) (800,155)
Apr 09 21:08:31 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1717 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: start processes in the background
Apr 09 21:11:55 <Nebukadneza> heyho
Apr 09 21:14:15 <MacNorth> hi
Apr 09 21:15:07 <ewanm89> exit
Apr 09 21:16:00 <Nebukadneza> i got a few question about the early stages of the project. i was thinking about getting a neo almost soon as i can afford it and its available (well - "in a couple of weeks" :P). i wouldnt mind helping in the development a bit as far as i can and mess with unstable software
Apr 09 21:16:21 <SpeedEvil> What questions?
Apr 09 21:16:35 <Nebukadneza> only thing i was thinking about is - the gsm interface is seperated from the rest, right? so, how would hardcore unstable software affect the gsm?
Apr 09 21:16:43 <Nebukadneza> SpeedEvil: give me some time to type ;P
Apr 09 21:16:45 <SpeedEvil> it's an AT modem.
Apr 09 21:17:07 <SpeedEvil> if the software talks over the serial port, then anything the modem supports could happen.
Apr 09 21:17:20 <Nebukadneza> hm, okay
Apr 09 21:17:31 <Nebukadneza> so its not *that* seperated
Apr 09 21:17:34 <Nebukadneza> mhmh
Apr 09 21:17:49 <SpeedEvil> It's seperated - in that the phone can control what it dials.
Apr 09 21:17:50 <mjr> how separated did you think it was?
Apr 09 21:17:54 <mjr> yah
Apr 09 21:18:04 <SpeedEvil> if it was more seperated, then the phone wouldn't actually work.
Apr 09 21:18:13 <Nebukadneza> jeah
Apr 09 21:18:23 <Nebukadneza> i havent found much about that on the wiki, so ...
Apr 09 21:19:17 <Nebukadneza> well, next question: in what ways could one help assuming i get a phone as soon as theyre out an assuming i'm not into lowlevel stuff (kernel modules and similar lowlevely userspace stuff)
Apr 09 21:19:36 <SpeedEvil> games.
Apr 09 21:19:41 <SpeedEvil> any programs.
Apr 09 21:19:42 <SpeedEvil> ...
Apr 09 21:20:22 <SpeedEvil> It's basically a touchscreen PC.
Apr 09 21:20:33 <SpeedEvil> With a phone and GPS and stuff in it.
Apr 09 21:20:36 <Nebukadneza> i thought about apps beeing useful on a mobile phone
Apr 09 21:21:29 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1718 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe/linux: update default kernel to 2.6.20.5
Apr 09 21:21:45 <Nebukadneza> and actually i couldnt come up with really sweet ideas what to do with gsm, gps, a touchscreen and bluetooth apart from the "standard" application which are probably developed by "betters" devs than i am ;P
Apr 09 21:22:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List]]
Apr 09 21:22:39 <SpeedEvil> So come up with stupid but fun ideas.
Apr 09 21:24:42 <Nebukadneza> hm
Apr 09 21:25:08 <Nebukadneza> i would come up with some strange "gps games", but well ... thats no essential feature you would want on a phone :P
Apr 09 21:25:25 <MacNorth> like, 'find the nearest toilet' :-D
Apr 09 21:25:49 <Nebukadneza> nah, like run-around-snake or memory or something
Apr 09 21:34:33 <Vegar> what's that game called?
Apr 09 21:34:36 <Vegar> where you make walls
Apr 09 21:35:09 <Vegar> uhm..
Apr 09 21:35:47 <Nebukadneza> to seperate balls bouncing off walls?
Apr 09 21:35:52 <Vegar> no
Apr 09 21:35:57 <Nebukadneza> hm, ok
Apr 09 21:36:01 <Vegar> if you crash in someone's wall you're dead
Apr 09 21:36:07 <jgm> You're thinking of the lightcycles game (or Tron, as it's sometimes known)
Apr 09 21:36:11 <Vegar> yes, tron
Apr 09 21:36:17 <Vegar> RL tron with neos would be cool
Apr 09 21:37:13 <Vegar> requires GPS and some sort of communication between the devices
Apr 09 21:37:20 <Vegar> (WLAN or GPRS)
Apr 09 21:37:24 <Nebukadneza> hm, by the way
Apr 09 21:37:31 <Nebukadneza> is the gsm chipset capable of umts?
Apr 09 21:42:41 <SpeedEvil> No.
Apr 09 21:42:45 <SpeedEvil> GSM != UTMS
Apr 09 21:42:54 <Nebukadneza> ok
Apr 09 21:42:54 <SpeedEvil> s/TM/MT/
Apr 09 21:42:55 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: GSM != UMTS
Apr 09 21:43:38 <Nebukadneza> so the only way of putting the moko into a network would be usb, bluetooth or gprs, right?
Apr 09 21:44:19 <SpeedEvil> Or ppp, over the serial link over the debug board.
Apr 09 21:44:25 <Nebukadneza> okay
Apr 09 21:44:27 <SpeedEvil> (that'd be insane though)
Apr 09 21:44:57 <Nebukadneza> *g somehow
Apr 09 21:45:21 <Nebukadneza> a mobile kinda free ssh, maybe forwarded to a laptop through bluetooth would be way beyond nice ;P
Apr 09 21:50:07 <Vegar> http://gps-tron.datenmafia.org
Apr 09 21:50:10 <Vegar> interesting
Apr 09 21:50:59 <ajturner> Vegar - that hasn't really done anything in awhile
Apr 09 21:51:09 <ajturner> great idea though :)
Apr 09 21:51:30 <SuN> Hm, real-life pacman comes to mind.
Apr 09 21:53:21 <Elrond> *G*
Apr 09 21:53:55 <Nebukadneza> hm
Apr 09 21:54:14 <Nebukadneza> is mtn beeing goddamned slow while doing a make setup with MokoMakefile normal?
Apr 09 21:58:10 <drath> SuN: we had that 20 years ago - according to my dictionary it's "to play tag" in english ;)
Apr 09 22:00:57 <SuN> Yeah, but that has horribly outdated graphics :D
Apr 09 22:01:15 <drath> hehehehe :)
Apr 09 22:19:31 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r89 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (series sysvinit-inittab-duplicated-lines.patch): Patch to remove duplicated tty lines in /etc/inittab
Apr 09 22:20:14 <rwhitby> Reported in http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=430
Apr 09 22:20:19 <rwhitby> mickeyl: ^^
Apr 09 22:20:56 <mickeyl> hmm still?
Apr 09 22:21:17 <mickeyl> is that problem in OE or in OM?
Apr 09 22:21:24 <rwhitby> the fic specific inittab had the tty lines in it, then the bb recipe adds them again
Apr 09 22:21:34 <rwhitby> this is with frozen OE and latest OM
Apr 09 22:22:16 <rwhitby> and the recipe correctly omits the SAC0 line, but the hard-coded lines in the fic-gta01 override inittab file still has it, which causes a getty on that port
Apr 09 22:22:41 <rwhitby> You can see this by the "duplicated id 1" on boot from /sbin/init when it reads the inittab
Apr 09 22:23:38 <mickeyl> do we still get the tty1 after that patch
Apr 09 22:23:39 <mickeyl> ?
Apr 09 22:23:48 <rwhitby> yes, the bitbake recipe adds it.
Apr 09 22:24:10 <rwhitby> sysvinit_2.86.bb
Apr 09 22:24:17 <mickeyl> cool, in that case, please go ahead and add it to OM 
Apr 09 22:24:28 <rwhitby> line 80
Apr 09 22:24:57 <rwhitby> I'd like to get a confirmation from someone else first that the bug appears for them and that this fixes it.
Apr 09 22:25:12 <mickeyl> let me take a look at my inittab on a more or less fresh build
Apr 09 22:25:28 <rwhitby> you can see it in tmp/rootfs/...
Apr 09 22:25:54 <rwhitby> bbiab (getting ready for work)
Apr 09 22:26:03 <mickeyl> k
Apr 09 22:27:10 <Nebukadneza> hm
Apr 09 22:29:22 <Nebukadneza> i just read the pages about the bootloader ... i still dont understand how it will go in phase0
Apr 09 22:29:51 <Nebukadneza> the bootloader lies in the nand flash, right? and one has to have a JTAG interface to flash into nand, right?
Apr 09 22:30:21 <Nebukadneza> so what do people do who want a phase0 moko, but cannot afford a additional hackers lunchbox with a development board?
Apr 09 22:30:39 <Nebukadneza> uhm
Apr 09 22:30:40 <SpeedEvil> NBo.
Apr 09 22:30:42 <Nebukadneza> phase1, sorry
Apr 09 22:30:52 <SpeedEvil> You will _rarely_ need the JTAG loader.
Apr 09 22:31:02 <SpeedEvil> You can for most purposes reflash the phone from USB.
Apr 09 22:31:16 <SpeedEvil> It's only if yoiu screw up the bootloader that you need JTAG.
Apr 09 22:31:39 <Nebukadneza> how could that happen
Apr 09 22:31:52 <Nebukadneza> i mean, screwing the bootloader
Apr 09 22:32:03 <SpeedEvil> Trying to upgrade it.
Apr 09 22:32:12 <SpeedEvil> Think of the bootloader like lilo or grub.
Apr 09 22:32:55 <Nebukadneza> sure, so its possible to flash the nand containing the bootloader over usb?
Apr 09 22:33:00 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Apr 09 22:33:06 <SpeedEvil> unless it's corrupt.
Apr 09 22:33:44 <Nebukadneza> *g okay
Apr 09 22:33:54 <Nebukadneza> and assuming i fuck it up there is no other way than a jtag interface?
Apr 09 22:34:04 <SpeedEvil> Nope.
Apr 09 22:34:11 <SpeedEvil> Or send it to someone with one.
Apr 09 22:34:29 <SpeedEvil> How many times have you screwed up your PCs FLASH rom though?
Apr 09 22:34:53 <Stephmw> as many times as anyone's felt the need to mess with it :)
Apr 09 22:34:58 <Stephmw> ... 0
Apr 09 22:35:09 <Nebukadneza> *g
Apr 09 22:35:17 <Stephmw> the guys that want to will likely get a jtag cable
Apr 09 22:35:18 <Nebukadneza> SpeedEvil: well, it happens
Apr 09 22:35:24 <Stephmw> the others will be happy in ignorance
Apr 09 22:36:40 <mickeyl> blog posted. g'night
Apr 09 22:38:30 * SpeedEvil ponders what the blog is before reading it.
Apr 09 22:41:13 <SpeedEvil> Not one or two weeks then.
Apr 09 22:41:15 <SpeedEvil> :/
Apr 09 22:46:33 * CoreDump|home would wish that flashing the bootloader would get a protection against the average n00b bricking his Neo.
Apr 09 22:47:02 <CoreDump|home> Maybe write-protect the partition via uboot-env
Apr 09 22:47:05 <Stephmw> some checksumming would help
Apr 09 22:48:06 <CoreDump|home> I believe it should be harder than "dfu-util $some-parameters" to flash uboot. Just hard enough that N00b needs to do some serious RTFM before he can even think of flashing it
Apr 09 22:48:14 <CoreDump|home> s/it/uboot/
Apr 09 22:48:14 <apt> CoreDump|home meant: I believe uboot should be harder than "dfu-util $some-parameters" to flash uboot. Just hard enough that N00b needs to do some serious RTFM before he can even think of flashing it
Apr 09 22:48:18 <aloril> (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: OpenMoko Coreteam in Frankfurt/Main http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/04/10/openmoko-coreteam-in-frankfurtmain/
Apr 09 22:48:20 <CoreDump|home> !curse apt
Apr 09 22:49:29 <greghunt> it should be easy, so there less chance of a fuck up..
Apr 09 22:49:44 <greghunt> if they want to flash it they'll find a way, best make it easy and idiot proff
Apr 09 22:49:45 <greghunt> proof*
Apr 09 22:50:01 <SpeedEvil> Flashing should be easy.
Apr 09 22:50:06 <SpeedEvil> Flashing the bootloader should be hard.
Apr 09 22:50:11 <CoreDump|home> But not uboot IMO,
Apr 09 22:50:22 <CoreDump|home> SpeedEvil: exactly, I wasn't talking about the rootfs =)
Apr 09 22:50:27 <greghunt> can the flasher do some sort of sanity checks before hand?
Apr 09 22:50:54 <greghunt> perhaps check user sanity? :)
Apr 09 22:50:58 <CoreDump|home> heh
Apr 09 22:51:38 <CoreDump|home> I guess forcing $NOOB to edit a u-boot env to unprotect the uboot partition would scare off enough idiots
Apr 09 23:56:45 <rwhitby> morning
Apr 09 23:58:43 <jebba> hey rwhitby 
Apr 10 01:12:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:PilotDB]]
Apr 10 01:16:17 <kmeyer> libmatchbox...
Apr 10 02:38:22 <dho> Hi, is there anybody here who is affiliated with the project or closely with FIC?
Apr 10 02:38:47 <dho> I need to discuss things regarding GSoC as I need to make a decision about whether to do a port to the Neo1973 or a different project
Apr 10 02:41:18 <dho> idk if roh or rwhitby or balrog-kun or SpeedEvil would know about this or if there are other people I should contact, and I know it's kind of last minute but if there are any contact suggestions from others, they'd be greatly appreciated
Apr 10 02:41:58 <rwhitby> dho: I can't help you, sorry.
Apr 10 02:42:26 <dho> Ok.
Apr 10 02:43:13 <dho> Anyway, just for background in case anybody who can happens to see it -- I'm deciding whether to mentor a student re: a port of Plan 9 to the Neo1973
Apr 10 02:43:53 <dho> But I guess I sort of need information on whether the hardware platform will change at all, and whether the current qemu will be definitely what FIC ships (and if it's definitely certain that FIC will ship stuff....)
Apr 10 02:46:16 <rwhitby> dho: I would expect if it was ported to current qemu, then changes to track hardware changes would be straight-forward.
Apr 10 02:48:08 <dho> rwhitby: do you know if there is any idea of whether the current issue is hardware or software related yet?
Apr 10 02:48:41 <rwhitby> dho: no information that I've seen on that.  Not even in mickey|zzZZzz 's blog entry.
Apr 10 02:49:29 <dho> ok.
Apr 10 02:50:37 <kmeyer> anyone know how to tell how far along bitbake is?
Apr 10 02:57:33 <rwhitby> kmeyer: XXX/YYY ?
Apr 10 02:57:59 <kmeyer> might be monomakefile, not bitbake
Apr 10 02:58:00 <kmeyer> not sure
Apr 10 02:58:10 <rwhitby> the last couple of percent for the very first run depends on your network connectivity to retrieve all the remote revisions.
Apr 10 02:58:26 <rwhitby> what command is running?
Apr 10 02:58:39 <kmeyer> NOTE: package eds-dbus-1.4.0+svn20070215-r5: task do_fetch: started
Apr 10 02:59:15 <rwhitby> ah, you're in the middle of bitbake building packages.
Apr 10 02:59:20 <kmeyer> make setup finished already, that's where the last few percent took a while
Apr 10 02:59:23 <dho> Blah.
Apr 10 02:59:30 <rwhitby> no real indicator there
Apr 10 02:59:31 <kmeyer> well, except it has to fetch all the files as well rwhitby 
Apr 10 02:59:32 <dho> 4 hours to make a decision and both students are sleeping :(
Apr 10 02:59:35 <kmeyer> darn
Apr 10 02:59:39 <kmeyer> hehe dho
Apr 10 02:59:56 <kmeyer> plan 9 for the neo doesn't sound very practical
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 10 02:59:57 2007