**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 11 02:59:57 2007
Apr 11 04:02:47 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[User:Cbaird]] [[Media_Player]]
Apr 11 04:49:02 <cbaird> It's now been ~48 hours since I started MokoMakefile on the 800MHz MinITX VIA box...
Apr 11 04:50:06 <cbaird> Advice to Others: use a faster machine if you can. :)
Apr 11 05:05:57 <paulproteus> cbaird, Hah! (-:
Apr 11 05:09:22 <doc|home> can someone explain the logic of having a stylus but no holder for it? :) Is the mass market version going to be the same design?
Apr 11 05:18:38 <cbaird> 'devirginator'? Should it be 'revirginator'....?
Apr 11 05:21:25 <rwhitby> cbaird: only if it left it blank?
Apr 11 05:47:10 <billl_> counter
Apr 11 05:47:11 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 6 days 06:12:48 (20.259 +-14.0 days) (819,157)
Apr 11 05:47:49 <doc|home> anyone got any idea?
Apr 11 05:48:41 <CM> doc|home: My first guess would be that they want to make money selling you a stylus subscription ;)
Apr 11 05:48:48 <doc|home> hehe
Apr 11 05:48:56 <doc|home> and the general design? 
Apr 11 05:49:15 <CM> Actually, I don't know why they have it like that
Apr 11 05:49:20 <doc|home> I've seen nicer looking phones :/  
Apr 11 05:49:37 <CM> I'm guessing they want it to be used with the fingers mostly
Apr 11 05:49:59 <CM> I think the design is ok. It's definitely different. :)
Apr 11 05:50:15 <doc|home> wouldn't be my favourite :/
Apr 11 05:50:32 <CM> Would have been nice with a small joystick and another button or two
Apr 11 05:50:42 <cbaird> It wouldn't be a good fit in a shirt pocket, where I usually keep my Palm..
Apr 11 05:50:47 <doc|home> It's the general shape I'm not too fond of 
Apr 11 05:52:55 <cbaird> The "antigrav hoverboard for mice" design..
Apr 11 05:56:47 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]]
Apr 11 06:39:01 <greentux> counter
Apr 11 06:39:02 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 6 days 05:20:57 (20.223 +-14.0 days) (820,157)
Apr 11 06:59:50 <Hopscotch> good morning
Apr 11 07:24:42 <Rakshasa> Morgen alle.
Apr 11 07:24:56 <kmeyer> goedenavond
Apr 11 07:38:18 <hrw> morning
Apr 11 07:52:48 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[Calendar]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[History]] [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Web_Address_Field]]
Apr 11 07:55:02 <CM> Lots of wiki changes again :)
Apr 11 07:57:17 <CM> Hmm.. Mostly reverting sabotage :(
Apr 11 08:06:01 <rmz> yo
Apr 11 08:29:59 <rmz> anyone know where I can buy a few openmoko phones?
Apr 11 08:30:12 <rmz> (I´m a research scientist working for Telenor (a telco))
Apr 11 08:47:31 <CM> rmz: You can't yet 
Apr 11 08:47:33 <CM> counter
Apr 11 08:47:33 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 6 days 03:12:25 (20.134 +-14.0 days) (821,157)
Apr 11 08:47:41 <CM> faq?
Apr 11 08:47:42 <aloril> See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ
Apr 11 08:53:23 <rmz> hehe, second question in the FAQ. Thanks ;)
Apr 11 08:55:07 <CM> Inga problem ;)
Apr 11 09:14:22 <_m0> hi @all
Apr 11 09:17:06 <CM> Morning :)
Apr 11 09:24:35 <Stephmw> heya
Apr 11 09:25:03 <cheesy> heyo
Apr 11 09:27:23 <CM> QUOTE: Even the NSA want us to merge the gconf-dbus branch! http://perkypants.org/blog/2007/04/11/spooks-dig-gconf/
Apr 11 09:27:39 <Stephmw> lol
Apr 11 09:45:47 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Massi]] [[Translation]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[Calendar]]
Apr 11 10:07:58 <rwhitby> hmm - the power and aux buttons have some functions now
Apr 11 10:41:26 <tkondziola> hello all
Apr 11 11:08:08 <hrw> someone used Dell D400 laptop?
Apr 11 11:40:47 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FOSDEM_2007]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Screen_Saver]]
Apr 11 12:32:34 <cbaird> Not what I wanted to see at the 54 hour point: "OpenMoko is now using a frozen OE version which doesn't match your OE checkout ..."
Apr 11 12:35:43 <roh>  54 hour point?
Apr 11 12:36:25 <CM> roh: He's compiling on a via 800Mhz ;)
Apr 11 12:36:46 <cbaird> It's the only (disk-space-)spare Debian machine in the house..
Apr 11 12:37:09 <CM> cbaird: What about doing like rwhitby and use vmware?
Apr 11 12:37:53 <cbaird> vmware * netbsd = 0
Apr 11 12:38:21 <Stephmw> hmmm... qemu?
Apr 11 12:38:23 <cbaird> (or at least, the 'player' client as yet)
Apr 11 12:38:26 <CM> Xen?
Apr 11 12:38:51 <cbaird> "dumping NetBSD?" :)
Apr 11 12:39:01 <Ganneff> sure
Apr 11 12:39:14 <CM> Btw, I tried netbsd in vmware, and both times it froze my whole computer.. Had to do a hard reset.
Apr 11 12:41:16 <cbaird> The miniitx machine's been useful in the past-- it's a low power machine that gets left on 24/7, so one-off 'overnight compiles' aren't a problem (it's also got a OpenWRT whiterussian dev.)
Apr 11 12:42:06 <CM> Time for a new machine then maybe? :)
Apr 11 12:42:56 <cbaird> I've even had it cross-compile a whole NetBSD install when I 'kinda borked' the upgrade to AMD64 on the 'desktop' machine.
Apr 11 12:43:07 <roh> cbaird heh.. i use a core duo 2ghz notebook and thought 6 hours compile is long
Apr 11 12:44:59 <cbaird> Gather 'round and listen to my stories of the days when I ran a Public Access Unix System of a 3.5MB SCO Xenix box back in 1990... The times I'd spend staying up late after everyone else was logged-off, just so I could use Emacs 18... :)
Apr 11 12:47:14 <cbaird> counter
Apr 11 12:47:14 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 23:12:44 (19.967 +-14.0 days) (822,158)
Apr 11 12:47:38 <cbaird> Okay-- so I have 19.967 +-14.0 days for the build to finish now. :)
Apr 11 12:50:15 <rboehme> counter
Apr 11 12:50:15 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 23:09:43 (19.965 +-14.0 days) (823,158)
Apr 11 12:52:14 <rboehme> does anyone know if P1.5/2 date has slipped by the same scale that P1 has so far? IE P1.5 around Sep, P2 around Dec?
Apr 11 12:55:23 <CM> rboehme: Haven't heard anything about a slip for p2 at least
Apr 11 12:56:04 <CM> The latest news is that we'll get more information about p1.5 as soon as p1 is starting
Apr 11 12:56:54 <rboehme> ah, ok. Hopefully it won't put me in a pickle as to if I need to wait for 1.5 :)
Apr 11 12:57:22 <cbaird> "As long as it happens before people start going bankrupt.." -_-
Apr 11 12:57:27 <CM> I really wonder about the wifi.. 
Apr 11 12:57:49 <SpeedEvil> FIC can't go bankrupt over this.
Apr 11 12:57:50 <CM> Also, I'd like to hear more abour the rumor that p1 ppl will get a discount on p2
Apr 11 12:57:57 <SpeedEvil> It's a very, very small portion.
Apr 11 12:58:08 <SpeedEvil> CM: look on the Neo1973 page on the wiki
Apr 11 12:58:16 * CM looks
Apr 11 12:58:18 <SpeedEvil> there is a link to the mailing list post.
Apr 11 12:59:52 <CM> Yes.. "But don't worry about being an early
Apr 11 12:59:52 <CM> adopter. If we come out with something cool we'll make sure you guys can
Apr 11 12:59:56 <CM> get it at a discount if you already have a developers version." - Sean
Apr 11 13:00:20 * CM appologises for the linebreaks
Apr 11 13:08:07 <buz> fic better delivers the neo than killing the project. no self respecting geek would otherwise buy from them, ever again
Apr 11 13:08:53 <drath> heh, i'm sure "self respecting geeks" are the #1 target group for every consumer device manufacturer ;)
Apr 11 13:09:24 <buz> well they do manufacture a lot of mainboards tec
Apr 11 13:09:41 <buz> besides, having a bad image with geeks can end up having a lot of bad recommendations
Apr 11 13:11:29 <cbaird> f00fc8c9 ...
Apr 11 13:13:34 <cbaird> Although, most Economists will tell you that the /real/ money to be made in the world is to have something you can flob off to companies that'll promise a 5-10% decrease in business costs.
Apr 11 13:14:05 <buz> most economist dont know jack about making money (and i am an economist)
Apr 11 13:14:10 <buz> (soon enough, anyway)
Apr 11 13:15:30 <buz> if they really knew about making money, they'd be entrepreneurs ;)
Apr 11 13:22:52 <cbaird> I was thinking of Larry Smith's "Computing's Next Great Empires" talk.
Apr 11 13:23:20 <cbrake> what happened to: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_OpenOCD?
Apr 11 13:23:37 <cbrake> it has a bunch of stuff about GPS!!
Apr 11 13:24:27 <drath> (cur) (last)  18:22, 6 April 2007 Dr kludge (Changed neo1973 to the category page.)
Apr 11 13:26:01 <cbrake> looks like the Hardware:AGPS page got pasted into the New1973_OpenOCD page.
Apr 11 13:26:28 <cbrake> any issues with reverting to the last good page?  I have no idea what Dr kludge was trying to do.
Apr 11 13:26:46 <rwhitby> at least he is aptly named ...
Apr 11 13:33:20 <roh> cbrake just do
Apr 11 13:33:47 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_OpenOCD]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Apr 11 13:49:18 <Kalixa> hello openmoko
Apr 11 13:50:24 <CM> I'm sure Motorola will sue if anyone says "Hello moko" ;)
Apr 11 13:50:52 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03mickey * r1727 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/Makefile.am: libmokoui: remove no longer present moko-search-bar.* from Makefile.am
Apr 11 14:04:57 <WiggleCat> counter
Apr 11 14:04:57 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 21:55:02 (19.913 +-14.0 days) (824,158)
Apr 11 14:05:01 <WiggleCat> !
Apr 11 14:09:21 <kiney> counter
Apr 11 14:09:22 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 21:50:37 (19.910 +-14.0 days) (825,158)
Apr 11 14:17:21 <PBeck> hi
Apr 11 15:15:12 <ewon> christian?
Apr 11 15:26:23 <Sup3rkiddo> hey there..are there plans for openmoko gear..like tees?...the orange logo on black would look swell
Apr 11 15:29:57 <etf|work> Sup3rkiddo: See http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 somebody did some already
Apr 11 15:31:46 <Sup3rkiddo> etf|work: kewl..thanks
Apr 11 15:32:04 <etf|work> got one myself, rather nice :)
Apr 11 15:37:46 <pjz> I thinkt the 'free your phone' tagline is much better than the unmeaningful 'hello moto!' stuff
Apr 11 15:39:22 <Sup3rkiddo> pjz: +1
Apr 11 15:39:33 * lSpeedEvi has been planning a 50 mile journey.
Apr 11 15:40:02 <lSpeedEvi> Fortunately, I'm still living in a blank, so can do 80 miles of new road.
Apr 11 15:40:07 * koen just returned from a 250lm commute
Apr 11 15:40:12 <koen> s/lm/km/
Apr 11 15:40:28 <lSpeedEvi> It does mean that I've got 9 waypoints on the google maps search.
Apr 11 15:40:34 <Stephmw> koen: private learjet?
Apr 11 15:40:46 <koen> Stephmw: car
Apr 11 15:41:30 <lSpeedEvi> But I can put 5 towns and lots of road on the map :)
Apr 11 15:42:00 <lSpeedEvi> oops.
Apr 11 15:42:08 <lSpeedEvi> wrong channel - thought I was in #osm.
Apr 11 15:43:46 <Stephmw> "... and that's how lSpeedEvi admitted he curb-crawls"
Apr 11 15:45:27 * SpeedEvil wonders why people vandalise wikis.
Apr 11 15:45:56 <Stephmw> "... and that's how lSpeedEvi admitted he curb-crawls"
Apr 11 15:45:59 <Stephmw> *ahem*
Apr 11 15:46:39 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 11 15:47:36 <SpeedEvil> 'No, I was looking at the street signs, not the streetwalkers!
Apr 11 15:47:54 <Stephmw> well practiced evasion too
Apr 11 15:48:27 <Stephmw> "I was testing the new hooker tracking features... nonono, I mean .... oh blast"
Apr 11 15:48:58 * SpeedEvil ponders proposing the amenity:brothel tag for OSM.
Apr 11 15:49:26 <hrw> osm?
Apr 11 15:49:33 <drath> open street maps
Apr 11 15:49:36 <hrw> Okręgowa Spółdzielna Mleczarska?
Apr 11 15:49:37 <SpeedEvil> Open Street Maps
Apr 11 15:49:51 <XorA> heh heh, opemmoko-sex-finder
Apr 11 15:49:55 <SpeedEvil> http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?lat=56.25390621469565&lon=-3.158347755689567&zoom=9 is the bit I'm doing.
Apr 11 15:50:25 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: wow
Apr 11 15:50:30 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: that's a huge endeavour
Apr 11 15:50:56 <XorA> SpeedEvil: didnt realise you were near the Burgh
Apr 11 15:51:09 <SpeedEvil> The bit I'm in has a population of some 200K, unmapped.
Apr 11 15:51:48 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: is there a list of region->person?
Apr 11 15:51:53 <SpeedEvil> Not really.
Apr 11 15:52:03 * XorA is in that region as well
Apr 11 15:52:10 <Stephmw> curious to know whos doing my neck of the woods :)
Apr 11 15:53:23 <SpeedEvil> The 'who's doing what' at the moment sucks.
Apr 11 15:53:33 <SpeedEvil> There is no good revision control accessible by users.
Apr 11 15:54:27 <XorA> time to get train
Apr 11 15:58:07 <kiney> counter
Apr 11 15:58:07 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 20:01:51 (19.835 +-14.0 days) (826,157)
Apr 11 16:03:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Sjf2410-linux]]
Apr 11 16:17:12 * koen wonders why josm doesn't have an overlay for the coastlines
Apr 11 16:20:01 <CM> I should have gps-logged my easter driving.. 2017km home and back..
Apr 11 16:21:39 <SpeedEvil> Even without actually tagging it, it's useful.
Apr 11 16:39:23 <loufoque> CM: did you go from london to moscow or something?
Apr 11 16:55:11 <Fletch> counter
Apr 11 16:55:11 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 19:04:47 (19.795 +-14.0 days) (827,157)
Apr 11 17:01:01 <ozamosi> That counter really moves the wrong way :(
Apr 11 17:10:28 <buz> i think they have somehow found a timemachine
Apr 11 17:10:37 <buz> to move counters
Apr 11 17:39:12 <bhima> counter
Apr 11 17:39:13 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 18:20:46 (19.764 +-14.0 days) (828,157)
Apr 11 17:39:54 <thomasg_gpm> another additional week?
Apr 11 17:40:24 <buz> the devs got kidnapped by aliens
Apr 11 17:45:54 <MetaBookfoziS> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000011.html ^
Apr 11 17:46:03 <thomasg_gpm> oh my god! how awful! can we help them? :)
Apr 11 17:46:41 * paulproteus looks at the pictures again and sighs longingly
Apr 11 17:47:04 <thomasg_gpm> I already read this message. just was wondering why the counter seems to add a week every time the neo should come :)
Apr 11 17:47:20 <MetaBookfoziS> :)
Apr 11 17:47:28 <buz> we must make signs in corn fields
Apr 11 17:47:33 <buz> so the aliens know where to land
Apr 11 17:47:37 <MetaBookfoziS> :))
Apr 11 17:47:43 <hrw> ;D
Apr 11 17:47:44 <hrw> cu
Apr 11 17:47:52 <MetaBookfoziS> we mus pot them near to firefox logos;)
Apr 11 17:47:54 <MacNorth> even linux folk can succumb to viral marketing ;-P
Apr 11 17:47:56 <MetaBookfoziS> u
Apr 11 17:48:34 <thomasg_gpm> hrw|gone, ok, I'll meet you in two hours on the corn field
Apr 11 17:48:45 <woglinde> counter
Apr 11 17:48:45 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 18:11:13 (19.758 +-14.0 days) (829,157)
Apr 11 17:48:46 <MetaBookfoziS> :)
Apr 11 17:48:52 <hrw|gone> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/7fbc9f624d2fc62f3ef6e1d1a03ff2e4.png
Apr 11 17:49:18 <MetaBookfoziS> baah that gnomeish fodler icons:/
Apr 11 17:56:47 <thomasg_gpm> MetaBookfoziS, I'm sure, that enlightenment will perform pretty good on this device :)
Apr 11 17:58:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Application_Manager]] [[Manually_using_GSM]]
Apr 11 18:09:22 <concept10> hrw|gone, what development environment are you running there in that screenshot?
Apr 11 18:12:39 <MetaBookfoziS> thomasg_gpm > i wanna kde:D
Apr 11 18:12:47 <thomasg_gpm> bloat :)
Apr 11 18:12:51 <MetaBookfoziS> :D
Apr 11 18:12:54 <thomasg_gpm> its damn slow on any pc ^^
Apr 11 18:13:03 <MetaBookfoziS> it's false, you know:)
Apr 11 18:13:06 <thomasg_gpm> well, imho kde is ok
Apr 11 18:13:13 <thomasg_gpm> but on a mobile device? no thanks :)
Apr 11 18:13:21 <MetaBookfoziS> ^ thats true:/
Apr 11 18:13:39 <concept10> can that development environment shown in that last screenshot be setup?
Apr 11 18:13:43 <thomasg_gpm> I do not really like kde, but as desktop environment its not bad and better than gnome
Apr 11 18:15:10 <koen> concept10: development environment?
Apr 11 18:15:22 <koen> concept10: that's a screenshot from the real device
Apr 11 18:16:10 <concept10> koen, okay.  Thanks.  Can I setup a similar environment for testing?
Apr 11 18:16:31 <koen> if you have a neo1973, yes
Apr 11 18:16:36 <MetaBookfoziS> and, i think qt's license not accept to build openmoko with it
Apr 11 18:16:57 <MetaBookfoziS> but who nows... om is opensource and free...
Apr 11 18:20:42 <CM> loufoque: Nope, just from Gothenburg where I live to my hometown Umeå in the north
Apr 11 18:20:54 <CM> loufoque: Sweden is quite long.. ;)
Apr 11 18:23:54 <noidd> CM: I've been to Umea
Apr 11 18:23:59 <noidd> and Vannas
Apr 11 18:24:05 <noidd> and Vannasby
Apr 11 18:24:13 <noidd> may be vannes
Apr 11 18:24:16 <noidd> or vennas
Apr 11 18:24:17 <noidd> whichever
Apr 11 18:24:53 <prom> concept10: you can set up openmoko in an emulator. even without building the whole environment by yourself. wait a sec, ill give you the url to the howto...
Apr 11 18:25:25 <prom> concept10: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU
Apr 11 18:25:43 <concept10> prom, yeah, i had found that a couple on mins ago, thanks
Apr 11 18:27:22 <prom> concept10: nothing to thank for. if you want to do development work your still gonna need a build tree so you have a cross compiler, library headers and so on... having the unpacked and patched source around helps too.
Apr 11 18:29:58 <concept10> prom, yeah, im new to embedded linux, im trying to get a nice development environment going over here.  I have another project I want to tackle.
Apr 11 18:54:55 * aloril2 wonders if we hear more this week or early next week
Apr 11 19:02:12 <CM> noidd: Hehe.. Vännäs? Wtf did you do that for? :P
Apr 11 19:02:26 <CM> noidd: Cool though.. Not many who have been all the way up there :)
Apr 11 19:05:49 <hrw> concept10: that scap is taken from neo1973 running Ångström distribution. Same software as in OpenMoko distribution was used but I changed GTK theme to Clearlooks
Apr 11 19:05:54 <hrw> and he left ;(
Apr 11 19:07:58 <MetaBookfoziS> counter (6 weeks +-200days)
Apr 11 19:08:07 <MetaBookfoziS> ah...
Apr 11 19:08:09 <MetaBookfoziS> counter
Apr 11 19:08:09 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 16:51:50 (19.703 +-14.0 days) (830,157)
Apr 11 19:54:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]]
Apr 11 20:05:06 <CIA-16> openmoko: 03dodji * r1728 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (6 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Apr 11 20:05:06 <CIA-16> openmoko: Initial support for load, add, remove, and iterate over journal entries.
Apr 11 20:05:06 <CIA-16> openmoko:  * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c,h:
Apr 11 20:05:06 <CIA-16> openmoko:  added new entry points to load, remove and iterate over journal
Apr 11 20:05:06 <CIA-16> openmoko:  entries. Make sure load entries, add entry, and iterate works.
Apr 11 20:05:09 <CIA-16> openmoko:  Still have to debug the remove entries part.
Apr 11 20:05:11 <CIA-16> openmoko:  Also this has been done for EMAIL_JOURNAL_ENTRY type of entries.
Apr 11 20:13:42 <filippo> the application developed are only that visible in qemu image? I can't fin terminal mediaplayer and some other
Apr 11 21:21:56 <ninHero> hi all
Apr 11 21:22:17 <DukeOfURL> the list is pretty quiet this afternoon
Apr 11 21:38:36 <peeps> i read an article about home fabrication today, which got me wondering if the neo case specs will be open too.  for people to build their own variants
Apr 11 21:39:07 <peeps> i mean, if some sort of cad file could be supplied
Apr 11 21:39:54 <peeps> http://www.fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Apr 11 21:42:57 <DukeOfURL> Can a hard plastic case be produced with this method, or would you need an extrusion machine?
Apr 11 21:43:15 <DukeOfURL> Hard, as in it will take serious abuse...
Apr 11 21:44:03 <GaKkGaKk> I would think an aluminum case for the neo would be nice.
Apr 11 21:44:17 <GaKkGaKk> And able to resist abuse :)
Apr 11 21:44:18 <DukeOfURL> It would bend.
Apr 11 21:45:00 <SpeedEvil> There are _many_ Al alloys.
Apr 11 21:45:11 <SpeedEvil> Pure aluminium is very soft.
Apr 11 21:45:18 <SpeedEvil> (and corrosion resistant)
Apr 11 21:45:51 <SpeedEvil> Better alloys are really quite strong.
Apr 11 21:46:28 <DukeOfURL> If we do mod the Neo, for example an IR LED/photocell, we'll need the ability to mod the case.
Apr 11 21:46:44 <GaKkGaKk> Anything with a thickness over a mm is really quite strong... More than enough for a mobile phone.
Apr 11 21:47:42 <SpeedEvil> Metal has fundamental problems for a phone though.
Apr 11 21:47:53 <peeps> i actually have no idea if that particular device would be capable of fabbing a suitable phone case, but I just thought it was an interesting idea
Apr 11 21:48:11 <DukeOfURL> Internal antenna wouldn't work...
Apr 11 21:49:18 <GaKkGaKk> One would probably have to arrange some aolution for the antenna yes...
Apr 11 21:50:02 <peeps> if not now I believe that some time in the future, such cnc machines will be easily available to non-professionals
Apr 11 21:50:20 <DukeOfURL> How many layers does the Neo circuit board have?
Apr 11 21:50:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Coding_Guidelines]]
Apr 11 21:50:32 <SpeedEvil> Probably 4 or 6 at most.
Apr 11 21:50:49 <peeps> i think i recall someone in this channel saying 7 layers, but I don't know about all that
Apr 11 21:51:02 <peeps> it is a phone, not a burrito!
Apr 11 21:51:28 <DukeOfURL> So adding an IC would be out of the question.
Apr 11 21:51:34 <SpeedEvil> Well - no.
Apr 11 21:51:39 <DukeOfURL> Assuming there was real estate
Apr 11 21:51:40 <SpeedEvil> You just need a respin of the board.
Apr 11 21:51:48 <SpeedEvil> What IC?
Apr 11 21:52:03 <DukeOfURL> Accelerometer chip
Apr 11 21:52:21 <DukeOfURL> Very small.  Surface mount
Apr 11 21:52:29 <SpeedEvil> That's probably pretty simple to add - it's not a large chip, and can just be glued onto the I2C bus, which is 2 pin.
Apr 11 21:53:06 <peeps> it would be awesome to use an openmoko device as a wiimote
Apr 11 21:53:19 <peeps> would need a camera too though
Apr 11 21:53:53 * peeps wonders if wiimotes communicate over standard bluetooth
Apr 11 21:54:00 <SpeedEvil> yes
Apr 11 21:58:37 <kmeyer> glued on lol
Apr 11 21:58:41 <cjb> yes, people have them working as mice under Linux.
Apr 11 21:59:09 <kmeyer> "working" for some definitions of the word
Apr 11 22:02:21 <peeps> too bad Linux doesn't support cursor orientation like the wii though :p
Apr 11 22:02:23 <DukeOfURL> mouse gestures with the phone
Apr 11 22:02:58 <peeps> turn the remote upside down and the cursor turns upside down...
Apr 11 22:05:21 <peeps> if my phone had an accelerometer, i would write a script to make it scream in terror whenever it reaches a hard hit
Apr 11 22:05:30 <LarstiQ> I saw some nice wii demonstrations this weekend as midi input devices
Apr 11 22:05:38 <peeps> s/reaches/receives/
Apr 11 22:05:39 <apt> peeps meant: if my phone had an accelerometer, i would write a script to make it scream in terror whenever it receives a hard hit
Apr 11 22:06:24 <LarstiQ> http://screenfashion.org/
Apr 11 22:07:21 <kmeyer> lol apt
Apr 11 22:08:35 <peeps> kmeyer, you know it's a bot, right?
Apr 11 22:09:14 <kmeyer> yes, it's utility seems limited though
Apr 11 22:09:46 <peeps> botsnack
Apr 11 22:09:52 <peeps> ~botsnack
Apr 11 22:09:52 <apt> peeps: aw, gee
Apr 11 22:10:14 <dho> Yeah. That's really useful.
Apr 11 22:10:20 <peeps> ;-)
Apr 11 22:10:21 <dho> s/y u/y not u/
Apr 11 22:10:21 <apt> dho meant: Yeah. That's really not useful.
Apr 11 22:10:26 <dho> :P
Apr 11 22:10:36 <dho> s/.*//
Apr 11 22:16:52 <Elrond> What is this mokojournal thing about anyway?
Apr 11 22:19:26 <DukeOfURL> will applications run under root?
Apr 11 22:20:58 <DukeOfURL> or will apps run unser a user with lesser privileges?
Apr 11 22:21:11 <DukeOfURL> s/unser/under/
Apr 11 22:21:11 <apt> DukeOfURL meant: or will apps run under a user with lesser privileges?
Apr 11 22:25:55 <Elrond> DukeOfURL - probably currently as root. But they should not depend on this.
Apr 11 22:26:49 <DukeOfURL> Actually, I would prefer apps not run as root.
Apr 11 22:27:12 <DukeOfURL> My users will try to hach the phone...
Apr 11 22:27:21 <DukeOfURL> s/hach/hack/
Apr 11 22:27:22 <apt> DukeOfURL meant: My users will try to hack the phone...
Apr 11 22:31:13 <bhima> It's an open source phone! Users are _supposed_ to hack it! :)
Apr 11 22:32:19 <DukeOfURL> peeps: was the watchband movie stop action?  Or does the machine actually operate that fast?
Apr 11 22:33:00 <peeps> i haven't seen the watchband movie, at work right now, and this comp doesn't have right codecs
Apr 11 22:34:26 <DukeOfURL> What would be the plusses and minuses of this method over a 3D laser etching machine?
Apr 11 22:34:45 <DukeOfURL> 3-axis
Apr 11 22:36:27 <TimRiker> kmeyer: limted?
Apr 11 22:36:41 <TimRiker> s/limted/limited/
Apr 11 22:36:41 <apt> TimRiker meant: kmeyer: limited?
Apr 11 22:36:51 <TimRiker> apt: spell limted
Apr 11 22:36:53 <apt> possible spellings for limted: limited linted limed lifted lilted limned limped listed lighted limiter looted ligated limboed lofted lumped lusted lamed milted lammed lidded limpet lambed lasted limpid
Apr 11 22:37:00 <TimRiker> apt: dict limted
Apr 11 22:37:02 <apt> could not find definition for limted
Apr 11 22:37:04 <TimRiker> apt: dict limited
Apr 11 22:37:05 <apt> Dictionary 'limited' (1 of 11): small in range or scope; "limited war"; "a limited success"; "a limited circle of friends" .
Apr 11 22:40:22 <peeps> i never heard of a 3 axis laser etcher.  just 2d engravers
Apr 11 23:44:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Coding_Guidelines]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Apr 12 00:53:08 <bhima> counter
Apr 12 00:53:08 <aloril> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: 2 weeks, 5 days 11:06:51 (19.463 +-14.0 days) (831,157)
Apr 12 01:40:24 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Popup_Menu]] [[Menubar]] [[Action_Button]] [[Toolbar]] [[Application_Manager]] [[Search_Widget]] [[Talk:Search_Widget]]
Apr 12 01:55:43 <youngdev> wow openmoko
Apr 12 01:56:07 <youngdev> I remember reading about this project
Apr 12 01:56:26 <youngdev> does anyone actually have one of these phones?
Apr 12 01:56:26 <aloril> youngdev: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Apr 12 01:57:06 <peepsalot> youngdev, only a select few lucky developers have a phone at the moment
Apr 12 01:57:45 <peepsalot> it should be for sale in the coming weeks, actual date unknown.  they keep pushing it back
Apr 12 01:58:20 <youngdev> they look uber badass
Apr 12 01:59:20 <peepsalot> yep
Apr 12 01:59:44 <youngdev> lets say I wanted to be a developer, how do I get my hands on one?
Apr 12 01:59:55 <bhima> There were some problems with the latest hardware revision. Last I heard, they weren't sure if it was hardware or software.
Apr 12 02:00:00 <LarstiQ> youngdev: subscribe to the announce list
Apr 12 02:00:21 <bhima> ie: there really isn't production hardware for anybody ATM.
Apr 12 02:00:21 <LarstiQ> youngdev: keep an eye on planet.openmoko.org, and order one once openmoko.com goes live
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 12 02:59:57 2007