**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 24 02:59:56 2007 Apr 24 03:09:36 any news from FIC? Apr 24 03:09:47 counter Apr 24 03:09:47 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 16:25:05 (10.684 +-10.7 days) (991;176) Apr 24 03:28:10 peepsalot: not really. Apr 24 03:28:29 :,( Apr 24 04:02:01 counter Apr 24 04:02:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 15:58:58 (10.666 +-10.7 days) (992;176) Apr 24 05:04:30 is a couple of weeks up yet? Apr 24 05:04:31 itsfm: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 24 05:05:29 has anyone else been experiencing problems flashing the latest qemu snapshots? Apr 24 06:09:46  Apr 24 06:10:07 " ", indeed. Apr 24 06:10:10 morgen alle. Apr 24 06:10:30 good morning too Apr 24 06:26:11 hey everyone..is anyone getting a kernel panic stating that its unable to mount rootfs.? Apr 24 06:27:06 Using a local or stock image? Apr 24 06:27:13 abraxa_, both of them.. Apr 24 06:27:27 Lemme try the current stock Apr 24 06:27:40 abraxa_, sure..thanks Apr 24 06:28:33 btw, did you figure out how to get your own bb included in the build? Apr 24 06:29:15 abraxa_, nope ;(...am trying to get python....i forgot the variable i have to add in .conf file Apr 24 06:29:35 Dang... cause I'm trying to do the same, lol Apr 24 06:30:44 abraxa_, yeah theres a guy called empty_mind,..he was successful in bringing in the interpreter..told he added a variable..but forgot what.. Apr 24 06:31:00 abraxa_, fsck..power cut..will be back.. Apr 24 07:14:52 good morning Apr 24 07:15:51 morning Apr 24 07:41:15 counter Apr 24 07:41:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 14:09:22 (10.590 +-10.6 days) (993;176) Apr 24 07:43:18 does openmoko use kdrive or xserver-xephyr or is this the same thing? Apr 24 07:50:41 concept10: xephyr uses another host x server Apr 24 07:51:17 heh, someone found my website by googling for "NMEA parser qbasic" Apr 24 08:17:53 counter? Apr 24 08:17:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 3 days 13:51:02 (10.577 +-10.6 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-03); 4 months, 3 weeks, a day (145.154 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (994;176) Apr 24 08:27:15 abraxa_, dude.. Apr 24 09:00:24 moin Apr 24 09:23:15 counter? Apr 24 09:23:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 3 days 13:18:21 (10.554 +-10.6 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-03); 4 months, 3 weeks, a day (145.109 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (995;176) Apr 24 09:23:54 is the date a guess, or is there something backing it up? Apr 24 09:30:42 It's a complicate calculation with wish and guess included :D Apr 24 09:32:32 and moon phase ofcourse Apr 24 09:33:12 and 25%-30% of the result include pure hope Apr 24 09:36:50 :) Apr 24 10:18:16 counter Apr 24 10:18:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 12:50:51 (10.535 +-10.5 days) (996;176) Apr 24 10:19:29 counter Apr 24 10:19:29 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 12:50:15 (10.535 +-10.5 days) (997;177) Apr 24 10:42:59 openmoko: 03mickey * r1818 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/ (9 files in 8 dirs): Apr 24 10:42:59 openmoko: openmoko-libs/applications: API Change: Apr 24 10:42:59 openmoko: - rename moko_paned_window_set_upper_pane to moko_paned_window_set_navigation_pane Apr 24 10:42:59 openmoko: - rename moko_paned_window_set_lower_pane to moko_paned_window_set_details_pane Apr 24 11:09:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Player]] Apr 24 11:44:21 counter Apr 24 11:44:21 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 12:07:48 (10.505 +-10.5 days) (998;177) Apr 24 12:02:46 hmmmm... tomtom one v2 contains global locate hammerhead Apr 24 12:57:27 Hopscotch: what is the method of assistance? gsm? Apr 24 12:58:11 i think so Apr 24 12:58:19 via bluetooth Apr 24 13:03:44 Look at hardware:agps on the wiki Apr 24 13:04:03 Hopscotch: Apr 24 13:04:07 basically. Apr 24 13:04:40 AGPS is almost pointless if you ever see the sky about 12 minutes every 6 weeks. Apr 24 13:04:51 true Apr 24 13:05:09 all i wanted to say is that tomtom also uses hammerhead and that we have another version of the gpsd Apr 24 13:05:21 so there is more than one version to reverse Apr 24 13:05:24 Are you sure it's the same chip? Apr 24 13:05:35 There are several GPS chips from global locate. Apr 24 13:05:39 don't know if there are hammerhead variants Apr 24 13:05:58 but i'm pretty sure they don't reinvent their wheel everytime Apr 24 13:06:09 I don't think tehre are - just pointing out that the global locate -> hammerhead isn't true. Apr 24 13:06:20 there is only one hammerhead AIUI. Apr 24 13:06:29 yes, and it is hammerhead Apr 24 13:06:30 How is the driver on tomtom done? Apr 24 13:07:06 basically it's the "gltt" binary, that reads /dev/ttySACx and outputs stuff to /var/run/gpspipe Apr 24 13:07:29 What would be _very_ interesting to us would be an strace of that starting up. Apr 24 13:07:52 As that way we can get the hammerhead talking. Apr 24 13:08:02 shouldn't be much of a problem Apr 24 13:08:18 did tomtom get a special driver, or did they reverse engineer one? Apr 24 13:08:27 Err - tomtom. Apr 24 13:08:35 The millions selling navigation device people. Apr 24 13:08:36 i guess they got help when they asked gl for 100000+ chips... Apr 24 13:08:37 so_solid_moo: or they wrote one basing on NDA specs Apr 24 13:09:02 hrw: that's most likely, I guess Apr 24 13:09:28 to me it looks like something based on arm-object-code + platform specific glue code Apr 24 13:09:36 I suppose most useful would be a cold start. But even a warm start would have lots of useful info. Apr 24 13:09:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[User_talk:Csdexter]] [[Media_Player]] Apr 24 13:09:53 does anybody have a compiled strace for arm? Apr 24 13:10:30 Umm... The WRT54 people? Apr 24 13:10:36 they're mips... Apr 24 13:10:41 Oh well. Apr 24 13:11:32 192 root 1348 S /bin/gltt -baud 115200 -periodic 2000 -fix_start norm Apr 24 13:14:50 Hopscotch: it should be in openmoko feeds Apr 24 13:15:20 ah, right - found it Apr 24 13:17:20 *compile* Apr 24 13:18:42 Hopscotch: Has anyone managed to run the tomtom binaries on other platforms? Apr 24 13:18:59 yes, i think so Apr 24 13:19:14 i heard about someone who run the navigator on a zaurus Apr 24 13:19:31 Just wondering - as it'd be nice if you could present tomtom with a mostly-working mapping application on the neo, and get them to fix the bugs, and ship it on the website. Apr 24 13:19:51 we talked a lot with them about such things Apr 24 13:20:06 but management is only dong stuff that find potentially millions of customers Apr 24 13:20:24 :/ Apr 24 13:21:09 TomTom on Zaurus (incl. video) : http://www.zaurus.org.uk/opentom/index.html Apr 24 13:21:17 they even had a version running on desktops Apr 24 13:21:17 How 'talked to' ? and who? Apr 24 13:21:23 but they wouldn't release it Apr 24 13:21:30 peter frans powels Apr 24 13:21:34 ceo of tomtom Apr 24 13:21:42 Ah. Apr 24 13:21:52 he's not encouraging it, that's the current situation Apr 24 13:21:53 at least at that time Apr 24 13:23:11 cto he is Apr 24 13:23:21 http://www.tomtom.com/about/about.php?ID=2&Language=1 Apr 24 13:23:25 Pity. Apr 24 13:23:47 Openstreetmap is cool, but basically blows at the moment. Apr 24 13:23:52 the opentom team went with half the tomtom devel team for dinner in amsterdam two years ago Apr 24 13:24:18 (I say this as someone who's mapped a couple of hundred miles of road). Apr 24 13:26:07 got a first strace Apr 24 13:26:12 but the thing won't run for long Apr 24 13:30:40 Why not? Apr 24 13:30:57 Or rather - how long. Apr 24 13:31:12 If it wakes up and gets a position, then exits, that's fine. Apr 24 13:32:28 openmoko: 03thomas * r1819 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (23 files): * Fix indentation Apr 24 13:33:02 SpeedEvil: wrong commandline parameters :) Apr 24 13:33:07 Ah :) Apr 24 13:35:14 next try... Apr 24 13:42:46 ok, now Apr 24 13:42:49 1.2mb strace Apr 24 13:46:25 but now - time to get a haircut Apr 24 13:46:29 see you later Apr 24 14:00:12 it seems TomTom used the same smdk2440 devel processor, looking at the patches Apr 24 14:11:29 there's also an accelerometer in it Apr 24 14:13:33 openmoko: 03thomas * r1820 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (6 files): * Don't set the window decoration properties in the application Apr 24 14:27:51 hi guys Apr 24 14:43:34 re Apr 24 14:53:02 openmoko: 03thomas * r1821 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (7 files): * Remove dialergsm.{c,h}, to be replaced by MokoGsmdConnection Apr 24 15:01:59 openmoko: 03thomas * r1822 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): * Remove remaining references to custom mainloop Apr 24 15:10:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[User_talk:Tssegdhhgg7653]] [[User_talk:Tssegdhhggfj56]] [[Main_Page]] [[Shipping_Notes]] Apr 24 15:11:55 openmoko: 03thomas * r1823 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/configure.ac: * Remove the configure requirement for libgsmd Apr 24 15:18:16 why openmoko wiki install instructions tell to install psycho? Apr 24 15:18:38 Moo^^: psyco speeds up bitbake Apr 24 15:18:48 Moo^^: or jumps you in a shower with a knife, your choice Apr 24 15:23:16 looks like feisty doesn't ship with psycho in repositories Apr 24 15:24:53 Moo^^: python2.5-psyco ? Apr 24 15:25:35 sorry aevin, my typo Apr 24 15:25:59 np :-) Apr 24 15:27:07 * Moo^^ updated OpenEmbedded ubuntu instructions Apr 24 15:28:18 does psyco give a good kick? Apr 24 15:28:39 it helps, yes. Apr 24 15:30:52 tag Apr 24 15:31:07 ~prod PBeck Apr 24 15:31:16 * apt zaps PBeck with a high voltage cattle prod Apr 24 15:31:23 * XorA chuckles maniacally Apr 24 15:32:13 hey XorA und apt Apr 24 15:32:47 * Moo^^ watches monotone numbers counting Apr 24 15:32:54 haven't done this before... what the heck it is doing? Apr 24 15:35:04 do you think its posible to get some sort of voip system running on the fic 1973? Apr 24 15:35:58 Not really. Apr 24 15:36:10 CErtainyl not wiothout wifi, or USB net. Apr 24 15:36:21 GSM data is simply too high latency Apr 24 15:36:26 i cant bear to look... its gonna be pushed out two weeks again isnt it.... Apr 24 15:36:55 counter Apr 24 15:36:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 10:11:32 (10.425 +-10.4 days) (999;177) Apr 24 15:37:17 hmm. isnt that pushed out a week from a week ago? Apr 24 15:37:35 well i was just thinking using the openmoko as a sort of headset with. usb or wifi net Apr 24 15:37:35 :P Apr 24 15:37:36 don-o: it ads a week everyweek Apr 24 15:37:46 im just wondering if the cpu can handle it Apr 24 15:37:48 don-o: the counter is meaningsless now Apr 24 15:37:58 XorA: sigh. Apr 24 15:38:11 at least ive got the simulator :) Apr 24 15:38:14 don-o: await for announcements and it will become accurate again Apr 24 15:38:38 i suppose i should stop whining and start coding. :) Apr 24 15:39:12 thx. gotta get back to work. Apr 24 15:40:27 cu Apr 24 15:41:22 hm is it possible that the neo comes in september for mass maket? Apr 24 15:41:28 *market Apr 24 15:41:37 It's possible. Apr 24 15:42:16 i think the hardware refresh for june will be a dram Apr 24 15:42:18 *dream Apr 24 15:43:28 gtg cu Apr 24 15:43:58 hm mai is soon Apr 24 15:44:03 and september too Apr 24 15:50:42 counter Apr 24 15:50:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 10:04:38 (10.420 +-10.4 days) (1000;178) Apr 24 16:36:38 * k-s[WORK] is away: Lunch! Apr 24 16:46:31 counter Apr 24 16:46:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 3 days 09:36:43 (10.400 +-10.4 days) (1001;178) Apr 24 16:46:42 counter? Apr 24 16:46:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 3 days 09:36:38 (10.400 +-10.4 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-03); 4 months, 3 weeks (144.801 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1002;178) Apr 24 17:11:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Tsseg345eee2t1]] [[User_talk:Tssegwrqtweee2t1]] [[User_talk:Tssegwrqreeeee2t1]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[User_talk:Tssegdefgyeeee2t1]] [[User_talk:Tssegdesgtiyeeee2t1]] [[User_talk:Tssegdesgtiyui2t1]] [[User_talk:Tssegdesgte2t1]] and other changes Apr 24 17:13:29 openmoko: 03laforge * r1824 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: * Enable LCDCON5:INVVCLK to comply with LCM clock polarity (Allen Chang) Apr 24 17:21:10 so as of right now,how big are the chances for wifi? Apr 24 17:23:47 * ks-[AWAY_WORK] is back. Apr 24 17:25:34 SrRaven: afaik it is decided that there will be wifi for sure Apr 24 17:25:51 but last I heard they still havent found a GPL chip Apr 24 17:26:02 the date in unknown Apr 24 17:50:03 a couple of weeks eh, that's the current word? Apr 24 17:50:03 kito_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 24 17:51:01 the FAQ is very vague about the current developer release date Apr 24 17:51:07 sean has hinted about more news son Apr 24 17:51:30 s/on/oon/ Apr 24 17:51:31 MacNorthOSX meant: sean has hinted about more news soon Apr 24 17:51:48 excellent. My phone just died and I want something hackable to replace it Apr 24 17:52:20 And I want a new mobile I can play around with and use for school Apr 24 17:52:51 is there any word on what the state of the SDK will be when the dev version is released? Apr 24 17:53:15 phone for school? classes over a phone line? Apr 24 17:53:16 hopefully it's just a matter of setting up a cross-compiler Apr 24 17:53:19 define 'state'... afaik it's available now Apr 24 17:53:26 mokomakefile :-) Apr 24 17:53:41 balrog-kun more like a wifi thing to check info online and/or to have a portable version of wikipedia with me Apr 24 17:53:43 why in hell would anyone output sound through the usb port Apr 24 17:53:52 SrRaven: ah okay Apr 24 17:54:30 because they want usb to take over the world? Apr 24 17:54:34 someone would have to programm a ebook reader first though :P Apr 24 17:55:08 someone delete the spam things on th wiki Apr 24 17:56:16 there's xpdf Apr 24 17:57:05 you want the whole wikipedia in a pdf? Apr 24 17:57:23 you can get portable versions at around 1.2 gb ish Apr 24 17:57:28 no, for wikipedia there's a web browsere Apr 24 17:57:42 s/e$// Apr 24 17:57:49 but that would mean I'd need to have either a data plan or wifi all the time Apr 24 17:57:50 I thought there wasn't going to be wifi until the general release Apr 24 17:58:27 you can download the database and setup a local mediawiki Apr 24 17:58:56 yeah but like I got a clue how to do that Apr 24 17:59:06 heh Apr 24 17:59:09 it would even allow you to edit the pages and then sync changes to wikipedia.org through some automated tool Apr 24 17:59:30 madewokherd: i think 3.5mm already has taken over the headphone world Apr 24 17:59:35 someone port apache to this thing! Apr 24 17:59:56 I don't know what that is Apr 24 17:59:57 * balrog-kun bets apache would run modified and probably is already in the feeds Apr 24 18:00:03 there's actually a mobile version of wiki Apr 24 18:00:04 *unmodified Apr 24 18:00:39 the only thing that bothers me is that the downloadable versions I seem to find are not up to date Apr 24 18:01:44 buz: because you can get a better DAC on USB? Apr 24 18:01:56 when i used wikipedia on my palm PDA, with tomeraider (or whatever it was called) i downloaded a then one year old wp snapshot which already filled the entire card Apr 24 18:02:17 i think this was 2004 snapshot Apr 24 18:02:35 well for most stuff the size isnt that big of a issue Apr 24 18:02:42 eh date Apr 24 18:02:48 later snapshots are just not practical due to size (even without images) and it's difficult to define criteria to filter out the less important pages Apr 24 18:02:56 Because Ill just need it for some classes where it barely changes Apr 24 18:02:58 so the age of the page is probably the best criteria Apr 24 18:11:01 dho: the idea is to put analog audio thru the port Apr 24 18:11:16 pushing pcm data over usb is obviously quite trivial Apr 24 18:11:49 number of updates to a given page could help Apr 24 18:12:05 if its controversial, it's probably important ;) Apr 24 18:23:31 buz, why wouldn't you want to output sound to USB? you can use the device as a microphone/headset for a desktop Apr 24 18:23:54 because i already have 2.5mm port for that? Apr 24 18:24:02 which is like more compatible with headsets? Apr 24 18:26:21 i mean a handset. the phone could act as a handset for a desktop Apr 24 18:29:01 so, how do i get my hands on one? Apr 24 18:29:02 miraage: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 24 18:29:12 =) Apr 24 18:30:05 Wouldn't the phone be most useful as a bluetooth handset for the computer. I'd rather use headphones and a table-mount mic than a phone with an usb cord sticking from it's side... Apr 24 18:32:00 i hope p1.5 gets wifi and we can run sip on it Apr 24 18:32:05 then i dont need any pc ;) Apr 24 18:32:29 i'm interested in doing some GPS application development for openmoko. how immature is the gpsd and libgps etc? Apr 24 18:32:33 Rakshasa, sure, but that's assuming you have bluetooth in your desktop. Apr 24 18:33:14 USB could be another option for those other unlucky souls Apr 24 18:34:05 there is a large market of "Skype Phones" that do just that, over USB Apr 24 18:34:36 or voip if you prefer Apr 24 18:35:49 Well, I never have understood those things either.. Apr 24 18:36:08 yeah wtf do people buy those Apr 24 18:36:15 they are like totally useless Apr 24 18:36:38 does the FIC 1973 handset have a USB ID? I didn't see anything like listed in the Linux USB ID's lists Apr 24 18:36:43 * buz has a linksys pap2 for SIP Apr 24 18:37:21 It's got several. Apr 24 18:37:27 amarsh04: there is a page on the wiki Apr 24 18:37:42 It can present as several devices - mass storage, network, ... Apr 24 18:37:56 ok... someone should submit them to the Linux USB ID list Apr 24 18:38:23 miraage: gpsd is quite mature. Apr 24 18:38:53 miraage: You can write stuff for it now, using the many 'fake positions' options, or inputting from another GPS. Apr 24 18:39:53 is it the same gpds as this one? http://gpsd.berlios.de/ Apr 24 18:40:16 SpeedEvil: huh. cool! what's the GPS accuracy of the device hardware roughly? Apr 24 18:40:36 0 Apr 24 18:40:41 it's not currently working. Apr 24 18:40:54 The reported accuracy is 5m in 1s. Apr 24 18:41:05 Vegar: yes. Apr 24 18:41:13 The hardware has a binary plugin to that. Apr 24 18:41:23 There may well be an open sourced version soon. Apr 24 18:41:28 the hardware isn't working? Apr 24 18:41:34 But there isn't even a working closed source one at the moment. Apr 24 18:41:42 miraage: no driver - at the moment. Apr 24 18:41:48 The hardware works. Apr 24 18:42:18 Truth is stranger than fiction. Apr 24 18:42:55 oops Apr 24 18:43:26 how can one tell that the hardware truly works without a driver Apr 24 18:43:37 it could be spitting out total garbage for all we know Apr 24 18:43:43 It's been checked by Global locate apparently. Apr 24 18:43:50 but not in a releasable form. Apr 24 18:43:56 that company must be kinda incapable Apr 24 18:44:07 when will GL have the gpsd plugin ready? Apr 24 18:44:15 Doesn't matter at the moment. Apr 24 18:44:25 As hardware is not released. Apr 24 18:44:26 (personally, i dont care much for gps anyhow) Apr 24 18:44:52 I am planning to do some development on emulator. How does QEMU handle network connection for the target? Apr 24 18:44:59 ouch. so basically no ETA at all on when gps will become functional! Apr 24 18:45:16 well no eta for hardware either so... Apr 24 18:45:25 miraage: it's not a priority ATM. I'm pretty sure that at or before when the hardware ships, it'll be delivered. Apr 24 18:45:45 we heard that in january already Apr 24 18:45:46 On another track, someone has straced a hammerhead interacting with a driver in a tomtom. Apr 24 18:45:47 before all the delays Apr 24 18:45:48 okay. cool. Apr 24 18:46:15 not that i'm terribly fussed either way Apr 24 18:46:22 i care more for p1.5 ;) Apr 24 18:48:02 what is p1.5? Apr 24 18:48:55 Sup3rkiddo: Any more success on your side? I just got home so I figured I'd ask before continuing work Apr 24 18:51:04 miraage: Phase 1.5 is the Neo1973 hardware release between phase 1 (= the public developer version) and phase 2 (= mass market release) Apr 24 18:51:59 so the features of 1.5 will be integrated in 2? Apr 24 18:52:10 Yup. Apr 24 18:52:18 and there are significant additions planned? Apr 24 18:52:31 prob wifi Apr 24 18:52:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 has the chewy details Apr 24 18:52:42 whow Apr 24 18:55:30 1gb onboard flash would be very nice Apr 24 19:04:06 hah, I just disassembled my samsung t809 Apr 24 19:04:18 wealth of cool little things in that Apr 24 19:04:33 shame the screen is cracked, its a really nice screen Apr 24 19:08:33 Hello. Apr 24 19:08:48 kito_: ebay. Apr 24 19:09:48 Heya Pup Apr 24 19:10:10 I checked, there aren't any Apr 24 19:11:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[Neo1973/pl]] [[FIC/pl]] [[FIC]] [[Introduction/pl]] Apr 24 19:37:22 I am using MokoMakefile to build emulation target. Where do I can increase number of threads? I have dual-core CPU, but default settings seem to utilize one thread only (other core is busy) Apr 24 19:37:57 Moo^^: don't use the makefile and edit local.conf Apr 24 19:38:55 koen|gprs: can you be more descriptive? This is my first build try. Apr 24 19:39:28 read OE's gettingStarted instead of using the makefile, and edit local.conf Apr 24 19:41:29 ok Apr 24 19:42:55 Hello, everyone Apr 24 19:43:16 There was some talk about testing software before phase1... but I seen no announcement...? Apr 24 19:43:36 about the freeze? Apr 24 19:44:05 llNo release yet. Apr 24 19:45:29 i wonder if the neo will be powerful enough for TTS Apr 24 19:45:39 Too bad :-) Apr 24 19:45:42 Sure. Apr 24 19:45:52 I've done TTS on a 486/75. Apr 24 19:45:57 so I could listen to IRC with headphones Apr 24 19:45:58 However. Apr 24 19:46:06 IIRC, flite has been used. Apr 24 19:46:11 * koen|gprs mentions 'flite' Apr 24 19:46:22 peep: tts systems vary a _lot_. Some are good, some are bad, some eat a lot of power and some do not. Apr 24 19:46:23 flite should lightweight enough Apr 24 19:46:33 IIRC I used TTS on 386/25 or something like that. Apr 24 19:46:47 ...and you could run TTS on XT... given "bad enough" TTS. Apr 24 19:46:50 * koen|gprs uses flite on his n770 to read the directions Apr 24 19:47:09 koen|gprs: is there any particular reason why mokomakefile should not be used? Apr 24 19:47:14 makes things easier, it seems Apr 24 19:47:21 * SpeedEvil tries to remember the person on #freenode-social that reads text with tts at 600wpm. Apr 24 19:47:45 Moo^^: if you hadn't used it, you would have read gettingstarted and wouldn't have asked your question Apr 24 19:47:57 Ah - yes, tsp. Apr 24 19:48:00 ten words a second is nuts fast Apr 24 19:48:06 Indeed. Apr 24 19:48:14 He's got the motivation though. Apr 24 19:48:17 ..but yes, it would be nice to have flite by default on openmoko. It would enable some interesting tricks. Apr 24 19:48:19 tts = text-to-speech? Apr 24 19:48:22 koen|gprs: actually, the information was on MokomakeFile wiki page too. after getting your hint about local.conf I found it there Apr 24 19:48:23 * peepsalot thinks about the micro-machine man Apr 24 19:48:23 Yes. Apr 24 19:48:50 my brain got used to japanese speaking speed, but accelerated native language would still be harder Apr 24 19:51:06 openmoko: 03andrew * r1825 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (Makefile.target hw/usb-net.c hw/usb.h vl.c): Initial Linux gadgetfs support. Fix usb-net USB config descriptors. Apr 24 19:51:22 are there any client side translation apps on par with babelfish? Apr 24 19:52:28 openmoko: 03andrew * r1826 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c: Gadgetfs support - Include the important file this time. Apr 24 19:53:20 Openmoko kernel tree should have been merged (IIUC) to mach-s3c2410... but I can't find that tree anywhere :-( Apr 24 20:00:35 Can anyone helpme? Apr 24 20:01:13 No clue, sorry. Apr 24 20:02:26 * koen|gprs mentions 'google' Apr 24 20:02:44 not a well known site on IRC, though Apr 24 20:04:09 i always forget how to spell it :-P Apr 24 20:07:04 google does not help :-(. s3c2410 is not good search term. Apr 24 20:13:13 when will the rootfs image for qemu at the buildhost be updated? Apr 24 20:15:27 maybe I should ask is it trivial to build my own image? Apr 24 20:21:14 pavelm: I don't see where you can find such a tree. Remember about the neo1973 vs gta01 in the mach-type stuff ? [ and the patch adding the mach-gta01.c file has been discarded but you should have got a mail about that ] Apr 24 20:22:13 rtp: Ben told me he already merged openmoko patches into his c2410 tree... but I can't find his tree anywhere. Apr 24 20:22:53 pavelm_afc: iirc fluff's tree is not available on the net Apr 24 20:22:55 I tried patching 2.6.21-rc5 (or so) with openmoko patches, but resulting code will not boot. Apr 24 20:23:17 fluff == Ben's nick? Apr 24 20:23:28 * rtp is running 21-rc3 on his neo Apr 24 20:23:31 yeah Apr 24 20:24:11 I think I need to compile my own kernels, so that I can include mmc driver and boot off it. Apr 24 20:24:15 Vegar: May be trivial, may not be... your mileage varies Apr 24 20:24:34 rtp: Could you generate diff between -rc3 and neo tree and mail it to me? Apr 24 20:24:47 ..there's good chance it will work on -rc7. Apr 24 20:25:14 my email is pavel at suse ... cz Apr 24 20:26:54 hmm... I'm using my -h1940 tree as basis so I fear that the patch will be too big :/ Apr 24 20:27:25 pavelm_afc: install openembedded and 'bitbake virtual/kernel'? Apr 24 20:27:47 (openembedded is at http://openembedded.org) Apr 24 20:29:45 I guess I'm lost in the maze of kernel trees, all alike :-) Apr 24 20:32:33 kone: I could just pull 2.6.20 tree and apply patches to that. Apr 24 20:32:42 ...unfortunately that does not help with development. Apr 24 20:32:46 ...but I guess I'll just do that. Apr 24 20:34:48 morning Apr 24 20:35:05 so, accelerometers, hey? Apr 24 20:35:22 (and Sean using MokoMakefile) Apr 24 20:35:25 mmMMMmmmmm... gta02 Apr 24 20:35:33 hey rwhitby-treo Apr 24 20:35:44 rwhitby-treo: I just noticed you're an nslu2 linux guy :) Apr 24 20:36:17 any other news in the last couple of days? Apr 24 20:37:42 well, I founded and lead that project, so yeah :-) Apr 24 20:37:57 rwhitby-treo: um, ok Apr 24 20:38:21 rwhitby-treo: So, I have 2 of them, and I wanted to get Plan 9 on it. Is the code in OE, or do I need this ridiculous monotone file? Apr 24 20:38:40 MacNorthOSX: gta02 specs leaked? or just the acellerometer bit? Apr 24 20:39:22 harald in the accelerometer thread (paraphrased) -- all future plans include them :-) Apr 24 20:41:30 dho: if you have OE .dev head, then you have all the code. if you just want kernel and related stuff, see trac.nslu2-linux.org for pointers to our svn repos. Apr 24 20:42:36 MacNorthOSX: ok, so nothing juicier in IRC than what I've read on the lists ... Apr 24 20:42:53 correct Apr 24 20:43:31 dho: we'll be happy to host a plan9 on nslu2 project on nslu2-linux.org ... Apr 24 20:45:13 dho: (but we should discuss that over in #nslu2-linux, not here) Apr 24 21:05:37 hi rwhitby-treo. i am doing my first openmoko build with mokomakefile. this step is taking forever: package glibc-2.5-r4: task do_populate_staging: started Apr 24 21:05:40 normal? Apr 24 21:05:51 yeah, that's a long one Apr 24 21:06:06 does it build glib or what? Apr 24 21:06:11 yes Apr 24 21:06:23 yep Apr 24 21:06:29 fekkin' OSX window-focus behaviour Apr 24 21:06:34 it's strange, since it looks like there is no CPU activity Apr 24 21:07:01 'forever' is a relative term when building OE stuff :-) Apr 24 21:07:31 probably doing locales stuff Apr 24 21:07:52 could it possible to configure to build english only locale to cut build time? Apr 24 21:08:05 relative easily, i mean Apr 24 21:08:46 that may cut 1-2% of the entire build time :-D Apr 24 21:08:56 not until OM syncs with OE head Apr 24 21:10:10 hehe Apr 24 21:11:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Messages]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[MokoMakefile]] Apr 24 21:24:58 * rwhitby-treo goes back to his holiday Apr 24 21:33:52 good night, I should get some sleep. Apr 24 21:34:41 nite pavel Apr 24 21:37:07 (I managed to start another suspend2 flamewar, so it will be interesting night) Apr 24 22:05:45 what is this about accelerometers? Apr 24 22:09:43 kito_: it's "must" feature for future phones Apr 24 22:09:50 you can do all kind of kinky stuff with them Apr 24 22:09:56 e.g. scroll web pages by tilting phone Apr 24 22:10:12 measure amount of your walking Apr 24 22:10:15 and so on Apr 24 22:11:40 I know, I do robotics research Apr 24 22:11:50 yeah, juts like wifi - an essential part of a phone Apr 24 22:12:00 but someone said something about accelerometers in gta02? Apr 24 22:12:04 what's that all about? Apr 24 22:12:13 you won't hear anything from the speaker if you don't have an accelerometer and a camera Apr 24 22:12:41 I have both sitting here on my desk here somewhere ;-P Apr 24 22:13:00 in fact, I should have a 3-axis accelerometer here somewhere Apr 24 22:14:14 kito_: 3-axis accelerometers are still rare? Apr 24 22:14:53 [23:39:24] harald in the accelerometer thread (paraphrased) -- all future plans include them :-) Apr 24 22:15:15 no, they're actually pretty cheap these days Apr 24 22:15:20 handy buggers Apr 24 22:16:27 * Moo^^ adds his to do list to create a 3d PC mouse using the future hw Apr 24 22:16:56 http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=371539&Row=422351&Site=US Apr 24 22:17:04 that chip might be useful Apr 24 23:26:19 * SpeedEvil sighs. Apr 24 23:26:26 Accelerometer datasheets suck. Apr 24 23:27:09 Freescale one I'm reading doesn't give any sources of error, other than supply voltage and random noise. Apr 24 23:27:44 So if it's correct, and I stick on a 20 bit A/D, I can get positions good to within a meter or so after a day. Apr 24 23:30:10 hah Apr 24 23:30:16 I'd like to see that Apr 24 23:30:24 our IMU goes crappy every second or so Apr 24 23:30:44 of course I think it's only 12-bit internally Apr 24 23:31:30 Indeed. The AD part - which it seems similar to - at least mentions the horrible temperature coefficient. Apr 24 23:33:09 An actual decent IMU in a phone would be moderately interesting. Say 1m drift after 20 mins. Apr 24 23:33:19 Not remotely possible ATM though. Apr 24 23:45:10 * SpeedEvil contemplates new accellerometer feature. Apr 24 23:45:19 As it detects freefall, it screams. Apr 24 23:46:04 what would an accelerometer in a phone be usefull for Apr 24 23:46:09 haha Apr 24 23:46:18 Basically detecting orientation. Apr 24 23:46:22 AAAAH... I'm gonnna Dieeeee Apr 24 23:46:27 Which is another user input. Apr 24 23:46:45 Can be anything from just orienting the screen, to gaming, to ... Apr 24 23:46:53 Even text input. Apr 24 23:47:03 pretty much any kind of interfacing thing which could depend on the phone's orientation Apr 24 23:47:05 cool Apr 24 23:47:21 the simplest being switching from landscape to portrait mode and back Apr 24 23:47:28 k Apr 24 23:47:30 Also detecting if it's picked up or on a stationary table. Apr 24 23:47:46 damnit. Why do all phones suck so much? Apr 24 23:47:46 For example, it may only lock if you put it down. Apr 24 23:47:51 but not if you're carrying it around. Apr 24 23:47:59 will they put one on the openmoko Apr 24 23:48:07 Not the first version. Apr 24 23:48:15 Though mine will grow one. Apr 24 23:48:20 heh Apr 24 23:48:34 I was thinking about trying to hook one in through the USB interface Apr 24 23:48:35 It's got I2C, so is easy to glue stuff to. Apr 24 23:48:49 I2C is going to be exposed on solderable-to pads on P1. Apr 24 23:48:54 I really want to use the phone as a mobile platform for testing and datalogging robotics sensors Apr 24 23:49:06 ooh, that's even better than USB Apr 24 23:49:13 Indeed, for some stuff. Apr 24 23:49:21 Even works in 'slow' mode. Apr 24 23:49:23 although sparkfun has a bluetooth IMU Apr 24 23:49:30 cool Apr 24 23:49:46 Just wish that semiconductor gyros were as cheap as accelerometers. Apr 24 23:50:04 the gyros aren't too bad Apr 24 23:50:07 Cameras will help with that eventually. Apr 24 23:50:24 True - but $150 for 3 axes, compared to $5 for accelerometers. Apr 24 23:51:13 $150? for what IC? Apr 24 23:51:33 I mean that one axis is around $50 Apr 24 23:51:43 I haven't seen a 3 axes gyro chip. Apr 24 23:52:33 have you seen the IDG300? Apr 24 23:53:40 Oh - right, no I hadn't. Apr 24 23:54:27 It's good stuff - I suppose Apr 24 23:54:37 I haven't had time to do a lot of testing with it Apr 24 23:54:55 * SpeedEvil needs sleep. Apr 24 23:54:56 Night. Apr 24 23:55:01 'nite Apr 25 00:06:14 nice status update Apr 25 00:06:53 congrats to Kaloz Apr 25 00:30:37 damn Apr 25 00:30:45 so nothing until june... Apr 25 00:31:37 anyone know any other phones that are at least a little hackable? I need something to hold me over Apr 25 00:31:38 Yay a status update. Apr 25 00:32:39 You can always get something from Motorola. Apr 25 00:33:11 I was looking at the A1200, but I hear it uses SELinux and is locked down pretty hard Apr 25 00:33:19 Just wondering, sean is never on this channel? Apr 25 00:33:35 I'm not sure, but I think people are starting to run custom kernels on it. Apr 25 00:34:20 kito_: Well, I've looked at the Nokia E61 (which are getting to be slightly cheaper, because they released an E61i with a camera), it's Symbian S60, meaning you've got at least a working python installation on it. Apr 25 00:34:49 seen him once only, many weeks ago. Apr 25 00:37:23 yacc: could be nice, thanks for the tip Apr 25 00:38:14 * yacc guesses that he has now a huge backlog of email, ... Apr 25 00:46:26 Hm, where's the update? Am I overlooking something on the mailing list? Apr 25 01:19:36 any developers in here? Apr 25 01:19:36 PiTT: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 25 01:19:38 i have a question Apr 25 01:19:53 is this software only made for touchscreen devices? Apr 25 01:20:00 or can it be run on a non-touch screen? Apr 25 01:20:23 You mean mouse-driven or just keys? Apr 25 01:20:52 It's obviously going to be geared towards touchscreens, but it's still GTK so keyboards and mice will work just as well. Apr 25 01:20:58 just keys Apr 25 01:21:14 like a non TS device Apr 25 01:21:37 Like a classic phone? Apr 25 01:21:42 sure Apr 25 01:21:51 and what are minimum specs required? Apr 25 01:22:15 I'm sure the software can be ported, but it's going to need some tailoring. Apr 25 01:22:27 Ported is not the right word, adapted is, I guess. Apr 25 01:22:28 i work for a OEM Apr 25 01:22:32 we have a phone coming out Apr 25 01:22:37 and we can do TS Apr 25 01:22:44 but this phone is just, well a phone Apr 25 01:22:53 and want to avoid touch screen if at all possible Apr 25 01:23:58 who would i speak to about this? Apr 25 01:24:12 Best post it on the mailing list, I guess. Apr 25 01:24:27 ok Apr 25 01:24:31 thanks for your help Apr 25 01:24:37 do you know minimum specs needed? Apr 25 01:24:40 No problem. Apr 25 01:24:43 will it run on a omap 200mhz? Apr 25 01:25:01 Probably, from what I've heard, RAM is much more important. Apr 25 01:25:29 64MB enough? Apr 25 01:25:33 i'm assuming so Apr 25 01:26:28 64MB is going to be very tight, unless drastic optimizations can be found. Apr 25 01:27:25 hmm ok Apr 25 01:27:34 what is the biggest difference between this and Qtopia? Apr 25 01:27:39 Also, if you don't have a 640x480 screen, it's going to need a lot of work as well. People are probably going to adapt things to 320x240 but that's probably going to take a while. Apr 25 01:27:45 i've spoken to a few people at trolltech so far Apr 25 01:27:50 but i want to get as much info Apr 25 01:28:02 as possible Apr 25 01:28:09 For one, it's X11-based, and it uses "real" GTK as opposed to an embedded version. Apr 25 01:28:35 this is commpletely open source correct? Apr 25 01:28:36 So porting should be easier, and in theory, a lot of apps should run out of the box (though they might not make sense on a phone). Apr 25 01:28:44 Yep Apr 25 01:28:55 so carriers wouldn't mess with this Apr 25 01:29:41 Not likely... it's open source so in theory they could... under certain circumstances. But you'd be able to flash your phone anyway so I doubt anyone will. Apr 25 01:31:11 I'm 100% sure FIC won't condone it, though... so a carrier would have to do it on their own account. Apr 25 01:31:18 Which is even more unlikely. Apr 25 01:32:16 well, openmoko is a software platform, theoretically FIC have little control over what people can and can't do with it Apr 25 01:32:51 True, but it's still GPL so it'd be very hard to close it up without violating that. Apr 25 01:33:28 as long as they release the source, they'd still be able to put in arbitrary restrictions Apr 25 01:33:48 And locking stuff up while releasing the source at the same time hasn't yet proven to be very viable or even useful. Apr 25 01:34:12 i'm sure most of the poeple here would have no problem reflashing it to the default software, but the general public might not hav as easy a time Apr 25 01:34:18 True Apr 25 01:35:24 But I don't see FIC distributing these phones to carriers that are potentially non-friendly to the OS community. Apr 25 01:36:14 the neo is also being sold as a windows ce device iirc Apr 25 01:36:25 Are you sure about that? Apr 25 01:36:39 that was the plan, i dont know if they still are going to Apr 25 01:37:09 apparently its designed around a phone they've built for the chinese government or something Apr 25 01:55:10 Hello! Do you have ever use qemu for openmoko? Apr 25 01:55:10 chen: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 25 01:56:53 Is this a mobile phone or a phone operating system? Apr 25 01:56:53 armyriad: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 25 01:57:38 armyriad: its a operating system Apr 25 01:58:14 Now I have run qemu for openmoko already. But I don't know how to login openmoko. Apr 25 01:58:23 $350 for an operating system!? Apr 25 01:58:31 heh Apr 25 01:58:44 $350 for the neo1973 phone which runs it Apr 25 01:58:51 Can't you just use a modified Linux? Apr 25 01:59:57 lol Apr 25 01:59:59 What do you think Openmoko is? :D Apr 25 02:01:40 armyriad: its about both in practice: Neo1973 is $350 phone and OpenMoko is software (which you can download now) Apr 25 02:01:49 Oh. Apr 25 02:02:17 FAQ answers this and many other questions ;-) Apr 25 02:03:20 all P0 devs and P1-interested folks should check the announce ML if they didn't already do so Apr 25 02:03:56 "we can finally Apr 25 02:03:56 start to move out of engineering sample mode and into real production!" Apr 25 02:03:58 =) Apr 25 02:05:40 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Status update on the phones? and 1 other mails Apr 25 02:05:41 (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte Re: Power management concept... and 3 other mails Apr 25 02:09:40 (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz [openmoko-announce] Some light ahead... Apr 25 02:09:40 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Some light ahead... Apr 25 02:09:40 (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger Re: Bricked? Apr 25 02:10:28 hmm.. firefox being backgrounded blocked gconf... again Apr 25 02:10:51 s/backgrounded/suspended Apr 25 02:11:05 s"backgrounded"suspended" Apr 25 02:11:09 hmm.. it doesn't know this ;-) Apr 25 02:19:18 * aloril wonders what is suitable uncertainty? Apr 25 02:19:53 2007-05-10 .. 2007-05-17 ? Apr 25 02:19:55 CoreDump|home: thanks Apr 25 02:20:31 np Apr 25 02:20:55 counter Apr 25 02:20:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 (uncertainty is guess): 2 weeks, 5 days 21:39:02 (19.902 +-3.5 days) (1002;179) Apr 25 02:25:01 hey aloril Apr 25 02:25:12 hi ppc970 Apr 25 02:25:27 i just read the update e-mail from Sean... Apr 25 02:25:35 previous guess was reasonable it seems, end date for it was 2007-05-14, now its 2007-04-17 Apr 25 02:25:42 When Sean talks about 'next product', he means another phase, or a second generation? Apr 25 02:25:50 so real change is reducing uncertainty ;-) Apr 25 02:26:50 It seems that WiFi wouldn't make it :( Apr 25 02:27:22 it was never planned for P1 AFAIC Apr 25 02:27:36 i know that Apr 25 02:27:50 ah, I think it means P1.5? Apr 25 02:28:05 do you? Apr 25 02:28:12 have suspicion it won't be at June though Apr 25 02:28:17 guess of course ;-) Apr 25 02:28:36 he said "We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product." Apr 25 02:28:58 yeah, does he mean P1.5, P2 or v2? Apr 25 02:29:29 first, i got doubt... Apr 25 02:29:32 now, i don't know Apr 25 02:29:36 heh Apr 25 02:29:37 (P1.5 is probably same as P2 which is different hardware revision) Apr 25 02:30:25 wifi support means board redesign, i guess Apr 25 02:30:33 GTA02 vs GTA01v4 Apr 25 02:30:49 yes it does Apr 25 02:31:29 so I think May==GTA01v4 Apr 25 02:32:09 next product GTA02 (which is still Neo1973, except faster CPU and WiFi (don't know about other potential changes)) Apr 25 02:32:47 well, we got the qemu emulator in the time being :) Apr 25 02:33:39 hmm.. not yet here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/thread.html Apr 25 02:34:21 here it is: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-April/004926.html Apr 25 02:34:44 i don't know why it doesn't appears in the announce archive Apr 25 02:37:20 neither here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-March/thread.html Apr 25 02:37:29 what about a camera on the openmoko? Apr 25 02:37:38 ah, thread not updated, hmm.. Apr 25 02:37:49 what are the chances of one?\ Apr 25 02:37:54 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html Apr 25 02:38:25 wehttamb__: probably good for some model next year? (pure guess of course, I have no idea or hints of this) Apr 25 02:38:42 we will know more when mass marked of Neo1973 is released Apr 25 02:38:42 ok Apr 25 02:38:49 afaik a camera is not planned Apr 25 02:38:51 ie.. Neo1973 won't have camera, but some future model? Apr 25 02:39:02 at least not in any of the models whose names are known now Apr 25 02:39:40 balrog-kun: are all models that will be announced at September already known? Apr 25 02:39:42 wat about with the usb port would it be possible to connect a cammera to the phone Apr 25 02:40:57 aloril: to me the only known names are GTA01, 02 and the HXD8 :p Apr 25 02:41:10 a usb camera with the phone? Apr 25 02:41:16 yea Apr 25 02:41:20 get a real camera then! Apr 25 02:41:20 would that be possible Apr 25 02:41:21 :) Apr 25 02:41:53 but could u connect it to the phone and copy your photos to the phone Apr 25 02:42:07 it must be self-powered... Apr 25 02:42:28 ok Apr 25 02:42:33 i think that would be doable Apr 25 02:43:06 in 2 years cameras will run Linux too and will have GSM modems builtin, Apr 25 02:43:07 :P Apr 25 02:43:07 so you will copy pictures from them without bothering with USB Apr 25 02:43:20 that would be good Apr 25 02:43:50 well... put your camera SD memory on your phone, and it´s done ;) Apr 25 02:43:52 IF the camera has linux and gsm, who needs a neo? :D Apr 25 02:44:04 balrog-kun: OK, I think there were like 5 models planned and HXD8 covers only one of those Apr 25 02:44:09 but wat if the camera doesnt use SD Apr 25 02:44:23 camera? Apr 25 02:44:23 There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Also see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Apr 25 02:44:24 Then you bought a crappy Sony cam ;) Apr 25 02:44:26 then throw your sony :P Apr 25 02:44:31 Hah Apr 25 02:44:35 heh Apr 25 02:44:43 k Apr 25 02:44:46 i hate this vaio laptop Apr 25 02:44:49 lol Apr 25 02:45:01 I like vaios, but memory stick isn't particularly appealing. Apr 25 02:45:05 * SuN has 2 vaios Apr 25 02:45:32 need 2 things: battery powered HUB and suitable USB cables, then anything that works in desktop Linux PC should work Apr 25 02:46:02 that is cool Apr 25 02:46:16 "I think I’m allowed to tell you that we worked on the design of two Neo1973 successors and we came up with something really unique and exciting… Apr 25 02:46:16 " from http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/04/10/openmoko-coreteam-in-frankfurtmain/ Apr 25 02:46:48 so I would say answer is unknown, but personally I would guess some model will include camera ;-) Apr 25 02:47:11 anyway, wait for September for actual info instead of pure guesses Apr 25 02:47:23 ok Apr 25 02:50:17 haven't seen any feature freezes for OpenMoko yet? Apr 25 02:53:17 if you can plug any device that works on linux on usb into the phones usb port can you use an usb printer with the phone Apr 25 02:53:26 that would be awesome Apr 25 02:56:32 yeah, its Linux: think Pentium 133 or so machines with 128MB of RAM, but a bit more up to date Linux distribution (OpenMoko) Apr 25 02:56:54 or external USB harddisks, etc.. Apr 25 02:57:25 (might want to have battery powered version, but there exists battery powered USB disks up to 160GB at least) Apr 25 02:57:58 hmm... I wonder is this holds anymore: "FIC can make as many phones as developers can buy. There might be 6 week delay at most if estimate is wrong. [5]" Apr 25 02:58:08 maybe that is for June date now and not for May date Apr 25 02:58:20 * aloril hopes he gets enough early in preorder when they become available **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 25 02:59:56 2007