**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 29 02:59:56 2007 Apr 29 03:07:29 counter Apr 29 03:07:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 20:52:28 (15.870 +-3.5 days) (1042;185) Apr 29 03:10:10 openmoko: 03laforge * r1865 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.20.x/: branch off 2.6.20.x patches, before main patchset gets merged with 2.6.21.x Apr 29 03:12:52 successfully built the openmoko image Apr 29 03:15:44 deepan1: got hardware to put it on? Apr 29 03:17:01 no not yet Apr 29 03:17:20 what must be the next steps that i should take Apr 29 03:17:47 Buy a Neo1973. :) Apr 29 03:19:00 :) Apr 29 03:20:55 Just spent my Neo money on a ViewSonic 22" monitor. Apr 29 03:24:33 resolution? Apr 29 03:35:16 counter Apr 29 03:35:16 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 20:24:41 (15.850 +-3.5 days) (1043;186) Apr 29 03:46:39 <|Sticky|> dear lord, make openmoko-devel-image takes forever Apr 29 05:18:33 !ombug 527 Apr 29 05:18:34 * * Bug 527, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Apr 29 05:18:35 * * oe(AT)hentges.net: The BlueTooth broadcast ID is set wrong (patch) Apr 29 05:18:36 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=527 Apr 29 06:18:08 hello World! Apr 29 06:18:34 wow! there is a lot of people here :-) Apr 29 06:20:51 * aloril2 wonders when pre-order page is up or further announcement happens Apr 29 06:40:31 hi Apr 29 06:43:40 arnor: well, if you cg Apr 29 06:43:53 arnor: well, if you greet the whole world, don't be surprised there are many [on that] ;) Apr 29 06:44:02 LaF0rge: :) Apr 29 06:44:23 LaF0rge: I just discovered OpenMoko on yesterday Apr 29 06:44:50 LaF0rge: and I'm just searching for some infos about it Apr 29 06:44:52 ;) Apr 29 06:45:06 arnor: the wiki contains almost anything there is to know about it Apr 29 06:45:15 LaF0rge: thx Apr 29 06:45:47 but I just wanted to see the size of the OpenMoko comunity :) Apr 29 06:55:45 arnor: as with any foss project, there is no good estimate. the announce list has 3800 subscribers, the community list roughly 1200 Apr 29 06:56:35 LaF0rge: ok Apr 29 06:56:51 I think that OpenMoko is a great project Apr 29 07:06:02 good morning Apr 29 07:09:49 Hopscotch: morning :) Apr 29 07:10:08 huhu :) Apr 29 07:10:24 er ... what's up doc ? ;-) Apr 29 07:11:06 :P Apr 29 07:11:41 anyone here know about open-source GPS regarding ITAR restrictions (as per last question here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS) Apr 29 07:13:02 i guess the agps is too stupid to mind the restrictions Apr 29 07:13:35 and i'm pretty sure that the restrictions are inside the user mode blob Apr 29 07:14:28 so if we reverse the protocol and create an open source agpsd, we have to take care of that ourselves Apr 29 07:15:38 right. so ATM the gpsd plugin will use a binary blob to enforce those restrictions? Apr 29 07:15:38 hugo_nz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 29 07:16:23 thanks Apr 29 07:16:24 hugo_nz: yeah, global locate seems to provide some object code for that Apr 29 07:17:01 is an open source replacement on the cards? e.g. with code from http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/ or http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/ Apr 29 07:17:18 and is the binary output format from the hammerhead documented? Apr 29 07:17:19 no, nobody knows how the agps works so far Apr 29 07:17:23 nope Apr 29 07:17:28 all we have is an strace Apr 29 07:18:26 ah. thats a pity. i'm not sure if the devel community had come across those open source GPS efforts before, but they should in theory be able to calculate the navigation solution from the output of the hammerhead Apr 29 07:18:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead_protocol Apr 29 07:20:26 http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/ in particular runs on embedded hardware - the CPU inside a typical non-assisted receiver - and it's inputs are the correlator outputs (the same as I assume the hammerhead outputs) Apr 29 07:21:16 the hammerhead does some framing tough Apr 29 07:22:41 but am i correct that the hammerhead chipset doesn't actually do the nav solution (i.e. is dumb) Apr 29 07:23:09 yes, no nmea but only binary data which seems nearly unprocessed Apr 29 07:23:54 thanks for the link to the strace logs. I'll have a look through them, and check in agian later Apr 29 07:24:16 bye Apr 29 07:24:19 :) Apr 29 07:26:08 (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte Re: Handling multiple connections Apr 29 07:41:53 Hi Apr 29 07:42:02 counter Apr 29 07:42:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 16:17:56 (15.679 +-3.5 days) (1044;186) Apr 29 08:19:19 has anyone tried the headphones p0 devices shipped with? any good for music? Apr 29 08:21:21 I _very_ vaguely remember someone saying on IRC that they were rubbish. Apr 29 08:21:50 However, check logs. Apr 29 08:43:54 i would have been surprised if they werent ;) Apr 29 08:44:29 to be fair, tho, some of the SE phones ship with quite useable ones Apr 29 08:56:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead_protocol]] Apr 29 08:57:54 SpeedEvil: now you got my position :) Apr 29 09:12:05 :) Apr 29 09:12:23 Unless you've been cunningly altering the data. Apr 29 09:13:07 Just writing up basic 'FAQ' data on what the hammerhead may be doing when it locks up. Apr 29 09:14:13 19s to get satellites locked, another 22s to generate a position. Apr 29 09:14:32 Possibly interesting other test cases. Apr 29 09:16:24 A similar log from 6-12 hours later in the day - so differnet satellites are in view - this will help with init cases. And maybe somewhere that there is _no_ signal. In addition - cold start would be nice. Apr 29 09:17:01 Though maybe much more can be extracted from this one. Apr 29 09:18:22 right now i'm proofreading thomas' diploma thesis Apr 29 09:18:30 after that i'm free for more hammerhead fun Apr 29 09:18:49 i revived the p0 phone yesterday as the battery was drained again... Apr 29 09:19:23 despite of koen abi remarks i will try to run gltt on the phone :) Apr 29 09:30:08 Good luck. Apr 29 09:30:27 :) Apr 29 09:30:35 i guess koen is pretty right :) Apr 29 09:30:48 Be funny if the GPL driver arrived before the GL one :) Apr 29 09:32:16 from what i saw in the gltt binary, gl doesn't even ship source code Apr 29 09:32:24 Sounds likely. Apr 29 09:32:48 only object files which need some kind of hal to work on a specific platform Apr 29 09:33:41 * SpeedEvil ponders a HAL1973 mode. With the glowing red eye. Apr 29 09:33:59 rofl Apr 29 09:34:14 "good morning, .*evil" :) Apr 29 09:37:20 Interesting. My GPS-12 warm-starts faster than the tomtom. Apr 29 09:38:26 i guess this wasn't exactly a warmstart Apr 29 09:38:41 i killed the running daemon and restarted it with strace attached Apr 29 09:40:13 I assume some of the files it's reading are ephemirides, or almanac. Apr 29 09:40:17 And it's got the time. Apr 29 09:40:26 So it's probably not a cold start. Apr 29 09:41:43 yeah, i guess it was something in between Apr 29 09:42:01 i should post the ephemirides as well Apr 29 10:19:44 hmmmm... www.rwhitby.net seems to be down and svn.nslu2-linux.org as well Apr 29 10:20:09 Hopscotch: not from here. Apr 29 10:20:40 not good. internet broken. Apr 29 10:21:08 traceroute to 66.159.209.60 Apr 29 10:22:24 ok, my isp's routing seems to be broken Apr 29 10:22:35 from my shell-machine the trace succeeds... Apr 29 10:57:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Hammerhead_protocol]] Apr 29 11:21:17 hi Apr 29 11:50:28 counter Apr 29 11:50:28 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 12:09:30 (15.507 +-3.5 days) (1045;186) Apr 29 12:34:53 Does anyone know what Opera thinks about OpenMoko? Will there be a hope to get Opera on the Neo? Apr 29 12:35:14 why would we need opera? Apr 29 12:35:18 we can run free browsers Apr 29 12:35:24 firefox? Apr 29 12:35:30 webkit Apr 29 12:35:38 i think there is an ARM opera build available Apr 29 12:35:43 i didn't know that, but try Apr 29 12:35:56 i don't remember what device i've seen it running on Apr 29 12:36:03 firefox had nochance? Apr 29 12:36:08 but it should run on openmoko Apr 29 12:36:40 balrog-kun: N770 has opera iirc Apr 29 12:36:48 operamini, not? Apr 29 12:36:51 We can run FF, and most of the owners propably will, but Opera has some great things going for it when surfing the web on small screens, and I really like it :) Apr 29 12:37:27 LarstiQ: ok, then it should run on OpenMoko Apr 29 12:37:30 but opera would destroy the whole concept Apr 29 12:37:37 its not free after all Apr 29 12:38:08 yeah :/ Apr 29 12:38:14 Nebukadneza: Freedom is also about being able to run the applications you WANT... Apr 29 12:38:14 webkit only for macosx, as i see Apr 29 12:38:34 GaKkGaKk: no since you destroy the freedom of thers with that Apr 29 12:38:38 MetaMorfoziS: ehm, not afaik Apr 29 12:38:39 or is .dmg's runnable under linux? Apr 29 12:38:44 and the global further-development of free software Apr 29 12:38:52 thus the abaility of others to use free osftware Apr 29 12:39:19 or the availability of free software so others can use it Apr 29 12:40:24 sup, afk for food ;P Apr 29 12:40:37 I agree if Opera was to become some kind of "default" webbrowser for the Moko, but that is not going to happen... And as far as I see it, running "non-free" software on a "free" phone really does nothing to destroy the freedom of other software... Apr 29 12:40:53 a usecase example: Apr 29 12:41:18 Nebukadneza: Don't let me starve you... Food first, then discussion! Apr 29 12:41:18 somera needed to be in "restricted" repo, thats all.. Apr 29 12:41:25 imho it doesn't affect other people's freedom, it's just giving up your own freedom Apr 29 12:41:31 1) you use firefox. many others use firefox. you discover a bug in firefox, you file it, others benefit of it Apr 29 12:41:36 2) you use opera Apr 29 12:41:50 you found a bug, then you banned from #opera Apr 29 12:41:52 see how you can slow down development? Apr 29 12:41:54 food first, then freedom ;) Apr 29 12:41:56 (own experience) Apr 29 12:42:05 , you file a bug, Opera fixes it... and they are quite good at it too... Apr 29 12:42:37 Free food, then ... Apr 29 12:42:40 :) Apr 29 12:42:44 GaKkGaKk: Nebukadneza's point is that you take resources away from free browsers Apr 29 12:43:01 sure, but there are people who cant use opera since it can never be secure (for example) - those people will benefit from a patch for firefox - not from a patch for some proprietary insecure thing Apr 29 12:43:08 LarstiQ: exactly Apr 29 12:43:49 sup, but now food ;P Apr 29 12:44:24 well, this is a correct argument but not very convincing Apr 29 12:45:07 bugreports are not that huge a contribution to firefox, and for most people it works just ok most of the time Apr 29 12:45:24 LarstiQ: Nebukadneza: Then I agree, partly... But to say that one *should* use software that one does not like, to help it get better, becuse others like it...(or because it's the "moral" thing to do), Is not quite in my definition of freedom... Apr 29 12:45:34 worst part about opera is if you dont like how it does something, you're screwed Apr 29 12:46:06 free as in freedom plz Apr 29 12:47:47 it's not doubt close-source software sucks, but i don't believe you're taking away other people's freedom when you use opera on your phone Apr 29 12:48:57 Choice is good. Anyway, if noone has heard about it, and Google doesn't know, I will assume they haven't said anything about it yet. Will there be a stylus shipped with all the Neos? Apr 29 12:49:49 Well, you ain't helping freedom by using opera, whereas you would by using a free browser. Whether that's the same as hurting freedom is semantical nitpicking. Apr 29 12:49:54 i don't know, but no place holded for stylus in neo... Apr 29 12:51:08 well, right Apr 29 12:51:21 GaKkGaKk: as i said, opera should run on OpenMoko unmodified i think Apr 29 12:53:35 balrog-kun: Thanks, I would have thought so, Since browsing on mobile devices and small screens seem to be Operas niche, it should be interesting for them to get users on OpenMoko too. Apr 29 12:55:43 GaKkGaKk: I don't feel the same way about it as he does, but I'm familiar with the point he tries to make. Apr 29 12:56:04 GaKkGaKk: i dont say you should use software you dont like - you can use other free software you like or patch free software so it behaves as you like (i bet others will have similar preferences as you, so this is generally a very very good thing to do). Apr 29 12:56:24 but the thing is, as long as its free you will - in some way - contribute back Apr 29 12:56:57 and using nonfree software on free systems is unfair to the developers of that free system Apr 29 12:56:57 Nebukadneza: giving money to Opera helps keep their programmers alive. Apr 29 12:57:13 no, it doesn't Apr 29 12:57:29 LarstiQ: they could also write free software and charge for service and support - or write free software for companies asking for it Apr 29 12:57:33 at least not in a highly significant way Apr 29 12:57:35 well, the Neo1973 after all is a commercial product for $350 Apr 29 12:57:38 i know many doing so and leading a good live Apr 29 12:58:48 balrog-kun: the thing with hardware is a bit different Apr 29 12:58:53 AFAIK Opera programmers (mostly?) live in a civilized country where daily survival is not at issue, as well as the fact that they could most likely get other jobs if this one wasn't lucrative Apr 29 12:59:07 Nebukadneza: "and using nonfree software on free systems is unfair to the developers of that free system" <- Now THAT is where we disagree, but I have this strange feeling we might not convince each other.. Apr 29 12:59:20 Nebukadneza: yeah, but FIC is paying to a lot of software makers from that money Apr 29 12:59:44 Nebukadneza: they for sure aren't contributing back to all of the projects that they use but a part of them yeagh Apr 29 12:59:57 how is using opera on linux unfair to linux devs? Apr 29 13:00:00 mjr: I think all of the programmers live in Oslo, one of the most expencive cities in the world,... They *neeeeed* money to survive :D Apr 29 13:03:54 For something we might agree would be a good thing: Will Python come to OpenMoko? Apr 29 13:06:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Apr 29 13:42:06 GaKkGaKk, I'm sure it will. If it's not, I'll fix that. (-: Apr 29 13:42:13 * paulproteus hopes he isn't hung by those words Apr 29 13:42:22 * paulproteus quietly goes to bed Apr 29 13:44:12 paulproteus: My hero... :) Apr 29 13:47:11 i think it's already being worked on Apr 29 13:48:26 http://www.vivekkhurana.com/pymoko/2007/03/17/what-is-pymoko/ Apr 29 13:48:30 I've been playing with bluez and python on the computer, and a phone with d-bus, python and bluez would be great :)... And it will be :) Apr 29 15:06:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead_protocol]] Apr 29 15:20:45 openmoko: 03zecke * r1866 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (ChangeLog scripts/ scripts/prepare-ChangeLog): Apr 29 15:20:45 openmoko: 2007-04-29 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Apr 29 15:20:45 openmoko: * scripts/prepare-ChangeLog: Added. Play with automatic ChangeLog creation Apr 29 15:21:57 openmoko: 03zecke * r1867 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (ChangeLog src/rfcdate.c): Apr 29 15:21:57 openmoko: 2007-04-29 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Apr 29 15:21:57 openmoko: * src/rfcdate.c: Do not include malloc.h as this is not portable Apr 29 15:23:13 * aloril2 wonders if any P1 device has yet been shipped for P0 devs Apr 29 15:23:38 openmoko: 03zecke * r1868 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (ChangeLog src/rfcdate.h): Apr 29 15:23:38 openmoko: 2007-04-29 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Apr 29 15:23:38 openmoko: * src/rfcdate.h: Add a proper license header Apr 29 15:23:55 counter Apr 29 15:23:55 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 08:36:02 (15.358 +-3.5 days) (1046;187) Apr 29 15:28:52 aloril: no Apr 29 15:29:52 hahahaha Apr 29 15:36:37 openmoko: 03zecke * r1869 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (ChangeLog src/callbacks.c): Apr 29 15:36:37 openmoko: 2007-04-29 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Apr 29 15:36:37 openmoko: * src/callbacks.c: Update documentation, move it around Apr 29 15:36:37 openmoko: (feed_update_thread): Update documentation Apr 29 15:36:37 openmoko: (cb_treeview_selection_changed): make the string i18nable Apr 29 15:57:04 announcment said that there were 150 OK P1 devices and some will be shipped to P0 Apr 29 15:58:42 so I guess it should not take that long .. Apr 29 16:05:32 best thing about p1 is that we should get to hear about p1.5 ;) Apr 29 16:22:23 buz: I'm hoping that pre-order become available next week (and we hear also about P1.5) Apr 29 16:23:00 s:order:orders: Apr 29 16:24:44 openmoko: 03laforge * r1870 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/select.c: * compile fix (include sys/select.h) to make it build on *BSD (Holger Freyther) Apr 29 16:26:35 yeah me too Apr 29 16:41:32 openmoko: 03zecke * r1871 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (ChangeLog src/rfcdate.c): Apr 29 16:41:32 openmoko: 2007-04-29 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Apr 29 16:41:32 openmoko: * src/rfcdate.c: Handle wrong dates Apr 29 16:41:32 openmoko: (rss_rfc_date_set): If we can't parse set it to 26.01.1983 Apr 29 16:41:32 openmoko: (rss_rfc_date_compare): Check if the dates we pass to g_date_compae Apr 29 16:41:35 openmoko: are valid Apr 29 16:50:36 counter Apr 29 16:50:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 07:09:21 (15.298 +-3.5 days) (1047;187) Apr 29 16:52:27 tag Apr 29 17:05:05 If I buy a first run phone, mostly it would be to horse around with and support the project, how much of a discount could I expect when there is one available with a camera on board? Apr 29 17:05:05 There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Also see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Apr 29 17:05:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] Apr 29 17:05:45 * Tsingi assumes that that was a bot. Or a hell of a coincidence. Apr 29 17:06:11 good assumptions Apr 29 17:09:39 well, the bot sure is useful at times Apr 29 17:10:09 Tsingi: all those questions will be answered when P1 is ready Apr 29 17:11:06 Vegar: I'm fence sitting, have been for a while. Deciding whether or not to get one ASAP or wait. Apr 29 17:11:19 everyone is Apr 29 17:11:46 I suppose. Apr 29 17:12:00 Is there an XML lib in the core code? Apr 29 17:12:58 Tsingi: no, but there is libexpat and libxml2 Apr 29 17:13:54 I use libxml2 daily, thought it might be too big. Apr 29 17:17:23 yeah, libxml2 is huge Apr 29 17:18:45 and expat doesn't do any processing so your program becomes huge Apr 29 17:19:37 Right, it is, (libxml) it does every damned thing, but a smaller one would be more practical for a phone. Apr 29 17:19:42 Tsingi: the rss reader uses libnxml, so you might take a look at it Apr 29 17:20:01 and expat, yeah, it's a streaming parser isn't it? I don't think it builds a doc for you. Apr 29 17:21:37 right, you could say expat is heavy for what it does Apr 29 17:24:42 zecke: how is libnxml compared to libxml2? Apr 29 17:24:58 in terms of memory usage and speed Apr 29 17:27:16 Vegar: I don't know, it is just a dep of the RSS library :) Apr 29 17:27:34 Vegar: http://www2.autistici.org/bakunin//libnxml/doc/ Apr 29 17:27:40 I see Apr 29 17:27:43 I assume it is just another sax like parser Apr 29 17:28:13 Tsingi, note that there has only been talk of a possible discount for the p2 phone, which will not include a camera either Apr 29 17:28:29 Vegar: actually we pretty much know there wont be a cam this year Apr 29 17:29:07 sean said there wont be any retooling of the case Apr 29 17:30:05 yeah Apr 29 17:30:30 what about wifi, will there be wifi in P1.5? Apr 29 17:30:35 Vegar: most likely Apr 29 17:30:40 *sigh* Apr 29 17:30:45 those of us in corporate environments prefer phones without cameras. Apr 29 17:30:47 but we dont know for sure Apr 29 17:31:06 (if there wont be any wifi, i wont wait for p1.5 i guess) Apr 29 17:33:04 i wonder if they would slip p2 date Apr 29 17:33:41 zecke: how's html support for the rss reader coming along? Apr 29 17:35:00 nxml: 155k, xml2: 1,300k Apr 29 17:35:27 I'd say that's significant:) Apr 29 17:35:28 nice Apr 29 17:35:46 koen: HTML is overrated Apr 29 17:36:47 Just publish everything in SVG. Apr 29 17:36:56 then you have to figure out how to look at it. Apr 29 17:37:43 zecke: some research needed to see if we can use system libpng/libz instead of the mozilla png btw. Apr 29 17:37:53 er, wrong channel Apr 29 17:37:58 alp: :) Apr 29 17:38:55 moko ships cairo? Apr 29 17:39:09 alp: not yet Apr 29 17:39:26 depends on which distribution you install on your neo Apr 29 17:39:28 alp: but in a private discussion mickeyl said the final gui will ship with cairo Apr 29 17:39:30 i had to write some old-gtk+ compatibility code to get webkit working on the n800 Apr 29 17:39:35 the angstrom openmoko image has cairo Apr 29 17:39:42 ah, so it is old-gtk+ then? Apr 29 17:39:48 and gtk 2.10.10 Apr 29 17:40:09 alp: and the cairo folks work on a surface cache which koen's images short of uses already Apr 29 17:40:10 alp: depends on what you build openmoko against Apr 29 17:40:26 I build it against gtk 2.10.10 Apr 29 17:40:29 alp: the final code will use gtk >= 2.10.x Apr 29 17:40:38 zecke: optimist Apr 29 17:41:10 zecke: and you mean "preflashed image", not "code" Apr 29 17:41:19 it is such a shame i didn't get that moko, turns out i didn't reply to some mail about the phase 0 design flaw Apr 29 17:41:28 koen: well, I have mickeyl's word on that ;) Apr 29 17:41:50 Waiting on email confirmation from the GForge IFace. But it looks empty. Is there an emulator? Apr 29 17:41:57 alp: isn't collabora getting a neo? Apr 29 17:42:16 * zecke makes a link alp -> collabora Apr 29 17:42:17 Tsingi: you don't need an emulator Apr 29 17:42:46 koen: I finally know why the macbook has such a short battery life, my battery is broken :) Apr 29 17:43:02 then my battery is broken as well Apr 29 17:43:04 I suppose not, since it's just Linux, but it would be cool to have one. Apr 29 17:43:10 4 hours is laughable Apr 29 17:43:22 koen: well, did you see the sort of recall? Apr 29 17:43:25 koen: i think so. the webkit work is just a free-time thing for me, anyway Apr 29 17:43:52 koen: https://www.apple.com/support/macbook_macbookpro/batteryupdate/ Apr 29 17:45:03 Tsingi: Might wanna have a look at qemu Apr 29 17:47:24 abraxa__: Sorry, I was thinking of an emulator for the phone's presentation layer, not a CPU emulator. Apr 29 17:47:51 Same thing in this case Apr 29 17:47:53 koen: i'm signed up for a phase 1, anyway. it was just the 0 i missed out on. i did get to play with one at o-hand though, interesting stuff Apr 29 17:49:37 anyway, i'll get the old-gtk+ patch into webkit so it has a chance of building/running on these older toolchains Apr 29 17:54:53 I'm getting a little frustrated trying to find the code. GForge seems to be empty. I registered, and I checked my email addy, no email in 1/2hr+. Apr 29 17:55:54 Tsingi: What code? And GForge is broken as far as I know Apr 29 17:57:14 abraxa__: mostly just looking to browse it. I thought GForge might be broken. Apr 29 17:57:44 I see a not about browsing SVN, I spent a few days trying to get that to work and gave up. Apr 29 17:58:04 Tsingi: What's that "it"? Apr 29 17:58:38 It would be whatever is available, if that's nothing, then I have completed my quest:) Apr 29 17:59:45 Tsingi: I suppose you want to browse OpenMoko source then or GForce? They're two rather different things so I'm not sure which you're referring to Apr 29 18:00:59 GForge is what I found, I suppose that I want to go to the OpenMoko source then. Apr 29 18:03:31 openmoko can be checked out with svn Apr 29 18:03:43 and is completely unrelated to gforge Apr 29 18:03:50 Tsingi: http://svn.openmoko.org is fun to browse but http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile is recommended if you want to do more Apr 29 18:04:37 thanks Apr 29 18:05:06 I presume there are no plans to port the mesa libGL to the moko at this time? Apr 29 18:05:24 You're welcome - and just ask upfront next time to avoid misunderstandings ;) Apr 29 18:06:03 I was going to ask about the rendering library. Apr 29 18:06:09 eventually:) Apr 29 18:07:15 Hmm, I doubt that's an issue until an appropriate GFX chip can be found Apr 29 18:11:18 abraxa__: Ahh, I guess not. Graphics is what I do. I know that AMD is working on a chip for embedded devices with OpenGL and SVG, but it won't be ready for a while. Apr 29 18:14:17 Tsingi: That, and it needs to have open sourced drivers for it which I personally consider the main problem Apr 29 18:15:33 abraxa__: aye, a problem in general, not just for moko Apr 29 18:16:03 Tsingi: Unfortunately, yeah Apr 29 18:28:10 I was hoping, since AMD is vested in Linux, and they bought ATI, that they would open up their drivers. Apr 29 18:28:25 BTW: is projects.openmoko.org working nowadays? Apr 29 18:28:57 no Apr 29 18:32:19 Which brings up another question, how do I get an acct? I registered using GForce, no i see no way to register on the wiki, just a login which gives you no option for registering. Apr 29 18:32:36 Maybe I don't need one, it seems I could edit the wiki, if I had any reason. Apr 29 18:33:52 s/ I registered using GForce, no i see/ I registered using GForce, no joy. i see/ Apr 29 18:36:18 Tsingi: At the top right of the wiki you should see a "log in / create account" link Apr 29 18:37:49 I see [Search][login] only, login gives no create link. Apr 29 18:39:49 Ahh, in openembeddded.org there is no create, in openmoko, there is. Apr 29 18:41:04 Tsingi: Just visit http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup then Apr 29 18:42:06 abraxa__: I got it, thanks. Apr 29 18:50:11 counter Apr 29 18:50:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, a day 05:09:46 (15.215 +-3.5 days) (1048;187) Apr 29 18:50:35 looking at the methods in libnxml, it builds a doc in memory and provides a minimal (which is fine) API into it. Apr 29 18:51:44 Tsingi: DOM? Apr 29 18:51:59 It doesn't appear to support a DOM, no. Apr 29 18:52:37 So, no XML events &etc., but that's ok ,ost of the time. Apr 29 18:52:57 most Apr 29 18:53:02 that sounds more like sax Apr 29 18:54:28 I haven't used SAX, I had the impression that it didn't build a doc for you, just parse through the file. Apr 29 18:56:10 Tsingi: right, it gives you events, which I thought you were alluding to Apr 29 18:57:10 mutate events are nice to have. Apr 29 19:06:08 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] Apr 29 19:10:46 I wonder how big a dom wrapper would be. Apr 29 19:21:58 alp: I might be over sensitive. There were times mickeyl and me crawled taiwanese ftp servers to find our (forked) source-code Apr 29 19:23:42 zecke: yeah. if he were working on core stuff i would have been more concerned that it was out-of-tree Apr 29 19:47:18 Hey I can't find a place do download the OpenMoko framework Apr 29 19:47:33 The wiki lists each library Apr 29 19:47:40 but there is no download link Apr 29 19:47:48 Does anyone know where I can get it? Apr 29 19:47:49 King_Chronic: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Apr 29 19:51:52 King_Chronic: Do you want source or binaries? Apr 29 19:53:18 aloril i looked in the wiki and no luck Apr 29 19:53:52 abraxa__ I'm not sure I'm new to this and I thought it was interesting when I saw it Apr 29 19:53:57 what would you recommend? Apr 29 19:54:18 King_Chronic: That depends on what you want to do. What would you like to do then? Apr 29 19:55:28 I am mostly interested in making applications for it, but also I would be interesting in tinkering with the UI and changing fonts Apr 29 19:55:41 and adding on to the current UI a bit Apr 29 19:56:19 King_Chronic: Then you'll probably be the happiest with MokoMakefile - you'll find more about it on the wiki Apr 29 19:57:54 Okay one minute I'll check it out Apr 29 20:01:11 Anyone here who's experienced with bb recipes? I'm trying to add a recipe that has its source local but regardless of what I feed SRC_URI and S with, it always tries to fetch the sources from OpenMoko premirror/SVN since I'm including the openmoko distro config Apr 29 20:01:37 abraxa__: bb still has me mystified I'm afraid Apr 29 20:01:40 Since that obviously fails I'm rather stuck at this point Apr 29 20:02:37 LarstiQ: Yeah, and Koen just quit - he must've sensed my intentions ;p Apr 29 20:13:44 I'm having some trouble installing MokoMakeFile Apr 29 20:13:55 how so? Apr 29 20:14:35 King_Chronic: what trouble? Apr 29 20:14:38 when I type "make setup" it says "Make *** No rule to target 'setup'" Apr 29 20:15:13 Are you sure you're in the same directory you downloaded the makefile to? Apr 29 20:15:42 wait no it says "No Rule to make target 'setup'. Stop" Apr 29 20:15:45 yeah Apr 29 20:16:05 King_Chronic: is it called 'Makefile' ? Apr 29 20:16:23 yep Apr 29 20:16:38 King_Chronic: try 'make update-makefile' Apr 29 20:17:57 same error but it says "no rule to target 'update-makefile'" Apr 29 20:18:04 What does an "ls -l `which make`" show? Apr 29 20:18:24 but I type "make Makefile" and it skipped a line showing nothing but with no error Apr 29 20:18:27 let me check Apr 29 20:19:00 "ls is not a recognized internal or external command" Apr 29 20:19:16 wtf kind of system are you on? Apr 29 20:19:19 ls not recognized? Apr 29 20:19:26 Yeah, that was my thought as well, lol Apr 29 20:19:35 Vista Apr 29 20:19:39 ... Apr 29 20:19:47 Indeed. Apr 29 20:19:50 uhhhh.. yeah. no. Apr 29 20:19:54 why? Apr 29 20:19:58 Vista is not supported. Apr 29 20:20:06 Come back in several years maybe. Apr 29 20:20:19 King_Chronic: Sorry, Linux only :) Apr 29 20:20:32 I did this exact same thing with the PSP dev enviroment and it worked Apr 29 20:20:55 well, the PSP dev enviro must've supported Vista. MokoMakefile doesn't. Apr 29 20:21:09 plus i would get linux but i have some applications that are vista only Apr 29 20:21:14 King_Chronic: Did that use mingw by chance? Apr 29 20:22:01