**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 21 02:59:57 2007 May 21 03:01:48 Oh. Heh. Debian-style builddeps. May 21 03:01:53 * sparq smacks forehead May 21 03:03:33 Huzza! It lives! May 21 03:11:50 counter May 21 03:11:51 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 6 days 08:48:07 (6.367 +-5.0 days) (1224;210) May 21 03:18:44 sparq: how did you do it? May 21 03:27:21 DukeOfURL: edit moko/build/tmp/deploy/ipk/all/Packages May 21 03:28:54 from the stanza "Package: task-openmoko-pim", remove openmoko-rssreader from the Depends: line May 21 03:29:42 DukeOfURL: I do not reccomend this generally. I would consider the tree "broken" having performed this, but I just wanted to to boot the thing up. May 21 03:30:15 I'm sure it can be cleaned up, of course, but nevertheless. May 21 04:27:05 d'oh. sshd not installed by default. May 21 05:30:21 morning here also May 21 06:05:47 Hmm... http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/17/samsung_8gb_microsd/ May 21 06:06:19 Has anyone even seen a 4gb micro sd that's actually for sale? May 21 06:26:43 When I May 21 06:27:33 When my RAZR is in a known good coverage, the number of "bars" indicates signal strength. May 21 06:28:21 However, the "bars" sometimes gos to zero. Does this mean all voice channels are occupied, or does it indicate signal strength? May 21 06:28:32 s'gos'goes' May 21 06:29:05 It's no signal May 21 06:30:10 I see here "AT+CSQ" to get signal strength. Does anyone have any experience with this? May 21 06:34:00 morgen. May 21 06:34:04 counter May 21 06:34:04 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 6 days 05:25:53 (6.226 +-5.0 days) (1225;210) May 21 07:36:59 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: FCC Approval May 21 07:50:00 * CM wants: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/17/samsung_8gb_microsd/ May 21 08:03:01 counter? May 21 08:03:01 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 6 days 03:56:56 (6.165 +-5.0 days) (1226;210) May 21 08:03:55 counter? May 21 08:03:55 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 6 days 03:56:02 (6.164 +-5.0 days) (1227;210) May 21 08:07:14 good morning May 21 08:07:23 gug May 21 08:10:04 good morning May 21 08:13:07 counter May 21 08:13:08 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 6 days 03:46:50 (6.158 +-5.0 days) (1228;210) May 21 08:49:40 does anyone know where to find the scalable openmoko logo? thanks May 21 08:51:14 hmm, don't know... May 21 08:51:21 I'll take a look on the wiki May 21 08:58:17 mornin' May 21 08:58:58 morning May 21 08:58:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[User_talk:Idarwin]] [[Main_Menu]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware]] May 21 09:01:13 <_alcik_> PANDER write to Sean... he will give U something :-) May 21 09:01:38 _alcik_: thanks May 21 09:02:31 <_alcik_> PANDER I saw something a long time ago but hell, cant remember where... May 21 09:03:07 <_alcik_> and I think this was not on wiki May 21 09:03:36 Damn... The delay of the Neo1973 is making me feel like I should just go grab an iPaq. May 21 09:05:37 Pander: I just peeked at all the .svg files that MokoMakefile has splattered arcros my drive, and I don't see any of the OpenMoko logo May 21 09:06:42 Pander: Perhapse an Opie logo? Or a GPE logo? There are lots of those. ^_^ May 21 09:10:31 good morning May 21 09:13:01 greets May 21 09:13:16 I knew a Florian from Deggendorf in Germany. Good archer. May 21 09:14:00 sparq: any scalable format is actuially oke May 21 09:14:31 Pander: shall I check for PDFs an PS files? May 21 09:15:05 sparq: here is one inside a PDF: http://www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Neologics.pdf May 21 09:15:45 Heh. Anyone got Acrobat? May 21 09:17:45 kpdf here May 21 09:18:37 Pander: I presume that author of the presentation must have a scalable logo somewhere May 21 09:18:59 By the way, who owns the OpenMoko tradmarks and logos? Are they free to redistribute? May 21 09:19:11 sparq: http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:65q1psbiEOgJ:www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Neologics.pdf+http://www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Neologics.pdf&hl=hu&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera May 21 09:19:15 :) May 21 09:19:18 someone told me to look in the COPYING files but those were empty May 21 09:21:05 Yarr. May 21 09:22:24 I hope that they are CC or something. It would be a pain in the ass to have a firefox/iceweasel ordeal. May 21 09:24:26 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r94 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openembedded-e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded/ (libelf-mv_cv_target_elf.patch series): Proposed patch for libelf build problems with x86 target (backporting of patch already in OE .dev latest version). May 21 09:25:27 thanks to _alcik_ for pointing out the patch ... May 21 09:33:32 so the copyrights to all the source code, documentation, artwork etc. is .... May 21 09:33:47 * sparq waits for it May 21 09:34:25 if COPYING is empty, it's plain old copyright May 21 09:35:20 aha: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/License May 21 09:36:28 Pander: thought that doesn't really address branding May 21 09:36:44 Though, the wiki pages are soggy with OpenMoko branding, and they are tagged GNU FDL. May 21 09:37:47 * XorA suggest rather than guessing, making stuff up, ask on suitable openmoko list, then the email response from an official OM guy forms a contract anyway May 21 09:39:08 XorA: curse you and your logic! May 21 09:39:42 sparq: :-D May 21 09:40:20 * XorA suspects that openmoko will be similar to firefox and mozilla trademarks May 21 09:40:29 and will make debian cry May 21 09:41:33 Ohh, please not again. May 21 09:41:36 so hypothetically: if I would create some t-shirts with openmoko logo/artwork and sell them, that would be perfectly legal and upsetting people in the community? May 21 09:42:00 That would be sad. I've seen Debian a developer cry. It's just not right. May 21 09:42:15 icemoko :-) May 21 09:42:18 heh May 21 09:42:22 mokoweasel May 21 09:42:34 what is a "moko", anyway? Can it have an opposite? May 21 09:42:35 although amusingly iceweasel is the most unstable form of firefox I ever used May 21 09:42:37 if gentoo are the boyracers of the linux world, debian are the emo kids May 21 09:44:00 ewon: With a generous sprinkling of angry system administrators May 21 09:44:12 not as angry as the RHEL ones May 21 09:44:38 i've seen redhat packet manager cause angry pulsating veins to start throbbing on sysadmins' foreheads May 21 09:44:43 ewon: yeah but they are angry with reason, they see Fedora Core working :-) May 21 09:44:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moko May 21 09:45:06 no, they see people using CentOS with apt-functionality and other shinyness May 21 09:45:22 ewon: Oh, no -- Debian sysadmins like Debian. They just hate the world. May 21 09:47:28 Moko is the Ruler King of Lizards! May 21 09:48:28 so SuseMoko :-D May 21 09:49:35 I guess Debian could release it as OpenPere, to keep within the Cook Island mythology theme. May 21 09:50:09 Cook island wasnt the one where all the males got arrested a couple of years ago was it? May 21 09:51:42 XorA: no, that's Pitcairn May 21 09:52:04 sparq: phew! May 21 09:53:43 XorA: the Cook Islands were featured in Jared Diamond's book "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" as one of the cases where people were smart, and didn't wreck their environment. May 21 09:54:07 * sparq pimps UCLA May 21 09:54:08 sparq: you sound far too intelligent to be talking to a lowlife like me :-) May 21 09:54:20 pfft. May 21 09:54:49 This is IRC. We are all lowlifes. May 21 09:56:51 That is why it is fun. May 21 09:57:10 * CM eats another dodo ;) May 21 09:57:17 * amarsh04 is going to cry if the Debian developer who marked a jack-audio-connection-kit bug as "fixed" when amarsh04 provided a counter-example to prove that it wasn't fixed doesn't do something about the bug May 21 09:58:04 amarsh04: you should know that bugs.debian.org is about the same as /dev/null with a lot of package maintainers May 21 09:58:16 I love Ulrich May 21 09:58:20 he broke backtrace() May 21 09:58:26 and he refuses to fix it May 21 09:58:36 amarsh04: threaten to file more bugs against his/her packages. I'm sure you can find an embarassing policy violation or two. May 21 09:58:50 yes, but I have had good success XorA, ususally using reportbug and replying promptly to any further queries from the developer May 21 09:59:00 hehehe sqarq May 21 09:59:22 amarsh04: you must be a lucky one that packages you care about have an active developer :-) May 21 10:00:25 amarsh04: Remember, Debian is a bureaucracy. The way you punish people in a bureaucracy is to generate paperwork for them. May 21 10:01:35 *G* May 21 10:01:53 amarsh04: *especially* if the paperwork in question forces them into a public test of loyalty. May 21 10:02:06 http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=956 <-- Ulrich Drepper at his finest May 21 10:02:06 hmmm, interesting new product, http://www.amazegps.com/index.php?page=register May 21 10:03:01 sparq - What was this "Pitcairn" story? May 21 10:03:37 Elrond: A culture involving child abuse May 21 10:04:55 Elrond: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_sexual_assault_trial_of_2004 May 21 10:05:35 I thought that the trial took more than a year May 21 10:06:24 Well, that WP page says: "2007 Brian Michael John Young is found guilty of rape and indecent assault, and sentenced to six-and-a-half years in prison." May 21 10:07:24 Elrond: Remember the HMS Bounty (as in the mutiny thereon)? Pitcairn is where the mutineers settled with some women they found (abducted? I can't remember) elsewhere. May 21 10:10:18 Elrond: The island is part of the the Brittish Commonwealth, though it isn't really a viable long term settlement (it was settled before by Polyniesians, but it was far too inhospitibal, so they either left or died) May 21 10:16:54 May 21 10:18:06 * amarsh04 just created a few more emails for Debian developers' inboxes (-: May 21 10:18:16 pity about the Cutty Sark )-: May 21 10:19:57 yeah, just found out myself May 21 10:20:24 from the bbc article it seems that most of the stuff was offsite, thankfully May 21 10:21:50 I mean, the Endeavour and Bounty replicas are nice, but they're still replicas May 21 10:23:12 wonders how much FLOSS gets decent long-term archiving May 21 10:25:03 counter May 21 10:25:03 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 6 days 01:34:54 (6.066 +-5.0 days) (1229;210) May 21 10:27:33 hi May 21 10:48:48 sparq, CM - Thanks for tha answers (I was distracted by RL) May 21 11:15:22 openmoko: 03mickey * r2049 10/trunk/oe/packages/settings-daemon/settings-daemon_svn.bb: oe/settings-daemon: catch up with new o-hand default theme May 21 11:20:14 Hi mickeyl! :) May 21 11:27:07 hi. will be back in 2h. need to visit a T* store to sort out my network problems :/ May 21 12:09:10 counter May 21 12:09:10 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 23:50:47 (5.994 +-5.0 days) (1230;210) May 21 12:24:29 What about Cutty Sark? May 21 12:24:44 arson attack May 21 12:24:57 In Greenwich, correct? May 21 12:25:19 bad? May 21 12:25:56 wooden ship in dry dock + fire May 21 12:26:07 boom May 21 12:26:20 that's a shame May 21 12:26:30 put extra guards on Victory May 21 13:28:04 + May 21 13:30:03 hello May 21 14:21:25 counter May 21 14:21:26 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 21:38:31 (5.902 +-5.0 days) (1231;210) May 21 14:59:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[Wish_List]] May 21 15:12:02 counter May 21 15:12:02 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 20:47:55 (5.867 +-5.0 days) (1232;210) May 21 16:02:53 gtg cu May 21 16:19:51 * herod_ esce May 21 18:43:13 hrmmm.... 'will be FCC certified' May 21 18:45:46 MacNorth: yes that is terrifiing May 21 18:47:01 does the operator know what kind of phone you use? May 21 18:48:41 I like the looks of the openmoko ui May 21 18:49:06 keesj: it know IMEI May 21 18:50:54 counter May 21 18:50:54 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 17:09:03 (5.715 +-5.0 days) (1233;210) May 21 18:51:25 hi May 21 18:52:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity#IMEI_and_the_law at least you apparently don't need to be regulated for an imei May 21 18:52:14 maybe somebody could clear things up a bit for me with this whole gnome mobile stuff.. May 21 18:52:43 is gnome mobile some kind of desktop which you can run on top of openmoko or is it a replacement? May 21 18:53:00 well, it doesn't exist yet May 21 18:53:07 but it would be a replacement, when it exists, I think May 21 18:53:27 hm May 21 18:53:58 counter May 21 18:53:59 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 17:05:58 (5.712 +-5.0 days) (1234;210) May 21 18:54:21 sad to hear, i hoped these projects would both help each other to provide one great free basis for phones and such May 21 18:54:24 hi, is the perhaps end of may handset mentioned in the topic a final hardware rev? May 21 18:56:03 timtimred - It is assumed to be final. Software of course is a completely different story May 21 18:56:17 im not too bothered about the software :) May 21 18:56:27 final of the 'old' hardware, though, as i understand it May 21 18:56:40 the slower processor, no wiki 'final' revision May 21 18:56:46 s/wiki/wifi/ May 21 18:56:48 MacNorth meant: the slower processor, no wifi 'final' revision May 21 18:57:17 Right. May 21 18:57:29 cool, um, i think... thanks :) May 21 18:57:31 Still a nice thing. Just a little slow. May 21 18:58:34 Hi bkuhn May 21 18:58:46 Hello Elrond. :) May 21 18:59:35 Elrond: I usually just idle here to see what's going on. But, SFLC is anxiously awaiting the developer purchase release of the phone; we're planning on making it the standard device for the organization. May 21 18:59:55 i think there doesn't have to be a final version, there's no reason for the board to stop evolving at any point (especially when bugs are discovered along the way) May 21 19:00:24 heh, what do you mean? the hardware is perfect :-P May 21 19:00:28 the software, otoh... May 21 19:00:44 i'm sure there will be tons of things changed between P1.5 and P2 May 21 19:01:04 assumming both P1.5 and P2 come some day May 21 19:01:20 and that the FCC blesses them for the yanks :) May 21 19:01:46 can you sum up the state of the software in two words? May 21 19:01:47 yeah, this is optimistic :p May 21 19:02:29 mostly working? mostly broken? :) May 21 19:02:50 mostly complicated May 21 19:03:27 thats not really helpful :) May 21 19:03:46 two words is too few :) May 21 19:03:59 nahh it isnt... :) May 21 19:09:55 bkuhn - SFLC? May 21 19:10:11 Elrond: Software Freedom Law Center, www.softwarefreedom.org May 21 19:10:58 Ahh :-) May 21 19:23:51 arghh, all these delays May 21 20:47:26 counter May 21 20:47:27 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 15:12:30 (5.634 +-5.0 days) (1235;211) May 21 20:54:36 is the lat/lon of Cingulat and T-Mobile base stations available? May 21 20:55:17 * summatusmentis wants gsm :'-( May 21 21:00:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] May 21 21:03:39 rwhitby - You there? May 21 21:08:52 Elrond: yup May 21 21:10:36 hmmm May 21 21:10:36 rwhitby - I'm currently using MokoMakfile and I wonder, why it checks out the whole openmoko svn and not only trunk? May 21 21:11:06 Elrond: cause that's what the official build instructions said. May 21 21:11:19 (it is true that it could only check out trunk) May 21 21:11:40 but it is nice to see what's in werner's development branch ;-) May 21 21:11:57 hehe. ;) May 21 21:14:01 rwhitby - The other thing: Makefile-target "setup-openmoko-developer" and "setup-openmoko" look very similiar. Is that on purpose / why not factor the common part out in its own rule? May 21 21:15:03 the developer target is a once-off only for people with write access to the openmoko svn repo. May 21 21:15:15 (it could probably do with a better name) May 21 21:15:54 rwhitby - Ahh. :-) May 21 21:16:38 rwhitby - Final thing: One usually uses "( cd FOO && somecommand )" not with ";" in the middle. ;-) May 21 21:17:37 true May 21 21:18:03 when the preceeding command was [ -e FOO ] || mkdir FOO it doesn't matter too much ;-) May 21 21:18:28 (since that makefile command will fail if the dir couldn't be created) May 21 21:18:48 ( cd bitbake ; svn revert -R . ) <-- no preceding [ .. ] && ;o) May 21 21:19:28 Hi pavelm! :-)) May 21 21:19:30 Hello, everyone. May 21 21:19:43 hi pavelm May 21 21:19:47 I was browsing bugzilla... and we are searching for ringtones. May 21 21:19:52 ..is there midi support planned? May 21 21:19:55 Hi, Elrond! May 21 21:19:59 Elrond: in both cases, there is either an existence test for bitbake (or a subdirectory) or a dependency on stamps/bitbake (which does the same thing) May 21 21:20:27 * pavelm finally got gps working with hh binary driver (v4 only :-() May 21 21:21:26 rwhitby - Heh :-) It was just a "would look nicer to old school make guys like me" thing. :-)) May 21 21:21:43 pavelm - Can you do me a favour with your v3? May 21 21:22:04 Elrond: but you did find a bug - make setup-patches on it's own (not part of make setup) is missing dependencies on stamps/bitbake and stamps/openembedded May 21 21:22:05 elrond: Depends on what kind of favour :) May 21 21:22:48 Elrond: I only do the && thing if there is the slightest chance that the former clause can fail. May 21 21:23:58 rwhitby - The slightest chance is people like me, who put stamps without the real thing existing. ;o) May 21 21:24:20 elrond: But tell me what the favour is... May 21 21:24:30 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r95 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added missing dependencies for setup-patches on setup-bitbake and setup-openembedded. Thanks Elrond for spotting them. May 21 21:25:42 pavelm - Can you please test u-boot-gta01bv3-r8_70124c2602ae2d4c5d3dba05b482d91548242de8_0_2040.bin from buildhost on it and tell me, if it works and its md5sum May 21 21:27:17 elrond: If I brick the v3, I'll have very hard time bringing it back up :-( May 21 21:27:33 elrond: I can tell you known good version of uboot (+md5sum) if that helps? May 21 21:27:45 pavelm - That would also help. :-) May 21 21:27:51 pavelm - You don't have a debug board? May 21 21:28:58 elrond: Have debug board but do not know how to use it. May 21 21:29:14 elrond: I'm using u-boot-gta01bv3-r5_9877d7dcd1eebe61aa5d8b8ffe9c048ea426e6f6_0_1910.bin May 21 21:29:28 elrond: md5: d8965b38d11ac679fdc1fe227e4e31a8 May 21 21:30:14 pavelm - Ahh. :-)) May 21 21:30:25 pavelm - The debug board usage is described on the wiki. ;-) May 21 21:30:53 elrond: Yes... just... I'd prefer not to go through that. May 21 21:33:38 pavelm - Okay. :-) May 21 21:34:20 elrond: So you have v3 but not v4 hardware near you? May 21 21:35:21 Did anyone get python to work on openmoko? May 21 21:35:30 pavelm - Exactly. :-) May 21 21:35:47 pavelm - python is on my list, when I have the buildenv working. ;) May 21 21:36:18 elrond: Ouch, it seems buildenv is "little tricky" to get to work :( May 21 21:37:21 pavelm - MokoMakefile seems to do a good job. Except you need 100 cpu-minutes on a 2.9GHz machine just for the openembedded "download". ;o) May 21 21:38:57 I added bugs into the bugsystem... about too small fonts, and need to lock touchscreen after inactivity. I hope they are not duplicates. May 21 21:39:13 elrond: Hmm, I wonder how long "build" takes... May 21 21:39:59 pavelm - I'm trying to build gtk+ just now... it reads bitbake files on my 300MHz desktop... slowly. ;o) May 21 21:41:45 elrond: I guess you should get slightly faster cpu... May 21 21:42:00 elrond: 300MHz desktop is still going to be slightly faster than native compiling May 21 21:42:10 elrond: ...but I guess the keyword is "slightly". May 21 21:43:54 No, it will be quite faster. My box has lots more RAM :) May 21 21:43:59 ... and more cache. ;) May 21 21:50:41 does ram make a massive difference? May 21 21:51:41 cache does. May 21 21:52:25 cjb/web: both cache and ram make huge difference May 21 21:52:33 native compiling on neo would be very bad idea. May 21 21:52:41 question: May 21 21:52:54 on both bv3 and bv4 hardware, I see significant screen flicker. May 21 21:53:20 main menu shows it nicely, and when white rectangle is present, it makes it more visible. May 21 21:53:27 do you see it, too? May 21 21:55:19 running find / over ssh makes it _very_ visible. May 21 21:55:51 ...should I just bugzilla it? May 21 21:55:53 pavelm_afc - Let me try. May 21 21:56:21 128MB is not that bad for compiling C May 21 21:56:56 Right. May 21 21:56:56 I suspect something is making the vblank interrupt la May 21 21:56:58 lag May 21 21:57:06 irq conflict? May 21 21:57:18 ewon: Do you see the flicker? May 21 21:57:19 the main menu shows it nicely? May 21 21:57:34 pavelm_afc: I would if I had the hardware, I susepct May 21 21:57:46 i get the white bit where you can select the keyboard May 21 21:59:07 is that something to do with ram? May 21 21:59:21 webjames: Yes, main menu is good at it, and ssh with find / makes it more visible May 21 21:59:30 pavelm_afc - No flicker here. I get flicker in u-boot, when it shows the menu and there is this coloured part on the bottom. When I look in the "right" angle on it, it flickers. May 21 22:00:29 elrond: can you try to ssh in, type find / May 21 22:01:46 pavelm_afc - I did. May 21 22:02:32 pavelm_afc - Any idea how I can get the CPU frequency in the running linux? /proc/cpuinfo only has bogomips. May 21 22:03:04 elrond: Ok, but I seen it on both v3 and v4... I guess I'm just too sensitive? But my brother seen it too (without me telling him). May 21 22:03:35 elrond: it is in /sys/ somewhere. May 21 22:03:54 pavelm_afc - I'm quite senstive to flicker (I have no idea why. I have _very_ bad eyes). But nothing. My current suspection is: The cpu runs only in 100MHz mode. May 21 22:05:06 it is in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq on pc, but moko has no cpufreq dir :-( May 21 22:05:27 you can enable it May 21 22:05:39 pavelm_afc - Right. And /proc/cpuinfo also nothing. May 21 22:05:58 balrog-kun - Huh? May 21 22:06:15 Elrond: in menuconfig May 21 22:06:36 you can also ask u-boot about the current clocking May 21 22:07:45 balrog-kun - u-boot told me 100MHz ;) May 21 22:09:03 Elrond: you can also tell u-boot to ramp it up :P May 21 22:09:38 Yeah, I might do that. ;-) May 21 22:09:53 Or update my u-boot and see, if the frequency default has changed. ;) May 21 22:32:17 hmm, I thought kernel _needs_ to do frequency changes if want reasonable power consumption... May 21 22:37:30 pavelm - Yes. But the frequency scaling is not yet done. It's an open bug. May 21 22:39:24 elrond: well, maybe it is not _that_ important on arm platform. May 21 22:40:46 the commercial linux PDAs and phones i know don't do cpufreq by default May 21 22:40:55 neither does my PDA May 21 22:42:35 balrog: It has something to do with race-to-idle vs. idle-as-little-as-possible. May 21 22:42:46 balrog: PIIs and similar want the latter. May 21 22:43:18 balrog: even newer intel designs need the former, so it is possible that it is right thing to do on samsung, too. May 21 22:43:31 pavelm: i don't know, but all the SoCs support idling and Linux uses it May 21 22:44:18 on the pxa Linux does change the clock frequency just before suspending but that's hardcoded and i'm not sure why it does it, it's not cpufreq May 21 22:44:50 balrog: PIIs support idling, too, but it is so inefficient that you want to lower cpu speed and make computations take longer. May 21 22:45:05 also i'm not sure if cpufreq was supported in 2.4 May 21 22:45:09 balrog: I guess that lowering cpufreqency is neccessary step for suspend on pxa. May 21 22:45:24 the Zaurus PDAs for example come with 2.4 by default May 21 22:45:38 balrog: I'm pretty sure cpufreq was in 2.4. May 21 22:45:45 pavelm: from the specs it doesn't seem so but maybe some hardware quirk May 21 22:46:32 balrog: I did not read the specs, so I can't comment on that. May 21 22:46:44 i thought non-constant HZ was introduced recently May 21 22:47:03 balrog: non-constant HZ is 2.6.21 stuff, but cpufreq is _way_ older than that. May 21 22:47:30 pavelm: i see May 21 22:51:31 Ahh. May 21 23:00:32 ..ahha, phase0 hw + recent kernels = non-working sound :-( May 21 23:01:22 :-(( May 21 23:01:48 pavelm: what are you able to run to test the audio? May 21 23:01:58 I can't get the dialer to work, no media player, etc May 21 23:01:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] May 21 23:02:15 ANTS from phase1 :-) May 21 23:02:25 pavelm - You need the right modules. May 21 23:02:27 it calls alsamixer, and it becomes rather obvious that there are no soundcards there. May 21 23:02:42 pavelm - Which kernel do you have? May 21 23:02:59 uImage-2.6-moko10-r0_0_2006_0-fic-gta01.bin May 21 23:03:10 2.6.21.1-moko10 May 21 23:03:28 pavelm - Ahh. You need to get the modules*2006*.tgz and get the modules you'd like to have. May 21 23:03:42 pavelm - Can you see, if the backlight works with that kernel? May 21 23:04:55 root@fic-gta01:/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl$ cat actual_brightness May 21 23:05:21 so I need to flash openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070519034607.rootfs.jffs2 and then add modules? May 21 23:05:40 Hello, I'm trying Message Ease on my Palm T3. May 21 23:05:44 cat actual_brightness May 21 23:05:45 0 May 21 23:06:20 pavelm - use any rootfs you like. Just add the modules. ;-) May 21 23:06:30 ...it seems broken here. May 21 23:06:40 What is broken? The backlight? May 21 23:06:58 "echo 1000 > brightness" <-- to change backlight. May 21 23:07:25 cool May 21 23:07:53 palmino - Hmm? May 21 23:07:53 elrond thanks -- mdules are indeed a problem May 21 23:08:10 pavelm - Does the backlight setting work? May 21 23:08:10 elrond: actual_brightness shows 0, but brightness is definitely not zero. May 21 23:08:41 hey, someone with a Neo. does it have a serial number? is the IMEI printed on the outside of the phone? May 21 23:08:43 Elrond: is there a list of which of the modules are worth copying over? May 21 23:08:44 elrond: I can echo values into brightness but see no effect. May 21 23:09:37 DukeOfURL - For P0: No. May 21 23:09:51 bmidgley - I can paste my list. ;o) May 21 23:10:03 pavelm - *arg* So still bugged. May 21 23:10:26 duke: Not sure. It has "date code", "S/N", Part No:, and code below barcode. May 21 23:10:56 duke: why? May 21 23:10:57 do you know what the barcode is? May 21 23:11:16 neo% echo *module* | sed -e 's/kernel-module-//g' -e 's/_2.6.21.[^ ]*ipk//g' May 21 23:11:16 bluetooth hci-usb ohci-hcd snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 snd-soc-s3c24xx-i2s snd-soc-s3c24xx snd-soc-wm8753 May 21 23:11:36 I'll have to provision/manage a large number of phones for employees. May 21 23:11:36 duke: But of course it has IMEI. You need imei to talk to gsm network. May 21 23:11:44 duke: Why do you ask? May 21 23:11:56 Right. Is IMEI printed with the S/N? May 21 23:12:11 Elrond: please do pastebin the list May 21 23:13:10 duke: I do not know, but I guess that the number below barcode is imei. May 21 23:13:12 bmidgley - Just pastebin from my stuff here yourself? May 21 23:13:20 bmidgley - It's my minimal list. May 21 23:17:48 Elrond: pastebin.com would be handy for that May 21 23:19:38 elrond: Is it possible that my backlight problems are because of missing modules? May 21 23:23:31 where does one buy a hardware hit? May 21 23:23:32 hamada: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 21 23:23:34 pavelm - I considered that possiblility, but I looked twice through modules*.tgz and didn't find anything, that looked promissing. You're welcome to recheck. May 21 23:23:35 where does one buy a hardware kit? May 21 23:23:56 hamada - You mean a phone? May 21 23:24:33 yes May 21 23:24:39 pavelm: if you have a directory /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl then the driver is loaded May 21 23:24:47 and then it's not a modules issue May 21 23:25:30 balrog: Right... I even have the files so no, I'm not having module issue. May 21 23:25:38 hamada - Do "/msg aloril counter?" May 21 23:25:41 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2051 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/ (ChangeLog src/callbacks.c src/main.c): May 21 23:25:41 openmoko: * src/callbacks.c (moko_icon_view_selection_changed_cb): May 21 23:25:41 openmoko: * src/main.c (handle_sigusr1): May 21 23:25:41 openmoko: Use the new moko_window_set_status_message functions to convey May 21 23:25:41 openmoko: information to the footer. I still kept all the dbus deps since May 21 23:25:45 openmoko: I'm not sure whether we still need it in the mainmenu. May 21 23:26:09 pavelm - Can you check for a bug and/or file one? May 21 23:26:42 elrond: I'm too sleepy for that. May 21 23:27:54 pavelm - Okay. I'll do it tomorrow. :-) May 21 23:28:37 bmidgley - My firefox is already closed. And like pavelm I'm too sleepy to use a pastebin now. Not for 2 lines. May 21 23:28:41 with two batteries, is there an appliance to charge the second battery while the first is in the phone? May 21 23:28:45 thanks Elrond May 21 23:30:51 DukeOfURL - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery May 21 23:32:16 Good night people. :-) May 21 23:32:38 good night! May 21 23:33:14 gn8 May 21 23:38:28 night all May 21 23:39:52 pavelm - Your neo's backlight is on in reality, but the driver says "0" for brightness? May 21 23:40:55 Elrond: I copied all the modules... and still no sound :-* May 21 23:40:59 :-( May 21 23:41:35 pavelm - modprobe snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 May 21 23:41:46 elrond: root@fic-gta01:~/DM2$ cat /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/actual_brightness May 21 23:41:48 0 May 21 23:41:53 ...and backlight is on. May 21 23:42:02 Okay, so it's definitely buggy. May 21 23:42:36 wow, that did the trick. Sound now works in phase0 neo, good. May 21 23:42:36 With a working one, I just noticed, that there must be a different "on/off"-switch. Because the screensaver switched it off and doing "echo 1000>brightness" did not switch it on. May 21 23:44:35 This discharging thing in the P0 is annoying. I guess I really need to put the battery out, when not using it. :-( May 21 23:45:01 openmoko: 03andrew * r2052 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (16 files in 2 dirs): May 21 23:45:01 openmoko: "savevm"/"loadvm" support for ARM cores, the S3C peripherals and random other hardware. May 21 23:45:01 openmoko: Allow snapshot storing in mtdblock images and rip out some of the hardcoded HDD snapshot checks. May 21 23:45:22 elrond: Yes, battery needs to be 10 cm from the neo, so that neo can't drain it :-) May 21 23:48:04 hmm... and now my phase0 neo oopses during boot. I should really get some sleep. May 21 23:48:06 pavelm - Well, sometimes it surprised me possitively. May 21 23:48:47 elrond: like "I left it turned off for a day, and batery was more than 10% full! Amazing hw!" ? ;-) May 21 23:49:29 pavelm - After being at a friend with it, I didn't switch it off correctly. Just the screen was dark. It happily survived all the travel home, etc. (some many hours). And I still found files in tmpfs we put there. ;-) (abusing the neo as a usb-stick ;o) ) May 21 23:50:15 elrond: It is a cellphone. Cellphones should do that. May 21 23:50:25 pavelm - Like "I left it turned of for half a day and it still had more than 60% the battery.". May 21 23:50:30 elrond: Like "survive in standby for a week". May 21 23:50:39 Yep, they should. May 21 23:50:46 elrond: That's good for phase0 openmoko. Mine died after 4 hours. May 21 23:50:55 I guess, even the P1 will not survive the week. :-( May 21 23:50:59 Good night! May 21 23:51:12 Good night (I really should go to bed too) May 21 23:51:31 (no, p1 will likely not survive a week, but it should last 3 days, or it is unusable on mass market). May 21 23:51:43 (for me, 24 hours standby is okay, but I'm strange). May 21 23:53:29 Yeah, mass market really need 3 days or more. May 21 23:53:45 My currennt phone has between 7-14 days. May 21 23:54:01 elrond: well, I basically empty any battery within 8 hours... May 21 23:54:12 *G* :-) May 21 23:54:17 elrond: unlimited data plan on gprs :-) May 21 23:54:31 Elrond: what phone is your current phone? May 21 23:54:40 don-o - Siemens ME45. May 21 23:54:41 pavelm: what's the data rate? May 21 23:55:06 don-o - It's gsm only, no "smart" thing. May 21 23:55:09 duke: 25kilobytes per second at home, 5 kilobytes per second outside. May 21 23:55:25 i lost my phone yesterday (ericsson t-29) that i had for years. i think its a sign to buy a neo but alas they arent available yet May 21 23:55:51 don-o - You wouldn't want it NOW to replace a real phone. May 21 23:56:15 don-o - Like the backlight control is currently b0rked. (I'll file the bug tomorrow) May 21 23:56:24 Elrond: all it has to do is make calls. it can do that much, right? May 21 23:56:36 Reportedly. May 21 23:56:57 I never had a sim in "mine" ;) May 21 23:56:59 don-o: Well... not reliably. May 21 23:57:15 what about receive calls? May 21 23:57:19 pavelm - I'm not surprised. :) May 21 23:57:38 i figure it'll be horribly buggy for a while, but i think i can live with that. May 21 23:57:53 don-o: Yep, receiving calls worked once. May 21 23:58:10 don-o: Get old t68i -- these were nice beasts. Should last half a year before neo is usable. May 21 23:58:20 don-o - Well, if you don't need it for "professional work" ;) May 21 23:58:50 The me45 is also still a nice rugged phone. May 21 23:58:53 bye bye. May 21 23:59:02 (I like it's rugged feeling!) May 21 23:59:07 pavelm - Bye. :-) May 21 23:59:26 id like to get an iPhone until the neo is ready :) May 22 00:00:26 With the 2 year cingular gagging-contract? May 22 00:00:42 (or wasn't it like that? I don't know.) May 22 00:00:59 Elrond: yeah thats the worst part of the thing May 22 00:01:07 Elrond: but i gotta see what the actual terms are. May 22 00:01:34 I'm very pissed by all this vendor-lock-in everywhere. May 22 00:01:43 Elrond: me too. i stay pre-paid. May 22 00:02:01 Yeah, I have a pre-paid too. :) May 22 00:04:20 don-o - The other thing with the neo: It's a strange feeling to use a touchscreen for entering numbers. May 22 00:04:41 With the current GUI I feel like I always need a stylus. May 22 00:04:46 Elrond: im looking forward to that part. May 22 00:05:09 Elrond: id like to see some custom tiles for the number pads May 22 00:05:30 Elrond: like klingon-script numbers or symbols that dont have any relation to the number May 22 00:05:49 with hot chicks pictures on them May 22 00:05:57 *G* May 22 00:06:22 they get better-looking as the numbers get higher May 22 00:06:57 i need to get the emulator going again. May 22 00:07:10 ive been having strange problems with installing ubuntu on parallels May 22 00:09:17 someone had an idea to make a dialer with the numbers on a circle that you turn with your finger like the old phones had May 22 00:09:22 (and i had the same idea) May 22 00:09:57 the ones that dialed numbers with impulses instead of tones May 22 00:10:14 with a sound accompanying the spinning of the circle it may be nice May 22 00:12:12 ah it's called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_dial May 22 00:14:34 hehe. ;-) May 22 00:14:57 This Fingerwheel is also ... you-need-to-get-used-to-it. ;-) May 22 00:15:52 Anyway. May 22 00:15:58 Good night now. May 22 01:00:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] May 22 01:11:34 can the touchscreen register multiple finger touches at once? May 22 01:12:25 AFAIK, it does not May 22 01:13:25 some people are working in a fake multitouch, but don't know about the status (if any) May 22 01:17:33 counter May 22 01:17:34 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: 5 days 10:42:23 (5.446 +-5.0 days) (1236;211) May 22 01:22:10 Sufflope_: it's always "tomorrow", ever today -- as in "Alice in Wonderland" (or was that in "Through the Looking Glass"?) May 22 01:24:24 mwester: i think thats Little Orphan Annie (Tommorrow, you're always a day away) May 22 01:30:26 it counts for next delay announcement ;-) May 22 01:30:38 (hopefully not this time) May 22 02:17:50 manufacturing is suprizingly secretive May 22 02:18:12 my guess is there is another client for the neo1973 that dwarfs the openmoko project May 22 02:18:23 well.. it might not happened yet actually May 22 02:18:35 (manufacturing) May 22 02:48:17 i was just wondering, i knew that the phone would not have wifi due to the lack of chipset but now that htye have discovered the atheros chipset, will the phone now include wifi for its public release in september? May 22 02:48:18 P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) May 22 02:49:12 thedaniel: P2 probably has same hardware as P1+ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 22 02:59:56 2007