**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 23 02:59:57 2007
May 23 03:02:07 <pjz> woo, someone's been working on the contacts app
May 23 03:02:36 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]]
May 23 04:12:00 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 60%)
May 23 04:12:00 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 60%) 
May 23 04:18:27 <bhima> counter
May 23 04:18:27 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 15:50:45 (4.660 +-4.7 days) (1251;212)
May 23 05:48:55 <Rakshasa> morgen
May 23 05:49:15 <CM> huomenta
May 23 06:54:22 * sparq wants to hack on OpenMoko, but has too much homework
May 23 06:54:43 <sparq> Sad. Very sad.
May 23 07:06:36 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_Events]]
May 23 07:09:02 <TRIsoft> morning
May 23 07:10:42 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 23 07:16:47 <sannes> counter
May 23 07:16:47 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 14:21:35 (4.598 +-4.6 days) (1252;212)
May 23 07:51:36 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: FCC Approval
May 23 07:57:41 * CM waits for the list archives to catch up with the mail
May 23 08:03:04 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%)
May 23 08:03:04 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) 
May 23 08:05:36 <aloril> (script) planet: Jon Phillips: OpenMoko, OpenEmbedded, GMAE and Ubuntu Mobile Initiative http://rejon.org/2007/05/09/openmoko-openembedded-gmae-and-ubuntu-mobile-initiative/
May 23 08:06:20 <CM> aloril: Your script rocks :)
May 23 08:07:41 <Pander> Ubuntu version of OpenMoko???
May 23 08:09:11 <ynezz> competition is always good...
May 23 08:43:08 <CM> ynezz: They were making fun of some Novell guy on the latest LUGRadio for using the word "coopetition" ;)
May 23 08:43:43 <ynezz> :)
May 23 09:05:01 * _alcik_ ziew
May 23 09:06:36 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]] [[MokoMakefile/de]] [[Main_Page/de]]
May 23 09:14:02 <antenagora> counter
May 23 09:14:03 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 13:22:57 (4.558 +-4.6 days) (1253;212)
May 23 09:22:14 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2063 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/asoc.patch: Fix s3c24xx spinlock lockup bug from http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2007-May/001105.html (Zoltan Devai)
May 23 10:33:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r2064 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/ (106 files in 2 dirs): icons: remove svg icons from build, and add converted pngs to 36x36
May 23 10:36:14 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2065 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410_touchscreen.patch: 
May 23 10:36:14 <CIA-24> openmoko: Add proper S3C2440 support to s3c2410_ts driver by
May 23 10:36:14 <CIA-24> openmoko: * introducing a new s3c2440-ts platform_device
May 23 10:36:14 <CIA-24> openmoko: * initializing GPIO functions only on 2410, not on 2440.
May 23 11:06:36 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Finger_based_Ebook_Reader]] [[Introduction]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
May 23 11:08:07 <aloril> so its S3C2440 in P1+ ?
May 23 11:12:32 <SpeedEvil> \
May 23 11:12:35 <SpeedEvil> \\
May 23 11:12:39 <SpeedEvil> sigh
May 23 11:13:23 <XorA> SpeedEvil: cheer up it could be worse
May 23 11:15:03 <SpeedEvil> Yeah, I could be totally unable to type.
May 23 11:15:54 <XorA> it could also be monday
May 23 11:16:19 * SpeedEvil doesn't currently have a job :/
May 23 11:16:29 <SpeedEvil> So monday has no terrors.
May 23 11:18:16 <ewon> SpeedEvil: harsh
May 23 11:26:18 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: you're welcome to mine
May 23 11:26:26 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: I'm quitting mid-august
May 23 11:29:29 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r2066 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): 
May 23 11:29:29 <CIA-24> openmoko: Patch by Neil J Patel <njp@o-hand.com>
May 23 11:29:29 <CIA-24> openmoko: openmoko-dialer: Re-write of autocomplete functionality
May 23 11:36:26 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2067 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410_touchscreen.patch: use correct device name
May 23 11:46:01 <Bish> hay guyz, will i be able to use the "speaker" of the neo as stereo ( playin music very loud :P ? ) ?
May 23 12:03:24 <SpeedEvil> Bish: It's got 2*20mm speakers or so. What do you think.
May 23 12:04:46 <mattzerah> hehe, one huge party !
May 23 12:05:10 <roh> Bish hehe.. yeah
May 23 12:05:21 <SpeedEvil> You can plug amplified speakers into it.
May 23 12:05:31 <SpeedEvil> (with the correct adaptor)
May 23 12:06:07 <XorA> the phone is quiet loud for its size
May 23 12:06:16 <mattzerah> is it going to have standard connectors? I assume it will take a 2.5 or 3.5 mm plug for headphones ?
May 23 12:06:20 <XorA> s/quiet/quite/
May 23 12:06:21 <apt> XorA meant: the phone is quite loud for its size
May 23 12:06:23 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - for speech, probably OK - it won't be hifi.
May 23 12:07:40 <mattzerah> sorry, another quick question which everyones probably sick of..... is there actually wifi in the phone for this run ?
May 23 12:07:40 <CM> mattzerah: 2.5mm, check the wiki :)
May 23 12:07:52 <mattzerah> i've been looking at the wiki :)
May 23 12:07:56 <mattzerah> havn't come across it yet, sorry :
May 23 12:07:57 <mattzerah> :/
May 23 12:08:05 * CM hoped alorils trigger would kick in
May 23 12:08:08 <CM> wifi?
May 23 12:08:09 <aloril> P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F  (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers)
May 23 12:08:14 <XorA> 2.5mm in an annoying wiring
May 23 12:08:19 <mattzerah> likely, so not sure yet ?
May 23 12:08:39 <CM> mattzerah: Yes, nothing confirmed yet
May 23 12:08:48 <mattzerah> oh, sorry, misread - so "this" run will be p1 wouldn't it ?
May 23 12:09:01 <mattzerah> i only found this project 2 days ago - i'm pumped !
May 23 12:09:08 <CM> :)
May 23 12:09:12 <XorA> counter
May 23 12:09:12 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 11:55:22 (4.497 +-4.5 days) (1254;212)
May 23 12:09:20 <mattzerah> i want to start developing some tools - but a bit busy at the moment  -  work :/
May 23 12:09:22 <SpeedEvil> No, no wifi on phase 1
May 23 12:09:46 <mattzerah> thats cool - cant have EVERYTHING in the first run
May 23 12:09:56 <mattzerah> need to give the oposition a chance ;)
May 23 12:10:57 <mattzerah> thanx SpeedEvil
May 23 12:11:02 <mattzerah> and CM
May 23 12:11:04 <mattzerah> :)
May 23 12:11:10 <mattzerah> i'll be back!
May 23 12:24:01 <Bish> roh: hehe yeah what:P it wont be possible?
May 23 12:25:32 <hrw> morning
May 23 12:26:49 <Bish> again: will i be able to use the neo as a little stereo(loud music) ?
May 23 12:26:50 <Bish> :P
May 23 12:27:09 <XorA> Bish: yes
May 23 12:27:25 <XorA> Bish: buts its a crappy little stereo with much distortion
May 23 12:27:48 <cheesy> like most little stereos out there ;)
May 23 12:27:56 * XorA was playing Toxic Piggy mashup and it was very audible
May 23 12:28:40 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: I'm hurt you didn't jump at the chance of taking my job :(
May 23 12:29:35 <XorA> time for #openmoko-job-swap
May 23 12:30:05 <Stephmw> XorA: but what can I do if I can't even give it away?
May 23 12:38:16 <Bish> but it will just be like a samsung d500-900 XorA ?
May 23 12:38:22 <Bish> or crappier :P?
May 23 12:41:07 <Bish> your position in openmoko developement is quite special , uh? XorA ?
May 23 12:42:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03andrew * r2068 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (14 files): Save/restore support for PXA2xx on-chip peripherals, the microdrive, the MAX7310, MAX1110/1, ADS7846, Scoop devices, Sharp flash.
May 23 12:50:07 <XorA> Bish: who is special? I would say yes, very comparable with my wifes D500/D600
May 23 12:50:19 <XorA> Bish: when it has the speaker thingy plugged in
May 23 12:50:51 <XorA> Stephmw: what do you do?
May 23 12:51:21 <Bish> great ;) ... 
May 23 12:51:43 <Stephmw> XorA: J2ME/C embedded api development
May 23 12:51:47 <jeddy3_> are we talking about audio quality with headphones or builtin speakers?
May 23 12:51:54 <Bish> builtin speakers
May 23 12:52:00 <XorA> Stephmw: it has the J letter in it, no-one wants that :-)
May 23 12:52:01 <CM> Stephmw: Sounds pretty nice, why quitting?
May 23 12:52:24 <Stephmw> CM: burnout
May 23 12:52:35 <CM> XorA: Try something with APL and VBA in it and you'll have something that truly sucks.. :P
May 23 12:52:38 * XorA used to maintain a JavaCrud VM
May 23 12:52:50 <XorA> CM: been forced to do VBA before
May 23 12:52:57 <jeddy3_> Bish, ok
May 23 12:54:16 <Stephmw> CM: I've gotten to the stage that I don't think it's in anyone's best interest for me to be working where I do. I've ceased to care about even the most important errors.
May 23 12:54:38 <CM> Stephmw: I know the feeling.. Sucks. Definitely time for a break
May 23 12:56:54 <XorA> Stephmw: harsh
May 23 12:57:03 <XorA> Stephmw: but Ive reached that position in jobs before
May 23 12:58:21 <Stephmw> XorA: aye, I realised what it was about a month ago... one of those bugs blocking a megabucks deal arrived in my inbox and I just didn't give a shit
May 23 12:58:33 <Stephmw> XorA: after a good think I realised that wasn't right
May 23 12:58:38 <Pander> I also was forced to work with crappy development environments and programming languages but sometimes there is no way of having (especially a big organisation) of seeing the things like VBA is bad for you health ;)
May 23 12:58:53 <CM> XorA: This is actual APL code, taken here at my work: http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/apl2.png
May 23 12:59:04 <ewon> APL!?
May 23 12:59:07 <CM> It's a true pain to read.. The sooner it dies the better
May 23 12:59:15 <XorA> CM: Access has been blocked because:
May 23 12:59:24 <XorA> Prohibited by URL database (Pornography-Adult)
May 23 12:59:27 <XorA> :-D
May 23 12:59:36 <ewon> sorry... but APL?
May 23 12:59:42 <guaqua> :D :D :D
May 23 12:59:42 <ewon> who the hell uses APL?
May 23 13:00:03 <guaqua> university blocked as porn :D
May 23 13:00:12 <guaqua> hilarious
May 23 13:00:58 <XorA> holy crap, what is that freaky language
May 23 13:01:12 <CM> XorA: It doesn't even use ascii chars
May 23 13:04:19 <ewon> CM: are you a mainframe programmer or something?
May 23 13:04:28 <CM> SpeedEvil: If you get this job you'll be able to work on it forever: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39800
May 23 13:04:29 <ewon> or working for someobscure defence contractor?
May 23 13:05:01 <CM> ewon: Actually I'm a consultant, working at Volvo on a crazy assignment
May 23 13:05:26 <ewon> CM: madness... APL?
May 23 13:05:34 <ewon> do you use it for its parallel nature?
May 23 13:05:40 <ewon> or simple inertia?
May 23 13:05:46 <CM> They use Excel with VBA, and an APL mainfraim as backend
May 23 13:05:54 <CM> It's pure madness
May 23 13:06:06 <Bish> :>
May 23 13:06:13 <CM> But all production and planning depends on it, and they pay quite well
May 23 13:06:17 <ewon> o0
May 23 13:06:23 <Bish> madness? spartaaaaaa !
May 23 13:06:36 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Iztok.jeras]] [[Wishlist:Finger_based_Ebook_Reader]]
May 23 13:06:50 <CM> They don't even use a database, but some ancient ShareFile filesystem
May 23 13:08:14 * CM goes back to the 3270 terminal
May 23 13:08:20 <ewon> inertia is truly a terrible thing
May 23 13:08:42 <CM> ewon: Surely, and the unwillingness to pay for new systems
May 23 13:08:59 <CM> Even if the old ones are waisting the time of hundreds of people
May 23 13:09:06 <ewon> beancounters are probably of the opinion of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
May 23 13:09:28 <ewon> clearly, the beancounters need to be rounded up and catapulted into the ocean
May 23 13:09:34 <CM> There's files in there not modified since 1982
May 23 13:09:41 <ewon> I was *born* in 1982
May 23 13:09:55 <CM> I was 3 at least.. ;)
May 23 13:20:25 * mwester feels old...
May 23 13:22:34 <Stephmw> meing godt. Selling 200mw lasers is irresponsible... http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1997
May 23 13:22:43 <Stephmw> let's bolt 2 onto a neo
May 23 13:22:52 <Bish> lol
May 23 13:23:35 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2069 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (5 files): openmoko-dialer: PIN request done
May 23 13:23:39 <Bish> lasers suck :/
May 23 13:25:07 <ewon> Bish: ?
May 23 13:25:26 <guaqua> "Cuts thin plastic (tested with thin plastic bags)"
May 23 13:25:30 <Bish> lol
May 23 13:27:25 <baird> Stephmw: you'll find a 200mW laser inside most DVD burners. (they've just been made 'intrinsically safe')
May 23 13:28:17 <Stephmw> baird: right - it's the ready availability of the handheld variaty I find irresponsible
May 23 13:28:26 <baird> http://www.felesmagus.com/pages/lasers-howto.html
May 23 13:28:27 <Stephmw> baird: at that power anyways
May 23 13:30:09 <baird> Stephmw: don't worry, the people selling them are doing it for the very gross profit (for something most of us could make for free from parts off the floor..)
May 23 13:32:39 * cheesy thinks baird riddles
May 23 13:32:55 <baird> Apparently a lot of the 5mW laser pointers can be modded (removing a resistor) to do full power as well..
May 23 13:47:12 <LetoTo> /bin/sh: line 1: ./setup-env: No such file or directory
May 23 13:47:13 <LetoTo> make: *** [setup-qemu] Error 1
May 23 13:47:17 <LetoTo> anyone seen that before?
May 23 13:47:26 * LetoTo is a bit behind on current developments
May 23 13:47:29 <SpeedEvil> ls -l /bin/sh
May 23 13:47:41 <LetoTo>  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Nov 18  2006 /bin/sh -> bash
May 23 13:47:51 <SpeedEvil> Prolly not that then.
May 23 13:47:57 <LetoTo> no :)
May 23 13:48:24 <SpeedEvil> And my bad - that'd have given 'bad interpreter'.
May 23 13:52:32 <Fletch_work> counter
May 23 13:52:32 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 11:03:42 (4.461 +-4.5 days) (1255;212)
May 23 13:53:41 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2070 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokogsmd/ (moko-gsmd-connection.c moko-gsmd-connection.h): libmokogsmd: add sending PIN
May 23 13:53:49 <guaqua> what do you think, might these work with neo? http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.148
May 23 13:56:02 <roh> guaqua as far as i can see all the products on that page should work with a moko
May 23 13:56:22 <Bish> sure guaqua .. but someone has to code the software 4 it
May 23 13:57:05 <guaqua> i have no idea how bluetooth stuff works, that's why i'm asking :)
May 23 13:57:33 <mjr> headsets are pretty standard issue, should work with generic drivers I think
May 23 13:57:35 <roh>  
May 23 13:57:40 <roh> yep
May 23 13:57:48 <mjr> at least almost all dongles work
May 23 13:58:03 <mjr> and the "almost" is there to accomodate dongles I haven't heard of
May 23 13:59:23 <guaqua> there was also the headphone-style one. is it possible to get stereo sound out of the neo bluetooth?
May 23 13:59:32 <XorA> A2DP
May 23 14:00:01 <guaqua> yes
May 23 14:00:06 <guaqua> so it can be done?
May 23 14:00:14 <XorA> guaqua: yes, thats already in OE
May 23 14:00:17 <Bish> guaqua: listen, yes :P 
May 23 14:00:31 <guaqua> Bish: that wasn't a yes, it was just a term
May 23 14:01:13 <XorA> more fun is to turn Neo into a headset hacking system
May 23 14:01:24 <XorA> "I am the voice inside your head....."
May 23 14:01:27 <guaqua> :D
May 23 14:01:41 <guaqua> also sending other disturbing messages over bluetooth
May 23 14:01:43 <mjr> "Hello John, God here..."
May 23 14:02:08 <guaqua> the random goatse and...well...you know...
May 23 14:02:16 <mjr> "Yes, to the nearest mobile store, and ask for a Neo one-nine-seven-three, that's right"
May 23 14:02:24 <DukeOfURL> God: m or f?
May 23 14:02:31 <XorA> goatse tooth :-)
May 23 14:03:34 <Bish> lol
May 23 14:04:08 <Bish> he said jehova
May 23 14:19:49 <Bish> i still dont get it.. is p1+ the final hardware version? 
May 23 14:20:46 <guaqua> would this work as the audio adapter to get 3.5mm standard jack output stereo? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.733
May 23 14:21:12 <Bish> sure man
May 23 14:21:13 <Bish> why not?
May 23 14:22:11 <guaqua> Bish: for example if it's not wired right
May 23 14:22:35 <Bish> ...
May 23 14:23:25 <guaqua> you can give me ... all you want as long as you are not the paying for the uncompatible adapter
May 23 14:26:45 <guaqua> Bish: also, it's down to luck if the 4 ring setup in neo will match the one in that adapter
May 23 14:28:27 <Bish> if not .. u have to buy xD 2,5 mm headphone
May 23 14:28:59 <guaqua> or a 2.5 jack and rig up something
May 23 14:31:54 <cheesy> 3,5 would be better for me too
May 23 14:32:26 <cheesy> i have an adapter and it only works mono
May 23 14:32:49 <cheesy> so guaqua's question is a good one :)
May 23 14:33:24 <Bish> yeah for me too, but it doesnt matter xD
May 23 14:33:31 <cheesy> but I don't have a neo YET
May 23 14:33:49 <Bish> 2,5 only supports mono oO?
May 23 14:34:00 <Bish> thats bad
May 23 14:34:32 <guaqua> it's a 4 ring connector so it should support stereo
May 23 14:34:42 <Bish> ah cool
May 23 14:35:02 <guaqua> but it's also a special connector so an adapter would be cool
May 23 14:36:08 <Bish> i dont get it why did they chose 2,5?
May 23 14:36:15 <kslater> there is a new standard for 4 connector 2.5mm plugs for new phones. should support mic + stereo out
May 23 14:36:23 <Bish> choose*
May 23 14:36:53 <Bish> cool kslater 
May 23 14:38:42 <Stephmw> iirc there's something to do with being able to enforce sound limiting
May 23 14:39:11 <Stephmw> I know some handsets won't recognise the earphones if the impedance doesn't match what it's expecting
May 23 14:39:15 <Bish> but there will be a special headset 4 the neo .. or its standard for mobiles kslater 
May 23 14:39:18 <XorA> mic + stereo-out + call answer button
May 23 14:39:39 <XorA> Bish: neo headset comes with phone, and isnt compatible with ones from HTC or Motorola
May 23 14:39:54 <Bish> if it gets broken?
May 23 14:40:01 <XorA> Bish: cry
May 23 14:40:08 <Bish> i cant buy a new one? 
May 23 14:40:18 <Bish> without buying a new neo xD
May 23 14:40:25 <XorA> Bish: they havent even made the phones yet, I was kidding :-)
May 23 14:40:34 <Bish> lolz
May 23 14:40:52 <XorA> but I bought an adapter that the wiki said was compatible, but it is not
May 23 14:41:01 <XorA> so information in wiki must be wrong
May 23 14:41:06 <Bish> ah XorA .. just answer .. p1+ is the final version?
May 23 14:41:25 <Bish> i still dont get it :P 
May 23 14:41:46 <guaqua> Bish: no-one knows
May 23 14:42:04 <Bish> oh damn ! i need a openmoko mobile :p
May 23 14:42:07 <guaqua> if you had read the wiki, you'd know as much as the rest of us
May 23 15:03:56 <don-o> counter
May 23 15:03:56 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 10:28:01 (4.436 +-4.4 days) (1256;212)
May 23 15:06:36 <aloril> (script) planet: Koen Kooi: When hosting turns evil http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/when-hosting-turns-evil
May 23 15:09:41 <CM> Bish: About that audio jack. Paste from May 02 2007:
May 23 15:09:41 <CM> 12:39 <CM> I'd like an L-shaped 2.5mm -> 3.5mm connector for the audio
May 23 15:09:41 <CM> 12:44 <LaF0rge> we'll have an adapter, L shaped, but not right now.  just nobody seems to have time to source them in quantities here  yet ;)
May 23 15:09:46 <CM> 12:44 <CM> Ah, nice. Thanks for the info
May 23 15:10:13 * CM appologises for the unnecessary last row
May 23 15:10:31 <SuN> That's 2 unnecessary lines already!
May 23 15:10:42 <CM> :P
May 23 15:10:52 * CM hides in shame once again
May 23 15:10:58 <jouston> 4 lines...
May 23 15:11:46 <jouston> Looking for 2.5mm --> 3.5mm?
May 23 15:11:47 <aloril> jouston: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 23 15:11:58 <guaqua> jouston: yes
May 23 15:13:34 <jouston> Not really difficult, in China you can buy them almost every corner
May 23 15:13:49 <guaqua> here not :)
May 23 15:15:49 <jouston> http://pc-mobile.net/compaq.htm
May 23 15:16:05 <jouston> one for $3.25. Not too bad.
May 23 15:16:38 <XorA> you have to get the right 2.5mm -> 3.5mm
May 23 15:16:40 <guaqua> it's a 4-ring connector in neo
May 23 15:16:43 <don-o> i just noticed the neo1973_hardware page lists a Stylus
May 23 15:16:45 <guaqua> that won't do
May 23 15:16:47 <XorA> the wiring isnt any form of standard
May 23 15:17:37 <don-o> does anyone use the stylus over a finger touch?
May 23 15:17:46 <XorA> me
May 23 15:17:51 <XorA> finger touch sucks ass
May 23 15:18:06 <don-o> dou. ive always despised stylii
May 23 15:18:28 <poffy> finger touch > stylus
May 23 15:18:35 <poffy> Better interface, in my opinion.
May 23 15:18:58 <ynezz> faster
May 23 15:19:03 <poffy> yar
May 23 15:19:07 * mwester lacks sharp pointy fingernails, and thus prefers a stylus
May 23 15:19:12 <guaqua> i hate having to get out the stylus if there's something straightforward i want to do
May 23 15:19:19 * koen hates greasy fingerprints on screens
May 23 15:19:34 <poffy> koen: It's not that difficult to remove them
May 23 15:19:40 * guaqua thinks koen is obsessive about cleanliness ;)
May 23 15:19:41 <jouston> Use force, luke
May 23 15:19:49 <XorA> my thumb is about 1/4 the size of the neo screen, makes it kind of not very subtle
May 23 15:20:14 <ynezz> so make it smaller
May 23 15:20:30 <poffy> I can't wait till I get a Neo, and start working with it
May 23 15:21:25 <poffy> Has anyone started working with a map/GPS app yet?
May 23 15:21:47 <koen> like maemo-mapper?
May 23 15:22:30 <poffy> I guess so
May 23 15:22:34 <poffy> I've never seen that, before
May 23 15:22:58 <poffy> I was thinking of using the Yahoo! maps dev interface
May 23 15:23:21 <koen> heh
May 23 15:23:30 <koen> yahoo only has sane coverage in the US
May 23 15:24:01 <koen> and *newsflash*, there are people living outside of the US
May 23 15:24:06 <poffy> :O
May 23 15:24:07 <hrw> yahoo? someone use it?
May 23 15:24:24 <poffy> I
May 23 15:24:25 <XorA> koen: we are figments of the US imagination :-)
May 23 15:24:28 <poffy> Impossible.
May 23 15:24:36 <koen> hrw: only on flickr
May 23 15:24:37 <hrw> koen: US is a city in Brazil?
May 23 15:24:43 <XorA> koen: also anyone living outside US is a terrorist
May 23 15:24:47 <koen> hrw: I wish
May 23 15:25:03 <koen> if it was in brazil, chicks would weigh less than 200kg
May 23 15:31:05 <Stephmw> hey Tim
May 23 15:43:26 <CoreDump|home> hi
May 23 15:58:01 <TRIsoft> gtg, cu
May 23 15:58:02 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r2071 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-incoming.c dialer-window-outgoing.c): 
May 23 15:58:02 <CIA-24> openmoko: openmoko-dialer:
May 23 15:58:02 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * add a journal entry for incoming calls
May 23 15:58:02 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * cancel incoming call window if call is disconnected
May 23 15:58:02 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * cancel outgoing window if call is rejected
May 23 15:58:03 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * remove some unrequired code from dialer-window-outgoing.c
May 23 16:00:56 <thomasg__> seems the dialer gets more and more usable
May 23 16:01:15 <koen> as long as only o-hand people touch the code :)
May 23 16:12:16 <guaqua> are there specifications for knock and on hold services?
May 23 16:15:22 <dietricha> counter
May 23 16:15:43 <dietricha> :o
May 23 16:18:55 <SpeedEvil> A week or so. Maybe a plutonian year, who knows.
May 23 16:19:08 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 09:50:31 (4.410 +-4.4 days) (1257;212)
May 23 16:20:43 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
May 23 16:21:52 <LetoTo> is there a stable "known to work" mokomakefile version?
May 23 16:22:06 <LetoTo> one where i can just wget it, hit make qemu and wait?
May 23 16:22:46 <Hopscotch> the one from two days ago was
May 23 16:23:00 <LetoTo> you have a copy of that one?
May 23 16:23:12 <Hopscotch> yeah, of course
May 23 16:23:54 <Hopscotch> gimme an email address and you can have your copy
May 23 16:24:16 <LetoTo> paul@xelerance.com
May 23 16:24:20 * aloril wonders if his hardware is getting unstable
May 23 16:26:43 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: Few comments after reading Wiki
May 23 16:38:19 <LetoTo> Hopscotch: thanks. Guess you got greylisted, so I'll first grab lunch :)
May 23 16:40:15 <LetoTo> ohh, make setup got added to the mokomakefile. that explains things
May 23 16:40:27 * LetoTo got further and now needs to install gcc3 :P
May 23 16:41:00 <thomasg__> gcc4 doesnt work?
May 23 16:41:13 <roh> thomasg__ not for qemu
May 23 16:41:51 <roh> thomasg__ qemu dynamic recompiler cannot cope with gcc4 yet. but thats an upstream problem
May 23 16:42:07 <thomasg__> k, thx
May 23 16:42:45 <LetoTo> WARNING: "gcc" looks like gcc 4.x
May 23 16:42:45 <LetoTo> Looking for gcc 3.x
May 23 16:42:45 <LetoTo> gcc 3.x not found!
May 23 16:42:45 <LetoTo> QEMU is known to have problems when compiled with gcc 4.x
May 23 16:42:45 <LetoTo> It is recommended that you use gcc 3.x to build QEMU
May 23 16:42:45 <LetoTo> To use this compiler anyway, configure with --disable-gcc-check
May 23 16:42:47 <LetoTo> make: *** [setup-qemu] Error 1
May 23 16:43:06 <LetoTo> hmm might be tricky to get gcc3 on an FC6 machine
May 23 16:44:10 <poffy> LetoTo: Try using a paste bin, next time
May 23 16:45:17 <LetoTo> for 6 lines?
May 23 16:45:31 <poffy> Yeah
May 23 16:45:38 <LetoTo> kinda silly...
May 23 16:45:41 <poffy> Not really
May 23 16:55:00 <LetoTo> Please wait, programming the NAND flash...
May 23 16:55:01 <LetoTo> openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 20266 Segmentation fault      $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_image" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0
May 23 16:55:13 <LetoTo> okay, i guess don't ignore the "use gcc3" advise :P
May 23 16:55:34 <hypa7ia> :)
May 23 16:55:47 <roh> its not really an advice. it just breaks since the binary which gcc4 generates is slightly different
May 23 16:56:22 <roh> the dynamic recompiler chops small packages of compiled instructions in pieces and puzzles them together in runtime.
May 23 16:57:59 <LetoTo> !lunch
May 23 17:03:26 <buz> so our guess of s3c244X wasnt so bad
May 23 17:06:43 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: Few comments after reading Wiki
May 23 17:18:22 <PBeck> hi
May 23 17:21:27 <denis^da> How long does it normally take to execute the "make setup" of the Moko Makefile
May 23 17:21:28 <denis^da> ?
May 23 17:23:26 <thresh> years
May 23 17:24:22 <denis^da> :)
May 23 17:27:41 <CoreDump|home> !ombug 100
May 23 17:27:42 <cdbot2> * * Bug 100, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
May 23 17:27:42 <cdbot2> * * laforge(AT)openmoko.org: Implement Cell Broadcast support
May 23 17:27:44 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=100
May 23 17:30:24 <kaatis>  /wc
May 23 17:32:25 <Sufflope_> counter
May 23 17:32:26 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 4 days 09:13:46 (4.385 +-4.4 days) (1258;212)
May 23 17:58:05 <fatman> Hello, I am Fat Man and I weigh 400 pounds!  You can see video of my supreme fatness at www.fat-man.org
May 23 18:00:39 <aloril2> if we don't  here any beep this week, then maybe June is more probable than May ..
May 23 18:01:27 <SpeedEvil> 400 pounds is not supreme fatnes.
May 23 18:01:38 <SpeedEvil> Ok, it's fat, but not supremely fat.
May 23 18:04:26 <DukeOfURL> was it spam?
May 23 18:04:35 <SpeedEvil> yes.
May 23 18:05:07 <SpeedEvil> Spammed #defocus too
May 23 18:08:30 <tholin> maybe he was just a fat man who wanted to share his fatness.
May 23 18:09:41 <Stephmw> he could easily do that on the tinterweb. oh, he did.
May 23 18:10:32 <hrw> someone with gta01bv4 here?
May 23 18:12:07 <aevin> hrw: running into hw trouble? (i don't have any GTA01s, btw)
May 23 18:13:09 <hrw> rather want to ask someone with hardware 
May 23 18:15:00 <koen> is it much work?
May 23 18:15:14 <koen> and does it require booting it?
May 23 18:15:24 * koen <- still victim of broken uboot
May 23 18:17:34 <hrw> koen: I had problem with charge-boot-die loop
May 23 18:17:49 <hrw> now updated to 2062 uboot and it looks like bv3 and bv4 works ok
May 23 18:18:07 * koen should look at reflashing the neo tomorrow
May 23 18:19:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]] [[Talk:FAQ]] [[Wishlist:Camera]]
May 23 18:22:08 <hrw> cu
May 23 18:37:06 <pvanhoof> mickeyl, ping
May 23 18:46:16 <bmidgley> koen: do you have to use the dev board to fix uboot?
May 23 18:46:47 <koen> yes, but a nand erase via uboot console would do the job as well I suspect
May 23 18:47:27 <balrog-kun> uhm
May 23 18:47:50 <balrog-kun> make sure you don't run out of battery or reset between erasing and downloading the new one
May 23 18:48:17 <koen> right
May 23 18:48:40 <koen> I'm going to reflash a rootfs first
May 23 18:48:53 <balrog-kun> doesn't "nand write.e" handle the erasing automatically?
May 23 18:48:54 <koen> if that works I don't really need a new uboot
May 23 18:49:27 <koen> balrog-kun: I get "NAND not erased before flashing" sympoms when flashing know-good rootfses
May 23 18:50:10 <balrog-kun> i see..
May 23 19:15:12 <zecke> anyone in need for a ticket to the LinuxTag?
May 23 19:16:53 <alphaone> zecke: Everyone seems to win two invitations :-)
May 23 19:17:05 <zecke> ;)
May 23 19:17:17 <LuitvD_> what's linuxtag?
May 23 19:17:37 <zecke> a secret organisation, operating in secret 
May 23 19:17:45 <zecke> alphaone: we could trade them?
May 23 19:17:57 <alphaone> zecke: :-)
May 23 19:18:50 <LuitvD_> a ticket is only 11 euro...
May 23 19:18:56 <LuitvD_> that's not much...
May 23 19:19:29 <LuitvD_> the only problem is getting to berlin...
May 23 19:19:30 <Elrond> Are there any plans on giving people some reward, if they get people to buy a neo? ;o)
May 23 19:19:54 <LuitvD_> Elrond: isn't the device enaugh of a reward?
May 23 19:19:55 <buz> i thought linuxtag was being boycotted for some silly political reason
May 23 19:20:44 <Elrond> LuitvD_ - Well, if I get someone _else_ to buy a neo... I could get something. ;o)
May 23 19:20:53 <Elrond> <-- has no time for linuxtag.
May 23 19:20:54 <LuitvD_> ah, right :P
May 23 19:20:59 <zecke> buz: right, but we boycott round robin
May 23 19:21:06 <buz> lol
May 23 19:21:32 <buz> i'll keep that in mind next time some silly activists wants me to do $stupidThing
May 23 19:21:43 <buz> (usually pay money for $stupidCause)
May 23 19:22:25 <Elrond> Ohh, there are really people boycotting linuxtag because of schaeuble?
May 23 19:22:28 <zecke> hmm, I should try another strategy.
May 23 19:22:40 <zecke> I have two LinuxTag tickets and I will sell two for the price of one?
May 23 19:23:11 <alphaone> zecke: Just pick someone and enter their name and Mail address :-)
May 23 19:23:21 <Elrond> *G*
May 23 19:23:26 <LuitvD> buz: where $stupidCause = 10 * $ownersPayroll + 1 * $realCauseThoughStillStupid
May 23 19:23:31 <zecke> alphaone: well, I'm passed that point
May 23 19:23:40 <buz> LuitvD: something like that
May 23 19:25:23 <LuitvD> lol, about that linuxTag ticket: the "Dauerausweis" sounds too much like the WWII's "Ausweise bitte!" :P
May 23 19:26:05 <Elrond> Huh, strange comparison.
May 23 19:26:33 <LuitvD> the word just makes me remember that 'sound' from a movie I guess...
May 23 19:26:57 <LuitvD> a movie about WWII (one of the million available... so many choices)
May 23 19:28:05 <buz> just because its german doesnt mean its ww2
May 23 19:28:24 <buz> i mean dutch arent necessarily stoned either
May 23 19:28:53 <Elrond> *g*
May 23 19:28:56 <buz> ~lart toshiba
May 23 19:28:56 * apt declares toshiba a moron
May 23 19:29:06 <buz> evil would seem like a better fit
May 23 19:29:55 <LuitvD> buz: no, but everyone in the world's first impression of the dutch is "drugs and hookers", so is our dutch response to german language being ww2-ish that strange? :P
May 23 19:30:16 <LuitvD> apt: now already?
May 23 19:31:00 <LuitvD> s/apt/buz/
May 23 19:31:00 <apt> LuitvD meant: buz: now already?
May 23 19:31:30 <buz> tell me about it, with swiss it's one of banks, cheese or watches
May 23 19:31:52 <LuitvD> yeah
May 23 19:31:53 <LuitvD> sure
May 23 19:31:57 <LuitvD> and CERN ofcourse
May 23 19:31:59 <buz> never mind that almost all of our cheese isnt fit for human consumption
May 23 19:32:21 <buz> and we have our share of drugs, too
May 23 19:32:46 <LuitvD> I'd say CERN, banks, watches and victorinox :)
May 23 19:32:50 <keesj> we as in Swiss people?
May 23 19:33:32 <buz> keesj: yes, drug laws are quite liberal
May 23 19:33:41 <buz> CERN is for geeks only ;)
May 23 19:34:07 <buz> and technically, pharma is probably more important than banking
May 23 19:34:14 <LuitvD> 'die schweiz' might have liberal drug laws, but the netherlands is famous because of it's 'gedoogbeleid' :P
May 23 19:34:42 <LuitvD> CERN is cool :P
May 23 19:34:59 * LuitvD realizes he must be a geek then
May 23 19:35:19 <buz> you dont say
May 23 19:37:10 <keesj> and les horibles cernettes!
May 23 19:38:12 <guaqua> cernettes...that's a known term too? :D
May 23 19:38:27 <buz> i doubt there's many of them
May 23 19:39:11 <buz> (close to none if eth is any indication for cern)
May 23 19:40:25 <keesj> but we are really off topic
May 23 20:00:50 <don-o> counter go faster.
May 23 20:19:42 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03roh * r2072 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-power_control.patch: 
May 23 20:19:42 <CIA-24> openmoko: fix for setting up the gps 1.5V correctly on gta01bv03/04
May 23 20:19:42 <CIA-24> openmoko: is PCF50606_REGULATOR_D2REG should be PCF50606_REGULATOR_DCD
May 23 20:19:42 <CIA-24> openmoko: thanks to sean_c
May 23 20:20:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bluetooth_Support]]
May 23 20:29:57 <roh> can someone please test the last patch on a bv3 or bv4? i only have a bv2 here *sigh*
May 23 20:30:18 <LetoTo> "only"? :P
May 23 20:30:25 <LetoTo> are we supposed to feel sorry for you :P
May 23 20:31:12 * SpeedEvil feels sorry for roh.
May 23 20:35:41 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03andrew * r2073 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/ (Makefile env flash.sh): Use an overlay flash image by default.
May 23 20:35:48 <alphaone> roh: I'm currently building a new kernel :-)
May 23 20:35:57 <roh> alphaone :)
May 23 20:54:10 <alphaone> roh: it compiles and boots.
May 23 20:54:31 <alphaone> roh: (How) can I test gps?
May 23 20:54:34 <roh> thats a good sign for me ;)
May 23 20:54:55 <roh> alphaone with that gllin stuff which is flying around. i do not have it myself
May 23 20:58:00 <Elrond> alphaone - I plan to write some gps test tools, when my buildenv is going.
May 23 20:58:48 <alphaone> Elrond: Great.
May 23 20:59:05 <CM> Elrond: What buildenv?
May 23 20:59:12 * CM is hoping for a vmware image ;)
May 23 20:59:28 <Elrond> CM - The mokomakefile based one...
May 23 20:59:37 <Elrond> NOTE: Handling BitBake files: - (3022/4339) [69 %]
May 23 20:59:38 <CM> Elrond: btw, like the dude yesterday writing Erlond all the time :D
May 23 20:59:41 <Elrond> ... and going. ;o)
May 23 20:59:43 <alphaone> I copied gllin back onto this image, but it segfaults. Seems I missed copying something 
May 23 20:59:52 <CM> Heh, I never get it to finish a build.. 
May 23 20:59:58 <CM> Failed on kdrive last time
May 23 21:00:47 <Elrond> Huh, didn't notice the guy misspelling my name...
May 23 21:01:52 <roh> alphaone gllin is oabi only afaik
May 23 21:01:56 <Elrond> BTW: Any idea on the unit of /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/chgcur ?
May 23 21:02:49 <koen> Elrond: iirc mA
May 23 21:02:57 <alphaone> roh: Well, I did all the testing I can think of. If you want me to test something else, go ahead.
May 23 21:03:27 <roh> alphaone i dunno.. thanks for now
May 23 21:03:32 <alphaone> np
May 23 21:03:36 <Elrond> koen - I usually have values >1000. You want to tell me, it's doing one ampere in there?
May 23 21:03:47 <koen> I don't think so...
May 23 21:03:48 <roh> atleast i didn't break svn %-)
May 23 21:04:13 <alphaone> ;-)
May 23 21:04:38 <Elrond> koen - Sometimes I have >2000 even.
May 23 21:05:01 <Elrond> Now it's 746.
May 23 21:07:28 <balrog-kun> "chgcur" is not a HWMON compliant name so it doesn't have to be in miliamperes
May 23 21:07:46 <roh> so.. gtg... the bar calls
May 23 21:14:18 <CM> Elrond: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Battery_charging_current says it's milliamperes
May 23 21:18:57 <Elrond> CM - yuck... 2 Amps... into the battery... I have no idea, what is good for it, but sounds like a whole lot.
May 23 21:19:11 <Elrond> ... not to mention I have no idea, where this toy gets the energy for that.
May 23 21:21:05 <Elrond> Wait... 1 A at say 4 V... that's 4W, right?
May 23 21:21:17 <Elrond> That can't be... not to mention, that the battery would be hot.
May 23 21:21:21 <CM> Elrond: It's the chargin current, so it means it's plugged in, right?
May 23 21:21:33 <CM> If it's not plugged in, it should be 0.
May 23 21:21:50 <CM> And if it's usb, you can only get 5v 0.5A so 2.5W
May 23 21:22:07 <Elrond> CM - Exactly.
May 23 21:50:51 <alphaone> good night everyone
May 23 21:51:06 <Elrond> alphaone - Good night.
May 23 21:57:07 <LuitvD> how do I peacefully interrupt the mokomakefile? :P
May 23 21:57:09 <LuitvD> anyone?
May 23 21:57:16 <LuitvD> just CTRL + C?
May 23 22:08:28 <bmidgley_> anyone tinkered with the wolfson codec?
May 23 22:09:07 <LuitvD> what do ya mean 'tinkered' ?
May 23 22:09:22 <bmidgley_> I'm trying to tell it to route audio to bluetooth
May 23 22:09:40 <bmidgley_> or actually to tell it to quit routing audio everywhere else since bluetooth path is always on
May 23 22:20:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 23 22:24:57 <mrcucumber> 'ello
May 23 23:13:05 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03andrew * r2074 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (8 files): Don't assume "savevm" is followed by poweroff and "loadvm" follows a cold start.
May 24 00:21:17 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]]
May 24 00:50:58 <_ASK> hey
May 24 00:54:12 <_ASK> a friend of mine brought a nec mobilepro 900c with him. it uses xscale PXA255 at 400 MHz, with 64 MB of RAM. Seems to be a very decent device. Do you think it could run open moko?
May 24 00:55:06 <SuN> Why Openmoko?
May 24 00:55:17 <SuN> Plain Angstrom would be more obvious.
May 24 00:55:28 <_ASK> well, very few distros are focused on handhelds
May 24 00:55:44 <_ASK> Angstrom. Ok.
May 24 00:56:30 <SuN> The OpenMoko gui wouldn't make much sense on that screen, I think. Better off with a plain GPE desktop or perhaps IceWM or XFCE.
May 24 00:56:46 <_ASK> well, that's the easy part, I guess
May 24 00:56:55 <_ASK> what i have no idea is how to boot linux on that device
May 24 00:59:21 <SuN> That would be the hard part, yes.
May 24 00:59:32 <SuN> WinCE HPC's are usually not very Linux-friendly.
May 24 00:59:47 <balrog-kun> _ASK: if you manage the port linux kernel to it, OpenMoko should run without problems
May 24 01:00:08 <balrog-kun> but tas SuN suggested there are nicer distros for handhelds that are not phones
May 24 01:00:25 <balrog-kun> and even for phones
May 24 01:01:16 <_ASK> well, the device is getting older and microsoft/nec doesn't seem to care about obsolecense; it's a big shame that there is less and less support each day; the hardware specs are quite decent, even for current devices
May 24 01:02:25 <balrog-kun> the kernel already boots on the Nec mobilepro 7X0 and 8X0 models according to http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/SupportedHandheldSummary
May 24 01:02:42 <balrog-kun> maybe the port wouldn't be very difficult then
May 24 01:03:22 <_ASK> the problem is that 700/800 series are mips based and this one is ARM
May 24 01:03:26 <SuN> Don't assume too much on just that :)
May 24 01:03:35 <balrog-kun> oh
May 24 01:03:44 <SuN> Yep, HPC's are often very different.
May 24 01:03:52 <_ASK> in theory, it would be easier as most devices today are ARM; and this one is XScale
May 24 01:05:01 <balrog-kun> XScale is also quite popular in handhelds and widely supported by linux but there's always the peripheral chips and other thigns that need making drivers
May 24 01:05:43 <SuN> There's one problem with these machines... if NEC wasn't kind enough to enable boot loader access, you can only boot it through WinCE hacks.
May 24 01:06:23 <balrog-kun> that's what HaReT is for :)
May 24 01:06:23 <SuN> And because of that, the newer the device is, the harder it gets (WinCE 2.11 had a fairly blatant bug that enabled Linux to boot from within CE, for instance).
May 24 01:07:05 <_ASK> well, windows mobile and ce are essentially the same thing, isn't it? i've seen many bootloaders that work from whitin windows
May 24 01:07:05 <SuN> Worth a try, I guess.
May 24 01:07:28 <SuN> Yes, but they differ for every flavor (CE version and platform).
May 24 01:10:01 <SuN> And... after boot... there's power management :D
May 24 01:10:24 <SuN> Meaning you'll have a working Linux machine, but it'll not suspend.
May 24 01:10:42 <SuN> Not trying to discourage you or anything, but be prepared for a long and difficult journey.
May 24 01:11:19 <neostrider> hello folks
May 24 01:11:37 <_ASK> =)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 24 02:59:57 2007