**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 30 02:59:57 2007 May 30 04:34:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973]] May 30 04:40:12 hmm.. HXD8 has different screen size than GTA01* and GTA02 most likely has same screen as GTA01, so.. latest Neo1973 edit seems wrong May 30 04:41:57 hmmm May 30 04:42:11 (I'm the one who made that edit) May 30 04:42:24 it's a weird contradictory-seeming piece of information May 30 04:42:39 maybe the comment in the patch is simply incorrect May 30 04:43:05 which comment? May 30 04:43:26 I doubt that HXD8 is a successor in the Neo1973 phone product line May 30 04:43:36 more likely the first in a new product line May 30 04:45:40 the one that suggests that the HXD8 is also a Neo1973 May 30 04:46:24 the help string for the HXD8 machine type is "Say Y here if you are using the FIC Neo1973 GSM Phone" May 30 04:55:18 I'd suspect that's just a cut and paste, or an intention not-telling-what-it-is. May 30 04:55:24 s/intention/intentional/ May 30 04:55:25 rwhitby meant: I'd suspect that's just a cut and paste, or an intentional not-telling-what-it-is. May 30 05:04:02 wiml: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005411.html May 30 05:04:57 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005469.html May 30 05:08:38 I noted the probable incorrectness on the wiki page :) May 30 05:33:26 morning May 30 06:15:29 morning May 30 06:34:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973]] May 30 06:38:53 counter May 30 06:38:53 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: a day 02:40:32 (1.111 +-1.1 days) (1331;218) May 30 07:07:28 good morning May 30 07:14:45 morning May 30 08:10:00 counter May 30 08:10:00 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: a day 01:54:58 (1.080 +-1.1 days) (1332;218) May 30 08:13:10 openmoko: 03thomas * r2099 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): May 30 08:13:10 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-application.c: May 30 08:13:10 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-application.h: May 30 08:13:10 openmoko: Remove moko_application_get_style_pixmap_dir() May 30 08:13:10 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-tool-box.c: (cb_configure): Don't use May 30 08:13:11 openmoko: moko_applicatoin_get_style_pixmap () as it uses some false assumptions. May 30 08:14:04 morning May 30 08:26:43 where do I go to pledge support for CDMA? May 30 08:26:44 Kraln: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) May 30 08:27:21 grep cmda (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ) = no results. May 30 08:33:58 Kraln: put it to hardware wishlist May 30 08:34:09 (if not there already ;-) May 30 08:34:15 it's not there, either. May 30 08:34:25 lasers, ir leds, all sorts of stupid shit May 30 08:34:27 but no cdma May 30 08:35:00 Guess that means not many want cdma ;) May 30 08:35:10 CM: that's a silly guess May 30 08:35:17 mornin' May 30 08:35:18 Why? May 30 08:35:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] May 30 08:35:25 people who do serious data with their phones use EVDO. May 30 08:35:29 edge has nothing on evdo May 30 08:35:36 What about UMTS? May 30 08:35:49 And agreed, edge sucks May 30 08:36:04 is umts 4mbit ? May 30 08:36:09 edge is nice in parts where no UMTS is May 30 08:36:17 2, best case I think May 30 08:37:04 I get by on gprs too, but only for email and rss (Maybe some OperaMini also) May 30 08:38:21 sprint has unlimited evdo for $15/mo May 30 08:38:34 How fast is that? May 30 08:38:42 And only in US.. May 30 08:38:48 and south korea May 30 08:38:51 :) May 30 08:38:53 and anywhere else that cdma is used May 30 08:39:32 like japan... May 30 08:39:51 austrailia May 30 08:40:30 373 million subscribers May 30 08:40:39 http://cdg.org/worldwide/index.asp May 30 08:41:11 Ok, over 2 billion gsm, so it's about a factor 6 or so between them May 30 08:41:42 how many of those two billion gsm can afford phones more than $50 ? May 30 08:41:58 ;) May 30 08:42:28 Probably at least as many as the cdma subscribers, but still. Even steven :) May 30 08:43:39 The only CDMA provider here is switching to GSM :) May 30 08:44:02 morning May 30 08:44:05 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 30%) May 30 08:44:06 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 30%) May 30 08:44:17 still May 30 08:44:25 would you ignore 373 000 000 customers? May 30 08:44:32 aloril: Still 30%? You're quite an optimist May 30 08:44:34 that's an awful lot of people to ignore May 30 08:44:40 Kraln: Yes, I think they will May 30 08:44:43 CM: yeah ;-) May 30 08:45:06 Not because they want to, but because they need another chipset I guess May 30 08:45:09 (for 2 days) May 30 08:45:21 * CM doesn't know enough about the hw issues May 30 08:46:45 even CDMA 1XRTT is better than edge May 30 08:46:58 still no beep, I wonder if May runs out before there is beep May 30 08:49:32 still I think next 2 days is more likely than next year May 30 08:52:10 cdma is entirely the wrong technology for an open phone May 30 08:52:21 simply cant work without the carriers assistance which is the last thing you want May 30 08:52:57 counter May 30 08:52:57 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 30%) P1: a day 01:33:30 (1.065 +-1.1 days) (1333;218) May 30 08:53:20 buz: qualcomm owns the patents on gsm, cdma, and cell technologies May 30 08:53:26 hehe, hope counter does not lie May 30 08:54:30 Kraln: yes, still gsm is a lot more useful for the intended market May 30 08:54:51 heck even nokia, aka biggest mobile vendor there is, largely ignores cdma May 30 08:55:23 why should what nokia does have any bearing on what openmoko does May 30 08:55:40 gsm has better sound quality too May 30 08:55:43 morning May 30 08:55:47 CM: that's bullshit May 30 08:55:58 CM: back it up, or eat it May 30 08:56:04 Yay, mobile format war! May 30 08:56:04 obviously the most successful mobile vendor thinks its ok to ignore a 400mio market in favor of a 2billion one May 30 08:56:05 Kraln: Because it is _impossible_ to produce a CDMA phone without the assistance of the carriers. May 30 08:56:09 * CM eats ;) May 30 08:56:31 Maybe everyone had lousy phones when i was in the US then May 30 08:56:37 Kraln: They own all the rights to the technology, and you simply can't legally produce a phone, without their agreement. May 30 08:56:37 SpeedEvil: how do you figure? May 30 08:56:40 which translates roughly to fic being totally insane if they were to go cdma May 30 08:57:03 Kraln: And even if you could, you couldn't get it connected to their network. May 30 08:57:07 (besides, people in the us usually dont buy phones anyway, so why bother) May 30 08:57:45 SpeedEvil: I'm not arguing, I'm curious. What about CDMA requires carrier support? May 30 08:57:57 Kraln: CDMA differs per carrier. May 30 08:58:11 Kraln: The exact way it differs is generally patented. May 30 08:58:30 Kraln: Even if it wasn't patented, you can't connect an unauthorised phone. May 30 08:58:45 most carriers here will auth your IMEI number if you call and ask May 30 08:58:56 or whatever the number is on cdma phones May 30 08:59:02 Kraln: much more trouble than just sticking a sim card into a phone May 30 08:59:08 CDMA phones _ARE NOT GENERIC_. May 30 08:59:16 The CDMA provider here has to connect your phone to their network for you. May 30 08:59:21 There is one sort of phone per network. May 30 08:59:21 hmm... does it means CDMA has no roaming?? May 30 08:59:36 poruing money in a small market with proprietary technology seems like a sure recipe for disaster May 30 08:59:46 dottedmag: mostly May 30 08:59:46 SpeedEvil: the two (no, three, er, four five?) cdma providers in the US use the same or compatable networks May 30 08:59:54 because there isnt really cdma in most places May 30 08:59:54 I know, because I can roam on them May 30 09:00:05 CDMA only spcifies the way to send the signal over the air May 30 09:00:06 Vitaly: if counter doesn't lie, then its more probably to happen next month :-( May 30 09:00:13 GSM is the whole infrastructure May 30 09:00:31 dottedmag: I am a Sprint US customer. I have roamed on Verizon, Altel, US Cellular, etc towers before May 30 09:00:56 Japan's CDMA is not compatable with US CDMA - but US is compatable with South Korea May 30 09:00:59 personally, i care more for international roaming myself May 30 09:01:06 With GSM, you can take any one of hundreds of millions of SIMs, plug it into any of hundreds of phone models, and it will just work. (if you're in an appropriate frequency area). May 30 09:01:25 even if not, you most always get 1800 signal May 30 09:01:36 outside the us anyway May 30 09:02:01 If the phone is not locked to a network, you can put in any providers SIM, without notifying hte provider. May 30 09:02:21 SpeedEvil: most gsm-network phones sold in this country are locked to the provider anyway May 30 09:02:22 With CDMA, the provider has to authorise each phone. May 30 09:02:44 Unlocked phones are cheap. As are unlocker codes for many phones. May 30 09:02:54 ok, summary: some cdma carriers are compatible, some not, nobody cares, gsm is more open and flexible and widespread, with not as much control on the carrier end May 30 09:03:01 was there anything else? May 30 09:03:32 The carriers on CDMA will not authorise any phone that they have not got control over the design process of. May 30 09:03:48 And probably a slice of the profits. May 30 09:04:03 you enjoy your open networks, then. I'll enjoy my superior coverage, broadband, features, and lower monthly fee ;) May 30 09:04:19 And closed phones. May 30 09:04:38 only because there's no open ones. ;) May 30 09:04:48 !praise GSM May 30 09:04:49 * cdbot2 bows down to GSM and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" May 30 09:04:57 Hehe May 30 09:05:31 If the carrier has to authorise each phone connected to their network, and they won't authorise phones they don't have a slice of the profits from, and influence over configuration, how can you have open phones? May 30 09:05:36 and if it is locked, you're the one to blame for buying it May 30 09:05:46 * mjr would be hard-pressed to enjoy the superior coverage of CDMA here. May 30 09:06:11 in fact, I rather think, off the cuff, that GSM has the superiority in that respect May 30 09:06:14 s/here/anywhere in the world but in some large parts of the USA May 30 09:06:26 CoreDump|afk: and south asia May 30 09:06:32 there's more CDMA in asia than in the US afaik May 30 09:06:39 Though the 15Km range is annoying. May 30 09:06:46 Basically japan = CDMA May 30 09:06:52 most of asia is GSM May 30 09:06:58 Including china. May 30 09:07:05 SpeedEvil: South Korea... India... May 30 09:07:13 most of the world is GSM last time I checked May 30 09:07:20 CoreDump|afk, indeed May 30 09:07:34 Then there's a big difference between "There is CDMA" and "There is only CDMA" May 30 09:08:52 There's a lot of places that are only GSM May 30 09:09:11 CM, indeed. May 30 09:09:25 there's a reason I wouldn't be very happy with a CDMA phone here May 30 09:09:34 anyway, to each his own. Providers on both network lock down their customers as much as they can get away with. May 30 09:09:37 I'm not asking you to be happy May 30 09:09:49 I'm trying to buy a piece of happiness for myself May 30 09:09:56 Kraln: How bad is GSM in the US? May 30 09:09:57 no you're not May 30 09:10:19 CM: where I live? I had tmobile gsm and I dropped calls all the time, no service in my house, where I work, loose it all the time driving May 30 09:10:38 I'm not sure what you're doing, actually, but you're not trying to buy anything, since what you want doesn't and probably will not exist May 30 09:10:56 That sucks for sure May 30 09:10:58 that's a shame, then May 30 09:11:00 lobbying for an open cdma smartfone? May 30 09:11:29 Kraln, futile May 30 09:11:30 I think the problem is with the CDMA carriers and their closed networks May 30 09:12:46 Kraln: btw, speaking of sppeds... hdspa seems (according to wikipedia) much faster than evdo. May 30 09:13:11 s/sppeds/speed/ May 30 09:13:11 ozamosi meant: Kraln: btw, speaking of speed... hdspa seems (according to wikipedia) much faster than evdo. May 30 09:13:23 or well, perhaps I'm too harsh; if Neo takes the world by storm, perhaps then the CDMA carriers will want to join the club and commission a CDMA version from FIC ;P May 30 09:13:36 and yeah, HSDPA is nice May 30 09:13:48 and part of the later UMTS specs May 30 09:13:56 HSDPA is just compression May 30 09:14:08 and in real life, it's about as fast as EVDO Rev A. is *now* May 30 09:14:20 Well, it is so *now*, isn't it? May 30 09:14:24 by time carriers here have rolled it out, sprint and verizon will have upgraded their evdo capacity. May 30 09:14:27 Anyway. This is all pretty irrelevant. May 30 09:14:41 It's rolled out here, at least... May 30 09:14:42 The first models of the neo will be GSM. May 30 09:14:44 Kraln, by the time? HSDPA is now... May 30 09:14:56 maybe not where you live, but pfft May 30 09:14:58 mjr: I'm speaking from my perspective, here in the east coast US. May 30 09:14:59 SpeedEvil, indeed May 30 09:15:02 Maybe after 10 million openmoko phones are out there, some other ones will get made. May 30 09:15:12 For assorted CDMA networks May 30 09:15:31 I find it likely that UMTS versions will get made first May 30 09:15:47 Yeah. May 30 09:16:04 A UMTS phone is comparatively easier - you more or less just buy a module. May 30 09:16:18 indeed, even if the module costs craploads May 30 09:18:12 (oh and incidentally, HSDPA is not "just compression", check your facts) May 30 09:18:33 Sigh. I was about to order a $6 PSP joystick clone. I _hate_ sites that timeout the shopping cart. May 30 09:18:44 Yes, I had $120 of stuff in 30 items. May 30 09:18:56 Am I going to bother entering them again? May 30 09:19:06 (dealextreme.com) May 30 09:19:15 Kraln: it might be more productive to lobby your carrier than FIC for open cdma phone May 30 09:19:23 - for an analog stick experiment. May 30 09:19:41 aloril, indeed. May 30 09:19:41 aloril: I doubt either of them gives a flying monkey what I think May 30 09:19:59 Phone them every so often, and moan. May 30 09:20:44 I get to moan at them tomorrow May 30 09:20:44 SpeedEvil: Hehe.. I just pictured another kind of moaning. Think they would hang up at the support centre May 30 09:20:47 they messed up my texting May 30 09:20:55 in Finland somebody was offering to switch my gsm network provider: I said roughly "No way, you don't have fixed price GPRS" May 30 09:20:57 Kraln, considering your carrier's co-operation would be essential in any case, they would still be the first to complain to May 30 09:21:19 * aloril notices in recent advertisement that they now have fixed price GPRS (though still more expensive) May 30 09:21:30 Annoyingly. May 30 09:21:30 doubt that comment had much effect though ;-) May 30 09:21:32 openmoko: 03mickey * r2100 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (files/session openmoko-session_svn.bb): oe/openmoko-base: start openmoko-today instead of matchbox-desktop May 30 09:21:43 I can't get fixed price data without a contract. May 30 09:21:48 Kraln: how about you simply switch to a gsm carrier May 30 09:21:52 its not like they dont exist in the us May 30 09:22:05 buz: my coverage under gsm is simply unacceptable May 30 09:22:07 vote with your feet May 30 09:22:10 It _would_ be $40 or so/mo - for 1G or so capped per month plus lots of calls. May 30 09:22:16 buz, he did say at least Tmobile had very bad coverage May 30 09:22:26 sorry, got kicked out before May 30 09:22:38 does neo even work with tmobile's weird freq? May 30 09:22:47 which _is_ a good reason to not use GSM, just that CDMA still isn't very viable for this kind of thing May 30 09:23:02 plus, no one else has the kind of deal I'm getting. unlimited data/texts, 500 anytime minutes, nights/weekends starting at 7, $30/mo May 30 09:23:09 in this country, anyway May 30 09:23:30 you could hook an evdo usb modem to your neo hehehe May 30 09:23:35 buz, :D May 30 09:23:46 if the neo has bluetooth, I could theorhetically harness evdo that way, yeah May 30 09:23:51 it has May 30 09:23:55 Neo will have bluetooth May 30 09:24:34 s/will/does/ May 30 09:24:38 'course, carrying two phones isn't the best solution out there, but I do seem to recall making the same thought experiment with USB/BT UMTS solutions ;) May 30 09:24:40 apropos modems, swisscom are total nitwits, they ship expresscard hdspa modems, but they dont have drivers for them May 30 09:24:44 funny, eh May 30 09:25:17 anyway, Neo is quad-band, should be all the in-use GSM frequency ranges AFAIK, but not quite sure May 30 09:25:20 in some way, neo would be alinux pda then May 30 09:25:31 ah if its quadband it will work with tmobile usa May 30 09:25:44 whats on 900mhz anyway May 30 09:25:54 openmoko: 03thomas * r2101 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-history.c dialer-window-history.h): (log message trimmed) May 30 09:25:54 openmoko: Patch by: Neil J Patel May 30 09:25:54 openmoko: * Cleans up code to have only one function to insert entries into the May 30 09:25:54 openmoko: list-store. May 30 09:25:54 openmoko: * Adds a 'sorting' model on top of the filtered model, so that entries May 30 09:25:58 openmoko: are sorted from most recent first. May 30 09:26:00 openmoko: * Pressing the delete key on a number will popup a dialog asking if you May 30 09:26:45 * buz hopes the cheap ram he just ordered will work in his thinkpad May 30 09:27:49 otherwise that will have been expensive ;) May 30 09:28:15 s0 dimm arent even useful as paper weights ;) May 30 09:28:17 maybe they can have open satellite phones May 30 09:28:19 that'd be cool May 30 09:28:39 also, expensive May 30 09:28:45 would require an open satellite, no? May 30 09:29:00 i dont want sat phone May 30 09:29:12 mostly dont work in buildings, are heavy and suck battery May 30 09:29:22 besides the ping is rather awful May 30 09:29:50 yah, a sat phone would be nice if travelling in backward places like antarctica, African jungles or the rural US May 30 09:30:06 but not really a generic phone :] May 30 09:30:15 just couldnt resist the pun against the us hehehe May 30 09:30:34 correct May 30 09:30:36 any developping country i've been has had perfect gsm coverage May 30 09:30:40 only the us cant seem to get that May 30 09:30:57 US does not have faith in evolution so they will stay with cdma forever May 30 09:31:03 buz: look at the population distribution in the united states, and the raw amount of land that needs to be covered May 30 09:31:09 hell, the US doesn't even have proper metric coverage! May 30 09:31:18 hrw: faith in evolution - now there's a funny set of words May 30 09:31:34 Kraln: my english is far from perfect May 30 09:31:39 I don't know why this is turning into a "lets bash the US", but let me remind you of this May 30 09:31:54 switzerland may have much higher population density, but we still have a lot of mountains where you usually need tons of antenna May 30 09:31:57 we can still get it done May 30 09:32:53 if it wasn't for the US, most of you would be speaking German. I don't agree with our current administration, or really any of the whackos in this country who are too far right or left to make sense, but, to write off 300million people as ignorant, redneck, closeted, jingoistic nationalistic idiots isn't fair. May 30 09:32:54 besides, population density can be a DISadvantage for mobile phones, see hongkong May 30 09:33:06 i AM speaking german May 30 09:33:09 :D May 30 09:33:24 Kraln: This isn't #politics keep it out. May 30 09:33:33 Ich, on the other hand, bin Auslander und spreche nicht gut Deutsch. May 30 09:33:33 hads: they started it. :| May 30 09:33:39 no we didnt May 30 09:33:50 [5:30] just couldnt resist the pun against the us hehehe May 30 09:33:52 actually we didn't talk politics, but I admit to jabbing fun at the US May 30 09:33:59 mjr made a statement of fact May 30 09:34:05 Kraln: oh dear, that's a rather wrong view of WW2 May 30 09:34:07 nobody really knows what would have happened without the us in ww2 May 30 09:34:28 Kraln: you realise if anything it was the USSR that contributed more to the downfall of the 3rd reich? May 30 09:34:49 ewon: yeah. it's about as wrong a view of ww2 as most of the people cracking jokes at the us May 30 09:34:51 without the mssive losses encurred on the eastern front, the D-Day landings never would have been possible. May 30 09:35:10 Maybe everyone should stop, then only talk when they have something related to openmoko. May 30 09:35:12 yeah, by the time the us entered europe, germany mostly HAD lost the war already May 30 09:35:13 I am well aware the importance of stalingrad May 30 09:35:35 (incidentally, I only write off most, but by no means all, of the US citizens as ignorant, redneck, closeted, jingoistic nationalistic idiots) May 30 09:35:36 buz: weren't you at what the hack, btw? May 30 09:35:41 no May 30 09:35:50 mjr: amen to that May 30 09:35:53 ewon: If it were not for the endless supply of material ( tanks, arms planes etc ) and troops provides by the USA and, to a lesser part GB, the Nazis would probably not have lost May 30 09:36:04 Then I'm mixing you up with someone else. Just thought I recognized the nick... May 30 09:36:46 I'm not getting into this on #openmoko :) May 30 09:37:05 agreed ;) May 30 09:37:16 I just find the "if it wasn't for the us you'd all be speaking german" rhetoric a bit old :) May 30 09:37:26 *yawn* May 30 09:37:31 (also let it be said that I don't have a too high opinion of the average citizen of _any_ country, however there are some that are more generally rabid than others, like Iran and the US) May 30 09:37:40 * ozamosi is from sweden - the country that provided an endless supply of materal to germany May 30 09:37:45 SHUT UP May 30 09:37:51 If it wasn't for the UK, you'd all be speaking French. May 30 09:37:54 * mjr shuts up :] May 30 09:37:56 let's face it, if it wasn't for alcohol you'd all be speaking Irish May 30 09:38:04 ewon: amen May 30 09:38:22 * CM looks at gsm coverage in countries with < 20ppl/sq km May 30 09:38:25 I thought it would _have_ to be for alcohol if we'd all speak Irish? May 30 09:38:58 alcohol was invented to stop the Irish taking over the world. fact. May 30 09:39:03 oh yes, that way May 30 09:39:48 ewon: i thought that specifically applied to whiskey May 30 09:39:57 just think what would happen to the world if vodka didnt exist May 30 09:40:45 Russia would have taken over the world/. May 30 09:40:49 russia would rule May 30 09:40:53 exactly May 30 09:40:56 Я могу есть стекло, оно мне не вредит. May 30 09:41:21 in normal fonts? May 30 09:41:28 Kraln: I see your problem, there's not much GSM at all in the US: http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map_gbce.pl?x=0&y=0&z=0&cc=us&net=00&opts=0 May 30 09:41:39 "I can eat glass, it does not hurt me" in Russian May 30 09:41:45 was the first thing I could find ;) May 30 09:42:14 I can read russian but lack cyrylic keyboard mapping May 30 09:42:18 so I'm moving to Los Angeles from Ireland in August. I presume they don't use GSM over there? May 30 09:42:25 Kraln: Compare to Sweden, about the same population density, just 20 times smaller: http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map_gbce.pl?x=0&y=0&z=0&cc=se&net=00&opts=0 May 30 09:42:50 ewon, judging from that map, there is coverage in LA, but not very far out in all directions at least May 30 09:42:53 norway seems weird May 30 09:43:03 plus there seems to be islands of non-coverage May 30 09:43:04 * SpeedEvil points mjr to the universal phrasebook site - www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/hovercraft.htm May 30 09:43:34 SpeedEvil, my nipples explode with delight! May 30 09:43:45 the swiss german one is all wrong May 30 09:43:50 so is there a cell technology available that will give me coverage throughout CA at least? May 30 09:43:54 then again there is no agreed grammatics for that either May 30 09:44:04 ewon: you'll probably do alright with gsm May 30 09:44:07 ewon: california? May 30 09:44:11 koen: yeah May 30 09:44:20 ewon: I suspect there is no such technology May 30 09:44:25 crap May 30 09:44:54 CA has the crappiest coverage I have ever seen in the world May 30 09:45:08 overlay that map with population May 30 09:45:12 if I get stuck out in death valley I want to *know* I can ring for help May 30 09:45:13 there's coverage everywhere there is people. May 30 09:45:25 ewon: death valley is AZ, right? May 30 09:45:49 ewon, there was the sat phone suggestion :] May 30 09:46:03 is iridium still working? May 30 09:46:09 or did they shut that down May 30 09:46:09 koen: CA/AZ, iirc May 30 09:46:22 iridium is still operational, AFAIR, but it has changed hands May 30 09:46:30 last time I was there I entered the AZ part :) May 30 09:46:43 that was a long time ago, though May 30 09:47:07 mhh thuraya phones look like you could actually carry them May 30 09:52:13 does funambol provide linux pim interfaces for their syncml stack? May 30 09:52:18 or am i at mercy of opensync? May 30 09:52:32 hi May 30 10:02:40 openmoko: 03thomas * r2102 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-tool-box.c): May 30 10:02:40 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-tool-box.c: (cb_configure): Remove use of May 30 10:02:40 openmoko: moko_application_get_style_pixmap_dir May 30 10:05:12 gsm has better competition build in it than cdma (easier to change provider): maybe that is reason for better coverage in Finland (for example) compared to USA May 30 10:05:26 Ireland's GSM is pretty much 100% May 30 10:05:36 it's been at least year since I last had no signal May 30 10:24:48 You'll still get no signal generally if you wander into valleys with no people. May 30 10:31:34 counter May 30 10:31:34 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 30%) P1: a day 00:44:11 (1.031 +-1.0 days) (1334;219) May 30 10:34:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] May 30 10:44:22 . May 30 11:59:58 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 25%) May 30 11:59:59 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 25%) May 30 12:00:00 hmm, microsoft got to multitouch interface too now... May 30 12:00:04 counter May 30 12:00:04 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 25%) P1: 23:59:56 (1.000 +-1.0 days) (1335;219) May 30 12:00:15 aloril: aaah, noooo, don't get pessimistic now :( May 30 12:00:34 25% is just too little May 30 12:00:41 just 2 days remaining without any beep May 30 12:01:10 yeh... end of the month or announcement... hope the latter wil come first May 30 12:03:29 * CM thinks the tubes might be clogged over in .tw May 30 12:03:51 assuming production happens today, then they probably still need day or few before actual orders? May 30 12:04:25 so.. no beep and 2 days doesn't look very promising for "you can order now and they will be shipped" May 30 12:04:27 aloril: production of some phones was done iirc. now they need testing before shipment May 30 12:04:52 hrw: it was? cool! May 30 12:05:02 hrw: do you know when? May 30 12:05:03 I think that when FIC will have first tested phones they will announce orders May 30 12:05:19 do you know when phones were done? May 30 12:06:26 aloril: I do not know do I am allowed to tell that so I will not. May 30 12:06:37 (hrw: you are not referring to those 200 phones at April?) May 30 12:06:46 ah, ok May 30 12:07:01 rather now May 30 12:07:03 rather not May 30 12:08:09 * Herod2k saluta tutti May 30 12:08:17 good day May 30 12:08:24 hrw: anyway, thanks for unofficial beep! May 30 12:10:35 * LuitvD still hopes sean will thank us for waiting patiently by releasing 2 devices at once... May 30 12:10:51 (but that's just my wild guess/desperate excuse) May 30 12:11:12 i'm not that optimistic. i'm thinking they've had problems with production of P1 May 30 12:11:21 or production/testing May 30 12:11:34 yeah, most likely May 30 12:11:43 and that they've been occupied with planning the wifi model May 30 12:12:04 and the HXD May 30 12:12:38 they've written hardware support patches already... if they'd wanted to have the neo on sale quickly, they wouldn't have done that... May 30 12:12:43 or rather getting proper amount of parts May 30 12:13:19 mickeyl said yesterday "afaik it looks like something like 1000 should be finished in a couple of days"; I just hope he knows, and that actual shipping is not too far away May 30 12:13:30 if only sean didn't decide not to tell anything untill there is a device, then we would now have known what's happening May 30 12:14:08 I wonder who's working on the openmoko.com site... the webshop... May 30 12:16:08 mjr: ah, I see it now May 30 12:17:45 no doubt 1000 phones will be sold out May 30 12:26:02 hello to all May 30 12:33:34 counter May 30 12:33:34 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 25%) P1: 23:43:11 (0.988 +-1.0 days) (1336;219) May 30 12:33:57 Elrond: soon going to adjust that May 30 12:35:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:HXD8]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] May 30 12:37:06 aloril - Yeah. Is there any news from FIC yet? May 30 12:38:27 Elrond: 17 hours ago: pjz: i have been a bit out of the loop... tomorrow seems unlikely, however afaik it looks like something like 1000 should be finished in a couple of days May 30 12:38:27 2007-05-29 22:29:36 May 30 12:39:06 and also some minutes ago: aloril: production of some phones was done iirc. now they need testing before shipment May 30 12:39:55 Hmm, I wonder, where hrw got his info from. :-) May 30 12:40:05 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) May 30 12:40:05 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) May 30 12:40:14 Anyway, looks like they're working, which is good. :-) May 30 12:40:18 counter May 30 12:40:18 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 23:39:49 (0.986 +-1.0 days) (1337;219) May 30 12:40:36 uups May 30 12:40:46 *G* May 30 12:41:01 counter May 30 12:41:01 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 23:39:28 (2.986 +-3.0 days) (1338;218) May 30 12:41:08 better now ;-) May 30 12:42:34 (moved 4 days and increased from 25% to 60%) May 30 12:43:16 Hehe.. The ever growing counter :) May 30 12:49:26 CM: hopefully next time to other direction ;-) May 30 12:49:31 CM: hey it's supremely accurate*! May 30 12:49:40 ... *within the error bars May 30 12:50:18 We all love the counter :D May 30 12:51:43 optimistic in me says 4 days is generous, but .. hopefully it is ;-) May 30 12:54:00 s/4/6/ May 30 12:54:01 aloril meant: optimistic in me says 6 days is generous, but .. hopefully it is ;-) May 30 12:54:16 (current counter had still 2 days left) May 30 13:29:40 counter May 30 13:29:53 !counter May 30 13:31:13 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 23:14:26 (2.968 +-3.0 days) (1339;219) May 30 13:31:25 a bit delay, was testing addition: May 30 13:31:46 (script) openmoko-kernel: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: DRM in openmoko kernel May 30 13:31:58 (script) openmoko-apps: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Music Player - UI question and 3 other mails May 30 13:32:21 (added "monitor sean" in every list ;-) May 30 13:32:56 apps list sean mails are rather old though May 30 13:53:46 counter May 30 13:53:46 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 23:03:05 (2.960 +-3.0 days) (1340;219) May 30 13:54:16 * SpeedEvil wonders why it moved. May 30 13:54:51 SpeedEvil: scroll a bit up (May sounded unlikely, but +2 days did sound likely) May 30 13:55:05 then just 2 extra days of uncertainty ;-) May 30 13:56:02 SpeedEvil: ah, you weren't here (will /msg) May 30 13:56:53 batti112: May 30 13:56:54 counter May 30 13:56:54 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 23:01:31 (2.959 +-3.0 days) (1341;219) May 30 13:57:16 Whee! May 30 13:57:25 * SpeedEvil finishes reading the sentance. May 30 14:07:59 hi May 30 14:36:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] May 30 14:44:17 aloril: counter May 30 14:44:17 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 22:37:49 (2.943 +-2.9 days) (1342;219) May 30 14:50:22 openmoko: 03mickey * r2103 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (linux-gta01.inc linux-gta01_2.6.21.3.bb): oe/linux: autoload audio and hci_usb modules on 2.6.21.3 May 30 15:07:28 counter May 30 15:07:29 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 22:26:14 (2.935 +-2.9 days) (1343;219) May 30 15:10:35 Shoragan: ping May 30 15:10:59 pong May 30 15:11:40 heya May 30 15:11:55 Shoragan: what's your impression of the sanyo z5 after using it for some months? May 30 15:11:59 Shoragan: still satisfied? May 30 15:12:03 yes :) May 30 15:12:23 excellent May 30 15:12:26 * mickeyl adds it to the wishlist May 30 15:12:31 although there seems to be a slight blue spot in the lower right corner May 30 15:12:47 most z5 have it May 30 15:13:04 but it is only noticeable in very dark scenes May 30 15:13:27 and i've become used to it, so i don't even notice it then May 30 15:14:13 and the picture is even better when using HDMI May 30 15:15:01 cool. 2*hdmi, one vga should be sufficient May 30 15:15:18 mickeyl: seeking for new laptop? May 30 15:15:35 no, projector :) May 30 15:15:39 ah May 30 15:16:20 we've just used it to trace a linedrawing on a wall :) May 30 15:17:13 we have a large plasms tv in work May 30 15:17:24 it has the title screen of guitar hero burned into it May 30 15:18:22 i need something for my new office to display ideas and stuff or to present slides in meetings May 30 15:18:50 i don't want another panel May 30 15:19:01 so most likely the Z5 May 30 15:19:01 meetings... I need to post about oedem May 30 15:19:11 hrw: yay! we need another meeting May 30 15:19:19 shortly after guadec? May 30 15:19:24 mickeyl: no way May 30 15:19:28 heh May 30 15:19:30 my wedding at 14 August May 30 15:19:33 ah, right May 30 15:19:36 meckeyl: use something like this... http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html May 30 15:19:39 honeymoon right after? May 30 15:19:49 mickeyl: probably. May 30 15:19:53 mickeyl: and then are MMD May 30 15:20:31 Shoragan: ya, that's really cool. anything known about the projected price? May 30 15:20:44 hrw: hmm, ya. summer looks really busy. might be autumn then May 30 15:20:46 5-10k$ May 30 15:20:53 not that bad May 30 15:32:00 counter? May 30 15:32:00 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 22:13:58 (2.926 +-2.9 days) (1344;219) May 30 16:18:24 openmoko: 03thomas * r2104 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): May 30 16:18:24 openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_infoline_new), May 30 16:18:24 openmoko: (today_launcher_button_new), (today_setup_events_area), May 30 16:18:24 openmoko: (create_ui): Use correct icons in Missed Calls/Unread Messages lines May 30 16:35:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 30 16:47:19 will someone with a p0/p1-device be at the GPN in Karlsruhe this weekend? May 30 16:59:38 counter May 30 16:59:39 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 21:30:09 (2.896 +-2.9 days) (1345;219) May 30 17:02:06 Gosh I hope we get it! May 30 17:07:06 "Hope is tomorrow's veneer over today's disappointment" (~Evan Esar) May 30 17:07:42 Sure be nice to see it start shipping soon. May 30 17:09:55 mwester, I've been feeling that way for months, as have the rest of us I'm sure. (-: May 30 17:12:25 jeeeez May 30 17:12:31 my cpu cooks at 102C May 30 17:12:35 that cant be good May 30 17:14:40 * SpeedEvil passes buz an egg. May 30 17:14:51 i wonder why the thing didnt crash May 30 17:57:12 Any openmoko news in the last three weeks, has anything clever happened? May 30 18:22:45 not really May 30 18:23:06 How exciting :) May 30 18:23:08 still not shipping hardware, though it does seem some progress is being made May 30 18:23:25 counter May 30 18:23:25 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 20:48:16 (2.867 +-2.9 days) (1346;219) May 30 18:23:45 ...and 2 days ago it say '2 days from now' May 30 18:24:03 GaKKGaKk: see above link May 30 18:24:28 pjz: the counter always updates like that ;)I May 30 18:24:31 the last real statements we have are 'this month', by sean, a few weeks ago May 30 18:24:50 and then mickeyl's offhand comment that he thought a run of 1k or so had been made and were going through testing May 30 18:25:07 oh i missed that May 30 18:25:12 would be nice if true May 30 18:25:21 so there's no real data to base any kind of prediction on May 30 18:25:50 unless you believe 'this month', which ends tomorrow. May 30 18:26:18 I was lookin for some kind of "last news" page on the wiki, seems that is as close as I get :) May 30 18:27:20 pjz: yeah, but it sounds like within 2-6 days is quite possible May 30 18:27:59 yeah but we thought that a few times ;) May 30 18:28:18 i care for the release more because of the promised details about future hardware May 30 18:28:19 aloril2: and it's sounded like that for what? 6 months now? May 30 18:28:28 4 or os May 30 18:29:04 buz: yeah, but this is first time with supposedly already produced units May 30 18:29:11 point May 30 18:29:22 and with a small but existing successful run May 30 18:29:33 which supposedly work quite wlel May 30 18:30:35 a p2 phone with gpu, s3c244X and wifi would be a killer indeed May 30 18:31:42 KaGGKaGg: note that above link to wiki != official wiki (just in case you missed it) May 30 18:35:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 30 18:37:35 buz: especially when that GPU can do OpenGL|ES May 30 18:37:59 anything else would be kinda pointless May 30 18:38:45 well, anything external is better then just the framebuffer May 30 18:38:51 thing i wonder about is if using imx31 wouldnt be easier at that point May 30 18:39:34 oh well... maybe something for the next device isn't it? May 30 18:39:48 well we thought that about gpu too May 30 18:39:49 * mjr mostly cares about the GPU in the potential power savings department May 30 18:39:57 pjz: counter has been this low only somewhat after 2007-05-10 and in last few days ;-) May 30 18:40:00 the neo with a camera (with the possible new cpu) and usb 2.0 would be kickass.... i'm not sure whether i'll buy the neo or wait to the next phone :/ May 30 18:40:23 sept version very nearly sure wont have a cam May 30 18:40:31 * mjr will likely get a p1 ASAP if only to not have to wait without one for the p2 delays ;/ May 30 18:40:49 mjr: that has crossed my mind too ;) May 30 18:40:51 yeah, a camera would require case mods, which are pretty much out May 30 18:41:03 (as Sean said sometime) May 30 18:41:12 i know May 30 18:41:15 well considering how much money is being dumped into the project righ tnow case mods would likely not be that much more May 30 18:41:40 and it WOULD make sense to have a camera version May 30 18:41:43 actually, I like it not having a phone I guess... May 30 18:41:44 but with the new cpu supporting up to 5 mpixel cameras, this would be sweet :) May 30 18:41:56 and not totally ridiculous case May 30 18:42:12 cause frankly, even some die hard linux users i know figured they wouldnt be caught dead with that case May 30 18:42:32 it's a bit thick May 30 18:42:36 bah, it's okay May 30 18:42:41 but besides that i kinda like it May 30 18:42:42 the hole is damn well ridiculous May 30 18:42:49 true May 30 18:42:57 that would have been perfectly enough space for a decent cam May 30 18:43:28 ms can't do plug and play for their live May 30 19:00:30 counter May 30 19:00:30 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 20:29:43 (2.854 +-2.9 days) (1347;220) May 30 19:00:57 oh noes, time is going in reverse. May 30 19:02:17 tholin: yes, but probability got up... May 30 19:14:55 tholin: probability has increased though May 30 19:15:51 heh, but is the probability accurate, or just another malicious metric :-) May 30 19:16:13 it's <------------------> this accurate May 30 19:17:10 its guess ;-) May 30 19:17:44 tholin: anyway, see link for basis for changes May 30 19:24:27 Stephmw: That is fairly accurate, compared to the length of a comma. May 30 19:43:30 dasher is amazing, like a game May 30 19:43:37 not sure i could type fast on it though May 30 19:53:55 where did this rumour come from? http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter#Some_phones_produced.3F_2007-05-30 May 30 19:56:16 this channel, about 12 hours ago May 30 19:56:25 maybe more like 18hrs May 30 19:58:34 MacNorthXP: thanks May 30 19:58:43 i like this idea: http://www.microvision.com/proj.html May 30 19:58:59 counter May 30 19:58:59 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 20:00:29 (2.834 +-2.8 days) (1348;220) May 30 21:31:06 is it possible that openmoko does not have pangocairo support? May 30 21:31:57 hm, any mailing list moderators around? May 30 21:32:10 Philippe: openmoko use gtk 2.6 not 2.10 May 30 21:32:40 cairo is gtk 2.10 May 30 21:33:04 hrw: hmm, that is what I thought... explains why librsvg does not build May 30 21:33:21 hrw: thanks for confirming my idea. May 30 21:33:25 np May 30 21:44:42 cu May 30 21:47:00 * CM closes his eyes May 30 21:52:18 Hmm... openmoko hasn't updated to a cairo-using GTK+ yet? We should really fix that. May 30 22:01:11 night. May 30 22:05:43 re May 30 22:07:56 openmoko: 03laforge * r2105 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/ (14 files in 2 dirs): remove outdated, obsolete qt2410 uboot recipe plus associated old uboot files May 30 22:08:10 openmoko: 03laforge * r2106 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: re-enable automatic build of qt2410 u-boot images May 30 22:24:46 openmoko: 03laforge * r2107 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-qt2410.patch: * fix qt2410 build of udfu image (uses 0x511d product id) May 30 22:27:53 Evening people. May 30 22:29:20 somebody in berlin? linuxtag? May 30 22:30:35 Not me. May 30 22:35:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[USB_Product_IDs]] [[Optical_Character_Recognition]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] May 30 22:42:45 well, physics exam tomorrow, so I'm off to sleep May 30 22:45:46 Good luck! May 30 23:05:09 * sparq wanders back into #openmoko May 30 23:05:52 I guess since people aren't bouncing off the walls, there hasn't been much news May 30 23:07:31 sparq - Good guess. May 30 23:09:18 sigh. May 30 23:13:35 Note to self: When I have billions of dollars someday, build a manufacturing facility for open-source hardware projects in an easily-visited part of the world. May 30 23:13:59 BTW, on the buildhost, what's the difference between the "uImage-2.6.21.3-moko10-r0_0_2079_0-fic-gta01.bin" and the "uImage-2.6-moko10-r0_0_2079_0-fic-gta01.bin" images? May 30 23:14:23 if they're the same size it's probably a symlink May 30 23:16:02 Well, some 2.6-* exist, for thiwh which no 2.6.* exists and vice versa. May 30 23:16:15 s/thiwh/which May 30 23:19:40 happycube - Well, they're different. May 30 23:31:34 i think 2.6 may be 2.6.21.1 which is the default at the moment May 30 23:32:31 Ahh. May 30 23:34:40 Good night. :-) May 30 23:43:12 does someone know what driver we're using for the bluetooth? May 30 23:43:31 the generic USB dongle driver has the IDs of this particular dongle in its blacklist May 30 23:43:46 hci_usb May 30 23:44:07 from the source it appears that hci_usb would reject this particular dongle May 30 23:44:14 did they fix the manufacturer ID in v4? May 30 23:45:12 the IDs are 0a12:0001, in v4, although.. hmm.. they might have changed the driver, i'm gonna look it up in some more current patches May 30 23:45:35 "Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps late May 30 23:45:37 May." May 30 23:45:41 says the topic. May 30 23:45:53 does that mean tomorrow? May 30 23:46:21 it means we may be lucky to get a news update May 30 23:48:48 KragenSitaker: The wiki timelines are based on mainly random comments on blogs or IRC May 30 23:48:52 they are not binding May 31 00:40:43 SpeedEvil: that's in the topic May 31 00:40:48 not the wiki May 31 00:41:08 and i don't care if it's binding or not --- i'm not looking to sue somebody. i just want to know when i can get hold of a phone ;) May 31 00:44:28 oh, suing is fun May 31 01:10:23 balrog-kun: programming is funner May 31 02:35:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Look_%26_Feel]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Date_%26_Time_Preview]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Look_%26_Feel]] [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Main_Page/ru]] **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 31 02:59:56 2007