**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 31 02:59:56 2007
May 31 03:13:38 <bmidgley> how can i force a recalibration
May 31 03:13:45 <bmidgley> i mean other than reflashing the rootfs
May 31 03:15:40 <bmidgley> (screensaver turned on while it was waiting for me to calibrate, really big mess)
May 31 03:54:59 <aloril> bmidgley: <XorA>      rm /etc/pontercal
May 31 04:36:02 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] [[Main_Page/ru]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Date_%26_Time_Preview]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Look_%26_Feel]]
May 31 04:43:05 <peepsalot> timer
May 31 04:45:48 <RbdPngn> counter
May 31 04:45:48 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 15:37:04 (2.651 +-2.7 days) (1349;221)
May 31 05:15:03 <aloril> bmidgley: <XorA>      rm /etc/pontercal
May 31 05:15:29 <aloril> (in case you missed it in split)
May 31 06:14:44 <Vitaly> counter
May 31 06:14:44 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 14:52:36 (2.620 +-2.6 days) (1350;221)
May 31 06:15:47 <aloril> 1 day and 3 hours and May is over everywhere on Earth
May 31 06:16:30 <CM> Like almost all companies, FIC is handling this wrong
May 31 06:16:50 <CM> If you say you're going to make a statement, you better do it too
May 31 06:17:11 <CM> Even if it's just "We're having problems and there will be a delay"
May 31 06:17:20 <aloril> its probably those few people that get angry that make Sean 'scared' to talk
May 31 06:17:44 <CM> Well, they'll get angry no matter what.
May 31 06:18:09 <CM> I'm sure everyone is working as hard as they can over there, but you can't make the phones without the screens for example
May 31 06:18:17 <aloril> true, but then they get kind of 'lighting rod' from that mail :-(
May 31 06:18:41 <CM> Sure, he should just end it with "Flame on.." ;)
May 31 06:18:47 <aloril> hehe
May 31 06:19:35 <pjz> what mail?
May 31 06:19:44 <aloril> it does sound like they are close now though if they have already produced some 1000 units (would be nice to hear confirmation, etc.. about this)
May 31 06:20:23 <aloril> pjz: nothing lately, just few weeks ago there was at least one pretty flaming public response
May 31 06:20:45 <pjz> ah
May 31 06:20:57 <aloril> most were understanding though which is good
May 31 06:21:09 <pjz> well, on one hand, I'm sure Sean etc are busy and updating the world isn't highest priority
May 31 06:21:24 <pjz> OTOH, I know how the guy feels, and updating us should perhaps be higher prio
May 31 06:21:49 <pjz> OTGH, less buzz if you meet your deadlines :)
May 31 06:22:04 <aloril> well.. he has time to answer occasionally, so *short* blurb like "we have produced 1000 units and are testing" should not take long ;-)
May 31 06:22:28 <aloril> there is no need to say any deadlines
May 31 06:30:17 <Hopscotch> good morning
May 31 06:33:17 <webjames> morning
May 31 07:07:28 <TRIsoft> morning
May 31 07:09:05 <webjames> i see openmoko has a new 'today' screen
May 31 07:14:51 <sannes> how so?
May 31 07:33:49 <Stephmw> mornin'
May 31 08:02:31 <Fletch_work> counter
May 31 08:02:32 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 13:58:42 (2.582 +-2.6 days) (1351;221)
May 31 08:21:11 <xkr47> heh in 2 hours the counter decreased one hour
May 31 08:21:35 <aloril> 1 hour closer and 1 hour less uncertainty
May 31 08:21:37 <Stephmw> must be a decay curve
May 31 08:45:43 <hrw> morning
May 31 09:27:44 <LuitvD> http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070530_0000350082
May 31 09:27:47 <LuitvD> look at that
May 31 09:28:03 <hrw> what inside?
May 31 09:28:16 <LuitvD> 4GB + 256MB of NAND Flash and 128MB of RAM, in one chip
May 31 09:28:31 <hrw> nice
May 31 09:28:51 <buz> must have
May 31 09:29:17 <buz> but please dont remove some sort of sd slot
May 31 09:29:47 <LuitvD> buz: why would you ? :P
May 31 09:29:58 <buz> in neo i mean
May 31 09:30:18 <LuitvD> buz: the number of connections to that chip are the same as the number of connections to 3 seperate chips
May 31 09:30:33 <LuitvD> and you can ditch the RAM and NAND that's in the neo right now...
May 31 09:30:37 <buz> but less space
May 31 09:30:42 <LuitvD> indeed
May 31 09:31:05 <LuitvD> anyhow, it's probably something for a next-gen device
May 31 09:31:15 * LuitvD is gone for breakfast
May 31 10:19:58 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 571 has been created by pavel@ucw.cz
May 31 10:19:59 <cdbot2> * * Fonts in menus / home screen / terminal emulator are too
May 31 10:20:00 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571
May 31 10:20:08 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 572 has been created by pavel@ucw.cz
May 31 10:20:10 <cdbot2> * * Screensaver needs to ignore first click, and probably
May 31 10:20:12 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=572
May 31 10:20:20 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 573 has been created by pavel@ucw.cz
May 31 10:20:22 <cdbot2> * * Screen flickers
May 31 10:20:24 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=573
May 31 10:20:32 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 574 has been created by mickey@vanille-media.de
May 31 10:20:34 <cdbot2> * * timing issues / buffer parsing issues in gsmd
May 31 10:20:36 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574
May 31 10:20:44 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 575 has been created by stefan@openmoko.org
May 31 10:20:46 <cdbot2> * * mainmenu does not handle startup-notification
May 31 10:20:48 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=575
May 31 10:20:55 <cdbot2> * * Flood control triggered, clearing queue...
May 31 10:21:00 <cdbot2> * * [109] pending messages removed.
May 31 10:21:04 <so_solid_moo> hehe
May 31 10:21:12 <CoreDump|home> =)
May 31 10:24:28 <xkr47> :)
May 31 10:24:33 <Stephmw> ouch
May 31 10:24:34 <Rakshasa> Bogflood O.o
May 31 10:24:40 <Rakshasa> urgh
May 31 10:24:50 <Rakshasa> bugflood, I mean.
May 31 10:25:07 <cheesy> counter
May 31 10:25:08 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 12:47:24 (2.533 +-2.5 days) (1352;221)
May 31 10:25:09 <xkr47> so there were 36 more bugs in the queue :)
May 31 10:25:17 <zecke> CoreDump|home: that is a lame bot
May 31 10:25:34 <xkr47> again, two hours later the time has decreased 1 hour :)
May 31 10:25:44 <CoreDump|home> right, CIA would have flooded the 109 messages into the channel =)
May 31 10:26:49 <hads> I'd say it's a non-lame bot.
May 31 10:27:29 <guaqua>   i say there's a question going on about the lameness of the bot
May 31 10:29:48 <cheesy> we should make a poll bot to see what ppl think about the lameness of the bot
May 31 10:30:44 <CoreDump|home> bots have feelings too :\
May 31 10:35:12 * xkr47 comforts cdbot2
May 31 10:36:40 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2108 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-pcf50606.patch hxd8-core.patch): 
May 31 10:36:40 <CIA-23> openmoko: * pcf50606: add initial backlight brightness to platform_data
May 31 10:36:40 <CIA-23> openmoko: * hxd8: set initial pcf50606 backlight brightness (Matt Hsu)
May 31 10:39:14 <Stephmw> ~botsnack
May 31 10:39:15 <apt> Stephmw: :)
May 31 10:39:27 <aloril> in case you didn't see it: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter#SMedia_Glamo3362_GPU_is_being_evaluated.2C_not_yet_selected__2007-05-31
May 31 10:39:38 <SpeedEvil> Ah.
May 31 10:40:50 * SpeedEvil wants a way to submit a pound to FIC, to pay his wages for .1s that he's an employee, so they can legitimately mail me a datasheet.
May 31 10:41:33 <aloril> hehe
May 31 10:43:05 <Stephmw> hahaha
May 31 10:43:54 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: just invoice them for your time supporting their product on here, equating $0.02
May 31 10:44:35 <Stephmw> "International Relay Chat support services, 200hrs, $0.02"
May 31 10:44:41 <hads> Time rambling?
May 31 10:44:58 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 31 10:45:06 <Stephmw> (and yes I know it's InterNET, not International)
May 31 10:45:18 <SpeedEvil> Don't forget wiki vandalism - $.02
May 31 10:45:39 <Stephmw> easy, you might have to start paying tax
May 31 10:46:58 <ewon> "lambasting the ignorant, 1eur"
May 31 11:00:06 <webjames> last day in may, common!!..
May 31 11:02:06 <hads> You'll live.
May 31 11:04:35 <Richard> Can I order neo1973 phase 1 now?
May 31 11:04:47 <Richard> It said late May.
May 31 11:04:53 <SpeedEvil> It LIED!
May 31 11:04:56 * SpeedEvil stabs it.
May 31 11:05:41 <SpeedEvil> Maybe a week - who knows.
May 31 11:07:02 <SpeedEvil> There are rumors of a run of 1000 being recently completed.
May 31 11:10:44 <aloril> well.. May is still not over ;-)
May 31 11:12:22 <webjames> that is true
May 31 11:13:02 <CM> Hmm.. Maybe asking politely on the mailinglist would work
May 31 11:13:09 <CM> They seem to read it at least
May 31 11:14:27 <webjames> well volunteered
May 31 11:16:57 <hads> Maybe patience would work
May 31 11:18:10 * aloril wouldn't be surprised if next info was "You can order it now from openmoko.com + info about P1"
May 31 11:18:41 <CM> aloril: I think so too.. They're probably close, and want to come with good news :)
May 31 11:18:59 * CM is a true optimist
May 31 11:19:04 <hads> It seems likely.
May 31 11:19:43 <CM> I guess they're afraid of bad publicity on Slashdot and Digg and such if they make an official "Delayed" statement
May 31 11:20:23 <webjames> i recon hads is right
May 31 11:20:45 <aloril> also it might be that they don't yet have P1+ (gta02) details (I suspect this might be keeping core team most busy, at least that is how I read "the coreteam is working on the hardware")
May 31 11:22:12 <aloril> umm.. so 1) P1 not yet ready for ordering (even if they are produced) + 2) above -> want to wait few days so can do both
May 31 11:23:14 <aloril> anyway, last 2 lines are almost pure speculation of course
May 31 11:23:59 <sative> will the neo1973 also support doubill? (means, one SIM - two numbers/PINs)
May 31 11:24:00 <aloril> sative: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 31 11:24:18 <sative> ah =)
May 31 11:24:44 <aloril> CM: yeah, it would suck to be plastered accross /., Digg with delay news and then few days after Ordering page being up
May 31 11:25:25 * aloril hopes /., etc.. is delayed enough so I get to order mine before they sell out, 1000 units is not much
May 31 11:27:23 <xkr47> :)
May 31 11:27:56 <aloril> sure they will be able to produce a lot more in June (hopefully), but I don't want to wait another 2-4 weeks
May 31 11:28:48 <CM> I'm moving this weekend, so I'm not really in a hurry yet. ;)
May 31 11:51:59 <sixfeet> tach alle zsamman
May 31 11:52:15 <sixfeet> counter
May 31 11:52:15 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 12:03:51 (2.503 +-2.5 days) (1353;221)
May 31 11:52:50 <sixfeet> hmm looked for the phone ... but it isn`t avaliable ?!
May 31 11:53:24 <sixfeet> " P1: 2 days" <-- *fg*
May 31 11:54:02 * ar1 hello to everybody
May 31 11:54:13 <CM> morning ;)
May 31 12:02:30 <fletch> sixfeet: dont count on these 2 days ;)
May 31 12:03:23 <ar1> morning :)
May 31 12:03:25 <sixfeet> gg
May 31 12:04:00 <sixfeet> is there a european shop .. link or so ?
May 31 12:04:12 <fletch> no
May 31 12:04:33 <sixfeet> ;(
May 31 12:04:57 <fletch> u can buy it from openmoko.com when orders r accepted
May 31 12:05:34 <ar1> excuseme, can i pay wiht credit card?
May 31 12:07:01 <fletch> nope, only eggs and apples accepted ;)
May 31 12:07:04 <sixfeet> paypal should work
May 31 12:08:04 <ar1> hehehehe
May 31 12:09:00 <sative> the mailinglistthread doesn't answer to me %)
May 31 12:09:14 <sative> anybody knows, if there is dualsim support?
May 31 12:09:50 <sixfeet> tripplesim *g*
May 31 12:09:58 <sative> mh?
May 31 12:10:16 <sative> one sim, two pins/numbers
May 31 12:10:27 <sative> privat/business
May 31 12:11:39 <sixfeet> ahh ok
May 31 12:11:53 <sixfeet> thought of two cards ;)
May 31 12:12:42 <sative> my provider is vodafone
May 31 12:12:54 <sative> and the feature is mentioned "DouBill"
May 31 12:13:16 <Lorphos> btw one fact mentioned at the LUG BS was that the current hardware short-circuits if there is no SIM card inserted.. scary
May 31 12:13:17 * CM lets the company take the whole bill :P
May 31 12:14:37 <sative> cm me, too. only that it looks well ;)
May 31 12:15:01 <CM> I suspect it's for tax reasons
May 31 12:16:13 <stefan_schmidt> Lorphos: That was for the GTA01bv3 deployed as P0 mobiles. GTA01bv4 deployed as P1 don't has this problem anymore.
May 31 12:16:32 <Lorphos> ah, glad to hear
May 31 12:17:47 * stefan_schmidt goes back to his studies until he heads up to LinuxTag tomorrow.
May 31 12:18:57 <ynezz> Lorphos: how can be prototype/sample's issue scary? ;)
May 31 12:20:08 <ynezz> I think, it's scary when found in P2 or later device...
May 31 12:21:44 <SpeedEvil> The P1 is _meant_ to be stable hardware.
May 31 12:21:49 <SpeedEvil> With no serious bugs.
May 31 12:23:06 <SpeedEvil>  xlock -inroot -mode flame -erasemode no
May 31 12:23:15 <SpeedEvil> _fade
May 31 12:23:16 <SpeedEvil> oops
May 31 12:24:58 <SpeedEvil> The software is assumed to be a bit broken.
May 31 12:25:03 <SpeedEvil> Which is fixable.
May 31 12:33:59 <kiney> counter
May 31 12:33:59 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 11:42:58 (2.488 +-2.5 days) (1354;221)
May 31 12:37:08 <kiney> I heard that Phase 1+ and Phase 2 will be the same hardware, only with different software.
May 31 12:37:11 <kiney> Is that true?
May 31 12:38:59 <guaqua> obviously
May 31 12:39:10 <guaqua> for the second point
May 31 12:39:15 <guaqua> no idea for the first point
May 31 12:40:22 <hrw> same or nearly same
May 31 12:40:50 <kiney> So if I buy P1+ I can update to P2 later?
May 31 12:41:06 <hrw> no idea, rather not
May 31 12:41:22 <hrw> I think that p1+ <> p2 difference will be really minimal
May 31 12:42:01 <guaqua> kiney: the idea of the phone is that you can run _any_ software on it
May 31 12:42:17 <guaqua> so it's not an issue if P2 has different built-in software stack
May 31 12:42:38 <kiney> sounds good
May 31 12:42:56 <aloril> or update to P3 (I guess they will keep updating software after launch ;-)
May 31 12:43:34 <guaqua> i'm going to be running my own guasbetterthanyoursembeddedlinux on my neo anyway :|
May 31 12:43:57 <guaqua> and with a higher version number, it's going to be 2010 when openmoko is stuck at 2007 :>
May 31 12:44:05 <kiney> *lol*
May 31 12:45:56 <ynezz> i'm porting windows ce 6.0 to neo already
May 31 12:46:08 <ynezz> so there will be choice ;p
May 31 12:46:36 <kiney> how can you port windows ce without the source code?
May 31 12:46:40 <xkr47> it's impossible! windows ce supports only proprietary hardware .D
May 31 12:48:22 <rwhitby> maybe he works for M$
May 31 12:48:50 <SpeedEvil> kiney: The point is that OpenMoko is a linux distribution, with the aim of supporting all phones. It just requires drivers for hardware - which are linux kernel drivers generally - and customising for resolution/keys.
May 31 12:49:22 <SpeedEvil> kiney: And that bugs fixed or applications created for any openmoko phone will run on any other.
May 31 12:49:47 <SpeedEvil> Though they may not - but only for similar reasons that you can't run google earth on a PII/300
May 31 12:50:56 <kiney> and P1 and P1+ will be stable hardware?
May 31 12:51:06 <SpeedEvil> The hardware is meant to be stable.
May 31 12:51:09 <SpeedEvil> Bug-free.
May 31 12:51:22 <kiney> ok
May 31 12:51:22 <balrog-kun> all hardware is meant to be stable and none really is
May 31 12:51:26 <SpeedEvil> The software is expected to need updating to get a workable phone.
May 31 12:51:29 <balrog-kun> so that question has no answer
May 31 12:51:50 <balrog-kun> all hardware and software inherently has bugs
May 31 12:51:54 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: But if you sell _Too_ buggy hardware, then the users will simply return them.
May 31 12:52:17 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: if you give a warranty, yea :)
May 31 12:52:41 <SpeedEvil> If the hardware I get is too unstable, I am returning it.
May 31 12:53:10 <SpeedEvil> If there are software workarounds, hardware bugs bother me less.
May 31 12:53:34 <SpeedEvil> But bugs like the P0 ones are not acceptable.
May 31 12:55:09 <balrog-kun> i'm not used to the possibility of returning things
May 31 12:55:21 <balrog-kun> maybe because i never bought new hardware
May 31 12:55:43 <koen> people buy hardware?
May 31 12:55:48 <SpeedEvil> However, from P1 users reports, it sounds mostly fine.
May 31 12:55:58 <CM> I've never returned anything either, guess I'm just lucky :)
May 31 12:56:06 <kiney> There are P1 users?
May 31 12:56:15 <SpeedEvil> A few.
May 31 12:56:17 <SpeedEvil> 50ish
May 31 12:56:18 <balrog-kun> yes
May 31 12:56:20 <SpeedEvil> maybe more
May 31 12:56:23 <guaqua> as long as gsm, bluetooth and gprs work...i'm happy
May 31 12:56:36 * SpeedEvil adds GPS.
May 31 12:56:47 <guaqua> that's as much as my current phone does, but in a freely customizable form
May 31 12:56:47 <CM> And they seem to work
May 31 12:57:06 <SpeedEvil> guaqua: the software is almost certainly not as good - in general yet.
May 31 12:57:07 <balrog-kun> guaqua: that means pretty much "as long as everything works"
May 31 12:57:17 <CM> Btw, have anyone tried gprs on a P1?
May 31 12:57:24 <SpeedEvil> guaqua: But you can run xterm at 80x25 if you feel like it.
May 31 12:57:31 <sative> cm  its not really for tax reasons. i can also use my 'businesspart' for privat calls. but on the weekend, i can 'switch the business off' =)
May 31 12:57:35 <balrog-kun> because to make use of any of these you need working LCD, charging, suspend/resume and averything is pulled into this sentence
May 31 12:57:58 <CM> sative: Is it the same number or two different ones?
May 31 12:58:20 <SpeedEvil> sative: There is the possibility to do PBX type things on the phone.
May 31 12:59:04 <SpeedEvil> If number in group X, or number called is Y, and time is outside period Z, play 'not accepting call' message
May 31 12:59:41 <guaqua> SpeedEvil, balrog-kun: should have added the word hardware there. for software - i'm expecting the community to pick up the stuff they don't see going the right way
May 31 12:59:53 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
May 31 13:00:02 <guaqua> i.e. might duplicate the work fic and the core team hasn't done right and do it better
May 31 13:00:25 <guaqua> basically counting on the critical mass to get the development going at the right pace
May 31 13:00:26 <sative> two different ones. if i logged into "business", i get calls from both numbers. when im logged privat, im only receiving privatcalls.
May 31 13:00:44 <SpeedEvil> There needs to be a proper 'projects people are working on' page
May 31 13:01:05 <guaqua> projects.openmoko.org isn't sufficient...it's too rigid
May 31 13:01:11 <SpeedEvil> To avoid duplication.
May 31 13:01:12 <jsheldon> will openmoko's packages always be in the form of <name>_<version>+svnYYYYMMDD-r<revision>?
May 31 13:01:13 <aloril> jsheldon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 31 13:01:18 <sative> speedevil  nice. like asterisk running on it? 
May 31 13:01:21 <SpeedEvil> I mean maybe a tag on the application page on the wiki
May 31 13:01:31 <SpeedEvil> sative: full asterisk may or may not be overkill.
May 31 13:01:38 <sative> ok =)
May 31 13:01:51 <sative> but pbxappl
May 31 13:01:59 <SpeedEvil> application:music_player has a 'implementors' tag
May 31 13:02:06 <SpeedEvil> for example
May 31 13:02:29 <SpeedEvil> Which links to application:music_player:implementation
May 31 13:02:54 <balrog-kun> guaqua: you still need all the other hardware working to make any use of the GSM/GPS
May 31 13:03:00 <sative> speedevil  do you know, if there is dualsim support?
May 31 13:03:19 <sative> one sim, two numbers
May 31 13:03:28 <SpeedEvil> Alas, no. I _think_ so - as I understand it, this is simply a network feature.
May 31 13:04:23 <sative> hmm
May 31 13:04:35 <SpeedEvil> And the :implementation page has comments from people working on it.
May 31 13:05:00 <sative> but its a special sim, with two pins
May 31 13:05:06 <sative> PINs
May 31 13:09:03 <sative> you mean a simcard only holds the network and the number(s) and dualfeature come from the network?
May 31 13:12:17 <guaqua> balrog-kun: true. let's just cross our fingers and hope for the perfect hardware :)
May 31 13:17:51 <balrog-kun> i didn't notice any major annoyances with the P1, except the software :p
May 31 13:18:06 <balrog-kun> but i didn't really have time to update the software yet
May 31 13:18:18 <balrog-kun> update/change entirely
May 31 13:21:35 <guaqua> sounds good
May 31 13:22:35 <jsheldon> where does SRCDATE get set for openmoko packages?
May 31 13:23:43 <stefan_schmidt> jsheldon: conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc
May 31 13:24:23 <jsheldon> stefan_schmidt: a-ha!  perfect, thanks very much
May 31 13:24:32 <stefan_schmidt> jsheldon: np
May 31 13:34:21 <ar1> hello.. 
May 31 13:35:02 <ar1> i'm trying to find where i can buy the openmoko...
May 31 13:35:13 <ar1> but i did not
May 31 13:35:39 <Stephmw> because you can't, yet
May 31 13:35:46 <aloril> ar1: subscribe to announce mailing list and wait for announcement about availability at openmoko.com
May 31 13:35:53 <aloril> faq?
May 31 13:35:53 <aloril> See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ
May 31 13:36:19 <ar1> but i want the developers moko ;)
May 31 13:36:26 <Stephmw> aloril: you need to add somenatural language processing to your bot...
May 31 13:37:15 <aloril> ar1: that is Phase 1, same answer, see Neo1973 page linked from FAQ
May 31 13:37:22 <aloril> Stephmw: ;-)
May 31 13:37:50 <ar1> ok...
May 31 13:40:32 <pjz> counter
May 31 13:40:32 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 11:09:42 (2.465 +-2.5 days) (1355;221)
May 31 13:41:48 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2109 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/today-main.c): 
May 31 13:41:48 <CIA-23> openmoko: * configure.ac:
May 31 13:41:48 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_infoline_new): Add startup-notification support
May 31 14:12:33 <CM> LaF0rge: Any slight glimmer of hope for a public announcement soon? :)
May 31 14:12:41 * CM is ever hopeful
May 31 14:13:21 * SpeedEvil strikes up a large spotlight, and highlights LaF0rge. 
May 31 14:13:46 * Stephmw strikes up SpeedEvil
May 31 14:13:51 <Stephmw> woops! sorry :)
May 31 14:14:10 * guaqua gets out his morse key and calls for core team
May 31 14:14:12 * LaF0rge is not in charge of official announcements, particularly not about things that he is not involved in (such as mass production)
May 31 14:14:37 <guaqua> -.-. --- .-. . - . .- --
May 31 14:14:57 <Stephmw> guaqua: from which perspective?
May 31 14:15:17 <guaqua> i guess my motives are the same :)
May 31 14:15:27 <LaF0rge> be assured that we literally spend every second of our awake time in this project. sean is working 18hours per day for many, many months. 
May 31 14:16:28 <CM> LaF0rge: We know and apprecieate it. Don't know how you do it, but thanks :)
May 31 14:17:46 <Stephmw> LaF0rge: are you implying by your use of 'awake time' that there's non-awake time?
May 31 14:19:06 <SpeedEvil> I think the only complaint about delays that anyone has is the delay in confirming delays.
May 31 14:20:09 <LaF0rge> the problem is that whatever we try to do or do, way too many things are out of our hands.
May 31 14:20:30 <guaqua> you have to think from their perspective. telling about the delays would only make it to the press sooner
May 31 14:20:43 <CM> Yes, and better no press than bad press
May 31 14:20:51 <guaqua> that's what i'd say
May 31 14:20:55 <LaF0rge> so rather than to make another anouncement about a date that somebody inside FIC or some upstream vendor fucks up, I would actually prefer not to make any annoumcenents
May 31 14:21:41 <LaF0rge> I don't care that much about bad press.  I care about we not being able to commit to something that later on people outside of our control will inevitably make impossible.  
May 31 14:22:10 <koen> LaF0rge: that's why google never announce their products, they release "when it's ready"
May 31 14:23:01 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03thomas * r2110 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): 
May 31 14:23:01 <CIA-23> openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_update_date), (today_infoline_new),
May 31 14:23:01 <CIA-23> openmoko: (today_launcher_button_new): Run appropriate program when an infoline is
May 31 14:23:01 <CIA-23> openmoko: clicked
May 31 14:27:20 <sannes> hm, neo1973 has been annonced for quite a while, unfortunatly with dates :P Thing is, some updates to what is delaying will atleast makes us feel that it isn't vaporware .. I peronally don't need any conclusive dates, but a little bit of updates would be good ..
May 31 14:27:37 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 31 14:28:11 <LaF0rge> believe me, if there was anything to update, we would update it
May 31 14:28:15 <LaF0rge> there is nothing to update
May 31 14:28:18 <SpeedEvil> A note indicating progress - even if it's backwards progress - is good. 
May 31 14:28:34 <sannes> not even a "it is progressing" ?
May 31 14:28:53 <LaF0rge> there is no noticable progress on GTA01.  it's still being moved into MP
May 31 14:29:25 <LaF0rge> I don't know any more about that than everyone else ;)
May 31 14:30:00 <LaF0rge> I don't know if there are any issues, what those issues might be, when we will have the devices, etc.
May 31 14:30:06 <LaF0rge> So there's nothing to announce.
May 31 14:30:20 <guaqua> is there any information on the production runs, i.e. how many devices will be produced?
May 31 14:30:21 <LaF0rge> welcome to china ;)
May 31 14:30:47 <LaF0rge> things might happen or not. people may actually do what the promise or not.  
May 31 14:30:48 <sannes> so the update is "we are still waiting on mass production"
May 31 14:31:00 <guaqua> might happen or not :F
May 31 14:31:38 <LaF0rge> things you order might actually be what you ordered or not. 
May 31 14:31:55 <LaF0rge> and they might actually, eventually ship to you, definitely never at the date that was agreed upon
May 31 14:32:02 <LaF0rge> it's not like in europe/us ;)
May 31 14:32:09 <SpeedEvil> Is the facility FICs, or a subcontractor?
May 31 14:32:10 <guaqua> sounds like an ugly place for a german to be working in...the expectation of stuff happening...the normal way ;)
May 31 14:32:36 <LaF0rge> it's FICs factory.
May 31 14:34:22 <aloril> ah, so no devices at all *yet*: once they are produced and before they will be available for actual shipping: I guess there will be some announcement?
May 31 14:34:36 * buz half expects them to ship pink neos if/as/when they ship some
May 31 14:35:00 * SpeedEvil owns a can of paint.
May 31 14:35:23 * SpeedEvil is tempted to make a burr-walnut case.
May 31 14:35:35 <SpeedEvil> With nice brass fittings.
May 31 14:35:41 <LaF0rge> I _suppose_ there are something like 500 units now somewhere.
May 31 14:35:45 * guaqua is going to pimp his moko with those plastic diamond thingies
May 31 14:36:02 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 31 14:36:03 <LaF0rge> but I will not let them ship any of those before I personally have done QA on something like 10% samples
May 31 14:36:13 * nnpiggy 's serial number is 328.
May 31 14:36:14 <aloril> 500 units produced at late May?
May 31 14:37:02 <aloril> sounds like progress in any case (good news)
May 31 14:37:23 * hrw|gone has 193 (bv3) & 234 (bv4)
May 31 14:37:25 <LaF0rge> you don't know if they produced 500 bricks. there are _so_ many things that can go wrong
May 31 14:37:37 * aloril agrees
May 31 14:37:53 <aloril> still it raises hopes ;-)
May 31 14:38:10 <SpeedEvil> I'm going with my 'it's being produced in Narnia, and there are problems with the wardrobe door' explanation.
May 31 14:39:16 <ossman> LaF0rge, I intend to clean up the mmc driver in the next few days. do you need incremental patches or is it acceptable with a new s3mci.patch that contains the entire thing?
May 31 14:40:19 <LaF0rge> ossman: one single replacement is fine, though a diff old->new would also be useful for review purpose
May 31 14:41:04 <ossman> LaF0rge, sure. I'll just post both to the list
May 31 14:42:00 <guaqua> CM: you've put hexinput in the buying interest list
May 31 14:42:08 <guaqua> CM: have you done anything related to it?
May 31 14:49:53 <Elrond> BTW: buildhost has kernel images with 2.6.* and 2.6-* what's the difference?
May 31 14:51:56 <guaqua> and has someone though of how the screen locking is done?
May 31 14:51:57 <aloril> LaF0rge: thanks answering questions, vague update is better than no information
May 31 14:52:00 <guaqua> or key locking in general
May 31 14:52:13 <LaF0rge> elrond: some 'OE artefact', I never understood why the kernel is built twice (gta01-kernel and linux-gta01)
May 31 14:52:52 <Elrond> LaF0rge - So in theory those with the same svn-rev and r[0-9] should be idenitcal?
May 31 14:52:58 <LaF0rge> yes
May 31 14:53:15 <Elrond> Ahh, good. :-)
May 31 14:56:27 <pavelm> Hello, everyone.
May 31 14:57:25 <Elrond> Hi pavelm :)
May 31 14:58:32 <pavelm> gps now works on phase0 openmoko, good.
May 31 14:58:46 <pavelm> ...but audio still does not (sw problem, it used to work)
May 31 14:58:55 <pavelm> ...any ideas how to get it to work?
May 31 14:59:19 <pavelm> ...ouch and someone replaced main menu with evil, non functional today screen in may-30 version ;-)
May 31 15:00:45 <Elrond> Okay... now I know for real, why I keep m old rootfs and update only selected packages by hand. ;)
May 31 15:00:52 <Rince> *g*
May 31 15:00:55 <Elrond> sound: Hmm, I'll try that at home. ;)
May 31 15:01:55 <pavelm> elrond: what is the magic way to update ipkgs?
May 31 15:02:05 <Elrond> Rince - It mostly works and when I show the thing to peope, thwey can actually play a little with it. ;)
May 31 15:02:27 <Rince> well - apparently no one will have one on the GPN tomorrow so I won't see it there ;)
May 31 15:02:35 <Elrond> pavelm - I do it very by hand: download them from buildhost and scp them to phone, then ipkg install file.ipk
May 31 15:02:48 <Elrond> GPN?
May 31 15:03:18 <Rince> GPN == "Gulasch Programmier Nacht" - Entropia, CCC Karlsruhe has a meeting over the weekend with ~200 hackers apparently
May 31 15:03:46 <Elrond> Ahhh. A friend wanted to get me there... and we missed to organise that for real.
May 31 15:04:56 <Rince> damned
May 31 15:04:58 <Rince> just come over ;)
May 31 15:04:58 <LuitvD> I'm freeeeeeee :D
May 31 15:05:12 <Elrond> Rince - It's the whole weekend?
May 31 15:05:12 <atla> w00t
May 31 15:05:13 <atla> nice
May 31 15:05:18 <atla> where is it Rince?
May 31 15:05:20 <atla> the meeting
May 31 15:05:49 <Rince> Elrond: yes, it is
May 31 15:05:53 <Rince> atla: Karlsruhe, University
May 31 15:06:12 <atla> ah
May 31 15:06:14 <atla> nice
May 31 15:06:18 <atla> thats not far away :D
May 31 15:06:37 <Elrond> Yeah, I could come saturday for a few hours.
May 31 15:06:58 <atla> i guess by train its about 40min :)
May 31 15:07:13 <atla> a trip to karlsruhe would be nice, is there an entrance fee?
May 31 15:07:18 <amarsh04> SpeedEvil, from 2 hours ago, I've run Google Earth on a PII-266
May 31 15:07:44 <pH5> pavelm: what was needed to get gps going on p0?
May 31 15:08:02 <atla> Rince is there some openmoko related stuff on that event?
May 31 15:08:03 <pavelm> ph5: New enough kernel, and gllin from phase1.
May 31 15:08:05 <Elrond> pH5 - Newer kernel.
May 31 15:08:12 <pH5> oh, great.
May 31 15:08:19 <Rince> Elrond: I won't be there Saturday afternoon since I will attend a birthday party...
May 31 15:08:23 <Elrond> pH5 - BTW: I tried to port your hhtest.c to python. I failed.... :-|
May 31 15:08:26 <Rince> atla: unfortunately no afaik
May 31 15:08:35 <Elrond> Rince - :-(
May 31 15:08:45 <atla> would be cool if anyone with a p0 showed up ;)
May 31 15:08:48 <Rince> http://entropia.de/wiki/GPN6
May 31 15:08:50 <atla> Rince from where are you?
May 31 15:08:53 <Rince> atla: Stuttgart
May 31 15:08:59 <atla> ok :)
May 31 15:09:01 <Rince> Elrond: I'll be there the evening and the morning ;)
May 31 15:09:14 <Elrond> atla - I was considering to show up with "my" p0. But if Rince isn't there...
May 31 15:09:29 <Rince> Elrond: do you know when (time) you would be there?
May 31 15:09:30 <atla> ill be there :P
May 31 15:09:31 <Rince> roundabout?
May 31 15:09:37 <Rince> atla: you will? great!
May 31 15:09:38 <atla> maybe ;)
May 31 15:09:44 <atla> its not far
May 31 15:09:50 <Elrond> Rince - I think, about 14-19 or so.
May 31 15:09:51 <LaF0rge> if somebody tells me an address I could send an express packet 
May 31 15:10:06 <LaF0rge> why doesn't anyone tell us beforehand :(
May 31 15:10:07 <Rince> Elrond: ok.
May 31 15:10:11 <Rince> LaF0rge: I asked here ;=)
May 31 15:10:22 <LaF0rge> yeah. on a public irc channel. great.
May 31 15:10:32 <Rince> LaF0rge: if you really want to, you could send it here to my work and I'll take it with me
May 31 15:10:40 <LaF0rge> now its too late to send it today, i.e. it would only arrive on saturday :(
May 31 15:10:47 <Rince> LaF0rge: Sorry. I thought if someone would be interested in having it there he would answer here ;)
May 31 15:11:01 <Rince> LaF0rge: Hm. just a minute...
May 31 15:11:23 <LaF0rge> rince: _nobody_ responsible  has time to read IRC for more than 20mins per week, if at all
May 31 15:11:24 <cjb> LaF0rge: Hi, would you be a good person to moderate a community@ post I made yesterday?  Sorry for the trouble.
May 31 15:11:40 <Rince> LaF0rge: ok ;)
May 31 15:11:54 <LaF0rge> cjb: the listmaster will take care of it. if not, contact *-owner@lists or directly at chtsai@openmoko.org
May 31 15:12:00 <cjb> Thanks.
May 31 15:13:32 <pavelm> what is the name of gpe-mainmenu (not openmoko-mainmenu)?
May 31 15:13:34 <LuitvD> hey LaF0rge :) haven't seen you in a while
May 31 15:14:01 <LuitvD> LaF0rge: i wanted to ask you something about those HXD8 patches, of which you seem to have written some...
May 31 15:14:07 <Elrond> Rince - {14:32 KA Hbf} looks like a possible arrival time.
May 31 15:14:54 <Clint> karlsruhe hauptbahnhof
May 31 15:15:00 <SpeedEvil> amarsh04: Wacky. When I tried it on my PII/300, it diddn't want to know.
May 31 15:15:05 <pH5> pavelm: matchbox-desktop?
May 31 15:15:14 <SpeedEvil> amarsh04: Maybe I should try a more recent version.
May 31 15:15:29 <pavelm> ph5: Yes, thanks. Hmm, it starts in small font now.
May 31 15:16:02 <pavelm> ...huh, I guess I've to go.
May 31 15:16:28 <amarsh04> it barely ran on my PII-266, so I just use google maps instead and try google earth on my stepdaughters dual core laptop under windows xp
May 31 15:17:24 <amarsh04> back later
May 31 15:17:49 <LuitvD> LaF0rge: are you there?
May 31 15:18:22 <LaF0rge> lui: no, sorry. I'm short before a heartattack.
May 31 15:18:26 <Elrond> I guess, those were the 20minutes/week ;o)
May 31 15:18:57 <LuitvD> meh, that sucks
May 31 15:19:11 <LuitvD> had a rather good question for him...
May 31 15:19:50 <Elrond> LuitvD - What sort of question?  possible bug?
May 31 15:19:59 <LuitvD> Elrond: yes
May 31 15:20:51 <pavelm> bye!
May 31 15:20:51 <LuitvD[eating]> I'm gone too then...
May 31 15:25:57 <aloril2> LuitvD: don't ask to ask: just ask: better chance in getting answer
May 31 15:26:42 <SuN> I don't know, an unannounced question might just trigger that heart attack :D
May 31 16:00:16 * aloril2 thinks he will add 2 more days tomorrow to counter unless further news
May 31 16:00:46 * aloril2 hope laforge doesn't burn out
May 31 16:00:58 <aloril2> s:hope:hopes:
May 31 16:01:57 <antenagora> counter
May 31 16:01:57 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 09:59:00 (2.416 +-2.4 days) (1356;221)
May 31 16:02:07 <TRIsoft> gtg, cu
May 31 16:03:27 <SpeedEvil> IMO, add a couple of weeks on.
May 31 16:06:43 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: couple of weeks? for P1 you mean?
May 31 16:06:54 * SpeedEvil is a pessimist.
May 31 16:06:59 <LuitvD> meh
May 31 16:07:04 <SpeedEvil> s/pessimi/real/
May 31 16:07:28 <LuitvD> realst? :P
May 31 16:07:55 * SpeedEvil also can't spell.
May 31 16:08:04 <LuitvD> :)
May 31 16:13:48 <PBeck> ahoi
May 31 16:14:13 <ewon> o/
May 31 16:20:12 <buz> add it's done when it's done
May 31 16:20:58 <buz> and who knows if the next revision has a gpu we might get to play duke nukem 4
May 31 16:21:25 <Stephmw> buz: I heard it'll be powerful enough to play Duke Nukem Forever
May 31 16:21:33 <Stephmw> buz: and released only 2 weeks afterwards
May 31 16:23:26 <kiney> counter
May 31 16:23:27 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 09:48:15 (2.409 +-2.4 days) (1357;221)
May 31 16:24:48 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03laforge * r2111 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-hxd8.patch: Fix NAND chip selection for HXD8
May 31 16:25:38 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: I'll move some of probability to next part instead and keep scenario 1 as 'if all goes well one'
May 31 16:28:16 <aloril2> if goes well: about <=week, if things happen, but not optimally: 1-3 weeks 
May 31 16:30:04 <aloril2> maybe half chance for both and together maybe 2/3 chance?
May 31 16:30:27 <SpeedEvil> I don't think the counter means much ATM.
May 31 16:31:51 <SpeedEvil> If it all goes right, and they are simply delaying announcement till the last coat of beeswax on the presentation boxes dries, it could be tomorrow. If the mass production goes wrong in the first batch, it could be weeks.
May 31 16:35:52 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: did you read what laforge said? Tomorrow sounded unlikely
May 31 16:36:46 <SpeedEvil> He also said he wasn't in the loop. AIUI.
May 31 16:38:03 <SpeedEvil> 'I don't know anything more about it than anyone else"/
May 31 16:39:08 <aloril2> yes, but he wanted to test 10% of them personally: "supposedly 500 somewhere" -> test at least 10% -> shipping doesn't sound like would happen in a day in optimistic case
May 31 16:41:21 <SpeedEvil> Diddn't see that.
May 31 16:43:26 <aloril2> in any case it did sound like it in theory could happen in few days or at other extreme there are 500 brick units (or even nothing)
May 31 16:44:08 <aloril2> optimistic in me thinks that my unit already exits and just needs to pass QA ;-)
May 31 16:46:01 <don-o> counter
May 31 16:46:02 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 09:36:57 (2.401 +-2.4 days) (1358;221)
May 31 16:47:25 <parag0n> heh, remeber when we thought we were going to get the neo before the iPhone release?
May 31 16:47:48 <xkr47> parag0n, you sound like it's 20 years later now :D
May 31 16:48:10 <don-o> parag0n: those were the days.
May 31 16:48:13 <parag0n> to be fair, it may as well be :P
May 31 16:49:12 <aloril2> parag0n: it could still happen ;-)
May 31 16:49:49 <LuitvD> who still thinks it'll be this month? the announce?
May 31 16:50:08 <don-o> LuitvD: 'this month' has about 12 hours left in it.
May 31 16:50:16 <LuitvD> yup
May 31 16:50:35 <LuitvD> but that could be enough for the announce, couldn't it?
May 31 16:50:43 <don-o> LuitvD: 8-ball says: "not bloody likely"
May 31 16:50:49 <don-o> LuitvD: what do you mean by 'the announce'?
May 31 16:50:50 <LuitvD> heheh
May 31 16:51:05 <LuitvD> the announcement about the devices, that they're for sale...
May 31 16:51:18 <xkr47> don-o, strangely, my 8ball said no as well :P
May 31 16:51:24 <LuitvD> :)
May 31 16:51:24 <don-o> xkr47: ha
May 31 16:51:51 <LuitvD> lol, laforge fixed the bug I wanted to tell him about just when he left
May 31 16:52:14 <LuitvD> noticed some inconsistencies in NAND chip selection
May 31 16:52:34 <LuitvD> let's see what he did to it
May 31 16:52:38 <aloril2> He is telepathic ;-)
May 31 16:53:05 <LuitvD> yeah, I guess he is
May 31 16:53:12 <Rince> *g*
May 31 16:53:15 <xkr47> or maybe he has an 8ball too :)
May 31 16:53:19 <LuitvD> quite scary actually :)
May 31 16:53:50 <LuitvD> or he tested the patch on an HXD8 already... :?
May 31 16:53:52 * aloril2 wonders if even sean knows current status
May 31 16:54:42 * LuitvD wonders if sean still has high hopes...
May 31 16:57:00 <SpeedEvil> I don't recall any announce that said "may".
May 31 16:57:10 <SpeedEvil> I just recall the announce of the runs on the 10th, 20th. 
May 31 16:57:18 <SpeedEvil> And the announce of the delay on the run.
May 31 16:57:45 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: and his 'being told may is still possible'
May 31 16:58:31 <SpeedEvil> True. I'm not sure I can make accurate predictions. I've lost my magic-8-ball.
May 31 16:58:55 * LuitvD never had one :)
May 31 16:59:35 <LuitvD> don't like predictions... I like planning... XD
May 31 17:00:46 <Elrond> LuitvD - If you have a possible bug (what you wanted to ask Lafroge), just file a bug, and set the title appropiately. :)
May 31 17:01:10 <LuitvD> Elrond: welll, I wasn't that sure about it, that's why I wanted to ask him...
May 31 17:01:22 <LuitvD> Elrond: and now I see it wasn't necessary
May 31 17:01:37 <LuitvD> because he most likely already noticed
May 31 17:01:41 <LuitvD> or just mind-read
May 31 17:04:34 <Elrond> LuitvD - hehe. ;)
May 31 17:09:33 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: it actually sounded like current situation is normal with chinese
May 31 17:18:44 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - My friend has a magic-8-watch. ;o)
May 31 17:19:13 * SpeedEvil contemplates application:magic-8-ball.
May 31 17:20:21 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - If that doesn't already exist... it should be written. ;o)
May 31 18:22:36 <Elrond> Okay, so who wanted to know, how the Neo is in the Sun?
May 31 18:23:16 * SpeedEvil raises a psuedopod.
May 31 18:23:17 <Magon> i want
May 31 18:23:22 <SpeedEvil> s/psuedopod/hand/
May 31 18:24:21 <Elrond> Magon - http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/
May 31 18:24:44 <Magon> and i am not the one who wanted..i just want to know
May 31 18:25:34 <Magon> you had sunny afternoon?
May 31 18:25:52 <Elrond> Magon - Yep, yesterday and today. :-)
May 31 18:26:05 <Magon> :-)
May 31 18:26:11 <Elrond> Well, the pics are from yesterday morning.
May 31 18:26:27 <SpeedEvil> Not unexpected.
May 31 18:26:53 <SpeedEvil> You need a hell of a lot of power to display in the sunlight.
May 31 18:27:27 <SpeedEvil> Or reflection of course.
May 31 18:27:40 <Magon> i hate reflection on laptops
May 31 18:27:51 <SpeedEvil> reflective mode I mean.
May 31 18:28:10 <Magon> there are some laptops with reflective screen
May 31 18:28:21 <balrog-kun> they could take the LCDs from the OLPC machines
May 31 18:28:21 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - it can be a better option.
May 31 18:28:23 <Magon> and yes..you can see something in sun..mostly yourself
May 31 18:28:36 <SpeedEvil> But you have to position it very carefully.
May 31 18:28:40 <SpeedEvil> Wearing black helps :)
May 31 18:29:19 <Elrond> Magon - Right. I also have a bad pic with Neo only showing black and me taking the photo. ;o)
May 31 18:29:33 <balrog-kun> they're $100 each, you could probably cut out at least six Neo displays out of one OLPC display
May 31 18:29:44 <balrog-kun> so below $20
May 31 18:29:56 <SpeedEvil> You can't do that.
May 31 18:29:58 <Elrond> balrog-kun - s/100/150/ if I remember the latest news...
May 31 18:30:07 <balrog-kun> $150? o_O
May 31 18:30:14 <SpeedEvil> It - more - or - less works for 40" - 15"
May 31 18:30:24 <SpeedEvil> The price per unit area is fairly constant.
May 31 18:30:38 <SpeedEvil> But once you get below 14" or so, it really breaks down.
May 31 18:31:25 <balrog-kun> how do you mean breaks down?
May 31 18:31:50 <balrog-kun> Elrond: lucky you
May 31 18:31:54 <balrog-kun> it's raining all day here
May 31 18:32:17 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: You can more or less say that 20" displays are 1/4 the price of 40"
May 31 18:32:33 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: You can't say that 2" displays are 1/100th the cost of 20".
May 31 18:32:48 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: ah
May 31 18:33:02 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: you could use scissors
May 31 18:34:11 <barmeier> hi
May 31 18:35:07 <barmeier> counter
May 31 18:35:07 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 08:42:25 (2.363 +-2.4 days) (1359;221)
May 31 18:35:10 <SpeedEvil> No, barmeier, there is no firm date as to when it will ship.
May 31 18:35:39 <Rince> *g+
May 31 18:35:50 <Rince> just stop that damned counter... and wait for the curtain fall ;)
May 31 18:35:56 <Bish> :D
May 31 18:36:23 <barmeier> hmm, ok I have to wait, patience is my second my name ;)
May 31 18:36:49 <sparq> I wonder how long it will be before the LCD design for the XO machine starts turning up in other devices. I have always hated color LCDs in mobile devices, including laptops.
May 31 18:37:12 <SpeedEvil> OLED could fundamentally be better.
May 31 18:37:19 <SpeedEvil> If it could get the efficiency up.
May 31 18:37:20 <sparq> I would happily sacrifice color and a backlight for readability in all conditions
May 31 18:37:23 <SpeedEvil> And the life.
May 31 18:38:19 <sparq> I like the old fashioned monocrhome liquid crystal displays they use on graphing calculators. I just want a higher resolution version of the screen on the TI-89.
May 31 18:38:34 <SpeedEvil> I'd like a cheap neo too.
May 31 18:38:36 <balrog-kun> there was a time when all pr0n had no colours
May 31 18:38:47 <SpeedEvil> BT/GSM/256*256 or so.
May 31 18:38:55 <Bish> SpeedEvil: quality > preis
May 31 18:38:55 <sparq> balrog-kun: yeah -- 1880.
May 31 18:38:58 <SpeedEvil> With the display able to be on all the time.
May 31 18:42:20 <MetaMorfoziS> !counterū
May 31 18:42:22 <MetaMorfoziS> !counter
May 31 18:42:24 <MetaMorfoziS> i need that link
May 31 18:42:28 <MetaMorfoziS> that printed a week ago with counter
May 31 18:42:30 <MetaMorfoziS> can anybody give me that?
May 31 18:42:38 <MetaMorfoziS> counter
May 31 18:42:38 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 08:38:39 (2.360 +-2.4 days) (1360;221)
May 31 18:42:40 <MetaMorfoziS> ah!
May 31 18:42:41 <MetaMorfoziS> :)
May 31 18:43:53 <Bish> ping
May 31 18:43:57 <Bish> ?ping
May 31 18:44:00 <Bish> ? ping grr
May 31 18:44:06 <Bish> ! ping
May 31 18:44:09 <MetaMorfoziS> pong
May 31 18:44:10 <MacNorth> pong?
May 31 18:44:13 <Stephmw> mindshare question... anyone heard of the BCS, their IT qualifications or their reputation?
May 31 18:44:14 <Bish> gut.. darauf hab gewartet
May 31 18:44:16 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - You mean like my current phone? The display is on all the time, just no backlight? :)
May 31 18:44:16 <MetaMorfoziS> MacNorth: slow:)
May 31 18:44:17 <Stephmw> (trying to gauge their reach outside the UK)
May 31 18:44:17 <Bish> dacht ich waer geflogen
May 31 18:45:05 <Bish> arghs sorry.. wrong channel
May 31 18:45:22 <MacNorth> the acronym isn't familiar
May 31 18:50:04 <sparq> Elrond: I love my t39m mostly because it doesn't have a color screen, so I can read it very easily in sunlight. That's why I've refused to replace it, dispite T-Mobile throwing free phones at me for two years now.
May 31 18:50:59 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: my current phone is a nk3300
May 31 18:51:05 <univac> t39 is the best phone ever
May 31 18:51:09 <SpeedEvil> 30*40mm b+w display.
May 31 18:51:12 <sparq> The top drawer in my office contains a little graveyard of phones that I refuse to use.
May 31 18:51:28 <Elrond> sparq - ME45 here.
May 31 18:52:20 <ewon> I have a 6230i
May 31 18:52:27 <ewon> does the job
May 31 18:52:31 <ewon> battery life could be better
May 31 18:53:14 <sparq> If I don't buy a Neo, I'm going to buy another t39m off of eBay for $15. ^_^
May 31 18:53:29 <Elrond> sparq - ;o)
May 31 18:54:52 <happycube> for $15 you could probably still afford a neo ;)
May 31 18:55:14 <Elrond> Rince - BTW: When will you leave / return to GPN on Saturday?
May 31 18:55:43 <sparq> My only complain about the t39m is that it is beige.
May 31 18:55:58 <SuN> My only complaint would be the huge antenna.
May 31 18:55:58 <Elrond> Rince - And other thing: I don't have my build env / other neo-tools on a laptop, just on my big desktop at home. ;)
May 31 18:56:04 <sparq> happycube: Quite possibly. ^_^
May 31 18:56:17 <Rince> Elrond: I will at least be there the beginning you're coming
May 31 18:56:29 <Rince> I will come back later that day. Or cancel that birthday party, don't know yet
May 31 18:56:45 <Rince> Elrond: I have a qemu-System on my laptop, do you need more?
May 31 18:56:46 <Elrond> Rince - Ahh. Is there any entrance fee?
May 31 18:57:05 <Rince> Elrond: if you have enough money they ask for a gift by 15¤
May 31 18:57:12 <Elrond> Rince - Well, dfu-util is nice, if one wants to boot a newer kernel. ;)
May 31 19:21:55 <buz> mhh the magic 8 ball app needs an accelerometer
May 31 19:23:41 <Elrond> buz - *lol*
May 31 19:23:57 <buz> and physics engine
May 31 19:24:13 <buz> you could also play yatzee then
May 31 19:25:01 <Rince> *G*
May 31 19:25:07 <Elrond> Oh, DFU in action for everybody who never wanted to see u-boot on the neo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/523490336/ ;o)
May 31 19:26:41 <buz> http://www.ftrain.com/robot_exclusion_protocol.html rofl
May 31 19:27:13 <balrog-kun> i believe there should be ways to flash a new kernel/u-boot/splash from under a running Linux
May 31 19:27:44 <cjb> Stephmw: I hate the BCS.  :)
May 31 19:27:55 <balrog-kun> rootfs may be a problem because it needs to be formatted as jffs2, but the other stuff should work with just scp and writing to /dev/mtblock
May 31 19:30:39 <Elrond> Right.
May 31 19:31:01 <Elrond> balrog-kun - I just don't flash. I load the kernel into RAM and then boot it. :-)
May 31 19:32:44 <balrog-kun> ah okay
May 31 19:33:21 <balrog-kun> well, that can be also done from under Linux :)
May 31 19:33:27 <balrog-kun> - using kexec()
May 31 19:35:41 <Elrond> hehe, yeah. ;)
May 31 19:36:22 <Stephmw> cjb: any particular reason?
May 31 19:37:33 <cjb> Stephmw: one of their drones came to my university and gave a talk about how Windows 3.1 was the pinnacle of personal computing and how he refused to update to anything newer.
May 31 19:37:41 <cjb> and I think he said something bad about Linux, too.
May 31 19:38:05 <cjb> but just the idea of a computing body that doesn't believe computing is getting better is, well, too dumb to live.
May 31 19:45:45 <LuitvD> hmm, maybe the miCard standard is something to consider for the next-gen openmoko device from FIC...
May 31 19:46:05 <LuitvD> looks like it's a more open standard then SD
May 31 19:46:18 <SpeedEvil> micard?
May 31 19:47:31 <LuitvD> some new standard from the multimediacard association
May 31 19:47:51 <LuitvD> 60MB/s throuput :D
May 31 19:48:10 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 31 19:48:10 <LuitvD> s/put/ghput/
May 31 19:48:12 <apt> LuitvD meant: 60MB/s throughput :D
May 31 19:48:23 <LuitvD> because of it's 16-bit bus
May 31 19:48:26 <LuitvD> http://www.eetimes.com/rss/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199703805&cid=RSSfeed_eetimes_newsRSS
May 31 19:49:07 <don-o> vendor-lockin is advantageous in a cell phone.
May 31 19:49:15 <don-o> s/advantageous/despicable
May 31 19:49:21 <don-o> s/advantageous/despicable/
May 31 19:49:22 <apt> don-o meant: s/despicable/despicable
May 31 19:49:27 <don-o> heh :)
May 31 19:49:30 <balrog-kun> haha
May 31 19:49:31 <LuitvD> lolz
May 31 19:49:38 <LuitvD> "Eventually, miCard throughput will increase to 120Mbytes per second. In labs tests, it's been achieved, but the internal interface of NAND chips remains a bottleneck to achieving such an overall system speed."
May 31 19:49:55 <LuitvD> :)
May 31 19:50:44 <LuitvD> and it's an USB-like interface
May 31 19:51:10 <LuitvD> s/-like//
May 31 19:51:11 <apt> LuitvD meant: and it's an USB interface
May 31 19:51:13 <LuitvD> :)
May 31 19:51:16 <LuitvD> even better
May 31 19:54:15 <LuitvD> hell, the neo even already supports miCard :)
May 31 19:55:39 <buz> i still wonder why people didnt go usb when they made new flash standards
May 31 19:55:56 <buz> heck there's even USB sim thingies now
May 31 19:56:30 <SpeedEvil> usb means clocking
May 31 19:56:44 <SpeedEvil> high speed pll means power
May 31 20:06:29 <SpeedEvil> Is there a wya to actually delet a page - not just blank it?
May 31 20:14:35 * balrog-kun is not sure whether SpeedEvil means a NAND flash page or a wiki page in the current context :)
May 31 20:17:17 <SpeedEvil> wiki
May 31 20:20:16 <Elrond> Hmm. Great... "reboot" and the thing is frozen. It even hangs "lsusb" on my host.
May 31 20:20:52 <ewon> good going
May 31 20:22:23 <Elrond> At least pressing the powerbutton for a long time gets it off (I already had to pull the battery once)
May 31 20:22:49 <ewon> the bios in this laptop is so retarded
May 31 20:23:19 <ewon> if you attach the secondary battery, it doesn't detect it, and complains about crtical battery status every 5 mins or so
May 31 20:37:02 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bad_title]] [[Main_Page/zh_cn]]
May 31 20:55:07 <KragenSitaker> well, actually deleting a NAND page would require a dentist's drill or something
May 31 20:55:14 <KragenSitaker> assuming it's even physically contiguous
May 31 21:05:28 <balrog-kun> you could mark a page as bad though :p
May 31 21:33:11 <greentux> ~counter
May 31 21:33:41 <stefan_schmidt> counter
May 31 21:33:42 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 07:13:07 (2.301 +-2.3 days) (1361;222)
May 31 21:35:21 <greentux> hi stefan_schmidt , also in berlin?
May 31 21:35:37 <greentux> we have the latest mai hours :)
May 31 21:36:04 <alphaone> greentux: We're coming tomorrow
May 31 21:36:05 <stefan_schmidt> greentux: We start tomorrow at 8:00. Hope we come right to the GPEPhone talk from Nils
May 31 21:36:15 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: Ah, you are awake
May 31 21:36:39 <greentux> ok. fine.
May 31 21:36:48 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: Yeah
May 31 21:36:54 <greentux> from hamburg?
May 31 21:37:02 <stefan_schmidt> greentux: Braunschweig
May 31 21:37:03 <alphaone> from Braunschweig
May 31 21:37:27 <greentux> ah ok. 2h... fast
May 31 21:37:44 <alphaone> greentux: more like 2.5h...
May 31 21:38:01 <alphaone> But we'll see. I'm driving ;-)
May 31 21:38:06 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: Only because you drive. ;)
May 31 21:38:07 <greentux> right, nils starts 11 I think...
May 31 21:38:14 <stefan_schmidt> yeah, 11
May 31 21:38:54 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: btw, it seems I have to spent at least one hour on my study paper during the trip.
May 31 21:39:22 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: Oh... He didn't give in to your proposal?
May 31 21:40:05 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: NO, tuesday is fine, but I did not spent as much time as I like today
May 31 21:40:50 <stefan_schmidt> BTW, both talks, OpenMoko and OpenEZX, were accepted at MDD 07.
May 31 21:42:31 <alphaone> cool
May 31 21:42:33 <pavelm> Hello, everyone.
May 31 21:42:39 <Elrond> Hi alphaone and pavelm :)
May 31 21:42:46 <stefan_schmidt> hi pavelm 
May 31 21:42:51 <Elrond> Hi stefan_schmidt :)
May 31 21:42:53 <pavelm> ...took a openmoko for a trip. Gps worked for 3.5hours, transmitting data via bluetooth.
May 31 21:43:07 <Elrond> (upgrading single packages is as bad as anything. ;o) )
May 31 21:43:10 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: my name directly under Dr. Michael Lauer :)
May 31 21:43:15 <pavelm> ...I wonder if cpu can sleep while gps is powered up?
May 31 21:43:40 <Elrond> pavelm - You need cpu in full speed to do BT.
May 31 21:44:00 <greentux> stefan_schmidt:  mdd?
May 31 21:44:15 <stefan_schmidt> greentux: Mobile Developer Days in Denmark
May 31 21:44:25 <greentux> oh
May 31 21:44:28 <stefan_schmidt> greentux: http://mobiledevices.kom.aau.dk/team_and_organization/events/mobile_developer_days_2007/
May 31 21:44:37 <pavelm> elrond: That's bad :-(.
May 31 21:45:02 <alphaone> hi Elrond, pavelm 
May 31 21:45:05 <pavelm> elrond: is gps control still possible with cpu off?
May 31 21:45:13 * stefan_schmidt is interested how the motorola people around will find the talk :)
May 31 21:45:14 <pavelm> Hi, alphaone!
May 31 21:45:27 <Elrond> pavelm - If you do time travel gps, you can power up BT (and get CPU in full speed) every 30sec or so. ;o)
May 31 21:46:58 <Elrond> BTW: Does the backlight work with 2108 on Bv04?
May 31 21:47:03 <sixfeet> http://biboz.net/humor/linux.jpg
May 31 21:47:49 <pavelm> stefan: I do not think we are threat for Motorola...
May 31 21:48:26 <stefan_schmidt> pavelm: I'm talking about my OpenEZX talk. Freeing Motorola linux 2.4 phones. :)
May 31 21:49:24 <pavelm>  /. Germany Declares Hacking Tools Illegal
May 31 21:49:41 <pavelm> ...I wonder if it is time for german hackers to move here? ;-)
May 31 21:49:57 <pavelm> stefan: Motorola linux people will not care. OpenEZX only scares their lawyers.
May 31 21:50:05 <stefan_schmidt> pavelm: We need our own country it seems
May 31 21:50:05 <pavelm> stefan: And FCC and related organizations ;-).
May 31 21:51:02 <stefan_schmidt> pavelm: Motorola linux people don't care at all it seems. At least not in my communication channels with them.
May 31 21:51:40 <stefan_schmidt> Anyway, another hour of work and sleep afterwards. Night all.
May 31 21:52:20 <pavelm> good night, stefan!
May 31 21:53:28 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: bluetooth can't work in slow mode. GPS will get a position in a second.
May 31 21:53:41 <SpeedEvil> But you need to turn the CPU on fully to talk to the USB ports
May 31 21:53:49 <SpeedEvil> of which the BT thingy is connected to one.
May 31 21:54:11 <pavelm> speed: Well... GPS will only get position in second _in good conditions_.
May 31 21:54:35 <pavelm> speed: I do not think it is going to be in good conditions for most of my use :-).
May 31 21:56:34 <Elrond> stefan_schmidt - Good night.
May 31 22:01:41 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - good conditions.
May 31 22:01:59 <SpeedEvil> You can probably slow the CPU to slow mode, if you're happy with the BT going off.
May 31 22:03:31 <SpeedEvil> (and still keep doing GPS positioning.)
May 31 22:04:00 <pavelm> Good.
May 31 22:04:20 <pavelm> GPS seems to take 10% of cpu... not sure if cpu has enough horsepower in slow mode.
May 31 22:04:33 <mjr> sure it has
May 31 22:04:43 <pavelm> mjr: Ok ;-)
May 31 22:04:59 <SpeedEvil> It's 12Mhz.
May 31 22:05:09 <SpeedEvil> My garmin GPS has a 386ex16
May 31 22:05:11 <mjr> ok, wrong recollection
May 31 22:05:14 <SpeedEvil> and does mapping too.
May 31 22:05:22 <pavelm> Strange thing. When I was trying to measure current on phase0 openmoko "turned off" current was only ~1mW.
May 31 22:05:32 <SpeedEvil> Sounds likely.
May 31 22:05:42 <SpeedEvil> That's probably suspend-RAM current.
May 31 22:05:44 <pavelm> speed; hammerhead takes 10% of arm@200MHz. ... 
May 31 22:06:04 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: what was the absolute mA figure?
May 31 22:06:16 <SpeedEvil> My estimate was 45mW
May 31 22:06:33 <pavelm> speed: ...but, rumors were that phase0 eat way too much current -- and I did not see that while measuring.
May 31 22:06:45 <pavelm> speed: ...but batteries are eaten as if _you_ are right.
May 31 22:06:48 <SpeedEvil> Or another way - what would be the max 'idle' current?
May 31 22:06:59 <SpeedEvil> What's the meter?
May 31 22:07:03 <pavelm> speed: I'm puzzled. Perhaps my amp meter has too big internal resistance? 
May 31 22:07:09 <pavelm> speed: Old analog one.
May 31 22:07:13 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 31 22:07:26 <pavelm> speed: it was ~250uA for powered off openmoko.
May 31 22:07:35 <pavelm> speed: NOt sure what you mean by 'max idle'.
May 31 22:07:43 <SpeedEvil> Analog meters tend to be not horribly bad at averaging currents.
May 31 22:08:06 <SpeedEvil> I mean what's the 'powered on, cpu active but not running cpu heavy processes, screen off' figure
May 31 22:09:11 <SpeedEvil> Or have you written down the measurements somewhere?
May 31 22:09:38 <SpeedEvil> AIUI. The excess power figure seems likely to only happen in slow mode - if it does go into that mode at all.
May 31 22:10:14 <SpeedEvil> The fast PLLs do not turn off, and they use lots of useless power in slow mode.
May 31 22:10:25 <SpeedEvil> Slow mode is not 'off' mode - which may be suspend-RAM mode.
May 31 22:10:34 <pavelm> speed: 'powered on, cpu idle, backlight on' was ~1W.
May 31 22:10:51 <pavelm> speed: 'powered on, cpu computing, backlight on' was ~1.4W.
May 31 22:11:11 <SpeedEvil> So GPS is ~.1W?
May 31 22:11:22 <SpeedEvil> What's the backlight on/off delta?
May 31 22:11:43 <SpeedEvil> Oh - and is this a P1, or P0?
May 31 22:11:52 <pavelm> speed: Well, gps is 10% cpu as seen on top.
May 31 22:11:58 <pavelm> speed: Power measurements were done on P0.
May 31 22:12:26 <pavelm> speed: So.. when I power it off, as in "off", it could still have reasonably low power consumption?
May 31 22:12:35 <pavelm> speed: It drains batteries even while off :-(.
May 31 22:12:58 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: Odd.
May 31 22:13:04 <Magon> it have no 'really off' mode ?
May 31 22:13:04 <SpeedEvil> It _should_.
May 31 22:13:16 <SpeedEvil> The suspend-RAM mode should be very low in power use.
May 31 22:13:30 <SpeedEvil> Odd.
May 31 22:13:50 <SpeedEvil> I can't get _anywhere_ near 1.4W from the datasheet figures.
May 31 22:14:26 <pavelm> speed: Do you have hardware near you?
May 31 22:14:29 <SpeedEvil> No.
May 31 22:14:38 <SpeedEvil> Well - not as far as I know.
May 31 22:14:38 <Elrond> pavelm - Mine doesn't anymore drain the battery a lot, when I power it off. I use "halt" on the shell to do it.
May 31 22:14:59 <SpeedEvil> Batteries can be faulty in such a way that they drain.
May 31 22:15:23 <Elrond> The problem in off-mode is the LM-amplifier.
May 31 22:15:43 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: the major uncertainty in the power numbers that I guesstimated was the backlight power, which I ballparked at 200mW - from similar devices.
May 31 22:16:10 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: So the backlight off - or at 50% figure would be ingeresting, if the hardware is still setup
May 31 22:16:29 <pavelm> elrond: Aha... I just power it down by holding power button.
May 31 22:17:08 <pavelm> speed: 200mW for display is too low, I'd say.
May 31 22:17:12 <Elrond> Not to mention the gsm... it's also connected directly to the battery. :-(
May 31 22:17:15 <pavelm> speed: ... but I no longer have the setup.
May 31 22:17:26 <SpeedEvil> K
May 31 22:18:18 <SpeedEvil> Those numbers are odd.
May 31 22:18:32 <SpeedEvil> 'sleeping with backlight on' - was that displaying an image?
May 31 22:20:55 <pavelm> speed: No, it just let the backlight on.
May 31 22:21:18 <SpeedEvil> And the screen went blank almost immediately?
May 31 22:21:20 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 31 22:21:55 <SpeedEvil> What does 'sleeping' mean?
May 31 22:23:00 <pavelm> speed: There was "suspend" entry in menu somewhere. Screen actually does fairly interesting graphics while entering that state.
May 31 22:23:38 <SpeedEvil> If the P0 bugs are the ones I think - I think that means that the power used would be 100mW or so.
May 31 22:23:58 <SpeedEvil> Which makes the power used for the screen backlight is 400mW or so.
May 31 22:24:44 * SpeedEvil needs hardware.
May 31 22:24:48 <pavelm> .4W for screen seems very realistic to me.
May 31 22:25:06 <SpeedEvil> It seems high - based on comparing similar size screens.
May 31 22:25:39 <thomasg__> well, the most energy should be needed by the backlight
May 31 22:27:43 <SpeedEvil> From other measurements.
May 31 22:27:56 <SpeedEvil> The current extra drawn by the SD should be almost zero.
May 31 22:28:16 <SpeedEvil> (compared to .4W increase when 'loading applications'.)
May 31 22:28:40 <SpeedEvil> I wonder if memory bandwidth is hurting way more than I estimated.
May 31 22:29:10 <pavelm> speed: apps were loaded from internal flash, not from sd.
May 31 22:29:27 <SpeedEvil> Should be the same - it won't use close to .4W
May 31 22:29:58 <SpeedEvil> The datasheet implied that the CPU would use almost the same power when running CPU burning tasks as when 'idle'.
May 31 22:30:33 <SpeedEvil> It needs to be turned into a special 'sleep' mode to have any worthwhile power savings, like AMD durons forex.
May 31 22:30:38 <pavelm> speed: Taking same power idle and computing seems pretty strange to  me.
May 31 22:30:52 <SpeedEvil> My AMD duron practically does.
May 31 22:31:03 <SpeedEvil> Unless you switch it into a powersaving mode.
May 31 22:31:24 <SpeedEvil> from memory - 35W doing md5sum /dev/urandom
May 31 22:31:32 <SpeedEvil> 30W doing idle
May 31 22:31:45 <SpeedEvil> and 3W in 'stop grant' mode.
May 31 22:33:14 <SpeedEvil> I need to do some proper sums on likely RAM bus capacitance, and the consequent loading due to RAM traffic.
May 31 22:34:05 <pavelm> speed: You should really get neo somewhere ;-)
May 31 22:37:02 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
May 31 22:37:41 * SpeedEvil agrees.
May 31 22:39:05 <wehttamb> counter
May 31 22:39:06 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 60%) P1: 2 days 06:40:25 (2.278 +-2.3 days) (1362;222)
May 31 22:44:23 <CoreDump|home> re
May 31 22:44:54 * balrog-kun just retrieved all new text messages from his Neo and is proceeding to convert them from hex to ascii :)
May 31 22:45:58 <pavelm> balrog: plaing with tui?
May 31 22:46:28 <balrog-kun> pavelm: not yet, at the moment only with "cu"
May 31 22:47:47 <pavelm> balrog: Ugh ;-)
May 31 22:48:00 <pavelm> balrog: convert from hex to ascii is nontrivial due to 7-bit charset.
May 31 22:48:32 <balrog-kun> the data seems to be nicely 8bit aligned
May 31 22:49:43 <balrog-kun> and phone numbers are in cleartext already :)
May 31 22:50:31 <pavelm> balrog: Strange :-)
May 31 22:50:35 <balrog-kun> oh, no, they are only advertisements so far
May 31 22:50:47 <balrog-kun> nobody sent me any messages :-(
May 31 22:51:03 <pavelm> balrog: scmxx is usable tool for deciphering these...
May 31 23:03:17 <Elrond> balrog-kun - cu'ing directly to the gsm chip?
May 31 23:05:23 <pH5> good night
May 31 23:11:27 <balrog-kun> Elrond: yep
May 31 23:11:36 <balrog-kun> there are 4 messages that won't decode -_-
May 31 23:12:05 <balrog-kun> all 4 start with 05000347020 (hex), i wonder if that may be cyrillics or something
May 31 23:12:20 <balrog-kun> two of them come from abroad numbers that i can't identify
May 31 23:17:23 * Elrond is downgrading libmokoui0 ;o)
May 31 23:20:57 * balrog-kun learnt quitting "cu" gently
May 31 23:28:17 <Elrond> :-)
May 31 23:28:47 <Elrond> I still wonder, if the people commiting to svn ever do a single test before commiting. ;o)
May 31 23:28:49 <Vegar> playing with SMS?
May 31 23:37:02 <Elrond> Good night everybody.
May 31 23:37:44 <happycube> oooh that video accel rumor sounds sweet
May 31 23:38:42 <SpeedEvil> I don't want video accell if it adds power usage or cost...
May 31 23:39:05 <SpeedEvil> The only possible app I can see would be something like google maps.
May 31 23:40:01 <balrog-kun> right, and at 2" x 2" it doesn't make a difference whether you render at 480x640 or 160x240 (which would be probably faster with no accel)
May 31 23:40:11 <SpeedEvil> True.
May 31 23:40:56 <SpeedEvil> I can see - with an accelleromter - maps being usable with the screen held close.
May 31 23:42:01 <happycube> yeah... also it might actually need *less* power to deal with screen stuff
May 31 23:42:10 <happycube> if the chip is more efficient at it that is
May 31 23:42:12 <xl0> I'm not sure if the cpu is actually capable of playing mpeg4 even at 160x240. The mentioned PXA cpus have a special multimedia coprocessor...
May 31 23:42:51 <balrog-kun> xl0: it should be capable of that
May 31 23:43:05 <balrog-kun> i doubt iwMMXt (the PXA thing) gives any real speedup
May 31 23:43:27 <happycube> i know the ti omaps have some pretty heavy accel stuff, but it's so closed it couldn't possibly be used
May 31 23:43:38 <happycube> nokia n800 has a freaking powervr in it
May 31 23:43:42 <happycube> ... and no driver
May 31 23:44:11 <balrog-kun> all iwMMXt does is lets you multiply/divide/add/substract two 32bit numbers instead of one in one cycle
May 31 23:44:37 <balrog-kun> but there's the overhead of copying the operands from normal registers to iwMMXt registers
May 31 23:44:51 <happycube> *nod*
May 31 23:44:59 <balrog-kun> happycube: it's not exactly like this, that cpu has a DSP
May 31 23:45:03 <happycube> the first x86 mmx sucked too ;)
May 31 23:45:15 <balrog-kun> the DSP is a second processor that can be programmed to do anything, and theinstruction set is standard
May 31 23:45:15 <happycube> *nod*
May 31 23:45:32 <balrog-kun> the OMAP one i mean
May 31 23:45:38 <happycube> yeah... i heard about that
May 31 23:45:43 <happycube> is there a free toolchain tho?
May 31 23:45:59 <xl0> But still, the DSP dicumentation is not publically available, I suppose...
May 31 23:46:24 <balrog-kun> happycube: not sure, there should be some since the instruction set is known
May 31 23:46:36 <balrog-kun> xl0: i believe it's documented
May 31 23:47:22 <balrog-kun> i'm saying that because i had experience with OMAP1510 which is an older chip but has a DSP of the same line, and the documentation was all there
May 31 23:47:57 <xl0> With or without NDA?
May 31 23:47:57 <aloril> xl0: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
May 31 23:48:33 <xl0> ;))
May 31 23:48:49 <balrog-kun> xl0: without (actually OMAP5910 docs were available without NDA, but 1510 and 5910 are practically identical)
Jun 01 00:08:25 <KragenSitaker> balrog-kun: cool! it's good to see TI opening up a bit
Jun 01 00:16:42 <rwhitby> balrog-kun: where did you get the OMAP5910 docs without NDA?
Jun 01 00:17:57 <balrog-kun> rwhitby: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap5910.html here
Jun 01 00:18:12 <rwhitby> cool, thx.
Jun 01 00:19:02 <balrog-kun> there are the NDAed 1510 docs circulating between some people, too, but i don't have them on my HD at the moment
Jun 01 00:19:18 <rwhitby> not interested in NDA'd doco, thanks :-)
Jun 01 00:19:35 <balrog-kun> :)
Jun 01 00:19:57 <balrog-kun> correct answer, i guess
Jun 01 00:22:50 <balrog-kun> the "Abstract" links send you to the pages for full document downloads, BTW
Jun 01 00:22:53 <balrog-kun> it may be mnisleading
Jun 01 00:37:02 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/it]]
Jun 01 00:37:58 <SpeedEvil> Is it possible to completely delete a wiki page?
Jun 01 00:38:08 <SpeedEvil> For example, one who's title is spam.
Jun 01 00:52:08 <roh> hm.. what should a 150mhz cpu be good for?
Jun 01 00:52:56 <balrog-kun> an oversized mp3 player
Jun 01 00:54:23 <parag0n> mpeg player
Jun 01 00:55:21 <roh> brrr
Jun 01 00:55:35 <roh> which has a 25us$cpu? bwahaaaaa
Jun 01 00:57:44 <SpeedEvil> 150MHz CPU - with onboard DSP
Jun 01 00:58:00 <SpeedEvil> that can do 300 MMACs
Jun 01 00:58:42 <balrog-kun> would work for a thin client to
Jun 01 00:59:11 <balrog-kun> or teaching first year programming with Turbo Pascal as the language of choise ;)
Jun 01 00:59:18 <balrog-kun> *choice
Jun 01 00:59:18 <SpeedEvil> Camera interface too.
Jun 01 00:59:30 <SpeedEvil> And USB host ports
Jun 01 00:59:32 <SpeedEvil> (1.1)
Jun 01 00:59:56 <balrog-kun> don't forget to use a black & white VGA monitor for that :)
Jun 01 01:04:05 <SpeedEvil> What's the neo processor cost?
Jun 01 01:08:00 <SpeedEvil> That one looks moderately low power.
Jun 01 01:11:45 <loufoque> roh: a calculator
Jun 01 01:28:45 <CIA-23> openmoko: 03werner * r2112 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/lowlevel_foo_qt2410.patch: board/qt2410/Makefile: add QT2410-specific lowlevel_foo
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 01 02:59:58 2007