**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 04 02:59:56 2007
Jun 04 03:05:40 <daMaestro> +1
Jun 04 03:06:55 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_UserProfile_Employee for example
Jun 04 03:33:51 <daMaestro> so, SpeedEvil, when can i spend $350
Jun 04 03:33:52 <daMaestro> ?
Jun 04 03:34:07 <SpeedEvil> The first batch of phones is in QA
Jun 04 03:34:12 <SpeedEvil> who knows.
Jun 04 03:34:27 <SpeedEvil> Maybe a couple of weeks. Maybe a week.
Jun 04 03:35:11 <daMaestro> are you a core dev?
Jun 04 03:35:49 <SpeedEvil> No
Jun 04 03:36:40 <daMaestro> i'm very interested in doing dev stuff on OM
Jun 04 03:36:57 <daMaestro> it will take about 6 months off my R&D for a few things I have been working on
Jun 04 03:37:26 <daMaestro> do you have a link to info on what OM provides, what kernel version, python, gcc? etc?
Jun 04 03:38:11 <SpeedEvil> The wiki - software
Jun 04 03:38:17 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/
Jun 04 04:30:33 <poffy> counter
Jun 04 04:30:33 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week, 2 days 07:29:23 (9.312±6.0 days) (1395;223)
Jun 04 04:36:01 <mwester> the counter... what a fascinating study in human nature -- how hope and optimism override repeated experience...
Jun 04 04:37:47 <poffy> hehe
Jun 04 04:38:27 <poffy> I've been gone for awhile, so I was hoping to get a quick update on progress
Jun 04 04:38:34 <poffy> I want to work on this thing so bad
Jun 04 04:46:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Text_Input]]
Jun 04 04:47:01 <aloril> mwester: hehe
Jun 04 04:47:28 <wehttamb> counter
Jun 04 04:47:28 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week, 2 days 07:12:28 (9.300±6.0 days) (1396;223)
Jun 04 04:49:44 <daMaestro> is anyone here US based?
Jun 04 04:49:56 <daMaestro> do we know the device to work on the GSM providers in the US?
Jun 04 04:51:00 <daMaestro> it seems tmobile and att should support the device, i'll most likely get a P1 device with some prepay GSM access to do dev work on; or am i being too optimistic about the support of this device by us carriers?
Jun 04 04:51:01 <mwester> GSM is GSM.  FCC certification has been applied for; that's probably the bigger of the problems for the US market IFAIK
Jun 04 05:05:03 <daMaestro> does anyone know if there is support for bluetooth keyboard/mouse or other input device
Jun 04 05:05:09 <daMaestro> such as headsets, etc
Jun 04 05:11:05 <roh> daMaestro ofcourse there is support
Jun 04 05:11:46 <roh> or better will be, bluez (the bluetooth-stack) supports already a lot of devices and on others there is beeing worked on
Jun 04 05:11:58 <daMaestro> ok, good; so i should be able to use ssh? (and a nice bluetooth keyboard)
Jun 04 05:12:14 <roh> jepp
Jun 04 05:12:26 <daMaestro> what about bluez-alsa?
Jun 04 05:13:19 <roh> daMaestro i dunno which exact piece of code will be the solution, but yeah. there will be a2dp as well as sco support
Jun 04 05:13:31 <daMaestro> cool
Jun 04 05:13:39 <daMaestro> hopefully no shitty broadcom chipsets
Jun 04 05:14:11 <daMaestro> they have some nasty bluetooth chipsets; i really, really hate them
Jun 04 05:16:21 <daMaestro> Manufacturer: Cambridge Silicon Radio (10) ... good
Jun 04 05:19:35 <roh> yep. its also connected via i2s to the audiocodec
Jun 04 05:22:40 <daMaestro> nice
Jun 04 05:49:06 <empty_mind> counter
Jun 04 05:49:06 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week, 2 days 06:10:50 (9.258±6.0 days) (1397;224)
Jun 04 06:46:18 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Csdexter]]
Jun 04 06:49:38 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jun 04 06:51:43 <kito|away_> 'morning
Jun 04 07:03:05 <Rince> hiho LaF0rge ;)
Jun 04 07:03:10 <Rince> and good morning
Jun 04 07:03:19 <LaF0rge> hi rince
Jun 04 07:55:40 <hrw> http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=3415
Jun 04 07:56:11 <sannes> LaF0rge: received any batches to do QA on yet? :P
Jun 04 07:57:28 <daMaestro> hrw, will OM run on that device?
Jun 04 07:58:43 <hrw> maybe one day
Jun 04 08:34:18 <Vitaly> counter
Jun 04 08:34:18 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week, 2 days 03:25:38 (9.143±6.0 days) (1398;224)
Jun 04 08:42:30 <TRIsoft> morning
Jun 04 08:46:21 <hrw> hi Mac
Jun 04 08:46:46 <TRIsoft> hi Marcin
Jun 04 08:59:04 <LuitvD> lol, the FIC Neo1973 can still beat the iPhone :)
Jun 04 09:00:09 <ecraven> counter
Jun 04 09:00:09 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week, 2 days 02:59:47 (9.125±6.0 days) (1399;224)
Jun 04 09:05:57 <ecraven> so p1+ will be the same hardware as p2?
Jun 04 09:06:17 <hrw> yes
Jun 04 09:07:23 <ecraven> very good :) then i can at last get one!
Jun 04 09:10:23 <LuitvD> iPhone release is the 29th
Jun 04 09:10:51 <LuitvD> hopefully, P1+ is nearing completion for mass production by then...
Jun 04 09:11:00 <LuitvD> but I don't think I should be that optimistic
Jun 04 09:30:17 <hrw> LuitvD: it is
Jun 04 09:30:33 <hrw> p1+ == gta02 == 20 phones currently
Jun 04 09:36:17 <LuitvD> hrw: really? :O
Jun 04 09:36:18 <LuitvD> damn
Jun 04 09:55:38 <LuitvD> hrw: I hope the 'first prototypes > mass market' time of GTA-02 isn't as long as the Bv4 's
Jun 04 11:11:21 <richard_> Hi, can I use the usbnet to access web site?
Jun 04 11:12:19 <woglinde> ?????
Jun 04 11:12:20 <xkr47> yeah
Jun 04 11:12:41 <woglinde> what has usbnet to do with html?
Jun 04 11:12:55 <xkr47> woglinde, don't overcomplexify a simple question :)
Jun 04 11:12:58 <richard_> I mean use the browser
Jun 04 11:13:07 <xkr47> it's perfectly easy to extract what he wants to know
Jun 04 11:13:23 <xkr47> richard_, sure
Jun 04 11:13:32 <woglinde> xkr47 the past shows that will be not the only question
Jun 04 11:13:36 <richard_> sorry, since i can't ping other host except my machine
Jun 04 11:13:50 <xkr47> richard_, it gives you network connection exactly like wlan or ethernet or adsl or gsm data..
Jun 04 11:14:11 <xkr47> woglinde, so how do your counter-question help ?-)
Jun 04 11:14:52 <woglinde> richard you have problems to setup usbnet?
Jun 04 11:14:55 <xkr47> it only moves the discussion off track and does generates either even more questions or makes the user tired until
Jun 04 11:14:58 <xkr47> s/until//
Jun 04 11:14:58 <apt> xkr47 meant: it only moves the discussion off track and does generates either even more questions or makes the user tired 
Jun 04 11:15:03 <mjr> richard_, sounds like a lack of default route on the Moko side
Jun 04 11:15:08 <hrw> richard_: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/03/22/hotpluging-usbnet/
Jun 04 11:15:43 * xkr47 sees that help is on its way :)
Jun 04 11:15:58 <mjr> and/or lack of routing/natting on the host side etc...
Jun 04 11:15:59 <richard_> ok, thanks, let me have a look
Jun 04 11:37:55 * SrRaven checks in for the first time in ages
Jun 04 11:38:14 <SrRaven> saw a nice iphone commercial this morning,hope the openmoko will be comparable :O
Jun 04 11:43:15 <mmp> Hello, I just read threads about tactile feedback in community@lists.openmoko.org - wouldn't help something like http://www.immersion.com/industrial/touchscreen/ ?
Jun 04 11:52:05 <Plasma_GR> so the phase 1 phones will be out on late december or something? (sarcasm, no offence)
Jun 04 11:52:32 <Plasma_GR> im waiting for the atheros chip one
Jun 04 12:01:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 589 has been created by sven-openmoko@sven.de
Jun 04 12:01:58 <cdbot2> * * HTML Tags in email notification
Jun 04 12:01:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589
Jun 04 12:41:56 <LuitvD> good morning?
Jun 04 12:42:05 <mickeyl> absolutely
Jun 04 12:42:08 <LuitvD> hehe
Jun 04 12:42:27 <mickeyl> LinuxTag was so exhausting I had to sleep a bit longer today
Jun 04 12:42:48 <LuitvD> won't call it 'a bit' :P
Jun 04 12:43:00 <LuitvD> thought I slept long this morning... :P
Jun 04 12:43:01 <hrw> mickeyl: next year I will probably be on LT too
Jun 04 12:43:32 * LuitvD hopes to visit it too
Jun 04 12:43:39 <SpeedEvil> So P1+ = GTA2 = release in september?
Jun 04 12:44:08 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: device P1+ == device P2
Jun 04 12:44:13 <SpeedEvil> Or is it to be released before then, just not to end users. Or has September been delayed
Jun 04 12:44:31 <LuitvD> SpeedEvil: release P1+ != release P2
Jun 04 12:44:33 <LuitvD> afaik
Jun 04 12:45:20 <LuitvD> release P1+ is as soon as the mass production of the hardware is running well (i guess) and P2 is as soon as the software is somewhat 'end-user ready'
Jun 04 12:51:19 <mickeyl> september release for gta02 is very unlikely
Jun 04 12:51:38 <mickeyl> we always wanted to have 6 months between p1 and p2
Jun 04 12:51:50 <mickeyl> it looks like p1 now really starts in june
Jun 04 12:51:56 <hrw> mickeyl: and iirc gta02 is now only 20 phones...
Jun 04 12:51:58 <guaqua> december :F
Jun 04 12:52:24 <mickeyl> hrw: i think 2... but even those don't count given the list of PCB changes that have already accumulated
Jun 04 12:53:17 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: Will a full datasheet for the accellerator be available? Because a partially used accellerator would be really annoying.
Jun 04 12:53:41 * koen guesses 9.8m/s^2
Jun 04 12:53:57 <hrw> or 9.71?
Jun 04 12:54:17 <SrRaven> 9.8m/s²
Jun 04 12:54:23 <SrRaven> is the gravity of earth
Jun 04 12:54:41 <guaqua> 9,80665 m/s²
Jun 04 12:54:43 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: i don't know, but OM policy has been to not build in unfree components
Jun 04 12:54:56 <mickeyl> except that GL thing cough
Jun 04 12:54:59 <mickeyl> but even that may change
Jun 04 12:55:00 * mickeyl whistles
Jun 04 12:55:01 <guaqua> but depends on where on earth you are ;)
Jun 04 12:55:10 <mickeyl> bbiab, brewing coffee
Jun 04 12:56:21 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure that I actually want an accellerator, if it adds to cost, and doesn't increase battery life when not being used as an accellerator.
Jun 04 12:57:18 <mickeyl> it might actually increase battery life
Jun 04 12:57:22 <mickeyl> overall
Jun 04 12:57:34 <guaqua> huh=
Jun 04 12:57:35 <guaqua> ?
Jun 04 12:57:47 <SpeedEvil> Do you mean it can do stuff like outputting over internal framebuffer when CPU off?
Jun 04 12:57:53 <SpeedEvil> Or in slow mode
Jun 04 12:57:58 * guaqua is thinking of power generator applications
Jun 04 12:58:00 <mickeyl> something like that
Jun 04 12:58:09 <SpeedEvil> That would be worthwhile.
Jun 04 12:58:12 <mjr> yeah, that would be nice
Jun 04 12:58:21 <mjr> gotta love more battery life
Jun 04 12:58:26 <Vegar> mickeyl: when you say six months between P1 and P2, do you imply that P1.5 is out of the picture?
Jun 04 12:58:30 <mickeyl> or given the fact that the GPU's operation may be cheaper than doing the same via CPU
Jun 04 12:58:31 <SpeedEvil> So the larger battery is for the wifi?
Jun 04 12:59:05 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: that pretty much presumes eye-candy interfaces, or movie playing though.
Jun 04 12:59:09 * mjr doesn't hate really the mpeg-4 codec there either, patent-encumbered though it is
Jun 04 12:59:20 <mickeyl> Vegar: not out of the picture. P1.5 is the moment, when GTA02 hardware is finished. Whether we start selling it at this point or just donate it to devels is NDY
Jun 04 12:59:29 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: indeed ...
Jun 04 12:59:32 <SpeedEvil> Can it be used for general purpose DSP?
Jun 04 12:59:36 <Vegar> ok
Jun 04 12:59:39 * SrRaven wonders if there are more pics out of openmoko
Jun 04 12:59:53 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: unfortunately not. We would love to have a GP DSP in future models
Jun 04 13:00:03 <SpeedEvil> For example, mp3 decoding to system RAM, and the CPU throws it to the A/D
Jun 04 13:00:03 <mickeyl> finding an open one is very hard thgouh
Jun 04 13:00:23 <SpeedEvil> the TI OMAP series looks interesting. If only the main CPU was a little faster.
Jun 04 13:00:32 <SpeedEvil> The newer ones.
Jun 04 13:01:06 <SpeedEvil> So it's probably not practical for a general purpose phone.
Jun 04 13:01:15 <mmp> hmm, what about "edsp" in armv5te ?
Jun 04 13:01:17 <SpeedEvil> As linux doesn't really understand two disparate CPUs.
Jun 04 13:01:18 <buz> OMAP is pretty closed
Jun 04 13:01:31 <SpeedEvil> I diddn't look closely.
Jun 04 13:01:37 <mmp> although part of instruction set, might be able to speed up something..
Jun 04 13:01:47 <mjr> oo, Neo killer app on community list: "Someone wrote a programme that'll emit star wars light saber noises when you swing your laptop around. It'd be cool to have something like that for the openmoko. :)
Jun 04 13:01:53 <Rince> *g*
Jun 04 13:01:58 <buz> yeah that would rock
Jun 04 13:02:16 <SpeedEvil> Probably not a core app :)
Jun 04 13:02:29 <Plasma_GR> can it be integrated into the kernel?
Jun 04 13:02:30 <mjr> and *bam*, Neo gets the Star Wars fan market
Jun 04 13:02:50 <mmp> hmm, future models should be also capable of generating real light sabre
Jun 04 13:02:55 * mmp hides :)
Jun 04 13:03:05 <Plasma_GR> that would be useful
Jun 04 13:03:17 <SpeedEvil> If you put it in Hardware:Wishlist - I'm moving it to unlikely :)
Jun 04 13:03:39 <Plasma_GR> especially if you run out of fuel with your starfighter on sith's terratory...
Jun 04 13:03:44 <buz> i'm not terribly i nfavor of using that on a laptop
Jun 04 13:03:44 <buz> the hd will hate you 
Jun 04 13:03:46 <buz> (same as for smackbook features)
Jun 04 13:04:27 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: I don't suppose you have any comparative ideas on weight? Has the larger battery made it heavier?
Jun 04 13:05:30 <Plasma_GR> weight? who cares about the weight at all?
Jun 04 13:05:37 <SpeedEvil> weight/size
Jun 04 13:05:53 <guaqua> mjr: :D
Jun 04 13:06:59 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: no idea, sorry. the only thing i've seen from gta02 is the PCB layout
Jun 04 13:07:02 <mickeyl> which is sweeeeeeeeeeet
Jun 04 13:07:09 <mickeyl> (compared to 01 which was outsourced *cough*)
Jun 04 13:07:36 <Plasma_GR> uhm when somebody will buy a phone, all the money will cover the hardware and transport? or there is a small amount going to a specific company or person/s?
Jun 04 13:07:40 <SpeedEvil> K. Which means very little to most, though can be beautiful to those who appreciate such things.
Jun 04 13:07:42 <hrw> mickeyl: still same case?
Jun 04 13:07:50 <SpeedEvil> Plasma_GR: all money goes to FIC
Jun 04 13:07:56 <SpeedEvil> FIC then employ people.
Jun 04 13:08:02 <Plasma_GR> dam, k
Jun 04 13:08:06 <SpeedEvil> Who work on the core bits.
Jun 04 13:08:15 <Plasma_GR> so the only thing we don't pay is the devs
Jun 04 13:08:22 <mickeyl> hrw: yes, we're forced to use the same case for 02
Jun 04 13:08:25 <mickeyl> 03 will get a new case
Jun 04 13:08:37 <Plasma_GR> they are getting paid with phones :)
Jun 04 13:08:38 <SpeedEvil> Any phone company can leap in at any point and start making an OpenMoko compatible phone.
Jun 04 13:09:03 <SpeedEvil> Some non-employed-by FIC devs get phones
Jun 04 13:09:25 <hrw> mickeyl: let gta03 case be 1/2 of thickness
Jun 04 13:09:37 <SpeedEvil> Only if the drop tests bear it out.
Jun 04 13:09:50 <SpeedEvil> Oh - you don't mean 1/2 the wall thickness.
Jun 04 13:10:01 <mickeyl> hrw: nod
Jun 04 13:10:15 <hrw> mickeyl: now gta01 reminds brick ;(
Jun 04 13:10:26 <SpeedEvil> And yes, I want it half the current size and weight, with a 5+1/2" disk drive slot.
Jun 04 13:10:36 <happycube> lol
Jun 04 13:10:51 <hrw> mickeyl: and if gta03 will lack keys then we will need to collect money for designer killer
Jun 04 13:10:58 <guaqua> if the walls are too thin it resembles the phones you get for 100 euros
Jun 04 13:10:59 <mjr> SpeedEvil, and it has to be 1541-compatible
Jun 04 13:11:20 <SpeedEvil> guaqua: and more importantly may break when you drop it.
Jun 04 13:11:25 <buz> will it give BJ while we're at it
Jun 04 13:11:29 * mwester sighs... and would just like to see the p1 phone ship.
Jun 04 13:11:32 <guaqua> SpeedEvil: bad user experience :)
Jun 04 13:11:34 <buz> (THAT would sell for sure)
Jun 04 13:11:35 <SpeedEvil> Me too.
Jun 04 13:11:43 <SpeedEvil> err - the ship comment.
Jun 04 13:11:44 <hrw> mwester: me too
Jun 04 13:11:46 <mjr> yes, give me p1 or give me death
Jun 04 13:11:51 <mjr> or, on second thought
Jun 04 13:11:52 * hrw want apps for gta01
Jun 04 13:11:53 <mjr> just give me p1
Jun 04 13:12:11 <happycube> are the chinese-made gta01's looking ok?
Jun 04 13:12:11 <hrw> gnumeric, abiword looks ok
Jun 04 13:12:24 <Plasma_GR> what does gta01 mean?
Jun 04 13:12:30 <mickeyl> happycube: we'll test in 5 days
Jun 04 13:12:31 <happycube> the first hardware revision
Jun 04 13:12:33 <happycube> cool
Jun 04 13:12:38 <Plasma_GR> k
Jun 04 13:12:51 <happycube> gta02 has, afaik, a newer cpu, wifi, possibly? video acceleration
Jun 04 13:13:00 <happycube> ^ mickeyl knows much more than me ;)
Jun 04 13:13:09 <hrw> more flash too
Jun 04 13:13:17 <mickeyl> let me dig out that slide
Jun 04 13:13:28 <hrw> mickeyl: there was no space for 1-4-8GB of nand?
Jun 04 13:14:07 <hrw> mickeyl: GTA02 'the ipod^Wiphone killer'
Jun 04 13:14:18 <mickeyl> :D
Jun 04 13:14:23 <koen> jffs2 doesn't support >4GB
Jun 04 13:14:27 <koen> 32bit pointers
Jun 04 13:14:41 <guaqua> lvm!
Jun 04 13:14:41 <koen> and you don't want to use jffs2 on >128MB anyway
Jun 04 13:14:44 <hrw> koen: 2 partitions or yaffs
Jun 04 13:14:45 <koen> logfs ftw
Jun 04 13:15:04 <koen> hrw: I don't trust yaffs(2)
Jun 04 13:15:08 <mjr> well, hopefully logfs will get stable sometime...
Jun 04 13:15:18 <mickeyl> http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8662-slide.JPG.html
Jun 04 13:15:56 <mjr> 256 M internal flash on the GTA-02 seems an okay improvement, at least it'll fit a lot more "core" apps
Jun 04 13:16:13 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: 2 or 3 axis accelerometer?
Jun 04 13:16:17 <mjr> (crossing fingers for python)
Jun 04 13:16:19 <happycube> microsd is dirt cheap now... costco in the us is selling 2gb of [slow] sandisk for $37
Jun 04 13:16:37 <SpeedEvil> I'd prefer a buried microSD slot.
Jun 04 13:16:43 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: 2 individual, to get 3 axis
Jun 04 13:16:46 <happycube> gta01 has one already ;)
Jun 04 13:16:46 <SpeedEvil> Rather than as much flash as we can jam on.
Jun 04 13:16:48 <mickeyl> iir
Jun 04 13:16:50 <mickeyl> c
Jun 04 13:17:16 <mjr> SpeedEvil, it would be handy
Jun 04 13:17:17 <SpeedEvil> mickeyl: Odd decision - I thought the AD thing used in the WII was cheapest. Maybe not I guess.
Jun 04 13:17:28 <guaqua> mjr: i'm rooting for python aswell
Jun 04 13:17:42 <happycube> since there's only one sensor in the wii it has some limitations
Jun 04 13:18:10 <SpeedEvil> Exactly the same limitations as 2 2 axis accellerometers though.
Jun 04 13:18:16 <SpeedEvil> Well - on a phone sized device.
Jun 04 13:18:19 <happycube> gta02 sounds incredibly sweet
Jun 04 13:18:42 <SpeedEvil> You can't do meaningful sums on the differences in accelleration between the two to extract angular rate or anything.
Jun 04 13:18:49 <happycube> *nod*
Jun 04 13:18:53 <Plasma_GR> do you have any idea of how will gta02 cost?
Jun 04 13:19:14 <SpeedEvil> The only meaningful thing you might be able to do is to remove one axes of camera shake :)
Jun 04 13:22:10 <happycube> i agree - from what i hear of the iphone specs gta02 is a match (aside from flash space, but that's no big deal for me :)
Jun 04 13:22:26 <happycube> i wonder if iphone even has a graphics accelerator
Jun 04 13:23:36 <happycube> it sounds like they're heavily using llvm on the arm
Jun 04 13:24:31 <guaqua> are there any ready solutions for doing stuff with the 3d accelerator?
Jun 04 13:24:51 <guaqua> i.e. is there something that could be used straight away on the platform?
Jun 04 13:25:25 <mjr> it would be nice to know if that's expected to feature opengl (me) acceleration from the get-go
Jun 04 13:25:32 <mjr> free, of course
Jun 04 13:26:34 <mjr> but still, for now, p1 please :]
Jun 04 13:27:07 <guaqua> :)
Jun 04 13:27:12 <mickeyl> ya, one step after another. 02 is hold anyway until 01 MP works 
Jun 04 13:27:17 <mickeyl> s/hold/held/
Jun 04 13:27:17 <apt> mickeyl meant: ya, one step after another. 02 is held anyway until 01 MP works 
Jun 04 13:27:47 <guaqua> what's MP in this context?
Jun 04 13:27:55 <guaqua> platform?
Jun 04 13:32:34 <mickeyl> mass production
Jun 04 13:34:57 <happycube> i'm trying to decide if i've been osbourne effected on the gta01 or not ;)
Jun 04 13:36:01 <happycube> with a 6-month gap, probably not
Jun 04 13:37:38 <mickeyl> yeah
Jun 04 13:37:52 <mickeyl> besides... i'm still positive we'll find something to reward the early adopters
Jun 04 13:39:45 <happycube> k
Jun 04 13:39:48 <happycube> and cool :)
Jun 04 13:40:05 <mickey|bbiab> bbiab
Jun 04 13:40:17 <mickey|bbiab> electrician is here to move some power outlets before the kitchen arrives next week
Jun 04 13:40:22 <mickey|bbiab> need to supervise that :D
Jun 04 13:40:42 <parag0n> mickey|bbiab, is there any news on the runs that were meant to happen last week?
Jun 04 13:41:07 <mickey|bbiab> no, we'll know next week, when we QA 10% of the production
Jun 04 13:41:10 <mickey|bbiab> need to run now
Jun 04 13:43:44 <Herod2k> hi guys
Jun 04 13:44:03 <mwester> mickey|bbiab: watch that electrician carefuly - the last one that worked on my kitchen opened a shared neutral, and blew out my UPS and my microwave oven.  :(
Jun 04 13:44:11 <Herod2k> how can i add a new language to the wiki?
Jun 04 13:45:23 <Herod2k> if i write this {{Languages|Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973}} in the wiki i see the language bar, but how can i add a language to the language bar?
Jun 04 13:45:55 <Herod2k> *languages bar
Jun 04 13:47:52 <balrog-kun> Herod2k: aiui if you start editing Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/whatever, "whatever" will appear in the language bar for that page
Jun 04 13:48:31 <Herod2k> no
Jun 04 13:48:42 <Herod2k> i'have added /it page
Jun 04 13:48:51 <Herod2k> but i don't see italian
Jun 04 13:48:56 <Herod2k> in the languages bar
Jun 04 13:49:38 <Herod2k> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/it
Jun 04 13:50:47 <balrog-kun> Herod2k: how about if you add {{Languages....}} in the /it page too?
Jun 04 13:51:20 <balrog-kun> brb
Jun 04 13:51:43 <Herod2k> yes i've just added the languages bar
Jun 04 13:51:55 <Herod2k> but i don't see italian button
Jun 04 13:52:19 <Herod2k> if you refresh the page now you can see the languages bar
Jun 04 13:53:28 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2146 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (files/session openmoko-session_svn.bb): oe/openmoko-base: delay playing the startup sound until most of the UI shows
Jun 04 14:00:31 <Herod2k> balrog-kun, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Template:Languages
Jun 04 14:00:35 <Herod2k> i found it
Jun 04 14:01:32 <balrog-kun> Herod2k: cool
Jun 04 14:01:52 <hena> haha
Jun 04 14:01:56 <hena> MokoMakefile
Jun 04 14:02:02 <hena> had to laugh
Jun 04 14:10:03 <jsheldon> in the OM changelog for 2007-03-06 I see something regarding "bitbake modifications" that put svn rev numbers in PR, does anyone know if/when that will be included in bitbake official?
Jun 04 14:11:00 <hrw> jsheldon: if their bitbake hacker will provide us nice patch for it...
Jun 04 14:11:15 <hrw> now OM bitbake is .... fscking slow
Jun 04 14:11:36 <jsheldon> hrw: ah, slow is bad
Jun 04 14:11:43 <hrw> normal bitbake use cache during 2nd and next runs. OM bitbake is slow each time
Jun 04 14:12:04 <jsheldon> hrw: but this change is something I've been trying to get working for myself
Jun 04 14:12:17 <jsheldon> hrw: yikes, that's no good
Jun 04 14:12:21 <hrw> jsheldon: I do not know how often you use bitbake but for me it is most used command and if I have to wait few minutes each time...
Jun 04 14:12:51 <jsheldon> hrw: yeah that would have a significant impact
Jun 04 14:14:25 <jsheldon> hrw: I wonder if this patch includes what I'm looking for http://people.openmoko.org/henryk/bitbake-1.6.6-om2.patch
Jun 04 14:14:49 <jsheldon> hrw: I'll take a look
Jun 04 14:14:50 <hrw> iirc yes
Jun 04 14:14:59 <hrw> bitbake 1.6 is prehistoric now
Jun 04 14:18:21 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Usually Rivendell, but if that's too tiresome, I'm in germany. ;o)
Jun 04 14:18:51 <Elrond> hrw - Doesn't openmoko prefer bitbake 1.6.*?
Jun 04 14:19:20 <hrw> Elrond: just because 1.8 was not released at that time
Jun 04 14:19:29 <Elrond> hrw - Ahh.
Jun 04 14:20:19 <hrw> and they hacked 1.6 so much that prefer to keep it as it works, then update to 1.8 (as this will also req update of OE)
Jun 04 14:20:19 <Elrond> hmm, even Debian has bitbake 1.8.2
Jun 04 14:20:22 <Elrond> ... in testing.
Jun 04 14:20:59 <Elrond> hrw - Ahh. I hope they once will unfreeze OE and bitbake...
Jun 04 14:21:52 <Elrond> Hi pavelm!
Jun 04 14:21:55 <koen> hrw: and the OM bitbake can't do offline builds anymore
Jun 04 14:22:24 * SpeedEvil tries to remember why he asked.
Jun 04 14:22:30 <SpeedEvil> ->elrond
Jun 04 14:23:05 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: Ah - was just that I've got a couple of 'free' SIMs I could have posted you if you were in UK.
Jun 04 14:23:42 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Ahh. ;-))
Jun 04 14:25:07 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Well, if I actually manage to enter the shopping world in germany (which wont happen before next week, it shouldn't be that expensive to get one. But really, I do care more about the gps. ;)
Jun 04 14:26:39 <Kero> so... You haven't sold all P1s while I was on holiday :)
Jun 04 14:27:06 <Elrond> koen - Huh?
Jun 04 14:27:47 <koen> Elrond: it contacts all svn repos during parsing
Jun 04 14:27:52 <koen> that's why it's so slow
Jun 04 14:28:02 <Elrond> koen - *arg*
Jun 04 14:28:57 <Elrond> I really should setup my box to be more restrictive on network connections.
Jun 04 14:29:34 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Jun 04 14:29:37 <pavelm> Hi, Elrond!
Jun 04 14:29:55 <hrw> hi pavelm 
Jun 04 14:30:13 <pavelm> Hi, hrw.
Jun 04 14:30:21 <pavelm> are the p1's actually on sale now
Jun 04 14:30:22 <pavelm> ?
Jun 04 14:30:24 * SpeedEvil notices the EU ruling on mobile phone rates may in some limited cases make it cheaper to buy a foreign SIM.
Jun 04 14:30:26 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: no
Jun 04 14:30:27 <hrw> not yet pavelm 
Jun 04 14:30:36 <SpeedEvil> Week or three?
Jun 04 14:30:56 <Elrond> I'd say at east two weeks.
Jun 04 14:31:06 <Elrond> s/east/least
Jun 04 14:31:12 <hrw> pavelm: no plans to write application which will give infos about GPS in readable format?
Jun 04 14:31:20 <SpeedEvil> infos about GPS?
Jun 04 14:31:42 <SpeedEvil> You can get NMEA out of the included binary.
Jun 04 14:31:49 <SpeedEvil> Which can then be parsed by anything.
Jun 04 14:31:59 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - he probably means "your current coordiantes"; "visible sats", that sort of fun.
Jun 04 14:32:01 <hrw> SpeedEvil: for me NMEA is like binary 
Jun 04 14:32:13 <SpeedEvil> It's really easy to parse.
Jun 04 14:32:16 <hrw> I cant parse NMEA without spec in other hand
Jun 04 14:32:33 <Elrond> hrw - gpsd has client tools.
Jun 04 14:32:48 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 04 14:32:50 <hrw> which expects stream from gpsd?
Jun 04 14:32:51 <Elrond> hrw - Even a (x) gui thing, that shows the stas somehow.
Jun 04 14:33:19 <Elrond> hrw - I guess, you can point gpsd at the named pipe of gllin.
Jun 04 14:33:49 <pavelm> hrw: Well... If I figure out how to do development for openmoko, I'll write now.
Jun 04 14:34:17 <pavelm> hrw: I was hoping to get python / pygtk working, but that seems distant goal :-(
Jun 04 14:34:37 <pavelm> hrw: grep GGA on nmea, it produces coordinates in very readable form.
Jun 04 14:35:03 <pavelm> hrw: ...or it should be easy to cross-compile xgps. That even shows sattelites.
Jun 04 14:35:24 <hrw> ok
Jun 04 14:36:03 <SpeedEvil> http://pastehere.com/?btjkxo for example
Jun 04 14:36:48 <hrw> thx
Jun 04 14:37:09 <SpeedEvil> trivial awk script to output date/hour/decimal lat/long
Jun 04 14:37:26 <hrw> if there is a fix
Jun 04 14:39:08 <pavelm> hrw: If there's no fix, coordinates are simply missing from the output.
Jun 04 14:39:18 <pavelm> hrw: but really, xgps is reasonable way to go.
Jun 04 14:39:25 <kiney> counter
Jun 04 14:39:37 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - xgps is quite handy.
Jun 04 14:40:05 <njpatel> Hmm, the network seems to go down when the screensaver comes on in the latest build
Jun 04 14:40:35 <pavelm> njpatel: Well, whole system seems to go down on phase0 hardware when screensaver comes ;-)
Jun 04 14:41:32 <Elrond> pavelm - I have python on "my" P0 working. I use it to play binary fun with the gps chip.
Jun 04 14:41:41 <njpatel> pavelm: ah, yes, sometimes its seems to come back up, but other times (like right now), I get a blicking cursor, taunting me :)
Jun 04 14:42:42 <Elrond> Huh, screensaver works nicely for me.
Jun 04 14:42:44 <Elrond> (on p0)
Jun 04 14:43:10 <Elrond> pavelm - If my machine has nothing else to do, I'll build pygtk. ;-)
Jun 04 14:45:08 <hena> are there any other openmoko irc channels?
Jun 04 14:45:27 <mjr> there is the mostly-dead #openmoko-fi
Jun 04 14:45:48 <pavelm> Elrond: Thanks :-)
Jun 04 14:46:02 <pavelm> does the latest snapshot actually do calls?
Jun 04 14:46:18 <pavelm> it plays some tune on X startup, but that's about it. It does not show signal.
Jun 04 14:47:04 <Elrond> pavelm - We tried Rince's SIM at GPN. Which was PIN-lcked, and there was not much from the GUI to expect.
Jun 04 14:48:31 <Elrond> BTW: Did anyone get the neo connected to a windows?
Jun 04 14:48:36 <pavelm> ugh... the screensaver timeout is _way_ too low. Like "click contacts, and moko autosleeps before they are loaded"
Jun 04 14:49:14 <Elrond> Okay.... Now I know, why I keep my old rootfs. ;)
Jun 04 14:49:24 <Rince> *G*
Jun 04 14:50:41 <nnpiggy> counter
Jun 04 14:50:44 <Elrond> BTW: If anyone near Darmstadt (or FFM) wants to try (or possibly toast) his SIM in a P0.... ;o)
Jun 04 14:50:57 <Elrond> nnpiggy - aloril is offline.
Jun 04 14:52:03 <nnpiggy> I see. Oh well. If we had a truely interested answer it would be all over this room :-).
Jun 04 14:53:26 <Elrond> nnpiggy - What do you mean?
Jun 04 14:53:53 <Elrond> pavelm - If you want my python (pygtk later maybe) .ipk, just let me know
Jun 04 14:54:08 <nnpiggy> I have friends who would like to buy hardware.
Jun 04 14:54:35 <SpeedEvil> nnpiggy: going to be several weeks
Jun 04 14:54:39 <SpeedEvil> maybe 2-3
Jun 04 14:54:46 <kiney> counter
Jun 04 14:54:56 <kiney> ist the counter broken?
Jun 04 14:54:56 <pavelm> Elrond: I'll wait for pygtk ;-)
Jun 04 14:55:09 <hrw> aloril is not here kiney 
Jun 04 14:55:10 <Elrond> pavelm - Okay. :)
Jun 04 14:55:10 <pavelm> elrond: I already got python to work, but that does not help with gui development.
Jun 04 14:55:36 <Elrond> pavelm - Yeah. python works nicely on my p0.
Jun 04 14:56:06 <Elrond> I also compiled $EDITOR, so I can now "develop" via ssh on the phone. ;-)
Jun 04 14:56:41 <pavelm> elrond: I develop with scp... but writing programs in shell is bad, and having no usable ui is bad, too.
Jun 04 14:56:55 <Elrond> Yeah.
Jun 04 14:57:09 <Elrond> pavelm - Did you try nfs instead of scp?
Jun 04 14:57:20 <pavelm> elrond: No, not yet.
Jun 04 14:57:31 <Elrond> (that's on my list. Setting up nfs server on my desktop and mounting my devel tree on the phone)
Jun 04 14:58:19 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2147 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/ (task-base.bb task-openmoko.bb): 
Jun 04 14:58:19 <CIA-24> openmoko: oe/task-base: add to overlay and bump (as per hrw's request)
Jun 04 14:58:19 <CIA-24> openmoko: oe/task-openmoko: bump
Jun 04 14:58:34 <pavelm> elrond: That should be doable. I did something like that with other embedded boards.
Jun 04 14:59:25 <Elrond> mickey|bbiab - BTW: You saw the GUI bug on mb-desktop-2?
Jun 04 15:01:25 <pavelm> ...I do not see the screensaver logic. Now it suspended one second after I clicked.
Jun 04 15:01:32 <pavelm> ...anyway, I guess I'll have to go.
Jun 04 15:03:27 <Elrond> pavelm - Have a nice evening. :-)
Jun 04 15:03:30 <Elrond> <-- getting home now.
Jun 04 15:05:05 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2148 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: 
Jun 04 15:05:05 <CIA-24> openmoko: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: disable pm until tslib-grab has been removed
Jun 04 15:05:05 <CIA-24> openmoko: (we're not getting any ts events)
Jun 04 15:10:11 * Herod2k deve uscire
Jun 04 15:12:52 <pavelm> bye, Elrond
Jun 04 15:23:44 * koen just noticed his own neo in http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8662-slide.JPG.html
Jun 04 15:24:44 <prpplague> koen: hehe s3c2442/400 based?
Jun 04 15:24:48 <koen> and the my other neo on the next slide :)
Jun 04 15:24:51 <prpplague> koen: i assume thats a typo
Jun 04 15:25:01 <koen> prpplague: no, I still have gta01s
Jun 04 15:25:20 <prpplague> koen: no i mean in the slide, the gta-02 
Jun 04 15:25:39 <koen> I suspect s3c2442 at 400Mhz
Jun 04 15:25:50 <drath> oh, nice
Jun 04 15:26:14 <prpplague> koen: ahh
Jun 04 15:27:13 <prpplague> koen: yea, the 2442 is going to drive up the production cost of the pcb but FIC probably has the resources for that
Jun 04 15:28:55 <prpplague> koen: still wish someone at FIC would respond to emails regarding OEM versions of the neo series
Jun 04 15:28:59 <hrw> koen: why you think that this is your neo?
Jun 04 15:32:23 <koen> hrw: because I took those pictures :)
Jun 04 15:32:39 <hrw> ;)
Jun 04 15:32:44 <PBeck> hi
Jun 04 15:33:02 <koen> mickeyl asked for them a while back
Jun 04 15:34:08 <hena> seems like this first version of openmoko is no too strict on anything
Jun 04 15:34:17 <hena> or first versions
Jun 04 15:36:13 <happycube> i could see the neo's main PCB - or something very similar - being a very useful embedded board
Jun 04 15:37:08 <happycube> gps+gprs = compact tracking system
Jun 04 15:38:14 <prpplague> happycube: intergration as a industrial handheld with barcode and/or rfid
Jun 04 15:38:21 <happycube> ooohyeah that too
Jun 04 15:38:31 <hena> i don't really see a point in having both awk and sed in there
Jun 04 15:38:41 <hena> but i guess sed isn't that big and it's popular
Jun 04 15:38:42 <happycube> fedex and ups already use winmob units, afaik
Jun 04 15:38:52 <prpplague> would need a bigger battery and a slightly large lcd, but otherwise you could use the main board
Jun 04 15:39:45 <happycube> yeah - there are a lot of ways to (re)use it
Jun 04 15:42:08 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2149 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (openmoko-icon-theme-standard_svn.bb openmoko-session_svn.bb): 
Jun 04 15:42:08 <CIA-24> openmoko: oe/openmoko-session: bump
Jun 04 15:42:08 <CIA-24> openmoko: oe/openmoko-icon-theme-standard: call gtk-icon-cache in postinst
Jun 04 15:43:51 * buz still thinks fic should sell standalone boards
Jun 04 15:44:00 <buz> esp when it can speak usb2
Jun 04 15:44:18 <buz> maybe even drop the gsm for that
Jun 04 15:44:23 <buz> it would make  nice little mini server
Jun 04 15:44:40 <Vegar> or car computer
Jun 04 15:44:55 <prpplague> buz: yea, oem version would be nice 
Jun 04 15:45:19 <prpplague> there are some nice 2410 based boards going to be available soon
Jun 04 15:45:30 <buz> i'd much rather have a 2442
Jun 04 15:45:42 <buz> but a really cheap 2410 with sata woulod rock
Jun 04 15:46:01 <buz> i wonder if you could turn the wifi neo into a wifi router
Jun 04 15:46:15 <prpplague> buz: going to have a hard time finding a cheap 2442, 2440 maybe
Jun 04 15:46:21 <prpplague> buz: 2410 with sata? why?
Jun 04 15:46:42 <buz> NAS
Jun 04 15:47:05 <koen> you want an IOP or Orion for that
Jun 04 15:47:11 <prpplague> yea
Jun 04 15:47:22 <buz> for 100mbit the 2410 should do
Jun 04 15:47:31 <prpplague> buz: s3c24xx isn't really designed for that
Jun 04 15:47:42 <koen> maybe even an IXP
Jun 04 15:47:51 <prpplague> buz: maybe a cirrus logic or IOP/IXP would be better
Jun 04 15:48:21 <koen> if you use a cirrus cpu you get to lart brian austin as well
Jun 04 15:49:59 * amarsh04 still doesn't forgive cirrus logic for their silicon that went into the telebit fastblazer 8840 modem
Jun 04 15:50:43 <buz> my first pc had a cirrus logic vga card
Jun 04 15:50:57 <buz> i think these days qemu emulates that one ;)
Jun 04 15:51:03 <amarsh04> i'm still using a cirrus logic vga card
Jun 04 15:52:42 <buz> yeah so do i, in kvm ;)
Jun 04 15:53:39 * amarsh04 wonders how open the specs will be for the gpu in the gta02
Jun 04 15:54:41 <SpeedEvil> The 640*480 display relaxes it a bit.
Jun 04 15:54:54 <amarsh04> back soon...
Jun 04 15:55:28 * balrog-kun doesn't think there will be a gpu
Jun 04 15:55:50 <Vegar> why not?
Jun 04 15:56:08 <SpeedEvil> Done right - it could have benefits.
Jun 04 15:56:15 <thomasg_> the new openmoko video at google video is great
Jun 04 15:56:25 <Vegar> link?
Jun 04 15:56:31 <balrog-kun> because there was no mention of it anywhere in the design and i believe it would be useless and a waste of all kind of resources
Jun 04 15:56:49 <thomasg_> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984
Jun 04 15:56:54 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: Done right - it could mean that you can turn the CPU to slow mode, and carry on displaying stuff.
Jun 04 15:57:05 <Vegar> thanks
Jun 04 15:57:24 <koen> balrog-kun: http://www.vanille-media.de/misc/openmoko-lt2007.pdf page 22
Jun 04 15:57:27 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: This can help a fair bit - as it means just scrolling through an ebook, the CPU can stay at 12Mhz.
Jun 04 15:57:37 <thomasg_> and the new hardware infos are fantastic!
Jun 04 15:57:38 <SpeedEvil> Or even turn off.
Jun 04 15:57:43 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: all the GPUs i've seen only accelerate drawing primitives (3d and 2d)
Jun 04 15:57:50 <koen> "2D/3D Beschleuniger" == "2D/3D accelerator"
Jun 04 15:58:03 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: there are reports that it can also output from an internal framebuffer to the LCD
Jun 04 15:58:06 <thomasg_> 256 mb flash, 128 mb ram, 400 mhz samsung arm, opengl es 2d/3d accelerator, accelerometers (2x 3D)
Jun 04 15:58:21 <SpeedEvil> thomasg_: 2*2D accellerometers
Jun 04 15:58:32 <thomasg_> SpeedEvil, no
Jun 04 15:58:36 <thomasg_> just a moment please
Jun 04 15:58:37 <balrog-kun> *downloading the PDF*
Jun 04 15:58:50 <SpeedEvil> thomasg_: That's what mickey-l said earlier.
Jun 04 15:58:59 <prpplague> SpeedEvil: interesting, they going to use that for screen control?
Jun 04 15:59:00 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: it's a puff-sheet.
Jun 04 15:59:07 <SpeedEvil> prpplague: possibly.
Jun 04 15:59:34 <SpeedEvil> 14:16 <mickeyl> SpeedEvil: 2 individual, to get 3 axis
Jun 04 16:00:38 <prpplague> SpeedEvil: yea, i've used some of the ones from sparkfun in proof of concept designs
Jun 04 16:00:52 <thomasg_> SpeedEvil, don't know. on the mailinglists there are different informations
Jun 04 16:01:02 <SpeedEvil> Not seen.
Jun 04 16:01:16 <SpeedEvil> community?
Jun 04 16:01:21 <mickeyl> don't nail me on that accels
Jun 04 16:01:31 <mickeyl> i'm not an expert in this area :)
Jun 04 16:01:44 <mickeyl> besides, it's preliminary anyway
Jun 04 16:01:46 <SpeedEvil> K.
Jun 04 16:02:00 <Nebukadneza> hi
Jun 04 16:02:06 <balrog-kun> koen: nice
Jun 04 16:02:09 <thomasg_> SpeedEvil, yes, community
Jun 04 16:02:23 <Nebukadneza> were there any news about the P1 device in the lase 3-4 weeks? :(
Jun 04 16:02:26 <thomasg_> thread: "Neo1973 Update!" (the second one, not the original)
Jun 04 16:02:28 * balrog-kun takes out his first argument about lack of GPU
Jun 04 16:02:31 <prpplague> SpeedEvil: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=692
Jun 04 16:02:46 <SpeedEvil> prpplague: I know about accellerometers.
Jun 04 16:02:57 <SpeedEvil> including how to spell them.
Jun 04 16:03:00 <SpeedEvil> s/ll/l/
Jun 04 16:03:01 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: including how to spel them.
Jun 04 16:03:05 <koen> balrog-kun: I'm hoping for clutter :)
Jun 04 16:03:29 <thomasg_> well, at least we can say the neo is getting better and better :)
Jun 04 16:03:31 <balrog-kun> koen: me too
Jun 04 16:03:34 <SpeedEvil> 2 accellerometers - measuring the same axes don't really do much in a small device.
Jun 04 16:03:38 <prpplague> SpeedEvil: hehe, yea, i was just saying thats the one i used for a PoC design
Jun 04 16:03:38 <Nebukadneza> thomasg_: where?
Jun 04 16:03:50 <thomasg_> Nebukadneza, what do you mean?
Jun 04 16:03:52 <SpeedEvil> All silicon accellerometers are _HORRIBLY_ drifty.
Jun 04 16:04:07 <Nebukadneza> 18:00 < thomasg_> thread: "Neo1973 Update!" (the second one, not the original)
Jun 04 16:04:20 <thomasg_> but I'm wondering about the informations: they say the new hardware will be available in phase 2 - but phase 2 should have the same hardware than phase 1+, shouldn't it?
Jun 04 16:04:34 <SpeedEvil> You need to put them in an oven at .01C or so to get any sort of use with multiple accellerometers in the same device picking up differential acellerations.l
Jun 04 16:04:36 <thomasg_> Nebukadneza, mom, I read the mailinglist in gmail, not the webarchive :)
Jun 04 16:04:48 <Nebukadneza> ah, mailinglist, ok ;P
Jun 04 16:06:00 * balrog-kun wonders what is the G(PE)^2 trying to say
Jun 04 16:06:05 <thomasg_> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005549.html
Jun 04 16:06:09 <thomasg_> here you see
Jun 04 16:06:21 <thomasg_> I posted the link to the google video above, maybe we can verify this :)
Jun 04 16:06:58 <Nebukadneza> hm well - "we" need a device first ;/
Jun 04 16:08:18 <thomasg_> I meant verify by watchin the video
Jun 04 16:08:24 <thomasg_> but having a device would be cool, too :)
Jun 04 16:09:11 <Nebukadneza> i mean like before thinking about cool applications using a accellerometers ... finally releasing P1 would be way more important
Jun 04 16:09:51 <SpeedEvil> I have doubts as to 2 3 axes - there is little reason for it. It can only pick up the overall 3 axes gravity field, and the relative motion of a line between them.
Jun 04 16:10:00 <thomasg_> imho the best thing would be, not to waste time with p1 but release p1+ now! :)
Jun 04 16:10:10 <SpeedEvil> The relative motion is _Very_ insensitive.
Jun 04 16:10:24 <SpeedEvil> And it can only pick up quite fast motion.
Jun 04 16:13:06 <SpeedEvil> s/motion/rotation/
Jun 04 16:13:07 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: And it can only pick up quite fast rotation.
Jun 04 16:14:20 <guaqua> SpeedEvil: sensitive enough to get the light saber sounds going?
Jun 04 16:14:44 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 04 16:15:24 <SpeedEvil> For example - with a rotation of 1 per 3 seconds, and a seperation of the sensors, the differential accelleration is 4mm/s^2
Jun 04 16:15:37 <SpeedEvil> s/ors/ors of 5cm/
Jun 04 16:15:37 <apt> SpeedEvil meant: For example - with a rotation of 1 per 3 seconds, and a seperation of the sensors of 5cm, the differential accelleration is 4mm/s^2
Jun 04 16:15:47 <SpeedEvil> s/5/10/
Jun 04 16:16:15 <SpeedEvil> 4mm/s^2 is compared to the gravity it's probably experiencing of around 10000mm^2/s
Jun 04 16:16:32 <SpeedEvil> So you need really good linearity and matching.
Jun 04 16:16:54 <guaqua> what technology does wii remote use?
Jun 04 16:16:54 <SpeedEvil> Not to mention 13 bit or so or better A/D.
Jun 04 16:17:08 <SpeedEvil> It's an AD part - 3 axis
Jun 04 16:17:19 <SpeedEvil> $5 per at 1K
Jun 04 16:18:18 <SpeedEvil> The nice solution would be one of these, and 3 axis semiconductor gyros. But these run around $100 for 3 in 1s.
Jun 04 16:18:51 <SpeedEvil> The almost as nice solution would be a 3 axis compass - which is $15 or so in 1s.
Jun 04 16:19:05 <Vegar> compass?
Jun 04 16:19:28 <SpeedEvil> A device to measure the magnetic field of earth at a location, and resolve it to a direction indication.
Jun 04 16:19:50 <Vegar> well, yeah, but..
Jun 04 16:20:00 <mmp> SpeedEvil: but ou could not take your favourite moko phone to the NASA moon base:-)
Jun 04 16:20:10 <mmp> at least, functionality would be limited:)
Jun 04 16:20:22 <mmp> hmm, but with accelerometers too... :)
Jun 04 16:20:29 <SpeedEvil> You'd need a 1.5m dish to plug into the GPS port too.
Jun 04 16:20:31 * mmp is quiet:)
Jun 04 16:20:45 <mmp> :-))
Jun 04 16:26:03 <cloly> so ... i read quite a lot about this phone .... and now I am even more confused
Jun 04 16:26:31 <cloly> when would i be able to buy it. soon or on september ?
Jun 04 16:26:36 <cloly> in September **
Jun 04 16:26:53 <cjb> soon, in a few weeks, for $350.
Jun 04 16:27:00 <lrak> phones will fall like leaves
Jun 04 16:27:06 <cloly> :D
Jun 04 16:27:23 <lrak> s/fall/pour
Jun 04 16:27:25 <cloly> well i have a few more quesitons. may i ask ?
Jun 04 16:28:04 <cloly> ok, i will :) 
Jun 04 16:29:02 <cloly> first - i'm really interested will there be some kind of hands free going with the phone or would we be able to buy separately
Jun 04 16:30:00 <guaqua> cloly: it's probably included...
Jun 04 16:30:12 <guaqua> and you can add pretty much any bluetooth-one
Jun 04 16:30:35 <cloly> next, if i buy it online how it is gonna be shiped. will there be any kind of european online market .... or just tell me who should i ask :) 
Jun 04 16:30:48 <cloly> guaqua, thank you
Jun 04 16:31:09 <cloly> but i think i read, that this model won't have blue tooth
Jun 04 16:31:10 <guaqua> you should hang around here for a while
Jun 04 16:31:20 <guaqua> this does have bluetooth, but no wifi
Jun 04 16:31:20 <cloly> i would ;)
Jun 04 16:31:27 <cloly> mhm
Jun 04 16:31:32 <cloly> i see ;)
Jun 04 16:31:40 <cloly> that;s pretty perfect.
Jun 04 16:31:54 <cloly> but i still prefere wired hands-free
Jun 04 16:32:27 <cloly> i don't want all these waves straight through my brain :)
Jun 04 16:33:30 <guaqua> :)
Jun 04 16:37:42 <Hopscotch> hiho
Jun 04 17:19:05 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2150 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/openmoko-icon-theme-standard_svn.bb: oe/openmoko-icon-theme-standard: fix postinst
Jun 04 18:20:02 <BrianHV> apologies if this is a silly question, but should it be possible to use a neo1973 as a usb network device?
Jun 04 18:21:47 <Sufflope> counter
Jun 04 18:22:35 <Sufflope> oh, no counter anymore :)
Jun 04 18:22:40 <SpeedEvil> It is by default a USB network device
Jun 04 18:22:45 <BrianHV> nice
Jun 04 18:22:48 <SpeedEvil> you talk to it over ssh/foo
Jun 04 18:23:01 <SpeedEvil> you can setup routes to the interweb from your computer if you want.
Jun 04 18:23:06 <SpeedEvil> If you've got GPRS up.
Jun 04 18:23:12 <BrianHV> excellent
Jun 04 18:23:17 <SpeedEvil> Or even via bluetooth.
Jun 04 18:23:30 <BrianHV> and apologies if this is an even sillier question, but what's the counter counting? ;)
Jun 04 18:23:39 <SpeedEvil> Nothing.
Jun 04 18:23:42 <SpeedEvil> It's pointless.
Jun 04 18:23:57 <BrianHV> just as I suspected...
Jun 04 18:23:59 <SpeedEvil> Random interpretations of vague off-hand comments.
Jun 04 18:24:06 <SpeedEvil> There has been no announcement.
Jun 04 18:24:52 * BrianHV is getting psyched, especially with the v2 specs...
Jun 04 18:24:54 <mjr> it's not pointless
Jun 04 18:24:57 <mjr> it gives our lives meaning
Jun 04 18:25:15 <BrianHV> and also, because I finally got the code to start building this weekend
Jun 04 18:32:39 <barmeier> hi
Jun 04 18:35:08 <Elrond> Oh well... does nobody handle SIGCHLD proberely and clean up childs?!
Jun 04 18:35:31 <Elrond> s/proberely/properly
Jun 04 18:53:32 <Psypointer> hey :)
Jun 04 18:53:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 590 has been created by gregory.fowler@gamehound.net
Jun 04 18:53:58 <cdbot2> * * Consider including powercast charge receiver
Jun 04 18:53:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590
Jun 04 18:59:42 <pH5> hmmh? shouldn't that link be http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=590
Jun 04 19:02:32 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2151 10/trunk/oe/ (5 files in 3 dirs): oe: remove gta01-kernel_2.6.bb, we use linux-gta01_*.bb directly from now on.
Jun 04 19:03:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2152 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/fix-EVIOCGRAB-semantics.patch: 
Jun 04 19:03:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: oe/linux: add patch that fixes the EVIOCGRAB semantics
Jun 04 19:03:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: see http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/8/15/331
Jun 04 19:07:49 <Elrond> pH5 - BTW: "t.c_cflag &= ~CRTSCTS; t.c_cflag |= 0x80000000;" is equivalent to t.c_cflag |= CRTSCTS;".
Jun 04 19:08:42 <pH5> now I feel stupid, thanks Elrond ;)
Jun 04 19:10:50 <Elrond> pH5 - You might want to recheck. :-)  So the question remains, what made you create these two lines. Is there a bug in strace?
Jun 04 19:11:15 <mickey|dinner> pH5: right! 
Jun 04 19:11:20 <mickey|dinner> CoreDump|afk: ping
Jun 04 19:12:27 <Elrond> mickey|dinner - Hi! :-)
Jun 04 19:14:39 <pH5> Elrond: no, you are completely right. I was just too dumb to read octal.
Jun 04 19:16:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2153 10/trunk/oe/packages/alsa/ (alsa-state_svn.bb files/stereoout.state): oe/alsa-state: limit stereoout default volume a bit
Jun 04 19:17:01 <woglinde> he elrond and ph5
Jun 04 19:17:18 <woglinde> linuxtag was fun
Jun 04 19:17:23 <Elrond> Hi woglinde :)
Jun 04 19:17:29 <Elrond> woglinde - GPN was fun too. :-)
Jun 04 19:17:36 <woglinde> ah yes
Jun 04 19:18:08 <pH5> hej woglinde
Jun 04 19:20:44 <Elrond> woglinde - I guess, I was the only person with a neo there. ;o)
Jun 04 19:21:12 <woglinde> elrond lol yes the others were all in berlin
Jun 04 19:21:33 <Elrond> woglinde - Someone has to do the smaller jobs. ;-)
Jun 04 19:25:20 <Elrond> Okay... finally I get to talk to the gps using plain pyserial. :-)
Jun 04 19:25:59 <Vegar> figured out it's language yet?
Jun 04 19:26:49 <pH5> Vegar: in one minute?
Jun 04 19:27:27 <Vegar> hasn't he been talking to the GPS for weeks now?
Jun 04 19:28:03 <Elrond> Vegar - days. .-)
Jun 04 19:28:05 <Elrond> :-)
Jun 04 19:28:10 <Vegar> ok
Jun 04 19:28:16 <Elrond> Vegar - Guess what... I have a real life. ;-)
Jun 04 19:28:19 <Vegar> so my perception of time is a bit out of order
Jun 04 19:30:13 <Psypointer> why is openmoko well.. so expensive? what are the dear components of the handy?
Jun 04 19:30:21 <woglinde> expensiv?
Jun 04 19:30:27 <Vegar> expensive?
Jun 04 19:30:33 <Psypointer> 350$ is expensive i think
Jun 04 19:30:36 <woglinde> no
Jun 04 19:30:36 <Psypointer> or am i wrong?
Jun 04 19:30:42 <miip> ur wrong :)
Jun 04 19:30:46 <Vegar> it's a smartphone
Jun 04 19:30:58 <Vegar> compare the price to other phones with the same capabilities
Jun 04 19:31:06 <woglinde> yes you are wrong, most phones you get is with contract thats why they are cheap
Jun 04 19:31:06 <Psypointer> oh okay. i haven´t got any experience with smartphones
Jun 04 19:31:09 <CM> Psypointer: The screen is quite expensive, and there's a lot of ram in it
Jun 04 19:31:10 <balrog-kun> $350 is the price of the Neo1973, but compared to devices of its class it's not so much i was told
Jun 04 19:31:16 <Kensan> Psypointer, it does not come with a 2 year contract of a mobile carrier that would subsidize the price.
Jun 04 19:31:25 <woglinde> hihi
Jun 04 19:31:28 <CM> Hehe
Jun 04 19:31:31 <Psypointer> my last cell phone was a nokia 6210 and it broke last week :S
Jun 04 19:31:52 <Vegar> is that the large thing with an external antenna?
Jun 04 19:32:19 <slider_> thats not a cell phone, its a portable phone booth :)
Jun 04 19:33:35 <woglinde> as mickeyl said on his talk
Jun 04 19:33:47 <Kensan> Psypointer: plus, it's not a phone. It's a open, mobile linux device with gsm/calling capabilities
Jun 04 19:33:50 <woglinde> its device you can also do phoneclass with
Jun 04 19:33:54 <woglinde> calls
Jun 04 19:33:56 <woglinde> args
Jun 04 19:34:03 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: Go and compare _unsubsidised_ devices.
Jun 04 19:34:22 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: with wifi, and 256M RAM, it's pretty much the cheapest out there.
Jun 04 19:34:29 <Psypointer> 256mb ram? lol
Jun 04 19:34:35 <koen> 25MB flash, not ram
Jun 04 19:34:45 <koen> 256*
Jun 04 19:34:49 <Psypointer> hmm
Jun 04 19:34:54 <SpeedEvil> Without wifi - it's harder to judge, as nobody makes this sort of phone without wifi
Jun 04 19:34:55 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jun 04 19:34:57 <Psypointer> is there a complete free gsm stack?
Jun 04 19:34:59 <SpeedEvil> 128M RAM
Jun 04 19:35:02 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: no
Jun 04 19:35:12 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: and it'd be illegal in many countries to have one.
Jun 04 19:35:24 <Psypointer> how is it implemented ?
Jun 04 19:35:25 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: it's required to be certified and unalterable.
Jun 04 19:35:30 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: canned modem.
Jun 04 19:35:36 <SpeedEvil> Psypointer: you talk to it via AT commands.
Jun 04 19:35:54 <Psypointer> so you cannot hack other handys via openmoko ? :>)
Jun 04 19:35:54 <guaqua> how is the gprs interface done, btw?
Jun 04 19:36:12 <woglinde> psypointer????
Jun 04 19:36:34 <woglinde> psypointer hm you should read wiki.openmoko.org
Jun 04 19:36:43 <Psypointer> woglinde: :) well saying *i am an antenna* like the imsicatcher :>
Jun 04 19:36:45 <woglinde> to get a clue what openmoko is
Jun 04 19:37:08 <Psypointer> hm okay.
Jun 04 19:39:27 <balrog-kun> Psypointer: theoretically it's always possible
Jun 04 19:39:52 <balrog-kun> you just won't know how to do it
Jun 04 19:41:19 <balrog-kun> the modem probably even supports firmware upload
Jun 04 19:41:25 <balrog-kun> i know the bluetooth chip does
Jun 04 19:42:48 <SpeedEvil> Like the pentium supports firmware download.
Jun 04 19:42:55 <SpeedEvil> And you could probably do _really_ fun stuff.
Jun 04 19:43:48 <balrog-kun> pentium?
Jun 04 19:44:11 <balrog-kun> what processor does the firmware run on then? :)
Jun 04 19:44:11 <woglinde> microcode
Jun 04 19:44:36 <balrog-kun> is there like a real processor that emulates a pentium in it? :)
Jun 04 19:44:55 <SpeedEvil> Basically.
Jun 04 19:45:12 <SpeedEvil> There will be large hardcoded bits.
Jun 04 19:45:24 <SpeedEvil> But some fraction of the instruction set will be firmware.
Jun 04 19:45:50 <SpeedEvil> That bit can be tweaked if bugs are found, or that will 
Jun 04 19:46:13 <SpeedEvil> or the hardcoded part overridden in a slower but non-buggy way
Jun 04 19:46:56 <balrog-kun> interesting
Jun 04 19:48:03 <CM> It has to be reloaded every time though
Jun 04 19:48:16 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Jun 04 19:48:34 <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could use it for really fast DSP like stuff, replacing bits of the instruction set.
Jun 04 19:48:46 <SpeedEvil> But like the GSM modem, they'll never tell you how.
Jun 04 19:54:29 <nobody96> hi
Jun 04 19:55:23 <MacNorth> hi
Jun 04 19:56:35 <Moo^^> by the way, I have been doing some custom Minimo user interfaces optimized for touch screen devices.
Jun 04 19:56:42 <Moo^^> What browser OM will use?
Jun 04 19:57:08 <CM> Moo^^: Lots of people seem to like webkit
Jun 04 19:57:20 * CM has no preference yet
Jun 04 19:57:31 <nobody96> i get an error while running make qemu
Jun 04 19:57:34 <nobody96> /usr/include/sys/types.h:248: error: conflicting types for 'blkcnt_t'
Jun 04 19:57:34 <nobody96> /usr/include/linux/types.h:158: error: previous declaration of 'blkcnt_t' was here
Jun 04 19:57:54 <nobody96> anyone here who solved that already?
Jun 04 19:58:08 <Moo^^> after getting into it, it is ridiculous easy to customize javascript and XUL compared to GTK code 
Jun 04 19:58:17 <Moo^^> of course, it all comes with terrible performance penalty
Jun 04 19:58:56 <Gybrush> easier than using libglade as well?
Jun 04 20:02:09 <balrog-kun> nobody96: strange, /usr/include/linux/types.h shouldn't be included
Jun 04 20:02:09 <nobody96> anyone any idea?
Jun 04 20:02:30 <nobody96> hmm interesting
Jun 04 20:03:14 <nobody96> any idea how i fix this?
Jun 04 20:03:36 <balrog-kun> nobody96: which .c file is this happening in?
Jun 04 20:03:38 <nobody96> it also happens with the svn checkout
Jun 04 20:04:01 <balrog-kun> nobody96: what's your linux-headers version?
Jun 04 20:04:18 <nobody96> In file included from /usr/include/stdlib.h:438,
Jun 04 20:04:18 <nobody96>                  from /home/bag/om/qemu-neo1973/vl.h:28,
Jun 04 20:04:18 <nobody96>                  from /home/bag/om/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c:30:
Jun 04 20:04:36 <balrog-kun> nobody96: ah
Jun 04 20:04:48 <nobody96> this sounds promissing :)
Jun 04 20:06:11 <balrog-kun> nobody96: removing the line #define CONFIG_GADGETFS 1 in config-host.h will make it go away
Jun 04 20:06:24 <balrog-kun> it sounds like an incompatible version of linux-headers
Jun 04 20:06:56 <balrog-kun> nobody96: what distro is this?
Jun 04 20:06:59 <nobody96> im using linux-headers-2.6.17
Jun 04 20:07:01 <nobody96> gentoo
Jun 04 20:07:33 <balrog-kun> hm, okay..
Jun 04 20:08:01 <balrog-kun> i know gadgetfs also didn't want to work with 2.6.18 for some people, i will add a stronger check
Jun 04 20:08:38 <nobody96> which linux-headers should i use instead
Jun 04 20:09:36 <balrog-kun> nobody96: it worked for me with 2.6.20 and 2.6.21
Jun 04 20:09:51 <balrog-kun> and my kernel version was same as that of the linux-headers package
Jun 04 20:10:01 <balrog-kun> i'm on gentoo too
Jun 04 20:15:27 <nobody96> i have updated to 2.6.21 and it seems working
Jun 04 20:16:47 <balrog-kun> cool
Jun 04 20:19:44 <nobody96> just a few missing binarys
Jun 04 20:26:44 <nobody96> up and running
Jun 04 20:26:46 <nobody96> thanks a lot
Jun 04 20:28:43 <pavelm> Heya,everyone.
Jun 04 20:28:57 <pH5> hej pavelm
Jun 04 20:30:18 <pavelm> ph5: Hello! Any progress with gllin reverse-engineering?
Jun 04 20:30:45 <ScaredyCat> blah
Jun 04 20:31:06 <woglinde> hi pavelm
Jun 04 20:31:23 <ScaredyCat> any day now... ?? are we sure?
Jun 04 20:31:40 <woglinde> yes
Jun 04 20:31:42 <cjb> more like a week or two, I think.
Jun 04 20:31:57 <cjb> judging from LaF0rge's blog entry.
Jun 04 20:32:21 <ScaredyCat> :o ..
Jun 04 20:32:25 <balrog-kun> ScaredyCat: that means that we don't know
Jun 04 20:32:53 <ScaredyCat> is there any supply for Europe? or do i need to import?
Jun 04 20:33:07 <Rince> ScaredyCat: there are enough european developers ;)
Jun 04 20:33:20 <woglinde> scaredycat you need to import
Jun 04 20:33:43 <balrog-kun> any day now is less precise than any of the earlier predictions :)
Jun 04 20:33:46 * ScaredyCat throws sticky buns around
Jun 04 20:33:58 <ScaredyCat> heheh - so true
Jun 04 20:38:01 <pH5> pavelm: no, I wasn't bored enough for that :)
Jun 04 20:40:09 <pavelm> ph5: ;-)
Jun 04 20:43:21 <pavelm> ...still searching for working pygtk... or working microSD card...
Jun 04 20:44:32 <nobody96> brb
Jun 04 20:47:53 <pavelm> I believe openmoko has certain bad problems...
Jun 04 20:48:03 <pavelm> ...like contacts application is stylus-only...
Jun 04 20:48:07 <empty_mind> like
Jun 04 20:48:48 <pavelm> ...with no stylus holder. Am I supposed to borrow stylus every time I call a number I do not remember?
Jun 04 20:48:55 <pavelm> ...which is... like... every time?
Jun 04 20:49:19 <empty_mind> no stylus holder ?
Jun 04 20:49:33 <balrog-kun> that's a hardware bug :)
Jun 04 20:50:01 <pavelm> ...question is what to do with that. Write nicely worded rant to my blog?
Jun 04 20:50:08 <empty_mind> u guys mean to say neo does not have a stylus holder in casing ?
Jun 04 20:50:23 <cjb> yeah.
Jun 04 20:50:36 <empty_mind> OMFG!!! WTF!!!
Jun 04 20:51:04 <nobody96> re
Jun 04 20:51:11 <empty_mind> WHO IS THE IDIOT TO DESIGN SUCH A THING ?
Jun 04 20:52:07 <nobody96> empty_mind, whats the problem?
Jun 04 20:52:08 <pavelm> empty: Do not shout. Apparently openmoko is too small for proper holder.
Jun 04 20:52:24 <empty_mind> too small is no excuse
Jun 04 20:52:34 <empty_mind> thats really stupid
Jun 04 20:52:57 <empty_mind> for god sake neo is a mobile phone ans i supposed to be carried by people on the move
Jun 04 20:53:11 <pavelm> ...anyway, stylus should not be required for common operations.
Jun 04 20:53:33 <empty_mind> how do you expect your users to carry a separate entity with them
Jun 04 20:53:53 <empty_mind> well its a touch screen phone so stylus not required is no answer
Jun 04 20:53:56 <nobody96> oh i thought this is a hardware bug which will be fixed soon
Jun 04 20:54:01 * empty_mind rethinks about buying a neo
Jun 04 20:54:07 <balrog-kun> empty_mind: there should be enough finger apps eventually
Jun 04 20:54:25 <nobody96> balrog-kun, this is no really excuse
Jun 04 20:54:41 <empty_mind> no one can guarantee what will happen eventually
Jun 04 20:55:00 <nobody96> on the linux-tag 2 days ago in berlin i managed to take a close look at the phone
Jun 04 20:55:04 <balrog-kun> the stylus holder will have to be designed for a specific stylus
Jun 04 20:55:06 <hozer> you can guarantee what you want to happen if you want to fund a production run
Jun 04 20:55:18 <empty_mind> having a stylus holder for a touchscreen phone is just common sense
Jun 04 20:55:18 <nobody96> and it should be possible to place a stylus somewhere
Jun 04 20:55:19 <Elrond> Hey, calm down people.
Jun 04 20:55:24 <balrog-kun> and i think FIC doesn't produce styli, i'm not sure
Jun 04 20:55:37 <pH5> I AM CALM.
Jun 04 20:55:52 <nobody96> easy, there is a solution
Jun 04 20:55:53 <empty_mind> even motorola or nokia dont produce stylus, its an accessory
Jun 04 20:56:01 <nobody96> its just not found
Jun 04 20:56:01 * balrog-kun thomps the desk to express how calm he is
Jun 04 20:56:11 <hozer> no kidding.. either stop shouting, or open up your checkbook :P
Jun 04 20:56:14 <Elrond> Well, the idea about the stylus is to use the supplied stylue/pen combo. Which fits anywhere you would put a pen anyway.
Jun 04 20:56:39 <Elrond> empty_mind - The Neo comes with a stylus shipped.
Jun 04 20:56:46 <empty_mind> hozer, its not about checkbook. If i am paying $350 i can pay $360 for a casing with stylus holder
Jun 04 20:57:05 <mjr> way to blow things out of proportion
Jun 04 20:57:09 <empty_mind> when it comes with stylus shipped why not a stylus holder
Jun 04 20:57:10 <SpeedEvil> Stylus also makes it larger. Which is annoying.
Jun 04 20:57:23 <hozer> the person funding the initial production run gets to decide if there's a stylus or not
Jun 04 20:57:24 <Elrond> Right.
Jun 04 20:57:25 <SpeedEvil> The shipped stylus is way too large for that.
Jun 04 20:57:32 <Elrond> My mum already finds the neo too large.
Jun 04 20:57:35 <empty_mind> well so dont make a phone which needs stylus
Jun 04 20:57:42 <nobody96> a small telescopic stylus would fit in, i think
Jun 04 20:58:03 <mjr> though it's a valid complaint that the contacts app requires stylus. Should be able to do some basic contact browsing with finger.
Jun 04 20:58:04 <empty_mind> guys absence of stylus holder will be serious setback to the project when it hits mass market
Jun 04 20:58:06 <Elrond> Well, fingernails work fine.
Jun 04 20:58:14 <empty_mind> remeber mass market != geek world
Jun 04 20:58:23 <Elrond> mjr - Right.
Jun 04 20:58:34 <mjr> But. That's a software problem, and fixable.
Jun 04 20:58:41 <Elrond> mjr - With big font, just to be able to read while doing horseback riding. ;-)
Jun 04 20:58:43 <nobody96> i was the number one comment on the linuxtag
Jun 04 20:58:54 <hozer> um.. I think *having* a stylus is a setback for mass market
Jun 04 20:59:04 <hozer> it's the geeks that are demanding one :P
Jun 04 20:59:06 <Elrond> nobody96 - What was the number one comment?
Jun 04 20:59:16 <nobody96> ups
Jun 04 20:59:20 <empty_mind> having a stylus is not a setback but not having a stylus holder is
Jun 04 20:59:21 <SpeedEvil> FPGA - pony!
Jun 04 20:59:24 <nobody96> tiped thougt and typed again
Jun 04 20:59:29 <nobody96> s/i/that/
Jun 04 20:59:29 <apt> nobody96 meant: tthatped thougt and typed again
Jun 04 20:59:51 <nobody96> and that means "hum, where is the pen?"
Jun 04 21:00:04 <pavelm> mjr: Should I file bugzilla report?
Jun 04 21:00:07 <nobody96> the second was the browser crashing down
Jun 04 21:00:44 <pavelm> elrond: Yep, big font is needed  :-)
Jun 04 21:01:03 <pH5> I agree with pavelm. I hate always having to dig the stylus out of my phone when somebody tells me their number.
Jun 04 21:01:35 <nobody96> hmm error: `GADGETFS_NOP' undeclared (first use in this function)
Jun 04 21:01:51 <nobody96> and i thought i have it up and running...
Jun 04 21:01:51 <pavelm> speed: Smallest pony is 46cm currently; still too big for FPGA ;-)
Jun 04 21:01:56 <SpeedEvil> I agree that stuff should be doable without the stylus - generally.
Jun 04 21:02:16 <mjr> pavelm, I wouldn't think that inappropriate
Jun 04 21:02:19 <SpeedEvil> pavelm: You put the FPGA on top of the pony, which also carries spare batteries, and the stylus.
Jun 04 21:02:24 <pavelm> speed: and I believe ponies are still better than GPSson navigation.
Jun 04 21:02:48 <hozer> um, what the heck is this 'pony' thing?
Jun 04 21:03:04 <pavelm> speed: Will have to think about it.
Jun 04 21:03:05 <nobody96> how am i supposed to carry arround a pony?
Jun 04 21:03:23 <SpeedEvil> The helium balloon nullifies the weight of the pony.
Jun 04 21:03:29 <ScaredyCat> OMG ponies!!!!!1!oneeleventyone
Jun 04 21:03:55 * pavelm wishes ponies had plugs to recharge the gadgets
Jun 04 21:04:06 <pavelm> nobody: pony is quite capable of following you ;-)
Jun 04 21:04:09 <nobody96> SpeedEvil, it allso nullifies the weight of my car: http://www.autoteile-scheinwerfer.de/images/CITROEN%202CV%2046%202CV%20kombi%200170-1187.jpg
Jun 04 21:04:23 <nobody96> and it will surly not fit in
Jun 04 21:04:44 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - How did you get to think of FPGA?
Jun 04 21:05:20 <SpeedEvil> Being actually serious.
Jun 04 21:05:43 <SpeedEvil> A DSP core in the processor would be nice - especially one that can be run without the CPU being on.
Jun 04 21:06:14 <holtmann> Who takes care of that we have the latest bluez-libs and bluez-utils packages synced from OE.
Jun 04 21:06:32 <holtmann> My latest image still shows bluez-utils-3.9 and that is kinda old.
Jun 04 21:06:47 <holtmann> We need bluez-utils-3.11 with the services activated.
Jun 04 21:06:52 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: that only leads to a conclusion that two CPUs are better than one
Jun 04 21:06:58 <balrog-kun> which we already know
Jun 04 21:07:02 <balrog-kun> and three are even better
Jun 04 21:07:27 <SpeedEvil> Well...
Jun 04 21:07:38 <SpeedEvil> There actually are DSPs out there.
Jun 04 21:07:55 <SpeedEvil> That have a conventional ticket.
Jun 04 21:08:04 <SpeedEvil> err
Jun 04 21:08:13 <balrog-kun> yeah
Jun 04 21:08:15 <SpeedEvil> that have a conventional CPU, and a power efficient DSP core
Jun 04 21:08:38 <SpeedEvil> And that are fairly cheap.
Jun 04 21:08:38 <Elrond> pH5 - tihi... channel 9-f are ignored and used like channel=0, it seems. ;-)
Jun 04 21:09:17 * hozer wishes for an opencores.org GSM FPGA core
Jun 04 21:09:27 <drath> hehehe
Jun 04 21:09:53 <pH5> Elrond: doesn't surprise me, the hammerhead being an 8 channel receiver.
Jun 04 21:10:04 <Elrond> pH5 - Yeah.
Jun 04 21:10:13 <SpeedEvil> ph5: it's not 8 channel
Jun 04 21:10:14 <pH5> so you are working on slowly getting more confident that it doesn't blow up when you feed it bogus data? :)
Jun 04 21:10:19 <Elrond> Hmmm, the sirfstarIII is a 12 channel receiver. ;-)
Jun 04 21:10:23 * SpeedEvil is fairly sure.
Jun 04 21:10:53 <Elrond> pH5 - Yeah. I'm playing with the flags and the channels. ;-)
Jun 04 21:11:14 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Most of the protocol looks very much like 8 channel.
Jun 04 21:11:58 <nobody96> does anyone know how i get rid of the usb errors when building qemu with the openmakefile?
Jun 04 21:12:02 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - I have to admit, that this surprises me still.
Jun 04 21:12:09 <nobody96> mokomakefile, im sorry
Jun 04 21:12:58 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - As more than 8 channel is really standard as of years...
Jun 04 21:13:03 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Jun 04 21:13:06 <SpeedEvil> I don't see it.
Jun 04 21:13:07 <pH5> well, for now I'd be happy to get a satellite lock on just one channel :)
Jun 04 21:13:12 <SpeedEvil> In the product brief.
Jun 04 21:13:42 <pavelm> ph5: does it talk to you?
Jun 04 21:13:48 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Well, they (GL) can of course do, what the old receivers did: Use one channel for multiple SVs.
Jun 04 21:14:00 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Jun 04 21:14:22 <pavelm> speed: That should be very easy to verify: If we ever see 9-sattelite lock, we know it uses 9 channels... right?
Jun 04 21:14:33 <SpeedEvil> There will be a maximum of 12 satellites.
Jun 04 21:14:35 <pavelm> elrond: How does "one channel for multiple SVs work?
Jun 04 21:14:38 <Elrond> I remember, sirfstarIIi had like 20 correlators or so....
Jun 04 21:14:53 <Elrond> pavelm - Just reconfigure the channel often enough. ;-)
Jun 04 21:15:14 <SpeedEvil> That should work quite well - the lock time should be miniscule - in theory.
Jun 04 21:15:15 <pavelm> elrond: That needs precise timing, no?
Jun 04 21:15:32 <Elrond> pavelm - Not too precise. :-)
Jun 04 21:15:48 <SpeedEvil> In practice - in good environments, there won't be a problkem.
Jun 04 21:16:08 <SpeedEvil> As losing the 4 lowest in the sky (for example) is rarely going to be a problem.
Jun 04 21:16:11 <Elrond> Running half a second one SV, the other half the other SV.
Jun 04 21:16:17 <rwhitby> nobody96: which usb errors?
Jun 04 21:16:18 <Elrond> ... lots of data points still.
Jun 04 21:16:36 <pavelm> elrond: But that means you need to keep nsec timing for half a second, right?
Jun 04 21:16:39 <nobody96> /home/bag/openmoko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c:24:27: linux/usb_ch9.h: No such file or directory
Jun 04 21:16:48 <nobody96> /home/bag/openmoko/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c:638: error: `GADGETFS_DISCONNECT' undeclared (first use in this function)
Jun 04 21:16:52 <nobody96> and a lot more
Jun 04 21:17:41 <Elrond> pavelm - No. The chip gives you the pseudorange for the SV you care for. If it did that, you configure a new SV and it start from scratch.
Jun 04 21:17:56 <Elrond> pavelm - It's like RPC: Send "go, measure"... get response later.
Jun 04 21:18:00 <balrog-kun> nobody96: again remove the GADGETFS line from config-host.h
Jun 04 21:18:06 <nobody96> hmm
Jun 04 21:18:06 <rwhitby> nobody96: usb_ch9.h is a kernel version thing usually
Jun 04 21:18:19 <balrog-kun> nobody96: ./configure shouldn't have put it in there in the first place, this is strange
Jun 04 21:18:30 <nobody96> thought it would run with the new kernel-headers
Jun 04 21:19:30 <balrog-kun> apparently linux-headers inmost distros don't include linux/usb_ch9.h, btu configura checks for that so that it shouldn't be needed
Jun 04 21:19:34 <pavelm> elrond: I thought you need two sattelites to get a pseudorange.
Jun 04 21:19:40 <nobody96> ok, thanks
Jun 04 21:20:35 <Elrond> pavelm - If you have a good internal clock, that can be your first SV ;-)
Jun 04 21:20:46 <Elrond> pavelm - And in reality all modern receivers do that.
Jun 04 21:21:11 <pavelm> elrond: I thought that would need atomic internal clock. What is "SV"?
Jun 04 21:21:25 <pH5> Elrond: does the hh correlate in hardware or is this done with the sent packet 05 / received packet 9d/9e/9f stuff that is going on all the time?
Jun 04 21:21:26 <Elrond> SV := "Satelite in View".
Jun 04 21:22:07 <Elrond> pH5 - According to the glossy papers, we have to assume, that the correlation happens in hw. And really: Anything else is horror.
Jun 04 21:25:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 591 has been created by pavel@ucw.cz
Jun 04 21:25:59 <cdbot2> * * dialing from contacts needs to be possible without stylus
Jun 04 21:26:00 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591
Jun 04 21:26:16 <pavelm> Heh, thanks, cdbot
Jun 04 21:26:34 <Elrond> Who owns cdbot2?
Jun 04 21:26:41 <Elrond> cdbot2: owner?
Jun 04 21:26:46 <penguinwhoflew> have the phones been shipped to developers already?
Jun 04 21:27:31 <k|to> counter
Jun 04 21:27:38 <penguinwhoflew> 2007-03-05: 36 P0 devices shipped to developers.
Jun 04 21:27:40 <penguinwhoflew> nevermind
Jun 04 21:27:56 * pavelm has both phase0  and phase1 devices nearby.
Jun 04 21:28:11 <penguinwhoflew> ya'll need to update the www.openmoko.com page, it's talking about how it will (in the future) ship the phones to developers
Jun 04 21:28:15 <k|to> haha, 'how can i bypass myspace at my school?'
Jun 04 21:28:17 <k|to> what a moron
Jun 04 21:28:27 <woglinde> k|to lol
Jun 04 21:28:52 <Elrond> pavelm - s/phase1/GTA01Bv04/. ;-)  Some FIC people don't like us talking of P1, when P1 has not happended yet. ;)
Jun 04 21:28:57 <woglinde> community portals lowers the iq or lower iq's use community portals like myspace
Jun 04 21:29:09 <k|to> penguinwhoflew: I think they mean the 'casual' developers
Jun 04 21:29:37 <penguinwhoflew> well it still says 'late March / early April.'
Jun 04 21:29:37 <pavelm> elrond: Ok... but Bv04 is going to be the same hardware we already have, right?
Jun 04 21:29:43 <penguinwhoflew> i thought the project died =/
Jun 04 21:29:59 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: It's not that bad.
Jun 04 21:30:08 <SpeedEvil> I recall a design using a transputer.
Jun 04 21:30:15 <SpeedEvil> Which had a 'count ones' option.
Jun 04 21:30:35 <SpeedEvil> xor, count ones, shift, xor, count ones , ...
Jun 04 21:30:43 <Elrond> pavelm - Practically, yes. But the P1 ones will (have been) made in china, while your Bv04 was made in .tw. ;-)
Jun 04 21:30:44 <SpeedEvil> till you get a peak.
Jun 04 21:30:54 <woglinde> penguin -> http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/02/#20070602-busy-busy-busy
Jun 04 21:30:58 <pavelm_away> elrond: aha.. ok.
Jun 04 21:31:16 <penguinwhoflew> haha thank you, woglinde
Jun 04 21:31:58 * woglinde wonders how fast they gonna be selled out
Jun 04 21:32:00 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Hmm. But the bit pattern is a bit large. shifting it inside a 32bit CPU isn't fun.
Jun 04 21:32:02 * pavelm_away wonders what is going to be subtly different in .tw and .cn phones.
Jun 04 21:32:14 <woglinde> and if it cut down to 5 phones per order person
Jun 04 21:32:28 <penguinwhoflew> so will i, a person with little to no experience in software development, be able to purchase one of these phones?
Jun 04 21:33:03 <woglinde> penguin yes but woth no experience you will be not happy
Jun 04 21:33:07 <woglinde> with
Jun 04 21:33:13 <SpeedEvil> Elrond - it's only 1024 bits. And you can generate them from three registers.
Jun 04 21:33:18 <Elrond> penguinwhoflew - You will be very unhappy.
Jun 04 21:33:22 <woglinde> wait for the 2nd generation
Jun 04 21:33:28 <penguinwhoflew> alright
Jun 04 21:33:53 <penguinwhoflew> i was thinking i could just download the alphas or whatever of whatever applications people were working on
Jun 04 21:34:00 <SpeedEvil> You can do that.
Jun 04 21:34:01 <woglinde> you can
Jun 04 21:34:01 <Elrond> penguinwhoflew - If you buy one now, you will have nice hardware, but basicly useless software.
Jun 04 21:34:09 <pavelm_away> penguin: purchase one and give it to elrond :-).
Jun 04 21:34:10 <SpeedEvil> At the moment.
Jun 04 21:34:14 <penguinwhoflew> haha
Jun 04 21:34:24 <Elrond> pavelm_away - :-))
Jun 04 21:34:31 <SpeedEvil> It's workingish hardware, and a funcioning pocket-sized X box, with some prototype phone apps.
Jun 04 21:34:45 <penguinwhoflew> does it dial out?
Jun 04 21:34:47 <pavelm_away> ...alpha versions are of course available.
Jun 04 21:34:48 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jun 04 21:34:50 <woglinde> penguin yes
Jun 04 21:34:55 <penguinwhoflew> and recieve calls?
Jun 04 21:34:55 <woglinde> per AT commands
Jun 04 21:35:01 <penguinwhoflew> ah
Jun 04 21:35:08 <pavelm_away> penguin: I did not yet see a version that could call from gui.
Jun 04 21:35:14 <SpeedEvil> I thought the dialer was actually working now.
Jun 04 21:35:29 <penguinwhoflew> guess i'll just hope my phone lasts until the 2nd gen comes out
Jun 04 21:35:40 <balrog-kun> the dialer worked for me
Jun 04 21:35:45 <balrog-kun> from the GUI
Jun 04 21:35:45 <pavelm_away> speed: there probably was/is some version that could call. Just I did not see it yet.
Jun 04 21:36:11 <Elrond> penguinwhoflew - You can get alphas, of course. But I hope you know, what "alpha" means.
Jun 04 21:36:27 <pavelm_away> balrog: I seen working dialer + broken mixer, yes.
Jun 04 21:36:28 <penguinwhoflew> Elrond, yes. terrible. haha.
Jun 04 21:36:35 <balrog-kun> i need to try if i can receive calls with it - with the previouse version i couldn't
Jun 04 21:36:44 <balrog-kun> pavelm_away: it worked quite well for me
Jun 04 21:36:47 <pavelm_away> balrog: Is something more stable than http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ available?
Jun 04 21:36:49 <penguinwhoflew> is it 3g? sim card and all that?
Jun 04 21:37:19 <balrog-kun> i.e. i made a call and could talk with the person on the other end :)
Jun 04 21:37:22 <balrog-kun> pavelm_away: i don't know
Jun 04 21:37:23 <pavelm_away> penguin: Not 3g, not even edge.
Jun 04 21:37:28 <Elrond> pavelm_away - Yes... get an old rootfs and selectively update .ipk s from buildhost/.../ipk. ;-)
Jun 04 21:37:37 <Elrond> pavelm_away - And be prepared to downgrade. ;o)
Jun 04 21:37:44 <penguinwhoflew> so what carriers does it work with?
Jun 04 21:37:57 <Elrond> penguinwhoflew - Look at the wiki, that question is answered there.
Jun 04 21:38:00 <balrog-kun> pavelm_away: i guess stable is not a good thing for development version
Jun 04 21:38:15 <penguinwhoflew> i'm looking...
Jun 04 21:38:47 <Elrond> <-- hops away.
Jun 04 21:39:08 <sparq> Hey -- is anyone in Beijing? (or been there recently)
Jun 04 21:39:47 <sparq> My girlfriend is going to be studying there, and I was wondering if her US GSM phone will work normally.
Jun 04 21:40:12 <penguinwhoflew> so i'm just going to have to wait for my carrier to offer the phone before it will work? =(
Jun 04 21:40:17 <sparq> It should, I know, but I figure one should check on these things.
Jun 04 21:40:22 <woglinde> sparq why?
Jun 04 21:40:34 <woglinde> you can buy cheap phone in china
Jun 04 21:40:43 <balrog-kun> penguinwhoflew: it should work with any carrier, see the wiki
Jun 04 21:40:47 <pavelm_away> penguin: You just insert your gsm simcard there.
Jun 04 21:41:04 <balrog-kun> it works with my usual old carrier
Jun 04 21:41:11 <penguinwhoflew> hm
Jun 04 21:41:13 <penguinwhoflew> alright then
Jun 04 21:41:15 <sparq> woglinde: True, but it would be one more thing to worry about.
Jun 04 21:41:22 <penguinwhoflew> guess i misread part of the wiki, and didn't read the right part
Jun 04 21:41:27 <penguinwhoflew> where exactly does it say that?
Jun 04 21:42:09 <balrog-kun> penguinwhoflew: there's a whole page dedicate to supported carriers (which afaict just list all carriers people came up with)
Jun 04 21:42:17 <balrog-kun> *lists
Jun 04 21:42:18 <penguinwhoflew> i searched carriers
Jun 04 21:43:08 <penguinwhoflew> came up with nothing o.0
Jun 04 21:43:48 <penguinwhoflew> ah
Jun 04 21:43:50 <penguinwhoflew> providers
Jun 04 21:43:52 <penguinwhoflew> not carriers
Jun 04 21:44:06 <penguinwhoflew> yay, cingular is supported
Jun 04 21:44:39 <nobody96> mine is on the list to *freu*
Jun 04 21:45:16 <nobody96> just a few releaes more and i will get rid of this buggy sony
Jun 04 21:45:28 <nobody96> and get a truly buggy but fixable phone
Jun 04 21:47:07 <woglinde> spraq and I think calling to us from china is cheaper via ip-phone
Jun 04 21:48:36 <nobody96> is it true that the phone will have wlan onboard soon?
Jun 04 21:50:21 <woglinde> nobody the consumer variant yes
Jun 04 21:50:44 <cjb> nobody96: well, not "soon".  but the v2 model will.
Jun 04 21:51:54 <nobody96> i hope i could wait long enough
Jun 04 21:53:04 <woglinde> lol
Jun 04 21:53:06 <woglinde> you can
Jun 04 21:53:51 <arcdigital> Is anyone from the coreteam here?
Jun 04 21:54:52 <woglinde> arcdigital is your question that important?
Jun 04 21:55:15 <arcdigital> well actually anyone who actually works for openmoko
Jun 04 21:55:23 <arcdigital> because i've got 2 things to say
Jun 04 21:55:31 <arcdigital> first is actually really important
Jun 04 21:55:39 <arcdigital> and second not that important
Jun 04 21:55:51 <woglinde> than write an email to sean
Jun 04 21:56:04 <arcdigital> I tried to email coreteam@openmoko.com
Jun 04 21:56:08 <arcdigital> or I mean .org
Jun 04 21:56:14 <rwhitby> what's the text on slide 19 of mickey|dinner's slides at http://www.vanille-media.de/misc/openmoko-lt2007.pdf say?
Jun 04 21:56:26 <woglinde> rhwitby mom
Jun 04 21:56:50 <arcdigital> ok, what is Sean's email?
Jun 04 21:57:33 <rwhitby> woglinde: the slide with the funky polymer vision future gadget
Jun 04 21:58:24 <woglinde> rwhitby ah it says a new developmenplatform for new apps, gadegts and hm interactionforms
Jun 04 21:58:42 <woglinde> rwhitby he means openemoko in general
Jun 04 21:58:52 <rwhitby> woglinde: thx
Jun 04 21:59:12 <woglinde> rwhitby and on the talk he said, he would by immedatly such a ploymere device if it were aviablable
Jun 04 21:59:47 <woglinde> ah the title backgrounds and *g* visions
Jun 04 22:01:11 <rwhitby> looks like it was a good talk from the slides at least
Jun 04 22:01:31 <woglinde> yes
Jun 04 22:01:39 <nobody96> and i missed it
Jun 04 22:01:39 <woglinde> mickey is very good at it
Jun 04 22:01:44 <nobody96> :(
Jun 04 22:01:46 * mjr wonders what important things arcdigital has to say, but isn't sure if he dare ask
Jun 04 22:01:51 <woglinde> beside the fact he made the last evening
Jun 04 22:02:36 <woglinde> rwhitby in mickeys talk were more people than in the oter embedded talks like maemo or greephone
Jun 04 22:02:54 <woglinde> nobody why?
Jun 04 22:03:19 <rwhitby> arcdigital: just say it here, and the message will be sure to be passed one
Jun 04 22:03:22 <rwhitby> s/one/on/
Jun 04 22:03:22 <apt> rwhitby meant: arcdigital: just say it here, and the message will be sure to be passed on
Jun 04 22:04:48 <nobody96> because i had a lecture friday in the morning
Jun 04 22:04:52 <arcdigital> ok sure
Jun 04 22:04:54 <arcdigital> 1 sec
Jun 04 22:05:02 <arcdigital> I had a long email typed up though lol
Jun 04 22:05:12 <rwhitby> pastebin.ca :-)
Jun 04 22:05:15 <woglinde> nobody hm? the talk was in the noon 4 pm
Jun 04 22:05:19 <nobody96> and im living a few hundred km's away
Jun 04 22:05:24 <woglinde> hehe
Jun 04 22:05:28 <arcdigital> My email hasn't been replied to for about 1 or 2 months
Jun 04 22:05:35 <nobody96> im driving a citroen 2cv
Jun 04 22:05:38 <arcdigital> and when I tried to send in a reply It says delivery failed
Jun 04 22:05:45 <nobody96> take me 9 hours 
Jun 04 22:05:53 <nobody96> ok, with 2 traffic jams
Jun 04 22:05:55 <woglinde> nobody consider to live in berlin
Jun 04 22:06:00 <nobody96> i considerd
Jun 04 22:06:21 <nobody96> but changing the uni isnt that easy
Jun 04 22:06:41 <nobody96> and i like it here
Jun 04 22:06:43 <nobody96> most
Jun 04 22:06:56 <nobody96> exept that i'm missing good talks :)
Jun 04 22:10:09 <rwhitby> arcdigital: mickey|dinner, LaF0rge, roh are all on the core team.  if you say your important things here they are likely to see them (or someone is likely to point it out to them)
Jun 04 22:12:07 <arcdigital> ok
Jun 04 22:25:58 <nobody96> gn8
Jun 04 22:31:19 <SrRaven> http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=958789575 <- thats a stylish way of using a touchschcreen pda....openmoko has to beat it!
Jun 04 22:31:53 <daMaestro> counter
Jun 04 22:32:22 <daMaestro> counter?
Jun 04 22:32:35 <k|to> !counter damnit
Jun 04 22:32:40 <daMaestro> i know!
Jun 04 22:32:43 <daMaestro> tell me! tell me!
Jun 04 22:32:45 <k|to> heh, guess not
Jun 04 22:34:32 <k|to> there's your problem
Jun 04 22:34:39 <k|to> there doesn't seem to be an aloril present
Jun 04 22:38:37 <k|to> i love virtualization
Jun 04 22:38:51 <k|to> ubuntu in a little box on my mac is so sweet
Jun 04 22:39:11 <k|to> can't wait to get openmoko in a little box in ubuntu in a little box on my mac
Jun 04 22:40:47 <pavelm> Did arcdigital actually tell us what the very important message is?
Jun 04 22:40:58 <k|to> i don't believe so
Jun 04 22:41:11 <k|to> of course i accidently shut down my client for a few seconds
Jun 04 22:41:18 <k|to> so i might've missed it
Jun 04 22:41:20 <k|to> as it flew by
Jun 04 22:42:32 <Elrond> pavelm - Were you able to use the mic in the neo to record some audio?
Jun 04 22:46:40 <rwhitby> pavelm: no, he didn't.  must have been too important
Jun 04 22:46:58 <rwhitby> ;-)
Jun 04 22:47:39 <pavelm> rwhitby: Okay, I _hope_ coreteam has good enough spam filters :-)
Jun 04 22:47:53 <pavelm> elrond: No, I did not play with mic yet. Was something in dm2 testsuite?
Jun 04 22:48:18 <Elrond> pavelm - I dont remember, if there was something for recording...
Jun 04 22:49:14 <Elrond> pavelm - nope. Nothing in dm2.
Jun 04 22:50:17 <CoreDump|home> hi
Jun 04 22:51:20 <pavelm> elrond: sorry, I did not play with that area.
Jun 04 22:53:36 <pavelm> elrond: It should be as simple as cat /dev/dsp > foo; cat foo > /dev/dsp...
Jun 04 22:56:12 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: that would be me btw (cdbot2)
Jun 04 22:57:07 <balrog-kun> arecord and aplay
Jun 04 23:03:15 * sixfeet_    ♫    Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists
Jun 04 23:03:20 <sixfeet_> moin
Jun 04 23:04:33 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - The OMBug-URL is wrong. ;o)
Jun 04 23:04:52 <CoreDump|home> Elrond: I saw that in the backlog, fixing ATM ;)
Jun 04 23:05:04 <Elrond> CoreDump|home - :-)
Jun 04 23:09:00 <pavelm> okay, good night everyone!
Jun 04 23:10:09 <Elrond> Ha. Recording works. :-)
Jun 04 23:13:01 <Elrond> It's quality is quite okay.
Jun 04 23:13:41 <penguinwhoflew> any mp3 playing apps in the works?
Jun 04 23:15:03 <Elrond> penguinwhoflew - I saw some "openmoko-simplemediaplayer" in svn. Didn't try it yet.
Jun 04 23:15:20 <penguinwhoflew> this phone blows all others out of the water
Jun 04 23:15:28 <penguinwhoflew> gps? bad ass.
Jun 04 23:20:11 <pavelm> penguin: madplay works from command line ;-)
Jun 04 23:20:24 <pavelm> bye for real
Jun 04 23:20:27 <penguinwhoflew> lol
Jun 04 23:21:40 <mjr> madplay will go well with mass market, I'm sure :)
Jun 04 23:23:47 <Elrond> *G*
Jun 04 23:23:48 <Elrond> Yeah.
Jun 04 23:24:12 <Elrond> People will love to cd to the sounds folder on the screen using the on-screen-keyboard. ;-)
Jun 04 23:24:25 <Elrond> .... and then having to type "madplay " and the full title. ;-)
Jun 04 23:24:54 <k|to> i know how much fun it was on the ipaq
Jun 04 23:26:01 <SpeedEvil> xmms?
Jun 04 23:26:10 <SpeedEvil> Should almost fit the display.
Jun 04 23:31:48 <mjr> recall the earlier discussion about basic usability with fingers? ;]
Jun 04 23:31:57 <mjr> that'd be a pain to use with a stylus
Jun 04 23:32:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 592 has been created by stephan@spaceboyz.net
Jun 04 23:32:58 <cdbot2> * * qemu-neo1973 not building with support for gadgetfs, missing linux/usb_ch9.h
Jun 04 23:32:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=592
Jun 04 23:34:47 <Elrond> Hmm, anybody remembers where the .inf files were for using the neo connected to windows?!
Jun 04 23:36:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 591 has been created by pavel@ucw.cz
Jun 04 23:36:58 <cdbot2> * * dialing from contacts needs to be possible without stylus
Jun 04 23:36:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=591
Jun 04 23:37:10 <balrog-kun> bug 592 assigned to OpenEmbedded-issues? huh?
Jun 04 23:38:18 <balrog-kun> hmmm
Jun 04 23:38:36 <balrog-kun> the url given by cdbot2 for bug 592 seems to be a totally different bug
Jun 04 23:40:00 <CoreDump|home> balrog-kun: yes, it was wrong for all bugs until now
Jun 04 23:40:12 * CoreDump|home points at 591
Jun 04 23:40:20 <balrog-kun> ah yeah
Jun 04 23:40:36 <CoreDump|home> pH5: Thanks for spotting that first ;)
Jun 04 23:40:37 <balrog-kun> ok, i found the right bugreport now
Jun 04 23:43:44 <billl_> counter
Jun 05 00:03:48 <Psi_> is it normal with phone manufacturing to have the delays the neo has had?
Jun 05 00:03:57 <woglinde> psi yes
Jun 05 00:04:07 <woglinde> psi normaly it is worser
Jun 05 00:04:43 <Psi_> if its so normal, i wonder why they didnt expect it in the estimations of the eta
Jun 05 00:05:03 <SpeedEvil> Umm.
Jun 05 00:05:07 <SpeedEvil> It's a delay.
Jun 05 00:05:15 <SpeedEvil> The best guess was what they had.
Jun 05 00:05:20 <Psi_> heh
Jun 05 00:05:26 <SpeedEvil> Delays are generally unexpected.
Jun 05 00:05:33 <woglinde> psi and you cant compare the moral of european or american buisnesmann with chinese one
Jun 05 00:05:41 <Psi_> hehe true
Jun 05 00:05:47 <woglinde> they said you get in one week
Jun 05 00:05:55 <woglinde> and than its half a year
Jun 05 00:06:18 <woglinde> that is what laforge said on friday
Jun 05 00:06:20 <Psi_> im not complaining, ive got plenty of things to do, quite busy atm, so the delays are no problem for me
Jun 05 00:06:22 <balrog-kun> i don't know if this kind of delays is normal,
Jun 05 00:06:33 <woglinde> balorg it is
Jun 05 00:06:38 <woglinde> belivme
Jun 05 00:06:39 <balrog-kun> i think other companies may have better project manager who are able to predict the delays better
Jun 05 00:06:44 <balrog-kun> and other companies worse ones
Jun 05 00:07:06 <woglinde> balrog other companies dont show the delays because the development isnt open
Jun 05 00:07:17 <mhentges> balrog-kun: the current delay may have something to do with the current internal "changes" at FIC ;) 
Jun 05 00:07:19 <Psi_> i was just curious, with FIC being such a big company one would expect them to have formulas to predict the average delays and incorporate them into their etas
Jun 05 00:08:02 <woglinde> nite to all
Jun 05 00:08:04 <woglinde> its late
Jun 05 00:08:14 <balrog-kun> i think the opennes doesn't make much difference here
Jun 05 00:08:14 <xl0> mhentges: Could we hear more about the "changes"?
Jun 05 00:08:45 <mhentges> not from me no ;)
Jun 05 00:10:05 <xl0> After seeing the neo+sun thing I'm kind of nervous, is it possible that the project may become more closed in the future?
Jun 05 00:10:18 <woglinde> ?????
Jun 05 00:10:28 <SpeedEvil> +sun?
Jun 05 00:10:28 <woglinde> harald runs gpl-violations.org
Jun 05 00:10:31 <SpeedEvil> Solar power?
Jun 05 00:10:38 <woglinde> he mean the javafx thing
Jun 05 00:10:40 <SpeedEvil> Or a stellar nursery.
Jun 05 00:10:44 <mjr> I think he means the mock screenshots of neo running the java thingy
Jun 05 00:10:57 <woglinde> mjr right
Jun 05 00:10:59 <SpeedEvil> Anyone can take the hardware and run their own crap on it.
Jun 05 00:11:10 <mjr> and yeah, SpeedEvil had the 10-point answer
Jun 05 00:11:14 <SpeedEvil> The flipside of OM is that it inherently documents phones.
Jun 05 00:11:15 <xl0> http://de.sun.com/homepage/index.html
Jun 05 00:11:29 <SpeedEvil> So if MS/... wants to, they can.
Jun 05 00:11:31 <woglinde> xl0 when know this already
Jun 05 00:11:42 <woglinde> args we
Jun 05 00:13:05 <mjr> I wouldn't really call documenting phones a flipside :]
Jun 05 00:13:15 <SpeedEvil> No - not quite.
Jun 05 00:13:25 <SpeedEvil> Though for stuff like MS/OLPC...
Jun 05 00:13:29 <xl0> But still, it's changing from "openmoko" to "openmoko or javafx at your choice"...
Jun 05 00:13:43 <SpeedEvil> Or slackware.
Jun 05 00:13:49 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 05 00:14:11 <xl0> What is this javafx stuff anyway? ;)
Jun 05 00:14:39 <SpeedEvil> You'd need it to start X, and have a WM with an accessible virtual keyboard, but you don't have to run OM stuff.
Jun 05 00:14:47 <mjr> if you don't know, why're you hyped up about it?
Jun 05 00:16:00 <xl0> mjr: Something tells me this is a proprietary solution, and google gives a tons of marketing crap...
Jun 05 00:18:56 <xl0> Or not proprietary...
Jun 05 01:07:40 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03werner * r2154 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch uboot-20061030-qt2410.patch): 
Jun 05 01:07:40 <CIA-24> openmoko: uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch:
Jun 05 01:07:40 <CIA-24> openmoko: board/neo1973/common/lowlevel_init.S (lowlevel_init): use PC-relative
Jun 05 01:07:40 <CIA-24> openmoko:  addressing so that lowlevel_init can be safely called multiple times
Jun 05 01:07:41 <CIA-24> openmoko: uboot-20061030-qt2410.patch:
Jun 05 01:07:42 <CIA-24> openmoko: board/qt2410/lowlevel_init.S (lowlevel_init): use PC-relative
Jun 05 01:07:46 <CIA-24> openmoko:  addressing so that lowlevel_init can be safely called multiple times
Jun 05 01:37:52 <richard_> Hi. Where is the "OpenMoko metadata directory"
Jun 05 01:41:29 <richard_> in "Setting up an openmoko SDK" section of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko, but I can't find OpenMoko metadata directory 
Jun 05 02:14:31 <roh> richard_ take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
Jun 05 02:30:12 <rwhitby> roh: any outstanding MokoMakefile problems that you're aware of?
Jun 05 02:34:22 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03werner * r2155 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-from-ram-and-nand.patch: cpu/arm920t/start.S: do NAND load only if OM[1:0] indicate NAND boot as well
Jun 05 02:47:18 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03werner * r2156 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/lowlevel_foo.patch: board/qt2410/Makefile: build lowlevel_foo.bin (for loading through JTAG)
Jun 05 02:49:33 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03werner * r2157 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/lowlevel_foo_qt2410.patch: lowlevel_foo_qt2410.patch has been merged with lowlevel_foo.patch
Jun 05 02:55:32 <roh> rwhitby not really atm
Jun 05 02:55:42 <roh> nothing which does not happen with plain OE ;)
Jun 05 02:56:13 <roh> some problems with qemu were there, but thats not really reproducable for me atm
Jun 05 02:56:30 <rwhitby> ok, thx
Jun 05 02:58:01 <roh> hm.. if i had the time i would want the qemu to have its own out of tree copy of hcd-dummy since i know no distrokernels which bring it precompiled (its needed for the virtual usbcable between the qemu-target and the host kernel)
Jun 05 02:59:45 <roh> in the end i think the qemu should have its own bb recipe and also be built inside that. as -native package
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 05 02:59:57 2007