**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 06 02:59:58 2007
Jun 06 03:05:55 <SpeedEvil> summatusmentis: that was the initial plan. However.
Jun 06 03:06:07 <SpeedEvil> The initial timeline had 9 months - Jan-Sep before launch.
Jun 06 03:06:22 <SpeedEvil> Now-Sep - well, it's doubtfull.
Jun 06 03:06:43 <SpeedEvil> The _hardware_ should be available.
Jun 06 03:06:58 <SpeedEvil> The software should work as a basic phone, with some more less-basic apps in there.
Jun 06 03:07:11 <SpeedEvil> And probably some quite polished apps.
Jun 06 03:07:40 <SpeedEvil> Oh - and finished the 0th cut of 
Jun 06 03:07:40 <SpeedEvil> Neglecting roll for the moment.
Jun 06 03:07:40 <SpeedEvil> 1mG is an accelleration of 1cm/s^2.
Jun 06 03:07:40 <SpeedEvil> If the accelerometers are spaced 10cm apart, then the radius between each and the center is 5cm, meaning the circumference of the circle is 30cm.
Jun 06 03:07:40 <SpeedEvil> Integrating over 1s, noise is around 3cm/s^2.
Jun 06 03:07:42 <SpeedEvil> After 1s, if you happen to hit an average noise peak in each accellerometer at the opposite point - something that'll happen once every 5-10 seconds or so, (absolute peaks are much worse) what happens to the pointing?
Jun 06 03:07:45 <SpeedEvil> Well - the velocity reads out as 6cm/s^2 wrong, which means that the position is now out by 3cm, or 10 degrees.
Jun 06 03:07:48 <SpeedEvil> gah
Jun 06 03:08:06 <SpeedEvil> of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals
Jun 06 03:10:45 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: ok... so a final, fully polished product is a ways out yet?
Jun 06 03:14:28 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 06 03:14:43 <SpeedEvil> I'd say probably december earliest.
Jun 06 03:14:49 <SpeedEvil> But there have been no announcements.
Jun 06 03:15:07 <SpeedEvil> The hardware works fine.
Jun 06 03:15:26 <SpeedEvil> So if all you want is a pocket linux X box, with a touchscreen, GPS, ... then it'll work for you now.
Jun 06 03:15:37 <SpeedEvil> (well - in a coupleo f weeksish)
Jun 06 03:15:47 <SpeedEvil> The software will carry on being updated.
Jun 06 03:18:09 <summatusmentis> nope, I've got a Zaurus, so that provides mostly what I need in that arena
Jun 06 03:18:47 <summatusmentis> I'm on CDMA right now, and i"ll be moving to an area this fall for college that doesn't have good cdma reception, so I'm looking for a functional phone
Jun 06 03:19:06 <summatusmentis> preferably doing everything my Z can, and more :-P
Jun 06 03:25:46 <hads> Get in there and help out then :)
Jun 06 03:29:37 <summatusmentis> hads: if I had any coding experience, and vast amouts of monetary funds, I would be
Jun 06 03:29:56 <summatusmentis> but as it is, I have no money, and no GSM service, and minimal coding experience
Jun 06 03:30:25 <SpeedEvil> You _can_ code without the phone.
Jun 06 03:30:40 <SpeedEvil> You don't even need an emulator for much stuff.
Jun 06 03:30:59 <SpeedEvil> As it's basically a conventional X box, just pocket-sized.
Jun 06 03:31:06 <summatusmentis> xorg?
Jun 06 03:31:07 <SpeedEvil> And touchscreen.
Jun 06 03:31:18 <SpeedEvil> Yes, it's basically a 'normal' linux distribution.
Jun 06 03:31:21 <SpeedEvil> Just for phones.
Jun 06 03:31:53 <SpeedEvil> The idea is to leverage all the nice desktop stuff.
Jun 06 03:32:04 <SpeedEvil> Rather than having to write it all from scratch.
Jun 06 03:32:30 <CoreDump|afk> summatusmentis: *cough* angstrom runs on it just fine *cough*
Jun 06 03:33:02 <summatusmentis> CoreDump|afk: :-)
Jun 06 03:33:40 <summatusmentis> SpeedEvil: yeah, sounds extremely interesting, but I don't want to plunk down $350 for a phone that isn't... polished, you know?
Jun 06 03:33:47 <SpeedEvil> Fair enough.
Jun 06 03:33:59 <summatusmentis> I don't want my contact list crashing on me, and so forth :-P
Jun 06 03:34:51 <SpeedEvil> Personally - the nice stuff it can do - I'm interested in GPS logging with voice tags over bluetooth - for example - is useful enough to me.
Jun 06 03:35:20 <summatusmentis> in case you didn't make the connection, I run Angstrom on my Zaurus, so I'm no stranger to OE and bugreports :-P
Jun 06 03:35:44 <summatusmentis> yeah, I'd just prefer my phone to Just Work(tm), you know?
Jun 06 03:36:06 <summatusmentis> then, once it does, then I can start hacking it >_>
Jun 06 03:36:44 <SpeedEvil> It is real close to working as a 'normal' basic phone - more advanced apps are some way off.
Jun 06 03:36:57 <summatusmentis> advanced apps meaning?
Jun 06 03:38:50 <SpeedEvil> media player, picture viewer, IM, ...
Jun 06 03:40:10 <summatusmentis> oh, I see
Jun 06 03:40:16 <summatusmentis> what about tethering?
Jun 06 03:40:43 <SpeedEvil> tethering?
Jun 06 03:40:53 <summatusmentis> sorry, using the phone as a modem
Jun 06 03:41:06 <SpeedEvil> You can do that now - but it's not polished.
Jun 06 03:41:21 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it.
Jun 06 03:43:32 <summatusmentis> oh cool, ok. I'm not terribly concerned about the 'polishedness' of that... that's one of the key things I want working though
Jun 06 03:44:03 <SpeedEvil> I've not actually used it though.
Jun 06 03:44:06 <SpeedEvil> So...
Jun 06 03:44:57 <summatusmentis> mm, yeah
Jun 06 03:57:24 <bmidgley> summatusmentis: tethering will be slooow
Jun 06 03:57:44 <bmidgley> low bandwidth, high latency
Jun 06 03:58:25 <summatusmentis> bmidgley: slow as in?
Jun 06 03:58:40 <summatusmentis> not to be annoying, but slow is subjective
Jun 06 03:59:19 <bmidgley> 40kbps, 1000ms round trips
Jun 06 03:59:46 <bmidgley> I've seen 600kbps using umts but the neo is only gprs
Jun 06 04:00:37 <bmidgley> that was 600kbps using bluetooth 1.1 so it might go higher w usb or bt2
Jun 06 04:00:48 <bmidgley> DUN
Jun 06 04:00:49 <summatusmentis> ok, so not terribly bad, but by no means 'broadband'
Jun 06 04:00:52 <summatusmentis> ok, thanks
Jun 06 04:03:38 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]]
Jun 06 04:05:55 <summatusmentis> thanks for the answers bmidgley, and SpeedEvil 
Jun 06 04:06:11 <summatusmentis> now, I've gotta sleep, but I'll probably be lurking for a while :-)
Jun 06 04:10:12 <happycube> i wonder what gprs class the neo's modem can do
Jun 06 04:11:43 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Jun 06 04:12:08 <SpeedEvil> I need to do a little animation of a Neo, dancing in accordance with simulated noise on the acellerometers.
Jun 06 06:19:40 <wehttamb_> counter
Jun 06 06:19:46 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week 05:40:11 (7.236±6.0 days) (1401;225)
Jun 06 06:22:07 * sparq smacks forehead
Jun 06 06:24:06 <sparq> I forgot the Neo had accelerometers! I could probably hack together a scrolling interface that way...
Jun 06 06:24:54 <sparq> I guess I have an excuse to play with a Wii now. ^_^
Jun 06 06:26:09 <agui> Hi. If I want to run qtopia-free on neo1973,  how to do it?
Jun 06 06:27:08 <aloril> agui: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 06 06:27:51 <agui> ok, thanks
Jun 06 06:28:30 <sparq> agui: I think it's technically possible, but you'd be in for a fair bit of work
Jun 06 06:32:11 <sparq> I imagine that someday, there will be enough mobile Linux devices that there will be distributions targeting multiple hardware platforms, but at the moment, each device basically requires a custom distro.
Jun 06 06:40:52 <wehttamb_> where does it say that the neo has accelerometers?
Jun 06 06:41:55 <koen> linuxtag presentation, slide 21
Jun 06 06:42:51 <wehttamb_> where is this presentation
Jun 06 06:43:36 <koen> on the internet
Jun 06 06:45:00 <wehttamb_> yea i figured that
Jun 06 06:48:33 <wehttamb_> hey i found it :)
Jun 06 06:59:44 <wehttamb_> are the accelerometers 3 axis?
Jun 06 06:59:59 <guaqua> 2 2-axis to do 3-axs
Jun 06 07:00:05 <guaqua> 2x2-axis that is
Jun 06 07:07:28 <TRIsoft> morning
Jun 06 07:18:42 <aloril> (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Accelerometer in next hardware revision?
Jun 06 07:19:08 <sparq> SpeedEvil: Drat. The Wiki doesn't seem to support equations.
Jun 06 07:36:18 <LuitvD> counter
Jun 06 07:37:09 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week 04:22:54 (7.183±6.0 days) (1402;225)
Jun 06 07:52:32 <hrw> morning
Jun 06 07:52:38 <buz> http://news.com.com/Via+trots+out+mini+notebook,+mobile+motherboard/2100-1041_3-6188565.html via wants to put x86 chips into phones???
Jun 06 07:53:10 <hrw> why not?
Jun 06 07:54:11 <buz> so far they dont really have any that dont suck oodles of power
Jun 06 07:57:59 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r2170 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): 
Jun 06 07:57:59 <CIA-24> openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_infoline_new), (child_setup),
Jun 06 07:57:59 <CIA-24> openmoko: (today_launcher_clicked_cb), (create_ui):
Jun 06 07:57:59 <CIA-24> openmoko: Use argv array to start applications. Open the dialer with --show-missed when
Jun 06 07:57:59 <CIA-24> openmoko: missed call info is clicked
Jun 06 08:19:30 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jun 06 08:19:31 <lrak> yeah .. but the phones arent supposed to be turned on
Jun 06 08:23:05 <tri> hi
Jun 06 08:36:28 <Stephmw> mornin'
Jun 06 08:39:02 <LuitvD> morning
Jun 06 08:47:53 <TRIsoft> Something from Computex: http://www.texyt.com/FIC+OpenMoko+$350+open+Linux+mobile+phone+launch+00100
Jun 06 08:49:33 <Moo^^> digg'ed it! :)
Jun 06 08:58:24 <lrak> The topic has been updated
Jun 06 09:08:49 <cheesy> counter
Jun 06 09:08:57 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week 02:51:04 (7.119±6.0 days) (1403;225)
Jun 06 09:37:14 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03njp * r2171 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-history.c dialer-window-outgoing.c): Fix call ordering in history; Clean up journal code for outgoing calls
Jun 06 09:44:05 <nobody96> moin
Jun 06 10:03:07 <nobody96> has anyone encounterd a missing asm/page.h error during the perl-native build?
Jun 06 10:03:18 <nobody96> and got it fixed?
Jun 06 10:03:38 <nobody96> argl... denglisch
Jun 06 10:03:42 <nobody96> fixed ist?
Jun 06 10:03:53 <nobody96> i need more coffe, sry
Jun 06 10:03:56 <nobody96> -t
Jun 06 10:03:57 <Placid> heh
Jun 06 10:04:01 <Placid> +e
Jun 06 10:05:17 <hrw> nobody96: openmoko use old OE snapshot. this bug was fixed in OE
Jun 06 10:06:40 <nobody96> and what am i supposed to do now? :)
Jun 06 10:07:02 <nobody96> im not used to the devel enviroment yet
Jun 06 10:07:17 <hrw> complain to bugtracker
Jun 06 10:08:39 <nobody96> ok...
Jun 06 10:10:17 <nobody96> http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=444 already there
Jun 06 10:10:45 <nobody96> nice, i have to use 2.6.21 to build qemu properly but than i cannot build the devel-env
Jun 06 10:11:35 <nobody96> nice, i have to use 2.6.21 to build qemu properly but than i cannot build the devel-env
Jun 06 10:11:38 <nobody96> hu
Jun 06 10:11:39 <nobody96> sry
Jun 06 10:19:01 <SpeedEvil> sparq: the neo - the to be released in a couple of weeks model - doesn't.
Jun 06 10:19:23 <Placid> wow nobody, you really need coffee :P
Jun 06 10:19:31 <SpeedEvil> sparq: and the equations were just typed as x * y - I don't know if it does or doesn't.
Jun 06 10:21:10 <sparq> SpeedEvil: I tried retyping them using the MediaWiki math format used on WikiPedia, and it doesn't seem to know what to do with it
Jun 06 10:32:27 <SpeedEvil> sparq: Oh
Jun 06 10:34:09 <nobody96> Placid, now i got one :)
Jun 06 10:34:19 <Placid> nobody96: grats :D enjoy!
Jun 06 10:34:25 <nobody96> i doo
Jun 06 10:34:33 <nobody96> -o
Jun 06 10:35:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03thomas * r2172 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c src/today-main.c): 
Jun 06 10:35:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c: (get_property), (init_left_hand_side): Add icon to
Jun 06 10:35:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: events area
Jun 06 10:35:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_launcher_button_new): Fix launchers
Jun 06 10:37:54 <sparq> SpeedEvil: There's probably a plugin or something.
Jun 06 10:38:38 <SpeedEvil> Or there is always the 'little gif' solution.
Jun 06 10:38:47 <SpeedEvil> But they are not that important.
Jun 06 10:39:09 <SpeedEvil> The important demo I suspect is a graphical one.
Jun 06 10:39:16 <SpeedEvil> Show a stationary neo.
Jun 06 10:39:34 * Herod2k esce a dopo
Jun 06 10:39:52 <SpeedEvil> Now, compute random noise on the accelerometers, and integrate it so that it gives an apparent position.
Jun 06 10:40:08 <SpeedEvil> Turn the neo into this position - and continue as an animation.
Jun 06 10:40:56 <SpeedEvil> To give an idea of the fake motion that you have to ignore.
Jun 06 10:41:58 <SpeedEvil> With gravity, it'll basically be a slow random spin about the gravity axis - increasing the more the phone is tilted vertical
Jun 06 10:43:37 <Placid> :O
Jun 06 11:23:42 <SpeedEvil> I was wondering why the accelerometer Harald posted that they were considering had no stated noise figure in the datasheet. That'd be because it's a 7 bit ADC that can't resolve the noise...
Jun 06 11:25:22 <SpeedEvil> This makes it essentially useless for anything but detecting the pitch/yaw of the phone now. You can't do meaningful dead reckoning even in a car, with it strapped down.
Jun 06 11:26:05 <ewon> why would you want to do dead reckoning with it when we have a gps receiver?
Jun 06 11:26:17 <SpeedEvil> GPS recievers don't work so well in tunnels.
Jun 06 11:26:51 <ewon> ah
Jun 06 11:26:53 <SpeedEvil> With the accelerometer in the Wii - used optimally - you get about 30-60s of useful information.
Jun 06 11:27:06 <SpeedEvil> And a bit more than that of rough heading information.
Jun 06 11:28:23 <SpeedEvil> I need to do some actual sums and research.
Jun 06 11:28:47 <cheesy> so maybe in the future i can use my phone as wiimote ;)
Jun 06 11:28:51 <SpeedEvil> That one harald linked to is comparatively expensive - it may be possible to get cheaper and better at the same time with a two-chip solution.
Jun 06 11:29:06 <SpeedEvil> It'd need a camera. - generally.
Jun 06 11:29:26 <SpeedEvil> The wiimote has a little few thousand pixel camera that picks up the 'sensor bar'.
Jun 06 11:30:31 <cheesy> ok..i just play..i don't know exactly how it works..but you can replace the sonsor bar with two candles
Jun 06 11:32:12 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - they emit enough IR that it's picked up.
Jun 06 11:34:54 <cheesy> ok! now I learned something! thx SpeedEvil
Jun 06 12:12:33 <sxpert-work> having the following problem with mokomakefile / mtn:    37.7 M |     1.9 M | 23,398/23,398 | 5,785/5,785
Jun 06 12:12:33 <sxpert-work> mtn: error: I/O failure while talking to peer monotone.openembedded.org, disconnecting
Jun 06 12:12:33 <sxpert-work> make: *** [setup-mtn] Error 1
Jun 06 12:12:57 <zecke> sxpert-work: retry?
Jun 06 12:12:57 <sxpert-work> apparently running "make setup" again downloads the whole .bz2 file again...
Jun 06 12:13:06 <sxpert-work> which is rather useless :'(
Jun 06 12:13:47 <jsmanrique> hi
Jun 06 12:13:54 <sxpert-work> retying downloads the OE.mtn.bz2 file again and spews :
Jun 06 12:13:56 <sxpert-work> bunzip2: Output file OE.mtn already exists.
Jun 06 12:13:56 <sxpert-work> make: *** [setup-mtn] Error 1
Jun 06 12:13:59 <rwhitby> sxpert-work: so look in the Makefile and run the commands it would run
Jun 06 12:14:04 <sxpert-work> ok
Jun 06 12:14:48 <rwhitby> and then think of how it could be written differently, but not fail in the case where the file is only half downloaded ...
Jun 06 12:15:06 <sxpert-work> heh
Jun 06 12:15:30 <sxpert-work> guess it should test for an existing OE.mtn file ...
Jun 06 12:17:19 <SpeedEvil> How does it try to download?
Jun 06 12:17:51 <sxpert-work> with wget or somethign.
Jun 06 12:17:57 <SpeedEvil> add the -c flag?
Jun 06 12:18:02 <SpeedEvil> wget -c url 
Jun 06 12:18:12 <sxpert-work> thing is, bunzipping the file gives a OE.mtn file only.
Jun 06 12:18:12 <rwhitby> already has it
Jun 06 12:18:14 <SpeedEvil> if the file is up to date just does nothing
Jun 06 12:18:18 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 06 12:18:38 <SpeedEvil> Add the -k flag to bzip
Jun 06 12:18:42 <SpeedEvil> Add the -k flag to bzip2
Jun 06 12:18:49 <SpeedEvil> to make it not delete the file
Jun 06 12:18:50 <sxpert-work> yeah.
Jun 06 12:19:44 <sxpert-work> and bunzip2 fails if OE.mtn is already there, duh !
Jun 06 12:20:31 <SpeedEvil> Adding -f will force bzip to overwrite
Jun 06 12:20:52 <sxpert-work> yeah, but that would overwrite all monotone modifications 
Jun 06 12:20:58 <SpeedEvil> Hmm
Jun 06 12:21:21 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r96 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Made bunzip2 keep the original file until the mtn operations are completed, and also made it overwrite an existing file.
Jun 06 12:21:54 <rwhitby> sxpert-work, SpeedEvil: thanks for the input
Jun 06 12:22:11 <sxpert-work> rwhitby: no problem :D
Jun 06 12:23:41 <sxpert-work> rwhitby: well bunzip2 should only be run if the OE.mtn file is not there
Jun 06 12:23:47 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 06 12:24:24 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, please please add an option like so "make qemu-run-vnc"...and thanks for the mokomakefile
Jun 06 12:25:49 <rwhitby> sxpert-work: have to run bunzip2 again, in case you run out of disk space half-way through decompressing, and then free up some place, and then run this again without removing the half-written output file
Jun 06 12:26:09 <rwhitby> s/place/space/
Jun 06 12:26:10 <apt> rwhitby meant: sxpert-work: have to run bunzip2 again, in case you run out of disk space half-way through decompressing, and then free up some space, and then run this again without removing the half-written output file
Jun 06 12:27:06 <rwhitby> Sup3rkiddo: what would 'qemu-run-vnc' do?
Jun 06 12:29:28 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, it would redirect the display over vnc session, just add '-vnc localhost:1 -monitor stdio' as an option 
Jun 06 12:31:07 <rwhitby> Sup3rkiddo: does it do that instead of the normal display, or as well as the normal display?
Jun 06 12:31:43 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, i guess instead..you use a vncviewer, to get the display..
Jun 06 12:32:14 <sxpert-work> rwhitby: ah yeah, that. you need some way to note that the bunzip2 process was successful so that you don't run over an already successful one
Jun 06 12:33:20 <rwhitby> sxpert-work: starting to get a bit too complex, just to save the time of the bunzip2, on a target which should only ever be run once if it works.
Jun 06 12:33:54 <rwhitby> Sup3rkiddo: if you give the -vnc option, does it do that as well as the normal window?  If so, I can just add it to the normal target.
Jun 06 12:34:25 <sxpert-work> rwhitby: it's more like saving the time of doing monotone work that re-running bunzip2 would undo
Jun 06 12:35:33 <rwhitby> ok, that's true.
Jun 06 12:36:03 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, no...with a -vnc option set, you wont get a display unless you use some vnc viewer..so i dont think there would be many happy faces if you append the options to the existing target
Jun 06 12:36:27 <rwhitby> Sup3rkiddo: that's why I was asking :-)
Jun 06 12:37:05 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, :), i guess the closest analogy is that of xoo...but man, thanks for the script...will buy you a pint someday
Jun 06 12:40:15 <rwhitby> sxpert-work: I'm splitting setup-mtn into two targets
Jun 06 12:40:46 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Address_Field]] [[Screen_Grabber]] [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]]
Jun 06 12:44:15 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r97 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Split the downloading of OE.mtn.bz2 from the monotone migrate and pull, to save doing things twice if something fails.
Jun 06 12:44:33 <rwhitby> sxpert-work: take a look at that one
Jun 06 12:46:36 * sxpert-work tries
Jun 06 12:46:55 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03rwhitby * r98 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added run-qemu-vnc target
Jun 06 12:47:03 <rwhitby> Sup3rkiddo: please test that
Jun 06 12:49:56 <Sup3rkiddo> rwhitby, yup..works..thanks
Jun 06 12:51:25 <rwhitby> sxpert-work: success?
Jun 06 12:52:50 <sxpert-work> looks good
Jun 06 12:54:01 <abraxa_> rwhitby: What does that target do?
Jun 06 12:54:23 <rwhitby> abraxa_: look up a page or two
Jun 06 12:54:31 <abraxa_> I just joined the chan :)
Jun 06 12:54:33 <rwhitby> oh, you just joined
Jun 06 12:54:38 <rwhitby> ask Sup3rkiddo :-)
Jun 06 12:54:42 <abraxa_> hehe okie
Jun 06 12:55:03 <abraxa_> Sup3rkiddo, mind enlightening me?
Jun 06 12:55:14 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, redirects the display over a vnc session,,,
Jun 06 12:55:56 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, you have been enlightened
Jun 06 12:56:07 <abraxa_> Indeed ;)
Jun 06 12:56:28 <abraxa_> I take it you don't use it when running qemu locally, so what do you use it for?
Jun 06 12:57:15 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, i was having troubles with certain key combinations...running it over vnc solved it
Jun 06 12:57:28 <abraxa_> Interesting...
Jun 06 12:57:43 <rwhitby> ~emulate rwhitby
Jun 06 12:57:45 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, dont ask me how..i havent got an idea
Jun 06 12:57:55 <Sup3rkiddo> :|
Jun 06 12:57:58 <apt> Another Satisfied Customer!
Jun 06 12:59:07 <kiney> counter
Jun 06 12:59:07 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 6 days 23:00:49 (6.959±6.0 days) (1404;225)
Jun 06 13:00:48 <Sup3rkiddo> abraxa_, ask empty_mind..he might know whatsup
Jun 06 13:08:29 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03njp * r2173 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-history.c dialer-window-outgoing.c): Added some printf's for outgoing calls, to detect segfault
Jun 06 13:17:45 <aloril> seems counter page (and counter probability needs updating, later today or tomorrow)
Jun 06 13:44:08 <zecke> abraxa_: just ask here :)
Jun 06 13:44:31 <abraxa_> zecke: Oh, it's about how you set up your development environment and all
Jun 06 13:44:48 <zecke> abraxa_: it is best suited here :)
Jun 06 13:44:54 <abraxa_> okie then
Jun 06 13:45:09 <zecke> abraxa_: I have a Feisty Fawn, develop against gtk+ 2.10
Jun 06 13:45:13 <abraxa_> Do you test it by running it directly under X or do you use Zephy/qemu/whatever?
Jun 06 13:45:27 <zecke> abraxa_: I use remote X to the Xserver on my mac
Jun 06 13:45:41 <abraxa_> And how do you resolve the dependencies on the openmoko libs?
Jun 06 13:45:53 <abraxa_> Did you compile and install them locally?
Jun 06 13:46:23 <zecke> abraxa_: I have /space/zecke/private/openmoko/install and install everything there (--prefix the_dir)
Jun 06 13:46:38 <zecke> abraxa_: this includes deps of the RSS Reader itself, EDS and openmoko-libs
Jun 06 13:46:49 <abraxa_> As in configure --prefix foo?
Jun 06 13:46:59 <zecke> abraxa_: and then you simply set PKG_CONFIG_PATH to the right spot and everything should be fine
Jun 06 13:47:02 <zecke> abraxa_: yes
Jun 06 13:47:13 <abraxa_> Ah okie
Jun 06 13:47:38 <abraxa_> I tried that but I couldn't get all openmoko libs to compile on my system because they themselves had dependencies I couldn't resolve
Jun 06 13:47:45 <abraxa_> I'll give it a shot again later, though
Jun 06 13:47:46 <aloril> near end of http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984 Sean talks availability for GTA01Bv4 (if I understood it correctly)
Jun 06 13:48:16 <aloril> date mentioned is late June or very early July, but I didn't get whether he mean Taiwan only or whole world
Jun 06 13:48:23 <abraxa_> I figured it would be easier to use the bitbake system and test under qemu but that was not so successful...
Jun 06 13:48:51 <aloril> anybody else watched that?
Jun 06 13:49:10 <abraxa_> Not me, aloril :)
Jun 06 13:49:12 <DukeOfURL> yes, very interesting
Jun 06 13:52:35 <nroej> hi
Jun 06 13:53:02 <abraxa_> Hewwos
Jun 06 13:54:05 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03njp * r2174 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: More debugging
Jun 06 13:54:28 <cheesy> is the whole video in a language i don't understand?
Jun 06 13:55:08 <slider_> after 5 minutes or so ist english
Jun 06 13:55:16 <slider_> *its
Jun 06 13:55:22 <abraxa_> What is it before that?
Jun 06 13:55:44 <cheesy> thank you slider :)
Jun 06 13:55:57 <cheesy> something from asia
Jun 06 13:56:01 <abraxa_> oh
Jun 06 13:56:23 <cheesy> chinese japanese or smthg like that
Jun 06 13:57:10 <aloril> cheesy: most of it is in English (didn't understand anything about that start part, don't ever recognize who is talking)
Jun 06 13:58:09 <cheesy> i'm in the english part now ;)
Jun 06 13:59:36 <abraxa_> zecke: Thanks for the input - and the RSS reader fails to compile here btw with an implicit declaration of mrss_parse_url_and_transfer_buffer
Jun 06 13:59:39 <abraxa_> Is this known to you?
Jun 06 13:59:47 <ewon> has anyone ported a media player to the moko yet?
Jun 06 14:00:11 <abraxa_> ewon: Not yet, though I'm working on the music player
Jun 06 14:00:18 <pH5> mplayer :)
Jun 06 14:01:10 * balrog-kun copied a couple of videos to his Neo but had no time to install mplayer for testing
Jun 06 14:02:25 <Placid> Please don't tell me the Neo will be capable of running mplayer...
Jun 06 14:02:51 <ewon> *shrugs*
Jun 06 14:02:59 <ewon> if a palm zire71 can play video...
Jun 06 14:03:07 <ewon> and that had a shitty dragonball cpu
Jun 06 14:03:10 <zecke> abraxa_: sure, you need a patch for libmrss
Jun 06 14:03:46 <pH5> Placid: sure, why not? I only really used it to play ogg vorbis files though.
Jun 06 14:03:48 <zecke> abraxa_: this is a shortcut und I'm not yet certain I want to send this method upstream.
Jun 06 14:03:51 <Placid> Jesus if it can use mplayer (my favourite media player), then i'm going to wet myself
Jun 06 14:04:03 <abraxa_> zecke: Hmm, I'm just doing the openmoko-devel-image so I was a little surprised to see it fail
Jun 06 14:04:18 <abraxa_> zecke: Ah okay, so is this breakage expected behavior as of now?
Jun 06 14:04:31 <balrog-kun> Placid: mplayers run on my 60MHz 32 MB-of-ram ARM
Jun 06 14:04:44 <zecke> abraxa_: oh, no this is not supposed to fail
Jun 06 14:04:58 <zecke> abraxa_: the patch is in OE and in OpenMoko's fork of the meta data
Jun 06 14:05:09 <abraxa_> zecke: I wonder why it fails then...
Jun 06 14:05:14 <Placid> I JUST WET MYSELF
Jun 06 14:05:29 <Placid> I want a neo even more now
Jun 06 14:05:42 <hena> well, mplayer isn't that heavy app, why wouldn't it?
Jun 06 14:05:44 <abraxa_> Placid: Don't we all ;)
Jun 06 14:05:57 <hena> it's them some codecs that require a lot of cpu 
Jun 06 14:06:02 <zecke> abraxa_: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko the last nighly buuld just worked fine
Jun 06 14:06:07 <Placid> abraxa_: quite :)
Jun 06 14:06:09 <ewon> yeah, the video will need to be encoded with care
Jun 06 14:06:13 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player
Jun 06 14:06:20 <ewon> can't really fire a hidef xvid at it ors and expect 30fps :)
Jun 06 14:06:23 <SpeedEvil> overview of likely state of decoding
Jun 06 14:06:39 <abraxa_> zecke: Ah okay, so I guess I'll just wipe my stuff and start the build from scratch...
Jun 06 14:06:44 <Placid> was there a decision made on the scripting language openmoko will use/install by default?
Jun 06 14:06:58 <zecke> abraxa_: not so drastic, just svn up the OE dir and rebuild libmrss
Jun 06 14:07:14 <SpeedEvil> 120*160 video is probably quite adequate.
Jun 06 14:07:18 <abraxa_> Placid: bash? I dunno, using a high-level language for scripting might be a tad slow from what I gather
Jun 06 14:07:49 <ewon> and I thought watching porn on my 6230i was amusing...
Jun 06 14:07:58 <abraxa_> zecke: I thought the MokoMakefile was doing just that with every run already?
Jun 06 14:08:09 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: think of it as a Pentium 100.
Jun 06 14:08:19 <abraxa_> zecke: Well, aside from rebuilding libmrss... which I should do first then
Jun 06 14:08:22 * ewon learnt to code on a dx-66
Jun 06 14:08:22 <Placid> abraxa_: sure. i'd like to code some perl while i'm on the train and chatting to friends via screen running irssi on a server of mine
Jun 06 14:08:26 <drath> uhm, wasn't there a slide that said the P1+ device would have 2D/3D and MPEG4 acceleration?
Jun 06 14:08:28 <Placid> abraxa_: you know, general geek stuff.
Jun 06 14:08:34 <SpeedEvil> drath: perhaps.
Jun 06 14:08:39 <ewon> you know you're getting old when your phone is more powerful than your first x86 desktop
Jun 06 14:08:39 <SpeedEvil> It's being evaluated.
Jun 06 14:08:59 <Placid> lol
Jun 06 14:09:03 <Placid> indeed ewon
Jun 06 14:09:24 <drath> ah, just saw a picture from the slide mentioning the GTA02, and thought that was already finalized
Jun 06 14:09:29 <abraxa_> Placid: Ah okay then, it just seems that some people expect a little too much from this phone performance-wise so I'm a little more conservative on the expectations ;x
Jun 06 14:10:05 <Placid> abraxa_: i respect that. i'm sure I come across as expecting it to be a cray, but i don't mean that.
Jun 06 14:10:17 <ewon> PocketCray(tm)
Jun 06 14:10:22 <Placid> hehe
Jun 06 14:10:35 <Placid> OpenCray :P
Jun 06 14:10:40 <abraxa_> hehe
Jun 06 14:11:02 <ewon> you drop it, and the flourinert leaks out...
Jun 06 14:11:09 <abraxa_> Placid: Yeah, I understand
Jun 06 14:11:22 * SpeedEvil is currently working up a proposal for a second core for the neo.
Jun 06 14:11:25 <Placid> abraxa_: :)
Jun 06 14:11:29 <Placid> nice
Jun 06 14:11:34 <SpeedEvil> However, it's only a PIC :)
Jun 06 14:12:44 <SpeedEvil> (it works out cheaper to use a PIC + 3 axis accelerometer and be an I2C peripheral, rather than buy a canned one. Not to mention that it's an extra 3 bits of resolution.
Jun 06 14:13:13 * hena is frustrated with psp
Jun 06 14:13:20 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 06 14:13:29 <Stephmw> SpeedEvil: would there be enough space on existing boards?
Jun 06 14:13:30 <SpeedEvil> The hardware is almost very cool.
Jun 06 14:13:35 <hena> yup
Jun 06 14:13:55 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%)
Jun 06 14:13:56 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) 
Jun 06 14:14:02 <SpeedEvil> Stephmw: it's a couple of very small chips. 18 pin QFN - 4mm*4mm or so
Jun 06 14:14:39 <aloril> (few new links (one if I already pasted here) and fudging estimates based on those, probably too optimistic)
Jun 06 14:14:40 <hena> a device with so much potential can be ruined so amazingly well
Jun 06 14:14:41 <hena> should be in guinness book of records or something :/
Jun 06 14:15:29 <SpeedEvil> hena: Open PSP, with UMD-RW would be awesome.
Jun 06 14:16:14 <hena> yup
Jun 06 14:16:39 <hena> actually, i'd just get rid of the UMD and put something else 
Jun 06 14:16:49 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03njp * r2175 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: Show talking window before callign prepare
Jun 06 14:16:51 <happycube> these days ya might as well use SD cards
Jun 06 14:17:10 <SpeedEvil> True I suppose.
Jun 06 14:17:16 <SpeedEvil> SD cards are getting quite cheap.
Jun 06 14:17:18 <hena> microcards are quite enough and more handly also :)
Jun 06 14:17:26 <SpeedEvil> Was looking at 1G microSD cards yesterday.
Jun 06 14:17:31 <hena> memsticks
Jun 06 14:17:32 <Placid> microSD cards are too small
Jun 06 14:17:39 <Placid> I have a 1GB for my NDS
Jun 06 14:17:47 <SpeedEvil> IMO - they work well for 'fixed' drives.
Jun 06 14:17:50 <ewon> UMD is cock
Jun 06 14:18:05 <SpeedEvil> UMD - RO is.
Jun 06 14:18:14 <hena> dunno, i'm happy with them, they just need a proper pocket or something
Jun 06 14:19:01 <hena> id change the umd for MMU anytime
Jun 06 14:19:08 <SpeedEvil> MMU?
Jun 06 14:19:20 <hena> memory management unit
Jun 06 14:19:29 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't have one?
Jun 06 14:19:33 <happycube> nope
Jun 06 14:19:48 <happycube> although if it had an mmu it'd probably be harder to hack ;)
Jun 06 14:19:50 <SpeedEvil> Odd CPU decision.
Jun 06 14:19:54 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 06 14:20:19 <abraxa_> zecke: How do you test your application(s) regarding screen estate? The header/footer eat some of it on the phone so do you run those as well or do you set the X display size to the area that your application can actually use?
Jun 06 14:20:30 <hena> if it had that, the hardware would be completely cool
Jun 06 14:20:34 * SpeedEvil wants to know that too.
Jun 06 14:20:50 <zecke> abraxa_: I assume it will layout just fine :)
Jun 06 14:21:07 <zecke> abraxa_: the only thing I sometimes try is to think how it would look like on a qvga display
Jun 06 14:21:10 <abraxa_> zecke: So what resolution do you use for your X server?
Jun 06 14:21:31 <zecke> abraxa_: the sizing of the column view creates a headache...
Jun 06 14:21:41 <zecke> abraxa_: DPI wise it is just a normal widescreen monitor
Jun 06 14:22:32 <abraxa_> zecke: I think I should make a wiki page about this... I'm sure it'll benefit others as well to know how to build apps this way
Jun 06 14:27:42 <lrak> ping anybody at Taiwan
Jun 06 14:33:31 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03njp * r2176 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-outgoing.c dialer-window-talking.c): More debugging
Jun 06 14:36:12 * lrak  pings anybody at Taiwan
Jun 06 14:40:53 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Jun 06 14:51:56 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03njp * r2177 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-finger-tool-box.c: Added some error checking
Jun 06 14:59:04 <tri> hm that sounds nice: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Calendar
Jun 06 14:59:08 <tri> It would be great to convince Pimlico to port their great DateBK Application to OpenMoko. It has a very rich feature list.
Jun 06 14:59:22 <abraxa_> ...and the Braunschweig Connection joins at once :)
Jun 06 14:59:45 <tri> :-)
Jun 06 15:00:30 <tri> Braunschweig may only have internet a few hours every week - and no it is there ones again...
Jun 06 15:01:17 <abraxa_> hehe possibly
Jun 06 15:04:27 <alphaone> lol
Jun 06 15:04:51 <alphaone> tri: It's more the bouncer that is problematic at times...
Jun 06 15:31:04 <hrw> cu all
Jun 06 15:48:58 <PBeck> hi
Jun 06 15:49:11 <PBeck> hi
Jun 06 15:49:17 <SpeedEvil> hihi
Jun 06 16:01:00 <LuitvD> huh?
Jun 06 16:01:29 <LuitvD> (that's my way of saying hi)
Jun 06 16:03:00 <TRIsoft> hi and bye :D
Jun 06 16:19:22 <PBeck> hm is september a possible date for P2?
Jun 06 16:19:54 <PBeck> i heard the interview from Michael Lauer and he mean we need 5 till 6 months after P1
Jun 06 16:20:57 <PBeck> November / December would be possible than
Jun 06 16:22:08 <aloril2> PBeck: P1+/P1.5 could be September, but I guess P2 is later (mainly software difference)
Jun 06 16:22:43 <loufoque> do we know what's the hardware upgrade for P1.5 is?
Jun 06 16:22:51 <loufoque> s/ is//
Jun 06 16:22:51 <apt> loufoque meant: do we know what's the hardware upgrade for P1.5?
Jun 06 16:22:55 <aloril2> mainly == 'I guess there could be some minor fixes?'
Jun 06 16:23:31 <PBeck> aloril2: what is P1+ and P1.5?
Jun 06 16:23:50 <aloril2> GTA02v? : P1+/P1.5 and P2
Jun 06 16:24:06 <PBeck> ???
Jun 06 16:24:38 <PBeck> GTA02 devices for developers in P1+?
Jun 06 16:24:56 <PBeck> and for what is P1.5?
Jun 06 16:25:02 <aloril2> P1: GTA01Bv4: *no*, wifi, etc.: probably June for developers (not recommened for ohers)
Jun 06 16:25:18 <aloril2> s:oher:other:
Jun 06 16:25:25 <PBeck> i have never heard from P1.5
Jun 06 16:25:42 <PBeck> i know P1 and P2
Jun 06 16:25:54 <aloril2> P1+/P1.5: GTA02 for developers when its ready for mass production
Jun 06 16:26:10 <aloril2> P1+==P1.5
Jun 06 16:26:32 <PBeck> ok
Jun 06 16:26:58 <aloril2> P2: GTA02 + mass market ready software which developers of course can update themself
Jun 06 16:27:02 <PBeck> and why you call for it two names?
Jun 06 16:27:37 * aloril2 has seen both P1+ and P1.5 terms ;-)
Jun 06 16:40:07 <PBeck> aloril2: ok ;)
Jun 06 16:40:56 <robster> w/ 5
Jun 06 16:53:08 <loufoque> aloril: will GTA02 have wifi?
Jun 06 16:53:41 <loufoque> I've heard a few prototypes were showed in taiwan
Jun 06 16:53:44 <SpeedEvil> It's been stated that it will
Jun 06 16:54:02 <SpeedEvil> Err
Jun 06 16:54:06 <miip_> loufoque:  yes according to this -> http://www.vanille-media.de/misc/openmoko-lt2007.pdf
Jun 06 16:57:02 <loufoque> what are Beschleuniger and Beschleunigungssensoren ?
Jun 06 16:57:36 <MacNorthXP>  Beschleunigungssensore == accelerometer
Jun 06 16:58:13 <balrog-kun> isn't that obviouse :)
Jun 06 16:58:22 <balrog-kun> *obvious
Jun 06 16:58:59 <loufoque> so Beschleuniger is acceleration?
Jun 06 16:59:06 <miip_> yes
Jun 06 16:59:17 <loufoque> that means GTA02 has 3D acceleration
Jun 06 16:59:48 <miip_> exactly :)
Jun 06 17:00:14 <don-o> GTA02 will have 3D accelerated graphics? ATI or NVIDIA? :)
Jun 06 17:00:26 <don-o> terms can be so confusing.
Jun 06 17:01:07 <don-o> 3D accelerometers is a much better description.
Jun 06 17:02:20 <balrog-kun> no, afaik it really means 3D graphics acceleration (apart from the accelerometer stuff)
Jun 06 17:02:34 <loufoque> those were two distinct elements
Jun 06 17:02:34 <guaqua> accelerator vs accelometer
Jun 06 17:02:42 <loufoque> 2D/3D Beschleuniger
Jun 06 17:02:47 <loufoque> Beschleunigungssensoren
Jun 06 17:02:55 <balrog-kun> so the terms were not confused here
Jun 06 17:03:10 <don-o> interesting.
Jun 06 17:03:41 <guaqua> Beschleunigung = acceleration
Jun 06 17:03:52 <guaqua> Beschleunigungssensor = acceleration sensor
Jun 06 17:06:22 <loufoque> that's the chip
Jun 06 17:06:23 <loufoque> [19:02] <loufoque> 2D/3D Beschleuniger
Jun 06 17:06:26 <loufoque> oops wrong paste
Jun 06 17:06:32 <loufoque> http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm
Jun 06 17:08:26 <SpeedEvil> Woot. Another two page meaningless datasheet.
Jun 06 17:09:18 <orospakr> they'll need to write a Free Software DRI/Mesa/X driver for it.
Jun 06 17:09:24 <guaqua> 1,2Mb, SpeedEvil :)
Jun 06 17:09:42 <guaqua> err
Jun 06 17:09:43 <guaqua> MB
Jun 06 17:11:28 <SpeedEvil> orospakr: which of course means that it's a task only the core team can do.
Jun 06 17:11:41 <SpeedEvil> Which will mean that there are important things that they can't do.
Jun 06 17:11:47 <balrog-kun> unless they chose one that for some strangest reason already has a driver
Jun 06 17:11:58 <balrog-kun> hopefully it's an open one
Jun 06 17:12:37 <SpeedEvil> I diddn't see any mention of that the other day when someone of the core team - I forget - was asked of it.
Jun 06 17:12:48 <SpeedEvil> maybe ro h
Jun 06 17:18:31 <LuitvD> lolz, I guess I could have done Consumer Research at Chicago's university
Jun 06 17:19:03 <LuitvD> ... those guys just realized consumer's choice is based on skill-based habits
Jun 06 17:19:55 <LuitvD> and consumers see adapted habits as quality... even though those habits could be bad ones
Jun 06 17:20:49 * SpeedEvil ponders what skill-based habits nuns have.
Jun 06 17:21:06 <LuitvD> on computers: none
Jun 06 17:21:20 <LuitvD> that's why those people should use linux, when confronted with a pc :P
Jun 06 17:22:13 <LuitvD> both linux' habits and windows' habits are (easily) adoptable... though switching from one to the other is the problem
Jun 06 17:23:27 <LuitvD> that's why newcomers to smartphones should have the ability to start off on the right foot (openmoko :) )
Jun 06 17:39:49 <woglinde> hi laforge
Jun 06 18:08:30 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2178 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (pcf50633.patch series): Add first, untested version of PCF50633 kernel driver
Jun 06 18:34:41 <pjz> PCF50633 is the PMU. cool.
Jun 06 18:35:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 596 has been created by mickey@vanille-media.de
Jun 06 18:35:58 <cdbot2> * * dfu transfer very slow
Jun 06 18:35:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=596
Jun 06 18:36:13 <Vegar> the PMU in the neo?
Jun 06 18:40:53 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Connection_Status]]
Jun 06 18:42:45 <pjz> Vegar: yup
Jun 06 18:46:25 <noesc> have all of the dev phones been shipped out? (I'm interested in developing)
Jun 06 18:46:26 <aloril> noesc: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 06 18:56:21 <webjames> Hello!
Jun 06 18:57:39 <abraxa_> 'ello webjames
Jun 06 18:58:01 <webjames> 'ello 'ello abraxa_, any news?
Jun 06 18:58:16 <guaqua> 'o 'l
Jun 06 18:58:42 <abraxa_> noesc: You won't get a phase 0 phone if you haven't already received one and the publically available phase 1 phones aren't for sale yet
Jun 06 18:59:23 <abraxa_> webjames: I'm making progress if that's what you mean :)
Jun 06 18:59:25 <noesc> abraxa_: Thanks for the information.
Jun 06 19:00:01 <webjames> abraxa_, good good :)
Jun 06 19:01:46 <abraxa_> noesc: So yes, you can get one as soon as they become available ;)
Jun 06 19:01:54 <abraxa_> We're all waiting, too, lol
Jun 06 19:02:48 <noesc> abraxa_: I was interested in developing
Jun 06 19:03:58 <abraxa_> noesc: Purely software related? If so then you can already begin
Jun 06 19:04:09 <noesc> abraxa_: redundant dialog in here is pretty pointless anyway, I already emailed the address on the site with my development background.
Jun 06 19:04:49 <noesc> abraxa_: not purely software, I have extensive hardware / EE exp as well
Jun 06 19:05:05 <guaqua> redundant dialog with fellow devs in an open source project
Jun 06 19:05:11 <guaqua> am i missing something here?
Jun 06 19:05:34 <abraxa_> noesc: I take it you're applying for a freelancer position then?
Jun 06 19:05:43 <noesc> guaqua: I think you misinterepreted.
Jun 06 19:05:56 <noesc> -e*
Jun 06 19:06:15 <noesc> abraxa_: firstly, what is your position with the project?
Jun 06 19:06:31 <abraxa_> I'm a hobbyist? ;)
Jun 06 19:07:07 <noesc> abraxa_: Again then, I will wait for an official response via my email request to openmoko. :)
Jun 06 19:08:03 <abraxa_> Welp, alrighties
Jun 06 19:21:49 <cworth> Drat. Looks like I've got 3 dead batteries and 2 phones that refuse to charge them.
Jun 06 19:22:04 * cworth had been hoping not to see a charging bug in the second phone...
Jun 06 19:22:27 <guaqua> not very impressive
Jun 06 19:22:52 <zecke> cworth: are you sure? mine was able to get charged
Jun 06 19:23:33 <zecke> or let me rephrase I have seen a huge improvement
Jun 06 19:25:09 <cworth> zecke: Well, I hadn't touched the new phone in a while, (but it had been connected by USB to my laptop), and I found it yesterday with its original shipped battery dead.
Jun 06 19:25:46 <cworth> So I popped in the Nokia battery I had purchased when I had charging problems with the original unit, booted and left it plugged in. This morning that battery's dead too.
Jun 06 19:25:55 <zecke> unfortunate
Jun 06 19:26:45 <balrog-kun> mine didn't have any original battery, but the nokia one charges pretty well
Jun 06 19:27:54 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2179 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (series smedia-glamo.patch): Add way incomplete and totally untested Smedia Glamo driver base for GTA02
Jun 06 19:29:19 <cworth> Hmmm... I'm not getting much action on the power button---I wonder if it's stuck down.
Jun 06 19:37:11 <ynezz> I don't have neo, but if I remember it correctly this was uboot related problem, but fixed already...
Jun 06 19:39:39 <cworth> ynezz: Yeah, that was my understanding as well.
Jun 06 19:40:08 <cworth> I could have verified/fixed uboot if I had left one of my batteries alive...
Jun 06 19:40:20 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2180 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/atcmd.c: 
Jun 06 19:40:20 <CIA-24> openmoko: Ignore 1:1 echos of commands sent. This is mainly to work around modems that
Jun 06 19:40:20 <CIA-24> openmoko: are initially in 'E1' state, i.e. have echo enabled. This means that our first
Jun 06 19:40:20 <CIA-24> openmoko: ATE0V1 command will get echoed before we receive OK. (Philipp Zabel)
Jun 06 19:40:43 <cworth> Too bad the device doesn't have a DC power input to operate without a battery...
Jun 06 19:41:44 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03stefan * r2181 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-today_svn.bb: 
Jun 06 19:41:44 <CIA-24> openmoko: * Copy openmoko-today again to our overlay and add the libstartup-notification
Jun 06 19:41:44 <CIA-24> openmoko:  dependency
Jun 06 19:43:14 <ynezz> the steps were described, search mailing list archives
Jun 06 19:43:50 <cworth> ynezz: Yeah, but I'm stuck now with only dead batteries.
Jun 06 19:44:34 <ynezz> there is a nokia workaround
Jun 06 19:45:35 <zecke> LaF0rge: hey, haskell is not obscure (just watching this video on google) :)
Jun 06 19:45:38 <stefan_schmidt> cworth: Just put the battery in the neo, plug the usb cable directly on the pc and wait two ours. I can be that it take some time
Jun 06 19:45:57 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: You find one language obscure, right? ;)
Jun 06 19:46:23 <cworth> stefan_schmidt: OK, will report back in two hours.
Jun 06 19:46:49 <pjz> J is pretty obscure
Jun 06 19:47:10 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: btw, I just added the startup-notification dep in our openmoko-today recipe. Like to add this to oe, too? Or wait for the big sync?
Jun 06 20:00:45 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: I will look into it
Jun 06 20:06:11 <cworth> Ooh... it doesn't actually fit per se... but if I hold it at the right angle I can get the FIC battery to make contact with an n770, (which also claims to be charging it).
Jun 06 20:08:58 <cworth> Yeah, after a short time of that the Neo is booting. Cool.
Jun 06 20:15:57 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03stefan * r2182 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
Jun 06 20:15:57 <CIA-24> openmoko: 2007-06-06 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org>
Jun 06 20:15:57 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/buttonactions.h:
Jun 06 20:15:57 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/mokodesktop.c:
Jun 06 20:15:57 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/mokodesktop.h:
Jun 06 20:15:59 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/stylusmenu.h:
Jun 06 20:16:00 <CIA-24> openmoko:  Add proper license header
Jun 06 20:21:18 <cworth> stefan_schmidt: OK, that device does seem to be charging, and it's booted now.
Jun 06 20:21:44 <cworth> So th only mystery left is why it discharged in the first place. I'll just have to keep an eye on things and see what happens
Jun 06 20:24:17 <stefan_schmidt> cworth: It discharges due to broken hardware. The now produced P1 should fix that all.
Jun 06 20:24:18 <balrog-kun> it's enough that either pcf50606 or the udc driver doesn't load on boot for whatever reason for fast-charge mode to not be used
Jun 06 20:24:46 <cworth> stefan_schmidt: So the second phone I was sent didn't have the fix?
Jun 06 20:25:09 <stefan_schmidt> cworth: It has one, but miss one other :)
Jun 06 20:25:17 <cworth> stefan_schmidt: Ah, I see. Thanks.
Jun 06 20:25:33 <cworth> stefan_schmidt: So if that's just expected behavior then I won't worry about it.
Jun 06 20:26:30 <cworth> Now to figure out why I'm not getting a USB console to be able to flash uboot on the old device.
Jun 06 20:26:42 <stefan_schmidt> cworth: Best is to have a new uboot, to be sure don't stuck in the reboot loop, and have it connected to usb during development
Jun 06 20:27:14 <stefan_schmidt> cworth: You don't need a usb console just use dfu
Jun 06 20:27:36 <cworth> Ah, well I just did get to a USB console. ;-)
Jun 06 20:28:14 <cworth> dfu-util is what? an i386 linux binary?
Jun 06 20:28:25 <woglinde> ?1?
Jun 06 20:28:48 <woglinde> its the opensource flasher for the neo
Jun 06 20:28:49 <cworth> Looks like it.
Jun 06 20:29:31 <cworth> woglinde: Right. I'm just talking about the recipe here:
Jun 06 20:29:33 <cworth> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko
Jun 06 20:29:39 <balrog-kun> dfu-util is cross-platform
Jun 06 20:29:40 <cworth> That points to a binary here:
Jun 06 20:29:48 <cworth> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/dfu-util
Jun 06 20:29:53 <cworth> Without really saying what it is.
Jun 06 20:30:08 <zecke> OT: Is there anyway to intercept gdk_window_move?
Jun 06 20:30:32 <SpeedEvil> Is there a way to poll the wiki for recent changes cheaper than just loading the special:recentchanges page?
Jun 06 20:30:44 <hrw> SpeedEvil: RSS for it
Jun 06 20:31:18 <SpeedEvil> Ah - somehow I missed that.
Jun 06 20:31:43 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2183 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-core.patch series): baseic (untested) GTA02 machine support
Jun 06 20:33:05 <zecke> cworth: but you know what it is? DFU is the USB specification for flashing firmware
Jun 06 20:34:02 <cworth> zecke: Sure. I'm just saying that if I had been trying these instructions from my powerpc linux box I would have gotten stuck.
Jun 06 20:34:30 <zecke> cworth: hehe
Jun 06 20:35:44 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: btw: is projects.openmoko.org supposed to work?
Jun 06 20:39:41 <stefan_schmidt> cworth: Just fix the wiki that it is a i386 precompiled binary and add a link to the source in our svn
Jun 06 20:39:57 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: database seems to be fixed, why?
Jun 06 20:40:10 <cworth> stefan_schmidt: Sure, will do.
Jun 06 20:40:53 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[System_Info]] [[Talk:Wish_List]]
Jun 06 20:41:09 <zecke> stefan_schmidt: I think I tried to check in my bindings some weeks ago and failed and I wondered if this is the usual neo incompabilities or a general failure
Jun 06 20:42:06 <stefan_schmidt> zecke: hmm, we now have a admin looking at it. Please try it again and fill a bug if it does not work
Jun 06 20:42:29 * stefan_schmidt thinks this gforge installation is in a pretty bad state
Jun 06 20:55:12 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03stefan * r2184 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-startup/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): 
Jun 06 20:55:12 <CIA-24> openmoko: 2007-06-06 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org>
Jun 06 20:55:12 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * configure.ac:
Jun 06 20:55:12 <CIA-24> openmoko:  Fix typo
Jun 06 21:02:02 <jbewley> anyone have any idea when this will be available in the UK???
Jun 06 21:02:02 <aloril> jbewley: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 06 21:03:31 <happycube> !counter
Jun 06 21:05:51 <jbewley> anyone??
Jun 06 21:06:56 <Freed> jbewley: lookat topic
Jun 06 21:06:58 <woglinde> jbewley will you developing or just phoning?
Jun 06 21:07:01 <so_solid_moo> jbewley: when they're available, you'll be able to buy them from anywhere
Jun 06 21:08:08 <jbewley> thanks so_solid_moo thats great but my question was when
Jun 06 21:08:28 <hads> Patience
Jun 06 21:08:28 <jbewley> i'll be developing
Jun 06 21:08:39 <woglinde> maybee next week
Jun 06 21:08:43 <woglinde> than
Jun 06 21:15:35 <balrog-kun> next week is quite unreal
Jun 06 21:17:39 <woglinde> balrog why?
Jun 06 21:18:52 <balrog-kun> because it was said the the first QA run would start in the second part of june (i don't remember exactly)
Jun 06 21:19:48 <balrog-kun> for me it sounds like still quite far from shipping
Jun 06 21:20:32 <ynezz> so let's wait till end of july ;)
Jun 06 21:20:52 <balrog-kun> well..
Jun 06 21:20:58 <balrog-kun> it's not like we have any other choice :)
Jun 06 21:30:51 <stefan_schmidt> balrog-kun: Harald and Mickey will do QA in .tw next week
Jun 06 21:32:52 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03stefan * r2185 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/stylusmenu.c): 
Jun 06 21:32:52 <CIA-24> openmoko: 2007-06-06 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org>
Jun 06 21:32:52 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * configure.ac:
Jun 06 21:32:52 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/Makefile.am:
Jun 06 21:32:52 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/stylusmenu.c:
Jun 06 21:32:53 <CIA-24> openmoko:  (moko_stylus_menu_activate_item):
Jun 06 21:32:58 <CIA-24> openmoko:  Add launcher startup notification support. Close bug #575
Jun 06 22:07:52 <CoreDump|home> hi
Jun 06 22:33:01 <webjames> night
Jun 06 22:40:53 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[Neo1973]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Dfu-util]] [[System_Info]]
Jun 06 22:44:41 <DukeOfURL> counter
Jun 06 22:44:41 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 6 days 13:15:15 (6.552±6.0 days) (1405;225)
Jun 06 23:31:52 <aloril> (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as
Jun 06 23:41:18 <ExplodingLemur> Question regarding MokoMakefile: I'm trying to build just to play around a bit in Qemu (curious about the feel of the UI), I've downloaded the makefile and installed the appropriate dependencies.  Doing a make setup now, and it's taking a very, very long time to grab "certs" and "revs" from monotone.openembedded.org.  Is this normal?
Jun 06 23:41:52 <abraxa_> I'm not sure make setup is needed for qemu alone
Jun 06 23:42:05 <abraxa_> Doing a "make qemu" might already suffice
Jun 06 23:42:23 <ExplodingLemur> ok, I'll abort this and give that a shot.
Jun 06 23:42:42 <abraxa_> Yeah, monotone will continue where it left off if it should indeed be necessary
Jun 06 23:43:10 <ExplodingLemur> Ok.  Assuming I know nothing of OpenMoko's build process (which would be a valid assumption ;) ) what role does monotone play?
Jun 06 23:43:37 * bhima wonders if FIC is planning to put up Neo1973 booths in front of Apple Stores on June 29th. :)
Jun 06 23:44:07 <ExplodingLemur> version control app for the Neo1973 CPU tools/libraries?
Jun 06 23:44:27 <abraxa_> monotone is the repository system OpenEmbedded uses - OpenMoko is based on OpenEmbedded so it relies on monotone to manage the local copy of the OE repo
Jun 06 23:47:24 <ExplodingLemur> Gotcha.  Thanks!
Jun 06 23:47:53 <ExplodingLemur> hmm.  make qemu launched back into monotone...guess it needs it after all.  Oh well, it'll finish...someday... :)
Jun 06 23:55:51 <rwhitby> hmm "make qemu" shouldn't require monotone - let me look into that
Jun 06 23:56:09 <rwhitby> ah, it's due to stamps/patches
Jun 07 00:18:15 <balrog-kun> so current openmoko-dialer works very nicely compared to a four days ago snapshot, i even managed to receive calls, but it segfaults when canceling an outgoing call and won't start up again
Jun 07 00:35:29 <balrog-kun> and stracing the dialer is not so easy...
Jun 07 00:35:51 <Vegar> why not gdb?
Jun 07 00:36:57 <balrog-kun> because strace shows me the... well.. strace output
Jun 07 00:37:36 <Vegar> right
Jun 07 00:37:42 <hads> heh
Jun 07 00:40:25 <Vegar> I prefer gdb for debugging, but that's me
Jun 07 00:40:53 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phone_Number_Field]] [[GPS]]
Jun 07 00:41:00 <Kensan> Something should be done about Wiki-Spammers.
Jun 07 00:42:41 <balrog-kun> i'm gonna reboot and try gdb now
Jun 07 00:42:53 <balrog-kun> i straced the sucker but it didn't tell me much
Jun 07 00:51:36 * balrog-kun wonders how the transparency is handled in the dialer
Jun 07 00:52:20 <balrog-kun> when the program segfaulted and is paused in gdb, it's not responding to X events but the transparency still works ok, when you draw something over the dialer window
Jun 07 01:05:57 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 597 has been created by balrogg@gmail.com
Jun 07 01:05:58 <cdbot2> * * openmoko-dialer segfaults on cacelling an outgoing call
Jun 07 01:05:59 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=597
Jun 07 02:03:09 <aloril> hmm.. what is GTA02, GTA01Bv4? "device type name"?
Jun 07 02:05:01 <aloril> if you have followed IRC, then you know already, but added 1 'news' item and fudged P2 dates: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter
Jun 07 02:12:01 <SpeedEvil> Mmmm. Fudge...
Jun 07 02:22:32 <aloril> also updated  http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter#Talk_by_Sean_Moss-Pultz_and_Harald_Welte_2007-06-06
Jun 07 02:40:33 <aloril> from outside slides added GTA02: "(talk) 2x 3D accelerometers" and  GTA03>=: Definitely going to 3D and even more integration with all kinds of peripherals. It needs time but actually having quite good success in getting number of hardware manufacturers to open specification/documentation. It might even happen that Linux mobile phones might have more open graphics than most desktop systems.
Jun 07 02:40:51 <aloril> (into earlier link)
Jun 07 02:40:53 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] [[User_talk:LvyL80]]
Jun 07 02:41:19 <SpeedEvil> The accelerometer that harald mentioned in the mailing list can't meaningfully be used more than one of in the phone.
Jun 07 02:42:10 <SpeedEvil> It's so insensitive that you basically can't easily generate enough motion for the accelerometer to read roll information out of the noise when you are hand-holding it.
Jun 07 02:42:41 <SpeedEvil> (if there are two)
Jun 07 02:49:39 <aloril> so length of phone is not enough for it (?)
Jun 07 02:49:50 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jun 07 02:49:54 <SpeedEvil> By a long way.
Jun 07 02:50:14 <SpeedEvil> The resolution of the one in the Wii is some 1mG or so.
Jun 07 02:50:39 <SpeedEvil> With two of those in - 
Jun 07 02:51:07 <SpeedEvil> you can more or less - when the phone is held up at chest level in front of you, tell moderately brisk roll action - around the vertical axis.
Jun 07 02:51:11 <aloril> ok, so as he said, they are evaluating it .. looks like good reason to look for some other one
Jun 07 02:51:46 <SpeedEvil> The ST part that was mentioned has a noise 16-30 times worse, depending on how you do the sums
Jun 07 02:52:05 <aloril> its *VERY* nice to have this uncompromising attitude about binary drivers in kernel -> very good for future of Linux 3D in mobile phones
Jun 07 02:52:10 <SpeedEvil> I commented on the ML that a PIC + the AD part would actually be moderately cheaper.
Jun 07 02:54:09 <aloril> at the moment there is only one proprietary part that needs proprietary code: GPS (as most of you know)
Jun 07 02:54:42 <aloril> there are at least 3 proprietary firmware parts, but those are separate systems: GSM, Bluetooth, WiFi (for GTA02)
Jun 07 02:55:48 <SpeedEvil> GPS
Jun 07 02:55:50 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jun 07 02:58:22 <happycube> at least those are nicely self-contained in flash
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 07 02:59:58 2007