**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 09 02:59:57 2007
Jun 09 03:32:53 <scuffe> does anyone know what's going on with monotone? i've been sitting at the downloading certs and revisions for like 3 hours now
Jun 09 03:33:08 <scuffe> and i haven't gotten any yet
Jun 09 04:02:12 <pjz> monotone kind of sucks that way.  I wish they'd move to git
Jun 09 04:04:10 <wehttamb> counter
Jun 09 04:04:10 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 5 days 03:57:53 (5.165±5.2 days) (1422;228)
Jun 09 04:04:27 <rwhitby> pjz: if you set up a git mirror, I can point mokomakefile to it ;-)
Jun 09 04:08:09 <scuffe> after hours i get this
Jun 09 04:08:12 <scuffe> mtn: error: I/O failure while talking to peer monotone.openembedded.org, disconnecting
Jun 09 04:08:45 <scuffe> all i want is a working dev enviroment is that so much to ask.....
Jun 09 04:26:25 <scuffe> yeah it's finally comming slowly but surely (hopefully)
Jun 09 05:03:33 <aloril> what about 2 options: a) "what is now at OpenMoko SVN" (like it works now)  b) "last known good compile" -version
Jun 09 05:03:37 <aloril> ?
Jun 09 05:23:47 <aloril> too early for my suggestion? I guess when its released there will be "known good snapshot" versions
Jun 09 06:15:30 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Dialer]]
Jun 09 07:25:16 <deepank__> sorry got disconnected
Jun 09 07:25:25 <deepank__> how can I compile and build a program into an openmoko image
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 09 08:15:25 2007

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 09 08:15:40 2007
Jun 09 08:53:56 * Herod2k saluta tutti e da il buongiorno
Jun 09 09:08:34 <buz> totally offtopic but since nothing's going on: are HP business notebooks any good?
Jun 09 09:15:34 <Tronic> buz: I think so.
Jun 09 09:15:51 <buz> so not playmobil like their pavilions?
Jun 09 09:16:00 <Tronic> They have strong design, very long battery life and the batteries don't seem to die quickly.
Jun 09 09:16:11 <buz> comparable to thinkpads then?
Jun 09 09:16:18 <Tronic> Their warranty repairs take a few days, which is not bad at all.
Jun 09 09:16:37 <Tronic> I haven't been too impressed with Lenovo's Thinkpads.
Jun 09 09:17:12 <Tronic> They have shorter battery life and worse features than HP. On the other hand, the switch is easy, as HP has been imitating Thinkpads for the last few years.
Jun 09 09:17:27 <buz> i just bought a t60, which is very impressively built but the ati vga card is unbearable under linux
Jun 09 09:17:53 <Tronic> I wouldn't buy a Pavilion. They look and feel plastic.
Jun 09 09:18:00 <buz> i sure as hell wont
Jun 09 09:18:12 <buz> and lenovo switzerland can't tell me whether the US thinkpads with intel shared memory are under warranty in switzerland
Jun 09 09:18:30 <buz> warranty upgrade for hp is expensive though
Jun 09 09:18:43 <Tronic> Oh, HP also has good keyboard layout. Left Ctrl is below Shift.
Jun 09 09:18:57 <buz> mhh same with my toshiba
Jun 09 09:19:01 <buz> the lenovo had fn there
Jun 09 09:19:06 <buz> but one adjusts very quickly
Jun 09 09:19:11 <Tronic> The Home/End/PgUp/PgDn etc. are also fairly well positioned.
Jun 09 09:19:23 <buz> i must figure out where i could see one for real
Jun 09 09:19:29 <Tronic> The problem with Fn there is that you can't press Ctrl+Shift with one finger.
Jun 09 09:19:31 <buz> pricing itself is very competitive
Jun 09 09:19:47 <buz> i never do that ;)
Jun 09 09:19:55 <buz> my fingers are too small for that to work reliably
Jun 09 09:20:04 <Tronic> And I use those combinations all the time (copy&paste in terminals, unit selections in TA Spring, etc).
Jun 09 09:20:24 * SpeedEvil hates unmappable metakeys.
Jun 09 09:20:48 <buz> not sure if you could remap them
Jun 09 09:20:53 <buz> you sure as hell can remap the acpi actions
Jun 09 09:20:56 <buz> so i guess you could
Jun 09 09:20:56 <SpeedEvil> You generally can't.
Jun 09 09:21:09 <buz> question is if doesnt confuse the hell out of you
Jun 09 09:21:11 <SpeedEvil> The keys tend to be firmware assisted
Jun 09 09:21:13 * dottedmag uses CapsLock as Ctrl, so no problem with Fn keys on notebooks :)
Jun 09 09:21:34 <buz> SpeedEvil: lenovo ones are mostly software driven for all i can tell
Jun 09 09:21:45 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 09 09:21:52 <Tronic> I use ctrl:nocaps too, but nobody else does.
Jun 09 09:21:56 <buz> they dont work unless ibm-acpi is loaded
Jun 09 09:22:12 <buz> and i see events when looking at the acpi logs
Jun 09 09:22:16 <dottedmag> buz: let me check, I have one handy :)
Jun 09 09:22:30 <buz> dottedmag: check what?
Jun 09 09:23:27 <dottedmag> buz: wow. really! Fn key on Thinkpad T22 is software-driven.
Jun 09 09:24:39 * buz sighs
Jun 09 09:24:49 <Stephmw> howdy
Jun 09 09:25:25 <buz> so  next on my schedule is finding some store that stocks hp stuff i guess
Jun 09 09:41:19 <crackfiend> Sorry if this has been rehashed, but can anybody shed some light on what the hold up is?
Jun 09 09:45:10 <crackfiend> I've been holding onto this cash since February, and I'm thinking that if the iPhone really will allow 3rd party apps, I might as well get that in a few weeks instead of waiting around for more missed release dates
Jun 09 09:46:48 <buz> well, wait a few weeks and see if its released then
Jun 09 09:47:05 <buz> personally i think the iphone is too big
Jun 09 09:47:55 <crackfiend> Hmmm... I think the Openmoko is a little portly too, but I suppose that's the price of smartphones
Jun 09 09:48:23 <Any_Key> is anybody suffers from problems with icon in OpenMoko Today in qemu? (I'm using mokomakefile updated)
Jun 09 09:48:38 <Any_Key> s/icon/icons
Jun 09 09:48:44 <Shoragan> Any_Key i'm building a new image right now
Jun 09 09:49:49 <ynezz> apple will probably go the symbian way, signed/approved 3rd apps...
Jun 09 09:49:51 <Any_Key> Shoragan, good,  tell me when you'll try it
Jun 09 09:54:43 <crackfiend> To the guys who have a 1973, how responsive is the UI? I have a Motorola A780, and the UI is amazingly slow
Jun 09 10:06:36 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03andrew * r2200 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (configure usb-linux-gadget.c): 
Jun 09 10:06:36 <CIA-24> openmoko: Check linux-headers version and include only headers appropriate for given version.
Jun 09 10:06:36 <CIA-24> openmoko: Fixes http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=592
Jun 09 10:09:24 <buz> crackfiend: very slow from what we hear
Jun 09 10:09:37 <buz> but its not yet optimized and phase 2 device gets faster hardware
Jun 09 10:10:15 <balrog-kun> it's not so bad in recent versions, when the folks started to take speed into account (or so it seems)
Jun 09 10:10:37 <buz> oh so it already gets optimized 
Jun 09 10:10:38 <buz> gooood
Jun 09 10:10:56 <balrog-kun> loading of some programs takes a couple of seconds but at least you see immediate rections to the taps
Jun 09 10:11:18 <buz> can linux do execute in place?
Jun 09 10:11:58 <balrog-kun> during boot?
Jun 09 10:12:20 <balrog-kun> there's the XIP option in the config for this
Jun 09 10:12:33 <buz> afterwards
Jun 09 10:12:43 <buz> as long as boot doesnt take forever i dont care that much for boot time
Jun 09 10:13:38 <balrog-kun> execute in place of normal programs? how would that work?
Jun 09 10:13:52 <buz> dunno, palm supposedly does it though
Jun 09 10:13:59 <balrog-kun> i mean it does support it but only if the programs are already in ram
Jun 09 10:14:07 <balrog-kun> i.e. and ext2 filesystem in ramdisk
Jun 09 10:14:15 <balrog-kun> only some filesystems have support for that
Jun 09 10:14:30 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Dialer]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Translation_HOWTO/ru]]
Jun 09 10:14:47 <balrog-kun> on PalmOS if you execute from an SD card or HD it will also first copy to RAM storage
Jun 09 10:25:37 <Shoragan> crackfiend, are you using the openmoko ui on the a780?
Jun 09 10:27:35 <crackfiend> Shoragan: nope. I was just trying to see how quick the UI is on the 1973... I didn't realize that openmoko was available for the A780
Jun 09 10:28:12 <Shoragan> ah, then which UI is slow on the A780?
Jun 09 10:28:42 <crackfiend> The UI it comes with :D
Jun 09 10:29:15 <Shoragan> heh
Jun 09 10:30:01 <Shoragan> there is the openezx project, which is working on making the A780 (and other phones) work with openembedded
Jun 09 10:31:13 <crackfiend> The hardware of the A780 is actually pretty nice. I love that it has real keys on the outside and a touchscreen under the flip. I just wish Motorola would've given it a little more love on the software side
Jun 09 10:31:51 <crackfiend> When openmoko is a little further along i wouldn't mind trying it out
Jun 09 10:32:48 <ynezz> motorola allows you to write 3rd party apps in j2me only? Or is it possible in C also?'
Jun 09 10:33:08 <ynezz> i don't take openezx into account
Jun 09 10:33:34 <crackfiend> Motorola only allows j2me officially I believe
Jun 09 10:34:19 <crackfiend> And some of the fun api's (like JSR 179) are not available
Jun 09 10:35:19 <ynezz> whats jsr179?
Jun 09 10:35:25 <crackfiend> Although it seems like some people have gotten it to work
Jun 09 10:35:30 <crackfiend> Location API (GPS)
Jun 09 10:35:34 <ynezz> ah
Jun 09 10:42:08 <Stephmw> ynezz, Nokia S40 is pretty much the same, J2ME is the 3rd-party extensability of choice
Jun 09 11:16:18 <Shoragan> Any_Key, i'm currently unable to boot the image in qemu :/
Jun 09 11:16:43 <Any_Key> Shoragan, funny...
Jun 09 11:17:25 <Any_Key> Shoragan, I'll build tomorrow I think
Jun 09 11:30:52 <nobody96> moin
Jun 09 11:33:19 <PBeck> hi
Jun 09 11:35:44 <mickey|teipei> heya
Jun 09 11:37:54 <Shoragan> greetings to teipei!
Jun 09 11:40:17 <Shoragan> SpeedEvil, how do you easily revert spam in the wiki/
Jun 09 11:47:12 <Stephmw> Shoragan: there's a history tab iirc
Jun 09 11:47:18 <nobody96> does anyone know how to get arround this error:
Jun 09 11:47:19 <nobody96> /opt/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/pulseaudio-0.9.6-r1/temp/run.do_install.26809: line 701: do_install: command not found
Jun 09 11:47:20 <nobody96> ?
Jun 09 11:47:37 <nobody96> happen during a make openmoko-devel-image
Jun 09 12:00:08 <aloril> mickey|teipei: seen piles of Neo1973s yet? ;-)
Jun 09 12:00:54 <mickey|teipei> no. they're in china
Jun 09 12:01:23 <mickey|teipei> besides, I'm in the hotel feeling like a zombie ;)
Jun 09 12:10:50 <quinton> hey guys, there are a couple of things i could do with clarification on
Jun 09 12:13:09 <quinton> it looks like SIM related functions are to be handled by the gsmd, does this mean that the sim card is on the gsm side of the UART line?
Jun 09 12:13:09 <quinton> would it be impossible for openmoko to communicate with it except through at commands?
Jun 09 12:14:02 <quinton> sorry if this is dumb question, i don't know a great deal about this stuff, it's just something i'm curious about
Jun 09 12:14:12 <pH5> quinton that's correct
Jun 09 12:14:30 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction/it]] [[User_talk:HlqY9p]] [[Media_Player]]
Jun 09 12:14:39 <quinton> thanks
Jun 09 12:16:34 <quinton> also, would it be possible (or easy?) to have the phone pretend to be, say, a mass storage device or a hid through usb?
Jun 09 12:16:49 <quinton> i saw something which seemed to suggest that, but i wasn't sure if i understood it correctly
Jun 09 12:17:57 * Herod2k va a pranzo poi nel pomeriggio prova a sistemare le badierine del DebianClan
Jun 09 12:18:02 * Herod2k saluta tutti
Jun 09 12:19:16 <pH5> quinton: should be easy (if the drivers work) - for storage there is the g_file_storage driver in linux.
Jun 09 12:19:41 <pH5> I don't know if there is a generic hid gadget driver somewhere.
Jun 09 12:20:33 <quinton> excellent, thanks pH5
Jun 09 12:21:19 <quinton> btw, does anyone know what kind of backlight it has?
Jun 09 12:22:21 <pH5> led, same as everyone
Jun 09 12:23:15 <quinton> this is an awesome project
Jun 09 12:23:24 <pH5> yes :)
Jun 09 12:23:32 <quinton> i can't wait to get one of these things
Jun 09 12:24:11 <quinton> i have great appreciation for everyone working on this
Jun 09 12:24:58 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 599 has been created by ruediger@blueboot.org
Jun 09 12:24:58 <cdbot2> * * pulseaudio compilation fails
Jun 09 12:25:00 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=599
Jun 09 12:25:05 <nobody96> cool :)
Jun 09 12:25:16 <nobody96> nice bot
Jun 09 12:40:46 <mickey|teipei> hmm
Jun 09 12:40:50 <mickey|teipei> pulseaudio compiles for me
Jun 09 12:50:02 <nobody96> i compiled here several times to
Jun 09 12:50:04 <nobody96> +o
Jun 09 12:50:16 <nobody96> thought there have been recent changes
Jun 09 12:50:25 <nobody96> but mtn says otherwise
Jun 09 12:50:38 <nobody96> stange
Jun 09 12:54:25 <nobody96> oh, svn says something changed
Jun 09 13:16:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2201 10/trunk/oe/packages/pulseaudio/pulseaudio_0.9.6.bb: oe: improve pulseaudio packaging
Jun 09 13:20:06 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2202 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: catch up with corrected module/lib naming in pulseaudio
Jun 09 13:25:04 <nobody96> same error
Jun 09 13:25:34 <nobody96> it tries
Jun 09 13:25:35 <nobody96> cd /opt/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/pulseaudio-0.9.6-r1/pulseaudio-0.9.6
Jun 09 13:25:35 <nobody96> do_install
Jun 09 13:25:39 <nobody96> and crashes
Jun 09 13:25:54 <nobody96> with: do_install: command not found
Jun 09 13:27:59 <mickey|teipei> hmm
Jun 09 13:28:06 <mickey|teipei> you're building for i486
Jun 09 13:28:09 <mickey|teipei> interesting
Jun 09 13:28:54 <nobody96> i wondered also
Jun 09 13:29:09 <mickey|teipei> oh, so it's not what you wanted to do?
Jun 09 13:29:13 <nobody96> but the wiki dosnt say anything about this
Jun 09 13:29:19 <mickey|teipei> then you might have some wrong environment variables
Jun 09 13:29:23 <mickey|teipei> BBPATH
Jun 09 13:29:26 <mickey|teipei> for one
Jun 09 13:29:36 <mickey|teipei> and/or your local.conf
Jun 09 13:29:42 <mickey|teipei> is missing DISTRO and MACHINE
Jun 09 13:30:27 <nobody96> MACHINE = "x86"
Jun 09 13:30:27 <nobody96> DISTRO = "openmoko"
Jun 09 13:30:54 <nobody96> but there is no BBPATH in my local.con
Jun 09 13:30:56 <nobody96> +f
Jun 09 13:31:26 <mickey|teipei> aha, so you're deliberatly building for x86
Jun 09 13:31:42 <mickey|teipei> BBPATH is an environment variable
Jun 09 13:31:48 <mickey|teipei> see wiki for how to set this
Jun 09 13:32:08 <nobody96> found it in the setup-env script
Jun 09 13:32:32 <nobody96> its correct
Jun 09 13:33:07 <mickey|teipei> try attaching your log.do_install._<number> and run.do_install.<number> to the bugreport
Jun 09 13:33:19 <mickey|teipei> that usually sits in $WORKDIR/temp/
Jun 09 13:33:32 <nobody96> ok
Jun 09 13:37:17 <nobody96> ok, added
Jun 09 14:14:31 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:EahV7x]] [[Guitar_Tuning]]
Jun 09 14:32:48 <nobody96> mickey|teipei, with MACHINE = "fic-gta01" it works
Jun 09 14:35:42 <kiney_> counter
Jun 09 14:35:42 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 22:42:07 (4.946±4.9 days) (1423;227)
Jun 09 15:08:52 <Sup3rkiddo> anyone getting errors with pulseaudio-server not being satisfied?
Jun 09 15:14:19 <mickey|teipei> might need svn update; bitbake -c rebuild pulseaudio
Jun 09 15:15:24 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|dinner, did that...
Jun 09 15:17:04 <mickey|teipei> and is pulseaudio-server in ipk/armv4t?
Jun 09 15:19:51 <Sup3rkiddo> nope...
Jun 09 15:20:36 <Sup3rkiddo> updating again just in case
Jun 09 15:20:48 <mickey|teipei> strange. i get the package
Jun 09 15:21:52 <Sup3rkiddo> will pastebin the errors if it comes
Jun 09 15:22:56 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|teipei: Current update breaks for me, too. No time for an analyze, have to go for dinner with my family.
Jun 09 15:23:40 <mickey|teipei> ok
Jun 09 15:23:42 <mickey|teipei> bon appetit
Jun 09 15:23:50 <mickey|teipei> i'm building from scratch currently to check
Jun 09 15:24:00 <mickey|teipei> but will probably need to go to bed before it completes
Jun 09 15:24:04 <mickey|teipei> will see tomorrow then
Jun 09 15:25:56 <Sup3rkiddo> bye! :D
Jun 09 15:54:47 * SpeedEvil sighs. 
Jun 09 15:55:02 <SpeedEvil> I've now setup something that barks on changes to the wiki.
Jun 09 15:55:12 <SpeedEvil> Polling every minute.
Jun 09 15:57:11 <mickey> cool
Jun 09 15:57:15 <mickey> ~lart vandalism
Jun 09 15:57:15 * apt changes vandalism's permissions to 0777 and tells the world
Jun 09 16:00:31 <hrw> Sup3rkiddo: Packaged contents of pulseaudio-server into /home/hrw/devel/openmoko/build/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/pulseaudio-server_0.9.6-r1_armv4t.ipk
Jun 09 16:02:40 <Sup3rkiddo> hrw, ls pulse* returns nada
Jun 09 16:09:30 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2203 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (configure.ac src/buttonactions.c src/buttonactions.h): openmoko-panel-mainmenu: play sounds using pulseaudio
Jun 09 16:12:42 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2204 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: make MOKO_POWERSAVE opt-in again
Jun 09 16:15:31 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[Talk:Main_Page]]
Jun 09 16:17:03 <aloril> SpeedEvil: have you watched video linked from http://codicesoftware.blogspot.com/2007/05/linus-torvalds-on-git-and-scm.html ? (or otherwise familiar with ideas behind git)
Jun 09 16:17:30 <aloril> SpeedEvil: I don't think there is *that* much difference between code and English text, so I think similar things apply to wiki too
Jun 09 16:18:33 <SpeedEvil> no
Jun 09 16:19:07 <SpeedEvil> The current deletor would be quite easy to catch though.
Jun 09 16:19:14 <aloril> how he describes distributed development sounds similar to how I envisioned distributed wiki editing (well there are some differences, but more similarities than compared to how wiki is done currently)
Jun 09 16:28:28 <webjames> ./moko
Jun 09 16:31:53 <webjames> hi, does the 'Messages' app work for anyone under qemu?
Jun 09 16:33:38 <balrog-kun> it looks like a dummy menu entry
Jun 09 16:35:26 <webjames> ah right, and what's with the weird noise now looping in qemu?
Jun 09 16:35:50 <webjames> sounds like something is trying to play
Jun 09 16:35:58 <Sup3rkiddo> webjames, yeah the startup sound
Jun 09 16:36:40 <webjames> nice, sounds like analogue tv reception interference - looping!
Jun 09 16:37:03 <Sup3rkiddo> it aint too bad...cant be used to scare away neighbours
Jun 09 16:37:25 <webjames> i mean i don't think mine is playing right
Jun 09 16:37:25 <Sup3rkiddo> *can
Jun 09 16:37:44 <Sup3rkiddo> mine too...
Jun 09 16:38:05 <webjames> oh right.. thats cool, seems to have stopped now
Jun 09 16:38:23 <webjames> things are really coming on, i like the apps so far
Jun 09 16:39:23 <webjames> only thing when adding then editing a contact the little picture is really small, a tiny square between Name and Organisation
Jun 09 16:39:41 <webjames> well okay, that's not the only thing but it's looking really good!
Jun 09 16:40:13 <SpeedEvil> There needs to be a 'bugzilla' app of some sort.
Jun 09 16:40:24 <SpeedEvil> So your mom can report problems.
Jun 09 16:40:30 * balrog-kun will need to see why the sound sample is not sounding ok, but that's after everything else is sorted out
Jun 09 16:40:56 <webjames> @ bugzilla idea: yeah, that'd be good
Jun 09 16:41:06 * balrog-kun hasn't heard the initial sample played correctly so far, so doesn't know how it's supposed to sound
Jun 09 16:41:29 <webjames> i'm guessing not like that, nor looping 6 or so times
Jun 09 16:43:07 <webjames> anonymous usage data could be sent whenever in wifi range, including bugzilla log files etc
Jun 09 16:43:57 <SpeedEvil> I was more meaning voicemail type things. 
Jun 09 16:44:07 <webjames> thing is bugzilla only pops up when an app crashes, we want some way of allowing the user to create a bug for other minor things
Jun 09 16:44:20 <SpeedEvil> For example - 'I can't work out how to add a contact I don't know the name of"
Jun 09 16:44:24 <SpeedEvil> or something similar
Jun 09 16:44:28 <webjames> SpeedEvil: so the user could describe the bug
Jun 09 16:44:31 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 09 16:44:42 <SpeedEvil> misfeatures too.
Jun 09 16:44:46 <webjames> nice
Jun 09 16:45:46 <webjames> could be a app, 'bug report' allowing the user to send images, sound and text describing a bug or problem
Jun 09 16:46:04 <SpeedEvil> Yeah
Jun 09 16:46:25 <webjames> if only i could program
Jun 09 16:51:35 <webjames> SpeedEvil: your from the UK arn't you? which mobile provider provides the best contract Internet usage? 
Jun 09 16:53:34 <SpeedEvil> Well.
Jun 09 16:53:41 <SpeedEvil> At the moment I have major credit problems.
Jun 09 16:53:48 <SpeedEvil> Plus, I don't actually make many calls.
Jun 09 16:54:04 <webjames> same here.. to both that is
Jun 09 16:54:07 <SpeedEvil> So, it looks like I'm going to be going with t-mobiles PAYG option - plus 1 pound/day internet.
Jun 09 16:54:18 <webjames> web 'n' walk?
Jun 09 16:54:50 <SpeedEvil> the web+walk thing - plus the 20 quid/month contract is the cheapest I've seen
Jun 09 16:55:36 <webjames> this seems pretty cheap and includes 'unlimited web surfing' - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/eshop/personal/price-plans/plan-details.do?cpc=FLX20WNW&tariffFamilyId=22&menuId=tariff.postpaid&paymentTypeId=1&bundleTypeGroup=0
Jun 09 16:55:57 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - 1G 
Jun 09 16:56:00 <SpeedEvil> IIRC quota
Jun 09 16:58:06 <webjames> the 'terms and conditions' certainly don't sound "Unlimited"
Jun 09 16:58:07 <SpeedEvil> I intend to phone them and see if the 'sim only' - 7.50/mo can have web and walk added.
Jun 09 16:58:17 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - 1G/mo
Jun 09 16:58:38 <SpeedEvil> Advertising standards agency have decided that it's OK to lie about unlimited.
Jun 09 16:58:50 <webjames> that and 'fair usage' - "We do not permit use of this service to provide modem access for a computer or for peer to peer file sharing, internet phone calls or instant messaging. Roaming charges apply."
Jun 09 16:58:55 <CoreDump|home> hi
Jun 09 16:59:04 <webjames> Hello
Jun 09 16:59:25 <SpeedEvil> Well - I'm not going to be doing that.
Jun 09 16:59:34 <SpeedEvil> I'm going to be using it for ssh'ng from my phone.
Jun 09 16:59:40 <SpeedEvil> Or other VPN stuff.
Jun 09 16:59:48 <SpeedEvil> Let them eat AES.
Jun 09 17:00:25 <webjames> haha, yeah then how would they know what it was
Jun 09 17:00:58 <zecke> mickey|dinner: can't global locate link statically with uclibc?
Jun 09 17:03:56 <PBeck> re
Jun 09 17:05:05 <SpeedEvil> webjames: if you are going to be making very few calls - then PAYG + 1 quid a day may be better value.
Jun 09 17:05:34 <SpeedEvil> webjames: Or the 7.50/mo SIM-only contract + 1 quid/day
Jun 09 17:05:49 <SpeedEvil> webjames: especially if you don't use data every day.
Jun 09 17:11:32 <SpeedEvil> 'new' breadmaker from ebay.
Jun 09 17:11:55 <SpeedEvil> One appliance readily available.
Jun 09 17:15:31 <aloril> (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Small does not mean powerless http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/06/09/small-does-not-mean-powerless/
Jun 09 17:34:48 <webjames> yeah, that's true, thing is i'm paying 35 a month to o2 and i get nothing, and i don't use anything either
Jun 09 17:34:55 <webjames> SpeedEvil: yeah, that's true, thing is i'm paying 35 a month to o2 and i get nothing, and i don't use anything either
Jun 09 17:36:54 <BrianHV> I'm trying to build the apps as described in the wiki, and it's complaining about not having libgsmd
Jun 09 17:38:04 <zecke> BrianHV: update the wiki, build libgsmd?
Jun 09 17:38:29 <SpeedEvil> oops - mischan - about breadmaker
Jun 09 17:38:34 <BrianHV> from where?
Jun 09 17:38:49 <zecke|studying> BrianHV: go to svn.openmoko.org and browse for the dir?
Jun 09 17:39:47 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2205 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: add basic init script
Jun 09 17:40:01 <BrianHV> src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd?
Jun 09 17:40:56 <zecke|studying> BrianHV: I would checkout the dir that contains a autogen.sh and configure.ac
Jun 09 17:41:21 <zecke|studying> so src/target/gsm would be what I would download
Jun 09 17:41:29 <BrianHV> I have the whole tree already
Jun 09 17:41:56 <Sup3rkiddo> BrianHV, you should have DEPENDS+="libgsmd" in your recipe..works for me
Jun 09 17:42:15 <BrianHV> my recipe?
Jun 09 17:42:29 <zecke|studying> BrianHV: don't forget to update the wiki
Jun 09 17:42:37 <Sup3rkiddo> BrianHV, yup, for your app
Jun 09 17:43:07 <BrianHV> I don't have an app; I'm trying to build the apps in openmoko's svn
Jun 09 17:43:51 <Sup3rkiddo> BrianHV, oh ok...
Jun 09 17:47:54 <BrianHV> lovely... the example apps are segging
Jun 09 17:49:55 <kiney_> counter
Jun 09 17:49:55 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 21:05:00 (4.878±4.9 days) (1424;227)
Jun 09 17:54:50 <Mandarino> counter
Jun 09 17:54:51 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 21:02:33 (4.877±4.9 days) (1425;227)
Jun 09 18:16:31 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Applications]] [[Bug_Report]]
Jun 09 19:13:47 <buz> An interesting rumor is floating in the Internet that soon we?ll see a new Sony Ericsson phone with a unique capability: the user can change the music track by shaking the phone. The source suggests that when you shake it forwards it goes to the next track and when you fling it back it goes to the previous one. For the random playback you have to shake it side to side.
Jun 09 19:13:53 <buz> that's something for GTA02
Jun 09 19:14:38 <zecke> buz: have seen it in 1999 on the itsy (well I only saw a video)
Jun 09 19:15:10 <CoreDump|home> gta02 is going to rock
Jun 09 19:15:23 <zecke> http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/WRL-2000-3.pdf
Jun 09 19:21:34 <SpeedEvil> Wow - wikipedia is dated.
Jun 09 19:21:37 <SpeedEvil> (om) 
Jun 09 19:21:52 <SpeedEvil> It's not using a novell email client is it?
Jun 09 19:27:03 <buz> not sure i like tilt scrolling so much
Jun 09 19:27:43 <buz> seems like it could have a life of its own
Jun 09 19:28:11 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 09 19:28:28 <SpeedEvil> However - shake-scroll is more reasonable.
Jun 09 19:28:50 <SpeedEvil> As it's possible to reasonably determine when it's stationaryish
Jun 09 19:29:15 <webjames> CoreDump|home: or rather you shall rock the gta02 and it shall...
Jun 09 19:29:32 <Ycros> ugh, so I really want one of these openmoko phones - but now I'm not sure if I should get one or wait for the next revision
Jun 09 19:29:43 <buz> shake scroll seems like even worse
Jun 09 19:29:53 <SpeedEvil> Well - are you actually wanting a phone.
Jun 09 19:29:57 <webjames> Ycros: i think you should get both
Jun 09 19:30:08 <buz> Forces your eyes to refind the point where you were even more than traditional scorlling
Jun 09 19:30:14 <SpeedEvil> Or are you wanting a nice small touchscreen X box, with some slightly broken phone apps in.
Jun 09 19:30:20 <SpeedEvil> I eas more meaning for the media player
Jun 09 19:30:22 <SpeedEvil> was
Jun 09 19:30:38 <buz> for video it would kinda suck too ;)
Jun 09 19:30:42 <buz> but for mp3 is would be great
Jun 09 19:30:51 <buz> especially if you could manage to do it WHILE in the pocket
Jun 09 19:31:01 <Ycros> webjames, maybe, but at what cost?
Jun 09 19:31:02 * SpeedEvil envisions grabbing neo in front-pocket, and putting on random mode.
Jun 09 19:31:21 <Ycros> webjames, I heard there would be a deal for early adopters - but I have heard nothing more
Jun 09 19:31:25 <SpeedEvil> 'no, no, I'm not masturbating!'
Jun 09 19:31:52 <webjames> Ycros: yeah, i'm sure ebay would also give you a return on your redundant hardware
Jun 09 19:31:53 <SpeedEvil> Ycros: not been revealed.
Jun 09 19:32:27 <webjames> Ycros: hink os the Neo as an investment rather than a cost ;)
Jun 09 19:32:31 * mwester thinks that any user interface that encourages one to shake, throw, fling, flick, or perform other generally-destructive actions with a Neo is ill-advised.
Jun 09 19:32:48 * SpeedEvil is going to put a PSP joystick on mine.
Jun 09 19:32:57 <webjames> mwester: are you thinking of the wii controlers?
Jun 09 19:33:45 <mwester> Both the "flying device" syndrome, and the generally-bad things that happen when one shakes, strikes, or tosses electronic equipment equipped with heavy internal part (battery) and delicate glass parts (LCD).
Jun 09 19:34:38 <webjames> mwester: haha, yeah, not to mention the law suit: "he then through his mobile at me, striking me in the temple"
Jun 09 19:34:40 <SpeedEvil> Shaking shouldn't really cause issues.
Jun 09 19:34:42 <SpeedEvil> Moderately.
Jun 09 19:35:54 <mwester> Agreed.  Provided the battery is adequately restrained, and the battery-circuitry connection is able to handle the stresses.  But you know that if one person shakes gently, someone else will grasp the phone and see what happens if you shake it harder...  Human nature.
Jun 09 19:36:12 <webjames> shaking implies to me an action that you would do to for example a can of spray paint. shouldn't it be more of a tilting action?
Jun 09 19:36:15 <SpeedEvil> Make it scream.
Jun 09 19:36:29 <SpeedEvil> Tilting has problems - when is it being put away
Jun 09 19:36:38 <Ycros> webjames, SpeedEvil: I just want one already ;_;
Jun 09 19:36:57 <mwester> webjames: tilting happens when I lean over to pick up my car keys -- I don't want response to slow gentle movement, so must be a quiker (i.e. more violent) movement, or not useful.
Jun 09 19:37:25 <webjames> SpeedEvil: that why it should have a locking function, with a similar unlocking as the Touch
Jun 09 19:37:40 <webjames> finger swiping across the screen
Jun 09 19:37:47 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure.
Jun 09 19:38:00 <SpeedEvil> I want to be able to do a limited number of actions when unlocked
Jun 09 19:38:06 <SpeedEvil> locked
Jun 09 19:38:07 <mwester> In general, any UI that would regularly (i.e. more than a few times a day) require someone to lock/unlock is a bad gui.
Jun 09 19:38:29 <webjames> SpeedEvil: the tilt would surly be 'locked out' whilst locked anyway
Jun 09 19:38:52 <SpeedEvil> I want it to respond to shakes on the media player when locked
Jun 09 19:38:53 * mwester thinks of the Moto RAZR, with the stupid, useless, ridiculous buttons on the side that prevent one from grasping the device without activating something.
Jun 09 19:39:35 <mwester> Motion sensitivity should be external - a bluetooth "motion device".  This solves the problem for everyone nicely.
Jun 09 19:40:16 <webjames> mwester: also you think of any phone you press a series of at least two key to unlock the device, and you do that regularly, swiping ones finger across the screen is easy, also voice unlock could be enabled aswell
Jun 09 19:40:33 <mwester> The only motion sensitivlty any phone should have is to detect if it has been struck or dropped hard enough that it is no longer considered under warranty.
Jun 09 19:40:45 <webjames> the 'magic word'
Jun 09 19:41:08 <mwester> webjames: I prefer phones that do not unlock at all, or the unlock in implicit in the preparation for operation (i.e. the opening of a flip).
Jun 09 19:41:12 <webjames> mwester: of course that could be overridden
Jun 09 19:41:27 <webjames> mwester: yeah, but this aint a flip phone
Jun 09 19:42:07 <mwester> magic words are bad - consider a conference room, and the "magic word" being detected when I speak to a crowd.  Now my phone activates in my pocket.  Not what I want at all.
Jun 09 19:43:27 <mwester> How about a classroom -- triggered by something during a final exam?  There is far too much noise in the world, and tuning that noise out by tightening the "detection filter" results in the inability of the user to unlock when the most need the phone (when under stress when voice changes, or in high noise environment)
Jun 09 19:43:44 * mwester thinks the best feature of the Neo is that it only has two buttons.
Jun 09 19:45:20 <mwester> BTW, yes, I'll accept a swipe or an unlock button if necessary because the device lacks a flip -- I currently use a "swipe" hack on my Treo 650 for exacltly that reason.  But I don't like it - it requires an extra hand that I may not have at the time.
Jun 09 19:46:02 <webjames> mwester: that just shows lack of imagination of the magic word, what about "baneful" how often do you use that?
Jun 09 19:46:08 <SpeedEvil> Voice unlock is a possibility.
Jun 09 19:46:17 <woglinde> hihi
Jun 09 19:46:25 * SpeedEvil looks at webjames with a baneful glare.
Jun 09 19:46:46 <mwester> webjames: And what if my presentation includes the word "painful"? 
Jun 09 19:47:00 <webjames> p and b differ enough
Jun 09 19:47:07 <SpeedEvil> Voice unlock - shake phone and talk unlock phrase
Jun 09 19:47:15 <mwester> Not really - consonants are the first things lost in high noise.
Jun 09 19:47:19 <webjames> SpeedEvil: don't forget swipe
Jun 09 19:47:34 <SpeedEvil> I don't wanna swipe if I've got muddy hands.
Jun 09 19:48:03 <webjames> what about radiocommunications?
Jun 09 19:48:12 <webjames> tinpot?
Jun 09 19:48:47 <buz> voice activation is stupid
Jun 09 19:49:00 <webjames> ungovernability?
Jun 09 19:49:01 <buz> and i'd guess it takes a lot of cpu
Jun 09 19:49:02 <mwester> Best to choose something longer.  How about singing "eeeeiiiiiiieeeeeeiiiiioooooooohhh" very loudly?
Jun 09 19:49:07 <SpeedEvil> Voice activation should be an option.
Jun 09 19:49:21 <seemant> I would name my phone "Kitt" if it was
Jun 09 19:49:23 <webjames> webjames stand behind SpeedEvil
Jun 09 19:49:34 <SpeedEvil> 'Enterprise'
Jun 09 19:49:37 <SpeedEvil> and tap-unlock.
Jun 09 19:49:40 <buz> i vote for sexual noises
Jun 09 19:49:43 <SpeedEvil> Wear it like a combadge.
Jun 09 19:49:43 <webjames> Kitt was awesome
Jun 09 19:49:44 <seemant> haha, yes, or "Computer"
Jun 09 19:50:36 <mwester> bad voice recognition is the fast path to a bad reputation -- people want that so desperately that when it fails, (as it always does), they are more disappointed than if the device did not claim such difficult features in the first place.
Jun 09 19:51:26 <mwester> Read the forums for feedback on any of the late cell phones that have voice-dail features.  A few supporters, but most people complain that it doesn't work.
Jun 09 19:51:53 <seemant> mwester: which forums?
Jun 09 19:52:13 <mwester> In any case, a great feature for the experimenters, but I certainly hope it doesn't enter the retail channels (if it ever does) with voice recognition listed as a feature.
Jun 09 19:52:13 <webjames> come on voice activation is purely down to the user, with a word like  "Zafferana" how is it oging to unlock?
Jun 09 19:52:39 <mwester> seemant: any of the forums for mobile devices.  the recent ones I've been viewing have been about the Treos.
Jun 09 19:52:48 <seemant> mwester: aha, thanks
Jun 09 19:53:21 <Tronic> mwester: WTF? I have been successfully using voice commands (dialing, mostly) for five years or so.
Jun 09 19:53:28 <mwester> webjames: have you tried voice-dial from a cell phone, in places like an automobile, office, and a commuter train?
Jun 09 19:53:35 <Tronic> Works very well, even in noisy environments.
Jun 09 19:53:51 <webjames> *stands behind Tronic
Jun 09 19:54:23 <seemant> webjames: discover /me
Jun 09 19:54:24 <webjames> mwester: only thing is it takes battery..
Jun 09 19:54:30 <Tronic> The trick is to say the word in the same way as originally. Just saying the same word (or even less someone else saying it) doesn't work too well.
Jun 09 19:54:46 <seemant> actually, my wife has voice recognition in her Prius, and it's basically useless
Jun 09 19:54:48 <SpeedEvil> webjames: not with a trigger action.
Jun 09 19:55:04 <Tronic> webjames: Does it? How much battery can it use in the two seconds that it runs?
Jun 09 19:55:14 <webjames> SpeedEvil: yeah but that mean, lets say if you are driving it's no good
Jun 09 19:55:14 <SpeedEvil> webjames: I need to work out more about my PIC+analog digital accelerometer
Jun 09 19:55:15 <mwester> Tronic: there's one of the big problems.  Try to say the word "in the same way as originally" when you are in the corner of a conference room trying to dial a number without disturbing the room.
Jun 09 19:55:24 <seemant> "Quick One" gets the response "Turning radio on" instead of switching to the "quick1" route on the nav
Jun 09 19:55:32 <Tronic> mwester: The volume does not matter, and I have done that.
Jun 09 19:56:12 <mwester> Tronic: then you have the fortune of a phone that has broken the barrier and solved the problem that has never been solved before!!  Who has done this incredible thing, may I ask?
Jun 09 19:56:24 <Tronic> Siemens and Nokia.
Jun 09 19:56:27 <webjames> Tronic: cos it has to listen for the word, whereas normally it wouldn't activate such a function un less requested
Jun 09 19:56:30 <mwester> Model number please?
Jun 09 19:56:47 <Tronic> Siemens ME45 and Nokia 6230 (S40).
Jun 09 19:56:52 <mwester> thanks!
Jun 09 19:57:22 * mwester goes to google to see what they do differently than Motorola, Treo, On*Star, and others.
Jun 09 19:59:16 <webjames> mwester: maybe your right, i bet it differs from person to person on how much their voice changes due to stress, excitement, fear etc..
Jun 09 20:01:08 <webjames> how about multilingualism as a word..
Jun 09 20:02:07 <webjames> SpeedEvil: a tap on the screen followed by the magic word could work
Jun 09 20:02:12 <mwester> :-D  How about I just turn it off, as I end up doing on all the phones I've had, and just use the old-fashioned way instead ;-) 
Jun 09 20:03:06 <webjames> the tap activating the mic etc then the voice activating the phones voice commands "dial work" -=> "calling work..."
Jun 09 20:04:10 <SpeedEvil> webjames: yeah.
Jun 09 20:04:10 <webjames> mwester: you cant say it would hurt having it on there for the people who want to put up with it, or for those who find it does actually work
Jun 09 20:04:27 <SpeedEvil> Exactly like they do on star-trek, some series :)
Jun 09 20:04:29 <buz> add it as optionally installable app
Jun 09 20:04:34 <woglinde> hihi
Jun 09 20:04:35 <buz> then nobody can complain about it not working
Jun 09 20:04:47 <webjames> buz, yeah.
Jun 09 20:05:25 <mwester> webjames: goodness no, it should be there for people to work on the problem.  But I think it would be a bad idea to advertise it as a core function of the phone when it enters retail channels.
Jun 09 20:05:28 <webjames> SpeedEvil: also for changing tack, a tap then "next" -=> plays next track
Jun 09 20:05:46 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 09 20:06:53 <webjames> the feature list by launch is going to be massive i bet, and the point is it will evolve with the users comments and bug reports
Jun 09 20:07:47 <webjames> voice activation is not flawed in theory just in practice, so surly it could be done right
Jun 09 20:08:01 <SpeedEvil> VOIP to india.
Jun 09 20:08:10 <SpeedEvil> Person in india presses button, when you say word.
Jun 09 20:08:15 * mwester *DOES* think there is one important but intrusive feature that the neo should do.  Using the GPS, when the neo detects that the person speaking on the phone has entered the restroom, the phone should shut OFF!!!
Jun 09 20:08:25 <SpeedEvil> Naah.
Jun 09 20:08:28 <SpeedEvil> Go to speaker mode.
Jun 09 20:08:33 <webjames> SpeedEvil: haha
Jun 09 20:08:33 <woglinde> lol
Jun 09 20:08:36 <mwester> hehe!
Jun 09 20:08:47 <buz> htf would it know that it is a rest room
Jun 09 20:08:53 <SpeedEvil> Databases.
Jun 09 20:09:00 <buz> noises
Jun 09 20:09:05 <SpeedEvil> You could even add it to a 'dating' app.
Jun 09 20:09:17 <webjames> yeah, openstreetmap would have a map of restrooms across the globe
Jun 09 20:09:20 <mwester> GPS accuracy might be a problem if one's office was close to a restroom, though.
Jun 09 20:09:37 <webjames> mwester: what about if ones office is the restroom?
Jun 09 20:09:48 * SpeedEvil wishes inertial guidance were possible.
Jun 09 20:10:47 <webjames> how about ambient noise detection? that tinkle is a dead give away
Jun 09 20:11:25 <mwester> In general, though, the GPS could be useful to solve some of the UI problems.  Perhaps the GPS could tell the unit to switch from an MP3-player-friendly UI mode to a business-cell-phone-and-pda mode when one arrives at the train station near work each morning...
Jun 09 20:11:28 * SpeedEvil ponders active sonar.
Jun 09 20:12:02 <SpeedEvil> with the GPS, and near-ultrasound, you should be able to build up a 2D map
Jun 09 20:12:10 <SpeedEvil> as you walk along a line
Jun 09 20:14:05 * mwester is hoping the Neo will be the finest business-class PDA and cell phone on the market -- and is beginning to wonder, with discussions of voice, motion, and ultrasonic, what it is the Neo will *really* end up being!
Jun 09 20:15:30 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:PipBoy2000]] [[Translation]]
Jun 09 20:16:34 <CoreDump|home> probably a geek-only tool. Until OM has matured _a lot_ that is =)
Jun 09 20:17:34 <Vegar> it's supposed to be end-user quality in six months or so
Jun 09 20:21:52 <buz> the phone is way too big for your average end user
Jun 09 20:22:03 <buz> i've been carrying a p900 for 3,5 years so i wont mind
Jun 09 20:22:06 <buz> but most will
Jun 09 20:23:13 <mwester> Agreed.  The size is more suited for a smartphone/PDA replacement than for competing with the RAZR, for example.
Jun 09 20:23:22 <CoreDump|home> exactly
Jun 09 20:23:51 <mwester> On the other hand, the shape and color choice indicates that somebody didn't do any market research on the typical PDA/Smartphone purchaser.
Jun 09 20:24:07 <buz> yeah i wonder about the shape too
Jun 09 20:24:25 <buz> (and thats from someone who doesnt care for thinkpads look ;)
Jun 09 20:24:34 <buz> s/for/about/
Jun 09 20:24:34 <apt> buz meant: (and thats from someone who doesnt care about thinkpads look ;)
Jun 09 20:24:35 <mwester> All black or silver, squarish -- i.e. business-conservative would make more sense considering the $$$$$$ on the price tag.
Jun 09 20:24:51 <buz> no hole for chrissakes
Jun 09 20:24:58 <mwester> Exactly!
Jun 09 20:25:18 <mwester> Makes it look like something you hang around the neck of a little child at the swimming pool with their locker keys in it.
Jun 09 20:25:41 <buz> and considering how much they spend on development, one would think a few 10K for a new case wouldnt be THAT bad really
Jun 09 20:26:09 <mwester> Squaring it up, and getting rid of the hole would probably make placing the components easier, too, I would think.
Jun 09 20:26:38 <buz> yeah and leave space for a camera
Jun 09 20:26:42 * mwester agrees with buz that the Thinkpad is awful -- IBM needs to learn something from Sony.
Jun 09 20:26:49 <buz> mwester: actually no
Jun 09 20:26:52 <buz> vaio is muuuuch worse
Jun 09 20:26:57 <mwester> Really?
Jun 09 20:27:02 * mwester rather likes the vaio
Jun 09 20:27:06 <buz> color in a laptop? awful
Jun 09 20:27:11 <buz> a laptop should be black
Jun 09 20:27:12 * CoreDump|home is a Samsung Notebook fanboy
Jun 09 20:27:12 <buz> or metal 
Jun 09 20:27:18 <SpeedEvil> Unless it's pink.
Jun 09 20:27:26 <buz> ehehe
Jun 09 20:27:27 * mwester falls over.
Jun 09 20:27:37 <buz> if specs are good enough, i might buy pink notebook
Jun 09 20:27:50 <buz> the shock factor alone would be worth it
Jun 09 20:27:51 <mwester> only if I had money left over for a can of spray paint.
Jun 09 20:28:46 * SpeedEvil has a bad history with laptops and paint.
Jun 09 20:28:55 <buz> stay away from my notebook with any sort of paint
Jun 09 20:28:59 <SpeedEvil> And an oven set at the wrong temperature to bake the paint on.
Jun 09 20:29:07 <buz> ROTFL
Jun 09 20:29:12 <Twey> Hahahaha
Jun 09 20:29:14 <SpeedEvil> Metal laptops pretty much have to be painted
Jun 09 20:29:33 <mwester> Metal laptops do not work well with bluetooth and wifi.
Jun 09 20:29:34 <SpeedEvil> Fortunately, it was only the top of the inside next to the keyb
Jun 09 20:29:44 <SpeedEvil> so I replaced it with some cardboard.
Jun 09 20:29:49 <SpeedEvil> Diddn't look quite so good.
Jun 09 20:30:25 <buz> wtf would you paint metal notebook
Jun 09 20:31:04 <SpeedEvil> It was a plastic one. 
Jun 09 20:31:17 <SpeedEvil> Almost all metal laptops are painted.
Jun 09 20:31:27 <buz> not sure about macbook pro
Jun 09 20:31:33 <SpeedEvil> The Toshiba 3110CT I have, for example.
Jun 09 20:31:43 <buz> and not too many truly metal notebooks out there
Jun 09 20:31:46 <SpeedEvil> It's got a Mg/Al case.
Jun 09 20:32:08 <buz> panasonic dont seem painted either
Jun 09 20:32:11 * mwester has nothing but Dell's -- all plastic.  And cheaper plastic in the newer ones.
Jun 09 20:32:13 <SpeedEvil> Which unfortunately corrodes under the paint.
Jun 09 20:32:30 <SpeedEvil> Where it's exposed to sweat for a long time.
Jun 09 20:32:48 <mwester> palmrest area, for example?
Jun 09 20:32:52 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 09 20:32:59 <buz> i wonder if you could get thinkpad shells
Jun 09 20:33:02 <buz> to paint pink
Jun 09 20:33:07 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Jun 09 20:33:10 <SpeedEvil> Ebay the guts.
Jun 09 20:33:18 <buz> but i want the guts
Jun 09 20:33:28 <buz> and a spare shell
Jun 09 20:33:42 <buz> maybe i can get a salvage thinkpad somewhere
Jun 09 20:33:45 <mwester> I just bought a new shell for a Dell laptop (Daughter dropped it)... I expect you could get one for a Stinkpad too.
Jun 09 20:33:45 <buz> paint it pink
Jun 09 20:33:50 <SpeedEvil> Proper swappable covers for laptops would be nice.
Jun 09 20:34:20 <buz> mwester: looking at how much trouble it is to remove the palmrest to plug in ram, i'm not quite sure i want to dissassemble the whole thing
Jun 09 20:34:37 <buz> WTF you put ram below the palmrest i dont understand anyway
Jun 09 20:34:57 <Ycros> a standard form factor for laptops would be awesome
Jun 09 20:35:18 <mwester> You did that too?  yeah, what a way to upgrade the ram, huh!  (I did it in a hotel room, with a screwdriver for eyeglasses, because airline security won't let me fly with a proper toolkit).
Jun 09 20:35:38 <hrw|gone> mwester: which dell?
Jun 09 20:35:43 <mwester> C640
Jun 09 20:35:51 <buz> mwester: on a T60 yes
Jun 09 20:36:01 * hrw will upgrade d400 ram during next month - ram under keyboard
Jun 09 20:36:03 <buz> on monday, so memory is fresh ;)
Jun 09 20:36:18 <buz> at first i didnt belive the manual
Jun 09 20:36:25 <hrw> one slot on bottom of laptop, seconf under keyboard
Jun 09 20:36:26 <buz> you even have to detach the touchpad cabling
Jun 09 20:36:43 <mwester> Clearly not intended for end-users to expand memory.
Jun 09 20:36:57 <buz> not sure
Jun 09 20:37:08 <buz> has neat howto with pics on lenovo site
Jun 09 20:37:22 <buz> and it even eats generic cheap kingston ram
Jun 09 20:37:24 <mwester> The Dells are better; but IBM has done this for years.  The one I upgraded is an old one - Thinkpad T42.
Jun 09 20:37:27 <buz> cant beat 1G at 30EUR
Jun 09 20:38:02 <CoreDump|home> dell....right
Jun 09 20:38:03 * mwester wonders if we can replace the skin on the Neo... or paint it.
Jun 09 20:38:12 <buz> we can
Jun 09 20:38:21 <buz> (not sure what would stop you ;)
Jun 09 20:39:04 <hrw> uf.. my d400 has empty slot on bottom
Jun 09 20:39:15 <hrw> no need to dissasemble half of laptop to add ram
Jun 09 20:39:18 <buz> hrw: true for my toshiba too
Jun 09 20:39:36 <hrw> buz: but other slot is under keyboard ;(
Jun 09 20:39:38 <mwester> hrw: I think only the IBMs have the slot under the keyboard as far as I know.
Jun 09 20:39:42 * CoreDump|home 's notebook some w/ 2Gb RAM =)
Jun 09 20:39:48 <hrw> mwester: dell d400 too
Jun 09 20:39:50 <CoreDump|home> s/some/came
Jun 09 20:40:00 <hrw> CoreDump|home: my is 2 years old
Jun 09 20:40:01 <buz> CoreDump|home: which one
Jun 09 20:40:11 <CoreDump|home> buz: Samsung R55
Jun 09 20:40:26 * mwester has an old Dell laptop running Nagios that doesn't even have a 2Gbytes of Disk!
Jun 09 20:41:28 <buz> that one is not on sale in switzerland i think
Jun 09 20:42:29 <buz> wtf arent any sane laptops on sale here, anyway
Jun 09 20:42:53 * CoreDump|home has been to Zurich once
Jun 09 20:43:03 <CoreDump|home> well, twice
Jun 09 20:43:37 <noon> hello
Jun 09 20:43:40 <buz> i live quite near to zurich
Jun 09 20:44:17 <CoreDump|home> I stayed in a hotel called "Sonnental"
Jun 09 20:44:24 <buz> finding a linux notebook with 1680*1050 is nigh impossible here
Jun 09 20:44:33 <buz> never heard of
Jun 09 20:44:47 <CoreDump|home> buz: that's quite a bad-ass rez 
Jun 09 20:44:57 <buz> lowest i can accept in 15.4
Jun 09 20:45:10 <buz> i would get 1920x1200 but thats even more rrare
Jun 09 20:45:40 <buz> the more pixels the better
Jun 09 20:45:45 <CoreDump|home> true
Jun 09 20:46:05 <buz> only dell and lenovo z series have 1920x1200 
Jun 09 20:46:08 <buz> and i dont like either one
Jun 09 20:47:51 <CoreDump|home> lenovos linux support should be ok-ish as they come from IBM I guess
Jun 09 20:49:43 <quitte> counter
Jun 09 20:49:43 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 19:35:07 (4.816±4.8 days) (1426;227)
Jun 09 20:49:43 <buzco> CoreDump|home: technically yes
Jun 09 20:49:54 <buzco> practically all neat thinkpads here have ati chipsets
Jun 09 20:49:57 <quitte> wow that still works
Jun 09 20:49:58 <buzco> and that ones are unusable
Jun 09 20:50:04 <CoreDump|home> buzco: ugh =(
Jun 09 20:50:06 <buzco> it's even so bad, that i just sold mine at a slight loss
Jun 09 20:50:21 <buz> wtf happend with my nichk anyway
Jun 09 20:50:50 <buz> the t60 was less than a month old, aside of the ati chip it was by far the best notebook i ever came across
Jun 09 20:50:56 <buz> *sigh*
Jun 09 20:51:16 <hrw> ati chipsets are OK. ati graphics cards suxx
Jun 09 20:51:39 <buz> well its not really a graphic card in a notebook
Jun 09 20:51:44 <buz> more like a chip ;)
Jun 09 20:52:01 <buz> might be set of chips (not sure if dram is on chip or not)
Jun 09 20:52:28 <quitte> seems it's a good time to ask for help buying a new desktop system? I'm looking for a good socket 479y board with dvi out
Jun 09 20:52:47 <buz> 479?
Jun 09 20:52:51 <buz> hows that new?
Jun 09 20:52:57 <quitte> core2duo mobile
Jun 09 20:53:10 <buz> mhh htpc?
Jun 09 20:53:18 <quitte> ht?
Jun 09 20:53:30 <buz> home theater
Jun 09 20:53:45 <quitte> no. I just want it to be energy efficient
Jun 09 20:53:52 <buz> (personally i dont think i'd bother with mobile cpu in desktop, the boards are just too expensive)
Jun 09 20:54:20 <quitte> my machine runs 24/7. it definately pays within one year
Jun 09 20:54:21 <buz> and rare
Jun 09 20:54:37 <buz> it's easier with amd
Jun 09 20:54:50 <buz> there's standard socket low voltage cpu
Jun 09 20:55:15 <buz> and i think they have nforce boards with dvi
Jun 09 20:55:22 <quitte> maybe but how would I get a decent gfx card with free drivers then?
Jun 09 20:55:33 <buz> you dont ;)
Jun 09 20:57:04 <quitte> basically I want what the imac provides but about half the price. I found a lot of similar boards but they always are slightly of my wishes
Jun 09 20:58:23 <buz> get the mac mini
Jun 09 20:58:35 <buz> i dont think you can really get any cheaper with that specs
Jun 09 20:59:56 <quitte> yes you can. the mac mini is core duo. so i'd need a new cpu to get 64bit. 
Jun 09 21:00:21 <buz> oh i never cared for 64bit
Jun 09 21:01:14 <quitte> i'm completely sick of all the trouble you run into with more than a gig of ram. don't want hat ever again.
Jun 09 21:01:23 <hrw> I have to admit that dell service manual is good
Jun 09 21:01:37 <hrw> and openmoko screwdriver fits dell screws :)
Jun 09 21:01:47 <buz> wtf? i never had any issues with 2GB ram
Jun 09 21:02:27 <buz> with >3GB maybe
Jun 09 21:02:28 <hrw> buz: some people does not like that lowmem/highmem things
Jun 09 21:02:30 <quitte> i even had trouble with xen and just 1G of ram
Jun 09 21:02:35 <CoreDump|home> quitte: lol? I've been using 2Gb for _years_ w/o problems
Jun 09 21:02:51 <buz> yeah me too
Jun 09 21:03:24 <buz> even on really cheap desktop boards
Jun 09 21:03:46 <Psi_> i had 2gb for quite a while with no problems too
Jun 09 21:03:57 <CoreDump|home> while we are so obviously off-topic: did anyone here try running a Core 2 Quad in a Shuttle barebone?
Jun 09 21:04:09 <CoreDump|home> the psu's look quite under-powered for that
Jun 09 21:04:10 <buz> i have bad experiene with shuttle
Jun 09 21:04:23 <buz> they are noise, mainboards and psu fail all the time
Jun 09 21:04:31 <CoreDump|home> buz: =\
Jun 09 21:04:57 <buz> core 2 quad is way overpriced anyway
Jun 09 21:05:05 <CoreDump|home> ~500€
Jun 09 21:05:24 <buz> i dont think i ever paid more than 150EUR for a cpu in the past 7 years
Jun 09 21:05:40 <buz> (maybe aside of notebooks, where it's not always clear just how much the cpu really costs)
Jun 09 21:06:02 <CoreDump|home> buz: I need a build machine, c2q looks like a very good choice for that
Jun 09 21:06:55 <buz> looks memory starved to me
Jun 09 21:07:01 <noon> is there a way to build the openmoko system for my desktop computer with the gcc and binutils from my desktop without using monotone and a crosscompiler?
Jun 09 21:07:02 <CoreDump|home> oh well, it will have to wait a few month anyway
Jun 09 21:07:05 <buz> opteron might be a better fit
Jun 09 21:07:34 <CoreDump|home> buz: but C2D smokes Optereon* in each and every benchmark.
Jun 09 21:07:45 <buz> in 2 way sure
Jun 09 21:07:55 <buz> i wouldnt entirely bet it to be the same in 4way config
Jun 09 21:08:30 <CoreDump|home> buz: interesting, I shall do some research into the matter, thanks for the headsup =)
Jun 09 21:08:43 <buz> but then again i have never needed 4way
Jun 09 21:08:59 <buz> it's just that HT is inherently a better design for massively parallel configs than intels FSB cruft
Jun 09 21:09:33 <buz> and who knows, maybe barcelona will be here soon
Jun 09 21:09:55 <quitte> barcelona?
Jun 09 21:10:05 <CoreDump|home> hmm, many things can change in a few month, that is for certain
Jun 09 21:11:05 <buz> barcelona is something like K9 or K10
Jun 09 21:11:43 <buz> tho if you really need performance, there's no way around power6 ;)
Jun 09 21:12:35 <quitte> ah. I'm glad amd is ruled out because of the gfx. once I figured out what cpu I want I was urprised to see just how big a mess it is to decide on a chipset
Jun 09 21:13:49 <buz> well for a build machine gfx shouldnt matter much
Jun 09 21:14:00 <CoreDump|home> exactly
Jun 09 21:14:05 <quitte> that'S CoreDump|homes prblem ;)
Jun 09 21:14:18 <CoreDump|home> gfx? I don't think so
Jun 09 21:14:20 <hrw> speaking about gfx.. I need cheap pci-express nvidia card - what you suggest?
Jun 09 21:14:20 <buz> it's quite simple rellay
Jun 09 21:14:37 <CoreDump|home> hrw: the ~70€ Asus passively cooled one
Jun 09 21:14:38 <buz> buy intel 965 with integrated graphics
Jun 09 21:14:47 <buz> that should soon supported by any linux distro
Jun 09 21:15:03 <hrw> CoreDump|home: I want 30-40EUR one ;)
Jun 09 21:15:03 <quitte> buz thats santa rosa? I haven'T seen a single 975< board,yet
Jun 09 21:15:08 <CoreDump|home> hrw: heh sry
Jun 09 21:15:13 <quitte> s/</y
Jun 09 21:15:14 <buz> santa rosa is for notebook i think
Jun 09 21:15:25 <quitte> buz: yes
Jun 09 21:15:27 <buz> 965 for desktop should have been around since a while???
Jun 09 21:15:33 <buz> (but i dont track desktop these days)
Jun 09 21:15:46 <CoreDump|home> buz: it is
Jun 09 21:15:53 <quitte> buz: unfortunately they didn't make any 965 boards with 975y socket afaict
Jun 09 21:17:04 <buz> check industrial pc makers
Jun 09 21:17:09 <buz> their boards are very expensive
Jun 09 21:17:13 <noon> bye
Jun 09 21:17:15 <buz> but usually come up with very exotic stuff
Jun 09 21:17:28 <hrw> 965 boards lack DVI :(
Jun 09 21:18:40 <quitte> bah. board manufacturers should involve the community more. seems to work very nicely for the neo
Jun 09 21:19:29 <buz> quitte: fic makes mainboards
Jun 09 21:19:35 <buz> you should talk to them ;)
Jun 09 21:20:03 <quitte> sure. once p1.5 is on sale
Jun 09 21:22:00 <buz> maybe they could also start making high quality laptops
Jun 09 21:22:05 <buz> with guaranteed linux support
Jun 09 21:22:07 <buz> i would so buy that
Jun 09 21:22:12 <CoreDump|home> same here
Jun 09 21:22:23 <Kensan> mickey|dinner: pulseaudio reciped contains an error which breaks Mokomakefile dev-image for x86. I attached a patch to bugzilla (Bug #599).
Jun 09 21:22:25 <buz> but it would have to thinkpad like quality
Jun 09 21:22:54 <buz> shouldnt even be that hard
Jun 09 21:23:02 <buz> (mkaing linux notebooks i mean)
Jun 09 21:23:56 <quitte> and it needs a trackpoint. I don't even like using a mouse anymore.
Jun 09 21:24:10 <buz> actually i still prefer mice to trackpoint
Jun 09 21:24:12 <CoreDump|home> buz: yeah, with up-to-date components (BT2, 54Mbit WIFI, card reader etc) and 100% OSS drivers
Jun 09 21:24:19 <CoreDump|home> I would _so_ buy it
Jun 09 21:24:27 <buz> its not very hard actually
Jun 09 21:24:32 <buz> just use all intel components and you're set
Jun 09 21:24:38 <quitte> don't forget a free bios
Jun 09 21:24:39 <buz> and use a sane bios 
Jun 09 21:24:44 <CoreDump|home> buz: That's why I buy samsung =)
Jun 09 21:24:54 <buz> yeah lenovo can do that too
Jun 09 21:24:57 <buz> they just wont sell it to me
Jun 09 21:24:58 <buz> idiots
Jun 09 21:25:01 <CoreDump|home> buz: only the DVB-T receiver won't work
Jun 09 21:25:15 <buz> i dont care much for tv
Jun 09 21:27:50 <hrw> cu
Jun 09 21:29:38 <CoreDump|home> cya hrw|gone 
Jun 09 21:30:30 <quitte> hmm. at 300dpi a 12.1" display would be pretty much exactly 1600x1200. 
Jun 09 21:30:30 <CoreDump|home> buz: Neither do I. I don't even know when I last turned on my TV at home. But it is a matter of principle. If I spend $$$$ for a notebook, all its components should work
Jun 09 21:30:49 <buz> na
Jun 09 21:30:53 <buz> only the ones i care about
Jun 09 21:31:46 <CoreDump|home> buz: I wrote a Linux Howto about the previous Samasung I owned. Samsung poited to my homepage when you were looking for "Linux Support" hehe
Jun 09 21:31:56 <buz> nice
Jun 09 21:32:35 <CoreDump|home> also I wrote a nasty mail to (incompetent)  german Samsung Technical Support about their shoddy VGA BIOS
Jun 09 21:32:59 <CoreDump|home> never received an answer but the newer samsungs have a _much_ improved BIOS
Jun 09 21:34:31 <buz> vga bios might not even be their fault
Jun 09 21:34:37 <buz> those can come from vga vendor too
Jun 09 21:36:20 <CoreDump|home> true
Jun 09 21:36:44 <CoreDump|home> but I have to say, Samsung has one of the _worst_ websites I've ever seen
Jun 09 21:40:03 <buz> lenovo's is quite likely worse
Jun 09 21:41:37 <CoreDump|home> It usually takes me an hour to find the correct download site for my laptop ( there are multiple but only providing windows crap )
Jun 09 22:16:30 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]] [[Community_Events]] [[Press_Coverage]]
Jun 09 22:28:30 <rwhitby> morning
Jun 09 23:39:22 <LuitvD> well well, it seems like AT&T's sales guide leaked :D
Jun 09 23:39:31 <LuitvD> info about the iPhone :) yummy
Jun 09 23:40:44 <LuitvD> haven't seen anything really revolutionary though...
Jun 09 23:41:37 <adhoc_> LuitvD: you're suggesting that there will be an iPhone?
Jun 09 23:41:47 <adhoc_> LuitvD: from apple? or Linksys?
Jun 09 23:42:04 <LuitvD> adhoc_: apple iphone
Jun 09 23:42:19 <LuitvD> adhoc_: do you think there won't be one then?
Jun 09 23:43:50 <adhoc_> no idea, but there was a legal wrangle going on, i wasn't holding out for it tho 
Jun 09 23:44:05 <adhoc_> so har far away, do you recon?
Jun 09 23:44:13 <adhoc_> s/har/how/
Jun 09 23:44:13 <apt> adhoc_ meant: so how far away, do you recon?
Jun 09 23:44:29 <LuitvD> adhoc_: they announced it for the 29th in the US
Jun 09 23:45:12 <LuitvD> and AT&T salesmen (and women ofcourse) have recieved a Sales Training Workbook for the iPhone
Jun 09 23:45:17 <LuitvD> now already
Jun 09 23:47:49 <LuitvD> i guess linksys' (cisco's) claims didn't stop apple from using the brand name...
Jun 09 23:47:57 <LuitvD> isn't cisco systems canadian?
Jun 09 23:55:41 <SpeedEvil> Apple paid cisco
Jun 09 23:55:46 <SpeedEvil> IIRRC
Jun 10 00:52:36 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: ah cool. wasn't sure how that all ended up
Jun 10 01:16:06 <freak132> Has anyone started any interesting user applications for the openmoko yet?
Jun 10 01:18:34 <Moo^^> o/
Jun 10 01:18:45 <Moo^^> waiting for the browser and javascript
Jun 10 01:18:52 * SpeedEvil is prototyping crap.
Jun 10 01:18:55 <quitte> does someone happen to know where i can find the lzma patch for squashfs3.1?
Jun 10 01:19:01 <SpeedEvil> but only prototyping
Jun 10 01:19:14 <SpeedEvil> basically different ideas for gata entry.
Jun 10 01:20:10 <freak132> that reminds me of a little thing i would like to do on the openmoko, do you think its powerful enough to do sound distortion on the mic input?
Jun 10 01:22:13 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Jun 10 01:22:39 <SpeedEvil> Apps like voice changers on inbound and outbound voices during calls have been raised.
Jun 10 01:23:04 <SpeedEvil> For example - if you find someones voice annoyingly high, you set them so that they are on a pitch reducer.
Jun 10 01:28:17 <SpeedEvil> Or compression on people who talk too softly
Jun 10 01:29:21 <freak132> but can it give me the distorted voice used by kidnappers in movies?
Jun 10 01:29:28 <freak132> does the openmoko have a DSP chip in it?
Jun 10 01:31:01 <SpeedEvil> no
Jun 10 01:31:21 <SpeedEvil> CPU is plenty fast enogh for simple effects.
Jun 10 01:31:31 <SpeedEvil> think pentium 100
Jun 10 01:32:14 <freak132> its not actually a pentium 100 is it? i would have thought ARM of 200 to 400mhz
Jun 10 01:32:39 <SpeedEvil> it's got much less cache
Jun 10 01:32:46 <SpeedEvil> and no FPU
Jun 10 01:33:04 <freak132> no fpu at all? well shit, that's no fun
Jun 10 01:33:27 <SpeedEvil> it's slightly faster - for some things, but generally not twovce as fast
Jun 10 01:33:53 <freak132> in what terms are you speaking? in terms of actual speed or in mhz?
Jun 10 01:34:02 <SpeedEvil> actual speed
Jun 10 01:34:13 <SpeedEvil> it's running at 266
Jun 10 01:35:03 <freak132> up to 266
Jun 10 01:35:11 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 10 01:37:58 <freak132> i dont see anywhere that says it doesnt have an FPU
Jun 10 01:38:16 <SpeedEvil> read the chip datasheet 
Jun 10 01:40:17 <freak132> i hope that doesnt affect its ability to do audio transforms
Jun 10 01:40:37 <SpeedEvil> not really
Jun 10 01:40:51 <SpeedEvil> fixed point is fine too.
Jun 10 01:41:16 <freak132> it depends on the algorithms used for the transforms
Jun 10 01:41:35 <SpeedEvil> you can recode most all of them.
Jun 10 01:41:53 <SpeedEvil> but for simple lo-fi stuff, it's not an isue.
Jun 10 01:42:48 * freak132 just wants everyone to know that he wouldnt be using a voice distortion feature for kidnappings or anything evil. just little pranks
Jun 10 01:43:59 <SpeedEvil> The audio in and out paths to the GSM module are completely under software control, so you can do all sorts of fun stuff.
Jun 10 01:44:26 <freak132> joy
Jun 10 01:46:17 <freak132> i hope such operations wouldnt suck too much batter
Jun 10 01:46:20 <freak132> battery*
Jun 10 01:46:49 <adhoc_> interesting
Jun 10 01:47:52 <freak132> how so?
Jun 10 01:49:11 <adhoc_> does the system have the ability to be able to increase/decrease the clock speed on the cpu to conserver power?
Jun 10 01:49:36 <adhoc_> ie, under clock to conserve power
Jun 10 01:52:28 <CoreDump> you really don't want to do that on gta03....
Jun 10 01:52:33 <SpeedEvil> Not really
Jun 10 01:52:41 <SpeedEvil> sort-of, but not deeply
Jun 10 01:52:47 <SpeedEvil> it has a 12Mhz mode
Jun 10 01:53:02 <SpeedEvil> but, you can't use the bluetooth, or screen
Jun 10 01:53:38 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: ah ok
Jun 10 01:53:55 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: on the wiki it talks about Ethernet on usb,
Jun 10 01:53:59 <SpeedEvil> IIRC - 12MHz - 50mW 266Mhz 350mW
Jun 10 01:54:12 <adhoc_> does it have a usb host controler for other usb devices too?
Jun 10 01:54:12 <SpeedEvil> it's a fake ethernet protocol
Jun 10 01:54:15 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 10 01:54:17 <SpeedEvil> but no power
Jun 10 01:54:24 <adhoc_> ok
Jun 10 01:54:50 <adhoc_> how long before we see these in the hands of developers?
Jun 10 01:54:54 <freak132> SpeedEvil: it also seems to have an 'idle mode' which consumes half the power of full speed?
Jun 10 01:54:58 <SpeedEvil> some devs have
Jun 10 01:55:05 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: ok cool.
Jun 10 01:55:08 <SpeedEvil> freak132: not yet implemented AIUI
Jun 10 01:55:16 <freak132> somedevs have the second development version as well
Jun 10 01:55:30 <freak132> SpeedEvil: no? the wiki page should reflect that
Jun 10 01:55:37 <adhoc_> ok, i've been looking for a mobile platform for my gps based app
Jun 10 01:55:42 <SpeedEvil> I don't have concrete information.
Jun 10 01:55:52 <SpeedEvil> GPS does work in slow mode
Jun 10 01:56:25 <adhoc_> nice. im interested in mapping with something like this
Jun 10 01:56:47 <SpeedEvil> [[openstreetmap]] on the wiki may be of interest
Jun 10 01:57:05 <adhoc_> yes, i have been working on adding content to it
Jun 10 01:57:33 <adhoc_> and thus im looking at somthing a little more automatic to capturing data
Jun 10 01:57:47 <adhoc_> with a sensible UI and display
Jun 10 01:58:08 <adhoc_> ideally an 18 hour run time
Jun 10 01:58:44 <freak132> I just want to capture where i go during the day
Jun 10 01:58:52 <adhoc_> freak132: yes, likewise
Jun 10 01:59:07 <SpeedEvil> there are standalone gps devices with SD cards
Jun 10 01:59:13 <SpeedEvil> $100 or so
Jun 10 01:59:30 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: yes i have seen those with the digital cameras
Jun 10 01:59:30 <SpeedEvil> log NMEA to the card
Jun 10 01:59:48 <adhoc_> but they are not interactive and can not annotate things at this time
Jun 10 02:00:03 <SpeedEvil> true
Jun 10 02:00:16 <SpeedEvil> voice notes would be very nice
Jun 10 02:00:21 <adhoc_> annotation is what i am hoping to add to my app
Jun 10 02:01:10 <adhoc_> vioce is something i haven't thought of yet
Jun 10 02:01:41 <adhoc_> however i recently baught a belkin voice recorder for my ipod,
Jun 10 02:01:52 <adhoc_> mainly for informal interviews
Jun 10 02:03:12 <adhoc_> damn, my last openstreetmap session has been lost =/
Jun 10 02:04:51 <SpeedEvil> bluetooth headset would be nice.
Jun 10 02:05:03 <SpeedEvil> voice activated.
Jun 10 02:05:09 <adhoc_> for the OpenMoko ?
Jun 10 02:05:21 <SpeedEvil> For OSM logging
Jun 10 02:05:29 <adhoc_> ah, nice idea
Jun 10 02:05:42 <adhoc_> next you'll say voice recognition
Jun 10 02:05:56 <SpeedEvil> That's harder.
Jun 10 02:05:59 <adhoc_> start and stop commands with naming for saved files ;)
Jun 10 02:06:03 <SpeedEvil> Though - amenity:fuel - forex
Jun 10 02:06:27 <adhoc_> hrm
Jun 10 02:06:45 <adhoc_> this is something to consider for the mini-conf next year
Jun 10 02:07:01 <SpeedEvil> I've been looking at using multiple cameras also.
Jun 10 02:07:11 <adhoc_> video or still ?
Jun 10 02:07:18 <freak132> vista computers can barely manage voice recognition, dont expect to take voice recognition notes on a cell
Jun 10 02:07:21 <SpeedEvil> Several cheap cameras with largish flash cards and the shutters glued down.
Jun 10 02:07:33 <SpeedEvil> freak132: very limited word-set
Jun 10 02:07:33 <adhoc_> freak132: vista does a lot more, 
Jun 10 02:07:49 <SpeedEvil> Total vocab commonly of maybe 30-50 words
Jun 10 02:07:56 <SpeedEvil> (that you'd want to recognise.
Jun 10 02:08:00 <adhoc_> freak132: remember there was functiona voice recognition uin 1990 on 100mhz ppsc
Jun 10 02:08:09 <SpeedEvil> But it doesn't need to be done in real time.
Jun 10 02:08:12 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: yeah
Jun 10 02:08:35 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: you could just wait for a voice event and process each bit
Jun 10 02:08:42 <SpeedEvil> Idea of the cameras is to make a panorama basically
Jun 10 02:08:56 <adhoc_> SpeedEvil: ok, that makes sense. 
Jun 10 02:08:57 <SpeedEvil> it'd be nicest of course if you could sync them,
Jun 10 02:09:06 <adhoc_> how would you store and stitch that?
Jun 10 02:09:28 <SpeedEvil> More view to give context to a voice note
Jun 10 02:09:47 <adhoc_> i have seen a project last year at linux conf with a hat with eight cameras on it
Jun 10 02:10:03 <SpeedEvil> Multiple high quality stiched video would be lovely. Also fairly spendy.
Jun 10 02:10:09 <adhoc_> activated by a usb event, as all were connected to a usb hub and laptiop
Jun 10 02:10:41 <SpeedEvil> I've also contemplated IR filters, and a large IR flash.
Jun 10 02:10:50 <SpeedEvil> To pick out reteroreflective paint.
Jun 10 02:10:59 <SpeedEvil> In signs, for example.
Jun 10 02:11:18 <adhoc_> why signs?
Jun 10 02:11:32 <SpeedEvil> roadsigns
Jun 10 02:11:33 <adhoc_> sign that are very reflective at night?
Jun 10 02:11:34 <SpeedEvil> foo place
Jun 10 02:12:12 <SpeedEvil> Most signs these days have paint that reflects most light that hits them in the direction of that light.
Jun 10 02:12:42 <SpeedEvil> Hence a flash with a camera nearby will make the sign several hundred times brighter than an adjacent 'white' area
Jun 10 02:12:55 <adhoc_> you could also take these in the daylight if you are useing a IR flash and filter that removes visible light?
Jun 10 02:13:56 <SpeedEvil> Ideally.
Jun 10 02:14:07 <SpeedEvil> Several dozen, rather, not hundred
Jun 10 02:15:30 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]]
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