**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 10 02:59:57 2007 Jun 10 04:16:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Calendar]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] Jun 10 06:16:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[History]] Jun 10 07:49:36 hi Jun 10 07:49:48 are there ruby bindings for the openmoko api? Jun 10 07:50:38 if not, would it be useful to have any? Jun 10 08:16:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Coding_Guidelines]] [[Calendar]] Jun 10 08:19:34 good morning Jun 10 08:20:22 evenen Jun 10 08:27:06 Hello, everyone Jun 10 08:27:17 hi pavelm Jun 10 08:43:25 evening Jun 10 08:45:46 hello, it's morning here. Jun 10 08:46:31 hello, it's whatever here! Jun 10 08:47:17 good whatever there Jun 10 08:47:31 you too :) Jun 10 08:47:35 oh, thanks Jun 10 08:50:41 good morning Jun 10 08:51:13 how's the weather in whatever? Jun 10 08:52:04 it seems to be a beatiful summer's whatever Jun 10 08:54:02 hi Jun 10 08:56:19 * pavelm hopefully finally created small-enough debian/arm checkout. Jun 10 08:56:20 it is slightly raining in whatever here Jun 10 08:59:19 Sunny here. Jun 10 08:59:50 My bedroom was 29.6 degrees celsius yesterday. Jun 10 09:00:13 ...and then I found out that python-gtk2 is 70MB :-( Jun 10 09:00:13 ...but I can install flite in few megs, so at least I can get openmoko to talk ;-) Jun 10 09:03:12 counter Jun 10 09:03:12 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 13:28:22 (4.561±4.6 days) (1427;227) Jun 10 09:03:21 it is hot here. not 29.6-indoors hot, yet, but hot. Jun 10 09:03:32 ewanm89: that's nothing... it was over 31 degrees outdoors here yesterday Jun 10 09:03:50 today it's more comfortable Jun 10 09:03:54 can a official person verify the release of P1 in the next week? Jun 10 09:04:13 don't think so... Jun 10 09:04:17 LuitvD: Where were you? Jun 10 09:04:27 :/ Jun 10 09:04:27 the netherlands Jun 10 09:04:59 middle of the netherlands, and right at a spot where it didn't rain a bit at all... Jun 10 09:05:12 you should have seen the lightning storms around us... Jun 10 09:05:25 LuitvD: It was at about 6o'clock last night when I took that temp, it was probably higher, I'll check highest temperature. Jun 10 09:06:25 oh no, wait... I guess that 31 degrees was the day before yesterday already Jun 10 09:06:37 yesterday was around 30... still quite warm Jun 10 09:07:04 friday was amazing, with that lightning all around Jun 10 09:07:13 LuitvD: It hit 32.6 on the 25 of may Jun 10 09:07:24 and where is that? Jun 10 09:07:33 Dorset, UK. Jun 10 09:07:40 in or outside? Jun 10 09:08:31 in, 29.6 outside is highest so far this year, but that day wasn't logged (radio signal was lost for a couple of months). Jun 10 09:09:27 may was bloody hot already Jun 10 09:09:41 but friday was horrible Jun 10 09:09:55 lol Jun 10 09:10:13 we were in the middle of two high pressure ... 'field' or something Jun 10 09:10:44 the clouds circled around both, and compressed in the middle Jun 10 09:10:59 right above belgium and the netherlands Jun 10 09:11:27 LuitvD: are you a pilot? Jun 10 09:11:28 * LuitvD tries to find the weather-radar reports Jun 10 09:11:33 balrog-kun: no, why? Jun 10 09:12:27 pilots usually know about weather stuff, and i saw you post some aeroplane picture an other dya :p Jun 10 09:12:53 balrog-kun: ah, no I'm just interested in stuff like that Jun 10 09:13:06 check this out: http://buienradar.nl/h.aspx?id=96879068&jaar=2007&maand=06&dag=08&bliksem=1 Jun 10 09:13:07 ah okay Jun 10 09:13:34 those yellow crosses are lightning strikes in a 5-minute period Jun 10 09:14:07 the left lightning cloud that's over the northsea on this picture went straight over the south-side of the netherlands Jun 10 09:14:24 missing my hometown by a mile Jun 10 09:14:42 the one in the middle is passing our town north Jun 10 09:14:50 and the right bottom one on the south too Jun 10 09:15:05 * balrog-kun had to study all this at paraglider piloting course, but already forgot most of what he knew in meteorology Jun 10 09:15:58 anyhow, more then 500 lightning detections per 5 minutes on a 50x50km range is bloody well amazing Jun 10 09:16:00 lol, I need to know some when sailing. Jun 10 09:16:11 it's a record here... Jun 10 09:16:44 yep, groung radio antenni and dont transmit any signals. Jun 10 09:17:05 I wonder how many got fried. Jun 10 09:17:05 trying to get a meteosat image... Jun 10 09:17:36 ewanm89: i tried listening for them too, when a cloud of lightning was passing by just a kilometer north Jun 10 09:17:46 it was really odd Jun 10 09:18:00 * ewanm89 want satelite recieving gear to recieve pics straight of sat. Jun 10 09:18:17 radio to MW band, and tune just next to a channel Jun 10 09:18:22 hmm Jun 10 09:18:41 why do the developers want to replace gtk and not add missing functionality? Jun 10 09:19:03 Yeah my amateur equipment can pic up lightning anywhere on the spectrum. Jun 10 09:19:06 normally you hear a snap and a little crackle like that. last friday it was crackling all around :D Jun 10 09:19:16 i don't think they want to replace gtk because of missing functionality Jun 10 09:19:22 mitsuhiko: Sometimes it's easier. Jun 10 09:19:36 ewanm89: MW band just a few kHz off a channel works best Jun 10 09:20:16 LuitvD: My sensitive equipment can get it anywhere. Jun 10 09:21:03 yeah, it's even detectable in the GSM and WiFi bands Jun 10 09:21:29 balrog-kun: i heard it in michael lauers talk that "some things are not possible with old toolkits like gtk" Jun 10 09:21:54 * LuitvD still wants to build a high-range software-defined radio Jun 10 09:22:08 yep, and whatever mode, it's the emp pulses you have to watch out for, lightning can hitch a ride on a radio signal for miles. Jun 10 09:22:43 emp pulse is the weapon of the future Jun 10 09:22:46 * ewanm89 wants a hf ssb tranciever, money is a problem there (I might eventually build one). Jun 10 09:22:55 I hope MIT made sure their 'remote power supply' technique isn't influenced by lightning... Jun 10 09:22:55 Probably SSB. Jun 10 09:23:08 ssb? Jun 10 09:23:21 s/SSB/SDR/ Jun 10 09:23:23 ewanm89 meant: Probably SDR. Jun 10 09:23:27 ah Jun 10 09:23:41 mitsuhiko: hmm, i see Jun 10 09:23:47 ewanm89: heared of the HPSDR project yet? Jun 10 09:23:55 i though it was because gtk was quite slow, and probably too powerful for what openmoko needs, a phone shouldn't need all that Jun 10 09:23:55 LuitvD: Yes. Jun 10 09:24:03 it's quite nice :) Jun 10 09:24:13 good thing there's someone doing it open-source Jun 10 09:24:29 yeah, isn't that atlas backbone? Jun 10 09:24:58 ewanm89: however there are already toolkits like clutter, so it's easier to use them if they have the needed funcationality instead of adding it from scratch in gtk Jun 10 09:25:09 err, sorry this was for mitsuhiko Jun 10 09:25:26 ewanm89: I reckon it is Jun 10 09:25:46 Thought so, a while since I was last there. Jun 10 09:25:59 ewanm89: http://hpsdr.org/wiki/index.php?title=ATLAS Jun 10 09:29:49 I got an article here about janus a-d converter. Jun 10 09:30:02 balrog-kun: do you have a link to the clutter webpage? Jun 10 09:30:32 ah. got it Jun 10 09:31:49 clutter looks interesting Jun 10 09:31:57 especially because it's based on the gfoobar technology Jun 10 09:35:01 LuitvD: Odyssey looks interesting. Jun 10 09:35:26 it all does Jun 10 09:35:27 :p Jun 10 09:36:29 ofcourse, the enclosure HAD to be called pandora XD Jun 10 09:37:38 LuitvD: The problem here is half the components if the atlas are surface mounted. Jun 10 09:37:52 ewanm89: why is that a problem? Jun 10 09:38:01 hi, mikesh Jun 10 09:38:45 LuitvD: Have you tried to solder surface mounted components? Jun 10 09:39:20 yes :) Jun 10 09:39:36 down to 0604 parts Jun 10 09:39:42 LuitvD: With a air soldering iron or without? Jun 10 09:39:56 with a normal soldering iron Jun 10 09:40:10 with 0,8mm tip Jun 10 09:40:14 So you must know it's a nightmare.# Jun 10 09:40:20 :P Jun 10 09:40:28 it's acutally quite doable Jun 10 09:40:31 And I don't have any small tips. Jun 10 09:40:49 my soldering station is only 20 bucks Jun 10 09:41:02 LuitvD: I know I have done it myself. Jun 10 09:41:17 anyhow, for BGA you'd still need a reflow oven Jun 10 09:41:34 BGA and QFN is impossible to do with soldering irons Jun 10 09:42:09 I still think of building a reflow oven out of an IR toaster... Jun 10 09:42:25 maybe then I can build my own phone :P Jun 10 09:44:45 lartza: Is your soldering station good? Jun 10 09:45:41 LuitvD: Is your soldering station good? Jun 10 09:46:55 ewanm89: it's okay Jun 10 09:47:08 it's my first anyways... Jun 10 09:47:40 it's an AOYUE Jun 10 09:49:57 stefan_schmidt: About Bug #599, did you build for x86? Jun 10 09:51:07 Kensan: x86_64 Jun 10 09:51:24 Kensan: err, sorry, for? Jun 10 09:51:51 stefan_schmidt: What's in your local.conf? Jun 10 09:52:12 Kensan: I build on x86_64 for the neo of course Jun 10 09:52:34 Kensan: Why should I use oe when building for the host platform Jun 10 09:53:23 stefan_schmidt: For development etc. see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr Jun 10 09:54:17 LuitvD: What tip type is that? chisel? Jun 10 09:54:30 err... Jun 10 09:54:33 don't know... Jun 10 09:54:48 it's somewhat flat on two sides... Jun 10 09:55:01 Yeah chisel. Jun 10 09:55:17 Kensan: For normal app development I just use configure and make in the OM-2007 folder. Jun 10 09:55:23 bbiab Jun 10 09:55:29 LuitvD: http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/index.php?target=products&product_id=6 0.2 mm conical Jun 10 09:56:36 hmm, not sure how much mm my tip is... Jun 10 09:56:38 stefan_schmidt: Bug 599 only pops up if you build for MACHINE="x86". Jun 10 10:01:30 LuitvD: Hot air ones aren't to expensive :) Jun 10 10:01:54 ewanm89_: IR toasters and a microcontroller isn't expensive either Jun 10 10:02:24 ah found it, it's a 0,6 by 0,8mm point Jun 10 10:03:42 OMG Jun 10 10:03:46 who wrote that: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage#Python Jun 10 10:03:51 "Metaprogramming is very difficult." Jun 10 10:04:26 LuitvD: 0.2 mm connical makes surface mounts real easy. Jun 10 10:06:21 ewanm89_: I bet a 0,2mm point can solder 0204 packages :P Jun 10 10:08:21 LuitvD: That is the point. Jun 10 10:08:43 Pun intended. Jun 10 10:09:35 never had to solder packages smaller then half the size of my point Jun 10 10:09:47 and I don't think I'll have to :P Jun 10 10:10:05 though there's a nicer way to solder small smd packages :) Jun 10 10:10:49 anyhow, if I'd have to solder too small packages, i can use my friend's heatgun Jun 10 10:10:57 hot-air iron Jun 10 10:10:58 LuitvD: I,ve tried stupidly small once, melted half the pcb. Jun 10 10:11:25 I might get a hot air iron. Jun 10 10:12:02 ewanm89_: why not a toaster-reflow-oven? it's a fun project to build even... Jun 10 10:12:59 and if you choose the right controller chip, you can make it a industry-grade oven... Jun 10 10:13:50 platinum temperature probe, old toaster, big relay and a protoboard is all you need Jun 10 10:14:18 So a pic16f8* won't cut it? Jun 10 10:14:43 I could get a pcb etched np. Jun 10 10:15:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Coding_Guidelines]] [[Calendar]] [[History]] [[Neo1973]] Jun 10 10:15:36 a pic16 would cut it Jun 10 10:16:04 I think I have one on a bard floating around somewhere. Jun 10 10:16:29 Need an eeprom writer though. Jun 10 10:17:22 :( Jun 10 10:19:52 * LuitvD has a Wisp programmer :D Jun 10 10:21:40 * ewanm89_ is a poor student :( Jun 10 10:22:02 Kensan: Sorry, my GF has cooked for me and it is not a good idea to let she wait then. :) Jun 10 10:23:32 stefan_schmidt: bon appetit Jun 10 10:23:34 Kensan: Yeah, I got the build problem with x86 now. As I'm not a OE expert I'm not sure if we just can remove the Target_FPU Jun 10 10:23:38 stefan_schmidt: very wise of you ;) Jun 10 10:23:53 pH5: Thanks, already finished. yummy :) Jun 10 10:24:37 stefan_schmidt: I am new to OE too, but I see no reason why one would assign a variable to itself... maybe I am missing something. Jun 10 10:25:12 LaF0rge: is the AT+CFUN=0 is gsmd init just to get reproducible starting conditions? I'd like to propose putting that into vendor_ti.c instead. Jun 10 10:25:16 Kensan: Have you tried mickey suggestion he added two minutes ago? Jun 10 10:25:35 stefan_schmidt: let me check. Jun 10 10:26:28 Kensan: Anyway I have a date with my garden now. :) Just add your infos to the bug, especially that it triggers for x86, and we track it later today. Jun 10 10:27:46 stefan_schmidt: Ok great. Jun 10 10:29:28 anyone getting this error http://rafb.net/p/MeB9Pl36.html? Jun 10 10:30:55 Kensan: well, you change the varflag 'export' of this variable Jun 10 10:31:24 Kensan: you could skip the asisgnment but it shouldn't do any damage and I wonder what the relation with do_install is? Jun 10 10:31:38 LuitvD: How hot would the temperature probe have to measure? Jun 10 10:35:41 openmoko: 03mickey * r2206 10/trunk/oe/packages/pulseaudio/pulseaudio_0.9.6.bb: oe/pulseaudio: add/remove user in libpulse. fix TARGET_FPU assignment Jun 10 10:35:52 hi tecke Jun 10 10:36:13 mickey|fic: you are missing a ken in your nick as well? Jun 10 10:36:35 zecke|breakfast: Shouldn't the variable already be exported at that point? Jun 10 10:36:53 mickey|fic: now tell me how to get a full exposure of a GdkWindow when one is doing gdk_window_move Jun 10 10:37:01 Kensan: export as in the shell sense Jun 10 10:37:41 ah..wait...svn update, will report after updating my build Jun 10 10:38:41 moin Jun 10 10:39:56 im really locking forward to the wlan compatibel fic version Jun 10 10:40:29 i was on the phone for over an hour with my actual voip phone Jun 10 10:40:34 a so called w48 Jun 10 10:40:56 zecke: yes, that's what I meant. Jun 10 10:41:18 openmoko: 03mickey * r2207 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: correct some paths to make pulseaudio startup as daemon Jun 10 10:41:26 zecke: i have no idea, sorry Jun 10 10:41:40 and just the reciver ore how the thing where u speak in is called in english weights over 600g Jun 10 10:42:01 mickey|fic: mentor? Jun 10 10:42:12 svn update solved it Jun 10 10:42:20 zecke: i'm here to guide you, not to work out itchy details ;) Jun 10 10:43:40 mickey|fic: tell me how to make irssi join two irc servers so I can pester the gimp folks Jun 10 10:43:54 * mickey|fic recommends ksirc Jun 10 10:44:14 or start another instance Jun 10 10:44:27 zecke, something like alt/ctrl + number worked Jun 10 10:44:39 mickey|fic: you should upgrade to konversation Jun 10 10:44:53 but try a grafical client, we are in the 21th now :) Jun 10 10:44:55 mickey|fic: in KDE trunk (4.0) ksirc is removed Jun 10 10:45:03 zecke: /connect Jun 10 10:45:22 in window 1 you can toggle between them Jun 10 10:45:52 nobody96: CLI clients can be more useful than GUI ones Jun 10 10:46:23 sure Jun 10 10:46:24 but irc? Jun 10 10:46:42 im using a console based one under win Jun 10 10:46:55 konversation can do multiple servers Jun 10 10:47:06 all in all its quite sane a client Jun 10 10:47:15 GUI server management are soooooo 1995 Windows NT 3.51... Jun 10 10:47:38 or more precisly im logging in to a linux box via ssh and using it there Jun 10 10:48:15 gui server management? Jun 10 10:48:30 i thougt we where talking about irc-clients :) Jun 10 10:50:17 back to the topic... Jun 10 10:50:23 * ewanm89 likes the cli Jun 10 10:50:49 me too Jun 10 10:51:06 openmoko: 03mickey * r2208 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (openmoko-session/session openmoko-session_svn.bb): oe/openmoko-session: remove playing startup sound from session file Jun 10 10:51:08 what is the prefered way to get the distribution running? Jun 10 10:51:21 nobody96: Why didnt you use /me? Jun 10 10:51:27 with qemu or running with x Jun 10 10:51:41 * nobody96 wonders himself Jun 10 10:51:57 and falls back to ugly denglisch Jun 10 10:53:24 nobody96: I prefer X as quemu has a problem with the mouse calibration app. Jun 10 10:53:59 its fixed i think Jun 10 10:54:28 didnt get an error Jun 10 10:54:42 but i get a lot others :) Jun 10 10:56:14 the cli output in qemu isnt verbose enough to get an error liked to an app Jun 10 10:56:26 but unter x there are a lot errors depending on x Jun 10 11:00:00 the problem with the app is it starts by default but qemu can't simulate the touchpad and so it can't be used. Jun 10 11:02:57 that was not a qemu problem, but it's fixed already anyway Jun 10 11:03:51 O good. Jun 10 11:03:59 s/O/Oh Jun 10 11:06:24 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=726&num=4 we should have a neo survivor ;) Jun 10 11:11:33 openmoko: 03mickey * r2209 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: set display backlight Jun 10 11:11:53 buz, that's pretty amazing, although it's just really a waterproof case around the drive, you could build one for the neo, or maybe use an adapted waterproof camera housing Jun 10 11:12:03 yeah Jun 10 11:12:04 mickey|fic: About bug #599: The ":="-Operater does not fix the problem for me. I just tried to rebuild... This might be a stupid question but why do you need an assignement statement? Jun 10 11:12:55 * koen hints at a proper fix in pulse.inc in OE Jun 10 11:13:04 dunno, this particular line originates not from me Jun 10 11:14:36 koen: PFPU? Jun 10 11:16:13 yes Jun 10 11:16:51 koen: can you explain to me why the export is needed? Jun 10 11:17:09 TARGET_FPU isn't exported to the shell by default Jun 10 11:17:35 (empirically tested) Jun 10 11:18:02 koen: ic. So there is no other way to export that var to the shell? Your fix is basically using a "temp" variable. Jun 10 11:18:27 you could fidget with export flags in base.bbclass iirc Jun 10 11:18:38 but since python makes my eyes bleed... Jun 10 11:19:13 openmoko: 03mickey * r2210 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: add some more debug Jun 10 11:19:47 is there a mailing list where i get all the commit logs? Jun 10 11:19:56 ya Jun 10 11:20:00 openmoko-commits IIRC Jun 10 11:20:12 ok lemme check Jun 10 11:20:35 koen: Ok thanks. I will take a look around. I don't like the temp var solution ;) Jun 10 11:20:54 it is commit log Jun 10 11:31:57 oh dang..when i run qemu, am getting Bad magic number in a black screen...and exits without errors...oh and the splash screen isnt shown either Jun 10 11:41:24 please try flashing the kernel again Jun 10 11:43:52 did that...no luck, Jun 10 11:43:55 everyone who updated qemu since yesterday needs to update the kernel loading address in their u-boot environment (or just reflash the whole thing using the script) Jun 10 11:44:14 btw can anyone pastebin the default local.conf thanks Jun 10 12:09:02 ewanm89_: the probe needs about 350 degrees celsius Jun 10 12:09:38 most platinum probes can have 500 Jun 10 12:10:12 cheap thermocouples will do that too Jun 10 12:10:47 yeah... probably Jun 10 12:15:01 ewanm89_: a pic16f8** can store quite a bit of heat-profiles, so it's strong enough,,, all it needs to do is read out the probe, calculate what to do, and switch a relay at the right time Jun 10 12:16:42 when openmoko is started up, where do i find a keyboard Jun 10 12:16:52 using the touchscreen? Jun 10 12:17:07 should be a button... Jun 10 12:17:46 in the upper left? Jun 10 12:17:50 this button is gone Jun 10 12:20:19 balrog-kun, "make flash-qemu-local" doesnt solve that problem Jun 10 12:23:05 strange Jun 10 12:23:27 maybe we lost compatibility with MokoMakefile again Jun 10 12:23:47 openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 3068 Terminated ( sleep $2; kill $pid; sleep 1; kill -KILL $pid ) Jun 10 12:23:47 openmoko/flash.sh: line 129: 3071 Terminated ( sleep $2; kill $pid Jun 10 12:24:06 this is okay Jun 10 12:24:09 does this suggest something.? Jun 10 12:24:19 part of the process :) Jun 10 12:24:55 ok..i will reflash without the makefile.. Jun 10 12:25:58 * balrog-kun downloads latest builds to try... Jun 10 12:26:32 um, nope, gonna try later (when the torrent finishes) :p Jun 10 12:34:26 balrog-kun, didnt work..i happen to have all the fun.. Jun 10 12:43:21 LuitvD: I worked most of it out, I just needed to know the top temp we are looking at. Jun 10 12:43:36 koen: TARGET_FPU only gets exported when it is defined. In x86 it is an empty string. So IMHO removing the export statement is the "correct" solution after all. Jun 10 12:43:50 ewanm89_: I guess you won't really need anything above 300 Jun 10 12:44:13 ewanm89_: it's best to look at some reflow-specs in chip datasheets Jun 10 12:44:41 The price increase from 200 degree probes to 300 is quite a lot. Jun 10 12:56:58 * * OM Bug 600 has been created by philipp.zabel@gmail.com Jun 10 12:56:59 * * openmoko-dialer hardcodes widget sizes Jun 10 12:57:00 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=600 Jun 10 13:00:57 * * OM Bug 601 has been created by philipp.zabel@gmail.com Jun 10 13:00:58 * * libmokoui hardcodes widget sizes Jun 10 13:00:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=601 Jun 10 13:02:11 morning Jun 10 13:06:23 * SpeedEvil reverts ewons morning. Jun 10 13:06:42 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jun 10 13:06:49 gninrom Jun 10 13:06:53 I wonder why people do that to wikis. Jun 10 13:17:57 Stefan_Schmidt: see bugzilla for some updated info on bug #599. Jun 10 13:40:16 counter Jun 10 13:40:16 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 11:09:50 (4.465±4.5 days) (1428;227) Jun 10 14:15:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction/it]] [[OpenMoko/it]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/it]] [[Current_events]] Jun 10 14:56:32 counter? Jun 10 14:56:33 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 10:31:42 (4.439±4.4 days) (1429;227) Jun 10 14:58:45 <_llll_> '/msg aloril counter' gives exactly the same thing tho.. Jun 10 15:07:30 _llll_: try /msg aloril counter? Jun 10 15:07:41 (with question mark at the end) Jun 10 15:08:37 <_llll_> ah, needs the "?". Jun 10 15:16:22 what use is it to have a probability of less than 45% in a guess? Jun 10 15:17:43 None - without what that guess applies to. Jun 10 15:35:18 buz: well, from 100 actions with similar probability, 45 should actually happen:) Jun 10 15:35:29 But I don't think there is much more use of that:) Jun 10 15:35:37 i know how probabilities work Jun 10 15:35:44 I was just joking:) Jun 10 15:35:51 i just dont think guesses with less than 50% probability are very usefu Jun 10 15:36:19 I guess it's just "but really, don't take this number seriously" Jun 10 15:36:20 neither is guessing in general Jun 10 15:52:27 hi Jun 10 15:53:20 Hello. Jun 10 15:53:56 * SpeedEvil contemplates angel-tubgirl. Jun 10 15:54:07 oops Jun 10 15:54:11 err - mischan. Jun 10 15:54:27 Sigh. Jun 10 15:55:38 * SpeedEvil wishes there was a way to undo that sort of thing on IRC. Jun 10 15:56:17 SpeedEvil: =) Jun 10 16:03:38 nice.. Jun 10 16:13:51 is there a hardware change ongoing? Jun 10 16:14:19 do you reckon neverputt, and neverball would be able to run on the neo? Jun 10 16:14:43 mitsuhiko: in what sense? Jun 10 16:15:11 look at the page Neo1973 on the wiki mitsuhiko. Jun 10 16:15:14 SpeedEvil: someone told me that wifi should be in the next phase Jun 10 16:15:27 yeah. Jun 10 16:15:29 it's 3d game, and not light 3d game Jun 10 16:15:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Look_%26_Feel]] [[Advanced_End-user/bg]] [[Date_%26_Time_Preview]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Geek]] [[Application_Developer]] [[Talk:Development_resources]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] [[Main_Page/ru]] and other changes Jun 10 16:15:36 several month Jun 10 16:15:50 ah Jun 10 16:16:04 The first version - no wifi Jun 10 16:17:29 * SpeedEvil stabs wiki vandals. Jun 10 16:18:13 SpeedEvil: well. i heard something similar in michaels presentation Jun 10 16:18:18 just that it sounded like this will post 2007 Jun 10 16:18:24 s/will/will be/ Jun 10 16:18:24 mitsuhiko meant: just that it sounded like this will be post 2007 Jun 10 16:19:17 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 has the current info. Jun 10 16:20:23 Also - there may be 'ret' before jump targets Jun 10 16:20:25 oops Jun 10 16:23:12 sPEEDeVIL: I googled tubgirl and I want my eyes back Jun 10 16:23:36 Sorry. Jun 10 16:23:51 * SpeedEvil pulls out noidds eyes, cleans them, and replaces. Jun 10 16:24:29 * webjames shakes at the thought of that Jun 10 16:27:40 noidd: hehe Jun 10 16:31:21 openmoko: 03mickey * r2211 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: use proper g_open flags, fix samplename Jun 10 16:33:21 spending the day making muppets Jun 10 16:33:29 my TV show starts filming in 2 days Jun 10 16:33:30 and I don' Jun 10 16:33:38 don't have half the cast built yet Jun 10 16:33:43 mickeyl: hey Jun 10 16:33:49 hi Jun 10 16:34:04 * mickeyl tired Jun 10 16:34:19 Hi. Jun 10 16:34:57 oh, you're due out to Tai Pai soon right? Jun 10 16:35:07 * mickeyl in Teipai Jun 10 16:35:16 whats it like out there? Jun 10 16:35:21 I've always wanted to go to the far east Jun 10 16:35:33 raining, 75% humidity Jun 10 16:35:36 * noidd lives his life through his stomach - hows the food? :-) Jun 10 16:35:45 good food, nothing to worry about Jun 10 16:35:53 mickeyl: and you are badly jet-lagged? Jun 10 16:36:23 zecke: not that bad actually. having more or less catched up. i'm supertired now and it's 00:36, so that's ok Jun 10 16:36:35 What you up to out there? Jun 10 16:36:40 working weekend i'm sure :-P Jun 10 16:36:57 sure thing. working two weeks w/ FIC and OpenMoko on things... Jun 10 16:37:27 can you elaborate on "things" ? :-) Jun 10 16:37:35 we guessed you were there with fic Jun 10 16:37:47 :-) Jun 10 16:38:27 "No" is an acceptable answer, we just have to ask Jun 10 16:38:47 it'll be mainly working on structure and planning the next 12 months Jun 10 16:39:25 PMs and budgets, bleugh Jun 10 16:40:31 mickeyl: added some more info to bug #599. Jun 10 16:41:49 k Jun 10 16:55:56 openmoko: 03mickey * r2212 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: fix thinko in brightness calculation and set sleep timeout to 5m Jun 10 18:15:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Madjo]] [[User:Speedevil]] [[User:Alexpb]] [[User:Seba]] [[User:Minime]] [[Talk:Wishlist:context_based_to-do_list]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[Talk:Battery]] [[User:Richardb]] [[Wishlist:Determine_Position]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] and other changes Jun 10 18:18:51 wow Jun 10 18:18:58 lots of spam and vandalism in the wiki Jun 10 18:19:19 * SpeedEvil noticed. Jun 10 18:20:10 * Vegar (was looking at your efforts in recent changes) Jun 10 18:23:55 Who's the person who actually runs the wiki server? Jun 10 18:24:31 maybe LaF0rge? Jun 10 18:24:41 one of the germans i'd guess Jun 10 18:24:43 Hmm - found the wikiadmins page Jun 10 18:25:10 counter? Jun 10 18:25:11 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 08:47:23 (4.366±4.4 days) (1430;228) Jun 10 18:46:10 Hello! Jun 10 18:47:33 Hello again. Jun 10 18:48:22 hello Jun 10 18:48:24 counter Jun 10 18:48:25 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 08:35:46 (4.358±4.4 days) (1431;228) Jun 10 18:48:51 4 days from... never! Jun 10 18:49:14 four days from graduation :D Jun 10 18:49:19 The counter is basically held in not very wide esteem. Jun 10 18:49:20 (or whatever it's called) Jun 10 18:49:27 (end of high school) Jun 10 18:49:35 yep, graduation Jun 10 18:49:47 'Entry into the dreary world of work'? Jun 10 18:49:54 would be a nice graduation gift then... :) Jun 10 18:51:08 SpeedEvil: yeah, ah well... already have working experience Jun 10 19:59:26 does anyone know if openmoko will be compatible with the Touch? the processor is "OMAP850 running at 201Mhz" Jun 10 19:59:38 It depends. Jun 10 20:00:01 You not only need processor to be supported by GCC. Jun 10 20:00:04 the res. is pretty poor to: 240 x 320 pixels Jun 10 20:00:05 HTC Touch? Jun 10 20:00:12 Vegar: yes Jun 10 20:00:19 You also need the hardware to have linux drivers. Jun 10 20:00:34 Or write them. Jun 10 20:00:50 64MB RAM and 128MB Flash Jun 10 20:01:12 ahh, so i think that's a no, i guess the hardware is a little skimpy anyway Jun 10 20:01:41 i found my info at: http://www.clieuk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?threadid=11846 if anyone is interested Jun 10 20:02:40 webjames: the interface and all the programs will be compatible, but you need a working kernel for that device Jun 10 20:02:57 and yes, the resolution will make OpenMoko look rather ugly Jun 10 20:03:18 gives you an idea of how kick-ass the neo's screen is: 2.8 inches @ 240 x 320 pixels Jun 10 20:03:34 balrog-kun: yeah, i doubt if it is worth the effort Jun 10 20:04:41 I wonder how text input is done on the iphone if it doesn't have a stylus Jun 10 20:04:47 Vegar: fingers Jun 10 20:04:53 and slowly... Jun 10 20:04:54 Vegar: watch the video ads Jun 10 20:05:16 ok Jun 10 20:05:19 i bet some people have problems with that Jun 10 20:05:24 are the ads on youtube? Jun 10 20:05:31 iPhone has no stylus and no buttons? just like Neo? Jun 10 20:05:38 i wonder if the screen scratching problem they had with the nano will happen again? Jun 10 20:05:38 <[lankester]> simple question, i saw on the wiki than they found a open wifi chipset, do the neo 1972 will have wifi or we'll have to wait for the next phone ? Jun 10 20:05:38 P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) Jun 10 20:05:54 <[lankester]> ohh Jun 10 20:05:55 <[lankester]> thx aloril Jun 10 20:06:45 <[lankester]> so p1 will be available "soon" and 1.5 will follow with hopefully wifi support Jun 10 20:06:51 aloril is always quick with the info! :) Jun 10 20:07:01 webjames: you put a screen protector on it. Jun 10 20:07:14 * webjames sticks his thumb up at aloril Jun 10 20:07:35 SpeedEvil: yeah, but i bet it would come of Jun 10 20:07:45 the screen is flush with the body Jun 10 20:09:00 what happened to the 'today' screen? or the 'Home' screen? Jun 10 20:09:06 webjames: on what? Jun 10 20:09:48 webjames: It's not. You can trivally take off the case, and place it behind the case, so it can't come off. Jun 10 20:16:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers/it]] [[Talk:Sound_/_Recording_Preview]] [[Category:ToDo]] [[Press_Coverage/it]] [[Dbus_device_API]] [[Wishlist:3D_Viewport]] [[Talk:Help_Viewer]] [[Action_Button]] [[User_talk:Werner]] [[User_talk:HaraldWelte]] and other changes Jun 10 20:17:13 P1.5 is GTA02 release for developers? Jun 10 20:18:43 miip, yes Jun 10 20:19:28 and it is scheduled for Q3 ? Jun 10 20:19:48 I'm not sure if it's really scheduled anywhere at this time Jun 10 20:20:51 hmm well we will see :) Jun 10 20:27:54 <[lankester]> so if we are an user and a possible dev .. our best move for playing with an openmoko phone is to order P1 Jun 10 20:28:25 that would be advisable if you want one in the hopefully near future Jun 10 20:30:32 <[lankester]> thx :) Jun 10 20:30:48 <[lankester]> and having a new linux device is always something I want in a near future Jun 10 20:36:05 aloril: smart trigger on lankester :P Jun 10 20:57:13 why is it called GTAxx BTW? ;) Jun 10 20:57:38 The designers were a fan of Grand Theft Auto. Jun 10 20:59:41 <[lankester]> actually if it's true, it still a better reason than all the name convention that nvidia and ati came off Jun 10 21:04:16 ... or just about any names chosen by management, ever Jun 10 21:04:29 internal codenames always seem so.... ill thought ou Jun 10 21:04:31 *out Jun 10 21:04:37 any help for unlocking an L7? Jun 10 21:04:37 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) Jun 10 21:06:25 ? Jun 10 21:06:42 not sure what an L7 is Jun 10 21:07:02 a motorolla phone... Jun 10 21:07:51 ah, no, not come across it - someone else may Jun 10 21:25:20 damn, the bad weather doesn't miss us this time... Jun 10 21:25:40 Supertornado? Jun 10 21:25:43 badass lightning and hailstorm Jun 10 21:25:53 Good luck! Jun 10 21:26:00 * SpeedEvil passes LuitvD a kite. Jun 10 21:26:05 lightning with soundpressure waves Jun 10 21:26:54 * LuitvD takes the kite and tries to make green energy from lightning Jun 10 21:28:18 lightning: http://buienradar.nl/h.aspx?jaar=-3&soort=loop1uur_bliksem Jun 10 21:28:20 hail: http://buienradar.nl/h.aspx?jaar=-3&soort=hagel Jun 10 21:29:57 LuitvD: Fun. Jun 10 21:30:23 The radar reflection goes something like the seventh power of the droplet size though. Jun 10 21:30:54 It can be very misleading - small changes in droplet size mean large differences in refelctivity Jun 10 21:31:07 BANG Jun 10 21:31:15 damn, that was LOUD Jun 10 21:31:35 sounded like those lawine fireworks Jun 10 21:31:40 what's that called... Jun 10 21:31:48 half a kilometer away Jun 10 21:31:53 :S Jun 10 21:32:49 Good evening people. Jun 10 21:33:15 Neo in vienna: Neo + windows: Does not work; Neo + freebsd: works. Jun 10 21:38:00 Elrond: heya Jun 10 21:44:34 Hi Stephmw! :-) Jun 10 22:15:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Talk:USB_DFU]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers/it]] [[System_Info]] [[GPS_Connection_Status]] [[Talk:Using_Subversion]] [[Talk:Stylus]] [[Talk:Call_Preview]] [[Talk:Stylus_Scrolling]] and other changes Jun 10 22:59:02 * LuitvD is gone Jun 10 23:03:11 <_ASK> no windows support? Jun 10 23:03:28 what do you mean by windows support? Jun 10 23:03:54 <_ASK> Neo in vienna: Neo + windows: Does not work; Neo + freebsd: works. Jun 10 23:07:30 hello, everyone. Jun 10 23:07:55 I successfully created my debian chroot... works perfectly on zaurus and fails with illegal instruction on openmoko. Bad :-( Jun 10 23:08:21 counter Jun 10 23:08:22 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 06:25:47 (4.268±4.3 days) (1432;229) Jun 10 23:09:20 Is it possible that even long press of power button does not poewr fic down properly? My battery was drained today (again) when it should not have been. Jun 10 23:10:01 pavelm - Yes. Jun 10 23:10:24 pavelm - See http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=482 Jun 10 23:10:59 elrond: Thanks and hi! Jun 10 23:11:10 Yeah, Hi! Jun 10 23:11:57 _ASK - Well, I tried to fixup the .inf for the neo, but that did not get it to load properly on windows. Something "error 10". No idea, what's going wrong there. Jun 10 23:12:02 elrond: Hmm, I'd say there's more than that. Short press of power button after long press seems to blink the screen with previous image, and _then_ it is down. Jun 10 23:12:17 elrond: Any luck with pygtk? ;-) Jun 10 23:12:40 pavelm - I arrived at home about 3 hours ago. My box is on for one hour now. ;-) Jun 10 23:13:52 pavelm - At least I succeeded in ssh-ing into Neo via usb from a freebsd box. ;o) Jun 10 23:14:18 (and got BT to work a little... major result: The BT on the neo doesn't have large range.) Jun 10 23:14:47 elrond: I got bt to connect zaurus and neo on the go... that way I have usable keyboard for my gps ;-) Jun 10 23:18:13 pavelm - hehe. :-)) Jun 10 23:18:37 pavelm - I don't have a zaurus or anything else with BT (and a keyboard) Jun 10 23:19:15 Oh, other result: Jun 10 23:19:24 Using openmoko-keyboard on the train is NO fun. Jun 10 23:19:45 It took me about 15mins to power up the BT ;o) Jun 10 23:19:53 s/on the train// Jun 10 23:20:21 CoreDump|home - Well, on a normal desk it is semi-usable. Jun 10 23:20:39 all on-screen keyboards suck by definition ;) Jun 10 23:20:53 CoreDump|home - I saw Rince using it. He did "/etc/init.d/gsm start" very quickly. Jun 10 23:21:26 imagine how quick he'd be w/ a real kbd ;) Jun 10 23:22:46 the onscreen keyboad on the handspring was quite usable, and icould get about 20 WPM out of it Jun 10 23:22:58 sux to code on ... Jun 10 23:23:24 CoreDump|home - Well, I can imagine. :) Jun 10 23:24:34 Anyway: Good night people. :) Jun 10 23:33:52 elrond: Using openmoko-keyboard is no fun, period. Jun 10 23:33:59 elrond: But I guess it sucks badly on train. Jun 10 23:34:03 elrond: good night. Jun 10 23:51:49 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000289.html <- Ubuntu getting in bed with Intel. Not a bad thing in itself, but it means that the Ubuntu mobile and embedded project will probably focus around the processor in the intel mobile internet devices only. Jun 10 23:58:21 yeah Jun 10 23:58:36 it lookgs like a maemoish port to MIDs Jun 11 00:00:16 happycube: yeah, they're using hildon Jun 11 00:05:42 rwhitby: that would be a shame, if they do intel mobile internet devices only. Jun 11 00:08:14 looks ok Jun 11 00:13:23 adhoc_: Imho the ubuntu mobile/embedded was initially about UMPCs and not the real embedded arm/ppc devices. Jun 11 00:13:41 xl0: ok Jun 11 00:16:30 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Popup_Menu]] [[Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board]] [[Talk:Search]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Clock]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[Talk:Unit_Converter]] [[Media_Content]] [[Talk:Auto-complete]] and other changes Jun 11 00:25:27 * SpeedEvil stabs. Jun 11 01:06:02 What is the easiest way to install python and python-dbus to an official OM build. Jun 11 01:37:59 LaF0rge: What is the easiest way to get python and python-dbus on the phone? Jun 11 01:38:43 And I think about flashing it with the latest build. Do you have a link for me? Jun 11 01:54:36 hi holtmann Jun 11 01:54:52 holtmann: please msg your cellphone number, will+willie will need to find you there ;) Jun 11 01:55:07 holtmann: pythond and python-dbus, I can build it on buildhost, give me a minute Jun 11 01:58:29 You have my cell phone number and I sent it to Sean via email. Jun 11 01:59:00 holtmann: I should have it, but somehow it's not in my phonebook. Don't really know why... Jun 11 02:01:33 morning holtmann Jun 11 02:01:47 Morning. Jun 11 02:14:03 holtmann: python is now available as ipk's from buildhost (http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/python-*.ipk) Jun 11 02:14:12 holtmann: python-dbus will needs some more time Jun 11 02:14:26 Cool Jun 11 02:17:31 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Content]] [[Calculator]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Talk:Picture_Viewer]] [[Application_Menu]] [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Talk:Style_Sheet]] [[Dfu-util/bg]] [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] Jun 11 02:20:47 holtmann: python-dbus is on buildhost now Jun 11 02:22:14 URL please. And do you have new image build from today or so? Jun 11 02:26:43 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/python-dbus_0.71-ml0_armv4t.ipk Jun 11 02:26:56 i'll launch a build, should be ready in a couple of minutes Jun 11 02:27:38 hi keith ;) Jun 11 02:28:05 holtmann: though the image does not contain python... Jun 11 02:28:28 holtmann: is there anything else you need? Jun 11 02:28:37 holtmann: we can generate a custom image with all the packages you need Jun 11 02:34:11 counter Jun 11 02:34:12 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 04:42:52 (4.196±4.2 days) (1433;229) Jun 11 02:34:18 counter? Jun 11 02:34:18 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 04:42:49 (4.196±4.2 days) (1434;229) Jun 11 02:34:57 "/msg aloril counter?" Jun 11 02:35:09 LaF0rge: I will get back to you on that. Jun 11 02:40:57 Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 11 02:40:58 File "test-network", line 3, in ? Jun 11 02:40:58 import dbus Jun 11 02:40:58 File "/space/fic/openmoko/fic-gta01/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/python-dbus-0.71-ml0/image//usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/dbus/__init__.py", line 1, in ? Jun 11 02:40:58 File "/space/fic/openmoko/fic-gta01/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/python-dbus-0.71-ml0/image//usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/dbus/_dbus.py", line 46, in ? Jun 11 02:40:59 ImportError: No module named weakref Jun 11 02:41:13 Any ideas. I not a Python guru, but it seems that some module is missing. Jun 11 02:41:49 weakref sounds like it should be in python-lang or python-lowlevel Jun 11 02:41:52 let me look it up for ya Jun 11 02:43:20 um, why wouldn't it just be in python? Jun 11 02:43:24 yes, python-lang is it Jun 11 02:43:34 madewokherd: welcome to fine granular packaging for embedded systems Jun 11 02:43:59 I see Jun 11 02:44:01 a lot of programs can do without weakref, that's why it didnt make it into python-core Jun 11 02:55:45 morning **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 11 02:59:57 2007