**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 12 02:59:56 2007 Jun 12 03:09:34 mickey|fic: Can you get me bridge-utils package onto buildhost? Jun 12 03:10:17 Forget. I build it by myself. Jun 12 03:10:41 But in the future it would be nice to have it there. Jun 12 03:11:54 Why does bitbake bridge-utils has to build u-boot? Jun 12 03:13:28 no idea Jun 12 03:13:41 you can use bitbake -nv to print out the dependency chain (without building) Jun 12 03:17:49 NOTE: dependencies for bridge-utils are: autoconf-native automake-native libtool-native gnu-config-native ipkg-utils-native file-native fakeroot-native quilt-native virtual/arm-linux-gcc virtual/libc sysfsutils Jun 12 03:18:59 I wants to build the kernel :( Jun 12 03:21:31 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-base: Jun 12 03:21:32 blueprobe Jun 12 03:21:40 This is also crap. We don't need blueprobe at all. Jun 12 03:22:43 I am going to re-flash this device. Where can I find the latest (really latest) image. I need a 2.6.21 kernel. Jun 12 03:26:04 holtmann: you're playing with the bt headset? using a gsm call? Jun 12 03:27:32 holtmann: i could get you an image I built 5 days ago from trunk... i'm attempting to build the latest now Jun 12 03:29:22 holtmann: try buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest Jun 12 03:31:13 Will try that after lunch. The big problem only seems to get the codec working. Hopefully it is wired up correctly. Jun 12 03:31:42 yeah, knocking on wood Jun 12 03:31:57 holtmann: graeme posted a .state file that should route system audio to bt--might be easier than starting and stopping phone calls all the time Jun 12 03:32:08 system audio *out* that is Jun 12 03:33:22 fwiw, I have not been able to get stereo audio out of the phone... comes out mixed down to mono Jun 12 03:35:00 I have a local SIM card. So that is fine. Jun 12 03:35:20 Did you get anything to the BT PCM at all and then over the air. Jun 12 03:36:18 I could never get the neo to complete a phone call and I haven't tried graeme's system audio out thing yet Jun 12 03:36:33 I had to give back the sim i was borrowing :( Jun 12 03:42:34 Elrond: you were asking about evesdropping on bluetooth Jun 12 03:44:57 Elrond: very funny article by one of csr's best... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.bluez.devel/10041 Jun 12 03:47:02 mickey|fic: I also need the latest u-boot. Something is wrong with this one :( Jun 12 03:58:20 holtmann: same server, one directory up. be sure to chose the matching one Jun 12 04:01:50 Done that before ;) Jun 12 04:09:46 JFFS2 error 175 :( Jun 12 04:10:43 sounds like you stumbled over 419 Jun 12 04:10:46 !ombug 419 Jun 12 04:10:47 * * Bug 419, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Jun 12 04:10:49 * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: dfu download doesn't clean jffs2 partition Jun 12 04:10:50 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=419 Jun 12 04:11:11 please go into u-boot boot menu, log in via usb, and nand erase rootfs Jun 12 04:11:17 then flash rootfs via dfu upload again Jun 12 04:12:08 It is DFU download :) Jun 12 04:12:18 You download it into the device :) Jun 12 04:13:04 hmm that depends on your point of view ;) Jun 12 04:13:27 The specification is quite clear about it, but I know that is confuses everybody ;) Jun 12 04:13:36 yeah Jun 12 04:18:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Category:Ideas]] Jun 12 04:20:51 Now it works again. Jun 12 04:30:02 mickey|fic: Are GSM calls work with the latest build or is gsmd broken. Jun 12 05:32:58 Hi, When it's playing music, a phone call comes. What will happen? pause music or .. ? Jun 12 05:36:41 Hi, When it's playing music, a phone call comes. What will happen? pause music or .. ? Jun 12 05:39:52 littertiger001: what do you want to happen? ;-) Jun 12 06:05:57 If an app wants to play sound, does it have to handle man kinds of events? phone call interrupt eg. Jun 12 06:18:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Video_Player]] [[Talk:Hardware:AT_Commands]] [[Address_Field]] [[Talk:Sound_/_Recording_Preview]] [[Dbus_device_API]] [[Wishlist:3D_Viewport]] [[Talk:Help_Viewer]] [[Action_Button]] [[Talk:Event_Field]] [[Phone_Number_Field]] [[Talk:S3c2410_boot_usb]] Jun 12 07:32:31 can nyp Jun 12 07:32:55 *can anyone take a look at http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=602 and give me a hint, really freaking me out Jun 12 07:36:41 Sup3rkiddo eh.. did you install the resulting ipkg on the machine afterwards? Jun 12 07:37:20 roh, yeah it works like that...but i thought it would get installed automatically Jun 12 07:39:17 mornin' Jun 12 07:40:51 Sup3rkiddo nope. by default only some packages defined in the bb jungle are packed in. but everything gets built into ipks by default Jun 12 07:41:54 roh, oh no wonder...any idea how i could get my packages to be packed in Jun 12 07:41:55 Sup3rkiddo: if you want to have your packages in your images, you have to make the image recipe (or the task recipes that it depends on) recommend them. Jun 12 07:42:50 Sup3rkiddo https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb is what pulls all the other stuff with it Jun 12 07:43:15 roh, thanks for the hint Jun 12 07:43:39 it references tasks in here https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/ .. but i have no clue where to add such a package to correctly Jun 12 07:46:53 roh, wait a sec, i dont see python there...but python got installed just be adding it to local.conf.. Jun 12 07:47:00 *by Jun 12 07:52:25 morning Jun 12 07:54:45 good morning Jun 12 08:16:55 LaF0rge: Are any of the Wolfson guys online somewhere. The audio routing is not working. Jun 12 08:18:09 holtmann he's in some meeting i think Jun 12 08:18:52 holtmann: Graeme is on holiday this week Jun 12 08:19:04 holtmann: your best bet is to mail liam Jun 12 08:19:07 I have the headset working, but no audio is going from the codec to the chip. The audio over the air is perfectly fine. Jun 12 08:20:33 I need someone online to walk me through it. There must be something really broken with the codec and its settings. Jun 12 08:20:57 lrg was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 7d 15m 22s ago, saying: 'morning koen, hrw, XorA '. Jun 12 08:21:06 liam hasnt been online for a week Jun 12 08:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[System_Info]] [[Talk:Using_Subversion]] [[Talk:Stylus]] [[Talk:Call_Preview]] [[Category:ToDo]] [[Video_Player]] [[Talk:Hardware:AT_Commands]] [[Address_Field]] Jun 12 08:35:12 counter Jun 12 08:35:13 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 13:42:22 (3.571±3.6 days) (1443;227) Jun 12 08:44:19 nice active chanell here i see Jun 12 08:44:44 it comes and goes Jun 12 08:44:53 true Jun 12 08:45:36 i got 5 diff chanells open for different things, and none of them have decent convos goin - damn mornings Jun 12 08:46:17 ~botmail zecke http://www.atoker.com/blog/2007/06/12/webkitgtk-is-coming/ Jun 12 08:52:33 stefan_schmidt: alp is hanging out in this channel too ;) Jun 12 08:53:33 CM: Nice, so he and zecke should coordinate the efforts for webkitgtk. But perhaps they have already. :) Jun 12 08:55:52 stefan_schmidt: They should. Looks like a great browser to have on the neo :) Jun 12 08:56:48 CM: I never used it, but only heard good stuff about the engine Jun 12 09:29:13 LaF0rge: How busy are you? Jun 12 09:32:31 holtmann: very, sorry :( Jun 12 09:34:01 LaF0rge: very busy, and enjoying it? Jun 12 09:34:20 holtmann: lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) has joined #oe five minutes ago Jun 12 09:39:09 LaF0rge: It might be worse to check if the PCM of the Buetooth chip is wired up correctly. I only get silence. So either the wiring is wrong or the codec is not switch on. Jun 12 09:39:26 s/worse/worth/ Jun 12 09:39:26 holtmann meant: LaF0rge: It might be worth to check if the PCM of the Buetooth chip is wired up correctly. I only get silence. So either the wiring is wrong or the codec is not switch on. Jun 12 09:41:27 holtmann: I don't think anyone has ever tested the full bluetooth/pcm integration, since audio people don't understand bluetooth and vice versa Jun 12 09:42:03 Maybe only the codec is off. However I don't know how to fix that. the gsmbluetooth.state file does nothing. Jun 12 09:42:04 holtmann: not sure if it is the best idea to try to debug this at the plugfest, sounds like a bit of a waste of time to me Jun 12 09:42:40 If we only have to switch on the codec then it is fine. I am not debugging the hardware. Jun 12 09:43:22 I spoke with the CSR guys and the air traces show that the PCM of the Bluetooth chip is on and working as expected. So the problem is our hardware. Jun 12 09:44:18 holtmann: ok, good to know about the CSR side Jun 12 09:45:21 That we see air traces with silence also means that the PCM is connected somehow, but it doesn't get anything. Jun 12 09:45:55 So either IN and OUT are swapped or the codec routing is broken. The first one would be bad. The second should be fixable. Jun 12 09:50:08 i suppose it really might be a codec power/config/routing issue Jun 12 09:50:08 there's the DAC config, the audio routing, the various mixers, the LM amp, ... Jun 12 09:50:31 I know, but alone by myself, I can't make sense out of it :( Jun 12 09:50:41 I (and probably a number of other people here) would probably have tested it, if they would understand how to get the BT side to the point where it feeds PCM data Jun 12 09:51:30 but unfortunately I have to admit that I never ever got any bluez beyond hcidump working on any of my systems (Desktop, Laptop, Moko,...), despite many hours :( Jun 12 09:52:08 I have to do some cleanups within my packages, but I can then put them online for testing. The only missing part is a UI and so you have to do it with Python, but that is really simple. Jun 12 09:52:33 I've read parts of the kernel code, but I have failed to even get it to pair. apparently you need all kinds of strange desktop things that I don't have for pin entry or so) Jun 12 09:53:04 I am also going to do a new release this week. To get the fixes from the last two days into a released version. Jun 12 09:53:14 ok, thanks a lot for all your work. Jun 12 09:53:32 LaF0rge: The pairing part is simple if you know what you are doing. The desktop nowadays has a fancy icon ;) Jun 12 09:53:55 holtmann: I hate all the desktop technologies ;) Jun 12 09:54:06 holtmann: I just want something on the commandline Jun 12 09:54:15 Hey. I am using command line only here. Jun 12 09:54:15 The Bluetooth chip init is still a hack, but at least one that works reliable now. Jun 12 09:54:18 holtmann: to me, X just serves as terminal multiplexer Jun 12 09:54:37 holtmann: init: great. Jun 12 09:54:46 Me too, but lately I had to do UI programming and I hate ;) Jun 12 09:54:58 holtmann: when I'm saying "I", I'm speaking about me personally, on my laptop/desktop systems Jun 12 09:55:10 I own three BT keyboards but have failed to get any to work with any of my linux boxes. Jun 12 09:55:12 I've been getting back into C++ Jun 12 09:55:37 You can try with the Neo1973 next week ;) Jun 12 09:56:11 The only missing part is the Bluetooth address change, but since Delta somehow delivers valid addresses, it is not worth it to worry about it for GTA01 Jun 12 09:57:11 lrg: I am trying to connect headsets to the Neo1973 and everything works fine except that the PCM part of the Bluetooth chip doesn't get any audio data from the codec. Jun 12 09:57:14 did you check those addresses are indeed allocated to delta? Jun 12 09:57:39 hmmm, one of those fold-out rubber keyboards with a BT transceiver in it could be useful Jun 12 09:57:45 Yes they are. If you have a oui.txt installed, most BlueZ will decode it for you. Jun 12 09:57:57 * ewon ebays Jun 12 09:58:16 ewon: Will work, but currently no UI. So you have to use the command line to connect it Jun 12 09:58:25 hmmm Jun 12 09:58:49 anyone knpw how do i add an ipk from qemu? Jun 12 09:59:25 LaF0rge: And I had to do an ugly hack since /var is tmpfs. That is not good. Jun 12 09:59:39 We need /var/lib to be persistent. Jun 12 10:00:04 Actually only /var/run should be volatile according to FHS. Jun 12 10:00:17 holtmann: there is a small command line app that starts the codec voice interface (iirc, it's connected to the BT PCM on the neo). XorA has posted this on his page, although I don't know if it's in svn Jun 12 10:00:41 holtmann: unfortunately XorA is on vacation until next Monday Jun 12 10:01:05 I need a link to it. Anybody? Jun 12 10:01:40 I was calling alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmbluetooth.state restore 0, but that seems not be enough. Jun 12 10:01:58 holtmann: http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/ Jun 12 10:02:15 http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/bluetooth-pcm/bluetooth_pcm.c ? Jun 12 10:02:55 mickey_fic: that's the one Jun 12 10:03:07 Lets give it a try. Jun 12 10:03:27 Is there an easy way to cross-compile it within bitbake without having a package? Jun 12 10:03:27 holtmann, mickey_fic: this just opens the voice PCM and starts PCM transfer. Jun 12 10:03:51 holtmann: afaik, not atm ;( Jun 12 10:04:39 holtmann: not really, however you could just call tmp/cross/bin/arm-linux-gcc directly Jun 12 10:04:44 holtmann: fwiw, I'm pretty sure XorA tested it as much as he could at the time Jun 12 10:04:49 mickey: needs staging for alsa-lib Jun 12 10:04:54 ya Jun 12 10:05:03 -Ltmp/staging/arm-linux/lib Jun 12 10:05:24 i can turn this into a bb recipe if needed Jun 12 10:06:13 laf0rge: If you want to see bluetooth in action... it is very simple to do on openmoko Jun 12 10:06:34 laf0rge: I have example scripts to set up bluetooth gps and bluetooth network on my blog. Jun 12 10:06:56 laf0rge: And if you have bluetooth keyboard you don't need... I'd gladly play with one ;-)). Jun 12 10:07:19 good morning Jun 12 10:08:04 coutner Jun 12 10:08:06 counter Jun 12 10:08:07 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 12:55:54 (3.539±3.5 days) (1444;227) Jun 12 10:08:08 hey florian Jun 12 10:08:31 * Stephmw gives ewon some more coffee Jun 12 10:09:25 \o/ Jun 12 10:09:53 I have a compiler on one my phones, but no libasound2-dev :( Jun 12 10:09:53 Will integrate that into the headset daemon in the end. Jun 12 10:10:21 why would you compile on the phone? Do you hate yourself? Jun 12 10:10:52 holtmann: Wow... do you have really small compiler setup... or really big microSD card that works? Jun 12 10:11:21 LaF0rge: on Debian the maintainer of the bluez-utils has kicked out command-line management of the passkeys/PINs Jun 12 10:11:55 you need to compile yourself /usr/share/doc/bluez-utils/examples/passkey-agent.c Jun 12 10:12:56 pavelm: In the flash of the v3 hardware. Jun 12 10:13:00 holtmann: OE has a '-c devshell' to setup the crosscompile env Jun 12 10:13:14 holtmann: I don't know if openmoko supports that (probably not) Jun 12 10:13:34 mickey_fic,koen: Got it compiled. Lets see if it works. Jun 12 10:14:06 * lrg has his fingers crossed Jun 12 10:14:46 Lets find a headset. Jun 12 10:14:57 I remember sayin gthat that .c file was ugly an not working a few weeks ago Jun 12 10:22:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Talk:USB_DFU]] Jun 12 10:29:43 Not working, but maybe because I flashed the new image into it. I can't even get the GSM calls working. So I should have tried with the original image that comes with v4 hardware. Jun 12 10:38:20 Which image version has the GSM phone call part working? I am going to test that image again. Must be the original one that came with v4 hardware. Jun 12 10:39:25 friday's image worked for me Jun 12 10:40:33 Bye bye, everyone, go to do some swimming. Jun 12 10:46:35 balrog-kun: With a 2.6.21 kernel? Jun 12 10:47:18 openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070608074943.rootfs.jffs2 ??? Jun 12 10:49:15 holtmann: yes, 2.6.21.3 Jun 12 10:49:42 holtmann: and yes, exactly this file Jun 12 10:50:17 2189 kernel? Jun 12 10:50:41 nope, locally built, non-modular Jun 12 10:51:40 i can put it up on www but i would first suspect thing like the SIM not making contact correctly or something, if calling isn't working Jun 12 10:51:54 openmoko: 03njp * r2217 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/src/contacts-history.c: Check if entry returns NULL for its contact-uid property, before using it in strcmp() and segfaulting Jun 12 10:52:21 holtmann: do you hear the typical GSM interference in speakers nearby when Neo boots? Jun 12 10:52:41 Never had that, but was never near a speaker. Jun 12 10:53:08 hmm ok Jun 12 10:53:33 will the SIM contact issues be fixed in GTA02? Jun 12 10:54:06 i open /dev/ttySAC0 under "cu" and issue "AT+CIMI" when i need to check that the SIM works Jun 12 10:59:42 balrog-kun - About the "other people": You're hlaf of them, cause I hope for Bv03 testers. ;) Jun 12 11:01:23 :) Jun 12 11:07:32 openmoko: 03njp * r2218 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c: Call notify_entry_added on pre-existing entries as well as those that are new Jun 12 11:08:53 balrog-kun: The friday image has a startup sound, but GSM is not working :( Jun 12 11:09:16 And it is a bad idea to flash the rootfs into the kernel partition :) Jun 12 11:12:47 *G* Jun 12 11:13:08 holtmann - As long, as you don't flash it into the u-boot or u-boot-env partition, everything is okay. :) Jun 12 11:13:36 Did already v3 boot loader into v4 hardware. So nothing more worse can happen. Jun 12 11:13:52 AT+CIMI gives me the IMEI. So system should be up. Jun 12 11:14:16 holtmann - yuck. You had to use the debug board to get the right u-boot back in there? Jun 12 11:14:34 In the end I had to give it to Harald to fix it. Jun 12 11:14:51 The GSM calls are not working. Must be the kernel :( Jun 12 11:15:05 holtmann - You have the debug board? Jun 12 11:15:09 yes. Jun 12 11:15:36 So why didn't you unbrick it yourself? Jun 12 11:16:12 I did, but somehow totally screwed up the u-boot-env partition and the OCD was not really cooperative. Jun 12 11:16:28 Hum. Jun 12 11:16:39 * Herod2k va a pranzo Jun 12 11:16:58 Herod2k - please speak english. Jun 12 11:17:33 holtmann - I had the hope, that unbricking would be straight forward. :-| Jun 12 11:18:51 Not that easy. Jun 12 11:21:04 I give up for today. Will start with brand new phone tomorrow ;0 Jun 12 11:22:59 openmoko: 03thomas * r2219 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-dialer.c dialer-window-history.c): openmoko-dialer: Remove hard coded widget sizes (bug 600) Jun 12 11:23:19 holtmann - "brand new phone"? Jun 12 11:23:42 !ombug 600 Jun 12 11:23:43 * * Bug 600, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Jun 12 11:23:44 * * philipp.zabel(AT)gmail.com: openmoko-dialer hardcodes widget sizes Jun 12 11:23:45 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=600 Jun 12 11:24:56 moin Jun 12 11:26:24 what's that LiPS stuff about? Jun 12 11:33:06 openmoko: 03njp * r2220 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c: Make sure entry variable is set to NULL for each iteration, to stop overwriting other entries Jun 12 11:42:46 openmoko: 03thomas * r2221 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-footer/src/Makefile.am: openmoko-footer: fix distcheck Jun 12 12:24:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Content]] [[Talk:Auto-complete]] [[Sample_Native-Finger_Application]] [[Sketchbook]] [[Translation]] [[Talk:Message_Preview]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Press_Coverage]] Jun 12 12:57:52 openmoko: 03njp * r2222 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-history.c: Update counter when a new entry is added Jun 12 12:59:13 openmoko: 03njp * r2223 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-time.c: Swap icaltime_today () for icaltime_from_timet_with_zone (), as the former does not keep the actual 'time', just the date. Jun 12 13:09:51 openmoko: 03njp * r2224 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-history.c: Changed history label from 'History-' to 'Call History - ', bug #435 Jun 12 13:17:19 Hi guys Jun 12 13:18:05 counter Jun 12 13:18:07 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 11:20:55 (3.473±3.5 days) (1445;227) Jun 12 13:18:39 3 days everyday :) Jun 12 13:19:32 Information is scarce, but we never run out of hope.. ;) Jun 12 13:29:22 combined hope is 75%, but it lasts until 2007-07-07 Jun 12 13:53:10 Do we have a wiki page for the GTA02? Jun 12 14:06:06 Elrond: no, except what is at [[Neo19739] Jun 12 14:19:16 i think i'm going to wait until the gta02 Jun 12 14:21:21 heh there should be a "free phone club" just like there are record clubs etc.. you get a new phone model every 6 months and you pay some nice fee and if you don't like it you can send it back :D Jun 12 14:22:18 where's the "free" part in this? Jun 12 14:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Talk:Popup_Menu]] [[Talk:Search]] [[Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board]] [[Clock]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[Wish_List]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] [[Terminal]] [[Talk:Unit_Converter]] and other changes Jun 12 14:25:38 free as in crack? Jun 12 14:29:25 LetoTo: where? :P Jun 12 14:29:49 counter Jun 12 14:29:49 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 10:45:03 (3.448±3.4 days) (1446;227) Jun 12 14:49:25 starting any week now, is that *soon*? Jun 12 14:49:38 * duffyd can't wait Jun 12 14:49:57 Any week also includes the first week of December 2084 Jun 12 14:50:05 lol Jun 12 14:50:07 hahaha Jun 12 14:50:21 In astronomical time, it's soon. Jun 12 14:50:41 in geological time, a mere heartbeat. Jun 12 14:50:51 * ewon wants to be immortal Jun 12 14:51:04 I wonder if anyone knows *which factory* in China - could probably go there and get one ;-) Jun 12 14:51:19 There are reputedly 200 made. Jun 12 14:51:24 In the first batch. Jun 12 14:51:27 that involves going to freaking China Jun 12 14:51:31 Whihc are undergoing QA Jun 12 14:52:00 which means an angry politburo member shouting at them until they break and renounce capitalism Jun 12 14:52:00 ahhh Jun 12 14:52:05 Matbe the QA isn't going that well... Jun 12 14:52:06 lol Jun 12 14:52:13 doh, hope not Jun 12 14:52:36 this is like 'geek gossip' - or waiting for paint to dry or grass to grow :-( Jun 12 14:52:43 easier to just wait for the inevitable chinese knockoff Jun 12 14:52:59 lot of these chinese factories do the customer's run during the day, and their own run at night :) Jun 12 14:53:15 lol Jun 12 14:53:19 * SpeedEvil notes he's mowed the grass ~10 times since the first 'gonna be soon' announce. Jun 12 14:53:29 well if it is anything like Taiwan I would believe it :-) Jun 12 14:53:30 And done some painting. Jun 12 14:53:33 * ewon notes he has never mowed the grass Jun 12 14:53:46 * ewon points at the sheep that mow the grass for him Jun 12 14:54:04 They're good at that, true. Jun 12 14:54:24 stupidest fucking creatures alive, but they have their uses Jun 12 14:54:35 Nope. Jun 12 14:54:39 SpeedEvil: the space between your new wall and the concrete--are you going to blow insulation into that space? Jun 12 14:54:39 Chickens. Jun 12 14:54:47 DukeOfURL: no. Jun 12 14:55:00 DukeOfURL: 8-10cm glassfibre Jun 12 14:55:13 gets pushed over the emplaced pegs after slits have been cut in it. Jun 12 14:55:14 R38 Jun 12 14:55:18 SpeedEvil: a chicken won't get caught on some barbed wire and stand there and wait to die. Jun 12 14:55:58 Turn a chicken upside down, and it'll sit there for 10-20 mins. Jun 12 14:56:07 SpeedEvil: should be nice and cozy Jun 12 14:56:37 DukeOfURL: Hopefully. Jun 12 14:56:39 SpeedEvil: really? nice Jun 12 14:57:01 ewon: it's some sort of anti-predator thing. 'stop moving, and maybe it won't eat me'. Jun 12 14:57:08 hah Jun 12 14:57:39 Sheep OTOH tend to get rather upset when you do that. Jun 12 14:58:00 I've been bitten by more than one sheep in my time Jun 12 14:58:10 btw is there anyone from the southern hemisphere here? Jun 12 14:58:55 ewon: A lot of it is breeding. Jun 12 15:00:22 Your average 'wild' sheep is _way_ different from the ones that have had a thousand years or more of breeding to be placid and easy to handle. Jun 12 15:00:31 openmoko: 03thomas * r2225 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): * openmoko-dialer: remove hardcoded font sizes from dialer buttons (bug 600) Jun 12 15:01:04 SpeedEvil: good point, don't think I'd want to try and dose a wild sheep :) Jun 12 15:01:20 Indeed. Farm/smallholding/...? Jun 12 15:02:30 <-- once upon a time was an agircultural science student Jun 12 15:02:50 * SpeedEvil once had parents with a smallholding. Jun 12 15:03:06 these days, my dad owns a school, which has a small farm on it for said Ag Science students Jun 12 15:03:12 s/owns/runs/ Jun 12 15:03:12 ewon meant: these days, my dad runs a school, which has a small farm on it for said Ag Science students Jun 12 15:09:43 hi LaF0rge - you're in Taiwan! I'm Tim Knapp the guy from the tossug meetup (the Plone guy) Jun 12 15:16:01 oh noes! mickey's been branded! :) Jun 12 15:16:34 hehe Jun 12 15:16:36 hi stefan_schmidt Jun 12 15:16:38 oops Jun 12 15:16:41 hi Stephmw as well Jun 12 15:16:48 mickey_fic: appears you're in Taiwan too :-) Jun 12 15:16:54 mickey_fic: I'm in Taichung Jun 12 15:17:08 ah fun, what are you doing here? Jun 12 15:17:29 just learning Chinese. I'm a Plone developer by trade (http://kokorice.org) Jun 12 15:17:43 SpeedEvil is our major wiki-spam buster. :-) Jun 12 15:17:54 thought while I was here I could grab myself a Neo :-) Jun 12 15:18:22 how do i install ipks from qemu, will adding the ipks to the rootf tarball and then using the application installer to install it, work Jun 12 15:18:55 hehe Jun 12 15:18:56 *rootfs Jun 12 15:19:37 Sup3rkiddo - "ipkg install foo.ipk" inside the running system. I usually scp them into the machine. Jun 12 15:19:57 Sup3rkiddo - Of course wget'ing from the machine also works. Jun 12 15:21:17 Elrond, thanks for the hint....how do i scp...i guess the qemu system is a self contained one without access to outside world..am i right? Jun 12 15:22:39 And if you bitbake package-index you can copy the files onto a webserver and use ipkg feeds Jun 12 15:25:47 whoa...thats a bit too much imho.....any idea how i can install stuff during the make openmoko-devel-image? Jun 12 15:34:43 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2226 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c): Jun 12 15:34:43 openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c: (init_left_hand_side): Check if icon is Jun 12 15:34:43 openmoko: NULL befor unref'ing (prevents segfaulting on older gtk versions) Jun 12 15:37:18 openmoko: 03thomas * r2227 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (configure.ac data/Makefile.am src/Makefile.am src/alsa.h): * openmoko-dialer: Apply patch from bug 532 (make distcheck and autotools-related improvements) Jun 12 15:40:58 Sup3rkiddo: try adding a package to a task that gets included in openmoko-devel-image.bb Jun 12 15:41:21 But I'm not entirely sure how to do that Jun 12 15:41:34 alphaone, i had already added to the sdk thing in that file... Jun 12 15:41:43 edit task-openmoko.bb Jun 12 15:41:52 add something to either subtask Jun 12 15:42:05 ah..so i was editing the wrong file then Jun 12 15:42:52 done added it to RDEPENDS_task-openmoko-native-sdk Jun 12 16:06:18 openmoko: 03thomas * r2228 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c libmokoui/moko-stock.h): Jun 12 16:06:18 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: Jun 12 16:06:18 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.h: Jun 12 16:06:18 openmoko: Add Dial and History stock items for openmoko-dialer Jun 12 16:13:17 bye Jun 12 16:16:42 hi Jun 12 16:18:40 openmoko: 03laforge * r2229 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2440.patch: use correct PLL dividers for 12MHz (hxd8 has 16.9344, gta02 12 DUH!) Jun 12 16:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[Community_Events]] [[Talk:Style_Sheet]] [[Dfu-util/bg]] [[Wish_List]] Jun 12 16:33:50 oh dang...adding my app name to task-openmoko.bb doesnt work...ie, my app not getting installed in the final build Jun 12 16:33:59 * Sup3rkiddo feels like an idiot Jun 12 16:35:46 Sup3rkiddo: moment Jun 12 16:36:33 Sup3rkiddo: Step-by-Step. You have a bb file with builds your app Jun 12 16:36:44 stefan_schmidt, yup..check Jun 12 16:36:48 Sup3rkiddo: bitbake your-app works? Jun 12 16:37:00 stefan_schmidt, yup..ipks are generated properly Jun 12 16:37:08 Sup3rkiddo: ok, fine Jun 12 16:37:50 Sup3rkiddo: And where do you have added it for task-openmoko? Jun 12 16:38:15 stefan_schmidt, i first added it in the sdk, part...now added it to debug.... Jun 12 16:38:54 that is task-openmoko-debug Jun 12 16:39:02 Sup3rkiddo: Why that categories? I would suggest bas or core for the first try. Jun 12 16:39:07 don't forget to bump PR Jun 12 16:39:16 stefan_schmidt, right Jun 12 16:39:20 mickey_fic, i have to? Jun 12 16:39:24 ya Jun 12 16:39:26 mickey_fic: That would be the next step :) Jun 12 16:39:32 sorry :) Jun 12 16:39:37 * mickey_fic spoiler Jun 12 16:39:39 i missed the bumping part Jun 12 16:39:47 mickey_fic: np, help from the wizard is always good Jun 12 16:40:03 thanks guys...will pester you again if it doesnt work :P Jun 12 16:40:11 heh Jun 12 16:48:03 openmoko: 03thomas * r2230 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Jun 12 16:48:03 openmoko: * icons: add call history and dial icons Jun 12 16:48:03 openmoko: * icons: rename go-back and go-forward files Jun 12 16:49:29 openmoko: 03thomas * r2231 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-dialer.c: openmoko-dialer: use stock icons in delete/history/dial buttons Jun 12 16:54:32 anyboyd has an idea how log does it take to boot neo1973 Jun 12 16:54:48 i could spread some fud :> Jun 12 16:55:30 openmoko: 03thomas * r2232 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/ (configure.ac openmoko-standard/36x36/stock/Makefile.am): icons: fix build and distcheck Jun 12 16:57:13 joseph - Ask me in about 4 hours, then I can take a stop watch and tell you. Jun 12 16:57:46 come on it aint that bad Jun 12 17:03:45 openmoko: 03thomas * r2233 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c libmokoui/moko-stock.h): Jun 12 17:03:45 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: Jun 12 17:03:45 openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.h: Jun 12 17:03:45 openmoko: Add call missed/recieved/dialed stock items Jun 12 17:07:33 counter Jun 12 17:07:34 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 09:26:11 (3.393±3.4 days) (1447;227) Jun 12 17:11:08 SpeedEvil - What trickery do you use to catch all the spam? Jun 12 17:11:52 A script that barks, and auto-loads the page into FF. Jun 12 17:12:07 I should write something better. Jun 12 17:13:13 So you reload the recentchanges every few minutes using that script? Jun 12 17:14:09 30s - looking at only the deltas since last time. Jun 12 17:14:23 Ahh. Jun 12 17:15:33 I tried the rss feed a month ago, but it's horribly outdated. Jun 12 17:33:00 Is there any introductory documentation for developing applications for openmoko? I'm looking for a "how to write your first openmoko app" howto... Jun 12 17:34:49 xuxa, i found this helpful http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ Jun 12 17:35:18 thank you Sup3rkiddo ! Jun 12 17:35:36 xuxa, np :D Jun 12 17:44:14 heh, i was about to ask the same question, so thx Sup3rkiddo =) Jun 12 17:51:57 * * OM Bug 603 has been created by werner@openmoko.org Jun 12 17:51:58 * * timeout at boot menu while typing ? Jun 12 17:51:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=603 Jun 12 17:52:06 btw, i've been living under a rock for a while - what's the state of wlan-stuff? Jun 12 18:03:18 openmoko: 03werner * r2234 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-menu.patch: (log message trimmed) Jun 12 18:03:18 openmoko: board/neo1973/common/bootmenu.c, common/Makefile: moved platform-independent Jun 12 18:03:18 openmoko: code to common/bootmenu.c (only compiled if CFG_BOOTMENU is set) Jun 12 18:03:18 openmoko: include/bootmenu.h: boot menu constants and prototypes Jun 12 18:03:18 openmoko: common/bootmenu.c: removed special-casing of first and last menu entry Jun 12 18:03:22 openmoko: board/neo1973/common/bootmenu.c, board/neo1973/gta01/gta01.c (board_late_init), Jun 12 18:03:24 openmoko: board/neo1973/common/neo1973.h: renamed "bootmenu" to neo1973_bootmenu Jun 12 18:11:37 stefan_schmidt, ping Jun 12 18:12:41 Sup3rkiddo: pong Jun 12 18:13:23 stefan_schmidt, didnt work..i added the app name in task-openmoko-core...and bumped the PR as well.. Jun 12 18:14:16 but in the process set my PR to 4444 accidentally!...now i cant bring it down..can i? Jun 12 18:14:57 Sup3rkiddo: I don't know it off-hand if you can downgrade it. Jun 12 18:15:21 you can, but now with current openmoko Jun 12 18:15:39 Sup3rkiddo: Besides adding it to core and bumping RP I have not much ideas left. Do you read the bitbake manual Jun 12 18:15:53 ? Jun 12 18:16:30 stefan_schmidt, just gave a glance enough to write my own correct one..you reckon its my recipe? Jun 12 18:17:02 Sup3rkiddo: If the recipe builds fine that should not be a problem Jun 12 18:17:12 can i take it, that bumping PR forces a recompile of uboot Jun 12 18:17:25 Sup3rkiddo: Can you upload the recipe somewhere? Jun 12 18:17:27 stefan_schmidt, yeah it does..like i said, ipk is there in arm4t Jun 12 18:17:54 stefan_schmidt, sure...i have even filed a bug report..http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=602 Jun 12 18:18:08 Sup3rkiddo: If you upload a diff to svn I test it later tonight Jun 12 18:18:21 stefan_schmidt, diff of? Jun 12 18:19:04 Sup3rkiddo: Diff of the stuff you added to our svn. Jun 12 18:19:52 koen: That's why mickeyl works on a new sync Jun 12 18:20:07 stefan_schmidt, ok...but its too negligible...just an extra bb, and a line in task-openmoko.bb Jun 12 18:20:23 counter Jun 12 18:20:23 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 08:49:46 (3.368±3.4 days) (1448;227) Jun 12 18:20:59 stefan_schmidt: I'll be glad to assist, but I need to be asked Jun 12 18:21:10 Sup3rkiddo: OK, the recipe in the bug is the current one? Jun 12 18:21:22 stefan_schmidt: roh didn't start spreading FUD this time about merging? Jun 12 18:21:35 stefan_schmidt, wait..i guess it want uploaded properly... Jun 12 18:21:43 stefan_schmidt, will pastebin it? Jun 12 18:21:50 koen: yeah, no idea how he handles that. Sorry. Jun 12 18:22:05 Sup3rkiddo: pastebin is fine Jun 12 18:22:45 Sup3rkiddo: But for using it I would need the source of the extension as well as the recipes point to a folder on your disk. :) Jun 12 18:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Content]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Talk:Picture_Viewer]] [[Application_Menu]] [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Talk:Templates]] Jun 12 18:23:24 stefan_schmidt, the location is there on the bb?...promise me not to laugh at the source :| Jun 12 18:23:33 s/bb?/bb Jun 12 18:23:50 Sup3rkiddo: I promise. No problem as I never coded python . ;) Jun 12 18:24:18 stefan_schmidt, pm me your email..i will send it asap Jun 12 18:24:34 Sup3rkiddo: stefan@openmoko.org Jun 12 18:25:40 koen: Personally I hope we come back closer to OE, but I also can understand mickey about having to much unknown variables. Perhaps a branch is really the way to go. Jun 12 18:26:33 stefan_schmidt: I'd buy into the 'too many variables' if openmoko svn was actually working most of the time Jun 12 18:26:53 koen: But in the end it is mickey who has to decide. Jun 12 18:27:07 stefan_schmidt: after locking down the OE revision the overlay was having serious bugs most of the time that took _weeks_ to get fixed Jun 12 18:27:15 koen: Yeah, and know add problems with other progs and libs. :) Jun 12 18:27:36 you'll have to thank rwhitby on your bare knees for working around those in the makefile Jun 12 18:29:49 koen: I know we have tons of problems. And even some bigger ones then you notice during OE builds. Jun 12 18:29:52 stefan_schmidt, its not a pure python code..but a mock extension module wrapping a function from libgsmd...its written in C, so you might LYAO Jun 12 18:29:55 :P Jun 12 18:30:23 Sup3rkiddo: No need to worry. Jun 12 18:30:41 stefan_schmidt, you got mail Jun 12 18:31:28 Sup3rkiddo: OK, I need to finish some other stuff before and take a look later Jun 12 18:32:03 stefan_schmidt, sure...take your time..its way past midnight here...so would be swell if you could mail me instead Jun 12 18:32:41 Sup3rkiddo: That or I ping you tomorrow on IRC Jun 12 18:32:52 stefan_schmidt: lots of OE developers want to help out, but not if openmoko employees (like roh) keep saying OE is shit and insulting them Jun 12 18:32:57 stefan_schmidt, sounds fair...thanks for your time Jun 12 18:33:07 emphasis on employees Jun 12 18:35:38 koen: I agree. Insulting people is never a solution. Even roh has to learn that we has chosen OE and will stay with it. Jun 12 18:36:26 the bit where he accused OE developers of sabotaging the fixed revision was hilarious Jun 12 18:36:26 Criticism needs to be based on facts and better proposals not ranting Jun 12 18:37:48 Seems I have missed that. Jun 12 18:39:41 night all.. Jun 12 18:40:54 koen: I really understand that you and the other OE devs are frustrated about the current situation. But in the end mickeyl is still one of your team and he tries to give it back to OE. Jun 12 18:41:14 koen: Even if it looks not that promising right now. :( Jun 12 18:44:02 koen: But another point, how well is the small AVR32 board supported by OE now? I should get mine the next days. :) Jun 12 18:49:24 stefan_schmidt: not well Jun 12 18:49:55 koen: Still on gcc/kernel/etc I guess Jun 12 18:50:36 pretty much Jun 12 18:51:19 koen: I will not have time for it in the next weeks anyway. :) Jun 12 18:51:58 with some workaround you can compile apps, but support should improve in a week or 3 Jun 12 18:52:38 So I start playing with it once the support is better. Jun 12 18:52:58 counter Jun 12 18:52:58 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 08:33:29 (3.357±3.4 days) (1449;227) Jun 12 18:57:05 hey guys Jun 12 18:57:21 openmoko seems to have found it's way onto moto a780's Jun 12 18:57:29 (it's on mine now) Jun 12 19:01:01 ColdFyre: Wait, you say you got the Moto A780 to run OpenMoko? Jun 12 19:01:06 * nox-Hand looks up that phone Jun 12 19:01:22 yes Jun 12 19:01:36 can you do a photo or a picture? Jun 12 19:01:51 when i get home Jun 12 19:02:22 later tonight^ Jun 12 19:02:25 ColdFyre: How well does it run? :) Jun 12 19:02:41 not bad at all Jun 12 19:02:52 ColdFyre: Can't be much more then booting into userspace as the QVGA theme is broken and dialing will not work as EZX uses TS07.10 Jun 12 19:03:13 it is not alot of work Jun 12 19:03:25 copy rootfs to a tf card Jun 12 19:03:28 ColdFyre: But do you think you cna use it for anything though? Jun 12 19:03:34 http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8338.JPG.html Jun 12 19:03:35 use a kernel image on my desktop Jun 12 19:03:38 ColdFyre: Calls, sms all that, doesn't work, does it? Jun 12 19:03:46 sms does Jun 12 19:03:50 sound no Jun 12 19:04:01 stefan_schmidt: What phone is that? Jun 12 19:04:12 http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8341.JPG.html Jun 12 19:04:23 nox-Hand: E680 another EZX phone Jun 12 19:04:29 i'm gonna mess with it alot more in the next few days Jun 12 19:04:36 stefan_schmidt: Right Jun 12 19:04:38 ColdFyre: Enjoy Jun 12 19:04:39 e680 is pretty must the a780 Jun 12 19:04:43 much Jun 12 19:04:50 * nox-Hand _must_ get an OpenMoko phone :) Jun 12 19:04:55 ColdFyre: I know Jun 12 19:05:06 when the neo comes out i'm getting that though :) Jun 12 19:05:12 * stefan_schmidt looks to two a780 and one E2 next to him :) Jun 12 19:05:46 people think they are so hot with those ugly blackberries Jun 12 19:05:53 ColdFyre: If you are interested in EZX 2.6 kernel hacking join #openezx Jun 12 19:11:09 So.. does anyone know how to get ahold of the OpenMoko Team? Jun 12 19:12:10 * stefan_schmidt whispers that some of them hanging out here Jun 12 19:13:25 stefan_schmidt: I thought they might, yet I am wondering how to pinpoint one ;) Jun 12 19:13:59 nox-Hand: The question is why you want to pinpoint one. What's your question? Jun 12 19:18:33 *rofl Jun 12 19:18:34 * Jun 12 19:19:06 stefan_schmidt: Basically, I am wondering whether they have any need of a person 100% fluent in Danish and English (and here I mean 100% with high grades in both) to do translation. Not just translation of the actual OpenMoko platform, but also whatever press releases might be channeled to Denmark or even suppliers (I would mainly think publicity though) and also help making the manual in Danish if that was needed - good documentation is always Jun 12 19:19:52 you got cut-off at "always" Jun 12 19:20:22 i hate it when the text cuts off Jun 12 19:20:32 balrog-kun: Odd, what program you in? After always goes ".. is always excellent and popular." Jun 12 19:21:20 nox-Hand: i use irssi but i thought it's the network Jun 12 19:21:36 nah, it cuts after 'always' here too Jun 12 19:21:44 balrog-kun: Then it has to be this channels settings, other channels do not regularly do that. Jun 12 19:21:49 yes, the network Jun 12 19:22:00 or the channel :D Jun 12 19:22:04 balrog-kun: Freenode does not do cutoffs. Jun 12 19:22:07 That's a setting :) Jun 12 19:22:24 Anyway - never mind =D Jun 12 19:22:32 at least one other channel i know, does, i dnnno in general Jun 12 19:22:38 nox-Hand: Hmm, for now we don't have much need for translations. But that will change at some point of time. Jun 12 19:23:18 nox-Hand: The best would be to mail coreteam@openmoko.org which puts you in a trequest tracker Jun 12 19:23:28 s/trequest/request/ Jun 12 19:23:28 stefan_schmidt meant: nox-Hand: The best would be to mail coreteam@openmoko.org which puts you in a request tracker Jun 12 19:23:50 Thanks apt ;) Jun 12 19:24:07 stefan_schmidt: Excellent, I will do that. I am up for doing whatever I can to help this project along :) Jun 12 19:24:58 CoreDump|home: Welcome home :) Jun 12 19:25:07 nox-Hand: But I fear you have to be patient as translation has a low priority right now. Of course this does not mean that you can't organize with others for that Jun 12 19:25:21 nox-Hand: heh, thx Jun 12 19:25:43 nox-Hand: IIRC some people already organized something in the wiki Jun 12 19:26:49 theoretically perfect grades in two languages don't always make a perfect translator (but definitely do help) Jun 12 19:27:14 stefan_schmidt: Indeed, yet they are all Danish people, so they _might_ not have as high linguistic skills as someone who is 100% halfbreed (Father English, Mother Danish, I speak/read/write fluently in both languages) Jun 12 19:27:23 And this is _not_ meant as a toe-treader Jun 12 19:27:38 there's part of the knowledge about the process of translation itself, abstract from languages Jun 12 19:27:41 More as in, if they need someone they can feel will definately get it right, I am here to help. Jun 12 19:29:05 * stefan_schmidt needs really do some work now. cu later Jun 12 19:29:12 stefan_schmidt: Anyway, I am also offering services for just about any task that is need of - except the fact that I can not code, so that area I shall steer clear of for now. Graphics and anything with language etc, I am offering help. Jun 12 19:29:28 stefan_schmidt: You do that, seems a sensible use of time :) Thankyou for your time! Jun 12 20:13:19 counter Jun 12 20:13:20 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 07:53:18 (3.329±3.3 days) (1450;227) Jun 12 20:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Supported_microSD_cards]] [[Talk:Finger_Toolbar]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[User_talk:Vw7Oud]] [[Media_Player]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] Jun 12 21:00:27 FIC is pissing me off Jun 12 21:00:50 and why is that? Jun 12 21:01:05 January. No, March. April. No, May. End of May. No, sometime, but we won't tell you. blah. Jun 12 21:01:34 ...don't like it either... Jun 12 21:01:54 they've lost all credibility with me Jun 12 21:02:01 pjz: then why are you still here? Jun 12 21:02:13 b/c I haven't logged out of here in weeks Jun 12 21:02:22 and b/c I don't WANT them to suck so badly Jun 12 21:02:53 maybe better said: I want them to NOT suck so badly Jun 12 21:03:16 I keep hoping I'm going to glance at this window and see some solid news or something Jun 12 21:07:19 pjz - Any other company just would have a) shipped crap hardware b) not told the public about possible new hardware. Jun 12 21:09:14 On my FIC wishlist is "_short_ status update once every week, say mondays". Annd if it's only "500 phones were created, we don't know where they are, and we don't know, if they're any good." or "Nothing new since last week, we still try to find those phones" ;o)) Jun 12 21:09:17 pjz: I don't know about you, but I have seen P0 hardware twice now. It eixsts and you can have fun with it. For a small definition of "fun" :). But still, there is progress. Jun 12 21:09:28 pjz: I remind you that if this were any other company, you wouldn't even have heard *anything*. FIC only has about 5000, most of whom are doing other htings. Jun 12 21:09:32 things, I mean. Jun 12 21:10:30 I second Elrond - short updates would be lovely. But I see progress and (as a non-developer) I just wait and get surprised by interesting news. Jun 12 21:10:52 pjz: Also, FIC is operating across several countries with various different laws regarding disclosure. If they make promises about products that they have to withdraw, they could be vulnerable to litigation in more than one country. Jun 12 21:11:15 they already made promises they had to withdraw Jun 12 21:11:27 like the original ship date in january Jun 12 21:11:29 pjz: Timetables are one matter. Specs are another. Jun 12 21:11:42 I could care less about P1.5+ specs Jun 12 21:11:49 I just want them to ship P1 hardware Jun 12 21:12:09 pjz - I have a P0 just next to me (despite I'm currently doing $paid_other_work). And I can tell you two things: 1) You would not want to have bought this hardware. 2) If you have some good reasons, you can get lended a P0 from a nice kind soul. :) Jun 12 21:12:48 pjz: Hardware dev sucks. That's just how it usually goes. Jun 12 21:12:52 don't misunderstand me - I understand that hardware is, well, hard. It takes time to get right. Jun 12 21:13:13 I've been involved in hardware dev projects, more than once. Jun 12 21:13:16 BUT Jun 12 21:13:44 Yep -- and unlike software, they often can't relly say what's going on. I'm sure it will be a very interesting story. Jun 12 21:13:53 5 mins/wk to tell the community that you've pledged to be involved with what's up is not unreasonable. Jun 12 21:13:55 * balrog-kun agrees with pjz that the P1 hardware dev phase was supposed to be finished by now and it's no good Jun 12 21:14:18 what could they not talk about? Jun 12 21:14:25 presumably they haven't signed NDAs Jun 12 21:14:27 what i gathered from the core team was that it's pretty hard to do business with the chinese Jun 12 21:14:32 and that has been a major issue Jun 12 21:14:42 right from the beginning Jun 12 21:14:42 well, so they should do business elsewhere Jun 12 21:14:44 china mainland now Jun 12 21:15:09 * balrog-kun hasn't seen anything that would suggest what guaqua gathered Jun 12 21:15:14 pjz: name another vendor who is willing to put the time and effort to get things donr in gpl etc Jun 12 21:15:58 balrog-kun: i recall harald said something in that fashion...or at least something about the guys at the mainland factory promised something and nothing was actually done Jun 12 21:16:17 You do business where you must. That's just how it is. Jun 12 21:16:37 This is why I'm in academia. ^_^ Jun 12 21:16:46 sparq: ^___^ Jun 12 21:16:49 the NDA's that they have iirc are only the ones with Global Locate and Texas Instruments, (and maybe now with some wifi vendor, dunno) Jun 12 21:17:23 balrog-kun - remove the wifi vendor. I think, the ar6k thing was very gpl-friendly. Jun 12 21:17:50 Elrond: i see Jun 12 21:17:51 sparq: yeah, in academia just just kowtow where you must :P Jun 12 21:18:31 sparq - Well, if tey didn't want to say "We have problems with chinese", they could have said "There are some logistics issues with our mainland china factory, we're sorting them out currently" as a short weekly notice. Nothing wrong there. Jun 12 21:18:32 balrog-kun: And now the video accelerometer chip Jun 12 21:18:50 pjz: Until you get tenure. Then you get to wear your underwear on your head and rub yourself down with Cheeze-wiz, as long as you don't sleep with the undergraduates. Jun 12 21:19:11 guaqua: re: other vendors: just because everyone else is worse doesn't make them perfect Jun 12 21:19:28 pjz: and that relates to the issue how? Jun 12 21:19:39 pjz: did i somewhere imply they are perfect? Jun 12 21:20:01 Ahh, SpeedEvil is right. this smedia thing looks somewhat nda'd. But afterwards we'll have a gpl driver, which kick's part of the nda. ;) Jun 12 21:20:42 Elrond: what i'm guessing is that there isn't much they can do about the issues and that the timetable was out of their hands Jun 12 21:20:46 guaqua: no, but your appeal 'name another vendor who...' seemed to imply that because they're better than other vendors they're above criticism Jun 12 21:21:29 guaqua - Yeah. I have absolutely no problem with that. Heck, my $paidwork is off by months. Jun 12 21:21:38 pjz: what i meant by that was that there haven't been any other vendors doing phones with gpl so strongly present Jun 12 21:22:06 guaqua - Let me make this clear: The weekly-update is a wishlist thingy. It would be nice, if it existed, but it's fine without. Jun 12 21:22:09 A GPL'd driver - which may not fully exploit the hardware Jun 12 21:22:15 pjz: and i agree that there are many things they should have done differently Jun 12 21:22:35 SpeedEvil - yeah, possibly. ;-) Jun 12 21:22:36 Elrond: i'm wishing it too :) Jun 12 21:22:51 Anyway, all we can do is hope FIC works things out, and that their next prodcut comes together more smoothly. If FIC doesn't get it right, someone else will, eventually. Jun 12 21:23:11 I'm just annoyed that they got my hopes up SIX MONTHS AGO Jun 12 21:24:05 the other thing is that a ton of people are jumping on the linux phone bandwagon Jun 12 21:24:11 so FIC's lead may evaporate Jun 12 21:24:14 which is sad Jun 12 21:24:26 pjz - six months ago was P0 plan. Unless you were on the P0 list, you had no reason for hope at _that_ time. Jun 12 21:24:48 Elrond: 6 months ago was the original P1 plan. Jun 12 21:24:50 pjz: i only see that as a good thing...it's about the software anyway Jun 12 21:25:12 Huh, really? Jun 12 21:25:20 guaqua: sure, but there goes my ability to laugh at all my friends by having an open source phone when no one else does :) Jun 12 21:25:32 initially P1 plan was march? Jun 12 21:25:43 pjz: true that :) Jun 12 21:25:51 or was it december? Jun 12 21:26:18 err february i mean Jun 12 21:27:12 Elrond: yup. http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html says 'general availability in January' Jun 12 21:27:30 I take GA to mean P1 Jun 12 21:27:49 january then Jun 12 21:27:55 yup Jun 12 21:28:02 so: 6 months overdue Jun 12 21:28:13 well, 5 if you're being generous Jun 12 21:28:26 pjz: are you subscribed to the Announce mailing list? Jun 12 21:28:43 sparq: I've been subscribed since, uh, Novermber? december maybe. Jun 12 21:29:36 i was originally going to save some xmas $$$ to get it Jun 12 21:29:49 ...xmas in july I guess... Jun 12 21:30:08 plus it's going to be really sad if the iPhone beats the Neo out the door Jun 12 21:30:10 i'm thinking P2 might be for next christmas :) Jun 12 21:31:04 only if by 'next' you mean 2009 Jun 12 21:31:04 pjz: I'm just saying, have a heart. The Neo team is very small, and they've got a lot on the line. Jun 12 21:32:08 sparq: and, according to you, when should I give up? when am I allowed to feel decieved? I've talked up the Neo to a couple friends who now think I'm an idiot. Jun 12 21:32:35 though, you know, I needed more proof to justify my cynicism, so there's that. Jun 12 21:32:47 pjz: Until the hardware hits the stores, it's better to think of the Neo as a bunch of people. If you want to dump on it, you're dumping on people, not a product. Jun 12 21:32:54 if your friends think you are an idiot, you need better friends :) Jun 12 21:35:08 FIC never promised to make you look or sound cool. ^_^ Jun 12 21:35:18 **G Jun 12 21:35:29 That wasn't in the spec. ^_^ Jun 12 21:35:35 sure, they just promised to deliver hardware. Jun 12 21:35:46 what i get for taking them at their word. Jun 12 21:36:08 oh well, maybe the openezx guys will come through and finish reverse engineering the moto phones Jun 12 21:36:28 then I can have a fully open stack on them. Jun 12 21:40:27 Until it hits the store, you should consider this all "prototype stuff". Jun 12 21:40:40 *nod* Jun 12 21:42:20 I don't mind that... except that they told me it would "hit the store" in January... and it's 5 months later and it still hasn't Jun 12 21:42:36 and there's no good up to date explanation of what's going on Jun 12 21:42:41 or even revised estimates Jun 12 21:42:43 or anything Jun 12 21:42:49 No, january was "hit the developers via direct marketing". Jun 12 21:43:02 Elrond: january was 'general availability' Jun 12 21:43:17 Elrond: orderable direct from the FIC website, supposedly. Jun 12 21:43:19 "general availability" for developers, I presume. Jun 12 21:43:35 december was the developer release in that text :) Jun 12 21:43:45 Elrond: dude, did you read the link I just put up here? Jun 12 21:43:48 Xmas :) pity it didn't work out Jun 12 21:44:19 december sounds so unreal, heh Jun 12 21:44:20 pjz - No, please excuse. Jun 12 21:44:46 pjz - My browser is occupied with $work. ;-) Jun 12 21:44:54 Elrond: it really said 'general availability' in January. Jun 12 21:45:06 Elrond: with developer-only release in December Jun 12 21:45:28 Heh. The story of the Neo1973: The public wants to get more involved in the hardware development process. FIC lets people get involved. People find out that the development process is difficult, confusing, frustrating, and fraught with delays and not enough information. FIC says, "Welcome to the electronics industry. Now you know why most electronics doesn't really do what you want." Jun 12 21:45:51 :) Jun 12 21:46:28 I think we just got what we asked for, but that we didn't really know what it would entail. ^_^ Jun 12 21:46:48 I think we got fed a line of good intentions Jun 12 21:47:13 * sparq shrugs Jun 12 21:47:47 Well, in the mean time, it costs nothing to check out the code from the repository and run it on QEMU. There are still bugs aplenty. Jun 12 21:47:53 guess I can take it as a lesson: place not thy faith in marketing Jun 12 21:48:01 sparq: I've been doing that for months now Jun 12 21:48:43 * sparq raises a glass Jun 12 21:48:50 if you don't believe in the people involved in this project also trying to do the good thing (tm), you sound like quite a cynic Jun 12 21:50:21 I like the idea. But is it dead? Can the open source mobile phone really just be a myth? Jun 12 21:50:44 Hi hrw! :-) Jun 12 21:51:02 Judas_: we all decide about that Jun 12 21:51:10 are we going to let it be a myth? Jun 12 21:51:25 Meaning? ... Jun 12 21:51:48 hi Jun 12 21:52:01 that it's up to the people to actually develop the software and buy the phones Jun 12 21:52:29 Count me in on that last thing Jun 12 21:52:32 if you decide it's a myth, you are probably not one of those people developing and buying :) Jun 12 21:53:22 I might come off as more negative than I am. Was just wondering why the official site doesn't show much info. Will buy this device at once when I am able to (the end-customer version). SSH into your phone? Count me in :D Jun 12 21:53:53 :) Jun 12 21:53:59 guaqua: it's not up to the people to write the software - it's up to FIC to ship the hardware. Jun 12 21:54:13 pjz: that's true aswell Jun 12 21:54:13 guaqua: otherwise the people have no motivation to write the software. Jun 12 21:55:04 guaqua: and sure, I believe they're _trying_ to do a good thing. They just don't seem to be _actually_ doing it Jun 12 21:55:19 true and true. but it's up to the people to write the software anyway. even if FIC shipped the next best thing to sliced bread tomorrow and the people didn't develop the software, open source mobile phone would end up being a myth Jun 12 21:55:38 It's not a myth if it exists. Jun 12 21:55:44 Even if it doesn't go mass market Jun 12 21:55:50 guaqua: sure, but there's no point in writing software for vapor-hardware Jun 12 21:55:51 (which would be bad) Jun 12 21:56:07 guaqua: writing software for qemu just doesn't seem all that interesting Jun 12 21:56:18 pjz: can't deny your points, they are totally valid :) Jun 12 21:56:27 Right. Jun 12 21:56:53 I didn't have a build-env until I got the hardware... and even after having the hardware, it took me weeks to install the build-env. ;-) Jun 12 21:57:35 (not to mention, that setting up the buildenv isn't really fun (waiting for monotone is just...)) Jun 12 21:57:52 yeah, ick, I wish OE would switch to git Jun 12 21:58:16 i'd prefer subversion everywhere, but that's just me :) Jun 12 21:58:21 svn is so broken Jun 12 21:58:29 so is git Jun 12 21:58:30 branch/merge is soooo painful Jun 12 21:58:35 cvs! Jun 12 21:58:44 well, must run Jun 12 21:58:46 later all Jun 12 21:59:07 monotone guys atleast supports 0.26 - 0.35 with one server and databases can be upgraded with mtn upgrade Jun 12 21:59:21 This one time I had to configure the IP address on a Ubuntu computer all by myself Jun 12 21:59:28 monotone is a bitch since it can't be installed from the standard repos on most distros Jun 12 21:59:54 you can get a binary to get things running though Jun 12 21:59:56 why not? Jun 12 21:59:57 guaqua: then complain to maintainers of monotone in those distros. Debian based ones works Jun 12 22:00:15 yeah, was gonna say, it's always worked for me. Jun 12 22:00:28 hrw: ubuntu doesn't have a decent version Jun 12 22:00:30 Wow - number of child deaths on Scotlands roads doubled - to 25 this year Jun 12 22:00:32 for starters... Jun 12 22:00:34 guaqua: monotone when gets DB of older version will tell you how to upgrade Jun 12 22:00:34 oops Jun 12 22:00:49 guaqua: 0.26+ is working with OE. it is old enough to be in any distro Jun 12 22:01:05 guaqua - debian's monotone worked. Jun 12 22:01:12 guaqua: monotone when gets DB of newer version will tell you that it will not use it. Jun 12 22:01:35 i had heaps of trouble with ubuntu defaults when i last tried Jun 12 22:01:44 guaqua: git 1.4 breaks when get archive made with git 1.5 Jun 12 22:01:51 this is not to say it can't be done, but it Jun 12 22:01:53 and will not tell you WHY it breaks Jun 12 22:01:54 's not easy Jun 12 22:02:10 HEH! I didn't intend to start a VCS-flamewar. Jun 12 22:02:12 git messages which it gives to user suxx Jun 12 22:02:22 hrw: i know nothing about git so :) Jun 12 22:02:48 my point about monotone just was that the versions in the distros are old and the vcs seems to be developing quite fast Jun 12 22:03:23 guaqua: and OE supports 0.26 which is over year old Jun 12 22:03:34 when will the next phase start approx.? Jun 12 22:03:50 guaqua: monotone guys gives you static binary of newest version Jun 12 22:04:07 scripts/package/Makefile: needs update Jun 12 22:04:07 fatal: Entry 'include/linux/sched.h' not uptodate. Cannot merge. Jun 12 22:04:07 00:03 hrw@home:linux-git$ Jun 12 22:04:13 welcome in git world Jun 12 22:04:29 hrw: i know. i just also know i had to jump through a couple of hoops last time i did something with it Jun 12 22:04:42 'fatal: Entry 'include/linux/sched.h' not uptodate. Cannot merge.' - but what to do it left to ones which can read and understand git source? Jun 12 22:05:24 hrw - git cannot merge locally edited files. You have to commit a local version first. Jun 12 22:05:31 ... yes, this is a shortcoming of git. Jun 12 22:05:39 Elrond: monotone starts merger in such situations Jun 12 22:05:54 git DISALLOW you to make local changes and update Jun 12 22:05:58 git can only merge versions in the repos. Jun 12 22:06:14 You have to put local changes in a local branch. Jun 12 22:06:25 ... and then merge your lcoal branch with the remote branch. Jun 12 22:06:34 Elrond: please... git and branching... I use quilt for patches not git stuff Jun 12 22:06:39 Yes, I'd wisth for a cvs/svn style of local edit and update. Jun 12 22:07:26 I've moved to git for for complex patch sets. ;o) Jun 12 22:08:22 Elrond: I use kernels which have even 50 patches applied Jun 12 22:09:08 today I had to extract patch from vendor kernel sources dump to merge with other kernel sources dump from same vendor to get functionality from both dumps working. Jun 12 22:09:58 took me some time but from 6M patch I came to 330K one Jun 12 22:10:40 Well, the current yet-another-vcs thingies have the good thing, that everybody can pick a nice one. Jun 12 22:10:52 o yes Jun 12 22:11:15 I personally like git, but then that's, because I use 40% of its features. Jun 12 22:11:20 cvs, svn, git, mtn, bzr, arch, clearcase, perforce, rcs, mercurial etc Jun 12 22:12:10 I used monotone for about two years, suggested some functionality, user handling improvements Jun 12 22:19:04 hrw - Hmm, from my bad memories on when I looked a little at monotone, I think, monotone and git aren't far away. Jun 12 22:19:12 Anyway, I need to write some latex now. ;-) Jun 12 22:19:16 Night people. :-) Jun 12 22:21:00 cu Elrond Jun 12 22:21:12 cu all Jun 12 22:23:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Coding_Guidelines]] [[Calendar]] [[History]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[IPhone]] Jun 12 22:25:33 The wiki says that the phase one phone "will be available in may", and the welcome message says any week now. So is it possible to buy a neo1973 yet? Jun 12 22:25:34 pergesu: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 12 22:26:49 The topic is current Jun 12 22:28:11 pergesu - You're welcome to fix the wiki. :) Jun 12 22:28:25 ... off now, for real... *grr* This channel is addictive. Jun 12 22:28:29 Elrond: cool, just wasn't sure Jun 12 22:28:46 counter Jun 12 22:28:47 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 06:45:35 (3.282±3.3 days) (1451;227) Jun 12 22:29:11 (note the info on this page is all guesses!) Jun 12 22:29:17 Anyway... now I'm off. Jun 12 22:30:45 Perhaps there should be a pointer to the announce list in the topic too. Jun 12 22:52:20 http://cgi.ebay.com/LINUX-DV007-4-0MP-PDA-TRIBAND-N95-PHONE-FREE-1GB-CARD_W0QQitemZ180128598562QQihZ008QQcategoryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Jun 12 22:52:32 interesting looking linux-powered phone... Jun 12 22:53:01 There is linux powered, and linux as a usable operating system. Jun 12 22:53:20 There are many linux devices where the user gains no benefit of it being linux powered. Jun 12 22:53:26 As it's completely locked down. Jun 12 22:54:31 Yeah, my desk phone runs Linux, but that doesn't mean I can do anything with it. Jun 12 22:55:00 I'd argue a device that is locked down but runs linux provides a far larger advantage that vaporware that runs linux and is completely open. Jun 12 22:55:02 openmoko: 03werner * r2235 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-menu.patch: Patch for common/bootmenu.c was garbled, sorry. Jun 12 22:55:16 s/that vaporware/than vaporware Jun 12 22:55:53 A device that is totally locked down but runs linux has no advantage other than perhaps stability, over windows, or sybian Jun 12 22:56:00 err - symbian Jun 12 22:56:54 Even if the neo never actually materialises, it's quite likely that the source may survive and prosper. Jun 12 22:57:18 Speed: Agreed. Jun 12 22:57:29 At least the GSM 07.10 stuff will be usable by others. Jun 12 22:57:39 The neo in many ways is not my ideal phone. Jun 12 22:57:52 I mean more than the patches Jun 12 22:57:59 I mean the core apps developed Jun 12 22:58:36 My ideal phone would be somewhat smaller, and perhaps a clamshell. Jun 12 22:59:03 I think the SE S710 is a great form factor, but most hate it. Jun 12 22:59:12 With a thumb-pointer on the clamshell perhaps. Jun 12 22:59:12 (it would be awesome if it had qwerty in that FF) Jun 12 22:59:38 I think I can live without qwerty. Jun 12 22:59:48 I'd prefer the form-factor of an HTC s710 Jun 12 22:59:54 e.g. a slide-uut keyboard Jun 12 23:00:10 but I'm willing to compromise if it means an open phone :) Jun 12 23:00:15 ewon: and put it on it's side? Jun 12 23:00:22 high-rez: yeah Jun 12 23:00:43 ewon: Yeah that'd be nice. and drop the buttons on the front of the s710 - not needed, takes up realestate. Jun 12 23:01:20 high-rez: agreed Jun 12 23:01:41 so the neo1973 form-factor, just with a slide-out keyboard Jun 12 23:02:06 and the physical presence aspect that's currently lacking. Jun 12 23:02:52 I think that the neo, with an analog thumbstick where the lanyard hole is would be a good compromise. Jun 12 23:02:59 with maybe a couple of buttons next to it. Jun 12 23:03:04 how will people write apps for the neo? I heard that you can only write webapps for the iphone...will most openmoko apps be native, or will it have a good enough broswer that you can write web apps the same as for iphone? Jun 12 23:03:21 this looks nice, but looks a lot like vaporware: http://road-gmbh.de/englisch/index.html Jun 12 23:03:23 native, use gcc Jun 12 23:03:24 It's basically a little X box. Jun 12 23:03:34 With a somewhat wierd window manager. Jun 12 23:03:34 and cross compile. Jun 12 23:03:35 pergesu: with cross-gcc, like god intended Jun 12 23:03:42 cross-gcc? Jun 12 23:03:51 God intended for you to use GCC! Jun 12 23:03:55 gcc cross compiler Jun 12 23:04:08 e.g. produced with crosstool, or some other such abomination Jun 12 23:04:15 * SpeedEvil started on a 20Mhz machine - 200Mhz should be plenty to compile with. Jun 12 23:04:21 ewon: Looks like that nokia communicator. Jun 12 23:04:29 SpeedEvil: are you on crack? Jun 12 23:04:38 you're going to _compile_ on the phone? Jun 12 23:04:44 Why not? Jun 12 23:04:54 Ok - sure for big apps, it's a bad idea. Jun 12 23:05:26 disk space, i/o bandwidth, memory, processor speed, pure shitness of inputting code on a touchscreen... Jun 12 23:05:36 bluetooth keyb. Jun 12 23:05:37 ssh into it Jun 12 23:05:44 i just telnet into my greenphone Jun 12 23:05:59 if you're going to ssh into it you might as well just crossgcc and fucking scp the binary accross :) Jun 12 23:07:19 OTOH - actually executing things should be faster on the phone than the hardware I've got here. Jun 12 23:07:23 (for emulation) Jun 12 23:08:37 execution in the vacuum. Jun 12 23:08:41 * high-rez ducks Jun 12 23:18:08 Hmmmm. A coworker just told me about a Ti chipset that does GSM(quad),UMTS, and WiFi all in one chip. Jun 12 23:18:42 And the problem is docs. Jun 12 23:18:49 And availability. Jun 12 23:19:53 Not to mention that some newer chipsets require CPU to do the actual GSM stack Jun 12 23:20:03 It's supposed to use an at command-set. Jun 12 23:20:07 Which isn't possible on an open phone Jun 12 23:20:19 Point at a datasheet. Jun 12 23:21:06 Speed: Really? That would seem impossible, really, unless you mean just a firmware... The TDMA timing would seem near impossible to get right in software. Jun 12 23:30:25 high-rez - I work on the neo straight via ssh and edit (python) code there and run it. :-) Jun 12 23:30:50 The 200MHz don't feel worse than the 350MHz of my desktop. ;-) Jun 12 23:31:43 I don't have a gcc on it, as I didn't want to waste the flash space for it. Jun 12 23:32:28 .oO(I could deinstall the rssreader. I never use it. ;o) ) Jun 13 00:40:57 * * OM Bug 604 has been created by elrond+bugzilla.openmoko.org@samba-tng.org Jun 13 00:40:58 * * DFU at bootdelay conflicts with normal boot nand read Jun 13 00:40:59 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=604 Jun 13 01:01:38 CoreDump|afk - could you consider obfuscating emailaddreses in "bug created" messages? Jun 13 01:19:00 high-rez: you don't do it _all_ in software. For example, the hardware might be smart enough to tell 'sample from x to y microseconds after the sync pulse, interrupt me when you've got the packet. Jun 13 01:19:37 high-rez: rather than actually requiring the CPU to do the nanosecond scale timings. Much like the GPS chip does. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 13 02:59:57 2007