**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 17 02:59:56 2007
Jun 17 03:31:39 <nox-Hand> counter
Jun 17 03:31:40 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 16:14:08 (2.676±2.7 days) (1493;230)
Jun 17 03:31:42 <nox-Hand>  =)
Jun 17 03:51:06 <cjb> sweet, xrandr works fine
Jun 17 03:51:10 * cjb has his screen rotated.
Jun 17 03:58:18 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2284 10/trunk/oe/packages/libxosd/ (files/use-sane-default-font.patch libxosd_svn.bb): oe/libxosd: refresh patch
Jun 17 04:09:40 <nox-Hand> cjb: Please clarify "has his screen rotated"
Jun 17 04:10:21 <mickey|fic> landscape
Jun 17 04:10:29 <mickey|fic> you can use xrandr to change the X server
Jun 17 04:10:31 <mickey|fic> orientation
Jun 17 04:10:39 <nox-Hand> Oh =]
Jun 17 04:10:41 <mickey|fic> however, the theme is not yet well prepared for that
Jun 17 04:10:48 <mickey|fic> so it looks kind of wrecked :)
Jun 17 04:10:51 <nox-Hand> mickey|fic: Was just about to ask for that
Jun 17 04:10:57 * nox-Hand sposes that will come ;)
Jun 17 04:13:17 <mickey|fic> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/56329df942eab83c0db07dcdf252535c.png
Jun 17 04:13:32 <mickey|fic> actually it looks quite good
Jun 17 04:13:37 <mickey|fic> just the footer needs adjustment
Jun 17 04:13:57 <mickey|fic> and the background image
Jun 17 04:14:41 <nox-Hand> Copes fairly well
Jun 17 04:15:10 <nox-Hand> Just the gradien image-based menu bars that need to conntinue at the end instead of suddenly starting at light
Jun 17 04:15:26 <nox-Hand> (( goes from light silver to darker, but after buttons it returns to light ))
Jun 17 04:16:44 <mickey|fic> yea
Jun 17 04:22:13 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2285 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/ (Makefile.am libmokoui.pro moko-ui.c): libmokoui: put ui convenience functions into moko-ui.c
Jun 17 04:25:40 <Linux_Galore> mickey|fic: the second icon across seems to be out of place
Jun 17 04:26:22 <Linux_Galore> all the icons are orange accept that one
Jun 17 04:27:02 <Linux_Galore> other than that it looks pretty good
Jun 17 04:29:39 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2286 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-ui.h: move...
Jun 17 04:52:13 <cjb> mickey|fic: ping?
Jun 17 04:52:48 <mickey|fic> pöng
Jun 17 04:53:27 <cjb> heh :)
Jun 17 04:54:31 <cjb> (sent a /msg.)
Jun 17 04:57:40 <mickey|fic> oki
Jun 17 06:31:17 <cjb>  n
Jun 17 07:25:08 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2287 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: check pulseaudio context before issueing a play command
Jun 17 07:44:53 <Hopscotch> good morning
Jun 17 07:47:53 <nox-Hand> Hopscotch: Good day
Jun 17 08:02:19 <nox-Hand> Oh dear.. it's 10am and I am about to doze off already :(
Jun 17 08:11:33 <Hopscotch> hehe
Jun 17 08:15:12 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Accelerometer with phone in pocket might be usable as a doze alarm
Jun 17 08:15:34 <SpeedEvil> Chest pocket of course
Jun 17 08:43:51 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: What if the phone got a call (if it got that thing where you flip the phone up to your ear and it answers call, what happens if you are out jogging whilst it calls I wonder?
Jun 17 08:51:02 <SpeedEvil> nox-Hand: Stationary - or more or less stationary, and moving after it starts ringing may be an option.
Jun 17 08:51:03 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2288 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta02-core.patch: 
Jun 17 08:51:03 <CIA-24> openmoko: * use correct 12MHz clock setting for GTA02
Jun 17 08:51:03 <CIA-24> openmoko: * don't export platform devices globally, but mark them static
Jun 17 08:51:03 <CIA-24> openmoko: * temporarily 'fix' the bluetooth power platform device (ugly hack)
Jun 17 08:51:41 <SpeedEvil> You can easily tell when the phone is picked up in the hand, turned over so it's face out if needed, then rotated in the arm up to the head
Jun 17 08:51:52 <SpeedEvil> Quite distinctive I suspect
Jun 17 08:52:30 <pH5> yay, acceleration pattern recognition.
Jun 17 08:52:33 <guaqua> maybe a distict shaking motion to answer a call?
Jun 17 08:52:46 <pH5> I wonder if you could make it count steps from the movement pattern in your pocket while jogging.
Jun 17 08:52:51 <guaqua> regular acceleration expression interpretor? :D
Jun 17 08:53:02 <guaqua> s/interpretor/interpreter/
Jun 17 08:53:03 <apt> guaqua meant: regular acceleration expression interpreter? :D
Jun 17 08:55:04 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: Can't wait ;)
Jun 17 08:55:17 <guaqua> i hope it works well though
Jun 17 08:55:29 <guaqua> i.e. it doesn't break down easily
Jun 17 08:57:05 <nox-Hand> guaqua: Don't you worry, for that price, you can just buy two and have a backup :D
Jun 17 08:57:09 <nox-Hand> ;)
Jun 17 08:57:12 <guaqua> haha
Jun 17 08:57:25 <guaqua> double precision with two phones taped into one
Jun 17 08:57:58 <nox-Hand> guaqua: :O
Jun 17 08:57:58 <guaqua> or even implement a gps compass...fixed distance between and bluetooth communication between :)
Jun 17 08:58:07 * nox-Hand no has money for one yet, so ... Not two ;)
Jun 17 08:58:13 <guaqua> same here
Jun 17 08:58:27 <guaqua> my current phone is breaking down a bit too fast at the moment...
Jun 17 08:59:04 <guaqua> i'd like to know about the discounts to determine if i can afford a P1 :/
Jun 17 08:59:15 <nox-Hand> guaqua: I have a Sony Ericsson W810i which works fine apart from RANDOM reboots :(
Jun 17 08:59:35 <nox-Hand> guaqua: The discount work something like this:
Jun 17 08:59:40 <nox-Hand> You buy a phone for 350 dollars 
Jun 17 08:59:57 <nox-Hand> Then when the V2 comes out, you can plausibly buy that one cheaper
Jun 17 09:00:02 <nox-Hand> The first one is regular price
Jun 17 09:00:09 <guaqua> yeah, i know...
Jun 17 09:00:17 <nox-Hand> Right =)
Jun 17 09:01:02 <nox-Hand> guaqua: Though having two would be incredible :P
Jun 17 09:03:04 <guaqua> wlan and more processing power & more ram to get python working properly are the two main things i'm after in P2
Jun 17 09:03:32 <SpeedEvil> I don't think there is more RAM
Jun 17 09:03:43 <SpeedEvil> More flash, yes.
Jun 17 09:04:05 <SpeedEvil> 128M should be plenty IMO.
Jun 17 09:04:08 <guaqua> okay...the flash isn't such an issue
Jun 17 09:04:13 <SpeedEvil> I've got 128M at the moment.
Jun 17 09:04:30 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: You have a Neo1973?
Jun 17 09:04:32 <guaqua> the processor however is an issue
Jun 17 09:04:34 <SpeedEvil> 14 xterms open, and 30 odd firefox tabs in a couple of windows
Jun 17 09:04:47 <SpeedEvil> nox-Hand: no - old laptop
Jun 17 09:05:03 * nox-Hand almost looked at SpeedEvil with a hint of envy
Jun 17 09:05:05 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: ;)
Jun 17 09:05:23 <SpeedEvil> On the other hand, it's 1.1Kg, and has an uptime of 6-8 hours.
Jun 17 09:09:10 <nox-Hand> SpeedEvil: perfect
Jun 17 09:21:01 <nox-Hand> counter ! :D
Jun 17 09:21:07 <nox-Hand> counter
Jun 17 09:21:07 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 13:19:24 (2.555±2.6 days) (1494;230)
Jun 17 09:21:26 * nox-Hand thought enthusiasm might cheer up aloril :(
Jun 17 09:24:30 <aloril2> well, maybe new numbers are more realistic, I have been too optimistic (probably still too optimistic)
Jun 17 09:24:31 * rwhitby notes that his dfu-util update which started 9 hours ago has just finished.
Jun 17 09:25:30 <pH5> rwhitby: are you underclocking your neo?
Jun 17 09:26:10 * aloril2 put it originally at 65% for next week and 90% <=2007-07-07
Jun 17 09:27:46 <rwhitby> pH5: nope
Jun 17 09:57:22 <kiney> counter
Jun 17 09:57:22 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 13:01:17 (2.543±2.5 days) (1495;230)
Jun 17 10:08:04 <phed_> hi
Jun 17 10:08:58 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Jun 17 10:10:06 <phed_> Just learnt about this project from my non techie brother. I am amazed that I havent learnt about this before
Jun 17 10:10:26 <CM> phed_: You found it at the right time :)
Jun 17 10:10:30 <phed_> Ie. I have been a fan of the N-series phones because they don't take money for the SDK. But this is even better :)
Jun 17 10:11:01 <phed_> There was a very good norwegian article about it
Jun 17 10:11:08 <CM> The Phase 1 dev-phones will probably be ready for ordering soon
Jun 17 10:12:00 <phed_> oh, nice. how many will be produced?
Jun 17 10:12:01 <aloril> phed_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Jun 17 10:14:36 <CM> phed_: Also look at: http://planet.openmoko.org/
Jun 17 10:14:47 <phed_> well, I'd love to do graphics programming on it since its been ages since computers were slow enough that coding software rendering was fun :)
Jun 17 10:14:58 <CM> Hehe
Jun 17 10:16:13 <phed_> also, porting our synthesizis package to it (zzub) would be fun. it is damn fast, so it should be usable on the device.
Jun 17 10:16:27 <phed_> because making music on a touchscreen just must be fun :)
Jun 17 10:16:49 <CM> phed_: I'm sure mickeyl would like that too :)
Jun 17 10:16:52 <phed_> thanks for the links
Jun 17 10:17:28 <CM> The wiki is a good place to look, and hanging around here also
Jun 17 10:17:30 <CM> counter
Jun 17 10:17:31 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 12:51:12 (2.536±2.5 days) (1496;230)
Jun 17 10:17:54 <CM> There's the latst rumours about the phone availability
Jun 17 10:20:29 * phed_ reads how to make phonecalls with it http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM
Jun 17 10:20:34 <phed_> :D
Jun 17 10:24:18 <tigert> you mean openmoko has a PHONE? :)
Jun 17 10:24:29 <phed_> ooo, the phase 0 phone included a guitar pick :D
Jun 17 10:27:29 <ewon> dear good God above, j2me gives me the rage.
Jun 17 10:27:54 <ewon> bring on the openmoko, so I can write some decent god-damned software, in C, like God intended.
Jun 17 10:48:44 <buz> neat, 4gb microsdhc for 40E
Jun 17 10:52:10 <guaqua> we can beat ipod soon ;)
Jun 17 10:52:35 <buz> i think 8G cards recently were announced
Jun 17 10:53:51 <buz> then again there arent even 8G minisd yet
Jun 17 10:54:33 <guaqua> :)
Jun 17 10:55:55 <buz> http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13040
Jun 17 10:57:43 <buz> announcing that it has managed to pack a full eight gigabytes into the microSD form factor for mid-2008 production
Jun 17 10:57:45 <buz> ok that doesnt really help
Jun 17 11:13:44 <phed_> oh, if the phone can use sidmusic for dialphones it is a dream come true :D
Jun 17 11:18:26 <buz> i wonder if neo is fast enough to decode 256kbit AAC?
Jun 17 11:18:34 <buz> (i.e. drm free itunes stuff)
Jun 17 11:18:44 <Kero> :)
Jun 17 11:19:18 * Kero has been collecting emails and phone numbers today.
Jun 17 11:19:36 <buz> i guess it wouldnt hurt being able to say that you can use some well known music store with neo
Jun 17 11:19:45 <Kero> for address books. add an mp3 title or something and read it from the xGB SD card..
Jun 17 11:20:15 <Kero> no more puny ringtones !
Jun 17 11:20:20 <buz> lol
Jun 17 11:20:25 <mjr> one would think 256kbit AAC should be playable
Jun 17 11:20:31 <buz> my nearly 4 year old phone can do that ;)
Jun 17 11:21:37 <Kero> 'course it can (mine can't, btw)
Jun 17 11:23:11 <Kero> but does the openmoko addressbook dataformat carry a "play this song as 'ringtone'" entry ?
Jun 17 11:23:45 <phed_> buz: there is an mp3 music store that is legal, isnt it?
Jun 17 11:23:58 <Kero> (and can I get to it from the app that receives the gsm-event?)
Jun 17 11:24:03 <buz> magnatune but the selection is ridiculous
Jun 17 11:24:35 <Kero> things I'll find out when I have a P1... (any day now? :)
Jun 17 11:26:48 <nox-Hand> Kero: Plus shipping queue ;)
Jun 17 11:27:15 <Kero> i know, i know...
Jun 17 11:27:26 <nox-Hand> Kero: I would expect 2-3 weeks after ordering
Jun 17 11:27:32 * Kero bounces through the channel impatiently
Jun 17 11:29:05 <nox-Hand> Kero: Shaddup, at least you are going to order one ;)
Jun 17 11:29:30 <Kero> if I'm quick enough...
Jun 17 11:30:17 <nox-Hand> Kero: Just get trigger happy
Jun 17 11:30:56 <nox-Hand> If I was buying one here at P1, I'd have gotten a bot programmed to check release every 10 mins and then page me when its released ;)
Jun 17 11:31:01 <nox-Hand> Or just sit about all day for a week
Jun 17 11:36:18 <Kero> :)
Jun 17 11:44:40 <phed_> as for marketing the openmoko: I think viral marketing will be its blessing. since I think the youtube videos of people playing with the neo will be faaaar cooler than any iphone video
Jun 17 11:46:07 <nox-Hand> phed_: ++
Jun 17 11:47:29 <ecraven> counter
Jun 17 11:47:29 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 12:06:13 (2.504±2.5 days) (1497;230)
Jun 17 11:47:48 <nox-Hand> ecraven: 2 days :o
Jun 17 11:47:49 <nox-Hand> ;)
Jun 17 11:49:08 <ecraven> i want p1+ with wifi ;)
Jun 17 11:49:36 * nox-Hand wants P2 with wifi :)
Jun 17 11:50:00 <nox-Hand> Because: 1, higher specs. 2, I can put money aside then :D
Jun 17 11:51:22 <ecraven> oh, p2 will be different from p1+? i'd like the end model hardware-wise, i don't care much about software, as i can update that later..
Jun 17 11:52:23 <nox-Hand> ecraven: Oh yeah, the p1+ will probably be the same ask +2
Jun 17 11:52:26 <nox-Hand> Note _probably- 
Jun 17 11:52:33 <nox-Hand> They don't rightly know yet ;)
Jun 17 11:53:09 <CM> They have prototypes of gta02 at fic already
Jun 17 11:53:19 <CM> Check the hardware part of the wiki :)
Jun 17 11:55:16 <nox-Hand> CM: I know =)
Jun 17 11:55:18 <nox-Hand> It's awesome ;)
Jun 17 11:55:39 * nox-Hand can't wait to see the next gen of Moko-running phones :O
Jun 17 12:07:58 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Jun 17 12:12:28 <nox-Hand> Anyone heard *anything* about spare battery pricing?
Jun 17 12:12:52 <nox-Hand> And how does one charge them? I suppose they can only be charged through the Neo1973
Jun 17 12:15:54 <parag0n> the batteries are identical to the one used in some nokias
Jun 17 12:18:39 <nox-Hand> parag0n: Will look more into it in September :)
Jun 17 12:26:08 <phed_> are there API docs for libmoko* available?
Jun 17 12:35:30 * nox-Hand back for good
Jun 17 12:39:14 * nox-Hand says sorry for all the join frenzy
Jun 17 12:46:37 <SpeedEvil> parag0n: the batteries are similar - not identical.
Jun 17 12:47:01 <SpeedEvil> parag0n: the Neo1973 will run from charged Nokia bats, but it won't charge them
Jun 17 12:48:47 <phed_> hmm sorry to ask again, but are there any openmoko documents available?
Jun 17 12:48:51 <phed_> api documents i mean
Jun 17 12:49:26 <SpeedEvil> Use the source phed_.
Jun 17 12:49:39 <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by API?
Jun 17 12:49:58 <balrog-kun> mine charges the Nokia battery
Jun 17 12:50:22 <balrog-kun> i have no other battery than the Nokia one and no other way to charge it than inside the Neo
Jun 17 12:50:27 <phed_> ie a reference for the different libraries provided by libopenmoko
Jun 17 12:50:57 <SpeedEvil> balrog-kun: Hmm - IIRC someone had noted that on the battery page.
Jun 17 12:51:50 <balrog-kun> only strange thing i noticed is the green batt. life inidicator applet never goes above some 60%
Jun 17 13:05:05 <Tronic> Being able to use Nokia batteries is a big advantage.
Jun 17 13:05:14 <SpeedEvil> Yep.
Jun 17 13:05:31 <SpeedEvil> I noted that 3 AAA batteries would also fit, in an adaptor.
Jun 17 13:05:45 <SpeedEvil> Or did I mean AAAA
Jun 17 13:05:49 * SpeedEvil has now forgot.
Jun 17 13:06:00 <Tronic> AAAA is not a standard size.
Jun 17 13:06:19 <Tronic> AAA is the smallest one that is available in all stores.
Jun 17 13:06:29 <SpeedEvil> AAAA is a standard size.
Jun 17 13:06:30 <Tronic> ... and it seems quite big for a cellphone.
Jun 17 13:06:45 <SpeedEvil> But, admittedly, not comparatively available.
Jun 17 13:07:26 <phed_> very available around here tho
Jun 17 13:07:44 <phed_> since I have bought AAAA instead of AAA way too many times haha
Jun 17 13:08:15 <CoreDump|home> morning
Jun 17 13:08:54 <LuitvD> 'afternoon
Jun 17 13:09:27 <CoreDump|home> ~ugt
Jun 17 13:09:31 <apt> well, ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Jun 17 14:08:57 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]]
Jun 17 14:23:56 <LuitvD> well, it looks like it's sunday again...
Jun 17 14:24:45 <LuitvD> IRC is quiet, list is quiet, small amount of news, not much to do... boring stuff...
Jun 17 14:24:52 <LuitvD> counter
Jun 17 14:24:53 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 10:47:31 (2.450±2.4 days) (1498;230)
Jun 17 14:25:07 <LuitvD> I hope this is the last sunday without P1 devices
Jun 17 14:54:08 <loufoque> P1 isn't out yet!?
Jun 17 14:54:16 <loufoque> but don't some people already have it?
Jun 17 14:54:16 <ewon> nope.
Jun 17 14:54:23 <ewon> they have the devel version, irrc
Jun 17 14:54:24 <ewon> *iirc
Jun 17 14:55:28 <CoreDump|home> we have a P1
Jun 17 14:55:51 <miip> isn't it P0?
Jun 17 14:56:14 <CoreDump|home> the p0 devs got p1 as well due to the hardware bugs in p0
Jun 17 14:56:26 <miip> ahh i see
Jun 17 14:57:45 <LuitvD> CoreDump|home: and the p1  does power management right?
Jun 17 14:58:00 <CoreDump|home> LuitvD: as far as I can tell, yes
Jun 17 14:58:02 <CM> But it's from a small batch of P1, not the factory made ones
Jun 17 14:58:03 <LuitvD> CoreDump|home: if so, what's the average battery lifetime
Jun 17 14:58:18 <LuitvD> standby/use
Jun 17 14:58:20 <CoreDump|home> LuitvD: no idea really
Jun 17 14:58:24 <LuitvD> heheh
Jun 17 14:58:36 <LuitvD> never really tried?
Jun 17 14:59:28 <CoreDump|home> nope
Jun 17 15:02:28 <balrog-kun> i wouldn't say that PM is all fine now, but it's surely better than it was
Jun 17 15:03:38 <k|to_> counter
Jun 17 15:03:39 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 10:28:08 (2.436±2.4 days) (1499;231)
Jun 17 15:03:49 <k|to_> wow, 70%
Jun 17 15:04:01 <k|to_> where'd all the extra confidence come from?
Jun 17 15:04:25 <CM> Read the link in the counter, and planet.openmoko.org :)
Jun 17 15:04:59 <balrog-kun> i see things like the phone spontaneously powering up happen sometimes, when the battery charge reaches level, but then the level is not enough to finish booting and put the device in suspend so it runs out of battery before that happens and getting out of this loop may be difficult
Jun 17 15:08:50 <aloril2> klto_: short range confidence is just 40% though
Jun 17 15:09:46 <ewon> I hear the wifi chip in the P2 is to be atheros-based
Jun 17 15:09:49 <ewon> I approve
Jun 17 15:09:58 <ewon> packet injection capable
Jun 17 15:10:06 <ewon> wep cracking in under 5 minutes :)
Jun 17 15:10:48 <SpeedEvil> No - that is the allied project.
Jun 17 15:10:52 <SpeedEvil> Evil-Neo.
Jun 17 15:11:12 <CM>  SpeedEvil Smith1973 ;)
Jun 17 15:12:51 <mjr> well, the wifi chip sure (probably) is by atheros, but not what one's gotten used to on desk/laptops
Jun 17 15:14:04 <loufoque> wep cracking is a must-have for the neo
Jun 17 15:14:31 <mjr> ...not
Jun 17 15:14:56 <CoreDump|home> exactly
Jun 17 15:15:23 <loufoque> that's the only reliable way to have decent internet connection worldwide ;)
Jun 17 15:15:42 <CoreDump|home> loufoque: it is illegal and immoral
Jun 17 15:15:50 <loufoque> only works in urban areas though
Jun 17 15:15:56 <CoreDump|home> open WLANs are fair game of course
Jun 17 15:17:42 <CoreDump|home> what's the state of affairs w/ WPA btw? Is it crackable yet?
Jun 17 15:18:58 <Stephmw> CoreDump|home: iirc open WLANs are offlimit in the UK now
Jun 17 15:19:18 <loufoque> I never understood how law could prevent cracking.
Jun 17 15:19:36 <loufoque> I'm just sending some waves on some given frequency
Jun 17 15:19:50 <loufoque> they just happen to have the effect of giving me a password
Jun 17 15:19:59 <Stephmw> loufoque: laws rarely prevent IMO... they're used to justify punishments on those caught
Jun 17 15:19:59 <CoreDump|home> Stephmw: they are in germany as well since last month. 
Jun 17 15:20:21 <CoreDump|home> loufoque: you are trespassing, it is that simple.
Jun 17 15:20:32 <SuN> I just happened to throw a knife through the air, and hit someone. Clearly it is not murder!
Jun 17 15:20:37 <mjr> also if you just send electrons along the wire and just happen to root loufoque's home computer, that's okay
Jun 17 15:20:46 <Stephmw> SuN: no, it's manslaughter
Jun 17 15:20:47 <loufoque> how am I trespassing? It's just waves
Jun 17 15:20:55 <SuN> (or legally: manslaughter)
Jun 17 15:21:22 <SuN> ANd roads are just roads. And doors are just doors.
Jun 17 15:22:41 <CoreDump|home> exactly
Jun 17 15:22:57 <SuN> Also, zapping someone's head off with a laser is also "just sending some waves on some given frequency".
Jun 17 15:23:04 <ewon> am I right in thinking the openmoko uses GTK or some subset of it for its GUI?
Jun 17 15:23:16 <miip> ewon:  yes
Jun 17 15:23:52 <thorbenk> Hello there :-)
Jun 17 15:24:02 <ewon> btw, WPA isn't too crackable, you have to capture the handshake when a client connects, and then run a dictionary attack against it
Jun 17 15:24:16 <thorbenk> Out of curiosity I'm building openmoko using MokoMakefile...
Jun 17 15:24:17 <loufoque> so a machine that sends random waves in some range is legal, but one that happens to send the waves which make some other machine send some confidential information isn't?
Jun 17 15:24:20 <loufoque> that's nonsense.
Jun 17 15:24:29 <thorbenk> Could someone look at this failed configure here: http://pastebin.com/930725 What can I do about it?
Jun 17 15:24:57 <mjr> Remember wave-particle duality, people. Firing a gun at loufoque's head is also just emitting waves on some given frequency.
Jun 17 15:25:04 <SuN> loufoque: yes, just like throwing a knife through the air is not illegal, but throwing it at a person is.
Jun 17 15:25:31 <SuN> The means are irrelavent, it's the intent (and proven intent).
Jun 17 15:25:33 <MacNorthXP_> thorbenk:  you need libxosd-dev
Jun 17 15:25:41 <loufoque> mjr: sending waves is only allowed on some given ranges.
Jun 17 15:25:50 <loufoque> mjr: and some given frequencies
Jun 17 15:26:02 <ewon> thinking of writing an open clone of http://www.targetplot.com.au/targplot.htm - I currently have a zaurus running GPE, so if I could write once, run on the Z and Moko without mods, that would be cool
Jun 17 15:26:12 <loufoque> SuN: you can't prove intent.
Jun 17 15:26:19 <ewon> currently poking Glade with a stick
Jun 17 15:26:28 <thorbenk> MacNorthXP_: Well I've got xosd installed on my gentoo box
Jun 17 15:26:31 <SuN> I'm inclined to say there are more free frequencies than restricted ones.
Jun 17 15:26:52 <SuN> loufoque: that's quite the implication. If that were true, no one could be convicted for murder.
Jun 17 15:27:02 <MacNorthXP_> apparently it doesn't have the aclocal macros
Jun 17 15:27:14 <SuN> Since denying intent would set such a person free.
Jun 17 15:27:16 <MacNorthXP_> (or can't find them)
Jun 17 15:27:34 <thorbenk> MacNorthXP_: Hmm, any ideas?
Jun 17 15:27:35 <loufoque> SuN: even killing someone without intent is a crime.
Jun 17 15:28:07 <mjr> loufoque, I'm curious, are you just saying whatever shit your brain comes up with without thinking, a pedantic idiot, or merely trolling?
Jun 17 15:28:09 <SuN> loufoque: I'm not denying that. But the intent makes it murder and a more serious offence, justifying a more severe penalty.
Jun 17 15:28:37 <loufoque> mjr: I'm saying the truth.
Jun 17 15:28:52 <MacNorthXP_> see if gentoo has an xosd-dev 'package' or start looking for that macro yourself and then if you find it, put where aclocal will find it
Jun 17 15:29:02 <thorbenk> MacNorthXP_: These are the files that the xosd package installed: http://pastebin.com/930728
Jun 17 15:29:08 <mjr> loufoque, so all three then, kthxbye
Jun 17 15:29:11 <loufoque> SuN: you just can't prove intent. The only thing you can do is evaluate the circumstances of the crime to know whether it was an accident or not.
Jun 17 15:29:22 <SuN> Alright then, I'll go into Legal Mode. Can you back anything you say with specific laws or jurisprudence?
Jun 17 15:29:39 <SuN> loufoque: eh that's pretty much the same as proving intent.
Jun 17 15:29:52 <MacNorthXP_> /usr/share/aclocal/libxosd.m4 is the one aclocal needs. perhaps it doesn't look there?
Jun 17 15:29:53 <loufoque> mjr: I am indeed pedantic, and pretty proud of that.
Jun 17 15:30:29 <loufoque> SuN: that's quite different.
Jun 17 15:30:53 <SuN> How so? It's enough to justify a more severe penalty, obviously.
Jun 17 15:31:45 <loufoque> SuN: see the new tarantino death proof movie for example. Stuntman Mike purposedly killed five girls, but it was filed as a car accident because of the circumstances of the deaths.
Jun 17 15:31:54 <mjr> loufoque, so there's no fixing you then. But in the real world, we use "prove" differently than in math, HTH, HAND.
Jun 17 15:31:59 <loufoque> so the sentence doesn't depend on intent, but rather on the circumstances.
Jun 17 15:32:44 <SuN> It does depend on the intent, it's just that the evidence doesn't support the actual situation in this particular case.
Jun 17 15:34:21 <SuN> Also, developing legal theories based on a Tarantino doesn't quite sound like the right path to me.
Jun 17 15:34:30 <SuN> Tarantino movie, that is.
Jun 17 15:36:00 <mjr> no, but I can see how that might sound like a good idea in speaking-before-thinking-pedantic-idiot-troll land
Jun 17 15:36:03 <thorbenk> MacNorthXP_: Sorry, my IRC client just crashed... I'll look at the debug output again to see if the right include is picked up
Jun 17 15:40:44 <thorbenk> MacNorthXP_: I just did update MokoMakefile and started make again and now xosd is downloaded from SVN... Looks much better now :-)
Jun 17 15:40:59 <MacNorthXP_> nice :)
Jun 17 15:42:02 <mjr> incidentally, should one still install moko in a 32-bit chroot (say) on a 64-bit arch?
Jun 17 15:42:52 <loufoque> mjr: I am still surprised after all those years how some people can come up with "you're an idiot" or worse, "you're a troll" as arguments.
Jun 17 15:43:22 <loufoque> mjr: you're quite a novelty though, since you're also reproaching me of being pedantic, which is actually a Good Thing.
Jun 17 15:44:10 <loufoque> well, it's still quite a pejorative term, but it's kinda like academic in sense.
Jun 17 15:46:21 <robster> mjr: i think some of the tools, like devirginator/dfu-util might make 32 le assumptions. 
Jun 17 15:47:04 * CoreDump|home flashes P1
Jun 17 15:58:34 <CoreDump|home> ugh
Jun 17 15:58:48 <CoreDump|home> killing "today" wasn't such a bright idea 
Jun 17 15:59:02 <CoreDump|home> there is no matchbox desktop behind it??
Jun 17 16:03:46 <balrog-kun> nope, only cold, black emptiness
Jun 17 16:04:10 <CoreDump|home> I hope it's just a bug
Jun 17 16:08:57 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Jun 17 16:21:24 <balrog-kun> imho it's assumed that the "today" is running
Jun 17 16:21:46 <balrog-kun> which is not a bad assumption once it stops segfaulting
Jun 17 16:24:41 <CoreDump|home> bad assumption, matchbox-desktop should be runnig in any case
Jun 17 16:31:51 <nox-Hand> Ahaahahahah
Jun 17 16:32:02 <nox-Hand> I didn't get why some people were confused about what I was talking about
Jun 17 16:32:14 <nox-Hand> Seems I mistook #ubuntu for #openmoko ;)
Jun 17 16:35:21 <phed> hehe
Jun 17 16:35:33 * phed has spent a while reading through the openmoko-* applications
Jun 17 16:35:36 <phed> seems very easy to code for
Jun 17 16:35:46 <phed> so, now I want a phone so I can help out finalizing a lot of those apps
Jun 17 16:36:15 <nox-Hand> phed: If there is not going to bemade one, I need to learn how to code an MPD client :] Or perhaps, even more awesome, how to port an app to OpenMoko :D
Jun 17 16:36:28 <phed> MPD?
Jun 17 16:36:30 <nox-Hand> MPD Remote Control over WiFi at home contorlling media server
Jun 17 16:36:37 <nox-Hand> phed: Music PLayer Daemon
Jun 17 16:36:41 <phed> ah
Jun 17 16:36:48 <nox-Hand> Excuse my spelling, I forgot to go to bed last night
Jun 17 16:36:53 <nox-Hand> So running on empty now
Jun 17 16:36:57 <phed> well, gui-wise stuff seems very easy to do
Jun 17 16:37:11 <nox-Hand> It's basically a light Linux, really
Jun 17 16:37:14 <phed> and as long as you know how to do the underlying stuff it seems just a matter of doing it
Jun 17 16:37:34 <phed> yeah, but I mean the widgets are very clean and effective
Jun 17 16:38:56 <nox-Hand> phed: Actually held a Neo1973 yet?
Jun 17 16:39:03 <phed> nope
Jun 17 16:39:33 <phed> I just learnt about it, and spent some time reading up on it. and now reading through the sources that are available so far
Jun 17 16:41:16 <nox-Hand> phed: Neat stuff
Jun 17 16:41:25 <nox-Hand> phed: Anyway.. going to go lay down for a night ;)
Jun 17 16:41:32 <phed> hehe probably smart
Jun 17 16:41:43 <ynezz> you can start to devel even without neo - under qemu
Jun 17 16:41:49 * phed puts together evil plans
Jun 17 16:42:17 <ynezz> counter
Jun 17 16:42:17 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 09:38:49 (2.402±2.4 days) (1500;231)
Jun 17 16:42:26 <ynezz> 70% omg!1!
Jun 17 16:42:56 <phed> what does the percentages mean?
Jun 17 16:43:45 <nox-Hand> phed: Probability of release estimate
Jun 17 16:44:00 <nox-Hand> It's an unofficial counter of when it might get released
Jun 17 16:46:37 <nox-Hand> ynezz: relax,... breathe.. BREATHE DAMN IT!!
Jun 17 16:46:38 <nox-Hand> ;)
Jun 17 16:46:44 * nox-Hand hides behind aloril 
Jun 17 16:47:36 <nox-Hand> NightOM nerds =D
Jun 17 16:49:14 <dotx> hello
Jun 17 16:53:02 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03andrew * r2289 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (136 files in 17 dirs): Merge last week's changes from cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/qemu
Jun 17 16:55:49 <Sup3rkiddo> to those guys are having the device...does hanging up seg the dialer?
Jun 17 16:56:31 <Sup3rkiddo> *who are
Jun 17 16:57:06 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: it's been fixed already
Jun 17 16:57:20 <xkr47> "please don't hang up"
Jun 17 16:57:22 <xkr47> :)
Jun 17 16:57:46 <balrog-kun> !bug 597
Jun 17 16:57:47 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, when?, acutally i have been trying to wrap libgsmd..and i found that hanging up is segging the interpreter
Jun 17 16:57:58 <balrog-kun> hmm
Jun 17 16:58:01 <balrog-kun> let's try again :p
Jun 17 16:58:03 <balrog-kun> ~bug 597
Jun 17 16:58:21 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, i know my way to the bugzila ..:D
Jun 17 16:59:23 <Sup3rkiddo> ok, it seems to be related to the GUI...hmm..
Jun 17 16:59:44 <balrog-kun> !ombug 597
Jun 17 16:59:45 <cdbot2> * * Bug 597, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown
Jun 17 16:59:46 <cdbot2> * * balrogg(AT)gmail.com: openmoko-dialer segfaults on cancelling an outgoing call
Jun 17 16:59:47 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=597
Jun 17 17:00:01 <balrog-kun> finally :
Jun 17 17:00:02 <balrog-kun> )
Jun 17 17:00:43 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: if it's hanging libgsmd then it must be a different bug :/
Jun 17 17:01:29 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, hmm..ok, i dunno if i am the one messing up ...will check stuff up ;)
Jun 17 17:06:18 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, btw, even the demo application libgsmd-tool, says it couldn't connect to gsmd...is that a known issue with gsmd and libgsmd's inability to connect to it?
Jun 17 17:07:27 <thorbenk> Are there any Gentoo users here?
Jun 17 17:07:46 <Sup3rkiddo> thorbenk, me..me..me
Jun 17 17:09:24 <thorbenk> Sup3rkiddo: I'm trying to build and run openmoko using qemu, but I gather you need gcc3 to compile qemu? How did you do it?
Jun 17 17:10:24 <Sup3rkiddo> thorbenk, yes...i installed gcc3 and used gcc-config to switch my compiler, and then compiled qemu..i had to re-emerge monotone though
Jun 17 17:10:58 <thorbenk> Sup3rkiddo: Did you switch back to gcc4 after compiling qemu?
Jun 17 17:11:09 <Sup3rkiddo> thorbenk, yes
Jun 17 17:11:10 <thorbenk> I don't want to switch my whole system back to gcc3 because of this
Jun 17 17:11:28 <thorbenk> Sup3rkiddo: OK, I'll emerge a gcc3 then, thanks
Jun 17 17:11:39 <Sup3rkiddo> thorbenk, no problem :)
Jun 17 17:22:10 <tri> hi
Jun 17 17:22:35 <tri> sync between openmoko and zimbra would be nice or is this already possible ?
Jun 17 17:27:50 <phed> wee
Jun 17 17:28:05 <phed> then I think I've run out of things to read about the neo/openmoko :|
Jun 17 17:29:44 <SpeedEvil> You've read the wiki:Special:all_pages ?
Jun 17 17:29:46 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 17 17:30:00 <Vegar> have you read all the mailing lists?
Jun 17 17:30:11 <SpeedEvil> In practice - there isn't that much.
Jun 17 17:31:19 <SpeedEvil> You can always ask question here.
Jun 17 17:34:24 <Stephmw> ahh shucks. I wanted to time someone reading the lists
Jun 17 17:35:08 <phed> haha, not all. but I did have a glance on the discussions the last months :P
Jun 17 17:37:04 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: i don't know, i think it's supposed to work
Jun 17 17:37:40 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, its not working in qemu in my case..
Jun 17 17:37:53 <balrog-kun> thorbenk: you don't have to switch the whole system to gcc3 with gcc-config, it's enought o configure qemu with --cc=gcc-3.3.6
Jun 17 17:38:36 <balrog-kun> Sup3rkiddo: well, in qemu there's no celluular operator in range :p
Jun 17 17:38:39 <thorbenk> balrog-kun: Great, thanks :-) gcc3 is still compiling here, after that I'll try it :-)
Jun 17 17:39:14 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, yeah but i am not tyring to make a call..duh...so i take it gsmd doesnt run then
Jun 17 17:39:22 <Sup3rkiddo> in qemu that is
Jun 17 17:40:00 <balrog-kun> well, i don't know, try /etc/init.d/gsmd start
Jun 17 17:40:16 <balrog-kun> and then see what's in the logs in /var/tmp/gsmd.log (or similar)
Jun 17 17:40:23 <Sup3rkiddo> balrog-kun, tried that..shows that gsmd is starting...and even is successful
Jun 17 17:40:30 <Sup3rkiddo> oh..ok..will take a look
Jun 17 17:40:41 <pH5> Sup3rkiddo: if the emulator doesn't emulate the modem, gsmd will terminate after some time if it doesn't get answers to ATE0
Jun 17 17:40:59 <balrog-kun> gsmd probably is unable to understand what the modem is saying and maybe exits
Jun 17 17:41:42 <balrog-kun> pH5: there is a very primitive modem but it's totally untested and there are many features (like echo on/echo off) that it doesn't understand so it probably breaks the parser
Jun 17 17:41:48 <Sup3rkiddo> hmm..
Jun 17 17:42:29 <Sup3rkiddo> pH5, so i take it, that theres no way i could test applications that are dependent on libgsmd with some device?
Jun 17 17:42:38 <Sup3rkiddo> *real device
Jun 17 17:43:32 <pH5> Sup3rkiddo: well, you could try to improve the emulated modem so that it gives sane results.
Jun 17 17:44:00 <Sup3rkiddo> pH5, vow...sounds like fun ;)...
Jun 17 17:44:33 <balrog-kun> yeah, that would very nice
Jun 17 17:45:52 <SpeedEvil> Or even ideally, so it can connect to a real GSM modem
Jun 17 17:45:52 <aloril2> ynezz: prob <= 2007-07-07 has been high before I added it to IRC message (prob1 + prob2; prob1: <= 2007-06-22; prob2: 2007-07-23<= <= 2007-07-07
Jun 17 17:46:49 <balrog-kun> SpeedEvil: if you have a real GSM modem connected to a serial port of your host then there's no problem for qemu to talk to it
Jun 17 17:46:55 <aloril2> its also 90% < 2007-09-01 ;-)
Jun 17 17:49:16 <balrog-kun> people even use that to connect to internet with a winmodem and windows running in qemu on linux
Jun 17 17:49:18 <loufoque> 5% never
Jun 17 18:00:42 <DukeOfURL> Hi, any news?
Jun 17 18:01:27 <thorbenk> OK, now I've got qemu built and flashed with the built openmoko-image
Jun 17 18:01:35 <thorbenk> But I'm stuck in the boot menu :-P
Jun 17 18:01:42 <thorbenk> How do I get past it?
Jun 17 18:01:49 <Vegar> enter/space keys
Jun 17 18:02:11 <thorbenk> Vegar: Ahh, Space, who thinks of that? I tried enter obviously... Thanks
Jun 17 18:02:46 <Vegar> well
Jun 17 18:02:58 <Vegar> when you were done flashing, it said which key was which
Jun 17 18:07:24 <aloril2> DukeOfURL: not since Friday
Jun 17 18:08:07 <DukeOfURL> ok
Jun 17 18:11:02 <Vegar> what happened on friday?
Jun 17 18:17:02 <cjb> 'lo all.
Jun 17 18:17:13 <cjb> balrog-kun: hey, remind me whether you have a p1?
Jun 17 18:21:28 <balrog-kun> cjb: yes, i have a p1
Jun 17 18:22:41 <deepank> I want to know about the basic structure of mokoui library
Jun 17 18:26:42 <deepank> can anybody help me out... 
Jun 17 18:27:04 <cjb> deepank: there are wiki pages on it.  have you read them?
Jun 17 18:30:49 <kiney> counter
Jun 17 18:30:49 <aloril> http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 08:44:33 (2.364±2.4 days) (1501;231)
Jun 17 18:32:41 <deepank> cjb:no I could not find a wiki page detailing that. Can you please point them out to me
Jun 17 18:34:01 <ynezz> Nokia n800 or Zaurus CL-1000? That's a question...
Jun 17 18:36:23 <aloril2> Vegar: see above counter page (or planet)
Jun 17 18:39:22 <CoreDump|afk> ynezz: the n800 is suffering from some not-so-nice details, be sure to google about its "openness" before purchasing
Jun 17 18:40:16 <ynezz> for example?
Jun 17 19:00:54 <happycube> yeah the n770 isnt open either hw-wise
Jun 17 19:03:17 <LuitvD> happycube: no big company does open hardware...
Jun 17 19:03:34 <LuitvD> they're all too happy with their software lock-in
Jun 17 19:04:24 <DukeOfURL> is there any phone where GPS data can be retrieved (by say, a Java ME applet)?
Jun 17 19:04:43 <robster> Sun distribute Verilog for their SPARC CPUs
Jun 17 19:06:21 <cjb> LuitvD: intel?
Jun 17 19:06:40 <cjb> robster: I was reading some worrying stuff about that.
Jun 17 19:06:58 <phed> the n-series phones supports bluetooth gps if you use ie the contextwatcher software :)
Jun 17 19:07:10 <cjb> robster: http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/one_plus_one_is_fifty#comment-1181726726000
Jun 17 19:07:52 <ynezz> CoreDump|afk: any link(s)?
Jun 17 19:07:57 <robster> DukeOfURL: i think blackberries can
Jun 17 19:11:33 <CoreDump|afk> ynezz: no, that's why I pointed to google
Jun 17 19:12:23 <ynezz> I can't find something relevant
Jun 17 19:14:42 <CoreDump|afk> both hrw|gone and koen own one. Ask them what they think about it
Jun 17 19:21:10 <cjb> So, is the p1 microphone working for anyone else?  Speakers work fine here, but mic not at all.
Jun 17 19:32:50 <ewon> cjb: afair, people have made phone calls, ergo the mic works
Jun 17 19:37:57 <cjb> ewon: I have made phone calls, but the mic didn't work.
Jun 17 19:38:02 <cjb> :)
Jun 17 19:38:41 <ewon> cjb: I see :)
Jun 17 19:39:34 <cjb> and doing "arecord foo.wav; aplay foo.wav" just plays back silence, too.
Jun 17 19:45:02 <CoreDump|afk> cjb: are you 100% sure that your asound.ctl is correct?
Jun 17 19:45:13 <CoreDump|afk> *asound.state
Jun 17 19:46:28 <cjb> CoreDump|afk: I used pavelmachek's state; that's how I got the speaker working.
Jun 17 19:46:43 <CoreDump|afk> speaker != mic
Jun 17 19:46:46 <cjb> but it didn't get the mic working.  maybe someone can tell me which alsa devices control the mic input/volume.
Jun 17 19:46:48 <cjb> of course.
Jun 17 19:47:23 * CoreDump|afk will be back later
Jun 17 20:08:57 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:LongMan]] [[User:Denis_polevoi]] [[Neo1973/ru]]
Jun 17 20:41:44 <ph|ber> m0o
Jun 17 20:42:12 <SpeedEvil> B4rk
Jun 17 20:45:20 <ph|ber> whats up
Jun 17 20:45:56 <SpeedEvil> Shh! We are hunting release dates!
Jun 17 20:53:37 <Elrond> *G*
Jun 17 21:01:33 <SpeedEvil> Though  that should have been wascally welease dates!
Jun 17 21:03:58 <mmp> SpeedEvil: wour speech weminds me sometwing :)
Jun 17 21:06:26 <mmp> (sorry, but I could not help myself:)
Jun 17 21:10:15 <LuitvD> :P
Jun 17 21:11:37 <mwester-laptop> Er, what's up doc?
Jun 17 21:11:51 <CM> mmp: Hehe.. You wascal!
Jun 17 21:19:02 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - BTW: I think, packet 23 are correlation data. Around the maximum or so. Just the scaling confuses me. ;)
Jun 17 21:19:30 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Not to mention, that the thing creates data in the same scaling area for satelits with and without signal. ;o)
Jun 17 21:20:08 <SpeedEvil> So, you think you are recieving output from the correlators for satellites?
Jun 17 21:20:18 <SpeedEvil> have you decoded the format, or is it just a guess?
Jun 17 21:20:27 <Elrond> It's just a guess.
Jun 17 21:20:56 <Elrond> It looks like 6 (or 14, if I request 14), 12 bit  readouts around the maximum.
Jun 17 21:22:10 <Hopscotch> the a/d converters have 3bits *afair*
Jun 17 21:22:20 <SpeedEvil> So you mean that you get 6 or 14 bins energy read out to you from the packet?
Jun 17 21:22:51 <SpeedEvil> The bins with the highest energies?
Jun 17 21:23:32 <Elrond> Is it really "energy"?  I'd call the resukt of a correlator something like "sum" or so?
Jun 17 21:24:04 <SpeedEvil> It's really energy, in the sense that it's integrated power.
Jun 17 21:24:12 <SpeedEvil> Sum is also valid.
Jun 17 21:24:50 <Elrond> So yes, the highest energy seems to centered in the readout.
Jun 17 21:25:11 <Elrond> The correlation happens in analog space?
Jun 17 21:25:32 <SpeedEvil> I don't know how the correlators are made. However.
Jun 17 21:25:40 <SpeedEvil> My guesses are:
Jun 17 21:26:04 <SpeedEvil> Take fast 3 or 4 bit A/D at several Mhz sampling the incoming signal.
Jun 17 21:26:47 <SpeedEvil> For each signal, add or subtract this from the integrator output depending on 
Jun 17 21:26:56 <SpeedEvil> for each correlator output that is
Jun 17 21:27:08 <SpeedEvil> depending on the PRN value at that correlator
Jun 17 21:27:18 <SpeedEvil> It may be done in either analog or digital space.
Jun 17 21:27:29 <Elrond> Ahh.
Jun 17 21:27:55 <SpeedEvil> SO it could be reading out either a digital counter, or a capacitor which is read by some sort of A/D
Jun 17 21:28:21 <SpeedEvil> Not sampling the incoming GPS signal - sampling some IF signal.
Jun 17 21:28:40 <ewon> man, fretsonfire rocks!
Jun 17 21:28:55 <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly I've not had much time in the last few days - been concentrating on stuff to make money :(
Jun 17 21:29:24 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - Yuck. You found some money sources?
Jun 17 21:29:41 <SpeedEvil> Sort-of. Selling stuff I build on ebay.
Jun 17 21:29:56 <SpeedEvil> Health makes full-time-job problematic ATM.
Jun 17 21:33:10 <Elrond> part time jobs are spare, as usual?
Jun 17 21:33:40 <SpeedEvil> My health is unreliable, I can't say if I'm going to be feeling OK on any given day. 
Jun 17 21:33:48 <SpeedEvil> Which makes most jobs problematic.
Jun 17 21:34:00 <Elrond> Ahh.
Jun 17 21:35:31 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: So when's the GPL'd driver scheduled for? :) (Great work!)
Jun 17 21:38:49 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - *lol* I wont make the fic-error and name any dates. ;o)
Jun 17 21:39:51 <LuitvD> XD
Jun 17 21:40:01 * mwester-laptop concurs!
Jun 17 21:41:10 <Elrond> Hmm, requesting 32 correlator-bins seems to also work. ;o)
Jun 17 21:42:13 <SpeedEvil> But being able to even pick up the correlator output at all, and relate it to the real-time-clock in the GPS gives you position to a couple of kilometers or so - and accurate time.
Jun 17 21:42:47 <SpeedEvil> Many outputs should only be needed in horrible urban canyon environments.
Jun 17 21:43:05 <SpeedEvil> Wehre there are lots of reflections, and the prime signal may not be the largest one.
Jun 17 21:43:21 <SpeedEvil> In an open field, it shouldn't be so important.
Jun 17 21:43:35 <Elrond> Hmm... *WILD guessting*  I think, I can see the reflections inside my house. ;o)
Jun 17 21:44:41 <SpeedEvil> The scaling should be around 1 microsecond a bin, so a thousand feet more or less.
Jun 17 21:45:05 <Elrond> Okay... so that can't be reflections in my house. Good catch. :)
Jun 17 21:45:07 <SpeedEvil> There may however be two sets of correlators.
Jun 17 21:45:45 <SpeedEvil> One of which is a 'slow' set - which is aimed at picking up the whole bitstream. The other which is aimed at timing exactly the 'edges' of the PRN signal
Jun 17 21:46:08 <SpeedEvil> To provide very accurate positioning.
Jun 17 21:46:49 <Elrond> Hmm, so possibly the ones I see are the "fast ones"?
Jun 17 21:46:57 <SpeedEvil> I don't know.
Jun 17 21:47:01 <SpeedEvil> This is utter speculation.
Jun 17 21:47:11 <SpeedEvil> There are a couple of possible ways it could be done.
Jun 17 21:47:31 <Elrond> Well, a lot of this is currently speculation. :-)
Jun 17 21:47:48 <SpeedEvil> Indeed :)
Jun 17 21:48:16 <Elrond> I have a bunch of data from outdoor from today. I need to convert the hexdumps to usable data for handling in numpy. ;-)
Jun 17 21:48:18 <SpeedEvil> Consider that with 'only' 1000 or 2000 correlators per signal, you ahve to _very_ accurately measure the phase between bins to get an accurate position.
Jun 17 21:48:44 <SpeedEvil> As the 1 microsecond or so chip rate is a thousand feet more or less.
Jun 17 21:49:09 <Elrond> Yeah.
Jun 17 21:49:13 <SpeedEvil> You need to get phase to within a very small part of a degree to get .5m or so resolution.
Jun 17 21:49:33 <Elrond> BTW: Accurate time: I have not been able to see any 50Hz at all. Complete different story.
Jun 17 21:49:49 <SpeedEvil> That will come out elsewhere.
Jun 17 21:50:28 <SpeedEvil> It will come out in the correlators, but putting it in every measurement would generally be silly
Jun 17 21:53:09 <pH5> would the GPS SPS signal specification at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm be a good read to catch up with your knowledge a bit? I'm losing track of what you're talking about all the time :)
Jun 17 21:53:12 <SpeedEvil> Two ways spring to mind. Obviously you don't download the bits one by one every 20ms.
Jun 17 21:53:26 <SpeedEvil> pH5: not really - it's horrible.
Jun 17 21:53:43 <pH5> any tips?
Jun 17 21:53:47 <SpeedEvil> http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html
Jun 17 21:53:50 <SpeedEvil> is quite OK
Jun 17 21:53:55 <SpeedEvil> And about as simple as it gets.
Jun 17 21:54:31 <Vegar> do you have an SVN/CVS repository for your current work?
Jun 17 21:54:37 <Elrond> Is that link already on the wiki?
Jun 17 21:54:41 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 17 21:54:49 <Elrond> Good. :)
Jun 17 21:54:56 <SpeedEvil> Not the official spec
Jun 17 21:55:10 <Elrond> Vegar - Not really. This is all wild hacking.
Jun 17 21:55:18 <Vegar> ok
Jun 17 21:55:28 <Elrond> Vegar - My python sources are a complete hack.
Jun 17 21:55:48 <Vegar> do they only exist on your localhost?
Jun 17 21:56:10 <Elrond> I've started to split out "neo1973 gps-power-manangement" into its own .py, but that's about it. ;o)
Jun 17 21:56:32 <Elrond> Vegar - They exist on the phone and as backup on my home desktop. ;)
Jun 17 21:56:46 <Vegar> ok
Jun 17 21:57:18 <Vegar> just wondering
Jun 17 21:59:35 <Elrond> We could start a repos on any of those free hosting projects. But I'd currently only upload neo1973.py and unhexify.py. ;o)  (while the later just turns "aa bb cc dd  12" into the right string.  (I couldn't get me into always having to put \x everywhere. ;o) )
Jun 17 22:02:05 <Elrond> Vegar - Having the complete stuff on the phone is nice. A friend and I were in the middle of nowhere (okay, there was a nice castle in the next village). With a laptop. ;-)  We put the phone (and his sirf3 / a lended garmin navi)  on the top of the car and had fun sitting inside and hacking. ;o=
Jun 17 22:02:31 <Vegar> hehe
Jun 17 22:02:32 <Vegar> cool
Jun 17 22:03:20 <Vegar> doesn't the GPS work inside the car?
Jun 17 22:03:41 <Elrond> It probably would. But I wanted _very_ good signals.
Jun 17 22:04:20 <Elrond> ... in the hope, that I could distinguish signals from satelites, which can't be seen at all (other side of world) and sats with good signal.
Jun 17 22:04:57 <Vegar> ok
Jun 17 22:05:00 <Vegar> wait..
Jun 17 22:05:13 <pH5> SpeedEvil: ok, I guess I'll have to get over that horrible background color after all.
Jun 17 22:05:15 <Vegar> is it possible to receive signals from satellites you can't see?
Jun 17 22:05:30 <Elrond> No. :-)
Jun 17 22:05:45 <Elrond> But the chip tries anyway.
Jun 17 22:06:06 <Elrond> And I want to be able to distinguish plain noise from real signals.
Jun 17 22:06:16 <miip> you must have good eyes to see those satellites ;)
Jun 17 22:06:37 <mjr> miip, he has a telescope, silly
Jun 17 22:06:48 <ewon> in a cruel twist of fate, my house is uniquely situated in that I have zero line of sight for satellite television, and there is no cable in my area.
Jun 17 22:06:53 <Elrond> miip - hehe. I'm just wondering, if one can see them using a good telescope. ;-)
Jun 17 22:07:23 <SpeedEvil> Yes - but they are not easy targets.
Jun 17 22:07:24 <miip> well if it has autotracking and can move really fast... maybe :)
Jun 17 22:07:34 <SpeedEvil> Fairly slowly
Jun 17 22:07:45 <SpeedEvil> The GPS birds are in 12 hour orbits.
Jun 17 22:07:53 <Hopscotch> Elrond: 20000km distance and 5m big...
Jun 17 22:07:57 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Mesh_Networking]]
Jun 17 22:07:59 <SpeedEvil> Interestingly, Iridium can be visible easily by the naked eye.
Jun 17 22:08:08 <Hopscotch> the iss as well
Jun 17 22:08:17 <Stephmw> high reflectivity?
Jun 17 22:08:17 <rwhitby> ewon: your IQ is probably 20 points higher because of that :-)
Jun 17 22:08:27 <Hopscotch> you have to wait for the moment where it is dark on the ground but the sun still lights the sats
Jun 17 22:08:28 <SpeedEvil> The solar cells are arranged in such a way on Iridium that they reflect light _brightly_ at the right time.
Jun 17 22:08:49 <SpeedEvil> ISS is just visible because it's a huge sort-of-reflective orbital pork-barrel.
Jun 17 22:09:06 <SpeedEvil> You don't usually get reflection off the solar panels.
Jun 17 22:09:38 <Elrond> So this was some "geek"-thingy from the iridium people?
Jun 17 22:09:58 <SpeedEvil> No - it's just the way the solar panels happen to be arranged and track the sun.
Jun 17 22:10:09 <SpeedEvil> You get bright reflections near dawn and dusk at the right times.
Jun 17 22:10:36 <Elrond> So they didn't arrange the panels specifically?
Jun 17 22:11:14 <SpeedEvil> Well - nobodies said they have, and there are reasons why it's a sensible solution.
Jun 17 22:11:30 <SpeedEvil> http://www.satobs.org/iridium.html
Jun 17 22:12:24 * ewon starts to think dist-upgrading to unstable was a suboptimal idea
Jun 17 22:13:37 <SpeedEvil> Oh - antennas, not solar panels. And 30 times brighter than venus at peak - daytime visible if you know where to look.
Jun 17 22:14:41 <Elrond> Wee, fun.
Jun 17 22:24:09 <cjb> hm, I must be dumb.  trying to get the GPS to work, but gllin doesn't seem to be outputting anything.
Jun 17 22:25:15 * Elrond has no idea about gllin. ;-)
Jun 17 22:25:27 <LuitvD> 'night
Jun 17 22:25:36 <cjb> it likes saying:
Jun 17 22:25:38 <cjb> Stack size 8864 bytes (9 KB)
Jun 17 22:25:41 <cjb> and then quitting
Jun 17 22:27:45 <cjb> haha
Jun 17 22:27:47 <cjb> *** glibc detected *** gllin: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x001ca190 ***
Jun 17 22:31:34 <baird> I wrote a program (http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cjb/Code/predict1.shar) for tracking satellites visually once.. That could be a cool application for the phone. :)
Jun 17 22:32:51 <baird> www.heavens-above.com does Iridum flash predictions and etc.
Jun 17 22:40:32 <Elrond> Hmm, any good link, where one can see the location of the gps sats for a given location?
Jun 17 22:41:10 <SpeedEvil> heavens-above
Jun 17 22:41:19 <SpeedEvil> I think will give positions for a subset
Jun 17 22:41:20 <SpeedEvil> or
Jun 17 22:41:35 <SpeedEvil> if gpgll puts out GPSSV (?) sentances
Jun 17 22:41:55 <SpeedEvil> they have degrees and elevations of each sat
Jun 17 22:42:04 <Elrond> You mean gllin?
Jun 17 22:42:12 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 17 22:42:57 <SpeedEvil> I was suggesting bypassing the stomach entirely :)
Jun 17 22:42:59 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jun 17 22:43:03 <Elrond> Hmm, I had hoped for a public service, using the almanac or so...
Jun 17 22:43:12 <cjb> hm, gllin told me something:
Jun 17 22:43:14 <cjb> $PGLOR,RID,GLL,182,5,023*4D
Jun 17 22:43:20 <cjb> that doesn't look like nmea to me, though?
Jun 17 22:43:39 <Elrond> Not like normal nmea.
Jun 17 22:43:44 <CoreDump|afk> my gllin produces NMEA just fine
Jun 17 22:44:12 <cjb> CoreDump|afk: what do you do to get it running?
Jun 17 22:44:21 <CoreDump|afk> hmmm
Jun 17 22:44:30 <cjb> I just ran "gllin" and it seems to be hanging.
Jun 17 22:44:34 <CoreDump|afk> it did that like two month ago 
Jun 17 22:44:55 <CoreDump|afk> you need to give it an option to use a logfile IIRC
Jun 17 22:45:00 <cjb> also, what happens when you do gllin -low 5?
Jun 17 22:45:06 <cjb> oh, any idea what that is?
Jun 17 22:45:23 <cjb> woot!
Jun 17 22:45:28 <cjb> it took about five minutes, but:
Jun 17 22:45:35 <cjb> $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78
Jun 17 22:45:35 <cjb> $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,1.1,0.5,1.0*34
Jun 17 22:45:35 <cjb> $PGLOR,IGR,91.18,7,147274734,4,4,0,8*39
Jun 17 22:45:41 <cjb> someone want to tell me where I am?  :)
Jun 17 22:46:20 <thresh> you're definitely on Earth
Jun 17 22:46:26 <cjb> bonus.
Jun 17 22:46:30 <CoreDump|afk> =)
Jun 17 22:46:56 * CoreDump|afk is off to bed
Jun 17 22:46:58 <SpeedEvil> GPRMC is the recommended minimum sentance
Jun 17 22:47:09 <cjb> what does that mean?
Jun 17 22:47:10 <SpeedEvil> when you have a real signal, it'll fill in between the ,'s
Jun 17 22:47:30 <cjb> oh, I don't have a real signal?
Jun 17 22:47:38 <SpeedEvil> $GPRMC,151820,A,5613.005,N,00306.715,W,000.0,360.0,120407,006.5,W*7D
Jun 17 22:47:40 <SpeedEvil> forex
Jun 17 22:47:56 <cjb> so, what do I have?  
Jun 17 22:48:45 <SpeedEvil> That is: time, ?, decimal latitude, N/S, decimal longitude (in hundredths of a degree), heading, date, speed over ground
Jun 17 22:48:50 <SpeedEvil> Or somethign
Jun 17 22:49:00 <SpeedEvil> cjb: are you indoors?
Jun 17 22:49:03 <cjb> yes
Jun 17 22:49:12 <SpeedEvil> Can you move the neo close to a window?
Jun 17 22:49:50 <cjb> only if I unplug it from usb :) I got another reading:
Jun 17 22:49:59 <cjb> $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,0.5,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0000099,*54
Jun 17 22:49:59 <cjb> $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78
Jun 17 22:49:59 <cjb> $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,1.1,0.5,1.0*34
Jun 17 22:49:59 <cjb> $PGLOR,IGR,81.8,7,71514,0,4*00
Jun 17 22:50:20 <SpeedEvil> That's still not a valid reading.
Jun 17 22:50:26 <SpeedEvil> Look at teh $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78
Jun 17 22:50:27 <SpeedEvil> line
Jun 17 22:50:34 <SpeedEvil> and compare with the one I pasted
Jun 17 22:50:55 <SpeedEvil> I think the third field is a validity indicator
Jun 17 22:50:56 <cjb> righto.
Jun 17 22:51:09 <SpeedEvil> It'll go to 'A' and the data gets filled in if it's got a lock
Jun 17 22:51:31 <SpeedEvil> Elrond: and I meant $GPGSV,3,1,11,02,51,269,51,04,45,202,47,06,11,332,00,07,07,344,00*75
Jun 17 22:51:56 <SpeedEvil> this is satellite positions and signal strengths
Jun 17 22:53:24 <SpeedEvil> cjb: disconnecting, and moving it near a window for 1 minute should give you a position.
Jun 17 22:54:46 <cjb> ok.  since the file is a named pipe, though, I won't see it if I'm disconnected.  I'll set up logging first.
Jun 17 22:57:07 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - :-)
Jun 17 23:36:31 <cjb> hmph, still no gps lock, by the window.
Jun 17 23:37:28 <aevin> you're on the wrong planet?
Jun 17 23:38:32 <cjb> I hate it when that happens.
Jun 17 23:41:20 <SpeedEvil> Odd.
Jun 17 23:41:33 <SpeedEvil> Is it a 'normal' glass window?
Jun 17 23:41:36 <SpeedEvil> Or a coated one.
Jun 17 23:41:57 <cjb> we're on the 11th floor of an office building, so it's probably pretty reinforced.
Jun 17 23:42:09 <SpeedEvil> And it's probably got solar reflective stuff on it.
Jun 17 23:42:18 <cjb> I'll go wander around outside with an OLPC and openmoko, and see how many strange looks I get.
Jun 17 23:42:20 <SpeedEvil> Which may well reflect all microwaves too.
Jun 17 23:42:28 <SpeedEvil> Do you get mobile phone signal?
Jun 17 23:42:32 <cjb> yup.
Jun 17 23:42:45 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Dunno.
Jun 18 00:07:57 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Jun 18 00:09:39 <cjb> gah, the openmoko X terminal doesn't wrap lines!
Jun 18 00:09:45 <cjb> so I have half a GPS reading :)
Jun 18 00:09:53 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 18 00:10:06 <SpeedEvil> Copy paste may take it
Jun 18 00:10:29 <SpeedEvil> If it'll do that - dunno
Jun 18 00:10:44 <cjb> nope
Jun 18 00:19:57 <cjb> $GPRMC,001701.68,A,4221.746559,N,07105.124072,W,000.0,000.0,180607,,,A*45
Jun 18 00:23:56 <cjb> .. seems to be in the middle of the mediterrean.  ;-)
Jun 18 00:25:41 <SpeedEvil> I assume it's bogus then?
Jun 18 00:26:16 <cjb> I think I'm just decoding it incorrectly.
Jun 18 00:27:13 <SpeedEvil> That's 42 north, 71 degrees west
Jun 18 00:27:13 <cjb> here's a full stanza:  http://pastebin.ca/573125
Jun 18 00:27:27 <cjb> is there a web form or something that'll decode it for me, or a unix app?
Jun 18 00:33:29 <cjb> oh!  -71.
Jun 18 00:33:43 <cjb> I bet the leading 0 means "-" or something? 
Jun 18 00:35:19 <cjb> huh, it's close but not exact.
Jun 18 00:36:19 <SpeedEvil> No - the trailing 'W' means 'west'
Jun 18 00:36:26 <cjb> ok
Jun 18 00:36:29 <cjb> why's the leading 0 there?
Jun 18 00:36:32 <SpeedEvil> And it's decimal degrees
Jun 18 00:36:35 <SpeedEvil> fixed width
Jun 18 00:36:42 <SpeedEvil> goes to 18000
Jun 18 00:36:50 <cjb> righto.
Jun 18 00:37:29 <cjb> so, what's the full lat/long?  I tried:
Jun 18 00:37:46 <cjb> Latitude: 42.2174655
Jun 18 00:37:46 <cjb> Longitude: -71.0512407
Jun 18 00:38:24 <cjb> and that's maybe 20 miles away
Jun 18 00:39:31 <SpeedEvil> 4221 is 42.21 degrees, or 42 degrees (21/.6) = 35 min north 
Jun 18 00:39:45 <cjb> oh!
Jun 18 00:39:47 <cjb> that explains it.
Jun 18 00:41:14 <cjb> Thanks, I'm very new at GPS.  :)
Jun 18 00:42:31 <cjb> I guess I'm having trouble finding a mapping site that lets me enter that much precision.
Jun 18 00:43:22 <SpeedEvil> Middle of boston?
Jun 18 00:43:40 <SpeedEvil> Enter 42.35n 71.08w into google-maps
Jun 18 00:44:15 <cjb> nope, that's a few km away.
Jun 18 00:44:44 <cjb> on that google map, I'm just north of the river, near the Main and Vassar labels.
Jun 18 00:44:51 <balrog-kun> i wonder if there's a way to use the cdbot2's google features to translate from coordinates to city names
Jun 18 00:47:54 <SpeedEvil> Go into google map
Jun 18 00:48:01 <SpeedEvil> click 'link this location'
Jun 18 00:48:05 <SpeedEvil> go to the URL
Jun 18 00:48:14 <SpeedEvil> you'll see a ll= pair of numbers
Jun 18 00:48:30 <SpeedEvil> paste the numbers from the GPS here after moving the decimal point
Jun 18 00:48:35 <SpeedEvil> two points left
Jun 18 00:49:02 <cjb> hm, just a q=, no ll=, on that last url.
Jun 18 00:49:13 <cjb> wait, I got one.
Jun 18 00:55:56 <SpeedEvil> Ok - I guess I may have gotten somthing wrong - unless you're near a cemetary
Jun 18 00:57:32 <cjb> nope. :)
Jun 18 00:57:53 <SpeedEvil> Ah - right, sorry.
Jun 18 00:57:56 <cjb> I'm at (google maps): 1 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142
Jun 18 00:57:58 <SpeedEvil> That is not decimal degrees
Jun 18 00:58:17 <SpeedEvil> 4221 is 42 degrees, 21 minutes
Jun 18 00:58:24 <cjb> yeah
Jun 18 00:58:36 <SpeedEvil> 3600)+(m*60)+s,ndeg,nmin,wdeg,wmin, ndeg+(nmin/60),wdeg+(wmin/60), $10,$9,herr+0
Jun 18 00:58:38 <SpeedEvil> ,err+0,v  
Jun 18 00:58:45 <SpeedEvil>  /GPRMC/{print substr($10,1,2)"/"substr($10,3,2)"/"substr($10,5,2), h":"m":"s,(h*
Jun 18 00:58:45 <SpeedEvil> 3600)+(m*60)+s,ndeg,nmin,wdeg,wmin, ndeg+(nmin/60),wdeg+(wmin/60), $10,$9,herr+0
Jun 18 00:58:46 <SpeedEvil> ,err+0,v 
Jun 18 00:59:12 <SpeedEvil> Err - no
Jun 18 00:59:28 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm too tired for this.
Jun 18 01:00:06 <SpeedEvil> 4221.4444 is 42 degrees 21.4444 degrees
Jun 18 01:00:21 <cjb> can I plot that with Google?  I think I need the extra precision; mapquest lets me plot deg/min/sec, but only two digits of sec.
Jun 18 01:00:29 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 18 01:00:31 <cjb> no problem, you're doing better than I am :)
Jun 18 01:00:33 <SpeedEvil> but you need to convert
Jun 18 01:00:35 <cjb> k
Jun 18 01:00:45 <SpeedEvil> 4221.746559,N,07105.124072,W
Jun 18 01:01:28 <SpeedEvil> 21.746559/.6 = 36.244265
Jun 18 01:01:59 <SpeedEvil> So the decimal degree figure is 42.36.244265
Jun 18 01:02:04 <SpeedEvil> err - without the extra .
Jun 18 01:02:34 <SpeedEvil>  60 is more sensible :)
Jun 18 01:02:38 <SpeedEvil>  /60
Jun 18 01:02:42 <cjb> :)
Jun 18 01:05:10 <SpeedEvil> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&om=0&ll=42.362442650,-71.0854012&spn=0.007779,0.01914&z=15 look more like it?
Jun 18 01:05:43 <cjb> perfect :)
Jun 18 01:05:56 <cjb> thanks!
Jun 18 01:06:05 <SpeedEvil> Glad it's working at least.
Jun 18 01:06:29 <SpeedEvil> My nice scripts all got eaten by a laptop drive.
Jun 18 01:06:38 <cjb> yeah :) It took a long time to lock, but it looks like it was spitting out new reads every two seconds after that.
Jun 18 01:06:40 <SpeedEvil> car-gps logging ones
Jun 18 01:06:44 <cjb> Aw, suck.
Jun 18 01:06:55 <SpeedEvil> I needed to rewrite them anyway.
Jun 18 01:07:06 <SpeedEvil> Part of them was doing real-time signal processing in awk.
Jun 18 01:07:11 <cjb> :)
Jun 18 01:07:21 <SpeedEvil> sox|hexdump
Jun 18 01:07:32 <SpeedEvil> (logging data from injectors)
Jun 18 01:07:34 <cjb> wacky.  what was the signal?
Jun 18 01:07:39 <cjb> ah, neat.
Jun 18 01:09:24 <SpeedEvil> One of the apps I'm planning on 'porting' (it has an X version) is an engine tuner for an open-source ECU
Jun 18 01:21:22 <cjb> hmph, still no mic working on p1.
Jun 18 01:21:52 <[lankester]> cjb: does p1 is a usable phone
Jun 18 01:21:59 <[lankester]> or a beta one 
Jun 18 01:22:17 <cjb> right now, more beta than useful.
Jun 18 01:22:21 <cjb> but all the hardware clearly works.
Jun 18 01:22:28 <[lankester]> ohh ok
Jun 18 01:22:28 <cjb> except the microphone, here :)
Jun 18 01:22:31 <[lankester]> great
Jun 18 01:22:38 <[lankester]> so when new firmware
Jun 18 01:22:46 <[lankester]> will be available .. it will be usable !
Jun 18 01:22:50 <cjb> yeah.
Jun 18 01:22:56 <[lankester]> ok thx a lot
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 18 02:59:57 2007