**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 26 02:59:57 2007 Jun 26 03:03:10 counter? Jun 26 03:03:11 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 16:28:22 (0.686±0.7 days) (1591;240) Jun 26 03:42:13 no news :-( Jun 26 03:43:24 hi, i'm wondering anyone is working on Webkit on OpenMoko Jun 26 03:57:02 cninja: yes, zecke works on it Jun 26 03:58:43 having nice phone and not being able to hack on it is like gardener having nice garden and not being able to do any gardening Jun 26 03:59:46 true, things take time to develop Jun 26 04:01:42 * aloril bets any good gardener would greatly prefer nice place for garden with nice ground, etc.., nice collection of available seedlings, gardening tools, etc.. and full freedom to do whatever (s)he wants Jun 26 04:02:03 over nice ready made garden where (s)he can't do anything Jun 26 04:02:28 OpenMoko dev can run under QEMU for now right :) ? Jun 26 04:03:07 yes Jun 26 04:03:18 i personally want to add a 'gps' tracker code for OpenMoko. Jun 26 04:04:32 And grab map data off Google Maps, showing the mapdata in WebKit. So i would be interested to help porting Webkit too Jun 26 04:07:07 there are and/or has been persons that see iPhone as option: above 'parable' is for you to hopefully show why Neo1973 is so big deal compared to iPhone for hackers/developers/etc.. Jun 26 04:08:13 you might be happy with nice garden and not being able to do anything on it: fine for you then ;-) Jun 26 04:08:29 no, don't get it wrong.... Jun 26 04:08:48 cninja: not talking about you, I was referring to yesterday discussion ;-) Jun 26 04:09:16 yes. That is exactly why OpenMoko should be better than iPhone Jun 26 04:29:49 its almost like everyone is holding breath waiting for announcement ;-) Jun 26 04:33:20 * rwhitby predicts that it's at least 3 days away. Jun 26 04:46:04 are we all hackers waiting for the device to write cool programs for it? Jun 26 04:46:11 or are we all mainly consumers? Jun 26 04:51:05 ...mostly waiting for GTA02 for WiFi, for me.. Jun 26 04:51:15 ...and partly write cool programs. and use SSH. Jun 26 04:51:31 yeah, i want to have a device with wifi, also Jun 26 04:51:43 but i'd really like to do some dev work on it Jun 26 04:58:36 Neo1973 doesn't really make sense for consumers now Jun 26 04:59:31 to use above metaphor: garden has not yet been made ;-) Jun 26 05:04:13 well.. so it is a good that mostly the people wanting a device now are actual devs Jun 26 05:05:21 what's the difference between the usbtty console and serial console? Jun 26 05:05:35 yes, I hope so (that most consumers are postponing purchase, at least until developers have gotten their device) Jun 26 05:11:59 at the uboot prompt, if In, Out and Err are set to serial, how do you send input to the phone? Jun 26 05:13:09 buying it after a week of it being available (assuming they have not sold out and there is no further few weeks delay ..) and knowing software state and still being consumer: that is of course fine Jun 26 05:14:25 what I mean is it doesn't make sense to buy it immediately if its likely you will but it to drawer to wait for better software, better let those buy who will make software better for it immediately ;-) Jun 26 05:15:09 (to repeat: above line is only in case demand is bigger than supply) Jun 26 05:15:44 is there a dev channel? Jun 26 05:17:11 there is closed dev channel for core team, but I think this is dev channel too + chat channel Jun 26 05:17:28 And there's several dev mailinglists Jun 26 05:17:45 ok Jun 26 05:17:45 aloril, do you think there would be an objection to a qemu-neo1973 package? Jun 26 05:17:54 (for fedora/RHEL/Centos) Jun 26 05:18:27 daMaestro: I'm wrong person to ask, but I don't see why there would be objection ;-) Jun 26 05:18:33 ok Jun 26 05:18:43 it's on my list.. and may get done tonight Jun 26 05:18:44 daMaestro: looks like good idea for me Jun 26 05:18:45 i dunno yet Jun 26 05:19:15 daMaestro: I assume they'd like it. :) Jun 26 05:19:26 what is really needed is something: "1) paste these commands and you have all needed installed" Jun 26 05:19:47 2) do these steps and you got your own hello world program in qemu image Jun 26 05:20:14 yeah.. i'd like to just yum install qemu-neo1973 and be done with it Jun 26 05:20:14 lol Jun 26 05:20:34 1-2 being easy==a lot more people trying and potentially starting some cool/useful program Jun 26 05:20:57 i assume there would also need to be some sort of software package? Jun 26 05:21:11 a.k.a openmoko Jun 26 05:21:43 at least image, but for development you want some way to install your own programs (== hello world example) Jun 26 05:22:40 i cannot get qemu working due GCC 4 Jun 26 05:22:52 that means openmoko development environment (== something that is result from running MokoMakefile, but pruned of tmp stuff, etc..) Jun 26 05:23:01 Mortimus, you just use the compat lib Jun 26 05:23:09 if you are talking about on, for example, fedora Jun 26 05:23:40 no im running gentoo Jun 26 05:24:16 Mortimus: I'm on gentoo too. Install gcc-3.4 and then compile qemu Jun 26 05:24:27 * CM is on ~amd64 Jun 26 05:24:55 sweet im on amd64 with too many packages ~amd64 Jun 26 05:25:13 do i have to keep gcc-3.4? Jun 26 05:25:25 after compiling it Jun 26 05:25:27 Yes, but it's no problem Jun 26 05:25:38 Just use gcc-config to switch compiler Jun 26 05:26:10 I think qemu will use gcc 3.x automaticly if it's available. Jun 26 05:26:14 easy enough, I do that when I get to my own computer Jun 26 05:26:22 it has to use gcc-3.4 Jun 26 05:26:53 It's possible to get it to compile with 4.x, but it's not really working afterwards ;) Jun 26 05:27:25 i tried with 4.x it cant even get past compile Jun 26 05:28:14 There is a way to do it in the gentoo wiki, but it says everywhere, "don't do this, install 3.4.6" Jun 26 05:29:06 daMaestro: for dev environment there are 2 cases: 1) develop as i386 binary (or whatever native platform is): often easier than qemu/device to do development this way Jun 26 05:29:28 2) then arm binary for qemu/device to final testing Jun 26 05:31:46 ok Jun 26 05:33:08 for case 1) you need just openmoko libraries (other stuff is basically same (except gtk is older at the moment)) Jun 26 05:33:39 2) of course needs cross compiling environment Jun 26 05:44:26 * daMaestro investigates more how long it will take to make a package Jun 26 05:44:42 if everything builds, it seems it should be quick.. maybe a patch or two to the makefiles Jun 26 05:51:33 hmm ... how do i checkout a certain revision aloril ? Jun 26 05:51:42 i'm more of a git nut then svn Jun 26 05:53:15 svn checkout -r .. ? Jun 26 05:58:24 sure, thanks Jun 26 05:58:44 i'm just not up on svn commands.. and I am actually working on other stuff.. Jun 26 06:17:03 good morning Jun 26 06:36:57 svn commands are mostly cvs commands Jun 26 06:39:27 yeah.. more or less.. i'm just distracted Jun 26 06:39:49 if you are referring to my query about how to checkout a certain revision Jun 26 07:02:17 hmm well anyone willing to tell me what needs to be done for qemu-neo1973 to be built on gcc3.4? Jun 26 07:04:12 http://dev.damaestro.us/openmoko.build.log Jun 26 07:07:28 morning Jun 26 07:10:25 it is gcc 3.4.6* Jun 26 07:26:04 daMaestro try caslling configure with this: --target-list=arm-softmmu Jun 26 07:27:21 also remove those special CFLAGS.. cannot work if you force your compiler to do things which it should not do or cannot Jun 26 07:31:02 roh, ok.. i'll add the --target ... what CFLAGS need to be removed? Jun 26 07:31:13 roh, i'm packaging an rpm right now Jun 26 07:31:13 lol Jun 26 07:31:39 daMaestro just do not set any CFLAGS Jun 26 07:31:52 counter Jun 26 07:31:53 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 14:14:01 (0.593±0.6 days) (1592;240) Jun 26 07:31:54 the makefile would set special ones if wanted or needed. Jun 26 07:32:42 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jun 26 07:33:32 especially qemu needs its binarys compiled 'standard' since its neccessarsy for dyngen to work. thats also what is generating the dependency on gcc3, since gcc4 binarys are different enough for dyngen not to work anymore Jun 26 08:07:41 counter Jun 26 08:07:42 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 13:56:07 (0.581±0.6 days) (1593;240) Jun 26 08:50:05 hi there. Jun 26 08:50:10 hello Jun 26 08:51:34 morning Jun 26 08:51:56 * CM is starting to get tired of FIC Jun 26 08:53:10 about 31.5 left of week Jun 26 08:53:30 s/31.5/31.5h/ Jun 26 08:53:30 aloril meant: about 31.5h left of week Jun 26 08:53:43 so, any bets about the arrival of GTA02? Jun 26 08:53:58 I guess about a year Jun 26 08:54:23 But I hope christmas :) Jun 26 09:03:40 0.5year +-3 months Jun 26 09:05:10 hmm Jun 26 09:05:22 ...sadly, I think a phone without WiFi may be a non-starter for me. Jun 26 09:13:07 especially considering GSM works over wifi Jun 26 09:13:10 oh, wait.... Jun 26 09:16:13 koen ;) Jun 26 09:19:09 Hello, everyone Jun 26 09:19:14 hi pavel Jun 26 09:19:29 pavelm: I have a question related to suspend in kernel Jun 26 09:21:31 pavelm: I use cryptosetup (LUKS) with LVM. swap is on lvm. how to suspend/resume to disk with this setup? s2disk suspends, hibernate suspends, echo disk>/sys/power/state suspends. but I cant resume Jun 26 09:21:36 morning pavel Jun 26 09:23:12 hrw you cant. either you would have crypted swap with random key on bootup (would overwrite the suspend to disk memoryimage on boot) or your cryptosetup is senseless since an attacker could just pull your ram from the suspend to disk image in swap Jun 26 09:23:49 i use the same, just no lvm in between Jun 26 09:24:13 crap Jun 26 09:24:15 lvm needs more fiddeling in the ramdisk Jun 26 09:24:28 hi, hrw Jun 26 09:25:11 ummm... try it w/o lvm/cryptoloop, first Jun 26 09:25:35 hrw: setup for encrypted stuff is non-trivial Jun 26 09:26:30 hrw: echo disk can't reasonably work, s2disk could in theory Jun 26 09:27:32 pavelm how? should s2disk crypt the memorydump on suspend and decrypt on resume and ask for a special key? Jun 26 09:27:55 roh: s2disk can do rsa encryption, yes. Jun 26 09:29:03 pavelm: I do not have another hdd to test w/o lvm/crypto Jun 26 09:30:36 hrw: usb stick :-) Jun 26 09:30:46 hrr Jun 26 09:31:39 hrw: so at least verify the disk is available/unlocked at time resume is ran from initrd Jun 26 09:33:45 sure Jun 26 09:53:55 hrw: plus I remember we had some problems with lvm :-) Jun 26 09:53:58 has anybody thought of exporting the openmoko screen through vnc? then you could operate it through your pc while at work or at home.. Jun 26 09:55:43 I would have thought a VNC *client* would be more useful Jun 26 09:56:11 openmoko: 03njp * r2345 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-dialer_svn.bb: Fixed to include the dbus service file in the package Jun 26 09:56:51 it would be useful when outside office or home, sure Jun 26 09:59:00 xkr: about everyone thought of _that_. Jun 26 10:03:11 pavelm, :) Jun 26 10:15:33 is there any progress in openmoko kernel patches merge? Jun 26 10:19:21 counter Jun 26 10:19:22 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 12:50:17 (0.535±0.5 days) (1593;238) Jun 26 10:23:24 c'mon, make that anouncement so I can go sleep :p Jun 26 10:25:47 greed :D Jun 26 10:38:27 anyone working on fedora? Jun 26 10:38:48 i have some packages to test for qemu-neo1973 ... and just don't have time at the exact moment Jun 26 10:54:22 hi, i'm running windows atm :( where can i find the latest images so i can run qemu, i've downloaded the win binary but the images that it comes with are quite old Jun 26 11:01:46 On encryption of suspend images - you can suspend to an encrypted partition. Jun 26 11:02:05 speed: If you know how to do it, tell to hrw :-) Jun 26 11:02:10 If you use encrypted swap. Jun 26 11:02:30 Use encrypted swap, and it mostly just works Jun 26 11:02:47 you then need to setup the swap right on the initfs Jun 26 11:02:58 with the right key, then say 'resume' Jun 26 11:25:07 <_llll_> counter? Jun 26 11:25:07 "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 12:17:24 (0.512±0.5 days) (1594;239) Jun 26 11:27:17 hi zecke Jun 26 11:27:27 zecke: math test done? Jun 26 11:27:47 hmm, I can only lose when I answer Jun 26 11:28:09 it is time to study succesor of (mafi II) Jun 26 11:28:24 zecke: I don't mean if it went well just if it is finished. Jun 26 11:28:39 zecke: So you can came back to normal coding life. ;) Jun 26 11:29:32 stefan_schmidt: well, I will code this week and then start studying for MaFi III :} Jun 26 11:30:03 zecke: hmm, sounds not like fun Jun 26 11:30:21 stefan_schmidt: don't hit me, I like math Jun 26 11:30:38 zecke: and guadec? Jun 26 11:30:49 zecke: /me too, but having the study pressure makes it unnice again. Jun 26 11:32:24 stefan_schmidt: as you have worked on the panel_applet. Is there any reason moko_panel_system_init is declared but not defined? Jun 26 11:33:46 zecke: In mokoui you mean? I think some parts are just not finished Jun 26 11:34:38 stefan_schmidt: yes Jun 26 11:35:26 anyone using fedora and are willing to test a qemu-neo1973 package i just did? :-)) Jun 26 11:36:10 daMaestro, why would you need somebody with fedora to test? Jun 26 11:36:25 it is a package for fedora Jun 26 11:36:45 i just don't have time at the current moment; just wondered if anyone wanted to Jun 26 11:36:46 lol Jun 26 11:36:52 daMaestro, ah I got this wrong sorry. Though you were looking out for somebody to test your qemu image Jun 26 11:37:07 nope, basically an rpm Jun 26 11:37:20 once i test it, etc.. i'll stick it in the fedora repos Jun 26 11:37:39 should get us a wider dev base Jun 26 11:37:49 stefan_schmidt: but besides that 100% of openmoko-ui is covered by python Jun 26 11:38:19 stefan_schmidt: who is loading the applets? which part of matchbox is doing that? Jun 26 11:39:15 zecke: matchbox-panel loads the shared libraries AFAIK Jun 26 11:43:20 ~seem mickeyl Jun 26 11:43:23 ~seen mickeyl Jun 26 11:43:57 mickeyl was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 15d 19h 2m 8s ago, saying: 'k'. Jun 26 11:45:09 zecke: He is pumping the water out of his office. :( Jun 26 11:46:24 he should get a pair of gills and a wetsuit instead Jun 26 11:46:47 zecke: And swimming pc stuff. :) Jun 26 11:47:18 a set of rugged-neos Jun 26 11:49:25 and few nice looking girls which will take care of removing water Jun 26 11:50:03 forget the nice girls, I'll take the rugged neos =) Jun 26 11:51:09 * CoreDump|afk is off to work Jun 26 11:53:39 stefan_schmidt: OT: Do we have a data-mining site about german politicians somewhere? I was schocked to see Wolfgang Clements current position Jun 26 11:54:35 zecke: No idea. Perhaps time to start one? Jun 26 11:54:50 * stefan_schmidt plays with JTAG on his EZX phones right now. Jun 26 11:55:14 stefan_schmidt: right Jun 26 12:06:56 who is wolf clements? Jun 26 12:07:33 all articles seems to be in german Jun 26 12:08:30 ynezz: he was a ministry of slavery, aeh labor and introduced a couple of laws allowing "temp-work" and now he is in the board of directors in such a company Jun 26 12:11:02 counter Jun 26 12:11:02 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 11:54:27 (0.496±0.5 days) (1595;239) Jun 26 12:48:27 I'm having a bit of a problem with bitbake... it seems to have downloaded a corrupted source file, so I innocently deleted and hoped it would download again, but of course that's not how it works... how do I force it to download again? Jun 26 12:48:27 lalo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 26 12:49:13 heh, neat Jun 26 12:49:43 Auto-trigger for a new nick on the channel with a question Jun 26 12:50:01 yes, neat Jun 26 12:50:16 I should probably adopt the idea on a few other channels ;-) Jun 26 12:50:23 lalo: Ask koen about the bitbake thing. I've only used the Moko makefile Jun 26 12:50:56 wifi? Jun 26 12:50:57 P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) Jun 26 12:51:06 CM: I don't know how to debug problems with an obsolete, hacked copy of bitbake Jun 26 12:51:08 lalo: you should be able to remove the source file (and it's md5 file) from the downloads directory Jun 26 12:51:10 but the moko makefile uses bitbake, too :-P in fact I was using the moko makefile Jun 26 12:51:21 then you need to remove the corresponding stamp file Jun 26 12:51:29 aha! that was the missing piece Jun 26 12:51:34 * lalo goes look for the stamp file Jun 26 12:51:39 * rwhitby loves how everyone else dodges the actual question by talking about unrelated things Jun 26 12:52:35 rwhitby: I didn't know about the stamp thing, but now I do. :) Jun 26 12:53:11 that worked! thanks :-D Jun 26 12:53:15 CM: but I know that you know that MokoMakefile just runs bitbake to do 98% of what it does :-) Jun 26 12:53:26 lalo: np Jun 26 13:27:35 I'm trying to run MokoMakeFile on an Ubuntu 7.04 box and can't get past the make setup part. It runs " ( svn co -r HEAD http://svn.openmoko.org/ openmoko ) and returns an error of "svn: REPORT request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default'" followed by "svn: REPORT of '/!svn/vcc/default': 200 OK (http://svn.openmoko.org)" Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Jun 26 13:33:57 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Gsmd/it]] [[Gsmd]] [[System_Developer/it]] Jun 26 13:34:15 Sarpedo1, try running it again Jun 26 13:34:58 Sarpedo1, not sure if this is the same, but i sometimes have some trouble connecting to svn server Jun 26 13:34:59 <_llll_> 'http://svn.openmoko.org/ openmoko' looks wrong, why the space? Jun 26 13:35:38 url is the server adress, openmoko the local destination adress, no? Jun 26 13:37:01 dirname, yes Jun 26 13:37:02 <_llll_> ah, right. but usually you would specify a path in http://svn.openmoko.org/ Jun 26 13:37:15 <_llll_> like you'd want to get just trunk/ (usually) Jun 26 13:39:37 _llll_: usually, but the OM core devs decided that the build procedure should check out trunk branches and tags, so mokomakefile complied with that build specification Jun 26 13:39:39 I've tried it several times, ran it yesterday a few times and just now. Jun 26 13:40:00 Sarpedo1, oh ok, don't know then... Jun 26 13:40:23 Sarpedo1: have you ever been able to check something out via http on that machine? sometimes it's a http proxy problem stopping subversion checkouts ... Jun 26 13:41:26 Haven't checked anything out via SVN before this that I know of. The first time I ran the MokoMakeFile it was doing 23000 certifications and 5000 revisions I believe. I think that part finished fine, not sure if that was checking out or not. Jun 26 13:41:42 that was getting the monotone database Jun 26 13:41:55 that svn co line works here Jun 26 13:41:59 Ah, alright. Jun 26 13:42:02 (just tried it manually then) Jun 26 13:42:16 I'll give that a shot and see what happens...probably the same results I'd guess though Jun 26 13:42:38 I am on a university network, so they might be blocking SVN for some very odd reason.... Jun 26 13:43:03 <_llll_> why do they want people to check out all the tags and branches? that sounds silly to me Jun 26 13:44:27 Not seeing any verbose command or the like for svn -co, any way to get it to print more? Jun 26 13:46:13 good morning! Jun 26 13:49:03 _llll_: yep, it's silly. it has provided some interesting insight in the developer branches though ;-) Jun 26 13:50:11 _llll_: svn is for use by the developers, too ;) Jun 26 13:50:27 they have set it up the way it is most comfortable for the developers Jun 26 13:50:47 Sarpedo1 you can try to change the http to https and see if that works Jun 26 13:50:50 <_llll_> do they not know what "svn switch" is for? Jun 26 13:51:34 how would it help? Jun 26 13:51:41 K, I just tried checking out the subversion code and that didn't fly either, so that's not a good sign :p Jun 26 13:52:12 <_llll_> well if you want to work on a branch, you just switch your wc, or part of that wc to the branch. no need to have the branch and trunk at the same time Jun 26 13:52:47 Thanks roh, it looks like https is working. Jun 26 13:53:00 hehe.. tricked the broken proxy Jun 26 14:05:39 counter Jun 26 14:05:39 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 10:57:08 (0.456±0.5 days) (1596;239) Jun 26 15:33:36 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/it]] Jun 26 15:38:16 Why did this "Sean" kill Contacts/02 ? Jun 26 15:46:59 counter Jun 26 15:47:00 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 10:06:28 (0.421±0.4 days) (1597;239) Jun 26 15:56:18 koen: do you want to have php gtk bindings? Jun 26 15:56:35 koen: or even openmoko bindings? I feel bored tonight Jun 26 15:56:42 nah Jun 26 15:56:51 I'd rather have a webkit that compiles :) Jun 26 15:57:05 good point Jun 26 15:57:13 Good night zecke Jun 26 16:03:37 the announce list has been empty since april. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/ Jun 26 16:03:50 sigh. Jun 26 16:04:04 at&t service plans were announced today. Jun 26 16:04:16 for the phone that shall not be named Jun 26 16:04:27 and they're ridiculously expensive. Jun 26 16:04:40 it sounds like it's not possible to own an iPhone for less than $2000 for two years Jun 26 16:05:14 Barking mad. Jun 26 16:05:24 ifanbois. Jun 26 16:05:42 i think its high but not outrageous given unlimited data. Jun 26 16:05:51 Is it subsidised? Jun 26 16:06:15 well, the phone is $500, the cheapest plan looks like $40-$50/mo. Jun 26 16:06:17 SpeedEvil: there's no way to know really Jun 26 16:06:17 Unlimited, truly? At what datarate? Jun 26 16:06:47 I can get 1G/mo for $14 or so US Jun 26 16:06:55 SpeedEvil: im not sure but by next Monday there will be a zillion reviews Jun 26 16:07:00 im buying an iphone. Jun 26 16:07:15 actually slashdot says you can have iphone with any plan Jun 26 16:07:19 and it is only $20 for the addon to my plan for unlimited data and visual mail, and 200 msges Jun 26 16:07:20 just need to sign up for 2 years Jun 26 16:07:52 buz: my understanding, according to the apple sign-up video, is that any existing plan you have, you can keep. plus the unlimited data extra cost. Jun 26 16:07:57 and atm i have a blackberry and it is $40 extra, so my bill will cut $20 Jun 26 16:08:04 don-o: yes. Jun 26 16:08:38 i wonder if sean manages to give us his promised news before the iphone launch Jun 26 16:08:54 what im waiting to hear is, if i get a $600 phone plus a $150 cancellation fee, does it still work as an iPod and wifi browser? Jun 26 16:09:23 I suspect not out of the box Jun 26 16:09:31 hrm.. im sure you can unlock it.. Jun 26 16:09:37 ? Jun 26 16:09:45 i am sure you can run linux on it Jun 26 16:09:50 heh Jun 26 16:10:05 http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/06/26/apple_says_iphone_can_be_activated_by_users_at_home.html Jun 26 16:10:18 seriously, openembedded based distro should owrk out of the box Jun 26 16:10:34 if you have a way to flash Jun 26 16:11:24 way to flash could be figured out Jun 26 16:12:24 there must be a way to flash the rom by shortcircuiting sme pints in the hardware Jun 26 16:13:20 you can't flash a ROM Jun 26 16:13:26 otherwise it isn't a ROM Jun 26 16:13:39 Read Only Memory, you know Jun 26 16:13:40 oops, yes you cant flash a rom Jun 26 16:13:59 i meant the memory Jun 26 16:17:25 * zecke is not impressed with the iphone video Jun 26 16:17:35 they barely need a multi touch to implement what they have Jun 26 16:18:16 the photo browser is a direct copy of 1999's Digital's Photo browser.. Jun 26 16:19:46 zecke: i put up the last patch in my patchset if you want to test the encoding bugfixes and svg support Jun 26 16:20:12 zecke: nothing about the iphone experience is innovative Jun 26 16:20:36 alp: awesome, I was busy with studying for my math exam. Is the headerCallback patch in? should I poke WildFox about it? Jun 26 16:21:13 Stephmw: nothing apple does is really innovative, they just add a sprinkle of 'just works' Jun 26 16:21:17 Of course it's innovative! It's got an 'i' in front of the name! Jun 26 16:21:40 SpeedEvil: ah yes, my bad Jun 26 16:24:27 zecke: all three are kind of interdependent, it crashes without all applied. #14061 #14059 #14058 (#14059 may need a bit more work before landing) Jun 26 16:25:08 (am always confusing this channel with #webkit when i see zecke talking about browsers, sorry for the OT) Jun 26 16:25:55 well it is ot :) Jun 26 16:26:56 alp, zecke: Indeed. We all waiting for zecke finishing the browser. Jun 26 16:27:12 zecke: I like to use it on GUADEC btw. ;) Jun 26 16:27:15 haha, GUI is not part of GSoC, I will charge extra ;) Jun 26 16:27:33 zecke: Give me your account. ;) Jun 26 16:27:54 stefan_schmidt: well, mickeyl witnessed how WebKit can make XQuartz crash Jun 26 16:28:05 zecke: At the moment you let alp work for your GSoC project. That means you can concentrate on the GUI.;) Jun 26 16:28:19 stefan_schmidt: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=libwebkitgdk-gdklauncher Jun 26 16:29:03 stefan_schmidt: well, that is mean Jun 26 16:29:54 heh Jun 26 16:37:15 stefan_schmidt: BTW: You can easily compile WebKit/Gtk. In fact buildhost-old is doing that everytime something changes Jun 26 17:15:55 Compiling busybox really bring my comp down.. At least 800mb ram out of 1gb, and 1.3gb swap used :/ Jun 26 17:19:24 strange, did you use -j N with a high N? Jun 26 17:19:45 CM: turn off the "compile everything at once" .config option Jun 26 17:19:56 koen: Ok Jun 26 17:20:11 it's a busybox optimization option Jun 26 17:20:26 which works fine on a headless dual opteron with 2GB of ram :) Jun 26 17:20:28 Was just running make qemu-* with the makefile Jun 26 17:20:37 Hehe, I wish Jun 26 17:21:44 * CM takes a look at ram prices Jun 26 18:15:44 if anyone has a moko OE ready, can you try a build of the latest svn of tasks? :) Jun 26 18:15:53 i want to check i haven't broken the moko port again Jun 26 18:40:39 counter Jun 26 18:40:40 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 08:39:38 (0.361±0.4 days) (1598;239) Jun 26 20:23:40 hey Jun 26 20:23:52 hi zecke Jun 26 20:28:27 neues savage2 video: http://savage2.s2games.com/movies/15_large_164.wmv Jun 26 20:28:40 mmm, evas would be fun to run on the phone :) Jun 26 20:29:42 erm, oops, wrong window :) Jun 26 20:29:58 I'm sorry Jun 26 20:31:05 thomasg__: I'm afraid we can never ever forgive such a serious mistake.. :P ;) Jun 26 20:31:14 ^^ Jun 26 20:31:40 well, I hope this game will run on a openmoko-phone in future :) Jun 26 20:32:01 Some good games would be cool, yes :) Jun 26 20:32:24 Doom! Jun 26 20:32:44 Though we need a stick Jun 26 20:32:47 but the opengl es accelerator in gta02 maybe is, erm, a bit too weak vor savage2 :) Jun 26 20:32:52 I'd like a good rougelike Jun 26 20:33:09 nethack! Jun 26 20:33:16 The screen can do 80*25 Jun 26 20:37:31 ~last rburton Jun 26 20:38:02 ~seen rburton Jun 26 20:38:08 rburton was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 2h 22m 15s ago, saying: 'i want to check i haven't broken the moko port again'. Jun 26 20:38:10 I always forget that command Jun 26 20:38:29 ~seen mickeyl Jun 26 20:38:31 mickeyl was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 16d 3h 56m 42s ago, saying: 'k'. Jun 26 20:38:32 Anyway, openmoko-tasks is broken again Jun 26 20:38:33 Are there any news about pushing openmoko patches into kernel? Jun 26 20:38:39 * CM goes to the bugzilla Jun 26 20:38:41 16d?! Jun 26 20:38:53 robtaylor: He's been using another nick Jun 26 20:39:00 While he was 2 weeks in .tw Jun 26 20:39:16 * pavelm wants to fix his 2GB SD card... and wonders what is the best kernel to use. Jun 26 20:39:43 ~seen pjz Jun 26 20:39:44 pjz is currently on #openmoko (4d 10h 31m 4s) #openezx (4d 10h 31m 4s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen pjz'. Jun 26 20:40:23 ~seen Elrond Jun 26 20:40:24 elrond is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 185 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen Elrond'. Jun 26 20:40:56 [20:15] rburton: if anyone has a moko OE ready, can you try a build of the latest svn of tasks? Jun 26 20:40:57 [20:15] rburton: i want to check i haven't broken the moko port again Jun 26 20:41:04 2.5 hours ago Jun 26 20:41:18 hehe Jun 26 20:41:20 koen: Yes, I knew I had seen something Jun 26 20:41:31 * CM is a bit tired Jun 26 20:46:47 hmm, i wonder how fast ie dos would be under qemu too :o Jun 26 20:47:02 I know some old cell phones could handle dosgames at least. : \ Jun 26 20:47:32 phed__: use dosbox for that, not qemu Jun 26 20:48:11 oh, i thought that wasnt portable : \ Jun 26 20:48:20 Registrating at the OM bugzilla is truly slow Jun 26 20:50:05 BTW: What's up with buildhost? Jun 26 21:03:47 hi, if I want to make a game for openmoko, which library do I have to use? Jun 26 21:05:00 you can even write your own library...you don't have to use a specific one Jun 26 21:05:28 i'm thinking some sort of sdl port would be suitable Jun 26 21:05:38 phed_: fix your connection Jun 26 21:05:55 eek, yeah. :\ Jun 26 21:06:18 zell if you are familar with the gp2x, than you can almost do the same on the neo Jun 26 21:06:28 no I'm not Jun 26 21:06:36 zell1983 - It's simple X11, go and run your favorite game. Jun 26 21:06:39 but I know sdl a little bit Jun 26 21:09:41 with a sdl port I think it will be easier to write a game for openmoko Jun 26 21:10:40 sdl is no problem Jun 26 21:11:43 I'm thinking to write the game for Linux with SDL than when it's finished port it on openmoko Jun 26 21:12:11 do you think it's a good strategy? Jun 26 21:12:16 it's sound Jun 26 21:12:23 yes thats the way to go Jun 26 21:12:49 ok, good. thanks you all Jun 26 21:13:16 but you cann look at fenix too Jun 26 21:13:18 http://chui.dcemu.co.uk/fenix.html#Whats Jun 26 21:14:58 I'll check this, thanks you Jun 26 21:17:00 im about to try using the mokomakefile on a freshly installed ubuntu system. Jun 26 21:17:11 iirc SDL already runs on openmoko Jun 26 21:17:15 * don-o hopes the wiki is up to date Jun 26 21:17:21 i've seen screenshots of some SDL game running on the neo1973 Jun 26 21:17:44 oh very good Jun 26 21:18:43 yeah it's been run Jun 26 21:19:07 zell1983: scroll through http://flickr.com/photos/tags/openmoko for some different apps (including games) on the neo Jun 26 21:20:21 zell1983 - Normal X11 game on the neo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ph5/417853278/in/photostream/ Jun 26 21:20:55 wow , very interesting Jun 26 21:21:27 OEandYourDistro++ Jun 26 21:23:31 counter Jun 26 21:23:32 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 07:18:12 (0.304±0.3 days) (1599;240) Jun 26 21:24:58 pavelm: the counter bot was killed long ago Jun 26 21:28:11 * don-o does make setup (with mokomakefile) Jun 26 21:29:30 don-o - Have fun with monotone.... Jun 26 21:30:00 Elrond: yeah ive been down this path before on an 800mhz laptop and very slow internet link. a couple days i think it would have taken. Jun 26 21:30:06 pavelm, In what way was the counter bot killed? Jun 26 21:30:14 Elrond: now im on a coreduo mac mini with a DS3 connection. Jun 26 21:30:28 (with ubuntu running under parallels) Jun 26 21:32:58 don-o: Are there any news? Jun 26 21:33:14 pavelm: not that i have heard. the community mailing list seems to be the best source for info. Jun 26 21:38:11 bye, everyone. Jun 26 21:38:16 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Sean]] [[Wish_List]] Jun 26 21:43:00 Elrond: its just sitting at "mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org" :( Jun 26 21:43:38 don-o - No idea. I was happy, when that part was over. Jun 26 21:43:46 don-o yes the server is slappy Jun 26 21:43:53 and no one fixed till now Jun 26 21:44:03 slappy? Jun 26 21:44:08 florian said he would look in to it Jun 26 21:44:19 hm some bandwith problems with newer kernel Jun 26 21:44:22 was a guess Jun 26 21:44:35 IO issues Jun 26 21:44:44 don-o: use a mirror Jun 26 21:44:54 zecke: oh yeah? suggestions? Jun 26 21:45:11 opensource.wolfson*BLA*FOO*.com Jun 26 21:46:35 zecke: trying. thx. Jun 26 21:46:54 Connection refused Jun 26 21:47:20 Can I buy an openmoko phone yet? Jun 26 21:47:32 no Jun 26 21:47:34 no Jun 26 21:48:33 zecke: the command is 'mtn --db=OE.mtn pull opensource.wolfson*FOO*.com org.openembedded.dev' (with the *FOO* removed) Jun 26 21:48:49 zecke: should that work? Jun 26 21:49:02 don-o: no FOO is a common place holder Jun 26 21:49:04 Man that stinks, where can I get development software? Jun 26 21:49:26 don-o: it is inserted by people when they don't know what the real name is Jun 26 21:49:36 zecke: grin. Jun 26 21:49:58 opensource.wolfsonmicro.com could work Jun 26 21:50:15 there is something called google, which can replace FOO with something real Jun 26 21:52:40 zecke: thats working. i thought you were trying to obfusticate the real hostname to keep irc scraper bots from cataloging it. Jun 26 21:53:17 I would be happy if they would do, this would make linuxtogo.org usable again ;) Jun 26 21:55:22 the 'big sync' has begun. 44/5,906 revisions. Jun 26 22:07:20 when will it be released?????????......cant w.a.i.t......mussttt have........mmmmmmmmmm Jun 26 22:07:21 runishe: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jun 26 22:08:54 counter Jun 26 22:08:55 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 06:55:30 (0.289±0.3 days) (1600;240) Jun 26 22:09:27 18h remaining for sean Jun 26 22:09:58 ? 512 MB MicroSD card included? Jun 26 22:10:22 Sean has been kidnapped by aliens. Jun 26 22:10:27 hi Jun 26 22:10:39 oi Jun 26 22:10:46 They are demanding 100 exatons of bananas before they will release him. Jun 26 22:10:55 SpeedEvil, and they took the first both production runs with them Jun 26 22:11:03 aloril: ahhhhh. Cool! thx Jun 26 22:12:32 why can't the release gta03 with opengl/es, the >600 mhz cortex a8, and 3g? :) Jun 26 22:12:42 wanna have it now! :) Jun 26 22:12:56 how long have you waited already? Jun 26 22:13:57 well, on the neo: for months :) Jun 26 22:14:10 I've been waiting since 1972, when I, as part of a crack commando unit, was sent to prison for a crime we did not commit. Jun 26 22:14:12 but for the first time, gta01 would be ok for me :) Jun 26 22:14:43 whats another day Jun 26 22:14:44 me too...my current phone is almost broken, but i keep taping it together, to wait it out for the Neo Jun 26 22:14:51 i mean it still has to ship Jun 26 22:15:20 Mortimus, currently we are not waiting for the device, we are awaiting the news :) Jun 26 22:15:32 or are you going to have it same day / overnight delivery Jun 26 22:15:49 SpeedEvil: if you've got a celluar problem, and noone else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire, the Sean-team. Jun 26 22:15:52 It has been a while since i read real news Jun 26 22:16:18 on the 20th of june sean wrote to the list, that there will be "real" news within a week Jun 26 22:16:34 the run is 500 units right? i wonder if that will sell out right away, or if the only people who really want one are the dozen or so in this channel. Jun 26 22:16:52 The first run was 500, another run of 500 was planned Jun 26 22:16:54 foreshadowing creates suspense Jun 26 22:17:05 gta02 is quite tempting i think many people will wait for it Jun 26 22:17:14 I've not heard concrete news about the second run, but the furst run at least got partway through. Jun 26 22:18:14 I'm also looking forward to see a efl-based gui Jun 26 22:18:51 and even if I'm not a good programmer, I'd like to write some etk-apps :) Jun 26 22:19:03 I'm looking forward to applying the analog devices sample I've applied for. Jun 26 22:19:16 For a non-contact joystick Jun 26 22:19:30 SpeedEvil, non-contact joystick? Jun 26 22:19:48 a joystick that senses finger position through the case Jun 26 22:20:10 speedevil: how should that work? Jun 26 22:20:17 optical? heat? Jun 26 22:20:22 Capacitance. Jun 26 22:20:39 There are nice chips from analog devices for it. Jun 26 22:21:11 a additional inputdevice would be useful. imho touchscreen only is not enough Jun 26 22:21:56 hope to read some news by you on the hardware mailinglist soon :) Jun 26 22:23:40 counter says within 0.6 days at most... Jun 26 22:31:50 question is the backlight for the screen EL panel or led deflection? Jun 26 22:32:04 LED Jun 26 22:32:09 deflection? Jun 26 22:32:47 you need a deflection grid to disperse the light through out the screen Jun 26 22:32:55 IIRC the backlight is on the order of .3-.4W Jun 26 22:33:06 diffuser is the common term Jun 26 22:33:18 correct Jun 26 22:33:49 LuitvD, yes, thats correct, the week that sean was speaking of is over in 18h :) Jun 26 22:34:16 yeh, which is too bad if he doesn't open his mouth within those 18 hours Jun 26 22:36:45 I'm concidering a Neo again... every other nice phone is more expensive... Jun 26 22:42:02 To be actually correct - it's 17 hours, I think. Jun 26 22:42:22 (though it is a meaningless correction) Jun 26 22:43:13 Hmm - I may be being confused by DST Jun 26 22:43:20 * SpeedEvil Sighs. Jun 26 22:43:23 SpeedEvil, 17.5h now :) Jun 26 22:44:49 more like ... Jun 26 22:44:56 now Jun 26 22:44:59 XD Jun 26 22:46:21 SpeedEvil - hehe. You know, why all those timezone stuff was invented a few hundred years ago, at least according to one story? Because the noble people wanted to show, how they control everything, even the time. ;o) Jun 26 22:47:06 time zones were created because of trains, and other fast transportations Jun 26 22:47:09 only 4,300 revs left to go, at 31 revs a minute. :) Jun 26 22:47:31 LuitvD - I'm talking of the time before trains. Jun 26 22:47:45 Elrond: before that there were no time zones... Jun 26 22:48:09 before trains, there was local time for every city Jun 26 22:48:46 defined by the lattitude (or is it longitude? ) of the place Jun 26 22:49:13 LuitvD - Well, the nobles tried to play with the time. Jun 26 22:49:46 LuitvD - And I meant "timezone" more in a wider sense. Jun 26 22:50:00 scientists too... hell, the greek did it, even the ancient egypt has recordings of timedifference Jun 26 22:50:33 in tossug talk they mention, that OM have ~3.900 mailing list subscribers, this could mean 3.900 potentional P1 buyers Jun 26 22:50:51 hehe. Jun 26 22:50:53 I doubt that. Jun 26 22:51:07 Handy way to remember - it's the longitude problem, not the latitude problem, and it was solved by making an accurate clock. Jun 26 22:51:26 So longitude must be on the rotational axes. Jun 26 22:51:38 around the rotational axes. Jun 26 22:51:53 Elrond: well even if it's half the number... Jun 26 22:52:08 ynezz - Yeah. Jun 26 22:56:50 i hope, that they'll sell one neo per person or better per city :D Jun 26 22:58:04 ynezz - Huh? Jun 26 22:59:01 what if somebody buy more than one neo... Jun 26 22:59:03 :) Jun 26 23:00:11 then he can make calls to himself and talk to himself on the phone, yay Jun 26 23:00:44 or use one, and 'will it blend?' the other... Jun 26 23:01:17 or learn juggling the Neos Jun 26 23:01:29 then when he advances he can get another one Jun 26 23:01:59 *G* Jun 26 23:02:21 I bet I can learn to juggle 3 Neos without killing one... Jun 26 23:02:43 * LuitvD can already juggle 3 'objects' Jun 26 23:02:44 ...over a nice soft foam table Jun 26 23:02:44 i could juggle them just fine if they aren't mine Jun 26 23:03:18 (as long as the objects aren't sharp or hot, or cold... or slippery Jun 26 23:03:22 or sticky Jun 26 23:03:35 or too heavy Jun 26 23:03:37 XD Jun 26 23:03:42 Hey - with the accelerometer in it, you could add a juggling tutorial! :) Jun 26 23:03:48 lol Jun 26 23:03:51 or in plasma state Jun 26 23:03:53 SpeedEvil, excellent! Jun 26 23:03:55 damn, never thought of that Jun 26 23:04:13 "Come on then, gimme some more spin" Jun 26 23:04:13 really great idea SpeedEvil, creating accelerometer-juggling-balls Jun 26 23:04:43 * mmp starts to be really scared from ideas comming from this channel Jun 26 23:04:48 mjr: "Damn it, do you think I like being dropped?" :) Jun 26 23:04:49 I wish i had the accelerometer phase back in physics Jun 26 23:05:29 * LuitvD is off for some sleep Jun 26 23:05:37 8 hours of work to do tomorrow Jun 26 23:05:41 gotta be fresh... Jun 26 23:05:57 (or else I won't get my money) :P Jun 26 23:07:23 can the user choose the filesystem for / or what is the default FS for / Jun 26 23:08:01 the internal flash Jun 26 23:08:20 yes Jun 26 23:08:22 oh, sorry, you didn't mean that Jun 26 23:08:26 jffs2 Jun 26 23:08:53 (and of course you can flash anything there that you can make work ;) Jun 26 23:09:07 though you do realize that you can't use a normal disk filesystem on the flash? Jun 26 23:09:12 you can have a different FS, but jffs2 is the best idea at the moment Jun 26 23:09:56 For the SD, you can use anything, umsdos, ... Jun 26 23:10:06 well i was reading about the pitfalls of NAND and the write life consideration Jun 26 23:10:15 yeah; something like logfs might take over eventually, but jffs2 seems it now Jun 26 23:10:21 nfs, gmailfs Jun 26 23:10:45 SpeedEvil, I thought umsdos was dropped from mainline, though I suppose you could patch it in :] Jun 26 23:11:01 HUh, it was dropped?! Jun 26 23:11:14 It worked nicely in the 1.0.x days. Jun 26 23:12:21 mjr - Well, you could use xfs on top of mtdblock. But it would be a very stupid idea. Jun 26 23:12:39 "please kill my phone now" Jun 26 23:12:59 you have insurance? Jun 26 23:16:30 http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l214/Ymdar/Motivator/igod.jpg Only really works if you've done the RPG thing. Jun 26 23:32:23 * sixfeet ♫ Stromkern - Stand Up (Extended) Jun 26 23:34:20 Elrond: im at 3,255/5,906 revs. whoho. Jun 27 00:37:37 5,169/5,906 revs. Jun 27 00:50:25 * Q_Continuum is surprised by the # of people in the channel Jun 27 00:51:02 it's a popular place to wait ... Jun 27 00:51:54 rwhitby: that it is... I'm not really even sure why I'm waiting, it's not like I'm on a pre-order list or anything Jun 27 00:53:09 * CoreDump|afk laughs evilly while he charges his two neos Jun 27 00:53:21 CoreDump|afk: why do you get two? Jun 27 00:53:49 well, one is suffering nasty hardware defects Jun 27 00:53:56 P0 and P1 dev models Jun 27 00:54:00 I see Jun 27 00:54:07 will you get a P2 dev model also? Jun 27 00:54:16 heh Jun 27 00:54:18 and P1+? Jun 27 00:54:24 we wish. But no Jun 27 00:54:29 one hopes so ;-) Jun 27 00:54:31 that's a shame Jun 27 00:54:49 * CoreDump|afk is very grateful for the P1 =) Jun 27 00:55:13 * mjr 's paws twitch around empty air where there should be a phone Jun 27 00:55:22 * summatusmentis is waiting till GTA02 is available for sale(or august, at least) Jun 27 00:55:40 * CoreDump|afk will probably buy a P2 as well ;) WIFI rocks Jun 27 00:55:41 * Q_Continuum can't wait for his to show up, not sure which model is coming though Jun 27 00:55:50 wifi schmifi Jun 27 00:56:04 wifi ftw! Particularly since no 3G Jun 27 00:56:39 I use mainly wifi with my Nokia phone, 3G costs a fortune but were I work and at home has wifi Jun 27 00:57:18 I use CMDA 1x speeds on my phone :-) Jun 27 00:57:44 <- Cingular, no data package on his treo - can't wait for his to show up Jun 27 00:58:05 Q_Continuum: gonna get data when neo shows up? Jun 27 00:58:11 Probably. Jun 27 00:58:15 * CoreDump|afk fires up fbreader on his P0 is heads to bed Jun 27 00:58:21 n8 all Jun 27 00:58:26 CoreDump|afk: yeah yeah, rub it in Jun 27 00:58:29 goodnight Jun 27 00:58:47 I went Ubuntu full-time here a few months ago, and am in the process of getting that fully working - can't wait to have a phone running same. Jun 27 00:59:11 I stopped uing windows at work and home about 7 years ago now Jun 27 00:59:17 using* Jun 27 00:59:31 I havent missed it to be honest Jun 27 00:59:46 I've played with Linux for about that long Jun 27 00:59:59 but was on dialup, college demanded XP, etc... Jun 27 01:00:07 saw Vista and didn't look back Jun 27 01:00:09 wow... I feel young comparitively Jun 27 01:00:31 only been using linux for like 4 years, and exclusively? erm... 1.5 years Jun 27 01:00:42 exclusively for about 3 months lol Jun 27 01:01:01 I've got a Windows box for gaming, and a VM for anything I need for testing/support *shrugs* Jun 27 01:01:23 But my Treo doesn't sync with Thunderbird, so I'm looking forward to the Neo Jun 27 01:01:31 well thanks to Microsoft releasing the XBOX360 with network support the whole "I need windows for games" arguement went out the door, especially considering consoles get games months before the PC platform now Jun 27 01:01:54 Q_Continuum: I just have the Treo650 access the IMAP server same as Thunderbird. Jun 27 01:01:57 Q_Continuum: treo doesn't sync w/ thunderbird? I found a plugin a while back to get thunderbird to sync with a Zire Jun 27 01:01:58 and some games are now "console only" Jun 27 01:02:12 for me the windows box is to maintain the 300+ games on my shelf... Jun 27 01:02:17 * rwhitby loves IMAP, and chooses not to use Google Mail simply because of the lack of imap support. Jun 27 01:02:26 that was contacts only though Jun 27 01:02:45 what I'd prefer is 'net access on my laptop wherever I go Jun 27 01:02:53 but data rates are too spendy, and I don't need it quite yet Jun 27 01:03:10 rwhitby if you use thunderbird there is a plugin that creates a contacts/imap like enviroment for gmail accounts Jun 27 01:03:38 linux_galore: that doesn't help for multiple clients accessing gmail via imap Jun 27 01:03:43 (which is what imap is all about) Jun 27 01:04:00 my laptop has all my email, I just need 'net access where I go Jun 27 01:04:16 imap stores on the server? and then pushes a copy to the clients? Jun 27 01:04:42 pop3 downloads, imap works off the server, IIRC Jun 27 01:05:51 yeah, with this thunderbird plugin (im looking for the link) you can turn your gmail account into something very similar to exchange Jun 27 01:06:16 heh Jun 27 01:06:24 I run gmail + 2 domains worth of email to manage Jun 27 01:06:41 so laptop > PDA Jun 27 01:07:00 I bought one of the Ubuntu-preloaded Dells, it rocks. Jun 27 01:07:04 I love gmail, very simple hardly any spam Jun 27 01:07:22 Q_Continuum: yeah, we dont have them yet here in AU Jun 27 01:07:50 will the NEO support gmail I wonder Jun 27 01:07:59 of course it will. Jun 27 01:08:00 its Linux Jun 27 01:08:05 just compile whatever :D Jun 27 01:08:09 imap smart caches on the client, and pushes flag updates back to the server so other clients can see them Jun 27 01:08:49 Q_Continuum: ubuntu dell? working well? Jun 27 01:08:53 download on the treo, disconnect, read, delete, respond to email on the bus. reconnect at work. update. done. Jun 27 01:09:08 summatusmentis, yes Jun 27 01:09:10 never see a message you deleted on the bus on your desktop client Jun 27 01:09:21 rwhitby: and dont get paid for your time Jun 27 01:09:29 the only thing they didn't pre-configure on my dell was TTY resolution, everything else works out-of-the-box Jun 27 01:09:33 linux_galore: never said it was work email ;-) Jun 27 01:09:40 Q_Continuum: that's cool Jun 27 01:09:42 (it's usually openmoko list email) Jun 27 01:10:01 glad a manufacturer is finally stepping up(for desktop linux) Jun 27 01:10:12 that's why I grabbed it Jun 27 01:10:20 my old laptop's LCD was going - so it was time for a new one Jun 27 01:10:35 When does the release(open to public, not final) of GTA02 get announced? Jun 27 01:10:37 Ebay the old one. Jun 27 01:10:44 Q_Continuum: very cool Jun 27 01:10:52 summatusmentis: in theory in the next 14 hours or so. Jun 27 01:11:07 rwhitby: sad but I see people on the bus/train with treo/blackberry doing work email, its a total con job because they dont get paid for their time, the device is given out for free by the company but is really just an extended chain to their desk Jun 27 01:11:35 SpeedEvil: so as soon as the "Anyone can buy for $350, starting perhaps any week" happens, GTA02 will be available? Jun 27 01:11:39 Well - code a timekeeping email client for OM! Jun 27 01:11:41 or sorry, it'll be announced Jun 27 01:11:50 summatusmentis: well - ... Jun 27 01:11:52 linux_galore: yep, depends on whether you're working for yourself (or have a share in the profits) or are just working for the man Jun 27 01:11:55 I might skip the GTA01 because it doesnt have Wifi Jun 27 01:12:13 SpeedEvil: "..." ?? Jun 27 01:12:17 summatusmentis: the first version to be available - the first prodcuction run - does not have wifi Jun 27 01:12:32 Unless they decide to dump the 500-1000 already made Jun 27 01:12:33 SpeedEvil: right, GTA01 Jun 27 01:12:57 I recall finding a page on the wiki listing all the dev models & v1 and on specs and differences, couldn't find it last time I looked Jun 27 01:13:04 so in theory, as soon as GTA01 is available for sale, they'll have an availability date for GTA02? Jun 27 01:13:36 if the GTA02 has wifi i will happily pay double Jun 27 01:14:01 summatusmentis: Well - in the very distant past, that has been stated. Jun 27 01:14:16 summatusmentis: I would not hold anything said that far back as gospel. Jun 27 01:14:24 SpeedEvil: alright, so really, noone has any idea anymore when GTA02 will be available? :-) Jun 27 01:14:51 I have bluetoth dongles but I have nevr been a big fan of it as a data transfer method Jun 27 01:14:57 bluetooth* Jun 27 01:15:19 I'm planning on trying pulling hte bluetooth dongle, and subbing a wifi one. Jun 27 01:15:49 lol, I forgot you were gonna mod yours Jun 27 01:16:00 I'd prefer GTA02(bt and wifi) Jun 27 01:16:07 SpeedEvil: 2.6.22 added support for a Linksys wifi USB dongle I noticed Jun 27 01:16:20 I did? Jun 27 01:16:24 linux_galore: ?? 802.11g? Jun 27 01:16:40 I'm planning on the zydas one. I've got some. Jun 27 01:16:41 summatusmentis: yeah its 802.11g Jun 27 01:16:54 I want WiMax support in my Neo. lol. Jun 27 01:17:04 linux_galore: do you have a source? you might've just saved the entire Zaurus communities lives :-) Jun 27 01:17:12 * mjr whacks Q_Continuum with the Prime Directive Jun 27 01:17:23 man...I completely forgot I have a Zaurus. Jun 27 01:17:24 well here in AU they are rolling out Wimax for rural areas Jun 27 01:17:32 mjr: Prime Directive? Jun 27 01:17:41 * Q_Continuum isn't familiar with the term in this setting Jun 27 01:17:42 * summatusmentis slaps Q_Continuum... "NEVER FORGET!!!" Jun 27 01:17:53 * Q_Continuum is confused Jun 27 01:17:58 Q_Continuum: it's a trekkie reference, I don't remember what it is Jun 27 01:18:08 I know the Trekkie reference Jun 27 01:18:11 and that's just blasphemy to forget about the Z Jun 27 01:18:20 but in this context it seemed like it meant something else Jun 27 01:18:35 well, my 6000 doesn't have a GSM card - otherwise I never would've gotten a Treo Jun 27 01:18:36 yeah, I don't know about the context Jun 27 01:18:46 ooh, spiffy Jun 27 01:18:59 battery life left something to be desired, though Jun 27 01:18:59 I've got a 3200, so usb wifi(g speed) is a lifesaver Jun 27 01:19:20 using the integrated wifi generated a TON of heat Jun 27 01:19:31 Qimax is overhyped Jun 27 01:19:34 Wimax Jun 27 01:20:00 summatusmentis: it was posted in the comments section on /. discussing the 2.6.22 kernel release Jun 27 01:20:17 linux_galore: I guess I missed that completely Jun 27 01:20:19 well...pay phone data rates, or use wimax at fixed monthly cost... Jun 27 01:20:19 thanks Jun 27 01:21:20 well they used Wimax at the Melbourne grandprix last year, apparently they were really impressed at the transfer speeds Jun 27 01:21:32 Wimax works well - until everyone starts using it. Jun 27 01:21:49 When that happens, things really go downhill. Jun 27 01:22:10 SpeedEvil: they are going to use it on 5.8Ghz, Im not a fan of 5.8Ghz gear Jun 27 01:22:15 Ranges plummet as interference gets to be a problem, and transmitter rate drops. Jun 27 01:22:29 If you're talking ISP->user - it can work Jun 27 01:22:37 peer-peer, and it rapidly breaks down. Jun 27 01:22:53 SpeedEvil: yeah here wimax is being used isp->user Jun 27 01:23:20 The interesting - long-term bit may be 60GHz. Jun 27 01:23:36 As any transmission gets absorbed by the air in 1Km or so. Jun 27 01:23:37 have WImax on the GTA02 would blow everything on the market out of the water Jun 27 01:23:50 No, it wouldn't. Jun 27 01:23:59 good luck finding wimax w/ OSS drivers Jun 27 01:24:03 heh Jun 27 01:24:11 Frequency allocations are even more scattered than GSM Jun 27 01:24:18 And global coverage sucks. Jun 27 01:24:46 SpeedEvil: yeah, I agree, be a few years before it becomes stable too Jun 27 01:24:49 A wideband radio - say 4-20Ghz would be _horrendusly_ expensive and large. Jun 27 01:25:32 I would love to see the Neo have basically a "docking port" where you can add something to it, to allow for random expansion. Like my Zaurus 6000 - made for enterprises to develop their own stuff, has a port on the bottom. Jun 27 01:25:33 802.11g or even b would keep me happy Jun 27 01:25:47 say, a wifi module with extra battery Jun 27 01:25:52 or wimax with extra battery Jun 27 01:26:01 or a 8GB+ SSD device Jun 27 01:26:17 or whatever else people come up with Jun 27 01:26:17 Q_Continuum: it's got USB, but afaik it's not host Jun 27 01:26:20 yeah, a docking port would make it less future proof and promote add on sales Jun 27 01:26:27 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back Jun 27 01:26:46 It's 1.1 host and device Jun 27 01:26:52 on the neo Jun 27 01:27:20 ah, 1.1, that's a shame Jun 27 01:27:39 or even a bluetooth-.wifi/recharge dock Jun 27 01:27:46 or whatever you wanted to add Jun 27 01:27:58 2 is basically unavailable in the chipset format Jun 27 01:28:14 and the internal BT is behind another USB port; hence those replacement talks... Jun 27 01:28:57 It should 'just work' - albeit using around 0.5W of power for the wifi. Jun 27 01:29:09 And maybe needing a 3-5V converter chip too. Jun 27 01:30:08 the 2.6.22 kernel has support for the Linksys WUSBF54G Jun 27 01:30:17 just looked through the kernel notes Jun 27 01:30:23 linux_galore: <3 Jun 27 01:30:33 Question is - does it work on 1.1 Jun 27 01:31:22 SpeedEvil: read the specs from linksys Jun 27 01:31:38 No. Unless you're going to buy me one. Jun 27 01:31:44 SpeedEvil: cant see why not though Jun 27 01:31:53 heh Jun 27 01:32:08 Many 54.g modules don't. Jun 27 01:32:30 they don't? buggers Jun 27 01:32:33 At least last time I looked. Jun 27 01:32:51 actually the added drivers list for 2.6.22 is huge Jun 27 01:32:54 Or at least - they don't say they can also be used on 1.1 - the ones that can do Jun 27 01:33:27 now I understand why so may people run Gutsy Jun 27 01:35:25 isnt the USB on the NEO GTA01 ver 2 Jun 27 01:36:38 No. Jun 27 01:36:39 It's 1.1 Jun 27 01:36:51 2 is unavailable largely in low-power stuff Jun 27 01:38:56 SpeedEvil: kidding me, my 3 year old digital cam is USB 2.0 Jun 27 01:39:03 No. Jun 27 01:39:11 The USB2 part is not low power. Jun 27 01:39:30 It's probably in that case a chip which is only turned on when the cam is plugged in Jun 27 01:39:44 so give me an add-on larger battery, add 1/4" or whatever *shrugs* Jun 27 01:40:13 It's not that simple. Jun 27 01:40:24 It would basically mean switching to a whole new family of CPUs Jun 27 01:40:30 SpeedEvil: bummer Jun 27 01:40:47 Also - think on what you need USB2 for. Jun 27 01:40:50 SpeedEvil: going to be slow as hell to transfer video medi Jun 27 01:40:51 a Jun 27 01:41:06 The largest card you can get at the moment is 2G Jun 27 01:41:44 And video sized to play on the neo will be some 40K/second Jun 27 01:41:54 SpeedEvil: MiniSD id 4G now and samsung has a 8GB unit on test Jun 27 01:41:58 is* Jun 27 01:42:13 Probably less than that. Jun 27 01:42:20 MicroSD!=miniSD Jun 27 01:42:51 And 2G microSD I haven't seen anywhere with them in stock. Jun 27 01:43:16 * balrog-kun got one of these for birthday Jun 27 01:43:26 sandisk are selling 4G microsd Jun 27 01:43:39 Are they actually in stock anywhere though. Jun 27 01:44:04 linux_galore: you can upload an hour of video in around 4 mins. Jun 27 01:44:21 SpeedEvil: when i looked at microsd for my nokia they had a price for one on the website Jun 27 01:45:08 Having a price doesn't mean they have them in stock. Jun 27 01:45:14 SpeedEvil: I upload about 20-30Mb of podcasts a day to my iPOD, I did own a a unit that had 1.1 and it was slow as hell Jun 27 01:45:15 counter Jun 27 01:45:15 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 05:07:20 (0.213±0.2 days) (1601;240) Jun 27 01:45:42 hat up? Jun 27 01:45:43 Well - 1.1 should take under a minute to do 20-30M Jun 27 01:45:45 SpeedEvil: I must admit the things were bloody expensive Jun 27 01:45:58 daniel_bergamini: nothing Jun 27 01:46:29 http://mediaatlantic.com/product.php?xProd=134469 Hmm Jun 27 01:46:37 36 quid - but out of stock Jun 27 01:47:06 Im out stuff to do Jun 27 01:47:16 wav3e Jun 27 01:49:50 http://www.onlinememory.co.uk/sandisk-4gb-microsd-card-transflash-p-745.html?currency=GBP&language=en - in stock even Jun 27 01:52:15 4G almost makes it a reasonable mp3 player size. Jun 27 02:11:50 aren't nano's 4G? Jun 27 02:11:58 Dunno Jun 27 02:32:06 heard Apple signed a huge contract with Samsung for a shit load of 4GB/16GB flash Jun 27 02:32:21 sorry 8GB Jun 27 02:33:00 I suspect its for the iPhone and next lot of iPODS Jun 27 02:34:30 bugger, all the parts have arrived and we dont have enough labour in th factory to finnish the contracts, time for me to turn into a solder monkey Jun 27 02:36:09 * linux_galore spinds around like Wonder woman in a 70's camp movie and turns into "Solder Monkey" Jun 27 02:43:37 counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in Jun 27 02:43:37 aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in Jun 27 02:43:39 counter Jun 27 02:43:39 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (60% for P1<=2007-07-07) 60% for *news* in 07:08:08 (0.297±0.3 days) (1602;239) Jun 27 02:43:53 added missing 4.5h + 0.5h extra Jun 27 02:48:47 'missing' ? Jun 27 02:49:41 based on when Sean wrote "In less than a week" Jun 27 02:49:50 ah Jun 27 02:50:49 had made just 2007-06-26 at UCT-12 ;-) (being lazy), anyway now it should cover all of above + 0.5h extra over week Jun 27 02:51:07 s:above:"In less than a week" Jun 27 02:52:05 not going to update news counter beyond this, going to just revert back to P1 counter (unless somebody with info says news are delayed) Jun 27 02:55:26 227 minutes later, mokomakefile make setup is finished. yea. Jun 27 02:55:39 CoreDump|afk, rwhitby: I assume they will want to test GTA02 before actually selling, so who knows maybe you get one .. Jun 27 02:57:44 aloril: I'm hoping that's the case Jun 27 02:58:23 rwhitby: mainly basing this guess to comment by roh along lines that they will beta test it and not sell until they are sure its OK Jun 27 02:59:27 free testing and publicity is always worth the price of an additional unit of hardware given away **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 27 02:59:56 2007