**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 08 02:59:57 2007 Jul 08 03:01:35 just found a HP 7130 three in one printer on the curb, looks to be in very good condition ie clean Jul 08 03:02:01 the up side there is a Linux driver Jul 08 03:02:22 the down side is there is no power brick Jul 08 03:03:55 V? Jul 08 03:10:58 Linux_Galore: doesnt mean it even works... :) Jul 08 03:18:14 raster: funny thing is about three weeks ago I passed a HP printer with a power pack thrown out and I was thinking of grabbing the power pack Jul 08 03:18:29 hahaha Jul 08 03:18:50 the printer was in a pretty bad state and I wasnt in one of my pack rat moods Jul 08 03:19:37 I actually have a heaps of power packs just not anything with more than 24V Jul 08 03:20:06 speaking of powerpacks Jul 08 03:20:17 i am so glad there is a tred for more gadgets to simply power off usb Jul 08 03:20:24 be it phones or mp3 players Jul 08 03:20:24 etc. Jul 08 03:20:36 i'm tired of carrying a bazillion powerpacks around Jul 08 03:20:57 my Sony F717 digital cam doesnt run of the USB hubs power supply Jul 08 03:21:14 typical Sony product Jul 08 03:21:55 most cameras dont Jul 08 03:22:34 most devices that can connect to usb dont Jul 08 03:22:47 and many others that have no use for usb should just include a mini-usb plug Jul 08 03:22:54 and be able to power/recharge off usb Jul 08 03:23:46 Just got back from visiting Sydney harbour to see the US Aircraft carrier (just a big lump of metal to me but my wife wanted to see it) Jul 08 03:25:37 my test digikams ability to auto upload images to flickr Jul 08 03:26:31 might* Jul 08 03:53:02 see you Jul 08 03:53:19 would it be hard to write apps usign qt on openmoko Jul 08 03:54:30 not really Jul 08 03:54:39 as long as u build and install qt on it Jul 08 03:54:50 and all the c++ support (libstdc++= etc.) Jul 08 03:55:12 the widget engine is gtk+? Jul 08 03:55:57 is it making use of gtk embeded Jul 08 03:56:09 its gtk+ Jul 08 03:56:11 right now Jul 08 03:56:27 is it going to be something else? Jul 08 03:56:40 its an open device Jul 08 03:56:46 you can put any widget set on that you like Jul 08 04:06:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Sagacis]] Jul 08 04:09:24 i have linux installed on my pc but not a phone, could i still compile and debug the platform using only a pc? Jul 08 04:12:36 lol @ http://www.googoth.com/ Jul 08 04:13:08 instead of "Im Feeling Lucky" is has "Im Feeling Depressed" Jul 08 04:46:05 BlackBsd: yes Jul 08 04:46:59 <|R|> 24h before OpenMoko takes over the world! ;) Jul 08 04:47:22 thanks, i have to read up on how to get things set up... Jul 08 05:02:32 @roh: I think it worked :-) Jul 08 05:02:34 there seems to be a problem with the download.sh -script though Jul 08 05:02:36 do you know a substitute for lynx? Jul 08 05:02:38 isn't that a text editor? Jul 08 05:03:01 no Jul 08 05:03:02 its not Jul 08 05:03:09 its a text-mode web browser Jul 08 05:03:14 has been around for a long time Jul 08 05:05:41 oh right Jul 08 05:06:38 I just googled that there is a package for MacOS Jul 08 05:09:15 i think there is a program called links Jul 08 05:09:35 its a textmode browser also Jul 08 05:09:58 the one I'm going to use: Jul 08 05:10:02 http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/lynxtextwebbrowser.html Jul 08 05:10:03 it may be only on freebsd though Jul 08 05:10:26 doesnt that come from freebsd? Jul 08 05:10:31 maybe not.. Jul 08 05:10:42 ;-) Jul 08 05:11:50 Ophelia_ try curl Jul 08 05:12:03 Ophelia_ thats delivered with osx and similar to wget Jul 08 05:12:19 aha Jul 08 05:12:52 I thought I first install lynx, shouldn't I? Jul 08 05:13:55 you can. Jul 08 05:14:04 you also can just change the script.. as you like Jul 08 05:14:29 <|R|> w3m also Jul 08 05:21:28 seems as it works with lynx installed :-) Jul 08 05:23:45 hmmm Jul 08 05:23:45 how about this? Jul 08 05:23:55 noname:~/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973 hagenbecker108$ openmoko/flash.sh Jul 08 05:23:55 Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. Jul 08 05:23:55 noname:~/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973 hagenbecker108$ Jul 08 05:24:32 u need netpbd Jul 08 05:24:35 netpbm Jul 08 05:25:49 aha Jul 08 05:26:40 is version 9.25-14 ok or should I use 10.24-3? Jul 08 05:29:54 is openmoko debian/ubuntu/gentoo/LFS based? Jul 08 05:30:06 or something else? Jul 08 05:32:18 Oe Jul 08 05:34:33 open embedded Jul 08 05:35:29 yes Jul 08 05:35:52 * sudharsh_ curses his ISP Jul 08 05:38:01 A hardware question for anyone who might know the answer. Does anyone here know if the SPI bus 0 which is brought out to test points is 'free' for our own use (assuming soldering)? i.e. not shared with the mini SD card slot (presumably on SPI 1)? The webpage just shows SS0 as the chip select and I want to make sure it is okay for me to start using that for a small application. Jul 08 05:39:39 It worked :-) Jul 08 05:45:44 so the phones coming out in july will not have wifi? Jul 08 05:45:44 GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 08 05:46:43 ok, thats what i thought Jul 08 05:49:47 awesome, I just watched openmoko ad 16, and my test rig is the star! Jul 08 05:52:12 where did you find that? Jul 08 05:54:07 thats cool that javascript will be available but python or ruby would be neat Jul 08 05:54:23 http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=openmoko Jul 08 05:56:08 you make these? Jul 08 05:58:28 they are pretty neat Jul 08 07:13:27 hello moko Jul 08 07:31:30 (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte Re: gmail.com problems and this list Jul 08 08:05:12 counter Jul 08 08:05:13 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 03:54:42 (1.163±1.0 days) (1698;246) Jul 08 08:20:22 a lot of community emails tonight Jul 08 09:39:30 I'm wondering why the mouse-cusor cannot be seen in the QEMU-window Jul 08 09:40:18 in the active QEMU-window, I mean Jul 08 09:48:23 Ophelia - Because the system is configured for no cursor. Even on the real device. Jul 08 09:48:57 Ophelia - Because the you use the stylus/finger as your "cursor". Jul 08 09:50:23 hmmm Jul 08 09:50:23 that's a bit uncomfortable on a system without touchscreen, isn't it? ;-) Jul 08 09:50:57 ;o) Jul 08 09:51:16 but the windows-emulation worked with a cursor Jul 08 09:51:52 how shall I know then where to click for calibrating the screen at the beginning? Jul 08 09:52:04 I have no idea. I mostly use the real thing, or compile straight for my desktop and let it run natively there. Jul 08 09:52:48 Anyway, I'm off for RL Jul 08 09:52:59 ok Jul 08 10:01:10 its now Monday at GMT+14 (or if they have summer time, then it started 1h ago) Jul 08 10:01:10 counter Jul 08 10:01:10 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 01:58:45 (1.082±1.0 days) (1699;246) Jul 08 10:02:59 The Christmas Islands? Jul 08 10:03:47 s/GMT/UTC/ Jul 08 10:04:07 see wikipedia for UTC+14 Jul 08 10:05:08 (counter lower limit is UTC+12 and upper limit is UTC-12) Jul 08 10:05:16 So yes, Christmas Island. Jul 08 10:06:10 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[GPS_Navigation]] Jul 08 10:07:01 aloril2, so.. we should be able to buy on openmoko.com soon? Jul 08 10:15:33 daMaestro: it takes 50h before Monday is over at earth Jul 08 10:15:55 s:earth:Earth: Jul 08 10:34:15 daMaestro: Monday starts at Taiwan in something like 6h Jul 08 10:34:16 * aloril2 would except openmoko.com open closer to end of Taiwan Monday than start of it Jul 08 10:35:43 =S Jul 08 10:36:37 aloril, maybe it's ready and a cronjob enables the page :) Jul 08 10:37:25 well.. i just hope that i can place my order and have it by next weekend Jul 08 10:40:22 daMaestro, I hope so, too Jul 08 10:54:07 hi guys Jul 08 10:56:12 thomasg_: we will see ;-) Jul 08 11:00:03 openmoko is one seriously cool project Jul 08 11:00:11 how many are running the devices here? Jul 08 11:00:12 holymoly: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 11:02:20 hi holymoly, maybe more than 10 Jul 08 11:02:28 neato! Jul 08 11:03:05 one of the things i've been chinking aobut in my head is replacing a portion of the moko case and making a clamshell dealie with a small kb Jul 08 11:03:09 i wonder how doable that would be Jul 08 11:03:21 would be nice to have ssh access via moko Jul 08 11:03:23 hopefully soon more than 50% ;-) Jul 08 11:04:01 i'm reading on the .com page they are a bit behind schedule, can these things be ordered? Jul 08 11:04:14 no Jul 08 11:04:18 day or two Jul 08 11:04:44 ah thats for the dev version, mass market in oct i guess? Jul 08 11:05:08 yes Jul 08 11:05:26 coolness Jul 08 11:05:37 In theory. Many have doubts if the software will be suitable for end-users that soon. Jul 08 11:06:25 that would make sense Jul 08 11:06:31 this is a very complex undertaking Jul 08 11:06:36 i've been thinking about the issue my self Jul 08 11:07:06 i'm starting to think with next years release of the new umpc geared cpus that one will just as well load up standard desktop lik egnome or kde Jul 08 11:07:23 and use some apprs running on that to interface to the cell modem on the device Jul 08 11:07:27 Well, no. Jul 08 11:07:38 A _big_ part of the problem is the user interface. Jul 08 11:07:52 You can run standard desktop stuff, and use a stylus. Jul 08 11:08:05 the "backend" is the same already (gtk, eds, dbus, hal) Jul 08 11:08:09 But, you will often need to hold the phone at 4" and use a magnifying glass. Jul 08 11:08:24 heh i know what you mean Jul 08 11:08:30 Getting stuff to work well with fingers is the hard part. Jul 08 11:08:38 i tried using a sony ux90 ... veeeeery hard to do Jul 08 11:08:58 thats what i was thinking tho Jul 08 11:09:38 well anyway i'll stop there, i'm speculating, much smarter people are working on the problem Jul 08 11:09:50 at minimum i get to ditch that proprietary garbage soonish Jul 08 11:10:35 Hopefully. Jul 08 11:11:29 moko runs an arm based cpu i take it? Jul 08 11:13:05 ah found it Jul 08 11:13:26 Any. Jul 08 11:13:31 The first phone is ARM Jul 08 11:13:49 The Neo1973 Jul 08 11:13:59 it'll run on any processor. Jul 08 11:16:33 tangentially: Samsung S3C2410AL-26 Jul 08 11:16:37 oops Jul 08 11:16:44 http://www.joetech.com/category/communication/ Jul 08 11:16:55 scroll to the bottom, a lot of mockups of what companies are working on Jul 08 11:18:34 counter Jul 08 11:18:34 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 00:41:20 (1.029±1.0 days) (1700;246) Jul 08 11:19:41 is there a package manager for moko? Jul 08 11:24:05 holymoly: ipkg Jul 08 11:24:20 is the moko going to have a standard mini usb port or one of those proprietary all in one/power/usb connecytors? Jul 08 11:24:24 Freed, danke, neato Jul 08 11:24:29 whoooaaaa!!! order page is up Jul 08 11:24:36 s/is/is not/ Jul 08 11:24:38 ScaredyCat meant: whoooaaaa!!! order page is not up Jul 08 11:24:43 :P Jul 08 11:24:55 heh Jul 08 11:25:02 you tried to pull that off too early Jul 08 11:25:19 * holymoly senses about a dozen moko ninjas with their cc in one hand and refreshing the .com page with the other Jul 08 11:25:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RcCFrf-NW0 Jul 08 11:25:36 aha previews Jul 08 11:26:02 easier to use python + beautiful soup + crontab Jul 08 11:26:07 ^^ Jul 08 11:26:11 well it is monday in taiwan Basheri ... Jul 08 11:26:34 * ScaredyCat used a time machine, ordered it, came back to now.. Jul 08 11:26:37 touché Jul 08 11:27:02 you want a Mac? ;) Jul 08 11:27:14 oh ipkg now supports .deb Jul 08 11:27:16 *hmmm* Jul 08 11:27:24 i wonder how it will resolve dependencies Jul 08 11:27:43 i presume debian will haveto have a neo platform branch perhaps Jul 08 11:28:02 repository... Jul 08 11:28:08 repo *nod* Jul 08 11:28:22 fewd has arrived .. :) Jul 08 11:28:25 bl Jul 08 11:29:11 oh okay i got it Jul 08 11:29:21 i can make a clamshell that fits AROUND the moko Jul 08 11:29:44 it would protect it, and it would open up to have a kb that plugs into it via whatever port it has available Jul 08 11:29:46 *hmmm* Jul 08 11:30:49 wow neat, on the demo they are using enlightment libraries Jul 08 11:31:01 yeap Jul 08 11:31:15 that is VERY interesting Jul 08 11:31:16 i've watched that video like 20 times :D Jul 08 11:33:14 sorry to repost Jul 08 11:34:43 haha :P You don't have to apologise that Jul 08 11:36:09 (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger why no lowlevel_foo for gtaXX ? Jul 08 11:36:13 :) Jul 08 11:36:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR-4VhlsiV8 Jul 08 11:39:56 oh haha! custom cases! Jul 08 11:40:08 well hotdamn Jul 08 11:40:18 * holymoly youtubes again Jul 08 11:40:25 script is refreshing it every 5min and will blurb sizeof(diff -u) here on any changes Jul 08 11:40:35 ScaredyCat, haha! Jul 08 11:41:06 disclaimer: if *.openmoko.* gets overloaded, there could be delay Jul 08 11:41:07 yep, i'm looking forward to custom cases Jul 08 11:41:37 the pic of the playstation controller is brilliant Jul 08 11:41:47 that SERIOUSLY could be fun, a proper controller for games Jul 08 11:41:48 I don't have the skills to create one myself, but... Jul 08 11:41:48 neato Jul 08 11:43:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZC3mjRW5Tg Jul 08 11:44:40 wrong one... Jul 08 11:44:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2hYiO9AU Jul 08 11:46:31 http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=124250 Jul 08 11:46:42 well bludgeon me with a stick Jul 08 11:47:00 i don't even frickin haveto make a kb Jul 08 11:47:05 just a clamshell Jul 08 11:47:38 wtf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxsVFG7jHI8 Jul 08 11:47:50 s:it:openmoko.com: Jul 08 11:48:06 penguin with penguin backpack Jul 08 11:48:15 oh yeah thats real Jul 08 11:48:17 thats from japan Jul 08 11:48:20 its a family pet Jul 08 11:48:25 lol Jul 08 11:48:27 they send it get milk every morning or some such Jul 08 11:48:39 hehehe Jul 08 11:48:48 nice.. Jul 08 11:49:24 my boss wanted a treo Jul 08 11:49:33 but now with that bluetooth .kb *hmmm* Jul 08 11:52:03 oh! usb networking! Jul 08 11:52:04 sweet Jul 08 11:52:25 funny how they've started to reverse iphone :) Jul 08 11:52:42 ?# Jul 08 11:52:43 translation: plug in usb ethernet adapter, walk into office, hack the poor bastards network while waiting for the meeting to begin Jul 08 11:52:45 -# Jul 08 11:55:15 aha it is a mini usb Jul 08 11:55:16 sweet Jul 08 11:56:21 like this guy hacking iPhone to circumvent the AT&T-contract ;-) Jul 08 11:56:37 well they are insane for buying an iphone to begin with Jul 08 11:56:41 i really don't understand people Jul 08 11:57:09 they buy a pair of handcuffs, cuff them selves, swallow the key, then try to figure out how to uncuff them selves Jul 08 11:57:12 i'll never understand that Jul 08 11:57:38 they're deceived by the shiny finish on the handcuffs. Jul 08 11:58:09 Wanting to know how something works can be a very strong motivation Jul 08 12:00:52 counter Jul 08 12:00:52 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 23:59:31 (1.000±1.0 days) (1701;246) Jul 08 12:00:53 ah moko is compatible with my fido service hre in canada Jul 08 12:00:54 nice Jul 08 12:03:41 well, I must confess the GUI is reallllllly nice Jul 08 12:03:41 or fluffy pinkish stuff around ;-))) Jul 08 12:03:41 hehe Jul 08 12:03:41 indeed Jul 08 12:03:42 time to copy the GUI, isn't it? ;-) Jul 08 12:03:44 or even improve it Jul 08 12:11:12 man, if i don't stop googling moko stuff i'll never get some sleep Jul 08 12:11:21 sun is coming out as well so the casket has to be closed Jul 08 12:11:24 see ya'll in a bit Jul 08 12:11:24 :) Jul 08 12:18:59 When tomorrow will it be launched? ;-) Jul 08 12:19:27 nobody knows Jul 08 12:19:54 well, i guess _someone_ knows Jul 08 12:21:05 Marketing&Sales people usually don't hang around in IRC-Channels ;) Jul 08 12:22:16 that's a big mistake ! Jul 08 12:22:54 otherwise p2 wouldn't have teh wifi!1! omg, LOL Jul 08 12:25:50 There were problems finding suitable wifi for P1 Jul 08 12:26:07 ^_^ Jul 08 12:26:13 I remember that time =S Jul 08 12:49:56 counter Jul 08 12:49:57 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 23:34:59 (0.983±1.0 days) (1702;246) Jul 08 12:51:20 any new information about the Neo availability during this past week? Jul 08 12:52:17 nothing that I've heard. Jul 08 12:52:32 still on for tomorrow? Jul 08 12:53:59 as far as I know Jul 08 12:54:18 the .com site still shows Sean's announcement saying tomorrow is the day Jul 08 12:56:45 we need the music from countdown Jul 08 12:59:39 counter Jul 08 12:59:39 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 23:30:08 (0.979±1.0 days) (1703;246) Jul 08 12:59:41 heh Jul 08 13:01:00 I guess there's no guarantee that the site will go live at 00:00 Taipei time Jul 08 13:01:33 Hopefully everything won't be sold-out by the time I wake up to check it again Jul 08 13:08:55 Setup an email noise to go 'bing' Jul 08 13:09:02 and subscribe to announce Jul 08 13:09:52 except I'm not mobile with email :-( Jul 08 13:10:33 does somebody know the utc time of the openmoko release? Jul 08 13:11:06 23:30 hours means it will be released in ~35 hours in germany? Jul 08 13:16:50 I don't think it will be sold out during the first hours any way.. my guess is 300-400 sales the first day, then the rest of the stock in a month. Jul 08 13:20:32 Yep - with a thousand Neos waiting, we should be ok Jul 08 13:20:44 hopefully not though ;) Jul 08 13:22:40 what time in europe is 00:00 in taipei? Jul 08 13:25:55 What is the time in Taipei now? Here it is 15:24 CET Jul 08 13:26:34 21:26 ;) Jul 08 13:26:59 fine Jul 08 13:27:16 counter Jul 08 13:27:16 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 23:16:19 (0.970±1.0 days) (1704;246) Jul 08 14:07:09 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Advertising]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/de]] [[Hardware/de]] Jul 08 14:20:32 guh, probably teh only way to really be sure what gmail is doing to our ML is to strace exim Jul 08 14:27:39 * SpeedEvil passess galexande tcpdump Jul 08 14:28:08 You saw the 'google said it's retrying' message on the ML? Jul 08 14:29:46 yeah Jul 08 14:36:45 denis^da, excuse me but are you dennis harrison? Jul 08 14:37:40 hi Jul 08 14:37:44 hi Jul 08 14:37:50 * CoreDump|home thinks about filtering duped message IDs on his imap Jul 08 14:39:01 counter Jul 08 14:39:01 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 22:40:27 (0.945±0.9 days) (1705;246) Jul 08 14:47:33 Sup3rkiddo, no I'm not :) Jul 08 14:48:00 denis^da, thanks..sorry mate Jul 08 14:48:27 :O Jul 08 14:48:30 DennisHarrison, you are a evil git Jul 08 14:48:31 :P Jul 08 14:48:40 17:48:07 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- This nickname is owned by someone else Jul 08 14:48:43 :O Jul 08 14:48:57 Someone actually owns this nick :DD Jul 08 14:49:09 Sup3rkiddo, no problem Jul 08 14:49:13 DennisHarrison, duh of course Jul 08 14:49:22 denis^da, :) Jul 08 14:49:41 Sup3rkiddo: I own this nick! Jul 08 14:49:44 BUAHHAHAHAHA! Jul 08 14:50:40 * Sup3rkiddo smacks DennisHarrison and curses his credit card go kaput tomorrow Jul 08 14:51:36 * DennisHarrison owns 45 credit cards at 30 different banks Jul 08 14:52:25 i've got 4, i hope it's enough Jul 08 14:52:55 DennisHarrison, let fire engulf your trusted boxen..muhaha Jul 08 14:53:11 =( Jul 08 14:53:35 BTW who's Dennis Harrison? Jul 08 14:55:10 ynezz, dude was talking about asterix on openmoko...had to ping him regarding that Jul 08 15:18:52 what are the chances of device shipping tomorrow ? Jul 08 15:19:38 asterisk not asterix ... Jul 08 15:23:13 :DD Jul 08 15:28:02 tpos happens everytome Jul 08 15:28:11 er..typos, everytime Jul 08 15:28:56 Sup3rkiddo: thought of changing name to typ0kiddo Jul 08 15:29:05 empty_mind, :P Jul 08 15:30:39 'night all. luck to everyone wanting to order a Neo/Neo+ Jul 08 15:35:05 here we are waiting like small kids during christmas...trouble is i have been prettty bad this year, santa is pretty angry Jul 08 15:36:13 lets hope neo arrives tomorow Jul 08 15:39:02 b;ah! Jul 08 15:39:51 ScaredyCat, its speled as b.a.h.! Jul 08 15:39:54 d'oh Jul 08 15:40:00 s/speled/spelledf Jul 08 15:40:03 s/speled/spelled Jul 08 15:40:07 spelt Jul 08 15:40:13 d'oh Jul 08 15:40:17 and it was meant to be blah Jul 08 15:40:25 ScaredyCat, :S Jul 08 15:40:30 openmoko: 03werner * r2372 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: Tentative fix to bring back neo1973 lowlevel_foo Jul 08 15:41:06 lo cesarb Jul 08 15:43:15 ScaredyCat: hi Jul 08 15:43:53 * cesarb is wondering how many hours will it take for all the phones be sold tomorrow Jul 08 15:44:03 I'd guess one hour after the inevitable slashdot article Jul 08 15:44:13 depends if the server crashes under the load ;) Jul 08 15:45:59 counter Jul 08 15:46:00 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 22:06:58 (0.922±0.9 days) (1706;246) Jul 08 15:48:31 I bet there's less demand for orange/white Jul 08 15:48:58 very likely, and I assume it takes a little while for the article to get through slashdot for people to see it? Jul 08 15:49:08 so... peole here should get one, if they're on top of things Jul 08 15:49:29 well, tbh... I'd rather it didn't get throught until I'd got my order confirmation, thanks Jul 08 15:49:45 s/throught/through/ Jul 08 15:49:45 ScaredyCat meant: well, tbh... I'd rather it didn't get through until I'd got my order confirmation, thanks Jul 08 15:50:12 I agree, I'm not ordering one, but people here better get first dibs Jul 08 15:51:45 it looks like only a relatively short run of 1000, from the message on openmoko.com.. Jul 08 15:53:01 right Jul 08 16:00:35 its midnight in Taipei, and openmoko.com has no updates? Jul 08 16:00:55 mbuf: yup :-( I'm in Taiwan at the moment and no changes on the website Jul 08 16:01:04 uh Jul 08 16:01:10 wish I could camp outside their hq :-) Jul 08 16:01:14 <|R|> hehe Jul 08 16:01:14 lol Jul 08 16:01:19 You could. Jul 08 16:01:20 do it Jul 08 16:01:23 I suspect it's going to be 9am US time Jul 08 16:01:25 Their address is public. Jul 08 16:01:27 (nyc) Jul 08 16:01:37 true but I'm about 2 hours away by bus ;-) Jul 08 16:01:55 ScaredyCat: so how many hours later would that be? Jul 08 16:02:02 counter Jul 08 16:02:03 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 21:58:56 (0.916±0.9 days) (1707;246) Jul 08 16:02:11 22 ? Jul 08 16:02:26 noooooooo Jul 08 16:02:27 I duno, it's just a guess Jul 08 16:02:33 true Jul 08 16:03:27 why no go 'ninja' and get yourself a phone ;) Jul 08 16:03:34 lol Jul 08 16:03:48 well my wife is Japanese so I could ask her how to Jul 08 16:03:50 ;-) Jul 08 16:05:44 duffyd: your wife is a ninja? Jul 08 16:06:00 it's not something you learn in an hour :-) Jul 08 16:06:02 loufoque: :-) I wish Jul 08 16:06:25 Not Geisha Jul 08 16:06:35 Jul 08 16:06:40 no Jul 08 16:06:44 lol Jul 08 16:07:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WmF3LLRUQ Jul 08 16:13:47 ScaredyCat: that has got to be one of the biggest embarassments to Japanese on the face of the planet! Jul 08 16:13:55 no way.. Jul 08 16:13:55 funny though :-) Jul 08 16:14:05 * ScaredyCat loves Frank Chickens Jul 08 16:14:43 ScaredyCat: how old is that? Jul 08 16:14:54 very... Jul 08 16:14:57 well Jul 08 16:15:00 looks it Jul 08 16:15:12 early 80's Jul 08 16:15:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ps8n4Hlw4 Jul 08 16:18:55 ScaredyCat: there english is pretty impressive Jul 08 16:19:11 s/there/their Jul 08 16:19:16 there goes my english :-) Jul 08 16:19:59 I think it was actually better than they make out in their songs... Jul 08 16:20:19 ie poor engrish was a bit of a put on Jul 08 16:20:27 ho Jul 08 16:20:28 oh Jul 08 16:21:00 * ScaredyCat brought their album Jul 08 16:21:22 in the early 80;s Jul 08 16:21:25 :) Jul 08 16:23:22 the last few hours are longer than the last few months, of waiting Jul 08 16:23:30 :) Jul 08 16:24:29 yup Jul 08 17:07:51 23h left of Monday at Taipei, 43h left World wide Jul 08 17:09:00 of Monday? Jul 08 17:09:09 ah, ok Jul 08 17:09:50 * ScaredyCat looks at aloril2 Jul 08 17:16:24 so.... I guess the neos aren't on sale on July 9th taiwan time, eh? Jul 08 17:16:24 iceyone: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 17:17:51 lol Jul 08 17:18:53 iceyone: I'm guessing 9am in the usa Jul 08 17:19:09 counter Jul 08 17:19:09 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 21:20:23 (0.889±0.9 days) (1708;246) Jul 08 17:19:20 iceyone: still 23h left of Taipei Monday Jul 08 17:19:31 lol good point Jul 08 17:21:24 ScaredyCat: I'm a little unclear how to read that clock.. Jul 08 17:21:48 does it mean that it's currently 9:20pm on the clock? Jul 08 17:22:07 no, 21 hours, 20 mins, 23 seconds to go Jul 08 17:22:14 counter Jul 08 17:22:15 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 21:18:50 (0.888±0.9 days) (1709;246) Jul 08 17:22:16 oh :-( Jul 08 17:23:49 so, i'm figuring that they'll put it up when they wake up, taiwan time? Jul 08 17:23:56 like 7pm here? Jul 08 17:24:35 well, that depends where 'here' is Jul 08 17:24:40 =) Jul 08 17:25:02 just prompt me for my credit card number already Jul 08 17:25:50 7 hours 40 mins if it's 9am taiwan time, but there's no real clue as to when it'll happen... Jul 08 17:25:53 sadly Jul 08 17:26:17 i said it's 9am taiwan time, so they better have been listening to me Jul 08 17:26:26 lol Jul 08 17:27:05 counter counts until Monday is over at Earth, target is (that-now)/2 - now Jul 08 17:27:28 I got to play with an iPhone Jul 08 17:27:32 pretty nice Jul 08 17:27:39 pretty locked Jul 08 17:27:59 enh, that won't last long - someone's got a shell prompt already, I hear Jul 08 17:28:07 but yeah, I'd rather have a Neo Jul 08 17:28:37 they've got a decent UI though Jul 08 17:28:47 it's what they're good at, after all Jul 08 17:28:53 true Jul 08 17:29:02 I think GTA01 is no competition for the iPhone... GTA02 might be though Jul 08 17:29:06 esp. with the 3D accelerator Jul 08 17:29:18 01 is a developer version... Jul 08 17:29:28 02 is mass market/consumer Jul 08 17:29:47 i think gta01 is the best, it's gonna save me all that ripping-out-the-commercial-UI hassle Jul 08 17:30:26 though I found the iPhone automatic orientation decteion a bit of a pain the butt when trying to view pictures that were actually *taken* sideways Jul 08 17:30:32 why owuld it be a hassle... just compile what you want galexande Jul 08 17:30:34 GTA01 will be supported even when GTA02 will be out ? Jul 08 17:31:02 define supported Jul 08 17:31:03 pjz: hehhe good point Jul 08 17:31:33 scaredy, on the iphone it would be a hassle :) Jul 08 17:31:53 oh, thought you meant between 01 and 02 Jul 08 17:32:42 firmware and software relase depending on posibility of GTA01 ... CPU, GPU ... Jul 08 17:34:16 we're not Nokia. We support older models :D Jul 08 17:35:10 ;) Jul 08 17:36:26 gah Jul 08 17:36:32 never buying a nokia again because of my 7610 Jul 08 17:36:46 Tehy do basic ones very well. Jul 08 17:36:47 http://youtube.com/watch?v=kR-4VhlsiV8 Jul 08 17:36:48 1100 Jul 08 17:36:58 series60 v2 was broken early on and was fixed later but I can't update my phone so I have to deal with things like losing my t9 dictionary on reboot and it hard locking when being used a modem Jul 08 17:38:16 I was informed that apple patented things related to multi-touch so now I can't even read about them Jul 08 17:40:18 well, I think there was a student (in japan?) who did work on multitouch first... Jul 08 17:40:29 so that's prior art Jul 08 17:41:44 . and isn't it in microsoft's table thing too ?# Jul 08 17:43:56 wish there was an RSS feed for the announce list. Jul 08 17:46:05 do you think there could be a use for e-ink somewhere in the neo? Jul 08 17:46:15 see: http://www.eink.com/ Jul 08 17:47:32 i'm hopeful that other devices from FIC will use eink Jul 08 17:48:04 osmosis: gmane has some rss feeds here http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.announce Jul 08 17:49:06 yeah, it's so cool! Jul 08 17:49:10 Eink are bastards. Jul 08 17:49:33 well, even bastards have parents Jul 08 17:49:34 why's that SpeedEvil? Jul 08 17:49:39 They simply will not deal in prototype display film of any sort. Jul 08 17:50:04 I had a nice simple display for e-ink. Jul 08 17:50:21 Basically an electrostatic printer wand, which the eink slotted in. Jul 08 17:50:36 No actual display as such, simply the film. Jul 08 17:50:59 display idea Jul 08 17:52:30 it'd be good for battery life Jul 08 17:52:38 can you overlay it? Jul 08 17:53:47 Overlay it? Jul 08 17:53:53 It's basically opaque Jul 08 17:54:01 oh, ok Jul 08 17:54:24 That's why it's so reflective. Jul 08 17:55:16 ScaredyCat: there are some videos on google that show the mit folks doing multitouch tables for dj stuff + a few modified apps like warcraft 3 Jul 08 18:02:51 niels_: thank you Jul 08 18:03:37 Hello everyone! Jul 08 18:04:40 Anybody have any news on what time we are going to see this thing launch? Jul 08 18:04:40 Jason1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 18:05:46 jason, i have declared with my god-l/ike powers that it will be 9am taiwan time Jul 08 18:06:18 galexande: you obviously don't know Taiwan ;-) Jul 08 18:06:41 galexande: lots of things are *relative* here Jul 08 18:06:49 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Sources_Dialog]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 08 18:07:21 galexande: Are you serious? or is that just speculation?? Jul 08 18:09:29 jason1, are you seriously asking such a question here? :-) everything here is speculation. Well, almost. Jul 08 18:10:07 idarwin: Hell if I know... Thought maybe the important peoplp hung out here... Jul 08 18:10:21 jason, i seriously have declared it, but i am not as god-like as i let on Jul 08 18:10:30 i'm not important Jul 08 18:10:31 demand for phone 5000 people, available today 400 Jul 08 18:10:32 galexande: LOL Jul 08 18:10:49 counter Jul 08 18:10:49 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 20:54:33 (0.871±0.9 days) (1710;246) Jul 08 18:11:18 just another case of this project not meeting up to hype Jul 08 18:13:01 ds1: it will, if only we could delay the hype... Jul 08 18:13:47 yeah, its tough Jul 08 18:13:50 I'll still buy one Jul 08 18:14:02 hype or otherwise, just I'll be about 1800 on the waiting list Jul 08 18:15:23 the important people are too busy working on openmoko to spend time here :-) [not that the developers here are not important in the long term, just not for today's big event] Jul 08 18:17:02 I'm surprised to see this many people sitting in this room Jul 08 18:17:14 there should ba 1000 available today, not 400 ds1 Jul 08 18:17:50 :SCaredCat: Agreed I think another 600 were supposed to be produced shortly after the inital 400 Jul 08 18:18:00 "In our factory in China, 400 Neos are waiting for you all. Another 600 will be ready before next week. More are queued up waiting for us to say go" Jul 08 18:18:06 dated 27 June Jul 08 18:18:18 Hi all! Jul 08 18:18:19 Who are waiting for the shop on openmoko.com? Jul 08 18:18:21 i think there'll be lpenty Jul 08 18:18:39 yeah, no one wants the phone, log off all launch is cancelled ;-) Jul 08 18:18:40 tyrael, none of us, we already have our phones, the release was last week, didn't you hear? Jul 08 18:18:53 well, it wold be daft not to meet developer demand... Jul 08 18:18:54 d'oh Jul 08 18:19:01 lol galexande Jul 08 18:19:06 ;-) Jul 08 18:19:18 i'm just not too scared of 1000 developers buying the phone in the first hour Jul 08 18:19:21 Is this the virtual OpenMoko line? It beats standing outside an Apple store! LOL Jul 08 18:19:25 first hour Jul 08 18:19:25 I'm in Italy. Here the time is 20.19. You? Jul 08 18:19:35 it will be 1st 5 minutes Jul 08 18:19:52 just watch, they haven't forecast the demand on this one well at all Jul 08 18:20:09 iPhone sold a couple hundred thousand in day 1 Jul 08 18:20:32 iPhone was hyped beyond believe Jul 08 18:20:42 the iPhone is the newest indie retard must-have device Jul 08 18:20:50 once you trick the indie kids and the hipsters ... Jul 08 18:21:07 they drink PBR so they can afford macs and iPods Jul 08 18:21:21 dude I drink PBR Jul 08 18:21:27 I drink DFH Jul 08 18:21:27 lol Jul 08 18:21:29 much tastier :-) Jul 08 18:21:44 i drink new belgium brewery beers Jul 08 18:21:57 dogfishhead is two hours from me so I get it fresh and cheap Jul 08 18:21:57 as a matter of a fact, I crushed two PBR last night -- just the american way Jul 08 18:22:04 alternatively I drink unknown_beer Jul 08 18:22:04 jason, your mailing list pessimism has bummed me out Jul 08 18:22:06 oh dear Jul 08 18:22:10 iPhone continues to be hyped beyond belief Jul 08 18:22:29 MacNorth: At this point, so does OpenMoko :) Jul 08 18:22:40 all of the quasi-tech blogs are just wetting themselves to be first to show how to do something simple on the thing Jul 08 18:22:48 MacNorth: weren't you led to believe you would buy this phone before 2007 Jul 08 18:22:53 I want to get clisp running on the openmoko damnit Jul 08 18:23:01 record number of people here Jul 08 18:23:03 MacNorth: and then march Jul 08 18:23:05 quick, port amarok to the neo! Jul 08 18:23:06 personall i'm glad they're debugging it before shipping it. Jul 08 18:23:08 my case finally broke on my ancient 7610 so I kind of need a new phone now too Jul 08 18:23:10 OM is hyped indeed, but hype needs a product, something to hold :-P Jul 08 18:23:30 galexande: I wish they debugged it faster Jul 08 18:23:34 * jedix is happy with his china mobile Jul 08 18:23:35 I feel like the lolcat picture on planet openmoko the other day Jul 08 18:23:52 from the sounds of things, the debugging wasn't the bottleneck Jul 08 18:23:56 MacNorth: "all" the blogs? not this one: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/cyberia Jul 08 18:24:03 Hardware debugging Jul 08 18:24:16 is it quasi-tech? never read it Jul 08 18:24:38 depends on how quasi-tech you mean. Jack's been writing about computer tech for 15 years. Jul 08 18:24:45 Anybody know why they are just now expanding hte OpenMoko team? Moving offices, hiring folks.... Seems like they would have done all that manymonths ago Jul 08 18:24:59 jason1: money? Jul 08 18:25:07 sounds pretty experienced to be quasi-tech. i love defining my problems away :-D Jul 08 18:25:07 did you read email Jul 08 18:25:43 no problem in CS cannot be solved by... changing the definitions? Jul 08 18:26:02 ScaredyCat: Yeah I read Seans email. From what i gathered, they *finally* convinced upper management that OpenMoko was worthwhile, and are late to building the team.. Jul 08 18:26:07 just my opinoin Jul 08 18:26:09 idarwin: ...enough napalm. Jul 08 18:26:42 if you say so Jul 08 18:27:21 openmoko.com is getting slower... Jul 08 18:27:52 not for me... Jul 08 18:28:32 There needs to be a traffic graph Jul 08 18:28:49 * SpeedEvil ponders adding one. Jul 08 18:29:26 woot! netherlands in openstreetmap! I live there :) Jul 08 18:29:36 :) Jul 08 18:33:23 how about a "counter" page to measure the productivity loss of people hanging around waiting for the sales page to go online? :-) Jul 08 18:34:22 ScaredyCat: dies Jul 08 18:34:29 s/s// Jul 08 18:34:30 FuzzyCat meant: ScaredyCat: die Jul 08 18:38:06 http://biagi.miniville.fr/sec Jul 08 18:39:05 Im getting a 404 on OpenMOko.com Jul 08 18:39:18 me too Jul 08 18:39:24 Perhaps they are switching pages???? Jul 08 18:39:25 oooeeeoooo Jul 08 18:39:33 * FuzzyCat gets wallet Jul 08 18:39:37 yeah!!! come one baby!!! Jul 08 18:39:38 Maybe it's broken because everyone is hammering it... Jul 08 18:39:59 that doesn't usually render a 404 Jul 08 18:40:05 no.. Jul 08 18:40:13 Its up!!! Jul 08 18:40:14 its up ;) Jul 08 18:40:16 w0t it uo!!! Jul 08 18:40:31 or they got tired of being dosed Jul 08 18:40:33 passwors Jul 08 18:40:37 password on shop Jul 08 18:40:40 :( Jul 08 18:40:42 No shopping allowed yt though.... Jul 08 18:41:04 Wonder how many people just pressed the "Shop" button Jul 08 18:41:14 lol Jul 08 18:41:26 I pressed the buy it now button too Jul 08 18:41:32 who wants to tell me the pw Jul 08 18:41:52 what the login!!! Jul 08 18:41:54 ??? Jul 08 18:41:55 galexande: it's admin and password Jul 08 18:41:57 ;) Jul 08 18:42:07 hey guys Jul 08 18:42:10 Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) PHP/5.2.0-8+etch4 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c Server at direct.openmoko.com Port 443 Jul 08 18:42:18 So what's the benefit from the developers kit as opposed to the base model (apart from the nice box, of course)? If you're looking to develop software is there any need for the developers kit? Jul 08 18:42:19 * FuzzyCat just saw the advanced kit.. Jul 08 18:42:25 that's like a suitcase Jul 08 18:42:49 (script) http://openmoko.com changed: sizeof(diff -u)=17909 Jul 08 18:43:09 what time is the phone released? Jul 08 18:43:09 andylockran: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 18:43:11 it slow Jul 08 18:43:49 andylockran: there's a dev version any time now... and a consumer (mass market) due in october Jul 08 18:43:59 jgm: software alone? No. Want to mess with the internals of, say, u-boot, yes Jul 08 18:44:30 Aria: thanks, sounds like the base version for me then Jul 08 18:44:33 yeah, most people would probably want the standard version Jul 08 18:44:37 FuzzyCat: yeah, I've been keeping up to date with the lists - was just wondering if Sean confirmed the exact time Jul 08 18:44:53 no, nothing, shop is semi-live Jul 08 18:45:02 we just need the magic cookie ;) Jul 08 18:45:03 unless you REALLY want that cool plastic box Jul 08 18:45:34 Any confirmation on if GTA01 can be updated to GTA02 via a mobo change - or will it have to be to buy the whole phone Jul 08 18:45:39 (sorry for the 20 questions) Jul 08 18:45:46 I'm sorry guys, I'm taking my laptop into the toilet Jul 08 18:46:00 FuzzyCat: desperate to be on eof the first? Jul 08 18:46:09 FuzzyCat: you could have done that without telling us, you know Jul 08 18:46:30 hmm i wonder how many bad pws before their webserver won't talk to me anymore Jul 08 18:46:46 I like to share jgm... in he spirit of being open :) Jul 08 18:46:46 andy,so far it's only been announced that you can buy the whole thing Jul 08 18:47:02 Great, now he's talking about being open... Jul 08 18:47:34 i want the toolbox with my neo-base :) Jul 08 18:47:47 xD Jul 08 18:47:50 do i want orange or gray, i have no idea how to make such an important decision!!! Jul 08 18:47:58 One of each, just to be sure Jul 08 18:48:12 can you enter in the shop?? Jul 08 18:48:20 go for the orange, less people want them, more available Jul 08 18:48:34 * cjb has both already, and prefers the orange. Jul 08 18:48:48 /everyone slaps cjb Jul 08 18:48:49 though the black does look a lot like an iPhone, if you like that sort of thing. Jul 08 18:48:50 Buy an orange., That way there is a grey available for me :) Jul 08 18:48:50 :) Jul 08 18:48:53 how many colors there are? Jul 08 18:49:01 2 colors Jul 08 18:49:07 only other question - say I buy the phone today (or tomorrow, as it may be) will I be able to use the GPS to direct me to a place in france - or should I wait til october before I can expect that functionality? Jul 08 18:49:11 gray and orange. thanks Jul 08 18:49:27 andylockran: no it wont be of much use right now Jul 08 18:49:35 andy, the hardware is all there in gta01, but i haven't found any gps software yet Jul 08 18:49:43 until you open the casing, and add your own? Jul 08 18:49:49 galexande: it's preloaded on the flash. Jul 08 18:49:54 "gllin" in /root/gps. Jul 08 18:50:00 cjb, is it graphical? Jul 08 18:50:04 this version isn't ready for that yet.. Jul 08 18:50:07 no, it outputs NMEA. Jul 08 18:50:11 cjb, yeah that's what i thought :) Jul 08 18:50:30 ok - I think my decision is made.. i'm gonna let the developers get their hands on it first Jul 08 18:50:37 I suppose you could use it as an expensive bt gps Jul 08 18:50:53 what is the username and password , asking for magic cookie Jul 08 18:51:07 openmoko.com is ready for purchase! Jul 08 18:51:08 I like the look of the site :p Jul 08 18:51:42 This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required. <-- i think this site is ugly Jul 08 18:51:43 I'm going crazyyyyyyy Jul 08 18:51:54 Seannnnnnnn Jul 08 18:51:58 btw, are the battery-problems sorted out? (charging completely discharged battery/charging with dumb usb-charger/etc...) Jul 08 18:52:03 galexande: wtf are you on about Jul 08 18:52:04 tick ... tick .... tick Jul 08 18:52:50 the web dev's probably have their http auth cached :) Jul 08 18:53:29 hahaha they rpobably wonder why teh orders aren't coming in Jul 08 18:53:30 it's probably to stop retards like me ordering just yet Jul 08 18:54:17 erkk the orange ones don't look right Jul 08 18:54:20 That stylus looks awesome Jul 08 18:54:30 yes Jul 08 18:54:45 jeddy3: mostly. Jul 08 18:55:03 So, how many of you guys are going to start carrying your OpenMoko around your neck? Jul 08 18:55:08 "only for developers" ==> those who can get past an apache .htaccess?? :-) Jul 08 18:55:20 i wonder if they've really dropped the ac charger Jul 08 18:55:26 SpeedEvil, ok ty Jul 08 18:55:30 Jason1: I'm gonna carry the freaking suticase :) Jul 08 18:55:46 it goes in my pocket with my keys, it's a cellphone Jul 08 18:55:52 FuzzyCat> I think you might have alot of missed calls. Jul 08 18:56:03 It's plastic Jul 08 18:56:06 dropped the ac charger? Jul 08 18:56:09 should get calls through Jul 08 18:56:24 there's one in the pic with the advnaced kit Jul 08 18:56:28 galexande: They give you a lanyard, you mUST wear it around your neck! All the coolkids are doing it :) Jul 08 18:56:32 No reason you couldn't wear the case round your neck. Jul 08 18:56:36 :) Jul 08 18:56:38 lol Jul 08 18:56:39 lanyards rock Jul 08 18:56:45 once you get used to 'em Jul 08 18:56:51 thhe announce email said it would have an ac charger in the basic, but the website doesn't. Jul 08 18:56:53 Jason1: I like that- use the lanyard for the suitcase - shows your a hardcore dev Jul 08 18:56:54 counter Jul 08 18:56:54 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 20:31:30 (0.855±0.9 days) (1711;246) Jul 08 18:56:56 fill it with cement first SpeedEvil? Jul 08 18:57:01 LOL Jul 08 18:57:07 presumably i can just hack a usb connector onto one of the nokia chargers sitting around here Jul 08 18:57:22 FuzzyCat: Naah - that's only for the Ninja developer kit. Jul 08 18:57:30 or get an ac-usb adapter.. come with most ipod-mini 3rd party chargers Jul 08 18:57:53 grrr you'd think they'd get bored of asking for my password Jul 08 18:57:58 Heh, I have a handful of AC-USB adapters, thanks to Blackberry. Jul 08 18:58:22 put them on ebay as openmoko chargers Aria ;) Jul 08 18:58:27 i'm not having any luck guessing it, why can't they use simple passwords like 'test' Jul 08 18:58:28 Hee Jul 08 18:58:30 Aria: set up another openmoko ac adapter shop :p Jul 08 18:59:00 what were the iphone passwords.. perhaps they're being ironic? Jul 08 18:59:03 galexande: admin admin Jul 08 18:59:32 FuzzyCat: Dont tease us :) Jul 08 18:59:35 ebay: 4538 items found for usb car charger (I had to check) :'( Jul 08 18:59:37 I tried user: cthulhu Jul 08 18:59:38 pass: fthang Jul 08 18:59:38 but it doesn't work Jul 08 18:59:53 we're justnot smart enough, we don't deserve the neo Jul 08 19:00:34 this is a fantastic captcha... only the righteous will pass Jul 08 19:00:40 galexande: Ahhh. I all makes sense. It is a test. Only those worthy of the neo will get one. Jul 08 19:00:52 Start hacking Jul 08 19:01:18 ahhh ... we're not worthy... must mean the password is Waynes Wrold Jul 08 19:01:22 World Jul 08 19:02:10 Lets hope they open the store before morning. Otherwise it is going to be a long wait :) Jul 08 19:02:19 It is like 2am in Taiwan, right? Jul 08 19:02:37 !google taiwan time Jul 08 19:02:37 03:02 Jul 08 19:02:39 Taiwan -- Current local time: 3:02 AM on Monday, July 9 @ Jul 08 19:02:40 | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 | Taiwan @ http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/asia/taiwan/%20class=l Jul 08 19:02:41 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ Jul 08 19:02:49 for whatever reason, the server info string just changed on the error page.. Jul 08 19:02:54 I think we're all becoming a bit obsessed... Jul 08 19:02:56 so they are probably working on it Jul 08 19:03:05 !google obsession for nerds Jul 08 19:03:05 Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 | communicatrix » Blog Archive » Nerd Lo @ http://www.communicatrix.com/2007/02/nerd-love-16-keys.html%20class=l | I Love Nerds - I Heart Dorks T-Shirt : @ http://www.cafepress.com/wackywade/1125333%20class=l Jul 08 19:03:18 ell, they must be, cos they just changed the site... Jul 08 19:03:20 unable to access "shop" page. is anyone else having this problem? Jul 08 19:03:20 Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c Server at direct.openmoko.com Port 443 Jul 08 19:03:30 DukeOfURL: yeah, not started yet... Jul 08 19:03:38 Store is not open yet... Jul 08 19:03:39 guys, relax. the authorities are working on the shop. it'll take some more hours. please don't hammer Jul 08 19:03:43 I think that they are recording all the tries and they are laughing Jul 08 19:03:48 just the products page to tease us :) Jul 08 19:03:55 heh Jul 08 19:03:57 Tyrael: probably Jul 08 19:04:00 the site looks quite cool... Jul 08 19:04:01 counter Jul 08 19:04:01 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 20:27:57 (0.853±0.9 days) (1712;246) Jul 08 19:04:05 simmer down now! Jul 08 19:04:24 looks awesome. some of hte large pictures dont fit on my 1280x800 display though Jul 08 19:04:25 mickey, if you promise to announce in the channel before they're all sold out, i'll stop hitting refresh :) Jul 08 19:04:31 * andylockran is simmering... Jul 08 19:04:31 Who id going to order more then ONE Neo now (black & orange)? Jul 08 19:04:43 I'll announce AFTER I order mine... Jul 08 19:04:55 I don't think there has been any announce of other than black/silver Jul 08 19:04:56 http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=openmoko&word2=twatish+iphone Jul 08 19:05:23 also user: iphone pass: sucks, don't work :( Jul 08 19:05:33 there seems to be press release "Openmoko goes live" dated July 9 in openmoko.com, but the link does not work Jul 08 19:06:03 Anyone from the UK waiting? Jul 08 19:06:14 I'm from the uk.. Jul 08 19:06:16 damn....that seems pretty steep for this phone too and i really wanted it Jul 08 19:06:18 * SpeedEvil puts his hands up. Jul 08 19:06:18 but I'm in .nl Jul 08 19:06:25 Just ONE for me... Jul 08 19:06:28 optiq: which? Jul 08 19:06:49 300USD is like 45pence Jul 08 19:07:10 Are there plans to sell protective cases for the GTA02? I usually carry phone and keys in the same pocket. Jul 08 19:07:30 It comes with a pouch... Jul 08 19:07:37 Cool Jul 08 19:07:49 a posing pouch... Jul 08 19:07:49 if it catches on at all, there are several companies which are pretty good about releasing little hard cases for everything Jul 08 19:07:56 ninHer: did oyu see the picks of hte pouch? Jul 08 19:08:28 anyone used an 8GB miniSD card with the neo yet? Jul 08 19:08:34 niels_: Arent you going to wear it arond your neck ?!? :) Jul 08 19:09:05 andylockran: only successes so far reported are 2,1 Jul 08 19:09:09 Jason1: Not while I am dressed Jul 08 19:09:15 openmoko for $300 :( Jul 08 19:09:16 Sorry.. Jul 08 19:09:20 ninHer: ROFL Jul 08 19:09:21 *shudder* Jul 08 19:09:22 andylockran: nobodies done 4 and 8 isn't obtainable Jul 08 19:09:24 optiq: why is that sad? Jul 08 19:09:35 more than I want to spend on a new phone right now Jul 08 19:09:39 optiq: compare with similar unsubbed phones Jul 08 19:09:44 in how far is, say Google Maps data freely available, so that we could write a GPS application ?? just an idea Jul 08 19:09:48 there are no similar phones Jul 08 19:09:50 and i cant get my carrier to subsidize it like it normally would with other phones Jul 08 19:09:52 DeVol: it is not. Jul 08 19:09:59 galexande: there are quite similar phones. Jul 08 19:10:10 but seriously, $300 is a great price for even a palmtop of similar specs, i mean 640x480?? you don't even see that in the iphone Jul 08 19:10:12 and it's like $600 Jul 08 19:10:15 DeVol: if you have web access, you can stick the current GPS coords into maps.google.com, that would work Jul 08 19:10:17 galexande: large touchscreen, no wifi, but they all have cameras. Jul 08 19:10:17 google maps data is freely available from a webbrowser Jul 08 19:10:23 DeVol: but no offline access, openstreetmap is as close as you'll get, I guess. Jul 08 19:10:32 cjb: there is no map supplier that will sell raw data i suppose Jul 08 19:10:44 DeVol: there are many. google has a license with one. Jul 08 19:10:46 look at navit. Jul 08 19:10:47 DeVol: not for sensible money Jul 08 19:10:53 DeVol: such licenses usually run in the millions of dollars. Jul 08 19:11:18 FYI Michael Lauer on the community list says: Jul 08 19:11:23 millions of dollars? that's like 80 pence these days Jul 08 19:11:27 Team is still working on the site, please don't hammer. Jul 08 19:11:27 Thanks! Jul 08 19:11:30 there's rumour that navit can use garmin maps Jul 08 19:12:05 Spend your time mapping for openstreetmap instead of hammering mickey's site waiting for the store to open. then osm will be more usable. Jul 08 19:12:08 Use, and legally use is another question. Jul 08 19:12:11 idarwin++ Jul 08 19:12:22 openstreetmap first time i hear about it Jul 08 19:12:29 my village isnt even on it :P Jul 08 19:12:30 htt-p://www.openstreetmap.lorg/ Jul 08 19:12:34 ping mbuf Jul 08 19:12:36 won't be the last. Jul 08 19:12:37 http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Jul 08 19:12:44 minnam, pong Jul 08 19:12:48 My local town - 40K wasn't on it. Jul 08 19:13:01 My nearby city - 140K - had one and only one street. Jul 08 19:13:12 hm any german here who would be interested in a order of 2 devices to reduce shipping costs? Jul 08 19:13:15 hey I own an iphone .. I think we can implement equivalent gesture browsing functionality without violating their patents Jul 08 19:13:22 DeVol: it's generated by people like you. so, if people in your village aren't helping, that's unsurprising. Jul 08 19:13:31 cjb; so i see Jul 08 19:13:31 SpeedEvil: :FF Jul 08 19:13:35 Tricky: you're wrong. Jul 08 19:13:41 Tricky: in any case, the touchscreen is just not multitouch. Jul 08 19:13:49 so, no, you can't, without different hardware. Jul 08 19:13:59 without multi touch -- using single touch Jul 08 19:14:11 Basheri: :FF? Jul 08 19:14:30 SpeedEvil : My nearby city - 140K - had one and only one street. Jul 08 19:14:37 ah. sure, you can work on single-touch gestures if you like. Jul 08 19:14:47 Basheri: I was wondering what :FF meant Jul 08 19:14:52 Anybody know what role "Michael Lauer " plays on the OpenMoko team? Jul 08 19:15:05 Jason1: Ninja! Jul 08 19:15:09 SpeedEvil: nevermind Jul 08 19:15:14 :P Jul 08 19:15:16 like this to shrink a page press on one of the 4 corners and drag towards center Jul 08 19:15:22 Jason1: Mickey Lauer -- Lead Framework / Application Architect Jul 08 19:15:22 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Meet_the_Core_Team Jul 08 19:15:29 (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: OPENMOKO.COM IS UP Jul 08 19:15:39 lol Jul 08 19:15:43 hi Jul 08 19:15:47 :)) Jul 08 19:15:49 that's soooo last week aloril ;) Jul 08 19:16:41 :) Jul 08 19:16:57 to expand press the middle of one of the top or bottom sides of the screen's square and drag to any of the two corners on either side Jul 08 19:17:26 * SpeedEvil finds the 'buy now' link on openmoko.com! Jul 08 19:17:34 it doens;t work Jul 08 19:17:39 and to move around the page .. touch the center and drag whichever where you want to scroll about in the page (horizontal, vertical) Jul 08 19:17:43 * FuzzyCat slaps SpeedEvil Jul 08 19:17:52 OMG - the wiki password Jul 08 19:17:55 doesn't work at all. Jul 08 19:18:05 lol Jul 08 19:18:06 whats that magic cookie? Jul 08 19:18:11 * koen|inverness spots a webshop Jul 08 19:18:11 * cjb thinks that the Neo does not, in fact, have a 266HZ CPU Jul 08 19:18:15 jesus Jul 08 19:18:17 (http://openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html) Jul 08 19:18:27 long cookie Jul 08 19:19:06 And what the hell does "high quality codec" mean? Jul 08 19:19:16 Oh - GSM codec prolly Jul 08 19:19:17 Means the sound quality doesn't suck? Jul 08 19:19:34 password is SpringBoard Jul 08 19:19:50 we also need to support Live Video Share Jul 08 19:20:08 800x600 screens Jul 08 19:20:14 username? Jul 08 19:20:32 sjobs Jul 08 19:20:40 LOL Jul 08 19:20:43 cjb: why not? Jul 08 19:20:43 * SpeedEvil gets out his stabbing hammer. Jul 08 19:21:47 266Hz is 266 cycles per second Jul 08 19:21:55 CPUs have not been that slow since 1940 Jul 08 19:22:03 1945 maybe Jul 08 19:22:20 i'll buy one at 266hz, come on what are you whining about Jul 08 19:22:24 mickeyl: are you serious? :) Jul 08 19:22:26 an abacus? Jul 08 19:22:40 266Hz would be powersaving Jul 08 19:22:46 lol Jul 08 19:22:52 mickeyl: they spotted a typo... Jul 08 19:23:13 hmm Jul 08 19:23:14 oh Jul 08 19:23:18 MHz Jul 08 19:23:19 lol Jul 08 19:23:20 :) Jul 08 19:23:23 yup :) Jul 08 19:23:27 hehe Jul 08 19:23:35 typospot, http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html , "We even though in extra batteries", should probably be throw Jul 08 19:23:49 what happened to the host mode usb cable Jul 08 19:24:04 mhr: I saw that too. Jul 08 19:24:36 RAM and 64 MB NAND Flash with an SDIO-capable microSD card. As a bonus, we Jul 08 19:24:43 SDIO should prolly be deleted Jul 08 19:24:58 http://openmoko.com/products-neo-base-03-hardware.html Jul 08 19:25:07 technically SDIO has a storage profile Jul 08 19:27:04 I thought microSD cards couldn't be SDIO Jul 08 19:27:22 thomasg_gpm: if you don't mind I'm from Czechia... Jul 08 19:27:46 ynezz, near germany? Jul 08 19:27:52 lol Jul 08 19:28:04 no it's in US Jul 08 19:28:04 I do not mean czechia, I mean the place you live in czechia :) Jul 08 19:28:34 nope, but the shipping cost is same i think Jul 08 19:29:26 well, in the main pic of the advanced kit top left corner, looks more like a standard SD card to me Jul 08 19:29:30 ah, ok. but live about 200km westwards of pilzen Jul 08 19:29:36 *but I live... Jul 08 19:29:57 sandisk one Jul 08 19:30:00 fuzzycat rtfp (fine print) - in the picture Jul 08 19:30:05 and i like 500km east from pilzen :) Jul 08 19:30:08 how much VAT is on products in czechia ynezz? Jul 08 19:30:28 22 or 19 i think Jul 08 19:30:37 * SpeedEvil wonders if the cookie is a reference to http://www.multicians.org/cookie.html Jul 08 19:31:05 hm, ok, we have 19% Jul 08 19:31:10 mickeyl: When are you aiming to have the store open? Jul 08 19:31:27 he already said in a few hours, please be patient Jul 08 19:31:42 sorry missed that part. Jul 08 19:32:22 nice website, i like it Jul 08 19:33:07 yes, looks really nice Jul 08 19:33:11 isn't there a country in the EU with VAT under 10%? :) Jul 08 19:33:38 does anyone own a neonode 1973? Jul 08 19:33:40 Better 22% VAT than 30% income tax like here Jul 08 19:33:45 we should all move there then thomasg_gpm Jul 08 19:33:47 :) Jul 08 19:33:55 only 30% tax? Jul 08 19:34:05 maybe .sk, it should be 15% Jul 08 19:34:08 the high footing is 50% over here Jul 08 19:34:13 he means sales tax Jul 08 19:34:19 can someone explain the different shipping options to me? Jul 08 19:34:19 wz pingu^ Jul 08 19:34:25 not income tax koen|inverness Jul 08 19:34:43 wait Jul 08 19:34:44 not Jul 08 19:34:53 alech: no Jul 08 19:34:54 is there any price on shipping to Portugal ? Jul 08 19:35:06 Tricky, Neonode and Neo1973 are two completely different phones from different manufacturers Jul 08 19:35:07 Everyone wait a few hours. Jul 08 19:35:13 GOT MINE ORDERED!!!!!!! Jul 08 19:35:15 Then it'll be annouced. Jul 08 19:35:26 don't load!!! Jul 08 19:35:54 check for the shop Jul 08 19:35:59 Openmoko Online Shop - Step 3/3 (complete) Jul 08 19:35:59 Your Order request has been processed. Jul 08 19:35:59 You will receive a confirmation email within 24 hours. Jul 08 19:36:33 congratulations to all new Neo owners =) Jul 08 19:36:35 oh shi- Jul 08 19:36:38 * CM just saw the same :-D Jul 08 19:36:59 whats wordwide express? Jul 08 19:37:02 Sweet :) Jul 08 19:37:07 hm..would be nice if there would be some information on shipment-costs before the actual ordering-form Jul 08 19:37:07 * SpeedEvil checks bank balance, and sighs. Jul 08 19:37:22 also on payment... Jul 08 19:37:28 slider_: I think it's different depending on the country Jul 08 19:37:44 And yes, should say it's only Visa and AmEx Jul 08 19:37:49 (script) planet: Jon Phillips: OpenMoko Ads http://rejon.org/2007/07/08/openmoko-ads/ Jul 08 19:37:50 the shipping options look like ups to me Jul 08 19:37:58 well $170 is quite a lot for me :) Jul 08 19:38:04 for shipping I mean Jul 08 19:38:07 damn Jul 08 19:38:10 hm, there are no shipping costs in the shop? Jul 08 19:38:19 It was 82 for me, to Sweden Jul 08 19:38:20 My shipping 51.08 USD for next day air Jul 08 19:38:25 (they have "Worldwide Express", "Worldwide Saver", "Worldwide Expedited" to me Jul 08 19:38:40 how much is it to .de Jul 08 19:38:56 "shop" crashed: Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Net/UPS.pm line 240. Jul 08 19:38:56 $71.85 USD Jul 08 19:38:59 Sigh. Got no CC at the moment, so can't order that way either. Jul 08 19:39:03 no colour choice? Jul 08 19:39:06 is that UPS speak for "pay vat once, twice or three times"? Jul 08 19:39:15 aloril, hmh, want to order together to try to save on shipping? did you live in Hki? Jul 08 19:39:37 CM, with what kind of shipping alternative? Jul 08 19:39:52 jeddy3: THat was the Worldwide express Jul 08 19:39:59 yay Jul 08 19:40:09 Looked again, was $81.04 Jul 08 19:40:11 Any UK people here want to share shipping? Jul 08 19:40:22 aaaaarrrgghh, why just visa and american express, why not mastercard ??? Jul 08 19:40:27 * FuzzyCat decides to tell the wife when it arrives Jul 08 19:40:43 any other finns around? Jul 08 19:40:48 here Jul 08 19:41:09 germans here -- wants to order together? Jul 08 19:41:11 dutch ppl around perhaps? Jul 08 19:41:11 yes Jul 08 19:41:13 hi peter Jul 08 19:41:15 CM, you got the prices for other options? Jul 08 19:41:19 I wrote you to e-mails :) Jul 08 19:41:21 french people around ? Jul 08 19:41:23 *two Jul 08 19:41:25 hi Jul 08 19:41:36 aloril2, yoohoo? Jul 08 19:41:43 duke, what country are you in? I suspect some countries get that if they don't have shipping info in place yet?? I got it the crash too, I'm in Canada. Jul 08 19:41:47 all germans who are interested in group purchase: go to #neo1973-germany Jul 08 19:41:53 jeddy3: I can't remember, but they were something like 90 and 96 USD Jul 08 19:42:06 idarwin: in Colorado Jul 08 19:42:21 CM _saver_ is more expensive than express? :) Jul 08 19:42:22 i has an order numbe :D Jul 08 19:42:38 Basheri, soo. Where did you live and would you like to team up and what would you like? Jul 08 19:42:38 shoots down my theory. others are getting orders in, not us. Jul 08 19:42:44 jeddy3: Yes, by about 10 usd :-D Jul 08 19:42:47 i have a hard time believing there have already been 1800+ orders already going by the numbers D: Jul 08 19:42:52 FuzzyCat: awesome! me too! Jul 08 19:42:53 the CID/CVV2 is 7 or 3 long? i put all the 7 Jul 08 19:42:56 3 Jul 08 19:42:57 CM hehe, okay :P Jul 08 19:43:01 i entered shipping instructions and got a blank page in reply Jul 08 19:43:02 3 long Jul 08 19:43:21 the first 4 aren't the last 4 numer of the card? Jul 08 19:43:37 From Sean Jul 08 19:43:38 Dear Community! Jul 08 19:43:39 Today is the day that we've all been waiting for: We can finally take Jul 08 19:43:39 your order for the world's first freed phone. Jul 08 19:43:39 Neos are waiting in customs just outside our factory in SuZhou. Early Jul 08 19:43:39 this week, they will start their journey to FIC America in Fremont, Jul 08 19:43:40 You cannot order more than 11, sorry. Jul 08 19:43:40 California. We're sending them by air so they should arrive really fast. Jul 08 19:43:42 they might be, but cvv/cvc2 is always last group of 3 digits on back Jul 08 19:43:42 (We'll update you as soon as we know more tracking information.) Jul 08 19:43:44 Get them while they're still hot ;-) Jul 08 19:43:46  http://www.openmoko.com Jul 08 19:43:48 Right now we only have the credit card payment option in place. Later Jul 08 19:43:50 this week we should be able to take wire transfers. Jul 08 19:43:52 Now, "Free Your Phone." Jul 08 19:43:52 mjr: don't live in Helsinki Jul 08 19:43:54 -OpenMoko / FIC Jul 08 19:44:18 what, can't get more than 11 of them? Jul 08 19:44:18 anrp: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 19:44:25 how is it supposed to take over the world then, D: Jul 08 19:44:34 aloril2, ah well Jul 08 19:44:36 I avoided the åäö that I have in my address to not risk a page failure on that Jul 08 19:44:39 seriously, I do not want mine to be orange! Jul 08 19:44:54 mjr: Well, i can't buy one :F Jul 08 19:44:57 ahh wire-transfer. this will ease up the fact that the university is paying for my phone :) Jul 08 19:45:03 FuzzyCat, aren't you gonna change the case? Jul 08 19:45:08 Basheri, righto Jul 08 19:45:08 * SpeedEvil can't buy one either. Jul 08 19:45:16 bah, maybe I'll just order away Jul 08 19:45:17 anrp: if more than 11 occupy the same space the univers collapses Jul 08 19:45:26 Your order has been Jul 08 19:45:26 assigned an ID of [rt.internal.openmoko.org #1823]. Jul 08 19:45:28 O_O Jul 08 19:45:32 1823??? Jul 08 19:45:39 mbuf: what options... SpeedEvil hasn;t made them yet ;) Jul 08 19:45:39 i got the one after you Jul 08 19:45:52 and afaik there is no place to specify the color Jul 08 19:45:55 so..? Jul 08 19:46:07 Tyrael: that's a bugtracker ticket number; it includes the bug reports etc. Jul 08 19:46:17 Jason1: the order page returns a blank reply Jul 08 19:46:17 Regarding high numbers. The request tracker was used before. Jul 08 19:46:30 ah Jul 08 19:46:35 so, I'm an "issue" Jul 08 19:46:37 alrighty then >_> Jul 08 19:46:39 mjr: You don't know how pissed i am right now, but i just don't have enough money =( Jul 08 19:46:39 oh great... before the shop open do you know at what number it was? Jul 08 19:46:49 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Get them while they're still hot! Jul 08 19:46:53 Duke:; I didnt experience that... Jul 08 19:46:56 yes, I now get a blank page too. they're getting further. Jul 08 19:47:11 Tyrael: No idea. Sorry. Jul 08 19:47:16 woo my order has been processed!! Jul 08 19:47:22 aloril: Shouldn't we have an "P1 owner" page on the wiki now instead of the buying interest list? Jul 08 19:47:22 Tyrael: But it seems you guys are the first... Jul 08 19:47:25 ;) Jul 08 19:47:25 counter Jul 08 19:47:25 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 20:06:15 (0.838±0.8 days) (1713;246) Jul 08 19:47:26 Nuts. I'm getting that blank page too. Jul 08 19:47:39 it seems advanced doesn't have host cable? Jul 08 19:47:42 mm? Jul 08 19:47:47 maybe i just got lucky... Jul 08 19:47:52 i was 1824 Jul 08 19:47:54 aloril2: I noticed that.. Jul 08 19:47:56 :/ Jul 08 19:48:02 CM, go for it ;) Jul 08 19:48:07 anrp: Congrats!!!! Jul 08 19:48:27 set opera to reload/15s.... still nothing ;( Jul 08 19:48:44 #1844 Jul 08 19:48:46 hmmm.. no master card Jul 08 19:48:52 geez here we go Jul 08 19:49:00 from my count, about 24 have been sold. Jul 08 19:49:01 hmmm... no master card?? Jul 08 19:49:17 can we use VISA debit card? Jul 08 19:49:18 store crash?? Jul 08 19:49:28 mindCrime: People have been saying Amex or Visa only Jul 08 19:49:33 * gcb77 #1832 Jul 08 19:49:41 minnam: Wire transfer are coming next week Jul 08 19:49:43 I hope its real Jul 08 19:49:46 * mindCrime looks around... Jul 08 19:49:56 * mindCrime goes back to lurking... Jul 08 19:50:04 if you can use the visa debit without a pin, then yes minnam Jul 08 19:50:08 minnam: If it has a VISA logo, my guess is that it would work Jul 08 19:50:11 ... just ordered :) Jul 08 19:50:13 * sannes wonders what the lowest order number is Jul 08 19:50:22 U just picked up 2, if someone is counting (#1839) Jul 08 19:50:23 i rather wonder how long it will go up tonight Jul 08 19:50:26 alech: Awesome! Jul 08 19:50:26 s/U/I/ Jul 08 19:50:28 jgm meant: I just picked up 2, if someone is counting (#1839) Jul 08 19:50:39 ? Jul 08 19:50:46 ... wow, a sed bot Jul 08 19:50:52 order request has been processed Jul 08 19:50:52 yes, shipping is more expensive than I thought, but what the hell ... Jul 08 19:50:57 apt: cool. I think we started at 1820-ish Jul 08 19:51:11 alech: its only money, right? Jul 08 19:51:17 right ;-) Jul 08 19:51:20 Woot. US$17 for 3-day select to Colorado Jul 08 19:51:26 stefan_schmidt: REally? Jul 08 19:51:27 he who dies with the most toys wins Jul 08 19:51:37 was least bored Jul 08 19:51:40 *sigh* shipping was mighty expensive Jul 08 19:51:43 Aria: wtf! Jul 08 19:51:45 * galexande pokes his head outside to look for the mailman Jul 08 19:51:52 lol Jul 08 19:51:58 mm. since the color isn't specified in the order, is the guys operating the site going to grab color prefs out of the wiki page? Jul 08 19:52:04 * anrp tries Jul 08 19:52:05 s/is/are Jul 08 19:52:14 Aria: I paid 51.09 for NextDay to Illinois Jul 08 19:52:17 Suspect there may be a follow-up email Jul 08 19:52:33 all germans who are interested in group purchase: go to #neo1973-germany Jul 08 19:52:34 anrp: malformed, try again Jul 08 19:52:37 who is the shipper? Jul 08 19:52:41 dhl or ups? Jul 08 19:52:42 is it counting down from 2000? :) Jul 08 19:52:44 ;/ it's not that important Jul 08 19:52:48 3 day select is a ups service Jul 08 19:52:49 #1841 Jul 08 19:52:50 FuzzyCat: appears to be UPS Jul 08 19:52:50 so prob ups Jul 08 19:52:59 Yeah, UPS Jul 08 19:53:00 * ljp wonders why no mastercard Jul 08 19:53:22 I paid $223.03 USD (WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS) to europe/czech republic Jul 08 19:53:30 ?? Jul 08 19:53:31 ouch Jul 08 19:53:35 ouch Jul 08 19:53:41 Nalim: Are you crazy ? LOL Jul 08 19:53:42 cost me 114 Jul 08 19:53:44 sound like fed ex prices Jul 08 19:53:57 no, i just need one :) Jul 08 19:54:12 Nalim: dont blame you. These things are soooo cool Jul 08 19:54:16 * mjr paid 127.12 for shipping, of the advanced set Jul 08 19:54:31 chose the most express option since the others weren't much less Jul 08 19:54:45 * galexande paid 12.71 for shipping Jul 08 19:54:46 saver was more expensive than express :) Jul 08 19:54:49 Where can I buy one? Jul 08 19:54:57 galexande, bastard Jul 08 19:54:57 There's nothing on the front page. Jul 08 19:54:58 tronic, openmoko.com Jul 08 19:55:00 but either quite expensive :( Jul 08 19:55:04 Tronic: http://www.openmoko.com Jul 08 19:55:05 UPS Worldwide Express: Jul 08 19:55:05 # Delivery by 10:30 a.m. or 12:00 noon Jul 08 19:55:05 # Next business day delivery to Canada and for documents to Mexico Jul 08 19:55:05 # Second business day delivery to business centers in Europe and Latin America Jul 08 19:55:07 direct.openmoko.com Jul 08 19:55:08 Ah, .com Jul 08 19:55:12 Group purchase would be good if you can do it, for me single Neo shipping was $77 and two Neo shipping was $84 (or something like that) Jul 08 19:55:15 so, Tuesday then :) Jul 08 19:55:26 Tyrael: Sorry, really what? Jul 08 19:55:28 I suggest that nobody should slashdot the orders site until the bugs are out of the CGI (when no complaints about blank pages). Jul 08 19:55:39 FuzzyCat: Sean saidhte devices are still sitting in customs... Jul 08 19:55:47 boiiing Jul 08 19:55:50 :O Jul 08 19:55:53 Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Jul 08 19:56:12 Nalim: ahoj, kolik te stalo postovny? tech $223?? to snad ne? Jul 08 19:56:13 Dear Community! Jul 08 19:56:14 Today is the day that we've all been waiting for: We can finally take Jul 08 19:56:14 your order for the world's first freed phone. Jul 08 19:56:14 Neos are waiting in customs just outside our factory in SuZhou. Early Jul 08 19:56:14 this week, they will start their journey to FIC America in Fremont, Jul 08 19:56:14 wait.. Jul 08 19:56:14 California. We're sending them by air so they should arrive really fast. Jul 08 19:56:16 (We'll update you as soon as we know more tracking information.) Jul 08 19:56:16 not in the us yet, customs can be reasonably fast assuming the govt isn't intentionally delaying equip from asia Jul 08 19:56:18 Get them while they're still hot ;-) Jul 08 19:56:19 that's happened to me Jul 08 19:56:20  http://www.openmoko.com Jul 08 19:56:22 Right now we only have the credit card payment option in place. Later Jul 08 19:56:24 this week we should be able to take wire transfers. Jul 08 19:56:26 Now, "Free Your Phone." Jul 08 19:56:28 -OpenMoko / FIC Jul 08 19:56:30   Jul 08 19:56:33 you men they shipped em to the US, and now I need to pay to ship to eu?! Jul 08 19:56:39 correct Jul 08 19:56:45 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 08 19:57:01 that sucks somewhat Jul 08 19:57:01 there should be a counter how many units are still free! :) Jul 08 19:57:05 FuzzyCat: seems like that they may be shippiing everything from California... Jul 08 19:57:11 SpeedEvil: what's up? Jul 08 19:57:58 Perhaps the website should contain a bigger warning saying: "This is a developer version" Jul 08 19:58:01 SpeedEvil, actually the "high quality codec" probably means the audio chip Jul 08 19:58:11 Which revision of the hardware is this? Jul 08 19:58:24 gta01bv4 iirc Jul 08 19:58:24 jgm: doing the wiki links, and bemoaning current lack of funds. Jul 08 19:58:46 * SpeedEvil agrees with niels_. Jul 08 19:58:56 niels_: they will find out when the unit arrives :) Jul 08 19:59:01 ahh/me gos looking for an eu alumilite supplier Jul 08 19:59:12 s/ahh// Jul 08 19:59:12 I'd say a page requiring the user to type in "I realise this is not a phone usable by end-users" Jul 08 19:59:13 FuzzyCat meant: /me gos looking for an eu alumilite supplier Jul 08 19:59:20 would not be out of line. Jul 08 19:59:25 very much, all indications so far are that it can barely make calls yet (no offense intended) Jul 08 19:59:26 *nod* Jul 08 19:59:27 this is just for developers?! Jul 08 19:59:27 oh nos! Jul 08 19:59:38 hehe Jul 08 19:59:54 embedded arm though, with gps and gsm? that i could use Jul 08 20:00:07 And display, and bluetooth, and USB Jul 08 20:00:17 And SPI Jul 08 20:00:27 and i2c, and iis, and ... Jul 08 20:00:29 stefan_schmidt: Nothing, that seems tha I and anrp are in the first that ordered neo Jul 08 20:00:36 * CM added http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 08 20:00:59 Tyrael: Could be. I have no access to this data. Jul 08 20:01:04 Can you also add your location? Jul 08 20:01:10 is the sd card connected via a dedicated mmc/sd bus or is it using spi? Jul 08 20:01:20 Dedicated Jul 08 20:01:21 DIgg this story: http://digg.com/linux_unix/NEO1973_Phone_running_open_source_OpenMoko_software_now_available Jul 08 20:01:22 CM: order confirmed, what means? Anathor email other than the automatic reply? Jul 08 20:01:46 Tyrael: Na, only automatic reply yet Jul 08 20:01:51 Jason1: Don't digg it before the website says developer version Jul 08 20:02:11 Ooopps sory Jul 08 20:02:11 450$ ? Thats a looooooooot Jul 08 20:02:17 nah Jul 08 20:02:22 that's cheap Jul 08 20:02:27 not really, for what it is Jul 08 20:02:33 it's expensive for what it isn't! Jul 08 20:02:35 no its not,no camera Jul 08 20:02:44 omg Jul 08 20:03:05 thats nearly the cost of an Iphone :o Jul 08 20:03:06 er.. so the SPI bus is unused? Jul 08 20:03:15 hello Jul 08 20:03:26 anrp: there is an accessible SPI bus. It's got stuff on it, it's not unused. Jul 08 20:03:26 niels_: right on the front page "OpenMoko is a GNU / Linux based open software development platform. Developers have full access to OpenMoko source and they can tailor their implementations to underlying hardware platforms" Jul 08 20:03:34 ah Jul 08 20:03:47 anrp: but you can attach other stuff to it Jul 08 20:03:49 * anrp has horrible thoughts about trying to solder to bga (unpossible..) Jul 08 20:03:53 gaah no mastercard support Jul 08 20:03:53 Developer preview for both in the store Jul 08 20:03:54 anyone know when i can get one without a credit card? Jul 08 20:03:54 tuukkah: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 20:04:10 anrp: actual easy solder points. And it's exposed on a debug flat panel connector. Jul 08 20:04:18 P1_Owners can you add your location as well Jul 08 20:04:19 oh it's on that? nice Jul 08 20:04:19 tuukkah: After a bit, they'll take wire transfers Jul 08 20:04:21 Breaking news: Jul 08 20:04:21 We just added MasterCard. Jul 08 20:04:21 -Sean Jul 08 20:04:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 08 20:04:30 Jason1, cooool! Jul 08 20:04:33 tuukkah: pay someone here in channel with paypal. Jul 08 20:04:38 Aria, thanks :-) Jul 08 20:04:43 Wow. The mailing list is big -- I just got that email. Looks like a good 15 minutes of mailing between start and me Jul 08 20:04:43 tuukkah, Right now we only have the credit card payment option in place. Later Jul 08 20:04:44 this week we should be able to take wire transfers. Jul 08 20:04:45 tuukkah: and hope that they send it on. Jul 08 20:04:48 Jason1 == Sean ? Jul 08 20:04:51 :) Jul 08 20:05:00 xkr47: how do we choose orange vs. black case? Jul 08 20:05:03 jaebird: no. I just read the community list Jul 08 20:05:14 on the shop is anyone else getting a blank screen after filling out 1/3? Jul 08 20:05:26 notserpe: I did with Epiphany, but worked with Firefox Jul 08 20:05:27 /topic Jul 08 20:05:40 i did it with safari Jul 08 20:05:44 fine first time Jul 08 20:05:46 notserpe: several people are reporting intermittent problems. Jul 08 20:05:49 cjb, no idea :) maybe "comments" field? Jul 08 20:05:51 osx firefox is doing it, same with camino Jul 08 20:06:02 Last call: all germans who are interested in group purchase: go to #neo1973-germany Jul 08 20:06:10 Hi Jul 08 20:06:19 Hi Jul 08 20:06:19 safari 2.0.4/419.3 Jul 08 20:06:27 * SpeedEvil points tomtom to the topic Jul 08 20:06:31 tuukkah: People in Finland should probably group order. Jul 08 20:06:38 mbuf: I'll add a location column Jul 08 20:06:44 The shipping fees are quite high for just one unit. Jul 08 20:06:51 Tronic, right :-) Jul 08 20:06:54 CM, thanks Jul 08 20:07:00 people have paid half the price of a unit for shipping (!) Jul 08 20:07:04 Someone should make a group order page Jul 08 20:07:07 Tronic: quite high ? how high ? Jul 08 20:07:08 now i will freeze myself and wait for my Moko to arrive. Jul 08 20:07:16 jason1; i like reddit.com more Jul 08 20:07:16 Just realized that I've ordered one with a mastercard not a visa is it possible to correct this ? Jul 08 20:07:17 tomtom: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 20:07:19 raynet: ROFL! Jul 08 20:07:31 tomtom: Just added mastercard support. Jul 08 20:07:32 ruimoreira: Dunno, it depends on the country and I didn't check it yet. Jul 08 20:07:38 :) Jul 08 20:07:41 thks Tronic Jul 08 20:07:46 no switch... Jul 08 20:07:49 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[IPhone_%28GTA01%29]] [[Neo1973]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[FAQ]] [[Main_Page]] [[IPhone]] Jul 08 20:07:54 ruimoreira: 70-something $ to germany Jul 08 20:07:58 lol Jul 08 20:07:59 ruimoreira, a bit over $100 to finland Jul 08 20:08:02 Yes but I've already ordered and selected visa, possible to change this ? Jul 08 20:08:02 http://digg.com/linux_unix/NEO1973_Phone_running_open_source_OpenMoko_software_now_available Jul 08 20:08:05 83 to finland Jul 08 20:08:15 there is #neo1973-germany for germany-orders Jul 08 20:08:20 71 to 77 to Italy Jul 08 20:08:35 tomtom: orders@openmoko.com , perhaps? Jul 08 20:08:38 congrats Jul 08 20:08:39 raynet, i didn't get that option when i tried... Jul 08 20:08:48 we shouldnt be digg and slashdotting it yet Jul 08 20:08:49 I'll try Jul 08 20:08:49 raynet, is that 83e or $83 ? Jul 08 20:08:50 raynet: where do you get that number? Jul 08 20:08:50 tuukkah: which one you were trying to buy? Jul 08 20:08:51 http://wikihttps://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Group_Order Jul 08 20:09:03 SpeedEvil, beep! bad url! Jul 08 20:09:03 raynet, the basic Jul 08 20:09:04 let people whove been waiting 8 months get theirs before letting the drones buy it :/ Jul 08 20:09:13 basic Shipping: $81.04 USD Jul 08 20:09:15 to finland Jul 08 20:09:27 dunno Jul 08 20:09:30 wow Jul 08 20:09:32 $81 per unit ? Jul 08 20:09:47 * xkr47 lives in Espoo Jul 08 20:09:48 xkr47: for one Jul 08 20:10:13 raynet: oh, hehe, money, nevermind :P Jul 08 20:10:14 https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Group_Order Jul 08 20:10:16 even Jul 08 20:10:22 better :) Jul 08 20:10:22 why so huge shipping costs Jul 08 20:10:26 woo - ordered one... Jul 08 20:10:31 andylockran, cg!! Jul 08 20:10:53 WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED, USD $140.97? Jul 08 20:10:55 For the advanced kit to Norway $127.12 for shipping Jul 08 20:10:55 anyone have $300 they wanna give me? Jul 08 20:11:22 sannes, where in Norway? Jul 08 20:11:30 summatusmentis: of course, to do the transaction you first have to send me ... :P Jul 08 20:11:31 i will exchange my Nokia 2110 for OpenMoko Jul 08 20:11:34 should we collect the shipping costs in the wiki ? Jul 08 20:11:35 mbuf: Oslo Jul 08 20:11:44 sannes: :-D Jul 08 20:11:45 raynet, :D Jul 08 20:11:51 raynet, you should get two :D Jul 08 20:11:51 xkr47: good idea Jul 08 20:11:51 sannes, i see Jul 08 20:12:03 mbuf worlwide expedirted @ $114.29 USD in Delhi Jul 08 20:12:09 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Store info - shipping costs, credit card support Jul 08 20:12:23 mbuf: looks like chennai has special cost Jul 08 20:12:25 ah, i really hope there will always be a neo1973 version without a camera! Jul 08 20:12:26 mbuf: Was for the WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED .. heh Jul 08 20:12:41 empty_mind, its 0130 IST, you gotta hit the sack Jul 08 20:13:02 mbuf: i was about to hit my credit card Jul 08 20:13:07 Neo Advanced UPS Service: WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS Shipping: $114.35 USD to .nl Jul 08 20:13:28 mickey_away, good night :) Jul 08 20:13:33 i almost feel guilty living in the us Jul 08 20:13:34 but the this transaction is impossible for me as totla amount exceeds my total credit card limit Jul 08 20:13:41 but, hey, it's gotta be a good deal sometimes Jul 08 20:13:44 galexande: you should... Jul 08 20:13:56 I just paid for your shipping Jul 08 20:16:17 Paraguay should be the most expensive country to ship to: http://www.zefrank.com/sandwich/tool.html Jul 08 20:16:25 should we start an irc channel for group shopping ? Jul 08 20:17:04 man they need to bring down the shipping price. Shipping cost is more than a standard cellphone Jul 08 20:17:06 safari on osx worked. Jul 08 20:17:15 hi Jul 08 20:17:21 xkr47, #openmoko-fi Jul 08 20:17:34 jehna Jul 08 20:17:43 empty_mind: isnt freedom worth more than all the money in the world? :) Jul 08 20:17:46 it is there :D the neo is released <= very cool ^^ Jul 08 20:18:05 empty_mind: that must be a contracted phone Jul 08 20:18:18 I'm so excited to see what you guys can make the neo do in the time before I buy my GTA02. Jul 08 20:18:30 i wonder when the shop will be 100% open...i still get the blank page :( Jul 08 20:18:33 standard cell = subsidized, be careful about comparing to them Jul 08 20:18:40 in the us Jul 08 20:18:57 zipola, are you ordering phones to jyväskylä? Jul 08 20:19:09 100USD would probably get the cheapest Nokia there is Jul 08 20:19:18 probably Jul 08 20:19:21 but it'd be terrible Jul 08 20:19:37 well, again, probably Jul 08 20:19:42 you could make calls with it Jul 08 20:19:46 shh Jul 08 20:19:47 what else do you need :) Jul 08 20:20:15 tuukkah, I'm skipping GPA01 since I don't have 1000 euro for both of them and I'd really like to have WLAN. Jul 08 20:20:42 xkr47: Have you made the shipping cost page yet? Jul 08 20:20:50 yepp, me to Jul 08 20:20:59 CM, no Jul 08 20:21:01 whois CM Jul 08 20:21:01 zipola, how do you get to 1000 euro ?-) Jul 08 20:21:04 oops :) Jul 08 20:21:07 :P Jul 08 20:21:23 * xkr47 pratar också svenska Jul 08 20:21:31 Trevligt! Jul 08 20:21:33 i agree with a large "this is a developer release" there has been alot of hype and perhaps some developers will miss out on phones because some confused, end users will buy them. Jul 08 20:21:44 Hyvää ilta ;) Jul 08 20:22:28 Sorry guys, I just joined? Is the online shop already open? Looks like I can't get to step 2!?! Jul 08 20:22:37 if it had an 800x width screen i would have bought it Jul 08 20:22:45 fralef: test another browser Jul 08 20:22:47 fralef: some issues remain. I got past it by switching browsers Jul 08 20:22:49 * mbuf #1828 Jul 08 20:22:50 notserpe: the order should have been in the form a c-program you have to compile to finish the ordering procedure Jul 08 20:23:00 zipola: it's closing on 1000 dollars - for 2 dev phones. Much less in euro Jul 08 20:23:00 tuukkah, 750 rounds to 1000 :P Jul 08 20:23:02 that would be mean Jul 08 20:23:02 * mbuf #1878 Jul 08 20:23:05 what browsers work ? Jul 08 20:23:05 grr.. I can't get past step 1 in the order - it just goes to a blank page. I've now tried with Firefox under windows and linux Jul 08 20:23:06 we also need this to work with AT&T Live Video Share Jul 08 20:23:09 works with konqueror <3 Jul 08 20:23:13 zipola, 2*300 USD, 441 EUR Jul 08 20:23:14 SpeedEvil: plus ALV Jul 08 20:23:19 mbuf: I have 21, and that was just a few minutes ago Jul 08 20:23:27 mbuf: 1821 that is Jul 08 20:23:57 zilt: It worked fine with ff for me a few minutes ago Jul 08 20:24:00 CM, type, mine is 1878, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 08 20:24:17 Now that I'm looking at the site, I'm tempted :) Jul 08 20:24:17 CM, typo Jul 08 20:24:20 So - 60ish/hour Jul 08 20:24:28 who should i write to for transaction problem ? Jul 08 20:24:46 got the email :) Jul 08 20:24:50 i mean is it possible to do transaction in two steps one for phone and one for shipping ? Jul 08 20:24:50 anyone know if we can get it to work with AT&T Live Video Share? Jul 08 20:24:57 what does 1878 mean? you are number 1878 in the queue ?-P Jul 08 20:25:10 internal support ticket number Jul 08 20:25:13 zipola, #openmoko-fi Jul 08 20:25:14 issue tracker Jul 08 20:25:17 Tricky: if you want to implement it - sure. If it doesn't require support from AT&T Jul 08 20:25:42 ok Jul 08 20:25:45 its an odd way to set up a web shop, but for limited distribution it probably is fine Jul 08 20:25:59 :) Jul 08 20:26:03 mbuf: norsk? Jul 08 20:26:11 i dont know if it does or doesnt ,, let me ask this .. is there a way to send a data stream to the other phone during a call Jul 08 20:26:17 can anyone provide me with a link of neo's in the real world? Jul 08 20:26:20 * CM wonders if OpenMoko started the orderer counter ad 18000 to give the one that buys the 1973 some special bonus ;)' Jul 08 20:26:29 if the gsm chipset supports alternate data streams Jul 08 20:26:35 no idea if it does, its a pretty high end feature Jul 08 20:26:35 * CM wonders if OpenMoko started the orderer counter at 1800 to give the one that buys the 1973 some special bonus ;) Jul 08 20:26:38 Vegar, yes Jul 08 20:26:44 Tricky: no Jul 08 20:26:46 ~lart wireless keyboards Jul 08 20:26:46 * apt takes a big bite out of wireless keyboards's jugular vein Jul 08 20:26:49 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Store info - shipping costs, credit card support Jul 08 20:27:29 Jason1: Thanks for this phone - fantastic work! Jul 08 20:27:33 ok that rules on video share .. video share is a feature that lets you send live video to the person you are talking to (and vide versa) Jul 08 20:27:37 CM, i think it was started from 1800 Jul 08 20:27:44 rules out Jul 08 20:27:45 does anyone know how much time it takes in average to ship one neo ? Jul 08 20:27:49 its unlikely to work with gprs Jul 08 20:27:53 so ... probably not Jul 08 20:27:53 ah, after looking at openmoko.com and openmoko.org, october seems so long! Jul 08 20:27:54 andylockran: No need to thank me. I have no affilation with FIC/OpenMoko Jul 08 20:28:33 ruimoreira: probably depend on the shipping option. apparently, the neos still have to be shipped to the us, first, though. Jul 08 20:28:37 anrp, although, one could manage it if one happens to be in a BT/WiFi (for GTA02) access point's coverage Jul 08 20:28:53 true, but gsm coverage >> wifi Jul 08 20:29:06 ecraven: no shit :DDD Jul 08 20:29:15 anrp, of course, just saying that it could still be useful where circumstances allow Jul 08 20:29:21 mm Jul 08 20:29:21 w00t Jul 08 20:29:38 i do wonder if t-mobile us will say how to implement the wifi/gsm handoff protocols Jul 08 20:29:39 * DukeOfURL_ wondering if sean would accept email orders--still getting blank page Jul 08 20:29:41 that'd be neat Jul 08 20:29:43 the website is so pretty, unlike usually on open source -projects =) Jul 08 20:29:49 *in Jul 08 20:29:49 if there's a webmaster around: on http://www.openmoko.com/press-index.html Jul 08 20:29:58 CM, i have a colleague, friend from Göteborg, now on vacation though Jul 08 20:30:00 CM which browser did you use to order ? Jul 08 20:30:03 anrp, one can be pretty sure that, well, no Jul 08 20:30:04 the link "Openmoko goes live" is probably not correct (points to the same page) Jul 08 20:30:15 D: Jul 08 20:31:03 one can hope Jul 08 20:31:25 can't hardly w8t :D Jul 08 20:31:28 one can hope to be disappointed in their disappointment! Jul 08 20:31:52 :) Jul 08 20:32:22 xkr47: Firefox Jul 08 20:32:31 Do the phones have serial numbers on them to show that we're one of the first owners? Jul 08 20:32:32 DukeOfURL_, did you try with firefox or what ? Jul 08 20:32:45 mbuf: It's a nice city. Only been living here for 3 years Jul 08 20:32:48 the first owners are phase 0 D: Jul 08 20:33:01 ooh, if they have serial numbers I've got to get my order in now! Jul 08 20:33:02 :D Jul 08 20:33:06 both ff and safari do the same thing--blank reply after the first page Jul 08 20:33:15 CM, cool Jul 08 20:33:22 well - still no luck here - I've tried FF on Windows and Linux, IE on Windows and even links2 under linux - all end up at a blank page after step 1 Jul 08 20:33:25 DukeOfURL_: I suspect the cgi page on the server Jul 08 20:33:32 Duke:which page? I'm on mac... Jul 08 20:33:36 yup Jul 08 20:33:39 too many people want it Jul 08 20:33:43 the horror .. Jul 08 20:33:45 * ScaredyCat used firefux under linux Jul 08 20:33:50 hehe fux# Jul 08 20:33:58 fox Jul 08 20:34:07 Assuming the order number is sequential, it was at least 57 orders in 5 minutes since I ordered mine Jul 08 20:34:24 just tried to order with FF and mozilla on ubuntu and IE on XP, none have worked... the problem must be server related? Jul 08 20:34:32 ya Jul 08 20:34:36 methinks Jul 08 20:34:39 anrp, :) Jul 08 20:35:04 the one with the most reload clicks wins Jul 08 20:35:16 tragedy of the commons ;/ Jul 08 20:35:17 * CM feels like a lucky bastard Jul 08 20:35:38 I just filled in the fields and pushed next. Not a hitch on the first try. Jul 08 20:35:50 yeah, you got in before the crowds :o Jul 08 20:35:51 does someone knows what company handles delivery in Europe (France)? UPS ? Jul 08 20:35:54 any idea how many stage 1 units have been produced? Jul 08 20:35:56 * cesarb comes back from being away Jul 08 20:35:57 does anyone know s.th. about the carkit Jul 08 20:36:01 900? Jul 08 20:36:02 CM - did you fill in the billing info - or left it blank? Jul 08 20:36:05 it was in the email lists a bit back Jul 08 20:36:09 soooo, how many neos are up for grabs anyway? Jul 08 20:36:13 $71 for shipping! Jul 08 20:36:14 zilt: I filled it in, visa card Jul 08 20:36:17 guerby: the ordering options smell like ups ... Jul 08 20:36:17 i filled both bits in Jul 08 20:36:18 what are you all talking about... ... oh, I see, firefox had it cached :P Jul 08 20:36:22 alech, thanks Jul 08 20:36:35 homyx: I'd really like that car neo-holder too Jul 08 20:36:41 k|to: where are you from? Jul 08 20:36:41 CM - on step 1? There's no space for a credit card #? Jul 08 20:36:51 its on page 2 Jul 08 20:36:53 zilt: Ah, no. I just left it blank, Jul 08 20:36:58 safari/firefox tend to cache more aggressive than IE Jul 08 20:36:58 after you submit location info Jul 08 20:36:59 US, but I tried having it shipped to me here in Germany Jul 08 20:37:03 shipping/cost is on same page as cc Jul 08 20:37:06 That billing address is the same as the order address Jul 08 20:37:13 I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the states :( Jul 08 20:37:53 hmm.. same here - I guess I'll just keep pressing "Submit Data" until something happens :) Jul 08 20:38:04 funny how saver costs more than expedited Jul 08 20:38:13 there is #neo1973-germany for germany-orders Jul 08 20:38:16 hmmm I assume one has to pay VAT too outside USA Jul 08 20:38:30 there's no vat in the us .. so ? Jul 08 20:38:37 (curious) Jul 08 20:39:01 minime: yea, but then I'd have to try my humble german speaking skills :) Jul 08 20:39:02 anrp, so since I'm in France I'll have to pay 19.6% some way, may be on UPS delivery Jul 08 20:39:25 yeah, usually the shipping company will perforum the "courtesy" of charging it Jul 08 20:39:25 counter Jul 08 20:39:26 (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 19:40:14 (0.820±0.8 days) (1714;246) Jul 08 20:39:27 talk to them in english, there is a polish guy to, i think Jul 08 20:39:27 :P Jul 08 20:39:36 anrp, and IIRC UPS asks for a fee in addition to VAT Jul 08 20:39:39 unless you can get it labelec as something it isn't (gift, sample, etc) Jul 08 20:40:11 anrp: it could be labeled: free Jul 08 20:40:17 and why would you want to deny the government their hard earned dollars D: Jul 08 20:40:21 anrp, since it's UPS I'll get it delivered where I work Jul 08 20:40:31 raynet: and FIC would be committing fraud Jul 08 20:40:44 anrp, but I guess I'll wait for the first people to receive it in Europe to know what to do Jul 08 20:40:49 ray, :) Jul 08 20:40:53 raynet, :) Jul 08 20:40:55 SpeedEvil: well, the GSM part isnt free but rest of it is free Jul 08 20:41:01 :)) Jul 08 20:41:02 they'll know its not free Jul 08 20:41:17 you might get away with a declared value of $50-100 but like se said, that's fraud Jul 08 20:41:18 mostly-free then Jul 08 20:41:33 Is it just me that is seeing three "read more" orange buttons spilling over the text of the right-hand column? Jul 08 20:41:43 need to hit the sack, been a long day; catch you guyz later, have a nice evening/night/morning/afternoon Jul 08 20:41:44 20:45 assigned an ID of [rt.internal.openmoko.org #1823]. Jul 08 20:41:48 21:23 ð mbuf/#openmoko #1878 Jul 08 20:42:36 So 1/min or so Jul 08 20:43:45 aren't computer parts excempt from eu VAT ? Jul 08 20:43:56 exempt Jul 08 20:43:58 heh Jul 08 20:44:02 you wish Jul 08 20:44:17 I thought they were... for import ... Jul 08 20:44:26 wtf, the picture for the "microsd card" is a picture of the _adapter_ instead of the card itself? Jul 08 20:44:31 which is why sony wanted the playstation classes as acomputer Jul 08 20:44:38 for the UK Jul 08 20:44:43 that might be uk specific though Jul 08 20:44:47 :/ Jul 08 20:45:03 ScaredyCat: general computing devices get a tax break over leisure computing devices such as consoles Jul 08 20:45:14 not sure of the details beyond that Jul 08 20:45:39 anyone used an 8GB miniSD card with the neo yet? Jul 08 20:45:48 isn't it microSD? Jul 08 20:45:48 mini? thought it was micro Jul 08 20:45:56 only up to 2gb micro out so far Jul 08 20:45:58 no sdhc yet Jul 08 20:46:00 oh, ok Jul 08 20:46:04 does anyone know if one can easily buy/build the USB host cable? That's the only thing I'd like to have in addition to the basic pack and IMHO it is no reason to pay 150$ ;-) Jul 08 20:46:05 yeah, thats what i thought Jul 08 20:46:10 sure? I read of samsung 8GB Jul 08 20:46:16 sampling Jul 08 20:46:19 not for sale yet Jul 08 20:46:22 ah Jul 08 20:46:22 Building one should be easy, alech Jul 08 20:46:24 What's the big difference to the normal USB cable anyways? Jul 08 20:46:42 Host mode means having an A connector at the other end. Jul 08 20:46:47 A nonstandard A-miniA cable. Jul 08 20:46:57 and a resistor? Jul 08 20:47:04 Aria: OK, so shouldn't a 'gender changer' be enough? Jul 08 20:47:04 anyone got a photo of one of these in someone's hand? for comparison purposes. Jul 08 20:47:15 (if there is such a thing in the USB world ...?) Jul 08 20:47:17 Still no luck getting past Step 1 in the order - tried with 4 different browsers :( I've sent an email to sales. Jul 08 20:47:20 Not positive. I'd have to read some docs, but USB cabling isn't rocket science Jul 08 20:47:35 zilt: same here Jul 08 20:47:35 alech: gender changers are not allowed by the USB standard Jul 08 20:47:44 a to a male is disallowed Jul 08 20:47:45 alech: but then, neither is the "host cable"... Jul 08 20:47:50 a male to a female is ok Jul 08 20:47:57 so mini-a-male to a-female is alright Jul 08 20:48:03 anrp, I ordered anyway :) Jul 08 20:48:15 i own an a-male to a-male connector though.. Jul 08 20:48:21 came with some set of usb speakers Jul 08 20:48:25 wtf were they thinking ~_~ Jul 08 20:48:26 ok ... Jul 08 20:49:01 so that would be a yes! Jul 08 20:49:07 executive summary Jul 08 20:49:08 so it looks like one could attach a keyboard with a power usb hub, then, right? Jul 08 20:49:13 for anyone curious: The Zaurus host-cable will _not_ fit into the neo Jul 08 20:49:36 yes, with no mods if the hub does not do host power detection Jul 08 20:49:37 * aloril wonders what color they will ship if you forget to mention that .. Jul 08 20:49:38 alech, probably, if the hub will talk to Neo's unpowered host (some may not) Jul 08 20:49:54 jaebird: hmmm... the email I sent to sales at openmoko just got rejected.. what is going on? Jul 08 20:49:57 yeah I forgot to mention color also Jul 08 20:49:58 alech, though, frankly, a BT keyboard seems to me like a less clunky solution Jul 08 20:50:01 ok, well, they're cheap enough to try some out :) Jul 08 20:50:15 mjr: hmmm, right, but probably a good deal more expensive Jul 08 20:50:17 alech, someone on the news told something about a headset choice as well... what's that Jul 08 20:50:38 xkr47: no idea!? Jul 08 20:51:01 zilt: worked for me - though I diddn't complete the order. Jul 08 20:51:02 xkr47, the pics showed a black and a white headset, I presume the black goes with B/S Neo, while the white with W/O Neo, but guesswork it is Jul 08 20:51:05 some "testing orders" if numbers at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners are any indication ;-) Jul 08 20:51:12 mjr, sounds sensible Jul 08 20:51:25 zilt: privmsg me your CC details and address :) Jul 08 20:51:25 they added mastercard Jul 08 20:51:40 * mjr did make a B/S note in the textarea provided Jul 08 20:51:43 SpeedEvil: heh Jul 08 20:51:47 SpeedEvil: nice Jul 08 20:51:57 mjr: damnit, I forgot that. Jul 08 20:52:00 onnenpark.at Jul 08 20:52:40 and the openmoko mailserver hasn't come back yet after my greylisting ... Jul 08 20:52:56 i just hope they'll look at the potential buyers page Jul 08 20:52:56 * ScaredyCat replied to order asking for b/s not w/o Jul 08 20:53:03 i didn't specify anything, didn't think of it.. Jul 08 20:53:10 i do want it, but ... orange ... Jul 08 20:53:25 reply to your order email Jul 08 20:53:30 anrp: but how would they figure out which nick is who ...? Jul 08 20:53:42 same across my email and wiki Jul 08 20:53:50 ScaredyCat: still on openmoko.com's mailservers (hopefully) Jul 08 20:53:53 i should probably email, i have a couple days before it gets to cali anyway though Jul 08 20:54:08 ahh k Jul 08 20:54:20 I go to bed. Goog Night/Morning/Afternoon (take the one correct for your timezone) ;-) Jul 08 20:54:39 * alech goes to bed, too ... Jul 08 20:54:49 how did you find out the different cost alternatives ? you filled in some foobar info in the fields or you placed an actual order ? Jul 08 20:54:59 Tyrael, gub :) Jul 08 20:56:30 bitchx has an attitude problem Jul 08 20:56:49 (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz [openmoko-announce] Get them while they're still hot! Jul 08 20:57:10 eh Jul 08 20:59:31 hmm how much time before the order confirmation email is sent? Jul 08 21:00:06 It is good to finally see the community being kick-started Jul 08 21:00:06 guerby, frequently asked question, I'm sure :D Jul 08 21:00:16 xkr47, :) Jul 08 21:00:19 CoreDump: yah, the checkin logs are cool Jul 08 21:00:21 how long before they cool down? I don't want mine to be cold when it gets here Jul 08 21:00:36 osmosis, heh.. Jul 08 21:00:37 xkr47, some got their numbers already http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 08 21:00:41 thats why you pay the big bucks for next day early am Jul 08 21:00:45 ;o Jul 08 21:02:36 Nalim: hm, skoda ze uz jsi objednal :) Jul 08 21:03:37 counter_msg (last update 2007-07-08 20:59) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com Jul 08 21:03:37 aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-08 20:59) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com Jul 08 21:03:50 counter Jul 08 21:03:50 (last update 2007-07-08 20:59) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com (1715;246) Jul 08 21:04:09 finally counter was right ;-) Jul 08 21:04:17 yeah Jul 08 21:04:22 shop is open Jul 08 21:05:38 so it looks like on the order of 60 orders in the first hour? Jul 08 21:05:44 abouts ya Jul 08 21:05:54 lot of people had trouble ordering tho Jul 08 21:06:06 so it would have been more Jul 08 21:06:08 that's pretty crazyy, we might really go thorugh the first 1000 in the first week Jul 08 21:06:13 I was going to get one, but now I realize since I wont be doing any development I should probably just wait to the consumer one comes out in October. Jul 08 21:06:38 i kinda doubt that... Jul 08 21:06:42 osmosis, why not dev it? :) Jul 08 21:06:56 assuming that only 1/3 of the people intending to buy it are here right now that still puts it under 1k Jul 08 21:07:04 shipping is from asia? Jul 08 21:07:05 and i think most of the people who intend to buy it are here Jul 08 21:07:09 shipping from ca, usa Jul 08 21:07:12 anrp, could be Jul 08 21:07:12 galexande: would be cool. im sticking to django web development though. that keeps me too busy already. Jul 08 21:07:17 anrp: some people dislike irc Jul 08 21:07:27 true Jul 08 21:07:28 anrp: and just wait till slashdot sees it Jul 08 21:07:29 but 66%? Jul 08 21:07:33 but i just coincidentally learned about this thing two weeks before release...i'm sure there will be a lot of excited developers only learning about it from our recent diggings and slashdottings Jul 08 21:07:33 yeah.. Jul 08 21:07:39 anrp, you got your number I see :) Jul 08 21:07:44 then it'll get warped beyond recognition Jul 08 21:07:50 zonkism ftl Jul 08 21:07:54 * anrp coughs Jul 08 21:08:04 so i will have to pay customs on it :/ Jul 08 21:08:10 most likely Jul 08 21:08:10 galexande: So no point buying a dev model right now that isnt going to have the 3d hardware or 802.11b. Might as well just wait another 3 months. Jul 08 21:08:15 yeah Jul 08 21:08:24 its up to you Jul 08 21:08:32 gta02 is faster as well Jul 08 21:08:45 and a spice shaker interface would be interesting to try out to say the least Jul 08 21:08:48 i want it so bad i was on the edge about just getting the dev model to have for few months. :) Jul 08 21:09:09 how are people developing right now without any hardware ? Jul 08 21:09:11 I'm just wondering how will the 60% import tax be paid... Will the carrier get the money when delivering the package, or do I have to add it to the price somewhere in the page? (/me never ordered anything from outside the country) Jul 08 21:09:22 the carrier will add it Jul 08 21:09:32 osmosis, some small group has hardware... Jul 08 21:09:36 anrp: in the order page? Jul 08 21:09:37 was there a delay in getting 802.11b for the P1? Jul 08 21:09:43 in general, most of the apps will just run on normal X without any help. Jul 08 21:09:44 no Jul 08 21:09:46 galexande: are those the only developers ? Jul 08 21:09:52 the delivery company will contact you wanting payment Jul 08 21:09:53 most likely Jul 08 21:10:08 osmosis, well hopefully we'll be abble to uh leverage a bunch of existing open source apps :) Jul 08 21:10:51 60% cesarb? Jul 08 21:11:05 like there's a small group of people working on making webkit play with a moko-themed UI and small screen, but the real work is the ?thousands? of external developers who already wrote webkit Jul 08 21:11:09 maybe there's local industry protections in place Jul 08 21:11:11 Yeah, most of the apps run on regular X. I'm running 'em now (I packaged 'em for my distro even) Jul 08 21:11:13 I'm giving up for a bit - I've pressed that "Submit Data" button dozens of times now - and all I get is a blnak page. Maybe it'll work after dinner Jul 08 21:11:22 ScaredyCat: if I read the government web pages correctly, yes... Jul 08 21:11:23 try the force reload zilt? Jul 08 21:11:29 all the modifier keys + click reload Jul 08 21:11:34 holy crap - where do you like Jul 08 21:11:37 zilt, have you tried submitting slightly bogus information to narrow down which selection causes trouble? Jul 08 21:11:37 live Jul 08 21:11:45 maybe it doesn't like your country, or your address contains extended ascii? Jul 08 21:11:58 ScaredyCat: but then, it's a "generic" tax for things imported by mail... it might be possible to somehow get the tax specific for the kind of item, but I didn't find how to do it Jul 08 21:12:14 ScaredyCat: (so, it's probably the highest of the possible import taxes) Jul 08 21:12:27 ouch Jul 08 21:12:28 customs can be made somewhat easier if the sender will declare an unrealistically low value Jul 08 21:12:31 anrp: yup - done that. Unless Canada is exotic, it should be fine. Address is a bog standard Road. Jul 08 21:12:35 orders / nicks on [[P1_Owners]] page: factor of 5-6x Jul 08 21:12:38 a Road, eh? Jul 08 21:12:41 * anrp coughs.. again Jul 08 21:12:53 ScaredyCat: Brazil... electronic things tend to be kinda expensive here, and you can see why ;-) Jul 08 21:13:06 don't really know what it is then, sorry Jul 08 21:13:12 ScaredyCat: (unless they are manufactured in the Zona Franca de Manaus) Jul 08 21:13:16 brazil? Jul 08 21:13:18 zilt: where you at? Jul 08 21:13:20 that would make sense Jul 08 21:13:27 there's some animosity between the us and brazil Jul 08 21:13:29 take a holiday to somewhere and get it deliverered to the hotel Jul 08 21:13:38 zilt: for me it was spelling out Texas that caused the problem TX works fine Jul 08 21:13:50 since brazil (fully within their rights) is treating american citizens the way the us treats brazilian citizens Jul 08 21:13:57 anrp: what does us have to do with it? that tax isn't us-specific... Jul 08 21:14:07 at least they aren't treating brazilian citizens the way the us treats us citizens Jul 08 21:14:11 jaebird: hmm.. I'll try ON instead ofor Ontario (Ottawa) Jul 08 21:14:13 so they might have slapped a large import tariff on us goods Jul 08 21:14:21 aloril, don't have my order number yet :< Jul 08 21:14:38 I had no problem, but I used TX for the state. Jul 08 21:14:43 Good error reporting, eh? Jul 08 21:14:43 sagacis: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 21:14:53 it looks like I'm order #20 or so, it would be nice if my neo had "0020" engraved on it somewhere or something :) Jul 08 21:15:03 well, no doubt will not sell out before it hits some major site Jul 08 21:15:06 see if someone near you has a laser cutter Jul 08 21:15:09 after that... we will see ;-) Jul 08 21:15:10 but they're not us goods, they're tw goods Jul 08 21:15:16 they're coming from the us, though Jul 08 21:15:17 I'm order #1912, from 20 minutes ago Jul 08 21:15:18 http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/Aduana/rts.htm (portuguese only, unfortunately) Jul 08 21:15:19 heh i could probably use one of my dremel attachments to etch Jul 08 21:15:24 so as far as the govt cares, its a us good Jul 08 21:15:34 yay - just ordered mine! Jul 08 21:15:42 page 2/3 loads fine for me Jul 08 21:15:45 was quick too Jul 08 21:16:06 Nope - "ON" for Ontario didn't do anything... I'll try in an hour or so.. food time. Jul 08 21:16:09 I get a blank page instead of step 2 :' Jul 08 21:16:10 :( Jul 08 21:16:51 try completely restarting your browser, or use a different browser. I switched to Konqueror from Firefox and got a order confirmation Jul 08 21:17:00 i used firefox no problemo Jul 08 21:17:10 firefox has a nasty habit of caching stuff Jul 08 21:17:11 i'm order #1929 btw Jul 08 21:17:17 so that's >100 Jul 08 21:17:17 I used ON for Ontario and no problemo :-) Jul 08 21:17:19 up, and up, and up D: Jul 08 21:17:30 1932 Jul 08 21:17:32 that would make over 100 Jul 08 21:17:32 woohoo Jul 08 21:17:33 galexande, no problem with firefox too. Except I don't have my confirmation email yet... Jul 08 21:17:34 at least Jul 08 21:17:40 Where did the number start? Jul 08 21:17:46 earliest known is 1821 Jul 08 21:17:47 -7 Jul 08 21:17:47 segacis, ~1821 Jul 08 21:19:05 idarwin: same with konqueror... Jul 08 21:19:21 from ML: "Please remember, the phones are still going through customs in Suzhou China. Our original projected shipping date is July 16th. Depending how smooth the phones get through customs, this could be pushed back a day or two. We hope all of you can understand. " Jul 08 21:19:24 Cool. Within the first 100. Do we know how many are shipping to CA? Jul 08 21:19:31 all of them? Jul 08 21:19:36 its around 900 Jul 08 21:19:37 sagacis: yo Jul 08 21:19:49 WTF Jul 08 21:20:01 jaebird: yo back Jul 08 21:20:19 did the ground ship option Jul 08 21:20:19 wau Jul 08 21:20:37 since they won't actually ship till the 16th Jul 08 21:20:41 good night all Jul 08 21:20:42 wow - "On" and "Ontario" didn't work, but "ON" worked!?!? that's messed up. Anyways - order finally worked! Jul 08 21:20:48 \o/ Jul 08 21:20:52 zilt: yay Jul 08 21:21:07 how thick is the phone ? Jul 08 21:21:11 18mm Jul 08 21:21:12 they don't have any profile shots. Jul 08 21:21:39 they do if you click them Jul 08 21:21:43 They do on the website Jul 08 21:21:47 hmmm $15 shipping - not bad :) Jul 08 21:22:01 heh, the webpage really is short on warnings that this is a developer preview...i only see one Jul 08 21:22:04 and i had to look for it Jul 08 21:22:15 ;/ hopefully the people ordering know Jul 08 21:22:21 because it will disappoint otherwise Jul 08 21:22:29 18.5 mm thick Jul 08 21:22:43 maybe someone will be so disgusted tehy'll sell it cheap on ebay, and some less fortunate developers will get it Jul 08 21:22:50 you could shave a bit off with a dremel probably <_< Jul 08 21:22:51 hm the website is very good too Jul 08 21:23:03 osmosis: there is a profile shot Jul 08 21:23:03 or a belt sander Jul 08 21:23:04 galexande: I've added a caveat to the wiki main page. Jul 08 21:23:06 http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html Jul 08 21:23:08 * anrp evil grin Jul 08 21:23:11 click enlarge Jul 08 21:23:18 Just take the board out, and it's a lot thinner Jul 08 21:23:20 and the wigglyphone Jul 08 21:23:36 ouch, shipping costs $100 to my place :( Jul 08 21:23:41 seriously, i'd like to shave the back 0.2in off of the case, and use a thin high-end battery Jul 08 21:23:47 You can ship to my place. I don't mind. Jul 08 21:23:54 ditto Jul 08 21:23:54 how come shipping is so dear/ Jul 08 21:24:08 us -> rest of world through ups isn't cheap Jul 08 21:24:31 it does seem a bit odd that it has to come through the us first, but it probably simplifies logistics Jul 08 21:24:41 it all comes through the US? Jul 08 21:24:46 yes Jul 08 21:24:47 hahah you know, with a touch screen, there's no reason we couldn't use a virtual pulse dial circle Jul 08 21:24:47 i offered a similar service to unfortunate souls when the N800 came out Jul 08 21:24:48 Evening people. Jul 08 21:24:53 hey folks Jul 08 21:25:11 according http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners -- 4 of 14 orders are from US Jul 08 21:25:16 anyone got idea if this little piece of equipment has transreflective screen? :) Jul 08 21:25:17 so why the US? :p Jul 08 21:25:21 i'm not saying it makes sense Jul 08 21:25:24 i'm just saying how it is >_> Jul 08 21:25:44 5, ynezz ;-) Colorado's in the US Jul 08 21:26:06 besides 80% of the orders so far aren't in that list anyway Jul 08 21:26:11 Aria: :) Jul 08 21:26:12 so who knows what it really is? Jul 08 21:26:22 statistics Jul 08 21:26:27 :) Jul 08 21:26:39 * anrp pulls another number out of the nether regions Jul 08 21:27:10 There's an error of 3.7/14 Jul 08 21:27:12 damn, i really want one of these things. Jul 08 21:27:15 it's mad Jul 08 21:27:19 good night everyone ;) Jul 08 21:27:23 or 26% Jul 08 21:27:43 nite Jul 08 21:27:45 So 35% from the US, give or take 26% Jul 08 21:28:01 zilt: do I or Hypatia know you? Jul 08 21:28:06 (statistical error is sqrt(samplesize) Jul 08 21:28:07 ) Jul 08 21:30:36 somebody already with #1912 Jul 08 21:30:40 Wow Jul 08 21:30:47 means, first 100 sold Jul 08 21:30:52 let's celebrate Jul 08 21:30:55 perhaps FIC has a better distribution from US...doesn't make sense...but anyways Jul 08 21:30:55 stil no number for me ouuuiiiinnn Jul 08 21:30:59 * ynezz opens 2L wodka Jul 08 21:31:00 some people got more tha 1 Jul 08 21:31:15 hello everyone Jul 08 21:31:27 * aevin just realized openmoko.com has been launched for the real thing :-D Jul 08 21:32:04 Surely they will ship from other ports in October. Jul 08 21:32:11 yes Jul 08 21:32:12 counter_msg (last update 2007-07-08 21:30) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com Jul 08 21:32:12 aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-08 21:30) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com Jul 08 21:32:30 counter Jul 08 21:32:31 (last update 2007-07-08 21:30) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com (1716;246) Jul 08 21:32:40 Oct? Jul 08 21:32:49 What's the diff between "WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED" and "SAVER"? Jul 08 21:32:50 what are the numbers at the end ?-) Jul 08 21:33:02 expedited is faster? Jul 08 21:33:03 maybe Jul 08 21:33:07 $106 and $116, respectively. Jul 08 21:33:12 about $10 Jul 08 21:33:13 can i start developing apps for openmoko without the actual phone ? Jul 08 21:33:13 Skwid_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 21:33:14 Expedited is cheaper :o Jul 08 21:33:15 the difference is $10, then D: Jul 08 21:33:20 :) Jul 08 21:33:36 SpeedEvil: haven't updated counter for that, maybe won't even (web page can tell stuff anyway), might update counter tomorrow for 'shipping' Jul 08 21:33:42 Bloody expensive shipping, though Jul 08 21:33:44 order 19XX, was too late it seems :( Jul 08 21:33:53 Hm? Jul 08 21:33:56 daxxar, how much is shipping? Jul 08 21:33:58 Too late for wat? Jul 08 21:33:59 what* Jul 08 21:34:03 ml8128: the orders started in the 1800s Jul 08 21:34:10 To norway; $106 or $116 Jul 08 21:34:11 ml8128: as far as we know Jul 08 21:34:20 Skwid_: Yes. They're GTK apps, and if you use the platform libraries on the host system, you can develop to your heart's content. Jul 08 21:34:25 oh, ok, thought there were 1900+ before me.... Jul 08 21:34:27 daxxar, where do you see that? Jul 08 21:34:32 its not that popular yet ;/ Jul 08 21:34:43 10% gone, hmm... Jul 08 21:34:47 pygi: Order screen Jul 08 21:34:49 Aria: awesome ! what do i need to install ? is mokomakefile all i need ? Jul 08 21:34:50 whole europe seems to be in the $100 range Jul 08 21:34:54 daxxar, right, thanks ^_^ Jul 08 21:34:55 and its not digged yet? Jul 08 21:35:05 * pygi is interested in getting one, but is not sure due to lack of wifi :( Jul 08 21:35:12 is it digged - or dugg? Jul 08 21:35:19 Skwid_: I have the matchbox libs and tools installed, and the openmoko libs Jul 08 21:35:24 anyone got any experience with maemomapper? Jul 08 21:35:25 i think its spelled /. Jul 08 21:35:27 * anrp hides Jul 08 21:35:30 pygi than wait for p2 Jul 08 21:35:40 Aria: is there documentation on this in the wiki ? Jul 08 21:35:53 http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/NEO1973_Phone_running_open_source_OpenMoko_software_now_available Jul 08 21:35:54 woglinde, well, how would I develop application for it then until p2 is out? :) Jul 08 21:35:56 * andylockran was going to wait for p2... but is too excited so got a p1.. Jul 08 21:36:00 Hi, is this the version with WLan? http://www.openmoko.com/products-index.html Jul 08 21:36:01 woglinde, but I probably will, yes Jul 08 21:36:03 pygi qemu Jul 08 21:36:10 woglinde, no fun in that :) Jul 08 21:36:17 morph, no. wifi is october (at soonest) Jul 08 21:36:27 morpheus__: That comes out Octoberish Jul 08 21:36:32 if you dont hack on kernel or uboot its no differnce Jul 08 21:37:07 anrp: or that, we will see which one is faster ;-) Jul 08 21:37:10 surely being able to unbrick is worth something.. Jul 08 21:37:19 * anrp doesn't plan to brick but you know how that goes Jul 08 21:37:42 anrp, thanks to uboot, it should be really hard to brick it. Jul 08 21:37:44 (i'm optimistic) Jul 08 21:37:50 and if you b0rk uboot? ;/ Jul 08 21:37:58 anrp, don't do that, silly Jul 08 21:38:02 but but! Jul 08 21:38:04 Aria: what's the easiest way to run openmoko on ubuntu, with its X server, or with an emulator ? Jul 08 21:38:19 galexande: ONE wrong character when reflashing the root, and you lose uboot Jul 08 21:38:29 galexande: so, don't be so cocky (sp?) ;-) Jul 08 21:38:31 No idea on Ubuntu, but I had no trouble compiling and running as X apps on PLD Jul 08 21:38:38 cesarb, when in doubt, don't make typos Jul 08 21:38:40 But that doesn't test in an emulated phone environ Jul 08 21:38:58 Aria: hum, right now i dont really need anything from the phone Jul 08 21:39:12 Aria: do you use xephyr ? Jul 08 21:39:16 Nope. Jul 08 21:39:18 Just xnest Jul 08 21:39:27 (I actually intend to run some of the apps as regular desktop apps)\ Jul 08 21:39:36 How long did it take for your confirmation email? Jul 08 21:39:36 * cesarb still thinks making a GUI droll-proof reflasher, both for linux/X and Win, would be a good idea Jul 08 21:39:42 cesarb, i've been told now that when the new (GTA01Bv4) verison of uboot is asked to overwrite itself, it does some cghecking to make sure it got a valid uboot image, anyways Jul 08 21:39:51 Aria: ok now im confused :) Jul 08 21:40:11 Skwid_: They're regular apps. I have the framework compiled for the host so I can just run the apps (And test and extend) Jul 08 21:40:21 And why doesn't it ask for color? Jul 08 21:40:25 galexande - Correct. Jul 08 21:40:28 that is a good question Jul 08 21:40:45 I'll also be getting my emulation environ working so I can test before I upload apps to the phone Jul 08 21:40:45 Aria: in the wiki it talks about using qemu, xoo, or xephir, which should i follow ? Jul 08 21:40:56 Depends on what you need. What's your goal? Jul 08 21:41:15 just to develop a first app Jul 08 21:41:23 by looking at the code for the phonebook Jul 08 21:41:33 something really simple Jul 08 21:41:43 * Aria nods. Jul 08 21:41:43 that doesn't really need anything hardware wise Jul 08 21:41:52 Whichever, really. Jul 08 21:42:13 I work on the host, using Xnest (essentially the same as Xephyr approach) Jul 08 21:42:14 galexande - What I don't know: What happens, if you overwrite the env for u-boot with crap. I hope it defaults to usbtty. ;-) Jul 08 21:42:30 ok, ill look at that then, thanks ! Jul 08 21:42:51 well if you get the adv kit, you can overwrite it with impunity Jul 08 21:43:10 ok, 3 further orders :) Jul 08 21:43:15 anrp - I don't have the debug board. ;-) Jul 08 21:43:26 ;/ Jul 08 21:43:39 that neo advanced hackers dream box is still avialiable in october? or is it just unitl mass market start? Jul 08 21:43:41 So I'm not going to try. Jul 08 21:43:54 it should still be available Jul 08 21:43:54 XXLT: available Jul 08 21:44:06 its just base + jtag + extra bits + pelican case Jul 08 21:44:14 but than with the new version, including w-lan, ...? Jul 08 21:44:20 XXLT - Everybody assumes, that some sort of "hacker toolbox" will be available in phase2. Jul 08 21:44:57 XXLT - The debug connector hopefully stays the same. Jul 08 21:45:11 no clarification on that yet, though Jul 08 21:45:14 XXLT - Or only has some addons, but the old debug board will hopefully still work. Jul 08 21:45:16 well, i think i will wait till october Jul 08 21:46:17 I will wait anyway a bit. I have a Bv03, and it's quite okay to me. Jul 08 21:46:28 Aria: im not sure i understand what the difference between Xoo and Xephyr is Jul 08 21:46:46 i think you will have problems when entering the us or uk with that hacker box :) Jul 08 21:46:51 it looks like a bomb :) Jul 08 21:46:53 Xephyr is a Ford ;) Jul 08 21:47:18 or like a case for a gun Jul 08 21:47:22 lol Jul 08 21:47:40 Xoo is a wrapper around Xephyr Jul 08 21:47:42 #1952 Jul 08 21:47:44 XXLT - hehe. And in germany it's now forbidden, probably. Our stupid politician made some "hacker tools are forbidden"-law. Jul 08 21:47:48 Skwid_: http://projects.o-hand.com/xoo/ Jul 08 21:48:33 thomasg_gpm - "#1952" ? Jul 08 21:48:34 thx Jul 08 21:48:48 the debug board for GTA01 will also be suitable for GTA02, right? Jul 08 21:48:59 Elrond, and they know what "hacker tools" are? :) Jul 08 21:49:00 aevin: XXLT _JUST_ asked that Jul 08 21:49:18 pygi yes for sure Jul 08 21:49:28 look at phenolit Jul 08 21:49:29 Elrond, our order number :) Jul 08 21:49:35 Ok - thomasg_gpm: 1952 - that's 130 in 2 hours Jul 08 21:49:39 woglinde, people here don't even know what "server" is, let aside "hacker tools" Jul 08 21:49:40 Xephyr was a Lincoln in the US Jul 08 21:49:45 Interesting. Jul 08 21:49:48 well, it's more than that speedevil Jul 08 21:49:53 we ordered 3 to germany/czechia Jul 08 21:49:55 thomasg_gpm: yeah - multis Jul 08 21:50:19 But say 1.5/min Jul 08 21:50:22 pygi the problem is now you are a gangster if you want check that server a safe when use the tools Jul 08 21:50:29 just place that hacker box somewhere at london heathrow airport - now you have got a suspicious package ... Jul 08 21:50:31 pygi - Well, our politicians do, what the people they tell they fight against, want them to do. ;o) Jul 08 21:50:39 anyone else concerned that non-developers are going to buy this and get annoyed and do some early trash talking before P2? that would take some of the wind out of the sails of the great thing going on here. Jul 08 21:50:46 yes. Jul 08 21:50:46 a black case, black device, open circuit board and bare wires? Jul 08 21:50:49 what could go wrong Jul 08 21:50:58 hehe :) Jul 08 21:50:59 oh, and lithium Jul 08 21:51:00 There should have been a _Much_ larger warning on the buy site Jul 08 21:51:35 it is enough i think Jul 08 21:51:36 I've talked to a handful of non-developer tech saavy friends who were a bit confused about it. (I agree SpeedEvil) Jul 08 21:51:46 SpeedEvil: the vibes I get from the buy site is "rushed job" Jul 08 21:51:51 Indeed. Jul 08 21:51:56 But that's pretty basic. Jul 08 21:52:04 how long does it take to build openmoko ? approx ? Jul 08 21:52:12 12 hoursish Jul 08 21:52:21 +- a factor of 2. Jul 08 21:52:32 Skwid_: it took me more than a day, but then I had to restart the build several times until I had made it all work with /bin/dash Jul 08 21:52:34 More if you build on Neo. Jul 08 21:52:45 ouch Jul 08 21:52:49 the only place you get a real "warning" that this is a developer-phone is on the actual ordering form Jul 08 21:52:56 on a regular x86 ? Jul 08 21:53:04 building gtk on anything non-fast is painful Jul 08 21:53:12 hi Jul 08 21:53:14 266mhz counts as non-fast, sadly Jul 08 21:53:18 12 hours? Jul 08 21:53:22 Skwid_: regular x86-64... as I said, it stopped several times, and I had to fix bugs in 4 places Jul 08 21:53:33 ah ok Jul 08 21:53:37 * LetoTo just started a fresh one on x86_64 Jul 08 21:53:40 Skwid_: (if you use mokomakefile, my bugfixes are already in it, so don't worry) Jul 08 21:53:48 good :) Jul 08 21:53:54 well, ill start it then Jul 08 21:54:20 Skwid_: btw, the build speed doesn't depend only on your computer's speed... at least on the first build Jul 08 21:54:30 dling packages? Jul 08 21:54:32 Skwid_: it downloads lots of packages Jul 08 21:54:33 i see Jul 08 21:54:40 anrp: yep Jul 08 21:55:01 cesarb: and i read that i have to change from bash to sh ? Jul 08 21:55:44 Skwid_: you don't have to change /bin/sh anymore, precisely due to the fix I made ;-) Jul 08 21:55:45 will all phones be delivered from FIC America ? Jul 08 21:55:51 s/fix/fixes/ Jul 08 21:55:52 cesarb meant: Skwid_: you don't have to change /bin/sh anymore, precisely due to the fixes I made ;-) Jul 08 21:56:20 cesarb: so i can leave it as is Jul 08 21:56:22 Skwid_: (and it was the opposite, you had to change /bin/sh from dash to bash) Jul 08 21:56:40 Skwid_: I theory, yes, in practice, I think I'm the only one who tested that yet ;-) Jul 08 21:56:49 hehe, so openmoko.com is already slashdotted? ;o) Jul 08 21:56:59 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2006-11-17 10:54 /bin/sh -> dash Jul 08 21:57:02 that should be good right ? Jul 08 21:57:52 Skwid_ - probably not, at least for mokomakefile. Jul 08 21:57:59 you need lots of disk space too Jul 08 21:58:11 Elrond: I just said I fixed mokomakefile for /bin/sh as dash... Jul 08 21:58:12 meh Jul 08 21:58:14 Elrond: stalled here too. Jul 08 21:59:06 cesarb - Ahh, has that been merged in? Jul 08 21:59:34 SpeedEvil - Yeah, it's slow like ... here. I just came home and saw the news. Jul 08 21:59:36 ScaredyCat: i need the space in /home right ? Jul 08 21:59:42 ScaredyCat: OM is < 10Gb Jul 08 22:00:00 yes, home Jul 08 22:00:09 crap Jul 08 22:00:12 CoreDump: 10GB is a lot of space on a laptop Jul 08 22:00:20 * Skwid_ is going to have to make some room Jul 08 22:00:28 ScaredyCat: agreed Jul 08 22:00:29 delete that pr0n Jul 08 22:00:37 haha Jul 08 22:00:40 nevar Jul 08 22:00:40 grr the debian innstall directions for openembedded are all fubared. Jul 08 22:01:00 I had to trash my build-env today for exactly this reason :( Jul 08 22:01:18 hehe, on the digg frontpage :) Jul 08 22:01:24 galexande, use moko-makefile Jul 08 22:01:27 Elrond: yeah, it was merged last week iirc Jul 08 22:01:38 cesarb - Ahh, good. :-) Jul 08 22:01:50 shoragan, i'm following the first step of mokomakefile directions Jul 08 22:01:59 ScaredyCat: i need the space just for building, or is it going to take that much space all the time ? Jul 08 22:02:37 well, it's good to have it all the time to build... Jul 08 22:02:52 mages are <35mb Jul 08 22:02:53 <[lankester]> is anybody able to order a phone right now ? Jul 08 22:02:55 images Jul 08 22:02:58 ScaredyCat: isn't there a magic setting to reduce a bit the space needed to build? Jul 08 22:03:12 ScaredyCat: removing some of the temporary files in the middle of the build Jul 08 22:03:20 yes.. Jul 08 22:03:39 take note of the INHERIT +="rm_work" Jul 08 22:03:41 * Skwid_ deletes the windows XP partition :) Jul 08 22:04:05 just delete the pagefile, hibfile Skwid_ Jul 08 22:04:06 Make some space from worthless crap skwid Jul 08 22:04:21 Of course, I say this from XP myself Jul 08 22:04:25 ScaredyCat: i dont need it anymore, anyways, i was just to lazy to do it Jul 08 22:04:30 ahh k Jul 08 22:05:21 my buildused over 3GB Jul 08 22:05:40 mine was closer to 10 Jul 08 22:05:40 Anybody tried colinux? Jul 08 22:05:52 [lankester]: I am just getting a white screen Jul 08 22:06:02 still no order confirmation after 1h30, time to sleep ... Jul 08 22:06:28 * daMaestro makes a flame comment about the openmoko.com site having issues and it using debian ;-) Jul 08 22:06:29 LOL Jul 08 22:06:39 [lankester]: I am guessing the digg post has doomed all but the lucky Jul 08 22:06:39 >:) Jul 08 22:06:47 debian just isn't what it used to be Jul 08 22:07:23 https://direct.openmoko.com/ Jul 08 22:07:27 that is where you need to go Jul 08 22:07:28 * Skwid_ feels bad for the server Jul 08 22:07:38 though... i don't know why they need to use a self signed cert Jul 08 22:07:42 boooo Jul 08 22:07:43 ;-) Jul 08 22:07:46 <[lankester]> weez: geez :/ Jul 08 22:08:06 <[lankester]> im trying to order .. but step2 doesn't work Jul 08 22:08:17 same here Jul 08 22:08:20 * [lankester] curses digg ! Jul 08 22:08:26 submit data -> blank white screen Jul 08 22:08:31 it loads fast though! Jul 08 22:08:38 <[lankester]> true :) Jul 08 22:08:43 [lankester]: don't curse digg, or it'll curse back :) Jul 08 22:08:50 <[lankester]> i dont have an url !! Jul 08 22:08:52 <[lankester]> :p Jul 08 22:08:55 weez, do you have a two-letter uppercase "state"? Jul 08 22:08:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Group_Order]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Main_Page]] [[User:Aredridel]] [[User:Eric]] [[User:Gualti]] [[Translation]] [[User:Guerby]] [[User:Freelock]] [[User:Shakthimaan]] [[User:CM]] Jul 08 22:09:01 no Jul 08 22:09:04 I typed it out... Jul 08 22:09:08 weez, move Jul 08 22:09:09 lemme try that again Jul 08 22:09:28 nope Jul 08 22:09:28 sold out faste than iphone? Jul 08 22:09:33 <[lankester]> geez Jul 08 22:09:34 <[lankester]> it work ! Jul 08 22:09:36 weez 2 digits Jul 08 22:09:36 <[lankester]> with 2 letter Jul 08 22:09:49 I tried... but still a blank white screen Jul 08 22:09:56 is openmoko a trademark? Jul 08 22:09:58 it's probably slashdotted Jul 08 22:10:01 upper case Jul 08 22:10:02 hehehe /me got his order in Jul 08 22:10:14 cool Jul 08 22:10:22 I put something in company and it loaded Jul 08 22:10:26 i was just able to place an order by going direct to https://direct.openmoko.com Jul 08 22:10:27 I dont know if it is luck... Jul 08 22:10:47 anyone mind if the /topic gets updated? Jul 08 22:10:59 oh, seems openmoko.com is well-visited at moment :) Jul 08 22:11:03 i see there is not a topic lock, but i don't want to overstep my rights ;-) Jul 08 22:11:21 freenode has modded ircds, the channel op still needs to trigger it Jul 08 22:11:29 channel ops aren't listed though from the mods Jul 08 22:11:32 woohoo Jul 08 22:11:36 says it completed Jul 08 22:11:56 hmm... i think you are wrong Jul 08 22:12:16 i might be, i thought thats how freenode was though Jul 08 22:12:22 so either typing out my full state name was to blame, or possibly not having anything in company, or possibly it was just blind luck that it finally went through Jul 08 22:12:24 told you ;-) Jul 08 22:12:33 <[lankester]> was the state weez Jul 08 22:12:51 <[lankester]> but im pretty sure they are sold out :( Jul 08 22:12:51 I think it has to be ALL caps then Jul 08 22:13:04 weez: I got a blank screen until I put a 2 digit province code instead of a word. Jul 08 22:13:05 Sold out already? Jul 08 22:13:05 arachnid: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 22:13:07 Wow. Jul 08 22:13:09 the first time I fixed it I put in Tx Jul 08 22:13:18 and it was still a blank white screen Jul 08 22:13:19 Gee, thanks aloril-bot Jul 08 22:13:28 second time I changed it to TX Jul 08 22:13:34 It took me a couple of minutes to find 'Great Britain' in the list - I was looking for UK Jul 08 22:13:36 <[lankester]> arachnid: im not sure if they are sold out or not Jul 08 22:13:36 [lankester]: Why do you say something like this? Jul 08 22:13:49 [lankester]: What makes you think they are, though? Jul 08 22:13:53 [lankester]: That's just wrong Jul 08 22:13:54 weez: both spots? I had two letter below and name above and it worked once I put 2 letter code both places. Jul 08 22:14:03 It's not going to be hard for them to make more when they do sell out anyway. Jul 08 22:14:18 <[lankester]> stefan_schmidt: sorry im just pecimist ! i wont say it again Jul 08 22:14:21 hey arachnid Jul 08 22:14:23 There will be a delay of a couple of weeks at least though. Jul 08 22:14:38 notserpe: both spots? as in the shipping information spot? I left that blank Jul 08 22:14:40 delay? Jul 08 22:14:56 [lankester]: Something like this is mostly the root of misinformation. Just be careful. :) Jul 08 22:15:02 Hi pygi Jul 08 22:15:05 <[lankester]> yeah sorry again ! Jul 08 22:15:06 Fancy seeing you in here ;) Jul 08 22:15:09 counter Jul 08 22:15:10 (last update 2007-07-08 21:30) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com (1717;246) Jul 08 22:15:24 i'd rather have them sell out then not! Jul 08 22:15:35 Have they said anything about making more? I thought they were only making a limited number of dev release units Jul 08 22:15:38 i just spent $320 to show FIC that i support them Jul 08 22:15:52 the phase1 device is not that great... phase2 will be awesome.. and i'll buy one of those too Jul 08 22:16:07 $380 here :/ Jul 08 22:16:08 Anyway, night all. Have to sleep now. Heading to France tomorrow. Anybody at RMLL want to see a neo? Just ping me. Jul 08 22:16:12 i think anyone who forgot to mention a color preference in the comments should get the orange ones... :P Jul 08 22:16:19 * stefan_schmidt heads to bed. Jul 08 22:16:25 But I needed a new phone anyway Jul 08 22:16:34 And this is cheaper than anything else with similar capabilities. :) Jul 08 22:16:41 oh noes! Jul 08 22:16:45 i better get a black one Jul 08 22:16:47 damnit. Jul 08 22:16:50 so what is the significance of the number in the confirmation email? Jul 08 22:16:56 damnit. damnit. damnit. Jul 08 22:17:00 i got very close to 1973 Jul 08 22:17:03 weez, seems to be the order number Jul 08 22:17:06 <[lankester]> do the neo have a camera ? Jul 08 22:17:06 who can i send an email stating i want a black one? Jul 08 22:17:13 read the order email Jul 08 22:17:14 [lankester], no Jul 08 22:17:15 weez, order number, but note that the real orders did not start from 1 Jul 08 22:17:17 [lankester] no Jul 08 22:17:19 weez: the numbers started around 1820 so we're guessing on the number of orders Jul 08 22:17:24 <[lankester]> small drawback Jul 08 22:17:26 i expressed a preference for orange in the comments Jul 08 22:17:28 <[lankester]> but i can live without it Jul 08 22:17:29 daMaestro: No panic Jul 08 22:17:29 you're welcome Jul 08 22:17:29 haha, the site is a little slow Jul 08 22:17:32 SpeedEvil, who can i bug to make sure i get a black one? Jul 08 22:17:40 daMaestro: We have way more blacks then white Jul 08 22:17:41 daMaestro, guess you can't Jul 08 22:17:41 no surprise there :P Jul 08 22:17:48 stefan_schmidt, good. Jul 08 22:17:50 daMaestro: I can supply: Jul 08 22:17:53 * SpeedEvil looks under sofa Jul 08 22:17:55 #1916 :-) Jul 08 22:17:58 daMaestro: And you should be able to get the one you like. Jul 08 22:17:59 stefan_schmidt, where can i state "i want a black one!" Jul 08 22:18:05 stefan: with the current uboot, is there much need for a debug port? Jul 08 22:18:08 board Jul 08 22:18:11 daMaestro: kits to alter your neo to black, white, mahogony, or stone-effect Jul 08 22:18:18 Psi_: Are you Psi from Undernet? Jul 08 22:18:24 daMaestro: Quality emulsion paint! Jul 08 22:18:26 yes Jul 08 22:18:31 SpeedEvil, LOL Jul 08 22:18:33 Heh. :) Jul 08 22:18:41 SpeedEvil, it *is* the devel device i suppose Jul 08 22:18:41 daMaestro: Answer to the mail or wait until somebody clears it up on the ml. Jul 08 22:18:50 stefan_schmidt, will do Jul 08 22:18:53 LetoTo: Not really Jul 08 22:18:58 LetoTo: Hi, btw Jul 08 22:19:01 arachnid, i dont have a _ on undernet Jul 08 22:19:36 Maybe you're not the person I'm thinking of Jul 08 22:19:37 LetoTo: It's stable and also detects if you try to flash a wrong u-boot. For another version e.g. Jul 08 22:19:44 stefan_schmidt, i just did so Jul 08 22:19:51 the Neo should really have an all-LCD cover so you could skin it in software Jul 08 22:20:14 mjr: would cost a few grand :) Jul 08 22:20:16 mjr: Just _slightly_ more expensive. Jul 08 22:20:24 LetoTo: And if you update you don't need to do u-boot at all Jul 08 22:20:57 <[lankester]> notserpe: so my order number is 1966 so there is about 100 orders yet ? Jul 08 22:20:59 LetoTo: I think for your crypto voip stuff you would not need it. Jul 08 22:21:27 [lankester]: Seems so, as the first one was something around 1820 Jul 08 22:21:40 any resolution to the blank reply problem with the order page? Jul 08 22:21:41 DukeOfUrl: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 22:21:51 lankester: probably a reasonable guess. but perhaps people have orderd >1 and so on... Jul 08 22:21:58 <[lankester]> notserpe: true :) Jul 08 22:22:14 <[lankester]> and the sell started how many hour ago ? Jul 08 22:22:26 Hmm, the website doesn't list the charger for the basic kit?! Jul 08 22:22:28 DukeOfUrl: Somebody suggested to use https://direct.openmoko.com directly Jul 08 22:22:49 [lankester]: Not many. But that's of course the fast first wave. Jul 08 22:22:58 * arachnid got order number 1846 Jul 08 22:23:24 just now? Jul 08 22:23:24 stefan_schmidt - (u-boot) What happens, if you break the env? Does the default env have usbtty Jul 08 22:23:28 DukeOfUrl: Ah, and something about upper digest. Anyone can enlight him? Jul 08 22:23:28 ? Jul 08 22:23:28 this is the URL of the blank page: https://direct.openmoko.com/cgi-bin/order.cgi Jul 08 22:23:52 <[lankester]> DukeOfUrl: write the state in the first page with two letter in uppercase Jul 08 22:23:55 DukeOfUrl: yes, use CO for your state Jul 08 22:23:59 <[lankester]> it was my problem Jul 08 22:24:14 <[lankester]> i wrote quebec .. it wasnt working Jul 08 22:24:16 Elrond: Why not update env via DFU? Jul 08 22:24:24 <[lankester]> then I put QC and it was Jul 08 22:24:35 stefan_schmidt - update /etc/passwd as env. ;o) Jul 08 22:25:07 stefan_schmidt - I hope u-boot will have DFU after a reboot, or usbtty. Jul 08 22:25:14 someone needs to slashdot Jul 08 22:25:15 ! Jul 08 22:25:17 Elrond: ? It seems I'm already to tired Jul 08 22:25:23 the site is coming back online!... doooo ittttt Jul 08 22:26:00 stefan_schmidt - Assume a broken env partition. What happens, when u-boot starts? Does it give usbtty and/or DFU? Jul 08 22:26:01 any idea what the shipping timescale is? Jul 08 22:26:09 at least that gmail dups thing seems to have stopped! Jul 08 22:26:29 It's frustrating - for the first time (since Jul 08 22:26:40 (since I switched to Google Apps), I can't fix my own mail problems Jul 08 22:26:42 Elrond: Not sure about usbtty, but why should DFU not work? AFAIK it don't need the env Jul 08 22:26:43 it worked! thanks! Jul 08 22:26:56 i hope FIC has told worker they are pulling all nighters and they have all the mokos boxed up and all they need to do is slap a label on the box and bring it to a waiting airplane! Jul 08 22:27:02 workers* Jul 08 22:27:12 daMaestro: yeah, would be nice Jul 08 22:27:14 anyone know what order #1 was? Jul 08 22:27:19 1000 or 0001 Jul 08 22:27:19 daMaestro, they're still in china Jul 08 22:27:24 a guy on the ml seems to think it'll take a week for chinese customs anyway Jul 08 22:27:27 ds1, ~1821 Jul 08 22:27:31 the OM team still has time :) Jul 08 22:27:40 boooo Jul 08 22:27:41 I'm #1874 Jul 08 22:27:51 stefan_schmidt - Ahhh, that's good. Well, there's a wishlist to make DFU only available, if booted with AUX button. And the menu needs the env... Jul 08 22:27:58 1964 ... would have been cool to get order 1973 Jul 08 22:28:09 * daMaestro thinks whoever gets order 1973 should get a free phone Jul 08 22:28:11 lol Jul 08 22:28:13 Elrond: Anyway, let us postbone this. I really need sleep now. Jul 08 22:28:20 err.. a free debug kit Jul 08 22:28:20 daMaestro, I was just thinking the same :) Jul 08 22:28:25 stefan_schmidt - Sleep well. :) Jul 08 22:28:26 yeah, especially if order numbers are printing on the phone Jul 08 22:28:30 see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006633.html Jul 08 22:28:34 Elrond: Thanks and night Jul 08 22:28:36 everybody who ordered already - sleep well :D Jul 08 22:28:51 sleep well Jul 08 22:28:53 it is 3PM Jul 08 22:28:57 hi everyone; what's the difference between the Carrying pouch from Advanced kit, and the Neo pouch from the Basic kit ? Jul 08 22:29:01 xkr47: I will do - it's a great feeling finally ordering one after soo many months wait Jul 08 22:29:04 typo ? :) Jul 08 22:29:25 counter Jul 08 22:29:25 (last update 2007-07-08 21:30) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com (1718;246) Jul 08 22:29:26 ok.. so i'm waiting till jul 16... +2 days +local time Jul 08 22:29:31 so darn. Jul 08 22:29:37 how will the openmoko interface with a computer for program uploads? Jul 08 22:30:02 'the openmoko' ? Jul 08 22:30:09 andy, it interfaces with usb and bluetooth Jul 08 22:30:17 I just hope mine doesn't get held at customs Jul 08 22:30:18 LuitvD: down boy :) Jul 08 22:30:21 andy, both of which can be convinced to act like a ppp connection Jul 08 22:30:23 USB & BlueTooth networking Jul 08 22:30:23 doc|home: arf Jul 08 22:30:25 what software will I need on the client machine? Jul 08 22:30:26 heh Jul 08 22:30:27 andylockran - usb-networking. Jul 08 22:30:27 where to file a request for openmoko-cz (czech) mailing list? Is it possible to have it hosted on openmoko.org as other mailing lists? Jul 08 22:30:31 If it's not marked as a gift or sample, and the value is over $400NZD, it will be :( Jul 08 22:30:33 use bugzilla? Jul 08 22:30:44 * LuitvD gives paw to doc Jul 08 22:30:52 * doc|home takes paw and pats head Jul 08 22:31:17 andylockran - Oh, and for usbnetworking: It doesn't work on windows. ;o) Jul 08 22:31:22 * LuitvD chokes on his dog-snack Jul 08 22:31:34 Elrond: hehe - I'm an ubuntu man myself Jul 08 22:31:36 * doc|home looks around, thinks he'll get blamed, and runs! Jul 08 22:32:45 arachnid - Include shipping and customs in the price, full stop. If you're lucky, be lucky. But don't expect it. Jul 08 22:32:53 Elrond: it does work... with either expensive or hard to find (or both) drivers Jul 08 22:33:21 Elrond: I'm more annoyed at the delay than the cost Jul 08 22:33:43 If it's over $400NZD including shipping, they hold it and ask you for GST (sales tax) + a hefty processing fee Jul 08 22:33:47 LuitvD - Well, the neo tries to do rndis (microsoft usb networking), but something goes wrong. A friend (having windows) and I tried for a few hours. Jul 08 22:33:51 But they won't release it until they've paid it Jul 08 22:33:56 And even then they don't hurry Jul 08 22:34:01 s/they've/you've/ Jul 08 22:34:28 Elrond: ah, I see Jul 08 22:34:33 arachnid: oh, you from NZ? Jul 08 22:34:36 If it's under $400, they don't bother Jul 08 22:34:38 duffyd: yup Jul 08 22:34:48 duffyd: oh, hello :) Jul 08 22:34:48 arachnid - Well, you sure love your government and your customs officers. ;o) Jul 08 22:34:50 arachnid: cool, me too :-) but currently living in Taiwan Jul 08 22:35:00 ajmitch: oh hi too :-) Jul 08 22:35:18 ajmitch: you bought a Neo? Jul 08 22:35:22 nite Jul 08 22:35:30 arachnid - hehe, if the debug board would be an extra thing, you could order them seperately. ;o) Jul 08 22:35:37 duffyd: no, being convinced to get one in a group order Jul 08 22:36:08 Elrond: I'm just getting the Basic one - I don't plan to hack the hardware or brick it. :P Jul 08 22:36:11 nzers! Jul 08 22:36:14 damn, site down? :P Jul 08 22:36:17 mattb! Jul 08 22:36:20 Even so, $380US is definitely > $400NZ Jul 08 22:36:30 yep, site down Jul 08 22:36:38 mattb: I think I know you, even. :P Jul 08 22:36:56 LuitvD - site very slow. Jul 08 22:36:59 arachnid: #wlug :) Jul 08 22:37:03 Yup! Jul 08 22:37:22 the site is probally getting the digg effect Jul 08 22:37:32 Elrond: very... but worth the wait :) Jul 08 22:37:32 Is it on the front page of anything yet? Jul 08 22:37:46 its on the front of linux/unix on digg Jul 08 22:37:50 sorry for my repetition - but do you know how long shipping will take to the UK/ Jul 08 22:37:56 * * OM Bug 632 has been created by ynezz(AT)true.cz Jul 08 22:37:57 * * openmoko-czechia mailing list Jul 08 22:37:58 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=632 Jul 08 22:38:08 can the gps be switched off, and what will the accelerometers in GTA02 be used for? Jul 08 22:38:22 doc, yes, and fun. Jul 08 22:38:26 ajmitch: cool, I thought being in Taiwan would be an advantage but appears that they may ship them from the US :-( Jul 08 22:38:27 hehe :) Jul 08 22:38:30 lol Jul 08 22:38:31 doc|home: What can you think of to do with it? Jul 08 22:38:31 andy,forever and a day Jul 08 22:38:34 oh well, c'est la vie Jul 08 22:38:47 duffyd: how long are you in taiwan for? Jul 08 22:38:49 doc|home - the gps is off by default, I think. Jul 08 22:38:51 Aria: rotating screens, pedometer Jul 08 22:38:56 (at least on my gta01bv03) Jul 08 22:38:59 Aria: anything else planned for now? Jul 08 22:38:59 coming back on September 6th Jul 08 22:39:04 ah right Jul 08 22:39:17 how's things in the 'icy south'? Jul 08 22:39:18 arachnid: yes, I think I recall you from there as well Jul 08 22:39:19 Not that I know of. Jul 08 22:39:24 I'm really looking forward to play racing games on the neo, holding it like a steering wheel :) Jul 08 22:39:47 duffyd: cold, of course :) Jul 08 22:40:05 arachnid: have you ordered, or are you looking at a group order? Jul 08 22:40:06 Aria: ok, thanks. Just thought it a little odd that the hardware was being added but couldn't see any info as to why. Someone wil come up with something :) Jul 08 22:40:09 ajmitch: yeah I've been keeping up with press.co.nz - looks scary Jul 08 22:40:12 ajmitch: Already ordered, sorry. Jul 08 22:40:14 Elrond: cool, thanks Jul 08 22:40:38 arachnid: ah well :) Jul 08 22:40:54 Well, the openmoko is now on the front page of digg in general Jul 08 22:41:05 6th from the top Jul 08 22:41:33 what's does shipping to NLD cost? Jul 08 22:41:38 doc|home - You can switch off most of the stuff. For half the hardware, you can really cut the power. For the other half, you can tell that hardware "don't use power, be off". Jul 08 22:41:53 Elrond: sounds good. thanks Jul 08 22:42:42 For bluetooth, gps, you can really cut the power. For the GSM, you tell it "You're off". Jul 08 22:42:46 LuitvD: About $80 :( Jul 08 22:42:51 Oh, sorry, NLD Jul 08 22:42:53 Dunno. Jul 08 22:42:56 lolz Jul 08 22:43:06 $80 is quite much... Jul 08 22:43:09 is that USD? Jul 08 22:43:11 Yeah, it's rather pricey Jul 08 22:43:13 Yes Jul 08 22:43:16 That's for shipping to NZ Jul 08 22:43:27 It'd better be fast shipping at that price Jul 08 22:43:30 how much is shipping to the UK, SpeedEvil? Jul 08 22:43:49 ~$80 Jul 08 22:44:01 jeebus Jul 08 22:44:04 tat's some shippinh Jul 08 22:44:09 yeah... Jul 08 22:44:19 if only I could type Jul 08 22:44:23 that's twice the cost of regular UPS Int'l shipping... Jul 08 22:44:48 dont use UPS if you can, they will ding you for additional import tax Jul 08 22:44:54 ewon: how the hell did your h shift over 20 characters? Jul 08 22:44:55 yes, thats just what im looking at $85 for shipping Jul 08 22:44:58 at least in Canada, you'll get ding'ed for 20% Jul 08 22:45:09 (on top of their own charges) Jul 08 22:45:24 There's only one option on the shipping page for NZ - 'saver' Jul 08 22:45:34 And I don't think UPS can do anything about customs fees here Jul 08 22:46:38 it is just that mostly UPS has a deal with the country, ensuring to charge you import tax, while if using something else, it usually goes through without Jul 08 22:46:40 does anyone know if there are any more shipping options that appear for different countries? or does everyone only get SAVER ? Jul 08 22:47:16 so, are alternatives to UPS possible? Jul 08 22:47:25 It is really quite amazing to have an opensource project with 2-300 active developers after just a few hours. (and by "active" I mean, "willing to pay 100$ to be able to test code earlier") Jul 08 22:48:05 er, has www.openmoko.oprg reverted to the old site? Jul 08 22:48:07 *org Jul 08 22:48:17 heh mokomakefile doesn't want to work because svn keeeps segfaulting. Jul 08 22:48:27 doc, .com Jul 08 22:48:37 galexande: hah, thanks :) Jul 08 22:49:26 Psi_, i get three options: WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED, WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS, and SAVER Jul 08 22:49:31 Psi_: Other options were mentioned for other countries on the mialing list Jul 08 22:49:51 For $85, it'd better not be surface shipping... Jul 08 22:50:15 man, I haven't received my confirmation email yet (been about 45mins) :-( Jul 08 22:50:23 wonder if there's a problem Jul 08 22:50:45 are we sure that isnt a mistake, i mean, ive order lots of stuff from US using UPS WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS before Jul 08 22:50:51 *ordered Jul 08 22:50:59 Psi_: Not entirely sure, no Jul 08 22:51:06 Let me know if you ask them. :) Jul 08 22:51:07 i might hold off then Jul 08 22:51:13 the firefox said something about the security certificate, and i don't see that the buying page is secured? Jul 08 22:51:24 It's secured, but I think it's a self-signed cert Jul 08 22:51:27 * xkr47 has collected two other guys from finland for ordering.. $81 shipping for one, $92 for two, $103 for three.. nice Jul 08 22:51:37 xkr47: That is indeed a nice discount Jul 08 22:51:40 yeahthat's the smart thing to do Jul 08 22:51:49 Psi_: If it's a mistake, other distant countries have similar issues. Jul 08 22:51:54 s/issues/prices/ Jul 08 22:51:54 arachnid meant: Psi_: If it's a mistake, other distant countries have similar prices. Jul 08 22:52:34 xkr47: heh, I ended up solving that by being in the US while ordering :-p Jul 08 22:52:34 does anyone know what the email address is for the order confirmation? Jul 08 22:52:40 I might flick them an email Jul 08 22:52:49 Tv, how much does it cost there :) Jul 08 22:53:00 Tv, bring us some phones too ?-D Jul 08 22:53:00 jeesh, mokomakefile downloads a *ton* of stuff Jul 08 22:53:16 xkr47: figuring it out, but it said they're shipping from from california, so it's all in one state for me Jul 08 22:53:31 xkr47: i won't be back until September, you'd gnaw your fingers off Jul 08 22:53:46 yours too :D Jul 08 22:53:56 ok.. Jul 08 22:54:00 what software does a new dev need to download to play with the code and apps on a pc? Jul 08 22:54:07 I wish FedEx was an option because UPS to Canada usually results in stupid mammoth fees as mentioned, unless you do it ground and refuse delivery and then go and broker it yourself. rediculous. I'd pay extra for FexEx delivery knowing the problems. Jul 08 22:54:14 hope you can get a decent "liittymä" from there :) Jul 08 22:55:02 black, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 08 22:55:17 xkr47: using prepaid with filtered internet access Jul 08 22:55:23 xkr47: sucky but i don't care right now Jul 08 22:55:32 good luck :) Jul 08 22:55:35 when i went to UPS and tried to ship something international, the girl behind the counter told me "you know, any other shipper will give you a much better rate than us." Jul 08 22:56:12 can the powers that be add Fedex as a shipping opt? Jul 08 22:56:48 arachnid, are you in akl? Jul 08 22:57:17 No, Christchurch Jul 08 22:57:33 is the maybe going to be google maps integration Jul 08 22:57:45 Once there's a browser, I'm sure there will be Jul 08 22:57:47 black, of course Jul 08 22:58:04 do we know (or suspect) if they have already run out of phones from the current batch? Jul 08 22:58:11 Confirmed: The openmoko store cert is self-signed Jul 08 22:58:14 id imagine there have been a fair amount of orders so far Jul 08 22:58:19 Psi_: We don't know, but I don't think so Jul 08 22:58:29 gah blank page Jul 08 22:58:41 *waah* mommy i want a phone Jul 08 23:00:14 ah saying CA helped Jul 08 23:01:13 Tv, mitäs waahtoat siellä :D Jul 08 23:01:53 ihtsalt ei anna süüa Jul 08 23:03:31 psi, there have been ~130 orders, probably few of those are more than 2x, so maybe 250 phones claimed so far at most Jul 08 23:03:58 and do we know how many they have? Jul 08 23:04:05 psi, on the order of 900 Jul 08 23:04:12 nice Jul 08 23:04:35 but that postage is worse than a kick in the head :( Jul 08 23:04:40 just placed my 2nd order as didn't receive a confirmation email for the first Jul 08 23:05:03 duffyd, you do realise that there webserver is probably just slow Jul 08 23:05:06 I should've been patient and tried to find people to group with Jul 08 23:05:13 yeah Jul 08 23:05:23 group _order_, that is Jul 08 23:05:23 Psi_: well is 1 hour too long? Jul 08 23:05:26 Too manny MMOs ;) Jul 08 23:05:30 s/manny/many/ Jul 08 23:05:31 arachnid meant: Too many MMOs ;) Jul 08 23:05:32 or move to america...give up basic civil liberties for cheap fast shipping on all the newest toys Jul 08 23:05:33 Tv, tuus #openmoko-fi kanavalle hengaa ? :) Jul 08 23:05:39 Psi_: decided after an hour to place another order Jul 08 23:05:51 sorry for the finnish :P Jul 08 23:05:54 duffyd, i wouldnt have ordered again until maybe 2 days later Jul 08 23:05:59 Those who would give up essential liberties for cheap toys shall have neither liberties nor toys? ;) Jul 08 23:06:02 Psi_: doh Jul 08 23:06:24 Psi_: but it appeared that most people received confirmation emails straight away Jul 08 23:06:30 i shall have my toys!! Jul 08 23:06:32 duffyd: oh well, now you'll have a spare to send over to NZ :) Jul 08 23:06:39 xkr47: gah more channels Jul 08 23:06:40 ajmitch: lol Jul 08 23:06:50 yeah Jul 08 23:06:59 well its definitely possible that your first one didnt get through, but you are risking getting two phones Jul 08 23:07:08 galexande, don't you think it should be more orders than 130 now? Jul 08 23:07:15 "Your Order request has been processed." Jul 08 23:07:16 woowoo Jul 08 23:07:18 thomas, probably Jul 08 23:07:20 Psi_: true. I emailed sean directly re. the double order, though Jul 08 23:07:40 as I met up with him when I was in Taipei last Jul 08 23:07:44 Psi_: you're in NZ as well? Jul 08 23:07:49 yes Jul 08 23:07:57 galexande, because openmoko.com was heavy in use before some minutes :) Jul 08 23:08:01 Psi_: oh really?! cool ;-) Jul 08 23:08:31 Psi_: whereabouts in NZ? Jul 08 23:08:35 akl Jul 08 23:08:41 cool! Jul 08 23:08:46 my hometown :-) Jul 08 23:08:48 heh Jul 08 23:09:02 well the North Shore to be more precise Jul 08 23:09:39 Australia gets worldwide-expedited, but its only $4 cheaper than saver Jul 08 23:09:44 * duffyd is contemplating going to Taipei to pick up a Neo in person :-) Jul 08 23:09:48 what's expedited mean? Jul 08 23:10:01 faster Jul 08 23:10:02 "made quicker" Jul 08 23:10:14 heh Jul 08 23:10:15 why is that cheaper than the saver option? Jul 08 23:10:24 different company Jul 08 23:10:39 but i really fail to understand where the bulk of that cost is coming from Jul 08 23:10:55 Psi_: processing in China ;-) Jul 08 23:11:01 ah Jul 08 23:11:13 International shipping is just generally expensive. Jul 08 23:11:17 to be honest though, even at £184 (what it cost me) it's still an absolute bargain - but would prefer to be giving all the money to FIC a Sean as a thank you, rather than to UPS or whichever shipping company it is thta ships the thing Jul 08 23:11:20 lots of 'red envelopes' to get it through customs ;-) Jul 08 23:11:39 hads, its normally around US$30-$40 Jul 08 23:12:07 there could be some overheads at FIC internally to box them all up?.. maybe? Jul 08 23:12:15 possibly Jul 08 23:12:19 + Jul 08 23:12:23 or hopefully to pay them to work overtime tonight to get them shipped :p Jul 08 23:12:35 Psi_: That varies a lot. I do quite a bit of shipping from International -> NZ Jul 08 23:12:47 after ordering, i got a message from rt.internal.openmoko.org with an order ID; are the IDs sequential? Jul 08 23:12:48 myk_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 23:12:48 hads: you another NZer? Jul 08 23:13:03 duffyd: Yes, Timaru. Jul 08 23:13:05 the phones are being shipped to FIC America Jul 08 23:13:10 myk_: what was your Order ID? Jul 08 23:13:19 according to the announcement Jul 08 23:13:21 hads: wow you must be feeling the cold :-( Jul 08 23:13:39 duffyd: 1987 Jul 08 23:13:42 so there shouldnt be any processing in china Jul 08 23:13:48 my cat did that. i need a daemon that detects when the cat is laying on the keyboard... Jul 08 23:13:58 duffyd: A little, it's nice today :) Jul 08 23:14:01 myk_: ok, cool. Just that someone said something earlier about the order ids starting at a certain number Jul 08 23:14:10 DukeOfUrl: an NPR program reported on such software yesterday Jul 08 23:14:10 hads: cool. I'm from Chch, currently living in Taiwan Jul 08 23:14:24 duffyd: Cool :) Jul 08 23:14:34 duffyd: i hope that's true, since i don't want to be the 1987th person ordering one of the first 400 phones! :-/ Jul 08 23:14:43 hads: better get in quick :) Jul 08 23:14:50 myk_: lol Jul 08 23:15:06 Does anyone have a link to the predicted specs of the final(massmarket) phone? Jul 08 23:15:06 Tehkain: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 23:15:32 ajmitch: Yeah. I think there's quite a few phones done though. Jul 08 23:16:05 Psi_: for me it's almost worth taking a bus to Taipei to pick one up as the bus trip only costs about NZ$40 return and I'll probably get one faster :-) Jul 08 23:16:14 building 'make openmoko-devel-image' Intel Pentium M 1400Mhz Laptop with 1GB RAM.. can I take bets on how long it'll take please? Jul 08 23:16:14 hehe Jul 08 23:16:25 duffyd, but they are shipping from US tho? Jul 08 23:16:28 duffyd: and shipping to NZ would probably be cheaper, too... :) Jul 08 23:16:43 andylockran about 8hours with fast ip Jul 08 23:16:57 Psi_: yeah but apparently Sean offered to sell them direct to people in person if they wanted them Jul 08 23:17:06 excellent - so I can sleep and wake up tomorrow to mokomakefile complete Jul 08 23:17:11 fantastic :s Jul 08 23:18:00 roh: how about Pentium 4 HT 2.8Ghz with 2GB RAM? Jul 08 23:19:53 is there a checkbox for which color phone we want? i didnt see one as far as i got with the order? Jul 08 23:20:06 Psi_: no Jul 08 23:20:18 Psi_: apparently you've gotta specify that in the comments Jul 08 23:20:27 i think some code depends on qmake Jul 08 23:21:10 how precise are the accelerometers Jul 08 23:21:54 mrfeeti1, there is no solid info on that at this point Jul 08 23:22:05 speculation that they are wasit 7-bit Jul 08 23:22:14 I'm waiting in anticipation as much for the colour as the actual phone itself Jul 08 23:23:33 from my calculations it appears that about 156 have been sold to date Jul 08 23:23:53 156 orders? Jul 08 23:23:59 well as of myk_'s order anyway Jul 08 23:24:04 andylockran dunno.. i luckyly do not own netburst based cpus Jul 08 23:24:09 hads: yup Jul 08 23:24:30 duffyd: So probably a few people ordered >= 2 Jul 08 23:24:38 possibly Jul 08 23:24:38 andylockran but on my core2duo 2.3 it takes about 6hours on one cpu for the initial build... at least it took a few month ago Jul 08 23:24:59 duffyd: is that based on the lowest order number you've heard about so far? Jul 08 23:25:14 roh: cheers.. yeah - gonna definately leave it on whilst I sleep Jul 08 23:25:35 roh: and now I shall sleep Jul 08 23:25:37 myk_: yes Jul 08 23:25:57 andylockran also hdd and internet performance is playing in... since the build-process downloads a lot of packages while on the way Jul 08 23:26:10 well according to my IRC logs: Jul 09 03:47:25 assigned an ID of [rt.internal.openmoko.org #1823]. Jul 08 23:26:16 I've got 24MBps internet here so that shouldn't be a limitation :) Jul 08 23:26:21 that's the earliest number I can find Jul 08 23:26:22 if i was FIC i would send people black phones unless they specify orange, since the black ones are more popular from the 'buying interest list'. Jul 08 23:26:24 well reported one anyway Jul 08 23:26:34 andylockran nice ;) Jul 08 23:26:49 the 'dialer' button looks like an IR panel on the black phone Jul 08 23:26:55 Does anyone know if they only ship from US? Jul 08 23:27:03 Psi_ oh.. do we not have a field to select the color? Jul 08 23:27:07 I'd send everyone both covers and allow them to mix and match :) Jul 08 23:27:11 for a long time I couldn't find the button :( Jul 08 23:27:12 Psi_: i would think it the other way around: to make sure to satisfy people who express a preference for black, send everyone else orange! Jul 08 23:27:12 Good Luck with delivery times everyone.. I want to see photos of the neo on everyone's blogs Jul 08 23:27:13 roh: no Jul 08 23:27:35 night! Jul 08 23:27:40 roh: also - there should be _much_ larger 'this is not a working phone' page Jul 08 23:27:43 duffyd: ah, ok, thanks; perhaps the lower numbers were used up in testing Jul 08 23:27:46 myk_, im glad i didnt rush in and order :) Jul 08 23:28:04 myk_: well according to my IRC logs they used numbers from the 'issue collector' Jul 08 23:28:09 lost of important info needed first Jul 08 23:28:13 *lots Jul 08 23:28:16 so how does one choose the color of the phone? Jul 08 23:28:23 so the orders are issues in the collector Jul 08 23:28:38 Tv, comments section apparently Jul 08 23:28:38 Psi_: i was thinking about specifying a color, but then i realized that i'm just going to replace it in a few months anyway, and i wear both orange and black (on alternate days), so it really doesn't matter which color i get this time :-) Jul 08 23:28:40 Tv: That's the FAQ of the hour. Jul 08 23:28:47 the shop should have said how many they got in stock, updated as orders were sent. Jul 08 23:29:17 but we'll survive without too ;-) can't get everything you wish for Jul 08 23:29:18 aevin: that would be good yes Jul 08 23:29:37 can always get your orange phone painted any color with car paint :P Jul 08 23:29:41 duffyd: ah, that would explain the "rt" (request tracker) Jul 08 23:29:48 i guess sean will reveal how the sale is going after a few days. Jul 08 23:30:03 yeah. myk_ btw how long did it take for you to receive your order confirmation? Jul 08 23:30:18 (perhaps excusing themselves for not being able to produce enough devices quickly enough) Jul 08 23:30:53 duffyd: i haven't received a confirmation yet, just the auto reply (which explicitly says at the bottom that I "will receive another message as order confirmation after our staff has accepted it") Jul 08 23:31:05 myk_: oh Jul 08 23:31:16 For OpenMoko, do apps have to have a certain license? Jul 08 23:31:29 poffy, no Jul 08 23:31:34 Awesome. Jul 08 23:31:37 duffyd: i got the auto reply within a few seconds, which is actually strange, since my mail server uses greylisting, which means i usually don't get messages from new sending servers for 15-30 minutes Jul 08 23:31:48 You can even go proprietary. But that would be evil, of course. Jul 08 23:31:51 myk_: yeah I use greylisting too Jul 08 23:32:00 I got mine in seconds, too, though I'm on the ML, so the greylist was already passed, I think Jul 08 23:32:00 still haven't got my reply :-( Jul 08 23:32:13 Aria: aha! i am too, so perhaps that's why Jul 08 23:32:15 Tv: perhaps you can try to specify the color you want in the extra "comment" field (don't know if they'll be able to comply, though, but i guess it's worth a shot) Jul 08 23:32:23 duffyd: are you subscribed to the mailing list? Jul 08 23:32:38 myk_: yup, both the announcment and community lists Jul 08 23:32:50 aevin: yeah just read the mailing list; i'll reply to rt Jul 08 23:33:32 Does anyone know if they only ship from US? Jul 08 23:33:34 YO YO Moko nuts Jul 08 23:33:35 *catch up on the ML while waiting for the laundry to finish* Jul 08 23:33:46 :-P Jul 08 23:34:15 ebbe: the fab is in china. i don't think they only ship from US. Jul 08 23:34:20 i wish they had an option to "pick up in Fremont", since i work about 20 minutes from there Jul 08 23:34:41 SpeedEvil eeehh.. ok.. our fuckup Jul 08 23:34:56 SpeedEvil just fill your color-wish into the comment field Jul 08 23:35:04 aevin: I understand from the ML that they'll send every phone to US.. Jul 08 23:35:24 roh, good, 'cause that's what I did :) Jul 08 23:35:39 mjr also mails in reply to the ticket help. Jul 08 23:35:55 Is "Sean" really in Oceanside? Jul 08 23:36:34 ah.. and since some people overlook it. the mail from the RT is no order confirmation. its just a order arrival-reciept.. we need to check the CC validity before you get a order confirmation Jul 08 23:38:38 roh: are you an OpenMoko employee? Jul 08 23:40:40 Speedy2 - How common are PLLs, that multiply/divide by numbers in the 1e8 or 4e9 range? Jul 08 23:40:44 Huh. Jul 08 23:40:53 hmm openmoko.com is slow Jul 08 23:40:55 SpeedEvil - How common are PLLs, that multiply/divide by numbers in the 1e8 or 4e9 range? Jul 08 23:41:07 linux_galore, it's been digged... Jul 08 23:41:10 Elrond: Not unheard of. Jul 08 23:41:18 linux_galore: /topic Jul 08 23:41:48 Elrond: There is usually some high-speed prescalar, used to be in SiGe, maybe now CMOS. Jul 08 23:41:48 anyone have a clue if the screen is more readable against a black cover than against a white cover Jul 08 23:42:00 xkr47: looks same with either to me Jul 08 23:42:09 it's just plastic :) Jul 08 23:43:06 xkr47: I'd guess it would depend on which one is more reflective... but the difference would be minuscule Jul 08 23:43:19 cjb, I just wondered if there's any differency in certain light conditions (for example bright sunlight) Jul 08 23:43:37 xkr47: what really matters is the back part of the LCD, and that doesn't depend on the case color Jul 08 23:44:34 xkr47: I don't think there is. Jul 08 23:44:37 Speedy2 - Hmm. And the output of the multiply in the 1.5GHz range? Jul 08 23:44:50 ok thanks :) Jul 08 23:45:40 Elrond: Just wondering, this purely hypothetical or are you trying to build something? Jul 08 23:45:41 myk_ yes Jul 08 23:45:46 That's a good question Jul 08 23:45:54 Is the screen transreflective? Jul 08 23:46:08 Speedy2 - I'm trying to guess up a possible design in a real chip. Doing reverse engineering. ;-) Jul 08 23:46:09 Elrond: analog.com maxim-ic.com Jul 08 23:46:20 arachnid, only transmissive afaik Jul 08 23:46:27 ah well Jul 08 23:46:37 Elrond: for example, the fractional-n synth from AD that I was looking at yesterday. A 10 bit N and a 14 bit R counter. Jul 08 23:46:43 SpeedEvil - Ahh, good idea. :-) Jul 08 23:46:51 roh: so do i understand correctly that i can reply to the autoreply with a color preference if i didn't specify one during the ordering process? Jul 08 23:46:51 Elrond: you feed the input clock in, which gets divided by N Jul 08 23:47:16 Elrond: there is then a PLL, and a divider by R on the output Jul 08 23:47:36 Elrond: the result is that you can get any frequency of N/M * Fin out Jul 08 23:47:46 sorry for the newbie question, but I was wondering if there are any US (t-mobile even better) neo users who can comment on the usability as a main phone? Jul 08 23:47:46 obscurite: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 08 23:47:58 obscurite: not Jul 08 23:48:04 obscurite: months at least yet Jul 08 23:48:09 obscurite: Once we receive ours we can tell you how they work ;-) Jul 08 23:48:30 obscurite: the software is nowhere near finished - it's pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha Jul 08 23:48:32 Very tempted to order a dev kit. Jul 08 23:48:32 myk_ yep. Jul 08 23:48:45 ^pre Jul 08 23:48:57 roh: k, great, thanks for the tip! Jul 08 23:49:09 myk_ when you just hit reply it should be attached to the ticket Jul 08 23:49:12 obscurite: Note you don't need the Neo Advanced if you're just doing software development Jul 08 23:49:15 n.p. Jul 08 23:49:18 I'm not really sure what it's capable of doing at this point, the wiki/portal don't seem to have updated feature lists. Jul 08 23:49:22 Only the basic Jul 08 23:49:31 It makes calls. Barely. Jul 08 23:49:36 And you can log in and modify the software. Jul 08 23:49:49 roh - There really needs to be some clearer info on "This does not yet work as a normal phone, you REALLY should be a developer, if you want to buy it". Jul 08 23:50:13 Does it accept calls? Jul 08 23:50:17 I put that on the wiki about 3 paras down on main page Jul 08 23:50:19 roh - And not so big "You only need the advanced, if you want to do u-boot (or tricky kernel) development." Jul 08 23:50:31 * arachnid doesn't care that much - I know the functionality will be there eventually, and I want to develop - but I'm curious. :) Jul 08 23:50:41 Are you guys going to use a cloned SIM of your existing GSM SIM when you get yours? Jul 08 23:50:59 I think I'm just going to transfer mine as needed Jul 08 23:50:59 Nah, just going to put my SIM in it. Jul 08 23:51:12 I won't be using it as my main phone until I can at least make and receive calls and send and receive text messages Jul 08 23:51:15 I don't intend to break it that badly on a regular basis Jul 08 23:51:17 Which hopefully won't take long :) Jul 08 23:51:39 * ajmitch barely uses his main phone much anyway Jul 08 23:52:05 I was hoping it already made/received calls :) Jul 08 23:52:09 I can't browse the web on my current phone at the moment anyway, so anything extra is a bonus :P Jul 08 23:52:10 arachnid - Text messages will take time. "openmoko-messages" is even more preprepe-alpha than openmoko-dialer. Jul 08 23:52:20 you can make them - not sure if you can receive them Jul 08 23:52:29 Elrond: I intend to work on that myself, if nobody else gets in first. :P Jul 08 23:52:48 * arachnid is thinking along the lines of a gmail-like 'conversation' interface, hopefully with eventual integration with other messenging protocols Jul 08 23:52:57 There was some discussion on the list to that effect Jul 08 23:53:06 arachnid - :-) Talk on the devel list before starting to code. I think, there were soem plans on a "from scratch" thingy. Jul 08 23:53:37 I wonder if Moko will go the way of the Zaurus. Jul 08 23:53:41 I'm on the community list already - I should join the devel one Jul 08 23:53:47 I certainly don't want to duplicate efforts Jul 08 23:53:48 Speedy2 - That is? Jul 08 23:53:58 If I'm not much of a hardware hacker but want to play around is it worth the advanced kit? Jul 08 23:54:05 But text messages seem even more suited to a conversation-based interface than emails, if anything Jul 08 23:54:08 obscurite: no Jul 08 23:54:12 obscurite: Probably not then Jul 08 23:54:25 And every phone's text messaging interface I've used so far is klunky, to say the least. Based around email inbox/outbox concepts. Jul 08 23:54:40 Elrond: Good idea, dies due to more of a "hacking" platform than a real product. Jul 08 23:54:48 Indeed. Blackberry gets it right, in that it displays Emails as conversations and IMs the same as Emails Jul 08 23:54:54 obscurite - You need the advanced kit, if you want to touch u-boot (boot loader) or do tricky kernel development (where you need the serial console) Jul 08 23:55:18 arachnid: The Treo 650 isn't too bad. Jul 08 23:55:50 hads: Haven't used it, actually. Jul 08 23:55:51 Speedy2 - Ahh. Jul 08 23:56:21 Any idea if there will be an upgrade price for GTA02 for dev kit owners? Jul 08 23:56:36 Sorry for all the annoying questions. Jul 08 23:56:38 yes, $450 :) Jul 08 23:56:38 Heh. Jul 08 23:56:42 Elrond: Example, lot of work put into OPIE / OpenZ. Where is it all now? Jul 08 23:56:55 Speedy2: well, product development is hard, and lots of products fail, so anything's possible Jul 08 23:57:04 doc|home - $450 seems to be the standard price Jul 08 23:57:08 Speedy2 - OpenEmbedded is now the basis of OpenMoko ;-) Jul 08 23:57:24 Elrond: That's infrastructure, not a product. Jul 08 23:57:29 Speedy2: but i do think the OpenMoko folks are focused on a quality end-user phone, not a hacking platform Jul 08 23:57:29 obscurite: exactly! (don't mind me, I've no diea and I'm only playing with you) Jul 08 23:57:33 *idea Jul 08 23:57:42 Speedy2 - Ahh, you mean: "Where's the hardware?" :-)) Jul 08 23:58:34 Elrond: No. I have a Zaurus sitting next to me. It fails at basic things like legit power management, etc. Jul 08 23:58:37 obscurite - The "discount on GTA02 for people buying GTA01" has been converted to "discound on all GTA01". ;-) Jul 08 23:58:37 kissing a velociraptor *lol* Jul 08 23:58:38 Are any of you also zaurus hackers? Jul 08 23:59:03 the velociraptor video kicked ass Jul 08 23:59:07 * summatusmentis can't code, but loves his zaurus Jul 08 23:59:08 Speedy2 - Yuck? Still those basic things aren't right? :-| Jul 08 23:59:09 Elrond: The Moko hardware is real. But the software has to be good, not just barely functional. But anyway, just some of my thoughts. Jul 08 23:59:11 * xkr47 ordered two orange and one black base kit!! :D Jul 08 23:59:14 obscurite: $300 for the first release _is_ the discount for people buying it. :) Jul 08 23:59:23 SpeedEvil: zaurus is still alive and kicking, check out #angstrom Jul 08 23:59:47 More people re-inveting infrastructure. Jul 09 00:00:01 angstron, handheld.org, familiar, intimate, openembedded... Jul 09 00:00:04 reinventing infrastructure? Jul 09 00:00:18 angstrom is using openembedded, just like openmok Jul 09 00:00:20 openmoko* Jul 09 00:00:20 opie Jul 09 00:00:38 speedy2: do you write code, are you going to make "the software good"? Jul 09 00:00:43 there's opie in angstrom(tm issues, but yes) Jul 09 00:00:52 Speedy2 - Well... I think, openmoko has a better chance of getting more usable. Jul 09 00:01:06 notserpe: No, I'm not going to make the software "good" . I tried that with Zaurus, it was a waste. Jul 09 00:01:15 Speedy2 - But yes: I have my own "switch off phone" *.desktop, because the standard power-off is b0rked. ;-) Jul 09 00:01:35 was zaurus dev hardware ever $300? Jul 09 00:02:26 notserpe: zaurus wasn't built in a community like openmoko Jul 09 00:02:43 summatus: yep. I know. Jul 09 00:02:44 you had to buy the zaurus itself, w/ the sharp rom on it, then hack a different rom on yourself Jul 09 00:02:59 summatusmentis: No? What was OpenZaurus then? Jul 09 00:03:25 Speedy2: it was not sanctioned by sharp in anyway, unlike openmoko Jul 09 00:03:26 zaurus was too fragmented - i was a moderator on oesf.org for openbsd for a while. there were too many distros and toolchains Jul 09 00:03:31 Speedy2: just the name of the distro that ran on top Jul 09 00:03:48 openmoko has a shot because it's homogeneous Jul 09 00:03:55 god help us if multiple distros start coming up Jul 09 00:04:01 :) Jul 09 00:04:12 Seems unlikely - that happened in response to having no 'official' distro Jul 09 00:04:20 And even if it does happen, they'll be niche. :) Jul 09 00:04:23 the issue, partially, was that the sharp rom blew Jul 09 00:04:44 obscurite i don't fear that.. on the contrary.. eventually universitys have other interrests than endusers, so it even would make sense Jul 09 00:05:00 obscurite but anyways.. the people who use it and code for it decide Jul 09 00:05:00 if openmoko is done right(which, at this point, it seems to be) everyone will be happy Jul 09 00:05:13 the hackers will have a distro they want, which will be the same as the end-user distro Jul 09 00:05:15 roh - i'm partly joking, but it'd be nice for all the work to be usable by all :) Jul 09 00:05:38 roh - I hope so (that the people who code for it, will be heard.) Jul 09 00:05:57 Elrond they are already. Jul 09 00:06:12 (Yes, I had too much experience with Not-Invented-Here projects...) Jul 09 00:07:17 i think werner and harald give alot of cred to the project. Jul 09 00:07:30 Elrond good parts of the staff who made this possible so far are recruited from various embedded linux projects and were always keeping our eyes open for new ideas and projects Jul 09 00:07:53 roh - Great. :-) Jul 09 00:08:00 Elrond thats a part of my job. keeping eyes and head open for other peoples ideas and opinions Jul 09 00:08:23 roh - Super. :-) Jul 09 00:08:24 notserpe yeah. harald, sean and werner are the kick-ass-heros of the day Jul 09 00:09:18 roh - It's really one of the parts, why I like this project so much. People are just nice to each other. :-) Jul 09 00:10:37 roh: Can we expect much application software development from FIC? Jul 09 00:10:43 Or will it be an all-community effort? Jul 09 00:11:11 Elrond ive seen too many commercial projects who said they want to collaborate with opensource fail after the community gave up on it because they either pulled the funding or were 'evil'... thats why i started at openmoko. to once have the experience to do an opensource project together with others _right_. as it should be. open by heart not just by a licensing-sidenote Jul 09 00:11:47 arachnid openmoko will continue to develop on the applications. of course. Jul 09 00:12:29 roh: without those three, I'm not sure I would have tossed the money to FIC for the Adv and Base today but would have watched in the wings for a while. Jul 09 00:12:31 arachnid this is not intended as the usual 'build hardware, let the community do the job of the engineers'-scheme. there does not come any good out of that, just grief Jul 09 00:13:07 notserpe: you just bought both models? Jul 09 00:13:24 arachnid this means: the basic phone apps, pim etc will be developed further fully funded. of course we take patches, but we will not force the community to do the engineers tasks Jul 09 00:13:35 yep: one for another developer friend. Jul 09 00:13:49 morning Jul 09 00:13:56 morning rwhitby Jul 09 00:15:03 notserpe: I see Jul 09 00:15:28 not sure I need the debug board but it will be nice to have. Jul 09 00:15:45 notserpe - the box looks fun. :-) Jul 09 00:16:09 Also *I* miss the pouch on my Bv03. ;-) Jul 09 00:16:33 hi roh, you may or may not be able to answer my question but I've placed 2 orders on openmoko.com and haven't received a confirmation email for either of them :-( Jul 09 00:17:38 duffyd - I'd (unoofficially!) say "give them a day to work through the myriad of orders". Jul 09 00:17:51 duffyd i can look it up if you tell me the email addr. you used Jul 09 00:17:52 ok Jul 09 00:18:11 roh: thanks! duffyd -at- kokorice.org Jul 09 00:18:37 rwhitby: you missed the madness Jul 09 00:19:19 cesarb: I read the backlog :-) Jul 09 00:19:48 :) Jul 09 00:19:56 Do we know, which u-boot is on the shipped phones? Jul 09 00:21:02 duffyd hm.. i cannot find the ticket. how long ago was it? Jul 09 00:21:30 roh: first order was at 6am (Taiwan time) second was at about 7am Jul 09 00:21:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page]] [[User:EsbenDamgaard]] [[Group_Order]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[PIM_Storage]] [[Bluetooth_Connection_Status]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:HadleyRich]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] and other changes Jul 09 00:22:04 duffyd did you get through to the 3rd page? Jul 09 00:22:10 roh: yes Jul 09 00:22:31 both times Jul 09 00:23:08 roh: I placed the order with Opera both times as FF seemed to have issues Jul 09 00:23:22 I can place another order with FF if you like Jul 09 00:23:57 roh: I didn't put a ZIP code in, though, as I don't think there are any in Taiwan? Jul 09 00:24:01 I don't know what it would be anyway Jul 09 00:24:14 duffyd aaah... that could explain Jul 09 00:24:45 yeah.. error handling is quite .. eeeh.. ruff atm Jul 09 00:25:01 roh: what should I put for a ZIP code? Jul 09 00:25:10 as I don't think there are any here in Taiwan Jul 09 00:25:19 Apropos browser: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS seems to crash my FF 2.0.0.4... does that happen for anyone else? Jul 09 00:25:23 (OT) Jul 09 00:25:28 duffyd arent there destrict numbers? Jul 09 00:25:45 Elrond: opens fine for me Jul 09 00:25:50 not that I can see Jul 09 00:26:00 cesarb - strange. Jul 09 00:27:22 Elrond - works ok on my osx 2.0.0.4 Jul 09 00:27:57 Hmm, I'll update some libraries then... strange. Jul 09 00:28:13 Thanks for testing. :-) Jul 09 00:28:34 roh: ahhh, found them on a govt website Jul 09 00:28:39 I'll chuck it in now Jul 09 00:30:55 Man, choice between orange and silver is difficult. Jul 09 00:31:15 duffyd i can only guess when it comes to taiwanese addresses ;) when i was in taipeh i was using paper cards with chinese prints on it to let the cabdriver find out what i want Jul 09 00:31:34 not for me... orange is too visible, and it's not good to call attention to your gadgets Jul 09 00:31:35 good night and thanks to anyone who helped P1 come true Jul 09 00:32:44 cesarb eheh.. tell that to an apple customer with a shiny macbook under its arm and a iphone in the hand Jul 09 00:33:05 roh: 3rd order placed Jul 09 00:33:24 roh: I understand the language problem ;-) Jul 09 00:34:06 roh: btw do you know if it's true that if you're in Taiwan you can pick up a Neo direct from the Taipei offices? Jul 09 00:34:31 roh: I don't see anyone with a shiny macbook under its arm on the street, and it would be a rather foolish thing to try Jul 09 00:34:46 roh: of course, laptop carrying cases are less of a problem Jul 09 00:35:16 I use my extremely expensive macbook pro in public all the time. Then again, I have a deathwish. Jul 09 00:35:50 roh: are you able to confirm if that order went through? Jul 09 00:35:50 obscurite: admit it, you just want to start fights :P Jul 09 00:35:52 duffyd dunno. you could ask in the comment field or via mail. i'm in germany right now... Jul 09 00:35:54 plz Jul 09 00:36:26 duffyd yeah. i see it Jul 09 00:36:43 great! Jul 09 00:36:54 roh: do you think I'll miss out because of the delay? Jul 09 00:37:23 duffyd, wtf, you ordered again? Jul 09 00:37:34 duffyd nooo.. there are still enough as far as i can see Jul 09 00:37:37 roh, just submitted another order for you. :) Jul 09 00:37:52 Psi_: yeah, according to roh my previous orders didn't get through :-( Jul 09 00:38:13 roh - how many were made and how many are left? can you release that info? Jul 09 00:38:15 ah, well if you know that, then thats ok :) Jul 09 00:38:19 | tic: symbol lookup error: tic: undefined symbol: _nc_check_termtype Jul 09 00:38:31 blech Jul 09 00:39:03 roh, do you know whats happening with the colors? Jul 09 00:39:07 ie who gets what? Jul 09 00:42:28 mh Jul 09 00:42:30 just wondering if there is a definite color people get when they dont specify one Jul 09 00:42:35 i just ordered 2 neos Jul 09 00:42:44 not that it matters for me, i put black/silver in the comments :) Jul 09 00:42:45 is there any possibility to choose the color? Jul 09 00:43:08 borg_, ya put it in the comments section Jul 09 00:43:13 ah Jul 09 00:43:14 uh Jul 09 00:43:16 :P Jul 09 00:43:18 Psi_ - Just state the color wish in the comment field. Jul 09 00:43:26 yeah i did Jul 09 00:43:35 mh Jul 09 00:43:41 i was just wondering what people who dont specify it get Jul 09 00:43:52 if its random or always one color Jul 09 00:43:52 can i send an email or something like this? Jul 09 00:43:58 Psi_ - I hope they get soem email asking for color. ;-) Jul 09 00:44:00 wonder if I can use the neo toolchain on vmware on my mac... Jul 09 00:44:16 sorry, openmoko toolchain Jul 09 00:44:38 Psi_ yeah. big fuckup the color thingie.. just specify it in a reply on the ticket or the comment field if you havent ordered Jul 09 00:45:08 Psi_ we fscked up the form and i do not want to touch it now *watching the counter* Jul 09 00:45:12 roh: any chance the currently self-signed certificate could be changed to a cacert certificate on direct.openmoko.com? A self-signed certificate doesn't protect against MITM, while a cacert one does Jul 09 00:45:16 omg what if i get a gray one!! Jul 09 00:45:34 Psi_ worldwide shipping, billing and CC handling is so much pain we just wanted to get it done and totally forgot about colors Jul 09 00:45:43 roh - Can you make sure, that people, who haven't specified a color, get asked for the color? :-) Jul 09 00:45:51 roh, its ok, we forgive you :) Jul 09 00:46:11 cesarb its not cacert? we will fix that of course Jul 09 00:46:13 Elrond, yes, that would be a good idea Jul 09 00:46:35 roh: it's self-signed... else my firefox wouldn't warn (I have the cacert root) Jul 09 00:46:52 Elrond yes. propably we will mail these people as soon as we see any land.. currently the rt is generating tickets faster than i can click on next Jul 09 00:47:02 mokomakefile gives me: | ----------- ERROR ----------- | Cannot find/read SableVM classes. Please report. | | make[4]: *** [gnu/gettext/GettextResource.class] Error 1 Jul 09 00:47:15 roh: demand greater than expected? ;-) Jul 09 00:47:39 roh - I just wanted to make sure, it's not getting lost in the chaos. :-) Jul 09 00:47:40 * Psi_ reads order reply message Jul 09 00:47:58 (just wait until slashdot hears about it...) Jul 09 00:48:52 Anyway. Good night people. :-) Jul 09 00:49:13 Where can I grab the toolchain, etc? Jul 09 00:50:03 Psi_: You gave in and ordered? Jul 09 00:50:08 I guess I just want OE. Jul 09 00:50:12 arachnid, yes Jul 09 00:50:22 because its actually still cheaper than i budgeted Jul 09 00:50:28 because of the US-NZ exchange rate atm Jul 09 00:51:22 Yeah, nice exchange rate. :) Jul 09 00:51:26 yep Jul 09 00:52:03 obscurite: mokomakefile Jul 09 00:52:35 Still going to have to pay GST and handling (and worse, wait longer) unless they'll mark it as a sample or gift for me. :) Jul 09 00:53:22 i put something like "please indicate its a linux phone development kit" in the comments section Jul 09 00:53:38 ie. on the customs form Jul 09 00:54:05 I asked if they could mark it as a gift or otherwise discount the price. Jul 09 00:54:12 dad does some work out in the NZ intl mail center on the xray machines and said it may help them to ignore it Jul 09 00:54:23 Asking for it to be marked as a sample or, as you said, development kit, would've been better. :/ Jul 09 00:54:33 The delay bothers me more than the price. :P Jul 09 00:55:42 apparently at the akl mail center they just ignore everything unless it looks like it may have drugs in it, then they open it, if no drugs they charge gst cos they may as well since they have already half processed it Jul 09 00:55:59 heh Jul 09 00:56:09 I thought they always charged on stuff costing more than $400 Jul 09 00:56:13 (More than $50GST) Jul 09 00:56:30 but he said they are often letting stuff go through that's over a grand without charging gst simply because of whats in it (xray) and who its from Jul 09 00:56:48 huh. Jul 09 00:56:54 Depends how it gets shipped. We've had probably around 5 boxes a year opened and inspected. Jul 09 00:56:56 One can only hope. :) Jul 09 00:56:57 well, this is the AKL mail centre, your one may be more picky, maybe they dont have as much stuff to process so have more time to check it all Jul 09 00:57:18 From looking at trakcing on stuff I've ordered in the past, I think all intl mail goes through the akl mail center for customs anyway Jul 09 00:57:28 hads out of how many? Jul 09 00:57:59 Psi_: Probably a couple of hundred or so. Jul 09 00:58:07 thats pretty good odds Jul 09 00:58:21 Yeah, actually that's probably an overestimate. Jul 09 00:58:31 the ones that got inspected, anything odd about them? Jul 09 00:58:32 Maybe 100-150/year Jul 09 00:58:57 Hm. I have renewed hope. :) Jul 09 00:59:12 Nope, nothing interesting about any of the shipments. Jul 09 01:00:02 The benefit of importing is having accounts so the GST gets charged and it doesn't hold up the shipment :) Jul 09 01:00:04 dad said hand written address get more attention than printed ones Jul 09 01:00:13 hads: got any more interested in a group order? Jul 09 01:00:33 since they get a lot of people trying to send over stuff like food, to family members etc.. Jul 09 01:00:57 ajmitch: Not so far, waiting on a group of 4 others who expressed interest 6 months ago. Jul 09 01:01:17 Huh, I only just noticed how fancy the stylus is. :) Jul 09 01:01:23 url? Jul 09 01:01:51 http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html Jul 09 01:01:54 Click on 'stylus' on the left Jul 09 01:02:17 arachnid - yah, laser pointer ;) Jul 09 01:02:23 nice Jul 09 01:02:34 i forgot about the laser pointer Jul 09 01:02:35 Pretty darn fancy. Jul 09 01:02:38 that was in one of the videos Jul 09 01:02:39 hah, nice Jul 09 01:02:41 * ajmitch wants Jul 09 01:02:43 I was expecting a bit of cast plastic. :) Jul 09 01:02:47 yeah Jul 09 01:03:02 if only it were controllable via bluetooth Jul 09 01:03:05 what are those 3 bits do you think? Jul 09 01:03:09 you could have a moko-laser-light-show Jul 09 01:03:13 haha Jul 09 01:03:19 Psi_: batteries Jul 09 01:03:27 oh, yeah just read it Jul 09 01:03:57 powerful, "266HZ Samsung" Jul 09 01:04:04 Is anyone doing data calls on it yet? Jul 09 01:06:20 I've seen ideas for an alternate casing, removing the big hole in the bottom. Could that space be occupied by an extended screen, if one were to purchase it? Jul 09 01:18:20 there's a mic somewhere in that hole... Jul 09 01:18:57 <_alcik_> and the gsm antenna i think... Jul 09 01:20:35 really? the pictures of the board looks like there's nothing below the upper edge(the flat part) Jul 09 01:21:19 No, not really. It's a cellphone without a microphone. Jul 09 01:21:42 You listen to people and type your responses back. They get synthesized using festival. Jul 09 01:22:26 <_alcik_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 4th and last picture Jul 09 01:22:34 arachnid: :-) I'm just a newb, no worries Jul 09 01:22:47 don't worry, I'm just being facetious. ;) Jul 09 01:23:09 arachnid: I know, and _alcik_ just showed me that I'm wrong, so... Jul 09 01:24:39 I meant to say that I'm being facetious, not sarcastic. :) Jul 09 01:26:18 damn, the mic is in the way. if it weren't, you could still use a larger screen... Jul 09 01:27:28 the cost of getting a larger screen manufactured for a (potentially) small userbase could be a lot Jul 09 01:27:56 ajmitch: true, but I'm sure someone is already selling some form of larger screen Jul 09 01:28:25 For the openmoko? I doubt it. Jul 09 01:28:36 w/ some standard connector? Jul 09 01:28:42 oh Jul 09 01:28:46 you'd also need to have everything else built around the larger screen Jul 09 01:28:54 USB or bluetooth would be the only candidates Jul 09 01:29:03 And there's no standard way to address such an external display, so I doubt it Jul 09 01:29:39 unless there was some small DVI connector, which would be rather unlikely Jul 09 01:29:49 arachnid: it'd be a replacement screen, as compared to an external one Jul 09 01:30:05 and ajmitch, yes, I realize the casing, etc. would need to be rebuilt Jul 09 01:30:12 summatusmentis: Then you'd have to - somehow - unsolder the existing screen to replace it Jul 09 01:30:18 Hardly a practical procedure for most Jul 09 01:30:26 is it soldered? Jul 09 01:30:51 there are pics of the GTA01 device where someone is holding the screen above the board Jul 09 01:31:42 I could be wrong - perhaps it has a ribbon connector Jul 09 01:31:53 But it seems to fit into the board pretty snugly Jul 09 01:32:07 I think a different device (they are planned) would be a more practical solution Jul 09 01:32:08 this is all purely hypothetical... hrm Jul 09 01:32:39 I'll probably have to wait for the next gen of devices anyway(locked into a cdma contract, college student, etc.) Jul 09 01:33:03 a good thing that telecom in NZ are moving towards GSM Jul 09 01:33:22 * arachnid prefers Vodafone anyway Jul 09 01:33:30 the cell providers in US are stupid Jul 09 01:34:12 t-mo is the least retarded and they are still pretty stupid Jul 09 01:34:27 arachnid: so do I, but it means more people able to use this Jul 09 01:34:37 true Jul 09 01:35:02 thanks guys, be back later, maybe Jul 09 01:35:51 the screen does have a ribbon cable Jul 09 01:46:39 Anybody have any idea on how many Neos have been ordered? Jul 09 01:46:56 we know how many orders have been made Jul 09 01:47:04 (roughly) Jul 09 01:47:06 but we dont know how many phones Jul 09 01:47:17 how many? Jul 09 01:47:32 well, we know at least 130 orders Jul 09 01:47:38 assuming they aren't being funny with the numbers Jul 09 01:48:08 I think I got darn near the first one. Whats the highest order number you have seen? Jul 09 01:48:20 1970 Jul 09 01:48:21 2019 Jul 09 01:48:36 so is there java on openmoko, or is java just needed by mokomakefile 'just because'? Jul 09 01:48:48 wow, that would be 200 psi Jul 09 01:48:54 yep Jul 09 01:49:02 galexande the ticket ids are not saying anything. they are just unique, incremental and not only used for orders/shipping Jul 09 01:49:11 and some people will have order 2 or more Jul 09 01:49:29 Psi_: it should still give us a rough idea. Jul 09 01:49:51 what is the ship date for US orders? Jul 09 01:50:02 if you import the buying interest list into excel you could get an avg for the number of phone per order Jul 09 01:50:14 psi, but there's hardly any data there Jul 09 01:50:42 according to the community list it may be as late as the 16th Jul 09 01:50:56 galexande, there is 342 entries Jul 09 01:51:20 i guess i don't know what you're talking about :) Jul 09 01:51:28 jason, as early as the 16th :) Jul 09 01:51:39 galexande, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List Jul 09 01:51:42 Jason1 japp.. shipping can take a few days Jul 09 01:51:50 unoffical list of what people intended to buy Jul 09 01:52:19 Yeah. I understand that the units are still in China. sitting in customs waiting to be airmailed to California Jul 09 01:52:20 it will be pretty close to 1 per order Jul 09 01:52:28 maybe 1.1 or 1.05 Jul 09 01:52:57 wow, so it might actually sell out Jul 09 01:52:59 thank god i'm like 20 in line Jul 09 01:53:20 a better question is: how many orders are from users v. how many from people trying to build a business with this phone... Jul 09 01:53:29 galexande: always an optimist Jul 09 01:53:56 i doubt anyone will do mass business orders of the development version Jul 09 01:54:40 that's not what I asked. how many here have ordered a phone to serve as a prototype for some business. Jul 09 01:54:41 Yeah, I don't think anyone is going to be selling these retail Jul 09 01:54:44 DukeOfURL: could be Jul 09 01:54:50 DukeOfUrl: What sort of business,exactly? Jul 09 01:54:53 galexande, afaik they have like 1000 phones Jul 09 01:54:58 any business Jul 09 01:55:03 so 200/1000 is still fine Jul 09 01:55:13 can you think of any sort of business you'd found based on buying a phone? Jul 09 01:55:25 If you're planning on writing software for it, you can use emulators etc Jul 09 01:55:26 arachnid: Lots of business potential here... GPS related services, etc Jul 09 01:55:41 location aware apps., etc. Jul 09 01:55:47 Jason1: Sure, but they don't require buying a phone, and they'll be mostly from existing companies adding a new platform Jul 09 01:55:51 vehicle tracking Jul 09 01:55:51 alot of potential, but high risk in using a development version Jul 09 01:56:23 you're missing the point. who here plans to make a business using the Neo? Jul 09 01:56:25 id imagine some business might be ordering a few phones to start development on Jul 09 01:56:30 arachnid: true, Although I would imagine you might want a few development/test units. Jul 09 01:56:43 true Jul 09 01:57:16 But I don't think it terribly likely that many are going to start a business based on one device Jul 09 01:57:40 Porting a commercial package to this device, certainly, but not starting one based on it, given its unknown market potential, and the huge number of mobile devices out there Jul 09 01:57:44 on a Linux-based cell phone? Jul 09 01:58:12 Why restrict your business to one linux based cellphone when you can make your product work on many and just port it to OpenMoko? Jul 09 01:58:17 I plan on starting a business using the Neo as a vehicle to sell services Jul 09 01:58:18 psi, but my name isn't on the list of 342 buyers...so there's no good way to estimate how many people like me will buy it without anouncing our intentions Jul 09 01:58:47 very true, i was just saying it could give an average Jul 09 01:58:55 galexande: shame on you for not adding yourself to the list Jul 09 01:58:56 heh Jul 09 01:59:10 Jason1: some people are shy... Jul 09 01:59:22 DukeOfUrl: I wish you luck. I think, though, that services are far more useful when they're not restricted to a single device, no matter how good that device is Jul 09 01:59:32 then ya can apply that avg to the current number of orders and take an educated guess at the number of phones sold Jul 09 01:59:58 fine. wha other device allows access to GPS? GPRS? WiFi? Jul 09 02:00:02 wow so today a bunch of nerds spent like $60-90k on phones Jul 09 02:00:08 pretty awesome, a force to be reckoned with Jul 09 02:00:11 * roh waits for the 200th customer Jul 09 02:00:12 Any number of CE based devices Jul 09 02:00:36 galexande: correction: A bunch of COOL nerds, spent Jul 09 02:00:47 jason, speak for yourself Jul 09 02:00:52 Many cellphones, though you'll have to go through the manufacturers and/or networks to get it deployed Jul 09 02:00:55 galexande: LOl Jul 09 02:00:55 s/nerds/geeks ;) Jul 09 02:01:26 roh: may have already passed Jul 09 02:01:39 Jason1 nope. Jul 09 02:01:44 CE devices? Jul 09 02:01:52 are you kidding? Jul 09 02:01:53 Jason1 i have exactly 199 tickets in front of me Jul 09 02:02:08 rih: ohh. Didnt realize you were someone important :) Jul 09 02:02:09 DukeOfUrl: not really, I've done coding for one of those Jul 09 02:02:20 roh, you've always been important to me Jul 09 02:02:29 haha Jul 09 02:02:44 DukeOfUrl: though it did involve writing to various serial ports to access the devices Jul 09 02:02:49 roh: what number did hte tickets start at? Jul 09 02:03:00 roh, 1 ticket per phone or per order? Jul 09 02:03:01 anyhow, the Neo is only the first of many devices... Jul 09 02:03:04 Jason1 i'm not important ;) im just glad to work here on this cool project Jul 09 02:03:11 Psi_ per order Jul 09 02:03:16 Psi_: He did say 200th customer, not 200th order :) Jul 09 02:03:36 DukeOfUrl: Yup, and I hope they do very well indeed, but they still have totally unproven market potential Jul 09 02:03:51 Jason1 its just our normal RT ticketnumber. given out for every mail. so it also increments when spam enters a unrelated queue Jul 09 02:04:05 and that's what this community needs to do--open new markets Jul 09 02:04:05 i think this phone could really be superior, for the end user, compared to iphone Jul 09 02:04:09 rt rocks Jul 09 02:04:21 roh: I know... I just wanted to see how close I was to the first order, roughly speaking Jul 09 02:04:22 * ajmitch hopes he can use one as an ogg vorbis player - the one I use constantly needs reset :) Jul 09 02:04:25 Linux phones could become the dominant type of phones, with everyone owning one - I hope so - but they might not, and I wouldn't want to found a business based on a development release of a phone with unknown potential, personally. Jul 09 02:04:26 DukeOfUrl no hurries.. were on it Jul 09 02:04:47 That is, a business depending on those phones, not even manufacturing them Jul 09 02:04:50 why do you want to compete with iPhone? let's innovate new stuff... Jul 09 02:04:56 roh: I think you will find my order very close to the top of the list Jul 09 02:05:07 i hope i'm not actually #2047... i'd be waiting a while! Jul 09 02:05:10 ;) Jul 09 02:05:28 Hey, that's a lucky number. ;) Jul 09 02:05:36 Jason1 whats your ticketnumber? Jul 09 02:05:37 moto is moving to linux phones this year but they're not so open Jul 09 02:05:37 arachnid: :) Jul 09 02:05:42 i don't think features are the problem with smart phones, i think it's the fact that the obvious flaws amke you want to fling the thing across the room Jul 09 02:05:49 roh: 1820 Jul 09 02:05:54 2048 would be a geek lucky number :P Jul 09 02:05:57 Wow, you can buy it! Jul 09 02:06:07 Psi_: count from 0 :) Jul 09 02:06:11 Jason1 then you really got the first order through Jul 09 02:06:20 bhima, you might be order 200 if you move quick Jul 09 02:06:25 ajmitch, hehe Jul 09 02:06:26 WOW! Awesome!!! Jul 09 02:06:27 Psi_: Well, 2047 is too - largest number representable in 10 bits. :) Jul 09 02:06:29 too late.. 202 now Jul 09 02:06:40 I have an iPhone already. :/ Jul 09 02:06:51 bhima: :( Jul 09 02:07:24 bhima you can still start reverse engineering it ;) Jul 09 02:07:33 start? Jul 09 02:07:38 its just much more work Jul 09 02:07:42 bhima, buy an openmoko to be its friend and you get a mobile dual-screen setup :-) Jul 09 02:07:49 I'm only poking around a little bit. Jul 09 02:07:53 bhima ok.. propably someone else already started Jul 09 02:08:07 * bhima already has a Nokia 770 and N800. :) Jul 09 02:08:39 bhima, see you can have lots and lots of nice toys :-) Jul 09 02:08:44 do you have a GI-issue pistol belt to carry all those phones? Jul 09 02:08:47 openmoko: 03werner * r2373 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: Jul 09 02:08:47 openmoko: - bumped PR Jul 09 02:08:47 openmoko: - use "find" to locate lowlevel_foo, instead of trying to predict path name Jul 09 02:08:53 * arachnid guesses he was order #26, then. :) Jul 09 02:08:54 DukeOfUrl: Cargo shorts. Jul 09 02:09:09 w/ big pockets :-) Jul 09 02:09:34 My pen has two processors. Jul 09 02:09:54 bhima: when you want to make a call, how do you decide which phone to use??? Jul 09 02:10:04 bhima: you should still have time to return the iphone! Jul 09 02:10:11 DukeOfUrl: Nokia 770 and N800 aren't phones.... Jul 09 02:10:17 roh: So do you have your own one to play with yet? ;) Jul 09 02:10:19 oh Jul 09 02:10:25 The iPhone, UI-wise, blows away everything else I've ever touched. Jul 09 02:10:31 And its browser is astoundingly good. Jul 09 02:10:58 If it weren't for the huge number of drawbacks (and lack of availablilty over here), I'd be tempted Jul 09 02:11:02 arachnid of course ;) Jul 09 02:11:06 bhima: Give us a little time. and you will be sayign the samething about OpenMoko and its familtyof devices Jul 09 02:11:07 I think I will get a wifi enabled openmoko device when it ships. Jul 09 02:11:20 But the iPhone is less open than your average closed phone. Jul 09 02:11:29 i think steve's tivoizing his own mac line... look at appletv too Jul 09 02:11:33 i must confess, mokomakefile is pretty slick. Jul 09 02:11:38 arachnid an older prototype with broken bt... hopefully i will get a release one soon also Jul 09 02:11:45 roh: cool Jul 09 02:12:03 Jason1: I think you'll have the feature part down, but, please don't take this the wrong way. The UI on the iPhone is more polished and effective than _any_ other UI, with lots and lots of engineers on their projects. Jul 09 02:12:06 there's really no reason iphone couldn't also be macphone Jul 09 02:12:56 I think that Apple set out a specific, minimal list of features for the iPhone and said "nothing but those, period. Finish them and then keep polishing them over and over" Jul 09 02:12:59 bhima: We can be 'inspired' by the iPhone, an advantage no previous cellphone developer has had ;) Jul 09 02:13:08 funny, iphone discussion here, meanwhile i started an openmoko discussion on the iphone hacking channel ;) Jul 09 02:13:15 the whole network security thing... if that was true there'd be wince apps that would've blown open the cell networks already Jul 09 02:13:25 bhima - yeah... Jul 09 02:13:31 bhima: I agree, it is VERY slick. of course as close as I have come to it is the TV ads and YouTube. However, I dont know that more engineers = better product Jul 09 02:13:53 arachnid: true, true Jul 09 02:14:03 Jason1: UIQ doesn't have many engineers. Their UI sucks. :) Jul 09 02:14:13 But, more engineers, yeah. Not a good idea. Jul 09 02:14:19 Network security is a silly excuse. Jul 09 02:14:27 happycube you can ignore the network security stuff. its just FUD from people who seem not to have a clue about the technology (regardless of politics) Jul 09 02:14:40 Network traffic however, given the initial sales volume, would be an issue. Jul 09 02:15:19 (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger Re: why no lowlevel_foo for gtaXX ? Jul 09 02:15:20 I'd like to pair an iPhone with an openmoko wifi enabled device. Jul 09 02:16:34 When I'm travelling internationally, I would _really_ like the flexibility to do bizarre stuff. Jul 09 02:16:45 Like having a phone with a VoIP interface at my hotel room. Jul 09 02:17:01 Dial a number on my phone, route the call over mobile-mobile to the room, dial over VOIP Jul 09 02:20:40 yeah, allot of airport lounges now have wifi Jul 09 02:20:56 a lot of them charge a ton for it too Jul 09 02:21:08 How easy is it to use fingers on the neo1973 screen? Jul 09 02:21:08 meh..claim it back on tax Jul 09 02:21:36 bhima, there are two sets of openmoko gui widgets, one is oriented for finger use and it is used in apps like the dialer Jul 09 02:21:50 obscurite: what's the general reaction to openmoko on the i phone hacking channel? Jul 09 02:21:59 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] Jul 09 02:22:15 Physically? Jul 09 02:22:42 galexande: when your an exec or engineer on $200p/hr paying $$$ for wifi at the airport in not a big deal Jul 09 02:22:54 obscurite: what server is that channel on? Jul 09 02:23:07 is* Jul 09 02:23:38 i wonder how many phones have been ordered (i'd be shocked if everyone ordered just 1) Jul 09 02:23:42 myk_ - no general consensus, but some prefer the reverse engineering of the iphone and the fact that it already works well Jul 09 02:23:52 weez - irc.osx86.hu #iphone Jul 09 02:24:13 there are a few other iphone hacking channels, that's a general discussion one Jul 09 02:24:20 ahhhh Jul 09 02:24:27 thanks Jul 09 02:24:47 Other than the explicit locks in place, I think the iPhone is, from a user layer standpoint, probably one of the most open phones out there. Jul 09 02:25:03 It looks like it has a fairly standard UNIX implementation + custom GUI frameworks. Jul 09 02:25:19 heh, hacking the iphone is like hacking a safe with a drill then saying, ooh look how much better my swiss cheese safe is Jul 09 02:25:43 And unlike the motorola Linux phones, it doesn't have everything strangely implemented within entire apps rather than with APIs. Jul 09 02:26:08 bhima, i had a samsung palmos phone, and the palmos side of it was as open as can be, but the dialer app was closed, and so you couldn't do anything about the factt that it was a shitty cellphone Jul 09 02:26:16 i'm sure the iphone will be a nice hacking platform with all the developers on the project. there's a lot of passion for apple hardware :) Jul 09 02:26:47 obscurite, yeah if they bother to run linux on the ipod :) Jul 09 02:27:00 obscurite: its still a crippled platform with apple doing firmware updates to stuff up any hacks Jul 09 02:27:03 galexande - exactly... a million monkeys on typewriters ;) Jul 09 02:27:03 bhima: All of that is totally irrelevant - yes, it's based on open technologies, but it's closed up tight Jul 09 02:27:40 All of that low-level stuff is no use, because you can't actually do anything with any of that short of hacking the phone Jul 09 02:27:43 arachnid: People can write to arbitrary files on the file system right now... Jul 09 02:27:50 obscurite: the iphone has the same logic to it as the Sony PSP, Sony "yes everyone is welcome to hack it until we say no" that didnt last long Jul 09 02:28:07 bhima: Only by hacking it and exploiting bugs. That's not 'open' Jul 09 02:28:16 I have a feeling the iphone will have a nice toolchain and a larger dev community than openmoko Jul 09 02:28:20 bhima, but can they call gsmd_dial("18001234567"); or do they have to hack Dialer.app ? Jul 09 02:28:25 But openmoko is a different animal, and one I prefer Jul 09 02:28:28 arachnid: Oh, yes. I'm not trying to say that it's open. Jul 09 02:28:49 obscurite: you mean with its none existent SDL lol doubt it Jul 09 02:28:56 I'm saying that if it gets hacked in the way that I think it will, it will be pretty decent. Jul 09 02:29:02 linux_galore - with that many obsessed hackers it's a matter of time :) Jul 09 02:29:26 bhima, people already have shell on the iPhone Jul 09 02:29:36 < bhima> Other than the explicit locks in place, I think the iPhone is, from a user layer standpoint, probably one of the most open phones out there. Jul 09 02:29:39 What was that? :) Jul 09 02:29:54 obscurite: Apple has never been pro third party, Apple have always had a "do it our way or take the high road" they are worse than Microsoft on this Jul 09 02:29:56 carrar: They have limited bootloader access.... Jul 09 02:30:00 arachnid, i thhink he was comparing it to wince phones :) Jul 09 02:30:03 bhima: If you have to hack it, it's not open, though Jul 09 02:30:04 linux_galore - time will tell I suppose Jul 09 02:30:05 i'm actually pretty happy that apple released the iPhone, because i think it's the best possible competition for openmoko Jul 09 02:30:14 please.. come down a bit Jul 09 02:30:19 bhima, pretty good for the time it's been in the public I would say Jul 09 02:30:27 its not pro or con iphone or moko Jul 09 02:30:38 galexande: I would call a wince phone more open. Neither one gives you legitimate access to the kernel or the source, but at least the ce phone lets you write software for it. Jul 09 02:31:05 god once i got a palmtop, and the linux kernel supported it but there was no bootloader, so all i had to do was write a wince bootloader, maybe 20 hours of work Jul 09 02:31:07 * carrar waits for his moko to arrive Jul 09 02:31:10 linux_galore - now osx can even run my sony ux280p (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3611592967008496528) Jul 09 02:31:10 it not only inspires openmoko development, its development model provides the starkest contrast to openmoko's Jul 09 02:31:13 but i couldn't stand to write for wince, even that long Jul 09 02:31:16 arachnid: I stand by my statement....Motorola's Linux phones had device drivers built into the applications that used them, iirc. Jul 09 02:31:33 A policy decision by Apple would make the iPhone one of the easiest to develop for IMHO. Jul 09 02:31:34 obscurite: there are some pretty powerful HTC/Toshiba WinCE phones out now ie Toshiba G900 Jul 09 02:31:38 just think about redistribution of binarys a moment.. how are the libs on both systems licenced? and what is with code which links against them. so even if you open some closed device and get a toolchain to work it does not mean you can redistribute every thing you build everywhere Jul 09 02:31:56 Possibly, but they didn't make that decision, and don't look likely to Jul 09 02:32:12 linux_galore - yeah, I'm a big fan of HTC Jul 09 02:32:19 You could say the same for any other phone with software written by the manufacturer, too. Jul 09 02:33:02 An iPhone is open in the same sense that your chest is open - it requires a surgeon and a whole lot of tools, and isn't tenable for most people. ;) Jul 09 02:33:09 obscurite: the HTC phones Ive seen are pretty amazing (3D graphics) and have a pile more options that the iphone Jul 09 02:33:23 arachnid: That's not true, though. The UIQ phone I developed for, SE P800, integrated its WAP stack with the browser, so you couldn't actually get access to any WAP calls. You needed to write your own WAP stack, for example. Jul 09 02:33:45 bhima: You can't get access to any of that on the iPhone either, because you can't write software for it at all! Jul 09 02:33:58 bhima - that's nuts! Jul 09 02:34:22 arachnid: Please pay attention to what I am saying. Policy vs. technical. Jul 09 02:34:34 bhima: Both are policy. Jul 09 02:34:40 I think there are two major stuff ups though with the iphine 1. AT&T 2. Battery and maybe 3. camera with no flash or focus Jul 09 02:34:52 arachnid: One _was_ policy that became technical. Jul 09 02:35:00 arachnid bhima is right. in theory and while completely ignoring licensing issues in theory its possible Jul 09 02:35:01 The iPhone is closed by policy, and I'm sure integrating the wap stack into the app wasn't purely technical Jul 09 02:35:12 linux_galore - no point in discussing the iphone drawbacks. everyone acknowledges it's got limited features, but the prettiness makes up for it. Jul 09 02:35:16 its just not feasible due to the amount of reverse-engineering needed Jul 09 02:35:18 At least when the restrictions is technical you can legally get around them Jul 09 02:35:24 roh: I'm not arguing it can't be done. Jul 09 02:35:30 I'm saying that it's not open if you have to pry it open Jul 09 02:35:39 same as with openezx. its easier to build a new phone than to reverse one where the manuf. does not help you Jul 09 02:35:44 And especially not if the result of your work is, at the end of the day, of dubious legality. Jul 09 02:35:49 arachnid: I poked around the phone enough that I don't think they intended to do silly things like putting the WAP stack in the browser to make my life harder. Jul 09 02:36:16 bhima: No, but they didn't have to - by closing it to 3rd party developers, you can't develop software (legitimately, and in a supported manner) at all Jul 09 02:36:21 arachnid: HTC actually has the same prettiness with some funky 3D effects ie menu swapping is just amazing Jul 09 02:36:33 linux_galore: Cool Jul 09 02:37:00 How much harder can they make your life than by prohibiting 3rd party apps altogether? Jul 09 02:37:08 let me say it this way: i life in germany where reverse engineering is legal as long as it was neccessary to archieve compatibility and even i would not put binarys linked agains libs on the iphone on my site Jul 09 02:37:12 At the end of the year I will have to face a touch decision. Upgrade to a new HTC or buy the next gen openmoko. We'll see how the next four months of hacking go. Jul 09 02:37:16 same with game consoles. Jul 09 02:37:19 roh: Exactly. :) Jul 09 02:37:27 arachnid: firmware updates the stuff up any new hacks Jul 09 02:37:35 that* Jul 09 02:37:52 roh: There have been some pretty good legal decisions in the use allowign reverse engineering. Jul 09 02:38:00 yup Jul 09 02:38:08 Sony did that with the PSP, firmware updates removed allot of the ability to hack the thing Jul 09 02:38:13 another example of "it's not open if you have to pry ie open" Jul 09 02:38:26 bhima yeah.. its one of the last nice places on earth when it comes to that Jul 09 02:38:44 openmoko will always be the ugly sister, but hopefully also the smarter sister ;) Jul 09 02:38:47 yeah, they pretty much have pried the psp totally open though, in terms of downgrading and running apps Jul 09 02:38:48 I _vastly_ prefer the openness of the neo1973. Please don't misunderstand me. I know how fragile cracks are. Jul 09 02:38:55 * bhima mis-typed. Jul 09 02:39:10 I meant to write, in the USA there have been some nice decisions. Jul 09 02:39:24 sony v. connectix, the lexmark DMCA case. Jul 09 02:39:30 Im hoping there is a case hacking community for the openmoko Jul 09 02:39:48 Im going to make my own case out back in the lab when i get mine Jul 09 02:39:58 bhima could be,, but still you need some war money before leaning so much out of the window in the us. Jul 09 02:40:22 roh: At least we have jurisdictional consolidation rules :P Jul 09 02:40:36 linux_galore if there is someone with a 3d cnc mill and a lot of time and money.... Jul 09 02:40:47 roh - can you release any figures, like how many units you're trying to sell? Jul 09 02:40:48 give it a few months for the Chinese to start making alternate cases for the openmoko Jul 09 02:40:57 or even cloning the thing Jul 09 02:41:05 the psp firmware war is amusing Jul 09 02:41:15 sony in their infinite stupidity didn't use an mmu ;) Jul 09 02:41:27 bhima hehe.. i still will not enter the us, uk or some other contries which have similar policies.. same with .au, sadly Jul 09 02:41:42 They didn't use an mmu to be cheaper. Jul 09 02:41:52 lookup the "tphone" its a iphone clone, it was released before apple even released the original item Jul 09 02:42:09 obscurite sorry, no.. i only know how many tickets there are, but not how many pieces per ticket there are without opening them one by one Jul 09 02:42:22 In Germany, somebody can sue you in multiple jurisdictions, and keep the lawsuits going. You can't really force them to merge them into a single suit. Every country has its problems. Jul 09 02:42:33 Why do you need an mmu on something with no multi-tasking and no need for virtual memory? Jul 09 02:42:41 linux_galore will not happen so soon. chinese manufs have only a interest in stuff with _huge_ piececounts Jul 09 02:42:51 roh - will hundreds of people have the neo? thousands? trying to figure out how big the potential community is? Jul 09 02:43:17 its sucks that they didnt put an mmu in it, if they did there would be a much larger community around it because you would be able to run linux Jul 09 02:43:35 hmm openmoko could also sell "alternate case themes" for the users openmoko Jul 09 02:43:46 ExxonValdeez: Yeah, but Sony has made it clear that they want to actively discourage that. Jul 09 02:43:52 iPhone clones as a concept amuse me. If you haven't tried an iPhone, you won't be able to actually properly clone it. Jul 09 02:43:54 phone* Jul 09 02:43:59 obscurite as sean already said in the mails.. we now have about 400 + 600 or so till we restart the factory Jul 09 02:44:13 roh - thanks Jul 09 02:44:34 bhima: bet there is some chinese engineers pulling one apart as we sit here Jul 09 02:44:41 obscurite if we really run out of devices fast we can build more. just takes a bit of lead time but not as much as the inital runs took Jul 09 02:44:50 theres nothing innovative hardware wise about the iphone Jul 09 02:45:01 except maybe the display, which if they wanted to clone they'd just look up patents Jul 09 02:45:09 anrp, except the multitouch screen Jul 09 02:45:11 The display is pretty innovative Jul 09 02:45:14 linux_galore: heh. Of course. And that will help them clone the iPhone as well as disecting Da Vinci will help you clone him. Jul 09 02:45:25 galexande: multitouch screens are not actually new Jul 09 02:45:48 sure, but, i've never seen one Jul 09 02:45:50 bhima: 'cept you can read an iPhone's memory, but you can't read Da Vinci's brain. :) Jul 09 02:45:57 You've really go to spend some time with an iPhone in your hands to figure out how innovative and interesting it is. Jul 09 02:46:10 galexande: I saw a multi touch sample in the lab about 3 years ago Jul 09 02:46:15 Anyway, using one and doing it black-box is probably a better approach for them Jul 09 02:46:26 galore, see, they're bringing things from the lab to the marketplace. Jul 09 02:46:33 that's more innovative than not doing that Jul 09 02:46:34 bhima the devil is in the detail.. also apple will need a few updates to get it right Jul 09 02:46:37 doesn't really matter wrt patents :/ if its the same implementation, apple will sue Jul 09 02:46:51 Aside from multi-touch the other really new thing is adaptive UI. The boundaries of buttons actually dynamically grow or shrink appropriately given the context of your input. Jul 09 02:46:56 like, there's nothing really innovative about the neo's hardware, but i'm still crazy about it Jul 09 02:47:06 If you look at the basic goals of the device, the iPhone tries to do the same thing that many other phones have tried for many years. Jul 09 02:47:11 And apparently, the UI can learn your preferences passively. Jul 09 02:47:20 bhima but i must say i have deep respect for the userinterface they chose. the whole haptic stuff with slider and so. they dont use multitouch really, but hey.. thats for later ;) Jul 09 02:47:51 people should not see that as a war or fight. they do their thing, we do ours. Jul 09 02:48:05 does anyone here have an iphone? Jul 09 02:48:14 Apple is definitely very good at UI Jul 09 02:48:24 roh: I don't know how much multi-touch they can _really_ do, but they definitely are beyond what some people speculated, which was "size and center of all appendages onthe screen" Jul 09 02:48:28 And in fact, I like Apple a lot in general, since they switched to OSX Jul 09 02:48:32 ExxonValdeez: I do. Jul 09 02:48:58 did you buy it on launch day? Jul 09 02:48:58 bhima what counts more is real-world usability. Jul 09 02:49:01 I just really dislike how closed (and exploitative, if you look at the AT&T end of things) the iPhone is Jul 09 02:49:06 yeah Jul 09 02:49:10 All the comparisons aren't really that interesting, just be happy that you can have an OSS phone, that's the cool bit. Jul 09 02:49:15 roh: For example, I can scroll the way you could twist a wheel, one finger pushing, then touch the bottom with a second finger, then remove first, slide, etc. Jul 09 02:49:24 * bhima agrees with hads. Jul 09 02:49:25 bhima thats why multitouch is overrated. who wants to have 2 hands on his phone or spread fingers to do stuff? Jul 09 02:49:35 However, it's a lot easier to clone Apple's UI genius by cloning an iPhone than it is to be as smart as their engineers and do it in the first place ;) Jul 09 02:49:51 yeah, multitouch has limited usefulness on a phone. A desktop is another story. Jul 09 02:50:01 I think you can get 80% of the iPhone without multi-touch. Jul 09 02:50:02 bhima: do you plan on getting a neo? Jul 09 02:50:02 arachnid: OSX is both good and also a failing 1. they are restricted by the failing of a micro kernel architecture, people are starting to get bored with the same theme after 6 years Jul 09 02:50:04 Easily. Jul 09 02:50:17 ExxonValdeez: With wifi, yes. If I had a spare SIM, probably sooner. :) Jul 09 02:50:25 I haven't seen any significant issues with OSX Jul 09 02:50:33 I have a old-arsed Nokia candybar. I intend to order a Neo this week. Jul 09 02:50:39 failings* Jul 09 02:50:43 but.. shiny! and blue! Jul 09 02:50:47 And... getting sick of the same theme? Anyone that chooses their OS based on the theme probably isn't a very valuable customer anyway. Jul 09 02:50:48 and .. yeah, thats how its been for a while Jul 09 02:50:51 bhima not that i wouldnt like the hw-feature, but i are not really sad about it. 3g, a solid case and a long living battery are much more important than multitouch or soft sliding animations Jul 09 02:51:05 I'd choose OSX Expose over XP or Vista any day, all else being equal. Jul 09 02:51:22 arachnid: you haven't used compiz :) Jul 09 02:51:23 and i think most of our customers agree with me on that when talking about where we want to go Jul 09 02:51:28 i'd choose multi desktops ;/ Jul 09 02:51:35 roh: From what I've heard, both might be doable, if multitouch really is a driver issue. :) Jul 09 02:51:37 I can't remember, is 3g on the neo roadmap? Jul 09 02:51:41 expose is neat but it only really works when you can visually identify windows Jul 09 02:51:44 roh: The iphone's scase is very very solid. Jul 09 02:51:47 arachnid: yes, obviously you have not used compiz Jul 09 02:51:48 so for a large number of terminals it doesn't help Jul 09 02:51:51 Apple will soon have to have it own hybrid kernel same as Microsoft/Apple because sticking to a pure BSD kernel will cause some nasty restrictions Jul 09 02:52:05 arachnid no its a hw-feature and even apple has only pseudo-multitouch Jul 09 02:52:06 grr Jul 09 02:52:17 bhima: yeah, i wish it had wifi, i understand why it didnt make it into the dev model Jul 09 02:52:24 linux_galore: ... they don't have a "pure BSD kernel". Jul 09 02:52:30 What's required in the hardware to support multitouch? Jul 09 02:52:39 They have a BSD emulation layer on top of Mach. Jul 09 02:52:51 orospakr: its not a hybrid either Jul 09 02:52:54 arachnid they cannot detect 4 points where 3 are aligned to one axis of the screen and one is on the 90 degree line to one of the other 3 Jul 09 02:52:55 arachnid, multitouch is like touchpads, a capacitive sensor... usually touch screens are two thin layers of plastic or glass which actually bend to touch eachother Jul 09 02:52:59 ExxonValdeez / Swkid: What does a linux window manager have to d owith my preference between windows and OSX? Jul 09 02:53:14 Solaris/Microsoft have shifted to a hybrid kernel Jul 09 02:53:16 i have no idea, i wasnt really following the conversation Jul 09 02:53:23 roh: Sure - like ghosting in keyboards - it's a scan matrix Jul 09 02:53:30 But two touches is enough for most stuff Jul 09 02:53:33 arachnid: i was just making a comment Jul 09 02:53:48 linux_galore: what distro? Jul 09 02:53:50 they gave up being able to use a stylus for that Jul 09 02:53:56 i am not convinced it was worth it Jul 09 02:53:59 Perfect is enemy of good enough, the scan-matrix model for multi-touch is fine for a phone, I'd argue. Jul 09 02:54:07 ExxonValdeez: ?? Jul 09 02:54:11 arachnid yes. real multitouch is usually a IR-flooded glass with a beamer as display beyond and a camera capturing the leaking ir where you touch it Jul 09 02:54:17 galexande: Have you used an iPhone...? Jul 09 02:54:33 roh: frustrated total internal reflection. or something. Jul 09 02:54:35 arachnid completely independant from scanlines and the number of simultaniously touches Jul 09 02:54:35 bhima, no Jul 09 02:54:39 roh: hm, okay. I read on the list somewhere that the manufacturer of your touch screen had said it might be possible with new drivers Jul 09 02:54:50 galexande: Try one before questioning the trade off. It's really much snazzier than you would expect. Jul 09 02:54:51 Here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000576.html Jul 09 02:54:58 linux_galore: i was just interested in what distro you run Jul 09 02:55:04 bhima, i'm a strict functionalist, and it seems like a poor tradeoff. Jul 09 02:55:05 anyway openmoko will be an interesting experiment Jul 09 02:55:12 roh: But it's a case of diminishing returns - two-touch is more useful than one touch, but 3 isn't that much more useful, and so on Jul 09 02:55:27 ExxonValdeez: varies, right now Im using ubuntu gutsy and fedora 7 Jul 09 02:55:43 galexande: So, 5 functions are better than 3, you mean? Jul 09 02:55:53 http://www.openmoko.com/uploaded_images/28.png <-- I'm really not satisfied by the on screen keyboard. I think the buttons should be quadrilaterals and the keyboard should actually fill the bottom part of the display, not be round tiny things with large gaps in between. Jul 09 02:56:02 arachnid we will see. Jul 09 02:56:11 I want to actually use the Neo for texting. :) Jul 09 02:56:21 orospakr forget that keyboard Jul 09 02:56:32 orospakr: The joy of an OSS project... It can be fixed. :) Jul 09 02:56:33 roh: I figured it was going to change. :) Jul 09 02:56:35 Yes! Jul 09 02:56:38 linux_galore: yeah, gusty looks nice, tried to get it installed on my laptop but the installer froze, fedora 7 is pretty neat to but unfortunately it doesnt have non-free wifi drivers in it Jul 09 02:56:40 If it doesn't support infinite points on a hyperdimensional matrix, it's worthless! C'mon, set a goal that's achievable both technologically and resource-wise. Jul 09 02:56:45 If no one does it, I might make the patch myself if I can find the time. :P Jul 09 02:56:50 bhima, i think that the ability to indicate a precise point using a fingernail or stylus is more valuable than the ability to indicate two points with less precision Jul 09 02:57:00 ExxonValdeez: it does but you have to add them Jul 09 02:57:16 yes, i know Jul 09 02:57:24 orospakr that keyboard has neither esc not tab and is thus not acceptable at all ;) Jul 09 02:57:26 bhima, of course, i also want my phone to run rxvt :) Jul 09 02:57:28 Has anyone seen the onscreen keyboard method that puts two letters on each key and uses dictionary logic to figure out what the right word is? Jul 09 02:57:28 Chairboy: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 09 02:57:35 roh: definitely. Jul 09 02:57:39 galexande: I think that the ability to navigate the UI and interact with apps is the goal... Jul 09 02:57:45 ExxonValdeez: try Gutsy Tribe 2 Jul 09 02:58:02 bhima, sure, but i like to be able to interact with text-mode apps, and i like things like using the matchbox panel to change tasks Jul 09 02:58:08 ExxonValdeez: it was recently released Jul 09 02:58:20 linux_galore: but that means i have to connect it via Ethernet and that is inconvenient, i have tried tribe 2, the installer froze up Jul 09 02:58:29 galexande: Right. You need the correct UI for the hardware and form factor. Jul 09 02:58:51 ExxonValdeez: I have pure intel machines so hardware issues are a now brainer Jul 09 02:58:56 no* Jul 09 02:59:14 ExxonValdeez: ie I have none Jul 09 02:59:42 bhima, if you saw how i used my ibook you'd understand :) Jul 09 02:59:44 galexande: I prefer my bluetooth folding keyboard. :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 09 02:59:59 2007