**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 19 02:59:58 2007 Jul 19 03:00:12 your number dials into their server, just like dial-up internet Jul 19 03:00:29 so then it should work for unlocked phones too? Jul 19 03:00:41 there server has caller i.d. so if it recognizes your number it gives you internet Jul 19 03:00:49 if not, no internet for you Jul 19 03:00:57 that's good then Jul 19 03:01:11 yes, you just need to input the correct settings Jul 19 03:01:55 i might stick to wifi though since provider internet is extremely expensive right now. Jul 19 03:02:15 same here Jul 19 03:02:21 yeah, i misread the question at first Jul 19 03:02:23 :) Jul 19 03:02:26 im going to try and get a little wifi dongle working Jul 19 03:03:14 but i don't live in the city where wifi is everywhere so that's why i'm considering getting provider. Jul 19 03:06:02 matthew: are you talking about using the phone as a modem for your computers at home? Jul 19 03:15:29 pixelstick: no, no. just using the internet on the phone. Jul 19 03:15:51 pixelstick: checking stock quotes at work, etc. Jul 19 03:39:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arizona]] Jul 19 03:44:56 * * OM Bug 642 has been created by jp.lemieux(AT)teksavvy.com Jul 19 03:44:57 * * The cgi script for ordering the neo1973 never gets to step 2 Jul 19 03:44:58 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=642 Jul 19 03:51:38 any comments on http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html ? :) Jul 19 03:53:20 old news, but... Jul 19 03:54:04 here's hoping the software and/or power management unit keeps the mic turned off until you hit Jul 19 03:54:55 possibly have an applet that watches for such requests to come in over the air and pops up a dialog Jul 19 03:55:12 "hey there, the FBI just tried to turn on the microphone." Jul 19 03:57:00 ckuethe: I think it's a software only thing Jul 19 03:57:09 the providers need to activate it Jul 19 03:57:14 true Jul 19 03:57:32 but in the openmoko case, we have a closed gsm module in a tin can Jul 19 03:57:43 and an open audio chip on the board Jul 19 03:57:56 and the audio chip is under the control of ... us Jul 19 03:57:56 true Jul 19 03:59:13 oh, i know! have a little loop of rage against the machine that plays into the gsm module if the audio input line goes active without being requested by the dialler app ... "f*ck you i won't do what you tell me!" Jul 19 03:59:42 hehe Jul 19 04:00:10 or maybe the barney song? Jul 19 04:00:37 would we be able to tell if the audio line goes active? Jul 19 04:00:42 personally, i'd prefer to just ATH / ATZ ... Jul 19 04:00:56 maybe Jul 19 04:01:52 i guess gsmd could/should inform the power management unit to toggle the mic appropriately at call setup/termination Jul 19 04:04:02 wouldn't it be better just to not route the audio into the GSM? Jul 19 04:04:26 i dunno, if you want to use it as a dictaphone or have speech commands or something Jul 19 04:04:46 so, who else go the delivery email Jul 19 04:11:25 ferric: i didnt :( whats your orderid? Jul 19 04:12:05 ferric: did anyone else? or is it still only Jason1? Jul 19 04:12:47 ckuethe, thats frickin cool :) Jul 19 04:12:58 I've only heard from J1. Jul 19 04:13:03 my order #is 2713 Jul 19 04:13:10 i'm faar. Jul 19 04:13:31 you like my messing with remote bugs idea? Jul 19 04:13:53 i wonder if the pin-out of calypso is NDA Jul 19 04:14:51 yes! Jul 19 04:14:56 audio is I2C Jul 19 04:16:35 sublime didn't report getting a Payment Processed e-mail. He's 1843, according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 19 04:17:10 uh oh! Jul 19 04:17:12 I'm not on the list. Jul 19 04:17:52 I haven't had one yet either Jul 19 04:18:00 orospakr, what list? Jul 19 04:18:08 P1 Owners. Jul 19 04:18:26 I'm #3255. I haven't received a payment processed mail either, for that matter. Jul 19 04:18:30 I'm 1846 Jul 19 04:18:30 orospakr, it's a wiki, just add yourself if you want to be there :P Jul 19 04:18:51 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/WM8753/ Jul 19 04:18:52 jeddy3: heh, OK. I got the impression that that list had been updated by the FIC guys. :) Jul 19 04:19:01 :) Jul 19 04:19:50 heh, obviously not, now that I have read it more closely. :) Jul 19 04:20:19 hmmm, <26 tickets per day...this could take a while :) Jul 19 04:21:05 off for work Jul 19 04:22:17 Arachnid: you've not received stuff as well? Jul 19 04:22:24 so it does have a control interface... seems like analog and digital sound representations can be routed arbitrarily Jul 19 04:23:08 now we just need a way to be sure the mic is disabled Jul 19 04:23:20 ferric: Nope Jul 19 04:23:26 I got the YES_I_DO email Jul 19 04:23:36 But no payment processed email Jul 19 04:23:58 k Jul 19 04:24:21 i hope they haven't run into another snag. Jul 19 04:24:43 beyond having to manually print 1000 shipping labels and stuff 1000 shipping boxes? Jul 19 04:26:38 well, that doesn't explain sending one confirmation email out and stopping. Jul 19 04:27:37 I feel y'alls impatience :-) Jul 19 04:30:55 hmm Jul 19 04:31:18 Im thinking about the lack of UMTS... but it should be possible to buy a GTA02 and then use a UMTS/HSDPA USB-modem, no? ;) Jul 19 04:31:32 then I have my beloved HSDPA/WLAN combo dream phone... heh Jul 19 04:31:43 well, modulo software ;) Jul 19 04:32:31 well, also modulo USB-power I guess Jul 19 04:53:45 no confirm yet :) Jul 19 04:53:49 but that's ok Jul 19 05:04:17 * CM cheers for "[rt.internal.openmoko.org #1821] Payment received: OpenMoko direct order" Jul 19 05:06:20 cm: congrats! Jul 19 05:06:33 Thanks :) Jul 19 05:06:54 Just hoping it gets here quickly... Since I'll be off for vacation son Jul 19 05:08:10 yeah... i'm hoping mine either gets shipped in the next week or in a month, cause i'll be on vacation too Jul 19 05:13:35 Nice that the shipping was only 37USD instead of 81 like it said in the shop Jul 19 05:14:30 quite a plus Jul 19 05:17:04 CM: awesome! when did you get the email? Jul 19 05:17:37 CM, :)) Jul 19 05:24:09 must be interesting for the FIC america office to start developing new processes for getting phones directly to customers Jul 19 05:31:42 CM : What order number where you again ? Jul 19 05:34:56 CM: hehe, nevermind, early number .. I'm like a little bit later :) Jul 19 05:36:27 welp. mine hasn't been shipped yet. sigh. Jul 19 05:36:43 ferric : your number ? Jul 19 05:37:40 2713 Jul 19 05:39:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arizona]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User_talk:Nod_huang]] Jul 19 05:39:30 wonder how many phones have been ordered by tickets 1820 - 2819 Jul 19 05:40:54 I only know that around 250 out of the 350 first tickets were real order Jul 19 05:40:59 s Jul 19 05:41:10 My order number is 1848 and I have still not received an "Payment received" number, then again 1821 seem to be one of the first numbers .. hehe Jul 19 05:41:23 that would be 714 out of 1000 Jul 19 05:41:38 CM : When did you receive the e-mail? Jul 19 05:41:42 sannes, actually, that is the second number :) Jul 19 05:42:26 sannes: 5h ago Jul 19 05:42:37 sannes: 1820 was the first one Jul 19 05:43:11 * Aria grumbles about as taking 1790m VSS while compiling a kernel for the neo Jul 19 05:43:31 xkr47: At worst. I guess they got more and more tickets that were not orders, since all mails without a proper tickt number gets a new one assigned Jul 19 05:43:54 mm Jul 19 05:45:05 I don't see any movement from my bank account, hmm .. Jul 19 05:45:08 * sannes worries Jul 19 05:52:57 sannes: what # are you? Jul 19 05:53:01 oh 1848. Jul 19 05:53:02 hm Jul 19 06:19:44 CM : Did you order basic or advanced? Jul 19 06:20:04 sannes: Basic Jul 19 06:20:09 aaaaaa/win 23 Jul 19 06:20:37 Rince: That's a lot of windows :) Jul 19 06:21:05 not really, since I have roundabout 65 running right now.. Jul 19 06:21:06 ;) Jul 19 06:21:31 Ouch.. I try to keep it under 10 so I can use alt+ Jul 19 06:22:50 CM, /win 80 ;-) Jul 19 06:23:06 CM, I have alt-keys for all 80 windows :-) Jul 19 06:23:18 Hehe Jul 19 06:23:29 alt-1..0, q..p, a..ö, z..- and then alt-shift- the same Jul 19 06:23:58 http://xkr47.outerspace.dyndns.org/tmp/irssi-79-windows Jul 19 06:31:12 CM: email ? Jul 19 06:31:25 ScaredyCat: Yes, about 6h ago :) Jul 19 06:31:59 :( Jul 19 06:32:02 nothing here Jul 19 06:32:12 Nice that the shipping was 44 USD cheaper than the online store said Jul 19 06:32:58 you have tracking too ? Jul 19 06:33:17 Not yet Jul 19 06:33:32 I'm hoping for cheaper shipping aswell, $127 is a bit steep... hehe :P Jul 19 06:33:44 sannes: Ouch. Where are you at? Jul 19 06:34:05 CM : Norway, (advanced kit) Jul 19 06:34:23 Ah, ok. :) Jul 19 06:34:36 sannes: Planning on doing u-boot stuff or so? Jul 19 06:34:52 Or just liking the case? :P Jul 19 06:35:01 CM : yes, among other things :) Jul 19 06:35:15 I guess they got tired after packing 2 boxes ;) Jul 19 06:35:21 hehehe Jul 19 06:35:55 ScaredyCat: Hehe, yeah, Jouston Huang shouldn't tire himself.. Jul 19 06:35:59 CM: I liked the casing aswell :) Jul 19 06:36:08 * CM hides hoping Jouston isn't on the channel ;) Jul 19 06:37:27 * ScaredyCat whips Jouston Huang Jul 19 06:37:31 back to work slacker Jul 19 06:37:36 :D Jul 19 06:37:44 Hehe Jul 19 06:44:29 the rate at which they're processing seems...errrm.... not good... Jul 19 06:45:34 it seems like they could just barely handle the 100k phones per month fic is capable of ;-) Jul 19 06:46:08 but it's understandable that it's completely new stuff for them and requires setting up new processes etc Jul 19 06:46:59 fic has been a subcontractor before or? Jul 19 06:47:41 Yeah. Jul 19 06:47:44 Nokia at least Jul 19 06:50:39 xkr47: sure, but they should have started the process earlier.. Jul 19 06:50:56 and not made the dev guys do it Jul 19 06:51:11 I need coffee... Jul 19 06:51:31 Yeah, poor LaF0rge Jul 19 06:51:36 a lot of "should"s.. but they're doing their best, and I'm happy with whatever that is :) Jul 19 06:51:37 No kidding Jul 19 06:52:04 CM: he's just a pussy ;) Jul 19 06:52:17 ScaredyCat: Hehe :P Jul 19 06:52:19 * xkr47 kicks ScaredyCat :( Jul 19 06:52:44 mokobot: attack xkr47 Jul 19 06:52:53 useless bot Jul 19 06:53:14 it's another "should" :) Jul 19 06:54:00 tbh I feel for him, If I didn't know any better I'd suspect he was working with the same people I did o my last but 1 project.. Jul 19 06:55:38 I still feel bad about htat one, so much so that I drive an extra 30 km just so I don't go near the place again... Jul 19 06:56:13 sounds like some nuclear fallout zone Jul 19 06:56:19 :P Jul 19 06:57:36 well, didn't help that the owner turned out to be a crook... Jul 19 06:57:47 but then it was telecoms, so that's normal Jul 19 06:58:36 * ScaredyCat hangs head in shame over failed project Jul 19 06:59:23 ScaredyCat: http://www.scottberkun.com/blog/2007/asshole-driven-development/ Jul 19 07:00:39 looks about right.... Jul 19 07:01:07 but I worked 20 houes days for 4 years... Jul 19 07:01:15 that's why I get to call him a pussy Jul 19 07:01:46 They better pay well for those hours Jul 19 07:02:01 no, not really Jul 19 07:02:32 but the entire team tried to make everything work, in spite of management fucking it up all the time Jul 19 07:02:57 ok Jul 19 07:03:16 seriously, they missed the manufacturing slot so went and brought a product we hadn't even tested Jul 19 07:04:04 then we had to build stuff for that, even though the hardware didn't actually arrive until 1 day before deployment.. Jul 19 07:04:08 ouch Jul 19 07:04:24 that was when we discovered buts in the hardware.... Jul 19 07:04:35 bugs Jul 19 07:04:52 it just went on and on.... Jul 19 07:05:22 so are there any known hardware issues with gta01v4? Jul 19 07:05:39 I have no recollection of that at this time Jul 19 07:06:24 i like to collect gadgets with hw issues Jul 19 07:06:38 ynezz: What's wrong with you? :P Jul 19 07:07:00 there's a difference... collecting them could be fun... Jul 19 07:07:05 relying on them isn't Jul 19 07:07:45 * ScaredyCat sits in the corner rocking backwards and forwards Jul 19 07:07:47 who would rely on neo? :) Jul 19 07:08:05 users ;) Jul 19 07:08:43 but thats by end of the year... Jul 19 07:08:53 which year ? ;) Jul 19 07:09:00 that's a question :) Jul 19 07:09:26 at the rate of 2 a day.... Jul 19 07:12:06 morning Jul 19 07:23:23 CM, you got your confirmation? Jul 19 07:23:54 jeddy3: Yes Jul 19 07:24:10 nice Jul 19 07:25:16 anyone with a little higher number? :) Jul 19 07:28:17 http://flickr.com/photos/stillframe/tags/itrapped/show/ Jul 19 07:29:32 Hiya. Anyone know what's up with the bug in the cursor movement rendering in gtkterm? Jul 19 07:31:44 ScaredyCat: How long did the bot last? Jul 19 07:31:54 just dies Jul 19 07:31:58 just died Jul 19 07:32:10 [2007-07-19 08:28:03] <-- mokobot has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). Jul 19 07:32:32 [2007-07-19 08:31:45] just died Jul 19 07:32:37 Ah, I woke up at a luck time then. Jul 19 07:33:04 Last info in bot log: [ 2958] at the rate of 2 a day.... Jul 19 07:33:28 [2007-07-19 08:09:12] at the rate of 2 a day.... Jul 19 07:33:51 there was other activity after that... I guess it missed it Jul 19 07:34:17 22mins and 53seconds ago, f#$£ing internet connection. Jul 19 07:34:34 ScaredyCat: Not acording to the bot. Jul 19 07:38:36 there was lots... we were saying that we all got our neo's Jul 19 07:39:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] Jul 19 07:48:47 ScaredyCat: You know how onjoin works in the bot? Jul 19 07:49:41 ScaredyCat: it was amazing, everybody got twice what they ordered! Jul 19 07:50:27 ??? Jul 19 07:50:46 They sent out 2 of each to each address? Jul 19 07:51:33 sorry, that may have been a failed attempt at humour on my part. Jul 19 07:51:49 Ah. Jul 19 07:55:30 hi all Jul 19 07:55:45 Hi Jul 19 07:55:58 as I see in the topic, openmoko device is not already shipped from EU, isnt it? Jul 19 07:56:43 Zenton: No, only shipping from FIC offices california. Jul 19 07:56:54 thanks ewanm89_laptop. Jul 19 07:57:15 hi Jul 19 07:57:15 * ewanm89_laptop still can't order one :( Jul 19 07:57:20 Hi Jul 19 07:57:28 hey ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 08:19:40 Hi, I am following the MokoMakefile wiki instructions located at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile. I am getting stuck at the "make openmoko-devel-image" step. I get the error shown at http://pastebin.com/m11caaea6. Any suggestions on how to solve this problem? Is there some .spec file to edit for the cross-compiler? I'm running Ubuntu Feisty 7.04 / amd64. Thanks in advance. Jul 19 08:26:19 look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile Jul 19 08:26:34 it has something about that -Qy issue Jul 19 09:02:46 g'morning Jul 19 09:06:19 Morning. Jul 19 09:07:01 ScaredyCat: thanks for the link. Looks like I get past the error if I do PATH="/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin" make openmoko-devel-image. Jul 19 09:09:06 ScaredyCat: You've got botmail. Jul 19 09:10:16 I've got bigger problems mokobot .. all my list mail ist getting forwarded to my mobile... Jul 19 09:10:19 :/ Jul 19 09:10:53 ScaredyCat: So your bill just skyrocketed. Jul 19 09:11:14 whooosh.... Jul 19 09:12:46 ScaredyCat: botmail would be good if the person got a msg to say they got some. Jul 19 09:13:01 hi Jul 19 09:13:07 Hit Jul 19 09:13:08 did you send it then Jul 19 09:13:10 s/t// Jul 19 09:13:11 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hi Jul 19 09:13:11 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hi Jul 19 09:13:14 rather than the bot Jul 19 09:13:25 hi there. Jul 19 09:13:50 cool, i will get one while in the States Jul 19 09:14:05 ScaredyCat: My master is authorised enough to make me talk. Jul 19 09:14:33 I hope that they will not be sold out the time I will get there. Jul 19 09:15:03 http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000227.html Jul 19 09:16:59 dead Jul 19 09:17:32 ScaredyCat what? Jul 19 09:17:43 that link.. Jul 19 09:17:45 dead Jul 19 09:17:46 no Jul 19 09:17:53 It's not here. Jul 19 09:17:53 Yes. It is an exciting news for me. Jul 19 09:17:54 Finally we are going to send Neo 1973 out by UPS, one by one. Jul 19 09:17:54 Want more good news? Yes, all of you can take advantage from the shipping rate. No matter where you live, when you place your order or you are pretty or not, all of you, our best partner and customers. Jul 19 09:17:54 You are worry your order keep too long? OK. We are really sorry for our slow progress but we will do our best to process your order. Jul 19 09:17:54 Stay tune, Neo 1973 is on the way to your desk. Jul 19 09:18:24 ta Jul 19 09:18:52 but they don;t appear to have actually sent any at all. Jul 19 09:20:03 it's not reassuring that it is on the way to the desk... A phone is supposed to be on your pocket or similar :) Jul 19 09:20:17 s/on/in Jul 19 09:20:26 bedboi ^^ Jul 19 09:21:18 well if you brick it, then the desk is the perfect place to store the device ;) Jul 19 09:21:48 * ScaredyCat leaves a brick on bedboi's desk... Jul 19 09:22:22 ! Jul 19 09:25:24 ewanm89_laptop: not only is it sending the mail to my mobile... I'm currently roaming... so it's about 10 milion euro per byte Jul 19 09:26:55 ScaredyCat: got a lot of brick on my desk Jul 19 09:27:14 (mainly in the form of books) Jul 19 09:27:16 ScaredyCat: Be careful, I think you'll find some places charge per bit :) Jul 19 09:27:20 I didn't mean that kind of brick... Jul 19 09:27:50 wibbit: yeah, go on cheer me up... Jul 19 09:29:24 ScaredyCat: i know, btw you should see what kind of books i have on my desk. They could easily considered bricks Jul 19 09:30:37 Fundamentals of spherical design methodologies utilizing partial theory ? Jul 19 09:32:58 ScaredyCat: lol Jul 19 09:33:36 ScaredyCat: what you need is something like imap so you only download the list. Jul 19 09:34:16 ScaredyCat: wait i tell you one: "Multiple-input describing function and nonlinear system design" Jul 19 09:34:20 wel, it was a special account I'd created, just to be notified when my neo was paid for last weekend Jul 19 09:34:36 turned out I didn't need it... Jul 19 09:34:53 but now my filter is messed up, and it's forwarding list mail :) Jul 19 09:35:30 sounds riveting bedboi - does it have pictures? Jul 19 09:35:44 AHAHAH Jul 19 09:35:57 ScaredyCat: yep, funny "pictures" of nonlinear describing functions Jul 19 09:36:04 you can call them pictures Jul 19 09:37:09 ScaredyCat: :) Jul 19 09:38:39 ScaredyCat: You forwarding all mail that has neo or openmoko in? Jul 19 09:38:50 no Jul 19 09:38:56 not any more :) Jul 19 09:39:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Finger_based_Ebook_Reader]] [[Talk:GPS_Navigation]] [[GPS_Navigation]] Jul 19 09:39:04 rt.openmoko... Jul 19 09:39:05 You were? Jul 19 09:39:15 oh. Jul 19 09:39:30 the list mail was going elsewhere... Jul 19 09:39:45 so it wasn;t an issue... until I broke it Jul 19 09:40:33 hehehe Jul 19 10:10:11 Is there a user-space-USB-host solution? I would like to write a driver for a non-supported chip - connected to an I2C bus. But I'd like to have all the normal USB stuff happen with it, for it to be recognised as a normal USB host. Can this be done? Or do I need a kernel driver. Jul 19 10:12:12 SpeedEvil: imho you need to write a kernel driver Jul 19 10:12:18 Sigh. Jul 19 10:12:26 Thought that might be the case. Jul 19 10:12:53 I've poked the maker asking about linux drivers, but with no response so far. Jul 19 10:12:59 And no great hope. Jul 19 10:13:16 SpeedEvil do you have a datasheet? Jul 19 10:13:33 maxim ... Jul 19 10:14:20 ? Jul 19 10:15:05 http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3639 Jul 19 10:17:32 Umm - SPI - not I2C. Jul 19 10:18:08 yep Jul 19 10:18:39 hmmm, i've always found maxim datasheets good in the past Jul 19 10:19:50 There is a difference between a good datasheet and a kernel driver though :) Jul 19 10:20:09 Especially if your only kernel hacking is spelling fixes. Jul 19 10:21:26 true, i've never done proper kernel hacking, just minimalist embedded stuff to talk usb, serial etc - PICs and the like Jul 19 10:28:13 SpeedEvil i would recommend waiting for the generic spi framework to be in place and then write a hcd kernel driver. Jul 19 10:28:40 since it can also be client it also could be a generic driver which can be switched to hcd or gadget Jul 19 10:29:02 meh! Jul 19 10:29:15 the generic spi framework is also needed for wireless in gta02, so it cannot take too long ;) Jul 19 10:31:47 Is the SPI bus exposed on the debug connector? - or rather - is there only one SPI bus? Jul 19 10:32:46 I assume there is at least one seperate one used for the SD card. Jul 19 10:33:15 SPI+ - or whatever the proper name is for the wide variant that SD cards use. Jul 19 10:38:50 SpeedEvil there is spi on the debug connector, yes. and also a irq-capable gpio ;) Jul 19 10:39:03 I mean - what's connected to that bus? Jul 19 10:39:21 Apart from obviously the CPU :) Jul 19 10:41:39 SpeedEvil nothing. its free Jul 19 10:41:57 Thanks! Jul 19 10:42:32 Current design for my stuff is to plug into the debug and bluetooth connectors. Jul 19 10:42:53 the i2c is shared with other devices. Jul 19 10:43:01 Flex-pcb is fun. Jul 19 10:43:29 roh: hi Jul 19 11:03:41 re Jul 19 11:40:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Template:Note/ar]] [[Translation]] [[User:%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%8605]] [[Main_Page/ar]] [[Talk:Preferences]] [[Template:Languages]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List]] Jul 19 12:24:12 * ScaredyCat tip toes around the channel Jul 19 12:24:46 greetings everyone Jul 19 12:24:52 I have a small build problem Jul 19 12:25:09 ERROR: No buildable providers available for required build target openmoko-devel-image Jul 19 12:25:15 could you give me a clue? Jul 19 12:25:16 squalyl: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 12:27:24 squalyl: Do you have bikbale installed? Jul 19 12:27:36 ewan he has Jul 19 12:28:05 ovewise he wouldnt have the ERROR messages Jul 19 12:28:18 yes it is Jul 19 12:28:31 I successfully built some days ago Jul 19 12:28:58 I had to get bitbake version 1.8 because 1.6 gave me a sanity check error Jul 19 12:29:47 hello all Jul 19 12:30:15 bye Jul 19 12:30:22 woglinde: It is an error message. Jul 19 12:30:48 ewan right an Messages that only bitbake can throw Jul 19 12:31:10 Um, that was next conclusion. Jul 19 12:32:12 squalyl: Can you pastebin more output than that, or is that all that is given? Jul 19 12:32:22 ok Jul 19 12:32:52 http://www.pastebin.ca/626123 Jul 19 12:34:51 I switched to bitbake 1.8 because I updated openembedded to the latest, and the sanity check blamed my 1.6.9 version Jul 19 12:35:49 I'M USING 1.8.6 HERE. Jul 19 12:36:04 Sorry about the caps. Jul 19 12:36:27 is there any noticeable changes in openembedded? I guess avoiding "mtn update" will help... Jul 19 12:36:51 Well I'm updating now. Jul 19 12:42:16 nokia touts AGPS now http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/07/19/nokia_launches_a-gps_service/ Jul 19 12:42:32 (mostly because their GPS seems to be terribly slow at getting a fix, anybody knows what chipset they use?) Jul 19 12:44:17 looks like some TI chip Jul 19 12:44:32 * SpeedEvil doesn't remember TI doing a GPS chip. Jul 19 12:44:55 http://www.n95users.com/forum/general-95/1090-gps-chipset.html Jul 19 12:44:55 It's probably quite a bad one then. Jul 19 12:45:58 Hmm. Jul 19 12:51:38 SpeedEvil: A friend's father, working for TI, was on the original design of GPS. Don't know if TI has GPS products. Jul 19 12:52:33 They may have products for DoD only Jul 19 12:54:58 DukeOfUrl: the URL posted earlier implied it did. Jul 19 12:55:13 They have the annoying 'split' policy. Jul 19 12:55:31 Whereby many interesting but hard to use chips are only available to qualified end-users. Jul 19 13:15:58 um... So what about bitbake ? ... Jul 19 13:24:05 OK so it works with the wiki's recommended monotone repository revision. Jul 19 13:26:16 (uh! what about this huge users list? all of them are openmoko developers?) Jul 19 13:26:35 users list? Jul 19 13:28:29 * Kero guesses IRC channel users list :) Jul 19 13:29:51 * ScaredyCat bleh's at Kero Jul 19 13:30:01 email yet Kero? Jul 19 13:31:14 any idea how many orders got confirmed Jul 19 13:31:44 as far as I know, only 1 Jul 19 13:31:56 confirmed? Jul 19 13:32:03 2 Jul 19 13:32:06 hmm..that jason freak =D Jul 19 13:32:15 oh, after the YES_I_DO or CANCEL email? Jul 19 13:32:15 yeah, who's the second one? Jul 19 13:32:16 CM also Jul 19 13:32:26 oh, lucky Jul 19 13:32:33 im about 20th on the list and nada so far Jul 19 13:32:38 juco: yeah, 2 people apparently had their cards charged Jul 19 13:32:44 no mail here Jul 19 13:32:52 25th on the list Jul 19 13:32:56 so by my estimation, by thursday next wek they should have got to mine.. Jul 19 13:33:12 is it ok that "Re" was prepended with regards to YES_I_DO mail? Jul 19 13:33:23 yes Jul 19 13:33:34 rt isn't that useless :) Jul 19 13:34:08 ScaredyCat, am more paranoid thats all...:P Jul 19 13:34:08 but they really should have ack'd both cancel and YID messages Jul 19 13:34:21 indeed Jul 19 13:34:26 * zedstar nods Jul 19 13:37:48 * aloril nods too Jul 19 13:38:10 ooh, 2 now, 1/day? ;-) Jul 19 13:38:39 neither appear to have shipped Jul 19 13:38:50 aloril, lol, then our order will get confirmed 2 1/2 years later Jul 19 13:38:56 * Kero wonders whether they tried different types of cards (Visa, Mastercard) Jul 19 13:39:09 great, after I did not get a first order confirmation, I ordered again, and am about 2000 orders later. Jul 19 13:39:31 alech: you'll get yours in 2020 then Jul 19 13:39:36 how many orders are there actually Jul 19 13:39:38 :-/ Jul 19 13:39:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Group_Order]] [[Main_Page/ar]] [[Template:Languages/ar]] Jul 19 13:39:48 around 1200 cheesy Jul 19 13:39:50 Kero: yeah, I guess they are testing Jul 19 13:40:03 that's good :) Jul 19 13:40:15 ScaredyCat: how do you know? Jul 19 13:40:15 mass market should be known thing for them, business <-> business for 20 years Jul 19 13:40:30 I scan irc logs alech :) Jul 19 13:40:32 i wonder if i wait for p1+ or however the HW update is called Jul 19 13:40:52 p2 Jul 19 13:40:54 :) Jul 19 13:40:54 for what? ;-) Jul 19 13:41:23 people like roh saying "about 1200" Jul 19 13:41:27 hi Jul 19 13:41:29 ;) Jul 19 13:42:15 someone did some clcs fo ht e wiki Jul 19 13:42:25 hmmm, but didn't RT tickets start around 1800? Jul 19 13:42:34 my order is 3706 Jul 19 13:42:45 which would mean 700 retracted ... Jul 19 13:42:48 yes, but rt is used for all their tickets Jul 19 13:42:52 not just orders Jul 19 13:42:52 ah, ok Jul 19 13:43:06 hmmm, not that they could/should use different queues for that Jul 19 13:43:31 counter Jul 19 13:43:31 (last update 2007-07-19 00:49) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 23:08:11 (0.964±1.0 days) (1758;248) Jul 19 13:43:36 don't get me started... Jul 19 13:43:53 hmm so is that rt tickets were generataed after ceratin number of orders or rt tickets were issues for all the orders ? Jul 19 13:44:33 no,, rt tickets for orders (even spam gets a ticket no) Jul 19 13:45:38 question: is there an expansion for rt? Jul 19 13:46:16 extension? Jul 19 13:46:40 http://bestpractical.com/rt Jul 19 13:46:56 boy, am i dumb Jul 19 13:47:31 i was about to ask, "what does rt mean with regards to request tracker thingy?" Jul 19 13:47:58 :) Jul 19 13:49:30 hola Jul 19 13:50:30 Hello Jul 19 13:51:27 re ewan Jul 19 13:52:11 They shipping 'em yet? Jul 19 13:52:26 yes Jul 19 13:52:37 I mean, has anyone gotten one yet? Jul 19 13:52:39 mokobot: jason1 Jul 19 13:52:42 * mokobot clubs Jason1 and steals his neo Jul 19 13:52:50 lol Jul 19 13:53:00 mokobot: Just remember to pass it on to me. Jul 19 13:53:15 the worse thing is his nick...appended 1 to piss me off =S Jul 19 13:53:28 Yes, master Jul 19 13:53:28 hm I didnt turned my moko for over 3 weeks on Jul 19 13:53:42 its getting a little bit dusty Jul 19 13:54:46 lol Jul 19 13:55:30 so are there libs for use with the Neo so that I could place calls and play audio to/record audio from the remote end? Jul 19 13:55:39 That are working, I mean. Jul 19 13:56:26 mokobot: software? is The answer to most software questions are no. Jul 19 13:56:26 okay, ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 13:56:35 mokobot: software? Jul 19 13:56:35 The answer to most software questions are no. Jul 19 13:57:28 Well, thats with full programs Jul 19 13:57:38 I'm just wondering if the libs to place and receive calls are in place Jul 19 14:00:03 dtx: If alsa can handle it? Jul 19 14:00:07 dtx: gsmd? Jul 19 14:00:21 no idea about the audio redirection, though Jul 19 14:00:46 dtx yes they are Jul 19 14:01:13 has anyone tried to display Flash multimedia content on their NEO? Jul 19 14:01:22 no Jul 19 14:01:29 audio redirection, afaik, goes through setting the mixer properly and playing/recording audio Jul 19 14:01:41 didnt compile gnuflash yet Jul 19 14:03:33 how about the web broswer version, is that even shipping with the developer version at this point? Jul 19 14:03:59 mokobot: software Jul 19 14:03:59 The answer to most software questions are no. Jul 19 14:04:03 I don't _think_ there is a browser. Jul 19 14:05:02 http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-04-software.html Jul 19 14:05:19 this map says there is one, but wouldn't surprise me if it isn't included yet Jul 19 14:05:41 * ScaredyCat prods ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 14:06:03 I'm trying to figure out if the phone could be utilized as a mobile learning device Jul 19 14:06:21 snatches, great idea Jul 19 14:07:07 well, we already specialize in flash content so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to mold something for a mobile device, if it supports Flash Jul 19 14:07:26 It doesn't. Jul 19 14:07:29 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 19 14:07:32 There is the GPL flash thing. Jul 19 14:07:39 wow we have a bot Jul 19 14:07:47 So what is the problem with the dialer? Recording and playback through SDL is simple, and if the libs support dialing and send/receive of audio where is the problem? Jul 19 14:07:47 !mokobot help Jul 19 14:07:50 oh crap, that's right Jul 19 14:07:52 ? Jul 19 14:07:54 But, basically not working for significant flash. Jul 19 14:08:22 well, technically SWF is an open format, but swish sucks Jul 19 14:09:17 so unless i can find someone who has a phone and attempts to install the Flash player, I have my answer Jul 19 14:09:45 *waiting for someone to take the bait* Jul 19 14:09:56 * ScaredyCat stares at the still water Jul 19 14:10:06 ScaredyCat: wtf have you just done with the bot. Jul 19 14:10:22 I'm training it to be my bitch Jul 19 14:10:36 ScaredyCat: Ok, just so I know. Jul 19 14:10:46 snatches, why don't you install gnash on your computer and try if your stuff works; if yes, it'll likely be able to run on Neo, modulo speed Jul 19 14:11:55 snatches hm I will try at weekend maybe Jul 19 14:11:56 e Jul 19 14:11:57 Hello master Jul 19 14:12:00 :x Jul 19 14:12:04 Nice Jul 19 14:13:25 ScaredyCat: But can only I activate it? Jul 19 14:13:32 nope... Jul 19 14:13:34 :) Jul 19 14:13:38 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 19 14:13:47 lol Jul 19 14:13:49 lol Jul 19 14:13:58 so bye for now Jul 19 14:14:02 bye Jul 19 14:14:16 Can you do it to someone elses nick? Jul 19 14:14:27 * galexande gets in line by mokobot Jul 19 14:15:18 galexande: eer! Jul 19 14:16:14 galexande: what's your order number Jul 19 14:16:55 1841 Jul 19 14:17:09 once they get the batch going i'll be rigth away Jul 19 14:17:15 galexande: /cycle Jul 19 14:17:21 ? Jul 19 14:17:27 type it Jul 19 14:17:35 *** Unknown command: CYCLE Jul 19 14:17:42 pfft Jul 19 14:17:44 /hop then Jul 19 14:17:58 you want to do so. Jul 19 14:18:09 knowing what he put in. Jul 19 14:18:24 uh? Jul 19 14:18:25 So who is going to be the first person to build a giant robot controlled by a Neo which still has more intelligence and character than any in the Transformers movie? Jul 19 14:18:32 part then join will work. Jul 19 14:18:41 ah! Jul 19 14:18:46 Come in #1841 your time is up Jul 19 14:18:58 * galexande grins at the bot Jul 19 14:19:14 mokobot, fetch water Jul 19 14:19:15 * ewanm89_laptop likes this bot. Jul 19 14:19:25 mokobot, dance Jul 19 14:19:42 you visit bash.org too much Jul 19 14:19:42 what can we do with this bot ? Jul 19 14:19:44 ;) Jul 19 14:19:55 either i am stupid, or this bot is smart Jul 19 14:20:00 both Jul 19 14:20:03 :P Jul 19 14:20:09 ScaredyCat: What do you want it to do? Jul 19 14:20:12 * Sup3rkiddo smacks ScaredyCat Jul 19 14:20:26 ewanm89_laptop: eh? Jul 19 14:20:34 s/ScaredyCat/Sup3rkiddo/ Jul 19 14:20:34 ewanm89_laptop meant: Sup3rkiddo: What do you want it to do? Jul 19 14:20:34 ewanm89_laptop meant: Sup3rkiddo: What do you want it to do? Jul 19 14:20:50 mokobot: Stop copying apt ;) Jul 19 14:20:52 I want it to give me a prcise time for my CC being charged and my neo shipping Jul 19 14:21:16 CM: Um, technically they are the same bot system. Jul 19 14:21:21 err ewanm89_laptop dont you think this question should be directed to me ? Jul 19 14:21:47 empty_mind: Yeah, you too. Jul 19 14:21:58 * ScaredyCat giggles Jul 19 14:22:01 ewanm89_laptop, answer trivia ? Jul 19 14:22:02 ScaredyCat: Get me access to FICs DB then. Jul 19 14:22:17 ewanm89_laptop: Sure, but shouldn't it be possible to turn off regexps? Jul 19 14:22:20 * ScaredyCat tickles LaF0rge Jul 19 14:22:28 CM: It is. Jul 19 14:22:31 didn't work Jul 19 14:22:37 does gnash run on windows? Jul 19 14:22:46 can mokobot takeover counter from aloril Jul 19 14:23:11 * empty_mind pours some wate on LaF0rge ; cool down young man Jul 19 14:23:12 should do, since aloril is about as accurate as a stick Jul 19 14:23:17 snatches: swfdec works better for me Jul 19 14:23:27 On 64 bit linux that is.. Jul 19 14:23:36 does it work properly Jul 19 14:23:46 empty_mind: It's built in counter can onl do it to the day, but I might be able to intergrate the script. Jul 19 14:24:06 maybe I should actually figure out what gnash is before I start asking questions :) Jul 19 14:24:15 :D Jul 19 14:24:21 ewanm89_laptop, oh integrating should be easy Jul 19 14:24:30 ewanm89_laptop, which bot package are you using ? Jul 19 14:24:39 blootbot Jul 19 14:24:40 !googlefight mickey|slides LaF0rge Jul 19 14:24:41 Google fights should be the format of 'random vs predictable' Jul 19 14:25:02 !googlefight lettuce CM Jul 19 14:25:02 Google fights should be the format of 'random vs predictable' Jul 19 14:25:12 useless bot Jul 19 14:25:14 ScaredyCat: Hehe Jul 19 14:25:25 !googlefigh luttuce vs CM Jul 19 14:25:31 !googlefight luttuce vs CM Jul 19 14:25:32 By results on Google: CM beats luttuce by 563,000,000 to 6,910! Jul 19 14:25:44 smart arse Jul 19 14:25:45 i think ScaredyCat first statement was correct Jul 19 14:25:55 !googlefight mickey|slides vs LaF0rge Jul 19 14:25:57 By results on Google: mickey|slides beats LaF0rge by 86,800,000 to 528! Jul 19 14:26:00 !googlefight mickey|slides LaF0rge is infact 'random vs predictable' Jul 19 14:26:01 ouch Jul 19 14:26:01 By results on Google: predictable' beats mickey|slides LaF0rge is infact 'random by 29,200,000 to 6! Jul 19 14:26:49 !googlefight iphone neo Jul 19 14:26:51 Google fights should be the format of 'random vs predictable' Jul 19 14:26:51 :) Jul 19 14:26:54 !googlefight iphone vs neo Jul 19 14:26:56 By results on Google: iphone beats neo by 134,000,000 to 83,800,000! Jul 19 14:27:11 yah, but neo aint even shipping. Jul 19 14:27:13 It can't Noooooooooooooooo! Jul 19 14:27:32 !googlefight iphone-wookie-lemon vs neo Jul 19 14:27:33 By results on Google: neo beats iphone-wookie-lemon by 83,800,000 to 0! Jul 19 14:27:38 :) Jul 19 14:27:38 ScaredyCat: btw neo is not neo1973 :) Jul 19 14:27:47 shh Jul 19 14:27:48 you cheated Jul 19 14:27:53 neo is also "the one" Jul 19 14:27:55 bedboi: Not to google. Jul 19 14:27:59 !googlefight iphone vs neo1973 Jul 19 14:27:59 aahah Jul 19 14:28:00 snatches: there is no ARM flash from macromedia. The open-source flash solutions will be pretty much the same as on any platform. Jul 19 14:28:00 By results on Google: iphone beats neo1973 by 134,000,000 to 1,050,000! Jul 19 14:28:25 !googlefight linux vs windows Jul 19 14:28:26 By results on Google: windows beats linux by 767,000,000 to 331,000,000! Jul 19 14:28:32 !googlefight greenphone vs neo1973 Jul 19 14:28:33 By results on Google: neo1973 beats greenphone by 1,050,000 to 354,000! Jul 19 14:28:33 bleh Jul 19 14:28:52 mokobot: seen any signs of Neo1973's shipping? Jul 19 14:28:52 i haven't seen 'any signs of neo1973's shipping', ScaredyCat Jul 19 14:28:57 !googlefight iphone vs openmoko Jul 19 14:28:58 By results on Google: iphone beats openmoko by 134,000,000 to 2,930,000! Jul 19 14:29:56 I'm coming back. (courtesy of ewanm89_laptop) Jul 19 14:30:29 Hy Jul 19 14:30:36 SpeedEvil: That's what I'm thinking, so at least there are a few options Jul 19 14:30:36 s/Hy/Hey/ Jul 19 14:30:37 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 14:30:38 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 14:30:55 !googlefight good vs bad Jul 19 14:30:56 By results on Google: good beats bad by 1,240,000,000 to 517,000,000! Jul 19 14:31:03 good always wins Jul 19 14:31:15 hello there Jul 19 14:31:30 * kiba is utterly excited about openmoko Jul 19 14:31:39 In any case, I'm sure our Flash engine will need be modified to work properly. Jul 19 14:31:44 I wish I can get my hand on it but it going to set me back 300 dollars :( Jul 19 14:31:46 kiba, hello moko Jul 19 14:31:49 !googlefight openmoko OR neo1973 OR neo-1973 vs iphone Jul 19 14:31:50 By results on Google: iphone beats openmoko OR neo1973 OR neo-1973 by 134,000,000 to 2,730,000! Jul 19 14:31:52 When I run OpenWoko on my PC, I get a distorted emulated phone. Some of the icons seems to be missing. I've followed the part on " Set your theme to OpenMoko" here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo. That didn't help. Jul 19 14:32:07 Any suggestions? Did I miss a step in the howto? Jul 19 14:32:11 * kiba wants to develop a location based video game Jul 19 14:32:31 Gorth2: Um, it sometimes does that. Jul 19 14:32:54 ewanm89_laptop, Is there a workaround/solution for this problem? Jul 19 14:32:57 Somehow, I am not really excited about iphone but I am excited about openmoko Jul 19 14:33:11 kiba: So you should be. Jul 19 14:33:26 Gorth2: Try to reflash the image? Jul 19 14:33:43 * Stephmw notices a few new names for the osjam... Jul 19 14:33:52 buying an openmoko in October is going to have to wait for me Jul 19 14:34:16 kiba: that's "October" Jul 19 14:34:32 ScaredyCat: I don't have a job Jul 19 14:34:49 while I do earn money, I already planned out what I am going to spend it on Jul 19 14:35:02 so no openmoko phone this year Jul 19 14:35:12 ewanm89_laptop, I can't seem to find any link on the Wiki about reflashing. Do you have a link? ;) Jul 19 14:35:14 kiba: unemployed, or <18? Jul 19 14:35:26 under 18 Jul 19 14:35:52 kiba: You aren't the only one, I have money but can't order a neo. Jul 19 14:36:07 ! Jul 19 14:36:07 * kiba doesn't earn enough money anyway Jul 19 14:36:12 I am only making cents Jul 19 14:36:20 and I never got a job, too unemployable Jul 19 14:36:45 well, it just depends on what you're prepared to do ... Jul 19 14:36:49 though I will get a new dell computer preinstalled with linux :D Jul 19 14:36:52 I need a toe cleaner Jul 19 14:37:02 ScaredyCat Jul 19 14:37:08 SpeedEvil: Jul 19 14:37:11 Maybe the stylus would suit. Jul 19 14:37:15 * kiba is an aspiring entrepreneur not a work slave Jul 19 14:37:17 ooo... Jul 19 14:37:24 there's an idea.. Jul 19 14:37:42 boost the laser to burn off dirt Jul 19 14:37:46 IMO. Jul 19 14:37:51 a location based video game... Jul 19 14:38:03 counter Jul 19 14:38:04 (last update 2007-07-19 00:49) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 22:40:55 (0.945±0.9 days) (1759;248) Jul 19 14:38:11 The right solution to pricing would be to keep the pricing at $300 - even for 02 hardware. Jul 19 14:38:16 Even if they make a modest loss. Jul 19 14:38:22 Until it's user-ready Jul 19 14:38:22 kiba: talking to a central server Jul 19 14:38:42 eh, I never written this kind of game Jul 19 14:38:54 proximity to other players Jul 19 14:39:06 'tag' them Jul 19 14:39:06 * aloril wonders which is more likely: shipping this week or next week? (less than 2 working days left) Jul 19 14:39:15 * SpeedEvil points at the topic. Jul 19 14:39:21 a game developer like me don't have nearly the experience to write and market such a massive physical multiplayer video game Jul 19 14:39:30 I think it's not impossible that one or two peoples may have shipped. Jul 19 14:40:02 It's not impossible that a phone or two will arrive tomorrow IMO. Jul 19 14:40:03 kiba, but you could lead the community effor to develop a "massive physical multiplayer video game" Jul 19 14:40:03 yea, Jason1 is having sex with his right now Jul 19 14:40:29 Kensan: I am a businessman Jul 19 14:40:33 sorta Jul 19 14:40:39 but I would like to profit from my work Jul 19 14:40:40 so.. Jul 19 14:40:49 Opensource != no profit. Jul 19 14:40:55 look at digg... it has bugger all value, but it's worth money Jul 19 14:40:58 You can sell games to run on OM. Jul 19 14:41:00 bs Jul 19 14:41:04 SpeedEvil: you don't know me Jul 19 14:41:08 You can sell access to a server, ... Jul 19 14:41:09 I am a Free software developer Jul 19 14:41:10 Kensan: You just need to learn opensource business models. Jul 19 14:41:14 kiba: well as a business man I imagine you have a business model. Jul 19 14:41:17 kiba: you don't know that I don't know you. Jul 19 14:41:21 open source or free software has nothing to do with money Jul 19 14:41:34 kiba: I could be right outside your window, with a laptop. Jul 19 14:41:43 community effort is not my kind of thing even though I write entirely Free softwares Jul 19 14:41:57 ewanm89_laptop: ? There's many very succesfull companies implementing such business models. Jul 19 14:42:00 the community will not like me if I make a living off their hard work Jul 19 14:42:10 Kensan: That was my point. Jul 19 14:42:13 kiba: Do it right, and they will - or many of them. Jul 19 14:42:16 though it is 100% legal Jul 19 14:42:19 kiba: why? Canonical is doing rather well don't you think? Jul 19 14:42:29 kiba: 99.9% of /'us' have no problem with what FIC is doing. Jul 19 14:42:30 And RedHat Jul 19 14:42:46 and Novell Jul 19 14:42:49 :-p Jul 19 14:42:50 kiba: Even though they are benefiting from potentially huge developer effort. Jul 19 14:43:01 The point is to lead the community in a way where it is mutually beneficial and not one exploiting the other. Jul 19 14:43:02 google Jul 19 14:43:16 02 hardware time left? Jul 19 14:43:21 and Microsoft Jul 19 14:43:22 empty_mind: No, novell is M$s pet. Jul 19 14:43:30 six: who knows. Jul 19 14:43:36 Kensan: the problem is how do you compensate the developer who work with you to develop video game Jul 19 14:43:44 The only people that don't like it when people make money off open source are the ones who don't actually know what open source is Jul 19 14:43:48 six: IMO, it could hit well before october, if it all falls right. Jul 19 14:43:51 SpeedEvil, thx ... and grml at waiting Jul 19 14:43:54 You can sell, take and use it, thats the point Jul 19 14:44:02 * kiba write only Free softwares Jul 19 14:44:04 Just don't violate the license Jul 19 14:44:11 hey, kiba, ... you should read: http://producingoss.com/ Jul 19 14:44:12 kiba: well that's where you as a business man come in. Enterpreneurs are the ones envisioning such models. Jul 19 14:44:29 I never written a propertiary game Jul 19 14:44:32 http://safari.oreilly.com/0596007590 , too Jul 19 14:44:36 (both the same book) Jul 19 14:44:39 you can develop free software and sell it. it's not a problem. Jul 19 14:44:48 kiba: It wouldn't be propietary. Jul 19 14:44:48 kiba: if you give back to the community in an appropriate way it will work. Jul 19 14:44:50 Free software means ~~ "source available" Jul 19 14:45:10 look at linux distro developers who sells CDs/DVDs Jul 19 14:45:10 squalyl: nessacery, but not sufficient. Jul 19 14:45:12 squalyl: more than that, it is about freedom Jul 19 14:45:14 kiba, specifically: http://producingoss.com/en/money.html Jul 19 14:45:22 squalyl: Some people have MS source. Jul 19 14:45:27 SpeedEvil > This was an abusive simplification ;) Jul 19 14:45:33 squalyl: don't mean they can build and sell it. Jul 19 14:45:40 I don't understand why open source is even an issue with game devs Jul 19 14:45:42 "freely available source" of you prefer :) Jul 19 14:45:46 Use open source engine sell content Jul 19 14:45:57 I make all my contents Free contents Jul 19 14:46:04 dtx: There is significant IP in some of the engines. Jul 19 14:46:05 * kiba make everything Free Jul 19 14:46:09 And thats great too Jul 19 14:46:10 dtx, this is why i love id software Jul 19 14:46:11 even my blog is Free content Jul 19 14:46:20 What about your food? Jul 19 14:46:22 you can charge users to pay the server bandwith etc... while keeping all software free! Jul 19 14:46:24 Is it free? Jul 19 14:46:32 SpeedEvil: I know what I am doing Jul 19 14:46:36 * SpeedEvil eats all kibas food. Jul 19 14:46:47 I make cents Jul 19 14:46:49 gg Jul 19 14:46:49 * xkr47 ties the kids to their seats Jul 19 14:46:52 Good closed source can be good for a platform. Jul 19 14:47:00 and an underage person for one Jul 19 14:47:05 closed source no good Jul 19 14:47:09 For example, $80 or so - for tomtom on the Neo1973 would be a big plus. Jul 19 14:47:12 no excuse Jul 19 14:47:13 extremism no good Jul 19 14:47:13 SpeedEvil: There is shared cost from developing an open source gaming engine Jul 19 14:47:30 And what are you selling anyways the game or some engine thats just like a million other engines Jul 19 14:48:22 I will hopefully be the first to release a game on the openmoko platform Jul 19 14:48:32 Well, unlikely. Jul 19 14:48:33 hehe Jul 19 14:48:39 xlander is in there AIUI. Jul 19 14:48:42 :) Jul 19 14:49:04 And I think someone tried nethack. Jul 19 14:49:13 nethack is cheating Jul 19 14:49:17 nethack runs on *everything* Jul 19 14:49:45 (huh! trying to bitbake a single package, I didn't though I would have to wait for all the "handling bitbake files" stufff X_X) Jul 19 14:49:52 kiba: holy crap you're following me Jul 19 14:50:04 qwell: pretty much. Lack of a keyb has problems though. Jul 19 14:50:11 keyb? Jul 19 14:50:13 oh Jul 19 14:50:22 Qwell[]: qwerty Jul 19 14:50:23 not really... you can on-screen it Jul 19 14:50:25 :-P Jul 19 14:50:33 qwell: yes - you can. Jul 19 14:50:41 HI guys :) Jul 19 14:50:42 You can only on screen one button press at a time Jul 19 14:50:46 then whats the point Jul 19 14:50:51 And for a game which typically involves 40000 keystrokes or so... Jul 19 14:51:01 it's a PITA, sure, but it'll run Jul 19 14:51:19 Though you can probably ascend in 7000 if you're insanely leet. Jul 19 14:51:19 so, can these actually be activated with a GSM carrier, say T-Mobile or Cingular? Jul 19 14:51:20 Kingsqueak: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 14:51:34 Kingsqueak: you generally just swap the SIM over. Jul 19 14:51:39 Kingsqueak: and it just works. Jul 19 14:51:42 cool Jul 19 14:51:58 heh the bot trigger is amusing, worked ;-) Jul 19 14:52:12 Someone port over FlightGear Jul 19 14:52:12 hahaha Jul 19 14:52:37 Sliding block, and ball-maze games might be fun to do with the accels. Jul 19 14:52:41 That would be awesome Jul 19 14:52:51 Quick question if I may: I can't seem to mount the gadgetfs file - unknown fs type apparently. Anyone had this issue? Jul 19 14:52:51 LeFallen: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 14:53:09 I don't think that's in the FAQ though :) Jul 19 14:53:25 SpeedEvil: scummvm is perfect ;) Jul 19 14:53:28 Legoguy: harware, or qemu? Jul 19 14:53:42 SpeedEvil: does to topic talk about receiving or sending part? Jul 19 14:53:44 oh yeah Jul 19 14:53:48 scummvm Jul 19 14:53:50 SpeedEvil: qemu :( postage to australia is $80 US :( Jul 19 14:53:51 That is a good one Jul 19 14:54:13 I've been wanting to play through Sam 'n Max again Jul 19 14:54:15 aloril: delivery Jul 19 14:54:22 dtx: the games usually have a native resolutio nof 640x480 and are fully usable with stylus. Jul 19 14:54:27 aloril: it was simply based on 'cc charging this week'. Jul 19 14:54:38 aloril: and no mention of shipping this week Jul 19 14:54:42 yeah Jul 19 14:55:00 SpeedEvil: ie.. "Neo1973 in hand" Jul 19 14:55:05 SpeedEvil: Unfortunately I don't have an in depth understanding of what's going on exactly when mounting "special" stuff :/ Jul 19 14:55:15 I know a scummvm developer, and apparently they are already talking about porting it :) Jul 19 14:55:21 I wish Lucas Arts never quit making those games Jul 19 14:55:27 alech: it's in openembedded Jul 19 14:55:44 dtx, same here Jul 19 14:55:44 Games are all twitch based now Jul 19 14:55:48 Kensan: oh, that sounds easy :) Jul 19 14:55:50 Nothing with atmosphere anymore Jul 19 14:55:55 ack Jul 19 14:56:18 alech: There is some talk on the wiki about porting sdl but afaik sdl should work. Jul 19 14:56:31 Well, SDL is in OpenEmbedded Jul 19 14:56:35 I will use rubygame and ruby... Jul 19 14:56:50 I used it on my OpenZaurus along with pygame Jul 19 14:56:59 kiba, do you have any expirience with ruby on arm? Jul 19 14:57:26 ruby on arm? Jul 19 14:58:06 yuck Jul 19 14:58:09 Is there a difference? Jul 19 14:58:14 ruby on anything is ruby Jul 19 14:58:17 at least in performance Jul 19 14:58:21 never heard of ruby on arm Jul 19 14:58:22 oh Jul 19 14:58:35 maybe you mean ruby on rails? Jul 19 14:58:40 the question is more: expiriences with ruby/lua/python/js whatever... Jul 19 14:58:43 no Jul 19 14:58:44 Ruby running on an ARM chipset Jul 19 14:58:51 nopes Jul 19 14:58:58 it has been just released a Ruby port on n800 Jul 19 14:58:59 s/nopes/nope Jul 19 14:59:00 today Jul 19 14:59:23 Python runs decently on ARM Jul 19 14:59:38 what about perl? Jul 19 14:59:55 dtx, i know - i ported a version to the greenphone. and some operations are painful slow. that's the cause i'm asking Jul 19 15:00:23 Like what operations? Jul 19 15:00:27 alech, exactly the same question. i dont start a flamewar here. i just ask for expirience on interreted languages Jul 19 15:00:46 dtx, i playing around with sqlite3, alchemy: to slow Jul 19 15:01:31 two ppl have received shipment confirmation Jul 19 15:01:32 well.. "We don't charge your credit card until the order is ready to ship." from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ Jul 19 15:01:35 good stuff Jul 19 15:01:45 but then it also talks about 2007-07-16 day which didn't happen Jul 19 15:01:58 small question: what exactly a "provider" is for bitbake? I want to compile a small "console hello world" and I get: no provider of build target Jul 19 15:02:25 I inherit "openmoko" and directly give SRC_URI in my .bb file Jul 19 15:03:02 how do i get the keyboard in qemu to show up? Jul 19 15:03:29 dtx, i use a 300MHz arm in a greenphone for my tests. i am searching for a nice language like python for some functionality. some functions are much easer to implement in such envs. Jul 19 15:03:33 ferric: click up the top, to the left. Jul 19 15:03:43 ferric > i think you have to tap in the white rectangle next to the "start menu" Jul 19 15:03:46 ferric: on the right of the white box Jul 19 15:03:59 BTW, why is this box "white" ? Jul 19 15:04:04 mdt, chicken scheme is great if u interested in performance as u can use interpreted or compiles to C Jul 19 15:04:06 I have used pygame, sqlite, and libgphoto with Python on 400MHz ARM and it was decent speed Jul 19 15:04:20 ferric: it's like a dropdown combo but it's not rendered. Jul 19 15:04:22 zedstar, good old lisp? Jul 19 15:04:29 But most cycle were probably spent inside those modules Jul 19 15:04:38 polling the camera or playing audio or writing to sqlite Jul 19 15:04:39 LaF0rge: ah brilliant! Jul 19 15:04:43 yeh a bit hardcore for some Jul 19 15:04:54 squalyl: yep - thanks! Jul 19 15:05:09 i remembered someone telling me top left, and i kept looking for it in top right! Jul 19 15:05:56 you're welcome Jul 19 15:05:59 squalyl: supposed to be a pic of the mode one assumes but a white squares fine with me :P Jul 19 15:06:04 dtx, yes, i use DirectFB and screen performance is amazing. but cmplex sql is painful slow Jul 19 15:06:50 anyone know how to setup serial console output when emulate under QEMU Jul 19 15:06:59 probably because you were using an ORM Jul 19 15:07:19 where the ORM was written mostly in the scripted language and not in C/C++ Jul 19 15:07:25 dtx, maybe, but i switched to webpy now, which is a little better Jul 19 15:07:27 I'm assuming Jul 19 15:08:24 are there any people working on js ports ? Jul 19 15:10:40 still getting "ERROR: No providers of build target testpack (for [])" with my personal package... Any "make a package with bitbake for dummies" somewhere? Jul 19 15:11:12 isn't there one on the mokomakefile page? Jul 19 15:11:40 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 19 15:11:46 very ottom of the page.. Jul 19 15:11:59 s/ottom/bottom/ Jul 19 15:11:59 ScaredyCat meant: very bottom of the page.. Jul 19 15:12:00 ScaredyCat meant: very bottom of the page.. Jul 19 15:12:06 twice Jul 19 15:12:17 yes there is one... sorry Jul 19 15:13:27 my source is not in a tar but in a svn but this may be useable... Jul 19 15:13:40 mokobot: tell apt ~botsnack Jul 19 15:13:57 tar it up :) Jul 19 15:14:04 squalyl: I think it's meant to represent a keyboard image. But nobodies gotten round to it. Jul 19 15:14:42 Ah ok... a very lit keyboard then.. Can't see the key ^^ Jul 19 15:14:51 s/key/keys/ Jul 19 15:14:52 squalyl meant: Ah ok... a very lit keysboard then.. Can't see the key ^^ Jul 19 15:14:53 squalyl meant: Ah ok... a very lit keysboard then.. Can't see the key ^^ Jul 19 15:15:16 failed... Jul 19 15:15:20 You can have bitbake pull from tar or svn and do you have your environment vars set up correctly? Jul 19 15:20:42 hi Jul 19 15:21:53 1 - I dont use mokomakefile but manual build Jul 19 15:22:19 2 - bitbake does not even try to pull anything Jul 19 15:22:33 s/can/cancan/ Jul 19 15:22:33 dtx meant: You cancan have bitbake pull from tar or svn and do you have your environment vars set up correctly? Jul 19 15:22:52 s/can/cancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancan/ Jul 19 15:22:53 dtx meant: You cancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancancan have bitbake pull from tar or svn and do you have your environment vars set up correctly? Jul 19 15:23:05 s/can/cancancancancancancancan/ Jul 19 15:23:06 dtx meant: You cancancancancancancancan have bitbake pull from tar or svn and do you have your environment vars set up correctly? Jul 19 15:23:12 environment is working to build normal openmoko-devel-image Jul 19 15:23:14 neat Jul 19 15:23:35 I added my personal build tree in BBPATH (appended) Jul 19 15:23:43 squalyl: maybe this is of interest? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001043.html Jul 19 15:24:10 MokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobot Jul 19 15:24:17 s/Mokobot/MokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobot/ Jul 19 15:24:19 dtx meant: MokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMokobotMok... Jul 19 15:24:23 wow Jul 19 15:24:39 ok, I'm tired with messing with Mokobot Jul 19 15:25:56 dtx: does your name stand for detox? Jul 19 15:27:01 no, it stands for DirectX cuz I luv Micr0$of7 Jul 19 15:27:30 rot13 test Jul 19 15:27:35 mokobot: rot13 test Jul 19 15:27:35 grfg Jul 19 15:27:39 cool Jul 19 15:28:02 pfft Jul 19 15:28:09 mokobot md5 test Jul 19 15:28:11 098f6bcd4621d373cade4e832627b4f6 Jul 19 15:28:30 so useful \o/ Jul 19 15:29:01 The problem of the mailing list guy is not like mine. He managed to get his .ipk, not me! Jul 19 15:29:35 mokobot sha1 and this one? Jul 19 15:29:38 join #linux-india Jul 19 15:30:14 Anyone here familiar with glib/gtk+ debugging? Jul 19 15:30:36 Sup3rkiddo, would be Jul 19 15:30:55 Anyone remember a stub page on the wiki discussing phones that run OM. I'm sure there was one at one point. Jul 19 15:31:35 mokobot 3.141592654^2 * 12 Jul 19 15:31:36 27 Jul 19 15:31:43 hmmm Jul 19 15:31:47 a bit approximated there Jul 19 15:32:09 mokobot: (float)(3.141592654^2 * 12) Jul 19 15:32:11 :p Jul 19 15:32:11 and wait Jul 19 15:32:14 dtx: unbelievable what mokobot can do! :) Jul 19 15:32:19 yeah Jul 19 15:32:23 is ^ exponentiation, or xor? Jul 19 15:32:34 xor Jul 19 15:32:36 :-P Jul 19 15:32:37 whoops Jul 19 15:33:28 How did he get 27? O.o Jul 19 15:33:37 mokobot pi**2 * 3 / pi**(1/2) Jul 19 15:33:37 16.704983961863 Jul 19 15:33:53 mokobot 3! Jul 19 15:33:54 neat Jul 19 15:34:01 no factorial? Jul 19 15:34:11 mokobot help math Jul 19 15:34:40 mokobot traceroute google.com Jul 19 15:34:47 I have a lot of ideas :) Jul 19 15:35:22 to gdb u-boot, should i have a openmoko cross-gdb for arm architecture? Jul 19 15:35:53 mokobot wikipedia boobs Jul 19 15:35:56 damn Jul 19 15:36:21 wikipedia have some great porn Jul 19 15:36:35 under the guise for educational purpose of all course Jul 19 15:36:44 yeah Jul 19 15:36:52 but pornotube.com has better Jul 19 15:37:30 mokobot Good hardcore stuff is at pornotube. Jul 19 15:37:30 dtx: okay Jul 19 15:37:38 Where is good hardcore stuff? Jul 19 15:37:47 mokobot: where is good hardcore stuff? Jul 19 15:37:47 I think you lost me on that one, dtx Jul 19 15:37:51 damnit Jul 19 15:37:54 :-P Jul 19 15:38:53 mokobot: Where can I find good hardcore stuff? Jul 19 15:39:10 I thought mokobot was supposed to learn Jul 19 15:39:32 mokobot is well educated :) Jul 19 15:39:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:GPS_Navigation]] [[GPS_Navigation]] [[Wish_List]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] Jul 19 15:39:49 doesn't want to learn this sort of things :D Jul 19 15:40:12 hehe Jul 19 15:41:57 mokobot uc i am screaming right now at all of you!! Jul 19 15:41:58 03I AM SCREAMING RIGHT NOW AT ALL OF YOU!! Jul 19 15:42:43 mokobot, `rm -rf / &` Jul 19 15:42:45 8) Jul 19 15:43:44 lol Jul 19 15:44:56 Updated Main_Page too - the first three paras, edited them down a bit, stuck the range of supported hardware in another page. It's quite short ATM :) Jul 19 15:46:51 suprizingly few payment confirmations on P1_Owners Jul 19 15:47:03 i figured after the first two, they payments would start rolling in. Jul 19 15:48:17 the mailing list is bursting with new application ideas. its very cool. Jul 19 15:48:52 :) Jul 19 15:49:07 don-o: Very annoying. Jul 19 15:49:12 lol Jul 19 15:49:13 Most of them are on the wiki :) Jul 19 15:49:15 Annoying? Jul 19 15:50:10 its a little OT but its great that people are dreaming and are inspired by the platform Jul 19 15:50:23 I'm dreaming Jul 19 15:50:29 But my dreams begin in October Jul 19 15:50:30 as was mentioned earlier, they'll have to recon with "2.8 inches of reality" at some point :) Jul 19 15:50:32 don-o, maybe so, but I'm off drugs and just want my gps. Jul 19 15:50:59 Along with a gprs modem, since the current one *sux*. Jul 19 15:50:59 i liked the location-aware task-list. Jul 19 15:51:42 I thought there was a GPRS modem? Jul 19 15:51:57 My current gprs modem sux, that's why I want my neo. Jul 19 15:52:07 To act as one. Jul 19 15:52:41 i was disappointed to read the gps modem is not class "whatever" where it can do voice and data simultaneously Jul 19 15:52:49 er gsm. sorry. Jul 19 15:53:56 Do you really think you'd be looking at the screen while talking to somebody Jul 19 15:54:20 absolutely with a bluetooth earpiece Jul 19 15:54:32 Good point. Jul 19 15:54:38 plus i think that means it cant take calls while using GPRS, but im guessing here. Jul 19 15:54:45 :( Jul 19 15:54:53 don-o, you mean gsm0710? Jul 19 15:55:00 gr8, reality just caught up on us. Jul 19 15:55:39 heh. even when im on a call the phone will have plenty of local information to be useful. Jul 19 15:55:51 usually i need to look at the screen to read off a phone number from the phone book Jul 19 15:56:00 don-o, so what's the problem? Jul 19 15:56:16 But it'd be nice to be actually able to google something while talking. Jul 19 15:56:33 Not to mention if it blocks calling, while gprs is on, that means it looses as a basic phone, doesn't it? Jul 19 15:56:37 I will probably use GPRS about twice a year to look up a map, the rest of the time there will probably be wifi so no problems here Jul 19 15:56:42 s/basic/primary/ Jul 19 15:56:42 mmazur meant: Not to mention if it blocks calling, while gprs is on, that means it looses as a primary phone, doesn't it? Jul 19 15:56:43 mmazur meant: Not to mention if it blocks calling, while gprs is on, that means it looses as a primary phone, doesn't it? Jul 19 15:57:01 Whoa. Jul 19 15:57:15 1337 Jul 19 15:57:19 bot-echo Jul 19 15:57:20 jor Jul 19 15:57:25 ^^ Jul 19 15:57:58 I've tried turning it off without restarting mokobot. Jul 19 15:57:59 mokobot rot13 Not to mention if it blocks calling, while gprs is on, that means it looses as a primary phone, doesn't it? Jul 19 15:57:59 Abg gb zragvba vs vg oybpxf pnyyvat, juvyr tcef vf ba, gung zrnaf vg ybbfrf nf n cevznel cubar, qbrfa'g vg? Jul 19 15:58:00 mmazur, why should it block calls when using gprs? Jul 19 15:58:01 stuff like that can be verified once there are more people with P1s Jul 19 15:58:28 mdt, if I understand correctly it can't do data and voice at the same time. Jul 19 15:59:07 http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/gprs/class.shtml Jul 19 15:59:12 dtx: Why did you want to cycle the bot? Jul 19 15:59:15 this is solved by gsm0710. the chip can do so, may be it's missing in the software currently, but as far as i know they are working on a driver for that Jul 19 15:59:58 class A: GPRS and GSM simultaneously, Class B: GPRS or GSM Jul 19 16:00:15 when will I be able to order a GTA02 ? Jul 19 16:00:25 loufoque: not for a long long time :) Jul 19 16:00:49 So neo has which class? Jul 19 16:00:55 do we know if the GTA02 hardware will be ready before the 'mass market' software is available? Jul 19 16:00:55 good Q Jul 19 16:01:15 mokobot: software? Jul 19 16:01:16 The answer to most software questions are no. Jul 19 16:01:38 ewanm89_laptop: I'm just playing with it Jul 19 16:01:39 don-o: I thought mass market was in november Jul 19 16:01:42 The bot Jul 19 16:01:44 that is Jul 19 16:01:53 re Jul 19 16:02:05 dtx: I realised, who put bill gate in there? Jul 19 16:02:16 Beats me Jul 19 16:02:25 How do you get it to recall anything Jul 19 16:02:25 loufoque: i thought the P1 edition was in January. Jul 19 16:02:27 It won't for me Jul 19 16:02:36 this is P1 Jul 19 16:02:39 mokobot: Bill Gates Jul 19 16:02:40 from memory, bill gates is in Hell. Jul 19 16:02:46 i think the hardware, the gsm-chip is capable of doing both... Jul 19 16:02:50 guaqua: i mean January of 07 Jul 19 16:02:51 P2 is whenever the software and hardware is ready Jul 19 16:02:55 "The GSM (including GPRS) modem is Texas Instruments Calypso based." Jul 19 16:02:56 oh cool Jul 19 16:03:05 mokobot: mokomakefile Jul 19 16:03:05 well, mokomakefile is an automted method for downloading, updated, and compiling the latest openmoko code. Jul 19 16:03:15 mokobot: good hardcore stuff Jul 19 16:03:15 somebody said good hardcore stuff was at pornotube. Jul 19 16:03:18 thats from the wiki. mdt is the gsm0710 the actuall model on the P1? Jul 19 16:03:18 don-o, now we know everything :) Jul 19 16:03:20 hahaha Jul 19 16:03:22 awesome Jul 19 16:03:42 mokomakefil stands for "I cant configure openembedded" *g* Jul 19 16:03:45 dtx: In two days and I got some interesting factoids in there. Jul 19 16:03:46 don-o: GTA02 (phase 2) is scheduled to go on sale on october. Jul 19 16:03:49 mmazur: ha. helpful, huh? Jul 19 16:03:56 mokobot: meaning of life Jul 19 16:04:00 mokobot: Where is my phone? Jul 19 16:04:00 CM: what are you talking about? Jul 19 16:04:02 loufoque: where is this schedule? Jul 19 16:04:03 :P Jul 19 16:04:05 mokobot: 42 Jul 19 16:04:10 don-o, didn't understand the question... Jul 19 16:04:11 hi CM Jul 19 16:04:12 loufoque: i know. and im saying GTA01 was scheduled to be sold in Jaunary 2007. Make your own conclusions :) Jul 19 16:04:17 guaqua [[Neo1973]] Jul 19 16:04:21 woglinde: Hello :) Jul 19 16:04:25 mokobot: answer to life Jul 19 16:04:32 mokobot: the meaning of life Jul 19 16:04:35 mokobot: The meaning of life is 42 Jul 19 16:04:35 okay, ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 16:04:41 dang Jul 19 16:04:42 guaqua: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Jul 19 16:04:48 mokobot: The meaning of life? Jul 19 16:04:51 mokobot: The meaning of life Jul 19 16:04:58 mokobot: The meaning of life is Jul 19 16:05:07 hihi Jul 19 16:05:08 mokobot: life Jul 19 16:05:17 Pff.. Sucky bot Jul 19 16:05:19 this is... disappointing. Such a cool bot has no culture! Jul 19 16:05:29 apt: mokobot is a lousy competitor Jul 19 16:05:31 CM: okay Jul 19 16:05:33 squalyl: You have to teach it. Jul 19 16:05:34 apt: mokobot Jul 19 16:05:35 i heard mokobot is a lousy competitor Jul 19 16:05:40 :D Jul 19 16:05:48 But they are the same. Jul 19 16:05:52 ~42? Jul 19 16:05:52 somebody said 42 was the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything Jul 19 16:05:56 mokobot: the meaning of life is 42 Jul 19 16:05:56 i already had it that way, ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 16:05:59 No they aren't Jul 19 16:06:03 mokobot answer to everything 42 Jul 19 16:06:05 mokobot: life is 42 Jul 19 16:06:05 okay, ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 16:06:13 mokobot: life Jul 19 16:06:13 42 Jul 19 16:06:18 lol Jul 19 16:06:31 mokobot: what is the meaning of life? Jul 19 16:06:31 guaqua: what are you talking about? Jul 19 16:06:37 mokobot: answer to everything 42 Jul 19 16:06:38 mokobot: 42 Jul 19 16:06:42 mokobot: when will I be able to order the GTA02 ? Jul 19 16:06:44 mokobot: the number of virgins in this room Jul 19 16:06:55 don't abuse the bot Jul 19 16:06:59 and thats an order Jul 19 16:07:16 yeah, it's not the bots fault it's a virgin Jul 19 16:07:17 chain of command seems to be rather vague here Jul 19 16:07:32 or even the general idea of a chain of command Jul 19 16:07:45 what if theres a bot rebellion or something Jul 19 16:07:50 apt: What do you get when you multiple 6 by 9? Jul 19 16:07:51 * apt do you get when you multiple 6 by 9 to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion Jul 19 16:07:58 Sup3rkiddo, we call in battlestar galactica. Jul 19 16:08:00 which effectively means giving orders isn't really going to fly Jul 19 16:08:11 loufoque: this November 2006 post might be good for a laugh: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000011.html Jul 19 16:08:30 6*9 Jul 19 16:08:36 apt: 6*9 Jul 19 16:08:37 54 Jul 19 16:08:43 apt: 100/0 Jul 19 16:08:49 mokobot: 6*9 Jul 19 16:08:49 54 Jul 19 16:08:57 mokobot: 9/0 Jul 19 16:08:57 mokobot, 10/0 Jul 19 16:08:59 mokobot: 100/0 Jul 19 16:09:00 mokobot: echo apt Jul 19 16:09:03 :-P Jul 19 16:09:06 don-o: the reality of IT Jul 19 16:09:09 muhaha...i did it Jul 19 16:09:28 * cjb_ie wonders if 'fic' is short for 'fictional' Jul 19 16:09:37 ~lart bot-abuse Jul 19 16:09:38 * apt declares bot-abuse a moron Jul 19 16:09:38 * mokobot beats bot-abuse senseless with a 50lb Unix manual Jul 19 16:09:42 mokobot == apt, other than we can have our own factfiles. Jul 19 16:10:05 ewanm89_laptop: You can add facts to apt too... instead of having to ask two different bots... Jul 19 16:10:17 Qwell[]: but. Jul 19 16:10:21 apt: source Jul 19 16:10:22 To build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file. Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source. The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`. Jul 19 16:10:30 ~mokosource Jul 19 16:10:32 Do we want the debian ones? Jul 19 16:10:34 mokobot: seen mokobot Jul 19 16:10:34 cheesy: i haven't seen 'mokobot' Jul 19 16:10:43 hi there, anyone knowing what formalities one has to comply with when importing the neo to germany? i don't want to be jailed for buying a free phone ;) Jul 19 16:10:44 mokobot: source Jul 19 16:10:51 I rest my case. Jul 19 16:10:59 ulmen ups will contact you Jul 19 16:11:07 Qwell[]: But if you wish to define one you can. Jul 19 16:11:08 and ups manage it Jul 19 16:11:41 mokobot: wtf Jul 19 16:11:53 mokobot: wtf Qwell[] Jul 19 16:11:53 woglinde: okay thanks, do you know the estimated costs of this? or is it included in the shipping costs? Jul 19 16:11:54 no binary found. Jul 19 16:12:06 ~qwell Jul 19 16:12:07 somebody said qwell was a patented liquid formula that contains three plant-based bio-active agents that work together in a perfectly balanced combination. These agents act synergistically to boost your good cholesterol and slash the bad. Jul 19 16:12:07 ulmen hm cant say Jul 19 16:12:09 Can mokobot do that? Jul 19 16:12:17 ulmen you have to pay 19% vat Jul 19 16:12:20 Qwell[]: Yes. Jul 19 16:12:21 ~guaqua Jul 19 16:12:24 (mehrwertsteuer) Jul 19 16:12:29 Without me having to tell him? :) Jul 19 16:12:40 mokobot: love Jul 19 16:12:42 ulme: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shipping_Notes#Germany Jul 19 16:12:43 woglinde: umsatzsteuer ;) Jul 19 16:12:48 apt-get me a phone Jul 19 16:12:58 Qwell[]: Someone has told apt in the past. Jul 19 16:13:09 no, somebody told jbot :p Jul 19 16:13:18 ~love Jul 19 16:13:19 Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.... And now abideth faith, hope, ... Jul 19 16:13:22 (jbot is way cooler than apt) Jul 19 16:13:31 Qwell[]: Somehow it got in apts db. Jul 19 16:13:46 ~iphone Jul 19 16:13:52 i just had to Jul 19 16:14:03 ~neo Jul 19 16:14:04 extra, extra, read all about it, neo is 100% beef Jul 19 16:14:08 yesterday I saw an reportage about german toll at ariport, which searched luggae and found 2 handys and the woman who owns them had to pay 40 euros vat and 60 euros penalty Jul 19 16:14:12 mokobot: can I has a openmoko? Jul 19 16:14:12 No Jul 19 16:14:16 :( Jul 19 16:14:21 ups 2 cellphones Jul 19 16:14:32 ~lart german word for cellphone Jul 19 16:14:32 * apt chops german word in half with a free Solaris 7 CD for cellphone Jul 19 16:14:32 * mokobot offers german word some herring for cellphone Jul 19 16:14:50 ~lart apt Jul 19 16:14:50 * mokobot slaps apt around with a large trout Jul 19 16:14:50 * apt hereby declares sup3rkiddo a troll Jul 19 16:14:57 interesting Jul 19 16:15:05 ~lart mokobot Jul 19 16:15:05 * apt pushes the wall down onto mokobot whilst whistling innocently Jul 19 16:15:05 * mokobot puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, sup3rkiddo, this won't hurt a bit...." Jul 19 16:15:15 so...there...mokobot!=apt Jul 19 16:15:26 Sup3rkiddo: Why not? Jul 19 16:15:31 great work Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:15:36 ewanm89_laptop, scroll up Jul 19 16:15:52 cheesy, thats why they call me the Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:16:02 Sup3rkiddo: I know what you just done with random number generators. Jul 19 16:16:18 you should work as a secret agent Jul 19 16:16:27 ewanm89_laptop, lets keep that within ourselves ok Jul 19 16:16:42 cheesy, i am working for NS.....er..never mind Jul 19 16:17:23 mokobot: wtf NSA Jul 19 16:17:24 no binary found. Jul 19 16:17:28 maybe you will find a way to get one of these p2 prototypes ;) Jul 19 16:17:49 i wish Jul 19 16:17:57 mokobot: wtf false Jul 19 16:17:59 no binary found. Jul 19 16:18:01 blootbot/trunk/blootbot % wtf NSA [0] Jul 19 16:18:01 Gee... I don't know what NSA means... Jul 19 16:18:12 Bloddy binary exists. Jul 19 16:18:20 any sign of more that 2 people getting their cards charged yet? Jul 19 16:18:25 No such agency Jul 19 16:18:28 s/that/than/ Jul 19 16:18:28 ScaredyCat meant: any sign of more than 2 people getting their cards charged yet? Jul 19 16:18:29 ScaredyCat meant: any sign of more than 2 people getting their cards charged yet? Jul 19 16:18:45 now now, don't both rush in to correct me Jul 19 16:18:53 ok this is obviously sh*t Jul 19 16:19:25 hey mokobot Jul 19 16:19:36 great to have you here again Jul 19 16:19:45 Hy Jul 19 16:19:47 mokobot: welcome Jul 19 16:19:53 s/Hy/Hey/ Jul 19 16:19:53 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:19:53 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:20:00 No. Jul 19 16:20:05 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:20:27 s/welcome/welcome my friend Jul 19 16:20:44 sdjfkasjlf Jul 19 16:21:00 hmmm Jul 19 16:21:00 s/sdjfkasjlf/damn Jul 19 16:21:09 lets try something Jul 19 16:21:16 mokobot: cycle #openmoko Jul 19 16:21:22 sdjdifs Jul 19 16:21:22 mokobot: cycle Jul 19 16:21:44 it's broke Jul 19 16:21:45 s/sdjdifs/grrrr/ Jul 19 16:21:46 cheesy meant: grrrr Jul 19 16:21:52 mokobot: reverse esrever :tpa Jul 19 16:22:01 hmmm Jul 19 16:22:01 :D Jul 19 16:22:05 that was odd Jul 19 16:22:30 mokobot: cycle Jul 19 16:22:30 error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) Jul 19 16:22:38 apt: reverse esrever: tpa Jul 19 16:22:39 apt :reverse Jul 19 16:22:44 Hy Jul 19 16:22:49 * ScaredyCat waves a flag at mokobot Jul 19 16:22:51 s/Hy/Hey/ Jul 19 16:22:51 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:22:51 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:22:55 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:23:06 ewanm89_laptop meant: Hey Jul 19 16:23:14 stfu Jul 19 16:23:18 * cheesy is slow Jul 19 16:23:20 :-P Jul 19 16:23:26 ewanm89_laptop meant: i am an idiot Jul 19 16:23:30 I've turned it off in this chan. Jul 19 16:23:41 mokobot: cycle Jul 19 16:23:41 error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) Jul 19 16:23:42 mokobot: cycle Jul 19 16:23:58 mokobot: halt Jul 19 16:24:14 mokobot, exit(0) Jul 19 16:24:23 counter Jul 19 16:24:23 (last update 2007-07-19 00:49) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 21:47:45 (0.908±0.9 days) (1760;248) Jul 19 16:24:25 mokobot: reverse reverse nuns! nuns! Jul 19 16:24:27 !snun !snun esrever Jul 19 16:24:32 * Sup3rkiddo returns to do better things in life Jul 19 16:24:53 * cheesy likes bots Jul 19 16:25:07 !googlefight Sup3rkiddo vs wet lettuce Jul 19 16:25:16 ScaredyCat, that was lame Jul 19 16:25:26 it died Jul 19 16:25:35 !googlefight Sup3rkiddo vs cabbage Jul 19 16:25:36 mokobot: googlefight openmoko vs windows mobile Jul 19 16:25:47 welcome again mokobot Jul 19 16:25:59 mokobot: googlefight openmoko vs windows mobile Jul 19 16:25:59 hello moko[bot] Jul 19 16:26:14 mokobot does not do googlefight, and I'm tryig to turn off sed in this channel Jul 19 16:26:26 s/tryig/trying Jul 19 16:26:28 s/tryig/trying/ Jul 19 16:26:29 ewanm89_laptop meant: s/trying/trying Jul 19 16:26:37 w00t Jul 19 16:26:42 ewanm89_laptop meant: error Jul 19 16:26:47 * Qwell[] cackles Jul 19 16:26:58 * Sup3rkiddo beats up cheesy with an emacs manual Jul 19 16:27:02 mokobot: dns cheese.com Jul 19 16:27:03 cheese.com is 195.149.84.89 Jul 19 16:27:11 mokobot: dns localhost Jul 19 16:27:13 localhost is 127.0.0.1 Jul 19 16:27:29 mokobot, hax0r localhost Jul 19 16:27:33 Um, that would be my local DNS. Jul 19 16:27:34 mokobot: help Jul 19 16:27:40 mokobot: diebotdie is ~diebotdie Jul 19 16:27:42 * Qwell[] coughs Jul 19 16:27:45 okay, Qwell[] Jul 19 16:27:46 mokobot: forget diebotdie Jul 19 16:27:47 i forgot diebotdie, Qwell[] Jul 19 16:27:52 Search my domain and. Jul 19 16:27:57 ~help Jul 19 16:28:00 ewanm89_laptop: 2 bots in a channel == BAD Jul 19 16:28:18 and fun Jul 19 16:28:20 mokobot: dns ewanm89.homelinux.org Jul 19 16:28:22 ewanm89.homelinux.org is 192.168.0.4 Jul 19 16:28:27 ~commands Jul 19 16:28:37 even one bot in a channel is bad enough =P Jul 19 16:28:41 mokobot: ddos 192.168.0.4 Jul 19 16:28:42 Qwell[]: No bot in channel == BAD too. Jul 19 16:28:56 mokobot: cpustats Jul 19 16:28:57 Total CPU usage: 0.6 s ... Total used: 0.29 % (parent/child ratio: 100.0 %) Jul 19 16:29:02 ScaredyCat: That would destroy the bot itself. Jul 19 16:29:08 lol Jul 19 16:29:12 :) Jul 19 16:29:23 mokobot: top Jul 19 16:29:40 mokobot: delete pr0n Jul 19 16:29:41 mokobot: nickometer Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:29:42 'Sup3rkiddo' is 22.000% lame, scaredycat Jul 19 16:29:49 :s Jul 19 16:29:57 is that all... :P Jul 19 16:30:02 mokobot, nickometer ScaredyCat Jul 19 16:30:04 'ScaredyCat' is 0.000% lame, sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:30:06 ~uptime Jul 19 16:30:07 :D Jul 19 16:30:09 :O Jul 19 16:30:10 mokobot: crypt helloworld Jul 19 16:30:10 BlZ5CRkvcS8tg Jul 19 16:30:13 mokobot: nickometer cheesy Jul 19 16:30:15 the bots rigged Jul 19 16:30:15 'cheesy' is 0.000% lame, ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 16:30:25 Sup3rkiddo: It's not. Jul 19 16:30:28 mokobot: nickometer m0k0b0t Jul 19 16:30:30 'm0k0b0t' is 99.790% lame, scaredycat Jul 19 16:30:45 mokobot: babelfish salut Jul 19 16:30:50 ewanm89_laptop, it just said i am 22% but i am lamer Jul 19 16:30:52 mokobot: nickometer ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 16:30:54 'ewanm89_laptop' is 25.000% lame, ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 16:31:07 * Sup3rkiddo points at ewanm89_laptop and laughs Jul 19 16:31:17 mokobot: mokobot++ Jul 19 16:31:21 Um, maybe I should rig it. Jul 19 16:31:36 mokobot: nickometer ewon Jul 19 16:31:36 mokobot: karma mokobot Jul 19 16:31:37 ewanm89_laptop, yeah make ScaredyCat 100% lame Jul 19 16:31:37 mokobot has neutral karma Jul 19 16:31:38 'ewon' is 0.000% lame, ewon Jul 19 16:31:40 ScaredyCat: Sorry db problem there. Jul 19 16:31:43 \o/ Jul 19 16:31:55 mokobot, karma Sufflope Jul 19 16:31:55 sufflope has neutral karma Jul 19 16:31:59 mokobot, karma Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:31:59 sup3rkiddo has neutral karma Jul 19 16:32:04 mokobot: nickometer summatusmentis Jul 19 16:32:06 'summatusmentis' is 0.000% lame, summatusmentis Jul 19 16:32:16 WIN Jul 19 16:32:25 mokobot: karma summatusmentis Jul 19 16:32:25 summatusmentis has neutral karma Jul 19 16:32:28 mokobot: nickometer LaF0rge Jul 19 16:32:30 'LaF0rge' is 97.280% lame, scaredycat Jul 19 16:32:33 lol Jul 19 16:32:33 i wonder how it calculates the lame thing Jul 19 16:32:35 rofl Jul 19 16:32:51 mokobot: dbugs Jul 19 16:32:54 probably looking for 'script kiddie' an capitalization Jul 19 16:32:54 it's caps / nimbers Jul 19 16:33:18 nimbers bimbers Jul 19 16:33:50 mokobot: adduser cheesy Jul 19 16:34:12 mokobot: piglatin my head is in a spin Jul 19 16:34:13 myay eadhay isway inway away inspay Jul 19 16:34:30 mokobot: reverse(piglatin my head is in a spin) Jul 19 16:34:30 okay, ScaredyCat Jul 19 16:34:38 ooo Jul 19 16:35:04 mokobot: forget reverse(piglatin my head Jul 19 16:35:04 ScaredyCat: i forgot reverse(piglatin my head Jul 19 16:35:08 mokobot: die Jul 19 16:35:15 mokobot: listkeys Jul 19 16:35:18 mokobot: mokobot++ Jul 19 16:35:26 mokobot: karma mokobot Jul 19 16:35:26 mokobot has karma of 1 Jul 19 16:35:35 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:35:36 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 Jul 19 16:35:41 aaaah Jul 19 16:35:47 mokobot: Jason1-- Jul 19 16:35:50 mokobot: Jason1-- Jul 19 16:35:51 mokobot: Jason1-- Jul 19 16:36:01 mokobot jason1 Jul 19 16:36:02 * mokobot clubs Jason1 and steals his neo Jul 19 16:36:05 mokobot: news Jul 19 16:36:09 that'll teach him Jul 19 16:36:12 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:14 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:14 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:14 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:15 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:15 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:16 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:18 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:19 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:19 whoah Jul 19 16:36:20 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:21 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:21 yeah! Jul 19 16:36:22 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:36:23 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:36:26 mokobot: cycle Jul 19 16:36:31 ! Jul 19 16:36:35 ok my work here is done Jul 19 16:36:36 EVILLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!1oneone!1 Jul 19 16:36:47 * ScaredyCat slaps dtx Jul 19 16:36:57 what'd you do? Jul 19 16:36:59 I had to try it Jul 19 16:37:00 I told you having two bots was bad. :P Jul 19 16:37:07 dtx: nice one, please make it and endless loop Jul 19 16:37:14 s/and/an Jul 19 16:37:16 impossible Jul 19 16:37:16 It went into emergency timeout. Jul 19 16:37:17 dtx: nice Jul 19 16:37:24 there is no variable expansion Jul 19 16:37:30 or loop construct Jul 19 16:37:37 that I know of at least Jul 19 16:37:50 dtx: Um, you can't access them. Jul 19 16:38:08 well, it wouldn't be a challenge if I could anyways Jul 19 16:38:12 :-P Jul 19 16:38:16 And it has an emergency overflow. Jul 19 16:38:18 dtx: then just do a long enough line to get the bots removed by the network =) Jul 19 16:38:24 mokobot: say hello Jul 19 16:38:27 nah Jul 19 16:38:32 I was just messing around Jul 19 16:38:35 mokobot: say hello Jul 19 16:38:44 mokobot: say hello #openmoko Jul 19 16:38:47 mokobot: time Jul 19 16:38:53 :/ Jul 19 16:38:54 mokobot: say #openmoko hello Jul 19 16:38:57 mokobot: say #openmoko hellol Jul 19 16:39:07 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 Jul 19 16:39:07 apt: rot13 Jul 19 16:39:07 mokobot: help Jul 19 16:39:24 mokobot: tell dtx he's a womble Jul 19 16:39:32 haha Jul 19 16:39:55 [2007-07-19 17:39:12] No, scaredycat, I won't. Jul 19 16:40:11 mokobot: news add OpenMoko is the World’s First Integrated Open Source Mobile Jul 19 16:40:11 So I saw, lol Jul 19 16:40:12 mokobot: rot13 qgk: lbh'er n jbzoyr. Jul 19 16:40:12 dtx: you're a womble. Jul 19 16:40:19 Communications Platform Jul 19 16:40:26 pasting sucks sometimes :) Jul 19 16:43:25 mokobot: news Jul 19 16:43:57 uh oh Jul 19 16:44:15 mokobot: news text 1 Open mobile communications development platform and phones will create explosive growth of mobile applications to rival the diversity and size of the massive ringtone market and foster new income models for carriers Jul 19 16:44:41 poor bots Jul 19 16:44:41 mokobot: news read 1 Jul 19 16:45:09 stuff Jul 19 16:45:11 he's on strike Jul 19 16:45:14 s/stuff/more stuff Jul 19 16:45:23 mokobot: s/stuff/more stuff/ Jul 19 16:45:29 s/stuff/more stuff/ Jul 19 16:45:30 dtx meant: mokobot: s/more stuff/more stuff/ Jul 19 16:45:36 hmmm Jul 19 16:45:38 dtx meant: more stuff Jul 19 16:45:49 dtx meant: more stuff Jul 19 16:46:05 (humans have to give a hand to bots, incredible !) Jul 19 16:46:09 mokobot: Klaatu barada nikto! Jul 19 16:46:21 !botsnack Jul 19 16:46:22 * cdbot2 aw, gee, bedboi Jul 19 16:46:32 ~botsnack Jul 19 16:46:32 thanks, ScaredyCat Jul 19 16:46:32 ScaredyCat: :) Jul 19 16:46:36 :D Jul 19 16:46:42 mokobot: Does not do sed in #openmoko, but does in #openmoko dev. Jul 19 16:46:43 2 for the price of 1 Jul 19 16:46:44 lol, I fogot about cdbot2 Jul 19 16:47:23 sdji Jul 19 16:47:23 s/#openmoko dev/#openmoko-dev/ Jul 19 16:47:24 ewanm89_laptop meant: mokobot: Does not do sed in #openmoko, but does in #openmoko-dev. Jul 19 16:47:47 mokobot: speed-up openmoko-devel-image Jul 19 16:48:17 squalyl: I wish it could do that too. Jul 19 16:48:24 :) Jul 19 16:49:20 OK guys, see you later, internship is great but it's time to go home! ++ Jul 19 16:49:33 squalyl, bye Jul 19 16:50:27 Anyone other than CM that has received a payment received e-mail? Jul 19 16:51:07 jason1 Jul 19 16:51:35 mokobot: jason1 Jul 19 16:51:36 * mokobot clubs Jason1 and steals his neo Jul 19 16:51:47 mokobot, Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:52:26 Which rt number was he? Jul 19 16:52:33 1820 Jul 19 16:52:38 CM 1821 Jul 19 16:53:06 okay, .. hm, so they setup everything did two and went home? Jul 19 16:53:49 yeah.. Jul 19 16:53:57 cu Jul 19 16:54:02 well, went on holidayI guess Jul 19 16:54:12 bye cheesy Jul 19 16:54:49 or maybe they exaggerated about 500x times about the first batch :P Jul 19 16:55:22 Sup3rkiddo: You don't learn? Jul 19 16:55:41 ewanm89_laptop, ? Jul 19 16:55:59 sannes: you mean those 2 in the video were the only 2 Jul 19 16:56:02 :) Jul 19 16:56:27 ewanm89_laptop, did i do anything wrong? Jul 19 16:56:52 No, but if you don't teaach it something it can't reply? Jul 19 16:57:33 ewanm89_laptop, ok ok :P Jul 19 16:57:56 mokobot: Sup3rkiddo is 22% lame apparently. Jul 19 16:57:56 ...but sup3rkiddo is already something else... Jul 19 16:58:22 ScaredyCat, :P Jul 19 16:58:25 mokobot, Sufflope Jul 19 16:58:28 mokobot, Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:58:29 Sup3rkiddo is the rock Jul 19 16:58:32 :P Jul 19 16:58:35 good bot Jul 19 16:59:38 ScaredyCat: hm, when you say that, .. it seems to make sense :P Jul 19 16:59:46 mokobot: Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 16:59:47 22% lame, apparently Jul 19 16:59:55 the big boxes were just cleaning supplies Jul 19 16:59:56 lol Jul 19 17:00:07 bad day Jul 19 17:00:08 ScaredyCat: :P Jul 19 17:00:21 ;) Jul 19 17:00:34 gah Jul 19 17:02:16 ~lart Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 17:02:16 * mokobot brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, Sup3rkiddo!" and lops off Sup3rkiddo's head Jul 19 17:02:16 * apt hits Sup3rkiddo with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha Jul 19 17:02:29 suicide bunny Jul 19 17:03:04 ~Sup3rkiddo Jul 19 17:03:04 22% lame, apparently Jul 19 17:03:17 Know if jason1 ordered the advanced or basic? Jul 19 17:03:19 :S Jul 19 17:03:32 basic Jul 19 17:03:44 sannes, basic from the looks of the screenshot Jul 19 17:03:50 unfortunatly :( Jul 19 17:04:17 community mailing list is starting to kick up some grumbling users too Jul 19 17:04:22 someone already has an neo1973 in their hands, and they're not me? they must die, surely. Jul 19 17:04:38 i really wish it doesnt get stuck in customs...over here in India they are pretty harsh Jul 19 17:04:38 lol Jul 19 17:05:03 * ScaredyCat ties woglinde to a table Jul 19 17:05:12 I am not dying Jul 19 17:05:27 ScaredyCat, your nick doesnt do any justice really Jul 19 17:05:37 raaar Jul 19 17:06:06 * SpeedEvil probably isn't going to help with the grumbling. Jul 19 17:06:20 I've just added a comment speculating on November as worst case for next batch. Jul 19 17:06:28 :O Jul 19 17:06:50 If they haven't kicked off the production process yet, don't do so for a week or so till they get the neos out the door, and it takes 6 weeks plus a weeks shipping. Jul 19 17:07:00 so.. no neo1973 photo gallery? Jul 19 17:07:21 juri_: there are photos on the wiki. Also search flickr for neo1973 Jul 19 17:07:45 Has anyone else been billed? Jul 19 17:07:48 Yes. Jul 19 17:07:51 Who? Jul 19 17:07:52 On the other side. Jul 19 17:07:56 2 peopel Jul 19 17:07:59 eoeoeepeppe Jul 19 17:08:02 1820 and 1821? Jul 19 17:08:02 people Jul 19 17:08:02 Somebody. James1 or soething. Jul 19 17:08:06 ya Jul 19 17:08:06 jason1? Jul 19 17:08:08 Also. Jul 19 17:08:13 CM && Jason1 Jul 19 17:08:18 nnext week guys Jul 19 17:08:23 Sean posted saying that you'd get a tracking number with your CC charge. Jul 19 17:08:27 Has this happened. Jul 19 17:08:29 nope Jul 19 17:08:50 Do you know if they are planning to process orders > #1821? Jul 19 17:08:59 lol Jul 19 17:09:01 sure Jul 19 17:09:11 ever? yes? this year? dunno Jul 19 17:09:19 On the other hand - if the production takes the minimum amount of time, the production was kicked off the day after ordering, it could be as soon as a month before the next batch is delivered. Jul 19 17:09:58 yeah, but at a rate of 1 per day, billed (not shipped) it'll be novemer before they're done Jul 19 17:10:08 was't there a stat that said if needed, (its not now) fic could produce 100kilo-mokos/month Jul 19 17:10:18 Yes. Jul 19 17:10:33 Having the theoretical capability to do so, and turning it on is another thing entirely. Jul 19 17:10:35 produce being the word Jul 19 17:10:45 also there may be limits on the lcd panels Jul 19 17:10:45 not ship. lol Jul 19 17:11:21 I cant wait for GTA02. The feature that I want most is the 2 3d acceleramaters? Jul 19 17:11:41 yeah, well don't count on october will you Jul 19 17:11:52 There are some vendors contemplating adding accelerometers to GTA01. Jul 19 17:11:58 Well, specifically me. Jul 19 17:12:01 good evenin' there Jul 19 17:12:11 can they do it now SpeedEvil... might speed shipping Jul 19 17:12:13 :) Jul 19 17:12:21 I cant find much info about them. Are they x, y, z linear accels, or xy, yz, xz gyros. or a unit with both providing 6 degs of freedom? Jul 19 17:12:39 Look at accellerometer_fundamentals on the wiki Jul 19 17:12:43 gyros only Jul 19 17:12:49 ohh :( Jul 19 17:12:54 err Jul 19 17:12:57 accels only. Jul 19 17:13:05 ohh :) Jul 19 17:13:29 Basically the only thing you can do with them is to tell which way down is. Jul 19 17:13:37 SpeedEvil: you're a vendor? Jul 19 17:13:37 Anything more isn't really practical. Jul 19 17:13:49 loufoque: I've sold stuff on ebay, so yes! :) Jul 19 17:14:16 I wish they would have a 6DOF set. You could use it as an inertial guidance system. Jul 19 17:14:22 No, you can't. Jul 19 17:14:31 i.e. You could take it with you in a car and it could tell you your speed Jul 19 17:14:35 No, you can't. Jul 19 17:14:42 why couldnt you? Jul 19 17:14:51 they measure G force Jul 19 17:14:53 Current integrated accelerometers and gyros are basically crap. Jul 19 17:15:11 They have an error of - at best - a centimeter a second of error. Jul 19 17:15:13 Yes. and you integrate G force's WRT time to get velo Jul 19 17:15:19 a centimeter a second a second Jul 19 17:15:20 but you could measure acceleration Jul 19 17:15:39 and velo WRT time to get displacement Jul 19 17:15:39 which gives you an error of 70MPH after an hour. Jul 19 17:15:40 just use the gps to tell you your speed Jul 19 17:15:49 then you'll have gps Jul 19 17:15:54 And a position error of some 35 miles. Jul 19 17:16:14 Completely neglecting the fact that you don't know the orientation, so you can't do this anyway. Jul 19 17:16:50 Yes you can. If you zeroed it when you "knew" you were not moving Jul 19 17:17:08 To get a meaningful directory would need to align them Jul 19 17:17:10 No, you can't. Jul 19 17:17:18 They have an error of - at best - a centimeter a second a second of error. Jul 19 17:17:43 Ok. but its not that you physically cant, its just they dont have the precision Jul 19 17:18:12 right, and then there's the vibrations in your car Jul 19 17:18:16 Can't with devices that are available to plausibly fit into a phone or other openmoko device = can't in this channel IMO. Jul 19 17:18:46 Thats why you need more sensative units. Jul 19 17:18:46 You can do a whole lot better with $100K worth of high precision laser gyros and stuff in a big cabinet. Jul 19 17:19:00 There are no more sensitive units that will fit in phones. Jul 19 17:19:10 Even for silly money. Jul 19 17:19:29 http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01126911184595 Jul 19 17:19:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals is worth a read. Jul 19 17:19:36 Yes, I know. Jul 19 17:19:56 And I also know that they have a noise figure of (IIRC) 330uG/sqrt(Hz) of error Jul 19 17:20:07 And a _horrific_ temperature coefficient. Jul 19 17:20:40 There are _no_ vendors of accelerometers in this form factor that are significantly better than this. Jul 19 17:21:07 And yes, I've looked. Jul 19 17:21:13 Quite extensively. Jul 19 17:21:14 http://www.xbow.com/Products/productdetails.aspx?sid=165 lol Jul 19 17:21:37 just strap it on to the back of the moko Jul 19 17:22:36 adn there are compass-controllers Jul 19 17:22:57 a compass for the gps would be niec Jul 19 17:23:02 especially once we have a camera ;) Jul 19 17:23:08 That's not actually better calamous. Jul 19 17:23:28 SpeedEvil: wew i didnt realzie that the integrated accel systems dont have that great of precision Jul 19 17:23:29 .6 milligee = .6cm/s/s accelleration. Jul 19 17:23:32 geotagged, directional pictures hehehe Jul 19 17:23:50 speedEvil: sorry Jul 19 17:23:55 :( Jul 19 17:24:08 SpeedEvil but you could use the gyro for rotating 3d objects on the phone to point to the same direction (ground) all the time - which makes it ideal for 3d simulationvieving - all you'd need is rotation of one axes Jul 19 17:24:13 They also haven't gotten significantly better - in fundamental performance. Jul 19 17:24:19 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: xvpx ncg Jul 19 17:24:20 mokobot: kick apt Jul 19 17:24:26 ah Jul 19 17:24:29 failed assisted suicide Jul 19 17:24:41 kristian-m: telling down with the accelerometers is trivial. Jul 19 17:24:50 At least roughly, if you're not moving much. Jul 19 17:25:03 SpeedEvil wow i could absolutely use that feature :) Jul 19 17:25:24 as long as you aren't dropping 9.80665m/s**2 Jul 19 17:25:45 If you're for example going sharply round a bend while driving aggressively, down might wander out to 45 degrees or so. Jul 19 17:25:50 maybe with the richt algorithm you could simulate physics and led things spinn on the screen... Jul 19 17:26:23 Consider 'sliding block' and those games where you tilt a maze of ball-bearings into holes. Jul 19 17:26:38 SpeedEvil but that could be a usefull effect Jul 19 17:26:40 tilt ball bearings through a maze into holes Jul 19 17:26:53 :-) Jul 19 17:26:54 kristian-m: yes - look at the accelerometer_fundamentals page. Jul 19 17:27:03 I've gone into a few plausible apps. Jul 19 17:27:07 SpeedEvil: what is your profession? Jul 19 17:27:25 professional irc talker i believe Jul 19 17:27:26 calamous: wiki editor 8) Jul 19 17:27:32 SpeedEvil is professional gyrometer ;) Jul 19 17:27:36 At the moment I'm unemployed due to poor health. Jul 19 17:27:44 * SpeedEvil stabs buz with a pen. Jul 19 17:27:46 Gyrometer Jul 19 17:27:53 mokobot: rot13 ~yneg qgk Jul 19 17:27:53 not funny now Jul 19 17:27:53 ~lart dtx Jul 19 17:27:53 * apt beats dtx to within 2.54cm of his life Jul 19 17:27:58 SpeedEvil: sorry to heal that Jul 19 17:28:02 hear* Jul 19 17:28:23 haha Jul 19 17:28:24 great Jul 19 17:28:57 What does everyone else do? Jul 19 17:29:00 And some days seemingly wiki editor. Jul 19 17:29:31 student Jul 19 17:29:40 What concintration? Jul 19 17:30:12 I enslave computers Jul 19 17:30:21 s/enslave computers/am a programmer/ Jul 19 17:30:21 dtx meant: I am a programmer Jul 19 17:30:26 * Dmitry_Platonov works in russian aerospace company (satellite navigation division) Jul 19 17:30:41 * Dmitry_Platonov programmer Jul 19 17:30:46 Dimitry: da, pravda? Jul 19 17:30:57 Pravda ;-) Jul 19 17:31:08 ochen horrosho Jul 19 17:31:08 Is that rot13? Jul 19 17:31:10 ;/k Jul 19 17:31:24 mokobot: rot13 ochen horrosho Jul 19 17:31:24 bpura ubeebfub Jul 19 17:31:25 s/;\/k/j\/k Jul 19 17:31:35 mechatronic engen Jul 19 17:31:42 Dmitry_Platonov: What's the story on the GLONASS high precision code. I haven't been able to find any documentation other than the public statement that it will be freed. (idly wondering). Jul 19 17:32:00 he's a spy, don't tell im Jul 19 17:32:10 The NSA could be listening right now Jul 19 17:32:13 * ScaredyCat hides in the cornet Jul 19 17:32:17 ! Jul 19 17:32:20 corner Jul 19 17:32:21 building noisless voip-hardware Jul 19 17:32:45 Noiseless? You mean with noise suppression for large conf calls? Jul 19 17:33:20 no moving parts Jul 19 17:33:25 Doubt it will be freed. AFAIK, GPS is neither, receivers do codeless correlation Jul 19 17:33:30 i Jul 19 17:33:31 damn, is anyone aware of a good health insurance for the States? Jul 19 17:33:36 i'm quite lost Jul 19 17:33:42 nope Jul 19 17:33:44 Um, irc is non-encrypted anyway, anyone can watch. Jul 19 17:33:56 bedboi: move to canada Jul 19 17:34:03 bedboi: i think the trick is to have a few million dollars in the bank. Jul 19 17:34:06 lol - good health insurance in the us .. Jul 19 17:34:13 bedboi: or see Michel More's movie SICKO Jul 19 17:34:27 otherwise, you're screwed. unless maybe you work for a hospital, as a friend of mine does. Jul 19 17:34:40 mokobot: md5 yeah we know ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 17:34:42 4cb86b4c3fe689de66280df08b97df23 Jul 19 17:34:46 s/Michel More/Michael Moore/ Jul 19 17:34:51 heh it makes me sweat when I see "SOLD OUT! ..." subjects in mail before I see they're just normal spam :) Jul 19 17:35:29 Is it bad news if I can actually read this: 4cb86b4c3fe689de66280df08b97df23 ? Jul 19 17:35:49 no, it's good news Jul 19 17:35:56 because you're a genius Jul 19 17:36:11 :-) Jul 19 17:36:22 or 'special' Jul 19 17:36:33 depends what you mean by 'read' Jul 19 17:36:44 it doesn't look like ascii Jul 19 17:37:00 four-c-b-8-6-b-4-... Jul 19 17:37:00 not utf-8 either Jul 19 17:37:22 calamous, cjb_ie: I'm italian Jul 19 17:37:26 ~rot13 4cb86b4c3fe689de66280df08b97df23 Jul 19 17:37:26 4po86o4p3sr689qr66280qs08o97qs23 Jul 19 17:37:26 4po86o4p3sr689qr66280qs08o97qs23 Jul 19 17:37:30 I believe it's md5, which means it could be several things. Jul 19 17:37:31 lol Jul 19 17:37:38 calamous: there's no need to have heath insurance here. Jul 19 17:37:47 bedboi: wow, I'm moving :) Jul 19 17:37:50 ewanm89_laptop, good guess :) Jul 19 17:37:57 ~md5 4cb86b4c3fe689de66280df08b97df23 Jul 19 17:37:58 d5ce110f2fdf9e62687b871716572513 Jul 19 17:37:58 d5ce110f2fdf9e62687b871716572513 Jul 19 17:38:01 or maybe it's some new root key to some hddvd format or so Jul 19 17:38:14 in my city you can also do sex change surgery (don't know the medical term) for free Jul 19 17:38:14 ireland used to have affordable health insurance, but now they're modelling it after the US system... Jul 19 17:38:20 xkr47: I'm pretty sure it's md5 ;) Jul 19 17:38:34 Dmitry_Platonov: http://rian.ru/technology/innovation/20070518/65722212.html Jul 19 17:38:35 cjb_ie: sorry to hear that. It sucks here. Jul 19 17:38:40 i guess that's because the governor of my region is homosexual Jul 19 17:38:43 yeah, it could be something like "yeah ewanm89_laptop we know" Jul 19 17:38:44 calamous: yeah Jul 19 17:38:44 well it certainly is 32 characters of hex chars, that's for sure Jul 19 17:39:06 calamous: i'm not jocking. You can be as sick as you want. Jul 19 17:39:08 yeah, it could be something like "yeah we know ewanm89_laptop" Jul 19 17:39:15 ScaredyCat: I told you I could read it. Jul 19 17:39:20 The GPS standard is published - apart from the P(Y) code. Jul 19 17:39:21 SpeedEvil, you speak russian? Jul 19 17:39:22 Dmitry_Platonov: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 17:39:23 bedboi: I believe you. the health care here sucks Jul 19 17:39:34 Dmitry_Platonov: no - It was a wikipedia link. Jul 19 17:39:34 everyone could :) Jul 19 17:39:38 calamous: and btw i don't know how is to live in a country without health care Jul 19 17:39:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Explaining_carriers_versus_phones]] [[Documentation]] [[Supported_Hardware]] [[Talk:P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page]] Jul 19 17:39:43 I can't find the original english article that I had. Jul 19 17:39:45 Dimitry: Ya goveru po-russky Jul 19 17:39:47 ScaredyCat, heh Jul 19 17:39:56 so it was just a check on who reads the scrollback :) Jul 19 17:40:05 calamous: now i'm in the process of finding some insurance for me (i'm on j-1 visa) Jul 19 17:40:07 or who reads what I say Jul 19 17:40:13 :-) Jul 19 17:40:22 SpeedEvil, article says "Civil Signals". Long code is military signal Jul 19 17:40:31 bedboi: its going to be difficult here, sorry Jul 19 17:40:31 I didn't, I just read the hex utput. Jul 19 17:40:41 s/ut/out/ Jul 19 17:40:42 ewanm89_laptop meant: I didn't, I just read the hex output. Jul 19 17:40:46 yeah, that's right Jul 19 17:41:02 Dmitry_Platonov: ah - right. Jul 19 17:41:08 s/ Jul 19 17:41:08 [2007-07-19 18:34:27] mokobot: md5 yeah we know ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 17:41:08 [2007-07-19 18:34:29] 4cb86b4c3fe689de66280df08b97df23 Jul 19 17:41:11 oops Jul 19 17:41:11 SpeedEvil, GLONASS standart is published too, apard from precision code. Jul 19 17:41:25 SpeedEvil: if you had a choice, would you take NHS or an American HMO? Jul 19 17:41:32 nhs Jul 19 17:41:34 DukeOfUrl: NHS. Jul 19 17:41:35 NHS Jul 19 17:41:36 ny time Jul 19 17:41:39 any Jul 19 17:41:47 DukeOfUrl: especially as I would be unable to pay for a HMO at this time. Jul 19 17:42:01 oh stop discussing health insurance :--) Jul 19 17:42:06 ok, one small question regarding mokomakefile... I finished building my system. Now I'd like to flash my qemu. make flash-qemu-local should do that but it seems I'm missing one step since even if the system is built, the images to be flashed are not yet generated. what makefile command am I missing ? Jul 19 17:42:10 American HMO's exist to make money, not help sick people. They will do everything to NOT give you the treatment you paid for Jul 19 17:42:29 but NHS is widely viewed to be about the worst state run system ever Jul 19 17:42:44 Atleast their heart is in the right position Jul 19 17:43:00 intentions dont count much, results do Jul 19 17:43:01 buz: why? Jul 19 17:43:05 it's not... by any stretch of the imagination Jul 19 17:43:12 http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/17#20070717-sick-not-insane <-- shit.. That's a hell of blog post. Jul 19 17:43:12 NHS employs more than 1 million people right? Jul 19 17:43:17 didn't noticed :) Jul 19 17:43:18 buz: that's not at all reflected in actual mortality rates etc in the UK. Jul 19 17:43:40 thats partly because the uk has started to actually send patients to continental europe Jul 19 17:43:48 .. Jul 19 17:43:56 because they dont have the capacity to treat them at home Jul 19 17:43:57 no. Jul 19 17:43:57 that's not the nhs' fault Jul 19 17:44:02 that's the government Jul 19 17:44:12 where's the difference? Jul 19 17:44:23 hit your government target you get money, don;t you wont Jul 19 17:44:32 the UK has (current) life expectancy at 79 years, the US has 77 Jul 19 17:44:44 so, the UK makes people healthier, and doesn't charge them any money. Jul 19 17:44:50 what's your point? Jul 19 17:44:52 us has the highest health costs per capita in the world Jul 19 17:44:52 some still don;t hit their targets buut do a bloody good job, that's the difference Jul 19 17:45:14 people pay money thru taxes Jul 19 17:45:18 and the per capita health costs are a lot higher than elsewhere in the world... Jul 19 17:45:20 hahahaha Jul 19 17:45:27 we need health-care application for the openmoko? 8) Jul 19 17:45:31 toprate of taxx in nl is 50% Jul 19 17:45:36 Dmitry_Platonov: yes Jul 19 17:45:49 any you still have to pay for health insurance Jul 19 17:45:52 built-in scales 8))) Jul 19 17:45:54 buz: all costs considered....it still applies Jul 19 17:46:08 Markinoko I'd also want to know. - no time to find out yet - the images are not jffs though Jul 19 17:46:39 ScaredyCat: sure, but not 100% of the health costs Jul 19 17:47:01 kristian-m: I'm hapy I'm not the only one who did not find anything about that... Jul 19 17:47:07 but you don't pay any in the uk Jul 19 17:47:13 * Markinoko wonders if anyone bothered to test this... Jul 19 17:47:14 LarstiQ: Jul 19 17:47:28 * calamous tests emotes Jul 19 17:47:54 Markinoko: what were make targets you called? Jul 19 17:48:47 Kensan: make all first, then make flash-qemu-local Jul 19 17:48:49 Markinoko there is a flash.sh file in the openmoko directory in qemu-dir Jul 19 17:49:08 kristian-m: yup, it's used by make flash-qemu-local Jul 19 17:49:14 Markinoko: did you follow the instructions on the wiki? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 19 17:49:28 kristian-m: but since it does not find anything to flash... it errors out Jul 19 17:49:37 What about rumors that Global locate GPS chip will be replaced with other brand? Jul 19 17:49:50 Kensan: yes, and it seems to be a blind sopt Jul 19 17:49:52 spot Jul 19 17:49:56 Markinoko: did you issue "make build-qemu"? Jul 19 17:50:17 Kensan: the instructions on the wiki work alright when you want to used an official downloaded image Jul 19 17:50:31 to be fair, the NHS at least has a reasonably transparent system based on which treatment is done or not Jul 19 17:50:38 Kensan: make build-qemu done Jul 19 17:51:01 Kensan: I can run an official image with qemu, but not what I build locally Jul 19 17:51:30 ScaredyCat: hmm? Jul 19 17:51:45 well, directly Jul 19 17:51:59 Markinoko: did you try with "make openmoko-devel-image" instead of "make all"? Jul 19 17:52:00 I believe its something like make flash-local-qemu Jul 19 17:52:06 or something like that Jul 19 17:52:11 then make qemu-run Jul 19 17:52:14 flash-qemu-local Jul 19 17:52:20 thats it Jul 19 17:52:25 dtx: well... that's what I'm trying to say Jul 19 17:52:28 Markinoko have a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks - though it does not explain how to create the images Jul 19 17:52:56 dtx: it only flashes, doesn't build images Jul 19 17:53:20 well, you gotta issue the make openmoko-devel-image first Jul 19 17:53:28 I believe Jul 19 17:56:25 Markinoko well it seems (from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image) that you can create an jffs2 image and use it... Jul 19 17:57:07 ok, I think I get it. I built an x86 system. It's seems it's only intended to be used natively on the host. I guess building for arm target makes the images available. in my case I only have the rootfs images. Jul 19 17:57:45 kristian-m: this is the kind of links I need to build customised crap from scratch ;-) thanks Jul 19 17:59:01 ok, for those who still wonder what happened to me, I put MACHINE = "x86" in my local.conf, thus I did not get a ARM system... huhu Jul 19 17:59:13 where did the word moko come from? Jul 19 17:59:36 snot Jul 19 17:59:39 bbl -> out for food Jul 19 18:02:52 It's a contraction of the words Mobile and Kong Jul 19 18:03:07 It's designed to be the giant furry mobile phone operating system. Jul 19 18:03:15 Markinoko I thought you wanted to modify the images Jul 19 18:03:40 kristian-m: yup, but I also need to modify the kernel Jul 19 18:03:54 kristian-m: that's why I need a full emulator Jul 19 18:04:21 * SpeedEvil considers adding that to the wiki, with a little animation of a Neo1973 with furry limbs climbing the Empire State Building. Jul 19 18:04:41 kristian-m: I won't get my shiny RT kernel with only user space emulation ;-) Jul 19 18:04:55 SpeedEvil: good idea Jul 19 18:05:25 SpeedEvil: you coul also do one with a neo floating on loch ness... Jul 19 18:07:34 userspace-emulation - isn't any linux-kernel doing it that way? ;-) Jul 19 18:08:19 kristian-m: hehe, that's kind of a problem with linux actually :-) Jul 19 18:12:24 anyone have a minute to give me some advice to get my phone to boot? Jul 19 18:12:24 jfreels: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 18:15:20 jfreels: your phone? Jul 19 18:15:22 your neo? Jul 19 18:15:23 Markinoko: maybe this could also be interesting for you: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001139.html Jul 19 18:15:27 yes Jul 19 18:15:43 SpeedEvil: did you make that up? or is that really where moko came from? Jul 19 18:15:44 did you charge the battery? Jul 19 18:16:15 I got one and when I turn it on, all I see is the splash screen. When I get the new image and throw it on the SD card, it says it can't find a boot image in /boot Jul 19 18:16:39 Hmm, would it be possible to charge the phone with over 500mA ? Jul 19 18:16:50 jfreels: it takes a while to boot it, especially the first time Jul 19 18:16:54 i.e. could the charging equipment suck more amperes if it was allowed to ? Jul 19 18:17:00 (without breaking) :) Jul 19 18:17:08 Vegar: More than a few minutes? Jul 19 18:17:48 xkr47 nope. the powermanagement unit is designed to take care of charging according preprogrammed parameter Jul 19 18:18:30 ok.. just noticed the E61 I have borrowed atm has some 4-5VA charger, while moko would then have ~2.5VA (5V 500mA) Jul 19 18:18:55 also, the USB standard doesn't allow more than 500mA Jul 19 18:18:57 IIRC Jul 19 18:19:14 yeah I know.. but if you told the moko "sure.. I have a 1000mA thing connected now, go ahead!" Jul 19 18:19:35 and then a few screens with disclaimers about what can happen and "Click yes if you are really sure" Jul 19 18:19:52 ICHGFAST Fast charge current range adjustable by external resistor 0.25 2.0 A Jul 19 18:20:10 current _range_ ? Jul 19 18:20:35 ah sorry Jul 19 18:20:47 the range is 0.25-2.0A and is adjustable by external resistor Jul 19 18:20:51 well, apparently an external resistor allows you do adjust the fast charge current between 0.25 and 2.0 Jul 19 18:20:55 yeah Jul 19 18:20:58 woohahaa, slow down there jfreels... when did you get one? Jul 19 18:21:11 that sounds like one just needs to plug an digitally adjustable resistor there :-) Jul 19 18:21:48 I got one a few weeks ago, maybe longer and it has been sitting on my desk because I have not had time to play with it Jul 19 18:22:13 * ScaredyCat looks at everyone in the channel Jul 19 18:22:31 * summatusmentis makes a face when ScaredyCat's eyes get to him Jul 19 18:22:39 * xkr47 looks at ScaredyCat Jul 19 18:22:53 ~lart jfreels Jul 19 18:22:53 * apt puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at jfreels Jul 19 18:22:53 * mokobot whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that jfreels is stuck to the floor Jul 19 18:22:56 * xkr47 gives a freshly baked pizza to ScaredyCat Jul 19 18:23:01 mmmmm Jul 19 18:23:03 O_O Jul 19 18:23:38 it's just that we've been waiting for weeks to get our hands on one... Jul 19 18:23:52 he's probably one of the devs that got one for free Jul 19 18:24:01 I did get it for free Jul 19 18:24:08 we'll he's not been deving much then has he Jul 19 18:24:09 :) Jul 19 18:24:09 sorry you guys are still waiting Jul 19 18:24:49 I checked the project out of svn, but none of the documentation in there helps me get it up and running...neither does the wiki Jul 19 18:24:50 * summatusmentis is not waiting really, sort of, but he's got a contract he can't get out of forever Jul 19 18:24:52 jfreels, what revision is it? Jul 19 18:25:12 summatusmentis: how does that make a difference? Jul 19 18:25:19 ferric: cdma contract Jul 19 18:25:25 oh shiet. Jul 19 18:25:34 ferric: yeah... 1.5 years left :-/ Jul 19 18:25:41 counter Jul 19 18:25:41 (last update 2007-07-19 00:49) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 20:47:07 (0.866±0.9 days) (1761;249) Jul 19 18:25:42 i wonder if you can get gprs over t-mobile to go? Jul 19 18:25:57 I don't know... I've thought about something like that Jul 19 18:26:08 not sure, I don't have it in front of me, I took it home the other night to play with it and I left it there Jul 19 18:26:39 ScaredyCat: for instance, iirc, CoreDump|home has 2 different revisions of the noe Jul 19 18:26:43 i'll get back to you guys on the revision Jul 19 18:26:43 s/noe/neo/ Jul 19 18:26:44 summatusmentis meant: ScaredyCat: for instance, iirc, CoreDump|home has 2 different revisions of the neo Jul 19 18:26:59 jfreels, what subsystem will you develop? Jul 19 18:28:30 no clue, I am just trying to get the thing to turn on and I have very little documentation that is helping me Jul 19 18:28:55 you need documentation to turn it on ?-D Jul 19 18:29:05 * xkr47 rofls Jul 19 18:29:05 jfreels, good luck Jul 19 18:29:44 HA, no, I already explained my problem....I turn it on...I see the splash screen and it just sits there. I can connect it and send commands to it wth my linux box, but it just won't seem to get to an interface Jul 19 18:29:44 sorry guys, it sounds quite ok, but the rofl still came spontaniously nevertheless :) Jul 19 18:29:58 doh Jul 19 18:30:02 sorry I didn't read the scrollback Jul 19 18:30:11 too much text Jul 19 18:30:12 Kensan: thanks for the tip on the distro thing. could be useful too. I feel we have a very nice developpement platform there. the neo's going to be a hell of a good toy Jul 19 18:30:30 should we have a parallell channel where you talk about development only Jul 19 18:30:42 not about features, cool stuff etc Jul 19 18:30:55 jfreels: I have no idea as to the specifics of the neo, but I would assume the splash screen is a framebuffer thing, and it sounds like you're not switching from framebuffer to the GUI Jul 19 18:30:55 I dump the boot file onto the SD card and set it to boot from SD, but that fails also. And the damn error screen goes away so fast I don't really get a good look at it Jul 19 18:31:10 use a camera ?-D Jul 19 18:31:32 * xkr47 caputerd oopses many times with camera :) Jul 19 18:31:36 sorry panics Jul 19 18:32:23 jfreels: I also assume you've got the most up to date boot file on the SD? Jul 19 18:33:18 yes, I believe I do...I got it from a link off the wiki Jul 19 18:33:54 and I used my linux box to format the SD card ext2 Jul 19 18:34:12 hrm... Jul 19 18:34:12 I could see on the very quick flash of the error message that it didn't like the FAT file system Jul 19 18:34:33 so after the format, I can see something about "boot image not found in /boot" Jul 19 18:34:36 something along those lines Jul 19 18:35:05 can you link the page you are using? Jul 19 18:35:14 the one I got the image from? Jul 19 18:35:29 sure Jul 19 18:35:38 ok, let me try and dig it up Jul 19 18:36:50 this one... Jul 19 18:36:50 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest/ Jul 19 18:37:09 its linked in the wiki Jul 19 18:37:19 jfreels, are you getting a phase 1 phone for free ? Jul 19 18:38:09 I guess it's phase 1, I got it a few weeks ago. Jul 19 18:38:18 jfreels: if the boot on the neo is anything like the boot on the zaurus, you can't put that on an SD card, I don't think Jul 19 18:38:35 it has a boot from SD... Jul 19 18:39:11 when you do the AUX-Power button combo it gives you a few options...boot from SD is one of them Jul 19 18:39:52 right, but I think the format of that image is intended only to be flashed Jul 19 18:40:08 now I may be wrong, but on the zaurus, you have to create a loopback image to boot from SD Jul 19 18:40:20 hmmmm Jul 19 18:40:44 again, I'm not familiar with openmoko/neo at all, you should stick around here, but that's how I do it on a zaurus Jul 19 18:41:31 okay, i'll keep playing around with it. When/if I figure it out, i'll post it somewhere to help some other poor soul who has to go through this Jul 19 18:41:49 is there a way to flash this image to the neo? Jul 19 18:42:00 yes, I could try that Jul 19 18:42:08 jfreels: Since you got it for free - did you also get the debug board? Jul 19 18:42:28 no, unfortunately I didn't get anything with it but the neoprene case Jul 19 18:42:35 Bummer Jul 19 18:42:37 jfreels: the .jffs2 at the end to me suggests that this image is intended for internal flashing Jul 19 18:42:39 oh, and the usb cable and the SD card Jul 19 18:42:46 a one-click refresh-the-moko-image is going to be really important soon Jul 19 18:43:40 cool, I'll give that a try tonight then. I just figured i'd try and get it to boot from SD before flashing it Jul 19 18:44:04 jfreels: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Jul 19 18:44:08 and I do believe I have the phase 1...phase 0 is the orange one I believe...I have the black one Jul 19 18:44:21 summatusmentis hm uboot should be able to boot from sd card Jul 19 18:44:42 jfreels: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Jul 19 18:44:56 woglinde: but with a .jffs2 image? Jul 19 18:45:51 jfreels: look at step 2 on the booting from sd page I linked you, the file you need to download needs to end in .tar.gz not .jffs2 Jul 19 18:46:49 that's just untaring the archive...i'll download it and see what's in it Jul 19 18:46:57 ???? Jul 19 18:47:46 woglinde: what's the '????' for? am I way off base? Jul 19 18:48:35 i'll be back tomorrow guys, I got a meeting in 10, gotta have a cig first. Thanks for your help sammatusmentis Jul 19 18:48:53 jfreels: sure thing, I think you untar the rootfs to the sd card Jul 19 18:48:55 good luck Jul 19 18:48:59 thanks! Jul 19 18:49:25 summatusmentis no was for jfreels to because of the untar Jul 19 18:49:33 woglinde: oh, ok Jul 19 18:50:05 it would be nice to have a moko and no time to play with it :/ Jul 19 18:50:15 well, he's right, it was untar'ing an image Jul 19 18:50:20 ferric did you order one? Jul 19 18:50:24 woglinde: yep Jul 19 18:50:37 ferric it will come Jul 19 18:51:00 it'd be nice to have coding skills so I wouldn't have all this time, and I could do something useful instead of lurking Jul 19 18:51:02 absolutely Jul 19 18:51:24 summatusmentis: don't waste time, the only way to learn how to write code is to write code Jul 19 18:51:56 ferric: I know... I guess I get discouraged easily, and most of the code needing to be written now is way above my level Jul 19 18:52:48 but on my new MacBook I'll have room to setup openmoko under qemu :-) Jul 19 18:53:11 heh heh Jul 19 18:53:19 summatusmentis I learned best too look at other code Jul 19 18:53:56 rememebr the linux ipv6 stack was written by a guy that came on irc and kept asking stupid questions till he became good enough to have production code. Jul 19 18:54:09 (or, something like that anyway :) Jul 19 18:54:12 lol Jul 19 18:54:23 woglinde: I know... but currently I have very little HD space Jul 19 18:54:36 and ... well, I get discouraged easily :-) Jul 19 18:54:45 hm Jul 19 18:54:48 summatusmentis: rm -rf /media/pr0n ;) Jul 19 18:54:54 buy external disk Jul 19 18:55:01 they are cheaper then neo Jul 19 18:55:06 drath: :-P Jul 19 18:55:13 woglinde: I'm due for an upgrade in a week Jul 19 18:55:25 s/a week/~a week/ Jul 19 18:55:25 summatusmentis meant: woglinde: I'm due for an upgrade in ~a week Jul 19 18:56:35 which means 40 more GB :-) Jul 19 18:56:54 oh that should be okay Jul 19 18:56:58 for openembedded Jul 19 18:57:17 I've got OE now, but I wipe my tmp every 2 weeks because I run out of room Jul 19 18:57:28 and it's a slow machine Jul 19 18:57:53 hey, I've gotta head out, good luck on you all getting your CCs charged :-) Jul 19 18:58:12 bye summatusmentis Jul 19 19:10:41 cool gallery of Tiny PCs http://www.wired.com/gadgets/pcs/multimedia/2007/07/gallery_tiny_pcs Jul 19 19:31:12 wher'es the foxboard in that don-o Jul 19 19:35:04 has anyone recieved their order yet? Jul 19 19:36:37 mintee: not P1. Jul 19 19:36:45 mintee: two people have received shipping emails. Jul 19 19:37:44 lol, 2 people Jul 19 19:37:57 :) two people that we know. Jul 19 19:38:02 don-o: "Throw in a USB hub and Bluetooth, and voilà: the world's slowest cluster. In a shoe box." - I like that quote. Jul 19 19:38:29 heh Jul 19 19:38:34 careful. openmosix developer here. i'm heavily concidering a cluster between my nokia 770 and the openmoko. ;) Jul 19 19:38:53 there aren't openmosix developers anymore, everyone knows that Jul 19 19:39:10 no. its just that moshe is no longer one of them. ;) Jul 19 19:39:24 well, it wouldn't be slow if you had enough of them :) Jul 19 19:40:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Captain_morgan]] [[User_talk:Captain_morgan]] [[AR6K]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arizona]] [[Application_UI_Design_Recommendations]] [[Supported_Hardware]] [[Explaining_carriers_versus_phones]] Jul 19 19:42:52 lol Jul 19 19:42:56 openmosix??! Jul 19 19:43:19 juri_: I expect a full 2.6 supported patch by tomorrow, ok? Jul 19 19:43:48 summatus: what kernel version is the openmoko by default? Jul 19 19:44:03 I thought it was 2.4? Jul 19 19:44:31 i have 2.6 process migration functioning on 2.6.17-x86_64, thanks to some of the remaining developers. Jul 19 19:44:42 oh really? cool Jul 19 19:44:50 I thought the only supported kernel was 2.4 Jul 19 19:44:59 not quite at a useful state.. theres still a nasty bug.. but syscalls are at least being performed nowadays. Jul 19 19:45:31 openmosix is not going to die. its just going to get stranger, as several people go in different directions with it. Jul 19 19:48:16 hrm Jul 19 19:49:28 stranger? hmm Jul 19 19:49:51 nice Jul 19 19:50:28 theres an effort to go completely user space with it, that has a lot of momentum, and theres the "stalled" 2.6 port, that recieves a patch every few weeks. i'm trying to get smart enough to contribute to the latter. ;) Jul 19 19:51:08 i'm good enough to find bugs, but not yet good enough to fix them. Jul 19 19:58:54 best of luck juri_ Jul 19 19:59:25 thanks. hopefully my openmoko won't distract me too much. :D Jul 19 20:01:27 I'm all for completely userspace Jul 19 20:02:16 juri_: get openmosix built on the neo! Jul 19 20:02:42 its on my todo list. just very far down it, at the moment. :) Jul 19 20:03:36 * juri_ is installing a wikiserver inside of a qemu system, using scsi disks at the moment. seems linuxbios AND bochbios don't support scsi? ARGH... Jul 19 20:08:36 juri, you're a weirdo Jul 19 20:08:59 but he's an openmosix weirdo Jul 19 20:09:34 lol Jul 19 20:09:54 which puts him a step above all the regular weirdos Jul 19 20:10:29 hi Jul 19 20:11:24 300 dollar what in euro Jul 19 20:11:36 Speedevil? Jul 19 20:11:47 is that around 280 euro Jul 19 20:12:17 what about shipping costs in euro Jul 19 20:12:18 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=300+dollar+in+euro&btnG=Google-Suche&meta= Jul 19 20:12:20 google 300 usd in euro Jul 19 20:12:39 echo :) Jul 19 20:12:41 217 euro Jul 19 20:12:42 300*0.73 iirc Jul 19 20:15:40 thanks Jul 19 20:15:59 so for belgium that would be 253 euro Jul 19 20:16:09 dont know about shipping Jul 19 20:16:34 up to 172$ to europe Jul 19 20:17:00 They've gone with UPS Jul 19 20:17:05 teh charges have gone down Jul 19 20:17:28 Speedevireally Jul 19 20:17:53 Speedevil: really cheaper shipping Jul 19 20:18:21 yes much cheapher shipping Jul 19 20:18:25 overnight went fron 81 to 37usd Jul 19 20:19:20 shit i paid 172$ :( Jul 19 20:19:29 cel, you ain't paid nothing yet Jul 19 20:19:37 cool. They're not shipping, but they're certainly working on things. Jul 19 20:19:52 galexandre: thats true ;) Jul 19 20:20:10 and given that I'll likely have to pay customs... I apprciate their effort. Jul 19 20:21:53 kero: me too (450+172)*1,2 Jul 19 20:22:29 I've got order ticket #4060 - which was the first one? Jul 19 20:22:48 #1820 Jul 19 20:22:58 1,2 for customs europe? Jul 19 20:22:59 titi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 20:23:18 20% Jul 19 20:23:24 K Jul 19 20:23:49 is that to be incalculated for europe Jul 19 20:23:52 ferric: So about 2000 phones are already sold? Jul 19 20:23:53 VAT Jul 19 20:24:02 ok Jul 19 20:24:16 quickdev: that's impossible to tell Jul 19 20:24:19 unless you're FIC :) Jul 19 20:24:28 so 3OO and 172 divided by 1,2 Jul 19 20:24:54 I hope I will get mine in a week :) Jul 19 20:25:07 mokobot (300+172)*1,2= Jul 19 20:25:22 thats is 413 euro Jul 19 20:25:29 for the basic model Jul 19 20:25:46 wowi could have a htc touch sp Jul 19 20:25:59 smartphone for that price Jul 19 20:26:16 sure about the 1,2vat? Jul 19 20:26:35 I Jul 19 20:26:55 ok Jul 19 20:27:39 (300+172)*1,2=566,4 Jul 19 20:27:45 So... is the Phase 2 phone really going to have all that stuff? It seems like it will be much much better than the current one? Jul 19 20:27:55 in austria we got 20% vat Jul 19 20:27:56 Also, $70 shipping to the UK? eh? Jul 19 20:27:57 ok G2 version with 4OO CPU and wifi and 256 RAM what is really strong hardware Jul 19 20:28:16 ok same as for belgium Jul 19 20:28:33 but there is a chaeper shipping available Jul 19 20:28:48 what about an upgrade for the GA Jul 19 20:28:58 G1 to G2 MOO Jul 19 20:29:01 MOBO Jul 19 20:29:05 All the shipping options were $70 or more, the last time I checked Jul 19 20:29:13 I'll have another look Jul 19 20:29:36 172$ was on the 9. ups worldwide express plus Jul 19 20:30:02 shipping WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED $ 50.29 USD $ 350.30 USD Jul 19 20:30:03 SAVER $ 52.63 USD $ 352.63 USD Jul 19 20:30:03 WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS $ 54.22 USD $ 354.22 USD Jul 19 20:30:03 WORLDWIDE_EXPRESS_PLUS $ 86.00 USD $ 386.00 USD Jul 19 20:30:22 for the basic model Jul 19 20:30:25 said :: yes much cheapher shipping Jul 19 20:30:39 ah it's down to $50 now Jul 19 20:30:49 That;s a bit better, though not cheap :) Jul 19 20:30:49 entirely depends on where you are located Jul 19 20:31:08 $50 for the UK, anyway Jul 19 20:31:18 what would be the shipping for belgium? anyone from belgium Jul 19 20:31:39 ps G1 to G2 MOBO replacement possible??? Jul 19 20:31:50 shipping to .nl was very similar, if not the same as .be: $71 when I ordered on the 9th Jul 19 20:31:55 do you know what's the shipment price in the USA? Jul 19 20:32:24 bedboi: start the order process, it will tell you Jul 19 20:32:28 Kero that would be 50 usd now Jul 19 20:32:37 I think I'll wait for the phase 2, seems like the software is very rough at the moment. Is there an active development forum anywhere, so I can see how stuff is going? Jul 19 20:33:03 goki: planet.openmoko.org has blog postings about development Jul 19 20:33:10 kero 36 euro for be shipping Jul 19 20:33:20 is that possible ??? Jul 19 20:33:49 dunno :) Jul 19 20:34:53 there is no way to order without a credit card for now, right? Jul 19 20:36:39 titi: yes. ok, good to know. I would pay either way. Jul 19 20:37:43 ulmen not at the moment Jul 19 20:37:46 everyone will get their phones, sooner or later. Jul 19 20:38:06 ulmen if we are lucky there will be a very limited amount of phones for sale at the camp Jul 19 20:38:15 hrw, ping Jul 19 20:39:00 he roh Jul 19 20:39:05 hey woglinde Jul 19 20:39:37 roh: funny, i'm not coming to the camp since my lift drops out, and thought about spending the money on a neo instead ;) Jul 19 20:39:54 ;) Jul 19 20:39:58 hehe lol Jul 19 20:40:10 wait for oktober Jul 19 20:40:30 what camp is it? Jul 19 20:40:30 and since my current cellphone is about to fall apart, the need for a new one arose Jul 19 20:40:41 don-o: boy scout camp Jul 19 20:40:55 don-o: chaos communication camp in germany Jul 19 20:41:05 ulmen than wait for oktober Jul 19 20:41:06 ulmen its a development device. its not ready as a usable phone atm. Jul 19 20:41:10 * Kero ponders, what info will he need to be able to do some of this call/pim/dbus thinking/programming... Jul 19 20:41:23 copy of the mailing lists, easily downloaded. Jul 19 20:41:26 ulmen you will not be lucky with gta04 Jul 19 20:41:33 ups gta01v4 Jul 19 20:41:44 Kero: im wondering the same thing. Jul 19 20:41:48 i intend to be happy with gta01v4 :) Jul 19 20:41:49 dbus software, got some. Jul 19 20:41:50 Kero: dbus documentation, mostly. Jul 19 20:41:56 imagination? Jul 19 20:42:13 * Kero made some dbus stuff in RUby a few months ago. Jul 19 20:42:26 a think wad of euros? Jul 19 20:42:30 s/think/thick/ Jul 19 20:42:30 don-o meant: a thick wad of euros? Jul 19 20:42:43 roh: i am a developer, even for embedded ... but maybe you are right Jul 19 20:42:49 it managed to parse the dbus events from hal and esd; not too bad. Jul 19 20:43:13 nice. Jul 19 20:43:23 ulmen, don't listen to him, i think we need more ambitious developers who believe it's a real phone already Jul 19 20:43:43 the p1 will be my primary/only cell phone Jul 19 20:43:50 should probably spend the next our to see whether I can talk dbus *to* something else :) Jul 19 20:44:21 galexande: indeed i think real world usage is the best thing to test it ... and i'm not very dependent on my phone either ;) Jul 19 20:44:56 mm, gonna read LWN first... Jul 19 20:49:46 C U around Jul 19 21:36:28 mokobot: uptime Jul 19 21:37:58 ewanm89_laptop: it seems mokobot doesn't want to talk to you... that's kind of rude Jul 19 21:38:09 is there a rude plugin now for bots ? Jul 19 21:38:17 :) Jul 19 21:38:22 Markinoko: It talked fine as it should. Jul 19 21:38:45 ewanm89_laptop: private answer ? Jul 19 21:39:04 Just not publicly, and I'm running the bot so I could just read it's scrollback anyway. Jul 19 21:39:19 Yes PM. Jul 19 21:39:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Userspace_root_image]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Media_Content/ar]] [[Group_Order]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Help:Contents/ar]] [[Main_Page/ar]] [[AR6K]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Application_UI_Design_Recommendations]] Jul 19 21:54:26 * ScaredyCat slaps ewanm89_laptop a little bit Jul 19 21:54:36 hehe Jul 19 21:55:03 * mokobot moos at ScaredyCat, courtesy of ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 21:55:20 * mokobot hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at woglinde, courtesy of ewanm89_laptop Jul 19 21:55:31 ~lart mokobot Jul 19 21:55:31 * mokobot beats scaredycat to within 2.54cm of his life Jul 19 21:55:31 * apt shoots mokobot in his sleep Jul 19 21:56:23 !googlefight apt vs mokobot Jul 19 21:56:36 booo!! Jul 19 21:57:22 * mwester wonders if people have grown so lazy that they have bots do the IRC battles *FOR* them... :p Jul 19 21:57:27 strange that lots of places in europe are way to hot and the uk is flooding... Jul 19 21:57:59 ScaredyCat: what do you mean by "flooding" ? Jul 19 21:58:09 water quickdev Jul 19 21:58:16 :P Jul 19 21:58:30 too much of it Jul 19 21:58:49 sorry :P in which coherence? Jul 19 21:59:04 ~lart quickdev Jul 19 21:59:04 * apt whips out his power stapler and staples quickdev's foot to the floor Jul 19 21:59:05 * mokobot slaps quickdev upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh Jul 19 22:00:00 oh crap... Jul 19 22:00:01 lol Jul 19 22:00:13 I just watched tivo'd news Jul 19 22:00:16 ah...you're talking of much rain - lol :D Jul 19 22:01:01 night Jul 19 22:01:10 nite Jul 19 22:01:39 Anyone else know of any billing updates? Jul 19 22:01:57 there are none I'm afraid calamous Jul 19 22:02:11 * calamous lets out a sigh of disapointment Jul 19 22:02:31 * ScaredyCat vented a bit on the community list Jul 19 22:09:00 * don-o reads rant Jul 19 22:09:43 plural don-o :) Jul 19 22:09:44 I recently got some specs for a cordless phone for the military that costs $2k (no Im not kidding), the main feature is it support 3072 bit key exchange for encryption between handset, openmoko might want to look at selling a service ie "key exchange" as a income stream Jul 19 22:10:14 Well, yeah, theoretically we could encrypt conversations, ay? Jul 19 22:10:24 yeah via a gpg key Jul 19 22:10:31 Markinoko have you created your own kernel image yet? (see: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot#Creating_bootable_images) Jul 19 22:10:32 dumb idea Jul 19 22:10:33 I don't think you can over the GSM, not with that module Jul 19 22:10:49 just use the existing routines in openssl... magic key exchange Jul 19 22:10:49 hi Jul 19 22:11:13 aria: you could use sms to send the key level stuff, then do a standard audio call.. nyet? Jul 19 22:11:15 mmazur: yes - with data mode GSM calls, or GPRS Jul 19 22:11:19 well openmoko could offer a key exchange service Jul 19 22:11:24 juri_: No. Jul 19 22:11:26 yes, but not a good idea Jul 19 22:11:31 Aria, probable. The gsm module might be directly connected to the micset via the mixer, with no possibility of feeding anything else to it. Jul 19 22:11:40 juri_: yuou can't send non-voice-like data through the modem. Jul 19 22:11:42 Aria, but if not, then we're free to encrypt. Jul 19 22:11:48 The GSM codec throws it away. Jul 19 22:11:55 It does? :) Jul 19 22:11:57 the real magic is finding a good compressor that can squish voice into about 3kbps, and then coding that as tones Jul 19 22:12:03 You have to make a data call, use GPRS, or do _horrid_ hacks. Jul 19 22:12:07 And you can't use tones Jul 19 22:12:13 tones that would be passed via gsm or something Jul 19 22:12:24 There isn't such a thing. Jul 19 22:12:24 that would of course qualify as a horrid hack Jul 19 22:12:26 ckuethe, so technically it's doable? Jul 19 22:12:30 At significant bitrates. Jul 19 22:12:40 well the military would love a mobile phone with encryption built in, they are paying $2k just for a domestic unit Jul 19 22:12:41 The codec is designed to throw away non-voice-like noise. Jul 19 22:13:00 What you have to do is to feed the data bits to a human throat model. Jul 19 22:13:11 And then basically do voice recognition on the other end. Jul 19 22:13:11 so we need to spend some time producing audio "symbols" that would pass. Jul 19 22:13:12 SpeedEvil, and music? Jul 19 22:13:23 1300 bits/sec has been gotten via this method. Jul 19 22:13:23 It doesn't even do music? Jul 19 22:13:38 Ouch. Jul 19 22:13:40 Consider how distorted music is over GSM Jul 19 22:13:52 Anyway it was just and idea so the openmoko guys can make a few extra bucks Jul 19 22:13:55 They've thought it well I see. Jul 19 22:14:19 Linux_Galore: i'm unlikely to pay for that Jul 19 22:14:44 i'd only "buy" crypto i had the source for, and it has to be significantly usable Jul 19 22:14:51 ie. every openmoko phone can do it Jul 19 22:14:52 ckuethe: your thinking of yourself, Im talking military and company execs who dont want shit out in the public Jul 19 22:14:58 Ok, bed time. Will test that music-through-gsm tomorrow. Jul 19 22:15:19 yeah, i think they've learned that closed crypto doesn't really work too well Jul 19 22:15:54 i find it highly improbable that an openmoko would gain the necessary certifications to be used in a military/gov't security context Jul 19 22:16:01 No. Jul 19 22:16:08 But one-time-pads work just fine. Jul 19 22:16:08 the GSM built in crypto has a master key in every country Jul 19 22:16:28 And you can store a pretty large pad in a several gig SD Jul 19 22:16:35 and for a company exec shelling out for a $450 smartphone, they'll want the security to be built in already Jul 19 22:16:43 the USA I would bet has a copy of every master key Jul 19 22:16:53 yeah, all 8 master keys. Jul 19 22:16:58 It's trivial to build it in - if you are willing to add data calls only. Jul 19 22:17:09 Which is fine for some. Jul 19 22:17:10 the key is negotiated between the handset and the base Jul 19 22:17:24 all the fun tapping happens at the base Jul 19 22:17:24 Linux_Galore: and why would they have that? Jul 19 22:17:34 ckuethe: its well known that the USA sells technical information it gets from companies based outside of the US to their own local companies Jul 19 22:17:38 and the A5 cipher isn't terribly strong anyway Jul 19 22:17:45 One-time-pad++ Jul 19 22:17:56 and vice versa. us companies get snooped by foreigns Jul 19 22:18:09 ckuethe: thus cryptop Jul 19 22:18:16 crypto* Jul 19 22:18:22 A gigabyte of pad gives you days of calling. Jul 19 22:18:24 thus cryptophone, whose source you can read. Jul 19 22:19:06 ckuethe: you can read the source all you want the keys are not in there Jul 19 22:19:32 after a risk assessment wherein it is determined that i need a cryptophone, my security consultant is likely to also inform me of the possibility of back doors. Jul 19 22:20:02 keys can be generated on the fly Jul 19 22:20:23 ckuethe: yes and they mean nothing thus the key exchange Jul 19 22:20:41 sample LSBs from the microphone, the temperature sensor, the accelerometers, gps... lots of random bits Jul 19 22:21:02 use those to drive openssl to do some kind of key exchange Jul 19 22:21:31 i fail to see where openmoko would have a market for a key exchange app Jul 19 22:21:42 The problem isn't with the crypto. Jul 19 22:21:44 with DH, you could do it over SMS Jul 19 22:21:47 The problem is with the data. Jul 19 22:22:00 If you can send data, crypto is easy. Jul 19 22:22:00 just as long as you do MITM-detection Jul 19 22:22:08 ckuethe: well these military phones Im looking at can do their own key exchange the users just need to be in close range when they register each other keys Jul 19 22:22:12 SpeedEvil: indeed. Jul 19 22:22:19 But GPRS has _horrible_ lag. Which is only really adequate for push-talk. Jul 19 22:22:35 And data calls typically cost more and have to be enabled. Jul 19 22:22:37 ah, then the feature these phones offer is not so much confidentiality as authenticity Jul 19 22:22:51 i can set up a private call with anyone i like... easy Jul 19 22:23:02 ckuethe: well with a domestic unit there is nothing right now Jul 19 22:23:03 being sure that i'm talking to who i think i am... harder Jul 19 22:23:22 but with bluetooth or wifi, that becomes a trivial task Jul 19 22:23:44 here, push this button, put your phones in a metal box, and wait a minute Jul 19 22:24:01 the right way is near-field communication. Jul 19 22:24:06 With a range of centimeters. Jul 19 22:24:12 Rather than putting them in a box. Jul 19 22:24:30 maybe over audio? Jul 19 22:24:39 mic-speaker crossover cable? Jul 19 22:24:57 though i'd be worried more about tempest attacks then Jul 19 22:25:06 For the two-phone case, you could just put them 'head to tail' Jul 19 22:25:12 and do the accoustic-coupler thing. Jul 19 22:25:25 With minimum energy to actually recieve. Jul 19 22:25:29 ah... set security level 69 Jul 19 22:25:33 And lots of confounding signa. Jul 19 22:25:55 make sure the gsm blob is turned off. those things are way noisy Jul 19 22:30:27 This the is phone -> http://gigaset.siemens.com/shc/cds/frontdoor/0,1935,hq_en_0_136412_rArNrNrNrN_1%253A136412,00.html Jul 19 22:31:52 looks like it uses landlines though Jul 19 22:32:09 which have way higher bandwidth and better latency Jul 19 22:32:20 a brief of the phone -> http://gigaset.siemens.com/shc/0,1935,hq_en_0_136328_rArNrNrNrN,00.html Jul 19 22:32:25 can someone tell me which device file is the touchscreen pointer? I've tried cat and od to output /dev/input/event?, /dev/input/mice and /dev/input/touchscreen0 but none give anything Jul 19 22:32:25 kinscore: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 19 22:32:59 no has done an unpacking/unboxing video of an openmoko Jul 19 22:33:10 Check /var/adm/X*log Jul 19 22:33:12 maybe Jul 19 22:33:17 or might it be /dev/mouse Jul 19 22:33:20 pushing 28k8 between analog modems over PSTN is easy Jul 19 22:33:36 and you can fit gobs of crypto and voice into 28k8 Jul 19 22:34:01 If you've got a data channel, the rest is easy. Jul 19 22:34:18 Im thinking if we can make the openmoko "more secure" it gives it an advantage Jul 19 22:34:33 *a good enough data channel Jul 19 22:34:38 yeah Jul 19 22:34:44 thanks, SpeedEvil, I'll try that soon Jul 19 22:34:44 RFC1149 won't cut it. Jul 19 22:35:09 we can put data over the voice channel... maybe not enough to matter though Jul 19 22:35:22 we can put data over the data channel... but probably too laggy to matter Jul 19 22:35:33 You can get to 1.3kbits/s - aha - now I have logs I can maybe dig up that paper. Jul 19 22:35:44 we can put data over wifi... but that requires too much IP infrastructure to matter Jul 19 22:35:47 The 1.3kbits/s paper Jul 19 22:36:11 i'd be ok with a PTT cryptophone that didn't make me use a data plan Jul 19 22:38:18 back later... Jul 19 22:46:07 kinscore try /dev/input/touchscreen0 Jul 19 22:58:13 SpeedEvil: just saw your edit to the wiki... They can block your SIM just because you are using a non-3G phone? Jul 19 22:58:43 cesarb: I have not had it done to me, however it was commonly known on the forums of people using it at that time. Jul 19 22:58:48 Basically. Jul 19 22:58:58 Almost all their profit is based on '3G' services. Jul 19 22:59:09 For example, video clips, ... Jul 19 22:59:25 They use other peoples networks to infill where there is no 3G Jul 19 22:59:32 (this is for '3' in the UK) Jul 19 22:59:47 so it actually costs them much more to provide it. Jul 19 23:00:09 This may have changed since a year or so ago. Jul 19 23:00:15 same for '3' in ireland though i haven't heard of them blocking sims here. Jul 19 23:00:22 This is the same provider that did 3G phones with glued-in-phones. Jul 19 23:00:26 err Jul 19 23:00:31 s/phones/SIMs/ Jul 19 23:00:44 and they don't do sim packs. Jul 19 23:00:50 Which - to be fair - the phones were sold to end users at a _vast_ discount. Jul 19 23:01:11 And people simply buying for resale in third countries was a problem. Jul 19 23:01:38 s/people/buisnesses/. Jul 19 23:08:45 why do people have to make sites with flash... Jul 19 23:09:03 So that you can easily skip the ads without installing any extra softwar? Jul 19 23:09:13 Er, software... Jul 19 23:09:21 the link to the flash memory page/manual at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware is dead Jul 19 23:09:34 and the site is so flash-heavy I cannot find it Jul 19 23:09:42 Oh yeah. Jul 19 23:09:48 Samsung recently fucked up their site. Jul 19 23:10:09 (of course, there is no flash for more modern machines like x86-64, so I cannot install it even if I want to, unless I do ugly kludges) Jul 19 23:10:12 is there an equivalent part from another manufacturer? Jul 19 23:10:45 cjb_ie: I'm not interested in equivalent parts, I want to update the link on the page (and download a copy for safekeeping) Jul 19 23:11:01 often when developing hardware i find it helpful to have a datasheet for a workalike part Jul 19 23:11:04 oh, fair enough. Jul 19 23:11:04 what's the URL? my browser does flash... :') Jul 19 23:11:23 mellon: http://www.samsung.com/products/semiconductor/NANDFlash/SLC_SmallBlock/512Mbit/K9F1208U0B/K9F1208U0B.htm Jul 19 23:11:40 wow. you weren't kidding. Jul 19 23:11:56 mellon: I would like to find the page for K9F1208U0B and the ds_k9f1208x0b_rev03.pdf file Jul 19 23:12:05 ok, looking. Jul 19 23:12:17 it's ironic that flash is preventing access to info on... flash parts :-) Jul 19 23:13:11 cjb_ie: lol Jul 19 23:13:51 http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/6/11/NANDFlash/SLC_SmallBlock/512Mbit/K9F1208U0B/ds_k9f1208x0b_rev03.pdf Jul 19 23:14:13 Is that what you wanted? Jul 19 23:14:41 wow, did they take the original url and pass it through make-a-really-really-long-url.com ? Jul 19 23:15:09 Sounds like a reasonable URL for a product set that big. Jul 19 23:15:28 Yes, it's a new endeavor from tinyurl.com - they're trying to diversify so as to avoid exposure to market fluctuations. Jul 19 23:23:22 mellon: looks great, thanks. did you find the product page? Jul 19 23:23:35 mellon: do you want to update the wiki or want to leave it to me? Jul 19 23:23:51 I found a page where I could search on the part number you gave me, and yeah, that took me to the product page. Jul 19 23:24:15 It's probably better if you do it, because I wasn't actually able to find the link you were referring to. Jul 19 23:24:16 mellon, cesarb updated the wiki Jul 19 23:24:56 ok Jul 19 23:26:25 mellon: what was updated was the datasheet url only... could you tell us also the product page url? Jul 19 23:26:41 Oof, didn't write that down. Hang on a sec. Jul 19 23:26:44 * cjb_ie bookmarks oshec.org as it actualy appears to have a copy of that datasheet Jul 19 23:30:43 I updated the product page on the wiki. You might want to tweak those links - I just copied what you did, but it's not very pretty. Jul 19 23:30:52 That is, the links are kind of tiny... :') Jul 19 23:31:14 * SpeedEvil stabs samsung for http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/imagingsolutionRegist.do Jul 19 23:31:40 popping up a box for you to enter every form entry into when you click a form entry. Jul 19 23:31:42 t3h 3v1l Jul 19 23:31:44 _broken_ Jul 19 23:31:45 mellon: cool, thanks Jul 19 23:31:47 np Jul 19 23:32:12 On safari that link resize the main browser window! :'O Jul 19 23:34:45 Does anyone know if there is a reduction on phase 2 for buyers of phase 1.5? Jul 19 23:34:56 otherwise I think I can only afford one or the other :) Jul 19 23:35:08 Current word is no, although there's been talk about shipping just the board (not that that would save a lot of money). Jul 19 23:35:14 yup Jul 19 23:35:25 I think if it was just board, I would go for 2 phones instead Jul 19 23:35:38 Depends on the price difference, I guess. Jul 19 23:35:41 yup Jul 19 23:35:47 You can always do something cool with the old board... :') Jul 19 23:35:56 but like you say I can't see that it would be much cheaper without the case Jul 19 23:36:13 goki: the discount is already embedded on GTA01's price Jul 19 23:36:15 Well, it would save you the cost of the LCD and other parts, so it might be worth it - you never know... Jul 19 23:36:37 cesarb: so that's why it is $300 and phase 2 $450? Jul 19 23:36:55 I am hoping that I'll be able to reuse the debug board on the phase two phone. Jul 19 23:36:57 wifi, accells, etc. more expensive processor Jul 19 23:37:18 yeah I was assuming the extra cost was because of the better hardware Jul 19 23:37:18 OTOH, if you get phase 1, you're probably smarter to wait for phase 3 rather than jumping on phase 2 anyway. Jul 19 23:37:34 phase 2 sounds much closer to what I want, either 3G or WIFI Jul 19 23:37:39 3G would be the best :) Jul 19 23:37:45 goki: partially... phase 2 also has more components Jul 19 23:37:49 mellon: I wouldn't expect them to change the debug interface - remember the problems they had getting the flexible cable designed and manufactured? now they have a working one, they won't want to change it. Jul 19 23:38:03 I hope you are right! Jul 19 23:38:24 they don't have the time to redesign that bit anyway :-) Jul 19 23:38:34 So are there many people outside FIC/openmoko working on the software now? Jul 19 23:38:51 In the U.S. at least, t-mobile is the only provider with a decently-priced IP plan, so the only upgrade to the modem that I'd care about is support for EDGE. Jul 19 23:38:58 there are over 1K unique IP downloads of MokoMakefile ... Jul 19 23:39:13 urgh, the SDRAM's product/datasheet links is also broken Jul 19 23:39:21 Yeah but I downloaded that stuff and I never even got it running ;) Jul 19 23:39:26 I'll take a look. Jul 19 23:39:32 rwhitby: I probably am responsible for 3 of these Jul 19 23:39:36 goki: you're in the minority then Jul 19 23:39:45 rwhitby: looks like my ISP's NAT changed twice these last weeks Jul 19 23:40:12 cesarb: yeah, there's probably people developing who don't use MokoMakefile too Jul 19 23:40:31 that's why I'm careful to say unique IP downloads, and not users :-) Jul 19 23:40:34 rwhitby: I got the emu thingy running, but it had multiple problems, I think I got a few icons but that was it :) Jul 19 23:40:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[User_talk:Michaelshiloh]] [[CDC_ACM]] [[Explaining_carriers_versus_phones]] [[User:Michaelshiloh]] [[P1_Owners]] Jul 19 23:41:37 i think i downloaded it from two hosts Jul 19 23:41:44 (and got it compiled on both) Jul 19 23:41:51 rwhitby: you could try counting unique /24s Jul 19 23:42:18 rwhitby: would probably give a better statistic (perhaps slightly understimating if there are two or more developers living near) Jul 19 23:42:23 cesarb: try now? Jul 19 23:42:31 it's still a good number :) Jul 19 23:43:04 * mwester is wondering how many of those IPs match addresses assigned to companies -- such as, just for example, Motorola, Nokia, etc.... Jul 19 23:43:24 I couldn't find much in the way of specs for the 3d acceleration for phase 2, does it handle openGL ES? Jul 19 23:43:42 mellon: works fine now... I hope that's the last one ;-) Jul 19 23:43:44 yeah but i dunno if it's fixed-function or programmable Jul 19 23:43:58 fixed function is pretty good for a small device Jul 19 23:44:04 as long as it isn't too slow Jul 19 23:44:05 *nod* Jul 19 23:44:18 programmable gpu's are so damn cool tho Jul 19 23:44:22 I was amazed that any ES stuff did shaders, frankly :) Jul 19 23:44:28 i think it's mandatory in es 2.0 Jul 19 23:44:32 wow Jul 19 23:45:03 "OpenGL ES 2.0 does not support the fixed function transformation and fragment pipeline of OpenGL ES 1.x." Jul 19 23:45:12 mwester: go and find out ;)+ Jul 19 23:45:13 shame the neo doesn't have a d-pad and some fire buttons :) Jul 19 23:45:30 It's got a USB port... Jul 19 23:45:33 mwester: none of those companies allow monotone through the firewall, so it's probably very few. Jul 19 23:45:39 yup and bluetooth Jul 19 23:45:55 but it would be the right shape for some buttons on the top and bottom :) Jul 19 23:46:28 it would be interesting to parse all IPs of users on this channel as well Jul 19 23:46:52 CoreDump|home: not easy, some people have cloaks Jul 19 23:47:03 I used to have one, until I lost the password :( Jul 19 23:47:09 CoreDump|home: for instance, mine is cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb Jul 19 23:47:23 so is the October date for phase 2 realistic? Jul 19 23:47:30 * CoreDump|home is cloaked as well Jul 19 23:47:31 IMO. Jul 19 23:47:35 Hardware - maybe. Jul 19 23:47:42 * cjb_ie 's nick gives more accurate location than his IP Jul 19 23:47:43 Software - almost certainly not. Jul 19 23:47:49 yup Jul 19 23:48:17 You think there is much chance of any other software distros for the device? It seems like at least a possibility, given the reasonable hardware Jul 19 23:48:28 It's possible for sure. Jul 19 23:48:31 I wouldn't mind a NetBSD kernel for it. Jul 19 23:48:36 I mean, I have two different ARM boards at work with debian installs Jul 19 23:48:41 I rather think the software will be usable in October. Jul 19 23:48:45 (Just because I've never really figured out the Linux build system) Jul 19 23:49:07 Aria: I have doubts that enough will be available to make it worthwhile to purchase. Jul 19 23:49:08 mellon: That's because there isn't one. There's OE's, Debian's, Redhat's, PLD's... Jul 19 23:49:17 Yeah, tell me about it. Jul 19 23:49:29 To take advantage of all the hardware that is. Jul 19 23:49:33 SpeedEvil: Have you /tried/ the apps that are out there for embedded platforms? All that's really needed is integration work. Jul 19 23:49:36 It's a long while since I used any handheld graphical stuff, but I remember GPE and Opie being pretty reasonable Jul 19 23:49:43 All that's missing is cell calling and GPS stuff. Jul 19 23:49:58 Aria: yes - integration work - getting them all to a consistent UI - is moderately tricky though. Jul 19 23:50:06 Nah. Jul 19 23:50:10 I was pretty interested in the raw frame buffer support that Harald (I think!) was playing with in one of the videos. Jul 19 23:50:18 If you just want to jam all apps on randomly, then that could be lots easier. Jul 19 23:50:31 Just working would be fine, it doesn't need a super fancy UI. In fact I would rather have a MUCH less fancy UI than some of the stuff being talked about on the wiki Jul 19 23:50:39 just plain clearlooks or something would be excellent Jul 19 23:51:10 Yeah, for looks the moko theme is decent. There needs to be some libfinger integration of some stuff, but it's in good shape. Jul 19 23:51:12 Without this phantom multi-touch that is suddenly going to appear without the need for any hardware support Jul 19 23:51:19 mellon: But do you really want seventeen different UIs for seventeen different apps. Jul 19 23:51:56 IMO, that's gotta be fixed before launch. Jul 19 23:51:58 The GPE stuff is REALLY close. Jul 19 23:52:07 Dunno. What I really want is something small, tight and fast, with a really clean system for doing UIs. But I don't claim that what I want is the only thing one might want... :') Jul 19 23:52:10 REtheming makes it seem more integrated than my phone already is. Jul 19 23:53:08 Some of the screenshots look really good, but others seem a little odd, like the stuff where the top and bottom panes in the same app look different, and it looks like there is a movable splitpane, which I can't imagine ever using Jul 19 23:53:19 looks a little busy with lots and lots of nested frames and borders Jul 19 23:53:30 Indeed. Jul 19 23:53:35 I think there's a lot to be learned from the iPhone UI. Jul 19 23:53:41 It's _gotta_ be consistent. Jul 19 23:53:45 Yeah, that's the moko style -- the split is supposed to be list above, detail below. Jul 19 23:53:48 For end-users. Jul 19 23:54:02 Aria: yeah but does it have to have so much border on such a small screen? Jul 19 23:54:18 Aria: that might not be so bad - with a standard way to throw the split to fullscreen eitherway Jul 19 23:54:23 I'm not sure. I haven't actually used it with the moko theme in a neo shaped space yet. Jul 19 23:54:45 Yeah, possibly. Jul 19 23:54:47 Like this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/c/c4/Layout_stylus_template.png Jul 19 23:54:48 The worst possible user is one that's tried the neo, doesn't like it, and tells all their friends that it's hard to use. Jul 19 23:54:58 And if we launch too early we will get those. Jul 19 23:55:14 The actual bit that is displaying the list of contacts (the important bit) is tiny Jul 19 23:55:36 Not that the iphone is perfect, but it makes the list nearly full screen AFAIK Jul 19 23:55:58 Yeah, they do a good job of that. Jul 19 23:56:00 One way that might help is to be able to drag the 'find' box up or down with a finger. Jul 19 23:56:00 it's ok in that screenshot with maybe 10 people, but with 100 it will be a huge pain to scroll through Jul 19 23:56:19 SpeedEvil: wait for o-hand to merge their UI rewrite, it's sweet Jul 19 23:56:23 Part of the consideration is to keep the top panel visible when the keyb pops up. Jul 19 23:56:25 with inertial scrolling and all Jul 19 23:56:44 AIUI Jul 19 23:56:55 SpeedEvil: yeah that makes sense, but the list could get smaller when the KB appears Jul 19 23:57:17 SpeedEvil: plus you probably don't need totype when you are looking for a contact Jul 19 23:57:35 True. I was meaning in general. Jul 19 23:57:40 The icons and the actual artwork look nice though Jul 19 23:57:46 Thouhg consider typing the name of the contact Jul 19 23:57:56 and stopping when you can pick it with the stylus Jul 19 23:57:59 SpeedEvil: yup like an autocomplete thing Jul 19 23:58:35 Ayuh Jul 19 23:58:48 I should so implement an applet that lets you use palm gestures. Jul 19 23:59:07 I always kind of liked graffiti Jul 19 23:59:13 Me too. Jul 19 23:59:16 I think anything like that is patented though Jul 19 23:59:20 I could never get >8wpm though. Jul 19 23:59:38 And I can get >8wpm one-fingered on an upside-down keyboard Jul 20 00:00:02 I think if I was doing much typing I would get a BT keyboard Jul 20 00:00:14 I have been considering a silly multi-stroke glyph entry system to enter whole words. Jul 20 00:00:17 With hints Jul 20 00:00:19 actually that is one thing I could actually see myself using a neo for, just taking notes in meetings etc. Jul 20 00:00:31 Me too. Jul 20 00:00:33 there seem to be lots of wacky text input schemes on the wiki as well :) Jul 20 00:00:35 Stop half-way through a glyph, and you get a hint of possible competions. Jul 20 00:00:51 "go up, and an a, down and a q, ..." Jul 20 00:01:27 It doesn't take that many strokes to get to serious depths. Jul 20 00:01:38 yup, as long as you can remember the tree Jul 20 00:01:46 Indeed. Jul 20 00:02:17 Actually, if the software extends to a text editor, a (very) good web browser, and nethack, and can make calls kind of reliably, that's all I want Jul 20 00:02:19 Parts of the tree might even be common phrases - 'I'll meet you at' Jul 20 00:02:30 There was a really good article on UI design a while back that I think is very applicable: http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ Jul 20 00:02:43 that hex thing looked kind of interesting, where you stroke through letters on a hex grid Jul 20 00:02:52 Er, applicable to what was being said about ten minutes ago - sorry. Took me a while to find the link. Jul 20 00:03:01 I'm also wondering about word-glyphs on the keyboard. Jul 20 00:03:16 If you scribble a line on the keyboard, it computes the word you mean. Jul 20 00:03:33 Not a bad option Jul 20 00:03:35 Based on distances from letters, and maximal likelyhoods Jul 20 00:03:37 Hexkeyboard style Jul 20 00:03:44 Not quite. Jul 20 00:03:54 But similar. More shape-based than positional Jul 20 00:04:09 But similar. Basically using QWERTY knowledge as hints. Jul 20 00:04:14 Not really. Jul 20 00:04:39 Basically positional, but hopefully with good error tollerance. Jul 20 00:05:00 And it'd probably be logical only to enable it for the commonest few hundred words. Jul 20 00:05:05 SpeedEvil: there is a thing which does arithmetic-coding like for text input... Jul 20 00:05:11 Dasher. Jul 20 00:05:15 SpeedEvil: yep Jul 20 00:05:32 Yeah - despite the hype - it's _not_ optimal. Jul 20 00:05:42 Unless you happen to have a binary finger Jul 20 00:05:53 And it requires you to stare at the screen all the time. Jul 20 00:05:55 You mean a binary digit? Jul 20 00:05:59 :) Jul 20 00:07:07 It's a bit awkward, eh? Jul 20 00:07:17 SpeedEvil: that's the FUN with the neo: how many other phones you can be _discussion new ideas for input methods_ and actually be able (at least when the thing gets shipped...) to implement and test them? Jul 20 00:07:21 For _some_ apps - it'd be ideal. Jul 20 00:07:32 Aright. Time to go Jul 20 00:07:40 If I was on a ventilator, and could only provide one bit of output, forex Jul 20 00:08:15 The contact list thing one scrollback page above... how about a hierarchical phonebook? (click on "Friends", "School", and the friend you want... all with name AND PICTURE) Jul 20 00:08:32 There are groups Jul 20 00:08:50 * cesarb gets impatient because of that... so many possibilities, so long for it to actually arrive! Jul 20 00:08:55 I think that's the icon on the right of the bar Jul 20 00:09:02 midbar Jul 20 00:11:00 Only 2 charge e-mails so far? Jul 20 00:11:08 That we know of. Jul 20 00:11:32 I'm getting a bit paranoid - I was way too optimistic about how soon the phones would ship, and now I'm afraid UPS is going to leave it on my front stoop while I'm out of town next week... :'( Jul 20 00:11:36 That doesn't bode well. I'll have to wait 5 months at this rate Jul 20 00:11:53 Well, with practice comes ease. So maybe the third one will take less time... :') Jul 20 00:12:32 Also, they're using RT to track orders, and RT is painfully slow. So they may have shipped many more parts than have been acknowledged so far. Jul 20 00:12:39 Or not - who knows? :'} Jul 20 00:13:08 If it was many more, we'd get people saying their CC had been charged Jul 20 00:13:59 Maybe, but sometimes the information about what's been charged takes a while to make it to the credit card web site. Same day service in a nanosecond world? Jul 20 00:14:05 SpeedEvil: ...as soon as they check their credit card statements... Jul 20 00:14:26 I've checked mine twice today. :') Jul 20 00:14:36 that magicink thing is interesting Jul 20 00:14:56 Yeah, I thought so. I think some of what Apple's done with the iPhone reflects similar thinking. Jul 20 00:14:56 I think the guy underestimates just how much effort there is in creating a custom widget for every last element of a UI, though Jul 20 00:15:10 Don't be too sure. I think he just figures it's worth doing. Jul 20 00:15:33 yes, if you have the time to produce beautiful little graphs and stuff it's great, but I think some of the reason interfaces are bad is that people don't have the time, even if they know it could be done better Jul 20 00:15:37 But I'd like to figure out a way to reduce the cost. It's insane that it takes days to mock up a UI and make it work. Jul 20 00:15:54 yup Jul 20 00:16:02 xul/xbl/js Jul 20 00:16:04 I mean, it doesn't take that long to draw it - why should it take so long to make it work? I've been working on a LISP-based system for specifying UIs. Jul 20 00:16:12 well, I hate most UI toolkits, they all work pretty similarly badly Jul 20 00:16:30 mellon: well one reason it takes longer is that you need to consider all possible interactions of elements Jul 20 00:16:31 Or even http and imagemaps Jul 20 00:16:33 Agreed. I tried using Apple's UI builder - it's painful. Jul 20 00:17:04 goki: if only that were the problem. Jul 20 00:17:05 mellon: It's the difference between laying out a page and designing a stylesheet, the stylesheet needs to cope with any option at all Jul 20 00:17:21 mellon: well, it's _a_ problem, not th eonly one Jul 20 00:17:44 My experience with it is that what's hard is just getting what you can draw in pencil on a sheet of paper in ten minutes to show up on the screen and actually connect to your code. Jul 20 00:17:49 does anyone know how long the GPS takes to start giving coordinates from poweron ? Jul 20 00:17:59 What you're talking about is the step after that, and it's certainly important. Jul 20 00:18:17 psi: in principle 1s Jul 20 00:18:18 mellon: I've done some stuff on connecting data models to UI so as to easily support nice feedback and undo/redo, etc. Jul 20 00:18:20 But the faster you can go from paper to UI, the faster you can iterate through the possibilities. Jul 20 00:18:36 Cool! Jul 20 00:18:39 mellon: but my stuff doesn't really have much effect on what the UI looks like, just what it can do Jul 20 00:18:42 Psi: look at (IIRC) Hammerhead/Protocol on the wiki. Jul 20 00:18:52 What it feels like, right? That's important. Jul 20 00:18:56 Psi: that depends on a number of things. Jul 20 00:19:01 yeah Jul 20 00:19:07 Not running into unexpected dead ends makes a UI a lot more usable. Jul 20 00:19:23 mellon: yup. It means that I don't have that bad stuff where you get "old" data that doesn't update, and you can see what you are doing in real time but always be able to undo Jul 20 00:19:44 Are you working on the OpenMoko UI? Jul 20 00:19:55 mellon: actually that is one thing that REALLY pisses me off about gnome apps in general - you change something and it changes right away, but you can't undo the change Jul 20 00:20:12 gah, don't get me started. Jul 20 00:20:14 mellon: no sorry, I was just in here at random to ask about the phone :) I do UI's in Java for desktop stuff ;) Jul 20 00:20:39 Heh. Well, maybe you'll do some hacking later. :') Jul 20 00:20:51 I like non-overlapped UI's as well, and I definitely agree with the magicink guy about little graphs and stuff, they are great :) Jul 20 00:21:10 mellon: yeah hopefully, I think I will leave it a little while until phase 2 though Jul 20 00:21:33 Yeah. I like his programming by example too, although I don't think it's actually practical. Still, one can learn from it. Jul 20 00:22:07 I only had time to scan through, but I will definitely read it more thoroughly Jul 20 00:22:30 cool Jul 20 00:22:31 I'm not sure about this "most software is just for information display" thing though - most software I use isn't, but then I'm probably not typical :) Jul 20 00:22:40 None of us are, are we? Jul 20 00:22:49 That's part of why UI design is hard. Jul 20 00:22:53 yup Jul 20 00:23:15 unfortunately a lot of attempts to improve it just devolve into HIG fascism :) Jul 20 00:23:23 thus neatly ignoring anyone being different Jul 20 00:23:39 "You like the OK button on the left, because we TELL you it is the best!" Jul 20 00:24:03 "You disagree?! Fine, then read this 100 page book of guidelines!" Jul 20 00:24:35 And then they think they can get away with apps that are horrible to use, but have the buttons in the "right" places with the "right" font :) Jul 20 00:25:16 anyway, I should probably stop ranting and get some sleep :) I'm probably getting irritable from sleep deprivation :) Jul 20 00:25:20 That's why I'm still doing my development work on Macs. Jul 20 00:25:21 Night. Jul 20 00:25:23 Sleep well. Jul 20 00:25:27 night :) Jul 20 00:25:30 is there really an xorg server running? - is Xfbdev a subset or base used for the xorg? Jul 20 00:26:00 It's X with a display driver for linux framebuffer devices. Jul 20 00:26:40 right so just an X11 compatible server Jul 20 00:26:59 kristian-m: --enable-kdrive in the xorg-xserver configure script Jul 20 00:29:05 koen ah, I see kind of statically linked xorg then Jul 20 00:30:54 kristian-m: yeah Jul 20 01:24:41 (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Back from Guadec http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/20/back-from-guadec/ Jul 20 01:26:46 * happycube reads Jul 20 01:27:36 cool Jul 20 01:40:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Kernel]] [[Talk:Dialer]] [[Clocks]] [[OpenMoko]] [[QT2410]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] Jul 20 01:45:42 night Jul 20 01:45:51 'tag Jul 20 02:26:10 is minimo building for you guys currently? Jul 20 02:26:10 BryceLeo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 20 02:29:15 ooh, harsh! Jul 20 02:29:30 I'm in the process of setting up to do a build now, so I don't know. Jul 20 02:29:40 k Jul 20 02:29:47 thanks Jul 20 02:31:20 http://www.pastebin.ca/627072 is the errors that i get Jul 20 02:31:24 it happens at the assmebler Jul 20 02:31:39 i used the moko makefile and everything is all up to date Jul 20 02:32:20 oh, lame. it looks like it's not running that file through the preprocessor for some reason. Jul 20 02:32:41 This will be my first build, so I can't really offer you any concrete advice. Jul 20 02:32:53 ahh ok Jul 20 02:32:58 thanks for the help though Jul 20 02:33:27 always glad to provide my completely worthless advice... :') Jul 20 02:34:32 haha i just wanted to make sure that it was atleast failing for other people Jul 20 02:37:35 Wow, this build pulls in a really amazing amount of stuff. Jul 20 02:38:24 Doesn't it? Jul 20 02:41:20 heh, i'm just gonna build dillo (apparently that's in the OE repos) Jul 20 02:41:44 not as featureful but good enough for most browsing Jul 20 02:56:58 Why was development started with OABI instead of EABI? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 20 02:59:56 2007