**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 23 02:59:56 2007 Jul 23 03:43:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] Jul 23 04:30:32 moin Jul 23 04:42:03 jesus does themokomakefile ever end or is it some kind of sick loop joke that the openmoko team is playing Jul 23 04:43:01 what, you're not at the stage where it prints a huge smiley with its tongue out and playing a Nelsonesque "HA-HA" over your pc speaker/ Jul 23 04:43:27 holy crap this channel is getting popular Jul 23 04:43:30 hello everyone! Jul 23 04:44:07 'allo Jul 23 05:01:50 still not shipped? :-/ Jul 23 05:02:13 they ship from california Jul 23 05:02:22 its 9pm in cali on a sunday Jul 23 05:02:28 no, they havent shipped Jul 23 05:02:45 Sublime: lol, that's true. I didn't purchase one, but I was hoping there'd be more info on them once they'd shipped Jul 23 05:03:52 can anyone telll me something about the boottime of neo1973 !? Jul 23 05:03:54 lol, we all hope that but its jsut speculation now as to when they actually will ship and i guarantee once people start getting them there will be a TON more info outthere Jul 23 05:03:58 P0 Jul 23 05:04:44 how long does it take to boot? Jul 23 05:04:54 Dont feed the squirrels beer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikH9ZRcF2Q Jul 23 05:05:04 false Jul 23 05:05:13 feed squirrels as much beer as possible Jul 23 05:05:25 dont know how long it takes to boot Jul 23 05:05:54 ideally it won't take much longer than a 'normal' phone Jul 23 05:08:59 so does any dev use eclipse when working with openmoko? Jul 23 05:09:03 the guy with it running on his treo said it took about 1:30 to start Jul 23 05:09:04 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 23 05:09:41 does Jason1 have his yet? Jul 23 05:10:44 Sublime: thats what i guessed ! Jul 23 05:11:25 What cpu has treo ? Jul 23 05:12:25 312mhz intel xscale Jul 23 05:13:25 ok Jul 23 05:15:16 well its not that critical. Jul 23 05:15:58 normaly you dont shut off youre mobile phone. Jul 23 05:16:13 good point Jul 23 05:16:26 i never shut mine off Jul 23 05:16:29 but it'll be quite a bit more than a mobile phone by the time people are done with it, ideally Jul 23 05:16:32 cant remember the last time Jul 23 05:16:50 yeah, Im not fussed about the boot time, the general battery life is more important to me Jul 23 05:17:07 that is the important thing really Jul 23 05:17:08 just call it mobil kommunikator Jul 23 05:17:14 moko Jul 23 05:17:17 as long isboot time isnt like 30min i dont really care Jul 23 05:17:40 *blink* Jul 23 05:17:57 30 min ^^ Jul 23 05:18:01 you could easily decrease the boot time but then you would lose some of the flexibility Jul 23 05:18:17 i was exagerating, relax kids Jul 23 05:18:38 what about suspend2 + keep mode Jul 23 05:19:03 suspend will have to be implemented Jul 23 05:19:50 pretty easy to do though, just have the init script look for an image, if none start from scratch Jul 23 05:20:06 yeah, but with keep mode you're bascially booting as if you'd done a suspends to disk .. each time you boot Jul 23 05:20:39 then the longest boot is when you build a mew image to upgrade the device... Jul 23 05:20:55 9the same image) Jul 23 05:21:10 need to have data on a separate partition... Jul 23 05:23:33 * ScaredyCat wonders if this commute is a bit long.. :/ Jul 23 05:32:32 I have to "reboot" my phone whenever my battery gets flat (unintentionally) e.g. while calling, which I guess could happen quite often. Jul 23 05:35:05 So you use a second battery (akku) to change? Jul 23 05:45:29 How much is the SAR Value of Neo1973 ? Jul 23 05:51:56 http://www.ericsson.com/ericsson/corporate_responsibility/health/files/English/EN_Why_not_compare_sar_values_2004.pdf Jul 23 05:52:57 :-) Jul 23 06:01:41 hmmm, This is from Sony ericsson. Jul 23 06:03:05 Wow, lots of people in here. How many plan to develop for the openmoko platform? Jul 23 06:03:05 eMb: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 23 06:03:59 hmm.. quite many I suspect Jul 23 06:04:02 mokomakefile has been running for almost 3 hours now Jul 23 06:04:11 christ when will it end Jul 23 06:04:55 It builds for me in 5-6 hours on core2 duo Jul 23 06:05:12 it will fail with some inscrutable error about 3 minutes before UPS shows up with your handset. Jul 23 06:05:16 lol, guess i didnt know what i was getting myself into Jul 23 06:05:35 well 5-6 hours is hardly the 2 years im predicting Jul 23 06:06:49 I have a VMWare image set up with the MokoMakefile if you're interested Jul 23 06:09:58 nah its cool, its going on my laptop so i can let it sit and run as long as it needs Jul 23 06:10:18 what distro are you running? Jul 23 06:10:39 ubuntu fiesty Jul 23 06:14:05 good, that won't be as painful as some of the others Jul 23 06:14:51 ubutnu is the absolute shit Jul 23 06:15:21 first distro i ever used and havent found one i like more or even as much Jul 23 06:15:23 s/the// Jul 23 06:15:47 * gcb77 is an openSUSE fan Jul 23 06:16:39 * ScaredyCat agrees Jul 23 06:17:14 I like debian Jul 23 06:18:09 debian was built by alumni from my university, i have to like it or one of my ECE profs will kill me cause he helped get it out there lol Jul 23 06:18:34 XD Jul 23 06:18:42 no but seriously its a great distro too Jul 23 06:19:02 * cjb_ie wonders why his uni persists in using suse when they can't figure out how to admin it Jul 23 06:19:41 actually its really weird because my university hosts a debian repo server but all the computers in the CS department use fedora Jul 23 06:19:57 freekin traitors Jul 23 06:20:00 lol Jul 23 06:20:31 * ScaredyCat went of redhat when they decided not to bother Jul 23 06:20:40 s/of/off/ Jul 23 06:21:18 redhat was fine on my laptop but fedora was crashtacular Jul 23 06:21:24 so i moved to libranet and then to ubuntu Jul 23 06:21:36 still using ubuntu on it now Jul 23 06:21:45 legacy hardware ++ Jul 23 06:21:56 ubuntu is fine... Jul 23 06:21:59 ...if you like brown Jul 23 06:22:15 oh, i use fluxbox. legacy hardware, remember Jul 23 06:22:15 actually im using linux mint Jul 23 06:22:22 which is basically a prettier ubuntu Jul 23 06:22:31 ill see if i can get a screenshot Jul 23 06:22:36 you mean it's not brown Jul 23 06:22:39 no Jul 23 06:22:40 so it's all shades of grey for me Jul 23 06:22:43 its very nice Jul 23 06:22:55 * cjb_ie wonders if it has the brown noise for any of its system sounds. Jul 23 06:23:08 nope it doesnt Jul 23 06:23:10 * cjb_ie _may_ have watched too much south park Jul 23 06:23:24 * ScaredyCat blows raspberries Jul 23 06:23:33 lucky raspberries! Jul 23 06:23:44 arf arf Jul 23 06:24:45 http://members.cox.net/sccr182/Screenshot.jpg Jul 23 06:25:12 you're right..... Jul 23 06:25:17 ... it's not brown... Jul 23 06:26:01 no its completely different from ubuntu yet exactly the same as ubuntu all at the same time Jul 23 06:26:32 Im on Kubuntu Gutsy Jul 23 06:26:39 you mean it's brown underneath Jul 23 06:26:42 Sublime: Looks nice :) Jul 23 06:27:00 * CM|Vacation still haven't recieved any shipping information :( Jul 23 06:27:34 CM|Vacation: they took my money, finally ;) Jul 23 06:27:37 it uses all the same repos as ubuntu, its just sugar coated Jul 23 06:28:04 ScaredyCat: Hehe.. Don't be so happy for that! Let's hope they send the phones soon too.. Jul 23 06:28:25 Gutsy is definitely allot easier to use than all the other releases, more meta packages too so you dont have to stuff around with lots of odds and ends Jul 23 06:28:44 I suspect, but don't *know*, that they were packing at the weekend and will ship today (their time) Jul 23 06:28:51 i dont really see how it can be any easier to setup and use than fiesty Jul 23 06:28:59 * CM|Vacation keeps compiling and tweaking and doesn't look on the coating Jul 23 06:29:08 need ati or nvidia drivers? click install, thats it Jul 23 06:29:21 Sublime: 1 package that install java/Flash/Video Codecs Jul 23 06:29:27 installs* Jul 23 06:29:40 i thought thats what automatix was for Jul 23 06:29:43 thats what i use Jul 23 06:29:47 * ScaredyCat can't stand yast... Jul 23 06:29:51 * ScaredyCat uses smart Jul 23 06:30:03 smart install somestuff Jul 23 06:30:08 Sublime: automatix is actually not an ubuntu thing its third party so can stuff up your install Jul 23 06:30:25 i know its third party but ive never had any problems with it Jul 23 06:31:10 Sublime: KDE has a similar thing thats nicer called Kubxtra Jul 23 06:31:13 oh well, if ubuntu's works ill use that instead Jul 23 06:31:21 one less package i have to download Jul 23 06:32:07 ive been using kde in slax and knoppix, dont like it as much as gnome Jul 23 06:32:07 gives you a graphical interface to install jave/Nvidia/Flash etc Jul 23 06:32:37 I can't be the only one awake in here Jul 23 06:32:55 no Jul 23 06:32:57 Sublime: each to his own, to be honest I prefer xfce over gnome Jul 23 06:33:07 ive never used it Jul 23 06:33:38 anybody ever use sabayon? the beryl distro Jul 23 06:33:45 Sublime: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop its a prety small install, watch as your machine boots 10 seconds faster Jul 23 06:33:54 yeah ... too orange... Jul 23 06:33:58 :) Jul 23 06:34:06 i never got to the orange part Jul 23 06:34:23 when it booted it looked like every other kde desktop Jul 23 06:34:44 i got none of the sabayon icons or anything Jul 23 06:34:49 but.. it's orange from the start... Jul 23 06:34:52 run xfce (xubuntu) on a Intel Core 2 duo, boots in 5 seconds with scsi raid 5 Jul 23 06:34:57 how could you miss the orange Jul 23 06:35:06 ill tell you the story Jul 23 06:35:10 hold on its long Jul 23 06:35:41 linux_galore: unless it's a dell machine, then the scsi raid contrller takes a month to get started Jul 23 06:35:52 ScaredyCat: lol Jul 23 06:36:04 whooaaa!!! Jul 23 06:36:14 I've just been monter-spammed! Jul 23 06:36:25 I find it amusing that gnome is becoming like xfce and xfce is becoming more like gnome Jul 23 06:36:27 monster-spammed! Jul 23 06:37:12 what does monster-spamming entail? Jul 23 06:37:14 although some of the new themes for xfce are bloody awesome Jul 23 06:37:21 getting a shitload of spam Jul 23 06:37:42 oh, i thought it'd be more entertaining than that :( Jul 23 06:37:47 I checked my email, 2 messages... checked it 5 mins later and whoosh Jul 23 06:38:05 600 so far Jul 23 06:38:34 as soon as I get my shipping email I'm greylisting Jul 23 06:39:16 aside from the missing all the sabayon goodies, i realized something was wrong when it destroyed grub, completely, couldnt get into ubuntu or windows. eventually got into ubuntu screwing with grub command line, got into ubuntu and for some reason the desktop had changed to kde and there were all the sabayon icons and wallpapers. so it decided it didnt like my ubuntu install so it installed on top of it screwing with the permissions, des Jul 23 06:39:22 christ thats long Jul 23 06:39:28 ScaredyCat: you could ask people who've already got their where it came from, and whitelist that. Jul 23 06:39:56 Sublime: truncated at "screwing with the permissions, des" Jul 23 06:40:06 crap Jul 23 06:40:20 so it decided it didnt like my ubuntu install so it installed on top of it screwing with the permissions, desktop settings and even changed my firefox homepage to sabayonlinux.org Jul 23 06:40:30 hi all Jul 23 06:40:58 ... yeah but who is des? Jul 23 06:40:59 ;) Jul 23 06:41:27 alright well im going to go grab a coffee and pie Jul 23 06:41:37 later Jul 23 06:43:20 has anyone gotten shipment tracking numbers yet? Jul 23 06:43:44 jeddy3: Not me at least Jul 23 06:44:02 CM|Vacation, oh, strange Jul 23 06:44:51 I'm guessing that they take a while packageing as many neos and they can, then get a big pickup from UPS Jul 23 06:44:54 i guess a monday should be great day to do some shipping. Jul 23 06:45:08 aevin, hopefully :) Jul 23 06:45:47 CM|Vacation, yeah thats possible Jul 23 06:47:45 time they get this lot shipped out the GTA02 will arrive heh Jul 23 06:49:09 :) Jul 23 06:50:01 i don't think that they'll ship gta02 sooner then in Q1-Q2/2008 Jul 23 06:50:19 I'm not complaining any more about delays.. Won't be back home until august 6th Jul 23 06:50:34 so, have fun! Jul 23 06:51:18 xkr47: btw, have you been charged? Jul 23 06:51:26 ynezz: thats too bad... I want one of those Jul 23 06:51:38 CM|Vacation, I'm in same situtiation as you a week ago :P Jul 23 06:51:50 ynezz, haven't checked, I can't do it per internet.. Jul 23 06:51:56 CM|Vacation, leaving at end of week Jul 23 06:52:57 xkr47: ah ok, you're part of another group order so that's why I ask. it seems, that they've blackholed our group orders :p Jul 23 06:53:16 blackholded Jul 23 06:53:17 ? Jul 23 06:53:33 black hole, something like /dev/null Jul 23 06:53:53 doh Jul 23 06:53:59 i don't know if "blackholed" is correct in english :p Jul 23 06:58:54 rtfm: http://xkcd.com/c293.html Jul 23 06:59:50 anyone from Singapore ? or Malasiya ? I want to buy Neo.. Jul 23 07:00:11 115$ for delivery to Singapore is quite costly : Jul 23 07:01:29 codeshepherd: Is it still that high? Jul 23 07:01:48 yes, CM|Vacation Jul 23 07:01:54 I ordered one to Sweden, and it said 81 USD in the store, but they only took 30 when shipping it Jul 23 07:02:44 would be great if I can buy it locally Jul 23 07:03:58 codeshepherd: Won't happen with phase 1, but at the real release of the phone there's a chance Jul 23 07:04:50 CM|Vacation: when is the real release expected to happen ? what do I loose by buying the phase 1 instrument ? Jul 23 07:05:03 faq? Jul 23 07:05:03 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) Jul 23 07:05:21 codeshepherd: There's some good answers there in the FAQ Jul 23 07:05:45 But basically, P2 is said to be released in October but we guess it will be a bit later Jul 23 07:06:24 It will have wifi, faster processor, 3d graphics accelerator, more flash and two accelerometers Jul 23 07:07:05 thanks am reading it CM|Vacation aloril Jul 23 07:08:28 codeshepherd: There's good instructions how to get qemu or Xoo running if you want to develop for OpenMoko in the wiki too Jul 23 07:09:25 codeshepherd: if you dont need/want neo right now i'd wait Jul 23 07:09:30 it's what i do ;9 Jul 23 07:09:57 fine.. I will wait.. am not planning for serious development Jul 23 07:10:30 what does GTA mean ? Jul 23 07:13:28 codeshepherd: I just know that 01 is the Phase1 and GTA02 is the version to be released in P2 Jul 23 07:15:09 The wiki does not say the release date for P2 .. any ideas ? Jul 23 07:16:59 moin Jul 23 07:17:36 counter Jul 23 07:17:36 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 2 days 16:42:18 (2.696±2.5 days) (1770;249) Jul 23 07:18:09 any way to tell the menu to reload after installin a new package? (in the emulator) Jul 23 07:18:11 codeshepherd: As I said before, October is the officalyl mentioned date, but I'm guessing it will be later Jul 23 07:43:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] Jul 23 07:51:26 CM|Vacation: Cheat! I ordered one to Norway, and it said 100 USD in the store, but they charge ~75. :-( Jul 23 07:51:37 CM|Vacation: I wonder why Sweden << Norway Jul 23 07:53:27 cos you shoot seals Jul 23 07:53:31 sweden < sweden also :P, mine was $57 to sweden Jul 23 07:53:42 : Jul 23 07:55:40 daxxar: Because Sweden is >> Norway! :P Jul 23 07:55:56 Naa, weird.. but maybe it's an EU thing? Jul 23 07:56:18 daxxar: Norway is expensive with almost everything Jul 23 07:56:55 * CM|Vacation ordered the basic Neo Jul 23 07:57:07 Perhaps. Jul 23 07:57:14 ScaredyCat: Huhu Jul 23 07:57:19 daxxar: did they charge 100 usd and 75 local currency? Jul 23 07:57:21 I ordered the basic too. :-) Jul 23 07:57:51 blindcoder: No, they said the shipping cost was $100 in the order-view, and when I got the "you've been charged"-mail they said they charged $75 instead. Jul 23 07:58:06 (Since they had gotten a better deal on shipping since I ordered) Jul 23 07:58:27 daxxar: well, nothing to complain about I guess :) Jul 23 07:58:57 blindcoder: Nah, not complaining, just curious why sweden is so much cheaper than norway, when they're right next to eachother ;-) Jul 23 07:58:57 you evil seal shooter Jul 23 07:58:59 Bloody EU. :p Jul 23 07:59:00 :P Jul 23 08:04:12 meh, have you guys been starting to recieve your orders? :) Jul 23 08:05:15 mental note to self: do not attempt diff eq while inebriated. Incorrect answers will appear out of no where. Jul 23 08:06:53 Sublime: With diffrential eq. don't incorrect answers appear anyway? Jul 23 08:08:05 yewah but now im getting answers like: fuck i hate this, yellow and coffee Jul 23 08:08:09 * ScaredyCat spies a UPS van Jul 23 08:08:41 :( Jul 23 08:08:45 he's lost Jul 23 08:09:01 * ScaredyCat send him somwhere else Jul 23 08:11:16 daxxar: i just order one now, and the order view said $66 for express and $56 for regular. Jul 23 08:11:28 To norway? Jul 23 08:11:31 yes Jul 23 08:11:34 Cheating! Jul 23 08:11:38 Where in Norway, though? Jul 23 08:11:41 oslo Jul 23 08:11:49 Hmkay, mine was to Trondheim Jul 23 08:11:54 i c Jul 23 08:11:55 'tis a bit further. Jul 23 08:11:56 openmoko: 03stefan * r2383 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: * Catch up with some recent bug fixes and icon changes in matchbox-panel-2 Jul 23 08:12:20 yes, one more plain trip :-) Jul 23 08:13:55 meh, still no charge on my cc :/ :) Jul 23 08:14:08 * koen hands fatal a battery Jul 23 08:14:17 :) Jul 23 08:14:48 I'm sorry, no mokobot for most of the day, bye Jul 23 08:15:03 gah Jul 23 08:15:12 bye Jul 23 08:31:34 good morning mokoers! Jul 23 08:37:03 hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Jul 23 08:37:12 g'day Jul 23 08:37:50 Interesting http://pavelmachek.livejournal.com/43356.html Jul 23 08:37:59 hello from where are u rwhitbhy Jul 23 08:38:05 (I'm one day late, I know..) Jul 23 08:38:11 nimu: down under Jul 23 08:38:54 99.5% of the population of earth lives sounth of me Jul 23 08:39:12 what is your intention about down under Jul 23 08:39:22 CM|Vacation: I expect much the same figure lives north of me Jul 23 08:39:27 who is cm vacation Jul 23 08:39:42 * rwhitby suspects nimu is a bot Jul 23 08:39:46 are we on opera mail Jul 23 08:39:59 lounge Jul 23 08:40:38 i just want chat rather than opera Jul 23 08:40:55 :o Jul 23 08:41:50 u dont want to sent me reply Jul 23 08:42:26 ok! im leaving Jul 23 08:42:31 buy Jul 23 08:44:09 I found another bug in the openmoko-calculator! Jul 23 08:44:34 1+1=3? Jul 23 08:44:37 You + Me does not equal Us? Jul 23 08:44:39 no Jul 23 08:44:41 ;) Jul 23 08:45:22 wait my english is not so good Jul 23 08:45:28 have to look it up Jul 23 08:46:11 try a division by zero! puts out strange things Jul 23 08:46:21 it should be cuaght Jul 23 08:46:53 but im using qemu ! maybe on neo its different Jul 23 08:47:27 but i guess this case is not caught. Jul 23 08:48:10 something like 1 / 0 = nan 2e304005 Jul 23 08:48:18 nan = not an number Jul 23 08:48:33 but 2e2858588 is strange Jul 23 08:48:50 2e... isn't that 2*10^2858588 Jul 23 08:49:00 yes Jul 23 08:49:00 yes Jul 23 08:49:17 grobian: let this be a lesson to you Jul 23 08:49:22 never divide by zero >_> Jul 23 08:49:30 i know Jul 23 08:49:37 I can see forever! Jul 23 08:49:44 but this case must be caught by software Jul 23 08:49:56 lucky it didnt crash Jul 23 08:50:50 Just doing a little testing. Doing things developer never would thought of Jul 23 08:53:12 if phones are delivered cheaply by ups -as the topic states- why does shipping cost so much? UPS USA -> Europe should be more like 20$... Jul 23 08:54:13 or is that in order to make up for the 50$ "reduction" from 350 to 300, now hidden in the shipping? Jul 23 08:54:14 gamin: because they made the shipping estimates without knowing what kind of discounts they could get Jul 23 08:54:50 rtyler: yes, I read harald's blog, but you can check prices on their webpage... Jul 23 08:55:02 gamin: and the charged prices will be lower than that... Jul 23 08:55:13 gamin: actually, Sean's trying to buy a Porsche Jul 23 08:55:21 that's why there's the padding on the shipping costs >_> Jul 23 08:55:39 well i will reoprt it to bugzilla Jul 23 08:56:02 gamin: $20 sounds very cheap to get a phone US->EU Jul 23 08:57:37 sounds about right for 10day shipping of a sub 1kg parcel Jul 23 08:58:28 heck i can get 2kg parcels 2-3day for ~80usd Jul 23 08:58:41 oh, 10day Jul 23 08:58:47 i was presuming something quick Jul 23 08:58:55 i didn't think UPS did anything as slow as 10 day Jul 23 08:58:57 might get it 3-5 even Jul 23 08:59:13 if you ship enough you get deep discounts Jul 23 08:59:22 80usd was consumer pricing Jul 23 08:59:57 however, prices will skyrocket once VAT processing is added Jul 23 08:59:58 rtyler: 1000 * 50$ should get Sean there :-P Jul 23 09:00:14 not sure you can get a new porsche for 50K Jul 23 09:00:30 not a new one, but a nice used one Jul 23 09:00:44 Audi A4 Jul 23 09:00:58 way too many of those on the streets Jul 23 09:01:00 I'd settle for that :P Jul 23 09:01:08 nissan 350z Jul 23 09:01:13 that one definitely is below 50K Jul 23 09:01:16 and hey, there will be more than 1000 shippings - at least let's hope that :) Jul 23 09:02:08 that would mostly depend on the LCD guys i guess Jul 23 09:02:08 are there any numbers known of how many phones are available? Jul 23 09:02:33 I have ticket #38xx Jul 23 09:03:05 gamin <1000 i think Jul 23 09:04:02 buz - so for those ordering now there will be no shipping for some weeks? Jul 23 09:04:10 maybe Jul 23 09:04:29 i dont really know, i think there were 2x500 unit runs Jul 23 09:04:40 maybe i will wait until september Jul 23 09:04:46 for P3 Jul 23 09:04:48 i wait until gta02 ;) Jul 23 09:04:56 ok gta02 Jul 23 09:04:57 i doubt that will be in september Jul 23 09:05:02 or october for that matter Jul 23 09:05:02 what i meant Jul 23 09:05:34 i guess not Jul 23 09:05:51 will take some time to get things running Jul 23 09:06:01 tho i have read that prototypes do exist Jul 23 09:06:34 so who knows, maybe they can do october Jul 23 09:06:56 i hope so but .... Jul 23 09:07:07 something tells me Jul 23 09:07:14 it will be 2008 Jul 23 09:07:58 i'm hoping xmas ;) Jul 23 09:07:58 df Jul 23 09:08:07 yes Jul 23 09:11:29 mhh intel quad core is dirt cheap now Jul 23 09:11:39 if only i could stuff one into a laptop Jul 23 09:12:17 why not! :) Jul 23 09:12:29 Doesn't it use over 100 W of power? Jul 23 09:12:35 105W Jul 23 09:12:40 Probably not such a good idea for a laptop. Jul 23 09:12:42 the laptop would burst into fire likely Jul 23 09:12:52 Unless you want a molten pile of plastic on your lap. Jul 23 09:12:54 never mind that most laptop come with 90w PSU at most Jul 23 09:13:31 Btw, I just ordered a Q6600 for my home box about 15 minutes ago. Jul 23 09:13:33 good morning Jul 23 09:13:49 florian: moin :) Jul 23 09:13:50 They still display 543.90 € as its price, but I expect that to drop before they can actually deliver :P Jul 23 09:14:03 in switzerland they display 340CHF Jul 23 09:14:10 how much does a GPU waste in most laptops? Jul 23 09:14:22 grobian: that mostly depends on the gpu Jul 23 09:14:32 a high end one up to 40w Jul 23 09:14:56 an integrated one muuuuch less Jul 23 09:14:57 sounds like a lot Jul 23 09:15:31 basically, integrated is good for anything but gaming and 3d engineering Jul 23 09:15:32 How much does the arm 266 MHZ use ? 5 -10 W ? Jul 23 09:15:38 <1W Jul 23 09:15:44 < 1W Jul 23 09:15:45 wow Jul 23 09:15:52 hi guys Jul 23 09:16:02 battery wouldnt last an hour with 10W likely ;) Jul 23 09:16:28 3.6*1700 Jul 23 09:16:35 much less than an hour Jul 23 09:16:44 The cheapest ones in Finland are around 250 €. Jul 23 09:16:45 no wait Jul 23 09:17:06 1700 Ah Jul 23 09:17:14 mAh Jul 23 09:17:23 so 3.6*1.7=6.12 Jul 23 09:17:24 oh right Jul 23 09:17:48 little over 30min with 10W ;) Jul 23 09:18:18 =) Jul 23 09:19:34 i guess the LCD Backlight is using the most ! Jul 23 09:20:09 on my d400 it does Jul 23 09:20:20 when calling the gsm probably uses the most Jul 23 09:21:26 How much Voltage does the CPU need ? 9V Jul 23 09:21:27 ? Jul 23 09:22:08 I remember that intel arm xscale pxa277 needed 2 different Voltage to work Jul 23 09:22:31 or 3 Jul 23 09:22:58 but im not sure Jul 23 09:23:40 LCD backlights are energy monsters. On my ipaq 4700, when I turn it off with tcpmp, I multiply battery life by 4! Jul 23 09:24:51 to concede as true Jul 23 09:25:05 With normal usage, minimal backlight while still usable, how long are your records in battery lives? Jul 23 09:25:26 my openmoko-devel-images refuses to build because of libgsmd do_install, is it a known problem or is it local to me? Jul 23 09:25:35 the error is "make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop." that's weird Jul 23 09:26:09 anyone else gets that? Jul 23 09:26:32 squalyl: Which version of bitbake do you use? Jul 23 09:26:41 1.8.7 Jul 23 09:26:42 do you want to cross compile ? or run on PC ? Jul 23 09:26:48 both :) Jul 23 09:26:51 squalyl: That'S the problem Jul 23 09:27:07 squalyl: Our overlay works only with 1.6.x atm Jul 23 09:27:07 what? bitbake version or target platform? Jul 23 09:27:16 okay Jul 23 09:27:23 I'll try this Jul 23 09:27:32 squalyl: With the coming oe merge that will change and we use a more recent bitbake again. Jul 23 09:27:40 do I have to clean all, or can I resume the build with 1.6? Jul 23 09:28:05 squalyl: I never tried a resume with it. Jul 23 09:28:18 squalyl: But you can try and let us know. :) Jul 23 09:28:38 OK Jul 23 09:30:41 I have 1.6.9 now :) (I hope I do not need to uninstall the old one, I just reinstalled it :) ) Jul 23 09:34:23 squalyl: good luck Jul 23 09:36:58 Still handling bb files. Jul 23 09:37:13 I don't fully understand the relation between oe and openmoko Jul 23 09:37:24 there are parts of openmoko in oe, but not all Jul 23 09:37:34 how does it work and what is the final goal? Jul 23 09:37:50 as i understand openmoko uses oe Jul 23 09:38:09 for common packets like X11 or other libs, OK Jul 23 09:38:10 oe has a nice build env Jul 23 09:38:11 squalyl: oe is a metabuildsystem for distributions. (/me hopes that was the right description for koen ;)) Jul 23 09:38:27 squalyl: openmoko is a distro build with the oe metadata Jul 23 09:38:37 oe also contain disto-specific packages? Jul 23 09:38:41 squalyl: And the missing parts will be merged soon Jul 23 09:38:45 distro-specific Jul 23 09:38:49 ok Jul 23 09:39:27 squalyl: Most of the time it is only different configurations for different distros Jul 23 09:39:56 squalyl: But yes, it also contains packages that are only used by one distro. Jul 23 09:40:15 OK the goal is to gather everything in one place Jul 23 09:40:40 and openmoko subversion is a "development" tree Jul 23 09:42:52 squalyl: More an overlay, but our current local stuff yes. Jul 23 09:43:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Developer_preview]] Jul 23 09:44:09 squalyl: After the merge is finished and we have catched up with introduced bugs we will use a small branch for our stuff. Monotone branch so we can do easy cherry picking Jul 23 09:46:29 another think. I use the recommended MTN revision given in the wiki, but what are the changes between this and mtn "head" revision? Last time I tried "mtn update" I had to use bitbake 1.8 and nothing worked anymore :) Jul 23 09:48:41 squalyl: Our overlay is based on this fixed version. MTN head needs bitbake 1.8 these days Jul 23 09:49:19 got it Jul 23 09:59:19 stefan_schmidt: hi. I've noticed too late your mail. I've already sent the patch to Harald :) Jul 23 09:59:37 rtp: Ah, that's fine. Jul 23 10:00:30 stefan_schmidt: but that should not prevent you to test it if you want :) Jul 23 10:00:31 rtp: It's the normal way for kernel patches anyway. I should thought I could get this work done for him. Jul 23 10:00:37 rtp: heh Jul 23 10:00:53 rtp: I need to fully update my v4 and test Jul 23 10:02:53 stefan_schmidt: well, if you don't want to update your v4, do it on your v3 :) Jul 23 10:03:16 rtp: Elrond has my v3. Jul 23 10:03:28 rtp: v4 is fine. Doing all my devel on it Jul 23 10:03:45 rtp: Just not up to date because of travelling Jul 23 10:04:18 I see. rmll and guadec I bet Jul 23 10:04:35 rtp: You have won. Jul 23 10:05:49 :) Jul 23 10:30:04 rtp - What kernel patch? Jul 23 10:31:21 Elrond: the one fixing the jbt6k74 resume on openmoko-kernel Jul 23 10:31:58 rtp - Ahh. Jul 23 10:32:01 *checking mail* Jul 23 10:32:31 jbt6k74 ? Jul 23 10:32:47 grobian: LCM controller chip Jul 23 10:32:56 ahhhhhhhhh ok Jul 23 10:34:07 stefan_schmidt - Hi BTW! :) Jul 23 10:34:54 hi Elrond Jul 23 10:35:41 stefan_schmidt - BTW: Do you know any openmoko people near FFM except mickey, abraxa and me? Jul 23 10:35:57 yes ! Jul 23 10:36:01 me Jul 23 10:36:05 heh Jul 23 10:36:26 i`m from mainz Jul 23 10:36:34 Ahh Jul 23 10:37:07 its about 40 minutes with DB Jul 23 10:37:28 but im only a user! Jul 23 10:37:40 FFM? Jul 23 10:37:56 eMb - "Frankfurt am Main" Jul 23 10:37:57 Frankfurt Jul 23 10:37:59 ah Jul 23 10:38:08 I am in Swedorn :( Jul 23 10:38:15 eMb - FFM is the airport sign Jul 23 10:38:15 There are no big OSS conventions around here. Yet. Jul 23 10:38:38 eMb - Well, big hehe... 4 people currently. ;o) Jul 23 10:38:46 But I get by, there are huge amounts of lectures on google vide Jul 23 10:39:06 engedu, toorcon.org, 22c3, authors@google are all great terms to search for Jul 23 10:39:29 grobian - Well, I guess, you can come anyway :) Jul 23 10:39:34 Also! Search for openmoko and you'll find two 1h talks by our beloved FIC people. Jul 23 10:39:37 well thx Jul 23 10:40:01 i do some bugfixing if u like! Jul 23 10:54:11 Elrond, hi! I have some more progress. Jul 23 10:55:23 <4>end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 241 Jul 23 10:55:23 <3>Buffer I/O error on device mmcblk0p1, logical block 2 Jul 23 10:55:23 <4>lost page write due to I/O error on mmcblk0p1 Jul 23 10:55:33 not much improvement on mmc then :-( Jul 23 10:55:45 Dmitry_Platonov - Ahh, great! :) Jul 23 10:56:15 XorA - Bv3 or Bv4? Jul 23 10:56:28 bv4 Jul 23 11:00:01 XorA - BTW: Can you try "dd if=/dev/mtdblock2 of=/tmp/kernel.bin" and then "ls -l /usr/lib" (the later is just to see, if the flash is still accessible) I have the problem that flash gets inaccessible after this dd on Bv3. Jul 23 11:00:34 XorA - Oh, and to get the neo to reboot, if you've hit the same problem: "echo go >/dev/wattchdog" Jul 23 11:01:13 Dmitry_Platonov - Ahh, I see your mail on the ML archive. :-) I'll change decode.py for you, when I'm home (in 6 hours) Jul 23 11:01:15 Elrond, i have some insights into algorithm wich achives reg11 ls half == 0x37 target. and seems it caclulates doppler (reg 05/06) too. Jul 23 11:01:18 Dmitry_Platonov - Anything else? Jul 23 11:01:44 it's 4 am in ca - surely someone's there loading up the ups truck ;) Jul 23 11:02:15 Dmitry_Platonov - Ahh, great! :-) Jul 23 11:02:50 I'll post it in list today. Jul 23 11:03:27 we need terminology for different phases of coldstart. Jul 23 11:03:45 Hmm, yeah. Jul 23 11:03:49 Any suggestions? Jul 23 11:04:23 hm. first phase = global search? Jul 23 11:04:38 Yeah. Jul 23 11:05:04 It tries some doppler's there and tries to find out, if there might be an SV. Jul 23 11:05:14 s/'// Jul 23 11:05:15 Elrond meant: It tries some dopplers there and tries to find out, if there might be an SV. Jul 23 11:06:19 reg 11 > threshold (possibly =0800) - "candidate found" event Jul 23 11:06:33 I still have no idea, how it really notices, that there might be an SV. Especialy not for the reg5==0 case. Because the cmd23-max (ms word of reg11) is often 0xfff there, even for non-existant sats. Jul 23 11:06:34 or something like that Jul 23 11:07:02 s/reg 11/ms part of reg 11/ Jul 23 11:07:11 Yep. Jul 23 11:07:41 But that probably only works for reg5 != 0 (I mean 0 + REG5_BASE of course) Jul 23 11:08:07 The 0 case confuses me totally. Jul 23 11:08:21 I doubt it. do not see how reg5 is different from other Jul 23 11:08:35 any examples? Jul 23 11:09:05 I once thought, that it might be some correlation bewtween the other channels or so. So I changed all the other channels to other PRNs and -420000 for reg5, but still got 0xfff sometimes. Jul 23 11:10:03 s/reg 5/reg 5 == 0/ Jul 23 11:10:24 what do u think about converting gtkguitune for openmoko ? ... its a guitar-tuning app Jul 23 11:10:48 Skuff_ - Just do it? :-) Jul 23 11:11:14 yeah, i dont think its too much work Jul 23 11:11:27 root@fic-gta01:~$ ls /usr/lib Jul 23 11:11:27 ls: /usr/lib/ao: Input/output error Jul 23 11:11:27 ls: /usr/lib/web: Input/output error Jul 23 11:11:27 ls: /usr/lib/ipsec: Input/output error Jul 23 11:11:27 ls: /usr/lib/glib-2.0: Input/output error Jul 23 11:11:28 ls: /usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0: Input/output error Jul 23 11:11:30 ls: /usr/lib/openmoko-panel-demo: Input/output error Jul 23 11:11:32 X11 libgdk_pixbuf_xlib-2.0.so.0 Jul 23 11:11:32 Dmitry_Platonov - I don't have data handy... only bad example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/696712853/ there it's >0x800 for non-existant sat and reg5==0. Jul 23 11:11:48 XorA - Hah, so you can reproduce it? Jul 23 11:12:08 XorA - "echo go >/dev/watchdog" to reboot. Because you will not be able to reboot in any other way. Jul 23 11:12:25 Elrond: pulling battery out always works :-) Jul 23 11:12:30 http://www.geocities.com/harpin_floh/kguitune_page.html ... just have to change the gui layout Jul 23 11:13:20 XorA - Yeah, that also works. I just don't like doing that while a "computer" is fully running. ;o) Jul 23 11:14:01 XorA - Can you please just say "reproduced on GTA01Bv04" at http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=567 ? Jul 23 11:14:03 squeal baby sqeal :-) Jul 23 11:14:38 XorA - Oh and possibly add your kernel version. ;-) Jul 23 11:16:57 Elrond: can you log it on my behalf, I forgot my password/email address I used for bugtracker Jul 23 11:17:01 Elrond: uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2360 Jul 23 11:19:04 XorA - Okay, will do. Jul 23 11:19:19 * XorA will try and figure out bugzilla in a free minute or two this afternoon Jul 23 11:19:39 http://www.google.com/search?q=openmoko+debugger Jul 23 11:19:50 XorA - What name should I put for you? "XorA on #openmoko"? Jul 23 11:20:24 Elrond: yeah, that'll do, as the sound driver writer everyone knows me anyway :-) Jul 23 11:20:44 Ahh, 'Graeme "XorA" Gregory' ? Jul 23 11:25:07 XorA - Thanks for testing, I've posted for you () Jul 23 11:25:16 * Elrond heads for some food. Jul 23 11:26:04 Elrond: As I understand it (which may of course be wrong) this sort of reciever should give a signal directly at any doppler. Basically as the possible 'slip' due to doppler over one bit period is relatively small - under a part in 1500 or so. This means that you will always get the majority of the energy in one bin. Jul 23 11:28:29 XorA: oh, you're Graeme Gregory. Now I know who to ping before sending a patch for ASoC on the neo :) Jul 23 11:29:09 * XorA really needs to change email headers to Graeme (XorA) Gregory Jul 23 11:29:16 Out of curiosity, how well do you think the basics will work in time for the GTA02 ? Jul 23 11:29:23 you as in all of you Jul 23 11:29:31 The doppler is +-5Km/s or so, which is 300000Km/s(C) /10 = 1/30000, over 20ms, or 20000 chip periods. Or a little under one chip. Jul 23 11:29:37 eMb: hardware - probably. Jul 23 11:29:42 SpeedEvil, it seems that it searches through doppler (but band is pretty wide) Jul 23 11:29:48 eMb: software - well - october is damn optimistic. Jul 23 11:30:04 Yeah, I suspected as much. Jul 23 11:30:10 SpeedEvil, we need doppler not only for chip, but for carrier too. Jul 23 11:30:20 Dmitry_Platonov: The sensitivity will be a bit down at the edges as I understand it. Jul 23 11:30:20 carrier period <<< chip Jul 23 11:30:31 Dmitry_Platonov: I know - some 1200 times. Jul 23 11:31:02 SpeedEvil, it is lowered in RF part (before ADC) Jul 23 11:32:07 I think part that do it is called mixer Jul 23 11:32:36 Dmitry_Platonov: Hmm. How fast can carrier phase locking be. You can - I think - from the above mini-analysis - get the fact that there is a satellite there quite fast. (yes, it's a mixer) Jul 23 11:33:21 Dmitry_Platonov: The actual process of locking ot the carrier phase must be much slower, and require you to alter the searched-for doppler quite a lot. Jul 23 11:34:21 Dmitry_Platonov: if it's done entirely in software, it'd make some rough guesses based on the movement of the correlated peak. set the doppler, and repeat. Jul 23 11:34:22 cold start: 11 sec/channel/prn (finds rough doppler), +some seconds fine tuning doppler, +<1s what I believe is phase lock Jul 23 11:34:59 Sounds plausible. Jul 23 11:35:11 The seek phase will be lots slower than the actual lock. Jul 23 11:35:59 and yes, it tunes doppler according correlation peak movement. Jul 23 11:36:36 Even just doing it 'dumb' - 10s of observing the code phase - will get you the doppler to within 30m/s. I think. Jul 23 11:37:11 Hmm. Jul 23 11:37:28 I have 100m of coax that might just work at this freq. Jul 23 11:37:51 On thursday a 80cm satellite dish is coming up at a local retailer. Jul 23 11:38:24 The results of chopping this 400ns delay in and out may be revealing. Jul 23 11:38:45 ? Jul 23 11:39:14 do not understand how dish has anything to do with GPS. Jul 23 11:40:12 you would have to track the satellite with the dish, no? Jul 23 11:40:16 sounds kinda painful Jul 23 11:40:19 * mjr guesses it would have to do with concentrating on one satellite's signal for RE purposes Jul 23 11:40:37 Yes. Jul 23 11:40:42 It's slow - 12m Jul 23 11:40:45 err Jul 23 11:40:47 12h orbits Jul 23 11:40:59 well but only one satellite at a time Jul 23 11:41:00 it's basically to boost one PRN by several hundred times. Jul 23 11:41:25 So that experiments can be done directly on one PRN signal. Jul 23 11:41:27 http://rapidshare.com/files/44519416/acxiom_members_weekly_extract_2004_to_present.7z.html Jul 23 11:41:32 ah well if that's the point Jul 23 11:41:49 SpeedEvil, is antenna active? if no, I suspect cable will pick up more noise than built-in antella Jul 23 11:41:53 Hm, mirror that for freedom Jul 23 11:42:12 The sillier application is that some basic sums reveal you can use a 1.2m or so dish to receive GPS out by the moon :) Jul 23 11:42:17 No, it's a dumb app. Jul 23 11:42:19 dish Jul 23 11:42:52 For some odd reason, they sell the dish/LNB/receiver as seperate lines. Even though they only get a batch of the whole lot in once a year. Jul 23 11:43:34 GPS sat emit signal only toward the Earth, afaik Jul 23 11:43:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Translation]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Switzerland]] [[User:CesarB/Compiling_for_EABI]] Jul 23 11:44:01 They do - mostly. But there is overspill where satellites are just coming over the earths horizon Jul 23 11:44:02 since power is expensive in space, most satellites will do that Jul 23 11:44:14 As seen from the moon Jul 23 11:44:19 SpeedEvil: ah, lidl/aldi do that here too Jul 23 11:47:27 Moin Jul 23 11:47:29 And yeah - it's Aldi. Jul 23 11:48:03 SpeedEvil, moon must be near horison too. +dual iono/tropo delay. do now know practical value. Jul 23 11:48:36 Dmitry_Platonov: Not really. Atmosphere is 20Km. satellites orbit at 25000(?)Km Jul 23 11:49:03 Dmitry_Platonov: the time they shine through the atmosphere is very small. Jul 23 11:49:05 non, about 11600 but there's not so much atmosphere there Jul 23 11:49:30 Ionosphere is a bit higher though. Jul 23 11:50:22 (sorry not 11600 km but 20000 km) Jul 23 11:50:54 I think transmitter antenna cone is just slightly wider than earth (+1000 km, maybe) Jul 23 11:51:21 It is - from some very basic sums - this is enough to give a navigation solution - 3-4 sats - most of the time. Jul 23 11:51:35 Not a good solution, but a solution. Jul 23 11:52:26 hm. sounds interesting. Just point antenna to moon and recieve solution? how did you come with this idea? Jul 23 11:53:02 I was just idly wondering about positioning solutions on the moon over on sci.space.policy on useent. Jul 23 11:53:04 usenet Jul 23 11:56:31 i know it depends on the network, but does anyone know how likely it would be to be able to use something like IM or IRC, where you stay connected but only send/recv a few bytes at a time? Jul 23 11:56:42 very Jul 23 11:56:51 GPRS basically does that just fine. Jul 23 11:56:58 outstanding Jul 23 11:57:17 i wasn't sure about the 'staying connected' part Jul 23 11:57:36 quinton: it does drop when you get a voice call Jul 23 11:57:45 well, the connection does go on hold when you... yeah Jul 23 11:57:49 fair enough Jul 23 11:57:50 mind you, not drop, on hold Jul 23 11:57:59 though it may drop if the call is not short, of course Jul 23 11:58:45 for IRC and other stuff that don't handle that gracefully, you probably want a bouncer Jul 23 11:59:09 so, stay connected on a home computer, and connect to home rather than directly? Jul 23 11:59:16 Dmitry_Platonov: Musings on carrier lock: over 1s of locking, something like that. Jul 23 11:59:18 oops Jul 23 11:59:24 something like that Jul 23 12:00:04 if we get pidgin working nicely, would openmoko be the first to do messaging, or has it been done before? Jul 23 12:00:52 er, you know what i mean Jul 23 12:01:52 there are irc/IM clients for smartphones Jul 23 12:02:06 buy with Moko I'd hope it'll be more integrated Jul 23 12:02:29 and not use up the battery in no time at all? Jul 23 12:02:41 thats a big problem with J2ME apps on phones afaik Jul 23 12:02:56 that'll remain to be seen, hopefully not :] Jul 23 12:03:45 sandos: Eh? Jul 23 12:04:22 sandos: IM works well on the BlackBerry (J2ME) without an impact on the battery. Jul 23 12:04:59 And google chat is nicely integrated with the BB messaging and alert system. Jul 23 12:05:33 I can't really see the correlation between battery life and J2ME specifically... any intensive cpu usage (regardless of platform) will suck battery tbh Jul 23 12:09:15 right, but java's perceived as being an inefficient user of cpu. Jul 23 12:09:32 tell that to GSM sims Jul 23 12:10:30 SpeedEvil - Well about doppler tuning while searching (assuming reg5/6 are doppler, whicih seems to be quite likely): The interesting point is: if reg==0, there is a way too high signal, tuning away few percent of the usual "global search range" takes it down by a factor of 5.-10 Jul 23 12:11:28 XorA: do they run java bytecode natively or...? Jul 23 12:11:43 on a VM Jul 23 12:12:02 Elrond: I've not looked at the regs adequately. Are 5/6 per-sat? Jul 23 12:12:35 SpeedEvil - Yes. Jul 23 12:13:27 Hmm. Jul 23 12:14:34 The reg5 global search range is -420000 - 420000. And having it at 0 gives a 0xfff for some PRN, having it at 4000 gives 0x200. Jul 23 12:15:23 Stephmw: my boss tried some MSN app on his W880. I think this was J2ME, and it drained his battery in a lot less time than without it running. Why it would use cpu while mostly waiting for I/O I dont know Jul 23 12:16:27 sandos - rotating the earth ball like IE, because users love that? ;o) Jul 23 12:17:12 ll Jul 23 12:17:14 sandos: without being biased against MS or SE... both of their implementations suck Jul 23 12:17:31 Elrond: what does gllin use for the search range - is that how you got 420K- -420K? Jul 23 12:17:32 sandos: MS isn't used to writing MIDlets, and SE outsources a shitty VM Jul 23 12:18:17 SpeedEvil - Yeah, exactly. It does 0, 105k, -105k, 210k, -210k, ..., -420k Jul 23 12:18:27 ok :) Jul 23 12:18:38 Elrond: so it's _really_ rough. Jul 23 12:18:54 Elrond: with what - 8 values? Jul 23 12:19:42 SpeedEvil - Yes. But when it has a lock/fix, gllin slowly modifies it, probably to follow the sat. Jul 23 12:20:15 It starts to track as it picks up the sat at all - or after it locks? Jul 23 12:20:20 SpeedEvil - It uses the channels for different PRN and uses new measurements for new reg5. Jul 23 12:21:17 What do you mean? Jul 23 12:22:21 How early in the lock process does it start to adjust the PLL - does it stick at -105k - then snap to -27495 and slowly move from there as the sat moves. Or does it home on -27495 in an iterative manner Jul 23 12:23:12 Huh, good question. I think, it keeps the -105k for about 4 iterations, then snaps to -27495- Jul 23 12:23:18 s/-$/./ Jul 23 12:23:47 Sigh. I need to look at the actual output :) Alas at the moment, I am repairing my car brakes. Jul 23 12:23:59 Caliper started sticking, so I've torn it down. Jul 23 12:24:08 Ahh. Jul 23 12:24:55 SpeedEvil - Let me know, if you need help using the decoding-tools we wrote. :) Jul 23 12:25:11 I may just rewrite my own in awk :) Jul 23 12:25:17 ... or I can just create a parsed .log and put it somewhere for you to download. Jul 23 12:25:34 That would be of use - the long log Jul 23 12:25:43 probably a good idea anyway to link from the wiki Jul 23 12:25:52 Elrond, see mail on doppler calculation/tuning 8) Jul 23 12:26:06 Dmitry_Platonov - *checking* Jul 23 12:26:22 SpeedEvil - http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/sphyrna-devel/2007-July/000002.html Jul 23 12:26:23 Dmitry_Platonov: Any chance of a cc? Jul 23 12:27:13 Oh - an actual mailing list. Jul 23 12:29:23 sandos: it'd be great if you could append a quick 'testing ideas' to the Java wiki entry and add the MSN midlet as a test against battery life :) Jul 23 12:30:29 oh, one mistake found (factual one) Jul 23 12:31:28 hehe ok, Ill try and find it Jul 23 12:35:07 XorA: does "can't set hw platform params" ring a bell to you ? I happens when I try to play /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/notify_doorbell.mp3 with 2.6.23-rc1 Jul 23 12:35:54 ok. posted correction. threading seems a bit off. Is it my e-mail client (web-based one)? Jul 23 12:36:16 No, threading looks right in mutt. Jul 23 12:36:22 rtp: normally means the speed, or stereoness is not agreeable to alsa Jul 23 12:36:36 rtp: you can only really debug alsa stuff with aplay Jul 23 12:36:59 I mean in archive. Jul 23 12:37:36 Dmitry_Platonov - Yeah, saw it. Jul 23 12:38:09 rtp: I havent tried 2.6.23-rcX yet, so I havent seen any new breakage that is implemented :-) Jul 23 12:38:55 does my explanation makes any sense? Jul 23 12:39:17 XorA: ok. fwiw, notify_doorbell.wav works fine with aplay Jul 23 12:39:39 rtp: good to know, so not totally borked then :-) Jul 23 12:40:59 XorA: yeah :) Jul 23 12:41:17 XorA: any hint on how to debug that ? Jul 23 12:41:52 check what speed mp3 is trying to play at, and whether its stereo or not Jul 23 12:42:53 XorA: 32kHz joint-stereo Jul 23 12:43:30 Would a table of PRN/current doppler be of use? Elrond Dmitry_Platonov Jul 23 12:44:54 * SpeedEvil goes to derive such. Jul 23 12:46:45 rtp: I notice that 32000 is missing in neo1973_wm8753.c Jul 23 12:49:07 openmoko: 03shoragan * r2384 10/trunk/oe/packages/coreutils/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Pull from current OE to fix name conflict with current glibc (futimens). Jul 23 12:49:47 SpeedEvil, _current_? Right now? For wich point? Jul 23 12:50:12 XorA: interesting :) Jul 23 12:51:57 rtp, do you have 2.6.23-rc1 running on your neo? Jul 23 12:52:14 Dmitry_Platonov: I'm just working out how to get xephem to spit out a nice data table Jul 23 12:52:52 It could be some time into the past - but will degrade after some time due to orbital uncertainties. should be accurate over many months though. Jul 23 12:53:19 Shoragan: yeah even if it's a git pull made 1 days before -rc1 :) Jul 23 12:53:42 you've ported all the patches? Jul 23 12:53:49 rtp: I dont think we can do 32K Jul 23 12:53:59 rtp: well not without plkaying with pll frequencies Jul 23 12:54:06 rtp: as there is no dvide by six Jul 23 12:55:11 well, I have archive of rinex ephemerides. and some sp3, too. Do you know what programs accept such data? Jul 23 12:55:36 Dunno. Jul 23 12:56:00 I know I can get reasonable results from xephem though and the published TLEs. Jul 23 12:57:30 XorA: ok. Maybe the defaults sounds should be changed then :) Jul 23 12:57:31 I have algorithms which will integrate ephemeris, but no simple program which will read files and spit out data. Jul 23 12:58:17 rtp, i've just ported most patches (except alsa/soc) to 2.6.22, is your work published somewhere? Jul 23 12:58:22 I knew how to do this - just remembering the way through the interface. Jul 23 12:59:05 rtp: although 32K works on 2.6.21.6 Jul 23 12:59:41 rtp: damnation, Ill bet this is just a bug in what I do/dont reject at certain levels in driver Jul 23 13:00:19 Shoragan: see PV Jul 23 13:00:26 XorA: doh :( Jul 23 13:09:31 Okaaay - that now calculates and tracks the sats properly - according to my GPS all the right birds are up. Jul 23 13:09:46 Now to work out how to get it to output this data Jul 23 13:10:23 rtp: you have discovered bad range checking on my part, trust me to use someone elses code :-) Jul 23 13:11:54 rtp, we should try to avoid this duplicate work in the future ;) Jul 23 13:11:58 Ok - got it Jul 23 13:12:09 XorA: ok :) Jul 23 13:13:03 OK, finally I get an openmoko-devel-image, libgsmd does not compile with bb 1.8 but everything is OK with bb 1.6.9 Jul 23 13:13:13 no need to delete anything, resume worked Jul 23 13:13:22 Shoragan: I don't know how we can do that but I agree with this idea :) Jul 23 13:13:27 rtp: but the codec cant really do 32K so 2.6.23 gets it right Jul 23 13:13:39 announce it on the devel list Jul 23 13:13:40 rtp: unfortunealty I think by luck Jul 23 13:14:07 SpeedEvil: can we get the equivalent of GPZDA out of the gps ? Jul 23 13:14:53 Shoragan: iirc I did it long time ago on the openmoko-kernel ml Jul 23 13:15:20 ScaredyCat: pretty much. Jul 23 13:15:20 XorA: hm. So it's working on 2.6.21 even if the hardware can't do it ? Jul 23 13:15:35 ah, ok, so its my fault :/ Jul 23 13:15:44 ScaredyCat: sample line for me Jul 23 13:16:07 ScaredyCat, what is GPZDA? Jul 23 13:16:36 http://www.werple.net.au/~gnb/gps/nmea.html#gpzda Jul 23 13:16:37 Shoragan: you must check on the mailing list if I really did it before saying that. :) Don't also forget I'm not using linus tree as basis Jul 23 13:16:39 ScaredyCat : GPS BIIA-12 (PRN 25) sub lat -5:52:27 Sub long -105:09:12 Range 28573 range m/s 518 Jul 23 13:16:59 That's for a satellite just under the horison, and moving towards me at 518m/s. Jul 23 13:17:11 nice Jul 23 13:17:19 rtp, yes, but most changes are the same Jul 23 13:17:19 SpeedEvil - Where did you get that data? Jul 23 13:17:21 :D Jul 23 13:17:33 Ahh, probably heavens-above. ;) Jul 23 13:17:33 Elrond: pushing two line elements into xephem Jul 23 13:17:41 SpeedEvil - Ahh. Jul 23 13:18:07 I'm now working out how to get it to push out a nice table of alt/az/range-rate for a given location over a range of times Jul 23 13:18:27 rtp: I guess looking at my bad code it runs at 48K Jul 23 13:21:06 Elrond, does my explanation in list makes any sense? Jul 23 13:21:55 Dmitry_Platonov - Somewhat. I never looked at reg b, so I can't say. Jul 23 13:23:08 XorA: ok Jul 23 13:25:07 Shoragan: yeah, probably :) Jul 23 13:25:24 Shoragan: btw, you're in charge of the kernel now ? Jul 23 13:26:05 rtp, not really, but i told mickey i would try to port it to 2.6.22 and he told me to go ahead Jul 23 13:30:17 Shoragan: ok :) Jul 23 13:31:36 Elrond, did you experiment with bytes other than CMD23-L of REG 03? Jul 23 13:32:06 Dmitry_Platonov - No. I only tried the CMD23-L and reg5/6. Jul 23 13:43:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Supported_microSD_cards]] [[User:TimoJyrinki]] [[Talk:Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[FAQ]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] Jul 23 13:44:32 hi is anyone here from Openmoko internal? Jul 23 13:44:49 just wondering if my YES_I_DO message was received or not (starting to worry a little) Jul 23 13:45:34 you're not alone if it helps :p Jul 23 13:46:48 ynezz: thanks :-) Jul 23 13:47:33 definitely not alone....... Jul 23 13:47:41 you might hit some shippingzilla bug and so your email might ended in /dev/null or similar destination... Jul 23 13:48:45 ynezz: thanks for the confidence boost ;-) Jul 23 13:49:07 you should try to read some thread about shipping on community list Jul 23 13:49:11 it's fun :) Jul 23 13:49:57 random order shipping. but noone knows the rationale behind the sequence... Jul 23 13:49:58 I think they should have added a response when you send yes_i_do back .. Jul 23 13:50:24 or at least they should try to answer some questions on that lists Jul 23 13:50:32 s/lists/list/ Jul 23 13:50:33 ynezz meant: or at least they should try to answer some questions on that list Jul 23 13:51:00 now it seems, that nobody care Jul 23 13:51:05 Kero: maybe the order is the order of which they received the yes_i_do .. :P Jul 23 13:51:29 maybe. I doubt it. Jul 23 13:52:16 me too Jul 23 13:53:53 Anyways, got my payment received e-mail atleast :) Jul 23 13:53:59 I sent two emails in response to the original order. one of them somewhat unusual (no response whatsoever to that, tho). Perhaps that defers my order? To which position? 501? 1001? why? Jul 23 13:55:15 * Kero has received no email so far. Ah well, I'll exercise a little more patience... I can deal with it... Jul 23 13:56:22 what's your # ? Jul 23 13:56:39 sannes: +100 Jul 23 13:57:06 duffyd: ? Jul 23 13:57:27 sannes: that was a delayed response to your comment re. receiving a response to the YES_I_DO email Jul 23 13:57:36 sorry bit distracted over here :-) Jul 23 13:58:29 #1848 was my order number :) Jul 23 13:58:34 duffyd: ah :) Jul 23 14:00:30 is there any open moko forums ? Jul 23 14:00:46 s/forums/lists/ Jul 23 14:00:48 yes Jul 23 14:00:54 bassinboy: you should have a look through the community mailing list re. this Jul 23 14:01:01 bassinboy: it has been a hot topic recently! Jul 23 14:02:09 duffyd: Odd, i am on the mailing list Jul 23 14:02:10 now it's really messed up Jul 23 14:02:36 bassinboy: oh, strange you didn't see the thread - it's bit! Jul 23 14:02:49 the 'Community Mailing List' Jul 23 14:02:55 anyone have their phone where they can't screen to it? Jul 23 14:02:57 s/bit/big Jul 23 14:03:09 i'll get on that one :) Jul 23 14:03:16 cool Jul 23 14:05:56 *mumble* forum *mumble* Jul 23 14:06:24 :P ..... forums are much better than lists ;) Jul 23 14:06:41 If people write applications for my Neo that are just as bad as forums, from usability point of view, our freedom will give us a lot of bad applications.... Jul 23 14:07:08 there are a multitude of bad applications out there already Jul 23 14:07:12 why would this be any different? Jul 23 14:07:23 Hi, it's Monday morning at Fic in California right? Jul 23 14:07:40 Ycros: excellent point. That's why I'll have to help Jul 23 14:07:52 did openmoko get removed from the funambol 'community partners' list ? Jul 23 14:08:21 but meanwhile, I'd better shut up about forums, 'coz I simply do not understand what people like about them. Jul 23 14:09:58 forums are bad Jul 23 14:09:59 :o Jul 23 14:10:02 mmmkay Jul 23 14:10:06 I'm going to a conference in Raleigh North Carolina (US), on August 4th, and I'm wondering if there is any chance of having a Neo 1973 there Jul 23 14:10:15 Bricked_Neo1973: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Jul 23 14:10:20 yo! Jul 23 14:10:20 I have one on order, but I'm #2903 Jul 23 14:10:22 you broke it Jul 23 14:10:32 lists are not the best thing in the world either...people try to use them as a chatting medium - and that's what irc is for Jul 23 14:10:35 wtf Jul 23 14:10:38 their latest rootfs broke it Jul 23 14:10:49 :/ Jul 23 14:11:04 threw it on there and now I can't screen to the device Jul 23 14:11:23 I've seen google groups attached to mailing lists Jul 23 14:11:31 they provide a sort of forumish interface to them Jul 23 14:12:04 any ideas? Jul 23 14:12:49 install an older rootfs? Jul 23 14:13:04 juco, what kind of conference Jul 23 14:13:17 no, it was new Jul 23 14:13:48 at least I think so...I flashed the u-boot and uImage also...but everything worked fine after that Jul 23 14:13:48 I mean you could try an older rootfs... they may have regressed something Jul 23 14:14:03 it's when I did the rootfs when things took a turn for the worse Jul 23 14:14:12 but I can't screen into the device anymore Jul 23 14:14:15 don't flash u-boot unless you know you need to Jul 23 14:14:26 that's one way people really do brick the thing Jul 23 14:14:27 ScaredyCat: I'm hoping my Kubuntu 6.10 install will support the Qemu image :-( Jul 23 14:14:38 I flashed that last week, everything was fine Jul 23 14:14:48 Bricked_Neo1973 - Does it still get into the menu mode when you hold the AUX button while powering on? Jul 23 14:15:07 Elrond: Argh - xephem bug with many-element tables. Downloading/compiling new version - Jul 23 14:15:24 Elrond: yes, but I don't have as many choices Jul 23 14:15:26 Hey, it's Bill Gates' lover boy Jul 23 14:15:48 haha Jul 23 14:15:50 wow Jul 23 14:17:26 when I try and screen to it, it appears that it connects fine...but I just sit there at a blank screen. If I turn the phone off, it dumps me out of screen Jul 23 14:17:35 almost like the phone is busy doing something Jul 23 14:18:19 the phrase "screen to it" is breaking my comprehension filters Jul 23 14:18:37 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 23 14:18:39 XorA - Same for me. Jul 23 14:18:46 There we go Jul 23 14:18:52 sorry, "screen" to the device?!? wtf should I say? Jul 23 14:18:55 terminal Jul 23 14:19:01 whatever, you should know what I mean anyway Jul 23 14:19:07 ssh? minicom? picocom? Jul 23 14:19:12 Bricked_Neo1973 - ssh? minicom? picocom? Jul 23 14:19:14 and you have ordered a neo? Jul 23 14:19:29 XorA - Heh, you stole my question! Jul 23 14:19:31 ;o) Jul 23 14:19:39 heh heh Jul 23 14:19:42 directed towards me? Jul 23 14:19:48 Bricked_Neo1973: yes Jul 23 14:19:49 juco, you asked about a neo, i have two coming in (charged) - might be able to make this Jul 23 14:19:57 Bricked_Neo1973 - ssh? minicom? picocom? Jul 23 14:20:20 wtf? sure, i'll try using another terminal program Jul 23 14:20:33 Bricked_Neo1973 - Which one are you using currently? Jul 23 14:21:11 i use SCREEN SCREEN....do i need to say it again? Jul 23 14:21:29 oh Jul 23 14:21:36 Bricked_Neo1973 - use picocom. Jul 23 14:21:48 Bricked_Neo1973 - And press once after connecting. Jul 23 14:22:10 Bricked_Neo1973: screen is a terminal multiplexer, it has bugger all to do with talking to devices Jul 23 14:22:19 uh...okay give me a bit Jul 23 14:22:33 XorA - I think, one can abuse screen as a serial terminal. ;o) Jul 23 14:22:37 screen can talk to serial Jul 23 14:22:47 Can it? Jul 23 14:22:51 yes Jul 23 14:23:01 juco: are you still there? Jul 23 14:23:05 dtx - Nobody except Bricked_Neo1973 and ynezz use it for that. ;o) Jul 23 14:23:27 google pls :) Jul 23 14:25:33 ynezz - google does not like me. Years ago it would have offered me "serial screen" on ebay ;o) Today it would probably just guve me "Amazon.de: Serial Television: Big Drama on the Small Screen ..." ;o) Jul 23 14:25:47 'screen /dev/tty' for abuse report :) Jul 23 14:26:16 this is kinda like using a tower crain to crack a nut Jul 23 14:26:28 I like gtkterm (for cisco configuration, better than minicom. If you have X/Gtk). Jul 23 14:26:38 and you can save logs/sessions from picocom? Jul 23 14:27:10 ynezz - If I want logs/sessions, I'm using this serial daemon thingy. ;o) Jul 23 14:27:22 YAY openmoko functional on my qemu! Jul 23 14:27:29 well use what you want :) Jul 23 14:27:38 i'll stay with cu/screen :) Jul 23 14:27:38 ynezz - Exactly. :-) Jul 23 14:27:44 hum, where are the bottom images gone? Jul 23 14:27:45 thank you! Jul 23 14:28:04 Bricked_Neo1973 - What's up now? Jul 23 14:28:10 i'll try another since cu/screen isn't working for me...but I don't think another will work Jul 23 14:28:21 sry, have a meeting in two mins...i'll be back to report Jul 23 14:28:31 Ahh, okay. Jul 23 14:31:03 When you disconnect from serial and reconnect does it maintain the same state as before? Jul 23 14:31:16 I've never connected to LInux through serial, obviously. Jul 23 14:31:55 dtx: pretty much, but pulling the cable out tends to send duff characters, also a lot of the UART initialisation send duff chars as well Jul 23 14:33:00 dtx - the target keeps state. You terminal program might reset some state. Jul 23 14:33:15 XorA - Well, for usbserial, there shouldn't be any duff chars. :) Jul 23 14:33:32 Elrond: I hope not :-) Jul 23 14:33:32 usb is causing most problems to me Jul 23 14:33:59 they seem to have big buffers Jul 23 14:34:15 ynezz - u-boot via usbserial works mostly. Except for people pasting too much at once into it. ;o) Jul 23 14:34:23 hi Jul 23 14:34:24 and the packet nature of usb cause problems to some serial protocols like x-modem or so Jul 23 14:34:55 (it should be bad protocol implementation of course) Jul 23 14:35:09 hi there Jul 23 14:35:18 but the problems don't happen without usb Jul 23 14:35:49 I wonder where Bricked_Neo1973 got his neo from. Are they already shipping neos? Jul 23 14:36:16 don't make such jokes pls :) Jul 23 14:36:45 Hmm? Jul 23 14:37:00 i mean about shipping Jul 23 14:37:01 I'm a bit outdated on the shipping status anyway. Jul 23 14:37:32 Bricked_Neo1973 used to be jfreels Jul 23 14:37:50 and he said that he got the device about a month ago Jul 23 14:37:59 /disconnect Jul 23 14:38:50 wtf, choosing a health insurance (for USA) is one of the most exhausting experiences I had. Jul 23 14:40:16 Mrs Clinton will regulate that Jul 23 14:40:35 I'll vote Bart Simpson! Jul 23 14:40:43 bart > clinton Jul 23 14:40:54 ^^ Jul 23 14:40:57 o. j. Jul 23 14:41:29 bedboi: what does your health insurance cost you? Jul 23 14:41:50 bedboi: are you a spambot? Jul 23 14:43:43 dtx: unfortunately not :( Jul 23 14:44:01 writchie: http://barcamp.org/BarCampRDU Jul 23 14:44:02 sorry about that Jul 23 14:44:10 I got pulled away Jul 23 14:44:22 ewon: i don't know i'm not american, i'm leaving for the States this summer (2 months on J-1 Visa) and I have to buy an health insurance Jul 23 14:46:01 any news of UPS tracking codes? Jul 23 14:47:39 ozarka: you are correct Jul 23 14:48:37 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 23 14:49:07 so I got minicom running, but then what? Jul 23 14:50:24 haha I control bitbake now :D I have built a custom package in my own overlay :D Jul 23 14:50:37 finally after 3 days of hard work... :D Jul 23 14:50:38 Good job Jul 23 14:50:48 Now put up a simplified tutorial on the wiki Jul 23 14:50:59 yes plz Jul 23 14:51:00 Nice idea! Jul 23 14:52:08 But for now I will get back home ! Jul 23 14:52:26 bye everyone! Jul 23 14:52:29 squalyl, yeah a tutorial would be cool Jul 23 14:52:36 bye Jul 23 14:52:42 No problem, I will write that asap Jul 23 14:53:05 see you tomorrow or tonight Jul 23 14:53:11 any new news on shipping? Jul 23 14:53:35 Bricked_Neo1973 - Press enter once after being connected. Jul 23 14:53:53 Bricked_Neo1973 - But anyway, if you get the menu, you should be able to update kernel/rootfs via DFU Jul 23 14:54:03 yeah, DFU has never worked for me Jul 23 14:55:22 I always thought bitbake recipes were fairly simple Jul 23 14:55:45 let me try again since I have the new rootfs on there Jul 23 14:56:34 gonna go smoke some crack, brb Jul 23 14:57:12 is the bricked neo a P1? Jul 23 14:58:13 don-o - I don't know. Jul 23 14:58:24 I'm happy with my P0. :) Jul 23 14:58:45 p30n Jul 23 14:58:50 Elrond: :) Jul 23 14:59:39 rtp: what happends if you add 32000 to case statement in neo1973_wm8753 where 8k and 16k are defined? Jul 23 15:00:21 rtp: I think the speed should work, just I didnt understand what part of codec driver did Jul 23 15:06:42 ...any new news on shipping? Jul 23 15:06:50 it's the 23rd afterall Jul 23 15:07:58 * XorA really should sell his Neo boxes on ebay Jul 23 15:08:39 * summatusmentis would probably buy them in excitement Jul 23 15:08:43 mintee: I don't think anyone has received a Neo or a UPS tracking number. Jul 23 15:08:59 summatusmentis: one plane white Neo1973 box, £100 Jul 23 15:09:06 it's confirmed that they are going to send out a tracking number though? Jul 23 15:09:14 XorA: lol, YAY!!! Jul 23 15:09:33 supllied with OpenMoko CD :-) Jul 23 15:09:34 mintee: yes - from Sean's email Jul 23 15:10:20 don-o: bricked neo is a GTA01B_V4, I believe that's P1 Jul 23 15:10:41 mintee: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Direct.openmoko.com_order_process Jul 23 15:10:47 Bricked_Neo1973: you didnt flash u-boot did you? Jul 23 15:10:59 It says so in the wiki (UPS). Jul 23 15:11:08 i did that last week....i didn't have any problems with that Jul 23 15:12:24 rootfs is what i flashed today Jul 23 15:14:11 thanks ozarka Jul 23 15:14:29 np Jul 23 15:17:54 XorA: if it's like this : http://www.rtp-net.org/ipaq/neo1973_snd_32khz.patch, it doesn't work. Same error message :( Jul 23 15:20:27 rtp: hmm, looks like Ill need to delve into that Jul 23 15:20:48 rtp: is your .bb file anywhere I can get it so I can build a kernel and test tomorrow? Jul 23 15:22:30 XorA: I don't use bb. I'm using directly a kernel tree :) Jul 23 15:22:49 rtp: oh, how much of neo is in 2.6.23? Jul 23 15:24:25 XorA: I've my own tree and patchset. iirc only the sound is the neo specific stuff merged mainline :) Jul 23 15:26:21 rtp: maybe you could publish you patchset, I can get the 2.6.23-rc1 from git Jul 23 15:27:55 rtp: do you have a git-repo that one can pull from? Jul 23 15:28:49 rtp: do you have an alsa soc patch for the neo based on 2.6.22? or just 2.6.23? Jul 23 15:28:52 -rc1 Jul 23 15:29:12 Shoragan: alsa-soc for neo is in alsa-kernel repo Jul 23 15:29:24 Shoragan: I pushed it to alsa-project.org a month ago or so Jul 23 15:29:47 XorA: for the kernel : git://git.rtp-net.org/h1940.git and git://git.rtp-net.org/h1940-wip.git#neo for the neo specific part Jul 23 15:29:50 i can't figure out how to extract a patch from that Jul 23 15:30:29 Shoragan: just check out repo, replace the files, do a diff Jul 23 15:30:36 Shoragan: for 23-rc1 you don't need any asoc patch and before it was against 2.6.21 Jul 23 15:31:22 Shoragan: then shout at me when they fail Jul 23 15:34:36 rtp: I shall try and debug that problem tomorrow morning Jul 23 15:35:02 XorA: thanks :) Jul 23 15:35:18 rtp: Im figuring its probably a simple thinko Jul 23 15:36:02 ScaredyCat: ping Jul 23 15:36:07 pong Jul 23 15:36:24 XorA: I'll probably also upload a patchset to get quicker download :) Jul 23 15:36:33 ScaredyCat: I didn't have to turn mokobot off as I thought I would :) Jul 23 15:37:11 hehehe Jul 23 15:37:44 * ScaredyCat point at ScaredyCat hostmask Jul 23 15:37:49 not the diff :) Jul 23 15:38:00 650km commute this morning Jul 23 15:38:50 ScaredyCat: What's that in miles? Jul 23 15:39:08 what's a good name for a room with a pool table in it Jul 23 15:39:19 games room? Jul 23 15:39:30 about 410 or so Jul 23 15:39:34 the parlour Jul 23 15:40:26 ScaredyCat: 403.89127 Jul 23 15:43:38 rtp: did you port s3c2410_udc.patch? Jul 23 15:43:56 ewanm89_laptop: give or take a detour or 2 ;) Jul 23 15:44:07 lol Jul 23 15:44:22 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/de]] [[User:Aevin]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Finger_Scrolling]] [[Talk:P1_Owners]] [[Introduction/de]] [[User_talk:Aevin]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/de]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Secureoffice]] [[User_talk:Secureoffice]] and other changes Jul 23 15:48:39 Shoragan: I never needed it :) If you want a patch, take it from there : http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=3fc154b6b8134b98bb94d60cad9a46ec1ffbe372 Jul 23 15:51:32 * unknown_lamer ponders just writing his own phone ui using clim Jul 23 15:53:39 openmoko: 03laforge * r2385 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: Fix jbt6k74 resume: we need to enable display after entering normal state (Arnaud Patard) Jul 23 15:56:04 clim.... is that some sort of disease Jul 23 15:56:05 ? Jul 23 15:56:11 heh Jul 23 15:56:23 common lisp interface manager Jul 23 15:56:36 not quite as nice as the dylan uim, but close (given that it was the predecessor) Jul 23 15:57:38 * Sup3rkiddo still has his card uncharged Jul 23 15:57:44 ~lart fate Jul 23 15:57:44 * apt flings poo at fate Jul 23 15:57:45 * mokobot --purges fate Jul 23 15:57:58 * ewon is kind of glad he didn't re-order the GTA01 Jul 23 15:58:02 the suspense would kill me : Jul 23 15:58:03 :) Jul 23 15:58:17 so it is some sort of disease then... Jul 23 15:58:28 lol Jul 23 15:58:32 ScaredyCat: how so? Jul 23 15:59:20 the common list interface technologies Jul 23 15:59:41 huh? Jul 23 16:08:39 counter Jul 23 16:08:40 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 2 days 09:55:37 (2.414±2.4 days) (1771;250) Jul 23 16:15:00 anyone home? Jul 23 16:15:00 babble: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 23 16:16:18 what's up babble Jul 23 16:16:27 once we waited for neo to start shipping, now we wait for neo to be shipped. Alas! Jul 23 16:16:58 sup Jul 23 16:18:17 bwahaha, on the ML: "Did it arrive ? Yes!?! Aaaaaargh." (dies anyway). Jul 23 16:18:23 at work.. they've got irc locked out.. so I bust out the Treo and found an irc client... very much looking forward to an alternative to this Treo Jul 23 16:19:57 what is the email id of sean ? Jul 23 16:20:00 does anyone know what US carriers are available for the Neo? Jul 23 16:21:07 babble: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki Jul 23 16:21:11 babble: any carrier that supports GSM Jul 23 16:21:58 Which at least includes TMO and ATT. Jul 23 16:24:07 thanks Jul 23 16:24:24 was looking there but not for the correct words Jul 23 16:25:22 babble: You need to read the entire wiki. Jul 23 16:25:27 Several times. Jul 23 16:25:37 There will be a pop quiz later in the week. :-) Jul 23 16:26:16 grin Jul 23 16:29:42 oh, and if you fail - you don't get a neo. Jul 23 16:31:41 But you can earn extra credit by typing "Anybody get their Neo yet?" in this room. Jul 23 16:32:07 lol Jul 23 16:32:26 anybody break their Treo yet? Jul 23 16:44:00 looks like orders are sent at random and not by order number received at the time of order placement Jul 23 16:57:12 anyone else having that problem with MokoMakefile? http://nopaste.eof.name/182 Jul 23 16:59:44 does anyone know the status of the Funambol collaboration? Jul 23 17:01:38 I asked that on the list :) Jul 23 17:01:45 noticed the logo had gone Jul 23 17:02:04 and one more: will openmoko.com mail out UPS tracking codes, does anyone know? Jul 23 17:02:05 hhf423: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 23 17:02:31 ~lart aloril Jul 23 17:02:31 * apt gives aloril a "free" copy of Windows and then charges double for "Upgrades" Jul 23 17:02:35 does the neo1973 fulfilled the german EMV norm ? Jul 23 17:03:06 hhf423: yes, when they hand it over to ups Jul 23 17:03:18 (I guess) Jul 23 17:03:33 ynezz: you hope :-) Jul 23 17:03:37 s/when/if they ever/ Jul 23 17:04:01 grobian: who cares? ;-) Jul 23 17:04:19 15:30 seems to be ups cut off each day Jul 23 17:04:23 i do XD Jul 23 17:05:20 Anyone know of any tracking numbers? Jul 23 17:05:53 we in germany care about nature an maybe use some energy saving lamp Jul 23 17:06:03 grobian good question - it does feature the CC-label though Jul 23 17:06:03 hippy Jul 23 17:06:06 ;) Jul 23 17:06:22 it could intefear Jul 23 17:06:49 kristian-m, it should fall back to pulling the patches from svn... Jul 23 17:07:25 Shoragan it does, still should'n happen, right? Jul 23 17:07:41 kristian-m: what command did you issue? the kernel patch-set it tries to download is not where it is looking. Jul 23 17:08:10 the buildhost hasn't built the new kernel yet, so there is no svn-snapshot Jul 23 17:08:23 doh, I am annoyed as I can not see if _my_ credit card already got charged or not Jul 23 17:08:27 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 23 17:08:54 kristian-m, this is just how bitbake works :) Jul 23 17:09:01 Just spent >an hour trying to chase down an obscure bug in the xephem source, to generate GPS info. Jul 23 17:09:26 Turns out I misspelled favorite. Jul 23 17:09:41 CC-lable ok Jul 23 17:09:58 ~p1 Jul 23 17:10:32 you mean CE ? Jul 23 17:11:05 it's rohs, enough... Jul 23 17:11:12 Kensan i did a make update-makefile ; make update ; make setup and then make openmoko-devel-image Jul 23 17:11:42 CE label. Jul 23 17:17:13 grobian: your question is answered in the FAQ Jul 23 17:17:35 there is FCC and CE certification Jul 23 17:17:47 thank you Jul 23 17:17:58 CE is fine ! Jul 23 17:19:50 grobian any plans to re sell the phone in de? Jul 23 17:20:18 yes ! Jul 23 17:20:20 :) Jul 23 17:20:36 no just kidding Jul 23 17:22:13 I am sure that someone will re-sell the phones in .de. But probably not the developer version. Jul 23 17:22:33 gawd, I hate waiting Jul 23 17:23:05 could be a success selling it in germany Jul 23 17:23:29 probably, the first ones will be available via ebay :-) Jul 23 17:23:51 but at the moment there is nothing Jul 23 17:25:23 well I guess som people will take it as development platform for some strange embedded-do-something-and-transmit-mobile-buzz-project and re-sell the think for twice the price or more... Jul 23 17:25:41 so i got picocom running and it says Jul 23 17:25:42 yes Jul 23 17:25:54 Terminal ready, but I can't do anything else Jul 23 17:25:59 maybe for some crypt phone or something like that Jul 23 17:26:14 kristian-m: doesnt really matter, does it? If they dont sell the HW at a loss... Jul 23 17:26:18 Bricked_Neo1973 try to disable flow controll Jul 23 17:26:24 okay Jul 23 17:26:36 it is dissabled Jul 23 17:26:46 sandos i hope so :) Jul 23 17:27:06 still nothing (just to update you, updated rootfs this morning and now I can't terminal into the phone) Jul 23 17:27:17 Have there been any indications that anything at all has shipped? I guess if the payment confirmed rate on P1_owners is reflective of the mass, then you're looking at something like 600 orders being charged. Jul 23 17:27:22 Bricked_Neo1973 you try to communicate to the device or to QEMU? Jul 23 17:27:34 device Jul 23 17:28:34 Bricked_Neo1973 through usb-serial? Jul 23 17:28:38 yes Jul 23 17:28:51 sorry, I have a surprise meeting here at work...bblw Jul 23 17:29:30 Bricked_Neo1973 hmm no clue - bitrate comes to mind - minicom, screen, ... Jul 23 17:42:14 I resorted the P1_Owners page with the magic of sed and sort so nows it by order number. Do you think thats good or I should put it back? Jul 23 17:43:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[P1_Owners]] [[FAQ/fr]] [[Reader]] [[Web_Browser]] [[Development_resources/fr]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Look_%26_Feel/fr]] [[Look_%26_Feel]] [[IM]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[IPhone/fr]] and other changes Jul 23 17:44:01 i like it Jul 23 17:44:21 i like it Jul 23 17:44:37 i like it Jul 23 17:45:00 * ewon doesn't like it Jul 23 17:47:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hear_Me_FIC - I wonder what that's supposed to be... isn't that just pointless spam? Jul 23 17:48:29 anyone get a shipping trackig number yet? Jul 23 17:49:00 "community forums?" Jul 23 17:49:11 blah.. tell them to just join irc Jul 23 17:49:31 i hate all forum software Jul 23 17:50:55 no kidding, i wish i could mute the forum thread. Jul 23 17:52:02 * Sup3rkiddo shouts phpbb rocks Jul 23 17:52:22 yes tell them to join irc Jul 23 17:52:31 Sup3rkiddo, you must smoke them too ;-) Jul 23 17:52:47 :P Jul 23 17:52:51 daMaestro: yeah, IRC and lists are more than good enough. Jul 23 17:54:02 and a wiki, too ! Jul 23 17:54:16 Sup3rkiddo: ever tried to *run* phpbb? Jul 23 17:54:36 pjz, what, can't you get some sarcasm Jul 23 17:54:36 Sup3rkiddo: can you say, 'security nightmare' ? Jul 23 17:54:40 ~lart ojz Jul 23 17:54:40 * apt acting on orders from an unspecified client drags ojz into court suing for $200 million Jul 23 17:54:41 * mokobot decapitates ojz conan the destroyer style Jul 23 17:54:46 ~lart pz Jul 23 17:54:46 * apt judo chops pz Jul 23 17:54:46 * mokobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at pz Jul 23 17:55:06 * pjz LAUGHS as Sup3rkiddo fails to type his name correctly not once, but twice. Jul 23 17:55:16 doh!! Jul 23 17:55:23 * Sup3rkiddo needs caffeine Jul 23 17:55:32 * nbd laughs at people defending php kiddie projects like phpbb Jul 23 17:55:32 ~lart pj Jul 23 17:55:33 * apt whacks pj upside the head Jul 23 17:55:33 * mokobot installs PocketPC on pj's PDA Jul 23 17:55:41 i give up Jul 23 17:57:56 http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/techcake/889496 ... don't you just want to take a nice stab at that! :-D Jul 23 17:59:06 pft, spamassassin has troubles with the big-ish mail from Jeff Rush. Jul 23 18:00:07 hi Jul 23 18:01:30 night all Jul 23 18:05:54 ScaredyCat: I think one of those pages in auto faq reply does answer that UPS question Jul 23 18:06:16 calamous__: just got back from lunch. Love the sorted p1 page. Jul 23 18:06:34 I can see the charges creeping toward my name. Jul 23 18:06:48 This false sense of hope is making me woozy. :-) Jul 23 18:08:44 i was hoping some P1s would have shipped in time for OSCON Jul 23 18:11:31 kristian-m: I was always using screen, now that's not working and someone suggested using another terminal program Jul 23 18:12:34 Bricked_Neo1973: What terminal program? Jul 23 18:12:48 picocom now is what i'm trying to use Jul 23 18:13:07 no luck though....or I just don't know how to use picocom. Says "terminal ready" but I can't type in any commands Jul 23 18:13:30 Bricked_Neo1973: What did you use? Jul 23 18:13:39 screen, previously Jul 23 18:13:51 and it worked great till i flashed a new rootfs this morning Jul 23 18:13:55 screen is a lot different to picocom. Jul 23 18:14:28 picocom is a terminal emulator, screen is a multiterminal program. Jul 23 18:15:00 yeah, and screen worked great...i guess I just don't know how to use picocom *shrugs* Jul 23 18:15:29 picocom Won't do what screen can, it's for a different purpose. Jul 23 18:16:10 can I use it to flash? (rather, what CAN i do with it?) Jul 23 18:16:52 This screen vs picocom conversation sounds _very_ familiar... Jul 23 18:17:17 Bricked_Neo1973: It's is for connecting to a computer via a UART/modem connection usually, or similar raw connection. Jul 23 18:17:18 yes, and now i am trying to use picocom...not saying that one is better than the other Jul 23 18:18:04 screen does non of those things. Jul 23 18:18:40 ok, so once connected, how do I send commands to the device? Jul 23 18:19:01 Bricked_Neo1973: You have to send connection commands first. Jul 23 18:19:16 e.g. AT commands. Jul 23 18:19:35 atm Jul 23 18:19:39 openmoko: 03zecke * r2386 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Jul 23 18:19:39 openmoko: 2007-07-23 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Jul 23 18:19:39 openmoko: Switch to the newly created WebKit/Gtk API Jul 23 18:19:39 openmoko: * configure.ac: Jul 23 18:19:39 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Jul 23 18:19:40 openmoko: * src/application-data.h: Jul 23 18:19:43 openmoko: * src/callbacks.c: Jul 23 18:19:53 Bricked_Neo1973: Do you remember manually connecting a modem? Jul 23 18:20:05 no Jul 23 18:20:17 Bricked_Neo1973: How old are you? Jul 23 18:20:27 14 Jul 23 18:20:38 jeez, does it matter...heh Jul 23 18:21:30 nearly every new technology is first used to emulate an old technology Jul 23 18:21:46 Everybody watch their language. Bricked is only 14 and we don't want to expose him to ugly words. Jul 23 18:21:56 the first computer "network" was first used to emulate a dumb teletype Jul 23 18:21:58 yes please, I have a fragile little mind Jul 23 18:22:02 Just wondered, too young to know connecting modems then, at 18 I done it too many times. Jul 23 18:22:25 and so, this whizzy new cellular/gsm/utms/etc emulates a dumb hayes modem Jul 23 18:22:25 Bricked_Neo1973: You need the History lesson. Jul 23 18:22:44 HA, you were hardly born when I was programming on my apple IIc Jul 23 18:22:49 I've done it, but thankfully purged that memory from my mind. :-) Jul 23 18:22:58 Lovely thing a Dumb Hayes modem. Jul 23 18:23:17 i remember the joy of getting a 2400bps modem for xmas Jul 23 18:23:25 ozarka: lol, maybe time to remember again. Jul 23 18:23:33 lol Jul 23 18:23:38 i remember running a bbs off my pee-cee Jul 23 18:23:55 * * OM Bug 648 has been created by autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org Jul 23 18:23:56 * * openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svnnow-r1_2386-do_configure Jul 23 18:23:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=648 Jul 23 18:24:04 ckuethe: I've only done it with 56k after fighting with horrible winmodems for years. Jul 23 18:24:13 ok, so no one can help me? Jul 23 18:24:20 Then did fancy things. Jul 23 18:24:22 2400bps?!? Lucky. Jul 23 18:24:50 maybe i'll just go to the mall so i can feel really depressed about being old. Jul 23 18:25:22 Bricked_Neo1973: short version of the problem? Jul 23 18:25:22 you flashed a new image and now it doesn't work? Jul 23 18:26:06 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader Jul 23 18:26:10 correct...flashed the rootfs and now I can't use screen to connect Jul 23 18:26:18 screeen won't connect Jul 23 18:26:25 I have memorized that page, please, no one link me to it again ;) Jul 23 18:26:52 screen is just a way to run multiple programs inside one terminal, much like x11 is a way to run multiple gui apps on a physical monitor Jul 23 18:27:06 screen rules! Jul 23 18:27:34 you will need to use a serial program... like cu, tip, minicom, this picocom thing... Jul 23 18:27:47 screen can also do it Jul 23 18:27:51 ok, I don't need and explanation on what screen is. I was using screen to flash my device... Jul 23 18:28:19 i tried minicom, but I guess I need a lesson on how to use it (not what it's used for) Jul 23 18:28:21 Bricked_Neo1973: So it starts fine? Jul 23 18:28:29 Bricked, have you wikified your experience so far? Jul 23 18:28:38 no, never has booted...even the day I received it Jul 23 18:28:44 the short tour of minicom Jul 23 18:28:48 # minicom Jul 23 18:28:49 no, I have not, I will have too Jul 23 18:29:13 * ewanm89_laptop prefers minicom. Jul 23 18:29:18 can you get to the booloader? Jul 23 18:29:48 ^ao Jul 23 18:29:57 [serial port setup] Jul 23 18:30:03 A Jul 23 18:30:19 point it at your tty (/dev/ttyUSB0 ?) Jul 23 18:30:35 enter a couple of times Jul 23 18:30:37 Ctrl a o Jul 23 18:30:38 [exit] Jul 23 18:30:50 wtf? Jul 23 18:31:00 minicom.... Jul 23 18:31:08 okay Jul 23 18:31:11 after exiting from the minicom set up menu Jul 23 18:31:13 ckuethe, you don't need minicom Jul 23 18:31:27 true, you don't but i like minicom as a terminal program Jul 23 18:31:46 yes, don't need it, but i'm asking how to connect with it. Let me give it a shot Jul 23 18:31:49 Bricked_Neo1973, can you get to the bootloader? Jul 23 18:31:58 No sorry its Ctrl A and O Jul 23 18:32:09 yes Jul 23 18:32:24 DFU has never worked for me though Jul 23 18:33:24 ^aw is useful Jul 23 18:33:52 Bricked_Neo1973, which version does the bootloader display? Jul 23 18:34:47 1.2.0-moko9_r10.................july 4 2007 Jul 23 18:36:08 do you have a v3 or v4? Jul 23 18:36:21 4 Jul 23 18:36:30 GTA01B-V4 Jul 23 18:36:42 date code: 20070420 Jul 23 18:36:48 s/n: 000243 Jul 23 18:37:13 then select 'set console to USB' Jul 23 18:37:42 does nothing but take me back to the bootloader Jul 23 18:37:45 and run 'screen /dev/ttyACM0' as root Jul 23 18:37:48 u get a help in minicom with CTRL-A Z Jul 23 18:37:49 thats ok Jul 23 18:38:07 screen is not working with it now Jul 23 18:38:24 screen was working this morning, but not after a rootfs flash Jul 23 18:38:39 then check with dmesg if your kernel sees the neo Jul 23 18:38:59 you should have: "cdc_acm 2-1:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device" Jul 23 18:40:27 correct Jul 23 18:41:02 what did you use to flash the rootfs? Jul 23 18:41:19 screen Jul 23 18:41:46 screen with the jffs2 on the mmc Jul 23 18:41:51 ah Jul 23 18:42:08 are you sure that you used the correct partition? Jul 23 18:42:37 unless the documentation on the wiki is wrong, I just did what it states Jul 23 18:42:58 they always say that :-) Jul 23 18:43:02 what did you do? Jul 23 18:43:47 do you get an error message from screen? Jul 23 18:44:01 If you only flash the rootfs why would it brick it? Jul 23 18:44:36 no error message, OK was returned... Jul 23 18:44:41 dtx: that's what i'm sayin! Jul 23 18:44:55 somehow i get a lot of missung include-files errors after the last update Jul 23 18:45:17 i mean do you *now* get an error message from screen? Jul 23 18:45:56 what did he try? Jul 23 18:46:01 I have no backloh Jul 23 18:46:03 backlog Jul 23 18:46:09 no....screen actually seems to do nothing...I type the command in, the screen goes blank and it just sits there....when I unplug neo, the screen terminates Jul 23 18:46:10 flashing kernel over uboot Jul 23 18:48:05 oooh Jul 23 18:48:14 flashing kernel over uboot no es bueno Jul 23 18:48:24 if its untested Jul 23 18:49:00 hm I meant flashing the kernel uboot partiton with a kernelimage Jul 23 18:49:02 that's why they build emulators... well... if the emulator does not crash ones whole system ;-) Jul 23 18:49:03 do you get a prompt if you press return in screen? Jul 23 18:49:08 uImage != uboot Jul 23 18:49:30 Shoragan: no Jul 23 18:49:51 blinking cursor Jul 23 18:49:52 then your bootloader or environment may be damaged Jul 23 18:50:09 ok, anything I can do about it? Jul 23 18:50:14 what was the problem with dfu-util? Jul 23 18:50:28 ah! Jul 23 18:50:38 dfu never worked...before and after this Jul 23 18:50:49 do 'ls /dev/ttyACM*' Jul 23 18:51:02 are there other ones besides ACM0? Jul 23 18:51:25 nope, just ACM0 Jul 23 18:52:19 gtkterm does the same thing Jul 23 18:52:28 hi Jul 23 18:53:31 i imagine the device is not salvageable Jul 23 18:53:36 you can use 'dfu-util -l' to look for the neo Jul 23 18:53:57 let me try again... Jul 23 18:53:59 what does that say? Jul 23 18:54:30 give me a few...honestly I didn't try that today. It wasn't working friday though. Jul 23 18:55:10 it would help if you could be more specific that 'it wasn't working' ;) Jul 23 18:55:34 HA, i know Jul 23 18:55:46 Unable to join #openmoko-devel, is it normal? Jul 23 18:55:47 Rodolphe12: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 23 18:56:42 INTERESTING Jul 23 18:56:57 Rodolphe12: #openmoko-devel is for employees only, (due to some NDAs and stuff). Jul 23 18:57:17 Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=8, cfg=0, initf=2, alt=0, name="USB Device Firmware Upgrade" Jul 23 18:57:35 looks like I didn't do a rootfs flash this morning Jul 23 18:57:58 Do you know where the artwork/icons/ should be installed? (Trying to have the correct icons in openmoko-today under xoo+xnest local PC emulation...) Jul 23 18:58:05 last week it said something else....can't remember what though Jul 23 18:58:12 bricked lucky than :) Jul 23 18:59:10 any employees here? Jul 23 18:59:12 Bricked_Neo1973, that looks good Jul 23 18:59:26 looks good? meaning there is something I could do? Jul 23 18:59:33 grobian hm not at the moment Jul 23 18:59:40 get a uImage and rootfs from buildhost.openmoko.org Jul 23 18:59:44 bricked yes Jul 23 18:59:57 and uImage == kernel Jul 23 19:00:02 not uboot Jul 23 19:00:06 ewanm89_laptop: If I recall you've been playing a bit with the emulator... Did you manage to get a full system freeze with it ? (on exit for instance) Jul 23 19:00:11 so flash the right partition Jul 23 19:00:17 so uImage is what I want to load? Jul 23 19:00:18 * kristian-m got epdf-view running in QEMU :-) Jul 23 19:00:29 Markinoko: No, emulator has been fine for me. Jul 23 19:00:33 uImage and rootfs Jul 23 19:00:55 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070704215706.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 23 19:01:07 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/uImage-2.6.21.5-moko10-r1_0_0_2359_0-fic-gta01.bin Jul 23 19:01:10 download both Jul 23 19:01:20 ewanm89_laptop: do you use a generic kernel on the host, or do you have anything exotic ? Jul 23 19:01:40 then use dfu-util -a kernel -D uImage-2.6.21.5-moko10-r1_0_0_2359_0-fic-gta01.bin Jul 23 19:01:55 Markinoko: I have 2.6.22.1 vanilla on the host. Jul 23 19:02:01 and dfu-util -a rootfs -D openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070704215706.rootfs.jffs2 Jul 23 19:02:11 i wouldnt flash uboot! only if neccessary! my opinion. Jul 23 19:02:30 grobian right or with someone with debugboard near Jul 23 19:02:34 grobian, exactly Jul 23 19:02:42 ewanm89_laptop: then I may have stumbled on a bug with 2.6.21.1-rt1-tickless... huhu Jul 23 19:02:51 but it seems like the uboot is ok Jul 23 19:02:54 let's upgrade that crappy kernel Jul 23 19:03:19 Shoragan: you are the man....bblw, i'll give it a shot Jul 23 19:03:40 Markinoko: It's possible. Jul 23 19:03:42 hmm, pretty low level, no one in the icons install job yet? ;) Jul 23 19:04:38 bricked that stands in the wiki too Jul 23 19:04:44 wonder where you looked Jul 23 19:05:05 yes, but dfu wasn't working for me last week, so I didn't think to try it today Jul 23 19:05:30 does it say on the wiki, "if your terminal emulator doesn't work, try dfu"?? Jul 23 19:06:27 ah right you need access to the host-device use sudo or chmod Jul 23 19:06:37 Bricked_Neo1973: I'm pretty sure I saw that in the hardware list archives Jul 23 19:07:07 common mistake I fall into it sometimes Jul 23 19:07:16 Bricked_Neo1973: which BTW is a good place for bricked device recovery stories Jul 23 19:07:22 okay Jul 23 19:16:28 sorry, I broke the build :) Jul 23 19:17:43 he zecke Jul 23 19:17:47 you broke leg? Jul 23 19:18:18 woglinde: I just landed some bits of the WebKitGtk API and switched the feedreader to it Jul 23 19:19:38 last place I worked in, I set up a commit triggered build system that would email the entire team with the name of the person that broke the build :) Jul 23 19:20:26 ewon: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko a bug is getting filed and mickey gets a mail Jul 23 19:20:45 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 23 19:21:37 ah, utwente.nl Jul 23 19:21:40 good archers. Jul 23 19:23:38 hi all Jul 23 19:23:45 hi Jul 23 19:23:51 is the G1 already shipping Jul 23 19:23:57 yes Jul 23 19:24:06 gta01v4 Jul 23 19:24:10 do u have it in your hand Jul 23 19:24:22 yes Jul 23 19:24:27 what about the speed of the x11 Jul 23 19:24:34 * ewanm89_laptop wishes he could order one. Jul 23 19:24:40 its okay Jul 23 19:24:46 the qemu is very slow in booting to x11 environment Jul 23 19:24:59 woglinde: You should ask which benchmark he has :) Jul 23 19:25:07 i know about the speed, hopefully the neo is faster Jul 23 19:25:22 speed is relative Jul 23 19:25:26 docdoc: everything is slow in qemu. just get a faster host Jul 23 19:25:29 you can say its 10 or 20 ms Jul 23 19:25:31 what about the touchscreen Jul 23 19:25:35 cannt Jul 23 19:25:49 docdoc: e.g. debian is proud they can emulate a nslu2 with the twice the speed on a quad xeon system Jul 23 19:25:51 zecke faster host wick one Jul 23 19:26:09 wich one Jul 23 19:26:34 seems the vga screen is very beautifull? correct? Jul 23 19:26:34 woglinde your in de, right? - when have you gotten your ups-id? Jul 23 19:26:41 for people asking about tracking numbers: http://xkcd.com/281/ Jul 23 19:26:45 kristian aeh Jul 23 19:26:52 I got my as developer Jul 23 19:26:59 how many did get the phone already Jul 23 19:27:04 woglinde ah i see Jul 23 19:27:08 Kensan: :) Jul 23 19:27:50 aloril: this image should be added to 'UPS tracking number' trigger Jul 23 19:27:54 will the mobo from G2 be transferable to the G1 case Jul 23 19:28:22 no, p2 will be bigger Jul 23 19:28:29 * ynezz hides Jul 23 19:28:50 p2 = G2 Jul 23 19:29:20 should be same, but who knows Jul 23 19:30:18 zecke wich faster host do u mean for building openmoko on Jul 23 19:30:41 xephyr or xoo?? Jul 23 19:31:22 docdoc: You run qemu on your host. If your host is faster (think of more GHZ) the emulated system will be faster Jul 23 19:33:36 see u around Jul 23 19:34:14 what will the retail price be? Jul 23 19:34:14 Frostshoc: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 23 19:35:10 holy shit, its downloading Jul 23 19:35:17 lol Jul 23 19:35:18 bricked hehe Jul 23 19:35:34 /nickchange unbricked Jul 23 19:35:42 MAYBE! Jul 23 19:35:54 ll Jul 23 19:36:02 Frostshoc: USD$450 Or so Jul 23 19:36:30 Aria: ok Jul 23 19:36:34 YAY, "No error condition is present" Jul 23 19:36:46 so how long has this project been active? Jul 23 19:36:48 so now boot? Jul 23 19:38:40 still doesn't boot :\ Jul 23 19:40:23 i dont know. but does minicom show boot messages as soon usb is up? Jul 23 19:40:50 no Jul 23 19:41:26 ??? Jul 23 19:41:33 why you use console? Jul 23 19:42:03 you can see booting on the device Jul 23 19:42:18 well I just used dfu-util to flash the uImae Jul 23 19:42:21 uImage* Jul 23 19:42:46 you dont need a terminal programm Jul 23 19:42:54 ok Jul 23 19:43:01 and when I suggest you should try cutecom Jul 23 19:43:09 its muchbetter then minicom Jul 23 19:43:17 only send break is missing Jul 23 19:43:22 cool, doesn't help if NONE of them work Jul 23 19:43:22 or I dindt find it Jul 23 19:43:23 cutecom Jul 23 19:43:42 everyone has their own preference Jul 23 19:43:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Epdf-view]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] Jul 23 19:44:01 Bricked_Neo1973: read the wiki Jul 23 19:44:16 yeah one take 1970 citroen when he can use a 911 carrera Jul 23 19:44:25 i have, do you know what my problem is? Jul 23 19:44:42 Bricked_Neo1973: no, but i bet it's already covered in the wiki Jul 23 19:44:54 jesus....then quiet you Jul 23 19:45:12 take a break Bricked Jul 23 19:45:30 tomorrow as a new day Jul 23 19:45:37 I should, i'll go have a cig and then come back and whine Jul 23 19:45:47 lol :-(( Jul 23 19:46:00 *g* Jul 23 19:46:13 yeah, the only thing about tomorrow is, i'll have to explain the problem OVER and OVER again and get links to the wiki and arguments over what is the best term prog Jul 23 19:46:45 as you are yourself unable to even understand the ways to connect to the phone itself Jul 23 19:46:48 OH, and over and over "qemu?" and "how did you get that phone" Jul 23 19:47:00 lol Jul 23 19:47:02 I was doing it fine all last week Jul 23 19:47:32 I was connecting fine with screen up till this morning when I flashed the rootfs Jul 23 19:48:22 guaqua: do you have the device? Jul 23 19:48:24 no Jul 23 19:48:38 ok, well I have had mine for a month and it has not worked one minute of it Jul 23 19:48:55 so this is not so trivial Jul 23 19:49:08 but i could've hacked an iphone to run solaris with the same amount of energy you are using to ask the wrong kind of questions here Jul 23 19:49:36 Bricked_Neo1973 do you have a jtag-adapter? Jul 23 19:49:37 how am I asking the wrong questions? You're stating the wrong answers since you can't speak from experience Jul 23 19:49:41 Bricked_Neo1973 maybe the TX line of your cable is broken... Jul 23 19:50:02 my USB cable works fine, I do not have a debug board Jul 23 19:50:39 and also, bugging for attention with that nick only irritates Jul 23 19:50:45 doesn't help you at all Jul 23 19:51:18 better? jesus Jul 23 19:51:23 wanker Jul 23 19:51:27 going to ignore Jul 23 19:51:41 this is an engineering task. you cant force it! Jul 23 19:51:57 patience Jul 23 19:52:03 Wonder if there are going to be emails about actually sending stuff. Jul 23 19:52:04 I am just looking for help and sorry if it irritates me that I have noobs telling me over and over to read the wiki Jul 23 19:52:56 I can wait for someone else to have this problem, or I can try and fix it and post the results...we all win Jul 23 19:54:52 or you can read that wiki :) Jul 23 19:55:16 the problem is, the answer for me is not on the wiki Jul 23 19:55:42 it's about using dfu-util, right? Jul 23 19:55:46 I guess I just have a bricked device and I should give up Jul 23 19:55:55 send it over to me :D Jul 23 19:56:10 or that devirginator Jul 23 19:56:12 I first used a terminal to get the flash files off the mmc, then I used dfu Jul 23 19:56:44 I was successfull with both, but still don't have a working device Jul 23 19:56:54 terminal files flash, what? Jul 23 19:57:25 used screen, and used nand to put a new rootfs on the device Jul 23 19:57:32 ah ok Jul 23 19:57:49 so it's rootfs broken or uboot? Jul 23 19:57:52 now I can't use screen anymore...or picocom or gtkterm or minicom or cu Jul 23 19:58:20 well I thought it was the kernel, but I just used dfu to replace that Jul 23 19:58:27 and that didn't work Jul 23 19:59:42 so you have uboot working? Jul 23 20:00:04 well I can get into the bootloader, so yes Jul 23 20:00:19 so it's not bricked Jul 23 20:00:26 it's just fucked-up Jul 23 20:00:28 :) Jul 23 20:01:24 i don't know uboot but in other bootloaders it's possible to load kernel into mem by hand from flash Jul 23 20:01:41 and run/exec it from bootloader by hand Jul 23 20:02:27 someone should change the /topic if anyone gets an actual tracking number Jul 23 20:02:35 if I were you I would read more about booting proccess and uboot in general Jul 23 20:02:38 i've now been charged and still have no tracking number Jul 23 20:03:03 what's your # ? Jul 23 20:04:28 can the Neo1973 be turned horizontally and GTK+ applications used on it? Jul 23 20:04:42 if yes, how can I get this display on qemu? Jul 23 20:04:55 jfreels, what does it display if you boot from the bootloader menu? Jul 23 20:05:23 mbuf: the applications don't work in horizontal mode by default, but in the future it should be an option Jul 23 20:05:28 you should first see the bootloader displaying some info about the kernel, version, size... Jul 23 20:05:40 some work has been done, but mainly it's unimplemented Jul 23 20:05:41 and the a linux framebuffer console with the boot messages Jul 23 20:06:35 guaqua, because in ninjutsu part 2, i saw an image viewer application used by the "doctor" that used the phone in landscape view Jul 23 20:08:23 does anyone know if any phones have shipped yet? Jul 23 20:08:48 no Jul 23 20:10:21 nice question, i'd like to know the answer too. Jul 23 20:10:52 dietricha: when they do, you'll see a mark on this page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 23 20:11:11 ynezz, 1964 Jul 23 20:11:18 don-o: thanks sir Jul 23 20:18:55 thomasg: so someone already have received neo? Jul 23 20:19:23 thomasg: do you know their rt # ? Jul 23 20:20:47 ynezz, don't know if sb recieved. but many got charged, so the shipping should start. hope I'll have mine at the end of the week Jul 23 20:21:36 hm, its just wrong assumption I think Jul 23 20:21:44 no Jul 23 20:22:00 it looks that they don't started to ship it anyway Jul 23 20:22:10 I am thinking too that they will be shiped this week Jul 23 20:22:11 even if they were charged Jul 23 20:22:36 woglinde: that would be nice... Jul 23 20:26:38 ok back....dfu won't send anything to the device anymore Jul 23 20:29:14 jfreels: what you did? Jul 23 20:29:42 flashed it with the -R flag and now dfu won't let me flash again Jul 23 20:29:48 should have not used that flag Jul 23 20:29:48 hello, everyone. Jul 23 20:29:52 yo! Jul 23 20:29:58 jfreels: ok. but you still have u-boot working? Jul 23 20:29:59 pavelm: hi Jul 23 20:30:13 jfreels: unplug usb, take battery off Jul 23 20:30:26 jfreels: insert battery, keep AUX, press power Jul 23 20:30:36 jfreels: you should get bootmenu. Jul 23 20:31:05 Elrond: what's the longest GPS trace out there. I want to generate a file giving the doppler for each. Jul 23 20:31:09 yeah, I get the boot menu, then when I connect the USB, it doesn't go into flash mode Jul 23 20:31:36 jfreels: dfu-util sometimes does not connect by first time - retry then Jul 23 20:31:48 jfreels: as long as you have boot menu, you have machine, not a brick :-) Jul 23 20:31:52 jfreels: sometimes it need to be started with root permissions Jul 23 20:31:56 jfreels: try connecting using ttyACM0 Jul 23 20:32:01 jfreels: and -R switch is safe Jul 23 20:32:02 (minicom) Jul 23 20:32:16 yeah, minicom won't work...hasn't worked all day Jul 23 20:32:19 was working last week though Jul 23 20:32:34 (cutecom) Jul 23 20:32:37 as I said Jul 23 20:32:54 * hrw use minicom/picocom/cu Jul 23 20:33:04 in that order ;D Jul 23 20:33:43 none of them work, should have clarified Jul 23 20:33:44 hrw try cutecom Jul 23 20:33:46 one day Jul 23 20:33:47 speed: If you really want.. I can generate 4 hours trace. Jul 23 20:34:10 woglinde: does it support 'scripts' like minicom does? Jul 23 20:34:41 hrw hm oh Jul 23 20:34:44 dont know Jul 23 20:34:52 didnt know minicom has script support Jul 23 20:35:11 woglinde: 'script' == text file send over serial Jul 23 20:35:27 woglinde: handy for devices which bootloaders require setup on each boot Jul 23 20:35:31 you were correct sir....I connected/dissconnected over and over and eventually it went into firmware upgrade mode Jul 23 20:35:41 hrw cutecom has history support Jul 23 20:35:54 jfreels: as long as you do not fsckup uboot you are safe Jul 23 20:36:07 hrw try it dont know if it fit you needs Jul 23 20:36:14 a few month and none of my devices and gadgets has a proprietary OS :) Jul 23 20:36:15 woglinde: and do not support fullscreen apps. I just started it and it reminded me why I dropped it Jul 23 20:36:39 ah right one more cutecome has better linebreaks support Jul 23 20:36:40 jfreels: there's flashing openmoko page in wiki, perhaps you could write "what to do if something goes wrong" section? :-) Jul 23 20:37:11 I am alwasy pissed if cant see the linuxargs command line when kernel boots Jul 23 20:37:23 still no image newer than jul07? :-( Jul 23 20:37:23 woglinde: I need vi and mc working in terminal Jul 23 20:37:40 hrw ah right okay Jul 23 20:37:44 pavelm: you still unable to write 'make openmoko-devel-image'? Jul 23 20:38:06 woglinde: and this is when minicom comes. Jul 23 20:38:08 hrw: /dev/sda2 50G 48G 1.8G 97% /data Jul 23 20:38:17 hrw: / has 150MB free. Jul 23 20:38:19 :-( Jul 23 20:38:26 they're really determined not to charge my card. Jul 23 20:38:46 pavelm: I was thinking that you work for suse... you do not have any machines at company? Jul 23 20:39:09 pavelm: /dev/mapper/home--vg-homefs 396G 250G 130G 66% /home Jul 23 20:39:43 hrw: actually my coworker got buildsystem to work, so I guess I should use some other excuse. Jul 23 20:40:13 ;) Jul 23 20:40:40 ...but what about all those poor souls that bought neos now. There should be something better than jul7 image for them ;-) Jul 23 20:40:45 (does that sound good enough?) Jul 23 20:41:07 pavelm: what problems are with that image? someone reported them? Jul 23 20:41:09 hrw: In the meantime, I got python to work, so I can do developemnt w/o buildsystem. Jul 23 20:43:36 I have the VMWare image with a pre-set-up MokoMakefile env available as well Jul 23 20:44:23 And there's a chroot image availabe Jul 23 20:44:31 trying a new uImage Jul 23 20:44:57 hrw: Bug 606 is what I'm thinking about. I'd like to create "daemon" that producs sound on incoming calls... ...so that I know when someone's calling. Jul 23 20:45:27 hrw: But I guess I should be able to just cross-compile gsmd by hand. Jul 23 20:47:33 SpeedEvil - I guess, longtrace from ph5. But sphyrna's decode.py has soe issues on it. Jul 23 20:47:49 SpeedEvil - Shall I create a sphyrna decode output for you? Jul 23 20:48:19 too bad I couldn't swing by their place and pick up my neo :\ Jul 23 20:48:23 * vallor is in the bray area Jul 23 20:49:35 Elrond: ok I'll generate dor that. Jul 23 20:50:04 "dor"? Jul 23 20:50:15 typo Jul 23 20:50:34 doppler figures for that time/date/position. Jul 23 20:50:46 SpeedEvil - Ahh :) Jul 23 20:51:15 anyone here flash using dfu before? Jul 23 20:51:23 jfreels - Me. Jul 23 20:51:35 jfreels - Nicely documented at wiki... *searching* Jul 23 20:51:36 safe to do rootfs? Jul 23 20:51:55 * * OM Bug 649 has been created by pavel(AT)ucw.cz Jul 23 20:51:56 * * command-line parameter for dialing specific number would be nice Jul 23 20:51:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=649 Jul 23 20:51:59 I never tried the rootfs. Jul 23 20:52:04 would take a long time I would imagine? Jul 23 20:52:05 okay Jul 23 20:52:19 have you ever seen "Bad Magic number" error before? Jul 23 20:52:20 Yes, will take a while. But not tooo long with current u-boot. Jul 23 20:52:24 jfreels: few minutes, depending on uboot version. Jul 23 20:52:29 when you select "boot" from the boot loader menu Jul 23 20:52:52 Then the DFU went wrong. Jul 23 20:52:54 jfreels: look at "flashing openmoko" section. Jul 23 20:53:06 jfreels - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Jul 23 20:53:07 maybe I need an older version of uboot...I am using the latest uboot Jul 23 20:53:18 looking at that now....i have tried flashing several times Jul 23 20:53:22 two different methods Jul 23 20:53:26 still no go Jul 23 20:53:57 jfreels - Make sure to connect neo directly to PC, using the supplied cable or a known good cable. Jul 23 20:54:08 check Jul 23 20:54:29 everything goes fine during the flash, I receive the OK when done...it's just not working Jul 23 20:55:24 jfreels - Try a "bootd" on the u-boot usbserial, it will give you the output of u-boot, better for putting in a pastebin Jul 23 20:55:57 jfreels: be careful about flashing uboot. That's a known way to a brick. Jul 23 20:56:05 gotchia Jul 23 20:56:30 yeah don't flash u-boot without jtag Jul 23 20:57:09 happycube - Well, you can flash u-boot, if you're 100% sure, what you're doing. I did, after verifying all parts three times. Jul 23 20:57:59 *nod* Jul 23 20:58:20 ok, don't flash u-boot without jtag unless you absolutely sure it's not a bad idea ;) Jul 23 20:58:22 elrond I only looked double time Jul 23 20:58:33 *you're Jul 23 20:58:33 but I know where to get debugboard Jul 23 20:59:32 woglinde - Well, third time was "make sure a debugboard is within <50km ;o)" ;o) Jul 23 21:00:09 is there way to tell configure to produce static binary? Jul 23 21:00:18 * pavelm tries to compile gsmd. Jul 23 21:00:32 pavelm - ./configure CFLAGS=-static Jul 23 21:00:33 * pavelm got gsmd to compile, but it will not run, because it expect uclibc or something. Jul 23 21:00:38 ./configure --help should tell you Jul 23 21:03:39 ./configre --help is useless Jul 23 21:04:52 haeh? Jul 23 21:07:21 ....something still manages to pass -dynamic to libtool, so I get ...-static -static -dynamic... on its commandline. Jul 23 21:08:02 night Jul 23 21:08:25 pavelm hm Jul 23 21:08:59 night, ewan. Jul 23 21:10:54 ...ok, I managed to hand-edit makefile, good. Jul 23 21:14:34 normaly --enable-static should e enough Jul 23 21:15:10 are the modules required? Jul 23 21:15:29 woglinde: aha... Perhaps I should not have been using CFLAGS by hand. Jul 23 21:16:26 pavelm yes Jul 23 21:16:47 jfreels only when you need sound Jul 23 21:16:54 and mmc support Jul 23 21:16:54 okay, thank you Jul 23 21:17:00 but It can crash the kernel Jul 23 21:17:08 not having them? Jul 23 21:17:52 having them Jul 23 21:18:01 okay Jul 23 21:19:05 no FIC or Moko at oscon right? Jul 23 21:21:44 HA, "The software installed on your device is a factory variant with very limited functionality. In fact, it may not even boot Linux."...that's me Jul 23 21:22:05 *lol* Jul 23 21:22:16 never looked at that wiki page, since I didn't order it Jul 23 21:23:25 good luck guys....those of you that are waiting to get yours. Hopefully you don't have to go through this much trouble Jul 23 21:23:40 if I get mine working, I will document it Jul 23 21:25:01 uhuh. I just sent sms to openmoko. gsmd did not produce any event :-( Jul 23 21:25:36 gsmd should work? :p Jul 23 21:25:43 jfreels: look at "flashing openmoko" and just follow the steps. Jul 23 21:25:53 ...but be sure to select phase1 binaries... Jul 23 21:25:54 HAHA Jul 23 21:25:55 okay Jul 23 21:26:08 way ahead of you, buddy Jul 23 21:26:09 is your uboot new enough? Jul 23 21:26:32 that's what I'm having the issue with...I flashed using what I thought was the latest one...but that was like taking a step back... Jul 23 21:27:47 i'm gonna try another one real quick, before I leave work Jul 23 21:28:48 ok, so openmoko at least stored those messages on a SIM card. good. Jul 23 21:30:19 so there's a bof on thursday, but that's it. i guess that's something. Jul 23 21:30:23 http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/view/e_sess/14810 Jul 23 21:30:41 hold the phone....... Jul 23 21:30:58 I just flashed an older uboot file, but the date still shows the newer date...jul 4 Jul 23 21:31:05 Elrond: now on the wiki - the orbits seem to backpropagate OK to march - the positions match to within a degree of the observed GPGSV lines. Jul 23 21:31:11 the uboot I tried to use was from june and I didn't receive an error Jul 23 21:31:14 flashing Jul 23 21:31:20 Elrond: I was wrong on the rate too - it's around +-600m/s max Jul 23 21:32:01 that's seriously strange. Are you using the right commandline? Jul 23 21:32:28 SpeedEvil - Huh, that's in the order of this law restriction, isn't it? Jul 23 21:32:46 Elrond: yes. Jul 23 21:32:50 pavelm are there any messages generated at /dev/ttySAC0 on receiving SMS? Jul 23 21:32:51 yeah, and it succeeds, that's the weird thing Jul 23 21:33:12 jfreels: What commandline do you use? Jul 23 21:33:35 kristian: I did not check that. I believe smsnotification needs to be turned on via at command. Jul 23 21:33:36 dfu-util -a 1 -R -D ./uboot.bin Jul 23 21:34:02 speed: So you are decoding hammerhead now? Jul 23 21:34:08 kristian-m: and as GSMd is what's talking to the modem, you'll need to do that. Jul 23 21:34:20 jfreels: can you post/pastebin the output from "./dfu-util --list"? Jul 23 21:34:35 pavelm: no - this was taking current orbital elements, and printing out what the dopplers of the satellites would have been at that time Jul 23 21:34:40 jfr: Strange... that should work. Jul 23 21:34:43 Back in march Jul 23 21:34:53 kristian-m: hack gpsd that is Jul 23 21:35:26 kristian-m: hack gsmd that is Jul 23 21:35:27 Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=72, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="USB Device Firmware Upgrade" Jul 23 21:35:39 jfreels that looks good Jul 23 21:35:54 yeah =( Jul 23 21:36:03 =) Jul 23 21:36:20 jfreels: Well, you still have openmoko and not a brick ;-) Jul 23 21:36:29 I just flashed the u-boot-gta01bv4-r9 90........0 2198.bin file Jul 23 21:36:30 SpeedEvil well, i which i could... ;-) Jul 23 21:36:33 very true Jul 23 21:36:40 jfreels: so your neo is *not* in dfu-mode... Jul 23 21:36:56 Kensan: it is now Jul 23 21:37:14 jfreels: ok, then issue the command again, it should have different output. Jul 23 21:37:37 kristian: Actually, any gsm phone should have mostly same AT command set, so you can start patching gsmd now. Jul 23 21:37:59 why would the "-l" have a different output the second time? Jul 23 21:38:14 jfreels: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#--list Jul 23 21:38:17 if I go out of DFU mode, I see the 6 different interfaces Jul 23 21:38:27 jfreels: and this is ok Jul 23 21:38:34 yes Jul 23 21:38:47 so why are my flashes not taking effect? Jul 23 21:38:53 any ideas? Jul 23 21:38:53 jfreels: neo return 1 or 6 dfu items Jul 23 21:39:00 jfreels: kernel or rootfs flashing? Jul 23 21:39:04 6 Jul 23 21:39:11 u-boot flashing Jul 23 21:39:22 already flashed kernel and rootfs...no go Jul 23 21:39:29 they flashed fine, but didn't make my phone work Jul 23 21:39:40 so how it behave? Jul 23 21:39:54 I turn it on, I see tux and he just stares at me Jul 23 21:39:54 jfr: On some uboot version, erase of flash was neccessary before dfu Jul 23 21:40:02 jfr: but those were _old_ versions. Jul 23 21:40:07 pavelm i have to write a test on thursday, and have to hand in coding-course-solutions on wednesday - just doing a python websearchbot rigth now... Jul 23 21:42:04 flashed uboot again..."No Error condition present" is returned Jul 23 21:42:11 lets see what happens this time Jul 23 21:42:43 STILL JULY 4 WTF!!!!!!11 Jul 23 21:42:52 ok, I gotta leave work...I'll try again tomorrow Jul 23 21:43:05 bye jfreels Jul 23 21:43:12 jfr: Try asking around if july 4 uboot works for people. Jul 23 21:43:21 If it does... you do not want to touch it. Jul 23 21:43:32 will do, i'll ask tomorrow, thanks guys for your help! much appreciated! Jul 23 21:43:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] [[Variometer]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Ottawa]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Trondheim]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] Jul 23 21:45:01 bye Jul 23 21:45:24 bye, hrw Jul 23 21:48:36 does pin enter work for you? Jul 23 21:50:46 anyone at the camp near berlin, showing off his neo1973? Jul 23 21:51:27 camp near berlin? Jul 23 21:51:33 CCC ? Jul 23 21:52:15 harzi yes Jul 23 21:52:25 please read the wiki Jul 23 21:52:42 lazy peoples Jul 23 21:52:47 *g* Jul 23 21:53:02 i read the wiki Jul 23 21:53:08 ccc wiki Jul 23 21:53:11 CCC yes, hm let me check the wiki Jul 23 21:53:23 or camp wiki Jul 23 21:53:25 but i dont memorize it Jul 23 21:53:25 in the ccc wiki is nothing about Jul 23 21:53:40 camp wiki i mean Jul 23 21:53:47 sure? Jul 23 21:54:10 hm, don't hurt me, if you find... but i didn0t Jul 23 21:54:49 I will hurt you *g* Jul 23 21:55:04 https://events.ccc.de/camp/2007/GSM_Village Jul 23 21:55:45 ah, a village Jul 23 21:56:03 i searched the "Fahrplan" and stuff Jul 23 21:56:20 now I will hurt you Jul 23 21:56:27 *g* Jul 23 21:56:42 one week using win 3.11 Jul 23 21:57:41 counter Jul 23 21:57:41 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 2 days 07:01:06 (2.292±2.3 days) (1772;251) Jul 23 21:58:19 http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html Jul 23 21:58:23 german Jul 23 21:59:47 woglinde: oh, that isn't to bad, better than vista Jul 23 22:00:09 I have no problems with vista Jul 23 22:00:19 only lack of some 64bit apps Jul 23 22:01:22 join ##apple Jul 23 22:01:26 crap, sorry Jul 23 22:01:31 lol Jul 23 22:01:44 never played with it, but there are rumours that e.g. mobile-sync-soft works badly Jul 23 22:01:49 woglinde - www.badvista.org ;-) Jul 23 22:01:50 We're all friends here. No judgment. Jul 23 22:09:25 Is there an easy way to read line from stdin in python? Jul 23 22:09:35 ...I know how to read files, but this one needs to be interactive. Jul 23 22:10:25 pavelm - sys.stdin.readline() Jul 23 22:10:43 pavelm - Or do you want readline something? I'd need to check that. Jul 23 22:11:08 thanks, elrond. That does the trick. Jul 23 22:11:29 * pavelm tried to create "play mp3 on incoming call" software in shell, but it does not work for some reason. Will try python now. Jul 23 22:12:57 pavelm with zecke's python bindings? Jul 23 22:13:39 hello Jul 23 22:14:28 hi noon Jul 23 22:15:46 woglinde: No, with libgmsd-tool -m shell and lots of ugly hackery ;-) Jul 23 22:15:54 Hi, news on shipping? Jul 23 22:16:13 pavelm hm python bindings not good enough? Jul 23 22:17:16 woglinde: Never got to get them working... Jul 23 22:17:24 wog: Yep, shame on me... Jul 23 22:17:29 hehe Jul 23 22:20:05 wog: you know, dbus... too advanced technology Jul 23 22:21:47 * pavelm got it. It finaly plays sound on incoming call. Jul 23 22:21:54 heyhey! just had a call from my cc company 'we noticed a strange debit on your card for 309 USD" YAY! Jul 23 22:22:02 pavelm: everything is exposed via dbus, right? Jul 23 22:22:21 evenin' Jul 23 22:22:29 heyup Jul 23 22:22:37 * pavelm hates dbus. Too advanced ;-). Jul 23 22:22:41 I assume Dialer application talks to the GSM service over dbus, and receives rings as signals...? Jul 23 22:22:48 pavelm: I sure hope you're kidding :P Jul 23 22:23:20 oro: NOt sure, I thought it talks to gsmd via socket. Jul 23 22:23:26 yuck. Jul 23 22:23:28 radiorental_: Was shipping only 9 USD? Jul 23 22:23:30 that needs fixing. Jul 23 22:23:37 basic shipping in the US Jul 23 22:23:39 well, once I get my Neo I can fart around with this stuff. :) Jul 23 22:24:33 radiorental_: what was your order #? Jul 23 22:24:36 So, I'm a linux noob. I'm trying to build an enviroment based on the instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Jul 23 22:24:49 oro: actually it is not broken. Sockets are suitable for this thing. Jul 23 22:24:58 4 - Set up the environment: make setup Jul 23 22:25:27 and I get: make: *** No rule to make target `setup'. Stop. Jul 23 22:25:28 pavelm: using dbus means that you're factoring out all the IPC stuff; it also means that you can have multiple programs subscribe to events from the GSM daemon. Jul 23 22:25:32 what am I missing? Jul 23 22:26:14 what's the screen res on the neo? Jul 23 22:26:16 orospakr - dbus uses sockets anyway. Jul 23 22:26:16 ozarka: no order no. Just a call from my cc company that I've been debited 309, which is what the total was Jul 23 22:27:02 pavelm: and it would be more consistent with the direction of the Linux desktop stuff. Jul 23 22:27:07 Elrond: yup. Jul 23 22:27:45 oro: gsmd seems to handle multiple readers just fine, and it is right that it is not dependend on dbus. It is lower-level service. Jul 23 22:28:21 orospakr - While you are a dbus advocat: How's performance with dbus vs. dce/rpc over sockets? Jul 23 22:28:48 pavelm: the gsmd code i'm looking at doesn handle multiple app streams at all! Jul 23 22:29:02 Elrond: for simple message passing? the different is negligible, I expect. dbus is being used on other embedded platforms. Jul 23 22:29:09 it is used very extensively by OLPC> Jul 23 22:29:16 s/OLPC>/OLPC./ Jul 23 22:29:16 orospakr meant: it is used very extensively by OLPC. Jul 23 22:29:23 olpc++ Jul 23 22:29:28 ^5! Jul 23 22:29:35 radiorental_: what distro are you using? Jul 23 22:29:41 ubunut Jul 23 22:29:43 orospakr - I consider dbus for a server thing. Jul 23 22:29:47 hehe, sorry Jul 23 22:29:54 (I went through the MokoMakefile last week without to much trouble) Jul 23 22:29:57 writchie: are you sure? it seems to work here. Jul 23 22:30:31 elrond using corba? Jul 23 22:30:34 *g* Jul 23 22:30:35 summatusmentis: 480*640 Jul 23 22:30:35 7.0.4? Jul 23 22:30:40 corba is ugly Jul 23 22:30:50 I dont know what 'no rule to make target' means exactly but it sounds pretty fundamentally basic (o; Jul 23 22:31:00 writchie:what multiple apps work say fax + sms at same time? Jul 23 22:31:06 Elrond: sorry, I don't quite grok your statement. what do you mean exactly? Jul 23 22:31:13 woglinde - I'm currently using dce/rpc over sockets, homegrown, optimised. Jul 23 22:31:59 orospakr - I have a server box, with multiple daemons, they need to talk to each other. Jul 23 22:32:02 hmm, is there any kind of signal that incoming call is no longer incoming? Jul 23 22:32:12 Elrond: that is a good use for dbus, certainly. Jul 23 22:32:19 yes Jul 23 22:32:33 elrond whats dce for? Jul 23 22:32:38 all the synchronization and serialization needs to be in gsmd Jul 23 22:32:40 orospakr - Well, use: maybe. Performance is the question. Jul 23 22:32:41 Elrond: but it is also a good way for privileged daemons and user-level GUI applications to interact. NetworkManager is a good case study. Jul 23 22:32:43 and exported via dbus Jul 23 22:33:27 radiorental_ : Did you add all the packages in step 1? Jul 23 22:33:42 woglinde - dce/rpc != onc/rpc != corba/rpc. Different ways of doing RPC. Jul 23 22:33:59 yup, but there was one thing I didnt 'get'.... Jul 23 22:34:01 yeah thats why I asked about dce Jul 23 22:34:11 I am too lazy to ask wiki Jul 23 22:34:13 now Jul 23 22:34:21 What didn't you 'get'? Jul 23 22:34:22 Distributed Computing Environment. Jul 23 22:34:27 Old, very old. Jul 23 22:34:29 ozarka: on the openembedded page "If the ipkg-build script is not installed on your system, get it from here: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.packaged-staging/contrib/scripts/ipkg-build" Jul 23 22:34:39 how do I check that? Jul 23 22:35:02 ozarka: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro Jul 23 22:35:23 Elrond: nicks dcbw (Dan Williams) and J5 (John Palmieri), both on this server, are dbus guys. Jul 23 22:35:40 elrond all in c? Jul 23 22:35:48 Elrond: I'm sure they'd be happy to answer questions. Jul 23 22:35:50 woglinde - We need dce/rpc to talk to other proprietary services anyway, so doing dce/rpc for internal use was/is simple. Jul 23 22:35:55 gotta run! Jul 23 22:35:58 radiorental_: Weird... I didn't even notice that step and mine built fine. Jul 23 22:36:02 woglinde - Yes, all C. Jul 23 22:36:26 http://www.opengroup.org/dce/tech/ Jul 23 22:36:26 hm Jul 23 22:36:27 I'll go back and do it again tomorrow, thanks for your help! time to head home and dig holes in the lawn Jul 23 22:36:41 ozarka: thanks for your help Jul 23 22:36:59 np Jul 23 22:37:45 I don't think he's in the right directory when he's typing 'make setup' Jul 23 22:38:07 I mean, it should do something. Jul 23 22:38:19 woglinde - Yeah, opengroup still tries to get people to use dce/rpc. They even tried to opensource the main dce tools. Jul 23 22:38:23 Elrond: do you recrute new people for dce/rpc ;o) Jul 23 22:38:40 NooN - No. Trying to investigate dbus for possible replacement uses. Jul 23 22:39:09 I only did rpc with java Jul 23 22:40:05 ozarka: I' Jul 23 22:40:14 sheit Jul 23 22:40:24 ozarka: I'm in /home/moko Jul 23 22:40:36 radiorental_: Take your mittens off. You can type better. :-) Jul 23 22:40:55 tell me about it, fat fingered fumbler Jul 23 22:41:09 Is the makefile you got in step 2 or 3 in that directory? Jul 23 22:42:05 step 3, yup.. but doing it again Jul 23 22:42:24 Elrond: aah Jul 23 22:43:54 ozarka: As I said I'm a linux noob, I didnt sudo. Forgive me for this basic question, how do I permantly switch to super user? Jul 23 22:44:06 sudo su -? Jul 23 22:44:16 but dont do all as root Jul 23 22:44:23 no, why not? Jul 23 22:44:38 ok, this isnt the forum to learn linux, but thanks Jul 23 22:45:12 hm bitbake should yerk that you are running with root rights Jul 23 22:45:16 s/sudo su -/sudo -i/ Jul 23 22:45:17 thnx all, make setup now burning, I didnt notice the privellege warning before Jul 23 22:45:22 sudo -i should also do the trick Jul 23 22:45:48 good night! Jul 23 22:45:54 nite pavelm Jul 23 22:46:06 Good night pavelm Jul 23 22:46:19 is it possible to get 100MB/s through dbus? Jul 23 22:46:56 lol Jul 23 22:47:07 good night, elrond. (And good luck with hammerhead) Jul 23 22:47:13 woglinde: whats so funny? Jul 23 22:47:26 think about it Jul 23 22:47:45 Is there any reason Mokomakefule needs to be run as root? Jul 23 22:47:51 nope Jul 23 22:48:19 I think the directions on the wiki are a little confusing, then. Jul 23 22:48:24 if moko where closer to oe bitbake would jerk about it Jul 23 22:48:50 oh for the love of god: "svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection timed out Jul 23 22:48:50 make: *** [setup-bitbake] Error 1 Jul 23 22:48:50 " Jul 23 22:49:07 hehe bitbake Jul 23 22:49:18 radiorental_: try again until it gets through :( Jul 23 22:49:47 thanks (o; Jul 23 22:49:48 If you put the file in /home/moko then unless your login is 'moko' you need change user or the access to that directory. Jul 23 22:50:10 what's this /home/moko stuff? I just put it somewhere under my own home Jul 23 22:50:22 It makes no sense at all to make a "/home/moko" Jul 23 22:50:36 That's what I did. But the wiki says /home/moko Jul 23 22:50:36 woglinde - NooN's question is quite valid. It gets close to my performance question. Jul 23 22:50:43 which makes no sense at all. :-) Jul 23 22:51:28 elrond I dont know why you would send 100mb through an dbus approach Jul 23 22:51:52 ozarka: that's completely bogus advice, and will confuse almost all newbies... ~/openmoko makes much more sense Jul 23 22:51:53 Okay, that's the answer: Don't use dbus. ;o) Jul 23 22:51:56 * cesarb editing Jul 23 22:52:04 * mokobot mugs Jason1 for his neo and gives it to ScaredyCat Jul 23 22:52:27 its made for messaging not file transfer Jul 23 22:52:42 but maybe I will handle 100mb Jul 23 22:52:46 dont know Jul 23 22:53:03 Well, 10e6 messages/s of 10byte are 100mb/s ;-) Jul 23 22:53:28 *g* Jul 23 22:54:03 Any news on our Neos? Jul 23 22:54:24 You didn't get yours?!? Jul 23 22:54:34 You might want to call the 800 number. Jul 23 22:54:40 ozarka: funny Jul 23 22:54:51 ozarka: done Jul 23 22:55:03 Mokobot thinks you have one. :-) Jul 23 22:55:24 I would have bet that they would have shipped today. Jul 23 22:55:46 ozarka: mokobot is just jealous b/c I should be the first one to get mine Jul 23 22:56:20 My cc hasn't even been charged. :-( Jul 23 22:56:31 Nor mine. Jul 23 22:56:43 ozarka: aHHH. Now I see. It is people like you that are holding up the shipping process ;) Jul 23 22:56:45 * cesarb notices a commit from laforge... yay, he's back! Jul 23 22:56:51 Oo! Jul 23 22:56:52 Woot! Jul 23 22:56:59 I have a theory as to why nothing has shipped yet Jul 23 22:57:08 cesarb: please share Jul 23 22:57:11 Which is also a theory of why they suddenly got a better rate on the UPS Jul 23 22:57:19 k Jul 23 22:57:29 You must tell us! Type faster! Jul 23 22:57:33 Simply, they probably got a volume discount, which means they would need to ship everything in a single batch Jul 23 22:57:49 Wow. Sucks to be Jason1. Jul 23 22:57:51 ozarka: hey, I just moved my keyboard to the right, I didn't get used to it yet Jul 23 22:58:15 * cesarb wonders whether this speculation of his will make it to the counter Jul 23 22:58:43 ozarka: :( Jul 23 22:59:27 cesarb: I am sticking to my theory that something went wrong and they are re-flashing, re-packaging, repairing 1000 devices. Jul 23 22:59:39 Night people. Jul 23 22:59:43 Elrond: g/n Jul 23 22:59:46 nite elrond Jul 23 23:00:20 cesarb: Thats why they split the shipment from China. Half the factory is fixing, and held FIC America is scrambling ot fix Jul 23 23:00:32 Jason1: there's a hole on yours: they wouldn't need to reflash the phones in the fancy black boxes, only the phones in the plain white boxes Jul 23 23:00:46 The bulk shipment doesn't explain why they can only process a few cc's each day. Jul 23 23:01:03 Jason1: since the ones in the fancy black boxes can be reflashed by the end-guinea pig Jul 23 23:01:14 ozarka: Maybe b/c they exchange rates keep changing on 'em? Jul 23 23:01:18 ozarka: no, but it explains why there's no shipment confirmation yet Jul 23 23:01:25 But if they fixed one and charged one cc, why not ship it? Jul 23 23:01:48 ozarka: if I'm right, we will get a huge batch of shipment confirmations after all (or a large part of) the cc cards are charged Jul 23 23:02:00 ozarka: Wish I knew. FIC is REALLY, REALLY good at keeping quiet. Jul 23 23:02:12 Nearly as good as Apple. Jul 23 23:02:24 (and the reason for the slowness of CC charging is obvious: manual process, with only a few people doing it) Jul 23 23:02:27 cesarb: CCs are lookign fairly good now accoriding to the wiki. Jul 23 23:03:08 Aria: At least when apple leaks info, it is usaully accurate. Jul 23 23:03:23 I expect that as we speak they are handing over a big batch of shipments to ups. Jul 23 23:03:40 cesarb: It seems like 1000 CCs would be a walk in the park. Couple days work? Jul 23 23:03:42 I don't think they would have charged cards they didn't expect to ship next business day or two Jul 23 23:03:56 We can hope. Jul 23 23:04:11 Jason1: not if you go process each one by hand (no crazy batch scripts this time), print each label by hand, and stick it on the correct box Jul 23 23:04:13 writchie: I was charged last Wednesday... more than a few business days for me... Jul 23 23:04:40 3 is not a few? Jul 23 23:04:53 * cesarb wouldn't put it past them giving the cc charging task to a jetlagged kernel hacker Jul 23 23:05:10 the first couple were test cases. Most were charged from friday on Jul 23 23:05:51 writchie: ok, ok. maybe I am jumping hte gun a little, but come one. Even they were anticipating a faster delivery. Jul 23 23:06:13 things never work out has you plan Jul 23 23:06:14 cesarb: most likely. Jul 23 23:06:15 or didn't plan Jul 23 23:06:29 writchie: 'didnt' is more like it ;) Jul 23 23:06:41 i think harold was pissed because for a while the site was confusing. Jul 23 23:06:49 looked like this was a real phone Jul 23 23:06:57 writchie: he wrote it, didnt he? Jul 23 23:07:07 this will lead to bad press and disappointed user who had no business ordering this Jul 23 23:07:08 writchie: no, he was annoyed because he had to write it on a hurry Jul 23 23:07:15 writchie: I know he did all the shopping cart stuff Jul 23 23:07:42 yes he did it because he had to Jul 23 23:07:47 * cesarb thinks they got hit by Hofstadster's Law, hard Jul 23 23:08:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_Law Jul 23 23:08:30 i think he was trying to recover was a potential disaster. Jul 23 23:08:40 Jason1: yeah, I tyoped, that name is impossible to type Jul 23 23:09:06 cesarb: had to look it up :) Jul 23 23:09:33 So, are we still keeping odds on projected ship dates? Jul 23 23:10:01 will ship sometime in the future for sure Jul 23 23:10:58 writchie: Maybe they shipped earlier today, and the email server is clogged with all the tracking numbers.... Jul 23 23:11:13 hey, it COULD happen! Jul 23 23:11:29 More importantly. Jul 23 23:11:37 Has someone pressed the button on the next lot. Jul 23 23:11:47 good question. Jul 23 23:12:12 SpeedEvil: Well, next lot is confusing since the shipment from China was broken into 2 shipments AFAIK Jul 23 23:12:20 unless they're really stupid, they could have easily just printed up the airbills and forget about the tracking Jul 23 23:12:30 Next lot as in manufacturing. Jul 23 23:12:52 depends on real number of orders. Jul 23 23:13:04 many cards will reject the nt dollar stuff Jul 23 23:13:11 SpeedEvil: I think they should worry about the first lot first :). Actually they really need to order the next batch. Order are at 4188, right? Jul 23 23:13:36 ticket number 4188 !- order number Jul 23 23:13:38 writchie: the Fraud Depot called me... Jul 23 23:13:44 Depot=Dept Jul 23 23:14:04 of course - how many time you been in taiwan Jul 23 23:14:08 Jason1: pressing hte button on the next lot may be a completely core-team uninvolved process though. If they have got it setup for mass production, they have this sort of thing down. Making the phones isn't a problem. Jul 23 23:14:14 writchie: I know, but it should be around =(4188-1830) Jul 23 23:14:42 500 - 1000 is a small run - depends on parts Jul 23 23:14:51 SpeedEvil: true, so does that mean we get to blame FIC upper management? :) Jul 23 23:15:22 blame for what. These are really just a couple of thousand developer articles. Jul 23 23:15:33 under 1K were made Jul 23 23:15:44 writchie: blame for my discomfort Jul 23 23:15:59 :) Jul 23 23:16:03 i'm assuming they will run another batch to match orders Jul 23 23:16:23 i don't think they wan't to be stuck with these in inventory. Jul 23 23:16:56 no design survives first contact with real customers Jul 23 23:17:05 I dont think they were expecting ~2200 orders... Jul 23 23:17:23 Jason1: I think they were Jul 23 23:17:27 Jason1: but not as fast Jul 23 23:17:32 2000 phones is nothing. Jul 23 23:17:37 Jason1: they probably expected some 1000 a month Jul 23 23:17:51 typical model run is more like 100K - 1 million Jul 23 23:17:58 cesarb: What evidence of that do you see. From thee looks of things, it doesnt seem that they were prepared to ship more than a few hundered, if that Jul 23 23:18:05 * cesarb thinks that the fact that most people don't put their names in silly wiki lists made them underestimate the pent-up demand Jul 23 23:18:17 Jason1: no evidence, just wild guessing Jul 23 23:18:34 cesarb: I know, just playing devil's advocate. Jul 23 23:19:10 the software is 6 months away from being a usable phone you could give someone to use. Jul 23 23:19:50 btw - that is not a problem. Jul 23 23:20:02 design cycle for most phones is 18 months Jul 23 23:20:09 so, anyone get shipping information yet? Jul 23 23:20:30 daMaestro: yup, you didnt get your's yet? Jul 23 23:20:42 Jason1, no... don't think so Jul 23 23:21:01 daMaestro: Yup, should be here, someday. Jul 23 23:21:08 Jason1, nope... i got the "we took ur $$" message Jul 23 23:21:13 Jason1, but no tracking information Jul 23 23:21:27 it's coming up on end of day pickup for EDT Jul 23 23:21:51 daMaestro: nah, j/k. You know FIC, silent as usual. Noboday has got shipment info... Jul 23 23:23:13 i'm really, really glad i didn't splurg on next day shipping Jul 23 23:23:27 it would have been more then pointless Jul 23 23:23:31 daMaestro: Just rub it in. Jul 23 23:23:36 ;-) Jul 23 23:23:37 lol Jul 23 23:23:44 hey, i did get 2nd day air Jul 23 23:23:52 I got the super-duper express overnight. Jul 23 23:23:55 IMO, you have a cast-iron right to a refund. Jul 23 23:24:10 It was never said that the shipping would not take place next day Jul 23 23:24:14 at least a refund on shipping Jul 23 23:24:34 If you are in fact charged more for next day Jul 23 23:25:51 Apparently I picked the wrong option and got "Someday Shipping" instead of "Next Day" Jul 23 23:26:15 my mistake... Jul 23 23:26:17 someday express Jul 23 23:26:24 excatly :) Jul 23 23:27:20 Once it ships, it should be hear next day. :) My luck though, UPS will lose the package. Jul 23 23:27:31 doh! Jul 23 23:27:48 hear=here Jul 23 23:43:03 hey, is there a site that explains the qemu network thingy for noob ubuntu users? Jul 23 23:43:24 at the qemu site? Jul 23 23:43:59 well it's the openmoko that i want to connect Jul 23 23:44:00 Do you think they are waiting to shit them in batch? Jul 23 23:44:03 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[Talk:Mokopedia]] [[Translation]] [[User:Alekcxjo]] [[Variometer]] Jul 24 00:02:15 afawk know one has got the 'your item has been shipped' email yet. right? Jul 24 00:02:22 yes Jul 24 00:03:16 probably waiting until they have a large batch ready, then they can do them all at once Jul 24 00:07:56 Are they really waiting for a large batch before shipping? Jul 24 00:08:19 When I pay $50 dollars for shipping I expect my item will be shipped out as soon as its in a box Jul 24 00:08:27 nobody knows what they are doing - not even them? Jul 24 00:09:05 When I ordered on july 8th I though next day ment it would arrive on wed. There is no point of paying for expensive shipping if your choices are 19 days or 22 days Jul 24 00:09:26 calamous__: shipping is _drastically_ reduced Jul 24 00:09:30 they are going UPS Jul 24 00:09:49 SpeedEvil: If they do it in bulk? Jul 24 00:10:09 calamous__: Take it easy, have some patience. Jul 24 00:10:17 It is a lot less than originally Jul 24 00:10:25 But $55 (in my case) is still a lot for shipping to NZ Jul 24 00:10:39 It's not that much really. Jul 24 00:10:47 Hads: yes i know. Jul 24 00:11:35 It's a lot more than I've been charged for anything else comparable, and it is a bit annoying that it's costing that much and still not (apparrently) shipping promptly Jul 24 00:11:38 but oh well. :/ Jul 24 00:11:56 Arachnid: You can easily pay $300 to ship a carton from Australia to NZ Jul 24 00:12:00 Can't expect the world from a company that doesn't normally deal with b2c Jul 24 00:12:04 well... technically i've only been billed 1-2 days ago Jul 24 00:12:06 hads: What sort of carton are you talking about? Jul 24 00:12:16 It'd be a lot bigger than a cellphone to cost that much. Jul 24 00:12:34 Yes, but it's a lot darer too. Jul 24 00:12:37 The box looks 30cm*25cm*15cm Jul 24 00:12:42 What's your point? Jul 24 00:13:00 You can pay several thousand to have an entire shipping container sent internationally Jul 24 00:13:10 Doesn't change the fact that $50 for a cellphone is high. Jul 24 00:13:11 *yawn* Jul 24 00:14:20 * cesarb is more and more thinking it was really a good idea to wait a bit before ordering Jul 24 00:14:29 International shipping is expensive. Get over it. 30cm*25cm*15cm isn't small. Jul 24 00:14:48 This way I don't get the crazy order system bugs, YES_I_DO bash scripting, and confused shipping proccess Jul 24 00:14:58 * cesarb has an order number in the 3000s Jul 24 00:15:51 i just want a new phone i can hack on Jul 24 00:16:36 caesarb: Granted opening the site before they were ready to ship gave them a metric for the qty of orders. but I feel that they should have waited untell they could ship before they sold Jul 24 00:17:39 g.r.o.w.i.n.g. p.a.i.n.s. s.u.c.k. ... but we all have them at some point Jul 24 00:19:20 Can I ask a questing about broadband to someone who is not from the U.S: What is your speed and how much is it per month? Jul 24 00:19:51 anyone tried writing software for any other phones? Jul 24 00:21:07 6mbit and I pay like 20 bucks or so Jul 24 00:21:21 SrRaven: What country? Jul 24 00:21:28 the good old germany Jul 24 00:21:43 calamous_: supposed to be 300kbit/s but their limiter seems to be broken, paying about R$70 Jul 24 00:21:46 12/2M (12/3 nominal but cable limits), 70 euros per month. A bit more expensive than most competitors but static IPs, servers allowed, IRC support etc. Jul 24 00:21:50 Wow. In the U.S. I have 3mbs if i'm luckly and its $50 Jul 24 00:21:53 "The geek ISP" Jul 24 00:22:11 hads: I'm well acquainted with international shipping costs, having lived in NZ all my life, and $55 is expensive for what's being shipped. Jul 24 00:22:23 I've shipped bigger and heavier things for less. Jul 24 00:22:37 OK that's fine. You win. Jul 24 00:22:52 If anyone reads the NY times there is a good oped abut the Internet to home-users (end users) being crappy and expensive in the U.S. Jul 24 00:26:26 (oh yeah, and "not the first ones to jump onto the internet censorship bandwagon" counts as a plus for an ISP too) Jul 24 00:31:52 so is the openmoko framework already written? Jul 24 00:35:40 Babble, in-progress Jul 24 00:46:39 hmm: http://lunapark6.com/nokia-n800-now-with-skype.html Jul 24 01:02:04 Does anyone happen to know the bluetooth licensing fee? Jul 24 01:02:08 per item sold Jul 24 01:03:13 wasn't it covered in the chipset? Jul 24 01:03:31 I'm wondering what the fundamental is. Jul 24 01:03:57 i just guessing a couple of dimes Jul 24 01:04:29 at most Jul 24 01:05:38 * SpeedEvil is just wondering why he can't find cheap one-chip bluetooth solutions. Jul 24 01:06:24 SpeedEvil: perhaps because cramming both the analog and digital parts in a single chip is more expensive? Jul 24 01:07:18 SpeedEvil: (IIRC, there's a standard to connect the digital and the analog chips for bluetooth, so you could even mix-and-match with two chips) Jul 24 01:08:33 http://www.nordicsemi.no/index.cfm?obj=product&act=display&pro=80 - 3 pounds 40 IIRC in ones. Jul 24 01:09:01 I can't seem to find comparable bluetooth chips. Jul 24 01:09:56 the vast majority of BT chips are to handset vendors at around $2 Jul 24 01:10:31 you can find less than 1K qty for around $6 from csr Jul 24 01:10:39 SpeedEvil aren't there bt+wlan-chips - i would guess that what we'll get for P2 Jul 24 01:10:53 no Jul 24 01:11:01 atheros for P2 WiLan Jul 24 01:11:07 low power Jul 24 01:11:09 ah rigth Jul 24 01:11:09 I'm interested in other things. I want to make cheap bluetooth stuff. Jul 24 01:11:19 WiFi is power hog. Jul 24 01:11:22 Stuff like a button. Jul 24 01:11:36 Speed: BT standard or BT like Jul 24 01:12:57 I'd like actual BT Jul 24 01:13:05 Otherwise there are several solutions. Jul 24 01:13:22 zigbee Jul 24 01:13:40 for true BT Broadcom and CSR are best bet for small guys Jul 24 01:13:53 Zigbee is nice - but seems to be almost not existing. Jul 24 01:14:07 search froogle or ebay for zigbee, forex. Jul 24 01:14:26 writchie: Will look. Jul 24 01:15:02 can you live with BGA devices Jul 24 01:15:07 Unhappily. Jul 24 01:15:18 I'd love a DIP8 bluetooth-I2C module :) Jul 24 01:15:33 * don-o laughs Jul 24 01:15:39 It might actually be big enough to integrate a ceramic antenna - for dual win. Jul 24 01:15:39 can be done Jul 24 01:15:49 what price point and volume Jul 24 01:16:04 That's the problem. Jul 24 01:16:21 At the moment, I'm in ones and twos. Tens if it's cheap enough. Jul 24 01:16:35 * SpeedEvil has cashflow problems. Jul 24 01:18:01 class 2? Jul 24 01:18:10 version 2.0 Jul 24 01:19:25 At the moment I'm just wondering what's out there. Jul 24 01:19:47 national has some relatively low cost serial solutions Jul 24 01:20:02 free2move has some modules around $50 small qty. Jul 24 01:20:31 How easy is it to get small quantities of the csr parts? Jul 24 01:20:42 www.digikey.com Jul 24 01:20:57 Oh - I hadn't found bt stuff there last I looked Jul 24 01:21:10 assuming you're not after modifying the firmware Jul 24 01:21:23 best bet is stick with UART interface Jul 24 01:21:33 put your stuff on separate arm7 or whatever. Jul 24 01:21:46 you can get arm7 for a couple of bugs these days. Jul 24 01:21:51 and use open source tools Jul 24 01:21:58 Yeah. Jul 24 01:22:13 I really would prefer to avoid writing a whole BT stack. Jul 24 01:22:23 to work on BT at OEM level you need dev kits few thousand a pop Jul 24 01:22:47 nobody writes the stack - only rfcomm and above Jul 24 01:22:52 yeah. Jul 24 01:23:55 actually - you might need your own L2CAP Jul 24 01:23:58 Extremely tempted to simply say screw it, and go with the cheap nordic RF chips. Around a pound for each end of the link. Nice serial interface. Available in ones. Jul 24 01:24:17 Problem is of course - totally nonstandard. Jul 24 01:24:27 depend on what you want to do. Jul 24 01:24:40 have to do your own hopping or finding free channels Jul 24 01:24:46 2.4 junk band is a mess Jul 24 01:25:00 I would really like to make stuff that can connect to >1 computer. And bluetooth 'just works'. Jul 24 01:25:14 BT does a lot for a few bucks. Jul 24 01:25:33 the modules are out there - just need to find them in china Jul 24 01:26:11 BT works and has the numbers Jul 24 01:26:14 Yeah - not easily in ones and twos, been looking for a bit. Jul 24 01:26:24 need to look harder. Jul 24 01:26:42 is this for money or play Jul 24 01:27:04 play initially. Jul 24 01:27:10 Hopefully to actually sel. Jul 24 01:27:37 nordic stuff is fun and educational Jul 24 01:27:56 you work at a low level Jul 24 01:28:26 hardware needs to be thousands of units. Jul 24 01:28:41 i.e. for BT Jul 24 01:28:59 unless its for hobby market like robotics Jul 24 01:29:35 Largely hobby market basically. Jul 24 01:29:59 Stuff nobodies doing, but would be fun. Jul 24 01:30:32 can't beat a philips ARM with nordic RF Jul 24 01:31:03 For the sort of stuff I'm doing, AVR, or PIC might also match well. Jul 24 01:31:09 arm7 is making the 8051 and pic stuff obsolete Jul 24 01:31:32 too much pain when you can get an ARM7 for a couple of bucks and open source tool chain Jul 24 01:32:26 PIC programming model is way too ugly for 21st century Jul 24 01:33:07 ti 430 another choice with a decent programming model. Jul 24 01:33:40 430 is great for very low power Jul 24 01:34:39 PIC/AVR are both very cheap, if you can live with the low end. Jul 24 01:34:49 Also small, and light on power in 32Khz mode Jul 24 01:35:14 SpeedEvil: PICs are fun. I used to program with the 12F series Jul 24 01:37:00 when you can get an ARM7 for $3 qty one, why would you want the pain of a pic or avr Jul 24 01:37:24 writchie: what form factors is the ARM7 available in? Jul 24 01:37:34 Because I can get a pic for $1 qty 1, I know how to program them, and they come in tiny packages Jul 24 01:37:54 48-lqfp Jul 24 01:37:55 writchie: PICs are nice for startup projects because you can get them in DIP Jul 24 01:38:48 get a DIP board with an nxp on it. Jul 24 01:39:17 i guess it depends on what your time is worth. Jul 24 01:39:27 writchie: whats nxp? Jul 24 01:39:34 * SpeedEvil wishes nxp sold small quantities of stuff online. Jul 24 01:39:42 Currently stuck on a FM radio chip. Jul 24 01:39:46 nxp is renamed philips semi Jul 24 01:39:54 ok Jul 24 01:39:56 Can get them in packages of 380, but... Jul 24 01:40:15 how about package of 1 Jul 24 01:40:17 I2C - 8 pin - 8 passives gets you a FM radio. Jul 24 01:40:26 Do either of you guys prefer mouser or dikikey? Jul 24 01:40:33 digikey* Jul 24 01:40:36 neither stocks them Jul 24 01:40:43 digikey never ever disappoints Jul 24 01:40:44 I'm in hte UK. Jul 24 01:40:55 oh Jul 24 01:40:57 They both have horrible shipping charges. Jul 24 01:41:03 mouser is also good but not quite as organized. Jul 24 01:41:17 Speed: but sterling is up Jul 24 01:41:44 don't you guys have a digikey equivalent there Jul 24 01:41:56 f something Jul 24 01:42:05 writchie: farnell.com, rswww.com Jul 24 01:42:13 rapidonline.com is also good for some stuff Jul 24 01:42:20 yeah - they don't sell nxp in small qty Jul 24 01:42:24 But nowhere near the broadness of line. Jul 24 01:42:49 i've been using digikey since they their catalog was ten pages Jul 24 01:43:17 but all these prices are nothing like asia Jul 24 01:44:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Variometer]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Central_Florida]] [[Writchie]] [[Solar_power]] [[Camera]] [[Talk:Mokopedia]] Jul 24 02:06:31 ok.. so i see not party, so i would assume there are no shipment confirmations for today Jul 24 02:06:35 it is 7pm EDT Jul 24 02:06:47 s/not/not/ Jul 24 02:06:49 grrrr Jul 24 02:06:52 s/not/no/ Jul 24 02:08:25 heh heh... Typos on typos Jul 24 02:08:35 No charge confirmation for me, either Jul 24 02:10:03 i was waiting for the bot to backfire with my nice s/a/a/ Jul 24 02:13:06 I don't think it noticed Jul 24 02:13:40 Anyone tried to run qemu on windows yet? It may be sacrilege, but I gotta ask. Jul 24 02:48:00 aahh sacrilege :) Jul 24 02:48:17 'evenin' Jul 24 02:48:28 yo... Jul 24 02:48:35 nothin' new i gather? Jul 24 02:48:48 Nuttin Jul 24 02:48:58 Quiet nite in the chat room, too Jul 24 02:49:02 my qemu is still up from the other day :) Jul 24 02:49:09 my pc is too old for this Jul 24 02:49:11 :( Jul 24 02:49:19 Mine was up all weekend Jul 24 02:49:31 mines been up 300 days. Jul 24 02:49:37 :P Jul 24 02:49:50 dang... Jul 24 02:49:58 what are you running? Jul 24 02:50:24 I haven't been watching moko for 300 days, let alone run it Jul 24 02:50:24 i change out ubuntu version more often than that :) Jul 24 02:50:53 haha Jul 24 02:50:56 debian + fluxbox here Jul 24 02:50:59 for this week anyways... Jul 24 02:51:53 Hmm... Iphone pic http://poopforbrains.com/2007/7/23/crashed Jul 24 02:52:28 thats not a crah Jul 24 02:52:30 crash* Jul 24 02:52:49 looks like someone just rooted it, and ran fschk? hm Jul 24 02:53:14 "/bin/sh not found?" Jul 24 02:53:23 It doesn't look good... Jul 24 02:53:40 haha Jul 24 02:53:42 ln -s Jul 24 02:53:57 funny quote: a phone that can't make calls is crashed! Jul 24 02:54:15 openmoko can't make calls...ok AT commands don't count :) Jul 24 02:56:56 Openmoko can't make calls, since it doesn't exist... Jul 24 02:57:01 At least here, that is... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 24 02:59:57 2007