**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 24 02:59:57 2007 Jul 24 03:44:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Writchie]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Writchie]] [[Current_events]] Jul 24 04:36:42 Hallelujah! Jul 24 04:38:54 hello moko Jul 24 04:38:57 lol Jul 24 04:38:59 you know what? Jul 24 04:39:04 i want to go work for moko Jul 24 04:39:05 seriously Jul 24 04:39:17 i've been thinking about all the cool things one can do with the damned thing Jul 24 04:39:54 has the ordering been straightened out? Jul 24 04:40:04 moin Jul 24 04:40:56 holycow: I'm pretty sure you're not going to be the only applicant when the 'jobs' portion of www.openmoko.com has listings Jul 24 04:41:05 haha Jul 24 04:41:10 moko sad Jul 24 04:41:30 moko ordering emotionally filling pizza Jul 24 04:41:35 i want a job on the marketing team Jul 24 04:41:45 moko has new friends Jul 24 04:41:52 moko hates haters Jul 24 04:41:53 and on and on Jul 24 04:42:09 don't make war make moko Jul 24 04:42:10 rofl Jul 24 04:43:18 touch my moko? Jul 24 04:43:20 my god Jul 24 04:43:23 someone turn it off Jul 24 05:08:51 we know moko has an opening for a shipping clerk :) Jul 24 05:13:40 Jason1, done! Jul 24 05:13:57 hehe Jul 24 05:18:50 * daMaestro wonders if the "done!" is for notification that holycow rocked a UPS delivery truck and is sending all our phones via courier Jul 24 05:18:54 :-D Jul 24 05:19:06 rofl Jul 24 05:19:24 where are these clowns located anyway? Jul 24 05:19:26 taiwan? Jul 24 05:19:38 i've been meaning to take a vacation, i should just fly over ther eand help out Jul 24 05:19:39 lol Jul 24 05:19:46 :) Jul 24 05:44:23 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] Jul 24 05:54:22 http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/ubuntulive/index.html Jul 24 05:54:27 check it out mokomonkeys Jul 24 05:55:30 thats what i'm calling all you bozos from now on Jul 24 05:55:32 mokomonkey Jul 24 05:55:36 my mokomonkeys! Jul 24 05:55:38 muahaha! Jul 24 06:01:06 holycow: hey thanks for the update! Jul 24 06:01:38 nifty huh? Jul 24 06:04:35 yup Jul 24 06:07:27 awesome Jul 24 06:08:32 nice, #4188 Jul 24 06:09:33 ~2370 ordered Jul 24 06:28:02 Payment received! :D Jul 24 06:29:22 * jeddy3 wishes they would start sending soon Jul 24 06:32:49 i'm starting to think that i should have gotten the advanced Jul 24 06:33:09 the only way you can make your device useless is if you b0rk uboot right? Jul 24 06:33:53 yes Jul 24 06:34:14 and you shouldn't need to update uboot Jul 24 06:34:55 ok, good Jul 24 06:43:43 charged! Jul 24 06:44:36 * duffyd is envious ;-) Jul 24 07:21:25 hi everyone Jul 24 07:21:55 I just started a draft explaining how to build a bitbake package Jul 24 07:23:43 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources Jul 24 07:24:08 could you say what you think about it? It's not complete, I know Jul 24 07:24:37 Ah, I'm french, so if you find bad expressions, feel free to correct it :) Jul 24 07:27:45 morning Jul 24 07:43:51 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 24 07:44:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Denis_std]] [[Solar_power]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Mokopedia]] Jul 24 07:47:34 LarstiQ: nice sorting :) Jul 24 07:51:45 yep Jul 24 07:52:18 squalyl: nice! Jul 24 07:52:43 has anyone received their phone yet? Jul 24 07:52:43 blek: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 24 07:53:23 blek: I don't think so Jul 24 07:53:51 nobody has received any tracking number yet Jul 24 07:54:18 I've been getting emails telling me they haven't shipped mine yet... and now silence for 3 days. Jul 24 07:55:13 but people have received "we've charged your card" right? Jul 24 07:56:31 blek, right Jul 24 07:57:13 ~p1 Jul 24 07:57:37 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 24 07:57:44 feck me... Jul 24 07:57:53 I typed it faster than that! Jul 24 07:58:24 mokobot: mokobot is I'm so slow. Jul 24 07:58:24 okay, FuzzyCat Jul 24 07:58:46 ~mokobot Jul 24 07:58:46 I'm so slow. Jul 24 07:58:47 i guess mokobot is a lousy competitor Jul 24 07:58:57 lol Jul 24 07:59:07 I'm going to Australia on Thu, they better ship today or I'm gonna be pretty PO'd that it's sitting here for 5 weeks while I'm gone... Jul 24 07:59:30 * FuzzyCat slaps ewanm89_laptop Jul 24 07:59:48 FuzzyCat: Why? Jul 24 07:59:51 * ScaredyCat helps Jul 24 08:00:03 it's getting a bit ridiculous... Jul 24 08:00:13 Now that's ganging up on me. Jul 24 08:00:23 :) Jul 24 08:00:54 he's not happy Jul 24 08:01:49 Well he hasn't figured that he is debugging the OSDS yet. Jul 24 08:01:54 about http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001066.html, what is the "task-bootstrap" thing? Jul 24 08:03:23 (now I have succeeded to get an .ipk from my project, so I have to put it in the rootfs :) ) Jul 24 08:04:12 wasn't that included in the example (mokomakefile page) Jul 24 08:04:28 ScaredyCat: it wasn't me! Could be someone scraped my stuff though *checks logs* Jul 24 08:04:35 :o Jul 24 08:04:41 hi gys Jul 24 08:06:30 FuzzyCat: good idea, i'm checking Jul 24 08:21:40 rtp: time to find your bug Jul 24 08:23:12 hi there. Does someone working to embed ruby into openmoko ? Jul 24 08:23:32 moox: ruby is in OE, but I think it suffers bitrot Jul 24 08:24:20 XorA|gone: sorry, I don't understand 'bitrot' Jul 24 08:25:42 moox: not many use it, therefore it tends to not work Jul 24 08:26:00 mmh ok. Jul 24 08:26:11 moox: but basic ruby stuff should run Jul 24 08:26:39 I hope gtk bindings will work too Jul 24 08:26:54 moox: nothing like giving it a spin and reporting bugs Jul 24 08:27:00 * XorA|gone isnt a ruby coder Jul 24 08:27:03 XorA|gone: hi. I've sent you some mails about it yesterday. I'm not sure about the adress. Did you get them ? Jul 24 08:27:12 rtp: got one with a patch series Jul 24 08:27:23 XorA|gone: there's a second one :) Jul 24 08:27:36 rtp: that one seem to be AWOL then Jul 24 08:27:42 thre is a 'crontab' like in OE / Omoko ? Jul 24 08:28:23 rtp: oh wait, found one, you fixed the error? Jul 24 08:29:25 XorA: yeah, I removed a patch (asoc-platform-hw_init-pcm_emulation-fix.patch) and this patch seems to be needed Jul 24 08:29:54 rtp: feel free to push that patch up, I missed noticing it in neo kernel Jul 24 08:29:58 rtp: and its a clear bug Jul 24 08:30:10 Ruby runs fine. Jul 24 08:30:40 XorA: technically, it's not my patch :) Jul 24 08:30:54 Ruby gems management is a bit of a problem though. Jul 24 08:31:03 rtp: apparently anyone can submit a patch as long as Signoff statements are correct Jul 24 08:31:08 3)  If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from   Jul 24 08:31:08 the second batch of phones arriving next week. Jul 24 08:31:13 ouch! Jul 24 08:31:30 ewanm89_laptop: ruby gems are zlib compressed? Jul 24 08:31:37 ewanm89_laptop: what is the problem with gem ? It is a very usefull package manger Jul 24 08:32:05 I beleive it uses a touch to much RAM. Jul 24 08:32:06 XorA: yeah. I'll submit it then. It's just I was not the one being able to say if it's proper fix or a bad hack Jul 24 08:32:34 rtp: its a proper fix, Harald told me ages ago about it, I totally forgot Jul 24 08:32:40 ewanm89_laptop: do you think it is possible to add a swap file on the SD card ? Jul 24 08:33:12 it's possible, but it'll likely burn the card through quite a bit faster than if you wouldn't... Jul 24 08:33:26 moox: It is, and some people are, also manual install of libaries works. Jul 24 08:33:38 swap on SD works fine, and wont kill the card normally before the Card is worth like 10 euro cents Jul 24 08:33:44 mjr: I think the N770/N800 people use swap all the time. But I could be wrong Jul 24 08:33:57 XorA: ok. I'll send it this morning Jul 24 08:34:04 XorA, hm Jul 24 08:34:29 sandos: yeah, a lot of people are using a swapfile on their SD card on the n770/n800 Jul 24 08:34:31 mjr: as a practical swap on SD user for two years, I have real experience of not killing cards Jul 24 08:34:34 ewanm89_laptop: ok, so the best solution here is search the gem, find the dependencies, get all the required files and install them manually Jul 24 08:34:42 ok Jul 24 08:35:03 moox: atm yes, or get gem to behave. Jul 24 08:35:06 I guess the key is to not swap too heavily, anyway :] Jul 24 08:35:30 I haven't been able to receive a confirmation email from the wiki - makes it impossible to edit any of the wiki pages :-( Jul 24 08:35:33 just a question about 770 / n800 : is there a lot of differences between this 2 devices ? Jul 24 08:38:21 mornin' Jul 24 08:39:02 Stephmw: Morning Jul 24 08:40:48 hi Jul 24 08:41:49 OK guys. Serious talk. There will be a open source GSM/Wifi handover for openmoko. Thanks to my internship. Jul 24 08:42:02 2 things to start Jul 24 08:42:20 a what? Jul 24 08:42:47 a UMA thing to route GSM communications through IPsec Jul 24 08:42:57 This is a research project Jul 24 08:43:40 handover or forwaring? Jul 24 08:43:40 when you have wifi available, GSM streams will be routed by wifi instead of radio. Jul 24 08:43:44 forwarding Jul 24 08:43:45 handover Jul 24 08:43:51 it's a test Jul 24 08:43:57 to see if it's possible Jul 24 08:44:10 well, it is possible Jul 24 08:44:10 handover requires carrier support though Jul 24 08:44:11 it may if we can get the IMSI code from the modem Jul 24 08:44:19 I will have. Jul 24 08:44:33 Nokia Ericsson seem to have an open platform Jul 24 08:44:36 when will the project start? Jul 24 08:44:39 squalyl: modem doesnt havbe an IMSI, you mean IMEI Jul 24 08:45:15 I think we need IMSI also Jul 24 08:45:23 IMSI is on SIM and easy to get Jul 24 08:45:23 I'm currently doing some research Jul 24 08:45:30 fine then Jul 24 08:45:39 Ki secret key is not simple to get :-( Jul 24 08:45:59 what ar you talking about Jul 24 08:46:00 ? Jul 24 08:46:27 This is a feasability study for now Jul 24 08:46:30 grobian: to identify you on GSM, Ki is used to generate a key combined with IMSI, its this that auths you on the network Jul 24 08:46:32 maybe it will be impossible Jul 24 08:46:49 it's a try Jul 24 08:47:15 well, technically it is possible... Jul 24 08:47:16 XorA: thx for the information! Jul 24 08:47:26 orange do it... Jul 24 08:47:29 anyway, nice to have people working on that, of course Jul 24 08:47:47 thanks Jul 24 08:48:02 It will be an opensource project, no need to specify this... Jul 24 08:48:05 grobian: CCC have a full description and details of how to recover keys from old SIM :-) Jul 24 08:48:27 any link is welcome, if you have it. I'm new to all this stuff Jul 24 08:48:35 okay Jul 24 08:48:53 chaos computer Club? Jul 24 08:50:08 * squalyl searching Jul 24 08:50:14 grobian: yes Jul 24 08:52:59 I don't speak a single word of german ! Jul 24 08:53:12 when i look at some source code. i ask myself the question if some editors or ide`s dont have a real tab function. When i open it with vim Jul 24 08:53:15 squalyl: translate.google.com ? Jul 24 08:53:27 good idea :D Jul 24 08:54:07 think ist this :http://www.ccc.de/gsm/ Jul 24 08:54:11 squalyl: neither do I, but I still visit the CCC congress et al Jul 24 08:55:49 something about ki (english) http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/isaac/gsm-faq.html Jul 24 08:57:13 thanks Jul 24 08:58:56 * * OM Bug 650 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com Jul 24 08:58:57 * * No dfu-util component in bugzilla Jul 24 08:58:58 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=650 Jul 24 08:59:05 The important thing for now (I have to write a report) is the quality of voice at the output of the modem Jul 24 09:00:47 How can I get some WAV samples recorded from modem's audio output? I don't have a phone for now Jul 24 09:02:55 * * OM Bug 651 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com Jul 24 09:02:56 * * til - configure.ac uses PKG_CHECK_MODULES which is not available here Jul 24 09:02:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=651 Jul 24 09:03:55 * * OM Bug 652 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com Jul 24 09:03:56 * * til - reset command doesn't take argument Jul 24 09:03:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=652 Jul 24 09:04:07 LarstiQ: I found this page. translated it, it's interesting Jul 24 09:04:55 * * OM Bug 653 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com Jul 24 09:04:56 * * til - Some devices boot up in a DFU state instead of app state Jul 24 09:04:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=653 Jul 24 09:07:07 Still fighting with bitbake config: WHERE is the list of packages that get included in the root image X_X ? Jul 24 09:08:56 * * OM Bug 654 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com Jul 24 09:08:57 * * til - transfer-size setting code rearranged Jul 24 09:08:58 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=654 Jul 24 09:10:29 hm forget to attach the patch? Jul 24 09:10:48 forgot even Jul 24 09:11:21 ah no Jul 24 09:11:27 ~lart bugzilla Jul 24 09:11:28 * apt shoots bugzilla in his sleep Jul 24 09:11:28 * mokobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at bugzilla Jul 24 09:12:56 * * OM Bug 655 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com Jul 24 09:12:57 * * til - to quick, add sleep Jul 24 09:12:58 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=655 Jul 24 09:13:05 ~lart himself Jul 24 09:13:05 * apt drops a humongous exploding nuke on himself Jul 24 09:13:05 * mokobot drops a baby grand on himself Jul 24 09:14:30 ohhh... what is this in my inbox, .. yip, spam :P Jul 24 09:14:55 ups tracking number? Jul 24 09:17:05 woglinde: I wouldn't consider that spam, but I have been checking out my mail a lot more lately Jul 24 09:17:16 *g* Jul 24 09:17:33 its like christmas *g* Jul 24 09:19:38 yes, except you don't know when you are getting your presents ... hehe Jul 24 09:31:55 sannes: http://xkcd.com/281/ Jul 24 09:37:40 hmmm, looks like the guys shipping are not near #2800 yet Jul 24 09:38:13 so for the past couple days ive sort of been getting pissed that my order hasnt been processed Jul 24 09:38:26 im 1843 Jul 24 09:38:27 * hhf423 wonder if he should just take a week off and help the guys shipping off the phone Jul 24 09:38:51 i replied to williams email asking why i havent been charged Jul 24 09:38:57 apparently my card was denied Jul 24 09:39:08 spelled the street address wrong on the order Jul 24 09:39:10 autch Jul 24 09:39:13 for billing info Jul 24 09:39:33 but they didn't tell you ? Jul 24 09:39:45 no, i had to ask what happened Jul 24 09:40:32 * FuzzyCat sighs Jul 24 09:44:35 he cancelled my old order, had me resubmit a new order and hes having the new merged wtih the old so hopefully i should still get in on the first batch Jul 24 09:45:02 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hear_Me_FIC]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List]] [[Main_Page]] Jul 24 09:46:03 Sublime: could be worse, the system merely swallowed my order whole Jul 24 09:52:22 hi Jul 24 09:55:00 hi Jul 24 09:56:27 <[psy]> w00t Jul 24 09:56:28 <[psy]> :) Jul 24 09:56:39 =) Jul 24 09:57:37 <[psy]> lol i just saw the move where they showed that mplayer wasnt working just yet :) Jul 24 09:57:46 <[psy]> but it will be fixed Jul 24 09:57:56 <[psy]> a normal company would never show that :P Jul 24 09:58:08 what movie? Jul 24 09:58:12 havent seen that one Jul 24 09:58:27 <[psy]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo&mode=related&search= Jul 24 09:58:29 the one with 1 frame a week ? Jul 24 09:58:36 <[psy]> yep Jul 24 09:58:37 <[psy]> :) Jul 24 09:58:44 <[psy]> one frame a second Jul 24 09:58:53 <[psy]> but its cool that they show it anyway Jul 24 09:59:03 <[psy]> and dont use the usualy marketing tricks Jul 24 09:59:05 week/second it's just about the same when you're watching a movie Jul 24 09:59:15 <[psy]> :) Jul 24 09:59:30 <[psy]> this is just the beginning :) Jul 24 09:59:31 but that movie _seems_ to have resolution higher than qvga...so hopefully qvga will be a little better Jul 24 09:59:32 there's some funny ones too Jul 24 09:59:39 <[psy]> wait for version 2 , 3 etc :) Jul 24 10:00:03 and imho qvga is quite enough for a movie Jul 24 10:00:04 if we could wait we wouldn't be developers ;) Jul 24 10:00:12 counter Jul 24 10:00:12 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 2 days 00:59:51 (2.042±2.0 days) (1773;251) Jul 24 10:00:29 FuzzyCat: haha Jul 24 10:00:31 good point Jul 24 10:00:50 i could tell you that bevore i saw this film on youtube Jul 24 10:01:30 mokobot, can i has a tracking number? Jul 24 10:01:30 No. Jul 24 10:01:34 :( Jul 24 10:01:37 ;) Jul 24 10:01:41 :) Jul 24 10:02:24 mokobot, can you make coffee? Jul 24 10:04:13 <[psy]> openmoko - marketed by engineers :) Jul 24 10:06:02 Neo - "its almost fast" Jul 24 10:06:09 from the part 1 of ninjutsu Jul 24 10:06:19 I'm not sure that will fly marketing-wise Jul 24 10:06:20 <[psy]> yes :D Jul 24 10:06:22 ;) Jul 24 10:06:29 <[psy]> thats pretty cool Jul 24 10:06:45 <[psy]> marketing would translate that in: its the fastest phone in the world! Jul 24 10:06:51 of course ;) Jul 24 10:06:54 <[psy]> heheh Jul 24 10:08:10 :) Jul 24 10:08:16 <[psy]> What you CAN NOT expect yet: reliable means of making phone calls, esp. not from the UI Jul 24 10:08:17 <[psy]> :D Jul 24 10:08:31 <[psy]> root@openmoke # dail 911 Jul 24 10:08:48 hehe Jul 24 10:08:49 lol Jul 24 10:08:57 <[psy]> root@openmoke # dail 911 --aout /dev/dsp0 --ain /dev/dsp0 --bla Jul 24 10:09:02 <[psy]> ;) Jul 24 10:09:04 I hope it's not too easy to dial 911, because that phone number means nothing at all around here ;-) Jul 24 10:09:09 <[psy]> i want one tough Jul 24 10:09:23 (OTOH, the GSM international equivalent would make a lot more sense) Jul 24 10:09:48 112 in Sweden. What is the international thing then? Jul 24 10:09:55 112 is europe Jul 24 10:09:59 yeah Jul 24 10:10:15 For local use, an "emergency menu" with the several emergency numbers (190 = police, 192 = ambulance, 193 = firefighters, etc) would be great Jul 24 10:10:38 woglinde: IIRC, 112 is not only europe, but should work for any GSM phone anywhere Jul 24 10:10:48 woglinde: (but only GSM) Jul 24 10:10:53 yeah right Jul 24 10:10:54 sorry Jul 24 10:12:30 it also works in the uk Jul 24 10:12:41 where 999 is the normal number Jul 24 10:12:50 but you can use 112 too Jul 24 10:13:57 but apparently there are only about 180 genuine 112 calls, the rest are people seing if it's true Jul 24 10:14:27 (per week that is) Jul 24 10:16:02 "The introduction of 112 to the UK telephone network did cause some problems that resulted from fault conditions and misuse of customer premises equipment. In particular, spurious ‘1s’ and ‘2s’ could be caused by line or equipment faults, or by repeated tapping of handset switches on lines with loop-disconnect signalling, causing false calls to the emergency operator" Jul 24 10:16:19 lol Jul 24 10:16:32 whcih is why 999 was chosen in the first place Jul 24 10:16:37 to avoid that Jul 24 10:18:08 I bet 999 was a major pain in the ass to ring on a rotary phone Jul 24 10:18:16 is was slow Jul 24 10:19:16 hi ph5 Jul 24 10:19:35 morning woglinde Jul 24 10:24:05 counter Jul 24 10:24:05 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 2 days 00:47:54 (2.033±2.0 days) (1774;251) Jul 24 10:28:50 Dmitry_Platonov - Unless you didn't notice: I added the CMD05/FL=4 parsing for you. Jul 24 10:32:12 squalyl`afk`eat: Are you doing the handover based on any standard? The voice quality is dictated by the GSM codec. It'll be practically identical with any GSM phone. You can connect in/out voice from the modem to ADCs of quite high enough quality to capture all of the data. Jul 24 10:35:22 Elrond, thanks. Jul 24 10:37:07 Dmitry_Platonov - And I'm planning for some coldstart.py thingy basicly. Well, my current planing is for librarising my own "testlab tools", but it will make writing coldstart.py hopefully very simple. Jul 24 10:37:32 Elrond: If you want me to do the satellite range-rates for your position, then give me your position/date/time/timezone Jul 24 10:37:44 or Dmitry_Platonov: of course Jul 24 10:39:01 SpeedEvil: I'm investigating how it works now. It will be based on 3GPP 44.318 and 43.318 Jul 24 10:39:41 squalyl: are these actually deployed by any carrier? Jul 24 10:40:12 hehe if I have them, it's not by chance! Jul 24 10:40:15 SpeedEvil - Ahh, great. :-) I'm planning to do a full "deoppler-scan" (well, at least for the param, that we all think, is the doppler) for one sat sometime soon. I'll contact you, if I'm ready to do them / have done them. Jul 24 10:40:28 SpeedEvil, thanks. I can get readings from my position directly from receiver. Jul 24 10:40:38 SpeedEvil - How far in the past can you get the data? Jul 24 10:40:49 Elrond: It seems to be quite accurate back to march. Jul 24 10:41:02 Weee. Jul 24 10:41:23 Where did you get the orbits? Jul 24 10:41:31 I intend to check, when I get up off the sofa and wander back over to the desktop to compare with data that I took last year. Jul 24 10:42:08 Basically comparing satellite alt/az with the stuff in the data, it matches within a degree back in march Jul 24 10:42:45 Elrond: I forget - I googled gps "two line elements" Jul 24 10:43:28 SpeedEvil: These specs seems to be deployed by this "open nokia/ericsson platform" I have to ask more information to my internship manager, but for now my work is to write a document describing how I plan to design the whole thing. Jul 24 10:44:19 Okay, anyway, I need to get some food now. Jul 24 10:44:55 * * OM Bug 656 has been created by dando(AT)gmx.de Jul 24 10:44:56 * * openmoko-calculator: division by zero not caught. Jul 24 10:44:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=656 Jul 24 10:45:05 lol Jul 24 10:45:08 squalyl: I was more meaning any carriers - is this the protocol that t-mobile is using for example. Jul 24 10:45:48 I only know that the protocol is ipsec based, so it may not depend on any carrier... I'm a gsm-noob Jul 24 10:46:22 ah OK i understood Jul 24 10:46:22 Oh - right. Jul 24 10:46:34 I dont know what carriers are using Jul 24 10:46:40 I see. GPRS latency _sucks_. Jul 24 10:46:52 :-| Jul 24 10:46:54 If you are trying to do VOIP over GPRS Jul 24 10:47:16 It's more a GSM over WIFI thing Jul 24 10:47:19 :) Jul 24 10:47:23 As in it can be a couple of seconds. Jul 24 10:47:38 seconds of latency ! Jul 24 10:47:43 yes. Jul 24 10:49:03 yes Jul 24 10:49:19 I have a logfile from ping -t output on my laptop if you want ;) Jul 24 10:49:25 both GPRS and 3G figures in there Jul 24 10:51:52 I was just meaning that if the carrier does not support the GSM 'hand over this call now' option, then there isn't much point. Which is a pity. Jul 24 10:52:02 sandos: what's the 3G numbers like? Jul 24 10:53:13 I think GPRS latency sucks because operators do not want VoIP application run atop GPRS Jul 24 10:53:37 No! That can't be true! They can't simply be money-grabbing-bastards! :) Jul 24 10:53:55 :) Jul 24 10:53:56 * Stephmw does the ARPU dance Jul 24 10:56:23 In the UK - the market is skewed by the stupid, stupid, stupid sums of money paid for spectrum. Jul 24 10:56:47 SpeedEvil: let me check Jul 24 10:57:04 SpeedEvil: I though they'd already covered those? Jul 24 10:57:07 sandos: just ballpark - 10, 100, 1000ms? Jul 24 10:57:20 ~300 maybe Jul 24 10:57:25 or possibly 100 Jul 24 10:57:28 Stephmw: Hmm. dunno Jul 24 10:57:48 SpeedEvil: then again, that wouldn't make a difference. They'd keep squeezing. Jul 24 10:57:48 Hmm - so VOIP, just about, though maybe with a noticable delay Jul 24 10:58:13 If they had less debt, they could roll out more services quicker. Jul 24 10:58:15 300ms is the max people will bear, consistency is key... if it jumps around, it'll drive people nuts. Jul 24 10:58:29 You can of course cap it. Jul 24 10:58:42 about 300-350 ms avg om 3G Jul 24 10:58:51 but then I'm also on a 200km/h train when doing these... Jul 24 10:59:25 GPRS is more like 900 avg, but spikes upto above 2000 Jul 24 10:59:33 and lots of losses Jul 24 11:03:23 I wonder if delaying the other caller makes short - 0-1s delays seem better Jul 24 11:03:29 if consistent Jul 24 11:03:44 I suspect it'll make them seem inattentive. Jul 24 11:04:07 err - no. Jul 24 11:04:12 ignore that. Jul 24 11:05:55 Dmitry_Platonov, by design GPRS can't provide low latencies Jul 24 11:10:10 HSDPA have latencies < 150 ms. For small packets (voip typically), latency can be significantly lower Jul 24 11:10:28 anyone know how some do voip over data then? like fring Jul 24 11:10:31 Yup. Can't wait for umts and hdspa. I want my ssh to work. Jul 24 11:10:41 been discussing that in a forum and I dont understand how it can ever work Jul 24 11:11:16 guillaum1, I think it depend on how prioritisation on base station is set up. Jul 24 11:26:24 hello Jul 24 11:26:57 I read that tor will use a new protocoll for the dir service, right? Jul 24 11:29:59 ? Jul 24 11:30:13 I suspect it'd be something like syncML Jul 24 11:30:27 whcih iirc is fairly common Jul 24 11:30:46 oh.. hang on... Jul 24 11:30:51 * ScaredyCat stfu Jul 24 11:35:01 Dmitry_Platonov, gprs delay class 1 requires only latency < 2s for SDUs of 1024 bytes. Moreover gprs/edge networks don't have realtime QoS capabilities. So the jitter can't be controlled Jul 24 11:35:54 realtime = real time services Jul 24 11:39:30 classes of service for real time apps will be introduced in late 2008 for UMTS/HSDPA Jul 24 11:39:55 by phones or by the standards ? Jul 24 11:41:04 xkr47, networks and next phones Jul 24 11:41:37 * xkr47 acks Jul 24 11:43:57 * raster syns Jul 24 11:44:43 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Denniz]] [[Hear_Me_FIC]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[Mokopedia]] [[User_talk:Phlash]] [[User:Tyrael]] [[Solar_power]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Milan]] [[Square_case]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] and other changes Jul 24 11:44:52 reboot seems to crash Neo Jul 24 11:47:42 raster: you'll go to hell for syning. Jul 24 11:48:12 Stephmw: i've already packed the 30+ sunscreen :) Jul 24 11:52:47 rtp: seeing as you doing kernel stuff, you tried to suspend while ssh into device via usb? Jul 24 11:52:58 say, does anyone know if a linux box is required for bringing the phone up to the last level after one receives the shipment? or is a windows box enough? Jul 24 11:55:38 XorA: yeah. As long as you reconfigure the usb0 on the host after resuming, the session should come back Jul 24 11:56:03 rtp: I get hardlockup of Neo :-(, on bv2/3/4 Jul 24 11:56:05 anyone bought the new device? Jul 24 11:56:10 the Neo? Jul 24 11:56:28 I was curious about what the dev hardware is like Jul 24 11:56:28 darmou: I think we all did, its just not shipped yet Jul 24 11:56:37 ahh ok interesting Jul 24 11:56:42 XorA: I didn't try on my Bv4 but it's fine on my Bv3 and I don't have a Bv2 :/ Jul 24 11:57:12 darmou: you can find a lot of rumors here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Jul 24 11:57:12 rtp: hmm, I shall have to recheck my bv3 then Jul 24 11:58:53 the Neo 1973 will be avalible for mainstream in Oktober, right? Jul 24 11:59:10 and it will be the version 2 model Jul 24 11:59:14 only question is which october Jul 24 11:59:20 give or take a plutonian day Jul 24 11:59:21 arg Jul 24 12:00:10 DrStrangelove: my guess: at least six months from now. Jul 24 12:00:22 *sign* Jul 24 12:00:33 it would be nice to have development P2's before year end. Jul 24 12:00:47 usable software to make this a phone >= 6 months Jul 24 12:00:58 what does P2 mean? Jul 24 12:01:02 XorA: btw, if you can, try also with the patchset I sent you. Even if the sound will not work, it should be fine for suspend testing :) Jul 24 12:01:22 P2 = second version with WiFi Jul 24 12:01:25 DrStrangelove: but it might be earlier if everybody starts writing code, testing, debuging and submitting patches ;) Jul 24 12:01:28 and more memory Jul 24 12:01:35 rtp: its the suspend during sound playback I wish to test, bit I can add the missing patch and get sound working :-) Jul 24 12:02:05 XorA: yeah, or use aplay :) Jul 24 12:02:30 my programming skills arent that good :( Jul 24 12:03:19 w00t, my moko has been shipped Jul 24 12:03:23 hehe Jul 24 12:03:24 grazt Jul 24 12:03:35 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Jul 24 12:03:41 trackingnumber? Jul 24 12:03:44 where is it? Jul 24 12:03:50 shipped or paid for? Jul 24 12:04:11 hoax Jul 24 12:04:13 :p Jul 24 12:04:13 ScaredyCat: well, charged and shippin asap Jul 24 12:04:27 so charged :) Jul 24 12:04:36 in our terminology Jul 24 12:04:38 :) Jul 24 12:04:40 no no Jul 24 12:04:41 it is on the way Jul 24 12:04:49 or that is what i like to believe Jul 24 12:04:52 trackingnumber Jul 24 12:04:53 no, no it;s not.. Jul 24 12:05:01 whyshould you be happy Jul 24 12:05:03 :) Jul 24 12:05:29 without a tracking number, they just took your money and went on holiday ;) Jul 24 12:05:36 yep :) Jul 24 12:05:41 XorA: fwiw, I've tried suspending while playing a mp3 and the sound playback didn't resume :( Jul 24 12:05:46 they could send it without a tracking number Jul 24 12:05:55 they could.. Jul 24 12:05:56 no Jul 24 12:05:58 so FBI cannot track it Jul 24 12:06:03 and grass could be grown on the moon Jul 24 12:06:11 neither is likely Jul 24 12:06:12 sc but it does Jul 24 12:06:21 wow, how did i do that? Jul 24 12:06:34 magic/ Jul 24 12:07:10 anyways, if you write ASAP in the email, it means they were running with the package to the post while writing the mail to me Jul 24 12:07:25 as soon as possible Jul 24 12:07:31 well, that's why I asked for clarification.. Jul 24 12:07:36 that means after monsun Jul 24 12:07:42 but they appear to have ignored that question Jul 24 12:07:57 for some reason... Jul 24 12:08:14 neos are not in states yet? :p Jul 24 12:08:21 not made yet Jul 24 12:08:27 ;) Jul 24 12:08:32 even better :) Jul 24 12:09:08 they're just working on the final bits... Jul 24 12:09:13 DrStrangelove: testing and reporting problems, filing bugs does not need programming skills ;) Jul 24 12:09:15 to allow them to lock the devices Jul 24 12:09:22 or the whole thing is just evil microsoft hoax to demoralize FOSS people Jul 24 12:09:34 lol Jul 24 12:09:51 Sufflope, Jul 24 12:09:55 Sup3rkiddo, Jul 24 12:10:07 empty_mind, Jul 24 12:10:53 please no sex in public Jul 24 12:10:59 humm, i should have asked them to deliver it to my US friend who could have mailed it to me as non-working phone and i could have saved the customs/toll Jul 24 12:11:02 and VAT Jul 24 12:11:15 say, about the video here Jul 24 12:11:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo&mode=related&search= Jul 24 12:11:33 w00t they are sending devices as working phones ? Jul 24 12:11:34 they say this will be fixed in the netx hardware?!? Jul 24 12:11:43 and not as engineering prototypes ? Jul 24 12:12:16 only the ones that work Jul 24 12:12:18 ;) Jul 24 12:12:41 if they were labeled as bread instead of phones i would only need to pay 7% of VAT instead of 22% Jul 24 12:12:44 * hhf423 will clearly enjoy watching BSG on flights on the Neo Jul 24 12:12:50 * ScaredyCat waits impatiently for a tracking number.... Jul 24 12:13:19 well, books would be better then raynet Jul 24 12:13:25 or children's clothes Jul 24 12:13:56 hhf423: how could you enjoy that.. Jul 24 12:14:03 bsg is donkey poo Jul 24 12:14:22 ScaredyCat: i think those have higher VAT than food products Jul 24 12:14:33 Is there a posibilty of building something similar to the Safari browser on the iphone with the zoom in functionality? Jul 24 12:14:36 nope Jul 24 12:14:36 * SpeedEvil prefers this Starbuck to the last one. Jul 24 12:14:40 though importing food can have other problems Jul 24 12:14:45 both are zero rated raynet Jul 24 12:14:50 darmou: in principle - sure. Jul 24 12:14:54 ScaredyCat: really? Jul 24 12:14:59 ya Jul 24 12:15:04 darmou: the browser has yet to be implemented Jul 24 12:15:14 ScaredyCat: well, see, you're entitled to an opinion, too and I can not even shoot you for it Jul 24 12:15:37 * hhf423 thinks BSG is great Jul 24 12:15:44 hhf423: yes... and you are entitled to yours... Jul 24 12:15:49 ...even if it's wrong Jul 24 12:15:51 ;) Jul 24 12:15:53 ScaredyCat: checked, not true Jul 24 12:16:03 tis so Jul 24 12:16:07 * SpeedEvil gives the cylons ScaredyCats address. Jul 24 12:16:08 doesn't "you're entitled to your opinion" constitute "sod off" nowadays? Jul 24 12:16:13 ScaredyCat: children clothees are 22% Jul 24 12:16:19 as are books Jul 24 12:16:26 ben_goodger: exactly Jul 24 12:16:33 no way! Jul 24 12:16:42 no dillo or flower or minimo? Jul 24 12:16:54 darmou: it's not been implemented Jul 24 12:17:02 ben_goodger: its, like, "I don't even hear what you are saying" Jul 24 12:17:21 raynet, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/07/nvat107.xml# Jul 24 12:17:25 raynet, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/07/nvat107.xml Jul 24 12:17:28 darmou: i think the zoom could work by douple tapping Jul 24 12:17:43 dillo rocks on my Zaurus, but all the others are too slow, don't know if neo will be faster device Jul 24 12:17:43 FuzzyCat: you don't need to remove the # Jul 24 12:17:55 darmou: what's the CPU and RAM? Jul 24 12:17:57 true - habbit Jul 24 12:18:44 FuzzyCat: well, i checked finnish VAT rules and no such thing there Jul 24 12:19:01 Intel XScale PXA270 processor clocked at 416MHz and has 64 megs of RAM (used like RAM in your PC) and 128 megs of flash ROM Jul 24 12:19:37 darmou: dillo suxx Jul 24 12:19:39 I have 3200 http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Sharp-Zaurus-C3200.htm Jul 24 12:19:46 From _very_ fuzzy memory - I _think_ the PXA270s are slowe clock for clock than the ARM in the neo Jul 24 12:20:03 hrw: what do you use? Jul 24 12:20:06 raynet: so but them in the uk :) Jul 24 12:20:11 darmou: on Z? nothing Jul 24 12:20:11 buy Jul 24 12:20:13 So the CPUs are probably similar in the existing phones. In Jul 24 12:20:32 ScaredyCat: and wait for longer, no thanks Jul 24 12:20:42 darmou: my Z is arm testing device not webbrowse tool Jul 24 12:20:46 the coming phones - Oct - it is faster Jul 24 12:20:52 wiat longer than what... ? an eternity? Jul 24 12:21:00 ScaredyCat: and in any case, as a company i dont have to pay the VAT Jul 24 12:21:20 ahh ok, I use it to browse web in bed and listen to mp3 steaminng radio. Jul 24 12:22:27 Have not had time latley to do any tinkering, would like to get angstom on it. I'm glad openmoko uses openembedded as base. Going to make it easier to transition from Z to phone. Jul 24 12:24:35 rtp: ahah, it will suspend while playuing sound, but sound does not restart :-( Jul 24 12:25:13 Quick straw poll. How many would pay $50 - if it was an option at purchase-time of the phone - for a bundled copy of TomTom (the GPS navigation system) Jul 24 12:25:24 has anyone seen, played with the iphone could be the source of some good ideas? Jul 24 12:25:37 ....i thought tomtom was hardware Jul 24 12:25:43 darmou: I don't know if I want to blend my Neo though. Jul 24 12:25:51 cjb_ie: it's both Jul 24 12:26:01 http://www.tomtom.com/products/section.php?ID=145&Section=214&Category=2&Lid=4 Jul 24 12:26:15 $99 for complete US maps and systems Jul 24 12:26:17 I know there is windows mobile tom tom Jul 24 12:26:29 SpeedEvil, I would. Jul 24 12:26:45 Me too. Jul 24 12:26:59 I assume that FIC could get some price reductions if they bought 1000. Jul 24 12:27:14 (neglecting the fact that there is not a Neo version) Jul 24 12:28:29 Is there a WineCE? Jul 24 12:29:54 tomtom Go runs linux... on arm Jul 24 12:30:45 I know. I was just wondering if the mobile phone version might not be a better solution. Jul 24 12:31:32 isnt there also a symbian tomtom Jul 24 12:31:42 there is Jul 24 12:31:42 yes Jul 24 12:31:58 symbian emulation layer on openmoko would be handy Jul 24 12:32:11 WineCE would be nice too. Jul 24 12:32:12 you must be kindding Jul 24 12:32:13 * ScaredyCat has the tt sdk too :) Jul 24 12:32:29 And Palm emulator. Jul 24 12:32:38 wince emulator would be easy Jul 24 12:32:44 and c64 emu is a must Jul 24 12:33:32 they've released sources for wince emu Jul 24 12:33:38 Just remember to upgrade the emulator to the latest C64 BIOS that supports touchscreen. Jul 24 12:33:45 but i think, that for symbian it's impossible Jul 24 12:33:58 Why? Jul 24 12:34:04 it's a worst system/bussiness I've ever met Jul 24 12:34:15 Just inavalabilty of docs? Jul 24 12:34:38 well you can reverse their emu Jul 24 12:35:12 i was very confused for a moment, read C64 as commodore 64 :-) Jul 24 12:35:35 man you've to sign your app to just read a BTS number from phone Jul 24 12:35:52 yes Jul 24 12:35:57 or similar stuff Jul 24 12:36:07 XorA: is it supposed to be working or suspend support is missing in ASoC ? :) Jul 24 12:36:19 rtp: Ive never been able to test it before Jul 24 12:36:34 rtp: I assume I need to add stuff to store and recall IIS state Jul 24 12:36:38 skype was suded by harald in germany Jul 24 12:36:49 Mmmm. Soapy! Jul 24 12:36:52 german only -> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/93189 Jul 24 12:37:02 for what? Jul 24 12:37:10 Being evil! Jul 24 12:37:10 cjb_ie: you read it right, i meant commodore 64 Jul 24 12:37:30 phone running skype without source gpl disclaimer Jul 24 12:37:35 OMAP is ARM isn't it? Jul 24 12:37:47 XorA: ok. At least it's not really a bug :) Jul 24 12:37:53 skype is gpl? Jul 24 12:38:16 humm, skype works on Nokia 800 so it might be possible to hack it to run on neo Jul 24 12:38:17 skype !gpl Jul 24 12:38:29 ah Jul 24 12:38:36 but they probably use some libs etc that are LGPL Jul 24 12:38:37 phone runs linux and skype Jul 24 12:38:41 sorry Jul 24 12:38:50 oh, ok Jul 24 12:39:00 skype is sort of scary Jul 24 12:39:21 if there was some gpl to it, I would be interested in looking at the code Jul 24 12:39:24 skype is only scary because it should have failed Jul 24 12:39:28 why juco ? why skype is scary ? Jul 24 12:39:39 it behaves like a botnet Jul 24 12:39:39 it's nasty and should die Jul 24 12:39:43 phone comes from http://www.smc.com/ Jul 24 12:39:48 empty_m: because it's an encrypted app designed to tunnel through firewalls. Jul 24 12:40:01 any network admins here? Jul 24 12:40:01 juco: like botnet? how? Jul 24 12:40:08 ScaredyCat, winblows should have failed long ago ! :-p Jul 24 12:40:09 emp: Without source - so you have no idea of what data it's sending over the wire. Jul 24 12:40:12 and skype resells it Jul 24 12:40:26 empty_mind_: I thought it had :) Jul 24 12:40:31 well, I'm not much of a network admin Jul 24 12:40:58 SpeedEvil: which is why it just works, though corporate firewall admins dont like that Jul 24 12:41:09 ScaredyCat, well if had, why would linux guys have to advocate linux ? Jul 24 12:41:35 well, it's failed for me... I don;t use it, at all Jul 24 12:41:36 juco whats the problem? Jul 24 12:41:49 skype is evil, it's proprietary software Jul 24 12:42:00 use regular open-source SIP instead Jul 24 12:42:08 hmm ScaredyCat that means you use skype Jul 24 12:42:11 nothing is exactly wrong with skype Jul 24 12:42:18 empty_mind_: huh? Jul 24 12:42:27 http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secdev.org%2Fconf%2Fskype_BHEU06.handout.pdf&ei=h_OlRu2HMJakxAHLxIzdDQ&usg=AFQjCNFmpVp7BgrwjgH5TDq7rZwp5S78Cw&sig2=0VtYoJO__kzt8ko7W-DNow rayne: Jul 24 12:42:27 but if you are a network admin, it looks like a botnet infestation Jul 24 12:42:32 loufoque: if someone made it as easy to work as with skype, then perhaps Jul 24 12:42:48 it uses NAT tunneling, and every skype install makes multiple network connections over random high ports Jul 24 12:42:57 www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.handout.pdf rather Jul 24 12:43:12 interesting bit on the architecture of skype with reverse engineering Jul 24 12:43:14 and creates a not insignificant amount of encrypted traffic Jul 24 12:43:21 skype goes through firewalls and can't be easily prevented Jul 24 12:43:24 even when its not making calls Jul 24 12:43:35 skype is crap. I would rather have a well configured server than use some freakish ways to go through the NAT Jul 24 12:43:39 The above gives some ways to firewall it Jul 24 12:43:40 i.e. bandwidth controlling is an issue Jul 24 12:44:00 kazaa, skype, joost Jul 24 12:44:04 guaqua: it is quite easy to detect and then you can just block any access from the IP that is using Skype Jul 24 12:44:05 irritating that he just skipped ScaredyCat's question about shipping on the ML...that was excactly what i was interested in als Jul 24 12:44:07 the guys know how to do p2p Jul 24 12:44:08 also* Jul 24 12:44:23 raynet: there is a general way to firewall it. Jul 24 12:44:38 SpeedEvil: block all traffic from skype infected machine works quite well Jul 24 12:45:25 well, the big advantage that skype has over plain old SIP is that it can offer higher quality Jul 24 12:45:33 especially for people with crappy connections Jul 24 12:45:40 like, say spotty EDGE service Jul 24 12:45:46 raynet: doesn't work in big corporate environments Jul 24 12:45:50 people have to get things done Jul 24 12:45:57 because it co-opts the other skype members to find the best possible route Jul 24 12:46:07 its actually quite nice Jul 24 12:46:16 guaqua: well, in big corp environments i've been to, you cannot install skype to your machine, so that fixes that Jul 24 12:46:19 and works much the way the Internet was originally envisioned Jul 24 12:46:39 but because its encrypted, secret and closed source, it is a little scary Jul 24 12:46:41 at least to me Jul 24 12:47:55 juco: but if you run it as a non-privileged user that doesnt have access to any important resource on your machine, it is quite safe Jul 24 12:48:09 or inside VMWare image :) Jul 24 12:48:17 yeah, its pretty safe Jul 24 12:48:24 xen? Jul 24 12:48:26 as safe as running any other binary only software Jul 24 12:48:38 but its the network activity that I find most scary Jul 24 12:48:50 have you ever been inside a network with a botnet infestation? Jul 24 12:48:54 as safe as running any other software that you didnt read the source before running it Jul 24 12:49:03 juco: yes Jul 24 12:49:05 having to sort out skype traffic from infected traffic would be really tough Jul 24 12:50:06 The above PDF gives a one-line firewall rule to kill skype Jul 24 12:50:16 raynet, you don't have to read the source yourself to have higher confidence in a piece of open source software than in binary only software Jul 24 12:50:44 juco: but you should, i might have added backdoor to the copy you just installed Jul 24 12:50:46 but, as I said, if I ever saw network traffic like what skype produces you can be sure I would check out the source Jul 24 12:50:50 And it's not only binary malice, it's binary producers incompetance. Hence why ActiveX was so evil. Jul 24 12:51:05 plus there is the source Jul 24 12:51:36 juco: I love the fact that skype can open 1000s of connections for no apprent reason Jul 24 12:51:39 heh half of wiki changes are p1 owners.. Jul 24 12:51:40 skype is brought to you by the same people who brought your the malware spreading kazaa Jul 24 12:51:47 *to the p1 owners page* Jul 24 12:51:51 SpeedEvil: that is true. the biggest problem with binary only is that you cannot fix it and have to rely on the vendor to provide a fix Jul 24 12:52:01 That true. Jul 24 12:53:53 but can't wait to get my hands on my neo, will immediately port some bittorrent client for it so i can test how unlimited my unlimited data plan is Jul 24 12:54:22 are you in the US? Jul 24 12:54:26 nope Jul 24 12:54:57 dont all plans (even fixed-line ones) include a contract saying somewhere thay they reserve the right to terminate any "excessive" usage or something like that? Jul 24 12:55:05 not here Jul 24 12:55:06 or anything disturbing traffic for others Jul 24 12:55:07 hmm ok Jul 24 12:55:10 fair use Jul 24 12:55:29 actually, my data plan isn't unlimited, it is flat-fee Jul 24 12:55:34 look at vodafon, t-mobile etc too .. Jul 24 12:55:48 raynet the k800i had/has integer overflow for counting bytes Jul 24 12:55:50 vodafone's unlimited plan has 1 gb usage limit Jul 24 12:56:00 nice Jul 24 12:56:02 raynet: which operator? Jul 24 12:56:08 taneli: saunalahti Jul 24 12:58:12 too bad i can only get EDGE speeds where i live Jul 24 12:58:53 ScaredyCat: 1 gb or 1 gB Jul 24 12:59:09 humm, p2p use is forbidden Jul 24 12:59:16 hehe Jul 24 12:59:19 voip too Jul 24 12:59:22 I guess Jul 24 12:59:34 not voip, just file swapping via p2p Jul 24 12:59:45 ???? Jul 24 12:59:47 lol Jul 24 12:59:57 in germany voip is forbidden Jul 24 13:00:17 sad Jul 24 13:00:27 woglinde: uh? Jul 24 13:00:42 florian the most providers forbid it Jul 24 13:00:46 is skype allowed ?-) Jul 24 13:00:58 skypeout / skypein.. Jul 24 13:01:01 woglinde: they try ;) Jul 24 13:01:01 cell phone providers Jul 24 13:01:22 forbid controll doing nice chain Jul 24 13:01:23 xkr47: i think it is a border case here, file transferring via p2p was forbidden by contract but perhaps not calls Jul 24 13:01:44 though i'd like to see them try to enforce those rules Jul 24 13:02:01 as they are not allowed to inspect my packets that easily Jul 24 13:05:09 * jeddy3 wishes someone would post another question about what "promptly" means on the ML :) Jul 24 13:05:28 ;) Jul 24 13:07:52 there are people having their payment confirmed 6 days ago, and still no "ASAP" shipping :P Jul 24 13:08:41 I just wish my CC could get billed so I can start hanging out of the window waiting for dhl :) Jul 24 13:09:12 Fatal, you would wait a long time then...as it ships with UPS ;) Jul 24 13:09:19 :) Jul 24 13:10:16 eventhough CC billing apparently does have nothing to do with shipping soon :( Jul 24 13:11:33 hm, I wish we could get some info on the delay, I mean there is a delay right? hm... or did they plan all along that it would take this long .. Jul 24 13:12:59 maybe they are to busy shipping things to ups that they prioritize that instead of filling in and submitting the trackingnumber .. Jul 24 13:13:57 "knock knock" "what, I haven't even got a tracking number yet" "ok, sorry, I'll take this back then" Jul 24 13:15:11 yo! Jul 24 13:15:36 xkr47: *lol* Jul 24 13:16:29 * sannes suspects them to be to busy charging credit cards :P Jul 24 13:16:42 * Kero concurs with sannes Jul 24 13:17:03 blue edge seen somewhere? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo1973 Jul 24 13:17:13 they might have to ship all units at once, to get those lower UPS prices. or something. Jul 24 13:17:15 or maybe they are enjoying sending every neo out in the big world like parents sending their kids out :) Jul 24 13:17:26 "take care little one" Jul 24 13:17:31 heh Jul 24 13:17:53 surely is a big moment Jul 24 13:17:54 but now that I've been charged, I'm confident all communication went well, and I'll actually receive the unit. Jul 24 13:18:10 having patience is easy. being uncertain is not good... Jul 24 13:18:10 it's hardly a baby....well, I will agree it could be a premie Jul 24 13:18:14 Hum, everything runs as root? :-) Jul 24 13:18:19 Kero, agreed Jul 24 13:18:40 snif my gsm-wifi handover project is "dead in the egg" like we say in france :( Jul 24 13:18:57 AT interface is not sufficient to implement mobility functions Jul 24 13:18:59 anyone know if any rt 3xxx has been charged Jul 24 13:19:23 squalyl, UMA-like ? ;-) Jul 24 13:19:49 squalyl: i highly suspect you will need mreo than just that - you will need support from the telco/provider too Jul 24 13:20:24 guillaum1: totally UMA Jul 24 13:20:52 raster: the problem is not in the provider, but in a "Location update" message that can't be sent through AT the interface Jul 24 13:21:00 (and calculations of auth keys) Jul 24 13:21:09 hmm Jul 24 13:21:21 this is probably a good thing to put in as a request Jul 24 13:21:25 this concerns the Mobility Management core of the GSM stack Jul 24 13:21:32 maybe current gen moko phones can't do it Jul 24 13:21:34 we cant't access that Jul 24 13:21:37 but something to be added to future ones Jul 24 13:21:49 make sure the gsm chipset can export such things via at commands Jul 24 13:22:06 I think it depends entirely on Texas Instruments Jul 24 13:22:15 the gsm subsystem is basically like a separate OS and cpu all on its own Jul 24 13:22:22 that runs its own firmware Jul 24 13:22:22 yeah. Jul 24 13:22:25 built-in Jul 24 13:22:34 i know that. Jul 24 13:22:38 and you control it via at commands Jul 24 13:22:54 so what needs doing is gettign a new gsm chipset that can export such features Jul 24 13:22:59 and GSM specs do not give any command to run a "Location Update" Jul 24 13:23:00 or pressuing suppliers to open them Jul 24 13:23:16 so it'd need to be added on as an extension Jul 24 13:23:57 It may be implemented in undocumented proprietay commands but I dont know where to find some doc. Recent discussions on mailing list suggests it may not be available at all. Jul 24 13:24:32 it could be feasible as a gsm chip firmware upgrade _if_ the chip provider is willing... oh yeah, and possible proprietary commands Jul 24 13:25:29 put it on the wiki in the wishlist Jul 24 13:25:33 so its documented Jul 24 13:26:54 what's firefox on openmoko status? Jul 24 13:27:14 I've added a line in the UMA section of the wishlist Jul 24 13:27:22 Dmitry_Platonov, miles away Jul 24 13:27:27 you dont want firefox on openmoko Jul 24 13:27:37 why dont we? Jul 24 13:27:42 but firefox crosscompiles for arm yes Jul 24 13:27:44 webkit... Jul 24 13:27:54 What browser are you going to run? Jul 24 13:28:04 squalyl, could the cell-id from the operator's location server be sufficient ? Jul 24 13:28:07 Ported version of Minimo? ;-) Jul 24 13:28:23 minimo isnt quiet smaller than firefox Jul 24 13:28:40 it's slow Jul 24 13:28:49 minimo will probably fit better Jul 24 13:28:55 webkit is the only way I think Jul 24 13:29:01 or elinks... Jul 24 13:29:02 :) Jul 24 13:29:02 hehe Jul 24 13:29:08 * woglinde looks at zecke Jul 24 13:29:11 mosaic Jul 24 13:29:20 * empty_mind looks at zell1983 Jul 24 13:29:27 ? Jul 24 13:29:43 guillaum1: Even if we have this, we need to send a request to the network that marks the device using a GANC to route calls. Jul 24 13:29:45 zell1983, nothing liked your logo Jul 24 13:29:54 s/logo/name Jul 24 13:30:05 I think a minimo port is already underway or done? :-) Jul 24 13:30:06 ah ok :P Jul 24 13:30:11 guillaum1: without that, incoming calls to the mobile station would be routed through the radio and not through IP Jul 24 13:30:30 squalyl, ok Jul 24 13:30:42 this is sad :( Jul 24 13:31:36 hi Jul 24 13:31:55 why the OpenMoko phone is very expensive ?? Jul 24 13:31:55 mnemonicE2: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 24 13:32:18 mnemonicE2 it isnt Jul 24 13:32:20 mnemonicE2: it's not Jul 24 13:32:23 it's not that expensive when you weight the options Jul 24 13:32:29 weigh* Jul 24 13:32:30 mnemonicE2, it's not Jul 24 13:32:52 locked mobile phones are susidised, neo is unlocked Jul 24 13:32:59 but the iPhone has many other options Jul 24 13:33:01 most any phone with built in GPS now is over 400$ Jul 24 13:33:05 it's cheaper than anything else with similar hardware, if you buy without a network contract Jul 24 13:33:10 the iphone is locked Jul 24 13:33:11 mnemonicE2, lol the iphone :D Jul 24 13:33:17 in so many ways Jul 24 13:33:25 mnemonicE2: options? you have to hack the firmware just to change the ringtone Jul 24 13:33:58 maybe Jul 24 13:34:12 cjb_ie: are you saying that the neo won't even have 23 steps to change the ringtone!? ... :P Jul 24 13:34:24 ar eyou here for the comedy mnemonicE2 ? Jul 24 13:34:32 no Jul 24 13:34:36 sannes: you can make it as many steps as you like - that's the beauty of open source :-) Jul 24 13:34:37 *g* Jul 24 13:34:52 but I still think 300$ is money Jul 24 13:34:57 yes Jul 24 13:34:59 of course it's money Jul 24 13:35:00 then you need to read about the iphone and the resrictions it forces on its users Jul 24 13:35:04 but it's not expensive Jul 24 13:35:16 then you need to look at the neo, and the freedom it gives its users Jul 24 13:35:17 mnemonicE2: the openmoko is very very very cheap Jul 24 13:35:18 for an unsubsidised phone, it's very cheap for the feature set. Jul 24 13:35:22 it would be expensive for a dumb phone Jul 24 13:35:23 but wait for october if you are not sure Jul 24 13:35:33 but the Neo isn't Jul 24 13:35:44 we can't get it without GPS ? Jul 24 13:35:48 mjr: well, it won't be when the software is done :-) Jul 24 13:35:49 besides, USD is worth about 0.001 of anything else at the moment Jul 24 13:35:50 no with wifi Jul 24 13:36:16 the iPhone has some cool featurus though, would be nice to get some of them with OpenMoko Jul 24 13:36:16 cjb_ie, well, let's just say that currently it's smart, and a phone, but not a smartphone ;) Jul 24 13:36:17 GPRS+Internet+GoogleEarth don't do the same ? Jul 24 13:36:17 mnemonicE2: making diffeent versions would push the overall cost up Jul 24 13:36:17 mnemonicE2: iPhone is something like $2000 when you add contract to its price Jul 24 13:36:29 darmou_, like which? Jul 24 13:36:31 mnemonicE2: no they dont Jul 24 13:36:36 gps tells the phone WHERE it is Jul 24 13:36:41 mnemonicE2: they don't give you your current location Jul 24 13:36:45 google + gprs + internet do not Jul 24 13:36:53 you have to tell them WHERE you are Jul 24 13:36:54 he said gpRs raster Jul 24 13:36:58 gprs at best can tell you your cell Jul 24 13:37:03 like the web browser, the scrolling through contacts, being able to use google maps and youtube easily Jul 24 13:37:04 etc Jul 24 13:37:07 FuzzyCat: i know Jul 24 13:37:19 well with some help fromt he telco u can triangulate Jul 24 13:37:23 the sms is really cool too more like IM Jul 24 13:37:24 darmou_, the scrolling through contacts , I think is stupid... Jul 24 13:37:26 aloril: you've gotta subtract what a comparable contract would be for the neo. Jul 24 13:37:27 but ists not very accurate Jul 24 13:37:38 raster why the telco? Jul 24 13:37:38 (last i saw it in action) Jul 24 13:37:49 raster look where the atennas are Jul 24 13:37:55 and mark the cellnumber Jul 24 13:38:02 woglinde: you need to know signal strength to at least 3 towers then you need to knwo the locatiosn of those 3 towers Jul 24 13:38:09 SpeedEvil: yes, but reportedly you need that contract with iPhone (I might remember this wrong) Jul 24 13:38:14 without locatiosn of the towers... Jul 24 13:38:16 I mean, I want to call a contact rapidly , I don't want waste my time playing with a stupid scroll for search for my contact Jul 24 13:38:21 talking about webkit I'm sure there is a gtk webkit browser Jul 24 13:38:24 and I want to know : OpenMoko can run normal GTK tools ? Jul 24 13:38:26 in cities you have enough towers Jul 24 13:38:42 but you don't have their LOCATION Jul 24 13:38:43 it Jul 24 13:38:44 ie Jul 24 13:38:47 lat/log Jul 24 13:38:53 if u had that for all cell towers Jul 24 13:38:55 u could do it Jul 24 13:38:56 darmou_: there is Jul 24 13:39:02 if you had 3 towers in range Jul 24 13:39:02 http://gtk-webcore.sourceforge.net/ ? Jul 24 13:39:05 make service like openstreetmap Jul 24 13:39:14 aloril: true - but to be honest unless you're comparing it against not having a phone, stating the $2000 cost, when a service with a dataplan is going to be a moderate percentage of that. Jul 24 13:39:16 mnemonicE2: OpenMoko uses GTK+, yes Jul 24 13:39:22 a gps chip/unit gives you actual lat/long Jul 24 13:39:25 so no need form telcos Jul 24 13:39:38 use and can run apps? Jul 24 13:39:39 mnemonicE2, it runs an X server, so basically any X software should run, modulo memory and screen size. GTK is used for the "native" tools Jul 24 13:39:44 woglinde: the modem does _not_ give us timing info. And towers can cover 15km radius Jul 24 13:39:47 there is no special configs? Jul 24 13:39:59 ok Jul 24 13:40:09 speedevil I know I broke the approach down for cities Jul 24 13:40:11 mnemonicE2: it's more a desktop than a conventional 'embedded' app Jul 24 13:40:11 XorA: is that in openembedded the flower browser? Jul 24 13:40:49 Even in cities, phone towers can cover quite largish areas. Jul 24 13:40:57 darmou_: GdkLauncher, got by building webkit Jul 24 13:41:01 But I think I should wait before I get new one, wait for apps to grow in number and price to fall... Jul 24 13:41:10 mnemonicE2: iphones fine print: http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2007/07/whats-hidden-in-iphones-fine-print.html Jul 24 13:41:13 XorA: thanks Jul 24 13:41:32 mnemonicE2: A normal user buying at this time would have to be insane. Jul 24 13:41:48 A nokia 1100 is a better phone at 1/10th the price. Jul 24 13:42:16 * XorA has a free nokia 1100, slightly run over Jul 24 13:42:17 ahh the price of freedom... Jul 24 13:42:39 3) Double Billing. You and the Caller Both Get Charged for the Same Call. Jul 24 13:42:42 ^^ wtf?! Jul 24 13:43:42 * SpeedEvil cues scene from Deliverance. Jul 24 13:43:46 bug_ : What's this site !!!! Jul 24 13:44:09 they haven't said this before ! Jul 24 13:44:56 mnemonicE2 : dunno somebody put the link in here a few days ago Jul 24 13:46:55 iPhone has all this limitation ? Jul 24 13:46:59 * koen plays some banjo Jul 24 13:47:22 So people that own it should begin searching for cracks... Jul 24 13:48:31 irc is getting scary: "15:50 -!- dneary is now known as dneary_hospital" Jul 24 13:49:33 Kensan: It's more a good news than bad news... Jul 24 13:49:44 Kensan: You will find out later :) Jul 24 13:49:55 mnemonicE2: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/03/1622212&from=rss Jul 24 13:50:36 not quiet new but.. Jul 24 13:53:26 I'm getting a queasy feeling about whether AT&T will shut down the Neo... Jul 24 13:53:49 if openmoko.com doesn't shut it down first Jul 24 13:54:13 dneary, are you breeding!! Jul 24 13:54:20 that was my thought Jul 24 13:54:41 either that or having an ingrowing toenail removed Jul 24 13:59:32 I just checked my email and ... !!1! Jul 24 13:59:43 there is nothing there! Jul 24 13:59:58 awww Jul 24 14:00:18 * jeddy3 kicks hhf423 in the nuts. Jul 24 14:02:33 which reminds me of sweden-jokes a finnish customer recently told me Jul 24 14:03:09 well, actually, he said that there are no sweden-jokes told in finnland ... Jul 24 14:03:18 ... as they are all real stories! Jul 24 14:03:27 :) Jul 24 14:04:12 which, I think is a fair comment to make and one any german from the north would agree on when it comes to germans from the south Jul 24 14:04:19 and probably vice versa Jul 24 14:05:50 say, does anyone know if a linux box is required for bringing the phone up to the last level after one receives the shipment? or is a windows box enough? Jul 24 14:06:30 * hhf423 wonders if he should repair his played-to-death linux partition Jul 24 14:06:49 i'd say maybe possible with a windows box, but a LOT easier with a linux box Jul 24 14:07:17 hi Jul 24 14:08:01 hello CoreDump|home Jul 24 14:08:03 jeddy3: why, whats to do to get the neo up to speed once its arrived? Jul 24 14:08:57 can I not just flash it with the latest stuff via serial or something? Jul 24 14:08:59 hhf423, compiling, flashing, etc, i guess... Jul 24 14:09:26 that is not in the wiki yet, or did I just not find it? Jul 24 14:09:27 hhf423: I believe there is no windows ports of the flashing utility yet Jul 24 14:09:32 hhf423, sure, should be possible Jul 24 14:09:49 CoreDump|home: ah, ok Jul 24 14:09:52 or maybe not :) Jul 24 14:10:20 hhf423: you can use any terminal program + rootfs/kernel on SD card from windows Jul 24 14:10:22 hhf423: Bootloader is preinstalled. For all other stuff you can use dfu-util. It's on the wiki Jul 24 14:10:32 It is possible that u-boot handles updates sent via serial console. I'm not sure about that tho Jul 24 14:10:38 CoreDump|home: it does Jul 24 14:11:04 stefan_schmidt: and dfu is only for linux at the moment or also windows? Jul 24 14:11:06 XorA: nice ;) Jul 24 14:11:19 CoreDump|home: it takes like 10 mins to download the kernel though Jul 24 14:11:20 Serial is only used for a bootloader shell in OpenMoko. Flashing is DFU Jul 24 14:11:24 dfu is available for windows and osx Jul 24 14:11:29 hi stefan_schmidt Jul 24 14:11:34 since it's the tool used to flash bluetooth dongles Jul 24 14:11:48 ah, cool Jul 24 14:11:50 heyup.. I'm trying to get the mokomakefile built for the first time, 2 days now the bitbake server has been timing out. Any helps? Jul 24 14:11:55 koen: Tried a tool from a other vendor with it? Jul 24 14:12:07 koen: As I only have linux I never tested this. Jul 24 14:12:27 XorA: yeah, 10 min serial vs. 3s DFU :) Jul 24 14:12:28 stefan_schmidt: u-boot core supports serial downloads, and I have done it before with success Jul 24 14:12:46 XorA: Of course it still works, just make no sense. :) Jul 24 14:13:02 stefan_schmidt: this was in the days before the mmc worked, and before the usbtty stuff was added, and long before dfu Jul 24 14:13:09 XorA: People with debug board can also use JTAG if they like. ;) Jul 24 14:13:15 XorA: so we can push updates via the gsm modem ;) Jul 24 14:13:20 XorA: Ah, ok Jul 24 14:13:32 hi lrg Jul 24 14:13:40 ~fish lrg Jul 24 14:13:41 * apt slaps lrg around with a large trout Jul 24 14:13:44 hi stefan_schmidt Jul 24 14:13:52 serial uploading and flashing via terminal is probably a no-go for most windows mouse-pushers out there so a windows GUI app would probably help the cause Jul 24 14:13:53 It must be love between lrg and XorA Jul 24 14:14:24 * XorA really should play Pinion as Neo boots Jul 24 14:14:35 CoreDump|home: There is no windows GUI app in plan for at least the next month. Developer uses Linux. ;) Jul 24 14:14:46 stefan_schmidt: of course Jul 24 14:15:25 lrg: Where should I send the zune2 for X-Mas? ;) Jul 24 14:15:32 hey kic Jul 24 14:15:34 welcome mickeyl Jul 24 14:15:34 hey mickeyl Jul 24 14:15:37 stefan_schmidt: dump? Jul 24 14:15:42 lol Jul 24 14:15:44 GTK isn't a very big lib for OpenMoko ? Jul 24 14:15:50 Qwell: ? Jul 24 14:15:59 why would anybody want a zune? :) Jul 24 14:16:05 =) Jul 24 14:16:08 why they didn't use smaller libs ? Jul 24 14:16:10 Qwell: That was the joke. :) Jul 24 14:16:27 hm, so new orders seem to have stopped at 24xx Jul 24 14:16:31 Qwell, it is from the best os-producer ;) *runamwai* Jul 24 14:16:37 mnemonicE2: What would you suggest for a rich UI? Jul 24 14:16:42 runawai Jul 24 14:16:46 stefan_schmidt: gnucash? Jul 24 14:16:49 okay, I'm done Jul 24 14:16:54 lol Jul 24 14:17:05 in mokomakefile, what is the difference between run-qemu and run-qemu-snapshot targets ? Jul 24 14:17:07 mnemonicE2: smaller means? Jul 24 14:17:16 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 24 14:17:30 ~lart mokobot Jul 24 14:17:31 * apt beats mokobot over the head with a microkernel Jul 24 14:17:31 * mokobot takes out a cattle prod and gives stefan_schmidt a good jolt Jul 24 14:17:31 Hidee ho! Jul 24 14:17:34 in size Jul 24 14:17:50 CoreDump|home: I think a good documentation how to do it with Windows is good enough for Windows users Jul 24 14:18:06 whoever maintains mokobot should probably change the trigger from "~" to something else... Jul 24 14:18:22 ~lart Jul 24 14:18:31 mnemonicE2: If you don't like to have ncurses you just need some big libs doing the work for you Jul 24 14:18:37 CoreDump|home: a fried who is a total-non-techi just managed to install a VPN in windows just with a good documentation. I was surprised. Jul 24 14:18:48 mnemonicE2: I mean - which smaller libs? Jul 24 14:18:53 mnemonicE2: xlib driectly? Jul 24 14:18:55 hhf423: If there is no GUI most mouse-pushers won't even try Jul 24 14:19:01 ~lart * Jul 24 14:19:01 * apt whacks * with the cluebat Jul 24 14:19:01 * mokobot smacks * up side the head with a clue-by-4 Jul 24 14:19:13 ~lart dick Jul 24 14:19:13 * apt smacks dick up side the head with a clue-by-4 Jul 24 14:19:13 * mokobot eats dick's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti Jul 24 14:19:24 ... Jul 24 14:19:27 odd Jul 24 14:19:29 !lart mokobot Jul 24 14:19:31 * cdbot2 does a little 'renice 20 -u mokobot Jul 24 14:19:42 CoreDump|home: you are on angstrom-devel? Jul 24 14:19:46 CoreDump|home: well, probably "real" mouse pushers not, but the in-between-guys Jul 24 14:19:47 help Jul 24 14:19:47 hrw: yeah Jul 24 14:19:47 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Jul 24 14:20:13 hhf423: we shall see once P2 hits the stores =) Jul 24 14:20:16 mnemonicE2: But we are always open for suggestions. Jul 24 14:20:35 hrw: I don't read it daily tho Jul 24 14:21:07 hi florian Jul 24 14:21:15 oops Jul 24 14:21:17 hi stefan_schmidt Jul 24 14:21:18 CoreDump|home: then it will probably be a non-issue. because then people can update fast via wifi from the phone itself Jul 24 14:21:20 re florian Jul 24 14:21:34 Its too bad Neo doesn't have a camera Jul 24 14:21:34 florian: Where can I download the GPEPhone image for the neo? :) Jul 24 14:21:53 It would be nice to introduce an interface where you can use sign language or something like that to input into it Jul 24 14:21:57 dtx: It's a question of taste. Jul 24 14:21:58 In lieu of a keyboard Jul 24 14:22:07 how so? Jul 24 14:22:08 hhf423: That is wishful thinking =) But such an update mechanism would rock indeed Jul 24 14:22:23 dtx: Personally I find cameras on phones pretty useless. Jul 24 14:22:26 stefan_schmidt: i'll upload one... Jul 24 14:22:31 florian: Cool Jul 24 14:22:42 florian: I'll test it. :) Jul 24 14:22:53 CoreDump|home: I could imagine that this is easier to implement than to write windows software :-) at least for all the linux developers Jul 24 14:23:06 Yeah, thats why I'm saying put it on there and this would be the first phone where we could actually find a use for it ;-) Jul 24 14:23:35 hhf423: as koen said, there is already some sort of windows app for dfu-util out there Jul 24 14:24:01 stefan_schmidt: did you see that 3D Barcodes they want to use for Wikipedia? So that you can photograph one and your phone opens an associated web page Jul 24 14:24:11 dtx: heh, some software tricks for OCR etc could be fun, but still useless as a normal day-by-day camera Jul 24 14:24:24 stefan_schmidt: I think the 3D barcodes were demonstrated on the last congress Jul 24 14:24:41 hhf423: http://www.datenfreihafen.org/projects/iec16022.html My personal pet project Jul 24 14:25:06 in any case I think there are good uses for a camera on a phone. and if only for the odd snapshot Jul 24 14:25:18 hhf423: I see some use, but prefer the choice to not have one. Jul 24 14:25:33 stefan: neo seems like it would be the ultimate phone, but I'm trying to think of some way to enable rapid input into it Jul 24 14:25:41 hhf423: We think about a solution for the camera problem for future devices. Jul 24 14:26:01 stefan_schmidt: sure, choice is always good. I was just at a customer site where cam-phones were not allowed. imagine to work there :-) Jul 24 14:26:02 dtx: yeah, input is hard. Jul 24 14:26:21 stefan_schmidt: I always like the Ericson detachable cameras Jul 24 14:26:26 stefan_schmidt: or a nice-to-attach USB cam Jul 24 14:26:38 XorA: exactly Jul 24 14:27:09 hmm, make it a plugin is cool. Jul 24 14:27:42 We will see. I'm just a software developer and have no ideas about the problems with this hardware stuff. Jul 24 14:28:16 an USB cam designed for the Neo could be nice, but I'm not sure the volumes would justify such an accessory at this point... Jul 24 14:28:28 anyway, at least it could take into account the need to be self-powered Jul 24 14:28:38 mjr: It will not work without power anyway. Jul 24 14:29:04 internal battery, whatever Jul 24 14:29:09 mjr: I don't see a camera before after-GTA02 anyway Jul 24 14:29:15 yeah, me neither Jul 24 14:29:35 and personally, I lug around a good quality pocket cam anyway Jul 24 14:30:43 * ScaredyCat will remove any camera in gta02 Jul 24 14:30:55 with a hammer if necessary Jul 24 14:31:03 nah, these days I just want to carry around one uber-gadget and not multiple devices Jul 24 14:31:16 * florian does not agree Jul 24 14:31:21 having two belts to carry them all was the nineties :-) Jul 24 14:31:26 ScaredyCat: Lucky guy that there will be none. :) Jul 24 14:32:03 * dtx doesn't want an expensive camera, just a cheap one for the oddball chance that a picture/video needs to be taken Jul 24 14:32:17 daxxar, ynezz : browser.garage.maemo.org may be another platform to build on - alternative to webkit and minimo Jul 24 14:32:17 The more toys packed in the funner Jul 24 14:32:47 daxxar: s/alternative/just minimo with a maemo wrapper/ Jul 24 14:32:50 do openmoko-rss-reader builds ? here it fails to build Jul 24 14:32:59 squalyl: fails here Jul 24 14:33:07 yesterday, everything was OK Jul 24 14:33:15 zecke: Fix your code... ;) Jul 24 14:33:25 XorA: then how to avoid building it? Jul 24 14:33:34 squalyl: I used yesterdays image Jul 24 14:33:56 lol OK Jul 24 14:35:37 squalyl: This bug? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=648 Jul 24 14:35:40 no one developed a bitbake openmoko-devel-image --exclude openmoko-rss-reader ? :D Jul 24 14:36:03 stefan_schmidt: Yeah this one Jul 24 14:36:36 empty_mind, in case you haven't got an answer yet, run-qemu-snapshot does a "readonly" enviroment, so next time you run it it'll be like first time again Jul 24 14:36:44 dcorking: I would prefer webkit over minimonster... webkit is smaller and faster Jul 24 14:36:44 squalyl: You can set the SRC_URI of the reader to yesterday. Means it use the code from yesterday. Jul 24 14:36:56 stefan_schmidt: cool ! Jul 24 14:37:48 squalyl: err, SRCDATE of course Jul 24 14:38:16 squalyl: Do you use mokomakefile? Jul 24 14:38:22 no Jul 24 14:38:25 ok Jul 24 14:38:27 plain raw build :D Jul 24 14:38:30 stefan_schmidt: http://linuxtogo.org/~florian/index.php?path=gpepe%2Ffic-gta01/ in a few minutes Jul 24 14:38:39 is there a browser in GPE? Jul 24 14:38:47 in /trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc of your svn tree Jul 24 14:39:01 dcorking: gpe-mini-browser Jul 24 14:39:17 squalyl: You need to change SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader = "now" from now to 20070722 e.g. Jul 24 14:39:17 does it work in build/conf/local.conf Jul 24 14:39:25 I did that Jul 24 14:39:36 florian: Cool. Hopefully I have some time to test it tonight. Jul 24 14:39:42 i heard that the maemo browser has cairo ripped out - so may be hard to localize Jul 24 14:39:51 squalyl: Not sure. Test it. Jul 24 14:39:58 I am Jul 24 14:43:23 gpe-mini-browser sounds cool - thanks florian Jul 24 14:44:01 stefan_schmidt: iirc you need to run ts calibration manually and move the softkeys Jul 24 14:44:19 florian: ok Jul 24 14:52:32 CoreDump|home you've got a tock to much in "'[]" - maybe escaping it would help Jul 24 14:52:44 whops wrong window Jul 24 14:52:58 ? Jul 24 14:53:30 SpeedEvil: that servers page, you mean software stuff ? Jul 24 14:54:01 sync servers, ipk servers etc ? Jul 24 14:54:08 CoreDump|home I focussed the wrong bitchx-window - used tab Jul 24 14:54:43 kristian-m: ah ;) Jul 24 14:55:47 hi jfreels Jul 24 14:55:49 *g* Jul 24 14:55:52 hey man Jul 24 14:55:58 still battling Jul 24 14:56:25 lunch time, the battle will continue Jul 24 15:00:37 Hmm. Everyone knows those little mechanical maze/ball-bearing/hole games that you tilt to move the balls. The accelerometers in p2 will work quite well for this. It'd also extend nicely into multiplayer. Jul 24 15:00:47 heh Jul 24 15:00:52 good idea Jul 24 15:00:59 what else can they be used for? Jul 24 15:01:06 I wonder what is holding the guys back from giving a short status every day? I mean, this is an "open source" project and there is almost no info on what is happening Jul 24 15:01:09 i like the "shake to wake" idea Jul 24 15:01:30 jfreels: except if you're walking along with it in your pocket.. Jul 24 15:01:55 you could probably make it accurate Jul 24 15:02:05 well, unless you exert 5g when you walk you should be fine Jul 24 15:02:13 hahaha Jul 24 15:02:23 yeah, on the tilt-o-whirl you could have a problem Jul 24 15:02:31 heh :) Jul 24 15:03:02 *sigh* Jul 24 15:03:07 my card hasn't been charged yet. Jul 24 15:03:23 i'll personally like to see it used to scan through the contacts...tilt right and it goes down the list, tilt left , it goes back up Jul 24 15:03:39 orospakr: did you read http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007765.html? Jul 24 15:03:49 orospakr: atm is doesn't seems to matter much... unless it was denied, then you'll never know Jul 24 15:04:08 orospakr: what kind of CC ? Mine took considerably longer than most, too. Jul 24 15:04:08 jfreels: you can tell which direction is 'down' - you can't tell roll about the down axis - this limits some uses. Jul 24 15:04:12 Kensan: ah, that answered the question. :) Jul 24 15:04:18 Kero: Visa. Jul 24 15:04:23 ahh ok Jul 24 15:04:37 but I ordered an Orange phone. :) Jul 24 15:04:56 (scuse me... what kind of /dev stuff input will we get from the accelerometers?) Jul 24 15:05:13 ah :) Jul 24 15:05:38 a numerical value that represents acceleration? Jul 24 15:05:39 oh, so they haven't even made yours yet then orospakr ;) Jul 24 15:05:51 hehe Jul 24 15:07:24 the FIC staff is slow to box the units because they're playing with their P2 beta units :) Jul 24 15:07:31 you basically get - physically - a 3D direction and a 2D magnitude Jul 24 15:08:09 Also - for two accelerometers of the sorts mentioned on the mailing list, you can tell which one a tap on the phone was closer to. Jul 24 15:08:40 SpeedEvil: librichter? Jul 24 15:08:57 oh, hmm, sorry, I said I was done earlier, didn't I? I guess I lied... Jul 24 15:09:21 qwe: don't know of existing libs Jul 24 15:09:29 I was joking :) Jul 24 15:09:47 why would it be a 2d magnitude? Jul 24 15:10:21 Err Jul 24 15:10:22 http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/sdl.html Jul 24 15:10:22 sorry Jul 24 15:10:24 magnitude Jul 24 15:11:17 you basically get a direction and a magnitude, and the motion of any vehicle you may be in mixes in with the desired movement. Jul 24 15:11:40 and there's no compass functionality except derived from the vector? Jul 24 15:12:30 it's precision isn't great, but how's its accuracy? if you move positive in longitude will it ever report negative in longitude due to noise? Jul 24 15:12:51 there is no compass Jul 24 15:12:54 what do you mean Jul 24 15:12:55 SpeedEvil, i'm not sure i understand what you mean Jul 24 15:13:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals Jul 24 15:13:19 correct me if I'm wrong, but 2 accelerometers also gives rotation information ? Jul 24 15:13:31 You're wrong - sort-of Jul 24 15:13:43 for the ones announced on the mailing list, they functionally don't. Jul 24 15:14:04 I've written this all up on the above page, which is at least moderately clear on what you can do with accelerometers, and what you can't. Jul 24 15:14:21 nevercmind i thought you were still talking about gps :) Jul 24 15:16:12 ScaredyCat: neat. :) Jul 24 15:17:31 SpeedEvil: it's a good and informative page, i must say. Jul 24 15:19:24 yes, a good page. Jul 24 15:19:49 An actual compass would be nice. Jul 24 15:19:57 so happens I have a compatible thinkpad....never thought about googleing to find extended apps to use it Jul 24 15:19:59 thanks for the link Jul 24 15:20:03 But - you're looking at probably $10, or $20 at least on the page Jul 24 15:20:17 err Jul 24 15:20:21 $20 on the price Jul 24 15:20:22 well, I don't have it personally, a co worker...I just sent him the link so I can play with it Jul 24 15:20:29 $10 cost for FIC - with compass Jul 24 15:25:40 SpeedEvil: I don't see the suggestion that Accelerometers could be used for entropy :D Jul 24 15:26:42 Placid: ~@: /usr/sbin/entropyd Jul 24 15:26:43 Please place phone in pocket and walk three miles to gather entropy. Jul 24 15:26:44 Good point. Jul 24 15:27:18 1,00what's the deal with openmokoboard.org? Jul 24 15:27:29 gah Jul 24 15:27:46 Qwell[]: lol Jul 24 15:27:58 3-axis compass would be nice. Jul 24 15:27:59 jfreels: stop using colours on IRC, it's annoying Jul 24 15:28:04 Qwell[]: more like "Please shake your phone frantically to gather entropy" Jul 24 15:28:13 Placid: what's the fun in that? Jul 24 15:28:23 flexible sensor board i/f maybe the answer Jul 24 15:28:42 why no led's is stumping me Jul 24 15:29:09 Qwell[]: heh, indeed. Jul 24 15:30:00 bah Jul 24 15:31:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS - a first cut at what might be nice on a AGPS server. Jul 24 15:31:44 openmoko: 03shoragan * r2387 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.22.x/ (. patches/): Create branch for 2.6.22.x kernel patches. Jul 24 15:33:05 test done: please note that putting SRCDATE_something in local.conf is unuseful. Jul 24 15:33:27 sigh hours to get that... Jul 24 15:33:43 * squalyl dreams of quadrixeons to build openmoko Jul 24 15:36:18 ahhh, carp, so who did not get payment mail will not get the phone shipped this week. darn. Jul 24 15:37:01 do you think it could build faster on a "SunOS hostname 5.10 Generic_118833-36 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-V890" Jul 24 15:37:13 Shipments this week? Yeah! Jul 24 15:37:42 argh no monotone on my school's server X_X aborting l33t build attempt Jul 24 15:38:45 squalyl: the mokomakefile builds its own monotone Jul 24 15:38:56 squalyl: iirc :) Jul 24 15:39:01 especially building the boost library is fun Jul 24 15:39:09 gcc processes eating 480+ MB of ram Jul 24 15:40:13 don-o: It would be great if mokomakefile tried to install his version in $HOME and not in system dirs, i'm not admin on this machine :) Jul 24 15:41:05 squalyl: yes i see. im not sure how much work that would be but its got to be possible. Jul 24 15:41:15 I'm trying. Jul 24 15:42:09 http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html Jul 24 15:43:56 don-o: make setup complains it does not find mtn :( Jul 24 15:43:59 I also wonder from the videos on youtube why the icons are not made bigger. at the moment using the phone with fingers looks hard to do Jul 24 15:44:10 really failed :/ Jul 24 15:44:21 I have to install all by hand Jul 24 15:45:22 but it's time to get back home. See ya tomorrow :) Jul 24 15:51:03 hi Jul 24 15:53:10 hhf423: THGERE IS A recast of the core apps going on internally to FIC at the moment. Jul 24 15:53:14 Easier finger-use Jul 24 15:53:33 Hi all :) Jul 24 15:53:33 sounds kinda anti open source Jul 24 15:53:48 release early, release often after all Jul 24 15:53:53 SpeedEvil: ah, thats good to hear Jul 24 15:54:10 I will be on United States next week for 15 days and I was thinking that it was a good time to buy a Neo1973 Jul 24 15:54:13 I get the feeling that they want to keep some sanity in the core apps. Jul 24 15:54:16 offray_: nope. Jul 24 15:54:21 buz: meh, I don't mind... I'll be rewriting the whole UI anyway... Jul 24 15:54:23 * Stephmw hides Jul 24 15:54:30 in qt or what Jul 24 15:54:31 offray_: it's almost certain that there won't be any in the states for sale then Jul 24 15:54:42 buz: I'm a heretic, I'll do it in Java Jul 24 15:54:50 offray_: it is unlikely that they will be able to ship you a phone within 15 days Jul 24 15:54:52 SpeedEvil: so you're an internal openmoko employee? Jul 24 15:54:55 SpeedEvil: not even for developers? Jul 24 15:54:55 offray_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 24 15:55:00 I have a question - is there a framework in place so that the phonecall *always* pops up the phone-answering app? Jul 24 15:55:01 duffyd: no Jul 24 15:55:05 offray_: no Jul 24 15:55:12 offray_: public reports Jul 24 15:55:42 SpeedEvil: ok, so how are you in the know? ;-) Jul 24 15:55:45 offray_: there have been a batch of 1000 made. It looks like all these have been sold - but this has not been confirmed. Jul 24 15:56:03 offray_: The production of a new batch has not been announced. Jul 24 15:56:09 duffyd: mailing list, IRC Jul 24 15:56:28 Stephmw: supposedly javafx already is on openmoko Jul 24 15:56:31 oh Jul 24 15:56:43 buz: running on the neo, not on openmoko Jul 24 15:56:52 SpeedEvil: that is a shame :( Jul 24 15:57:01 offray_: indeed. Jul 24 15:57:18 koen: where do you draw the line? if openmoko's kernel is used but another gui, what would it be? Jul 24 15:57:19 Best case, it could be around 3 weeks time before new phones are availble. Jul 24 15:57:25 buz: meh, JavaFX, JavaFX Mobile, etc... I want to see some source Jul 24 15:57:27 (i doubt sun wrote a complete stack) Jul 24 15:57:37 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007765.html Jul 24 15:57:42 Openmokos is IMO the whole distribution. Jul 24 15:57:42 buz: you mean linux kernel, right? Jul 24 15:57:49 buz: Sun probably used the SavaJe work as the starter Jul 24 15:57:52 this reads linke they will ship from second batch next week Jul 24 15:57:56 Consider the same question about using a redhat kernel. Jul 24 15:58:03 koen: yeah, kernel, parts of the userland maybe? Jul 24 15:58:18 hhf423: the initial batch of 1000 was split into two for shipping to the US Jul 24 15:58:18 like glibc, gcc, busybox? Jul 24 15:58:31 something like that yes Jul 24 15:58:44 SpeedEvil: ah, so you think next week is second part of first batch? Jul 24 15:58:46 that's still not openmoko Jul 24 15:58:52 in the end it boils down to how you define openmoko Jul 24 15:58:52 nothing has shipped for anybody yet AFAIC (except free phones some months ago) Jul 24 15:58:53 hhf423: from all indications, yes. Jul 24 15:59:02 IMO. Jul 24 15:59:06 by your reasoning ubuntu is running openmoko because it uses a kernel, glibc and gcc Jul 24 15:59:10 Openmoko is the whole distributioin. Jul 24 15:59:18 Much like ubuntu, or slackware, or debian Jul 24 15:59:25 being from outside U.S. is really difficult to get one Neo1973 here Jul 24 15:59:28 openmoko is a linux distro, that happens to run on some specific devices :) Jul 24 15:59:29 koen: no, ubuntu minus gnome is still ubuntu Jul 24 15:59:31 :( Jul 24 15:59:41 offray_: where are you? Jul 24 15:59:47 Colombia Jul 24 15:59:51 * cjb_ie runs fluxbox on ubuntu (or more specifically, his laptop does) Jul 24 15:59:55 you can pull bits out of it, and get a forked version, but if it's not a default install, ... Jul 24 15:59:56 * ewon will be moving to CA in time for GTA02 release :) Jul 24 15:59:57 offray_: I believe they ship everywhere Jul 24 16:00:05 I was thinking to get the machine and start some evangelism Jul 24 16:00:07 cjb_ie: hippy Jul 24 16:00:09 SpeedEvil: well obviously yes Jul 24 16:00:29 so what are the chances of getting mplayer up to a usable framerate? Jul 24 16:00:31 IMHO it's rather a question of definition Jul 24 16:00:35 will the GPU in gta02 help? Jul 24 16:00:36 s/.../then if you pull enough bits it's not there./ Jul 24 16:00:36 SpeedEvil meant: you can pull bits out of it, and get a forked version, but if it's not a default install, then if you pull enough bits it's not there. Jul 24 16:00:47 s/there/openmoko/ Jul 24 16:00:51 offray_: where will you be in the US during your visit? Jul 24 16:00:54 ewon: in principle. Jul 24 16:01:07 SpeedEvil: so where would you draw the line? Jul 24 16:01:14 the thought of watching battlestar torrents on my phone appeals to me :) Jul 24 16:01:26 ewon: it seems fairly certain that you can get fullscreen QVGA video that's been specially reencoded. Jul 24 16:01:27 offray_: here is what is known about shipping: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shipping_Notes Jul 24 16:01:44 GTA02 should eventually be able to do mpeg4-simple in hardware Jul 24 16:01:49 Something like mpeg1@120kbytes/sec Jul 24 16:01:51 if/as/when we get drivers for that Jul 24 16:02:07 You will _not_ be able to watch torrents on P1 Jul 24 16:02:08 hhf423: Thanks Jul 24 16:02:12 SpeedEvil: it might even do qvga mpeg4 Jul 24 16:02:18 buz: yeah. Jul 24 16:02:26 Without reencoding them that is. Jul 24 16:02:28 which is much better than mpeg1 Jul 24 16:02:35 more CPU though Jul 24 16:02:44 you could probably to video ipod torrents Jul 24 16:02:51 s/to/do/ Jul 24 16:02:52 buz meant: you could probably do video ipod torrents Jul 24 16:02:53 SpeedEvil: gta01 = p1? Jul 24 16:02:56 I looked at videos in 2.8" windows, and found you could go surprisingly low Jul 24 16:02:58 hhf423: Colombia is not there :( Jul 24 16:03:01 ewon: yes Jul 24 16:03:01 ewon: the current version, yes Jul 24 16:03:17 I will try to contact sales people to see what I can do Jul 24 16:03:18 offray_: but UPS ships there? Jul 24 16:03:18 well a few years back we watched qvga on normal tv Jul 24 16:03:21 (aka MPEG1) Jul 24 16:03:22 120*160 doesn't look much different from 240*320 unless you get pretty close Jul 24 16:03:25 heck some people still do Jul 24 16:03:44 offray_: somewhere else it said that they ship everywhere UPS ships Jul 24 16:03:51 And even mpeg1 you can drop the bitrate quite low at that sort of res Jul 24 16:04:10 hi all Jul 24 16:04:29 yeah but still, mpeg1 is a sucky codec Jul 24 16:04:47 will anyone be at OSCON with a P1? Jul 24 16:04:52 as is mpeg2 btw Jul 24 16:05:05 mpeg2 needs insane amounts of cpu to decode Jul 24 16:08:36 hhf423: I'm writing at this moment to sales people a event to Sean, I really would like to have the phone in this travel, let's wait what they say... would be really nice to have it Jul 24 16:09:45 so #24xx was the first 500 phones (600 RT #'s) Jul 24 16:09:52 that's interesting. Jul 24 16:11:00 buz: sucky codec - yes. However, even a sucky codec at mpeg1 and qvga will get many hours of video in a gig. Jul 24 16:13:29 i wonder what the difference in mpeg1 vs mpeg4 decoding cpu usage really is Jul 24 16:13:47 * SpeedEvil would do benchmarking, but for one small problem... Jul 24 16:13:59 Yup. Jul 24 16:14:04 I know the pain. Jul 24 16:14:32 i guess you could do relative benchmarking in qemu Jul 24 16:14:39 Not really. Jul 24 16:14:41 or maybe not Jul 24 16:14:46 not really Jul 24 16:14:50 Instructions don't really take the same amount of time. Jul 24 16:14:59 memory cache isn't emulated at all. Jul 24 16:15:02 yeah i figured that moments after i suggested it ;) Jul 24 16:15:31 It might give you accurate to within a bit over an order of magnitude - but I wouldn't rely on it for more than that. Jul 24 16:18:32 Does FIC plan to come out with a 3G openmoko phone? Jul 24 16:18:56 faq? Jul 24 16:18:56 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) Jul 24 16:19:13 basically - first the software needs to work and be saleable. Jul 24 16:19:18 indeed Jul 24 16:19:30 SpeedEvil: the only mention of 3G in the FAQ is "(No 3G in year 2007 models)" Jul 24 16:19:32 speaking of hardware, I wonder who the customer was that bailed? Jul 24 16:19:38 supposedly GP2X is able to play mpeg4 Jul 24 16:19:45 and iirc htat one uses s3c2410 too Jul 24 16:19:49 e.g. who the 1973 was originally designed for? Jul 24 16:19:53 buz are you sure? Jul 24 16:20:48 malsyned: there are 5 or so global high speed alternative networks Jul 24 16:21:18 malsyned: once the phone is up and sold as a mass market item - maybe the first 50000 sold, then we might see 3G ones. Jul 24 16:22:06 http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=22239 talks about xvid Jul 24 16:22:08 SpeedEvil: so as far as you know, they have no concrete plans in the works? Jul 24 16:22:22 malsyned: As far as we know, no. Jul 24 16:22:41 malsyned: the 3G modems are considerably more expensive than GSM ones. It may add $50-$100 to the price. Jul 24 16:23:05 They have announced they will release information on more devices in october. Jul 24 16:23:10 Some of these won't be phones. Jul 24 16:23:33 i'm guessing media players and stand alone gps Jul 24 16:23:35 looks like the comm mailing list is getting spammed by gmail addresses again :-( Jul 24 16:24:20 A camera would be nice. Jul 24 16:24:21 from gmail itself or just a joejob using random "@gmail.com" as the sender Jul 24 16:25:08 a camera would be nice. too bad the 1973's USB host isn't powered, or you could snap one on when you needed it. Jul 24 16:25:47 I mean - a standalone camera. Jul 24 16:25:54 No phone. Jul 24 16:26:21 oh, just a camera running OpenMoko? that'd be pretty neat. What kinds of features would you want to hack into it that don't come on conventional cameras? Jul 24 16:26:57 Anything you can imagine. Jul 24 16:27:14 I'm asking: what do you imagine? Jul 24 16:27:18 Plug in a USB network card, and you have a ultimately flexible webcam. Jul 24 16:27:29 The case is plastic and feels more like a toy than other internet-enabled handhelds like the Treo and the iPhone Jul 24 16:27:38 http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html Jul 24 16:27:55 Automatically capture pictures and print to bluetooth printers, ... Jul 24 16:28:24 GPS stamping of location, ... Jul 24 16:28:41 On wiki. Jul 24 16:28:47 GPS stamping of location is a real good one. Jul 24 16:28:49 How do I link to a category from a page. Jul 24 16:29:06 [[Category:Foo]] just adds the page to that category Jul 24 16:29:41 a camera option in an mobil phone is so embarrassing. With those tiny optic making shitty pictures Jul 24 16:29:44 has anyone else noticed that on the mailing list all the people who want a camera, can't reply properly Jul 24 16:30:04 * SpeedEvil is one of them - though he responded correctly. Jul 24 16:30:25 * SpeedEvil is OpenMoko@mauv e.plus.com Jul 24 16:30:39 has anyone else noticed that on the mailing list all the people (except 1) who want a camera, can't reply properly Jul 24 16:30:44 :) Jul 24 16:31:00 you're surely not suggesting that only kids want a camera? Jul 24 16:31:08 uhm..... Jul 24 16:31:08 * Stephmw is aghast at the suggestion Jul 24 16:31:15 :P Jul 24 16:31:31 i thnk cam would b useful Jul 24 16:31:39 seriously i would actually like a cam Jul 24 16:31:51 ahh, that's not the same thing though Jul 24 16:32:08 usecases on the Wiki are welcomed though :) Jul 24 16:32:22 They are alrealdy there. Jul 24 16:32:33 When I first got my current phone, I figured I'd never use the camera. there have been times that I've been glad for the crappy little camera. it sucks for photography, but it's great when I want to document or remember something. Jul 24 16:32:59 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Camera Jul 24 16:33:08 Indeed. Jul 24 16:33:17 99% of the time, it can replace writing stuff down. Jul 24 16:33:53 I'd quite like to have sex with the girl in the office opposite.. that's not going to happen either ;) Jul 24 16:34:08 SpeedEvil: that's not really usecases though... I want more meat on someone's "I wanna cam" cries Jul 24 16:34:11 right. the fidelity doesn't have to be there for every application, and the convenience of having a camera with essentially 0 volume is nothing to sneer at. Jul 24 16:34:17 Stephmw: ah. Jul 24 16:34:35 I'd trimmed the camera wishlist entry mercilessly when it was in the main hardware wishlist. Jul 24 16:34:47 woops :) Jul 24 16:35:03 but yeah, proper usecases means you can gauge the quality needs, there's all types out there Jul 24 16:35:55 I do however think that there should be some sort of edge connector so that addons can be clipped on... one of those could be a camera, Jul 24 16:36:18 ScaredyCat: connectionless induction coupling for data and power? :D Jul 24 16:36:24 Edge connectors are _hard_. Jul 24 16:36:52 in other words, you can have your camera so long as I don;t have to... :) Jul 24 16:37:17 SpeedEvil: that's your challenge for this week :) Jul 24 16:37:38 Robust, hard to damage, cheap, small footprint, ESD safe, large insertion count before failure. Pick any 3. Jul 24 16:38:06 well, look at the ipod... Jul 24 16:38:46 naah, the ipod doesn't see as much punishment a phone would Jul 24 16:39:01 you don't put your keys in the ipod's pouch, right? Jul 24 16:39:07 people do that with their phones Jul 24 16:39:08 but you're not going to plug/unplug our camera all the time... Jul 24 16:39:36 most with either have it or not... then all it needs is a cover for when nothing is plugged in Jul 24 16:39:41 you can easily damage a connector without unplugging Jul 24 16:39:50 the screen is going to be more of a worry there Stephmw Jul 24 16:39:59 there's lots of complaints about the ipod's audio connector for instance... and that's a simple one Jul 24 16:40:32 Connectors are _HARD_. Jul 24 16:41:05 * Stephmw tidies up the sentence some more, wiki-style... Jul 24 16:41:17 _HARD_. Jul 24 16:41:22 there :) Jul 24 16:41:34 but possible Jul 24 16:41:46 (SpeedEvil, [[:Category:Foo]]) Jul 24 16:41:58 hard typically means expensive alas Jul 24 16:42:11 and who the hell is wanting to take pictures of flowers?1 Jul 24 16:42:27 i mean, we're geeks, we don't even go outside Jul 24 16:42:38 tuukkah: yeah - worked that out. Jul 24 16:42:43 haha Jul 24 16:42:45 * Stephmw heads home Jul 24 16:45:03 Hello. Jul 24 16:45:32 Hello! Jul 24 16:52:26 You know how some ISPs block port 25 to prevent spam, is that legal? Jul 24 16:52:43 "legal" ? Jul 24 16:52:57 yes Jul 24 16:53:03 You sign a contract. Jul 24 16:53:03 Is it according to your contract :) Jul 24 16:53:38 So if a phone company wanted to make a contract that you could dial any number except those ending in 5 they could do that? Jul 24 16:54:11 i never understood why they just don't block 137,139 and 445 so most of the worms can't get through in the first place... Jul 24 16:54:12 Sure. Jul 24 16:54:24 calamous_: as long as it's spelled out in the contract. Jul 24 16:54:53 calamous_: However, if the user is not _CLEARLY_ informed of this, then it may be invalid - in the UK under the unfair terms and contracts act. Jul 24 16:54:56 SpeedEvil: I understand. That makes me so mad that companies fuck with the internet. I wish there existed regulation for that Jul 24 16:57:13 calamous_, use ISP's SMTP Jul 24 16:58:04 I'm of two minds in this. Jul 24 16:58:14 Yes, blocking port 25 is bad. Jul 24 16:58:15 Dmitry_Platonov: My port 25 works :). Its just that my friends don't. For practial reasons they should do that, but out of principle I dont want them telling people what they can and cant connect to Jul 24 16:58:19 or tunnel your smtp traffic Jul 24 16:58:40 However, shitloads of machines spewing out spam over unblocked port 25 is worse. Jul 24 16:58:47 botnetted machines Jul 24 16:59:04 * SpeedEvil has recently expanded http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Camera Jul 24 16:59:09 Added use-cases. Jul 24 16:59:25 Stephmw[away] Jul 24 16:59:31 A tunnel needs a machine with that port open. Jul 24 16:59:38 No, it doesn't. Jul 24 16:59:40 SpeedEvil: What if they decided that IRC was bad and not only did they block its port they used layer7 protocol analyzers to figure out what was IRC and block it Jul 24 16:59:42 It requires a VPN Jul 24 16:59:51 SpeedEvil: the accelerometer in an insurance claim is an interesting use case. Jul 24 16:59:52 calamous_: then you pick another provider. Jul 24 16:59:59 And GPS. Jul 24 17:00:06 I have GPS logs from my last car crash. Jul 24 17:00:12 SpeedEvil: in the US where I am I dont have many options Jul 24 17:00:16 However, they reveal it to be totally my fault. Jul 24 17:00:45 GPS logs could be of great use with defending against speeding convictions. Jul 24 17:00:48 In theory. Jul 24 17:00:51 Anyway, Hi guys Jul 24 17:00:58 SpeedEvil: People are lucky here to even have the choice between the telephone monoploy's DSL and the cable monopoly's cable Jul 24 17:01:01 calamous_, they can not analyze ssh tunnels/ipsec Jul 24 17:02:03 Dimetry_Platonov: thankfully this is true. but if they really wanted they could do a main in the middle if you did not know the ssl cert's key Jul 24 17:02:30 Dimitry_Platonov: your ssh would just say the fingerprint has changed in cap letters Jul 24 17:03:07 But lets hope it never comes to that Jul 24 17:03:28 calamous_, it wold be considered illegal i think Jul 24 17:04:04 Dimitry_Platonov: In the us under the bush admininstation there is no way of knowing Jul 24 17:04:15 the phase2 phone has 3d acc. ? Jul 24 17:04:48 Considering that AT&T allows the NSA to analyze all of its data. and bush allowed warrentless wiretaps Jul 24 17:07:29 SiO2, possibly, will have. Jul 24 17:07:38 thnx Jul 24 17:20:19 " I have GPS logs from my last car crash." Jul 24 17:20:29 you make it sound like a regular thing Jul 24 17:20:58 what, you didn't know his day job is as a nascar driver? Jul 24 17:21:09 Well - I've only had one. Jul 24 17:21:43 SpeedEvil: what does the log look like? fast fast fast fast stop? Jul 24 17:22:22 54MPH to 35 when I crossed the kerb. Jul 24 17:22:37 yikes. Jul 24 17:22:49 10 years later we will have GPS receivers pre-installed, logging all our tracks/speeds. Jul 24 17:22:49 Then rapidly decellerating over rough grass till I hit a barrier at 8MPH or so. Jul 24 17:22:58 Which was quite enough to break the car. Jul 24 17:23:18 I'd imagine. Jul 24 17:24:39 does receiver tracking was distuped when crash occured? does log shows signal strength? Jul 24 17:25:01 Nope, was just fine. Jul 24 17:25:14 Actual decelleration wasn't >brakes at any point. Jul 24 17:25:27 The barrier was of the swing-away sort. Jul 24 17:26:03 * SpeedEvil wanders away to check the brakes on his car. Jul 24 17:26:10 And takes the GPS logger ) Jul 24 17:26:14 (just repaired.) Jul 24 17:27:14 anybody tried to run their neo from AAs? Jul 24 17:27:56 no but the aa->usb adapters should work Jul 24 17:29:23 Well, for the GTA01 you still need to have the internal battery installed. Jul 24 17:31:16 does GTA stand for something? Jul 24 17:31:26 mokobot: gta Jul 24 17:31:36 silly boy Jul 24 17:31:36 don-o: Grant Theft Auto Jul 24 17:31:38 bot* Jul 24 17:31:46 don-o: lol Jul 24 17:31:53 http://www.frogpad.com/information/bluefroginfo.asp Jul 24 17:32:21 don-o - I still wonder, if it stands for anything. Jul 24 17:35:48 support of frogpad Jul 24 17:46:12 * hozer wonders when his order is going to get processed Jul 24 17:46:53 never. Jul 24 17:47:03 FIC just went out of business. :P Jul 24 17:47:12 What color did you order, hozer? Jul 24 17:47:15 :-P Jul 24 17:47:20 :P Jul 24 17:51:50 Brakes work :) Jul 24 17:52:42 Congratulations. :-) Jul 24 17:53:17 how many developer are working on openmoko project? Jul 24 17:54:01 Several. Jul 24 17:54:07 ozark1: I didn't put a preference Jul 24 17:54:07 :) Jul 24 17:55:01 what can i do to help on development? Jul 24 17:55:01 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Jul 24 17:55:20 dando: whatever you want! Jul 24 17:55:26 check out the source from svn and get crackin! Jul 24 17:55:59 i did that allready! Jul 24 17:56:12 i`m did a bugfix Jul 24 17:56:35 and loaded patch in bugzilla Jul 24 17:56:40 fine Jul 24 17:56:52 is it possible to get access on svn repository Jul 24 17:56:59 sorry Jul 24 17:57:05 writeing access Jul 24 17:58:57 hi stephmw Jul 24 17:58:58 Or let me ask this way ! who has writing permissions? employee Jul 24 17:59:04 employee only? Jul 24 17:59:10 no not at all Jul 24 17:59:32 does anyone have a hg or git mirror of the repo? Jul 24 18:00:28 having to have svn commit access slows down people wanting to make speculative changes Jul 24 18:00:48 hozer, use svk Jul 24 18:01:13 hozer: ok Jul 24 18:01:33 svk is messy.. it's trying to put distributed functionality on top of a centralized system Jul 24 18:01:44 hey woglinde Jul 24 18:02:16 they are just using the storage layer of svn Jul 24 18:02:22 hozer: it's a start Jul 24 18:02:37 <_Qwerty_> was the battery time 4 hours on the neo1973? Jul 24 18:03:15 * Stephmw hands _Qwerty_ a piece of string Jul 24 18:03:40 has anyone actually had their order processed ..? Jul 24 18:05:14 <_Qwerty_> hehe thanks for the string :) Jul 24 18:05:38 <_Qwerty_> hope its a mobile string :) Jul 24 18:06:45 _Qwerty_: The real question is, how long is it? Jul 24 18:06:53 _Qwerty_, no, this for woman ;) *arks* Jul 24 18:07:32 we want a phone for man Jul 24 18:07:35 Cause the length of that string is directly proportinal to the battery life of the neo. Jul 24 18:08:08 exactly. Jul 24 18:11:32 <_Qwerty_> serously Jul 24 18:12:21 hi everyone Jul 24 18:12:29 how do you listen to mp3s?.. through the usb? Jul 24 18:13:07 I use a speaker and my ears Jul 24 18:13:46 I use them to modulate the vibration Jul 24 18:13:47 connected to the usb port or through bluetooth? Jul 24 18:14:01 on the phone duh :P Jul 24 18:14:29 oh, I dunno...I have not gotten my phone working yet Jul 24 18:14:32 i'll report when I do Jul 24 18:14:44 well.. whats the plan, since theres a media player? Jul 24 18:15:51 Frostshoc: tehre are speakers on the phone. Jul 24 18:15:58 Frostshoc: or you can plug in headphones. Jul 24 18:16:07 Or use bluetooth phones Jul 24 18:16:16 I don't see a standard headphone jack on the phone Jul 24 18:16:21 s/ph/headp/ Jul 24 18:16:23 neither do i Jul 24 18:16:24 SpeedEvil meant: Or use bluetooth headpones Jul 24 18:16:25 there are none Jul 24 18:16:35 you plug an adaptor into the headset jack Jul 24 18:16:45 there isn't a jack.... Jul 24 18:16:52 oh wait Jul 24 18:16:53 theres only usb? Jul 24 18:16:55 nevermind....didn't notice it Jul 24 18:16:58 XD Jul 24 18:17:01 There is a headset jack Jul 24 18:17:03 ok Jul 24 18:17:06 there is, on the left hand side of the device Jul 24 18:17:06 opposite side to the USB jack. Jul 24 18:17:09 yep Jul 24 18:17:11 sry Jul 24 18:17:24 http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html Jul 24 18:17:31 one important criteria is to be able to listen to mp3s through regular headphones Jul 24 18:17:34 standard kit Jul 24 18:17:48 there should be a headset inkl. Jul 24 18:18:01 Frostshoc: not 3.5mm ones, you need an adapter. Jul 24 18:18:14 It's been stated that in the future, the intent is to have a 3.5mm connector. Jul 24 18:18:21 ok Jul 24 18:18:37 This won't be the next device though Jul 24 18:19:01 im amazed that so few people are involved in this Jul 24 18:19:10 Frostshoc: what do you mean so few? Jul 24 18:19:36 There are a few core people, but they are working in a _large_ company, which makes phones. Jul 24 18:19:46 And then there are the rest of the non-employed devs. Jul 24 18:20:09 ok Jul 24 18:21:11 aprox. how many developers in total? Jul 24 18:21:28 20, 50, 100? Jul 24 18:21:56 * Stephmw hands Frostshoc another piece of string Jul 24 18:22:02 ;) Jul 24 18:22:09 * Qwell[] breaks out a new spool Jul 24 18:22:09 hehe.. Jul 24 18:22:23 shouldnt be that hard to estimate Jul 24 18:22:41 how many active accounds on the svn server? :) Jul 24 18:22:59 svn-commit is in-house only, not for the public Jul 24 18:23:11 so... how would you judge public developer numbers? Jul 24 18:23:28 they somehow have to submit the code? Jul 24 18:23:42 status/history on the repository Jul 24 18:23:55 parse out the names and do a uniq Jul 24 18:24:49 trying to finish off the mokomakefile for the last two days, keep getting "make setup Jul 24 18:24:49 [ -e stamps/bitbake ] || \ Jul 24 18:24:49 ( svn co -r HEAD svn://svn.berlios.de/bitbake/branches/bitbake-1.6 bitbake ) Jul 24 18:24:49 svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection timed out Jul 24 18:24:49 make: *** [setup-bitbake] Error 1 Jul 24 18:24:49 " any idea if I'm doing something wrong? Jul 24 18:25:25 can display resolution be set with qemu-system-arm so that it looks like landscape view? and hope GTK+ works on it? Jul 24 18:25:29 anyone else been able to svn bitbake? Jul 24 18:25:35 Frostshoc: there have been figures released from mokomakefile Jul 24 18:25:45 SpeedEvil: ok Jul 24 18:25:48 downloads of mokomakefile Jul 24 18:25:54 by the author. Jul 24 18:26:00 However, I've forgotten it. Jul 24 18:26:44 is there a stripped glibc in the openmoko distro? i require string operations. Is there lex and yacc, or are there any string parsers available? Jul 24 18:27:06 radiorental: can you ping svn.berlios.de Jul 24 18:27:26 awk is in there IIRC Jul 24 18:27:27 yup Jul 24 18:28:02 6gcb77: 4 bytes from sheep.berlios.de (195.37.77.137): icmp_seq=1 ttl=46 time=98.9 ms Jul 24 18:28:46 can you run the "svn co" command manually? Jul 24 18:29:32 radiorental: Are you running make as root? Yesterday you were having permission issues on that directory. Jul 24 18:29:41 berlios has issues sometimes. ;) Jul 24 18:30:38 permissions shouldnt affect svn access to bitbake... Jul 24 18:30:43 a stripped glibc !? why that? Jul 24 18:31:10 dando, string.h, stdio.h and others? Jul 24 18:31:17 I'll try running it manually, failign that, try again tomorrow - thanks all! Jul 24 18:32:03 I ran it manually, and it was really slow to start but it worked Jul 24 18:32:14 so it dont has to be stripped! oe does it? Jul 24 18:33:08 quit Jul 24 18:33:12 gcb77: again with the me not knowning sheit about anything much. How would I go about running the download manually and patch that in to the rest of the make? Jul 24 18:34:23 hi everyone Jul 24 18:34:43 hi Jul 24 18:35:29 mbuf: im no super geek. dont worry just trying to uinderstand Jul 24 18:36:06 i thought glibc is the g++ lib so it should iclude iostream and so on ! Jul 24 18:36:11 radiorental: I haven't done that either... I was just hoping it'd help you troubleshoot... maybe networking issues or so Jul 24 18:36:21 not stdio.h Jul 24 18:36:24 is there any of you that had been using MokoMakefile to get an openmoko-devel-image? Jul 24 18:36:38 alep1, yes Jul 24 18:36:49 because I'm having trouble with the last compilation Jul 24 18:36:52 radiorental: I have a VMWare image with a system pre-configured with the makefile, and a configured dev environment Jul 24 18:36:55 alep1, on Debian Etch, everything occupies around 10G Jul 24 18:37:54 gcb77: oh ok, no worries, few people have commented on issues with berlios. There's a slim chance its a vpn issue here at work but svn works elsewhere so the port must be open. Will try again tomorrow, thanks... Jul 24 18:37:57 oh that's not the problem. it just won't compile because it says that something related to openmoko-rssreader and webkit fails Jul 24 18:38:30 this is after a "make update" Jul 24 18:39:40 alep1, there were some chages to webkit and there are still some known problems Jul 24 18:41:22 tell me if im wrong a striped binary is a binray without symbols !? Jul 24 18:44:36 dando not really Jul 24 18:44:38 dando, you're right Jul 24 18:44:42 jeje Jul 24 18:44:55 okay ; lol Jul 24 18:45:16 hm okay Jul 24 18:45:20 woglinde: what else? Jul 24 18:45:27 no is right Jul 24 18:45:29 sorry Jul 24 18:45:52 a striped binary usually is smaller than an unstriped Jul 24 18:46:03 right Jul 24 18:46:32 stripped means just that the debugging symbols had been ripped off and the exe is smaller in size Jul 24 18:46:57 thats what i meant Jul 24 18:47:03 my englich is not so good Jul 24 18:47:08 dando man strip Jul 24 18:47:13 will probaly help you Jul 24 18:47:19 thx Jul 24 18:48:02 A c++ applilation it can be up to 40 % size it shrinks Jul 24 18:48:33 At c applikation not so much Jul 24 18:48:35 any hint on my little issue on compiling the devel-image? Jul 24 18:51:19 alep1 your error is know Jul 24 18:51:30 but dont know when it will befixed Jul 24 18:51:39 try to workt with SRCDATE Jul 24 18:51:55 -> < stefan_schmidt> squalyl: You need to change SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader = "now" from now to 20070722 e.g. Jul 24 18:52:43 ok, let's try that Jul 24 18:56:48 rtp: I found the problem with suspending with sound, but I cant officially work on it until later in the week Jul 24 18:57:38 XorA|gone: heh. how come ? :)) Jul 24 19:00:26 guaqua, what is the code/setting to use landscape on qemu? Jul 24 19:00:37 rtp: I work for Wolfson so Neo work is support, I have a deadline to finish another bit of code Jul 24 19:01:25 XorA|gone: ok :) Jul 24 19:01:28 have they started shipping yet? Jul 24 19:01:57 rtp: but bonus is, if I wait long enough the s3c 2.6.23 breakage will be fixed :-) Jul 24 19:02:47 XorA|gone: Ben has sent the patches and I've an url for them, so you won't have to wait too long :) Jul 24 19:03:19 rtp: I know, I just need to integrate them Jul 24 19:03:27 anyway dinner time Jul 24 19:09:26 any explanations on the shipping delays? Jul 24 19:11:31 yes, the explanation was..."Units have not been shipped yet" Jul 24 19:11:42 that isn't an explanation Jul 24 19:11:59 ha...it's about as good as it's gonna get. ;) Jul 24 19:13:01 that's ridiculous. my card was charged 1 week ago. a little bit of customer relations would be good. Jul 24 19:14:53 that SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader thing didn't worked for me :-( Jul 24 19:15:18 blek: this thread might answer some questions: Jul 24 19:15:20 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007765.html Jul 24 19:15:29 still can't compile openmoko-devel-image using MokoMakefile Jul 24 19:16:14 * mokobot hands ScaredyCat Jason1's neo Jul 24 19:16:37 bnm Jul 24 19:17:10 mokobot does weird things Jul 24 19:17:59 Hmm, the RTC works fine on the neo... Now I need a bigish clock and I can use the neo as a watch replacement. ;o) Jul 24 19:18:06 lol Jul 24 19:18:22 haha Jul 24 19:18:35 how visible is the screen with the backlight off? Jul 24 19:18:39 I'll show you how weird of stuff mokobot does Jul 24 19:18:40 ie. black/white stuff? Jul 24 19:18:46 sandos - Not at all. Jul 24 19:18:47 Please don't let this man torture me. Jul 24 19:19:22 mokobot - I heard that thing already ;) Jul 24 19:19:27 Elrond: seriously? both mine and gfs phone are capable of low-contrast display with not backlight Jul 24 19:19:36 s/not/no/ Jul 24 19:19:36 sandos meant: Elrond: seriously? both mine and gfs phone are capable of low-contrast display with no backlight Jul 24 19:19:53 sandos - Just black, nothing to see. Jul 24 19:20:22 ok Jul 24 19:20:43 that sounds like some sort power-saving feature... no? Jul 24 19:20:59 I thought the LCD itself drew extremely little power though Jul 24 19:21:40 the lcd itself is probably very power efficient. Jul 24 19:21:51 But it's produced in a way, that it only works with backlight on. Jul 24 19:21:56 aha ok Jul 24 19:22:32 any of you have had the same problem? how did you solved it? Jul 24 19:24:16 alep1 - I have used mokomakefile only for basic setup, after that I've only compiled specific .ipk Jul 24 19:24:25 is there a list of available locales for the gui? Jul 24 19:24:44 a friend just asked me if he could get his neo with a german interface Jul 24 19:25:57 dcordes later sure Jul 24 19:26:33 what is the diff between the advanced and base? Jul 24 19:26:33 mick_home: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Jul 24 19:26:55 ah - seems there is a FAQ :) Jul 24 19:26:55 Elrond, how do you do to compile an image for qemu or the neo itself? Jul 24 19:27:13 alep1 - I never did ;o) Jul 24 19:27:31 alep1 - My neo had an image installed, and now I only update packages. Jul 24 19:27:57 apt: reverse hello esrever :tobokom Jul 24 19:27:58 mokobot: reverse olleh Jul 24 19:28:03 ah Jul 24 19:28:05 still in place Jul 24 19:28:15 ~reverse reverse Jul 24 19:28:16 esrever Jul 24 19:28:17 esrever Jul 24 19:28:33 je...well, I'm not as lucky as you, and I don't have a Neo yet...have to play with qemu until I can get one Jul 24 19:28:34 nuns nuns! Jul 24 19:28:35 how easy is it to brick it? (i'm wondering if i need to get the advanced) Jul 24 19:28:45 oh no Jul 24 19:29:11 ~reverse blah esrever Jul 24 19:29:12 reverse halb Jul 24 19:29:12 reverse halb Jul 24 19:29:26 ~reverse blah esrever~ Jul 24 19:29:27 ~reverse halb Jul 24 19:29:27 ~reverse halb Jul 24 19:29:29 blah Jul 24 19:29:40 <_llll_> why so many bots in here? Jul 24 19:29:59 ~can I has a tracking number Jul 24 19:29:59 No. Jul 24 19:30:04 bill gates Jul 24 19:30:16 mick_home - If you don't touch u-boot, you should be able to recover from any problems. I don't have a debug board and didn't brick it for the months I have it now. Jul 24 19:30:16 mokobot: bill gates Jul 24 19:30:17 it has been said that bill gates is in Hell. Jul 24 19:30:19 _llll_: We're not listening to you. We know you're a bot. Nice try, though. Jul 24 19:30:25 ~I can has tracking number? Jul 24 19:30:26 You can has tracking number? Jul 24 19:30:29 heh. Jul 24 19:30:34 Elrond: thanks Jul 24 19:30:59 now i need to look at what will be in the GTA02 (is it worth waiting for) Jul 24 19:31:05 surely the correct response is: tracking code not yours Jul 24 19:31:10 i don't care about faster cpu etc Jul 24 19:31:19 ~help Jul 24 19:31:21 are there any plans on creating some eyecandy for the gui to make full benefit of the 2d/3d accerlator? Jul 24 19:31:23 * _llll_ puts the whole channel on ignore Jul 24 19:31:44 mick_home - faster cpu, more flash, larger battery, accelerometers, wifi. Jul 24 19:31:45 /part Jul 24 19:31:55 anyone knows when the GTA02 enters in production stage? Jul 24 19:31:58 oh wifi... that is worth the wait Jul 24 19:31:58 so that _llll_, complete tard no? ;) Jul 24 19:32:37 * ScaredyCat giggles and pokes _llll_ with a stick Jul 24 19:32:51 <_llll_> hilights still hilight me Jul 24 19:33:18 highlights? Jul 24 19:33:21 k Jul 24 19:33:25 muppet Jul 24 19:33:27 :) Jul 24 19:33:36 alep1 before christmas Jul 24 19:33:41 2020 Jul 24 19:34:02 dcordes - You can write that software ;-) Jul 24 19:34:13 * ScaredyCat goes to see what SpeedEvil has put on the wiki this afternoon Jul 24 19:34:29 moko pr0n? Jul 24 19:35:07 I know october is the planned date to go massive, but I was hoping that it becomes available sooner than that Jul 24 19:35:24 so, whats the highest RT ticket to be confirmed charged yet? or confirmed shipped? :) Jul 24 19:35:45 nothing is shipped afaik Jul 24 19:37:01 ~p1 Jul 24 19:37:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 24 19:37:07 juri_: ^^^ Jul 24 19:38:38 ~~ Jul 24 19:38:39 Every moment in which I'm called upon is torture. Jul 24 19:38:45 ~ Jul 24 19:38:50 ~~~~~ Jul 24 19:38:51 grrrr Jul 24 19:38:55 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jul 24 19:39:01 ~~ Jul 24 19:39:02 Every moment in which I'm called upon is torture. Jul 24 19:39:04 ~~ Jul 24 19:39:21 ~~~ Jul 24 19:39:22 I HATE YOU, dtx!!! Jul 24 19:39:23 ~lart dtx Jul 24 19:39:24 * apt_ send killer squirrels to attack dtx Jul 24 19:39:24 * mokobot flings poo at dtx Jul 24 19:39:47 ~lart ScaredyCat Jul 24 19:39:47 * apt_ takes out ScaredyCat with the trash Jul 24 19:39:47 * mokobot tries to shut ScaredyCat up Jul 24 19:39:49 * mbuf how i wish i was a moderator, how i wish the threads on "OK, the forum is coming" was on a forum, how i wish there was a "remove topic" button on the forum Jul 24 19:40:09 lol Jul 24 19:40:27 ~lart the president of the United States of America Jul 24 19:40:27 * apt_ wallops the president of the United States of America with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long Jul 24 19:40:27 * mokobot acting on orders from an unspecified client drags the president of the United States of America into court suing for $200 million Jul 24 19:40:56 I think those bots just committed a felony Jul 24 19:41:16 ~blame atx Jul 24 19:41:17 * apt_ blames atx (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Jul 24 19:41:34 yes, bow down to your new Canadian overlords Jul 24 19:41:39 * ckuethe waits Jul 24 19:41:47 I for one welcome... Jul 24 19:42:27 The Simpsons Movie? Jul 24 19:42:49 jebus save me Jul 24 19:43:45 I don't even believe in Jebus. Jul 24 19:43:47 spider pig spider pig Jul 24 19:44:04 ~simpsons Jul 24 19:44:04 [simpsons] a Yellow family consisting of Maggie, Lisa, Bart, Homer and Marge. They are comical in nature and very entertaining. in Australia they can be found on channel 10 at 6:00pm Weeknights Jul 24 19:44:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM8VO9GCps Jul 24 19:44:25 spider pig ^^ Jul 24 19:44:27 lol Jul 24 19:44:34 nice Jul 24 19:44:34 ~family guy Jul 24 19:45:25 I can't wait for that movie Jul 24 19:45:35 ~pr0n Jul 24 19:45:49 dtx: stop playing. Jul 24 19:45:51 how do i set a faq? Jul 24 19:46:19 daMaestro: You mean a factoid? Jul 24 19:46:20 where? Jul 24 19:46:37 ~Family Guy Jul 24 19:46:38 family guy is probably a cheap knock off of the Simpsons. Jul 24 19:46:39 mokobot: a fact is some thing Jul 24 19:46:39 sure Jul 24 19:46:39 okay, ScaredyCat Jul 24 19:46:55 ~a fact is Jul 24 19:46:56 ~a fact Jul 24 19:47:03 ~a fact is Jul 24 19:47:10 mokobot: a fact Jul 24 19:47:18 mokobot: you llama Jul 24 19:47:21 buggy tcl :p Jul 24 19:47:25 lol Jul 24 19:47:28 hehe Jul 24 19:47:28 ~family guy Jul 24 19:47:29 [family guy] a cheap knock off of the Simpsons. Jul 24 19:47:29 family guy is, like, the most redundantly boring cartoon on Earth which uses the same nonsensical flashback mechanism over and over to attain cheap laughs. Jul 24 19:47:41 laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag Jul 24 19:47:45 There we go Jul 24 19:48:08 ~bush Jul 24 19:48:08 bush is, like, chick plumbing or the current president and potential dictator, or the guy that made stupidity fashionable. Jul 24 19:48:16 haha Jul 24 19:48:17 awesome Jul 24 19:48:50 ~dick Jul 24 19:48:51 dick is, like, male genatalia, or Dessimat0r Jul 24 19:48:57 Elrond, no I can't with my level of knowledge. Jul 24 19:48:57 mokobot: a fact is some thing Jul 24 19:48:57 ScaredyCat: i already had it that way Jul 24 19:49:02 mokobot: a fact Jul 24 19:49:13 mokodot: forcat a fact Jul 24 19:49:21 ~decider Jul 24 19:49:39 ~colonoscopized Jul 24 19:49:45 http://www.phonegg.com/compare/3/Apple-iPhone-vs-FIC-Neo1973.html Jul 24 19:49:47 ~damn Jul 24 19:50:11 ~dtx Jul 24 19:50:13 mokodot: forgat a fact Jul 24 19:50:13 mokodot: forget a fact Jul 24 19:50:13 typling by character :/ Jul 24 19:50:13 oh ffs... Jul 24 19:50:15 * ScaredyCat stabs keyboard Jul 24 19:50:24 lol Jul 24 19:50:42 ~linux Jul 24 19:50:43 linux is probably the cure for cancer, AIDS and slavery to corporations Jul 24 19:50:44 daMaestro: I like the little spider-web chart at the end. Jul 24 19:50:49 ~AIDS Jul 24 19:50:50 aids are what ody has from having so much gay sex Jul 24 19:50:56 ~ody Jul 24 19:50:57 i heard ody is kewl Jul 24 19:50:57 What does it mean? Jul 24 19:51:01 ~kewl Jul 24 19:51:02 hmm... kewl is zwampy Jul 24 19:51:03 ozamosi, it is really cool Jul 24 19:51:07 ~zwampy Jul 24 19:51:08 hmm... zwampy is gay Jul 24 19:51:12 ~gay Jul 24 19:51:12 No, YOU'RE gay. Jul 24 19:51:17 wow Jul 24 19:51:17 lol Jul 24 19:51:26 That's awesome Jul 24 19:51:43 you're been botfucked Jul 24 19:51:43 ~linux Jul 24 19:51:44 i heard linux is the cure for the world. Jul 24 19:51:44 hmm... linux is the cure for cancer, AIDS and slavery to corporations Jul 24 19:51:57 ~common cold Jul 24 19:52:02 aaahh Jul 24 19:52:14 ~cancer Jul 24 19:52:15 i guess cancer is cigarettes Jul 24 19:52:22 ~cigarettes Jul 24 19:52:23 cigarettes are good god damnit. Jul 24 19:52:28 ~god Jul 24 19:52:29 god is, like, a llama, or real unless declared integer Jul 24 19:52:33 ~llama Jul 24 19:52:34 from memory, llama is the incarnation of god on earth, or http://images2.jokaroo.net/flash/llamasong.swf Jul 24 19:52:41 ~earth Jul 24 19:52:42 extra, extra, read all about it, earth is mostly harmless, or the 3rd rock from the sun Jul 24 19:52:50 ~sun Jul 24 19:52:50 extra, extra, read all about it, sun is starting to "sneak" it's way towards the horizon... a mass of incandescent gas, a gigantic nuclear furnace Jul 24 19:52:58 ~nuclear Jul 24 19:52:59 * apt_ drops a nuclear bomb on $1's home! Jul 24 19:53:05 ~home Jul 24 19:53:06 [home] that place we never get to go to. Jul 24 19:53:13 ~place Jul 24 19:53:18 wow Jul 24 19:53:21 That took a while Jul 24 19:53:39 ok, the botting is starting to get annoying. Jul 24 19:53:51 ~apologize Jul 24 19:53:52 * apt_ apologizes to dtx Jul 24 19:54:11 flange Jul 24 19:54:30 So anyways Jul 24 19:54:45 shipping Jul 24 19:54:48 Why is it taking so long for everybody to get their hardware? Jul 24 19:55:17 because they only have 1 small child to do al the work? Jul 24 19:55:31 I see Jul 24 19:55:51 Limit of 1 slave / corporation over there? Jul 24 19:56:07 daMaestro: what a crappy comparison Jul 24 19:56:19 no, they just didn't plan ahead, so only paid for one.. Jul 24 19:56:39 hmm Jul 24 19:56:50 daMaestro: how can they even judge the telephone ergonomics and usability when it wasn't even released? Plus it's not even justified Jul 24 19:57:06 Man I'm too old to be wanting to wait til October to buy one of these things Jul 24 19:57:14 loufoque, it seems very automagic Jul 24 19:57:18 whatever the delay is, its a double-fault to not keep us informed of the shipment status Jul 24 19:57:26 yea Jul 24 19:57:29 I like the spider chart at the end of the comp. Jul 24 19:57:30 ergonomics and usability are so subjective anyway Jul 24 19:57:34 very irresponsible Jul 24 19:57:42 http://www.phonegg.com/compare/11/Nokia-E90-vs-Motorola-RAZR2-V9.html look at the Ergonomics ... the smaller device wins Jul 24 19:57:56 its been happening all year. Jul 24 19:58:26 Of course you should also keep in mind that FIC probably is not designed for selling direct to the consumer Jul 24 19:58:51 and that's an excuse because... ? Jul 24 19:59:11 Cuz that's what they are doing. Jul 24 19:59:14 ScaredyCat: It's not an excuse. It's a reality. Jul 24 19:59:20 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8414805369.html *droool* Jul 24 19:59:28 cortex a8 and g3 Jul 24 19:59:43 You can always go and buy one of the other open-source iFones on the market. :-) Jul 24 19:59:49 ozark1: no, it's used as an excuse for why FIC is taking so long Jul 24 20:00:32 ozark1: oh thats cold! :) Jul 24 20:00:35 ScaredyCat: I'm just saying, even if they don't use it as an excuse, it obvious that FIC is not designed for selling direct to the consumer. Jul 24 20:00:59 Yes it is Jul 24 20:01:01 obvious Jul 24 20:01:09 Sean and Mickey are supposed to be these died-in-the-wool open source developers. Jul 24 20:01:09 They are clearly incompetent at selling direct to the consumer. Jul 24 20:01:11 very Jul 24 20:01:12 And it sucks Jul 24 20:01:14 :-P Jul 24 20:01:19 im convinced FIC is telling them to stay quiet Jul 24 20:01:29 some kind of asian shame thing to talk about why there are delays Jul 24 20:01:32 i dont see why they didnt outsource selling Jul 24 20:01:40 lol Jul 24 20:01:47 re Jul 24 20:01:49 I don't see why this is really that hard Jul 24 20:01:58 i feel like i ordered a woot being sent by smartpost Jul 24 20:01:59 how you can ship devices not even made? Jul 24 20:02:00 don-0: Does the neo come preloaded with asian shame? Jul 24 20:02:08 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4018299974.html Jul 24 20:02:15 I've whipped up automated order processing / credit card processing / shipping calculation in a lot less time than this Jul 24 20:02:17 ozark1: groan. Jul 24 20:02:22 and this is a simple 1 product line Jul 24 20:02:26 how hard could that be Jul 24 20:02:45 it's easy if you have devices on stock :) Jul 24 20:03:00 i think they're still waiting for neos to land in US Jul 24 20:03:12 It's all just an elaborate hoax. Jul 24 20:03:14 There is no Neo. Jul 24 20:03:22 they're just playing for time now I think Jul 24 20:03:26 ynezz: shippment 1, of 500 phones, is supposedly in Fremont, CA Jul 24 20:03:35 have you seen them? :p Jul 24 20:03:36 And I ordered orange, so mine will be in the "next" shipment. Jul 24 20:03:40 ynezz: so they are in the US and they have 'cleared customs' Jul 24 20:03:45 sure Jul 24 20:03:48 Not a hoax... there's at least white boxes with labels somewhere... saw it on youtube Jul 24 20:03:52 if you believe them :) Jul 24 20:03:54 They had pcitures of boxes somewhere. Jul 24 20:03:59 They're faked! Jul 24 20:04:03 there are only 2 neos Jul 24 20:04:12 and they are made from paper Jul 24 20:04:15 I think I saw John Glenn holding one. Jul 24 20:04:16 Or in other words.. "I saw a car turn into a robot on youtube" ;) Jul 24 20:04:19 i have pictures of boxes here at home Jul 24 20:04:22 lol@ozark1 Jul 24 20:05:47 I want the frickin' Neo that I paid for. Jul 24 20:05:53 Before I pay for it, I mean. Jul 24 20:05:58 its amazing that openmoko has the best looking linux GUI.. hehe Jul 24 20:06:07 :) Jul 24 20:06:14 I want to pay for the neo that I ordered. Jul 24 20:06:24 and slowest also :) Jul 24 20:06:25 I thought the GUI was a little confuzzling. Jul 24 20:06:26 Frostshoc: you like it? i think its only 'average' Jul 24 20:06:38 It took me a few minutes to figure out how to close the apps. Jul 24 20:06:40 don-o: know any good looking themes for gnome or kde? Jul 24 20:06:54 the open moko logo in the corner acting as a Windows Start menu rubs me the wrong way. Jul 24 20:07:08 Frostshoc: not really. im happy with the ubuntu stock theme Jul 24 20:07:28 i like it also Jul 24 20:07:44 im thinking no X, a direct framebuffer implementation of an iphone-like interface will be popular. Jul 24 20:07:57 and fast, if not very expandable. Jul 24 20:08:00 it's brown Jul 24 20:08:10 tinyx ? Jul 24 20:08:49 does the neo have a IMEI? Jul 24 20:09:01 Frostshoc: its a GSM phone, so yes Jul 24 20:09:10 is it possible to change it? :) Jul 24 20:10:26 try #gsm-warez Jul 24 20:11:10 http://www.handhelds.org/minihowto/building-x.html Jul 24 20:11:16 just woundering Jul 24 20:12:08 wonder what carriers would think if you have different IMEI for each call Jul 24 20:12:37 Frostshoc: IIRC changin an IMEI is illegal (in some places) Jul 24 20:13:09 ok.. i bet there will be such programs though Jul 24 20:13:12 s/some/most/ Jul 24 20:13:24 and SIM copying programs Jul 24 20:13:28 Frostshoc: my guess is the IMEI is burned into the gsm module Jul 24 20:13:37 The idea being that the IMEI of stolen phones is blocked by all carriers. Jul 24 20:13:45 fried of mine indicated that certain motorola phones had the IMEI burned into some critical chip with a laser/ion beam. can't change it at all Jul 24 20:14:13 test: hello Jul 24 20:14:17 :-P Jul 24 20:14:27 i think most phones can change their IMEI Jul 24 20:14:32 ~lart test Jul 24 20:14:32 * apt_ brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, test!" and lops off test's head Jul 24 20:14:32 * mokobot slaps a compatible dib on test's head Jul 24 20:14:37 More bots, dtx? Jul 24 20:14:42 pls no Jul 24 20:14:45 na Jul 24 20:14:55 it's 22 o' Jul 24 20:14:57 at least not that I know of Jul 24 20:15:08 childs have to go to bed Jul 24 20:15:17 ynezz you live in Eastern Europe? Jul 24 20:15:33 no, Jamaica Jul 24 20:15:41 only 13:11 in ca... Jul 24 20:15:49 15:30 s ups cutoff Jul 24 20:15:54 Only 15:15 in Oklahoma Jul 24 20:15:55 Isn't it 4:15 in Jamaica? Jul 24 20:15:56 13:15 here in portland Jul 24 20:15:57 :-P Jul 24 20:16:38 shouldn't that be... Oooooooooklahoma where.. Jul 24 20:16:50 * ScaredyCat stops singing Jul 24 20:17:13 ... the shotgun fires straight up singer's asshole!! Jul 24 20:17:18 yes Jul 24 20:17:20 That place Jul 24 20:17:27 ;-) Jul 24 20:17:38 dtx: stuck in OK, eh? Jul 24 20:17:57 not Ok in OK Jul 24 20:18:15 Yes Jul 24 20:18:17 I'm glad I can keep this window open at work. Jul 24 20:18:19 * juri_ is stuck in AR. still wouldn't trade you. :) Jul 24 20:18:26 Don't blame ya Jul 24 20:18:43 OK is like the slums of the U.S. Jul 24 20:18:47 IMO Jul 24 20:18:51 ! Jul 24 20:18:59 Not violence wise Jul 24 20:19:02 But income wise at least Jul 24 20:19:10 AL Jul 24 20:19:20 * ScaredyCat gets banjo Jul 24 20:19:54 am I only one who receives duplicate posts on mailing lists? Jul 24 20:19:57 anyone else hate opensuse? Jul 24 20:20:03 ynezz: yes. Jul 24 20:20:07 Wow, a bird just slammed into my office window. Thats worth putting in my blog. Jul 24 20:20:07 ynezz: :) Jul 24 20:20:11 BoringOK.com Jul 24 20:20:15 sometimes ynezz Jul 24 20:20:25 jfreels: no Jul 24 20:20:29 :S Jul 24 20:20:46 /nick bricked Jul 24 20:20:50 * ynezz hides Jul 24 20:21:37 hello Jul 24 20:21:37 ~ reverse Am I the only one who keeps getting duplicate messages in IRC? esrever~ Jul 24 20:21:38 ~reverse ?CRI ni segassem etacilpud gnitteg speek ohw eno ylno eht I mA Jul 24 20:21:39 ~reverse ?CRI ni segassem etacilpud gnitteg speek ohw eno ylno eht I mA Jul 24 20:21:39 dtx: I think you need to just shoot yourself now... Jul 24 20:21:40 Am I the only one who keeps getting duplicate messages in IRC? Jul 24 20:22:01 that would be the silly bots obeying commands Jul 24 20:22:17 eh Jul 24 20:22:19 Umm, is this where I would get some help with the MokoMakefile? Jul 24 20:22:27 sure Jul 24 20:22:35 mokobot ignores apt apt doesn;t ignore mokobot Jul 24 20:22:36 ~MokoMakefile Jul 24 20:22:37 i heard mokomakefile is an automted method for downloading, updated, and compiling the latest openmoko code. Jul 24 20:22:51 That's not very helpful Jul 24 20:23:11 tyler_: or you could just watch people play with their bots. :-) Jul 24 20:23:14 it is, however, it seems to have issues trying to use git, in trying to download from "git pull git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git/ " Jul 24 20:23:29 ~teardrop Jul 24 20:23:46 bah.. dosnt work.. hehe Jul 24 20:23:51 ok, the bot is annoying me. ;) Jul 24 20:23:52 Do you have git, monotone, svn, bitbake installed? Jul 24 20:24:09 And a build environment? Jul 24 20:24:19 Yeah, it's apt fault if mokobot sets it into a infinite loop. Jul 24 20:24:29 I do. I followed all of the instructions, it just says that "fatal: corrupted pack file .git/objects/pack/pack-a146bcbc18f4826d6bf2a7f63be5dd77bbb5b2f5.pack Jul 24 20:24:29 " Jul 24 20:24:39 ewanm89: I think that would be impossible without another bot Jul 24 20:25:12 dtx: By rights it should be. Jul 24 20:25:12 'df'? Jul 24 20:25:25 tyler_: check your git version Jul 24 20:25:49 You have plenty of disk space? Jul 24 20:26:29 "git version 1.4.1" Jul 24 20:26:40 let me check on the disk space issue... Jul 24 20:27:07 update your git Jul 24 20:27:11 too old Jul 24 20:27:13 are there nightly qemu images? Jul 24 20:27:26 ah, thanks scaredycat. And I have plenty of disk space Jul 24 20:27:27 is there any way of getting the status of the order? Jul 24 20:27:33 git version 1.5.2.2 Jul 24 20:27:45 so 1.5 or > Jul 24 20:28:25 and infinite loops can happen with only one bot, if you don't code it to ignore its own output. Jul 24 20:31:19 Right Jul 24 20:31:31 But bots usually ignore their own output just because of that Jul 24 20:32:02 how comes that some IDE`s dont use real tabstops? Jul 24 20:32:03 Also infinite loops without a looping construct requires some form of variable expansion or recursive decompression/decoding Jul 24 20:32:33 Because real tab stops are usually impossible to tell from sequences of real spaces. Jul 24 20:32:35 or the ability to kill users like dtx Jul 24 20:32:38 :) Jul 24 20:33:03 I see how it is ScaredyCat Jul 24 20:33:10 :-P Jul 24 20:33:28 are u sure @ dtx? Jul 24 20:35:04 it depends on editor how big the tabstop is ! but some ides use a sequence or spaces Jul 24 20:35:21 ynezz: yes, getting dupes Jul 24 20:35:48 arg, now bb throws an error when using git Jul 24 20:36:43 ? Jul 24 20:37:10 tyler_: are you behind a firewall or proxy? Jul 24 20:37:11 a tab is not a sequence of spaces ! Jul 24 20:37:28 a tab is not a sequence of spaces, but it looks that way Jul 24 20:37:34 ah, now I see the issue. git was replaced with the GNU Interactive tools... Jul 24 20:38:15 if you tell youre editor that his tabstopwidth = 0 it doesnt look like a sequence of spaces ;) Jul 24 20:38:24 Sign #4 of the apacolypse: we run out of TLAs. Jul 24 20:38:56 whats #1? Jul 24 20:39:13 KFC goes Trans Fat Free. Jul 24 20:39:14 4 horsemen stop outside your house Jul 24 20:39:15 Tabstops being replaced by spaces. Jul 24 20:39:37 tyler_: I'm assuming you are using Ubuntu Jul 24 20:39:38 ozark1 wins. :) Jul 24 20:39:39 all at the same time Jul 24 20:39:53 haha Jul 24 20:40:20 ozarkl: yes. some cheap editors do that Jul 24 20:40:26 well, mepis technically. I've just downloaded the .deb package for git-core Jul 24 20:40:41 and now, need to find and install the dependencies, since mepis sucks with repos *sighs* Jul 24 20:40:54 Isn't it just based on Ubuntu? Jul 24 20:41:46 kind of, with some debian repos thrown in, and their own. Jul 24 20:45:45 Any guidelines on how data should be stored? Jul 24 20:46:55 * * OM Bug 657 has been created by rodolphe.ortalo(AT)free.fr Jul 24 20:46:56 * * finger wheel does not show at the right position Jul 24 20:46:57 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=657 Jul 24 20:50:23 YES! It works. Thanks for the help guys! Jul 24 20:51:06 ~ubuntu Jul 24 20:51:07 [ubuntu] for noobs Jul 24 20:51:15 ~mepis Jul 24 20:51:42 ~cantconfiguredebian Jul 24 20:51:47 hm Jul 24 20:52:28 ~woglinde Jul 24 20:52:35 ~debian Jul 24 20:52:36 from memory, debian is a free software GNU/Linux distribution. Debian 3.1 contains KDE 3.3.2 Jul 24 20:52:41 ubuntu = african word for "I cant install debian" Jul 24 20:52:52 marex configure Jul 24 20:52:55 Marex-notebook: hey now Jul 24 20:52:59 no cheap shots Jul 24 20:53:07 * ScaredyCat akes a bow Jul 24 20:53:08 O:-) Jul 24 20:54:16 ~Debian is American word for envious of African child's (Ubuntu) large penis size and ease of use. Jul 24 20:54:16 dtx: okay Jul 24 20:54:17 * apt_ tells is American word for envious of African child's (Ubuntu) large penis size and ease of use. to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Jul 24 20:54:40 ... Jul 24 20:54:51 ~Debian Jul 24 20:54:52 debian is, like, American word for envious of African child's (Ubuntu) large penis size and ease of use. Jul 24 20:54:52 from memory, debian is a free software GNU/Linux distribution. Debian 3.1 contains KDE 3.3.2 Jul 24 20:55:08 ~bored Jul 24 20:55:09 La ... lalalala ... beer! Jul 24 20:55:11 ~dtx Jul 24 20:55:11 A seriously annoying gimp. Jul 24 20:55:12 could you stop playing with poor bots? Jul 24 20:55:41 see you guys later, and be nice to the poor bots Jul 24 20:55:56 ~scaredycat Jul 24 20:55:56 Can I has a openmoko? Jul 24 20:56:02 I see Jul 24 20:56:05 No, Jul 24 20:56:16 ~eggdrop? Jul 24 20:56:17 hmm... eggdrop is The Leading Brand of irc bot. It's scripted with TCL, current in 2.0.0 (though 1.3.28 is the version of choice), and can be found at ftp://raistlin.toledolink.com/pub/eggdrop or sucks compared to a real bot such as myself or 1.3.28 is pretty stable, but nifty Jul 24 20:57:22 ~asshole Jul 24 20:57:22 from memory, asshole is synonymous with ScaredyCat. Jul 24 20:57:22 I don't have one of those, i'm a bot. Jul 24 20:57:29 haha Jul 24 20:57:51 ~forget dtx he's a waste of space Jul 24 20:57:51 ScaredyCat: i didn't have anything called 'dtx he's a waste of space' to forget Jul 24 20:57:52 i didn't have anything called 'dtx he's a waste of space' to forget, ScaredyCat Jul 24 20:58:13 sqw Jul 24 20:58:33 ~peace Jul 24 20:58:37 nothin. Jul 24 20:59:25 im a bot too Jul 24 20:59:49 dtx is the only human here Jul 24 20:59:53 ~seen dando Jul 24 20:59:54 dando is currently on #openmoko (11h 12m 59s). Has said a total of 50 messages. Is idling for 4s, last said: 'dtx is the only human here'. Jul 24 20:59:58 dando is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 9 messages. Is idling for 9s, last said: 'dtx is the only human here'. Jul 24 21:00:29 ;) Jul 24 21:00:34 =) Jul 24 21:00:40 Anyone know of any shipping new? Jul 24 21:00:41 eggdrop is oldschool! :) Jul 24 21:00:57 Um, apt_ is a little wrong. Jul 24 21:01:05 calamous_: nothing, still Jul 24 21:01:21 ~seen hrw Jul 24 21:01:22 hrw was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 6h 41m 40s ago, saying: 'CoreDump|home: you are on angstrom-devel?'. Jul 24 21:01:23 hrw was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 4h 17m 21s ago, saying: 'bye'. Jul 24 21:01:47 ScaredyCat: If i knew it would take this long i would not have paid for next day shipping Jul 24 21:01:53 dtx: reverse what the hell Jul 24 21:01:54 lleh eht tahw Jul 24 21:01:58 ScaredyCat: Whats the difference between 16 and 18 days. lol Jul 24 21:02:02 yeah I know the feeling calamous_ Jul 24 21:02:03 XD Jul 24 21:02:08 ^^ lol Jul 24 21:02:24 anyone here played ChaosMUD? Jul 24 21:02:28 ~status of orders Jul 24 21:03:00 no only german avalon mud Jul 24 21:03:11 Frostshoc: _long_long_long_ time ago. And only for minutes. Jul 24 21:03:27 * SpeedEvil lost several years to MUDs. Jul 24 21:03:33 hehe Jul 24 21:03:50 SpeedEvil: hehe Jul 24 21:04:14 SpeedEvil: would be nostalgic to get hold of a copy of it though.. trying to get in contact with Josef Hall Jul 24 21:04:48 I played shadows of isildar for a bit. Jul 24 21:05:13 * SpeedEvil was on Dark and Shattered Lands. Jul 24 21:05:51 i have to port DikuMUD/CircleMUD to openmoko.. how cool wouldnt that be? :) Jul 24 21:06:09 a mud server on a gprs line.. hehe Jul 24 21:06:56 Frostshoc: please do, I used to play MUD all the time Jul 24 21:07:13 The GPRS LAG HITS! Jul 24 21:07:26 A MUD just uses telnet, so. Jul 24 21:07:26 hihi Jul 24 21:07:43 tintin++ would get higher priority Jul 24 21:07:57 ~MUD Jul 24 21:07:59 methinks mud is MultiUser Dungeon Jul 24 21:08:03 hm I wonder how the igh the correlation mud player ~ opensource developer is Jul 24 21:08:09 args Jul 24 21:09:17 perhaps i should do something useful for openmoko.. port something or make something new Jul 24 21:09:29 xeyes! Jul 24 21:09:38 Look at the finger! Jul 24 21:09:43 HAHA Jul 24 21:09:54 xeyes, lol Jul 24 21:10:07 SpeedEvil: If my neo doesn't come with xeyes, I'm returning it. Jul 24 21:10:13 I thought it was in the base install! Jul 24 21:10:22 nethack? Jul 24 21:10:24 It probably is. Jul 24 21:10:30 counter Jul 24 21:10:30 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in a day 19:24:42 (1.809±1.8 days) (1775;251) Jul 24 21:10:33 nethack is trivial - with an external keyb Jul 24 21:10:36 nethack is no fun without keyboard Jul 24 21:10:42 With the touchscreen - pain. Jul 24 21:10:53 SpeedEvil: yes :) Jul 24 21:11:19 Playing it seriously _requires_ exact movement Jul 24 21:11:24 at least at times. Jul 24 21:11:28 true Jul 24 21:11:35 ncurses then? Jul 24 21:11:38 cheese Jul 24 21:14:54 We need to port FlightGear to this puppy Jul 24 21:15:27 With the Atlas Map/GPS extension, you could fly around where you are and see where stuff is Jul 24 21:15:29 lol Jul 24 21:15:37 good times Jul 24 21:17:29 ~mud Jul 24 21:17:29 MUD players are said to be ~opensource developers Jul 24 21:17:30 i guess mud is MultiUser Dungeon Jul 24 21:17:43 Much better. Jul 24 21:17:46 ~opensource developers Jul 24 21:18:00 ~mud Jul 24 21:18:00 MUD players are said to be ~opensource developers Jul 24 21:18:00 extra, extra, read all about it, mud is MultiUser Dungeon Jul 24 21:18:12 Just making sure ole' mokobot ain't ignoring Jul 24 21:18:21 hihi Jul 24 21:18:32 I think they *need* to ignore you dtx Jul 24 21:19:01 ~opensource developers Jul 24 21:19:01 ~MUD players Jul 24 21:19:16 Probably, but then when I get on here and start asking all those already mentioned questions I wouldn't be able to just ask a bot Jul 24 21:19:27 And there would be much annoyance Jul 24 21:19:48 naaa, we' just get an op to gline you Jul 24 21:20:27 dtx: Do you want me to make mokobot ignore you? Jul 24 21:20:28 But I'm a helpful productive member of this community Jul 24 21:20:37 Nah Jul 24 21:20:49 dtx: Don't tempt me then. Jul 24 21:21:26 Personally, I don't really see why anybody really cares much about the whole "messing with the bots" thing. Its not like many people here even have a Neo yet, and when people ask questions I try to answer also. Jul 24 21:21:43 Once is arguably funny. Jul 24 21:21:48 Twice - ok. Jul 24 21:21:53 More than that gets boring. Jul 24 21:22:00 IMO Jul 24 21:22:36 repeatedly requires a spanking with a shovel Jul 24 21:23:10 dtx: Just remember most of us have done it enough before, and I really should make mokobot ignore you for that nasty rot13 attack with apt. Jul 24 21:23:11 Hey I'll stop messing with 'em. That's fine, just didn't seem like much was going on anyways. Jul 24 21:23:39 yeah... you big wuss Jul 24 21:23:43 dtx: Add factoids use them for what they exist for. Jul 24 21:24:07 I've done a lot of those ;-) Jul 24 21:24:09 Add the odd humerous one to lighten the mood. Jul 24 21:24:19 mokobot: stats Jul 24 21:24:19 Since Mon Jul 23 17:38:21 2007, there have been 11 modifications, 17 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 6 commands. I have been awake for 1d 3h 46m 3s this session, and currently reference 29 factoids. I'm using about 49992 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 12.05/0.94 child 0.03/0.02 Jul 24 21:24:39 Is that by you? Jul 24 21:24:42 mokobot: factstats Jul 24 21:25:03 that's can't be accurate Jul 24 21:25:12 s/'s// Jul 24 21:25:12 ScaredyCat meant: that can't be accurate Jul 24 21:25:15 What can't be? Jul 24 21:25:22 17 questions Jul 24 21:25:33 Since Monday Jul 24 21:25:34 dtx asked about 500 million Jul 24 21:26:14 aeh 50 mb of RAM? Jul 24 21:26:16 The rest is, not that sentence though. Jul 24 21:26:21 mokobot you suckz Jul 24 21:26:30 woglinde: Yeah, but I got a gig. Jul 24 21:26:40 apt_: stats Jul 24 21:26:57 mokobot: factstats new Jul 24 21:26:59 new factoids in the last 24hours (10): opensource developers ;; mud ;; asshole ;; dtx ;; debian ;; linux ;; fact ;; family guy ;; can i has a tracking number ;; mokobot. Jul 24 21:27:00 dtx: also consider that many people want to read all of the scrollback. Jul 24 21:27:08 cheese Jul 24 21:27:13 s/cheese// Jul 24 21:27:14 ScaredyCat meant: Jul 24 21:27:35 !asshole Jul 24 21:27:36 the botplay is annoying. ;) Jul 24 21:27:42 ~asshole Jul 24 21:27:42 hmm... asshole is synonymous with ScaredyCat. Jul 24 21:27:43 I don't have one of those, i'm a bot. Jul 24 21:27:49 heh Jul 24 21:28:02 ~ to short address it. Jul 24 21:28:26 hehe Jul 24 21:28:33 ScaredyCat: I think it only reports those it has a match for in the stats. Jul 24 21:28:46 ~dtx Jul 24 21:28:46 A seriously annoying gimp. Jul 24 21:28:46 ~dtx Jul 24 21:28:50 oh ok Jul 24 21:29:01 haha Jul 24 21:29:16 am i ever going to get a neo Jul 24 21:29:22 no Jul 24 21:29:27 never. Jul 24 21:29:30 lol Jul 24 21:29:32 :( you made me cry Jul 24 21:29:32 Well, I did just manipulate a couple images a while ago, so I suppose its factually accurate Jul 24 21:29:35 am I ever going to order a neo? Jul 24 21:29:51 ha ha Jul 24 21:30:05 ~can i has a tracking number Jul 24 21:30:05 No. Jul 24 21:30:06 ewanm89_laptop: you need to wait for my crystal ball to boot. Jul 24 21:30:19 Anyone have a DFU image for the crystal ball - it's crashed. Jul 24 21:30:29 SpeedEvil: I have to go now though. Jul 24 21:30:39 SpeedEvil: lol Jul 24 21:31:06 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. <--- damn me and my nonconformist ways Jul 24 21:31:25 I'm in the same orange boat. Jul 24 21:31:26 * ewon ponders registering www.icanhasopenmoko.com Jul 24 21:31:31 * SpeedEvil is possibly also. Jul 24 21:31:35 trust me, it'll be worth a fortune in 10 years... Jul 24 21:31:39 super rare Jul 24 21:31:42 lol Jul 24 21:32:02 ScaredyCat: Isn't it worth a fortune now? Jul 24 21:32:08 no Jul 24 21:32:12 $300 is hardly a fortune Jul 24 21:32:15 it hasn't been built yet Jul 24 21:32:21 Ah Jul 24 21:35:15 $300 is becoming less and less a fortune the more the USD declines in value Jul 24 21:35:33 hey on the bright side by the time they finally charge my card, the dollar will be weaker Jul 24 21:35:44 You bet Jul 24 21:35:46 they'll get less yen or whatever for it Jul 24 21:35:57 Sand Dollars Jul 24 21:36:38 And just so everybody knows I apologize for unleashing bot hell, I won't do it again Jul 24 21:37:10 hahahaha Jul 24 21:37:31 ~bot hell Jul 24 21:37:31 rumour has it, bot hell is definitely not in this channel. Jul 24 21:37:36 see Jul 24 21:37:38 * ewon is moving to the US, and is not looking forward to having pretend money when he goes back to Ireland for christmas Jul 24 21:38:14 OTOH - cheap confetti. Jul 24 21:38:27 ewon: get a Swiss Bank account Jul 24 21:38:30 and keep your money there Jul 24 21:38:53 swiss banks dont use swift? Jul 24 21:39:02 ewon: take the money from selling your car and leave it in an account here? Jul 24 21:39:20 cjb_ie: not a bad idea Jul 24 21:39:26 $2.06 == 1gbp today Jul 24 21:39:49 ScaredyCat: you forgot to take into account rip-off britain in that calculation... Jul 24 21:40:16 * ewon looks at footage of flood-wrecked houses on tv, wonders how hard it is to waterproof the walls / doors of a house Jul 24 21:40:16 no I didn't... Jul 24 21:40:19 ewon: What part of the US are you moving to? Jul 24 21:40:21 ScaredyCat: price of US goods = $300 (say), equivalent price calculated by UK branch of US firm, £300 Jul 24 21:40:22 or you could invest your money into collectibles while in America and sell them off when you leave Jul 24 21:40:23 I work in the UK, live in .nl Jul 24 21:40:26 ozark1: santa monica, CA Jul 24 21:41:10 Stephmw: yes, often $1=£1 Jul 24 21:41:50 When did $1 = £1 ? Jul 24 21:41:56 ewon: nice. You could have done worse. :-) Jul 24 21:41:57 usually Jul 24 21:42:26 when you buy stuff in the uk from a uk distributor of something from the usa Jul 24 21:42:52 Now I've only been to England twice in 2001 and 2005 but both times the pound was considerably more than the $ Jul 24 21:43:04 it is.. in shops Jul 24 21:43:17 pound is more than euro and euro is more than dollar Jul 24 21:43:22 yeah Jul 24 21:43:28 but the neo would generally be sold for 300 quid Jul 24 21:43:30 Euro started off equal to the dollar Jul 24 21:47:40 night guys Jul 24 21:47:58 night Jul 24 21:53:01 <_llll_> it's about $2 for £1 atm, no idea about euros Jul 24 21:53:14 "We start to ship US domestic orders today" - some dude on the community list. Jul 24 21:53:28 Will @ openmoko :) Jul 24 21:53:29 whoho Jul 24 21:54:13 Woohoo, indeed. Jul 24 21:54:30 Unless you ordered an orange one. :-( Jul 24 21:55:13 noone in their right mind would order the creamsicle neo :) Jul 24 21:55:41 its the photo where its next to the OLPC Jul 24 21:55:45 that makes it look cheesy Jul 24 21:56:16 US domestic? I'll sue them for discrimination! :) Jul 24 21:56:26 You just can't handle my level of non-comformity. Jul 24 21:56:33 wtf Jul 24 21:56:42 Hallelujah! Jul 24 21:56:44 ozark1: Ha Jul 24 21:57:13 white/orange glory: http://flickr.com/photos/phauly/399692232/ Jul 24 21:57:31 i see the OLPC chiclet-keys and cringe Jul 24 21:58:13 it's perfect :D Jul 24 21:58:16 although if someone had a white-orange model in-hand for sale, id buy it. Jul 24 21:58:56 the openmoko forum thread is endless! someone make it stop! Jul 24 21:59:09 or move it to a forum :) Jul 24 21:59:16 someone stick phpBB somewhere and call it a day, christ Jul 24 21:59:24 ewon: its here. openmokoforum.org Jul 24 21:59:44 why would you only ship 'domestic' ? it's frigging UPS - it's the same fecking truck Jul 24 21:59:51 * SpeedEvil would prefer an nntp forum. Jul 24 21:59:59 ScaredyCat: international orders are "tomorrow" Jul 24 22:00:06 why would you only ship 'domestic' ? it's frigging UPS - it's the same fecking truck Jul 24 22:00:32 The onorous form-filling? Jul 24 22:00:43 (two line customs forms) Jul 24 22:02:18 should I really have been billed when I asked for an orange one and they're apparently still in china? Jul 24 22:02:40 Well - who knows. Jul 24 22:02:45 anyone seen any progress on hacking the UTStarcom dv007 Jul 24 22:03:11 yeah, i think the way this has been handled is going to be detrimental to the project Jul 24 22:04:20 daMaestro: this hasn't been handled as well as it could have been Jul 24 22:04:31 Zaireeka_: for what i understood, yes Jul 24 22:04:56 Zaireeka_: the e-mail could be interpreted in two ways Jul 24 22:07:23 wasn't there an fic 1973 on ebay? Jul 24 22:08:00 ewon: there is a whole website for selling neo's, with plenty of genuine end-user reviews of the phone :) Jul 24 22:08:45 ewon: yep, it got taken off a few days before it was supposed to end due to something like "Not enough serious bids" Jul 24 22:10:03 gcb77: hah, nice Jul 24 22:10:28 and another allegedly giving them away "free" in return for completing surveys Jul 24 22:10:35 I suspect there will a number of GTA01s on ebay soon enough, when Joe Public realises the device is still the domain of the hacker Jul 24 22:10:41 again with user reviews saying it's so much better than an iphone Jul 24 22:11:08 ewon: even with the YES_I_DO thing? Jul 24 22:11:46 cjb_ie: people will believe what they want to believe Jul 24 22:21:04 that dv007 is an attractive price, but I'd need to find some kind of toolchain for the thing first Jul 24 22:22:01 so regarding wifi on the moko, my plan is just to buy a gumstix with bt and wifi and bridge 'em...no problem carrying around one more tiny device. Sound fair? Jul 24 22:22:17 alternatively, I've already got a n770, and it's got wifi and bluetooth Jul 24 22:22:45 can't see why you couldn't use the n770 as a bridge Jul 24 22:22:56 mjr: yeah, I forgot I had it :) Jul 24 22:23:06 plus it's a tad bigger Jul 24 22:23:14 anyway, thanks for validating the idea :) Jul 24 22:23:49 in that case, I suppose I'll be running apps on the 770 as well and piping the display to the neo :) Jul 24 22:27:06 jadams: IIRC gumstick wifi isn't here yet. Jul 24 22:27:15 SpeedEvil: oh its here Jul 24 22:27:23 jadams: Oh. Jul 24 22:27:29 SpeedEvil: with a daughterboard Jul 24 22:27:50 I mean the daughterboartd for wifi hadn't launched Jul 24 22:27:54 SpeedEvil: I hadn't looked into it yet in detail, so without don-o's response I'd have not known :) Jul 24 22:28:11 anyway, 770 wins...because I already have it, AND it gets obsoleted when the phone gets here Jul 24 22:28:14 SpeedEvil: it has for the old platform, but yeah i think the verant daughterboards are not ready Jul 24 22:28:20 Oh - right. Jul 24 22:28:32 I was just looking into this for the [[Open Phone]] category Jul 24 22:28:38 or was it [[Model Phone]] Jul 24 22:28:58 gumstix+gsm_board with bluetooth to a twiddler keyboard and eye-glasses-mounted display would really rock. Jul 24 22:29:14 And be rather pricy. Jul 24 22:29:23 The [[Model Phone]] page comes up as some $600 Jul 24 22:29:52 SpeedEvil: is that the openmoko wiki? Jul 24 22:30:29 If the pole is above the guys, then you cam http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Modular_phone Jul 24 22:30:30 oops Jul 24 22:31:42 one-hand chorded keyboard over bluetooth http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/frogpad_ifrog_bluetooth_keyboard_review Jul 24 22:31:58 the display over bluetooth is hard, i guess. Jul 24 22:32:39 SpeedEvil: interesting Jul 24 22:32:54 SpeedEvil: and a nice response to people curious about costs Jul 24 22:33:47 It might be lots cheaper at 1K, but... Jul 24 22:33:55 we're all "want neo now" but imagine waiting for a human limb to become cheap and available. http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/24/iwalk-to-release-powerfoot-one-prosthetic-foot/ Jul 24 22:34:15 thats tech that 'disappears' Jul 24 22:34:48 * SpeedEvil has idly wondered on when breast implants, with inbuilt MP3 players will become available. Jul 24 22:35:15 The only intuitive MP3 player. Jul 24 22:35:22 SpeedEvil: using the dipples as in-ear phones? Jul 24 22:35:42 SpeedEvil: or jaw induction? Jul 24 22:36:47 speed, would you get them Jul 24 22:37:33 No. Jul 24 22:37:35 :) Jul 24 22:38:33 nite Jul 24 22:53:29 * mokobot mugs Jason1 for his neo and gives it to ScaredyCat Jul 24 22:53:41 Hey all! Jul 24 22:54:18 jason1, how's the mail box treating you Jul 24 22:54:43 poorly :(. BTW, Did you see Will's note today? Jul 24 22:54:51 yeah, i have an orange one so it answers my question Jul 24 22:55:04 ?? Jul 24 22:55:23 he said orange ones are coming from the next shipment Jul 24 22:55:29 We`ll start to ship US domestic orders today (7/24), international Jul 24 22:55:29 shipping please wait another day. Jul 24 22:55:31 my low order number didn't help me at all Jul 24 22:55:46 ohhh. I didnt see that yet... Im sorry. Jul 24 22:55:56 he alsosays they have enough for everybody. Jul 24 22:56:32 by the time thet get around to actually shipping them, they will have had the opporunity to manufacture thousands :) Jul 24 22:56:36 Moko for all!!!! Jul 24 22:57:21 I know those guys are fooling around in the warehouse making moko-angels in all the boxes. Jul 24 22:58:26 galexande: Would have been nice if they would have noted the delay in the shopping cart. Jul 24 22:59:04 yeah, knowing beats not knowing Jul 24 22:59:22 but at least my neo will clash with everything, i'm excited Jul 24 22:59:56 unless you wear bright orange sneakers :) Jul 24 23:03:50 galexande: Where did Will talk about the Wh/Orange ship delay? Jul 24 23:04:45 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. Jul 24 23:05:31 Jason1, /topic Jul 24 23:07:14 pft, there goes a mail. Now let's hope we get somewhere... Jul 24 23:35:37 !counter Jul 24 23:35:38 counter Jul 24 23:35:38 (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in a day 18:12:08 (1.758±1.8 days) (1776;251) Jul 24 23:42:19 Question: has anyone else run into the problem that the OpenMoko build seems to have broken? openmoko-rssreader package is failing because the Configure step can't find package WebKitGdk??? Jul 24 23:45:36 jseghers: Yes, that's known Jul 24 23:45:58 How can I work around it? It's completely blocking me? Jul 24 23:47:15 No idea how to do it the "proper" way as of now - I'd just try touch-ing the state files (do_compile & Co) and see where I end up Jul 24 23:47:37 :) I'll try that... thanks Jul 24 23:47:40 jseghers: edit the task recipe and simply remove the broken package from it? Jul 24 23:48:17 cesarb: any idea where it's included? Jul 24 23:49:48 jseghers: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb has it Jul 24 23:49:48 jseghers: oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb Jul 24 23:50:03 cesarb: Good timing ;) Jul 24 23:50:09 Thank you, both of you :) Jul 24 23:51:05 You're welcome Jul 25 00:14:55 Hello all, Jul 25 00:24:01 next try ;-) I have a problem with building the 'openmoko-devel-image'. bitbake stops while compiling 'mtd-utils-native-1.0.0+git' because of problems with applying the necessary patches. Anybody out there who knows how to solve this issue?NOTE: build 200707250131: started Jul 25 00:24:01 OE Build Configuration: Jul 25 00:24:01 BB_VERSION = "1.6.9" Jul 25 00:24:01 OE_REVISION = "" Jul 25 00:24:01 TARGET_ARCH = "arm" Jul 25 00:38:20 Risto: are you using mokomakefile? Jul 25 00:39:35 ferric: yep, but currently it is more trying then using ;) Jul 25 00:47:23 Risto: diagnosing will be easier if you pastebin the relevant error messages Jul 25 00:47:47 Risto: what platform? Jul 25 00:51:54 ooo forums, now all of the lame nerds can scurry off and leave the list alone Jul 25 00:52:42 ferric: http://pastebin.com/m297efa3b Jul 25 00:56:52 wow, where have I been! Jul 25 00:57:31 the moon Jul 25 00:57:42 so how does this work Jul 25 00:57:58 build your own cell phone OS and connect the to wireless network of your choice? Jul 25 00:57:58 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Jul 25 01:01:30 What's news here? Jul 25 01:03:03 ~news Jul 25 01:03:19 http://bash.org/?785529 Jul 25 01:03:23 oops Jul 25 01:03:51 heh Jul 25 01:03:59 ~news Jul 25 01:04:05 That doesn't work for me either. Jul 25 01:04:11 P1_Owners won't save Jul 25 01:04:14 ~p1 Jul 25 01:04:15 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners Jul 25 01:09:15 ~ship is test Jul 25 01:09:15 SpeedEvil: okay Jul 25 01:09:16 okay, SpeedEvil Jul 25 01:09:39 ~ship is Shipping today for domestic US orders, tomorrow for International. Jul 25 01:09:39 ...but ship is already something else... Jul 25 01:09:40 ...but ship is already something else... Jul 25 01:10:59 yay Jul 25 01:12:42 ~ship Jul 25 01:12:42 hmm... ship is test Jul 25 01:12:43 it has been said that ship is test Jul 25 01:13:47 Grrr... I might be in the first batch, but won't know until later Jul 25 01:14:32 ~help Jul 25 01:26:14 On the list people are talking about an ARE_YOU_SURE email? is that the same as the YES_I_DO? Jul 25 01:27:18 SpeedEvil: If its shipping today the 24, I should get it on the 25th right (im in the US)? Jul 25 01:27:26 If I ordered next day Jul 25 01:27:30 so that is tomorrow? Jul 25 01:28:06 I don't think any shipped today, so tomorrow is the soonest Jul 25 01:28:18 Overnight would be Thursday. Jul 25 01:29:05 Noo! I'm going away for 10 days on Thu and I was hoping to take my neo with me Jul 25 01:29:58 calamous_: look at the URL Jul 25 01:30:15 We`ll start to ship US domestic orders today (7/24), international Jul 25 01:30:48 Yay! Jul 25 01:32:46 Updated title. Cool Jul 25 01:34:04 anyone here can tell me what is going on with my order? Jul 25 01:39:17 I'm looking for some help fixing a MokoMakefile build that's dying at mtd-utils-native - any geniuses out there? Jul 25 01:43:16 davel_: same problem like this http://pastebin.com/m297efa3b Jul 25 01:43:29 ? Jul 25 01:44:31 Yup, that looks like it. Jul 25 01:46:20 OK, you are not alone ... :) Jul 25 01:47:36 Groovy. I'm running Fedora 7 and I haven't found any real reports of success or failure. Jul 25 01:48:26 Is this the kind of thing I should just try updating in a couple of days and it will be magically fixed? Jul 25 01:49:36 For me, it looks like the easiest way to workaround it would be to pin the revision of the git checkout of that package Jul 25 01:49:54 It seems to be tracking the master branch... Which means it can change unpredictably Jul 25 01:51:52 I'm decent with svn, but I've never used git. I also have no idea what I'm doing with OE... Any quick and dirty hints? Copy and paste command lines would be nice... :) Jul 25 01:53:37 hey guys Jul 25 01:54:18 umm, who here has any experience with the MokoMakefile? Jul 25 01:54:49 Is it, by any chance, a patch failure on mtd-utils-native? Jul 25 01:54:55 yep! Jul 25 01:55:09 You must be psychic Davel. ;) Jul 25 01:55:13 ZerothCloned: I ran it. No real experience Jul 25 01:55:14 Ok, well, you're not alone. Jul 25 01:55:38 I actually have no idea what I'm doing either - I asked the same question and got that response about 1.5 minutes ago. Jul 25 01:56:10 Hmm, well, its dropped me to a shell to fix the patch rejects manually. Does anyone know what to do at that point? Jul 25 01:56:47 It appears to be a bad commit - I'm trying to weazel a git command out of someone who knows that might fix it. Jul 25 01:57:23 that would help. if you get anything, give me a shout Davel? Jul 25 01:57:27 tenzai jannai. Jul 25 01:57:44 Loudly. Out of curiosity, what distro are you using? Jul 25 01:57:53 mepis Jul 25 01:57:59 v6.5 Jul 25 01:59:05 I'm on Fedora 7 and having the same thing on i386 and x86_64, so it's apparently widespread. Jul 25 01:59:52 well, since its patches to source code, it likely isn't affected by architecture, or OS Jul 25 02:00:00 davel_, i packaged up the qemu-neo1973 :-) Jul 25 02:00:04 davel_, if you want it Jul 25 02:00:24 davel_, it will be yumable when i get my device and have a need to package up openembedded also Jul 25 02:00:43 Gimme! Jul 25 02:00:52 the 1973? Jul 25 02:01:06 do you have a build system setup? or do you want binary? (what arch if so) Jul 25 02:02:39 My build system is currently farked - binary would be great. If the package isn't gigantic, I'll take i386 and x86_64, but I'd be happy with just the i386 too. Jul 25 02:03:32 *wonders idly just how many people are actually active here. Jul 25 02:03:42 davel_, ok Jul 25 02:08:19 davel_, lol.. sorry.. ran out of space Jul 25 02:08:22 so no one knows what happened with that commit, thats stopping mtd-utils from working? Jul 25 02:08:27 davel_, had to init some more extents Jul 25 02:08:41 anyone know what the git command is to get the previous patches? Jul 25 02:09:35 ZerothCloned, what do you mean? Jul 25 02:09:52 ZerothCloned, move back in the tree? or move back for a certain file? or? Jul 25 02:10:21 ZerothCloned, where is the tree located so i can clone it Jul 25 02:10:23 well, it appears that a commit gave some bad patches, or bad source. Basically, just move back in the tree for the mtd-utils-native patches/source code. Whichever it is thats busted. Jul 25 02:10:43 ZerothCloned, if you give me the location of the tree.. i can tell you ;-) Jul 25 02:11:00 how do I find that out? Jul 25 02:11:06 Whosoever is interested. A short look on code and patch - and it doesn't match :-( http://pastebin.com/m4e06d1a4 Jul 25 02:11:18 ZerothCloned, how did you clone the tree? Jul 25 02:11:35 * daMaestro loves git :-D Jul 25 02:11:41 I never have, just ran MokoMakefile. Jul 25 02:11:49 ok.. so the clone is in mokomakefile Jul 25 02:11:50 so hold on Jul 25 02:11:59 however, at the point where the patches are to be applied to mtd-utils, half of them fail. Jul 25 02:13:10 thanks Risto! That helps a lot. Jul 25 02:13:10 What is going on with my order, anyone here can tell me if there is any way i can check my order status Jul 25 02:13:12 davel_, http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/x86_64/qemu-neo1973-2386.svn-1.fc7.x86_64.rpm http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/x86_64/qemu-neo1973-2386.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/i386/qemu-neo1973-2386.svn-1.fc7.i386.rpm Jul 25 02:13:18 jackey, there is not Jul 25 02:13:46 davel_, basically.. install it.. and then: mkdir ~/something && cd ~/something && openmoko-download && openmoko-flash Jul 25 02:13:59 daMaestro, it was unfair that people made order late than me got phones, but i did not/ Jul 25 02:14:09 davel_, the openmoko-* scripts needs some work (well my patches do) because they currently like to litter `pwd` Jul 25 02:14:19 jackey, what is your issue? Jul 25 02:14:25 jackey, did you order an orange one or something? Jul 25 02:14:45 i'm #1964 and i don't have my shipping information.... who go their phone? Jul 25 02:14:49 no one that I know of Jul 25 02:14:54 daMaestro, I said YES_I_DO three times Jul 25 02:15:06 jackey, have you been billed? Jul 25 02:15:15 two times got email rejected, last time no return email, which means it should be ok Jul 25 02:15:15 Nobody has a phone or shipping information Jul 25 02:15:27 daMaestro, no Jul 25 02:15:51 daMaestro, i have not been billed yet. I placed my order on July 9th Jul 25 02:16:26 jackey, we are all not as happy as we could be with how things are going Jul 25 02:16:33 jackey, but they *are* going Jul 25 02:17:03 daMaestro, As I said, at least tell me if there is an issue with my order. Jul 25 02:17:17 jackey, i don't know Jul 25 02:17:24 i even do not know if my order was accepted or not. Jul 25 02:17:57 ZerothCloned, ok.. reading the make file so i can find the tree... what file needs to be reverted? Jul 25 02:18:01 daMaestro, i am hopeless here now Jul 25 02:18:03 Jackey, just ease off, daMaestro has been helping us a lot. Jul 25 02:18:03 ZerothCloned, or do you want to revert the whole tree? Jul 25 02:18:30 umm, just the tree for mtd-utils-native and/or its patches. I think there was a bad commit somewhere. Jul 25 02:19:14 ZerothCloned, yes He helps lots. But i am so disappointed. Jul 25 02:19:31 really thanks for you guys Jul 25 02:19:53 Hey, I can understand man, its an awesome phone. Its certainly worth waiting for. Jul 25 02:20:04 there is nothing we can do about it. Jul 25 02:20:19 daMaestro, would it help if pastebinned the text of the patches failing? Jul 25 02:20:22 ZerothCloned: if we hadn't to wait, it would be an even more awesome phone Jul 25 02:20:38 It's not only a development phone, it's a development order and shipping system too... It's the price of being bleeding edge. Jul 25 02:20:44 ZerothCloned, i really worried about the future of OpenMoko Jul 25 02:21:01 ZerothCloned, no, not really Jul 25 02:22:20 grr... ZerothCloned grep git http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile returns nothing Jul 25 02:22:21 ZerothCloned, i am worried about if openmoko can do a mass production right now. Jul 25 02:22:32 jackey, no.. they can't Jul 25 02:22:40 and this is not the mass market device either Jul 25 02:23:04 ZerothCloned, i only see svn stuff Jul 25 02:23:05 maybe this might help? http://pastebin.com/m11769b97 Jul 25 02:24:20 correction: http://pastebin.com/m9c59180 Jul 25 02:24:22 daMaestro, i am sucking on this issue now, we have a potential customer for a mass production. Jul 25 02:24:33 does that look like what you see davel? Jul 25 02:25:24 ZerothCloned, yes, that's it. Jul 25 02:25:38 For all having problems with mtd, you could try adding ;tag=a6fa706fe9e7696b4b2045edf9698c3bac07e3e3 to the git URL in the problematic recipe... If it works, it should give you an older revision, which should work Jul 25 02:25:42 Howdy everyone... do we have the gps system in the works now? For example, how are we going to handle the maps system and other what not? Are we using something as advanced as persay... gpsdrive? Jul 25 02:26:09 where do we add that cesarb? Jul 25 02:26:55 daMaestro, anyway. really thx for your help. I am going to give last try and ask help from Sean. Then, i will switch to some other close platforms. Jul 25 02:27:05 ZerothCloned: I think in openembedded/packages/mtd/mtd-utils_1.0.0+git.bb Jul 25 02:27:21 * cesarb is not going to test in his own tree; it takes way too long to recompile things Jul 25 02:28:08 that is too sad we can not contribute to the project. We would do lots of work to make software stack mature. Jul 25 02:28:46 jackey: you can contribute using the emulator. it's not the same thing, but... Jul 25 02:29:13 out of here, take care of guys. We will attend Linux World at San Franciso Aug 6-9, our booth L1420, ArcherMind Technology Jul 25 02:29:46 Expecting the SDK to be bug-free at this point ... Jul 25 02:29:47 cesarb, emulator can not everything Jul 25 02:30:14 especially some commerical stack porting, for example HelloSoft voip stacks. Jul 25 02:30:48 Post to the community list. Jul 25 02:30:55 or dev Jul 25 02:31:45 bye, guys Jul 25 02:31:45 ZerothCloned, well the command you are after is 'git checkout' Jul 25 02:32:01 ZerothCloned, but i don't see where the tree is; so sorry Jul 25 02:32:02 daMaestro, that image is working great so far. I'm running it on a Celeron 1.8G, so it's still slooooowly booting... Jul 25 02:32:30 davel_, yeah.. it's no speed demon on my 3.2G dual core ... :-/ Jul 25 02:32:50 but my laptop is 1.8GHz, and it runs ok Jul 25 02:32:58 davel_, the first boot it has to do a lot more stuff Jul 25 02:33:31 daMaestro, still it's quick and easy and Just Works (tm). At least, so far. Jul 25 02:33:49 as long as you don't screw up the screen calibration, it works fine Jul 25 02:34:02 if you do.. rm -rf ~/something and start over Jul 25 02:34:02 lol Jul 25 02:34:19 * cesarb ponders: what would a user do if he messed up the screen calibration on his phone? Jul 25 02:34:39 on a palm, you would do a hard reset, which would ask for the calibration again Jul 25 02:35:34 for the touchscreen... is it a film that is over the top or a special sensitive device. Jul 25 02:35:35 Ah HAH! cesarb's suggestion did the trick. Update line 8 of openembedded/packages/mtd/mtd-utils_1.0.0+git.bb to read tag=a6fa706fe9e7696b4b2045edf9698c3bac07e3e3 and it patches cleanly and moves on. Jul 25 02:35:59 encompass top Jul 25 02:36:20 resistive touchscreen. Jul 25 02:36:36 davel_: cool Jul 25 02:36:44 SpeedEvil: thanks Jul 25 02:37:11 davel_: the theory was that it would force the revision to the same I used last time I built the tree ;-) Jul 25 02:37:23 Thanks cesarb! Jul 25 02:37:27 You are my hero! Jul 25 02:37:27 davel_: it depended on "tag=" meaning what I thought it meant Jul 25 02:38:01 (of course, since now you are pinned to a specific revision, you will not get updates to that package anymore... be sure to unpin it later) Jul 25 02:38:12 cesarb, care to add it to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile and take all the credit? Jul 25 02:38:31 well, learned something new today. Jul 25 02:38:40 Hallelujah! Jul 25 02:38:46 lmao Jul 25 02:38:49 holycow Jul 25 02:39:15 zoinks! Jul 25 02:39:17 davel_: ok Jul 25 02:39:26 hellow my mokomonkeys Jul 25 02:39:37 howdy Jul 25 02:40:14 how the moko is everyone? Jul 25 02:40:33 Smurfing wonderful. Jul 25 02:40:40 no no thats wrong Jul 25 02:40:47 the correct reply is 'mokorrific' Jul 25 02:40:52 * SpeedEvil wants a Blue neo. Jul 25 02:41:18 Thanks Guys! You made my day ( and its quite early here in Germany :) Jul 25 02:41:30 sure no worries Jul 25 02:41:35 you are moko welcome Jul 25 02:41:40 Are they shipping the blue ones yet? Did I miss something? Jul 25 02:42:12 there are blue ones?! Jul 25 02:42:21 No. Jul 25 02:42:36 Smurfs are blue. Jul 25 02:43:08 davel_: done, take a look to make sure it's what you did (as I'm too lazy to wait for things to compile on mine) Jul 25 02:43:34 ozark2: there are only silver/black and white/orange Jul 25 02:43:58 ozark2: thought I once spotted a "OLPC green"/white one on a concept drawing somewhere Jul 25 02:44:55 who came up with the work moko? Jul 25 02:44:59 davel_: ok, now it's done ("loss of session data"... urgh) Jul 25 02:45:22 cesarb: the wiki? Jul 25 02:45:45 back, then click submit again may work Jul 25 02:45:58 SpeedEvil: I know all these tricks, I'm a wikipedia admin ;-) Jul 25 02:46:04 :) Jul 25 02:46:15 * cesarb has seen worse wiki breakage Jul 25 02:46:22 cesarb, I was wondering why I didn't see anything. It looks great to me now. Congratulations, you have Made A Difference (tm) Jul 25 02:48:07 agh! *realizes he has no space on the directory he /was/ using for MokoMakeFile, so now needs to restart /all/ over again in a different drive* Jul 25 02:50:36 anyway, thanks guys! Jul 25 02:51:53 daMaestro, it came up and works great - you should really post that somewhere. It really turned an all-day thing into a 2 minute job for me. Jul 25 02:52:31 davel_, i just need to fix up the patches ... i was thinking about using ~/.openmoko by default and then also allowing a user to pass a directory to the script Jul 25 02:52:42 but it is too hacky to just pollute `pwd` Jul 25 02:52:52 davel_, then i'll submit them to the fedora repo Jul 25 02:55:36 i'd have to add openmoko-clean or something like that oo Jul 25 02:55:44 s/oo/too/ Jul 25 02:55:44 daMaestro meant: i'd have to add openmoko-clean or something like that too **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 25 02:59:57 2007