**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 04 02:59:56 2007
Aug 04 03:00:27 <sagacis> Yup
Aug 04 03:00:47 <anthony_> ok ill read up on ipkg, thanks
Aug 04 03:01:01 <sagacis> I added that path to my /etc/ipkg.conf file as a source
Aug 04 03:47:02 <arcanericky> Quiet 2nite.
Aug 04 03:50:22 <sagacis> We're all building and flashing... 
Aug 04 03:52:56 <moko-bunn1> sagacis: 2007.2 ?
Aug 04 03:55:02 <sagacis> I'm trying to get the image working on qemu first
Aug 04 03:55:51 <sagacis> I keep getting "s3c_adc_write: Bad register 0x8"
Aug 04 03:56:09 <arcanericky> How are you building 2007.2?  
Aug 04 03:56:28 <sagacis> I'm using the images from http://people.openmoko.org/alphaone/images/
Aug 04 03:57:09 <arcanericky> Oh.  I thought you were compiling it up yourself.
Aug 04 03:57:52 <sagacis> Not yet.  Maybe in a few minutes, using http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2
Aug 04 04:00:31 <sagacis> I got the same bad register on both images in qemu using the uboot and uImage from the alphaone site
Aug 04 04:03:47 <Mukunda> How do you bring up the onscreen keyboard on openmoko?
Aug 04 04:09:42 <notuniq> Mukunda, click on the grey rectangle near the top left corner
Aug 04 04:11:04 <notuniq> Mukunda, you can change the mode, i think by clicking on the top right of the grey box
Aug 04 04:12:33 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03werner * r2628 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-menu.patch: 
Aug 04 04:12:33 <CIA-24> openmoko: common/bootmenu.c:do_option, bootmenu_hook: renamed variable "aux" to "next"
Aug 04 04:12:33 <CIA-24> openmoko: common/bootmenu.c, include/bootmenu.h, board/neo1973/common/bootmenu.c: added
Aug 04 04:12:33 <CIA-24> openmoko:  setup items "next_key_action" and "enter_key_name" allow for board-specific
Aug 04 04:12:33 <CIA-24> openmoko:  boot menu instructions
Aug 04 04:13:00 <leppoc> someone knows about this kind of errors, while running the first make setup:
Aug 04 04:13:03 <leppoc> monotone: error: database schema 48fd5d84f1e5a949ca093e87e5ac558da6e5956d is unknown; cannot perform migration
Aug 04 04:13:20 <leppoc> can it be related to a 64 bit computer ?
Aug 04 04:13:34 <notuniq> what command are you running?
Aug 04 04:13:47 <leppoc> make setup
Aug 04 04:14:07 <leppoc> it comes just after downloading http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE.mtn.bz2
Aug 04 04:16:09 <notuniq> that's odd
Aug 04 04:17:10 <notuniq> it's the mokomakefile right?
Aug 04 04:17:51 <leppoc> well, I am following the tutorial on
Aug 04 04:17:53 <leppoc> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
Aug 04 04:18:04 <leppoc> I haven't touched the makefile
Aug 04 04:22:28 <notuniq> oh, i get the same error now when i try the migrate db step.  i haven't used the mokomakefile
Aug 04 04:23:23 <notuniq> well, different long number, but same words
Aug 04 04:24:15 <leppoc> ok. any idea on what should I/we do ?
Aug 04 04:26:12 <notuniq> i'm afraid i can't figure it out, and i'm dead tired so i have to go to sleep soon
Aug 04 04:26:37 <leppoc> Anyway, I'm going home, to try on my computer.
Aug 04 04:26:44 <leppoc> hehe :) no problem 
Aug 04 04:26:58 <leppoc> have a good night !
Aug 04 04:27:20 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]]
Aug 04 04:27:25 <notuniq> i just downloaded the md5sum of the OE.mtn.bz2 file
Aug 04 04:27:45 <notuniq> it doesn't match the one i had before
Aug 04 04:28:22 <notuniq> but i don't think that has anything to do with it
Aug 04 04:31:40 <quinton> well, good luck
Aug 04 04:35:13 <rtm_> The ARM in the neo is little endian, right?
Aug 04 04:56:23 <Richard_> right
Aug 04 04:56:37 <rtm_> Thanks!
Aug 04 05:15:33 <Linux_Galore> hmm nice phone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW07tCAQ9Ow
Aug 04 05:47:58 <Sup3rkiddo> hi all, anyone in a 2.6.22 kernel?
Aug 04 05:48:45 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, on a neo?
Aug 04 05:49:40 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, no on the host, i am looking to enable that CDC_ETHER but am stuck...usb_add gadget:1 returns a not found
Aug 04 05:50:14 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, i tried that to but my debian-kernel missed a module
Aug 04 05:51:06 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, have you gotten it working yet?, config-host has 1 for building against gadgetfs
Aug 04 05:51:50 <mdt> no, i havent' - i got my neo yesterday and lost interest in it ;)
Aug 04 05:52:14 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, aargh!...
Aug 04 05:52:26 * Sup3rkiddo steals mdt's neo and bricks it
Aug 04 05:52:31 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, and: qemu was incredible slow
Aug 04 05:53:01 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, yup, "incredibly"...but i got no choice till my baby arrives
Aug 04 05:58:28 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03werner * r2629 10/developers/werner/neocon/ (. Makefile README neocon.c): A simple interface for tty devices that pop in and out of existence.
Aug 04 05:59:53 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, so when will that be?
Aug 04 06:07:03 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, my order is in the second batch
Aug 04 06:09:48 <Sup3rkiddo> looks like cdc_ether has been changed to g_ether?...or i am on crack
Aug 04 06:12:21 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, ah, i see, so you get much better hardware than we do... ;)
Aug 04 06:12:59 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, ?, kidding me....i meant the mid-august batch
Aug 04 06:13:01 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, no, it's still called cdc_... here (2.6.22 kernel(
Aug 04 06:13:30 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, shure, i know - was a joke to make the wait time shorter...
Aug 04 06:13:49 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, where do you stay?
Aug 04 06:13:59 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, bah..can you show me the part of the .config that has that?
Aug 04 06:14:21 <mdt> wait a second
Aug 04 06:14:40 <mdt> it says: CONFIG_USB_NET_CDC_SUBSET=m
Aug 04 06:15:10 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, thanks mate...will take a look
Aug 04 06:15:40 <mdt> but the neo is strange: did not ask for a pin but the dialer startet to dial ;)
Aug 04 06:16:52 <mdt> oh, this time it does! wow... 
Aug 04 06:17:03 <Sup3rkiddo> man, that config option is so not there!!
Aug 04 06:17:43 <mdt> Sup3rkiddo, kernel?
Aug 04 06:18:01 <Sup3rkiddo> mdt, 2.6.22-r1, gentoo
Aug 04 06:18:52 <mdt> hm, don't know if 2.6.22 got that
Aug 04 06:19:07 <mdt> oups...
Aug 04 06:19:16 <mdt> sry, misread something
Aug 04 06:19:27 <mdt> (should not do more than one thing here)
Aug 04 06:20:35 <Sup3rkiddo> hmm...rc-4 had that...bad day today
Aug 04 06:20:55 <mdt> is it documented in Docu.../*?
Aug 04 06:27:40 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Category:Distributions]] [[Angstrom_on_Neo1973]] [[Category:OpenMoko]] [[P1_Owners]] [[USB_Networking]]
Aug 04 06:34:59 <wehttamb> counter
Aug 04 06:34:59 <aloril> Got it!  (1792;252)
Aug 04 06:50:36 <mdt> hm, does someone know if the neo has another ip than 192.168.0.202 in the actual image? i don't get it there...
Aug 04 06:53:21 <deepank> mdt: you can give it any ip you want. 
Aug 04 06:54:17 <mdt> deepank, you are joking
Aug 04 06:54:53 <mdt> deepank, how do i give something an ip where i can't login? :D
Aug 04 06:55:35 <deepank> mdt: ok you were talking about the image. 
Aug 04 06:55:55 <mdt> deepank, no, about a neo with an image ;)
Aug 04 06:56:19 <mdt> deepank, but i solved it - i had two devices attached and looked at the wrong if
Aug 04 06:56:26 <mdt> it /has/ ...202
Aug 04 06:57:16 <deepank> mdt: ok
Aug 04 06:57:33 <blindcoder> moin
Aug 04 06:57:57 <mrface> moin moin
Aug 04 07:58:54 <ml8128> Hello, i've followed the procedure in Flashing_openmoko but can't get the device into DFU Mode... dfu-util still see it as in runtime mode
Aug 04 08:05:34 <ml8128> nevermind, it switches to dfu when starting download
Aug 04 08:22:14 <Sup3rkiddo> gadget_attach: warning: failed to open gadgetfs: -13 is this normal
Aug 04 08:28:00 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973/fr]] [[Main_Page]]
Aug 04 09:00:53 <sunkist> hello all
Aug 04 09:01:32 <sunkist> anyone doing translation work?
Aug 04 09:03:49 <saaib> sunkist, I kind of started slowly
Aug 04 09:35:01 <Linux_Galore> ello ello moko nuts
Aug 04 09:35:55 <mbuf> cdc_ether should be loaded on host PC for USB networking to work?
Aug 04 09:37:14 <Sup3rkiddo> me, having problems with that as well
Aug 04 09:37:26 <sannes> mbuf: Yes, then you should have an usb0 device that you can set an ip on ..
Aug 04 09:38:08 <mbuf> sannes, i see only g_ether.ko
Aug 04 09:38:57 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, cdc_ether is under that Multi-purpose USB Networking Framework thingy...wiki seems to be wrong
Aug 04 09:39:46 <Sup3rkiddo> sannes, did a usb_add gadget:1, get a warning like this gadget_attach: warning: failed to open gadgetfs: -1
Aug 04 09:39:59 <Sup3rkiddo> s/-1/-13
Aug 04 09:40:09 <Sup3rkiddo> is that normal?
Aug 04 09:41:45 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, it is under kernel/net
Aug 04 09:41:46 <sannes> well, I havn't used usb_add ..
Aug 04 09:42:51 <sannes> I just plugin the openmoko into a corretly setup kernel with cdc_ether 
Aug 04 09:43:09 <Sup3rkiddo> sannes, oh but i dont have usb0, and i dont have the neo yet...using qemu
Aug 04 09:44:17 <sannes> oh, in that case .. heh, I misread.. have not tested that
Aug 04 09:45:14 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, Device Drivers > Network Device Support > USB Network Adapters > Multipurpose framework > CDC
Aug 04 09:45:14 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, debian 2.6.18-4-686 doesn't have cdc_ether module
Aug 04 09:46:29 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, CONFIG_USB_NET_CDCETHER=m under USB network adaptors
Aug 04 09:48:14 * mbuf compiles new kernel :(
Aug 04 09:48:36 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, i think g_ether is under usbgets
Aug 04 09:48:42 <Sup3rkiddo> *usb gadgets
Aug 04 09:49:15 <mbuf> Sup3rkiddo, that is for USB device, not for host PC
Aug 04 09:49:16 <mdt> is this normal: 
Aug 04 09:49:17 <mdt> root@fic-gta01:~$ fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 
Aug 04 09:49:17 <mdt> Unable to read /dev/mmcblk0
Aug 04 09:49:17 <mdt> ?
Aug 04 09:49:34 <mbuf> mdt, no
Aug 04 09:49:42 <mdt> i need ext2 on the micro-sd but can't create a ext2 filesystem there
Aug 04 09:50:27 <mdt> mbuf, what can that be? sd defect?
Aug 04 09:50:52 <mdt> mbuf, i mean the way to put it in the phone is somehow... hm. nothing for big fingers
Aug 04 09:50:54 <mbuf> mdt, can you mount the device first? check if you have the mmc drivers loaded from lsmod output
Aug 04 09:51:04 <mdt> mbuf, no,it does not mount
Aug 04 09:51:19 <mbuf> mdt, they clearly said it is a developer phone :)
Aug 04 09:51:44 <mdt> mbuf, so developers are meant to have fine small fingers?
Aug 04 09:52:12 <mdt> ;) just joking. shure u are right but access to the card from outside would be state of the art...
Aug 04 09:52:46 <mbuf> mdt, what is output of /sbin/lsmod | grep mmc
Aug 04 09:53:05 <mdt> mbuf, nothing, but a s3cmci ist loaded
Aug 04 09:53:18 <mdt> is s3cmci repsonsible for mmc?
Aug 04 09:54:46 <mdt> mbuf, i flashed the current image. there is no mmc.ko in it
Aug 04 09:55:40 <mbuf> mdt, i have s3cmci.ko  loaded
Aug 04 09:55:50 <mdt> me too
Aug 04 09:56:46 <mbuf> mdt, i don't have any mmcblk entries in /dev
Aug 04 09:57:06 <mdt> mbuf, i think they appear if you insert the card
Aug 04 09:57:52 <mbuf> mdt, let me try, hold on
Aug 04 09:58:01 <mdt> in fstab i see:
Aug 04 09:58:01 <mdt> # microSD slot
Aug 04 09:58:01 <mdt> /dev/mmcblk0p1  /media/c.........
Aug 04 09:58:13 <mdt> that's where i got the device from
Aug 04 09:59:53 <sunkist> my microsd makes the device unable to boot
Aug 04 10:00:00 <sunkist> anyone has that prb?
Aug 04 10:00:57 <mdt> sunkist, no, booting works fine with it here...
Aug 04 10:01:19 <mdt> perhaps these sd's are somehow damaged?
Aug 04 10:02:26 <kristian-m> mdt can't you try it with your host system? - with a camera or something?
Aug 04 10:02:55 <mdt> no, have no adapter here...  :/
Aug 04 10:04:14 <mbuf> mdt, which side of the SD-card goes in?
Aug 04 10:04:37 <mbuf> mdt, i mean microSD
Aug 04 10:04:50 <mdt> the contacts are to the middle of the device
Aug 04 10:05:04 <mdt> and away from you
Aug 04 10:05:16 <mdt> if you look at the back of the device
Aug 04 10:05:27 <mdt> there is a video at google showing how to insert...
Aug 04 10:05:56 <mbuf> mdt, that was not very clear
Aug 04 10:06:13 <mbuf> mdt, ok, got it
Aug 04 10:06:42 <mdt> mbuf, i had that same problem yesterday, hopefully this gets better with the next release
Aug 04 10:07:53 <mdt> 'that was not very clear': you meant me or the video (at http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-8343770443102960945)?
Aug 04 10:10:33 <mdt> mbuf, so did the devices apear
Aug 04 10:10:35 <mdt> ?
Aug 04 10:12:28 * ScaredyCat wobbles about...
Aug 04 10:12:38 <mdt> just found another micro-sd... wait a second ;)
Aug 04 10:12:41 * ScaredyCat hates the chanel tunnel now
Aug 04 10:12:55 <ScaredyCat> s/chanel/channel/
Aug 04 10:16:11 <mdt> hm, yes, it mounts the other one. but fdisk still cant' read the partition. probably 'normal'?
Aug 04 10:16:41 <jipi> has anyone faced problem of copying a list of files to neo /media/card and suddenly it has input/output error?
Aug 04 10:17:47 <mdt> jipi, will tell u in a second - do you use rsync or scp?
Aug 04 10:18:23 <jipi> mdt: i use scp
Aug 04 10:18:56 <mdt> how much do u copy?
Aug 04 10:19:40 <jipi> mdt:around 48MByte
Aug 04 10:19:50 <mdt> okay, copy starts...
Aug 04 10:19:55 <mdt> it's about 200M
Aug 04 10:21:21 <jipi> mdt: i could ask neo to remount thru modprobe -r s3cmci;modprobe s3mci
Aug 04 10:21:37 <jipi> mdt: sorry s3cmci
Aug 04 10:21:46 <Sup3rkiddo> mbuf, had any luck, i just ssh'd into the qemu image
Aug 04 10:22:06 <ScaredyCat> finally got home... got my neo...
Aug 04 10:22:18 <jipi> ScaredyCat: congrats!
Aug 04 10:22:25 <ScaredyCat> first thing... screen res seems way to high for its size...
Aug 04 10:22:49 <mdt> jipi, works fine here...
Aug 04 10:22:57 <Sup3rkiddo> ScaredyCat, CAN I HAS UR NEO
Aug 04 10:23:02 <ScaredyCat> flashed it all, no problems (dunno what all the fuss is about)
Aug 04 10:23:07 <ScaredyCat> Sup3rkiddo: No
Aug 04 10:23:08 <ScaredyCat> :D
Aug 04 10:23:19 <Sup3rkiddo> ==(
Aug 04 10:23:25 <jipi> mdt: i copied multiple files totaling 48Mbyte. Maybe I try a big file
Aug 04 10:23:37 <ScaredyCat> opensuse automatically detects the neo as a network device.....
Aug 04 10:23:47 <ScaredyCat> allows you to configgle it...
Aug 04 10:23:51 <ScaredyCat> excellent stuff
Aug 04 10:25:15 <thomasg> how can I create a rootfs-image and the kernel-uImage using mokomoakefile?
Aug 04 10:25:26 <mdt> jipi, i copy many, many files... no problem till now
Aug 04 10:26:26 <ScaredyCat> it does it when you build thomasg
Aug 04 10:26:32 <jipi> mdt: ok. i try to see if i can always replicate. and i'll try it from another PC.
Aug 04 10:26:42 <ScaredyCat> it'll only rebuild if it hasn't changed I guess
Aug 04 10:26:57 <thomasg> ScaredyCat, and where can I find the images?
Aug 04 10:27:16 <ScaredyCat> $OMDIR/build/deploy/images
Aug 04 10:27:22 <ScaredyCat> $OMDIR/build/tmp/deploy/images
Aug 04 10:27:31 <thomasg> there is no deploy in build directly, but tmp is there
Aug 04 10:27:48 <ScaredyCat> use th 2nd one
Aug 04 10:27:57 <ScaredyCat> first one i missed the tmp
Aug 04 10:28:12 <ScaredyCat> $OMDIR/build/tmp/deploy/images/
Aug 04 10:28:15 <mdt> jipi, oups, you are right - i got some io error now...
Aug 04 10:28:20 <thomasg> ok, thx ScaredyCat 
Aug 04 10:28:24 <ScaredyCat> np
Aug 04 10:28:28 <mdt> jipi,  perhaps the sd card driver is buggy?
Aug 04 10:28:40 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Hardware:NearlyTouchScreen]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Main_Page]] [[Neo1973/fr]]
Aug 04 10:32:36 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2630 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/ (7 files in 2 dirs): neod: extract basic functionality out of former openmoko-panel-mainmenu
Aug 04 10:36:40 <aloril> (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: SPI signal accessibility?
Aug 04 10:37:05 <jipi> mdt: oh! you got it?
Aug 04 10:37:28 <jipi> mdt: i wonder who is assigned. let me look at the bug db.
Aug 04 10:38:13 <mdt> jipi, i have the problem that i can't do a fdisk on that dev...
Aug 04 10:40:55 <mdt> is ipkg usable right now? i mean is it the way to upgrade the system or is flashing the right way?
Aug 04 10:42:33 <jipi> mdt: i'll try that out too.
Aug 04 10:42:44 <Sup3rkiddo> if i dial a number from the qemu, i should get what is equivalent to a busy line..right?
Aug 04 10:46:38 <mdt> the installed /etc/ipkg/base-feed.conf has a non-working url. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ipkg mentiones 2 urls which seem to bee quiet outdated. is there any newer source avaiable?
Aug 04 10:52:32 <C7> mdt: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/
Aug 04 10:59:16 <mdt> C7, thnx!
Aug 04 11:01:17 <mdt> strange, i don't understand ipkg: i used that url and do a search python but nothing apears... what's wrong?
Aug 04 11:01:43 <C7> mdt: you could put something like this (http://www.pastebin.ca/645273) in /etc/ipkg/base-feed.conf
Aug 04 11:03:20 <mdt> hm, still no python
Aug 04 11:03:51 <C7> mdt: ipkg list | grep python
Aug 04 11:03:58 <mdt> but an upgrade downloads stuff
Aug 04 11:04:30 <mdt> is 'upgrade' a good idea?
Aug 04 11:07:29 <C7> mdt: i would say so
Aug 04 11:07:42 <mdt> i can tell you soon ;)
Aug 04 11:15:38 <ScaredyCat> mdt: was it you having problems copying files to the memory card?
Aug 04 11:15:40 <mdt> C7, thnx alot, it still works ;)
Aug 04 11:15:50 <mdt> ScaredyCat, yes, me too
Aug 04 11:15:58 <mdt> my first problem was to fdisk it
Aug 04 11:16:09 <ScaredyCat> what can I do to reproduce it...
Aug 04 11:16:12 <mdt> i would prefere ext2 on it and was unable to do so
Aug 04 11:16:21 <mdt> scp many, many files to it
Aug 04 11:16:30 <mdt> or do a fdisk /dev/m...
Aug 04 11:16:30 <ScaredyCat> ok... will do
Aug 04 11:16:34 <ScaredyCat> many small ones?
Aug 04 11:16:53 <mdt> ScaredyCat, no, not nec. 
Aug 04 11:17:09 <ScaredyCat> k... mp3s would be ok then
Aug 04 11:17:25 <mdt> think so
Aug 04 11:17:37 <mdt> i copied a python bin into it
Aug 04 11:17:56 <mdt> (need python 2.5 :D )
Aug 04 11:18:59 <mdt> does fdisk work for u?
Aug 04 11:20:02 <ScaredyCat> copied 10 already
Aug 04 11:20:07 <mdt> oups - i did a ipkg update and my sdcard is gone
Aug 04 11:20:15 <mdt> there is no /dev/mmcblk0p1 anymore
Aug 04 11:20:31 <mdt> ScaredyCat, wait, took some time for me too
Aug 04 11:20:33 <ScaredyCat> just cp'ing -r music /
Aug 04 11:21:02 <ScaredyCat> scp: /media/card//Counting Crows/Recovering the Satellites: Input/output error
Aug 04 11:21:02 <ScaredyCat> scp: /media/card//Counting Crows/This Desert Life: Input/output error
Aug 04 11:21:09 <mdt> yes
Aug 04 11:21:12 <mdt> see dmesg
Aug 04 11:21:31 <mdt> can u please try a fdisk? (does not destroy anything)
Aug 04 11:22:11 <ScaredyCat> usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 27
Aug 04 11:22:11 <ScaredyCat> usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 28
Aug 04 11:22:26 <mdt> ScaredyCat, on the device?
Aug 04 11:24:00 <ScaredyCat> ok.. no
Aug 04 11:24:25 <mdt> C7 the upgrade was fine but installed kernel modules for 2.6.21.6 while kernel is 2.6.21.3 - where do i get the right kernel?
Aug 04 11:24:25 <ScaredyCat> ca't fdisk
Aug 04 11:24:34 <mdt> ScaredyCat, strange.
Aug 04 11:24:40 <mdt> what kernel do u use?
Aug 04 11:24:53 <ScaredyCat> chooseopen
Aug 04 11:25:26 <ScaredyCat> uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin
Aug 04 11:26:11 <C7> mdt: or http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin
Aug 04 11:29:01 <mdt> is there any directfb port for the neo? is someone also interested?
Aug 04 11:31:34 <mdt> u-boot rocks... wow
Aug 04 11:32:06 <jipi> ScaredyCat: do a modprobe -r s3cmci;modprobe s3cmci 
Aug 04 11:32:31 <jipi> ScaredyCat: it shd recover. but its still a bug that need to be fixed. might be a driver problem
Aug 04 11:33:25 <mdt> strange, the new kernel behaves different: the dev is mounted, fdisk works but show no partition
Aug 04 11:35:07 <mdt> okay, sry, the device /had/ no partition. verything fine now with fdisk/mkext2fs. will now try to copy files
Aug 04 11:39:31 <mdt> no, it does not work: even ls gives strange error messages
Aug 04 11:39:37 <SpeedEvil> How do I tell my APN?
Aug 04 11:39:43 <SpeedEvil> For GPRS
Aug 04 11:40:19 <mjr> you basically ask the provider...
Aug 04 11:40:30 <mjr> oh, or how do you tell it to the chip :)
Aug 04 11:40:37 <SpeedEvil> No.
Aug 04 11:40:47 <SpeedEvil> I have a SIM - is it stored there?
Aug 04 11:40:56 <mjr> I don't think so
Aug 04 11:41:36 <mjr> around here the operators generally send out configuration SMSs that some/most/whatever phones support, they probably wouldn't do that if they could just store on sim
Aug 04 11:41:39 <mjr> but not sure
Aug 04 11:41:58 <mdt> see here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS
Aug 04 11:42:12 <mjr> (of course, the sim _could_ have a preinserted configuration sms...
Aug 04 11:42:43 <mdt> at+cgdcont= is the at-command for that
Aug 04 11:43:18 <SpeedEvil> What - to read the SMSs?
Aug 04 11:43:45 <mjr> we get back to "basically ask the provider"
Aug 04 11:43:54 <SpeedEvil> Or google :)
Aug 04 11:46:07 <mdt> SpeedEvil, which provider, which country?
Aug 04 11:46:18 <SpeedEvil> t-mobile, UK
Aug 04 11:47:39 <mdt> probably general.t-mobile.uk
Aug 04 11:47:51 <mdt> gw 149.254.1.10
Aug 04 11:48:04 <SpeedEvil> yeah - that was what google said I think - I haven't really looked.
Aug 04 11:48:05 <SpeedEvil> Thanks
Aug 04 11:48:14 <SpeedEvil> I have free data for 10 days.
Aug 04 11:48:29 <SpeedEvil> Does anyone have a binary for bittorrent? :)
Aug 04 11:48:30 <mdt> wow, speed up, evil... :D
Aug 04 11:50:21 * Psi_ wants a binary for DOOM :P
Aug 04 11:52:17 <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
Aug 04 11:53:11 <SpeedEvil> It turns out the cheapest way to get internet that I've found so far is to A) Buy cheap PAYG phone on t-mobile, with a PAYG SIM. Put PAYG SIM in PAYG mobile box, ebay. Use free 10 days. repeat.
Aug 04 11:59:30 <SpeedEvil> I has a IP!
Aug 04 11:59:52 <ScaredyCat> gprs?
Aug 04 12:01:01 <SpeedEvil> 64 bytes from 140.211.166.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=1270.1 ms
Aug 04 12:01:01 <SpeedEvil> 64 bytes from 140.211.166.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=51 time=840.2 ms
Aug 04 12:01:10 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Not _too_ bad.
Aug 04 12:01:20 <SpeedEvil> --- 140.211.166.2 ping statistics ---
Aug 04 12:01:20 <SpeedEvil> 22 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, 0% packet loss
Aug 04 12:01:20 <SpeedEvil> round-trip min/avg/max = 605.2/800.9/1905.1 ms
Aug 04 12:02:23 <hhf423> gprs or something else?
Aug 04 12:02:51 <SpeedEvil> gprs
Aug 04 12:02:52 <mjr> sure sounds like gprs
Aug 04 12:05:28 <ScaredyCat> dagnabit!
Aug 04 12:05:30 <ScaredyCat> Please type 'yes' or 'no': yes
Aug 04 12:05:30 <ScaredyCat> Warning: Permanently added '140.211.166.2' (RSA) to the list of known hosts.
Aug 04 12:05:30 <ScaredyCat> Permission denied (publickey).
Aug 04 12:05:36 <ScaredyCat> >:)
Aug 04 12:05:52 <hhf423> hahaha, now the guy going to pay import duty, after flaming, and hank thinks its admitting an error
Aug 04 12:12:40 <aloril> (script) planet: Harald "LaF0rge" Welte: Progress with the new OpenMoko and FIC Mobility office http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/08/04#20070804-new_office_progress
Aug 04 12:13:21 <rwhitby> FIC Mobility.  Nice.
Aug 04 12:14:36 <ScaredyCat> well, surely he wouldn't pay VAT if he was importing 50000 units hhf423.. because, he'd be a company, with a reg'd VAT no
Aug 04 12:14:57 <jgm> ScaredyCat: are you trying to access projects.openmoko.org?
Aug 04 12:15:12 <ScaredyCat> not right now... why?
Aug 04 12:15:32 <jgm> Ah okay don't worry just saw that permission denied message and thought you were
Aug 04 12:15:37 * rwhitby finally flashes a recent u-boot to his GTA01bv3
Aug 04 12:16:05 <ScaredyCat> jgm: probably cos my browser forgot my password...
Aug 04 12:16:10 <ScaredyCat> was for the wiki tho
Aug 04 12:17:31 <GPRSevil> Whee!
Aug 04 12:17:55 <ml8128> rwhitby: is it worth to update u-boot for a P1 ? I have that "shutdown after 30sec" bug when in the menu, have to keep pressing AUX
Aug 04 12:17:57 <GPRSevil> Via telnet on the phone with GPRS.
Aug 04 12:18:04 <SpeedEvil> I'm having problems :)
Aug 04 12:18:31 <rwhitby> ml8128: I can't answer that for you, unless you have access to a Debug Board.
Aug 04 12:18:32 <SpeedEvil> A nice client would be good.
Aug 04 12:19:26 <mjr> for a second there I thought that you were actually telnetting to a host where you run irc, instead of sshing
Aug 04 12:19:51 <mjr> which, you know, would be uncharacteristically dumb :]
Aug 04 12:19:55 <GPRSevil>  No - sshing to the phone, then telnetting from there
Aug 04 12:20:06 <ml8128> rwhitby: yes, i have one, guess i should give it a try
Aug 04 12:20:19 <GPRSevil> I
Aug 04 12:20:22 <mjr> yeah, but telnetting apparently directly to an irc server
Aug 04 12:20:38 <rwhitby> ml8128: if you have a debug board, then you should.
Aug 04 12:20:40 <mjr> which is just fun geekiness, not stupid steal-my-password behaviour
Aug 04 12:20:52 <mjr> and I see the characteristic : forgetting ;)
Aug 04 12:20:57 <GPRSevil> could in principle do this on the phone - but - on-screen-keyboard.
Aug 04 12:21:14 <ml8128> rwhitby: but i've read on the wiki that dfu-util can't yet upload to the host pc, meaning i can't backup my working u-boot...
Aug 04 12:21:43 <mjr> SpeedEvil, through gpsd or directly to gsm chip?
Aug 04 12:21:50 <mjr> haven't yet tinkered with gprs myself
Aug 04 12:21:53 <SpeedEvil> directly.
Aug 04 12:22:02 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS
Aug 04 12:22:08 <mjr> yeah, I thought I hadn't seen how to do it through gpsd
Aug 04 12:22:12 <mjr> gsmd
Aug 04 12:22:24 <SpeedEvil> There is work going on to make it work during a call.
Aug 04 12:22:43 <rwhitby> ml8128: meh - I've never backed up anything.
Aug 04 12:23:08 <mjr> during a call? pseudo-class A?
Aug 04 12:23:22 * rwhitby just realises that means he didn't back up gllin
Aug 04 12:23:37 <SpeedEvil> gllin was not on the P1 deliveries.
Aug 04 12:23:41 <SpeedEvil> mjr: yes
Aug 04 12:23:50 <SpeedEvil> multiplexing
Aug 04 12:23:50 <mjr> SpeedEvil, that would be nice indeed
Aug 04 12:23:51 <rwhitby> SpeedEvil: I have a pre-P1
Aug 04 12:24:47 <ml8128> rwhitby: i'm a backup phreak :P Is the u-boot shipped with the P1 downloadable somewhere ?
Aug 04 12:27:00 <rwhitby> ml8128: I just flashed the one that mokomakefile just built, and it worked fine.
Aug 04 12:28:20 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] [[Talk:Screen_Grabber]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Package_management]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]]
Aug 04 12:28:48 <ml8128> ok, i'll give it a try then
Aug 04 12:29:03 <rwhitby> u-boot-gta01bv4-r11_b1b54e352028ed370c3aa95d6fdeb9d64c5d2f86_0_2628.bin
Aug 04 12:29:34 <rwhitby> along with uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin and openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070804111936.rootfs.jffs2 (all just built in the last hour)
Aug 04 12:31:41 <ml8128> i have openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091320.rootfs.jffs2 and uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin, i'll flash u-boot-gta01bv4-r11_b1b54e352028ed370c3aa95d6fdeb9d64c5d2f86_0_2375.bin
Aug 04 12:32:09 <ml8128> compilation failed today, didn't check yet why
Aug 04 12:34:29 <ml8128> uh.. downloading u-boot prints "DFU TRAILER NOT OK" on the moko....
Aug 04 12:34:51 <ScaredyCat> yay om2007.2 installed
Aug 04 12:35:27 <rwhitby> ScaredyCat: done the "flick the list" dance yet?
Aug 04 12:35:29 <noon> hello
Aug 04 12:35:52 <ScaredyCat> very soon rwhitby :)
Aug 04 12:36:20 <aloril> (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: SPI signal accessibility?
Aug 04 12:41:41 <ewon> hmm, those bluetooth watches look interesting
Aug 04 12:41:57 <ewon> shows called ID on a little OLED display, lets you reject calls
Aug 04 12:42:17 <ewon> apparently only works properly with Sony Erricson phones, but I'm sure the moko is up to the task :)
Aug 04 12:42:24 <ScaredyCat> size of a samll village
Aug 04 12:42:28 <thomasg_> ^^
Aug 04 12:42:42 <ScaredyCat> s/samll/small/
Aug 04 12:42:42 <apt> ScaredyCat meant: size of a small village
Aug 04 12:42:44 <thomasg_> and the battery lasts one day
Aug 04 12:45:29 <DukeOfURL> good morning
Aug 04 12:46:08 <BryceLeo> good moring
Aug 04 12:46:18 <ScaredyCat> now I have rwhitby :D
Aug 04 12:46:35 <BryceLeo> lol you jacked his nick?
Aug 04 12:46:39 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03abraxa * r2631 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer/src/ (9 files): Continued work on UI<->backend communication and gstreamer wrapping
Aug 04 12:46:46 * DukeOfURL reading through Harald's post
Aug 04 12:46:59 <ScaredyCat> no BryceLeo...
Aug 04 12:47:17 <ScaredyCat> now I have done the 'flick the list' dance...
Aug 04 12:47:18 <BryceLeo> ScaredyCat: lol then how do you have him?
Aug 04 12:47:39 <ScaredyCat> you came in at the tail end
Aug 04 12:47:40 <ScaredyCat> :)
Aug 04 12:47:49 <rwhitby> the tail end of ScaredyCat 
Aug 04 12:48:36 <daxxar> abraxa_: Sorry for not doing research, but openmoko-mediaplayer; what is it based on?
Aug 04 12:48:40 <daxxar> (if anything)
Aug 04 12:48:49 <ScaredyCat> heheh
Aug 04 12:49:01 <abraxa_> daxxar: I'm writing it from scratch
Aug 04 12:49:14 <daxxar> abraxa_: Cool, what about decoding? Are you using any libs for that?
Aug 04 12:49:17 <BryceLeo> DukeOfURL: which post from harald?
Aug 04 12:49:17 <abraxa_> It is however based on gstreamer if that's what you mean
Aug 04 12:49:25 <daxxar> ah, gstreamer, right.
Aug 04 12:49:38 <BryceLeo> nvm blog got it
Aug 04 12:49:42 <daxxar> Shouldn't gstreamer codecs be optimized for neo1973, due to e.g. bad fp handling?
Aug 04 12:49:50 <DukeOfURL> BryceLeo: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/08/04#20070804-new_office_progress
Aug 04 12:49:55 <BryceLeo> DukeOfURL: thanks
Aug 04 12:50:39 <abraxa_> daxxar: I'm not sure if that's an issue or not, I'll look into that if performance on the actual device gives reason to do so :)
Aug 04 12:50:48 <daxxar> abraxa_: Right. :-)
Aug 04 12:51:21 <daxxar> abraxa_: IMHO, one should look into that when it's a bit "finished" anyway, as better performance = less battery drain, right? :-)
Aug 04 12:51:34 <daxxar> abraxa_: (I'm not saying *you* should, but I mean, in general terms)
Aug 04 12:52:45 <SpeedEvil> _all_ software should be.
Aug 04 12:53:19 <SpeedEvil> If the software in general could run at 50MHz, not 266MHz, you would add quite a lot to battery life.
Aug 04 12:54:22 <BryceLeo> SpeedEvil: but you know how peoples love them some interpreted languages
Aug 04 12:54:33 <SpeedEvil> :/
Aug 04 12:55:54 <_buz> that david prior gui sure has some weird ideas 
Aug 04 12:57:07 <abraxa_> daxxar: That is right, I just am not sure if 50Mhz will suffice even with integer-math gstreamer libs - time till tell
Aug 04 12:57:35 <mdt> if you think of performance, wouldn't it be an improvement to drop X11 & gtk?
Aug 04 12:57:56 <abraxa_> Of course but then you lack the flexibility OpenMoko aims to have
Aug 04 12:57:58 <_buz> it might, but it would also mean writing almost all gui new
Aug 04 12:58:12 <_buz> and you cant go about running fun stuff anymore
Aug 04 12:58:22 <mdt> you have anyway because a desktop gui does not fit a mobile phone
Aug 04 12:58:42 <mdt> okay, i had fun today with my rxvt on the neo, u are right ;)
Aug 04 12:58:45 <BryceLeo> _buz: if you've been using the OM foundation libs it'll all transfer over, if you've been doing themeed gtk you're sol
Aug 04 12:59:38 <BryceLeo> that' certainly confuses me, mrxvt is a killer terminal why are we using gtkterm2 which can't even pickup a backspace right......
Aug 04 13:00:42 <kiney_> counter?
Aug 04 13:00:42 <aloril> Got it!  (1793;252)
Aug 04 13:01:31 <kiney_> hmm, how do I get the link to the counter-website now? I was used to copy and paste it from irc every time...
Aug 04 13:01:49 <_buz> jeez, my flat is a mess, installed a new kitchen this week, incredible what dirt that produces
Aug 04 13:02:45 <ml8128> BryceLeo: agreed, i'd prefer rxvt-alike to gtkterm
Aug 04 13:03:10 <BryceLeo> ml8128: haha i was starting to think that i was the only one
Aug 04 13:03:20 <BryceLeo> ml8128 do you use yeahconsole?
Aug 04 13:03:33 <ml8128> BryceLeo: yeahconsole ?
Aug 04 13:03:54 <BryceLeo> ml8128: quake style drop down console, it's pretty sweet
Aug 04 13:04:11 <BryceLeo> if you're on ubuntu/debian you can apt-get it
Aug 04 13:05:25 <ml8128> didn't know yeahconsole, thanks for the info. I used to use yakuake for that, but it's based on konsole which is WAY too heavy.
Aug 04 13:05:56 <BryceLeo> ml8128: haha that's the same thing i started with, this is super light and doesn't leave screen artifacts like yakuake does
Aug 04 13:06:02 <BryceLeo> well does occasionally
Aug 04 13:06:22 <abraxa_> kiney_: What counter website?
Aug 04 13:07:05 <kiney_> abraxa: the counte had wiki-page somewhere
Aug 04 13:07:14 <kiney_> but i can't find it again
Aug 04 13:07:26 <abraxa_> kiney_: What kind of information are you looking for? 
Aug 04 13:07:48 <kiney_> release-date for Phase 1.5
Aug 04 13:08:39 <abraxa_> I'm not sure there will be a Phase 1.5 anymore
Aug 04 13:08:54 <kiney_> ok... good to know
Aug 04 13:10:12 <abraxa_> If you look at the roadmap you'll realize that the actual Phase 1 started when Phase 1.5 was supposed to start
Aug 04 13:10:43 <kiney_> that's true. I thought that every phase was delayed a bit...
Aug 04 13:11:32 <ml8128> BryceLeo: once i'll figure how to add apps to openmoko using bitbake i'll add xterm. also have to find out how to prevent apps from being built
Aug 04 13:12:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2632 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: 
Aug 04 13:12:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: Changes to the 'tail erase' code for rootfs/jffs2 partition flashing:
Aug 04 13:12:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: * identify rootfs partition by its name, rather than hardcoded partition table index
Aug 04 13:12:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: * make debug messages indicate that they related to tail erase code
Aug 04 13:12:16 <CIA-24> openmoko: * fix bug in calculating the number of bytes that need to be erased (Closes: #419)
Aug 04 13:12:19 <CIA-24> openmoko: * fix ds->off calculation 'for consistency' (we want to be right with the consistency!)
Aug 04 13:14:57 <abraxa_> kiney_: Actually, this question would be interesting to be posted on the hardware list
Aug 04 13:15:05 <henla464_> Anyone know how to add a menu entry to the application/main menu (upper left corner)?
Aug 04 13:15:19 <henla464_> would like to add a shortcut to a script there
Aug 04 13:15:40 <kiney_> k
Aug 04 13:16:07 <BryceLeo> ml8128: for now you an check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Application_Development_Crash_Course&redirect=no#Adding_Your_Application_to_the_Image
Aug 04 13:16:45 <abraxa_> henla464_: Don't bother with that, the menu is gone in 2007.2
Aug 04 13:17:21 <Dmtiry_Platonov> anybody have issues with flash.sh from qemu-neo1973?
Aug 04 13:17:30 <BryceLeo> ml8128: as abraxa_ said, with the new release of 2007.2 a whole ton of things are gonna change, i'm presonally halting all work till then
Aug 04 13:17:36 <henla464_> ok, when is 2007.2 out?
Aug 04 13:17:50 <BryceLeo> ml8128:  and the first thing on my to-do list if they haven't fixed it will be that terrible f*ing keyboard they have
Aug 04 13:18:26 <rwhitby> LaF0rge: here's a patch for dfu-util to make it work on big-endian machines
Aug 04 13:18:29 <rwhitby> http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/optware/trunk/sources/dfu-util/fix-endianess.patch
Aug 04 13:18:33 <abraxa_> henla464_: Mickey is working hard to get it out the door so my personal guess is within the next 5~7 days
Aug 04 13:19:32 <henla464_> abraxa_: thanks. What are the main changes in 2007.2?
Aug 04 13:19:58 <Dmtiry_Platonov> henla464_, kinetic scrolling 8)
Aug 04 13:20:43 <henla464_> lol
Aug 04 13:20:49 <abraxa_> henla464_: If you want to be prepared for the change I'd suggest you switch to plain GTK instead of using libmokoui and friends
Aug 04 13:20:55 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 684 has been created by rod(AT)whitby.id.au
Aug 04 13:20:56 <cdbot2> * * or endianness bug with transfer size
Aug 04 13:20:57 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=684
Aug 04 13:22:18 <BryceLeo> abraxa_: why's that? you mean they're not updating libmokoui etc?
Aug 04 13:23:10 <abraxa_> BryceLeo: They are, just revamping it by removing unnecessary UI items
Aug 04 13:23:10 <mbuf> which directory is the microSD card mounted? i see /medid
Aug 04 13:23:41 * _buz wonders how far along gta02v2 is
Aug 04 13:23:42 <cesarb> mbuf: /media/mmcblk0 or something like that
Aug 04 13:24:01 <cesarb> mbuf: just do a "mount" or "cat /proc/mounts" ;-)
Aug 04 13:24:19 <cesarb> _buz: harald wrote about it on his blog today
Aug 04 13:24:49 <BryceLeo> abraxa_: so why not use it? most of the elements getting removed and changed aren't hard to work around
Aug 04 13:25:12 <BryceLeo> abraxa_: i guess it's just a bit of personal preference? i don't mind working on a moving target and others might
Aug 04 13:25:24 <mbuf> cesarb, cool; it is quite challenging to type in the keyboard, lol :)
Aug 04 13:26:30 <abraxa_> BryceLeo: The point is that some essential items are removed (e.g. the wheel in the bottom left corner) so people shouldn't base their UI on those elements when developing new apps, having to restructure their UI when they notice what's happening
Aug 04 13:27:57 <BryceLeo> abraxa_: i see what you mean, i never used that so it wasn't an issue for me, but i guess it will be a bit of a problem for osme
Aug 04 13:28:14 <thomasg_> whats the openmoko-orange-colorcode?
Aug 04 13:28:22 <mbuf> is there a control character to kill the process in terminal?
Aug 04 13:28:35 <ewanm89mob> A request, anyone working on a text input system with prediction, please include c prediction,
Aug 04 13:28:53 <cesarb> mbuf: Ctrl-C (aka SIGINT ;-) )
Aug 04 13:29:13 <mbuf> cesarb, from the touchscreen keyboard?
Aug 04 13:29:31 <cesarb> mbuf: I heard there's a trick on the onscreen keyboard...
Aug 04 13:29:49 <cesarb> mbuf: if you click on the small arrow to the right of the keyboard symbol at the top, a menu is supposed to appear
Aug 04 13:29:56 <mbuf> cesarb, the audio is crystal clear! awesome
Aug 04 13:29:57 <cesarb> mbuf: to let you chose other keyboard modes
Aug 04 13:30:04 * cesarb never actually tried it
Aug 04 13:30:26 <cesarb> (of course, knowing the broken keyboard symbol, the arrow would obviously be invisible)
Aug 04 13:33:17 <rwhitby> Does anyone know if gllin works on the P0 devices?
Aug 04 13:34:00 <cesarb> rwhitby: I see no reason why it wouldn't, the gps hardware didn't change...
Aug 04 13:36:38 <Kensan> FYI: my CC just got charged, so it seems that the next ~500 phones are getting preped for shipment.
Aug 04 13:36:48 <SpeedEvil> #?
Aug 04 13:37:57 <aloril> kiney_: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter
Aug 04 13:37:59 <henla464_> cesarb: cool, never saw the options to select keyboard
Aug 04 13:38:19 <aloril> kiney_: though now that I have gotten my Neo1973 its probably going to be updated less often
Aug 04 13:38:27 <henla464_> but backspace isn't working the terminal for me
Aug 04 13:38:35 <aloril> see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners instead
Aug 04 13:39:40 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: 1872 (color orange)
Aug 04 13:40:05 <BryceLeo> henla464_: that's because gtkterm2 isn't in my opinion a good solution, it's just more rounded corners
Aug 04 13:40:16 <BryceLeo> compile in mrxvt and you'll be all copacetic
Aug 04 13:40:26 <cesarb> henla464_: backspace works, it just doesn't display correctly
Aug 04 13:40:51 * aloril ponders about mokodot
Aug 04 13:40:51 <henla464_> cesarb: anyway to fix it?
Aug 04 13:42:03 <cesarb> henla464_: either it's some $TERM mismatch or the terminal is buggy... of course it's fixable, the question is what the fix is
Aug 04 13:42:56 <henla464_> cesarb: :-) of course its fixable...
Aug 04 13:44:03 * Dmtiry_Platonov just built OM-2007.2 image. QEMU is booting
Aug 04 13:44:42 <kiney_> aloril: thanks for the link
Aug 04 13:45:50 <BryceLeo> Dmtiry_Platonov: did you just follow the wiki to build?
Aug 04 13:48:17 <Dmtiry_Platonov> BryceLeo, I used it as general guide.
Aug 04 13:50:22 <Dmtiry_Platonov> for some reason, I have DISTRO = angstrom it bitbake output, but I specified DISTRO = openmoko in local.conf
Aug 04 13:51:11 <Dmtiry_Platonov> also, it shows angstrom logo during init (OM logo during kernel boot)
Aug 04 13:51:36 <BryceLeo> Dmtiry_Platonov: OM is based off angstrom and they're still moving things over
Aug 04 13:51:53 <BryceLeo> Dmtiry_Platonov: things like that should be sorted in a few days
Aug 04 13:52:30 <Dmtiry_Platonov> BryceLeo, I see. It did not go much further, qemu locked or something so.
Aug 04 13:52:52 <BryceLeo> Dmtiry_Platonov: that's a shame
Aug 04 13:53:38 <Dmtiry_Platonov> I'd try OM-2007 images to check if my qemu is ok.
Aug 04 13:55:19 <aloril> AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2700+: 13s
Aug 04 13:55:21 <aloril> GTA01B_v04: 21s
Aug 04 13:55:31 <aloril> for one sh script ;-)
Aug 04 13:55:56 <aloril> (probably because true is internal for openmoko shell, while external for fedora)
Aug 04 13:56:29 <aloril> actually... hmm
Aug 04 13:56:30 <TobiX> aloril: It is? I was in the impression that true is even built-in for bash...
Aug 04 13:56:47 <TobiX> Or any other modern shell, that is...
Aug 04 13:56:48 <aloril> root@fic-gta01:~$ ls -l /bin/true
Aug 04 13:56:48 <aloril> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            7 Jan  1  1970 /bin/true -> busybox
Aug 04 13:57:23 <Bryce|BknWdings> Dmtiry_Platonov: that's a good bet, i know alphaone has some up that have been verified working
Aug 04 13:57:25 <aloril> 17044 Jun  5  2006 /bin/true
Aug 04 13:57:25 <TobiX> aloril: That is not "built-in"... It is the same binary, but that says nothing about the builz-in-ness of the command
Aug 04 13:57:40 <aloril> well maybe it is, but anyway not much speed difference
Aug 04 13:57:42 <TobiX> $ type true
Aug 04 13:57:42 <TobiX> true is a shell builtin
Aug 04 13:58:01 <aloril> yeah, in both machines
Aug 04 13:58:12 <aloril> so busybox is just so much faster than bash ;-)
Aug 04 13:58:36 <TobiX> aloril: No surprise there, ash is much smaller and feater-less then bash
Aug 04 13:58:39 <aloril> for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 do for j in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 do ... 
Aug 04 13:59:00 <aloril> 6 loops ('count' to million)
Aug 04 13:59:18 <TobiX> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 682860 2006-12-11 22:20 /bin/bash
Aug 04 13:59:18 <TobiX> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  85544 2007-07-21 12:24 /bin/dash
Aug 04 13:59:40 <TobiX> The busybox-builtin-shell is almost the same as dash...
Aug 04 14:00:58 <TobiX> Actually busybux has multiple built-in shells, but only ash does support enough scripting to not be a pain-in-the-ass for writing scripts ;)
Aug 04 14:01:10 <henla464_> i'm trying to get wget to work from the phone through my computer without luck. Any suggestions what needs to be done?
Aug 04 14:01:11 * ewanm89mob prefers zsh
Aug 04 14:02:03 <TobiX> ewanm89mob: ACK, but not for an embedded environment, where speed and size matters the most
Aug 04 14:04:08 <ewanm89mob> Actually it runs rather well in emulation.
Aug 04 14:04:48 <TobiX> aloril: This is interesing (all done on my Sempron 2800+):
Aug 04 14:04:50 <TobiX> bash /tmp/loops  7,38s user 0,06s system 94% cpu 7,852 total
Aug 04 14:04:50 <TobiX> dash /tmp/loops  1,10s user 0,00s system 90% cpu 1,216 total
Aug 04 14:04:51 <TobiX> zsh /tmp/loops  2,48s user 0,66s system 91% cpu 3,416 total
Aug 04 14:05:03 <TobiX> Yupp, bash is bloated...
Aug 04 14:05:06 <ewanm89mob> haven't an actual neo1973 to try it on.
Aug 04 14:06:10 <ewanm89mob> bash does less at a greater cost than zsh.
Aug 04 14:06:23 <TobiX> And that are just some for loops without any commands in between...
Aug 04 14:07:13 <aloril> that would be factor 11 slower for Neo1973 then, in another test it was 20x
Aug 04 14:07:26 <TobiX> ewanm89mob: IIRC bash completion is a copy of zsh's first completion system... zsh is now at the third or forth...
Aug 04 14:07:30 <aloril> well.. I had "true" in innermost loop ;-)
Aug 04 14:07:50 <ewanm89mob> My try that test on my core2duo
Aug 04 14:08:02 <TobiX> I have ":", the empty command :)
Aug 04 14:08:26 <tHe_IkkE> Hi there, I'm not sure if this is the right place to say this, but I would like to implement the openmoko-panel-profiles to switch audio-profiles.
Aug 04 14:08:28 <TobiX> ewanm89mob: You want to parallize it? ;)
Aug 04 14:08:33 <aloril> 11s vs 13s
Aug 04 14:08:42 <tHe_IkkE> I would like to know if anyone is already working on this?
Aug 04 14:08:42 <aloril> tHe_IkkE: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Aug 04 14:09:06 <aloril> so ':' might be a bit faster than true (random other small load so might not be accurate)
Aug 04 14:09:19 <ewanm89mob> It probably is (gentoo)
Aug 04 14:12:22 <TobiX> It makes almost no difference for dash or zsh, but I see the 2s difference for bash, too...
Aug 04 14:12:51 <henla464_> ok got the networking working properly now by following: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking (automatic method)
Aug 04 14:15:18 <aloril> tHe_IkkE: probably better ask at devel or framework list, seems nobody knows answer here (my guess is that nobody is working on it, but I don't know)
Aug 04 14:15:41 <tHe_IkkE> Okay, I'll send a message to them.
Aug 04 14:16:01 <tHe_IkkE> I received my phone and my hans are itching to start some programming :)
Aug 04 14:19:36 <Dmtiry_Platonov> how to tell bitbake remake kernel and u-boot images?
Aug 04 14:20:56 <tHe_IkkE> You can clean images by using bitbake -c clean 
Aug 04 14:21:15 * aloril remembers gcc being packaged for Neo1973... , but I guess its same as with python: get it openembedded
Aug 04 14:21:54 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03mickey * r2633 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/neod-main.c: neod: install watcher
Aug 04 14:22:44 <mbuf> what is the xrandr command options to view the GUI in landscape mode?
Aug 04 14:24:30 <TobiX> --rotate left ?
Aug 04 14:25:27 <TobiX> Maybe even --output --rotate left ...
Aug 04 14:26:56 <TobiX> Ah, it must be --output <XID> --rotate left - but I really don't know how to get the XID...
Aug 04 14:27:42 <Kensan> mbuf: afaik "xrandr --rotate left" should work.
Aug 04 14:28:15 <SpeedEvil> On a related topic.
Aug 04 14:28:25 <SpeedEvil> I can ssh to the phone.
Aug 04 14:28:33 <SpeedEvil> And start local apps with DISPLAY set to 0:0
Aug 04 14:28:40 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[User_talk:THe_IkkE]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]]
Aug 04 14:28:49 <SpeedEvil> however, if I try to start apps on the display remotely, it does not work.
Aug 04 14:28:53 <SpeedEvil> I have done 'xhost +'
Aug 04 14:29:31 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, it is :0.0?
Aug 04 14:29:31 <Dmtiry_Platonov> It's bacause neo runs kdrive?
Aug 04 14:29:52 <SpeedEvil> No - :0 is socket - 0:0 is internet
Aug 04 14:30:03 <ewanm89mob> XID would probably be :0
Aug 04 14:30:24 <SpeedEvil> Indeed - I'm trying to connect to 192.168.1.202:0
Aug 04 14:30:42 <jgm> SpeedEvil: Are you using 'ssh -X' for X forwarding when you log in to the Neo?
Aug 04 14:30:46 <SpeedEvil> No.
Aug 04 14:30:58 <SpeedEvil> I'm just wanting to connect directly.
Aug 04 14:31:06 <mjr> SpeedEvil, 192.168.0.202:0 ...
Aug 04 14:31:16 <mjr> 'least with the default address
Aug 04 14:31:17 <ewanm89mob> there be the problem
Aug 04 14:31:24 <SpeedEvil> Why?
Aug 04 14:31:31 <SpeedEvil> oh
Aug 04 14:31:44 <SpeedEvil> That was stupid.
Aug 04 14:31:45 <mbuf> Kensan, any display parameter to be passed along with xrandr --rotate left?
Aug 04 14:31:47 <SpeedEvil> Thanks!
Aug 04 14:32:00 <ewanm89mob> It wouldn't be port 0
Aug 04 14:32:14 <SpeedEvil> It is.
Aug 04 14:34:06 <Kensan> mbuf: it should "just work" (tm)
Aug 04 14:34:28 <mbuf> Kensan, ok it was "xrandr -o left"; thanks
Aug 04 14:34:58 <mbuf> but, is there any way, we can change the resolution, or should we change the font?
Aug 04 14:35:19 <Kensan> mbuf: ic. Friend of mine used it to properly setup ScummVM ;)
Aug 04 14:36:09 <aloril> SpeedEvil: ssh back to your machine, export DISPLAY=192.168.0.202:0.0
Aug 04 14:36:45 <SpeedEvil> aloril: yes - I had that working.
Aug 04 14:36:52 <SpeedEvil> My problem was typoing the address.
Aug 04 14:36:54 <aloril> ah, other way around
Aug 04 14:37:46 <aloril> should probably add all "program in Neo1973, display PC; program in PC, display on Neo1973" stuff to wiki
Aug 04 14:37:58 <SpeedEvil> I'm going to.
Aug 04 14:38:03 <SpeedEvil> I'm just playing with FF first.
Aug 04 14:38:30 <SpeedEvil> Works rather better rotated
Aug 04 14:40:46 <mdt> SpeedEvil, we discussed io-errors on scp earlier... i have ext2 now on the sd-card (problem was missing ext2 module) and have the same behavior. and: the automounter mount a partitioned sd-card  whole-disk as vfat under /media/mmcblk0 - dont' know why
Aug 04 14:41:05 <SpeedEvil> When do you get the io errors?
Aug 04 14:41:13 <SpeedEvil> I've not seen any - with vfat
Aug 04 14:41:43 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, he was trying to use ext2 on the microSD card
Aug 04 14:41:48 <mdt> i had those with vfat earlier and now also. it is after copying several files and disapears after
Aug 04 14:42:04 <mdt> mbuf, which works fine now...
Aug 04 14:42:52 <mbuf> mdt, ok
Aug 04 14:43:13 <mdt> mbuf, problem was missing kernel module. forgot that ipkg spilts that
Aug 04 14:43:17 * rwhitby gets Maemo Mapper on his n800 to use the Neo as a bluetooth GPS receiver ...
Aug 04 14:44:16 <matthew_> battery life improved yet?
Aug 04 14:44:19 <mbuf> anybody here use Debian Etch for their host PC?
Aug 04 14:45:07 <Kensan> mbuf: yes.
Aug 04 14:45:09 <mdt> mbuf, uuuh, what is etch - unstable?
Aug 04 14:45:17 <rwhitby> etch is stable 4.0
Aug 04 14:45:23 <mdt> ah, thnx
Aug 04 14:46:07 <mbuf> i have 2.6.18-4-686 and it doesn't have cdc_ether by default; tried compiling new 2.6.22.1 kernel with fakeroot and it hangs at "Begin: waiting for root filesystem"
Aug 04 14:47:07 <mdt> mbuf, why use fakeroot?
Aug 04 14:47:32 <mbuf> did google around, but, tried yaird without success; trying 2.6.20 now; using this documentation: http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_debian_etch
Aug 04 14:48:00 <SpeedEvil> matthew: Not yet.
Aug 04 14:48:54 <mbuf> so if you don't have a laptop, and you are traveling with Neo1973, there is no way of charging it?
Aug 04 14:49:02 <ewanm89mob> Easiest to compile kernel manually.
Aug 04 14:49:22 <aloril> looking at wikipedia Neo1973 article on Firefox displayed on Neo1973 and laughing a bit at top note (though from consumer viewpoint it is true)
Aug 04 14:49:27 <mdt> mbuf, there are charger around with an mini-usb connector. wondering if they work
Aug 04 14:49:30 <mbuf> ewanm89mob, kernel boots fine; its the initrd that is causing the problem
Aug 04 14:49:38 <SpeedEvil> mbuf: it will charge - slowly - when off.
Aug 04 14:50:07 <rwhitby> or just buy any number of after-market USB charging devices that can put out 1A.
Aug 04 14:50:08 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if 'autofast' in u-boot will let it charge right.
Aug 04 14:50:35 <mbuf> i see
Aug 04 14:51:13 <ewanm89mob> Ah, no initrd makes life easier. (if possible)
Aug 04 14:52:51 <SpeedEvil> when not in u-boot I mean.
Aug 04 14:53:02 <mdt> rwhitby, do they work? i read a note that fic did not include a charger because they didn't find one usb-complient.
Aug 04 14:53:03 <SpeedEvil> The power control chip manual is silly.
Aug 04 14:53:07 <SpeedEvil> 136 pages.
Aug 04 14:53:29 <SpeedEvil> mdt: There are _no_ standards compliant USB chargers.
Aug 04 14:53:45 <SpeedEvil> Simply because USB is not defined to work without being connected to a host.
Aug 04 14:54:05 <mdt> SpeedEvil, exactly, so will a charger fry my neo?
Aug 04 14:54:09 <SpeedEvil> No.
Aug 04 14:54:14 <ewanm89mob> so they tricked the chip?
Aug 04 14:54:16 <SpeedEvil> It will simply not charge very fast.
Aug 04 14:54:28 <SpeedEvil> The pcf* chip does not know about USB.
Aug 04 14:54:55 <SpeedEvil> It has to be configured to either automatically, or under CPU control, to go to high-rate charge.
Aug 04 14:55:17 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if the kernel resets the way it's setup.
Aug 04 14:56:02 <aloril> hmm.. is there way to force fast charge when outside u-boot (except building modified kernel)?
Aug 04 14:56:14 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure.
Aug 04 14:56:25 <SpeedEvil> I tried several methods - but they did not seem to work.
Aug 04 14:56:59 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure if setting 'autofast' under u-boot, will persist when linux starts.
Aug 04 14:57:05 <ml8128> and is it possible to disable charging when using usb to sync files, ssh, ... ?
Aug 04 14:57:18 <SpeedEvil> Why would you want to?
Aug 04 14:57:25 <SpeedEvil> In principle.
Aug 04 14:57:30 <SpeedEvil> Yes, the hardware supports this.
Aug 04 14:57:31 <ml8128> i'm afraid short charging cycles would kill the battery
Aug 04 14:57:53 <ewanm89mob> soldering iron surgery might work.
Aug 04 14:58:00 <SpeedEvil> It's not soldering iron.
Aug 04 14:58:18 <SpeedEvil> From reading the datasheet, it seems to be completely doable over IRC.
Aug 04 14:58:19 <SpeedEvil> Err
Aug 04 14:58:21 <SpeedEvil> I2C
Aug 04 14:58:31 <aloril> there is way at hardware level: you need to modify cable (don't recall what wiki page told that or was it on IRC): need to add resistor to certain pin or something like that
Aug 04 14:58:46 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if that is in fact implemented.
Aug 04 14:59:07 <SpeedEvil> I'm going to get deeper into the PM stuff tonight.
Aug 04 14:59:12 <aloril> anyway, modified kernel should work ...
Aug 04 14:59:51 <aloril> best would be some kind of echo "force_fast" > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/something ..?
Aug 04 15:00:27 <aloril> even better if you could specify amperage (250mA or 500mA)
Aug 04 15:00:39 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Aug 04 15:00:42 <SpeedEvil> However.
Aug 04 15:00:54 <SpeedEvil> You can set the CPU voltage to 4.2V that way.
Aug 04 15:01:01 <SpeedEvil> This would be bad.
Aug 04 15:01:27 <SpeedEvil> _DO_NOT_ screw with those files unless you are damn sure what they do.
Aug 04 15:02:45 <Bryce|BknWdings> jees SpeedEvil you mean i shoudn't set my cpu voltage that high? but why not? i love frying gta01 internals!!!!
Aug 04 15:02:48 <aloril> later post by harald sounds optimistic, for example they have found several competent people
Aug 04 15:02:56 <ewanm89mob> obviously I should make sure/proc writes are root only.
Aug 04 15:03:08 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril i've no doubts they'll work it out
Aug 04 15:03:16 <SpeedEvil> I note that it is possible to set the PLL to 300Mhz.
Aug 04 15:03:35 <aloril> SpeedEvil: thanks for warning, was mainly looking at pcf50606_charge_fast function
Aug 04 15:04:06 <aloril> anyway, reason I'm interested on 250mA too is that MintyBoost supports only up to that ;-)
Aug 04 15:04:14 <SpeedEvil> And the CPU absolute max voltage is quite a bit higher than the nominal.
Aug 04 15:04:18 <aloril> (according to its FAQ)
Aug 04 15:04:47 <aloril> SpeedEvil: do you know why chgcur: 1733 ? (for example)
Aug 04 15:05:01 <SpeedEvil> From my memory of the datasheet - no, it doesn't directly.
Aug 04 15:08:02 <SpeedEvil> You can do it indirectly I think.
Aug 04 15:08:02 <SpeedEvil> On another topic.
Aug 04 15:08:02 <SpeedEvil> Do 'points' on the touchscreen bounce around by 3 pixels or so in each direction?
Aug 04 15:08:53 <aloril> yes, it looks like it, try  drawing with any painting program
Aug 04 15:08:59 <mjr> they do seem to bouch a bit yes
Aug 04 15:10:30 <mickeyl> anyone fancy trying some things to dejitter ?
Aug 04 15:10:39 * mickeyl busy with other things atm.
Aug 04 15:10:42 <SpeedEvil> aloril: it has no correlation I can see with the battery shunt I've put in.
Aug 04 15:10:54 <mickeyl> a) play with oversampling_shift 
Aug 04 15:11:06 <mickeyl> b) play with pressure reporting frequency
Aug 04 15:11:12 <mickeyl> both in s3c2410_ts.c iirc
Aug 04 15:11:18 <SpeedEvil> pressure reporting?
Aug 04 15:11:25 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Aug 04 15:11:26 <mickeyl> ts
Aug 04 15:11:34 <mickeyl> not pressure in parcitular
Aug 04 15:11:47 <SpeedEvil> contact resistance?
Aug 04 15:12:25 <sagacis> does anybody here have mrxvt as an ipkg compiled to save me a few minutes?
Aug 04 15:12:44 <Bryce|BknWdings> sagacis lemme check
Aug 04 15:14:08 <SpeedEvil> Me too.
Aug 04 15:14:17 <SpeedEvil> I'd like to try to ipkg over GPRS
Aug 04 15:14:32 * ewanm89mob doesn't.
Aug 04 15:14:56 <SpeedEvil> Anyone got gcc+binutils? :)
Aug 04 15:17:05 <ewanm89mob> ipkg over gprs it would be faster to get the neo to compile it.
Aug 04 15:17:06 <Bryce|BknWdings> http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/mrxvt_0.4.1-r0_armv4t.ipk
Aug 04 15:17:08 <SpeedEvil> Also - can several people report cat ./devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/battemp
Aug 04 15:17:18 <Bryce|BknWdings> taht should be the right package
Aug 04 15:18:41 <sagacis> thanks!  I'll give it a shot
Aug 04 15:19:24 <SpeedEvil> ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for mrxvt:
Aug 04 15:19:24 <SpeedEvil>          libxpm4 (>= X11R7.1-3.5.5)
Aug 04 15:19:31 <SpeedEvil> on the wgetted file
Aug 04 15:19:54 <tHe_IkkE> SpeedEvil: I get (after a few times cat battemp) values between 8 and 12 changing quite fast.
Aug 04 15:20:16 <SpeedEvil> TWhat's the approx temp where you are?
Aug 04 15:20:38 <sagacis> Bat temp 10, plugged into the usb
Aug 04 15:20:53 <tHe_IkkE> I guess about 25 degrees celcius
Aug 04 15:20:54 <sagacis> Me too
Aug 04 15:20:56 <SpeedEvil> Seems to be reading moderately consistently low.
Aug 04 15:21:03 <tHe_IkkE> I'm also plugged in BTW
Aug 04 15:21:10 <sagacis> That's strange
Aug 04 15:21:11 <Bryce|BknWdings> SpeedEvil:  http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/libxpm-dev_X11R7.1-3.5.5-r0_armv4t.ipk
Aug 04 15:22:32 <Bryce|BknWdings> sagacis SpeedEvil deps's up if you need more just holler
Aug 04 15:22:33 <sagacis> heh. I'm using wget from the host and scp to the device.  Whadamaroon!  I could wget directly.
Aug 04 15:22:49 <SpeedEvil> Bryce|BknWdings: ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for libxpm-dev:
Aug 04 15:22:49 <SpeedEvil>          libxpm4 libx11-dev
Aug 04 15:22:58 <SpeedEvil> I don't think this will end well :)
Aug 04 15:23:12 <SpeedEvil> nvm if it's an explosion of dependancies.
Aug 04 15:23:34 <Bryce|BknWdings> haha i'm game for a couple more
Aug 04 15:23:53 <SpeedEvil> I think libx11-dev is liable to be huge
Aug 04 15:24:02 <Bryce|BknWdings> http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/libx11-dev_X11R7.1-1.0.1-r4_armv4t.ipk
Aug 04 15:24:13 <Bryce|BknWdings> only 142k
Aug 04 15:24:24 <sagacis> 1 mb
Aug 04 15:24:25 <Aria> libX11 is tiny and shrinking thanks to Xcb.
Aug 04 15:24:31 <SpeedEvil> that comes up with unresolved dependancies to the above
Aug 04 15:24:32 <sagacis> Oh, you're right
Aug 04 15:24:32 <Aria> Well, getting tiny.
Aug 04 15:24:48 <sagacis> libxpm4?
Aug 04 15:25:30 <Bryce|BknWdings> whoops
Aug 04 15:25:35 <Bryce|BknWdings> x11dev is still going
Aug 04 15:25:46 <Bryce|BknWdings> i got bandwidth to spare
Aug 04 15:26:56 <Bryce|BknWdings> http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/libxpm4_X11R7.1-3.5.5-r0_armv4t.ipk
Aug 04 15:27:03 <Bryce|BknWdings> http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/libx11-dev_X11R7.1-1.0.1-r4_armv4t.ipk
Aug 04 15:27:07 <Bryce|BknWdings> x11dev is 7.5mb
Aug 04 15:27:17 <SpeedEvil> that's not too bad.
Aug 04 15:27:25 <Bryce|BknWdings> not bad at all
Aug 04 15:27:41 <Bryce|BknWdings> much better than i expected, i was a bit astonished at the 128
Aug 04 15:27:48 <Bryce|BknWdings> till i realized it wasn't finished up loading
Aug 04 15:29:22 <sagacis> Cool! Installed/configured
Aug 04 15:29:29 <sagacis> Now I need to change the apps menu, eh?
Aug 04 15:29:31 <Bryce|BknWdings> w00h00
Aug 04 15:29:50 <sagacis> Thanks!  You should upload it to openmoko.org.  Do we have a public dist site?
Aug 04 15:30:16 <Bryce|BknWdings> hahaha, it's not that big a deal, i mean it took like 15 mins to build
Aug 04 15:31:01 <Dmtiry_Platonov> where are know-to-work images?
Aug 04 15:31:27 <sagacis> Woohoo!
Aug 04 15:31:36 <sagacis> Yeah, but you had to sort out dependencies, etc.
Aug 04 15:31:50 <sagacis> Remember, I'm inherently lazy...
Aug 04 15:31:59 <sagacis> I'm working on other things and duplicating your effort is silly
Aug 04 15:32:13 <sagacis> The point of open source is to distribute the workload, not multiply it.
Aug 04 15:32:20 <SpeedEvil> What would be lovely would be a simple repository with all the ipkgs readily available.
Aug 04 15:32:20 <Bryce|BknWdings> sagacis i guess i see what you mean
Aug 04 15:32:46 <aloril> battvolt: 4195 chgcur: 1626 chgmode: fast_cccv chgstate: <NULL> fast_enabled <NULL> battemp: 9
Aug 04 15:32:52 <Bryce|BknWdings> heh, i don't have tha tmuch bandwidth!!
Aug 04 15:34:10 <ewanm89mob> I got vim, sudo, ruby and zsh ipkgs.
Aug 04 15:34:34 <sagacis> Why sudo?  Do you have a non-root user?
Aug 04 15:34:36 <Bryce|BknWdings> i've got lua too
Aug 04 15:35:10 <sagacis> duh: projects.openmoko.org
Aug 04 15:35:17 <Bryce|BknWdings> thought lua doesn't interest many
Aug 04 15:35:24 <Bryce|BknWdings> though*
Aug 04 15:35:31 <aloril> Bryce|BknWdings: I'm interested
Aug 04 15:36:20 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril if you're willing to just shoot me back messages with what deps you need i'll put up the ipks
Aug 04 15:37:04 <sagacis> I'm outta here. Thanks, Bryce for the usable terminal. 
Aug 04 15:37:32 <aloril> Bryce|BknWdings: sure
Aug 04 15:37:54 <mickeyl> do you have a screenshot?
Aug 04 15:38:06 <mickeyl> you lik mrxvt better than gtkterm?
Aug 04 15:38:09 <anthony_> with ipkg do i have to compile it myself... im having a hard time finding how to download ipkg, their website confuses me     lots
Aug 04 15:38:10 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril alrighty i'm worrking on it
Aug 04 15:38:35 <Bryce|BknWdings> mickeyl:  mrxvt is a bit lighter and understands backspace correctly, it's quicker than patching gtkterm2
Aug 04 15:39:06 <sagacis> anthony_: put all the ipk files in a single directory
Aug 04 15:39:10 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril: http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/ipk/lua_5.0.2-r3_armv4t.ipk
Aug 04 15:39:35 <sagacis> anthony_: then run "ipkg install mxvrt_0.4.1-r0_armv4t.ipk"
Aug 04 15:39:36 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/ipk/lua-doc_5.0.2-r3_armv4t.ipk  and docs if they interst you
Aug 04 15:39:50 <anthony_> ah ha ok thank you sag
Aug 04 15:39:57 <Bryce|BknWdings> i made an ipk directory so update your link
Aug 04 15:40:01 <sagacis> I had to run xpm4 install first.  It didn't find the depend
Aug 04 15:41:31 <sagacis> ls
Aug 04 15:41:33 <sagacis> oops
Aug 04 15:42:42 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril any deps you need?
Aug 04 15:42:56 * Bryce|BknWdings *smacks head* lemme check the bb file
Aug 04 15:43:02 <aloril> liblua5.0 (>= 5.0.2) liblualib5.0 (>= 5.0.2) libreadline4 (>= 4.3)
Aug 04 15:44:40 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/
Aug 04 15:46:26 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Aug 04 15:46:56 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril  http://www.pics.and-a-half.com/ipk/lua5/
Aug 04 15:47:47 <Kensan> SpeedEvil: did you see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Package_management
Aug 04 15:47:59 <SpeedEvil> No - I diddn't.
Aug 04 15:49:11 <Bryce|BknWdings> Kensan:  it's not complete oe though
Aug 04 15:49:54 <aloril> Bryce|BknWdings: liblua5.0 ?
Aug 04 15:50:07 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril crap did i miss that one....
Aug 04 15:50:35 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril sorr bout that 
Aug 04 15:50:37 <Bryce|BknWdings> it's up
Aug 04 15:51:32 <Bryce|BknWdings> Kensan:  it for example doesn't have Lua or mrxvt
Aug 04 15:51:52 <aloril> Bryce|BknWdings: thank you!
Aug 04 15:52:03 <Bryce|BknWdings> aloril no problem 
Aug 04 15:52:16 <Kensan> Bryce|BknWdings: yeah, but it's a good start. but if you want to put up a full repository please do :)
Aug 04 15:52:32 <Bryce|BknWdings> Kensan: haha if you can get me hosting that allows it i'd be more than willing!!
Aug 04 15:52:57 * Aria perks.
Aug 04 15:53:04 <Aria> I've a server with space for such a thing.
Aug 04 15:53:08 <SpeedEvil> What would be handy for me at the moment would be 'netpipes' - busyboxes nc seems to be misbehaving.
Aug 04 15:53:10 <Aria> And a reasonable bandwidth allowance.
Aug 04 15:53:22 <SpeedEvil> It's a tiny little netcat-alike
Aug 04 15:53:27 <Bryce|BknWdings> Aria: hmmm
Aug 04 15:55:14 <Bryce|BknWdings> SpeedEvil:  i don't see "netpipes" in the oe tree
Aug 04 15:55:22 <SpeedEvil> It's probably not.
Aug 04 15:55:35 <Aria> I'm serious about that hosting. I own http://theinternetco.net/
Aug 04 15:55:36 <SpeedEvil> I'm just trying to work out why 'nc' is falling over.
Aug 04 15:57:07 <Bryce|BknWdings> Aria:  for as inappropariate as this may sound, how fat is your pipe?
Aug 04 15:57:26 <SpeedEvil> ASL/pipesize :)
Aug 04 15:57:41 <Aria> Hee
Aug 04 15:57:47 <Bryce|BknWdings> SpeedEvil: lmfao exactly!
Aug 04 15:57:48 <Aria> 23/q/Colorado/11mbps
Aug 04 15:57:57 <Aria> And in December, we're widening to 45mbps.
Aug 04 15:57:58 * Bryce|BknWdings whistles
Aug 04 15:58:00 <Bryce|BknWdings> nice pipe
Aug 04 15:58:16 <Aria> It's shared with a lot of other boxes, but it's a decent setup. Not perfect, but adequate.
Aug 04 15:59:50 <Bryce|BknWdings> Aria: that sounds pretty good, i'll to some test builds to see how much i can get compiled and built with relative ease and if it works out we'll def be in touch
Aug 04 16:00:01 <Aria> Alrighty!
Aug 04 16:00:23 <Aria> hit me at aria.stewart@theinternetco.net if you want to tag me for hosting and I'm not on IRC. 
Aug 04 16:01:19 <Bryce|BknWdings> Aria:  sounds great to me
Aug 04 16:01:24 <Bryce|BknWdings> Aria:  thanks dude
Aug 04 16:02:02 <Aria> Sure thing.
Aug 04 16:14:20 <abraxa_> Hmm... so the GConf manual says that session data does not belong there - where else am I supposed to store session data then? Does anyone have a suggestion? Sure I could make a ~/.openmoko-mediaplayer file but that might not be the nicest way of doing this...
Aug 04 16:15:49 <mickeyl> abraxa_: go for it as the 1st try. we have yet to formulate a unified session data place.
Aug 04 16:16:17 <abraxa_> Oh, Mickey :)
Aug 04 16:16:22 <abraxa_> Okay, will do that then
Aug 04 16:16:24 <mickeyl> abraxa_: another thing. i'm going to svn mv the directory to openmoko-mediaplayer2 (as per recent policy for OM2007.2) dirs. is that ok somewhere this nite? you shouldn't have uncommited changes then
Aug 04 16:16:53 <abraxa_> That's fine either way, I can just make a diff locally and apply it to the moved dir
Aug 04 16:17:06 <mickeyl> ok, cool.
Aug 04 16:17:13 <SpeedEvil> abraxa_: what's the current state?
Aug 04 16:18:35 <abraxa_> SpeedEvil: The backend is ~75% complete (missing some functions like shuffle/repeat, GConf and DBus integration), GUI is 50% complete
Aug 04 16:19:16 <SpeedEvil> :)
Aug 04 16:27:50 <borg_> yeha, my neo works :P
Aug 04 16:28:20 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Input_Method]] [[User_talk:Cg]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Category:Server]] [[Hardware:NearlyTouchScreen]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User_talk:THe_IkkE]]
Aug 04 16:28:44 <Aria> Yay!
Aug 04 16:28:46 <borg_> i flashed the rootfs and kernel and did allready a call via console ;)
Aug 04 16:28:50 <borg_> without any problems :))
Aug 04 16:30:28 <abraxa_> Good job, borg!
Aug 04 16:30:50 <borg_> so, where is the problem with connecting the dialer-gui with libgsm at the momment?
Aug 04 16:30:54 <borg_> is somebody working on that?
Aug 04 16:33:34 <abraxa_> borg_: The new dialer seems to be doing this already
Aug 04 16:33:39 <borg_> oh
Aug 04 16:33:40 <borg_> :)
Aug 04 16:33:48 <borg_> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/
Aug 04 16:33:53 <borg_> i used one of this images
Aug 04 16:34:08 <abraxa_> Yeah, they contain the old apps
Aug 04 16:34:13 <borg_> are they deprecated?
Aug 04 16:34:14 <borg_> mh
Aug 04 16:34:14 <aloril> borg_: sound OK too?
Aug 04 16:34:35 <borg_> aloril: have not testet sound :)
Aug 04 16:34:56 <abraxa_> borg_: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/ - you can try compiling and running those if you feel brave
Aug 04 16:34:59 <borg_> is their a ogg player or something like that on it?
Aug 04 16:35:06 <borg_> abraxa_: ah ok, i will try
Aug 04 16:35:08 <abraxa_> borg_: Is in the works
Aug 04 16:35:10 <SpeedEvil> madplay?
Aug 04 16:35:12 <aloril> ogg123 is included
Aug 04 16:35:14 <Richard_> app1 needs lib1.so and lib1.so needs lib2.so, when linking app1, it also ask for lib2.so. How can I disable this hands-on depend?
Aug 04 16:35:18 <borg_> ogg123 is fine
Aug 04 16:36:38 <aloril> borg_: sound works out of box, sound for GSM voice calls: should work with right state file, but .. what I have isn't right, maybe somebody has right one (haven't catched up on IRC logs)
Aug 04 16:37:26 <SpeedEvil> alori: search manually on the wiki
Aug 04 16:37:31 <SpeedEvil> look at using GSM manually
Aug 04 16:37:37 <SpeedEvil> and the sound-state from there
Aug 04 16:37:44 <SpeedEvil> worked for me anyway
Aug 04 16:37:46 <borg_> aloril: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM
Aug 04 16:37:58 <borg_> http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmheadset.working.state
Aug 04 16:38:22 <borg_> but i have not testet it, i just dialed
Aug 04 16:38:31 <aloril> borg_: ah, OK, I just read that didn't work and didn't even try that one (only one that was included) ;-)
Aug 04 16:38:50 <aloril> /etc/*gsmheadset*
Aug 04 16:41:11 <SpeedEvil> Got IO errors too.
Aug 04 16:41:16 <SpeedEvil> trying scping mp3s on
Aug 04 16:43:29 <borg_> mh
Aug 04 16:43:35 <borg_> how fast is the usb port?
Aug 04 16:44:07 <Aria> USB1.1
Aug 04 16:44:21 <Aria> Since that's on the SOC
Aug 04 16:44:40 <borg_> its usb1.1 i know
Aug 04 16:44:51 <borg_> but how fast is it?
Aug 04 16:44:53 <borg_> only 200kb/sec?
Aug 04 16:45:03 <borg_> i somehow cant geht more
Aug 04 16:45:25 <borg_> ogg123 works btw
Aug 04 16:45:30 <borg_> the sound is pretty nice
Aug 04 16:46:09 <xzcvczx> how do you rebuild the module dependencies?
Aug 04 16:46:28 <BlackBsd> http://snapvoip.blogspot.com/2007/08/google-phone-coming-soon.html
Aug 04 16:50:39 <BlackBsd> so is how does soto integrate with openmoko?
Aug 04 16:50:42 <BlackBsd> sato*
Aug 04 16:57:08 <borg_> too bad that i have to write my bachelor thesis at the momment
Aug 04 16:57:20 <borg_> i would so much like to hack something for the neo now :)
Aug 04 16:57:25 <ewanm89_laptop> sagacis: ping
Aug 04 16:58:14 <zecke> moin
Aug 04 17:01:14 <abraxa_> Servus Zecke
Aug 04 17:01:42 <SpeedEvil> HmmHmm On USB performance.
Aug 04 17:01:45 <SpeedEvil> time dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=1024 count=10240 |nc 192.168.0.200 10000
Aug 04 17:01:49 <SpeedEvil> comes back in 16s
Aug 04 17:02:01 <SpeedEvil> sorry - 12s
Aug 04 17:02:09 <SpeedEvil> 16s copying from the SD
Aug 04 17:07:05 <guerby> counter
Aug 04 17:07:05 <aloril> Got it!  (1794;252)
Aug 04 17:07:41 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com
Aug 04 17:07:41 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com 
Aug 04 17:08:20 <aloril> counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic)
Aug 04 17:08:20 <aloril> aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) 
Aug 04 17:09:53 <xzcvczx> phew... successfully updated u-boot
Aug 04 17:10:49 <SpeedEvil> :) Why?
Aug 04 17:11:05 <ml8128> what unit is battemp in ? I've seen someone asked people to report it
Aug 04 17:11:09 <SpeedEvil> C
Aug 04 17:11:12 <SpeedEvil> Or it should be
Aug 04 17:11:25 <ml8128> well, it started at -10
Aug 04 17:11:34 <SpeedEvil> It seems to be reading low by 10C for some people.
Aug 04 17:11:42 <SpeedEvil> at what sort of temp?
Aug 04 17:11:47 <ml8128> after 5 min was -4
Aug 04 17:11:54 <ml8128> it's over 25C in my room
Aug 04 17:12:05 <SpeedEvil> Thanks.
Aug 04 17:12:22 <ml8128> now it's 2 (after 10min on usb)
Aug 04 17:12:28 <SpeedEvil> I'll do some checking tonight, to see if the thermistor value is properly measured.
Aug 04 17:12:36 <SpeedEvil> Or if it's a miscalculation.
Aug 04 17:13:06 <ml8128> how much battvold when fully charged ?
Aug 04 17:13:49 <ml8128> *battvolt
Aug 04 17:15:19 * ml8128 thinks he should plot the different sensors
Aug 04 17:15:58 <raynet> hoo, mobile compo is about the begin at Asm07, thanks to UPS, no Neo in that compo
Aug 04 17:18:28 <abraxa_> raynet: Didn't Asm degrade to a big LAN party with demoscene compos as a side events? That's what I heard at least
Aug 04 17:20:02 <raynet> abraxa_: well yes, but i choose to ignore that fact :)
Aug 04 17:20:09 * amarsh04 was surprised at the latest offerings at the mass market computer store - quad core intels with 2-4 gig RAM and 1000 gig hdd
Aug 04 17:20:14 <raynet> still a good place to meet friends
Aug 04 17:20:36 <abraxa_> raynet: True that
Aug 04 17:22:04 <raynet> and still, it is fun to write some intro/demo with obscure old computer even if there is just you and someone else to watch it
Aug 04 17:27:42 <xzcvczx> does anyone know how the ss sl sw and sr commands are done in libgsmd-tool
Aug 04 17:28:06 <mbuf> do we need to take backup of mtdblocks?
Aug 04 17:34:03 <ml8128> what should be the battery state once it's fully charged ?
Aug 04 17:34:17 <ml8128> <NULL> ?
Aug 04 17:34:36 <ml8128> *battery mode
Aug 04 17:35:05 <PBeck> hi
Aug 04 17:37:10 <ml8128> chgmode is still fast_cccv whereas battvolt is "stable" between 3984 and 4048, ie battery is charged ?
Aug 04 17:42:10 <ml8128> or is the 100mA charging not enough when the neo is running ?
Aug 04 17:44:30 <mbuf> ml8128, it is around 4200 and odd
Aug 04 17:45:15 <mbuf> ml8128, neo will charge at 500mA if the host can supply it
Aug 04 17:45:57 <ml8128> mbuf: means battery is not full yet and neo is draining about 500mA ?
Aug 04 17:46:26 <mbuf> ml8128, neo only uses the power, doesn't drain anything
Aug 04 17:47:59 <ml8128> i meant to ask if the neo is using 500mA, since the battery charge doesn't really increase... am i wrong thinking the neo takes power from the battery even when plugged to usb ?
Aug 04 17:50:27 <mbuf> ml8128, AFAIK, neo only takes power from the battery; current from USB is used to charge the battery; some hardware person could probably correct me if i am wrong
Aug 04 17:50:33 <ml8128> mbuf: http://pastebin.ca/645502
Aug 04 17:51:18 <mbuf> ml8128, what is that output?
Aug 04 17:51:24 <cjb> mbuf: Correct.
Aug 04 17:52:06 <ml8128> mbuf: a shell scripts, it reads the battery meters every 10 secs
Aug 04 17:52:42 <ml8128> battvolt is stable now though earlier today it was below 3500 when i was unplugged
Aug 04 17:53:07 <mbuf> ml8128, maybe, add it to PS1 environment variable so you can see it on the terminal?
Aug 04 17:53:26 <mbuf> ml8128, atleast the third column from the left
Aug 04 17:53:49 <ml8128> first line has column names
Aug 04 17:57:29 <SpeedEvil> mbuf: this does not seem to be the case in all modes.
Aug 04 17:58:03 <borg_> is there a file in /proc/ which shows the status of the battery?
Aug 04 17:58:06 <borg_> i cant find it
Aug 04 17:58:21 <ml8128> borg_: /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/
Aug 04 17:58:22 <SpeedEvil> find /proc -name "*battvolt*"
Aug 04 17:58:48 <borg_> SpeedEvil: nothin there
Aug 04 17:58:50 <borg_> ml8128: thx
Aug 04 17:59:26 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, which one?
Aug 04 17:59:55 <mbuf> borg_, cat `find /sys | grep battvolt`
Aug 04 18:00:11 <SpeedEvil> ah /sys, not /proc
Aug 04 18:00:15 <borg_> mbuf: yes, thx ;)
Aug 04 18:00:55 <mbuf> borg_, anytime; np
Aug 04 18:01:25 <ml8128> when I unplug battvolt goes down, so seems 4078 is highest i can get
Aug 04 18:01:46 <SpeedEvil> It should head up to 4200 or so.
Aug 04 18:02:17 <borg_> its stuck at 4195 here
Aug 04 18:02:21 <mbuf> ml8128, i haven't observed battery status that much yet
Aug 04 18:02:28 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03laforge * r2634 10/trunk/oe/conf/machine/fic-gta01.conf: * make jffs2 image little-endian, even if buildhost ist big-endian (Closes: #663)
Aug 04 18:02:46 <SpeedEvil> 4195 == 4200 for these purposes.
Aug 04 18:02:58 <borg_> :D
Aug 04 18:05:19 <ml8128> i'll leave it unplugged for 20-30mins, then plug back till battvolt stops increasing and i'll plot the data, i can post it if you are interested
Aug 04 18:06:06 <SpeedEvil> The power control chips documentation is 136 pages.
Aug 04 18:06:07 <SpeedEvil> :)
Aug 04 18:06:08 <mbuf> ml8128, plot data?
Aug 04 18:06:30 <mbuf> mtdblock4 is a massive partition? takes a long time to backup
Aug 04 18:09:59 <ml8128> mbuf: yes, with gnuplot
Aug 04 18:10:52 <mbuf> ml8128, cool
Aug 04 18:11:07 <ml8128> mbuf: yeah, i want to know how my battery works :D
Aug 04 18:12:27 <SpeedEvil> http://www.ibt-power.com/Battery_packs/Li_Ion/Lithium_ion_tech.html
Aug 04 18:12:37 <SpeedEvil> for an overview of charging voltages and discharging
Aug 04 18:14:20 <ml8128> SpeedEvil: thx, though i want to assess the thresholds specific to my battery
Aug 04 18:15:14 <SpeedEvil> There are none.
Aug 04 18:15:22 <SpeedEvil> The battery chemistry is more or less constant.
Aug 04 18:15:37 <SpeedEvil> There are no specific voltages associated with each battery.
Aug 04 18:15:50 <SpeedEvil> It's simply got a means of measuring temperature.
Aug 04 18:15:57 <SpeedEvil> No other readable data.
Aug 04 18:16:33 <mbuf> oops, i almost spilt hot chocolate on the neo
Aug 04 18:18:20 <ml8128> SpeedEvil: what do you mean ? shouldn't it be fully charged at about 4.2 and has a limit before deep discharge ?
Aug 04 18:19:36 <SpeedEvil> ml8128: I mean - lithium-ion is pretty much lithium-ion. You don't have special voltages per cell.
Aug 04 18:20:08 <SpeedEvil> They all top out at 4.2V (nowadays) and go down to about 2.8V, with similar discharge curves.
Aug 04 18:20:33 <ml8128> what's the value used to estimate charge % then ?
Aug 04 18:22:31 <SpeedEvil> At the moment it's a simple line between 4.2V and 2.8V I've got a patch here that I'm working on for a much better battery model.
Aug 04 18:23:33 <ml8128> oh, so the value i get from battvolt will not provide decent data to plot the discharge curve ?
Aug 04 18:23:43 <SpeedEvil> yes, it will.
Aug 04 18:24:29 <SpeedEvil> The percentage figure is very inaccurate.
Aug 04 18:25:57 <mbuf> how can i force the phone to shutdown?
Aug 04 18:26:26 <mbuf> applications are not launching
Aug 04 18:26:26 <SpeedEvil> Hammer!
Aug 04 18:26:32 <SpeedEvil> shutdown -r -t 0 now
Aug 04 18:26:42 <SpeedEvil> Or hold the power button for >6 seconds
Aug 04 18:26:52 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, can't open terminal or any other application;
Aug 04 18:27:15 <CoreDump|home> cbrake: congratulations ;)
Aug 04 18:27:16 <mbuf> SpeedEvil, it prompts for menu and if i choose power off, nothing happens
Aug 04 18:27:23 <mbuf> ssh works, but halt, lsmod gives Input/output error
Aug 04 18:27:33 <SpeedEvil> heep holding
Aug 04 18:27:39 <SpeedEvil> keep
Aug 04 18:27:46 <SpeedEvil> It may be more like 10s.
Aug 04 18:27:56 <SpeedEvil> Worst case, pop the battery.
Aug 04 18:28:09 <ml8128> mbuf: i had that I/O error earlier today, dmesg showed fs errors, i had to remove the battery
Aug 04 18:28:30 <mbuf> ok, brb
Aug 04 18:28:40 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Historybuff/notes]] [[Screen_Shots]] [[Talk:MacOS_X]] [[Wiki_Issues]] [[Talk:Openstreetmap]] [[P1_Owners]]
Aug 04 18:40:21 <mjr> well damn, the buildhost's python subprocess depends on traceback, and it isn't installed for me. Wonder where that is...
Aug 04 18:41:00 <mjr> ah well, I can probably convert to os.popen...
Aug 04 18:56:54 <sannes> Anyone got a statically compiled gdb for arm around?
Aug 04 19:08:24 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03zecke * r2635 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Aug 04 19:08:24 <CIA-24> openmoko: 2007-08-04 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <zecke@selfish.org>
Aug 04 19:08:24 <CIA-24> openmoko:  Move code around and we end up with an almost complete feed-data
Aug 04 19:08:24 <CIA-24> openmoko:  implementation. The main page to select feeds is still missing.
Aug 04 19:08:26 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/application-data.h:
Aug 04 19:08:28 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/callbacks.c:
Aug 04 19:08:30 <CIA-24> openmoko:  * src/feed-data.c:
Aug 04 19:28:56 <idarwi1> most of the time my gsmd does not start up, but I don't know why not; it start OK manually (using /etc/init.d/gsdm start)
Aug 04 19:29:52 <anrp> "most" D:
Aug 04 19:29:56 <anrp> everyone loves race conditions!
Aug 04 19:30:41 <idarwi1> I would say all but not certain, I think maybe once or twice it did start.
Aug 04 19:30:52 <anrp> err
Aug 04 19:31:01 <anrp> once or twice is a lot different than never?
Aug 04 19:31:09 <anrp> one could be broken (simpler to look at)
Aug 04 19:31:39 <idarwi1> I am sorry but I cannot be certain. Say "almost never".
Aug 04 19:32:00 <anrp> :/
Aug 04 19:32:44 <idarwi1> but starting it manually, and using libgsmd-tool I can register (gets a cell id, for example).
Aug 04 19:33:04 <mjr> Muhaha, my python remote control works natively on the Neo, and controls my desktop just dandy. Had to adapt to some obsolete APIs due to the old python at buildhost though.
Aug 04 19:33:26 <idarwi1> cool
Aug 04 19:34:50 <ml8128> talking about remote control, will P2 have IrDA ?
Aug 04 19:34:56 <mjr> no
Aug 04 19:36:08 <ml8128> mjr: did the devs deny it, or it wasn't discussed at all ?
Aug 04 19:37:11 <mjr> they've also not denied it'll have a V12
Aug 04 19:37:22 <mjr> it's basically a non-issue
Aug 04 19:37:40 <anrp> v12 micro engine!
Aug 04 19:37:43 <anrp> powered by steam?
Aug 04 19:39:43 <aloril2> SpeedEvi: battemp: 41 (volt: 4125, chgcur: 746): USB charger, probably 100mA
Aug 04 19:40:48 <arcanericky> How do I find the bitbake target to compile a single program?  For example, to compile gsmd?
Aug 04 19:42:45 <aloril2> now its -10 ;-)
Aug 04 19:43:43 <ml8128> arcanericky: with mokomakefile : make build-package-<packagename> i think
Aug 04 19:48:01 <Elrond> mickey is always having dinner, when I am here in the evening. ;o)
Aug 04 19:48:01 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: now 22 (see above for 2 previous values)
Aug 04 19:48:37 <SpeedEvil> aloril: odd.
Aug 04 19:49:07 <SpeedEvil> I am unsure if chgcur means anything - at least on my phone.
Aug 04 19:50:13 <abraxa_> Elrond: He has a girlfriend so of course "dinner" is not just dinner :)
Aug 04 19:50:29 <Elrond> abraxa_ - Yeah. ;-)
Aug 04 19:50:52 <aloril2> SpeedEvil: chgcur is clearly higher when fast charge is on
Aug 04 19:51:05 <anrp> "clearly" D:
Aug 04 19:51:25 <aloril2> also when battery gets full it starts to oscillate
Aug 04 19:51:28 <Kliment_> mjr: hold on, if you have yours already, how come I don't
Aug 04 19:51:49 <mjr> Kliment_, I'm cooler than you
Aug 04 19:52:01 * Kliment_ stabs mjr and steals his neo
Aug 04 19:52:26 <Kliment_> I thought they serviced orders by country
Aug 04 19:52:27 <mjr> Also, I ordered very quickly, and noted on the order form Sean's promise that as a seminar quest at Tampere I'd get from the first batch
Aug 04 19:52:42 <Kliment_> ah ok, that makes sense then
Aug 04 19:53:04 <mjr> Kliment_, well, they started shipping to US, but it took like a day or two to get shipping elsewhere too, from the first batch
Aug 04 19:53:12 <anrp> i got in order #4 from the numbering, and I only joined this channel after I ordered D:
Aug 04 19:53:18 <anrp> i have a phone but no time to use it for now ~_~
Aug 04 19:53:26 <ml8128> aloril2: what's the average value when full ?
Aug 04 19:53:28 <Kliment_> is the first batch all gone now then?
Aug 04 19:53:29 <mjr> at least Aloril also has one
Aug 04 19:53:35 <mjr> here in Fi
Aug 04 19:53:39 <aloril2> was it 10h for first 500?
Aug 04 19:53:48 <Kliment_> I mean all sent out
Aug 04 19:53:57 <mjr> Kliment_, I think by now yes
Aug 04 19:54:05 <Kliment_> looks like mine was delayed to second batch then
Aug 04 19:54:34 <Kliment_> I only got charged two days back
Aug 04 19:54:51 <aloril2> next 500 seems to going out soon, at least I heard somebody was charged recently
Aug 04 19:55:07 <aloril2> hehe
Aug 04 19:55:08 <SpeedEvil> Ok - first cut power numbers. 'basic' - idle with backlight off. 680mW. GSM on but unconnected - 7mW. GSM on call 600mW. backlight +300mW. GPS on - unsure if this is actually the 'on' mode 24mW. BT - idle 50mW, and 'mem' suspend mode - 120mW. 
Aug 04 19:55:09 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - I finally think, that my HH isn't as b0rked, as I was thinking. Maybe the antenna is not perfectly connected or so. I reviewed my init sequence yesterday night and found some bugs. After fixing them, all those artefacts went away, when I was doing some testing this evening. I even clould do some not too bad guesses on "this sat is there", and has some doppler. ;-)
Aug 04 19:55:13 <Kliment_> can't wait to run powertop on this thing and slaughter the power-consumin guserspace stuff to bits
Aug 04 19:55:22 <mwester> Kliment_: you are one of the fortunate ones, there are many of us who don't even know if our phones have, or ever will be, manufactured!
Aug 04 19:55:30 <Kliment_> mwester: ?
Aug 04 19:55:44 <SpeedEvil> I suspect that suspend mode is significantly higher than it should be.
Aug 04 19:55:45 <mwester> You are in the second batch of 500, right?
Aug 04 19:55:53 <Kliment_> mwester: how do I find out?
Aug 04 19:55:55 * aloril2 thinks it was 1-2 weeks from charge to Neo1973 in hand
Aug 04 19:55:57 <SpeedEvil> Basically as stuff isn't properly turned off. I may well be wrong.
Aug 04 19:56:14 <mwester> If you have been charged, then your phone is in the first or second batch at least
Aug 04 19:56:22 <Kliment_> I have been charged
Aug 04 19:56:24 <SpeedEvil> This would give a first-cut rough battery life in suspend mode of 30+ hours.
Aug 04 19:56:52 <mwester> Then you are fortunate.  There is no information that confirms that additional batches have been manufactured at this time.
Aug 04 19:57:18 <mjr> yeah being charged has its plus sides
Aug 04 19:57:21 <Kliment_> mwester: wasn't there some email back a few days ago that said they have enough for everyone
Aug 04 19:57:29 <mwester> :D
Aug 04 19:57:33 * aloril2 thinks that most of first batch has been delivered, rest of it probable eary next week
Aug 04 19:57:41 <SpeedEvil> Kliment_: they can produce enough for everyone != "they have enough now."
Aug 04 19:57:53 <Kliment_> goos point, SpeedEvil 
Aug 04 19:57:54 <mwester> There were emails saying that those who didn't get P0 phones would have P1 phones for purchase in February, too.
Aug 04 19:58:24 <Kliment_> good*
Aug 04 19:58:48 <Kliment_> I'm away for a week in germany, but I guess it won't be here before that
Aug 04 19:58:55 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 685 has been created by cesarb(AT)cesarb.net
Aug 04 19:58:56 <cdbot2> * * Detect a dedicated USB charger according to the USB battery charging specification
Aug 04 19:58:57 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=685
Aug 04 19:59:15 <SpeedEvil> That may not be possible for P1
Aug 04 19:59:23 <SpeedEvil> However.
Aug 04 19:59:28 <aloril2> also: "can produce a lot and ship to business" != "produce and ship to customers"
Aug 04 20:00:27 <SpeedEvil> The method I mentioned earlier - turn on if 5V and no USB protocol - should work. Just needs implementing.
Aug 04 20:00:29 <mwester> There's also the practical business aspect of this.  How many P1 phones do they REALLY want out there?  If you assume many will end up on eBay, and in the hands of end users, that could besmirch the OpenMoko brand.
Aug 04 20:00:42 <SpeedEvil> IMO.
Aug 04 20:00:50 <Kliment_> mwester: that is just silly
Aug 04 20:00:51 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: it also breaks when you connect to a suspended host
Aug 04 20:00:55 <mwester> Why silly?
Aug 04 20:00:58 <SpeedEvil> I have several developer friends that I think might be interested.
Aug 04 20:01:04 <SpeedEvil> If they could purchase now.
Aug 04 20:01:09 <Kliment_> mwester: I believe there are plenty of announcements about the state it's in now
Aug 04 20:01:18 <Kliment_> mwester: I don't see how it would hurt the brand
Aug 04 20:01:21 <SpeedEvil> I'd like to be able to say 'you can buy it now, and it'll be shipped in a week'.
Aug 04 20:01:23 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: even if it's on a future hardware revision, using the "correct" method as specified by the USB-IF seems worth it
Aug 04 20:01:39 <SpeedEvil> cesarb: yes - I've noted that on the wiki.
Aug 04 20:01:59 <SpeedEvil> cesarb: true - many people never ever connect to suspended hosts. And it's an option.
Aug 04 20:02:07 <mwester> It's beyond the "it has no software" state, Kliment_ -- there are known hardware/firmware problems with the P1 that can plague OpenMoko.
Aug 04 20:02:17 <SpeedEvil> I need to look at the USB host controller pins more carefully.
Aug 04 20:02:19 <Kliment_> mwester: yes, of course
Aug 04 20:02:25 <mwester> Such as that it doesn't work with AT&T sims.   How many eBay sellers will disclose that?
Aug 04 20:02:46 <Kliment_> mwester: but I think it's a general issue with misrepresentation and fraud on ebay
Aug 04 20:02:49 <mjr> hmh
Aug 04 20:02:53 <Kliment_> mwester: I do not believe it will hurt the brand
Aug 04 20:03:17 <mjr> my remote control program always ends up as a zombie if I try to launch it from menu, but works fine from command line, with DISPLAY=:0 rem
Aug 04 20:03:25 <mjr> on the Neo, obviously
Aug 04 20:03:36 <Kliment_> mjr: strace it?
Aug 04 20:03:41 <cesarb> SpeedEvil: where on the wiki? (not following things closely enough, sorry)
Aug 04 20:03:45 <mwester> You're right that it's not OpenMoko's problem, but mr. Joe Ignorant, who bought it, doesn't know that -- he just knows that it's broken, and will blog about it -- enough of those injure a company.  And we must not forget that OpenMoko is now a company.
Aug 04 20:04:33 <Kliment_> mwester: it's no different than someone getting a dev version of the N95 before release and telling people about its 5 hour battery life on standby a couple months before release
Aug 04 20:04:47 <mwester> Anyway, I hope they tell us very soon if they are intending to ship the orders, and if so, when.  What annoys me is that they won't respond to my emails about it, and I don't like being "strung along" like this :(
Aug 04 20:05:06 <juri_> patience is a virtue.
Aug 04 20:05:08 <Kliment_> mwester: that I very much agree with
Aug 04 20:05:17 <Kliment_> mwester: communication is critical
Aug 04 20:05:22 <noon> Elrond: wow. how far away from a lock to the satellite are you?
Aug 04 20:05:35 <SpeedEvil> Depends how you define 'lock'.
Aug 04 20:05:42 <cesarb> mwester: probably we all agree with it, but what do we want them to do, use all their time answering emails or ship the damn toy?
Aug 04 20:06:13 <SpeedEvil> We're at the 'sort-of-can detect satellite' stage.
Aug 04 20:06:19 <Elrond> noon - Far away. I can guess dopplers maybe. By doing a doppler scan and doing "expectation value".
Aug 04 20:06:28 <mwester> It takes but 5 minutes to send an announcement, thanking those who purchased the first 1000, and confirming that they indend to ship the second 1000 by a specified date.  How hard is that?
Aug 04 20:06:37 <noon> SpeedEvil: that Elrond can get the data from the satellite: almanache...
Aug 04 20:06:51 <SpeedEvil> No - not almanac.
Aug 04 20:06:55 <Elrond> far away, very far away.
Aug 04 20:06:56 <SpeedEvil> Just doppler.
Aug 04 20:07:10 <SpeedEvil> We have _no_ clue as to how to get the navigation bits out.
Aug 04 20:07:37 <mwester> juri_: patience is a virtue, but it will be an expensive virtue if P2 ships two weeks after the last P1 orders are filled.  If they can't ship until Novemeber, that's fine -- I'd rather be patient for P2 then.
Aug 04 20:07:42 <SpeedEvil> At the moment - if the current technique is extended, we can probably get a 1Km or so accurate position after 16 min of averaging. With a pre-downloaded orbit model.
Aug 04 20:07:52 <SpeedEvil> But this isn't a really good plan :)
Aug 04 20:08:49 <mjr> what, you think people aren't willing to wait around for a quarter of an hour to find out which city they're in?
Aug 04 20:09:09 <SpeedEvil> It's not _totally_ useless - but on the borderline.
Aug 04 20:09:18 <Kliment_> I have a very nice book on GPS here in the other room
Aug 04 20:09:28 <SpeedEvil> Problem isn't so much the books.
Aug 04 20:09:30 <Kliment_> pretty good intro to the math behind it
Aug 04 20:09:36 <SpeedEvil> The format of the data is really well known.
Aug 04 20:09:53 <SpeedEvil> It's how the data is recieved that's fun.
Aug 04 20:09:59 <Kliment_> oh?
Aug 04 20:10:31 <SpeedEvil> Or rather - exactly what the chip protocol is to get it to send us navigation bits - and in what format they are.
Aug 04 20:10:37 <Elrond> Kliment_ - The chip in the neo is on the one side very,very,very basic. All the hard math and algorithms have to be done in userspace.
Aug 04 20:11:09 <SpeedEvil> On the other hand - there is published code to do this.
Aug 04 20:11:10 <Elrond> Kliment_ - And we have to find out, what lowlevel bits are already done in the chips, how they're actually done. And how they're communicated in the protocol to the userspace.
Aug 04 20:11:16 <noon> Kliment_: whats the title and author of the book
Aug 04 20:11:34 <SpeedEvil> The GPS-bits - position solution that is.
Aug 04 20:11:49 <juri_> mwester: just think, hundreds of hackers are working on the software while you wait. :)
Aug 04 20:11:56 <Elrond> Kliment_ - On the other side, it's quite advanced electronics, which does lots of fun.
Aug 04 20:12:10 <SpeedEvil> I would actually expect tens at the most at any one time. :)
Aug 04 20:12:31 <Kliment_> is it easier to write the isbn or do you want author and title, noon
Aug 04 20:12:49 <telconta1> could the positioning data be uploaded to a workstation via ssh to do the GPS calcs?
Aug 04 20:12:56 <SpeedEvil> No real point.
Aug 04 20:13:03 <SpeedEvil> The CPU is easily capable.
Aug 04 20:13:12 <SpeedEvil> My GPS-12 has a 386/16.
Aug 04 20:13:17 <SpeedEvil> Garmin
Aug 04 20:13:21 <telconta1> ah
Aug 04 20:13:34 <Kliment_> isbn 0-471-41655-X
Aug 04 20:13:36 <noon> Kliment_: if the isbn is easier, than that
Aug 04 20:13:36 <Elrond> We probably can do lots of advanced stuff in user space.
Aug 04 20:13:41 <noon> thanks
Aug 04 20:13:52 <telconta1> i thought there was something about the calc being too slow and thats why we needed the A-GPS 
Aug 04 20:14:00 <Kliment_> it has 3 authors and a 4 line title :P
Aug 04 20:14:01 <SpeedEvil> No.
Aug 04 20:14:06 <telconta1> but as you can guess its all a bit vague to me
Aug 04 20:14:07 <Elrond> telconta1 - No.
Aug 04 20:14:20 <Elrond> telconta1 - Read the FAQ on agps on the wiki.
Aug 04 20:14:33 <Kliment_> telconta1: the AGPS allows us to not wait for 12 mins to get an almanac/ephemera
Aug 04 20:14:34 <telconta1> :) def
Aug 04 20:14:44 <SpeedEvil> See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS
Aug 04 20:14:44 <noon> what i thought. to expensive, to buy it just for fun 
Aug 04 20:14:51 <Elrond> Kliment_ - s/12mins/45sec/
Aug 04 20:15:04 <Kliment_> noon: yeah, it's very pricey
Aug 04 20:15:17 <Kliment_> noon: I got the uni I'm at to buy it for their library
Aug 04 20:15:24 <Kliment_> noon: need it for my masters thesis
Aug 04 20:15:38 <SpeedEvil> Kliment_: on?
Aug 04 20:15:42 <Elrond> Kliment_ - What are you doing for master thesis, if you can tell?
Aug 04 20:15:53 <Kliment_> Elrond: radiopositioning :)
Aug 04 20:16:05 <Kliment_> in ad-hoc networks
Aug 04 20:16:30 <Kliment_> using bluetooth for it, but I am having all sorts of hardware problems
Aug 04 20:16:46 <Elrond> Huh, fun. :)
Aug 04 20:16:48 <Kliment_> I'd need a net of 10 or so BT devices that are fully programmable
Aug 04 20:16:56 <SpeedEvil> Fundamentally the lack of accurate timing I'd imagine.
Aug 04 20:17:02 <Kliment_> and I tried building them myself but it's going to hell
Aug 04 20:17:10 <Kliment_> SpeedEvil: using signal intensities for it
Aug 04 20:17:14 <SpeedEvil> Kliment_: have you seen the sparkfun one?
Aug 04 20:17:24 <SpeedEvil> the 2.4Ghz protocol grabber.
Aug 04 20:17:36 <Kliment_> SpeedEvil: not sure, they have several BT things
Aug 04 20:17:42 <Kliment_> SpeedEvil: can you link to it?
Aug 04 20:17:44 <SpeedEvil> basically digitise large chunks of the 2.4Ghz spectrum, and ship it back over USB2
Aug 04 20:17:49 <Kliment_> oh that
Aug 04 20:17:51 <SpeedEvil> It's not a transmitter
Aug 04 20:18:06 <Kliment_> it's like an SDR, only with no transmitter
Aug 04 20:18:12 <Kliment_> not useful to me really
Aug 04 20:18:16 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Aug 04 20:18:21 <noon> SpeedEvil: if Kliment_ lifes in .de he has a lot of fun with customs if he import stuff
Aug 04 20:18:28 <SpeedEvil> Ah.
Aug 04 20:18:34 <Kliment_> noon: I'm moving to .de next month
Aug 04 20:18:46 <noon> SpeedEvil: I got my gps receiver from sparkfun.
Aug 04 20:18:54 <Kliment_> noon: never had a problem moving equipment in or out
Aug 04 20:19:08 <telconta1> really nice work on the wiki re: AGPS thanks
Aug 04 20:19:12 <mjr> Found out why my app wouldn't launch from menu. It expected HOME to be set. Silly me. Should really add code to check from primary sources.
Aug 04 20:19:34 <noon> SpeedEvil: and I had problems, cause 'somebody' copied there database with the creditard informations..
Aug 04 20:19:46 <Kliment_> mjr: can you run powertop on the thing and get me some of the output?
Aug 04 20:21:17 <Kliment_> noon: why would i have a problem in .de?
Aug 04 20:21:29 <SpeedEvil> Kliment_: hacking tools have been banned.
Aug 04 20:21:30 <telconta1> is there any work on "you are connected to this cellsite so you are roughly here" type datafeed?
Aug 04 20:21:32 <Elrond> noon - *G* Do we want to try http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 to see, if the gps antenna is properly connected? ;o)
Aug 04 20:21:50 <noon> Kliment_: I had to go to the nearst harbour where the custom bureau is to pick it up
Aug 04 20:22:00 <Kliment_> noon: I get a few weird looks at the airport when I carry a bunch of debug boards, a boxful of transceivers and two laptops
Aug 04 20:22:03 <SpeedEvil> With a hacking tool being whatever they define it as.
Aug 04 20:22:21 <Kliment_> noon: but I've explained my work and never gotten trouble for it
Aug 04 20:22:39 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - I wonder, if the equipment in our lab counts as hacking tools. ;o)
Aug 04 20:23:48 <noon> Kliment_: I got the receiver by postal srevice
Aug 04 20:25:45 <noon> for the wire I orderd too I had to pay even higher taxes because they are out of copper...
Aug 04 20:26:50 <Kliment_> noon: ah yes postal stuff can be annoying
Aug 04 20:27:58 <Elrond> BTW: Is the gps connector on the neo mmcx or something else?
Aug 04 20:28:00 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Supported_microSD_cards]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Screen_Shots]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Cleveland]] [[Supported_microSD_cards]]
Aug 04 20:29:37 <Kliment_> speaking of silly laws
Aug 04 20:29:48 <Kliment_> mjr: what happened to your CSS case?
Aug 04 20:32:20 <Kliment_> noon: where in .de are you?
Aug 04 20:36:24 <noon> Kliment_: in baden
Aug 04 20:39:29 <Kliment_> I'm moving to köln soon
Aug 04 20:39:51 <Elrond> Kliment_ - Where are you currently?
Aug 04 20:39:56 <Kliment_> Elrond: finland
Aug 04 20:40:44 <noon> Kliment_: >200km away where I life
Aug 04 20:41:06 <Elrond> <-- heads for  dinner. ;-))
Aug 04 20:41:30 <Kliment_> Elrond: what, here?
Aug 04 21:28:56 <CIA-24> openmoko: 03zecke * r2637 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Aug 04 21:28:56 <CIA-24> openmoko: 2007-08-04 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <zecke@selfish.org>
Aug 04 21:28:57 <CIA-24> openmoko:  First version that can fetch feeds again and display some part of the
Aug 04 21:28:57 <CIA-24> openmoko:  message to the user.
Aug 04 21:29:00 <CIA-24> openmoko:  Some how scrolling with MokoFingerScrollView and WebKitGtkPage does not
Aug 04 21:29:02 <CIA-24> openmoko:  work.
Aug 04 21:29:04 <CIA-24> openmoko:  The application is still very raw, beginning with missing icons, to missing
Aug 04 21:46:00 <sagacis_neo> logged in from my neo
Aug 04 21:46:51 <juri_> awsome.
Aug 04 21:47:05 <cesarb> sagacis_neo: then why isn't it showing you IRCing as root? ;-)
Aug 04 21:47:54 <sagacis_neo> I changed my nick.
Aug 04 21:48:20 <sagacis_neo> I'm using sic compiled in the project using the bitbake overlay
Aug 04 21:48:38 <sagacis_neo> It's not really very useful, but it is really tiny
Aug 04 21:48:53 <sagacis_neo>  I'll have to get something better working
Aug 04 21:49:20 <sagacis_neo> and I'm using ssh to be able to type reasonably
Aug 04 21:49:42 <sagacis_neo> /me needs a bluetooth keyboard
Aug 04 21:50:56 <ewanm89_laptop> sagacis_neo: I'm adding multiuser profiles and also has a moddified busybox ipkg with configuratio change. (battery ran out earlier).
Aug 04 21:51:46 <sagacis_neo> ewanm89_laptop: Cool.  I can't understand why we are running as root by default.
Aug 04 21:52:01 <woglinde> jo
Aug 04 21:52:53 <ewanm89_laptop> sagacis_neo: Because noone has thought about how to do it yet?
Aug 04 21:53:11 <sagacis_neo> perhaps
Aug 04 21:58:30 <cesarb> ewanm89_laptop: cool, multiuser profiles would be very useful (for instance, for lending the neo to your parents, without having them confused by your bizarre configuration ideas and strange ringtone settings)
Aug 04 21:59:13 <ewanm89_laptop> cesarb: That's the idea.
Aug 04 21:59:18 <ewanm89_laptop> gtg, bedtime
Aug 04 22:00:33 <ewanm89_laptop> night
Aug 04 22:12:47 <Elrond> SpeedEvil - You have a current probe at the battery, or what?
Aug 04 22:18:15 * Vndmtrx ouvindo Derek Sherinian - Blood of the Snake - Czar of Steel
Aug 04 22:29:00 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973_OpenOCD]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] [[User:Katoh]] [[User:Historybuff/notes]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]]
Aug 04 22:33:25 <henla464_> i can't access http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ 
Aug 04 22:33:49 <henla464_> anyone know it it is just temporary down or the address changed or what?
Aug 04 22:34:16 <borg_> henla464_: it worked 2 hours ago
Aug 04 22:34:22 <borg_> so i think its temporary
Aug 04 22:34:37 <henla464_> borg_: ok, thanks
Aug 04 22:35:49 <borg_> henla464_: do you want the rootfs and the kernel?
Aug 04 22:35:56 <borg_> i can dcc it to you if you want
Aug 04 22:36:30 <henla464_> i'm trying to do 'make qemu'... and it tries to contact buildhost
Aug 04 22:36:39 <borg_> ah ok
Aug 04 22:36:54 <henla464_> thanks anyway
Aug 04 22:37:00 <borg_> then i cant help you, sorry ;)
Aug 04 22:37:00 <cesarb> henla464_: "make qemu" is setup-qemu build-qemu download-images flash-qemu-official run-qemu
Aug 04 22:37:32 <cesarb> henla464_: it probably already made everything before download-images
Aug 04 22:38:04 <cesarb> henla464_: so, if you compiled your own distribution, you can do a "make flash-qemu-local" followed by a "make run-qemu"
Aug 04 22:38:16 <henla464_> cesarb: ok, thanks
Aug 04 22:38:24 <cesarb> henla464_: if you didn't compile the openmoko distribution already, it's better to wait
Aug 04 22:38:33 <henla464_> i did
Aug 04 22:38:37 <cesarb> henla464_: because the compilation can take the better part of a day
Aug 04 22:39:24 <cesarb> henla464_: btw, you should take a look at how the makefile does things... it's quite intuitive (especially if you ignore complex commands and focus on the dependencies)
Aug 04 22:40:02 <cesarb> henla464_: there are a lot of useful/interesting targets, like "run-qemu-snapshot" or "qemu-copy-package-%"
Aug 04 22:40:42 <henla464_> cesarb: i will do that... qemu popped up now with tbe boot menu
Aug 04 22:41:51 <cesarb> rwhitby: how about a "qemu-local" target which is identical to the "qemu" target, but uses flash-qemu-local instead of flash-qemu-official?
Aug 04 22:44:11 <cesarb> henla464_: btw, if you want the official images, you can look at how download-images does it and get them by hand (you just have to put them in the correct directory and touch a magic stamps file IIRC)
Aug 04 23:15:25 <jaebird> ewanm89_laptop: at the very least an unprivileged account needs to be running the gui and dialer, etc
Aug 04 23:19:01 <daMaestro> buildhost down?
Aug 04 23:26:29 <frob> daMaestro: so it seems
Aug 04 23:47:17 <rwhitby> cesarb: added qemu-local target - CIA must have been napping.
Aug 04 23:54:11 <daMaestro> nice, my build works
Aug 04 23:54:27 <daMaestro> (hmm, the build that i told to build... not any of my own code)
Aug 04 23:54:40 <daMaestro> dialer works right away; testing sound now
Aug 04 23:54:44 <juco2> I just had a fun day
Aug 04 23:54:56 <juco2> at BarCampRDU
Aug 04 23:55:04 <juco2> with a nice OpenMoko presentation
Aug 04 23:55:24 <abraxa_> juco2: Will there be a video online soon? :)
Aug 04 23:55:27 <juco2> and then I got home to see that my CC has been charged for the 1973
Aug 04 23:55:45 <juco2> abraxa_: the video guy wasn't at the openmoko talk
Aug 04 23:55:52 <abraxa_> Aww, bummer
Aug 04 23:56:02 <juco2> so that's exciting!
Aug 04 23:56:10 <abraxa_> hehe yesh
Aug 04 23:56:17 <juco2> the hardware is much nicer than I thought it would be
Aug 04 23:56:32 <daMaestro> for a dev device, yea
Aug 04 23:56:37 <daMaestro> gta02 should be really nice
Aug 04 23:58:09 <abraxa_> juco2: Were there any devices present?
Aug 04 23:58:12 <juco2> yup
Aug 04 23:58:18 <abraxa_> ohh nice
Aug 04 23:58:33 <abraxa_> Who held the presentation?
Aug 04 23:58:35 <juco2> I forget the IRC handle, but Wally from Florida drove up with two
Aug 04 23:59:30 <juco2> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events
Aug 04 23:59:34 <juco2> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Writchie
Aug 05 00:00:25 <juco2> the talk generated a lot of excitement
Aug 05 00:01:02 <juco2> an exec from SAS (a big company in the area) was there and very interested in the device
Aug 05 00:01:15 <doc|home> the airline?
Aug 05 00:01:26 <abraxa_> Nice :o
Aug 05 00:01:27 <juco2> http://www.sas.com/
Aug 05 00:02:08 <juco2> you can't tell from their website, but their core business is statistics software
Aug 05 00:02:22 <juco2> they are also one of the largest private companies
Aug 05 00:02:27 <juco2> they have a ton of money
Aug 05 00:03:06 <juco2> well, I really wanted to pop in and report on the event and say "yay" that my CC was charged for the neo
Aug 05 00:03:32 <juco2> goodnight everyone
Aug 05 00:03:44 <abraxa_> Night night
Aug 05 00:04:27 <Vegar> juco2: meh, I thought you meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines
Aug 05 00:04:49 <daMaestro> hmmm my usb hub seems to really get in the way of a lot of stuff with the neo
Aug 05 00:10:21 <abraxa_> daMaestro: How so?
Aug 05 00:13:24 <daMaestro> for example, i can't get the usb networking going when working through the hub
Aug 05 00:13:34 <abraxa_> Ouch
Aug 05 00:14:24 <daMaestro> hmmm
Aug 05 00:14:32 <daMaestro> it might have been the port i was using... this is strange
Aug 05 00:15:07 <daMaestro> yeah, strange.. i changed ports i have the switch plugged into and now it works
Aug 05 00:15:47 <daMaestro> soooo, i've still not gotten a voice call to work
Aug 05 00:16:16 <daMaestro> 'alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore' is all i should have to do right?
Aug 05 00:29:40 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:THe_IkkE]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]]
Aug 05 00:40:30 <daMaestro> how can i play some test sound while trying to get audio working?
Aug 05 00:40:57 <sagacis> I copied an mp3 to the device and ran madplay
Aug 05 00:41:02 <sagacis> You also have ogg123 available.
Aug 05 00:41:09 <sagacis> The ringtones are on there somewhere...
Aug 05 00:41:41 <daMaestro> oh nice.
Aug 05 00:41:48 <daMaestro> i have no mp3s.. ogg +1
Aug 05 00:41:58 <sagacis> Wait a sec...
Aug 05 00:42:35 <sagacis> madplay /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/ringtone_ringnroll.mp3
Aug 05 00:43:17 <sagacis> Got it?
Aug 05 00:43:23 <daMaestro> i do
Aug 05 00:43:25 <daMaestro> thanks.
Aug 05 00:43:31 <sagacis> de nada
Aug 05 00:44:42 <daMaestro> grr... well still no go
Aug 05 00:47:23 <daMaestro> http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmhandset.working.state ... alsactl -f [...] ; madplay /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/ringtone_ringnroll.mp3 and i should hear music?
Aug 05 00:48:22 <ljp> user stereoout.state
Aug 05 00:48:28 <ljp> err use, that is
Aug 05 00:50:45 <daMaestro> wow.. first time my neo has said anything; good work ljp 
Aug 05 00:51:04 <daMaestro> ljp, do you know how i can actually make a voice call with the handset?
Aug 05 00:53:07 <ljp> i think the dialer should work
Aug 05 00:53:23 <daMaestro> it does, but i can't get audio working
Aug 05 00:53:32 <ljp> or do you mean ausio part?
Aug 05 00:53:35 <ljp> audio
Aug 05 00:53:41 <daMaestro> audio.
Aug 05 00:53:47 <ljp> i think its gsmhandset.state
Aug 05 00:54:16 <daMaestro> i should be able to test with madplay still?
Aug 05 00:54:39 <ljp> doubt it, because the internal routing is different.
Aug 05 00:59:13 <sagacis> daMaestro: I think the wolfsonmicro.com state files don't work for our phones
Aug 05 00:59:30 <sagacis> I've been using the ones on the phone.  Not that I've made a pile of phone calls...
Aug 05 00:59:45 <daMaestro> wow
Aug 05 01:00:12 <daMaestro> well i just tried making a call with 'alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore' and my head is still ringing
Aug 05 01:00:38 <sagacis> A bit loud?
Aug 05 01:00:39 <daMaestro> (it just sounded a *really* loud tone; hurt my head)
Aug 05 01:00:42 <sagacis> So, it worked?
Aug 05 01:00:46 <sagacis> Oh, maybe not
Aug 05 01:00:46 <daMaestro> well... it was not a ring
Aug 05 01:00:56 <sagacis> Feedback
Aug 05 01:01:02 <sagacis> You need to turn down the mic or speaker
Aug 05 01:01:27 <noon> sleep well
Aug 05 01:02:26 <daMaestro> sagacis, do you know what mixer channel i need to deal with?
Aug 05 01:02:45 <daMaestro> i think it was pcm?
Aug 05 01:03:37 <daMaestro> holy shit that hurts
Aug 05 01:03:42 <daMaestro> *not pcm*
Aug 05 01:12:26 <daMaestro> yessss... it's the headphone channel
Aug 05 01:12:52 <daMaestro> and it was at 100, which gave the feedback. awesome. first time i have actually had a phone call :-D
Aug 05 01:14:12 * sagacis high-fives daMaestro!
Aug 05 01:14:47 <sagacis> daMaestro, what does the ring sound like?
Aug 05 01:15:19 <daMaestro> so, what's the plan to be able to lock the screen while talking so you don't accidentally close the connection? also, how would one send tones while in a call (aka be able to check voicemail) ?
Aug 05 01:15:43 <daMaestro> sagacis, like the normal us ring; i was calling my other cellular carrier to check my voicemail
Aug 05 01:16:52 <borg_> i have set up openembedded now
Aug 05 01:17:16 <borg_> what exactly do i havte to tell bitbake that it builds OM-2007.2 for me? ;)
Aug 05 01:19:05 <abraxa_> borg_: Can't
Aug 05 01:19:24 <borg_> mh
Aug 05 01:19:39 <abraxa_> The changes for OE to build 2007.2 aren't committed yet as far as I know
Aug 05 01:19:53 <sagacis> people are building it, right?
Aug 05 01:20:07 <abraxa_> Yeah, though manually I suppose
Aug 05 01:20:08 <borg_> i think so
Aug 05 01:20:11 <borg_> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2
Aug 05 01:20:18 <sagacis> daMaestro, I was wondering what an incoming call sounds like
Aug 05 01:20:21 <borg_> here it says "Run bitbake <package name> (e.g. openmoko-devel-image)."
Aug 05 01:20:32 <borg_> but does this actually build OM-2007.2?
Aug 05 01:21:08 <daMaestro> ohh, i've not hear the phone "ring"
Aug 05 01:21:17 <borg_> i can just test it, but it will take half a day....
Aug 05 01:21:17 <borg_> ;)
Aug 05 01:21:17 <daMaestro> heard*
Aug 05 01:26:56 <daMaestro> any way to get vim installed?
Aug 05 01:28:38 <ckuethe> vim on a touchscreen... oy.
Aug 05 01:29:06 <ckuethe> though vim is my preferred editor...
Aug 05 01:32:52 <Kensan> Is buildhost.openmoko.org down?
Aug 05 01:33:15 <daMaestro> was for me
Aug 05 01:33:59 <Kensan> maybe there's some restructuring :)
Aug 05 01:39:52 <daMaestro> ok, awesome... made my first voice call :-D
Aug 05 01:40:52 <daMaestro> Kensan, it's really worth having a local build env
Aug 05 01:41:12 <daMaestro> using mokomakefile is quite easy... but it took me ~15 hours to do the initial build
Aug 05 01:42:14 <rwhitby> some things are worth waiting for ...
Aug 05 01:42:51 <Kensan> daMaestro: Sure, I was just wondering if anybody knew what's up with that server.
Aug 05 01:43:23 <rwhitby> abraxa_, sagacis: I have an nslu2-linux master makefile which can be used to automatically build OE/Angstrom.  Then just change conf/auto.conf to make it build OM2007.2
Aug 05 01:44:17 <abraxa_> rwhitby: Ohh, nice =)
Aug 05 01:50:14 <ZerothCloned> hey all
Aug 05 01:51:00 <ZerothCloned> does anyone know what the prospected range of the wifi antenna will be?
Aug 05 01:51:20 <jaebird> is there a distributed build system in place?
Aug 05 01:51:58 <jaebird> how fast is buildhost.openmoko.org normally?
Aug 05 01:52:10 <rwhitby> abraxa_: I can probably set up ipkg.nslu2-linux.org to build angstrom for fic-gta01
Aug 05 01:53:48 <jaebird> what is the max signal strength reported by the gsm modem?
Aug 05 01:54:05 <abraxa_> rwhitby: Might wanna coordinate such an effort with Mickey since he's busy with the images atm
Aug 05 01:54:35 <rwhitby> abraxa_: if openmoko is building and uploading them, then I wouldn't duplicate
Aug 05 01:54:36 <jaebird> I heard...here on this channel that Mickey is going to try to release 2007.2 within the next 5-7 days
Aug 05 01:56:20 <jaebird> i've been comparing SIP/SIMPLE with XMPP for a presence aware address book...
Aug 05 01:56:46 <jaebird> it seems like xmpp uses less bandwidth
Aug 05 01:57:37 <ZerothCloned> presence aware address book? Basically, something that shows the friends nearby/online at the top?
Aug 05 01:58:05 <jaebird> ZerothCloned: sure..also free SMS via XMPP messaging
Aug 05 01:58:19 <jaebird> on the ml we've been beating around some ideas
Aug 05 01:59:00 <jaebird> obviously configurable...but if on wifi or unlimitted gprs, openmoko could favor xmpp as the communication layer for im and sms type messages
Aug 05 01:59:10 <jaebird> also thinking about avatars too
Aug 05 01:59:16 <ZerothCloned> which mailing list jaebird?
Aug 05 01:59:19 <jaebird> think gtalk
Aug 05 01:59:26 <jaebird> community
Aug 05 01:59:44 <ZerothCloned> ah, okay.
Aug 05 02:00:23 <jaebird> my thoughts were to allow people to register their phone numbers with some xmpp service, this would be used as a lookup table to see if real or fake SMS could be used
Aug 05 02:00:34 <ZerothCloned> well, I had similar ideas, but p2p basis.
Aug 05 02:00:44 <jaebird> there are so many thoughts going through my head...
Aug 05 02:01:05 <jaebird> p2p is also workable, but there needs to be some proxy to keep the connection alive
Aug 05 02:01:06 <ZerothCloned> an easy way, would be to have the phone generate a unique 14 digit acii key, when you "share" your contact info.
Aug 05 02:01:25 <jaebird> exactly...xmpp already contains auth in the spec
Aug 05 02:01:49 <ZerothCloned> then, when one phone contacts another phone, it uses that key to encrypt, whatnot, and the recieving phone can also verify that that number has that specific key
Aug 05 02:01:54 <jaebird> you could "beam" info to each others phones also...like direct voicemail
Aug 05 02:02:05 <ZerothCloned> exactly what I had in mind
Aug 05 02:02:21 <jaebird> we should start to formulate some use cases on the wiki
Aug 05 02:02:58 <jaebird> the issue of the proxy server is for presence
Aug 05 02:03:28 <jaebird> i just traveled cross country (US) listening to an internet radio station while driving...my ip address changed a lot
Aug 05 02:04:04 <ZerothCloned> well, if the phones supported ipv6, that wouldn't be an issue
Aug 05 02:04:06 <jaebird> both SIP and XMPP use a server to maintain presence info
Aug 05 02:04:26 <jaebird> what about the networks? :) that is still a ways of imho
Aug 05 02:04:41 <ZerothCloned> they'd get one ip address, and then when communicating with other phones, use that. Is it possible to do both ipv4 and ipv6?
Aug 05 02:05:05 <daMaestro> sure
Aug 05 02:05:17 <jaebird> the issue is that they use dhcp and you don't know what your going to get
Aug 05 02:05:27 <jaebird> kinda like ddns
Aug 05 02:05:33 <daMaestro> well ipv6 "solves" that issue
Aug 05 02:05:33 <daMaestro> lol
Aug 05 02:05:45 <ZerothCloned> Then why not do that. Then, if networks move over to ipv6, then you truly have presence, no matter where you go.
Aug 05 02:06:07 <jaebird> how do i know what your ipv6 address is so that i can "ping" it?
Aug 05 02:06:17 <jaebird> where will that information be published?
Aug 05 02:06:20 <ZerothCloned> that would be shared in the contact info ;-)
Aug 05 02:06:27 <daMaestro> i doubt we will see ipv6 for quite some time
Aug 05 02:06:31 <jaebird> so it would never change....
Aug 05 02:06:34 <daMaestro> no
Aug 05 02:06:42 <jaebird> i don't buy that
Aug 05 02:06:55 <ZerothCloned> buy what?
Aug 05 02:07:06 <jaebird> the carriers will do whatever they want...
Aug 05 02:07:10 <daMaestro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 ... read
Aug 05 02:07:23 <ZerothCloned> I know... this was discussed on slashdot the other day.
Aug 05 02:07:31 <jaebird> they are not going to give out a static address for a handheld that will never change
Aug 05 02:08:12 <ZerothCloned> the address could be tied to your identity with the carrier.
Aug 05 02:08:43 <jaebird> perhaps
Aug 05 02:08:52 <jaebird> but they already use the sim for that
Aug 05 02:09:22 <rwhitby> most carriers have phones behind nat anyway, so you won't be able to ping another phone
Aug 05 02:09:26 <jaebird> my point is that whatever we do needs to be abstracted from the network layer
Aug 05 02:09:52 <ZerothCloned> I know someone here said that the phones will use 5.6 ghz
Aug 05 02:09:54 <jaebird> reason: when on wifi network, you can use that as your presence connection
Aug 05 02:10:02 <rwhitby> you need a central server outside of the phone network which both phones connect to.
Aug 05 02:10:04 <jaebird> when on the road...gprs, umts, etc
Aug 05 02:10:05 <ZerothCloned> whats the range for the antennas for the antennas?
Aug 05 02:10:16 <ZerothCloned> agh... sorry.
Aug 05 02:10:25 <jaebird> :)
Aug 05 02:10:46 <ZerothCloned> looong day at work. XD
Aug 05 02:11:20 <jaebird> i use an n800 and the contacts app has some features i really like that should work nice in the openmoko paradigm
Aug 05 02:11:26 <jaebird> ie cell phone
Aug 05 02:11:30 <jaebird> which the n800 is not
Aug 05 02:11:45 <ZerothCloned> rwhitby: There is so much commercial potential for this phone... purely because its an open phone. To me, it would be profitable to provide such a server for teenagers/businessmen on the go.
Aug 05 02:12:16 <jaebird> my problem is that i have diarea of the ideas right now :)
Aug 05 02:12:38 <rwhitby> ZerothCloned: absolutely, and anyone can just by an NSLU2 and do it anyway with open source
Aug 05 02:12:53 <ZerothCloned> well, diarrhea of ideas is better than diarrhea of the mouth is what I say.
Aug 05 02:13:06 <jaebird> :) nice
Aug 05 02:13:44 <jaebird> of course, i'm still waiting for my 2g att sim card
Aug 05 02:14:01 <ZerothCloned> lol
Aug 05 02:14:12 <ZerothCloned> do you find the keyboard clunky jaebird?
Aug 05 02:14:28 <jaebird> openmoko?  very
Aug 05 02:14:34 <jaebird> i ssh for now
Aug 05 02:14:40 <ZerothCloned> *nods* Sound idea.
Aug 05 02:14:54 <ZerothCloned> I can't really make any ui designs until I get one in my hands
Aug 05 02:15:06 <jaebird> have you seen the atomik keyboard for palm?
Aug 05 02:16:13 <rwhitby> ZerothCloned: I'm doing the porting of openwrt to devices like the nslu2, which can then be used for distributed openmoko servers.
Aug 05 02:17:08 <jaebird> it stylus based, but allows user to "type" without having to take the pen off of the screen
Aug 05 02:17:36 <ZerothCloned> ooh, very nice
Aug 05 02:17:48 <jaebird> there is some research papers out on that type of entry, some claim 40+ wpm
Aug 05 02:17:59 <ZerothCloned> funded by palm?
Aug 05 02:18:08 <jaebird> no third party app
Aug 05 02:18:28 <ZerothCloned> really? I doubt it ;-)
Aug 05 02:18:30 <jaebird> search for myKbd
Aug 05 02:19:06 <ZerothCloned> I dunno, is a stylus more efficient than fingers?
Aug 05 02:19:25 <jaebird> there is T9 for fingers
Aug 05 02:19:44 <jaebird> standard keypad style alphanumeric entry
Aug 05 02:20:01 <ZerothCloned> *nods* Well, with a stylus, you can use smaller buttons
Aug 05 02:20:14 <ZerothCloned> with fingers, they have to be bigger, and the size of the screen becomes an issue.
Aug 05 02:20:20 <jaebird> i haven't used it, but looks like the idea is worth an adventure
Aug 05 02:21:05 <ZerothCloned> ooh, they're onto a good idea with the hex keys there.
Aug 05 02:21:07 <jaebird> i was thinking as i was trying to use the openmoko keyboard with my fingers is that my fingers get "fairly" close to the intended key
Aug 05 02:21:20 <jaebird> why not use the same dictionary lookup to "correct" any miss types
Aug 05 02:21:29 <ZerothCloned> *nods* Like the iphone does?
Aug 05 02:21:34 <jaebird> does it?
Aug 05 02:21:41 <ZerothCloned> thats what the iphone does.
Aug 05 02:22:01 <ZerothCloned> I work in electronics,and our biggest profit maker is cell-phones ;-) I get access to industry info.
Aug 05 02:22:16 <jaebird> huh..i honestly did NOT know that...i hate it when i think of something independently after someone else
Aug 05 02:22:32 <jaebird> they probably patented it somehow
Aug 05 02:22:36 <ZerothCloned> well, still its a good idea.
Aug 05 02:22:38 <ZerothCloned> likely'
Aug 05 02:23:30 <ZerothCloned> so, anyone know what the range will be on the wifi antennas?
Aug 05 02:23:53 <jaebird> the only info i can provide is what my n800 does.
Aug 05 02:23:55 <rwhitby> ZerothCloned: I'd ask nbd 
Aug 05 02:24:12 <jaebird> it works as good as my laptop, actually seems better sometimes
Aug 05 02:24:17 * nbd doesn't know much about antennas and stuff
Aug 05 02:24:34 <jaebird> so if they use they same "kind" of antenna, the perf should be somewhat similar
Aug 05 02:24:43 <rwhitby> nbd: I thought I saw you check ar6k stuff into svn ... ?
Aug 05 02:24:53 <ZerothCloned> weren't the antennas 5.6ghz?
Aug 05 02:25:07 <jaebird> 5.6GHz?
Aug 05 02:25:10 <nbd> rwhitby: it's not working yet. i'm still hacking on the code
Aug 05 02:25:30 <jaebird> ZerothCloned: for what?
Aug 05 02:25:34 <rwhitby> ZerothCloned: if nbd doesn't know, then I doubt anyone else here will.
Aug 05 02:30:00 <aloril> (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Historybuff/notes]]
Aug 05 02:58:53 <leppoc> hello
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