**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 06 02:59:57 2007 Aug 06 03:01:13 That's quite decent. Aug 06 03:01:17 ETA 19 minutes. Aug 06 03:01:58 it is pretty large for a program Aug 06 03:02:01 but it's also mplayer, so... Aug 06 03:02:22 4519 packages and counting.... man OE is full of stuff Aug 06 03:02:29 alot of it doesn't compile... but still Aug 06 03:02:51 "lots of things don't actually work... but look! we have numbers! NUMBERS, YOU HEAR?!!" Aug 06 03:03:13 is mplayer in there? Aug 06 03:03:26 Is gcc? Aug 06 03:03:50 gcc? Aug 06 03:03:58 of all the apps that don't belong on a phone ~_~ Aug 06 03:04:07 Well. Aug 06 03:04:09 Why not? Aug 06 03:04:14 For _small_ stuff. Aug 06 03:04:27 Like ten line programs to twiddle hardware bits. Aug 06 03:04:59 SpeedEvil: ...gcc is too huge... Aug 06 03:05:10 In what way? Aug 06 03:05:16 * aloril has already coded on the phone, using python though Aug 06 03:05:30 cesarb: 2GB is too small for gcc? Aug 06 03:05:38 you have a large sd card Aug 06 03:05:41 it ships with .5GB D: Aug 06 03:05:47 so ;-) Aug 06 03:05:57 SpeedEvil: just cc1 is already more than 5M Aug 06 03:07:20 I currently compile stuff on my 128M/PII300 laptop Aug 06 03:07:27 ... ouch >_> Aug 06 03:07:44 that's almost neo level ~_~ Aug 06 03:07:53 It's been modded. Aug 06 03:08:00 it still weighs 1.1Kg. Aug 06 03:08:09 But it now has a 6 hour battery life. Aug 06 03:08:15 D: Aug 06 03:08:18 that's pretty nice Aug 06 03:08:20 And I put an internal hub and USB soundcard in place of the old modem. Aug 06 03:08:27 and wifi card Aug 06 03:08:48 I tend to read books on it. Aug 06 03:09:01 As it's not much heavier, and there is none of the 'hold page open' stress. Aug 06 03:09:06 mmh Aug 06 03:09:12 i haven't read an actual book in .. a while Aug 06 03:09:15 And you can'y automatically back-reference on books. Aug 06 03:09:26 or written by hand.. Aug 06 03:09:33 man, my handwriting is terrible Aug 06 03:09:42 so is my signature Aug 06 03:09:52 That's encryption. Aug 06 03:09:56 compounded by the fact that my signed name is supposed to be 18 letters.. i give up about halfway through Aug 06 03:09:59 Or security by obscurity at least. Aug 06 03:10:00 and just squiggle ~_~ Aug 06 03:10:20 a swirly thing Aug 06 03:10:35 * SpeedEvil tries uploading some assorted test mpegs he made to his neo. Aug 06 03:10:48 5.603s vs 38.99s or 7x slower for(j = 0; j < 1000; j++) {for(i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) {arr[i] = i;}} Aug 06 03:11:08 * anrp does an effectively useless comparison Aug 06 03:12:20 qemu-arm ./mplayer-opt-fm -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 03:12:23 BENCHMARKs: VC: 32.087s VO: 0.064s A: 0.000s Sys: 2.092s = 34.243s Aug 06 03:12:26 mplayer -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 03:12:28 BENCHMARK%: VC: 93.7026% VO: 0.1867% A: 0.0000% Sys: 6.1107% = 100.0000% Aug 06 03:12:29 BENCHMARKs: VC: 3.572s VO: 0.010s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.653s = 4.235s Aug 06 03:12:29 BENCHMARK%: VC: 84.3414% VO: 0.2469% A: 0.0000% Sys: 15.4117% = 100.0000% Aug 06 03:12:31 vs! Aug 06 03:12:44 that is a completely pointless benchmark, since i'm just testing qemu Aug 06 03:13:57 it is peripherally interesting though Aug 06 03:14:03 in some vague sense Aug 06 03:14:11 somehow... Aug 06 03:14:13 ... not really Aug 06 03:14:39 I'm downloading mplayer - not the source - this time :) Aug 06 03:14:56 I've got some test files in various codecs. Aug 06 03:15:02 and various resolutions. Aug 06 03:15:09 since its old i don't know how much recent stuff it'll support Aug 06 03:15:15 namely, h.264 is right out Aug 06 03:15:18 mpeg1 isn't recent. Aug 06 03:15:24 oh .. heh Aug 06 03:15:41 Do you think it'll do 8*6 h.264? :) Aug 06 03:16:06 i don't think h264 in ffmpeg existed back in '05, sadly ;/ Aug 06 03:16:23 7.243s vs 68.64s or 9x slower: use above innermost loop for initialization and then same code, except innermost loop: arr[i] += arr[i+1]; Aug 06 03:16:40 memory access penalty Aug 06 03:16:56 you're probably making branch prediction fail every time with something like that Aug 06 03:17:24 stuff like 50/70/140 kbit mpeg1 or mpeg4 codec Aug 06 03:17:28 oh and it does look like we have gcc.... Aug 06 03:17:46 binutils? Aug 06 03:18:08 well.. plain loop: about 10x, plain memory access: 10x, but grep 100x slower (roughly) Aug 06 03:18:22 yup bintuils looks go Aug 06 03:18:42 BryceLeo: cool! Aug 06 03:19:12 It's a race! First native mokomakefile build :) Aug 06 03:19:17 lol it's been building for a day and a half and yet it's only 396mb Aug 06 03:19:34 LMAO Aug 06 03:19:37 that would be awesome Aug 06 03:19:58 battvolt: 3837 chgcur: 2160 chgmode: fast_cccv battemp: 15 Aug 06 03:20:17 that batttemp value seems bogus. is something up with the hw? Aug 06 03:20:39 I think the calibration curve is off. Aug 06 03:20:50 Most reports have the temp as 10c or so under what it should be. Aug 06 03:21:08 I intend to check the calibration of the neo measuring circuit manually - with several resistors Aug 06 03:26:57 err - what's the vo device it's using. Aug 06 03:27:08 by default..? Aug 06 03:27:09 It displayed overlayed and quite messed up. Aug 06 03:27:21 it doesn't have X, so it's probably framebuffer Aug 06 03:28:05 mm might be sdl Aug 06 03:28:12 using fb Aug 06 03:28:50 100kbps video 160*120 25fps pretty much works Aug 06 03:29:23 does the default neo kernel use EABI? Aug 06 03:29:50 well, neo system as well Aug 06 03:30:13 mpeg2 is maybe a _little_ better - 5% or so slow Aug 06 03:31:07 Oooh. Aug 06 03:31:18 mplayer uses _10%_ CPU for mp3s Aug 06 03:31:40 anrp: # CONFIG_AEABI is not set Aug 06 03:31:41 probably using libmad (should output it) Aug 06 03:31:44 agh ok ~_~ Aug 06 03:32:03 comparing madplay on same file Aug 06 03:32:13 and it's about 17% Aug 06 03:32:29 huh? Aug 06 03:32:31 now that's weird Aug 06 03:32:41 but good wierd. Aug 06 03:32:43 indeed Aug 06 03:32:56 i did some funny tricks to the gcc used to compile that Aug 06 03:33:05 to enfore soft-float VFP (gcc doesn't do that usually) Aug 06 03:33:15 that might have helped.. although mad isn't FP anyway ? Aug 06 03:33:32 anrp: you could try compiling the whole distro with EABI Aug 06 03:33:33 Hmm. Aug 06 03:33:40 Turning it all up gets quite loud. Aug 06 03:33:44 anrp: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Compiling_for_EABI Aug 06 03:33:45 surprisingly so. Aug 06 03:33:58 well it was built from uclibc Aug 06 03:34:04 i like their buildroot a lot.. Aug 06 03:34:05 isn't ogg about similar speed than mp3 with integer codec? (assuming ogg123 is some kind of fp) Aug 06 03:35:03 Hmm. Aug 06 03:35:05 if the ogg decoder uses tremor Aug 06 03:35:09 == integer Aug 06 03:35:10 I have video playing with 40% CPU Aug 06 03:35:12 libmad is also integer Aug 06 03:35:19 And an actual picture. Aug 06 03:35:24 SpeedEvil: mplayer? Aug 06 03:35:25 SpeedEvil: -benchmark will tell you how much time is taken in the VO and how much in the VC Aug 06 03:35:27 yes. Aug 06 03:35:35 cool Aug 06 03:35:43 -vo fbdev2 and then -vo fbdev seemed to get it working. Aug 06 03:35:46 Downside. Aug 06 03:35:57 160*120 non-stretched picture. Aug 06 03:35:59 ;/ it was originally for a zaurus Aug 06 03:36:20 so, it needs a little work Aug 06 03:36:35 or more likely, a lot of work Aug 06 03:36:41 actually. Aug 06 03:36:42 that's more of a hw limit Aug 06 03:36:45 that was 300kbit Aug 06 03:36:52 there isn't any YUV accel for instance Aug 06 03:37:02 although apparantly the LCM can take a 320x240 input signal Aug 06 03:38:41 that might (really big maybe there) be triggerable from that mplayer with its fbdev driver Aug 06 03:38:56 if the kernel your neo has has the 320x240 mode switching code Aug 06 03:39:18 don't thinks so Aug 06 03:42:49 :):):):) Aug 06 03:42:53 Random video Aug 06 03:42:54 VIDEO: MPEG1 352x240 (aspect 1) 24.000 fps 1536.0 kbps (192.0 kbyte/s) Aug 06 03:43:04 works just fine. Aug 06 03:43:09 wow Aug 06 03:44:23 that's pretty good Aug 06 03:44:30 that's with 32kbit mp3 Aug 06 03:44:36 ill see about compiling an up to date one with gcc4.2.1 Aug 06 03:44:38 I only did a short test Aug 06 03:44:51 doing a longer one now. Aug 06 03:45:19 i so called it Aug 06 03:45:27 However. This is completely adequate performance, without even special recoding. At least for non-rotated. Aug 06 03:45:42 * anrp is a bit surprised Aug 06 03:45:47 Me too. Aug 06 03:45:48 i sooo called it Aug 06 03:46:05 I've been saying it should work just fine for some time now. Aug 06 03:46:19 there was that whole thing on themailing list way back when.... lol speed you musta been the only guy who agreed with me Aug 06 03:46:38 People forget how fast slow computers are. Aug 06 03:47:42 SpeedEvil: exactly i remember playing mpeg1 video on my pentium 133 Aug 06 03:49:50 and codecs and optomization have come a long way since then Aug 06 03:49:58 It's borderline enough that running top kicks it over the edge into losing time. Aug 06 03:50:37 SpeedEvil: yup as I said it seems only 10x slower which is pretty fast ;-) Aug 06 03:51:28 lol Aug 06 03:52:04 aloril i remember the cutting edege of 8 bit gaming! Aug 06 03:52:10 well... 8 color that is Aug 06 03:52:46 well... i don't quite remember it, my first real gaming experience was 16 color, Round42.... now that's an awesome game Aug 06 03:52:48 Ok - 4 min vid - no problems. Aug 06 03:52:52 as I said in past, it should be able to easily handle 100 text terminals Aug 06 03:53:08 ie.. what required mainframes back then Aug 06 03:55:03 aloril that sounds like a fair number Aug 06 03:56:00 why the heck would you want Dia on an embedded device...? Aug 06 03:56:23 Dia? Aug 06 03:58:19 LOL (I can't see the begining of the discussion, but) as BryceLeo say: Dia on an embedded device ????? Aug 06 03:58:36 I want Eclipse ! Aug 06 03:58:58 SpeedEvil: yes Dia... a diagraming/flowcharting program Aug 06 03:59:02 well, I think it's a nice program to make drawings, like a map Aug 06 03:59:09 lol leppoc why?? when cross compiling is sooo simple Aug 06 03:59:25 leppoc: but but... why don't people just make xournal compile (i love that app) Aug 06 03:59:36 xournal ? Aug 06 03:59:43 let me see what that is... Aug 06 03:59:52 oh ! Aug 06 03:59:59 xournal is sweet Aug 06 04:00:06 if you've got a tablet it's pretty nice Aug 06 04:00:16 I knew Jarnal before :) Aug 06 04:00:40 I like the (only one) screenshot :) Aug 06 04:00:55 anrp: ok to mention that URL on the community list? Aug 06 04:01:56 anyone know how to rerun the calibration program? Aug 06 04:03:16 erm Aug 06 04:03:20 one second Aug 06 04:03:44 Ok - I'll leave it out Aug 06 04:03:56 nah its ok Aug 06 04:04:00 just wanted to check it Aug 06 04:04:05 like i said, its been forever.. Aug 06 04:04:07 fine to post it Aug 06 04:04:29 i'm rebuilding with softvfp gcc 4.2.1 but it'll probably be tomorrow before its done Aug 06 04:05:01 xzcvczx: i think its /etc/X11/Xsession.d/30xTs_Calibrate Aug 06 04:05:17 but i am not completly sure Aug 06 04:05:28 do you have ssh access? Aug 06 04:05:34 borg_: yup Aug 06 04:05:40 try "export DISPLAY=:1" Aug 06 04:05:47 "/etc/X11/Xsession.d/30xTs_Calibrate" Aug 06 04:05:56 :1 ? Aug 06 04:06:00 UPS Aug 06 04:06:02 :0 :) Aug 06 04:06:19 on my pc it is :1 Aug 06 04:06:24 getting confused all the time Aug 06 04:06:55 * anrp throws an Xvnc on :1 to give borg_ something to connect to D: Aug 06 04:07:48 07:07:28 up 1:58, load average: 60.84, 43.86, 21.45 Aug 06 04:08:16 * xzcvczx gives SpeedEvil a beer Aug 06 04:08:23 you are getting loaded.. D: Aug 06 04:08:23 a bit sluggish, but editing, etc.. works ok Aug 06 04:09:20 started some 70 shells with: "while true; do echo $1; sleep 1; done" Aug 06 04:09:40 anrp: nope not that Aug 06 04:09:43 forkbomb D: Aug 06 04:09:46 Neo1973 of course ;-) Aug 06 04:10:12 wow, one of my disks just resonated loudly Aug 06 04:10:17 just wondering about those 100 terminals, I think doing stuff as was done at past should work on Neo1973 Aug 06 04:10:51 anrp: but thanks i now know how to do it Aug 06 04:11:05 ..? Aug 06 04:11:11 i lost track of that conversation Aug 06 04:11:31 anrp: just have to delete /etc/pointercal Aug 06 04:11:46 you sure you're talking to me? ~_~ Aug 06 04:11:54 i think you mean borg_ Aug 06 04:11:54 sorry lol Aug 06 04:11:57 yeah Aug 06 04:12:01 its too early in the morning Aug 06 04:12:09 early? it's late! Aug 06 04:12:15 * anrp us-blinders-on Aug 06 04:12:19 anrp: not when you are from nz Aug 06 04:12:25 well actually your right it is its 4pm Aug 06 04:12:27 but meh Aug 06 04:12:31 ... Aug 06 04:14:14 'early morning' indeed Aug 06 04:14:21 it's almost time to finish work Aug 06 04:16:03 * xzcvczx replaces SpeedEvil's beer with a dozen Aug 06 04:17:22 :) Aug 06 04:17:38 morning, late? it's lunchtime here. Aug 06 04:17:50 and midnight here... Aug 06 04:18:21 hence ugt Aug 06 04:21:47 ei SpeedEvil, have you tried the benchmark option? Aug 06 04:22:02 best to turn off sound, causes the video to run as fast as possible (-ao null) Aug 06 04:22:09 and -ac null Aug 06 04:25:46 can someone just paste their /etc/pointercal in here i just want to make sure that mine is done reasonably correctly Aug 06 04:26:50 88 36482 -2769104 -48193 -245 45423752 65536 Aug 06 04:27:01 gonna be highly device specific Aug 06 04:27:15 SpeedEvil: yup i know that Aug 06 04:27:22 does the default build use NPTL? Aug 06 04:28:04 SpeedEvil: just that my stylus gets incredibly unaccurate getting towards the edge of the screen like stays a good quater down the screen Aug 06 04:28:31 SpeedEvil: i am going to try flashing an old firmware on see how that works Aug 06 04:28:58 xzcvczx: is there crap (dust etc) between the screen bezel and screen? Aug 06 04:29:49 anrp: no just cleared that out as before an hour ago i think i had that and ts wasnt working at all at i always got output from cat touchscreen now i get nothing from cat touchscreen unless i am touching the screen Aug 06 04:30:52 mplayer-opt-fm plays ogg file at about 11% CPU usage Aug 06 04:31:21 Nother video benchmark - 624 x 352 mpeg1 - about 7fps. Aug 06 04:31:34 General impressions. Aug 06 04:31:47 VCD stuff works if it's 25fps, not generally if it's 30. Aug 06 04:31:57 that video benchmaark: - MPlayer crashed by an 'Illegal Instruction'. It usually happens when you run it on a CPU different than the one it was compiled/optimized for. Aug 06 04:32:08 with RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi Aug 06 04:32:11 If it's low-bitrate - say 90-100K/s, not 150, then 30fps works Aug 06 04:32:35 Unless it's got 220K audio or something similar Aug 06 04:32:46 that's 90-100kbytes/s video Aug 06 04:33:56 anyway, so ogg is ok like mp3: both around 10% I think? Aug 06 04:34:01 Yep. Aug 06 04:34:25 aloril: try turning off vo and ao? Aug 06 04:34:30 -vo null -ao null Aug 06 04:34:39 if -vc null fixes it then there's something pxa255 specific in there Aug 06 04:34:42 i have a good idea what Aug 06 04:34:52 ./mplayer-opt-fm -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 04:35:16 ;/ guess only libmpeg2 based codecs are working on the neo then Aug 06 04:35:25 SpeedEvil: does it say libmpeg2 for mpeg1/mpeg2 decoder? Aug 06 04:35:39 Opening video decoder: [libmpeg2] MPEG 1/2 Video decoder libmpeg2-v0.4.0b Aug 06 04:36:47 yeah, makes sense Aug 06 04:36:59 that particular binary is using stuff from intel's IPP for pxa25x Aug 06 04:37:13 but only libavcodec based things use those optimizations Aug 06 04:37:32 i'll rebuild with less deps Aug 06 04:37:51 might be tomorrow though ~_~ Aug 06 04:38:16 actually.. Aug 06 04:38:29 you might be able to bypass it Aug 06 04:38:30 * anrp thinks Aug 06 04:39:23 try -lavdopts idct=7 Aug 06 04:39:41 or =2 Aug 06 04:41:07 how do you clear the flash to flash a new image on? Aug 06 04:44:18 you don't Aug 06 04:44:22 you just flash it over Aug 06 04:44:24 Hmm. Aug 06 04:44:49 Rotation is quite costly - at least in mplayer. 1.4* the CPU Aug 06 04:45:15 it's a lot of memory shuffling, sadly Aug 06 04:45:30 6MB/s for 352x240 24fps video Aug 06 04:45:38 then a totally out of order access pattern to rotate Aug 06 04:46:40 considering we only have 100mb/s (I think?) of memory bandwidth... Aug 06 04:46:57 that's actually an easy check, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1000 Aug 06 04:47:09 600M/s in theory Aug 06 04:47:15 0.332s vs 5.024s: 15x slower Aug 06 04:47:35 so 200mb/s effective Aug 06 04:47:37 for one video Aug 06 04:47:46 133Mhz memory bus, and 4 byte wide Aug 06 04:47:47 er, what were those #s from? Aug 06 04:48:17 It's a 133Mhz SDRAM. Aug 06 04:48:23 @ aloril Aug 06 04:48:25 The memory clock can go at 1/2 CPU Aug 06 04:48:26 sorry Aug 06 04:48:28 oh Aug 06 04:48:48 mm my desktop has about 10.1GB/s Aug 06 04:48:51 On a brighter note - -framedrop on mplayer makes it quite happy with moderately 'too large' CPUs. Aug 06 04:49:26 and my laptop.. 24.4gb/s Aug 06 04:49:31 huh? that can't be right ~_~ Aug 06 04:50:15 It'll play 624*352 video at arounf 5fps with framedrop - but stay in sync Aug 06 04:50:25 anrp: well - no. Aug 06 04:50:34 anrp: 720x576 MPEG1 about 400-500KB/s, sound 224.0 kbit/s Aug 06 04:50:37 anrp: you have what in there - DDR? Aug 06 04:50:43 in the desktop? Aug 06 04:50:44 um... Aug 06 04:50:46 ddr2 Aug 06 04:50:52 laptop is a core2, so whatever that takes Aug 06 04:51:13 desktop is a p4 resistive heater type cpu Aug 06 04:51:15 24 is probably a little high - but of the right order Aug 06 04:52:00 aloril: how long? Aug 06 04:52:17 oh did that -lavdopts fix it? Aug 06 04:52:28 38 second video decoded in 5s Aug 06 04:52:49 ?? Aug 06 04:52:55 on .. the neo? Aug 06 04:53:30 fyi, -vc null turns off the video decoder so any benchmark with that is .. not very useful ~_~ Aug 06 04:53:37 yes, on Neo Aug 06 04:53:45 so its display, not decoding ;-) Aug 06 04:53:50 ah... Aug 06 04:54:02 did you try the idct opt? Aug 06 04:54:09 curious-I installed the 8/1 build of openmoko, was that lacking all modules? Aug 06 04:54:30 ./mplayer-opt-fm -ao null -vo null test.mpeg -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 04:54:39 bc I have been unable to access the sd card Aug 06 04:54:47 oh, you're doing an mpeg[12] video Aug 06 04:54:53 yes Aug 06 04:55:01 i was wondering if you could try the mpeg4 with the -lavdopts idct=2 Aug 06 04:55:06 see if it still dies Aug 06 04:55:39 yes: MPlayer interrupted by signal 4 in module: decode_video Aug 06 04:55:53 ./mplayer-opt-fm -lavdopts idct=2 -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 04:56:17 hmm Aug 06 04:56:19 ok, thanks Aug 06 04:56:57 moin Aug 06 04:58:03 any ideas? Aug 06 04:58:20 .. Aug 06 04:58:31 oi. when did a system call named "syscall" appear in linux ~_~ Aug 06 04:58:39 curious-I installed the 8/1 build of openmoko, was that lacking all modules? Aug 06 04:58:51 anrp: VIDEO: ÄXVIDÜ 640x480 24bpp 25.000 fps 677.9 kbps (82.8 kbyte/s) Aug 06 04:58:55 bc I have been unable to access the sd card Aug 06 04:58:56 plays with idct=7 Aug 06 04:59:05 but not 2? (or untried) Aug 06 04:59:19 maybe there's something about that file in my dir Aug 06 04:59:36 ciphercast222_: dmesg | egrep -i 'mmc|sd' say much? Aug 06 05:00:27 I am away from the phone atm, but the /dev/card does not show up Aug 06 05:00:32 erg Aug 06 05:00:58 I reseated the card (it was off) but still no luck Aug 06 05:01:18 mm well its hard to say without looking at the kernel output (I haven't used the new image) Aug 06 05:01:37 anrp: 1,7 work Aug 06 05:01:40 2-6 don't Aug 06 05:01:46 huh Aug 06 05:01:53 that's .. a bit odd, but ok Aug 06 05:02:10 actually, that makes sense Aug 06 05:02:19 except for #2 Aug 06 05:02:23 2 should work Aug 06 05:02:47 Doesn't. Aug 06 05:02:51 MPlayer interrupted by signal 4 in module: decode_video Aug 06 05:03:05 anrp: thx, I'll take a look @ it. Aug 06 05:03:29 alright Aug 06 05:05:43 SpeedEvil: did it work with -lavdopts unspecified? Aug 06 05:05:57 no Aug 06 05:07:36 ok ~_~ Aug 06 05:11:17 6.212s vs 73.061s: 12x: ./mplayer-opt-fm -lavdopts idct=7 -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 05:11:45 73 is fast enough for realtime! Aug 06 05:11:56 since its 130 some long Aug 06 05:12:24 kill Xfbdev, then run it with -vo fbdev2 Aug 06 05:12:29 then -vo fbdev Aug 06 05:12:58 that sequencing is a bit strange Aug 06 05:13:03 but i guess to be expected? ~_~ Aug 06 05:13:30 I'm astonished it works at all Aug 06 05:14:12 If the backlight cuts out - the only way I've found to restart it is to do Xfbdev, then kill it. Aug 06 05:14:26 man, that is a massive hack ~_~ Aug 06 05:15:33 aw crap, fortran build breaks gcc Aug 06 05:16:35 yeah, -vo fbdev seems to work Aug 06 05:18:03 so just need to (pre)rotate and use 320x240 and it plays mpeg4 Aug 06 05:18:41 Another hack. Aug 06 05:19:10 Take a sheet of 40cm*40cm or so thick cardboard, cut a 2*6cm or so slot out of it. Aug 06 05:19:21 Jam the top of the neo through. Aug 06 05:19:24 over 6h of video on 2GB card (82KBytes/s) Aug 06 05:19:31 The speakers sound much better now. Aug 06 05:19:58 The not really infinite baffle. Aug 06 05:21:23 If only decent video could be done at 5K/s. Aug 06 05:23:26 hmmm i think there is something actually wrong with my touchscreen now.... after 2 calibrations, old firmware image .... taken off the cover and cleaned it, and with cat /dev/input/touchscreen0 it only prints stuff when i touch the screen it wont work towards the bottom and top edges of the screen it thinks i have tapped in the middle Aug 06 05:24:12 Sounds possible. Aug 06 05:24:17 :( Aug 06 05:24:32 SpeedEvil: you got any other hints Aug 06 05:24:39 Not really. Aug 06 05:25:44 so you reckon just post on the community forums outlining my situation? Aug 06 05:25:52 Pretty much Aug 06 05:26:20 ok thanks. Aug 06 05:27:06 does anyone know why I can't find any ipk files for *-native packages? Aug 06 05:27:24 maybe I don't need them Aug 06 05:37:35 battvolt: 4001 chgcur: 1946 chgmode: fast_cccv battemp: 21 Aug 06 05:40:15 ok Aug 06 05:41:21 (i'm back) turns out I watched the boot process, came up with three things that were not in dmesg Aug 06 05:41:49 all leading to me thinking that the modules were not in the build Aug 06 05:42:00 "warning: cannot read /lib/modules/2.6.21.6-moko11/ no such file or directory Aug 06 05:42:00 fatal: cannot write to /lib/modules/2.6.21.6-moko11/ modules.dep.temp no such file or directory Aug 06 05:42:00 configuring network interface: modprobe fatal: no /lib/modules/2.6.21.6-moko11/modules.dep" Aug 06 05:42:31 mrface: -native packages are build on the build system to support the build process itself; they are not intended for installation on the target device. Aug 06 05:43:27 ciphercast222_: try depmod -a ? Aug 06 05:43:37 mwester: thanks for the explanation Aug 06 05:43:39 .... Aug 06 05:43:41 nooo Aug 06 05:43:48 never do a make install with libc Aug 06 05:44:04 * anrp curses Aug 06 05:44:14 Oooh - yeah, that could be bad. Aug 06 05:44:56 thankfully only pthreads broke Aug 06 05:45:03 yeah it "could" be bad in most cases Aug 06 05:45:11 but it *is* bad when you make install a different arch! Aug 06 05:45:57 that was bloody stupid Aug 06 05:46:46 mrwester: "WARNING: Couldn't open dir /lib/modules/2.6.21.6-moko11/" Aug 06 05:47:35 does your image kernel version and actual kernel version match? Aug 06 05:47:48 "FATAL: couldn't open /lib/modules/2.6.21.6-moko11/ modules.dep" Aug 06 05:48:13 i.e. /proc/version match what shows up in /lib/modules/ Aug 06 05:50:31 in /lib/modules, I have ...-moko10 and /proc/version or uname -a gives me ...-moko11 Aug 06 05:50:51 which is obviously a problem... Aug 06 05:53:02 I flashed the following: Aug 06 05:53:04 openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070728081358.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 06 05:53:13 uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 06 05:54:40 as well as uboot: u-boot-gta01bv4-r11_e80955f07de03fef0196353e77534b2300193c1c_0_2348.bin Aug 06 05:55:07 i guess that image wasn't updated/rebuilt with the new/right kernel Aug 06 05:55:23 ciphercast222_: you will have to update the ipkg's when buildhost comes back up Aug 06 05:55:27 mm why did my toolchain get the eabi, i asked for the oabi Aug 06 05:55:30 ~_? Aug 06 05:55:31 it has been said that _ is ALT-255 Aug 06 05:56:00 btw.. I peeked behind screen protector with stylus: no difference in jitter compared to trough factory installed screen protector Aug 06 05:56:02 lies Aug 06 05:56:02 !! Aug 06 05:56:18 not to you, aloril Aug 06 05:56:54 SpeedEvil, aloril: can one of you try http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/hello_world Aug 06 05:57:05 another statically linked program but it got built with eabi (??) Aug 06 05:57:09 wondering if it'll still work Aug 06 05:57:19 btw.. it does this way with double touches: it goes to middle of them Aug 06 05:57:59 or 3 fingers or .. Aug 06 05:59:23 anrp: thx for the help, another question; the wiki lacks information about the different current openmoko revisions, where in the svn branch is the latest openmoko source? Aug 06 05:59:40 wee, the second batch seems to be starting to move forwards Aug 06 05:59:57 * xkr47 got charged this weekend Aug 06 06:01:10 can someone try typing in 'xtscal -view' in om? Aug 06 06:01:11 i would guess trunk, but i don't really know Aug 06 06:01:50 root@fic-gta01:~$ xtscal -view Aug 06 06:01:50 TS_GET_CAL: Invalid argument Aug 06 06:01:57 ok thanks Aug 06 06:02:03 ok, i'm going to give building the images a shot Aug 06 06:02:19 root@fic-gta01:~$ ./hello_world Aug 06 06:02:19 Illegal instruction Aug 06 06:02:30 (above for anrp ) Aug 06 06:02:37 alright. ~_~ Aug 06 06:02:48 pos Aug 06 06:02:55 lol Aug 06 06:05:55 guess i want -march=apcs-gnu Aug 06 06:06:00 * anrp rebuilds everything -_- Aug 06 06:32:53 backlight (several steps): /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl Aug 06 06:33:23 yay, got the oabi (== GNU EABI != EABI) ... Aug 06 06:33:29 vibrator (only on/off?): /sys/class/leds/gta01:vibrator/brightness Aug 06 06:34:02 == apcs-gnu Aug 06 06:35:49 06 07:44 < anrp> never do a make install with libc Aug 06 06:36:04 anrp: I would rather say: never EVER build software as root Aug 06 06:36:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Current_events]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 06 06:37:06 OMG OMG OMG ! my first compilation is done and works :D Aug 06 06:37:10 (sory ;) ) Aug 06 06:37:23 well Aug 06 06:37:28 i'd agree Aug 06 06:37:34 it was still a major fuckup Aug 06 06:37:44 'm installing an arm libc that isn't even glibc onto an x86 system with glibc Aug 06 06:37:45 leppoc: Why be sorry - it's a personal triumph. Good work. Aug 06 06:37:46 or, was Aug 06 06:37:51 thankfully, everything immediately broke Aug 06 06:37:52 :D Aug 06 06:37:55 so i only had to fix pthreads Aug 06 06:38:27 how's that for sad? Aug 06 06:39:05 anrp: for such builds I prefer OpenEmbedded - less things to worry Aug 06 06:41:17 vibrator isn't very powerful though Aug 06 06:41:22 true, but i'm just trying out a quicky with uclibc Aug 06 06:41:34 anyone remember what was said to be the package weight of a single base neo ? Aug 06 06:41:37 anyway, aloril (or anyone) can you try to run http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/hello_world2 Aug 06 06:41:40 ? Aug 06 06:41:55 thats with OABI, softvfp Aug 06 06:42:10 anrp: and uclibc is also nice handled Aug 06 06:42:22 it is Aug 06 06:42:39 however the build i'm doing is slightly broken for the arm target which lead me into building uclibc by hand Aug 06 06:42:45 and automatically, make, make install Aug 06 06:42:53 and boom Aug 06 06:42:57 * anrp thinks, "idiot" Aug 06 06:43:12 root@fic-gta01:~$ ./hello_world2 Aug 06 06:43:12 Illegal instruction Aug 06 06:43:17 .. Aug 06 06:43:20 hrm Aug 06 06:43:57 aloril, you overclocker ;) Aug 06 06:44:23 try http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/hello_world3 Aug 06 06:44:24 ? Aug 06 06:44:29 thats arm720t target Aug 06 06:45:05 xkr47: i have seen 1.9lbs and 2.0lbs Aug 06 06:45:14 also http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/hello_world4 , explicitly set arm920t Aug 06 06:45:21 * anrp throws a bunch more hello worlds around Aug 06 06:45:25 ok thx xzcvczx Aug 06 06:46:01 anrp: 3: Illegal instruction Aug 06 06:46:27 agh Aug 06 06:46:29 why ... Aug 06 06:46:47 anrp: 4: Illegal instruction Aug 06 06:47:13 you wouldn't happen to have gdb would you? Aug 06 06:48:16 it seems to be installed: Program received signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction. __udivsi3 () at /home/arm/buildroot/toolchain_build_arm_nofpu/gcc-4.2.1/gcc/config/arm/lib1funcs.asm:364 Aug 06 06:48:36 I have the graphics broken under Xnest. on this (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo) page, it is said to add a user messagebus, etc... Aug 06 06:48:43 huh? Aug 06 06:48:45 wait a sec Aug 06 06:49:04 do I have to do that on my computer, or in my chrooted environment (aka mokobox) ? Aug 06 06:50:09 anrp: this is openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 06 06:50:11 is it the same place for hello_world2 ? Aug 06 06:50:17 i should flash mine Aug 06 06:51:05 yes Aug 06 06:51:34 agh Aug 06 06:51:35 wtf? Aug 06 06:51:46 i told it 920T in the build, but it's building for 944 Aug 06 06:51:56 er 946 Aug 06 06:52:26 3 too, 1 is: warning: shared library handler failed to enable breakpoint\nProgram received signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction.\n0x0000ca08 in ?? () Aug 06 06:52:49 anrp: umm.. you have Neo1973? Aug 06 06:53:40 i do.. however, it has a dead battery Aug 06 06:53:49 which is one heck of a bad reason to not use it Aug 06 06:53:53 its also not at work though Aug 06 06:56:30 great. rebuilding again Aug 06 06:56:39 * anrp appends --with-arch=armv4t Aug 06 06:57:01 umm.. just leave it connected to PC that can give 500mA when requested? Aug 06 06:58:11 i have to bring it back to work, it has old u-boot Aug 06 06:58:22 have a decent ps at work Aug 06 06:59:04 sorry if i keep asking stuff from you... SpeedEvil seemed to wander off ~_~ Aug 06 07:00:25 and i would like to be doing it on mine Aug 06 07:00:26 anrp: 'old u-boot'? you have phase0 device? Aug 06 07:00:41 well, it won't accept a charge from full off, so I assume its old u-boot Aug 06 07:00:53 but i can't say that for sure... Aug 06 07:00:54 anrp: then do not assume Aug 06 07:01:15 since i've got to give the battery some juice by hand Aug 06 07:01:22 anrp: take off battery, usb cable. put battery back, connect usb, then connect to 500mA usb port and leave for few hours Aug 06 07:01:41 mm? Aug 06 07:01:44 i shall try that Aug 06 07:01:56 anrp: uboot with power problem was only in phase0 devices - months ago Aug 06 07:02:00 you should Aug 06 07:02:18 goes to show why one should pay more attention Aug 06 07:04:23 "Sold out!" ... "This means that any orders placed now will not be shipping before September 10, 2007." https://direct.openmoko.com/ Aug 06 07:04:30 ouch Aug 06 07:04:47 wow. is that good or bad ? :) Aug 06 07:04:50 well.. actually, that's only a month away Aug 06 07:04:53 so not so bad Aug 06 07:04:55 but still ~_~ Aug 06 07:05:25 it would be worse if they had only few devices bought ;) Aug 06 07:06:41 (script) planet: Jouston Huang: Neo 1973 is sold out http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000229.html Aug 06 07:10:05 morning Aug 06 07:12:29 TRIsoft: morning (you just missed news that Neo1973 has 'sold out') ( http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000229.html https://direct.openmoko.com/ ) Aug 06 07:13:50 :-O Aug 06 07:13:55 "We sold out our Neo 1973 now. In fact, if you place order now. The ETA will be almost October 2007." Aug 06 07:14:37 my Neo1973 better not break ... Aug 06 07:14:50 aloril: your telling me Aug 06 07:15:28 aloril: Yep. Better keep it in some carrying case. Aug 06 07:15:33 wonder what ETA is for the gta02 currently Aug 06 07:15:56 (including all the steps until actual shipping) Aug 06 07:16:29 somehow I doubt October .. Aug 06 07:16:41 xkr47: Better question is: Will the next shipping be GTA01 or 02 ? Aug 06 07:17:04 I think that rather gta01 Aug 06 07:17:06 :) Aug 06 07:17:18 * xkr47 is happy that they are sold out Aug 06 07:18:26 xkr47: don't be until it has been succesfully delivered ;-) Aug 06 07:19:01 xzcvczx: lets hope your problem can be resolved Aug 06 07:19:09 ;) Aug 06 07:20:53 aloril: yeah thats what i hope.... if only i could find out what the problem is i have a couple of people i know who are brilliant with electronics so if its something easy will be nice Aug 06 07:22:59 last one for today (... sorry) Aug 06 07:23:13 also http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/hello_world_v4t Aug 06 07:23:16 er -also Aug 06 07:23:20 * anrp uses history Aug 06 07:26:41 root@fic-gta01:~$ ./hello_world_v4t\nInteger hello 32769\nDouble hello: 239924525 sin=0918189 cos=0396143 Aug 06 07:26:53 alright Aug 06 07:27:04 something's still odd (no decimal point?) but it finally does something -_- Aug 06 07:27:08 thanks, i appreciate it Aug 06 07:27:12 np Aug 06 07:28:46 :) Aug 06 07:28:47 hi guys, did any of you tried to pair Neo and MacOS? I try to run passkey-agent --default 0000 and put 0000 on Mac while pairing but this doesn't work. Aug 06 07:32:36 or maybe someone had problems with pairing linux and neo? Aug 06 07:34:27 anrp: I just wondered what problem you had with your Neo1973 and it seems it was good I wondered (new information for you) Aug 06 07:37:46 (updated estimates, but they are guesses of course ...: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter ) Aug 06 07:44:00 since I just came aware that there is a logfile which gets published on web without asking the people here first, I'll leave the channel. I don't like being published with everything I say here without giving my explicit permission Aug 06 07:44:51 Rince you pussy.. Aug 06 07:44:54 :D Aug 06 07:45:00 isn't IRC public anyway? Aug 06 07:45:00 read that in the logs ;) Aug 06 07:45:11 well, yes Aug 06 07:45:26 and where is the log? :) Aug 06 07:45:41 it's not like you a)need an invite b) it isn;t sent as plain text Aug 06 07:46:11 there is a difference between a public channel and public log Aug 06 07:46:16 http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ and http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/ Aug 06 07:46:17 hang I'll find it Aug 06 07:46:24 oh, there it is :) Aug 06 07:46:32 ( http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt for recent ) Aug 06 07:47:29 if you mind people reading what you say in a public channel... perhaps you should think about what you say... Aug 06 07:47:47 * Dmitry_Platonov agrees with ScaredyCat Aug 06 07:48:41 w00t card finally charged! now no excuse for not working through a build :) Aug 06 07:49:09 it's one thing to make a fool of yourself in front of 300ppl, and another infront of 6 billion ;) Aug 06 07:49:31 6 billion don't give a flying feck.. Aug 06 07:49:35 anybody got 2007.2 running in qemu? Aug 06 07:49:41 6 billion don't even know who you are Aug 06 07:49:58 unless you're the star wars kid.. Aug 06 07:50:10 or that other kid they photoshopped a lot.. Aug 06 07:50:20 but then... this is irc... Aug 06 07:50:55 and I'm a 19 year old female with large breasts... you've seen that picture... Aug 06 07:51:19 ;) Aug 06 07:51:40 * Dmitry_Platonov did not seen "that" picture Aug 06 07:52:12 trying to find it Dmitry_Platonov Aug 06 07:55:43 thomasg: you around? Aug 06 07:57:09 what about GPS chip in 02? Will it be same GL Hammerhead as in 01? Aug 06 08:18:16 http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/zaurus/mplayer/mplayer-arm920t Aug 06 08:18:18 and with that... bed Aug 06 08:32:30 So how many people left because of the logs? Aug 06 08:33:41 * rwhitby wonders if people realise what they post to the mailing list is available for the public to see too .... Aug 06 08:34:01 rwhitby: only know one person ;-) Aug 06 08:35:02 isn't every mailinglist archived these days? Aug 06 08:35:22 ~logs Aug 06 08:35:24 logs is, like, apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Aug 06 08:35:28 in my experience, there is always someone who archives it and puts it online sooner or later Aug 06 08:36:30 http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?uid=348 klick plx Aug 06 08:37:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Navigation]] [[Translation_HOWTO/bg]] [[Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Development_resources]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[User:Xkr47]] Aug 06 08:40:12 anrp: earlier: 73.061s: mplayer-opt-fm -lavdopts idct=7 -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 08:40:20 works now, but slower: 149.51s: time mplayer-arm920t -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 08:41:07 does someone want to try runnning xev and touch the screen and hold it for a bit and tell me what sort of fluctuation you get in the position,.... i am getting about 200 pixels of fluctuation in it Aug 06 08:44:10 xzcvczx, i can't, i deinstalled X :D but we can do with the ts_-tools like ts_test Aug 06 08:44:15 works now, but slower with same options too: 146.87s: time mplayer-arm920t -lavdopts idct=7 -ao null -vo null RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -benchmark -ac null Aug 06 08:45:51 xzcvczx: about (+-1, +-2) Aug 06 08:49:11 mdt: ah thanks havent seen those programs before Aug 06 08:50:32 mdt: in ts_print_raw if you touch and hold does it print multiple events for you? Aug 06 08:51:51 xzcvczx, cool stuff... Aug 06 08:52:25 xzcvczx, wait a second Aug 06 08:53:04 yes Aug 06 08:53:40 about +-10 Aug 06 08:54:20 ok Aug 06 08:54:23 if i lift off i get a 0 0 0 event and after that a 300 300 0 event (or whatever coords) Aug 06 08:54:55 hmmmm i am trying the ts_test program and i get a picture that looks like Aug 06 08:55:06 _ Aug 06 08:55:26 have u shut down X? Aug 06 08:55:31 nope Aug 06 08:55:47 just kill the program with something ...session in the name Aug 06 08:56:09 the picture of ts_test are 2 buttons on top and 2 lines text Aug 06 08:56:21 u get a cursor to move & draw Aug 06 09:00:41 'morning Aug 06 09:04:37 mdt: https://swel024.ath.cx/~swel024/moko.jpg Aug 06 09:05:16 hey! how did u change the color? Aug 06 09:05:23 :D cool Aug 06 09:05:26 mdt: huh? Aug 06 09:05:48 xzcvczx, that wasn't draawn with ts_test...? Aug 06 09:06:16 mdt: that was a crude copy of what it looked like in ts_test done in mspaint Aug 06 09:07:20 in other words those 2 left corners were not picking up Aug 06 09:07:30 and on the right hand side it was going off the screen Aug 06 09:07:32 xzcvczx, try fbgrab to get a png Aug 06 09:07:44 oh ok Aug 06 09:08:00 neo is open - all tools included :D Aug 06 09:11:55 https://swel024.ath.cx/~swel024/blah.png Aug 06 09:12:45 mornin' Aug 06 09:15:38 mdt: thats from fbgrab Aug 06 09:16:17 from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader modified to setenv menu_7 Autofast-Charge: neo1973 charger autofast Aug 06 09:16:48 xzcvczx, doing what? Aug 06 09:17:05 can u ts_cal.. the device first? Aug 06 09:17:11 chgmode stays at fast_cccv Aug 06 09:17:13 mdt: already ts_cal'd it Aug 06 09:18:40 xzcvczx, so u tried to draw full screen? and get that only? Aug 06 09:18:55 mdt: yup Aug 06 09:20:57 so that solves it, just need to select additional item from menu and its fast Aug 06 09:22:00 xzcvczx, let me see if the cal really writes it somewhere... it really looks as if the calibration does not fit on your deveice Aug 06 09:28:17 (original works too for just charging, modified for charge + usage from USB charger) Aug 06 09:30:18 mdt: when you run ts_calibrate whats your xres and yres Aug 06 09:32:49 xzcvczx, xres = 480, yres = 640 Aug 06 09:34:16 xzcvczx: root@fic-gta01:~$ cat /etc/pointercal Aug 06 09:34:17 381 36320 -3001508 -47899 -123 45146744 65536 Aug 06 09:35:06 yeah 2 people now have had 3 negatives i only have 2 Aug 06 09:35:57 howdy LaF0rge Aug 06 09:38:01 LaF0rge, can you comment on rumors that GTA02 will have different GPS chip? Aug 06 09:38:07 can a couple more people paste their /etc/pointercal input in here Aug 06 09:42:11 ts_print_raw reports time, x, y, on/off: is there program that reports values between 0 and 1 too? (for pressure sensitivity, I assume it has that) Aug 06 09:43:19 0 35927 -2393388 -47544 0 44867448 65536 Aug 06 09:43:21 good morning Aug 06 09:43:34 23 36174 -2999772 -47691 -275 45150800 65536 Aug 06 09:47:53 hmmmm thanks Aug 06 09:48:39 where can I find the second generation user interface? Aug 06 09:48:39 liu_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 06 09:51:14 aloril, why do you think Neo's touchscreen has pressure sensitivity? I doubt it. Aug 06 09:52:38 88 35789 -2554340 -47401 -510 45122076 65536 Aug 06 09:52:42 2007-08-04 18:11:13 b) play with pressure reporting frequency Aug 06 09:52:42 where can I find the second generation user interface? Aug 06 09:52:44 2007-08-04 18:11:24 pressure reporting? Aug 06 09:52:52 2007-08-04 18:11:40 not pressure in parcitular Aug 06 09:52:53 xzcvczx, 194 35932 -2758620 -47727 -241 44968404 655366 Aug 06 09:54:04 Dmitry_Platonov: so... it might report values other than 0 and 1 in hardware, maybe: Aug 06 09:54:05 2007-08-04 18:11:53 contact resistance? Aug 06 09:54:21 liu_: http://people.openmoko.org/alphaone/images/ Aug 06 09:54:38 ScaredyCat: thanks Aug 06 09:55:25 for normal X11 apps: probably not useful, but if you want to extract all information for "check for signature" or "fast input gestures" or .. could be useful Aug 06 09:55:52 ScaredyCat: I don't have Development Environment, can you tell me what's new? Aug 06 09:56:54 it's only a small set of apps, a few games.. the scrolling is 'inertial' ie you flick it and it scrolls quickly, slowing as time goes by Aug 06 09:57:09 it's not complete atm either Aug 06 09:57:16 those are very basic images. Aug 06 09:57:37 ScaredyCat: thank you Aug 06 09:58:25 I think, in hardware each touchscreen "cell" has only on/off status. But, if you use finger, it can compute area of contact and software can transform it to "pressure" Aug 06 09:58:28 no probs. They're quite good for demoing the potential of the neo Aug 06 09:58:59 mdt: oh well it looks like it may not be a hardware issue anymore.... pulled off the cover and it worked properly Aug 06 09:59:12 xzcvczx, ;) Aug 06 10:01:06 fluff in the machine Aug 06 10:01:36 * ScaredyCat remembers it's the first monday of the month... Aug 06 10:01:48 xzcvczx: phew Aug 06 10:01:53 and must be midday Aug 06 10:03:53 ScaredyCat: aleady checked that went over the cover and screen with the stylus torch but couldnt see anything Aug 06 10:04:25 it does seem to be that the case is pushing on it or something though Aug 06 10:04:34 * SpeedEvil wanders back. (anrp) /me has to sleep somewhere. Aug 06 10:04:39 * SpeedEvil wanders back. (anrp) /me has to sleep sometime. Aug 06 10:04:49 * SpeedEvil yawns. Aug 06 10:05:14 That is a hardware problem. Aug 06 10:05:28 Have you removed the touchscreen cover? Aug 06 10:05:36 anyone one knows what would happen if rootfs.jffs2 has about 35120KB ? Aug 06 10:05:47 I am trying to upload it now ;) Aug 06 10:05:51 why should anything? Aug 06 10:05:57 would it fit? Aug 06 10:05:58 SpeedEvil: well i was more meaning electron carrying/generating/whatever hardware problem before Aug 06 10:06:04 it's 64M Aug 06 10:06:15 hmm, i though its 32MB Aug 06 10:06:21 ok, nvrmnd Aug 06 10:06:26 cayco: the partition it goes in Aug 06 10:06:58 SpeedEvil: touch screen cover you mean the screen protecter that comes with it if so yes Aug 06 10:12:31 yes Aug 06 10:12:38 * SpeedEvil sighs. Aug 06 10:12:44 WRT the 'sold out' notice. Aug 06 10:12:49 Fucking insane. Aug 06 10:14:48 Nothing even to the announce list. Never mind that the announce should have been nearly a month ago. Aug 06 10:16:03 openmoko.com down? Aug 06 10:16:24 It'll be back sometime 2008... Aug 06 10:17:09 I'd have been less pissed off with a 'for contractual reasons we can't inform you'. notice much earlier. Aug 06 10:19:47 SpeedEvil: what are you reading? Aug 06 10:20:02 guys, i have a problem, i made jffs2 image using MokoMakefile, uploaded it to phone using dfu-util and after reboot all I can see on screen is: JFFS2 error: 729 jffs2_du_read_inode_internatl: Argh. Special inode #6754 with mode 0x21a4 had more than one node (there are few screens of that kinds of message). Aug 06 10:20:13 s/reading/smoking/ Aug 06 10:20:16 i tried taht on friday, i tried today - all the same Aug 06 10:20:34 what am i doing wrong? Aug 06 10:20:38 * Dmitry_Platonov could not resist Aug 06 10:20:49 Dmitry_Platonov: lol Aug 06 10:22:24 * xzcvczx wonders how much a neo1973 cover would cost as his top cover must be bent/damaged/something Aug 06 10:22:36 strange thing is that on emulator it works fine Aug 06 10:23:49 cayco: try using the new mokomakefile targets to flash your neo Aug 06 10:24:14 cayco: how goes neo? Aug 06 10:24:17 jgm: what are they? i mean what is their name? Aug 06 10:24:20 If the neo is plugged in and ready to flash then just 'make flash-neo-local' Aug 06 10:24:26 xzcvczx, it probably won't cost anything, but arranging for the shipment of it probably gets expensive :P Aug 06 10:24:28 cayco: first clean rootfs from bootloader Aug 06 10:24:43 xkr47: yeah Aug 06 10:24:59 maybe the hacker's toolbox should contain an extra cover as well Aug 06 10:25:01 hrw: you mean factory reset? Aug 06 10:25:21 cayco: no Aug 06 10:25:30 cayco: 'nand erase rootfs' Aug 06 10:25:35 cayco: read the wiki Aug 06 10:26:03 hrw: neo goes fine ;) i cant get my own images to work but i can install and play with ipk packages Aug 06 10:26:03 xzcvczx, got mplayer running yet? Aug 06 10:26:20 Psi_: no had other things to worry about Aug 06 10:26:30 Psi_: only just got my touchscreen working properly again Aug 06 10:26:40 hehe, what was wrong with it? Aug 06 10:26:50 Psi_: case seems to be pushing in a weird place Aug 06 10:27:04 cayco: where in Poland you are from? Aug 06 10:27:08 thats strange Aug 06 10:27:19 Psi_: do you maybe want to look at going 1/2's in a debug board if we can buy them by themselves? Aug 06 10:27:20 hrw: warszawa Aug 06 10:27:39 cayco: base or advanced neo kit? Aug 06 10:27:46 xzcvczx, i was going to buy the hackers lunchbox for my next wifi neo Aug 06 10:27:57 Psi_: yeah thats true Aug 06 10:28:18 hrw: base, buddy of mine has ordere advanced but he has some high order number (~3000) Aug 06 10:28:26 I built 2007.2 images, but they are not working with qemu. Might be qemu issues, or images' one. Anybody want to check? Aug 06 10:28:56 cayco: in case of problem you can visit PoznaÅ„ and get your neo restored from brick Aug 06 10:29:29 hrw: ok, i know how to erase rootfs from bootloader, but why I need to do that? Aug 06 10:29:33 hrw: dziÄ™ki ;) Aug 06 10:29:52 xzcvczx, so you still dont know of anyone in nz with the debug board? Aug 06 10:30:09 cayco: because dfu uploading does not do it so if you upload smaller rootfs then the one which was on device jffs2 can get wild Aug 06 10:30:10 xzcvczx: direct.openmoko.com Aug 06 10:30:28 Please note that due to unexpected high demand, even at this early development stage, our quantities up to and including August 2007 are already oversold. This means that any orders placed now will not be shipping before September 10, 2007. We ask for your understanding. Your credit card will only be charged immediately before delivery. Aug 06 10:30:54 yeah, i just saw that on the mailing list Aug 06 10:31:28 SpeedEvil: Huh? direct.openmoko.com is accessible but www. isn't? Now, how bad PR is that for a company to not have the main domain accessible... Aug 06 10:31:42 Well. Aug 06 10:31:49 SpeedEvil: yeah i realise that but i was thinking about getting in touch with them directly just about a case/debug board so figured it was just complete units they were having a problem with Aug 06 10:31:51 PR seems maybe not to be the strong point. Aug 06 10:32:13 SpeedEvil: Words well chosen, my friend. Aug 06 10:32:34 And I agree totally ;) Aug 06 10:32:49 xzcvczx, what do you want one so badly? Aug 06 10:32:55 do you want to play with uboot?\ Aug 06 10:33:11 if so, why? Aug 06 10:33:11 it'd be like having an online shop that doesn't have a proper certificate....oh ..wait... errm Aug 06 10:33:23 heh Aug 06 10:33:49 what=why Aug 06 10:33:52 Psi_: well no i think i need a new front cover so if i was going to have to pay for shipping for that anyway i figured i would get something like a debug board which would be good just in case accidentally stuffed uboot Aug 06 10:33:57 hrw; does this nand erase thing also go for kernels? Aug 06 10:34:03 ah Aug 06 10:34:13 why are you flashing uboot anyway Aug 06 10:34:14 cayco: kernel partition does not have that problem Aug 06 10:34:17 hi Aug 06 10:34:17 ive not needed to yet Aug 06 10:34:44 cayco: kernel for u-boot contain header which has information how big kernel is so there is no problem when you flash smaller kernel Aug 06 10:34:45 Psi_: i have updated mine once Aug 06 10:34:55 xzcvczx: I'm sure you read Harald's blog post so you might want to wait till v3 of the debug board goes into mass production :) Aug 06 10:34:58 xzcvczx, why? Aug 06 10:35:03 shouldn't that be on wiki somewhere? Aug 06 10:35:17 cayco: it is somewhere Aug 06 10:35:26 abraxa_: nope Aug 06 10:36:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Minime/sketch]] [[Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support/Device_Support]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support]] [[Main_Page/bg]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Duesseldorf]] Aug 06 10:36:46 xzcvczx: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/ - it's the second point on the list Aug 06 10:41:18 I updated wiki on that on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device Aug 06 10:41:36 Fuck. I've just paid 70$ toll. Aug 06 10:41:40 Shit fuck fuck. Aug 06 10:41:55 :( Aug 06 10:42:03 $70 is like 45pence... it's nothing Aug 06 10:42:12 mmazur: for what? Aug 06 10:42:18 Neo. Aug 06 10:42:27 dollars of what country Aug 06 10:42:28 borg paid 180 Euro Aug 06 10:42:33 usd Aug 06 10:42:52 I'm just unwrapping my precsioussss. Aug 06 10:43:22 mmazur: are you from poland? Aug 06 10:43:31 yup Aug 06 10:43:37 mmzaur: a skÄ…d? Aug 06 10:43:45 cayco: opole ztcp Aug 06 10:43:49 has anyone got a rootfs image that works with moko11? Aug 06 10:43:53 ..and you paid in usd? Aug 06 10:44:00 I'm at an airport with a really flaky wifi I paid money for Aug 06 10:44:06 No, but if I gave you PLN that wouldn't mean squat to you :) Aug 06 10:44:08 hrw, yes Aug 06 10:44:19 zloty! Aug 06 10:44:20 hrw: i know (by email) one other user from warsaw - p. Duda Aug 06 10:44:44 hrw: there is quite a few of us ;) Aug 06 10:45:37 ScaredyCat: zÅ‚oty Aug 06 10:46:47 ok, guys, cleaning up rootfs helped, thx for helping Aug 06 10:47:23 openmoko: 03abraxa * r2643 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Aug 06 10:47:23 openmoko: Session save/restore now implemented Aug 06 10:47:23 openmoko: More main window<->playback/playlist interfacing Aug 06 10:47:23 openmoko: Some cleaning up, some bugfixing :) Aug 06 10:54:27 ello moko nuts Aug 06 10:54:49 some nice pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/devilsrejection/1020419015/ Aug 06 10:55:51 openmoko: 03zecke * r2644 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (ChangeLog src/feed-data.c): Aug 06 10:55:51 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 06 10:55:51 openmoko: Blind compile fix for GNU libc. Aug 06 10:55:51 openmoko: * src/feed-data.c: Aug 06 10:59:54 re Aug 06 11:00:33 Psi: what kernel are you running? Aug 06 11:06:17 unboxing video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXNg2qG2IJ Aug 06 11:06:46 They were not kidding when the said the stylus is big Aug 06 11:06:52 http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone Aug 06 11:08:03 Linux_Galore: "The url contained a malformed video id." Aug 06 11:08:27 oops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXNg2qG2IJ8 Aug 06 11:08:30 sorry Aug 06 11:10:25 Dmitry_Platonov: Wow... I for one would not dare to tear up a device that contains a Li-Ion cell... Aug 06 11:10:58 They even tried to blend lighters... Aug 06 11:11:00 http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?uid=1521 Aug 06 11:14:10 anyone managed to pair neo to smth? Aug 06 11:15:40 you mean with BT? Aug 06 11:15:56 yeah, one of the guys here wrote a script to make it act as a BT GPS Aug 06 11:16:09 cayco: they tried it in matrix revolutions and it didnt work Aug 06 11:16:23 badumtish Aug 06 11:16:43 yeah i know Aug 06 11:16:45 a cannot pass pairing, i tried with macOS, with my phone and passkey-agent seems to be malfuctioning to me Aug 06 11:16:55 ewon: yes, i mean BT Aug 06 11:17:06 check the wiki for the bt gps script and see how he did it, I'd say Aug 06 11:17:48 ewon: thx, i try that... Aug 06 11:17:49 * SpeedEvil fires off a message to community - after rewording it to take out the rude words. Aug 06 11:18:02 so it's an empty message SpeedEvil? Aug 06 11:18:27 Not quite. Aug 06 11:18:41 * ScaredyCat waits for the message Aug 06 11:19:23 Crap. I have problems figuring out how to insert the sim and flash card properly. Aug 06 11:20:49 ********** = ?? Aug 06 11:20:56 Undefined. Aug 06 11:21:02 assuming * = 1 char Aug 06 11:21:15 mmazur: the key is that the SIMs/cards slide into the metal bits Aug 06 11:21:21 I know. Aug 06 11:21:37 It'd be nice if someone uploaded a 'finished' photo of everything. Aug 06 11:21:54 open sim holder. slide microSD into the holder - contacts down and first in. Aug 06 11:21:57 This is like advanced technology, linux 'n stuff, I get scared of such things. Aug 06 11:22:17 I can once the batteries for my camera are done mmazur Aug 06 11:22:24 close holder gently, and push the microSD to lock Aug 06 11:22:27 mmazur: There's a video on google video/YouTube for that Aug 06 11:22:30 I htought there was a video Aug 06 11:22:33 push the metal tab to lock Aug 06 11:22:33 yes Aug 06 11:22:34 cayco: I've been using my neo as a BT GPS receiver for Maemo Mapper running on my Nokia N800 Aug 06 11:22:49 Video? Aug 06 11:22:50 Hmmm. Aug 06 11:22:55 mmazur: check this pictures: http://www.openmoko.org.pl/node/38 (at the end) Aug 06 11:23:11 I see the openmoko sales process is verging on cretinous Aug 06 11:23:19 rwhitby: how did you paired your devices? Aug 06 11:23:51 mmazur: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-8343770443102960945 shows you how Aug 06 11:24:01 oh, I had a Treo650 paired with it too, using the Treo as a hardware keyboard over ssh over bluetooth dund Aug 06 11:24:16 run edit /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf on the neo Aug 06 11:24:25 s/run/just/ Aug 06 11:24:25 rwhitby meant: just edit /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf on the neo Aug 06 11:24:49 and turn security to none? Aug 06 11:24:58 why do people insist on putting shite music in their videos all the time. Aug 06 11:25:02 rwhitby: impressive Aug 06 11:25:36 ewon: I set the pin in hcid.conf or /etc/bluetooth/pin or something like that (don't remember). Aug 06 11:26:05 then edited the bluetooth defaults file to start sdpd and dund, and put some stuff in /etc/ppp/options. Aug 06 11:26:10 anyone heard anything about a toolchain for the UTStarCom DV007? Aug 06 11:26:17 (I'd done it all on an NSLU2 before, and the Neo wasn't much different) Aug 06 11:26:57 mmazur: you want photo of mSD/sim slot? Aug 06 11:27:06 ewon: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Peripherals/BluetoothAdapter is how you do it on an NSLU2, the firmware for which is also built from OpenEmbedded. Aug 06 11:27:13 yes! setting the pin in hcid.conf helped me ;) i was trying to set it while starting root@fic-gta01:~$ passkey-agent --default and it won't work Aug 06 11:28:32 rwhitby: cool, thanks Aug 06 11:29:48 hrw, managed with the video. Aug 06 11:29:57 It doesn't look too... durable. Aug 06 11:30:06 Dropping it would probably mean death. Aug 06 11:32:14 wonder could I find one of those silicon skins to fit the neo Aug 06 11:32:28 mmazur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA ;) Aug 06 11:32:31 wiki is broken in opera Aug 06 11:35:43 Ok, just got my first kernel panic. Aug 06 11:35:44 Yeeeeeey. Aug 06 11:37:27 \o/ Aug 06 11:42:31 mmmm Aug 06 11:46:01 my nokia 770 says that the neo has no bt services :( Aug 06 11:46:16 * ScaredyCat gpsifies it Aug 06 11:46:54 Hmm, the neo should be able to act as a gps via bt for other phones, ay? Aug 06 11:47:00 yes Aug 06 11:47:09 and there is a script for that in the wiki Aug 06 11:49:17 didn't work Aug 06 11:49:18 mmazur: I've dropped the neo from chest height onto pavement, and it still works fine. Aug 06 11:49:57 ScaredyCat: are you using MaemoMapper? Aug 06 11:50:09 yes Aug 06 11:50:11 jserv2: congratulations Aug 06 11:50:13 well, I was trying to Aug 06 11:50:20 but i didn;t get that far Aug 06 11:50:40 ScaredyCat: run the first gps script, and then tail /tmp/gps.nmea until you get a fix, before starting the second script Aug 06 11:50:49 Ah, crap! Aug 06 11:50:51 aaahhhhhh Aug 06 11:50:54 then connect with the nokia Aug 06 11:50:57 If only I had time to play with this more :(((((((((( Aug 06 11:51:00 Stupid job. Aug 06 11:51:23 rwhitby: you are brave Aug 06 11:51:28 ScaredyCat: I haven't got a reliable setup myself yet, but that sequence seems to work best for me (still doesn't work every time) Aug 06 11:51:36 xzcvczxx: I didn't drop it by choice Aug 06 11:51:44 lol Aug 06 11:52:19 k, I'll give it a go rwhitby, ta... Aug 06 11:53:02 whats the best way to get the newest image since buildhost has gone? Aug 06 11:53:14 If I'd had the internal screws still inserted, it would have survived unscathed. As I had taken the screws out to get to the debug connector (both my neos have the screws permanently removed), the top of the case split apart a bit (probably due to the weight of the ceramic BT antenna) and the aux button was dislodged. Aug 06 11:53:18 try chooseopen Aug 06 11:53:35 xzcvczx: Aug 06 11:53:37 ScaredyCat: they only have moko10 on there Aug 06 11:53:49 and i have a moko11 kernel Aug 06 11:53:57 :/ Aug 06 12:00:45 * SpeedEvil has done GPS via GPRS Aug 06 12:01:31 cat tmp.nmea|ssh foo.com 'cat >/tmp/nmea' Aug 06 12:01:46 :) Aug 06 12:01:53 gpsd on that, then all the usual stuff just worked. Aug 06 12:02:12 is tmp.nmea a socket or pipe or something ? Aug 06 12:02:16 yes Aug 06 12:02:18 it's a pipe Aug 06 12:02:23 in both ends ? Aug 06 12:02:32 yes. Aug 06 12:02:35 cool Aug 06 12:02:57 linux is ridiculously easy sometimes :) Aug 06 12:03:35 Of course - dealing with errors cleanly - losing GPRS connection - and it gets a bit more complex. Aug 06 12:04:53 http://buildhost.openmoko.org is dead Aug 06 12:04:57 Where can I get dfu-util from? Aug 06 12:05:12 xzcvczx, you hilighted me at about 8.00 am? Aug 06 12:05:58 mmazur: linux x-86 binary work? Aug 06 12:06:40 SpeedEvil, yeah Aug 06 12:08:44 http://www.mauve.plus.com/dfu.tar.gz Aug 06 12:08:56 source and binary Aug 06 12:09:35 cf1d20a0460a2e44f7a25c2b70f33981 dfu.tar.gz Aug 06 12:11:48 What's the gold thing on the side of neo? Looks like a antenna port or sth. Aug 06 12:12:09 I've assumed that's what it is Aug 06 12:12:15 thomasg_: never mind i just worked out what problem was...... thanks anyway though Aug 06 12:12:47 there's a song from a german band, called "thanks for nothing" :) Aug 06 12:12:53 lol Aug 06 12:13:39 SpeedEvil, got it, thx Aug 06 12:21:13 mmazur: GPS Aug 06 12:21:23 gps what? Aug 06 12:21:24 mmazur: the GSM port is under the back cover. Aug 06 12:21:28 Ah. Aug 06 12:21:29 antenna Aug 06 12:21:37 I can connect an external antenna for the gps? Aug 06 12:21:38 kewl Aug 06 12:25:59 Aug 06 12:26:03 Where's that supposed to be from? Aug 06 12:26:08 <_alcik_> hi all.... Aug 06 12:26:20 <_alcik_> I have just received my neo :-DDDDDDD Aug 06 12:26:30 _alcik_, and payed how much toll? Aug 06 12:26:57 <_alcik_> unfortunatelly have no time at the moment to play with.... Aug 06 12:27:19 <_alcik_> mmazur $300 * ~$68 + 195PLN Aug 06 12:27:32 <_alcik_> some work to do (damn).. Aug 06 12:27:42 alex-weej, yeah :( Aug 06 12:27:45 Blah. Aug 06 12:27:47 Damn toll. Aug 06 12:27:49 grrrr i hate rented dvds Aug 06 12:27:52 // Aug 06 12:28:05 alex-weej, not you. Aug 06 12:28:11 <_alcik_> but I thought I'll charge the neo while Im working... Aug 06 12:28:36 <_alcik_> DO I understeand it right it must be ON to charge battery? Aug 06 12:28:50 _alcik_: not that i know of Aug 06 12:29:05 _alcik_: not quite. Aug 06 12:29:17 It's got to be on at some point to configure high-rate Aug 06 12:29:34 * LarstiQ wonders if he should be hopeful by the payments of #4035 and #4104 Aug 06 12:29:37 <_alcik_> at what point? Aug 06 12:29:47 Basically. Aug 06 12:29:54 The charger has several modes. Aug 06 12:29:59 (well, eleventy-million really) Aug 06 12:30:14 <_alcik_> yeah 100mA i 500mA right? Aug 06 12:30:20 Some will charge fast - if presented with 5V, this is 'autofast' mode. Aug 06 12:30:23 have to do a openmoko will it blend bit Aug 06 12:30:49 get a stuffed OM and blend it Aug 06 12:31:00 There have been questions raised as to if linux disables this setting however. Aug 06 12:31:47 It will always - unless the battery is faulty - after some minutes/seconds start charging the battery at low rate. Aug 06 12:32:36 faulty/overtemp Aug 06 12:35:04 <_alcik_> SE I have a bl-5c nokia phone, but I think someone has wrote that it wont charge neos battery... Aug 06 12:35:18 Cheapest BLC-5 chargers will Aug 06 12:35:27 Non Nokia Aug 06 12:35:44 Neo will run from a charged nokia bat Aug 06 12:35:48 <_alcik_> its a pitty... Aug 06 12:36:21 Anyone know where I pickup headset click events? Aug 06 12:36:40 * SpeedEvil wants to do a trivial 'next track' button Aug 06 12:36:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[Supported_microSD_cards]] [[Main_Page]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] Aug 06 12:36:53 not in /dev/input Aug 06 12:38:29 <_alcik_> SE when I flash my neo (it is still in kernel panic mode;) will it start to charge on 500mA mode? Aug 06 12:38:41 Kernel panic mode? Aug 06 12:38:55 Have you ever set 'autofast' mode? Aug 06 12:39:11 <_alcik_> U know, I just take it out of the box... Aug 06 12:39:18 K. Aug 06 12:39:22 Then no. Aug 06 12:39:35 Turn it on. Aug 06 12:39:55 then 5s or so later - if you have the cdc_acm module loaded on your USB host Aug 06 12:40:31 connect with your favourite terminal program to /dev/ttyACM0 Aug 06 12:40:42 and say 'neo1973 charger autofast' Aug 06 12:40:46 or something similar. Aug 06 12:40:49 it's on the wiki. Aug 06 12:41:08 Hmmm. Aug 06 12:41:22 <_alcik_> ok... Im looking right now... big thanks Aug 06 12:41:59 I think it's getting started with your new neo1973 - on the neo1973 page Aug 06 12:42:07 [mmazur@klapek src]$ ./dfu-util Aug 06 12:42:07 Naruszenie ochrony pamiêci Aug 06 12:42:08 openmoko: 03njp * r2645 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 06 12:42:08 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 12:42:08 openmoko: * configure.ac: Aug 06 12:42:08 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Aug 06 12:42:08 openmoko: * src/dialer-main.c: (main): Aug 06 12:42:10 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_lookup): Aug 06 12:42:10 Yeah, a coredump. Aug 06 12:42:12 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_rejected), Aug 06 12:42:48 mmazur: maybe libusb problem? Aug 06 12:43:00 Probably. Aug 06 12:43:12 Wonder which version it expects. Aug 06 12:43:31 why cant you compile it yourself? Aug 06 12:43:44 I did. Aug 06 12:43:50 That's my compilation that segfaults. Aug 06 12:44:13 oh ;) Aug 06 12:44:25 mmazur: run as root? Aug 06 12:46:59 Ah. It doesn't like to be compiled dynamically. Aug 06 12:47:28 My fault. Aug 06 12:47:31 Let's flash! Aug 06 12:47:31 hmm, i compiled it dynamicly on mac Aug 06 12:49:14 14:48 hrw@home:~$ file devel/openmoko/build/tmp/deploy/images/dfu-util Aug 06 12:49:14 devel/openmoko/build/tmp/deploy/images/dfu-util: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.1, statically linked, not stripped Aug 06 12:49:23 Yeah, my fault, my fault. Aug 06 12:54:24 This is annoying. I get input events for headset insertion, but not for headet button press. Aug 06 12:57:32 openmoko: 03njp * r2646 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-contacts.c): Aug 06 12:57:32 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 12:57:32 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_lookup): Aug 06 12:57:32 openmoko: Check entry is valid before performing operations on it. Aug 06 12:59:50 hi Aug 06 13:07:43 Fuck!!!!!! Aug 06 13:07:52 I've just misscalibrated my touchthing. Aug 06 13:07:53 ? Aug 06 13:07:53 mmazur: hmm? Aug 06 13:07:56 Wtf do I do now? Aug 06 13:08:06 return your neo for recal. Aug 06 13:08:07 :) Aug 06 13:08:09 Or ssh in Aug 06 13:08:17 and run Xsomething Aug 06 13:08:29 I can ssh by default? Aug 06 13:08:31 ts_calibrate Aug 06 13:08:33 mmazur: or re-flash it Aug 06 13:08:42 cayco, that's the slow version :) Aug 06 13:08:48 :) Aug 06 13:08:57 find the 'getting started' page on the wiki Aug 06 13:09:08 or search on cdc_ether Aug 06 13:09:12 basically on host Aug 06 13:09:17 modprobe cdc_ether Aug 06 13:09:19 plug in neo Aug 06 13:09:28 ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 Aug 06 13:09:35 ssh 192.168.0.202 Aug 06 13:10:07 take the neo, throw it against the wall and write a unkind e-mail to the list, mmazur :) Aug 06 13:10:22 Yeah. Works. Aug 06 13:10:43 http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/pointercal/files/fic-gta01/pointercal Aug 06 13:10:53 should contain constants that work on your device Aug 06 13:10:54 xtscal rather Aug 06 13:11:14 export DISPLAY=:0 first Aug 06 13:12:00 Anyone: hexdump -C /dev/input/event0 Aug 06 13:12:12 The headset being plugged/unplugged delivers an event. Aug 06 13:12:18 As does the top button. Aug 06 13:12:29 However, the hold button on the headset does not work for me. Aug 06 13:12:38 Does it for anyone? Aug 06 13:12:53 <_alcik_> am I wrong or the buildhost.openmoko.org is empty? Aug 06 13:13:06 Anyone with hardware rather. Aug 06 13:15:50 _alcik_, buildhost was down the last day, maybe a server crash? Aug 06 13:16:24 there are only old snapshots from april now - looks like a old backup Aug 06 13:20:20 SpeedEvil: have you tried xev just in case it uses a funny way to get the signal through Aug 06 13:20:27 hmm Aug 06 13:21:35 SpeedEvil: dont expect me to be right tho Aug 06 13:22:05 the top button does deliver events. Aug 06 13:22:14 but not plugin/plugout, hold button. Aug 06 13:23:32 and off seems to kill the top X window Aug 06 13:24:13 SpeedEvil: plugin/out i guess is nothing to do with x really anyway Aug 06 13:24:19 no. Aug 06 13:24:21 but hold is. Aug 06 13:24:32 yeah Aug 06 13:32:25 openmoko: 03njp * r2647 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-contacts.c): Aug 06 13:32:25 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 13:32:25 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: Aug 06 13:32:25 openmoko: Fix typo. Aug 06 13:33:26 i think we should petition for tab and up and ctrl to be added to the moko keyboard..... terminal is fpita without those Aug 06 13:33:35 lol Aug 06 13:33:58 xvkbd I like for the keyboard. Aug 06 13:34:54 * * OM Bug 687 has been created by koen(AT)openembedded.org Aug 06 13:34:55 * * openmoko-dialer2 hardcodes gta01 hardware assumptions Aug 06 13:34:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=687 Aug 06 13:37:03 xzcvczx just use matchbox-keyboard Aug 06 13:37:29 xcvczx you're from america arent ya? Aug 06 13:37:47 BryceLeo|Work: no, what made you think that Aug 06 13:38:02 openmoko: 03njp * r2648 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c src/moko-notify.c): Aug 06 13:38:02 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 13:38:02 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_call_progress_changed): Aug 06 13:38:02 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (moko_notify_start), (moko_notify_stop), Aug 06 13:38:02 openmoko: (moko_notify_init): Aug 06 13:38:04 openmoko: Added state support for notify object. Aug 06 13:38:21 xzcvczx: your french thing Aug 06 13:43:02 Anyone got a kernel image with -moko11? Aug 06 13:43:49 mmazur: i do Aug 06 13:43:51 xzcvczx: sometime soon Aug 06 13:44:00 mmazur: but you need the rootfs to be 11 not 10 as well Aug 06 13:44:13 I have rootfs 11 and kernel 10. Aug 06 13:44:20 And wonder why half of the stuff doesn't work. Aug 06 13:48:23 Again -- could someone upload moko11 kernel or do I have to downgrade my userspace? Aug 06 13:56:53 mmazur: where did you get your rootfs image from? Aug 06 13:57:00 What does powersaving - turning off the backlight and stuff? Aug 06 13:57:03 some mokomakefile guru here? if i use bitbake through mokomakefile it build in ./build/tmp, if i use bitbake directly it does not have the prefix ./build and builds in ./tmp directly... why? Aug 06 13:57:16 rwhitby ahh Aug 06 13:57:20 xzcvczx, http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ Aug 06 13:57:26 any word from william lai on shipping of the second set? Aug 06 13:57:45 mdt: did you source setup-env? Aug 06 13:57:52 rwhitby, shure Aug 06 13:58:05 grrrr Aug 06 13:58:07 catch 22's Aug 06 13:58:22 mtn 0.31 is too old for OE.mtn.bz2 Aug 06 13:58:31 I can confirm this Aug 06 13:58:34 but 0.36 wont build because its test suite wont work as root Aug 06 13:58:35 mdt: did you source it from inside the build directory, like the instructions say? Aug 06 13:58:37 I updated to 0.35 yesterday Aug 06 13:58:47 but the debian package info wotn build withing being run as root (or fakeroot) Aug 06 13:58:58 mmazur: you sure its 11 then? Aug 06 13:59:01 hoo-ray! Aug 06 13:59:09 raster, you could try a db migration Aug 06 13:59:11 mtn --db=OE.mtn db migrate Aug 06 13:59:13 rwhitby, does it? oups... no i didnt Aug 06 13:59:13 now i need to hack up the package info. Aug 06 13:59:20 thomasg_: doesnt work Aug 06 13:59:25 hm, k Aug 06 13:59:29 the OE mtn is unknown to 0.31 Aug 06 13:59:30 does anyone know where i can get a nano ipkg Aug 06 13:59:33 switching to 0.35 works for me Aug 06 13:59:34 raster: http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-0.31.mtn.bz2 Aug 06 13:59:36 its seemingly produced by a newer mtn Aug 06 13:59:39 * BryceLeo|Work wishes raster luck Aug 06 13:59:45 rwhitby: hooray! Aug 06 13:59:47 :) Aug 06 14:00:17 ...ipkg....gpsd/xgps Aug 06 14:00:18 raster, do you use the efl and e-wm from openembedded (e-wm is 0.16.999.037, so a bit old), or do you use own builds? Aug 06 14:00:18 there's a veritable smorgasbord in http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ Aug 06 14:00:35 SpeedEvil: ??? Aug 06 14:01:09 I'm wondering if anyone has a gpsd, and its included binaries - xgps ipkg Aug 06 14:01:47 rwhitby, no, it does not. it does so in a special case but the norma says to source first and then cd to ./build Aug 06 14:02:33 mdt: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile under "Tips" Aug 06 14:03:00 ah, someone has added incorrect instructions further down Aug 06 14:03:39 rwhitby, hm, under tips is what i interpreted as special case Aug 06 14:04:04 mdt: where were you seeing the instructions to source setup-env from the top-level ? Aug 06 14:04:07 so no more gta01 until october? what does that mean wrt to gta02? Aug 06 14:04:15 I suspect little. Aug 06 14:04:24 No way GTA02 is going to ship oct Aug 06 14:04:28 IMO Aug 06 14:04:28 thomasg_: i was goign to make my own builds Aug 06 14:04:38 rwhitby, a bit down, behind 'this is what you have to do (example: openmoko-messages):" Aug 06 14:04:39 thomasg_: but i updated with moko makefile Aug 06 14:04:39 raster, tell me if you have results :) Aug 06 14:04:49 and then some things didnt build anymore Aug 06 14:04:59 rwhitby, it says `cd $OMDIR;. ./setup-env;cd build` Aug 06 14:05:02 ah, k. I'm using org.oe.dev w/o oe overlay Aug 06 14:05:04 so i decided to wipe ans start cleanly without mokomakefile from the "official" build Aug 06 14:05:08 and ended up in a catch 22 Aug 06 14:05:16 mdt: yeah, I just fixed that - someone else put the wrong instructions there Aug 06 14:05:33 buz: where did you read that? Aug 06 14:05:38 speedevil: my bet is shipping in jan feb Aug 06 14:05:42 planet openmoko Aug 06 14:05:47 ok Aug 06 14:05:48 rwhitby, so from where do i start make? from inside ./build? Aug 06 14:05:53 http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000229.html Aug 06 14:05:53 raster, ok, I had the same decision :) Aug 06 14:06:27 mdt: follow the instructions that are on that page now (hit refresh first) Aug 06 14:07:10 raster: is mokomakefile diverging from the "official" build in some way for you? It's intended to precisely replicate the official build. Aug 06 14:07:12 rwhitby, thnx Aug 06 14:07:19 SpeedEvil: you think that GTA02 isn't going to ship October? I'm wondering if they'll ship GTA02 prior to a 'mass-market' version of OpenMoko, in which case perhaps it will come out a bit earlier Aug 06 14:07:31 rwhitby: dunno Aug 06 14:07:35 jgm: or the mass-market will come later :) Aug 06 14:07:44 rwhitby: all i know is that i ended up with a tree tyhat was b0rked Aug 06 14:07:51 and then i really needed sleep Aug 06 14:08:09 raster: did you start with mokomakefile, or start with something else? Aug 06 14:08:10 and had things like a job to go attend to for paying for my bread and water Aug 06 14:08:11 :) Aug 06 14:08:16 i started with it Aug 06 14:08:59 ok, if you see it bork something (and the borking is not just another OE package breakage), be sure to let me know so I can fix it. Aug 06 14:09:06 rwhitby, currently mokomakefile uses the oe-overlay from openmoko, so the old openmoko2007. when will you switch to blank org.oe.dev without overlay (and 2007.2)? Aug 06 14:09:38 thomasg_: I am coordinating with mickeyl on that front. Aug 06 14:09:53 ok, let me know when you have news Aug 06 14:09:58 his estimate was about a week from now Aug 06 14:10:09 (perhaps aloril needs a new counter ... ;-) Aug 06 14:10:13 rwhitby: will do Aug 06 14:10:35 rwhitby, so setup-env is needed for using bitbake directly only? Aug 06 14:10:37 rwhitby: just short on much time to sink into it - so i tend to abort easily sniffing around for something with less pain - eg scratchbox Aug 06 14:10:39 :) Aug 06 14:10:40 thomasg_: for OM2007.2 builds, you can use the nslu2-linux Master Makefile and just "make openmoko" :-) Aug 06 14:10:50 raster: no problem. Aug 06 14:10:57 mdt: yes Aug 06 14:11:47 * mdt stops wondering why bitbake builds packages that where build by mokomakefile alread :D Aug 06 14:11:47 still snarfing a .31 compatible OE.mtn.bz Aug 06 14:11:58 rwhitby, at moment I try to get my own environment running, hope it will work (bitbake openmoko-devel-image is running at moment). otherwise I will use the nslu2 makefile Aug 06 14:12:15 forgive the question but is moko in qemu as simple as loading an image or does qemu itself need to be patched? Aug 06 14:12:56 thomasg_: if you're able to get your own OE environment going, then there's not much benefit from the makefile in that specific case. Aug 06 14:12:58 * raynet got his Neo Aug 06 14:13:00 finally Aug 06 14:13:17 raynet, so what's /your/ first impression? Aug 06 14:13:27 mdt: it is smaller than i expected Aug 06 14:13:29 anybody scratched Neo1973 screen yet? Aug 06 14:13:48 raynet, smaller? really? wow... for me it was opposite Aug 06 14:14:07 mdt: i was thinking of something in PDA size but it is much smaller than that Aug 06 14:14:24 just perfect for my hand Aug 06 14:14:28 aloril2: I've badly scratched the case around the screen when I dropped it on the pavement, but luckily the screen was untouched. Aug 06 14:14:57 raynet, i think its smartphone size, i more thouht of a small gadget. its the size of a se910i or similar... Aug 06 14:15:02 how do you start the matchbox keyboard? Aug 06 14:15:22 has someone got a bluetooth keyboard working with it? Aug 06 14:15:36 * rwhitby goes to bed - night all Aug 06 14:15:54 mdt: mjr has, AFAIK Aug 06 14:16:17 xzcvczx start it from the terminal or add a panel launcher Aug 06 14:16:25 mdt: Read his "first impressions"/"second impressions" etc on the ml, he mentioned the bt kb there Aug 06 14:16:50 mdt: The one with subject "Second impressions, incl. BT keyboard" to device-owners. Aug 06 14:17:00 BryceLeo|Work: yeah i didnt realise that the command was so simple Aug 06 14:17:36 (I've since bought the same kb as his, waiting for my neo (expected tomorrow)) Aug 06 14:17:44 * xzcvczx wishes the :0 xsession has vnc enabled Aug 06 14:18:29 xzcvczx: no worries it happens Aug 06 14:18:50 Good luck daxxar ! Aug 06 14:18:53 daxx where did you buy that kb? Aug 06 14:19:08 BryceLeo|Work: Norwegian webshop. :-) Aug 06 14:19:16 SpeedEvil: Thanks. :-) Aug 06 14:19:23 is that the little credit-card sized one? Aug 06 14:19:26 Yep Aug 06 14:19:31 opinion? Aug 06 14:19:37 daxxar: got a link to a pic Aug 06 14:19:55 I've tested it a bit with my current phone, but I'm not impressed. That's most likely due to the kb-support in WM5 Smartphone ed. Aug 06 14:20:03 xzcvczx: Hum Aug 06 14:20:24 or just who makes it or something and i can google it Aug 06 14:20:28 http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/images/freedom_mini3.jpg Aug 06 14:20:32 daxxar how much was it? Aug 06 14:20:58 Well, I bounced my phone onto conrete - hard Aug 06 14:21:12 And it's about a cm longer than a credit-card Aug 06 14:21:41 noiddd: Can you put it on the wiki - under Neo1973 Drop Test? Aug 06 14:21:46 And I hope it's OK. Aug 06 14:21:46 Sure Aug 06 14:21:53 yeah - not even a scratch Aug 06 14:22:01 the back came off and the barrery came out Aug 06 14:22:04 height, speed, surface Aug 06 14:22:07 but no scratches or anything Aug 06 14:22:34 I payed $63 inc. VAT ex. shipping, BryceLeo|Work Aug 06 14:22:53 (including batteries too, and a small pouch/case) Aug 06 14:23:11 daxxar wow that's a good price Aug 06 14:23:13 Personally I'd be more interested in this BT keyboard: http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/4070-bluetoothkeyboard.jpg Aug 06 14:23:21 Anyone got it by chance? Aug 06 14:23:30 abraxa_: Got a better pic? Aug 06 14:23:45 BryceLeo|Work: 'tis OK, let's just hope it holds up. ;-) Aug 06 14:23:56 SpeedEvil: do you have a page name for the droptest page, the wiki search is not being helpful Aug 06 14:24:16 noiddd: I was meaning create a page. Aug 06 14:24:19 I'll make one Aug 06 14:24:51 daxxar: http://www.freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=30 appears to be the manufacturer Aug 06 14:25:02 hm, my openembedded environment fails at bitbake and glibc-intermediate-2.6-r0. should I do a update or could anything else be the problem? Aug 06 14:25:33 abraxa_: Yes Aug 06 14:25:46 abraxa_: Oh, sorry. I thought you were talking about the one mjr has. :-) Aug 06 14:25:51 abraxa_: Cool, same manufacturer. ;-) Aug 06 14:25:57 haha nice Aug 06 14:26:03 16:10 < rwhitby> thomasg_: for OM2007.2 builds, you can use the nslu2-linux Master Makefile and just "make openmoko" :-) Aug 06 14:26:11 hehe Aug 06 14:26:12 what mtn version do i need here? Aug 06 14:26:31 with mtn 0.35 i have to migrate the file Aug 06 14:26:31 I use monotone 0.35 Aug 06 14:26:37 and this takes years Aug 06 14:26:42 mh Aug 06 14:26:53 abraxa_: Though it seems that one is SPP - which AFAIK means it has issues with multiple simultaneous keypresses. Aug 06 14:26:55 thomasg_: you use the nslu2 makefile? Aug 06 14:27:02 borg_: then fetch snapshot for 0.35 monotone Aug 06 14:27:09 no, I'm building directly from org.oe.dev, what should be similar Aug 06 14:27:23 daxxar: What's the alternative to SPP? Aug 06 14:27:44 hrw: so there is no difference in the nslu2-linux.mtn? Aug 06 14:27:49 rwhitby: and what are you still doing up? isn't it well past pumpkin time for you? Aug 06 14:28:28 borg_: nslu2-linux project syncs with OE Aug 06 14:28:41 abraxa_: HID Profile, afaik Aug 06 14:28:46 ah ok Aug 06 14:28:49 so i can trick him ;) Aug 06 14:28:50 thx Aug 06 14:29:18 daxxar: Ahh, thanks Aug 06 14:29:54 mdt: as best i know no one is cramming 480x640 lcd's down at that size Aug 06 14:30:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Robustness Aug 06 14:30:44 hahaha Aug 06 14:31:03 lol Aug 06 14:31:35 SpeedEvil, I never would give my neo to you :P Aug 06 14:31:52 Why not? Aug 06 14:32:25 * CM adds rwhitby's chest to pavement drop Aug 06 14:32:28 I fear you would test 2m Aug 06 14:32:37 SpeedEvil: ;) Aug 06 14:32:46 downloading http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-0.35.mtn.bz2 and renaming it to nslu2-linux.mtn seems to work Aug 06 14:32:49 nice :) Aug 06 14:32:53 This is solely incidental drops Aug 06 14:33:09 lol so no "does it blend" tests Aug 06 14:33:14 haha Aug 06 14:33:24 They have to do a 'does it blend'-test for the Neo :P Aug 06 14:33:33 See if it lasts any longer than the iPhone ;P Aug 06 14:33:36 my neo didnt boot this morning i think probably a drained battery...how long should i wait plugged in via usb before trying to boot it u think? i read 4 hours i think on the wiki? Aug 06 14:33:37 :D Aug 06 14:34:08 "Horizontal velocity", how're one supposed to measure that? Aug 06 14:34:20 any ideas? http://phpfi.com/254669 (bitbake fails at glibc-intermediate) Aug 06 14:34:26 daxxar angular measure 9.8m/s^2 Aug 06 14:35:11 BryceLeo|Work: What if there's an unknown vertical component too? Aug 06 14:35:17 ;-) Aug 06 14:35:51 zedstar: it should boot in 30 min or under. Aug 06 14:35:56 * xzcvczx thinks they should have put adventure on the moko Aug 06 14:36:04 daxxar lol if you added downard positive vercial velocity then... well.. guess? Aug 06 14:36:28 speedevil thanx....gonna give a try i thought 4 hours was a bit much! Aug 06 14:36:48 rwhitby: I added you: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Robustness Aug 06 14:36:54 * * OM Bug 688 has been created by  Aug 06 14:36:55 * * uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r12_ec06b2731b0a8303f546901635a6e8da0ea97613_0_2632-do_quilt Aug 06 14:36:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=688 Aug 06 14:37:03 openmoko: 03njp * r2649 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 06 14:37:03 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 14:37:03 openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: Aug 06 14:37:03 openmoko: Added a default ringtone (until sound themes are finished). Aug 06 14:37:03 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (on_filesrc_eos), Aug 06 14:37:05 openmoko: (moko_notify_start_ringtone), (moko_notify_stop_ringtone), Aug 06 14:37:09 openmoko: (moko_notify_start), (moko_notify_stop): Aug 06 14:37:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Robustness]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] [[OSvS]] [[Wish_List]] [[User_talk:Secureoffice]] [[User:Kensan]] [[User_talk:Kensan]] and other changes Aug 06 14:37:35 Ok, I want my money back, the phone is next to useless :) Aug 06 14:37:47 kewl...its back alive....not sure why it drained...is the only way to turn off properly holding down power? i think i did quick power button press then selected shutdown last time Aug 06 14:38:34 zedstar: unsure. Aug 06 14:39:05 mmazur: Are you suprised? o. Aug 06 14:39:06 o.0 Aug 06 14:39:33 mmazur: not true, i've already managed to impress 3 persons and my Neo wasnt even on :) Aug 06 14:39:39 my mom wants one Aug 06 14:39:47 she said it is cute Aug 06 14:39:49 I was unable to figure out what the interface actually does. Aug 06 14:40:01 mmazur: you can also use the phone as time killer getting things to work ;) Aug 06 14:40:02 I'm a damn geek and got confused. Aug 06 14:40:23 mmazur: you were warned.. Aug 06 14:40:38 Ah, if only I had time to play with it :( Aug 06 14:40:43 Commit stuff, send back patches. Aug 06 14:40:50 *sniff* Aug 06 14:41:11 mmazur: Anyway, I hear they're reworking the UI a bit in 2007.2 Aug 06 14:41:12 mmazur :- sell it to someone who realy needs it ;) Aug 06 14:41:25 mmazur: Which is supposedly will be released shortly. Aug 06 14:41:25 CM: I think damage: none is a bit an understatement - he did say that it scratch his case pretty badly :) Aug 06 14:41:37 scratched* Aug 06 14:42:39 abraxa_: Yes, I'd assume a scratch or two too, but I'm hoping rwhitby is in the mood to fix it ;) Aug 06 14:42:53 Or I'll ask for details later Aug 06 14:42:59 hehe okay Aug 06 14:43:19 It's got cool headphones though. Aug 06 14:43:57 As soon as I figure out how to turn of display and get gprs working and turn off charging via usb (hope that's doable), I'll start using it as a gprs modem. Aug 06 14:44:27 mmazur: why not use it as gps while your at it Aug 06 14:44:55 And the maps? Aug 06 14:45:08 well just a gps for your lappy Aug 06 14:45:11 or whatever\ Aug 06 14:45:20 so have your laptop handle the maps Aug 06 14:45:40 see manually using gprs on the wiki Aug 06 14:45:44 Ah, yes, that too. Aug 06 14:46:33 have you kept supplied screen protector on? Aug 06 14:46:38 SpeedEvil, any info on turning off charging? When I'm on battery, I don't want my phone to drain my laptop batteries. Aug 06 14:46:48 mmazur: I'm unsure. Aug 06 14:46:53 aloril2, me? No. Aug 06 14:46:57 I know you can cut the red wire in a USB lead. Aug 06 14:47:01 That's not optimal though. Aug 06 14:47:05 Yeah. Aug 06 14:47:08 mmazur: jsut put it in low power mode and it will only use 100mA Aug 06 14:47:17 well low charging mode Aug 06 14:47:32 It only uses 200mA or so fully on. Aug 06 14:47:39 If it's not charging battery Aug 06 14:48:01 Not charging battery is the point. Preventing it from doing so. Aug 06 14:48:14 I doubt I can evade the usb link using *some* power. Aug 06 14:48:20 mmazur: its in /sys/ Aug 06 14:48:43 mmazur: read wiki - battery stuff is there Aug 06 14:48:55 mmazur: and 2007 software suxx. 2007.2 is nice Aug 06 14:49:17 And it's available... where? :) Aug 06 14:49:25 or rather - when? Aug 06 14:50:14 rather when. Aug 06 14:51:03 I prefer to not share images due to fact that I work for OpenedHand company which is writing 2007.2 stuff Aug 06 14:51:54 mmazur: it won't charge the battery once it's charged Aug 06 14:52:53 mmazur: and it should be able to be done on other side too - laptop on battery should limit amount of power on usb ports Aug 06 14:55:17 doesn't bitbake support protocol svn+ssh:? Aug 06 14:57:10 oh, sorry, answered the question myself... hm. bitbake wants svn: in front anyway. Aug 06 14:58:55 Erm. Aug 06 14:58:56 openmoko: 03njp * r2650 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-notify.c): Aug 06 14:58:56 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 14:58:56 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (moko_notify_start_ringtone): Aug 06 14:58:56 openmoko: Try and use the simple commandline gst parser. Aug 06 14:59:02 So what is the status of the official firmware? Aug 06 14:59:10 (the one called, you know, 'openmoko') Aug 06 14:59:17 firmware as all the userspace stuff Aug 06 15:01:53 * aloril2 suspects Neo1973 would sell for $500 or even $1000 at ebay Aug 06 15:01:53 * aloril2 definitely won't sell his Neo1973 Aug 06 15:02:49 * xzcvczx slaps aloril2 with a giant fish for even speculating Aug 06 15:03:13 #nslu2-linux Aug 06 15:03:27 sorry. type wrongly Aug 06 15:03:38 * mwester suspects they will be much cheaper on eBay the closer it gets to P2... Aug 06 15:04:09 * xzcvczx will frame his p1 when he gets a p2.... that or just make it a bluetooth gps receiver Aug 06 15:04:46 xzcvczx: make a transparent block of resin and p1 inside of it Aug 06 15:05:06 raynet: hmmm good idea Aug 06 15:06:37 keep it, protect it. in 2050, they'll be collector's items! One of the first 1000 free phones! Aug 06 15:07:03 * Kero bets noone will use anything resembling a phone by 2050 ... Aug 06 15:07:23 Kero: they will all resemble female adult toys Aug 06 15:07:37 Kero: yeah, we'll be driving our iCars and live in iHouses Aug 06 15:08:30 Only some. The rest will live in Microsoft Home, and drive Microsoft Transports, on our way to Microsoft Office. Aug 06 15:08:51 and a handful are building OpenHouses Aug 06 15:09:56 whii, neo flashed, now perhaps it boots Aug 06 15:10:01 driving OpenCars to their OpenOffice ? Aug 06 15:10:20 * aloril2 hasn't heard about Neo1973 actually being available at ebay Aug 06 15:10:22 I wonder how power management is going Aug 06 15:10:46 what happened with the Neo-on-ebay-before-P1-was-available ? Aug 06 15:10:55 noiddd: i think that is one of the things that i am least worried about.... i am more looking forward to sms/call then it will be my phone Aug 06 15:10:58 someone intended to file a complaint at ebay :) Aug 06 15:11:01 kero looks like it got delisted Aug 06 15:11:16 why would you want it de-listed? Aug 06 15:11:29 noiddd: 'coz given the description, it was a fake Aug 06 15:12:03 someone selling a Neo that apparently had working software Aug 06 15:13:06 Wow, we should have bought it just so we could get the working image :-) Aug 06 15:16:08 noiddd: :D Aug 06 15:16:15 * xzcvczx thinks someone should invest in 50 neos and make a super computer :P Aug 06 15:16:37 xzcvczx: yeah, I kind of wanted to say everone who doesn't have one want's it eagerly and rest are protecting their 'preciousness' Aug 06 15:17:26 xzcvczx: 1000 Neos in a Beowulf cluster, communicating over... GPRS ?!? Aug 06 15:17:35 yeah Aug 06 15:17:40 no, silly; they'd be in proximity, so bluetooth! Aug 06 15:17:59 mjr: what, all 1000 P1s? Aug 06 15:18:15 Kero: no they use headphone/microfone :P Aug 06 15:18:20 Hey wow! OpenMoko has finally acknowledged that there's a problem with demand vs supply! http://direct.openmoko.com Aug 06 15:18:55 didn't they do that on the lists ages ago? Aug 06 15:19:02 (ah well, good to have it there too, of course) Aug 06 15:19:32 With this product that's great news. Aug 06 15:19:33 Perhaps, but nothing with actuall, real, dates. Aug 06 15:20:11 Kero, ah, I was talking about if someone bought a whole bunch of them for clustering. Of course no bt if you'd just want to Beowulf the existing scattered Neos... Aug 06 15:21:38 Hmm... would be cheaper if one could connect to a farm of Linux compute servers as needed. Aug 06 15:22:13 (also, a thousand Neos in proximity might just have problems with talking over bluetooth) Aug 06 15:22:17 neo-grid Aug 06 15:22:29 let's make a cluster of qemu neo's! whee! ;) Aug 06 15:22:47 lol Aug 06 15:23:01 Hadaka: two is easy on my dual-core :) Aug 06 15:24:49 tip for anybody who didn't see it already: [[Bootloader]] page has fast charge example: if you want to use Neo1973 at same time as its charging from *dumb* USB charger: Aug 06 15:25:18 Actually, neo's in proximity can provide some valuable information, even if not compute. Consider a conference room -- if a number of Neo's can communicate their ring-status, it would allow a Neo entering the room to automatically go on vibrate like the others... Aug 06 15:26:31 has anyone faced the problem of the neo's battery failure? Aug 06 15:26:39 add that entry without backlight off, then turn Neo1973 on so that you go to u-boot menu first, then select fast charge, then boot: fast charge from *dumb* USB charger while using Neo1973 Aug 06 15:27:05 humm, what is the easiest way to recalibrate the screen? Aug 06 15:27:26 running the calibration program from CLI, but I don't recall its name Aug 06 15:27:35 :) Aug 06 15:27:59 ts_calibrate Aug 06 15:28:07 or 'DISPLAY=:0 xtscal' Aug 06 15:28:16 or remove /etc/pointercal and restart X11 Aug 06 15:28:30 jipi: just leave it on normal smart USB port that can offer 500mA for 0.5-2h and then it should have enough juice to boot and turn fast charge on automatically Aug 06 15:29:10 aloril2: thanks! Aug 06 15:29:44 (dumb charger doesn't work: it'l charge enough, then get on, use power while in X11 and turn off) Aug 06 15:32:07 aloril2: does laptop usb ports usually have 500mA? Aug 06 15:32:11 Does anybody know the status about SyncML/Funambol integration? Aug 06 15:33:59 SpeedEvil.StandardSoftwareAnswer() Aug 06 15:35:17 Elrond: do you know if the client-side is going to be implemented by Funambol, O-Hand or the community/FIC? Aug 06 15:36:31 jipi: probably, depends maybe if you some other device draining 500mA Aug 06 15:37:12 Kensan - MY personal GUESS is o-hand. But I can't cite anything to proof my GUESS. Aug 06 15:37:42 mhh funambol was listed as partner and fic does need the client only, imho? Aug 06 15:37:52 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch Aug 06 15:38:01 Who's "funambol"? Aug 06 15:38:31 Elrond: k, thanks. Funambol has an opensource SyncML-Server and is partnering with FIC. Aug 06 15:38:43 aloril2: ok i'll try. lucky i got a bl-5c Aug 06 15:38:50 funambol also has syncml clients Aug 06 15:39:02 in j2me for one Aug 06 15:40:36 buz: true, but it would be more natural to fully integrate that into the phone instead of looking at it as an "add-on" Aug 06 15:40:39 Kensan - I think, the contacts app will be written by o-hand. But as above: I have no source to cite on this. So this goes down to PERSONAL GUESS. Aug 06 15:41:10 well funambol would know a lot about syncml Aug 06 15:41:20 there's also the opensync stack Aug 06 15:41:29 Maybe they'll partner with o-hand? Aug 06 15:41:30 but last time i checked opensync, it was dangerous to use Aug 06 15:41:48 maybe funambol writes a lib of some sort Aug 06 15:42:03 funabol is great Aug 06 15:42:09 if a little quirky Aug 06 15:42:23 Kensan - If you intend to help, contact mickey. He should know where to go. Aug 06 15:42:54 syncml in general seems quirky Aug 06 15:43:03 Elrond: so little time, so much to do :) Aug 06 15:43:04 havent seen an unquirky implementation yet Aug 06 15:43:40 Elrond: was more wondering about the status etc because some people I know were asking. Aug 06 15:43:52 if you want to see a crap one, look at the p910i Aug 06 15:44:24 thankfully, as i discovered recently, the neo fits in the p910i's hip pouch thing perfectly... Aug 06 15:44:47 I soooo look forward to the day I can throw that pos 910 at a wall Aug 06 15:45:06 my p900 has served me well Aug 06 15:46:11 the p800 was impressing it's time, but I played around with the new p990i and it really sucks Aug 06 15:46:30 the p990 sucessor looks neat Aug 06 15:46:34 but uiq in general is crap Aug 06 15:46:34 oki, fastest way to calibrate it was via flashin it again, i was able to use only top 2/3 of the screen, but now it seems ok Aug 06 15:47:31 apparently the 990 is worse buz Aug 06 15:47:48 yeah the 990 is said to be one of the buggiest phones ever Aug 06 15:47:53 which probably explains why it is so cheap Aug 06 15:48:04 what's up with the unproper edits of P1_Owners-page? Aug 06 15:48:09 ~400EUR for it would be a very nice deal Aug 06 15:48:16 at they don't seem to want to fix the bugs either buz Aug 06 15:48:21 Kensan - software status: """ Basheri: basically at the moment for almost all software questions, the answer is "no, unless you write it or convince someone to write it' - there is very little software there.""" Aug 06 15:48:26 its sony, what do you expect Aug 06 15:48:49 buz: a dcma takedown notice ;) Aug 06 15:49:02 or a root kit Aug 06 15:50:00 i wonder if vaio ships with root kit preinstalled Aug 06 15:50:17 Ericsson R380S was very good one with snappy its Symbian 5, too bad you couldn't run your own programs on it. still had the best WAP browser ever Aug 06 15:50:18 Kensan - The beo is a very nice developer toy. currently. Aug 06 15:50:38 i never ONCE used wap Aug 06 15:51:06 r380s is the shark fin heavy duty one right? Aug 06 15:51:19 I once wrote WAP pages Aug 06 15:51:26 Elrond: yeah I know. That's why I bought one ;) Aug 06 15:51:51 writing wap pages suxx Aug 06 15:52:25 hrw: oh, they were so much fun :) Aug 06 15:52:41 really? Aug 06 15:53:02 deck needs to be smaller then 1500 bytes, very limited markup Aug 06 15:53:09 yup Aug 06 15:53:11 which makes it good Aug 06 15:53:31 and add to that fact that each phone handle wap in other way... Aug 06 15:53:31 later phones ever supported color images :) Aug 06 15:53:44 that m$ windows wap emulators ignore size limit.. Aug 06 15:54:27 I had to write page which gave programme for festival - over 300 entries == 30-40 decks Aug 06 15:54:46 i think i wrote dozen games and published some 500 comic strips with WML, so it was fairly successful thing for me Aug 06 15:55:38 not that i actually ever wrote actual WML files, all were automagically created by my software, bigger decks for phones that could support them and colors where they could be shown etc Aug 06 15:56:09 though i did prefer imode over wap Aug 06 15:58:00 raynet: it was first time when someone at that company wrote wap page Aug 06 15:58:31 raynet: and it was ~year/two ago so most of phones were able to do html Aug 06 15:59:34 hrw: :) Aug 06 15:59:46 openmoko: 03njp * r2651 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-notify.c): Aug 06 15:59:46 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 15:59:46 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (on_bin_eos), (moko_notify_start_ringtone): Aug 06 15:59:46 openmoko: Added intial support for looping the ringtone. Aug 06 16:10:02 did everyone with base kit get a guitar pick? Aug 06 16:10:19 xzcvczx: it is not needed for base stuff Aug 06 16:10:36 xzcvczx: it is needed to open case when you plan to connect debugboard Aug 06 16:11:43 hrw|gone: lol well i got a guitar pick with my base Aug 06 16:12:40 xzcvczx: me too Aug 06 16:12:58 xzcvczx: branded the same as the headset Aug 06 16:13:04 what is the best way to try out openmoko on a PC?(somewhat confused by the wiki)(using ubuntu 7.04), can I use the normal QEMU that are in the ubuntu repositories and a rootfs image for openmoko? Aug 06 16:13:25 raynet: lol you looked closer than i did.... i just assumed it was unbranded Aug 06 16:13:35 the_void: just get mokomakefile and do make qemu Aug 06 16:14:36 w00t, managed to make a call Aug 06 16:14:47 (The normal qemu doesnt emulate all the neo hardware.) and hello btw... :-) Aug 06 16:24:43 xzcvczx: I did Aug 06 16:24:49 It was in the bag with the headset Aug 06 16:25:15 Can anyone with hardware check that /dev/input/event0 does not spit out events for the headset button Aug 06 16:25:23 It doesn't seem to for me, though it should Aug 06 16:25:31 hexdump -C /dev/input/event0 Aug 06 16:25:42 do you have X running? Aug 06 16:25:54 (and are you running hexdump inside or outside X?) Aug 06 16:26:03 Don't think that matters - it reads the touchscreen evdev fine Aug 06 16:26:10 and also reads the 'top' button Aug 06 16:26:16 and the jack insertion 'button'. Aug 06 16:26:20 'k. Aug 06 16:26:22 just not the 'hold' button Aug 06 16:26:39 (X performs the grab ioctl on input devices, so you often lose if you're trying to read them while X is running.) Aug 06 16:27:01 I'm wondering if it's software, my headset being faulty, or a hardware feature. Aug 06 16:27:09 cjb: xev doesnt do it for him either though Aug 06 16:28:15 yes, doesn't sound like that's involved here Aug 06 16:28:45 although xev doesn't tell you if you have inputdev input, only if you have inputdev that's hoomed up properly to X KeySyms. Aug 06 16:28:51 s/hoomed/hooked/ Aug 06 16:28:51 cjb meant: although xev doesn't tell you if you have inputdev input, only if you have inputdev that's hooked up properly to X KeySyms. Aug 06 16:29:05 yeah - hexdump -C eventfile works fine though Aug 06 16:29:23 openmoko: 03njp * r2652 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-notify.c): Aug 06 16:29:23 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 16:29:23 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (on_bus_message), Aug 06 16:29:23 openmoko: (moko_notify_start_ringtone): Aug 06 16:29:23 openmoko: Some more looping fixes. Aug 06 16:29:23 yeah Aug 06 16:29:28 * SpeedEvil thinks. Hexdump on a phone. Aug 06 16:29:29 :) Aug 06 16:35:08 openmoko: 03njp * r2653 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-notify.c): Aug 06 16:35:08 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 16:35:08 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (on_bus_message): Aug 06 16:35:08 openmoko: Connect to the right signals! Aug 06 16:36:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Technical:P2P_Radio]] [[OSvS]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User_talk:Secureoffice]] Aug 06 16:36:42 dialer2 ? Aug 06 16:38:00 All the apps now have a number 2 after them. Aug 06 16:38:14 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Aug 06 16:40:48 Hi. Aug 06 16:42:42 Just managed to input like 10 times the wrong pin. Aug 06 16:42:52 I *really* hope that the >3 times were not counted as puk. Aug 06 16:42:57 Othwerise, I'm in trouble. Aug 06 16:45:09 mmazur: you know, I would get a prepaid for testing a developer version phone. that way there is a limit on how much damage you can cause. Aug 06 16:49:06 Jiten, I'm not dumb enough to use my primary number :) I have a second sim card with gprs on it, that I keep inside my gprs modem. Aug 06 16:49:16 Good thing I won't be needing gprs anytime soon. Aug 06 16:50:36 mmazur: I wouldn't call that trouble then :P an annoyance. Aug 06 16:51:18 * ScaredyCat_ stabs ups just one more time Aug 06 16:56:47 openmoko: 03njp * r2654 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-notify.c): Aug 06 16:56:47 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Neil J. Patel Aug 06 16:56:47 openmoko: * src/moko-notify.c: (on_bus_eos), (moko_notify_start_ringtone): Aug 06 16:56:47 openmoko: More loop deugging. Aug 06 16:57:47 does anyone know what is this libgcc-s-dev? Aug 06 16:58:24 jipi - probably contains libgcc_s.so. ;-) Aug 06 16:58:26 ... and .a Aug 06 17:00:26 Elrond: i'm trying to build and it just stops at http://pastebin.com/d568413fe Aug 06 17:01:05 maybe i shd just use the MokoMakefile Aug 06 17:04:36 should we use bitbake 1.6x or 1.8x? Aug 06 17:05:37 gosh. there's quite a lot of people here Aug 06 17:05:47 mokomakefile is really easy Aug 06 17:06:02 Use MokoMakefile, unless you have a good reason not to use it. Aug 06 17:06:40 yes. I'm running it now. I think it at least ensures every developer uses the same build environment Aug 06 17:06:52 yes.... Aug 06 17:07:57 runing MokoMakefile, on a train and downloading everything takes a lot of time, download speed jumps between 3kb/s to 80 kb/s Aug 06 17:09:04 meh, just make everyone use debian experimental. :) Aug 06 17:09:04 it took me ~15 hours on a 3.2GHz dual core x86_64, 2GB of ram and a 6Mbit internet connection Aug 06 17:09:49 Does anyone happen to know of a bluetooth controllable camera? Aug 06 17:09:58 fake multitouch idea: put one finger to object, then do gesture with other finger Aug 06 17:10:02 take pictures, and view them over bt? Aug 06 17:10:32 the neo support multi touch ? Aug 06 17:10:36 no Aug 06 17:10:37 No. Aug 06 17:10:52 leppoc, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo19734 Aug 06 17:10:52 too bad ;) Aug 06 17:10:54 lol Aug 06 17:10:55 leppoc, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Aug 06 17:11:25 examples: selelect word/etc.. in browser then search, copy, translate, etc.. with it Aug 06 17:12:12 have anyone tried to use distcc with MokoMakefile? Aug 06 17:12:19 2) click on change task + quick gesture to select certain task Aug 06 17:13:24 3-N) basically M button mouse clicks where M is number of gestures Aug 06 17:13:45 mm, now i have a stupid question, where is the splash image binary file? Aug 06 17:13:53 i accidentally wrote the kernel over it by mistake Aug 06 17:14:05 oops Aug 06 17:14:26 yeah, definite oops there ~_~ Aug 06 17:14:27 aloril: using the mic, with n sung notes, it's m*n buttons! Aug 06 17:14:43 wow. the soldout notice finally got people pissed off. Aug 06 17:14:51 not as bad as installing arm libc last night though Aug 06 17:15:40 which version of the dialer works? Aug 06 17:22:46 leppoc: talking about *fake* multitouch: when 'mouse' is *down* and then *suddenly* jumps to average of 2 finger -> decode that as multitouch Aug 06 17:23:54 (Neo1973 touch screen behaves this way: it reports average of fingers (visually tested it)) Aug 06 17:24:43 yay, got my neo going again Aug 06 17:28:18 oh, nice idea aloril2 :) Aug 06 17:28:54 if the touchpad detects physically 2 positions, does it takes the average between two to send to the software ? Aug 06 17:30:57 http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/zaurus/mplayer/mplayer-arm920t-try2 Aug 06 17:31:12 think that one should be at least same speed as the old one Aug 06 17:31:24 SpeedEvil: hehe, or even M^K buttons, where K is limit of patience in user for making gestures with second finger while keeping first one down Aug 06 17:34:03 leppoc: I think it would be more accurate to say that it detects average f 2 touches Aug 06 17:34:26 s/ f / of / Aug 06 17:34:26 aloril2 meant: leppoc: I think it would be more accurate to say that it detects average of 2 touches Aug 06 17:34:32 it includes mp3lib by default (?) Aug 06 17:34:36 so force mad with -afm libmad Aug 06 17:35:46 libmad, libsane, libwicked, libmental Aug 06 17:36:00 * anrp goes with -liberty D: Aug 06 17:37:03 leppoc: if I remember corectly a touchpad is using resistance to calculate where the user points Aug 06 17:37:11 who knew that -fomit-frame-pointer would cause such a large speedup? Aug 06 17:38:12 there's still that oddity with decimal points missing in output, i'll try rebuilding uclibc with an earlier version Aug 06 17:38:18 ?? Aug 06 17:38:41 mickey_away: does that mean there is information forthcoming on HXD8? Aug 06 17:38:51 ./mplayer-arm920t-try2 RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -vo null -ao null -ac null -benchmark Aug 06 17:38:55 BENCHMARKs: VC: 66413s VO: 0054s A: 0000s Sys: 9675s = 76143s Aug 06 17:38:55 BENCHMARK%: VC: 872216% VO: 00714% A: 00000% Sys: 127070% = 1000000% Aug 06 17:39:01 oops Aug 06 17:39:22 the unresolved hardware page in wiki suggests that neo use 115mA in "sleeping" with gsm on...with a 1200mAh battery this calculates to a little more than 10h battery life, am i right? Aug 06 17:39:47 LarstiQ: no. it's still confidental Aug 06 17:39:58 oops D: Aug 06 17:40:07 i changed the wrong channel topic :D Aug 06 17:40:15 ... Aug 06 17:40:18 wot, seekrit channels Aug 06 17:40:18 !! Aug 06 17:40:25 the_void & aloril2: ok. so we can effectivelly do fake multitouch if one finger doens't moove. sweet :D Aug 06 17:41:05 leppoc: somewhat yes Aug 06 17:41:30 ./mplayer-opt-fm RL_MQB_320x240_512_128.avi -vo null -ao null -ac null -benchmark -lavdopts idct=7 Aug 06 17:41:34 BENCHMARKs: VC: 63.969s VO: 0.126s A: 0.000s Sys: 8.759s = 72.854s Aug 06 17:41:35 BENCHMARK%: VC: 87.8046% VO: 0.1727% A: 0.0000% Sys: 12.0226% = 100.0000% Aug 06 17:41:38 mickey_away: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 first hit on google when typed HXD8..... quite confidential.... Aug 06 17:41:39 old one is still faster... hmm Aug 06 17:41:47 leppoc: the problem is to detect what is ha multitouch and a fast drag Aug 06 17:42:26 tHe_IkkE: shrug nothing secret about the codename. it's the product and the customer that we can't disclose yet. Aug 06 17:42:28 tHe_IkkE: well, I would not expect that string to sit on every second page on the internet:) Aug 06 17:43:18 mickey_away: is there any known date when it will be a bit less confidental? :) Aug 06 17:43:24 mickey_away, mmp: True, I just found it funny.... my sense of humor I guess.... Aug 06 17:43:35 tHe_IkkE: :) Aug 06 17:43:36 mmp: no idea sorry, that is due to the customer. Aug 06 17:44:07 mickey_away: np, I was just curious:) One sees some hardware and just guesses what that could be:) Aug 06 17:44:17 my gut feeling is somewhere within the next 4 months. Aug 06 17:44:31 but i'm not involved with hxd8 anyways. Aug 06 17:44:36 bbiab, having dinner Aug 06 17:44:46 mickey_away: bon apetit:) Aug 06 17:44:57 and thanks for info Aug 06 17:45:30 mickey_away: smecklich essen! (Hope he understands my german...) Aug 06 17:46:02 so how many fic projects are you working on at the same time mickey_away ? Aug 06 17:46:33 ScaredyCat_: Lets see, dinner, Neo, uhm... nevermind... Aug 06 17:51:34 tHe_IkkE: one would say "Guten Appetit" in germany ;) Aug 06 17:52:04 So, uh, what's the deal on the shipping? Nothing beyond 2464 appears to have been billed or shipped. Aug 06 17:53:49 xzcvczx: i did Aug 06 17:54:05 borg_: It's all coming back now..... It's been a few years since I last went to Germany... Aug 06 17:54:47 :D Aug 06 17:57:42 the_void: I susoects its hard to make so sudden jump with one finger Aug 06 17:57:47 orospakr: 4035 and 4104 seem to have been billed Aug 06 18:00:04 btw, any ideas about shipping of billed phones? Last week there should be second batch of phones in USA, but I wonder what happened then... Aug 06 18:00:24 iirc we got no info about phones sent so far... . Aug 06 18:01:04 * CM will get the Neo delivered to work tomorrow :D Aug 06 18:01:27 CM, sweet! Aug 06 18:04:18 CM, just missed it myself ...got home from vacation this afternoon, and saw that they tried to do first delivery attempt a couple of hours earlier...it'll come tomorrow though Aug 06 18:04:23 * Kero will get his Neo delivered to work tomorrow, for the second attempt... Aug 06 18:04:36 after two attempts at my home... Aug 06 18:04:50 * ScaredyCat_ fakes being Kero Aug 06 18:04:55 aloril2: the only way to know for sure is to try to implement fake multitouch, only have a touchpad that is behaving like a mouse and dont know if it is the realy the same Aug 06 18:05:08 it's getting highly annoying. Aug 06 18:05:40 I'll finally have my Neo, but no time to play with it until the end of the month *sigh* Aug 06 18:06:41 jeddy3: Same here, back today at 11, they were here 10.35.. Aug 06 18:07:03 heh, yeah, missed mine on Fri with about 10 minutes... Aug 06 18:07:06 jeddy3: Driving Umeå-Gothenburg is a pain! :-P (1100km for ppl who don't know) Aug 06 18:07:25 CM, :S Aug 06 18:08:37 CM: Gothenburg = Göteborg? Aug 06 18:08:44 Vegar, nod Aug 06 18:08:48 * LarstiQ failed at posting a comment to jouston's blog Aug 06 18:09:06 the_void: do you have a Neo1973? If yes, try it. In my tries fast movement by finger looks delayed and curvy and jittery while second point creates instant straight line: visually at least very different Aug 06 18:09:36 mmp: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners, that batch clearly showed up there Aug 06 18:09:44 (try Stroke Recognizer keyboard for example) Aug 06 18:10:38 aloril2: dont have money to buy both version, so i am wating for the next release ( going to try to get work to buy one for me) Aug 06 18:11:28 LarstiQ: doesn't seem to be optimistic, we had a little problem with payment, and if other payments were confirmed already around 22th... . Aug 06 18:11:38 I hope we managed to get to the 2nd batch... Aug 06 18:11:59 mmp: that depends a bit on what order # you have Aug 06 18:12:33 well, so far I don't know any, the one who ordered phones is three hops from me in social relations network:) Aug 06 18:13:01 mmp: do you know the order date? Aug 06 18:13:31 not sure, the payment was confirmed about week ago... Aug 06 18:14:08 on 22th they were definitely ordered Aug 06 18:14:11 mmp: FIC charged you a week ago? Aug 06 18:14:16 yes Aug 06 18:14:34 due some problems with payment... Aug 06 18:14:49 mmp: okay, next question is where you are having the phones shipped to Aug 06 18:15:14 Central Europe, either Vienna (Austria) or Bratislava (Slovakia) Aug 06 18:15:55 mmp: then I'd wager roughly two weeks before they arrive Aug 06 18:16:27 mmp: based on similar data glanced from that page that is, don't hold me to that prediction :) Aug 06 18:16:37 It's still better than \infty :) Aug 06 18:16:38 the_void: sorry to hear, Neo1973 is much fun ;-) Aug 06 18:17:21 mmp: if you do find out your order numbers, feel free to fill in a spot on P1_Owners Aug 06 18:18:21 LarstiQ: I'll try, but my request will probably wander through few people, so I wonder whether I'll first see neo or the order number:) Aug 06 18:18:35 aloril2: yhea looks realy fun, trying to get a headstart on software and development enviroment now Aug 06 18:30:09 whats the best way to commit some openmoko related changes to .bb files? Aug 06 18:31:49 JadeFalcon: Commit in what sense? Aug 06 18:33:52 huh, with lowres i get it going much faster Aug 06 18:34:06 I changed some stuff in the scummvm receipt and i created a startup script that rotates the screen and map the AUX Key to F5. I can play now Monkey Island on my Neo. So where should i put this .bb? :-) Aug 06 18:34:09 no surprise there tho Aug 06 18:35:17 Has anyone tried running poky on the gta01? Aug 06 18:36:58 JadeFalcom: It's probably best to create a patch and send it to the original bb author. That way you're not stepping on someone's toes.... Aug 06 18:37:05 * ScaredyCat_ is carrying round so many bits of electronics gizmos that I might have to convert the neo adv case to contain them all .... Aug 06 18:37:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Alabama]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Gothenburg]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Talk:Carriers/ATT]] [[User_talk:Secureoffice]] [[User:Danielmewes]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Duesseldorf]] Aug 06 18:38:25 lol - monkey island... guybrush... Aug 06 18:38:30 I remember that... Aug 06 18:39:01 hmmm.. anyone knows the status of the merge openmoko overlay -> back to openembedded? Aug 06 18:39:07 did anyone tried to display gps data from gllin in google earth? i do knot know what is output data format of gllin... Aug 06 18:39:07 MokoMakefile fails when trying to checkout openmoko from http://svn.openmoko.org/ http://pastebin.com/d2ff261e6 Aug 06 18:39:08 Monkey island 4 or monkey island 3? :P Aug 06 18:39:18 the vga screen is excellent for that game :-) Aug 06 18:39:27 return Aug 06 18:40:09 monkey island!!! zomg! Aug 06 18:40:23 JadeFalcon: It's ready when it's done :) Aug 06 18:40:24 * rushforth eyes light up Aug 06 18:40:25 does sb have a local.conf for me? Aug 06 18:40:30 :-) Aug 06 18:40:57 JadeFalcon: It's less than a week ahead, supposedly Aug 06 18:41:56 rushforth: with ScummVM you can play all kinds of "old-school" Lucas Arts games. Aug 06 18:42:08 ok, then i try to merge the .bb to openembedded... Aug 06 18:42:19 * rushforth loves ScummVM :) Aug 06 18:42:40 JadeFalcon, you can try the #oe channel Aug 06 18:48:17 i've put a quick how-to for building om-2007.2 with nslu2-linux MasterMakefile on the wiki Aug 06 18:48:17 if you are feeling lucky go out and try... but don't hit me if this doesnt build anything usable. my testbuild hasn't finished yet ;) --> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build_using_nslu2-linux_MasterMakefile_.28Ubuntu_7.04.29 Aug 06 18:50:51 C7: one can install mtn 0.35 from gutsy with sudo apt-get -t gutsy install monotone Aug 06 18:51:15 C7: oh, monotone 0.28 is needed for this Aug 06 18:51:23 thats bad :P Aug 06 18:52:14 borg_: yes it is ;) Aug 06 18:52:43 but one can download an image from eine Nachricht an die Kollegen dort. Betreffzeile: "Kommunikations-Durchbruch". Aug 06 18:52:48 arg Aug 06 18:52:48 ? Aug 06 18:52:52 wrong paste :P Aug 06 18:52:53 sry Aug 06 18:53:10 but one can download an image from http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ Aug 06 18:53:12 german is fine too Aug 06 18:53:19 is monkey island freely available now ? Aug 06 18:53:23 create a monotone/ Aug 06 18:53:35 ScaredyCat: unfortunately no... Aug 06 18:53:36 rename the OE.mtn to nslu2-linux.mtn Aug 06 18:53:41 :/ Aug 06 18:53:43 and use whatever monotone you want Aug 06 18:53:46 this works fine Aug 06 18:53:47 i did this Aug 06 18:53:57 you'd think by now they wouldn;t care ... ahh well.. Aug 06 18:55:05 ScaredyCat: indeed. All those games were real gems and were tons of fun to play. Aug 06 18:56:32 borg_: sure you could do this.. but i wanted to keep it simple. feel free to add this way to the how-to Aug 06 18:56:34 yeah .. I'll just dl some of the demos ... Aug 06 18:59:18 * juri_ heads out to pick up her borgware. Aug 06 19:03:04 C7: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build_using_nslu2-linux_MasterMakefile_.28Ubuntu_7.04.29 Aug 06 19:09:17 What happened to all the nice stuff on buildhost?! Aug 06 19:09:40 borg_: thanks.. hmm just that the order is a bit confusing now.. ill put the whole monotone thing near the end.. Aug 06 19:09:53 ok :) Aug 06 19:11:30 C7: the thing that the old monotone versions are a lot slower then the new one Aug 06 19:12:18 hey Aug 06 19:12:25 stefan_schmidt: once again, when are you going to arrive? Aug 06 19:18:38 borg_: better now? Aug 06 19:19:13 C7: nice :) Aug 06 19:19:42 Ugh, I can't bring myself to read the whine/flame-threads on the ML. :-S Aug 06 19:19:54 I guess I'll keep to the constructive posts from now on. Aug 06 19:20:50 Henrikw: Yay, our phones is en route Oslo-Trondheim, ;-) Aug 06 19:20:59 s/is/are/ Aug 06 19:21:00 daxxar meant: Henrikw: Yay, our phones are en route Oslo-Trondheim, ;-) Aug 06 19:21:18 daxxar, I know :) hopefully here tomorrow :D Aug 06 19:21:31 Yep, then they'd actually hit their ETA. :-) Aug 06 19:21:49 They're really efficient with regards to toll / VAT Aug 06 19:21:53 \o/ Aug 06 19:22:08 heh, yeah :) I'm as exited as a kid on christmas eve :p Aug 06 19:22:42 Yeah, me too Aug 06 19:22:48 Can't toy with it till thursday, though. Aug 06 19:22:57 _sure_ :p Aug 06 19:22:59 s/Can/Shouldn/ Aug 06 19:22:59 daxxar meant: Shouldn't toy with it till thursday, though. Aug 06 19:23:02 ;- Aug 06 19:23:04 ;-) Aug 06 19:23:06 hehe ;) Aug 06 19:25:10 daxxar: hmm, did you get "an exeption" on the tracking page aswell? Aug 06 19:28:02 building uboot-openmoko is broken atm. any fix in sight? Aug 06 19:28:51 Hi mickeyl! Aug 06 19:28:58 hey Elrond Aug 06 19:29:00 how are things Aug 06 19:29:23 Fine. Finished my preparations for a short (work related) talk for tomorrow. Finally. Aug 06 19:29:52 rschuster - It's probably due to the CONFIG_CMD_* changes in u-boot. Aug 06 19:30:21 rschuster - going to an old git-release of u-boot should fix it for now. Aug 06 19:31:24 alphaone: you are at the camp site already? Aug 06 19:31:25 rschuster - cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41 is before the config-cfg-update. Aug 06 19:31:51 zecke: yeah Aug 06 19:31:59 Elrond: thanks for the info. I put it in the wiki Aug 06 19:32:15 zecke: shoragan also arrived today Aug 06 19:32:33 tomorrow stefan_schmidt will follow Aug 06 19:32:58 alphaone: do you know if there is space to park a car? Aug 06 19:33:27 zecke: there's a parking lot Aug 06 19:34:07 alphaone: well, do you think there will be free space tomorrow? Aug 06 19:35:04 zecke: yeah, the parking lot is pretty big. There should be place Aug 06 19:35:19 rschuster - You can also file a bug, if you want to. ;-) Aug 06 19:35:33 * Elrond goes for food. Aug 06 19:43:14 where do I find gllin (wasn't on my device as shipped, it shipped without a rootfs) Aug 06 19:43:18 ? Aug 06 19:43:32 anrp: They all ship without rootfs Aug 06 19:44:11 well that makes the GPS mostly-useless Aug 06 19:44:17 :/ Aug 06 19:44:34 FIC is still negotiating the terms of use from what I know... sadly Aug 06 19:44:34 anrp: wouldn't lack of a rootfs make more than just the GPS useless? :P Aug 06 19:45:02 quite possibly D: Aug 06 19:46:03 i wonder if eabi will be faster Aug 06 19:48:00 eabi? Aug 06 19:49:26 the new hotness Aug 06 19:49:28 supposedly Aug 06 19:49:28 ~lart gtk Aug 06 19:49:28 * apt grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats gtk until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with Aug 06 19:49:59 abi = function calling register convention and the like Aug 06 19:50:13 yay, sigill ~_~ Aug 06 19:50:31 something at the compiler level? Aug 06 19:50:39 yeah Aug 06 19:50:43 ok Aug 06 19:50:43 compiler/assembler/linker Aug 06 19:50:46 yes Aug 06 19:50:58 eabi = embedded abi? Aug 06 19:50:59 a bit of in-kernel too since the kernel has to know how arguments are passed to syscall Aug 06 19:51:05 enhanced i think Aug 06 19:51:10 its actually called AAPCS Aug 06 19:51:58 hello Aug 06 19:52:36 ~lart GtkTreePath Aug 06 19:52:36 * apt pours gasoline all over GtkTreePath, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Aug 06 19:53:59 gtk .. D: Aug 06 19:54:04 * anrp throws some gtkmm into the fire Aug 06 19:54:15 * mwester notes some significant rage being directed toward gtk today... Aug 06 19:54:36 gtk is ... interesting Aug 06 19:54:39 * zecke loves gtkmm. moc is bad, we can use m4 at compile time of the bindings to create something less powerful.... Aug 06 19:58:23 mm i wonder if softvfp is faster than softfpa Aug 06 20:00:12 Henrikw: Yes, it does. Aug 06 20:00:21 k, good :p Aug 06 20:00:21 Henrikw: I believe it's because "FORWARDED TO THE FACILITY IN THE DESTINATION CITY" means they've given it to Posten :/ Aug 06 20:01:05 ack, now you have to wait two more weeks for it to arrive Aug 06 20:02:35 "Your package has experienced an exception." Aug 06 20:02:35 hm, should me here around noon then Aug 06 20:02:36 Aye. :-) Aug 06 20:02:45 Anyway, later. Got visitors and studying. :-) Aug 06 20:02:48 see ya Aug 06 20:02:48 Let me know when you get it =) Aug 06 20:02:48 will do Aug 06 20:02:56 whine, openmoko doesn't build Aug 06 20:02:57 hurray, openmoko does now build :) Aug 06 20:03:08 | Applying patch uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 06 20:10:29 2007 Aug 06 20:11:00 when trying to make an update wih mokomakefile I always get:"Zugriff auf „board/neo1973/gta*/split_by_variant.sh“ nicht möglich: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden" which means that the file couldnt be found any hints ? Aug 06 20:11:01 whee Aug 06 20:11:14 wb all Aug 06 20:12:00 barmeier: say make clean-package-uboot-gta01 Aug 06 20:12:07 barmeier: then try again Aug 06 20:12:31 Hadaka: thx I try ... Aug 06 20:13:15 SpeedEvil, you should post that gps ssh hack to the community list :) Aug 06 20:14:10 hm, eabi in qemu is slightly faster than the opt-fm binary Aug 06 20:14:16 but still... qemu ~_~ Aug 06 20:15:26 openmoko: 03zecke * r2655 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 06 20:15:26 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 06 20:15:26 openmoko: Make the Backward and Forward button sensitive/unsensitive depending on if Aug 06 20:15:26 openmoko: one can go backward/forward. Aug 06 20:15:26 openmoko: The backward/forward signals are not yet connected. Aug 06 20:15:30 openmoko: * configure.ac: Search for genmarshal Aug 06 20:15:32 openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: build the custom marshaler Aug 06 20:15:50 woglinde: salut, ca va? Aug 06 20:16:10 hi zecke Aug 06 20:16:58 Hadaka: failed again with : | Applying patch uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch Aug 06 20:16:58 | patching file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c Aug 06 20:16:58 | Hunk #1 FAILED at 27. Aug 06 20:16:58 | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c Aug 06 20:17:10 barmeier: yes, that's your real problem Aug 06 20:17:19 barmeier: and mine as well, haven't found a solution yet Aug 06 20:17:25 use git rev 8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6 Aug 06 20:17:35 mickeyl: where do I fix that? Aug 06 20:17:39 hi mickeyl Aug 06 20:17:42 uboot-gta01_svn.bb Aug 06 20:17:44 yo woglinde Aug 06 20:17:48 mickeyl: thanks Aug 06 20:17:55 tag= Aug 06 20:18:00 appending to ;protocol=git Aug 06 20:19:20 I am new to this stuff. Could someone please explain what this: "git rev 8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6" means Aug 06 20:19:29 mickeyl: what's the separator? ";" or something else? Aug 06 20:20:26 barmeier: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git ;) Aug 06 20:20:59 hmh, should be ; Aug 06 20:21:48 hehe, I have read about git, but to know how it is used in this context is a different thing, but you are right I will try to find and fix the bitbake file if I understand the comments correctly :) Aug 06 20:23:08 win 38 Aug 06 20:23:51 SpeedEvil: have you some sparetime? Aug 06 20:24:37 * mjr read "have you some spacetime?" Aug 06 20:25:09 mjr: dont'd drink and irc ;o) Aug 06 20:25:24 -d Aug 06 20:26:10 gah, I should learn bitbake better Aug 06 20:26:17 what's wrong with this? Aug 06 20:26:23 git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git/;protocol=git;tag=8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6 \ Aug 06 20:26:35 ERROR: Exception:exceptions.IndexError Message:list index out of range Aug 06 20:28:47 hmm looks ok to me Aug 06 20:29:00 ahha! if I change it to tag=master, it works fine Aug 06 20:29:16 (though not the compile, ofcourse) Aug 06 20:29:42 hmm Aug 06 20:29:44 compare http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/uboot/uboot-openmoko_svn.bb Aug 06 20:30:34 mickeyl: no tag there? Aug 06 20:30:49 tag there Aug 06 20:30:51 look again Aug 06 20:30:58 oops no Aug 06 20:31:01 hah Aug 06 20:31:14 sorry, it's not been sync'ed w/ the browser repository yet Aug 06 20:31:15 sigH Aug 06 20:31:19 stana:~# lwp-request http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/uboot/uboot-openmoko_svn.bb | grep tag Aug 06 20:31:51 http://pastebin.ca/647915 Aug 06 20:32:06 hmmh, linux-omap1_2.6.18+git.bb, looks pretty much the same Aug 06 20:32:26 ah, I think I got it Aug 06 20:32:51 (perhaps) if the tag starts with a number, it needs to be included via variable substitution Aug 06 20:32:54 I'll try Aug 06 20:33:52 nah, didn't help :( Aug 06 20:35:14 Hadaka, can you pastebin your whole bb-file? Aug 06 20:36:26 Kensan: http://pastebin.ca/647924 Aug 06 20:37:08 Kensan: if I remove the ;tag part, the file works Aug 06 20:37:30 Kensan: or if I change it to be ;tag=master Aug 06 20:37:49 perhaps your git is too old? Aug 06 20:37:52 BB_VERSION=1.6.9 it seems (using MokoMakefile) Aug 06 20:38:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Robustness]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Stueble]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Alabama]] [[User:Ashnazg]] Aug 06 20:38:06 ah, or your git fetcher is too old :/ Aug 06 20:38:15 sorry, I completely switched to org.openembedded.dev Aug 06 20:38:20 and we'll switch the MokoMakefile soon Aug 06 20:38:33 mickeyl: well, soon can't be soon enough ;) Aug 06 20:38:50 it's always like that Aug 06 20:38:59 mickeyl: yeah :) Aug 06 20:39:55 Hadaka: Just as a sanity check: did you try without '\' in 'SRC_URI = "\' ? Aug 06 20:40:26 Kensan: nope - I didn't touch that line, and it works if the tag says master, so I don't think it should matter Aug 06 20:40:58 Hadaka: could you try without the additional line? Aug 06 20:41:01 however, I got bored of compiling outdated crap - I just wanted to try and compile one last time so I could go over some kernel hacks for the touchscreen Aug 06 20:41:05 Kensan: will do Aug 06 20:41:29 Kensan: ERROR: Exception:exceptions.IndexError Message:list index out of range Aug 06 20:41:51 Hadaka: use org.openembedded.dev Aug 06 20:42:03 makes a good learning experience anyways Aug 06 20:42:33 mickeyl: yeah, doing that now Aug 06 20:43:21 I think I'm starting to outgrow MokoMakefile anyway, hinders more than it helps Aug 06 20:44:04 it helps with completely new people Aug 06 20:44:25 it really helps lower the bar when getting started with build the platform Aug 06 20:44:57 yeah Aug 06 20:45:05 daMaestro: exactly - MokoMakefile was a real boon Aug 06 20:45:17 it got me going with the emulator. i love it. Aug 06 20:45:54 oh yeah, the damn qemu stuff, I'm going to miss that Aug 06 20:45:54 although i dont think it has to be a beginner's only tool. the makefile from the linux kernel is used by newbs and experts alike. Aug 06 20:46:30 well, I'll try without it for a bit and perhaps come back to it after it's been updated Aug 06 20:53:04 Hadaka, can you pastebin the "full" error log? Aug 06 20:54:06 Kensan: http://pastebin.ca/647948 Aug 06 20:55:45 can BBFILES be a relative path by any means? I *loathe* absolute paths with a passion Aug 06 21:02:11 openmoko: 03zecke * r2656 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 06 21:02:11 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 06 21:02:11 openmoko: Implement going forward and backward in the selection view. We have to Aug 06 21:02:11 openmoko: remember the FeedSelectionView in the ApplicationData to be able to connect the Aug 06 21:02:11 openmoko: next/previous signal of FeedItemView. Aug 06 21:02:15 openmoko: Is g_signal_connect_swapped considered evil? And is it normal that the code is different Aug 06 21:02:17 openmoko: to get the next/previous item in a GtkListStore? Aug 06 21:06:58 argh, I'm starting to hate bitbake Aug 06 21:07:56 i thought you were using org.oe.dev? Aug 06 21:08:16 maybe bitbake 1.6.8 doesn't know about git taggs Aug 06 21:08:27 mickeyl: this is unrelated Aug 06 21:08:45 hi mickeyl . I tested the openmoko psplash on HTC Universal, it really looks good :-) Aug 06 21:08:48 mickeyl: I hate software which expects something to be in the environment for it to run Aug 06 21:09:39 Hadaka: so you hate firefox? Aug 06 21:09:53 goxboxlive: thanks :)) Aug 06 21:10:00 YES! Aug 06 21:10:23 cesarb: $ file /usr/lib/iceweasel/iceweasel Aug 06 21:10:23 /usr/lib/iceweasel/iceweasel: POSIX shell script text executable Aug 06 21:11:07 mickeyl: i also canceled my order of a FIC phone today. I'll rather wait for GTA02 since it got so delayed. Aug 06 21:11:20 *nodÜ Aug 06 21:12:26 mickeyl - And idea what's up with buildhost? Aug 06 21:12:40 How did sales patch up with expectation? Was there a fear that you guys would end up with a bunch of inventory that you couldn't sale? Aug 06 21:13:28 mickeyl: okay, so... org.openembedded.dev has the required stuff for compiling an openmoko image? how do the commits that are done to version control get there? does it pull svn HEAD directly? Aug 06 21:13:36 holy F*ing crap..... Aug 06 21:13:58 hi everybody Aug 06 21:14:00 my router just started smoking and smelling like crap Aug 06 21:14:06 that.. .sucked Aug 06 21:14:41 dang... no more wireless till i can find the spare router..... Aug 06 21:14:46 are there some problems with uboot build currently. I always get an error when aplying the patches Aug 06 21:15:11 hi stephmw Aug 06 21:15:58 Hadaka: yeah Aug 06 21:16:26 (15:13:59) BryceLeo: my router just started smoking and smelling like crap Aug 06 21:16:30 hey woglinde Aug 06 21:16:38 heh i was at a conference when that happened to my wifi Aug 06 21:16:42 ckuethe: what kinda router did you get? Aug 06 21:16:52 it was some stupid little linksucks thing Aug 06 21:16:58 and i was at a security conference Aug 06 21:17:10 honestly, i'm surprised it didn't catch fire in 10 minutes Aug 06 21:17:15 mine was that nice linksys wrt54g version 2 Aug 06 21:17:35 it gave me an excuse to get the a/b/g d-stink though Aug 06 21:17:44 i have a 1.1, hope it survives :) Aug 06 21:17:45 openmoko: 03zecke * r2657 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (ChangeLog src/feed-selection-view.c): Aug 06 21:17:45 openmoko: 2007-08-06 Holger Hans Peter Freyther Aug 06 21:17:45 openmoko: At least give some 'label' to the button without a meaningful icon. Aug 06 21:17:45 openmoko: * src/feed-selection-view.c: Aug 06 21:17:45 openmoko: (feed_selection_view_init): Aug 06 21:17:57 that's true, but cusom firmware is so nice... i will miss it Aug 06 21:18:03 ckuethe - BTW: What are all those sats with PRN > 31? (or do you have a nice ref on those?) Aug 06 21:18:38 anybody experienced some probs today when building uboot ? Aug 06 21:18:38 daltona: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 06 21:18:57 Elrond: depends... Aug 06 21:18:58 alrighty i'm off to hunt down a spare router Aug 06 21:19:19 production PRNS are 0-31 (32, 1-31) Aug 06 21:19:21 aloril: ok I'll check... Aug 06 21:19:33 122, 124, 135, 138, etc are SBAS Aug 06 21:19:36 daltona: it is broken, and fixing it isn't too easy Aug 06 21:19:37 daltona - u-boot was chanted upstream. Hadaka works on a workaround. Aug 06 21:20:13 ok thanks... so I'm not alone. good... thanks guys Aug 06 21:20:14 I'm not working on a workaround anymore - it seems pointless as no openmoko developer is using the old build system Aug 06 21:20:20 stuff between 31 and 122 is basically undefined right now Aug 06 21:20:58 ckuethe - Huh. Hmm. My sirfIII sees 33 and 37 very often. Aug 06 21:21:11 daltona: the git fetcher in old bitbake doesn't seem to be handling revision based tags (or something) - so it's hard fetching an older version of uboot Aug 06 21:21:16 Hadaka, old buildsystem? Aug 06 21:21:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2 Aug 06 21:21:52 Hadaka, ah thanks Aug 06 21:22:15 hadaka: OK, I understand I did not figured out that build system changed. Too excited maybe :) Aug 06 21:22:38 rwhitby: about the logging... don't people realise that the majority of us 24/7 idlers also log? Aug 06 21:22:42 ah, sbas PRN - 87 = nmea sbas prn Aug 06 21:22:42 since NMEA PRNs are only 2 digit Aug 06 21:22:42 124 is a valid PRN Aug 06 21:22:42 i should really put gpsd on my time servers Aug 06 21:22:55 i have a cluster of ublox antaris4T receivers driving my time servers Aug 06 21:22:59 and a little php thing to generate skyview webpages Aug 06 21:23:06 test Aug 06 21:23:14 grr Aug 06 21:23:19 Bryce|HuntingRou: test failed! Aug 06 21:23:21 i've seen PRN 122, 124, 135 and 138 from here Aug 06 21:23:38 lol yeah yeah sure sure Stephmw :P Aug 06 21:23:42 ooooh, tracking 12 SVs right now Aug 06 21:23:54 back down to 9 Aug 06 21:24:05 is there any built images of 2007.2? Aug 06 21:24:09 ckuethe - Are those skyview thingies public? Aug 06 21:27:07 Hadaka - And I'm not really feeling like trying to port the u-boot patches. I can't test them anyway easily. Aug 06 21:29:18 gpsd.mainframe.cx is Aug 06 21:29:18 i'll link my others Aug 06 21:29:20 and if you've got a semi-permanent box, i'd love to get a feed from it Aug 06 21:29:27 gpsd.mainframe.cx has been sitting on the roof of the engineering building for 2 years Aug 06 21:29:29 i'm quite impressed at its durability Aug 06 21:30:58 ckuethe - I don't have a greenhouse yet to put the neo in. ;-) Aug 06 21:55:56 Hi, seems that the actual uboot is broken. anyone out there who can explain me how to enhance "uboot-gta01_svn.bb" to get revision "cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41" Aug 06 21:56:10 ? Aug 06 21:57:55 mickeyl: how soon is "soon" for the MokoMakefile switch? Aug 06 21:58:20 frankly, i don't know. together with publishing the next announcement. Aug 06 21:58:26 hopefully within the next 4 days Aug 06 21:58:42 i don't want to make the switch until the stuff in svn has a certain quality Aug 06 21:58:58 NOTE: generating locale es_NI (UTF-8) Aug 06 21:58:58 qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting Aug 06 21:58:59 -.- Aug 06 21:59:34 what has qemu to do with glibc-2.5 and why it sefaults at locale es_NI? -.- Aug 06 21:59:46 mickeyl: nod Aug 06 22:01:12 qemu generates locales for glibc Aug 06 22:01:16 no idea about the second part of your question Aug 06 22:01:49 it was building for 4 hours now Aug 06 22:02:01 seems I have to start it again (but w/o solving the problem it will segfault again) Aug 06 22:02:11 thomasg look at the glibc.bb and put es_NI locales to broken locales Aug 06 22:03:12 thomasg_: does it always segfault at the same point? Aug 06 22:03:24 cesarb, don't know Aug 06 22:03:30 thomasg_: because if not, it could be a hardware problem on your machine (see the sig11 faq) Aug 06 22:03:32 before it was segfaulting at several other points :) Aug 06 22:03:46 uh Aug 06 22:03:55 but I never came so far ^^ Aug 06 22:04:21 woglinde, can I put all locales but us and my native language to broken? :) Aug 06 22:04:28 thomasg_: Add ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in your local.conf Aug 06 22:04:32 ah, ok Aug 06 22:04:36 thx rwhitby Aug 06 22:04:45 (note that the nslu2-linux makefile would have done that for you ;-) Aug 06 22:04:49 ^^ Aug 06 22:04:50 rwhitby that will prevent the other segfaults Aug 06 22:05:18 rwhitby, any other workarounds I should know about? :) Aug 06 22:05:32 thomasg_: check the makefile ;-) Aug 06 22:05:37 (no, I don't think so) Aug 06 22:05:37 ^^ Aug 06 22:06:14 hmm Aug 06 22:06:26 guess the qvga patch isn't integrated into the default build yet Aug 06 22:07:44 rwhitby, at the next ERROR you will have convinced me :) Aug 06 22:08:06 noon: ping - was asleep - what? Aug 06 22:08:56 guess its time to build a kernel... Aug 06 22:09:27 anrp: see my trivial patch on the hardware list for the usb-direction patch too Aug 06 22:10:22 * anrp slightly dreads getting the build env set up Aug 06 22:11:16 http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/zaurus/mplayer/mplayer-arm920t-try4 is my latest mplayer build, SpeedEvil Aug 06 22:11:22 if you want to try it Aug 06 22:11:30 you'll have to force libmad though (-afm libmad) Aug 06 22:12:12 SpeedEvil: I was analysing some wired code and want to take a look, what the programm outputs Aug 06 22:12:24 SpeedEvil: Elrond gave me the answer Aug 06 22:12:25 SpeedEvil: did you get your Neo? Aug 06 22:12:31 SpeedEvil: so, never mind :-) Aug 06 22:12:34 SpeedEvil: or are you working off off qemu? Aug 06 22:14:55 * Stephmw sighs at the mailing list... $coder thinking bandwidth(gsm)==bandwidth(internet) Aug 06 22:15:47 noon: k Aug 06 22:16:03 Indeed. Aug 06 22:16:08 I've already responded. Aug 06 22:17:37 Can someone else do: hexdump -C /dev/input/event0 Aug 06 22:17:51 plug the headset into the phone. Aug 06 22:17:59 and now click the 'hold' button. Aug 06 22:18:04 For me. Aug 06 22:18:12 herro? Aug 06 22:18:12 alr: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 06 22:18:25 The headset insertion does something, but not the hold button. Aug 06 22:18:26 SpeedEvil: just saw your response - it's good, but I'm afraid of it being ignored as FUD Aug 06 22:18:35 got the phone today !! yay !! flashing rootfs now ! Aug 06 22:18:41 :) Aug 06 22:18:45 SpeedEvil: and I wish I could help your efforts on the hexdumping - but no phone here Aug 06 22:18:46 whatsup everybody Aug 06 22:18:58 alr: nothing really. Aug 06 22:19:32 anrp: will try Aug 06 22:19:47 thanks. Aug 06 22:20:41 Now to bench Aug 06 22:21:07 yay booting with rootfs first time! Aug 06 22:21:10 anrp: this is basically static, with all the codecs you can find? Aug 06 22:21:13 :) Aug 06 22:21:52 well all the lavc ones Aug 06 22:21:58 its a checkout of mplayer as of this morning Aug 06 22:22:20 its approximately the same speed as the old one I had... a couple % slower, but I can't really figure out how that is Aug 06 22:22:41 * SpeedEvil wonders if there are optimisers designed to profile the output, and reorder code for cache optimisation. Aug 06 22:22:51 gcc can... Aug 06 22:23:05 i've never done it but it (might) be worth it Aug 06 22:23:11 Based on statistics? Aug 06 22:23:17 rather than guesses? Aug 06 22:23:19 yeah, gcc can Aug 06 22:23:28 it can generate profile info and dump it, then reuse it Aug 06 22:23:33 well the manual claims it can... Aug 06 22:25:32 SpeedEvil: iirc dec compilers also did that Aug 06 22:25:58 anrp: shows help page OK Aug 06 22:26:02 * anrp optimizes mplayer for one specific video Aug 06 22:26:08 i got my neo going so i've been playing Aug 06 22:26:15 :) Aug 06 22:26:20 i need to build a kernel that allows qvga switching Aug 06 22:26:25 i have the mode and timing info.. Aug 06 22:27:01 Good night mickey|zzZZzz Aug 06 22:27:10 sweet .. crashed X11 by playing with prefs ! Aug 06 22:28:17 X, the fragile beast Aug 06 22:28:43 its seemed to be kinda sluggish for a bit too Aug 06 22:29:07 ah well the 1st of many reboots i'm sure Aug 06 22:29:41 o ye of little faith Aug 06 22:30:28 Hmm, my X seemed quite okay. Aug 06 22:30:32 o we of sour index fingers Aug 06 22:30:38 if anyone is actually running eabi, there's an mplayer in that directory for you as well Aug 06 22:30:54 where's the latest "stable" release image ? Aug 06 22:31:05 stable? Aug 06 22:31:08 what's that? Aug 06 22:31:11 * anrp coughs Aug 06 22:31:36 i got the stuff from: http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ Aug 06 22:31:55 that would be the latest more or less Aug 06 22:32:08 if you want fresher you have to build it Aug 06 22:32:10 i think Aug 06 22:32:40 yeah.. haven't gone through the setup of OE yet .. but soon . Aug 06 22:37:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Pudelfish]] [[P1_Owners]] [[FAQ]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[USB_Networking]] [[Other_OSes]] Aug 06 22:38:17 what to do to get actual uboot compiling? where i've to insert the "cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41"? Aug 06 22:38:43 Why do you want to compile u-boot? Aug 06 22:40:13 because I made a 'make update-makefile && make update setup openmoko-devel-image' and now it's broken :-| Aug 06 22:41:16 risto that wont work with mokomakfile because its using older bitbake which dont have much gitfeatures Aug 06 22:42:30 woglinde: that means I've to wait for new patches? Aug 06 22:45:26 fyi, found the info about revision "cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41" here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:MokoMakefile&curid=2028&diff=16187&oldid=15769 Aug 06 22:49:56 I'm having an odd problem. I turned on my phone and I can't SSH into it Aug 06 22:50:14 its really weird because when I started it said that the SSH ID has changed and displayed the big warning Aug 06 22:50:21 But I could 1 hour ago Aug 06 22:50:36 but after this restart it won't let me in (i even reset the password) Aug 06 22:51:19 calamous: have you loaded a new rootfs? Aug 06 22:51:25 you have to edit the file in .ssh Aug 06 22:51:36 known_hosts Aug 06 22:51:52 yeah. i did but it says the password (which is nothing) is wrong Aug 06 22:51:56 and remove the line with 192.168.0.202 Aug 06 22:52:07 Why would my neo all of a sudden change its rsa ID Aug 06 22:52:15 no I'm using the rootfs from the 27th Aug 06 22:52:47 what distro is your host? Aug 06 22:52:50 ubuntu Aug 06 22:53:00 it worked 1 hour ago and all I did was change sim cards Aug 06 22:53:03 7.04? Aug 06 22:53:06 yeah Aug 06 22:53:46 Why would it change its RSA id and password when I changed sim cards? Aug 06 22:54:06 no reason I can think of Aug 06 22:54:09 and even if I do passwd on the neo and then ssh into it, my comp still says its the wrong password Aug 06 22:54:27 Do you know where newer images to flash are? Aug 06 22:54:31 I can't find any on the buildhost Aug 06 22:54:35 it was down earlier Aug 06 22:55:07 there are few images around, but it looks to me like we are in a state of flux Aug 06 22:55:34 i'm waiting for a stable image matching some source base that I can re-compile here Aug 06 22:56:21 if I remove my sim card I can SSH back into it Aug 06 22:56:26 What gives lol? Aug 06 22:56:43 How the hell can a sim card change the RSA id of ssh? Aug 06 22:57:24 i can think of lot's of ways but I don't think there is any code in the present images to do that Aug 06 22:57:43 Yeah. I would hope not Aug 06 22:58:06 calamous_: sometimes ssh will take many seconds to login Aug 06 22:58:19 it usually takes about 5 seconds Aug 06 22:58:39 Sometimes it takes >60 Aug 06 22:58:45 for no good reason that I'm sure of. Aug 06 22:58:47 SpeedEvil: what do you mean. Aug 06 22:58:54 ssh phone Aug 06 22:59:02 SpeedEvil: are you doing this early after boot? Aug 06 22:59:04 takes >60 seconds to come up with the 'password' prompt Aug 06 22:59:05 no Aug 06 22:59:11 I see the ssh prompt, and I type in my the password (nothing) and it says denied Aug 06 22:59:13 and it's not cpu bound Aug 06 22:59:31 calamous_: You got rooted. Install from fresh media :) Aug 06 22:59:34 But when I take out my sim it works Aug 06 22:59:35 (kidding) Aug 06 22:59:39 lol Aug 06 22:59:42 That's a bit odd. Aug 06 22:59:43 It seems like it Aug 06 22:59:44 SpeedEvil: It's trying to resolve your domain. Aug 06 22:59:57 ozarka: it's not - /etc/hosts Aug 06 23:00:52 Sigh. Aug 06 23:00:59 I thinko'd /etc/hosts/ Aug 06 23:01:05 I keep typing 192.168.1.200 Aug 06 23:01:27 ssh -v tells you where its hanging up Aug 06 23:01:41 I killed dropbear by typing on my phone and when I ssh to 0.202 it still comes up Aug 06 23:01:52 I KNOW i have no other devices as 0.202 Aug 06 23:02:05 and when I unplug the usb cable I can no longer SSH into it Aug 06 23:02:34 calamous_, netstat -plant|grep 22 Aug 06 23:02:38 (on the phone) Aug 06 23:02:44 it will tell you what is listening on 22 Aug 06 23:03:39 will run it in a sec. just restarting phone Aug 06 23:03:50 I went to At&t and got a new sim card btw Aug 06 23:03:56 One that is not on the Carriers/ATT page Aug 06 23:03:57 does it work? Aug 06 23:04:01 not sure yet Aug 06 23:04:05 ah Aug 06 23:04:11 its a 71234G 3022 Aug 06 23:09:38 nope dosent work Aug 06 23:09:47 AT+CIMI returns CME 13 Aug 06 23:09:57 I'm really wondering if my GSM modem is bad Aug 06 23:10:57 calamous_: I thought it was confirmed that AT&T SIMS do not work with the current chipset/firmware Aug 06 23:11:34 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT shows that some work Aug 06 23:15:21 Is there a ssh-keygen on the phone? Aug 06 23:16:41 how do I change my rootfs (that I built with MokoMakefile) to use qvga mode? Aug 06 23:17:07 You don't. Aug 06 23:17:07 AIUI. Aug 06 23:17:11 The kernel patch is not included Aug 06 23:18:02 kernel patch? Aug 06 23:18:03 a like minded soul D: Aug 06 23:18:10 http://people.openmoko.org/stefan/patches/LCM-QVGA Aug 06 23:18:18 SpeedEvil, dropbearkey will generate keys... Aug 06 23:18:57 SpeedEvil, and dropbearconvert will convert between openssh and dropbear keys (of course not compatible directly...) Aug 06 23:19:22 thanks! Aug 06 23:19:43 hilight Aug 06 23:21:06 anrp, is this for the Neo? I'm on another phone with a qvga screen already Aug 06 23:21:59 that's for the neo Aug 06 23:22:04 so... dunno what you're using Aug 06 23:22:18 alright...got my 2g sim from ebay...att activated it fine, now i can call from my neo Aug 06 23:22:41 :) Aug 06 23:23:00 yeah, I already have the stock image booting and working, but I can't do anything because of the resolution Aug 06 23:23:19 geofft: hardware? Aug 06 23:23:25 I mean which. Aug 06 23:23:43 O2 Atom XDA Life. fancy new hardware. Aug 06 23:23:52 GSM not work I assume Aug 06 23:23:55 if it's GSM Aug 06 23:24:26 I have GSM working in regular Debian ARM, I haven't tried it in OE / OM. Aug 06 23:24:35 Noce. Aug 06 23:25:14 (basically I have all the hardware support taken care of, but OM seems to have a decent userspace) Aug 06 23:25:30 * SpeedEvil giggles uncontrollably, then falls off the sofa. Aug 06 23:25:43 Maybe in several months. Aug 06 23:26:22 ok, so there actually is a dialer, which I haven't seen on like GPE Aug 06 23:26:39 True. Aug 06 23:26:49 What works is quite nice. Aug 06 23:27:12 SpeedEvil: you have a dialer that actually dials? Aug 06 23:27:23 yes. Aug 06 23:27:29 Wehn Aug 06 23:27:37 When I haven't killed gsmd, to do GPRS Aug 06 23:27:48 I have free GPRS for 10 - now 8 maybe - days Aug 06 23:28:08 i've never gotton the dialer to send anything to gsmd Aug 06 23:28:20 Another week. Aug 06 23:28:55 it looked to me like everything is being overhauled anyway and i'm content to play at the command line Aug 06 23:29:05 pretty much. Aug 06 23:29:23 there is an entire missing layer that's being ignored Aug 06 23:29:50 I was assuming the dialer used gsmd - I haven't checked Aug 06 23:30:21 i think it uses libgsm which sockets over to gsmd Aug 06 23:31:03 alsactl...no soundcards found? Aug 06 23:31:15 this is with the 2007.2 aug 2 image Aug 06 23:31:15 jaebird: odd Aug 06 23:31:27 the state files are in /etc from firmware Aug 06 23:31:28 lsmod Aug 06 23:31:49 You should have 4 snd_* modules Aug 06 23:31:50 two snd_soc listed Aug 06 23:32:02 bye Aug 06 23:32:03 snd_soc_s3c24xx_i2s snd_soc_wm8753 Aug 06 23:32:38 You're missing snd_soc_s3c24xx_i2s snd_soc_neo1973_wm8753 Aug 06 23:32:41 compared to my phone Aug 06 23:32:49 are you running 2007.2? Aug 06 23:32:59 i may have missed those modules Aug 06 23:33:10 no Aug 06 23:33:17 ah...ok Aug 06 23:33:34 i'll go back to the known state...the games were fun :) Aug 06 23:34:45 Check for shorts Aug 06 23:34:47 oops Aug 06 23:34:52 pshh jaebird if you want real fun freeciv builds in OE Aug 06 23:35:52 BryceLeo|Shwr: that's why I want a neo Aug 06 23:36:46 Vegar: lol freeciv on the go! Aug 06 23:36:58 i dunno if it'll be doable on the gta01 without the graphics accel Aug 06 23:37:04 DOes anyone happen to know which gtk event is produced when a stylus depresses the touch screen on the neo? Aug 06 23:37:15 though if anyone with an n800 can test.... if it runs there it should run on the neo Aug 06 23:37:19 or n700... Aug 06 23:37:44 rtm_: probably a mouse click Aug 06 23:38:57 BryceLeo|Shwr: http://flickr.com/photos/ph5/417853278/ Aug 06 23:39:38 wow wow that's awesome Aug 06 23:39:44 i didn't know it actually played, Aug 06 23:39:53 i'm currently builidng all of OE and i saw it on the to do Aug 06 23:40:18 not sure if it's playable though Aug 06 23:40:22 but at least it runs Aug 06 23:40:32 yeah, very true Aug 06 23:40:36 rtm_, don't recall the gtk terms off-hand, but touchscreen pushes and releases are handled exactly like mouse button pushes and releases Aug 06 23:40:39 alrighty... off to get that shower done Aug 06 23:40:41 very cool! Aug 06 23:46:41 mjr & Vegar - Thanks, that's what I figured, but my app isn't seeing them. I must be connecting the handler incorrectly. Aug 06 23:51:11 I would like to confirm some things: am I right to assume that the Neo charges the battery as soon as it's connected to a USB host? Also, am I correctly assuming that the Neo doesn't run on USB host power alone? Aug 06 23:51:28 No, yes Aug 06 23:51:34 the first is horribly more complex Aug 06 23:51:38 basically. Aug 06 23:52:23 If the device is awake, then any time it gets configured as a USB peripheral with 500mA of current available, it will charge at high rate - if the battery is not charged. Aug 06 23:52:37 If the device is not awake, then it depends on configuration. Aug 06 23:52:51 So I can run the Neo from a power supply *and* hook it up to my laptop without having the Neo try charging the non-existant battery, yes? Aug 06 23:53:01 if the neo thinks the battery is full Aug 06 23:53:12 well, "battery" Aug 06 23:53:13 You can't run it without the battery. Aug 06 23:53:31 The neo. Aug 06 23:53:32 almost... i pulled it out, and the neo made a horrible sound for 10 seconds while hooked to usb Aug 06 23:53:36 but it didn't work Aug 06 23:53:36 Not even if I supply it with the 3.7V on the battery pins? Aug 06 23:53:43 Oh - that'd work. Aug 06 23:53:49 2.9-4.2 or so. Aug 06 23:54:01 Alternatively. Aug 06 23:54:08 Take a USB lead, cut the red wire. Aug 06 23:54:08 My concern is that the Neo would try charging it, though Aug 06 23:54:14 Not the green wire, or it will explode. Aug 06 23:54:18 just disable charging Aug 06 23:54:19 heh :) Aug 06 23:54:28 Then connect a source of 5V to the neo side. Aug 06 23:54:41 And don't connect the laptop side - insulate it. Aug 06 23:54:46 SpeedEvil: wouldn't he have to cut the black wire too? Aug 06 23:54:55 a source of 5V - between the red wire, and the black wire. Aug 06 23:55:04 No, you splice into the black wire, you do not cut it. Aug 06 23:55:30 so the black wire would go both to the laptop and to the 5V source? Aug 06 23:55:30 SpeedEvil: Well I'd want to access the Neo over USB at the same time Aug 06 23:55:41 Vegar: yes. Aug 06 23:55:46 ok Aug 06 23:55:47 abraxa_: you can do that Aug 06 23:56:10 SpeedEvil: You said to not connect the laptop side, though Aug 06 23:56:22 You don't connect the red wire going to the laptop Aug 06 23:56:30 What problem are you trying solve by all this Aug 06 23:56:32 Oh, I thought you meant the entire plug Aug 06 23:56:51 running neo off another power source while talking to it over laptop Aug 06 23:57:09 Writchie: Neo+Battery but no charger - figured it would be easier to just run from a power supply Aug 06 23:57:42 Oh - you just want to charge it? Aug 06 23:57:45 Nope Aug 06 23:57:48 Is the goal to not have the neo drink up the laptop's power? Wouldn't it be easier to communicate via BT? Aug 06 23:57:59 unless your laptop does not supply 500ma, there is only a problem at initial charge Aug 06 23:58:06 Indeed. Aug 06 23:58:09 The goal is to run the Neo without the battery to begin with Aug 06 23:58:15 Why? Aug 06 23:58:16 and why Aug 06 23:58:31 Because I don't want downtimes when it's empty Aug 06 23:58:53 If you power it over 5V - you never get worse downtimes than you would powering it through the battery port Aug 06 23:59:15 And you only lose some 10% of power in the charger circuitry inside the phone. Aug 06 23:59:15 Hmm... Aug 06 23:59:36 And less chance of screwing it up. I _think_ the input on the neo can cope with up to 10V. Aug 06 23:59:37 just don't let neo get dead Aug 06 23:59:47 buy a $15 motorola usb charger Aug 06 23:59:47 (note, if you try this, I reserve the right to point and laugh) Aug 07 00:03:22 SpeedEvil: Assuming I just run the Neo with battery inserted and plugged in to my laptop, would the battery be drained? I figure it won't if I switch it into fast-charge mode but I'm curious about not having done so Aug 07 00:05:53 SpeedEvil, so hows about we hook up the +5 from one USB port to the ground of another, and then supercharge the Neo from the remaining free +5 and ground pins, which logically will provide 10V! Aug 07 00:07:06 And then with 12 more wires, connecting the resulting + and - terminals, we could boost that up to 120 volts, and use a wall plug to generate any voltage we want! Aug 07 00:08:26 reflashed with known good set of kernel and rootfs...made call with headset! first call since i got it Aug 07 00:08:36 jaebird, :) Aug 07 00:08:52 i wasn't even tethered to a pc :) Aug 07 00:09:28 abraxa_: no - it runs from USB in that case. Aug 07 00:09:31 now i need to sms a bit Aug 07 00:09:55 SpeedEvil: Ahh, thanks - that's where my thinking was flawed then. Thanks for clearing it up =) Aug 07 00:10:02 saw this question on the ml...is there a way to figure out which frequency the gsm is using or force it? Aug 07 00:10:10 jaebird: no. Aug 07 00:10:17 or at least no on the second Aug 07 00:10:23 it's picked by your operator Aug 07 00:10:51 Yeah I saw that too. The Neo should support 850 MHz though; maybe he's not properly in coverage... Aug 07 00:10:57 well in our area there is 2 freq being used, but one is more prevalent...it seems to be choosing the other :( Aug 07 00:11:05 (or he's failed to enable the SIM with AT&T somehow) Aug 07 00:11:48 with my E2 is saw spotty 1900 coverage till the 850 hack...seems similar to the signal strength i'm getting on the neo Aug 07 00:12:13 strength of 7 -12 Aug 07 00:13:36 what is the max signal range? Aug 07 00:16:55 yeah, i'm pretty sure it is using the wrong freq, my other phones have full bars, the neo is between no bars and one Aug 07 00:17:48 maybe if i finally go out of range of the 1900, the 850 will kick in and then stick as the default... Aug 07 00:18:16 jaebird: what network on you on? Aug 07 00:18:26 AT&T ex Cingular Aug 07 00:18:30 I read somewhere GSM phones save something about the frequency they used in the SIM Aug 07 00:18:43 So they will not waste time searching all channels Aug 07 00:18:53 1900 will normally be used if available Aug 07 00:19:00 850 if 1900 not in range Aug 07 00:19:12 writche quick question, what motorola usb charger should i get for the battery? Aug 07 00:19:34 1900 cells are smaller, all other factors being the same Aug 07 00:19:54 the upper freq allocations tend to have more space available, a good reason to prefer if in range Aug 07 00:19:59 Writchie: the 1900 is barely in range...so more battery consumption, my other phones already are on 850 in the same place Aug 07 00:20:26 provider generally doesn't care about your battery Aug 07 00:20:42 though obviously not to the point that you can't _actually_ do anything with the signal, if that was the case... Aug 07 00:20:43 850 is the incumbent freq in our neck of the woods Aug 07 00:21:14 that is why the majority triband phones are generally no use to us Aug 07 00:21:41 *nod* Aug 07 00:22:03 the third band of a tri-band phone is 1900 Aug 07 00:22:09 Well, the Neo _should_ do that too. Hard to tell from here, where 900 and/or 1800 works fine... Aug 07 00:22:22 maybe the antenna in the neo is just "that" good so it still sees 1900 when my other phones do not Aug 07 00:22:29 neo is supposed to be quad band Aug 07 00:22:36 there are hardly of no-use, since t-mobile is all 1900 (i think) Aug 07 00:22:58 rwhitby, *nod*, 850/900/1800/1900 Aug 07 00:23:04 that's the spec on the RF chip, anyway Aug 07 00:23:12 Writchie: I"m talking about my neck of the woods...T-Mobile is non existent Aug 07 00:23:28 then 850 is your only choice. Aug 07 00:23:33 which requires quadband Aug 07 00:24:05 hopefully Neo's antenna isn't somehow deficient on 850... :] Aug 07 00:24:37 On USB charging. Aug 07 00:24:39 Writchie: ok...maybe i'm not clear, 1900 is on the edge out here and will drop very frequently if the phone doesn't support 850. Apparently the neo is sticking with 1900 for now...that is why i was wondering if there was a way to tell it to use 850 first. :) Aug 07 00:24:48 autofast mode does not persist in shutdown. Aug 07 00:25:14 You need to plug into dumb charger, and pick 'autofast' mode in u-boot. Aug 07 00:25:34 See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader for how to add it to the main menu Aug 07 00:26:01 the phone either supports 850 or its doesn't. Aug 07 00:26:14 if it does, it will switch from 1900 to 850 when necessary Aug 07 00:26:34 this is all automatic in the phone Aug 07 00:27:12 you can select operators but not which frequencies of the same operator are used. Aug 07 00:27:18 I think it's actually negotiated with the tower Aug 07 00:27:22 SpeedEvil, mmh; the setting will remain in force when linux has booted and does stuff with the usb? Aug 07 00:27:28 It may be driven by the tower. Aug 07 00:27:50 Yeah, I wondered if it's tower-driven too. Wouldn't seem far-fetched, but dunno. Aug 07 00:27:50 mjr: If you plug it into a non-dumb charger, then yes. Aug 07 00:28:08 I haven't managed to get it to charge at high rate in linux from a dumb charger Aug 07 00:28:25 IIRC its driven by the MSC Aug 07 00:28:37 Writchie: lets hope the modem supports 850 out of the box, and this isn't another problem (ie AT&T sim cards) Aug 07 00:28:45 SpeedEvil, ack. That's what I wanted to know. It'd be nice to have that capability. Though since u-boot can do it, Somebody(TM) will probably hack it... Aug 07 00:29:19 IIRC i'm seeing both 1900 and 850 operators Aug 07 00:29:20 if the signal doesn't go up as i drive around, or i get a no service error...we'll know. Aug 07 00:29:37 jaebird, best of luck; it really should work. Aug 07 00:29:43 that is what i got with my E2 before the hack Aug 07 00:29:54 * cesarb wonders why all the Neo GSM problems seems to happen in a single country Aug 07 00:29:59 s/wonders/ponders/ Aug 07 00:30:00 mjr: :) Aug 07 00:30:02 GSM works - AT&T is another matter Aug 07 00:30:25 I _think_ my phone is using 850/900 Aug 07 00:30:31 my walls are 50cm stone. Aug 07 00:30:50 I can talk over GPRS at 5k/s with the phone in any random orientation. Aug 07 00:30:54 Pretty much. Aug 07 00:30:56 if your in Scotland I think you will be 900/1800 Aug 07 00:31:08 probably using only 900 Aug 07 00:31:13 1800 does _not_ work through the walls Aug 07 00:31:49 this is why 900 is good Aug 07 00:31:55 it think it just switched...got a lot more bars...then switched back :) Aug 07 00:32:06 i must be on the 1900 bubble here Aug 07 00:32:18 i wouldn't place all that much emphasis on bars. Aug 07 00:32:51 Writchie: what is the signal range? Aug 07 00:33:19 depends on frequency and power Aug 07 00:33:38 the output from gsmd? Aug 07 00:34:03 you mean the signal strength indication from gsmd? Aug 07 00:34:13 yes...what is the range Aug 07 00:34:22 0-255? Aug 07 00:35:23 0 - 31 Aug 07 00:35:41 ok thanks Aug 07 00:36:05 interesting, ive seen it tell me 99 before Aug 07 00:36:12 the values correspond to RSS received signal strengh Aug 07 00:36:13 but normally around 20 Aug 07 00:36:20 99 means not known or not detectable Aug 07 00:36:27 ah, i see Aug 07 00:36:34 0 means -113 dBm or less. Aug 07 00:36:36 i have noticed while trying to compile openmoko-devel-image, its seems to want to download vorbis tools and a bunch others.. Aug 07 00:36:44 is there a way to fetch everything first. Aug 07 00:36:45 31 is -51 dBm or greater Aug 07 00:37:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Wishlist:Accessories]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[User:Tommy]] Aug 07 00:38:11 ok...wow i get -48 dbm on my wireless inet provider (canopy system) Aug 07 00:38:27 and that is with a reflector dish :) Aug 07 00:39:05 Writchie: what you wrote might be good wiki info Aug 07 00:39:58 it's all in the GSM specs Aug 07 00:40:32 i'm not sure it adds much value to summarize Aug 07 00:40:46 i dunno Aug 07 00:41:05 is it expected that all devs be read up on gsm specs? Aug 07 00:41:17 if so...then no, otherwise a nice summary would be nice Aug 07 00:41:19 no Aug 07 00:41:44 just little things...when i was diagnosing my sim errors, i had to find the error code defs Aug 07 00:41:51 but those working on exported any of this to the application level would Aug 07 00:42:59 did you have a copy of gsm 7.07 Aug 07 00:43:10 no, i googled it Aug 07 00:43:29 but if i want to get more into the gsm stuff, i will Aug 07 00:44:11 i wasn't thinking of hacking in that space...but i may change my mind :) Aug 07 00:44:34 it's useful to better understand how things work Aug 07 00:44:57 of course...but the stack is only so deep :) Aug 07 00:45:02 believe it not, GSM works beautifully everywhere in the US Aug 07 00:45:13 s/in/but Aug 07 00:45:19 everywhere but the US Aug 07 00:45:53 well, its only been ~5 yrs? iirc Aug 07 00:46:02 at least for cingular Aug 07 00:46:33 and since they've been buying and merging all these other networks, it can only get more complicated Aug 07 00:46:58 so... how do i force u-boot to the earlier git rev? Aug 07 00:47:03 maybe by the time 3G is nationwide it will be sorted...here is to hoping Aug 07 00:47:10 it's more a matter of no competition in GSM Aug 07 00:47:55 US operators compete phones+network against phones+network instead of network vs. network Aug 07 00:48:14 yeah...but data speeds are starting to mater Aug 07 00:48:21 s/mater/matter/ Aug 07 00:48:21 jaebird meant: yeah...but data speeds are starting to matter Aug 07 00:49:02 if at&t can't pull this off, americans don't care about gsm, they'll go to verizon or something Aug 07 00:49:49 where do americans roam...generally, it is in the usa from state to state...gsm interoperability between providers isn't the same as in eu Aug 07 00:50:08 my 2c Aug 07 00:50:14 competition between t-mobile and AT&T will, IMHO, improve both networks Aug 07 00:50:31 i agree Aug 07 00:50:57 whenever sprint dies, t-mobile can buy their assets Aug 07 00:51:04 yeah, the US cell network market, interop, competition, *sigh* Aug 07 00:55:29 anyone having issues building right now? Aug 07 00:55:48 | Applying patch patches/uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch Aug 07 00:55:48 | patching file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c Aug 07 00:55:48 | Hunk #1 FAILED at 27. Aug 07 00:55:48 | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file fs/cramfs/cramfs.c [...] Aug 07 00:56:15 sprint is cdma.. why would tmobile want their assest Aug 07 00:56:25 SpeedEvil: are you getting a pretty consistent 5Kbps over GPRS Aug 07 00:56:42 yes Aug 07 00:56:43 daMaestro: have the sort of the same error Aug 07 00:56:56 someone pointed uboot-gta01 at the head of u-boot dev Aug 07 00:57:02 = not good idea Aug 07 00:58:00 is there any way i can *not* build uboot? Aug 07 00:58:07 i really only want the latest kernel and rootfs image Aug 07 01:03:03 daMaestro: isnt uboot a small amount of sourcecode? Aug 07 01:03:26 Writchie: yes. Aug 07 01:03:37 Writchie: ping time averaging 700ms. Aug 07 01:03:55 I've as a test downloaded 10M files over it - without real problems. Aug 07 01:04:01 T-mobile-uk Aug 07 01:04:13 sounds pretty good Aug 07 01:04:30 Though the cheapest way I've found of getting data calls is silly. Aug 07 01:04:42 agree Aug 07 01:04:51 you're luck you have gprs on a prepay Aug 07 01:04:58 or temp gprs Aug 07 01:05:07 Buy cheap PAYG phone with 10 days free internet access, and other PAYG SIM. Place other SIM in with phone, ebay. Aug 07 01:05:13 Repeat. Aug 07 01:05:27 However, it's not _too_ bad. Aug 07 01:05:45 as on PAYG - with t-mobile - it's capped at a pound a day normally with GPRS Aug 07 01:05:59 are you in a proxy jail Aug 07 01:06:06 No. Aug 07 01:06:13 I can connect out on random ports. Aug 07 01:06:16 ssh, ... Aug 07 01:06:36 Can't connect in of course - but I wouldn't want that without stuff that's not available. Aug 07 01:07:09 cryptographically signed inbound packets for example, with non signed ones getting bounced at the mobile operators border router. Aug 07 01:07:11 you still be able to get in Aug 07 01:07:34 get in? Aug 07 01:07:45 should be similar to a NAT traversal Aug 07 01:08:09 I mean so that random hosts on the internet can't try to send me viruses, at 0.73p/kilobyte Aug 07 01:08:22 yes Aug 07 01:08:40 this is already a problem just with sms Aug 07 01:08:53 It _would_ be nice if it was possible to push signed udp packets to my phone. Aug 07 01:09:04 Say 200 bytes - that works out at 0.2p each Aug 07 01:09:10 i think you can so that yourself Aug 07 01:09:19 this is what I am talking with the NAT traversal Aug 07 01:09:21 Or 700/day Aug 07 01:09:35 you need your server in the middle to do this Aug 07 01:09:39 I know. Aug 07 01:09:55 actually, i am looking into doing this kind of service on a general basis Aug 07 01:10:05 Writchie: is there anything to the ml post about the FCC hasn't approved 850 yet? Aug 07 01:10:26 jaebird: don't know - Aug 07 01:10:37 have to look at the submission for the phone. Aug 07 01:10:52 likely an oversite by FIC Aug 07 01:10:52 the link i went to had 2400 and 1900 only Aug 07 01:11:15 What I'd _like_ is for me to be able to give out a set of public keys. A packet signed with any of these keys can get through the firewall, and I can revoke keys on demand. Aug 07 01:11:35 But, that's not really possible. So VPN is pretty much it. Aug 07 01:12:02 i think something like that is possible Aug 07 01:12:12 In theory it's possible. Aug 07 01:12:22 even practical. Aug 07 01:12:29 In practice - I don't know if there is even a RFC that'd cover this. Aug 07 01:12:49 And it's certainly not deployed at $RANDOM_PHONE_COMPANY Aug 07 01:13:02 i add one package, and bitbake decides to rebuild everything Aug 07 01:13:02 ?? Aug 07 01:13:19 if NAT traversal ip discovery part works, the rest is pretty easy Aug 07 01:13:29 it better not rebuild gcc... Aug 07 01:13:46 anrp: it's a feature. Aug 07 01:13:55 there is I think a need for narroband udp user to user relay service Aug 07 01:14:06 a feature, eh Aug 07 01:14:33 Hmm. Aug 07 01:14:46 I need to find out how many bytes/day an idle SSH session uses. Aug 07 01:14:53 you might even be able to do it peer to peer with server in the middle only for session setup Aug 07 01:15:01 As 136kbytes/day is when it becomes 'free'. Aug 07 01:15:10 openvpn! Aug 07 01:15:31 Yeah. Perhaps the confusing part is that people expect the toolchain to remain distinct from the other software; OE is set up so that there is no such distinction. With surprising results sometimes. Aug 07 01:15:31 OpenVPN can do TCP or UDP Aug 07 01:15:58 What are we wondering about being possible when you could use OpenVPN? Aug 07 01:16:10 er... what? Aug 07 01:16:15 the use cases are driven by cost Aug 07 01:16:41 i think we want to send very low rate packets through gprs on demand Aug 07 01:16:53 regardless of the rationale behind it, deciding to rebuild everything is often the wrong choice Aug 07 01:16:56 without the risk of a flooding with tons of traffic Aug 07 01:17:04 anrp: I agree. Aug 07 01:17:21 what do you define toolchain as? Aug 07 01:17:35 On 'power off' on the menu. Aug 07 01:17:52 that would be ideal Aug 07 01:17:53 It does not turn off the mobile phone modem. Aug 07 01:18:04 The obvious -- compiler, linker, etc. OE also adds half of the Linux utilities and tools to the mix -- anything with a -native recipie. Aug 07 01:18:07 ideally, the gprs attach would be maintained Aug 07 01:18:09 And uses some 30mA. Aug 07 01:18:19 ... Aug 07 01:18:23 yep, there it goes Aug 07 01:18:25 just give me a single UDP packet every 15 minutes, Aug 07 01:18:25 fucking pos Aug 07 01:18:58 i created one directory in packages, then did bitbake file Aug 07 01:19:04 Is GPRS just a type of proxy or is it like Frame Relay or what? Aug 07 01:19:05 kind of like WAP over SMS Aug 07 01:19:07 which dutifully rebuilds everything. Aug 07 01:19:09 why??! Aug 07 01:19:17 It's sort-of-ISDN Aug 07 01:19:29 where the calls and the data share one 'circuit'. Aug 07 01:19:29 just a generalized packet transport Aug 07 01:19:31 Like a dial-on-demand type thing Aug 07 01:19:37 For example, the simple task of a bitbake recipe to compile the new timezone databases for this year's change -- simple. Except that the OE core team insisted that the recipe compile the tzedit utility -- on the grounds that the host system may not have it installed. Aug 07 01:19:47 the connection stays up as long as you want Aug 07 01:19:55 you transfer packets when you want Aug 07 01:20:04 honestly, i can't believe this is right Aug 07 01:20:11 it's designed for over the air frugality Aug 07 01:20:15 i must have done something wrong but i have no idea what Aug 07 01:20:23 it wasn't designed for youTube video Aug 07 01:20:41 not to mention the fact that head is broken right now Aug 07 01:20:48 the fundamental GPS channels are on the order of 10k bps point to point channels Aug 07 01:21:05 * SpeedEvil passes Writchie an R. Aug 07 01:21:06 GPRS uses multiple channels to implement a packet service that is point multipoint Aug 07 01:21:15 There's a fix of sorts -- if you can pull the tools out of the OE tree, you can set "ASSUME_PROVIDED" variables so that OE will not attempt to build those parts. Obvious candidates woudl be the cross compiler... Aug 07 01:21:16 wha..? Aug 07 01:21:38 why do I need to trick bitbake though? it's not like the packages in question have changed Aug 07 01:21:54 * anrp philosophy: tricking the system into doing what you want is always a design error Aug 07 01:21:55 GPRS is designed to easily fill in the idle channels with packet data Aug 07 01:22:13 the unused bandwidth is then shared. Aug 07 01:22:14 But this is transparent to the OS right? Aug 07 01:22:20 A dependency somewhere changed. You can dump out the dependency graph, but when I last looked at it, it was a black mass of links that filled my monitor. :o Aug 07 01:22:21 (script) planet: Jouston Huang: Apology post http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000230.html Aug 07 01:22:23 yes. Aug 07 01:22:26 dTx. Aug 07 01:22:29 the operator determine how many channels min to devote to GPRS all the time Aug 07 01:22:45 from the phone's perspective, GPRS looks like a PPP connection to the operator's gprs-ip gateway Aug 07 01:22:45 OS just sees normal IP Aug 07 01:22:46 Well - it's not really transparent - it's like any other interneet device. Aug 07 01:22:50 anrp: your philosophy statement summarizes it very well. Aug 07 01:23:00 It's not quite ppp - with the multiplexing Aug 07 01:23:03 which isn't in yet Aug 07 01:23:08 in gprs? Aug 07 01:23:13 you mean TS07.07? Aug 07 01:23:30 In principle, the multiplexing should allow us to do voice/data at the same time. Aug 07 01:23:41 Not True Aug 07 01:23:51 Voice and Data at same time requires DTM Aug 07 01:23:54 not unless you spend megabucks on a dual-radio gsm module Aug 07 01:24:09 don't need two radios, just DTM Aug 07 01:24:18 now you could do voice-over-gprs or data-over-csd but that's pretty much always a bad idea Aug 07 01:24:20 not supported in present chip Aug 07 01:24:46 at present, a voice or circuit switched data call will suspend the GPRS session until the call is complete Aug 07 01:24:51 you can mantain two open channels to the gsm chipset, one for voice one for data, but the data one stalls while voice is active Aug 07 01:25:00 Writchie: I've read statements by Harald differently. Aug 07 01:25:05 the session will then resulme Aug 07 01:25:12 What statements from Harald Aug 07 01:25:18 about DTM? Aug 07 01:25:37 i think you misunderstood... the multiplexing allows for 16 virtual serial connections to the gsm chipset Aug 07 01:25:46 one can be dedicated for voice, one for data, etc Aug 07 01:25:51 couple for command Aug 07 01:26:06 but depending on the chipset you can't use voice and data Aug 07 01:26:15 with one radio, the radio must be tuned to the channel the voice (or CSD) is on. Aug 07 01:26:25 the GPRS must be routed to the same channel Aug 07 01:26:41 this requires capability in both the handset and network Aug 07 01:26:49 is it possible to do multiple calls at once? Aug 07 01:26:58 no Aug 07 01:27:03 lol Aug 07 01:27:15 If you have two phones. Aug 07 01:27:18 like conferencing? Aug 07 01:27:24 i would like my gsm modem to call my boss and tell him i'm sick! Aug 07 01:27:30 my old siemens C55 has a conference option Aug 07 01:27:36 you can conference calls but the bridging is done outside of the radio Aug 07 01:27:38 while, I'm surfing the gprs :) Aug 07 01:27:57 conference and alternated calls are held outside the radio network Aug 07 01:28:02 ok Aug 07 01:28:14 there is only one circuit switched path at a time Aug 07 01:28:33 it can carry a bridged connection of two or more calls (usually two max) Aug 07 01:29:09 when gprs is attached, you are using a particular channel Aug 07 01:29:27 when you get an incoming call, it may need to be routed on another channel Aug 07 01:29:30 of course if you dare to actually use it your provider will probably charge you 2*n*rate for the calls, since providers generally are ... money grubbing Aug 07 01:30:02 money grubbing, with a smile :) Aug 07 01:30:12 unfortunately, many companies don't know what there true business is. Aug 07 01:30:16 especially telco's Aug 07 01:30:34 the copper pair business is different than the (teleservices" business Aug 07 01:30:35 like the openmoko ad on youtube...the phone company Aug 07 01:30:38 Their true business is the maximization of profit Aug 07 01:30:47 nothing wrong with that Aug 07 01:30:58 eh Aug 07 01:30:59 and whine and complain when they have to get off their duff Aug 07 01:31:01 To a degree Aug 07 01:31:10 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html Aug 07 01:31:10 Past a degree there is often much wrong with it Aug 07 01:31:23 Moss-Pultz notes, "That's the big thing missing from Linux. There is no GSM multiplexing available right now. You want multiplexing so apps can simultaneously access call features -- so when you're browsing the Internet, you can still get a call." Aug 07 01:31:41 get, not continue using Aug 07 01:31:47 I'm not saying this is right - just where I got it from. Aug 07 01:31:52 you still get GSM notifications etc Aug 07 01:31:58 but you can't keep data active once you go on call Aug 07 01:32:03 Ah - right. Aug 07 01:32:17 most definitely, the chipset supports 7.10 Aug 07 01:32:19 Confusingly phrased to those that don't know the underlying protocol limitations. Aug 07 01:32:24 indeed Aug 07 01:32:35 A pity :( Aug 07 01:32:40 yes Aug 07 01:33:00 a phone plus continuous GPRS is an exteremely valuable use case Aug 07 01:33:00 is 3G the same situation? Aug 07 01:33:02 also, i don't think that multiplexing belongs in the kernel at all Aug 07 01:33:05 but that's just me Aug 07 01:33:15 i've been waiting 6 years for that and I'm still waiting Aug 07 01:33:28 that,s easy, BT connect another phone to your neo D: Aug 07 01:33:35 3G is different because of wideband CDMA Aug 07 01:33:47 i know nextel operates a handset on two networks...wonder if they offer the simul data/voice Aug 07 01:33:48 not a problem with UMTS Aug 07 01:34:15 Writchie: So it's basically a radio/tower limit. It would require both timeslots for voice/data to be on the same channel? Aug 07 01:34:29 its really just software Aug 07 01:34:39 man, screw deps Aug 07 01:34:42 * anrp bitbake -b Aug 07 01:35:01 I'm assuming the radio in the phone is not agile enough to swap freqs between timeslots. Aug 07 01:35:30 the radio is easy enough to switch, but not while data is in progress Aug 07 01:35:32 Actually, it would require two radios, without cooperation of the tower, as they might be at the same time. Aug 07 01:35:45 you can do it with two radios Aug 07 01:36:01 but that is almost never practical Aug 07 01:36:30 I dunno. Aug 07 01:36:41 I have just bought a PAYG phone. Aug 07 01:36:49 With a dual-band GSM radio. Aug 07 01:36:55 It was cheep. Aug 07 01:37:08 dual-band or quad band is not the same as two complete radios Aug 07 01:37:18 I'd be quite happy to have that as an additional radio. Aug 07 01:37:26 No, it's not. Aug 07 01:37:28 I know. Aug 07 01:37:37 you could duct tape them together :) Aug 07 01:37:55 in some cases we may be forced to use two radios with BT to one of them Aug 07 01:37:59 I was simply meaning that I wouldn't want a full 4 band radio. Aug 07 01:38:03 :/ Aug 07 01:38:18 the 4 bands are only useful when traveling. Aug 07 01:38:37 i don't know of any case where more than two bands are in use in any given country Aug 07 01:38:38 Indeed - as long as I could pick the bands. Aug 07 01:39:09 may change is we end up with a gsm 750 buts thats years away Aug 07 01:39:21 these is one country with gsm400 Aug 07 01:40:45 s/these/thee Aug 07 01:40:57 s/thee/there Aug 07 01:41:47 sure you don't meen thouse? Aug 07 01:41:49 >_> Aug 07 01:42:13 Hmm. Aug 07 01:42:25 them there Aug 07 01:42:27 150 bytes ish overhead to send one " " over ssh. Aug 07 01:42:40 or 300 bytes both way - 0.2p. Aug 07 01:42:46 that's a lot Aug 07 01:42:56 Of course - that's worst-case. Aug 07 01:43:10 100 bytes will be the same price Aug 07 01:43:32 i think the MTU is something like 200+ Aug 07 01:43:46 woo! Aug 07 01:43:51 i got me self a kernel Aug 07 01:44:46 Indeed - a 80 char paste uses the same bytes as 1 byte - more or less Aug 07 01:45:04 :) Aug 07 01:45:16 no thanks to bitbake though, sheesh Aug 07 01:45:27 I remember the MTU being around 200 from memory too. Aug 07 01:55:42 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r112 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Explicitly address the Neo with dfu-util (stops accidentally finding multiple dfu-capable devices) Aug 07 01:56:12 Does anyone know how I can add my application to the "Other Applications" submenu of the main openmoko menu? Aug 07 02:01:37 i think there is no panel-menu in OM-2007.2 Aug 07 02:07:27 agh Aug 07 02:07:29 nooo Aug 07 02:08:07 * anrp pokes stefan Aug 07 02:09:28 * jaebird is sad that microSD isn't hot swappable in the neo Aug 07 02:15:48 * sagacis agrees Aug 07 02:16:01 jaebird: Is that a hardware or a software limitation? Aug 07 02:18:08 hardware Aug 07 02:18:11 afaik, microSD isn't usually hotswappable Aug 07 02:18:18 it's behind the sim and the battery Aug 07 02:18:33 taking out the battery = die Aug 07 02:18:39 but it can often be unmounted and removed without turning off the machine Aug 07 02:19:02 pjz, that's hotswap Aug 07 02:19:08 there are some phones where you can change the sdcard without putting out the battery Aug 07 02:19:24 what are the electrical length limits on the connectors? Aug 07 02:19:48 mjr: oh? I guess I think of hotswap in the power-supply sense: just pull one out, plug in another, the hardware autoadjusts Aug 07 02:20:02 what about a microSD with ribbon cable to a std SD adapter and poke it through the back of the case Aug 07 02:20:42 if you can change a part with power on, it's hotswap Aug 07 02:20:52 8GB sdhc :) Aug 07 02:21:05 * anrp <---> close to qvga Aug 07 02:21:16 and of course, you don't have to unmount an sd before unplugging it; it'll just not be guaranteed to be in a consistent state :] Aug 07 02:22:08 ah Aug 07 02:23:48 hm Aug 07 02:23:51 well it switched Aug 07 02:23:58 * anrp looks at a white screen Aug 07 02:37:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 07 02:39:53 a ha ha ! Aug 07 02:39:55 qvga! Aug 07 02:42:33 anrp, on Neo? Aug 07 02:43:12 apparently so Aug 07 02:43:14 cool Aug 07 02:44:18 yeah Aug 07 02:44:19 finally Aug 07 02:44:26 there's something up, i can't switch the mode online Aug 07 02:44:39 has to be done at startup -> something missing in initialization probably Aug 07 02:47:42 *nod* Aug 07 02:47:51 lessens the usefulness a bit, but it's a waypoint :] Aug 07 02:51:13 i still wish uboot wasn't broken Aug 07 02:51:27 In what way? Aug 07 02:52:38 doesn't build, blocking everything else in openmoko... Aug 07 02:52:45 anyway, time for pics! Aug 07 02:52:55 ah Aug 07 02:56:56 Yay pix! Aug 07 02:58:11 i think the timings that stefan came up with are wrong, there's a lot of smearing with them... however if it uses the (supposedly incorrect for the mode) VGA timings its sharp (still a bit of flicker though) Aug 07 02:59:23 http://atocha.mit.edu/~anrp/neo_neo/ Aug 07 02:59:24 anyway >_> **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 07 02:59:57 2007