**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 08 02:59:57 2007 Aug 08 03:04:08 sigh off to bed already.... damn pita women.... Aug 08 03:14:42 Curiously, how far along is the Openmoko's software stack? I'm waiting to buy one until I can at least make and receive phone calls and sms messages with some normality. Aug 08 03:15:01 Crashes and stupid UI are not a big deal... I just want it to be more than a brick. ;) Aug 08 03:15:16 wasabi: i'm the same, but I'm really thinking wifi on the ones in oct will be worth waiting for Aug 08 03:15:24 * doc|home wants now :( Aug 08 03:15:25 Oh, new hardware then? Aug 08 03:15:26 I'm waiting for video acceleration and wifi... Then it'll have all I want. Aug 08 03:15:29 How often is hardware refreshed? Aug 08 03:15:43 Mukunda: video acceleration may have you waiting a while Aug 08 03:16:00 wasabi: don't know yet :/ Aug 08 03:16:16 but once it gets wifi, I'm buying :) Aug 08 03:16:41 doc|home: but I thought it was meant to be in the one that comes in october, 2D/3D acceleration will come with that one. Aug 08 03:17:08 How is the software stack, anyways? Aug 08 03:17:53 Is it a monolithic distro or does it borrow from existing distros? Aug 08 03:18:01 I'm liking hte lateslt maemo stuff, which actually has dpkg. Aug 08 03:18:14 Makes development super easy to track... just prepare new packages and install them. Aug 08 03:19:25 THat's usually ended up being why I dislike embedded linux environments. So much ripping apart of existing infrastructure just to save a few bytes. Aug 08 03:25:23 That's what keeps it lean, wasabi. Without the embedded stuff, Linux might end up as huge bloatware, requiring 1GByte of RAM to boot -- like a certain other operating system. Aug 08 03:25:50 mwester: i'm getting an inkling Aug 08 03:25:50 Sure, but there are ways to accomplish that without compromising on quality. Maemo does a nice job. They use dpkg, but they strip out all the perl pieces of it. Aug 08 03:26:05 As well as the /usr/share/doc/* structures, etc. Aug 08 03:26:10 ipkg is what's used with most of the OE distros. Aug 08 03:26:25 Yeah. I'm not happy with that. I'd just like somebody to fix up dpkg to make it smaller. Aug 08 03:26:33 By removing perl. :) Aug 08 03:27:21 wasabi: you volunteering? Aug 08 03:27:28 lol Aug 08 03:27:43 If I was working on a device such as openmako, yeah. I would. ;) Aug 08 03:27:55 rwhitby: say you got a little feisty earlier :) Aug 08 03:28:33 hmm Aug 08 03:29:25 sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind ;-) Aug 08 03:29:59 you got that right Aug 08 03:30:57 sometimes i wish the neo had usb2...rootfs takes awhile Aug 08 03:31:37 hmm... the gdm in the neo... is it... whatever they call it, 3g? Aug 08 03:31:41 s/gdm/gsm/ Aug 08 03:31:41 wasabi meant: hmm... the gsm in the neo... is it... whatever they call it, 3g? Aug 08 03:31:52 Oh, that's a cool bot. Aug 08 03:32:26 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Aug 08 03:33:46 that should be in the topic imho Aug 08 03:34:02 btw: love the splash screen :) Aug 08 03:34:30 oh ok. Aug 08 03:34:37 ahh well, n/m then. heh. Aug 08 03:37:36 wasabi: no, it's 2.5g afaik Aug 08 03:37:51 Mukunda: I'm not sure but I don't think so Aug 08 03:38:06 why is hardware video acceleration a big deal? Aug 08 03:38:57 pretty-ness Aug 08 03:39:04 and ability to play video Aug 08 03:39:58 meh, if it has a webbrowser I'll be happy. Video would only suck battery anyway. Aug 08 03:42:22 doc|home: well because I want the openmoko to basically replace my laptop, which I only use for irc, web-browsing, ebooks, video and a little music. Aug 08 03:43:07 fair enough, not sure how seamless that'll be. Would videos have to be converted to fit the screen format? Aug 08 03:43:55 I want it for the same thing, but have an mp3 player for music (40GB) and don't like reading books off screens, much rather the dead wood variety :) Aug 08 03:43:57 yes, most likely Aug 08 03:48:56 Is this going to be involved with openmoko at all? http://www.pimlico-project.org/ Aug 08 03:50:15 "This also allows for easy porting to various GTK+ based mobile frameworks such as Maemo and OpenMoko as well as desktop usage." Aug 08 03:50:21 looks like it, but if not, you could :) Aug 08 03:50:40 I think it is, I remember reading about EDS lite Aug 08 03:51:05 http://www.pimlico-project.org/contacts.html Aug 08 03:51:11 shows a screenshot of openmoko Aug 08 03:51:34 doc|home: mm, yes... The main thing I want the neo for is the ebook, my laptop can comfortable do other stuff, but reading ebooks on it sucks... Perhaps I should just buy the books in paper form. Aug 08 03:52:58 doc | home: but aren't we developing our own PIM suite ? Aug 08 04:07:20 wonder when mame is ported over, maybe not till the GTA02 is out Aug 08 04:13:24 when I run my application on the actual phone I get all sorts of segfaults and crashes, but when I compile for i686 and run locally, I have no problems. Anyone have any tips? Aug 08 04:29:59 looks like OM2007.2 won't build on Debian Sarge. Aug 08 04:30:11 (missing X11/extensions/XI.h) Aug 08 04:35:21 rwhitby: just find the package the lib is part of an install it Aug 08 04:35:52 linux_galore: looks like it doesn't exist in the version of X11 that Debian Sarge has. Aug 08 04:36:30 rwhitby: sarge runs a pretty stock X setup Aug 08 04:37:51 I'm just going to dist-upgrade the box to Etch. Life's too short. Aug 08 04:38:26 I think it's an X11R6 vs X.Org thing Aug 08 04:40:15 mrface: EABI vs OABI? Aug 08 04:40:18 Has anyone been looking at using maemo mapper for the OpenMoko? Aug 08 04:40:33 I want help for bulilding the opemoko on Ubuntu 7.04 Aug 08 04:40:43 can anybody help me Aug 08 04:42:02 I see that you can get the GPS stuff out, from what I can see it would just be a matter of pointing maemo mapper to /tmp/gps.nmea Aug 08 04:42:31 jeremymc: I've been running maemo mapper on my n800 and pointing it to the neo via BT Aug 08 04:42:49 ya, I have a 770 and use mapper all the time. Aug 08 04:43:00 chetan: using mokomakefile? Aug 08 04:43:01 I noticed that the BT would work as well. Aug 08 04:43:07 That looks boring though ;-) Aug 08 04:44:13 ckuethe: i'm sorry, i don't know what that means Aug 08 04:48:09 jeremymc: yeah, but it's a first step :-) Aug 08 04:49:45 rwhitby: I was thinking along the lines of getting maemo mapper working on the moko, then trying to get it to talk to my existing BT GPS as a first step Aug 08 04:50:06 Then if that worked, look at using everything internally on the OpenMoko Aug 08 04:52:32 moin Aug 08 04:55:52 * rwhitby finishes a build of OM2007.2 Aug 08 05:04:44 is there an openmoko vmware image available? Aug 08 05:12:59 I'm sorry, someone replied to my question but my computer shutdown. Can you please repeat? Aug 08 05:14:44 mrface: type !logs to get links to log files including the last few mins Aug 08 05:15:03 !logs Aug 08 05:15:04 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Aug 08 05:15:05 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Aug 08 05:15:06 Live-logs are available at Aug 08 05:15:08 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Aug 08 05:15:10 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Aug 08 05:15:58 SpeedEvil: nice, thanks Aug 08 05:24:17 rwhitby: are you here? Aug 08 05:24:24 yep Aug 08 05:25:19 rwhitby: you're IRC client can do private chat right? Aug 08 05:25:23 your* Aug 08 05:25:37 yes Aug 08 05:25:45 just sent you a message Aug 08 05:26:01 you're not registered Aug 08 05:26:18 ohh damn. Aug 08 05:26:28 go to freenode? Aug 08 05:40:02 how can I know if I'm compiling for EABI vs OABI? I'm just using a bitbake recipe Aug 08 05:41:02 TARGET_OS = "linux-gnueabi" Aug 08 05:41:27 bitbake prints that out each time it runs Aug 08 05:41:28 I thought openmoko uses OABI Aug 08 05:41:39 oh cool Aug 08 05:45:16 rwhitby: uhoh, my TARGET_OS = "linux"... how can I change it? Aug 08 05:45:35 that means you're using OABI Aug 08 05:46:49 rwhitby: do I need to change it to EABI? Aug 08 05:46:55 OM2007.1 is OABI, OM2007.2 is EABI. You can't build OM2007.2 using the OM2007.1 build instructions (or the MokoMakefile, which embodies those instructions) Aug 08 05:47:10 mrface: how would I know what you need? Aug 08 05:48:18 sorry, I didn't know that.. the wiki just says "OABI. The old one, and the one openmoko uses." Aug 08 05:48:38 I'm still on OM2007.1 so I guess I'll stick with OABI Aug 08 05:52:21 doh, no libxml? Aug 08 05:54:56 any suggestions on how to save data from an application, other than hacking my own binary format? Aug 08 05:58:05 linux_galore: dist-upgrading from sarge to etch allows the OM2007.2 build to proceed. Aug 08 05:58:11 hmm, is the battery used in openmoko some generic easy to replace one and not specifically designed for the phone? at least it looks like so... Aug 08 05:58:12 piksi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 08 05:58:50 ~botsnack for aloril Aug 08 05:58:50 aw, gee, rwhitby Aug 08 05:59:24 wow, the first time i see an INFORMATIVE bot :-) and if found what i wanted from the wiki..! Aug 08 06:06:25 from what Ive seen the OM unit is a generic Nokia unit Aug 08 06:06:32 @ battery Aug 08 06:07:59 oh, nice Aug 08 06:09:08 But it won't charge with a nokia charger, but it charges with unofficial chargers Aug 08 06:09:26 s/But it/It/ Aug 08 06:09:26 CM meant: It won't charge with a nokia charger, but it charges with unofficial chargers Aug 08 06:09:39 !aloril battery Aug 08 06:09:52 meh Aug 08 06:09:55 battery? Aug 08 06:10:05 wifi? Aug 08 06:10:05 Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F Aug 08 06:10:29 aloril: Maybe a "battery" trigger should be added too :) Aug 08 06:10:32 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery Aug 08 06:10:43 ;-) Aug 08 06:10:46 :P Aug 08 06:13:25 anyone had any build isses with gtk+2.10.14 on OM-2007.2 ? Aug 08 06:13:32 damn, i hope neo will keep the pace and release in october Aug 08 06:13:44 i want rid of symbian Aug 08 06:14:01 I saw the oops on the wiki, ie no we havent run out of stock etc Aug 08 06:14:17 sorry Planet Openmoko Aug 08 06:14:25 not the wiki Aug 08 06:15:33 Ive noticed allot of people on new sites saying they would love to get an openmoko because they are pissed at whats available Aug 08 06:15:38 new* Aug 08 06:15:41 News* Aug 08 06:16:32 Im just waiting for the GTA02 to be released myself Aug 08 06:17:00 linux_galore: well, i'm part of that group, that's why i'm waiting for the "stable" release with wifi Aug 08 06:17:33 i'll gladly throw ~600e on a good pda/computer/phone Aug 08 06:18:01 piksi: I think its only US$450 for the handset Aug 08 06:18:18 but even though e.g. E90 is kind of cool, i hated the fact that the platform is closed and bundled with all sort of realmedia crap and symbian development is *hell* imho Aug 08 06:19:23 piksi: the E90 though is pretty funky monkey Aug 08 06:19:49 piksi: Ive got an N95 and Im pretty impressed with it Aug 08 06:20:05 I just wish it ran Linux Aug 08 06:20:12 linux_galore: yes, it IS nice, but to harness all its power.. i think s60 3rd-ed is restricting and crippling its power and possibilities Aug 08 06:22:02 linux_galore: besides, imo the biggest problem in symbian is that the backwards compatibility and upgrading is in practice not possible. 9300i i had was stuck with the slow and crashing symbian 7.1 Aug 08 06:22:18 piksi: ouch Aug 08 06:22:44 piksi: 9.1 on the E90 looks interesting though, be a while before OM gets to that stage Aug 08 06:23:12 yes, they have done a lot to improve symbian, new memory handling and a lot of security tightening Aug 08 06:23:14 (and price) Aug 08 06:24:13 piksi: if you look on youtube there is a coloured it geek who has returned his iPhone because the E90 he also owns just works better Aug 08 06:24:43 search under E90 Aug 08 06:24:45 well i'm not surprised, imo iPhone is overpriced bundle of old hw + restricted software. Aug 08 06:25:08 in the same way that some nokia models have been "dumbed down" for the US market Aug 08 06:25:51 I love how the iPhone is aimed at the socialites, one small problem, the digicam has no flash so those late night pics of the party/orgy wont happen Aug 08 06:27:01 iphone has some good ideas but again, i think apple has concentrated more on the hyping of apple-like smooth'n'cool interface and iphone-like features. they didn't advertise iphone as a tech-monster gadget with all the possible features, instead they advertised it as a trendy phone and succeeded in that Aug 08 06:27:23 piksi: well I think Apple hit a sweet spot personally, the cpu grunt and 3D acceleration has hit the point on mobile devices were you can do lots of eye candy effects, other providers just got flat footed Aug 08 06:27:55 give it a year everyone will have 3D effects Aug 08 06:28:29 give it 2 months and the OM will have 3D stuff on the GTA02 Aug 08 06:28:38 well, as i said, it hits the spot on trend consumers and succeeds :-) but i doubt it will penetrate eu market that well Aug 08 06:29:32 here (at least in finland) consumers seem to be more after the features and nokia-style design (like n95/e90) is "in the blood" so it's considered cool looking anyway and people don't wish for anything more fancier Aug 08 06:29:34 piksi: well the iPhone suffers the same problem as the Apple desktop and laptop platform but worse, lack of enterprise apps Aug 08 06:30:11 piksi, it's amazing the iphone hackers have got as far as they have, hats off to them I say. Aug 08 06:30:23 if adobe and Microsoft pulled their software of the Apple platform it would seriously suck Aug 08 06:30:48 Much easier to work with something open in the first place. Hopefully this will be much better supported than the Zaurus as far as FIC goes and comunity involement Aug 08 06:31:25 darmou: the zaurus I found just didnt quite hit all the right buttons Aug 08 06:31:28 darmou: yes, i bow at them for the effort! but at the same time i can't stop smirking at how crippled the platform is and how some apple fanatics don't seem to admit it ;-) Aug 08 06:32:01 piksi: ask them to open a pda or edit a doc file muawahaahah Aug 08 06:32:06 (by crippled i mean lack of software as linux_galore said) Aug 08 06:32:06 pdf* Aug 08 06:32:19 piksi, the problem is that both the neo and iphone are using old network technology. Here in Oz everyone is going over to 3g Aug 08 06:32:32 i'm hoping FIC will put out a 3g phone soon. Aug 08 06:32:44 Oz? Aug 08 06:32:45 darmou: it already is 3G Aug 08 06:32:50 Oz = Australia Aug 08 06:32:53 ah Aug 08 06:33:26 darmou: same here in europe, 3G has hit through Aug 08 06:33:26 Not sure about Europe last time I was there GSM was pretty much still in use in most places. I was with orange then. Aug 08 06:34:25 linux_galore, hws has confirmed that FIC is looking into it as far as I know current neo is not 3g Aug 08 06:34:30 piksi: technically Telstra has 3.5G (Next G) Aug 08 06:34:56 linux_galore, how does that compare with 3? Aug 08 06:35:21 linux_galore, I heard that 3 have a new grroup ogf phones with faster internet the X something or other Aug 08 06:35:25 darmou: they use CDMA as the RF thus they have more speed over longer distances Aug 08 06:35:42 they use 800mhz Aug 08 06:36:18 darmou: yeah, they are called open and they will use WiMAX but I doubt thats for mobiles, maybe laptops Aug 08 06:36:27 s/open/opal/ Aug 08 06:36:27 linux_galore meant: darmou: yeah, they are called opal and they will use WiMAX but I doubt thats for mobiles, maybe laptops Aug 08 06:37:43 darmou: although I did see a mobile with WiMAX yesterday on a website, hit the shelves in Korea next year Aug 08 06:38:36 linux_galore, it will be interesting to see if Unwired changes over to WiMaX standard. Aug 08 06:38:53 darmou: Next G is a pin though because Telstra has used a differnt none cdma setup for the data nothing works with it accept a handful of handsets Aug 08 06:39:10 pin=pain? Aug 08 06:39:33 pain* Aug 08 06:39:58 let me type that again I got a phone call right in the middle Aug 08 06:40:02 anyone know how to detect headphones being plugged in? Aug 08 06:41:06 darmou: Next G is a pain though because Telstra has uses CDMA for the data were everyone else use GSM so nothing is available accept a handful of handsets Aug 08 06:41:19 s/has// Aug 08 06:41:20 linux_galore meant: darmou: Next G is a pain though because Telstra uses CDMA for the data were everyone else use GSM so nothing is available accept a handful of handsets Aug 08 06:42:11 I thought telstra was getting rid of CDMA, interesting Aug 08 06:43:13 darmou: no they cheated, CDMA (as in the rf part) is actually way better than GSM because it works over greater distances, perfect for Australia, one problem no phones Aug 08 06:43:54 linux_galore, I thought korea uses CDMA? Aug 08 06:44:02 darmou: Next G is a hybrid service, the software network stack is all gsm but the rf is CDMA Aug 08 06:44:08 linux_galore, does'nt the US use it in some places also? Aug 08 06:44:30 oh ok, so telstra can make the most of their existing inferstructure Aug 08 06:44:33 darmou: yes it does but not with the 3G data Aug 08 06:44:48 and @ 800mhz Aug 08 06:45:54 darmou: you can see the logic, they already had a cdma network and they needed a mobile data service that worked over long distances, gsm is ok for voice so why not use the CDMA inferstructure for the data Aug 08 06:46:58 yep and they shut down CDMA for voice so it's clear for data use only perfect Aug 08 06:47:01 darmou: thats why if you look at the specs on allot of phones sold here in AU they have 800GSM not just 800 as in Europe, its a warning for Next G customer that the phones wont work Aug 08 06:48:01 ie when you look at the supported frequencies Aug 08 06:48:18 for a mobile phone Aug 08 06:48:20 this is like Digital TV all over again. Small country with totally differents standards to rest of world or an unusal combination anywhay Aug 08 06:49:28 darmou: well our problem is lack of population and huge distances, allot of technologies coming out of Asia and Europe just wont fit Aug 08 06:49:57 the underlying technology is great but the rf side is just not going to happen Aug 08 06:50:37 linux_galore, well US has the problem of the huge distances, but the advantage is here most of our population are in the capital cities, much easier to cover. Aug 08 06:51:03 which is pretty much what 3 hutchinson did just cover the capital cities and that's it Aug 08 06:51:10 then claimed huge coverage Aug 08 06:51:15 when you have towns seperated by a 3 hour drive and nothing in the middle accept a handful of people you start to understand the problems Aug 08 06:52:45 Um, AU is still using GSM. Aug 08 06:53:14 and will be for a long time stil Aug 08 06:53:16 l Aug 08 06:53:40 Yeah Aug 08 06:53:59 Just because they are using '3G' data doesn't mean they aren't still using GSM Aug 08 06:54:11 rwhitby, I'm not sure if it will be as long as you think, given most networks are shutting down GSM non 3g networks Aug 08 06:54:28 darmou: please give a reference for that assertion Aug 08 06:55:17 (as I don't believe it, unless you have some facts that I don't know about) Aug 08 06:56:20 rwhitby, http://apcmag.com/6525/telstra_softens_its_iphone_criticism Aug 08 06:57:09 That's just data Aug 08 06:57:15 darmou: where in that article does it say that GSM/GPRS or EDGE is being dropped? Aug 08 06:57:56 GSM will be around for an age. Aug 08 06:58:18 darmou: when the GSM coverage maps at http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_au.shtml start to reduce in size, I'll start to take notice of what you're asserting. Aug 08 06:59:13 rwhitby, in that link it included 3 which uses 3g so is GSM=3g? Aug 08 06:59:15 as well Aug 08 06:59:26 no Aug 08 06:59:31 just to clarify Aug 08 06:59:46 GSM is on 900/1800 in australia Aug 08 07:00:03 3G is on 850 and 2100 (depending on your carrier) Aug 08 07:00:34 as you can see, all the carriers (except "3" of course) offer both 3G and GSM. Aug 08 07:01:09 well I seem to remember big anouncements by telstra wanting to consolidate their networks down to one Aug 08 07:01:16 mornin'! Aug 08 07:01:19 Maps of AU are amusing with the size of the country vs the size of the populated areas. Aug 08 07:01:32 darmou: That will be them ditching CDMA Aug 08 07:01:57 darmou: one network == one core network, not one radio access technology. Aug 08 07:02:23 rwhitby, ah ok thanks for clarifying that Aug 08 07:02:45 See 3GPP spec 25.401 for the difference ... Aug 08 07:03:38 here's finland: Aug 08 07:03:40 http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=fi&net=t3 Aug 08 07:03:46 anyone tried building an image recently ? Aug 08 07:04:07 In particular Figure 4b of 3GPP TS25.401 V6.7.0 shows how Telstra can have "one network" with both GERAN and UTRAN radio access technologies Aug 08 07:04:22 well ok, finland has 16ppl/km^2 and australia has 2,6/km^2 :-> Aug 08 07:04:36 but well, finland doesn't have deserts Aug 08 07:04:43 so it's a bit uneven comparison Aug 08 07:05:00 rwhitby: is mokomakefile up to date atm ? Aug 08 07:05:08 ScaredyCat: I've built both OM2007.1 and OM2007.2 recently Aug 08 07:05:18 hrrmph :/ Aug 08 07:05:21 (OM2007.2 with a different Makefile) Aug 08 07:05:32 rwhitby: care to share that makefile? :) Aug 08 07:05:46 i tried, but i ran out of diskspace :F Aug 08 07:06:03 jgm: sure: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/Makefile - type "make openmoko" Aug 08 07:06:22 dagnabit Aug 08 07:06:30 rwhitby: and that makes OM2007.2? Aug 08 07:06:35 (that's the NSLU2-Linux "Master Makefile", where the concepts for the MokoMakefile were refined over the last two years) Aug 08 07:06:40 jgm: yep Aug 08 07:06:42 openmoko or openmoko-image ? Aug 08 07:07:06 Great, thanks Aug 08 07:07:08 ScaredyCat: those two are the same target Aug 08 07:07:22 ok, so that'll fail too then ;) Aug 08 07:07:34 Note that you should use a completely different directory tree - don't mix it with a MokoMakefile tree. Aug 08 07:07:45 Pah :/ Aug 08 07:07:48 (I use /home/slug and /home/moko respectively) Aug 08 07:08:08 and you will need to rebuild everything from scratch, cause it's a different ABI Aug 08 07:08:16 and gllin won't work on OM2007.2 ... Aug 08 07:08:25 What's the space requirement (roughly speaking)? Aug 08 07:08:42 should be about the same as an OM2007.1 build Aug 08 07:08:50 gah Aug 08 07:08:58 * ScaredyCat whips rwhitby Aug 08 07:09:24 * rwhitby wonders why ... Aug 08 07:09:43 minie fails on uicmoc4-native-4.3.0 Aug 08 07:09:49 mine even Aug 08 07:10:01 ah, I dist-upgraded from Sarge to Etch to fix that one. Aug 08 07:10:07 just because , rwhitby Aug 08 07:10:26 that's no small fix! Aug 08 07:10:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_american_union Aug 08 07:11:01 it's a redirect Aug 08 07:11:18 x11proto-core-dev don't exist in Sarge, so there was no other way Aug 08 07:11:23 er, sorry, wrong channel :/ Aug 08 07:11:54 OM2007.2 fails to build on CentOS 4, however. So I can only recommend Debian Etch for building both OM2007.1 and OM2007.2 Aug 08 07:12:06 omg Aug 08 07:12:22 although 3 hours is nothing, I talked to a farmer were he had to install a webcam on one side of his station to watch the cattle at a watering hole, it takes him 7 hours to drive to it Aug 08 07:12:58 I can see it now.... being forced to use ubuntu Aug 08 07:13:06 lol Aug 08 07:13:09 ~convert 100000 acres to hectares Aug 08 07:13:11 100000 acres is approximately 40468.6 hectares Aug 08 07:13:16 got a buildhost rwhitby? Aug 08 07:13:18 ~convert 1000000 acres to hectares Aug 08 07:13:19 the evil Ubuntu bots will get you Aug 08 07:13:20 1000000 acres is approximately 404686 hectares Aug 08 07:13:32 * ScaredyCat hides from the ubuntu Aug 08 07:13:40 that's how big some cattle stations are in Australia Aug 08 07:14:07 ive been trying to build OM-2007.2 here on arch.. keeps failing on gtk+ Aug 08 07:14:25 found a bug in openembedded that a fedora user posted that seems to be the same.. Aug 08 07:14:38 ScaredyCat: OM2007.2 is currently building on the nslu2-linux autobuilder, and when it finishes the images and packages will be uploaded to the nslu2-linux world-wide package mirrors Aug 08 07:14:44 yeah, we have cattle stations bigger than wales/england/scotland combined Aug 08 07:14:44 anyone experienced gtk+ failing on 2007.2? Aug 08 07:14:56 rushforth: yeah gtk+ fails on CentOS 4 for me Aug 08 07:15:10 rwhitby: nice that im not along :) Aug 08 07:15:15 ^along^alone Aug 08 07:15:22 it fails on everything except ubuntu... it's an ubuntu virus ;) Aug 08 07:15:44 ScaredyCat: works fine on Debian Etch Aug 08 07:15:46 rwhitby: fwiw: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2708 Aug 08 07:16:14 ScaredyCat: heh, there are a fair few people who work for Ubuntu who are ex Gnome dev people Aug 08 07:16:17 that's just ubuntu with a different coat on Aug 08 07:16:28 rushforth: yeah, same error here Aug 08 07:16:43 * ScaredyCat pokes rwhitby with a poking stick Aug 08 07:16:47 ScaredyCat: I think the derivation is in the opposite direction ... Aug 08 07:16:47 * ScaredyCat runs away Aug 08 07:16:53 I know... Aug 08 07:17:13 but debian users are usually rabid debian users... I was teasing Aug 08 07:17:21 linux_galore: if you think .au is big, try russia ;-) Aug 08 07:17:22 Im on Ubuntu gutsty, fun and games Aug 08 07:17:23 One thing I've learnt in open source is to always use the same distro as the core team when trying to build something Aug 08 07:17:46 piksi: Russia and Canada have very similar problems as AU Aug 08 07:18:07 Since the only GUI app I use in Linux is Emacs, and I only use that through an ssh window, I have no alliance with any distro in particular ... Aug 08 07:18:23 rwhitby: yeah, but that's usually debian.. or more ubuntu ... both of which are the spawn of satan Aug 08 07:18:35 *yawn* Aug 08 07:18:35 Emacs, an OS needing a kernel Aug 08 07:18:53 ScaredyCat: don't rush to ubuntu (feisty) it has the wrong version of monotome from the looks of things Aug 08 07:19:05 linux_galore: Emacs, the OS independence layer ... Aug 08 07:19:15 I don;t want to go anywhere near it jgm :) Aug 08 07:19:53 wonder if anyone will port poko to OM Aug 08 07:20:06 --08:19:10-- http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile Aug 08 07:20:13 is that right rwhitby? Aug 08 07:20:35 ScaredyCat: that's the mokomakefile, for OM2007.2 Aug 08 07:20:40 oops, OM2007.1 Aug 08 07:20:47 ok, good.. Aug 08 07:20:52 did it move or somehting? Aug 08 07:20:56 I can see the elite OM users all only using command line apps and bagging the UI people Aug 08 07:21:05 no, that's it's SCM location Aug 08 07:21:28 faurry muff Aug 08 07:21:45 no woking furries Aug 08 07:22:02 the published location just redirects to there, so that I can repoint it to projects.openmoko.org when that site ever gets stable enough to use. Aug 08 07:22:23 Im out, time to head off Aug 08 07:22:23 ahhh ok got it Aug 08 07:22:30 hadn't noticed... Aug 08 07:22:35 the redir Aug 08 07:25:32 OM2007.2 images should appear in http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ in a few hours or so Aug 08 07:31:47 (ipkg.nslu2-linux.org is in the same datacenter as master.kernel.org) Aug 08 07:39:23 good stuff.... thanks Aug 08 07:46:08 morning Aug 08 07:47:47 TRIsoft, are you THE TRIsoft of Zaurus fame? Aug 08 07:50:36 ScaredyCat: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/osuosl/IMG_2047 <- nslu2-linux.org at the top, master.kernel.org at the bottom. mythtv.org in the middle. Aug 08 07:50:58 (ka6sox is the nslu2-linux infrastructure manager) Aug 08 07:51:00 Hm, what causes the neo to discharge when it's off? Aug 08 07:51:20 I hope that's not your house Aug 08 07:51:38 darmou: Yep, i guess we're :D Aug 08 07:52:47 TRIsoft, cool Aug 08 07:52:54 ScaredyCat: that's at OSUOSL. Here's our new autobuilder that will be installed next month: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/Cheli/DSCN0399 Aug 08 07:53:31 that one will have 2 NSLU2's embedded into it (for native builds) Aug 08 07:55:33 jgm I'm using Ubunutu with openembedded but using a direct download of monotone not the standard old one that comes with Ubuntu Aug 08 07:55:53 rwhitby: very impressive... Aug 08 07:56:09 for some reason Ubuntu does not have the latest versions of some dev tools:( Aug 08 07:57:57 daxxar: such as? Aug 08 07:58:21 hrw: I mean, I turned off my Neo last night, disconnected, and I woke up, and it refused to boot. Aug 08 07:58:31 s/and I/and when I/ Aug 08 07:58:31 daxxar meant: hrw: I mean, I turned off my Neo last night, disconnected, and when I woke up, and it refused to boot. Aug 08 07:58:46 08 09:56 < darmou> for some reason Ubuntu does not have the latest versions of some dev tools:( Aug 08 07:58:55 I was talking about this Aug 08 07:58:59 hrw: Right, use the right nick, then. ;-) Aug 08 07:59:15 (I don't read minds) Aug 08 08:00:00 ops.. tab completion... Aug 08 08:00:02 sorry Aug 08 08:00:16 darmou: tools such as? Aug 08 08:00:23 hrw, monotone Aug 08 08:00:30 :o Aug 08 08:00:39 * rwhitby uses monotone 0.29 still Aug 08 08:00:58 darmou: monotone 0.26+ is ok Aug 08 08:01:03 and gutsy has dependency problems with monotone :P Aug 08 08:01:22 moin Aug 08 08:01:30 oh, hang on, I just upgraded to etch on the builder. so I use 0.31 now. Aug 08 08:01:50 hrw, I have had problems with Ubuntu's version of monotone in the past which is why I complite from source now Aug 08 08:02:14 feisty uses 0.31 but the nslu2-linux-mtn that was downloaded seems to be an older version so needs upgrading (which is fine, but regenerating the roster is a killer) Aug 08 08:02:15 hrw, but it's good to know other people will not be bitten by that gotcha Aug 08 08:02:22 OE releases monotone database snapshots for 0.29 through 0.35 Aug 08 08:02:37 darmou: you use ubuntu, have you got openmoko built with mokomakefile?? I'm having a lot of problems getting that done. Aug 08 08:02:40 jgm: just get one from http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ instaed Aug 08 08:03:04 Mukunda: I use ubuntu and mokomakefile works fine Aug 08 08:03:15 Mukunda, sorry I'm using openembedded for Zaurus stuff Aug 08 08:03:28 rwhitby: willdo, thanks Aug 08 08:04:22 * rwhitby considers updating the nslu2-linux Master Makefile to use the OE snapshots for mtn ... Aug 08 08:04:24 Mukunda, I'm looking to get an openmoko device when it becomes consumer level release Aug 08 08:04:37 Basheri: when did you build it? Because I've been trying all day, it's gotten pretty far, but died on this bluez-utils thing. Aug 08 08:04:48 Yeah, same here. Waiting for wifi and video acceleration hardware. Aug 08 08:05:10 i tried yesterday, but i ran out of disk space Aug 08 08:05:39 mut it was somewhere at the end of 'make qemu' Aug 08 08:05:42 rwhitby: nslu project db has more merges then OE one often Aug 08 08:05:42 *but Aug 08 08:06:02 hrw: true Aug 08 08:06:18 hrw: but shouldn't that sync back Aug 08 08:06:44 (we do have some other branches, but those are small enough that an mtn pull from the nslu2-linux server would get them) Aug 08 08:07:30 rwhitby: montone 0.36 has server hook to notify when sync is needed - worth trying Aug 08 08:07:43 * rwhitby heads home to flash OM2007.2 on his Bv3. Aug 08 08:07:55 Well here is my latest error message, don't know if it'll help much. http://rafb.net/p/l9ztSZ16.html Aug 08 08:09:01 Mukunda: looks like it's trying to link an i686 libusb with an arm bluez-utils Aug 08 08:09:26 I would suggesting doing a make package-clean-* on libusb and bluez-utils Aug 08 08:10:02 and removing any local modifications you have made Aug 08 08:10:08 rwhitby: thanks! Aug 08 08:10:14 I've made none. :-\ Aug 08 08:10:17 I can't program, heh. Aug 08 08:24:38 hi Aug 08 08:35:50 svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused Aug 08 08:35:52 Anyone getting this? Aug 08 08:36:17 bitbake, hm Aug 08 08:36:40 same here Aug 08 08:37:07 Hm, guess they're having downtime. *tries to find a status update* Aug 08 08:37:54 Hm, websvn is working, so I guess it's just the svnserve being offline. Aug 08 08:39:05 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 08 08:39:22 Hmm, in local.conf what should I have for BUILD_ARCH? Aug 08 08:40:04 Mukunda: i686 Aug 08 08:40:10 Assuming you're on an x86 Aug 08 08:40:22 roflmao Aug 08 08:40:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera Aug 08 08:40:26 Yes, hmm. Aug 08 08:41:21 Gizmhail thinks that No. in the first list, means 'No I don;t want' Aug 08 08:41:43 Haha Aug 08 08:45:36 Mukunda: what is your build arch? Aug 08 08:45:59 i686? Aug 08 08:46:52 Yup. Aug 08 08:47:07 Core duo, so still i686 I believe. Aug 08 08:47:46 so it's just i686 then Aug 08 08:48:05 BUILD_ARCH = "i686" Aug 08 08:48:13 I'll clean it all and try building again. Hrmmm. I don't see why it would be different. Aug 08 08:48:17 Yeah, that's what I had. Aug 08 08:49:25 or `uname -m` Aug 08 08:55:56 stefan_schmidt: what is the status of the ficphone dialer? I tested the updated source on magician now, and even the phone alert is working now. Aug 08 08:59:55 ScaredyCat: this is what confuses me. Aug 08 08:59:55 OE Build Configuration: Aug 08 08:59:55 BB_VERSION = "1.6.9" Aug 08 08:59:55 OE_REVISION = "" Aug 08 08:59:55 TARGET_ARCH = "arm" Aug 08 09:00:08 Sorry for the spam... But local.conf has i686... Aug 08 09:00:31 target arc is what you aim to run it on... Aug 08 09:01:55 hehe, I wrote a perl script to track the ups status and post it to irc whenever it changes ;) Aug 08 09:02:16 ScaredyCat: oh, hrmm, will mokomakefile build qemu to? I thought that this would run on x86. Aug 08 09:02:24 so it'll never post then xkr47 ;) Aug 08 09:02:40 Mukunda, yes Aug 08 09:02:51 maybe they delay the delivery by 5 minutes for each status request ;) Aug 08 09:03:30 yes make qemu Aug 08 09:03:50 quick question, is gforge under free/open source license? Aug 08 09:03:51 but still it seems like there is some dbus issues with the dialer Aug 08 09:04:04 xkr47: can't you get the sms notifications? Aug 08 09:04:23 do they deliver worldwide ? Aug 08 09:04:42 I didn't bother checking, assumed it was some US only service Aug 08 09:06:30 UPS != USPO Aug 08 09:07:28 Fark, I did make clean-package-* re-ran the thing, and it still fails on bluez-utils Aug 08 09:08:08 XorA, am I supposed to be able to parse that?-) Aug 08 09:08:23 * XorA install javascript on xkr47 Aug 08 09:08:32 Where's the menu for openmoko-panel (?) located? Aug 08 09:08:35 (the one in the top left) Aug 08 09:08:37 USPO: no such variable Aug 08 09:19:36 * xkr47 defines neorotic: neurotic nerds waiting for their neos :) Aug 08 09:19:40 Woot, PAN + forwarding works fine! Aug 08 09:19:57 Now I have a mobile network that's properly routed from the local network Aug 08 09:21:39 shame the browser crashes all the time Aug 08 09:22:00 berlios still farked? Aug 08 09:23:09 YEs Aug 08 09:23:29 :'( Aug 08 09:25:12 who said germans were efficient Aug 08 09:27:21 Well this is just becoming depressing, any ideas? http://rafb.net/p/W7gPlx55.html Aug 08 09:28:16 good morning Aug 08 09:28:34 do a `file /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb.so` Aug 08 09:29:04 Hrm, the dropbear ssh client doesn't default to an identity file Aug 08 09:29:09 it is probably for x86 Aug 08 09:32:04 * daxxar creates an /etc/profile.d/ssh-identity with [[ -f "$HOME/.ssh/id_rsa" ]] && alias ssh="ssh -i $HOME/id_rsa" Aug 08 09:32:44 s#$HOME/id_rsa#$HOME/.ssh/id_rsa# Aug 08 09:32:46 whoa, I have finally 2007.2 (OM/OE HEAD) images which work in qemu. Anybody want em? Aug 08 09:34:49 rwhitby: ping Aug 08 09:34:50 Dmitry_Platonov: yes please Aug 08 09:35:02 mdt: oh, it's a symbolic link. Aug 08 09:35:03 /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb.so: symbolic link to `libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4' Aug 08 09:35:10 Not sure where that's located though. Aug 08 09:35:17 same dir Aug 08 09:35:18 It's not on the host is it? Aug 08 09:35:24 Hmm not there then. Aug 08 09:35:47 Oh yes it is. Aug 08 09:35:51 /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 does not exist? don't think so Aug 08 09:36:15 mukunda@mukunda-laptop:~/moko$ file /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 Aug 08 09:36:18 /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped Aug 08 09:36:19 fgau, where to host? Aug 08 09:37:30 mdt: okay, so it should be for arm right? How could I fix that? Aug 08 09:38:00 Dmitry_Platonov: moment, I'll prepare ... Aug 08 09:38:44 Mukunda, what did u try to do? Aug 08 09:39:33 mdt: nothing, I'm just using mokomakefile Aug 08 09:39:44 I've just followed the instructions. Aug 08 09:39:47 Mukunda, 'nothing'? hm.... Aug 08 09:40:10 Well make openmoko-devel-image Aug 08 09:40:13 And then sat back. Aug 08 09:40:30 After following the previous instructions to install the tools needed to bootstrap it. Aug 08 09:41:55 Mukunda, worked for me. have you done a `cd build; . ../setup-env; cd ..`? Aug 08 09:42:14 Oh, no. Aug 08 09:42:21 Mukunda, if so you can use bitbake directly... Aug 08 09:42:31 Mukunda, you don't need for mokomakefile Aug 08 09:42:54 Mukunda, after doing that you can do a `bitbake libusb` Aug 08 09:44:32 ;-) Aug 08 09:44:48 Thanks. Aug 08 09:46:45 How do I instruct MokoMakefile / bb to build a package from the official OE repo? Can I do that easily? Aug 08 09:48:10 Dmitry_Platonov: http://events.ccc.de/camp/2007/Ftp Aug 08 09:55:42 Ah, DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS. Aug 08 09:55:44 :-) Aug 08 09:55:59 Dmitry_Platonov: yes the have limited; but I have now acces to ftp://81.163.50.240 Aug 08 09:56:54 fgau, may be I'll send via email? Aug 08 09:58:16 ftp://81.163.50.240 tells me:10 users (the maximum) are already logged in, sorry Aug 08 10:02:26 Dmitry_Platonov: Do you want someone to host your qemu image? Aug 08 10:14:47 daxxar, OM image, not qemu. It just works in qemu ok. And yes, I'd like someone to host it. Aug 08 10:16:57 Dmitry_Platonov: ftp://daxxar.slask.no/uploads/ Aug 08 10:18:47 daxxar, thanks. Uploading. Aug 08 10:19:04 Dmitry_Platonov: Let me know when it's done, and I'll move it to http://daxxar.slask.no/om/ Aug 08 10:19:10 If that URL is acceptable. ;-) Aug 08 10:19:58 daxxar, perfectly acceptable. Aug 08 10:29:51 morning folks Aug 08 10:33:47 daxxar, done Aug 08 10:36:45 mickeyl: moin moin Aug 08 10:37:06 :) that's the proper way of saying good morning Aug 08 10:37:23 even here in Hessen we'd like to say that Aug 08 10:38:01 and in Hamburg also ;) Aug 08 10:39:24 for sure. that's where it comes from doesn't it? Aug 08 10:39:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] Aug 08 10:40:22 yeah, openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070808091924.rootfs.jffs2 is ready for flashing Aug 08 10:40:33 wait Aug 08 10:40:40 thx for the patch mickeyl Aug 08 10:40:40 do you have a brand new today2 build? Aug 08 10:40:54 oh it's from OM Aug 08 10:40:58 Dmitry_Platonov: Did you finish upload? Aug 08 10:41:12 daxxar, yes. Aug 08 10:41:21 uboot too? o.0 Aug 08 10:41:55 uboot is optional Aug 08 10:42:27 http://daxxar.slask.no/om/ Aug 08 10:42:56 daxxar, thanks Aug 08 10:43:39 kinetic scrolling thingie is cool. Aug 08 10:44:36 is the pen strong enough to budge it ?-D Aug 08 10:45:47 Dmitry_Platonov: 'tis a pleasure. Aug 08 10:46:25 Dmitry_Platonov: If you need anything updated or anything else hosted, just dump it in uploads and poke me on IRC (or email me at daxxar ___AT___ daxxar.com, or jorgen ___AT___ devsoft.no) Aug 08 10:46:48 daxxar, ok. Aug 08 11:03:54 daxxar, HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden Aug 08 11:04:04 please check permissions Aug 08 11:04:07 My bad, sec Aug 08 11:04:24 I was changing apache config, so probably moved the files as root ;-P Aug 08 11:04:37 Oh, right, I moved them, so they've got anon privs. Aug 08 11:05:14 Right, there Aug 08 11:05:21 ScaredyCat: gu Aug 08 11:05:26 daxxar: thx Aug 08 11:05:55 Hi Dmitry_Platonov! Aug 08 11:06:07 Hi Elrond! Aug 08 11:06:18 that build still fails, but with 'no rule' errors Aug 08 11:06:53 ScaredyCat: what build is that? Aug 08 11:07:06 slug of om2007.2 Aug 08 11:08:42 Oh, buildhost is finally back. :) Aug 08 11:09:37 Elrond, any progress with HH? Aug 08 11:10:12 Is it common that the neo discharges when it's off? Aug 08 11:10:44 ScaredyCat: pastebin? Aug 08 11:10:56 Dmitry_Platonov - Yeah, I finally found some bugs in my init sequence and now I can see say, if a sat is there or not. ;o) Aug 08 11:11:08 :) Aug 08 11:11:10 Dmitry_Platonov - When I have more time, I'm going to write a scanner. ;-) Aug 08 11:11:29 Well - that does give you +-6000Km position or so, just knowing which ones are up :) Aug 08 11:11:54 Se we just need another 6 orders of magnitude or so. Aug 08 11:12:05 http://pastebin.ca/649734 Aug 08 11:12:05 ;o) Aug 08 11:13:12 Well, I can probably guess the doppler too, as I will do like 10 doppler measurements per sat and I can do expectation value of the "signal vs. doppler"-'curve'. Aug 08 11:13:22 (weighted average) Aug 08 11:14:51 ScaredyCat: no idea - tried it on Debian Etch? ;-) Aug 08 11:15:15 * ScaredyCat slaps rwhitby with a large wet fish Aug 08 11:15:33 ~lart ScaredyCat Aug 08 11:15:33 * apt moos at ScaredyCat Aug 08 11:15:48 * rwhitby always gets apt to do his dirty work for him Aug 08 11:16:06 But don't hold your breath. I've currently some other jobs also. ;) Aug 08 11:16:07 how can i cleanup build/tmp from old ipk? Aug 08 11:16:13 Elrond, please check in your tool to sphyrna when it's done - I'm interested. Aug 08 11:18:20 Dmitry_Platonov - Yeah. I'll do that. I'll start by puttin g i the init-sequence. :) Aug 08 11:25:40 anyone got a phonenumber to the people trying to charge the CC for the neo's? my bank sucks ass and refuse to tell me what information is missing in the transaction and whomever I got contact via the tracker isn't very forthcomming with the problem either. So I got two sides kind of telling me the same thing over and over :) Aug 08 11:26:28 Dmitry_Platonov: Flashing your 2007.2 image now. :-) Aug 08 11:27:03 SpeedEvil - Can't test your hold-button bug on BV3. I have no headet. :-| Aug 08 11:28:27 ~fish ScaredyCat Aug 08 11:28:28 * apt slaps ScaredyCat around with a large trout Aug 08 11:28:33 :D Aug 08 11:31:29 omfg Aug 08 11:31:35 Hm. I read a post to an ML about screen protectors for the Neo, but I can't find it again. Anyone remember the thread / post I'm talking about? Aug 08 11:31:43 gah, I bloody hate creditcards :( Aug 08 11:32:00 never been this hard to get rid of money :D Aug 08 11:32:08 Yeah. Aug 08 11:32:12 daxxar: with regards to what? Aug 08 11:32:25 Get an appropriate sized protector - a little larger than the screen. Aug 08 11:32:36 Open neo case, place on front of LCD. Aug 08 11:32:38 close case. Aug 08 11:33:11 Good thinking. Aug 08 11:33:46 could even be much larger than screen Aug 08 11:33:49 SpeedEvil: Right, but the post talked about finding a appropriately sized protector. :-) Aug 08 11:34:01 I was hoping to find a protector, because I'd rather not scratch this fine display. Aug 08 11:34:05 I think that was my post, and talked about trying to find one Aug 08 11:34:18 have not, so far Aug 08 11:34:20 mjr: Ah, could be. Have you found anything? Aug 08 11:34:24 Mkay. :-) Aug 08 11:34:46 will probably just get some size, and go with SpeedEvil's suggestion Aug 08 11:34:58 I started an alike thread a few months ago. Aug 08 11:35:45 My suggestion at that time was to let FIC add three to the base pack. Thex can't really be sooo expensive when they buy 3000 for 1000 neos. Aug 08 11:35:55 Yup. Aug 08 11:36:14 I don't hinkg dissassembling the neo as a standard operation for clients will get ACKed :) Aug 08 11:36:17 I actually haven't removed the thin plastic sheet that it came with. :-P Aug 08 11:37:05 daxxar, me neither... Aug 08 11:37:12 Was the first thing I did Aug 08 11:37:26 Can't stand those ugly plastic thingies ;) Aug 08 11:38:03 ...and the display is even more briliant without... Aug 08 11:38:08 can stand the thought of scratching the beautiful screen less :] Aug 08 11:38:18 Feels like my granma having plastic covers on her "new" sofa Aug 08 11:38:39 It's only 15 years since I bought it, I don't want to wear out the fabric.. :P Aug 08 11:39:00 Mine has started to get a few air bubbles under it, so I guess that'll wreck havoc on touches. Aug 08 11:39:03 * daxxar removes it Aug 08 11:39:03 Ooh Aug 08 11:39:14 2007.2 has a nice progress-bar for loading. Aug 08 11:39:30 Upload images someone. Pleaaaaaase :( Aug 08 11:40:14 hehe Aug 08 11:40:16 build one Aug 08 11:40:20 you are dev Aug 08 11:40:25 *duck and hide* Aug 08 11:40:34 I'm too busy :( Aug 08 11:40:38 But I want a toy :( Aug 08 11:40:40 heh Aug 08 11:40:43 all these unofficial images Aug 08 11:40:50 can't you wait a couple of days? Aug 08 11:40:53 I can. Aug 08 11:41:01 * mmp can't :) Aug 08 11:41:03 let me flash one and see whether this is ok for previeing Aug 08 11:41:04 Assuming there's gonna be something in couple of days :) Aug 08 11:41:07 mmazur, http://daxxar.slask.no/om/Dmitry_Platonov Aug 08 11:41:33 Any sense of upgrading uboot? Aug 08 11:41:37 *in Aug 08 11:41:40 no Aug 08 11:41:46 vs the default one Aug 08 11:42:04 if your working fine. then no Aug 08 11:42:22 well, there has been an important bugfix a couple of days ago Aug 08 11:42:24 mmazur - Rule 1: Don't touch u-boot. Rule 2: go to 1 Aug 08 11:42:32 so i would recommend updating it if you have a debug board Aug 08 11:42:40 Yeah. I'll upgrade when I'll be near someone with a debug board. Aug 08 11:42:46 mickeyl - Which bugfix? Aug 08 11:42:58 Elrond: hold on, i'll get ya the nubmer Aug 08 11:43:02 Hm Aug 08 11:43:22 is there an officially built u-boot which has the fix included? Aug 08 11:43:33 I'm not going to flash u-boot without that, but I would need the fix Aug 08 11:43:52 It's really shiny, and intuitive. I like 2007.2 Aug 08 11:43:54 mickeyl - bug #419 ? Aug 08 11:44:01 I do not think there are any 2007.2 official images yet. Aug 08 11:44:07 Though the scrollbar was tiny (didn't work here) Aug 08 11:44:13 yes Aug 08 11:44:14 !ombug 419 Aug 08 11:44:16 * * Bug 419, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown Aug 08 11:44:17 * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: dfu download doesn't clean jffs2 partition Aug 08 11:44:18 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=419 Aug 08 11:44:26 mickeyl: oh btw, I'm not 100% certain, but I think some of my openmoko-today crashes may have been exactly because of u-boot problem Aug 08 11:44:35 ya Aug 08 11:44:43 all kinds of things can happen if the jffs2 is corrupt :/ Aug 08 11:44:43 daxxar, there is kinetic scrolling Aug 08 11:44:59 mickeyl hehe Aug 08 11:45:03 daxxar: it's not a scrollbar, it's just an indicator to show where you are in the list Aug 08 11:45:11 daxxar: just press down anywhere and push down or up Aug 08 11:45:25 openmoko: 03njp * r2663 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 08 11:45:25 openmoko: 2007-08-08 Neil J. Patel Aug 08 11:45:25 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_init), Aug 08 11:45:25 openmoko: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed): Aug 08 11:45:25 openmoko: Implement tap-and-hold events for the keys, so you can enter w, + and p. Aug 08 11:45:30 openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: (on_delete_event), (moko_keypad_init): Aug 08 11:45:32 openmoko: Implement tap-and-hold for the delete button, so the holf event will cause Aug 08 11:45:34 Ooh, cool Aug 08 11:45:42 Kinetic scrolling is neat, but not very intuitive? Aug 08 11:45:59 mickeyl - Ahh. I'm waiting for my big to be squashed before considering to update. :) Aug 08 11:46:14 daxxar, it will be soon Aug 08 11:46:14 Are you supposed to double-click the icons to start apps? Aug 08 11:46:45 daxxar, did you calibrate your tochscreen? Aug 08 11:47:23 the kinetic scrolling and launching apps suffers from too much jitter in the ts Aug 08 11:47:25 yet Aug 08 11:47:30 Dmitry_Platonov: Hm, yes, but that was before scrolling. Aug 08 11:47:36 s/scrolling/flashing/ Aug 08 11:47:36 daxxar meant: Dmitry_Platonov: Hm, yes, but that was before flashing. Aug 08 11:48:13 Ooh, it defaults to mrxvt? Aug 08 11:48:30 daxxar: is that working? i added it, but didn't try yet Aug 08 11:48:35 in qemu my touchscreen is badly miscalibrated. setting ssh connection to qemu to run calibration Aug 08 11:48:55 mickeyl: It seems so, yes. Aug 08 11:49:02 daxxar: good. Aug 08 11:49:10 How could I go about building bluez-utils if mokomakefile isn't working? I did bitbake bluez-utils and it seemed to complete, then I did make openmoko-devel-image in the hopes that it'd see bluez-utils completed and carry on, but it tried to build bluez-utils and failed again!!! Aug 08 11:49:43 mukunda haeh? Aug 08 11:50:15 Sorry, did that not make sense? Aug 08 11:50:39 Mukunda,do you have a tmp dir the dir where (moko-)Makefile is Aug 08 11:50:47 Mukunda: information density is too high to parse it, for ordinary people:) Aug 08 11:50:58 Dmitry_Platonov: Hum, I can't shut down. It doesn't respond to the continued pressing of 'POWER', nor can I find any menu for it Aug 08 11:51:02 Mukunda, if so, you env is wrong Aug 08 11:51:11 Hrmm. Aug 08 11:51:18 daxxar, press 9sec... Aug 08 11:51:25 daxxar - ssh into it, "halt" Aug 08 11:51:26 it is building in /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/bluez-util Aug 08 11:51:36 daxxar, do you have ssh to your neo? Aug 08 11:51:40 mdt: No go Aug 08 11:51:58 Dmitry_Platonov: What's the default IP? 192.168.0.202? Aug 08 11:52:10 daxxar, i was wondering that Aug 08 11:52:10 That conflicts with my normal IP range, meh :-/ Aug 08 11:52:21 mdt - I think, the 9sec one can be "stopped" by the kernel somehow. Better docs on the pmu would help. ;) Aug 08 11:52:22 but i just set it to what i wanted instead of trying to figure out what it was Aug 08 11:52:51 Can't do that, onscreen keyboard borked, so can't configure it. :-P Aug 08 11:52:56 daxxar, set a host route.... Aug 08 11:53:05 heh Aug 08 11:53:06 mdt: Yep, doing it now Aug 08 11:53:19 Or use bridging. ;-) Aug 08 11:53:20 daxxar, i had to, too :D Aug 08 11:53:21 mukunda whats the error exactly? Aug 08 11:53:28 please use pastbin Aug 08 11:53:33 ~pastebin Aug 08 11:53:34 methinks pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well Aug 08 11:54:06 woglinde: http://rafb.net/p/JlyXM679.html Aug 08 11:54:53 mukunda urgs Aug 08 11:54:55 Mukunda, still x86 format? Aug 08 11:55:06 the host libusb.so sneaks in Aug 08 11:55:36 I like this is the important line. /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb.so: could not read symbols: File in wrong format Aug 08 11:55:40 Sorry. Aug 08 11:55:40 You got it. Aug 08 11:55:43 mukunda did you edit the files? Aug 08 11:55:48 woglinde, don't think so - it builds for x86.. Aug 08 11:55:54 woglinde: sorry, which files? Aug 08 11:55:55 be inherit natvie? Aug 08 11:56:05 mkunuda the bluez-utils.bb Aug 08 11:56:21 Oh, no. I didn't read on the wiki that had to be done? Aug 08 11:57:25 hm Aug 08 11:57:36 I dont know so much about the mokofile Aug 08 11:57:41 mokomakefile Aug 08 11:57:49 Hang on. Aug 08 11:57:54 Found something in the discussion page. Aug 08 11:58:30 make build-package-libusb; make clean-package-bluez-utils <-- Should apparently fix it, if anyone cares. Aug 08 11:59:03 but /home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb.so -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/home/mukunda/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib is definetly wrong Aug 08 11:59:08 Oh, super cool. Aug 08 11:59:12 try to find where it sneaks in Aug 08 11:59:15 hmm, the images are getting scary big nowadays Aug 08 11:59:20 41484288 Aug 08 11:59:22 * jeddy3 is flashing Dmitry's 2007.2 images now... Aug 08 11:59:25 The wiki uses stupid session codes... my browser shows me as "Psi" ;-) Aug 08 11:59:45 lol Aug 08 11:59:59 theif Aug 08 12:00:04 :P Aug 08 12:00:18 mickeyl, there is qt4 & webkit in newer images Aug 08 12:00:24 and other stuff Aug 08 12:00:26 qt4 no Aug 08 12:00:28 webkit, yes Aug 08 12:00:32 *g* Aug 08 12:00:33 + gstreamer Aug 08 12:00:48 Psi is that in IP from you: 'for user "88.198.62.104"' (just clicked "my watchlist") Aug 08 12:01:10 jeddy3: Let me know how it goes :) Aug 08 12:01:10 thats no my i Aug 08 12:01:13 *ip Aug 08 12:01:22 CM, sure :) Aug 08 12:01:24 very strange. Aug 08 12:01:34 i start with 58.28 Aug 08 12:01:44 gamgee:~% host 88.198.62.104 Aug 08 12:01:44 104.62.198.88.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mahavidya.openmoko.org. Aug 08 12:01:45 tihi. Aug 08 12:01:49 How's one supposed to start the onscreen kb on 2007.2? Aug 08 12:01:57 its the input manager thingy Aug 08 12:02:05 then you get the white box at the top Aug 08 12:02:07 does a `make clobber` delete my config? Aug 08 12:02:24 qt4 is listed as dep of webkit. It inherits qt4x11, but builds without qt4 support Aug 08 12:02:30 Psi: No way to start matchbox-keyboard from GUI? Aug 08 12:03:13 what do you mean by the matchbox-keyboard Aug 08 12:03:25 daxxar: it should be in the openmoko-today application list as input manager Aug 08 12:03:32 Hadaka: Found it Aug 08 12:03:41 Psi: ssh in, DISPLAY=:0 matchbox-keyboard Aug 08 12:03:42 :-) Aug 08 12:03:48 heh Aug 08 12:04:39 bye Aug 08 12:05:34 Well that line seemed to fix it. Aug 08 12:06:00 is there a way to get the font size to a more usable state for the terminal in 2007.2? Aug 08 12:07:27 Psi - You didn't find the magnifying glas in the base pack? ;o) Aug 08 12:07:32 Psi: not exactly easy if you mean the AlphaOne 2007.2 images - the current OM2007.2 does have proper font size Aug 08 12:07:50 Elrond, mag glass? its to BIG Aug 08 12:08:18 (actually, the current one just uses mrxvt and has abandoned gtkterm2) Aug 08 12:08:34 Hadaka, ah, thanks i think im probably on the alpha one Aug 08 12:08:47 * Psi checks Aug 08 12:09:15 Hadaka - Does backspace, etc work in mrxvt? Aug 08 12:09:44 Elrond: sure Aug 08 12:10:06 I would've preferred to have rxvt-unicode there though, but I guess mrxvt is fine for now atleast Aug 08 12:10:41 * mickeyl uploading preview image Aug 08 12:11:00 mickeyl: great scott! is it anything more than a recently built OM2007.2? Aug 08 12:11:29 no, that's more or less it Aug 08 12:11:37 mickeyl - I presume you don't upload .ipks? Only a .jffs2? Aug 08 12:11:45 ya, only an imag Aug 08 12:11:50 working on something else atm. Aug 08 12:12:00 need to complete this basic PM and button handling again Aug 08 12:12:04 uah Aug 08 12:12:10 mrxvt default font much too tiny Aug 08 12:12:13 mickeyl: upload u-boot as well if you can Aug 08 12:12:22 mickeyl: yeah, it just picks fixed Aug 08 12:12:26 darn Aug 08 12:12:28 Hadaka - u-boot is on buildhost. Aug 08 12:12:29 we can fix that Aug 08 12:12:36 Haha, got my Neo-SIM now. Aug 08 12:12:39 Elrond: something built after the latest fixes? Aug 08 12:12:53 It came with a written note from the chick at customer service who arranged for me to get it to another address. Aug 08 12:13:03 s/written/handwritten/ Aug 08 12:13:03 daxxar meant: It came with a handwritten note from the chick at customer service who arranged for me to get it to another address. Aug 08 12:13:07 mickeyl: if you "fix" that, I will have to configure it back down to be small ;) Aug 08 12:13:09 Hadaka - 2632 is there, so yes. Aug 08 12:13:15 Elrond: oh great Aug 08 12:13:24 Hadaka - I presume you have a debug board? Aug 08 12:13:52 Elrond: nope Aug 08 12:14:12 hmmh, r11 or r12 Aug 08 12:14:54 Hadaka - Then don't update. Aug 08 12:15:06 Hadaka - images on buildhost aren't very good tested. Aug 08 12:15:54 Elrond: well yeah, I'd like to have an u-boot image that *someone* has atleast tested Aug 08 12:15:59 Hm, which direction does the SIM-card go? Aug 08 12:16:10 Elrond: IS there any serious issues with the current u-boot in the P1 phones? Aug 08 12:16:25 daxxar, look at the pins , its pretty obvious Aug 08 12:16:27 Ah, wait, just align the contact area on the card with the connectors on the phone, and there's only one direction. Aug 08 12:16:30 :-) Aug 08 12:16:30 Elrond: the reason I'm so keen on updating that I've already used several hours twice debugging a problem which was fixed with nand erase rootfs Aug 08 12:16:32 CM - Yes: It doesn't clean rootfs properly before flashing. Aug 08 12:17:10 Elrond: and if push comes to shove, I can make puppy-dog eyes at mjr (who I'm meeting tomorrow) to let me use his debug board Aug 08 12:17:12 Elrond: Ah.. Ouch. Hmm.. Don't want to update uboot and risk bricking it right away, without any debug board around Aug 08 12:17:27 Elrond, what does that mean, in except? Aug 08 12:17:56 * ScaredyCat slaps rwhitby quite a bit Aug 08 12:18:00 jeddy3 - I means, that old cruft from your previous fs can leak into a newly flashed trootfs. Aug 08 12:18:18 Elrond, hmm ok Aug 08 12:18:25 hmmh, it seems my DPI whine mail is lagging somewhere... perhaps in gmane Aug 08 12:18:46 ScaredyCat: what for this time? Aug 08 12:18:48 CM, 2007.2 images is working just fine btw Aug 08 12:18:59 Hmm, P1 Owners list two people with debug boards in norway, one of which is atleast 6 hours drive from here. Aug 08 12:19:01 jeddy3: Nice, I'll try as soon as I can Aug 08 12:19:02 just because... Aug 08 12:19:11 why do I need QtCore! Aug 08 12:19:26 and 2007.2 is really nice, much better interface Aug 08 12:19:26 jeddy3 - Just do a "nand erase rootfs" in u-boot before flashing. ;-) Aug 08 12:19:28 * rwhitby puts a rule in MokoMakefile to delete all ScaredyCat's files next time he runs make ... Aug 08 12:19:35 Elrond, ah ok Aug 08 12:19:44 jeddy3: howd you build it? Aug 08 12:19:52 rwhitby: Hehe Aug 08 12:19:55 xzcvczx, Dmitry_Platonov's images Aug 08 12:19:58 jeddy3 - See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko Aug 08 12:19:59 # make me-mad Aug 08 12:20:03 ERROR: Too late Aug 08 12:20:16 * ScaredyCat throws things Aug 08 12:20:20 rwhitby: cant you make it do something a bit more interesting..... like make computer-go-to-2000-degrees-centigrade Aug 08 12:20:30 jeddy3: you got a link? Aug 08 12:20:39 Dmitry_Platonov: am i able to grab the images Aug 08 12:20:42 xzcvczx, http://daxxar.slask.no/om/ Aug 08 12:20:45 # make me-care-about-ScaredyCat's inability to use Debian Etch for his compiles ... Aug 08 12:21:06 # make like a tree Aug 08 12:21:20 jeddy3: what kernel do they use? Aug 08 12:21:45 2.6.21-5 Aug 08 12:21:50 so, cmon rwhitby... why do I need qtcore? Aug 08 12:21:55 xzcvczx, everything included 8-) Aug 08 12:21:55 there is a kernel in there too Aug 08 12:21:55 splain that... Aug 08 12:21:57 ScaredyCat: "Why don't you make like a tree, and get the fuck outta here?" Aug 08 12:22:05 howdy Aug 08 12:22:43 ScaredyCat: (A quote from Boondock Saints :) ) Aug 08 12:23:18 http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/images/ Aug 08 12:24:09 * ScaredyCat installs the whole internet Aug 08 12:24:29 * Psi ponders which image to flash Aug 08 12:24:48 flash em all Aug 08 12:25:19 Psi: mickeyl's - you'll be the first to test them probably, but I'm guessing those are your best bet :) Aug 08 12:25:41 40mb mickeyl? Aug 08 12:25:50 put them all to microsd and them boot randomly from one ;-) Aug 08 12:26:05 the new images are 40mb Aug 08 12:26:07 why is the kernel being used with them so "old" Aug 08 12:26:10 didn't someone have a problem doing >30 odd,,, Aug 08 12:26:18 should work fine Aug 08 12:26:31 xzcvczx: because openembedded files still use that kernel Aug 08 12:26:57 Hadaka: ahhh i see, thanks Aug 08 12:27:07 yay, I now have the entire internet on a usb stick. Aug 08 12:27:35 * xzcvczx kicks the crap out of lsof Aug 08 12:30:29 has someone managed a network bluetooth connection via pan? Aug 08 12:31:20 ScaredyCat: you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the MokoMakefile author actually knows something about what it builds and why it builds it ... Aug 08 12:31:26 man that dfu timeout is way to short it;s annoyung Aug 08 12:31:33 mdt - I think, pavel did. Aug 08 12:31:58 rwhitby: naaa... xzcvczx already said you were a bot Aug 08 12:32:04 mdt: yeah Aug 08 12:32:12 me and mjr have as well Aug 08 12:32:31 * xzcvczx knifes ScaredyCat Aug 08 12:32:35 oh dear... Aug 08 12:32:46 poor pussy Aug 08 12:32:52 End of write exceeds partition end Aug 08 12:33:07 ScaredyCat: so the images dont work? Aug 08 12:33:24 ScaredyCat: for the 40M image? and you have one of the P1 phones? Aug 08 12:33:29 yes Aug 08 12:34:00 ScaredyCat: mickeyl 's image? Aug 08 12:34:00 that's odd - I've never had problems with the 40M+ images Aug 08 12:34:21 xzcvczx: yes Aug 08 12:34:26 openmoko: 03njp * r2664 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/ (gtkrc openmoko-dialer): * Set the colours and text-size for the dialer textview. Aug 08 12:34:52 ./lib/liblsof.a: could not read symbols: Archive has no index; run ranlib to add one <---- anyone else get that when building lsof in devel-image Aug 08 12:36:02 errm Aug 08 12:36:55 if i leave now we'll pretend that never happend - ok.. Aug 08 12:37:37 * ScaredyCat offers cheese in return for forgivness from mickeyl Aug 08 12:37:48 ScaredyCat: lol let me guess you flashed it into kernel space? Aug 08 12:38:02 * ScaredyCat whistles innocently Aug 08 12:38:03 mickeyl: Nice speed on openmoko.org, got over 2mb/s downloading the jffs2 image :) Aug 08 12:38:23 CM: your lucky i wasn't even getting 100kB/s Aug 08 12:38:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[P1_Owners]] [[MokoMakefile]] Aug 08 12:38:28 yeah. iirc it sits in Berlin Aug 08 12:38:37 * CM clarifies Megabytes, not bits) Aug 08 12:38:39 I got 1.21jiggawatts Aug 08 12:39:06 well, I did next week. Aug 08 12:39:13 cmon flash already dammit Aug 08 12:39:25 ScaredyCat: so was that the case you tried flashing it into kernel space? Aug 08 12:39:34 Hadaka, did you write a wiki? Aug 08 12:39:55 mdt: nope, since it is already in the wiki Aug 08 12:40:00 no,no... I didn't try that at all... but that's wht my neo decided it would do.... honest Aug 08 12:40:03 mdt: bluetooth support IIRC Aug 08 12:40:29 ScaredyCat: lol i was thinking that would be easy to do Aug 08 12:40:58 I was merely cleaning the kernel space beforehand... Aug 08 12:41:01 ScaredyCat: i am thinking of making a wrapper script which just goes off name or something that you give it to flash and will be like um are you sure you want to do this if it doesnt think its right Aug 08 12:41:22 yeah... Aug 08 12:41:38 and that you dont need to run all the options for all the time Aug 08 12:41:49 my heart kinda stopped when it said something like 'bad magic number' ,,, Aug 08 12:41:55 like ./dfu-util rootfs blah.jffs2 Aug 08 12:41:56 Hadaka, just found it Aug 08 12:41:57 then i looked at the command Aug 08 12:42:07 Hadaka, thanks... Aug 08 12:42:21 yeah... names Aug 08 12:42:26 ScaredyCat: the magic number is 42 Aug 08 12:42:48 done! Aug 08 12:42:53 tada! Aug 08 12:42:58 * ScaredyCat boots Aug 08 12:43:21 tis not timeing out now tho Aug 08 12:43:26 ScaredyCat: and make it like if you go ./dfu-util kernel blah.jffs2 it will be like are you sure you want to flash this 40mb file as the kernel Aug 08 12:43:39 wow fancy its got graphical boot Aug 08 12:43:49 well, more like 'hey dimwit, that wont fit' Aug 08 12:44:04 ScaredyCat: lol gotta be nice to people Aug 08 12:44:06 oooh silent Aug 08 12:44:19 no dancing penguin :( Aug 08 12:44:24 pity its not like if you tap the screen it makes it loud Aug 08 12:44:29 s/loud/verbose Aug 08 12:44:36 what? Aug 08 12:44:38 hh Aug 08 12:44:40 aa Aug 08 12:44:45 sound ? Aug 08 12:44:46 ??? Aug 08 12:44:49 :( Aug 08 12:45:21 hmmm it unfourtunately isnt very accurate progress bar on first boot Aug 08 12:45:21 this has turned into an expensive way to play map Aug 08 12:45:35 to play map? Aug 08 12:45:45 the game - map Aug 08 12:45:53 slow boot... Aug 08 12:46:10 press + then scroll down Aug 08 12:46:28 ScaredyCat: huh Aug 08 12:46:29 find map Aug 08 12:46:30 has anyone flattened their laser pointer batteries yet? Aug 08 12:46:31 openmoko: 03mickey * r2665 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/ (buttonactions.c neod-main.c): neod: read from all input devices, remove reading environment variable Aug 08 12:46:47 Psi: lol i have no cat to annoy with it so i havent used it much\ Aug 08 12:46:57 ScaredyCat: is yours booted yet? Aug 08 12:47:02 ya Aug 08 12:47:15 I'm playing map again Aug 08 12:47:19 ScaredyCat: hmmmm mine might have fooked oop Aug 08 12:47:27 mine looked bad Aug 08 12:47:40 but it takes a while to do the first screen properly Aug 08 12:47:43 mickeyl: is there anyway to verbose it Aug 08 12:48:18 ? Aug 08 12:48:24 you want to see boot messages again? Aug 08 12:48:25 the boot Aug 08 12:48:27 ipkg remove psplash Aug 08 12:48:36 lol Aug 08 12:48:40 might add changing that via CMDLINE later Aug 08 12:48:40 mickeyl: lol no i think its crashed on the boot Aug 08 12:48:45 xzcvczx, there is verbose output on serial console, I guess Aug 08 12:49:03 mickeyl: maybe can you make it that if you hit the aux button during boot it changes to verbose Aug 08 12:49:30 xzcvczx: good idea. feel free to add that to bugzilla as feature wish Aug 08 12:49:38 hehe im watching back to the future 1 on the neo Aug 08 12:49:45 well.. a clip from it Aug 08 12:51:41 mickey|DIY: woo! does this mean you're working on getting that V12 into the Neo case? Aug 08 12:53:01 hahaha, not quite. bought myself some new metabo drill hammers which i want to try out Aug 08 12:53:59 drill needed to make some holes in case for exhaust ;) Aug 08 12:54:10 there's a bit of a problem Aug 08 12:54:17 where's the keyboard Aug 08 12:54:59 ScaredyCat: at least yours booted..... mine didnt even start ssh Aug 08 12:56:13 oooo animated outgoing call... Aug 08 12:56:19 shme it doesnt work Aug 08 12:57:56 xzcvczx: I don't want to rub it in...I've booted twice Aug 08 13:00:03 Is gsmd going to be the way applications interact with gsm, or is there going to be another layer? Aug 08 13:00:19 daxxar: libgsmd??? Aug 08 13:00:35 * xzcvczx bbs hopefully boot will work this time Aug 08 13:01:10 whee - since it's going to take a bit for this phone to actually be usable as a phone + gprs Aug 08 13:01:33 I decided to configure it to use the internet by using gprs over bluetooth from my other phone Aug 08 13:01:36 works great! Aug 08 13:03:35 2nd time unlucky as well Aug 08 13:03:39 might have to do a reflash Aug 08 13:03:53 Hadaka :O Aug 08 13:03:55 ScaredyCat: can you paste in md5 of uImage/jffs2 Aug 08 13:04:07 sure Aug 08 13:04:39 funny how nowadays you don't need to copy&paste anymore, just paste :) Aug 08 13:04:46 e573826b72867f17e34a2bcb01927ac5 uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin Aug 08 13:05:02 7285ae6a88f934b6c387f2ddc8bbe50d OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070808-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 08 13:05:28 I found the keyboard! Aug 08 13:05:43 you just have to start it manually.. Aug 08 13:06:15 can someone tell me what the last email to the community list was? I think my mailserver is borked Aug 08 13:06:23 Hadaka, well that's one way to get GPRS and voice simultaneously :] Aug 08 13:06:38 mjr: true ;) Aug 08 13:07:23 how do you connect to the bootloader? Aug 08 13:07:31 I wonder how to get this feedreader to fetch something Aug 08 13:07:41 Should I install picocom or minicom, any difference? Aug 08 13:08:05 did you reflash yet xzcvczx? Aug 08 13:08:24 the changes in version of rootfs images on chooseopen.com, is the any documentation of the changes between version or is a case of suck it and see? Aug 08 13:08:26 or perhaps that's not implemented yet... Aug 08 13:09:17 zedstar: You could try http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/images/ Aug 08 13:09:39 ScaredyCat: doing so now Aug 08 13:09:57 so, somebody got mickeyl images working? no problems? Aug 08 13:10:15 yes.. me Aug 08 13:10:31 thanx CM not tried those out yet Aug 08 13:10:37 ok, so you can have more than one keyboard onscreen at the same time. Aug 08 13:10:38 lol Aug 08 13:10:57 ScaredyCat: yeah ;) kill the other mbinputmgr processes if you started many by accident ;) Aug 08 13:11:05 zedstar: Me neither ;) Aug 08 13:11:18 CM u flash first then i flash mine ;) Aug 08 13:11:48 zedstar: I will, as soon as I can. Still at work, and I have a visitor when I get home Aug 08 13:12:02 I wonder what prevent switching to other tasks from today Aug 08 13:12:10 no docs tho about the differences so i guess just have to try Aug 08 13:13:22 ScaredyCat: you used kernel from mickey|DIY's site? Aug 08 13:13:25 hello Aug 08 13:13:27 yes Aug 08 13:13:35 boot? Aug 08 13:13:39 yes Aug 08 13:13:46 x si ok? Aug 08 13:14:06 * xzcvczx crosses his fingers Aug 08 13:14:37 I guess the list server is broken, right? Aug 08 13:14:56 lists seem a bit iffy right now - and gmane mirrors of them seem lagging as well Aug 08 13:15:33 I haven't tried that. I compile that images in the night: boot ok (with splash screen) but on X I have only some icons of the status bar. no menu, no application, black background ecc Aug 08 13:15:34 I'm missing fonts, on mickeyl's images Aug 08 13:15:55 Dmitry_Platonov: how can i see the output thats on the serial console Aug 08 13:16:31 ScaredyCat: did you clear you kernel flash before you installed if so how? Aug 08 13:16:57 I tried to install the root filesystem on it... remember Aug 08 13:17:02 freelock: have you had large images installed before? did you erase rootfs before flashing? Aug 08 13:17:24 only the rootfs flash need sometimes to be erased before flashing a new image. Kernel flash no. Aug 08 13:17:24 I didn't erase the rootfs, no Aug 08 13:17:45 xzcvczx, not sure. I saw it in qemu. Do you have dev board? Aug 08 13:17:50 freelock: might want to try that, just in case Aug 08 13:17:57 Not really sure how big the biggest image I've flashed is... nothing more than a stock image, or regular build from mokomakefile... Aug 08 13:18:05 I'll try that... Aug 08 13:19:37 Tyrae1: yeah i thought that was the case but this damn thing just wont boot Aug 08 13:19:57 and its crashing well not even holding power button works i have to fully take out the battery Aug 08 13:20:14 it doens;t work for me either xzcvczx Aug 08 13:20:27 ScaredyCat: what doesnt work for you either? Aug 08 13:20:29 you power it off by removing hte battery.. Aug 08 13:20:57 to shut down the new images, start keyboard, start terminal, type halt Aug 08 13:21:29 Hadaka: oh so holding power button for 10ish seconds doesnt work any more? Aug 08 13:22:14 xzcvczx: nope Aug 08 13:22:40 no xzcvczx Aug 08 13:22:47 oh ok Aug 08 13:22:55 xzcvczx: power stuff is being worked on by the devs now, so I guess that should start working again soonish Aug 08 13:23:02 ah ok Aug 08 13:23:18 0m2007.2 is pretty n all, but om2007.1 is more functional Aug 08 13:23:31 * ScaredyCat reflashes om2007.1 Aug 08 13:24:04 ScaredyCat: you should probably clear the nand first Aug 08 13:24:05 ScaredyCat: what's more functional in OM2007.1? except the power button ofcourse Aug 08 13:24:23 gsm, gps Aug 08 13:24:55 Hadaka: nand erase rootfs sufficient? Aug 08 13:25:04 ScaredyCat: you have P0? or how is GPS working? Aug 08 13:25:06 freelock: yes Aug 08 13:25:12 Thanks Aug 08 13:25:12 P1 Aug 08 13:25:24 ScaredyCat: so where did you get gllin binary? :) Aug 08 13:25:37 I have no recollection of that at this time Aug 08 13:25:44 okay Aug 08 13:26:01 I don't hve a gllin Aug 08 13:26:12 ScaredyCat: so how can GPS work? Aug 08 13:26:13 is there any other way to log into the moko instead of ssh Aug 08 13:26:41 gllin won't work on OM2007.2, will it? Aug 08 13:26:45 (wrong ABI) Aug 08 13:26:49 rwhitby: nope Aug 08 13:27:23 * rwhitby flashes OM2007.1 on his Bv4 and OM2007.2 on his Bv3 ... Aug 08 13:27:41 * ScaredyCat stabs rwhitby with a kipper Aug 08 13:27:44 Yup. Aug 08 13:27:52 * mmazur slaps with a trout Aug 08 13:28:07 * rwhitby , bleeding, goes to bed. Aug 08 13:28:12 :) Aug 08 13:28:21 * ScaredyCat takes all rwhitby's neo's Aug 08 13:28:36 * mmazur stabs ScaredyCat Aug 08 13:28:38 ah crappin beephole Aug 08 13:28:47 rwhitby: Aug 08 13:28:52 before you go Aug 08 13:29:04 yes ... Aug 08 13:30:01 http://pastebin.ca/649858 Aug 08 13:30:05 can i do anything useful with port 111? Aug 08 13:30:18 oooh - progress bar on boot with OM2007.2 latest Aug 08 13:30:43 rwhitby: yeah but no way to see why its stuffed up Aug 08 13:31:45 gotta love that tiny tiny house icon Aug 08 13:32:53 ARGH Aug 08 13:33:13 rwhitby, feels like home ?-) Aug 08 13:33:20 FIC don't use the full security protocol used by mastercard so they can't bill me Aug 08 13:33:36 what is that ? Aug 08 13:33:58 * xkr47 is using mastercard and the phones are already on their way to europe.. Aug 08 13:33:59 3d auth ? Aug 08 13:33:59 rwhitby: did it work for you Aug 08 13:34:13 yep Aug 08 13:34:26 mmmm Aug 08 13:34:43 crap Aug 08 13:34:46 xkr47: the banks choose what level of security they require, some banks don't require the full specs, mine aparently does, and they're wankers. just had a long frustrating chat with some suit there Aug 08 13:35:01 :/ Aug 08 13:35:26 Fatal, so what would FIC have needed to do for it to work out.. ? verify your identity even further ?-P Aug 08 13:35:33 if i changed my rootfs on the neo, can i read the rootfs out of the neo with dfu-util to flash it later? Aug 08 13:35:35 or check with the bank when ordering.. Aug 08 13:36:31 root@fic-gta01:~$ ls Aug 08 13:36:31 gdb Aug 08 13:36:31 root@fic-gta01:~$ ./gdb Aug 08 13:36:31 sh: ./gdb: not found Aug 08 13:36:31 it's part of the transfer protocols and whatnot, the missing informationfields for the transfer (which i FINALLY managed my bank to tell me) are dataelement042 subelement42 of security level indicator Aug 08 13:36:37 I FUCKING HATE MY BANK Aug 08 13:36:39 *gnn* Aug 08 13:37:01 ScaredyCat: yeah i got same when i tried to install nano Aug 08 13:37:01 :O Aug 08 13:37:17 symlink? Aug 08 13:37:20 "give them my money" "- no they don't use the full protocol" "its my money, give it to them" "- no we can't do that" "so you're telling me the bank decides what I can use my money for?" Aug 08 13:37:22 ScaredyCat, do a `file gdb` Aug 08 13:37:35 then he started stuttering Aug 08 13:37:37 ScaredyCat, is it a shell-script with widows newlines? ;) Aug 08 13:37:41 flaming retards :( Aug 08 13:37:46 :O Aug 08 13:37:50 root@fic-gta01:~$ file ./gdb Aug 08 13:37:50 sh: file: not found Aug 08 13:37:57 watch it be a symlink to .obj/gdb because libtool will relink at install Aug 08 13:38:01 ls -l ./gdb Aug 08 13:38:05 ScaredyCat, on the host... Aug 08 13:38:25 Fatal, have you been in touch with FIC ? Aug 08 13:38:28 ScaredyCat, may also be a x86 executable Aug 08 13:38:33 it's not Aug 08 13:38:48 i'm pretty sure you'd get a different error if it was Aug 08 13:38:50 ScaredyCat, but windows-linefeeds in shell scripts are also doing so Aug 08 13:38:56 I built it and put it on my sd .. Aug 08 13:39:04 it works fine on om2007.1 Aug 08 13:39:09 xkr47: yes, they are almost as bad, "we tried, didn't go through, no you are not allowed to call us, we need the info in the tracker" ... Aug 08 13:39:14 I don;t use windows Aug 08 13:39:20 damnit this is a depressing and frustrating day Aug 08 13:39:24 ScaredyCat, good guy Aug 08 13:39:43 * xkr47 gives Fatal a decent meal Aug 08 13:39:50 ScaredyCat, is your sd vfat? Aug 08 13:40:03 yes... Aug 08 13:40:09 ScaredyCat, don't know if that is something... Aug 08 13:40:22 but I've copied to root partiton and chmod+x 'd it too Aug 08 13:40:23 dammit the only port i have open on my moko is 111 Aug 08 13:40:42 Fatal, any possibility to get any progress on this? :P Aug 08 13:40:57 ScaredyCat, out of ideas Aug 08 13:41:04 yeah me too :( Aug 08 13:41:19 no idea, took me 2 whole days to get the bank to give me the information what was missing, and FIC probably left the office now Aug 08 13:41:25 ScaredyCat, copy to host and do a `file ...` Aug 08 13:41:36 locate gdb Aug 08 13:41:39 lol Aug 08 13:42:12 Fatal, I really hope it works out for you! Aug 08 13:42:35 ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, stripped Aug 08 13:42:43 ScaredyCat: you just used the commands on Flashing the 1973 to flash it i assume? Aug 08 13:43:08 ScaredyCat, maye it does not find the initial shared lib Aug 08 13:43:16 ./dfu-util -a 5 -R -D OpenMo.... Aug 08 13:43:20 and Aug 08 13:43:30 ./dfu-util -a 3 -R -D uImage.. Aug 08 13:43:50 yeah.. rather a strange error though mdt Aug 08 13:46:18 mdt: http://pastebin.ca/649870 Aug 08 13:46:19 ScaredyCat: yeah no matter what i tried with nano i got the same Aug 08 13:48:40 did the /lib/ld..so change? Aug 08 14:02:55 xzcvczx: ln -s ld-linux.so.3 ld-linux.so.2 Aug 08 14:03:14 ScaredyCat: ahhh i see Aug 08 14:05:07 but that's just the start :( Aug 08 14:09:14 openmoko: 03thomas * r2666 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer: * Fix dialer display font sizes Aug 08 14:09:37 sweet erasing the flash fixed all Aug 08 14:14:44 so my little 'accident' actually helped me? Aug 08 14:18:21 ScaredyCat: i dunno Aug 08 14:18:30 ScaredyCat: but potentially Aug 08 14:28:37 wow nice..... Aug 08 14:31:53 oops Aug 08 14:32:20 has anyone else tried getting 1973 working with windows? Aug 08 14:35:49 s Aug 08 14:36:21 s/s// ;) Aug 08 14:39:05 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Risto]] Aug 08 14:50:26 hm, any mailinglist problems with gmail again? Aug 08 14:58:44 when doing ssh -l root -X -v phone, can i also specify the X displaly size and how it should be viewed? xrandr -o 1 makes it landscape view on the phone, but, on the GUI that is viewed through ssh Aug 08 14:59:34 uh Aug 08 14:59:35 Dear Jimmy, Aug 08 14:59:35 Aug 08 14:59:35 Your credit card has been rejected by our epayment system. The credit Aug 08 14:59:35 card was denied. Please send your new credit card information with Aug 08 14:59:35 encrypted zip file. Don't send in plain text regarding to security issue. Aug 08 14:59:37 Aug 08 14:59:38 Thanks in advance. Aug 08 14:59:47 encrypted zip? Aug 08 14:59:58 :) Aug 08 15:00:45 Hmm. Aug 08 15:01:02 I know zip is insecure if you have knowledge of the 13 first bytes of the file. Aug 08 15:01:30 yeah, i don't know what he's talking about. Aug 08 15:01:45 gpg encrypted zipfile? Aug 08 15:01:47 I suppose it is secure against automated spammers. Aug 08 15:01:56 zip supports encryption. Aug 08 15:02:50 LarstiQ, then he'd have to have the public key as well Aug 08 15:04:02 * xzcvczx thinks it sounds like a phishing scam Aug 08 15:04:25 xzcvczx, headers are coming from orders@openmoko.com Aug 08 15:04:49 how can i make the landscape (xrandr -o 1) view on the phone, appear on the desktop in landscape mode when i do (ssh -l root -X -v phone) Aug 08 15:05:09 mintee: a public key for orders@openmoko.com doesn't sound that difficult, and imho the intended audience should be able to cope with that Aug 08 15:05:10 mbuf: export DISPLAY=:0.0 Aug 08 15:06:38 mickey|DIY, that is already set on the desktop before i ssh into it; Aug 08 15:06:43 LarstiQ, hate to sound like a weetard, but what can i use to make a gpg zip file Aug 08 15:07:36 mintee: nevermind that, if the other end is not set up for it (they're not seemingly), it won't work. So it's a hypotheical better solution right now Aug 08 15:07:40 mbuf: ah. i guess it's not possible then. the X server does the rotation. Aug 08 15:07:50 mickey|DIY, i see Aug 08 15:07:55 mbuf: you would need Xvnc or something like that then Aug 08 15:09:24 mickey|DIY, when you want to do presentations, and you want to show the phone GUI to the projector, something like this will help; Aug 08 15:11:25 meh... whatever. I'll send it. If I notice anything phishy about it card that I'll dispute and cancel it. Aug 08 15:11:28 mickey|DIY, lol, simply resizing the window on the desktop works; thanks Aug 08 15:11:32 how can bitbake know that it has to use the task-openmoko.bb when I do a bitbake openmoko-devel-image? Aug 08 15:11:40 heh, fair enough Aug 08 15:11:53 thomasg__: read openmoko-image.bb Aug 08 15:11:58 mintee: i am just saying it sounds like a phishing scam based on how it is written althought i very much doubt it is Aug 08 15:13:34 mickey|DIY: i assume that ipkg upgrade was not the best idea with your rootfs? Aug 08 15:13:37 xzcvczx, no i agree, that's why i went back thru the headers. It seems legit, unless they have relaying on their mail server, but that's very doubtful. Like I said, I'll keep an eye out on the card Aug 08 15:14:27 xzcvczx: actually i have no idea which feed it is tuned to. but no, there are no upgraded packages and there is no released feed compatible with my image. Aug 08 15:14:29 heh, if you gave them the correct info in the first place, the showstopper is probably your bank, I'm going through that process now, my bank refuse to give FIC any money :/ Aug 08 15:14:44 mintee: ^ Aug 08 15:14:46 mickey|DIY: oops hmmmmm will have to go reflash then :S Aug 08 15:15:12 Fatal: threaten to sue them for withholding your money :P Aug 08 15:15:53 Fatal, nah, i told william lai that I lost my wallet in coney island a few weeks ago and canceled all my cards. Aug 08 15:16:00 so i had to get a new one Aug 08 15:16:23 i pretty much new this was going to happen even though my CC company promised the transaction would go thru Aug 08 15:16:26 *sigh* Aug 08 15:16:36 xzcvczx: heh, its for my protection they require that all CC transactions are using the complete protocol with the whole security level whatnot, shame that whatever FIC use don't follow the complete specs :/ Aug 08 15:16:52 xzcvczx: nothing stopping me from switching banks, but that'll take another week :/ Aug 08 15:17:55 lol its good when you have a lot of business with the bank.... as soon as you threaten to switch banks they will offer you half the money in the safe to stay :P Aug 08 15:18:46 sadly my wealth isn't more than a politicians monthly salary, so have no leverage Aug 08 15:19:08 Fatal: actually you are more popular if you owe them money Aug 08 15:19:36 * xzcvczx looks sadly at his mortgage Aug 08 15:19:42 then they could help me out and let FIC have some of my money then Aug 08 15:19:43 :D Aug 08 15:23:00 is anyone able to edit the wiki? i try to login, it logs me in, when i edit, it asks me to login again! Aug 08 15:23:52 mbuf: cookies Aug 08 15:24:10 cookies are oxygen to mediawiki... Aug 08 15:24:54 ben_goodger, i see Aug 08 15:25:27 and rm -rf / is the carbon monoxide Aug 08 15:27:17 ben_goodger, i have them enabled Aug 08 15:27:27 * ben_goodger shrugs Aug 08 15:27:27 sorry Aug 08 15:28:23 ahh ok, need to check the box Aug 08 15:34:09 how can I see that my neo actually charges? Aug 08 15:35:11 counter? Aug 08 15:35:12 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1796;252) Aug 08 15:36:31 simon__: well its connected through USB Aug 08 15:36:38 rschuster: find / | grep batt Aug 08 15:36:58 and then: cat various files there Aug 08 15:38:08 you can also look at /proc/bus/usb/devices in PC to verify that its allowed to use 500mA Aug 08 15:38:09 aloril: well. the problem is I just got the phone and it does not power on. I read about the deep discharge thing where I have to wait 12hours. But I want to know whether it really does this Aug 08 15:38:42 ah, without some meter you can't know :-( Aug 08 15:39:00 you could meter batter voltage periodically too though Aug 08 15:39:23 PC is going to offer it only 100mA in this stage Aug 08 15:39:26 The safest way to make sure it's charging from my investigations. Aug 08 15:39:38 Remove battery for 30s. Aug 08 15:39:51 put back battery, plug into USB Aug 08 15:40:01 this should ensure that nothing is on that shouldn't be. Aug 08 15:40:21 And all the power will go into charging the battery. It will be under 100mA though. Aug 08 15:42:07 ok Aug 08 15:43:31 4h should be enough to turn it on and then continue charging with 500mA Aug 08 15:43:38 maybe even 0.5h in some cases? Aug 08 15:44:11 since the neo has no charger and I dont want to have my computer on for 12 hours. will an externally powered hub work that is not connected to a USB host work as well? Aug 08 15:44:53 SpeedEvil: Some of my charge wierdness the other day was due to a bad cable - prevented enumeration. Aug 08 15:46:01 rchuster: I don't know, it's strange. I tried to charge it with my RAZR wall charger and I don't think it worked. Aug 08 15:46:31 I haven't found the USB chargers to work yet either. Aug 08 15:46:42 No? Aug 08 15:46:43 except maybe 40ma Aug 08 15:46:44 Hmm. Aug 08 15:46:56 it Aug 08 15:47:00 rschuster: yes Aug 08 15:47:24 it is supposed to detect a 48k ohm DC impedence to go into charge Aug 08 15:47:51 rschuster: to get external USB charger to charge at 500mA you need to add entry to u-boot menu (see [[Bootloader]] page at wiki) Aug 08 15:48:34 and if you remove that blacklight part, then you can even boot it after setting fast charge and use it and it will charge it fully Aug 08 15:48:46 at least with my dumb USB charger Aug 08 15:49:19 you can't get into uboot with a dead battery? Aug 08 15:49:27 the make-buildpackage-myhellworld will only call do_compile() ? Aug 08 15:49:31 (Convertec, designed for GPS mapping stuff) Aug 08 15:49:49 (TomTom, Garmin, etc..) Aug 08 15:49:52 *make build-package-myhelloworld Aug 08 15:51:06 Writchie: yeah, you can't get to u-boot with dead battery: you need to wait enough time for enough charge Aug 08 15:51:30 see what SpeedEvil said earlier Aug 08 15:52:18 I had two devices running overnight - both connected to same USB charger Aug 08 15:52:38 one seems to have crashed. It now has a dead battery drawing 490ma Aug 08 15:52:48 aloril: so it looks like we just need to get into the u-boot command-prompt and type "neo1973 charger autofast" Aug 08 15:52:52 no really dead, because it booted. Aug 08 15:53:20 or "neo1973 charger fast" Aug 08 15:53:21 the other unit which didn't crashed is now drawing 360ma, Aug 08 15:55:06 also, all this stuff about meeting USB specs is bs. Once they enumerate, they will draw whatever they can - despite USB resets Aug 08 15:57:03 oooh, there's lots of cool stuf to do from the u-boot command-prompt. can't wait to clock up to 266 Mhz Aug 08 16:01:53 shouldn't the topic be set "Neo1973 - sold out!" ;-) Aug 08 16:02:12 cayco: there aren't sold out Aug 08 16:02:25 cayco: its just 'delayed' ;-) Aug 08 16:02:26 cayco: http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000230.html Aug 08 16:02:37 re Aug 08 16:02:55 yeah i know, but technically it's sold out now :) Aug 08 16:02:58 if you read order page you see that you can order Aug 08 16:03:20 well, technically it was sold out about 2 days after it became available ;-) Aug 08 16:03:33 nevermind, it just struck me as i entered here ;) Aug 08 16:04:17 has any of you tried 'inertial' application list browsing in 2007.2? it's great! Aug 08 16:04:52 thanks all. the phone has booted! Aug 08 16:08:17 cayco: no what is intertial? Aug 08 16:09:21 inertia rather Aug 08 16:10:35 xzcvczx: don't tll me you havent seen it? Aug 08 16:18:23 when you follow Application Development Crash Course ($OMDIR/local/packages) from the wiki, where do the .ipk packages get finally stored? Aug 08 16:18:44 mine is arriving tomorrow :) Aug 08 16:19:16 I believe it should be $OMDIR/build/tmp/deploy/arm4t/ipk/ Aug 08 16:19:33 or maybe switch the arm4t/ipk, this is from memory Aug 08 16:20:48 mrface, ok got, had to clean it to rebuild it Aug 08 16:21:12 good Aug 08 16:22:29 mrface, ipkg install/remove optinos are? Aug 08 16:22:54 that I don't know, all I've done is install/remove Aug 08 16:23:30 mrface, cool, install works, thanks Aug 08 16:23:52 mbuf: no problem Aug 08 16:24:20 mbuf: does your application have a menu? Aug 08 16:26:46 mrface, nope, why? Aug 08 16:27:00 mrface, just trying hello world Aug 08 16:27:00 does anyone else have problems using menus on their apps on the Neo? Whenever I try to open the menu in my app, it crashes Aug 08 16:27:30 mrface, did you use existing demo code, or wrote your own? Aug 08 16:27:56 mbuf: I modified existing code from the finger demo Aug 08 16:28:03 hello Aug 08 16:28:10 mbuf: it just uses GtkMen/MenuItem Aug 08 16:28:16 world? Aug 08 16:28:24 mrface, i see Aug 08 16:28:24 haha Aug 08 16:28:47 mbuf: It doesn't look like libmokoui has it's own menu objects Aug 08 16:29:02 pH5: hello Aug 08 16:29:10 hej noon Aug 08 16:29:21 pH5: i have some stuff for you Aug 08 16:29:41 pH5: and some questions to the arm assembler Aug 08 16:29:46 mrface, have you built an .ipk? i can test it on my Neo and let you know? Aug 08 16:30:31 pH5: do you come to the other #? Aug 08 16:30:31 mbuf: yes.. I can just give you the bitbake recipe and you can build it. maybe something is wrong with my build process Aug 08 16:30:59 * mrface trys to remember what revision actually worked... Aug 08 16:32:27 mrface, i haven't updated moko build for more than a week; builds get distrupted quite often Aug 08 16:33:01 mbuf: so you would rather I send an .ipk? Aug 08 16:33:27 mbuf: I am not acquainted with the dcc thing, can you tell me how? Aug 08 16:33:56 mrface, its easier to do ipk install .ipk and remove .ipk; or if it is a build issue, i can try with my old build and rule out the build problem Aug 08 16:34:01 mrface, e-mail me Aug 08 16:34:13 ok Aug 08 16:34:55 well, if I can scp my .ipk from home... it's really slow because I'm doing a big upload at home Aug 08 16:37:46 dammit, the connection timed out. trying again Aug 08 16:38:25 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Neo1973_Robustness]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 08 16:39:22 mbuf: may have to wait 'til the afternoon after the upload is complete Aug 08 16:39:39 mbuf: well, my afternoon Aug 08 16:39:45 * mrface is in oregon Aug 08 16:40:04 mrface, ok Aug 08 16:41:23 hi Aug 08 16:41:58 mbuf: thanks for the help, this issue has been plaguing me for days. revision 23 would at least open the dialog, but now with revision 27 it segfaults before getting that far. it runs fine when compiled for i686, but has crashiness all over the place when compiled with bitbake. are there things i need to change in the code to make it work on the arm processor? Aug 08 16:43:29 mrface, np; let me see; there were lot of changes to the build; and it kept breaking things; so once i got a build, i stopped updating it Aug 08 16:45:26 hi there. Aug 08 16:46:25 did someone break the openmoko svn server? Aug 08 16:46:29 svn: REPORT request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default' Aug 08 16:46:29 svn: Can't find a temporary directory Aug 08 16:47:13 hey guys... having some trouble with my spiffy new GTA01 Aug 08 16:47:23 when i start cu, it hangs at "Connected" Aug 08 16:47:37 tried the stty -F /dev/ttySAC0 crtscts magic, no luck Aug 08 16:47:39 kemp|plex, send it to me ;) Aug 08 16:47:53 oh Aug 08 16:47:54 wait Aug 08 16:47:55 haha Aug 08 16:47:58 Hey, where do a I file a ticket on the store? People were mentioning this on the list bit didn't actually say where to find it. Aug 08 16:48:00 it is working :) the wiki is just misleading Aug 08 16:48:10 echo is off and it doesn't print "AT Command parse ready" Aug 08 16:48:16 but when i typed AT it came back :) Aug 08 16:48:20 ;) Aug 08 16:48:21 orospakr: Ticket? Store? Aug 08 16:48:44 hello Aug 08 16:49:01 ATE1 kemp|plex Aug 08 16:49:12 ScaredyCat: yeah thanks Aug 08 16:49:31 abraxa_: hm, maybe I read it wrong... Aug 08 16:49:59 i like you phone and want to ask you if you want to implement wengophone to the neo? Aug 08 16:49:59 thomasgruebler: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 08 16:50:38 thomasgruebler: I doubt anyone is working on that - the focus of the dev team lies on OpenMoko obviously :) Aug 08 16:50:42 that probably isn't in FAQ ;-) Aug 08 16:51:00 i already searched for voip in the wiki ; Aug 08 16:51:01 ;) Aug 08 16:51:35 and is it possible to add skype. to make it possible to install it later (because its not opensource). i think we only need qt4 Aug 08 16:52:03 it's not Aug 08 16:52:26 well, conceivably it could be possible to use Nokia's sellout binary Aug 08 16:52:34 no.. it's illegal to use skype... Aug 08 16:52:57 dunno which ABI Nokia uses in their N800 though Aug 08 16:52:58 mainly cos it's a sack of s^*t Aug 08 16:53:07 but they have an ARM binary at least Aug 08 16:53:09 ScaredyCat, *nod* Aug 08 16:53:10 any guide on how to get gps drivers in phase1? Aug 08 16:54:04 yes i know that because i use debian and it would be illegal to add the non-free sources to the distry for standart. you can add it self then debian has no problems. (sry for my bad english) Aug 08 16:55:16 but it would be possible (i think) to add qt4. (i hope we have enough disk space) Aug 08 16:55:31 has anyone tried to build lately? Aug 08 16:56:02 sure you can add qt, but I hope you remember this isn't an x86 box Aug 08 16:56:13 thomasgruebler, u will run out of mem.... Aug 08 16:56:23 worried now though that rogers is rejecting me... has anyone else got it working on Rogers in Canada? Aug 08 16:56:24 ok Aug 08 16:56:58 thomasgruebler, and there a open standard to do voip Aug 08 16:57:19 yes, just get with the SIP program. Or even Jingle or whatever. Aug 08 16:57:31 i know. but many friends have skype. and do you want to add umts or hsdpa? because wlan hotspots are very rare in austria Aug 08 16:57:33 kemp|plex:do you have a pin on the sim ? Aug 08 16:57:41 pin enabled Aug 08 16:57:53 ScaredyCat: not to my knowledge... I've never had to enter one on my other phone Aug 08 16:58:17 you did an AT+CFUN=1 then AT+COPS Aug 08 16:58:18 ? Aug 08 16:58:33 thomasgruebler, many want to add them. And they will probably come. In much later models. Aug 08 16:58:43 how much later? Aug 08 16:58:53 ScaredyCat: yep... when i try to dial i get "NO CARRIER" and then after a long time I got an unsolicited "+CREG: 3" Aug 08 16:59:17 what are you using to dial? ATD or ATDT ? Aug 08 16:59:31 ATD Aug 08 16:59:47 k... might be worth resetting with an ATZ Aug 08 16:59:49 i want to buy this phone. i need a new one because the connector, headset is broken and it shut's down when i write sms. :D but i can wait a bit Aug 08 16:59:54 thomasgruebler, nobody but the core team has any idea. Dunno if they have much either. Aug 08 16:59:57 AT+COPS Aug 08 16:59:57 +CREG: 1,"1B6C","8AAA" Aug 08 17:00:01 +CTZV: 105 Aug 08 17:00:15 ATD5198803416 Aug 08 17:00:15 %CPI: 1,8,0,0,,,,,,,0 Aug 08 17:00:15 NO CARRIER Aug 08 17:00:15 AT+CREG=2 Aug 08 17:00:28 thomasgruebler, "not within a year" would be a very very safe bet. In fact, wanna take it? :] Aug 08 17:00:30 i think i know how i can help you. i search for a free umts module or so. Aug 08 17:00:39 if you do an AT+COPS? (include the ? ) Aug 08 17:00:50 +COPS: 0,0,"Rogers Wireless Aug 08 17:00:56 i wouldn wait a year. i will take the umts free version Aug 08 17:01:02 so you're reg'd with the network at least Aug 08 17:01:09 which looks promising... but no can dial... and when i call the phone i get my voicemail (and no ring notice on the openmoko) Aug 08 17:01:21 only the money is the current problem but i think it should be possible then. Aug 08 17:01:44 does it expect the full dial code kemp|plex? Aug 08 17:02:09 I know my UK sim in .nl doesn't want +31 for numbers in .nl Aug 08 17:02:18 ScaredyCat: i tried several variants of the number... and i'm not sure why it wouldn't allow calls anyway, even if i can't dial Aug 08 17:02:20 !logs Aug 08 17:02:22 Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: Aug 08 17:02:23 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko Aug 08 17:02:24 Live-logs are available at Aug 08 17:02:25 http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog Aug 08 17:02:27 See ?? help-logs for usage instructions Aug 08 17:02:27 ,, Aug 08 17:02:59 mickey|DIY: put down that hammer ;) Aug 08 17:10:24 right Aug 08 17:15:08 :) Aug 08 17:15:14 ll done then mickeyl? Aug 08 17:15:17 all Aug 08 17:17:34 hrm... just buggy i guess... i managed to get a call to go to the device (AT+CCFC=4,0 to disable call forwarding I guess?) Aug 08 17:17:40 but now most commands are returning errors :S Aug 08 17:17:46 :/ Aug 08 17:20:22 thomasg__: query? Aug 08 17:23:30 moop. Aug 08 17:23:58 PBeck, whats up? Aug 08 17:24:13 thomasg: a german talk ;) Aug 08 17:24:25 perhaps we should use the german channel? Aug 08 17:24:35 good idea :) Aug 08 17:24:43 #neo1973-germany Aug 08 17:29:51 * ScaredyCat starts up a #neo1973-england Aug 08 17:30:07 lol Aug 08 17:31:57 /lastlog gtk Aug 08 17:32:07 nothing found Aug 08 17:32:13 heh, whoops Aug 08 17:35:01 uboot not building again ? Aug 08 17:59:26 * SpeedEvil creates http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy Aug 08 18:08:01 * ScaredyCat prods SpeedEvil Aug 08 18:09:45 ? Aug 08 18:10:16 you tried a buld recently ? Aug 08 18:10:19 no. Aug 08 18:10:24 s/buld/build/ Aug 08 18:10:24 ScaredyCat meant: you tried a build recently ? Aug 08 18:10:34 :( Aug 08 18:13:52 Hmm. Aug 08 18:14:00 should i be using the builds from openphone as opposed to buildhost? Aug 08 18:16:43 hi Aug 08 18:17:40 im trying to make a call using openmoko-dialer, but it doesnt work, but with libgsmd-tool i can Aug 08 18:17:55 anyone has this problem? Aug 08 18:23:01 Faggot I am. Prepare your asses... Aug 08 18:26:35 openphone kemp|plex? Aug 08 18:27:05 ScaredyCat: no, OpenMoko suxx! Aug 08 18:27:50 last Aug 08 18:29:57 ScaredyCat: sorry chooseopen i mean Aug 08 18:30:10 :) Aug 08 18:32:22 So what is the longest battery life anyone has gotten out of one of these things so far? Aug 08 18:32:23 chiprunner: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 08 18:33:26 chip: some 40h, in suspend Aug 08 18:34:23 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management Aug 08 18:35:23 SpeedEvil: and you can still receive calls in that mode? Aug 08 18:35:54 yes - it should be configurable to wake - not at the moment Aug 08 18:36:30 Has anyone set up a comprehensive pm app beyond what I get when I hold the power button down (which hasn't been the most reliable anyway)? Aug 08 18:36:55 no. Aug 08 18:37:05 * chiprunner le sigh. Aug 08 18:37:54 It will happen - there are things with higher priority though. Aug 08 18:37:59 * Quintano Le Chuck... Aug 08 18:38:45 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Neo1973_case_schematics]] [[Manually_using_SMS]] [[Server:Proxy]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[Neo1973:GTA01:Kernel]] [[Carriers]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Switzerland]] and other changes Aug 08 18:39:00 Yeah, it would be nice to have a little more intelligence in mixer control, I've gotten a couple of call attempts that caused a lot of feedback. Aug 08 18:41:51 rschuster: nice screenshots! Aug 08 18:47:05 The mixer has plenty of intelligence. Aug 08 18:47:14 There are 90 some individual mixers. Aug 08 18:47:30 and dozens of ways to route audio round the device. Aug 08 18:47:42 after lowering the master control from 100 to 94 the feedback on calls was gone Aug 08 18:48:04 To do some things will require more hardware. Aug 08 18:48:06 err Aug 08 18:48:08 software Aug 08 18:48:35 For example, speakerphone will require noise cancelling software. Aug 08 18:49:07 SpeedEvil: would you like to feel my bunghole, eh? Aug 08 18:53:15 SpeedEvil, I think there's plenty of possibility in the mixer, I meant that we need a layer above it to check and verify appropriate settings for standard user tasks. Aug 08 18:54:35 These could obviously be changed easily for specific tasks that developers want to instrument, but I admit I sometimes wish the phone had worked a little better OOB. Aug 08 18:57:30 I has a brokenmoko Aug 08 18:57:45 :F Aug 08 18:57:48 SpeedEvil: Have you ever looked at WML Aug 08 18:58:00 regarding compression Aug 08 18:58:38 Stephmw: what screenshots? :P Aug 08 18:58:59 :O Aug 08 19:03:32 Basheri: http://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/robertschuster/weblog/gnu_classpath_openmoko_screenshot_time Aug 08 19:03:43 thx Aug 08 19:04:21 nice indeed =) Aug 08 19:09:43 how big is the partition for the rootfs on the NAND? Aug 08 19:10:28 thomasg: 61.1M Aug 08 19:11:26 thomasg: if you use the emulator you can make it bigger easily (see openmoko-devel) and have a bit of GTA02 feeling ;) Aug 08 19:11:41 hehe Aug 08 19:11:42 wiki busticated Aug 08 19:11:52 60 mb sounds good Aug 08 19:12:06 I'm building a image containing e-x11 (e17 and efl) right now Aug 08 19:12:22 sounds cool Aug 08 19:12:33 and I feared it wouldn't fit on the nand (om2007.2 standard has 40 mb) Aug 08 19:13:39 I flashed a 40mb image today thomasg ... Aug 08 19:13:46 but I can't roll back :( Aug 08 19:14:29 what do you mean with roll back? Aug 08 19:15:04 go back yo om2007.1 Aug 08 19:15:10 s/yo/to/ Aug 08 19:15:10 ScaredyCat meant: go back to om2007.1 Aug 08 19:15:16 but why not? Aug 08 19:15:27 does anyone else have trouble with alsa modules not being present in the latest released rootfs ? Aug 08 19:15:29 wont boot... Aug 08 19:15:48 I'm going through ll the images I have and all those on chooseopen... Aug 08 19:15:51 ScaredyCat, and you used erase rootfs? and a new kernel? Aug 08 19:15:57 just get kernel panics Aug 08 19:16:00 ScaredyCat: tried cleaning rootfs before reflashing? Aug 08 19:16:15 flashed wth \0's Aug 08 19:16:58 kernel panic - not syncing Aug 08 19:17:01 ScaredyCat: Didya use USB console, and do a 'nand erase rootfs'? Aug 08 19:17:09 no... Aug 08 19:17:11 What does it say before the panic, though? Aug 08 19:17:20 * ScaredyCat Freeing 120k meme Aug 08 19:17:44 I'm building a new image at moment - can I renice the whole build-process at once in any way? Aug 08 19:17:55 ScaredyCat: u-boot apparantly doesn't erase rootfs automatically when flashing Aug 08 19:18:53 ScaredyCat: which could lead to problems flashing to images _smaller_ than present image Aug 08 19:18:57 thomasg: If you renice the parent processes, at least all newly spawned processes will have the new nice-value Aug 08 19:19:17 thomasg: But I don't think it propagates downwards if you renice a parent. Aug 08 19:19:21 (to already spawned children) Aug 08 19:19:28 serial on /dev/usb0 Aug 08 19:19:30 ? Aug 08 19:20:33 ScaredyCat: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Using_usbtty_from_Linux Aug 08 19:20:40 ta Aug 08 19:22:02 (ne'er done it myself) Aug 08 19:23:26 goddamn i hate the X in upper left corner totally impossible to click with fingers (2007.2) Aug 08 19:24:28 what speed should it be >? Aug 08 19:24:51 jeddy3, yes, that was the first thing I complained about in 2007.2 ;) Aug 08 19:25:08 but still better than 2007 - it was/is nearby unusable with fingers only Aug 08 19:25:09 jeddy3: therefore some people grow "technical fingernail" :) Aug 08 19:25:12 got it Aug 08 19:25:43 mmp, you mean the kind of nail you can drive screws out? :) Aug 08 19:25:51 you can't edit the farking wiki Aug 08 19:26:03 thomasg: sort of :) Aug 08 19:26:56 thomasg: yes, still way better than 2007.1, i agree Aug 08 19:27:08 mmp: :D Aug 08 19:27:34 I really like 2007.2 Aug 08 19:27:39 looks very well-designed Aug 08 19:27:40 nod Aug 08 19:28:16 btw. - mailinglist down or what? Aug 08 19:43:12 VERSION Aug 08 19:45:40 * Stephmw eyes Cap_J_L_Picard Aug 08 19:46:01 * SuN beams Cap_J_L_Picard to a non-M-class moon Aug 08 19:46:44 * Basheri stabs Cap_J_L_Picard Aug 08 19:51:50 just the job daxxar - that fixed it Aug 08 19:52:02 Glad to hear that, ScaredyCat :-) Aug 08 19:52:07 kernel question... how would one go about static-linking an application binary directly to a monolithic kernel? Aug 08 19:52:15 daxxar++ Aug 08 19:54:24 hm, damn, tried to build e17/efl for openmoko, but it fails (seems openembedded doesn't use or set PKG_CONFIG) Aug 08 19:55:01 ah, it does - but a package is missing Aug 08 19:56:18 thomasg: then report it and maybe even provide fix? Aug 08 19:56:25 .2 rocks Aug 08 19:56:30 hrw, I'm looking, yes Aug 08 19:56:30 mmazur: 2007.2? Aug 08 19:56:32 Untill it freaked out on me and died. Aug 08 19:56:48 hrw, yeah. Aug 08 19:56:54 died in what way? Aug 08 19:56:56 mmazur: agreed Aug 08 19:57:12 Only the upper bar with the icons survived. Aug 08 19:57:17 Everything else turned black. Aug 08 19:57:26 And I had to ssh to it and do a 'halt'. Aug 08 19:57:30 No other way to turn it off. Aug 08 19:57:35 yeah, .2 definately rocks Aug 08 19:57:39 mmazur: has happened to me a couple of times also Aug 08 19:57:40 Unless I had to press the power button for 60 seconds. Aug 08 19:58:58 hmm, strange... Aug 08 20:00:09 I must say, the scrolling rocks. Aug 08 20:00:10 i compiled scummvm and installed its ipkg and all it's dependencies...and a executable ended up in /usr/bin...but sh says it cannot find it anyway Aug 08 20:01:15 scummvm? Aug 08 20:01:16 Games! Aug 08 20:01:38 :) Aug 08 20:02:19 re Aug 08 20:07:54 jeddy3: just tried openttd Aug 08 20:07:55 jeddy3: doesnt work unfortunately Aug 08 20:08:13 rschuster: :| Aug 08 20:08:27 rschuster: transport tycoon rocks Aug 08 20:08:28 jeddy3: fixing the bb to compile the more recent 0.5.2 was simple but I guess the neo's sdl doesnt like the fact that openttd requires 8 bit surfaces Aug 08 20:08:43 hi rschuster Aug 08 20:08:57 jeddy3: I tried to build a SVN snapshot then (they have high color support in that) Aug 08 20:08:59 hi woglinde Aug 08 20:09:11 jeddy3: but that one is evil Aug 08 20:09:20 rschuster: :) Aug 08 20:10:23 jeddy3: they use a autotools-like configuration system which isnt the autotools in the end .. :( Aug 08 20:11:28 anyone remember the unofficial name of the future FIC phone? Aug 08 20:11:33 woglinde: have you gotten cacao to accept a proper bootclasspath and gnu.classpath.boot.library.path? Aug 08 20:11:52 it slipping my mind right now... Aug 08 20:12:02 ciphercast222_: hdx8? Aug 08 20:12:07 woglinde: in mine all paths are wrong and I must correct them using -Xbootclasspath: and -Dgnu.classpath.boot.library.path= Aug 08 20:12:08 thx Aug 08 20:12:11 rschuster caco or caco-cldc? Aug 08 20:12:27 woglinde: applies to both Aug 08 20:12:28 I only tested cacao-cldc and will commit today *really* Aug 08 20:12:47 on my simpad cacao-cldc midpath-qt works Aug 08 20:12:48 btw, python and pygame (python-sdl) worked flawlessly Aug 08 20:12:49 woglinde: cacao-cldc will go into OE? Aug 08 20:12:51 guillaum rocks Aug 08 20:12:52 woglinde: sweet Aug 08 20:13:09 rschuster yes Aug 08 20:13:21 I will integrate the thread.alive patch Aug 08 20:13:21 woglinde: how have you gotten around the genoffsets thingie? Aug 08 20:13:38 ahoy! Aug 08 20:13:45 rschuster as I said run genoffset on the host copy it out Aug 08 20:13:51 aeh target Aug 08 20:14:01 I will show you the patch in oe bugtracker Aug 08 20:14:03 anybody know the reasoning behind me receiving a guitar pick with my phone? ?:P Aug 08 20:14:17 rtyler: to pry open the case :) Aug 08 20:14:20 rschuster -> http://bugs.openembedded.org/attachment.cgi?id=1472 Aug 08 20:14:32 see the webpage on how to open your phone Aug 08 20:14:32 jeddy3: haha, nice Aug 08 20:14:47 a coworker figured it out before I could find the page :P Aug 08 20:14:51 there should be a screwdriver in there too Aug 08 20:14:52 rtyler: really cool pick also =P Aug 08 20:14:54 now I'm at stage 1, flashing it >_> Aug 08 20:15:05 ckuethe: there is, in advance kit Aug 08 20:15:44 jeddy3: hxd8, fyi Aug 08 20:16:00 ciphercast222_: ah yes, that's it :) Aug 08 20:16:44 woglinde: but this approach is going to cause trouble for everyone using cacao with a different compiler, kernel, bytesex or wordsize Aug 08 20:18:05 woglinde: you should perhaps blacklist the bb for non-32bit and bigendian targets at least Aug 08 20:18:07 rschuster right Aug 08 20:18:12 even watching my phone kernel panic was fantastic Aug 08 20:18:24 (as a sidenote ;)) Aug 08 20:18:30 rtyler: nice to see everyone having fun :) Aug 08 20:19:27 so far, kernel panic, laser pointer pen/stylus, guitar pick; this is the most fun phone I've had thus far ;) Aug 08 20:19:39 and you haven't even gotten it to do anything :) Aug 08 20:19:43 the coaster that says "Some Assembly Required" is nice too Aug 08 20:19:51 doc|work: no kidding :P Aug 08 20:19:57 that's a coaster? I thought it was an envelope :| Aug 08 20:20:04 * doc|work wants one :( Aug 08 20:20:12 the little cardboard square thing? Aug 08 20:20:34 it'd be a crap coaster if it's made out of cardboard :) Aug 08 20:20:36 rschuster hm the solution is only build for arm now Aug 08 20:20:59 and bail out if someother will build it Aug 08 20:22:23 can i use openmoko without stylus? Aug 08 20:22:32 mayeco yes Aug 08 20:22:33 doc|work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/1053323573/ Aug 08 20:22:39 use your fingers Aug 08 20:22:40 thanks Aug 08 20:22:47 and work nice? Aug 08 20:23:13 mayeco: there are two types of app, finger and stylus. Aug 08 20:23:15 woglinde: yeah. btw the mmap_disable.patch is included 2 times in your bug report Aug 08 20:23:23 should be able to do most common things with fingers afaik Aug 08 20:23:53 rschuster its not mine Aug 08 20:24:02 rtyler: The photo you were looking for has been deleted. Aug 08 20:24:08 some one put it earlier in Aug 08 20:24:20 woglinde: oh ok :) Aug 08 20:24:24 if I want to buy a openmoko now, I know is a developer version the hardware will change or only the software? Aug 08 20:24:34 hardware too Aug 08 20:24:39 ohhhh Aug 08 20:24:41 doc|work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/1054195462/in/set-72157600934925721/ Aug 08 20:24:42 fast cpu better gpu and wifi Aug 08 20:24:49 price will change too I guess Aug 08 20:24:51 sorry, I forgot that PhotoBooth flips the text >_> Aug 08 20:25:07 more money? Aug 08 20:25:13 man, my work day is screwed, I'm going to play with this too much today Aug 08 20:25:30 rtyler: hmmm, so, it looks like a coaster, is it a coaster? Aug 08 20:25:44 mayeco: I'd really recommend you to wait. Aug 08 20:25:52 for gta02 $450 for standard and $600 for advanced Aug 08 20:25:53 maybe a cheap denny's style coaster ;) Aug 08 20:26:02 its a beer mat! Aug 08 20:26:17 rtyler: heh Aug 08 20:26:25 zedstar: made out of cardboard? it'll never last :) Aug 08 20:26:33 Is the neo1973 powerful enough to handle some encryption capabilities? Aug 08 20:26:35 * doc|work would really like a proper coaster Aug 08 20:26:38 hi, what is the date for end user release of the phone? Aug 08 20:26:45 the beer mats in UK are even cheaper looking! Aug 08 20:26:47 jimmygoon: I would assume it would handle SSH just fine ;) Aug 08 20:26:48 jimmygoon: rot13? :) Aug 08 20:26:53 heh Aug 08 20:27:16 I was thinking more along the lines of two neo users talking to each other encrypted - no NSA, etc Aug 08 20:27:19 jimmygoon: it's certainly not going to be *cracking* encryption, but I think you should be fine with SSH Aug 08 20:27:26 ok I'll wait Aug 08 20:27:28 thanks Aug 08 20:27:29 but Aug 08 20:27:31 buy Aug 08 20:27:33 jimmygoon: encrypted VoIP? Aug 08 20:27:36 yes Aug 08 20:27:36 bye... :S Aug 08 20:27:40 mayeco: bye :) Aug 08 20:27:50 except not VoIP, over regular GSM to shaft the ATT/NSA Aug 08 20:28:00 these should be able to work on vlans, right? Aug 08 20:28:02 jimmygoon: good luck with that :P Aug 08 20:28:29 I'm sure AT&T will drop your encrypted calls ASAP Aug 08 20:28:30 jimmygoon: You don't have access to the GSM stack Aug 08 20:28:39 jimmygoon: try encrypted sip over a vpn using wifi from a local cafe. :) Aug 08 20:29:01 doc|work: psssh, all the cool kids use IAX over SSH tunnels Aug 08 20:29:10 but if the NSA really want to hear what you're saying, they will. They're the NSA ffs :) Aug 08 20:29:13 rtyler: really they would drop it?? abraxa_ theirs no way to encrypt the audio before it hits the GSM stack? Aug 08 20:29:26 they probably have quantum computers already but just aren't saying :) Aug 08 20:29:32 rtyler: yeah, now you lost me :) Aug 08 20:29:33 jimmygoon: There is but that's not "encryption" in the sense I understood it Aug 08 20:29:33 IAX ? Aug 08 20:29:43 abraxa_, fair enough Aug 08 20:29:48 http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-IAX Aug 08 20:29:56 rtyler hm Aug 08 20:30:03 IAX is a very lightweight VoIP protocol Aug 08 20:30:35 does openembedded support PKG_CONFIG? Aug 08 20:30:52 so, is there tapping on VoIP too? or is there even a need for an encrypted voip? Aug 08 20:31:14 RTSP Aug 08 20:31:20 ZRTP Aug 08 20:34:23 jimmygoon: I'll be running it. I have no need for it but I'll be doing what I can to lower the signal to noise ratio to make it harder for them to tap and break. Aug 08 20:34:54 (just because I'm opposed to the warrantless tapping in the first place) Aug 08 20:35:11 doc|work: just make sure you don't talk about the PRESIDENT's jokes BOMBING at that luncheon the other night >_> Aug 08 20:35:39 * doc|work waves to the NSA Aug 08 20:35:44 heh Aug 08 20:36:09 I'm an Irish person living in North America. It's possible i'm on a list already :) Aug 08 20:36:19 oh noes! the irish terrorists!! Aug 08 20:36:23 etc etc Aug 08 20:36:32 hehe Aug 08 20:36:36 does the battery come charged already? or should I wait some indeterminate amount of time to let the battery charge before I start futzing with it (i.e. unplug and flash) Aug 08 20:36:48 nolet it charge Aug 08 20:37:06 when will it be done? Aug 08 20:37:16 * rtyler looks for a blinky light to tell him Aug 08 20:37:57 * doc|work wants :( Aug 08 20:38:18 doc|work: after I accidentally brick mine, i'll send it on over >_< Aug 08 20:38:22 woot... i got data working... is the browser webkit? Aug 08 20:38:24 schweet! Aug 08 20:38:56 rtyler: I'm not really going to be all that interested until there's wifi. Data plans are insanely expensive :| Aug 08 20:39:13 actually, voice plans are even insanely expensive but anyway... Aug 08 20:39:13 kemp|plex: if it renders pages properly, it's probably webkit ;) Aug 08 20:42:58 I haven't been around for ages... Has anything fun happened since people started receiving their Neo's? Aug 08 20:45:25 This is a totally uninformed question, so I'm sorry. Could openmoko be used as a basis for porting linux to a Windows Mobile smartphone? How much hardware would they be likely to share? Aug 08 20:45:26 moreati: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 08 20:45:56 jeddy3: a friend of mine got Monkey Island and thus ScummVM working but is holding off with submitting the patches until the oe-merge is done. Aug 08 20:46:26 oe-merge? we're converging with open embedded? Aug 08 20:46:50 rtyler: the oe-overlay from openmoko ist being merged upstream. Aug 08 20:47:07 rtyler sure Aug 08 20:47:13 yay! Aug 08 20:47:30 because it makes no sense Aug 08 20:47:51 to lose power to merge it again and again Aug 08 20:48:48 Hi all Aug 08 20:49:12 Kinda silly question ... how can I record and playback sound from the mic/speaker? Aug 08 20:49:41 (and is it different to do it to the headphones/remote mic?) Aug 08 20:51:58 has anybody tried putting openmoko on a SD card and boot it from there? is there more involved then creating a tar.gz of the rootfs and tar xfz it on a SD card? Aug 08 20:52:33 rschuster hm schoudnt Aug 08 20:52:41 rschuster: Does the SD card have a filesystem already? Aug 08 20:52:43 you only have to tell the kernel all about your rootfs Aug 08 20:52:51 (Might be preformatted FAT) Aug 08 20:53:50 rschuster: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD Aug 08 20:54:32 hi ph5 Aug 08 20:55:09 hej woglinde Aug 08 20:56:18 No hints for sound? :( Aug 08 20:56:59 HistoryOnTheRoad: I dont know. its probably formatted with VFAT Aug 08 20:57:19 HistoryOnTheRoad: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem Aug 08 20:58:21 rschuster: I can't recall if FATfs has long filename support. Other then that, it should work though. There is a boot option in uBoot I believe. Aug 08 20:59:08 fat has no symlink support Aug 08 20:59:12 so forget it Aug 08 20:59:27 woglinde: no worries. I will do mkfs.ext2 :) Aug 08 21:00:29 jffs2 might be a better choice ;) Aug 08 21:00:47 (ie same as the rootfs, if you are going to boot it) Aug 08 21:01:08 HistoryOnTheRoad sd-cards and cf-cards are now cheap Aug 08 21:01:12 no need for jffs2 Aug 08 21:01:19 HistoryOnTheRoad: no. jffs2 is for NAND flash were the controller is implemented in the OS Aug 08 21:01:20 if you broke one Aug 08 21:01:23 bye a new one Aug 08 21:01:30 HistoryOnTheRoad: jffs2 on sd card is not possible rather Aug 08 21:01:41 1GB microSD is ~10 EUR now Aug 08 21:01:57 how much slower is reading from the external vs the internal? Aug 08 21:02:10 eg can i put apps on the external and expect it to be reasonable? Aug 08 21:02:23 * HistoryOnTheRoad stands corrected ... :) Aug 08 21:02:57 kemp|plex: Depends what "reasonable" means :) Aug 08 21:02:58 btw, does the neo take cf? Aug 08 21:03:10 doc|work: no Aug 08 21:03:13 doc|work: No, MicroSD Aug 08 21:03:15 HistoryOnTheRoad: :) fair enough -- any estimates? is it 10x slower, 2x slower... ? Aug 08 21:03:27 HistoryOnTheRoad: "In practice, these filesystems are only used for "Memory Technology Devices" ("MTD"), which are embedded flash memories which do not have a controller. Removable flash media, such as SD and CF cards and USB flash drives, have a controller (often built into the card) to perform wear-levelling and error correction, so use of JFFS2 or YAFFS does not add any benefit." (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory) Aug 08 21:04:25 kemp|plex: I saw some people doing benchmarks earlier, SD was a bit faster Aug 08 21:04:36 seriously? that's awesome Aug 08 21:04:47 kemp|plex: I would suspect it's comparable to the internal... I haven't tried anything, but i'd guess 2x slower. But that should still be fairly quick, and quicker then a HD I would guess for reading. Aug 08 21:05:00 on my simpad the nfsroot is faster than jffs2 Aug 08 21:05:28 the best SD cards are 9MB/s I hear. the one that comes bundled with neo managed 3.3MB/s from what I saw earlier. Aug 08 21:06:17 the internal flash was 2.6MB/s Aug 08 21:07:28 Jiten: thanks, good to hear Aug 08 21:07:42 there were some benchmarks at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review for the p0 devices Aug 08 21:09:47 well, I'm mostly lurking here and answering if I see a question I can answer. Not much but it might make OpenMoko somewhat better when I get around to buying GTA2 Aug 08 21:12:14 Jiten: Every little bit helps ;) Aug 08 21:13:00 other than that, I haven't really done much more than set up the qemu system and images with MokoMakefile and played around a bit with it :) Aug 08 21:13:17 looks promising though :) Aug 08 21:14:02 Kensan: thanks for the wiki pointer Aug 08 21:16:58 Would everything phase0 related apply to phase1? Aug 08 21:17:06 minus some hardware issues Aug 08 21:17:07 I think so, but always good to ask Aug 08 21:17:59 hmmm. Call recording, but no just speaker -> disk recording. Aug 08 21:18:11 mic -> disk I mean Aug 08 21:18:15 really? Aug 08 21:18:18 that doesn't seem right Aug 08 21:19:08 Heh, no... there is a HEADING for call recording, but no actual info :) Aug 08 21:21:12 woglinde: I am not registered. cant send private messages Aug 08 21:21:34 rschuster ah Aug 08 21:21:38 hm Aug 08 21:21:46 okay I will send you an email Aug 08 21:22:02 woglinde: or create a channel and write me the name in the PM Aug 08 21:22:14 *lol* Aug 08 21:22:24 * Stephmw sends the 'register' vibes to rschuster Aug 08 21:29:01 woglinde: were you the one that told me to charge my neo completely? Aug 08 21:29:10 * rtyler is wondering when it'll be done Aug 08 21:29:56 hi Aug 08 21:29:59 anybody knows if there is any problem with openmoko mailing lists? Aug 08 21:37:15 jroman: only that they've been awfully quite lately Aug 08 21:37:27 probably cause many are at camp Aug 08 21:40:38 rtyler depends in which mode you are 100mw or 500mw with 100 it needs up to 12 hours the first time Aug 08 21:42:38 I hear a lot of talk about 100ma charge mode. I measure this to be about 40 - 45ma - has anybody seen different? Aug 08 21:43:33 watt or ampere? Aug 08 21:43:57 45 milliampere Aug 08 21:44:26 which is about 225 milliwatts Aug 08 21:45:09 both of my neo's (mis) behave the same Aug 08 21:49:08 I think I just buggered my sd card :( Aug 08 21:49:20 does somebody know if esmart is working via openembedded? Aug 08 21:49:51 uboot still failing also :( Aug 08 21:49:58 * ScaredyCat blames mickey|sports Aug 08 21:49:59 i've been building for about 8 hours >=(( Aug 08 21:50:24 | chmod: cannot access `board/neo1973/gta*/split_by_variant.sh': No such file or directory Aug 08 21:52:06 LOS METALLER JOINT HÖRT ZU UND GEHT FLIEGEN DEN (/!\) #pure-metal /!\ mit [P-M]Mentario /!\ Late Night Show /!\ ist online /!\ (/!\ StreamFile @ www.pure-metal.de oda http://www.metal.host-tech.de/portal/getstream1.php?stream=1 [noSry4amsg] Aug 08 21:52:46 -.- Aug 08 21:52:53 we need an op Aug 08 21:53:00 s1mxn, tell creep greetings from me :) Aug 08 21:53:04 * Basheri coughs Aug 08 21:53:11 yaaay Aug 08 21:53:46 bagpuss_thecat: ! Aug 08 21:54:25 woglinde: I'm charging off of USB, with the Neo Basic, how could I possibly bump the powar! ;) Aug 08 21:54:59 get a 500ma capable port :) Aug 08 21:55:32 aw crap, now I gotta figure out how badass, or the lack thereof, my workstation is? :P Aug 08 21:56:10 almost any desktop will have 500ma from any root port Aug 08 21:56:16 as will most laptops Aug 08 21:56:23 even my laptop does Aug 08 21:56:31 100ma is rare Aug 08 21:56:46 Writchie: well, I plugged it into the front of my Dell dual Opteron, so I'm hoping it's 500 Aug 08 21:56:48 it is mostly from devices like keyboards with an extra usb port for the mouse Aug 08 21:57:07 rtyler hm there was some kernel valaue which says at which charge level you are Aug 08 21:57:08 it won't draw 500ma unless it enumerates to the system Aug 08 21:57:15 but I forgot where it is Aug 08 21:57:22 but it is in the wiki Aug 08 21:57:26 I think Aug 08 21:57:29 woglinde: I haven't even flashed it with the rootfs for the first time yet :P Aug 08 21:57:42 openmoko mailinglists still working? or have I fallen off? Aug 08 21:57:55 kero you gmail? Aug 08 21:57:57 Kero: I haven't gotten anything from the device-owners list since I signed up Aug 08 21:57:58 +have Aug 08 21:58:04 woglinde: no Aug 08 21:58:06 hm Aug 08 21:58:08 okay Aug 08 21:58:14 than mailmain seems broken Aug 08 21:58:17 args Aug 08 21:58:19 mailman Aug 08 21:58:36 woglinde: quiet! don't make it angry, it could go *postal* Aug 08 21:58:37 sent a mail to device-owners about 24 hours ago, which is in the archives, but I haven't received anything since. Aug 08 21:58:39 *rimshot* Aug 08 21:58:54 thankk you, i'll be here all night Aug 08 21:59:49 rtyler: Don't forget the roast beef :P Aug 08 22:00:16 Kero: same for openmoko-devel Aug 08 22:00:29 mailman seems to be down or sth like this Aug 08 22:01:32 yay. mailinglists are down and many of the openmoko guys is at CCCamp :) Aug 08 22:02:10 ok, I know enough, thx! Aug 08 22:02:43 * Kero has shown Neo (w/ working image) to friends and colleagues today. Aug 08 22:03:07 how did that go Aug 08 22:03:08 most are imressed what they see, some don't understand it doesn't *do* much, yet. Aug 08 22:03:18 Kero: :) Aug 08 22:03:25 Kero: with OM 2007.2 ? Aug 08 22:03:27 Kero, I decided to wait Aug 08 22:03:34 Neo looks good and has a gorgeous screen Aug 08 22:03:43 lots of people like that :) Aug 08 22:03:45 OM 2007 Aug 08 22:03:55 with mismatching kernel/rootfs Aug 08 22:04:01 who cares :) Aug 08 22:04:06 Kero: shows them ultra-cool kinetic scrolling in OM 2007.2 :) Aug 08 22:04:12 s/shows/show/ Aug 08 22:04:12 rschuster meant: Kero: show them ultra-cool kinetic scrolling in OM 2007.2 :) Aug 08 22:04:22 kinetic scrolling sucks Aug 08 22:04:31 aand some friends know I like this kind of thing, so they can think along. Aug 08 22:04:35 thomasg: .. but looks good ;) Aug 08 22:04:41 rschuster, correct Aug 08 22:04:53 looks good, but the concept is ugly Aug 08 22:05:05 and then I work at a high tech company. Aug 08 22:05:24 thomasg: What would you rather see? Aug 08 22:05:32 a simple scrollbar :) Aug 08 22:05:33 can someone look at what /dev/ is for the sdcard Aug 08 22:05:41 it'll be fun by the time they say "I wish my phone could do X" and I can say, "mine does" Aug 08 22:05:45 mtdblock4? Aug 08 22:05:49 in a few months, who knows? Aug 08 22:06:09 abraxa_, kinetic scrolling may look nice, but in a long (or not so long) list it takes years to get where you want Aug 08 22:06:11 now where was the thread about dead batteries... mine just ran out of juice... Aug 08 22:06:31 scrollbars are abstracting the whole list on the size of the display, good concept, works, and is very usable Aug 08 22:06:33 thomasg: I agree, I just wonder how it could be improved Aug 08 22:06:48 imho a combination would be ok Aug 08 22:07:15 so you could take the scrollbar for long lists and the kinetic scrolling for the details or for short lists Aug 08 22:07:41 another posibility would be to have screen zones, e.g. on the left side the kinetic scrolling is slow (like now) and on the right side of the list it's much faster Aug 08 22:08:30 thomasg: Actually, when the categories are in place the list will be a lot smaller so I'm not sure if that will be an issue anymore Aug 08 22:09:13 abraxa_, it's not only the application list. what about contacts? Aug 08 22:09:27 some people have more than 1000 contacts Aug 08 22:09:46 and even my 100 contacts are too much for kinetic scrolling Aug 08 22:10:22 thomasg: There we'll have categories as well and using the keyboard to type the first char of the name should reduce the size of the list to a bareable size, too Aug 08 22:10:31 my old phone can only storw 100 numbers. it's full. Aug 08 22:10:47 then I can (and will) add a series of colleagues to my Neo in due time Aug 08 22:11:00 company phonebook, so to say Aug 08 22:11:00 abraxa_, I like having a search function on the contact list (and maybe each other list, too), but I do not want to be forced to use it Aug 08 22:11:17 especially because you would have to use the stylus every time Aug 08 22:11:19 thomasg: Especially since we have no hardware keyboard, yeah Aug 08 22:11:36 Wouldn't you use a search on such a scale? Aug 08 22:12:14 I personally don't intend to let my contact list grow to such a size in the first place - at least not without using categories Aug 08 22:12:34 oh, I'll definitely categorize them Aug 08 22:12:49 easy enough. I think... Aug 08 22:13:33 how difficult is it going to be to get replacement stylus? they're going to get lost, lots Aug 08 22:13:36 If evolution integration works nicely then yes :) Aug 08 22:13:36 :) Aug 08 22:13:56 doc|work: loose such a big thing? :) Aug 08 22:14:04 That's what I thought, too Aug 08 22:14:21 Kero: I lose pens *all* the time :) Aug 08 22:14:30 And I wonder why the Neo pouch is too small to fit the stylus Aug 08 22:14:38 anyone? Aug 08 22:14:46 abraxa_: I intend to work on some app integration things. Aug 08 22:14:58 once I'm back from holiday by the end of the month :) Aug 08 22:14:59 Kero: wonderful! Aug 08 22:15:38 abraxa_: if my phone has contacts and an agenda, it should be easy to call people that'll join a meeting in five minutes. and such things. Aug 08 22:16:40 Kero: I love that OpenMoko has gained enough momentum to be interesting for the general open source crowd - it will spark tons of interesting appllications =) Aug 08 22:17:21 abraxa_: it will, even if just 10% of the P1 owners write little thing each (that'll be 200 interesting things) Aug 08 22:17:51 hehe yeah Aug 08 22:18:00 timing just sucks for me, I'll be gone for to weeks, just after received my Neo :( Aug 08 22:18:39 Plus, those of us who don't own a p1 device. Aug 08 22:21:42 where is the wiki page with info on how to setup ip forwarding and such for internet via usb ? Aug 08 22:23:09 isn't ipforwarding a write to some file? Aug 08 22:23:57 echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward or something very close Aug 08 22:24:35 usbnet setup isnt openmoko specific Aug 08 22:24:50 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking Aug 08 22:25:13 ah, usual ways works then Aug 08 22:32:11 I wish I understood why the creators of GTK made everything independent of the screen resolution - except for paddings, which I happen to need a lot of. Aug 08 22:44:29 abraxa_: spite ;) Aug 08 22:44:51 Must be... either that or just braindeadness Aug 08 22:54:18 Writchie: no - 40mA is about right for 'low rate'. Aug 08 22:54:28 I don't know where 100mA came from. Aug 08 22:55:09 SpeedEvil: Heya Aug 08 22:55:20 :) Aug 08 22:55:40 I'm trying to work my way through all of the Neo systems. :P Aug 08 22:56:00 What do you mean? Aug 08 22:56:04 I think my GSM problem might be related to a mismatched rootfs/kernel Aug 08 22:56:15 what GSM problem? Aug 08 22:56:33 I was trying to make a call yesterday, but it wan't working. Aug 08 22:56:35 If you can talk to the modem at all, it's not that. Aug 08 22:56:48 the kernel: Aug 08 22:57:01 Net registers ok, but won't make a call Aug 08 22:57:20 Sets up the UART, and turns on and off the power. Aug 08 22:57:25 It does nothing more. Aug 08 22:57:31 Ah, if GSM is talking to me it's not a mismatch? Aug 08 22:57:35 No. Aug 08 22:57:47 The GSM module is connected via a serial line. Aug 08 22:57:48 ok Aug 08 22:58:05 the only thing the kernel can do to it is to raise/lower a line to indicate it should suspend. Aug 08 22:58:09 gotcha. Ok, well I hoped it was something stupid like that. Aug 08 22:58:16 which if you're talking to it, it's not doing. Aug 08 22:58:17 :"/ Aug 08 22:58:40 So, network registration but not able to call. I'm in North America, and have tried a few ways to dial. Aug 08 22:59:46 I thought I could at least make it a recording and playback device while I tried to figure out what was up with no GSM calling :S Aug 08 23:01:15 (I'd try GPS, but from what i understand we're awaiting paperwork to release the GPS driver) Aug 08 23:03:35 hm, so can anyone clue me on how to insert the SIM card? It seems like the SD card latch blocks it from coming up, in either position. Aug 08 23:03:54 Oops, never mind, my brain finally kicked into gear. Aug 08 23:04:16 mellon: there's a video on youtube Aug 08 23:04:45 nite Aug 08 23:04:55 Yeah, that seems like it's for the old phone. My damage was that I didn't realize the SIM card holder flips up. Aug 08 23:05:37 Ive noticed many new phones hav dropped the flip sim hold for the slot Aug 08 23:05:49 s/hold/holder/ Aug 08 23:05:51 linux_galore meant: Ive noticed many new phones hav dropped the flip sim holder for the slot Aug 08 23:06:17 stepping out for a few Aug 08 23:06:21 mellon: the one really POS hardware in the neo IMO is the SIM/uSD card. Aug 08 23:06:56 mellon: the one really POS hardware in the neo IMO is the SIM/uSD card holder. Aug 08 23:07:02 It's not that bad if you're gentle with it, but it could stand a bit more robustness for the commercial version. Aug 08 23:07:13 hmm dual slots for two sim cards, now there is a seller Aug 08 23:07:19 And it certainly isn't idiot-proof, as I have demonstrated. Aug 08 23:07:43 It _needs_ a sticker on the inside of the case. Aug 08 23:08:10 Idiot-proofing is better than stickers, but yeah, that wouldn't hurt. Aug 08 23:08:36 just use a slot design for the sim, cant get more idiot proof than that Aug 08 23:08:45 'just' Aug 08 23:08:58 the problem with that approach is that it tends to need more real-estate Aug 08 23:09:01 Requires a new box. Aug 08 23:09:10 Not an option for now. But a good idea for later... :') Aug 08 23:09:13 you've got to have somewhere for the SIM to slide to. Aug 08 23:09:24 I have to say, I'm liking my creamsicle phone. Aug 08 23:09:31 It's very cute. Extremely geeky. Aug 08 23:10:01 (Just arrived) Aug 08 23:10:34 allot of room for the openmoko to mature Aug 08 23:10:50 And the pointer is wicked! Aug 08 23:11:09 Very high toy factor here - nicely done. Now I just need to figure out how to hack it. Aug 08 23:11:24 ?? the scribe, HTC have the same on their big phone (5" screen) Aug 08 23:11:37 Dunno what that is. Aug 08 23:12:09 look on youtube, just type HTC unboxing Aug 08 23:12:34 its Microsoft big assed phone to go with their big assed table Aug 08 23:12:46 Microsoft's Aug 08 23:13:11 Ah. Runs Linux, I take it? ;') Aug 08 23:13:23 no, wince 5/6 Aug 08 23:14:04 HTC sell Microsoft phones Aug 08 23:14:18 Hm, how to you refill the ink on this thing? Aug 08 23:14:43 mellon: first catch a squid Aug 08 23:14:58 In Arizona? Can't I hire it done? Aug 08 23:15:02 mellon: it unscrews Aug 08 23:15:11 Yes, and the batteries fall out... :') Aug 08 23:15:13 In two parts. Aug 08 23:15:21 three parts Aug 08 23:15:24 SpeedEvil: thanks for confirming the 40ma - not enough to charge if the GSM modem is left on and power off Aug 08 23:15:33 Umm. Aug 08 23:15:41 I'm not quite sure that's the case. Aug 08 23:15:54 Yeah, feels like I might break it if I try to twist off the front part. Aug 08 23:15:55 I haven't measured the battery current in that case - USB plugged in. Aug 08 23:16:27 it draws the 40ma when you re-plug but I think 30ma of that goes to the gsm modem Aug 08 23:16:32 mellon: hold the pen by the narrow bit. Aug 08 23:16:40 and next to the buttons Aug 08 23:16:47 pull apart - force 1Kg or so Aug 08 23:17:08 Ah. Thanks. Nicely described. Aug 08 23:17:24 mellon: SpeedEvil talks like a physics book ;) Aug 08 23:17:35 SpeedEvil: Newton, please ;) Aug 08 23:17:45 Indeed. Aug 08 23:17:47 Eh, nobody knows how much force a Newton is. Aug 08 23:17:52 Force approximately 9.8N. Aug 08 23:17:54 Except as a number. Aug 08 23:18:21 Obviously the programmable calculator on OpenMoko will need to include the units conversion table. Aug 08 23:18:22 I don't know what you're talking about, I know exactly how many newtons I need to push off the earth to stay standing ;) Aug 08 23:18:26 heh Aug 08 23:18:42 is there a motion sensor in the Neo a la the iPhone? Aug 08 23:18:42 I tend not to compute that. Aug 08 23:18:48 rtyler: no Aug 08 23:18:53 bummer, that'd be fun ;) Aug 08 23:19:02 I let the analog computers in my shoes do that computation. Aug 08 23:19:10 haha Aug 08 23:19:11 There is in the next version. Aug 08 23:19:19 I doubt the iPhone has a motion sensor either. Now, an acceleration sensor... Aug 08 23:19:22 So how's the power management methodology coming? Aug 08 23:19:33 SpeedEvil: as in, production run, or next iteration of the product? Aug 08 23:19:42 See the Power Managment page on teh wiki. Aug 08 23:19:43 rtyler: the release version Aug 08 23:19:46 rtyler, GTA02 Aug 08 23:19:48 mellon: basically slowly. Aug 08 23:20:21 OK. I haven't gotten mail since yesterday for some reason, so I'm out of the loop. Aug 08 23:22:30 Ok - latest measurements. Playing mpeg with sound - VCD quality - some 3.75 hours battery life. down to 2.5 hours if you crank the volume. Aug 08 23:24:08 What about cranking the volume but mono only? Aug 08 23:24:26 As in... only one channel active, the other muted Aug 08 23:24:51 2*0.3W output uses more power than 1*0.6W Aug 08 23:25:15 as the audio chip is not class D. Aug 08 23:25:34 I meant leaving one of the speakers muted and routing L+R to the remaining one Aug 08 23:25:54 That will save a little power at modest volume. Aug 08 23:26:04 That's what I thought :o Aug 08 23:26:13 Basically. Aug 08 23:26:30 Effeciency of the speaker output amp rises a little as the volume gets near maximum. Aug 08 23:26:59 sounds decent uptime for video playback to me Aug 08 23:27:06 Likewise, mjr Aug 08 23:27:14 SpeedEvil: they seem to already have found that out, since they deleted one of the twin speakers ;-) Aug 08 23:27:18 And any idea what class the amp is then, SpeedEvil? Aug 08 23:27:33 AB I assume Aug 08 23:27:35 it's linear Aug 08 23:27:38 cesarb: I tend to think that was due to making space for WiFi Aug 08 23:28:12 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier Aug 08 23:28:33 As to a speaker hack. Aug 08 23:28:45 Take a large bit of cardboard - 40cm*40cm Aug 08 23:28:49 abraxa_: ssshhh ;-) Aug 08 23:28:57 cut a 1.8*5cm hole in the middle. Aug 08 23:29:08 Poke the neo through so the speakers just protrude. Aug 08 23:29:13 cesarb: Oh, I get the idea now... my bad, it's late ;) Aug 08 23:29:14 Much better sound. Aug 08 23:29:57 SpeedEvil: So the sound waves travel through the cardboard? Aug 08 23:31:24 No - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_enclosure#Infinite_baffle Aug 08 23:31:37 (to a poor approximation) Aug 08 23:35:33 So am I right to conclude that the phone comes with a kernel, but no rootfs? I sort of thought it had neither until you flashed it, but it booted right up and panicked immediately with a complaint about missing init! Aug 08 23:35:42 mellon, correct Aug 08 23:35:50 that's a factory screwup Aug 08 23:35:53 luckily not too bad Aug 08 23:35:55 heh Aug 08 23:36:05 I'm delighted. Aug 08 23:36:16 mellon: it's quite a pretty panic though ain't it? :D Aug 08 23:36:18 so just flash on a more recent kernel and rootfs and you're good to go Aug 08 23:36:26 Oh yeah. It is indeed. Aug 08 23:36:26 rtyler, pretty, yes Aug 08 23:36:38 and it's got a PENGUIN! Aug 08 23:37:08 *bork* *bork* Aug 08 23:37:16 The Penguin rocks. Looks like nobody's wikified the work that was done the last couple of days on flashing from Mac OS X. Aug 08 23:39:38 So has anybody pointed out that if the iPhone is the Jesus phone, the Neo is the Buddha phone? Aug 08 23:40:06 Jesus phone... lol... Aug 08 23:40:31 * rtyler saw that this morning on crapdot Aug 08 23:41:11 Drat, I thought I was being original. Aug 08 23:41:20 well, not the budda phone comment Aug 08 23:41:24 sorry, you can have that ;) Aug 08 23:41:34 Budda budda budda... Aug 08 23:44:54 * doc|work would rather a phone than a religion :) Aug 08 23:46:11 doc|work: Really? I dunno... could be fun to be the pope and suddenly make all christians liberal. Aug 08 23:51:07 s/christians/catholics/ Aug 08 23:53:34 Ah, my bad Aug 08 23:53:37 Thanks :) Aug 08 23:54:19 Do all neos have the same ethernet MAC? Aug 08 23:55:47 SpeedEvil, apparently the usb mac is randomized Aug 08 23:55:50 ah Aug 08 23:56:41 someone complained on the device-owners list, I commented a bit, some guy seemed to take it on himself to make a persistent mac by caching one generated from the BT one Aug 08 23:56:54 (it's settable via ifconfig) Aug 08 23:57:29 apparently MacOS X deals suboptimally with the mac changing around Aug 08 23:58:22 which michael was michael@crosscode.org... Aug 08 23:59:25 Ethernet MAC changing is bad. Aug 08 23:59:48 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-August/000181.html is the stated intent to do something about it Aug 08 23:59:52 and there's the thread around it Aug 08 23:59:58 Ah Aug 09 00:00:46 probably he will manage, not really a big job, just a polish-up Aug 09 00:00:58 Should probably be constant based on some unique id inside neos? Aug 09 00:01:06 IMEI Aug 09 00:01:28 Right. Aug 09 00:01:29 Or BT, indeed, if that's unique. Aug 09 00:01:31 I think I talked about using/basing on the BT MAC, which is also unique id inside neos Aug 09 00:01:43 but you know, whichever Aug 09 00:03:02 Yeah. Aug 09 00:03:55 There is even a moderately good argument for using the SIM number. Aug 09 00:04:26 There is? Aug 09 00:04:42 MAC portability between neos. Aug 09 00:05:04 Ok - I can't see why it'd be a good idea, but it's an argument. Aug 09 00:05:14 Neither can I :) Aug 09 00:05:17 And I'm trying. Aug 09 00:05:24 No plausible scenario comes to mind. Aug 09 00:05:41 It makes a lot of sense to use the SIM as an ID for syncing. Aug 09 00:06:01 So having the ID presented by the DHCP client be the SIM number actually makes a ton of sense. Aug 09 00:06:30 That way if you swap SIM cards you get a different IP address. Aug 09 00:07:07 Welll. Aug 09 00:07:33 There's a dhcp client running alongside the usb ether emulator? Aug 09 00:07:59 don't see it Aug 09 00:08:02 How else would it get an IP address? I don't know, I just assumed that's what it was doing. Aug 09 00:08:02 running Aug 09 00:08:07 static I assume Aug 09 00:08:18 That can't really work. Aug 09 00:08:28 Sure it can. Aug 09 00:08:28 OIC, you're just configuring it manually. Aug 09 00:08:36 Well, that works fine for us geeks. Aug 09 00:08:39 I have no dhcpd. Aug 09 00:08:47 or anything else running on my net Aug 09 00:08:52 I wrote it - let me know if you need help getting it going. Aug 09 00:08:54 ;') Aug 09 00:09:00 so that's the only way it could have known its own address Aug 09 00:09:03 Meh. Aug 09 00:09:15 mellon: You wrote what? dhcpd? Aug 09 00:09:17 one has to actually ask the question, that should the Neo run a DHCP server to give the host an address, for non-geeks... Aug 09 00:09:21 remembering last octet has worked for me for a while :) Aug 09 00:09:53 You mean so that you plug it in, and can talk over the GPRS? Aug 09 00:09:57 mjr, imho it should. Aug 09 00:10:05 SpeedEvil, yup. Aug 09 00:10:07 SpeedEvil, would be cool. Aug 09 00:10:18 That's what I'm planning. Probably makes sense out of the box. Aug 09 00:10:25 You plug it in and you have a network. Aug 09 00:10:27 With password. Aug 09 00:10:37 Password? Aug 09 00:10:47 you don't want someone plugging in your phone, and getting net. Aug 09 00:11:06 I'm perhaps a little extreme on this. Aug 09 00:11:18 yes you are Aug 09 00:11:25 Yes you are. Aug 09 00:11:31 I'd like to be able to lock the phone down so hard that it can't be reflashed if the passphrase is forgotten. Aug 09 00:11:40 even via JTAG. Aug 09 00:11:49 SpeedEvil, you're a geek, you'll be able to. It's overkill for ordinary users. Aug 09 00:11:52 SpeedEvil: kinda hard to prevent JTAG... Aug 09 00:11:54 I'm a geek and I wouldn't use it. Aug 09 00:12:00 Not really. Aug 09 00:12:06 sure, put in a locked down mode where it doesn't talk to anything Aug 09 00:12:06 It needs additional hardware. Aug 09 00:12:10 good night! Aug 09 00:12:18 Or at least epoxy :) Aug 09 00:12:29 but if it's in a mode where you can make calls, it should be in a mode to have easy usbnet Aug 09 00:12:36 yeah. Aug 09 00:12:43 SpeedEvil: isn't just encrypting the whole flash enough? Aug 09 00:12:48 No. Aug 09 00:12:57 Someone steals my phone, I don't want them able to use it. Aug 09 00:12:59 At all. Aug 09 00:13:06 There should be a bodyguard coupon with the neo. Aug 09 00:13:13 even if they find someone able to reflash it. Aug 09 00:13:14 * cesarb is starting to wonder is SpeedEvil is the kind of people who would add C4 to his phone if he could Aug 09 00:13:22 anyway, there's a bit of trouble here with what the dhcp server should serve the host Aug 09 00:13:35 mjr, meaning? Aug 09 00:13:41 Which subnet? Aug 09 00:13:45 ok, pick a random local net and hope it doesn't interfere with other stuff the box might be connected to... Aug 09 00:13:51 mjr, yup. Aug 09 00:13:52 what if i plug it into my laptop which already has net Aug 09 00:13:57 default gateway? hmm... Aug 09 00:14:04 i don't want dhcp overwriting that Aug 09 00:14:08 mjr, remember that if you want net from gprs, you usually don't have network somewhere else. Aug 09 00:14:32 That's not completely true. Aug 09 00:14:33 but i may want to load software from my laptop rather than gprs Aug 09 00:14:44 I was _completely_ overloading my DSL connection - as a test. Aug 09 00:14:45 mmazur, this is a device you need to plug into USB to charge it, too... Aug 09 00:14:51 And GPRS was nice as an additional. Aug 09 00:15:45 mjr, sure, but (a) normal ppl use normal chargers, they don't carry notebooks around and (b) normal ppl don't have gprs turned on all the time, so misrouting is not such a big deal. Aug 09 00:16:02 Ok, strike b. Aug 09 00:16:14 We want a subnet even without gprs. Aug 09 00:16:15 yeah they hopefully will Aug 09 00:16:20 Think calendar syncs, etc. Aug 09 00:16:21 and yes we do Aug 09 00:17:14 I think the least sucky thing to do is that you need to tap an easily accessible setting before plugging in to have the phone serve up a default gw and named and stuff in addition to a network address Aug 09 00:17:45 you know, an "I'm plugging this in to have intterweb" knob Aug 09 00:18:05 does it make sense to ask for dhcp before serving it? Aug 09 00:18:16 Use cases ppl! Aug 09 00:18:22 Let's get some of those! :) Aug 09 00:18:30 If you get back a nameserver, then it's probable that you've got internet on the far side Aug 09 00:18:51 SpeedEvil, the point is that you don't want the nameserver or default route sometimes, and sometimes you do Aug 09 00:19:27 namely, sync/recharge/whatever should be minimal hassle, and the device should therefore serve up only a local subnet address Aug 09 00:19:27 Someone should write up use cases for this. Aug 09 00:19:35 Indeed. Aug 09 00:20:00 and if you're gonna go on-line, tap something on the phone to signal the internal dhcp server to give dns and gateway on next hookup Aug 09 00:20:24 mjr, or, when tapping to go online, get asked whether you want your laptop to also be online. Aug 09 00:20:44 (and don't get asked if you don't have a laptop connected) Aug 09 00:20:56 what if you have a workstation connected? Aug 09 00:21:02 yeah or that, but if it's already hooked up, can the dhcp server feed the host with new data on-the-fly? Aug 09 00:21:32 Beats me. Aug 09 00:21:45 I mean, if you already have just a local subnet, can the dhcp server suddenly hook up with the client and go "oh yeah, I want you to set default route and nameservers now too" Aug 09 00:21:47 http://www.mphone.co.uk/acatalog/htc-6300.html Aug 09 00:21:54 hmm, OTOH Aug 09 00:21:56 does that phone suffer from the same AT&T sim issues? Aug 09 00:22:04 it has Ti calypso Aug 09 00:22:12 which is the gsm modem the neo uses, right? Aug 09 00:22:13 there's no problem because you can run the interface down, then up again, and serve up the gw and dns Aug 09 00:22:19 * mjr slaps face Aug 09 00:23:24 so yeah, it can be done like that... "Go online" "Seems you have a laptop, wanna browse with that?" "Yeah sure", ifdown && ifup Aug 09 00:23:37 well, a host anyway Aug 09 00:23:57 (point from Vegar there that it's not always gonna be a laptop) Aug 09 00:24:28 there are endless possibilities Aug 09 00:24:35 aand if plugged in to a host while network is up... what, ask again? Aug 09 00:24:48 Could even be another neo :) Aug 09 00:24:50 anyone has got the linksys usb wifi thumb thing working (there is a FOSS Linux driver) Aug 09 00:24:52 morning Aug 09 00:25:07 s/anyone/wonder if anyone/ Aug 09 00:25:08 linux_galore meant: wonder if anyone has got the linksys usb wifi thumb thing working (there is a FOSS Linux driver) Aug 09 00:25:09 linux_galore: on the neo? Aug 09 00:25:14 yeah Aug 09 00:25:19 linux_galore: I don't think USB host mode works. Aug 09 00:25:20 hmm, initialize with just local settings immediately, and have a tap accessible that goes "hook up the host too" Aug 09 00:25:26 There is missing code. Aug 09 00:25:41 Well - usb host code does work - but only internally for BT Aug 09 00:26:14 SpeedEvil: shame, be a great way to do some wifi dev early Aug 09 00:26:33 should be a matter of code, but who's gonna do it? :] Aug 09 00:26:45 LaF0rge, our man Aug 09 00:27:00 mjr: well the driver is done its in 2.6.22 already Aug 09 00:27:00 umm, not in connection with the previous line ;] Aug 09 00:27:17 linux_galore: it wans't applied - at least recently. Aug 09 00:27:22 oh, I assumed SpeedEvil was up to speed Aug 09 00:27:26 there was missing code to flip pullups Aug 09 00:27:37 I don't know if that's changed this week. Aug 09 00:28:06 ++`` Aug 09 00:28:10 SpeedEvil: yeah I know its not in the OM kernel but it is in the official kernel Aug 09 00:28:50 The patch in the OM tree that I saw had stuff which might or might not make it not work in host mode. Aug 09 00:29:04 SpeedEvil: Ive talked to people running Ubuntu Gutsy and its working Aug 09 00:29:29 what do you mean by official kernel? Aug 09 00:29:54 SpeedEvil: the Linux core kernel Aug 09 00:30:02 I mean on what hardware Aug 09 00:30:15 SpeedEvil: PC Aug 09 00:30:25 It's got hardware specific stuff needing doing Aug 09 00:31:08 yeah i know but the driver is in the tree Aug 09 00:31:34 What driver - the s3c usb turn driver do you mean? Aug 09 00:34:02 * LaF0rge had to take sita down for administrative purpose Aug 09 00:37:24 mail machine regarding ordering? Aug 09 00:41:20 Okay, mokomakefile has completed, how do I run this? I can't see a binary. Aug 09 00:41:35 got a phone? Aug 09 00:42:05 No, I thought that mokomakefile built qemu. Aug 09 00:42:14 It does - run "make qemu-local" Aug 09 00:42:24 Thanks! Aug 09 00:42:43 (and then update the wiki documentation with that information in the place where you would have looked for it) Aug 09 00:43:21 http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/07/plane.monkey/ Aug 09 00:43:22 oops Aug 09 00:43:37 Mukunda_: you did read the mokomakefile wiki page before asking your question, right? Aug 09 00:43:52 Yup. Aug 09 00:44:13 Didn't see that, my fault. Aug 09 00:44:59 your penance is to add the "qemu-local" target documentation to that section - let me know when you've done that. Aug 09 00:54:02 that ml is stellar these days :) Aug 09 00:54:44 Stupid question - how do I set the phone to act as an internet gateway - and forward packets? Aug 09 00:56:49 Set up both interfaces, then sysctl -w net.ipv4.forward=1, I think. Aug 09 00:57:11 You can get the exact name by typing "sysctl -a |grep forward" - that's what I always do. Aug 09 00:58:05 abraxa_: yeah, I wrote dhcpd. Aug 09 00:58:18 Throw the rotten tomatoes at me. :') Aug 09 00:58:58 K Aug 09 00:59:03 Thanks Aug 09 00:59:25 np Aug 09 00:59:25 mellon: In that case I expect you to write a quality piece of code for the neo, too ;) Aug 09 01:00:16 I'm working on it. Aug 09 01:00:35 It's weird - I want to do UI work in a scheme-like language, and it turns out there's a guy the next town over who's doing the exact same thing. Aug 09 01:00:47 sysctl -a |grep forward Aug 09 01:00:47 net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1 Aug 09 01:00:54 should be on then? Aug 09 01:00:56 ah, then it should be forwarding. Aug 09 01:00:57 yes. Aug 09 01:01:01 Is it not? Aug 09 01:01:05 Hmm. Aug 09 01:01:27 Er, you may also need to set up NAT if you don't have routable addresses on both sides. Aug 09 01:02:18 Otherwise, packets will go one way, but not the other. Aug 09 01:02:37 Er, and you need to set up a default route on the machine that's on the far side of the router from the Internet. Aug 09 01:02:49 rwhitby: I'll get it done in a couple of hours, got to head off to work. Aug 09 01:03:20 So e.g. if you want to connect your laptop to the internet through your phone, you need to make sure that the laptop has a default route pointing at your phone, and no other default route. This is where dhcpd comes in handy... :') Aug 09 01:03:41 Mukunda_: I'll be looking for it. Most people when they say that they never do it - but I expect that you're not one of those people ;-) Aug 09 01:04:16 Yeah - I was just trying the trivial case - so I thought - point to point routes Aug 09 01:04:32 :-) I'll get it done, thanks. This is great! Aug 09 01:04:33 That'll get you to your phone, but no further. Aug 09 01:04:38 farther? Aug 09 01:04:40 Sigh. Aug 09 01:04:41 I thought it was just ip_forward on the neo, and setup a route so that the packets go from the phone to the net Aug 09 01:04:52 oh well. Aug 09 01:05:06 I need to read stuff :) Aug 09 01:05:30 'it worked like this when I used it in 2.4' Aug 09 01:05:41 If you just want to get to the net from your phone, you don't need to turn on forwarding. Aug 09 01:05:59 I've got the net on the phone. Aug 09 01:06:03 ok Aug 09 01:06:07 But a sharply limited number of client apps. Aug 09 01:06:08 :) Aug 09 01:06:21 So you do want to connect from your laptop through the phone to the internet? Aug 09 01:06:25 SpeedEvil: you've got ssh - that's all you need Aug 09 01:07:08 On your laptop, type "route add default gw --neo-ip-address--" where the last part is your Neo's IP address. Aug 09 01:07:14 mellon: basically. I was just testing quickly before reading up on how it should be done Aug 09 01:07:16 If your laptop is running OSX, leave out "gw". Aug 09 01:07:27 I've done that - for a route to one host Aug 09 01:07:38 * SpeedEvil tries default Aug 09 01:07:42 ah. then it's the nat that you need, probably. Aug 09 01:07:53 otherwise the internet has no idea how to route to the source address you've given your Mac. Aug 09 01:07:58 How does one open mail? I think it might be open, but the text is nigh invisible. Aug 09 01:08:01 Er, your laptop. Little slip of the tongue there. Aug 09 01:12:24 Yeah - I'm getting ARP traffic over USB0 and nothing else Aug 09 01:12:28 Oh well. Aug 09 01:15:33 SpeedEvil: do you have only one default route? Aug 09 01:16:16 When that was happening, yes. Aug 09 01:16:27 Deleted the 'normal' route to the interwebs. Aug 09 01:17:03 are there any tricks to getting your Linux box to recognize the USB device for DFU flashing? Aug 09 01:17:07 "No DFU capable USB device found" Aug 09 01:17:13 by the way, with the addition of the new graphics chip, does that mean the neo will have accelerated graphics? Aug 09 01:17:31 yes Aug 09 01:18:14 rtyler: did you do the aux button on boot trick? Aug 09 01:18:25 yeah, I hit u-Boot no problem Aug 09 01:18:33 It should 'just work' Aug 09 01:18:36 doc|home: yes Aug 09 01:18:36 do you need to select "Set console output to USB" or something? Aug 09 01:18:40 no Aug 09 01:18:49 ccnet% uname -a Aug 09 01:18:49 Linux ccnet 2.6.20-15-generic #2 SMP Sun Apr 15 07:36:31 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux Aug 09 01:18:52 when in uboot, it should appear as a DFU device Aug 09 01:18:52 ccnet% cat /etc/issue Aug 09 01:18:53 SpeedEvil: thanks Aug 09 01:18:54 lsusb Aug 09 01:18:55 Ubuntu 7.04 Aug 09 01:19:05 Mukunda: looks like you'll get accelerated graphics after all :) Aug 09 01:19:40 ccnet% lsusb Aug 09 01:19:40 Bus 001 Device 012: ID 413c:2005 Dell Computer Corp. Aug 09 01:19:40 Bus 001 Device 003: ID 046d:c016 Logitech, Inc. M-UV69a Optical Wheel Mouse Aug 09 01:19:40 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Aug 09 01:19:40 Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Aug 09 01:19:43 craps Aug 09 01:19:51 unplug, replug Aug 09 01:20:05 no change Aug 09 01:20:06 does usb ethernet come up eventually? Aug 09 01:20:06 hrm Aug 09 01:20:12 AHA! Aug 09 01:20:16 Bus 001 Device 025: ID 1457:5119 Aug 09 01:20:27 still no DFU capable USB device found Aug 09 01:20:38 cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 Aug 09 01:20:46 that's the serial device I think Aug 09 01:21:14 woot, some unplug repluggery worked Aug 09 01:22:04 Hi folks, THis is a bit off-topic but I need some help. I am not getting any emails from openmoko so if I got a response to mine about an Aug 09 01:22:45 invalid tracking number it has not arrived. So I have found from UPS that their Western Australian agent is AustMail, but I dont Aug 09 01:22:50 SpeedEvil: I think I got it, moving the rootfs over now Aug 09 01:23:20 know what might be on the package to show where it came from. Can anyone give me that information please? Aug 09 01:24:12 :) Aug 09 01:24:20 rtyler: takes several mins Aug 09 01:24:32 Ok guys, based on our discussion, I made a short writeup of proposed USBnet policies for the final product, with some use cases to back the policies' saneness up on the USB Networking talk page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:USB_Networking Aug 09 01:24:35 yeah yeah, I'm at about 10 hashes :P Aug 09 01:24:37 Been charged clare? Aug 09 01:24:47 Clare, the label says: Aug 09 01:24:59 (510) 683 2915 Aug 09 01:25:06 FICA OPENMOKO Aug 09 01:25:10 yes, Aug 7 (but time differeces make exact date-time difficult :) Aug 09 01:25:14 5020 BRANDIN COURT Aug 09 01:25:33 FREMONT, CA 94538-3140 Aug 09 01:25:55 mjr: out of curiosity, why 192.168.19.0/24, instead of say, link-local addresses? Aug 09 01:25:57 That's it. Aug 09 01:26:14 mellon: that is great, thank you so much, I might even be able to ring them and get a sensible tracking number Aug 09 01:26:24 w00t! Aug 09 01:26:34 they're in Fremont? Aug 09 01:26:38 I should go say hi :P Aug 09 01:26:40 Heh Aug 09 01:26:47 I'm sure they'd *love* a visit... :') Aug 09 01:27:06 "Can I have a debug board, pleeeaassseee?" Aug 09 01:27:09 "Could you just label those boxes over there please? And schlep that pile over there?" Aug 09 01:27:18 rtyler, mostly because those are some newfangled nonsense and I didn't recall if they existed Aug 09 01:27:42 mjr: sounds mostley sane Aug 09 01:27:44 mjr: what do you mean, newfangled nonsense? Aug 09 01:27:49 So am I, but UPS have some rather horrid policies like if they cant deliver ( how many times) they send the package back :( Aug 09 01:29:01 mjr: one thing to think about Aug 09 01:29:10 mjr: has anybody started working on ActiveSync-esque applications for OpenMoko? i.e. for syncing all this funness ;) Aug 09 01:29:23 mjr: is how all that is going to work when the Neo also has wifi Aug 09 01:29:39 rtyler: rsync? :) Aug 09 01:29:50 SpeedEvil: that's so user friendly ;) Aug 09 01:30:14 * pjz thought he saw somehting early on about FIC allying with some sync provider that does that open-protocol sync that I can't think of Aug 09 01:30:18 rtyler, newfangled as in link-local addresses only came into being like, 5 years ago. I can't be aware of their presence intuitively. Aug 09 01:30:24 Motorola calls it 'OTA' but it's really something else Aug 09 01:31:02 mjr: *cough* bonjour/avahi *cough* :) Aug 09 01:31:07 multicast FTW Aug 09 01:31:09 mellon I dont want to hassle them and it is getting late in CA now. I will try the local company today. Bye all for now I am at work. Aug 09 01:31:17 rtyler, yeah yeah I know Aug 09 01:31:26 OM2007.2 images and packages are uploading to http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ now Aug 09 01:32:03 mjr: use cases are missing BT related use cases Aug 09 01:32:39 * SpeedEvil plays with FF displaying on neo, using SOCKS+ssh to talk over GPRS. Aug 09 01:32:46 It's not _horrible_. Aug 09 01:32:52 FF? Aug 09 01:32:54 google-maps works basically acceptably. Aug 09 01:32:57 FireFox Aug 09 01:33:01 ! Aug 09 01:33:16 is you prepaid SIM on fire yet? Aug 09 01:33:16 Writchie, good point Aug 09 01:33:34 I have free internet for 5 days more. Aug 09 01:33:46 mjr: and you should plan for 802.11 too since it'll be here in October Aug 09 01:33:53 yeah yeah Aug 09 01:33:56 t-mobile-UK - if you buy a cheap pre-paid phone, you get 10 days free internet Aug 09 01:34:06 mjr: and UMA Aug 09 01:34:16 it's half past four here, I can't think of everything right away :] Aug 09 01:34:16 mjr: have you use an N770? Aug 09 01:34:18 and then it's capped at 136K/1 pound /day Aug 09 01:34:58 well, as long as the defaults are configurable, I'll be happy Aug 09 01:35:04 houston, we have UI Aug 09 01:35:11 and if I'm not, I'll just rip their guts out until I am :) Aug 09 01:35:49 SpeedEvil: do they have a deal for unlimited, or is it strictly metered? Aug 09 01:35:57 top Aug 09 01:35:59 oops Aug 09 01:36:05 It's 7p/kb till you hit 1 pound. Aug 09 01:36:10 Then it's capped. Aug 09 01:36:16 Well. Aug 09 01:36:21 there is a fair use of 40M/day Aug 09 01:36:27 ah, so max about 30 pounds/month. Aug 09 01:36:34 hm, that's easy to blow through with IMAP. Aug 09 01:36:37 yes. Aug 09 01:37:02 Indeed. Aug 09 01:37:10 That's quite expensive. Aug 09 01:37:12 mjr: you have a good start. I'm thinking we need a pretty elaborate reference model, NEO, other phone, other NEO, laptop, desktop, home AP, work AP, work workstation, etc. Aug 09 01:37:16 Well. Aug 09 01:37:23 I haven't found a cheaper one in the UK. Aug 09 01:37:29 Even contract isn't actually cheaper. Aug 09 01:37:32 You could move to the U.S. :') Aug 09 01:37:50 As the cheapest contract is 20 quid/mo. + 7.50 for 1G/mo internet Aug 09 01:38:16 Oh, right, you don't have to pay voice. That's not so bad, then. Aug 09 01:38:30 pay voice? Aug 09 01:38:35 pay for voice Aug 09 01:38:50 is there a recommended way for shutting down/restarting the device cleaning? Aug 09 01:38:52 With the pay-as-you-go SIM, you do. Aug 09 01:38:54 hard resets scare me Aug 09 01:39:07 rtyler: power off using the menu from the power button Aug 09 01:39:28 rtyler: then if you need it to not drain the battery, you need to pull the battery, and reinsert it. Aug 09 01:39:33 neo reset is pop cover, remove battery, count to 10, re-insert battery Aug 09 01:39:42 nono, I mean you don't have to pay for voice that you aren't using. Aug 09 01:39:43 Othewise it'll drain it in a dayish. Aug 09 01:39:54 Ah, yes. Aug 09 01:39:59 nice reset :P Aug 09 01:40:05 Or incoming calls. Aug 09 01:40:07 standard master reset Aug 09 01:40:37 I'm off to sleep, I left some open questions on the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:USB_Networking page Aug 09 01:40:48 may return to that later Aug 09 01:40:52 Writchie: there is a faster procedure documented on the wiki. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Robustness Aug 09 01:41:47 Eeeh - someone drowned a neo. Aug 09 01:42:34 any documents on inserting a bloody SIM card? Aug 09 01:42:48 my experience with handset immersion is much worse than this Aug 09 01:42:50 which way does it go! >_< Aug 09 01:42:57 insert with the notch out Aug 09 01:43:07 there is a video on the wiki Aug 09 01:43:08 and the contacts facing the pads Aug 09 01:43:16 never did get to work for more than a few minutes afterword Aug 09 01:43:28 it slides into the cover Aug 09 01:43:48 Writchie: was the blood virigin blood, because that's the only sort that really helps. Aug 09 01:44:06 there seem to be exactly one million different sim card holders in the world! Aug 09 01:44:16 haw, probably from a chicken Aug 09 01:44:22 every single motorola phone is different Aug 09 01:45:37 jaebird: aha, thanks Aug 09 01:45:52 this thing is a bit smalll for my fingers, so I didn't want to break anything :P Aug 09 01:46:00 you are not joking Aug 09 01:46:42 the only fully americanised SIM holder is the sliding kind, which unfortunately needs a bit of room. Aug 09 01:47:23 anybody gotten there's working with Cingular? :P Aug 09 01:47:39 I think it's the flimsiest 'consumer facing' socket I've found. Aug 09 01:48:12 the neo or the sliding one? Aug 09 01:48:33 the neo Aug 09 01:48:44 exceeded only by the micro SD Aug 09 01:49:04 MTBCD 47 seconds Aug 09 01:49:15 mean time before consumer destruction Aug 09 01:49:26 I bent it at first, not expecting the microSD to slide in Aug 09 01:49:43 and had to re-bend it before it'd work properly. Aug 09 01:49:59 me to, but not enough to damage it. Aug 09 01:50:10 it is similar looking to pop covers Aug 09 01:50:19 i did not expect to have to insert it Aug 09 01:50:25 rtyler, I'm working with Cingular, but using an old 2G sim Aug 09 01:51:58 working with, or have working ;) Aug 09 01:52:19 rtyler, sorry. Have working, as far as the software allows.... Aug 09 01:52:33 I made calls today. Aug 09 01:52:36 Test calls, that is. Aug 09 01:52:37 hah, nice Aug 09 01:52:47 I have no idea how good or bad my SIM is Aug 09 01:52:57 Check out the wiki page.... Aug 09 01:53:16 link? :D Aug 09 01:53:23 jaebird, what's the wiki page? Aug 09 01:53:29 (looking for it) Aug 09 01:53:56 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 09 01:54:00 that one? Aug 09 01:54:03 Yup Aug 09 01:54:51 LaF0rge: Is there an 850 problem or just paperwork screwup? Aug 09 01:56:15 i'm thinking about a google map with pins for people that have debug boards that are willing to de-brick neos. thoughts??? Aug 09 01:56:24 can you guys with the non working simcards make a photo of them and send them to moko@mobile.nibbler.de Aug 09 01:56:36 WOOT! Aug 09 01:56:37 i'd like to gather all details about it Aug 09 01:56:51 * nibbler_de already ordered a batch of test simcards from oberthurcs and gemalto Aug 09 01:56:54 62095 32K GT Aug 09 01:57:15 nibbler_de: there is a list on the wiki page above Aug 09 01:57:51 it includes all known info about the sim cards in question Aug 09 01:57:55 oh Aug 09 01:57:59 somebody did it already. Aug 09 01:58:01 great ; Aug 09 01:58:02 ;) Aug 09 01:58:16 although images may be cool, the "badge" description sort of does that already Aug 09 01:58:30 I can take a picture of mine :D Aug 09 01:58:33 yours truly started it Aug 09 01:58:42 bug id 666 - yeah right. ;) Aug 09 01:58:46 but many have since added them Aug 09 01:58:50 nibbler_de: you could coalesce that into a large page, just like, SIM_Cards Aug 09 01:58:57 go by network/provider Aug 09 01:59:24 the problem is that the details on that page don't help much with identifying the actual model of the card Aug 09 01:59:38 such as SIMphonIC 3G or gemalto expresso Aug 09 02:00:59 the back of each of the newer sim cards have the sku and vender/version info, the cingular silkscreen will not give any more info Aug 09 02:01:20 it is just fancy orange and blue artwork Aug 09 02:02:16 hrm, it seems all the images have broken on the "desktop" Aug 09 02:02:25 i'd be interested in pictures as they at least help identifying the vendor Aug 09 02:02:52 vendors use different patterns of the metal plate contacts Aug 09 02:03:13 nibbler_de: The vendor code is in the table Aug 09 02:03:18 rtyler, reboot. Sometimes that happens. Are you in qemu? Aug 09 02:03:25 no,on the device Aug 09 02:03:32 jaebird: how is it determined? Aug 09 02:03:53 the 5 digit sku is followed by a letter code Aug 09 02:04:33 yeah - but where does that information come from? Aug 09 02:04:34 rtyler, just shutdown and restart or "/etc/init.d/xserver-ndom restart" (or whatever it's called) Aug 09 02:04:44 from the sim card itself Aug 09 02:05:27 jaebird: do you point a gun at it and threaten it? Aug 09 02:05:53 nibbler_de: the 3G sim cards have the info on the sim card Aug 09 02:06:33 sagacis: can I run that from the terminal on the device :D Aug 09 02:06:41 is the gsm modem capable of querying that information? Aug 09 02:06:48 Yup, but you have to type carefully. Aug 09 02:07:03 nibbler_de: the 2g card that i got off of ebay had the info on the sim card holder that it came with Aug 09 02:07:39 uhuh - they usually print their logo in a corner Aug 09 02:08:28 you know that interface with like, the wheel in the bottom left Aug 09 02:08:32 don't know what to tell you, but these US sim cards have no other markings on them Aug 09 02:08:36 how the frak do you get out of that Aug 09 02:08:55 which is why we setup a table to help make sense out of the problem, is it a particular vender, sku, version, etc... Aug 09 02:09:36 rtyler: right bottom button I think Aug 09 02:10:19 I'll have to see if I can get some interface designer guys to help out on this ;) Aug 09 02:10:33 there's definitely some places that need some help Aug 09 02:11:39 nibbler_de: why the interest? are there non at&t cards having similar problems elsewhere? Aug 09 02:14:23 OK, so I called my other cell phone and got my voicemail. How do I hang up? Aug 09 02:14:40 sagacis: slam the Neo down on the table Aug 09 02:14:44 it'll hang up :) Aug 09 02:14:47 ath Aug 09 02:15:22 I'm from the dialer Aug 09 02:15:27 Pop the battery? Aug 09 02:15:35 3 minutes into the call... Aug 09 02:15:49 sagacis: you can go back in the dialer I thought Aug 09 02:15:51 Guess I'll see if I can get into it from the shell Aug 09 02:15:52 I called a coworker and hung up Aug 09 02:15:56 can't remember how Aug 09 02:15:58 but it in an RF shielded room Aug 09 02:16:17 jaebird: i don't know yet - but that's what i'd like to find out Aug 09 02:16:27 s/but/put/ Aug 09 02:16:27 jaebird meant: put it in an RF shielded room Aug 09 02:17:01 jaebird: i got a person at oberthurcs that will provide me with any and all cards they sell and be able to tell me to whom they sell it Aug 09 02:17:03 nibbler_de: ok...there might have been someone from NZ having problems last week, can't remember who Aug 09 02:17:31 * sagacis is watching my minutes drift away.... Aug 09 02:17:42 I bought the woot Aug 09 02:17:47 the more important step would then be to get in touch with the respective operator and discuss a replacement of the simcards of the users that have problems Aug 09 02:17:49 jaebird: oh that's comforting to know.. Aug 09 02:17:50 nibbler_de: there are a couple of those on the list Aug 09 02:18:32 as every operator of a certain size usually has more than one vendor Aug 09 02:18:33 ajmitch: it may have been user error :) Aug 09 02:18:55 damnit, rebooted, still no bloody images Aug 09 02:19:26 jaebird: well there's only vodafone which uses gsm here in NZ :) Aug 09 02:19:49 nibbler_de: at&t uses several, Oberthur Card Systems, Gemalto (formerly Gemplus), Axalto, Giesecke & Devrient Aug 09 02:20:05 ajmitch: that was the provider they were trying to use... Aug 09 02:20:10 exactly Aug 09 02:20:19 of course, that's the only one they could use :) Aug 09 02:20:24 i wish i remembered who it was Aug 09 02:20:34 * ajmitch might find out in a week or two if it works or not Aug 09 02:21:24 seems like Gemalto is the biggest sim card offender on the list Aug 09 02:21:29 :) Aug 09 02:22:11 sagacis: hope the woot is dipped in alcohol ;) Aug 09 02:28:55 gnite Aug 09 02:53:54 woot, my compiler just compiled itself for the first time! Aug 09 02:54:09 :) Aug 09 02:54:30 now to see if it generated correct code... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 09 02:59:57 2007