**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 10 02:59:57 2007 Aug 10 03:00:14 man, i need a bt keyboard! Aug 10 03:00:26 The new apple one is sweet. Aug 10 03:01:19 how does the kb pair with the Neo? Aug 10 03:01:27 is BT on by default? Aug 10 03:01:40 Doesn't seem to be. You probably need to do it from the command line. Aug 10 03:01:43 I haven't figured it out yet. Aug 10 03:01:55 DukeOfURL: you need hcid iirc Aug 10 03:01:59 The kernel seems to have the modules loaded, but they're probably powered off. Aug 10 03:02:09 http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/images/ :-D Aug 10 03:02:39 DukeOfURL: on debian you have to edit something on /etc/default to enable the loading of the daemon on /etc/init.d, don't know how it's done on the neo Aug 10 03:02:56 k Aug 10 03:03:07 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Pre-built_snapshot_images ... Aug 10 03:03:33 so, if these people can get the image to regularly build.... Aug 10 03:03:44 i suppose i can't because i am relying on the makefiles? Aug 10 03:03:55 cesarb: It's the same. Aug 10 03:04:37 chekin" out the woo Aug 10 03:04:54 Er, the /etc/default/bluetooth file sets HID2HCI_ENABLE=true Aug 10 03:05:43 I haven't seen a decent linux UI for pairing, though. bluez supports pairing and bonding, but actually making it happen is another story. Aug 10 03:09:58 daMaestro: the nslu2-linux feed builds every 15 minutes (when the previous build is finished) Aug 10 03:11:53 Hm, I don't see any actual evidence of a bluetooth controller while poking around with today's 2007.2 build. Aug 10 03:12:49 you mean an app? Aug 10 03:12:57 No, I mean a device. Aug 10 03:13:10 lsusb only shows one device. Aug 10 03:13:17 you neeed to turn it on Aug 10 03:13:28 htere is a power enable in proc Aug 10 03:13:33 can't turn it on if I don't find its power setting. Aug 10 03:13:43 find /sys/ -name "*bt*" Aug 10 03:13:55 OK, that was fun for a while, but ugh so hard to type Aug 10 03:14:16 ah, look at that. Aug 10 03:14:49 /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on Aug 10 03:15:26 ooh, that did it! Aug 10 03:15:27 whee! Aug 10 03:16:53 hm, of course it's not seeing any other bluetooth devices. Aug 10 03:17:21 ah, now it is. yay! Aug 10 03:17:58 :) Aug 10 03:18:59 rwhitby, i'm getting tons of issues with the makefile Aug 10 03:20:19 rwhitby, http://dpaste.com/16528/ Aug 10 03:20:53 i just started from scratch .... this is the result Aug 10 03:21:20 Did you look in /home/jon/OM2007.2/openmoko/tmp/work/i686-linux/autoconf-native-2.61-r0/temp/log.do_compile.19482 ? Aug 10 03:21:29 (I bet it says that you should install help2man) Aug 10 03:22:59 rwhitby, very much so Aug 10 03:29:18 Has anybody compiled a better web browser, or is the one in 2007.2 any better? Aug 10 03:30:07 rwhitby, thanks... building now; issues i had in the past were: http://dpaste.com/16509/ ...which was gtk+ failing: http://dpaste.com/16510/ Aug 10 03:31:00 make update got me to the help2man issue, trying to get past that no Aug 10 03:31:00 w Aug 10 03:31:21 yess..... http://neo1973.mobi Aug 10 03:38:18 how do i recalibrate the touch screen? Aug 10 03:38:39 xtscal Aug 10 03:39:58 thanks Aug 10 03:42:25 rwhitby, so you are involved with nslu2-linux.org? Aug 10 03:43:24 rwhitby, if so.. you guys really should fix the mod_autoindex for http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ .. or minimally give us a symlink to the latest image? Aug 10 03:48:31 less doesnt seem to work Aug 10 03:48:35 in my ssh terminal Aug 10 03:49:16 daMaestro: I run the project. I'll get our webmaster to look at it. Aug 10 03:50:39 cool, good work (per running the project) Aug 10 03:53:02 trying a different client Aug 10 03:57:31 Hmm. Aug 10 03:59:50 The 'run it to battery depletion' seems to cut off early. Aug 10 04:00:03 According to the 'battvolt' output - it stops at 3V Aug 10 04:11:50 hmm put a mini webserver on you OM (GTA02) so people can connect and leave/get info without hassling you Aug 10 04:12:44 over wifi Aug 10 04:14:31 just a thought as so many phones are coming out with wifi now Aug 10 04:15:30 daMaestro: fixed (worked out how to do it myself) Aug 10 04:17:43 even more fun out irc server on the OM and people all over the office can send messages Aug 10 04:17:47 put* Aug 10 04:20:00 rwhitby, thanks.. soooo much better Aug 10 04:22:54 the OM changes how your view of a mobile if you think about it, its not a mobile phone anymore its anything you want it to be webserver/irc server/dns server, bit more grunt even a smb server Aug 10 04:25:12 BT printer -> fax gateway, ... Aug 10 04:25:23 * SpeedEvil wonders if there are bluetooth fax machines. Aug 10 04:26:52 linux_galore: note that most cell networks are behind a NAT, so being able to connect will probably only be a local thing - and may not work at all even locally. Aug 10 04:27:24 Which is usually a good thing. Especially where data is expensive. Aug 10 04:27:32 ah, you're thinking wifi adhoc or AP on the Neo, not GPRS. Aug 10 04:27:41 (to linux_galore that was) Aug 10 04:30:42 rwhitby: Im thinking between wifi devices Aug 10 04:31:03 oi vei Aug 10 04:31:46 rwhitby: so people can chat and swap stuff without having to go through network Aug 10 04:33:05 rwhitby: imagine going to a lecture and saying to the patrons you can get a copy of this talk and associated file of my OM via wifi Aug 10 04:34:16 the LUG I go to already does that to some degree via hacked linksys router sitting near the conference desk Aug 10 04:35:45 I got my N95 to connect months ago and grabbed some files of a presenters machine Aug 10 04:35:53 2 months* Aug 10 04:37:50 Im just thinking it would be cool to make the OM not just open to use but open to swap information very easily between all wifi enabled phones/pc Aug 10 04:38:26 this is were normal phones fall down Aug 10 04:42:12 koen was talking about something awhile ago, that he wished could be put in OE, written by a couple of guys at novell that did seemingly what your'e talking about Aug 10 04:42:26 I don't remember what it was called though Aug 10 04:45:01 as great as my N95 is to use a $200 pc with wifi running Linux leaves it for dead for the ability to share information Aug 10 04:45:17 [A Aug 10 04:45:57 sorry. funny lit Aug 10 04:46:05 hmm Aug 10 04:46:39 anyway, of to work Aug 10 04:49:55 off to bed 4 me Aug 10 04:51:20 sagacis_neo: are you IRCing from your neo O_o Aug 10 05:04:38 hmm the new boot screen is sexy Aug 10 05:06:14 daMaestro: this one? http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/1057454094/ Aug 10 05:07:04 rtyler, nope Aug 10 05:07:14 is there a newer build? O_O Aug 10 05:07:21 or is it a custom build of yours? Aug 10 05:08:18 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Pre-built_snapshot_images Aug 10 05:08:29 i am building it.. but the first build takes ages Aug 10 05:11:27 gooood morning vie^H^H^H#openmoko :) Aug 10 05:11:58 though... the image wont get past the boot loader it seems Aug 10 05:12:12 mickey's image? Aug 10 05:12:41 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ the latest there Aug 10 05:13:14 do we have a buildserver setup yet? :P Aug 10 05:13:37 i don't think there are any om2007.2 "official" builds Aug 10 05:14:03 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ looks to still be the case Aug 10 05:14:13 moin Aug 10 05:47:06 daMaestro, does that 10 AUG build work? Aug 10 05:47:29 it locks up at the end of the loading screen on mine Aug 10 05:48:54 Psi, same here Aug 10 05:49:26 Psi, does the aug 9 build work? Aug 10 05:52:10 dont know, downloading now Aug 10 06:00:28 Psi: do a nand rootfs erase Aug 10 06:00:30 first Aug 10 06:00:40 so what is the purpose of the -moko10 and -moko11 extraversion in the kernel version Aug 10 06:00:45 ? Aug 10 06:00:45 i was having exact same issue with another mikey build Aug 10 06:00:57 xkr47: which patchset version is used Aug 10 06:01:05 aha ok thx Aug 10 06:01:10 *updating wiki* :) Aug 10 06:01:37 xzcvczx, where do i type that? Aug 10 06:01:53 Psi: you need to turn on thing on usb in u-boot Aug 10 06:02:01 Psi, you need to connect into the uboot shell Aug 10 06:02:18 then you need to do cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 into the host machine Aug 10 06:02:21 and then type it in there Aug 10 06:02:37 Psi: read it on Flashing your 1973 Aug 10 06:02:38 i've been doing: nand erase clean rootfs Aug 10 06:02:49 and also: nand erase clean kernel Aug 10 06:03:01 daMaestro: thats not correct syntax is it Aug 10 06:03:09 afaik it is Aug 10 06:03:10 set console to USB ? Aug 10 06:03:12 xzcvczx, is the rootfs patchset-specific in any other way than the modules in /lib/modules/ ? Aug 10 06:03:37 xkr47: not really Aug 10 06:03:41 Psi: correct Aug 10 06:03:41 thx Aug 10 06:03:54 Psi: you will need the correct modules in your host's kernel Aug 10 06:04:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#NAND Aug 10 06:04:05 daMaestro: are you talking about 2007.2 rootfs Aug 10 06:04:26 is it not the same? Aug 10 06:04:39 daMaestro: well are you? Aug 10 06:04:39 i mean it is still the same uboot that was shipped with the device Aug 10 06:04:42 man, 2007.2 looks great, too bad openmoko-today crashes shortly after loading >_> Aug 10 06:04:43 yes Aug 10 06:04:54 daMaestro: yeah i was having same problems Aug 10 06:05:07 daMaestro: just try it using nand erase rootfs Aug 10 06:05:15 i just did it Aug 10 06:05:17 it works. Aug 10 06:05:25 Psi: sorry its nand erase rootfs Aug 10 06:05:27 nand erase clean rootfs Aug 10 06:05:30 not what i said before Aug 10 06:05:56 daMaestro: meh i am sure that clean is probably the same i dunno what it does differently Aug 10 06:06:15 nand erase [clean] [off size] - erase `size' bytes from Aug 10 06:06:15 offset `off' (entire device if not specified) Aug 10 06:06:18 not sure either Aug 10 06:06:28 yeah i saw that but it doesnt explain what the difference is Aug 10 06:08:22 daMaestro, did you erase your nand before when you got the same error as me? Aug 10 06:08:34 ie. the crash Aug 10 06:08:38 Psi, yes... using the latest image Aug 10 06:09:49 Psi: i think thats a no Aug 10 06:10:03 * Psi is confused Aug 10 06:10:39 Psi: well its working now since he erased his flash so i am pretty sure it should work Aug 10 06:11:00 ah Aug 10 06:11:01 ok Aug 10 06:11:18 Psi: as everyone i have seen who has erased before flash has worked.... well then you get idiots like SpeedEvil i think it was who flashed 40mb rootfs into the kernel space Aug 10 06:11:27 Psi, it is not working for me. to be clear. Aug 10 06:11:46 daMaestro: oh i thought you said it did work Aug 10 06:11:50 xzcvczx, haha, what did that do Aug 10 06:12:19 Psi: well after he flashed a kernel back into kernel space and the rootfs into its respective space it worked Aug 10 06:12:30 daMaestro, ok, no point in me doing an erase and trying it again then Aug 10 06:12:33 * Psi tries 09 Aug 10 06:13:26 xzcvczx, thats good to know, i was wondering what would happen if ya did that Aug 10 06:14:06 could be worse tho, if ya flashed the rootfs/kernel into the boot space :P Aug 10 06:14:46 yeah, without a jtag board... you would brick your device if you b0rked uboot Aug 10 06:15:03 Psi: we would be screwed hence why i am definately going to get advanced for 02 Aug 10 06:15:38 Psi, how soon will you have your device flashed? Aug 10 06:15:46 its about 60% Aug 10 06:16:02 ok, then i'll wait to see if it boots for you Aug 10 06:18:33 hmm my power switch is starting to stick Aug 10 06:18:36 kinda annoying Aug 10 06:18:40 :O Aug 10 06:19:38 fucking hell, with the latest image of mickey's, the device froze and won' Aug 10 06:19:41 t turn off Aug 10 06:19:57 ok, i have that issue also Aug 10 06:20:24 daMaestro: lemme know if you figure it out Aug 10 06:20:39 when I was young, a friend of my family's used to use the word mickey for penis :( Aug 10 06:20:54 it lends that sentence a whole new meaning Aug 10 06:24:05 fucking hell, is the only way to power the device down like this to pull the battery?: Aug 10 06:24:06 daMaestro, 09 works Aug 10 06:24:33 Psi_: link? Aug 10 06:24:52 Psi, awesome.. flashing now Aug 10 06:24:58 rtyler, http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070809-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 10 06:25:10 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin is the kernel Aug 10 06:25:55 hehe the dialer crashed when i clicked dial Aug 10 06:26:05 NO CALLS FOR YOU! ;) Aug 10 06:26:27 Psi, try restarting gsmd? Aug 10 06:27:20 the font is to big in terminal :( Aug 10 06:28:02 actually its wrapping around, so not too bad, atleast i can see what im typing Aug 10 06:29:14 nope Aug 10 06:29:36 daMaestro, i bet you will find the same thing, dialer will just close when you hit dial Aug 10 06:30:02 Psi_, i'll let you know when it is done flashing Aug 10 06:30:23 Psi_, you could test the 20070807 image ;-) Aug 10 06:30:47 is there any solitaire amongst all these games ive never heard of? Aug 10 06:30:52 what we *REALLY* need to do is have FIC setup an autobuild system similar to nslu2-linux.org and just tie it into a simple reporting system Aug 10 06:31:27 that just keeps spitting out images once a day and then allows people to download them and rate/report if they work or not Aug 10 06:31:48 UGH Aug 10 06:31:52 im sure they will do something like that when they get all sorted in their building Aug 10 06:32:03 finding the right combination of reboot-replug to get dfu-util to find my fucking Neo is irritating Aug 10 06:32:18 last i heard they were still moving in Aug 10 06:32:45 what's the lowermost button in the 5-button mode switch panel to the right of the standard on-screen keyboard ? Aug 10 06:32:59 i always wondered that myself Aug 10 06:33:09 xkr47: that's the "Any" key :) Aug 10 06:33:13 it increases in color if you click it Aug 10 06:33:25 I noticed, but why ?-D Aug 10 06:33:45 maybe its supposed to control backlight Aug 10 06:34:03 dunno Aug 10 06:34:23 also clicking the power button has some strange effect, it seems to kill apps or then just turn the application part black for me (at least sometimes) Aug 10 06:34:51 hmm... /me is close to just setting up this damn rating system/hosting for OM images Aug 10 06:35:07 i'd really rather have it under the OM name.. and have signed images/sha1sum files, etf Aug 10 06:35:10 etc* Aug 10 06:35:40 wowow.... why no screen calibration? Aug 10 06:35:41 hehe my back to the future clip still plays fine in 09 under mplayer :) Aug 10 06:35:51 daMaestro: I can set that up, that's easy :) Aug 10 06:36:08 rtyler, do you work for OM? Aug 10 06:36:26 no, I work for a web company :P Aug 10 06:36:50 the point is a lot of people could do it.. and it needs to be done; allow community ratings of autobuilds; and i would much rather have FIC/OM do the builds Aug 10 06:37:10 ok, Psi_ i'll confirm the image works Aug 10 06:37:21 of course, but they're swamped it seems with "making the software work" :P Aug 10 06:37:24 nice, there are tabs now in the terminal Aug 10 06:37:28 hard to get build infrastructure in place wit hthat :P Aug 10 06:37:33 Psi_, but gsm association isn't working.. so that must be why the dialer is failing Aug 10 06:37:45 Psi_, there were tabs last release Aug 10 06:38:00 must have missed it Aug 10 06:38:19 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs Aug 10 06:38:26 the new menu is awesome. Aug 10 06:38:36 fingerbased and SMOOTH scrolling Aug 10 06:38:37 had you not seen 2007.2 before? Aug 10 06:38:38 good work Aug 10 06:38:46 no, i've been building just om2007 Aug 10 06:38:52 ah Aug 10 06:39:11 people might not laugh at me when i show them the interface Aug 10 06:39:11 lol Aug 10 06:39:17 heh Aug 10 06:39:30 nah, they still will, but that probably has more to do with your clown makeup :) Aug 10 06:39:40 ;-) Aug 10 06:42:05 cube is fun Aug 10 06:42:06 lol Aug 10 06:43:28 lol, yeah.. dialer/gsmd crashed matchbox for me Aug 10 06:43:38 overall newbuild++++ Aug 10 06:45:22 net is quite good too Aug 10 06:48:32 the kinetic menu thing still needs work, it seems to lag a bit Aug 10 06:49:12 better cpu/graphics on GTA02 may fix it Aug 10 06:49:35 not for me! I have GTA01 :) Aug 10 06:49:55 daMaestro, what's the cube ?-) Aug 10 06:50:56 just a game Aug 10 06:51:04 in 2007.2 ? Aug 10 06:51:08 yes Aug 10 06:51:37 I've only gotten as far as try the 2007(.1).. just got my device yesterday :) Aug 10 06:51:41 i dont find it lags, but i do find that it doenst pickup my click to launch the app sometimes Aug 10 06:52:17 but i do still have the plastic on the screen, although i doubt its that Aug 10 06:52:26 xkr47, http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070809-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin Aug 10 06:53:12 daMaestro, :) Aug 10 06:53:21 will have to get through my work day first Aug 10 06:53:29 I deliberately left the usb cable home :) Aug 10 07:00:46 Psi_, gsmd didn't autostart for me with this build Aug 10 07:02:56 though manually starting it didn't get dialer to work Aug 10 07:03:25 hmmm i am still having major issues with my case pushing on the touch screen Aug 10 07:05:14 daMaestro, yeah, i started it too and it didnt help Aug 10 07:05:43 Psi_, using the libgsm shell works fine Aug 10 07:05:46 xzcvczx, what effect does that cause? Aug 10 07:07:08 Psi_, did you try using 'libgsmd-tool -m shell' ? Aug 10 07:07:15 na Aug 10 07:08:50 yep, that works Aug 10 07:09:21 cool Aug 10 07:09:27 * daMaestro & Aug 10 07:09:28 no audio though Aug 10 07:10:52 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/ restore Aug 10 07:11:17 yeah, just trying that now Aug 10 07:11:45 iirc gsmhandset tries to deafen you Aug 10 07:12:21 hehe, there is no alsa dir under /etc/ Aug 10 07:12:53 how the hell do you pop up the screen keyboard in 2007.2? :/ Aug 10 07:13:04 you launch that input manager Aug 10 07:13:28 its in the app list Aug 10 07:13:49 that=the Aug 10 07:14:58 yeah, you have to find it and launch it Aug 10 07:15:30 are you using om2007.1 or .2 Psi_? Aug 10 07:15:35 it is *way* to easy to crash openmoko-today Aug 10 07:15:38 .2 Aug 10 07:16:20 tbh rtyler && Psi_ .2 is ok for a bit of fun... but it's not good for much else Aug 10 07:16:44 (yet) Aug 10 07:16:47 ScaredyCat, yeah, ive had phonecalls with sound under .1 Aug 10 07:17:06 ScaredyCat: welll, I crash today frequently with om2007 and 2007.2 Aug 10 07:17:10 * rtyler grumbles Aug 10 07:23:16 mailing list still farked? Aug 10 07:24:51 I guess it must be... actually I wondered why my inbox was so empty this morning, I guess now I know why... Aug 10 07:26:42 "forget viagra! buy openmoko!" Aug 10 07:32:06 So are the nslu2-linux builds helpful for anyone? Aug 10 07:32:39 naaa bloody useless.. :P Aug 10 07:33:10 good, I'll keep building them until they become useful and then I'll yank it out from under you. Aug 10 07:33:45 sounds about right :) Aug 10 07:34:08 You must have done customer services training in .nl Aug 10 07:34:14 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9264384554.html Nokia director speaks on Linux (and Openmoko) Aug 10 07:34:30 does he cry a lot ? Aug 10 07:36:01 is mpg321 packaged for ipkg? Aug 10 07:36:04 well, OpenMoko has corporate involvement, so I'm not sure how much that mention really has to do with the preceeding quote... Aug 10 07:36:23 i want to put an mp3 player on my phone Aug 10 07:36:35 he typically replies, "Yes, they can steal the software..." Aug 10 07:36:40 mjr, what corporate? Aug 10 07:36:40 it's not stealing... Aug 10 07:37:00 it's OSS Aug 10 07:37:36 ScaredyCat, yeah, seems rather nasty of him to use that word Aug 10 07:38:01 also, my image of Nokia is less than stellar, what with their swpat lobbying in Europe and stuff... Aug 10 07:38:23 I know there's maemo people that don't care as long as they get cool toys, but... Aug 10 07:38:28 We'll see how his "commutily" will react Aug 10 07:38:32 Dmitry_Platonov, OpenMoko irc.? Aug 10 07:38:34 inc. Aug 10 07:39:11 we could start by getting my 770 to pair ith my neo :) Aug 10 07:39:22 Hi, I'm trying to connect to the usb serial provided by the actual handset (ie not /dev/ACM0 on the debug board) and keep getting errors like "device descriptor read/64, error -110" and not /dev/ttyUSB entry. has anyone seen this before? Aug 10 07:40:08 mjr, Openmoko inc. is rather small comany Aug 10 07:40:50 It's still corporate involvement. Core involvement, even. Aug 10 07:41:05 does the stylus need batteries in order for it to function with the touch screen? Aug 10 07:41:09 I mean, it's not like the OpenMoko is primarily a community effort at least at this point Aug 10 07:41:24 orzo, no Aug 10 07:41:29 and there's nothing bad about corporate involvement, of course, just noting that it is there Aug 10 07:43:25 the graph on page 12 of his talk has a lesson for OpenMoko - expect at least three months of stabilising once your developers think the image is ready. Aug 10 07:43:49 So for a mass market release in November, the image has to be finished today. Aug 10 07:43:57 lol Aug 10 07:43:59 (i.e. feature complete) Aug 10 07:44:07 right where is it Aug 10 07:44:11 eh ? Aug 10 07:44:12 eh ? Aug 10 07:44:14 cmon Aug 10 07:45:37 ^^^^^ wtf Aug 10 07:45:57 rwhitby, which graph? Aug 10 07:47:35 page 12 of http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/LW2007_Jaaksi.pdf Aug 10 07:47:59 * xkr47 wonders if three months is enough Aug 10 07:48:28 but otoh it depends who you ask whether it's ready :) Aug 10 07:48:43 the consumer will tell you that quite vocally Aug 10 07:49:28 The N800 got it just about right as far as I can see (I have one) Aug 10 07:49:47 except the price Aug 10 07:49:57 got it right how? stability ? Aug 10 07:50:03 and the proprietary bits Aug 10 07:50:39 stroke recog on 770 is good Aug 10 07:51:02 no, it's evil ;) Aug 10 07:51:05 madplay is the installed mp3 player Aug 10 07:52:21 * ljp wonders how someone can steal open source Aug 10 07:52:34 ljp: Not easily. Aug 10 07:53:11 well, if you agree with the rhetoric that copyright infringement is stealing (which I very much don't, but for the purposes of this, let's), then it's quite easy; redistribute (L)GPL stuff without source Aug 10 07:53:17 root@fic-gta01:~$ madplay /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/ringtone_goodnight.mp3 Aug 10 07:53:17 ljp, those who does not share their source, distributil GPL software Aug 10 07:53:27 errk Aug 10 07:53:37 ljp, those who does not share their source, distributing GPL software, are stealing opensource 8) Aug 10 07:54:35 no, thats just violating a license, not stealing Aug 10 07:54:48 Therefore copyright infrigment is not *stealing* Aug 10 07:55:01 *nod* Aug 10 07:55:14 hey, stop flame waring and get back to fixing OpenMoko :D Aug 10 07:55:31 so then you get to the point where you'd have to break into somebody's computer, copy their free software to yourself and delete the originals to steal it :] Aug 10 07:56:39 xkr47: got it right in the correct combination of user friendly, stability, but openness for hacking. Aug 10 07:58:12 I took his "steal the software" statement to indicate the case where another company takes the open source software, and releases it (against the license) as closed source in a product. Aug 10 07:58:53 hmm. I wonder how this goes, how I could I create a rootfs binaries that would work with OMAP cpu's Aug 10 07:58:56 and I doubt he was using "stealing" as a legal term. Aug 10 07:59:12 he was using it as newspeak, as are RIAA and company Aug 10 07:59:28 even more horrid newspeak than any recording industry guy Aug 10 07:59:40 mjr: except he was using it for the reverse meaning that what RIAA uses it. Aug 10 07:59:48 s/that/than/ Aug 10 07:59:49 rwhitby meant: mjr: except he was using it for the reverse meaning than what RIAA uses it. Aug 10 07:59:53 not reverse, methinks Aug 10 08:00:13 RIAA is trying to equate sharing without monopoly owner's permission with theft Aug 10 08:00:21 RIAA calls taking coprighted/licensed stuff and distributing it as "stealing". Aug 10 08:00:26 ~reverse rwhitby meant: mjr: except he was using it for the reverse meaning than what RIAA uses it Aug 10 08:00:28 ti sesu AAIR tahw naht gninaem esrever eht rof ti gnisu saw eh tpecxe :rjm :tnaem ybtihwr Aug 10 08:00:31 now apparently Nokia is gunning for _sharing with permission_ as theft Aug 10 08:00:43 NO Aug 10 08:00:52 yeah , I read it as that Aug 10 08:01:19 The Nokia guy was saying "if you take freely redistributable stuff and put it in a closed product so that it's no longer freely redistributable, then you're "stealing" Aug 10 08:01:28 (at least that's how I read it) Aug 10 08:01:53 i.e. "stealing" from the open source community by not giving back your changes according to the license agreement on the software Aug 10 08:02:07 that's not what the article text says, though I'll grant that journalists make mistakes Aug 10 08:02:32 sorry, but that's exactly what the article text says. Aug 10 08:02:50 sorry, no it isn't Aug 10 08:03:13 Competitors (i.e. all Nokia's competitors at the moment are closed source product development) taking advantage of the work done under an open source license. Aug 10 08:03:33 How else could it be read? Aug 10 08:03:34 taking advantage does not mean "unlawfully" Aug 10 08:04:22 nokia themselves take advantage of open source work Aug 10 08:04:27 ljp, yep Aug 10 08:04:29 If he competitors are not releasing the source of the products that are derived from open source software, then that is unlawful (assuming you agree that the software license is a legal agreement) Aug 10 08:04:31 very much so Aug 10 08:04:55 and yes nokia are not blameless either - they have closed source themselves Aug 10 08:04:58 rwhitby, of course. But in that sentence, there is _no_ implication that the competitors _are_ doing it against the licenses Aug 10 08:05:23 mjr: that's in the context that the reader puts the statement in. Aug 10 08:05:45 i.e. you've put it one context, I've put it in another - we'll never know which was the right context. Aug 10 08:05:54 yes we will, read the quote Aug 10 08:06:20 I've read the quote, and I simply don't agree with you. I'm not saying you're wrong - you can take the quote many different ways. Aug 10 08:06:44 why would the Nokia guy talk about how they're in a position to better know who to work with and that the community people know them already, if he didn't assume that the competitor was going to try to work with the community too? Aug 10 08:06:51 he's just saying that they're in a better position to do so Aug 10 08:07:01 and I _am_ saying that _you_ are flat wrong Aug 10 08:07:16 reading it as it is Aug 10 08:07:19 that's your opinion, and you've every right to have that opinion. Aug 10 08:07:34 rwhitby: he does *not* say that... Aug 10 08:07:39 I don't agree with you, but I'm also not saying that your opinion could not be correct. Aug 10 08:08:15 However, you're taking a much more inflammatory stance (perhaps intentionally) by saying that my opinion of what he said simply cannot be correct. Aug 10 08:08:16 you seem to be giving the guy a benefit of the doubt that the text simply does not support; now, that might be warranted, since again, journalists make mistakes, but your claiming that the text supports your interpretation is clearly ludicurous Aug 10 08:09:14 and you're not even trying to counter my arguments, and are not offering any of your own to support your interpretation of the text as it is Aug 10 08:09:22 How rumor begins: openmoko & google phone Aug 10 08:09:25 mjr: I'm not going to start a flame war with you - but I'm not comfortable with the way you're painting this as black and white, and not giving *me* the consideration that perhaps I can see something in it that you are not seeing. Aug 10 08:09:32 1) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10455627 Aug 10 08:09:40 2) http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_item&px=NTk1Mw Aug 10 08:09:50 3) http://www.nowtoronto.com/blog/view_post.cfm?post=327 Aug 10 08:10:07 rwhitby, we've talked of it for a while yet you have not given me _any_ reason, any argument, that the text is saying what you claim it is Aug 10 08:10:10 ... Aug 10 08:10:11 mornin' Aug 10 08:10:21 how could I build an EABI version of the openmoko? Aug 10 08:10:43 so yes, at this point I am assuming that you're pretty much talking out of your ass Aug 10 08:10:57 mjr: actually, I did. You just didn't accept the argument I gave, and I'm not prepared to escalate it, cause I have nothing to gain by trying to put you down by trying to prove you wrong. Aug 10 08:11:16 yeah, bitch! Aug 10 08:11:41 You seem to have some emotional attachment to the subject at hand, so you'll probably not accept any argument I give. Aug 10 08:12:03 What argument? Oh yeah, that "taking advantage" thing. Ok, so you did give a _readily dismissable_ argument, since again, that doesn't imply what you think it does, and the quote context, as I explained, also doesn't support your implication Aug 10 08:12:18 * ScaredyCat starts poking rwhitby with a poking stick Aug 10 08:12:30 emotional attachment to a _piece of text_? Aug 10 08:12:41 we're arguing about a _piece of text_ Aug 10 08:12:54 mjr: by the way you're escalating the argument it seems so. Aug 10 08:12:55 we're not even arguing about what the Nokia guy really said Aug 10 08:13:07 we're arguing about what the _text says_ Aug 10 08:13:07 hearsay ? Aug 10 08:13:35 I'll grant though that I have some emotional response to idiots trying to make things into what they are plainly not Aug 10 08:13:45 so that may be what you're reading Aug 10 08:13:55 and there you go again, escalating the argument by calling me names now. Aug 10 08:14:04 Sorry, but I'm not biting. Aug 10 08:14:08 ooooh get her Aug 10 08:14:54 ScaredyCat: lmao Aug 10 08:15:31 Could someone provide the quote so I can understand what you're talking about please? Aug 10 08:15:35 there is no argument, there hasn't been an argument since I shot down your one incorrect argument by noting how it is, in fact, 1) terminologically incorrect and 2) actively unsupported by the quote context. After that it has just been your stubbornness to accept that you're wrong. Aug 10 08:15:50 Jaaksi said he is often asked about competitors taking advantage of Nokia work done under an open source license. He says he typically replies, "Yes, they can steal the software, but we've been building the community, and that's a valuable asset as we go forward. Do [competitors] know who to work with to get what they need done? When we show up and say we are Nokia, it has a positive connotation, and helps us get things done there." Aug 10 08:15:59 did that come through completely? Aug 10 08:16:02 rwhitby - """ls -t tmp/deploy/images//*.jffs2""" <-- one slash is enough in MokoMakefile there. I think. ;o) Aug 10 08:16:25 Elrond: superfluous, surely? Aug 10 08:17:05 Placid - I think so. Only 99.3% sure. Aug 10 08:17:24 mjr: Crystal clear to me Aug 10 08:17:37 Elrond: i'd imagine it has no affect. Aug 10 08:17:52 Elrond: your suggestion is cleaner, of course Aug 10 08:18:07 Placid - That's the idea, only. I like clean stuff. Aug 10 08:18:08 Indeed. But one supposes that not everyone knows their English. Aug 10 08:18:30 Anyway. need to run. Later gueys. Aug 10 08:18:44 gueys! Aug 10 08:19:28 mjr: ok, I'll try one last time. My interpretation of that text is that Nokia has competitors who take the open source software that Nokia (and many other people) contribute to, and release it in products without complying with the open source license. Aug 10 08:19:51 Elrond: and rightly so. no criticism, just an observation :) Aug 10 08:19:53 (incidentally talk about Jaaksi on the #debian-fi channel, where people have talked with him, supports the theory that he's clueless) Aug 10 08:20:07 I'm not saying that's the *only* interpretation. I can see how your interpretation is perfectly valid too. Aug 10 08:21:05 But I don't think it's proper for you to be calling me an idiot just because you don't agree with my possible interpretation, and doing so is certainly not conducive to a cooperative community. Aug 10 08:21:17 sounds to me like "nokia releases stuff, and others use it - and good for them. But what we gain in community goodwill more than makes up for whatever may be lost by 'helping' competitors in this way' Aug 10 08:21:48 rwhitby, and that would be a valid interpretation if it weren't for the following context. And incidentally, you did originally say "How else could it be read?", which is kinda making it out to be the only valid interpretation, though you did loosen up after that, yes. Aug 10 08:21:52 If that's your nature, I'll live with it. But calling people an idiot just because I don't agree with their interpretation of something is not the way that I communicate with fellow developers. Aug 10 08:22:07 (And if that was a valid question, you don't know English.) Aug 10 08:22:26 No, I asked "how else could it be read" so I could understand the other interpretations, at which point I then understood how you interpreted it. Aug 10 08:22:58 i.e. I tried to understand how you are seeing the world, before asserting an opinion on your interpretation. Aug 10 08:24:00 and yeah, I don't call people idiots just because they don't agree with my interpretation of something _that actually has valid interpretations_ isn't how I communicate either Aug 10 08:24:22 but if somebody comes up and says that yeah, the sun and the moon revolve around the earth, I call them idiots Aug 10 08:24:26 sorry about that Aug 10 08:24:46 valid other interpretations, that is Aug 10 08:24:49 ok, so you're continuing to dismiss my interpretation as not untenable. Aug 10 08:24:50 but let's can it Aug 10 08:25:04 s/not untenable/not tenable/ Aug 10 08:25:05 rwhitby meant: ok, so you're continuing to dismiss my interpretation as not tenable. Aug 10 08:25:16 yes I am, and I told you why, and you haven't refuted the context explanation, but simply said "I don't agree" Aug 10 08:25:43 right - I don't believe the following context is strong enough to completely dismiss my interpretation. Aug 10 08:26:26 I'm not trying to refute your interpretation. Nor do I feel the need for there to be only one interpretation. Aug 10 08:28:42 that's a good reason to endorse an interpretation, because it's not completely dismissed Aug 10 08:28:50 ah well *shrug* Aug 10 08:28:57 If having that interpretation means that I'm an idiot in your eyes, then so be it. Aug 10 08:29:26 yep, *shrug* here too :-) Aug 10 08:29:41 * rwhitby extends a handshake Aug 10 08:30:06 * mjr returns said Aug 10 08:30:20 good morning Aug 10 08:30:30 hi florian Aug 10 08:30:43 and "idiot" perhaps was indeed too heated a word; sorry about that, let's say "misguided" Aug 10 08:31:33 no.no. Aug 10 08:31:44 * ScaredyCat hands rwhitby a mace Aug 10 08:31:50 what, you were still being entertained by the flamefest? Aug 10 08:31:52 :] Aug 10 08:31:54 mjr said you wer a big girl Aug 10 08:31:55 * khaije1 scratches head Aug 10 08:32:02 whats the rukus? Aug 10 08:32:22 mjr: yep, I expect we have very different viewpoints on the world, and would call many things that each of us do "misguided" :-) Aug 10 08:33:14 s/would call many things that each of us/would each call many things that the other does/ Aug 10 08:33:15 rwhitby meant: mjr: yep, I expect we have very different viewpoints on the world, and would each call many things that the other does do "misguided" :-) Aug 10 08:33:21 khaije1, whether the only tenable interpretation of the paragraph beginning "Jaaksi said he is often..." at http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9264384554.html is that he equates use Nokia's open source code by competitors as theft Aug 10 08:33:26 (licensed use) Aug 10 08:33:57 or whether another tenable interpretation is whether he is referring to unlicensed use only as theft. Aug 10 08:34:18 arguments are in lastlog and I hear also there's an online log, let's not get in it again Aug 10 08:34:43 (and I think we both agree that "theft" isn't the right word to use in either case) Aug 10 08:35:11 oh yes, theft is never the right word to use in cases of infringement of govt. granted monopoly Aug 10 08:35:34 so the disagreement hinges on if he is refering to liscenced or unliscenced use? Aug 10 08:35:38 see,look what you've done, they're just agreeing Aug 10 08:35:41 and obviously not when there is no infrigement, either Aug 10 08:35:42 * ScaredyCat sighs Aug 10 08:35:44 mjr: have you seen the google tech talk on the history of copyright Aug 10 08:35:45 ? Aug 10 08:36:01 khaije1, pretty much Aug 10 08:36:15 khaije1: yep Aug 10 08:36:17 hmm i see Aug 10 08:36:25 no, but I'm somewhat familiar with the history myself Aug 10 08:37:10 its a worthwhile and important distinction to make, too bad its not more clear from the text, though that is neither of *your* faults ^_^ Aug 10 08:37:47 you saying it isn't rwhitby's fault?!?!?! Aug 10 08:37:59 *cough* Aug 10 08:38:00 yes, well Aug 10 08:38:13 mjr: I think the talk I'm referring to is the one at http://www.questioncopyright.org/stanford_library_talk_2006, although I got it from google video I think. Aug 10 08:38:18 * khaije1 chuckles Aug 10 08:38:53 and every disagreement isnt a flamewar, though it does make for good marketing Aug 10 08:39:18 As my Neo just arrived, I'd love to get a hand on gllin (for strictly navigational purposes), please mail if you can help: openmoko@alech.de Aug 10 08:39:29 flamewars should be to the death, just to see who's commited. Aug 10 08:39:31 khaije1: yeah, it's only a flamewar when it escalates into name calling :-) Aug 10 08:39:36 alech, check the GPS page on wiki Aug 10 08:39:48 * mjr downloads talk for later Aug 10 08:40:31 meh Aug 10 08:40:50 (and what we just hadn't wasn't even close to a flame war) Aug 10 08:40:57 s/hadn't/had/ Aug 10 08:40:58 rwhitby meant: (and what we just had wasn't even close to a flame war) Aug 10 08:41:08 geez my typing is bad tonight. Aug 10 08:41:10 rwhitby: though it's not too late! Aug 10 08:41:35 * khaije1 beats mjr with rwitby's mother Aug 10 08:41:37 khaije1: it's 6pm on a friday night here - I'm going to have a beer rather than a flamewar :-) Aug 10 08:41:58 good thing you didn't do it the other way around Aug 10 08:42:05 xkr47: ? Aug 10 08:42:11 'cause you'd have like bones and dirt flying around Aug 10 08:42:13 xkr47: -v, please :) Aug 10 08:42:13 no rwhitby.. it's 09:41 am Aug 10 08:42:38 mjr: it's a risky maneuver in any case Aug 10 08:42:42 alech, open wiki. go to page GPS Aug 10 08:42:47 * ScaredyCat pokes rwhitby with a chicken leg Aug 10 08:43:12 mmmm chicken ... Aug 10 08:43:39 morning Aug 10 08:43:55 shh... everybody pretent to be working Aug 10 08:43:57 xkr47: yes, I've been there. What am I supposed to see that I don't know yet in your opionion? Am I mistaken that I need gllin? Aug 10 08:44:06 mickey|ccc07, what's going on at the ccc07? Aug 10 08:44:25 openmoko coding marathon Aug 10 08:44:31 :O Aug 10 08:44:42 you do need gllin, so far, since RE is merely underway Aug 10 08:44:48 * stefan_schmidt mumbles something about taking over the world Aug 10 08:44:51 hehe Aug 10 08:45:09 and you can't apparently get it legally yet, unless some less scrupulous individual is willing to share with you here Aug 10 08:45:14 stefan_schmidt: breakfirst first, though. after that, we can follow with your plans Aug 10 08:45:26 * alech hopes from some scrupulous individuals ;-) Aug 10 08:45:38 alech, I certainly don't know what you know already :) I think that's the information available right now and thought you hadn't seen it.. it uses gllin in its scripts, that's all I can see.. sorry I don't know more :) Aug 10 08:45:39 mickey|ccc07: I had mine already. Just take a drink pack next to you. ;) Aug 10 08:45:43 Hi stefan_schmidt! :) Aug 10 08:45:45 is there anywhere licence agreement for gllin? Aug 10 08:45:47 hi El_Salvador Aug 10 08:45:48 * mickey|ccc07 shudders Aug 10 08:45:49 xkr47: never mind ;-) Aug 10 08:45:56 * xkr47 bows Aug 10 08:47:25 stefan_schmidt - BTW: My Bv03 survived two days in off without draining the battery. So there must be some software mitigating factors to this modem wakeup story. Aug 10 08:48:22 Elrond: hmm, did you pull off the battery before and inserted it again? Aug 10 08:48:36 Elrond: That should work as the hw is really off then Aug 10 08:48:48 stefan_schmidt - No. I don't pull the battery often. Aug 10 08:49:20 Elrond: hmm Aug 10 08:49:23 * aloril is way behind, but with "they can steal the software" maybe he meant "they can fork the software" Aug 10 08:49:33 (or even become downstream users) Aug 10 08:49:48 Elrond: v3 is not worth much debugging I think Aug 10 08:49:59 don't quarrel over ari's statement, he meant forking Aug 10 08:50:06 aloril, that's pretty much my point of view, that he meant licensed forking or downstream using Aug 10 08:50:33 * mjr accepts mickey as the Voice of God Aug 10 08:50:33 stefan_schmidt - Probably not. But having that software fixup would probably not hurt on the Bv4.1 Aug 10 08:51:09 * aloril has seen this "feel free to steal code" or "we stole it from" when it really means copying allowed by license (GPL code in another GPL licensed program for example) Aug 10 08:51:32 mjr: ;) Aug 10 08:51:38 Elrond: I doubt it's software Aug 10 08:51:49 aloril, yeah, but those contexts are clearly joking, whereas Ari is mostly making an donkey of himself Aug 10 08:51:55 Elrond: But if you find something, we accept patches. ;) Aug 10 08:51:59 stefan_schmidt - I'm on holiday for a 6 days next week. I'll do a "halt" and put the neo on my desk and see the battery voltage when I'm back. Aug 10 08:52:02 hehe, so I read it right (I haven't really read you arguments, just saw start of it ;-) Aug 10 08:52:30 mjr: true Aug 10 08:52:48 * mjr remembers that he has his motherfucking decursing script on as a test. Hell, Fuck, Bastard. Aug 10 08:52:54 stefan_schmidt - hoho. ;o) Aug 10 08:53:16 hmm, apparently it doesn't work with actions. Texas, duck, barstand Aug 10 08:53:17 :] Aug 10 08:53:38 * ljp needs to dig into modem suspend/resume Aug 10 08:54:01 Elrond: ;) Aug 10 08:54:22 * stefan_schmidt tunes in some classic in our camp tent. Aug 10 08:54:48 your tent is camp ? Aug 10 08:55:10 hmm Aug 10 08:55:17 not my kind of music Aug 10 08:55:30 i adore their scores, but not their instruments Aug 10 08:55:41 not enough electricity :D Aug 10 08:55:43 mickey|ccc07: Some more minutes and I tune over to punk-rock :) Aug 10 08:55:47 noooo Aug 10 08:55:54 * mickey|ccc07 shuts up, knowing it could be worse Aug 10 08:55:54 elektro is overrated Aug 10 08:56:12 i thought rammstein was a requirement for coding Aug 10 08:56:54 *G* Aug 10 08:57:03 Anyway, I'm off for work. Aug 10 08:57:17 laf0rge arrives with breakfast Aug 10 08:57:35 no, groove salad is Aug 10 08:58:31 yeah Aug 10 08:58:34 soma.fm rock Aug 10 08:58:38 s Aug 10 08:58:46 don't eat the fish Aug 10 09:08:32 FWIW, I uploaded some more 2007.2 photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/agentdero/tags/openmoko200702/ Aug 10 09:08:58 this was already said (typed before reading argument where it was said): "we are Nokia, you won't get fired if you get support from us instead of random forker" which fits forking Aug 10 09:09:04 if he meant actual stealing it would have been more along lines "we can sue them" Aug 10 09:09:44 that page 12 is interesting indeed Aug 10 09:10:32 rtyler: what software state is that? jffs2 images somewhere ? Aug 10 09:10:46 rxr: yeah, some of the latest development snapshots Aug 10 09:10:53 heh? Aug 10 09:11:03 I flashed the latest yesterday and it looks totally different Aug 10 09:11:12 rxr: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ Aug 10 09:11:17 you flashed om2007.1 not .2 Aug 10 09:11:18 OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070809-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 10 09:11:40 I flsedh images from the location in the "howto flash wiki" Aug 10 09:11:42 it's just as unstable as before! >_< Aug 10 09:11:47 from ome openmoko domain Aug 10 09:11:52 how does yours differ? Aug 10 09:11:55 rxr, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Pre-built_snapshot_images Aug 10 09:11:58 * aloril wonders when mainstream is going to make difference between copying and taking only copy (stealing if without permission) Aug 10 09:12:07 those might have been mickey's images Aug 10 09:12:18 rtyler: yes, where barely anything works Aug 10 09:12:46 rtyler: why does "your" screenshots look like more usable applications? what is the difference? Aug 10 09:13:12 2007.1 vs 2007.2 Aug 10 09:13:21 heh Aug 10 09:13:26 oh, and I'm a Mac user, so things naturally look better for me ;) Aug 10 09:14:10 lol Aug 10 09:15:15 rtyler: do you actually write software or just bitbake it together ? Aug 10 09:15:38 I'm trying to get to the point of writing software, I was hoping there'd be a ready made cross-compiler running around the source tree >_> Aug 10 09:16:38 which uImage fits to the above jffs2, uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin ? Aug 10 09:19:18 Hi, A bit of good news, I have had a reply from Jouston Huang at openmoko with a good tracking number - my phone has arrived in Perth, and been given to a 3rd carrier who will probably give it to Australia Post who are good at delivering, ETA Monday Aug 10 09:19:33 woot, congrats Aug 10 09:20:59 mine got here to brisbane in about 3 days Aug 10 09:25:21 Yes mine got to Perth Aug 9 late, then 10th few minutes ago being transferred to another carrier who thinks I am too far out and will give it to Australia Post.. This is a comfort.. but I lose the weekend. Aug 10 09:30:09 so, any of you have any tips on getting a cross-compiler working? Aug 10 09:30:56 put it in the correct place and set your PATH Aug 10 09:31:18 it also seems that since I've flashed with 2007.2, my machine can't recognize the device on the usb bus Aug 10 09:32:05 ljp: but, in terms building on, or are there prebuilt packages for it? Aug 10 09:32:15 last compiler (mips64) that I had to build *sucked* Aug 10 09:34:07 rtyler, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile will setup a cross compilation environment for u Aug 10 09:35:09 gargh, 2007.2 is pretty, but severely broken :P Aug 10 09:35:48 * ruoso just got the phone... Aug 10 09:35:50 :) Aug 10 09:35:53 congrats Aug 10 09:36:30 dont brick it :) Aug 10 09:36:49 I still need to flash it, right? Aug 10 09:38:04 because it gives me a kernel panic when I try to boot it... Aug 10 09:38:29 that's for customs Aug 10 09:38:39 ruoso yeh u need to flash first Aug 10 09:38:43 thats because it has no root filesystem, so yes, you must flash it Aug 10 09:38:43 so you don't have to pay a VAT for a brick :p Aug 10 09:38:43 some assembly required :) Aug 10 09:39:26 quick tip, with 2007.2, apparently holding the power button won't give you the 2007.1 dialog to power off/lock Aug 10 09:39:35 so pop into the terminal, and tap in "shutdown -h now" :D Aug 10 09:39:41 * rtyler <3 *nix Aug 10 09:40:39 so, which rootfs image should I get? Aug 10 09:41:11 ruoso, try 2007.2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Pre-built_snapshot_images Aug 10 09:41:12 2007.1 Aug 10 09:41:20 Dmitry_Platonov: I wouldn't recommend that :/ Aug 10 09:41:38 it's pretty, but a bit more buggy than 2007.1 it seems Aug 10 09:41:48 neither working good, but .2 looks better ^_^ Aug 10 09:42:15 I like the inertial scrolling. Aug 10 09:42:18 i just got the latest from chooseopen.com at the time i got mine Aug 10 09:43:31 anybody else get super fun Monotone DB schema errors when using rwhitby's MokoMakefile? Aug 10 09:43:45 rtyler: can you phone with the image you pointed to ? Aug 10 09:44:00 rxr: haven't tried it yet Aug 10 09:44:06 ough Aug 10 09:44:09 rtyler: which distro u on? Aug 10 09:44:12 I could (sort of) with 2007.1 Aug 10 09:44:17 zedstar: Feisty Fawn Aug 10 09:44:28 rxr: My sound driver was frakked with 2007.1, but the dialing and connecting worked Aug 10 09:44:45 rtyler: define "freaked" Aug 10 09:44:53 frakked, it means "fucked" :) Aug 10 09:45:06 rtyler: you mean no sound, proably would have worked if you had alsactl restore --file /etc/alsa/whatever Aug 10 09:45:26 bet you it didn't :) Aug 10 09:45:33 alsactl couldn't find any sound cards Aug 10 09:45:49 rtyler: i had to install gutsy gibbon to get some graphics driver support and mokomakefile worked out of the box on that for me Aug 10 09:46:43 was able to build and run the hello world console and gui version on my device using it Aug 10 09:46:43 zedstar: the mokomakefile works, it's Monotone puking on the OE.mtn that was fetched Aug 10 09:47:09 http://rafb.net/p/6oNoAV11.html Aug 10 09:48:28 NOTE: Task failed: Fetch failed: ftp://ftp.astron.com/pub/file/file-4.20.tar.gz Aug 10 09:48:31 hurmh Aug 10 09:50:32 is gutsy somehow usable? Aug 10 09:50:52 zedstar, Dmitry_Platonov, I'm pretty unsure about which file to choose in the list at http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images Aug 10 09:50:59 for the rootfs Aug 10 09:51:31 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070810-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 10 09:51:33 rtyler ah ok got no idea wot that error means didnt get it Aug 10 09:51:33 that one Aug 10 09:51:34 do I need to re-flash the kernel? or just the rootfs? Aug 10 09:51:43 ruoso, try latest one Aug 10 09:51:53 ruoso i did both Aug 10 09:52:16 ruoso, both Aug 10 09:52:19 it's good to match Aug 10 09:52:36 and which is the kernel image for that rootfs? Aug 10 09:52:46 * ruoso still didn't figure out the naming schema Aug 10 09:53:27 i got my stuff from here http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ as less confusion Aug 10 09:53:36 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin Aug 10 09:53:43 just one kernel on that site Aug 10 09:54:08 zedstar, ah... ok Aug 10 09:54:19 ignore the u-boot stuff. Aug 10 09:54:29 it's the uImage? or the zImage/ Aug 10 09:54:36 * cjb_ie wonders if the name zedstar is a heinlein reference Aug 10 09:54:55 unless you're very brave and/or have the debug board Aug 10 09:55:11 uImage Aug 10 09:55:34 cjb_ie: um no Aug 10 09:56:00 will the factory reset take me back to the point of needing a rootfs and everything? since 2007.2 has made it not communicate with my Linux box Aug 10 09:56:01 gah... I just hate pressing ctrl+alt+backscape by accident Aug 10 09:56:16 by accident? Aug 10 09:56:29 ScaredyCat: when pounding the keyboard, it happens ;) Aug 10 09:56:31 I use ctrl-alt arrows to change desktop Aug 10 09:56:42 and eventually I do it too fast while typing Aug 10 09:57:41 so, for that rootfs, I will take http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin as kernel image. Ok? Aug 10 09:57:56 yes Aug 10 09:58:28 * ruoso need to enable the "DontZap" option in his X server Aug 10 09:59:03 btw do any of the sites with rootfs document the changes between versions anywhere? Aug 10 10:00:26 not that I'm aware of.. Aug 10 10:03:33 factory reset, anybody? Aug 10 10:03:35 * ruoso flashing the rootfs of the first phone... already flashed the kernel for both phones... Aug 10 10:05:02 if you want to use an OM2007.1 image, you'll need to nand erase first... IME Aug 10 10:05:21 that's if you've put a OM2007.2 on beforehand Aug 10 10:05:26 since they're bigger Aug 10 10:05:39 I put OM2007.1 first, I only tried out 2007.2 today Aug 10 10:05:41 ah... that's the first flashing... Aug 10 10:06:00 and now I can't get my damnit Neo showing up on the USB bus now to even flash it :'( Aug 10 10:06:04 or erases the rootfs Aug 10 10:07:21 you don't gt the /dev/ttyACM0 ? Aug 10 10:07:57 nopers Aug 10 10:08:03 yoink Aug 10 10:08:11 * ruoso surprised with how slow the rootfs flashing is Aug 10 10:08:35 yeah, apparently it doen't use block mode transfer or something Aug 10 10:08:54 CM has a similar issue rtyler Aug 10 10:08:56 ScaredyCat: "Set console to USB" changes the screen for a sec, and then brings me right back to uBoot Aug 10 10:09:03 CM: d'oh! Aug 10 10:09:16 rtyler, boot from sd? Aug 10 10:09:21 yes.. that's what it does Aug 10 10:09:58 ScaredyCat: but the device never shows up on me box :'( Aug 10 10:10:09 but if you use minicom setup for /dev/ttyACM0 .. get to the menu (don;t need to select usb serial) Aug 10 10:11:11 hit enter a few times Aug 10 10:11:38 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Bootloader_prompt Aug 10 10:15:18 wow... I got a big listing of errors about the jjfs2 image... but it then booted Aug 10 10:15:27 the errors were before it mounts the rootfs Aug 10 10:15:32 uboot too old Aug 10 10:15:41 ScaredyCat: any tips on using minicom for this? I'm not familliar and thhe /dev/ttyACM0 device doesn't exist Aug 10 10:15:42 either update it or manually nand erase rootfs Aug 10 10:16:19 it wont exist until you boot the phone, it switches to cdc_ether iirc Aug 10 10:17:33 rtyler: setup minicom to use the ACM0.... Aug 10 10:17:55 hmmm it stopped just before the gauge bar completes Aug 10 10:18:22 then boot the device (power+aux) while it's starting, fire up minicom Aug 10 10:18:24 hit enter Aug 10 10:19:20 has anyone thought about text input with the accelerometers coming in gta2? I was thinking of a predictive algorithm and a 3d space in which the letters will be placed location and distance dependant on how likely the predictive algorithm thinks they are. the accelerometers will then be used to control the speed with which the space moves. Aug 10 10:19:43 counter Aug 10 10:19:43 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1798;252) Aug 10 10:22:08 as in, as long as the predictor algorithm is correct, the user won't have to make corrections to the movement of the space and even when it makes a mistake, the correction required will be minor. Aug 10 10:22:54 ... most of the time Aug 10 10:23:04 ScaredyCat: Aug 10 10:23:05 ccnet% minicom Aug 10 10:23:05 minicom: cannot open /dev/ttyACM0: No such file or directory Aug 10 10:23:12 even from uBoot :/ Aug 10 10:23:45 any clue? Aug 10 10:23:53 I think the device just frozen.... Aug 10 10:24:00 heh Aug 10 10:24:09 somebody Ctrl+Alt+Backspaced again Aug 10 10:24:36 not this time... my router kicked me Aug 10 10:24:56 but anyway Aug 10 10:25:25 it stops in the boot screen just before the gauge bar completes Aug 10 10:25:31 You should fix your router then. Aug 10 10:25:33 heh Aug 10 10:25:45 Jiten: that sounds brilliant, i love how the neo makes these posible Aug 10 10:25:50 and then it doesn't even responds to the power button Aug 10 10:26:04 I have to remove the battery to switch it off and then boot again Aug 10 10:26:07 mickey|ccc07: you still around? Aug 10 10:26:35 i just see with my new SIM the modem already errors out after the pin Aug 10 10:26:35 acpi is loaded then. Aug 10 10:26:40 i was thinking of something somewhat similar, if you check the wiki you will see and entry for a "magic wand" style UI Aug 10 10:26:52 Thu Jan 1 00:39:14 1970 <1> atcmd.c:508:atcmd_submit() submitting command `AT+CPIN="8137"' Aug 10 10:26:56 Thu Jan 1 00:39:16 1970 <1> atcmd.c:199:ml_parse() buf=`+CME ERROR: 15'(14) Aug 10 10:27:03 CME ERROR: 15 SIM wrong Aug 10 10:27:17 Jiten: there is an app called 'dasher' iirc that perhaps could be adapted to this purpose Aug 10 10:29:04 khaije1: I'll take a look at it. Aug 10 10:29:04 * khaije1 watching gits: solid state society Aug 10 10:30:02 looks like it does much the same, only in 2d Aug 10 10:32:32 looks like dasher would be worthy of porting even for gta1 Aug 10 10:38:52 it just has a few small problems. it works nicely if the predictor figures out what I want to type but absolutely horrible when it doesn't. Aug 10 10:40:33 ScaredyCat: nothing >_< Aug 10 10:44:07 my SIM card is not "compatible": Aug 10 10:44:25 Thu Jan 1 00:02:55 1970 <1> atcmd.c:508:atcmd_submit() submitting command `AT+CPIN="8137"' Aug 10 10:44:28 Thu Jan 1 00:02:57 1970 <1> atcmd.c:199:ml_parse() buf=`+CME ERROR: 15'(14) Aug 10 10:44:28 AHA! Aug 10 10:44:31 what now ? Aug 10 10:44:34 got it connected on my Mac Aug 10 10:53:08 the main problem is that you can't find the letter you want when all but the letters with very high propabilities are either too small or crowded in small spaces. Aug 10 10:54:44 dasher really could be implemented a bit better Aug 10 10:55:12 it practically tries to cram all letters into a single line. Aug 10 10:55:26 except the most propable ones Aug 10 10:55:45 this kind of system really should use a circle :/ Aug 10 10:56:45 the prediction algorithm seems to work quite well though Aug 10 10:56:48 openmoko: 03mickey * r2684 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer: openmoko theming: use moko-orange for dialer Aug 10 10:56:59 make it a circle then Aug 10 10:59:16 * ruoso back... in other office now... Aug 10 10:59:39 * ruoso hopes his connection stops falling Aug 10 10:59:59 I guess I will. I was planning on doing the whole thing on my own at some point if no-one had done it yet. Aug 10 11:01:28 make it so least likely are under the users thumb Aug 10 11:01:56 * ruoso sorry for asking again but... Aug 10 11:02:23 is there any clue on why the phone freezes in the boot screen just before the gauge bar completes? Aug 10 11:05:46 Me suggests looking at boot messages. Aug 10 11:06:35 how can I do that? I tried setting the console to usb, but after the kernel is loaded the device disappears Aug 10 11:07:39 * ruoso think will take the older version Aug 10 11:08:30 ruoso: a good idea ;) Aug 10 11:14:51 rtyler, which version should I take? Aug 10 11:14:57 2007.1 :D Aug 10 11:15:26 and that means which file? Aug 10 11:15:34 * ruoso still didn't get the naming schema Aug 10 11:16:39 ruoso: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/?C=M;O=D Aug 10 11:16:47 see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1 silly :) Aug 10 11:18:05 rtyler, I saw the SH1 page... Aug 10 11:18:51 rtyler, I was in that file listing Aug 10 11:19:00 grab the latest one from there? try it out :D Aug 10 11:19:02 I'm just unsure of which of them is "2007.1" Aug 10 11:19:19 pick one, I dunno :) Aug 10 11:19:29 that's not where the most recent are though, I'm relatively certain of that Aug 10 11:19:35 I already got 20070810 once Aug 10 11:19:41 and that's the one which fails on boot Aug 10 11:19:47 because that's far more recent Aug 10 11:19:53 ah... ok Aug 10 11:20:20 I used openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 successfully before Aug 10 11:20:26 with uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin Aug 10 11:21:18 hrm, I think it's my Linux box instead of my 2007.2 Neo Aug 10 11:28:21 buildhost.openmoko.org seems a little busy... only 40KB/s Aug 10 11:29:30 Hi, can someone tell me how to get into u-boot DFU mode? If I just press aux+power, I am apparently in runtime mode ... Aug 10 11:30:08 dfu-util will do that for you Aug 10 11:30:19 ruoso: hmmm, apparently not :( Aug 10 11:30:33 alech: press aux, then hold down power until it boots and you'll boot into u-boot Aug 10 11:30:35 it does for me Aug 10 11:30:41 :) Aug 10 11:30:43 then you can plug it into your box, and dfu-util away Aug 10 11:30:46 alech: you have to run dfu-util twice Aug 10 11:30:53 twice? Aug 10 11:30:56 yeh Aug 10 11:31:03 erm, no you don't Aug 10 11:31:03 robster, I didn't need that Aug 10 11:31:14 maybe that's been fixed then Aug 10 11:31:22 unless I lucked out and only had to do it once with my GTA01 ;) Aug 10 11:31:30 what does dfu-util -l say for you in u-boot? Aug 10 11:31:32 so did I Aug 10 11:31:46 I only get "Found Runtime: ..." Aug 10 11:32:05 but I thought I was supposed to get "Found DFU mode" ...? Aug 10 11:32:11 was you? Aug 10 11:32:14 I don't think so Aug 10 11:32:29 dfu changes the mode while uploading Aug 10 11:32:31 the ima Aug 10 11:32:31 ge Aug 10 11:32:35 the Dfu-util wike page says so. Aug 10 11:32:37 ah, ok. Aug 10 11:34:09 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2685 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: Aug 10 11:34:09 openmoko: gsmd.c: Send \r before draining tty so the modem discards any garbage that Aug 10 11:34:09 openmoko: was sent before. Aug 10 11:34:39 so, which images do I want? Aug 10 11:35:43 try the one rtyles showed me Aug 10 11:35:53 the 20070810 images didn't work for me Aug 10 11:36:18 sorry, don't have the history for that. are those the ones on chooseopen.com? Aug 10 11:36:57 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/?C=M;O=D Aug 10 11:37:04 200708031138 Aug 10 11:37:25 and kernel 2.6.21.6-moko10-r1 Aug 10 11:37:38 I'm still flashing Aug 10 11:37:39 that Aug 10 11:37:48 ok, I'll try that, too :) Aug 10 11:38:02 flashing the rootfs takes way tooo much time Aug 10 11:38:05 I guess I'd want the jffs2? Aug 10 11:38:15 that's the one I'm using... Aug 10 11:40:40 as for the kernel, do I want z or uImage? Aug 10 11:40:44 u Aug 10 11:40:50 ok ... Aug 10 11:40:57 (whatever that stands for) Aug 10 11:42:04 ok, seems like this dasher is usable now that I noticed a couple of things that make it a non issue that I can't tell the letters apart :) Aug 10 11:43:09 * ruoso will start a new page at wiki Aug 10 11:43:13 listing the releases Aug 10 11:43:18 and test reports for each of them Aug 10 11:43:29 listing all the files in each release Aug 10 11:44:48 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2686 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: * Add missing parameter to write Aug 10 11:45:14 ruoso: that sounds like a good idea Aug 10 11:46:04 I'll have to try again later, dfu-util apparently can not set my device to dfu mode. But this might be the case because the host is not running on real hardware but in a Parallels VM ... Aug 10 11:49:29 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing Aug 10 11:52:46 where can i get the binary for gps that is mentioned in the wiki? Aug 10 11:52:58 ruoso, please add link to images, as there are several different builds Aug 10 11:54:26 mdt: It's a commercial piece of software which has not got a license for distribution. Aug 10 11:54:53 SpeedEvil, is there any other way to do gps right now? Aug 10 11:55:07 SpeedEvil, and: why is it mentioned in the wiki that it is in the image? Aug 10 11:55:28 because that is outdated, and nobodies fixed. Aug 10 11:55:51 At the moment, you can't get the software legally unfortunately. Aug 10 11:56:22 SpeedEvil, is it confirmed? Aug 10 11:56:32 SpeedEvil, hm... that's really sad. what do you think how long will it take? Aug 10 11:57:39 SpeedEvil, or: is there any information on how the hammerhead is read? Aug 10 11:57:41 Dunno. Aug 10 11:57:46 Is what confirmed? Aug 10 11:58:06 Legal status of gllin Aug 10 11:58:08 mdt: very much in progress - a working opensource driver is at least months away Aug 10 11:58:14 Dmitry_Platonov: was on the mailing list Aug 10 12:00:49 SpeedEvil, found it. Aug 10 12:03:36 Are you updating the wiki? Aug 10 12:03:38 But did not found any mention about license. Aug 10 12:03:42 Or should I Aug 10 12:04:03 basically the phrasing was something like : Aug 10 12:04:19 We are negotiating with global locate terms to release the GPS binary Aug 10 12:04:30 here is it http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008466.html Aug 10 12:04:47 i just flashed my neo, and tried making a call.. it dials but the speaker and mic don't work. is this a bug or is it not implemented yet? Aug 10 12:05:02 the audio state files are wrong. Aug 10 12:05:08 search the wiki for alsactl Aug 10 12:05:20 cool thanks Aug 10 12:05:52 bitplane: its not really implemented yet, you need to manually switch profiles Aug 10 12:06:59 ah sweet Aug 10 12:07:11 also.. is there a SIM list i can add my working SIM to? Aug 10 12:07:11 SpeedEvil, please update wiki. I do not know where to place this info. Aug 10 12:07:16 k Aug 10 12:15:44 hmmm... Aug 10 12:15:52 how can I insert the pin code? Aug 10 12:15:59 it didn't ask for it Aug 10 12:16:51 hi guys... Aug 10 12:18:37 I am having trouble building python-gtk2, it says it cannot find the python headers Aug 10 12:18:38 my output is here Aug 10 12:18:40 http://www.pastebin.ca/652279 Aug 10 12:18:49 can anyone help out? Aug 10 12:19:23 does anyone here use emacs for openmoko development? need .emacs file to know how to handle spaces in .c code Aug 10 12:20:42 is there a way to know how much current is used by the phone currently? Aug 10 12:21:21 mike1234567890, you need to install python-dev ? Aug 10 12:21:34 mdt, you mean battery status ? Aug 10 12:21:34 mdt, direct measurement Aug 10 12:22:42 mdt: no. Aug 10 12:22:49 mdt: not directly. Aug 10 12:22:57 You need to splice into the battery connection. Aug 10 12:23:15 Or less accurately, the USB. Aug 10 12:23:31 I use gentoo, are you talking about installing on the host? My host has all the python headers and there are also in the staging directory in the correct location Aug 10 12:23:47 gentoo D: Aug 10 12:24:10 staging/x86_64-linux/include/python2.4/ exists and has Python.h in it Aug 10 12:24:15 * Dmitry_Platonov uses gentoo too. Aug 10 12:24:26 * rtyler grumbles, Aug 10 12:24:47 i use it.. and debian.. and ubuntu.. and fedora -_- Aug 10 12:24:50 fun fun Aug 10 12:25:05 any of you proficient with the Linux kernel? seems my kernel refuses to recognize the Neo now for some reason Aug 10 12:25:11 ei mike1234567890, config.log would be helpful Aug 10 12:25:13 from the build dire Aug 10 12:25:14 *dir Aug 10 12:25:27 http://www.pastebin.ca/652279 <- config log Aug 10 12:25:34 no the file config.log Aug 10 12:25:37 from the config script Aug 10 12:25:46 there is a wierd message about a file not found just above the 'python not found' message Aug 10 12:26:02 define 'recognises the neo' rtyler. Aug 10 12:26:04 rtyler, what is your kernel? what do you see in /var/log/messages Aug 10 12:26:37 oh.. hmm Aug 10 12:26:44 does openmoko build fortran by default? Aug 10 12:26:45 * anrp looks Aug 10 12:27:23 ruoso: have you found out how to enter the PIN? Aug 10 12:27:55 it doesn't build fortran by default Aug 10 12:27:59 RedDog, use libgsmdtool, or manually with AT+CPIN? Aug 10 12:27:59 RedDog, not yet... Aug 10 12:28:09 ah... Aug 10 12:28:17 that's a clue Aug 10 12:28:23 is there a command for that? Aug 10 12:28:40 printf 'AT+CPINxxxx\r\n' > /dev/ttySAC0 is the wrong way! Aug 10 12:29:04 mbuf: http://rafb.net/p/YWqZXO30.html Aug 10 12:29:26 sry... here is config.log Aug 10 12:29:31 ruoso, RedDog http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Aug 10 12:29:44 http://www.pastebin.ca/652293 Aug 10 12:30:48 mbuf: nice, but how is the dialer or whatever triggered to ask me ... Aug 10 12:30:53 rtyler, check "/bin/lsmod | grep usb" for any cdc_acm or cdc_ether module Aug 10 12:31:00 lines 1051-1055 Aug 10 12:31:14 you're on 64 bit.. maybe thats why it has a confused definition Aug 10 12:31:20 RedDog, i have not used the dialer, yet Aug 10 12:31:25 mbuf: cdc_ether is tacked onto usbnet Aug 10 12:31:32 then: Aug 10 12:31:32 usbcore 134280 7 cdc_ether,usbnet,cdc_acm,usbhid,ehci_hcd,ohci_hcd Aug 10 12:32:43 ahh Aug 10 12:33:01 :( - nobody likes us 64-bitters Aug 10 12:33:05 rtyler, disconnect and plug it back in; did you setup usb0 in /etc/network/interfaces? Aug 10 12:33:19 mike1234567890: can you post pyconfig.h Aug 10 12:33:28 shoud be in /home/mike/Projects/openmoko/mokobuild/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/include/python2.4/pyconfig.h Aug 10 12:33:38 mbuf: /etc/network/interfaces is setup according to the USB_Networking page Aug 10 12:34:19 yay: python & openmoko = ++fun_hacking; Aug 10 12:34:41 mbuf: replugging it doesn't change anything :/ Aug 10 12:34:42 i hope so :) Aug 10 12:34:53 Placid: congrats! I can't wait to get python on mine :) Aug 10 12:35:24 http://www.pastebin.ca/652295 <- pyconfig.h Aug 10 12:35:25 Placid, is python really fast on the hardware? good to see battery life Aug 10 12:35:35 rtyler: I haven't got a neo yet, I was merely referring to arnp's last message. I'm waiting for the P2 release :) Aug 10 12:35:41 yep Aug 10 12:35:48 python build is using info from the host Aug 10 12:35:58 anrp: you can't just bitbake it? Aug 10 12:36:05 probably python builds small configure programs that figure out the sizeof(long) etc Aug 10 12:36:16 however they're wrong since they're run on the host... Aug 10 12:36:54 that's the long way of saying "it's broke" Aug 10 12:37:02 maybe fixable... would have to look at python Aug 10 12:37:26 rtyler: i think mike1234567890 is using bitbake Aug 10 12:37:40 however he's probably one of the few building on a non-32-bit host Aug 10 12:37:52 yeah - i added this line to my local.conf Aug 10 12:38:29 DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS += "python-pycairo python-dbus python-imaging python-pygoogle python-pybluez python-pygtk2 python-lxml" Aug 10 12:39:11 i had other problems too :( - psyco is not available, but it is not REQUIRED like the docs imply Aug 10 12:39:14 rtyler, how come there are no configuraton chosen messages in your log Aug 10 12:39:27 Wooo! Last day at work... and I'm almost done with the work I procrastinated on :) Aug 10 12:39:48 rtyler, i see "configuration #1 chosen from 2 choices"; did you change Moko kernel or host kernel? Aug 10 12:39:50 what do you mean, configuration chosen messages? Aug 10 12:40:20 rtyler, in /var/log/messages; the host has to choose which configuration of the USB device it is going to operate with Aug 10 12:40:20 mbuf: host has remained the same, I did flash it with 'uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin' ealier this evening Aug 10 12:40:35 hmm Aug 10 12:40:46 any way to post the output of the python build process Aug 10 12:40:51 nto sure where it'd be tho.. sec Aug 10 12:40:52 rtyler, oh, so you changed the Neo images? ok Aug 10 12:40:54 interestingly, when I restarted gsmd and then started the dialer, the dialer asked me for a pin code Aug 10 12:41:15 I still couldn't make a call Aug 10 12:41:29 but using libgsmd-tool I saw it already registered to the network Aug 10 12:41:33 ruoso, in recent images, for gsmd to work, i had to restart gsmd Aug 10 12:41:41 er, wait a sec Aug 10 12:42:03 that's using the wrong python entirely Aug 10 12:42:08 i just downloaded the latest image and managed to make a call, though couldnt hear anything but it did call and recieve calls Aug 10 12:42:39 raynet, check audio settings? Aug 10 12:42:59 raynet: nice, I couldn't receive calls, but had the same sound issue Aug 10 12:43:05 /home/mike/Projects/openmoko/mokobuild/build/tmp/staging/arm-linux Aug 10 12:43:13 one of the reasons, mbuf, I wanted to try this newer uImage Aug 10 12:43:13 is there python anything in there? Aug 10 12:43:26 mbuf: no time, but had to test it and it "worked" Aug 10 12:43:29 rtyler, ok Aug 10 12:43:39 raynet, cool Aug 10 12:44:11 mbuf: where are the audio settings? Aug 10 12:44:11 * Dmitry_Platonov wants neo... Aug 10 12:44:27 rtyler, lsusb doesn't show the device at all, so it looks like USB enumeration didn't succeed Aug 10 12:44:51 bugger, any tips? Aug 10 12:44:52 raynet, htp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem Aug 10 12:45:20 usb enumeration does depend on u-boot working.. Aug 10 12:45:29 mbuf: heh Aug 10 12:45:49 * anrp hands mbuf a t Aug 10 12:46:01 yes - in include/python2.4/ there are all the headers, there seems to be an extra file Python-ast.h (which is empty) Aug 10 12:46:38 anrp, ? Aug 10 12:46:47 so you have to somehow direct the configure script to use the python stuff in arm-linux, not x86_64-linux Aug 10 12:46:53 which prog were you building? Aug 10 12:46:59 mbuf: your link was not http D: Aug 10 12:47:19 anrp, sorry Aug 10 12:47:42 ~_~ Aug 10 12:47:51 :/ Aug 10 12:48:32 god that Audio_System page is turning into a mess Aug 10 12:48:35 I think I made a call, but it seems it didn't routed the sound correctly Aug 10 12:48:55 ruoso: alsactl -f /etc/gsmhandset.state restore Aug 10 12:49:21 * mattzerah is away: I'm busy Aug 10 12:49:27 * XorA wil have to see if he can find time to clean the bogusness out of that page and make it make sense Aug 10 12:49:35 * mattzerah is back (gone 00:00:12) Aug 10 12:50:01 hmmm Aug 10 12:50:06 XorA, no soundcards found Aug 10 12:50:08 that's odd Aug 10 12:50:23 ruoso: modprobe snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 Aug 10 12:51:05 mbuf: am I screwed? :/ Aug 10 12:51:33 rtyler, try older images? Aug 10 12:52:01 well, the thing doesn't "show" up on the USB bus for dfu-util, I'm trying to put an older image on it :P Aug 10 12:52:05 hmm Aug 10 12:52:11 I have a mismatching kernel Aug 10 12:52:21 ruoso: that wont help ;-) Aug 10 12:52:24 you are pressing the aux button, then the power button? rtyler/ Aug 10 12:52:34 and getting a boot menu? Aug 10 12:52:38 yep Aug 10 12:52:56 dfu-util gets upset running though hubs Aug 10 12:53:05 heh, calling from latest "stable" image doesnt work on my, but the non-official image i used did work Aug 10 12:53:10 it's plugged into the front of my machine :) Aug 10 12:53:30 rtyler: cool, just making sure, I fell foul of that one and I should have known better Aug 10 12:55:20 * rtyler ponders Aug 10 12:55:29 I'm interested, how much people who ordered neo are developers? Aug 10 12:55:43 Dmitry_Platonov: depends on the kind of developer you're looking for ;) Aug 10 12:55:52 Dmitry_Platonov, i am Aug 10 12:56:15 * ruoso too Aug 10 12:56:20 * SpeedEvil four. Aug 10 12:56:29 XorA: I plugged the device into my MacBook Pro and it came up, and I could get into the console properly, but I can't really flash from there (and the usb network settings were really fucked) Aug 10 12:56:33 * rtyler five? Aug 10 12:56:33 Dmitry_Platonov: I guess there are different kinds of developers. I'm working on some other projects, I want neo to have something 'to play with', maybe hack something simple, but not fulltime hacking. Aug 10 12:56:38 I want to be a developer. six. Aug 10 12:56:44 * mmp possibly five and half Aug 10 12:56:48 heh Aug 10 12:57:01 synchronizatione rror! condition race! Aug 10 12:57:15 Then there is a 'willing to develop if I can get to an understandable dev environment.'. Aug 10 12:57:22 :) Aug 10 12:57:25 rtyler: all else fails it is possible to flash from a microSD card Aug 10 12:57:28 which I suspect is a large subset of people. Aug 10 12:57:36 rtyler: as long as you can get to usb-serial console Aug 10 12:58:13 * Elrond 2 pi Aug 10 12:58:41 after telling my mom all the reasons why I wanted this phone, she said "that sounds on all levels like a phone I would not like".. so I guess I might be interested in trying to turn that impression upside down by means of software :) Aug 10 12:58:58 uh oh Aug 10 12:59:03 it failed the tilly test Aug 10 12:59:19 or maybe it was just my sales kit that was not polished Aug 10 12:59:54 xkr47 - Rule 1: Never tell people, that _they_ could write software for it. ;-) Aug 10 13:00:28 * xkr47 thinks we should have pages on wiki with different customer groups that we (might) want to target and develop "sales kits" for them Aug 10 13:00:48 i.e. how to advertise, what to advertise, and what it requires from the phone Aug 10 13:00:50 XorA: the tough part will be getting the stuff onto the micro SD card >_< Aug 10 13:00:55 xkr47, i am actually interested in preparing customer support guides Aug 10 13:00:56 if that's my last option Aug 10 13:01:02 you have a digital camera that takes sd? Aug 10 13:01:07 most act as a card reader with usb Aug 10 13:01:08 mbuf, ok great.. Aug 10 13:01:12 xkr47, give it some month or years for your mom... right now it's a device for geeks Aug 10 13:01:14 rtyler: oh, I have more SD card readers than I have limbs Aug 10 13:01:27 XorA: email me one plz kthx ;) Aug 10 13:01:32 xkr47, i am just waiting for an official 2007.2 release, once the builds don't break often, take pictures and prepare them Aug 10 13:01:35 ...? Aug 10 13:01:40 better than faxing one Aug 10 13:01:42 i guess Aug 10 13:01:43 ... Aug 10 13:02:07 mdt yeah.. tried to tell that it's the aim, not the current state.. Aug 10 13:02:10 mbuf: great idea, auf Deutsch oder in English? Aug 10 13:02:38 wonder if we should have categories for different releases in the wiki Aug 10 13:02:45 yeah, the fact that the first time i tried to build openmoko the proper way, it was broken in upstream, was more than a bit offputting Aug 10 13:03:27 anrp - Yeah, guess why I still have some 21.3 kernel on it. Cause it works 99&. Aug 10 13:03:35 s/&/% Aug 10 13:04:06 rtyler, ? Aug 10 13:04:13 i built a 2.6.22 for mine, but i had to do some convoluted tricks since i didn't have u-boot Aug 10 13:04:18 (because u-boot was the broken package) Aug 10 13:04:18 thhe guides, which language would they be in :) Aug 10 13:04:31 i did get qvga going though, finally Aug 10 13:04:33 english please Aug 10 13:04:37 :) Aug 10 13:04:48 http://atocha.mit.edu/~anrp/neo_neo/ Aug 10 13:04:57 rtyler - well, someone can trnslate them / adapt them for specific countries. Aug 10 13:04:58 they need to be translated into lots of languages Aug 10 13:04:59 rtyler, english, but, would like volunteers to freely translate them; customers don't like wikis; they _require_ product support guides Aug 10 13:05:25 quickstart guides with pictures == multilingual Aug 10 13:06:11 you're kidding yourself on some level if you really believe that Aug 10 13:06:30 ScaredyCat, and when they sell the phones, we can insert the guides with built-in flash or SD-card so they can just plug it in and view it; rather than having to download or look in the Internet Aug 10 13:06:33 sure, it might get 90% of the way Aug 10 13:06:39 but to be polished it has to go further Aug 10 13:07:26 anrp, master of the blindingly obvious... Aug 10 13:08:02 i try my best Aug 10 13:08:03 :D Aug 10 13:08:13 sometimes it's not that obvious though Aug 10 13:08:16 a keyboard with 6 keys would be enough to type any letter and some extra characters with 2 keypresses each. Aug 10 13:08:57 on a touchscreen you could easily make it self-documenting Aug 10 13:11:29 just 4 keys would enough for 3 keypresses each (64 combos)... that would be enough to make it not necessary to move your fingers. Aug 10 13:13:29 that dasher predictive text input system has one rather big flaw. I can't read other text while I write. Aug 10 13:14:24 especially a problem with irc :) Aug 10 13:15:03 phew! Aug 10 13:15:10 finally found an SD Card reader in the office Aug 10 13:15:27 so now the better question is, from my Linux box, how to get the kernel image on the disk so I can restore it on the Neo Aug 10 13:16:00 Dasher is cool - if you can stare at the display all the time. Aug 10 13:16:13 SpeedEvil: yes, that's what I noticed. Aug 10 13:16:53 the notion that it's an 'optimal' input system, with a minimal number of bits also assumes that you're running it from a binary time-sliced input device. Aug 10 13:17:02 dasher with transparency? Aug 10 13:17:05 Which is not the case. Aug 10 13:17:08 speaking of which... are there any speech recognition systems which would be available to put on the phone? Aug 10 13:17:10 Not the problem. Aug 10 13:17:28 the problem is that you have to basically stare at the dasher interface to 'negotiate' it. Aug 10 13:17:33 true Aug 10 13:17:45 does one just copy the uImage.bin over to the SD Disk, and then will u-boot be able to unpack it? Aug 10 13:18:02 look on the [[Bootloader]] page. Aug 10 13:18:15 It probably doesn't help quite enough, but gives you an idea. Aug 10 13:18:26 used speechlion (script based on sphinx4) Aug 10 13:18:41 but I think would be too big to run on moko Aug 10 13:18:50 hi all Aug 10 13:19:37 can someone explain me exactly what's going on with the mailing list? I verified my subscriptions, all is OK, but i didn't receive a single mail since August 8! Aug 10 13:20:11 /topic Aug 10 13:20:22 sorry... Aug 10 13:20:30 OK then :D Aug 10 13:20:53 It's broken. Aug 10 13:20:53 * HistoryOnTheRoad peeks in Aug 10 13:20:57 openmoko: 03shoragan * r2687 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.22.x/patches/ (openmoko-logo.patch series): Display the OpenMoko logo instead of Tux. Aug 10 13:21:12 * HistoryOnTheRoad jumps on mailman to let out the damn mail on the mail list Aug 10 13:21:14 Laforge posted a couple of days ago 'sita down for administrative reasons'. Aug 10 13:21:18 on here. Aug 10 13:21:44 sorry for off-topic, but i'm looking for some shop, where I could buy mp3 using paypal -- is there such? Aug 10 13:21:51 someone FIC intern around here? Aug 10 13:21:52 Good news: Fido in Canada DOES work with the neo (and GSM works too on my phone -- yay). No onto sound :P Aug 10 13:21:53 Why he couldn't have said 'the mailing list machine', which would have been understood by a thousand times the people, is .... Aug 10 13:22:14 we have a serious problem with UMTSv2 SIM cards, that do not interoperate with the TI GSM hardware in the Neo ... Aug 10 13:22:16 rxr: Why? Aug 10 13:22:19 SpeedEvil: because it's not only mailing list machine? Aug 10 13:22:41 man getting the SD card in and out is a fucking nightmare >_< Aug 10 13:22:56 you don't lost it easily then :p Aug 10 13:23:00 1I just had some quite long and phonecalls with O2 Germany due to this UMTSv2 SIM cards ... Aug 10 13:23:01 rtyler: They could have soldered it in :P Aug 10 13:23:02 ynezz: however, specifying the functions, rather than the obscure name, which nobody knows... Aug 10 13:23:11 rxr: there are issues with various Aug 10 13:23:15 SIM providers Aug 10 13:23:43 hardware compatibility with the TI chip? Aug 10 13:23:52 is there a known cause, solution, plan ? Aug 10 13:23:58 so, share the 'closed hardware' pain with us! Aug 10 13:24:30 rxr: there is a evil bug #666 for this Aug 10 13:24:39 is there a wiki page about it bugzilla entry Aug 10 13:24:42 #666 ? Aug 10 13:24:42 maybe you can extend it with your info Aug 10 13:24:43 rxr: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 10 13:24:57 rxr: yes, on bugzilla Aug 10 13:25:03 !ombug 666 Aug 10 13:25:04 * * Bug 666, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown Aug 10 13:25:05 * * steven.demetrius(AT)fiwwi.com: 3G SIM capability Aug 10 13:25:06 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Aug 10 13:25:36 nice number tho :p Aug 10 13:25:36 that is not about 3G Aug 10 13:25:42 but same problem Aug 10 13:25:42 I have two UMTS, G3 cards here Aug 10 13:25:46 It's misnamed. Aug 10 13:25:48 one from 2006 and one from 2007 Aug 10 13:25:50 It's not only 3D Aug 10 13:25:53 It's not only 3G Aug 10 13:25:54 the 2006 UMTS SIM cards just works fine Aug 10 13:26:21 nice, so write your problem to buzilla Aug 10 13:26:30 FIC engineers have access to TI firware, so I think it will be fixed by FIC or TI Aug 10 13:26:43 nobody than fic/ti can fix it Aug 10 13:26:46 I don't think FIC has access to source. Aug 10 13:26:50 As I understand it. Aug 10 13:27:06 They get the binary blobs to flash the modem with only. Aug 10 13:27:15 damnit. This looks like it's going to be complex trying to boot and restore from the SD card >_< Aug 10 13:27:21 Indeed. Aug 10 13:28:13 mbuf: ever done it? :/ Aug 10 13:29:25 SpeedEvil, http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=GTA01_gsm_modem Aug 10 13:30:44 what is the SKU in this compatbibility table ? Aug 10 13:30:57 the first 5 numbers of the ICCID ? Aug 10 13:31:54 ... http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/e7e48a137b144110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html Chinese iPhone clone... MMS, 3rd Party apps... who cares about multitouch? Aug 10 13:32:05 * rtyler does :) Aug 10 13:33:41 rtyler: as far as the iphone uses it... I could do without Aug 10 13:33:46 rtyler: having played with it Aug 10 13:34:42 used properly it could help the overall usablility of the device, especially since there's so few input methods *tap* *tap* Aug 10 13:35:13 I think the key point is 'used properly' Aug 10 13:35:51 crap, looks like I'll have to format the SD card like a mini linux partition Aug 10 13:36:03 and load the kernel on there from the bin file somehow Aug 10 13:36:04 rtyler, which one? Aug 10 13:36:13 mbuf: what do you mean which one? Aug 10 13:36:26 Kheldar: Thanks - Ill have a look around, I wont get my hopes up though Aug 10 13:36:57 rtyler, "ever done it" Aug 10 13:37:20 restored, say your kernel on the Neo, from an SD card Aug 10 13:37:24 or booted from it even Aug 10 13:37:39 trying to regress the version of what's on my Neo to something less..broken >_< Aug 10 13:37:56 openmoko: 03shoragan * r2688 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (openmoko-logo.patch series): Use patch from 2.6.22 for 2.6.21. Aug 10 13:38:48 nope Aug 10 13:42:43 huh, i got an unreadable cingular sim Aug 10 13:44:47 dasher seems pretty nice. the only thing that bothers me that a lot of the time I can see where I want to go, my mouse is on top of it and I have to wait a second or two for the zoomer to get there. can't help thinking I'd like to click there and have it zoom there at turbo instead of the crawl it seems to think works for me. Aug 10 13:44:54 works in my other phones... Aug 10 13:44:59 guess it's just an issue with the ti fw Aug 10 13:45:58 now where'd my sim card holder go Aug 10 13:46:45 * rtyler points over there Aug 10 13:47:03 behind my monitor ~_~ Aug 10 13:47:39 ok, click mode at fastest speed feels better... except that it's still too slow :/ Aug 10 13:50:39 openmoko: 03wansti * r2689 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/ (clicks.rg touchscreen_click.wav): New touchscreen click sound Aug 10 13:50:55 openmoko: 03wansti * r2690 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/touchscreen_click.wav.mp3: New touchscreen click (mp3) Aug 10 13:50:57 there's gonna be a click sound? Aug 10 13:53:16 yay, my t-mobile sim works Aug 10 13:53:26 t-mo us Aug 10 13:57:51 mbuf: you mentioned earlier the kernel possible having the wrong usb signature or something, I'm wondering how that would affect it now showing up to the host in u-boot? (since the host hasn't changed) Aug 10 13:58:48 I suppose most UK SIMs should work, Aug 10 14:00:21 * rtyler also didn't update uboot Aug 10 14:01:13 rtyler, the device has to present the USB configurations to the host PC when connected; after u-boot loads, Linux kernel starts, and USB on the device starts Aug 10 14:01:40 rtyler, might have to snoop USB traffic to see what's going on Aug 10 14:02:42 that doesn't track, usb on the device has to startup on uboot else dfu-util wouldn't work Aug 10 14:02:53 (and I wouldn't see some of the messages in /var/log/messages) Aug 10 14:03:13 nah Aug 10 14:03:21 device sense is simply resistors across the data lines Aug 10 14:03:30 so it might not actually be starting usb Aug 10 14:03:58 rtyler, i thought you were asking on the neo not being detected on the host PC after Linux loads Aug 10 14:04:00 probably not the answer you want though D: Aug 10 14:04:03 Aug 10 07:01:09 ccnet kernel: [1441268.060000] usb 1-8: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 9 Aug 10 14:04:15 mbuf: oh no, it doesn't get detected on the host anymore right at uboot Aug 10 14:05:22 I don't want to brick my Neo, but I'm still super curious as to what Factory Reset does :P Aug 10 14:05:53 mbuf: from u-boot, the device will show up and is contactable from my Mac, but no longer from my Linux host, despite nothing changing on either Aug 10 14:07:33 rtyler, from u-boot when connected to Debian Etch, it shows up as CDC-ACM device, as /dev/ttyACM0; check your /var/log/messages Aug 10 14:07:49 mbuf: I am, that entry above is what it pastes Aug 10 14:07:58 but not ttyACM0 is ever created Aug 10 14:08:15 Do you have cdc_acm in the kernel? Aug 10 14:08:51 rtyler, for me it says in /var/log/messages, configuration #1 chosen from 2 devices, and cdc_acm module is chosen; this is required to use DFU operation Aug 10 14:09:08 SpeedEvil: yes, I put a newer snapshot of OM on the device last night (earlier :'(), from the same host :P Aug 10 14:09:20 http://pastebin.ca/652394 Aug 10 14:10:07 I'm debating whether or not something could have possible just gone wacky with my Linux box, and whether or not I should sacrifice all my running services and just reboot the host >_< Aug 10 14:11:23 rtyler, is cdc_acm module loaded on the host PC? Aug 10 14:11:36 mbuf: see the pastebin post Aug 10 14:11:49 it's there, but not there Aug 10 14:11:51 ?? Aug 10 14:11:54 rtyler, sorry, missed that one Aug 10 14:12:06 try rmmod cdc_adm; modprobe cdc_acm Aug 10 14:12:23 rtyler, which distro are you using? Aug 10 14:12:27 Feisty Aug 10 14:12:52 O_O http://pastebin.ca/652397 Aug 10 14:13:12 gak Aug 10 14:13:15 rogue period Aug 10 14:13:33 rtyler, what do you see in /var/log/messages, it is cdc_acm Aug 10 14:13:37 well, guess it doesn't matter, still sprews the same error Aug 10 14:13:44 mbuf: when I plug in the device? Aug 10 14:14:05 rtyler, yes Aug 10 14:14:18 also Aug 10 14:14:22 not cdc_adm Aug 10 14:14:31 acm Aug 10 14:14:40 d'oh Aug 10 14:14:42 and you need to sudo modprobe Aug 10 14:14:47 rtyler, if you don't see cdc_acm, then it is not built as a module in the kernel, check with ubuntu Aug 10 14:15:05 Aug 10 07:16:23 ccnet kernel: [1442182.008000] usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_acm Aug 10 14:15:08 Aug 10 07:16:23 ccnet kernel: [1442182.008000] drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: v0.25:USB Abstract Control Model driver for USB modems and ISDN adapters Aug 10 14:15:12 now to power up the device >_> Aug 10 14:15:57 hrm, same as previously Aug 10 14:16:19 rtyler, power up the device, enter u-boot mode, then plug it into the host pC Aug 10 14:16:24 rtyler, *PC Aug 10 14:18:00 *grumbles* Aug 10 14:18:02 same crap Aug 10 14:18:14 the module is being loaded it seems, or so /var/log/messages says Aug 10 14:18:33 rtyler, just tell us what it says; don't describe it for us Aug 10 14:19:01 http://pastebin.ca/652401 Aug 10 14:19:40 updated: http://pastebin.ca/652403 Aug 10 14:20:12 I found some more information about my pygtk2 error... According to this post it should have been fixed Aug 10 14:20:14 http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2007-March/001722.html Aug 10 14:20:30 but it isnt :( Aug 10 14:20:37 rtyler, the configuration is not being chosen, and hence cdc_acm doesn't take control of the USB device, and hence dfu-util will not work Aug 10 14:20:49 gtg, catch you later Aug 10 14:20:58 cliffhanger! Aug 10 14:21:07 wonder how I force the right configuration' Aug 10 14:25:23 I'm wondering if it's because the device doesn't seem to properly unregister on the USB bus, so the 'usb address' has been incrementingly slowly all night Aug 10 14:25:46 that would only matter I suppose if cdc_acm is still attached to an unregister usb address Aug 10 14:34:46 hmm the touchscreen sound is very nice ... but this x start/boot sound is not my style ... Aug 10 14:36:13 yeah, too bad you can't do anything about it Aug 10 14:36:18 oh wait, I mistook this for the iPhone Aug 10 14:36:25 *rimshot* Aug 10 14:36:37 "And mjr comes out swinging!" Aug 10 14:38:06 I think my Linux machine has just caught a case of the stupidz Aug 10 14:38:12 my Mac is working fine with it Aug 10 14:44:07 yo.. Aug 10 14:44:31 the [[Flashing_openmoko]] page says that one needs to erase rootfs if the new image is smaller than the old Aug 10 14:44:38 does this only apply to the rootfs partition ? Aug 10 14:45:54 xkr47: i thought this bug was fixed? Aug 10 14:46:04 is it a bug ?-) Aug 10 14:48:12 hmm... Aug 10 14:48:17 * ruoso still don't get sound in his calls Aug 10 14:49:25 * xkr47 does not see any mentions of such a bug in bugzilla Aug 10 14:49:30 (searched for "erase") Aug 10 14:55:32 Hmm. Aug 10 14:55:39 Just had my first hard-lockup. Aug 10 14:56:19 USB dead, no response on touchscreen... Aug 10 14:57:56 jtag ?-) Aug 10 14:58:35 * SpeedEvil stabs xkr47 with a non-existant JTAG board. Aug 10 14:59:18 * xkr47 screams without loading the alsa drivers Aug 10 15:01:11 * SpeedEvil notes a strange vibration. Aug 10 15:02:26 * nox-Hand wants Neo1973 Aug 10 15:03:17 * ruoso still don't have any sound Aug 10 15:03:32 * jeddy3 is not very good applying screen protectors x_X Aug 10 15:03:34 * nox-Hand still has a Sony Ericsson W810i Aug 10 15:03:52 nox-Hand, welll... it's still not ready for real usage Aug 10 15:04:12 * xkr47 is still very happy with his neo Aug 10 15:04:24 ruoso: I know :) Good nuff for geeks though ;) Aug 10 15:04:34 I think I will wait for mass market release if I can afford it though Aug 10 15:05:06 xkr47, me too... but I don't expect using it as a real phone yet Aug 10 15:05:49 yeah Aug 10 15:06:00 so is it so that I don't need to erase nand at all anymore ? Aug 10 15:06:21 i didn't and it seems to work Aug 10 15:06:44 have you flashed from a bigger to a smaller image ? Aug 10 15:06:51 yes Aug 10 15:07:02 rootfs or kernel or both ? Aug 10 15:07:23 kernels are all around 1.5M Aug 10 15:07:29 yeah but Aug 10 15:07:32 rootfs was like from 40M to 31M Aug 10 15:07:49 hmm Aug 10 15:08:41 sigh. i still couldn get my host to talk to the debug board Aug 10 15:08:50 :/ Aug 10 15:13:06 sometimes gsm works fiine... sometimes not... Aug 10 15:13:32 what I do: startup, go to the little icon above, power on, autoregister Aug 10 15:14:58 Good Morning all. Anyone know more about 3g sims? Aug 10 15:15:23 daxxar: alive? Aug 10 15:24:48 hmm my moko is in a strange state.. screensaver (or similar) activated due to idle Aug 10 15:24:53 but it didn't react to tapping the screen Aug 10 15:25:00 try pressing the top button Aug 10 15:25:03 pressing the power button quickly makes the screen flash Aug 10 15:25:12 the aux button does nothing Aug 10 15:25:22 if I press the power button again, it flashes again Aug 10 15:25:35 Annoying. Aug 10 15:25:44 is this typical behaviour in powered-off mode or .. Aug 10 15:26:13 No. Aug 10 15:26:19 if I press the power button quickly while the phone is normally active, the current application vanishes, leaving a black hole in the middle Aug 10 15:26:20 It does that occasionally. Aug 10 15:26:32 that kills the current app Aug 10 15:26:41 yep... the window manager gets confused too often Aug 10 15:26:42 aha :D Aug 10 15:26:55 so it's the window manager that causes these "blackouts" :) Aug 10 15:27:14 is the aux button doing anything in X / matchbox currently? Aug 10 15:27:35 xkr47, when I boot my neo it doesn't leave anything but a black hole :) Aug 10 15:27:43 :O Aug 10 15:27:45 does anyone have a clue on how can I make sound work? Aug 10 15:28:04 SpeedEvil, suggested "way out" ? Aug 10 15:28:11 just power off by 5 sec ? Aug 10 15:28:12 ruoso, you have to start the alsasound service and load/set the options in alsamixer Aug 10 15:28:34 thomasg, is it in init.d? I didn't find anything related there Aug 10 15:29:01 should be, yes Aug 10 15:29:06 which service? Aug 10 15:29:14 no /etc/init.d/alsasound there? Aug 10 15:29:46 SpeedEvil, hmm! pressing power for three seconds booted the device up Aug 10 15:30:33 hmm Aug 10 15:30:40 thomasg, I have pulseaudio Aug 10 15:31:15 ruoso, let me check Aug 10 15:31:16 mom Aug 10 15:31:25 ruoso: dmesg | grep -i ASOC Aug 10 15:32:06 XorA, nothing Aug 10 15:32:16 ruoso: then you have no sound drivers installed Aug 10 15:32:32 modprobe snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 Aug 10 15:32:34 lsmod tells me I have Aug 10 15:32:36 ok next "issue".. after killing some app for testers, a bunch of seconds later, the backlight goes to 50% light mode, and slightly later completely off.. what's this all about :P Aug 10 15:32:56 XorA, that module was already loaded Aug 10 15:33:09 then alsactrl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore Aug 10 15:33:15 madplay test.mp3 Aug 10 15:33:36 /etc/alsa/stereoout.state Aug 10 15:35:13 hmm Aug 10 15:35:22 alsamixer show the channels Aug 10 15:35:48 but alsactl -f... restore tells me "No state is present for card neo973" Aug 10 15:36:16 what's in the ... Aug 10 15:36:20 what the first line of /etc/alsa/stereoout.state Aug 10 15:37:22 did you download that old one? Aug 10 15:37:47 in what package is cu ? Aug 10 15:37:56 xkr47: uucp Aug 10 15:38:02 * ruoso typing with the pen... Aug 10 15:38:05 thx Aug 10 15:38:23 state.neo1973 { Aug 10 15:38:49 cu_1.07-r0_armv4t.ipk Aug 10 15:38:49 ScaredyCat, using 200708031138 Aug 10 15:39:03 ruoso: then wierdness is going on Aug 10 15:39:08 nice... Aug 10 15:39:16 maybe I should try another image Aug 10 15:39:49 try one of mine Aug 10 15:40:01 only om2007.1 .. but hey Aug 10 15:40:32 hmm Aug 10 15:40:41 madplay now outputted something Aug 10 15:40:42 :) Aug 10 15:40:52 :))) Aug 10 15:41:45 let's see if the calling works Aug 10 15:45:50 does the aux-button work in openmoko-gui somewhere? Aug 10 15:46:05 I didn't find any yet :) Aug 10 15:46:34 for me it seems the kernel does not return useful stuff with this button... Aug 10 15:47:10 ok... after the reboot madplay always outputs sound Aug 10 15:47:18 but the dialer don't. Aug 10 15:47:29 (i don't use openmoko-gui, i use directfb which translates raw kernel output from /dev/tty.. - but this is all-0) Aug 10 15:48:41 ruoso, afaik you need to change the mixer states for music / call output Aug 10 15:48:43 ruskie, how much cpu does madplay use? Aug 10 15:49:13 tuukkah, should I do it by hand? Aug 10 15:49:43 these stuff: alsactrl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore Aug 10 15:50:12 daxxar, there? Aug 10 15:51:13 * ruoso trying now with gsmhandset.state Aug 10 15:53:38 now gsm just lost itself Aug 10 15:53:47 * ruoso rebooting Aug 10 15:54:38 yay! my openmoko was just charged! Aug 10 15:55:27 i wasn't expecting that. :) Aug 10 15:56:19 * juri_ is rt #25xx, ordered advanced, black&silver Aug 10 15:56:56 sometimes the device just stop while shutting down Aug 10 16:02:23 wow... that time I got microphony Aug 10 16:04:12 * ruoso getting closer to something real... Aug 10 16:05:07 hi folks, does anyone knows if the current libftdi in debian sid is workable with our neo debug board v2? Aug 10 16:14:01 which nokia uses the same battery? Aug 10 16:16:17 heh killed the main menu in 2007.2 ... Aug 10 16:16:31 now the device won't shut down, even by pressing the power button for 9 seconds Aug 10 16:16:45 the keyboard and top status bar still works but I cannot shut it down Aug 10 16:16:47 :) Aug 10 16:17:44 do I have to pull the battery then :P Aug 10 16:18:02 * ruoso got some noise in the other phone this time Aug 10 16:18:07 NOTE: Unpacking /data/openmoko/openembedded/packages/gsm/files/gsmd to /data/openmoko/openmoko/tmp/work/fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libgsmd-0.1+svnrNOT IMPLEMENTED-r17/ Aug 10 16:18:08 but the dialer crashed instantly Aug 10 16:18:11 cp: target `IMPLEMENTED-r17/./' is not a directory: No such file or directory Aug 10 16:18:11 mhh Aug 10 16:18:19 i think there is a problem with the space Aug 10 16:18:37 is this known? Aug 10 16:20:16 ok that was a bit disturbing.. forgot to unplug the usb when I removed the cable.. the speakers started making a low buzzing sound Aug 10 16:20:27 s/cable/battery/ Aug 10 16:20:27 xkr47 meant: ok that was a bit disturbing.. forgot to unplug the usb when I removed the battery.. the speakers started making a low buzzing sound Aug 10 16:21:20 * rtyler buzzes and vibrates Aug 10 16:21:32 how do you shut down the phone in 2007.2 ? Aug 10 16:21:43 xkr47: slam it as hard as you can against the table Aug 10 16:21:59 niiiice!! that helps Aug 10 16:22:00 xkr47: I went into the terminal and tapped out 'shutdown -h now' Aug 10 16:22:09 o.O Aug 10 16:22:12 ;--) Aug 10 16:22:14 that's the only thing that worked reliably Aug 10 16:22:19 better keep some terminals handy then :) Aug 10 16:22:31 * xkr47 think he's gonna flash back to 2007 Aug 10 16:22:34 hm, where's dmitry? -.- Aug 10 16:22:39 it was at least providing a shutdown option (!!) Aug 10 16:22:42 * rtyler ate him Aug 10 16:22:59 nopes, I checked, there was no dmitry in rtyler Aug 10 16:23:09 ^^ Aug 10 16:23:18 * rtyler cat's /proc/tummy/contents Aug 10 16:23:35 I just wonder, why I am the only one who can't get a working openmoko-devel-image via the org.oe.dev-tree... Aug 10 16:23:59 I always just see the icons of the top-bar Aug 10 16:24:27 heh funny with the inversed progress bar on shutdown Aug 10 16:24:37 xkr47: clever eh? :P Aug 10 16:24:54 it was worth a little lol Aug 10 16:25:06 * rtyler runs away to restart Aug 10 16:27:32 does anyone know what the "desktop" background image is named in 2007.1? Aug 10 16:37:11 i have a stereo headphones with a mic attached that has two connectors at the end (one for mic and one for headphones). Is it poosible to get an adapter that will make it plug into the neo? Aug 10 16:40:33 orzo: what's the difference? Aug 10 16:41:47 the difference between what? Aug 10 16:42:04 orzo: like this one? http://www.mobileplanet.com/zoompic.aspx?type=item&i=113967 Aug 10 16:42:07 what's on the neo and what you have Aug 10 16:42:46 Henrikw, yeah, that looks right Aug 10 16:43:00 does the neo's headphone jack support stereo though? Aug 10 16:43:08 orzo, yes Aug 10 16:43:33 it's 3.way 2.5mm, stereo+mic Aug 10 16:44:27 ok cool Aug 10 16:44:49 might make a decent mp3 player after all Aug 10 16:44:50 heh Aug 10 16:45:37 hope so ;) Aug 10 16:54:36 mdt: some 20%. mplayer uses some 10% in some cases. Aug 10 16:55:01 SpeedEvil, good to hear... ;) Aug 10 16:57:49 well Aug 10 16:58:10 whose making a handy interface for the neo to be an mp3 player? Aug 10 16:58:33 maybe an mpd client so that the same interface might control music played by another computer Aug 10 17:00:09 openmoko: 03njp * r2691 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) Aug 10 17:00:09 openmoko: 2007-08-10 Neil J. Patel Aug 10 17:00:09 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_pin_entry), Aug 10 17:00:09 openmoko: (on_keypad_digit_pressed), (on_pin_requested), (moko_dialer_init): Aug 10 17:00:09 openmoko: Set the keypad to 'pin mode' when a pin is requested. Aug 10 17:00:13 openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: (_get_window), (moko_keypad_set_pin_mode), Aug 10 17:00:15 openmoko: (on_dial_clicked), (on_delete_event), (moko_keypad_class_init), Aug 10 17:01:26 jeddy3: yes, i am now Aug 10 17:01:41 Irssi 0.8.10 (20051211) - http://irssi.org/ end Aug 10 17:01:56 (eh, ignore that, /sv instead of /sb) Aug 10 17:02:08 Irssi 0.8.10 (20051211) - http://irssi.org/ Aug 10 17:02:11 * rtyler chuckles Aug 10 17:02:14 ^_^ Aug 10 17:02:19 bbl Aug 10 17:04:35 hi, i'm trying to make gsm working, but it won't... AT+CFUN=1 return ERROR Aug 10 17:05:00 I tried with AT+CPIN or without (by removing the pin on the sim with an another phone) Aug 10 17:06:31 niclone: type it harder. That sometimes helps :P Aug 10 17:07:08 niclone: did you try using the other mode for the libgsmtool? Aug 10 17:07:23 what is the other mode? Aug 10 17:07:29 -m atcmd and -m ??? (I'll look it up, sec) Aug 10 17:07:46 shell Aug 10 17:07:58 yes, and i've tried with cu Aug 10 17:08:48 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla//show_bug.cgi?id=698 Aug 10 17:09:20 That is Aug 10 17:09:27 that's it, even Aug 10 17:09:50 niclone: Did you try powering on and registering? Aug 10 17:10:08 registering come after AT+CFUN isn't it? Aug 10 17:10:09 I've gotten both GSM providers to register to the Neo in my area Aug 10 17:10:21 anyone know what to do with @INC being wrong/not complete when building om2007.2? Aug 10 17:10:24 AT+COPS I think Aug 10 17:10:51 daMaestro: I'd say it goes in the wood chipper. :P Aug 10 17:11:13 daMaestro: Are you sure your tree is in sync? Aug 10 17:11:17 -> CME ERROR: 32 Aug 10 17:11:25 HistoryOnTheRoad, yes Aug 10 17:11:58 daMaestro: Are you using HEAD or are you using a rev that is known to work? Aug 10 17:12:33 niclone: I don't know the CME Errors. Does your SIM have a PIN code enabled? Aug 10 17:13:02 HistoryOnTheRoad: i've tried with and without enabled it, at this time, it is disabled Aug 10 17:14:33 niclone: Are you sure your SIM card is being picked up (is it properly in place?) Aug 10 17:14:53 HistoryOnTheRoad, make update from last night Aug 10 17:15:51 HistoryOnTheRoad: well I'm going to verify again... Aug 10 17:16:03 Hello everyone! I just got my GTA01 phone I've installed the image at: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 10 17:16:27 Does anyone know of a more recent image or is this the best I can get atm? Aug 10 17:16:28 daMaestro: If you are building HEAD, then what is checked in might be broken. I'm guessing, but HEAD is like that sometimes. Aug 10 17:17:27 AT+CFUN=1 Aug 10 17:17:31 AT+COPS Aug 10 17:17:41 Hokky, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Pre-built_snapshot_images Aug 10 17:17:43 AT+COPS? Aug 10 17:19:14 daMaestro: Thanks :) Aug 10 17:19:45 Hokky, the dialer is broken for me with the 20070809 image... and 20070810 was not working Aug 10 17:20:26 ScaredyCat: AT+CFUN=1 ---> ERROR Aug 10 17:21:00 AT+CPIN='....' <- .... = pin Aug 10 17:21:30 I got the dialer app working, but no sound. Aug 10 17:22:07 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore Aug 10 17:22:16 watch your ears Aug 10 17:22:44 niclone: just be careful... too many pin tries == locked sim, requiroing puk Aug 10 17:22:46 ScaredyCat, you just need to run 'alsamixer' and turn down the headphone channel to ~80 Aug 10 17:23:15 ScaredyCat, then it wont destroy your ears Aug 10 17:23:15 lol Aug 10 17:23:24 pardon? Aug 10 17:23:28 ScaredyCat: i've disabled the pin code as for now, so AT+CPIN won't work Aug 10 17:23:36 alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore "watch your ears" Aug 10 17:23:54 I did that and got a huge noise Aug 10 17:23:58 microphony, I mean Aug 10 17:24:10 * ruoso wonder if this is the way to say that in english Aug 10 17:24:24 niclone: and you haven't tried too many times with the pin enables? Aug 10 17:24:32 s/enables/enabled/ Aug 10 17:24:32 ScaredyCat meant: niclone: and you haven't tried too many times with the pin enabled? Aug 10 17:24:50 feedback ruoso Aug 10 17:25:01 ScaredyCat: no, and moving the sim card on another phone, the sim card is always working Aug 10 17:25:08 ok... Aug 10 17:25:39 do an ATZ to reset Aug 10 17:25:51 then ATE1 Aug 10 17:26:04 and then try the AT+CFUN=1 Aug 10 17:26:48 are you roaming? Aug 10 17:27:10 you might try AT+COPS=? to list available providers Aug 10 17:27:26 SpeedEvil, daMaestro, in fact... getting it to below 90 solves the noise for me Aug 10 17:27:27 and I can use the phone Aug 10 17:27:38 ATZ -> OK, ATE1 -> OK, AT+CFUN1 -> ERROR Aug 10 17:27:53 AT+CFUN=1 i mean Aug 10 17:27:57 AT+CFUN=1 Aug 10 17:27:59 ok Aug 10 17:28:00 :) Aug 10 17:28:11 try an AT+COPS=? Aug 10 17:28:18 include the = and ? Aug 10 17:28:36 +COPS: 0 Aug 10 17:28:37 OK Aug 10 17:29:23 let me reset mine to start from a known state Aug 10 17:29:35 ok :) Aug 10 17:30:04 What sim card are you using? Aug 10 17:30:05 i've also tried echo 0...1 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on for resetting it harder Aug 10 17:30:15 this is a orange sim card from france Aug 10 17:30:24 niclone: Do you know the vendor IDs on it? Aug 10 17:30:31 and rev number? Aug 10 17:30:36 how can i know it? Aug 10 17:30:57 If you look on it. The side without the ICCID numebr there should be a 5 digit and 4 digit number Aug 10 17:31:12 and perhaps a letter on the end of the 5 digit number Aug 10 17:31:33 * niclone shutdown the phone... Aug 10 17:31:45 niclone: where are you now (physically) Aug 10 17:31:50 are you in france? Aug 10 17:31:51 ScaredyCat: france Aug 10 17:31:54 ok.. Aug 10 17:31:56 :) Aug 10 17:32:05 just checking, french sim, in france... Aug 10 17:32:13 yes :) Aug 10 17:32:15 you never know, some roaming can be iffy Aug 10 17:32:36 do you have a good signal ? Aug 10 17:32:46 Also niclone: do a AT+CMEE=2 when you get back on. instad of saying error it will tell you waht the error is Aug 10 17:33:04 i'm at about 10 meters of the orange antenna :) Aug 10 17:33:15 I hope its not an error 10 (sim not inserted) Aug 10 17:33:42 calamous_: the number of the sim card: "3G DM, 5666 0056 4958, 0, W" Aug 10 17:33:58 calamous_: i reboot the phone... Aug 10 17:34:31 on AT+COPS=?, I get +CME ERROR: 13, any ideas on why? Aug 10 17:34:46 alech: what sim are you using Aug 10 17:34:51 error 13=Sim error Aug 10 17:35:09 a german O2 SIM, a few years old Aug 10 17:35:15 If you do a AT+CNUM what error do you get? Aug 10 17:35:20 10 or 13? Aug 10 17:35:29 * ruoso has the feeling that a stable base system needs to be built ASAP Aug 10 17:35:31 just a sec Aug 10 17:35:34 yes, I have the same with a germand, brand new O2 sim Aug 10 17:35:41 a year old SIM of O2 Germany works Aug 10 17:35:47 appears to be BUG #666 Aug 10 17:35:52 TI firmware incompatible with some SIMs Aug 10 17:36:18 TI firmware sucks apparently. I wonder when FIC will hear back from them Aug 10 17:36:39 Anyone happen to have an ipkg of xv, or anything else similar? Aug 10 17:37:19 calamous_: 10 Aug 10 17:37:26 calamous_: what does that mean? Aug 10 17:37:27 Yep, my same error pattern Aug 10 17:37:32 10 means sim not inserted Aug 10 17:37:47 How can the device say sim not inserted for some commands, but sim error for others? Aug 10 17:37:54 AT+CMEE=2 --> OK Aug 10 17:37:59 ok, maybe I'll have to fiddle with it a bit more, I am not sure if I've inserted it correctly. Aug 10 17:38:05 IMO, Either the GSM modem can read the sim or it can't Aug 10 17:38:23 alech: Here, do this. take out the sim completely Aug 10 17:38:38 run at+CNUM and AT+COPS=? and see if you got 10 and 13 again Aug 10 17:38:53 AT+CFUN=1 ---> +CME ERROR: SIM wrong (this is the first time, i didn't have this before !) Aug 10 17:39:00 I'm wondering if it will say sim error if sim not inserted Aug 10 17:39:04 SpeedEvil - I'm waiting for mokomakefile to switch to 2007.2. Then I'll probably continue building packages. ;-) Aug 10 17:39:11 nicone: Yes Aug 10 17:39:20 nicone: AT+CMEE=2 gives you a description of the error Aug 10 17:39:28 AT+CMEE=1 gives you error nomuber Aug 10 17:39:36 AT+CMEE=0 says ERROR (not very helpful) Aug 10 17:39:38 ahhh Aug 10 17:39:47 cool :) Aug 10 17:40:01 but whel, why it say that my sim card is wrong? :/ Aug 10 17:40:12 niclone: if you have time, could you take out your sim and do the same commands again Aug 10 17:40:33 Because if your phone says wrong sim or sim error when there is no sim installed something is wacko Aug 10 17:40:39 calamous_: ok, i'm going to try this Aug 10 17:40:41 Does anyone know how to record from the mic? Aug 10 17:40:51 (and how do you change the volume?) Aug 10 17:41:00 My dumbass at&t sim gives me error 10 for CNUM but error 13 for COPS Aug 10 17:41:20 I hope FIC replaces the goddamn GSM modem with a working one Aug 10 17:41:38 I hope FIC and TI come up with a firmware update for the currently one shipped one Aug 10 17:41:45 rxr: what if they can't Aug 10 17:41:53 What if they actually need a new GSM chip? Aug 10 17:41:56 calamous_: without a SIM, I get 10 and 3 Aug 10 17:41:57 then we'll all brought quite crappy hardware .-) Aug 10 17:42:06 altech? error 3 or 13? Aug 10 17:42:10 calamous_: at least my slightly older SIM works ... Aug 10 17:42:11 (Operation not allowed) - ? Aug 10 17:42:19 calamous_: 3, no typo Aug 10 17:42:29 Hmm, atleast it knows when I sim is installed Aug 10 17:42:41 rxr: my older sims work too, but they are deactivated Aug 10 17:42:46 i think they'll figure out the 3G SIM issue Aug 10 17:42:46 calamous_: my hope is that the TI chip is used so often, that they know how to fix this Aug 10 17:43:13 calamous_: well - I just got a 2nd SIM just for the Moko testing, so I have two activated ones, where just the 2006 SIM works Aug 10 17:43:15 rxr: me too. but I will be very upset/disiponited if the chip needs to be replaced, then we have p1 bricks Aug 10 17:43:21 ok, I'll try the E-Plus one next Aug 10 17:43:25 calamous_: ACK Aug 10 17:43:32 calamous_: though we all knew this is alpha hardware ... Aug 10 17:43:40 my local AT&T store is nice, they gave me a bunch of sims to try and none of them work Aug 10 17:43:46 calamous_: but I have hopes that TI chiops enough of those chips to know how to fix it Aug 10 17:43:50 i'm sure it works very well in china though D: Aug 10 17:43:53 calamous_: nice Aug 10 17:43:55 rxr: I can deal with alpha software Aug 10 17:44:09 calamous_: I phoned with O2 data-tech support for like 2h today Aug 10 17:44:13 But i'm sorta dumbfounded about the sims Aug 10 17:44:31 * ljp has seen 2.5g phones destroy 3g sims Aug 10 17:44:34 calamous_: also where kinda nice and looked up and checked all sorts of details in their system Aug 10 17:44:43 and also looked up charge numbers of the SIMs etc. ... Aug 10 17:44:46 anyway guys, I have a meeting 30 mins away in 15 mins so I got to run Aug 10 17:44:47 yeah Aug 10 17:45:06 they where quite stunned as both of my SIMs are UMTS/3G SIMs ... Aug 10 17:45:11 calamous_: cu Aug 10 17:45:31 cu is old school, use minicom Aug 10 17:45:34 ... >_> Aug 10 17:45:36 rxr: have you put your information in the bugzilla/wiki? Aug 10 17:47:06 Vegar: nope, as I did not yet found out where the vendor ID of the SIM is to be found Aug 10 17:47:14 Vegar: it is not in the 20 digit UUID thing, is it ? Aug 10 17:47:22 no idea Aug 10 17:47:41 Vegar: if I would have the vendor IDs of my SIM I would have added it ... Aug 10 17:47:54 unfortunatly the guru who created the wiki entry did not told us that info :-) Aug 10 17:48:31 hmmm, 10/3 with the e-plus one, too (as if it is not inserted), but this is a 3G one. Aug 10 17:49:25 * ruoso away Aug 10 17:49:27 Is there a table on the wiki of which SIMs work? Aug 10 17:49:31 seeya Aug 10 17:49:43 HistoryOnTheRoad: a little Aug 10 17:50:00 HistoryOnTheRoad: but I think rule of tumb, SIMs manufactored in 2007 do not work :-( Aug 10 17:50:12 That device owners list would be helpful about now :P Aug 10 17:50:22 Hmmm, interesting. Aug 10 17:51:08 Rogers and Fido SIMs appear to work, although I haven't managed to make a successful call with Rogers yet. Aug 10 17:51:50 uhm, anyone know if this is going to change? e.g. with gta02? Aug 10 17:51:54 I have a two year old Rogers SIM. I should be good, I hope. Aug 10 18:00:40 drath: What's going to change? Aug 10 18:01:05 orospakr: Rogers SIMs work fine, they register. I just can't make a call :S Aug 10 18:01:10 HistoryOnTheRoad: the problem with newer sim cards? Aug 10 18:01:27 I think it's mostly 3G, but don't quote me. Aug 10 18:01:41 My guess is it's a firmware issue. Aug 10 18:02:06 hey, first call :-) guess it was just a physical connection problem, seems to work with the german O2 one, now. Aug 10 18:02:19 TI isn't making these readers just for FIC, and if it's a problem on the Neo it would be a problem elsewhere too. Aug 10 18:02:50 calamous_: ok, without any sim card, I have: "+CME ERROR: SIM not inserted" Aug 10 18:03:33 Anyone happen to have an ipkg of xv, or anything else similar? Aug 10 18:06:22 I guess there is just no way to record from the mic? Aug 10 18:06:25 * HistoryOnTheRoad cries Aug 10 18:06:54 There is. Aug 10 18:07:03 How you set it up is the fun question. Aug 10 18:09:03 most of the times, it's the mechanical quality of the combo slot Aug 10 18:12:48 SpeedEvil: Well, so far no hints. The only way I can imagine now is drawing a picture of the waveform of the sound and then playing it out the speakers ;P Aug 10 18:14:14 cat /dev/dsp does sample the ADC Aug 10 18:14:37 It's then 'simply' a case of setting the mixer controls so that the sound is routed from the mic to the adc Aug 10 18:14:56 Ah, the plot thickens :) Aug 10 18:15:35 See the nice simple explanatory block diagram in the middle of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem for guidance. Aug 10 18:15:54 * HistoryOnTheRoad beams into MokoControlCenral and bargains with MixMasterMC to have the sound piped from the Mic to the ADC :P Aug 10 18:16:30 * HistoryOnTheRoad goes and fetches aligator clips and pocket protector Aug 10 18:17:19 I guess there is no magical software incantation I can recite to get this to happen? Aug 10 18:17:42 alsacontrol -beg attach_mic_to_adc_please Aug 10 18:18:27 no. Aug 10 18:18:30 SpeedEvil: So far, this is the closest that i've gotten to getting a hint, so thanks mondo for that. Aug 10 18:19:03 "mixer" is a hardware piece, i'm guessing? Aug 10 18:19:21 Is there a driver for it, or do I have to write that too? :P Aug 10 18:21:21 I've never written a driver from specsheets, but I'm willing to try if it'll help things along. Aug 10 18:21:31 How do I run nand erase? Aug 10 18:21:41 from uboot? Aug 10 18:21:46 In principle. You need to find which mic input the mic is connected to, setup the input gain and mic selector appropriately,setup the ALC mixer right, then set it up to route to the left or right ADC Aug 10 18:21:47 I've connected with minicom Aug 10 18:21:51 alsactl can do it Aug 10 18:21:59 But all I get is this Ctrl-A thing Aug 10 18:22:01 CM, look at the Bootloader page on the wiki Aug 10 18:22:13 SpeedEvil: I am Aug 10 18:22:36 search on nand erase then Aug 10 18:23:19 It's actually in Flashing Openmoko Aug 10 18:23:33 It's in both Aug 10 18:23:39 But my problem is how to get to that prompt Aug 10 18:23:45 I mean where I can type something Aug 10 18:23:47 SpeedEvil: Wow, that's a great help. Is the alsacontrol manpage good, or should I google for info on it? Aug 10 18:23:52 cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 Aug 10 18:23:54 GTA01Bv3 # nand erase rootfs Aug 10 18:23:57 the problem is. Aug 10 18:24:19 SpeedEvil: I don't have a cu command Aug 10 18:24:20 HistoryOnTheRoad: alsamixer exposes the individual mixers on the chip Aug 10 18:24:29 And I don't know where to find it Aug 10 18:24:31 it does not have a graphical setup. Aug 10 18:24:44 I do have minicom installed, but can't find any program called cu Aug 10 18:24:45 minicom will work - you may need to turn flow control off, I'm unsure. Aug 10 18:24:57 and set it to use /dev/ttyACM0 Aug 10 18:25:00 Ok, what program is cu? picocom? Aug 10 18:25:13 no - it's _much_ _much_ older than that. Aug 10 18:25:13 Or what is the name of the cu program? Just cu? Aug 10 18:25:31 Ok, guess that's why I can't find it Aug 10 18:25:37 yes - just cu Aug 10 18:25:41 (In gentoo that is) Aug 10 18:26:06 it may be in a package called uucp Aug 10 18:26:33 Hmm.. Wasn't it Aug 10 18:26:40 I'll look more and see if I can find it Aug 10 18:26:53 Does cu have any homepage or so? Aug 10 18:27:08 no. It was written before the web. Aug 10 18:27:24 You can use minicom. Aug 10 18:27:37 I'll try to find out how Aug 10 18:27:40 Should be in the wiki.. Aug 10 18:27:41 You've just got to set it up appropriately. Aug 10 18:27:46 I don't think itis. Aug 10 18:28:59 SpeedEvil: There was nothing before the web. And Al Gore invented it. :P Aug 10 18:29:17 minicom rocks, and cu is cool Aug 10 18:29:25 HistoryOnTheRoad: I don't have my Neo yet, so I haven't tested mine yet. Aug 10 18:29:36 HistoryOnTheRoad: Any hint on how to connect to the Neo with minicom? Aug 10 18:29:55 orospakr: Where abouts are you? Aug 10 18:30:30 HistoryOnTheRoad: Ottawa. Aug 10 18:30:46 CM: Connecting from a PC to the Neo? Aug 10 18:31:08 orospakr: Cool ... are you on the wiki as a Canadian user? Aug 10 18:31:11 HistoryOnTheRoad: Yes, exactly. Aug 10 18:31:20 I want to be able to type nand erase into it Aug 10 18:31:28 My neo doesn't boot any more Aug 10 18:32:17 CM: I've never done it yet, but minicom is fairly well built and it shouldn't be hard to do. I've so far only used minicom over old=school DB9/DB25 type connections, not a USB cable. Aug 10 18:32:32 I just found "minicom -s" Aug 10 18:32:37 Set the serial to ttyACM0 Aug 10 18:32:49 Doesn't boot, or doesn't get to uBoot? Aug 10 18:33:16 It get's to uboot Aug 10 18:33:31 The wiki should list where the Advanced kits are, so people know where they can go to get unbricked :P Aug 10 18:33:32 And minicom can connect.. Aug 10 18:33:50 Dumb suggestion -- reflash? Aug 10 18:34:02 But I don't get any prompt back from minicom, just a Press CTRL-A Z for help on special keys Aug 10 18:34:05 Or do you have to NAND erase before you reflash? Aug 10 18:34:14 (I've only flashed once so far) Aug 10 18:34:23 HistoryOnTheRoad: Yes, if the new image is smaler Aug 10 18:34:42 I have a "wrong magic number" or something and it won't boot Aug 10 18:34:51 CM: did you set uBoot to talk to the port you are connecting on? Aug 10 18:35:00 How do I do that? Aug 10 18:35:05 AUX-power and then choose the right option Aug 10 18:35:13 HistoryOnTheRoad, even after updating, git is failing to build because of an incorrect @INC and a missing perl dep Aug 10 18:35:15 I only have 2 options in my uboot Aug 10 18:35:23 boot and factory reset Aug 10 18:35:25 :( Aug 10 18:35:32 Magic is important. Make sure you don't let the magic smoke out. :P Aug 10 18:35:59 And I haven't dared to try factory reset yet, no one seem to know what that does Aug 10 18:36:05 Did you flash your device? I have a few more options then that. Aug 10 18:36:22 I flashed it with the latest uboot on mickeyl's suggestion Aug 10 18:36:22 I mean a new uBoot image Aug 10 18:36:27 ah Aug 10 18:36:31 Also with the latest root and kernel Aug 10 18:36:43 It booted once, but then had an unclean shutdown Aug 10 18:36:57 And after that i got that wrong magic number thing. :( Aug 10 18:37:06 Well, an unclean shutdown shouldn't (normally) wedge you that bad. Aug 10 18:37:19 I know Aug 10 18:37:41 Oh well.. I'll look at it again later. Thanks anyway Aug 10 18:37:51 * CM goes to get some drinks instead :D Aug 10 18:37:52 daMaestro: Hmmm. did you check the bugtracker to see if anyone has reported any issue with that buildset? Aug 10 18:38:12 CM: Sorry I couldn't be more helpful :S Aug 10 18:44:38 np: Blind Melon - Three is the magic number. Aug 10 18:45:47 sigh Aug 10 18:46:07 ice1093 is going to be late tonite... "person injury on the track" Aug 10 18:46:13 :/ Aug 10 18:47:32 HistoryOnTheRoad: yup Aug 10 19:03:15 orospakr: If you come to TO, or i come up there, we'll have to have a Mokoparty :) Aug 10 19:16:36 not TO Aug 10 19:16:42 anyone in Washington DC next week? Aug 10 19:17:02 i dun seem able to get to talk to the ftdi chip on the debug board. Aug 10 19:17:13 what am i missing? Aug 10 19:17:54 Kero: I'm sure some members of Congress, and maybe the president. :P Aug 10 19:18:27 Does the president have a Neo? Aug 10 19:28:45 Kero: If he did, would he have a clue what it was? :P Aug 10 19:31:10 jipi: what's the problem? Aug 10 19:37:36 drath: openocd doesn;'t seem to talk to the ftdi chip Aug 10 19:43:00 HistoryOnTheRoad: there's at least one other guy here in Ottawa who has his Moko :) Aug 10 19:43:31 Is he on Rogers or Fido? :P Aug 10 19:43:40 ok i'm determined to find out the problem. Aug 10 19:44:19 jipi: you're on linux? Aug 10 19:44:23 i was able to get a call from a moko on fido last night Aug 10 19:44:29 drath: yes Aug 10 19:44:37 drath: debian sid Aug 10 19:44:38 i didn't try my rogers sim Aug 10 19:44:44 jipi: does the device get recognized? Aug 10 19:44:48 e.g. lsusb? Aug 10 19:44:49 ckuethe: Me too :D (no sound though) Aug 10 19:44:56 drath: yes. Aug 10 19:45:21 drath: it then sets up ttyUSB0,ttyUSB1 when i plug them in Aug 10 19:45:36 drath: plugit in i meant Aug 10 19:46:22 I'm back from my meeting. Has TI/FIC released a firmware upgrade for the GSM modem while I was gone? Aug 10 19:46:30 No. Aug 10 19:46:43 you could remove ftdi_sio to be safe Aug 10 19:46:51 Total silence, in fact -- the mail server is dead too :) Aug 10 19:46:51 Also - as of current information - TI won't let FIC release the flashing tooll. Aug 10 19:46:51 do i correctly understand that not all gsm carriers work well w/ the gta01? Aug 10 19:47:13 khaij: there is a miniority of people with problems. Aug 10 19:47:25 drath: remove it (ftdi_sio module)? does it need to be there for openocd to talk to it? Aug 10 19:47:36 er, minority in the international sense... Aug 10 19:47:41 no, openocd talks directly via /proc/bus/usb to the FT2232 Aug 10 19:47:55 using either libftdi or ftdi's own ftd2xx library Aug 10 19:48:22 SpeedEvil: That is obserd. Aug 10 19:48:23 have you set up appropriate rights for the /proc/bus/usb device entry? Aug 10 19:48:34 SpeedEvil: Do you know if the AGPS drivers well be able to be released too? Aug 10 19:48:40 * drath goes reading what openmoko recommends people to do with the debug board Aug 10 19:48:46 SpeedEvil: so it's carrier agnostic, at least in general? Aug 10 19:48:59 yes. Aug 10 19:49:04 SpeedEvil: I feel that FIC should have selected better hardware venders for the "open" phone Aug 10 19:49:13 cool thx Aug 10 19:49:26 calamous_: they are going to releas teh GPS drivers 'soon' Aug 10 19:49:30 Ones that support the project. Aug 10 19:49:31 drath: i've read it i think more than 10 times. but it doesn;t seem to give me much clue Aug 10 19:49:34 See the 'GPS' page on the wiki Aug 10 19:49:39 for a link Aug 10 19:49:45 calamous_: if you know of such vendors, please do tell. Aug 10 19:49:48 ok, what happens when you launch the OpenOCD? Aug 10 19:50:11 So if I get the T.I.'s precious flashing tool, am I going to rip their chip off and make lots of money and put them out of buisiness, or flash my GSM modem so it works? Aug 10 19:50:31 calamous_: GSM chipset vendors are quite few. Aug 10 19:50:35 calamous_: as i understand it, openmoko "inherited" the neo1973 design... it wasn't designed for them originally Aug 10 19:50:36 There are not really many. Aug 10 19:50:54 So how do other phones get flashed when they need to? Aug 10 19:51:05 Send in to vendor in many cases. Aug 10 19:51:12 calamous_: as i understand it, the problem with gsm is that because it affects the telephone system, it has to be done by the vendor or the carrier, not by end users... legal crap Aug 10 19:51:46 Take your Motorola RAZR to fred's cell phone sales on the corner, and he'll reflash it... Aug 10 19:51:53 For many years TI has been the top supplier of chips to the mobile space to the tune of $4 billion /year Aug 10 19:52:11 Of course, fred had to sign his life away to get the device/software to do the flashing... Aug 10 19:52:13 is that a re-flash of the GSM engine too, or just the fluffy UI on top, though? Aug 10 19:52:27 ckuethe: That may be true, but its wrong. I.E. Back in the day when my computer had a modem it was connected to the telephone lines, Did I have to have at&t come out each time I installed a piece of saftware Aug 10 19:52:38 they sure wanted to. Aug 10 19:52:47 carterphone, bla bla bla Aug 10 19:53:15 i'm sure they wished they could regulate what modems were allowed Aug 10 19:53:21 and sell only thiers Aug 10 19:53:23 My computer is hooked up to the electric network, does commonwealth edison need to come out when I do a bios upgrade? Aug 10 19:53:35 that's the logic behind carterphone Aug 10 19:53:49 design standard interfaces and test for conformance Aug 10 19:54:04 then any conformant implementation can play Aug 10 19:54:33 I don't like America any more Aug 10 19:54:38 con-ed doesn't need to come out, but UL (or whoever) certifies that your power supply isn't a danger to whoever. it becomes type-approved Aug 10 19:54:43 Do they have this nonsence in western europe? Aug 10 19:55:06 to some extent Aug 10 19:55:18 drath: like setting what? udev rules? Error: ft2232.c:1433 ft2232_init_libftdi(): unable to open ftdi device: device not found Aug 10 19:55:18 I have no problem with underwriters labs, but some stuff is just ridiculous Aug 10 19:55:28 jipi: yeah, the udev rule Aug 10 19:55:35 we just don't have UL for radio stuff yet Aug 10 19:55:43 the FCC? Aug 10 19:55:47 my device is FCC approved Aug 10 19:55:48 jipi: when you look at the debug board with lsusb, does it have the correct vid/pid? Aug 10 19:55:49 nope Aug 10 19:56:01 the fcc (and crtc) have their heads up their asses Aug 10 19:56:01 Meh. Aug 10 19:56:04 ckuethe: where do you like? Aug 10 19:56:08 live* Aug 10 19:56:10 drath: i put the recommended udev rule in /etc/udev/rules.d/ Aug 10 19:56:13 calamous_: i don't know what makes you think UL does not apply to US. Aug 10 19:56:13 stop the earth. i wanna get off... Aug 10 19:56:16 canada Aug 10 19:56:37 writchie: what do you mean? Aug 10 19:56:39 drath: Bus 004 Device 100: ID 1457:5118 is this correct? Aug 10 19:57:03 any device with li-ion battery has regulations that it must comply with Aug 10 19:57:14 sure. thats a good thing Aug 10 19:57:21 jipi: yeah, that's the right one Aug 10 19:57:41 at this point though, there closest we have to UL type approvals for radio is FCC approvals, but those are contingent on a whole lot of other things Aug 10 19:57:46 generally, these all relate to safety not function. Aug 10 19:57:53 draft: my neo is also powered up. and there are 3 leds altogether that is lit up. Aug 10 19:57:54 the problem with radio is that it's so much easier to mess with other users Aug 10 19:58:00 I am a fan of safty regulation Aug 10 19:58:09 there is GSM type approval on the radio stack Aug 10 19:58:13 if you screw up your home electricals, there are fuses and stuff all the way up the chain Aug 10 19:58:43 jipi: your problem isn't related to the neo Aug 10 19:58:45 compliance with the application safety specifications, most of which are more stringent in europe Aug 10 19:58:49 drath: i connected the fpc from the debug board to neo, the upstreamusb to pc and a downstream usb to neo Aug 10 19:58:53 i'm trying to think of some in-home device that, if you mess with it, you put everybody 3 blocks around at risk Aug 10 19:58:58 jipi: which version of the OpenOCD do you use? Aug 10 19:59:06 FCC compliance regarding intentional and unintentional radiators Aug 10 19:59:10 etc, etc, etc. Aug 10 19:59:23 ckuethe: potentially gas appliances. Aug 10 19:59:24 also, i think that FCC (and other international regulators) are just out of touch with reality Aug 10 19:59:38 Not really IMO. Aug 10 19:59:39 they're like 20yrs behind the curve Aug 10 19:59:48 i don Aug 10 19:59:53 GSM works so well solely because other users shut up when they should. Aug 10 19:59:57 ckuethe: I know something that can put everyone in a 3block radius at risk Aug 10 20:00:04 't see a lot of aggressive test/certification programs for new technologies Aug 10 20:00:05 ckuethe: alcohol and a car Aug 10 20:00:08 If the band was not well controlled, range would plummet. Aug 10 20:00:15 ype Aug 10 20:00:16 yep Aug 10 20:00:33 which is why we can't let people all the way to the firmware Aug 10 20:00:49 there is no fuse box / demarc point for a cell phone Aug 10 20:01:02 at least not a nice place where you only wreck your service Aug 10 20:01:05 if the firmware was open, no -ones handsets would work Aug 10 20:01:07 drath: i tried out various versions. i think the one running on my host is 0.0+r188-1 according to debian's package versioning Aug 10 20:01:24 Writchie: it might... but we'd have a long time of crappy service before we converged Aug 10 20:01:33 but it would be a very fragile system Aug 10 20:01:38 it's still fragile Aug 10 20:01:40 drath: i also tried out the versions specified in the wikis. compiled them. i also tried out different versions of libftdi Aug 10 20:01:42 but has some legal armor Aug 10 20:02:17 Do anyone of you know any good books on the theories of computation? Aug 10 20:02:34 anyone who ever looked at the GSM radio specs could only conclude that great care and testing is required to insure that everything will work. Aug 10 20:03:41 ckuethe: How come people can do their own 802.11 things but not with GSM Aug 10 20:03:53 because 802.11 is the junk band Aug 10 20:03:55 802.11 is in the unregulated ISM band Aug 10 20:03:57 Are there less laws regulating it Aug 10 20:04:00 well, lightly regulated Aug 10 20:04:10 drath: and i'm apparently looking at the code for both openocd and libftdi. it seemed to hit a wall at ftdi_usb_open_desc Aug 10 20:04:16 maximum power Aug 10 20:04:17 basically it's legally-defined free-for-all Aug 10 20:04:51 Hmm. I like this question and answer session Aug 10 20:04:57 Why does AM radio have such a large band? Aug 10 20:04:58 within this band... go hard. you're competing with microwave ovens already, so who cares about noise in your mp3 or slow pr0n Aug 10 20:05:08 it was once the whole spectrum Aug 10 20:05:26 spectrum isn't really infinit Aug 10 20:05:27 e Aug 10 20:05:28 Is the AM radio "protocol" not very efficient? Aug 10 20:05:38 some frequencies are easier to transmit/receive on Aug 10 20:06:05 yeah Aug 10 20:06:30 really low frequency stuff requires antennas hundreds of meters long Aug 10 20:06:41 The FM band is smaller and it seems to have much more channels that the AM Aug 10 20:06:46 some things take advantage of ionospheric effects Aug 10 20:06:58 some coding/modulation techniques are more efficient Aug 10 20:07:17 also, higher frequency carriers can carry more information Aug 10 20:07:30 ohh ok Aug 10 20:07:31 The really, really low frequency stuff is tens of kilometers long. Aug 10 20:07:32 lots of good reading on wikipedia about this, byw Aug 10 20:07:46 makes the worms come out of the ground Aug 10 20:07:52 FM band is MUCH larger than the AM band Aug 10 20:08:11 20 mhz vs 1 mhz Aug 10 20:08:27 that too. :) Aug 10 20:08:38 and yet it's totally congested Aug 10 20:08:47 And a TV channel alone is about 5MHz in width -- for a single channel. Aug 10 20:08:58 6 actually in US Aug 10 20:08:58 * ckuethe hates driving through american cities, with no free spaces on the dial Aug 10 20:09:21 including the gaps everyone is trying to grab Aug 10 20:09:21 and it's all the same shit on the radio... Aug 10 20:09:45 or maybe it just sounds the same to my bitter and jaded ears Aug 10 20:10:25 In the end, from a spectrum usage efficiency standpoint, the world would do MUCH better if we could throw out all our existing comms gear, and re-allocate the spectrum based on today's technology and today's needs... Aug 10 20:10:39 Backwards compatability bites us again... Aug 10 20:10:50 why not... "reboot and reinstall" works for windows. ;) Aug 10 20:11:22 Look at how long it's taken the USA to free up so much wasted TV bandwidth by forcing the obsolesence of the old analog TV signals... Aug 10 20:11:43 jipi: did you add the "ft2232_device_desc" line to your .cfg? Aug 10 20:12:15 kill off television. it'll make people 20 iq points smarter in about 3 weeks. Aug 10 20:12:26 drath, this line? -> ft2232_device_desc "Debug Board for Neo1973 A Aug 10 20:12:26 i'm so glad i cancelled cable Aug 10 20:12:32 I would love to trash all the current radios and reallociate using new tech and encoding Aug 10 20:12:39 drath: if yes.. i added. Aug 10 20:12:42 so much more time for cool code hacking Aug 10 20:12:52 drath:is the order important? Aug 10 20:13:03 jipi: mostly not Aug 10 20:13:34 jipi: only when something is referenced somewhere else, like a "flash bank" that belongs to a "target" Aug 10 20:14:06 jipi: is the debug board listed by this name? Aug 10 20:14:13 jipi: i.e. when you run lsusb -v? Aug 10 20:14:41 jipi: the iProduct field Aug 10 20:15:21 hum, iirc libftdi doesn't like the " A" Aug 10 20:15:30 this is something used on Windows with FTD2XX Aug 10 20:18:10 drath: i think you might hit it Aug 10 20:19:14 drath: mine was "Debug Board for Neo1973" for the iProduct instead of "Debug Board for Neo1973 A" Aug 10 20:19:36 yeah, that's normal - the "A" is FTD2XX's way of telling whether you talk to channel A or B Aug 10 20:20:33 drath: thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aug 10 20:21:07 drath: i guess this must be documented to make sure others won't hit the wall again. Aug 10 20:22:03 jipi: I have no idea who put the "... A" in the wiki - would be great if you could make that clear Aug 10 20:22:50 ah, that was a recent addition by TheShonkoKid Aug 10 20:23:31 drath: ok. i will do it. a quick check, as i still could not find any pinouts for the thru holes on the debug board. is there any chance the jtag lines of the neo are pulled out? Aug 10 20:24:35 well, basically yes, but it's the other way round - you use the debug board to work with a different target Aug 10 20:24:52 the lines will still be driven by the debug board, i guess Aug 10 20:27:24 drath: i understand that. Aug 10 20:28:18 anyway, people should use the OpenOCD and not some other (non-free) JTAG utility ;) Aug 10 20:28:29 hi Aug 10 20:29:01 drath: hmmm. ok i shall leave it as that. Aug 10 20:29:50 oh my god, the neo1973 doesnt power on, i dont know why, the battery is charged, and i powered on this morning, but now it doesnt... please can anybody help me? Aug 10 20:30:13 jcazor: just leave it in the usb port for 30 minutes. Aug 10 20:30:22 jcazor, take the battery out... wait 10 seconds; put the battery back in and plug into usb Aug 10 20:30:29 jcazor: i went thru this scare as well. Aug 10 20:30:34 if there is any juice at all, the logo should show up Aug 10 20:30:38 yeah, i did also Aug 10 20:30:48 oh thanx i hope it works Aug 10 20:30:48 i thought i fsked up my device with a wall charger Aug 10 20:31:52 in case you guys cannot properly charge, you can get a bl-5c nokia battery which will work as well. its in the wiki too. Aug 10 20:37:09 tis lonely with a borked mailing list Aug 10 20:37:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iUgSwX8xzo&eurl= Aug 10 20:37:21 strange how its still working fine in teh archives.. Aug 10 20:38:39 sure, the mail server isn't sending mail though :P Aug 10 20:39:04 anyone know the relased date of th gta02? Aug 10 20:39:12 "when it's ready" Aug 10 20:39:16 yup. Aug 10 20:39:20 "after gta01 is fixed" Aug 10 20:39:25 "when there are no more bugs" Aug 10 20:39:38 doc|work: Did I ask you where abouts you lived yesterday? Aug 10 20:39:39 x october 2007 Aug 10 20:39:40 :P Aug 10 20:39:43 probably not in october Aug 10 20:39:45 or november Aug 10 20:39:53 or 2999 Aug 10 20:39:54 El_Salvador: it was the X I was wondering about :/ Aug 10 20:39:56 :P Aug 10 20:40:00 ckuethe: no more bugs ... they've cancelled 02 then? :P Aug 10 20:40:01 and i'm not being an ass.... gta01 doesn't exactly work yet. let's get one working phone before we try for some more Aug 10 20:40:19 of course, releasing a crappy phone would do more bad than good Aug 10 20:40:29 but still. I want one yesterday :) Aug 10 20:40:45 probably not in october Aug 10 20:40:46 why? Aug 10 20:40:48 the register did a little write up on greenphone... they mentioned openmoko in it Aug 10 20:40:53 HistoryOnTheRoad: if you did I didn't see it. I'm in vancouver. You? Aug 10 20:41:04 doc|work: Toronto here Aug 10 20:41:06 El_Salvador: because everything else has been late so far Aug 10 20:41:12 HistoryOnTheRoad: thought as much :) Aug 10 20:41:20 HistoryOnTheRoad: seen this? http://onlinux.ca/speakers Aug 10 20:41:31 they/we are all still learning about the process of building and shipping linux phones Aug 10 20:41:35 El_Salvador: everything ckuethe just said Aug 10 20:41:50 yes, ian was over at my place last night Aug 10 20:41:55 sad news Aug 10 20:42:00 we were doing some openmoko/openbsd stuff. Aug 10 20:42:01 mwah Aug 10 20:42:46 doc|work:Ian Darwin - OpenMoko: Free your phone and your mind will follow", you mean? " Aug 10 20:43:12 still not sure when my neo is arriving. Aug 10 20:43:19 but i didn't put any urgency into the order Aug 10 20:43:19 ckuethe: I think they are learning about building and shipping stuff, period :P Aug 10 20:43:46 maybe i missed the 2nd batch Aug 10 20:44:06 What # are you ckuethe Aug 10 20:44:09 but maybe that means i get GTA01v4++ Aug 10 20:44:14 lol Aug 10 20:44:16 heh! Aug 10 20:44:19 probably not ;p Aug 10 20:44:19 some micro-rev'd hardware Aug 10 20:44:36 I expect they'll ship me my P1 about 5 days before they start selling P2s Aug 10 20:44:36 dunno... i put my number up on the wiki Aug 10 20:44:52 i got someone else to pay for my P1 phone Aug 10 20:44:56 R&D funding Aug 10 20:45:13 i'll wait for P2 before i sink my own money into it Aug 10 20:45:24 will developer version of GTA2 be released if it looks like the mass market version is going to be delayed a lot? Aug 10 20:45:29 ckuethe: "but if you take the crappy closed phone behind number 2, you'll only pay $1 and just have to be an indentured servant to pay off your "contract term"" :P Aug 10 20:45:43 Jiten: gta02 is the mass market version Aug 10 20:45:49 It's coming out of my pocket. And the problem is that as time passes, there's less and less time to use it -- thus the value of the P1 to me is dropping over time. I will probably cancel if I don't get it before September. Aug 10 20:45:53 HistoryOnTheRoad: no thanks, i already cancelled with telus Aug 10 20:46:02 doc|work: fine, rename it gta1v5 then :P Aug 10 20:46:21 Jiten: why's that? :) Aug 10 20:46:22 but with the hardware currently promised for gta2 Aug 10 20:46:46 because the hardware selection in gta2 is pretty much what would get me to buy it, developer version or not. Aug 10 20:46:55 precisely Aug 10 20:47:07 The next version (wifi) should be ready by September. The question is will FIC be ready to actually do a production run. Aug 10 20:47:21 Jiten: same Aug 10 20:47:38 Jiten: ah, I get you, so you're saying make another dev release before mass market? Aug 10 20:47:52 doc|work: yes Aug 10 20:48:02 * doc|work would go for that Aug 10 20:48:14 provided I knew I wasn't going to be left with a brick of course Aug 10 20:48:37 HistoryOnTheRoad: October is the supposed release date. Aug 10 20:48:45 another dev release? Aug 10 20:48:49 * HistoryOnTheRoad starts producing bricks with little "GTA01v5" stickers on them Aug 10 20:48:56 :D Aug 10 20:48:57 third? Aug 10 20:49:20 SpeedEvil: October release ==> September Production Aug 10 20:50:03 think everything will be ironed out by then? Aug 10 20:50:08 Ah. Aug 10 20:50:19 * SpeedEvil has _real_ doubts about the October date. Aug 10 20:50:23 indeed Aug 10 20:50:35 seems like even the software is very much in flux Aug 10 20:50:38 The wifi is a pretty amazing addition, but except for web browsing most stuff can be done on the current device. Aug 10 20:50:41 i have no doubts about october. i am confident it will be late. Aug 10 20:50:49 (Ok, no IRC idling @ Rogers rates :P) Aug 10 20:50:54 HistoryOnTheRoad: it's the wifi that makes me want it Aug 10 20:50:58 HistoryOnTheRoad: yeah :) Aug 10 20:51:30 I have 50,000 ideas for it. Only a few thousand of those need wifi :) Aug 10 20:51:55 ckuethe: Depends on the priority. Aug 10 20:52:06 for many use cases you can use BT instead of WiFi Aug 10 20:52:10 for me, it's the accelerometers and wifi :) Aug 10 20:52:20 what do you want the accels for? Aug 10 20:52:30 If Sean or whoever is the hardware sheppard tells everyone to get stuffed until they get the prototype tested, we'll be in the zone. Aug 10 20:53:00 accels will be fun for an automotive data logger Aug 10 20:53:11 They are very limited. Aug 10 20:53:17 7 bits/g Aug 10 20:53:24 meh Aug 10 20:53:25 for me, it's the accelerometers and wifi :) Aug 10 20:53:27 good enough Aug 10 20:53:31 for me wifi and faster processor Aug 10 20:53:32 Well, that _could_ be done by GPS. Aug 10 20:53:32 :P Aug 10 20:53:40 IF we had the friggen drive Aug 10 20:53:45 driver even Aug 10 20:53:46 i guess, if we get raw data, fast enough Aug 10 20:54:09 What are you thinking of doing with it? Aug 10 20:54:15 SpeedEvil: so, in practise what does that limitation mean? Aug 10 20:54:37 * Jiten is not completely sure what that /g means there Aug 10 20:55:03 +/- 1g in 256steps Aug 10 20:55:09 Jiten: basically - even given known orientation, your speed gets 16cm/s more inaccurate per second. Aug 10 20:55:32 0x80 = -1g, 0 = 0g, 0x7f = 1g Aug 10 20:56:01 g is not earth's gravity, I hope Aug 10 20:56:03 SpeedEvil: No clocking world's fastest car with that baby. :P Aug 10 20:56:28 Well - you're 70MPH out after 3 mins or so, which is bad :) Aug 10 20:56:50 HistoryOnTheRoad: what car is that? ;) Aug 10 20:56:51 indeed, but without R-compounds on, i don't really need to worry about breaking 1g Aug 10 20:57:02 "but officer, my phone said I was only doing 55" Aug 10 20:57:26 hozer: I was thinking of taking the Neo with my to time trials @ the Nevada Salt Flats :P Aug 10 20:57:36 GPS doesn't work badly for that. Aug 10 20:57:52 HistoryOnTheRoad: is there a team you're with? Aug 10 20:58:00 ckuethe: I was mostly interested in them for movement in the below one meter range. Aug 10 20:58:31 hozer: lol ... naw, I was just kidding Aug 10 20:58:41 GPS is just fine for positioning Aug 10 20:58:45 heh Aug 10 20:59:51 as in using accelerometers for detecting user moving his hand while holding neo. Aug 10 21:00:06 SpeedEvil: have they settled on which mems chip or this still up in the air? Aug 10 21:00:20 glue neo to your heart and it will monitor your pulse by accelerometers ;) Aug 10 21:00:33 Jiten: yeah.. that seems like it could be a killer UI Aug 10 21:00:35 The one which was mentioned on the mailing list is the 7 bits/g one. Aug 10 21:00:55 You basically can tell 'down' very accurately. Aug 10 21:00:59 Little more. Aug 10 21:01:02 SpeedEvil: how many G does it measure? Aug 10 21:01:06 arn't these normally plus or minus 2g 8 bits Aug 10 21:01:12 Up to 2 IIRC Aug 10 21:01:21 No. Aug 10 21:01:27 what unit is that g? Aug 10 21:01:34 should be +-9g :D Aug 10 21:01:42 1g = 9.81m/s^2 Aug 10 21:01:43 jiten, 9.81m/sē Aug 10 21:01:45 no way - not very useful Aug 10 21:01:45 The one in the Wii - for example does about +-3G and resolution to 1mg. Aug 10 21:01:46 1 g -> 9.8ms/ Aug 10 21:01:54 which is about 16 times better. Aug 10 21:02:00 resolution-wise. Aug 10 21:02:01 someone around with libgsmd-knowledge? Aug 10 21:02:07 SpeedEvil, heh then if you drop the moko it can measure the impact.. :) Aug 10 21:02:11 yeah, my thinkpad has nice accelerometers Aug 10 21:02:26 those accelerometers don't sound useful for much then Aug 10 21:02:32 2G is pretty normal for tilt sensing Aug 10 21:02:38 an games Aug 10 21:02:41 mdt: Go ahead, someone may answer :P Aug 10 21:02:42 Jiten: They give you 'down' to within around a degree. Aug 10 21:02:56 They don't give you more. Aug 10 21:03:12 so you can only really measure the tilt? not movements? Aug 10 21:03:45 i use libgsm (i deinstalled openmoko-gui) directly. after a lgsm_init (return value is non NULL) lgsm_phone_power coredumps the process... Aug 10 21:04:54 mdt: Did you try libgsm-tool? Aug 10 21:05:05 HistoryOnTheRoad, shure - works fine Aug 10 21:05:13 i copied my source more or less from there... Aug 10 21:05:36 And are you building a roll your own version, or are you using one of the publicly available ones? Aug 10 21:05:58 mdt: and doing things through -tool works fine? Aug 10 21:06:08 but neo1973's usb Aug 10 21:06:14 HistoryOnTheRoad, i build my own via mokomakefile Aug 10 21:06:15 is pnpowered? Aug 10 21:06:20 *unpowered Aug 10 21:06:28 HistoryOnTheRoad, -tool? Aug 10 21:07:07 libgsm-tool Aug 10 21:07:42 HistoryOnTheRoad, as i sayed: works wonderful (issued and answered calls already Aug 10 21:07:50 I'm not an expert, but if it's coring, I'd expecting you stealing the pooty. Aug 10 21:08:02 Or stepping on the stack somewhere. Aug 10 21:08:27 oh right, I misread that. looks like it'll be just fine for UI. Aug 10 21:08:32 Are you running on real hardware, or in the emulator? Aug 10 21:09:40 HistoryOnTheRoad, on the real one... Aug 10 21:10:35 ok. What language are you writing in? (C?) Aug 10 21:12:40 HistoryOnTheRoad, hm, gsmd seems to have ended... i restartet gsmd now it works :/ Aug 10 21:13:04 gsmd is known to crash if you look at it the wrong way Aug 10 21:13:10 Don't expect daemons and stuff to be stable. This is alpha software :) Aug 10 21:13:19 pre-alpha Aug 10 21:13:23 HistoryOnTheRoad, problem is the init funktion does not return a NULL pointer but the structure seems to be corrupt... Aug 10 21:13:34 * HistoryOnTheRoad looks at Writchie's gsmd the wrong way Aug 10 21:13:48 HistoryOnTheRoad, is it possible to diskuss the api to gsmd? Aug 10 21:14:03 yes Aug 10 21:14:24 mdt: Sure ... again, i'm not an expert, just hacking along with all the rest :) Aug 10 21:18:34 HistoryOnTheRoad, but where would be the right place to start architectural discussions? Aug 10 21:18:55 mdt: on the mailing list for gsmd-dev Aug 10 21:19:21 you might want to read the archives first Aug 10 21:19:54 Writchie, i think i am alredy on it... Aug 10 21:23:27 hi there. Aug 10 21:24:19 ciao bedboi Aug 10 21:28:52 counter Aug 10 21:28:52 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1799;252) Aug 10 21:31:40 so the next shipping date is still around 10 september? Aug 10 21:31:58 We don't know. Aug 10 21:32:14 Some may still be left to ship this month Aug 10 21:32:44 There was an indication that another batch will be arriving in the US from FIC on the 10th of Sept. But that doesn't mean they'll ship on the 10th, of course. Aug 10 21:33:23 Sigh. Aug 10 21:33:29 We don't even want much info. Aug 10 21:33:41 One line from each core-team member per week is not too much to ask. Aug 10 21:33:53 or from *a* core team Aug 10 21:34:13 And, of course, nobody has officially altered the october ship date for the P2 units -- so go figure. They can't possibly expect to ship P1's in mid-late Sept if they are stil planning to ship P2's in October. Aug 10 21:34:15 let us know that a) y'all haven't been hit by a bus and b) you're still getting work done. Aug 10 21:35:11 We're working hard. We're going to keep working hard. You'll see results soon Aug 10 21:35:39 You know the age-old adage about how in the absence of facts, people will invent their own which are almost always the worst case... it would be to the core team's own benefit to set expectations with a few words a week... Aug 10 21:36:55 * HistoryOnTheRoad can say that at least a few of the members haven't been hit by a bus, as I've heard from some of them in the last week. Aug 10 21:37:03 http://planet.openmoko.org/ Aug 10 21:37:20 dev blog of sorts Aug 10 21:37:32 I think that a lot of people are expecting a "managed" presence, and that isn't happening yet. Aug 10 21:37:50 ;) yeah, but the last actual post there by a core team member was an apology for the misinformation they provided the day before... :-D Aug 10 21:37:59 Ouch! Aug 10 21:38:34 sure, but there's a post below that that shows where they're at, even if not including ship dates Aug 10 21:39:02 maybe they don't know yet :/ Aug 10 21:39:58 anyone know what the difference between the hxd8 and the neo1973 might be? Aug 10 21:40:06 *I* suspect they don't know -- which is probably the worst case speculation. As most capable managers know, not knowing is worse than any possible bad news. Aug 10 21:40:17 The FIC/Openmoko team don't have a proper "PR" team yet. Aug 10 21:40:30 We're not expecting polished PR. Aug 10 21:40:32 I've worked with my customers for 20 years now. I don't have a PR team either. Aug 10 21:40:34 Those are the people that project dates and "talk" to consumers. Aug 10 21:40:49 Saying that 'we can't tell you anything because we're busy' is however a cop-out. Aug 10 21:41:13 When a line a week is quite adequate for some things is ... Aug 10 21:41:26 mwester: Do you have thousands of bloodthirsty customers waiting on any peep of news for a new toy? :) Aug 10 21:41:28 As someone pointed out, they wouldn't have those 1,000 status emails to deal with, if they had provided some information in the first place. :) Aug 10 21:41:35 HistoryOnTheRoad: I have. Aug 10 21:41:48 Alas, not at this moment. Aug 10 21:42:09 i'm not saying that the team is doing a good job, don't get me wrong. I just don't think they've been down this road. (This is PR/customer relations wise) Aug 10 21:42:39 Years ago, I recall loaning customers the then-brand-new Sun SPARC workstations, and getting the demo units back without memory, or missing disks... it was bad. Aug 10 21:43:06 Ouch. Aug 10 21:43:09 But we couldn't ship the real products, so we forced the customers to do what they needed to run their own businesses. Aug 10 21:44:15 I suspect that the guys actually have an idea of when things are happening on their side ... Aug 10 21:44:21 It was the same problem this core team has: at the time we were very successful in generating customer interest in the new systems, many customers changed orders for the old Motorola-based computers for the new ones --- and then the factory couldn't ship. Aug 10 21:45:05 HistoryOnTheRoad: I hope they have an idea, but I cannot imagine how giving no news to us, even in response to order inquiries, is better than giving us the worst possible news. Aug 10 21:45:57 that all devices got burned Aug 10 21:46:00 ? :) Aug 10 21:46:41 Even that would be better news -- those with $$$$$$ tied up waiting for FIC to charge the credit card could go on with other things until P2 ships. Aug 10 21:49:16 I think some of it might be more fundamental Aug 10 21:49:26 They do a run of let's say 1000 devices Aug 10 21:49:29 The worst possible news, IMO is this: The core team would like to tell us that the P1's that won't ship in August should just cancel and order P2's instead, but they are now part of FIC, and FIC's management will not let them do that, because the order cancellations will affect the financials for this little group for the quarter. Aug 10 21:49:50 QA, they get 950 out. Ship to US, maybe another round of QA ... Aug 10 21:50:06 no way to predict how many devices are shipable. Aug 10 21:50:53 But then you say that -- "backordered, planned ship date is xx/yy/2007" Aug 10 21:50:59 I've never done hardware production, so I honestly have zero clue about turnarounds and other stuff. Aug 10 21:52:19 These runs are so small for a company like FIC that I'm sure it's a huge problem to do only 1000 units at a time. Even so, the first batch was manufactured in May, QA'd around week 2 of June, and took until August to ship. Aug 10 21:52:35 Now I'm off into 100% speculation territory, but my guess is that FIC have only done FOB Taiwan until now. So there might be some variables there that are difficult, at best, to predict. Aug 10 21:53:02 The other side is (like the gps driver isssue) there are non-technical hurdles to overcome. Aug 10 21:53:17 Well, it is certainly true that FIC is accustomed to shipping by the pallet-full, not small batches! Aug 10 21:54:01 The GPS driver and the broken GPRS are not commited to be fixed for any P1 units. Aug 10 21:54:18 SpeedEvil: so if TI won't let FIC release the GSM firmware, how will we go about flashing the modems? Aug 10 21:54:31 mwester, will we be able to get the driver from the p2 images? Aug 10 21:54:32 In all likelyhood the units shipping in late Sept will still not have a driver for the GPS, and won't work with many of the AT&T SIM cards. Aug 10 21:54:34 send it back to FIC Aug 10 21:54:52 daMaestro: I can't see why not. That much we should be able to fix ourselves. Aug 10 21:54:54 GPS driver is "in the works", so the grapvine says. That I'm sure will be ironed out, hopefully sooner rather then later. Aug 10 21:54:58 mwester, cool Aug 10 21:55:05 broken GPRS? Aug 10 21:55:20 yeah, what is wrong with GPRS? Aug 10 21:55:20 * LarstiQ has faith in Elrond Aug 10 21:55:23 ckuethe: will TI pay for my shipping because its their lame rule? Aug 10 21:55:35 calamous_, doubt it Aug 10 21:55:37 gprs? is 0710 implemented? Aug 10 21:55:45 probably not Aug 10 21:55:54 * hozer wonders if he should cancel his order and wait for a GTA02 Aug 10 21:56:03 Well, when the Time comes the ship it back to FIC I will call T.I. and ask them Aug 10 21:56:07 they will say that their chip works with carriers X Y and Z Aug 10 21:56:12 hozer, not if you want to hack on it and make gta02 better ;-) Aug 10 21:56:14 thus carrier A is broken Aug 10 21:56:21 There seems to be a problem with the firmware in the TI GPRS -- see the wiki for the issues around the AT&T sims. Apparently it's in the hands of TI to fix, but TI will not release the software to reload firmware, so nobody knows how we'll get the P1's working with those SIMS. Aug 10 21:57:18 hozer: We're speculating, based on very little. For all we know FIC have just finsihed the legal docs and GPS and GSM cardreader upgrades are on the way. :P Aug 10 21:57:24 daMaestro: I do want to hack.. but I dunno if I'll have much time before november Aug 10 21:57:36 hozer, then you might just wait Aug 10 21:57:37 who knows. Aug 10 21:57:50 the hardware is decently solid, with misc expected issues Aug 10 21:58:02 the only truely annoying one is the att sim issues Aug 10 21:58:03 okay, so I'll be able to reliably make phonecalls Aug 10 21:58:13 the battery issues are a little pita'ish Aug 10 21:58:15 there's no way the gta02 is shipping in oct. Aug 10 21:58:21 hozer, no.. not really Aug 10 21:58:24 Hehe! Yep, speculation is almost always negative. It could be that the holdup for the shipments is because they are intending to upgrade all the outstanding P1 orders to P2 units at no charge. ;) Aug 10 21:58:24 (speculation) Aug 10 21:58:31 hozer, at least not from the last build i used Aug 10 21:58:40 daMaestro: but that's all software ;) Aug 10 21:58:57 mwester: I see the TI firmware issue as a distribution issue. TI won't let _end users_ have the flashing tool. But that doesn't mean only FIC Taiwan (or California) have to flash the devices. Aug 10 21:59:00 hozer, i can make and take phone calls after dealing with the software issues Aug 10 21:59:00 I need to make phonecalls, get GPRS, use the phone as a bluetooth modem Aug 10 21:59:15 hozer, with regards to those requirements.. the software is not ready, but will be Aug 10 21:59:20 it is getting better daily Aug 10 21:59:22 HistoryOnTheRoad: Interesting point. Perhaps they can find service centers in the major cities... Aug 10 21:59:42 * hozer wants to get the phone and try to get Iowa Wireless to carry it Aug 10 21:59:48 HistoryOnTheRoad: I hope this will be resolved soon (as in the month of august) Aug 10 21:59:57 Iowa Wireless?? :-D Aug 10 22:00:22 mwester: local GSM carrier.. they seem to use a bunch of tmobile's infrastructure though Aug 10 22:00:42 hozer: While it's great to "eat your own dogfood", and that will get this working quicker, I wouldn't rely only on a Neo at this stage in it's software development. Aug 10 22:01:10 I'm hoping to get phone calls working. One baby step at a time :) Aug 10 22:01:14 it is a good hacker's toy though. Aug 10 22:01:24 being infinitely more hackable than anything else around. Aug 10 22:01:40 HistoryOnTheRoad: I'm keeping my treo650 for awhile yet ;) Aug 10 22:02:16 calamous_: Not all of it is up to FIC. Legal stuff takes annoyingly long Aug 10 22:02:22 Granted *we* did not purchase the GSM modem from TI, I'm wondering if its in our domain to complain: http://www-k.ext.ti.com/sc/technical-support/email-tech-support.asp Aug 10 22:02:24 hozer: Where in Iowa are ya? Aug 10 22:02:54 Ames, IA Aug 10 22:02:58 "Your broke-ass firmware dosent work" + details Aug 10 22:03:32 hozer: Cool. Don't bet your biz, but if stuff is broken and you are using it regularly then you have a motivation to fix it. :) Aug 10 22:03:39 We really don't know that it's their firmware. That's just what the bug report claims. Aug 10 22:03:52 hozer: Cool. I've got family in Davenport and Des Moines. Aug 10 22:04:19 True, But maybe they could tell us who can fix it Aug 10 22:04:32 HistoryOnTheRoad: or at least motivation to file bug reports and test builds Aug 10 22:04:33 give us a referral Aug 10 22:04:35 hi is there anybody here with a gta01bv4, who could possibly help me? I just received mine today, but I can't flash the rootfs, because dfu -l shows only 1 line "Found Runtime: ..... name="UNDEFINED"" and when I run dfu -l again the result is .... name="USB Device Firmware Upgrade" Aug 10 22:04:35 Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) Aug 10 22:04:35 For all we know, pin 27 needs to be connected to pin 31 via a 1K ohm resistor to enable AT&T sims, and somebody missed that trace on the PCB (just a silly example) Aug 10 22:04:39 calamous_: I'd wait to see what FIC says first. Aug 10 22:05:32 HistoryOnTheRoad: yeah I know, just want it fixed s00n ;p Aug 10 22:05:35 so.. if anyone else here is in Iowa, please update the OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Iowa-Ames wikipage Aug 10 22:06:12 hozer: What's the roaming rates from them? :P Aug 10 22:06:30 um.. not sure Aug 10 22:06:36 www.iwireless.com Aug 10 22:06:47 calamous_: :) Don't we all. My suggestion would be to find something else to hack in the meantime :P Aug 10 22:06:59 HistoryOnTheRoad: yeah. Aug 10 22:07:11 did anyone hear about what at&t did at lollapalooza? Aug 10 22:07:27 They sang? Aug 10 22:07:53 No they censered perl jam when thay sang: "George Bush leave this world alone" Aug 10 22:08:01 calamous_ seems they Aug 10 22:08:07 have done it at a few different events Aug 10 22:08:19 http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/2007/08/09/att-plays-gatekeeper-censors-pearl-jam/ Aug 10 22:08:34 HistoryOnTheRoad: https://www.iwireless.com/plans_detail.asp?plan=49 Aug 10 22:08:35 We need net neutrality Aug 10 22:08:56 calamous_: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/agendas/att-may-have-censored-bands-political-speech-in-the-past-288236.php Aug 10 22:09:24 calamous_: last thing we need is regulation of the internet. Consumers should hurt the companies :| Aug 10 22:09:34 but then they won't get their iphones :| Aug 10 22:09:36 doc|work: wow, that makes me so angry Aug 10 22:09:50 calamous_: no more than at & t aiding the NSA in wiretapping :( Aug 10 22:09:52 Don't other contries besides the U.S. actually have riots? Aug 10 22:10:05 doc|work: did you know at&t used to be for privacy Aug 10 22:10:06 if there was a riot, do you think you'd know about it? Aug 10 22:10:22 it's not like it would be reported properly Aug 10 22:10:32 back in the 20s the government wire tapped phones and at&t took the case to the surpieme court, they used to be the good guys Aug 10 22:10:38 calamous_: nope, but there's money to be made when countries are at war :/ Aug 10 22:10:46 http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005397.php Aug 10 22:11:00 even when the war is on a strategy rather than an enemy Aug 10 22:11:11 I can't believe at&t at one point actually cared about consumers Aug 10 22:11:16 hozer: wow, pricey :P ... but maybe if I come for a visit I'll grab one Aug 10 22:11:40 doc|work: yeah thats true Aug 10 22:11:59 methinks it's time for pitchforks Aug 10 22:12:10 doc|work: good point about the riots, I would not know Aug 10 22:12:24 HistoryOnTheRoad: that was for 2 months prepaid Aug 10 22:12:56 doc|work: I guess thats life in Oceania Aug 10 22:12:58 calamous_: that's a nice article Aug 10 22:13:07 calamous_: always been at war etc etc :( Aug 10 22:13:31 Perhaps it will be different in Eurasia Aug 10 22:13:41 doc|work: heh.. now Perl jam posted it on their web site, and ATT says they are attempting to get permission from perl jam to post the song in its entirety on the ATT blueroom website Aug 10 22:13:48 Do you think that If I was a member of the inner party my phone's firmware would be fixed faster? Aug 10 22:14:11 they claim someone screwed up and ommitted the lyrics.. Aug 10 22:14:24 hozer: for real? Aug 10 22:14:31 I almost think someone 'censored' it on purpose to get press Aug 10 22:14:38 The person just happened to mess up when George Bush's name was mentioned Aug 10 22:14:40 Twice Aug 10 22:14:52 hozer: they also claimed it was a once off http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/agendas/att-may-have-censored-bands-political-speech-in-the-past-288236.php Aug 10 22:15:14 they're trying to make a save, and given the shit they've pulled with the NSA, I for one, aren't buying it Aug 10 22:15:23 and now instead of nobody noticing, everyone is going to be downloading it Aug 10 22:15:57 so if someone really *was* trying to censor it, they screwed up big time. Aug 10 22:16:00 I'm wating for at&t to change from english to newspeak Aug 10 22:16:13 they use it already Aug 10 22:16:19 wiretapping is doubleplusgood! Aug 10 22:16:22 scum Aug 10 22:16:23 and make you believe it's still english Aug 10 22:16:47 if nothing else put me off the iphone, it would be at & t Aug 10 22:17:27 Well to be an iphone user you must be able to doublethink Aug 10 22:18:04 that's the apple way anyway :) Aug 10 22:18:07 all hail steve! Aug 10 22:18:09 hey, I finally got audio, but when I make a call I get this horrible feedback noise - any idea how to deal with that? Aug 10 22:18:17 I dont like iJobs Aug 10 22:18:23 Did you hear about the fake steve blog Aug 10 22:18:45 http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/ Aug 10 22:19:03 http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/08/in-case-youre-wondering-yes-someone-got.html Aug 10 22:19:07 thats a really funny one Aug 10 22:20:52 LarstiQ - What did you mean with the faith in me? Aug 10 22:21:01 Elrond: working on gps Aug 10 22:22:56 If you go to fakesteeve's profile his intersts are: mock turtlenecks, the color black Aug 10 22:23:51 This picture is funny: http://www.frontlinescreative.com/iJobs.jpg Aug 10 22:24:12 LarstiQ - Ohhh. Well... Don't hold your breath, please. Aug 10 22:24:53 Elrond: I'm not, don't worry. Aug 10 22:25:02 * LarstiQ still needs to get his neo first. Aug 10 22:26:08 LarstiQ - Why specifically in me, and not in ph5 or Dmitry or Speed? ;-) Aug 10 22:27:20 Elrond: because I know you longer ;P Aug 10 22:27:57 hehe. ;o) Aug 10 22:28:21 which might be the reason my mind primarily associates you with the effort, even if I'm thankful for the rest too Aug 10 22:28:39 hehe. Aug 10 22:29:23 LarstiQ - ph5 did the base packet protocol. :-) Aug 10 22:29:42 * Elrond feels somewhat re-recognized. ;o) Aug 10 22:31:28 so, seems sco lost their rights battle over unix. Novell can tell them to ... go away Aug 10 22:31:48 yeah Aug 10 22:47:45 Everyone should call at&t and complain Aug 10 22:47:52 about them censoring pearl jam Aug 10 22:49:36 yeah, they missed bleeping out all but a few words. Aug 10 22:50:19 @$#(*^@ thos @$#*^#@($ for @#$*&^@#$ bleeping that @#(*$^#@(*$ that @#$(*&^@#)($^ /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/jam calls @$#(*&^@#)$^ music. Aug 10 22:50:23 the what now? Aug 10 22:51:52 mickey|sports: Hmm: NOTE: package libgsmd-0.1+svnrNOT IMPLEMENTED: started Aug 10 22:52:21 cd there are problems with the space in it here Aug 10 22:52:26 -cd Aug 10 22:52:58 LarstiQ: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/10/pearl_jam_censorship/ Aug 10 22:53:10 can someone rename it to libgsmd-0.1+svnrNOT_IMPLEMENTED or something like this? Aug 10 22:56:17 Good night people. Aug 10 22:58:27 ckuethe: ah. Aug 10 23:03:27 calamous_: rather than complaining to att, just cancel service Aug 10 23:03:39 they have to lose money before they'll take it seriously Aug 10 23:03:55 and they have to lose a lot of money before they'll actually make useful changes Aug 10 23:07:27 hey guys, just wondering... is software sim card support possible? Aug 10 23:08:18 like get loads of prepay sim cards and clone them, and use up the free texts/internet/minutes depending on the deal, then delete them when they run out Aug 10 23:11:52 no Aug 10 23:12:17 hey what has working drivers currently? does bluetooth work? Aug 10 23:12:23 i got audio and graphics Aug 10 23:12:26 bt does work fine Aug 10 23:12:28 usb ethernet works Aug 10 23:12:34 ya i got that Aug 10 23:12:42 anything else? Aug 10 23:12:56 gsm semiworks, though the daemon is crashy Aug 10 23:13:01 oh Aug 10 23:13:09 i didnt know that Aug 10 23:13:12 oh Aug 10 23:13:22 gsm, nevermind. i THought you were talking about gps Aug 10 23:13:38 I don't have gsm service for it currently Aug 10 23:13:41 gps drivers are warez atm :( Aug 10 23:14:18 meaning people arent even technically allowed to let me have a binary? Aug 10 23:14:26 yeah Aug 10 23:15:04 are the gps drivers also not open source? Aug 10 23:15:28 the are not Aug 10 23:15:34 bugger :/ Aug 10 23:15:43 that's the only exception (as for software on the SoC) Aug 10 23:15:53 that and the gsm Aug 10 23:15:58 firmware Aug 10 23:16:02 gsm stack isn't on the SoC Aug 10 23:16:10 indeed Aug 10 23:16:14 the gsm firmware has a bug that prevents it from working with my current sim Aug 10 23:16:15 heh Aug 10 23:16:22 (att/cingular) Aug 10 23:16:24 * calamous_ cries over the mention of the GSM firmware Aug 10 23:16:38 calamous_, did you expect miracles? Aug 10 23:17:00 * calamous_ sits down on the ground and prays to donald knuth Aug 10 23:17:08 anyway, gps RE seems to be underway by a couple of people here Aug 10 23:17:22 oh cool Aug 10 23:17:40 do they have day jobs? Aug 10 23:17:44 heh Aug 10 23:17:54 they've managed to get some coarse data from the chip, but still much to do, AFAIK Aug 10 23:18:00 dunno Aug 10 23:18:43 i accidently used the stylus' ink pen on the screen Aug 10 23:19:06 it even inked it up, but i never peeld the protective plastic off Aug 10 23:19:27 i also got myself in the eye with the stylus' lazer Aug 10 23:19:37 heh Aug 10 23:19:55 SpeedEvil: do you have the GPS driver/daemon? Aug 10 23:19:59 you should be their idiot-proofing beta tester :) Aug 10 23:20:11 * doc|work ducks Aug 10 23:20:20 lol Aug 10 23:21:57 hi. maybe there's someone around experienced with u-boot and nand? Aug 10 23:22:39 maybe the ink pen can be removed and the batteries Aug 10 23:24:46 Guess I should rather state my problem... Aug 10 23:26:30 I erased nand by issuing 'nand erase kernel' and 'nand erase rootfs'. Since then I get only 'Bad magic number' when trying to boot. Anybody any ideas, how to get out of this? Aug 10 23:27:04 you expected it to still boot after erasing the nand? Aug 10 23:27:41 ok, of course i flashed kernal and rootfs again after that :-) Aug 10 23:29:35 maybe the gsmd crashes if the client forgets lgsm_exit? Aug 10 23:30:38 it only charges when i plug it into a linux computer, not a windows one Aug 10 23:30:54 and while charging, apm doesnt indicate teh battery level Aug 10 23:31:02 are there any informations about the current mailinglist status? Aug 10 23:32:05 orzo: while charging, it doesn't know the battery level Aug 10 23:32:23 orzo: it cannot measure the battery voltage, because the charger is pulling the voltage up Aug 10 23:33:02 orzo: several gadgets I've seem display a "charging" icon instead of the battery level when charging Aug 10 23:33:23 ok Aug 10 23:34:29 cesarb, I have a win mobile device from HTC (shame on me!) that shows can display the battery status while charging Aug 10 23:34:45 openmoko shows charging icon when charging. Aug 10 23:34:56 and I have several other gadgets (including my nokias) that only display the "charging"-icon Aug 10 23:38:19 it would be nice to know the battery level while charging Aug 10 23:38:37 that's how motorola do it Aug 10 23:39:20 well, I don't know how long the neo takes until it's battery is fully charged - but it shouldn't be too long Aug 10 23:39:23 so it doesnt really matter Aug 10 23:39:51 the ui could make a guesstimate Aug 10 23:39:57 my iAudio dap takes about 6 hours, thats much longer (and it doesn't show the status, too) Aug 10 23:40:14 usting some of Richard Hughsies algorioms Aug 10 23:41:35 Does the PMU tell us the current charging current/voltage? Aug 10 23:42:11 (if it does, we can estimate how long until it's finished, even in the constant voltage phase) Aug 11 00:00:13 plugged into a USB port and not operating in fast charge mode the neo battery can take about 20 hours to reach its full charge in that mode (about 65% capacity). Aug 11 00:00:44 this is from a completed depleted condition. Aug 11 00:01:39 the hardware appears to have some design flaw limiting the charge to about 45ma instead of the 100ma intended. Aug 11 00:02:23 in practise, the software will eventually be able to provide a rational charging scenario. Aug 11 00:03:02 but its nevery going to work anywhere near as well as it could on the present hardware. Aug 11 00:03:31 we can only hope that GTA02 will be bettery but it may be that we will have to wait for GTA03 Aug 11 00:04:32 GTA02 has a bigger battery which should help some. Aug 11 00:05:05 it's hard to get charging and PM right Aug 11 00:05:29 its impossible if you don't have design reviews or listen to people with gray hair Aug 11 00:06:13 PM? Aug 11 00:06:18 power management Aug 11 00:06:19 power management? Aug 11 00:06:22 thanks :) Aug 11 00:06:48 li-ion is tricky Aug 11 00:07:14 to get true power indications you need to monitor current into and out of the battery Aug 11 00:07:15 I thought li-ion was a bit crap in comparison to some newer ones? Aug 11 00:08:17 the whole li-ion, li-polysilicon, family is pretty similar except for safety issues Aug 11 00:11:38 Writchie: with li-ion, you must not get water on it, and you must never charge it after midnight? Aug 11 00:12:08 and don't fall asleep with the device on your lap Aug 11 00:13:17 all li-ion batteries have internal protection devices Aug 11 00:13:26 many have a microprocessor Aug 11 00:16:13 Writchie don't li-poly also need taht? Aug 11 00:17:10 taht? Aug 11 00:18:25 Writchie sry doesn't li-poly also need a charge controller, temperature sensors and stuff? Aug 11 00:18:51 yes, pretty much the same Aug 11 00:19:14 its just a bit safer and usually better capacity per volume Aug 11 00:19:40 ahkay, right - i see Aug 11 00:19:59 at this point i would recommend removing battery when neo is not in use Aug 11 00:20:15 to eliminate deep discharge which can be very bad for the battery Aug 11 00:20:53 if not removal, open case, and temporaily remove battery to insure everything is off. Then you can re-insert the battery. Aug 11 00:21:27 Present software is known to leave the GSM modem on under many conditions which can lead to deep discharge after a couple of days. Aug 11 00:22:18 none of this is unusual at this stage of development. This is a developer preview product and should not be expected to work properly at this stage Aug 11 00:24:09 Writchie: yeah, connecting the GSM modem directly to the battery is not a very good idea Aug 11 00:24:24 Writchie: in fact, I think nothing should be connected to the battery but the PMU chip Aug 11 00:24:29 i think its actually a good idea Aug 11 00:24:49 Writchie: why? Aug 11 00:25:10 it results in the cleanest power for the radio stack Aug 11 00:30:47 /quit fleeee Aug 11 00:54:38 Sure is quiet today Aug 11 00:54:42 * sagacis listens to the crickets Aug 11 00:58:56 anybody know what's happening with the mailing lists? Aug 11 01:00:08 Nope. They are down.... :( Aug 11 01:02:41 yup. obviously a pretty serious failure on a server Aug 11 01:03:18 have the devs moved to working on 2007.2? Aug 11 01:03:40 I'm wondering if I should start flashing my Neo with 2007.2 code for testing Aug 11 01:03:58 I think it's time to re-flash... Aug 11 01:04:01 For me Aug 11 01:04:25 Many of the OM guys are at camp in Germany, where they are working on 2007.2 Aug 11 01:04:25 what was the last image you used? Aug 11 01:04:37 ahhh. Aug 11 01:04:47 I'm using a non-.2 image I built myself a couple days ago Aug 11 01:04:51 It's been pretty stable. Aug 11 01:05:08 yup - me too and same Aug 11 01:05:13 Got phone working, got gprs working, need a better web browser.... Aug 11 01:05:24 Tried to get dillo2 and minimo working, but no joy yet. Aug 11 01:05:36 Thought I'd see what was up in the latest nlu images Aug 11 01:05:37 gprs - really? difficult? Aug 11 01:05:52 Nope. Follow the instructions. You need to think about a few things, too. Aug 11 01:06:13 righto - will check it out Aug 11 01:07:10 found it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS Aug 11 01:07:37 The script calls for a "gprs-disconnect-chat" but it works without it. Aug 11 01:07:51 I think I'll flash my qemu first with the latest .2 build Aug 11 01:09:24 cool. thanks for the link. Aug 11 01:09:35 yup - sounds like a good idea Aug 11 01:10:00 I saw a few comments here that sounded like it's a little rough atm Aug 11 01:11:23 It was the last time I tried it. It looks nice, but not quite as stable. Aug 11 01:11:29 Almost nothing worked out of the box. Aug 11 01:11:45 I recommend "nand erase rootfs" before each flash Aug 11 01:14:56 .2 is more stable now Aug 11 01:15:07 but i cant get it buid at the momment :\ Aug 11 01:16:05 sagacis: will make sure I erase the rootfs. ta for the tip Aug 11 01:16:29 is it going to use X or are they moving to directfb? Aug 11 01:16:36 borg_: were any of the functions more usable: phone, sms? Aug 11 01:17:14 dotmef: no Aug 11 01:17:31 the feedreader works nice in .2 Aug 11 01:18:11 cool. Aug 11 01:18:40 and there are somehow lots of games Aug 11 01:18:50 and you can use all applications with finger in .2 Aug 11 01:18:52 Lots of games, most of which don't quite work Aug 11 01:19:07 hmm. is there chess? Aug 11 01:19:16 dotmef, nope Aug 11 01:19:20 ok.. i just got an att sim Aug 11 01:19:23 checking if it works now Aug 11 01:19:23 only tiny games... Aug 11 01:19:31 daMaestro, is it 3G? Aug 11 01:19:35 dammit - I was thinking it might be good to port Aug 11 01:19:36 yes Aug 11 01:19:47 but there are some that *are* reported working Aug 11 01:19:49 * sagacis wishes you luck Aug 11 01:20:02 I think it depends on your area and band coverage Aug 11 01:20:03 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Aug 11 01:20:20 well i already tested ~5 different sims, with no luck Aug 11 01:20:24 I bought a 2G chip off e-bay Aug 11 01:20:27 It's working well Aug 11 01:26:05 borg_, I'm trying the build-oops, didin't work Aug 11 01:29:22 Getting the new mastermakefile broke my old mokomakefile, I think Aug 11 01:30:07 hmmmmmmmm, well i'm not seeing the issues with the sim that i have in the past Aug 11 01:30:16 good news? Aug 11 01:30:25 i'm getting %CPI: 1,9,0,0,0,0,"013035551212",129,,,0 Aug 11 01:30:25 %CPI: 1,8,0,0,,,,,,102,0 Aug 11 01:30:25 NO CARRIER Aug 11 01:30:51 In response to? Aug 11 01:31:04 ATD013035551212; Aug 11 01:31:25 but i'm seeing stuff that i see with my tmobile sim: +CREG: 1,"1B76","2E56" Aug 11 01:32:07 Where are you? Aug 11 01:32:15 mwhawhhahahaha Aug 11 01:32:17 it works! Aug 11 01:32:23 * sagacis cheers! Aug 11 01:32:25 :) Aug 11 01:32:38 cool, i'll update the wiki with the sim model info Aug 11 01:33:07 Cool! You can use my handset.state from http://drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/sagacis/PublicFolder/handset.sagacis.state if you want. Aug 11 01:33:09 this is a brand new sim Aug 11 01:33:17 sagacis, make sure to commit a patch Aug 11 01:33:19 I guess you fixed it! Aug 11 01:33:32 the audio shiet really needs fixing Aug 11 01:33:48 OK. It's just a setting combo. Pretty minor really. Aug 11 01:33:58 I guess it is a patch. It's only for handset calls Aug 11 01:37:16 nice, the sim i have is listed already as working Aug 11 01:37:26 71234 O 4022 blazing 3G fireball WalMart $18 Cingular Go phone package. This chip was also given with a contract plan. (Two confirmed working.) Aug 11 01:39:10 time to find a build where gsmd works Aug 11 01:39:12 :-D Aug 11 01:39:59 Psi, heya Aug 11 01:40:08 Psi, have any luck actually making calls with the 09 build? Aug 11 01:40:15 only with gsmtool Aug 11 01:40:19 Psi, via the UI that is.. i can make calls with cli Aug 11 01:40:20 but didnt get any audio Aug 11 01:40:31 na, no go with UI Aug 11 01:40:56 hmm i'm going to try the 08 image from mickey Aug 11 01:41:11 i have still not been able to build OM2007.2 Aug 11 01:41:16 git is still failing to build Aug 11 01:42:08 blah, i got a razrv3 with my att contract Aug 11 01:42:10 it makes me sick Aug 11 01:44:03 reason ive been offline is my media box psu fried :( Aug 11 01:44:14 just got back with a new one and its up and running again :) Aug 11 01:44:23 i run xchat on that box Aug 11 01:45:23 daMaestro: The current builds gsmd works OK. I made two phone calls with the dialer Aug 11 01:45:38 hmm Aug 11 01:45:44 sagacis, om2007.2? Aug 11 01:45:48 Nope. Aug 11 01:45:58 ahh, yeah i had good luck with dialing in om2007 Aug 11 01:45:59 I also got gprs working last night and chatted from the neo Aug 11 01:46:08 om2007.2 is such a ui upgrade i'm not looking back Aug 11 01:46:17 sagacis: you need to keep mokomakefile and mastermakefile separate - they are not compatible Aug 11 01:46:18 I've never gotten anything real to work on .2 Aug 11 01:46:32 rwhitby: I am keeping them separate Aug 11 01:46:46 i played back to the future 1 on .2 Does that count? Aug 11 01:46:49 if you have, then one cannot break the other Aug 11 01:47:05 Brad Pitcher submitted a patch to bug 681 (handset volume) Aug 11 01:47:24 Hmm... maybe I didn't. Aug 11 01:47:26 ok, so it was like 320x180 or something, but it played :P Aug 11 01:47:30 keep them separate Aug 11 01:47:39 Psi: Cool! Aug 11 01:48:19 rwhitby: I'm running MasterMakefile in one directory, and MokoMakefile in another Aug 11 01:48:29 i laughed when i heard from the neo "When this baby hits 88mph, your gunna see some serious shit" Aug 11 01:48:44 lol Aug 11 01:48:54 Psi: Using mplayer? Aug 11 01:48:57 yeah Aug 11 01:48:57 anyone got prboom working on it? Aug 11 01:48:58 sagacis: right - neither of them write anything outside their directory tree. Aug 11 01:49:20 it was either mpeg1 or mjpeg Aug 11 01:49:27 rwhitby: My MasterMakefile is in a subdirectory of the Makefile directory. Should I move it? Aug 11 01:49:32 cant remember which one worked, i tried a few encodes Aug 11 01:49:42 Did you build mplayer locally? Aug 11 01:49:54 na, someone on here built it already Aug 11 01:50:02 i just grabed the binary Aug 11 01:50:02 sagacis: I use /home/moko for mokomakefile and /home/slug for master makefile Aug 11 01:50:25 do not make one a subdirectory of the other Aug 11 01:50:27 daMaestro: Try the handset.state on bug 681 (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=681) and let me know how it works... Aug 11 01:50:39 * daMaestro looks Aug 11 01:50:43 rwhitby: That's probably where I mucked it up. I"ll mv the subdir Aug 11 01:50:55 rwhitby, mind a du -hs for me? Aug 11 01:51:09 daMaestro: for which dir? Aug 11 01:51:12 both Aug 11 01:51:23 i've had no luck with master makefile Aug 11 01:51:35 so i might need to grow my virtual drive to accommodate both Aug 11 01:51:46 are you using rm_work? Aug 11 01:51:59 they should be about the same size Aug 11 01:52:06 i don't know.. all i've done is make update && make ....-image Aug 11 01:52:35 i've had no time to be serious about the platform yet Aug 11 01:52:41 read the rm_work tip on the wiki page if you want to save space. Aug 11 01:52:58 not too worried about the space.. i can easily grow the lvm to whatever is needed Aug 11 01:53:03 * rwhitby wonders why no-one ever reads the single mokomakefile wiki page while waiting the 9 hours for a build to complete ... Aug 11 01:58:02 rwhitby: I and others do truly appreciate the effort that went into the makefiles. I'd still be reading OE bitbake instructions if not for that. Aug 11 01:58:28 +1 Aug 11 01:59:12 One of the MasterMakefile instructions is to remove monotone and install the new one with patches. This is where my MonoMakefile stopped working. I'll get a new one and try it again. Aug 11 01:59:23 I really don't have anything to lose, and prefer the MasterMakefile, personally. Aug 11 01:59:47 where are the instructions that tell you to remove monotone? that's not correct. Aug 11 02:00:50 "sudo apt-get remove monotone #if there is one allready" Aug 11 02:00:56 and install the downgrade Aug 11 02:00:59 I did all that. Aug 11 02:02:24 sagacis: why not simply get the database for the new monotone version, as explained on the wiki? Aug 11 02:02:36 sagacis: where does it say that? that's totally wrong. Aug 11 02:02:40 no need to mess with downgrades and stuff Aug 11 02:02:52 rwhitby: I think it's on the 2007.2 page on the wiki Aug 11 02:03:17 rwhitby: (not the mokomakefile page) Aug 11 02:03:38 it is Aug 11 02:03:45 i just downloaded the correct db version Aug 11 02:05:24 Sorry, it's listed on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build_using_nslu2-linux_MasterMakefile_.28Ubuntu_7.04.29 before the db download. I just took the first option. Aug 11 02:06:15 please remove the first option completely. Aug 11 02:06:40 * cesarb thinks having to do a downgrade of a package is even more annoying than having to symlink /bin/sh to bash Aug 11 02:07:31 you shouldn't need to symlink bash either - I thought we've fixed all the bashisms Aug 11 02:07:35 i added the second option Aug 11 02:07:37 it worked for me Aug 11 02:07:42 tho you can use it Aug 11 02:07:58 borg_: using the OE snapshot is the correct option Aug 11 02:08:07 downgrading monotone is never the right option Aug 11 02:08:26 thats what i thougt Aug 11 02:09:16 ok, I removed the first option Aug 11 02:09:21 rwhitby: yes, because I refused to do the symlinking and went after the bashisms with a hammer ;-) Aug 11 02:09:47 rwhitby: OK, upgraded to 0.31. Got the db. I'll try the build again. Aug 11 02:09:56 If it takes longer than 2 minutes, that's a good sign Aug 11 02:10:27 cesarb: yeah, if you find any more we'll fix them too Aug 11 02:11:25 rwhitby: Thanks for setting me straight. I'll be much happier with .2 Aug 11 02:14:06 hmm in om2007.2 it seems like gsmd just doesn't start on boot Aug 11 02:14:54 hmm it's set to start level 35 of runlevel 5 Aug 11 02:15:22 is there maybe an ordering issue with pulseaudio and gsmd starting at the same time? Aug 11 02:16:09 Psi, the dialer works in the 08 image from mickey Aug 11 02:17:55 i'm looking for pngtopnm on ubuntu for the qemu setup, anyone drop some knowledge? Aug 11 02:19:18 khaije: it's netpbm Aug 11 02:20:00 Sigh, another question answered clearly on the MokoMakefile wiki page. Aug 11 02:20:14 khaije: you haven't read that page, have you? Aug 11 02:20:23 i'm on that page, show me where and i'll say uncle Aug 11 02:20:31 Fifth line under QEMU Aug 11 02:20:37 netpbm ('apt-get install netpbm' in Ubuntu 7.04) Aug 11 02:20:46 daMaestro, thanks Aug 11 02:21:04 any audio? Aug 11 02:21:46 khaije: now you can't tell me you haven't had time to read the *entire* page in the time you've been waiting for things to build. Aug 11 02:22:15 (sorry for singling you out, you're just the unlucky latest offender) Aug 11 02:22:25 rwhitby: are you talking about this page --> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU ? Aug 11 02:22:31 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#QEMU Aug 11 02:22:51 oh, i was on a different page Aug 11 02:23:02 you're not using MokoMakefile? Aug 11 02:23:21 rwhitby: btw, sorry for asking when you are in a bad mood, but will mokomakefile be changed to use 2007.2, or will it be replaced by some other makefile? Aug 11 02:23:24 truthfull i don't appreciate the difference Aug 11 02:23:37 *truthfully Aug 11 02:23:43 cesarb: not in a bad mood :-) Aug 11 02:23:58 I'm coordinating with mickeyl as to when the mokomakefile changes over. Aug 11 02:24:19 (remember that mokomakefile always tracks the core team's wishes on what they want people to be building at that instant) Aug 11 02:24:31 at the moment, the estimate is sometime this coming week Aug 11 02:24:55 There. Started the build. Now to go read the instructions... ;-) Aug 11 02:25:03 khaije: well, one difference is that MokoMakefile is a standard setup, so others have documented all the dependencies you need for the build :-) Aug 11 02:25:58 rwhitby: so is it fair to say the instuctions i'm following are non-recommended? Aug 11 02:26:32 khaije: non-recommend by me ;-) but I'm not an OM employee. Aug 11 02:26:38 it seems to be working actually, but i don't mind starting over to be more optimal Aug 11 02:26:49 it was simple enough to get to this point Aug 11 02:26:55 both will work fine. Aug 11 02:26:56 rwhitby: perhaps the problem is that the OpenMoko_under_QEMU page has some FUD about it taking a huge amount of time to compile with mokomakefile in opposition to doing the manual steps Aug 11 02:27:13 cesarb: right, i noticed that Aug 11 02:27:32 Psi, will have to do the restore.. Aug 11 02:27:33 testing that now Aug 11 02:27:41 rwhitby: (cloaked under some weasel wording: it says building _all_ of mokomakefile takes ages, with the implication that using it to build/run qemu will take ages) Aug 11 02:27:44 cesarb: do you know if mokomakefile then just "make qemu" bypasses all the monotone stuff? Aug 11 02:28:06 are there salient differences between the two that you can express to me simply? Aug 11 02:28:19 is there a particular OE snapshot i should use to build .2? Aug 11 02:28:29 the trunk's libgsm is not buildable Aug 11 02:29:12 rwhitby: no, it does a setup-patches somewhere in the dependency path, which ends up calling stamps/openembedded Aug 11 02:29:24 rwhitby: but even then, monotone is slow, but not THAT slow Aug 11 02:29:38 * cesarb recalls it taking only a couple of hours Aug 11 02:30:22 i was following the instructions to build openmko from scratch Aug 11 02:30:25 grrr... Still no success... do_compile failed. Gonna go track that down Aug 11 02:31:01 when bitbake rudely installed itself not under /usr/local/ on my ubuntu box. How do i uninstall it? Aug 11 02:31:17 sagacis: hint: take a look at build/tmp/work///temp, it has the logs Aug 11 02:31:25 Psi, strange... Aug 11 02:31:33 Psi, there is no /etc/alsa/ in this build Aug 11 02:31:45 orzo: shouldn't /usr/local not be writable by a normal user? Aug 11 02:32:08 neither is /usr/ Aug 11 02:32:15 i used root Aug 11 02:32:17 it was an install Aug 11 02:32:22 i figured it'd go to /usr/local Aug 11 02:32:46 was i supposed to install it as an ordinary user? Aug 11 02:32:49 cesarb: thanks! Aug 11 02:32:57 cesarb: I added some weasel words in the other direction :-) Aug 11 02:33:12 anyway, my system is messed up now with crap put in /usr that apt didnt put there Aug 11 02:33:39 orzo: another reason to use MokoMakefle, it doesn't screw up your system Aug 11 02:33:58 well, i followed the wiki Aug 11 02:34:05 all i really wanted to do was compile aps to run on th ephone Aug 11 02:34:18 cesarb: after the switch to om2007.2, I will be able to break that dependency path Aug 11 02:34:22 but that wiki page insists i go through building openmoko from scratch Aug 11 02:34:52 It's looking for my old path. Gotta clean everything up. Aug 11 02:35:03 * sagacis recalls "rm -rf" Aug 11 02:37:07 orzo: better put a warning on the wiki page you were following to let others know they can screw their system if they follow those instructions Aug 11 02:37:13 Psi, hmm sound still not working... grr Aug 11 02:37:24 Psi, actually got it to dial (after manually starting gsmd) Aug 11 02:37:40 daMaestro: OK, I'll post my handset state to the same bug Aug 11 02:38:16 sagacis, with the "patch" it helps me none because there is no /etc/alsa (and thus no states to patch against) Aug 11 02:39:10 Oh, I see Thanks. Aug 11 02:39:32 http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmheadset.working.state didn't work either Aug 11 02:39:33 You can use the state file from http://drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/sagacis/PublicFolder/handset.sagacis.state Aug 11 02:40:02 "alsactl -f handset.sagacis.state restore" worked for me Aug 11 02:42:05 grrr... are there any plans to have gsmd auto respawn or something? Aug 11 02:43:10 daMaestro: repeat after me, "Beta testing is fun, beta testing is fun..." Aug 11 02:43:20 oh i know Aug 11 02:43:28 daMaestro: gsmd is supposed to never quit, so auto-respawning is not a good idea Aug 11 02:43:32 i would have not bought it if i didn't plan on proposing patches Aug 11 02:43:36 daMaestro: since it would mask real bugs Aug 11 02:43:45 cesarb, sure; i can see that Aug 11 02:44:25 how do i set a warning off in a box in wiki markup? Aug 11 02:44:31 If only it doesn't have so many "real" bugs Aug 11 02:47:37 Anybody get dillo2 to work OK? Aug 11 02:51:00 daMaestro: when you talked about gsmd respawn, do you mean putting a respawn entry in inittab? Aug 11 02:51:40 partly Aug 11 02:52:23 daMaestro: I finally got my phone. Yippee Aug 11 02:52:45 * sagacis shakes DukeOfURL's hand in congrats. Aug 11 02:53:07 grats, Duke Aug 11 02:53:12 except... the screen keeps going black Aug 11 02:53:23 only stays on for a few seconds Aug 11 02:53:24 nice Aug 11 02:53:26 plug it in. Charge the battery. flash. Aug 11 02:54:00 it's charged. it's flashed with the latest openmoko-devel-image. Aug 11 02:54:13 grr.... Fresh directory, fresh MasterMakefile, fresh mtn.db, still no success with build. Aug 11 02:54:56 DukeOfURL: That's odd..... Aug 11 02:56:33 when the display is off I can still ping 192.168.0.202 Aug 11 02:57:08 bad connection somewhere? Aug 11 02:57:17 in the phone? Aug 11 02:57:40 it's almost like the sleep mechanism is fscked Aug 11 02:58:09 for a while the display stayed on for a *long* time with the USB connection Aug 11 02:58:43 Had to add "help2man" to the apt-get in the OpenMoko2007.2 page. Aug 11 02:58:55 sagacis: thx Aug 11 02:58:56 battery icon shows 2/3 green Aug 11 02:59:54 * * OM Bug 695 has been created by speedevil(AT)mauve.plus.com Aug 11 02:59:55 * * Hold button on headset does not report events. Aug 11 02:59:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=695 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 11 02:59:57 2007