**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 26 02:59:57 2007 Aug 26 02:59:58 let me try that now so i dont forget Aug 26 03:00:25 ExxonValdeez: can you try starting the InputManager... it doesn't work on mine Aug 26 03:00:27 ugh, kernel update broke my sound in gutsy, thats what i get for running alpha software Aug 26 03:00:42 i have tried multiple times, doesnt work for me either Aug 26 03:01:00 Richard_: 19.7% for me Aug 26 03:02:00 Aria: yours is same with sagacis Aug 26 03:02:05 sagacis: Layer III, 128 kbps, 44100 Hz, joint stereo (MS), CRC Aug 26 03:02:13 Indeed. This is playing the included ringtones. Aug 26 03:02:44 I found a really interesting performance problem with mtpaint on the NEO last night... you might be seeing the same thing Aug 26 03:03:16 when I ran it from terminal, on the device, it can't draw a line, just plots points Aug 26 03:03:43 But when I was SSH in, exporting the display to :0 still on the device, it was much much better Aug 26 03:03:49 Aria: my madplay is with CRC, what does it mean? Aug 26 03:04:05 Richard_: Checking the CRCs of the frames for validity, on top of decoding the audio? Aug 26 03:04:58 thanks for the help! gtg Aug 26 03:05:00 Aria: perhaps, how can I disable it? Aug 26 03:05:09 Richard_: No idea. Use a file without CRCs? Aug 26 03:10:00 Aria: I tried ringtone_goodnight.mp3, madplay use 30% Aug 26 03:10:16 You using 2007.1 or .2? Aug 26 03:10:16 mplayer can use less. Aug 26 03:11:37 .2 Aug 26 03:11:44 Hm, same. Aug 26 03:12:33 I used to be able to xhost + on neo and display apps like firefox on it Aug 26 03:12:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nSJo07MsZM Aug 26 03:12:57 w/2007.2 I always get "connection refused by server" Aug 26 03:13:01 Aria: your use 30% too with the same ringtone? Aug 26 03:13:10 Nope, 20%. Aug 26 03:13:14 is tcp turned off now in their X server Aug 26 03:13:35 bmidgley: not for me Aug 26 03:13:49 weired Aug 26 03:14:42 what is the "-pn" argument to xfbdev for? Aug 26 03:15:35 -pn Aug 26 03:15:35 permits the server to continue running if it fails to establish all of its well-known sockets (connection points for clients), but establishes at least one. This option is set by default. Aug 26 03:16:01 hmm that's not gonna help Aug 26 03:16:19 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMokoFramework/pt]] [[MokoMakefile]] Aug 26 03:16:41 netstat -lnt to see the list of listening ports Aug 26 03:16:44 See if 6000 is there Aug 26 03:17:07 Aria, yes it's listening Aug 26 03:17:16 Then something more sinister is happening. Aug 26 03:22:15 I know, I recompile libmad with -O3, it's ok now. Aug 26 03:23:44 Aha! Aug 26 03:29:47 Aria: doh! I ssh to neo and run xhost + Aug 26 03:29:53 needed to run Aug 26 03:29:59 DISPLAY=:0 xhost + Aug 26 03:31:07 Oops! Aug 26 03:37:15 ok so x11vnc is working, woohoo Aug 26 03:37:27 i can see the neo's screen on my laptop and interact with it Aug 26 03:37:58 what's funny is my neo has greater vertical resolution than my laptop does! Aug 26 03:40:16 Mine too! Aug 26 03:41:15 thats sad Aug 26 03:41:17 :( Aug 26 03:41:28 and stop reminding me Aug 26 03:41:43 i suddenly have an urge to buy a new monitor... Aug 26 03:41:47 must resist.... Aug 26 03:42:42 When they have 300 dpi monitors for a price I can manage, I'll be all over it. Aug 26 03:42:50 screw dpi Aug 26 03:42:53 gimme more pixels! Aug 26 03:43:12 must ... have ... more .... PIXELS! Aug 26 03:43:22 you seen my moko ui on angstrom video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nSJo07MsZM Aug 26 03:43:50 Hehe. DPI = more pixels. Aug 26 03:44:37 I just want type at 12pt that looks good for once. Aug 26 03:44:48 I'm sick of this able-to-see-grey-pixels-halo Aug 26 03:45:10 i'll take one of dell's new 27" 1920x1200 jobs Aug 26 03:45:17 just sti back a bit Aug 26 03:45:22 and u'll get just that Aug 26 03:45:35 True true. Aug 26 03:45:47 I just like a relatively near focal distance. Stupid eyes. Aug 26 03:45:58 Got my mother's genes turned on a couple years ago. Aug 26 03:46:19 aaah Aug 26 03:46:28 needeth glasses Aug 26 03:59:53 is 2007.2 any better at handling the cingular "3g" sims? Aug 26 04:03:44 bmidgley: Doubt it. Aug 26 04:03:50 I switched to a 2G sim Aug 26 04:04:12 how Aug 26 04:05:20 Bought one on ebay and activated it on my familytalk plan Aug 26 04:13:43 stiiiiiill building openmoko-devel Aug 26 04:17:52 I seem to be running into whatever hhf ran into this morning with mah neo Aug 26 04:18:14 left the battery out for thirty minutes, to no avail...maybe it needs more charging Aug 26 04:18:17 meh Aug 26 05:17:39 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:CesarB/Compiling_for_EABI]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay]] [[IPhone]] Aug 26 05:59:01 qt4-x11-free-4.3.0-r5 takes long time to build on Intel dual core? Aug 26 06:44:14 hello Aug 26 06:46:29 hello Aug 26 06:46:32 ah ok Aug 26 07:17:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]] [[MokoMakefile]] Aug 26 07:27:24 counter Aug 26 07:27:25 http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1804;253) Aug 26 07:34:15 i have this interesting problem of not being able to turn on or charge my moko because of not using it for a day or two Aug 26 07:34:46 what can i do? and is there a bugreport somewhere so i can follow the status of that problem? Aug 26 07:37:00 philip_: take out the battery, put it back in, and start charging Aug 26 07:37:09 it's explained somewhere in the wiki Aug 26 07:40:01 so there is no bug in bugzilla about the phone discharging within a day? Aug 26 07:42:07 dmesg Aug 26 07:43:35 the battery out-in thing doesnt help Aug 26 07:44:04 it seems that the neo fails to introduce itself to the usb bus, thus not getting the 500mA Aug 26 07:56:57 philip_: so you followed the steps? Aug 26 07:57:04 take battery out for a minute Aug 26 07:57:10 put battery in Aug 26 07:57:12 plug usb Aug 26 07:57:16 leave for 20 minutes Aug 26 07:57:33 remove usb Aug 26 07:57:35 faq.. Aug 26 07:57:36 power on Aug 26 08:00:37 I just finished running a battery discharge test... the NEO lasted for 6.5 hours using the DIM Only APM Aug 26 08:01:01 no GSM or BT Aug 26 08:01:24 this isn't too much Aug 26 08:03:31 for a cpu running at full speed its not bad Aug 26 08:03:50 hello, I'm trying to build the development environment with mokomakefile, but I'm getting an error with package quilt-native-0.45 -> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. Aug 26 08:04:04 does the kernel already support frequency scaling on this cpu? Aug 26 08:04:25 may anmay anybody help me? Aug 26 08:04:42 philip_: no, it has not been implemented yet... they're working on it Aug 26 08:05:00 jroman: that looks familiar, let me look through the logs Aug 26 08:05:33 man Aug 26 08:05:45 what i'd like to see would be openmoko build kits Aug 26 08:05:59 jroman: what platform are you on? Aug 26 08:06:10 fedora core 5 Aug 26 08:06:11 "i want a mok owith a 5" screen, no wireless but bluetooth and gps" Aug 26 08:06:18 that'd be great Aug 26 08:06:26 one could build custom appliances with that Aug 26 08:06:31 and resell them Aug 26 08:07:15 i ordered a dev moko because i wanted to make a taxi cab app for a local cab company Aug 26 08:07:18 turns out Aug 26 08:07:24 the screen of the moko is too small Aug 26 08:07:42 which really sucks Aug 26 08:07:50 because everything else would be just right for that use case Aug 26 08:10:05 philip_: get an iphone and hack it Aug 26 08:10:18 except no gps Aug 26 08:10:21 I forgot Aug 26 08:10:37 philip: what about one of the nokia internet tablets + bluetooth gps? Aug 26 08:10:40 i do not want to give a ccompany money which does everything in their power to restrict me Aug 26 08:10:52 jroman: I had a similar problem when I built a different app on my openSuSE box Aug 26 08:11:11 cibomahto: yeah, external gps ... closed dev process ... Aug 26 08:11:16 more expensive Aug 26 08:11:36 would've rocked if i could have used the moko for that Aug 26 08:11:54 but i still think, that this could be a business opportunity for FIC anyway Aug 26 08:12:08 jroman: I tracked it to the configure.ac, which was looking for a path in / and using it instead of the provided path Aug 26 08:12:11 to sell build kits, which let you choose the hw configuration Aug 26 08:12:14 philip_ its not that openmoko does not want to do such business afaik. its about getting things done in the right order which they need to be to have a solid hard and software basis for diversification Aug 26 08:12:27 jroman: I don't know if its the same, but its all I can think of Aug 26 08:12:33 roh: ah, great to hear Aug 26 08:12:58 sure, getting the thing to work in the first place would be awesome :) Aug 26 08:13:07 and i want umts. hehe. Aug 26 08:13:09 gcb77: I'm going to try it, thanks a lot Aug 26 08:14:03 philip_ see the neo1973 just as the first in a line of devices. not as phone. phonecalls are just one way to use the hardware. the community and the developers who see a free platform as their home decide what it can and will do. Aug 26 08:15:00 roh: great to hear :) Aug 26 08:16:49 hi, while playing mp3, madplay uses 23% of cpu, but gst use 90%, why? Aug 26 08:17:16 philip_ so if you have time with your project... get a device and start playing around with it. or start with the emulator and add a serial or bluetooth nmea gps to the serial and configure qemu accordingly. then you can even develop without any hardware right away Aug 26 08:18:17 Richard gst is not optimized for non-hardfloat platforms yet afaik Aug 26 08:19:39 roh: but gst use libmad to decode mp3, no reason to use all cpu cycles. Aug 26 08:20:09 roh, on my phone, the music is not fluent. Aug 26 08:20:54 Richard: Aug 26 08:23:14 anyone have any clues : Patch fic-gta01-font-size.patch does not apply, ERROR: Task 241 (/media/workspace/openmoko/openembedded/packages/matchbox-keyboard/matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod_svn.bb, do_patch) failed Aug 26 08:24:02 has anyone started localizing Aug 26 08:24:16 Richard if it uses libmad there should be no problem.. i dunno about other parts of the pipeline which could be using floats. i'm no expert in gst. Aug 26 08:24:54 i'm trying to figure out how to switch locales Aug 26 08:26:08 dietsunkist thats propably not yet a good idea. translations of the wiki yes.. but first the apps need to work and the userinterface be complete so the translation makes sense in the end. puzzling words will just result in 'industry style' translations i fear Aug 26 08:27:47 dietsunkist be shure everything will be internationalized. in the end we also have people with experience in chinese input methods on the team ;) Aug 26 08:29:56 when the infrastructure is in place we should eventually add another mailinglist where people can send patches and discuss the different aspects of translations. Aug 26 08:46:29 any suggestions on how I can trim down a dev VM built with the MokoMakefile? Aug 26 08:46:54 * * OM Bug 752 has been created by hads(AT)nice.net.nz Aug 26 08:46:55 * * Add pySerial package and dependancies Aug 26 08:46:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=752 Aug 26 08:47:07 i don't agree Aug 26 08:47:18 moin Aug 26 08:47:37 Right now it compresses to 2.5 gb, which is .5 gb more than what my webserver will work with :( Aug 26 08:47:52 the apps do work, some may need more work but they're usable. Aug 26 08:48:00 oh, 31-bit fs limitation? Aug 26 08:48:15 cjb_ie: no, its an apache bug Aug 26 08:48:27 huh. what version of apache? Aug 26 08:48:34 enough for translation to start Aug 26 08:48:50 cjb_ie: dunno, its dreamhost Aug 26 08:48:51 look at ubuntu Aug 26 08:49:16 i know an apache developer who used to work for one of the biggest sourceforge mirrors - trust me, apache is well able to handle e.g. DVD isos Aug 26 08:50:45 cjb_ie: http://forum.dreamhosters.com/troubleshooting/73674-File-2GB-is-not-showing-up-for-download.htm Aug 26 08:50:49 i dunno anything about dreamhost though. Aug 26 08:51:34 gcb77: could you split it into multiple files? Aug 26 08:51:55 Yeah, but it gets uglier that way Aug 26 08:52:00 sure Aug 26 08:52:15 gcb77: i'd be inclined to concur with "dreamhost should get their act together" Aug 26 08:52:39 cjb_ie: I agree, but they're awesome compared with what I had before Aug 26 08:55:05 In the mean time, I wonder what would happen if I remove OE.mtn and OE.mtn.bz2 Aug 26 09:04:22 hi Aug 26 09:04:47 so, I was just thinking, it'd be really nice if there could be an xscreensaver + keyboard combo which allowed you to unlock the phone using a password Aug 26 09:18:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Burt/Keepers]] Aug 26 09:18:26 Greetings from FrOSCon! Aug 26 09:19:54 I ended up removing the files in the sources/ folder Aug 26 09:20:39 Had to make the vmdisk bigger, 20GB too Aug 26 09:21:23 even with rm_work... it uses over 15GB while building, and then removes files Aug 26 09:22:53 gcb77: really, even if you use rm_work from the start of the build? Aug 26 09:23:13 it should rm_work each package as it is built Aug 26 09:24:12 I don't know if it does, but it always failed while building glibc Aug 26 09:24:29 I assumed it was just a really big package Aug 26 09:25:40 * rwhitby needs a "rebuild-all-svnnow-packages-that-are-affected-by-the-crossing-midnight-bug target in the makefile. Aug 26 09:26:13 RP: any way we can fix the crossing midnight problem? or do we just have to wait for srcrev? Aug 26 09:29:46 rwhitby: if it fails, delete sources and stamps and call make again. Aug 26 09:30:29 I'd prefer to only do those that fail, not a complete rebuild. and you should never need to remove sources. Aug 26 09:42:40 rwhitby: I meant to only delete the failing sources. Aug 26 09:43:05 the crossing-midnight bug has nothing to do with sources Aug 26 09:43:27 rwhitby: Deleting the sources actually helps as a workaround. stuff get's packaged as 20070825 and build does try to install from the 20070826 dir, which is empty. Aug 26 09:43:36 that is the crossing-midnight problem I saw. Aug 26 09:43:41 which one are you referring to? Aug 26 09:44:01 I think you're talking about deleting work directories, not sources. Aug 26 09:44:31 (I refer to "sources" as the downloaded tarballs) Aug 26 09:45:22 nope, I am referring to deleting sources as in packaged svn checkouts, resulting in bitbake pulling new ones with the correct date of "today" thus working around the problem that bitbake is doing the do_ macros in the wrong dir. Aug 26 09:46:09 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r151 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Updated the force-rebuild target to force the rebuild all +svn versioned packages. This is a good remedy for the crossing-midnight bitbake problem. Aug 26 09:57:00 anyone have any clues : Patch fic-gta01-font-size.patch does not apply, ERROR: Task 241 (/media/workspace/openmoko/openembedded/packages/matchbox-keyboard/matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod_svn.bb, do_patch) failed Aug 26 09:58:54 * * OM Bug 754 has been created by yoyo(AT)ghost.pl Aug 26 09:58:55 * * uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb Aug 26 09:58:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=754 Aug 26 09:59:03 * * OM Bug 753 has been created by yoyo(AT)ghost.pl Aug 26 09:59:05 * * uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb Aug 26 09:59:07 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=753 Aug 26 10:10:06 apt: what are you? Aug 26 10:10:12 apt? Aug 26 10:10:16 * apt are you to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion Aug 26 10:10:30 hmmm, what kindoff bot is he? Aug 26 10:11:06 have to register to ctcp version him :/ Aug 26 10:13:58 -apt- VERSION blootbot 1.3.3 -- linux Aug 26 10:14:32 tonyg, k, thanks Aug 26 10:23:21 jcb77: I've added in moko/build/conf/local.conf this line ASSUME_PROVIDED += "quilt-native", and the build system is going ahead. My fedora has quilt installed, I don't know if this is a correct workaround Aug 26 10:25:16 I cannot fix the make install error in quilt package :-( Aug 26 11:07:25 hiya Aug 26 11:10:41 whats new folks? i'm just sitting down for an afternoon of hacking together a bit of a moko-only app .. Aug 26 11:10:52 What is it? Aug 26 11:11:03 A tombstoning tutorial? Aug 26 11:11:44 tombstoning? Aug 26 11:12:09 Leaping off high objects into the water. Frequently with bad results. Aug 26 11:12:10 as in components flipping up on end in reflow when the solder paste isn't fresh? Aug 26 11:12:40 just about to slip into a little hot cairo/rsvg love actually Aug 26 11:12:51 nice :) Aug 26 11:13:04 btw. Aug 26 11:13:05 x11vnc rocks Aug 26 11:13:37 For what? Aug 26 11:13:41 exports your current OpenMoko session via vnc. no need to start an additional X server. Aug 26 11:13:50 great for showing off the Neo via Laptop/Projector Aug 26 11:14:10 Ah. Aug 26 11:15:21 mickeyl: you like it? great. *g* Aug 26 11:16:03 * Kero is back from the USA; *finally* time to work on my Neo :) Aug 26 11:16:09 what happened in the last two weeks? Aug 26 11:16:19 Relatively little. Aug 26 11:16:23 2007.2 was released Aug 26 11:16:46 And many people have found it rather unstable (to be expected of course) Aug 26 11:17:19 ixs: are you involved with that? Aug 26 11:17:35 "unstable" as in funny whitescreens? or just regular crashes. Aug 26 11:18:17 mickeyl: nope, I just pointed it out yesterday to someone who was asking how to show openmoko screens during a presentation. I thought you referred to that one. Aug 26 11:19:20 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_GSM]] [[User:Burt/Keepers]] Aug 26 11:22:13 Kero: unstable as in things don't work as they should .. Aug 26 11:22:32 like, its possible to crash the main interface app by opening up a few other apps and then killing them. Aug 26 11:24:10 ok. that's fixable. I've seen no cause or solution to he whitescreens, tho. Aug 26 11:24:29 but then, I just switched ML delivery on, again. Aug 26 11:25:09 is the gta01 kernel in OE currently broken? Aug 26 11:25:50 #639 Aug 26 11:26:09 is there a 'nice' program to make a phonecall, yet? Aug 26 11:26:17 Kero: dialer works Aug 26 11:26:21 did GPS sw get included? Aug 26 11:26:23 if gsmd's working :) Aug 26 11:26:41 Kero: no Aug 26 11:26:51 'real soon now' still. Aug 26 11:27:04 ok, I'll be patient Aug 26 11:27:22 ScaredyCat, if you meant me: thanks, but it's 746 :) Aug 26 11:27:22 I get the impression that all the effort is going into 2007.2 and GTA02 Aug 26 11:27:25 are you telling me that cu isn't nice ? Aug 26 11:27:26 jadams: and is it hard to get gsmd working? :) Aug 26 11:27:46 Kero, manually it's no problem at all (imho) Aug 26 11:27:56 All the core team effort. Aug 26 11:28:14 Kero, stop and start gsmd in the matchbox-session... apparently that improves it Aug 26 11:28:41 I get the freling that they're ready to dump the 01 already SpeedEvil... Aug 26 11:28:46 feeling Aug 26 11:29:29 who can i set up other gcc version with mokomakefile? Aug 26 11:29:37 Kero: it might even just be a case of moving the start of gsmd to later in the bot process Aug 26 11:29:51 thomasg__: basically getting gsmd working is a problem on some phones right now as the low level modem communication is hosed. Aug 26 11:29:54 #256 Aug 26 11:29:56 guys Aug 26 11:30:02 ipkg update && ipkg install midori Aug 26 11:30:15 works Aug 26 11:30:25 * ScaredyCat slaps mickeyl Aug 26 11:30:48 mickeyl: midori as in midori linux? Aug 26 11:30:49 midori gets *wonderful* results in google :) Aug 26 11:31:03 midori as in the browser ixs Aug 26 11:31:14 thx. Aug 26 11:32:07 mmm .. midori collins .. Aug 26 11:32:14 mhm... Aug 26 11:32:24 it depends on libSexy... Ahhh, my kind of software. :-) Aug 26 11:32:36 midori is awesome btw Aug 26 11:32:37 muahaha Aug 26 11:32:39 Doing naughty things to good widgets Aug 26 11:32:39 libsexy is a collection of GTK+ widgets that extend the functionality of such standard widgets as GtkEntry and GtkLabel by subclassing them and working around the limitations of the widgets. Aug 26 11:33:15 screenshots? Aug 26 11:33:25 scap.linux... Aug 26 11:33:30 http://software.twotoasts.de/media/midori/screen1.png Aug 26 11:34:09 http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=2 Aug 26 11:34:10 ok Aug 26 11:34:13 rockin' .. Aug 26 11:34:16 gonna get me some then Aug 26 11:35:10 ixs: towo says I should slap you, you deserved it. Aug 26 11:36:15 TobiX: hahaha. tell him to come to mrmcd, we can battle it out there. :) Aug 26 11:36:41 TobiX: besides, did he tell you _why_ I deserved it? I'm pretty sure I'm innocent. *g* Aug 26 11:41:24 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r152 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Improve the force-rebuild target - due to the crossing-midnight problem, the stamps might have a different date from the work directory, so find and delete them separately. Aug 26 11:41:51 ixs: No, he didn't, but he ran away after telling me I should tell you... Aug 26 11:42:02 TobiX: good for him. :) Aug 26 11:42:17 TobiX: say, do you fancy a bit of seek and slap? ;D Aug 26 11:42:41 * rwhitby tries gsmd start and stop in matchbox session, in the continuing quest for a gsm icon that doesn't have a question mark on it ... Aug 26 11:43:19 mickeyl: can someone email out a set of debugging step so you guys can gather enough information to fix the gsmd problem? Aug 26 11:43:38 ixs: http://www.eventphone.de/guru/phonebookquery.php?event=FrOSCon+2007&s=towo ;) Aug 26 11:43:56 (i.e. turn on such-and-such a debugging flag, and send us this log file if gsmd doesn't work) Aug 26 11:44:01 TobiX: mhm. Good idea, I should ask sasche if her got the dect triangulation to work now. :D Aug 26 11:44:38 ixs: http://wiki.froscon.de/wiki/Main_Page has the call-in-number Aug 26 11:45:00 Mhm, And which number do I have to dial for a remote-lart? Aug 26 11:45:53 8666? Aug 26 11:46:30 thanks but no sex, we spent about an hour listening to it during the camp... it's getting b00000ring. :D Aug 26 11:47:50 rwhitby: *nod* I'll try to force someone to do that Aug 26 11:48:09 mickeyl: thx. Aug 26 11:48:26 What's up with gsmd? Aug 26 11:48:30 I expect many people want to help fix it, but don't know where to start. Aug 26 11:48:43 Elrond: not gsmd, more like what's up with /dev/ttySAC0 Aug 26 11:49:03 ixs - Oh no? Not again serial line issues i nthe kernel? Aug 26 11:49:34 Elrond: seems like it. #256 again reopened. Aug 26 11:49:43 *checking bug* Aug 26 11:50:03 hi Aug 26 11:50:25 At least a nice bug# ;o) Aug 26 11:50:40 mickey|offline: you around? Aug 26 11:50:41 Elrond: ack. I did a double take first, then had a nice chuckle... Aug 26 11:51:08 mickeyl: It'd also be really good if someone turned off the pcf50606_work SECOND ADCRDY stuff that gets printed every 10 seconds, so you can actually see real problems in /var/log/messages ... Aug 26 11:51:50 You guys really break everything, right? ;o) Aug 26 11:52:02 that's our job Aug 26 11:52:33 I'll keep my install on the neo for another month. :) Aug 26 11:56:12 mickeyl - I looked a bit on running eabi and oabi in paralell. This would work in theory, as they use different names for /lib/ld-linux.so.* (* = 2 for oabi, * = 3 for eabi). ld-linux.so. just would need a high priority dedicated search path, which it searches before the normal ones. So that the oabi one can find the oabi libraries in /usr/arm-mumble-oabi/lib and not use the eabi ones in /lib or /usr/lib. Aug 26 11:57:42 Elrond: how about using -rpath when linking? Aug 26 11:58:04 curiosn Aug 26 11:58:17 whats the difference between eabi and oabi? Aug 26 11:58:52 any way to contact mickey|offline other than irc? Aug 26 11:59:08 Elrond: the trivial solution would be a chroot Aug 26 11:59:10 dcordes_ - mail? Aug 26 11:59:10 rabble: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort Aug 26 11:59:29 s/rabble/raster/ Aug 26 11:59:30 rwhitby meant: raster: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort Aug 26 11:59:31 SpeedEvil - Which needs space, which we don't have. Aug 26 12:00:03 rwhitby - We have one oabi binary, which we can't relink. ;o) Aug 26 12:00:21 Elrond: nod Aug 26 12:00:44 I wonder if there is any way to edit the binary to use a different rpath ... Aug 26 12:01:02 rwhitby: thats ok- i'm not much better than rabble :) Aug 26 12:01:17 (the thing - not the person) Aug 26 12:02:14 ooh i see Aug 26 12:02:29 this is new Aug 26 12:02:36 rwhitby - In theory ELF is editable. ;) Aug 26 12:03:52 rwhitby - http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/elfsh comes to mind. Aug 26 12:03:59 makes sense Aug 26 12:04:04 gimme eabi any day Aug 26 12:04:05 :) Aug 26 12:04:27 raster - The OM2007.2 builds are eabi. Aug 26 12:04:43 Elrond: the open2x linux guys have this problem nailed already, and the chroot isn't that big to be honest. Aug 26 12:04:53 Elrond: hmmm that assumes they build without error Aug 26 12:04:55 :) Aug 26 12:05:09 raster - ;o) Aug 26 12:05:20 torpor - Any URL? Aug 26 12:05:29 i've given up for now Aug 26 12:05:34 better things to do Aug 26 12:05:40 like make a psplash replacement Aug 26 12:05:42 ABI issues are best sorted by getting the port toolkit under control, imho, and building the hell out of everything that you could possibly want on either ABI's .. Aug 26 12:05:50 open2x.org Aug 26 12:05:51 just writing up some docs on it Aug 26 12:05:57 as i finished the code last night Aug 26 12:06:03 and made a sample theme today Aug 26 12:06:10 raster - Right. Seeing, that the serial line has issues (which is the core thing *I* need), I can't upgrade anyway. Aug 26 12:06:24 Elrond: still on .1? Aug 26 12:06:52 ixs - Yes, of course. Aug 26 12:07:06 ixs - I need a working and stable kernel *with* serial line. Aug 26 12:07:12 Elrond: did you get the speaker to work during voice calls? Aug 26 12:07:28 Elrond: fair enough :) Aug 26 12:07:29 ixs - I never did a call with my neo. ;o) Aug 26 12:07:32 with .1 I get a working serial line, but the speaker's do not do anything for the love of god. Aug 26 12:07:40 Elrond: tsktsktsk. Aug 26 12:08:00 my speakers stopped working .. or something. Aug 26 12:08:29 ixs - SpeedEvil put it nicely: "It's a pentium 100 desktop, that noone has told it, that it's a phone". I haven't told mine, that it is a phone. ;o) Aug 26 12:08:59 Elrond: yeah. Like I said, it's a great embedded linux device, but the phone is crap. Aug 26 12:09:10 Right. Aug 26 12:09:20 and I just want the phone. :) Aug 26 12:09:25 And it's a cool low level gps lab. Aug 26 12:09:39 can someone do this and tell me the result: find /sys/devices -name "*sound*" | wc Aug 26 12:09:55 Elrond: voice, sms, gprs, openvpn, gps. in that order. Aug 26 12:10:44 ixs - hehe. :) Aug 26 12:10:53 <-- heads for food. :) Aug 26 12:11:04 <-- doesn't eat heads. Aug 26 12:11:54 Elrond: good idea, I think I'm gonna hunt myself some kind of dönertier... Aug 26 12:11:54 * mickeyl starts to prepare for the OpenMoko talk Aug 26 12:11:57 l8er Aug 26 12:12:09 talk? Aug 26 12:12:11 where+ Aug 26 12:12:14 fr0scon Aug 26 12:12:41 seems like a lot of talking and .... Aug 26 12:13:10 http://www.zeec.de/froscon1.html Aug 26 12:13:43 mmm... Aug 26 12:13:45 * ScaredyCat spies updates to gimp... Aug 26 12:14:39 you think we can try that n the neo? Aug 26 12:24:59 of course Aug 26 12:25:44 find /sys/devices -name "*sound*" Aug 26 12:25:50 only one Aug 26 12:31:36 just when you think you have seen every phone ever made something turns up to makes you go WTF is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HV6-yBjRZw Aug 26 12:34:58 rwhitby: srcrev is the best solution to the midnight problem Aug 26 12:35:35 ok Aug 26 12:35:36 rwhitby: It doesn't solve it for CVS but to solve that we're still going to need new bitbake features like the persistent data store Aug 26 12:35:40 found some better pics http://justamp.blogspot.com/2007/05/mio-a701-gps-pda-gets-cloned.html Aug 26 12:38:58 good morning Aug 26 12:39:01 Linux_Galore: But will it... Aug 26 12:39:32 my openmoko-devel-images just completed, and I have seven divverent uBoot images Aug 26 12:39:47 DukeOfURL: that is normal. Aug 26 12:39:53 which one (if any) should I flash to the device? Aug 26 12:40:05 SpeedEvil: just checked and its a clone of Mio A701 with a TV tuner thrown in Aug 26 12:40:07 DukeOfURL: probably gta01bv4 is the right one for you if you ordered from direct. Aug 26 12:40:19 DukeOfURL: otherwise, do not flash any uboot images, if you do not have a debug board. Aug 26 12:40:43 DukeOfURL: or even ebtter, take the last advice as general advice Aug 26 12:40:52 ok Aug 26 12:42:13 hey guys - need a bit of advice Aug 26 12:42:33 I lent my neo to my brother, who took it on holiday - it's come back empty of charge Aug 26 12:42:44 eat the red pill Aug 26 12:43:27 how can I recharge the neo battery I've got a nokie BL-5C charging next door if I need it - but can I bring the neo battery back to life? Aug 26 12:43:43 yes Aug 26 12:43:44 See Neo1973 Charging on the wiki Aug 26 12:43:52 plug it in, don;t power it up Aug 26 12:44:34 sorry if it was on the wiki - just checking now. I thought I'd read it Aug 26 12:47:12 is the wiki still working - Main_Page is blank for me Aug 26 12:47:16 was working two minutes ago Aug 26 12:47:40 back working now... weird Aug 26 12:50:00 (script) planet: Rod Whitby: Debugging gsmd failures on OpenMoko http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/openmoko/debugging-gsmd-failures-on-openmoko.html Aug 26 12:51:11 http://pastebin.ca/671171 <- can anyone see why +CREG is not being recognised as a response to +COPS ? Aug 26 12:51:43 thanks for the heads-up on that Aug 26 12:52:18 DukeOfURL: look under the battery - there should be a sticker saying what model you have. Make sure it matches exactly if you decide to flash uboot. Aug 26 12:53:47 hello Aug 26 12:55:02 I'm trying to write a program that should link to libipkg. How do I do that? Aug 26 12:55:51 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-August/000205.html <- any answers welcomed Aug 26 12:58:45 rwhitby: about your blog entry, shouldn't /tmp/gsmd.log contain the needed info? Aug 26 12:59:14 ixs: no such file on my neo Aug 26 12:59:42 rwhitby: thanks. the flash appears to be successful. what is the status of the GSM bits Aug 26 12:59:58 DukeOfURL: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-August/000205.html is my status Aug 26 13:00:22 ixs: what's turning on /tmp/gsmd.log on your neo? Aug 26 13:00:25 rwhitby: ohh. interesting. mine loggs to /tmp/. you#re running the latest snapshot I guess? Aug 26 13:00:40 rwhitby: can't check, I do not have the moko with me and am on the road Aug 26 13:00:58 ixs: this is 2007.08 snapshot, ipkg updated yesterday from snapshots and updates feeds. Aug 26 13:03:29 rwhitby: interesting. I'll be back tomorrow and have a look at the initscritps then. Aug 26 13:05:09 ixs: ah, you mean /tmp/gsm.log, which has stdout and stderr from gsmd. Aug 26 13:06:08 rwhitby: ahh. right. Aug 26 13:06:28 that should give a bit of insight into gsmd, shouldn't it? Aug 26 13:07:12 is there anywhere we can view the presentations that Sean et al. give about openmoko? other than youtube anyway? Aug 26 13:07:29 stuff probably goes to syslog, and you might be able to see it if you set the syslog level differently, but there is so much other stuff being logged (e.g. power management ACRDY stuff every 10 seconds) that it's much more convenient to log to a separate file. And yes I know I could do that with syslogd, but I'm too lazy to work out the syntax for that when gsmd has a nice -l option :-) Aug 26 13:07:58 :) Aug 26 13:08:45 ixs: how embarrassing, yes it's all in /tmp/gsm.log Aug 26 13:09:49 * rwhitby quickly changes the blog entry to be not so embarrassing ... Aug 26 13:09:56 hehe. :-) Aug 26 13:10:01 PrtScr to the rescue. Aug 26 13:10:22 did any ever get round to using a 4gb sd Aug 26 13:12:14 did anyone managed to install programs on the sd card? Aug 26 13:14:16 simlink it Aug 26 13:14:19 Ghiottone, shure... what's the problem with that? Aug 26 13:14:23 symlink Aug 26 13:15:10 mickey's speech beginning http://www.zeec.de/froscon1.html Aug 26 13:15:50 Ghiottone, i reformatted mine to be ext2, vfat may be a problem... Aug 26 13:16:13 dcordes_: I wish I could speak german... Aug 26 13:17:23 what a sec what phne is that up on the pres screen? Aug 26 13:17:45 Bryce_Leo: what screen? Aug 26 13:18:03 if you were checkign out the froscon feed like 35 seconds ago Aug 26 13:18:31 and it's on again Aug 26 13:19:07 yeah... not a neo! Aug 26 13:19:10 yeah Aug 26 13:19:21 * rwhitby realises the CREG: 2 is GSMD_NETREG_UNREG_BUSY Aug 26 13:19:24 i know no german, but that looks like an ericson Aug 26 13:19:45 mdt, yeah that was what I was thinking to do. but then, how do you install programs on the card? Aug 26 13:19:49 it's the part of his presentation where he's saying "why can't my current phone do these things" Aug 26 13:20:01 thanks rwhitby Aug 26 13:20:13 now it makes sense Aug 26 13:20:20 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/cs]] Aug 26 13:20:52 Ghiottone, scp? Aug 26 13:21:48 I was thinking more about ipkg Aug 26 13:21:48 I mean, how to install existing packages on the media card Aug 26 13:22:25 use symlinks Aug 26 13:22:44 ooops 2 mins battery power on lappy... Aug 26 13:23:03 Ghiottone, or tell configure to install somewhere else. Aug 26 13:23:16 ScaredyCat2: he compared neo with other phones to show off downsides like no .ogg playback and such Aug 26 13:24:10 rwhitby: could you try to see if your serial line is okay? or if it's just the gsmd having problems? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Aug 26 13:24:55 ixs: it looks like gsmd is not responding to a GSMD_NETREG_UNREG_BUSY unsolicited response, and that is confusing it to the point where it can't continue. Aug 26 13:25:11 I'm deep in unsolicited.c now, looking into it. Aug 26 13:25:12 mdt, mmm yeah they need to be reconfigured :( Aug 26 13:25:20 dcordes_: I just caught what I thought was a good idea, detecting other people's phones (bt) and switching mode Aug 26 13:25:45 rwhitby: yeah, saw your mail. I was just wondering if the serial line is working. I've seen similar problem as you (COPS send repeatedly) but it turns out, the serial line wasn't even working... Aug 26 13:25:47 Ghiottone, i would like the idea to symlink /usr/bin, /usr/share, ... Aug 26 13:26:02 ixs: I can get it to register manually Aug 26 13:26:05 Ghiottone, you may link /usr/local and build your package for thaht Aug 26 13:26:13 mdt, good idea Aug 26 13:26:28 Ghiottone, or you mount your sd there anyway ;) Aug 26 13:26:32 Ghiottone: ipkg has support for installing on different paths. Aug 26 13:26:42 rwhitby: okay, in that case, your problem is different then mine and only limited to gpsd Aug 26 13:26:46 yes I saw Aug 26 13:27:08 but reconfiguration problem is still there Aug 26 13:27:22 Ghiottone: ipkg-link Aug 26 13:27:30 what's that ? Aug 26 13:27:32 so I got hold of a gllin phase0 binary, but now it does not seem to work ... when I do gllin -low 5 (as described on GPS_scripts), I get a 'gllin: early exit(3) in halInit()/681' ... - anyone seen this before? Aug 26 13:28:33 Ghiottone: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/ipkg-utils/ipkg-link_1.6+cvs20050404.bb Aug 26 13:28:38 ipkg-link - first few google results seem to be problems Aug 26 13:29:06 ScaredyCat2: most stuff on the internet is problems. people don't usually post when things work ... Aug 26 13:29:25 * rwhitby has never used ipkg-link, so cannot comment on whether it has problems or not. Aug 26 13:29:29 there are problems and challenges Aug 26 13:29:43 rwhitby: great point. Users at businesses and universties never think "man these computers work great, i think those IT folks are doing great!" Aug 26 13:29:54 that pretty much applies accross the board Aug 26 13:30:14 moin Aug 26 13:30:45 wow Aug 26 13:31:02 * rwhitby wonders if mickey is holding a GTA02 Aug 26 13:31:05 alech, please don't distribute leaked versions of gllin Aug 26 13:31:18 rwhitby: in the presentation? Aug 26 13:31:19 it wont work in the current images anyway Aug 26 13:31:28 ScaredyCat2: yeah Aug 26 13:31:32 rwhitby: nope. gta01 Aug 26 13:31:34 bugger ... Aug 26 13:31:42 ixs: how do you tell? Aug 26 13:31:43 * ScaredyCat2 tries to find link agian Aug 26 13:31:57 rwhitby: he said something about having a gta01 earlier Aug 26 13:32:39 ok. the feed to australia is so choppy I'm missing half of it, even if I did speak german. Aug 26 13:32:50 rwhitby: mhm,. video is choppy. but sound is okay. Aug 26 13:33:03 ScaredyCat2: http://www.zeec.de/froscon1.html Aug 26 13:33:07 that the link you're looing for? Aug 26 13:33:21 ta Aug 26 13:33:48 it's in foreign though ;) Aug 26 13:33:53 lol yes it is Aug 26 13:33:58 i want that phone up there though Aug 26 13:34:26 yeah.. not very practical Aug 26 13:34:37 lol sometimes cool is way way better than practical Aug 26 13:34:39 2 hands to hold it, how do you dial? Aug 26 13:34:47 with your left thumb Aug 26 13:35:17 .. I guess by the time it's produced the human race will have evolved into having 3 hands Aug 26 13:35:31 pshh or tentacles Aug 26 13:35:32 It's a polymer-vision screen. I believe it's mean to roll in and out like a scroll. Aug 26 13:36:03 http://www.polymervision.com/ProductsApplications/Vision/Index.html Aug 26 13:36:25 yes, but you'd need to hold it Aug 26 13:36:26 sweet deal, nice find sagacis Aug 26 13:37:03 ie one hand for the main part, the other for the right side Aug 26 13:37:20 day of the tentacle Aug 26 13:37:26 lol Aug 26 13:37:31 Bryce_Leo: It was on the slide in english ;-) Aug 26 13:37:49 hahahahah sagacis i didn't even notice!! i just assumed it was german Aug 26 13:37:56 cool Aug 26 13:37:58 werd Aug 26 13:38:04 my screenshot gets shown! Aug 26 13:38:06 let ther be splashiness Aug 26 13:38:24 * Bryce_Leo splashys splashys Aug 26 13:40:33 hrhrhr. Aug 26 13:40:38 a little snide against rasterman. Aug 26 13:40:59 the guy had more eyecande then a human can stand, already in the 90s. Aug 26 13:41:03 (enlightenment) Aug 26 13:41:33 ixs: huh? Aug 26 13:41:45 snide? Aug 26 13:42:24 yeah, but a friendly one. Aug 26 13:42:34 whats wrong with eyecandy? Aug 26 13:42:44 apple do quite nicely selling it Aug 26 13:42:50 thos ewho dont like it Aug 26 13:42:54 too bad Aug 26 13:42:57 * rwhitby realises that his gsm registration problem might be at a higher level than gsmd and libgsmd-tool ... Aug 26 13:42:58 they are the minority Aug 26 13:43:02 they are generally nerds Aug 26 13:43:04 raster: yeah, I know. He meant it in a funny way. Aug 26 13:43:20 the majority of peolpe on the planet do care how things that are personal to them look Aug 26 13:43:21 geekfight! Aug 26 13:43:21 :) Aug 26 13:43:24 rwhitby: Are you having registration problems on boot, or later? Aug 26 13:43:29 i was just splashys splashys because it sounded funny..... Aug 26 13:43:35 and i'm all about making that possible Aug 26 13:43:36 :) Aug 26 13:43:48 * rwhitby makes sure raster never finds out that his main interface to the Linux UI is Emacs in a console ssh session ... Aug 26 13:43:57 rwhitby: dont worry Aug 26 13:44:03 my screen is just filled with xterms Aug 26 13:44:15 most of the time Aug 26 13:44:27 raster: it was like: then that black phone came out with all the eyecandy and we decided we want that as well. thus we're using/looking at enlightenment libs (or somewhat, sound stopped there for a sec). Enlightenment is a window manager from Rasterman which is available for quite some time now. It already offered more eyecandy than humans can stand back in the 90s. Aug 26 13:44:34 yeah, but yours probably have nice window decorations and transparency and stuff :-) Aug 26 13:44:55 hahahahah Aug 26 13:45:05 rwhitby: just decoratiopns Aug 26 13:45:07 no transparency Aug 26 13:45:08 :) Aug 26 13:45:11 blak bg's Aug 26 13:45:13 black Aug 26 13:45:14 raster: eterms? Aug 26 13:45:17 nuop Aug 26 13:45:20 xterms Aug 26 13:45:23 k Aug 26 13:45:26 i wanted utf8 support Aug 26 13:45:30 I run gnome-terminal Aug 26 13:45:36 too bggy for me Aug 26 13:45:39 buggy Aug 26 13:45:42 85% of my time on a computer is spent in a term Aug 26 13:45:44 i run dozens of terminals at a time Aug 26 13:45:44 sagacis: I've never been able to get a gsm icon with anything other than a question mark. I can restart gsmd and register via libgsmd-tool fine. Aug 26 13:45:45 when it crashes Aug 26 13:45:46 all go Aug 26 13:45:49 way too bad Aug 26 13:45:49 buggy how? It's just faster than an xterm for me Aug 26 13:45:53 ahh Aug 26 13:45:53 also much slower to start Aug 26 13:45:58 I've never had it crash on me Aug 26 13:46:02 i have Aug 26 13:46:04 k Aug 26 13:46:05 plenty of times Aug 26 13:46:08 * rwhitby runs many shells inside one emacs session Aug 26 13:46:11 i can handle a crash Aug 26 13:46:16 but when it happens about once a day Aug 26 13:46:21 and brings down every term i have Aug 26 13:46:25 I typically just run eight or ten terms in one gnome terminal fullscreen on my first desktop Aug 26 13:46:28 with state, command,s history, editors, src, etc. Aug 26 13:46:31 i get really miffed Aug 26 13:46:35 hehe.. I powered my neo on the other day... it registered and gave me 3 bars Aug 26 13:46:38 I'm not doing enough with my terms, clearly :) Aug 26 13:46:45 I was like, "WTF!" Aug 26 13:47:00 mickey|offline: just a note for the next time: repeat questions from the audience. ;) Guessing the question from the answer is a bit difficult sometimes. Aug 26 13:47:57 sagacis: I'm now thinking that whatever higher-level app does registration is not reconising the UNREG_BUSY response, and continuing to try and register rather than just waiting for the successful response which follows when I do it manually. Aug 26 13:48:23 anyone know what does the registration at the higher-level? Aug 26 13:48:55 is it the dialer, or the gsm icon, or something else? Aug 26 13:49:26 rwhitby: mhm. kill everything and just use one tool at a time. strace it. Aug 26 13:49:35 join #ubuntu+1 Aug 26 13:49:52 Aug 26 13:49:53 ixs: it all works manually - the problem is getting it to work automatically on boot Aug 26 13:50:19 rwhitby: yeah, but that way you might be able to see, which one fucks it up? Aug 26 13:50:33 Gah, qemu *still* wants gcc 3.x? Aug 26 13:50:59 ixs: if I knew what is driving gsmd at the application level, I can just look in the source code to see whether it handles the UNREG_BUSY response. Aug 26 13:51:26 rwhitby: it seems to be openmoko-dialer2, but I am not sure about that. Aug 26 13:51:29 rwhitby: strace could help a bit... Aug 26 13:51:41 Kensan: that just seems to send dbus messages somewhere. Aug 26 13:52:03 rwhitby: I think that it might be libgsmd, not sure though Aug 26 13:52:46 looks like it's libmokogsmd2 Aug 26 13:53:04 _moko_gsmd_connection_eventhandler Aug 26 13:54:12 and indeed it doesn't seem to handle UNREG_BUSY explicitly Aug 26 13:55:47 * rwhitby notes that it's mickey|offline that's gonna get a ~lart about this one ... Aug 26 13:58:16 rwhitby: do you have any logs from the application side? gsmd_connection_eventhandler seems to indicate unhandeled event types... Aug 26 13:58:43 rwhitby: http://www.rasterman.com/files/screen-normal.png Aug 26 13:58:51 thats a normal regular screen for me Aug 26 13:58:57 not... exciting Aug 26 14:03:37 raster - What font are you using there? And what editor? Aug 26 14:03:44 Elrond: editor is jed Aug 26 14:03:47 font is nexus Aug 26 14:05:21 raster: i've always liked montecarlo myself Aug 26 14:06:47 Kensan: the event type is handled. the netreg.state is not. Aug 26 14:06:58 GSMD_EVT_NETREG only explicitly handles two out of the six valid gsmd_netreg_state values. Aug 26 14:07:25 raster - Hmm, the nexus font looks fun. What a pity, that it's not available in larger. Aug 26 14:08:12 * rwhitby laments all the wasted screen real estate taken up by titlebars on raster Aug 26 14:08:41 you could fit a good extra 10 lines of text vertically. Aug 26 14:09:09 rwhitby: ic Aug 26 14:09:41 Kensan: too late for me to debug it tonight - will look at it tomorrow if I get some time. Aug 26 14:09:47 night all Aug 26 14:10:25 Bryce_Leo: i like nexus. i drew it about 10 years ago. i havent changed terminal font since. Aug 26 14:10:45 Elrond: as above. i drew it as a bdf bitmap font over 10 years ago. Aug 26 14:10:52 rwhitby: hahahaha Aug 26 14:11:18 rwhitby: no - maybe 5 on average Aug 26 14:11:21 10 in extremes Aug 26 14:11:22 raster - Well, imagine it at 3200x2400 on a 10" screen. ;o) Aug 26 14:11:23 didums Aug 26 14:11:33 Elrond: perfect! Aug 26 14:11:34 :) Aug 26 14:11:40 just what i want Aug 26 14:12:47 Well, then s/10"/0.5"/ ;o) Aug 26 14:13:46 hurrah, compiled hello world on the moko...but not using bitbake, etc. yet Aug 26 14:14:25 jadams - _on_ or _for_? Aug 26 14:14:54 for Aug 26 14:14:58 cross compiled and ran Aug 26 14:14:59 still Aug 26 14:15:22 first non-MokoMakefile cross-compiling I've ever done Aug 26 14:15:46 I just don't get to cross compile as much as I'd like, coding in Ruby all day :) Aug 26 14:17:11 raster: haha wow, if it works why change it Aug 26 14:17:18 ixs: x11vnc is working fine for displaying my neo Aug 26 14:17:29 bmidgley: great. Aug 26 14:17:34 too slow for scrolling so I'll have to show off the other stuff Aug 26 14:17:36 http://flamebot.com/cgi-bin/pyblosxom.cgi/x11vnc.html Aug 26 14:18:19 Bryce_Leo: bingo Aug 26 14:18:19 :) Aug 26 14:18:24 that was one nice speech Aug 26 14:19:03 Kensan: looks like the problem might be even further upstream. moko-gsmd-connection.c looks like it's just a messenger for a signal which goes elsewhere. Aug 26 14:19:37 ah, of course - I'm looking for the app which links against libmokogsmd2. Aug 26 14:23:09 rwhitby: find -type f | xargs ldd | grep libmokogsmd2 Aug 26 14:24:44 looks like the problem is register_network_cb in moko-dialer.c Aug 26 14:25:05 "We check whether we've been registered yet, otherwise keep poking gsmd" Aug 26 14:26:07 http://www.rasterman.com/files/exquisite-02.avi Aug 26 14:26:13 rwithby: so my wild guess was right after all? *haha* Aug 26 14:26:15 viable psplash replacement Aug 26 14:26:22 justa demo theme right now Aug 26 14:26:26 so it keeps sending +COPS=0 even though the modem said it was busy. Aug 26 14:26:46 http://www.rasterman.com/files/exquisite-01.png Aug 26 14:26:51 for somethng slightly better quality Aug 26 14:27:09 http://www.rasterman.com/files/exquisite-0.0.1.tar.gz Aug 26 14:27:12 for src and docs Aug 26 14:27:18 my job here is done Aug 26 14:27:19 :) Aug 26 14:27:19 Kensan: still need to work out whether the responsibility for waiting until the modem is no longer busy lies with libmokogsmd2 or the dialer application ... Aug 26 14:27:43 hello, what cat i do to change gcc version to compile qemu with mokomakefile? Aug 26 14:28:01 I have a gcc-3.4 installed out of path Aug 26 14:28:26 rwhitby: that should probably be handled by the application. it's *lib*gsmd after all... Aug 26 14:28:30 i need pass -cc=path_to_gcc-3.4 to qemu configure Aug 26 14:29:02 jroman: edit the bitbake receipe then? Aug 26 14:29:57 Kensan: yeah, I guess the application will need that information to display "searching, searching, ..." Aug 26 14:29:58 ixs: no i don't Aug 26 14:30:13 jroman: which host distro? Aug 26 14:30:38 jroman: do that then. Aug 26 14:30:55 ~mokohome/openembedded/packages and look there. Aug 26 14:31:28 ixs: my advice to jroman would be to install gcc-3.4 on his host distro Aug 26 14:31:31 rwhitby: FC5 Aug 26 14:31:58 so why can't you get gcc-3.4 or something to install on your path where the qemu configure script can find it? Aug 26 14:32:02 rwhitby: yes, that's what I am thinking. The application needs to signal that state to the user. Aug 26 14:32:19 ixs: you mean at moko/openembedded/packages/qemu/*bb files Aug 26 14:32:28 jroman: jupp Aug 26 14:32:38 jroman: uhh, when you have fedora. Aug 26 14:32:58 jroman: just yum install it. Aug 26 14:33:15 jroman: compat-gcc-34 Aug 26 14:33:46 Kensan: moko-dialer.c, line 430 - on NETREG_SEARCHING priv->registered is set to TRUE. Aug 26 14:33:50 bmidgley: is anybody working on getting (Free)NX running? Aug 26 14:33:51 rwhitby: Installing the host gcc is my suggestion as well, I just thought that he might be using one of these exceedingly cool distros such as gentoo. Aug 26 14:34:35 ixs: if he was, he would deserve not to be able to build anything reliably ... ;-) Aug 26 14:34:48 ixs: thx Aug 26 14:35:11 rwhitby: thx Aug 26 14:35:17 rwhitby: it seems that it's not fully implemented then. Aug 26 14:35:29 * rwhitby , having pointed out where he thinks the gsm registration bug is, goes to bed and dreams of someone else fixing it overnight ... Aug 26 14:35:42 rwhitby: you wish. :D Aug 26 14:36:06 nite rwhitby :) Aug 26 14:36:09 * mwester notes that he found it necessary to upgrade from Fedora Core 5 because of lack of updated rpms for that old release... Aug 26 14:36:35 rwhitby: did you file a bug? Aug 26 14:41:18 Kensan: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=755 Aug 26 14:41:39 rwhitby: great, if I find something else I will attach to that bug then. :) Aug 26 14:41:53 * * OM Bug 755 has been created by rod(AT)whitby.id.au Aug 26 14:41:54 * * Dialer assumes UNREG_BUSY will eventually register correctly Aug 26 14:41:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=755 Aug 26 14:42:13 * rwhitby notes a successful xubuntu 7.04 32-bit build of om 2007.2 and really goes to bed this time Aug 26 14:43:45 <_buz> any plans to provide that as a vm? Aug 26 14:45:46 Kensan: good question but I don't know much about it Aug 26 14:47:36 bmidgley: NX should work very well. Aug 26 14:49:42 raster: what's exquisite? Aug 26 14:49:54 psplash drop-in replacement Aug 26 14:50:02 but u dont have to compile themes in c Aug 26 14:50:09 it also is resolution agnostic Aug 26 14:50:18 and all the usual pretty eyecandy like stuff u get from me Aug 26 14:50:35 http://www.rasterman.com/ Aug 26 14:50:36 :) Aug 26 14:50:36 explains Aug 26 14:50:51 if u want splashscreens that are purty Aug 26 14:50:55 smooth and sexy Aug 26 14:51:14 (no limit to 8bpp or 16bpp- internally it'll run in 32bpp and render down to 15/16bpp if needed in the fb) Aug 26 14:51:26 advantages are if u are doing a theme - u can do it all in x in a window Aug 26 14:51:31 and test the anims and look Aug 26 14:51:39 as it also runs in x Aug 26 14:52:27 awesome Aug 26 14:52:32 this going to be running on the neo? Aug 26 14:52:35 and thus why raster is the man Aug 26 14:52:37 can use opengl, xrender too Aug 26 14:52:44 runs in fb Aug 26 14:52:59 does all the usual fady, scaley,, 2d effects Aug 26 14:53:04 see the videos Aug 26 14:53:13 primarily its the same usage as psplash Aug 26 14:53:18 drop-in compatbility command-wise Aug 26 14:53:22 I watched both videos Aug 26 14:53:23 cool Aug 26 14:53:24 except its a little cleaner Aug 26 14:53:26 uses unxi socket Aug 26 14:53:28 not fifo Aug 26 14:53:41 its also tiny Aug 26 14:53:45 the src is 600 lines of c Aug 26 14:53:55 the theme file is - well 600 lines of edc Aug 26 14:53:56 too Aug 26 14:53:57 :) Aug 26 14:54:05 but hey Aug 26 14:54:09 themes can get verby Aug 26 14:54:13 depends how fancy u want to be Aug 26 14:54:24 600 lines of C and lots of deps Aug 26 14:54:38 not that bad Aug 26 14:54:49 only eet evas embryo edje and ecore Aug 26 14:54:54 does look nice though Aug 26 14:55:50 the code3 Aug 26 14:55:54 or the screen? Aug 26 14:56:02 yay - I've just got my phone back after a week - now up and running with 2007.2 Aug 26 14:56:12 only one problem - gsm.log = modem dead Aug 26 14:57:39 the screen Aug 26 14:58:35 http://www.rasterman.com/files/exquisite-01.png Aug 26 14:58:38 http://www.rasterman.com/files/exquisite-01.avi Aug 26 14:58:42 http://www.rasterman.com/files/exquisite-02.avi Aug 26 14:58:46 as per all things Aug 26 14:58:50 its themeable Aug 26 14:58:56 so the look is entirely flexible Aug 26 14:59:01 look like anything you like Aug 26 14:59:06 animate any way you please Aug 26 14:59:09 so where;s the .bb file :) Aug 26 14:59:14 just spend some time with gimp Aug 26 14:59:37 and fixing up the .edc to lay things out like you want Aug 26 14:59:41 no bb file Aug 26 14:59:50 i just wrote the program last night Aug 26 15:00:04 well started last night - about 24hrs ago Aug 26 15:00:37 jeez raster so you've had a WHOLE 24 hours and no BB file? You're slipping!!!! :-P Aug 26 15:00:45 hahahahah Aug 26 15:00:59 :D Aug 26 15:01:03 i shall... leave that to others to do... while i sleep Aug 26 15:01:20 now you're sleeping!?!?!? you're not human are you?? Aug 26 15:01:39 raster, it looks great! Aug 26 15:01:58 Bryce_Leo: i'm a turnip actually Aug 26 15:01:59 :) Aug 26 15:02:00 i was told the creator of enlightenment never slept, shot lighting bolts from his fingers, and ate silicon for breakfast, was i lied to! Aug 26 15:02:07 lmao "Raster the turnip" Aug 26 15:02:36 don't underestimate your root vegetables! Aug 26 15:02:39 finally! Aug 26 15:02:48 * Shoragan has debian running on his neo Aug 26 15:02:51 got root (vegateables) Aug 26 15:03:03 haha now there's a motto for the ages Aug 26 15:03:21 does anybody in here know if the gsm modem supports bit-transparent data connections? Aug 26 15:03:59 hahaha Aug 26 15:04:12 gsm is witchcraft and blackmagick Aug 26 15:04:14 now - i need to add usplash compat next Aug 26 15:04:17 methinks Aug 26 15:04:44 LittleIdiot, that would CSD (circuit switched data) Aug 26 15:04:48 wow, that would be sweet, one splash for all your many devices and distros Aug 26 15:05:00 it should be support, but is slower that GPRS Aug 26 15:05:03 it wont be too hard Aug 26 15:05:06 i have it in the READMe Aug 26 15:05:09 the list of cmd's to do Aug 26 15:05:12 niice Aug 26 15:05:49 i alkso should do a few more theme examples Aug 26 15:05:53 no some moko one Aug 26 15:06:05 and some other more "out there" examples Aug 26 15:06:17 note sure my default splahs will be too nice on q2vga Aug 26 15:06:20 qvga Aug 26 15:06:24 i might have to adjust it a bit Aug 26 15:07:30 shouldn't need much adjusting Aug 26 15:07:39 not much at all Aug 26 15:07:48 shackan: yes, but i heard that some modems only do v.* and don't allow me to use a lower layer... thats what i wanted to know ;) Aug 26 15:07:49 just adjust some scaling and font sizes Aug 26 15:08:10 yeah that should be about it Aug 26 15:08:13 actually i can adjust it so the font size is chosen based on area available Aug 26 15:08:19 so just need to adjust the logo and prog bar a bit Aug 26 15:08:33 just laziness on my part not making it adjust right Aug 26 15:08:35 will fix that Aug 26 15:09:12 that would be easiest, but hey this is version 1 it's not supposed to be all finished out of the box Aug 26 15:10:34 0.01 Aug 26 15:10:37 0.0.1 Aug 26 15:11:25 not bad for a 0.0.1 Aug 26 15:11:30 hahaha Aug 26 15:11:31 i dont think it has any bugs Aug 26 15:11:34 tho Aug 26 15:11:40 i'd say pretty damn good Aug 26 15:12:28 wish i had more time to devote to it Aug 26 15:12:29 * Derbot2 happy about working mplayer :) Aug 26 15:12:32 maybe in future Aug 26 15:12:35 as i said Aug 26 15:12:36 for now Aug 26 15:12:42 need to make it usplash compatible Aug 26 15:13:11 yeah, that would probably be top of the todo Aug 26 15:13:17 just for world domination requiremenmts Aug 26 15:13:21 more sample themes Aug 26 15:13:26 better default Aug 26 15:13:38 i can always go crazy Aug 26 15:13:43 like supoprt for video elements Aug 26 15:13:52 hahaha or svg elements Aug 26 15:13:54 (eg put an mpg/avi as a theme splash element etc.) Aug 26 15:13:55 * Bryce_Leo hides Aug 26 15:13:59 svg is possible Aug 26 15:14:19 then with a bit of work, one logo for all resolutions of your devices Aug 26 15:14:32 i just need to hook up the ability to specify a svg to drop in Aug 26 15:14:35 the rest is done Aug 26 15:14:38 you could always just make it at the largest size and have it scale down easily though Aug 26 15:15:22 generally that works pretty well Aug 26 15:15:27 bitmaps are flexible Aug 26 15:15:30 and pwoerful Aug 26 15:15:34 that's for sure Aug 26 15:15:34 if u know what u are doing Aug 26 15:15:37 i dont NEED svg Aug 26 15:15:45 svg is great for printing Aug 26 15:15:52 that's for sure Aug 26 15:15:53 and when u need rediculously high res Aug 26 15:16:01 but for normal usage like this Aug 26 15:16:03 bitmaps do it all Aug 26 15:16:04 but for screens it's not really necessary Aug 26 15:16:11 yeah, I agree with that Aug 26 15:16:12 yup Aug 26 15:17:22 and with how long it's taking screen res and size to advance it'll be a nice gradual thin got keep up with Aug 26 15:18:05 ytup Aug 26 15:18:15 i really dont see u going much beyond 64px480 for devides like the moko Aug 26 15:18:19 800x480 maybe Aug 26 15:18:23 or 800x600 at a push Aug 26 15:18:25 but thats it Aug 26 15:18:31 u need to be able to scale down tho Aug 26 15:18:32 to qvga Aug 26 15:18:34 and below Aug 26 15:18:52 in all honesty Aug 26 15:19:02 a phone with a vertical 800x480 screen Aug 26 15:19:11 with the same dpi as the neo's vga screen' Aug 26 15:19:16 would be gorgeous Aug 26 15:19:17 in fact Aug 26 15:19:22 it'd kick bums Aug 26 15:19:43 and it is feasible at the moment Aug 26 15:19:46 "You bums can't afford me, muhahaha *kick*" Aug 26 15:19:58 but the problem going much higher is the lack of horsepower to fill that many pixels Aug 26 15:20:27 ok now I can Install what I want in the SD card. now, what should I install??? Aug 26 15:20:28 also the batteris Aug 26 15:20:36 batteries are no where near where they need to be Aug 26 15:20:39 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Phlash]] Aug 26 15:21:08 true Aug 26 15:21:10 Ghiottone: lua, mrxvt Aug 26 15:21:17 and to put horsepower in to fill more pixels Aug 26 15:21:20 means more power drain Aug 26 15:21:21 openmoko: 03shoragan * r2831 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.21.x/patches/ (s3cmci-unfinished-write-fix.patch series): Aug 26 15:21:21 openmoko: Fix Bug #677 - I/O errors on heavy microSD writes for 2.6.21.x. Aug 26 15:21:21 openmoko: Thanks to Roman Moravcik for the patch. Aug 26 15:21:26 and thus means bigger battries Aug 26 15:21:28 more weight Aug 26 15:21:29 etcv. Aug 26 15:21:32 all compromises Aug 26 15:21:34 :( Aug 26 15:22:05 heh, well there's always that M1 battery thing Aug 26 15:22:27 m1? Aug 26 15:22:29 also if fuelcells get up there i wouldn't mind re-filling my phone every couple days with alcohol Aug 26 15:22:38 http://wwwa.com/wired/archive/14.03/start.html?pg=9 Aug 26 15:22:49 oh god no thanks Aug 26 15:22:53 fuel cells... Aug 26 15:23:04 just think about trying to take a flight with a fule cell Aug 26 15:23:24 "you terroist! thats explosive liquids! and its more than 100ml and its not in the clear plastic bag!" Aug 26 15:23:26 hahaha, good point on the fuel cells, my grandpa had enough trouble with his nitro pills Aug 26 15:23:28 terrorist Aug 26 15:23:30 i meant Aug 26 15:23:44 what we need is mroe damned wireless power! Aug 26 15:23:44 :) Aug 26 15:23:45 openmoko: 03shoragan * r2832 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (s3cmci-unfinished-write-fix.patch series): Aug 26 15:23:45 openmoko: Fix Bug #677 - I/O errors on heavy microSD writes for 2.6.22.x. Aug 26 15:23:45 openmoko: Thanks to Roman Moravcik for the patch. Aug 26 15:23:56 lol wireless power would be awesome Aug 26 15:24:11 You know this all is why GTA03 will need a mechanical diamondoid rod nanocomputer, those beasts can work with surprisingly little power. You know, if you can figure out to build one. Aug 26 15:25:02 lol, the M1 style batter is probably the best bet, double the power density, pretty sweet. Aug 26 15:26:00 u also just need excellent power saving/efficiency Aug 26 15:26:14 some company - philips i think, have bene working on clockless cpu's Aug 26 15:26:20 and i think arm are getting into it Aug 26 15:26:25 that could be very interesting Aug 26 15:26:38 wow, clockless?? (googles) Aug 26 15:26:42 most phones or such devices spend a lot of time asleep Aug 26 15:26:46 waiting for input Aug 26 15:26:55 (network data, or user input) Aug 26 15:26:59 clocks always tick Aug 26 15:27:03 even when everythgin else is idle Aug 26 15:27:17 i think most phones do well on standby time because they cloks a lot of themsleevs down to something slow Aug 26 15:27:18 like 1mhz Aug 26 15:27:28 just enough to be able to "see whats going on" Aug 26 15:27:45 and step back up to 100+mhz or whatever when theres some "action" Aug 26 15:28:12 very true Aug 26 15:28:40 also how much draw is from the radio? (gsm cdma etc) that's another issue to look at Aug 26 15:28:42 clockless cpus and other components could literally save lots of power by just nto ticking at all - unless they are doing something Aug 26 15:28:48 yup Aug 26 15:28:54 i think that is powered down too Aug 26 15:29:03 transmitting takes much mroe than recieving Aug 26 15:29:05 i think Aug 26 15:29:17 so as long as u have just enough to see if there is a signal of interest Aug 26 15:29:22 u can shut down a lot Aug 26 15:29:29 hmm.. .clockless cpus seem like they're a godsend for portable devices Aug 26 15:29:29 wake up when u NEED to send stuff Aug 26 15:29:36 similarly Neo's SoC can go down to 12 MHz slow mode (or just sleep if there's nothing to do but wait for interrupts) Aug 26 15:29:47 make sure your protocols are such that filtring is done at base-stations as much as possible instead of devices Aug 26 15:29:59 dont requrie devices to reply when the data is not for them Aug 26 15:29:59 etc. Aug 26 15:30:06 yeah, flitering at the device would be a boon Aug 26 15:30:12 mjr: only 12mhz? Aug 26 15:30:14 no lower? Aug 26 15:30:23 bugger Aug 26 15:30:27 nope, the next step is powered off Aug 26 15:30:42 i swear reading about some arms that will go to 1mhz Aug 26 15:31:22 40 mW at 12 MHz, not that bad, and if you really don't need to do anything, it can wake up from the 0.2 mW sleep on interrupts... Aug 26 15:31:54 thats true Aug 26 15:31:59 u just need to avoid the wakeup Aug 26 15:32:11 i guess theres still a lot of work to be done in the userspace land Aug 26 15:32:19 lots, yes Aug 26 15:32:24 like making sure all userspace processes literally do sit and block/wait in input Aug 26 15:32:25 there's always tons to be don in userspace Aug 26 15:32:27 instead of poll Aug 26 15:32:57 at least all the core userspace apps that u'd expect to be running while the phone is "on standby" Aug 26 15:33:01 as has been said plenty, much of the power management isn't yet Aug 26 15:33:14 hehehe Aug 26 15:33:15 :) Aug 26 15:33:47 the good thing about that is that we _can_ expect the battery to last more than a few hours eventually Aug 26 15:34:13 there should be a big pool on how long the battery life ends up being Aug 26 15:35:04 i hope Aug 26 15:35:13 right now my moko is lucky to last even that Aug 26 15:35:41 my n800 had a similar problem Aug 26 15:35:47 i think i had a dev kernel on it Aug 26 15:35:51 but it'd last about 8hrs Aug 26 15:35:57 then be dead Aug 26 15:36:03 and that'd be with screen off for all that time Aug 26 15:36:11 i reflashe4d and now it goes for days Aug 26 15:36:35 niice Aug 26 15:37:10 considering the neo and n800 are not disimilar cpu's (tho samsung vs ti) Aug 26 15:37:17 similar clock speed and other features Aug 26 15:37:19 whats the standby time of the n800 ? Aug 26 15:37:23 i'd expect similar battery life Aug 26 15:38:22 n800 has a 1500mah battery Aug 26 15:38:27 neo 1200mah Aug 26 15:38:31 similar voltage Aug 26 15:39:37 i'm gonna bet that the neo lasts about a day to half day less than the n800 Aug 26 15:39:49 Hm, bug 677 being fixed means it's MUST REFLASH KERNEL time Aug 26 15:40:43 yay kernel re-flash Aug 26 15:41:13 lets see Aug 26 15:41:34 what is the command to create a kernel image suitable for dfu-util ? Aug 26 15:41:36 first i want my neo to stop looking like arse :) Aug 26 15:42:14 can't the processor be completely off and wake on interrupts? Aug 26 15:42:15 raster: damn right gotta have the prioritys straight!! sweet looks before functionality (same as it is with women :-P ) Aug 26 15:42:26 yup Aug 26 15:42:27 :) Aug 26 15:42:29 so Aug 26 15:42:34 now i can have sexy splashing Aug 26 15:42:45 need to dot the i's and cross the t's there Aug 26 15:42:48 then move to my next target Aug 26 15:42:49 ... Aug 26 15:43:22 Bryce_Leo: I would like to direct your attention to http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The-Cool-Cam.aspx , which shows raster might be more correct than you imagine Aug 26 15:44:37 * raster reads Aug 26 15:44:40 * Bryce_Leo reads Aug 26 15:48:26 * Basheri reads Aug 26 15:48:57 hehehehheehe Aug 26 15:48:59 aaah oath Aug 26 15:49:02 oh, my #677 fixed? Groovy. Aug 26 15:49:02 the cool cam Aug 26 15:49:05 i'll remember that Aug 26 15:49:10 but its true Aug 26 15:49:15 u can have glaring bugs Aug 26 15:49:19 lack of functionality Aug 26 15:49:21 or usefulness Aug 26 15:49:26 massive restrictions Aug 26 15:49:29 (iphone anyone?) Aug 26 15:49:32 but if its sexy Aug 26 15:49:35 all is forgive Aug 26 15:49:36 all is forgiven Aug 26 15:49:45 as everyone is too busy wiping the drool from their screens Aug 26 15:49:53 * mwester recalls the introduction of Sun's SPARCstations all too well... Aug 26 15:49:58 never forget Aug 26 15:50:00 sex sells. Aug 26 15:50:03 get used to it. Aug 26 15:50:12 (sex in many ways) Aug 26 15:50:12 lol Aug 26 15:50:15 that is a great article Aug 26 15:51:30 indeed Aug 26 15:52:37 !ombug 677 Aug 26 15:52:39 * * Bug 677, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown Aug 26 15:52:40 * * mjr(AT)iki.fi: I/O errors on heavy microSD writes Aug 26 15:52:41 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=677 Aug 26 15:54:35 hey - can someone help me out with a quick problem. I'm running ubuntu feisty - and I can't get the openmoko to route through it so that I can see the net from the phone Aug 26 15:54:45 followed the USB networking on the wiki - but to no avail Aug 26 15:55:05 andylock1an, check your network config Aug 26 15:55:15 the neo default ip is 192.168.0.202 Aug 26 15:55:32 yeah, I can ssh into it fine Aug 26 15:55:42 I just can't get packets forwarded thru my ubuntu machine Aug 26 15:55:53 ah ok Aug 26 15:56:15 a simple masquerading setting + forward should work fine Aug 26 15:56:26 sudo ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 Aug 26 15:56:29 sudo route add 192.168.0.202 dev usb0 Aug 26 15:56:52 (as root) Aug 26 15:56:54 echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward Aug 26 15:57:04 sudo iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE Aug 26 15:57:04 sudo iptables -L Aug 26 15:57:06 done Aug 26 15:57:14 u get the idea Aug 26 15:58:31 yeah, hold on yeah, I'd expect that to work Aug 26 15:58:35 but it doesnt... Aug 26 15:58:53 can someone give me info about pyMoko? Aug 26 15:58:54 giobbe: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 26 15:59:01 the word press on the pymoko home page is broken Aug 26 15:59:30 and it looks like there's no python available inside openembedded right now Aug 26 16:00:29 giobbe: huh? Aug 26 16:00:31 anyone else help with the weird networking problem? Aug 26 16:00:56 there's python python-gtk2 whatever makes ya happy Aug 26 16:01:30 andylockran: are you just trying to access the net through the device? Aug 26 16:01:34 Bryce_Leo: It's strange because I've built an image from the svn using mokomakefile Aug 26 16:01:46 giobbe: none of those come in by default Aug 26 16:01:55 ah good Aug 26 16:02:11 Bryce_Leo: yeah, that's all I want to do Aug 26 16:02:13 giobbe: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course Aug 26 16:02:14 so I missed something in the docs on how to build those addictional things inside Aug 26 16:02:22 go down to the python section Aug 26 16:02:25 Bryce_Leo, many man y thanks :) Aug 26 16:02:36 andylockran: do you have a resolv.conf on the moko? Aug 26 16:02:41 giobbe: no problem Aug 26 16:02:42 yeah, created one Aug 26 16:03:06 andylockran: are you running iptables? have you tried shutting it off and seeing it if it works? Aug 26 16:03:09 maybe a bad rule? Aug 26 16:03:54 iptables -L is empty Aug 26 16:04:08 damn Aug 26 16:04:43 and you didn't get any errors with the setup? Aug 26 16:04:48 andylockran: iptables -t nat -L Aug 26 16:04:54 andylockran: you have to use the same -t Aug 26 16:04:59 andylockran: the default -t is -t filter Aug 26 16:05:26 hmm, speaking of python -- is it a worthwhile pursuit to use python for writing applications for openmoko at this point, or is it a better bet to stick to C? Aug 26 16:05:48 http://pastebin.com/m2aca58c9 Aug 26 16:05:55 * cesarb would use debian's "ipmasq" instead of playing with iptables... why reinvent the whell when you already have a high-quality working solution? Aug 26 16:05:56 there are some repetitions in that.. Aug 26 16:06:13 cesarb: I've never had much luck with ipmasq Aug 26 16:06:18 how do I clear iptables.. Aug 26 16:06:22 juco2: i've heard that python apps run fine on the gta01, but if there's a second less powerful device put out then it will depend Aug 26 16:06:59 hmm Aug 26 16:07:01 juco2: it depeends on the app but C will be fastest Aug 26 16:07:08 yeah, I recognize that Aug 26 16:07:09 andylockran: try "iptables -t nat -L -n -v" and check if the counters are greater than zero Aug 26 16:07:17 what kind of app you thinking of juco Aug 26 16:07:18 programming in pyton i heard is a bless though Aug 26 16:07:21 andylockran: oh, and check neo's default route Aug 26 16:07:23 but writing in python means I don't have to wait for bitbake Aug 26 16:07:29 andylockran: it probably doesn't have a default route by default Aug 26 16:07:42 juco2 lol that's true Aug 26 16:08:22 http://pastebin.com/mf13af2d Aug 26 16:08:33 counters on the first one are greater than 0 Aug 26 16:08:42 46 pkts Aug 26 16:08:52 2982 bytes Aug 26 16:08:58 juco2, It's simply funny to use a scripting language like perl or python because you can simply script around Aug 26 16:09:19 juco, python should be just fine to use for most stuff Aug 26 16:09:40 granted, the gta01's flash may get cramped with python, but at least we have microsd Aug 26 16:09:59 though I have several python packages installed just fine) Aug 26 16:10:05 cool Aug 26 16:10:24 that changes my thinking a bit Aug 26 16:11:01 routing looks right on the phone Aug 26 16:11:10 keeping up to date with the dev environment using Mokomakefile is taking longer than I thought it would Aug 26 16:11:56 balls.. Aug 26 16:12:03 and since I've not devoted a ton of time to this, I'm finding that a large percentage is being spent compiling and packaging Aug 26 16:12:04 juco2 same here.. glibc-2.5.r6 takes ages over here also Aug 26 16:13:33 so I either need to allocate some time to setting a up a schedule and system were I make sure I have a working up to date dev environment waiting for me in the mornings Aug 26 16:14:19 or maybe think about using python Aug 26 16:14:47 has anyone gotten bluetooth fully worked out yet so that it can be used instead of USB (i.e. networking etc)? Aug 26 16:15:15 but, coming from the maemo world, its hard to resist being able to build and flash the entire OS at will Aug 26 16:15:28 yeah, I have BT networking working according to the instructions in the wiki Aug 26 16:15:44 or had, anyway, not sure if I've used that on .2 yet, but should work the same Aug 26 16:15:49 juco2, my thinking is: openmoko-dialer and gsmd are crashing all the time.... Aug 26 16:15:54 is there some sorta GUI for it mjr? Aug 26 16:16:05 not to my knowledge Aug 26 16:16:22 giobbe: yeah, I don't use my neo as my primary cell phone Aug 26 16:16:25 torpor: you do anything with that build env you setup yesterday Aug 26 16:16:27 ?* Aug 26 16:16:27 juco2, so until there are no major upgrades.... I prefer to restart the gsmd everytime crashes using a script, and I'm trying to develop my own apps Aug 26 16:16:33 with something like python Aug 26 16:16:40 in order to use the phone :) Aug 26 16:16:46 ah :) Aug 26 16:16:54 Bryce_Leo: yes, i'm coding up an app for it now. on my second app - a simple clock Aug 26 16:17:08 I work at a company where I write apps for phones Aug 26 16:17:16 so I have lots of phones and sims available Aug 26 16:17:19 juco2: i would like to have such a job Aug 26 16:17:25 Bryce_Leo, Same here, but I can't resist :) I would like to go outside using the phone functionality even with a script running from terminal :) Aug 26 16:17:31 nerd+ :) Aug 26 16:17:45 juco2, btw, also mickey has been working on the python packages, and that's all the endorsement of python I need ;P Aug 26 16:17:59 torpor: well, what that means is that I write in j2me most of the time Aug 26 16:18:09 so I'm not sure how enviable that is Aug 26 16:18:31 isn't there a j2me package ? Aug 26 16:18:34 torpor: sweet deal, any eta on when you're gonna put up the tar or post your howto on your user page? Aug 26 16:18:36 i thought i read something about that Aug 26 16:18:52 the openmoko project is so attractive because it isn't constrained to sandboxed environments like that Aug 26 16:18:56 hp, there is a project Aug 26 16:19:04 I check in on it every so often Aug 26 16:19:17 but last I checked, it wasn't usable Aug 26 16:19:27 at least not for running commercial midlets Aug 26 16:19:33 like google maps ;) Aug 26 16:19:33 Bryce_Leo: i'm gonna finish this app, the work on a user page to intro how i did it all.. but i gotta make something worthwhile first. no "hello world" for me .. i wanna be a bit meaty. Aug 26 16:19:38 still an ongoing process i guess. Aug 26 16:20:06 yeah, I keep thinking about seeing if I can contribute Aug 26 16:20:12 torpor: that sounds awesome, i'll integrate it into the app dev crash course after you finish it up! keep me posted Aug 26 16:20:23 i will mate, don't worry. Aug 26 16:20:39 but I haven't managed to organize my time well enough to do so Aug 26 16:20:46 its pretty lovely to write for openmoko, actually, t be honest... the stuff thats available to code with is delicious. Aug 26 16:20:55 awesome thanks torpor, id really like to get the crash course to be reasonable pretty soon Aug 26 16:21:09 now, my company is talking about running out of funding, so if I find myself unemployed, I might just have a whole bunch of time Aug 26 16:21:26 torpor: yeah, its the best I've ever seen Aug 26 16:21:37 it makes me jealous Aug 26 16:21:56 i'd like it to be a little more worthwile, i mean if you know what you're doing you can make it compile gdk apps with libs and all but that's a bit ephemeral for the moent Aug 26 16:22:01 I keep waving my neo around trying to get my company to use it as a platform Aug 26 16:22:50 anyone know anything about the rumors that google is interested in openmoko? Aug 26 16:23:07 juco2: doubt it Aug 26 16:23:18 any cool company google is interested Aug 26 16:23:21 its on ongoing rumor Aug 26 16:25:10 last i heard, google was going with HTC hardware Aug 26 16:25:22 and possibly running a modified openmoko distro Aug 26 16:25:33 but that too falls in the category of "rumor" Aug 26 16:25:46 right Aug 26 16:25:56 the GTA02 wil bring a lot more publicity and development i believe Aug 26 16:26:04 its good to see some brothering projects on the projects page Aug 26 16:26:46 I've read somewhere about this javafx thing, but I was unable to understand the current state of the thing Aug 26 16:27:04 probably in the "planning" stage Aug 26 16:27:12 i believe there are only a few that actually have some code now Aug 26 16:27:25 which makes sense, getting used to the devel platform, planning ,etc. itll all come together ;] Aug 26 16:27:57 It should be really nice to have a "jfxdk" with low-level hardware support :) Aug 26 16:36:31 * giobbe boccheggia Aug 26 16:40:17 ./././. Aug 26 16:48:33 juco2: my company is pursuing using the openmoko as a platform Aug 26 16:49:04 trying to get some into the hands of some of our customers with lots of field techs, and start doing some interesting stuff once thay all have 'em Aug 26 16:49:16 but right now we're in the 'evaluating' stage. If it had 3G it'd be so obvious. Aug 26 16:49:22 endless possibilities :) Aug 26 16:49:33 jadams: what company do you work for? Aug 26 16:49:57 Bryce_Leo: I'm a partner at http://www.isotope11.com. We do custom IT work and custom development, as well as basic web development Aug 26 16:50:19 pretty sweet Aug 26 16:50:23 the site's in a pretty awful state right now, but it's better than it was a month ago... Aug 26 16:51:04 jadams: really, 3g would make a difference? Aug 26 16:51:05 we've just begun eating our own dogfood w/r/t using the Rails CMS product I developed :) Aug 26 16:51:16 haha hard to sell webdevelopment without a good design, as you know the two are directly related (rolls eyes) Aug 26 16:51:22 i love consumers Aug 26 16:51:40 juco2: well, it's also a matter of data plans though...but yeah, higher speeds enable some cooler apps Aug 26 16:51:52 Bryce_Leo: luckily we're doing lots of corporate / functional stuff Aug 26 16:52:02 hmm, I've been less than thrilled with WCDMA in the US Aug 26 16:52:13 jadams: sweet deal, corporate wom is powerful Aug 26 16:52:30 i look forward to getting a gta02 Aug 26 16:52:43 so anyone have suggestions for me? I'm about to begin googling my way to building a pygtk app on the neo Aug 26 16:52:46 in fact, I just modified an AT&T Motorola V3xx to disable 3g Aug 26 16:52:48 torpor, amen Aug 26 16:53:03 as it can't seem to handle the switchover Aug 26 16:53:05 suggestions for what app to build, jadams? Aug 26 16:53:11 in a reasonable manor Aug 26 16:53:14 juco2, yes i've noticed that tooo Aug 26 16:53:16 too* Aug 26 16:53:17 torpor: pygtk hello world on neo Aug 26 16:53:20 with a normal v3x Aug 26 16:53:35 the Nokia N75 seems to do a bit better Aug 26 16:53:40 but I haven't used it much Aug 26 16:53:55 the best "3g" performance I've seen is with EVDO Aug 26 16:54:16 but I can't imagine that will ever be available to openmoko Aug 26 16:54:30 usb evdo adapter anyone? Aug 26 16:54:56 oh, true enough Aug 26 16:55:22 hrm...think I'll just play with python-curses first Aug 26 16:55:25 I suppose you couldn't use that for traditional voice Aug 26 16:55:51 first app I want to build will just send the remote control commands to my xmms Aug 26 16:56:24 jadams: heh, that's something I always think about Aug 26 16:56:34 but with mpd Aug 26 16:56:43 are you talking about xmms or xmms2? Aug 26 16:56:55 as xmms2 and mpd are more or less the same sort of system Aug 26 16:57:06 jadams: not ruby ? Aug 26 16:57:10 * ScaredyCat slaps jadams Aug 26 16:57:51 ScaredyCat: I'll be doing ruby Aug 26 16:57:59 but python-curses is already there Aug 26 16:58:08 and I want quick ROI to get me hooked on coding for this phone :) Aug 26 16:58:57 I've already written my hello world on this sucker in ruby...but I don't know where to go from there, re: ruby gui programming for the phone Aug 26 16:59:31 got my build environment set up on my work machine and I'm ssh'ed in, but I don't really know where to go from here re:cross-compiling ruby libs I need Aug 26 17:00:16 one big issue for me: irb; require 'drb'; yields no such file to load -- socket Aug 26 17:00:29 which kinda makes ruby network programming a kick in the pants for the moment Aug 26 17:00:54 although I didn't realize irb was running on the phone until I typed it :) Aug 26 17:05:32 ;/ Aug 26 17:05:40 (script) planet: Jan Luebbe: Debian on the Neo1973 http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/post/jan/2007-08-26/debian-neo1973 Aug 26 17:08:40 ScaredyCat: I've almost got my pycurses winamp remote finished, then I can look at ruby again...or pygtk Aug 26 17:20:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Ulm]] [[User:Lokolb]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arkansas]] [[Booting_from_SD]] [[IPhone]] Aug 26 17:25:36 how do I do ssh-keygen on the phone? Aug 26 17:25:51 or password-less ssh from phone to elsewhere? Aug 26 17:26:39 ahh Aug 26 17:26:42 in the wiki, plain as day Aug 26 17:26:43 sigh Aug 26 17:26:56 Yep yep! Aug 26 17:26:59 oh, no...that's in reverse Aug 26 17:27:36 jadams: inverse the inverse? Aug 26 17:27:49 Bryce_Leo: except I can't run ssh-keygen on the phone Aug 26 17:27:58 so how do I create my .pub file? Aug 26 17:28:06 jadams: then copy your private key from your computer to the phone? Aug 26 17:28:13 godamn i hate wiki's Aug 26 17:28:55 torpor: ?? Aug 26 17:29:32 it's being very hard to setup the build environment with mokomakefile with my fedora core 5, I guess is much better upgrade to fedora core 7. Does anyboy use FC7 and mokomakefile without problems? Aug 26 17:29:54 meus: copying the private key to the phone doesn't yield passwordless ssh from phone -> host Aug 26 17:30:20 jadams: i do not have a phone, but should you not be able to run ssh-agent or somthing on it? Aug 26 17:30:38 * ScaredyCat slaps jadams with a bridge Aug 26 17:30:55 jroman: ive problems with several distributions Aug 26 17:31:00 OpenMoko uses the dropbear ssh client and server; you need to convert your key into dropbear's format before using on the Neo Aug 26 17:31:12 jroman: but FC never tired Aug 26 17:31:13 this is done through dropbearconvert Aug 26 17:31:16 meus: ssh-agent isn't on the phone, and it has dropbear instead of openssl on it... Aug 26 17:31:17 *tried Aug 26 17:31:23 jroman - I use fedora core 6 with no problems Aug 26 17:31:25 ah ok :) Aug 26 17:31:26 mjr: great, thanks Aug 26 17:31:42 jadams: I wrote the WHOLE process out, it's on the wiki, usb networking Aug 26 17:32:02 and for the dropbear ssh client, you need to spesify the key file with -i, and I don't think it supports passphrases in keys at the moment Aug 26 17:32:23 errm, you don;t need to do anything to the key Aug 26 17:32:40 jroman: i has zero distribution-related problems doing a build with mokomakefile on Ubuntu Studio .. Aug 26 17:32:40 thx Aug 26 17:32:49 which i suppose is really just a fancy ubuntu. Aug 26 17:33:15 torpor: what is a fancy ubuntu? Aug 26 17:33:19 ScaredyCat: I've looked at that page, and all I see is host -> phone w/o password... Aug 26 17:34:04 yes, the procedure is the same... Aug 26 17:34:35 you do have to use a modicum of intelligence Aug 26 17:34:45 ScaredyCat: the wiki uses ssh-keygen. ssh-keygen isn't on the phone Aug 26 17:35:00 ie . the bit that says "when prompted for a password either hit enter for no password" Aug 26 17:35:00 I'm dealing with dropbearkey now, I'm getting it handled Aug 26 17:35:05 you type a password Aug 26 17:35:20 bitbake it Aug 26 17:35:21 Bryce_Leo: ubuntustudio == fancy ubuntu with realtime kernel Aug 26 17:35:40 where to get that? Aug 26 17:35:41 ScaredyCat: I can ssh into the phone fine. I want to be able to run commands using the key without having to enter a password. and I don't need to bitbake it, now that I know about dropbearkey. Aug 26 17:35:50 torpor: ahh ok, i was confused because he asked about fedora Aug 26 17:36:01 i know Aug 26 17:36:07 torpor: i thought you were saying that fedora is a fancy ubuntu and i nearly had a connipiton Aug 26 17:36:11 just trying to give him something else as a reference. ubuntu really was no problems Aug 26 17:36:24 connption--; // good word, btw. Aug 26 17:36:25 torpor: yes i see now i was haivng trouble following the backlog Aug 26 17:36:32 haha thanks :-D Aug 26 17:37:04 jadams: run commands on the phone without being asked a p/w Aug 26 17:37:49 ScaredyCat: yeah, as in ssh -c "command" Aug 26 17:37:50 torpor: realtime? Aug 26 17:38:01 really realtime? Aug 26 17:38:30 ScaredyCat: yeah, its designed for audio/music use. its an ubuntu for musicians/artists. gives best possible performance for apps like ardour and rosegarden and cindelerra and such Aug 26 17:38:59 aah ok.. yeah, I've tried rosegarden on my laptop, it didn;t like it :) Aug 26 17:39:12 i use ubuntustudio for my linux media work Aug 26 17:39:32 I hadn't heard of it ... til now :) Aug 26 17:41:54 new gp2x??? sweet sweet madness Aug 26 17:42:11 yup Aug 26 17:42:18 except its not such a great leap forward Aug 26 17:42:30 yeah... i just looked and still no 3d Aug 26 17:42:35 no normal USB host port, for example Aug 26 17:42:48 3d is not so necessary when there's a spare arm920t doing nothing Aug 26 17:42:49 you can usbhost if you have it plugged into the doc though Aug 26 17:42:56 there's a very nice 3d toolkit for that second ARM cpu Aug 26 17:43:03 yes but with 3d it could run my PS1 games Aug 26 17:43:08 yeah. fyi, i have 5 gp2x's. ;) Aug 26 17:43:18 hahaha wow, torpor rolling in the cash!!! Aug 26 17:43:19 i9t can do ps1 Aug 26 17:43:33 i used 'em for prototyping when i was at access .. Aug 26 17:43:36 torpor: you mean there's a working good emulator for ps1 on the gp2x???? Aug 26 17:43:42 replaced my smdk2410 devboard Aug 26 17:43:47 yup Aug 26 17:43:53 torpor: you worked for access tech? the ones that are doing palms next linux supposedly? Aug 26 17:44:02 no Aug 26 17:44:12 access music - makers of the virus synth. virus.info Aug 26 17:44:14 wow... i can't belive i missed the release of the emulator... i think i might pick up a 2x Aug 26 17:44:22 ahh ok got it Aug 26 17:44:25 different access Aug 26 17:44:49 worked 5 years getting music/midi sorted in an embeddable arm distro only to be fired coz the company wanted to stay closed-source .. Aug 26 17:45:37 so now i'm turning it all back to the linux world, and putting my expertise with audio/midi on linux-arm back into the dist's i was always never allowed to implement in a shipping product, like openembedded, open2x, etc. Aug 26 17:46:03 psx4all Aug 26 17:46:05 wow... impressive Aug 26 17:46:11 ^^ name of the psx emu.. i checked. Aug 26 17:46:16 good for you, sucks that the company was such dick Aug 26 17:46:27 man, they were dicks. Aug 26 17:46:40 awsome, thanks! i'm gonna def pick me up a gp2x once i've got the cash Aug 26 17:46:46 that's how most big business is Aug 26 17:46:50 do it, its a lovely machine Aug 26 17:47:16 torpor: and how is batter with 2AA? and do the 1.2v nimh batters work ok? Aug 26 17:47:56 ScaredyCat: what was missing for me was '-i id_dsa' to tell it what to connect with...openssh didn't ever require that of me, hence my confusion Aug 26 17:47:56 you have to put 2500++ mha's into it .. but you can get up to 3 to 4 hours no problems. Aug 26 17:47:59 I'll put something in the wiki Aug 26 17:48:54 torpor: sweet I shoot weddings on the weekends so i have tons of 2700mah AA's Aug 26 17:48:57 cool, good one jadams Aug 26 17:49:00 i have 2600 mha batteries in all my gp2x's but i don't really notice a battery life problem because i poewr all my gp2x's anyway .. theyr'e embedded in things like a customized virus KC keyboard, which has ample space for such things. Aug 26 17:49:33 wow, that's damn cool Aug 26 17:50:44 torpor: thanks for all the info on the gp2x Aug 26 17:51:57 welcome Aug 26 17:53:47 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#SSH_Keys updated with passwordless phone->host ssh Aug 26 17:54:50 ScaredyCat: of course it doesn't matter, since the ssh client on the phone doesn't support -c anyway Aug 26 17:54:53 hrm... Aug 26 17:55:01 :/ Aug 26 17:55:50 I guess it is fairly unusual Aug 26 17:55:56 for an embedded device... Aug 26 17:57:16 the embedded line is being blurred daily. i don't consider the gp2x or the neo to be embedded devices; they are portable linux systems that no longer constrain themselves to the desktop or the 19" rack. Aug 26 17:59:43 jadams: openssh packages uploaded in about 5 mins Aug 26 18:03:19 done Aug 26 18:03:32 ScaredyCat: awesome, I was just about to build them Aug 26 18:03:40 I'm just now realizing how OE/bitbake work Aug 26 18:03:44 :) Aug 26 18:05:07 and I've got a machine up at the office just begging to be told to compile :) Aug 26 18:05:08 ScaredyCat: awesome, as soon as this is working my little openssh-xmms-python-ncurses remote should be working :) Aug 26 18:05:08 and maybe now that I'm learning about bitbake I can see what's up with socket.rb Aug 26 18:05:53 good stuff .... Aug 26 18:06:42 someone send a sms with the neo already? i got strange char converts.... '_' gets something else fo example Aug 26 18:06:58 mdt: hadn't even considered sending an sms with it yet :) Aug 26 18:07:29 anyone running a raid at home? Aug 26 18:07:39 I sent a hello world one to my wife... Aug 26 18:07:44 manually though Aug 26 18:07:56 Bryce_Leo, but of course Aug 26 18:08:12 are you doing it through a separate card or off the motherboard? Aug 26 18:08:30 i've only run raid on servers.... Aug 26 18:08:37 I get this everytime I do an ipkg update: Inflating http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/fic-gta01/Packages.gz Aug 26 18:08:40 An error ocurred, return value: 9. Aug 26 18:08:50 (that's the last line as well) Aug 26 18:09:27 ScaredyCat, manualy means gsmd or AT...? Aug 26 18:09:40 AT mdt Aug 26 18:09:55 Bryce_Leo, software Aug 26 18:10:06 mjr: through lvm? Aug 26 18:10:53 md Aug 26 18:11:14 mjr ahh ok Aug 26 18:11:21 how's the performance hit on your cpu? Aug 26 18:11:25 negligeable? (sp_ Aug 26 18:11:43 less than the loop-aes Aug 26 18:11:58 wow, what raid level? Aug 26 18:12:08 ScaredyCat, does gsmd use the sms-text-mode? or does it build pdu itself? Aug 26 18:12:10 5 and 1 both in use Aug 26 18:12:22 really, disks are slow Aug 26 18:12:47 yeah, i was just worried about it clogging up the bus as well Aug 26 18:12:48 can anyone do 'ipkg update' right now? I've gotten the same error four times Aug 26 18:13:22 Well, not for me. Though loop-aes does seem to have issues with heavy loads :I Aug 26 18:13:27 yay! my ipkgorphan works! Aug 26 18:13:51 haha well that makes sense with aes Aug 26 18:13:57 : greets his first useful program on the Neo Aug 26 18:14:38 s$:$/me$ Aug 26 18:14:44 :P Aug 26 18:16:11 anyone here use the mokomakefile? try to get a feeling for things before diving in and having trouble. Aug 26 18:17:36 Bryce_Leo, well, it could still schedule access nicer so that one heavy i/o process wouldn't stall pretty much everything else Aug 26 18:19:16 neclimdul, I'm using it. recipe is: make update-makefile; make setup update; make openmoko-devel-image Aug 26 18:20:11 yeah, that's what I'm doing but its dieing on one of the image steps and not sure about the next step in finding a fix. Aug 26 18:20:19 neclimdul, and then wait for a few days. Checks the wiki for tips on how use multiple core processors or save some disk space Aug 26 18:20:56 neclimdul, use a pastebin Aug 26 18:21:21 abstract, getting lot of undefined reference to `QAbstractSocket::*' errors Aug 26 18:21:56 pastebining log Aug 26 18:24:01 http://pastebin.com/d1898975 Aug 26 18:25:41 somebody knowing good X11 audio player with fat buttons? Aug 26 18:25:58 Is there a way to disable building qemu in mokomakefile? Aug 26 18:26:09 I don't want to go to the hassle of installing gcc 3.x Aug 26 18:26:32 what distro do you use? Aug 26 18:26:44 Ubuntu, but I'd assume it's a mokomakefile change Aug 26 18:27:07 uuh can't the qemu guys build with later gcc? Aug 26 18:27:08 no its not Aug 26 18:27:10 its quite simple Aug 26 18:27:17 just apt-get install gcc-3 Aug 26 18:27:27 Umm... but I don't want to Aug 26 18:27:31 lol Aug 26 18:27:32 Ghiottone: sometimes it helps asking. i just realized /home/moko/moko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/qt4/lib doesn't exist. still don't know why Aug 26 18:27:39 why not? the only reason is disk space? Aug 26 18:28:02 Partly that but mainly aesthetic reasons Aug 26 18:28:18 jgm: just don´t do make all? you can just make the openmoko-devel-image? Aug 26 18:28:19 dcordes: gcc 3 versus gcc 4 is a loong discussion. basically gcc4 is tight and fast, gcc3 is stable and reliable Aug 26 18:28:38 all good qualities in a... compiler Aug 26 18:29:00 and gcc4 works for amd64 :) Aug 26 18:29:06 meus: make openmoko-devel-image tries to build qemu, unfortunately Aug 26 18:29:16 aesthetics? aesthetics? there is no call for aesthetics in compiler land. its not supposed to be pretty. its supposed to compile, and then link. nothing pretty ever does. Aug 26 18:29:39 jgm: hmm ok, strange Aug 26 18:32:39 Okay think I've found a solution but waiting for bitbake to sort its files before confirming Aug 26 18:33:27 sorry to keep asking, but can anyone else run 'ipkg update' on the phone right now? Fails for me, every time Aug 26 18:33:54 oh gawd Aug 26 18:33:56 nm, ignore me please Aug 26 18:34:00 i can Aug 26 18:34:03 no problems. Aug 26 18:34:04 I was non-root... Aug 26 18:34:09 but then i have networking working Aug 26 18:34:18 eh? how can you be nonroot on the phone right now? Aug 26 18:34:21 adduser Aug 26 18:34:25 oh Aug 26 18:34:47 jadams: too smart for your own good you are Aug 26 18:35:03 sigh Aug 26 18:35:15 Okay yep you can skip it by adding a couple of lines to your local.conf: Aug 26 18:35:15 ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" Aug 26 18:35:15 ASSUME_PROVIDED += "qemu-native" Aug 26 18:35:56 jgm: qemu is part of the openembedded toolchain Aug 26 18:36:13 and required to build anything Aug 26 18:36:14 hrm...so installing openssh on the phone...I'm thinking 'ipkg remove dropbear && ipkg install openssh' should work and let me ssh right back in once the connection inevitably drops :) Aug 26 18:36:15 Okay guess I'll find out if it breaks things later on down the line then Aug 26 18:36:21 neclimdul, did the package qt4-x11-free compile? Aug 26 18:36:31 what user does the gui run on, by default? Aug 26 18:36:41 guaqua, root Aug 26 18:36:54 Ghiottone: this was the only error i saw pop up. how would I check? Aug 26 18:36:56 hmpph Aug 26 18:37:25 well, I killed dropbear...time to see if openssh works :) Aug 26 18:37:31 awesome Aug 26 18:38:01 if anyone's curious, 'ipkg remove dropbear -force-depends && ipkg install openssh' works fine if you've got ScaredyCat's repository Aug 26 18:38:33 jadams: put that in the wiki? Aug 26 18:38:46 meus: well, I'm not sure anymore Aug 26 18:38:57 jadams: oh why? Aug 26 18:39:07 no, seems to have failed Aug 26 18:39:08 meh Aug 26 18:40:56 meus: I had to do it manually from the phone...currently installing Aug 26 18:40:59 I've got no ssh at present Aug 26 18:42:07 neclimdul, try with make build-package-qt4-x11-free Aug 26 18:42:31 neclimdul, it may take several hours if it has not been done before Aug 26 18:42:37 ok Aug 26 18:43:35 neclimdul, I don't know if it will solve the problem, but that package is needed to make openmoko-devel-image. so you will have to do it anyway Aug 26 18:43:54 where on the wiki should I put something detailing the procedure I went through to get openssh running via the ipkg? Just tiny nuggets of info that people can find...is there a page for that, on installing applications? Aug 26 18:44:31 oh... following the wiki didn't mention doing that before openmoko-devel-image i don't think. that might have been my problem. Aug 26 18:45:28 hrm...so openssh isn't letting me log in with '' as the root password Aug 26 18:45:29 neclimdul, doing what? Aug 26 18:45:39 running make build-package-qt4-x11-free Aug 26 18:46:37 that should be executed as a dependency of openmoko-devel-image Aug 26 18:46:53 you should not have to do it manually Aug 26 18:47:17 ok, that's what i assumed. lets see what happens after bitbake does its thing Aug 26 18:48:59 hmm... ok... different errors this time Aug 26 18:50:07 http://pastebin.com/d30cd727f Aug 26 18:54:24 anyone know if the media player is worked on and how complete it is? Aug 26 18:55:07 ScaredyCat: don't get mad, but I've installed dropbear again. You can just execute a command this way: "ssh user@host 'command'" Aug 26 18:55:24 :-\ Aug 26 18:55:32 hehe.. Aug 26 18:55:40 didn;t opnssh work then? Aug 26 18:56:07 it worked, but wouldn't allow passwordless authentication Aug 26 18:56:13 so I had to ssh in as another user, then su Aug 26 18:57:42 did you use authorized_keys2 ? Aug 26 18:57:52 I don't mean that Aug 26 18:58:00 I mean I couldn't ssh root@phone and enter '' for the pw there Aug 26 18:58:15 I might switch back to openssh in a second, still running into little hassles Aug 26 19:03:50 jadams: you need to enter a blank password Aug 26 19:03:54 passwd root Aug 26 19:03:56 [enter] Aug 26 19:03:57 [enter] Aug 26 19:04:01 == no password Aug 26 19:04:16 torpor: I'm aware...I've done it Aug 26 19:04:23 openssh still denied access with no password Aug 26 19:04:31 try it and see if you get different results Aug 26 19:04:43 though now that I've reinstalled dropbear I can't seem to get my passwordless ssh running again...sigh Aug 26 19:04:55 (THAT time I meant authorized_keys) Aug 26 19:05:17 jadams: did you generate the ras keys ? Aug 26 19:05:22 rsa/dsa Aug 26 19:05:35 I generated an rsa key with dropbearkey Aug 26 19:05:36 restartd sshd (openssh) Aug 26 19:09:25 jadams, look into /etc/ssh/ssh_config if it's allowed Aug 26 19:12:52 jadams: a reboot should fix i all Aug 26 19:12:54 it Aug 26 19:13:08 I just removed dropbear and installed openssh Aug 26 19:13:11 neclimdul, sorry first time I see this error :( Aug 26 19:13:34 switching back to openssh Aug 26 19:13:47 ScaredyCat: ok, thanks...I'll reboot Aug 26 19:13:59 Ghiottone: yeah. its weird. at least i've got some direction now to try to fix it. Aug 26 19:18:30 ScaredyCat: yeah, restarted and it still won't let me log in with root and no password when using opensshd Aug 26 19:18:39 ohh .. Aug 26 19:18:42 odd even Aug 26 19:19:53 k, use the terminal, make sure you have /var/run/sshd Aug 26 19:20:13 isn't openssh configured by default to deny root login via ssh? Aug 26 19:20:19 permitrootlogin or so Aug 26 19:20:25 dunno, it's let me do it Aug 26 19:21:51 I just uninstalled dropbear, installed openssh, restarted sshd got an error re: dir above, created it, used passwd to create a root password rebooted ssh'd in no probs (without password, using key) Aug 26 19:22:32 then I just ssh'd to my webserver running 'ls -la' Aug 26 19:22:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Digital_gaming]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[USB_Networking]] [[Booting_from_SD]] [[User:Lokolb]] Aug 26 19:25:25 ScaredyCat: I have that dir...do I gen my root key on the phone, put it in /home//.ssh/authorized_keys, and ssh @ip ? Aug 26 19:25:44 jadams: did you su to root or?\ Aug 26 19:26:00 i presume you login as a user? Aug 26 19:26:25 the .pub key gets copied to the *target* system as authorized_keys[2] Aug 26 19:27:07 ScaredyCat: right, right... Aug 26 19:27:08 then: ssh myuser@0.0.0.0 'ls -la' Aug 26 19:27:23 nabend Aug 26 19:27:37 ScaredyCat: I guess my point was that it goes in /home/myuser/.ssh/authorized_keys, rather than /home/root/... Aug 26 19:27:46 yes Aug 26 19:27:52 the user you are sshing from Aug 26 19:28:05 their home dir + .ssh/ Aug 26 19:28:34 ScaredyCat: but I'll be sshing FROM root, TO jadams@target Aug 26 19:29:07 ok so you have a .pub key in your root .ssh dir on the phone. Aug 26 19:29:35 copy that to the home dir + .ssh of the user on the target system, call it authorized_keys Aug 26 19:29:55 ScaredyCat: great, working Aug 26 19:30:09 :) Aug 26 19:36:06 Wacky. http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6707 GSM bug. Aug 26 19:40:17 garr...from python, 'os' is undefined Aug 26 19:40:45 which makes 'os.system()' calls kinda tough Aug 26 19:41:31 SpeedEvil: so you can just call in to that bug to listen? Aug 26 19:41:45 ahh, os isn't preferred anymore anyway Aug 26 19:42:51 jadams: yes. Though I'd actually have more use for one with a serial output. Aug 26 19:43:10 same issue. 'subprocess' isn't defined Aug 26 19:43:51 I can't use network stuff in ruby on the phone, and I can't use system calls in python Aug 26 19:45:08 awk. Aug 26 19:45:11 :) Aug 26 19:46:29 python-subprocess is installable nowadays Aug 26 19:55:34 bye all Aug 26 20:09:05 ScaredyCat: alright, got python-curses xmms remote working. Aug 26 20:09:16 What's the proper way to wrap code in the wiki? Aug 26 20:09:23 cool ! Aug 26 20:10:41 not sure..usually lines start with a space Aug 26 20:10:57 like for the # ls blah Aug 26 20:11:10 I think just use
 tags
Aug 26 20:11:19  from memory of mediawikis past
Aug 26 20:11:29  sounds ike a better idea :)
Aug 26 20:12:37  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Python_ncurses
Aug 26 20:12:47  I just opened it in vim and character shifted to start the lines with spaces
Aug 26 20:13:45  if anyone wanted to play with it, it would take like ten seconds to modify it to work on your local machine  :)
Aug 26 20:14:55  that's a nice little app :)
Aug 26 20:15:57  hrm
Aug 26 20:16:02  ScaredyCat: it doesn't work from the terminal on the neo though
Aug 26 20:16:04  works ssh'ed in
Aug 26 20:16:34  :(
Aug 26 20:16:35  but starts to bitch about /home/jadams/.Xauthority, something about not writeable, once I actually hit 'c' or 'b' on the phone
Aug 26 20:16:59  X connection to localhost:10.0 broken
Aug 26 20:17:00  wtf
Aug 26 20:36:48  is there a kind of "clean"-command in monotone?
Aug 26 20:58:20  thomasg__: bitbake -c clean
Aug 26 20:59:06  Hm, it's looking like the modem takes some time to warm up (i.e. linux boots too fast), and this is why gsmd dies if started too soon...
Aug 26 21:03:41  test
Aug 26 21:03:45  yaha finally
Aug 26 21:11:59  Aha! sleep 120 in the init scripts :)
Aug 26 21:12:12  SpeedEvil: 120?
Aug 26 21:12:17  sleep?
Aug 26 21:12:21  SpeedEvil: isn't it a bit too much?
Aug 26 21:12:24  forget the 120 why sleep?
Aug 26 21:12:29 * cesarb will try to see what happens
Aug 26 21:12:58  alphaone, thx
Aug 26 21:14:08  lemme guess: quick hack at gsmd race? :]
Aug 26 21:14:23  eww.....
Aug 26 21:14:43  SpeedEvil: if it works, the real solution would be for gsmd to somehow detect it isn't ready yet and wait
Aug 26 21:14:47  gsmd should just retry until it's ready.
Aug 26 21:14:59 * cesarb waiting for the capacitors to drain, just to make things more repeatable
Aug 26 21:14:59  Yes, I know that :)
Aug 26 21:15:43  how do i open the keyboard to use the console on 2007.2?
Aug 26 21:15:53  Or turn on the gsm power earlier in boot, that might be even better?
Aug 26 21:16:38  mwester: the gsm power might have to be turned off later (for instance, if you are in an airplane, or just want to be sneaky)
Aug 26 21:16:46  mwester: and then you want to turn it on again...
Aug 26 21:16:57  For airplanes, we should have a 'pseudo turned off' mode.
Aug 26 21:17:07  Just to mess with The System!
Aug 26 21:17:16 * cesarb things doing /sys manipulations directly to turn power to parts of the phone on and off is evil... there should be a "powerd" to manage all that for you
Aug 26 21:17:18  Oo - very good point about the airplanes.  Is there a way to power it up with the radio off?
Aug 26 21:17:34  so you could say "sneaky mode" or "showoff mode" and it would manage all the power correctly for you
Aug 26 21:17:44  will the GTA02 in october be consumer-ready?
Aug 26 21:17:50 * mwester agrees with cesarb re: powerd
Aug 26 21:17:53  mwester, it powers up with the radio off, /etc/init.d/gsmd turns it on unconditionally ;-)
Aug 26 21:18:04  edistar, doubtful
Aug 26 21:18:09  A powerd could even notice the battery is running low and poweroff the radios for you...
Aug 26 21:18:09 * Bryce_Leo agrees with system
Aug 26 21:18:12  mjr: when will it be?
Aug 26 21:18:21  edistar, when it will be.
Aug 26 21:18:33  mjr: solid answer :P
Aug 26 21:18:44  how can i use the terminal in 2007.2?? Without on-screen-keyboard, it is quite not funny :(
Aug 26 21:19:50  riot blow into the mic on your neo 3 times
Aug 26 21:20:18  :)
Aug 26 21:20:36  SpeedEvil: it _almost_ worked :(
Aug 26 21:20:39  riot: then "wiggle" it from left to right while holding it perpendicular to the gound
Aug 26 21:20:42  juco: the MIDPath devs have been a little overloaded over the past few weeks, so it'll take a fair while longer
Aug 26 21:20:53  Bryce_Leo: great idea...
Aug 26 21:20:54  SpeedEvil: the sleep 120 seems to have allowed the gsmd to correctly talk to the modem, BUT
Aug 26 21:21:05  SpeedEvil: ** glibc detected *** gsmd: free(): invalid pointer: 0x0002e8a0 ***
Aug 26 21:21:05  riot: :-D when one can't be useful one can always be funny!
Aug 26 21:21:12  I just read that the scrollwheel disappeared in 2007.2?
Aug 26 21:21:16  will there be none?
Aug 26 21:21:17  Hmm.
Aug 26 21:21:17  SpeedEvil: it crashed :(
Aug 26 21:21:22  hp__, juco: chat to woglinde about integration of the various j2me things into openembedded and OM
Aug 26 21:21:26  riot: try launching input manager application under the 'All' section
Aug 26 21:21:30  SpeedEvil: a completely unrelated crash, for sure
Aug 26 21:21:42  wonderful. Somehow dropbear fscked up the ssh-keys, and now i can't revert its config, because the terminal does not work.
Aug 26 21:21:51  technil: it starts the calculator-tool... :(
Aug 26 21:22:13  riot: select it from the "all" list, not the utility list.
Aug 26 21:22:48  edistar: you can scroll by dragging now
Aug 26 21:23:05  SpeedEvil: want me to try booting again (with the "sleep 120" line just above the gsmd call in /etc/init.d/gsmd), just to be sure?
Aug 26 21:23:06  oi, that _does_ work..
Aug 26 21:23:20  (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Python_ncurses]]
Aug 26 21:23:21  strange bug, huh?
Aug 26 21:23:25  yes
Aug 26 21:23:28  cesarb: I don't know - I wasn't actually being serious.
Aug 26 21:23:42  anyone gotten on a uicmoc/uicmoc4-native_4.3.1.bb' failed error on a recent 2007.2 openmoko-devel-image build?
Aug 26 21:24:05  uh. that keyboard seems to not like xrandr ;)
Aug 26 21:24:05  SpeedEvil: but I was ;-)
Aug 26 21:24:39  Oh, BTW, does anyone have the bugzilla # for the "GSM 850 doesn't work at all" bug?
Aug 26 21:24:45  (if there is one)
Aug 26 21:25:35  technil: yeah, i have.  there is a bug about it
Aug 26 21:25:50  technil: #747: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=747
Aug 26 21:26:14  technil: if that is the same problem you are having
Aug 26 21:26:36  omg.. am i happy, vi knows hjkl to move around....!! the arrow-keys are missing!
Aug 26 21:27:26  oh noes! escape is missing, too :(((
Aug 26 21:28:13  Because I tested the phone yesterday with Claro's chip, and it worked... But a network scan showed only three of the four carriers. The missing one (Vivo, the CDMA carrier) uses AFAIK GSM850
Aug 26 21:28:25  And one friend of mine who is interested on the neo uses that carrier
Aug 26 21:28:45  riot: there is a- at least with 2007.1, an alternative keyboard.
Aug 26 21:29:10  the neo's gsm-module is quadband, so it supports gsm850. but afaik gta01 is not certified for it, so maybe gsm850 is disabled in the firmware
Aug 26 21:29:26  SpeedEvil: yeah, i've seen the matchbox-keyboard on 2007.2, too. Hmm.. wish i had it onscreen now..
Aug 26 21:30:18  riot: it should be there in 2007.2 as well, you have to hide the keyboard and then stroke right across the white keyboard box to select a different layout
Aug 26 21:31:10  thomasg__: there's also a strange "tri-band GSM antenna" thing on the FCC papers... can a so-called "triband" antenna work on all four bands?
Aug 26 21:31:10  cibomahto: thx, i'm gonna try that. Just the wm just crashed ;)
Aug 26 21:31:19 * cesarb doesn't know enough radio stuff to know the answer
Aug 26 21:32:34  cesarb, good question - as the gsm850 and the gsm900 bands are not as different, maybe it's capable in this ranges
Aug 26 21:33:34  yeah, wouldn't rule 850 out on that basis, but it does sound a bit weird
Aug 26 21:33:57  (the whole of the thing, what with trouble getting 850 signal and all)
Aug 26 21:34:02  yeah, wonderful!
Aug 26 21:35:27  huh? `cu -l /dev/ttyACM0`  => permission denied (I'm root...)
Aug 26 21:35:28  yay, got back inside :D
Aug 26 21:35:44  Kero: is gsmd running, or some other process accessing it?
Aug 26 21:36:23  Kero, chgrp the ttyACM0 to root (yes, I thought it was weird too)
Aug 26 21:36:31  riot: it's on my laptop, not on the neo; trying to erase flash to upload fresh rootfs
Aug 26 21:36:33 * mjr suspects that's some internal cu check
Aug 26 21:36:39  which would be stupid of cu
Aug 26 21:36:42  but happens
Aug 26 21:37:20  minicom says offline after printing uboot prompt.
Aug 26 21:37:47  anyone here working on python-bindings? I'm quite eager to start writing apps.. i'd just rather use python than c ;)
Aug 26 21:38:19  I'm running the latest openmoko snapshot on qemu, and where the other ones asked me to calibrate the screen this one is'nt. I can click on things but it's not calibrated at all and i can't find my way to the terminal to run the calibration program manually
Aug 26 21:38:25  mjr: as mortal user, it works.
Aug 26 21:38:53  Did they remove the calibration program as a run-once on start on purpose? It makes it completely useless under qemu
Aug 26 21:38:53  jords: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
Aug 26 21:39:19  jords: try ts-calibrate
Aug 26 21:39:24  riot, well, just start with basic pygtk, and tweak the ui with moko elements later, if your fingers are twitching ;)
Aug 26 21:39:41  jords: oh, underscore - not dash
Aug 26 21:39:53  riot: I can't get to a terminal, can't click on anything
Aug 26 21:39:56  jords: it's possible to get to a terminal and run ts_calibrate on qemu
Aug 26 21:40:04  and then for the quiz-q, how to disconnect cu ?
Aug 26 21:40:08  jords: the screen thinks it's rotated 90 degrees
Aug 26 21:40:14  mjr: hmm. Yah, right. The moko-elements are inherited from gtk, right?
Aug 26 21:40:38  jords: so if you click along the left edge, you'll eventually click on the apps menu (the middle tab)
Aug 26 21:40:53  and from there, you need to click on the terminal app
Aug 26 21:40:58  riot, yeah
Aug 26 21:41:02  I've done it several times
Aug 26 21:41:10  for starters, i'm going to make mokomakefile :>
Aug 26 21:41:17  ... wait for u-boot to set the neo to sleep after 30 sec (argh, I'm getting anoyed by that low timeout)
Aug 26 21:41:34 * cesarb thought of another possibility as to the GSM850 issue...
Aug 26 21:41:38  i've got to the apps menu before, but clicked on the calendar app not terminal :<
Aug 26 21:42:00  On the Razr you can chose between 850/1900, 900/1800, or both (quadband)
Aug 26 21:42:10  Which would translate in a command to the modem...
Aug 26 21:42:30  It's possible that the funcionality is there and working, just waiting for an AT command to enable the band ;-)
Aug 26 21:43:54  Vegar: Any hints on where to click to get the terminal app once in the apps menu?
Aug 26 21:44:16  last time I did it, the terminal app was just above the tabs
Aug 26 21:44:21  I click terminal on my zaurus
Aug 26 21:44:24  the orange icon thingy
Aug 26 21:44:24  k
Aug 26 21:44:29  so I just moved my mouse slightly to the right
Aug 26 21:44:36  (which translates to up)
Aug 26 21:45:09  k
Aug 26 21:45:40  gnf. openembedded's debian repository seems broken - can anyone confirm that?
Aug 26 21:46:18  oh, okok, the whole webserver seems down
Aug 26 21:46:25  ..slow
Aug 26 21:46:31  riot: what OE debian repo?
Aug 26 21:46:33  I was thinking, another method would be to extract the openmoko image and add ts_calibrate to the bootscript?
Aug 26 21:47:29  dcordes: openembedded has some nice repository for mandatory dev-utils-dependencies
Aug 26 21:47:59  jords: can't you ssh into your system using -X and execute the app remotely?
Aug 26 21:48:07  is linux-gta01_2.6.21.6 in openembedded broken at moment? can't build it for 2 days now
Aug 26 21:48:34  riot: ah now I know what you mean
Aug 26 21:48:39  mostly bug #746
Aug 26 21:48:45  I used that repo
Aug 26 21:48:55  but I install monotone manually
Aug 26 21:48:57  thomasg__: I rebuilt it some hours ago...
Aug 26 21:49:00  rest is in ubuntu feeds
Aug 26 21:49:00  dcordes: its just _very_ slow right now.. I'd rather not have that one in my sources.list for long
Aug 26 21:49:09  thomasg__: since the annoying microSD has been closed
Aug 26 21:49:17  s/microSD/microSD bug/
Aug 26 21:49:18  cesarb meant: thomasg__: since the annoying microSD bug has been closed
Aug 26 21:49:53  thats the problem (see my comment): http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=746
Aug 26 21:50:30  Vegar: Thanks, calibrated the screen now :D
Aug 26 21:50:36  \o/
Aug 26 21:50:37  congrats
Aug 26 21:50:43  and it's always changing: sometimes while do_prepatch, sometimes while do_compile.
Aug 26 21:52:06  thomasg__: always changing problems are not a good sign, especially if they change without a update... see the sig11 faq :P
Aug 26 21:56:06  Morning all, does anyone know what state u-boot leaves the CPU in when jumping to the kernel? speed-wise?
Aug 26 21:56:13  what's the alphabet for stroke recognizer?
Aug 26 22:02:12  blergh. new rootfs, reboot, then kernel stuck somewhere.
Aug 26 22:03:29  so... how to shut Neo down (I can remove the battery, sure, but power button does not work)
Aug 26 22:03:46  or reboot completely?
Aug 26 22:04:06  Kero: if the power button being held for >5s doesn't turn it off, you have to remove the battery ;-)
Aug 26 22:04:16  ok, will do
Aug 26 22:04:17  wow. is the complete dev-environment really 12gb+?
Aug 26 22:05:03  riot: yes.
Aug 26 22:05:04  riot: the kernel source code alone is more than 100M, so it's not that surprising
Aug 26 22:05:30  the mediaplayer does have no functionality at the moment
Aug 26 22:05:35  am i right?
Aug 26 22:06:00  so, thats the maximum size, with compiled objects et al?
Aug 26 22:06:13  i installed it, but it seems like one cant do anything with it
Aug 26 22:06:26  borg_: starling is quite simple yet. Or what mediaplayer were you referring to?
Aug 26 22:06:32  riot: No it can grow larger.
Aug 26 22:06:44  my machine is calculating the size of my build environment for 2 minutes now - if it is ready, I'll tell you how big it can get :)
Aug 26 22:06:50  openmoko-mediaplayer2
Aug 26 22:06:54  eek.
Aug 26 22:07:00  you guys are frightening me.
Aug 26 22:07:02  wats starling?
Aug 26 22:07:07  riot: that's the full size, with compiled objects, unpacked source, resulting packages/images, etc
Aug 26 22:07:13  s/wats/whats/
Aug 26 22:07:13  borg_ meant: whats starling?
Aug 26 22:07:37  riot: so it should only grow as you add more packages to be compiled (and sometimes some leftover junk adds a few megabytes every week)
Aug 26 22:07:53  why am i doing this..
Aug 26 22:07:58  ok, moko11 kernel fares better than moko10 with that rootfs :)  Some as-useless-as-all progressbar showing
Aug 26 22:08:14  riot: it's mostly hundreds of thousands of tiny files, with a few large ones thrown in the mix
Aug 26 22:08:53  (mm, noise)
Aug 26 22:09:28  and there you go, "please wait" *after* the progressbar. told you they were useless :P
Aug 26 22:10:12  Kero: usplash and similars are just to not frighten the newbies with huge amounts of very tiny text saying strange incantations in ancient languages
Aug 26 22:10:13  progressbars..hmm.. aren't they patented? *scnr*
Aug 26 22:10:29  newbies? on P1 ?
Aug 26 22:10:41  ...still calculating...
Aug 26 22:10:47  Kero: remember that the same code will be used on p2...
Aug 26 22:11:02  in... october?
Aug 26 22:11:30  there must be better things to fix right now :)
Aug 26 22:11:41  riot: starling looks as broken as openmoko-mediaplayer2 :)
Aug 26 22:13:39  there goes "make setup" ... kills my freespace.
Aug 26 22:14:58  riot: "make setup" uses only a few hundred megabytes
Aug 26 22:15:25 * Kero goes to sleep
Aug 26 22:15:47  cesarb: guessed so.
Aug 26 22:16:03  http://pastebin.com/m24f7552 <--trying to install pygtk on the neo.  Anyone had any luck?
Aug 26 22:16:51  % du -sch /home/moko
Aug 26 22:16:51  31G     /home/moko
Aug 26 22:17:08  time for a clean up :)
Aug 26 22:17:52  python-pygtk installed, but not python-pygtk-dev
Aug 26 22:17:59  shouldn't python-pygtk be enough though??
Aug 26 22:18:02  eek. No way i'm gonna pack that much stuff onto my notebook.
Aug 26 22:18:06  I still get nothing when I 'import pygtk'
Aug 26 22:18:21  jadams: i'm trying
Aug 26 22:19:28  jadams: you shouldn't need the -dev package imho
Aug 26 22:19:59  riot: I wouldn't think so
Aug 26 22:20:09  I just couldn't import pygtk after isntalling the first one
Aug 26 22:20:36  argh
Aug 26 22:20:42  I'm down to 5MB free on / though
Aug 26 22:20:53  riot, with rm_work you can reduce the size on about 15 gb, but I'd not recommend less space
Aug 26 22:21:33  thomasg__: yeah, i do have enough, still i'm gonna export that mass to a portable hdd next month.. (i can has more money, plz?!)
Aug 26 22:22:09  well, hdd's are not that expensive today :)
Aug 26 22:23:10  thomasg__: true. I'm just aiming for two 500gb disks, which becomes a bit expensive again..
Aug 26 22:23:13  250gb sata, 2.5" about $150
Aug 26 22:23:14  I'm playing with python-evas while I wait to see what's up w/ pygtk
Aug 26 22:23:23  assuming I don't run out of hdd
Aug 26 22:24:15  garr, can't ipkg install python-evas either
Aug 26 22:24:22  rwhitby: how about separating flash-neo-local into two targets, flash-neo-kernel-local and flash-neo-rootfs-local? this way it would be easy to reflash only the rootfs, when you know the kernel didn't change
Aug 26 22:25:42  hmm.. make setup fails here
Aug 26 22:26:09  guess i have some permission-problem
Aug 26 22:26:29  uh, oh. build-env on vfat..FOO!!
Aug 26 22:29:18  Does anyone build that also has bash_completion loaded?
Aug 26 22:30:31 * ScaredyCat giggles
Aug 26 22:30:32  riot: did you try python-pygtk?
Aug 26 22:30:34  root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install asterisk
Aug 26 22:30:40  ScaredyCat: omfgomfgomfg
Aug 26 22:30:41  :)
Aug 26 22:30:51  wow. pygtk really crams the memory. i have a rather clean 2007.2 here, installed python-pygtk and python-pygtk-dev.. now theres about 3 megs left
Aug 26 22:31:02  you got python-pygtk-dev installed?
Aug 26 22:31:05  why did mine fail?
Aug 26 22:31:09  can you at least import pygtk now?
Aug 26 22:31:12  jadams: i'm still trying
Aug 26 22:31:16  kk, cool
Aug 26 22:31:45  omg, so many useless dependencies
Aug 26 22:31:50 * CM yawns and waves
Aug 26 22:31:58  oh, oh no.. just updates, as it seems
Aug 26 22:32:02  cups!? wtf
Aug 26 22:32:14  :)
Aug 26 22:32:29  i can has a pbx in my neo?
Aug 26 22:32:51  ScaredyCat: please ask correctly: CAN I HAZ PBX ON PHONE?
Aug 26 22:32:53  :-)
Aug 26 22:33:06  ohh, and I forgot the HAI in front. :)
Aug 26 22:33:15  sry frgot caps
Aug 26 22:33:47  +KTHXBAI
Aug 26 22:33:52  RIGHT!
Aug 26 22:34:09  ScaredyCat: My makefile complains on pysqlite2 and sqlite3 now, but I have both installed. What changed this weekend?
Aug 26 22:34:14  but a working sip solution on the phone should be nice for gta02
Aug 26 22:34:20  ixs!
Aug 26 22:34:42  riot!
Aug 26 22:34:46  du hier?
Aug 26 22:34:56  I CAN!! I CAN
Aug 26 22:34:57  ScaredyCat: Ah, nice repo you have. :-D
Aug 26 22:34:58  fic-gta01:~$ asterisk -vvvvc
Aug 26 22:34:58  Asterisk 1.4.11, Copyright (C) 1999 - 2007 Digium, Inc. and others
Aug 26 22:35:00  yo.
Aug 26 22:35:09  ScaredyCat: crazy!
Aug 26 22:35:13  :D
Aug 26 22:35:19  I know, fun eh!
Aug 26 22:35:24  ScaredyCat: Now bring up openoffice!
Aug 26 22:35:28  ICANHASMOREFLASH??
Aug 26 22:35:31  lol
Aug 26 22:35:34  but asterisk is somewhot overblown IMHO.
Aug 26 22:35:40  yes
Aug 26 22:35:45  riot: HAI! HERE YOU HAZ MICROSD-CARD!
Aug 26 22:35:45  Or google-earth, on qemu.
Aug 26 22:35:47  I'd rather prefer a working gsmd
Aug 26 22:36:00  riot: BUT I HAVE EATEN IT!
Aug 26 22:36:11  CM: dunno, my build last night was ok... not done another today...
Aug 26 22:36:52  HAVE EATED IT is the correct phrase, i believe
Aug 26 22:37:00  HAZ
Aug 26 22:38:12  ScaredyCat: I think you might be right...
Aug 26 22:39:15  jadams: ipkg install python-pygtk-dev
Aug 26 22:39:18  jadams: works for me
Aug 26 22:40:10  at least import doesn't output any errors.. print pygtk.__doc__ still leads to "name 'pygtk' is not defined"
Aug 26 22:40:32  riot: can you import pygtk and import gtk ?
Aug 26 22:40:54  I installed python-pygtk1.2 and -dev and I can import pygtk, but still can't import gtk
Aug 26 22:41:30  gnf. no module named cairo
Aug 26 22:42:11  riot: but what if you just 'import gtk' ?
Aug 26 22:42:20  same. i'm installing cairo right now
Aug 26 22:42:20  that seems to be the one that's killing me
Aug 26 22:42:28  hrm, I don't get that
Aug 26 22:42:35  hmm.
Aug 26 22:43:30  that package didn't add anything to python's site-packages
Aug 26 22:45:11  installed size=0.. funny
Aug 26 22:45:53  hah!
Aug 26 22:46:13  install python-pygtk-dev python-pycairo and you're set.
Aug 26 22:46:29  wtf?  reboot: command not found
Aug 26 22:46:30  just got a gtkWarning: couldn't open display, because i'm remote without -X ;D
Aug 26 22:46:46  shutdown -r now
Aug 26 22:46:53  ahh
Aug 26 22:47:02  shutdown: not found
Aug 26 22:47:03  wow
Aug 26 22:47:27  yep, with -X, i can fully import gtk
Aug 26 22:47:48  I need to reinstall rootfs I suppose...what rootfs did you start with?
Aug 26 22:47:57  this is crazy...no shutdown
Aug 26 22:48:13  uh. took some 2007.2 images 4 days ago
Aug 26 22:48:19  k
Aug 26 22:48:25  i'm too lazy and run out of hd-space to build my own
Aug 26 22:48:40  oh I know what happened
Aug 26 22:48:41  does openmoko support x forwarding in ssh?
Aug 26 22:48:43  the whole problem
Aug 26 22:48:46  dcordes: yes
Aug 26 22:48:51  dcordes: both directions :D
Aug 26 22:48:54  I'm sshed in as a non-root user, and some paths aren't in my environment I'm sure
Aug 26 22:49:03  hence no shutdown
Aug 26 22:49:06  and hence no ldconfig
Aug 26 22:49:12  riot: in angstrom it doesn't - well let me try
Aug 26 22:49:17  maybe that's sync in oe yet
Aug 26 22:49:40  didn't try long time on my zaurus
Aug 26 22:50:28  dcordes: i'm doing it. You can read about it some minutes ago ;)
Aug 26 22:50:42  damn nice!
Aug 26 22:50:44  dcordes: import gtk in python already asks for some x-environment
Aug 26 22:50:45  it is working
Aug 26 22:50:57  yes, it's quite nice to have :D
Aug 26 22:51:05  pidgin looks funny with the moko ui
Aug 26 22:52:16  riot: ok, got my root login working with keys, getting the pygtk stuff going
Aug 26 22:52:20  thanks for the help btw
Aug 26 22:52:36  jadams: evas frightens me. I tried the enlightenment-wm again, today.. still a bag'o'fleas'n'bugs. No way, i'm gonna try more of their software ;)
Aug 26 22:53:13  jadams: i'd really love to have pygame :)
Aug 26 22:53:29  riot: meh, I've loved e since the old days.  e17 isn't beta or anything, so bugs are going to be in it.  used e16?
Aug 26 22:54:06  GARR
Aug 26 22:54:07  jadams: uh. i dunno. was on my workstation, which is right now... quite... unfit (i'm running badblocks on my os-hdd)
Aug 26 22:54:09  NO SPACE LEFT ON DEVICE
Aug 26 22:54:25  jadams: you ought to swap out less used stuff to your card ;)
Aug 26 22:54:26  riot: oh don't speak of badblocks
Aug 26 22:54:31  my whole system hd is a badblock
Aug 26 22:54:49  dcordes: its a maxtor. They popped out of /dev/null...!! fu**ing crap.
Aug 26 22:55:15  Mine is an old samsung which has gone through harsh stunt tests
Aug 26 22:55:25  Hate that stupid (&"!§ corp. And i'm never going to buy seagate again, either (as they bought that b0rked company)
Aug 26 22:55:55  to think: maxtor sold "refurbished" disks on the retail-market here in .de... LOLS?!?!
Aug 26 22:56:16  heh I had a maxtor bought in de few years ago
Aug 26 22:56:31  it did it like half a year
Aug 26 22:56:42  how do I add a directory to my libs path?
Aug 26 22:56:44  then was completely broken
Aug 26 22:56:52  ldconfig-related
Aug 26 22:56:56  right?
Aug 26 22:57:15  technil: I read your addition to bug 747, i think we are having different issues.
Aug 26 22:57:47  riot: can ssh also transport audio so one could make phone calls over it?
Aug 26 22:57:57  dcordes: d'oh. i don't think so!
Aug 26 22:58:37  dcordes: it isn't really realtime-capable.
Aug 26 22:58:53  otoh.. hmmm.. should be possible to tunnel it.
Aug 26 22:59:00  riot: refurbished as in new electronic new platters old case?
Aug 26 22:59:10  ixs: i _don't_ want to know.
Aug 26 22:59:10  that should be okay, as long as it's a bit cheaper
Aug 26 22:59:48  ixs: if you refurbish crap to be new crap, whats okay with that?
Aug 26 23:00:00  lol
Aug 26 23:00:16  riot: uhh? they sold them as new?
Aug 26 23:00:31  ixs: yes, tagged as "refurbished".. maybe 5% cheaper.
Aug 26 23:00:47  obviously I got one of those
Aug 26 23:00:59  my maxtor was the worst hdd ever
Aug 26 23:01:13  probably drives where the geometry just failed - and they probably readjusted it. Possibly the refurbished are more stable than really new maxtors, because of that...
Aug 26 23:01:26  speaking of hdds
Aug 26 23:01:44  which modules do I need in order to mount a usb hdd?
Aug 26 23:01:51  only usb-storage?
Aug 26 23:02:04  i DO suspect, that there aren't real defect blocks on my maxtor, just the alignment gone totally weird in some central areas.
Aug 26 23:02:40  Nope.
Aug 26 23:02:54  The alignment on modern (>60M) drives is built into the platters.
Aug 26 23:03:03  riot: mhm. If they are tagged as refurbished, I think that's okay. People know what to expect then.
Aug 26 23:03:15  Nobody uses external references anymore, it's all laid down at the factory.
Aug 26 23:03:17  ixs: true. Refurbished Crap.
Aug 26 23:03:46  SpeedEvil: yeah, exactly what i meant. They probably just didn't do it very well. The drive never got any shocks or excessive heat.
Aug 26 23:03:54  riot: nah, refurbished does not mean crap necessarily...
Aug 26 23:03:56  And i have already used its full capacity.
Aug 26 23:04:02  could be that they just recycled parts.
Aug 26 23:04:10  ixs: you won't change my opinion on that matter ;P
Aug 26 23:04:17  that's okay.
Aug 26 23:04:26  it's maxtor - it's crap
Aug 26 23:04:53  that we can agree on
Aug 26 23:04:57  (now: it's seagate - it's crap)
Aug 26 23:05:27  riot: mhm, with that I'd disagree. Past experience shows that seagate does fare pretty well in our datacenter. 
Aug 26 23:05:48  IME, there isn't a big difference that's consistent across all models of a brand.
Aug 26 23:06:02  So saying maxtor >seagate is hard. for example.
Aug 26 23:06:18  And in any case, no hard drive is reliable enough that it doesn't need backed up if you care about the data
Aug 26 23:06:33 <__Ace__> when I poll from /input/event1 and keep touching at the same place, I get values +-4
Aug 26 23:06:41 <__Ace__> why and how to calibrate this?
Aug 26 23:07:44  SpeedEvil: like I said, past experience. And our sample size is limited in fact...
Aug 26 23:08:42 * CM gives up on the makefile for tonight
Aug 26 23:09:22 <__Ace__> EV_ABS
Aug 26 23:16:43  can somebody help me with my usb hdd now?
Aug 26 23:17:35  It doesn't get a /dev :'(
Aug 26 23:21:04  where were the 2007.2 screenshots?
Aug 26 23:22:18  you can also see my famous youtube video :D
Aug 26 23:23:01  dcordes: just wanna show 2007.2 to a friend that's asking about it
Aug 26 23:23:36  jadams: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nSJo07MsZM but it is not sharp and not on a neo :)
Aug 26 23:23:53  yay. the default-gtk-buttons already look moko-style :D
Aug 26 23:25:20  (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Repositories]] [[Python_ncurses]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
Aug 26 23:26:14  ixs: I'm not disagreeing with you - just that it probably varies significantly per model.
Aug 26 23:28:08  sigh, ran out of space on rootfs again.  I need a way to tell it to install ipkg stuff on the sd card
Aug 26 23:28:36   -d
Aug 26 23:31:49  hmmm. Is it advisable to keep access to the card to a minimum, because of energy-issues? in other words: does the sd-card-system eat lots of power?
Aug 26 23:32:15  (i had a series60 phone where installing apps to the mmc-card reduced battery-life by 50%..!)
Aug 26 23:33:09  riot: it will use more power. But not very much more.
Aug 26 23:33:19  The phone at the moment uses insane amounts.
Aug 26 23:33:49  SpeedEvil: is there any /proc/acpi/battery-like information available to watch the amount it uses?
Aug 26 23:34:12  No.
Aug 26 23:35:06  There's some interesting info in /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/
Aug 26 23:38:05  Not really.
Aug 26 23:38:13  Most of it is read-only reports of the settings
Aug 26 23:38:24  the only really interesting ones are battvolt
Aug 26 23:38:27  and chgcur
Aug 26 23:38:41  but chgcur is not affected predictably by discharge
Aug 26 23:40:19  whats the nominal battery voltage, when fully charged?
Aug 26 23:40:57  4200mV
Aug 26 23:41:32  thx
Aug 26 23:47:29  4200=100% 3600=10% 2800=0%
Aug 26 23:49:45  I have a file with readouts every 10s of the voltage file as it discharged, then fully charged
Aug 26 23:50:02  It took 3.8 hours to recharge
Aug 26 23:50:30  plausible.
Aug 26 23:50:43  Hmm, so what was the trick to getting pygtk going?
Aug 26 23:51:24  hads: riot got it.  he said 'ipkg install python-pygtk-dev python-pycairo'
Aug 26 23:51:34  I'm reflashing the device because I ran out of space on rootfs
Aug 26 23:52:12  Seems like odd packages to install just to get pygtk going.
Aug 26 23:52:20  hads: it installs cups!
Aug 26 23:52:20  hads: yet it works.
Aug 26 23:52:28  yes, weird..!
Aug 26 23:52:29  yeah, it ate up all my space
Aug 26 23:52:39  now, why.. now you can print with your neo :)
Aug 26 23:53:05  (and see, cups is now developed largely by apple computers inc. ....)
Aug 26 23:54:42  That's wrong. There must be some sort of packaging issue there.
Aug 26 23:56:49  hads: weird dependencies, that is
Aug 26 23:57:34  You shouldn't need the -dev package and all the -dev dependancies to run pygtk
Aug 26 23:57:58  hads: sure, but the non-dev-package is b0rked.
Aug 26 23:58:04  Have you tried it?
Aug 26 23:58:43  riot: Yes, that's what I'm saying, a packaging issue.
Aug 26 23:59:12  You are correct thatinstalling the -dev package makes it work, but that shouldn't be the case, so it's a bug.
Aug 26 23:59:46  should be fairly trivial to fix
Aug 27 00:00:40  morning
Aug 27 00:01:03  ajmitch: Yeah, I'm just trying to track down the package(s) that it pulled in that made it work.
Aug 27 00:02:02  morning rwhitby 
Aug 27 00:03:05  hads: yeah, I'm just trying to find where the packaging info is held in the build tree :)
Aug 27 00:04:05  It's around and about by the looks, I was trying to figure out the python stuff the other day :) the standard lib stuff seems to be in openembedded/contrib/python/
Aug 27 00:04:07  openembedded/packages/python/python-pygtk_2.10.4.bb looks like a candidate
Aug 27 00:04:22  The other stuff is in bb files in openembedded/packages/python
Aug 27 00:04:25 * ajmitch has to head out now, will look at it later
Aug 27 00:04:58 * hads waves
Aug 27 00:05:01  ScaredyCat: we should collaborate on a "openmoko-packages.bb" which lists all the additional packages that people request from OE for the third-party feeds - then we can just autobuild that and have the feeds always up to date.  See openembedded/packages/meta/slugos-packages.bb for an example.
Aug 27 00:14:18  openmoko: 03rwhitby * r153 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Split the flash-neo-official and flash-neo-local targets into -kernel- and -rootfs- subtargets, so you can flash them independently if desired.
Aug 27 00:14:22  so yeah, any suggestions on filesystems for the sd card?  I can't copy over ext2 directories that have symlinks in them right now
Aug 27 00:14:26  cesarb: that one's for you
Aug 27 00:14:51  rwhitby: thanks
Aug 27 00:15:44  also, any suggestions on an image viewer package?
Aug 27 00:16:05  jadams mtpaint has a viewer mode
Aug 27 00:16:10  I have to use it to show my girlfriend a bunch of pictures of these little kittens that we went to see last week, so she'll like the phone by connection
Aug 27 00:16:18 * rwhitby completes the morning build on 32-bit debian etch and 32-bit xubuntu 7.04
Aug 27 00:16:19  though it's two-window, which isn't really optimal.
Aug 27 00:16:43  I saw one of the e-libs based photo browsers on some demo from taiwan
Aug 27 00:17:09  jadams: why can't you copy over ext2 directories that have symlinks in them?
Aug 27 00:17:29  SpeedEvil: I think the filesystem doesn't support symlinks?
Aug 27 00:17:35  the one on the SD card
Aug 27 00:17:39  Oh - right.
Aug 27 00:17:45  I thought you meant ext2 diddn't.
Aug 27 00:17:51  oh no  :)
Aug 27 00:17:58  ext2 should work fine
Aug 27 00:18:06  the card has its own internal wear-leveling
Aug 27 00:18:08  however.
Aug 27 00:18:14  ok, I'll format the other card ext2 then
Aug 27 00:18:41  as you may have discovered, writing large amounts of data to the card may cause the neo to stop using the SD
Aug 27 00:18:49  SpeedEvil: fixed today
Aug 27 00:18:49  freshly flashed rootfs, trying to get python-pygtk up and going all proper
Aug 27 00:18:56  SpeedEvil: hadn't even noticed it
Aug 27 00:18:56  cesarb: :)
Aug 27 00:19:03  but I DID see the fix come through
Aug 27 00:19:03  yeah, I use ext2 on all my portable media (everything I have runs Linux) without issues
Aug 27 00:19:06  SpeedEvil: earlier today the bug was closed, with a patch to the kernel
Aug 27 00:19:33  SpeedEvil: so, all he has to do is to force-rebuild the kernel and flash it
Aug 27 00:19:49  Anyone have a relatively clean isntalled and want to paste the contents of a `ipkg list_installed | grep -- -dev` for me?
Aug 27 00:20:17  hads: I assume 2007.1 is useless
Aug 27 00:20:32  Yeah, .2 but thanks.
Aug 27 00:20:40  (bitbake doesn't seem to get that a new patch was added to the kernel, so you need the force-rebuild step)
Aug 27 00:20:49 * linux_galore . o 0 (just needs to find a digicam that runs Linux so he can get rid of fat32 forever)
Aug 27 00:22:38  openmoko: 03mickey * r2833 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/ (gtkpaned gtkrc gtkscrollbar): add at least basic reasonable sizing for gtkpaned and gtkscrollbar. still needs proper theming
Aug 27 00:22:44  linux_galore: just get something that speaks PTP so gtkam can talk to it :)
Aug 27 00:22:58  then it doesn't matter how the internal storage is formatted
Aug 27 00:23:16  even if the internal storage is a 2G MSDOGfs
Aug 27 00:23:26  ckuethe: most modern digicam now have removable sd storage
Aug 27 00:23:39  i know
Aug 27 00:23:42  like my canon
Aug 27 00:24:09 * hhf423 does the ipkg update dance
Aug 27 00:24:27  Its not a big issue for me , its more a "I dont want to pay the Microsoft fat32 tax"
Aug 27 00:24:51  there is a fat32 tax?
Aug 27 00:25:08  not that i know of
Aug 27 00:25:12  yes, if you make a device that uses fat32 you have to pay a license fee
Aug 27 00:25:25  not enough for me to notice
Aug 27 00:25:36  does anyone know what the Neo startup sound is called?
Aug 27 00:26:13  hhf423: ? you trying to find the file
Aug 27 00:26:32  is it /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/startup_openmoko.mp3 ?
Aug 27 00:27:31   hhf423: you can edit it at /etc/pulseaudio/session or some such
Aug 27 00:28:17  jadams/riot: It appears to be python-pycairo and python-pygobject that are needed to get pygtk going, all those dev packages aren't needed AFAICT
Aug 27 00:29:48  jadams: hmmm
Aug 27 00:30:00  did you find it?
Aug 27 00:30:08 * hads suddenly wishes ipkg kept track of automatically installed packages
Aug 27 00:30:16  I'm in the middle of an ipkg update, and I stupidly didn't start screen up when I started this session
Aug 27 00:30:20  don't even have screen on it yet I bet
Aug 27 00:30:24  cesarb: whoever updated the kernel patches should have bumped the PR in the bitbake file, or changed the SRCREV to the new baseline (when that stuff gets implemented)
Aug 27 00:30:29  I want the Neo to not make a sound which wakes up the whole house when I boot it in the middle of the night
Aug 27 00:30:39  hhf423: did you not find that file?
Aug 27 00:30:45  hhf423: Check planet
Aug 27 00:30:53  hhf423: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/openmoko/stopping-the-openmoko-startup-sound.html
Aug 27 00:30:55  the path might have been off a little, but it's somewhere in /etc/pulse*
Aug 27 00:30:56  jadams: I found the file and renamed it
Aug 27 00:31:04  rwhitby: oh, thanks
Aug 27 00:31:49  jadams: /etc/pulse/session, yes
Aug 27 00:32:57  everybody do the cups-on-neo dance
Aug 27 00:33:26  and why the heck did it install libxinerama?
Aug 27 00:35:07  jadams: why, what gives?
Aug 27 00:35:30 * hhf423 tries gprs again
Aug 27 00:36:01  hhf423: gotten it working yet?  I had it going a couple of days ago
Aug 27 00:36:10  but I never actually routed traffic through it
Aug 27 00:36:18  still, I had an IP address and it seemed all hunky dory
Aug 27 00:36:26 * hhf423 gets a lot of "LCP terminated by peer" when starting up gprs
Aug 27 00:36:43  hhf423: ahh, I had that...
Aug 27 00:36:48  really should have documented what I did
Aug 27 00:36:49  oh yeah
Aug 27 00:36:53  umm
Aug 27 00:36:54  jadams: yes, I got it up running and could ping the internets :-)
Aug 27 00:36:55  no, no clue...dammit
Aug 27 00:37:12  like after the tenth atteps with alwqys the same script
Aug 27 00:37:25  riot: now, I installed those packages and I still get no such package pygtk
Aug 27 00:37:58  jadams: Did you see my last comment to you?
Aug 27 00:38:18  hads: yeah, but I've even got the whole dang thing installed and I can't 'import gtk'
Aug 27 00:38:22  but riot could
Aug 27 00:39:30  Well python-pygobject provides /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pygtk.py and python-pygtk provides /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/
Aug 27 00:39:41  where is gtk.py?
Aug 27 00:39:59  It's not.
Aug 27 00:40:08  then how can I 'import gtk' ?
Aug 27 00:40:52  It's a C module.
Aug 27 00:41:33  hads: well, import gtk still doesn't work for me
Aug 27 00:41:45  I'm flashing it again because I was down to 4MB from all the crap that got installed
Aug 27 00:42:17  still trying to get the 'from new neo to pygtk devenv' routine down
Aug 27 00:43:32  but for now, burgers are a-grilling (or finishing), so I brb
Aug 27 00:43:43  Hello
Aug 27 00:44:03  i saw a video where someone had firefox and openoffice running.
Aug 27 00:44:20 * rwhitby wonders whether rootfs on sd card will be stable with the new kernel, giving jadams|beef more room to install packages
Aug 27 00:44:59  I wants v2 now! lol
Aug 27 00:45:13  cell + voip = Teh Winz
Aug 27 00:46:36  i don't get voip personally
Aug 27 00:46:57  don't understand it?
Aug 27 00:47:10  don't understand the appeal
Aug 27 00:47:15  I want it because it runs over my internet connection - not reliant on the cell network.
Aug 27 00:47:21  I had 3 calls in 12 minutes drop tonight
Aug 27 00:47:34  and I'm 6 blocks from the 35W bridge in Minneapolis - so i'm not in a dead zone.
Aug 27 00:47:42  matthew_: the appeal is usually cost.
Aug 27 00:47:49  cost + reliability
Aug 27 00:47:58  having a second network to fall back on when the cell network goes to crap
Aug 27 00:48:19  how is a cell internet connection going to be more reliable than a cell network connection?
Aug 27 00:49:34  do you have problems with cell network service where you live
Aug 27 00:49:48  i don't get the cost appeal either.  phone prices keep going down.  the demand is much greater and growing monthly.
Aug 27 00:50:10  amirikin: yes, it pretty much doesn't exist where I live.
Aug 27 00:50:46  what product are you talking about
Aug 27 00:50:54  matthew_: price movements vary dramatically depending on where you live in the world.
Aug 27 00:51:21  amirikin: phone service
Aug 27 00:51:28  matthew_: if one already has inet (say, naked dsl) you can avoid some monthly phone charges and calls are cheaper than the telcos (here anyway). plus the ability to have you number follow you to work
Aug 27 00:51:37  cell phones are horrid here in america
Aug 27 00:51:52  locked in for 1-2 years, no way out - in my case, degrading quality without moving
Aug 27 00:52:01  Q_Continuum: at least you can get some sort of "unlimited" GPRS in the US.
Aug 27 00:52:16  cheriff: what do you mean "follow you to work"?
Aug 27 00:52:39  for obscene rates...
Aug 27 00:52:59  and it's the consumers that choose to be locked in.  contract-free phones and pre-paid SIM cards are available - you just have to pay more for them.
Aug 27 00:53:15  "obscene" is relative.  Is it more than $2c per Kb ?
Aug 27 00:53:26  matthew_: i dont know the deatils, but some ppl at work have a voip account and their home phone and soft-phone at the office (or usb one) ring at the same time
Aug 27 00:53:30  (yes, Kb, not Mb)
Aug 27 00:53:49  i'm not locked in.  i was locked in for the first year only, now i'm month to month.
Aug 27 00:53:51  so one number gets them whereever they are
Aug 27 00:54:26  i live in arkansas and we have phone service out here i cant imagine where you would live that you would have terrible problems with it
Aug 27 00:54:47  cheriff: well, one number gets me wherever I am: my cell phone number.  i guess i'll just never get voip, no bother really.
Aug 27 00:55:11  rwhitby: The casual rate here (no plan) is $11.25 per MB :)
Aug 27 00:55:16  matthew_: heh, thats the other option some folks do. ditch everything but the cell :)
Aug 27 00:59:45  whos the best gprs provider in the us for this thing anyways
Aug 27 00:59:59  I'm using ATT
Aug 27 01:00:11  I doubt they are the 'best'
Aug 27 01:01:38  hads: get it working?
Aug 27 01:02:39 * hhf423 is now trying to upload a screenshot via gprs
Aug 27 01:02:47  ajmitch: Yeah, there's only one or two deps missing. I'm just doing a fresh install actually to confirm as ipkg doesn't keep track of automatically installed packages and I forgot to myself.
Aug 27 01:03:13  there's always the option of looking in qemu 
Aug 27 01:03:26  so by default u-boot leaves the control register in cop15 set such that the core is clocked off the memory clock...
Aug 27 01:03:41  ajmitch: Good point.
Aug 27 01:03:48  ooh, someone got abiword done for OpenMoko/Neo?
Aug 27 01:03:52  hads: already flashing? :)
Aug 27 01:04:00  ajmitch: Already done :)
Aug 27 01:04:04  heh
Aug 27 01:04:18  oh boy
Aug 27 01:04:29  ajmitch: I got my basic little pygtk T9 like input example going :)
Aug 27 01:04:39  this image was uploaded via GPRS: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/43f3de27ff18feb24056db00e9d8ecbd.png
Aug 27 01:05:03  hads: excellent, screenshot? :)
Aug 27 01:05:42  Needs to be less ugly first :)
Aug 27 01:06:24  yeah, I've got to get started on some more pygtk stuff
Aug 27 01:06:42  That's the first I've looked at it TBH.
Aug 27 01:07:15 * ajmitch has done a bit in the past year
Aug 27 01:09:22  The T9 like logic is excessively simple, I found it in a post to one of the python lists.
Aug 27 01:09:35 * ajmitch doesn't know of it
Aug 27 01:09:59  You know, the predictive text input stuff that's on Nokia's etc.
Aug 27 01:10:11  ah right
Aug 27 01:10:17  now that would be useful
Aug 27 01:10:29  I didn't see, is dasher ported?
Aug 27 01:10:55 * hads doesn't know
Aug 27 01:11:14  though it should only take a recompile to have the app, having it integrated would be useful
Aug 27 01:13:48 * hhf423 does not want to know how expensive gprs is with this plan...
Aug 27 01:16:51  hads: tried out a >2GB microSD card yet? 
Aug 27 01:17:19 * ajmitch heard that someone had one working, but I suspect they'll be a bit expensive still
Aug 27 01:17:30  ajmitch: Na, I haven't even got mine to mount yet :) I haven't looked at it yet at all though.
Aug 27 01:17:47  there was a bug fixed today in the kernel for that
Aug 27 01:17:58  Sweet
Aug 27 01:18:02  I should reflash the kernel & try it
Aug 27 01:18:24  though I think you can just upgrade the module package
Aug 27 01:18:50  ajmitch: you have to force rebuild the kernel, however
Aug 27 01:18:58  ajmitch: bitbake doesn't notice it has changed
Aug 27 01:19:36   cesarb: whoever updated the kernel patches should have bumped the PR in the bitbake file, or changed the SRCREV to the new baseline (when that stuff gets implemented)
Aug 27 01:19:49  cesarb: right, I'm currently running with a 2.6.22 kernel anyway
Aug 27 01:20:17  ajmitch: they also added the patch to the 2.6.22 kernel, and I think you still will need to force the rebuild
Aug 27 01:20:21  so I suspect it'll be a good idea to reflash with a 2.6.21 image & use the various standard builds
Aug 27 01:20:37  how do you select which kernel version to build, btw?
Aug 27 01:21:30  there are only truetypefonts in the system, right?
Aug 27 01:22:19  I think I need to erase my root partition
Aug 27 01:24:19  i wonder if you could program a neo to hook up to a car kind of like a race track computer
Aug 27 01:26:21  (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Talk:Manually_using_GPRS]]
Aug 27 01:26:21  heh, someone is selling an mp3 player with the name iBEAT BLAXX
Aug 27 01:26:25  http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/seriously%3F/a-letter-to-trekstor-re-racist-ibeat-blaxx-mp3-player-293515.php
Aug 27 01:27:48  im going to buy one and say its whole name whenever i refer to it
Aug 27 01:42:05 * hhf423 yawns
Aug 27 01:43:59  amirikin: http://freshmeat.net/projects/megatunix/
Aug 27 01:44:06 * SpeedEvil plans to port it.
Aug 27 01:44:15  using 'port' lightly.
Aug 27 01:46:01  i can see how something like that would be useful in rally
Aug 27 01:50:47  "I'm not drivin handsfree while talking on the phone. My phone drives, officer!"
Aug 27 01:53:14  amazing, at&t is letting loose their lawyers on the iphone unlockers
Aug 27 01:53:28  this is surprising why?
Aug 27 01:54:10  evil folks. How could they..!?
Aug 27 01:54:41  because its weekend :-)
Aug 27 01:54:45  it was
Aug 27 01:55:04  but, no, I am not really surprised
Aug 27 01:55:18  0x09f91102...
Aug 27 01:56:25  gd n8
Aug 27 01:56:33  good night
Aug 27 01:57:03 * hhf423 should also go back to bed
Aug 27 02:02:32 * hhf423 waves good night
Aug 27 02:37:14  anyone missing : moko/sources/JavaScriptCore_svn.webkit.org_.repository.webkit.trunk.__20070827.tar.gz ?
Aug 27 02:37:35  seems like that shouldn't exist yet in my timezone..
Aug 27 02:38:13  (EST 22:38)
Aug 27 02:39:00  nonetheless make openmoko-devel-image is looking for it...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 27 02:59:57 2007