**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 28 02:59:56 2007 Aug 28 02:59:58 the fact is that git is technically superior to most (if not all) other SCMs, but decisions are not made on a technical basis alone. Aug 28 03:00:05 defer_: can NIO do mmap? If not, there's no way Java can beat C for git Aug 28 03:00:18 i didn't say it could beat it Aug 28 03:00:19 (although at this point, I see no reason why OE couldn't move to git) Aug 28 03:00:40 On power use. Been playing with mp3 decoding with backlight off and playing with the clock speed and CPU voltage. Aug 28 03:00:44 Oddly - once CPU voltage is decreased below 1.5V, audio goes away - which is annoying. Aug 28 03:00:46 pjz: look what you started ;-) Aug 28 03:00:48 The CPU itself - at 100Mhz - seems stable to 1.2ish Aug 28 03:00:50 At 1.5V core - mp3 decoding used 1/2 CPU, and about 170mA (not playing loudly) Aug 28 03:00:52 Or around 7 hours mp3 Aug 28 03:01:11 cesarb: squeaky wheel gets the grease :) Aug 28 03:01:46 cesarb: doesn't have to beat it if it ends up more portable Aug 28 03:02:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Edmonton]] Aug 28 03:02:05 pjz: for some reason, any mention of any SCM on this channel causes a sudden burst of flames Aug 28 03:02:27 cesarb: what flames? I don't see many, other than a general dissatisfaction with the speed of mtn Aug 28 03:02:44 pjz: because any mention of any SCM will end up with people mentioning "mtn" and how it's slow and then the same arguments about all the popular SCMs are rehashed again Aug 28 03:03:19 clearly someone who knows how needs to mirror OE's mtn into git. And rwhitby could then make mokomakefile use the (faster) git repo to pull from Aug 28 03:03:33 cesarb: bah, those aren't flames, they're just a little smoke :) Aug 28 03:03:39 pjz: that would work for me Aug 28 03:03:40 (the discussion cycle seems to always be any SCM->mtn->git->svn) Aug 28 03:03:55 cesarb hopefully thats will get less as soon as we have our own mtn mirror. Aug 28 03:04:11 dude, bandwidth is SO not the problem Aug 28 03:04:25 I'm pulling peanuts for bandwidth but 100% cpu Aug 28 03:04:31 agree with pjz, bandwidth is not the issue... Aug 28 03:04:39 while mtn sits and does... something. I'm not sure what. Aug 28 03:04:46 (might be latency perhaps for me, no other way it would be THAT slow) Aug 28 03:05:08 did anyone check the mtn sources for sleep(random()) ? Aug 28 03:05:12 * cesarb never tried to look at the CPU usage, however, and linux lately is so fluid with its scheduling it's hard to notice if the CPU is pegged) Aug 28 03:05:16 cesarb: it's slow even when you have client and server on the same physical machine Aug 28 03:05:19 s/pegged)/pegged/ Aug 28 03:05:25 rwhitby: wow Aug 28 03:05:35 cesarb: I've got little telltales on my status bar Aug 28 03:05:38 rwhitby: btw, booting the neo right now Aug 28 03:06:06 cesarb: are you on 2.6.23? Aug 28 03:06:12 cesarb: originally so I could tell when firefox had decided to eat my machine (usually courtesy of a mess of javascript or flash) Aug 28 03:06:21 defer_: no, still 2.6.20-16-generic Aug 28 03:06:25 cesarb: can you modify /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm to log X11 output to /tmp/x11.log so you can see the status messages I got the dialer to print? Aug 28 03:06:39 oh, thought you were using the new scheduler Aug 28 03:06:47 rwhitby: I didn't apply the message silencing patch... just the other one Aug 28 03:07:23 nod Aug 28 03:08:43 rwhitby: this time, a single AT+COPS=0 after the AT+CFUN=1, and then silence (instead of the endless loop) Aug 28 03:08:54 * cesarb is without the SIM on it right now Aug 28 03:09:10 urk Aug 28 03:09:11 gunzip: Invalid magic Aug 28 03:09:14 from the neo Aug 28 03:09:18 anyone used gunzip on it yet? Aug 28 03:09:47 cesarb: does the COPS come before or after gsmd says that power up has succeeded? Aug 28 03:09:51 hexdump -C zip.zip|head Aug 28 03:09:55 is it a real zip2A/ Aug 28 03:10:26 cesarb: can you pastebin the gsm.log ? Aug 28 03:10:49 rwhitby: for some annoying reason, this damn log always get truncated in the beginning Aug 28 03:11:18 SpeedEvil: ehh, bingo, corrupt download Aug 28 03:11:31 hm, it's only less(1) which is broken, nm Aug 28 03:12:07 wtf, busybox's POS head(1) doesn't accept +n and -n? Aug 28 03:13:09 rwhitby: I will have to poweroff and power on again, since I restarted gsmd which overwrote the log file instead of appending to it Aug 28 03:14:42 * rwhitby thinks that a phone with 128MB flash shouldn't use busybox crap Aug 28 03:14:58 rwhitby: mine has 64MB :( Aug 28 03:15:04 cesarb: do the x11.log at the same time Aug 28 03:15:55 rwhitby: that will have to wait the next boot, for obvious reasons ;-) (I will modify it this boot, but we will only see the results next one) Aug 28 03:18:16 rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/673067 Aug 28 03:19:36 gsmd should say something about power-up between the CFUN and COPS Aug 28 03:20:32 rwhitby: it does, after about a second or two, when I do it manually ('O' on libgsmd-tool -m shell) Aug 28 03:20:42 rwhitby: philosophical difference as to whether the OS should be on removable media or not Aug 28 03:21:02 * pjz thinks not. Though arguably the Neo's media isn't really 'removable' Aug 28 03:21:08 stupidly, I might add. Aug 28 03:21:14 pjz: a hard-disk drive is removable too Aug 28 03:21:47 cesarb: not the way an (micro)SD card is Aug 28 03:21:59 perhaps 'hotplug' is what I'm looking for Aug 28 03:22:04 rwhitby: if I type 'O' and then 'r' too fast on libgsmd-tool -m shell, it gets stuck too... if I wait a bit between the 'O' and the 'r', it works as expected Aug 28 03:22:18 pjz: perhaps what you are looking for is "surprise removal"? Aug 28 03:22:20 Ultimately there should be two general configurations available: one all on internal flash, for those who wish to swap cards with their multimedia data files, the other for those who wish a semi-permanent larger filesystem. Aug 28 03:22:30 cesarb: right - that's why I changed GSM_REGISTER_TIMEOUT in moko-dialer.c from 5 to 10 Aug 28 03:22:56 pjz: (the annoying situation when the OS isn't getting warned that the user is going to remove the USB drive like RIGHT NOW) Aug 28 03:23:10 (that's not in the patch yet, cause it's not the right solution but just a work-around that works) Aug 28 03:23:28 cesarb: sure, but also just: I want to switch out one USB full of music for another. If the base OS is on that same drive... uh... hrm Aug 28 03:23:43 rwhitby: is that seconds or miliseconds? Aug 28 03:23:47 cesarb: reboot the phone just to switch what albums I'm listening to? ick Aug 28 03:23:59 * rwhitby likes the way that the SD card slot on the Nokia N800 has a cover which notifies the kernel when it is removed, allowing the kernel to alert the user whether actually removing the card is a good idea or not Aug 28 03:24:11 cesarb: 5000 to 10000 Aug 28 03:24:14 That's awesome. Aug 28 03:24:20 * TimRiker hooks up his new NEO and finds that it does not boot. can't find init. Aug 28 03:24:33 Good - that means it's working! Aug 28 03:24:36 TimRiker: no rootfs on developer units Aug 28 03:24:46 TimRiker: did you read the wiki page pointed to by the "coaster" which came with it? Aug 28 03:24:54 "some assembly required" :-) Aug 28 03:25:00 rwhitby: that sounds like a good plan. but heck, I'd even go for software eject (though I'd want a uboot hack to force it if necessary!) Aug 28 03:25:00 cesarb: eep. not yet, no. :) Aug 28 03:25:10 TimRiker: go read it, it tells you the next step Aug 28 03:25:20 * TimRiker nods. Aug 28 03:25:23 You just need to flash a kernel and a filesystem - pretty easy. Aug 28 03:25:25 TimRiker: it's a cunning trick to make sure that every new user knows how to run dfu-util Aug 28 03:25:27 TimRiker: which would be to flash the 2007.2 snapshot kernel and rootfs Aug 28 03:26:01 rwhitby: I will try with the SIM to see what happens Aug 28 03:26:12 rwhitby: or is there any test you want me to try first? Aug 28 03:26:30 cesarb: recompile moko-dialer with the doubled timeout Aug 28 03:26:50 that log shows that the registration state patch is working correctly Aug 28 03:27:22 (i.e. it is waiting patiently, instead of saying "are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet, ..." Aug 28 03:31:46 * cesarb starts the rebuild Aug 28 03:31:54 Changed the value to 10000 Aug 28 03:37:26 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/clips/fun-with-the-iphones-accelerometer-293969.php Aug 28 03:40:55 TimRiker: btw -- welcome to the Club ;-) Aug 28 03:43:10 rwhitby: it's misbehaving exactly the same way, only twice as slow Aug 28 03:43:30 cesarb: are you restarting gsmd in /etc/matchbox/session? Aug 28 03:43:35 rwhitby: nope Aug 28 03:43:37 (I had to do that too) Aug 28 03:43:45 rwhitby: unless upstream decided to do that Aug 28 03:43:51 nope Aug 28 03:44:52 perhaps it should avoid sending the CFUN before the acks from all the other commands have been received... Aug 28 03:45:17 cesarb: that's what I suggest in the bug report Aug 28 03:45:20 no fun allowed around here! Aug 28 03:46:21 * cesarb adds /etc/init.d/gsmd stop, sleep 1, and /etc/init.d/gsmd start before openmoko-today on the file mentioned and reboots Aug 28 03:49:05 rwhitby: cool, I didn't know the signal meter on the status bar actually worked Aug 28 03:49:37 * cesarb will try now with a SIM Aug 28 03:49:49 cesarb: pastebin the log first Aug 28 03:51:03 rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/673091 Aug 28 03:51:56 cesarb: looks good Aug 28 03:52:02 bbiab (lunch) Aug 28 03:52:17 cesarb: thx! :) downloading and flashing still. Aug 28 03:53:14 TimRiker: welcome, and thanks for your irc bot work in the past Aug 28 03:54:41 Ah - *that* TimRiker! Aug 28 03:54:54 * mwester thought the nick was familiar Aug 28 03:56:55 great, now with the SIM I get the annoying "stuck at ATZ" again :( Aug 28 03:59:31 which only seems to be fixed with echo 0 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on and waiting a few seconds Aug 28 04:02:52 Hi, I see the spi driver in use is the gpio bitbanging one. why is the on-chip SPI controller bypassed? Aug 28 04:03:37 rwhitby: I had to echo 0, wait, echo 1, wait, and then start gsmd... looks like starting gsmd too soon with a SIM is also not good Aug 28 04:05:50 And it *vibrates*... no ring tone (but then, the neo doesn't seem to emit any sound at all... only the mic gets to work... looks like I have to play with the sound subsystem next) Aug 28 04:14:22 cesarb: so my patches improve your phone registration reliability Aug 28 04:14:23 ? Aug 28 04:14:41 TimRiker hi there.. youre the guy who sold the tuxscreen phones once? Aug 28 04:15:04 rwhitby: dunno... since it only changed when I added it to the session file, after the patches had already been applied Aug 28 04:15:43 rwhitby: and, with the SIM, it's still as flaky as it was before (even when doing things by hand, so your patch doesn't make a difference since the connection to gsmd was broken by me killing it) Aug 28 04:17:38 * cesarb thinks that, other than the "infinite +COPS=0 loop" issue, the real fix lies within gsmd itself, and is probably something simple but completely unrelated to what we were trying Aug 28 04:18:55 roh: Hi, i recompiled openmoko using gcc 4.1.2 (unfortunately not 4.2) as was suggested, but this did not solve the qtopia build error I was stuck on. Another user (Eric Johnson) suggested which file to modify in the bug report (#747), and I created a small patch to implement this. Thanks for the suggestions yesterday! Aug 28 04:19:47 cesarb: my patch is only for the infinite cops problem Aug 28 04:20:19 cibomahto strange... but good it works now ;) Aug 28 04:20:32 rwhitby: well, it doesn't make much difference even then, since it only converts an "infinite +COPS=0" into a "stuck +COPS=0" Aug 28 04:20:39 roh: yeah, now on to more interesting problems :-) Aug 28 04:21:07 cesarb: right, but it goes back to infinite if you don;t have the patch but do restart gsmd Aug 28 04:21:26 .oO(what a coincidence that the most sucking build errors happen to be with qtopia Aug 28 04:23:39 rwhitby: well, it's late here (13 hours difference, right?), so I'm going to sleep... see you tomorrow Aug 28 04:24:25 cesarb: thx for testing it Aug 28 04:25:43 rwhitby: I hope we manage to find something which makes it work, reliably... having a unstable gsmd, on a phone, when the IM is broken so you can't even fix it easily with the terminal, is not a good thing Aug 28 05:00:17 moin Aug 28 05:09:50 Is there a way from the terminal to "Swap Orientation"? Aug 28 05:24:59 weird... my new qemu's touchscreen is screwed up Aug 28 05:25:41 happycube: 90 degrees rotation - it's affecting everyone Aug 28 05:30:30 weird Aug 28 05:47:37 * TimRiker drops in again. Aug 28 05:47:50 so I flashed my new neo. how do I suspend/resume it? Aug 28 05:48:09 or is there no suspend? Aug 28 05:48:46 also, how does one type at the terminal? Aug 28 05:49:10 Only rudimentary power management -- hold the power button in while it's booted to get to the menu. If you're not careful, you'll run the battery flat, and it's a pain to get it back from that. Aug 28 05:50:14 Start the input manager for the on-screen keyboard, under the "all" category in the application selection (don't pick the one in "utilities" it'll fire up a calculator instead). Aug 28 05:50:43 A little white box will appear on the top of the screen, touch it when you are in the terminal emulator and the on-screen keyboard wil appear. Aug 28 05:57:13 is there a way to scroll through the applications in "all" ? Aug 28 05:57:18 TimRiker: best advice is to leave it running and plugged into USB charging, and use ssh over usbnet for everything Aug 28 05:57:25 I do get a keyboard to search. Aug 28 05:57:36 rwhitby: heh. not much of a phone that way. :) Aug 28 05:57:45 TimRiker: that's the current state. Aug 28 05:58:07 yeah. it's not like I was planning to use it as my current phone yet. :) Aug 28 05:58:18 flick the scrolling with your finger Aug 28 05:58:23 just like the iphone Aug 28 05:59:35 ahh! I was trying down instead of up. :) Aug 28 06:00:37 Where do you change orientation? Aug 28 06:00:51 hold the power button till you get a menu. Aug 28 06:01:23 Heh, ok. Haven't tried that yet Aug 28 06:04:13 what Aug 28 06:04:34 what's the bottom right icon on the input kbd? looks like a box with a line through it. Aug 28 06:06:46 I haven't been able to figure that one out either Aug 28 06:07:18 TimRiker: Have you seen that you can change to another keyboard if you press the right side of the white box in the menubar? Aug 28 06:07:44 is there a touch screen calibrator? mine is a bit off. Aug 28 06:08:27 TimRiker: SSH into the Neo - the touchscreen utils start with ts_ Aug 28 06:08:36 The calibration tool is among them Aug 28 06:10:35 TimRiker: xtscal will calibrate and save the settings Aug 28 06:12:03 thx! that did it. Aug 28 06:12:26 too many games in the menu. Aug 28 06:19:46 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Input_Method has more info but does not mention the "box with a line" key. Aug 28 06:25:28 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E48%AD Aug 28 06:25:50 ~x jp en 中 Aug 28 06:25:53 In Aug 28 06:32:40 TimRiker: Asked a friend who knows japanese about that box with a line over. He pointed me here: http://www.saiga-jp.com/cgi-bin/dic.cgi?m=search&sc=0&f=0&j=naka&g=&e=&s=&rt=0&start=1&sid=1188282694_84806 Aug 28 06:32:57 I guess the meaning on the keyboard is "an abbreviation of China" Aug 28 06:36:16 hi! can anyone help how to register to network? http://pastebin.ca/673184 Aug 28 06:36:32 it worked for me on 2007.1 but on 2007.2 it does not Aug 28 06:37:47 cayco_: pastebin /tmp/gsm.log Aug 28 06:38:39 cayco_: after you've restarted gsmd, try simply running the dialer Aug 28 06:39:02 cayco_: /etc/init.d/gsmd stop Aug 28 06:39:04 cayco_: /etc/init.d/gsmd start Aug 28 06:39:11 and then just click to the dialer Aug 28 06:39:15 great... I have the wrong kernel.... Aug 28 06:39:18 it should ask you for the pin Aug 28 06:39:38 rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/673185 Aug 28 06:39:40 ~x zh en 中 Aug 28 06:39:42 Center Aug 28 06:39:53 polz: i try that Aug 28 06:40:17 cayco_: yep, gsm module didn't power up correctly - do what polz says, but put it in the /etc/matchbox/session file at the start Aug 28 06:41:02 CM: ahh. makes sense then. there will be a chinese input screen presumably Aug 28 06:41:11 I guess so :) Aug 28 06:41:21 ~x en zh China Aug 28 06:41:24 瓷 Aug 28 06:41:29 ~x en jp China Aug 28 06:41:44 陶磁器 Aug 28 06:41:56 easier to read than those. :) Aug 28 06:42:08 rwhitby: polz, OK it's reboot time ;) Aug 28 06:42:33 TimRiker: I can only see ? here in putty (at work..) Aug 28 06:43:03 rwhitby: just to make sure, where do you see line that says my gsm module did not power up properly? Aug 28 06:44:24 cayco_: there was no CFUN or COPS in your gsm.log Aug 28 06:44:40 I really, really wish that the kernel, splash and rootfs were all one partition. Aug 28 06:44:54 could be the gsm module or it could be gsmd - I dunno where the real problem is Aug 28 06:45:11 TimRiker: "make flash-neo-official" :-) Aug 28 06:45:29 rwhitby: that's not the point. Aug 28 06:45:30 or flash-neo-local if you've built your own Aug 28 06:45:48 yeah, I know - the different things getting out of sync Aug 28 06:45:52 we've got the same problem in nslu2-linux Aug 28 06:45:56 I just grabbed what I thought was a matching kernel and rootfs only to find that it's not. Aug 28 06:46:04 i like that they're not.. can load a new kernel into ram over dfu, but still have it use flash as rootfs Aug 28 06:46:26 on many other embedded systems I've setup, I used one partition for all of them. Aug 28 06:46:53 TimRiker: perhaps the rootfs should have the kernel version embedded in the name, or at least have some version number which is common to both. Aug 28 06:46:55 thats painful for kernel development :) Aug 28 06:47:00 this allows you to have multiple kernels and module sets when you want, as well as offering easy complete upgrades. Aug 28 06:47:16 cheriff: no. it's not. it's _great_ for kernel development. Aug 28 06:47:24 that's why I do it. Aug 28 06:47:43 But what if you want to keep the settings you have in the rootfs? Aug 28 06:47:57 sounds like having to reload all of kernel+rootfs each time you do a recompile? Aug 28 06:48:11 CM: then scp over a new kernel. and leave the rootfs. Aug 28 06:48:16 it's jffs2, you don't have to recreate an image if you change a little bit? Aug 28 06:48:25 rwhitby: it does not work eiteher. gsmd.log looks the same. what could i do next? Aug 28 06:48:32 cheriff: no. they are just files in the fs. copy over a new one or two or three. Aug 28 06:48:34 TimRiker: That sounds good to me :) Aug 28 06:49:03 Kero: if you replace the fs, then yes. if you just copy over a file, then no. Aug 28 06:49:07 TimRiker: that requires u-boot support for reading the kernel from a jffs2 filesystem Aug 28 06:49:10 TimRiker: ok.. i dont flash each build, dfu-load until done, then flash that one Aug 28 06:49:24 rwhitby: exactly. which it should already have. Aug 28 06:49:24 rwhitby: ipaq bootloader could do that in the end :) Aug 28 06:49:42 TimRiker: I agree, but I haven't seen that in the neo u-boot Aug 28 06:49:54 I've got many a u-boot version around that support reading from jffs2 on nand. Aug 28 06:50:12 sounds like you've just volunteered then :-) Aug 28 06:50:51 heh. perhaps. I'm so swamped right now, that I don't have the time for it, but I may sometime soon. Aug 28 06:51:20 TimRiker: or at least on the mailing list point someone else to the code Aug 28 06:51:55 rwhitby: k. I know that patches have been submitted to u-boot at least 4 years ago. I have not really looked to see if they made it in. Aug 28 06:52:53 cayco_: no AT+CFUN line in your gsm.log ? Aug 28 06:53:49 rwhitby: grep CFUN /tmp/gsm.log Aug 28 06:53:49 says nothing Aug 28 06:54:10 you've got a more fundamental problem then. Aug 28 06:54:58 rwhitby: i gues, I'm using image build on 24.08 (using mokomakefile). what image is proven to work recently? Aug 28 06:55:26 cayco_: as far as I know, there is no image in which the gsm registration works reliably Aug 28 06:55:50 rwhitby: scheisse ;) Aug 28 06:56:08 rwhitby: do you have any fauvorite? ;) Aug 28 06:56:12 hey! use the right kernel and you get a bootup sound. :) Aug 28 06:56:31 cayco_: I'm currently using 2007.08 ipkg upgraded Aug 28 06:57:14 + gsmd restart in matchbox session + moko-dialer power-on to registration timeout doubled + my gsm registration state machine patch Aug 28 06:59:34 rwhitby: thx for helping... Although to me such failures in base functionalities actually stop me from working on the phone. I would like to have at least reliably working gsmd. life is brutal ;) Aug 28 07:00:07 cayco_: you're preaching to the choir there ... Aug 28 07:01:16 keyboards are hurting. I get 2 or 3 sometimes, thy processes don't get reaped, etc. Aug 28 07:01:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Development_resources]] Aug 28 07:01:23 s/thy/the/ Aug 28 07:01:23 TimRiker meant: keyboards are hurting. I get 2 or 3 sometimes, the processes don't get reaped, etc. Aug 28 07:01:41 what does ipkg want me to tell with 'Multiple packages (dbus-dev and dbus-dev) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest.'? Aug 28 07:04:02 ahh. it's mbinputmgr. it allows starting multiples, and it does not reap its children. Aug 28 07:08:31 moin Aug 28 07:10:08 TimRiker: Yes, that must be a bug. It's a pain to kill the keyboards once you've accidently started too many Aug 28 07:16:30 hmmm, a fresh image here: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/?C=M;O=D but there were no commits in the commit ml, so can there be updates at all? Aug 28 07:22:46 hi at all, only one information.... when is released new openmoko with wifi? thanks in advance Aug 28 07:23:11 geaaru: That's not known yet Aug 28 07:23:24 :'( ok thanks Aug 28 07:23:38 I hope before christmas Aug 28 07:23:51 great! :) Aug 28 07:24:05 i hope too Aug 28 07:24:59 I'm sure there will be some official announcement, you can subscribe to the mailinglist for that Aug 28 07:25:25 geaaru: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/announce Aug 28 07:27:41 ok i will do :) thank you very much Aug 28 07:28:01 geaaru: :) Aug 28 07:28:21 CM: I actually tried to subscribe to that mailing list trice now with no luck Aug 28 07:28:40 hhf423_w: Oh, that sucks. Any bug filed? Aug 28 07:28:56 No, I can't be bothered Aug 28 07:29:03 ok Aug 28 07:29:05 I just read the archives Aug 28 07:29:33 geaaru: please sign up and let us know if you receive any kind of confirmation Aug 28 07:30:06 hmm, tonight Haralt fixed an other bug in u-boot Aug 28 07:30:24 looks like he is trying to avoid to work on important things Aug 28 07:30:34 I'll gamble a bit and try a new uboot soon.. Aug 28 07:30:55 I don't have a debug board, but my current uboot is broken Aug 28 07:31:09 CM: what for? The August 19 uboot works good enough. No nand erase etc Aug 28 07:31:23 hhf423_w: I haven't tried that one Aug 28 07:31:23 * hhf423_w also does not have a debug board Aug 28 07:31:42 hhf423_w: works for me Aug 28 07:31:55 hhf423_w: I flashed with the august 7 or 8, since that was new when I got mine Aug 28 07:32:25 hhf423_w: the nslu2-linux autobuilder just builds continuously, so there will be at least one new image per day even if there are no changes Aug 28 07:32:25 hhf423_w: But it's broken. Every time I flash, my uboot_env (mtdblock1) is overwritten with parts of the kernel Aug 28 07:32:48 CM: well, the august 18 or 19 version in the 2007.08 directory fixed the on bug that was really annoying where you would need to nand erase before flashing Aug 28 07:33:01 hhf423_w: Thanks a lot Aug 28 07:33:07 rwhitby: ah, thanks Aug 28 07:33:09 hhf423_w: I'll give that one a try Aug 28 07:33:24 CM: do that; I have no issues since I flashed that Aug 28 07:33:30 :-) Aug 28 07:33:46 geaaru: what did work, the signing up on the webpage or did you actually get an email? Aug 28 07:33:55 hhf423_w: re: Harald fixing bugs in u-boot - I suspect he is now focused on GTA02 Aug 28 07:34:22 i received confirmation email and i had accept registration Aug 28 07:34:32 rwhitby: I'm glad he gets to do that, instead of ordering routers and building networks at the office Aug 28 07:34:40 CM: amen Aug 28 07:35:38 rwhitby: that would be an explanation. I'd rather have someone focused on gsmd though :-) Aug 28 07:36:08 CM: hahaha, yes, if you see it like that, him working on anything which is OpenMoko code related is an improvement, I agree Aug 28 07:38:47 *blink* Aug 28 07:39:15 ScaredyCat: /nick SleepyCat ;) Aug 28 07:39:59 I am awake now :) Aug 28 07:40:10 just Aug 28 07:40:20 morning... :) Aug 28 07:45:03 mroning ScaredyCat Aug 28 07:45:09 morning that is Aug 28 07:52:15 woohoo!! Aug 28 07:52:43 powered up neo to demonstrate it... gsm reg'd at boot, no messing dialed fine... Aug 28 07:52:51 no audio though :(: Aug 28 07:55:53 * * OM Bug 764 has been created by hndispatch-hhf423(AT)yahoo.de Aug 28 07:55:54 * * initiating a PAN using pand gets "Permission denied (13)" Aug 28 07:55:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=764 Aug 28 07:56:23 ScaredyCat: no audio. how irritating. Aug 28 07:56:48 yah :/ Aug 28 07:57:19 still, I showed em monked islans and they nearly shat themselves with joy :) Aug 28 07:57:33 monkey island Aug 28 07:57:40 hahaha Aug 28 07:57:44 who was that? Aug 28 07:58:15 I now basically always have audio if it asks me for PIN Aug 28 07:58:24 nice.. Aug 28 07:58:40 I suppose I could flash oneof my recent images :) Aug 28 07:58:55 that might help :-) Aug 28 08:00:40 I need to start building without that annoying boot sound though... Aug 28 08:04:21 There's a post on planet how to fix it Aug 28 08:04:36 hey all Aug 28 08:04:54 any news on the status of gpslib? Aug 28 08:05:48 Haven't heard any. Aug 28 08:06:35 I wonder about that too. Been very quiet since 2007.2 came out Aug 28 08:07:25 I'm running the project "Visual GPS", but it seams we can't write a client yet because of the status of gpslib Aug 28 08:08:05 CathodioN: Oh, interesting :) Aug 28 08:09:31 CathodioN write it with whatever gps dongle you want. your app should use libgps which connects to a standard gpsd anyways Aug 28 08:12:35 Yeah i know. But is the gpslib api done already? Aug 28 08:13:01 can't find it Aug 28 08:13:20 the usual gpsd will supposedly be used Aug 28 08:16:42 CathodioN http://gpsd.berlios.de/libgps.html Aug 28 08:16:50 ScaredyCat: you should just ipkg upgrade from your own built feed Aug 28 08:17:29 * jeddy3 is ashamed of living in Sweden today :( Aug 28 08:17:31 indeed :D Aug 28 08:17:37 errm Aug 28 08:17:44 indeed rwhitby :D Aug 28 08:18:15 ScaredyCat, :) Aug 28 08:18:34 right, i thought gpslib whould wrap up gpsd Aug 28 08:19:12 the openmoko architectural overview suggests that Aug 28 08:21:18 roh: thanks about that link Aug 28 08:21:54 i missed the point that libgps is a part of gpsd package. That's why i was so confused. Aug 28 08:22:24 But i get it now. Good news. Means we can start writing. Aug 28 08:28:36 http://www.os2world.com/content/view/14868/1/ ...not fun reading :S Aug 28 08:32:06 sigh Aug 28 08:32:27 hi all Aug 28 08:32:34 sometimes i think about working for the government to talk some sense in those ppl Aug 28 08:32:58 CathodioN, indeed Aug 28 08:33:19 hey florian Aug 28 08:38:26 jeddy3: That sucks Aug 28 08:40:27 CM, läsarstorm på idg om det nu :P Aug 28 08:40:42 Kan tnka mig det ;) Aug 28 08:42:30 openmoko: 03abraxa * r2837 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Fixed some build issues Aug 28 08:43:11 openmoko: 03laforge * r2838 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): Aug 28 08:43:11 openmoko: * implement gps and gsm power switching for GTA02 Aug 28 08:43:11 openmoko: * move udc_disconnect() call into usb driver, not gta01 core patch (which is applied before usb driver) Aug 28 09:01:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/ru]] [[Talk:FAQ/ru]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bucharest]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bucharest]] [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]] [[Development_resources]] Aug 28 09:29:21 hiya folks. Aug 28 09:30:12 Is there a log of this channel that is more searchable than rikers one-file-per-day setup? Aug 28 09:30:20 keep your own Aug 28 09:30:48 I did but that was on my old machine and I didn't pull it over, so looking for an online one Aug 28 09:33:12 jgm, yes Aug 28 09:33:42 http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/ Aug 28 09:35:43 jgm: I have a log since novermber last year as a textfile Aug 28 09:36:40 Which you could make easily with those files from that link too. Aug 28 09:38:29 Pah, found what I was after but the link has expired - my fault for attempting to be kind to pastebin Aug 28 09:38:54 Thanks for the help though guys Aug 28 09:40:08 the messageease input method looks REALLY nice Aug 28 09:40:21 ? Aug 28 09:40:36 * CM likes massage input from gf.. Aug 28 09:40:50 CM, :D Aug 28 09:40:55 * ScaredyCat massages CM's head with a shovel Aug 28 09:41:46 http://www.exideas.com/ME/faq.html ...linked from some input discussion on ML...found a video also: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zFf9Mw3nlsY Aug 28 09:43:25 how is virtual keyboard implemented on moko, a borderless arbitrary X application? Aug 28 09:44:35 jeddy3: The video was really nicely done Aug 28 09:44:42 nod Aug 28 09:44:57 I still want to see HexInput though.. :-D Aug 28 09:45:13 yes hexinput is also very nice! Aug 28 09:45:34 we need more of those implemented! :) Aug 28 09:46:30 Oh yes.. Hmm.. I've never worked with anything like that, but maybe it's worth a try :) Aug 28 09:52:01 /clear/clear Aug 28 09:52:29 always-on-top window that refuses focus and passes keypress-events to focused-app.. or something Aug 28 10:03:28 That MessageEase stuff does look pretty cool. It's patented of course but I don't know how that effects things. Aug 28 10:03:57 badly Aug 28 10:04:20 * zash_se thinks shapewriter looks interesting Aug 28 10:04:27 openmoko: 03njp * r2839 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): (log message trimmed) Aug 28 10:04:27 openmoko: 2007-08-28 Neil Jagdish Patel Aug 28 10:04:27 openmoko: Patch by: Rod Whitby Aug 28 10:04:27 openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_pin_entry), Aug 28 10:04:27 openmoko: (on_network_registered), (register_network_cb), (moko_dialer_init): Aug 28 10:04:31 openmoko: Ammend registering functions to respond correctly to the gsmd searching Aug 28 10:04:33 openmoko: event. Aug 28 10:06:01 FuzzyCat: I suspected as much. Aug 28 10:08:36 Of course it doesn't stop people implementing it for themselves, same as T9 Aug 28 10:11:34 someone should do to t9 what dvorak did to keyboards Aug 28 10:15:05 we should have a easy way of implementing/switching input methods (scripting or somewhat), it's up to everyone themselves if they would want to download a messageease-alike theme for inputmanager ;) Aug 28 10:19:16 Indeed, that's a good idea. An easy way to add plugins or whatever you want to call them to the input manager since patented stuff won't be able to be distributed. Aug 28 10:20:18 njpatel: thx for applying my patches Aug 28 10:23:21 rwhitby: np, the gsmd timing is a pain sometimes Aug 28 10:24:16 njpatel: is anyone looking at why most people need to restart gsmd in /etc/matchbox/session for anything to work ? Aug 28 10:25:01 rwhitby: I think there will be some more work done on gsmd soon Aug 28 10:26:13 * XorA guses the patch collision in dialer is due to recently added rwhitby patches Aug 28 10:26:35 XorA: yep, just remove them from OE Aug 28 10:27:53 openmoko: 03rwhitby * r155 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/openmoko-dialer.patch: Applied upstream Aug 28 10:28:38 * XorA waits for other bitbake threads to finish Aug 28 10:29:02 XorA: I'll let you push that, I need to make some dinner. Aug 28 10:29:55 rwhitby: ok, just waiting for the longer running thread to terminate before I restart Aug 28 10:44:55 * rwhitby prepares for a practice devirgination, before offering the same to a fellow aussie who's bricked their neo tomorrow. Aug 28 10:45:26 hi mickeyl Aug 28 10:45:42 wb mickeyl Aug 28 10:46:50 hi guys Aug 28 10:47:42 stefan_schmidt: packed your stuff yet? :) Aug 28 10:48:10 mickeyl: Will do tomorrow Aug 28 10:48:21 mickeyl: Not much to do Aug 28 10:48:28 rwhitby: i can't decide whether this was an innocent statement or rather sexist, but mighty cool ;) Aug 28 10:49:22 He's DHL'ing it from Sydney to Adelaide - we'll hopfully do a one day turn-around. Aug 28 10:49:41 mickeyl: When was the train leaving from FFM on thursday? I need to search for one to catch the ICE in Hannover Aug 28 10:49:55 rwhitby: ah :) Aug 28 10:50:12 stefan_schmidt: 06:58 *yawn* Aug 28 10:50:25 ICE 676 Aug 28 10:50:44 mickeyl: thanks Aug 28 10:50:44 mickeyl: if anyone else in Australia happens to brick their neo, feel free to direct them my way. I'm happy to unbrick anyone's as long as they pay the shipping both ways. Aug 28 10:51:08 rwhitby: ok, thanks. will do. we need to seed out more debug boards all over the world ;) Aug 28 10:51:26 mickeyl: suggestion for the next talk: repeat the question from the audience. It's difficult guessign the question when just having the answer. :-D Aug 28 10:51:44 ixs: oh bummer. right. Aug 28 10:51:50 it's even harder when you don't speak German ;-) Aug 28 10:51:52 sorry bout that Aug 28 10:51:59 is my froscon talk online somewhere? Aug 28 10:52:06 we saw it live Aug 28 10:52:13 ah, it was streamed :) Aug 28 10:52:37 you know, i've been doing presentations since years now... and i always forget to repeat questions Aug 28 10:52:39 *sigh* Aug 28 10:52:44 * mickeyl makes a big fat note Aug 28 10:52:48 mickeyl: *g* Aug 28 10:52:54 well, I saw half of it - every couple of seconds some packets must have got dropped in the ocean somewhere. Aug 28 10:53:01 hehe Aug 28 10:53:03 wet packets Aug 28 10:53:16 certainly shortened out some router. Aug 28 10:53:31 stefan_schmidt: will you bring any EZX devices for us to hack on? Aug 28 10:53:46 stefan_schmidt: i'd like to flash my 1200. it's bricked anyway Aug 28 10:53:53 mickeyl: A780 and ROKR E2 Aug 28 10:54:01 cool Aug 28 10:54:09 mickeyl: With your A1200 that should be a good collection Aug 28 10:54:15 yeah Aug 28 10:54:52 openmoko: 03thomas * r2840 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/icons/ (208 files in 5 dirs): * Add 32x32 and 48x48 versions of the GTK+ stock icons Aug 28 10:54:57 Not sure if I will be able to prepare the a780 with all the stuff needed for a phone call. Perhaps some nightshift... Aug 28 10:55:37 well Aug 28 10:55:42 we have time during the train Aug 28 10:55:46 during the trip, even Aug 28 10:56:03 mickeyl: Slides done? Or just use the froscon ones? Aug 28 10:56:28 stefan_schmidt: i don't know yet. i have no idea what kind of audience is waiting for us Aug 28 10:56:38 i doubt i need to tell them about open source on mobiles Aug 28 10:56:46 so perhaps rather some more technical stuff about the framework Aug 28 10:56:49 *shrug* Aug 28 10:56:52 didn't make up my mind yet Aug 28 10:56:55 rwhitby: I'll try to update my uboot this evening, but if I brick it I don't think I'll sent it to Australia. ;) Aug 28 10:57:02 mickeyl: Same problem here. Aug 28 10:57:50 CM: your choice - if it's prepaid both ways and a courier pickup from me, then I'm happy to devirginate for anyone Aug 28 10:58:23 * rwhitby begins adding a devirginate-neo target to MokoMakefile Aug 28 10:58:39 Thanks, good to have that as an option at lest. :) Aug 28 10:58:56 mickeyl: Are you sure about the time for the train? ICE 676 shows 06:42 from FFM at the bahn website Aug 28 11:01:52 mickeyl: Sorry, my mistake. That was from the airport. 6:58 is fine from the main railway station Aug 28 11:02:39 stefan_schmidt: when is this train in Hannover? Aug 28 11:02:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Look_%26_Feel]] [[Ringtones]] [[Talk:MacOS_X]] [[Main_Page]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] Aug 28 11:03:04 mickeyl: 9:17 Aug 28 11:06:20 mickeyl: Means I have to leave my town at 7:40 with the train. Not much better then you even if I'm way more north then you. Aug 28 11:06:22 mickeyl: for devirginator, it relies on having the lowlevel binary in the official snapshot directory. Could you put some in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08, even if they are just copied from 2007.04 ? Aug 28 11:06:48 (it actually relies on stuff being in releases, but I'll change that to the 2007.08 snapshot) Aug 28 11:09:33 * stefan_schmidt has a lunch break Aug 28 11:12:22 rwhitby: sure. i copied lowlevel-foo-gta01bv4-latest.bin to the images dir. Aug 28 11:14:53 rwhitby: Hey, I'm (finally) ready to test patching with the new makefile, just one question. Should I be creating patches starting in the openembedded directory or somewhere else? Aug 28 11:15:44 jgm: you need to create a patch for openembedded, since the _svn .bb files go directly to the svn repo, rather than getting stuff from the hardly-used local checkout of the openmoko svn repo Aug 28 11:16:17 so you need to engineer that a file gets created in the openembedded/packages/foo/files dir, and that the .bb file gets changed to include that patch in the SRC_URI Aug 28 11:16:36 all of that has to go in a patch in openembedded-HEAD, with a series file to enable it. Aug 28 11:16:43 mickeyl: thx Aug 28 11:17:46 mickeyl: since all that we use from the openmoko svn local checkout is the trunk/src/host directory, should we just be checking that out instead of checking out the whole svn repo? Aug 28 11:21:57 ScaredyCat: I seem to need to debug BT a bit, can you put bluez-hcidump into your repository? Aug 28 11:23:17 rwhitby: yeah, i think that makes more sense Aug 28 11:23:48 ScaredyCat: did you see my proposal yesterday about an openmoko-packages.bb file that we use to keep community repos in sync with what they are building? Aug 28 11:26:28 rwhitby: I actually used the rest of the trunk/ directory for reading, while investigating how to fix ScaredyCat's neo... Aug 28 11:27:28 * rwhitby tries to work out why sed '/^.*[^-a-zA-Z0-9_.]\(lowlevel_foo-gta01bv4-[-a-zA-Z0-9_.]*.bin\)[^-a-zA-Z0-9_.].*$/s//\1/p;d' in devirginator doesn't match Aug 28 11:27:52 rwhitby: what are you trying to match it with? Aug 28 11:28:16 FuzzyCat: I seem to need to debug BT a bit, can you put bluez-hcidump into your repository? Aug 28 11:32:40 mickeyl: it needs to be lowlevel_foo, not lowlevel-foo. you gave it the wrong name when you copied it Aug 28 11:33:12 * rwhitby was looking at the all the regexp stuff, and failed to realise that mickeyl had misnamed the simple part of the file name when copying it. Aug 28 11:33:50 rwhitby: :) Aug 28 11:34:18 hhf423_w, just in the middle of a build, will do right after that Aug 28 11:35:10 * rwhitby hopes that mickeyl is not far away from his computer ... Aug 28 11:35:20 FuzzyCat: excellent, thanks! Aug 28 11:36:04 FuzzyCat: did you see my proposal yesterday about an openmoko-packages.bb file that we use to keep community repos in sync with what they are building? Aug 28 11:36:42 rwhitby, no.. I didn't see it... on ML ? Aug 28 11:36:53 in IRC Aug 28 11:37:14 the idea is to put a packages/meta/openmoko-packages.bb file in openembedded, and then when people request packages we just add it to that. Aug 28 11:37:27 sounds like a good idea to mw :) Aug 28 11:37:29 me Aug 28 11:37:40 in that way we build up a list of packages that should be kept up to date in community repos. Aug 28 11:37:54 yes... good good... I'm in Aug 28 11:38:57 hhf423_w, built, just updating my package lists and then will push it up Aug 28 11:39:03 rwhitby: hmm, bummer. i think it's called like that in OE. anyway, i'm renaming it Aug 28 11:39:16 Hmm... so I've added a bb file to openembedded/packages/openmoko-apps but do I need to put anything in a higher-level recipe? It looks like there is some magic going on there but not sure what... Aug 28 11:39:23 openmoko-community-packages ? Aug 28 11:39:33 rwhitby: done Aug 28 11:39:41 FuzzyCat: that was fast! let me know when its up Aug 28 11:39:59 mickeyl: looks like the actual file has an underscore in OE, but your -latest symlink has a hyphen Aug 28 11:40:04 hhf423_w, I did it in parallel Aug 28 11:40:33 hhf423_w, all done Aug 28 11:40:41 NOTE: package linux-gta01-2.6.22.5-moko11-r1: task do_fetch: failed Aug 28 11:40:43 urgh Aug 28 11:40:43 mickeyl: doy ou know btw if someone is working on gsmd? Aug 28 11:40:56 FuzzyCat: ok, let me try Aug 28 11:40:59 gateway timeout on the de kernel mirror site Aug 28 11:41:01 mickeyl: shall I change OE to make the symlink with an underscore too? Aug 28 11:41:02 rwhitby: i see Aug 28 11:41:09 rwhitby: yes, please Aug 28 11:41:26 hhf423_w: not really atm. Aug 28 11:41:57 hhf423_w: laforge is going to do a major cleanup, but that's not today or tomorrow Aug 28 11:42:09 mickeyl: any specific reason? thats a key piece, no? Aug 28 11:42:17 laforge? Aug 28 11:42:18 heh - devirginator can't handle the new '+' characters in file names Aug 28 11:43:02 mickeyl: we can see laforge working on uboot. why is uboot more important than gsmd, do you know? Aug 28 11:43:09 rwhitby, are you building the .bb ? Aug 28 11:43:17 how do we decide what goes in? Aug 28 11:43:22 who decides? Aug 28 11:43:26 FuzzyCat: worked, thanks! Aug 28 11:43:28 mickeyl: can you apply this patch to devirginator please: http://pastebin.ca/673411 Aug 28 11:43:29 :D Aug 28 11:43:43 FuzzyCat: any package that someone requests, and that builds, goes in it. Aug 28 11:43:43 hhf423_w: yes i know. laforge is working on uboot because GTA02 has highest priority atm. Aug 28 11:44:21 rwhitby: i can, what does it do?` Aug 28 11:44:35 ok, sounds like a plan to me :D Aug 28 11:44:55 right, why fix an existing product when you can work on the next version. The company I work in also does that a lot. Aug 28 11:44:56 it allows devirginator to understand that filenames can have '+' signs in them now when it tries to download them Aug 28 11:45:20 hhf423_w: you may want to see it like that... Aug 28 11:46:06 mickeyl: We're just happy that Haralds gets to work with the code and not ordering rouders and fixing the infrastructure :) Aug 28 11:46:22 CM: *sigh* the right guy for the right job? Aug 28 11:46:24 CM: you bet... that's better than him installing cables Aug 28 11:46:33 :) Aug 28 11:49:38 mickeyl: did he actually install cabling too? wow Aug 28 11:50:04 cesarb: that was probably an exaggaration, but you got my point ;) Aug 28 11:51:38 I should probably report this as a bug in the priority scheduler of OpenMoko Aug 28 11:52:02 as in Inc. not as in code Aug 28 11:52:13 ya, do that Aug 28 11:52:19 it's not like i like the situation Aug 28 11:52:26 but i can't do anything about it Aug 28 11:53:20 * rwhitby slices the air with a knife Aug 28 11:53:48 morning all Aug 28 11:53:54 yo Writchie Aug 28 11:54:33 i made a bit of progress with windows RNDIS last night - who is responsible for the USB gadget stuff in OM? Aug 28 11:54:52 Writchie: cool - have you fixed the error 10 thing? Aug 28 11:55:14 Hello all Aug 28 11:55:29 Writchie: please add to bugzilla and give a heads up @ the openmoko kernel mailing list Aug 28 11:55:39 mickeyl: I am not blaming you, I am just venting my frustration Aug 28 11:55:44 Quick question regarding the GPS stuff, I seem to remember an email on the mailing list, stating that OpenMoko is trying to licence so map data, has this moved forward at all? Aug 28 11:55:50 Writchie: yooo! Aug 28 11:55:52 it's actually looking like a config problem - missing parameters that are part of the descriptors Aug 28 11:56:23 the RNDIS gadget seems to be built into the kernel instead of a module Aug 28 11:56:29 wibbit: there was no update on that since that mail Aug 28 11:56:38 hhf423_w: understood. it's a pity our low level expert has been dragged into too many things at once. trust me, i regularly pester him to donate time to gsmd. Aug 28 11:56:41 hhf423_w: okie, cheers Aug 28 11:56:52 lunch time Aug 28 11:57:02 mickeyl: we can also send chockolade or whatever :-) Aug 28 11:57:11 heh Aug 28 11:57:20 cookies for gsmd Aug 28 11:57:28 bbiab Aug 28 11:57:46 what's such a big problem with gsmd? Aug 28 11:58:02 anybody got an N770 or other device that works with RNDIS on windows XP? Aug 28 11:58:29 ynezz: it simply does not work. :) Aug 28 11:59:02 can you be more specific? Aug 28 11:59:14 ynezz: to be more specific: there are several problems: sometimes gsmd does not seem to correctly interpret a response from the modem, sometimes it's simply that the serial line to the modem seems to be dead. Aug 28 11:59:48 but you can debug that without harald, right? :p Aug 28 12:00:04 i know just about #666 which would need his attention Aug 28 12:00:48 ynezz: #256 has been reopened. Aug 28 12:00:53 ixs: the infinite COPS problem should be fixed now, since njpatel commited my patch Aug 28 12:01:02 1ombug 256 Aug 28 12:01:06 ~ombug 256 Aug 28 12:01:12 but I still need to restart gsmd in matchbox session to get it to work Aug 28 12:01:15 rwhitby: Not sure if this is meant to be happening or not but when I 'quilt add' a file from the openembedded directory it adds 'openembedded' to the start of the path (see http://pastebin.ca/673426 for example). Aug 28 12:01:17 !ombug 256 Aug 28 12:01:18 * * Bug 256, Status: REOPENED, Created: Unknown Aug 28 12:01:18 * * philipp.zabel(AT)gmail.com: GSM Modem doesn't seem to work on some devices (no serial communication possible) Aug 28 12:01:19 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=256 Aug 28 12:01:40 If that's the way it is meant to happen then fine, just wanted to confirm Aug 28 12:01:42 don't seem to be neo related, or is it? Aug 28 12:01:50 rwhitby: mhm. I could never really confirm that COPS problem on my device here. Aug 28 12:01:56 jgm: you need to create a series file and run make setup to get it to symlink in Aug 28 12:02:07 rwhitby: just doing a rebuild of the current devel tree, we'll see if something turns up. Aug 28 12:02:25 ? No idea what that means :( Aug 28 12:02:38 jgm: you should have an openembedded/patches symlink which points back to patches/openembedded-HEAD Aug 28 12:02:39 ynezz: not neo related? huh? Aug 28 12:02:58 just misread it, sorry :) Aug 28 12:03:09 I don't have that symlink, should it be there by default? Aug 28 12:03:16 jgm: but that symlink only gets put in there by make setup if there is a series file in the patches dir Aug 28 12:03:33 (since if it's there, then the whole timewasting revert stuff gets triggered) Aug 28 12:03:57 so you need to touch the series file, then make setup, then do the quilt stuff after making sure the symlink has been put in place Aug 28 12:03:58 Umm.. isn't that recursive? Or are you talking about a different patches dir in your second response? Aug 28 12:04:17 both paths I gave you were from /home/moko level Aug 28 12:04:37 Okay in that case I think it's not working, let me msg you to not pollute the channel... Aug 28 12:04:51 jgm: did you touch the series file first and then run make setup? Aug 28 12:05:18 touch patches/openembedded-HEAD/series ; make setup-openembedded Aug 28 12:06:53 * * OM Bug 765 has been created by jluebbe(AT)lasnet.de Aug 28 12:06:54 * * Factory Reset writes wrong environment Aug 28 12:06:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 Aug 28 12:22:49 Am I reading bug 765 right - Factory Reset = Make Brick? Aug 28 12:24:36 Writchie: No, you can still dfu-download a working environment to that partiton Aug 28 12:25:06 maybe we should add a Make Brick option Aug 28 12:25:12 :-) Aug 28 12:25:25 Writchie: I just added a comment to that bug Aug 28 12:25:30 XorA: What's wrong with the bricking options we already have? Aug 28 12:25:31 alphaone: wihout a partition table? Aug 28 12:26:05 Writchie: The partitions seem to be there, they just don't have any names Aug 28 12:26:19 aka kernel, rootfs.. Aug 28 12:26:19 ok - that's a rlief Aug 28 12:26:27 s/rlief/relief/ Aug 28 12:26:28 Writchie meant: ok - that's a relief Aug 28 12:26:55 alphaone: they are obviously not explicit enough :-) Aug 28 12:28:13 ;-) Aug 28 12:47:46 \quit gotta work! Aug 28 13:01:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:MacOS_X]] [[Current_events]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braunschweig]] [[Wish_List_-_OpenMoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds]] [[Main_Page/es]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] Aug 28 13:17:50 moin moin Aug 28 13:26:28 hi telmich Aug 28 13:27:07 hello kristian-m :-) Aug 28 13:35:21 how do I get the on-screen keyboard when running the terminal? Aug 28 13:38:34 cbrake use input manager from the main menu - then use the white area at the toolbar (in the very right side of what the keyboard selector ist) Aug 28 13:40:43 kristian-m: thanks! Aug 28 13:41:24 ohh good, neo comes with a default address for the usb network so I don't have to set it every time :-) Aug 28 13:41:49 That would be painful on the terminal :) Aug 28 13:52:21 hi Aug 28 13:54:50 hmm, I now get "Connection refused(111)" when I want to do BT with my Windows XP Aug 28 13:55:09 according to hcidump, PSM is missing. whatever that is Aug 28 13:55:14 libgsmd from svn don't have install rule :/ Aug 28 13:55:17 can someone explain why qt-x11-free is compiling ? Aug 28 13:56:00 yoyo_: Which bitbake version? Aug 28 13:56:38 FuzzyCat: Because qmake is needed for webkit compile and this is not nicely separated in OE yet. Will come. Aug 28 13:56:40 stefan_schmidt: 1.8.8 Aug 28 13:56:45 yoyo_: hmm Aug 28 13:57:01 stefan_schmidt, is this a new requirement? Aug 28 13:57:13 stefan_schmidt: it is more problem on source not on bitbake site Aug 28 13:57:40 yoyo_: It's not a problem with the svn but something strange in your oe build. I have seen this before, but only with 1.6.7 Aug 28 13:57:41 make file don't have a install rule Aug 28 13:57:59 FuzzyCat: Since we have the dep on webkit due to the feedreader Aug 28 13:58:02 * FuzzyCat is about to run out of disk space yet again... Aug 28 13:58:14 stupid fecking requirements Aug 28 13:58:45 hhf423_2: is your RFCOMM running? Aug 28 13:58:53 so either rm_work isn't working or there;s more crap Aug 28 13:58:54 yoyo_: It is autotools based and have a rule. Something goes wrong during the build. Please try to coomplete remove the packages, sources, workdir and stamps and start again. Aug 28 13:59:13 I trayed Aug 28 13:59:28 FuzzyCat: rm_work works fine here. 1,9GB after a full build from scratch Aug 28 13:59:30 clean; build; the same Aug 28 13:59:51 yoyo_: You also removed the source tarballs by hand? Aug 28 13:59:58 si Aug 28 14:00:25 stefan_schmidt, mine just grew by 4gig Aug 28 14:00:40 yoyo_: hmm, strange. Also the subfolder in sources/svn for libgsmd? Aug 28 14:00:40 yoyo_: try rm build/tmp/stamps/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libgsmd* and then give it another shot Aug 28 14:01:21 FuzzyCat: During build or after completed build? Aug 28 14:01:46 during the build Aug 28 14:02:01 webkit seems to have built twice Aug 28 14:02:03 jgm: That are the stamps I referred to. Aug 28 14:02:27 * FuzzyCat gets ready to bin feedreader Aug 28 14:02:27 stefan_schmidt: the same; | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. Aug 28 14:02:34 Yep just noted that sometimes make clean-package-* doesn't remove them for some reason Aug 28 14:02:50 FuzzyCat: It'S normal that it is that big during build. I mean, it can only delete the stuff once all rdeps are done. Aug 28 14:03:28 hahah the directory where it tray to make install is empty Aug 28 14:03:46 FuzzyCat: Hey, if you don't like this cool piece of code disable it for your build. You are free to do this Aug 28 14:04:12 stefan_schmidt, I know.. I build all the time, the requiremnt seems to have grown by 4 gb - ie on top of the normal requirement Aug 28 14:04:28 stefan_schmidt, it's not that cool... Aug 28 14:05:03 and it's not really a core app either... Aug 28 14:05:09 FuzzyCat: I don't think so. I do a from scratch build every night and it always stays at 1.9GB after the build. Aug 28 14:05:13 kristian-m: what do you think, would it make sense to try to port / run cinit on openmoko? Aug 28 14:05:29 stefan_schmidt, you aren't reading what I'm typeing Aug 28 14:05:37 FuzzyCat: But the upcoming browser will also use webkit. And that is a core app. Aug 28 14:05:42 i am NOT talking about AFTER the build Aug 28 14:05:48 stefan_schmidt: where can I put more then 10 lines of text ? Aug 28 14:05:55 ~pastebin Aug 28 14:05:56 well, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well Aug 28 14:06:28 there should be no reason to compile qt just to get webkit donw Aug 28 14:06:29 FuzzyCat: If you can't life with a need of more then 4GB space during the build I can't help you. Aug 28 14:06:48 again you're not actually reading what I type Aug 28 14:06:49 FuzzyCat: Send patches to separate qmake better from qt in OE. Aug 28 14:06:55 some ideas? http://www.pastebin.ca/673521 Aug 28 14:07:44 FuzzyCat: As you think I can't help you. I stop it. Aug 28 14:08:05 no, I'll just remove feedreaderyes Aug 28 14:08:33 fix the bug where some muppet uses 'sources' not source Aug 28 14:08:44 yoyo_: Exactly the same error I got once. But for me it only appeared with bitbake 1.6.6 so I never tracked this done. Aug 28 14:09:53 no wonder it's using all my disk space.. Aug 28 14:10:07 s/done/down/ Aug 28 14:10:07 stefan_schmidt meant: yoyo_: Exactly the same error I got once. But for me it only appeared with bitbake 1.6.6 so I never tracked this down. Aug 28 14:23:11 hi Aug 28 14:23:41 mhm, as an added observation: the buildtree for openmoko needs about 20GB now... Aug 28 14:23:45 bit much maybe Aug 28 14:23:55 and before todays update it worked with about 15GB Aug 28 14:23:59 hahha zombi day in uk :) http://www.ghost.pl/~woyteck/london-pics/2007.08.27-zombie-walk/p1010269.jpg Aug 28 14:25:05 * XorA does the Monster Mash Aug 28 14:27:48 ixs: a few more weeks and my 80 GB laptop drive won't cut it anymore... Aug 28 14:28:59 yoyo_: Reminded me of a slashdot sig I saw today: "Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains." Aug 28 14:35:14 what size is the torx-screws? Aug 28 14:35:51 hi Aug 28 14:36:52 zash_se, t40 Aug 28 14:37:18 zash_se, or what it's called...t6x40 maybe Aug 28 14:37:46 mkay Aug 28 14:40:27 t6 is more likley Aug 28 14:41:29 t6 is it Aug 28 14:41:38 the vendor supplied torx screwdriver is t6x50 Aug 28 14:41:55 i'd like to see the mobile phone which uses t40 screws Aug 28 14:42:03 hehe Aug 28 14:42:03 I'm sure it comes with it's own phonebooth attached. Aug 28 14:43:03 t6 seems common in phones Aug 28 14:43:36 is anyone else using qemu with the usb gadgetfs and dummy_hcd kernel modules? Aug 28 14:45:01 ixs: do you have INHERIT += "rm_work" in your conf? Aug 28 14:45:31 or something similar, dunno if it's correct Aug 28 14:46:05 ynezz: noo, I left that out as I needed to do some after-compile checks. but that is okay for now. Aug 28 14:56:38 * FuzzyCat throws cheese at stefan_schmidt Aug 28 15:00:31 wb Aug 28 15:00:40 errm Aug 28 15:00:55 wb Aug 28 15:01:46 rwhitby, did you have a list of community apps? Aug 28 15:13:58 wiki dead wiki dead Aug 28 15:17:07 buildhost seems dead as well Aug 28 15:23:52 hi all Aug 28 15:25:32 how i may start gsmd? Aug 28 15:26:23 /etc/init.d/gsmd start Aug 28 15:26:49 how flags i need yuse Aug 28 15:27:18 err? Aug 28 15:35:53 yo Aug 28 15:41:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bootloader]] [[FAQ/ru]] [[Current_events]] [[User:PiotrDuda_notes]] [[Wish_List_-_OpenMoko_Ringtones_and_Sounds]] Aug 28 15:42:17 buildseems farked again :/ Aug 28 15:45:20 FuzzyCat: what? Aug 28 15:48:23 just getting some errors when it's tryng to do the final build Aug 28 15:50:13 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch Aug 28 15:57:59 FuzzyCat: i'm mid-kernel rebuild, should i kill it now and update later? Aug 28 15:58:58 no.. Aug 28 15:59:02 don't kill it Aug 28 16:00:36 the problem is something to do with the final package building.. Aug 28 16:01:39 http://pastebin.ca/673633 <-- is the error Aug 28 16:04:06 I have no idea what builds the control.tar.gz .. or wtf an AR is Aug 28 16:04:21 additional requirement? Aug 28 16:10:21 great Aug 28 16:10:48 now Neo thinks my Windows does not have Bluetooth PSM: "Connection refused - PSM not supported" Aug 28 16:14:17 Does anyone know what the failed sanity checks of form 'ERROR: QA issue: _gobject.la failed sanity test (reference to workdir or installed)' mean? Aug 28 16:14:48 i get them a lot jgm ... Aug 28 16:15:01 but they don't appear to be an issue Aug 28 16:15:10 Writchie: what has PAN todo with rfcomm? Aug 28 16:15:55 Do they stop your packages from being included with the development image? Aug 28 16:17:14 don't think so, I get them on general builds. Aug 28 16:19:55 Hmm... so anyone here understand bitbake better than me? I have added a package to openembedded/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb and it builds but isn't in the development image Aug 28 16:21:19 Okay different question: does anyone here understand bitbake at all? Aug 28 16:21:35 i think a) you you should create a local part Aug 28 16:21:57 a) what does that mean? Aug 28 16:23:01 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course#Setting_Up_a_Local_Overlay Aug 28 16:23:41 then when you build it overrides the standard oe 'openmoko-devel-image' Aug 28 16:23:56 rather than your change getting blasted when you update etc Aug 28 16:24:12 But I thought that was the point of using quilt and patches? Aug 28 16:24:45 * FuzzyCat stares blankly at jgm Aug 28 16:24:52 * jgm hates bitbake Aug 28 16:25:18 * jgm is also irritated by a lot of people who seem to understand bitbake but don't feel it worth sharing their knowledge Aug 28 16:26:04 * FuzzyCat agrees... Aug 28 16:26:22 the build system should not be a barrier to development Aug 28 16:26:57 Yep, and it's a massive one for people who don't already use OE Aug 28 16:27:19 yup Aug 28 16:31:36 hhf423: nothing - wasn't aware you trying to connect with PAN Aug 28 16:43:20 meep Aug 28 16:45:21 i call in my neo phone and in libgsm-tools i see how i call but neo not get music and not respond Aug 28 16:53:53 FuzzyCat: I got the control.tar.gz errors when I ran out of disk space once. Then the pkg files were empty and python couldn't look inside. them. I edited ipkg.py to print out the filename and then rebuild those packages. Maybe the do_rootfs log file has a better log to tell you which package is screwed Aug 28 17:07:06 eggsy, ta... Aug 28 17:12:13 it just had to be qt4 didn't it Aug 28 17:30:38 openmoko: 03chris * r2842 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add new widget MokoSearchBar, bump version to 0.2.0 Aug 28 17:40:41 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[FAQ/fr]] [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]] [[USB_Networking]] Aug 28 17:41:51 heya Aug 28 17:45:23 anyone having problems with dbus on ipkg upgrade? Aug 28 18:03:15 hello Aug 28 18:03:24 hi Aug 28 18:03:34 hi Aug 28 18:03:54 just a quick question Aug 28 18:04:17 Ophelia: shoot Aug 28 18:04:35 can I run the develloper-image on linux natively or do I always need an emulator? Aug 28 18:04:41 under linux Aug 28 18:04:47 You need an emulator to run the Aug 28 18:04:56 ARM binaries, but you can compile the apps natively and use them without Aug 28 18:05:30 oh really? Aug 28 18:05:36 ah, you mean because the apps are written for Linux Aug 28 18:05:48 but won't they require proper hardware? Aug 28 18:05:50 is anyone here actually using the emulator? Aug 28 18:07:09 Right. Aug 28 18:07:14 GTK+/X specifically Aug 28 18:07:41 aha Aug 28 18:07:41 ok Aug 28 18:07:41 thanks Aug 28 18:09:45 hozer: I use the emulator for debugging and trying out apps Aug 28 18:10:10 how do you ssh to it? Aug 28 18:10:51 hozer: it depends on your host environment Aug 28 18:10:57 Got to setup the modules Aug 28 18:11:06 is there a way to lower the size of the fonts? Aug 28 18:11:12 I am starting to think that clicking does not work when qemu is run under vnc Aug 28 18:11:33 gcb77: I am running debian etch, 2.6.18-4-k7 Aug 28 18:11:58 hozer: I don't think you'll be able to get SSH to the emulator working under that kernel version Aug 28 18:12:15 You'll need at least 2.6.20 Aug 28 18:12:21 I built the gadgetfs and dummy_hcd modules Aug 28 18:12:26 does Openmoko provide some kind of 'input enabled zoom' -- some texts look very very tiny. Aug 28 18:12:27 but they don't work all the way Aug 28 18:12:47 hozer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_Gadget_USB_Module Aug 28 18:13:25 yeah, I get errors Aug 28 18:14:20 stuff like: gadget_read: event error: 4 Aug 28 18:15:19 argh gsm..!! Aug 28 18:15:29 -net nic -net user -redir :2022::22 from qemu does not seem to work either Aug 28 18:16:51 hozer: yeah, that's not going to work... I don't think the drivers for that network card are part of the NEO kernel Aug 28 18:17:44 There's always VMWare if you have a decent box Aug 28 18:17:59 Whenever I try to power up or down the antenna or ask it to register, I get the assertion 'priv->handle' failed Aug 28 18:18:05 Any idea why? Aug 28 18:18:36 can someone here tell me how to change the apps available under the "+" tab in Today ? Aug 28 18:18:44 I also get a "Waiting for registration" every few seconds. Aug 28 18:19:36 polz: Add more .desktop files to the right directory. Aug 28 18:19:41 polz: And note the category picker. Aug 28 18:21:34 Aria: which is the "right" directory ? Aug 28 18:22:36 /usr/share/applications ? Aug 28 18:22:43 nope, can't be it... Aug 28 18:22:51 polz: probably that. I can't remember, but it's one with a bunch of other *.desktop files. Aug 28 18:22:55 I mean.. the categories don't seem to match Aug 28 18:22:56 find / -name \*.desktop Aug 28 18:23:08 I've just tried that :) Aug 28 18:23:37 but that menu shows waaaaay more games than there are .desktop files Aug 28 18:32:38 on 2007.2 how do i bring up stylus/key input? Aug 28 18:32:59 jr0m: try starting the input manager Aug 28 18:33:07 jr0m: utilities -> input mgr Aug 28 18:33:10 it's under utils Aug 28 18:33:28 yeah doesnt start...i will try to launch it ssh. hmmm Aug 28 18:33:51 (i was having a lot of trouble even clicking on it, last time though) Aug 28 18:33:53 hmm.. I've just mentioned... Aug 28 18:34:07 mentioned -> noticed Aug 28 18:34:23 clicking on the entry just starts a random app Aug 28 18:34:32 it starts calculator for me Aug 28 18:34:47 it just started blackbox for me :) Aug 28 18:34:57 :D Aug 28 18:34:57 after first starting the calculator Aug 28 18:35:11 cool i am not crazy then Aug 28 18:35:22 i felt totally stupid for asking... Aug 28 18:35:23 btw, has anyone been able to receive calls yet ? Aug 28 18:36:34 ive not gotten calls to work well on a 2007.2 recipe yet Aug 28 18:38:09 you have to add Aug 28 18:38:21 /etc/init.d/gsmd stop Aug 28 18:38:23 /etc/init.d/gsmd start Aug 28 18:38:28 polz: received one Aug 28 18:38:33 to your matchbox session file Aug 28 18:38:40 Aria: what did you do ? Aug 28 18:38:45 restarted gsmd Aug 28 18:38:53 Just Worked, once Aug 28 18:38:54 then not Aug 28 18:38:59 I mean... for me, I get some sort of notification about an incoming call Aug 28 18:39:12 and when I click on the icon -> nothing Aug 28 18:39:20 yup worked one time then not. Aug 28 18:39:35 hmm... is it just me, or is gsmd reeeeeeeally buggy ? Aug 28 18:40:06 oh, and can anyone suggest a file manager for openmoko _ Aug 28 18:40:08 ? Aug 28 18:40:12 polz *g* gsmd Aug 28 18:40:19 terminal Aug 28 18:40:26 hehe Aug 28 18:40:27 is a good file browser Aug 28 18:40:30 ls and cd Aug 28 18:40:34 is all you need Aug 28 18:40:35 nog and find Aug 28 18:40:52 woglinde: yeah, that's really useful when you don't have a keyboard attached to the phone Aug 28 18:41:05 port thunar Aug 28 18:41:16 woglinde: I just love to peck on the keyboard, yep, that's real effective :> Aug 28 18:41:55 I sort of expected there would be someone working on it Aug 28 18:43:13 buy a bt keyboard Aug 28 18:43:16 Does anyone know if/how openmoko knows which country it is in? I know that this may be a bit premature as GPS isn't working but I'm building a database of country/region dialing information and wondering if I should include the GSM country code as well... Aug 28 18:43:43 it doesn't know Aug 28 18:43:52 jgm hm you can set the timezone Aug 28 18:43:55 woglinde: sure, it's way more handy to carry around a bt keyboard than it would be to just port or write a file manager. Aug 28 18:44:01 but you should be able to get the information from the network Aug 28 18:44:06 woglinde: I meant in a dynamic way Aug 28 18:44:11 no idea, what at commands to do anyway Aug 28 18:44:25 guaqua: yeah there is an AT command that I can dig out, just wondering if it was used anywhere yet Aug 28 18:44:42 If not then I may as well add this stuff in, no idea if it'll be of use or not but better there rather than not Aug 28 18:50:09 jgm: +COPS=? its encoded in the operator string Aug 28 18:50:52 Writchie: yep that's the GSM country code but is there anywhere in openmoko to translate that to more useful information e.g. the country? Aug 28 18:51:30 jgm: there is a list of all those Aug 28 18:51:40 you make up the algorithm :) Aug 28 18:52:20 Yep that comes back to the DB holding this data for various other reasons, if there is nothing else doing it then I'll put it in here (and slap a D-Bus interface on it) Aug 28 18:53:01 that sounds like an interface to geoclue Aug 28 18:53:12 you should do some research on it Aug 28 18:53:48 Yeah was looking at geoclue but it seems very early. Was thinking that this would be a standalone app then can add a geoclue backend to query the db at a later date Aug 28 18:54:40 (Although if we assume that GPS will be on all the time then this it makes far more sense to use that as a locator than the country code) Aug 28 18:55:07 not necessarily Aug 28 18:55:16 using the map might be resource intensive Aug 28 18:57:11 how can I turn off the bipping I hear each time I touch the screen ? Aug 28 18:58:05 whats disappointing is that things seem to break more on every upgrade. Aug 28 19:05:35 i still cant start the keyboard... Aug 28 19:06:26 Hmm.. why are my fonts now oversized since the last upgrade? Aug 28 19:06:42 jr0m: I've just added mbinputmgr to the session file Aug 28 19:06:42 folken: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Q:_My_mrxvt_.28terminal.29_fonts_are_huge. Aug 28 19:06:53 sure, I no longer see the clock now, but it's worth it Aug 28 19:08:32 ixs: its not just the terminal.. its also the clock, and the context menu from the gsm applet. Aug 28 19:08:44 7list Aug 28 19:08:47 ... sry Aug 28 19:09:33 folken: mhm. clock in big fonts I had too in the past, was not reproducable after a reboot though. dunno what it was Aug 28 19:10:22 what is the default gesture for a space in the stroke recognizer ? Aug 28 19:11:04 I guess a dash Aug 28 19:11:10 or a low dash Aug 28 19:11:27 or was that arrow right.. Aug 28 19:11:50 I must be doing something wrong, then Aug 28 19:19:05 ixs: the font problem went away since the reboot. just like you said. Aug 28 19:22:51 FUCK! Aug 28 19:22:57 one dead battery coming up Aug 28 19:23:38 ixs: ? Aug 28 19:24:10 polz: neo, left over the weekend with a battery in there, been connected via usb to a computer now for >20h and still not powering on Aug 28 19:24:15 swapped the battery, works. Aug 28 19:25:57 ugh Aug 28 19:27:42 polz: ack Aug 28 19:30:55 re Aug 28 19:33:10 oh. wow, someone is working on interesting gui stuff: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=1 Aug 28 19:35:00 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SettingsGUI Aug 28 19:35:30 have fun :-) Aug 28 19:36:07 actually you'll need some python stuff to get it working, if you can, i'd like to get feedback Aug 28 19:37:04 hi kristian-m, did you get the icon theme problems sorted out Aug 28 19:37:53 kristian-m: so i need to ipkg install python etc? Aug 28 19:37:55 pH5 no, haven't worked on that yet - do wi still have it? Aug 28 19:38:06 hhf423 yes Aug 28 19:38:23 ok, let me try Aug 28 19:38:36 hhf423 try without the -dev packages first, i'd lik to know if its working without them Aug 28 19:38:43 and I almost though that there might be nothing to test today Aug 28 19:38:57 sure Aug 28 19:41:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SettingsGUI]] [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[Splash_screen]] Aug 28 19:43:36 hhf423: awesome, thx for the url Aug 28 19:44:10 * hhf423 notices that todays ipkg dance was a very short one: Nothing to be done Aug 28 19:44:59 Basheri: aparently, you can try this out yourself: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SettingsGUI Aug 28 19:45:36 pH5: you around? Aug 28 19:45:47 kristian-m: by python, you mean python-core ? Aug 28 19:46:40 Basheri: python is part of the ScaredyCat repository if you do not have a build environment Aug 28 19:47:53 dcordes: slightly Aug 28 19:48:29 hhf423: k, cool Aug 28 19:49:56 hhf423 yes, though I thougth it would select that - do you have a conflict with python-curses? Aug 28 19:50:24 kristian-m: yes, ipkg can not decide :-) Aug 28 19:50:41 pH5: Do you have a tarball with the icons rescaled for qvga? Aug 28 19:51:27 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Aug 28 19:51:31 pH5: We asked the designer again and I like to prepare a proof of concept theme for qvga devices over the MDD conference next weekend. Aug 28 19:51:57 pH5: In the bugtracker I only found the theme files attached. Aug 28 19:52:09 stefan_schmidt: no time, have to hack htc herald ;) Aug 28 19:52:20 stefan_schmidt: I can tar up the icon-theme images that I have resized Aug 28 19:52:34 but I didn't hunt around for icons in other packages (dialer, etc.) yet. Aug 28 19:52:50 pH5: (icons) Just send me what you have. Thanks. Aug 28 19:52:52 hmm is something wrong when the battery reports 4.0 Volts on a Voltmeter? Aug 28 19:53:10 pH5: (herald) Everything working already? *caught* Aug 28 19:54:41 hi, does openmoko currently support voip? Aug 28 19:55:04 MrKeuner: not even close. Aug 28 19:55:22 MrKeuner: it barly makes gsm calls. Aug 28 19:55:28 does that mean that it won't Aug 28 19:55:29 MrKeuner: right now, GSM doesn't seem to work reliably yet Aug 28 19:55:50 stefan_schmidt: hehe. I don't even start into userspace yet. but I promise you'll be the first I call :) Aug 28 19:55:54 MrKeuner: but support shouldn't be too difficult. There is voip software in the repository. Aug 28 19:55:56 MrKeuner: it means it won't anytime soon (soon being weeks, not months) Aug 28 19:56:02 MrKeuner: the main problem is the gui. :) Aug 28 19:56:06 * pH5 boots the neo to extract images Aug 28 19:56:10 pH5: heh, cool Aug 28 19:56:17 kristian-m: Aug 28 19:56:22 root@fic-gta01:/tmp$ python SettingsGUI-0.4/SettingsGUI.py Aug 28 19:56:24 Traceback (most recent call last): Aug 28 19:56:25 File "SettingsGUI-0.4/SettingsGUI.py", line 23, in Aug 28 19:56:27 import gtk Aug 28 19:56:28 ImportError: No module named gtk Aug 28 19:56:37 polz: folken: cool, i can kinda wait Aug 28 19:56:46 polz: folken: I am no developer Aug 28 19:58:03 hhf423 okay, so you'll need the -dev package then. I think this is a bug in the .bb file... :-( - watch your free flash space when installing... Aug 28 19:58:42 hhf423: kristian-m how responsive is the python program? Aug 28 19:58:55 kristian-m: I am at %91 of / Aug 28 19:58:55 how long does it take to start? Aug 28 19:59:10 guaqua: will tell you in a few min :-) Aug 28 19:59:41 MrKeuner: just don't hold your breath Aug 28 19:59:48 hehe ok Aug 28 20:00:09 hmm.. is ipkg supposed to handle dependancies ? Aug 28 20:01:17 kristian-m: still getting the same error Aug 28 20:01:51 guaqua it's well usable - just needs up to 5 secs to start Aug 28 20:02:06 okay Aug 28 20:02:11 hhf423 hmm stange - its working for me with python-pygtk-dev installed Aug 28 20:02:16 so the startup time is the issue with python right now Aug 28 20:02:55 guaqua: no, sorry, I still need to download some stuff before I can tell you Aug 28 20:02:57 guaqua not really - it's just a bit slower then the C programs Aug 28 20:03:34 hmm Aug 28 20:03:36 interesting Aug 28 20:04:04 kristian-m: ok, I am getting a bazillion "no space of device" errors Aug 28 20:05:03 hhf423 had the same here - I moved /use/include to my sd-card for now and symlinked it back Aug 28 20:05:37 kristian-m: your app is a really nice demonstration of the power of python Aug 28 20:06:24 guaqua yes, though it was strange to interface the c-librabry using a commandline tool Aug 28 20:06:33 kristian-m: how exactly did you move that? Aug 28 20:06:34 :> Aug 28 20:07:09 hhf423 mv /usr/include /media/card/include; ln -s /media/card/include /usr/include Aug 28 20:07:22 hhf423 something like that Aug 28 20:07:26 hello hhf423 Aug 28 20:07:44 hi Ghiottone Aug 28 20:08:47 Would anyone like to buy a neo1973? I got one but my circumstances have changed, or know of anyone who wants one? Aug 28 20:09:17 radiorental: write a mail to the community mailing list Aug 28 20:09:30 cheers hhf423 Aug 28 20:09:31 which country are you in? Aug 28 20:09:34 US Aug 28 20:09:41 but I will ship ww for free Aug 28 20:09:47 radiorental, last mail I read from the community was from a developer asking somone who did not used it to sell Aug 28 20:09:58 300usd, hardly used, free shipping Aug 28 20:09:59 * hhf423 did also see that mail :-) Aug 28 20:10:09 thanks folks Aug 28 20:10:14 radiorental: it will be gone in a second, believe me Aug 28 20:10:26 hhf423: what's the web broser shown at scap.linuxtogo.org? Aug 28 20:10:42 are we supposed to be able to place and receive calls on the sp1? I've put in a t-mobile sim, but I can't seem to get the antenna icon to show anything other than a "?" Aug 28 20:11:09 midori? Aug 28 20:11:14 hhf423: thanks again Aug 28 20:11:23 gcb77: I haven't seen the screenshot but.. dillo ? Aug 28 20:11:40 radiorental: if its not gone within a day, come back here and we'll find someone for you :-) Aug 28 20:11:51 TimRiker: restart gsmd Aug 28 20:11:57 TimRiker: and then start the Dialer Aug 28 20:12:01 (o; Aug 28 20:12:02 gcb77: midori, you can find it in the ScaredyCat repository Aug 28 20:12:06 TimRiker: it should ask you for a pin Aug 28 20:12:18 doh, got to configure net on my laptop!!!! Aug 28 20:12:32 * hhf423 congratulates gcb77 Aug 28 20:13:25 gsm calls not working are a major problem... half of the questions posted here seem to have something to do with it :) Aug 28 20:13:47 * gcb77 flickers on and off the internet as he experiments with USB networking in knetworkmanager Aug 28 20:14:36 kristian-m: hmm, that got me 3% Aug 28 20:15:08 gcb77, hey stop fiddling with my internet :D Aug 28 20:15:12 I would like to setup my own repository online. Aug 28 20:15:36 Ghiottone: like online at home or like online on the internetz? Aug 28 20:15:38 is there a way to tell bitbake or mokomakefile to deply only the packages I want into a dir? Aug 28 20:15:50 hhf423, internet Aug 28 20:16:03 hhf423, for home I have it already set up Aug 28 20:16:18 hhf423, but it contains all of my locally compiled ipkgs... Aug 28 20:16:23 Ghiottone: is that not the same principle? Aug 28 20:16:49 aw, sorry, the question was about whitelisting packages Aug 28 20:17:04 hhf423, yeah. I want only my own packages there. Aug 28 20:17:15 there would be no point in duplicating all the tree Aug 28 20:17:22 sure Aug 28 20:17:38 no idea, maybe FuzzyCat knows Aug 28 20:18:05 kristian-m: that was not enough :-( Aug 28 20:18:16 I have made ipkgorphan Aug 28 20:18:23 and I think it could be useful Aug 28 20:18:31 if someone fills its / Aug 28 20:19:09 hhf423 hmm, I still got 3.5 MByte free. maybe you have to free other stuff as well, ant put the SettingsGUI dir to /media/card as well. Sorry Aug 28 20:19:16 polz: I don't have a pin set on the sim. Aug 28 20:20:01 telmich I really think Aug 28 20:20:07 kristian-m: I already put the Settingsgui stuff intp /tmp Aug 28 20:20:13 Does the latest build of 2007.2 (I just updated and built earlier today then an hour ago) boot but all the fonts are squares, or is it just me? Aug 28 20:20:24 huh ? I didn't know that was possible Aug 28 20:20:57 TimRiker: have you tried the method described in the wiki under "manually using GSM" ? Aug 28 20:21:48 restarting gsmd did it. no pin requested. Aug 28 20:22:57 thx. incoming and outgoing both work fine now. Aug 28 20:23:15 hhf423 try to copy /usr/share to /media/card - that should give you some free space - but try to copy first and remove it when copying was successful (du -ch /usr/share) Aug 28 20:23:19 TimRiker: try /etc/init.d/gsmd stop; /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop; /etc/init.d/gsmd start; /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm start while logged in via ssh Aug 28 20:23:39 how come the modem dies so often ? Aug 28 20:23:42 hhf423, what's the problem? full /? why don't you remove some package? Aug 28 20:23:44 ixs: just restarting gsmd worked. Aug 28 20:24:17 TimRiker: what images are you using? Aug 28 20:25:03 OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-P1-August-Snapshot-20070822-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 28 20:25:23 and kern? Aug 28 20:25:29 Ghiottone: yes, / full. and there is really not enough to deinstall Aug 28 20:25:46 uImage-2.6.21.5-moko10-r4-fic-gta01.bin (the only one with matching modules in that rootfs) Aug 28 20:26:38 hhf423, deinstall and reinstall it on the card Aug 28 20:26:39 on ssh in, there was no gsmd running. don't know why. there is an init script as /etc/rc5.d/S35gsmd Aug 28 20:27:27 TimRiker just restarting gsmd should stop gsm-panel-app from updating and kill the panel when you try to change settings there... Aug 28 20:29:12 kristian-m: ah, sure enough, the panel went away. Aug 28 20:30:17 TimRiker: first do /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop then stop/start gsmd then start x Aug 28 20:30:46 here is ipkgorphan http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ipkgorphan_0.0.1-r0_armv4t.ipk Aug 28 20:30:55 feedback is appreciated Aug 28 20:31:06 Ghiottone: what does it do? Aug 28 20:31:31 something like deborphan Aug 28 20:31:51 it shows you which packages you can safely remove without breaking other packages dependencies Aug 28 20:32:08 stefan_schmidt: http://linuxtogo.org/~ph5/tmp/openmoko-theme Aug 28 20:32:12 the line ims posted worked for me and got the icons back. Aug 28 20:32:17 hmm working nicely with 2.6.22.5m11r1 and 20070828 Aug 28 20:32:27 after adding /etc/matchbox/session fix Aug 28 20:32:30 hhf423: effectively the same thing. Aug 28 20:32:48 also noticed that input manager will run from All section but not from Utilities section Aug 28 20:32:52 cd /tmp Aug 28 20:33:27 kristian-m: ok, now I get ImportError: No module named cairo Aug 28 20:34:17 hhf423: install python-pycairo Aug 28 20:34:45 mickey|sports: there is something wrong with the python/gtk dependencies. pygtk doesn't depend on pycairo, but pygobject pulls in a whole load of -dev packages Aug 28 20:34:50 where is the source of pysettings? Aug 28 20:34:51 TimRiker: did you do the matchbox fix? Aug 28 20:35:01 andylockran: nope. Aug 28 20:35:05 ok Aug 28 20:35:32 how can I see which directory is taking up how much space? Aug 28 20:35:43 du -h Aug 28 20:35:44 pH5: Thanks. Aug 28 20:35:48 or use kdirstat Aug 28 20:36:13 ScaredyCat: thanks Aug 28 20:37:12 TimRiker: Hey, hi there Tim! Aug 28 20:37:22 someone have a compiled minimo they can up? Aug 28 20:37:52 pH5, mickey|sports pygtk should also provide a gtk.py which is only available after installing python-pygtk-dev Aug 28 20:38:52 * hhf423 moves stuff to the mmc Aug 28 20:38:54 jr0m: no, but midori = yes Aug 28 20:39:50 cworth: heya carl! having fun here? :) Aug 28 20:40:16 how do I mount the mmc? Aug 28 20:40:19 TimRiker: I keep hoping to, but haven't had much time to play yet. Aug 28 20:40:35 oh ok where? Aug 28 20:40:38 oh. it automounted on this boot. Aug 28 20:40:57 n/m Aug 28 20:40:59 got it Aug 28 20:41:00 ty Aug 28 20:41:43 dialer eats an incredible amount of ram. Aug 28 20:43:09 hehe, how else to justify powering 128M of sdram all the time Aug 28 20:43:21 kristian-m: after I installed pycairo: ImportError: No module named threading Aug 28 20:43:54 pH5: well, minimo won't have much less to pig out on. Aug 28 20:44:03 s/less/left/ Aug 28 20:44:04 TimRiker meant: pH5: well, minimo won't have much left to pig out on. Aug 28 20:44:07 TimRiker: If I can get this thing functioning as a phone, maybe I can start carrying it around. Aug 28 20:44:12 hhf423 oh, i thought python-lang had that, you'll need it, i'll update the wiki Aug 28 20:44:44 cworth: power management still sux from what I've seen. it's not useful as a phone till that is improved. Aug 28 20:45:16 hhf423 actually python-subprocess should depend on python-threading... Aug 28 20:45:22 TimRiker: Yeah. Aug 28 20:45:31 how's om2007.2 coming along? any official releases? Aug 28 20:45:38 * daMaestro has been too busy to track Aug 28 20:45:42 TimRiker: Oddly enough, the phone is actually the piece that interests me the least. Aug 28 20:45:59 kristian-m: coo, now it works Aug 28 20:46:14 hhf423 at last :-) have fun Aug 28 20:46:35 I'm much more interested in the high resolution display, and eventually some wireless, (I want to do some multiplayer games---maybe with bluetooth in the short term). Aug 28 20:46:53 I'll also be very interested in the GPS functionality if that can be handled with free software. Aug 28 20:47:02 cworth what did you have in mind? Aug 28 20:47:20 kristian-m: What games? Aug 28 20:48:55 cworth right, do you want to port existing games or code new ones? Aug 28 20:49:12 kristian-m: Mostly turn-based logic/word games, (things like Ricochet Robots, Boggle, Coda, Binary Homeworlds, maybe Volcano). Aug 28 20:49:20 * TimRiker chants BZFlag, BZFlag, BZFlag and grins Aug 28 20:49:32 kristian-m: the backlight stuff works, landscape does not, sound works, but the gsmd stuff not Aug 28 20:49:32 TimRiker: Good luck getting a usable inputsystem ;) Aug 28 20:49:39 TimRiker: did your icon change after you restarted gsmd Aug 28 20:49:47 daxxar: not to mention hw 3d. Aug 28 20:50:00 TimRiker: GTA02 has hw 3d Aug 28 20:50:02 TimRiker: GLES Aug 28 20:50:11 s/GLES/GL ES/ Aug 28 20:50:11 daxxar meant: TimRiker: GL ES Aug 28 20:50:15 andylockran: they icons died the first time, but when I restart gsmd and X all appears ok. Aug 28 20:50:21 kristian-m: Almost all original stuff. I want the same things for playing on conventional machines as well, but I'm not aware of a lot of interesting implementations, (superdupergames.com has several very interesting games, but a very uncompelling interface). Aug 28 20:50:31 daxxar, when will that be supported? Aug 28 20:50:39 hhf423 you'll have to wait for an event from the gsmd-lib for gsm to work Aug 28 20:50:43 mdt: Hm? Aug 28 20:50:57 daxxar: really? cool! I should start working on a port. could use ts for movement and tap to fire. Aug 28 20:51:06 TimRiker: Hmm, true. Aug 28 20:51:25 cworth nice idea Aug 28 20:51:28 TimRiker: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison Aug 28 20:51:30 oh... no gl libs sofar, yes? Aug 28 20:51:46 SMedia 3362 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator Aug 28 20:52:16 hhf423 landscape/portrait switching is just calling xargs - can you try calling 'xargs -o 1' from the commandline? Aug 28 20:52:23 Not sure, the hardware isn't even available. ;-) Aug 28 20:52:29 kristian-m: I just restarted x and gsmd and now I get a correct raeding Aug 28 20:52:45 hhf423 great :-) Aug 28 20:52:58 btw, who's writing the driver for the new graphics adapter ? Aug 28 20:53:02 kristian-m: xrandr Aug 28 20:53:03 kristian-m: cool stuff Aug 28 20:53:14 pH5 right thanks Aug 28 20:53:34 daxxar, you need software suporting that hw... Aug 28 20:53:42 kristian-m: xrandr you mean? Aug 28 20:53:48 * cworth is slow Aug 28 20:54:03 mdt: True. I haven't read any info on it. Aug 28 20:54:12 Perhaps we're lucky, and SMedia has linux drivers for their device. ;) Aug 28 20:54:24 cworth yes Aug 28 20:54:33 daxxar: "has" doesn't mean much, unfortunately Aug 28 20:55:15 * cworth pops a sim card in to see what happens Aug 28 20:55:32 I do have a gsmd process running at least... Aug 28 20:55:48 compiz then? :) Aug 28 20:57:03 Wow, lots of debug prints in these programs... :-) Aug 28 20:57:38 hhf423 i still wonder why landscape switching isn't workig for you Aug 28 20:57:50 getting cu: /dev/ttSAC0: Line in use Aug 28 20:57:55 even when lsof shows it's not Aug 28 20:57:57 GSM icon is "?" and clicking on "power up antenna" just makes all the panel apps disappear, (same thing after restarting gsmd and xserver) Aug 28 20:58:17 andylockran: chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttSAC0 Aug 28 20:58:25 kristian-m: oh, it now works (after I did the x retsrat) Aug 28 20:58:44 cworth: that's why I'm still not convinced in-process plugins are a good idea for panel applets. Aug 28 20:58:48 TimRiker: Did you get any further with gsm? Aug 28 20:58:48 cworth edit your /etc/matchbox/session and add /etc/init.d/gsmd stop and a /etc/init.d/gsmd start before other entries Aug 28 20:58:53 that got mine to work Aug 28 20:59:15 * jroman three days to compile openmoko! I've got it! Aug 28 20:59:15 kristian-m: see: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=1 Aug 28 20:59:36 pH5: I don't know that it matters much either way. Thing really need to just work reliably. Aug 28 20:59:39 * hhf423 congratulates jroman Aug 28 20:59:48 hhf423 okay, strange though. - so i can continue implementing the next features then :-) Aug 28 21:00:11 ixs: I've done that chown - which is it that i need to edit in inittab? Aug 28 21:00:22 cworth: right :) Aug 28 21:00:42 andylockran: with current snapshots? no, no need to change inittab anymore Aug 28 21:00:49 kristian-m: yes, please. we also need a way to restore sound when that breaks again :-) Aug 28 21:00:57 hmm.. Aug 28 21:01:00 cworth: restarting gsmd and X worked fine. Aug 28 21:01:26 jr0m: Hmm... still behaves the same way for me here. Aug 28 21:01:33 kristian-m: and of course how to get a icon into the application manu :-) Aug 28 21:01:36 hhf423 you mean when an other application changed the mixer. hmm okay noted Aug 28 21:01:44 ixs: cu: creat (/var/lock/TMP0000000ebe): Not a directory Aug 28 21:01:48 Not much in the debug spew but: Aug 28 21:01:50 ** (matchbox-panel-2:1384): DEBUG: lgsm_phone_power returned 0 Aug 28 21:01:51 kristian-m: mixer and sound profiles Aug 28 21:01:59 cworth im using 08.28.07 and 2.6.22 kernel Aug 28 21:02:03 andylockran: mkdir -p /var/lock Aug 28 21:02:09 hhf423 okay, it's on the todo list Aug 28 21:02:14 at what point are things going to be running as non-root? Aug 28 21:02:17 kristian-m: and maybe a mute/unmute fast button Aug 28 21:02:26 jr0m: I flashed the images that Sean announced. Aug 28 21:02:28 running everything as root is a really bad idea once a web browser is there. Aug 28 21:02:34 oh. Aug 28 21:02:42 i never got that recipe to work Aug 28 21:03:04 TimRiker: of course that no problem because linux is secure!!1! Aug 28 21:03:05 ixs: there's a /var/lock file already there - can I delete than and then create the dir? Aug 28 21:03:09 cworth: im using ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ Aug 28 21:03:19 * hhf423 falls from the chair laughing Aug 28 21:03:19 I can see the support calls now "I removed /lib/libc-2.5.so cause I was not using it, and now my phone won't boot" Aug 28 21:03:47 the gnu ARM assembler for the phone translates float ops to softfloat, right? Aug 28 21:03:59 hhf423: not if you run as root all the time. There are linux viruses in the wild. They will eventually bite you in the butt. Aug 28 21:04:03 TimRiker: so long as uboot is there there should always be a fairly simple canned way to unfsck a phone to some extent using dfuutil Aug 28 21:04:15 ixs: i can always reflash... Aug 28 21:04:20 andylockran: look at the wiki about manually using gsm. Aug 28 21:04:22 TimRiker: I know that, I was just pulling your leg Aug 28 21:04:23 that should explain the process Aug 28 21:04:26 cw666: that's not the point. running as root is a bad idea. Aug 28 21:04:41 ~lart hhf423 Aug 28 21:04:41 * apt whacks hhf423 with the cluebat Aug 28 21:05:02 how do I start a gprs connection? Aug 28 21:05:37 TimRiker: and if you know the statistics, then you know viruses are not the rising issue anymore, trojans are and most of the get installed though infected websites and user interaction Aug 28 21:06:00 TimRiker: gprs is in the wiki (manually using gprs), it actually works sometimes Aug 28 21:06:04 hhf423: agreed. and running as root makes that all very likely. :) Aug 28 21:06:12 TimRiker: yes Aug 28 21:06:30 hmm.. it hangs on connection Aug 28 21:06:32 * TimRiker looked on the gprs page which explains gsm. somewhat less than useful. Aug 28 21:06:37 I'm on the wiki Aug 28 21:06:40 How bout we stop stressing the little things until the software is out of alpha Aug 28 21:06:57 I get to Connected. -and then it hangs.. Aug 28 21:07:17 well the run-as-root is a larger issue. many apps will assume they can do things that they will no longer be able to. Aug 28 21:07:21 though the phone is still registering presses .etc Aug 28 21:07:22 that should get fixed soon. Aug 28 21:07:38 other comments are just that.. comments. :) Aug 28 21:07:52 TimRiker: i dont disagree running everything as root is a bad idea Aug 28 21:07:54 TimRiker: It's not a large issue compared to so... writing the code. Aug 28 21:07:55 ignore me Aug 28 21:07:58 for now... Aug 28 21:08:04 TimRiker we are aware of that issue. it just is of no priority at all given the current state overall Aug 28 21:08:11 jr0m: There are a lot of images there without any guidance. Have any for me? Aug 28 21:08:29 Yeah, what roh said. Aug 28 21:08:31 roh: it should me. security is not something you can add after the fact imho. Aug 28 21:08:46 TimRiker this is far away from beeing 'used' in the real life Aug 28 21:09:12 not at all the point. are you saying that _none_ of the code that is on this device will end up on the final product? Aug 28 21:09:34 a lot will change. that's a given. but security should not be an afterthought. Aug 28 21:09:35 roh: hahaha, thats how it starts with security every time. "It wasn't a priority and then we had to go into production and now can you please bolt it on" Aug 28 21:09:44 hhf423: exactly. Aug 28 21:09:48 TimRiker security is a concept. and hacking around on it while you are not shure which components will interact how is more than messy and generates broken concepts Aug 28 21:10:05 Making little adjustments here and there to ensure things can run as non-root isn't difficult. Aug 28 21:10:28 why not just run the debian arm distro? Aug 28 21:10:29 roh, you're the roh from ccc berlin? you should not talk like that. Aug 28 21:10:39 i think that's already non-root Aug 28 21:10:58 roh: part of each an every interaction is considering the security impact. so if you leave security till the end, you will have to re-evaluate the entire stack. Aug 28 21:11:08 *yawn* Aug 28 21:11:38 is there a gui audio player in ipkg? Aug 28 21:11:50 TimRiker it will not be left till the end. but you do not seem to get how long the actual way from here to outside the lab actually is. Aug 28 21:12:01 Yes, security matters, yes it needs to be considered as part of the development but whining about running as root at this stage is silly. Aug 28 21:12:17 roh: heh. I'll assume you don't know my history. Aug 28 21:12:29 yes there is a lot of code which will be used. but not all of it. see the neod, it is a proof of concept. Aug 28 21:12:55 i dont mean to sound like an ass ... but am i the only one who right now is stunned at how bad the code is? Aug 28 21:13:10 (i work doing embeddad linux and sw for a living, i have some experience here) Aug 28 21:13:17 so i think TimRiker has a really good point Aug 28 21:13:33 cw666: it's about where I expected it given that hardware only recently became available. Aug 28 21:13:44 TimRiker: yes and no Aug 28 21:13:48 :) Aug 28 21:14:00 cw666 depends on what code you look. there were a lot of different authors already (and some we had to remove) Aug 28 21:14:03 TimRiker: basically, im worried the overall arch is a tad Desktop-Like Aug 28 21:14:22 TimRiker: the phone is slow to boot and the footprint is VERY large for what it presently does Aug 28 21:14:37 it more or less a whole lot of semi-working prototype code and pretty bitmaps Aug 28 21:14:45 yeah, I have one of the phones with the weird behaviour - gsm only works if the stty command is run after the cu comand Aug 28 21:14:52 just reading thry bug 256 now Aug 28 21:14:58 cw666: the boot time can be drastically cut down with not a lot of effort. Aug 28 21:15:13 cw666: it's already pretty stripped... what else would you cut? Aug 28 21:15:22 andylockran: that's due to a bug/feature/whatever in cu (it changes flow control settings on exit) Aug 28 21:15:27 cw666 no wonder.. youre carrying a gdb and similar stuff around. there is no optimization and no real cutting down on binary size done at all. Aug 28 21:15:37 dsilva: glibc would be top on my list. :) Aug 28 21:16:20 TimRiker: do you mean the c stdlib or gobject? Aug 28 21:16:36 I mean I'd use uclibc myself. Aug 28 21:16:39 oh Aug 28 21:16:53 i thought it was uc already Aug 28 21:16:58 nope. Aug 28 21:17:23 there are a ton of dev tools in there still, but that's somewhat expected. Aug 28 21:17:43 cw666 yes, i also want boot-times, clearly below 30 seconds out of the cold, stunning fast reaction time, no lag, no 'it clicks 1 sec later' and so. and i will get it. i'm shure of that. just takes time. remember.. openmoko is a small company. Aug 28 21:18:06 roh: it's not so much a criticism as an honest representation of the facts Aug 28 21:18:29 i'm well aware of the how much pain this can be to get it small and clean (like i said, i do this for a living elsewhere) Aug 28 21:18:53 the boot time can't be helped with a resume image? Aug 28 21:18:53 cw666 oh, believe me.. you wouldn't wanna listen to a mad, drunken coreteam, ranting about their product. but this does not belong here Aug 28 21:19:26 ps, the old dead tinylogin, ps, top, less, gdb, strace, ltrace, sysv init, sysc mod utils, etc. Aug 28 21:19:46 most are just there for development though. Aug 28 21:19:47 dsilva before trying bad hacks it is better to start cleaning up and optimizing. but this is done 'when it works' and not before Aug 28 21:19:57 roh: yes it does, to some extent.... being aware of issues such as size and security early on mean it should be LESS painful at the end when people decide to cleanup some of this Aug 28 21:20:00 TimRiker: those things only take up storage space, they wouldn't make the phone slower Aug 28 21:20:24 roh: that's true Aug 28 21:20:27 dsilva: not commenting on boot time here. just on the "size" of the rootfs. Aug 28 21:20:32 dsilva: the large rootfs makes development somewhat slower though if you have to reflash it Aug 28 21:20:40 unless you use nfsroot and just avoid that step Aug 28 21:20:41 there are also some strange delays when booting which need to be researched. just nobody found the time yet. Aug 28 21:20:56 not sure what it's worth, but the reason my phone isn't connecting could be because it's resending AT+COPS=0 every 5 seconds Aug 28 21:21:08 cw666: shouldn't have to reflash much if you're using ipkg? Aug 28 21:22:06 dsilva: probably true, ive not really had enough time to deal with userspace that much Aug 28 21:22:30 if i do it manually it works Aug 28 21:22:30 is there a way of changing the length between each one? Aug 28 21:22:30 is there a way of changing the length between each one? Aug 28 21:22:39 sorry - lagging badly at the moment Aug 28 21:22:51 andylockran: COPS is not the reason, it's just a symptom Aug 28 21:22:53 as far as program sizes, I'm working on an arm compiler backend to generate smaller 16-bit code when possible :) Aug 28 21:23:17 i wondered if XIP was working looking into Aug 28 21:23:21 TimRiker any experience there? Aug 28 21:23:32 dsilva: sounds like a waste of time at this point with the large number of other low hanging fruit around. Aug 28 21:23:48 TimRiker: well, it's for an architecture course :) Aug 28 21:24:03 XIP sux. fast boot, yes, at the expense of eating up performance all the rest of the time. Aug 28 21:24:12 dsilva: so compiling everything with thumb? Aug 28 21:24:22 and the flash is NAND, no? so XIP won't work anyway. Aug 28 21:24:40 zecke_: not everything, mixed code Aug 28 21:25:22 TimRiker: the hw i deal with is also slow for XIP, i wondered if it was something specific to my setup though Aug 28 21:26:07 not that you guys misundertand me. its not that all this would not be total madness (from a project ideas point of view) or we couldn't do it (we are suprised whats possible from time to time) its just that it needs time. we are abound 20 people + external ones. and no just hiring (what we do) does not help since people need to be trained to know about why and how and what we are doing here. Aug 28 21:27:37 btw, what is the right place to start sending patches? openmoko-devel? Aug 28 21:27:42 i dont see anyone else doing this so i wonder Aug 28 21:28:17 cw666 depends for what part of software Aug 28 21:28:24 kernel Aug 28 21:28:41 there's kernel list Aug 28 21:28:59 oh, there is? let me google for is Aug 28 21:29:31 openmoko-kernel Aug 28 21:29:40 see the list of lists ;) http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ Aug 28 21:30:14 thanks Aug 28 21:30:49 roh: have we an communication problem? Aug 28 21:30:53 muahahaha Aug 28 21:31:27 fgau i hope not Aug 28 21:32:09 roh: i think yes Aug 28 21:32:36 fgau where this time? Aug 28 21:33:14 is there yet a usable input method for the new UI? Aug 28 21:33:36 jr0m: Excellent. Those images, (plus adding /etc/init.d/gdm start to /etc/matchbox/session), seem to have done the trick. Aug 28 21:33:47 dumb question, but is there a good way to clean the screen ... someone was messing with mine and i can see they used a pen not a stylus Aug 28 21:33:50 fgau if you wish you can also talk german to me (if that helps) Aug 28 21:34:24 nice cworth Aug 28 21:34:27 roh: jo Aug 28 21:34:29 thats great news Aug 28 21:34:52 Cool, and the dialer worked, (but no audio...). Aug 28 21:35:02 did you get audio on boot? Aug 28 21:36:31 cworth: did the audio modules load? lsmod etc Aug 28 21:37:01 jr0m: Yeah, I got the boot sound just fine. Aug 28 21:37:28 have you ever tried to "alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state restore" Aug 28 21:38:28 err its just in /etc now. Aug 28 21:39:13 jr0m: Thanks, (and no, I've never really don anything with this device before). Aug 28 21:39:28 Hello #openmoko, i'm thomas seiler, proud owner of a new neo and a bit puzzled... Is there anyone online that knows a bit about the gsm subsystem ? Aug 28 21:39:43 cworth: if you can do your ipkg update && ipkg upgrade Aug 28 21:40:40 thseiler: look at the wiki. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM Aug 28 21:41:01 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMokoFramework/es]] [[SettingsGUI]] [[User:Hhf423]] Aug 28 21:41:19 Thank you jr0m, will do Aug 28 21:41:44 jr0m: That did it! Two-way audio is working now. Thanks. Aug 28 21:42:00 cool. Aug 28 21:42:31 is there any keyboard in openmoko-2007.2? Aug 28 21:42:38 input manager Aug 28 21:42:46 applications:all:input manager Aug 28 21:42:49 jr0m: how is the pack called? Aug 28 21:44:25 * cworth might just have to leave this sim card in here for a few days... Aug 28 21:44:51 cworth i've used it all day so far. 1st day ever for me Aug 28 21:45:28 jr0m: Hmm... need to get my usbnet routing setup to do the ipkg upgrade. Aug 28 21:45:46 yup. and add a /etc/resolv.conf Aug 28 21:45:56 could somebody tell me the ipk's name which provides input manager? Aug 28 21:46:18 ptim-manager? Aug 28 21:46:22 Though, hmm... it looks like it should be up... Aug 28 21:46:43 jr0m: Oh yeah, I bet that's all I'm missing. Aug 28 21:48:36 jr0m: upgrading now---thanks for the help Aug 28 21:48:59 dcordes: matchbox-applet-inputmanager ? Aug 28 21:49:24 mbinputmgr Aug 28 21:50:33 dcordes: looks like matchbox-applet-inputmanager provides /usr/bin/mbinputmgr, which puts a white box at the top of your screen and when you press that you get a keyboard Aug 28 21:50:42 correct Aug 28 21:51:01 (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" Re: Adding Applications To OpenMoko The Right Way Aug 28 21:51:21 dcordes: you can use a different keyboard by manually running /usr/bin/matchbox-keyboard via ssh. that's provided by matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod Aug 28 21:51:35 dsilva: ok thanks Aug 28 21:53:37 cworth: i also ipkg install midori. heehe ty all Aug 28 21:55:15 jr0m: What's midori? (It's package description is useless "Version 0.0.5-r0 of package midori"). Aug 28 21:55:22 "Its" even Aug 28 21:55:24 webbroswer Aug 28 21:56:22 mickeyl - *ping* Aug 28 21:57:08 Elrond: pong Aug 28 21:57:13 Ahh. Aug 28 21:57:15 mickeyl: I forgot to mention (on froscon) that there is another reason for open hw documentation being better (imo) than using the .h files from linux: Imagine a free OS which has a copyleft license which is not compatible to the GPL. They will have real trouble porting there system to the neo. I as a FreeBSD user I'm at least in the position to decide that I can use the linux .h files when it's OK for me that my Kernel gets GPLed (e.g. Aug 28 21:57:15 no CDDL code in it). But anyway, I'm sure you are all doing your best for opening the system as much as it's possible, Thanks :) Aug 28 21:57:25 anyone going to be in Birmingham for this? http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6080676756.html Aug 28 21:57:42 mickeyl - Is there any nice way to boot some sort of rescue system on the neo? (which is usable via usb) Aug 28 21:58:13 Why not just DFU reflash? Aug 28 21:58:31 Elrond: we don't have a dedicated rescue system image yet, but you can boot any kernel/rootfs combination from SD. Aug 28 21:58:37 Maledictus even if you cannot officially copy headerfiles. thats what happens all the time out there in the wild. to be exact often the header and its comments is better documention than any datasheet Aug 28 21:58:40 eventually i also want to have booting from NFS in the boot menu Aug 28 21:58:50 mickeyl: actually, i was just looking into that Aug 28 21:59:03 cw666: cool, please keep me posted Aug 28 21:59:09 roh, I wouldn't do that. Aug 28 21:59:19 cw666: patches against the default environment welcome :) Aug 28 21:59:24 mickeyl: well, for now ill just use a differently kernel image with an initramfs since i dont have a debug board on hand Aug 28 21:59:25 mickeyl - Hmm, I probably should really buy soe microsd... Aug 28 21:59:31 Elrond: yeah Aug 28 21:59:44 cw666: oh, good idea. does that work w/ OE? Aug 28 21:59:44 mickeyl: someone offerred me one though so ill probably look at it properly next week once they drop it off Aug 28 21:59:59 Maledictus: Anyone using a copyleft license incompatible with the GPL is setting themselves up for plenty of problems regardless. Aug 28 22:00:06 cw666: i think a kernel + initramfs would be perfect Aug 28 22:00:07 mickeyl: nothing i presently do will need/require OE (curse OE!) Aug 28 22:00:13 heh Aug 28 22:00:15 OE rocks Aug 28 22:00:19 but lets not discuss that Aug 28 22:00:21 i'm biased Aug 28 22:00:56 cw666 - u-boot supports initramfs? Aug 28 22:01:05 cworth: me wouldn't do that either, but I also wouldn't discriminate it. Aug 28 22:01:29 Elrond: it doesnt have to know about it, it's just part of the kernel image when done right Aug 28 22:02:04 mickeyl: perhaps for final builds it doees, right now it's just a long-winded way of making simple things hard Aug 28 22:03:48 cw666 - Ahhh. So one could put the rescue image inside the normal jffs2 rootfs? :) Aug 28 22:04:07 (assuming space on the rootfs / small rescue image) Aug 28 22:04:16 speaking of bitbaking, does someone have a prebuilt ipkg for minimo? :) Aug 28 22:04:47 Elrond: no, initramfs gets embedded inside the kernel, so it would live inside the kernel partition Aug 28 22:05:32 cw666: fear not. it'll slow down once the OpenMoko monotone server is in place Aug 28 22:05:35 cw666 - Well, one can put a kernel in the rootfs. Aug 28 22:06:25 I'm getting this error: NOTE: the following files were installed but not shipped in any package: Aug 28 22:06:37 (or even better: upload it via DFU into RAM... that would be great anyway) Aug 28 22:06:38 how do I have them included in the ipk file? Aug 28 22:08:44 mickeyl: monotone? are you serious? Aug 28 22:08:50 morning (utc) Aug 28 22:09:15 trying to install a local package using "ipkg install pack.ipk" it says ipkg: "fork failed" and segfaults Aug 28 22:09:37 cw666: sure. we will be an OE mirror with slightly older software. this works fine using monotone, since that's what OE uses Aug 28 22:10:49 what might be wrong? Aug 28 22:11:01 mickeyl - Do the buildhost kernels support initramfs? Aug 28 22:12:05 mickeyl: I just noticed task-openmoko-feed. thx. Aug 28 22:12:09 stupid fecking feedreader Aug 28 22:12:18 rwhitby: feel free to add things you want to see :) Aug 28 22:12:31 Elrond: no, the defconfig needs to be seperate i think Aug 28 22:12:38 will do, and I will use it for the nslu2-linux autobuilder too. Aug 28 22:12:56 mickeyl - Huh? Aug 28 22:13:42 Elrond: i have no experience with initramfs but i was under the impression that you need to tweak the defconfig of the said kernel to make it know about that Aug 28 22:14:52 mickeyl - Yeah, I never did initramfs either. Aug 28 22:17:41 Well, until there is a nice DFU-RAM-downloadable rescue image, I'm probably keeping my old kernel with oabi, etc. :) Aug 28 22:19:06 :) Aug 28 22:19:09 mickeyl: the kernel config needs to have support that Aug 28 22:19:11 is all Aug 28 22:19:24 cw666: right. that's what i thought Aug 28 22:19:36 you dont need to do anything magic to make initramfs work other than provide one the kernel and check against Aug 28 22:19:39 usually that Aug 28 22:19:39 gah Aug 28 22:19:40 sorry Aug 28 22:19:45 stupid ' key :-) Aug 28 22:19:55 usually that is inside the kernel but not always Aug 28 22:20:41 if it doesn't stop booting once it can't find the initramfs then we could enable it unconditionally -- if it doesn't slow the boot down though Aug 28 22:21:18 mickeyl: initramfs is just some userspace, it could do anything you want within reason Aug 28 22:21:31 it could even have sshd or a menu or more Aug 28 22:21:35 yea Aug 28 22:21:41 (ive done all of this elsewhere) Aug 28 22:21:54 sshd would be great. :) Aug 28 22:21:56 what do you give the kernel as CMDLINE to make it boot from initramfs? Aug 28 22:22:06 mickeyl: not possible Aug 28 22:22:23 mickeyl: and why bother? have the initramfs read the command line and do what is needed otherwise Aug 28 22:22:32 Elrond: sshd might be a tad overkill :-) Aug 28 22:22:45 cw666 - Well, or g_ether. :) Aug 28 22:22:52 s/g_ether/g_serial/ Aug 28 22:22:52 Elrond meant: cw666 - Well, or g_serial. :) Aug 28 22:23:04 altboot in initramfs is an idea ... Aug 28 22:23:17 Elrond: g_serial is what? Aug 28 22:23:41 Elrond: given the kernel comes up with CDD ethernet, the simplest options are NETCONSOLE or telnetd Aug 28 22:23:45 * mickeyl adds to the list of things he wants to play with Aug 28 22:24:15 cw666 - Well, yeah. :) Aug 28 22:24:47 cw666 - g_serial is serial line emulation on usb. Put getty on it, and be done. telnetd would work of course too. Aug 28 22:25:12 Elrond: i'd have to play with unbinding ethernet and binding in serial, i really need a debug board for that though Aug 28 22:25:37 well, maybe ssh over bluetooth would be ok for some experiments, but ssh over bluetooth is such a hacky mess Aug 28 22:26:38 I just had an idea while on the ferry Aug 28 22:26:44 We could write an evil shell script Aug 28 22:26:51 Which would parse the last line of the gsm log Aug 28 22:27:06 cw666 - I think, g_serial and cdc-ethernet should work in paralel? Aug 28 22:27:30 mickeyl: CMD_LINE for initramdisk is something like : root=/dev/ram0 initrd=/path/to/initramdisk, me thinks Aug 28 22:27:34 And take an action based on it (ATZ = stuck ATZ, power off the modem on /sys, wait, power on, wait, etc; AT+COPS = stuck +COPS, kill gsmd, wait a bit, start it again) Aug 28 22:27:52 gentoo used to use this a lot Aug 28 22:27:55 Stick the script before the X loads on init.d, and we would have a modem working most of the time Aug 28 22:28:36 that's a hack. Aug 28 22:28:49 closed gsmd makes life muc harder. Aug 28 22:29:00 thseiler: ah, that's what i wanted to know. thanks Aug 28 22:29:25 cesarb - Oh well, not another hack. Aug 28 22:30:48 mickeyl: I think the kernel has some way of autodetecting if it is fed a classic initrd or an initramfs, so it uses the same interface towards the bootloader Aug 28 22:32:21 fast question - Are there known issues with AT+CPIN and some types of SIM Cards ? I have a USIM and the modem would not accept my PIN code... Aug 28 22:35:26 cesarb: wouln't this better be handled in the gmsd event loop ? Aug 28 22:35:52 thseiler: no, there is no filesystem other than rootfs at that point Aug 28 22:35:55 what gentoo does there i have no idea Aug 28 22:36:37 Elrond: im not sure is that is the case is it? you would need multiple endpoints to get ethernet and serial working and i was under the impression that at present that wasn't possible Aug 28 22:37:12 thseiler: yeah, it would. but it isn't right now Aug 28 22:37:13 cw666 - Ohh, so that's a limitation of the kernel, right? Aug 28 22:37:26 cw666: ok i understand. Aug 28 22:37:30 thseiler: and I for instance have no idea why it sometimes gets stuck on ATZ, for instance Aug 28 22:37:36 s/,for instance// Aug 28 22:37:39 Elrond: i dont think so, it's probably a limitation of the hw Aug 28 22:37:52 Elrond: i really dont know for sure, ive not had time to look into it in any detail Aug 28 22:37:59 cesarb: :-) Aug 28 22:39:19 cw666 - I think, the hw can do like 5 or so endpoints. Aug 28 22:40:10 cesarb: I think, a GSM modem that does not answer a simlpe ATZ in a given timeout merits beeing resetted. Now the big trouble is: Are we capable of resoring as much of the state as the GSM modem had before beeing reset? (like cache the pin, etc...) Aug 28 22:41:43 thseiler: since the ATZ hang is always on the initial startup of gsmd, there's no state to lose Aug 28 22:41:57 thseiler mostly the modem is not stuck. mostly its the flowcontrol configured wrong on your app Aug 28 22:42:59 thseiler: the +COPS hang is cured by restarting gsmd and letting it send its magic initialization commands to the modem, so it's more likely gsmd getting stuck or sending commands too fast and expecting a response which will not come Aug 28 22:43:36 Elrond: have you gotten uboot working with a usb console? Aug 28 22:43:41 openmoko: 03stefan * r2843 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-bt/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-bt.c): Aug 28 22:43:41 openmoko: 2007-08-29 Stefan Schmidt Aug 28 22:43:41 openmoko: * src/openmoko-panel-bt.c: Aug 28 22:43:41 openmoko: Allow applet to turn the bt radio on and off. Patch from Alexandre Aug 28 22:43:41 openmoko: d'Alton (Closes #639) Aug 28 22:43:50 thseiler: but these are only from my experience, which is of the "bash on it until it works" kind, so it might not be completely correct Aug 28 22:47:46 cw666 - Yes, quite nicely. I can "picocom /deb/ttyACM0" from my desktop into u-boot and play with it. Aug 28 22:48:11 Elrond: by choosing the USB console option in the uboot menu? Aug 28 22:49:09 cw666 - a) Just while the menu is displayed b) After enlarging the default bootdelay a lot; while the splash is shown. Aug 28 22:50:40 cesarb: I unfortunately don't have much experience yet with the GSM modem, as it would not take my PIN code yet... (Swisscom USIM). Aug 28 22:51:33 thseiler: you can play with it without a SIM too Aug 28 22:51:44 thseiler: and it won't ask a PIN then Aug 28 22:52:17 Elrond: just tried that now w/o much success Aug 28 22:52:17 thseiler: of course, you can't actually dial, but if you get to where libgsmd-tool -m shell gives you the signal quality, it's already progress Aug 28 22:52:52 cesarb: now *that* would be cool. I will give it another try without sim. Thanks for the tip Aug 28 22:53:14 cw666 - cw666 While the menu is shown, you have lsusb list this: "Bus 001 Device 002: ID 1457:5119 "? Aug 28 22:53:19 yes Aug 28 22:54:01 cesarb: I see as of now that gsmd is started in runlevel 2. Runlevel 1 is empty, and in runlevel 2 we have ssh and bluetooth and some other services starting before gsmd. Aug 28 22:54:23 cesarb: could it be that we are generating high load on the CPU for starting ssh and then Aug 28 22:54:45 cesarb: while the CPU is maxed out, get some communications issued with the modem ? Aug 28 22:55:11 cesarb: did anybody try to move gsmd or dropbear into runlevel 1 ? Aug 28 22:55:36 Elrond: does your kernel have /proc/config.gz ? Aug 28 22:55:45 thseiler: I think it's unlikely, since _slowing_ gsmd down seems to help in some cases from what I've heard around here... Aug 28 22:55:51 cw - And dmesg has this for you: http://en.pastebin.ca/674124 Aug 28 22:55:54 ? Aug 28 22:56:25 Elrond: ok, i think i see the problem here Aug 28 22:57:08 cw666 - You need cdc acm in the kernel. :) Aug 28 22:58:12 Elrond: yeah, i had usbserial, i just looked over the lsusb -v output :-) Aug 28 22:58:32 cesarb: now im surprised / confused... Aug 28 22:58:53 cw666 - Yeah, I made the same mistake :) Aug 28 22:59:41 thseiler: one of the several things speculated (and it's all speculation at this point AFAIK) on this channel is that gsmd is sending commands too soon Aug 28 23:00:06 thseiler: for instance, AT+COPS=0 just after AT+CFUN=1, without waiting for the modem to power up the radio fully Aug 28 23:00:39 thseiler: I did one personal experiment with libgsmd-tool -m shell which seems to confirm it Aug 28 23:00:42 cw666, mickeyl - ( http://en.pastebin.ca/674129 ) There seems to be support for initrd in u-boot. Aug 28 23:00:44 but shouldn't the modem care about that and not stuck? Aug 28 23:01:08 thseiler: if I quickly send "O" and "r", it gets stuck; if I wait a few seconds between these two commands, it registers correctly Aug 28 23:01:15 mickeyl: you're ascribing a high level of quality to a closed source item again :) Aug 28 23:01:27 Stephmw: mmh, ya Aug 28 23:01:28 thseiler: to unstuck it, just power off with "o" and try again... Aug 28 23:01:28 Elrond: right, you can have it external but it's not *required* Aug 28 23:01:33 cesarb: its always save to assume firmware has bugs. Aug 28 23:01:34 thseiler: was very reproducible here Aug 28 23:01:51 Elrond: also, that support is to some address in memory, it's not clear how to make use of that Aug 28 23:02:06 cesarb: now that you mention it, i rember of having had the same issue earlier this evening... Aug 28 23:02:07 thseiler: of course, gsmd is at fault here: it should know what +CFUN=1 means and that it should wait for its answer before issuing any other command Aug 28 23:02:13 thseiler: gsmd pipelines way too much Aug 28 23:02:56 cw666 - Well, reading the initrd from jffs2 / mmc would be one way. Aug 28 23:03:21 mickeyl: having worked for an ODM, I can say with a high certainty that lots of code is held together by sticky tape and chewing gum Aug 28 23:03:26 cw666 - DFU downloading it, doesn't work so nicely, cause dfu always loads to the same adress in ram. :-| Aug 28 23:03:50 cesarb: then we need a bit more of "chat" like behaviour, i.e. waiting for the expected answer Aug 28 23:03:55 Elrond: *why* though? just make a kernel with a suitable embedded initramfs ... why make things harder than that? Aug 28 23:04:36 cw666 - Yeah, that's the other way. Aug 28 23:04:37 * cesarb will test it again today and report on bugzilla so harald can fix at least this instance Aug 28 23:04:57 Stephmw: *sigh* makes me want SCR sooner than later Aug 28 23:05:05 (software controlled radio) Aug 28 23:05:33 mickeyl: then you need molten salt batteries aswell... Aug 28 23:06:20 .oO(and a fancy shoulderstrap to carry the .. eh.. handset) Aug 28 23:06:39 :_) Aug 28 23:07:11 mickeyl: that'll be a regulatory nightmare for GSM though Aug 28 23:07:15 roh: just make the "lunchbox" be the handset itself Aug 28 23:07:39 Stephmw: no doubt Aug 28 23:08:18 cesarb,roh: and you need a second one for the antenna assoriment Aug 28 23:08:27 Stephmw: the only way to make it stick would be to devise a new radio protocol (a p2p one maybe?) on a less-regulated band, and hope it grows enough to make the older protocols less relevant Aug 28 23:08:53 cesarb: have a read of the mailing list on that topic Aug 28 23:09:01 cesarb: it's been well discussed Aug 28 23:09:30 * cesarb thinks an "all out" band, where you can send everything you want as long as it's less than a specific power limit, would be cool Aug 28 23:11:12 cesarb thats sadly not avaiable worldwide Aug 28 23:21:33 cesarb: there are 3 major problems: 1) no good (tamper proof) MAC Protocol 2) Power consumption 3) Node Density Paradoxon. The thread in the mailinglist is quite extensive... Aug 28 23:23:08 me thinks that gsmd.c already implements a wait for the first response. That would happen to be the OK after ATZ. We would just need the same mechanism for AT+CFUN=1. I will give it a try, ...tomorrow ;-) Aug 28 23:23:23 * thseiler has forgotten the slash... Aug 28 23:34:09 anyone about? Aug 28 23:35:40 openmoko: 03mickey * r2844 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/po/Makefile.in.in: openmoko-mediaplayer2: add po/Makefile.in.in Aug 28 23:41:21 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Software_Bluetooth_HID_Keyboard]] [[Bluetooth]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 28 23:43:54 * * OM Bug 766 has been created by cesarb(AT)cesarb.net Aug 28 23:43:55 * * gsmd misbehaves on back-to-back AT+CFUN=1/AT+COPS=0 Aug 28 23:43:56 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=766 Aug 28 23:44:16 openmoko: 03mickey * r2845 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-mediaplayer2: fix i18n Aug 28 23:44:32 'night Aug 28 23:44:37 g'night stefan_schmidt Aug 28 23:44:42 ~lart tab completion Aug 28 23:44:43 * apt puts tab completion into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of tab completion's hair of Aug 28 23:50:11 * cesarb would love if bitbake had an "autoclean" mode to delete outdated ipk files, work directories, and images Aug 28 23:50:36 Every day a simple "make update && make all" eats an extra couple of gigabytes Aug 28 23:50:42 It should not grow as much Aug 28 23:51:30 cesarb - *duck* "disk space is cheap" is the usual crap statement to this. ;o) Aug 28 23:51:51 Anyway. Good night people. Aug 28 23:52:42 Elrond: yeah, disk space is cheap. it's also easily filled by random data, so when you look you have nothing left Aug 28 23:52:53 * * OM Bug 767 has been created by giles.jones(AT)zen.co.uk Aug 28 23:52:54 * * Usability issues in combo box menus Aug 28 23:52:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=767 Aug 28 23:52:56 cesarb: you have INHERIT += "rm_work" Aug 28 23:52:57 Elrond: parkinson's law of data strikes again Aug 28 23:53:02 cesarb: in your local.conf? Aug 28 23:53:20 erk. wait, you're not using mokomakefile. Aug 28 23:53:25 ferric: that would only solve (in a kludgy way) the problem with the work area, but not with the outdated built packages or images Aug 28 23:53:42 ferric: I am using mokomakefile. I have even contributed several patches to it. Aug 28 23:54:08 ferric: I'm also using a local overlay, which makes it pretty easy for me to add extra settings to my tree if I want to Aug 28 23:57:12 something like INHERIT += "rm_outdated" would rock Aug 28 23:57:43 ynezz: precisely Aug 28 23:57:56 ynezz: on the apt world, we have "apt-get autoclean" Aug 28 23:58:06 yes, indeed. Aug 28 23:58:09 * ferric goes off to dinner. Aug 28 23:58:17 i haven't played with my moko in a while Aug 28 23:58:17 :( Aug 28 23:59:22 anyone give me advice on getting GSM working from the GUI Aug 28 23:59:51 it's while it's trying to register with network Aug 29 00:00:08 it refreshed the command every 5 seconds - when I do it manually it takes about 8 and then it works Aug 29 00:00:21 So mixer levels definitely aren't quite right: "There's a strange echo---I can hear myself" was my wife's reaction when I called her. Aug 29 00:00:47 Might be a nice phone in the winter time... it seems to warm up my ear quite a bit... Aug 29 00:01:38 bbl Aug 29 00:01:55 cworth: it's warm because the power management nowadays could be best described as what we in the x86 world know as 0x90 Aug 29 00:04:52 cesarb we have power management? (besides display off and suspend to ram after x minutes) Aug 29 00:05:09 that was his point :) Aug 29 00:05:23 ;) Aug 29 00:05:48 sooo.. mate, breakfast, change of location.. bbl Aug 29 00:05:55 roh: 0x90 is the opcode for NOP, in case you don't want to look it up ;-) Aug 29 00:06:06 i know... Aug 29 00:06:20 just wanted to tease you guys Aug 29 00:12:44 cworth: what kernel & rootfs version are you running? Aug 29 00:13:43 andylockran: the infinite COPS bug is solved by the latest openmoko-dialer package Aug 29 00:14:05 it still requires a gsmd restart in the matchbox session file however Aug 29 00:14:15 (to fix the initial gsmd hang problem) Aug 29 00:14:38 right, so the matchbox fix isn't done in the later kernels? Aug 29 00:14:54 sorry - late.. latter images Aug 29 00:15:25 andylockran: From http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ : Aug 29 00:15:33 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r1-fic-gta01.bin Aug 29 00:15:38 OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-P1-August-Snapshot-20070828-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 Aug 29 00:15:58 cworth: thanks Aug 29 00:16:07 * cworth thinks we could use shorter filenames... Aug 29 00:16:08 rwhitby: I just filed ombug 766, which is sort of related Aug 29 00:16:19 I'm using a may 19th version of uboot (and no debug board) Aug 29 00:16:25 cworth: nah, we should use bigger ones Aug 29 00:16:38 is a nand erase worth it before I re-flash? Aug 29 00:16:39 cworth: big enough that windows filesystems can't save them Aug 29 00:17:01 yeah, the rootfs name should have the compatible kernel version name in it too Aug 29 00:17:03 * cesarb sometimes dreams of naming files with inocuous names like "aux.c" on his projects Aug 29 00:17:59 I think it's a good place to put the names of the contributors Aug 29 00:18:50 sorry - in all seriousness do I _have_ to update my uboot Aug 29 00:19:21 andylockran: not for any gsmd reasons - just remember to erase the rootfs before dfu-util each time Aug 29 00:21:14 ok Aug 29 00:22:44 2 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- rejects in file src/openmoko-panel-bt.c Aug 29 00:28:53 * * OM Bug 768 has been created by abraxa(AT)dar-clan.de Aug 29 00:28:54 * * Bitbake recipes for uriparser/libSpiff Aug 29 00:28:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=768 Aug 29 00:29:53 * * OM Bug 769 has been created by abraxa(AT)dar-clan.de Aug 29 00:29:54 * * Bitbake recipes for uriparser/libSpiff Aug 29 00:29:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=769 Aug 29 00:30:14 oops. Aug 29 00:40:20 openmoko: 03alphaone * r2846 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/ (24 files in 5 dirs): Aug 29 00:40:20 openmoko: 2007-08-29 Daniel Willmann Aug 29 00:40:20 openmoko: openmoko-panel-plugins: Reduce the width of the panel icons to the Aug 29 00:40:20 openmoko: amount necessary (they were always square before). This should free Aug 29 00:40:20 openmoko: up panel space a bit. Aug 29 01:12:28 uh, is it normal for battvolt to be 4236? Aug 29 01:15:30 root@fic-gta01:~$ (for x in `seq 1 20`; do sleep 1; echo -n `cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008/battvolt` ''; done) Aug 29 01:15:37 4201 4201 4207 4212 4212 4207 4207 4236 4195 4242 4195 4207 4195 4201 4207 4207 4195 4218 4224 4207 Aug 29 01:16:51 doh, I just did ipkg upgrade and got the new kernel modules for 2.6.22.5-moko11 Aug 29 01:17:27 Does anyone know where I can get the kernel image to match it? Aug 29 01:19:07 gcb77: probably http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/, which is the same place ipkg gets its .ipk from (give or take a few directories) Aug 29 01:20:15 I think these updates came from ScaredyCat's repo... that kernel image is not on the buildhost Aug 29 01:20:47 gcb77: it's possible that the buildhost didn't build the kernel image yet Aug 29 01:21:30 gcb77: ...but that repository doesn't seem to have any 2.6.22 modules... Aug 29 01:21:51 gcb77: get the repository URL, shave off a few directories, and try to get to the images directory Aug 29 01:30:47 got it, http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ Aug 29 01:35:34 99,998 writes left on my flash, 99,998, you take one down, flash it around, 99,997 writes left... Aug 29 01:36:29 lol Aug 29 01:39:58 gcb77: if we had a "bash" page on the wiki, that would be instantly in it Aug 29 01:40:41 uh oh, this new kernel/modules combo has a minor issue... Aug 29 01:41:20 In in "Dim Only" power mode it doesn't reset the timer when you touch the screen... or bring it back after it goes off Aug 29 01:42:19 /media/card is not mounted Aug 29 02:10:20 yoyo Aug 29 02:37:59 hi all Aug 29 02:39:59 hellos Aug 29 02:55:55 Morning all. Aug 29 02:56:16 I have successfully changed my gprs to on-demand, idle-hangup Aug 29 02:56:51 sagacis: good luck with your wallet Aug 29 02:57:06 heh. Assuming they did as asked, I have the unlimited data plan. Aug 29 02:58:02 sagacis: what sort of performance can you get with gprs? Aug 29 02:58:43 Not particularly good since it's only base gprs (no EDGE, no 3G), but better than nothing. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 29 02:59:56 2007