**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 31 02:59:56 2007 Aug 31 03:01:12 cesarb: the best link I found was at http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2007/08/calibrating-openmoko-v20072.html Aug 31 03:21:03 should i use ipkg with a GTA01b4 phone? Aug 31 03:22:41 Works for me. Aug 31 03:27:42 so i'm confused... will it benefit me to use ipkg or is there really no need for it with a GTA01b4 phone Aug 31 03:28:41 It lets you update your software. Aug 31 03:28:44 That's always pleasant. Aug 31 03:29:04 ok thank you Aug 31 03:29:08 I'm faced with finding a new portable ogg player. Do you think I can realistically use the neo for that, or will the battery life or sound quality not be up to par? Aug 31 03:29:51 Battery life is gonna suck. Aug 31 03:29:55 It has no separate audio DSP Aug 31 03:31:40 Aria: actually, people have been experimenting Aug 31 03:31:49 Aria: it's not as sucky as you would expect Aug 31 03:31:57 * Aria shrugs. Aug 31 03:32:06 Struth. It'll last some hours. Aug 31 03:34:44 10 hours looks plausible. Aug 31 03:36:10 how do i download ipkg, im completly confused... am i supposed top download 'Familiar' Aug 31 03:36:55 Log into your phone. Aug 31 03:36:57 type ipkg update Aug 31 03:37:01 then ipkg upgrade Aug 31 03:37:05 or ipkg install packagename Aug 31 03:37:56 anthony_: ipkg is a tool (like 'rm' or 'cat') which is already installed on the phone. Aug 31 03:38:06 oh ok Aug 31 03:38:14 The Familiar linux distribution uses ipkg. So does OpenMoko. So does nslu2-linux. Aug 31 03:38:30 So does Angstrom Aug 31 03:38:41 think of it like 'dpkg' or 'yum' Aug 31 03:39:20 so how would i get to where i can type ipkg update.... ive only been using linux for like 2 months... so yeah im horrible with it Aug 31 03:39:40 ssh into the phone, or use the terminal on the phone Aug 31 03:39:41 anthony_: use the terminal that is on the phone. Aug 31 03:40:01 that clears up lots Aug 31 03:40:17 so I guess I'll want to get a replacement player. Ok, thanks. Aug 31 03:40:19 rwhitby: Good day. I saw you removed some of the old nslu2 references from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2... Aug 31 03:40:23 (still getting the neo for sure though ;) ) Aug 31 03:40:45 rwhitby: The section had an apt-get list for dependencies that we seem to have lost Aug 31 03:41:19 anthony_: (BTW, if you've only been using linux for 2 months, then you will need to climb that learning curve steeply before you will reach the level that is assumed of the developers to which the P1 developer release was targetted) Aug 31 03:41:35 sagacis: it should be in the OEAndYourDistro page on the OE wiki Aug 31 03:41:47 OK, I'll look there. Thanks Aug 31 03:41:56 haha oh god i know .... im kinda regretting buying it Aug 31 03:42:01 but its neat Aug 31 03:42:10 sagacis: (the MokoMakefile page says to go and do those steps first) Aug 31 03:42:13 and im learning a lot Aug 31 03:43:31 anthony_: ok. I would give some advice that you will want to run linux on a Ubuntu desktop as well, and get some books to learn the linux command line. If you start asking lots of basic linux user questions in this channel there's a good chance you will start to irritate people :-) Aug 31 03:44:19 if you're someone who's keen to climb that learning curve, then you'll have a lot of fun doing so. Aug 31 03:45:04 (replace 'Ubuntu' with your favourite linux desktop distro if you like in the above statement) Aug 31 03:45:06 rwhitby: Yes it does. However, help2man seems to be missing from the OEAndYourDistro page. Aug 31 03:45:18 sagacis: please add it then Aug 31 03:45:21 im using ubuntu its real nice and i like a lot.... and yes i know this is like the second time asking anything... i try to figure things out my own i swear Aug 31 03:45:26 rwhitby: Doing just that ;-) Aug 31 03:45:32 sagacis: thx Aug 31 03:45:37 anthony_: good deal Aug 31 03:48:36 sagacis: texi2html is needed also Aug 31 03:50:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Contacts/2007.2]] [[User:Davioh]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Cleveland]] [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] Aug 31 03:55:17 nifty Aug 31 03:55:28 * hozer plays music on his neo from his AFS server Aug 31 03:55:52 * hozer is surprised to find out the kernel afs client seems to work well enough Aug 31 04:05:40 ok i feel real dumb asking this but i cant seem to find the keyboard to type on the terminal... in 2007.2 Aug 31 04:06:47 utilities, input manager Aug 31 04:07:01 in the 'today' application Aug 31 04:07:24 though it may still kick you to the calculator app, just to be special Aug 31 04:07:37 * rwhitby has reliable GSM registration on boot now, with just the gsmd restart in matchbox/session Aug 31 04:07:42 which means you would need to pick input manager from the dropdown list of all apps Aug 31 04:07:49 rwhitby: excellent! Aug 31 04:08:14 rwhitby: I've been having reduced luck with the gsmd restart lately. Aug 31 04:08:23 well, reliable means three boots in a row so far ... Aug 31 04:08:23 awesome thank you so much Aug 31 04:08:24 I just updated my device, so maybe it will be better. Aug 31 04:08:27 heh Aug 31 04:08:47 * ajmitch should run an update/upgrade again Aug 31 04:09:02 I wouldn't mind being able to make a phone call for the first time from the dialer :) Aug 31 04:09:06 rwhitby: Also, I can't seem to edit the OEAndYourDistro wiki page. There doesn't seem to be anywhere for me to create a login, and if I try to edit, it throws me to a blank page. Aug 31 04:09:17 the new kernel is good to, cause now I can charge the neo from a windows box Aug 31 04:09:30 sagacis: need to ask about that in #oe - i don't run that wiki Aug 31 04:09:35 Yay! Aug 31 04:09:45 too bad I don't have a windows box to charge from... Aug 31 04:09:50 time for me to reflash the kernel then Aug 31 04:09:59 Ah, the update wiped out my etc/matchbox/session Aug 31 04:10:12 rwhitby: Thanks. I'll ask there. Aug 31 04:10:23 how should I select between building 2.6.21 & 2.6.22 with mokomakefile? Aug 31 04:10:38 I initially flashed with a 2.6.22 image Aug 31 04:10:44 ajmitch: .21 is good enough for me Aug 31 04:10:56 yeah, I might just downgrade after this rebuilds Aug 31 04:10:57 I failed when building .22 just now. Aug 31 04:10:58 I just use whatever is built by default. Aug 31 04:11:10 * ajmitch should Aug 31 04:11:18 since I don't plan to do kernel hacking Aug 31 04:11:47 and then I ipkg upgrade from the nslu2-linux repo, since it has the whole openmoko-feed.bb available for ipkg install Aug 31 04:12:35 I believe that's enabled by default, isn't it? Aug 31 04:12:37 * ajmitch checks Aug 31 04:13:08 hey everyone, i'm way new to all this Aug 31 04:13:12 Is .21 or .22 default at the moment? Aug 31 04:13:27 .21 I believe Aug 31 04:13:29 hm, I guess not Aug 31 04:13:55 I'm running a .21 kernel but an ipkg upgrade pulled in a bunch of .22 modules I think. Aug 31 04:14:07 So you'll have to upgrade the kernel now. Aug 31 04:14:10 hads: managed to dial yet? :) Aug 31 04:14:11 dfu-util time! Aug 31 04:14:42 ajmitch: I can dial and get the Vodafone lady telling me my SIM isn't allowed to make calls :) Aug 31 04:14:50 excellent! Aug 31 04:14:54 I haven't got that far yet Aug 31 04:15:02 Here's my build failure: "net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c:545: fatal error: internal consistency failure" Aug 31 04:15:03 That's with a gsmd restart it the matchbox session Aug 31 04:15:11 hey.. can ipkg use 'file' instead of http? Aug 31 04:15:28 Yep. Just give it names of .ipk files to install Aug 31 04:15:39 no, I mean like ipkg update Aug 31 04:15:43 Aria: The .21 modules seem to be left on the fs anyway so I can still boot. Aug 31 04:15:54 Good, good. There's no modules needed to boot. Aug 31 04:16:00 Just post-boot stuff. Aug 31 04:16:02 hads: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/unstable/fic-gta01/ tells me that 2.6.22.5 is the current build Aug 31 04:16:07 (might be empty dirs there) Aug 31 04:16:19 I want to put my buildhost stuff on AFS and then just access the metadata/packages/etc files without copying them to the local flash Aug 31 04:16:50 Aria: I see. Ah yes, just a load of empty dirs. Aug 31 04:17:14 rwhitby: Yeah, that's what I thought too from looking on buildhost. Aug 31 04:17:25 so, yeah, 2.6.22 is current Aug 31 04:17:40 * rwhitby goes to lunch Aug 31 04:17:43 I might reflash then since I've already got the modules for it :) Aug 31 04:19:45 I'd reflash except that I won't have net access for the weekend :) Aug 31 04:23:28 it's late. I'm gone... Aug 31 04:23:44 * ajmitch might get his microSD card going as well Aug 31 04:24:55 .22 seems to work fine here so far. Aug 31 04:25:19 * ajmitch still has uImage that was flashed when the phone arrived Aug 31 04:27:50 Back to work for me anyway. Aug 31 04:41:16 moin Aug 31 04:43:37 rwhitby: Charging from Windows is good, but will it be able to charge from a wall socket or car charger that doesn't negotiate power? Aug 31 05:50:25 I'm trying to track down this file in SVN, and I'm confused on something... Aug 31 05:50:44 The file is: /trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/src/matchbox-keyboard-ui.c Aug 31 05:51:38 The current revision is 1625, but I looks like matchbox-keyboard was built with version 1254 Aug 31 05:52:19 I'm basing that on the debug messages. The line numbers match revision 1254 Aug 31 05:53:04 Is the app really being built based on that version or am I missing something? Aug 31 06:01:11 PING 1188539663 275621 Aug 31 06:02:24 gcb77: openmoko-keyboard_svn.bb in OE says: Aug 31 06:02:37 SRC_URI = "${OPENMOKO_MIRROR}/src/target/${OPENMOKO_RELEASE}/inputmethods;module=${PN}; Aug 31 06:04:59 this line says nothing to people not working with OE :) Aug 31 06:05:20 gcb77: but yes, you're true it don't use latest svn version Aug 31 06:06:12 * gcb77 is running "grep -R OPENMOKO_RELEASE" in /home/moko Aug 31 06:06:37 oe/packages is enough :) Aug 31 06:06:51 otherwise you'll get your results tommorow :p Aug 31 06:14:33 there's something weird going on with revision numbers in the official feeds anyway. Aug 31 06:16:30 SpeedEvil: about? Aug 31 06:16:56 the 2007.08 snapshot has gsmd_0.1+svnr2744-r19_fic-gta01.ipk, whilst my mokomakefile build creates gsmd_0.1+svnnow-r19_fic-gta01.ipk Aug 31 06:18:22 (on debian etch, whereas on xubuntu I get gsmd_0.1+svn20070829-r21_armv4t.ipk Aug 31 06:18:41 rwhitby: I had trouble two days ago with the kernel versions. I got the .21 kernel uImage, but I'm pretty sure the modules in the rootfs were .22 Aug 31 06:18:55 After building my own with the makefile that is Aug 31 06:19:21 does anyone have any details on how to calibrate the battery and charger details? Aug 31 06:19:46 rwhitby: That's very weird indeed. Aug 31 06:20:08 I mean that your version differ between deb and xubuntu Aug 31 06:21:11 yeah, I need to closely investigate this. Having differing version numbers on the packages will really screw up ipkg upgrade Aug 31 06:21:27 (that's how I noticed it earlier today) Aug 31 06:23:09 * rwhitby does bitbake -c rebuild gsmd on all his different machines to see what each does ... Aug 31 06:29:10 rwhitby, i have strange messages from ipkg - may those are related? Aug 31 06:31:50 rwhitby, ipkg always says "Multiple packages (libeet0 and libeet0) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest." for all packages i build myself... Aug 31 06:32:51 mdt: that's cause the version your locally installing doesn't match the version it has in the lists from the feeds Aug 31 06:33:15 that's why it's best to set up your own feed and use that. Aug 31 06:33:31 rwhitby, hm. but even if i empty the feedlist i get this message... Aug 31 06:33:51 that's cause the status file still has the old package in it Aug 31 06:33:57 rwhitby, yes i would like to, but where do i get a Packages.gz? Aug 31 06:34:07 bitbake package-index Aug 31 06:34:13 rwhitby, how do i update the status file? Aug 31 06:34:22 by installing or removing a package Aug 31 06:34:47 there is no target package-index :/ Aug 31 06:36:36 bitbake, not make Aug 31 06:36:56 rwhitby, oups, sorry... Aug 31 06:37:08 make sure you follow the instructions on the mokomakefile wiki page on how to set up for running bitbake directly Aug 31 06:47:07 openmoko: 03jserv * r2866 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/ (Makefile.am main.c): Aug 31 06:47:07 openmoko: Added automagic inclusion of the svn source tree version. Aug 31 06:47:07 openmoko: This should fix bugzilla #721 Aug 31 06:47:07 openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=721 Aug 31 06:57:16 does the openmoko team use any sort of standard benchmarks to test out the hardware and the platform? Aug 31 07:00:44 dsilva: quake2 fps bench Aug 31 07:01:00 hah Aug 31 07:01:26 can run quake2 or not? Aug 31 07:01:35 probably if you build it Aug 31 07:01:40 i wouldnt expect great speed Aug 31 07:01:45 like the new vw beetle ads... "0-60: yes" Aug 31 07:01:58 years ago we have doom working on a 500MHz MIPS SoC Aug 31 07:02:11 it was playable ... but not great Aug 31 07:04:49 cw666: There's even doom for the ipod, so i guess it should run on the neo too :D Aug 31 07:04:59 * rwhitby gets the net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c:545: fatal error: internal consistency failure error too Aug 31 07:06:10 rwhitby: time to hurt whomever though updating the compiler was a good idea Aug 31 07:06:13 SpeedEvil: dfu-util -V is fixed! (It was you who made fun of that one or?) Aug 31 07:06:43 hello Aug 31 07:06:51 CM: ipod has a tiny screen though, this was vga output we had working Aug 31 07:07:01 well, pretend vga using an fpga Aug 31 07:07:08 :) Aug 31 07:07:28 is there a fix for the webkit do_compile problem? Aug 31 07:07:29 tandem12: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 31 07:08:45 tandem12: Paste what went wrong into pastebin and maybe someone know what you need to do to get around it Aug 31 07:08:53 cw666: was that the gcc-cross-4.1.2-r4 to gcc-cross-4.1.2-r5 change? Aug 31 07:09:15 cd: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/webkit-gtk-0.0+svn20070831-r1//JavaScriptCore/pcre: No such file or directory Aug 31 07:09:25 rwhitby: not 100% sure, i'm not updating to find out Aug 31 07:09:46 a working compiler is very important to me Aug 31 07:10:28 tandem12: I don't know. Compiling now, I'll see if I get the same issue Aug 31 07:11:00 i think, that openmoko-image itself is a good test suite for compiler :) Aug 31 07:11:16 notice the two slashes in the path name Aug 31 07:11:52 ynezz: not really, since it doesnt run during the build Aug 31 07:12:12 ynezz: and your end result is very large and complex, you have idea if a failure is a compiler issue or bad code Aug 31 07:12:25 tandem12: i think, that it shouldn't cause the problem Aug 31 07:14:22 one more quick question: I'm trying to run gdb on matchbox-keyboard and I keep getting "(no debugging symbols found)" even tho I loaded matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod-dbg Aug 31 07:14:41 any tips on what else I could try? Aug 31 07:15:18 I would try to compile it with -g flag by hand Aug 31 07:15:35 ynezz: the path name is missing 'WebKitBuilds/Debug' Aug 31 07:18:15 hi all Aug 31 07:18:30 Is there a fix for mtd-utils now? Aug 31 07:19:15 fix for what? Aug 31 07:19:50 Is there a way to tell OE or bitbake to make everything with -g? Aug 31 07:19:54 ERROR: Build of /home/squalyl/OE/openembedded/packages/mtd/mtd-utils-native_1.0.0+git.bb do_compile failed Aug 31 07:21:34 My build just failed when compiling the kernel Aug 31 07:22:19 :( Aug 31 07:22:40 squalyl: this tells nothing, pastebin the build log Aug 31 07:23:00 do_compile. Aug 31 07:23:30 CM: seems like a problem with compiler, but it's not confirmed yet Aug 31 07:23:48 ynezz: Ok, thanks Aug 31 07:24:49 if it's that 'net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c:545: fatal error: internal consistency failure error' Aug 31 07:25:54 Yes, exactly that one Aug 31 07:26:30 you really dont need NF in your kernel Aug 31 07:26:40 just config that out for now Aug 31 07:26:55 ynezz, CM: i have the same error Aug 31 07:27:07 i'm not going to fix it :p Aug 31 07:27:20 ynezz: You lazy ass.. ;) Aug 31 07:28:27 either don't use gcc-cross-4.1.2-r5, or remove that module in defconfig Aug 31 07:28:50 ynezz: Have you filed a bug about it? Aug 31 07:29:29 09:04:42 * rwhitby gets the net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c:545: fatal error: internal consistency failure error too Aug 31 07:30:05 ynezz: i have the proper directory structure in previous builds: ./build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/webkit-gtk-0.0+svn20070830-r1/JavaScriptCore/pcre/dftables.c Aug 31 07:31:07 nice, so something must changed Aug 31 07:32:02 openmoko: 03laforge * r2867 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/defconfig-2.6.22.5-fic-gta01: defconfig for current kernel Aug 31 07:33:17 Here is the pastebin for my yesterday build http://pastebin.org/1487 Aug 31 07:36:50 should I be concerned about this? "NOTE: preferred version 2.5 of glibc not available (for item virtual/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-libc-for-gcc)" Aug 31 07:37:22 tandem12: No, I get that all the time Aug 31 07:38:08 CM: did WebKit compile for you? Aug 31 07:38:30 I don't know because I didn Aug 31 07:38:37 't get past the kernel compile Aug 31 07:39:52 * tandem12 wondering if anyone has had successful compile in past 24 hours Aug 31 07:51:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] Aug 31 07:51:43 me shakes head Aug 31 07:52:05 tandem12: NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 3352 tasks of which 3350 didn't need to be rerun and 0 failed. NOTE: build 200708310922: completed Aug 31 07:55:35 this command failed: "mkdir -p /home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/webkit-gtk-0.0+svn20070831-r1//WebKitBuilds/Debug/JavaScriptCore/pcre/tmp/" Aug 31 07:55:53 doesn't like the double slashes in the path name Aug 31 07:57:08 ynezz@wizard:~$ mkdir -p west//test Aug 31 07:57:09 ynezz@wizard:~$ ls -ald west/test Aug 31 07:57:12 drwxr-xr-x 2 ynezz ynezz 4096 2007-08-31 09:56 west/test Aug 31 07:57:46 maybe you've brokem mkdir? :p Aug 31 07:57:47 wtf does this mean? Aug 31 07:57:49 CC [M] net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.o Aug 31 07:57:49 | net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c: In function 'nat_callforwarding': Aug 31 07:57:49 | net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c:545: fatal error: internal consistency failure Aug 31 07:57:51 tandem12: What shell do you use? Aug 31 07:58:06 bash Aug 31 07:58:11 ScaredyCat: 09:04:42 * rwhitby gets the net/ipv4/netfilter/nf_nat_h323.c:545: fatal error: internal consistency failure error too Aug 31 07:58:13 ScaredyCat: We all get it.. ynezz thinks it's a compiler issue Aug 31 07:58:41 tandem12: Ok. Was some trouble with people using dash before, so I had to ask. :) Aug 31 07:59:00 seriously, someone should actually bother to test that this shit compiles *before* foisting it on us... Aug 31 07:59:31 * FuzzyCat vlames CM Aug 31 07:59:36 then Aug 31 07:59:39 * FuzzyCat blames CM Aug 31 07:59:45 * ScaredyCat joins in Aug 31 08:02:40 FuzzyCat: :P Aug 31 08:03:24 * CM waits for Sept 19-20 Aug 31 08:05:07 how does the ./build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/webkit-gtk-0.0+svn20070831-r1/temp/run.do_compile.XXXXX file get generated? Aug 31 08:05:30 it is regenerated for each invocation of the build Aug 31 08:05:47 have you tried the mkdir command manually tandem12 ? Aug 31 08:05:56 yes, it fails Aug 31 08:06:12 just fails no error? Aug 31 08:06:48 yes, no error Aug 31 08:07:38 correction, ignore the above posts Aug 31 08:10:53 succeeds using bash Aug 31 08:11:53 tandem12 :D Aug 31 08:12:06 very strange Aug 31 08:12:17 wetware interface error ? Aug 31 08:16:54 FuzzyCat: Maybe a pebkac, but not a ID 10 T error ;) Aug 31 08:17:32 roflmao Aug 31 08:21:49 pathname is missing "WebKitBuilds/Debug" following "//" Aug 31 08:21:58 rwhitby, i get an error creating the Package file: "ipkg-make-index: command not found" any idea? Aug 31 08:35:23 mdt: what's 'ls -l /usr/bin/python' say? Aug 31 08:35:38 :D it's a link to python2.4 Aug 31 08:36:13 ...and works fine. i just do `make update-makefile && make setup && make update` - maybe something is screwed up there... Aug 31 08:36:34 none of those things will affect ipkg-make-index Aug 31 08:37:02 * XorA watches his bv3 scroll with canot get bus messages Aug 31 08:37:49 people suffering wierd crashes while compiling openmoko, please update and try again, hrw just killed the likely culprit for the problem Aug 31 08:49:31 rwhitby, okay, i found the cause: bitbake now needs to be run in build/ ... is that correct? Aug 31 08:52:54 gcc patches XorA? Aug 31 08:53:40 ScaredyCat: we assume so Aug 31 08:54:04 * ScaredyCat is rebuilding Aug 31 08:54:50 well, it lasted longer :) Aug 31 08:58:39 good morning Aug 31 08:59:24 morning Aug 31 09:12:50 hi guys Aug 31 09:15:20 XorA: It compiled just fine now :D Aug 31 09:18:48 what part of openmoko does the mount of the sd-card? it always mounts it as vfat without partitions which is not correct in my case... Aug 31 09:23:43 this time webkit fails Aug 31 09:31:58 mdt: udev Aug 31 09:32:23 XorA, it mounts /dev/mmcblk0 as vfat which has partitions... Aug 31 09:32:48 XorA, for now i put it into /etc/udev/mount.blacklist but why dosn't it notice that? Aug 31 09:33:18 XorA, especially because i put /dev/mmcblk0p1 into /etc/fstab Aug 31 09:34:04 mdt: no idea, works fine here on Neo and Zaurus Aug 31 09:34:26 XorA, do you have ext2 partitions on the sd? Aug 31 09:35:47 mdt: I had a fat on it until I reformatted and it worked Aug 31 09:35:59 XorA, do you have ext2 partitions on the sd? Aug 31 09:36:14 mdt: I do now, but I didnt before Aug 31 09:36:46 XorA, and it mounts /dev/mmcblk0p1 without anythin about it in /etc/fstab? Aug 31 09:37:02 mdt: yes Aug 31 09:37:15 mdt: unless something changed VERY recently Aug 31 09:37:25 XorA, perhaps i should just remove the entry from fstab Aug 31 09:39:57 mdt: was your card once formatted as fat with no partitions, i wonder if there is still enough of a old fat on it, the auto mounter detects that? Aug 31 09:39:59 XorA, strange... Aug 31 09:40:12 XorA, seems so Aug 31 09:40:31 i try dd if=/dev/zero.... ;) Aug 31 09:40:48 if there is nothing of value on card you can dd if=dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0 count=64 and then repartition Aug 31 09:40:56 mdt: you beat me to it :-) Aug 31 09:43:38 XorA, okay, that worked.. Aug 31 09:43:44 mdt: YAY Aug 31 09:44:04 thnx alot... Aug 31 09:44:32 is someone here also playing with edje/evas...? i get coredumps with that... Aug 31 09:45:47 is there a way to clobber all package that i build but not remove the cross compile tools? Aug 31 09:47:16 clobber ? Aug 31 09:47:45 mdt: i'm interested in that. please open a bugentry and i'll take a look (evas coredump) Aug 31 09:48:20 hm, 640*480.. Aug 31 09:48:26 starcraft! Aug 31 09:49:06 zash_se: Hehe.. I wish! Aug 31 09:49:14 mickey|zzZZzz, if i do a make clobber everything including the toolchain is removed. this builds 20h on my system. i just would like to remove the package that i have build Aug 31 09:49:36 s/mickey|zzZZzz/mickey|MDD07:/ Aug 31 09:49:36 mdt meant: mickey|MDD07:, if i do a make clobber everything including the toolchain is removed. this builds 20h on my system. i just would like to remove the package that i have build Aug 31 09:49:55 mdt: finish packaged staging Aug 31 09:50:08 hmm Aug 31 09:50:12 i'm unfamiliar with make clobber Aug 31 09:50:16 is that a mokomakefile thing? Aug 31 09:50:20 rod ? Aug 31 09:50:26 yes Aug 31 09:50:28 aah Aug 31 09:50:37 what does it actually do and what would you like it to do Aug 31 09:50:46 mickey|MDD07, where should i report the bug against evas...? Aug 31 09:50:56 mdt: bugs.openembedded.org Aug 31 09:51:01 it blows everyhting away.. and then you have to aait 12 hours :) Aug 31 09:51:06 mtd: you can always use direct bitbake commands Aug 31 09:51:08 mickey|MDD07, it deletes almost everything you build. Aug 31 09:51:09 CM: sc dosnt require more than 1-button mouse, and the sysreqs is way below the neo Aug 31 09:51:09 i.e. Aug 31 09:51:10 s/aait/wait/ Aug 31 09:51:11 FuzzyCat meant: it blows everyhting away.. and then you have to wait 12 hours :) Aug 31 09:51:12 bitbake -c clean Aug 31 09:51:25 or rm'ing tmp/deploy/ipk/* Aug 31 09:51:33 FuzzyCat, 12? hm Aug 31 09:51:43 well, ish.. worst case Aug 31 09:52:00 depends on your machine... Aug 31 09:52:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[User:ThomasWood]] [[P1_Owners]] Aug 31 09:52:03 mickey|MDD07, that leaves the downloaded sources, the logs, the ... inplace Aug 31 09:52:12 sure Aug 31 09:52:17 FuzzyCat, i have a slow one... ;) Aug 31 09:52:21 bitbake -c clean just removes a package Aug 31 09:52:28 it doensn't even remove the ipk though Aug 31 09:52:41 so the question would be what exactly do you want to have ? Aug 31 09:52:45 mickey|MDD07, i don't even know the package i want to remove Aug 31 09:52:56 well, so you want to remove everything but the toolchain? Aug 31 09:53:03 how about building nano Aug 31 09:53:06 cp'ing your build dir Aug 31 09:53:09 mickey|MDD07, i would like to remove everything i build but the cross compile env Aug 31 09:53:14 and then use this as template Aug 31 09:53:19 copy it back when you want to have a fresh start Aug 31 09:53:21 that's what i'm doing Aug 31 09:53:43 what's nano? this editor? Aug 31 09:58:15 ya Aug 31 09:58:23 just my random tiny thing that make it build a toolchain Aug 31 10:02:18 erm... What's up with webkit now, It worked yesterday ! what's broken? Aug 31 10:02:30 Webkit fails on some libicui18n error for me. What bb file builds that? Aug 31 10:02:34 http://rafb.net/p/wDHrvw61.html Aug 31 10:02:58 it says : /home/squalyl/OE/openembedded/packages/webkit/webkit-gtk_svn.bb, do_compile Aug 31 10:03:48 after looking at the log, it's the same bug for me Aug 31 10:04:56 Some kind of abi borkage, but I don't know where or how Aug 31 10:05:09 we cant exclude webkit from the build, can we? Aug 31 10:05:32 I think it's a dependancy of feed-reader only so far Aug 31 10:05:48 I'm investigating that Aug 31 10:07:06 I just commented the feedreader line in task-openmoko.bb Aug 31 10:07:25 let's see what happens now Aug 31 10:08:30 okay webkit tasks were skipped Aug 31 10:09:39 I cleaned out icu and icu-native to see if that helps Aug 31 10:10:43 icu? what's that? Aug 31 10:12:20 That was the library that webkit-gtk complained had the wrong c++ abi Aug 31 10:15:08 CM: was it recompiled after the recent gcc changes? perhaps the previous gcc had an older ABI... Aug 31 10:15:26 cesarb: Yes, that was what I'm thinking. :) Aug 31 10:15:57 recompiling icu doesn't help? Aug 31 10:16:34 No, now icu breaks too: http://rafb.net/p/Uw0oFU11.html Aug 31 10:16:35 CM: I tried purging the whole build, but now I got "internal consistency failure" on gtk+ Aug 31 10:16:42 openmoko: 03chris * r2868 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Aug 31 10:16:42 openmoko: MokoFingerScroll: Add moko_finger_scroll_add_with_viewport Aug 31 10:16:42 openmoko: MokoSearchBar: Don't abstract things unnecessarily Aug 31 10:17:03 CM: since gcc was changed (again) today, I'm nuking (again) the whole build to see what happens this time Aug 31 10:17:37 cesarb: I'm afraid I'll have to do that took but it really takes ages to rebuild Aug 31 10:17:47 is it possible that the new gcc breaks everything? Aug 31 10:18:02 ah OK, the solution is to rebuild __all__ Aug 31 10:18:06 (i guess) Aug 31 10:18:10 CM: it only takes about a day for me Aug 31 10:18:22 Hehe.. Same here, but I'm impatient ;) Aug 31 10:18:33 Or lazy if you want to call it that Aug 31 10:21:20 openmoko: 03thomas * r2869 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-contacts.c): Aug 31 10:21:20 openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_get_photo): Check photo before Aug 31 10:21:20 openmoko: g_object_ref. Should prevent segfault on the device when keying in a number Aug 31 10:21:20 openmoko: that belongs to a contact. Aug 31 10:21:21 CM: well, I'm going to work and only getting back tonight... so letting it compiling isn't that boring for me Aug 31 10:21:58 cesarb: I've just compiled a new kernel and had planned to play with my pvr150 card, so I'll rebuild later ;) Aug 31 10:39:28 cesarb, an update removes some old patches... Aug 31 10:39:38 * FuzzyCat is just building now Aug 31 10:40:00 1451 of 4287 :/ Aug 31 10:40:55 de-/co Aug 31 10:41:10 s/$/mpression of sms Aug 31 10:41:21 would be nice Aug 31 10:41:40 and utf8 Aug 31 10:41:55 and food Aug 31 10:42:55 * FuzzyCat just had a 'prior to lunch' sandwich Aug 31 10:46:47 heh Aug 31 10:46:57 I think I'll code through lunch and leave early Aug 31 10:56:10 what is the option to build openmoko to save disk space? Aug 31 10:58:07 Richard: INHERIT += "rm_work" in your build/conf/local.conf Aug 31 11:00:02 openmoko: 03thomas * r2870 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-pim-journal.c): * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_box_new): Fix some compiler warnings Aug 31 11:01:07 ah, build completed, I excluded feedreader. Aug 31 11:01:22 squalyl: Ah, nice. Aug 31 11:01:33 I'd still like to know what's broken with c++ though Aug 31 11:02:30 I cant tell you, I started with monotone N-2, then it failed, then I updated to monotone N-1 which also failed , then updated to current monotone, which worked after feedreader removal Aug 31 11:02:33 not clean! Aug 31 11:02:43 I'm starting a try from scratch! Aug 31 11:03:49 btw i just looked at the promotionnal video on youtube, they are excelent ! :) Aug 31 11:04:21 especially the soundtracks chosen with care and additionnal entertaining effect :) Aug 31 11:04:40 openmoko: 03thomas * r2871 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): * Remove some auto-generated files from SVN Aug 31 11:05:33 openmoko: 03laforge * r2872 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: Fix RTC write operation (Willie Chen) Aug 31 11:25:40 Hi guys. Aug 31 11:25:52 Hello? Aug 31 11:25:53 Lagicity: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) Aug 31 11:26:14 OK, thanks. Aug 31 11:26:40 Is everyone dead? Aug 31 11:26:58 No, but most of us are quite patient ;) Aug 31 11:27:08 :D Aug 31 11:27:11 ... I see ... Aug 31 11:27:25 Who is a Manchester United supporter? Aug 31 11:27:51 * CM is more of an OpenMoko supporter Aug 31 11:28:26 Anyone??? Aug 31 11:28:47 -.- Aug 31 11:28:55 scouser united? Aug 31 11:29:23 wtf is manchester united? Aug 31 11:29:34 * zash_se thinks there is more apropriate channels for that question than this one Aug 31 11:29:44 folken: Off topic is what it is ;) Aug 31 11:29:55 CM: ah.. good not important then. :) Aug 31 11:30:00 The best football club in the world :D Aug 31 11:31:12 make build-package-manchester-united : ERROR: No providers of build target manchester-united (for []) Aug 31 11:31:35 mdt: haha Aug 31 11:31:47 Lagicity: i kind of fail to grasp the concept of football. 26 idiots chasing a ball. thousands watching.. They simply could all be nice to each other. :) Aug 31 11:31:47 Lagicity: stop flaming, the best is Banik Ostrava of course! :D Aug 31 11:32:02 zash_se, sry for the old make love-joke Aug 31 11:32:18 ... What am I doing wrong -.-"? Aug 31 11:33:29 folken: i think, it's better then killing each other in iraq... Aug 31 11:33:36 sports in a channel full of developers Aug 31 11:33:45 Lagicity: my guess is somewhere after /join Aug 31 11:34:17 legion_: yea, good point :p Aug 31 11:35:00 ynezz: they could write free software instead. :) Aug 31 11:40:10 free software don't pay the bills Aug 31 11:40:15 at least, not for the majority :) Aug 31 11:51:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Installation_guide]] [[Main_Page]] [[Flashing_in_windows]] [[User:MarcinHrwJuszkiewicz]] [[User:ThomasWood]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Cleveland]] Aug 31 11:52:06 su Aug 31 11:52:09 p Aug 31 11:57:24 sudo -s ;) Aug 31 12:54:55 czesc (hi) Aug 31 12:56:57 witaj :p Aug 31 13:00:59 * arw hello people Aug 31 13:04:39 It is possible to build your own java? Aug 31 13:06:39 yoyo: only if you want to resign yourself to the firey pits of doom for eternity! :) Aug 31 13:07:41 raster: Hehe ;) Aug 31 13:07:53 raster: I really like to have a java on my moko :) Aug 31 13:08:11 yoyo: There are people working on it, but I don't know how far along they are. Aug 31 13:08:17 yoyo: https://www.fsfe.org/de/fellows/robertschuster/weblog/(tag)/openmoko Aug 31 13:08:49 yoyo: i was joking :) Aug 31 13:08:50 I read (in pass) about it Aug 31 13:08:57 i think its a good idea to have java available for OM Aug 31 13:09:14 yoyo: what mickeyl said, and chat to rschuster, woglinde and guillaum1 on here Aug 31 13:09:15 the real problem is - will it be fast enough to be usable Aug 31 13:09:18 yoyo: (when they're online) Aug 31 13:09:23 and not eat up every ioita of resource there is Aug 31 13:09:26 ... Aug 31 13:09:31 as java tends to do Aug 31 13:09:37 * Stephmw pokes raster Aug 31 13:09:42 (well java apps udner a jvm that i normally see...) Aug 31 13:09:47 raster: j2me should be no problem Aug 31 13:09:51 * raster wobbles at Stephmw Aug 31 13:10:00 DPThought: maybe Aug 31 13:10:01 raster: get with the programme! :) Aug 31 13:10:06 i just got burnt by java before Aug 31 13:10:24 raster: I have worked on a j2me implementation before, speed of the java wasn't the problem Aug 31 13:10:30 and every time i see anything to do with java - i see 3.9gb memory footprints and 8 cpus going full ball Aug 31 13:10:33 raster: the biggest bottleneck was the display bus Aug 31 13:10:33 I think on moko shood by me and se Aug 31 13:11:31 yoyo: ME will come via the MIDPath project, SE is kind of there, just not integrated into the OM experience Aug 31 13:12:35 can't wait Aug 31 13:12:35 Stephmw: depends what u do generally Aug 31 13:12:51 but i do think we need a good jvm + at least j2me Aug 31 13:12:58 maybe even j2ee if u have enough flash Aug 31 13:13:00 and are crazy Aug 31 13:13:32 raster: we're talking about a phone, so the performance nenchmark will be demanding games Aug 31 13:13:42 raster: rather than the sieve benchmark :) Aug 31 13:16:04 Stephmw: well... maybe Aug 31 13:16:08 raster: anyway, as I was saying, I've already worked on a commercial j2me implementation, so I know the bottlenecks Aug 31 13:16:13 but if i were doing demanding games Aug 31 13:16:16 i'd do them native Aug 31 13:16:26 you're forgetting something Aug 31 13:16:48 the majority of existing games that OM can readily use are written for j2me Aug 31 13:17:09 and there are LOADS of those around Aug 31 13:19:29 What I see I can't believe. there is a snap for gta02v2 :) Aug 31 13:20:42 I think j2me is kind of fun, but I have yet to finish any of my started games for it.. :P Aug 31 13:21:40 CM: I've just emailed the guys behind the Scrabulous web stuff; they're keen to have a j2me interface to it :) Aug 31 13:22:01 CM: so I'll be starting on that in a while, not sure if I'll have time before my holiday though Aug 31 13:22:24 Stephmw: Heh, cool! Me and a friend are working on a bluetooth multiplayer "Boggle" game atm Aug 31 13:22:48 CM: nice :) Aug 31 13:23:12 That's way simpler though, and doesn't require much of a screen Aug 31 13:23:27 mine will probably be the online variety though - easier to integrate Aug 31 13:24:32 Stephmw: I've only done some attempts at roguelikes before, but it's not so easy when you're new to j2me. Aug 31 13:24:51 And bluetooth multiplayer would be fun :) Aug 31 13:26:11 hm, bluetooth hide & seek! Aug 31 13:26:17 Stephmw: Btw, biggest Scrabble site I know: http://www.betapet.com/ Aug 31 13:27:47 CM: yeah, I'd come across it - I like scrabulous because of the play-by-email feature Aug 31 13:28:11 Stephmw: I noticed that.. Man, PBM is old! ;) Aug 31 13:28:19 And slow.. Aug 31 13:28:39 * CM remembers Firetop Mountain and Bloodpit Aug 31 13:52:20 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[User:ThomasWood]] [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[My_Account]] [[Category_talk:Server]] [[Category:Server]] [[Server:Tracker]] [[Server:A-GPS]] [[Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu]] Aug 31 13:54:59 I can honestly say, that I wish there was a bit more activity on planet.openmoko.org Aug 31 13:55:01 :\ Aug 31 14:10:40 pinacs witch chili Aug 31 14:11:24 running out of disk space on build system is not fun Aug 31 14:12:14 Writchi1: the fun begins when you move your moko dir on another disk. And then realise that your path is broken everywhere... :) Aug 31 14:12:53 * zash_se 's booting openmoko in qemu Aug 31 14:13:00 omfg, coolness Aug 31 14:13:00 i am begining to like mokomakefile Aug 31 14:13:14 is webkit broken atm? Aug 31 14:13:35 it doesnt build here Aug 31 14:14:21 borg_: http://build.webkit.org/ shows that it should build Aug 31 14:15:28 moo Aug 31 14:15:31 borg_: http://build.webkit.org/changes/2750 broke the Qt and Gtk+ build though but that was fixed yesterday Aug 31 14:15:45 i need a bigger disk :/ Aug 31 14:15:52 12bg isn't enough to build Aug 31 14:16:03 bigger Gytes Aug 31 14:16:06 NOTE: package libgsmd-0.1+svn20070831-r22: task do_install: started Aug 31 14:16:07 ERROR: function do_install failed Aug 31 14:19:18 okay, now what? Aug 31 14:20:54 it did something wierd Aug 31 14:21:18 * Aug 31 14:21:38 http://pic.zash.se/Screenshot-QEMU.png Aug 31 14:22:20 x died Aug 31 14:22:27 ssh to it, restart. Aug 31 14:22:38 ah Aug 31 14:23:08 i ^C:ed it Aug 31 14:25:20 how can I remove webkit from openmoko-develop-image? Aug 31 14:26:11 remove feedreader Aug 31 14:26:18 from the image Aug 31 14:26:19 how? Aug 31 14:26:46 1 sec Aug 31 14:28:24 torpor: is networking set up in the makefile or do i need to enable that? Aug 31 14:29:16 for qemu? Aug 31 14:29:22 beats me i don't use qemu Aug 31 14:29:34 * zash_se did the qemu in ubunt-thingy Aug 31 14:29:53 yoyo : try renaming openembedded/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-feedreader2_svn.bb Aug 31 14:30:58 ScaredyCat: ok Aug 31 14:31:53 iicha :) Aug 31 14:32:39 eh? Aug 31 14:33:29 I delete all text in openmoko-feedreader2_svn.bb :). I don't need it. Aug 31 14:33:38 actuall Aug 31 14:33:42 actually Aug 31 14:34:00 ... just comment oout the feed reader line in ./tasks/task-openmoko.bb: Aug 31 14:34:28 alsow good idea Aug 31 14:35:12 siii weekend ! :) Aug 31 14:35:12 must reboot... Aug 31 14:35:14 must reboot... Aug 31 14:35:28 ScaredyCat: windows user? Aug 31 14:35:32 damnit who broke gprsd? Aug 31 14:36:53 Is there any info about successfully send / receive mms? Aug 31 14:37:07 hm, i filled up my rootfs, now i cant delete the big files anymore - the rm gets stuck. is that a known problem? Aug 31 14:40:17 mdt: jffs2? Aug 31 14:40:23 yes, shure Aug 31 14:40:30 mdt: then its a feature :-) Aug 31 14:40:42 XorA, what can i do? Aug 31 14:40:49 mdt: reflash Aug 31 14:40:54 oups Aug 31 14:41:12 will this be fixed some day? Aug 31 14:42:58 mdt: ask jffs2 dudes Aug 31 14:43:14 XorA, is there a known borderline? Aug 31 14:43:45 mdt: it occurs when there isnt enough space for the journal and jffs2 then desperately searches for stuff to garbage collect AFAIk Aug 31 14:43:59 mdt:you need at least one empty flash block. Aug 31 14:44:36 so in fact i cant delete anything? Aug 31 14:45:09 if it is currently full, that is correct - it's too full to delete anything. You have to reflash. Aug 31 14:45:37 hm, it 97% full.... strange Aug 31 14:46:41 The question about that is if the 3% is scattered about, or if there is actually a full flash block that is free... Aug 31 14:47:57 I have a braking copulation with the internet f***** router Aug 31 14:48:27 mwester, understand... thnx Aug 31 14:49:41 zash_se: where can I find http://pic.zash.se/Screenshot.png ? Aug 31 14:50:47 what? Aug 31 14:51:14 zash_se: I realy like it Aug 31 14:51:32 :( my english Aug 31 14:51:42 the background or? Aug 31 14:52:04 the wallpaper from that screen shot Aug 31 14:52:33 zash_se: It is out standing Aug 31 14:52:57 yoyo: http://pixel.customize.org/ Aug 31 14:54:31 openmoko: 03mickey * r2873 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-firststart2/data/ui.glade: openmoko-firststart: don't allow focus on certain widgets to prevent keyboard popping up Aug 31 15:01:39 hi Aug 31 15:01:45 hi ppl Aug 31 15:02:02 ppl? Aug 31 15:02:08 peooople Aug 31 15:02:27 hehe ;) Aug 31 15:07:40 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order. Aug 31 15:08:19 lol what's that order canceling thing? forum feed? Aug 31 15:09:05 mailing list Aug 31 15:09:19 whenever someone @openmoko.com posts Aug 31 15:20:48 i just installed the last rootfs :D it seems there is something missing, fonts are blocks, colors are missing :) Aug 31 15:27:40 ah, sry, forgot nand erase.... Aug 31 15:28:47 ride Aug 31 15:39:11 did that work yoyo Aug 31 15:39:14 ? Aug 31 15:41:37 that's a nice wallpaper!! Aug 31 15:41:44 http://pic.zash.se/Screenshot.png Aug 31 15:52:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] Aug 31 16:11:04 can someone from openmoko.com/FIC confirm whether GSM850 has been disabled or is broken in GTA01BV4 ????? Aug 31 16:23:04 python performance on the Neo1973 is good? Aug 31 16:26:20 (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order. Aug 31 16:31:20 * psymin hopes phase2 is still on track for October. Aug 31 16:41:24 openmoko: 03laforge * r2874 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410_udc.patch: add some additional debugging code Aug 31 16:42:56 openmoko: 03laforge * r2875 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series usbtty-irq-racecondition-fix.patch): Fix usbtty bogus character race conditions (Closes: #170, #779) Aug 31 16:44:08 I'm a bit confused from reading the mailing list..is the mass market release of GTA02 still scheduled for October or will that be the GTA02_v1 (developers release) ? Aug 31 16:44:59 BBFILE_PRIORITY: whats the hightes priority: highest or lowest number? Aug 31 16:53:29 openmoko: 03laforge * r2876 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: Aug 31 16:53:29 openmoko: * enable 'license' command in GTA02 config Aug 31 16:53:29 openmoko: * use correct serial uart for console on GTA02 in default environment Aug 31 17:06:22 xaid|work, afaik october is the mom and pop and your dog release .. I'm wondering if its still on schedule so I can get my hopes up :) Aug 31 17:15:20 mbuf: how much space does python add ? Aug 31 17:16:14 Writchie, i have no idea, that is why i am asking :) Aug 31 17:17:02 sorry - missed your question mark Aug 31 17:18:14 Writchie, i will probably stick with C Aug 31 17:19:36 Hi all Aug 31 17:19:43 is harald there ? Aug 31 17:20:05 <_diego__> Writchie:only python about 2 Mb Aug 31 17:20:34 that shouldn't be too bad Aug 31 17:20:51 <_diego__> but probably u want to install some module and can grow up fast Aug 31 17:21:04 64MB is going fast on GT01 - 256MB on GT02 will be much nicer Aug 31 17:22:00 _diego__: would be nice to have a base system - the rest could prolly be on SD Aug 31 17:22:18 looks like SD is going to be necessary for GT01 Aug 31 17:22:46 <_diego__> indeed.... i've installed python on SD :) Aug 31 17:24:10 it might even make sense to run rootfs off SD on GT01 so that storage size is equivalent to GT02 Aug 31 17:29:10 does anybody knows when gps will be avail for GTA01 + Aug 31 17:29:13 python-pygtk needs lots of space Aug 31 17:30:05 whats a good imageviewer app on linux (ubuntu) .. Aug 31 17:30:05 daltona, he is there, but not here (just kidding) Aug 31 17:30:05 ? Aug 31 17:30:15 anyone got some rec's? Aug 31 17:30:27 mbuf lol Aug 31 17:32:03 the worst thing is that I have access to global locate lib binary, but it's only for ARMv5 and GTA01 is ARMv4 ! Aug 31 17:34:41 torpor, a bit OT but eog, kview, pornview .. etc Aug 31 17:41:07 is there a window size (horizontal/vertical) for the OpenMoko touchscreen display? Aug 31 17:41:25 I have a dev unit here that seems to be dead. It was working fine, but I left it sitting unplugged for a few days. Now I can't get it to come to life. It's been plugged into USB for about 4 hours (following instructions on wiki). Aug 31 17:41:40 suggestions? Aug 31 17:41:46 got a voltmeter? Aug 31 17:41:49 psymin: thx i'll check it out.. Aug 31 17:42:03 SpeedEvil: yes Aug 31 17:42:18 Measuring the battery voltage is probably a good first step. Aug 31 17:44:09 psymin: I hope its still on schedule, I'm counting the days to ditch my existing 3 year old phone :) Aug 31 17:46:20 SpeedEvil: right, 3.68 volts Aug 31 17:46:24 measured Aug 31 17:46:35 That should boot. Aug 31 17:46:47 Try taking the battery out 10 mins. Aug 31 17:48:47 SpeedEvil: weird, booting now. thx Aug 31 17:53:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/fr]] [[Category_talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[User:Javiroman]] [[Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu]] Aug 31 17:53:05 tnb: can you see what voltage is reported after you boot up Aug 31 18:04:20 * Kero loves those wiki's that run out of data. OE says "current monotone in debian is 0.33", whereas it is 0.36 (up from 0.35 three weeks ago) Aug 31 18:05:23 * Kero fears that's not going to improve on trying to upgrade that monotone archive that'll be downloaded by mokomakefile Aug 31 18:09:00 Kero i use 0.31 which interresting enough works Aug 31 18:09:13 roh: that's scary. Aug 31 18:09:17 i know. Aug 31 18:09:29 roh: lower versions can read higher-version repos, but not vice versa... Aug 31 18:09:50 and yes, ive successfully built om with it for some month now Aug 31 18:10:22 * Kero just doesn't want to bother compiling monotone by hand Aug 31 18:10:28 if we get into hard problems with older mtn versions i think rod can still add building recent mtn locally to mokomakefile Aug 31 18:10:43 Kero i use the package which is supplied by ubuntu feisty Aug 31 18:11:42 script is downloading the repo. we'll see shortly Aug 31 18:13:22 webkit won't build currently? or does it build ok for others right now? Aug 31 18:13:33 roh: I noticed yesterday that the standby voltage - DCD3? is set to 2100 - whereas it should be 1800 according to the samsung datasheet. Aug 31 18:14:01 mwester: check build.webkit.org, feel free to pastebin build errors Aug 31 18:14:03 seems 0.36 is smarter than 0.35 :D Aug 31 18:14:23 roh: And dtandby current is now at 0 with both amp in 'off' mode, and @poff Aug 31 18:14:53 SpeedEvil cool. Aug 31 18:17:24 Oh - and I've had it playing mp3s at a current which would indicate 8 hours playback. Aug 31 18:17:57 (lowering core voltage to 1.8, clock to 100Mhz, IO volts to 3. Through headphones only of course. Aug 31 18:18:41 well, i was looking for a good portable .ogg player. glad to hear i finally bought one. Aug 31 18:18:47 whee! `make setup` actually worked (it didn't w/ mtn 0.35) Aug 31 18:19:03 Not tried ogg Aug 31 18:19:10 this is 128K mp3 Aug 31 18:19:48 and now I'd like to update that hopelessly outdated OE page, but it does not tell me how to make an account? Aug 31 18:20:22 on the wiki? Aug 31 18:20:57 yeah, OEandYourDistro Aug 31 18:21:04 click edit Aug 31 18:21:21 it should say you can't do that without login, and present a login screen, from where you can create an account Aug 31 18:21:27 hi Aug 31 18:21:46 speedevil: cell broadcast works :) Aug 31 18:21:49 it shows a screen where I can leave an explanation of what i'd *like* to do. Aug 31 18:21:50 :) Aug 31 18:22:02 without any promiss that I can actually do that Aug 31 18:22:04 Kero: do you mean the wiki? Aug 31 18:22:28 http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro and clicked Edit, as you said Aug 31 18:22:31 If so - top-right Aug 31 18:22:39 there should be log-in/create account Aug 31 18:23:08 there's login, but no create account (also not when I click login) Aug 31 18:23:26 I'm sort-of starting to understand why that page is out of date.......... Aug 31 18:23:39 oh - right Aug 31 18:23:48 I was assumign you were meaning the OM wiki Aug 31 18:23:59 no, I have an account there, no problem Aug 31 18:25:21 will poke a bit in #oe to see why their wiki is so crap-or-closed Aug 31 18:34:14 * cworth discovers the device-owners list. Aug 31 18:34:50 Kero: the wiki was recently upgraded, and there remain a number of technical glitches... Aug 31 18:35:56 right :) Aug 31 18:44:20 which g++ version was needed? Aug 31 18:50:27 looks like make mokoslug fails on ubiupdatevol.c.dep Aug 31 18:55:07 Is there a recommended way to get rid of obsolete dirs in the build subtree? In particular things from svn with a datestamp? Sorry if this is obvious. Aug 31 18:55:45 It keeps filling up my disk! Aug 31 18:57:02 hello! When the GTA2 is released in october, will that be the final hardware version then? Aug 31 18:57:05 funky, makeinfo is in texinfo Aug 31 18:57:19 eggsy: under Tips on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Aug 31 18:58:15 edistar_: No. Aug 31 18:58:25 edistar_: further revisions will continue. Aug 31 19:00:51 multiple wgets running at the same time has weeeiiiird graphical results :) Aug 31 19:02:03 Kero: well rm_work helps (don't know what it really does) but if say webkit-gtk build fails then it keeps the partial build files around. The next day it has a new package name and so orphans the previous days build directory and I have to go and delete things by hand. Aug 31 19:03:21 no idea about that one. Currenytly trying to build my first image (and getting much further than previous time I tried :) Aug 31 19:04:24 Kero: it's all a bit too flaky for my liking. Aug 31 19:04:42 yet its working, isnt it ? Aug 31 19:06:16 eggsy: blog entry about my previous attempt: http://chmeee.dyndns.org/rambling/blog.srb?author=Kero Aug 31 19:06:25 Kryoko: I only manage to successfully every couple of days Aug 31 19:07:20 eggsy : huuu...that's indeed ... well bad Aug 31 19:08:20 Kryoko: rwhitby keeps improving MokoMakefile which does help though Aug 31 19:08:48 and it does save wearing out my flash memory! Aug 31 19:09:37 hopefully there won't be that much problems with the gta02...i aint got problems fixing whatsoever related problems yet i aint got time for such stuff >_> Aug 31 19:10:04 well, my dual-core is, for once, doing some heavy-duty stuff :) Aug 31 19:10:28 approaching package 200 of 3352 Aug 31 19:10:40 task Aug 31 19:13:39 <_diego__> does exist a build of openmoko with debug information? Aug 31 19:17:10 is somebody able to build imlib2? I always get this errors: http://rafb.net/p/dSyaWm54.html Aug 31 19:24:09 thomasg interresting problem.. shure it built a libc before sometime? Aug 31 19:25:00 roh, I have a new built glibc, yes Aug 31 19:25:54 hm.. and why does it not use its headers? Aug 31 19:26:28 good question :) Aug 31 19:26:36 NOTE: package glibc-2.5: completed Aug 31 19:27:11 roh, I have to go now, will be back in about 3 hours. I'll come back on you, k? Aug 31 19:27:24 im currently making a build Aug 31 19:28:11 just query me if you have informations for me. cu later Aug 31 19:48:50 I saw this mentioned on the wiki wish list, is anyone working on end-to-end voice encryption? Aug 31 19:51:16 psymin will happen.. but propably after gta02 is released Aug 31 19:51:45 * psymin smiles. Aug 31 19:51:46 roh hm cryptophone guys have no intrest? Aug 31 19:52:20 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bucharest]] [[Summer_of_code/fr]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Edinburgh]] Aug 31 19:52:44 hi all Aug 31 20:01:58 Ghiottone: hi Aug 31 20:02:03 1000 tasks of 3352... (nice progress :) ) Aug 31 20:04:49 does anyone know how I put an application in moko's application list? Aug 31 20:06:43 woglinde totally different direction and userbase.. lets see what happens. even then. that not opensource Aug 31 20:12:53 oh I found the answer by myself :) Aug 31 20:30:45 why does the openmoko build system build qt4-x11-free? Aug 31 20:31:07 cbrake bitbake bla -g Aug 31 20:31:12 shows you the graph Aug 31 20:31:18 of dependecies Aug 31 20:32:21 cbrake: because of inherit qt4x11 in webkit-gdk Aug 31 20:32:58 cbrake: and qt4x11.bbclass adds qt4-x11-free to DEPENDS. It is on my todo to change that... Aug 31 20:34:08 zecke_: ahh, ok. Aug 31 20:36:30 so, if I get rid of webkit, then my build would be done already? Cool. That's easy! Aug 31 20:40:04 mm, building a complete set of locales (glibc 2.5) seems a bit overkill, too :) Aug 31 20:40:52 I think the current openmoko build needs to lose some weight -- a rigorous workout schedule, and a diet would be good. Aug 31 20:40:56 kristian-m, are you here? Aug 31 20:42:18 mwester: I guess sucking a bit of fat from the makefiles should be easy enough. Aug 31 20:42:31 how does octobre for gta02 look? Aug 31 20:42:33 I just have to wonder this: Why, at this point in development, are we making a web browser (webkit) part of the image? Should it not be built as an add-on package, so that the image can be built and rebuilt more efficiently? Aug 31 20:42:38 mwester: but it'd be different fat for everyone Aug 31 20:42:44 maybe Aug 31 20:42:45 No, not really. Aug 31 20:43:02 We can decide on what's core, and what's installed via ipkg. Aug 31 20:43:04 right now I do not care about a webbrowser, true Aug 31 20:44:07 mwester: You are always free to create a better-openmoko-image.bb and propose the inclusion Aug 31 20:44:23 * Kero does not care about a huge build, as long as it's a one-time. Aug 31 20:44:41 hm... built ran throgh Aug 31 20:44:46 zecke_: I know that, but I don't know who is in charge, if anyone, of deciding such a thing. Aug 31 20:45:32 mwester: rwhitby is Aug 31 20:45:33 So, to whom would one propose that? The community? FIC? The core developers (and are they here? do they use OE - I though they used SVN)? Aug 31 20:45:37 mwester: bugzilla.openmoko.org is always a good place and if that is unanswered mail -community? Aug 31 20:46:28 oh, NOTE: generating locale nl_NL (ISO-8859-1) Aug 31 20:46:41 we can't even get the gsm modem to work reliably. why do we need the web browser?! Aug 31 20:47:12 but it doesn't do iso-8859-15? no euro symbol? bastards :) Aug 31 20:47:15 It's something that should be pursued, I think. Building too much is going to discourage developers, and frustrate the OE folks who are trying to keep it all working, and can't be productive. Aug 31 20:47:34 I'll try to strip out some stuff, and see if I can come up with a proposal to pose to someone. Aug 31 20:49:28 that'd be nice! Aug 31 20:50:24 mwester: isn't mickey working on webkit? Aug 31 20:51:17 ferric no zecke Aug 31 20:52:04 woglinde: I will buy mate if you are quite... Aug 31 20:52:24 ah Aug 31 20:52:38 zecke aeh Aug 31 20:52:52 ferric nono mickeyl is working on webkit Aug 31 20:52:53 sorry Aug 31 20:52:55 *g* Aug 31 20:53:03 heh! Aug 31 20:57:24 just wondering.. any news on openmoko and qemu.. last time i build it.. mouse clicks didn't work in qemu Aug 31 20:58:52 hp__: I think that is still the case. I built it yesterday. Aug 31 21:00:26 kay.. thanks for the reply Aug 31 21:03:44 hp__, I just built it this afternoon and had similar issues, assumed it was my own fault though. Aug 31 21:04:07 hp__, Seems like the axis was rotated 90 degrees or something? Aug 31 21:06:31 hp__, also my right click is the 'action' click .. I guess I'd better bone up on qemu :) Aug 31 21:06:37 * Kero wonders why his untouched neo spontaneously rebooted (while it was charging earlier) Aug 31 21:10:21 psymin: i build it urlier this week.. no matter where i clicked nother really happend.. Aug 31 21:10:30 psymin: keyboard access worked a little though Aug 31 21:11:04 openmoko: 03mickey * r2877 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/ (26 files in 4 dirs): add openmoko-terminal, a gtk-based terminal wrapper around VteTerminal Aug 31 21:13:14 hp__: xaid|work : this worked for be with the pre-built version: http://onlinedev.blogspot.com/2007/08/calibrating-openmoko-v20072.html Aug 31 21:14:45 I found the like from this bug: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=736 Aug 31 21:17:38 (NOTE: generating locale nl_NL@euro (ISO-8859-15), and there it is :) Aug 31 21:17:59 morning Aug 31 21:18:02 zmedico: trying that right away :) Aug 31 21:19:02 hi rob :) Aug 31 21:20:23 hey rod Aug 31 21:20:52 there's really a loooooooot of locales in mokomakefile... bit of a waste as I'll be using... three or four at most... Aug 31 21:23:30 Kero: GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8" Aug 31 21:24:08 Kero: In local.conf Aug 31 21:24:50 zmedico: thanks for the link. I followed that yesterday but it seems that my mouse clicks are not registering correctly. I have to click them 10 times or so until a click is registered. moving the keyboard arrows is instant though so i'm not sure if I missed anything. Aug 31 21:25:01 CM: trying. Aug 31 21:25:33 CM: how to do more than one? space sep? comma sep? Aug 31 21:25:49 space Aug 31 21:25:55 woglinde: Danke Aug 31 21:26:07 * CM is too slow after a tough week Aug 31 21:26:12 xaid|work: I had to click about 2 times (maybe three) for each of the cross hairs during callibration Aug 31 21:26:23 in oe all is space with one exception URI_SRC Aug 31 21:27:00 'k, trying again, if it works, I'll add the tip to the wiki Aug 31 21:27:09 mickey: out of curiosity, what's the advantage of openmoko-terminal2 over mrxvt? Aug 31 21:27:30 zmedico: does it work fine afterwards or do you still need to do multiple clicks? Aug 31 21:27:43 it worked fine after calibration Aug 31 21:28:19 kero hm I think I is already in the wiki Aug 31 21:28:58 zmedico: hmm, its left-click during calibration and afterwards too, right? or do i need to do a magical key dance combo? Aug 31 21:29:28 just left clicks worked for me Aug 31 21:32:12 zmedico: thanks for the tip, i'll try it when im home :) Aug 31 21:32:25 good luck :) Aug 31 21:35:23 woglinde: perhaps, but I think it'd fit under Tips in http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?MokoMakefile Aug 31 21:36:16 xaid|work: hold down the mouse button for clicking (i.e. make it a really *slow* click) and you'll get better response from qemu) Aug 31 21:36:21 that's http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Aug 31 21:36:35 Kero: please add it there then Aug 31 21:36:51 done Aug 31 21:37:58 thx Aug 31 21:39:44 rwhitby: thanks for the tip. i'll do it in a couple of hours. qemu is not fun to work with sometimes :) Aug 31 21:40:00 rwhitby: I posted to device-owners about monotone 0.35 vs 0.36 on debian unstable. I'm assuming mokomakefile still converts (up) from 0.32 to whatever version is running? Aug 31 21:41:07 Kero: I added ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" too Aug 31 21:41:18 Sometimes the wiki is just impossible to search Aug 31 21:41:39 I wonder what's up with that in MediaWiki Aug 31 21:41:58 re Aug 31 21:42:38 there we go, glibc done. 1500 tasks and counting Aug 31 21:42:59 The right way is to reorganise the wiki so that it is easy to find stuff without searching. Aug 31 21:43:08 * SpeedEvil falls off sofa laughing insanely. Aug 31 21:43:41 SpeedEvil: Hehe.. I hereby betstow that quest upon yea! :-P Aug 31 21:44:01 The internets are messy. Organize them plz. Aug 31 21:45:47 Kero: mokomakefile downloads the snapshot which matches your mtn version Aug 31 21:45:48 CM: So one needs to do the ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" as well as the GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8" to just build a single locale? Aug 31 21:46:14 * mwester can test this, but if someone already knows, it'll save much CPU cycles... Aug 31 21:46:31 Kero: from http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ Aug 31 21:47:13 if the matching version is not there, then it downloads the latest and tries to get mtn to db migrate it Aug 31 21:47:25 mwester: if you disable binary locale generation you'll get none. Aug 31 21:47:34 if that doesn't work, then you're on your own with the monotone documentation to help you Aug 31 21:47:41 rwhitby: ok, when I tried three weeks ago, it died while converting. I had nothing then. Aug 31 21:47:47 s/none/none whatsoever/ Aug 31 21:47:47 quicksand meant: mwester: if you disable binary locale generation you'll get none whatsoever. Aug 31 21:47:57 thanks Aug 31 21:47:59 so converting from 0.35 to 0.36 seemsto work Aug 31 21:48:07 whereas 0.32 -> 0.35 does not Aug 31 21:48:41 SpeedEvil: I agree, for a new starter, the wiki is hard to parse Aug 31 21:49:01 * SpeedEvil has viewed every damn page, and it's not entirely trivial. Aug 31 21:49:05 SpeedEvil: it would probably be a weekend of hard work to clean it up Aug 31 21:49:16 It's more than that. Aug 31 21:49:26 Many pages basically need rewritten. Aug 31 21:49:39 And often there is the 'I can't find a page, so I'll make one' effect. Aug 31 21:49:43 after deciding/agreeing a concept maybe Aug 31 21:49:50 So you get three or four pages on the same subject Aug 31 21:50:03 yes, we have quite some stuff double Aug 31 21:50:05 And then there is namespace confusion. Aug 31 21:50:07 SpeedEvil: agree -- plus there's old/bad information aplenty Aug 31 21:50:13 namespace? Aug 31 21:51:08 Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_case_designs:Ruggedised Aug 31 21:51:17 versus Ruggedised_Case Aug 31 21:51:23 (for example) Aug 31 21:51:24 well, in any case, I could spend some time on cleanup in a week or two Aug 31 21:51:33 I'm not advocating that scheme. Aug 31 21:51:35 SpeedEvil: ah, ok. agreed. Aug 31 21:51:51 Getting that right isn't entirely simple. Aug 31 21:52:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[E17]] Aug 31 21:52:07 Hardware:Neo1973:GTA02:Alternate_case_designs:Ruggedised Aug 31 21:52:11 rather :) Aug 31 21:52:14 can someone offer some advice? http://pastebin.org/1524 Aug 31 21:52:55 DukeOfURL: Sure. Buy low, sell high. Aug 31 21:53:08 SpeedEvil: probably a good start would by my just identifying double pages, putting a note in in front Aug 31 21:53:18 Yeah. Aug 31 21:53:34 SpeedEvil: then the next step would be to just merge them Aug 31 21:53:35 That's the same problem I had early this morning. No solution did I find... so I ended up deleting the *entire* tmp build directory, and building from scratch. Aug 31 21:53:38 That can involve 'first read every page in the wiki' problems though. Aug 31 21:53:48 Which gets annoying fast. Aug 31 21:54:15 DukeOfURL: did you sync up and build anything 12 - 18 hours ago? Aug 31 21:54:20 SpeedEvil: I don't think that it is much easier than that, honestly. I know only one way to good data quality and that is hard work :-) Aug 31 21:54:48 mwester: yes, yesterday. no joy however Aug 31 21:54:58 hhf423: rigourously categorising helps. As that way the problem reduces to finding dupes amongst categoriesed pages. Aug 31 21:56:42 DukeOfURL: Yep, that's what I did as well. There was a commit that broke things, followed by a fix, but anything that was compiled in that interval is suspect. So any objects or libraries you built with the bad toolchain need to be deleted. Aug 31 21:56:55 rwhitby: this is now a broken link: http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-0.36.mtn.bz2 Aug 31 21:57:00 DukeOfURL: I couldn't find them all, so I ended up deleting everything, and building from scratch. Aug 31 21:57:34 mwester: I'm trying that as well, but make setup hands on http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-0.36.mtn.bz2 Aug 31 21:57:40 hangs Aug 31 21:58:25 Oh - I saved my OE.mtn, and just blew away the build/tmp directory. Aug 31 21:58:33 if I want to make uboot stay in the uboot menu forever, how do I do that again? Aug 31 21:58:57 SpeedEvil: yes. starting with categorization as a note on the page? Aug 31 21:59:02 hhf423: You mean, without pressing AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX AUX ? Aug 31 21:59:08 quicksand: yes Aug 31 21:59:14 why does it build qt4 when i build webkit...? Aug 31 21:59:19 mwester: did you get a successful compile? Aug 31 21:59:22 there's some timeout setting Aug 31 21:59:24 but i can't remember Aug 31 21:59:26 it was on the list lately Aug 31 21:59:43 DukeOfURL: YES! It just finished, as a matter of fact. Aug 31 21:59:46 I can't either. The default is a bit short, but I have just dealt with it. Aug 31 22:00:18 mdt: recent change, someone's working on it. Aug 31 22:00:37 boot_menu_timeout ? Aug 31 22:00:47 mwester, i'm afraid of qt, you know... Aug 31 22:01:17 mdt: I'm not frightened of it -- but my CPU fan needs a rest. Aug 31 22:01:32 hhf423: ah, yes: setenv boot_menu_timeout=[seconds?] per the wiki Aug 31 22:01:35 mwester, same to mine... terrible :D Aug 31 22:01:45 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Environment Aug 31 22:01:47 quicksand: -1 probably? Aug 31 22:02:14 or maybe [large integer] if that's forever enough for you Aug 31 22:02:48 openmoko: 03mickey * r2878 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/src/moko-terminal.c: openmoko-terminal2: bind backspace Aug 31 22:03:26 ok, -1 does not cut it Aug 31 22:03:33 mickey|mdd: What advatage does moko-terminal have over mrxvt? Just curious. Aug 31 22:04:18 * Kero notices more stuff with locales... being packaged, not compiled. is that what the ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" would prevent? Aug 31 22:04:55 quicksand: it will have the automatic opening of softkeyboard, will fit into the visual design, and will have some features like bookmarks for well-known-commands that are especially helpful when you don't want to type much :) Aug 31 22:05:20 Kero: Yeah, I think so, during glibc build, right? Aug 31 22:05:30 DukeOfURL: I know there is no 0.36 snapshot. that's why mokomakefile grabs the latest if a versioned snapshot does not exist Aug 31 22:05:42 it's not a broken link - it was never there. Aug 31 22:06:13 rwhitby: what can I do to run setup? Aug 31 22:06:17 mickey|mdd: cool -- that would be nice. Though frankly, with the few GPE applications I have installed, the automatic soft keyboard is annoying more than a help. Aug 31 22:06:49 quicksand: ya, we have to see how this works out. if too many people find it annyoing, we might as well rip it out again Aug 31 22:06:55 Maybe you have this in mind already, but because a stack of two virtual keyboards isn't all that helpful, it should check whether one is visible already before it opens another! Aug 31 22:07:25 DukeOfURL: are you telling me that your wget program hangs if a URL can't be found? Aug 31 22:07:45 no, this is make setup: Aug 31 22:08:05 --15:52:44-- (try: 7) http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-0.36.mtn.bz2 Aug 31 22:08:07 Connecting to www.openembedded.org|85.214.40.226|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Aug 31 22:08:08 Retrying. Aug 31 22:08:37 right, and when it finally fails to get the versioned snapshot it will retrieve the unversioned one and upgrade it if necessary Aug 31 22:09:37 DukeOfURL: I don't control what's in http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ Aug 31 22:09:57 quicksand: no, later packages. it's past glibc already. Aug 31 22:10:18 does someone know of a bug in libpng-1.2.19? it decodes a gray png in blue... Aug 31 22:10:44 how can i force a build of a older version with bitbake? Aug 31 22:11:09 bitbake foo-bar Aug 31 22:11:13 bar being the version Aug 31 22:11:18 DukeOfURL: my mokomakefile downloaded some version and 0.36 converted succesfully. today. Aug 31 22:11:59 so I'm supposing that's v0.35 downloaded... (how to check hours after the fact?) Aug 31 22:11:59 i read about this png bug Aug 31 22:12:18 rwhitby is there a special reason that you fetch bb 1.8.8 and not trunk anymore` Aug 31 22:12:43 stability? Aug 31 22:12:58 see: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=46CB80CA.9050607%40users.sourceforge.net&forum_name=enlightenment-devel Aug 31 22:13:00 roh: indeed - I was berated heavily on #oe for daring to take a stable branch tip :-) Aug 31 22:13:03 hm. never hit a bug... there Aug 31 22:13:09 mickey|mdd, thnx Aug 31 22:13:37 mdt: iirc there also was a patch. try grepping through the enlightenment-devel archives, iirc that was where i read about it Aug 31 22:14:08 roh: apparently the only guaranteed stable things in bitbake are the tags - you can't assume the stable branch tip is actually stable. Aug 31 22:14:51 (and that's a reasonable position to take, so I implemented it) Aug 31 22:15:29 I also did the same for nslu2-linux Aug 31 22:16:56 i see Aug 31 22:18:07 rwhitby: 1.8.8 is new enough to incorporate the circular-dependencies fix? If so, I'll replace my trunk-snapshot with that. Aug 31 22:26:47 2000 of 3352 and counting :) bedtime, will see the result tomorrow morning. Aug 31 22:27:36 * quicksand hopes that Kero doesn't come back in the morning to find it broke 15 minutes after he left . . . Aug 31 22:31:37 mickey|mdd: For the builder that feeds http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/fic-gta01/, how come gsmd comes up as +svnr2748, instead of a date based revision - do you have some sort of local.conf with frozen svn revisions in it? are you using bitbake 1.8.8 to build it? what differences are there between how that feed is built and how everyone else is building repeatably with MokoMakefile? Aug 31 22:32:13 rwhitby: this is one of the few uncommitted changes i have on buildhost Aug 31 22:32:26 (cause svnr2748 is later than any date-based svn revision, so nobody else can build a local feed which updates gsmd from a local build Aug 31 22:32:49 in a couple of days we have SRCREV globally and then we can commit that Aug 31 22:33:45 openmoko: 03mickey * r2879 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/src/moko-terminal.c: openmoko-terminal2: set default font to Vera Sans Mono 5 Aug 31 22:37:30 mickey|mdd: ok, I'll ignore the problem until then Aug 31 22:38:12 At least I know I'm not going crazy now - I couldn't work out what mokomakefile was doing wrong to not get the same results as buildhost Aug 31 22:41:21 right. sorry bout that Aug 31 22:42:24 hm, my current image does not contain /etc/alsa anymore... is that a bug or a feature? Aug 31 22:42:31 mickey|mdd: it just means that I have to flash an image I've built myself (rather than a snapshot) and remove all the buildhost feeds before using my own feed Aug 31 22:42:37 would anyone happen to know if the patch to switch from usb device to usb host actually works? Aug 31 22:42:53 Which patch? Aug 31 22:43:13 My one? That was a 'seems reasonable' patch - that hasn't actually been compiled. Aug 31 22:43:20 how well would the openmoko suite run on bare i386 iron? Aug 31 22:43:22 * SpeedEvil doesn't yet have a buildchain up. Aug 31 22:43:28 fine. Aug 31 22:43:29 it's in subversion, under branches/source/target/kernel/2.6.22/ or something Aug 31 22:43:37 though i386 may be too small Aug 31 22:43:48 orpheus: that one is probably not quite there yet Aug 31 22:43:55 ahh Aug 31 22:44:15 were you able to tell if those lines can actually act as a usb host? Aug 31 22:44:16 hang on Aug 31 22:44:22 yes, they can. Aug 31 22:44:32 there are two usb host controllers on the CPU Aug 31 22:44:41 One of which can be switched to a USB device Aug 31 22:45:07 ah, great, that's much better than having to pull off the wires from thenbluetooth module to get USB Aug 31 22:45:20 you can't unplug the bluetooth module Aug 31 22:45:30 it's wired to under the LCD, which is glued down. Aug 31 22:45:34 it's a cut-wire job. Aug 31 22:45:37 you can if you try hard enough... Aug 31 22:45:37 which is annoying. Aug 31 22:45:43 yeah Aug 31 22:45:57 that's really good to hear tho Aug 31 22:46:24 is there a way to force the power bits into fast-charge mode? Aug 31 22:46:44 Not with the current kernel. Aug 31 22:46:49 the hardware can do it. Aug 31 22:46:54 since it'll most likely revert to slow-charge mode if it's acting as a usb device Aug 31 22:46:56 oh well Aug 31 22:47:21 It should actually stay as it was, if you don't unplug the source of 5V Aug 31 22:48:11 mickey|mdd: is buildhost using openmoko-feed.bb yet? Aug 31 22:48:14 hurmm..... it's a pity that i can't do that with my current wierd 3-headed cable, but that's also good to know Aug 31 22:48:37 BTW, http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/unstable/ has now been rebuilt since the gcc fiasco Aug 31 22:49:07 and it has everything listed in packages/meta/openmoko-feed.bb built Aug 31 22:50:09 * rwhitby tried out the engineering mode GSM AT commands in http://www.enfora.com/media/EDG0108TN001_-_Enabler_II-E_Engineering_Mode_Manual.pdf last night - just about all of them work as specificed on the neo Aug 31 22:50:52 really? Aug 31 22:50:52 cool Aug 31 22:50:54 rwhitby: cool Aug 31 22:51:20 rwhitby: will do tomorrow Aug 31 22:51:31 * cesarb wonders if they can be useful for more precise gps-less location Aug 31 22:51:39 * mjr finds it amusing that mickey goes "really? cool" when somebody else says something the Neo hw does Aug 31 22:52:51 cesarb: you get receive field strength readings for cells in the active set Aug 31 22:53:22 i'm glad i don't know much about the cell system Aug 31 22:53:36 more than field strength Aug 31 22:53:40 you get delays Aug 31 22:54:06 Or at least seem to. Aug 31 22:59:08 orpheus: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-August/000200.html - was the post I made to the ML about the usb-host-mode patch Aug 31 23:00:45 and the followon oops post Aug 31 23:00:56 hm, svn.openmoko.org seems kinda flakey right now Aug 31 23:04:00 awww, now the terminal fonts is way too big Aug 31 23:04:19 how do I change the font size again? it was somewhere, but I can not find it :-( Aug 31 23:04:36 Bring the neo closer, or further away. Aug 31 23:04:48 glasses? Aug 31 23:05:02 Also see: Meatloaf - Objects in the rearview mirror may appear closer than they are. Aug 31 23:06:28 <_diego__> how can i compile a recipe with debug option? Aug 31 23:06:50 hm.. why does it build libpcap0.9.3 and 0.9.6 ? Aug 31 23:07:40 whats ther terminal app called again? mxrvt? Aug 31 23:07:45 mrvxt? Aug 31 23:08:00 the old one mrxvt Aug 31 23:08:26 gtkterm2? Aug 31 23:08:41 * SpeedEvil has 2007.1 installed still. Aug 31 23:10:02 openmoko-terminal is the new one Aug 31 23:10:06 does not work Aug 31 23:10:12 piece a crap Aug 31 23:12:23 does totally not work Aug 31 23:12:45 starts with a error message and you can not even in horizontal mode a command in Aug 31 23:12:49 openmoko-terminal2 it is btw. Aug 31 23:12:53 anyways, g'night Aug 31 23:15:09 mickey|zzZZzz: good night Aug 31 23:15:35 oh the pain, openmoko-terminal2 does not work and I can not start mrxvt from the gui Aug 31 23:16:29 hhf423, use ssh & DISPLAY=:0 mrxvt ;) Aug 31 23:16:37 yes Aug 31 23:16:50 but that does not work when I go out :-) Aug 31 23:17:13 ah, I'll have mrxvt start as default out of matchbox/session Aug 31 23:17:18 hhf423, symlink openmoko-terminal2 to mrxvt Aug 31 23:17:32 mdt: ah, thats a good idea Aug 31 23:19:09 hahaha Aug 31 23:19:17 hhf423: x over GPRS. Aug 31 23:19:32 * SpeedEvil should have tried that when he had free GPRS. Aug 31 23:19:39 I can PAN to my UMTS phone and then do ipkg update from the neo via UMTS Aug 31 23:20:08 :D :D Aug 31 23:20:24 I've downloaded new rootfs images over GPRS. Aug 31 23:20:48 this is a really good idea for the presentation i have to do with the neo... :D Aug 31 23:21:08 There are also _trivial_ scripts. Aug 31 23:21:10 hrhrhr Aug 31 23:21:11 hhf423, this should be really fast then... Aug 31 23:21:39 hmm, looks like the bt connection drops really fast tho Aug 31 23:22:08 Like tail -f /tmp/nmea |grep GPGGA|ssh server 'cat >/tmp/nmea' Aug 31 23:22:09 bt sucks... we had lots of trouble with that in a project. Aug 31 23:22:21 to share the GPS to a desktop over GPRS Aug 31 23:25:06 and does anyone know what the new keyboard is called? Aug 31 23:28:09 hmm... mokomakefile stopped working this mornin Aug 31 23:28:14 g Aug 31 23:28:20 it says it can't compile webkit Aug 31 23:28:51 and I can't find any related bug in bugzilla Aug 31 23:29:17 now... am I doing something wrong / stupid, or should I be filing a bug ? Aug 31 23:37:44 stateofthephone? I've been neck deep in work the past week, curious if anything interesting is happening in software-land Aug 31 23:38:07 just now flashing the latest images to it... Aug 31 23:39:57 jadams: the dialer mostly works now Aug 31 23:40:06 jadams: and mplayer is also available Aug 31 23:40:16 so you can watch movies Aug 31 23:40:18 polz: but mplayer plays at 4fps or so? Aug 31 23:40:35 depends on the sort of movies you want to watch Aug 31 23:40:43 furry porn Aug 31 23:40:49 320x240 mpegs play smoothly Aug 31 23:41:32 is mplayer in the rootfs or do I need to ipkg install it? Aug 31 23:41:38 ipkg Aug 31 23:41:46 jadams: see my comments from just now in P1 software testing Aug 31 23:41:48 and are there any othere decent ipkg repos than ScaredyCat's, or is that still the goto guy? Aug 31 23:41:52 hhf423: k Aug 31 23:42:23 jadams: scaredycat repository still the one to go Aug 31 23:42:55 hhf423: so BT is now 'sorta' Aug 31 23:43:15 I was about to flash my nokia 770 (something awful happened to it, UI's all b0rked) Aug 31 23:43:27 so I could play with wifi on the 770, paired over the bt to the neo Aug 31 23:43:27 oh, and the "noslices" option makes quite a difference for mplayer Aug 31 23:43:32 jadams: is scaredycat's repo the nslu2 one? Aug 31 23:43:49 I pass the question to hhf423 Aug 31 23:44:20 oh, wow, USB connections now work to windows? cool stuff Aug 31 23:44:38 can someone tell me if /etc/alsa really disapeared or if i accidenatlly removed it with a package? to which package does it belong? Aug 31 23:44:59 did they get rid of alsa for pulseaudio? Aug 31 23:45:08 cesarb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories Aug 31 23:45:23 or are those two things even competitors...? Aug 31 23:46:06 mdt: I think there are still alsa profiles in /etc, but the subdir is gone, no? Aug 31 23:46:32 jadams: alsa is the kernel drivers Aug 31 23:46:40 jadams: pulseaudio just a puny daemon Aug 31 23:46:40 hhf423, yes, here it's gone but i removed some packages... are those files somewhere else? Aug 31 23:47:16 mdt: I think the stuff from /etc/alsa is now in /etc Aug 31 23:47:54 hhf423, oups, that's right... hm, ugly. Aug 31 23:49:22 yeah Aug 31 23:52:00 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Bootloader]] Aug 31 23:52:03 ok, off to sleep Aug 31 23:52:14 * hhf423 waves good night Sep 01 00:16:09 anyone gotten : Sep 01 00:16:14 Cannot set alternate interface: could not set alt intf 0/253: Invalid argument Sep 01 00:16:27 when attempting to flash Sep 01 00:16:57 ? Sep 01 00:17:37 nope Sep 01 00:25:53 * * OM Bug 782 has been created by  Sep 01 00:25:54 * * linux-gta01-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2831_0-do_prepatch Sep 01 00:25:55 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=782 Sep 01 00:41:31 * cesarb really gets surprised at some packaged which bitbake compiles Sep 01 00:41:44 pciutils? acpid? hdparm??? Sep 01 00:41:53 s/packaged/packages/ Sep 01 00:42:06 no wonder it takes ages to compile... Sep 01 00:45:25 Are there usb enclosures that support hdparm? Sep 01 00:45:51 technil: are you running as root? Sep 01 00:45:56 I suppose it's not completely insane to think that a phone might have a PCI bus. Sep 01 00:46:01 Only mostly. Sep 01 00:47:34 SpeedEvil: it's not insane to compile these for the neo. Sep 01 00:47:45 SpeedEvil: it's insane to compile these BY DEFAULT for the neo Sep 01 00:48:24 True. Sep 01 00:48:39 SpeedEvil: after all, there are always people insane enough to try to do absurd things like PCI-over-ethernet Sep 01 00:48:43 acpid actually makes sense. Sep 01 00:48:48 Perhaps. Sep 01 00:49:03 I haven't seen PCI over ethernet. Sep 01 00:49:05 SpeedEvil: it would make sense if the neo had acpi... apmd makes more sense, since it has fake apm IIRC... Sep 01 00:49:09 Only ethernet over PCI. Sep 01 00:49:14 At the moment. Sep 01 00:49:26 SpeedEvil: PCI over etherenet doesn't exist AFAIK, but never doubt crazy people... Sep 01 00:49:33 s/etherenet/ethernet/ Sep 01 00:49:33 cesarb meant: SpeedEvil: PCI over ethernet doesn't exist AFAIK, but never doubt crazy people... Sep 01 00:51:57 hm, my sourceforge password has expired... Sep 01 00:52:18 It's expired too fast, I had that password for only about 8 years! Sep 01 00:55:27 hehe Sep 01 00:58:32 * cesarb seems to have received some crazy "sourceforge marketplace" spam, and wanted to check if there was some forgotten checkbox which got autochecked somewhere in sf's configuration maze Sep 01 00:59:41 The email does look very suspicious... tracking image with id, tracking id on all the links (even the unsubscribe one!), and "in response to your interest in the SourceForge.net Marketplace" sounds bogus Sep 01 00:59:59 I seem to remember getting something from SF recently Sep 01 01:00:10 To add to that, it's been _years_ since I last logged to sourceforge, to change to my permanent email address... there's no way I checked any new checkbox Sep 01 01:01:01 But, annoyingly, the received lines seem legit Sep 01 01:02:14 And, even more annoyingly, "marketplace.sourceforge.net" has 0 ghits Sep 01 01:03:52 marketplace.sourceforge.net does not seem to exist... odder and odder Sep 01 01:08:42 should make update with the mokomakefile be failing? Sep 01 01:08:57 Stuck at mtn: doing anonymous pull; use -kKEYNAME if you need authenticationmtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.or Sep 01 01:13:27 satadru: that usually indicates that the openembedded monotone server is either overloaded or down Sep 01 01:13:39 ah Sep 01 01:13:53 ok... I figured that just pinging it wouldn't tell me anything Sep 01 01:13:58 ok. Thanks Sep 01 01:14:15 you can run those commands manually, using monotone.nslu2-linux.org instead, if you like. Sep 01 01:14:31 or just wait and someone will fix it. Sep 01 01:14:50 (though you might need to wait until Europe wakes up) Sep 01 01:15:39 * SpeedEvil is awake. Sep 01 01:15:43 (though can't help) Sep 01 01:15:47 * SpeedEvil should sleep. Sep 01 01:30:02 * rwhitby ipkg upgrades to latest packages from the feeds at http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/unstable/ by removing all other feeds from /etc/ipkg/ Sep 01 01:32:05 die die! Sep 01 01:32:06 :) Sep 01 01:46:13 damn raster went on another killing spree Sep 01 01:46:31 * BryceLeo cleans up the mess Sep 01 01:47:22 fuck i hate xml Sep 01 01:47:46 nothing like dealing with xml to make me want to main and slaughter Sep 01 01:47:59 maim? Sep 01 01:48:29 lol, xml can be a pain in the butt Sep 01 01:48:30 raster: hey, XML is so good, even microsoft is moving their office formats to it! ;-) Sep 01 01:48:51 isn't that just a big downer to a good bit of tech Sep 01 01:49:04 technil: yeah. maim. i code to much. main is a built-in finger response Sep 01 01:49:04 :) Sep 01 01:49:13 raster: lol Sep 01 01:49:42 u have to escape too much crap in xml Sep 01 01:49:54 and then it's not entirely clear which escapes u use where Sep 01 01:49:57 cdata is limited Sep 01 01:49:58 etc. Sep 01 01:50:31 escaping is a bit of a pain Sep 01 01:50:56 a little bit of escaping is easy Sep 01 01:50:57 eg Sep 01 01:51:12 Just make it all hex. Sep 01 01:51:13 "hello \"world\" blah blah" Sep 01 01:51:15 is fine Sep 01 01:51:17 Problem solved. Sep 01 01:51:19 mickey|zzZZzz: Thanks much for adding pySerial to the feed. Sep 01 01:51:24 Who needs readability. Sep 01 01:51:27 SpeedEvil: it's already better than that Sep 01 01:51:29 its binary Sep 01 01:51:54 raster: xml was never meant to be hand-edited Sep 01 01:52:15 ok Sep 01 01:52:18 background Sep 01 01:52:22 alreayd got all my data and config Sep 01 01:52:23 raster: \" only for attributes. CDATA is okay with quotes, but you should use entitites IIRC anyway and no backslash-escapes... Sep 01 01:52:24 raster: it's supposed to be a format one tool generates and another tool eats Sep 01 01:52:24 nice and compact Sep 01 01:52:28 in binary blobs Sep 01 01:52:28 #*mumble* Sep 01 01:52:32 with nice api's to access it Sep 01 01:52:37 raster: because " makes it so much more readable... Sep 01 01:52:38 UBOOT_UPSTREAM_REV = "3e66c078003607a7d1d214c15a5f262bc1b4032f" Sep 01 01:52:40 (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Chicago]] [[SettingsGUI]] Sep 01 01:52:40 its very coder-friendlt Sep 01 01:52:48 friendly Sep 01 01:52:56 you basically pass a pointer to a data struct Sep 01 01:53:05 coder friendly? ROFL! Sep 01 01:53:09 it gets written to disk in a platform-independant way in a compact binary bloc Sep 01 01:53:11 raster: binary formats are a pain when you have to use things like init=/bin/sh (or, even worse, break=), and don't have everything mounted Sep 01 01:53:17 getNextChild() et all suck royally Sep 01 01:53:18 u can point the api to the blob and get back your data struct Sep 01 01:53:24 linked lists, hash tables, etc. Sep 01 01:53:26 all nice Sep 01 01:53:42 anyway Sep 01 01:53:55 there are a bunch of people whoi seem to think they must have their config files as text Sep 01 01:54:12 and want to reconfigure their wm/gui by editing text files Sep 01 01:54:22 i'm a bit tired of hearing the moans Sep 01 01:54:41 (despite any of their complaints are just issues with the gui config tools not being complete or havign the feature they want) Sep 01 01:54:46 Binary blobs can be really evil in 20 years time. Sep 01 01:54:48 raster: config files as text, automagically cached to binary files, is the best of both worlds... fast but easy to fix when everything breaks (just nuke the cache and fix the text config) Sep 01 01:54:50 so i'm writign a blob -> ascii dumper Sep 01 01:54:53 and thern ascii -> blob Sep 01 01:55:02 everyone of course moans that any such ascii must be xml Sep 01 01:55:06 because then its good Sep 01 01:55:11 and can be edited using tools Sep 01 01:55:25 (for gods sake - thats what is already provided for editign the blob directly!) Sep 01 01:55:43 raster: there are way better formats than xml... for instance the format used for /var/lib/dpkg/available is a good one Sep 01 01:55:58 cesarb: i know Sep 01 01:56:05 its just the xml weenies have started screaming Sep 01 01:56:17 and all it does is cause me pain in having to write out valid xml then have to parse it all again Sep 01 01:56:25 including all the crud and mess they can make of it Sep 01 01:56:27 interestingly Sep 01 01:56:31 raster: have them write a "your config->xml/xml->your config" mangler ;-) Sep 01 01:56:34 the config file in binary blob is 28kb Sep 01 01:56:38 raster: since it's all turing machines in the end Sep 01 01:56:38 the xml version is 1.4m Sep 01 01:56:45 raster: wow Sep 01 01:56:48 and 24,000 lines long Sep 01 01:56:57 raster: how big is the xml gzipped? Sep 01 01:57:05 i challenge the "i must edit my config in text" crowd to deal with that Sep 01 01:57:13 raster: since, as every xml weenie should tell you, xml is meant to be gzipped Sep 01 01:57:13 cesarb: 32kb Sep 01 01:57:29 still bigger Sep 01 01:57:33 but thats not the issue Sep 01 01:57:33 raster: so, the entropy is about the same, it's just that xml is absurdly verbose Sep 01 01:57:37 i'm not chanign my configs to xml Sep 01 01:57:59 i'm just writign an "export to ascii" and "import from ascii" routine Sep 01 01:58:02 all the data is ther in the blob Sep 01 01:58:11 the code to handle it is open and documented Sep 01 01:58:22 so its no worse than a png or jpeg in terms of being binary Sep 01 01:58:26 its just very programmer friendly Sep 01 01:58:40 * cesarb used to use enlightenment back when it was gnome's default WM... never managed to understand the confusing amount of binary config files mixed with cache files, and which could be safely nuked (but then never really tried to find the docs) Sep 01 01:58:57 * cesarb then switched to pure enlightenment when gnome changed its default WM Sep 01 01:59:11 ...and years later decided to switch completely to KDE Sep 01 01:59:20 ixs: nb - xml is not the coder friendly thing - my stuff is :) i designed it for me - a mucho-lazy coder, to do all the nasty work for me and just hand me a data strcuture i can use directly Sep 01 01:59:24 raster: do you know the 'sng' tool? Sep 01 01:59:45 sng? Sep 01 02:00:05 raster: ahh kay. misunderstood you there. I had to do a bit of xml mangling lately for a project... Ughhhh! Sep 01 02:00:07 raster: apt-get install sng Sep 01 02:00:13 ixs: i know Sep 01 02:00:16 xml is a PITA Sep 01 02:00:31 raster: it's a cool utility which converts a png file to a text representation, which can roundtrip back to png Sep 01 02:00:38 oooh Sep 01 02:00:41 pfft Sep 01 02:00:45 why would i need that? Sep 01 02:00:50 raster: but the project was completely buzzword compliant. xml, sax, dom, axis2, wsdl, xpath, yaddayaddayadda Sep 01 02:00:51 raster: very useful when you want to peek at a png, or hack it a bit Sep 01 02:00:54 edit an image in a text editor? Sep 01 02:00:55 hahahaha Sep 01 02:01:04 ixs: my sympathies Sep 01 02:01:18 cesarb: generally gimp does a good job of that :) Sep 01 02:01:20 ohhh yeah. I forgot java... Sep 01 02:01:22 but thanks. :D Sep 01 02:01:31 or one of a dozen quick and dirty image displayers Sep 01 02:01:33 i love academic work... Sep 01 02:01:36 raster: gimp will not let you edit every chunk directly Sep 01 02:01:42 ixs: my deepest sympathies Sep 01 02:01:48 :-> Sep 01 02:01:55 raster: some specialized command-line utils might Sep 01 02:01:55 cesarb: all i care about are mah piksholz! Sep 01 02:02:09 hell Sep 01 02:02:15 png's are just src formats fo rme Sep 01 02:02:21 raster: I've already used it to debug transparency issues on some png files on wikipedia... Sep 01 02:02:22 the get re-compiled into .edj's for use Sep 01 02:02:23 :) Sep 01 02:02:26 'twas fun though. After a horrible week I actually had the feeling of somewhat understanding java... but luckily I was nearly finished then. Sep 01 02:02:52 pnmtools Sep 01 02:03:02 raster: anyway, didn't you say you were making a blob->text/text->blob converter, to silence the everything-must-be-text crowd? you could take a look at sng for inspiration Sep 01 02:03:20 any graphics format to any other., Sep 01 02:03:27 including text Sep 01 02:03:44 cesarb: yes. Sep 01 02:04:06 i already have what i want Sep 01 02:04:16 i just got th exml stick thrown at me Sep 01 02:04:20 "because it can be validated" Sep 01 02:04:26 "you can use xml editign tools" Sep 01 02:04:28 yadda yadda Sep 01 02:04:32 come onm people Sep 01 02:04:37 thats what the gui config dialogs ARE Sep 01 02:04:38 raster: ouch, "because it can be validated" is a completely bogus argument :P Sep 01 02:04:39 tyhey are TOOLS Sep 01 02:04:44 and they dont need to work on the xml goop Sep 01 02:04:51 cesarb: yup Sep 01 02:05:02 the config loader validates as it parse Sep 01 02:05:07 parses the binary Sep 01 02:05:09 raster: and pure text formats are way better than overdone xml, since they can be edited easily with vim Sep 01 02:05:09 if its not happy Sep 01 02:05:22 it winds back its decoding and hands u a NULL pointer Sep 01 02:05:23 simple Sep 01 02:05:24 * mwester shakes his head about people who think that gui editing tools are sufficient; those people have never worked to recover/repair damaged applications, servers, and systems... Sep 01 02:05:28 who cares Sep 01 02:05:30 raster: do you have a standalone validator utility, like samba's testparm? Sep 01 02:05:30 if its not happy Sep 01 02:05:33 somethnig fucked with it Sep 01 02:05:44 raster: sounds like a typical "if all you've got is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" situation to me Sep 01 02:05:46 its not meant to be fucked with outside the api to load/save it Sep 01 02:05:58 raster: two words: bit flip Sep 01 02:06:13 FEC! Sep 01 02:06:24 mwester: these are not systemc configs Sep 01 02:06:25 SpeedEvil: most people don't even have ECC memory Sep 01 02:06:37 cesarb: well, bitflipp Sep 01 02:06:37 also i am going to add in revision history ability Sep 01 02:06:46 ing is a good reason for text files Sep 01 02:06:47 so if the current revision is screwed - drop back to the past one Sep 01 02:06:54 you can fix them easier then binary blobs Sep 01 02:07:00 and you can roll back changes Sep 01 02:07:11 all nicely handled for u Sep 01 02:07:16 no need to fix Sep 01 02:07:17 lol we've got a server at school with one ecc and one non ecc.... they just realizied that means no ecc Sep 01 02:07:18 why do u have to fix? Sep 01 02:07:20 not half ecc... Sep 01 02:07:23 *facepalm* Sep 01 02:07:52 cesarb: its 2 api calls to validate Sep 01 02:07:54 :) Sep 01 02:08:10 as for bit flipos Sep 01 02:08:14 if a bit just decides to flip Sep 01 02:08:20 u have hw issues Sep 01 02:08:26 who knwos what else is mangled Sep 01 02:08:31 because I wanna keep my config and just flip the one char back instead of doing a whole rollback? Sep 01 02:08:49 raster: look at the uncorrected error rate on your hard drive. Sep 01 02:08:49 and the bit can flip again Sep 01 02:08:54 u are masking the real problem Sep 01 02:08:57 raster: well, let's say you have a customized GUI configuration which took weeks to perfect... it's midnight, and as you hear thunder, you lose power... unfortunately, you don't have a UPS, and your filesystem is XFS (known for happily filling files with zeroes)... Sep 01 02:09:00 It'll be somewhere around 1 in 10^13 IIRC Sep 01 02:09:18 raster: basicially no. bitflippers are a reality. And they do happen without flakey hardware as well. Sep 01 02:09:21 That is a large number, but not when you consider the number of computers. Sep 01 02:09:26 cesarb: no problem. configs are written atomically Sep 01 02:09:26 openmoko has migrated its own oe to oe main stream? Sep 01 02:09:30 its either all there or not Sep 01 02:09:47 raster: take a 250GB drive, copy the data to another and then do a md5sum over it. chances are, you'll get different results. Sep 01 02:09:53 raster: I said it's xfs, so your "atomically" doesn't mean much ;-) Sep 01 02:10:10 not much i can do about crap fs's Sep 01 02:10:10 :) Sep 01 02:10:27 the problem here is Sep 01 02:10:36 you now require a level of nerdy expertise to fix things Sep 01 02:10:39 * cesarb renames the channel #offtopic Sep 01 02:10:40 that imho shouldnt be required Sep 01 02:10:43 a system should fix itself Sep 01 02:10:48 without needing u to drop to vi Sep 01 02:10:52 in single user mode Sep 01 02:11:08 you average consumer usign an OM phone Sep 01 02:11:16 doesnt want to have to figure out vi Sep 01 02:11:20 while at the airport Sep 01 02:11:26 on a touchscreen in text mode Sep 01 02:11:30 (impossible anyway) Sep 01 02:11:35 just to get their ui back Sep 01 02:11:49 you should have a config system that works without that Sep 01 02:12:01 a system shouldn't become broken enough that you have to resort to vi Sep 01 02:12:07 raster: no problem as long as the user only changes stuff via the gui it should be salvageable... Sep 01 02:12:07 text editing is just a nerd excuse for not makign your config system handle mistakes Sep 01 02:12:08 * cesarb ponders: in-kernel touch-screen keyboard (and in uboot too) for the frambuffer text mode Sep 01 02:12:10 at least I hope. Sep 01 02:12:12 * cesarb shudders at the thought Sep 01 02:12:15 madewokherd`: exactly Sep 01 02:12:20 and for the worst case, I absolutely want a backup tool on the moko Sep 01 02:12:21 madewokherd`: but thats is the point people are making Sep 01 02:12:41 ixs: thats my aim. i'm trying to put the big "hands off" sign on config files Sep 01 02:12:43 raster: I think your mixing up desktop usage and phone usage. Sep 01 02:12:45 dont sctrew with them with vi Sep 01 02:12:53 so the only things that can destroy them really are: Sep 01 02:12:57 1. hw errors Sep 01 02:12:59 2. os errors Sep 01 02:13:23 3. original, software errors in the lib encoding/decodign the cfgs Sep 01 02:13:27 raster: I absolutely want to be able to fiddle with them on my development phone. I do not wanna have to touch them on my phone-phone though. Sep 01 02:13:37 4. enemy action. Sep 01 02:13:40 fair enough Sep 01 02:13:50 my aim is going directly for the phone-phone Sep 01 02:14:16 i need to put in versioning and roll-back Sep 01 02:14:32 still Sep 01 02:14:36 but i think that should cover it Sep 01 02:14:37 raster: great for you, but don't. The big plus for the moko is the developer friendlyness. do not take it away by having a binary blog and api cals everywhere. Sep 01 02:14:47 if that doesnt work - there's still coded-in defaults Sep 01 02:15:02 ixs: isn't that why he is creating the blob->text/text->blob tools? Sep 01 02:15:02 ixs: too late Sep 01 02:15:08 been down that road for years Sep 01 02:15:29 i'm putting int the deb-blob and blob for the FEW who insist they have to be able to screw with the data in text editors Sep 01 02:15:57 almost every time someone says they must used text config editing its a sign of a missing feature Sep 01 02:16:08 in fact to date - every insance has been Sep 01 02:16:10 eiuther that Sep 01 02:16:18 or just a bug in code that is not complete Sep 01 02:17:21 for now i just want to dump/un-dump in a text format that taxes as little code to output and parse as possible Sep 01 02:17:28 raster: I can see one particular interesting case of text config editing: generating the config via a script, instead of via a GUI dialog (not a problem if your config API can work in a byte-order independent way without any GUI running) Sep 01 02:18:20 cesarb: the api is C. you NEED data strcutures to be able to write or read from the api Sep 01 02:18:22 raster: if you didn't decide yet on a text format, take a look at sng as I said... it's not hard to parse Sep 01 02:18:29 but when encoded the blob is endian-agnostic Sep 01 02:18:54 all data is presented to the program in the systems native word alignment, padding and endinaness Sep 01 02:19:04 raster: does the config api work without X running? Sep 01 02:20:06 sng is very similar to .edc Sep 01 02:20:09 very c-struct like Sep 01 02:20:10 {}'s Sep 01 02:20:16 chunk headers Sep 01 02:20:25 and yes Sep 01 02:20:30 the config api is a singl tiny library Sep 01 02:20:32 no x needed Sep 01 02:20:40 config files are like zip files Sep 01 02:20:43 with multiepl sections Sep 01 02:20:50 u can random-access read and/or write Sep 01 02:21:01 it will handle compressing each sectin for you if u ask Sep 01 02:21:15 and data structs are dumped to the sections Sep 01 02:21:36 encoded in a nested chunck-header+payload-size+payload style format Sep 01 02:23:46 how do I know which is L and which ir R on neo's headphone? Sep 01 02:26:14 cesarb: audacity out two diff tones to each channel Sep 01 02:26:19 then play it on the phone Sep 01 02:26:40 BryceLeo: that's a lame way to do it... no markings on the headphone itself? Sep 01 02:26:57 * cesarb probably will have to find a better headphone, I don't like in-canal things Sep 01 02:27:59 hm, does the button on the headset generate an input event somewhere? Sep 01 02:28:11 I imagine they were shipped as 'good enough' headphones to do the job. Most people will buy or use their own preference. Sep 01 02:28:55 hads: like the just-barely-long-enough USB cables? Sep 01 02:29:01 developers dont need ears Sep 01 02:29:03 :) Sep 01 02:29:13 :) Sep 01 02:29:43 cesarb: My box is 30cm away from my desk so doesn't matter to me :) Sep 01 02:31:02 hads: my box is on the floor, to the right side of the desk (in fact, to the right of the mini-tower-sized space within the desk). The keyboard tray/monitor is on the _left_ side of the desk Sep 01 02:31:04 any plans of an AC charger when the GTA02 ships? it'd be easier when you're on-the-go :) Sep 01 02:31:27 hads: the keyboard cable would barely make it, if I didn't plug my keyboard and mouse into my monitor Sep 01 02:31:46 cesarb: Rearrange your desk ;) Sep 01 02:32:17 hads: not easy, to the left of it is my brother's computer ;-) Sep 01 02:32:37 * cesarb has way too many stuff around him Sep 01 02:32:48 xaid: errr the neo ships with one Sep 01 02:32:52 its ac->usb Sep 01 02:32:58 then u usb->neo Sep 01 02:33:02 from the charger Sep 01 02:33:16 raster: uhh no. Sep 01 02:33:22 raster: there's no charger with the neo Sep 01 02:33:26 hmmm Sep 01 02:33:27 really? Sep 01 02:33:30 ixs: raster has a P0 IIRC Sep 01 02:33:38 hmm Sep 01 02:33:39 yeah Sep 01 02:33:41 raster: it was planned, but they couldn't source one for p1 Sep 01 02:33:46 maybe i just have a different model Sep 01 02:33:53 fair enough Sep 01 02:33:54 sorry bout that Sep 01 02:33:58 :( Sep 01 02:34:04 hads: I ended up using my palm's rusty old USB cable, which is quite long Sep 01 02:34:06 raster: problem was that the chargers they found did not do the power negotiation correctly or so Sep 01 02:34:13 yeah Sep 01 02:34:15 i noticed Sep 01 02:34:21 i thoguht it was the neo problem Sep 01 02:34:28 mine takes an eternity to charge over usb Sep 01 02:34:42 and it loses power like a seive loses water Sep 01 02:34:47 heh Sep 01 02:34:53 how about the iPod's AC charger? anyone tried that? i wonder if its Neo-friendly Sep 01 02:34:55 mhm. there's a workaround, you can just switch the uboot loader to force 500mA charging mode, but that might fry your computer if it does not deliver. Sep 01 02:35:01 mind u - i love the idea of usb only charging Sep 01 02:35:11 no more billions of ac adaptors to lugi lug a laptop anyway Sep 01 02:35:15 raster: oh, btw, do you know the latest trick to reduce the neo's battery usage? Sep 01 02:35:20 things mayaswell recycle its power adaptor Sep 01 02:35:36 cesarb: nup - but i know that when idle it'll get a few hrs before going splat Sep 01 02:35:48 if 2007.02 ever compiles... Sep 01 02:35:51 i might play a bit Sep 01 02:36:04 ok Sep 01 02:36:07 got my text format: Sep 01 02:36:09 group "blah" struct { Sep 01 02:36:09 value "character" char: 55; Sep 01 02:36:09 value "sixteen" short: 30583; Sep 01 02:36:10 ... Sep 01 02:36:19 etc. Sep 01 02:36:22 i like Sep 01 02:36:24 simple Sep 01 02:36:34 i only need to escape strings in quotes Sep 01 02:36:37 and only do it simply Sep 01 02:36:39 raster: the trick is to change the mixer "Amp Mode" to Off Sep 01 02:36:45 hmm Sep 01 02:36:46 really Sep 01 02:37:01 how long do u get standby then? Sep 01 02:37:03 raster: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Battery_charger_related Sep 01 02:37:35 ixs: i know. i have been intimately familiar with that info Sep 01 02:37:40 raster: since the amp connected directly to the battery and the kernel doesn't currently turn it off when powering down, if you don't set "Amp Mode" to Off (and turn off the GSM modem) before powering off your phone, it'll drain your battery Sep 01 02:37:58 turning off Sep 01 02:38:05 or just going into sleep/low power? Sep 01 02:38:10 (ie when screensaver kicks in etc.) Sep 01 02:38:14 !ombug 781 Sep 01 02:38:15 * * Bug 781, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown Sep 01 02:38:16 * * cesarb(AT)cesarb.net: LM4857 should be turned off on a reboot notifier Sep 01 02:38:17 * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=781 Sep 01 02:38:28 aaah Sep 01 02:38:31 actually TUNRING it off Sep 01 02:38:33 i noticed that too Sep 01 02:38:37 power down neo Sep 01 02:38:41 battery drains Sep 01 02:38:46 that is what u are talking about Sep 01 02:39:00 i was also worried abotu "standby" time Sep 01 02:39:00 yeah sucks. killed some batteries too Sep 01 02:39:13 ie neo is alive Sep 01 02:39:15 but screen blank Sep 01 02:39:20 it should go into low poer mode Sep 01 02:39:20 raster: SpeedEvil made some measurements, and if you set "Amp Mode" to Off and turn off the modem (AT%POFF IIRC), it will use so little power he couldn't even measure it Sep 01 02:39:32 power down everything it can and still stay on the netowork Sep 01 02:39:47 cesarb: when in standby - or off? Sep 01 02:39:52 raster: off Sep 01 02:40:00 so it should be Sep 01 02:40:00 :) Sep 01 02:40:05 it should use 0 Sep 01 02:40:10 its off damnit! Sep 01 02:40:11 :) Sep 01 02:40:38 raster: actually, there's always a very small amount of leakage current, but his testing rig can't get below a few hundred uA Sep 01 02:40:47 raster: should be enough for several days Sep 01 02:41:06 thats off enough for me Sep 01 02:41:15 hmm Sep 01 02:41:17 should be mroe than that Sep 01 02:41:24 u should manage sevefral days on standby Sep 01 02:41:25 raster: as to the power management (standby, etc), SpeedEvil is also looking into it... (he's playing with several processor voltages/speeds and seeing what each one consumes, for instance) Sep 01 02:41:30 ie cpu ram gsm et.c powered up Sep 01 02:41:35 but in low poer mode Sep 01 02:41:52 i knoiwmy n800 pulls a few days at least Sep 01 02:42:12 (now i reflashed it...) Sep 01 02:43:25 mhm, something else: anyone ever tried gpephone on the moko? somehow I like it much more than the openmoko stuff. Openmoko is more and organizer less a phone and gpephone reminds me very much of my siemens s65... Sep 01 02:43:35 and I hate organizers. :D Sep 01 02:46:04 things will improve over time Sep 01 02:49:52 cesarb: I think it's @POFF **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 01 02:59:56 2007